From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 01:16:28 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 22:16:28 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: References: <131412469.3123370.1440977900546.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007b01d0e475$5c4d22d0$14e76870$@telus.net> This looks really interesting, Hank, Alan. They look very similar to shallow water microbialites in Pavilion Lake that I took photos of five years ago. Do you have a close-up photo of this stuff? What depth was this video taken? It is worth investigating further. The so called "fresh water coral" in Pavilion Lake is cyano-bacteria microbialites. Very common in fossil form but ridiculously rare in living form. So far found living only in Pavilion Lake and Kelly Lake in BC, and in a high mountain lake in Chile. That's really about it. I will send the video link to Donnie Reid at Nuytco, who is the project manager for the ongoing NASA Pavilion Lake Research Project (PLRP). PLRP was a significant joint NASA and CSA space analogue project investigating these ancient life forms that may be similar to life, or fossil life, located on Mars. For several years Nuytco had the DW2000's in Pavilion and trained various American and Canadian astronauts and astrobiologists in space analogue research. NASA had their Mobile Mission Control Center there as well. I dropped in on the 2010 , 2011, and 2014 events in my official capacity as PLRP groupie (actually, in 2010 I visited as the project manager for the BC Institute of Technology Underwater Observatory project). PLRP is now a much scaled down NASA funded project, mostly out of NASA Ames Research Center with researchers from several American and Canadian universities attending. Of course, Nuytco now provides DW2000's for NASA's NEEMO missions at the Aquarius manned undersea habitat off Key Largo. Check out the web site www.pavilionlake.com . Pavilion Lake is a very clear lake, but not because the microbialites are filter feeders. The microbiologists and limnologists are still trying to figure these creatures out. Take note that Pavilion Lake has very restrictive diving regulations. There are only two sites where scuba diving is allowed. Subs are not specifically mentioned in the restrictions, but NASA and CSA get special permits from the feds and province to operate outside of those designated areas for sub-surface operations (divers, ROV's, and submersibles). Surprisingly, gasoline powered vessels are still allowed on the lake. We checked out the launch ramp last summer and you should be able to launch your sub from your current trailer without unhooking. But bring the tow straps just in case. Apart from the microbialites growing on anything solid (rocks, logs, sticks, pop cans), the bottom is soft. 2010 anecdote: DW2000's are actually quite noisy underwater. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: August-30-15 9:15 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video Your link went to the official "Pepper Pig" site. Try this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i_KaFRz8Vpk Cool, be interesting to see if anyones found the coral in that Lake before. Tim has marine biology interests, wonder if he knows anything about it. Alan Sent from my iPad On 31/08/2015, at 11:38 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I just posted two video's from today's dive. Amazing freshwater coral images. Youtube.com under Hank Pronk Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 02:30:48 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 06:30:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <007b01d0e475$5c4d22d0$14e76870$@telus.net> References: <131412469.3123370.1440977900546.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <007b01d0e475$5c4d22d0$14e76870$@telus.net> Message-ID: <485695388.3995042.1441089048823.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> OK Hank,?you might have to think up a name for your new discovery.Any suggestions???Alan From: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 5:16 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video #yiv3562169199 #yiv3562169199 -- _filtered #yiv3562169199 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3562169199 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3562169199 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv3562169199 #yiv3562169199 p.yiv3562169199MsoNormal, #yiv3562169199 li.yiv3562169199MsoNormal, #yiv3562169199 div.yiv3562169199MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv3562169199 a:link, #yiv3562169199 span.yiv3562169199MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3562169199 a:visited, #yiv3562169199 span.yiv3562169199MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3562169199 span.yiv3562169199EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv3562169199 .yiv3562169199MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv3562169199 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv3562169199 div.yiv3562169199WordSection1 {}#yiv3562169199 This looks really interesting, Hank, Alan.? They look very similar to shallow water microbialites in Pavilion Lake that I took photos of five years ago. ?Do you have a close-up photo of this stuff?? What depth was this video taken?? It is worth investigating further. ?The so called "fresh water coral" in Pavilion Lake is cyano-bacteria microbialites.? Very common in fossil form but ridiculously rare in living form.? So far found living only in Pavilion Lake and Kelly Lake in BC, and in a high mountain lake in Chile.? That's really about it.? I will send the video link to Donnie Reid at Nuytco, who is the project manager for the ongoing NASA Pavilion Lake Research Project (PLRP).? PLRP was a significant joint NASA and CSA space analogue project investigating these ancient life forms that may be similar to life, or fossil life, located on Mars.? For several years Nuytco had the DW2000's in Pavilion and trained various American and Canadian astronauts and astrobiologists in space analogue research.? NASA had their Mobile Mission Control Center there as well.? I dropped in on the 2010 , 2011, and 2014 events in my official capacity as PLRP groupie (actually, in 2010 I ?visited as the project manager for the BC Institute of Technology Underwater Observatory project).? PLRP is now a much scaled down NASA funded project, mostly out of NASA Ames Research Center with researchers from several American and Canadian universities attending.? Of course, Nuytco now provides DW2000's for NASA's NEEMO missions at the Aquarius manned undersea habitat off Key Largo. ?Check out the web site www.pavilionlake.com. ?Pavilion Lake is a very clear lake, but not because the microbialites are filter feeders.? The microbiologists and limnologists are still trying to figure these creatures out.? Take note that Pavilion Lake has very restrictive diving regulations.? There are only two sites where scuba diving is allowed.? Subs are not specifically mentioned in the restrictions, but NASA and CSA get special permits from the feds and province to operate outside of those designated areas for sub-surface operations (divers, ROV's, and submersibles).? Surprisingly, gasoline powered vessels are still allowed on the lake.? We checked out the launch ramp last summer and you should be able to launch your sub from your current trailer without unhooking.? But bring the tow straps just in case.? Apart from the microbialites growing on anything solid (rocks, logs, sticks, pop cans), the bottom is soft. ?2010 anecdote: DW2000's are actually quite noisy underwater. ?Tim ? ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: August-30-15 9:15 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video ?Your link went to the official "Pepper Pig" site.Try this?https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i_KaFRz8VpkCool, be interesting to see if anyones found the coral in that Lake before.Tim has marine biology interests, wonder if he knows anything about it.Alan Sent from my iPad On 31/08/2015, at 11:38 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I just posted two video's from today's dive. ?Amazing ?freshwater coral images. ?Youtube.com under Hank PronkHank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 08:23:19 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 12:23:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <485695388.3995042.1441089048823.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <485695388.3995042.1441089048823.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1560017883.4050005.1441110199518.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,It is not my discovery, it is well known that the coral?exists in Premier Lake. ?Tim, we should plan a trip to Pavilion Lake with Gamma for the spring. ?I will put a trim tank in Gamma so there is no risk of hitting the bottom. ?I have been thinking about a plastic trim tank anyways to reduce the dry weight of the sub after the pod is on. ?The down side of the pod is the extra towing weight.Hank On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 12:34 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: OK Hank,?you might have to think up a name for your new discovery.Any suggestions???Alan From: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 5:16 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video #yiv3606958348 -- filtered {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}#yiv3606958348 filtered {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}#yiv3606958348 filtered {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv3606958348 p.yiv3606958348MsoNormal, #yiv3606958348 li.yiv3606958348MsoNormal, #yiv3606958348 div.yiv3606958348MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv3606958348 a:link, #yiv3606958348 span.yiv3606958348MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3606958348 a:visited, #yiv3606958348 span.yiv3606958348MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3606958348 span.yiv3606958348EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv3606958348 .yiv3606958348MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv3606958348 filtered {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv3606958348 div.yiv3606958348WordSection1 {}#yiv3606958348 This looks really interesting, Hank, Alan.? They look very similar to shallow water microbialites in Pavilion Lake that I took photos of five years ago. ?Do you have a close-up photo of this stuff?? What depth was this video taken?? It is worth investigating further. ?The so called "fresh water coral" in Pavilion Lake is cyano-bacteria microbialites.? Very common in fossil form but ridiculously rare in living form.? So far found living only in Pavilion Lake and Kelly Lake in BC, and in a high mountain lake in Chile.? That's really about it.? I will send the video link to Donnie Reid at Nuytco, who is the project manager for the ongoing NASA Pavilion Lake Research Project (PLRP).? PLRP was a significant joint NASA and CSA space analogue project investigating these ancient life forms that may be similar to life, or fossil life, located on Mars.? For several years Nuytco had the DW2000's in Pavilion and trained various American and Canadian astronauts and astrobiologists in space analogue research.? NASA had their Mobile Mission Control Center there as well.? I dropped in on the 2010 , 2011, and 2014 events in my official capacity as PLRP groupie (actually, in 2010 I ?visited as the project manager for the BC Institute of Technology Underwater Observatory project).? PLRP is now a much scaled down NASA funded project, mostly out of NASA Ames Research Center with researchers from several American and Canadian universities attending.? Of course, Nuytco now provides DW2000's for NASA's NEEMO missions at the Aquarius manned undersea habitat off Key Largo. ?Check out the web site www.pavilionlake.com. ?Pavilion Lake is a very clear lake, but not because the microbialites are filter feeders.? The microbiologists and limnologists are still trying to figure these creatures out.? Take note that Pavilion Lake has very restrictive diving regulations.? There are only two sites where scuba diving is allowed.? Subs are not specifically mentioned in the restrictions, but NASA and CSA get special permits from the feds and province to operate outside of those designated areas for sub-surface operations (divers, ROV's, and submersibles).? Surprisingly, gasoline powered vessels are still allowed on the lake.? We checked out the launch ramp last summer and you should be able to launch your sub from your current trailer without unhooking.? But bring the tow straps just in case.? Apart from the microbialites growing on anything solid (rocks, logs, sticks, pop cans), the bottom is soft. ?2010 anecdote: DW2000's are actually quite noisy underwater. ?Tim ? ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: August-30-15 9:15 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video ?Your link went to the official "Pepper Pig" site.Try this?https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i_KaFRz8VpkCool, be interesting to see if anyones found the coral in that Lake before.Tim has marine biology interests, wonder if he knows anything about it.Alan Sent from my iPad On 31/08/2015, at 11:38 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I just posted two video's from today's dive. ?Amazing ?freshwater coral images. ?Youtube.com under Hank PronkHank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 08:39:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 12:39:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mike Caudle contact Message-ID: <1195149204.4037458.1441111140383.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Mike,Can you contact me please at hankpronk at live.ca ? ?I lost your e mail.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 12:08:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 08:08:51 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <1560017883.4050005.1441110199518.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <485695388.3995042.1441089048823.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1560017883.4050005.1441110199518.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, i found on a lake in mexicali baja ca were i live a litlle red worm, this worm build similar structures as use the mud to buld structures similar to the coral formations, is not coral just complicate mud structures were another underwater critters live, plants grow and are full of ilfe, may be is something that need more study 2015-09-01 4:23 GMT-08:00 hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > Alan, > It is not my discovery, it is well known that the coral exists in Premier > Lake. > Tim, we should plan a trip to Pavilion Lake with Gamma for the spring. I > will put a trim tank in Gamma so there is no risk of hitting the bottom. I > have been thinking about a plastic trim tank anyways to reduce the dry > weight of the sub after the pod is on. The down side of the pod is the > extra towing weight. > Hank > > > > On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 12:34 AM, Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > OK Hank, > you might have to think up a name for your new discovery. > Any suggestions??? > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > > *To:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 1, 2015 5:16 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video > > This looks really interesting, Hank, Alan. They look very similar to > shallow water microbialites in Pavilion Lake that I took photos of five > years ago. > > Do you have a close-up photo of this stuff? What depth was this video > taken? It is worth investigating further. > > The so called "fresh water coral" in Pavilion Lake is cyano-bacteria > microbialites. Very common in fossil form but ridiculously rare in living > form. So far found living only in Pavilion Lake and Kelly Lake in BC, and > in a high mountain lake in Chile. That's really about it. I will send the > video link to Donnie Reid at Nuytco, who is the project manager for the > ongoing NASA Pavilion Lake Research Project (PLRP). PLRP was a significant > joint NASA and CSA space analogue project investigating these ancient life > forms that may be similar to life, or fossil life, located on Mars. For > several years Nuytco had the DW2000's in Pavilion and trained various > American and Canadian astronauts and astrobiologists in space analogue > research. NASA had their Mobile Mission Control Center there as well. I > dropped in on the 2010 , 2011, and 2014 events in my official capacity as > PLRP groupie (actually, in 2010 I visited as the project manager for the > BC Institute of Technology Underwater Observatory project). PLRP is now a > much scaled down NASA funded project, mostly out of NASA Ames Research > Center with researchers from several American and Canadian universities > attending. Of course, Nuytco now provides DW2000's for NASA's NEEMO > missions at the Aquarius manned undersea habitat off Key Largo. > > Check out the web site www.pavilionlake.com. > > Pavilion Lake is a very clear lake, but not because the microbialites are > filter feeders. The microbiologists and limnologists are still trying to > figure these creatures out. Take note that Pavilion Lake has very > restrictive diving regulations. There are only two sites where scuba > diving is allowed. Subs are not specifically mentioned in the > restrictions, but NASA and CSA get special permits from the feds and > province to operate outside of those designated areas for sub-surface > operations (divers, ROV's, and submersibles). Surprisingly, gasoline > powered vessels are still allowed on the lake. We checked out the launch > ramp last summer and you should be able to launch your sub from your > current trailer without unhooking. But bring the tow straps just in case. > Apart from the microbialites growing on anything solid (rocks, logs, > sticks, pop cans), the bottom is soft. > > 2010 anecdote: DW2000's are actually quite noisy underwater. > > Tim > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* August-30-15 9:15 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video > > Your link went to the official "Pepper Pig" site. > Try this > https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i_KaFRz8Vpk > Cool, be interesting to see if anyones found the coral in that Lake before. > Tim has marine biology interests, wonder if he knows anything about it. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 31/08/2015, at 11:38 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I just posted two video's from today's dive. Amazing freshwater coral > images. Youtube.com under Hank Pronk > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 12:29:35 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 16:29:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1300477496.4248989.1441124975835.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I use the term coral because that is what the Provincial Park operator called it.Hank On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 10:08 AM, roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi, i found on a lake in mexicali baja ca were i live a litlle red worm, this worm build similar structures as use the mud to buld structures similar to the coral formations, is not coral just complicate mud structures were another underwater critters live, plants grow and are full of ilfe, may be is something that need more study 2015-09-01 4:23 GMT-08:00 hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles : Alan,It is not my discovery, it is well known that the coral?exists in Premier Lake. ?Tim, we should plan a trip to Pavilion Lake with Gamma for the spring.? I will put a trim tank in Gamma so there is no risk of hitting the bottom.? I have been thinking about a plastic trim tank anyways to reduce the dry weight of the sub after the pod is on.? The down side of the pod is the extra towing weight.Hank On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 12:34 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: OK Hank,?you might have to think up a name for your new discovery.Any suggestions???Alan From: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 5:16 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video This looks really interesting, Hank, Alan.? They look very similar to shallow water microbialites in Pavilion Lake that I took photos of five years ago. ?Do you have a close-up photo of this stuff?? What depth was this video taken?? It is worth investigating further. ?The so called "fresh water coral" in Pavilion Lake is cyano-bacteria microbialites.? Very common in fossil form but ridiculously rare in living form.? So far found living only in Pavilion Lake and Kelly Lake in BC, and in a high mountain lake in Chile.? That's really about it.? I will send the video link to Donnie Reid at Nuytco, who is the project manager for the ongoing NASA Pavilion Lake Research Project (PLRP).? PLRP was a significant joint NASA and CSA space analogue project investigating these ancient life forms that may be similar to life, or fossil life, located on Mars.? For several years Nuytco had the DW2000's in Pavilion and trained various American and Canadian astronauts and astrobiologists in space analogue research.? NASA had their Mobile Mission Control Center there as well.? I dropped in on the 2010 , 2011, and 2014 events in my official capacity as PLRP groupie (actually, in 2010 I ?visited as the project manager for the BC Institute of Technology Underwater Observatory project).? PLRP is now a much scaled down NASA funded project, mostly out of NASA Ames Research Center with researchers from several American and Canadian universities attending.? Of course, Nuytco now provides DW2000's for NASA's NEEMO missions at the Aquarius manned undersea habitat off Key Largo. ?Check out the web site www.pavilionlake.com. ?Pavilion Lake is a very clear lake, but not because the microbialites are filter feeders.? The microbiologists and limnologists are still trying to figure these creatures out.? Take note that Pavilion Lake has very restrictive diving regulations.? There are only two sites where scuba diving is allowed.? Subs are not specifically mentioned in the restrictions, but NASA and CSA get special permits from the feds and province to operate outside of those designated areas for sub-surface operations (divers, ROV's, and submersibles).? Surprisingly, gasoline powered vessels are still allowed on the lake.? We checked out the launch ramp last summer and you should be able to launch your sub from your current trailer without unhooking.? But bring the tow straps just in case.? Apart from the microbialites growing on anything solid (rocks, logs, sticks, pop cans), the bottom is soft. ?2010 anecdote: DW2000's are actually quite noisy underwater. ?Tim ? ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: August-30-15 9:15 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video ?Your link went to the official "Pepper Pig" site.Try this?https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i_KaFRz8VpkCool, be interesting to see if anyones found the coral in that Lake before.Tim has marine biology interests, wonder if he knows anything about it.Alan Sent from my iPad On 31/08/2015, at 11:38 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I just posted two video's from today's dive.? Amazing ?freshwater coral images. ?Youtube.com under Hank PronkHank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 12:57:07 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 08:57:07 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <1300477496.4248989.1441124975835.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1300477496.4248989.1441124975835.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Just was a reference and dont told that you dont find coral, may be is an ancient reminder of the past when that was a coral reef, 2015-09-01 8:29 GMT-08:00 hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > I use the term coral because that is what the Provincial Park operator > called it. > Hank > > > > On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 10:08 AM, roberto alvarez via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi, i found on a lake in mexicali baja ca were i live a litlle red worm, > this worm build similar structures as use the mud to buld structures > similar to the coral formations, is not coral just complicate mud > structures were another underwater critters live, plants grow and are full > of ilfe, may be is something that need more study > > 2015-09-01 4:23 GMT-08:00 hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > > Alan, > It is not my discovery, it is well known that the coral exists in Premier > Lake. > Tim, we should plan a trip to Pavilion Lake with Gamma for the spring. I > will put a trim tank in Gamma so there is no risk of hitting the bottom. I > have been thinking about a plastic trim tank anyways to reduce the dry > weight of the sub after the pod is on. The down side of the pod is the > extra towing weight. > Hank > > > > On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 12:34 AM, Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > OK Hank, > you might have to think up a name for your new discovery. > Any suggestions??? > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > > *To:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 1, 2015 5:16 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video > > This looks really interesting, Hank, Alan. They look very similar to > shallow water microbialites in Pavilion Lake that I took photos of five > years ago. > > Do you have a close-up photo of this stuff? What depth was this video > taken? It is worth investigating further. > > The so called "fresh water coral" in Pavilion Lake is cyano-bacteria > microbialites. Very common in fossil form but ridiculously rare in living > form. So far found living only in Pavilion Lake and Kelly Lake in BC, and > in a high mountain lake in Chile. That's really about it. I will send the > video link to Donnie Reid at Nuytco, who is the project manager for the > ongoing NASA Pavilion Lake Research Project (PLRP). PLRP was a significant > joint NASA and CSA space analogue project investigating these ancient life > forms that may be similar to life, or fossil life, located on Mars. For > several years Nuytco had the DW2000's in Pavilion and trained various > American and Canadian astronauts and astrobiologists in space analogue > research. NASA had their Mobile Mission Control Center there as well. I > dropped in on the 2010 , 2011, and 2014 events in my official capacity as > PLRP groupie (actually, in 2010 I visited as the project manager for the > BC Institute of Technology Underwater Observatory project). PLRP is now a > much scaled down NASA funded project, mostly out of NASA Ames Research > Center with researchers from several American and Canadian universities > attending. Of course, Nuytco now provides DW2000's for NASA's NEEMO > missions at the Aquarius manned undersea habitat off Key Largo. > > Check out the web site www.pavilionlake.com. > > Pavilion Lake is a very clear lake, but not because the microbialites are > filter feeders. The microbiologists and limnologists are still trying to > figure these creatures out. Take note that Pavilion Lake has very > restrictive diving regulations. There are only two sites where scuba > diving is allowed. Subs are not specifically mentioned in the > restrictions, but NASA and CSA get special permits from the feds and > province to operate outside of those designated areas for sub-surface > operations (divers, ROV's, and submersibles). Surprisingly, gasoline > powered vessels are still allowed on the lake. We checked out the launch > ramp last summer and you should be able to launch your sub from your > current trailer without unhooking. But bring the tow straps just in case. > Apart from the microbialites growing on anything solid (rocks, logs, > sticks, pop cans), the bottom is soft. > > 2010 anecdote: DW2000's are actually quite noisy underwater. > > Tim > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* August-30-15 9:15 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video > > Your link went to the official "Pepper Pig" site. > Try this > https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i_KaFRz8Vpk > Cool, be interesting to see if anyones found the coral in that Lake before. > Tim has marine biology interests, wonder if he knows anything about it. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 31/08/2015, at 11:38 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I just posted two video's from today's dive. Amazing freshwater coral > images. Youtube.com under Hank Pronk > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 13:47:13 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 10:47:13 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1441129633.66236.YahooMailMobile@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> It looks lot like Tufa rock also, I plan to get some up close video of it. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 17:40:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 16:40:49 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx Message-ID: I took the R300 out this weekend. This was the first time to have it back in water since the 2013 Psub convention in Islamorada. The objective of the dive was to evaluate some fairly significant modifications. To improve low speed maneuverability and reduce noise, I junked the jet pump and ailerons and went to four fixed MK 101 thrusters. I also junked the VBT and just add ballast to get neutral. Also I added a Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor to measure altitude, speed and water temperature. It worked great. Installed a new LED 5k light, upgraded to a new HMI, and changed the foot and joystick controls. I also rewired the main battery bank for 36VDC rather than 120VDC and installed four MK 101 motor controllers. I modified the aft horizontal MK-101s by adding Kort nozzles and used air to pressure compensate. I used the same pressure reducing regulator Hugh Fulton posted about awhile back that he is using on the QSub. The changes decreased the weight of boat by 200 lbs while the displacement remained the same. My son, wife, a diving friend and I took the boat to Canyon Lake in Texas this Sunday. Visibility was less than 5 ft so could not see much. My main interest at this point was just to get into water. After launching the boat, I did some testing to get the base line ballast both mid-ship and in the stern correct so that I could get neutral and trim after flooding the MBT. After establishing the fixed ballast, I took the boat out to test how the horizontal thrusters work for surface maneuvering. I was very happy with way the horizontal thrusters performed. Surface maneuverability was excellent and these motors are supper quite. I did find that you could cavitate the props on the surface if you hit it with too much power. As before the changes, when you get up to about 4 knots, the bow wave obscures the pilots vision. Breaking is much improved and it is now possible to rotate on the surface or in the water column. I then took the boat out for the first submerged maneuvering. The vertical thrusters were very effective for depth control, pitch and roll control. I found that it was much easier to get to specific depth and hold this depth using the vertical thrusters than the old way I did it with the VBT. They worked great. While removing the VBT simplified dive operations, it did result in loss of freeboard of about 1 inch. This is a downside of removing the VBT as the freeboard was already quite low. I just have to be careful when opening the hatch. I opened and closed that hatch throughout the day and only took splash one time when a boat came by I did not see. The new Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor worked great. With visibility less than 5 ft, being able to know the altitude was very helpful on dives. As usual, it got darker as you descend but knowing when the bottom was coming up was nice. On the negative side, during the last dive of the day, the vertical thrusters failed while my son was on bottom in about 27 ft of water. He had to surface using the MBT. Why these thrusters failed is a mystery. It was at the end of the day and I had pushed the batteries pretty hard all day along but we still had plenty of battery voltage. My sons second attempt to surface was to put some air in the forward MBT to lift the nose and then use the aft horizontal thrusters to power to the surface. This failed as aft horizontal thrusters were not responsive. After surfacing with the MBT, we discovered that tree limb about 1.5? diameter had lodged in the starboard horizontal thruster between the prop and the Kort nozzle. This explains why we lost horizontal thrust but not vertical. After getting the boat back on the trailer, I tested the vertical thrusters. They would barely turn even when giving them full power. My first guess was that the air pressure compensation system failed and the thrusters were full of water. When I got the boat back to my workshop, I disassembled both vertical thrusters and discovered they were dry. After recharging the boat, I tried the vertical thrusters again and got the same slow speed operation. After turning them off and on for about five minutes, the starboard vertical thruster stared working correctly. I kept switching the port vertical thruster off and on and all of a sudden, it began working correctly. When I had the motors apart, I put a multimeter on the wires going to the brushes and found it showing 35VDC. At this point the control signal to these motors was 2.5V so voltage to the motors should have been zero. My guess is that the MK motor controller is acting up. But it is strange that both the vertical controllers would fail. Also, if it were bad motor controllers, then why did they both start working again. This is still a head stumper for me. Also towards the end of the day, the OTS underwater communication stared acting up. Base and standby diver using an OTS Guardian full face mask could hear underwater transmissions from me but I could not receive either from the diver or from the base. The underwater commns had been working great for the previous 7 hours. I was also having trouble about this time with the VHF radio that Alec gave me. Again I could not receive. When I get a chance I am going to see if the connection to the antenna got disconnected. One of the nice new features of the new HMI besides being larger and having a higher resolution, was it has built in data logging. So after the dive it was very nice to be able to download into Excel about 50 variables logged at a one minute interval. I was able to plot these and get a detailed picture of how all the ship systems were working during the day. If anyone has any thoughts on why the vertical MK 101 thruster motors failed, or have had any negative experience with the MK101 motor controllers, I would love to hear them. When they are working, they are great. All in all, I was very happy with the changes but have a few kinks to work out before I take her out again. Now if I could just find some clear water to dive in, I would be a happy camper! Cliff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 17:55:44 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 21:55:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1947915005.4407818.1441144544926.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,It sounds like the vertical thrusters were used more than the forward thrusters, is it possible that they got hot and went into preservation mode. ?The fact that both quit must mean it is a common problem. ?It is odd they both quit, also the controllers could ?go into a?preservation mode if the current level drops. ?Hank On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 3:41 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Itook the R300 out this weekend.? This wasthe first time to have it back in water since the 2013 Psub convention in Islamorada.? The objective of the dive was to evaluate somefairly significant modifications. Toimprove low speed maneuverability and reduce noise, I junked the jet pump and aileronsand went to four fixed MK 101 thrusters. I also junked the VBT and just add ballastto get neutral. Also I added a Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor to measurealtitude, speed and water temperature.?It worked great.? Installed a newLED 5k light, upgraded to a new HMI, and changed the foot and joystick controls.?I also rewired the main battery bank for36VDC rather than 120VDC and installed four MK 101 motor controllers.? I modified the aft horizontal MK-101s byadding Kort nozzles and used air to pressure compensate.? I used the same pressure reducing regulatorHugh Fulton posted about awhile back that he is using on the QSub.? ??The changesdecreased the weight of boat by 200 lbs while the displacement remained thesame. ??Myson, wife, a diving friend and I took the boat to Canyon Lake in Texas thisSunday.? Visibility was less than 5 ft socould not see much.? My main interest atthis point was just to get into water.? Afterlaunching the boat, I did some testing to get the base line ballast both mid-shipand in the stern correct so that I could get neutral and trim after floodingthe MBT.? After establishing the fixedballast, I took the boat out to test how the horizontal thrusters work forsurface maneuvering. ??I was very happywith way the horizontal thrusters performed. Surface maneuverability wasexcellent and these motors are supper quite.?I did find that you could cavitate the props on the surface if you hitit with too much power. As before the changes, when you get up to about 4knots, the bow wave obscures the pilots vision. ??Breaking is much improved and it is nowpossible to rotate on the surface or in the water column.?Ithen took the boat out for the first submerged maneuvering.? The vertical thrusters were very effectivefor depth control, pitch and roll control. ?I found that it was much easier to get tospecific depth and hold this depth using the vertical thrusters than the oldway I did it with the VBT.? They workedgreat.? While removing the VBT simplifieddive operations, it did result in loss of freeboard of about 1 inch.? This is a downside of removing the VBT as thefreeboard was already quite low.? I just haveto be careful when opening the hatch.? Iopened and closed that hatch throughout the day and only took splash one timewhen a boat came by I did not see.?Thenew Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor worked great. With visibility less than 5ft, being able to know the altitude was very helpful on dives. As usual, it gotdarker as you descend but knowing when the bottom was coming up was nice.? ?Onthe negative side, during the last dive of the day, the vertical thrustersfailed while my son was on bottom in about 27 ft of water.? He had to surface using the MBT. Why thesethrusters failed is a mystery. ?It was atthe end of the day and I had pushed the batteries pretty hard all day along butwe still had plenty of battery voltage.??My sons second attempt to surfacewas to put some air in the forward MBT to lift the nose and then use the aft horizontalthrusters to power to the surface.? Thisfailed as aft horizontal thrusters were not responsive.? After surfacing with the MBT, we discoveredthat tree limb about 1.5? diameter had lodged in the starboard horizontal thrusterbetween the prop and the Kort nozzle.?This explains why we lost horizontal thrust but not vertical.? After getting the boat back on the trailer, Itested the vertical thrusters.? Theywould barely turn even when giving them full power.? My first guess was that the air pressure compensationsystem failed and the thrusters were full of water.? When I got the boat back to my workshop, Idisassembled both vertical thrusters and discovered they were dry. After rechargingthe boat, I tried the vertical thrusters again and got the same slow speedoperation.? After turning them off and onfor about five minutes, the starboard vertical thruster stared workingcorrectly.? I kept switching the portvertical thruster off and on and all of a sudden, it began working correctly.? When I had the motors apart, I put amultimeter on the wires going to the brushes and found it showing 35VDC.? At this point the control signal to thesemotors was 2.5V so voltage to the motors should have been zero.?? My guess is that the MK motor controller isacting up.? But it is strange that boththe vertical controllers would fail.?Also, if it were? bad motor controllers, then why did they both start workingagain.? This is still a head stumper forme.??Alsotowards the end of the day, the OTS underwater communication stared acting up.? Base and standby diver using an OTS Guardianfull face mask could hear underwater transmissions from me but I could notreceive either from the diver or from the base.?The underwater commns had been working great for the previous 7 hours.? ?I wasalso having trouble about this time with the VHF radio that Alec gave me.? Again I could not receive.? When I get a chance I am going to see if theconnection to the antenna got disconnected.?Oneof the nice new features of the new HMI besides being larger and having a higherresolution, was it has built in data logging.?So after the dive it was very nice to be able to download into Excel about50 variables logged at a one minute interval. I was able to plot these and geta detailed picture of how all the ship systems were working during the day.?Ifanyone has any thoughts on why the vertical MK 101 thruster motors failed, orhave had any negative experience with the MK101 motor controllers, I would loveto hear them.? When they are working, theyare great.?Allin all, I was very happy with the changes but have a few kinks to work outbefore I take her out again.? Now if I could just find some clear water to dive in, I would be a happy camper! Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 18:07:05 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 17:07:05 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx In-Reply-To: <1947915005.4407818.1441144544926.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1947915005.4407818.1441144544926.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, do you have any paper work or details on the MK 101 preservation mode or current level protection that is built into the MK 101s? I do know my son was working them pretty hard and I was as well on the previous dive. On the surface he was rocking the boat by slamming the joystick port and aft to see what kind of roll he could get on the surface so maybe he pushed them into a protected mode? Cliff On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 4:55 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > It sounds like the vertical thrusters were used more than the forward > thrusters, is it possible that they got hot and went into preservation > mode. The fact that both quit must mean it is a common problem. It is odd > they both quit, also the controllers could go into a preservation mode if > the current level drops. > Hank > > > > On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 3:41 PM, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I took the R300 out this weekend. This was the first time to have it > back in water since the 2013 Psub convention in Islamorada. The > objective of the dive was to evaluate some fairly significant modifications. > > To improve low speed maneuverability and reduce noise, I junked the jet > pump and ailerons and went to four fixed MK 101 thrusters. I also junked > the VBT and just add ballast to get neutral. Also I added a Garmin AIRMAR > DST800 Smart Sensor to measure altitude, speed and water temperature. It > worked great. Installed a new LED 5k light, upgraded to a new HMI, and > changed the foot and joystick controls. I also rewired the main battery > bank for 36VDC rather than 120VDC and installed four MK 101 motor > controllers. I modified the aft horizontal MK-101s by adding Kort > nozzles and used air to pressure compensate. I used the same pressure > reducing regulator Hugh Fulton posted about awhile back that he is using on > the QSub. The changes decreased the weight of boat by 200 lbs while > the displacement remained the same. > > My son, wife, a diving friend and I took the boat to Canyon Lake in Texas > this Sunday. Visibility was less than 5 ft so could not see much. My > main interest at this point was just to get into water. After launching > the boat, I did some testing to get the base line ballast both mid-ship and > in the stern correct so that I could get neutral and trim after flooding > the MBT. After establishing the fixed ballast, I took the boat out to > test how the horizontal thrusters work for surface maneuvering. I was > very happy with way the horizontal thrusters performed. Surface > maneuverability was excellent and these motors are supper quite. I did > find that you could cavitate the props on the surface if you hit it with > too much power. As before the changes, when you get up to about 4 knots, > the bow wave obscures the pilots vision. Breaking is much improved and > it is now possible to rotate on the surface or in the water column. > > I then took the boat out for the first submerged maneuvering. The > vertical thrusters were very effective for depth control, pitch and roll > control. I found that it was much easier to get to specific depth and > hold this depth using the vertical thrusters than the old way I did it with > the VBT. They worked great. While removing the VBT simplified dive > operations, it did result in loss of freeboard of about 1 inch. This is > a downside of removing the VBT as the freeboard was already quite low. I > just have to be careful when opening the hatch. I opened and closed that > hatch throughout the day and only took splash one time when a boat came by > I did not see. > > The new Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor worked great. With visibility > less than 5 ft, being able to know the altitude was very helpful on dives. > As usual, it got darker as you descend but knowing when the bottom was > coming up was nice. > > On the negative side, during the last dive of the day, the vertical > thrusters failed while my son was on bottom in about 27 ft of water. He > had to surface using the MBT. Why these thrusters failed is a mystery. It > was at the end of the day and I had pushed the batteries pretty hard all > day along but we still had plenty of battery voltage. My sons second > attempt to surface was to put some air in the forward MBT to lift the nose > and then use the aft horizontal thrusters to power to the surface. This > failed as aft horizontal thrusters were not responsive. After surfacing > with the MBT, we discovered that tree limb about 1.5? diameter had lodged > in the starboard horizontal thruster between the prop and the Kort nozzle. > This explains why we lost horizontal thrust but not vertical. After > getting the boat back on the trailer, I tested the vertical thrusters. They > would barely turn even when giving them full power. My first guess was > that the air pressure compensation system failed and the thrusters were > full of water. When I got the boat back to my workshop, I disassembled > both vertical thrusters and discovered they were dry. After recharging the > boat, I tried the vertical thrusters again and got the same slow speed > operation. After turning them off and on for about five minutes, the > starboard vertical thruster stared working correctly. I kept switching > the port vertical thruster off and on and all of a sudden, it began working > correctly. When I had the motors apart, I put a multimeter on the wires > going to the brushes and found it showing 35VDC. At this point the > control signal to these motors was 2.5V so voltage to the motors should > have been zero. My guess is that the MK motor controller is acting up. But > it is strange that both the vertical controllers would fail. Also, if it > were bad motor controllers, then why did they both start working again. This > is still a head stumper for me. > > Also towards the end of the day, the OTS underwater communication stared > acting up. Base and standby diver using an OTS Guardian full face mask > could hear underwater transmissions from me but I could not receive either > from the diver or from the base. The underwater commns had been working > great for the previous 7 hours. I was also having trouble about this > time with the VHF radio that Alec gave me. Again I could not receive. When > I get a chance I am going to see if the connection to the antenna got > disconnected. > > One of the nice new features of the new HMI besides being larger and > having a higher resolution, was it has built in data logging. So after > the dive it was very nice to be able to download into Excel about 50 > variables logged at a one minute interval. I was able to plot these and get > a detailed picture of how all the ship systems were working during the day. > > If anyone has any thoughts on why the vertical MK 101 thruster motors > failed, or have had any negative experience with the MK101 motor > controllers, I would love to hear them. When they are working, they are > great. > > All in all, I was very happy with the changes but have a few kinks to work > out before I take her out again. Now if I could just find some clear > water to dive in, I would be a happy camper! > > Cliff > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 18:21:06 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 22:21:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <344167917.13054.1441146066568.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,Sorry Cliff, I use Curtis controllers, I am just assuming they work the same way. ? My guess is they over heated by mounting location. ? Are the controllers in an area where they can breath so to speak.Hank On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 4:07 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, do you have any paper work or details on??the MK 101 preservation mode or current level protection that is built into the MK 101s?? I do know my son was working them pretty hard and I was as well on the previous dive.? On the surface he was rocking the boat by slamming the joystick port and aft to see what kind of roll he could get on the surface so maybe he pushed them into a protected mode? Cliff On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 4:55 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,It sounds like the vertical thrusters were used more than the forward thrusters, is it possible that they got hot and went into preservation mode.? The fact that both quit must mean it is a common problem.? It is odd they both quit, also the controllers could ?go into a?preservation mode if the current level drops. ?Hank On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 3:41 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Itook the R300 out this weekend.? This wasthe first time to have it back in water since the 2013 Psub convention in Islamorada.? The objective of the dive was to evaluate somefairly significant modifications. Toimprove low speed maneuverability and reduce noise, I junked the jet pump and aileronsand went to four fixed MK 101 thrusters. I also junked the VBT and just add ballastto get neutral. Also I added a Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor to measurealtitude, speed and water temperature.?It worked great.? Installed a newLED 5k light, upgraded to a new HMI, and changed the foot and joystick controls.?I also rewired the main battery bank for36VDC rather than 120VDC and installed four MK 101 motor controllers.? I modified the aft horizontal MK-101s byadding Kort nozzles and used air to pressure compensate.? I used the same pressure reducing regulatorHugh Fulton posted about awhile back that he is using on the QSub.? ??The changesdecreased the weight of boat by 200 lbs while the displacement remained thesame. ??Myson, wife, a diving friend and I took the boat to Canyon Lake in Texas thisSunday.? Visibility was less than 5 ft socould not see much.? My main interest atthis point was just to get into water.? Afterlaunching the boat, I did some testing to get the base line ballast both mid-shipand in the stern correct so that I could get neutral and trim after floodingthe MBT.? After establishing the fixedballast, I took the boat out to test how the horizontal thrusters work forsurface maneuvering. ??I was very happywith way the horizontal thrusters performed. Surface maneuverability wasexcellent and these motors are supper quite.?I did find that you could cavitate the props on the surface if you hitit with too much power. As before the changes, when you get up to about 4knots, the bow wave obscures the pilots vision. ??Breaking is much improved and it is nowpossible to rotate on the surface or in the water column.?Ithen took the boat out for the first submerged maneuvering.? The vertical thrusters were very effectivefor depth control, pitch and roll control. ?I found that it was much easier to get tospecific depth and hold this depth using the vertical thrusters than the oldway I did it with the VBT.? They workedgreat.? While removing the VBT simplifieddive operations, it did result in loss of freeboard of about 1 inch.? This is a downside of removing the VBT as thefreeboard was already quite low.? I just haveto be careful when opening the hatch.? Iopened and closed that hatch throughout the day and only took splash one timewhen a boat came by I did not see.?Thenew Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor worked great. With visibility less than 5ft, being able to know the altitude was very helpful on dives. As usual, it gotdarker as you descend but knowing when the bottom was coming up was nice.? ?Onthe negative side, during the last dive of the day, the vertical thrustersfailed while my son was on bottom in about 27 ft of water.? He had to surface using the MBT. Why thesethrusters failed is a mystery. ?It was atthe end of the day and I had pushed the batteries pretty hard all day along butwe still had plenty of battery voltage.??My sons second attempt to surfacewas to put some air in the forward MBT to lift the nose and then use the aft horizontalthrusters to power to the surface.? Thisfailed as aft horizontal thrusters were not responsive.? After surfacing with the MBT, we discoveredthat tree limb about 1.5? diameter had lodged in the starboard horizontal thrusterbetween the prop and the Kort nozzle.?This explains why we lost horizontal thrust but not vertical.? After getting the boat back on the trailer, Itested the vertical thrusters.? Theywould barely turn even when giving them full power.? My first guess was that the air pressure compensationsystem failed and the thrusters were full of water.? When I got the boat back to my workshop, Idisassembled both vertical thrusters and discovered they were dry. After rechargingthe boat, I tried the vertical thrusters again and got the same slow speedoperation.? After turning them off and onfor about five minutes, the starboard vertical thruster stared workingcorrectly.? I kept switching the portvertical thruster off and on and all of a sudden, it began working correctly.? When I had the motors apart, I put amultimeter on the wires going to the brushes and found it showing 35VDC.? At this point the control signal to thesemotors was 2.5V so voltage to the motors should have been zero.?? My guess is that the MK motor controller isacting up.? But it is strange that boththe vertical controllers would fail.?Also, if it were? bad motor controllers, then why did they both start workingagain.? This is still a head stumper forme.??Alsotowards the end of the day, the OTS underwater communication stared acting up.? Base and standby diver using an OTS Guardianfull face mask could hear underwater transmissions from me but I could notreceive either from the diver or from the base.?The underwater commns had been working great for the previous 7 hours.? ?I wasalso having trouble about this time with the VHF radio that Alec gave me.? Again I could not receive.? When I get a chance I am going to see if theconnection to the antenna got disconnected.?Oneof the nice new features of the new HMI besides being larger and having a higherresolution, was it has built in data logging.?So after the dive it was very nice to be able to download into Excel about50 variables logged at a one minute interval. I was able to plot these and geta detailed picture of how all the ship systems were working during the day.?Ifanyone has any thoughts on why the vertical MK 101 thruster motors failed, orhave had any negative experience with the MK101 motor controllers, I would loveto hear them.? When they are working, theyare great.?Allin all, I was very happy with the changes but have a few kinks to work outbefore I take her out again.? Now if I could just find some clear water to dive in, I would be a happy camper! Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 18:38:37 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 10:38:37 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55e628ee.49e1440a.4d451.5112@mx.google.com> All sounds loads of fun Cliff. Your problems smell of voltage drop especially after 7 hours. Is it possible that you have a dry joint or possibly a wet one at the connectors Cheers, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 2 September 2015 9:41 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx I took the R300 out this weekend. This was the first time to have it back in water since the 2013 Psub convention in Islamorada. The objective of the dive was to evaluate some fairly significant modifications. To improve low speed maneuverability and reduce noise, I junked the jet pump and ailerons and went to four fixed MK 101 thrusters. I also junked the VBT and just add ballast to get neutral. Also I added a Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor to measure altitude, speed and water temperature. It worked great. Installed a new LED 5k light, upgraded to a new HMI, and changed the foot and joystick controls. I also rewired the main battery bank for 36VDC rather than 120VDC and installed four MK 101 motor controllers. I modified the aft horizontal MK-101s by adding Kort nozzles and used air to pressure compensate. I used the same pressure reducing regulator Hugh Fulton posted about awhile back that he is using on the QSub. The changes decreased the weight of boat by 200 lbs while the displacement remained the same. My son, wife, a diving friend and I took the boat to Canyon Lake in Texas this Sunday. Visibility was less than 5 ft so could not see much. My main interest at this point was just to get into water. After launching the boat, I did some testing to get the base line ballast both mid-ship and in the stern correct so that I could get neutral and trim after flooding the MBT. After establishing the fixed ballast, I took the boat out to test how the horizontal thrusters work for surface maneuvering. I was very happy with way the horizontal thrusters performed. Surface maneuverability was excellent and these motors are supper quite. I did find that you could cavitate the props on the surface if you hit it with too much power. As before the changes, when you get up to about 4 knots, the bow wave obscures the pilots vision. Breaking is much improved and it is now possible to rotate on the surface or in the water column. I then took the boat out for the first submerged maneuvering. The vertical thrusters were very effective for depth control, pitch and roll control. I found that it was much easier to get to specific depth and hold this depth using the vertical thrusters than the old way I did it with the VBT. They worked great. While removing the VBT simplified dive operations, it did result in loss of freeboard of about 1 inch. This is a downside of removing the VBT as the freeboard was already quite low. I just have to be careful when opening the hatch. I opened and closed that hatch throughout the day and only took splash one time when a boat came by I did not see. The new Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor worked great. With visibility less than 5 ft, being able to know the altitude was very helpful on dives. As usual, it got darker as you descend but knowing when the bottom was coming up was nice. On the negative side, during the last dive of the day, the vertical thrusters failed while my son was on bottom in about 27 ft of water. He had to surface using the MBT. Why these thrusters failed is a mystery. It was at the end of the day and I had pushed the batteries pretty hard all day along but we still had plenty of battery voltage. My sons second attempt to surface was to put some air in the forward MBT to lift the nose and then use the aft horizontal thrusters to power to the surface. This failed as aft horizontal thrusters were not responsive. After surfacing with the MBT, we discovered that tree limb about 1.5? diameter had lodged in the starboard horizontal thruster between the prop and the Kort nozzle. This explains why we lost horizontal thrust but not vertical. After getting the boat back on the trailer, I tested the vertical thrusters. They would barely turn even when giving them full power. My first guess was that the air pressure compensation system failed and the thrusters were full of water. When I got the boat back to my workshop, I disassembled both vertical thrusters and discovered they were dry. After recharging the boat, I tried the vertical thrusters again and got the same slow speed operation. After turning them off and on for about five minutes, the starboard vertical thruster stared working correctly. I kept switching the port vertical thruster off and on and all of a sudden, it began working correctly. When I had the motors apart, I put a multimeter on the wires going to the brushes and found it showing 35VDC. At this point the control signal to these motors was 2.5V so voltage to the motors should have been zero. My guess is that the MK motor controller is acting up. But it is strange that both the vertical controllers would fail. Also, if it were bad motor controllers, then why did they both start working again. This is still a head stumper for me. Also towards the end of the day, the OTS underwater communication stared acting up. Base and standby diver using an OTS Guardian full face mask could hear underwater transmissions from me but I could not receive either from the diver or from the base. The underwater commns had been working great for the previous 7 hours. I was also having trouble about this time with the VHF radio that Alec gave me. Again I could not receive. When I get a chance I am going to see if the connection to the antenna got disconnected. One of the nice new features of the new HMI besides being larger and having a higher resolution, was it has built in data logging. So after the dive it was very nice to be able to download into Excel about 50 variables logged at a one minute interval. I was able to plot these and get a detailed picture of how all the ship systems were working during the day. If anyone has any thoughts on why the vertical MK 101 thruster motors failed, or have had any negative experience with the MK101 motor controllers, I would love to hear them. When they are working, they are great. All in all, I was very happy with the changes but have a few kinks to work out before I take her out again. Now if I could just find some clear water to dive in, I would be a happy camper! Cliff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 19:03:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 18:03:54 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx In-Reply-To: <344167917.13054.1441146066568.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <344167917.13054.1441146066568.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Could be overheating. They are in an electrical enclosure and there are four of them. Temperature was hot in the cabin and been pushing them hard all day. Cliff On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 5:21 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > Sorry Cliff, I use Curtis controllers, I am just assuming they work the > same way. My guess is they over heated by mounting location. Are the > controllers in an area where they can breath so to speak. > Hank > > > > On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 4:07 PM, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, do you have any paper work or details on the MK 101 preservation > mode or current level protection that is built into the MK 101s? I do know > my son was working them pretty hard and I was as well on the previous > dive. On the surface he was rocking the boat by slamming the joystick port > and aft to see what kind of roll he could get on the surface so maybe he > pushed them into a protected mode? > > Cliff > > On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 4:55 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, > It sounds like the vertical thrusters were used more than the forward > thrusters, is it possible that they got hot and went into preservation > mode. The fact that both quit must mean it is a common problem. It is odd > they both quit, also the controllers could go into a preservation mode if > the current level drops. > Hank > > > > On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 3:41 PM, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I took the R300 out this weekend. This was the first time to have it > back in water since the 2013 Psub convention in Islamorada. The > objective of the dive was to evaluate some fairly significant modifications. > > To improve low speed maneuverability and reduce noise, I junked the jet > pump and ailerons and went to four fixed MK 101 thrusters. I also junked > the VBT and just add ballast to get neutral. Also I added a Garmin AIRMAR > DST800 Smart Sensor to measure altitude, speed and water temperature. It > worked great. Installed a new LED 5k light, upgraded to a new HMI, and > changed the foot and joystick controls. I also rewired the main battery > bank for 36VDC rather than 120VDC and installed four MK 101 motor > controllers. I modified the aft horizontal MK-101s by adding Kort > nozzles and used air to pressure compensate. I used the same pressure > reducing regulator Hugh Fulton posted about awhile back that he is using on > the QSub. The changes decreased the weight of boat by 200 lbs while > the displacement remained the same. > > My son, wife, a diving friend and I took the boat to Canyon Lake in Texas > this Sunday. Visibility was less than 5 ft so could not see much. My > main interest at this point was just to get into water. After launching > the boat, I did some testing to get the base line ballast both mid-ship and > in the stern correct so that I could get neutral and trim after flooding > the MBT. After establishing the fixed ballast, I took the boat out to > test how the horizontal thrusters work for surface maneuvering. I was > very happy with way the horizontal thrusters performed. Surface > maneuverability was excellent and these motors are supper quite. I did > find that you could cavitate the props on the surface if you hit it with > too much power. As before the changes, when you get up to about 4 knots, > the bow wave obscures the pilots vision. Breaking is much improved and > it is now possible to rotate on the surface or in the water column. > > I then took the boat out for the first submerged maneuvering. The > vertical thrusters were very effective for depth control, pitch and roll > control. I found that it was much easier to get to specific depth and > hold this depth using the vertical thrusters than the old way I did it with > the VBT. They worked great. While removing the VBT simplified dive > operations, it did result in loss of freeboard of about 1 inch. This is > a downside of removing the VBT as the freeboard was already quite low. I > just have to be careful when opening the hatch. I opened and closed that > hatch throughout the day and only took splash one time when a boat came by > I did not see. > > The new Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor worked great. With visibility > less than 5 ft, being able to know the altitude was very helpful on dives. > As usual, it got darker as you descend but knowing when the bottom was > coming up was nice. > > On the negative side, during the last dive of the day, the vertical > thrusters failed while my son was on bottom in about 27 ft of water. He > had to surface using the MBT. Why these thrusters failed is a mystery. It > was at the end of the day and I had pushed the batteries pretty hard all > day along but we still had plenty of battery voltage. My sons second > attempt to surface was to put some air in the forward MBT to lift the nose > and then use the aft horizontal thrusters to power to the surface. This > failed as aft horizontal thrusters were not responsive. After surfacing > with the MBT, we discovered that tree limb about 1.5? diameter had lodged > in the starboard horizontal thruster between the prop and the Kort nozzle. > This explains why we lost horizontal thrust but not vertical. After > getting the boat back on the trailer, I tested the vertical thrusters. They > would barely turn even when giving them full power. My first guess was > that the air pressure compensation system failed and the thrusters were > full of water. When I got the boat back to my workshop, I disassembled > both vertical thrusters and discovered they were dry. After recharging the > boat, I tried the vertical thrusters again and got the same slow speed > operation. After turning them off and on for about five minutes, the > starboard vertical thruster stared working correctly. I kept switching > the port vertical thruster off and on and all of a sudden, it began working > correctly. When I had the motors apart, I put a multimeter on the wires > going to the brushes and found it showing 35VDC. At this point the > control signal to these motors was 2.5V so voltage to the motors should > have been zero. My guess is that the MK motor controller is acting up. But > it is strange that both the vertical controllers would fail. Also, if it > were bad motor controllers, then why did they both start working again. This > is still a head stumper for me. > > Also towards the end of the day, the OTS underwater communication stared > acting up. Base and standby diver using an OTS Guardian full face mask > could hear underwater transmissions from me but I could not receive either > from the diver or from the base. The underwater commns had been working > great for the previous 7 hours. I was also having trouble about this > time with the VHF radio that Alec gave me. Again I could not receive. When > I get a chance I am going to see if the connection to the antenna got > disconnected. > > One of the nice new features of the new HMI besides being larger and > having a higher resolution, was it has built in data logging. So after > the dive it was very nice to be able to download into Excel about 50 > variables logged at a one minute interval. I was able to plot these and get > a detailed picture of how all the ship systems were working during the day. > > If anyone has any thoughts on why the vertical MK 101 thruster motors > failed, or have had any negative experience with the MK101 motor > controllers, I would love to hear them. When they are working, they are > great. > > All in all, I was very happy with the changes but have a few kinks to work > out before I take her out again. Now if I could just find some clear > water to dive in, I would be a happy camper! > > Cliff > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 19:06:41 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 18:06:41 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx In-Reply-To: <55e628ee.49e1440a.4d451.5112@mx.google.com> References: <55e628ee.49e1440a.4d451.5112@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Could be voltage. I did pull the batteries down. I need to go back and recalibrate the voltage sensor. I use this to calulcate the SOC of the main battery bank. I will also go back and check all my battery connections. Cliff On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 5:38 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > All sounds loads of fun Cliff. > > Your problems smell of voltage drop especially after 7 hours. Is it > possible that you have a dry joint or possibly a wet one at the connectors > > Cheers, Hugh > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Wednesday, 2 September 2015 9:41 a.m. > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx > > > > I took the R300 out this weekend. This was the first time to have it back > in water since the 2013 Psub convention in Islamorada. The objective of > the dive was to evaluate some fairly significant modifications. > > > > To improve low speed maneuverability and reduce noise, I junked the jet > pump and ailerons and went to four fixed MK 101 thrusters. I also junked > the VBT and just add ballast to get neutral. Also I added a Garmin AIRMAR > DST800 Smart Sensor to measure altitude, speed and water temperature. It > worked great. Installed a new LED 5k light, upgraded to a new HMI, and > changed the foot and joystick controls. I also rewired the main battery > bank for 36VDC rather than 120VDC and installed four MK 101 motor > controllers. I modified the aft horizontal MK-101s by adding Kort nozzles > and used air to pressure compensate. I used the same pressure reducing > regulator Hugh Fulton posted about awhile back that he is using on the > QSub. The changes decreased the weight of boat by 200 lbs while the > displacement remained the same. > > > > My son, wife, a diving friend and I took the boat to Canyon Lake in Texas > this Sunday. Visibility was less than 5 ft so could not see much. My main > interest at this point was just to get into water. After launching the > boat, I did some testing to get the base line ballast both mid-ship and in > the stern correct so that I could get neutral and trim after flooding the > MBT. After establishing the fixed ballast, I took the boat out to test how > the horizontal thrusters work for surface maneuvering. I was very happy > with way the horizontal thrusters performed. Surface maneuverability was > excellent and these motors are supper quite. I did find that you could > cavitate the props on the surface if you hit it with too much power. As > before the changes, when you get up to about 4 knots, the bow wave obscures > the pilots vision. Breaking is much improved and it is now possible to > rotate on the surface or in the water column. > > > > I then took the boat out for the first submerged maneuvering. The > vertical thrusters were very effective for depth control, pitch and roll > control. I found that it was much easier to get to specific depth and hold > this depth using the vertical thrusters than the old way I did it with the > VBT. They worked great. While removing the VBT simplified dive > operations, it did result in loss of freeboard of about 1 inch. This is a > downside of removing the VBT as the freeboard was already quite low. I > just have to be careful when opening the hatch. I opened and closed that > hatch throughout the day and only took splash one time when a boat came by > I did not see. > > > > The new Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor worked great. With visibility > less than 5 ft, being able to know the altitude was very helpful on dives. > As usual, it got darker as you descend but knowing when the bottom was > coming up was nice. > > > > On the negative side, during the last dive of the day, the vertical > thrusters failed while my son was on bottom in about 27 ft of water. He > had to surface using the MBT. Why these thrusters failed is a mystery. It > was at the end of the day and I had pushed the batteries pretty hard all > day along but we still had plenty of battery voltage. My sons second > attempt to surface was to put some air in the forward MBT to lift the nose > and then use the aft horizontal thrusters to power to the surface. This > failed as aft horizontal thrusters were not responsive. After surfacing > with the MBT, we discovered that tree limb about 1.5? diameter had lodged > in the starboard horizontal thruster between the prop and the Kort nozzle. > This explains why we lost horizontal thrust but not vertical. After > getting the boat back on the trailer, I tested the vertical thrusters. > They would barely turn even when giving them full power. My first guess > was that the air pressure compensation system failed and the thrusters were > full of water. When I got the boat back to my workshop, I disassembled > both vertical thrusters and discovered they were dry. After recharging the > boat, I tried the vertical thrusters again and got the same slow speed > operation. After turning them off and on for about five minutes, the > starboard vertical thruster stared working correctly. I kept switching the > port vertical thruster off and on and all of a sudden, it began working > correctly. When I had the motors apart, I put a multimeter on the wires > going to the brushes and found it showing 35VDC. At this point the control > signal to these motors was 2.5V so voltage to the motors should have been > zero. My guess is that the MK motor controller is acting up. But it is > strange that both the vertical controllers would fail. Also, if it were > bad motor controllers, then why did they both start working again. This is > still a head stumper for me. > > > > Also towards the end of the day, the OTS underwater communication stared > acting up. Base and standby diver using an OTS Guardian full face mask > could hear underwater transmissions from me but I could not receive either > from the diver or from the base. The underwater commns had been working > great for the previous 7 hours. I was also having trouble about this time > with the VHF radio that Alec gave me. Again I could not receive. When I > get a chance I am going to see if the connection to the antenna got > disconnected. > > > > One of the nice new features of the new HMI besides being larger and > having a higher resolution, was it has built in data logging. So after the > dive it was very nice to be able to download into Excel about 50 variables > logged at a one minute interval. I was able to plot these and get a > detailed picture of how all the ship systems were working during the day. > > > > If anyone has any thoughts on why the vertical MK 101 thruster motors > failed, or have had any negative experience with the MK101 motor > controllers, I would love to hear them. When they are working, they are > great. > > > > All in all, I was very happy with the changes but have a few kinks to work > out before I take her out again. Now if I could just find some clear water > to dive in, I would be a happy camper! > > > > Cliff > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 21:39:38 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 21:39:38 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wonderful detailed report Cliff! My theory is a thermal shutdown of the controllers as Hank suggested. Although I have no documentation on their speed controllers, the fact it fixed itself suggests that. But then on the other hand why did it take all that switching on and off to reset? This reinforces my intention to put a speed controller override into the new boat. Best, Alec > On Sep 1, 2015, at 5:40 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I took the R300 out this weekend. This was the first time to have it back in water since the 2013 Psub convention in Islamorada. The objective of the dive was to evaluate some fairly significant modifications. > > To improve low speed maneuverability and reduce noise, I junked the jet pump and ailerons and went to four fixed MK 101 thrusters. I also junked the VBT and just add ballast to get neutral. Also I added a Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor to measure altitude, speed and water temperature. It worked great. Installed a new LED 5k light, upgraded to a new HMI, and changed the foot and joystick controls. I also rewired the main battery bank for 36VDC rather than 120VDC and installed four MK 101 motor controllers. I modified the aft horizontal MK-101s by adding Kort nozzles and used air to pressure compensate. I used the same pressure reducing regulator Hugh Fulton posted about awhile back that he is using on the QSub. The changes decreased the weight of boat by 200 lbs while the displacement remained the same. > > My son, wife, a diving friend and I took the boat to Canyon Lake in Texas this Sunday. Visibility was less than 5 ft so could not see much. My main interest at this point was just to get into water. After launching the boat, I did some testing to get the base line ballast both mid-ship and in the stern correct so that I could get neutral and trim after flooding the MBT. After establishing the fixed ballast, I took the boat out to test how the horizontal thrusters work for surface maneuvering. I was very happy with way the horizontal thrusters performed. Surface maneuverability was excellent and these motors are supper quite. I did find that you could cavitate the props on the surface if you hit it with too much power. As before the changes, when you get up to about 4 knots, the bow wave obscures the pilots vision. Breaking is much improved and it is now possible to rotate on the surface or in the water column. > > I then took the boat out for the first submerged maneuvering. The vertical thrusters were very effective for depth control, pitch and roll control. I found that it was much easier to get to specific depth and hold this depth using the vertical thrusters than the old way I did it with the VBT. They worked great. While removing the VBT simplified dive operations, it did result in loss of freeboard of about 1 inch. This is a downside of removing the VBT as the freeboard was already quite low. I just have to be careful when opening the hatch. I opened and closed that hatch throughout the day and only took splash one time when a boat came by I did not see. > > The new Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor worked great. With visibility less than 5 ft, being able to know the altitude was very helpful on dives. As usual, it got darker as you descend but knowing when the bottom was coming up was nice. > > On the negative side, during the last dive of the day, the vertical thrusters failed while my son was on bottom in about 27 ft of water. He had to surface using the MBT. Why these thrusters failed is a mystery. It was at the end of the day and I had pushed the batteries pretty hard all day along but we still had plenty of battery voltage. My sons second attempt to surface was to put some air in the forward MBT to lift the nose and then use the aft horizontal thrusters to power to the surface. This failed as aft horizontal thrusters were not responsive. After surfacing with the MBT, we discovered that tree limb about 1.5? diameter had lodged in the starboard horizontal thruster between the prop and the Kort nozzle. This explains why we lost horizontal thrust but not vertical. After getting the boat back on the trailer, I tested the vertical thrusters. They would barely turn even when giving them full power. My first guess was that the air pressure compensation system failed and the thrusters were full of water. When I got the boat back to my workshop, I disassembled both vertical thrusters and discovered they were dry. After recharging the boat, I tried the vertical thrusters again and got the same slow speed operation. After turning them off and on for about five minutes, the starboard vertical thruster stared working correctly. I kept switching the port vertical thruster off and on and all of a sudden, it began working correctly. When I had the motors apart, I put a multimeter on the wires going to the brushes and found it showing 35VDC. At this point the control signal to these motors was 2.5V so voltage to the motors should have been zero. My guess is that the MK motor controller is acting up. But it is strange that both the vertical controllers would fail. Also, if it were bad motor controllers, then why did they both start working again. This is still a head stumper for me. > > Also towards the end of the day, the OTS underwater communication stared acting up. Base and standby diver using an OTS Guardian full face mask could hear underwater transmissions from me but I could not receive either from the diver or from the base. The underwater commns had been working great for the previous 7 hours. I was also having trouble about this time with the VHF radio that Alec gave me. Again I could not receive. When I get a chance I am going to see if the connection to the antenna got disconnected. > > One of the nice new features of the new HMI besides being larger and having a higher resolution, was it has built in data logging. So after the dive it was very nice to be able to download into Excel about 50 variables logged at a one minute interval. I was able to plot these and get a detailed picture of how all the ship systems were working during the day. > > If anyone has any thoughts on why the vertical MK 101 thruster motors failed, or have had any negative experience with the MK101 motor controllers, I would love to hear them. When they are working, they are great. > > All in all, I was very happy with the changes but have a few kinks to work out before I take her out again. Now if I could just find some clear water to dive in, I would be a happy camper! > > Cliff > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 22:00:36 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 02:00:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <554131352.110680.1441159236580.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff, How much time lapsed before they fixed themselves? ?maybe they needed encouragement to restart because they were just on cusp of being cooled enough.Hank On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 7:39 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Wonderful detailed report Cliff! My theory is a thermal shutdown of the controllers as Hank suggested. Although I have no documentation on their speed controllers, the fact it fixed itself suggests that. But then on the other hand why did it take all that switching on and off to reset? This reinforces my intention to put a speed controller override into the new boat. Best, Alec On Sep 1, 2015, at 5:40 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Itook the R300 out this weekend.? This wasthe first time to have it back in water since the 2013 Psub convention in Islamorada.? The objective of the dive was to evaluate somefairly significant modifications. Toimprove low speed maneuverability and reduce noise, I junked the jet pump and aileronsand went to four fixed MK 101 thrusters. I also junked the VBT and just add ballastto get neutral. Also I added a Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor to measurealtitude, speed and water temperature.?It worked great.? Installed a newLED 5k light, upgraded to a new HMI, and changed the foot and joystick controls.?I also rewired the main battery bank for36VDC rather than 120VDC and installed four MK 101 motor controllers.? I modified the aft horizontal MK-101s byadding Kort nozzles and used air to pressure compensate.? I used the same pressure reducing regulatorHugh Fulton posted about awhile back that he is using on the QSub.? ??The changesdecreased the weight of boat by 200 lbs while the displacement remained thesame. ??Myson, wife, a diving friend and I took the boat to Canyon Lake in Texas thisSunday.? Visibility was less than 5 ft socould not see much.? My main interest atthis point was just to get into water.? Afterlaunching the boat, I did some testing to get the base line ballast both mid-shipand in the stern correct so that I could get neutral and trim after floodingthe MBT.? After establishing the fixedballast, I took the boat out to test how the horizontal thrusters work forsurface maneuvering. ??I was very happywith way the horizontal thrusters performed. Surface maneuverability wasexcellent and these motors are supper quite.?I did find that you could cavitate the props on the surface if you hitit with too much power. As before the changes, when you get up to about 4knots, the bow wave obscures the pilots vision. ??Breaking is much improved and it is nowpossible to rotate on the surface or in the water column.?Ithen took the boat out for the first submerged maneuvering.? The vertical thrusters were very effectivefor depth control, pitch and roll control. ?I found that it was much easier to get tospecific depth and hold this depth using the vertical thrusters than the oldway I did it with the VBT.? They workedgreat.? While removing the VBT simplifieddive operations, it did result in loss of freeboard of about 1 inch.? This is a downside of removing the VBT as thefreeboard was already quite low.? I just haveto be careful when opening the hatch.? Iopened and closed that hatch throughout the day and only took splash one timewhen a boat came by I did not see.?Thenew Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor worked great. With visibility less than 5ft, being able to know the altitude was very helpful on dives. As usual, it gotdarker as you descend but knowing when the bottom was coming up was nice.? ?Onthe negative side, during the last dive of the day, the vertical thrustersfailed while my son was on bottom in about 27 ft of water.? He had to surface using the MBT. Why thesethrusters failed is a mystery. ?It was atthe end of the day and I had pushed the batteries pretty hard all day along butwe still had plenty of battery voltage.??My sons second attempt to surfacewas to put some air in the forward MBT to lift the nose and then use the aft horizontalthrusters to power to the surface.? Thisfailed as aft horizontal thrusters were not responsive.? After surfacing with the MBT, we discoveredthat tree limb about 1.5? diameter had lodged in the starboard horizontal thrusterbetween the prop and the Kort nozzle.?This explains why we lost horizontal thrust but not vertical.? After getting the boat back on the trailer, Itested the vertical thrusters.? Theywould barely turn even when giving them full power.? My first guess was that the air pressure compensationsystem failed and the thrusters were full of water.? When I got the boat back to my workshop, Idisassembled both vertical thrusters and discovered they were dry. After rechargingthe boat, I tried the vertical thrusters again and got the same slow speedoperation.? After turning them off and onfor about five minutes, the starboard vertical thruster stared workingcorrectly.? I kept switching the portvertical thruster off and on and all of a sudden, it began working correctly.? When I had the motors apart, I put amultimeter on the wires going to the brushes and found it showing 35VDC.? At this point the control signal to thesemotors was 2.5V so voltage to the motors should have been zero.?? My guess is that the MK motor controller isacting up.? But it is strange that boththe vertical controllers would fail.?Also, if it were? bad motor controllers, then why did they both start workingagain.? This is still a head stumper forme.??Alsotowards the end of the day, the OTS underwater communication stared acting up.? Base and standby diver using an OTS Guardianfull face mask could hear underwater transmissions from me but I could notreceive either from the diver or from the base.?The underwater commns had been working great for the previous 7 hours.? ?I wasalso having trouble about this time with the VHF radio that Alec gave me.? Again I could not receive.? When I get a chance I am going to see if theconnection to the antenna got disconnected.?Oneof the nice new features of the new HMI besides being larger and having a higherresolution, was it has built in data logging.?So after the dive it was very nice to be able to download into Excel about50 variables logged at a one minute interval. I was able to plot these and geta detailed picture of how all the ship systems were working during the day.?Ifanyone has any thoughts on why the vertical MK 101 thruster motors failed, orhave had any negative experience with the MK101 motor controllers, I would loveto hear them.? When they are working, theyare great.?Allin all, I was very happy with the changes but have a few kinks to work outbefore I take her out again.? Now if I could just find some clear water to dive in, I would be a happy camper! Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 22:13:43 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 02:13:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1866454924.122821.1441160023443.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Cliff,thanks for the report.Perhaps the motors got really hot & siezed a bit. Just adding some oil to the systemwould help that a lot if that were the case. The beauty of the compensating system you have is that youcan easily do that.There may be more current draw on the?vertical thrusters as they are trying to push the?sub sideways through the water & hence more heat or an over current situation.?Some controllers have overcurrent protection.Moving from forward to reverse rapidly mightn't help.Let us know if you come up with an answer.Alan From: Private via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2015 1:39 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx Wonderful detailed report Cliff! My theory is a thermal shutdown of the controllers as Hank suggested. Although I have no documentation on their speed controllers, the fact it fixed itself suggests that. But then on the other hand why did it take all that switching on and off to reset? This reinforces my intention to put a speed controller override into the new boat. Best, Alec On Sep 1, 2015, at 5:40 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Itook the R300 out this weekend.? This wasthe first time to have it back in water since the 2013 Psub convention in Islamorada.? The objective of the dive was to evaluate somefairly significant modifications. Toimprove low speed maneuverability and reduce noise, I junked the jet pump and aileronsand went to four fixed MK 101 thrusters. I also junked the VBT and just add ballastto get neutral. Also I added a Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor to measurealtitude, speed and water temperature.?It worked great.? Installed a newLED 5k light, upgraded to a new HMI, and changed the foot and joystick controls.?I also rewired the main battery bank for36VDC rather than 120VDC and installed four MK 101 motor controllers.? I modified the aft horizontal MK-101s byadding Kort nozzles and used air to pressure compensate.? I used the same pressure reducing regulatorHugh Fulton posted about awhile back that he is using on the QSub.? ??The changesdecreased the weight of boat by 200 lbs while the displacement remained thesame. ??Myson, wife, a diving friend and I took the boat to Canyon Lake in Texas thisSunday.? Visibility was less than 5 ft socould not see much.? My main interest atthis point was just to get into water.? Afterlaunching the boat, I did some testing to get the base line ballast both mid-shipand in the stern correct so that I could get neutral and trim after floodingthe MBT.? After establishing the fixedballast, I took the boat out to test how the horizontal thrusters work forsurface maneuvering. ??I was very happywith way the horizontal thrusters performed. Surface maneuverability wasexcellent and these motors are supper quite.?I did find that you could cavitate the props on the surface if you hitit with too much power. As before the changes, when you get up to about 4knots, the bow wave obscures the pilots vision. ??Breaking is much improved and it is nowpossible to rotate on the surface or in the water column.?Ithen took the boat out for the first submerged maneuvering.? The vertical thrusters were very effectivefor depth control, pitch and roll control. ?I found that it was much easier to get tospecific depth and hold this depth using the vertical thrusters than the oldway I did it with the VBT.? They workedgreat.? While removing the VBT simplifieddive operations, it did result in loss of freeboard of about 1 inch.? This is a downside of removing the VBT as thefreeboard was already quite low.? I just haveto be careful when opening the hatch.? Iopened and closed that hatch throughout the day and only took splash one timewhen a boat came by I did not see.?Thenew Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor worked great. With visibility less than 5ft, being able to know the altitude was very helpful on dives. As usual, it gotdarker as you descend but knowing when the bottom was coming up was nice.? ?Onthe negative side, during the last dive of the day, the vertical thrustersfailed while my son was on bottom in about 27 ft of water.? He had to surface using the MBT. Why thesethrusters failed is a mystery. ?It was atthe end of the day and I had pushed the batteries pretty hard all day along butwe still had plenty of battery voltage.??My sons second attempt to surfacewas to put some air in the forward MBT to lift the nose and then use the aft horizontalthrusters to power to the surface.? Thisfailed as aft horizontal thrusters were not responsive.? After surfacing with the MBT, we discoveredthat tree limb about 1.5? diameter had lodged in the starboard horizontal thrusterbetween the prop and the Kort nozzle.?This explains why we lost horizontal thrust but not vertical.? After getting the boat back on the trailer, Itested the vertical thrusters.? Theywould barely turn even when giving them full power.? My first guess was that the air pressure compensationsystem failed and the thrusters were full of water.? When I got the boat back to my workshop, Idisassembled both vertical thrusters and discovered they were dry. After rechargingthe boat, I tried the vertical thrusters again and got the same slow speedoperation.? After turning them off and onfor about five minutes, the starboard vertical thruster stared workingcorrectly.? I kept switching the portvertical thruster off and on and all of a sudden, it began working correctly.? When I had the motors apart, I put amultimeter on the wires going to the brushes and found it showing 35VDC.? At this point the control signal to thesemotors was 2.5V so voltage to the motors should have been zero.?? My guess is that the MK motor controller isacting up.? But it is strange that boththe vertical controllers would fail.?Also, if it were? bad motor controllers, then why did they both start workingagain.? This is still a head stumper forme.??Alsotowards the end of the day, the OTS underwater communication stared acting up.? Base and standby diver using an OTS Guardianfull face mask could hear underwater transmissions from me but I could notreceive either from the diver or from the base.?The underwater commns had been working great for the previous 7 hours.? ?I wasalso having trouble about this time with the VHF radio that Alec gave me.? Again I could not receive.? When I get a chance I am going to see if theconnection to the antenna got disconnected.?Oneof the nice new features of the new HMI besides being larger and having a higherresolution, was it has built in data logging.?So after the dive it was very nice to be able to download into Excel about50 variables logged at a one minute interval. I was able to plot these and geta detailed picture of how all the ship systems were working during the day.?Ifanyone has any thoughts on why the vertical MK 101 thruster motors failed, orhave had any negative experience with the MK101 motor controllers, I would loveto hear them.? When they are working, theyare great.?Allin all, I was very happy with the changes but have a few kinks to work outbefore I take her out again.? Now if I could just find some clear water to dive in, I would be a happy camper! Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 22:21:22 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 21:21:22 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx In-Reply-To: <554131352.110680.1441159236580.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <554131352.110680.1441159236580.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: They shut down at about 3 PM on Sunday. I disassembled them today expecting them to be filled with water but they were dry. I reassembled today. I charged the batteries up last night so they were full charged this morning. When I powered the thrusters up today, the were at ambient temperature and the controllers had been sitting all night so they were cool. The thrusters started up misbehaving like they did when they shut down, i.e., would not spin up. After playing with them for about 10 minutes they both came back to life a few minutes apart. They have been running fine ever since. Cliff On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 9:00 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, How much time lapsed before they fixed themselves? maybe they > needed encouragement to restart because they were just on cusp of being > cooled enough. > Hank > > > > On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 7:39 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Wonderful detailed report Cliff! My theory is a thermal shutdown of the > controllers as Hank suggested. Although I have no documentation on their > speed controllers, the fact it fixed itself suggests that. But then on the > other hand why did it take all that switching on and off to reset? > > This reinforces my intention to put a speed controller override into the > new boat. > > Best, > > Alec > > > > On Sep 1, 2015, at 5:40 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I took the R300 out this weekend. This was the first time to have it > back in water since the 2013 Psub convention in Islamorada. The > objective of the dive was to evaluate some fairly significant modifications. > > To improve low speed maneuverability and reduce noise, I junked the jet > pump and ailerons and went to four fixed MK 101 thrusters. I also junked > the VBT and just add ballast to get neutral. Also I added a Garmin AIRMAR > DST800 Smart Sensor to measure altitude, speed and water temperature. It > worked great. Installed a new LED 5k light, upgraded to a new HMI, and > changed the foot and joystick controls. I also rewired the main battery > bank for 36VDC rather than 120VDC and installed four MK 101 motor > controllers. I modified the aft horizontal MK-101s by adding Kort > nozzles and used air to pressure compensate. I used the same pressure > reducing regulator Hugh Fulton posted about awhile back that he is using on > the QSub. The changes decreased the weight of boat by 200 lbs while > the displacement remained the same. > > My son, wife, a diving friend and I took the boat to Canyon Lake in Texas > this Sunday. Visibility was less than 5 ft so could not see much. My > main interest at this point was just to get into water. After launching > the boat, I did some testing to get the base line ballast both mid-ship and > in the stern correct so that I could get neutral and trim after flooding > the MBT. After establishing the fixed ballast, I took the boat out to > test how the horizontal thrusters work for surface maneuvering. I was > very happy with way the horizontal thrusters performed. Surface > maneuverability was excellent and these motors are supper quite. I did > find that you could cavitate the props on the surface if you hit it with > too much power. As before the changes, when you get up to about 4 knots, > the bow wave obscures the pilots vision. Breaking is much improved and > it is now possible to rotate on the surface or in the water column. > > I then took the boat out for the first submerged maneuvering. The > vertical thrusters were very effective for depth control, pitch and roll > control. I found that it was much easier to get to specific depth and > hold this depth using the vertical thrusters than the old way I did it with > the VBT. They worked great. While removing the VBT simplified dive > operations, it did result in loss of freeboard of about 1 inch. This is > a downside of removing the VBT as the freeboard was already quite low. I > just have to be careful when opening the hatch. I opened and closed that > hatch throughout the day and only took splash one time when a boat came by > I did not see. > > The new Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor worked great. With visibility > less than 5 ft, being able to know the altitude was very helpful on dives. > As usual, it got darker as you descend but knowing when the bottom was > coming up was nice. > > On the negative side, during the last dive of the day, the vertical > thrusters failed while my son was on bottom in about 27 ft of water. He > had to surface using the MBT. Why these thrusters failed is a mystery. It > was at the end of the day and I had pushed the batteries pretty hard all > day along but we still had plenty of battery voltage. My sons second > attempt to surface was to put some air in the forward MBT to lift the nose > and then use the aft horizontal thrusters to power to the surface. This > failed as aft horizontal thrusters were not responsive. After surfacing > with the MBT, we discovered that tree limb about 1.5? diameter had lodged > in the starboard horizontal thruster between the prop and the Kort nozzle. > This explains why we lost horizontal thrust but not vertical. After > getting the boat back on the trailer, I tested the vertical thrusters. They > would barely turn even when giving them full power. My first guess was > that the air pressure compensation system failed and the thrusters were > full of water. When I got the boat back to my workshop, I disassembled > both vertical thrusters and discovered they were dry. After recharging the > boat, I tried the vertical thrusters again and got the same slow speed > operation. After turning them off and on for about five minutes, the > starboard vertical thruster stared working correctly. I kept switching > the port vertical thruster off and on and all of a sudden, it began working > correctly. When I had the motors apart, I put a multimeter on the wires > going to the brushes and found it showing 35VDC. At this point the > control signal to these motors was 2.5V so voltage to the motors should > have been zero. My guess is that the MK motor controller is acting up. But > it is strange that both the vertical controllers would fail. Also, if it > were bad motor controllers, then why did they both start working again. This > is still a head stumper for me. > > Also towards the end of the day, the OTS underwater communication stared > acting up. Base and standby diver using an OTS Guardian full face mask > could hear underwater transmissions from me but I could not receive either > from the diver or from the base. The underwater commns had been working > great for the previous 7 hours. I was also having trouble about this > time with the VHF radio that Alec gave me. Again I could not receive. When > I get a chance I am going to see if the connection to the antenna got > disconnected. > > One of the nice new features of the new HMI besides being larger and > having a higher resolution, was it has built in data logging. So after > the dive it was very nice to be able to download into Excel about 50 > variables logged at a one minute interval. I was able to plot these and get > a detailed picture of how all the ship systems were working during the day. > > If anyone has any thoughts on why the vertical MK 101 thruster motors > failed, or have had any negative experience with the MK101 motor > controllers, I would love to hear them. When they are working, they are > great. > > All in all, I was very happy with the changes but have a few kinks to work > out before I take her out again. Now if I could just find some clear > water to dive in, I would be a happy camper! > > Cliff > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 22:38:01 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 02:38:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense In-Reply-To: <1678100599.3760361.1441063258448.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2143753028.3729423.1441061504971.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1678100599.3760361.1441063258448.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1103576640.117439.1441161481935.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,all,went & saw a friend who is an expert on LEDs today.He runs 9 million LEDs at a time on sports ground advertising displays,travels to China to buy them etc.He said it would be fine to put the constant current LED driver in the hull?& have just the LED in the light housing. He suggested using sheilded cable,as the pulsing current to the LED produces a lot of electrical noise. This isonly required if there is other equipment on board that it might interfere with.? ?This seems a great way to do it because the driver produces a bit of heat,?& it?would reduce the effect of conbined heat sources in the one housing.Also the back of the emitter that generates most heat could be heat sinkedstraight on to the back of the light housing. The wiring would have to come in?from the side to do this.?? ?He advised backing off the current & not driving them hard if I wanted them to last.He had a commercially available light fitting with a 10,000 lumen emitter in it sitting round(out of water use) it had a huge amount of heat sinks out the back of it.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense Alan,Why can't the driver stay inside the submarine, why put it in the housing?Hank On Monday, August 31, 2015 4:55 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,you have got me thinking. I don't want to pressure compensate because of the capacitorsin the driver. I was also concerned that any fluid might yellow with the heat.According to this article, the main problem with LED lights is disipating the heat that comesout the back of the emmitter.http://www.deepsea.com/wp-content/uploads/article-Application-of-High-Power-LEDs-UI08.pdf I could seal off the driver compartment at the back of the emmitter & fill that with oil. HoweverI will be machining this out of alluminium rod & can keep the enclosure round the driver pretty smallso there isn't much of an air gap to the housing.Could easily experiment with & without oil to see if it makes much difference.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense Alan,I assume your going with a?pressure housing? ?why not fill the pressure housing 95% full of oil to tsf the heat to the water?Hank On Monday, August 31, 2015 4:00 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sorry part 2 ( ipad & big fingers)The LED cost $11- & the driver $6-. ?Free delivery.I have ordered a number of reflectors for a couple of dollars each.The driver is quite small. With the automated assembly processes& micro sized components, you can't get anywhere near this sizesoldering on the components yourself.Because of the heat factor I am limiting myself to the 6000lm LED.Will be looking at the beam angle I get from these reflectors & available glass?lenses, before making up a housing. Looking for a borosilicate lensebecause of the heat transfer & low expansion.I have taken a different route from Ken, but this process he started hasbeen very helpful & motivating, as has been the discussion & informationthat has come out.?Alan Sent from my iPad On 1/09/2015, at 9:42 am, Alan wrote: I bought a 24-36V 6000 lm & 4000 lm LED array along with drivers,?& have another lot in the post.The driv Sent from my iPad On 1/09/2015, at 4:09 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ken is in Ireland on a holiday but before he left, he had finished the design of the LED Driver power stage.? Still working on the housing but have been sidetracked the last month on getting my boat ready to dive after major upgraded over the last 18 months.?Hope to get back on the Light housing shortly.? I did dive the new 5K LED light this weekend and it worked great. Cliff On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 8:09 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: What has happened with the light build? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 22:48:28 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 02:48:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx In-Reply-To: References: <554131352.110680.1441159236580.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2030763094.132379.1441162108810.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> That's real weird Cliff, especially the fact that 2 separate unitsare playing up. The only common denominator is the batteries I suppose.Are they both drawing from the same batteries?Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2015 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx They shut down at about?3 PM on Sunday.? I disassembled them today expecting them to be filled with water but they were dry.? I reassembled today.?I charged the batteries up last night so they were full charged this morning.? ?When I powered the thrusters up today, the were at ambient temperature and the controllers had been sitting all night so they were cool.? The thrusters started up misbehaving like they did when they shut down, i.e., would not spin up.? After playing with them for about 10 minutes they both came back to life a few minutes apart.? They have been running fine ever since. Cliff On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 9:00 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, How much time lapsed before they fixed themselves? ?maybe they needed encouragement to restart because they were just on cusp of being cooled enough.Hank On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 7:39 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Wonderful detailed report Cliff! My theory is a thermal shutdown of the controllers as Hank suggested. Although I have no documentation on their speed controllers, the fact it fixed itself suggests that. But then on the other hand why did it take all that switching on and off to reset? This reinforces my intention to put a speed controller override into the new boat. Best, Alec On Sep 1, 2015, at 5:40 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Itook the R300 out this weekend.? This wasthe first time to have it back in water since the 2013 Psub convention in Islamorada.? The objective of the dive was to evaluate somefairly significant modifications. Toimprove low speed maneuverability and reduce noise, I junked the jet pump and aileronsand went to four fixed MK 101 thrusters. I also junked the VBT and just add ballastto get neutral. Also I added a Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor to measurealtitude, speed and water temperature.?It worked great.? Installed a newLED 5k light, upgraded to a new HMI, and changed the foot and joystick controls.?I also rewired the main battery bank for36VDC rather than 120VDC and installed four MK 101 motor controllers.? I modified the aft horizontal MK-101s byadding Kort nozzles and used air to pressure compensate.? I used the same pressure reducing regulatorHugh Fulton posted about awhile back that he is using on the QSub.? ??The changesdecreased the weight of boat by 200 lbs while the displacement remained thesame. ??Myson, wife, a diving friend and I took the boat to Canyon Lake in Texas thisSunday.? Visibility was less than 5 ft socould not see much.? My main interest atthis point was just to get into water.? Afterlaunching the boat, I did some testing to get the base line ballast both mid-shipand in the stern correct so that I could get neutral and trim after floodingthe MBT.? After establishing the fixedballast, I took the boat out to test how the horizontal thrusters work forsurface maneuvering. ??I was very happywith way the horizontal thrusters performed. Surface maneuverability wasexcellent and these motors are supper quite.?I did find that you could cavitate the props on the surface if you hitit with too much power. As before the changes, when you get up to about 4knots, the bow wave obscures the pilots vision. ??Breaking is much improved and it is nowpossible to rotate on the surface or in the water column.?Ithen took the boat out for the first submerged maneuvering.? The vertical thrusters were very effectivefor depth control, pitch and roll control. ?I found that it was much easier to get tospecific depth and hold this depth using the vertical thrusters than the oldway I did it with the VBT.? They workedgreat.? While removing the VBT simplifieddive operations, it did result in loss of freeboard of about 1 inch.? This is a downside of removing the VBT as thefreeboard was already quite low.? I just haveto be careful when opening the hatch.? Iopened and closed that hatch throughout the day and only took splash one timewhen a boat came by I did not see.?Thenew Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor worked great. With visibility less than 5ft, being able to know the altitude was very helpful on dives. As usual, it gotdarker as you descend but knowing when the bottom was coming up was nice.? ?Onthe negative side, during the last dive of the day, the vertical thrustersfailed while my son was on bottom in about 27 ft of water.? He had to surface using the MBT. Why thesethrusters failed is a mystery. ?It was atthe end of the day and I had pushed the batteries pretty hard all day along butwe still had plenty of battery voltage.??My sons second attempt to surfacewas to put some air in the forward MBT to lift the nose and then use the aft horizontalthrusters to power to the surface.? Thisfailed as aft horizontal thrusters were not responsive.? After surfacing with the MBT, we discoveredthat tree limb about 1.5? diameter had lodged in the starboard horizontal thrusterbetween the prop and the Kort nozzle.?This explains why we lost horizontal thrust but not vertical.? After getting the boat back on the trailer, Itested the vertical thrusters.? Theywould barely turn even when giving them full power.? My first guess was that the air pressure compensationsystem failed and the thrusters were full of water.? When I got the boat back to my workshop, Idisassembled both vertical thrusters and discovered they were dry. After rechargingthe boat, I tried the vertical thrusters again and got the same slow speedoperation.? After turning them off and onfor about five minutes, the starboard vertical thruster stared workingcorrectly.? I kept switching the portvertical thruster off and on and all of a sudden, it began working correctly.? When I had the motors apart, I put amultimeter on the wires going to the brushes and found it showing 35VDC.? At this point the control signal to thesemotors was 2.5V so voltage to the motors should have been zero.?? My guess is that the MK motor controller isacting up.? But it is strange that boththe vertical controllers would fail.?Also, if it were? bad motor controllers, then why did they both start workingagain.? This is still a head stumper forme.??Alsotowards the end of the day, the OTS underwater communication stared acting up.? Base and standby diver using an OTS Guardianfull face mask could hear underwater transmissions from me but I could notreceive either from the diver or from the base.?The underwater commns had been working great for the previous 7 hours.? ?I wasalso having trouble about this time with the VHF radio that Alec gave me.? Again I could not receive.? When I get a chance I am going to see if theconnection to the antenna got disconnected.?Oneof the nice new features of the new HMI besides being larger and having a higherresolution, was it has built in data logging.?So after the dive it was very nice to be able to download into Excel about50 variables logged at a one minute interval. I was able to plot these and geta detailed picture of how all the ship systems were working during the day.?Ifanyone has any thoughts on why the vertical MK 101 thruster motors failed, orhave had any negative experience with the MK101 motor controllers, I would loveto hear them.? When they are working, theyare great.?Allin all, I was very happy with the changes but have a few kinks to work outbefore I take her out again.? Now if I could just find some clear water to dive in, I would be a happy camper! Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 2 08:04:36 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 07:04:36 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx In-Reply-To: <2030763094.132379.1441162108810.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <554131352.110680.1441159236580.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <2030763094.132379.1441162108810.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes, same battery. On Tuesday, September 1, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > That's real weird Cliff, especially the fact that 2 separate units > are playing up. The only common denominator is the batteries I suppose. > Are they both drawing from the same batteries? > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 2, 2015 2:21 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx > > They shut down at about 3 PM on Sunday. I disassembled them today > expecting them to be filled with water but they were dry. I reassembled > today. I charged the batteries up last night so they were full charged this > morning. When I powered the thrusters up today, the were at ambient > temperature and the controllers had been sitting all night so they were > cool. The thrusters started up misbehaving like they did when they shut > down, i.e., would not spin up. After playing with them for about 10 > minutes they both came back to life a few minutes apart. They have been > running fine ever since. > > Cliff > > > > On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 9:00 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > > > Cliff, How much time lapsed before they fixed themselves? maybe they > needed encouragement to restart because they were just on cusp of being > cooled enough. > Hank > > > > On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 7:39 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > > Wonderful detailed report Cliff! My theory is a thermal shutdown of the > controllers as Hank suggested. Although I have no documentation on their > speed controllers, the fact it fixed itself suggests that. But then on the > other hand why did it take all that switching on and off to reset? > > This reinforces my intention to put a speed controller override into the > new boat. > > Best, > > Alec > > > > On Sep 1, 2015, at 5:40 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > I took the R300 out this weekend. This was the first time to have it > back in water since the 2013 Psub convention in Islamorada. The > objective of the dive was to evaluate some fairly significant modifications. > > To improve low speed maneuverability and reduce noise, I junked the jet > pump and ailerons and went to four fixed MK 101 thrusters. I also junked > the VBT and just add ballast to get neutral. Also I added a Garmin AIRMAR > DST800 Smart Sensor to measure altitude, speed and water temperature. It > worked great. Installed a new LED 5k light, upgraded to a new HMI, and > changed the foot and joystick controls. I also rewired the main battery > bank for 36VDC rather than 120VDC and installed four MK 101 motor > controllers. I modified the aft horizontal MK-101s by adding Kort > nozzles and used air to pressure compensate. I used the same pressure > reducing regulator Hugh Fulton posted about awhile back that he is using on > the QSub. The changes decreased the weight of boat by 200 lbs while > the displacement remained the same. > > My son, wife, a diving friend and I took the boat to Canyon Lake in Texas > this Sunday. Visibility was less than 5 ft so could not see much. My > main interest at this point was just to get into water. After launching > the boat, I did some testing to get the base line ballast both mid-ship and > in the stern correct so that I could get neutral and trim after flooding > the MBT. After establishing the fixed ballast, I took the boat out to > test how the horizontal thrusters work for surface maneuvering. I was > very happy with way the horizontal thrusters performed. Surface > maneuverability was excellent and these motors are supper quite. I did > find that you could cavitate the props on the surface if you hit it with > too much power. As before the changes, when you get up to about 4 knots, > the bow wave obscures the pilots vision. Breaking is much improved and > it is now possible to rotate on the surface or in the water column. > > I then took the boat out for the first submerged maneuvering. The > vertical thrusters were very effective for depth control, pitch and roll > control. I found that it was much easier to get to specific depth and > hold this depth using the vertical thrusters than the old way I did it with > the VBT. They worked great. While removing the VBT simplified dive > operations, it did result in loss of freeboard of about 1 inch. This is > a downside of removing the VBT as the freeboard was already quite low. I > just have to be careful when opening the hatch. I opened and closed that > hatch throughout the day and only took splash one time when a boat came by > I did not see. > > The new Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor worked great. With visibility > less than 5 ft, being able to know the altitude was very helpful on dives. > As usual, it got darker as you descend but knowing when the bottom was > coming up was nice. > > On the negative side, during the last dive of the day, the vertical > thrusters failed while my son was on bottom in about 27 ft of water. He > had to surface using the MBT. Why these thrusters failed is a mystery. It > was at the end of the day and I had pushed the batteries pretty hard all > day along but we still had plenty of battery voltage. My sons second > attempt to surface was to put some air in the forward MBT to lift the nose > and then use the aft horizontal thrusters to power to the surface. This > failed as aft horizontal thrusters were not responsive. After surfacing > with the MBT, we discovered that tree limb about 1.5? diameter had lodged > in the starboard horizontal thruster between the prop and the Kort nozzle. > This explains why we lost horizontal thrust but not vertical. After > getting the boat back on the trailer, I tested the vertical thrusters. They > would barely turn even when giving them full power. My first guess was > that the air pressure compensation system failed and the thrusters were > full of water. When I got the boat back to my workshop, I disassembled > both vertical thrusters and discovered they were dry. After recharging the > boat, I tried the vertical thrusters again and got the same slow speed > operation. After turning them off and on for about five minutes, the > starboard vertical thruster stared working correctly. I kept switching > the port vertical thruster off and on and all of a sudden, it began working > correctly. When I had the motors apart, I put a multimeter on the wires > going to the brushes and found it showing 35VDC. At this point the > control signal to these motors was 2.5V so voltage to the motors should > have been zero. My guess is that the MK motor controller is acting up. But > it is strange that both the vertical controllers would fail. Also, if it > were bad motor controllers, then why did they both start working again. This > is still a head stumper for me. > > Also towards the end of the day, the OTS underwater communication stared > acting up. Base and standby diver using an OTS Guardian full face mask > could hear underwater transmissions from me but I could not receive either > from the diver or from the base. The underwater commns had been working > great for the previous 7 hours. I was also having trouble about this > time with the VHF radio that Alec gave me. Again I could not receive. When > I get a chance I am going to see if the connection to the antenna got > disconnected. > > One of the nice new features of the new HMI besides being larger and > having a higher resolution, was it has built in data logging. So after > the dive it was very nice to be able to download into Excel about 50 > variables logged at a one minute interval. I was able to plot these and get > a detailed picture of how all the ship systems were working during the day. > > If anyone has any thoughts on why the vertical MK 101 thruster motors > failed, or have had any negative experience with the MK101 motor > controllers, I would love to hear them. When they are working, they are > great. > > All in all, I was very happy with the changes but have a few kinks to work > out before I take her out again. Now if I could just find some clear > water to dive in, I would be a happy camper! > > Cliff > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 2 08:19:06 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 12:19:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1042958606.274833.1441196346931.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,?Agreed, I carry a bypass cable to power up my motor in case the controller quits. ?Bypass switch is a must!Hank On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 6:04 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, same battery. On Tuesday, September 1, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That's real weird Cliff, especially the fact that 2 separate unitsare playing up. The only common denominator is the batteries I suppose.Are they both drawing from the same batteries?Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2015 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx They shut down at about?3 PM on Sunday.? I disassembled them today expecting them to be filled with water but they were dry.? I reassembled today.?I charged the batteries up last night so they were full charged this morning.? ?When I powered the thrusters up today, the were at ambient temperature and the controllers had been sitting all night so they were cool.? The thrusters started up misbehaving like they did when they shut down, i.e., would not spin up.? After playing with them for about 10 minutes they both came back to life a few minutes apart.? They have been running fine ever since. Cliff On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 9:00 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, How much time lapsed before they fixed themselves? ?maybe they needed encouragement to restart because they were just on cusp of being cooled enough.Hank On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 7:39 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Wonderful detailed report Cliff! My theory is a thermal shutdown of the controllers as Hank suggested. Although I have no documentation on their speed controllers, the fact it fixed itself suggests that. But then on the other hand why did it take all that switching on and off to reset? This reinforces my intention to put a speed controller override into the new boat. Best, Alec On Sep 1, 2015, at 5:40 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Itook the R300 out this weekend.? This wasthe first time to have it back in water since the 2013 Psub convention in Islamorada.? The objective of the dive was to evaluate somefairly significant modifications. Toimprove low speed maneuverability and reduce noise, I junked the jet pump and aileronsand went to four fixed MK 101 thrusters. I also junked the VBT and just add ballastto get neutral. Also I added a Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor to measurealtitude, speed and water temperature.?It worked great.? Installed a newLED 5k light, upgraded to a new HMI, and changed the foot and joystick controls.?I also rewired the main battery bank for36VDC rather than 120VDC and installed four MK 101 motor controllers.? I modified the aft horizontal MK-101s byadding Kort nozzles and used air to pressure compensate.? I used the same pressure reducing regulatorHugh Fulton posted about awhile back that he is using on the QSub.? ??The changesdecreased the weight of boat by 200 lbs while the displacement remained thesame. ??Myson, wife, a diving friend and I took the boat to Canyon Lake in Texas thisSunday.? Visibility was less than 5 ft socould not see much.? My main interest atthis point was just to get into water.? Afterlaunching the boat, I did some testing to get the base line ballast both mid-shipand in the stern correct so that I could get neutral and trim after floodingthe MBT.? After establishing the fixedballast, I took the boat out to test how the horizontal thrusters work forsurface maneuvering. ??I was very happywith way the horizontal thrusters performed. Surface maneuverability wasexcellent and these motors are supper quite.?I did find that you could cavitate the props on the surface if you hitit with too much power. As before the changes, when you get up to about 4knots, the bow wave obscures the pilots vision. ??Breaking is much improved and it is nowpossible to rotate on the surface or in the water column.?Ithen took the boat out for the first submerged maneuvering.? The vertical thrusters were very effectivefor depth control, pitch and roll control. ?I found that it was much easier to get tospecific depth and hold this depth using the vertical thrusters than the oldway I did it with the VBT.? They workedgreat.? While removing the VBT simplifieddive operations, it did result in loss of freeboard of about 1 inch.? This is a downside of removing the VBT as thefreeboard was already quite low.? I just haveto be careful when opening the hatch.? Iopened and closed that hatch throughout the day and only took splash one timewhen a boat came by I did not see.?Thenew Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor worked great. With visibility less than 5ft, being able to know the altitude was very helpful on dives. As usual, it gotdarker as you descend but knowing when the bottom was coming up was nice.? ?Onthe negative side, during the last dive of the day, the vertical thrustersfailed while my son was on bottom in about 27 ft of water.? He had to surface using the MBT. Why thesethrusters failed is a mystery. ?It was atthe end of the day and I had pushed the batteries pretty hard all day along butwe still had plenty of battery voltage.??My sons second attempt to surfacewas to put some air in the forward MBT to lift the nose and then use the aft horizontalthrusters to power to the surface.? Thisfailed as aft horizontal thrusters were not responsive.? After surfacing with the MBT, we discoveredthat tree limb about 1.5? diameter had lodged in the starboard horizontal thrusterbetween the prop and the Kort nozzle.?This explains why we lost horizontal thrust but not vertical.? After getting the boat back on the trailer, Itested the vertical thrusters.? Theywould barely turn even when giving them full power.? My first guess was that the air pressure compensationsystem failed and the thrusters were full of water.? When I got the boat back to my workshop, Idisassembled both vertical thrusters and discovered they were dry. After rechargingthe boat, I tried the vertical thrusters again and got the same slow speedoperation.? After turning them off and onfor about five minutes, the starboard vertical thruster stared workingcorrectly.? I kept switching the portvertical thruster off and on and all of a sudden, it began working correctly.? When I had the motors apart, I put amultimeter on the wires going to the brushes and found it showing 35VDC.? At this point the control signal to thesemotors was 2.5V so voltage to the motors should have been zero.?? My guess is that the MK motor controller isacting up.? But it is strange that boththe vertical controllers would fail.?Also, if it were? bad motor controllers, then why did they both start workingagain.? This is still a head stumper forme.??Alsotowards the end of the day, the OTS underwater communication stared acting up.? Base and standby diver using an OTS Guardianfull face mask could hear underwater transmissions from me but I could notreceive either from the diver or from the base.?The underwater commns had been working great for the previous 7 hours.? ?I wasalso having trouble about this time with the VHF radio that Alec gave me.? Again I could not receive.? When I get a chance I am going to see if theconnection to the antenna got disconnected.?Oneof the nice new features of the new HMI besides being larger and having a higherresolution, was it has built in data logging.?So after the dive it was very nice to be able to download into Excel about50 variables logged at a one minute interval. I was able to plot these and geta detailed picture of how all the ship systems were working during the day.?Ifanyone has any thoughts on why the vertical MK 101 thruster motors failed, orhave had any negative experience with the MK101 motor controllers, I would loveto hear them.? When they are working, theyare great.?Allin all, I was very happy with the changes but have a few kinks to work outbefore I take her out again.? Now if I could just find some clear water to dive in, I would be a happy camper! Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 2 16:39:06 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 16:39:06 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Driver In-Reply-To: <994134746.6326020.1439899330736.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <994134746.6326020.1439899330736.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00e201d0e5bf$69fda850$3df8f8f0$@cfl.rr.com> I looked at this chip and it?s primarily a buck voltage regulator not intended for use as a constant current LED driver. You can try using it but I?m not optimistic about them. Let me know if it works. Ken Martindale From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 8:02 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Driver Bought this LED driver & a 4000 & 6000 lumen emitter. It may be helpful with regard to our open source light. This one describes itself as having a wattage output limitation, beyond which cooling is required. This may be just a heat sink but I'm not sure. There are other higher powered constant voltage, constant current drivers on site. There was no description of how it worked with the product, but managed to find one on the site posted at the bottom. The blue trim-pot on the left increases voltage by a clockwise turning & the right trim-pot increases current. Alan LED Power Driver Constant Voltage / Current Adjustable Module - Blue + Black LED Power Driver Constant Voltage / Current Adjustable... I like this from DX. Find the cool gadgets at a incredibly low price with worldwide free shipping here. View on www.dx.com Preview by Yahoo 1~35V DC 25W Power LED Driver Supply LM2596 CC CV Light [Constant Voltage Current_A] - $15.00 : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce 1~35V DC 25W Power LED Driver Supply LM2596 CC CV... Zen Cart! 1~35V DC 25W Power LED Driver Supply LM2596 CC CV Light [Constant Voltage Current_A] - LED Power Driver Constant Voltage / Current Adjustable C... View on www.xscyz.com Preview by Yahoo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 662 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 568 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 2 17:03:43 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 17:03:43 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense In-Reply-To: <888038726.3162193.1441012393053.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <888038726.3162193.1441012393053.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <010101d0e5c2$d9e257d0$8da70770$@cfl.rr.com> Alan, Thanks, Ken Martindale From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, August 31, 2015 5:13 AM To: psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense Just found these borosilicate lenses on McMaster-Carr. http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-borosilicate-glass/=yqcwip In case they are of interest in our light build. Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 2 17:36:23 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 21:36:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Driver In-Reply-To: <00e201d0e5bf$69fda850$3df8f8f0$@cfl.rr.com> References: <994134746.6326020.1439899330736.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <00e201d0e5bf$69fda850$3df8f8f0$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1951635587.617913.1441229783356.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Ken,that site didn't have a lot of information.This documentation on Ebay desribes them as constant voltage, constant current driverssuitable for high power LEDs.?LED Power Driver Constant Voltage Current Adjust CC CV | ? | | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | LED Power Driver Constant Voltage Current Adjust CC CVUS $11.00 New in Business & Industrial, Electrical & Test Equipment, Test Equipment | | | | View on www.ebay.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | It does say to heat sink it if running more than 25W. Heatsink version available on his site.?When I mentioned the price to my LED friend yesterdayhe was a bit dubious & suggested I might get what I payed for.You have prompted me to do a bit more experimentation; so have it running at the momentdriving a 60W LED & will see how long it runs for.Hope you enjoyed the trip to Ireland.Alan From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 8:39 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Driver #yiv0130402132 #yiv0130402132 -- _filtered #yiv0130402132 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0130402132 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0130402132 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0130402132 {font-family:Georgia;panose-1:2 4 5 2 5 4 5 2 3 3;}#yiv0130402132 #yiv0130402132 p.yiv0130402132MsoNormal, #yiv0130402132 li.yiv0130402132MsoNormal, #yiv0130402132 div.yiv0130402132MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv0130402132 a:link, #yiv0130402132 span.yiv0130402132MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0130402132 a:visited, #yiv0130402132 span.yiv0130402132MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0130402132 span.yiv0130402132link-enhancr-element {}#yiv0130402132 span.yiv0130402132link-enhancr-view-on-domain {}#yiv0130402132 span.yiv0130402132EmailStyle19 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv0130402132 .yiv0130402132MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv0130402132 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv0130402132 div.yiv0130402132WordSection1 {}#yiv0130402132 I looked at this chip and it?s primarily a buck voltage regulator not intended for use as a constant current LED driver. ?You can try using it but I?m not optimistic about them. ?Let me know if it works. ?Ken Martindale ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 8:02 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Driver ?Bought this LED driver & a 4000 & 6000 lumen emitter.It may be helpful with regard to our open source light.This one describes itself as having a wattage output limitation,?beyond which cooling is required. This may be just a heat sink butI'm not sure.?There are other higher powered constant voltage, constantcurrent drivers on site.?There was no description of how it worked with the product, but managed tofind one on the site posted at the bottom. The blue trim-pot on the leftincreases voltage by a clockwise turning & the right trim-pot increases current.AlanLED Power Driver Constant Voltage / Current Adjustable Module - Blue + Black | ? | | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | LED Power Driver Constant Voltage / Current Adjustable...I like this from DX. Find the cool gadgets at a incredibly low price with worldwide free shipping here. | | | | View on www.dx.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | | | | | | | | | | ? ?1~35V DC 25W Power LED Driver Supply LM2596 CC CV Light [Constant Voltage Current_A] - $15.00 : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce | ? | | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | 1~35V DC 25W Power LED Driver Supply LM2596 CC CV...Zen Cart! 1~35V DC 25W Power LED Driver Supply LM2596 CC CV Light [Constant Voltage Current_A] - LED Power Driver Constant Voltage / Current Adjustable C... | | | | View on www.xscyz.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | | | | | | | | | | ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 568 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 662 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 2 17:42:15 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 17:42:15 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense In-Reply-To: <55E451F8.7050609@psubs.org> References: <888038726.3162193.1441012393053.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1198924467.3256392.1441015464764.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55E451F8.7050609@psubs.org> Message-ID: <010b01d0e5c8$3bd0e470$b372ad50$@cfl.rr.com> Jon, Nothing happened except I took a trip to Ireland. I'm back now and continuing on the LED light and catching up on my E-mail. I have finished the power stage and should finish the over temperature circuit tomorrow. I'll put those schematics on the Forum tomorrow in a file that everyone can review, like to get some questions and comments. Sorry to be gone for a while, had to drink some Guinness and have a few Irish Coffees. Thanks, Ken Martindale -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, August 31, 2015 9:09 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense What has happened with the light build? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 2 17:54:33 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 17:54:33 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense In-Reply-To: <25499DCF-996F-40F5-B42C-229D61C4FA30@yahoo.com> References: <2143753028.3729423.1441061504971.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1678100599.3760361.1441063258448.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <25499DCF-996F-40F5-B42C-229D61C4FA30@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <011101d0e5c9$f3f87d00$dbe97700$@cfl.rr.com> Alan, Usually if the driver is a true current source the extra wire doesn?t make much difference (within reason). Also most drivers filter the switching waveform so the current to the LED is mostly a dc tern with a very low AC component. Take a look at the design we have on the forum tomorrow late to see what the present design is. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, August 31, 2015 8:49 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense Hank, that's a good question for Ken. As I understand it, the LED drivers have a switching frequency so are turning on & off the power to the LED. When electricity runs through wire it creates a magnetic field & when the power is switched off, the magnetic field collapses & causes a surge of electricity. Like a coil in a car creating a spark across a spark plug. The LED doesn't like this. The longer the run of wire, the more inductance is created. The capacitor is a buffer for this & there are big ones on high power LED drivers. They are there to combat the inductance from the battery to the driver, but by lengthening the wiring from driver to LED you create the problem out the other side. Perhaps a capacitor could be placed in the light fitting, & the driver in the pressure hull. This would reduce the footprint inside the fitting & stop the rest of the electronics from being exposed to any heat build up. you would still have the problem of pressure on the capacitor if you compensated though. Have seen pressure resistant capacitors, but don't know enough about them. I will go & see a friend who is an expert on this. Alan Sent from my iPad On 1/09/2015, at 11:20 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Alan,v Why can't the driver stay inside the submarine, why put it in the housing? Hank On Monday, August 31, 2015 4:55 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hank, you have got me thinking. I don't want to pressure compensate because of the capacitors in the driver. I was also concerned that any fluid might yellow with the heat. According to this article, the main problem with LED lights is disipating the heat that comes out the back of the emmitter. http://www.deepsea.com/wp-content/uploads/article-Application-of-High-Power-LEDs-UI08.pdf I could seal off the driver compartment at the back of the emmitter & fill that with oil. However I will be machining this out of alluminium rod & can keep the enclosure round the driver pretty small so there isn't much of an air gap to the housing. Could easily experiment with & without oil to see if it makes much difference. Alan _____ From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense Alan, I assume your going with a pressure housing? why not fill the pressure housing 95% full of oil to tsf the heat to the water? Hank On Monday, August 31, 2015 4:00 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Sorry part 2 ( ipad & big fingers) The LED cost $11- & the driver $6-. Free delivery. I have ordered a number of reflectors for a couple of dollars each. The driver is quite small. With the automated assembly processes & micro sized components, you can't get anywhere near this size soldering on the components yourself. Because of the heat factor I am limiting myself to the 6000lm LED. Will be looking at the beam angle I get from these reflectors & available glass lenses, before making up a housing. Looking for a borosilicate lense because of the heat transfer & low expansion. I have taken a different route from Ken, but this process he started has been very helpful & motivating, as has been the discussion & information that has come out. Alan Sent from my iPad On 1/09/2015, at 9:42 am, Alan > wrote: I bought a 24-36V 6000 lm & 4000 lm LED array along with drivers, & have another lot in the post. The driv Sent from my iPad On 1/09/2015, at 4:09 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Ken is in Ireland on a holiday but before he left, he had finished the design of the LED Driver power stage. Still working on the housing but have been sidetracked the last month on getting my boat ready to dive after major upgraded over the last 18 months. Hope to get back on the Light housing shortly. I did dive the new 5K LED light this weekend and it worked great. Cliff On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 8:09 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: What has happened with the light build? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 2 18:00:10 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 22:00:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ballast idea In-Reply-To: <666652939.114253.1440468828093.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <666652939.114253.1440468828093.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2053048147.677061.1441231210028.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> AlanI was thinking of a way to keep the bubble the same size as the sub descends, it would need a check valve so when you put air into the ballast tank, it would not just pass through the regulator. ?I was just thinking out loud, not a great idea :-) ?I need a few bad ideas between the good ones.Hank On Monday, August 24, 2015 8:13 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Not sure what you mean there Hank.No air should come out of the 2nd stage regulator unless there is apresure difference on it's diaphram.Are you wanting just a slower flow of low pressure air or are you thinking?of some sort of automatic hovering system.P.S. wonder what will happen to the American dollar when Donald Trumpbecomes president?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 1:12 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ballast idea When I dive with a passenger ?the sub is more difficult to control. I don't bother with fine weight adjustments. ?If Gamma is 50 lb over weight, I don't worry about it. ?I just add air to the ballast faster than normal. ?When training my kids, it is tricky for them. ?I have a solution, maybe. ?I am thinking about having an external scuba first and second stage regulator connected to each ballast tank. ? As soon as the hatch is under, send air to the first stage regulator, then use thrusters to sink. ?Or, start sinking slowly then send air to the regulator to maintain sink speed. ?Might be fun to play with.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 2 18:06:57 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 22:06:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense In-Reply-To: <011101d0e5c9$f3f87d00$dbe97700$@cfl.rr.com> References: <2143753028.3729423.1441061504971.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1678100599.3760361.1441063258448.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <25499DCF-996F-40F5-B42C-229D61C4FA30@yahoo.com> <011101d0e5c9$f3f87d00$dbe97700$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <719378684.619504.1441231617866.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Ken,it may be worth looking at whether we design this light with the driver in the hull.I have covered this in another email, but additionally, the commercial standinglamp I saw, that was using the latest 100W LED array had alluminium heat sinksabout 3" long & about 10 of them, out the back. So heat will be a big problem.If we keep the driver in the hull it won't get cooked, & we can heat sink the emitterstraight to the back of the housing where it will be cooled by water.Alan From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense #yiv7752138914 #yiv7752138914 -- _filtered #yiv7752138914 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7752138914 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7752138914 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv7752138914 #yiv7752138914 p.yiv7752138914MsoNormal, #yiv7752138914 li.yiv7752138914MsoNormal, #yiv7752138914 div.yiv7752138914MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv7752138914 a:link, #yiv7752138914 span.yiv7752138914MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7752138914 a:visited, #yiv7752138914 span.yiv7752138914MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7752138914 span.yiv7752138914EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv7752138914 .yiv7752138914MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv7752138914 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv7752138914 div.yiv7752138914WordSection1 {}#yiv7752138914 Alan, ?Usually if the driver is a true current source the extra wire doesn?t make much difference (within reason). ?Also most drivers filter the switching waveform so the current to the LED is mostly a dc tern with a very low AC component. ?Take a look at the design we have on the forum tomorrow late to see what the present design is. ?Ken ? ? ? ? ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, August 31, 2015 8:49 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense ?Hank, that's a good question for Ken.As I understand it, the LED drivers have a switching frequency so are turning on & offthe power to the LED. When electricity runs through wire it creates a magnetic field &when the power is switched off, the magnetic field collapses & causes a surge of electricity.Like a coil in a car creating a spark across a spark plug. The LED doesn't like this.?The longer the run of wire, the more inductance is created. The capacitor is a buffer for this& there are big ones on high power LED drivers. They are there to combat the inductance from?the battery to the driver, but by lengthening the wiring from driver to LED you create the?problem out the other side. Perhaps a capacitor could be placed in the light fitting, & thedriver in the pressure hull. This would reduce the footprint inside the fitting & stop the rest of the electronics from being exposed to any heat build up. you would still have the problemof pressure on the capacitor if you compensated though. Have seen pressure resistantcapacitors, but don't know enough about them.I will go & see a friend who is an expert on this.Alan Sent from my iPad On 1/09/2015, at 11:20 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,vWhy can't the driver stay inside the submarine, why put it in the housing?Hank ? ?On Monday, August 31, 2015 4:55 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Hank,you have got me thinking. I don't want to pressure compensate because of the capacitorsin the driver. I was also concerned that any fluid might yellow with the heat.According to this article, the main problem with LED lights is disipating the heat that comesout the back of the emmitter.http://www.deepsea.com/wp-content/uploads/article-Application-of-High-Power-LEDs-UI08.pdf I could seal off the driver compartment at the back of the emmitter & fill that with oil. HoweverI will be machining this out of alluminium rod & can keep the enclosure round the driver pretty smallso there isn't much of an air gap to the housing.Could easily experiment with & without oil to see if it makes much difference.Alan ? ?From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense ?Alan,I assume your going with a?pressure housing? ?why not fill the pressure housing 95% full of oil to tsf the heat to the water?Hank ? ? ?On Monday, August 31, 2015 4:00 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Sorry part 2 ( ipad & big fingers)The LED cost $11- & the driver $6-. ?Free delivery.I have ordered a number of reflectors for a couple of dollars each.The driver is quite small. With the automated assembly processes& micro sized components, you can't get anywhere near this sizesoldering on the components yourself.Because of the heat factor I am limiting myself to the 6000lm LED.Will be looking at the beam angle I get from these reflectors & available glass?lenses, before making up a housing. Looking for a borosilicate lensebecause of the heat transfer & low expansion.I have taken a different route from Ken, but this process he started hasbeen very helpful & motivating, as has been the discussion & informationthat has come out.?Alan Sent from my iPad On 1/09/2015, at 9:42 am, Alan wrote:I bought a 24-36V 6000 lm & 4000 lm LED array along with drivers,?& have another lot in the post.The driv Sent from my iPad On 1/09/2015, at 4:09 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ken is in Ireland on a holiday but before he left, he had finished the design of the LED Driver power stage.? Still working on the housing but have been sidetracked the last month on getting my boat ready to dive after major upgraded over the last 18 months.?Hope to get back on the Light housing shortly.? I did dive the new 5K LED light this weekend and it worked great. ?Cliff ?On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 8:09 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: What has happened with the light build? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 2 18:11:02 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 22:11:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ballast idea In-Reply-To: <2053048147.677061.1441231210028.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <666652939.114253.1440468828093.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <2053048147.677061.1441231210028.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2127796668.628617.1441231862849.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I sent that email 9 days ago. Must have gone by ship.:)Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 10:00 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ballast idea AlanI was thinking of a way to keep the bubble the same size as the sub descends, it would need a check valve so when you put air into the ballast tank, it would not just pass through the regulator. ?I was just thinking out loud, not a great idea :-) ?I need a few bad ideas between the good ones.Hank On Monday, August 24, 2015 8:13 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Not sure what you mean there Hank.No air should come out of the 2nd stage regulator unless there is apresure difference on it's diaphram.Are you wanting just a slower flow of low pressure air or are you thinking?of some sort of automatic hovering system.P.S. wonder what will happen to the American dollar when Donald Trumpbecomes president?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 1:12 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ballast idea When I dive with a passenger ?the sub is more difficult to control. I don't bother with fine weight adjustments. ?If Gamma is 50 lb over weight, I don't worry about it. ?I just add air to the ballast faster than normal. ?When training my kids, it is tricky for them. ?I have a solution, maybe. ?I am thinking about having an external scuba first and second stage regulator connected to each ballast tank. ? As soon as the hatch is under, send air to the first stage regulator, then use thrusters to sink. ?Or, start sinking slowly then send air to the regulator to maintain sink speed. ?Might be fun to play with.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 2 18:17:58 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 18:17:58 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Driver In-Reply-To: <1951635587.617913.1441229783356.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <994134746.6326020.1439899330736.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <00e201d0e5bf$69fda850$3df8f8f0$@cfl.rr.com> <1951635587.617913.1441229783356.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <013601d0e5cd$393c8bb0$abb5a310$@cfl.rr.com> You are right, there wasn?t much information and I found it confusing. Hope your 60 watt works OK. If their statement about step down is correct then your LED run voltage has to be less than your input voltage. The circuit contains an aluminum electrolytic capacitor which makes me question the reliability. But sometimes it still works. Have fun, Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 5:36 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Driver Ken, that site didn't have a lot of information. This documentation on Ebay desribes them as constant voltage, constant current drivers suitable for high power LEDs. LED Power Driver Constant Voltage Current Adjust CC CV LED Power Driver Constant Voltage Current Adjust CC CV US $11.00 New in Business & Industrial, Electrical & Test Equipment, Test Equipment View on www.ebay.com Preview by Yahoo It does say to heat sink it if running more than 25W. Heatsink version available on his site. When I mentioned the price to my LED friend yesterday he was a bit dubious & suggested I might get what I payed for. You have prompted me to do a bit more experimentation; so have it running at the moment driving a 60W LED & will see how long it runs for. Hope you enjoyed the trip to Ireland. Alan _____ From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 8:39 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Driver I looked at this chip and it?s primarily a buck voltage regulator not intended for use as a constant current LED driver. You can try using it but I?m not optimistic about them. Let me know if it works. Ken Martindale From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 8:02 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Driver Bought this LED driver & a 4000 & 6000 lumen emitter. It may be helpful with regard to our open source light. This one describes itself as having a wattage output limitation, beyond which cooling is required. This may be just a heat sink but I'm not sure. There are other higher powered constant voltage, constant current drivers on site. There was no description of how it worked with the product, but managed to find one on the site posted at the bottom. The blue trim-pot on the left increases voltage by a clockwise turning & the right trim-pot increases current. Alan LED Power Driver Constant Voltage / Current Adjustable Module - Blue + Black LED Power Driver Constant Voltage / Current Adjustable... I like this from DX. Find the cool gadgets at a incredibly low price with worldwide free shipping here. View on www.dx.com Preview by Yahoo 1~35V DC 25W Power LED Driver Supply LM2596 CC CV Light [Constant Voltage Current_A] - $15.00 : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce 1~35V DC 25W Power LED Driver Supply LM2596 CC CV... Zen Cart! 1~35V DC 25W Power LED Driver Supply LM2596 CC CV Light [Constant Voltage Current_A] - LED Power Driver Constant Voltage / Current Adjustable C... View on www.xscyz.com Preview by Yahoo _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 536 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 662 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 568 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 2 18:26:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 22:26:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ballast idea In-Reply-To: <2127796668.628617.1441231862849.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2127796668.628617.1441231862849.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1543764358.702239.1441232811415.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Ha Ha funny On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 4:14 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I sent that email 9 days ago. Must have gone by ship.:)Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 10:00 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ballast idea AlanI was thinking of a way to keep the bubble the same size as the sub descends, it would need a check valve so when you put air into the ballast tank, it would not just pass through the regulator. ?I was just thinking out loud, not a great idea :-) ?I need a few bad ideas between the good ones.Hank On Monday, August 24, 2015 8:13 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Not sure what you mean there Hank.No air should come out of the 2nd stage regulator unless there is apresure difference on it's diaphram.Are you wanting just a slower flow of low pressure air or are you thinking?of some sort of automatic hovering system.P.S. wonder what will happen to the American dollar when Donald Trumpbecomes president?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 1:12 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ballast idea When I dive with a passenger ?the sub is more difficult to control. I don't bother with fine weight adjustments. ?If Gamma is 50 lb over weight, I don't worry about it. ?I just add air to the ballast faster than normal. ?When training my kids, it is tricky for them. ?I have a solution, maybe. ?I am thinking about having an external scuba first and second stage regulator connected to each ballast tank. ? As soon as the hatch is under, send air to the first stage regulator, then use thrusters to sink. ?Or, start sinking slowly then send air to the regulator to maintain sink speed. ?Might be fun to play with.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 2 18:54:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 18:54:51 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense In-Reply-To: <719378684.619504.1441231617866.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2143753028.3729423.1441061504971.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1678100599.3760361.1441063258448.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <25499DCF-996F-40F5-B42C-229D61C4FA30@yahoo.com> <011101d0e5c9$f3f87d00$dbe97700$@cfl.rr.com> <719378684.619504.1441231617866.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001901d0e5d2$60423930$20c6ab90$@cfl.rr.com> Putting the driver in the hull is certainly feasible and has appeal but that requires a change in our spec and Cliff needs to wade into this. That?s why we wrote the spec. not as a cast in concrete but what most of the PSubs wanted (maybe). Bear in mind the driver will still need a small heat sink to dissipate about 11 or 12 watts and that makes the light into two parts. We certainly need the LEDs to be cooled by the water. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 6:07 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense Ken, it may be worth looking at whether we design this light with the driver in the hull. I have covered this in another email, but additionally, the commercial standing lamp I saw, that was using the latest 100W LED array had alluminium heat sinks about 3" long & about 10 of them, out the back. So heat will be a big problem. If we keep the driver in the hull it won't get cooked, & we can heat sink the emitter straight to the back of the housing where it will be cooled by water. Alan _____ From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense Alan, Usually if the driver is a true current source the extra wire doesn?t make much difference (within reason). Also most drivers filter the switching waveform so the current to the LED is mostly a dc tern with a very low AC component. Take a look at the design we have on the forum tomorrow late to see what the present design is. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, August 31, 2015 8:49 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense Hank, that's a good question for Ken. As I understand it, the LED drivers have a switching frequency so are turning on & off the power to the LED. When electricity runs through wire it creates a magnetic field & when the power is switched off, the magnetic field collapses & causes a surge of electricity. Like a coil in a car creating a spark across a spark plug. The LED doesn't like this. The longer the run of wire, the more inductance is created. The capacitor is a buffer for this & there are big ones on high power LED drivers. They are there to combat the inductance from the battery to the driver, but by lengthening the wiring from driver to LED you create the problem out the other side. Perhaps a capacitor could be placed in the light fitting, & the driver in the pressure hull. This would reduce the footprint inside the fitting & stop the rest of the electronics from being exposed to any heat build up. you would still have the problem of pressure on the capacitor if you compensated though. Have seen pressure resistant capacitors, but don't know enough about them. I will go & see a friend who is an expert on this. Alan Sent from my iPad On 1/09/2015, at 11:20 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Alan,v Why can't the driver stay inside the submarine, why put it in the housing? Hank On Monday, August 31, 2015 4:55 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hank, you have got me thinking. I don't want to pressure compensate because of the capacitors in the driver. I was also concerned that any fluid might yellow with the heat. According to this article, the main problem with LED lights is disipating the heat that comes out the back of the emmitter. http://www.deepsea.com/wp-content/uploads/article-Application-of-High-Power-LEDs-UI08.pdf I could seal off the driver compartment at the back of the emmitter & fill that with oil. However I will be machining this out of alluminium rod & can keep the enclosure round the driver pretty small so there isn't much of an air gap to the housing. Could easily experiment with & without oil to see if it makes much difference. Alan _____ From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense Alan, I assume your going with a pressure housing? why not fill the pressure housing 95% full of oil to tsf the heat to the water? Hank On Monday, August 31, 2015 4:00 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Sorry part 2 ( ipad & big fingers) The LED cost $11- & the driver $6-. Free delivery. I have ordered a number of reflectors for a couple of dollars each. The driver is quite small. With the automated assembly processes & micro sized components, you can't get anywhere near this size soldering on the components yourself. Because of the heat factor I am limiting myself to the 6000lm LED. Will be looking at the beam angle I get from these reflectors & available glass lenses, before making up a housing. Looking for a borosilicate lense because of the heat transfer & low expansion. I have taken a different route from Ken, but this process he started has been very helpful & motivating, as has been the discussion & information that has come out. Alan Sent from my iPad On 1/09/2015, at 9:42 am, Alan > wrote: I bought a 24-36V 6000 lm & 4000 lm LED array along with drivers, & have another lot in the post. The driv Sent from my iPad On 1/09/2015, at 4:09 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Ken is in Ireland on a holiday but before he left, he had finished the design of the LED Driver power stage. Still working on the housing but have been sidetracked the last month on getting my boat ready to dive after major upgraded over the last 18 months. Hope to get back on the Light housing shortly. I did dive the new 5K LED light this weekend and it worked great. Cliff On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 8:09 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: What has happened with the light build? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 2 19:43:22 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 18:43:22 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense In-Reply-To: <001901d0e5d2$60423930$20c6ab90$@cfl.rr.com> References: <2143753028.3729423.1441061504971.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1678100599.3760361.1441063258448.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <25499DCF-996F-40F5-B42C-229D61C4FA30@yahoo.com> <011101d0e5c9$f3f87d00$dbe97700$@cfl.rr.com> <719378684.619504.1441231617866.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <001901d0e5d2$60423930$20c6ab90$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: I am with Ken on this. The spec is written and that is what we have been designing to. I think having a second enclosure in the pressure hull to hold most of the electronics would work and you could run multiple lights off this hub. Deep Sea Power and Light have an LED option like this. Having said that, for this first light, I think we should stick with the spec and design a self contained 10K light. Nothing prevents anyone from taking the electronics design that Ken comes up with and the housing that I develop and morph these in one way or another to fit their need. Cliff On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 5:54 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Putting the driver in the hull is certainly feasible and has appeal but > that requires a change in our spec and Cliff needs to wade into this. > > > > That?s why we wrote the spec. not as a cast in concrete but what most of > the PSubs wanted (maybe). > > > > Bear in mind the driver will still need a small heat sink to dissipate > about 11 or 12 watts and that makes the light into two parts. > > > > We certainly need the LEDs to be cooled by the water. > > > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 02, 2015 6:07 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense > > > > Ken, > > it may be worth looking at whether we design this light with the driver in > the hull. > > I have covered this in another email, but additionally, the commercial > standing > > lamp I saw, that was using the latest 100W LED array had alluminium heat > sinks > > about 3" long & about 10 of them, out the back. So heat will be a big > problem. > > If we keep the driver in the hull it won't get cooked, & we can heat sink > the emitter > > straight to the back of the housing where it will be cooled by water. > > Alan > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, September 3, 2015 9:54 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense > > > > Alan, > > > > Usually if the driver is a true current source the extra wire doesn?t make > much difference (within reason). > > > > Also most drivers filter the switching waveform so the current to the LED > is mostly a dc tern with a very low AC component. > > > > Take a look at the design we have on the forum tomorrow late to see what > the present design is. > > > > Ken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [ > mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org > ] *On Behalf Of *Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Monday, August 31, 2015 8:49 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense > > > > Hank, that's a good question for Ken. > > As I understand it, the LED drivers have a switching frequency so are > turning on & off > > the power to the LED. When electricity runs through wire it creates a > magnetic field & > > when the power is switched off, the magnetic field collapses & causes a > surge of electricity. > > Like a coil in a car creating a spark across a spark plug. The LED doesn't > like this. > > The longer the run of wire, the more inductance is created. The capacitor > is a buffer for this > > & there are big ones on high power LED drivers. They are there to combat > the inductance from > > the battery to the driver, but by lengthening the wiring from driver to > LED you create the > > problem out the other side. Perhaps a capacitor could be placed in the > light fitting, & the > > driver in the pressure hull. This would reduce the footprint inside the > fitting & stop the rest of the electronics from being exposed to any heat > build up. you would still have the problem > > of pressure on the capacitor if you compensated though. Have seen pressure > resistant > > capacitors, but don't know enough about them. > > I will go & see a friend who is an expert on this. > > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 1/09/2015, at 11:20 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan,v > > Why can't the driver stay inside the submarine, why put it in the housing? > > Hank > > > > > > On Monday, August 31, 2015 4:55 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Hank, > > you have got me thinking. I don't want to pressure compensate because of > the capacitors > > in the driver. I was also concerned that any fluid might yellow with the > heat. > > According to this article, the main problem with LED lights is disipating > the heat that comes > > out the back of the emmitter. > > > http://www.deepsea.com/wp-content/uploads/article-Application-of-High-Power-LEDs-UI08.pdf > > I could seal off the driver compartment at the back of the emmitter & fill > that with oil. However > > I will be machining this out of alluminium rod & can keep the enclosure > round the driver pretty small > > so there isn't much of an air gap to the housing. > > Could easily experiment with & without oil to see if it makes much > difference. > > Alan > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 1, 2015 10:09 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense > > > > Alan, > > I assume your going with a pressure housing? why not fill the pressure > housing 95% full of oil to tsf the heat to the water? > > Hank > > > > > > > > On Monday, August 31, 2015 4:00 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Sorry part 2 ( ipad & big fingers) > > The LED cost $11- & the driver $6-. Free delivery. > > I have ordered a number of reflectors for a couple of dollars each. > > The driver is quite small. With the automated assembly processes > > & micro sized components, you can't get anywhere near this size > > soldering on the components yourself. > > Because of the heat factor I am limiting myself to the 6000lm LED. > > Will be looking at the beam angle I get from these reflectors & available > glass > > lenses, before making up a housing. Looking for a borosilicate lense > > because of the heat transfer & low expansion. > > I have taken a different route from Ken, but this process he started has > > been very helpful & motivating, as has been the discussion & information > > that has come out. > > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 1/09/2015, at 9:42 am, Alan wrote: > > I bought a 24-36V 6000 lm & 4000 lm LED array along with drivers, > > & have another lot in the post. > > The driv > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 1/09/2015, at 4:09 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Ken is in Ireland on a holiday but before he left, he had finished the > design of the LED Driver power stage. Still working on the housing but > have been sidetracked the last month on getting my boat ready to dive after > major upgraded over the last 18 months. Hope to get back on the Light > housing shortly. I did dive the new 5K LED light this weekend and it > worked great. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 8:09 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > What has happened with the light build? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 2 23:25:22 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 03:25:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense In-Reply-To: References: <2143753028.3729423.1441061504971.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1678100599.3760361.1441063258448.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <25499DCF-996F-40F5-B42C-229D61C4FA30@yahoo.com> <011101d0e5c9$f3f87d00$dbe97700$@cfl.rr.com> <719378684.619504.1441231617866.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <001901d0e5d2$60423930$20c6ab90$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1310887387.732841.1441250722667.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> OK Cliff;I am making up a 36V 60W light with the LED driver in the hull.Thanks Hank for the suggestion.I can still try out Ken's driver, along with the driver I have, & the others I have on order.I am thinking of just glueing a lense on to the light housing. This will reduce theprofile & save a lot of work machining screw holes, o-ring grooves & a clamping plate.Have run my 60W emitter for a couple of hours & it isn't getting exsessively hot out the frontso am looking at the acrylic lense option that I previously thought may not be too good.If I want to re-use the housing, should the emitter fail, I can mill out the acrylic lense.Or just throw away.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 11:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense I am with Ken on this.? The spec is written and that is what we have been designing to.?? I think having a second enclosure in the pressure hull to hold most of the electronics would work and you could run multiple lights off this hub.? Deep Sea Power and Light have an LED option like this.? Having said that, for this first light, I think we should stick with the spec and design a self contained 10K light.? Nothing prevents anyone from taking the electronics design that Ken comes up with and the housing that I develop and morph these in one way or another to fit their need.? Cliff On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 5:54 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Putting the driver in the hull is certainly feasible and has appeal but that requires a change in our spec and Cliff needs to wade into this.?That?s why we wrote the spec. not as a cast in concrete but what most of the PSubs wanted (maybe).?Bear in mind the driver will still need a small heat sink to dissipate about 11 or 12 watts and that makes the light into two parts.?We certainly need the LEDs to be cooled by the water.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 6:07 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense?Ken,it may be worth looking at whether we design this light with the driver in the hull.I have covered this in another email, but additionally, the commercial standinglamp I saw, that was using the latest 100W LED array had alluminium heat sinksabout 3" long & about 10 of them, out the back. So heat will be a big problem.If we keep the driver in the hull it won't get cooked, & we can heat sink the emitterstraight to the back of the housing where it will be cooled by water.Alan??From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense?Alan,?Usually if the driver is a true current source the extra wire doesn?t make much difference (within reason).?Also most drivers filter the switching waveform so the current to the LED is mostly a dc tern with a very low AC component.?Take a look at the design we have on the forum tomorrow late to see what the present design is.?Ken??????From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, August 31, 2015 8:49 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense?Hank, that's a good question for Ken.As I understand it, the LED drivers have a switching frequency so are turning on & offthe power to the LED. When electricity runs through wire it creates a magnetic field &when the power is switched off, the magnetic field collapses & causes a surge of electricity.Like a coil in a car creating a spark across a spark plug. The LED doesn't like this.?The longer the run of wire, the more inductance is created. The capacitor is a buffer for this& there are big ones on high power LED drivers. They are there to combat the inductance from?the battery to the driver, but by lengthening the wiring from driver to LED you create the?problem out the other side. Perhaps a capacitor could be placed in the light fitting, & thedriver in the pressure hull. This would reduce the footprint inside the fitting & stop the rest of the electronics from being exposed to any heat build up. you would still have the problemof pressure on the capacitor if you compensated though. Have seen pressure resistantcapacitors, but don't know enough about them.I will go & see a friend who is an expert on this.Alan Sent from my iPad On 1/09/2015, at 11:20 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,vWhy can't the driver stay inside the submarine, why put it in the housing?Hank??On Monday, August 31, 2015 4:55 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote:?Hank,you have got me thinking. I don't want to pressure compensate because of the capacitorsin the driver. I was also concerned that any fluid might yellow with the heat.According to this article, the main problem with LED lights is disipating the heat that comesout the back of the emmitter.http://www.deepsea.com/wp-content/uploads/article-Application-of-High-Power-LEDs-UI08.pdfI could seal off the driver compartment at the back of the emmitter & fill that with oil. HoweverI will be machining this out of alluminium rod & can keep the enclosure round the driver pretty smallso there isn't much of an air gap to the housing.Could easily experiment with & without oil to see if it makes much difference.Alan??From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense?Alan,I assume your going with a?pressure housing? ?why not fill the pressure housing 95% full of oil to tsf the heat to the water?Hank???On Monday, August 31, 2015 4:00 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote:?Sorry part 2 ( ipad & big fingers)The LED cost $11- & the driver $6-.? Free delivery.I have ordered a number of reflectors for a couple of dollars each.The driver is quite small. With the automated assembly processes& micro sized components, you can't get anywhere near this sizesoldering on the components yourself.Because of the heat factor I am limiting myself to the 6000lm LED.Will be looking at the beam angle I get from these reflectors & available glass?lenses, before making up a housing. Looking for a borosilicate lensebecause of the heat transfer & low expansion.I have taken a different route from Ken, but this process he started hasbeen very helpful & motivating, as has been the discussion & informationthat has come out.?Alan Sent from my iPad On 1/09/2015, at 9:42 am, Alan wrote:I bought a 24-36V 6000 lm & 4000 lm LED array along with drivers,?& have another lot in the post.The driv Sent from my iPad On 1/09/2015, at 4:09 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ken is in Ireland on a holiday but before he left, he had finished the design of the LED Driver power stage.? Still working on the housing but have been sidetracked the last month on getting my boat ready to dive after major upgraded over the last 18 months.?Hope to get back on the Light housing shortly.? I did dive the new 5K LED light this weekend and it worked great.?Cliff?On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 8:09 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: What has happened with the light build? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 3 12:31:57 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sam Buck via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 12:31:57 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense Message-ID: <30031C0D-DA23-4CC8-8F8F-3DCFF3288226@sacunderwatertechnologies.com> Hi! Thanks for joining PBGU on Boilerlink. You?ll probably want to go to purdue.edu/boardgamers to join us, since we don?t use Boilerlink for anything, and so won?t approve your request until we clear out the queue every few months or so. Please head on over to www.purdue.edu/boardgamers to get all the information you?ll want about who we are and when we meet - we?re looking forward to getting to know you! On Sep 2, 2015, at 7:43 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I am with Ken on this.? The spec is written and that is what we have been designing to.?? I think having a second enclosure in the pressure hull to hold most of the electronics would work and you could run multiple lights off this hub.? Deep Sea Power and Light have an LED option like this.? Having said that, for this first light, I think we should stick with the spec and design a self contained 10K light.? Nothing prevents anyone from taking the electronics design that Ken comes up with and the housing that I develop and morph these in one way or another to fit their need.? > > Cliff > > > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 5:54 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Putting the driver in the hull is certainly feasible and has appeal but that requires a change in our spec and Cliff needs to wade into this. > ? > That?s why we wrote the spec. not as a cast in concrete but what most of the PSubs wanted (maybe). > ? > Bear in mind the driver will still need a small heat sink to dissipate about 11 or 12 watts and that makes the light into two parts. > ? > We certainly need the LEDs to be cooled by the water. > ? > Ken > ? > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 6:07 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense > ? > Ken, > it may be worth looking at whether we design this light with the driver in the hull. > I have covered this in another email, but additionally, the commercial standing > lamp I saw, that was using the latest 100W LED array had alluminium heat sinks > about 3" long & about 10 of them, out the back. So heat will be a big problem. > If we keep the driver in the hull it won't get cooked, & we can heat sink the emitter > straight to the back of the housing where it will be cooled by water. > Alan > ? > ? > > From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 9:54 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense > ? > Alan, > ? > Usually if the driver is a true current source the extra wire doesn?t make much difference (within reason). > ? > Also most drivers filter the switching waveform so the current to the LED is mostly a dc tern with a very low AC component. > ? > Take a look at the design we have on the forum tomorrow late to see what the present design is. > ? > Ken > ? > ? > ? > ? > ? > ? > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, August 31, 2015 8:49 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense > ? > Hank, that's a good question for Ken. > As I understand it, the LED drivers have a switching frequency so are turning on & off > the power to the LED. When electricity runs through wire it creates a magnetic field & > when the power is switched off, the magnetic field collapses & causes a surge of electricity. > Like a coil in a car creating a spark across a spark plug. The LED doesn't like this.? > The longer the run of wire, the more inductance is created. The capacitor is a buffer for this > & there are big ones on high power LED drivers. They are there to combat the inductance from? > the battery to the driver, but by lengthening the wiring from driver to LED you create the? > problem out the other side. Perhaps a capacitor could be placed in the light fitting, & the > driver in the pressure hull. This would reduce the footprint inside the fitting & stop the rest of the electronics from being exposed to any heat build up. you would still have the problem > of pressure on the capacitor if you compensated though. Have seen pressure resistant > capacitors, but don't know enough about them. > I will go & see a friend who is an expert on this. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 1/09/2015, at 11:20 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Alan,v > Why can't the driver stay inside the submarine, why put it in the housing? > Hank > ? > ? > On Monday, August 31, 2015 4:55 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > ? > Hank, > you have got me thinking. I don't want to pressure compensate because of the capacitors > in the driver. I was also concerned that any fluid might yellow with the heat. > According to this article, the main problem with LED lights is disipating the heat that comes > out the back of the emmitter. > http://www.deepsea.com/wp-content/uploads/article-Application-of-High-Power-LEDs-UI08.pdf > I could seal off the driver compartment at the back of the emmitter & fill that with oil. However > I will be machining this out of alluminium rod & can keep the enclosure round the driver pretty small > so there isn't much of an air gap to the housing. > Could easily experiment with & without oil to see if it makes much difference. > Alan > ? > ? > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 10:09 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense > ? > Alan, > I assume your going with a?pressure housing? ?why not fill the pressure housing 95% full of oil to tsf the heat to the water? > Hank > ? > ? > ? > On Monday, August 31, 2015 4:00 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > ? > Sorry part 2 ( ipad & big fingers) > The LED cost $11- & the driver $6-.? Free delivery. > I have ordered a number of reflectors for a couple of dollars each. > The driver is quite small. With the automated assembly processes > & micro sized components, you can't get anywhere near this size > soldering on the components yourself. > Because of the heat factor I am limiting myself to the 6000lm LED. > Will be looking at the beam angle I get from these reflectors & available glass? > lenses, before making up a housing. Looking for a borosilicate lense > because of the heat transfer & low expansion. > I have taken a different route from Ken, but this process he started has > been very helpful & motivating, as has been the discussion & information > that has come out.? > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 1/09/2015, at 9:42 am, Alan wrote: > I bought a 24-36V 6000 lm & 4000 lm LED array along with drivers,? > & have another lot in the post. > The driv > > Sent from my iPad > > On 1/09/2015, at 4:09 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Ken is in Ireland on a holiday but before he left, he had finished the design of the LED Driver power stage.? Still working on the housing but have been sidetracked the last month on getting my boat ready to dive after major upgraded over the last 18 months.?Hope to get back on the Light housing shortly.? I did dive the new 5K LED light this weekend and it worked great. > ? > Cliff > ? > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 8:09 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > What has happened with the light build? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 19892 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 3 12:31:55 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sam Buck via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 12:31:55 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Driver Message-ID: <026922A8-8D73-4127-A648-B4E5EE1053E3@sacunderwatertechnologies.com> Hi! Thanks for joining PBGU on Boilerlink. You?ll probably want to go to purdue.edu/boardgamers to join us, since we don?t use Boilerlink for anything, and so won?t approve your request until we clear out the queue every few months or so. Please head on over to www.purdue.edu/boardgamers to get all the information you?ll want about who we are and when we meet - we?re looking forward to getting to know you! On Sep 2, 2015, at 6:17 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > You are right, there wasn?t much information and I found it confusing. > ? > Hope your 60 watt works OK. If their statement about step down is correct then your LED run voltage has to be less than your input voltage. > ? > The circuit contains an aluminum electrolytic capacitor which makes me question the reliability. But sometimes it still works. > ? > Have fun, > ? > Ken > ? > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 5:36 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Driver > ? > Ken, > that site didn't have a lot of information. > This documentation on Ebay desribes them as constant voltage, constant current drivers > suitable for high power LEDs.? > LED Power Driver Constant Voltage Current Adjust CC CV > ? > ? > ? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 6000 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: unknown.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 536 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- > > ? > ? > ? > ? > ? > LED Power Driver Constant Voltage Current Adjust CC CV > US $11.00 New in Business & Industrial, Electrical & Test Equipment, Test Equipment > > View on www.ebay.com > Preview by Yahoo > > ? > > > > > > > > > It does say to heat sink it if running more than 25W. Heatsink version available on his site.? > When I mentioned the price to my LED friend yesterday > he was a bit dubious & suggested I might get what I payed for. > You have prompted me to do a bit more experimentation; so have it running at the moment > driving a 60W LED & will see how long it runs for. > Hope you enjoyed the trip to Ireland. > Alan > ? > > From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 8:39 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Driver > ? > I looked at this chip and it?s primarily a buck voltage regulator not intended for use as a constant current LED driver. > ? > You can try using it but I?m not optimistic about them. > ? > Let me know if it works. > ? > Ken Martindale > ? > ? > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 8:02 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Driver > ? > Bought this LED driver & a 4000 & 6000 lumen emitter. > It may be helpful with regard to our open source light. > This one describes itself as having a wattage output limitation,? > beyond which cooling is required. This may be just a heat sink but > I'm not sure.? > There are other higher powered constant voltage, constant > current drivers on site.? > There was no description of how it worked with the product, but managed to > find one on the site posted at the bottom. The blue trim-pot on the left > increases voltage by a clockwise turning & the right trim-pot increases current. > Alan > LED Power Driver Constant Voltage / Current Adjustable Module - Blue + Black > ? > ? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 9282 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: unknown.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 662 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- > > ? > ? > ? > ? > ? > LED Power Driver Constant Voltage / Current Adjustable... > I like this from DX. Find the cool gadgets at a incredibly low price with worldwide free shipping here. > > View on www.dx.com > Preview by Yahoo > > ? > > > > > > > > > ? > ? > 1~35V DC 25W Power LED Driver Supply LM2596 CC CV Light [Constant Voltage Current_A] - $15.00 : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce > ? > ? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 3563 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: unknown.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 568 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- > > ? > ? > ? > ? > ? > 1~35V DC 25W Power LED Driver Supply LM2596 CC CV... > Zen Cart! 1~35V DC 25W Power LED Driver Supply LM2596 CC CV Light [Constant Voltage Current_A] - LED Power Driver Constant Voltage / Current Adjustable C... > > View on www.xscyz.com > Preview by Yahoo > > ? > > > > > > > > > ? > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 3755 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 3 12:31:56 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sam Buck via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 12:31:56 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense Message-ID: <96546E85-6D13-4A10-B3E1-07D53D88591B@sacunderwatertechnologies.com> Hi! Thanks for joining PBGU on Boilerlink. You?ll probably want to go to purdue.edu/boardgamers to join us, since we don?t use Boilerlink for anything, and so won?t approve your request until we clear out the queue every few months or so. Please head on over to www.purdue.edu/boardgamers to get all the information you?ll want about who we are and when we meet - we?re looking forward to getting to know you! On Sep 2, 2015, at 6:54 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Putting the driver in the hull is certainly feasible and has appeal but that requires a change in our spec and Cliff needs to wade into this. > ? > That?s why we wrote the spec. not as a cast in concrete but what most of the PSubs wanted (maybe). > ? > Bear in mind the driver will still need a small heat sink to dissipate about 11 or 12 watts and that makes the light into two parts. > ? > We certainly need the LEDs to be cooled by the water. > ? > Ken > ? > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 6:07 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense > ? > Ken, > it may be worth looking at whether we design this light with the driver in the hull. > I have covered this in another email, but additionally, the commercial standing > lamp I saw, that was using the latest 100W LED array had alluminium heat sinks > about 3" long & about 10 of them, out the back. So heat will be a big problem. > If we keep the driver in the hull it won't get cooked, & we can heat sink the emitter > straight to the back of the housing where it will be cooled by water. > Alan > ? > ? > > From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 9:54 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense > ? > Alan, > ? > Usually if the driver is a true current source the extra wire doesn?t make much difference (within reason). > ? > Also most drivers filter the switching waveform so the current to the LED is mostly a dc tern with a very low AC component. > ? > Take a look at the design we have on the forum tomorrow late to see what the present design is. > ? > Ken > ? > ? > ? > ? > ? > ? > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, August 31, 2015 8:49 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense > ? > Hank, that's a good question for Ken. > As I understand it, the LED drivers have a switching frequency so are turning on & off > the power to the LED. When electricity runs through wire it creates a magnetic field & > when the power is switched off, the magnetic field collapses & causes a surge of electricity. > Like a coil in a car creating a spark across a spark plug. The LED doesn't like this.? > The longer the run of wire, the more inductance is created. The capacitor is a buffer for this > & there are big ones on high power LED drivers. They are there to combat the inductance from? > the battery to the driver, but by lengthening the wiring from driver to LED you create the? > problem out the other side. Perhaps a capacitor could be placed in the light fitting, & the > driver in the pressure hull. This would reduce the footprint inside the fitting & stop the rest of the electronics from being exposed to any heat build up. you would still have the problem > of pressure on the capacitor if you compensated though. Have seen pressure resistant > capacitors, but don't know enough about them. > I will go & see a friend who is an expert on this. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 1/09/2015, at 11:20 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Alan,v > Why can't the driver stay inside the submarine, why put it in the housing? > Hank > ? > ? > On Monday, August 31, 2015 4:55 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > ? > Hank, > you have got me thinking. I don't want to pressure compensate because of the capacitors > in the driver. I was also concerned that any fluid might yellow with the heat. > According to this article, the main problem with LED lights is disipating the heat that comes > out the back of the emmitter. > http://www.deepsea.com/wp-content/uploads/article-Application-of-High-Power-LEDs-UI08.pdf > I could seal off the driver compartment at the back of the emmitter & fill that with oil. However > I will be machining this out of alluminium rod & can keep the enclosure round the driver pretty small > so there isn't much of an air gap to the housing. > Could easily experiment with & without oil to see if it makes much difference. > Alan > ? > ? > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 10:09 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense > ? > Alan, > I assume your going with a?pressure housing? ?why not fill the pressure housing 95% full of oil to tsf the heat to the water? > Hank > ? > ? > ? > On Monday, August 31, 2015 4:00 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > ? > Sorry part 2 ( ipad & big fingers) > The LED cost $11- & the driver $6-. ?Free delivery. > I have ordered a number of reflectors for a couple of dollars each. > The driver is quite small. With the automated assembly processes > & micro sized components, you can't get anywhere near this size > soldering on the components yourself. > Because of the heat factor I am limiting myself to the 6000lm LED. > Will be looking at the beam angle I get from these reflectors & available glass? > lenses, before making up a housing. Looking for a borosilicate lense > because of the heat transfer & low expansion. > I have taken a different route from Ken, but this process he started has > been very helpful & motivating, as has been the discussion & information > that has come out.? > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 1/09/2015, at 9:42 am, Alan wrote: > I bought a 24-36V 6000 lm & 4000 lm LED array along with drivers,? > & have another lot in the post. > The driv > > Sent from my iPad > > On 1/09/2015, at 4:09 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Ken is in Ireland on a holiday but before he left, he had finished the design of the LED Driver power stage.? Still working on the housing but have been sidetracked the last month on getting my boat ready to dive after major upgraded over the last 18 months.?Hope to get back on the Light housing shortly.? I did dive the new 5K LED light this weekend and it worked great. > ? > Cliff > ? > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 8:09 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > What has happened with the light build? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 27407 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 3 12:31:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sam Buck via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 12:31:54 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense Message-ID: <1DA43ADD-0801-4D27-843B-203B6D1E60E2@sacunderwatertechnologies.com> Hi! Thanks for joining PBGU on Boilerlink. You?ll probably want to go to purdue.edu/boardgamers to join us, since we don?t use Boilerlink for anything, and so won?t approve your request until we clear out the queue every few months or so. Please head on over to www.purdue.edu/boardgamers to get all the information you?ll want about who we are and when we meet - we?re looking forward to getting to know you! On Sep 2, 2015, at 6:06 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Ken, > it may be worth looking at whether we design this light with the driver in the hull. > I have covered this in another email, but additionally, the commercial standing > lamp I saw, that was using the latest 100W LED array had alluminium heat sinks > about 3" long & about 10 of them, out the back. So heat will be a big problem. > If we keep the driver in the hull it won't get cooked, & we can heat sink the emitter > straight to the back of the housing where it will be cooled by water. > Alan > > > > From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 9:54 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense > > Alan, > ? > Usually if the driver is a true current source the extra wire doesn?t make much difference (within reason). > ? > Also most drivers filter the switching waveform so the current to the LED is mostly a dc tern with a very low AC component. > ? > Take a look at the design we have on the forum tomorrow late to see what the present design is. > ? > Ken > ? > ? > ? > ? > ? > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, August 31, 2015 8:49 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense > ? > Hank, that's a good question for Ken. > As I understand it, the LED drivers have a switching frequency so are turning on & off > the power to the LED. When electricity runs through wire it creates a magnetic field & > when the power is switched off, the magnetic field collapses & causes a surge of electricity. > Like a coil in a car creating a spark across a spark plug. The LED doesn't like this.? > The longer the run of wire, the more inductance is created. The capacitor is a buffer for this > & there are big ones on high power LED drivers. They are there to combat the inductance from? > the battery to the driver, but by lengthening the wiring from driver to LED you create the? > problem out the other side. Perhaps a capacitor could be placed in the light fitting, & the > driver in the pressure hull. This would reduce the footprint inside the fitting & stop the rest of the electronics from being exposed to any heat build up. you would still have the problem > of pressure on the capacitor if you compensated though. Have seen pressure resistant > capacitors, but don't know enough about them. > I will go & see a friend who is an expert on this. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 1/09/2015, at 11:20 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Alan,v > Why can't the driver stay inside the submarine, why put it in the housing? > Hank > ? > ? > On Monday, August 31, 2015 4:55 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > ? > Hank, > you have got me thinking. I don't want to pressure compensate because of the capacitors > in the driver. I was also concerned that any fluid might yellow with the heat. > According to this article, the main problem with LED lights is disipating the heat that comes > out the back of the emmitter. > http://www.deepsea.com/wp-content/uploads/article-Application-of-High-Power-LEDs-UI08.pdf > > I could seal off the driver compartment at the back of the emmitter & fill that with oil. However > I will be machining this out of alluminium rod & can keep the enclosure round the driver pretty small > so there isn't much of an air gap to the housing. > Could easily experiment with & without oil to see if it makes much difference. > Alan > ? > ? > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 10:09 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense > ? > Alan, > I assume your going with a?pressure housing? ?why not fill the pressure housing 95% full of oil to tsf the heat to the water? > Hank > ? > ? > ? > On Monday, August 31, 2015 4:00 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > ? > Sorry part 2 ( ipad & big fingers) > The LED cost $11- & the driver $6-. ?Free delivery. > I have ordered a number of reflectors for a couple of dollars each. > The driver is quite small. With the automated assembly processes > & micro sized components, you can't get anywhere near this size > soldering on the components yourself. > Because of the heat factor I am limiting myself to the 6000lm LED. > Will be looking at the beam angle I get from these reflectors & available glass? > lenses, before making up a housing. Looking for a borosilicate lense > because of the heat transfer & low expansion. > I have taken a different route from Ken, but this process he started has > been very helpful & motivating, as has been the discussion & information > that has come out.? > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 1/09/2015, at 9:42 am, Alan wrote: > I bought a 24-36V 6000 lm & 4000 lm LED array along with drivers,? > & have another lot in the post. > The driv > > Sent from my iPad > > On 1/09/2015, at 4:09 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Ken is in Ireland on a holiday but before he left, he had finished the design of the LED Driver power stage.? Still working on the housing but have been sidetracked the last month on getting my boat ready to dive after major upgraded over the last 18 months.?Hope to get back on the Light housing shortly.? I did dive the new 5K LED light this weekend and it worked great. > ? > Cliff > ? > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 8:09 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > What has happened with the light build? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 17248 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 3 12:31:58 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sam Buck via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 12:31:58 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense Message-ID: Hi! Thanks for joining PBGU on Boilerlink. You?ll probably want to go to purdue.edu/boardgamers to join us, since we don?t use Boilerlink for anything, and so won?t approve your request until we clear out the queue every few months or so. Please head on over to www.purdue.edu/boardgamers to get all the information you?ll want about who we are and when we meet - we?re looking forward to getting to know you! On Sep 2, 2015, at 11:25 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > OK Cliff; > I am making up a 36V 60W light with the LED driver in the hull. > Thanks Hank for the suggestion. > I can still try out Ken's driver, along with the driver I have, & the others I have on order. > I am thinking of just glueing a lense on to the light housing. This will reduce the > profile & save a lot of work machining screw holes, o-ring grooves & a clamping plate. > Have run my 60W emitter for a couple of hours & it isn't getting exsessively hot out the front > so am looking at the acrylic lense option that I previously thought may not be too good. > If I want to re-use the housing, should the emitter fail, I can mill out the acrylic lense. > Or just throw away. > Alan > > > > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 11:43 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense > > I am with Ken on this.? The spec is written and that is what we have been designing to.?? I think having a second enclosure in the pressure hull to hold most of the electronics would work and you could run multiple lights off this hub.? Deep Sea Power and Light have an LED option like this.? Having said that, for this first light, I think we should stick with the spec and design a self contained 10K light.? Nothing prevents anyone from taking the electronics design that Ken comes up with and the housing that I develop and morph these in one way or another to fit their need.? > > Cliff > > > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 5:54 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Putting the driver in the hull is certainly feasible and has appeal but that requires a change in our spec and Cliff needs to wade into this. > ? > That?s why we wrote the spec. not as a cast in concrete but what most of the PSubs wanted (maybe). > ? > Bear in mind the driver will still need a small heat sink to dissipate about 11 or 12 watts and that makes the light into two parts. > ? > We certainly need the LEDs to be cooled by the water. > ? > Ken > ? > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 6:07 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense > ? > Ken, > it may be worth looking at whether we design this light with the driver in the hull. > I have covered this in another email, but additionally, the commercial standing > lamp I saw, that was using the latest 100W LED array had alluminium heat sinks > about 3" long & about 10 of them, out the back. So heat will be a big problem. > If we keep the driver in the hull it won't get cooked, & we can heat sink the emitter > straight to the back of the housing where it will be cooled by water. > Alan > ? > ? > > From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 9:54 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense > ? > Alan, > ? > Usually if the driver is a true current source the extra wire doesn?t make much difference (within reason). > ? > Also most drivers filter the switching waveform so the current to the LED is mostly a dc tern with a very low AC component. > ? > Take a look at the design we have on the forum tomorrow late to see what the present design is. > ? > Ken > ? > ? > ? > ? > ? > ? > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, August 31, 2015 8:49 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense > ? > Hank, that's a good question for Ken. > As I understand it, the LED drivers have a switching frequency so are turning on & off > the power to the LED. When electricity runs through wire it creates a magnetic field & > when the power is switched off, the magnetic field collapses & causes a surge of electricity. > Like a coil in a car creating a spark across a spark plug. The LED doesn't like this.? > The longer the run of wire, the more inductance is created. The capacitor is a buffer for this > & there are big ones on high power LED drivers. They are there to combat the inductance from? > the battery to the driver, but by lengthening the wiring from driver to LED you create the? > problem out the other side. Perhaps a capacitor could be placed in the light fitting, & the > driver in the pressure hull. This would reduce the footprint inside the fitting & stop the rest of the electronics from being exposed to any heat build up. you would still have the problem > of pressure on the capacitor if you compensated though. Have seen pressure resistant > capacitors, but don't know enough about them. > I will go & see a friend who is an expert on this. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 1/09/2015, at 11:20 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Alan,v > Why can't the driver stay inside the submarine, why put it in the housing? > Hank > ? > ? > On Monday, August 31, 2015 4:55 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > ? > Hank, > you have got me thinking. I don't want to pressure compensate because of the capacitors > in the driver. I was also concerned that any fluid might yellow with the heat. > According to this article, the main problem with LED lights is disipating the heat that comes > out the back of the emmitter. > http://www.deepsea.com/wp-content/uploads/article-Application-of-High-Power-LEDs-UI08.pdf > I could seal off the driver compartment at the back of the emmitter & fill that with oil. However > I will be machining this out of alluminium rod & can keep the enclosure round the driver pretty small > so there isn't much of an air gap to the housing. > Could easily experiment with & without oil to see if it makes much difference. > Alan > ? > ? > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 10:09 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense > ? > Alan, > I assume your going with a?pressure housing? ?why not fill the pressure housing 95% full of oil to tsf the heat to the water? > Hank > ? > ? > ? > On Monday, August 31, 2015 4:00 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > ? > Sorry part 2 ( ipad & big fingers) > The LED cost $11- & the driver $6-.? Free delivery. > I have ordered a number of reflectors for a couple of dollars each. > The driver is quite small. With the automated assembly processes > & micro sized components, you can't get anywhere near this size > soldering on the components yourself. > Because of the heat factor I am limiting myself to the 6000lm LED. > Will be looking at the beam angle I get from these reflectors & available glass? > lenses, before making up a housing. Looking for a borosilicate lense > because of the heat transfer & low expansion. > I have taken a different route from Ken, but this process he started has > been very helpful & motivating, as has been the discussion & information > that has come out.? > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 1/09/2015, at 9:42 am, Alan wrote: > I bought a 24-36V 6000 lm & 4000 lm LED array along with drivers,? > & have another lot in the post. > The driv > > Sent from my iPad > > On 1/09/2015, at 4:09 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Ken is in Ireland on a holiday but before he left, he had finished the design of the LED Driver power stage.? Still working on the housing but have been sidetracked the last month on getting my boat ready to dive after major upgraded over the last 18 months.?Hope to get back on the Light housing shortly.? I did dive the new 5K LED light this weekend and it worked great. > ? > Cliff > ? > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 8:09 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > What has happened with the light build? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 20360 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 3 12:32:02 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sam Buck via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 12:32:02 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ballast idea Message-ID: Hi! Thanks for joining PBGU on Boilerlink. You?ll probably want to go to purdue.edu/boardgamers to join us, since we don?t use Boilerlink for anything, and so won?t approve your request until we clear out the queue every few months or so. Please head on over to www.purdue.edu/boardgamers to get all the information you?ll want about who we are and when we meet - we?re looking forward to getting to know you! On Sep 2, 2015, at 6:26 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Ha Ha funny > > > > > On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 4:14 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I sent that email 9 days ago. Must have gone by ship.:) > Alan > > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 10:00 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ballast idea > > Alan > I was thinking of a way to keep the bubble the same size as the sub descends, it would need a check valve so when you put air into the ballast tank, it would not just pass through the regulator. ?I was just thinking out loud, not a great idea :-) ?I need a few bad ideas between the good ones. > Hank > > > > > > On Monday, August 24, 2015 8:13 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Not sure what you mean there Hank. > No air should come out of the 2nd stage regulator unless there is a > presure difference on it's diaphram. > Are you wanting just a slower flow of low pressure air or are you thinking? > of some sort of automatic hovering system. > P.S. wonder what will happen to the American dollar when Donald Trump > becomes president? > Alan > > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 1:12 PM > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ballast idea > > When I dive with a passenger ?the sub is more difficult to control. I don't bother with fine weight adjustments. ?If Gamma is 50 lb over weight, I don't worry about it. ?I just add air to the ballast faster than normal. ?When training my kids, it is tricky for them. ?I have a solution, maybe. ?I am thinking about having an external scuba first and second stage regulator connected to each ballast tank. ? As soon as the hatch is under, send air to the first stage regulator, then use thrusters to sink. ?Or, start sinking slowly then send air to the regulator to maintain sink speed. ?Might be fun to play with. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 7224 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 3 12:32:04 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sam Buck via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 12:32:04 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ballast idea Message-ID: <42034E6A-B458-4E27-892D-DDAD64E88423@sacunderwatertechnologies.com> Hi! Thanks for joining PBGU on Boilerlink. You?ll probably want to go to purdue.edu/boardgamers to join us, since we don?t use Boilerlink for anything, and so won?t approve your request until we clear out the queue every few months or so. Please head on over to www.purdue.edu/boardgamers to get all the information you?ll want about who we are and when we meet - we?re looking forward to getting to know you! On Sep 2, 2015, at 6:11 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I sent that email 9 days ago. Must have gone by ship.:) > Alan > > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 10:00 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ballast idea > > Alan > I was thinking of a way to keep the bubble the same size as the sub descends, it would need a check valve so when you put air into the ballast tank, it would not just pass through the regulator. ?I was just thinking out loud, not a great idea :-) ?I need a few bad ideas between the good ones. > Hank > > > > > > On Monday, August 24, 2015 8:13 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Not sure what you mean there Hank. > No air should come out of the 2nd stage regulator unless there is a > presure difference on it's diaphram. > Are you wanting just a slower flow of low pressure air or are you thinking? > of some sort of automatic hovering system. > P.S. wonder what will happen to the American dollar when Donald Trump > becomes president? > Alan > > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 1:12 PM > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ballast idea > > When I dive with a passenger ?the sub is more difficult to control. I don't bother with fine weight adjustments. ?If Gamma is 50 lb over weight, I don't worry about it. ?I just add air to the ballast faster than normal. ?When training my kids, it is tricky for them. ?I have a solution, maybe. ?I am thinking about having an external scuba first and second stage regulator connected to each ballast tank. ? As soon as the hatch is under, send air to the first stage regulator, then use thrusters to sink. ?Or, start sinking slowly then send air to the regulator to maintain sink speed. ?Might be fun to play with. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 6294 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 3 12:32:04 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sam Buck via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 12:32:04 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ballast idea Message-ID: Hi! Thanks for joining PBGU on Boilerlink. You?ll probably want to go to purdue.edu/boardgamers to join us, since we don?t use Boilerlink for anything, and so won?t approve your request until we clear out the queue every few months or so. Please head on over to www.purdue.edu/boardgamers to get all the information you?ll want about who we are and when we meet - we?re looking forward to getting to know you! On Sep 2, 2015, at 6:00 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Alan > I was thinking of a way to keep the bubble the same size as the sub descends, it would need a check valve so when you put air into the ballast tank, it would not just pass through the regulator. ?I was just thinking out loud, not a great idea :-) ?I need a few bad ideas between the good ones. > Hank > > > > On Monday, August 24, 2015 8:13 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Not sure what you mean there Hank. > No air should come out of the 2nd stage regulator unless there is a > presure difference on it's diaphram. > Are you wanting just a slower flow of low pressure air or are you thinking? > of some sort of automatic hovering system. > P.S. wonder what will happen to the American dollar when Donald Trump > becomes president? > Alan > > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 1:12 PM > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ballast idea > > When I dive with a passenger ?the sub is more difficult to control. I don't bother with fine weight adjustments. ?If Gamma is 50 lb over weight, I don't worry about it. ?I just add air to the ballast faster than normal. ?When training my kids, it is tricky for them. ?I have a solution, maybe. ?I am thinking about having an external scuba first and second stage regulator connected to each ballast tank. ? As soon as the hatch is under, send air to the first stage regulator, then use thrusters to sink. ?Or, start sinking slowly then send air to the regulator to maintain sink speed. ?Might be fun to play with. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 4654 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 3 12:38:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sam Buck via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 12:38:51 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense In-Reply-To: <96546E85-6D13-4A10-B3E1-07D53D88591B@sacunderwatertechnologies.com> References: <96546E85-6D13-4A10-B3E1-07D53D88591B@sacunderwatertechnologies.com> Message-ID: Sorry all, Technical Fault. Sam Buck > On Sep 3, 2015, at 12:31 PM, Sam Buck via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi! Thanks for joining PBGU on Boilerlink. You?ll probably want to go to purdue.edu/boardgamers to join us, since we don?t use Boilerlink for anything, and so won?t approve your request until we clear out the queue every few months or so. Please head on over to www.purdue.edu/boardgamers to get all the information you?ll want about who we are and when we meet - we?re looking forward to getting to know you! > > On Sep 2, 2015, at 6:54 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Putting the driver in the hull is certainly feasible and has appeal but that requires a change in our spec and Cliff needs to wade into this. > > That?s why we wrote the spec. not as a cast in concrete but what most of the PSubs wanted (maybe). > > Bear in mind the driver will still need a small heat sink to dissipate about 11 or 12 watts and that makes the light into two parts. > > We certainly need the LEDs to be cooled by the water. > > Ken > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 6:07 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense > > Ken, > it may be worth looking at whether we design this light with the driver in the hull. > I have covered this in another email, but additionally, the commercial standing > lamp I saw, that was using the latest 100W LED array had alluminium heat sinks > about 3" long & about 10 of them, out the back. So heat will be a big problem. > If we keep the driver in the hull it won't get cooked, & we can heat sink the emitter > straight to the back of the housing where it will be cooled by water. > Alan > > > > From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 9:54 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense > > Alan, > > Usually if the driver is a true current source the extra wire doesn?t make much difference (within reason). > > Also most drivers filter the switching waveform so the current to the LED is mostly a dc tern with a very low AC component. > > Take a look at the design we have on the forum tomorrow late to see what the present design is. > > Ken > > > > > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, August 31, 2015 8:49 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense > > Hank, that's a good question for Ken. > As I understand it, the LED drivers have a switching frequency so are turning on & off > the power to the LED. When electricity runs through wire it creates a magnetic field & > when the power is switched off, the magnetic field collapses & causes a surge of electricity. > Like a coil in a car creating a spark across a spark plug. The LED doesn't like this. > The longer the run of wire, the more inductance is created. The capacitor is a buffer for this > & there are big ones on high power LED drivers. They are there to combat the inductance from > the battery to the driver, but by lengthening the wiring from driver to LED you create the > problem out the other side. Perhaps a capacitor could be placed in the light fitting, & the > driver in the pressure hull. This would reduce the footprint inside the fitting & stop the rest of the electronics from being exposed to any heat build up. you would still have the problem > of pressure on the capacitor if you compensated though. Have seen pressure resistant > capacitors, but don't know enough about them. > I will go & see a friend who is an expert on this. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 1/09/2015, at 11:20 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Alan,v > Why can't the driver stay inside the submarine, why put it in the housing? > Hank > > > On Monday, August 31, 2015 4:55 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > you have got me thinking. I don't want to pressure compensate because of the capacitors > in the driver. I was also concerned that any fluid might yellow with the heat. > According to this article, the main problem with LED lights is disipating the heat that comes > out the back of the emmitter. > http://www.deepsea.com/wp-content/uploads/article-Application-of-High-Power-LEDs-UI08.pdf > I could seal off the driver compartment at the back of the emmitter & fill that with oil. However > I will be machining this out of alluminium rod & can keep the enclosure round the driver pretty small > so there isn't much of an air gap to the housing. > Could easily experiment with & without oil to see if it makes much difference. > Alan > > > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 10:09 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Light lense > > Alan, > I assume your going with a pressure housing? why not fill the pressure housing 95% full of oil to tsf the heat to the water? > Hank > > > > On Monday, August 31, 2015 4:00 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Sorry part 2 ( ipad & big fingers) > The LED cost $11- & the driver $6-. Free delivery. > I have ordered a number of reflectors for a couple of dollars each. > The driver is quite small. With the automated assembly processes > & micro sized components, you can't get anywhere near this size > soldering on the components yourself. > Because of the heat factor I am limiting myself to the 6000lm LED. > Will be looking at the beam angle I get from these reflectors & available glass > lenses, before making up a housing. Looking for a borosilicate lense > because of the heat transfer & low expansion. > I have taken a different route from Ken, but this process he started has > been very helpful & motivating, as has been the discussion & information > that has come out. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 1/09/2015, at 9:42 am, Alan wrote: > I bought a 24-36V 6000 lm & 4000 lm LED array along with drivers, > & have another lot in the post. > The driv > > Sent from my iPad > > On 1/09/2015, at 4:09 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Ken is in Ireland on a holiday but before he left, he had finished the design of the LED Driver power stage. Still working on the housing but have been sidetracked the last month on getting my boat ready to dive after major upgraded over the last 18 months. Hope to get back on the Light housing shortly. I did dive the new 5K LED light this weekend and it worked great. > > Cliff > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 8:09 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > What has happened with the light build? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 3 21:02:59 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 21:02:59 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Schematics for the 10,000 lumen LED light Message-ID: <000401d0e6ad$712b53e0$5381fba0$@cfl.rr.com> I have attached two schematics to the forum today 8/7/2015. Take a look and comment and or ask questions on the forum. I still have some work to do. I need to come up with the EMI Filter and do some stability analysis. This requires a Fourier analysis and some PSpice work. Once that is all settled the PWB is next after Cliff and I agree on the packaging. Ken -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 3 21:05:02 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 21:05:02 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Schematics for LED light Message-ID: <000901d0e6ad$baa06970$2fe13c50$@cfl.rr.com> That?s 9/3/2015, it?s late. Ken -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 4 22:15:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 19:15:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Swagelock Message-ID: <20150904191500.954F0FDC@m0005296.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 4 23:00:15 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 23:00:15 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx Message-ID: <94103.6f584dfc.431bb4bf@aol.com> Cliff, Why did you decide to remove the VBT? Was it problems with the VBT system, need for the space, or...? Thanks, Jim In a message dated 9/2/2015 7:22:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Alec, Agreed, I carry a bypass cable to power up my motor in case the controller quits. Bypass switch is a must! Hank On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 6:04 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, same battery. On Tuesday, September 1, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: That's real weird Cliff, especially the fact that 2 separate units are playing up. The only common denominator is the batteries I suppose. Are they both drawing from the same batteries? Alan ____________________________________ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ () > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ () > Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2015 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx They shut down at about 3 PM on Sunday. I disassembled them today expecting them to be filled with water but they were dry. I reassembled today. I charged the batteries up last night so they were full charged this morning. When I powered the thrusters up today, the were at ambient temperature and the controllers had been sitting all night so they were cool. The thrusters started up misbehaving like they did when they shut down, i.e., would not spin up. After playing with them for about 10 minutes they both came back to life a few minutes apart. They have been running fine ever since. Cliff On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 9:00 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ () > wrote: Cliff, How much time lapsed before they fixed themselves? maybe they needed encouragement to restart because they were just on cusp of being cooled enough. Hank On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 7:39 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ () > wrote: Wonderful detailed report Cliff! My theory is a thermal shutdown of the controllers as Hank suggested. Although I have no documentation on their speed controllers, the fact it fixed itself suggests that. But then on the other hand why did it take all that switching on and off to reset? This reinforces my intention to put a speed controller override into the new boat. Best, Alec On Sep 1, 2015, at 5:40 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ () > wrote: I took the R300 out this weekend. This was the first time to have it back in water since the 2013 Psub convention in Islamorada. The objective of the dive was to evaluate some fairly significant modifications. To improve low speed maneuverability and reduce noise, I junked the jet pump and ailerons and went to four fixed MK 101 thrusters. I also junked the VBT and just add ballast to get neutral. Also I added a Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor to measure altitude, speed and water temperature. It worked great. Installed a new LED 5k light, upgraded to a new HMI, and changed the foot and joystick controls. I also rewired the main battery bank for 36VDC rather than 120VDC and installed four MK 101 motor controllers. I modified the aft horizontal MK-101s by adding Kort nozzles and used air to pressure compensate. I used the same pressure reducing regulator Hugh Fulton posted about awhile back that he is using on the QSub. The changes decreased the weight of boat by 200 lbs while the displacement remained the same. My son, wife, a diving friend and I took the boat to Canyon Lake in Texas this Sunday. Visibility was less than 5 ft so could not see much. My main interest at this point was just to get into water. After launching the boat, I did some testing to get the base line ballast both mid-ship and in the stern correct so that I could get neutral and trim after flooding the MBT. After establishing the fixed ballast, I took the boat out to test how the horizontal thrusters work for surface maneuvering. I was very happy with way the horizontal thrusters performed. Surface maneuverability was excellent and these motors are supper quite. I did find that you could cavitate the props on the surface if you hit it with too much power. As before the changes, when you get up to about 4 knots, the bow wave obscures the pilots vision. Breaking is much improved and it is now possible to rotate on the surface or in the water column. I then took the boat out for the first submerged maneuvering. The vertical thrusters were very effective for depth control, pitch and roll control. I found that it was much easier to get to specific depth and hold this depth using the vertical thrusters than the old way I did it with the VBT. They worked great. While removing the VBT simplified dive operations, it did result in loss of freeboard of about 1 inch. This is a downside of removing the VBT as the freeboard was already quite low. I just have to be careful when opening the hatch. I opened and closed that hatch throughout the day and only took splash one time when a boat came by I did not see. The new Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor worked great. With visibility less than 5 ft, being able to know the altitude was very helpful on dives. As usual, it got darker as you descend but knowing when the bottom was coming up was nice. On the negative side, during the last dive of the day, the vertical thrusters failed while my son was on bottom in about 27 ft of water. He had to surface using the MBT. Why these thrusters failed is a mystery. It was at the end of the day and I had pushed the batteries pretty hard all day along but we still had plenty of battery voltage. My sons second attempt to surface was to put some air in the forward MBT to lift the nose and then use the aft horizontal thrusters to power to the surface. This failed as aft horizontal thrusters were not responsive. After surfacing with the MBT, we discovered that tree limb about 1.5? diameter had lodged in the starboard horizontal thruster between the prop and the Kort nozzle. This explains why we lost horizontal thrust but not vertical. After getting the boat back on the trailer, I tested the vertical thrusters. They would barely turn even when giving them full power. My first guess was that the air pressure compensation system failed and the thrusters were full of water. When I got the boat back to my workshop, I disassembled both vertical thrusters and discovered they were dry. After recharging the boat, I tried the vertical thrusters again and got the same slow speed operation. After turning them off and on for about five minutes, the starboard vertical thruster stared working correctly. I kept switching the port vertical thruster off and on and all of a sudden, it began working correctly. When I had the motors apart, I put a multimeter on the wires going to the brushes and found it showing 35VDC. At this point the control signal to these motors was 2.5V so voltage to the motors should have been zero. My guess is that the MK motor controller is acting up. But it is strange that both the vertical controllers would fail. Also, if it were bad motor controllers, then why did they both start working again. This is still a head stumper for me. Also towards the end of the day, the OTS underwater communication stared acting up. Base and standby diver using an OTS Guardian full face mask could hear underwater transmissions from me but I could not receive either from the diver or from the base. The underwater commns had been working great for the previous 7 hours. I was also having trouble about this time with the VHF radio that Alec gave me. Again I could not receive. When I get a chance I am going to see if the connection to the antenna got disconnected. One of the nice new features of the new HMI besides being larger and having a higher resolution, was it has built in data logging. So after the dive it was very nice to be able to download into Excel about 50 variables logged at a one minute interval. I was able to plot these and get a detailed picture of how all the ship systems were working during the day. If anyone has any thoughts on why the vertical MK 101 thruster motors failed, or have had any negative experience with the MK101 motor controllers, I would love to hear them. When they are working, they are great. All in all, I was very happy with the changes but have a few kinks to work out before I take her out again. Now if I could just find some clear water to dive in, I would be a happy camper! Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ () http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ () http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ () http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ () http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 5 07:02:28 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 11:02:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Driver In-Reply-To: <013601d0e5cd$393c8bb0$abb5a310$@cfl.rr.com> References: <994134746.6326020.1439899330736.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <00e201d0e5bf$69fda850$3df8f8f0$@cfl.rr.com> <1951635587.617913.1441229783356.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <013601d0e5cd$393c8bb0$abb5a310$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <895194104.1898649.1441450948447.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Update on my LED driver.Had my 60W LED running for 20 hours & upon recheckingthe amps I found I was only drawing .28 amps not 2.8 amps as I had first thoughtso no wonder it was running cool. The output of the light seemed quite highso it had me fooled. I was only running it at 7.28W.I wound it up to 1 amp ?(27W) ?& it got really hot quite quickly.The driver seemed to revert to .5 of an amp when I tested it again & I couldn'tget any more than that on that driver or the spare one I had.I have a beefyer driver that I'll try in the near future.A thought that came to mind was that it may be an advantage using Ken's100W emitter and operating it at something like 50W so it's running a lot cooler.Another thought is that if there is a potentiometer in Ken's design for adjustingthe amps, then for those that want to put the driver in the hull, this could be usedas a dimming control.Cheers Alan From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Driver #yiv6395798372 #yiv6395798372 -- _filtered #yiv6395798372 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv6395798372 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv6395798372 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv6395798372 {font-family:Georgia;panose-1:2 4 5 2 5 4 5 2 3 3;}#yiv6395798372 #yiv6395798372 p.yiv6395798372MsoNormal, #yiv6395798372 li.yiv6395798372MsoNormal, #yiv6395798372 div.yiv6395798372MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv6395798372 a:link, #yiv6395798372 span.yiv6395798372MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6395798372 a:visited, #yiv6395798372 span.yiv6395798372MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6395798372 span.yiv6395798372link-enhancr-element {}#yiv6395798372 span.yiv6395798372link-enhancr-view-on-domain {}#yiv6395798372 p.yiv6395798372msonormal, #yiv6395798372 li.yiv6395798372msonormal, #yiv6395798372 div.yiv6395798372msonormal {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv6395798372 p.yiv6395798372msochpdefault, #yiv6395798372 li.yiv6395798372msochpdefault, #yiv6395798372 div.yiv6395798372msochpdefault {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv6395798372 span.yiv6395798372msohyperlink {}#yiv6395798372 span.yiv6395798372msohyperlinkfollowed {}#yiv6395798372 span.yiv6395798372emailstyle19 {}#yiv6395798372 p.yiv6395798372msonormal1, #yiv6395798372 li.yiv6395798372msonormal1, #yiv6395798372 div.yiv6395798372msonormal1 {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv6395798372 span.yiv6395798372msohyperlink1 {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6395798372 span.yiv6395798372msohyperlinkfollowed1 {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6395798372 span.yiv6395798372emailstyle191 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv6395798372 p.yiv6395798372msochpdefault1, #yiv6395798372 li.yiv6395798372msochpdefault1, #yiv6395798372 div.yiv6395798372msochpdefault1 {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv6395798372 span.yiv6395798372link-enhancr-element {}#yiv6395798372 span.yiv6395798372link-enhancr-view-on-domain {}#yiv6395798372 span.yiv6395798372EmailStyle31 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv6395798372 .yiv6395798372MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv6395798372 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv6395798372 div.yiv6395798372WordSection1 {}#yiv6395798372 You are right, there wasn?t much information and I found it confusing. ?Hope your 60 watt works OK. If their statement about step down is correct then your LED run voltage has to be less than your input voltage. ?The circuit contains an aluminum electrolytic capacitor which makes me question the reliability. But sometimes it still works. ?Have fun, ?Ken ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 5:36 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Driver ?Ken,that site didn't have a lot of information.This documentation on Ebay desribes them as constant voltage, constant current driverssuitable for high power LEDs.?LED Power Driver Constant Voltage Current Adjust CC CV ? | ? | | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | LED Power Driver Constant Voltage Current Adjust CC CVUS $11.00 New in Business & Industrial, Electrical & Test Equipment, Test Equipment | | | | View on www.ebay.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | | | | | | | | | | It does say to heat sink it if running more than 25W. Heatsink version available on his site.?When I mentioned the price to my LED friend yesterdayhe was a bit dubious & suggested I might get what I payed for.You have prompted me to do a bit more experimentation; so have it running at the momentdriving a 60W LED & will see how long it runs for.Hope you enjoyed the trip to Ireland.Alan ?From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 8:39 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Driver ?I looked at this chip and it?s primarily a buck voltage regulator not intended for use as a constant current LED driver.?You can try using it but I?m not optimistic about them.?Let me know if it works.?Ken Martindale? ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 8:02 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Driver?Bought this LED driver & a 4000 & 6000 lumen emitter.It may be helpful with regard to our open source light.This one describes itself as having a wattage output limitation,?beyond which cooling is required. This may be just a heat sink butI'm not sure.?There are other higher powered constant voltage, constantcurrent drivers on site.?There was no description of how it worked with the product, but managed tofind one on the site posted at the bottom. The blue trim-pot on the leftincreases voltage by a clockwise turning & the right trim-pot increases current.AlanLED Power Driver Constant Voltage / Current Adjustable Module - Blue + Black | ? | | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | LED Power Driver Constant Voltage / Current Adjustable...I like this from DX. Find the cool gadgets at a incredibly low price with worldwide free shipping here. | | | | View on www.dx.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | | | | | | | | | | ??1~35V DC 25W Power LED Driver Supply LM2596 CC CV Light [Constant Voltage Current_A] - $15.00 : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce | ? | | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | 1~35V DC 25W Power LED Driver Supply LM2596 CC CV...Zen Cart! 1~35V DC 25W Power LED Driver Supply LM2596 CC CV Light [Constant Voltage Current_A] - LED Power Driver Constant Voltage / Current Adjustable C... | | | | View on www.xscyz.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | | | | | | | | | | ? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 5 10:23:15 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 10:23:15 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Driver In-Reply-To: <895194104.1898649.1441450948447.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <994134746.6326020.1439899330736.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <00e201d0e5bf$69fda850$3df8f8f0$@cfl.rr.com> <1951635587.617913.1441229783356.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <013601d0e5cd$393c8bb0$abb5a310$@cfl.rr.com> <895194104.1898649.1441450948447.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001a01d0e7e6$677639c0$3662ad40$@cfl.rr.com> It?s easier just to change a resistor value to get any current between about 0.5 amps to almost 3 amperes. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2015 7:02 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Driver Update on my LED driver. Had my 60W LED running for 20 hours & upon rechecking the amps I found I was only drawing .28 amps not 2.8 amps as I had first thought so no wonder it was running cool. The output of the light seemed quite high so it had me fooled. I was only running it at 7.28W. I wound it up to 1 amp (27W) & it got really hot quite quickly. The driver seemed to revert to .5 of an amp when I tested it again & I couldn't get any more than that on that driver or the spare one I had. I have a beefyer driver that I'll try in the near future. A thought that came to mind was that it may be an advantage using Ken's 100W emitter and operating it at something like 50W so it's running a lot cooler. Another thought is that if there is a potentiometer in Ken's design for adjusting the amps, then for those that want to put the driver in the hull, this could be used as a dimming control. Cheers Alan _____ From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Driver You are right, there wasn?t much information and I found it confusing. Hope your 60 watt works OK. If their statement about step down is correct then your LED run voltage has to be less than your input voltage. The circuit contains an aluminum electrolytic capacitor which makes me question the reliability. But sometimes it still works. Have fun, Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 5:36 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Driver Ken, that site didn't have a lot of information. This documentation on Ebay desribes them as constant voltage, constant current drivers suitable for high power LEDs. LED Power Driver Constant Voltage Current Adjust CC CV LED Power Driver Constant Voltage Current Adjust CC CV US $11.00 New in Business & Industrial, Electrical & Test Equipment, Test Equipment View on www.ebay.com Preview by Yahoo It does say to heat sink it if running more than 25W. Heatsink version available on his site. When I mentioned the price to my LED friend yesterday he was a bit dubious & suggested I might get what I payed for. You have prompted me to do a bit more experimentation; so have it running at the moment driving a 60W LED & will see how long it runs for. Hope you enjoyed the trip to Ireland. Alan _____ From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 8:39 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Driver I looked at this chip and it?s primarily a buck voltage regulator not intended for use as a constant current LED driver. You can try using it but I?m not optimistic about them. Let me know if it works. Ken Martindale From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 8:02 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Driver Bought this LED driver & a 4000 & 6000 lumen emitter. It may be helpful with regard to our open source light. This one describes itself as having a wattage output limitation, beyond which cooling is required. This may be just a heat sink but I'm not sure. There are other higher powered constant voltage, constant current drivers on site. There was no description of how it worked with the product, but managed to find one on the site posted at the bottom. The blue trim-pot on the left increases voltage by a clockwise turning & the right trim-pot increases current. Alan LED Power Driver Constant Voltage / Current Adjustable Module - Blue + Black LED Power Driver Constant Voltage / Current Adjustable... I like this from DX. Find the cool gadgets at a incredibly low price with worldwide free shipping here. View on www.dx.com Preview by Yahoo 1~35V DC 25W Power LED Driver Supply LM2596 CC CV Light [Constant Voltage Current_A] - $15.00 : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce 1~35V DC 25W Power LED Driver Supply LM2596 CC CV... Zen Cart! 1~35V DC 25W Power LED Driver Supply LM2596 CC CV Light [Constant Voltage Current_A] - LED Power Driver Constant Voltage / Current Adjustable C... View on www.xscyz.com Preview by Yahoo _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 5 10:25:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 09:25:54 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx In-Reply-To: <94103.6f584dfc.431bb4bf@aol.com> References: <94103.6f584dfc.431bb4bf@aol.com> Message-ID: *Why did you decide to remove the VBT? Was it problems with the VBT system, need for the space, or...?* *To use a VBT or not, that is question. In my case, I had a hard VBT, with a volume of approximately 1.1 cu ft. Because of the size it could only generate about 70 lbs of differential displacement. As such I still had to add and subtract ballast to accommodate a difference in pilot weights. I found that that my VBT had a hysteresis while operating and it was sluggish in establishing neutral buoyancy. If I got the boat neutral near the surface, then if I used the VBT at depth, there was a sudden inrush of water that would have to be blown out to get back to neutral buoyancy at depth. Adding air at depth uses a lot air and my air capacity is limited. I used electrically activated ball valves on the vent and flood ports of the VBT. It would take about two seconds for these valves to fully open or close. While the VBT system worked, all of these factors caused the VBT to be less responsive than I would have liked. Last weekend was the first time to dive my boat without the VBT and just relying on adjusting ballast prior to diving to get neutral and then using the vertical thrusters for descending, ascending and depth control. I found with two MK 101s, I had much better depth control and the system was more responsive (until the last dive in which they failed). Two other reasons I switched are that I used much less air and it gives much needed storage room behind the pilot. It also simplified diving in that to ascend all I do now is flood the MBT, trim the boat longitudinally with a trim system that moves a 100 lb weight forward or aft hydraulically and then use the vertical thrusters. To ascend, it is even easier, as now, all I have to do is use the vertical thrusters. VBTs need to be located at the CG/CB of the boat. For a small boat like mine, this is an awkward location blocking access aft of the VBT. Yes you can split the VBT in two but this doubles the values, tanks and plumbing. * * Having said all that, fish have swim bladders so we know nature likes the VBT concept. Maybe I just need a better design for the VBT system.* *I have always looked at my boat as a test bed. I change things all the time. I have never taken the boat out configured the same way. I will run this way for a while and see if I continue to like it as much as I do now. If not, I will try something different.* *Long answer to a short question.* *Cliff* On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 10:00 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > Why did you decide to remove the VBT? Was it problems with the VBT > system, need for the space, or...? > Thanks, > Jim > > In a message dated 9/2/2015 7:22:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > > Alec, > Agreed, I carry a bypass cable to power up my motor in case the controller > quits. Bypass switch is a must! > Hank > > > > On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 6:04 AM, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Yes, same battery. > > On Tuesday, September 1, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > That's real weird Cliff, especially the fact that 2 separate units > are playing up. The only common denominator is the batteries I suppose. > Are they both drawing from the same batteries? > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 2, 2015 2:21 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx > > They shut down at about 3 PM on Sunday. I disassembled them today > expecting them to be filled with water but they were dry. I reassembled > today. I charged the batteries up last night so they were full charged this > morning. When I powered the thrusters up today, the were at ambient > temperature and the controllers had been sitting all night so they were > cool. The thrusters started up misbehaving like they did when they shut > down, i.e., would not spin up. After playing with them for about 10 > minutes they both came back to life a few minutes apart. They have been > running fine ever since. > > Cliff > > > > On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 9:00 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Cliff, How much time lapsed before they fixed themselves? maybe they > needed encouragement to restart because they were just on cusp of being > cooled enough. > Hank > > > > On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 7:39 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Wonderful detailed report Cliff! My theory is a thermal shutdown of the > controllers as Hank suggested. Although I have no documentation on their > speed controllers, the fact it fixed itself suggests that. But then on the > other hand why did it take all that switching on and off to reset? > > This reinforces my intention to put a speed controller override into the > new boat. > > Best, > > Alec > > > > On Sep 1, 2015, at 5:40 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I took the R300 out this weekend. This was the first time to have it > back in water since the 2013 Psub convention in Islamorada. The > objective of the dive was to evaluate some fairly significant modifications. > > To improve low speed maneuverability and reduce noise, I junked the jet > pump and ailerons and went to four fixed MK 101 thrusters. I also junked > the VBT and just add ballast to get neutral. Also I added a Garmin AIRMAR > DST800 Smart Sensor to measure altitude, speed and water temperature. It > worked great. Installed a new LED 5k light, upgraded to a new HMI, and > changed the foot and joystick controls. I also rewired the main battery > bank for 36VDC rather than 120VDC and installed four MK 101 motor > controllers. I modified the aft horizontal MK-101s by adding Kort > nozzles and used air to pressure compensate. I used the same pressure > reducing regulator Hugh Fulton posted about awhile back that he is using on > the QSub. The changes decreased the weight of boat by 200 lbs while > the displacement remained the same. > > My son, wife, a diving friend and I took the boat to Canyon Lake in Texas > this Sunday. Visibility was less than 5 ft so could not see much. My > main interest at this point was just to get into water. After launching > the boat, I did some testing to get the base line ballast both mid-ship and > in the stern correct so that I could get neutral and trim after flooding > the MBT. After establishing the fixed ballast, I took the boat out to > test how the horizontal thrusters work for surface maneuvering. I was > very happy with way the horizontal thrusters performed. Surface > maneuverability was excellent and these motors are supper quite. I did > find that you could cavitate the props on the surface if you hit it with > too much power. As before the changes, when you get up to about 4 knots, > the bow wave obscures the pilots vision. Breaking is much improved and > it is now possible to rotate on the surface or in the water column. > > I then took the boat out for the first submerged maneuvering. The > vertical thrusters were very effective for depth control, pitch and roll > control. I found that it was much easier to get to specific depth and > hold this depth using the vertical thrusters than the old way I did it with > the VBT. They worked great. While removing the VBT simplified dive > operations, it did result in loss of freeboard of about 1 inch. This is > a downside of removing the VBT as the freeboard was already quite low. I > just have to be careful when opening the hatch. I opened and closed that > hatch throughout the day and only took splash one time when a boat came by > I did not see. > > The new Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor worked great. With visibility > less than 5 ft, being able to know the altitude was very helpful on dives. > As usual, it got darker as you descend but knowing when the bottom was > coming up was nice. > > On the negative side, during the last dive of the day, the vertical > thrusters failed while my son was on bottom in about 27 ft of water. He > had to surface using the MBT. Why these thrusters failed is a mystery. It > was at the end of the day and I had pushed the batteries pretty hard all > day along but we still had plenty of battery voltage. My sons second > attempt to surface was to put some air in the forward MBT to lift the nose > and then use the aft horizontal thrusters to power to the surface. This > failed as aft horizontal thrusters were not responsive. After surfacing > with the MBT, we discovered that tree limb about 1.5? diameter had lodged > in the starboard horizontal thruster between the prop and the Kort nozzle. > This explains why we lost horizontal thrust but not vertical. After > getting the boat back on the trailer, I tested the vertical thrusters. They > would barely turn even when giving them full power. My first guess was > that the air pressure compensation system failed and the thrusters were > full of water. When I got the boat back to my workshop, I disassembled > both vertical thrusters and discovered they were dry. After recharging the > boat, I tried the vertical thrusters again and got the same slow speed > operation. After turning them off and on for about five minutes, the > starboard vertical thruster stared working correctly. I kept switching > the port vertical thruster off and on and all of a sudden, it began working > correctly. When I had the motors apart, I put a multimeter on the wires > going to the brushes and found it showing 35VDC. At this point the > control signal to these motors was 2.5V so voltage to the motors should > have been zero. My guess is that the MK motor controller is acting up. But > it is strange that both the vertical controllers would fail. Also, if it > were bad motor controllers, then why did they both start working again. This > is still a head stumper for me. > > Also towards the end of the day, the OTS underwater communication stared > acting up. Base and standby diver using an OTS Guardian full face mask > could hear underwater transmissions from me but I could not receive either > from the diver or from the base. The underwater commns had been working > great for the previous 7 hours. I was also having trouble about this > time with the VHF radio that Alec gave me. Again I could not receive. When > I get a chance I am going to see if the connection to the antenna got > disconnected. > > One of the nice new features of the new HMI besides being larger and > having a higher resolution, was it has built in data logging. So after > the dive it was very nice to be able to download into Excel about 50 > variables logged at a one minute interval. I was able to plot these and get > a detailed picture of how all the ship systems were working during the day. > > If anyone has any thoughts on why the vertical MK 101 thruster motors > failed, or have had any negative experience with the MK101 motor > controllers, I would love to hear them. When they are working, they are > great. > > All in all, I was very happy with the changes but have a few kinks to work > out before I take her out again. Now if I could just find some clear > water to dive in, I would be a happy camper! > > Cliff > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 5 13:21:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 13:21:54 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx Message-ID: Thanks, Cliff, I like long answers to short questions... give me more than I bargained for. We've all learned a lot from the R-300 test bed. I had originally planned to have VBTs fore and aft, but decided to only provide for future installation if I later feel it would be worth it. Jim In a message dated 9/5/2015 9:26:29 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Why did you decide to remove the VBT? Was it problems with the VBT system, need for the space, or...? To use a VBT or not, that is question. In my case, I had a hard VBT, with a volume of approximately 1.1 cu ft. Because of the size it could only generate about 70 lbs of differential displacement. As such I still had to add and subtract ballast to accommodate a difference in pilot weights. I found that that my VBT had a hysteresis while operating and it was sluggish in establishing neutral buoyancy. If I got the boat neutral near the surface, then if I used the VBT at depth, there was a sudden inrush of water that would have to be blown out to get back to neutral buoyancy at depth. Adding air at depth uses a lot air and my air capacity is limited. I used electrically activated ball valves on the vent and flood ports of the VBT. It would take about two seconds for these valves to fully open or close. While the VBT system worked, all of these factors caused the VBT to be less responsive than I would have liked. Last weekend was the first time to dive my boat without the VBT and just relying on adjusting ballast prior to diving to get neutral and then using the vertical thrusters for descending, ascending and depth control. I found with two MK 101s, I had much better depth control and the system was more responsive (until the last dive in which they failed). Two other reasons I switched are that I used much less air and it gives much needed storage room behind the pilot. It also simplified diving in that to ascend all I do now is flood the MBT, trim the boat longitudinally with a trim system that moves a 100 lb weight forward or aft hydraulically and then use the vertical thrusters. To ascend, it is even easier, as now, all I have to do is use the vertical thrusters. VBTs need to be located at the CG/CB of the boat. For a small boat like mine, this is an awkward location blocking access aft of the VBT. Yes you can split the VBT in two but this doubles the values, tanks and plumbing. Having said all that, fish have swim bladders so we know nature likes the VBT concept. Maybe I just need a better design for the VBT system. I have always looked at my boat as a test bed. I change things all the time. I have never taken the boat out configured the same way. I will run this way for a while and see if I continue to like it as much as I do now. If not, I will try something different. Long answer to a short question. Cliff On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 10:00 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Cliff, Why did you decide to remove the VBT? Was it problems with the VBT system, need for the space, or...? Thanks, Jim In a message dated 9/2/2015 7:22:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time, _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) writes: Alec, Agreed, I carry a bypass cable to power up my motor in case the controller quits. Bypass switch is a must! Hank On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 6:04 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Yes, same battery. On Tuesday, September 1, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: That's real weird Cliff, especially the fact that 2 separate units are playing up. The only common denominator is the batteries I suppose. Are they both drawing from the same batteries? Alan ____________________________________ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2015 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx They shut down at about 3 PM on Sunday. I disassembled them today expecting them to be filled with water but they were dry. I reassembled today. I charged the batteries up last night so they were full charged this morning. When I powered the thrusters up today, the were at ambient temperature and the controllers had been sitting all night so they were cool. The thrusters started up misbehaving like they did when they shut down, i.e., would not spin up. After playing with them for about 10 minutes they both came back to life a few minutes apart. They have been running fine ever since. Cliff On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 9:00 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, How much time lapsed before they fixed themselves? maybe they needed encouragement to restart because they were just on cusp of being cooled enough. Hank On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 7:39 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Wonderful detailed report Cliff! My theory is a thermal shutdown of the controllers as Hank suggested. Although I have no documentation on their speed controllers, the fact it fixed itself suggests that. But then on the other hand why did it take all that switching on and off to reset? This reinforces my intention to put a speed controller override into the new boat. Best, Alec On Sep 1, 2015, at 5:40 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I took the R300 out this weekend. This was the first time to have it back in water since the 2013 Psub convention in Islamorada. The objective of the dive was to evaluate some fairly significant modifications. To improve low speed maneuverability and reduce noise, I junked the jet pump and ailerons and went to four fixed MK 101 thrusters. I also junked the VBT and just add ballast to get neutral. Also I added a Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor to measure altitude, speed and water temperature. It worked great. Installed a new LED 5k light, upgraded to a new HMI, and changed the foot and joystick controls. I also rewired the main battery bank for 36VDC rather than 120VDC and installed four MK 101 motor controllers. I modified the aft horizontal MK-101s by adding Kort nozzles and used air to pressure compensate. I used the same pressure reducing regulator Hugh Fulton posted about awhile back that he is using on the QSub. The changes decreased the weight of boat by 200 lbs while the displacement remained the same. My son, wife, a diving friend and I took the boat to Canyon Lake in Texas this Sunday. Visibility was less than 5 ft so could not see much. My main interest at this point was just to get into water. After launching the boat, I did some testing to get the base line ballast both mid-ship and in the stern correct so that I could get neutral and trim after flooding the MBT. After establishing the fixed ballast, I took the boat out to test how the horizontal thrusters work for surface maneuvering. I was very happy with way the horizontal thrusters performed. Surface maneuverability was excellent and these motors are supper quite. I did find that you could cavitate the props on the surface if you hit it with too much power. As before the changes, when you get up to about 4 knots, the bow wave obscures the pilots vision. Breaking is much improved and it is now possible to rotate on the surface or in the water column. I then took the boat out for the first submerged maneuvering. The vertical thrusters were very effective for depth control, pitch and roll control. I found that it was much easier to get to specific depth and hold this depth using the vertical thrusters than the old way I did it with the VBT. They worked great. While removing the VBT simplified dive operations, it did result in loss of freeboard of about 1 inch. This is a downside of removing the VBT as the freeboard was already quite low. I just have to be careful when opening the hatch. I opened and closed that hatch throughout the day and only took splash one time when a boat came by I did not see. The new Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor worked great. With visibility less than 5 ft, being able to know the altitude was very helpful on dives. As usual, it got darker as you descend but knowing when the bottom was coming up was nice. On the negative side, during the last dive of the day, the vertical thrusters failed while my son was on bottom in about 27 ft of water. He had to surface using the MBT. Why these thrusters failed is a mystery. It was at the end of the day and I had pushed the batteries pretty hard all day along but we still had plenty of battery voltage. My sons second attempt to surface was to put some air in the forward MBT to lift the nose and then use the aft horizontal thrusters to power to the surface. This failed as aft horizontal thrusters were not responsive. After surfacing with the MBT, we discovered that tree limb about 1.5? diameter had lodged in the starboard horizontal thruster between the prop and the Kort nozzle. This explains why we lost horizontal thrust but not vertical. After getting the boat back on the trailer, I tested the vertical thrusters. They would barely turn even when giving them full power. My first guess was that the air pressure compensation system failed and the thrusters were full of water. When I got the boat back to my workshop, I disassembled both vertical thrusters and discovered they were dry. After recharging the boat, I tried the vertical thrusters again and got the same slow speed operation. After turning them off and on for about five minutes, the starboard vertical thruster stared working correctly. I kept switching the port vertical thruster off and on and all of a sudden, it began working correctly. When I had the motors apart, I put a multimeter on the wires going to the brushes and found it showing 35VDC. At this point the control signal to these motors was 2.5V so voltage to the motors should have been zero. My guess is that the MK motor controller is acting up. But it is strange that both the vertical controllers would fail. Also, if it were bad motor controllers, then why did they both start working again. This is still a head stumper for me. Also towards the end of the day, the OTS underwater communication stared acting up. Base and standby diver using an OTS Guardian full face mask could hear underwater transmissions from me but I could not receive either from the diver or from the base. The underwater commns had been working great for the previous 7 hours. I was also having trouble about this time with the VHF radio that Alec gave me. Again I could not receive. When I get a chance I am going to see if the connection to the antenna got disconnected. One of the nice new features of the new HMI besides being larger and having a higher resolution, was it has built in data logging. So after the dive it was very nice to be able to download into Excel about 50 variables logged at a one minute interval. I was able to plot these and get a detailed picture of how all the ship systems were working during the day. If anyone has any thoughts on why the vertical MK 101 thruster motors failed, or have had any negative experience with the MK101 motor controllers, I would love to hear them. When they are working, they are great. All in all, I was very happy with the changes but have a few kinks to work out before I take her out again. Now if I could just find some clear water to dive in, I would be a happy camper! Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 5 20:44:58 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 12:44:58 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx In-Reply-To: References: <94103.6f584dfc.431bb4bf@aol.com> Message-ID: <55eb8c4e.040d460a.c36a1.372a@mx.google.com> Cliff, Forever the Engineer. Why can?t you be satisfied with just accepting it the way it is and go and explore! Ok, I understand midlife crisis and all the rest. Yes, we are all the same. Pot calling the Kettle black. Thanks for the update. Some interesting points with the VBT. First I was horrified that I have fallen into all the same problems. I was quite happy on having large VBT?s and now you have spoiled my day. Then I thought the use of the VBT is in question. ( I know Vance is going to pounce on me and correct it all ) Should the boat not be weighted so the VBT is an extension of the MBT . In other words the VBT should be flooded to capacity to achieve neutral buoyancy just under the surface and then minimum air can be added at depth to compensate for crush/buoyancy-change. Then at surface that air in the VBT can be used to expel the water. As you have so timely pointed out that if there is any air volume in the VBT there is going to be a lot of air used just to neutralize the air space at depth. It is a pain that what I had allowed for in VBT capacity was to prevent the pre-dive weigh-in and adjustable ballasts. The other bone I have to pick with you is that I always read your blogs with great interest and then go out and buy bits as close to the same, only to find by your latest admission that you are just experimenting. It is like trying to herd cats. Regards, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 6 September 2015 2:26 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx Why did you decide to remove the VBT? Was it problems with the VBT system, need for the space, or...? To use a VBT or not, that is question. In my case, I had a hard VBT, with a volume of approximately 1.1 cu ft. Because of the size it could only generate about 70 lbs of differential displacement. As such I still had to add and subtract ballast to accommodate a difference in pilot weights. I found that that my VBT had a hysteresis while operating and it was sluggish in establishing neutral buoyancy. If I got the boat neutral near the surface, then if I used the VBT at depth, there was a sudden inrush of water that would have to be blown out to get back to neutral buoyancy at depth. Adding air at depth uses a lot air and my air capacity is limited. I used electrically activated ball valves on the vent and flood ports of the VBT. It would take about two seconds for these valves to fully open or close. While the VBT system worked, all of these factors caused the VBT to be less responsive than I would have liked. Last weekend was the first time to dive my boat without the VBT and just relying on adjusting ballast prior to diving to get neutral and then using the vertical thrusters for descending, ascending and depth control. I found with two MK 101s, I had much better depth control and the system was more responsive (until the last dive in which they failed). Two other reasons I switched are that I used much less air and it gives much needed storage room behind the pilot. It also simplified diving in that to ascend all I do now is flood the MBT, trim the boat longitudinally with a trim system that moves a 100 lb weight forward or aft hydraulically and then use the vertical thrusters. To ascend, it is even easier, as now, all I have to do is use the vertical thrusters. VBTs need to be located at the CG/CB of the boat. For a small boat like mine, this is an awkward location blocking access aft of the VBT. Yes you can split the VBT in two but this doubles the values, tanks and plumbing. Having said all that, fish have swim bladders so we know nature likes the VBT concept. Maybe I just need a better design for the VBT system. I have always looked at my boat as a test bed. I change things all the time. I have never taken the boat out configured the same way. I will run this way for a while and see if I continue to like it as much as I do now. If not, I will try something different. Long answer to a short question. Cliff On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 10:00 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, Why did you decide to remove the VBT? Was it problems with the VBT system, need for the space, or...? Thanks, Jim In a message dated 9/2/2015 7:22:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Alec, Agreed, I carry a bypass cable to power up my motor in case the controller quits. Bypass switch is a must! Hank On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 6:04 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, same battery. On Tuesday, September 1, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That's real weird Cliff, especially the fact that 2 separate units are playing up. The only common denominator is the batteries I suppose. Are they both drawing from the same batteries? Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2015 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx They shut down at about 3 PM on Sunday. I disassembled them today expecting them to be filled with water but they were dry. I reassembled today. I charged the batteries up last night so they were full charged this morning. When I powered the thrusters up today, the were at ambient temperature and the controllers had been sitting all night so they were cool. The thrusters started up misbehaving like they did when they shut down, i.e., would not spin up. After playing with them for about 10 minutes they both came back to life a few minutes apart. They have been running fine ever since. Cliff On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 9:00 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, How much time lapsed before they fixed themselves? maybe they needed encouragement to restart because they were just on cusp of being cooled enough. Hank On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 7:39 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Wonderful detailed report Cliff! My theory is a thermal shutdown of the controllers as Hank suggested. Although I have no documentation on their speed controllers, the fact it fixed itself suggests that. But then on the other hand why did it take all that switching on and off to reset? This reinforces my intention to put a speed controller override into the new boat. Best, Alec On Sep 1, 2015, at 5:40 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I took the R300 out this weekend. This was the first time to have it back in water since the 2013 Psub convention in Islamorada. The objective of the dive was to evaluate some fairly significant modifications. To improve low speed maneuverability and reduce noise, I junked the jet pump and ailerons and went to four fixed MK 101 thrusters. I also junked the VBT and just add ballast to get neutral. Also I added a Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor to measure altitude, speed and water temperature. It worked great. Installed a new LED 5k light, upgraded to a new HMI, and changed the foot and joystick controls. I also rewired the main battery bank for 36VDC rather than 120VDC and installed four MK 101 motor controllers. I modified the aft horizontal MK-101s by adding Kort nozzles and used air to pressure compensate. I used the same pressure reducing regulator Hugh Fulton posted about awhile back that he is using on the QSub. The changes decreased the weight of boat by 200 lbs while the displacement remained the same. My son, wife, a diving friend and I took the boat to Canyon Lake in Texas this Sunday. Visibility was less than 5 ft so could not see much. My main interest at this point was just to get into water. After launching the boat, I did some testing to get the base line ballast both mid-ship and in the stern correct so that I could get neutral and trim after flooding the MBT. After establishing the fixed ballast, I took the boat out to test how the horizontal thrusters work for surface maneuvering. I was very happy with way the horizontal thrusters performed. Surface maneuverability was excellent and these motors are supper quite. I did find that you could cavitate the props on the surface if you hit it with too much power. As before the changes, when you get up to about 4 knots, the bow wave obscures the pilots vision. Breaking is much improved and it is now possible to rotate on the surface or in the water column. I then took the boat out for the first submerged maneuvering. The vertical thrusters were very effective for depth control, pitch and roll control. I found that it was much easier to get to specific depth and hold this depth using the vertical thrusters than the old way I did it with the VBT. They worked great. While removing the VBT simplified dive operations, it did result in loss of freeboard of about 1 inch. This is a downside of removing the VBT as the freeboard was already quite low. I just have to be careful when opening the hatch. I opened and closed that hatch throughout the day and only took splash one time when a boat came by I did not see. The new Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor worked great. With visibility less than 5 ft, being able to know the altitude was very helpful on dives. As usual, it got darker as you descend but knowing when the bottom was coming up was nice. On the negative side, during the last dive of the day, the vertical thrusters failed while my son was on bottom in about 27 ft of water. He had to surface using the MBT. Why these thrusters failed is a mystery. It was at the end of the day and I had pushed the batteries pretty hard all day along but we still had plenty of battery voltage. My sons second attempt to surface was to put some air in the forward MBT to lift the nose and then use the aft horizontal thrusters to power to the surface. This failed as aft horizontal thrusters were not responsive. After surfacing with the MBT, we discovered that tree limb about 1.5? diameter had lodged in the starboard horizontal thruster between the prop and the Kort nozzle. This explains why we lost horizontal thrust but not vertical. After getting the boat back on the trailer, I tested the vertical thrusters. They would barely turn even when giving them full power. My first guess was that the air pressure compensation system failed and the thrusters were full of water. When I got the boat back to my workshop, I disassembled both vertical thrusters and discovered they were dry. After recharging the boat, I tried the vertical thrusters again and got the same slow speed operation. After turning them off and on for about five minutes, the starboard vertical thruster stared working correctly. I kept switching the port vertical thruster off and on and all of a sudden, it began working correctly. When I had the motors apart, I put a multimeter on the wires going to the brushes and found it showing 35VDC. At this point the control signal to these motors was 2.5V so voltage to the motors should have been zero. My guess is that the MK motor controller is acting up. But it is strange that both the vertical controllers would fail. Also, if it were bad motor controllers, then why did they both start working again. This is still a head stumper for me. Also towards the end of the day, the OTS underwater communication stared acting up. Base and standby diver using an OTS Guardian full face mask could hear underwater transmissions from me but I could not receive either from the diver or from the base. The underwater commns had been working great for the previous 7 hours. I was also having trouble about this time with the VHF radio that Alec gave me. Again I could not receive. When I get a chance I am going to see if the connection to the antenna got disconnected. One of the nice new features of the new HMI besides being larger and having a higher resolution, was it has built in data logging. So after the dive it was very nice to be able to download into Excel about 50 variables logged at a one minute interval. I was able to plot these and get a detailed picture of how all the ship systems were working during the day. If anyone has any thoughts on why the vertical MK 101 thruster motors failed, or have had any negative experience with the MK101 motor controllers, I would love to hear them. When they are working, they are great. All in all, I was very happy with the changes but have a few kinks to work out before I take her out again. Now if I could just find some clear water to dive in, I would be a happy camper! Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 5 23:24:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 20:24:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] altimeter ? Message-ID: <20150905202442.954E494B@m0005296.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 6 04:00:57 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?UTF-8?Q?Lasse_Schmidt_Westr=C3=A9n?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 10:00:57 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] altimeter ? In-Reply-To: <20150905202442.954E494B@m0005296.ppops.net> References: <20150905202442.954E494B@m0005296.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, They usually show reference pressure in Inches Mercury or Millibars. The one I have goes from 1040 to 930 Mbar, calibrated to 20.000 feet. I can recommend this MGL instrument, it also shows if you are descending or rising. The price is good for such an instrument. It is digital, background lighted and light. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/11-05684.php Other altimeters are found here: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/in/altimeters.html Lasse 2015-09-06 5:24 GMT+02:00 Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > Hi All, > I was thinking about getting an altimeter, The question I > have is: What is the top end range of pressure those things will read? > I assume that they start at 14.7 psi. But I guess they are calibrated in > feet of air. So If you had an over pressure situation what is the highest > reading you would see? > > thanks, > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -- Lasse Schmidt Westr?n Upplevelsepresent.se 070-28 32 660 Upplevelser, events och kryssningar. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 6 10:16:06 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 10:16:06 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] altimeter ? Message-ID: Brian, Assuming your starting point is sea level pressure or 0 feet of altitude, if the altimeter reading moves to -1000 feet you would have an over-pressure of a half pound (scroll down to the chart below). Since altimeters are designed primarily to register pressures less than 14.7 psi, I'm not sure what effective range most of them have at pressures greater than that. As referenced in Lasse's first link, the ANSI standard for accuracy goes down to -700 feet. The higher the pressure, the lower the altitude (cabin pressure altitude, not depth in the water). In a sub I would generally prefer an analog altimeter. Set the pointer straight up at 0 to start, and any decrease or increase in cabin pressure quickly registers by the pointer moving left or right. Jim T. . The table below indicates air pressure at elevations below and above sea level. Altitude Above Sea Level Absolute Barometer Absolute Atmospheric Pressure feet meters inches Hg mm Hg psia kg/cm2 kPa -5000 -1524 35.7 914 17.5 1.23 121 -4500 -1372 35.1 898 17.2 1.21 119 -4000 -1219 34.5 882 16.9 1.19 117 -3500 -1067 33.9 867 16.6 1.17 115 -3000 -914 33.3 852 16.4 1.15 113 -2500 -762 32.7 837 16.1 1.13 111 -2000 -610 32.1 822 15.8 1.11 109 -1500 -457 31.6 807 15.5 1.09 107 -1000 -305 31.0 793 15.2 1.07 105 -500 -152 30.5 779 15.0 1.05 103 01) 0 29.9 765 14.7 1.03 101 500 152 29.4 751 14.4 1.01 99.5 1000 305 28.9 738 14.2 0.997 97.7 1500 457 28.3 724 13.9 0.979 96.0 2000 610 27.8 711 13.7 0.961 94.2 2500 762 27.3 698 13.4 0.943 92.5 3000 914 26.8 686 13.2 0.926 90.8 3500 1067 26.3 673 12.9 0.909 89.1 4000 1219 25.8 661 12.7 0.893 87.5 4500 1372 25.4 649 12.5 0.876 85.9 5000 1524 24.9 637 12.2 0.860 84.3 6000 1829 24.0 613 11.8 0.828 81.2 7000 2134 23.1 590 11.3 0.797 78.2 8000 2438 22.2 568 10.9 0.768 75.3 9000 2743 21.4 547 10.5 0.739 72.4 10000 3048 20.6 526 10.1 0.711 69.7 15000 4572 16.9 432 8.29 0.583 57.2 20000 6096 13.8 352 6.75 0.475 46.6 25000 7620 11.1 284 5.45 0.384 37.6 30000 9144 8.89 227 4.36 0.307 30.1 35000 10668 7.04 180 3.46 0.243 23.8 40000 12192 5.52 141 2.71 0.191 18.7 45000 13716 4.28 109 2.10 0.148 14.5 50000 15240 3.27 83.6 1.61 0.113 11.1 In a message dated 9/6/2015 3:02:15 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Brian, They usually show reference pressure in Inches Mercury or Millibars. The one I have goes from 1040 to 930 Mbar, calibrated to 20.000 feet. I can recommend this MGL instrument, it also shows if you are descending or rising. The price is good for such an instrument. It is digital, background lighted and light. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/11-05684.php Other altimeters are found here: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/in/altimeters.html Lasse 2015-09-06 5:24 GMT+02:00 Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >: Hi All, I was thinking about getting an altimeter, The question I have is: What is the top end range of pressure those things will read? I assume that they start at 14.7 psi. But I guess they are calibrated in feet of air. So If you had an over pressure situation what is the highest reading you would see? thanks, Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Lasse Schmidt Westr?n Upplevelsepresent.se 070-28 32 660 Upplevelser, events och kryssningar. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 6 13:03:46 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 10:03:46 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] altimeter ? Message-ID: <20150906100346.954F39ED@m0005297.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 6 13:28:57 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 12:28:57 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx In-Reply-To: <55eb8c4e.040d460a.c36a1.372a@mx.google.com> References: <94103.6f584dfc.431bb4bf@aol.com> <55eb8c4e.040d460a.c36a1.372a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hugh, if I lived in New Zealand, I would accept my boat as is and go exploring. With the lake visibility so pour in Texas, it is kind of hard to see anything. In other words the VBT should be flooded to capacity to achieve neutral buoyancy just under the surface and then minimum air can be added at depth to compensate for crush/buoyancy-change. I see the logic in this from an air consumption perspective but this would prevent you from going from a pilot and one passenger to pilot only without adding fixed ballast. In this case, lets say that your VBT are at say 90% filled with water and boat is neutral and now you surface, blow MBT and 200 lb passenger exits the boat. You could not take on enough water in VBT to compensate for the lost 200 lbs so you be forced to take on fixed ballast even with this big VBT system. So let say instead you design fixed ballast to get you neutral with say 50% water in VBT. With a big VBT, if you dive the boat, and have to open VBT at depth, you have to add a whole lot of fairly high pressure air to use the tank as the low pressure air in the VBT would collapse. One way to address this would be to have the big VBT and set the neutral point at say 50% then use a PD pump on the vent leg of the VBT to adjust water level. The key would be to find a PD pump that marine grade that does not have a lot of slip. I think designing a new psub is a lot like herding cats. Cliff On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 7:44 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > > Forever the Engineer. Why can?t you be satisfied with just accepting it > the way it is and go and explore! > > Ok, I understand midlife crisis and all the rest. Yes, we are all the > same. Pot calling the Kettle black. Thanks for the update. Some > interesting points with the VBT. > > First I was horrified that I have fallen into all the same problems. I > was quite happy on having large VBT?s and now you have spoiled my day. > Then I thought the use of the VBT is in question. ( I know Vance is going > to pounce on me and correct it all ) > > Should the boat not be weighted so the VBT is an extension of the MBT . In > other words the VBT should be flooded to capacity to achieve neutral > buoyancy just under the surface and then minimum air can be added at depth > to compensate for crush/buoyancy-change. Then at surface that air in the > VBT can be used to expel the water. As you have so timely pointed out > that if there is any air volume in the VBT there is going to be a lot of > air used just to neutralize the air space at depth. It is a pain that what > I had allowed for in VBT capacity was to prevent the pre-dive weigh-in and > adjustable ballasts. > > The other bone I have to pick with you is that I always read your blogs > with great interest and then go out and buy bits as close to the same, only > to find by your latest admission that you are just experimenting. It is > like trying to herd cats. > > Regards, Hugh > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Sunday, 6 September 2015 2:26 a.m. > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx > > > > *Why did you decide to remove the VBT? Was it problems with the VBT > system, need for the space, or...?* > > *To use a VBT or not, that is question. In my case, I had a hard VBT, > with a volume of approximately 1.1 cu ft. Because of the size it could > only generate about 70 lbs of differential displacement. As such I still > had to add and subtract ballast to accommodate a difference in pilot > weights. I found that that my VBT had a hysteresis while operating and it > was sluggish in establishing neutral buoyancy. If I got the boat neutral > near the surface, then if I used the VBT at depth, there was a sudden > inrush of water that would have to be blown out to get back to neutral > buoyancy at depth. Adding air at depth uses a lot air and my air capacity > is limited. I used electrically activated ball valves on the vent and > flood ports of the VBT. It would take about two seconds for these valves > to fully open or close. While the VBT system worked, all of these factors > caused the VBT to be less responsive than I would have liked. Last weekend > was the first time to dive my boat without the VBT and just relying on > adjusting ballast prior to diving to get neutral and then using the > vertical thrusters for descending, ascending and depth control. I found > with two MK 101s, I had much better depth control and the system was more > responsive (until the last dive in which they failed). Two other reasons I > switched are that I used much less air and it gives much needed storage > room behind the pilot. It also simplified diving in that to ascend all I > do now is flood the MBT, trim the boat longitudinally with a trim system > that moves a 100 lb weight forward or aft hydraulically and then use the > vertical thrusters. To ascend, it is even easier, as now, all I have to do > is use the vertical thrusters. VBTs need to be located at the CG/CB of the > boat. For a small boat like mine, this is an awkward location blocking > access aft of the VBT. Yes you can split the VBT in two but this doubles > the values, tanks and plumbing. * > > *Having said all that, fish have swim bladders so we know nature likes > the VBT concept. Maybe I just need a better design for the VBT system.* > > *I have always looked at my boat as a test bed. I change things all the > time. I have never taken the boat out configured the same way. I will run > this way for a while and see if I continue to like it as much as I do > now. If not, I will try something different.* > > *Long answer to a short question.* > > *Cliff* > > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 10:00 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, > > Why did you decide to remove the VBT? Was it problems with the VBT > system, need for the space, or...? > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > > In a message dated 9/2/2015 7:22:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > > Alec, > > Agreed, I carry a bypass cable to power up my motor in case the controller > quits. Bypass switch is a must! > > Hank > > > > > > On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 6:04 AM, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Yes, same battery. > > On Tuesday, September 1, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > That's real weird Cliff, especially the fact that 2 separate units > > are playing up. The only common denominator is the batteries I suppose. > > Are they both drawing from the same batteries? > > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 2, 2015 2:21 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx > > > > They shut down at about 3 PM on Sunday. I disassembled them today > expecting them to be filled with water but they were dry. I reassembled > today. I charged the batteries up last night so they were full charged this > morning. When I powered the thrusters up today, the were at ambient > temperature and the controllers had been sitting all night so they were > cool. The thrusters started up misbehaving like they did when they shut > down, i.e., would not spin up. After playing with them for about 10 > minutes they both came back to life a few minutes apart. They have been > running fine ever since. > > > > Cliff > > > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 9:00 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Cliff, How much time lapsed before they fixed themselves? maybe they > needed encouragement to restart because they were just on cusp of being > cooled enough. > > Hank > > > > > > On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 7:39 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Wonderful detailed report Cliff! My theory is a thermal shutdown of the > controllers as Hank suggested. Although I have no documentation on their > speed controllers, the fact it fixed itself suggests that. But then on the > other hand why did it take all that switching on and off to reset? > > > > This reinforces my intention to put a speed controller override into the > new boat. > > > > Best, > > > > Alec > > > > > On Sep 1, 2015, at 5:40 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I took the R300 out this weekend. This was the first time to have it back > in water since the 2013 Psub convention in Islamorada. The objective of > the dive was to evaluate some fairly significant modifications. > > > > To improve low speed maneuverability and reduce noise, I junked the jet > pump and ailerons and went to four fixed MK 101 thrusters. I also junked > the VBT and just add ballast to get neutral. Also I added a Garmin AIRMAR > DST800 Smart Sensor to measure altitude, speed and water temperature. It > worked great. Installed a new LED 5k light, upgraded to a new HMI, and > changed the foot and joystick controls. I also rewired the main battery > bank for 36VDC rather than 120VDC and installed four MK 101 motor > controllers. I modified the aft horizontal MK-101s by adding Kort nozzles > and used air to pressure compensate. I used the same pressure reducing > regulator Hugh Fulton posted about awhile back that he is using on the > QSub. The changes decreased the weight of boat by 200 lbs while the > displacement remained the same. > > > > My son, wife, a diving friend and I took the boat to Canyon Lake in Texas > this Sunday. Visibility was less than 5 ft so could not see much. My main > interest at this point was just to get into water. After launching the > boat, I did some testing to get the base line ballast both mid-ship and in > the stern correct so that I could get neutral and trim after flooding the > MBT. After establishing the fixed ballast, I took the boat out to test how > the horizontal thrusters work for surface maneuvering. I was very happy > with way the horizontal thrusters performed. Surface maneuverability was > excellent and these motors are supper quite. I did find that you could > cavitate the props on the surface if you hit it with too much power. As > before the changes, when you get up to about 4 knots, the bow wave obscures > the pilots vision. Breaking is much improved and it is now possible to > rotate on the surface or in the water column. > > > > I then took the boat out for the first submerged maneuvering. The > vertical thrusters were very effective for depth control, pitch and roll > control. I found that it was much easier to get to specific depth and hold > this depth using the vertical thrusters than the old way I did it with the > VBT. They worked great. While removing the VBT simplified dive > operations, it did result in loss of freeboard of about 1 inch. This is a > downside of removing the VBT as the freeboard was already quite low. I > just have to be careful when opening the hatch. I opened and closed that > hatch throughout the day and only took splash one time when a boat came by > I did not see. > > > > The new Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor worked great. With visibility > less than 5 ft, being able to know the altitude was very helpful on dives. > As usual, it got darker as you descend but knowing when the bottom was > coming up was nice. > > > > On the negative side, during the last dive of the day, the vertical > thrusters failed while my son was on bottom in about 27 ft of water. He > had to surface using the MBT. Why these thrusters failed is a mystery. It > was at the end of the day and I had pushed the batteries pretty hard all > day along but we still had plenty of battery voltage. My sons second > attempt to surface was to put some air in the forward MBT to lift the nose > and then use the aft horizontal thrusters to power to the surface. This > failed as aft horizontal thrusters were not responsive. After surfacing > with the MBT, we discovered that tree limb about 1.5? diameter had lodged > in the starboard horizontal thruster between the prop and the Kort nozzle. > This explains why we lost horizontal thrust but not vertical. After > getting the boat back on the trailer, I tested the vertical thrusters. > They would barely turn even when giving them full power. My first guess > was that the air pressure compensation system failed and the thrusters were > full of water. When I got the boat back to my workshop, I disassembled > both vertical thrusters and discovered they were dry. After recharging the > boat, I tried the vertical thrusters again and got the same slow speed > operation. After turning them off and on for about five minutes, the > starboard vertical thruster stared working correctly. I kept switching the > port vertical thruster off and on and all of a sudden, it began working > correctly. When I had the motors apart, I put a multimeter on the wires > going to the brushes and found it showing 35VDC. At this point the control > signal to these motors was 2.5V so voltage to the motors should have been > zero. My guess is that the MK motor controller is acting up. But it is > strange that both the vertical controllers would fail. Also, if it were > bad motor controllers, then why did they both start working again. This is > still a head stumper for me. > > > > Also towards the end of the day, the OTS underwater communication stared > acting up. Base and standby diver using an OTS Guardian full face mask > could hear underwater transmissions from me but I could not receive either > from the diver or from the base. The underwater commns had been working > great for the previous 7 hours. I was also having trouble about this time > with the VHF radio that Alec gave me. Again I could not receive. When I > get a chance I am going to see if the connection to the antenna got > disconnected. > > > > One of the nice new features of the new HMI besides being larger and > having a higher resolution, was it has built in data logging. So after the > dive it was very nice to be able to download into Excel about 50 variables > logged at a one minute interval. I was able to plot these and get a > detailed picture of how all the ship systems were working during the day. > > > > If anyone has any thoughts on why the vertical MK 101 thruster motors > failed, or have had any negative experience with the MK101 motor > controllers, I would love to hear them. When they are working, they are > great. > > > > All in all, I was very happy with the changes but have a few kinks to work > out before I take her out again. Now if I could just find some clear water > to dive in, I would be a happy camper! > > > > Cliff > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 6 13:58:05 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 17:58:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <185721790.2422784.1441562285253.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,I think your done herding the cats, I think you have it! ?No VBT and?powerful thrusters. ? ?I think if you want to go away from the VBT, powerful thrusters are the answer. ? For what it is worth, that is my conclusion after 150 plus dives with no VBT.Hank On Sunday, September 6, 2015 11:28 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hugh, if I lived in New Zealand, I would accept my boat as is and go exploring.? With the lake visibility so pour in Texas, it is kind of hard to see anything.? ?In other words the VBT should be flooded to capacity to achieve neutral buoyancy just under the surface and then minimum air can be added at depth to compensate for crush/buoyancy-change. I see the logic in this from an air consumption perspective but this would prevent you from going from a pilot and one passenger to pilot only without adding fixed ballast.? In this case, lets say that your VBT are at say 90% filled with water and boat is neutral and now you surface, blow MBT and 200 lb passenger exits the boat.? You could not take on enough water in VBT to compensate for the lost 200 lbs so you be forced to take on fixed ballast even with this big VBT system.??So let say instead you?design fixed ballast to get you neutral with say 50% water in VBT.? With a big VBT, if? you?dive the boat,?and have to open VBT at depth, you have to add a whole lot of fairly high pressure air to use the tank as the low pressure air in the VBT would collapse.? One way to address this would be to have the big VBT and set the neutral point at say 50% then use a PD pump on the vent leg of the VBT to adjust water level.? The key would be to find a PD pump that marine grade that does not have a lot of slip. I think designing a new psub is a lot like herding cats. Cliff On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 7:44 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,Forever the Engineer.? Why can?t you be satisfied with just accepting it the way it is and go and explore!Ok, I understand midlife crisis and all the rest. Yes, we are all the same.? Pot calling the Kettle black.? Thanks for the update. Some interesting points with the VBT.First I was horrified that I have fallen into all the same problems.? I was quite happy on having large VBT?s and now you have spoiled my day.? Then I thought the use of the VBT is in question.? ( I know Vance is going to pounce on me and correct it all )Should the boat not be weighted so the VBT is an extension of the MBT . In other words the VBT should be flooded to capacity to achieve neutral buoyancy just under the surface and then minimum air can be added at depth to compensate for crush/buoyancy-change.? Then at surface that air in the VBT can be used to expel the water.? ?As you have so timely pointed out that if there is any air volume in the VBT there is going to be a lot of air used just to neutralize the air space at depth.? It is a pain that what I had allowed for in VBT capacity was to prevent the pre-dive weigh-in and adjustable ballasts.? The other bone I have to pick with you is that I always read your blogs with great interest and then go out and buy bits as close to the same, only to find by your latest admission that you are just experimenting. It is like trying to herd cats.Regards,? Hugh ??From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 6 September 2015 2:26 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx?Why did you decide to remove the VBT?? Was it problems with the VBT system, need for the space, or...?To use a VBT or not, that is question.? In my case, I had a hard VBT, with a volume of approximately 1.1 cu ft.? Because of the size?it could only generate about 70 lbs of differential displacement.? As such I still had to add and subtract ballast to accommodate a difference in pilot weights. I found that that my VBT had a hysteresis while operating and it was sluggish in establishing neutral buoyancy.? If I got the boat neutral near the surface, then if I used the VBT at depth, there was a sudden inrush of water that would have to be blown out to get back to neutral buoyancy at depth. Adding air at depth uses a lot air and my air capacity is limited.? ?I used electrically activated ball valves on the vent and flood ports of the VBT.? It would take about two seconds for these valves to fully open or close.? While the VBT system worked, all of these factors caused the VBT to be less responsive than I would have liked.? Last weekend was the first time to dive my boat without the VBT and just relying on adjusting ballast prior to diving to get neutral and then using the vertical thrusters for descending, ascending and depth control.? I found with two MK 101s, I had much better depth control and the system was more responsive (until the last dive in which they failed).? Two other reasons I switched are that I used much less air and it gives much needed storage room behind the pilot.? It also simplified diving in that to ascend all I do now is flood the MBT, trim the boat longitudinally with a trim system that moves a 100 lb weight forward or aft hydraulically and then use the vertical thrusters.? To ascend, it is even easier, as now, all I have to do is use the vertical thrusters. VBTs need to be located at the CG/CB of the boat.? For a small boat like mine, this is an awkward location blocking access aft of the VBT.? Yes you can split the VBT in two but this doubles the values, tanks and plumbing. Having said all that, fish have swim bladders so we know?nature likes the?VBT concept.? Maybe I just need a better design for the VBT system.I have always looked at my boat as a test bed.? I change things all the time.? I have never taken the boat out configured the same way.? I will run this way for a while and see if I continue to like it as much as I do now.?? If not, I will try something different.Long answer to a short question.Cliff?On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 10:00 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Cliff,Why did you decide to remove the VBT?? Was it problems with the VBT system, need for the space, or...?Thanks,Jim?In a message dated 9/2/2015 7:22:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Alec,?Agreed, I carry a bypass cable to power up my motor in case the controller quits.? Bypass switch is a must!Hank??On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 6:04 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote:?Yes, same battery. On Tuesday, September 1, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That's real weird Cliff, especially the fact that 2 separate unitsare playing up. The only common denominator is the batteries I suppose.Are they both drawing from the same batteries?Alan?From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2015 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx?They shut down at about?3 PM on Sunday.? I disassembled them today expecting them to be filled with water but they were dry.? I reassembled today.?I charged the batteries up last night so they were full charged this morning.? ?When I powered the thrusters up today, the were at ambient temperature and the controllers had been sitting all night so they were cool.? The thrusters started up misbehaving like they did when they shut down, i.e., would not spin up.? After playing with them for about 10 minutes they both came back to life a few minutes apart.? They have been running fine ever since. ?Cliff???On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 9:00 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote:?Cliff, How much time lapsed before they fixed themselves? ?maybe they needed encouragement to restart because they were just on cusp of being cooled enough.Hank??On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 7:39 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote:?Wonderful detailed report Cliff! My theory is a thermal shutdown of the controllers as Hank suggested. Although I have no documentation on their speed controllers, the fact it fixed itself suggests that. But then on the other hand why did it take all that switching on and off to reset??This reinforces my intention to put a speed controller override into the new boat.?Best,?Alec? On Sep 1, 2015, at 5:40 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I took the R300 out this weekend.? This was the first time to have it back in water since the 2013 Psub convention in Islamorada.? The objective of the dive was to evaluate some fairly significant modifications.?To improve low speed maneuverability and reduce noise, I junked the jet pump and ailerons and went to four fixed MK 101 thrusters. I also junked the VBT and just add ballast to get neutral. Also I added a Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor to measure altitude, speed and water temperature.? It worked great.? Installed a new LED 5k light, upgraded to a new HMI, and changed the foot and joystick controls.? I also rewired the main battery bank for 36VDC rather than 120VDC and installed four MK 101 motor controllers.? I modified the aft horizontal MK-101s by adding Kort nozzles and used air to pressure compensate.? I used the same pressure reducing regulator Hugh Fulton posted about awhile back that he is using on the QSub.? ??The changes decreased the weight of boat by 200 lbs while the displacement remained the same. ??My son, wife, a diving friend and I took the boat to Canyon Lake in Texas this Sunday.? Visibility was less than 5 ft so could not see much.? My main interest at this point was just to get into water.? After launching the boat, I did some testing to get the base line ballast both mid-ship and in the stern correct so that I could get neutral and trim after flooding the MBT.? After establishing the fixed ballast, I took the boat out to test how the horizontal thrusters work for surface maneuvering. ??I was very happy with way the horizontal thrusters performed. Surface maneuverability was excellent and these motors are supper quite.? I did find that you could cavitate the props on the surface if you hit it with too much power. As before the changes, when you get up to about 4 knots, the bow wave obscures the pilots vision. ??Breaking is much improved and it is now possible to rotate on the surface or in the water column.?I then took the boat out for the first submerged maneuvering.? The vertical thrusters were very effective for depth control, pitch and roll control.? I found that it was much easier to get to specific depth and hold this depth using the vertical thrusters than the old way I did it with the VBT.? They worked great.? While removing the VBT simplified dive operations, it did result in loss of freeboard of about 1 inch.? This is a downside of removing the VBT as the freeboard was already quite low.? I just have to be careful when opening the hatch.? I opened and closed that hatch throughout the day and only took splash one time when a boat came by I did not see.?The new Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor worked great. With visibility less than 5 ft, being able to know the altitude was very helpful on dives. As usual, it got darker as you descend but knowing when the bottom was coming up was nice.? ?On the negative side, during the last dive of the day, the vertical thrusters failed while my son was on bottom in about 27 ft of water.? He had to surface using the MBT. Why these thrusters failed is a mystery.? It was at the end of the day and I had pushed the batteries pretty hard all day along but we still had plenty of battery voltage.?? My sons second attempt to surface was to put some air in the forward MBT to lift the nose and then use the aft horizontal thrusters to power to the surface.? This failed as aft horizontal thrusters were not responsive.? After surfacing with the MBT, we discovered that tree limb about 1.5? diameter had lodged in the starboard horizontal thruster between the prop and the Kort nozzle.? This explains why we lost horizontal thrust but not vertical.? After getting the boat back on the trailer, I tested the vertical thrusters.? They would barely turn even when giving them full power.? My first guess was that the air pressure compensation system failed and the thrusters were full of water.? When I got the boat back to my workshop, I disassembled both vertical thrusters and discovered they were dry. After recharging the boat, I tried the vertical thrusters again and got the same slow speed operation.? After turning them off and on for about five minutes, the starboard vertical thruster stared working correctly.? I kept switching the port vertical thruster off and on and all of a sudden, it began working correctly.? When I had the motors apart, I put a multimeter on the wires going to the brushes and found it showing 35VDC.? At this point the control signal to these motors was 2.5V so voltage to the motors should have been zero.?? My guess is that the MK motor controller is acting up.? But it is strange that both the vertical controllers would fail.? Also, if it were? bad motor controllers, then why did they both start working again.? This is still a head stumper for me.??Also towards the end of the day, the OTS underwater communication stared acting up.? Base and standby diver using an OTS Guardian full face mask could hear underwater transmissions from me but I could not receive either from the diver or from the base.? The underwater commns had been working great for the previous 7 hours.? ?I was also having trouble about this time with the VHF radio that Alec gave me.? Again I could not receive.? When I get a chance I am going to see if the connection to the antenna got disconnected.?One of the nice new features of the new HMI besides being larger and having a higher resolution, was it has built in data logging.? So after the dive it was very nice to be able to download into Excel about 50 variables logged at a one minute interval. I was able to plot these and get a detailed picture of how all the ship systems were working during the day.?If anyone has any thoughts on why the vertical MK 101 thruster motors failed, or have had any negative experience with the MK101 motor controllers, I would love to hear them.? When they are working, they are great.?All in all, I was very happy with the changes but have a few kinks to work out before I take her out again.? Now if I could just find some clear water to dive in, I would be a happy camper!?Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 6 14:51:23 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 13:51:23 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx In-Reply-To: <185721790.2422784.1441562285253.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <185721790.2422784.1441562285253.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I agree. Cliff On Sun, Sep 6, 2015 at 12:58 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > I think your done herding the cats, I think you have it! No VBT and powerful > thrusters. I think if you want to go away from the VBT, powerful > thrusters are the answer. For what it is worth, that is my conclusion > after 150 plus dives with no VBT. > Hank > > > > On Sunday, September 6, 2015 11:28 AM, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hugh, if I lived in New Zealand, I would accept my boat as is and go > exploring. With the lake visibility so pour in Texas, it is kind of hard > to see anything. > > In other words the VBT should be flooded to capacity to achieve neutral > buoyancy just under the surface and then minimum air can be added at depth > to compensate for crush/buoyancy-change. > > I see the logic in this from an air consumption perspective but this would > prevent you from going from a pilot and one passenger to pilot only without > adding fixed ballast. In this case, lets say that your VBT are at say 90% > filled with water and boat is neutral and now you surface, blow MBT and 200 > lb passenger exits the boat. You could not take on enough water in VBT to > compensate for the lost 200 lbs so you be forced to take on fixed ballast > even with this big VBT system. So let say instead you design fixed ballast > to get you neutral with say 50% water in VBT. With a big VBT, if you dive > the boat, and have to open VBT at depth, you have to add a whole lot of > fairly high pressure air to use the tank as the low pressure air in the VBT > would collapse. One way to address this would be to have the big VBT and > set the neutral point at say 50% then use a PD pump on the vent leg of the > VBT to adjust water level. The key would be to find a PD pump that marine > grade that does not have a lot of slip. > > I think designing a new psub is a lot like herding cats. > > Cliff > > On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 7:44 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, > Forever the Engineer. Why can?t you be satisfied with just accepting it > the way it is and go and explore! > Ok, I understand midlife crisis and all the rest. Yes, we are all the > same. Pot calling the Kettle black. Thanks for the update. Some > interesting points with the VBT. > First I was horrified that I have fallen into all the same problems. I > was quite happy on having large VBT?s and now you have spoiled my day. > Then I thought the use of the VBT is in question. ( I know Vance is going > to pounce on me and correct it all ) > Should the boat not be weighted so the VBT is an extension of the MBT . In > other words the VBT should be flooded to capacity to achieve neutral > buoyancy just under the surface and then minimum air can be added at depth > to compensate for crush/buoyancy-change. Then at surface that air in the > VBT can be used to expel the water. As you have so timely pointed out > that if there is any air volume in the VBT there is going to be a lot of > air used just to neutralize the air space at depth. It is a pain that what > I had allowed for in VBT capacity was to prevent the pre-dive weigh-in and > adjustable ballasts. > The other bone I have to pick with you is that I always read your blogs > with great interest and then go out and buy bits as close to the same, only > to find by your latest admission that you are just experimenting. It is > like trying to herd cats. > Regards, Hugh > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Sunday, 6 September 2015 2:26 a.m. > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx > > *Why did you decide to remove the VBT? Was it problems with the VBT > system, need for the space, or...?* > *To use a VBT or not, that is question. In my case, I had a hard VBT, > with a volume of approximately 1.1 cu ft. Because of the size it could > only generate about 70 lbs of differential displacement. As such I still > had to add and subtract ballast to accommodate a difference in pilot > weights. I found that that my VBT had a hysteresis while operating and it > was sluggish in establishing neutral buoyancy. If I got the boat neutral > near the surface, then if I used the VBT at depth, there was a sudden > inrush of water that would have to be blown out to get back to neutral > buoyancy at depth. Adding air at depth uses a lot air and my air capacity > is limited. I used electrically activated ball valves on the vent and > flood ports of the VBT. It would take about two seconds for these valves > to fully open or close. While the VBT system worked, all of these factors > caused the VBT to be less responsive than I would have liked. Last weekend > was the first time to dive my boat without the VBT and just relying on > adjusting ballast prior to diving to get neutral and then using the > vertical thrusters for descending, ascending and depth control. I found > with two MK 101s, I had much better depth control and the system was more > responsive (until the last dive in which they failed). Two other reasons I > switched are that I used much less air and it gives much needed storage > room behind the pilot. It also simplified diving in that to ascend all I > do now is flood the MBT, trim the boat longitudinally with a trim system > that moves a 100 lb weight forward or aft hydraulically and then use the > vertical thrusters. To ascend, it is even easier, as now, all I have to do > is use the vertical thrusters. VBTs need to be located at the CG/CB of the > boat. For a small boat like mine, this is an awkward location blocking > access aft of the VBT. Yes you can split the VBT in two but this doubles > the values, tanks and plumbing. * > *Having said all that, fish have swim bladders so we know nature likes > the VBT concept. Maybe I just need a better design for the VBT system.* > *I have always looked at my boat as a test bed. I change things all the > time. I have never taken the boat out configured the same way. I will run > this way for a while and see if I continue to like it as much as I do > now. If not, I will try something different.* > *Long answer to a short question.* > *Cliff* > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 10:00 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > Why did you decide to remove the VBT? Was it problems with the VBT > system, need for the space, or...? > Thanks, > Jim > > In a message dated 9/2/2015 7:22:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > > Alec, > Agreed, I carry a bypass cable to power up my motor in case the controller > quits. Bypass switch is a must! > Hank > > > On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 6:04 AM, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Yes, same battery. > > On Tuesday, September 1, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > That's real weird Cliff, especially the fact that 2 separate units > are playing up. The only common denominator is the batteries I suppose. > Are they both drawing from the same batteries? > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 2, 2015 2:21 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx > > They shut down at about 3 PM on Sunday. I disassembled them today > expecting them to be filled with water but they were dry. I reassembled > today. I charged the batteries up last night so they were full charged this > morning. When I powered the thrusters up today, the were at ambient > temperature and the controllers had been sitting all night so they were > cool. The thrusters started up misbehaving like they did when they shut > down, i.e., would not spin up. After playing with them for about 10 > minutes they both came back to life a few minutes apart. They have been > running fine ever since. > > Cliff > > > > On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 9:00 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, How much time lapsed before they fixed themselves? maybe they > needed encouragement to restart because they were just on cusp of being > cooled enough. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 7:39 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Wonderful detailed report Cliff! My theory is a thermal shutdown of the > controllers as Hank suggested. Although I have no documentation on their > speed controllers, the fact it fixed itself suggests that. But then on the > other hand why did it take all that switching on and off to reset? > > This reinforces my intention to put a speed controller override into the > new boat. > > Best, > > Alec > > > On Sep 1, 2015, at 5:40 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I took the R300 out this weekend. This was the first time to have it back > in water since the 2013 Psub convention in Islamorada. The objective of > the dive was to evaluate some fairly significant modifications. > > To improve low speed maneuverability and reduce noise, I junked the jet > pump and ailerons and went to four fixed MK 101 thrusters. I also junked > the VBT and just add ballast to get neutral. Also I added a Garmin AIRMAR > DST800 Smart Sensor to measure altitude, speed and water temperature. It > worked great. Installed a new LED 5k light, upgraded to a new HMI, and > changed the foot and joystick controls. I also rewired the main battery > bank for 36VDC rather than 120VDC and installed four MK 101 motor > controllers. I modified the aft horizontal MK-101s by adding Kort nozzles > and used air to pressure compensate. I used the same pressure reducing > regulator Hugh Fulton posted about awhile back that he is using on the > QSub. The changes decreased the weight of boat by 200 lbs while the > displacement remained the same. > > My son, wife, a diving friend and I took the boat to Canyon Lake in Texas > this Sunday. Visibility was less than 5 ft so could not see much. My main > interest at this point was just to get into water. After launching the > boat, I did some testing to get the base line ballast both mid-ship and in > the stern correct so that I could get neutral and trim after flooding the > MBT. After establishing the fixed ballast, I took the boat out to test how > the horizontal thrusters work for surface maneuvering. I was very happy > with way the horizontal thrusters performed. Surface maneuverability was > excellent and these motors are supper quite. I did find that you could > cavitate the props on the surface if you hit it with too much power. As > before the changes, when you get up to about 4 knots, the bow wave obscures > the pilots vision. Breaking is much improved and it is now possible to > rotate on the surface or in the water column. > > I then took the boat out for the first submerged maneuvering. The > vertical thrusters were very effective for depth control, pitch and roll > control. I found that it was much easier to get to specific depth and hold > this depth using the vertical thrusters than the old way I did it with the > VBT. They worked great. While removing the VBT simplified dive > operations, it did result in loss of freeboard of about 1 inch. This is a > downside of removing the VBT as the freeboard was already quite low. I > just have to be careful when opening the hatch. I opened and closed that > hatch throughout the day and only took splash one time when a boat came by > I did not see. > > The new Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor worked great. With visibility > less than 5 ft, being able to know the altitude was very helpful on dives. > As usual, it got darker as you descend but knowing when the bottom was > coming up was nice. > > On the negative side, during the last dive of the day, the vertical > thrusters failed while my son was on bottom in about 27 ft of water. He > had to surface using the MBT. Why these thrusters failed is a mystery. It > was at the end of the day and I had pushed the batteries pretty hard all > day along but we still had plenty of battery voltage. My sons second > attempt to surface was to put some air in the forward MBT to lift the nose > and then use the aft horizontal thrusters to power to the surface. This > failed as aft horizontal thrusters were not responsive. After surfacing > with the MBT, we discovered that tree limb about 1.5? diameter had lodged > in the starboard horizontal thruster between the prop and the Kort nozzle. > This explains why we lost horizontal thrust but not vertical. After > getting the boat back on the trailer, I tested the vertical thrusters. > They would barely turn even when giving them full power. My first guess > was that the air pressure compensation system failed and the thrusters were > full of water. When I got the boat back to my workshop, I disassembled > both vertical thrusters and discovered they were dry. After recharging the > boat, I tried the vertical thrusters again and got the same slow speed > operation. After turning them off and on for about five minutes, the > starboard vertical thruster stared working correctly. I kept switching the > port vertical thruster off and on and all of a sudden, it began working > correctly. When I had the motors apart, I put a multimeter on the wires > going to the brushes and found it showing 35VDC. At this point the control > signal to these motors was 2.5V so voltage to the motors should have been > zero. My guess is that the MK motor controller is acting up. But it is > strange that both the vertical controllers would fail. Also, if it were > bad motor controllers, then why did they both start working again. This is > still a head stumper for me. > > Also towards the end of the day, the OTS underwater communication stared > acting up. Base and standby diver using an OTS Guardian full face mask > could hear underwater transmissions from me but I could not receive either > from the diver or from the base. The underwater commns had been working > great for the previous 7 hours. I was also having trouble about this time > with the VHF radio that Alec gave me. Again I could not receive. When I > get a chance I am going to see if the connection to the antenna got > disconnected. > > One of the nice new features of the new HMI besides being larger and > having a higher resolution, was it has built in data logging. So after the > dive it was very nice to be able to download into Excel about 50 variables > logged at a one minute interval. I was able to plot these and get a > detailed picture of how all the ship systems were working during the day. > > If anyone has any thoughts on why the vertical MK 101 thruster motors > failed, or have had any negative experience with the MK101 motor > controllers, I would love to hear them. When they are working, they are > great. > > All in all, I was very happy with the changes but have a few kinks to work > out before I take her out again. Now if I could just find some clear water > to dive in, I would be a happy camper! > > Cliff > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 6 16:24:17 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 20:24:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1193828100.2496460.1441571058054.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,How does your R300 steer, is it like the DW's ?steers with the motors?Hank On Sunday, September 6, 2015 12:51 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I agree. Cliff On Sun, Sep 6, 2015 at 12:58 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,I think your done herding the cats, I think you have it!? No VBT and?powerful thrusters. ? ?I think if you want to go away from the VBT, powerful thrusters are the answer. ? For what it is worth, that is my conclusion after 150 plus dives with no VBT.Hank On Sunday, September 6, 2015 11:28 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hugh, if I lived in New Zealand, I would accept my boat as is and go exploring.? With the lake visibility so pour in Texas, it is kind of hard to see anything.? ?In other words the VBT should be flooded to capacity to achieve neutral buoyancy just under the surface and then minimum air can be added at depth to compensate for crush/buoyancy-change. I see the logic in this from an air consumption perspective but this would prevent you from going from a pilot and one passenger to pilot only without adding fixed ballast.? In this case, lets say that your VBT are at say 90% filled with water and boat is neutral and now you surface, blow MBT and 200 lb passenger exits the boat.? You could not take on enough water in VBT to compensate for the lost 200 lbs so you be forced to take on fixed ballast even with this big VBT system.??So let say instead you?design fixed ballast to get you neutral with say 50% water in VBT.? With a big VBT, if? you?dive the boat,?and have to open VBT at depth, you have to add a whole lot of fairly high pressure air to use the tank as the low pressure air in the VBT would collapse.? One way to address this would be to have the big VBT and set the neutral point at say 50% then use a PD pump on the vent leg of the VBT to adjust water level.? The key would be to find a PD pump that marine grade that does not have a lot of slip. I think designing a new psub is a lot like herding cats. Cliff On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 7:44 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,Forever the Engineer.? Why can?t you be satisfied with just accepting it the way it is and go and explore!Ok, I understand midlife crisis and all the rest. Yes, we are all the same.? Pot calling the Kettle black.? Thanks for the update. Some interesting points with the VBT.First I was horrified that I have fallen into all the same problems.? I was quite happy on having large VBT?s and now you have spoiled my day.? Then I thought the use of the VBT is in question.? ( I know Vance is going to pounce on me and correct it all )Should the boat not be weighted so the VBT is an extension of the MBT . In other words the VBT should be flooded to capacity to achieve neutral buoyancy just under the surface and then minimum air can be added at depth to compensate for crush/buoyancy-change.? Then at surface that air in the VBT can be used to expel the water.? ?As you have so timely pointed out that if there is any air volume in the VBT there is going to be a lot of air used just to neutralize the air space at depth.? It is a pain that what I had allowed for in VBT capacity was to prevent the pre-dive weigh-in and adjustable ballasts.? The other bone I have to pick with you is that I always read your blogs with great interest and then go out and buy bits as close to the same, only to find by your latest admission that you are just experimenting. It is like trying to herd cats.Regards,? Hugh ??From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 6 September 2015 2:26 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx?Why did you decide to remove the VBT?? Was it problems with the VBT system, need for the space, or...?To use a VBT or not, that is question.? In my case, I had a hard VBT, with a volume of approximately 1.1 cu ft.? Because of the size?it could only generate about 70 lbs of differential displacement.? As such I still had to add and subtract ballast to accommodate a difference in pilot weights. I found that that my VBT had a hysteresis while operating and it was sluggish in establishing neutral buoyancy.? If I got the boat neutral near the surface, then if I used the VBT at depth, there was a sudden inrush of water that would have to be blown out to get back to neutral buoyancy at depth. Adding air at depth uses a lot air and my air capacity is limited.? ?I used electrically activated ball valves on the vent and flood ports of the VBT.? It would take about two seconds for these valves to fully open or close.? While the VBT system worked, all of these factors caused the VBT to be less responsive than I would have liked.? Last weekend was the first time to dive my boat without the VBT and just relying on adjusting ballast prior to diving to get neutral and then using the vertical thrusters for descending, ascending and depth control.? I found with two MK 101s, I had much better depth control and the system was more responsive (until the last dive in which they failed).? Two other reasons I switched are that I used much less air and it gives much needed storage room behind the pilot.? It also simplified diving in that to ascend all I do now is flood the MBT, trim the boat longitudinally with a trim system that moves a 100 lb weight forward or aft hydraulically and then use the vertical thrusters.? To ascend, it is even easier, as now, all I have to do is use the vertical thrusters. VBTs need to be located at the CG/CB of the boat.? For a small boat like mine, this is an awkward location blocking access aft of the VBT.? Yes you can split the VBT in two but this doubles the values, tanks and plumbing. Having said all that, fish have swim bladders so we know?nature likes the?VBT concept.? Maybe I just need a better design for the VBT system.I have always looked at my boat as a test bed.? I change things all the time.? I have never taken the boat out configured the same way.? I will run this way for a while and see if I continue to like it as much as I do now.?? If not, I will try something different.Long answer to a short question.Cliff?On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 10:00 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Cliff,Why did you decide to remove the VBT?? Was it problems with the VBT system, need for the space, or...?Thanks,Jim?In a message dated 9/2/2015 7:22:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Alec,?Agreed, I carry a bypass cable to power up my motor in case the controller quits.? Bypass switch is a must!Hank??On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 6:04 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote:?Yes, same battery. On Tuesday, September 1, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That's real weird Cliff, especially the fact that 2 separate unitsare playing up. The only common denominator is the batteries I suppose.Are they both drawing from the same batteries?Alan?From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2015 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx?They shut down at about?3 PM on Sunday.? I disassembled them today expecting them to be filled with water but they were dry.? I reassembled today.?I charged the batteries up last night so they were full charged this morning.? ?When I powered the thrusters up today, the were at ambient temperature and the controllers had been sitting all night so they were cool.? The thrusters started up misbehaving like they did when they shut down, i.e., would not spin up.? After playing with them for about 10 minutes they both came back to life a few minutes apart.? They have been running fine ever since. ?Cliff???On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 9:00 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote:?Cliff, How much time lapsed before they fixed themselves? ?maybe they needed encouragement to restart because they were just on cusp of being cooled enough.Hank??On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 7:39 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote:?Wonderful detailed report Cliff! My theory is a thermal shutdown of the controllers as Hank suggested. Although I have no documentation on their speed controllers, the fact it fixed itself suggests that. But then on the other hand why did it take all that switching on and off to reset??This reinforces my intention to put a speed controller override into the new boat.?Best,?Alec? On Sep 1, 2015, at 5:40 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I took the R300 out this weekend.? This was the first time to have it back in water since the 2013 Psub convention in Islamorada.? The objective of the dive was to evaluate some fairly significant modifications.?To improve low speed maneuverability and reduce noise, I junked the jet pump and ailerons and went to four fixed MK 101 thrusters. I also junked the VBT and just add ballast to get neutral. Also I added a Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor to measure altitude, speed and water temperature.? It worked great.? Installed a new LED 5k light, upgraded to a new HMI, and changed the foot and joystick controls.? I also rewired the main battery bank for 36VDC rather than 120VDC and installed four MK 101 motor controllers.? I modified the aft horizontal MK-101s by adding Kort nozzles and used air to pressure compensate.? I used the same pressure reducing regulator Hugh Fulton posted about awhile back that he is using on the QSub.? ??The changes decreased the weight of boat by 200 lbs while the displacement remained the same. ??My son, wife, a diving friend and I took the boat to Canyon Lake in Texas this Sunday.? Visibility was less than 5 ft so could not see much.? My main interest at this point was just to get into water.? After launching the boat, I did some testing to get the base line ballast both mid-ship and in the stern correct so that I could get neutral and trim after flooding the MBT.? After establishing the fixed ballast, I took the boat out to test how the horizontal thrusters work for surface maneuvering. ??I was very happy with way the horizontal thrusters performed. Surface maneuverability was excellent and these motors are supper quite.? I did find that you could cavitate the props on the surface if you hit it with too much power. As before the changes, when you get up to about 4 knots, the bow wave obscures the pilots vision. ??Breaking is much improved and it is now possible to rotate on the surface or in the water column.?I then took the boat out for the first submerged maneuvering.? The vertical thrusters were very effective for depth control, pitch and roll control.? I found that it was much easier to get to specific depth and hold this depth using the vertical thrusters than the old way I did it with the VBT.? They worked great.? While removing the VBT simplified dive operations, it did result in loss of freeboard of about 1 inch.? This is a downside of removing the VBT as the freeboard was already quite low.? I just have to be careful when opening the hatch.? I opened and closed that hatch throughout the day and only took splash one time when a boat came by I did not see.?The new Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor worked great. With visibility less than 5 ft, being able to know the altitude was very helpful on dives. As usual, it got darker as you descend but knowing when the bottom was coming up was nice.? ?On the negative side, during the last dive of the day, the vertical thrusters failed while my son was on bottom in about 27 ft of water.? He had to surface using the MBT. Why these thrusters failed is a mystery.? It was at the end of the day and I had pushed the batteries pretty hard all day along but we still had plenty of battery voltage.?? My sons second attempt to surface was to put some air in the forward MBT to lift the nose and then use the aft horizontal thrusters to power to the surface.? This failed as aft horizontal thrusters were not responsive.? After surfacing with the MBT, we discovered that tree limb about 1.5? diameter had lodged in the starboard horizontal thruster between the prop and the Kort nozzle.? This explains why we lost horizontal thrust but not vertical.? After getting the boat back on the trailer, I tested the vertical thrusters.? They would barely turn even when giving them full power.? My first guess was that the air pressure compensation system failed and the thrusters were full of water.? When I got the boat back to my workshop, I disassembled both vertical thrusters and discovered they were dry. After recharging the boat, I tried the vertical thrusters again and got the same slow speed operation.? After turning them off and on for about five minutes, the starboard vertical thruster stared working correctly.? I kept switching the port vertical thruster off and on and all of a sudden, it began working correctly.? When I had the motors apart, I put a multimeter on the wires going to the brushes and found it showing 35VDC.? At this point the control signal to these motors was 2.5V so voltage to the motors should have been zero.?? My guess is that the MK motor controller is acting up.? But it is strange that both the vertical controllers would fail.? Also, if it were? bad motor controllers, then why did they both start working again.? This is still a head stumper for me.??Also towards the end of the day, the OTS underwater communication stared acting up.? Base and standby diver using an OTS Guardian full face mask could hear underwater transmissions from me but I could not receive either from the diver or from the base.? The underwater commns had been working great for the previous 7 hours.? ?I was also having trouble about this time with the VHF radio that Alec gave me.? Again I could not receive.? When I get a chance I am going to see if the connection to the antenna got disconnected.?One of the nice new features of the new HMI besides being larger and having a higher resolution, was it has built in data logging.? So after the dive it was very nice to be able to download into Excel about 50 variables logged at a one minute interval. I was able to plot these and get a detailed picture of how all the ship systems were working during the day.?If anyone has any thoughts on why the vertical MK 101 thruster motors failed, or have had any negative experience with the MK101 motor controllers, I would love to hear them.? When they are working, they are great.?All in all, I was very happy with the changes but have a few kinks to work out before I take her out again.? Now if I could just find some clear water to dive in, I would be a happy camper!?Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 6 18:37:16 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 18:37:16 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Over Pressure Valve Message-ID: <6f459.113ed7ec.431e1a1c@aol.com> Brian: from 6-18-2015 Jim ____________________________________ From: JimToddPsub at aol.com To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: 6/18/2015 2:51:21 P.M. Central Daylight Time Subj: Over Pressure Valve If the pressure differential exceeds the preset cracking pressure, the valve will open on its own to relieve the excess pressure. If the pressure differential is less than the cracking pressure, it would have to be opened manually. If the differential were only slightly greater than the preset cracking pressure, I suppose opening it manually would open it wider for more rapid equalization on many types of valves. Jim In a message dated 6/18/2015 2:40:58 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Jim, In that case is it necessary to bump the sealed check valve to make it open? Alec, I guess what I meant to say was if the check valve is left in an open line to the outside all the time, rather than being isolated by another valve. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Idea..? Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2015 14:53:15 -0400 Brian, it also has to do with cracking pressure. When you surface the sub might be slightly over pressure but not with enough differential to open the valve automatically. That's when you open it manually. That would also equalize pressure if you have negative pressure in the sub to make it a whole lot easier to open the hatch. Jim In a message dated 6/18/2015 1:40:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: It is nothing but a T shape sealed by a spring. If internal pressure builds up, it pushes the spring and the valve opens. So it is a normally closed valve... but I suppose you could say its "open all the time" in the sense that anytime pressure builds up, it will open. On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 2:35 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Couldn't you, theoretically, have that valve open to the outside all the time? Brian --- _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) wrote: From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Idea..? Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2015 12:15:57 -0400 I think most have an OP valve, and I'd strongly encourage any who don't to put one in. If you read Kittredge's book, the lack of an OP valve was the cause of the only K-boat accident so far. Fortunately nothing happened to him, but Kittredge had a slow cabin air leak during his dive and upon surfacing blew out the dome when just below the surface. He was blown out himself with it. The sub sank, and he proceeded to re-float it without losing beat. I use the OP valve routinely to equalize pressure so I can open the hatch easily. Just a little push on the stem does it. One thing about OP valves, they have to be capable of handling large flow rates. Don't use a little Swagelok check valve or such small thing. Best, Alec On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 10:55 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Also Alec, I noticed your check valve overpressure valve in the photo section. That seems like a great solution to the problem! I guess I was not aware of that, does everybody have one of those? Brian --- _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Idea..? Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2015 05:25:30 -0700 personally, I always avoid welding a machined part to the hull. I weld a flange or nipple to the hull then bolt or thread the machined part to that. This is my solution to a lack of tooling and expertise. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 6/18/15, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Idea..? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > Received: Thursday, June 18, 2015, 4:58 AM Hi Alec\Brian, Yes, maybe it would push in. A flat step would probably be better like you say. But maybe im over thinking it as usual. Probably not required. Brian, I used the 5\8ths bar because that's what was specified on the plans. However, its also convenient for using a 16mm reamer for the bore. regardsJames On 18 June 2015 at 03:04, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Oh cool ! Thanks Alec ! I owe you much over the years ! Brian --- _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) wrote: From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Idea..? Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 16:40:56 -0400 Hi Brian, I tend to use quite thick through-hulls because its easier for me to machine the O-ring grooves into the shaft than into the insert. In my case its just a matter of the tooling I have on hand. If you have the tooling to put the grooves in the insert, half an inch is fine for many applications. Best, Alec On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 3:22 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Alec, James, I'm using mostly 1/2" stainless rod through-out for most all of my hull penetrations ( for valves and flaps) , I noticed in the example it was a 5/8" rod, Why such a heavy duty thickness? Was that for a particular function? Brian --- _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) wrote: From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Idea..? Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 14:03:17 -0400 Hi James, I think with the taper, this would tend to push in and jam. The idea is neat, however, and would probably work fine with a step instead of a taper. On the other hand, does an O ring sealed through-hull ever fail catastrophically? I've had the odd drip, but that's all I've bad as I've seen. Best, Alec On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 12:26 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Hi All Seeing as its a bit quite I thought I would show this idea. Its super simple.... I have been thinking how you could stop a leaking through hull. Thinking of K boat type 5\8th through hulls as in the plans. I believe Scott had a leak when he did his deep test due to a faulty O ring? Anyway, here is my idea. It would take a little bit more machining, but not much. Machine the 5\8ths bar with a taper on the protruding part and a taper on the top to help push the bar through. (I did that on mine anyway). The handle is made with a cam type end. If you get a leak, you can pull the handle up. The bar would be pulled up, forcing the taper to jam into the penetrator, hopefully stopping most of the leak. I suppose you could even machine a matching taper into the start of the through hull to match? I suppose the bar could get pushed through and jam on its own. That's a possibility. Pic attached. Kind RegardsJames ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles --089e01183c9e6a94500518ba817f--____________________________________________ ___ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles --001a113f7c343925380518bcb506--____________________________________________ ___ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (http:///eonapps/ft/wm/page/compose?send_to=Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mip://165d0460/eonapps/ft/wm/page/compose?send_to=Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 6 18:37:25 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 18:37:25 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] altimeter ? Message-ID: <6f45d.4b5bc352.431e1a25@aol.com> You're welcome, Brian, I'm not sure your ears would tell you if you had a an increase in pressure to 17.5 psi if it happened gradually. That's just equal to descending in a plane from 5,000 ft. MSL to sea level. It would depend on the rate of the pressure change and the ability of a given individuals ears to rapidly equalize. There are others who can tell you more than I can about the range of cracking pressure adjustment on OP valves. I expect you would want one that you could adjust to less than one pound differential. One pound isn't much, but when you multiply it by the number of square inches on a dome or hatch it can get significant. Another major consideration is how rapidly the valve can vent compared to your rate of ascent. There was a thread discussing this in June 2015 (actually two threads simultaneously). I'll forward one of those emails and you can then open others from around that date. Jim In a message dated 9/6/2015 12:04:34 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Jim, Thanks ! Yes, I figured that those units would not register so much on the negative sea level side. But it looks like they do go a few psi ( 17.5) which would be 6.2 feet of water depth. Enough that your ears would tell you you have a pressure increase. Do they make over pressure valves that are sensitive to just a few pounds? And I assume I should have one, since I don't want my windows blowing out from a uncontrolled over pressure accident, although they would probably just bleed air in that situation. Do all the Kittridge subs have OP valves? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] altimeter ? Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 10:16:06 -0400 Brian, Assuming your starting point is sea level pressure or 0 feet of altitude, if the altimeter reading moves to -1000 feet you would have an over-pressure of a half pound (scroll down to the chart below). Since altimeters are designed primarily to register pressures less than 14.7 psi, I'm not sure what effective range most of them have at pressures greater than that. As referenced in Lasse's first link, the ANSI standard for accuracy goes down to -700 feet. The higher the pressure, the lower the altitude (cabin pressure altitude, not depth in the water). In a sub I would generally prefer an analog altimeter. Set the pointer straight up at 0 to start, and any decrease or increase in cabin pressure quickly registers by the pointer moving left or right. Jim T. . The table below indicates air pressure at elevations below and above sea level. Altitude Above Sea Level Absolute Barometer Absolute Atmospheric Pressure feet meters inches Hg mm Hg psia kg/cm2 kPa -5000 -1524 35.7 914 17.5 1.23 121 -4500 -1372 35.1 898 17.2 1.21 119 -4000 -1219 34.5 882 16.9 1.19 117 -3500 -1067 33.9 867 16.6 1.17 115 -3000 -914 33.3 852 16.4 1.15 113 -2500 -762 32.7 837 16.1 1.13 111 -2000 -610 32.1 822 15.8 1.11 109 -1500 -457 31.6 807 15.5 1.09 107 -1000 -305 31.0 793 15.2 1.07 105 -500 -152 30.5 779 15.0 1.05 103 01) 0 29.9 765 14.7 1.03 101 500 152 29.4 751 14.4 1.01 99.5 1000 305 28.9 738 14.2 0.997 97.7 1500 457 28.3 724 13.9 0.979 96.0 2000 610 27.8 711 13.7 0.961 94.2 2500 762 27.3 698 13.4 0.943 92.5 3000 914 26.8 686 13.2 0.926 90.8 3500 1067 26.3 673 12.9 0.909 89.1 4000 1219 25.8 661 12.7 0.893 87.5 4500 1372 25.4 649 12.5 0.876 85.9 5000 1524 24.9 637 12.2 0.860 84.3 6000 1829 24.0 613 11.8 0.828 81.2 7000 2134 23.1 590 11.3 0.797 78.2 8000 2438 22.2 568 10.9 0.768 75.3 9000 2743 21.4 547 10.5 0.739 72.4 10000 3048 20.6 526 10.1 0.711 69.7 15000 4572 16.9 432 8.29 0.583 57.2 20000 6096 13.8 352 6.75 0.475 46.6 25000 7620 11.1 284 5.45 0.384 37.6 30000 9144 8.89 227 4.36 0.307 30.1 35000 10668 7.04 180 3.46 0.243 23.8 40000 12192 5.52 141 2.71 0.191 18.7 45000 13716 4.28 109 2.10 0.148 14.5 50000 15240 3.27 83.6 1.61 0.113 11.1 In a message dated 9/6/2015 3:02:15 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Brian, They usually show reference pressure in Inches Mercury or Millibars. The one I have goes from 1040 to 930 Mbar, calibrated to 20.000 feet. I can recommend this MGL instrument, it also shows if you are descending or rising. The price is good for such an instrument. It is digital, background lighted and light. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/11-05684.php Other altimeters are found here: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/in/altimeters.html Lasse 2015-09-06 5:24 GMT+02:00 Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >: Hi All, I was thinking about getting an altimeter, The question I have is: What is the top end range of pressure those things will read? I assume that they start at 14.7 psi. But I guess they are calibrated in feet of air. So If you had an over pressure situation what is the highest reading you would see? thanks, Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Lasse Schmidt Westr?n Upplevelsepresent.se 070-28 32 660 Upplevelser, events och kryssningar. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mip://0cbb24a8/eonapps/ft/wm/page/compose?send_to=Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 6 18:51:27 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 22:51:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx In-Reply-To: <55eb8c4e.040d460a.c36a1.372a@mx.google.com> References: <94103.6f584dfc.431bb4bf@aol.com> <55eb8c4e.040d460a.c36a1.372a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1465218399.2277165.1441579887140.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff, Hugh.I am pretty sure the Triton VBT pumped water in to a large external VBT, & the displacedair went back in to the hull & vice versa. This saves on compressed air.Mind you they have a large enough pressure?hull that the pressure differance caused by this is?of little note.Alan From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2015 12:44 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx #yiv7632374914 #yiv7632374914 -- _filtered #yiv7632374914 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7632374914 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7632374914 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7632374914 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv7632374914 #yiv7632374914 p.yiv7632374914MsoNormal, #yiv7632374914 li.yiv7632374914MsoNormal, #yiv7632374914 div.yiv7632374914MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv7632374914 a:link, #yiv7632374914 span.yiv7632374914MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7632374914 a:visited, #yiv7632374914 span.yiv7632374914MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7632374914 p {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv7632374914 p.yiv7632374914MsoAcetate, #yiv7632374914 li.yiv7632374914MsoAcetate, #yiv7632374914 div.yiv7632374914MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv7632374914 span.yiv7632374914EmailStyle19 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv7632374914 span.yiv7632374914BalloonTextChar {}#yiv7632374914 .yiv7632374914MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv7632374914 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv7632374914 div.yiv7632374914WordSection1 {}#yiv7632374914 Cliff,Forever the Engineer.? Why can?t you be satisfied with just accepting it the way it is and go and explore!Ok, I understand midlife crisis and all the rest. Yes, we are all the same.? Pot calling the Kettle black.? Thanks for the update. Some interesting points with the VBT.First I was horrified that I have fallen into all the same problems.? I was quite happy on having large VBT?s and now you have spoiled my day.? Then I thought the use of the VBT is in question.? ( I know Vance is going to pounce on me and correct it all )Should the boat not be weighted so the VBT is an extension of the MBT . In other words the VBT should be flooded to capacity to achieve neutral buoyancy just under the surface and then minimum air can be added at depth to compensate for crush/buoyancy-change.? Then at surface that air in the VBT can be used to expel the water.? ?As you have so timely pointed out that if there is any air volume in the VBT there is going to be a lot of air used just to neutralize the air space at depth.? It is a pain that what I had allowed for in VBT capacity was to prevent the pre-dive weigh-in and adjustable ballasts.? The other bone I have to pick with you is that I always read your blogs with great interest and then go out and buy bits as close to the same, only to find by your latest admission that you are just experimenting. It is like trying to herd cats.Regards,? Hugh ? ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 6 September 2015 2:26 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx ?Why did you decide to remove the VBT?? Was it problems with the VBT system, need for the space, or...?To use a VBT or not, that is question.? In my case, I had a hard VBT, with a volume of approximately 1.1 cu ft.? Because of the size?it could only generate about 70 lbs of differential displacement.? As such I still had to add and subtract ballast to accommodate a difference in pilot weights. I found that that my VBT had a hysteresis while operating and it was sluggish in establishing neutral buoyancy.? If I got the boat neutral near the surface, then if I used the VBT at depth, there was a sudden inrush of water that would have to be blown out to get back to neutral buoyancy at depth. Adding air at depth uses a lot air and my air capacity is limited.? ?I used electrically activated ball valves on the vent and flood ports of the VBT.? It would take about two seconds for these valves to fully open or close.? While the VBT system worked, all of these factors caused the VBT to be less responsive than I would have liked.? Last weekend was the first time to dive my boat without the VBT and just relying on adjusting ballast prior to diving to get neutral and then using the vertical thrusters for descending, ascending and depth control.? I found with two MK 101s, I had much better depth control and the system was more responsive (until the last dive in which they failed).? Two other reasons I switched are that I used much less air and it gives much needed storage room behind the pilot.? It also simplified diving in that to ascend all I do now is flood the MBT, trim the boat longitudinally with a trim system that moves a 100 lb weight forward or aft hydraulically and then use the vertical thrusters.? To ascend, it is even easier, as now, all I have to do is use the vertical thrusters. VBTs need to be located at the CG/CB of the boat.? For a small boat like mine, this is an awkward location blocking access aft of the VBT.? Yes you can split the VBT in two but this doubles the values, tanks and plumbing. Having said all that, fish have swim bladders so we know?nature likes the?VBT concept.? Maybe I just need a better design for the VBT system.I have always looked at my boat as a test bed.? I change things all the time.? I have never taken the boat out configured the same way.? I will run this way for a while and see if I continue to like it as much as I do now.?? If not, I will try something different.Long answer to a short question.Cliff ?On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 10:00 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Cliff,Why did you decide to remove the VBT?? Was it problems with the VBT system, need for the space, or...?Thanks,Jim?In a message dated 9/2/2015 7:22:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Alec,?Agreed, I carry a bypass cable to power up my motor in case the controller quits.? Bypass switch is a must!Hank ? ?On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 6:04 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Yes, same battery. On Tuesday, September 1, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That's real weird Cliff, especially the fact that 2 separate unitsare playing up. The only common denominator is the batteries I suppose.Are they both drawing from the same batteries?Alan ?From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2015 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 Dive report - Canyon Lake, Tx ?They shut down at about?3 PM on Sunday.? I disassembled them today expecting them to be filled with water but they were dry.? I reassembled today.?I charged the batteries up last night so they were full charged this morning.? ?When I powered the thrusters up today, the were at ambient temperature and the controllers had been sitting all night so they were cool.? The thrusters started up misbehaving like they did when they shut down, i.e., would not spin up.? After playing with them for about 10 minutes they both came back to life a few minutes apart.? They have been running fine ever since. ?Cliff ? ? ?On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 9:00 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Cliff, How much time lapsed before they fixed themselves? ?maybe they needed encouragement to restart because they were just on cusp of being cooled enough.Hank ? ?On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 7:39 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Wonderful detailed report Cliff! My theory is a thermal shutdown of the controllers as Hank suggested. Although I have no documentation on their speed controllers, the fact it fixed itself suggests that. But then on the other hand why did it take all that switching on and off to reset? ?This reinforces my intention to put a speed controller override into the new boat. ?Best, ?Alec ? On Sep 1, 2015, at 5:40 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I took the R300 out this weekend.? This was the first time to have it back in water since the 2013 Psub convention in Islamorada.? The objective of the dive was to evaluate some fairly significant modifications. ?To improve low speed maneuverability and reduce noise, I junked the jet pump and ailerons and went to four fixed MK 101 thrusters. I also junked the VBT and just add ballast to get neutral. Also I added a Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor to measure altitude, speed and water temperature.? It worked great.? Installed a new LED 5k light, upgraded to a new HMI, and changed the foot and joystick controls. ?I also rewired the main battery bank for 36VDC rather than 120VDC and installed four MK 101 motor controllers.? I modified the aft horizontal MK-101s by adding Kort nozzles and used air to pressure compensate.? I used the same pressure reducing regulator Hugh Fulton posted about awhile back that he is using on the QSub.? ??The changes decreased the weight of boat by 200 lbs while the displacement remained the same. ??My son, wife, a diving friend and I took the boat to Canyon Lake in Texas this Sunday.? Visibility was less than 5 ft so could not see much.? My main interest at this point was just to get into water.? After launching the boat, I did some testing to get the base line ballast both mid-ship and in the stern correct so that I could get neutral and trim after flooding the MBT.? After establishing the fixed ballast, I took the boat out to test how the horizontal thrusters work for surface maneuvering. ??I was very happy with way the horizontal thrusters performed. Surface maneuverability was excellent and these motors are supper quite.? I did find that you could cavitate the props on the surface if you hit it with too much power. As before the changes, when you get up to about 4 knots, the bow wave obscures the pilots vision. ??Breaking is much improved and it is now possible to rotate on the surface or in the water column.?I then took the boat out for the first submerged maneuvering.? The vertical thrusters were very effective for depth control, pitch and roll control. ?I found that it was much easier to get to specific depth and hold this depth using the vertical thrusters than the old way I did it with the VBT.? They worked great.? While removing the VBT simplified dive operations, it did result in loss of freeboard of about 1 inch.? This is a downside of removing the VBT as the freeboard was already quite low.? I just have to be careful when opening the hatch.? I opened and closed that hatch throughout the day and only took splash one time when a boat came by I did not see.?The new Garmin AIRMAR DST800 Smart Sensor worked great. With visibility less than 5 ft, being able to know the altitude was very helpful on dives. As usual, it got darker as you descend but knowing when the bottom was coming up was nice.? ?On the negative side, during the last dive of the day, the vertical thrusters failed while my son was on bottom in about 27 ft of water.? He had to surface using the MBT. Why these thrusters failed is a mystery. ?It was at the end of the day and I had pushed the batteries pretty hard all day along but we still had plenty of battery voltage.?? My sons second attempt to surface was to put some air in the forward MBT to lift the nose and then use the aft horizontal thrusters to power to the surface.? This failed as aft horizontal thrusters were not responsive.? After surfacing with the MBT, we discovered that tree limb about 1.5? diameter had lodged in the starboard horizontal thruster between the prop and the Kort nozzle.? This explains why we lost horizontal thrust but not vertical.? After getting the boat back on the trailer, I tested the vertical thrusters.? They would barely turn even when giving them full power.? My first guess was that the air pressure compensation system failed and the thrusters were full of water.? When I got the boat back to my workshop, I disassembled both vertical thrusters and discovered they were dry. After recharging the boat, I tried the vertical thrusters again and got the same slow speed operation.? After turning them off and on for about five minutes, the starboard vertical thruster stared working correctly.? I kept switching the port vertical thruster off and on and all of a sudden, it began working correctly.? When I had the motors apart, I put a multimeter on the wires going to the brushes and found it showing 35VDC.? At this point the control signal to these motors was 2.5V so voltage to the motors should have been zero.?? My guess is that the MK motor controller is acting up.? But it is strange that both the vertical controllers would fail.? Also, if it were? bad motor controllers, then why did they both start working again.? This is still a head stumper for me.??Also towards the end of the day, the OTS underwater communication stared acting up.? Base and standby diver using an OTS Guardian full face mask could hear underwater transmissions from me but I could not receive either from the diver or from the base.? The underwater commns had been working great for the previous 7 hours.? ?I was also having trouble about this time with the VHF radio that Alec gave me.? Again I could not receive.? When I get a chance I am going to see if the connection to the antenna got disconnected.?One of the nice new features of the new HMI besides being larger and having a higher resolution, was it has built in data logging.? So after the dive it was very nice to be able to download into Excel about 50 variables logged at a one minute interval. I was able to plot these and get a detailed picture of how all the ship systems were working during the day.?If anyone has any thoughts on why the vertical MK 101 thruster motors failed, or have had any negative experience with the MK101 motor controllers, I would love to hear them.? When they are working, they are great.?All in all, I was very happy with the changes but have a few kinks to work out before I take her out again.? Now if I could just find some clear water to dive in, I would be a happy camper! ?Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 7 11:12:58 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 15:12:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] carbon fiber pressure vessel Message-ID: <1592060425.2766681.1441638778068.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> There are some pretty amazing carbon fibre ?pressure vessels out there. ? Has anyone looked at a carbon fibre sphere as an occupant sphere.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 7 16:28:38 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 20:28:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] carbon fiber pressure vessel In-Reply-To: <1592060425.2766681.1441638778068.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1592060425.2766681.1441638778068.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <347609701.2687622.1441657718591.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Hank,I looked at carbon fibre a number of years ago. At the time I found that there were other fiberglass / resincombinations that were just as strong under compression. I think epoxy / e-glass?is one I looked at.?If you found a commercially made vessel similar to the shape of a sub, you would still have to makethrough hulls & holes for view ports that would need reinforcing. So you would need to add additionalthickness to the original structure & hope your addition bonded well. Some resins rely on chemical bonding,so any reinforcements would need to be done at the same time as the hull was layed up.Graham hawk made a fiberglass sub (I think carbon fiber) it was a pretty complex proceedure.I remember Phil saying he made something in fiberglass, possibly a Newt suit, & that it cost 5x as much tomake than if it were done in metal.Additionally it would be hard for an amateur to analize for strength. The direction of the weave & proportionof resin to cloth making a differance.Alan? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2015 3:12 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] carbon fiber pressure vessel There are some pretty amazing carbon fibre ?pressure vessels out there. ? Has anyone looked at a carbon fibre sphere as an occupant sphere.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 7 16:40:04 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 20:40:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] carbon fiber pressure vessel In-Reply-To: <347609701.2687622.1441657718591.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <347609701.2687622.1441657718591.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <694009131.2886490.1441658404147.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Yes have been reading today and it is tricky alright. Not for the do it yourself ?guy! ?Hank On Monday, September 7, 2015 2:28 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank,I looked at carbon fibre a number of years ago. At the time I found that there were other fiberglass / resincombinations that were just as strong under compression. I think epoxy / e-glass?is one I looked at.?If you found a commercially made vessel similar to the shape of a sub, you would still have to makethrough hulls & holes for view ports that would need reinforcing. So you would need to add additionalthickness to the original structure & hope your addition bonded well. Some resins rely on chemical bonding,so any reinforcements would need to be done at the same time as the hull was layed up.Graham hawk made a fiberglass sub (I think carbon fiber) it was a pretty complex proceedure.I remember Phil saying he made something in fiberglass, possibly a Newt suit, & that it cost 5x as much tomake than if it were done in metal.Additionally it would be hard for an amateur to analize for strength. The direction of the weave & proportionof resin to cloth making a differance.Alan? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2015 3:12 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] carbon fiber pressure vessel There are some pretty amazing carbon fibre ?pressure vessels out there. ? Has anyone looked at a carbon fibre sphere as an occupant sphere.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 7 16:44:17 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 20:44:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod update Message-ID: <2125496158.2903386.1441658657848.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> This weekend I managed to get my escape pod welded together, took me 8hr to weld it up. ? I just need to make the hatch and I can pressure test it. ?I want to do that before it snows and the roads get bad. ?I can borrow the hatch off Gamma if need be. ?Smart engineer (me) made the escape pod hatch the same size as Gamma's hatch :-)Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 7 17:24:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 09:24:00 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod update In-Reply-To: <2125496158.2903386.1441658657848.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2125496158.2903386.1441658657848.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55ee0047.c76c460a.75e3.24dd@mx.google.com> Hank, where are you putting this escape pod. I am intrigued as to how you will incorporate it. Couldn?t see it on your project page. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 8 September 2015 8:44 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod update This weekend I managed to get my escape pod welded together, took me 8hr to weld it up. I just need to make the hatch and I can pressure test it. I want to do that before it snows and the roads get bad. I can borrow the hatch off Gamma if need be. Smart engineer (me) made the escape pod hatch the same size as Gamma's hatch :-) Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 7 17:29:23 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 21:29:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod update In-Reply-To: <55ee0047.c76c460a.75e3.24dd@mx.google.com> References: <55ee0047.c76c460a.75e3.24dd@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1906549112.2917378.1441661363554.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Hugh,I am removing my rear ballast tank and motor drive and mounting the escape pod to the rear of the pressure hull. ?I am adding two new ballast tanks to the rear of the sub that will match the front?ballast tanks. ?I have purchased tow Perry thrusters from Steve and will mount them under the from ballast tanks on jettisoning mounts. ?I have a few youtube video's of the pod and mounting ring.Hank On Monday, September 7, 2015 3:23 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv2797028002 #yiv2797028002 -- _filtered #yiv2797028002 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2797028002 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2797028002 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2797028002 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv2797028002 #yiv2797028002 p.yiv2797028002MsoNormal, #yiv2797028002 li.yiv2797028002MsoNormal, #yiv2797028002 div.yiv2797028002MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv2797028002 a:link, #yiv2797028002 span.yiv2797028002MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2797028002 a:visited, #yiv2797028002 span.yiv2797028002MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2797028002 span.yiv2797028002EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv2797028002 .yiv2797028002MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv2797028002 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv2797028002 div.yiv2797028002WordSection1 {}#yiv2797028002 Hank, where are you putting this escape pod.? I am intrigued as to how you will incorporate it.? Couldn?t see it on your project page.Hugh ? ? ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 8 September 2015 8:44 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod update ?This weekend I managed to get my escape pod welded together, took me 8hr to weld it up. ? I just need to make the hatch and I can pressure test it. ?I want to do that before it snows and the roads get bad. ?I can borrow the hatch off Gamma if need be. ?Smart engineer (me) made the escape pod hatch the same size as Gamma's hatch :-)Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 7 21:05:35 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 21:05:35 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod update In-Reply-To: <2125496158.2903386.1441658657848.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2125496158.2903386.1441658657848.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <157FF90A-2B29-4C4E-90C8-F6C451EB3A5D@gmail.com> So Hank... Is there a way you could incorporate the sphere such that it doubled as a diver lockout? Best, Alec > On Sep 7, 2015, at 4:44 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > This weekend I managed to get my escape pod welded together, took me 8hr to weld it up. I just need to make the hatch and I can pressure test it. I want to do that before it snows and the roads get bad. I can borrow the hatch off Gamma if need be. Smart engineer (me) made the escape pod hatch the same size as Gamma's hatch :-) > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 7 22:09:16 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 02:09:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod update In-Reply-To: <157FF90A-2B29-4C4E-90C8-F6C451EB3A5D@gmail.com> References: <157FF90A-2B29-4C4E-90C8-F6C451EB3A5D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1485309689.3005593.1441678156867.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,Hmmm, That I never considered, I did consider making the escape pod a stand alone sub that could be used?separately. ?I could use Gamma with a back window or with a pod. ?Interesting idea indeed. ?I could, if I had in internal hatch in the pod, not sure there is enough room to open it though. ?Hank On Monday, September 7, 2015 7:05 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: So Hank... Is there a way you could incorporate the sphere such that it doubled as a diver lockout? Best, Alec On Sep 7, 2015, at 4:44 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: This weekend I managed to get my escape pod welded together, took me 8hr to weld it up. ? I just need to make the hatch and I can pressure test it. ?I want to do that before it snows and the roads get bad. ?I can borrow the hatch off Gamma if need be. ?Smart engineer (me) made the escape pod hatch the same size as Gamma's hatch :-)Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 7 22:32:33 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 22:32:33 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod update In-Reply-To: <1485309689.3005593.1441678156867.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <157FF90A-2B29-4C4E-90C8-F6C451EB3A5D@gmail.com> <1485309689.3005593.1441678156867.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: My guess, and I haven't done any calcs whatsoever, is that in a PSUB sized boat you would find the necessary volume of compressed air to be prohibitively large. Second question... Since your sub is a two person, can you get two people into the sphere? > On Sep 7, 2015, at 10:09 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alec, > Hmmm, That I never considered, I did consider making the escape pod a stand alone sub that could be used separately. I could use Gamma with a back window or with a pod. Interesting idea indeed. I could, if I had in internal hatch in the pod, not sure there is enough room to open it though. > Hank > > > > On Monday, September 7, 2015 7:05 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > So Hank... Is there a way you could incorporate the sphere such that it doubled as a diver lockout? > > Best, > > Alec > > > >> On Sep 7, 2015, at 4:44 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> This weekend I managed to get my escape pod welded together, took me 8hr to weld it up. I just need to make the hatch and I can pressure test it. I want to do that before it snows and the roads get bad. I can borrow the hatch off Gamma if need be. Smart engineer (me) made the escape pod hatch the same size as Gamma's hatch :-) >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 8 02:03:32 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 23:03:32 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] carbon fiber pressure vessel Message-ID: <20150907230332.A84FCA89@m0005296.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 8 02:07:05 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 23:07:05 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod update Message-ID: <20150907230705.A84FCA73@m0005296.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 8 04:41:07 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 20:41:07 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod update In-Reply-To: <20150907230705.A84FCA73@m0005296.ppops.net> References: <20150907230705.A84FCA73@m0005296.ppops.net> Message-ID: <70F286D2-1D9D-415C-AB5D-E3F94BC41B6E@yahoo.com> Brian, sounds like you should do a house swap for a few weeks. I can't recall the pod Phil was talking about. I know he has posted some long emails on the escape subject & had come up with some of his own designs. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 8/09/2015, at 6:07 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, I wish I could see some snow ! This week it's suppose to get up to 104 F / 40C here in Ojai - my welder has abandon me ! > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod update > Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 20:44:17 +0000 (UTC) > > This weekend I managed to get my escape pod welded together, took me 8hr to weld it up. I just need to make the hatch and I can pressure test it. I want to do that before it snows and the roads get bad. I can borrow the hatch off Gamma if need be. Smart engineer (me) made the escape pod hatch the same size as Gamma's hatch :-) > Hank > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 8 07:34:20 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 11:34:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod update In-Reply-To: <70F286D2-1D9D-415C-AB5D-E3F94BC41B6E@yahoo.com> References: <70F286D2-1D9D-415C-AB5D-E3F94BC41B6E@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <933349338.3161908.1441712060569.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I have not tried to fit a second person in the pod. ?I am pretty sure that my step daughter and I can get in it. ?Maybe not with our emersion suits on.I am sure your right about the air supply, plus the pod is to small for a diver with tanks etc. ? Brian,Snow is coming down the mountains here already.Hank On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 2:50 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian,sounds like you should do a house swap for a few weeks.I can't recall the pod Phil was talking about. I know he has posted some longemails on the escape subject & had come up with some of his own designs.Alan Sent from my iPad On 8/09/2015, at 6:07 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,??? I wish I could see some snow !? This week it's suppose to get up to 104 F / 40C? here in Ojai - my welder has abandon me !?? ?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod update Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 20:44:17 +0000 (UTC) This weekend I managed to get my escape pod welded together, took me 8hr to weld it up. ? I just need to make the hatch and I can pressure test it. ?I want to do that before it snows and the roads get bad. ?I can borrow the hatch off Gamma if need be. ?Smart engineer (me) made the escape pod hatch the same size as Gamma's hatch :-)Hank_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 8 20:45:20 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 00:45:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] carbon fiber pressure vessel In-Reply-To: <20150907230332.A84FCA89@m0005296.ppops.net> References: <20150907230332.A84FCA89@m0005296.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1116798888.62160.1441759520137.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,I could see a collapsible ?escape pod working, I would think ?more telescopic than collapsible, kina like a hydraulic hoist cylinder on a dump truck.Hank On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 12:03 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,??????????? Do you remember Phil talking about that super strong collapsible navy escape pod ?? He was pretty vague about it , I'd sure like to know more about that thing !?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] carbon fiber pressure vessel Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 20:28:38 +0000 (UTC) Hi Hank,I looked at carbon fibre a number of years ago. At the time I found that there were other fiberglass / resincombinations that were just as strong under compression. I think epoxy / e-glass?is one I looked at.?If you found a commercially made vessel similar to the shape of a sub, you would still have to makethrough hulls & holes for view ports that would need reinforcing. So you would need to add additionalthickness to the original structure & hope your addition bonded well. Some resins rely on chemical bonding,so any reinforcements would need to be done at the same time as the hull was layed up.Graham hawk made a fiberglass sub (I think carbon fiber) it was a pretty complex proceedure.I remember Phil saying he made something in fiberglass, possibly a Newt suit, & that it cost 5x as much tomake than if it were done in metal.Additionally it would be hard for an amateur to analize for strength. The direction of the weave & proportionof resin to cloth making a differance.Alan? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2015 3:12 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] carbon fiber pressure vessel There are some pretty amazing carbon fibre ?pressure vessels out there. ? Has anyone looked at a carbon fibre sphere as an occupant sphere.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 00:27:20 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 00:27:20 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ballast tanks pic #2 Message-ID: <13a722.5fee65e1.43210f28@aol.com> Scott Cassell's tanks -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DSC_0163.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 41219 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 00:34:30 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 00:34:30 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Free K-250 ballast tanks Message-ID: <13a9fa.3697aeb0.432110d6@aol.com> Hi All, I'm forwarding Scott Cassell's offer of some free K-250 ballast tanks. They are located in Napa, California. Email address is _scottcassell at live.com_ (mailto:scottcassell at live.com) . Scroll down for first pic and Scott's email to me. Another pic will follow shortly. Jim ____________________________________ From: scottcassell at live.com To: jimtoddpsub at aol.com Sent: 9/8/2015 7:42:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time Subj: K-250 Ballast Tanks - Free Hi Jim, We have the original K-250 Ballast Tanks from our sub before her refit and would like to give them for free to anyone that can use them (for Free, just pay shipping). Can you please let the PSUBS gang know about this? It would be a shame to toss these in the dump when they can be used. I think I can hold my fiancee off for a week but after that... they are compost... Attached are pics. Thanks! Scott Cassell CEO & Founder Undersea Voyager Project rECOn Missions www.underseavoyagerproject.org "That Others May Live" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DSC_0159.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 37726 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 01:00:25 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 22:00:25 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] carbon fiber pressure vessel Message-ID: <20150908220025.ADE3A4CB@m0005296.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 05:35:40 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 10:35:40 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... Message-ID: Hi All, Has anyone towed a K boat from the forward lifting eye? I am going to tow my boat to a better diving location. I think the best place to tow it would be the very front, on the hand rail mounting post. At this point there is a 20mm stainless bar bolted through the forward tank and into the framework. Although its a thick bar, I have a feeling it might get damaged if I tow the boat from that point. Forward lifting eye would be better but ive got a feeling it might now tow very well. Any thoughts? Thanks James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: tow.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 22664 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 07:23:41 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 11:23:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1840476298.277339.1441797821825.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi James,I think you need to tow from the front leading edge to avoid crabbing.Hank On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 3:36 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,?Has anyone towed a K boat from the forward lifting eye?? I am going to tow my boat to a better diving location.? I think the best place to tow it would be the very front, on the hand rail mounting post.? At this point there is a 20mm stainless bar bolted through the forward tank and into the framework.? Although its a thick bar, I have a feeling it might get damaged if I tow the boat from that point.? Forward lifting eye would be better but ive got a feeling it might now tow very well. Any thoughts? ThanksJames? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 09:20:36 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 14:20:36 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... In-Reply-To: <1840476298.277339.1441797821825.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1840476298.277339.1441797821825.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: That's what I was thinking. However, there is a video of someone towing Bionic Guppy and they are pulling it from the lifting eye. Different boat though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApUnGjTb4DQ On 9 September 2015 at 12:23, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi James, > I think you need to tow from the front leading edge to avoid crabbing. > Hank > > > > On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 3:36 AM, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi All, > > Has anyone towed a K boat from the forward lifting eye? > > I am going to tow my boat to a better diving location. I think the best > place to tow it would be the very front, on the hand rail mounting post. > At this point there is a 20mm stainless bar bolted through the forward tank > and into the framework. Although its a thick bar, I have a feeling it > might get damaged if I tow the boat from that point. Forward lifting eye > would be better but ive got a feeling it might now tow very well. > > Any thoughts? > Thanks > James > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 10:58:48 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2015 07:58:48 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm not that familiar with the K boats, but my first impression is that for maximum stability you would want to tow it from a forward point near the center of surge resistance, with sufficient scope in the tow line to lead horizontally forward, much like a sonar tow fish. Sean On September 9, 2015 2:35:40 AM PDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi All, > >Has anyone towed a K boat from the forward lifting eye? > >I am going to tow my boat to a better diving location. I think the >best >place to tow it would be the very front, on the hand rail mounting >post. >At this point there is a 20mm stainless bar bolted through the forward >tank >and into the framework. Although its a thick bar, I have a feeling it >might get damaged if I tow the boat from that point. Forward lifting >eye >would be better but ive got a feeling it might now tow very well. > >Any thoughts? >Thanks >James > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 11:24:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 16:24:49 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think its going to have to be the non-technical "just try it and see" method. I might even try towing it backwards as I have a nearly completely enclosed aft fairing, although this may be worse and be like trying to tow a bucket. We'll see. Regards James On 9 September 2015 at 15:58, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I'm not that familiar with the K boats, but my first impression is that > for maximum stability you would want to tow it from a forward point near > the center of surge resistance, with sufficient scope in the tow line to > lead horizontally forward, much like a sonar tow fish. > > Sean > > > On September 9, 2015 2:35:40 AM PDT, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> Has anyone towed a K boat from the forward lifting eye? >> >> I am going to tow my boat to a better diving location. I think the best >> place to tow it would be the very front, on the hand rail mounting post. >> At this point there is a 20mm stainless bar bolted through the forward tank >> and into the framework. Although its a thick bar, I have a feeling it >> might get damaged if I tow the boat from that point. Forward lifting eye >> would be better but ive got a feeling it might now tow very well. >> >> Any thoughts? >> Thanks >> James >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 11:29:04 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 11:29:04 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <14fb2b97cc4-1d83-260d4@webprd-a44.mail.aol.com> We found the best way was a three-legged towing bridle with the short leg leading to the forward central tow point and the other two (slightly longer) attached outboard on the battery pods. It doesn't have to be too long overall. Maybe 3-5 meters overall. If you are standing in the garage doing the rigging, then the central lift point would be in line with your tow rope, and the down lines extending at an angle to the pods. The lower ropes tend to snub up when the sub tries to plunge while underway, helping to keep things more or less even with the surface. They also serve to resist the crabbing that Hank mentioned, which is an issue, especially at slow speeds or in any kind of following sea. Use dacron braid, rather than nylon. The sub will pogo on nylon rope, and make a rat's nest out of poly. Also, slide two or three nokalon buoys onto your tow rope back at the shackle. That will help to keep the hardware from sinking the bridle every time there is any slack, which is more often than you might think. And remember the lower lines. If they get slack and aren't watched sharply, they will wrap around just about anything and everything that might tear off. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2015 10:59 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... I'm not that familiar with the K boats, but my first impression is that for maximum stability you would want to tow it from a forward point near the center of surge resistance, with sufficient scope in the tow line to lead horizontally forward, much like a sonar tow fish. Sean On September 9, 2015 2:35:40 AM PDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, Has anyone towed a K boat from the forward lifting eye? I am going to tow my boat to a better diving location. I think the best place to tow it would be the very front, on the hand rail mounting post. At this point there is a 20mm stainless bar bolted through the forward tank and into the framework. Although its a thick bar, I have a feeling it might get damaged if I tow the boat from that point. Forward lifting eye would be better but ive got a feeling it might now tow very well. Any thoughts? Thanks James Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 11:30:06 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 11:30:06 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <14fb2ba6cbe-1d83-260e9@webprd-a44.mail.aol.com> Backwards might not be too bad. Every Pisces ever build was towed backwards, for instance. Worked like a champ. Vance -----Original Message----- From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2015 11:25 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... I think its going to have to be the non-technical "just try it and see" method. I might even try towing it backwards as I have a nearly completely enclosed aft fairing, although this may be worse and be like trying to tow a bucket. We'll see. Regards James On 9 September 2015 at 15:58, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I'm not that familiar with the K boats, but my first impression is that for maximum stability you would want to tow it from a forward point near the center of surge resistance, with sufficient scope in the tow line to lead horizontally forward, much like a sonar tow fish. Sean On September 9, 2015 2:35:40 AM PDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi All, Has anyone towed a K boat from the forward lifting eye? I am going to tow my boat to a better diving location. I think the best place to tow it would be the very front, on the hand rail mounting post. At this point there is a 20mm stainless bar bolted through the forward tank and into the framework. Although its a thick bar, I have a feeling it might get damaged if I tow the boat from that point. Forward lifting eye would be better but ive got a feeling it might now tow very well. Any thoughts? Thanks James Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 11:38:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 11:38:54 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <14fb2c27ab5-1d83-26183@webprd-a44.mail.aol.com> The force applied that high and that close to the center of gravity will make her dive and squirm. Pull hard enough, she'll crab out to one side and roll toward the boat. It will be hard not to spill your tea. Vance -----Original Message----- From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2015 9:21 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... That's what I was thinking. However, there is a video of someone towing Bionic Guppy and they are pulling it from the lifting eye. Different boat though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApUnGjTb4DQ On 9 September 2015 at 12:23, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi James, I think you need to tow from the front leading edge to avoid crabbing. Hank On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 3:36 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, Has anyone towed a K boat from the forward lifting eye? I am going to tow my boat to a better diving location. I think the best place to tow it would be the very front, on the hand rail mounting post. At this point there is a 20mm stainless bar bolted through the forward tank and into the framework. Although its a thick bar, I have a feeling it might get damaged if I tow the boat from that point. Forward lifting eye would be better but ive got a feeling it might now tow very well. Any thoughts? Thanks James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 12:03:33 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 17:03:33 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... In-Reply-To: <14fb2c27ab5-1d83-26183@webprd-a44.mail.aol.com> References: <14fb2c27ab5-1d83-26183@webprd-a44.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: Thanks Vance, I did think of maybe towing from the battery pods. Maybe i'll weld on a couple of towing eyes. Something else I should have thought of before..... will check out options later. regards James On 9 September 2015 at 16:38, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > The force applied that high and that close to the center of gravity will > make her dive and squirm. Pull hard enough, she'll crab out to one side and > roll toward the boat. It will be hard not to spill your tea. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2015 9:21 am > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... > > That's what I was thinking. However, there is a video of someone towing > Bionic Guppy and they are pulling it from the lifting eye. Different boat > though. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApUnGjTb4DQ > > On 9 September 2015 at 12:23, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi James, >> I think you need to tow from the front leading edge to avoid crabbing. >> Hank >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 3:36 AM, James Frankland via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi All, >> >> Has anyone towed a K boat from the forward lifting eye? >> >> I am going to tow my boat to a better diving location. I think the best >> place to tow it would be the very front, on the hand rail mounting post. >> At this point there is a 20mm stainless bar bolted through the forward tank >> and into the framework. Although its a thick bar, I have a feeling it >> might get damaged if I tow the boat from that point. Forward lifting eye >> would be better but ive got a feeling it might now tow very well. >> >> Any thoughts? >> Thanks >> James >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 13:02:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 13:02:51 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <14fb30f5925-6f20-26810@webprd-m64.mail.aol.com> If you pick up those three towing points so that everything pulls evenly in calm water, it will go a long way toward keeping things stable when things start pushing and pulling in different directions. Vance -----Original Message----- From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2015 12:04 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... Thanks Vance, I did think of maybe towing from the battery pods. Maybe i'll weld on a couple of towing eyes. Something else I should have thought of before..... will check out options later. regards James On 9 September 2015 at 16:38, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: The force applied that high and that close to the center of gravity will make her dive and squirm. Pull hard enough, she'll crab out to one side and roll toward the boat. It will be hard not to spill your tea. Vance -----Original Message----- From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2015 9:21 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... That's what I was thinking. However, there is a video of someone towing Bionic Guppy and they are pulling it from the lifting eye. Different boat though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApUnGjTb4DQ On 9 September 2015 at 12:23, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi James, I think you need to tow from the front leading edge to avoid crabbing. Hank On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 3:36 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, Has anyone towed a K boat from the forward lifting eye? I am going to tow my boat to a better diving location. I think the best place to tow it would be the very front, on the hand rail mounting post. At this point there is a 20mm stainless bar bolted through the forward tank and into the framework. Although its a thick bar, I have a feeling it might get damaged if I tow the boat from that point. Forward lifting eye would be better but ive got a feeling it might now tow very well. Any thoughts? Thanks James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 14:09:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 11:09:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... In-Reply-To: <14fb30f5925-6f20-26810@webprd-m64.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <1441822182.80279.YahooMailMobile@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> The Bionic Guppy is pretty long and heavy though. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 14:35:38 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 14:35:38 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... Message-ID: James, Before you weld towing eyes on the front of your battery pods, you might try making some circular clamps to go around the front of each pod and attach towing eyes to those. That way you could test the concept first and possibly refine it. Jim In a message dated 9/9/2015 1:10:29 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: The Bionic Guppy is pretty long and heavy though. Hank ____________________________________ From: via Personal_Submersibles ; To: ; Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2015 5:02:51 PM If you pick up those three towing points so that everything pulls evenly in calm water, it will go a long way toward keeping things stable when things start pushing and pulling in different directions. Vance -----Original Message----- From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2015 12:04 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... Thanks Vance, I did think of maybe towing from the battery pods. Maybe i'll weld on a couple of towing eyes. Something else I should have thought of before..... will check out options later. regards James On 9 September 2015 at 16:38, via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (javascript:return) > wrote: The force applied that high and that close to the center of gravity will make her dive and squirm. Pull hard enough, she'll crab out to one side and roll toward the boat. It will be hard not to spill your tea. Vance -----Original Message----- From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (javascript:return) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (javascript:return) > Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2015 9:21 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... That's what I was thinking. However, there is a video of someone towing Bionic Guppy and they are pulling it from the lifting eye. Different boat though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApUnGjTb4DQ On 9 September 2015 at 12:23, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (javascript:return) > wrote: Hi James, I think you need to tow from the front leading edge to avoid crabbing. Hank On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 3:36 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (javascript:return) > wrote: Hi All, Has anyone towed a K boat from the forward lifting eye? I am going to tow my boat to a better diving location. I think the best place to tow it would be the very front, on the hand rail mounting post. At this point there is a 20mm stainless bar bolted through the forward tank and into the framework. Although its a thick bar, I have a feeling it might get damaged if I tow the boat from that point. Forward lifting eye would be better but ive got a feeling it might now tow very well. Any thoughts? Thanks James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (javascript:return) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (javascript:return) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (javascript:return) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (javascript:return) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (javascript:return) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 16:34:04 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 20:34:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <915862494.34323.1441830844268.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Vance,what about towing from a low point at the front?One of my thoughts was to have a low frontal tow point with a short lengthof rope from it with a clip on the end. This is clipped on to a higher point on the subwhen not in use & clipped on to the towing rope when needed. This is so that you don't get wet?trying to attach to a point below the water line.Alan From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2015 6:35 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... James,Before you weld towing eyes on the front of your battery pods, you might try making some circular clamps to go around the front of each pod and attach towing eyes to those.? That way you could test the concept first and possibly refine it.Jim?In a message dated 9/9/2015 1:10:29 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: | The Bionic Guppy is pretty long and heavy though. Hank | From: via Personal_Submersibles ; To: ; Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2015 5:02:51 PM | If you pick up those three towing points so that everything pulls evenly in calm water, it will go a long way toward keeping things stable when things start pushing and pulling in different directions.? Vance -----Original Message----- From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2015 12:04 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... Thanks Vance, I did think of maybe towing from the battery pods.? Maybe i'll weld on a couple of towing eyes.? Something else I should have thought of before..... will check out options later. regards James On 9 September 2015 at 16:38, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: The force applied that high and that close to the center of gravity will make her dive and squirm. Pull hard enough, she'll crab out to one side and roll toward the boat. It will be hard not to spill your tea. Vance -----Original Message----- From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2015 9:21 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... That's what I was thinking.? However, there is a video of someone towing Bionic Guppy and they are pulling it from the lifting eye.? Different boat though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApUnGjTb4DQ On 9 September 2015 at 12:23, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi James, I think you need to tow from the front leading edge to avoid crabbing. Hank On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 3:36 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, Has anyone towed a K boat from the forward lifting eye?? I am going to tow my boat to a better diving location.? I think the best place to tow it would be the very front, on the hand rail mounting post.? At this point there is a 20mm stainless bar bolted through the forward tank and into the framework.? Although its a thick bar, I have a feeling it might get damaged if I tow the boat from that point.? Forward lifting eye would be better but ive got a feeling it might now tow very well. Any thoughts? Thanks James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 17:08:08 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 17:08:08 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... In-Reply-To: <915862494.34323.1441830844268.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <14fb3efe8da-658f-27e34@webprd-m79.mail.aol.com> Sure, why not? It would still help to snub the bow in a straight line. And for dives, the harness could be lashed short to that forward lift point, maybe, and left in place during a dive. We used to do that with the lift rig on Aquarius, which was two big nylon straps and a welded metal hoop. Just stuffed it down into the sail beside the conning tower and went on about out business. And try some different speeds for towing. Most people tow too slow, making the sub hunt back and forth, never finding a true course. It might be worth a few minutes, just to find that best speed. NOTE: By the way, the best speed (if the MBTs aren't spewing air) is just about half a mile an hour more than you think it is. The sub will be closer to underwater than not, kicking up quite a wake to make you nervous, and somewhere in there it seems to stabilize and come merrily along just like it knew what it was doing. The Nektons towed at 10 knots, remember. Not Gamma anymore, sadly, but the idea is sound. Their tow point was just under the nose of the forward ballast tank (below the centerline of the hull by a few inches--just in case that gives you an idea). Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2015 4:39 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... Vance, what about towing from a low point at the front? One of my thoughts was to have a low frontal tow point with a short length of rope from it with a clip on the end. This is clipped on to a higher point on the sub when not in use & clipped on to the towing rope when needed. This is so that you don't get wet trying to attach to a point below the water line. Alan From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2015 6:35 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... James, Before you weld towing eyes on the front of your battery pods, you might try making some circular clamps to go around the front of each pod and attach towing eyes to those. That way you could test the concept first and possibly refine it. Jim In a message dated 9/9/2015 1:10:29 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: The Bionic Guppy is pretty long and heavy though. Hank From: via Personal_Submersibles ; To: ; Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2015 5:02:51 PM If you pick up those three towing points so that everything pulls evenly in calm water, it will go a long way toward keeping things stable when things start pushing and pulling in different directions. Vance -----Original Message----- From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2015 12:04 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... Thanks Vance, I did think of maybe towing from the battery pods. Maybe i'll weld on a couple of towing eyes. Something else I should have thought of before..... will check out options later. regards James On 9 September 2015 at 16:38, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: The force applied that high and that close to the center of gravity will make her dive and squirm. Pull hard enough, she'll crab out to one side and roll toward the boat. It will be hard not to spill your tea. Vance -----Original Message----- From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2015 9:21 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... That's what I was thinking. However, there is a video of someone towing Bionic Guppy and they are pulling it from the lifting eye. Different boat though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApUnGjTb4DQ On 9 September 2015 at 12:23, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi James, I think you need to tow from the front leading edge to avoid crabbing. Hank On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 3:36 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, Has anyone towed a K boat from the forward lifting eye? I am going to tow my boat to a better diving location. I think the best place to tow it would be the very front, on the hand rail mounting post. At this point there is a 20mm stainless bar bolted through the forward tank and into the framework. Although its a thick bar, I have a feeling it might get damaged if I tow the boat from that point. Forward lifting eye would be better but ive got a feeling it might now tow very well. Any thoughts? Thanks James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 17:34:09 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 09:34:09 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... In-Reply-To: <915862494.34323.1441830844268.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <915862494.34323.1441830844268.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55f0a5d1.0158440a.a3170.54dd@mx.google.com> I would stick very closely to what Vance has said. Very closely. If you tow from only the battery pods with a bridle then it can roll the sub. The shorter high rope prevents this. You need to pull from low to stop the nose diving but when it veers off to the side from slowing or wave action you need the top rope as well. Pulling from only the top limits you to about 3 knots unless it is towed from high up on the tow vessel. My penny?s worth. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 10 September 2015 8:34 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... Vance, what about towing from a low point at the front? One of my thoughts was to have a low frontal tow point with a short length of rope from it with a clip on the end. This is clipped on to a higher point on the sub when not in use & clipped on to the towing rope when needed. This is so that you don't get wet trying to attach to a point below the water line. Alan _____ From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2015 6:35 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... James, Before you weld towing eyes on the front of your battery pods, you might try making some circular clamps to go around the front of each pod and attach towing eyes to those. That way you could test the concept first and possibly refine it. Jim In a message dated 9/9/2015 1:10:29 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: The Bionic Guppy is pretty long and heavy though. Hank _____ From: via Personal_Submersibles ; To: ; Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2015 5:02:51 PM If you pick up those three towing points so that everything pulls evenly in calm water, it will go a long way toward keeping things stable when things start pushing and pulling in different directions. Vance -----Original Message----- From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2015 12:04 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... Thanks Vance, I did think of maybe towing from the battery pods. Maybe i'll weld on a couple of towing eyes. Something else I should have thought of before..... will check out options later. regards James On 9 September 2015 at 16:38, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: The force applied that high and that close to the center of gravity will make her dive and squirm. Pull hard enough, she'll crab out to one side and roll toward the boat. It will be hard not to spill your tea. Vance -----Original Message----- From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2015 9:21 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... That's what I was thinking. However, there is a video of someone towing Bionic Guppy and they are pulling it from the lifting eye. Different boat though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApUnGjTb4DQ On 9 September 2015 at 12:23, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi James, I think you need to tow from the front leading edge to avoid crabbing. Hank On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 3:36 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, Has anyone towed a K boat from the forward lifting eye? I am going to tow my boat to a better diving location. I think the best place to tow it would be the very front, on the hand rail mounting post. At this point there is a 20mm stainless bar bolted through the forward tank and into the framework. Although its a thick bar, I have a feeling it might get damaged if I tow the boat from that point. Forward lifting eye would be better but ive got a feeling it might now tow very well. Any thoughts? Thanks James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 17:49:31 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 21:49:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... In-Reply-To: <55f0a5d1.0158440a.a3170.54dd@mx.google.com> References: <915862494.34323.1441830844268.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55f0a5d1.0158440a.a3170.54dd@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1422658696.68228.1441835371141.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Vance & Hugh, very helpful.Alan From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2015 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... #yiv3131261280 #yiv3131261280 -- _filtered #yiv3131261280 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3131261280 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3131261280 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3131261280 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3131261280 {font-family:Consolas;panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv3131261280 #yiv3131261280 p.yiv3131261280MsoNormal, #yiv3131261280 li.yiv3131261280MsoNormal, #yiv3131261280 div.yiv3131261280MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv3131261280 a:link, #yiv3131261280 span.yiv3131261280MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3131261280 a:visited, #yiv3131261280 span.yiv3131261280MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3131261280 pre {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv3131261280 tt {}#yiv3131261280 p.yiv3131261280MsoAcetate, #yiv3131261280 li.yiv3131261280MsoAcetate, #yiv3131261280 div.yiv3131261280MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv3131261280 span.yiv3131261280HTMLPreformattedChar {}#yiv3131261280 span.yiv3131261280EmailStyle20 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv3131261280 span.yiv3131261280BalloonTextChar {}#yiv3131261280 .yiv3131261280MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv3131261280 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv3131261280 div.yiv3131261280WordSection1 {}#yiv3131261280 I would stick very closely to what Vance has said. Very closely.If you tow from only the battery pods with a bridle then it can roll the sub.? The shorter high rope prevents this.You need to pull from low to stop the nose diving but when it veers off to the side from slowing or wave action you need the top rope as well.Pulling from only the top limits you to about 3 knots unless it is towed from high up on the tow vessel.? My penny?s worth.? Hugh ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 10 September 2015 8:34 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... ?Vance,what about towing from a low point at the front?One of my thoughts was to have a low frontal tow point with a short lengthof rope from it with a clip on the end. This is clipped on to a higher point on the subwhen not in use & clipped on to the towing rope when needed. This is so that you don't get wet?trying to attach to a point below the water line.Alan ?From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2015 6:35 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... ?James,Before you weld towing eyes on the front of your battery pods, you might try making some circular clamps to go around the front of each pod and attach towing eyes to those.? That way you could test the concept first and possibly refine it.Jim?In a message dated 9/9/2015 1:10:29 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: | The Bionic Guppy is pretty long and heavy though. Hank | ? ?From: via Personal_Submersibles ; To: ; Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2015 5:02:51 PM ? | If you pick up those three towing points so that everything pulls evenly in calm water, it will go a long way toward keeping things stable when things start pushing and pulling in different directions.? Vance -----Original Message----- From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2015 12:04 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing...Thanks Vance, I did think of maybe towing from the battery pods.? Maybe i'll weld on a couple of towing eyes.? Something else I should have thought of before..... will check out options later. regards James ?On 9 September 2015 at 16:38, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: The force applied that high and that close to the center of gravity will make her dive and squirm. Pull hard enough, she'll crab out to one side and roll toward the boat. It will be hard not to spill your tea. Vance -----Original Message----- From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2015 9:21 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing...That's what I was thinking.? However, there is a video of someone towing Bionic Guppy and they are pulling it from the lifting eye.? Different boat though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApUnGjTb4DQ ?On 9 September 2015 at 12:23, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi James, I think you need to tow from the front leading edge to avoid crabbing. Hank ? ?On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 3:36 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Hi All, Has anyone towed a K boat from the forward lifting eye?? I am going to tow my boat to a better diving location.? I think the best place to tow it would be the very front, on the hand rail mounting post.? At this point there is a 20mm stainless bar bolted through the forward tank and into the framework.? Although its a thick bar, I have a feeling it might get damaged if I tow the boat from that point.? Forward lifting eye would be better but ive got a feeling it might now tow very well. Any thoughts? Thanks James ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailinglistPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailinglistPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 21:18:24 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 21:18:24 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi James, With Snoopy, I find the best thing is to tie off the tow line on the claw. You basically want it as far forward as possible to minimize crabbing, and as low as possible to prevent diving. Best, Alec On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 11:24 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I think its going to have to be the non-technical "just try it and see" > method. I might even try towing it backwards as I have a nearly completely > enclosed aft fairing, although this may be worse and be like trying to tow > a bucket. We'll see. > > Regards > James > > On 9 September 2015 at 15:58, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> I'm not that familiar with the K boats, but my first impression is that >> for maximum stability you would want to tow it from a forward point near >> the center of surge resistance, with sufficient scope in the tow line to >> lead horizontally forward, much like a sonar tow fish. >> >> Sean >> >> >> On September 9, 2015 2:35:40 AM PDT, James Frankland via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> Has anyone towed a K boat from the forward lifting eye? >>> >>> I am going to tow my boat to a better diving location. I think the best >>> place to tow it would be the very front, on the hand rail mounting post. >>> At this point there is a 20mm stainless bar bolted through the forward tank >>> and into the framework. Although its a thick bar, I have a feeling it >>> might get damaged if I tow the boat from that point. Forward lifting eye >>> would be better but ive got a feeling it might now tow very well. >>> >>> Any thoughts? >>> Thanks >>> James >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 10 04:51:15 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 09:51:15 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Towing... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks all. Good advice. I will rig up something this weekend. Kind Regards James On 10 September 2015 at 02:18, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi James, > > With Snoopy, I find the best thing is to tie off the tow line on the claw. > You basically want it as far forward as possible to minimize crabbing, and > as low as possible to prevent diving. > > > Best, > > Alec > > On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 11:24 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> I think its going to have to be the non-technical "just try it and see" >> method. I might even try towing it backwards as I have a nearly completely >> enclosed aft fairing, although this may be worse and be like trying to tow >> a bucket. We'll see. >> >> Regards >> James >> >> On 9 September 2015 at 15:58, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >>> I'm not that familiar with the K boats, but my first impression is that >>> for maximum stability you would want to tow it from a forward point near >>> the center of surge resistance, with sufficient scope in the tow line to >>> lead horizontally forward, much like a sonar tow fish. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>> On September 9, 2015 2:35:40 AM PDT, James Frankland via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> Has anyone towed a K boat from the forward lifting eye? >>>> >>>> I am going to tow my boat to a better diving location. I think the >>>> best place to tow it would be the very front, on the hand rail mounting >>>> post. At this point there is a 20mm stainless bar bolted through the >>>> forward tank and into the framework. Although its a thick bar, I have a >>>> feeling it might get damaged if I tow the boat from that point. Forward >>>> lifting eye would be better but ive got a feeling it might now tow very >>>> well. >>>> >>>> Any thoughts? >>>> Thanks >>>> James >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 11 19:01:41 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 18:01:41 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 10K LED Light project - Housing Message-ID: I have uploaded the first draft of the housing for the 10K Lumen light to the PSUBS forum. I sttill need to do more FEA and thermal calcs. The purpose of uploading now is to get Ken the info he will need to design the PWB layout. This version of the housing has the SubConn connector on the back. I still need to do the one with the connector on the side. Cliff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 12 16:02:57 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 20:02:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 10K LED Light project - Housing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <884144157.1510456.1442088177196.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,where did you put that?I can see the last thread as being Ken putting up the 2 wiring diagrams on the 3rd Sept.Thanks Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2015 11:01 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 10K LED Light project - Housing I have uploaded the first draft of the housing for the 10K Lumen light to the PSUBS forum.? I sttill need to do more FEA and thermal calcs.? The purpose of uploading now is to get Ken the info he will need to design the PWB layout.? This version of the housing has the SubConn connector on the back.? I still need to do the one with the connector on the side. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 12 23:28:50 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 23:28:50 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 10K LED Light project - Housing In-Reply-To: <884144157.1510456.1442088177196.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <884144157.1510456.1442088177196.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55F4ED72.9020509@psubs.org> PSUBS.ORG -> PSUBS Community -> Community Projects Not sure why it won't upload to the webforum so I have put it in temporary space (see above). Make sure to "refresh" your browser so you can see the new link "Community Projects" in the main menu. Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 13 06:05:07 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 10:05:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 10K LED Light project - Housing In-Reply-To: <55F4ED72.9020509@psubs.org> References: <884144157.1510456.1442088177196.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55F4ED72.9020509@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1546592377.1622576.1442138707210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Jon,that was well worth looking at, Cliff's done a great job there.http://www.psubs.org/community/projects/LED-Assembly-1.pdf Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2015 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 10K LED Light project - Housing PSUBS.ORG -> PSUBS Community -> Community Projects Not sure why it won't upload to the webforum so I have put it in temporary space (see above).? Make sure to "refresh" your browser so you can see the new link "Community Projects" in the main menu. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 13 06:22:28 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 12:22:28 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] lowrance multibeam. Message-ID: Hi, Lowrance is offering a affordable multibeam fishfinder . Would be nice for a Psub.. Does somebody know if the unit is working without GPS signal? Regards, Emile van Essen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 13 06:34:16 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 12:34:16 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] lowrance multibeam. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://www.lowrance.com/en-US/Products/Sonar/ forgot the link.. Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 13 september 2015 12:22 Aan: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] lowrance multibeam. Hi, Lowrance is offering a affordable multibeam fishfinder . Would be nice for a Psub.. Does somebody know if the unit is working without GPS signal? Regards, Emile van Essen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 13 08:26:46 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 08:26:46 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 10K LED Light project - Housing In-Reply-To: <1546592377.1622576.1442138707210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <884144157.1510456.1442088177196.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55F4ED72.9020509@psubs.org> <1546592377.1622576.1442138707210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Wow!!!! That is really amazing. It looks totally buildable and I love the provided part numbers for the components. One question Cliff... what is the purpose of the groove shown in Detail D of the LED-01 drawing? It looks like it's meant for positioning a tab or something, but I can't see anything fitting into it. Thanks, Alec On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 6:05 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Jon, > that was well worth looking at, Cliff's done a great job there. > http://www.psubs.org/community/projects/LED-Assembly-1.pdf > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Sunday, September 13, 2015 3:28 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 10K LED Light project - Housing > > > PSUBS.ORG -> PSUBS Community -> Community Projects > > Not sure why it won't upload to the webforum so I have put it in > temporary space (see above). Make sure to "refresh" your browser so you > can see the new link "Community Projects" in the main menu. > > Jon > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 13 08:35:57 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 08:35:57 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] lowrance multibeam. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The array of combinations of models and modules had me looking at that website for an hour and I'm still no clearer on which exact product(s) I would go for. I have very little space inside the CT for instruments of any kind, but one really neat thing is that for $230 they offer a WIFI module that lets you turn a phone or tablet into a display. I read some of the manuals downloadable from the website and found nothing useful regarding your question about lack of a GPS signal. However, just logically I expect the pieces that would not work are the mapping functions such as overlaying the scans with a chart. Have you reached a conclusion on which display and modules you would go for? Thanks, Alec On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 6:34 AM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > http://www.lowrance.com/en-US/Products/Sonar/ > > > > forgot the link.. > > > > Emile > > > ------------------------------ > > *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *Emile van Essen via > Personal_Submersibles > *Verzonden:* zondag 13 september 2015 12:22 > *Aan:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > *Onderwerp:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] lowrance multibeam. > > > > Hi, > > > > Lowrance is offering a affordable multibeam fishfinder . > > Would be nice for a Psub.. > > Does somebody know if the unit is working without GPS signal? > > > > Regards, Emile van Essen > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 13 09:16:09 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 08:16:09 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 10K LED Light project - Housing In-Reply-To: References: <884144157.1510456.1442088177196.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55F4ED72.9020509@psubs.org> <1546592377.1622576.1442138707210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alec there is a small 2 pin wiring connector called a Pico EZMATE connector that has a two wire pigtail that plugs into the array. See Digikey part number WM9591-ND. The pigtail is inserted into the hole in the slot to enable wires to be connected to the PWB on the inside cavity of the back of the housing. I need to add a drawing of the part but have not been able to find a 3-D of the part online. cliff On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 7:26 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Wow!!!! That is really amazing. It looks totally buildable and I love the > provided part numbers for the components. One question Cliff... what is the > purpose of the groove shown in Detail D of the LED-01 drawing? It looks > like it's meant for positioning a tab or something, but I can't see > anything fitting into it. > > Thanks, > > Alec > > On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 6:05 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Thanks Jon, >> that was well worth looking at, Cliff's done a great job there. >> http://www.psubs.org/community/projects/LED-Assembly-1.pdf >> Alan >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Sunday, September 13, 2015 3:28 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 10K LED Light project - Housing >> >> >> PSUBS.ORG -> PSUBS Community -> Community Projects >> >> Not sure why it won't upload to the webforum so I have put it in >> temporary space (see above). Make sure to "refresh" your browser so you >> can see the new link "Community Projects" in the main menu. >> >> Jon >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 13 15:42:39 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 19:42:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] lowrance multibeam. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1828809182.1803199.1442173359465.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Emile,I have been looking at the simrad forward scan. And have talked withsales reps & the N.Z. Simrad manager. Both simrad & Lowrance are Navico brands.You plug the transducer in to the gen2 module which has GPS. So you can't get awaywithout buying that module.Lowrance HDS-5 Gen2 | Fishfinder GPS Chartplotter | ? | | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | Lowrance HDS-5 Gen2 | Fishfinder GPS ChartplotterThe Lowrance HDS-5 Gen2 fishfinder / chartplotter offers the best HDS? viewing experience. High-performance marine electronics with GPS, sonar and mapping op... | | | | View on www.lowrance.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | They do the software here in Auckland, but Navico is based in Tulsa Oklahoma.?Doug of submarineboat lives there & has been experimenting with adapting a scanning unit?for his rov.They make the transducers somewhere in Europe, & I haven't found out yet what pressure they are rated for.The N.Z. manager seemed to think that if you tried to shoot through the hull it wouldn't work well & it isn'tpromoted with that capacity. However a knowlegeable sales rep thought that if I coated the transducer witha thin layer of fiberglass & had it external to the hull it would operate OK. Just make sure there are no air voids?between the transducers plastic housing & the fiberglass.The simrad transducer looks to be more of a solid compact unit than the lowrance version.Be interested to see how you go, or if you find any more information.Cheers Alan From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2015 10:34 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] lowrance multibeam. #yiv0389305494 #yiv0389305494 -- _filtered #yiv0389305494 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv0389305494 #yiv0389305494 p.yiv0389305494MsoNormal, #yiv0389305494 li.yiv0389305494MsoNormal, #yiv0389305494 div.yiv0389305494MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv0389305494 a:link, #yiv0389305494 span.yiv0389305494MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0389305494 a:visited, #yiv0389305494 span.yiv0389305494MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0389305494 span.yiv0389305494E-mailStijl17 {font-family:Arial;color:windowtext;}#yiv0389305494 span.yiv0389305494E-mailStijl18 {font-family:Arial;color:navy;} _filtered #yiv0389305494 {margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}#yiv0389305494 div.yiv0389305494Section1 {}#yiv0389305494 http://www.lowrance.com/en-US/Products/Sonar/ ? forgot the link.. ? Emile ? Van: Personal_Submersibles[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 13 september2015 12:22 Aan: 'Personal SubmersiblesGeneral Discussion' Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST]lowrance multibeam. ? Hi, ? Lowrance is offering a affordable multibeamfishfinder . Would be nice for a Psub.. Does somebody know if the unit is working without GPSsignal? ? Regards, Emile van Essen ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 13 16:00:15 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 22:00:15 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] lowrance multibeam. In-Reply-To: <1828809182.1803199.1442173359465.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1828809182.1803199.1442173359465.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, Typical transducers have no hollow spaces so they would be okay for at least our depths.. I cut the cable of my Humminbird 999 SI transducer to mount it outside the hull. No problem (well, at least not till 50 metres..) Alec, No direct intentions to purchase but is a interesting psubs instrument. The sonar should work without GPS but better know for sure. Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 13 september 2015 21:43 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] lowrance multibeam. Hi Emile, I have been looking at the simrad forward scan. And have talked with sales reps & the N.Z. Simrad manager. Both simrad & Lowrance are Navico brands. You plug the transducer in to the gen2 module which has GPS. So you can't get away without buying that module. Lowrance HDS-5 Gen2 | Fishfinder GPS Chartplotter image Lowrance HDS-5 Gen2 | Fishfinder GPS Chartplotter The Lowrance HDS-5 Gen2 fishfinder / chartplotter offers the best HDSR viewing experience. High-performance marine electronics with GPS, sonar and mapping op... View on www.lowrance.com Preview by Yahoo They do the software here in Auckland, but Navico is based in Tulsa Oklahoma. Doug of submarineboat lives there & has been experimenting with adapting a scanning unit for his rov. They make the transducers somewhere in Europe, & I haven't found out yet what pressure they are rated for. The N.Z. manager seemed to think that if you tried to shoot through the hull it wouldn't work well & it isn't promoted with that capacity. However a knowlegeable sales rep thought that if I coated the transducer with a thin layer of fiberglass & had it external to the hull it would operate OK. Just make sure there are no air voids between the transducers plastic housing & the fiberglass. The simrad transducer looks to be more of a solid compact unit than the lowrance version. Be interested to see how you go, or if you find any more information. Cheers Alan _____ From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2015 10:34 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] lowrance multibeam. http://www.lowrance.com/en-US/Products/Sonar/ forgot the link.. Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 13 september 2015 12:22 Aan: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] lowrance multibeam. Hi, Lowrance is offering a affordable multibeam fishfinder . Would be nice for a Psub.. Does somebody know if the unit is working without GPS signal? Regards, Emile van Essen _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 13 17:25:07 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 21:25:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] lowrance multibeam. In-Reply-To: References: <1828809182.1803199.1442173359465.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1371681344.1854114.1442179507889.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I have all the measurements of the Simrad forward scan module & are planning them in tomy build. But I can see this sub taking a couple of years & I would probably be wise tohold off buying, as the prices will go down & they will produce new models.Alan From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 8:00 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] lowrance multibeam. #yiv8157116763 #yiv8157116763 -- -- filtered {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv8157116763 filtered {margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}#yiv8157116763 _filtered #yiv8157116763 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv8157116763 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} _filtered #yiv8157116763 {font-family:Georgia;panose-1:2 4 5 2 5 4 5 2 3 3;}#yiv8157116763 #yiv8157116763 p.yiv8157116763MsoNormal, #yiv8157116763 li.yiv8157116763MsoNormal, #yiv8157116763 div.yiv8157116763MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv8157116763 a:link, #yiv8157116763 span.yiv8157116763MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv8157116763 a:visited, #yiv8157116763 span.yiv8157116763MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv8157116763 p.yiv8157116763msonormal, #yiv8157116763 li.yiv8157116763msonormal, #yiv8157116763 div.yiv8157116763msonormal {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv8157116763 p.yiv8157116763msonormal1, #yiv8157116763 li.yiv8157116763msonormal1, #yiv8157116763 div.yiv8157116763msonormal1 {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv8157116763 span.yiv8157116763msohyperlink1 {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv8157116763 span.yiv8157116763msohyperlinkfollowed1 {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv8157116763 span.yiv8157116763e-mailstijl171 {font-family:Arial;color:windowtext;}#yiv8157116763 span.yiv8157116763e-mailstijl181 {font-family:Arial;color:navy;}#yiv8157116763 span.yiv8157116763E-mailStijl34 {font-family:Arial;color:navy;} _filtered #yiv8157116763 {margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}#yiv8157116763 div.yiv8157116763Section1 {}#yiv8157116763 Hi Alan, Typical ?transducershave no hollow spaces so they would be okay for at least our depths.. ? I cut the cable of myHumminbird 999 SI ?transducer to mount it outside the hull. No problem(well, at least not till 50 metres ..) ? Alec, No directintentions to purchase but is a interesting psubs instrument. The sonar shouldwork without GPS but better know for sure. ? Emile ? Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 13 september 201521:43 Aan: Personal Submersibles GeneralDiscussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]lowrance multibeam. ? HiEmile, Ihave been looking at the simrad forward scan. And have talked with salesreps & the N.Z. Simrad manager. Both simrad & Lowrance are Navicobrands. Youplug the transducer in to the gen2 module which has GPS. So you can't get away withoutbuying that module. LowranceHDS-5 Gen2 | Fishfinder GPS Chartplotter | ? | | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | Lowrance HDS-5 Gen2 | Fishfinder GPS Chartplotter The Lowrance HDS-5 Gen2 fishfinder / chartplotter offers the best HDS? viewing experience. High-performance marine electronics with GPS, sonar and mapping op... | | ? | | View on www.lowrance.com | Preview by Yahoo | | ? | | ? | | | | | | | | | | Theydo the software here in Auckland, but Navico is based in Tulsa Oklahoma.? Dougof submarineboat lives there & has been experimenting with adapting ascanning unit? forhis rov. Theymake the transducers somewhere in Europe, & I haven't found out yet whatpressure they are rated for. TheN.Z. manager seemed to think that if you tried to shoot through the hull itwouldn't work well & it isn't promotedwith that capacity. However a knowlegeable sales rep thought that if I coatedthe transducer with athin layer of fiberglass & had it external to the hull it would operate OK.Just make sure there are no air voids? betweenthe transducers plastic housing & the fiberglass. Thesimrad transducer looks to be more of a solid compact unit than the lowranceversion. Beinterested to see how you go, or if you find any more information. CheersAlan From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles GeneralDiscussion' Sent:Sunday, September 13, 2015 10:34 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]lowrance multibeam. ? http://www.lowrance.com/en-US/Products/Sonar/ ? forgot the link.. ? Emile ? ? Van: Personal_Submersibles[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden:zondag 13 september 2015 12:22 Aan: 'Personal SubmersiblesGeneral Discussion' Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST]lowrance multibeam. ? Hi, ? Lowrance is offering a affordable multibeam fishfinder . Would be nice for a Psub.. Does somebody know if the unit is working without GPS signal? ? Regards, Emile van Essen ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 13 17:56:15 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 17:56:15 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] lowrance multibeam. In-Reply-To: <1371681344.1854114.1442179507889.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1828809182.1803199.1442173359465.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1371681344.1854114.1442179507889.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, Just out of curiosity, can you tell me what parts would go into your setup if you were to get them now? I'm not there yet, have a sub to build before I get a sonar for it, but am trying to figure out what is what. Thanks, Alec On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 5:25 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I have all the measurements of the Simrad forward scan module & are > planning them in to > my build. But I can see this sub taking a couple of years & I would > probably be wise to > hold off buying, as the prices will go down & they will produce new models. > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Monday, September 14, 2015 8:00 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] lowrance multibeam. > > Hi Alan, Typical transducers have no hollow spaces so they would be okay > for at least our depths.. > > I cut the cable of my Humminbird 999 SI transducer to mount it outside > the hull. No problem (well, at least not till 50 metres ..) > > Alec, No direct intentions to purchase but is a interesting psubs > instrument. The sonar should work without GPS but better know for sure. > > Emile > > ------------------------------ > > > *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > *Verzonden:* zondag 13 september 2015 21:43 > *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] lowrance multibeam. > > Hi Emile, > I have been looking at the simrad forward scan. And have talked with > sales reps & the N.Z. Simrad manager. Both simrad & Lowrance are Navico > brands. > You plug the transducer in to the gen2 module which has GPS. So you can't > get away > without buying that module. > Lowrance HDS-5 Gen2 | Fishfinder GPS Chartplotter > > > > > [image: image] > > > > > > > Lowrance HDS-5 Gen2 | Fishfinder GPS Chartplotter > > The Lowrance HDS-5 Gen2 fishfinder / chartplotter offers the best HDS? > viewing experience. High-performance marine electronics with GPS, sonar and > mapping op... > > View on *www.lowrance.com* > > Preview by Yahoo > > > They do the software here in Auckland, but Navico is based in Tulsa > Oklahoma. > Doug of submarineboat lives there & has been experimenting with adapting a > scanning unit > for his rov. > They make the transducers somewhere in Europe, & I haven't found out yet > what pressure they are rated for. > The N.Z. manager seemed to think that if you tried to shoot through the > hull it wouldn't work well & it isn't > promoted with that capacity. However a knowlegeable sales rep thought that > if I coated the transducer with > a thin layer of fiberglass & had it external to the hull it would operate > OK. Just make sure there are no air voids > between the transducers plastic housing & the fiberglass. > The simrad transducer looks to be more of a solid compact unit than the > lowrance version. > Be interested to see how you go, or if you find any more information. > Cheers Alan > ------------------------------ > *From:* Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Sunday, September 13, 2015 10:34 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] lowrance multibeam. > > http://www.lowrance.com/en-US/Products/Sonar/ > > forgot the link.. > > Emile > > ------------------------------ > > *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *Namens * Emile van Essen via > Personal_Submersibles > *Verzonden:* zondag 13 september 2015 12:22 > *Aan:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > *Onderwerp:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] lowrance multibeam. > > Hi, > > Lowrance is offering a affordable multibeam fishfinder . > Would be nice for a Psub.. > Does somebody know if the unit is working without GPS signal? > > Regards, Emile van Essen > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 13 17:58:10 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 17:58:10 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mammoth depth gauge on eBay Message-ID: If only my little boat were big enough for a 12" diameter depth gauge! This is old school but looks like really top notch quality. http://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-PRESSURE-GAUGE-SEAWATER-FEET-0-450-25547-DIVER-LIFE-SUPPORT-NAVY-SURPLUS-NEW-/171917985076?hash=item28071c4534 Best, Alec -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 13 19:35:21 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Christopher Cave via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 23:35:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage Message-ID: <1874267652.1923997.1442187321055.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I'm looking to buy an electronic depth gauge. Any suggestions for a brand, software etc... Thanks,Christopher ? christophercave at yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 13 20:27:09 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 00:27:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] lowrance multibeam. In-Reply-To: References: <1828809182.1803199.1442173359465.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1371681344.1854114.1442179507889.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <487960135.1905086.1442190429350.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Alec,I would get the Simrad forward scanning sonar. It does depth as well as forward scanning.http://www.simrad-yachting.com/en-GB/Products/Echosounders/Transducers/ForwardScan-Transducer-en-gb.aspx I want a smalll screen so am looking at this compatible module.http://www.simrad-yachting.com/en-US/Products/NSS-Touchscreen-Navigation/simrad-nss7-evo2-en-us.aspx If you want side scan capability also; none of the screens accomodate both forward & side scan so you are up forthis computer processor as well.?http://www.simrad-yachting.com/en-GB/Products/NSO-Systems-and-Marine-Monitors/Simrad-NSO-evo2-Marine-Processor-en-gb.aspx Cheers Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 9:56 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] lowrance multibeam. Hi Alan, Just out of curiosity, can you tell me what parts would go into your setup if you were to get them now? I'm not there yet, have a sub to build before I get a sonar for it, but am trying to figure out what is what.? Thanks, Alec On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 5:25 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have all the measurements of the Simrad forward scan module & are planning them in tomy build. But I can see this sub taking a couple of years & I would probably be wise tohold off buying, as the prices will go down & they will produce new models.Alan From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 8:00 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] lowrance multibeam. Hi Alan, Typical ?transducershave no hollow spaces so they would be okay for at least our depths.. ? I cut the cable of myHumminbird 999 SI ?transducer to mount it outside the hull. No problem(well, at least not till 50 metres ..) ? Alec, No directintentions to purchase but is a interesting psubs instrument. The sonar shouldwork without GPS but better know for sure. ? Emile ? Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 13 september 201521:43 Aan: Personal Submersibles GeneralDiscussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]lowrance multibeam. ? HiEmile, Ihave been looking at the simrad forward scan. And have talked with salesreps & the N.Z. Simrad manager. Both simrad & Lowrance are Navicobrands. Youplug the transducer in to the gen2 module which has GPS. So you can't get away withoutbuying that module. LowranceHDS-5 Gen2 | Fishfinder GPS Chartplotter | ? | | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | Lowrance HDS-5 Gen2 | Fishfinder GPS Chartplotter The Lowrance HDS-5 Gen2 fishfinder / chartplotter offers the best HDS? viewing experience. High-performance marine electronics with GPS, sonar and mapping op... | | ? | | View on www.lowrance.com | Preview by Yahoo | | ? | | ? | | | | | | | | | | Theydo the software here in Auckland, but Navico is based in Tulsa Oklahoma.? Dougof submarineboat lives there & has been experimenting with adapting ascanning unit? forhis rov. Theymake the transducers somewhere in Europe, & I haven't found out yet whatpressure they are rated for. TheN.Z. manager seemed to think that if you tried to shoot through the hull itwouldn't work well & it isn't promotedwith that capacity. However a knowlegeable sales rep thought that if I coatedthe transducer with athin layer of fiberglass & had it external to the hull it would operate OK.Just make sure there are no air voids? betweenthe transducers plastic housing & the fiberglass. Thesimrad transducer looks to be more of a solid compact unit than the lowranceversion. Beinterested to see how you go, or if you find any more information. CheersAlan From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles GeneralDiscussion' Sent:Sunday, September 13, 2015 10:34 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]lowrance multibeam. ? http://www.lowrance.com/en-US/Products/Sonar/ ? forgot the link.. ? Emile ? ? Van: Personal_Submersibles[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden:zondag 13 september 2015 12:22 Aan: 'Personal SubmersiblesGeneral Discussion' Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST]lowrance multibeam. ? Hi, ? Lowrance is offering a affordable multibeam fishfinder . Would be nice for a Psub.. Does somebody know if the unit is working without GPS signal? ? Regards, Emile van Essen ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 13 20:56:31 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 20:56:31 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage In-Reply-To: <1874267652.1923997.1442187321055.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1874267652.1923997.1442187321055.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55F61B3F.1060908@psubs.org> SSI technologies P51 family, but Honeywell MLH500PGL01G is about the same price and has better accuracy. I use combination of arduino, raspberry pi, and processing for my project. See http://www.subdb.info/cgi/database/showvessel/albums/index.cgi?A=1320788990&B=1439139327&C=&D=Submarine%20Environment%20Monitor%20Software Jon On 9/13/2015 7:35 PM, Christopher Cave via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I'm looking to buy an electronic depth gauge. Any suggestions for a > brand, software etc... > > Thanks, > Christopher > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 14 00:11:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 04:11:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 10K LED Light project - Housing In-Reply-To: References: <884144157.1510456.1442088177196.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55F4ED72.9020509@psubs.org> <1546592377.1622576.1442138707210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <571001142.1986933.1442203914310.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,you mentioned doing thermal calculations. I found this good article on Wiki that may be helpful.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_management_of_high-power_LEDs If the heat output is a big problem we can always turn the current down.I believe running a 10,000 lm LED at 5000 lm is a lot cooler than running a 5000 lm LED.This is something we could look in to more if we get in to trouble. I was still getting a lot of light offmy 50W LED & keeping it cool by running it on low amps.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 1:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 10K LED Light project - Housing Alec there is a small 2 pin wiring connector called a Pico EZMATE connector that has a two wire pigtail that plugs into the? array.?See Digikey part number WM9591-ND.? The pigtail is inserted into the hole in the slot to enable wires to be connected to the PWB on the inside cavity of the back of the housing.? I need to add a drawing of the part but have not been able to find a 3-D of the part online. cliff On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 7:26 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Wow!!!! That is really amazing. It looks totally buildable and I love the provided part numbers for the components. One question Cliff... what is the purpose of the groove shown in Detail D of the LED-01 drawing? It looks like it's meant for positioning a tab or something, but I can't see anything fitting into it. Thanks, Alec On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 6:05 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Jon,that was well worth looking at, Cliff's done a great job there.http://www.psubs.org/community/projects/LED-Assembly-1.pdf Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2015 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 10K LED Light project - Housing PSUBS.ORG -> PSUBS Community -> Community Projects Not sure why it won't upload to the webforum so I have put it in temporary space (see above).? Make sure to "refresh" your browser so you can see the new link "Community Projects" in the main menu. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 14 02:32:03 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?UTF-8?Q?Lasse_Schmidt_Westr=C3=A9n?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 08:32:03 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fly out ROV Message-ID: This would be a neat solution for an affordable fly out. I have the Open ROV but this looks so much sleeker. What do you think? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/openrov/1730870134?token=a007d972 /Lasse -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 14 09:02:26 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 09:02:26 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage In-Reply-To: <55F61B3F.1060908@psubs.org> References: <1874267652.1923997.1442187321055.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55F61B3F.1060908@psubs.org> Message-ID: Coincidentally I just spent yesterday afternoon selecting one of those. I would normally prefer an analog gauge because I try to minimize electronics to maximize reliability. However, on a 1,000 foot sub the needle would barely move on shallower dives, so digital display is the only way to go. The accuracy of these instruments is measured as a percent of full scale, and a cheap one is accurate to 1% FS. For a thousand foot sub, that means the smallest depth change it could measure is 10 feet - not good! Well, let me rephrase that. I'm fine knowing my depth to within 10 feet, but what I really want to know if whether my depth is increasing or decreasing, and I'd like to know that before I've traveled 10 feet. I settled on the Dwyer DPG-100, because it has this: - 0.25% FS accuracy - Displays pressure directly in feet of water - Wetted elements are 316 SS - IP66 enclosure (waterproof to "hose-down" standard) - Lighted display - Battery powered, so no need to wire it into the sub power (battery life 2000 hrs) - Reasonably priced ($185) It also records the max depth, hardly a necessity but cool for unmanned depth tests. For testing my K250 I just strapped a dive computer outside, but that wouldn't work for a test to over 1,000 feet. Here is a link: https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A_34.pdf If you want to go the Arduino or PLC route with a touch screen and all that, you can step up to the Dwyer DPG-200 because it transmits a process signal. The nice thing compared to the normal pressure transducers is if your Arduino, PLC, or display screen failed, you could still see the depth directly on the gauge. The DPG-200 also has high and low programmable alarms with NC and NO switches, so you could use it for example to automatically turn on your scrubber when going past ten feet, or to wake you up with a klaxon if you are going past your max depth. However, it has cables coming out the back that make it a little less compact, and it needs an external power feed. Dwyer also offers low-cost screens that you can plug the DPG-200 depth gauge into directly without any processor. https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A34A_low.pdf I opted for the DPG-100 because my focus is on simplicity, but depending on your priorities one or the other of these two should make a good instrument. Best, Alec On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 8:56 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > SSI technologies P51 family, but Honeywell MLH500PGL01G > > is about the same price and has better accuracy. I use combination of > arduino, raspberry pi, and processing for my project. See > http://www.subdb.info/cgi/database/showvessel/albums/index.cgi?A=1320788990&B=1439139327&C=&D=Submarine%20Environment%20Monitor%20Software > > Jon > > On 9/13/2015 7:35 PM, Christopher Cave via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I'm looking to buy an electronic depth gauge. Any suggestions for a brand, > software etc... > > Thanks, > Christopher > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 14 16:25:15 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:25:15 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mammoth depth gauge on eBay Message-ID: <20150914132515.BAEC3B22@m0087798.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 14 16:47:08 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 16:47:08 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mammoth depth gauge on eBay In-Reply-To: <20150914132515.BAEC3B22@m0087798.ppops.net> References: <20150914132515.BAEC3B22@m0087798.ppops.net> Message-ID: Excellent! I was wondering if that light green face means its phosphorescent. If it is you'll probably get by without using cabin lights. Best, Alec On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 4:25 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Alec, > Just nabbed that seawater gage ! I have room for it ! > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mammoth depth gauge on eBay > Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 17:58:10 -0400 > > If only my little boat were big enough for a 12" diameter depth gauge! > This is old school but looks like really top notch quality. > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-PRESSURE-GAUGE-SEAWATER-FEET-0-450-25547-DIVER-LIFE-SUPPORT-NAVY-SURPLUS-NEW-/171917985076?hash=item28071c4534 > > Best, > > Alec > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 14 18:05:14 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 15:05:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mammoth depth gauge on eBay Message-ID: <20150914150514.BAE8032D@m0086238.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 14 19:01:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 23:01:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage In-Reply-To: References: <1874267652.1923997.1442187321055.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55F61B3F.1060908@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1960276448.2488408.1442271709956.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,looks a good gauge; I am tempted to buy one :)It has an auto shut off after an hour, but this can be disengaged.The backlight goes out after 2 minutes which may be a nuisance, but as itworks off a small battery I guess this has to happen to preserve them.I would be interested to see if you think this is going to be a problem.A solution would be to wire the backlight LED to an external power sourceif you can get at it.Cheers Alan? From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 1:02 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage Coincidentally I just spent yesterday afternoon selecting one of those. I would normally prefer an analog gauge because I try to minimize electronics to maximize reliability. However, on a 1,000 foot sub the needle would barely move on shallower dives, so digital display is the only way to go. The accuracy of these instruments is measured as a percent of full scale, and a cheap one is accurate to 1% FS. For a thousand foot sub, that means the smallest depth change it could measure is 10 feet - not good! Well, let me rephrase that. I'm fine knowing my depth to within 10 feet, but what I really want to know if whether my depth is increasing or decreasing, and I'd like to know that before I've traveled 10 feet. I settled on the Dwyer DPG-100, because it has this: - 0.25% FS accuracy- Displays pressure directly in feet of water- Wetted elements are 316 SS- IP66 enclosure (waterproof to "hose-down" standard)- Lighted display- Battery powered, so no need to wire it into the sub power (battery life 2000 hrs)- Reasonably priced ($185) It also records the max depth, hardly a necessity but cool for unmanned depth tests. For testing my K250 I just strapped a dive computer outside, but that wouldn't work for a test to over 1,000 feet. Here is a link:?https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A_34.pdf If you want to go the Arduino or PLC route with a touch screen and all that, you can step up to the Dwyer DPG-200 because it transmits a process signal. The nice thing compared to the normal pressure transducers is if your Arduino, PLC, or display screen failed, you could still see the depth directly on the gauge. The DPG-200 also has high and low programmable alarms with NC and NO switches, so you could use it for example to automatically turn on your scrubber when going past ten feet, or to wake you up with a klaxon if you are going past your max depth. ? However, it has cables coming out the back that make it a little less compact, and it needs an external power feed. Dwyer also offers low-cost screens that you can plug the DPG-200 depth gauge into directly without any processor. ? https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A34A_low.pdf I opted for the DPG-100 because my focus is on simplicity, but depending on your priorities one or the other of these two should make a good instrument. Best, Alec ??? On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 8:56 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: SSI technologies P51 family, but Honeywell MLH500PGL01G is about the same price and has better accuracy.? I use combination of arduino, raspberry pi, and processing for my project.? Seehttp://www.subdb.info/cgi/database/showvessel/albums/index.cgi?A=1320788990&B=1439139327&C=&D=Submarine%20Environment%20Monitor%20Software Jon On 9/13/2015 7:35 PM, Christopher Cave via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I'm looking to buy an electronic depth gauge. Any suggestions for a brand, software etc... Thanks, Christopher _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 14 19:08:03 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 23:08:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fly out ROV In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1030881706.2472014.1442272083680.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Lasse,they are a great idea. I saw a fly-out rov operating off a deep diving sub in the movieAliens of the deep (I think).There are some reasonably priced rovs with simple manipulators. And a lot of designsfor making one yourself. If you had a manipulator with cutters you could manouver itaround your sub & cut off any obstruction if entangled. You could also use it to attach lifting ropesto anythingh you may want to recover.Cheers Alan From: Lasse Schmidt Westr?n via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 6:32 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fly out ROV This would be a neat solution for an affordable fly out.I have the Open ROV but this looks so much sleeker.What do you think? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/openrov/1730870134?token=a007d972 /Lasse _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 14 21:05:15 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 21:05:15 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage In-Reply-To: <1960276448.2488408.1442271709956.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1874267652.1923997.1442187321055.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55F61B3F.1060908@psubs.org> <1960276448.2488408.1442271709956.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, My current gauge has no lighting at all, so I have to turn on the cabin lights to see it. I would certainly prefer it to stay on indefinitely, but on the other hand it lights up with the press of a button so I guess it's better than what I have now. If it turns out to be a pain, I guess I could rig some little lights strategically - it should be easier to place a few adhesive LED strips in the vicinity than to hack the gauge. There is also at least one other instrument I would like to see that has no lighting at all. I've ordered one, so let's see what it's like once in hand. Best, Alec On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 7:01 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, > looks a good gauge; I am tempted to buy one :) > It has an auto shut off after an hour, but this can be disengaged. > The backlight goes out after 2 minutes which may be a nuisance, but as it > works off a small battery I guess this has to happen to preserve them. > I would be interested to see if you think this is going to be a problem. > A solution would be to wire the backlight LED to an external power source > if you can get at it. > Cheers Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 15, 2015 1:02 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage > > Coincidentally I just spent yesterday afternoon selecting one of those. I > would normally prefer an analog gauge because I try to minimize electronics > to maximize reliability. However, on a 1,000 foot sub the needle would > barely move on shallower dives, so digital display is the only way to go. > The accuracy of these instruments is measured as a percent of full scale, > and a cheap one is accurate to 1% FS. For a thousand foot sub, that means > the smallest depth change it could measure is 10 feet - not good! Well, let > me rephrase that. I'm fine knowing my depth to within 10 feet, but what I > really want to know if whether my depth is increasing or decreasing, and > I'd like to know that before I've traveled 10 feet. > > I settled on the Dwyer DPG-100, because it has this: > > - 0.25% FS accuracy > - Displays pressure directly in feet of water > - Wetted elements are 316 SS > - IP66 enclosure (waterproof to "hose-down" standard) > - Lighted display > - Battery powered, so no need to wire it into the sub power (battery life > 2000 hrs) > - Reasonably priced ($185) > > It also records the max depth, hardly a necessity but cool for unmanned > depth tests. For testing my K250 I just strapped a dive computer outside, > but that wouldn't work for a test to over 1,000 feet. > > Here is a link: https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A_34.pdf > > If you want to go the Arduino or PLC route with a touch screen and all > that, you can step up to the Dwyer DPG-200 because it transmits a process > signal. The nice thing compared to the normal pressure transducers is if > your Arduino, PLC, or display screen failed, you could still see the depth > directly on the gauge. The DPG-200 also has high and low programmable > alarms with NC and NO switches, so you could use it for example to > automatically turn on your scrubber when going past ten feet, or to wake > you up with a klaxon if you are going past your max depth. However, it > has cables coming out the back that make it a little less compact, and it > needs an external power feed. Dwyer also offers low-cost screens that you > can plug the DPG-200 depth gauge into directly without any processor. > > https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A34A_low.pdf > > > I opted for the DPG-100 because my focus is on simplicity, but depending > on your priorities one or the other of these two should make a good > instrument. > > > > Best, > > Alec > > > > On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 8:56 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > SSI technologies P51 family, but Honeywell MLH500PGL01G > > is about the same price and has better accuracy. I use combination of > arduino, raspberry pi, and processing for my project. See > http://www.subdb.info/cgi/database/showvessel/albums/index.cgi?A=1320788990&B=1439139327&C=&D=Submarine%20Environment%20Monitor%20Software > > Jon > > On 9/13/2015 7:35 PM, Christopher Cave via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I'm looking to buy an electronic depth gauge. Any suggestions for a brand, > software etc... > > Thanks, > Christopher > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 15 01:23:11 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 05:23:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage In-Reply-To: References: <1874267652.1923997.1442187321055.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55F61B3F.1060908@psubs.org> <1960276448.2488408.1442271709956.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <99007364.83033.1442294591427.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> OK, thanks Alec.It certainly looks good from every other aspect; & yes maybe somesmall directional LED light would do.Cheers Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage Hi Alan, My current gauge has no lighting at all, so I have to turn on the cabin lights to see it. I would certainly prefer it to stay on indefinitely, but on the other hand it lights up with the press of a button so I guess it's better than what I have now. If it turns out to be a pain, I guess I could rig some little lights strategically - it should be easier to place a few adhesive LED strips in the vicinity than to hack the gauge. There is also at least one other instrument I would like to see that has no lighting at all. I've ordered one, so let's see what it's like once in hand. Best, Alec On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 7:01 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,looks a good gauge; I am tempted to buy one :)It has an auto shut off after an hour, but this can be disengaged.The backlight goes out after 2 minutes which may be a nuisance, but as itworks off a small battery I guess this has to happen to preserve them.I would be interested to see if you think this is going to be a problem.A solution would be to wire the backlight LED to an external power sourceif you can get at it.Cheers Alan? From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 1:02 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage Coincidentally I just spent yesterday afternoon selecting one of those. I would normally prefer an analog gauge because I try to minimize electronics to maximize reliability. However, on a 1,000 foot sub the needle would barely move on shallower dives, so digital display is the only way to go. The accuracy of these instruments is measured as a percent of full scale, and a cheap one is accurate to 1% FS. For a thousand foot sub, that means the smallest depth change it could measure is 10 feet - not good! Well, let me rephrase that. I'm fine knowing my depth to within 10 feet, but what I really want to know if whether my depth is increasing or decreasing, and I'd like to know that before I've traveled 10 feet. I settled on the Dwyer DPG-100, because it has this: - 0.25% FS accuracy- Displays pressure directly in feet of water- Wetted elements are 316 SS- IP66 enclosure (waterproof to "hose-down" standard)- Lighted display- Battery powered, so no need to wire it into the sub power (battery life 2000 hrs)- Reasonably priced ($185) It also records the max depth, hardly a necessity but cool for unmanned depth tests. For testing my K250 I just strapped a dive computer outside, but that wouldn't work for a test to over 1,000 feet. Here is a link:?https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A_34.pdf If you want to go the Arduino or PLC route with a touch screen and all that, you can step up to the Dwyer DPG-200 because it transmits a process signal. The nice thing compared to the normal pressure transducers is if your Arduino, PLC, or display screen failed, you could still see the depth directly on the gauge. The DPG-200 also has high and low programmable alarms with NC and NO switches, so you could use it for example to automatically turn on your scrubber when going past ten feet, or to wake you up with a klaxon if you are going past your max depth. ? However, it has cables coming out the back that make it a little less compact, and it needs an external power feed. Dwyer also offers low-cost screens that you can plug the DPG-200 depth gauge into directly without any processor. ? https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A34A_low.pdf I opted for the DPG-100 because my focus is on simplicity, but depending on your priorities one or the other of these two should make a good instrument. Best, Alec ??? On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 8:56 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: SSI technologies P51 family, but Honeywell MLH500PGL01G is about the same price and has better accuracy.? I use combination of arduino, raspberry pi, and processing for my project.? Seehttp://www.subdb.info/cgi/database/showvessel/albums/index.cgi?A=1320788990&B=1439139327&C=&D=Submarine%20Environment%20Monitor%20Software Jon On 9/13/2015 7:35 PM, Christopher Cave via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I'm looking to buy an electronic depth gauge. Any suggestions for a brand, software etc... Thanks, Christopher _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 15 08:23:58 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 08:23:58 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage In-Reply-To: References: <1874267652.1923997.1442187321055.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55F61B3F.1060908@psubs.org> Message-ID: <55F80DDE.9070502@psubs.org> Alec, graduations of distance measurement is going to be limited by processing hardware not sensor accuracy. With a sensitive enough ADC (i.e. 16 bit) any sensor will show small graduations of vertical movement. The higher accuracy unit will only provide a better representation of actual depth, but you also have to remember that the delta between measured and actual with a %FS unit will be greater at the higher end of the scale than the lower end. So unless you are consistently diving deep a 1%FS is going to be more than accurate enough in most cases. Jon On 9/14/2015 9:02 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Coincidentally I just spent yesterday afternoon selecting one of > those. I would normally prefer an analog gauge because I try to > minimize electronics to maximize reliability. However, on a 1,000 foot > sub the needle would barely move on shallower dives, so digital > display is the only way to go. The accuracy of these instruments is > measured as a percent of full scale, and a cheap one is accurate to 1% > FS. For a thousand foot sub, that means the smallest depth change it > could measure is 10 feet - not good! Well, let me rephrase that. I'm > fine knowing my depth to within 10 feet, but what I really want to > know if whether my depth is increasing or decreasing, and I'd like to > know that before I've traveled 10 feet. > > I settled on the Dwyer DPG-100, because it has this: > > - 0.25% FS accuracy > - Displays pressure directly in feet of water > - Wetted elements are 316 SS > - IP66 enclosure (waterproof to "hose-down" standard) > - Lighted display > - Battery powered, so no need to wire it into the sub power (battery > life 2000 hrs) > - Reasonably priced ($185) > > It also records the max depth, hardly a necessity but cool for > unmanned depth tests. For testing my K250 I just strapped a dive > computer outside, but that wouldn't work for a test to over 1,000 feet. > > Here is a link: https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A_34.pdf > > If you want to go the Arduino or PLC route with a touch screen and all > that, you can step up to the Dwyer DPG-200 because it transmits a > process signal. The nice thing compared to the normal pressure > transducers is if your Arduino, PLC, or display screen failed, you > could still see the depth directly on the gauge. The DPG-200 also has > high and low programmable alarms with NC and NO switches, so you could > use it for example to automatically turn on your scrubber when going > past ten feet, or to wake you up with a klaxon if you are going past > your max depth. However, it has cables coming out the back that make > it a little less compact, and it needs an external power feed. Dwyer > also offers low-cost screens that you can plug the DPG-200 depth gauge > into directly without any processor. > > https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A34A_low.pdf > > > I opted for the DPG-100 because my focus is on simplicity, but > depending on your priorities one or the other of these two should make > a good instrument. > > > > Best, > > Alec > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 15 09:14:24 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 09:14:24 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage In-Reply-To: <55F80DDE.9070502@psubs.org> References: <1874267652.1923997.1442187321055.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55F61B3F.1060908@psubs.org> <55F80DDE.9070502@psubs.org> Message-ID: Oh my, I have so thoroughly forgotten this stuff even though it was used in every project back in college. The gauge comes in various ranges, and I got the 500 psi model which has a minimum graduation of 1 foot of water (no decimals). To summarize what you are saying, would this correct? At any depth, I could tell if I were rising or sinking with a 1 foot change in depth since that is the minimum graduation. At full design depth of 1,000 feet, the accuracy of the depth reading would be 2.5 feet. At shallower depths, the accuracy would be better but we're not sure exactly by how much - I'd say its immaterial since 2.5 feet is already more than accurate enough. There is also the issue of fresh versus salt water having a 3% density differential, a way larger "error" than the accuracy of the instrument. BTW the next model up (DPG-200) has both fresh and salt water display units. Best, Alec On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 8:23 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alec, graduations of distance measurement is going to be limited by > processing hardware not sensor accuracy. With a sensitive enough ADC (i.e. > 16 bit) any sensor will show small graduations of vertical movement. The > higher accuracy unit will only provide a better representation of actual > depth, but you also have to remember that the delta between measured and > actual with a %FS unit will be greater at the higher end of the scale than > the lower end. So unless you are consistently diving deep a 1%FS is going > to be more than accurate enough in most cases. > > Jon > > > On 9/14/2015 9:02 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Coincidentally I just spent yesterday afternoon selecting one of those. I >> would normally prefer an analog gauge because I try to minimize electronics >> to maximize reliability. However, on a 1,000 foot sub the needle would >> barely move on shallower dives, so digital display is the only way to go. >> The accuracy of these instruments is measured as a percent of full scale, >> and a cheap one is accurate to 1% FS. For a thousand foot sub, that means >> the smallest depth change it could measure is 10 feet - not good! Well, let >> me rephrase that. I'm fine knowing my depth to within 10 feet, but what I >> really want to know if whether my depth is increasing or decreasing, and >> I'd like to know that before I've traveled 10 feet. >> >> I settled on the Dwyer DPG-100, because it has this: >> >> - 0.25% FS accuracy >> - Displays pressure directly in feet of water >> - Wetted elements are 316 SS >> - IP66 enclosure (waterproof to "hose-down" standard) >> - Lighted display >> - Battery powered, so no need to wire it into the sub power (battery life >> 2000 hrs) >> - Reasonably priced ($185) >> >> It also records the max depth, hardly a necessity but cool for unmanned >> depth tests. For testing my K250 I just strapped a dive computer outside, >> but that wouldn't work for a test to over 1,000 feet. >> >> Here is a link: https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A_34.pdf >> >> If you want to go the Arduino or PLC route with a touch screen and all >> that, you can step up to the Dwyer DPG-200 because it transmits a process >> signal. The nice thing compared to the normal pressure transducers is if >> your Arduino, PLC, or display screen failed, you could still see the depth >> directly on the gauge. The DPG-200 also has high and low programmable >> alarms with NC and NO switches, so you could use it for example to >> automatically turn on your scrubber when going past ten feet, or to wake >> you up with a klaxon if you are going past your max depth. However, it >> has cables coming out the back that make it a little less compact, and it >> needs an external power feed. Dwyer also offers low-cost screens that you >> can plug the DPG-200 depth gauge into directly without any processor. >> >> https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A34A_low.pdf >> >> >> I opted for the DPG-100 because my focus is on simplicity, but depending >> on your priorities one or the other of these two should make a good >> instrument. >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 15 09:38:59 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 06:38:59 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1442324339.78484.YahooMailMobile@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alec, I have a depth gauge inside and never look at it. I use my simple depth finder good for 600 feet. I am mostly interested in where the bottom is. Also I know if I am sinking or surfacing and it is very sensitive. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 15 11:03:35 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 11:03:35 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage In-Reply-To: References: <1874267652.1923997.1442187321055.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55F61B3F.1060908@psubs.org> <55F80DDE.9070502@psubs.org> Message-ID: <55F83347.1080008@psubs.org> Correct. On 9/15/2015 9:14 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Oh my, I have so thoroughly forgotten this stuff even though it was > used in every project back in college. The gauge comes in various > ranges, and I got the 500 psi model which has a minimum graduation of > 1 foot of water (no decimals). To summarize what you are saying, would > this correct? At any depth, I could tell if I were rising or sinking > with a 1 foot change in depth since that is the minimum graduation. At > full design depth of 1,000 feet, the accuracy of the depth reading > would be 2.5 feet. At shallower depths, the accuracy would be better > but we're not sure exactly by how much - I'd say its immaterial since > 2.5 feet is already more than accurate enough. There is also the issue > of fresh versus salt water having a 3% density differential, a way > larger "error" than the accuracy of the instrument. BTW the next model > up (DPG-200) has both fresh and salt water display units. > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 15 14:43:33 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 14:43:33 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage In-Reply-To: <1442324339.78484.YahooMailMobile@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1442324339.78484.YahooMailMobile@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Interesting. I use the depth sounder for approaching the bottom but never look at it thereafter. I suspect, however, that it's simply because the sounder is in a much less visible spot for me. Food for thought... Alec On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 9:38 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, > I have a depth gauge inside and never look at it. I use my simple depth > finder good for 600 feet. I am mostly interested in where the bottom is. > Also I know if I am sinking or surfacing and it is very sensitive. > Hank > > ------------------------------ > * From: * Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; > * To: * Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; > * Subject: * Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage > * Sent: * Tue, Sep 15, 2015 1:14:24 PM > > Oh my, I have so thoroughly forgotten this stuff even though it was used > in every project back in college. The gauge comes in various ranges, and I > got the 500 psi model which has a minimum graduation of 1 foot of water (no > decimals). To summarize what you are saying, would this correct? At any > depth, I could tell if I were rising or sinking with a 1 foot change in > depth since that is the minimum graduation. At full design depth of 1,000 > feet, the accuracy of the depth reading would be 2.5 feet. At shallower > depths, the accuracy would be better but we're not sure exactly by how much > - I'd say its immaterial since 2.5 feet is already more than accurate > enough. There is also the issue of fresh versus salt water having a 3% > density differential, a way larger "error" than the accuracy of the > instrument. BTW the next model up (DPG-200) has both fresh and salt water > display units. > > > Best, > > Alec > > On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 8:23 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> >> Alec, graduations of distance measurement is going to be limited by >> processing hardware not sensor accuracy. With a sensitive enough ADC (i.e. >> 16 bit) any sensor will show small graduations of vertical movement. The >> higher accuracy unit will only provide a better representation of actual >> depth, but you also have to remember that the delta between measured and >> actual with a %FS unit will be greater at the higher end of the scale than >> the lower end. So unless you are consistently diving deep a 1%FS is going >> to be more than accurate enough in most cases. >> >> Jon >> >> >> On 9/14/2015 9:02 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> Coincidentally I just spent yesterday afternoon selecting one of those. >>> I would normally prefer an analog gauge because I try to minimize >>> electronics to maximize reliability. However, on a 1,000 foot sub the >>> needle would barely move on shallower dives, so digital display is the only >>> way to go. The accuracy of these instruments is measured as a percent of >>> full scale, and a cheap one is accurate to 1% FS. For a thousand foot sub, >>> that means the smallest depth change it could measure is 10 feet - not >>> good! Well, let me rephrase that. I'm fine knowing my depth to within 10 >>> feet, but what I really want to know if whether my depth is increasing or >>> decreasing, and I'd like to know that before I've traveled 10 feet. >>> >>> I settled on the Dwyer DPG-100, because it has this: >>> >>> - 0.25% FS accuracy >>> - Displays pressure directly in feet of water >>> - Wetted elements are 316 SS >>> - IP66 enclosure (waterproof to "hose-down" standard) >>> - Lighted display >>> - Battery powered, so no need to wire it into the sub power (battery >>> life 2000 hrs) >>> - Reasonably priced ($185) >>> >>> It also records the max depth, hardly a necessity but cool for unmanned >>> depth tests. For testing my K250 I just strapped a dive computer outside, >>> but that wouldn't work for a test to over 1,000 feet. >>> >>> Here is a link: https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A_34.pdf >>> >>> If you want to go the Arduino or PLC route with a touch screen and all >>> that, you can step up to the Dwyer DPG-200 because it transmits a process >>> signal. The nice thing compared to the normal pressure transducers is if >>> your Arduino, PLC, or display screen failed, you could still see the depth >>> directly on the gauge. The DPG-200 also has high and low programmable >>> alarms with NC and NO switches, so you could use it for example to >>> automatically turn on your scrubber when going past ten feet, or to wake >>> you up with a klaxon if you are going past your max depth. However, it >>> has cables coming out the back that make it a little less compact, and it >>> needs an external power feed. Dwyer also offers low-cost screens that you >>> can plug the DPG-200 depth gauge into directly without any processor. >>> >>> https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A34A_low.pdf >>> >>> >>> I opted for the DPG-100 because my focus is on simplicity, but depending >>> on your priorities one or the other of these two should make a good >>> instrument. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 15 18:59:18 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 22:59:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <582744536.29249.1442357958417.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Different pilot styles is all. ?You operate in reference to the surface, I operate in reference to the bottom. ??Hank On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 12:43 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Interesting. I use the depth sounder for approaching the bottom but never look at it thereafter. I suspect, however, that it's simply because the sounder is in a much less visible spot for me. Food for thought... Alec On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 9:38 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: | Alec, I have a depth gauge inside and never look at it. I use my simple depth finder good for 600 feet. I am mostly interested in where the bottom is. Also I know if I am sinking or surfacing and it is very sensitive. Hank | From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles ; To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2015 1:14:24 PM | Oh my, I have so thoroughly forgotten this stuff even though it was used in every project back in college. The gauge comes in various ranges, and I got the 500 psi model which has a minimum graduation of 1 foot of water (no decimals). To summarize what you are saying, would this correct? At any depth, I could tell if I were rising or sinking with a 1 foot change in depth since that is the minimum graduation. At full design depth of 1,000 feet, the accuracy of the depth reading would be 2.5 feet. At shallower depths, the accuracy would be better but we're not sure exactly by how much - I'd say its immaterial since 2.5 feet is already more than accurate enough. There is also the issue of fresh versus salt water having a 3% density differential, a way larger "error" than the accuracy of the instrument. BTW the next model up (DPG-200) has both fresh and salt water display units. Best, Alec? On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 8:23 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, graduations of distance measurement is going to be limited by processing hardware not sensor accuracy.? With a sensitive enough ADC (i.e. 16 bit) any sensor will show small graduations of vertical movement.? The higher accuracy unit will only provide a better representation of actual depth, but you also have to remember that the delta between measured and actual with a %FS unit will be greater at the higher end of the scale than the lower end.? So unless you are consistently diving deep a 1%FS is going to be more than accurate enough in most cases. Jon On 9/14/2015 9:02 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Coincidentally I just spent yesterday afternoon selecting one of those. I would normally prefer an analog gauge because I try to minimize electronics to maximize reliability. However, on a 1,000 foot sub the needle would barely move on shallower dives, so digital display is the only way to go. The accuracy of these instruments is measured as a percent of full scale, and a cheap one is accurate to 1% FS. For a thousand foot sub, that means the smallest depth change it could measure is 10 feet - not good! Well, let me rephrase that. I'm fine knowing my depth to within 10 feet, but what I really want to know if whether my depth is increasing or decreasing, and I'd like to know that before I've traveled 10 feet. I settled on the Dwyer DPG-100, because it has this: - 0.25% FS accuracy - Displays pressure directly in feet of water - Wetted elements are 316 SS - IP66 enclosure (waterproof to "hose-down" standard) - Lighted display - Battery powered, so no need to wire it into the sub power (battery life 2000 hrs) - Reasonably priced ($185) It also records the max depth, hardly a necessity but cool for unmanned depth tests. For testing my K250 I just strapped a dive computer outside, but that wouldn't work for a test to over 1,000 feet. Here is a link: https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A_34.pdf If you want to go the Arduino or PLC route with a touch screen and all that, you can step up to the Dwyer DPG-200 because it transmits a process signal. The nice thing compared to the normal pressure transducers is if your Arduino, PLC, or display screen failed, you could still see the depth directly on the gauge. The DPG-200 also has high and low programmable alarms with NC and NO switches, so you could use it for example to automatically turn on your scrubber when going past ten feet, or to wake you up with a klaxon if you are going past your max depth.? ?However, it has cables coming out the back that make it a little less compact, and it needs an external power feed. Dwyer also offers low-cost screens that you can plug the DPG-200 depth gauge into directly without any processor. https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A34A_low.pdf I opted for the DPG-100 because my focus is on simplicity, but depending on your priorities one or the other of these two should make a good instrument. Best, Alec _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 15 20:07:37 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 20:07:37 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage In-Reply-To: <582744536.29249.1442357958417.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <582744536.29249.1442357958417.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Actually I'm with you, I operate in reference to the bottom as well. Thing is, on the recent dives we were at the boat's depth limit all the time. > On Sep 15, 2015, at 6:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Different pilot styles is all. You operate in reference to the surface, I operate in reference to the bottom. > Hank > > > > On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 12:43 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Interesting. I use the depth sounder for approaching the bottom but never look at it thereafter. I suspect, however, that it's simply because the sounder is in a much less visible spot for me. Food for thought... > > Alec > > On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 9:38 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Alec, > I have a depth gauge inside and never look at it. I use my simple depth finder good for 600 feet. I am mostly interested in where the bottom is. Also I know if I am sinking or surfacing and it is very sensitive. > Hank > > From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles ; > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage > Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2015 1:14:24 PM > > Oh my, I have so thoroughly forgotten this stuff even though it was used in every project back in college. The gauge comes in various ranges, and I got the 500 psi model which has a minimum graduation of 1 foot of water (no decimals). To summarize what you are saying, would this correct? At any depth, I could tell if I were rising or sinking with a 1 foot change in depth since that is the minimum graduation. At full design depth of 1,000 feet, the accuracy of the depth reading would be 2.5 feet. At shallower depths, the accuracy would be better but we're not sure exactly by how much - I'd say its immaterial since 2.5 feet is already more than accurate enough. There is also the issue of fresh versus salt water having a 3% density differential, a way larger "error" than the accuracy of the instrument. BTW the next model up (DPG-200) has both fresh and salt water display units. > > > Best, > > Alec > > On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 8:23 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alec, graduations of distance measurement is going to be limited by processing hardware not sensor accuracy. With a sensitive enough ADC (i.e. 16 bit) any sensor will show small graduations of vertical movement. The higher accuracy unit will only provide a better representation of actual depth, but you also have to remember that the delta between measured and actual with a %FS unit will be greater at the higher end of the scale than the lower end. So unless you are consistently diving deep a 1%FS is going to be more than accurate enough in most cases. > > Jon > > > On 9/14/2015 9:02 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Coincidentally I just spent yesterday afternoon selecting one of those. I would normally prefer an analog gauge because I try to minimize electronics to maximize reliability. However, on a 1,000 foot sub the needle would barely move on shallower dives, so digital display is the only way to go. The accuracy of these instruments is measured as a percent of full scale, and a cheap one is accurate to 1% FS. For a thousand foot sub, that means the smallest depth change it could measure is 10 feet - not good! Well, let me rephrase that. I'm fine knowing my depth to within 10 feet, but what I really want to know if whether my depth is increasing or decreasing, and I'd like to know that before I've traveled 10 feet. > > I settled on the Dwyer DPG-100, because it has this: > > - 0.25% FS accuracy > - Displays pressure directly in feet of water > - Wetted elements are 316 SS > - IP66 enclosure (waterproof to "hose-down" standard) > - Lighted display > - Battery powered, so no need to wire it into the sub power (battery life 2000 hrs) > - Reasonably priced ($185) > > It also records the max depth, hardly a necessity but cool for unmanned depth tests. For testing my K250 I just strapped a dive computer outside, but that wouldn't work for a test to over 1,000 feet. > > Here is a link: https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A_34.pdf > > If you want to go the Arduino or PLC route with a touch screen and all that, you can step up to the Dwyer DPG-200 because it transmits a process signal. The nice thing compared to the normal pressure transducers is if your Arduino, PLC, or display screen failed, you could still see the depth directly on the gauge. The DPG-200 also has high and low programmable alarms with NC and NO switches, so you could use it for example to automatically turn on your scrubber when going past ten feet, or to wake you up with a klaxon if you are going past your max depth. However, it has cables coming out the back that make it a little less compact, and it needs an external power feed. Dwyer also offers low-cost screens that you can plug the DPG-200 depth gauge into directly without any processor. > > https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A34A_low.pdf > > > I opted for the DPG-100 because my focus is on simplicity, but depending on your priorities one or the other of these two should make a good instrument. > > > > Best, > > Alec > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 15 20:21:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 00:21:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35604960.82018.1442362914718.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Ahhh, yes, that is risky, you could easily go beyond your depth limit then. ? ?The bottom reference is useless in that case.?Hank On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 6:07 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Actually I'm with you, I operate in reference to the bottom as well. Thing is, on the recent dives we were at the boat's depth limit all the time. On Sep 15, 2015, at 6:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Different pilot styles is all. ?You operate in reference to the surface, I operate in reference to the bottom. ??Hank On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 12:43 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Interesting. I use the depth sounder for approaching the bottom but never look at it thereafter. I suspect, however, that it's simply because the sounder is in a much less visible spot for me. Food for thought... Alec On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 9:38 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: | Alec, I have a depth gauge inside and never look at it. I use my simple depth finder good for 600 feet. I am mostly interested in where the bottom is. Also I know if I am sinking or surfacing and it is very sensitive. Hank | From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles ; To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2015 1:14:24 PM | Oh my, I have so thoroughly forgotten this stuff even though it was used in every project back in college. The gauge comes in various ranges, and I got the 500 psi model which has a minimum graduation of 1 foot of water (no decimals). To summarize what you are saying, would this correct? At any depth, I could tell if I were rising or sinking with a 1 foot change in depth since that is the minimum graduation. At full design depth of 1,000 feet, the accuracy of the depth reading would be 2.5 feet. At shallower depths, the accuracy would be better but we're not sure exactly by how much - I'd say its immaterial since 2.5 feet is already more than accurate enough. There is also the issue of fresh versus salt water having a 3% density differential, a way larger "error" than the accuracy of the instrument. BTW the next model up (DPG-200) has both fresh and salt water display units. Best, Alec? On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 8:23 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, graduations of distance measurement is going to be limited by processing hardware not sensor accuracy.? With a sensitive enough ADC (i.e. 16 bit) any sensor will show small graduations of vertical movement.? The higher accuracy unit will only provide a better representation of actual depth, but you also have to remember that the delta between measured and actual with a %FS unit will be greater at the higher end of the scale than the lower end.? So unless you are consistently diving deep a 1%FS is going to be more than accurate enough in most cases. Jon On 9/14/2015 9:02 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Coincidentally I just spent yesterday afternoon selecting one of those. I would normally prefer an analog gauge because I try to minimize electronics to maximize reliability. However, on a 1,000 foot sub the needle would barely move on shallower dives, so digital display is the only way to go. The accuracy of these instruments is measured as a percent of full scale, and a cheap one is accurate to 1% FS. For a thousand foot sub, that means the smallest depth change it could measure is 10 feet - not good! Well, let me rephrase that. I'm fine knowing my depth to within 10 feet, but what I really want to know if whether my depth is increasing or decreasing, and I'd like to know that before I've traveled 10 feet. I settled on the Dwyer DPG-100, because it has this: - 0.25% FS accuracy - Displays pressure directly in feet of water - Wetted elements are 316 SS - IP66 enclosure (waterproof to "hose-down" standard) - Lighted display - Battery powered, so no need to wire it into the sub power (battery life 2000 hrs) - Reasonably priced ($185) It also records the max depth, hardly a necessity but cool for unmanned depth tests. For testing my K250 I just strapped a dive computer outside, but that wouldn't work for a test to over 1,000 feet. Here is a link: https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A_34.pdf If you want to go the Arduino or PLC route with a touch screen and all that, you can step up to the Dwyer DPG-200 because it transmits a process signal. The nice thing compared to the normal pressure transducers is if your Arduino, PLC, or display screen failed, you could still see the depth directly on the gauge. The DPG-200 also has high and low programmable alarms with NC and NO switches, so you could use it for example to automatically turn on your scrubber when going past ten feet, or to wake you up with a klaxon if you are going past your max depth.? ?However, it has cables coming out the back that make it a little less compact, and it needs an external power feed. Dwyer also offers low-cost screens that you can plug the DPG-200 depth gauge into directly without any processor. https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A34A_low.pdf I opted for the DPG-100 because my focus is on simplicity, but depending on your priorities one or the other of these two should make a good instrument. Best, Alec _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 16 15:11:08 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 15:11:08 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage In-Reply-To: <35604960.82018.1442362914718.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <35604960.82018.1442362914718.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I just received the gauge. As many of you know I'm always wary of electronics in a sub, and try to install them in watertight enclosures. Well, I'm pleased with this one. To install the battery you take off the back cover. It isn't some little thing that snaps into place with a pressure fit, it's a properly sealed affair with an O ring and three screws into the case body outside of said O ring. When I took off the lid I was quite surprised at the thickness of the body, it gives the impression not only of being totally waterproof but of being something you could jump up and down on. Best, Alec On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 8:21 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Ahhh, yes, that is risky, you could easily go beyond your depth limit > then. The bottom reference is useless in that case. > Hank > > > > On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 6:07 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Actually I'm with you, I operate in reference to the bottom as well. Thing > is, on the recent dives we were at the boat's depth limit all the time. > > > > On Sep 15, 2015, at 6:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Different pilot styles is all. You operate in reference to the surface, I > operate in reference to the bottom. > Hank > > > > On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 12:43 PM, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Interesting. I use the depth sounder for approaching the bottom but never > look at it thereafter. I suspect, however, that it's simply because the > sounder is in a much less visible spot for me. Food for thought... > > Alec > > On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 9:38 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alec, > I have a depth gauge inside and never look at it. I use my simple depth > finder good for 600 feet. I am mostly interested in where the bottom is. > Also I know if I am sinking or surfacing and it is very sensitive. > Hank > > ------------------------------ > * From: * Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; > * To: * Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; > * Subject: * Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage > * Sent: * Tue, Sep 15, 2015 1:14:24 PM > > Oh my, I have so thoroughly forgotten this stuff even though it was used > in every project back in college. The gauge comes in various ranges, and I > got the 500 psi model which has a minimum graduation of 1 foot of water (no > decimals). To summarize what you are saying, would this correct? At any > depth, I could tell if I were rising or sinking with a 1 foot change in > depth since that is the minimum graduation. At full design depth of 1,000 > feet, the accuracy of the depth reading would be 2.5 feet. At shallower > depths, the accuracy would be better but we're not sure exactly by how much > - I'd say its immaterial since 2.5 feet is already more than accurate > enough. There is also the issue of fresh versus salt water having a 3% > density differential, a way larger "error" than the accuracy of the > instrument. BTW the next model up (DPG-200) has both fresh and salt water > display units. > > > Best, > > Alec > > On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 8:23 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Alec, graduations of distance measurement is going to be limited by > processing hardware not sensor accuracy. With a sensitive enough ADC (i.e. > 16 bit) any sensor will show small graduations of vertical movement. The > higher accuracy unit will only provide a better representation of actual > depth, but you also have to remember that the delta between measured and > actual with a %FS unit will be greater at the higher end of the scale than > the lower end. So unless you are consistently diving deep a 1%FS is going > to be more than accurate enough in most cases. > > Jon > > > On 9/14/2015 9:02 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Coincidentally I just spent yesterday afternoon selecting one of those. I > would normally prefer an analog gauge because I try to minimize electronics > to maximize reliability. However, on a 1,000 foot sub the needle would > barely move on shallower dives, so digital display is the only way to go. > The accuracy of these instruments is measured as a percent of full scale, > and a cheap one is accurate to 1% FS. For a thousand foot sub, that means > the smallest depth change it could measure is 10 feet - not good! Well, let > me rephrase that. I'm fine knowing my depth to within 10 feet, but what I > really want to know if whether my depth is increasing or decreasing, and > I'd like to know that before I've traveled 10 feet. > > I settled on the Dwyer DPG-100, because it has this: > > - 0.25% FS accuracy > - Displays pressure directly in feet of water > - Wetted elements are 316 SS > - IP66 enclosure (waterproof to "hose-down" standard) > - Lighted display > - Battery powered, so no need to wire it into the sub power (battery life > 2000 hrs) > - Reasonably priced ($185) > > It also records the max depth, hardly a necessity but cool for unmanned > depth tests. For testing my K250 I just strapped a dive computer outside, > but that wouldn't work for a test to over 1,000 feet. > > Here is a link: https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A_34.pdf > > If you want to go the Arduino or PLC route with a touch screen and all > that, you can step up to the Dwyer DPG-200 because it transmits a process > signal. The nice thing compared to the normal pressure transducers is if > your Arduino, PLC, or display screen failed, you could still see the depth > directly on the gauge. The DPG-200 also has high and low programmable > alarms with NC and NO switches, so you could use it for example to > automatically turn on your scrubber when going past ten feet, or to wake > you up with a klaxon if you are going past your max depth. However, it > has cables coming out the back that make it a little less compact, and it > needs an external power feed. Dwyer also offers low-cost screens that you > can plug the DPG-200 depth gauge into directly without any processor. > > https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A34A_low.pdf > > > I opted for the DPG-100 because my focus is on simplicity, but depending > on your priorities one or the other of these two should make a good > instrument. > > > > Best, > > Alec > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 16 22:32:31 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 19:32:31 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage In-Reply-To: <35604960.82018.1442362914718.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <35604960.82018.1442362914718.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003901d0f0f1$1b62d1b0$52287510$@telus.net> Operating the boat with reference to both the bottom and the surface is the way to go. Which reference is of greatest importance depends on whether you are descending or ascending. I would think that both references are of note while the sub is in cruise. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-15-15 5:22 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage Ahhh, yes, that is risky, you could easily go beyond your depth limit then. The bottom reference is useless in that case. Hank On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 6:07 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Actually I'm with you, I operate in reference to the bottom as well. Thing is, on the recent dives we were at the boat's depth limit all the time. On Sep 15, 2015, at 6:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Different pilot styles is all. You operate in reference to the surface, I operate in reference to the bottom. Hank On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 12:43 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Interesting. I use the depth sounder for approaching the bottom but never look at it thereafter. I suspect, however, that it's simply because the sounder is in a much less visible spot for me. Food for thought... Alec On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 9:38 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Alec, I have a depth gauge inside and never look at it. I use my simple depth finder good for 600 feet. I am mostly interested in where the bottom is. Also I know if I am sinking or surfacing and it is very sensitive. Hank _____ From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles >; To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >; Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Gage Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2015 1:14:24 PM Oh my, I have so thoroughly forgotten this stuff even though it was used in every project back in college. The gauge comes in various ranges, and I got the 500 psi model which has a minimum graduation of 1 foot of water (no decimals). To summarize what you are saying, would this correct? At any depth, I could tell if I were rising or sinking with a 1 foot change in depth since that is the minimum graduation. At full design depth of 1,000 feet, the accuracy of the depth reading would be 2.5 feet. At shallower depths, the accuracy would be better but we're not sure exactly by how much - I'd say its immaterial since 2.5 feet is already more than accurate enough. There is also the issue of fresh versus salt water having a 3% density differential, a way larger "error" than the accuracy of the instrument. BTW the next model up (DPG-200) has both fresh and salt water display units. Best, Alec On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 8:23 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, graduations of distance measurement is going to be limited by processing hardware not sensor accuracy. With a sensitive enough ADC (i.e. 16 bit) any sensor will show small graduations of vertical movement. The higher accuracy unit will only provide a better representation of actual depth, but you also have to remember that the delta between measured and actual with a %FS unit will be greater at the higher end of the scale than the lower end. So unless you are consistently diving deep a 1%FS is going to be more than accurate enough in most cases. Jon On 9/14/2015 9:02 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Coincidentally I just spent yesterday afternoon selecting one of those. I would normally prefer an analog gauge because I try to minimize electronics to maximize reliability. However, on a 1,000 foot sub the needle would barely move on shallower dives, so digital display is the only way to go. The accuracy of these instruments is measured as a percent of full scale, and a cheap one is accurate to 1% FS. For a thousand foot sub, that means the smallest depth change it could measure is 10 feet - not good! Well, let me rephrase that. I'm fine knowing my depth to within 10 feet, but what I really want to know if whether my depth is increasing or decreasing, and I'd like to know that before I've traveled 10 feet. I settled on the Dwyer DPG-100, because it has this: - 0.25% FS accuracy - Displays pressure directly in feet of water - Wetted elements are 316 SS - IP66 enclosure (waterproof to "hose-down" standard) - Lighted display - Battery powered, so no need to wire it into the sub power (battery life 2000 hrs) - Reasonably priced ($185) It also records the max depth, hardly a necessity but cool for unmanned depth tests. For testing my K250 I just strapped a dive computer outside, but that wouldn't work for a test to over 1,000 feet. Here is a link: https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A_34.pdf If you want to go the Arduino or PLC route with a touch screen and all that, you can step up to the Dwyer DPG-200 because it transmits a process signal. The nice thing compared to the normal pressure transducers is if your Arduino, PLC, or display screen failed, you could still see the depth directly on the gauge. The DPG-200 also has high and low programmable alarms with NC and NO switches, so you could use it for example to automatically turn on your scrubber when going past ten feet, or to wake you up with a klaxon if you are going past your max depth. However, it has cables coming out the back that make it a little less compact, and it needs an external power feed. Dwyer also offers low-cost screens that you can plug the DPG-200 depth gauge into directly without any processor. https://www.dwyer-inst.com/PDF_files/A34A_low.pdf I opted for the DPG-100 because my focus is on simplicity, but depending on your priorities one or the other of these two should make a good instrument. Best, Alec _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 17 09:06:02 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 09:06:02 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 10K LED Light project - Housing In-Reply-To: References: <884144157.1510456.1442088177196.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55F4ED72.9020509@psubs.org> <1546592377.1622576.1442138707210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55FABABA.30302@psubs.org> Updated drawing from Cliff is available on the website. Please refresh your web browser, you should see (updated 9/17/2015) next to the link. www.psubs.org -> PSUBS Community -> Community Projects http://www.psubs.org/community/projects/LED-Assembly-2.pdf Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 17 16:47:10 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 20:47:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 10K LED Light project - Housing In-Reply-To: <55FABABA.30302@psubs.org> References: <884144157.1510456.1442088177196.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55F4ED72.9020509@psubs.org> <1546592377.1622576.1442138707210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55FABABA.30302@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1471237105.1203413.1442522830478.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> WOW, thanks again Cliff, you have done an exellent job.? ?Subconn do a right hand connector in that micro series, so thiscould be another option for people.Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 1:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 10K LED Light project - Housing Updated drawing from Cliff is available on the website.? Please refresh your web browser, you should see (updated 9/17/2015) next to the link. www.psubs.org -> PSUBS Community -> Community Projects http://www.psubs.org/community/projects/LED-Assembly-2.pdf Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 17 19:29:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 18:29:54 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 10K LED Light project - Housing In-Reply-To: <1471237105.1203413.1442522830478.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <884144157.1510456.1442088177196.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55F4ED72.9020509@psubs.org> <1546592377.1622576.1442138707210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55FABABA.30302@psubs.org> <1471237105.1203413.1442522830478.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Alan. This is still a work in progress. I have been getting a lot of good feedback that I will incorporate after PWBs get firmed up. BTW, my trip to New Zealand in November got postponed until next year by client. Low oil price has them in cost cutting mode. To bad as I was looking forward to tagging with the New Zealand Psub community. Maybe next year. Cliff On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 3:47 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > WOW, thanks again Cliff, you have done an exellent job. > Subconn do a right hand connector in that micro series, so this > could be another option for people. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, September 18, 2015 1:06 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 10K LED Light project - Housing > > > Updated drawing from Cliff is available on the website. Please refresh > your web browser, you should see (updated 9/17/2015) next to the link. > > www.psubs.org -> PSUBS Community -> Community Projects > > http://www.psubs.org/community/projects/LED-Assembly-2.pdf > > > > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 17 23:57:34 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 03:57:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 10K LED Light project - Housing In-Reply-To: References: <884144157.1510456.1442088177196.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55F4ED72.9020509@psubs.org> <1546592377.1622576.1442138707210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55FABABA.30302@psubs.org> <1471237105.1203413.1442522830478.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1065933645.1299289.1442548654578.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,was going to ask you about the trip.Give me a year & I might have something for you to look at.Hugh might be diving his boat too.Everything is going a bit slow at the moment.Cheers Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 10K LED Light project - Housing Thanks Alan. This is still a work in progress.? I have been getting a lot of good feedback that I will incorporate after PWBs get firmed up. BTW, my trip to New Zealand in November got postponed until next year by client.? Low oil price has them in cost cutting mode.? To bad as I was looking forward to tagging with the New Zealand Psub community. Maybe next year. Cliff On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 3:47 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: WOW, thanks again Cliff, you have done an exellent job.? ?Subconn do a right hand connector in that micro series, so thiscould be another option for people.Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 1:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 10K LED Light project - Housing Updated drawing from Cliff is available on the website.? Please refresh your web browser, you should see (updated 9/17/2015) next to the link. www.psubs.org -> PSUBS Community -> Community Projects http://www.psubs.org/community/projects/LED-Assembly-2.pdf Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 19 11:58:02 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 15:58:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1949100603.224273.1442678282587.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Here is my escape pod under a vacuum test. ?I am doing the deep test Tuesday at Slocan Lake. ? Ignore the ugly paint job, no point getting fancy if it is lost to the depths.Hank On Saturday, September 19, 2015 9:54 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0178.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16430 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 19 15:20:57 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 19:20:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <1949100603.224273.1442678282587.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1949100603.224273.1442678282587.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <447104463.237948.1442690458036.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Looks good Hank,I'm still not sure how it's going to operate, but I guess it will becomeclearer as you post pics of it installed.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 3:58 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Here is my escape pod under a vacuum test. ?I am doing the deep test Tuesday at Slocan Lake. ? Ignore the ugly paint job, no point getting fancy if it is lost to the depths.Hank On Saturday, September 19, 2015 9:54 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0178.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16430 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 19 15:41:46 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 19:41:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <447104463.237948.1442690458036.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <447104463.237948.1442690458036.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <355113818.275176.1442691707045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks' Alan,It is pretty simple really, it mounts horizontal to the aft head ?with the hatch inside the sub. ?In case I have to use it, I undo 8 bolts that hold it to the sub, then climb in the pod. ?The water pressure will hold the pod tight against the reinforcing ring while the bolts are removed. ?I will have a control rod that extends from the flood valve to the pod. ?I pull the rod that opens the flood valve, I close the hatch immediately and wait for the pressure to equalize. ?The pod releases and orients itself vertical with the hatch pointing to the surface and heads to the surface. ?I release air from a small hp tank inside that inflates a bladder (truck inner tube) ?to keep the sphere upright at the surface and provides a safe amount of freeboard. ? ?I have the port in the hatch ?so I know whats going on. ??Hank On Saturday, September 19, 2015 1:24 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Looks good Hank,I'm still not sure how it's going to operate, but I guess it will becomeclearer as you post pics of it installed.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 3:58 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Here is my escape pod under a vacuum test. ?I am doing the deep test Tuesday at Slocan Lake. ? Ignore the ugly paint job, no point getting fancy if it is lost to the depths.Hank On Saturday, September 19, 2015 9:54 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0178.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16430 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 19 16:47:39 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 13:47:39 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <355113818.275176.1442691707045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <447104463.237948.1442690458036.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <355113818.275176.1442691707045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001701d0f31c$6f889400$4e99bc00$@telus.net> Ingenious. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-19-15 12:42 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Thanks' Alan, It is pretty simple really, it mounts horizontal to the aft head with the hatch inside the sub. In case I have to use it, I undo 8 bolts that hold it to the sub, then climb in the pod. The water pressure will hold the pod tight against the reinforcing ring while the bolts are removed. I will have a control rod that extends from the flood valve to the pod. I pull the rod that opens the flood valve, I close the hatch immediately and wait for the pressure to equalize. The pod releases and orients itself vertical with the hatch pointing to the surface and heads to the surface. I release air from a small hp tank inside that inflates a bladder (truck inner tube) to keep the sphere upright at the surface and provides a safe amount of freeboard. I have the port in the hatch so I know whats going on. Hank On Saturday, September 19, 2015 1:24 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks good Hank, I'm still not sure how it's going to operate, but I guess it will become clearer as you post pics of it installed. Alan _____ From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 3:58 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Here is my escape pod under a vacuum test. I am doing the deep test Tuesday at Slocan Lake. Ignore the ugly paint job, no point getting fancy if it is lost to the depths. Hank On Saturday, September 19, 2015 9:54 AM, xxx xxxxx > wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16430 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 19 17:04:33 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 07:04:33 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <355113818.275176.1442691707045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <447104463.237948.1442690458036.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <355113818.275176.1442691707045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, That is admirably simple, especially the bit about the pressure holding it on after you undo the bolts. I wonder though did you consider the scenarios of a partly or fully pressurised sub as you are escaping? (I'm curious as to what valves are included for the escape pod) Highly unlikely really, but then so is having to use the escape pod - here are some specific cases I can think of. 1. There is a slight vacuum in the pod on surfacing (sucking hatch closed) 2. There is a slight overpressure in the pod on surfacing (blowing hatch open) 3. There is a major over-pressure during ascent (ie. Sub and pod were partly or fully at ambient before escape). Main implication is blowing the hatch, but if you were actually at ambient it would be incredibly tragic if the pod fell off due to lack of pressure holding it on. Cheers, Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 19 17:11:07 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 21:11:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <355113818.275176.1442691707045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <447104463.237948.1442690458036.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <355113818.275176.1442691707045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2105164513.286330.1442697067729.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Hank,very good explanation. I am enlightened now.How about a short snorkel in the hatch so you can breath in rough seas?Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Thanks' Alan,It is pretty simple really, it mounts horizontal to the aft head ?with the hatch inside the sub. ?In case I have to use it, I undo 8 bolts that hold it to the sub, then climb in the pod. ?The water pressure will hold the pod tight against the reinforcing ring while the bolts are removed. ?I will have a control rod that extends from the flood valve to the pod. ?I pull the rod that opens the flood valve, I close the hatch immediately and wait for the pressure to equalize. ?The pod releases and orients itself vertical with the hatch pointing to the surface and heads to the surface. ?I release air from a small hp tank inside that inflates a bladder (truck inner tube) ?to keep the sphere upright at the surface and provides a safe amount of freeboard. ? ?I have the port in the hatch ?so I know whats going on. ??Hank On Saturday, September 19, 2015 1:24 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Looks good Hank,I'm still not sure how it's going to operate, but I guess it will becomeclearer as you post pics of it installed.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 3:58 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Here is my escape pod under a vacuum test. ?I am doing the deep test Tuesday at Slocan Lake. ? Ignore the ugly paint job, no point getting fancy if it is lost to the depths.Hank On Saturday, September 19, 2015 9:54 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 19 17:15:24 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 21:15:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Progress Message-ID: <1242994346.267074.1442697324133.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Glen,how's that South African submarine going?Have you plumbed the depths with it yet?Kind regards?Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 19 17:20:31 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 21:20:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1102701915.302043.1442697631792.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Steve,I did not mention that the hatch will have two valves to act as a snorkel, in case there is a problem with the bladder and I can not open the hatch at the surface. ?I have the?same thoughts you mention about the bolts ?in some situations, e.g., if I want to get out in a hurry because a leak is developing. ?I went this way because it is bullet proof and quick and easy to build. ?I do think about it a lot so I may change it to remove the bolts from inside the pod where it is safe.If the sub and pod are at a great overpressure, I can deal with that by pumping air out with my hp compressor, I would just dump the air overboard. ?Also it takes very little depth to hold the pod in place with the bolts removed. ?At a depth where the pod could fall off, I could just swim out of that scenario.Hank On Saturday, September 19, 2015 3:04 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, That is admirably simple, especially the bit about the pressure holding it on after you undo the bolts.I wonder though did you consider the scenarios of a partly or fully pressurised sub as you are escaping?? (I'm curious as to what valves are included for the escape pod) Highly unlikely really, but then so is having to use the escape pod - here are some specific cases I can think of. 1. There is a slight vacuum in the pod on surfacing (sucking hatch closed) 2. There is a slight overpressure in the pod on surfacing (blowing hatch open) 3. There is a major over-pressure during ascent (ie. Sub and pod were partly or fully at ambient before escape). Main implication is blowing the hatch, but if you were actually at ambient it would be incredibly tragic if the pod fell off due to lack of pressure holding it on.Cheers, Steve _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 19 22:01:08 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 12:01:08 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <1102701915.302043.1442697631792.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1102701915.302043.1442697631792.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, I knew there would be a bunch more behind it:). Is there an over pressure valve though? Cheers, Steve On 20/09/2015 7:24 AM, "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Steve, > I did not mention that the hatch will have two valves to act as a snorkel, > in case there is a problem with the bladder and I can not open the hatch at > the surface. > I have the same thoughts you mention about the bolts in some situations, > e.g., if I want to get out in a hurry because a leak is developing. > I went this way because it is bullet proof and quick and easy to build. I > do think about it a lot so I may change it to remove the bolts from inside > the pod where it is safe. > If the sub and pod are at a great overpressure, I can deal with that by > pumping air out with my hp compressor, I would just dump the air overboard. > > Also it takes very little depth to hold the pod in place with the bolts > removed. At a depth where the pod could fall off, I could just swim out of > that scenario. > Hank > > > > On Saturday, September 19, 2015 3:04 PM, Stephen Fordyce via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > That is admirably simple, especially the bit about the pressure holding it > on after you undo the bolts. > I wonder though did you consider the scenarios of a partly or fully > pressurised sub as you are escaping? (I'm curious as to what valves are > included for the escape pod) Highly unlikely really, but then so is having > to use the escape pod - here are some specific cases I can think of. > 1. There is a slight vacuum in the pod on surfacing (sucking hatch closed) > 2. There is a slight overpressure in the pod on surfacing (blowing hatch > open) > 3. There is a major over-pressure during ascent (ie. Sub and pod were > partly or fully at ambient before escape). Main implication is blowing the > hatch, but if you were actually at ambient it would be incredibly tragic if > the pod fell off due to lack of pressure holding it on. > Cheers, > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 20 08:40:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 12:40:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <882408729.450475.1442752842791.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Steve,There is no over pressure valve in the traditional?sense. ?I will secure the hatch with rubber straps, the same as what holds a Jeep hood down. ?If there is an over pressure it will burp out the hatch. ?That is the plan for now at least. ? When I return from the deep test, I plan to build a test pool also.Hank On Saturday, September 19, 2015 8:01 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, I knew there would be a bunch more behind it:).Is there an over pressure valve though?Cheers, SteveOn 20/09/2015 7:24 AM, "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Hi Steve,I did not mention that the hatch will have two valves to act as a snorkel, in case there is a problem with the bladder and I can not open the hatch at the surface. ?I have the?same thoughts you mention about the bolts ?in some situations, e.g., if I want to get out in a hurry because a leak is developing. ?I went this way because it is bullet proof and quick and easy to build.? I do think about it a lot so I may change it to remove the bolts from inside the pod where it is safe.If the sub and pod are at a great overpressure, I can deal with that by pumping air out with my hp compressor, I would just dump the air overboard. ?Also it takes very little depth to hold the pod in place with the bolts removed.? At a depth where the pod could fall off, I could just swim out of that scenario.Hank On Saturday, September 19, 2015 3:04 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, That is admirably simple, especially the bit about the pressure holding it on after you undo the bolts.I wonder though did you consider the scenarios of a partly or fully pressurised sub as you are escaping?? (I'm curious as to what valves are included for the escape pod) Highly unlikely really, but then so is having to use the escape pod - here are some specific cases I can think of. 1. There is a slight vacuum in the pod on surfacing (sucking hatch closed) 2. There is a slight overpressure in the pod on surfacing (blowing hatch open) 3. There is a major over-pressure during ascent (ie. Sub and pod were partly or fully at ambient before escape). Main implication is blowing the hatch, but if you were actually at ambient it would be incredibly tragic if the pod fell off due to lack of pressure holding it on.Cheers, Steve _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 20 20:28:50 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 00:28:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub towing Message-ID: <1580264230.639678.1442795330383.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> James,How did your towing and dive work out? ?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 20 21:11:08 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 11:11:08 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <882408729.450475.1442752842791.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <882408729.450475.1442752842791.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sounds like a good plan Hank, brilliantly simple! On 20/09/2015 10:44 PM, "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Steve, > There is no over pressure valve in the traditional sense. I will secure > the hatch with rubber straps, the same as what holds a Jeep hood down. If > there is an over pressure it will burp out the hatch. That is the plan for > now at least. When I return from the deep test, I plan to build a test > pool also. > Hank > > > > On Saturday, September 19, 2015 8:01 PM, Stephen Fordyce via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > I knew there would be a bunch more behind it:). > Is there an over pressure valve though? > Cheers, > Steve > On 20/09/2015 7:24 AM, "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Steve, > I did not mention that the hatch will have two valves to act as a snorkel, > in case there is a problem with the bladder and I can not open the hatch at > the surface. > I have the same thoughts you mention about the bolts in some situations, > e.g., if I want to get out in a hurry because a leak is developing. > I went this way because it is bullet proof and quick and easy to build. I > do think about it a lot so I may change it to remove the bolts from inside > the pod where it is safe. > If the sub and pod are at a great overpressure, I can deal with that by > pumping air out with my hp compressor, I would just dump the air overboard. > > Also it takes very little depth to hold the pod in place with the bolts > removed. At a depth where the pod could fall off, I could just swim out of > that scenario. > Hank > > > > On Saturday, September 19, 2015 3:04 PM, Stephen Fordyce via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > That is admirably simple, especially the bit about the pressure holding it > on after you undo the bolts. > I wonder though did you consider the scenarios of a partly or fully > pressurised sub as you are escaping? (I'm curious as to what valves are > included for the escape pod) Highly unlikely really, but then so is having > to use the escape pod - here are some specific cases I can think of. > 1. There is a slight vacuum in the pod on surfacing (sucking hatch closed) > 2. There is a slight overpressure in the pod on surfacing (blowing hatch > open) > 3. There is a major over-pressure during ascent (ie. Sub and pod were > partly or fully at ambient before escape). Main implication is blowing the > hatch, but if you were actually at ambient it would be incredibly tragic if > the pod fell off due to lack of pressure holding it on. > Cheers, > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 20 23:03:02 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 23:03:02 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? Message-ID: I have an interesting thing to think about and wondered if any of the PSUBS brain trust might have a suggestion. One of the simplifications on my new sub is that all HP air lines are external, aside from the BIBS (which is normally shut off anyway). Thus, I'm looking for a 3,000-4,000 psi gauge to mount outside a viewport, like in the Pisces photo that I'll paste below. In case my paste doesn't come through, it is the one at the top of the following article: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/science/piloted-deep-sea-research-is-bottoming-out.html?_r=1 The first thing that came to mind was to use a SCUBA submersible pressure gauge, but the problem is these are normally 1 atm dry enclosures of limited depth rating. There is generally little information posted about how deep they'll go, but what I did find was mentioned 260 feet for the plastic ones and 490 feet for the brass variety. This is a 1,000 foot sub. The second idea was to use oil filled gauges intended for above-water use. But these generally have considerable bubbles in the oil, are not very good at keeping the oil inside, and have other hardware not intended to live long in sea water. Any suggestions would be most welcome! Thanks, Alec [image: Inline image 1] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 282529 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 20 23:21:22 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 13:21:22 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Alec, SCUBA gauges are actually oil filled (I have broken a few) and as far as I know have been taken unmodified on record dives as deep as 300m/1000ft, with no problems recorded. Cheers, Steve On 21/09/2015 1:04 PM, "Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I have an interesting thing to think about and wondered if any of the > PSUBS brain trust might have a suggestion. > > One of the simplifications on my new sub is that all HP air lines are > external, aside from the BIBS (which is normally shut off anyway). Thus, > I'm looking for a 3,000-4,000 psi gauge to mount outside a viewport, like > in the Pisces photo that I'll paste below. In case my paste doesn't come > through, it is the one at the top of the following article: > http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/science/piloted-deep-sea-research-is-bottoming-out.html?_r=1 > > The first thing that came to mind was to use a SCUBA submersible pressure > gauge, but the problem is these are normally 1 atm dry enclosures of > limited depth rating. There is generally little information posted about > how deep they'll go, but what I did find was mentioned 260 feet for the > plastic ones and 490 feet for the brass variety. This is a 1,000 foot sub. > > The second idea was to use oil filled gauges intended for above-water use. > But these generally have considerable bubbles in the oil, are not very good > at keeping the oil inside, and have other hardware not intended to live > long in sea water. > > Any suggestions would be most welcome! > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > [image: Inline image 1] > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 282529 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 20 23:55:19 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 03:55:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <603697862.668019.1442807719221.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Alec,I took photos of those submarines last year, but nothing clear enough to zoom?in on the gauges.?They look like scuba gauges that have been peeled out of theirrubber housing. Very friendly people who I am sure would comfirm what they were, ifyou emailed them. David Columbo has visited them on Oahu & Vance knows them.(of course)Cheers Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, September 21, 2015 3:03 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? I have an interesting thing to think about and wondered if any of the PSUBS brain trust might have a suggestion. One of the simplifications on my new sub is that all HP air lines are external, aside from the BIBS (which is normally shut off anyway). Thus, I'm looking for a 3,000-4,000 psi gauge to mount outside a viewport, like in the Pisces photo that I'll paste below. In case my paste doesn't come through, it is the one at the top of the following article:?http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/science/piloted-deep-sea-research-is-bottoming-out.html?_r=1 The first thing that came to mind was to use a SCUBA submersible pressure gauge, but the problem is these are normally 1 atm dry enclosures of limited depth rating. There is generally little information posted about how deep they'll go, but what I did find was mentioned 260 feet for the plastic ones and 490 feet for the brass variety. This is a 1,000 foot sub. The second idea was to use oil filled gauges intended for above-water use. But these generally have considerable bubbles in the oil, are not very good at keeping the oil inside, and have other hardware not intended to live long in sea water. Any suggestions would be most welcome! Thanks, Alec? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 21 00:13:17 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 04:13:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? In-Reply-To: <603697862.668019.1442807719221.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <603697862.668019.1442807719221.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1920729452.662271.1442808797645.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,I just sent an email off to them. I am interested in their answer also.Cheers Alan From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, September 21, 2015 3:55 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? Hi Alec,I took photos of those submarines last year, but nothing clear enough to zoom?in on the gauges.?They look like scuba gauges that have been peeled out of theirrubber housing. Very friendly people who I am sure would comfirm what they were, ifyou emailed them. David Columbo has visited them on Oahu & Vance knows them.(of course)Cheers Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, September 21, 2015 3:03 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? I have an interesting thing to think about and wondered if any of the PSUBS brain trust might have a suggestion. One of the simplifications on my new sub is that all HP air lines are external, aside from the BIBS (which is normally shut off anyway). Thus, I'm looking for a 3,000-4,000 psi gauge to mount outside a viewport, like in the Pisces photo that I'll paste below. In case my paste doesn't come through, it is the one at the top of the following article:?http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/science/piloted-deep-sea-research-is-bottoming-out.html?_r=1 The first thing that came to mind was to use a SCUBA submersible pressure gauge, but the problem is these are normally 1 atm dry enclosures of limited depth rating. There is generally little information posted about how deep they'll go, but what I did find was mentioned 260 feet for the plastic ones and 490 feet for the brass variety. This is a 1,000 foot sub. The second idea was to use oil filled gauges intended for above-water use. But these generally have considerable bubbles in the oil, are not very good at keeping the oil inside, and have other hardware not intended to live long in sea water. Any suggestions would be most welcome! Thanks, Alec? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 21 01:51:22 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 22:51:22 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? Message-ID: <20150920225122.D211A5C1@m0087797.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 282529 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 21 04:00:33 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 09:00:33 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub towing In-Reply-To: <1580264230.639678.1442795330383.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1580264230.639678.1442795330383.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Didn't go. My brother got called into work so had no boat. Hoping for this weekend weather permitting. On Monday, 21 September 2015, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, > How did your towing and dive work out? > Hank > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 21 05:03:08 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 10:03:08 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? In-Reply-To: <20150920225122.D211A5C1@m0087797.ppops.net> References: <20150920225122.D211A5C1@m0087797.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi Alec, I have a couple of thoughts. 1. The gauges I have are chemical protected, so they have an oil filled diaphragm separating the inlet line from the gauge internals. Then there is a small vent hole at the top of the gauge. You could attach a rubber hose\bladder to this vent hole, top it up with glycerine or whatever the gauge is filled with and have a fully compensated valve with a bladder. 2. How about using just a normal scuba gauge which will probably be perfectly fine. But, just make a small adapter that screws onto the gauge and has only a tiny little orifice to allow the input air. That way if the gauge did ever fail, it would only bleed out air slowly and you'd have time to blow tanks. If you are using a scuba 1st stage and piping from the HP port (I assume your not and are plumbing straight into tanks) then the scuba HP already has this small hole for the same reason. Also, it would be easy enough to test a gauge. Find somewhere deep enough and take a fishing rod and a packed lunch! Im fairly sure Emile has external gauges on his sub and its a 200m diver. He could maybe advise? Just a thought. Kind Regards James On 21 September 2015 at 06:51, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Alec, New sub ? I must have missed that ! do you have any > details? BTW, I received that big gage ! It's huge ! I hope I can get > it in through the hatch ! As it is designed for sea water I assume all I > have to do is plumb it in, will salt water getting into the tubing cause > any problems? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? > Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 23:03:02 -0400 > > I have an interesting thing to think about and wondered if any of the > PSUBS brain trust might have a suggestion. > > One of the simplifications on my new sub is that all HP air lines are > external, aside from the BIBS (which is normally shut off anyway). Thus, > I'm looking for a 3,000-4,000 psi gauge to mount outside a viewport, like > in the Pisces photo that I'll paste below. In case my paste doesn't come > through, it is the one at the top of the following article: > http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/science/piloted-deep-sea-research-is-bottoming-out.html?_r=1 > > The first thing that came to mind was to use a SCUBA submersible pressure > gauge, but the problem is these are normally 1 atm dry enclosures of > limited depth rating. There is generally little information posted about > how deep they'll go, but what I did find was mentioned 260 feet for the > plastic ones and 490 feet for the brass variety. This is a 1,000 foot sub. > > The second idea was to use oil filled gauges intended for above-water use. > But these generally have considerable bubbles in the oil, are not very good > at keeping the oil inside, and have other hardware not intended to live > long in sea water. > > Any suggestions would be most welcome! > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > [image: Inline image 1] > --089e0115ebd0a0d2500520391e8b--_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 282529 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 21 06:10:43 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 11:10:43 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Freebie Message-ID: Hi All, I have a Crowcon clip O2 monitor which has now run out. They only last 2 years before they switch themselves off. Before I throw it out, does anyone want it? The sensor is probably ok for testing or generally mucking about with. I wouldn't use it properly. Regards James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 21 08:12:07 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 08:12:07 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Steve, I have three of them on hand and all three are 1 atm air filled enclosures. Note that SCUBA depth gauges are oil filled, but I'm speaking of SCUBA tank pressure gauges. I do know oil filled ones exist, I just have not found any of that sort yet. Thanks, Alec On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 11:21 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Alec, > SCUBA gauges are actually oil filled (I have broken a few) and as far as I > know have been taken unmodified on record dives as deep as 300m/1000ft, > with no problems recorded. > > Cheers, > Steve > On 21/09/2015 1:04 PM, "Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> I have an interesting thing to think about and wondered if any of the >> PSUBS brain trust might have a suggestion. >> >> One of the simplifications on my new sub is that all HP air lines are >> external, aside from the BIBS (which is normally shut off anyway). Thus, >> I'm looking for a 3,000-4,000 psi gauge to mount outside a viewport, like >> in the Pisces photo that I'll paste below. In case my paste doesn't come >> through, it is the one at the top of the following article: >> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/science/piloted-deep-sea-research-is-bottoming-out.html?_r=1 >> >> The first thing that came to mind was to use a SCUBA submersible pressure >> gauge, but the problem is these are normally 1 atm dry enclosures of >> limited depth rating. There is generally little information posted about >> how deep they'll go, but what I did find was mentioned 260 feet for the >> plastic ones and 490 feet for the brass variety. This is a 1,000 foot sub. >> >> The second idea was to use oil filled gauges intended for above-water >> use. But these generally have considerable bubbles in the oil, are not very >> good at keeping the oil inside, and have other hardware not intended to >> live long in sea water. >> >> Any suggestions would be most welcome! >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Alec >> >> [image: Inline image 1] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 282529 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 21 08:20:16 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 08:20:16 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? In-Reply-To: References: <20150920225122.D211A5C1@m0087797.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi James, 1) I have a bunch of oil filled gauges lying around, but if they are left in any position other than with the rubber caps at the top, they leak all over the place. The shelf they live on is covered with oil, so I'm just not confident they will keep the oil inside in the field. 2) Yes, SCUBA tank gauges have a tiny orifice in their hose fittings for just that purpose, to prevent a broken instrument from emptying your tank too quickly. That is good and I plan to use it on the sub as well. However, the problem still persists that SCUBA gauges can only be taken to under 500 feet. I came across tech diver accounts of gauge issues such as the plastic faces buckling and pinning the needle, or the whole enclosure imploding at about 400 feet. Thanks, Alec On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 5:03 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Alec, > > I have a couple of thoughts. > > 1. The gauges I have are chemical protected, so they have an oil filled > diaphragm separating the inlet line from the gauge internals. Then there > is a small vent hole at the top of the gauge. You could attach a rubber > hose\bladder to this vent hole, top it up with glycerine or whatever the > gauge is filled with and have a fully compensated valve with a bladder. > > 2. How about using just a normal scuba gauge which will probably be > perfectly fine. But, just make a small adapter that screws onto the gauge > and has only a tiny little orifice to allow the input air. That way if the > gauge did ever fail, it would only bleed out air slowly and you'd have time > to blow tanks. If you are using a scuba 1st stage and piping from the HP > port (I assume your not and are plumbing straight into tanks) then the > scuba HP already has this small hole for the same reason. > > Also, it would be easy enough to test a gauge. Find somewhere deep > enough and take a fishing rod and a packed lunch! > > Im fairly sure Emile has external gauges on his sub and its a 200m diver. > He could maybe advise? > > Just a thought. > Kind Regards > James > > > > On 21 September 2015 at 06:51, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi Alec, New sub ? I must have missed that ! do you have any >> details? BTW, I received that big gage ! It's huge ! I hope I can get >> it in through the hatch ! As it is designed for sea water I assume all I >> have to do is plumb it in, will salt water getting into the tubing cause >> any problems? >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? >> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 23:03:02 -0400 >> >> I have an interesting thing to think about and wondered if any of the >> PSUBS brain trust might have a suggestion. >> >> One of the simplifications on my new sub is that all HP air lines are >> external, aside from the BIBS (which is normally shut off anyway). Thus, >> I'm looking for a 3,000-4,000 psi gauge to mount outside a viewport, like >> in the Pisces photo that I'll paste below. In case my paste doesn't come >> through, it is the one at the top of the following article: >> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/science/piloted-deep-sea-research-is-bottoming-out.html?_r=1 >> >> The first thing that came to mind was to use a SCUBA submersible pressure >> gauge, but the problem is these are normally 1 atm dry enclosures of >> limited depth rating. There is generally little information posted about >> how deep they'll go, but what I did find was mentioned 260 feet for the >> plastic ones and 490 feet for the brass variety. This is a 1,000 foot sub. >> >> The second idea was to use oil filled gauges intended for above-water >> use. But these generally have considerable bubbles in the oil, are not very >> good at keeping the oil inside, and have other hardware not intended to >> live long in sea water. >> >> Any suggestions would be most welcome! >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Alec >> >> [image: Inline image 1] >> --089e0115ebd0a0d2500520391e8b--_______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 282529 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 21 08:29:11 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 22:29:11 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Alec, Yep, I'm definitely speaking of submersible pressure gauges (SPG). I have these ones, or at least very similar: http://www.deepstop.de/en/deepstop-products/1144-deepstop-300-bar-oxy-minera-spg.html?search_query=gauge&results=32 Possibly it's the "minera" or "mineral" keyword you're looking for. I have friends that occasionally dive to 200m and they've not reported SPG problems. Cheers, Steve On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 10:12 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Steve, > > I have three of them on hand and all three are 1 atm air filled > enclosures. Note that SCUBA depth gauges are oil filled, but I'm speaking > of SCUBA tank pressure gauges. I do know oil filled ones exist, I just have > not found any of that sort yet. > > Thanks, > > Alec > > On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 11:21 PM, Stephen Fordyce via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Hi Alec, >> SCUBA gauges are actually oil filled (I have broken a few) and as far as >> I know have been taken unmodified on record dives as deep as 300m/1000ft, >> with no problems recorded. >> >> Cheers, >> Steve >> On 21/09/2015 1:04 PM, "Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles" < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> I have an interesting thing to think about and wondered if any of the >>> PSUBS brain trust might have a suggestion. >>> >>> One of the simplifications on my new sub is that all HP air lines are >>> external, aside from the BIBS (which is normally shut off anyway). Thus, >>> I'm looking for a 3,000-4,000 psi gauge to mount outside a viewport, like >>> in the Pisces photo that I'll paste below. In case my paste doesn't come >>> through, it is the one at the top of the following article: >>> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/science/piloted-deep-sea-research-is-bottoming-out.html?_r=1 >>> >>> The first thing that came to mind was to use a SCUBA submersible >>> pressure gauge, but the problem is these are normally 1 atm dry enclosures >>> of limited depth rating. There is generally little information posted about >>> how deep they'll go, but what I did find was mentioned 260 feet for the >>> plastic ones and 490 feet for the brass variety. This is a 1,000 foot sub. >>> >>> The second idea was to use oil filled gauges intended for above-water >>> use. But these generally have considerable bubbles in the oil, are not very >>> good at keeping the oil inside, and have other hardware not intended to >>> live long in sea water. >>> >>> Any suggestions would be most welcome! >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> [image: Inline image 1] >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 282529 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 21 08:29:48 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 12:29:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2003765410.849974.1442838589022.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,Why wouldn't you just have the gauge inside the hull?mounted directly to a shut off valve that is screwed into the hull, a simple tee in the line running down the hull.Hank On Monday, September 21, 2015 6:20 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi James, 1) I have a bunch of oil filled gauges lying around, but if they are left in any position other than with the rubber caps at the top, they leak all over the place. The shelf they live on is covered with oil, so I'm just not confident they will keep the oil inside in the field. 2) Yes, SCUBA tank gauges have a tiny orifice in their hose fittings for just that purpose, to prevent a broken instrument from emptying your tank too quickly. That is good and I plan to use it on the sub as well. However, the problem still persists that SCUBA gauges can only be taken to under 500 feet. I came across tech diver accounts of gauge issues such as the plastic faces buckling and pinning the needle, or the whole enclosure imploding at about 400 feet.? Thanks, Alec ? ? On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 5:03 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alec,?I have a couple of thoughts.? ?1.? The gauges I have are chemical protected, so they have an oil filled diaphragm separating the inlet line from the gauge internals.? Then there is a small vent hole at the top of the gauge.? You could attach a rubber hose\bladder to this vent hole, top it up with glycerine or whatever the gauge is filled with and have a fully compensated valve with a bladder.?2.? How about using just a normal scuba gauge which will probably be perfectly fine.? But, just make a small adapter that screws onto the gauge and has only a tiny little orifice to allow the input air.? That way if the gauge did ever fail, it would only bleed out air slowly and you'd have time to blow tanks.? If you are using a scuba 1st stage and piping from the HP port (I assume your not and are plumbing straight into tanks) then the scuba HP already has this small hole for the same reason.?Also, it would be easy enough to test a gauge.?? Find somewhere deep enough and take a fishing rod and a packed lunch!?Im fairly sure Emile has external gauges on his sub and its a 200m diver.? He could maybe advise??Just a thought. Kind Regards James?? On 21 September 2015 at 06:51, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alec,??? New sub ?? I must have missed that !??? do you have any details???? BTW, I received that big gage !? It's huge !? I hope I can get it in through the hatch !?? As it is designed for sea water I assume all I have to do is plumb it in, will salt water getting into the tubing cause any problems?? ?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 23:03:02 -0400 I have an interesting thing to think about and wondered if any of the PSUBS brain trust might have a suggestion. One of the simplifications on my new sub is that all HP air lines are external, aside from the BIBS (which is normally shut off anyway). Thus, I'm looking for a 3,000-4,000 psi gauge to mount outside a viewport, like in the Pisces photo that I'll paste below. In case my paste doesn't come through, it is the one at the top of the following article:?http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/science/piloted-deep-sea-research-is-bottoming-out.html?_r=1 The first thing that came to mind was to use a SCUBA submersible pressure gauge, but the problem is these are normally 1 atm dry enclosures of limited depth rating. There is generally little information posted about how deep they'll go, but what I did find was mentioned 260 feet for the plastic ones and 490 feet for the brass variety. This is a 1,000 foot sub. The second idea was to use oil filled gauges intended for above-water use. But these generally have considerable bubbles in the oil, are not very good at keeping the oil inside, and have other hardware not intended to live long in sea water. Any suggestions would be most welcome! Thanks, Alec? --089e0115ebd0a0d2500520391e8b--_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 282529 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 21 08:57:12 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 13:57:12 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? In-Reply-To: References: <20150920225122.D211A5C1@m0087797.ppops.net> Message-ID: >1) I have a bunch of oil filled gauges lying around, but if they are left in any position other than with the rubber caps at the top, they leak all over the place. The shelf they live on is covered with oil, so I'm just not confident they will >keep the oil inside in the field. Yes, I suppose so. The ones I have drip. I thought i'd sprung a minor hull leak at first... >2) Yes, SCUBA tank gauges have a tiny orifice in their hose fittings for just that purpose, to prevent a broken instrument from emptying your tank too quickly. That is good and I plan to use it on the sub as well. However, the problem >still persists that SCUBA gauges can only be taken to under 500 feet. I came across tech diver accounts of gauge issues such as the plastic faces buckling and pinning the needle, or the whole enclosure imploding at about 400 >feet. oh. Are you not having the HP lines inside the sub at all? Controlling the air with a through hull? Regards James On 21 September 2015 at 13:20, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi James, > > 1) I have a bunch of oil filled gauges lying around, but if they are left > in any position other than with the rubber caps at the top, they leak all > over the place. The shelf they live on is covered with oil, so I'm just not > confident they will keep the oil inside in the field. > > 2) Yes, SCUBA tank gauges have a tiny orifice in their hose fittings for > just that purpose, to prevent a broken instrument from emptying your tank > too quickly. That is good and I plan to use it on the sub as well. However, > the problem still persists that SCUBA gauges can only be taken to under 500 > feet. I came across tech diver accounts of gauge issues such as the plastic > faces buckling and pinning the needle, or the whole enclosure imploding at > about 400 feet. > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 5:03 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> Hi Alec, >> >> I have a couple of thoughts. >> >> 1. The gauges I have are chemical protected, so they have an oil filled >> diaphragm separating the inlet line from the gauge internals. Then there >> is a small vent hole at the top of the gauge. You could attach a rubber >> hose\bladder to this vent hole, top it up with glycerine or whatever the >> gauge is filled with and have a fully compensated valve with a bladder. >> >> 2. How about using just a normal scuba gauge which will probably be >> perfectly fine. But, just make a small adapter that screws onto the gauge >> and has only a tiny little orifice to allow the input air. That way if the >> gauge did ever fail, it would only bleed out air slowly and you'd have time >> to blow tanks. If you are using a scuba 1st stage and piping from the HP >> port (I assume your not and are plumbing straight into tanks) then the >> scuba HP already has this small hole for the same reason. >> >> Also, it would be easy enough to test a gauge. Find somewhere deep >> enough and take a fishing rod and a packed lunch! >> >> Im fairly sure Emile has external gauges on his sub and its a 200m >> diver. He could maybe advise? >> >> Just a thought. >> Kind Regards >> James >> >> >> >> On 21 September 2015 at 06:51, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi Alec, New sub ? I must have missed that ! do you have any >>> details? BTW, I received that big gage ! It's huge ! I hope I can get >>> it in through the hatch ! As it is designed for sea water I assume all I >>> have to do is plumb it in, will salt water getting into the tubing cause >>> any problems? >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? >>> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 23:03:02 -0400 >>> >>> I have an interesting thing to think about and wondered if any of the >>> PSUBS brain trust might have a suggestion. >>> >>> One of the simplifications on my new sub is that all HP air lines are >>> external, aside from the BIBS (which is normally shut off anyway). Thus, >>> I'm looking for a 3,000-4,000 psi gauge to mount outside a viewport, like >>> in the Pisces photo that I'll paste below. In case my paste doesn't come >>> through, it is the one at the top of the following article: >>> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/science/piloted-deep-sea-research-is-bottoming-out.html?_r=1 >>> >>> The first thing that came to mind was to use a SCUBA submersible >>> pressure gauge, but the problem is these are normally 1 atm dry enclosures >>> of limited depth rating. There is generally little information posted about >>> how deep they'll go, but what I did find was mentioned 260 feet for the >>> plastic ones and 490 feet for the brass variety. This is a 1,000 foot sub. >>> >>> The second idea was to use oil filled gauges intended for above-water >>> use. But these generally have considerable bubbles in the oil, are not very >>> good at keeping the oil inside, and have other hardware not intended to >>> live long in sea water. >>> >>> Any suggestions would be most welcome! >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> [image: Inline image 1] >>> --089e0115ebd0a0d2500520391e8b--_______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 282529 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 21 09:16:23 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 09:16:23 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Stephen, that is certainly a good lead. I suspect the same one is being sold here under different branding, so have emailed a vendor. On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 8:29 AM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Alec, > Yep, I'm definitely speaking of submersible pressure gauges (SPG). I have > these ones, or at least very similar: > http://www.deepstop.de/en/deepstop-products/1144-deepstop-300-bar-oxy-minera-spg.html?search_query=gauge&results=32 > > Possibly it's the "minera" or "mineral" keyword you're looking for. > > I have friends that occasionally dive to 200m and they've not reported SPG > problems. > > Cheers, > Steve > > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 10:12 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi Steve, >> >> I have three of them on hand and all three are 1 atm air filled >> enclosures. Note that SCUBA depth gauges are oil filled, but I'm speaking >> of SCUBA tank pressure gauges. I do know oil filled ones exist, I just have >> not found any of that sort yet. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Alec >> >> On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 11:21 PM, Stephen Fordyce via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> Hi Alec, >>> SCUBA gauges are actually oil filled (I have broken a few) and as far as >>> I know have been taken unmodified on record dives as deep as 300m/1000ft, >>> with no problems recorded. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Steve >>> On 21/09/2015 1:04 PM, "Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles" < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I have an interesting thing to think about and wondered if any of the >>>> PSUBS brain trust might have a suggestion. >>>> >>>> One of the simplifications on my new sub is that all HP air lines are >>>> external, aside from the BIBS (which is normally shut off anyway). Thus, >>>> I'm looking for a 3,000-4,000 psi gauge to mount outside a viewport, like >>>> in the Pisces photo that I'll paste below. In case my paste doesn't come >>>> through, it is the one at the top of the following article: >>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/science/piloted-deep-sea-research-is-bottoming-out.html?_r=1 >>>> >>>> The first thing that came to mind was to use a SCUBA submersible >>>> pressure gauge, but the problem is these are normally 1 atm dry enclosures >>>> of limited depth rating. There is generally little information posted about >>>> how deep they'll go, but what I did find was mentioned 260 feet for the >>>> plastic ones and 490 feet for the brass variety. This is a 1,000 foot sub. >>>> >>>> The second idea was to use oil filled gauges intended for above-water >>>> use. But these generally have considerable bubbles in the oil, are not very >>>> good at keeping the oil inside, and have other hardware not intended to >>>> live long in sea water. >>>> >>>> Any suggestions would be most welcome! >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Alec >>>> >>>> [image: Inline image 1] >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 282529 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 21 09:24:41 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 09:24:41 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? In-Reply-To: <2003765410.849974.1442838589022.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2003765410.849974.1442838589022.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, That is indeed the workaround I had in mind. I could use the same penetrator as the BIBS with a teed gauge after the hull stop and a second valve between T and BIBS. But if I can keep all but the BIBS outside it is my preferred solution. External HP lines will self-indicate leaks, are easier to work on, and any leaks won't cause cabin pressure increases. Thanks, Alec On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, > Why wouldn't you just have the gauge inside the hull mounted directly to > a shut off valve that is screwed into the hull, a simple tee in the line > running down the hull. > Hank > > > > On Monday, September 21, 2015 6:20 AM, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi James, > > 1) I have a bunch of oil filled gauges lying around, but if they are left > in any position other than with the rubber caps at the top, they leak all > over the place. The shelf they live on is covered with oil, so I'm just not > confident they will keep the oil inside in the field. > > 2) Yes, SCUBA tank gauges have a tiny orifice in their hose fittings for > just that purpose, to prevent a broken instrument from emptying your tank > too quickly. That is good and I plan to use it on the sub as well. However, > the problem still persists that SCUBA gauges can only be taken to under 500 > feet. I came across tech diver accounts of gauge issues such as the plastic > faces buckling and pinning the needle, or the whole enclosure imploding at > about 400 feet. > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 5:03 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Hi Alec, > > I have a couple of thoughts. > > 1. The gauges I have are chemical protected, so they have an oil filled > diaphragm separating the inlet line from the gauge internals. Then there > is a small vent hole at the top of the gauge. You could attach a rubber > hose\bladder to this vent hole, top it up with glycerine or whatever the > gauge is filled with and have a fully compensated valve with a bladder. > > 2. How about using just a normal scuba gauge which will probably be > perfectly fine. But, just make a small adapter that screws onto the gauge > and has only a tiny little orifice to allow the input air. That way if the > gauge did ever fail, it would only bleed out air slowly and you'd have time > to blow tanks. If you are using a scuba 1st stage and piping from the HP > port (I assume your not and are plumbing straight into tanks) then the > scuba HP already has this small hole for the same reason. > > Also, it would be easy enough to test a gauge. Find somewhere deep > enough and take a fishing rod and a packed lunch! > > Im fairly sure Emile has external gauges on his sub and its a 200m diver. > He could maybe advise? > > Just a thought. > Kind Regards > James > > > > On 21 September 2015 at 06:51, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Alec, New sub ? I must have missed that ! do you have any > details? BTW, I received that big gage ! It's huge ! I hope I can get > it in through the hatch ! As it is designed for sea water I assume all I > have to do is plumb it in, will salt water getting into the tubing cause > any problems? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? > Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 23:03:02 -0400 > > I have an interesting thing to think about and wondered if any of the > PSUBS brain trust might have a suggestion. > > One of the simplifications on my new sub is that all HP air lines are > external, aside from the BIBS (which is normally shut off anyway). Thus, > I'm looking for a 3,000-4,000 psi gauge to mount outside a viewport, like > in the Pisces photo that I'll paste below. In case my paste doesn't come > through, it is the one at the top of the following article: > http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/science/piloted-deep-sea-research-is-bottoming-out.html?_r=1 > > The first thing that came to mind was to use a SCUBA submersible pressure > gauge, but the problem is these are normally 1 atm dry enclosures of > limited depth rating. There is generally little information posted about > how deep they'll go, but what I did find was mentioned 260 feet for the > plastic ones and 490 feet for the brass variety. This is a 1,000 foot sub. > > The second idea was to use oil filled gauges intended for above-water use. > But these generally have considerable bubbles in the oil, are not very good > at keeping the oil inside, and have other hardware not intended to live > long in sea water. > > Any suggestions would be most welcome! > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > [image: Inline image 1] > --089e0115ebd0a0d2500520391e8b--_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 282529 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 21 09:31:01 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 14:31:01 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub hot water bottle. Message-ID: This is my new bladder for the aft motor. The old one was relying on the fuel bulb to act as the bladder, but I had the should provide a much better bladder. The small wheelbarrow inner tube was an alternative idea. Regards James ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 76186 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 21 09:34:15 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 09:34:15 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? In-Reply-To: References: <20150920225122.D211A5C1@m0087797.ppops.net> Message-ID: Exactly. The valves to blow ballast are outside and operated via through-hulls. On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 8:57 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >1) I have a bunch of oil filled gauges lying around, but if they are left > in any position other than with the rubber caps at the top, they leak all > over the place. The shelf they live on is covered with oil, so I'm just not > confident they will >keep the oil inside in the field. > > Yes, I suppose so. The ones I have drip. I thought i'd sprung a minor > hull leak at first... > > >2) Yes, SCUBA tank gauges have a tiny orifice in their hose fittings for > just that purpose, to prevent a broken instrument from emptying your tank > too quickly. That is good and I plan to use it on the sub as well. However, > the problem >still persists that SCUBA gauges can only be taken to under > 500 feet. I came across tech diver accounts of gauge issues such as the > plastic faces buckling and pinning the needle, or the whole enclosure > imploding at about 400 >feet. > > oh. Are you not having the HP lines inside the sub at all? Controlling > the air with a through hull? > Regards > James > > On 21 September 2015 at 13:20, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi James, >> >> 1) I have a bunch of oil filled gauges lying around, but if they are left >> in any position other than with the rubber caps at the top, they leak all >> over the place. The shelf they live on is covered with oil, so I'm just not >> confident they will keep the oil inside in the field. >> >> 2) Yes, SCUBA tank gauges have a tiny orifice in their hose fittings for >> just that purpose, to prevent a broken instrument from emptying your tank >> too quickly. That is good and I plan to use it on the sub as well. However, >> the problem still persists that SCUBA gauges can only be taken to under 500 >> feet. I came across tech diver accounts of gauge issues such as the plastic >> faces buckling and pinning the needle, or the whole enclosure imploding at >> about 400 feet. >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Alec >> >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 5:03 AM, James Frankland via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> Hi Alec, >>> >>> I have a couple of thoughts. >>> >>> 1. The gauges I have are chemical protected, so they have an oil filled >>> diaphragm separating the inlet line from the gauge internals. Then there >>> is a small vent hole at the top of the gauge. You could attach a rubber >>> hose\bladder to this vent hole, top it up with glycerine or whatever the >>> gauge is filled with and have a fully compensated valve with a bladder. >>> >>> 2. How about using just a normal scuba gauge which will probably be >>> perfectly fine. But, just make a small adapter that screws onto the gauge >>> and has only a tiny little orifice to allow the input air. That way if the >>> gauge did ever fail, it would only bleed out air slowly and you'd have time >>> to blow tanks. If you are using a scuba 1st stage and piping from the HP >>> port (I assume your not and are plumbing straight into tanks) then the >>> scuba HP already has this small hole for the same reason. >>> >>> Also, it would be easy enough to test a gauge. Find somewhere deep >>> enough and take a fishing rod and a packed lunch! >>> >>> Im fairly sure Emile has external gauges on his sub and its a 200m >>> diver. He could maybe advise? >>> >>> Just a thought. >>> Kind Regards >>> James >>> >>> >>> >>> On 21 September 2015 at 06:51, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Alec, New sub ? I must have missed that ! do you have any >>>> details? BTW, I received that big gage ! It's huge ! I hope I can get >>>> it in through the hatch ! As it is designed for sea water I assume all I >>>> have to do is plumb it in, will salt water getting into the tubing cause >>>> any problems? >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? >>>> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 23:03:02 -0400 >>>> >>>> I have an interesting thing to think about and wondered if any of the >>>> PSUBS brain trust might have a suggestion. >>>> >>>> One of the simplifications on my new sub is that all HP air lines are >>>> external, aside from the BIBS (which is normally shut off anyway). Thus, >>>> I'm looking for a 3,000-4,000 psi gauge to mount outside a viewport, like >>>> in the Pisces photo that I'll paste below. In case my paste doesn't come >>>> through, it is the one at the top of the following article: >>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/science/piloted-deep-sea-research-is-bottoming-out.html?_r=1 >>>> >>>> The first thing that came to mind was to use a SCUBA submersible >>>> pressure gauge, but the problem is these are normally 1 atm dry enclosures >>>> of limited depth rating. There is generally little information posted about >>>> how deep they'll go, but what I did find was mentioned 260 feet for the >>>> plastic ones and 490 feet for the brass variety. This is a 1,000 foot sub. >>>> >>>> The second idea was to use oil filled gauges intended for above-water >>>> use. But these generally have considerable bubbles in the oil, are not very >>>> good at keeping the oil inside, and have other hardware not intended to >>>> live long in sea water. >>>> >>>> Any suggestions would be most welcome! >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Alec >>>> >>>> [image: Inline image 1] >>>> --089e0115ebd0a0d2500520391e8b--_______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 282529 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 21 10:48:55 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 14:48:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub hot water bottle. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <910355435.924791.1442846935230.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I used an inner tube?recently, it is a bit of a pain because it is a droopy mess to mount. ?Go with the other thing.Hank On Monday, September 21, 2015 7:31 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: This is my new bladder for the aft motor.? The old one was relying on the fuel bulb to act as the bladder, but I had the should?provide a much better bladder. The small wheelbarrow inner tube was an alternative idea.? ?RegardsJames ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 76186 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 21 13:03:44 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 10:03:44 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub hot water bottle. Message-ID: <20150921100344.E1AF829B@m0087792.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pneumatic.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5691 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 21 16:05:55 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 20:05:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub hot water bottle. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1319941445.1084279.1442865955427.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> James,Cliff is using this regulator as a compensating device.http://ph.parker.com/us/en/stainless-steel-pressure-regulator-pr354-pr364-series-miniature I intend to use it also. You attach it to your air line & dial in your required overpressure.It has a hole in the handle spindle that enables the regulator to keep theset pressure above ambient & also exhaust any over pressure as you ascend.The idea is to mount it with the handwheel facing down to avoid any water getting in the system,& additionally as a caution run a tube down off it.You can either fill your motor with oil; in which case any oil expansion can run up the length oftubing from the regulator to the motor, or just air compensate.Untried apart from one dive by Cliff.Looks more proffesional than a hot water bottle:)Cheers Alan From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2015 1:31 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub hot water bottle. This is my new bladder for the aft motor.? The old one was relying on the fuel bulb to act as the bladder, but I had the should?provide a much better bladder. The small wheelbarrow inner tube was an alternative idea.? ?RegardsJames ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 76186 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 21 19:08:01 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 16:08:01 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1442876881.39735.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Alec, Where are you thinking of mounting the gauges ? Outside one of the conn viewports ? Outside the dome ? Or 2 sets for one each ? Pete -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 9/21/15, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Monday, September 21, 2015, 8:34 AM Exactly. The valves to blow ballast are outside and operated via through-hulls. On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 8:57 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >1) I have a bunch of oil filled gauges lying around, but if they are left in any position other than with the rubber caps at the top, they leak all over the place. The shelf they live on is covered with oil, so I'm just not confident they will >keep the oil inside in the field.?Yes, I suppose so.? The ones I have drip.? I thought i'd sprung a minor hull leak at first...?>2) Yes, SCUBA tank gauges have a tiny orifice in their hose fittings for just that purpose, to prevent a broken instrument from emptying your tank too quickly. That is good and I plan to use it on the sub as well. However, the problem >still persists that SCUBA gauges can only be taken to under 500 feet. I came across tech diver accounts of gauge issues such as the plastic faces buckling and pinning the needle, or the whole enclosure imploding at about 400 >feet.??oh.? Are you not having the HP lines inside the sub at all?? Controlling the air with a through hull?? RegardsJames On 21 September 2015 at 13:20, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi James, 1) I have a bunch of oil filled gauges lying around, but if they are left in any position other than with the rubber caps at the top, they leak all over the place. The shelf they live on is covered with oil, so I'm just not confident they will keep the oil inside in the field. 2) Yes, SCUBA tank gauges have a tiny orifice in their hose fittings for just that purpose, to prevent a broken instrument from emptying your tank too quickly. That is good and I plan to use it on the sub as well. However, the problem still persists that SCUBA gauges can only be taken to under 500 feet. I came across tech diver accounts of gauge issues such as the plastic faces buckling and pinning the needle, or the whole enclosure imploding at about 400 feet.? Thanks, Alec ? ? On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 5:03 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alec,?I have a couple of thoughts.? ?1.? The gauges I have are chemical protected, so they have an oil filled diaphragm separating the inlet line from the gauge internals.? Then there is a small vent hole at the top of the gauge.? You could attach a rubber hose\bladder to this vent hole, top it up with glycerine or whatever the gauge is filled with and have a fully compensated valve with a bladder.?2.? How about using just a normal scuba gauge which will probably be perfectly fine.? But, just make a small adapter that screws onto the gauge and has only a tiny little orifice to allow the input air.? That way if the gauge did ever fail, it would only bleed out air slowly and you'd have time to blow tanks.? If you are using a scuba 1st stage and piping from the HP port (I assume your not and are plumbing straight into tanks) then the scuba HP already has this small hole for the same reason.?Also, it would be easy enough to test a gauge.?? Find somewhere deep enough and take a fishing rod and a packed lunch!?Im fairly sure Emile has external gauges on his sub and its a 200m diver.? He could maybe advise??Just a thought. Kind Regards James?? On 21 September 2015 at 06:51, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alec,??? New sub ?? I must have missed that !??? do you have any details???? BTW, I received that big gage !? It's huge !? I hope I can get it in through the hatch !?? As it is designed for sea water I assume all I have to do is plumb it in, will salt water getting into the tubing cause any problems?? ?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 23:03:02 -0400 I have an interesting thing to think about and wondered if any of the PSUBS brain trust might have a suggestion. One of the simplifications on my new sub is that all HP air lines are external, aside from the BIBS (which is normally shut off anyway). Thus, I'm looking for a 3,000-4,000 psi gauge to mount outside a viewport, like in the Pisces photo that I'll paste below. In case my paste doesn't come through, it is the one at the top of the following article:?http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/science/piloted-deep-sea-research-is-bottoming-out.html?_r=1 The first thing that came to mind was to use a SCUBA submersible pressure gauge, but the problem is these are normally 1 atm dry enclosures of limited depth rating. There is generally little information posted about how deep they'll go, but what I did find was mentioned 260 feet for the plastic ones and 490 feet for the brass variety. This is a 1,000 foot sub. The second idea was to use oil filled gauges intended for above-water use. But these generally have considerable bubbles in the oil, are not very good at keeping the oil inside, and have other hardware not intended to live long in sea water. Any suggestions would be most welcome! Thanks, Alec? --089e0115ebd0a0d2500520391e8b--_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 21 19:35:40 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 19:35:40 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? In-Reply-To: <1442876881.39735.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1442876881.39735.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It would go outside one of the CT viewports. Specifically, the one that looks back toward the stern and is therefore seldom used. The tank pressure is something I normally look at just once before a dive. You want to be able to see it if you want to, but it's not a frequent-use item I would put right in front of the pilot where real estate is most precious. So far I still haven't located a liquid filled SPG. The one Stephen suggested is for sale in Germany but I haven't located it here yet. Thanks, Alec On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 7:08 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, Where are you thinking of mounting the gauges ? Outside one of the > conn viewports ? Outside the dome ? Or 2 sets for one each ? > > Pete > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 9/21/15, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Date: Monday, September 21, 2015, 8:34 AM > > Exactly. > The valves to blow ballast are outside and operated via > through-hulls. > On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at > 8:57 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote: > >1) I > have a bunch of oil filled gauges lying around, but if they > are left in any position other than with the rubber caps at > the top, they leak all over the place. The shelf they live > on is covered with oil, so I'm just not confident they > will >keep the oil inside in the > field. Yes, I suppose so. The ones > I have drip. I thought i'd sprung a minor hull leak at > first... >2) Yes, > SCUBA tank gauges have a tiny orifice in their hose fittings > for just that purpose, to prevent a broken instrument from > emptying your tank too quickly. That is good and I plan to > use it on the sub as well. However, the problem >still > persists that SCUBA gauges can only be taken to under 500 > feet. I came across tech diver accounts of gauge issues such > as the plastic faces buckling and pinning the needle, or the > whole enclosure imploding at about 400 > >feet. oh. Are you not having > the HP lines inside the sub at all? Controlling the air > with a through hull? > RegardsJames > On 21 September 2015 at > 13:20, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote: > Hi James, > 1) I > have a bunch of oil filled gauges lying around, but if they > are left in any position other than with the rubber caps at > the top, they leak all over the place. The shelf they live > on is covered with oil, so I'm just not confident they > will keep the oil inside in the field. > 2) Yes, SCUBA tank gauges have a > tiny orifice in their hose fittings for just that purpose, > to prevent a broken instrument from emptying your tank too > quickly. That is good and I plan to use it on the sub as > well. However, the problem still persists that SCUBA gauges > can only be taken to under 500 feet. I came across tech > diver accounts of gauge issues such as the plastic faces > buckling and pinning the needle, or the whole enclosure > imploding at about 400 feet. > > Thanks, > Alec > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at > 5:03 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote: > Hi Alec, I have a > couple of thoughts. 1. The > gauges I have are chemical protected, so they have an oil > filled diaphragm separating the inlet line from the gauge > internals. Then there is a small vent hole at the top of > the gauge. You could attach a rubber hose\bladder to > this vent hole, top it up with glycerine or whatever the > gauge is filled with and have a fully compensated valve with > a bladder. 2. How about using just > a normal scuba gauge which will probably be perfectly > fine. But, just make a small adapter that screws onto the > gauge and has only a tiny little orifice to allow the input > air. That way if the gauge did ever fail, it would only > bleed out air slowly and you'd have time to blow > tanks. If you are using a scuba 1st stage and piping from > the HP port (I assume your not and are plumbing straight > into tanks) then the scuba HP already has this small hole > for the same reason. Also, it would > be easy enough to test a gauge. Find somewhere deep > enough and take a fishing rod and a packed > lunch! Im fairly sure Emile has > external gauges on his sub and its a 200m diver. He could > maybe advise? Just a thought. > Kind Regards > James > On 21 September > 2015 at 06:51, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote: > Hi Alec, New sub ? > I must have missed that ! do you have any > details? BTW, I received that big gage ! It's > huge ! I hope I can get it in through the hatch ! As > it is designed for sea water I assume all I have to do is > plumb it in, will salt water getting into the tubing cause > any problems? Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > From: Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for > outside viewport? > Date: Sun, 20 Sep > 2015 23:03:02 -0400 > > I have an > interesting thing to think about and wondered if any of the > PSUBS brain trust might have a suggestion. > One of the simplifications on my new > sub is that all HP air lines are external, aside from the > BIBS (which is normally shut off anyway). Thus, I'm > looking for a 3,000-4,000 psi gauge to mount outside a > viewport, like in the Pisces photo that I'll paste > below. In case my paste doesn't come through, it is the > one at the top of the following article: > http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/science/piloted-deep-sea-research-is-bottoming-out.html?_r=1 > The first thing that came to mind > was to use a SCUBA submersible pressure gauge, but the > problem is these are normally 1 atm dry enclosures of > limited depth rating. There is generally little information > posted about how deep they'll go, but what I did find > was mentioned 260 feet for the plastic ones and 490 feet for > the brass variety. This is a 1,000 foot sub. > The second idea was to use oil > filled gauges intended for above-water use. But these > generally have considerable bubbles in the oil, are not very > good at keeping the oil inside, and have other hardware not > intended to live long in sea water. > Any suggestions would be most > welcome! > > > Thanks, > Alec > > > > > --089e0115ebd0a0d2500520391e8b--_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 21 20:09:22 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 17:09:22 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1442880562.77359.YahooMailBasic@web161404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> What about illumination ? Pete -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 9/21/15, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Monday, September 21, 2015, 6:35 PM It would go outside one of the CT viewports. Specifically, the one that looks back toward the stern and is therefore seldom used. The tank pressure is something I normally look at just once before a dive. You want to be able to see it if you want to, but it's not a frequent-use item I would put right in front of the pilot where real estate is most precious. So far I still haven't located a liquid filled SPG. The one Stephen suggested is for sale in Germany but I haven't located it here yet. Thanks, Alec On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 7:08 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, Where are you thinking of mounting the gauges ? Outside one of the conn viewports ? Outside the dome ? Or 2 sets for one each ? Pete -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 9/21/15, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? ?To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ?Date: Monday, September 21, 2015, 8:34 AM ?Exactly. ?The valves to blow ballast are outside and operated via ?through-hulls. ?On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at ?8:57 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles ?wrote: ?>1) I ?have a bunch of oil filled gauges lying around, but if they ?are left in any position other than with the rubber caps at ?the top, they leak all over the place. The shelf they live ?on is covered with oil, so I'm just not confident they ?will >keep the oil inside in the ?field.?Yes, I suppose so.? The ones ?I have drip.? I thought i'd sprung a minor hull leak at ?first...?>2) Yes, ?SCUBA tank gauges have a tiny orifice in their hose fittings ?for just that purpose, to prevent a broken instrument from ?emptying your tank too quickly. That is good and I plan to ?use it on the sub as well. However, the problem >still ?persists that SCUBA gauges can only be taken to under 500 ?feet. I came across tech diver accounts of gauge issues such ?as the plastic faces buckling and pinning the needle, or the ?whole enclosure imploding at about 400 ?>feet.??oh.? Are you not having ?the HP lines inside the sub at all?? Controlling the air ?with a through hull?? ?RegardsJames ?On 21 September 2015 at ?13:20, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles ?wrote: ?Hi James, ?1) I ?have a bunch of oil filled gauges lying around, but if they ?are left in any position other than with the rubber caps at ?the top, they leak all over the place. The shelf they live ?on is covered with oil, so I'm just not confident they ?will keep the oil inside in the field. ?2) Yes, SCUBA tank gauges have a ?tiny orifice in their hose fittings for just that purpose, ?to prevent a broken instrument from emptying your tank too ?quickly. That is good and I plan to use it on the sub as ?well. However, the problem still persists that SCUBA gauges ?can only be taken to under 500 feet. I came across tech ?diver accounts of gauge issues such as the plastic faces ?buckling and pinning the needle, or the whole enclosure ?imploding at about 400 feet.? ?Thanks, ?Alec ? ?? ?On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at ?5:03 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles ?wrote: ?Hi Alec,?I have a ?couple of thoughts.? ?1.? The ?gauges I have are chemical protected, so they have an oil ?filled diaphragm separating the inlet line from the gauge ?internals.? Then there is a small vent hole at the top of ?the gauge.? You could attach a rubber hose\bladder to ?this vent hole, top it up with glycerine or whatever the ?gauge is filled with and have a fully compensated valve with ?a bladder.?2.? How about using just ?a normal scuba gauge which will probably be perfectly ?fine.? But, just make a small adapter that screws onto the ?gauge and has only a tiny little orifice to allow the input ?air.? That way if the gauge did ever fail, it would only ?bleed out air slowly and you'd have time to blow ?tanks.? If you are using a scuba 1st stage and piping from ?the HP port (I assume your not and are plumbing straight ?into tanks) then the scuba HP already has this small hole ?for the same reason.?Also, it would ?be easy enough to test a gauge.?? Find somewhere deep ?enough and take a fishing rod and a packed ?lunch!?Im fairly sure Emile has ?external gauges on his sub and its a 200m diver.? He could ?maybe advise??Just a thought. ?Kind Regards ?James?? ?On 21 September ?2015 at 06:51, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles ?wrote: ?Hi Alec,??? New sub ?? ?I must have missed that !??? do you have any ?details???? BTW, I received that big gage !? It's ?huge !? I hope I can get it in through the hatch !?? As ?it is designed for sea water I assume all I have to do is ?plumb it in, will salt water getting into the tubing cause ?any problems?? ?Brian ?--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org ?wrote: ?From: Alec Smyth via ?Personal_Submersibles ?To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? ?Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for ?outside viewport? ?Date: Sun, 20 Sep ?2015 23:03:02 -0400 ?I have an ?interesting thing to think about and wondered if any of the ?PSUBS brain trust might have a suggestion. ?One of the simplifications on my new ?sub is that all HP air lines are external, aside from the ?BIBS (which is normally shut off anyway). Thus, I'm ?looking for a 3,000-4,000 psi gauge to mount outside a ?viewport, like in the Pisces photo that I'll paste ?below. In case my paste doesn't come through, it is the ?one at the top of the following article:?http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/science/piloted-deep-sea-research-is-bottoming-out.html?_r=1 ?The first thing that came to mind ?was to use a SCUBA submersible pressure gauge, but the ?problem is these are normally 1 atm dry enclosures of ?limited depth rating. There is generally little information ?posted about how deep they'll go, but what I did find ?was mentioned 260 feet for the plastic ones and 490 feet for ?the brass variety. This is a 1,000 foot sub. ?The second idea was to use oil ?filled gauges intended for above-water use. But these ?generally have considerable bubbles in the oil, are not very ?good at keeping the oil inside, and have other hardware not ?intended to live long in sea water. ?Any suggestions would be most ?welcome! ?Thanks, ?Alec? ?--089e0115ebd0a0d2500520391e8b--_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?-----Inline Attachment Follows----- ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 21 20:30:29 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 20:30:29 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? In-Reply-To: <1442880562.77359.YahooMailBasic@web161404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1442880562.77359.YahooMailBasic@web161404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <13BFABEF-AAF2-4330-A677-6B6AE8B7BC37@gmail.com> Light from inside, it'll be right up against the window. > On Sep 21, 2015, at 8:09 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > What about illumination ? > > Pete > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 9/21/15, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside viewport? > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Date: Monday, September 21, 2015, 6:35 PM > > It would > go outside one of the CT viewports. Specifically, the one > that looks back toward the stern and is therefore seldom > used. The tank pressure is something I normally look at just > once before a dive. You want to be able to see it if you > want to, but it's not a frequent-use item I would put > right in front of the pilot where real estate is most > precious. > So far I > still haven't located a liquid filled SPG. The one > Stephen suggested is for sale in Germany but I haven't > located it here yet. > > Thanks, > Alec > On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at > 7:08 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Alec, > Where are you thinking of mounting the gauges ? Outside one > of the conn viewports ? Outside the dome ? Or 2 sets for one > each ? > > > > Pete > > -------------------------------------------- > > On Mon, 9/21/15, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for outside > viewport? > > To: "Personal > Submersibles General Discussion" > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2015, 8:34 AM > > > > Exactly. > > The valves to blow ballast are outside and operated via > > through-hulls. > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at > > 8:57 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > >1) I > > have a bunch of oil filled gauges lying around, but if > they > > are left in any position other than with the rubber caps > at > > the top, they leak all over the place. The shelf they > live > > on is covered with oil, so I'm just not confident > they > > will >keep the oil inside in the > > field. Yes, I suppose so. The ones > > I have drip. I thought i'd sprung a minor hull leak > at > > first... >2) Yes, > > SCUBA tank gauges have a tiny orifice in their hose > fittings > > for just that purpose, to prevent a broken instrument > from > > emptying your tank too quickly. That is good and I plan > to > > use it on the sub as well. However, the problem >> still > > persists that SCUBA gauges can only be taken to under > 500 > > feet. I came across tech diver accounts of gauge issues > such > > as the plastic faces buckling and pinning the needle, or > the > > whole enclosure imploding at about 400 > > >feet. oh. Are you not having > > the HP lines inside the sub at all? Controlling the > air > > with a through hull? > > RegardsJames > > On 21 September 2015 at > > 13:20, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > Hi James, > > 1) I > > have a bunch of oil filled gauges lying around, but if > they > > are left in any position other than with the rubber caps > at > > the top, they leak all over the place. The shelf they > live > > on is covered with oil, so I'm just not confident > they > > will keep the oil inside in the field. > > 2) Yes, SCUBA tank gauges have a > > tiny orifice in their hose fittings for just that > purpose, > > to prevent a broken instrument from emptying your tank > too > > quickly. That is good and I plan to use it on the sub > as > > well. However, the problem still persists that SCUBA > gauges > > can only be taken to under 500 feet. I came across tech > > diver accounts of gauge issues such as the plastic > faces > > buckling and pinning the needle, or the whole enclosure > > imploding at about 400 feet. > > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at > > 5:03 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > Hi Alec, I have a > > couple of thoughts. 1. The > > gauges I have are chemical protected, so they have an > oil > > filled diaphragm separating the inlet line from the > gauge > > internals. Then there is a small vent hole at the top > of > > the gauge. You could attach a rubber hose\bladder > to > > this vent hole, top it up with glycerine or whatever > the > > gauge is filled with and have a fully compensated valve > with > > a bladder. 2. How about using just > > a normal scuba gauge which will probably be perfectly > > fine. But, just make a small adapter that screws onto > the > > gauge and has only a tiny little orifice to allow the > input > > air. That way if the gauge did ever fail, it would > only > > bleed out air slowly and you'd have time to blow > > tanks. If you are using a scuba 1st stage and piping > from > > the HP port (I assume your not and are plumbing > straight > > into tanks) then the scuba HP already has this small > hole > > for the same reason. Also, it would > > be easy enough to test a gauge. Find somewhere deep > > enough and take a fishing rod and a packed > > lunch! Im fairly sure Emile has > > external gauges on his sub and its a 200m diver. He > could > > maybe advise? Just a thought. > > Kind Regards > > James > > On 21 September > > 2015 at 06:51, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > Hi Alec, New sub ? > > I must have missed that ! do you have any > > details? BTW, I received that big gage ! > It's > > huge ! I hope I can get it in through the hatch ! > As > > it is designed for sea water I assume all I have to do > is > > plumb it in, will salt water getting into the tubing > cause > > any problems? Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > > > From: Alec Smyth via > > Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gauge for > > outside viewport? > > Date: Sun, 20 Sep > > 2015 23:03:02 -0400 > > > > I have an > > interesting thing to think about and wondered if any of > the > > PSUBS brain trust might have a suggestion. > > One of the simplifications on my new > > sub is that all HP air lines are external, aside from > the > > BIBS (which is normally shut off anyway). Thus, I'm > > looking for a 3,000-4,000 psi gauge to mount outside a > > viewport, like in the Pisces photo that I'll paste > > below. In case my paste doesn't come through, it is > the > > one at the top of the following article: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/science/piloted-deep-sea-research-is-bottoming-out.html?_r=1 > > The first thing that came to mind > > was to use a SCUBA submersible pressure gauge, but the > > problem is these are normally 1 atm dry enclosures of > > limited depth rating. There is generally little > information > > posted about how deep they'll go, but what I did > find > > was mentioned 260 feet for the plastic ones and 490 feet > for > > the brass variety. This is a 1,000 foot sub. > > The second idea was to use oil > > filled gauges intended for above-water use. But these > > generally have considerable bubbles in the oil, are not > very > > good at keeping the oil inside, and have other hardware > not > > intended to live long in sea water. > > Any suggestions would be most > > welcome! > > > > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > > > > > > > --089e0115ebd0a0d2500520391e8b--_______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 22 04:53:53 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 09:53:53 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub hot water bottle. In-Reply-To: <1319941445.1084279.1442865955427.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1319941445.1084279.1442865955427.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, Interesting idea. Looks good. I might put that on my list of winter modifications. Agree, the water bottle looks a bit amateur, but I think it will be ok and i'll hide it out of the way. James On 21 September 2015 at 21:05, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, > Cliff is using this regulator as a compensating device. > > http://ph.parker.com/us/en/stainless-steel-pressure-regulator-pr354-pr364-series-miniature > I intend to use it also. You attach it to your air line & dial in your > required overpressure. > It has a hole in the handle spindle that enables the regulator to keep the > set pressure above ambient & also exhaust any over pressure as you ascend. > The idea is to mount it with the handwheel facing down to avoid any water > getting in the system, > & additionally as a caution run a tube down off it. > You can either fill your motor with oil; in which case any oil expansion > can run up the length of > tubing from the regulator to the motor, or just air compensate. > Untried apart from one dive by Cliff. > Looks more proffesional than a hot water bottle:) > Cheers Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 22, 2015 1:31 AM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub hot water bottle. > > This is my new bladder for the aft motor. The old one was relying on the > fuel bulb to act as the bladder, but I had the should provide a much better > bladder. > > The small wheelbarrow inner tube was an alternative idea. > > Regards > James > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 76186 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 22 10:53:32 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 15:53:32 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub hot water bottle. In-Reply-To: References: <1319941445.1084279.1442865955427.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, I was just looking at that regulator. It has a max inlet pressure of 20 bar. Unless im missing something isn't a normal scuba regulator a better option? James On 22 September 2015 at 09:53, James Frankland wrote: > Hi Alan, > > Interesting idea. Looks good. I might put that on my list of winter > modifications. > > Agree, the water bottle looks a bit amateur, but I think it will be ok and > i'll hide it out of the way. > > James > > On 21 September 2015 at 21:05, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> James, >> Cliff is using this regulator as a compensating device. >> >> http://ph.parker.com/us/en/stainless-steel-pressure-regulator-pr354-pr364-series-miniature >> I intend to use it also. You attach it to your air line & dial in your >> required overpressure. >> It has a hole in the handle spindle that enables the regulator to keep the >> set pressure above ambient & also exhaust any over pressure as you ascend. >> The idea is to mount it with the handwheel facing down to avoid any water >> getting in the system, >> & additionally as a caution run a tube down off it. >> You can either fill your motor with oil; in which case any oil expansion >> can run up the length of >> tubing from the regulator to the motor, or just air compensate. >> Untried apart from one dive by Cliff. >> Looks more proffesional than a hot water bottle:) >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 22, 2015 1:31 AM >> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub hot water bottle. >> >> This is my new bladder for the aft motor. The old one was relying on the >> fuel bulb to act as the bladder, but I had the should provide a much better >> bladder. >> >> The small wheelbarrow inner tube was an alternative idea. >> >> Regards >> James >> ? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 76186 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 22 14:42:35 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 11:42:35 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep test Message-ID: <1442947355.24469.YahooMailMobile@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Just driving home from my deep test to 800 feet with my pod. All went perfect, those mig welds held up just fine. Wish I could have found deeper water, I had enough line for 1000 feet. Also the hatch is only held on with vacuum for the last few days. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 22 15:13:05 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 15:13:05 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep test In-Reply-To: <1442947355.24469.YahooMailMobile@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1442947355.24469.YahooMailMobile@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Congrats! Did you test the whole sub with the escape pod, or just the pod standalone? Best, Alec On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 2:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Just driving home from my deep test to 800 feet with my pod. All went > perfect, those mig welds held up just fine. Wish I could have found deeper > water, I had enough line for 1000 feet. Also the hatch is only held on with > vacuum for the last few days. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 22 15:35:33 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 19:35:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub hot water bottle. In-Reply-To: References: <1319941445.1084279.1442865955427.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <332605709.1708204.1442950533270.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi James,firstly, if you did go with the pr364, you need to buy the one with the relieving option.This relieves any overpressure that you will experience as you ascend & itkeeps the regulator at the set pressure above ambient.You would have a first stage regulator either on the tank or on the line to the regulators& that will give 130 psi above ambient. If you go to 500ft you will have 130 + 250 = 380psiwhich is 80psi more than it is rated for. But as the housing is under external pressure, itwill only really see the 130psi above ambient.Yes you could use a second stage regulator. I use octopus regulators on my ambient sub.They are cheaper & not so sensitive that they free-flow.I place them as low as possible as, if they are mounted high they won't give an overpressure.I also modified the exhaust valves by putting plastic tubes off them, so that the valve seals don'thave the oportunity of letting water in when they open. Another psubber had thought he was gettinga bit of water in the motor because of these valves.? ?With the pr364 you can dial in an overpressure. Most commercial compensating devices Ihave seen have an overpressure of about 4-5psi.Cheers Alan From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub hot water bottle. Hi Alan,I was just looking at that regulator.? It has a max inlet pressure of 20 bar.? ?Unless im missing something isn't a normal scuba regulator a better option??James On 22 September 2015 at 09:53, James Frankland wrote: Hi Alan,?Interesting idea.? Looks good.? I might put that on my list of winter modifications.?Agree, the water bottle looks a bit amateur, but I think it will be ok and i'll hide it out of the way.? ?James On 21 September 2015 at 21:05, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James,Cliff is using this regulator as a compensating device.http://ph.parker.com/us/en/stainless-steel-pressure-regulator-pr354-pr364-series-miniature I intend to use it also. You attach it to your air line & dial in your required overpressure.It has a hole in the handle spindle that enables the regulator to keep theset pressure above ambient & also exhaust any over pressure as you ascend.The idea is to mount it with the handwheel facing down to avoid any water getting in the system,& additionally as a caution run a tube down off it.You can either fill your motor with oil; in which case any oil expansion can run up the length oftubing from the regulator to the motor, or just air compensate.Untried apart from one dive by Cliff.Looks more proffesional than a hot water bottle:)Cheers Alan From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2015 1:31 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub hot water bottle. This is my new bladder for the aft motor.? The old one was relying on the fuel bulb to act as the bladder, but I had the should?provide a much better bladder. The small wheelbarrow inner tube was an alternative idea.? ?RegardsJames ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 22 15:37:40 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 19:37:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep test In-Reply-To: <1442947355.24469.YahooMailMobile@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1442947355.24469.YahooMailMobile@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <11289187.1671861.1442950660795.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Congratulations Hank,you will be looking forward to the situation where youget trapped, so you can try it out for real:)Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 6:42 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep test | Just driving home from my deep test to 800 feet with my pod. All went perfect, those mig welds held up just fine. Wish I could have found deeper water, I had enough line for 1000 feet. Also the hatch is only held on with vacuum for the last few days. Hank | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 22 15:43:33 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 19:43:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub hot water bottle. In-Reply-To: References: <1319941445.1084279.1442865955427.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1561041194.1693471.1442951014032.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> James,have attached a diagram of it, in case it helps.Alan From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub hot water bottle. Hi Alan,I was just looking at that regulator.? It has a max inlet pressure of 20 bar.? ?Unless im missing something isn't a normal scuba regulator a better option??James On 22 September 2015 at 09:53, James Frankland wrote: Hi Alan,?Interesting idea.? Looks good.? I might put that on my list of winter modifications.?Agree, the water bottle looks a bit amateur, but I think it will be ok and i'll hide it out of the way.? ?James On 21 September 2015 at 21:05, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James,Cliff is using this regulator as a compensating device.http://ph.parker.com/us/en/stainless-steel-pressure-regulator-pr354-pr364-series-miniature I intend to use it also. You attach it to your air line & dial in your required overpressure.It has a hole in the handle spindle that enables the regulator to keep theset pressure above ambient & also exhaust any over pressure as you ascend.The idea is to mount it with the handwheel facing down to avoid any water getting in the system,& additionally as a caution run a tube down off it.You can either fill your motor with oil; in which case any oil expansion can run up the length oftubing from the regulator to the motor, or just air compensate.Untried apart from one dive by Cliff.Looks more proffesional than a hot water bottle:)Cheers Alan From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2015 1:31 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub hot water bottle. This is my new bladder for the aft motor.? The old one was relying on the fuel bulb to act as the bladder, but I had the should?provide a much better bladder. The small wheelbarrow inner tube was an alternative idea.? ?RegardsJames ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PR364 Regulator.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 118737 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 22 19:29:16 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 23:29:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1179836241.1894712.1442964557074.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks' guysAlan, I hope I never need the pod and I hope it is a waste of time, ?:-) Alec, I just tested the pod, I want to be sure it is good before I cut a hole in Gamma.Hank On Tuesday, September 22, 2015 5:26 PM, hank pronk wrote: From: mp13 at live.ca To: hankpronk at live.ca Subject: Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 23:20:30 +0000 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0195.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 12989 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 22 19:39:46 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 23:39:46 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep test In-Reply-To: <11289187.1671861.1442950660795.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1442947355.24469.YahooMailMobile@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <11289187.1671861.1442950660795.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Congrats Hank. Pretty cool project. On Tue, Sep 22, 2015, 12:41 PM Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Congratulations Hank, > you will be looking forward to the situation where you > get trapped, so you can try it out for real:) > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* personal_submersibles > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 23, 2015 6:42 AM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep test > > Just driving home from my deep test to 800 feet with my pod. All went > perfect, those mig welds held up just fine. Wish I could have found deeper > water, I had enough line for 1000 feet. Also the hatch is only held on with > vacuum for the last few days. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 23 04:48:07 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 09:48:07 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub hot water bottle. In-Reply-To: <1561041194.1693471.1442951014032.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1319941445.1084279.1442865955427.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1561041194.1693471.1442951014032.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: That's really helpful Alan thanks. I've put this in my saved docs folder. Im still going to use oil for now but then when it gets to winter I might change it. I think I can eek out a tiny bit more power with an air compensated motor, plus I find it quite a hastle filling and emptying the aft motor as its really awkward to get at. Anyway, thanks again. James On 22 September 2015 at 20:43, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, > have attached a diagram of it, in case it helps. > Alan > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 23, 2015 2:53 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub hot water bottle. > > Hi Alan, > I was just looking at that regulator. It has a max inlet pressure of 20 > bar. > > Unless im missing something isn't a normal scuba regulator a better option? > > James > > > > On 22 September 2015 at 09:53, James Frankland < > jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com> wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > Interesting idea. Looks good. I might put that on my list of winter > modifications. > > Agree, the water bottle looks a bit amateur, but I think it will be ok and > i'll hide it out of the way. > > James > > On 21 September 2015 at 21:05, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > James, > Cliff is using this regulator as a compensating device. > > http://ph.parker.com/us/en/stainless-steel-pressure-regulator-pr354-pr364-series-miniature > I intend to use it also. You attach it to your air line & dial in your > required overpressure. > It has a hole in the handle spindle that enables the regulator to keep the > set pressure above ambient & also exhaust any over pressure as you ascend. > The idea is to mount it with the handwheel facing down to avoid any water > getting in the system, > & additionally as a caution run a tube down off it. > You can either fill your motor with oil; in which case any oil expansion > can run up the length of > tubing from the regulator to the motor, or just air compensate. > Untried apart from one dive by Cliff. > Looks more proffesional than a hot water bottle:) > Cheers Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 22, 2015 1:31 AM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub hot water bottle. > > This is my new bladder for the aft motor. The old one was relying on the > fuel bulb to act as the bladder, but I had the should provide a much better > bladder. > > The small wheelbarrow inner tube was an alternative idea. > > Regards > James > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 23 12:19:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 17:19:54 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep test In-Reply-To: References: <1442947355.24469.YahooMailMobile@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <11289187.1671861.1442950660795.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Looks great Hank. Such a genius idea. Can you post some more pics if you have any? Thanks James On 23 September 2015 at 00:39, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Congrats Hank. Pretty cool project. > > On Tue, Sep 22, 2015, 12:41 PM Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Congratulations Hank, >> you will be looking forward to the situation where you >> get trapped, so you can try it out for real:) >> Alan >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* personal_submersibles >> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 23, 2015 6:42 AM >> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep test >> >> Just driving home from my deep test to 800 feet with my pod. All went >> perfect, those mig welds held up just fine. Wish I could have found deeper >> water, I had enough line for 1000 feet. Also the hatch is only held on with >> vacuum for the last few days. >> Hank >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 23 13:05:28 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 17:05:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1604719341.382763.1443027928502.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thank You David and James,James, I posted a slide show on youtube, it is the second slide show, the first was a test :-) under Hank PronkI am taking Gamma off the trailer today to start the process of installing the pod. ?I will not say what I have to do to spare Vance shedding a tear. ?I to have trouble with it. ?Pity I could not sell it and build from scratch, but thats the way it goes. ?Hank On Wednesday, September 23, 2015 10:20 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Looks great Hank.? Such a genius idea.? Can you post some more pics if you have any? ThanksJames On 23 September 2015 at 00:39, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Congrats Hank. Pretty cool project. On Tue, Sep 22, 2015, 12:41 PM?Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Congratulations Hank,you will be looking forward to the situation where youget trapped, so you can try it out for real:)Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 6:42 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep test | Just driving home from my deep test to 800 feet with my pod. All went perfect, those mig welds held up just fine. Wish I could have found deeper water, I had enough line for 1000 feet. Also the hatch is only held on with vacuum for the last few days. Hank | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 23 13:39:12 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 13:39:12 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep test In-Reply-To: <1604719341.382763.1443027928502.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1604719341.382763.1443027928502.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, when you cut open the hull, what is the land for this sphere going to look like? Are you welding on a big flange or something? Just curious, as you need something to resist the sphere squeezing the opening to a larger diameter and also something to bolt onto. Best, Alec On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 1:05 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thank You David and James, > James, I posted a slide show on youtube, it is the second slide show, the > first was a test :-) under Hank Pronk > I am taking Gamma off the trailer today to start the process of installing > the pod. I will not say what I have to do to spare Vance shedding a tear. > I to have trouble with it. Pity I could not sell it and build from > scratch, but thats the way it goes. > Hank > > > > > On Wednesday, September 23, 2015 10:20 AM, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Looks great Hank. Such a genius idea. Can you post some more pics if you > have any? > Thanks > James > > On 23 September 2015 at 00:39, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Congrats Hank. Pretty cool project. > > On Tue, Sep 22, 2015, 12:41 PM Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Congratulations Hank, > you will be looking forward to the situation where you > get trapped, so you can try it out for real:) > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* personal_submersibles > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 23, 2015 6:42 AM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep test > > Just driving home from my deep test to 800 feet with my pod. All went > perfect, those mig welds held up just fine. Wish I could have found deeper > water, I had enough line for 1000 feet. Also the hatch is only held on with > vacuum for the last few days. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 23 13:50:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 17:50:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1006937069.412069.1443030654931.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,I have a video on youtube showing the ring being machined. ?That is the land for the pod as well as reinforcing for the hull. ?The ring is 2in thick 26in OD and 20in ID ?It is that size because that is what my lathe can handle :-)Hank On Wednesday, September 23, 2015 11:39 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, when you cut open the hull, what is the land for this sphere going to look like? Are you welding on a big flange or something? Just curious, as you need something to resist the sphere squeezing the opening to a larger diameter and also something to bolt onto. Best, Alec On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 1:05 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thank You David and James,James, I posted a slide show on youtube, it is the second slide show, the first was a test :-) under Hank PronkI am taking Gamma off the trailer today to start the process of installing the pod.? I will not say what I have to do to spare Vance shedding a tear.? I to have trouble with it.? Pity I could not sell it and build from scratch, but thats the way it goes. ?Hank On Wednesday, September 23, 2015 10:20 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Looks great Hank.? Such a genius idea.? Can you post some more pics if you have any? ThanksJames On 23 September 2015 at 00:39, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Congrats Hank. Pretty cool project. On Tue, Sep 22, 2015, 12:41 PM?Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Congratulations Hank,you will be looking forward to the situation where youget trapped, so you can try it out for real:)Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 6:42 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep test | Just driving home from my deep test to 800 feet with my pod. All went perfect, those mig welds held up just fine. Wish I could have found deeper water, I had enough line for 1000 feet. Also the hatch is only held on with vacuum for the last few days. Hank | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 23 13:53:53 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 17:53:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1401235111.391846.1443030833265.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,?Here is a pic of the ring sitting on the podHank On Wednesday, September 23, 2015 11:52 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0114.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18065 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 23 13:58:13 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 17:58:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <349154511.404958.1443031093476.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,Here is the ring in the lathe,?Hank On Wednesday, September 23, 2015 11:57 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0101.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18639 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 23 14:19:39 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 14:19:39 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <1401235111.391846.1443030833265.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1401235111.391846.1443030833265.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: So you have two rings, one on the sub and the other on the pod? Very nice, looks like you didn't skimp with the material - that is some ring. Best, Alec On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 1:53 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, > Here is a pic of the ring sitting on the pod > Hank > > > On Wednesday, September 23, 2015 11:52 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0114.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18065 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 23 14:36:31 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 18:36:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub hot water bottle. In-Reply-To: References: <1319941445.1084279.1442865955427.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1561041194.1693471.1442951014032.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1864812113.442639.1443033391048.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> James,you could use this regulator for either air or oil.Just make sure there is a long enough tube run from the regulator to the motor,so that no oil escapes if it expands too much.I haven't got one of these regulators yet; but Cliff is using one.Cheers Alan From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 8:48 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub hot water bottle. That's really helpful Alan thanks.? I've put this in my saved docs folder.? Im still going to use oil for now but then when it gets to winter I might change it.?? I think I can eek out a tiny bit more power with an air compensated motor, plus I find it quite a hastle filling and emptying the aft motor as its really awkward to get at.?Anyway, thanks again. James On 22 September 2015 at 20:43, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James,have attached a diagram of it, in case it helps.Alan From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub hot water bottle. Hi Alan,I was just looking at that regulator.? It has a max inlet pressure of 20 bar.? ?Unless im missing something isn't a normal scuba regulator a better option??James On 22 September 2015 at 09:53, James Frankland wrote: Hi Alan,?Interesting idea.? Looks good.? I might put that on my list of winter modifications.?Agree, the water bottle looks a bit amateur, but I think it will be ok and i'll hide it out of the way.? ?James On 21 September 2015 at 21:05, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James,Cliff is using this regulator as a compensating device.http://ph.parker.com/us/en/stainless-steel-pressure-regulator-pr354-pr364-series-miniature I intend to use it also. You attach it to your air line & dial in your required overpressure.It has a hole in the handle spindle that enables the regulator to keep theset pressure above ambient & also exhaust any over pressure as you ascend.The idea is to mount it with the handwheel facing down to avoid any water getting in the system,& additionally as a caution run a tube down off it.You can either fill your motor with oil; in which case any oil expansion can run up the length oftubing from the regulator to the motor, or just air compensate.Untried apart from one dive by Cliff.Looks more proffesional than a hot water bottle:)Cheers Alan From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2015 1:31 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub hot water bottle. This is my new bladder for the aft motor.? The old one was relying on the fuel bulb to act as the bladder, but I had the should?provide a much better bladder. The small wheelbarrow inner tube was an alternative idea.? ?RegardsJames ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 25 08:17:30 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stanley Freihofer via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2015 08:17:30 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propane tank submarine Message-ID: <150046fd7f2-3604-4ed4@webprd-m82.mail.aol.com> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: YellowSubmarine.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 36303 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 25 12:48:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2015 12:48:42 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propane tank submarine In-Reply-To: <150046fd7f2-3604-4ed4@webprd-m82.mail.aol.com> References: <150046fd7f2-3604-4ed4@webprd-m82.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <56057AEA.4050002@ohiohills.com> I remember someone who had YelloSub, or something like that, made from a propane tank. It worked. I exchanged e-mail with him for a while. He's disappeared. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 25 13:56:09 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Mark via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2015 13:56:09 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propane tank submarine In-Reply-To: <56057AEA.4050002@ohiohills.com> References: <150046fd7f2-3604-4ed4@webprd-m82.mail.aol.com> <56057AEA.4050002@ohiohills.com> Message-ID: <05AACD60-142C-4BB3-B130-2BFF76B0BCD3@nc.rr.com> Here's mine. Regards, Mark Widman 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. > On Sep 25, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I remember someone who had YelloSub, or something like that, made from a propane tank. It worked. I exchanged e-mail with him for a while. He's disappeared. > > > > > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 106712 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image2.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 115118 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 25 18:04:07 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2015 22:04:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sea Technology Magazine Message-ID: <860394341.1076427.1443218647880.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi all,in case anyone is interested; I get the Sea Technology Magazine free on line.Subscription ......http://www.sea-technology.com/form_subscribe_qualfree.html?utm_source=Sept+2015+Sea+Technology+E-Book&utm_campaign=ae52c93b9f-Sept_2015_Sea_Technology_E_Book8_17_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_f891fcb2f3-ae52c93b9f-319265925Interesting articles & products.Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 25 18:37:21 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 10:37:21 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propane tank submarine In-Reply-To: <05AACD60-142C-4BB3-B130-2BFF76B0BCD3@nc.rr.com> References: <150046fd7f2-3604-4ed4@webprd-m82.mail.aol.com> <56057AEA.4050002@ohiohills.com> <05AACD60-142C-4BB3-B130-2BFF76B0BCD3@nc.rr.com> Message-ID: <5605cc4c.c45c440a.481f1.00a9@mx.google.com> Hi Mark, What depth are you rating it at? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Mark via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 26 September 2015 5:56 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propane tank submarine Here's mine. image1.JPG image2.JPG Regards, Mark Widman 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. On Sep 25, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I remember someone who had YelloSub, or something like that, made from a propane tank. It worked. I exchanged e-mail with him for a while. He's disappeared. _____ Avast logo This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 106712 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 115118 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 25 18:42:26 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 10:42:26 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propane tank submarine In-Reply-To: <05AACD60-142C-4BB3-B130-2BFF76B0BCD3@nc.rr.com> References: <150046fd7f2-3604-4ed4@webprd-m82.mail.aol.com> <56057AEA.4050002@ohiohills.com> <05AACD60-142C-4BB3-B130-2BFF76B0BCD3@nc.rr.com> Message-ID: <5605cd7c.4b79420a.43b4b.0532@mx.google.com> Mark, I am very concerned about your design for strength. Can you send me your email so I can talk off line. Regards, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Mark via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 26 September 2015 5:56 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propane tank submarine Here's mine. image1.JPG image2.JPG Regards, Mark Widman 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. On Sep 25, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I remember someone who had YelloSub, or something like that, made from a propane tank. It worked. I exchanged e-mail with him for a while. He's disappeared. _____ Avast logo This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 106712 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 115118 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 25 19:08:25 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2015 23:08:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <450199581.1208458.1443222505557.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> This is progress at the end of day two, ?it went faster than the dome conversion because I could cut the hole in the aft head from inside. ?That saved building a temporary bulk head for spark capture. ? Tomorrow I will fit the heavy ring to the head and tack in place, then I have to build a rotator for welding.HankOh ya, I am planning a fairing from the hull to the pod On Friday, September 25, 2015 5:03 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0197.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18176 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0198.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 20183 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0199.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18254 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 25 19:10:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2015 23:10:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <1374574915.1162333.1443222642124.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 25 19:13:53 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2015 23:13:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <450199581.1208458.1443222505557.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <450199581.1208458.1443222505557.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1231187697.1222763.1443222833387.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> On Friday, September 25, 2015 5:08 PM, hank pronk wrote: This is progress at the end of day two, ?it went faster than the dome conversion because I could cut the hole in the aft head from inside. ?That saved building a temporary bulk head for spark capture. ? Tomorrow I will fit the heavy ring to the head and tack in place, then I have to build a rotator for welding.HankOh ya, I am planning a fairing from the hull to the pod On Friday, September 25, 2015 5:03 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0197.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18176 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0198.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 20183 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0199.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18254 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 25 19:17:05 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2015 23:17:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1378284835.1216715.1443223025137.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,Not sure if my first ?attempt worked, this is progress at the end of day two. ?It is going very well.Hank ? On Friday, September 25, 2015 5:15 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0197.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18176 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0198.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 20183 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0199.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18254 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 25 19:45:28 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2015 23:45:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <1378284835.1216715.1443223025137.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1378284835.1216715.1443223025137.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1299830274.1092411.1443224728434.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Hank,all 3 posts made it to N.Z.You are flying. Keep the pictures coming, I am looking forward to?seeing the finished product.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2015 11:17 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Hi All,Not sure if my first ?attempt worked, this is progress at the end of day two. ?It is going very well.Hank ? On Friday, September 25, 2015 5:15 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0197.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18176 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0198.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 20183 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0199.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18254 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 25 19:50:43 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 11:50:43 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <1378284835.1216715.1443223025137.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1378284835.1216715.1443223025137.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5605dd77.a644440a.e865.13d8@mx.google.com> Hank, Received 3 times. Looks very impressive. You sure don?t mess round. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 26 September 2015 11:17 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Hi All, Not sure if my first attempt worked, this is progress at the end of day two. It is going very well. Hank On Friday, September 25, 2015 5:15 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18176 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 20183 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18254 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 25 19:52:44 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Mark via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2015 19:52:44 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propane tank submarine In-Reply-To: <5605cd7c.4b79420a.43b4b.0532@mx.google.com> References: <150046fd7f2-3604-4ed4@webprd-m82.mail.aol.com> <56057AEA.4050002@ohiohills.com> <05AACD60-142C-4BB3-B130-2BFF76B0BCD3@nc.rr.com> <5605cd7c.4b79420a.43b4b.0532@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5281F7F7-A95B-4B21-84F3-771AE9A0BA9B@nc.rr.com> Hugh, Thanks for reaching out to me. I certainly value your opinion. I'm in a movie theater at the moment with my wife so I'll email more information later. We live in a 150 acre lake that averages 20' deep. There are some areas up to 50' but we don't plan to go that deep. The main hull is 3/8" thick with the observation hull and conning tower at 1/4". We know since the sub in not cylindrical that we are limited in how deep we can go. Regards, Mark Widman 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. > On Sep 25, 2015, at 6:42 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Mark, I am very concerned about your design for strength. Can you send me your email so I can talk off line. > Regards, > Hugh > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Mark via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Saturday, 26 September 2015 5:56 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propane tank submarine > > Here's mine. > > > > > > Regards, > > Mark Widman > 910-638-5229 > > Sent from iPhone. > > On Sep 25, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I remember someone who had YelloSub, or something like that, made from a propane tank. It worked. I exchanged e-mail with him for a while. He's disappeared. > > > > > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 115118 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 25 20:51:06 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 12:51:06 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propane tank submarine In-Reply-To: <5281F7F7-A95B-4B21-84F3-771AE9A0BA9B@nc.rr.com> References: <150046fd7f2-3604-4ed4@webprd-m82.mail.aol.com> <56057AEA.4050002@ohiohills.com> <05AACD60-142C-4BB3-B130-2BFF76B0BCD3@nc.rr.com> <5605cd7c.4b79420a.43b4b.0532@mx.google.com> <5281F7F7-A95B-4B21-84F3-771AE9A0BA9B@nc.rr.com> Message-ID: <5605eb9d.e284440a.33fde.1b53@mx.google.com> Hi Mark, My email is hfulton at q-subs.com Regards, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Mark via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 26 September 2015 11:53 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propane tank submarine Hugh, Thanks for reaching out to me. I certainly value your opinion. I'm in a movie theater at the moment with my wife so I'll email more information later. We live in a 150 acre lake that averages 20' deep. There are some areas up to 50' but we don't plan to go that deep. The main hull is 3/8" thick with the observation hull and conning tower at 1/4". We know since the sub in not cylindrical that we are limited in how deep we can go. Regards, Mark Widman 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. On Sep 25, 2015, at 6:42 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Mark, I am very concerned about your design for strength. Can you send me your email so I can talk off line. Regards, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Mark via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 26 September 2015 5:56 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propane tank submarine Here's mine. image2.JPG Regards, Mark Widman 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. On Sep 25, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I remember someone who had YelloSub, or something like that, made from a propane tank. It worked. I exchanged e-mail with him for a while. He's disappeared. _____ Avast logo This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 115118 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 25 21:57:43 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2015 21:57:43 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <1378284835.1216715.1443223025137.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1378284835.1216715.1443223025137.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2E487B50-36CC-48FE-9DF6-72BF61E0D89A@gmail.com> Too cool! Looks like a Soyuz spacecraft! Alec > On Sep 25, 2015, at 7:17 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > Not sure if my first attempt worked, this is progress at the end of day two. It is going very well. > Hank > > > On Friday, September 25, 2015 5:15 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 25 22:42:03 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 02:42:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <2E487B50-36CC-48FE-9DF6-72BF61E0D89A@gmail.com> References: <2E487B50-36CC-48FE-9DF6-72BF61E0D89A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <875663853.1238125.1443235323801.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,I think we are starting a trend, you with your 3 floats and me with my one big float.Hank On Friday, September 25, 2015 7:57 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Too cool! Looks like a Soyuz spacecraft! Alec On Sep 25, 2015, at 7:17 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Not sure if my first ?attempt worked, this is progress at the end of day two. ?It is going very well.Hank ? On Friday, September 25, 2015 5:15 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 26 08:44:04 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 12:44:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] correction Message-ID: <2072353421.1354438.1443271444651.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,Correction, I estimated that the pod sank 800 feet based on the amount of rope left on the spool. ?It actually sank 638 feet, ?my target depth was 600 feet. ?I will be diving at 400 feet for the next season. ? ?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 26 10:45:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 07:45:54 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] correction In-Reply-To: <2072353421.1354438.1443271444651.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2072353421.1354438.1443271444651.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001c01d0f86a$0cabec80$2603c580$@telus.net> Hi Hank, What has been the max test depth of Gamma itself with the dome so far? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-26-15 5:44 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] correction Hi All, Correction, I estimated that the pod sank 800 feet based on the amount of rope left on the spool. It actually sank 638 feet, my target depth was 600 feet. I will be diving at 400 feet for the next season. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 26 10:59:20 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 14:59:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] correction In-Reply-To: <001c01d0f86a$0cabec80$2603c580$@telus.net> References: <001c01d0f86a$0cabec80$2603c580$@telus.net> Message-ID: <629410647.1403020.1443279560924.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Tim,I have only been to 105 or 110 with you. ?I will deep test Gamma with the pod as soon as it is back together.Hank On Saturday, September 26, 2015 8:46 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv9484501715 #yiv9484501715 -- _filtered #yiv9484501715 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv9484501715 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv9484501715 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv9484501715 #yiv9484501715 p.yiv9484501715MsoNormal, #yiv9484501715 li.yiv9484501715MsoNormal, #yiv9484501715 div.yiv9484501715MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv9484501715 a:link, #yiv9484501715 span.yiv9484501715MsoHyperlink {color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv9484501715 a:visited, #yiv9484501715 span.yiv9484501715MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv9484501715 span.yiv9484501715EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv9484501715 .yiv9484501715MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv9484501715 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv9484501715 div.yiv9484501715WordSection1 {}#yiv9484501715 Hi Hank, ?What has been the max test depth of Gamma itself with the dome so far? ?Tim ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-26-15 5:44 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] correction ?Hi All,Correction, I estimated that the pod sank 800 feet based on the amount of rope left on the spool. ?It actually sank 638 feet, ?my target depth was 600 feet. ?I will be diving at 400 feet for the next season. ? ?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 26 11:46:12 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 08:46:12 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] correction In-Reply-To: <629410647.1403020.1443279560924.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <001c01d0f86a$0cabec80$2603c580$@telus.net> <629410647.1403020.1443279560924.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002f01d0f872$79e62330$6db26990$@telus.net> Hi Hank, Sounds like a good way to go. Is your plan to restrict manned dives to 66% of the maximum unmanned test dive? This would seem to be a good policy in general. Is there a design fatigue life on the hull (i.e. so many cycles before overhaul)? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-26-15 7:59 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] correction Hi Tim, I have only been to 105 or 110 with you. I will deep test Gamma with the pod as soon as it is back together. Hank On Saturday, September 26, 2015 8:46 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Hank, What has been the max test depth of Gamma itself with the dome so far? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-26-15 5:44 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] correction Hi All, Correction, I estimated that the pod sank 800 feet based on the amount of rope left on the spool. It actually sank 638 feet, my target depth was 600 feet. I will be diving at 400 feet for the next season. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 26 12:29:16 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 16:29:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] correction In-Reply-To: <002f01d0f872$79e62330$6db26990$@telus.net> References: <002f01d0f872$79e62330$6db26990$@telus.net> Message-ID: <979396798.1415939.1443284956682.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Tim,Yes, I want a ?safety margin. ? As far as I know there is no limit to number of cycles on a steel pressure vessel. ?That would be a Sean question. ?Hank On Saturday, September 26, 2015 9:46 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv5503147854 #yiv5503147854 -- _filtered #yiv5503147854 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5503147854 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5503147854 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv5503147854 #yiv5503147854 p.yiv5503147854MsoNormal, #yiv5503147854 li.yiv5503147854MsoNormal, #yiv5503147854 div.yiv5503147854MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv5503147854 a:link, #yiv5503147854 span.yiv5503147854MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5503147854 a:visited, #yiv5503147854 span.yiv5503147854MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5503147854 p.yiv5503147854msonormal, #yiv5503147854 li.yiv5503147854msonormal, #yiv5503147854 div.yiv5503147854msonormal {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv5503147854 p.yiv5503147854msochpdefault, #yiv5503147854 li.yiv5503147854msochpdefault, #yiv5503147854 div.yiv5503147854msochpdefault {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv5503147854 span.yiv5503147854msohyperlink {}#yiv5503147854 span.yiv5503147854msohyperlinkfollowed {}#yiv5503147854 span.yiv5503147854emailstyle17 {}#yiv5503147854 p.yiv5503147854msonormal1, #yiv5503147854 li.yiv5503147854msonormal1, #yiv5503147854 div.yiv5503147854msonormal1 {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv5503147854 span.yiv5503147854msohyperlink1 {color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5503147854 span.yiv5503147854msohyperlinkfollowed1 {color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5503147854 span.yiv5503147854emailstyle171 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv5503147854 p.yiv5503147854msochpdefault1, #yiv5503147854 li.yiv5503147854msochpdefault1, #yiv5503147854 div.yiv5503147854msochpdefault1 {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv5503147854 span.yiv5503147854EmailStyle27 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv5503147854 .yiv5503147854MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv5503147854 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv5503147854 div.yiv5503147854WordSection1 {}#yiv5503147854 Hi Hank,Sounds like a good way to go.? Is your plan to restrict manned dives to 66% of the maximum unmanned test dive?? This would seem to be a good policy in general.? Is there a design fatigue life on the hull (i.e. so many cycles before overhaul)?Tim ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-26-15 7:59 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] correction ?Hi Tim,I have only been to 105 or 110 with you. ?I will deep test Gamma with the pod as soon as it is back together.Hank ? ?On Saturday, September 26, 2015 8:46 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Hi Hank,?What has been the max test depth of Gamma itself with the dome so far??Tim?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-26-15 5:44 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] correction?Hi All,Correction, I estimated that the pod sank 800 feet based on the amount of rope left on the spool. ?It actually sank 638 feet, ?my target depth was 600 feet. ?I will be diving at 400 feet for the next season. ? ?Hank ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 26 13:45:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 17:45:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <913650900.1410763.1443289542282.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Gamma mock up On Saturday, September 26, 2015 11:43 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0200.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17654 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 26 13:50:55 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 17:50:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <493624000.1391769.1443289855678.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Here is Gamma with the pod in place, the big ring is fitted and ready to weld in. ?The ballast tanks can be lengthened?giving ?me more free board for shallower launches. ?I can lengthen them and put the vertical thrusters between them still. ?The Perry thrusters will be mounted under the front ballast tanks on jettisoning mounts. ?I need to figure out how to make a cowl to go from the hull to the pod that will to interfere with the pod releasing from the sub.Hank On Saturday, September 26, 2015 11:44 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0201.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16842 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 26 17:03:29 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 21:03:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <493624000.1391769.1443289855678.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <493624000.1391769.1443289855678.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2072595770.1338942.1443301409663.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Hank,looking really good.A thought I had was that you could put a downward facing viewport in yourescape pod so you could take an extra person. Make up a stretcher across the?pod entrance so they can lie across it & look down. Or put a small person in itwith a side view port.?If you had an appropriately placed view port you could see out when you escape& hit the surface. Also you could signal out it with a torch.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 6:50 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Here is Gamma with the pod in place, the big ring is fitted and ready to weld in. ?The ballast tanks can be lengthened?giving ?me more free board for shallower launches. ?I can lengthen them and put the vertical thrusters between them still. ?The Perry thrusters will be mounted under the front ballast tanks on jettisoning mounts. ?I need to figure out how to make a cowl to go from the hull to the pod that will to interfere with the pod releasing from the sub.Hank On Saturday, September 26, 2015 11:44 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0201.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16842 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 26 17:19:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 21:19:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <2072595770.1338942.1443301409663.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2072595770.1338942.1443301409663.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1979175740.1465401.1443302394436.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Alan,The hatch has a 6 inch viewport so I can see the surface and the sub as I am leaving for the surface.Hank On Saturday, September 26, 2015 3:06 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank,looking really good.A thought I had was that you could put a downward facing viewport in yourescape pod so you could take an extra person. Make up a stretcher across the?pod entrance so they can lie across it & look down. Or put a small person in itwith a side view port.?If you had an appropriately placed view port you could see out when you escape& hit the surface. Also you could signal out it with a torch.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 6:50 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Here is Gamma with the pod in place, the big ring is fitted and ready to weld in. ?The ballast tanks can be lengthened?giving ?me more free board for shallower launches. ?I can lengthen them and put the vertical thrusters between them still. ?The Perry thrusters will be mounted under the front ballast tanks on jettisoning mounts. ?I need to figure out how to make a cowl to go from the hull to the pod that will to interfere with the pod releasing from the sub.Hank On Saturday, September 26, 2015 11:44 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0201.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16842 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 26 21:30:23 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 18:30:23 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <1979175740.1465401.1443302394436.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2072595770.1338942.1443301409663.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1979175740.1465401.1443302394436.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007801d0f8c4$15693800$403ba800$@telus.net> Looks good, Hank. Alan's thought about the using the pod as further crew accommodation sounds good. But it looks like only one or maybe two crew members will fit in it during escape. I trust that the pod is of sufficient releasable ballast weight to account for its buoyancy that far aft. Is such ballast even necessary? Perhaps you could mould the fairing around and attached to the pod, but also fitting snug against the main hull. Upon release the pod along with the fairing detaches from the hull, and the fairing is then jettisoned from the pod by the pilot using the same method that the pod was jettisoned from the main hull. Thoughts? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-26-15 2:20 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Hi Alan, The hatch has a 6 inch viewport so I can see the surface and the sub as I am leaving for the surface. Hank On Saturday, September 26, 2015 3:06 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Hank, looking really good. A thought I had was that you could put a downward facing viewport in your escape pod so you could take an extra person. Make up a stretcher across the pod entrance so they can lie across it & look down. Or put a small person in it with a side view port. If you had an appropriately placed view port you could see out when you escape & hit the surface. Also you could signal out it with a torch. Alan _____ From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 6:50 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Here is Gamma with the pod in place, the big ring is fitted and ready to weld in. The ballast tanks can be lengthened giving me more free board for shallower launches. I can lengthen them and put the vertical thrusters between them still. The Perry thrusters will be mounted under the front ballast tanks on jettisoning mounts. I need to figure out how to make a cowl to go from the hull to the pod that will to interfere with the pod releasing from the sub. Hank On Saturday, September 26, 2015 11:44 AM, xxx xxxxx > wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16842 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 26 22:05:40 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 20:05:40 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] correction In-Reply-To: <979396798.1415939.1443284956682.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <002f01d0f872$79e62330$6db26990$@telus.net> <979396798.1415939.1443284956682.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <75a955e7-923a-495d-8066-5a3844954f3e@email.android.com> While steels have an endurance limit (stress limit below which fatigue failure is highly unlikely to occur), the fatigue endurance limit of the base material is less relevant than the presence of welds and geometric stress concentrations, which impose their own limits due to localized stress concentrations and crack initiation sites. Characterizing the fatigue life of welded structures was a core focus of my job for several years, in the context of mining machinery subject to continuously variable cyclic loading. Invariably, four conclusions always popped up in these analyses: 1) Employ full-penetration welds, 2) Profile grind to eliminate stress concentrations, 3) Fully stress-relieve completed weldments with appropriate heat treatments, and 4) Replace welded construction with smoothly-sculpted castings where possible. Where submarines are concerned, design guides and common practice already address point 1, at least where the pressure hull itself is concerned. I would additionally suggest to be wary of any highly loaded appendages welded to the pressure hull where a crack initiation could possibly propagate into the pressure hull. Point 2, profile grinding, is technically prohibited on submarines, but the military does it, and the weld procedures in the commercial guidelines specify bead geometry limits that accomplish much the same thing. The intent of the prohibition is to eliminate the possibility of grinding below minimum design thickness, but if you're not certifying, I see no reason not to smooth your joints, as long as you are aware of the consequence of error. Point 3 is a great idea if you have access to equipment or a facility with these capabilities. Particularly with PSub-sized hulls, I'd look into getting quotes. Has to be done before any coatings though. Point 4 is about eliminating abrupt stress concentrations. Obviously this is complicated for a pressure hull. If I had a sub with lots of identical windows, I might look at casting their seats instead of fabricating, as smooth transitions which seamlessly integrate into the base hull are easier than 4:1 weld tapers, and create a smoother load path. As with your welds though, any such castings would have to be 100% NDT'd. All that said, the number of large stress cycles on a submarine hull over its lifetime is so low that fatigue failure is not really an issue, with the possible exception of things like skid attachments and lifting lugs which can see high stresses in the field. Even if you dive every day, that's 365 cycles a year, or maybe 10k over its lifetime. High cycle fatigue generally starts to show up one order of magnitude higher. One thing you should be aware of is that fatigue damage varies linearly with number of cycles, but with the cube of the applied stress. A single cycle at 3 MPa does the same amount of fatigue damage as twenty-seven cycles at 1 MPa! Thus, the fatigue endurance of your boat is dictated predominately by only its deepest dives. This is a counterintuitive result which, interestingly, governs a lot of aircraft design. The wings of large airliners experience their largest stress reversals not due to the forces on the wings in-flight, but rather to the less frequent but greater magnitude switch between flying, where the aircraft is hanging on the wings, and being on the ground, where the wings are hanging from the aircraft. Sean On September 26, 2015 10:29:16 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Tim,Yes, I want a ?safety margin. ? As far as I know there is no limit >to number of cycles on a steel pressure vessel. ?That would be a Sean >question. ?Hank > > >On Saturday, September 26, 2015 9:46 AM, T Novak via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >#yiv5503147854 #yiv5503147854 -- _filtered #yiv5503147854 >{font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered >#yiv5503147854 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5503147854 >{font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv5503147854 >#yiv5503147854 p.yiv5503147854MsoNormal, #yiv5503147854 >li.yiv5503147854MsoNormal, #yiv5503147854 div.yiv5503147854MsoNormal >{margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv5503147854 >a:link, #yiv5503147854 span.yiv5503147854MsoHyperlink >{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5503147854 a:visited, >#yiv5503147854 span.yiv5503147854MsoHyperlinkFollowed >{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5503147854 >p.yiv5503147854msonormal, #yiv5503147854 li.yiv5503147854msonormal, >#yiv5503147854 div.yiv5503147854msonormal >{margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv5503147854 >p.yiv5503147854msochpdefault, #yiv5503147854 >li.yiv5503147854msochpdefault, #yiv5503147854 >div.yiv5503147854msochpdefault >{margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv5503147854 >span.yiv5503147854msohyperlink {}#yiv5503147854 >span.yiv5503147854msohyperlinkfollowed {}#yiv5503147854 >span.yiv5503147854emailstyle17 {}#yiv5503147854 >p.yiv5503147854msonormal1, #yiv5503147854 li.yiv5503147854msonormal1, >#yiv5503147854 div.yiv5503147854msonormal1 >{margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv5503147854 >span.yiv5503147854msohyperlink1 >{color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5503147854 >span.yiv5503147854msohyperlinkfollowed1 >{color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5503147854 >span.yiv5503147854emailstyle171 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv5503147854 >p.yiv5503147854msochpdefault1, #yiv5503147854 >li.yiv5503147854msochpdefault1, #yiv5503147854 >div.yiv5503147854msochpdefault1 >{margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv5503147854 >span.yiv5503147854EmailStyle27 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv5503147854 >.yiv5503147854MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered >#yiv5503147854 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv5503147854 >div.yiv5503147854WordSection1 {}#yiv5503147854 Hi Hank,Sounds like a >good way to go.? Is your plan to restrict manned dives to 66% of the >maximum unmanned test dive?? This would seem to be a good policy in >general.? Is there a design fatigue life on the hull (i.e. so many >cycles before overhaul)?Tim ?From: Personal_Submersibles >[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank >pronk via Personal_Submersibles >Sent: September-26-15 7:59 AM >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] correction ?Hi Tim,I have only been to 105 >or 110 with you. ?I will deep test Gamma with the pod as soon as it is >back together.Hank ? ?On Saturday, September 26, 2015 8:46 AM, T Novak >via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Hi >Hank,?What has been the max test depth of Gamma itself with the dome so >far??Tim?From: Personal_Submersibles >[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank >pronk via Personal_Submersibles >Sent: September-26-15 5:44 AM >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] correction?Hi All,Correction, I estimated that >the pod sank 800 feet based on the amount of rope left on the spool. >?It actually sank 638 feet, ?my target depth was 600 feet. ?I will be >diving at 400 feet for the next season. ? ?Hank >?_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 26 22:46:05 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 02:46:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] correction In-Reply-To: <75a955e7-923a-495d-8066-5a3844954f3e@email.android.com> References: <75a955e7-923a-495d-8066-5a3844954f3e@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1369709890.1543168.1443321965136.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Sean,I read somewhere that 516-70 normalized does not require a heat treatment until the thickness exceeds something like 2 inches.?Hank On Saturday, September 26, 2015 8:06 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv0034356469 -- filtered {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}#yiv0034356469 filtered {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}#yiv0034356469 filtered {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv0034356469 p.yiv0034356469MsoNormal, #yiv0034356469 li.yiv0034356469MsoNormal, #yiv0034356469 div.yiv0034356469MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv0034356469 a:link, #yiv0034356469 span.yiv0034356469MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0034356469 a:visited, #yiv0034356469 span.yiv0034356469MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0034356469 p.yiv0034356469msonormal, #yiv0034356469 li.yiv0034356469msonormal, #yiv0034356469 div.yiv0034356469msonormal {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv0034356469 p.yiv0034356469msochpdefault, #yiv0034356469 li.yiv0034356469msochpdefault, #yiv0034356469 div.yiv0034356469msochpdefault {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv0034356469 span.yiv0034356469msohyperlink {}#yiv0034356469 span.yiv0034356469msohyperlinkfollowed {}#yiv0034356469 span.yiv0034356469emailstyle17 {}#yiv0034356469 p.yiv0034356469msonormal1, #yiv0034356469 li.yiv0034356469msonormal1, #yiv0034356469 div.yiv0034356469msonormal1 {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv0034356469 span.yiv0034356469msohyperlink1 {color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0034356469 span.yiv0034356469msohyperlinkfollowed1 {color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0034356469 span.yiv0034356469emailstyle171 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv0034356469 p.yiv0034356469msochpdefault1, #yiv0034356469 li.yiv0034356469msochpdefault1, #yiv0034356469 div.yiv0034356469msochpdefault1 {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv0034356469 span.yiv0034356469EmailStyle27 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv0034356469 .yiv0034356469MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv0034356469 filtered {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv0034356469 div.yiv0034356469WordSection1 {}#yiv0034356469 While steels have an endurance limit (stress limit below which fatigue failure is highly unlikely to occur), the fatigue endurance limit of the base material is less relevant than the presence of welds and geometric stress concentrations, which impose their own limits due to localized stress concentrations and crack initiation sites. Characterizing the fatigue life of welded structures was a core focus of my job for several years, in the context of mining machinery subject to continuously variable cyclic loading.? Invariably, four conclusions always popped up in these analyses:1) Employ full-penetration welds, 2) Profile grind to eliminate stress concentrations, 3) Fully stress-relieve completed weldments with appropriate heat treatments, and 4) Replace welded construction with smoothly-sculpted castings where possible.Where submarines are concerned, design guides and common practice already address point 1, at least where the pressure hull itself is concerned.? I would additionally suggest to be wary of any highly loaded appendages welded to the pressure hull where a crack initiation could possibly propagate into the pressure hull.? Point 2, profile grinding, is technically prohibited on submarines, but the military does it, and the weld procedures in the commercial guidelines specify bead geometry limits that accomplish much the same thing.? The intent of the prohibition is to eliminate the possibility of grinding below minimum design thickness, but if you're not certifying, I see no reason not to smooth your joints, as long as you are aware of the consequence of error.? Point 3 is a great idea if you have access to equipment or a facility with these capabilities.? Particularly with PSub-sized hulls, I'd look into getting quotes.? Has to be done! beforeany coatings though.? Point 4 is about eliminating abrupt stress concentrations. Obviously this is complicated for a pressure hull.? If I had a sub with lots of identical windows, I might look at casting their seats instead of fabricating, as smooth transitions which seamlessly integrate into the base hull are easier than 4:1 weld tapers, and create a smoother load path. As with your welds though, any such castings would have to be 100% NDT'd.All that said, the number of large stress cycles on a submarine hull over its lifetime is so low that fatigue failure is not really an issue, with the possible exception of things like skid attachments and lifting lugs which can see high stresses in the field.? Even if you dive every day, that's 365 cycles a year, or maybe 10k over its lifetime. High cycle fatigue generally starts to show up one order of magnitude higher.One thing you should be aware of is that fatigue damage varies linearly with number of cycles, but with the cube of the applied stress.? A single cycle at 3 MPa does the same amount of fatigue damage? as twenty-seven cycles at 1 MPa!? Thus, the fatigue endurance of your boat is dictated predominately by only its deepest dives.? This is a counterintuitive result which, interestingly, governs a lot of aircraft design.? The wings of large airliners experience their largest stress reversals not due to the forces on the wings in-flight, but rather to the less frequent but greater magnitude switch between flying, where the aircraft is hanging on the wings, and being on the ground, where the wings are hanging from the aircraft.Sean On September 26, 2015 10:29:16 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Tim,Yes, I want a ?safety margin. ? As far as I know there is no limit to number of cycles on a steel pressure vessel. ?That would be a Sean question. ?Hank On Saturday, September 26, 2015 9:46 AM, T Novak via Personal_Subme! rsibles wrote: Hi Hank,Sounds like a good way to go.? Is your plan to restrict manned dives to 66% of the maximum unmanned test dive?? This would seem to be a good policy in general.? Is there a design fatigue life on the hull (i.e. so many cycles before overhaul)?Tim ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-26-15 7:59 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] correction ?Hi Tim,I have only been to 105 or 110 with you. ?I will deep test Gamma with the pod as soon as it is back together.Hank ? ?On Saturday, September 26, 2015 8:46 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Hi Hank,?What has been the max test depth of Gamma itself with the dome so far??Tim?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-26-15 5:44 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] correction?Hi All,Correction, I estimated that the pod sank 800 feet based on the amount of rope left on the spool. ?It actually sank 638 feet, ?my target depth was 600 feet. ?I will be diving at 400 feet for the next season. ? ?Hank ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 26 23:47:11 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 03:47:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <007801d0f8c4$15693800$403ba800$@telus.net> References: <007801d0f8c4$15693800$403ba800$@telus.net> Message-ID: <450408793.1504044.1443325632032.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Tim,I was thinking the same thing, the cowl would be like a cone that you see on dogs around their neck :-) ?it would fit against both hulls, trapped in place so to speak. ?There is no?jettisoning ?of the pod by the pilot. ?When the internal pressure of the sub reaches ambient, the pod simply floats away. ?I could spring load the pod to give it a bit of a kick away from the sub. ?It is pretty much a one man pod, so no passengers past 100 feet. ?I was thinking about putting three 12v gam batteries in the pod as range extenders. ?I need 319 pounds to balance the pod to neutral. ?I will build a pool in the shop to get it balanced just right with me in it.Hank On Saturday, September 26, 2015 7:30 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv6695284797 #yiv6695284797 -- _filtered #yiv6695284797 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv6695284797 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv6695284797 {font-family:helveticaneue;}#yiv6695284797 #yiv6695284797 p.yiv6695284797MsoNormal, #yiv6695284797 li.yiv6695284797MsoNormal, #yiv6695284797 div.yiv6695284797MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv6695284797 a:link, #yiv6695284797 span.yiv6695284797MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6695284797 a:visited, #yiv6695284797 span.yiv6695284797MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6695284797 span.yiv6695284797EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv6695284797 .yiv6695284797MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv6695284797 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv6695284797 div.yiv6695284797WordSection1 {}#yiv6695284797 Looks good, Hank. ?Alan's thought about the using the pod as further crew accommodation sounds good.? But it looks like only one or maybe two crew members will fit in it during escape.I trust that the pod is of sufficient releasable ballast weight to account for its buoyancy that far aft.? Is such ballast even necessary? Perhaps you could mould the fairing around and attached to the pod, but also fitting snug against the main hull.? Upon release the pod along with the fairing detaches from the hull, ?and the fairing is then jettisoned from the pod by the pilot using the same method that the pod was jettisoned from the main hull.Thoughts?Tim ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-26-15 2:20 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: ?Hi Alan,The hatch has a 6 inch viewport so I can see the surface and the sub as I am leaving for the surface.Hank ? ?On Saturday, September 26, 2015 3:06 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Hi Hank,looking really good.A thought I had was that you could put a downward facing viewport in yourescape pod so you could take an extra person. Make up a stretcher across the?pod entrance so they can lie across it & look down. Or put a small person in itwith a side view port.?If you had an appropriately placed view port you could see out when you escape& hit the surface. Also you could signal out it with a torch.Alan ?From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 6:50 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: ?Here is Gamma with the pod in place, the big ring is fitted and ready to weld in. ?The ballast tanks can be lengthened?giving ?me more free board for shallower launches. ?I can lengthen them and put the vertical thrusters between them still. ?The Perry thrusters will be mounted under the front ballast tanks on jettisoning mounts. ?I need to figure out how to make a cowl to go from the hull to the pod that will to interfere with the pod releasing from the sub.Hank ?On Saturday, September 26, 2015 11:44 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 16842 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 27 10:41:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 07:41:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Message-ID: <20150927074100.F826035D@m0087791.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 27 11:06:14 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 15:06:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <20150927074100.F826035D@m0087791.ppops.net> References: <20150927074100.F826035D@m0087791.ppops.net> Message-ID: <716834551.1584958.1443366374400.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,I agree, I have a lot of work ahead of me :-) ? I am trying to get the dirty work done now while the shop doors can be open. ?I had a job cancel at the last minute so I have had a bit of time to work on it. ?I will be working full time now for the next month or so :-(Hank On Sunday, September 27, 2015 8:41 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Looks impressive Hank !?? Quite a project !?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 17:50:55 +0000 (UTC) Here is Gamma with the pod in place, the big ring is fitted and ready to weld in. ?The ballast tanks can be lengthened?giving ?me more free board for shallower launches. ?I can lengthen them and put the vertical thrusters between them still. ?The Perry thrusters will be mounted under the front ballast tanks on jettisoning mounts. ?I need to figure out how to make a cowl to go from the hull to the pod that will to interfere with the pod releasing from the sub.Hank On Saturday, September 26, 2015 11:44 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 27 11:12:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 15:12:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <716834551.1584958.1443366374400.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <716834551.1584958.1443366374400.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1616217843.1647686.1443366769122.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,How are you making out? ?any idea of a test date? ?There is a smaller depth gauge on?eBay right now that will fit through your hatch :-) ?Hank On Sunday, September 27, 2015 9:09 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian,I agree, I have a lot of work ahead of me :-) ? I am trying to get the dirty work done now while the shop doors can be open. ?I had a job cancel at the last minute so I have had a bit of time to work on it. ?I will be working full time now for the next month or so :-(Hank On Sunday, September 27, 2015 8:41 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Looks impressive Hank !?? Quite a project !?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 17:50:55 +0000 (UTC) Here is Gamma with the pod in place, the big ring is fitted and ready to weld in. ?The ballast tanks can be lengthened?giving ?me more free board for shallower launches. ?I can lengthen them and put the vertical thrusters between them still. ?The Perry thrusters will be mounted under the front ballast tanks on jettisoning mounts. ?I need to figure out how to make a cowl to go from the hull to the pod that will to interfere with the pod releasing from the sub.Hank On Saturday, September 26, 2015 11:44 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 27 20:41:56 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 17:41:56 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <450408793.1504044.1443325632032.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <007801d0f8c4$15693800$403ba800$@telus.net> <450408793.1504044.1443325632032.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004201d0f986$7b5498e0$71fdcaa0$@telus.net> Hi Hank, This sounds really good. I take it that water pressure keeps the pod tight on the hull. Do you have dogs inside the crew hull (like your main hatch) to keep the pod attached during transport and surface ops? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-26-15 8:47 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Tim, I was thinking the same thing, the cowl would be like a cone that you see on dogs around their neck :-) it would fit against both hulls, trapped in place so to speak. There is no jettisoning of the pod by the pilot. When the internal pressure of the sub reaches ambient, the pod simply floats away. I could spring load the pod to give it a bit of a kick away from the sub. It is pretty much a one man pod, so no passengers past 100 feet. I was thinking about putting three 12v gam batteries in the pod as range extenders. I need 319 pounds to balance the pod to neutral. I will build a pool in the shop to get it balanced just right with me in it. Hank On Saturday, September 26, 2015 7:30 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks good, Hank. Alan's thought about the using the pod as further crew accommodation sounds good. But it looks like only one or maybe two crew members will fit in it during escape. I trust that the pod is of sufficient releasable ballast weight to account for its buoyancy that far aft. Is such ballast even necessary? Perhaps you could mould the fairing around and attached to the pod, but also fitting snug against the main hull. Upon release the pod along with the fairing detaches from the hull, and the fairing is then jettisoned from the pod by the pilot using the same method that the pod was jettisoned from the main hull. Thoughts? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-26-15 2:20 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Hi Alan, The hatch has a 6 inch viewport so I can see the surface and the sub as I am leaving for the surface. Hank On Saturday, September 26, 2015 3:06 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Hank, looking really good. A thought I had was that you could put a downward facing viewport in your escape pod so you could take an extra person. Make up a stretcher across the pod entrance so they can lie across it & look down. Or put a small person in it with a side view port. If you had an appropriately placed view port you could see out when you escape & hit the surface. Also you could signal out it with a torch. Alan _____ From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 6:50 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Here is Gamma with the pod in place, the big ring is fitted and ready to weld in. The ballast tanks can be lengthened giving me more free board for shallower launches. I can lengthen them and put the vertical thrusters between them still. The Perry thrusters will be mounted under the front ballast tanks on jettisoning mounts. I need to figure out how to make a cowl to go from the hull to the pod that will to interfere with the pod releasing from the sub. Hank On Saturday, September 26, 2015 11:44 AM, xxx xxxxx > wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16842 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 27 20:43:25 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 17:43:25 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] correction In-Reply-To: <75a955e7-923a-495d-8066-5a3844954f3e@email.android.com> References: <002f01d0f872$79e62330$6db26990$@telus.net> <979396798.1415939.1443284956682.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <75a955e7-923a-495d-8066-5a3844954f3e@email.android.com> Message-ID: <004801d0f986$b03ce8a0$10b6b9e0$@telus.net> Thanks, Sean. This is really interesting. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-26-15 7:06 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] correction While steels have an endurance limit (stress limit below which fatigue failure is highly unlikely to occur), the fatigue endurance limit of the base material is less relevant than the presence of welds and geometric stress concentrations, which impose their own limits due to localized stress concentrations and crack initiation sites. Characterizing the fatigue life of welded structures was a core focus of my job for several years, in the context of mining machinery subject to continuously variable cyclic loading. Invariably, four conclusions always popped up in these analyses: 1) Employ full-penetration welds, 2) Profile grind to eliminate stress concentrations, 3) Fully stress-relieve completed weldments with appropriate heat treatments, and 4) Replace welded construction with smoothly-sculpted castings where possible. Where submarines are concerned, design guides and common practice already address point 1, at least where the pressure hull itself is concerned. I would additionally suggest to be wary of any highly loaded appendages welded to the pressure hull where a crack initiation could possibly propagate into the pressure hull. Point 2, profile grinding, is technically prohibited on submarines, but the military does it, and the weld procedures in the commercial guidelines specify bead geometry limits that accomplish much the same thing. The intent of the prohibition is to eliminate the possibility of grinding below minimum design thickness, but if you're not certifying, I see no reason not to smooth your joints, as long as you are aware of the consequence of error. Point 3 is a great idea if you have access to equipment or a facility with these capabilities. Particularly with PSub-sized hulls, I'd look into getting quotes. Has to be done! before any coatings though. Point 4 is about eliminating abrupt stress concentrations. Obviously this is complicated for a pressure hull. If I had a sub with lots of identical windows, I might look at casting their seats instead of fabricating, as smooth transitions which seamlessly integrate into the base hull are easier than 4:1 weld tapers, and create a smoother load path. As with your welds though, any such castings would have to be 100% NDT'd. All that said, the number of large stress cycles on a submarine hull over its lifetime is so low that fatigue failure is not really an issue, with the possible exception of things like skid attachments and lifting lugs which can see high stresses in the field. Even if you dive every day, that's 365 cycles a year, or maybe 10k over its lifetime. High cycle fatigue generally starts to show up one order of magnitude higher. One thing you should be aware of is that fatigue damage varies linearly with number of cycles, but with the cube of the applied stress. A single cycle at 3 MPa does the same amount of fatigue damage as twenty-seven cycles at 1 MPa! Thus, the fatigue endurance of your boat is dictated predominately by only its deepest dives. This is a counterintuitive result which, interestingly, governs a lot of aircraft design. The wings of large airliners experience their largest stress reversals not due to the forces on the wings in-flight, but rather to the less frequent but greater magnitude switch between flying, where the aircraft is hanging on the wings, and being on the ground, where the wings are hanging from the aircraft. Sean On September 26, 2015 10:29:16 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Tim, Yes, I want a safety margin. As far as I know there is no limit to number of cycles on a steel pressure vessel. That would be a Sean question. Hank On Saturday, September 26, 2015 9:46 AM, T Novak via Personal_Subme! rsibles > wrote: Hi Hank, Sounds like a good way to go. Is your plan to restrict manned dives to 66% of the maximum unmanned test dive? This would seem to be a good policy in general. Is there a design fatigue life on the hull (i.e. so many cycles before overhaul)? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-26-15 7:59 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] correction Hi Tim, I have only been to 105 or 110 with you. I will deep test Gamma with the pod as soon as it is back together. Hank On Saturday, September 26, 2015 8:46 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Hank, What has been the max test depth of Gamma itself with the dome so far? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-26-15 5:44 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] correction Hi All, Correction, I estimated that the pod sank 800 feet based on the amount of rope left on the spool. It actually sank 638 feet, my target depth was 600 feet. I will be diving at 400 feet for the next season. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _____ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 27 22:37:47 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 02:37:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <004201d0f986$7b5498e0$71fdcaa0$@telus.net> References: <004201d0f986$7b5498e0$71fdcaa0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <17657052.1345066.1443407867917.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Tim,The pod is held on with 8 bolts that I have to remove when I need to use the pod. ? It is still very?weird to me that the pod doesn't just fall off when the bolts are out. ?Hank On Sunday, September 27, 2015 6:41 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv4437667069 #yiv4437667069 -- _filtered #yiv4437667069 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv4437667069 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv4437667069 {font-family:helveticaneue;}#yiv4437667069 #yiv4437667069 p.yiv4437667069MsoNormal, #yiv4437667069 li.yiv4437667069MsoNormal, #yiv4437667069 div.yiv4437667069MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv4437667069 a:link, #yiv4437667069 span.yiv4437667069MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4437667069 a:visited, #yiv4437667069 span.yiv4437667069MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4437667069 p.yiv4437667069msonormal, #yiv4437667069 li.yiv4437667069msonormal, #yiv4437667069 div.yiv4437667069msonormal {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv4437667069 p.yiv4437667069msochpdefault, #yiv4437667069 li.yiv4437667069msochpdefault, #yiv4437667069 div.yiv4437667069msochpdefault {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv4437667069 span.yiv4437667069msohyperlink {}#yiv4437667069 span.yiv4437667069msohyperlinkfollowed {}#yiv4437667069 span.yiv4437667069emailstyle17 {}#yiv4437667069 p.yiv4437667069msonormal1, #yiv4437667069 li.yiv4437667069msonormal1, #yiv4437667069 div.yiv4437667069msonormal1 {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv4437667069 span.yiv4437667069msohyperlink1 {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4437667069 span.yiv4437667069msohyperlinkfollowed1 {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4437667069 span.yiv4437667069emailstyle171 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv4437667069 p.yiv4437667069msochpdefault1, #yiv4437667069 li.yiv4437667069msochpdefault1, #yiv4437667069 div.yiv4437667069msochpdefault1 {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv4437667069 span.yiv4437667069EmailStyle27 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv4437667069 .yiv4437667069MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv4437667069 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv4437667069 div.yiv4437667069WordSection1 {}#yiv4437667069 Hi Hank,This sounds really good.? I take it that water pressure keeps the pod tight on the hull.? Do you have dogs inside the crew hull (like your main hatch) to keep the pod attached during transport and surface ops?Tim ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-26-15 8:47 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: ?Tim,I was thinking the same thing, the cowl would be like a cone that you see on dogs around their neck :-) ?it would fit against both hulls, trapped in place so to speak. ?There is no?jettisoning ?of the pod by the pilot. ?When the internal pressure of the sub reaches ambient, the pod simply floats away. ?I could spring load the pod to give it a bit of a kick away from the sub. ?It is pretty much a one man pod, so no passengers past 100 feet. ?I was thinking about putting three 12v gam batteries in the pod as range extenders. ?I need 319 pounds to balance the pod to neutral. ?I will build a pool in the shop to get it balanced just right with me in it.Hank ? ?On Saturday, September 26, 2015 7:30 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Looks good, Hank.?Alan's thought about the using the pod as further crew accommodation sounds good.? But it looks like only one or maybe two crew members will fit in it during escape.I trust that the pod is of sufficient releasable ballast weight to account for its buoyancy that far aft.? Is such ballast even necessary? Perhaps you could mould the fairing around and attached to the pod, but also fitting snug against the main hull.? Upon release the pod along with the fairing detaches from the hull, ?and the fairing is then jettisoned from the pod by the pilot using the same method that the pod was jettisoned from the main hull.Thoughts?Tim?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-26-15 2:20 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw:?Hi Alan,The hatch has a 6 inch viewport so I can see the surface and the sub as I am leaving for the surface.Hank??On Saturday, September 26, 2015 3:06 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote:?Hi Hank,looking really good.A thought I had was that you could put a downward facing viewport in yourescape pod so you could take an extra person. Make up a stretcher across the?pod entrance so they can lie across it & look down. Or put a small person in itwith a side view port.?If you had an appropriately placed view port you could see out when you escape& hit the surface. Also you could signal out it with a torch.Alan?From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 6:50 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw:?Here is Gamma with the pod in place, the big ring is fitted and ready to weld in. ?The ballast tanks can be lengthened?giving ?me more free board for shallower launches. ?I can lengthen them and put the vertical thrusters between them still. ?The Perry thrusters will be mounted under the front ballast tanks on jettisoning mounts. ?I need to figure out how to make a cowl to go from the hull to the pod that will to interfere with the pod releasing from the sub.Hank?On Saturday, September 26, 2015 11:44 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote:?? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 16842 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 00:36:47 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 21:36:47 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Message-ID: <20150927213647.F828633A@m0087796.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 06:35:30 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 11:35:30 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sat Dive Message-ID: Hi All, I did a day of diving on Sat. My brother towed me round to a nice bay the other side of the harbour. The dives themselves were excellent if fairly eventless. Got to a depth of 10m. My new motor controls worked a charm. This is obviously how the K boats are supposed to be driven. I had the ballast just right this time and I could drive up and down on the rotating motors. However, the issue of the day was the tow. What a nightmare. I had welded 2 rings onto the front of each battery pod and rigged a long line between the two. Then had a main tow rope attached to that. The idea was to pull it from the bottom and at both sides. This was a complete failure as the main line slipped around to one side and my brother had real difficulty pulling me sideways. We were going across the mouth of the main harbour and because of the incorrect tow line, we were going so slow that port control had to radio a couple of commercial boats to wait for us. Of course I couldn't get out to adjust anything, nor could the boat, so we just had to press on until we got there. It was extremely unpleasant as I was being crashed about sideways while trying to breath through the snorkel. The way back was a lot better as we rigged the tow line to the forward rail, something I didn't want to do. Anyway, it towed a lot better and did not damage the rail mount. I have some video of the way back as I was able to film. On the way there I was too busy hanging on. We left earlier than intended in order to give us plenty of time to get back, and because the tow back was better, got back too early. I had to tie to a mooring buoy and wait. The wind got up and I had sit with the hatch locked for an hour and a half waiting for the marina gate to open. I was worried I wouldn't be able to open the hatch to release the line, but as it turned out, I just did it real quick and it was all ok. I suppose with hindsight its pretty obvious that initial rope wasn't going to work. Lesson learnt. Tow from the front bar. Dives themselves were really good. Got some good video etc which I will post when I have edited it up. pic of boat on tow on the way back. Kind Regards James ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: tow.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 162035 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 07:43:07 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 11:43:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <20150927213647.F828633A@m0087796.ppops.net> References: <20150927213647.F828633A@m0087796.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1278338448.1958531.1443440587442.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,Sounds like you are getting there, you might be able to do your vacuum test, that is very rewarding. ?I have a trick for that.Hank On Sunday, September 27, 2015 10:37 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,????????????? Looks like I will have to push my tea bag test into October !? All the fittings are welded in, getting ready to sand blast and paint.? Have all the parts for the trailer ( 2 -?7K axles , plus a 20K # rated surge brake)? just have to find my balance point.? I plan to put about 2,000 lbs on the tongue?or maybe a little less.? ?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 15:12:49 +0000 (UTC) Brian,How are you making out? ?any idea of a test date? ?There is a smaller depth gauge on?eBay right now that will fit through your hatch :-) ?Hank On Sunday, September 27, 2015 9:09 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian,I agree, I have a lot of work ahead of me :-) ? I am trying to get the dirty work done now while the shop doors can be open. ?I had a job cancel at the last minute so I have had a bit of time to work on it. ?I will be working full time now for the next month or so :-(Hank On Sunday, September 27, 2015 8:41 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Looks impressive Hank !?? Quite a project !?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 17:50:55 +0000 (UTC) Here is Gamma with the pod in place, the big ring is fitted and ready to weld in. ?The ballast tanks can be lengthened?giving ?me more free board for shallower launches. ?I can lengthen them and put the vertical thrusters between them still. ?The Perry thrusters will be mounted under the front ballast tanks on jettisoning mounts. ?I need to figure out how to make a cowl to go from the hull to the pod that will to interfere with the pod releasing from the sub.Hank On Saturday, September 26, 2015 11:44 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 09:04:28 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 15:04:28 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sat Dive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yep, I know the problem. Due to the bad hydrodynamics the sub pulls strong to left or right. We have good result with towing beside the support vessel( up to 5 Knots). Much better to control in canals and marinas. But will not work when the waves getting higher. Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 28 september 2015 12:36 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sat Dive Hi All, I did a day of diving on Sat. My brother towed me round to a nice bay the other side of the harbour. The dives themselves were excellent if fairly eventless. Got to a depth of 10m. My new motor controls worked a charm. This is obviously how the K boats are supposed to be driven. I had the ballast just right this time and I could drive up and down on the rotating motors. However, the issue of the day was the tow. What a nightmare. I had welded 2 rings onto the front of each battery pod and rigged a long line between the two. Then had a main tow rope attached to that. The idea was to pull it from the bottom and at both sides. This was a complete failure as the main line slipped around to one side and my brother had real difficulty pulling me sideways. We were going across the mouth of the main harbour and because of the incorrect tow line, we were going so slow that port control had to radio a couple of commercial boats to wait for us. Of course I couldn't get out to adjust anything, nor could the boat, so we just had to press on until we got there. It was extremely unpleasant as I was being crashed about sideways while trying to breath through the snorkel. The way back was a lot better as we rigged the tow line to the forward rail, something I didn't want to do. Anyway, it towed a lot better and did not damage the rail mount. I have some video of the way back as I was able to film. On the way there I was too busy hanging on. We left earlier than intended in order to give us plenty of time to get back, and because the tow back was better, got back too early. I had to tie to a mooring buoy and wait. The wind got up and I had sit with the hatch locked for an hour and a half waiting for the marina gate to open. I was worried I wouldn't be able to open the hatch to release the line, but as it turned out, I just did it real quick and it was all ok. I suppose with hindsight its pretty obvious that initial rope wasn't going to work. Lesson learnt. Tow from the front bar. Dives themselves were really good. Got some good video etc which I will post when I have edited it up. pic of boat on tow on the way back. Kind Regards James ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 28117 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1419.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 38558 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 09:57:55 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 14:57:55 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sat Dive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Emile. Looks an interesting idea. Maybe I will give it a try. Thanks James On 28 September 2015 at 14:04, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Yep, I know the problem. Due to the bad hydrodynamics the sub pulls strong > to left or right. > > > > We have good result with towing beside the support vessel( up to 5 Knots). > Much better to control in canals and marinas. But will not work when the > waves getting higher. > > > > Emile > > > ------------------------------ > > *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles > *Verzonden:* maandag 28 september 2015 12:36 > *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Onderwerp:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sat Dive > > > > Hi All, > > > I did a day of diving on Sat. My brother towed me round to a nice bay > the other side of the harbour. The dives themselves were excellent if > fairly eventless. Got to a depth of 10m. My new motor controls worked a > charm. This is obviously how the K boats are supposed to be driven. I had > the ballast just right this time and I could drive up and down on the > rotating motors. > > > > However, the issue of the day was the tow. What a nightmare. I had > welded 2 rings onto the front of each battery pod and rigged a long line > between the two. Then had a main tow rope attached to that. The idea was > to pull it from the bottom and at both sides. This was a complete failure > as the main line slipped around to one side and my brother had real > difficulty pulling me sideways. We were going across the mouth of the main > harbour and because of the incorrect tow line, we were going so slow that > port control had to radio a couple of commercial boats to wait for us. Of > course I couldn't get out to adjust anything, nor could the boat, so we > just had to press on until we got there. It was extremely unpleasant as I > was being crashed about sideways while trying to breath through the snorkel. > > > > The way back was a lot better as we rigged the tow line to the forward > rail, something I didn't want to do. Anyway, it towed a lot better and did > not damage the rail mount. I have some video of the way back as I was able > to film. On the way there I was too busy hanging on. > > > > We left earlier than intended in order to give us plenty of time to get > back, and because the tow back was better, got back too early. I had to > tie to a mooring buoy and wait. The wind got up and I had sit with the > hatch locked for an hour and a half waiting for the marina gate to open. I > was worried I wouldn't be able to open the hatch to release the line, but > as it turned out, I just did it real quick and it was all ok. > > > > I suppose with hindsight its pretty obvious that initial rope wasn't going > to work. > > > > Lesson learnt. Tow from the front bar. > > > > Dives themselves were really good. Got some good video etc which I will > post when I have edited it up. > > > > pic of boat on tow on the way back. > > > > Kind Regards > > James > > > > > ? > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 28117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 10:49:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 10:49:42 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sat Dive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5350A516-4990-41E6-AFCE-B292A383A4DD@optonline.net> Hi Jim: To eliminate the slip on the tow line make up a bridle between the two pods and a to line to a second bridle for the tender if it is not using a center towing post. John K. (203) 414-1000 Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 28, 2015, at 6:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > > I did a day of diving on Sat. My brother towed me round to a nice bay the other side of the harbour. The dives themselves were excellent if fairly eventless. Got to a depth of 10m. My new motor controls worked a charm. This is obviously how the K boats are supposed to be driven. I had the ballast just right this time and I could drive up and down on the rotating motors. > > However, the issue of the day was the tow. What a nightmare. I had welded 2 rings onto the front of each battery pod and rigged a long line between the two. Then had a main tow rope attached to that. The idea was to pull it from the bottom and at both sides. This was a complete failure as the main line slipped around to one side and my brother had real difficulty pulling me sideways. We were going across the mouth of the main harbour and because of the incorrect tow line, we were going so slow that port control had to radio a couple of commercial boats to wait for us. Of course I couldn't get out to adjust anything, nor could the boat, so we just had to press on until we got there. It was extremely unpleasant as I was being crashed about sideways while trying to breath through the snorkel. > > The way back was a lot better as we rigged the tow line to the forward rail, something I didn't want to do. Anyway, it towed a lot better and did not damage the rail mount. I have some video of the way back as I was able to film. On the way there I was too busy hanging on. > > We left earlier than intended in order to give us plenty of time to get back, and because the tow back was better, got back too early. I had to tie to a mooring buoy and wait. The wind got up and I had sit with the hatch locked for an hour and a half waiting for the marina gate to open. I was worried I wouldn't be able to open the hatch to release the line, but as it turned out, I just did it real quick and it was all ok. > > I suppose with hindsight its pretty obvious that initial rope wasn't going to work. > > Lesson learnt. Tow from the front bar. > > Dives themselves were really good. Got some good video etc which I will post when I have edited it up. > > pic of boat on tow on the way back. > > Kind Regards > James > > > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 11:39:06 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 08:39:06 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Message-ID: <20150928083906.F82BDAA8@m0087797.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 13:08:38 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 17:08:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <20150928083906.F82BDAA8@m0087797.ppops.net> References: <20150928083906.F82BDAA8@m0087797.ppops.net> Message-ID: <543777844.2131930.1443460118402.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,No, look at your shop compressor, most compressor pumps have a screw on pipe thread intake that the filter screws on to. ?Put a fitting on that and use a hydraulic hose for the vacuum line.Hank On Monday, September 28, 2015 9:39 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,?????? Your truck's vacuum line???Brian??? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 11:43:07 +0000 (UTC) Brian,Sounds like you are getting there, you might be able to do your vacuum test, that is very rewarding. ?I have a trick for that.Hank On Sunday, September 27, 2015 10:37 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,????????????? Looks like I will have to push my tea bag test into October !? All the fittings are welded in, getting ready to sand blast and paint.? Have all the parts for the trailer ( 2 -?7K axles , plus a 20K # rated surge brake)? just have to find my balance point.? I plan to put about 2,000 lbs on the tongue?or maybe a little less.? ?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 15:12:49 +0000 (UTC) Brian,How are you making out? ?any idea of a test date? ?There is a smaller depth gauge on?eBay right now that will fit through your hatch :-) ?Hank On Sunday, September 27, 2015 9:09 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian,I agree, I have a lot of work ahead of me :-) ? I am trying to get the dirty work done now while the shop doors can be open. ?I had a job cancel at the last minute so I have had a bit of time to work on it. ?I will be working full time now for the next month or so :-(Hank On Sunday, September 27, 2015 8:41 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Looks impressive Hank !?? Quite a project !?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 17:50:55 +0000 (UTC) Here is Gamma with the pod in place, the big ring is fitted and ready to weld in. ?The ballast tanks can be lengthened?giving ?me more free board for shallower launches. ?I can lengthen them and put the vertical thrusters between them still. ?The Perry thrusters will be mounted under the front ballast tanks on jettisoning mounts. ?I need to figure out how to make a cowl to go from the hull to the pod that will to interfere with the pod releasing from the sub.Hank On Saturday, September 26, 2015 11:44 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 13:10:26 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 17:10:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1151638728.2142164.1443460226883.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> This is how rookie welders achieve good welds, by putting the work piece in position. ? :-)Hank On Monday, September 28, 2015 11:06 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0204.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17192 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 14:05:52 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 11:05:52 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Message-ID: <20150928110552.F826E4DD@m0086238.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 15:24:58 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 15:24:58 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <1151638728.2142164.1443460226883.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1151638728.2142164.1443460226883.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Oh my goodness, and I don't even see anything holding her up!.I've had a few maneuvers like that, and they are by far the most dangerous part of owning a PSUB. If I ever have a really bad PSUB day, it's much more likely to be in the shop than the water! Alec On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 1:10 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > This is how rookie welders achieve good welds, by putting the work piece > in position. :-) > Hank > > > On Monday, September 28, 2015 11:06 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0204.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17192 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 17:11:44 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 21:11:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <749008629.2349256.1443474704359.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,Yes, the tipping point is very tense lol. ?That?maneuver took me 3 hr,,, lift, check,lift, check........Call wife to remove the shim while she has a look of sheer terror! ? ?lift, check........ Well worth the trouble though. ?The front ring is so big, the sub stands there even with me standing on a scaffold plank inside to grind the taper. ?She is all ready to weld up, even got her wrapped in heavy pond liner.Hank On Monday, September 28, 2015 1:24 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Oh my goodness, and I don't even see anything holding her up!.I've had a few maneuvers like that, and they are by far the most dangerous part of owning a PSUB. If I ever have a really bad PSUB day, it's much more likely to be in the shop than the water! Alec? On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 1:10 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: This is how rookie welders achieve good welds, by putting the work piece in position. ? :-)Hank On Monday, September 28, 2015 11:06 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0204.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17192 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 17:22:37 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 10:22:37 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <1151638728.2142164.1443460226883.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1151638728.2142164.1443460226883.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5A23D045-8844-41AB-B10C-EECB2AAB129B@yahoo.com> LIKE Sent from my iPad > On 29/09/2015, at 6:10 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > This is how rookie welders achieve good welds, by putting the work piece in position. :-) > Hank > > > On Monday, September 28, 2015 11:06 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 17:42:57 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?UTF-8?Q?Lasse_Schmidt_Westr=C3=A9n?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 23:42:57 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Digital Depth gauge with secondary display to passengers Message-ID: Hey Guys, http://www.ebay.com/itm/G3-8-Digital-display-pressure-transmitter-4-20mADC-sensor-stainless-0-40bar-/331562111499?tfrom=231569857640&tpos=top&ttype=price&talgo=undefined I found this cool type of gauge that shows pressure in a simple way, and has the ability to send the data to a secondary display. I can?t figure out what kind of secondary displays to use, I?d like to put a display or two in the passenger compartment for my passengers to see the depth, and maybe a display all the way in the front of the sub. Anyone up with a solution? Cheers, Lasse -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 29 06:48:58 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 23:48:58 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Digital Depth gauge with secondary display to passengers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Lasse, There are smarter people than me on this site with regard to this stuff, but in case they don't post, here are my thoughts. I had a look at that meter on a few different sites & couldn't find any instructions with it. Maybe ask the seller if any pdf on the gauge exists. I have bought a few Chinese products recently that have either no instructions or very poor instructions. There are a number of cheap panel meters that you could calibrate to the gauges output, & on a quick search I saw a programable module that would work between the gauge & panel meter. There may be problems running a number of panel meters simultaneously, with regard to voltage drop with them sharing the same output source & voltage drop over long wire runs. It may be that the panel meters need to be calibrated when they are set up in the sub. There are loads of those type of sensors on Digikey & you may get some set up answers off their pdfs. Cheers, Alan Sent from my iPad > On 29/09/2015, at 10:42 am, Lasse Schmidt Westr?n via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hey Guys, > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/G3-8-Digital-display-pressure-transmitter-4-20mADC-sensor-stainless-0-40bar-/331562111499?tfrom=231569857640&tpos=top&ttype=price&talgo=undefined > > I found this cool type of gauge that shows pressure in a simple way, and has the ability to send the data to a secondary display. > I can?t figure out what kind of secondary displays to use, I?d like to put a display or two in the passenger compartment for my passengers to see the depth, and maybe a display all the way in the front of the sub. Anyone up with a solution? > > Cheers, Lasse > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 29 09:18:06 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 09:18:06 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Digital Depth gauge with secondary display to passengers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <560A8F8E.20508@psubs.org> You'd have to convert the output to voltage then measure it via a microprocessor such as the Arduino but possibly with a higher resolution ADC than is native on the Arduino. Then it's just a matter of choosing the display type, either LED, OLED, or LCD. The embedded display on the sensing unit must be in BAR, you usually want feet or meters. You've got a learning curve if you aren't familiar with hobby electronics but check sparkfun.com and adafruit.com for supplies and resources. Jon On 9/28/2015 5:42 PM, Lasse Schmidt Westr?n via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hey Guys, > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/G3-8-Digital-display-pressure-transmitter-4-20mADC-sensor-stainless-0-40bar-/331562111499?tfrom=231569857640&tpos=top&ttype=price&talgo=undefined > > I found this cool type of gauge that shows pressure in a simple way, > and has the ability to send the data to a secondary display. > I can?t figure out what kind of secondary displays to use, I?d like to > put a display or two in the passenger compartment for my passengers to > see the depth, and maybe a display all the way in the front of the > sub. Anyone up with a solution? > > Cheers, Lasse > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 29 10:23:09 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 10:23:09 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Digital Depth gauge with secondary display to passengers In-Reply-To: <560A8F8E.20508@psubs.org> References: <560A8F8E.20508@psubs.org> Message-ID: Hi Lasse, There are displays that can process the current input directly without any need for signal processing on your part. See for instance the DPML or DPMO series on the following page: http://www.dwyer-inst.com/Product/ProcessControl/PanelMeters-Indicators Within each series they have different models depending on type of input. You would need to pick current input, such as DPML-401 for instance. Please note I have not used these displays myself, but I came across them when searching for components. Best, Alec On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 9:18 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > You'd have to convert the output to voltage then measure it via a > microprocessor such as the Arduino but possibly with a higher resolution > ADC than is native on the Arduino. Then it's just a matter of choosing the > display type, either LED, OLED, or LCD. The embedded display on the sensing > unit must be in BAR, you usually want feet or meters. You've got a > learning curve if you aren't familiar with hobby electronics but check > sparkfun.com and adafruit.com for supplies and resources. > > Jon > > > > On 9/28/2015 5:42 PM, Lasse Schmidt Westr?n via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> Hey Guys, >> >> >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/G3-8-Digital-display-pressure-transmitter-4-20mADC-sensor-stainless-0-40bar-/331562111499?tfrom=231569857640&tpos=top&ttype=price&talgo=undefined >> >> I found this cool type of gauge that shows pressure in a simple way, and >> has the ability to send the data to a secondary display. >> I can?t figure out what kind of secondary displays to use, I?d like to >> put a display or two in the passenger compartment for my passengers to see >> the depth, and maybe a display all the way in the front of the sub. Anyone >> up with a solution? >> >> Cheers, Lasse >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 29 13:37:32 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 13:37:32 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cliff are you there? Message-ID: Hi Cliff, If you get this could you contact me offline please? I've been emailing you but getting no response, but I'm not sure I have the right address, I've a bunch of them. Thanks, Alec -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 29 16:16:59 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 16:16:59 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Light 10,000 Lumens Message-ID: <004c01d0faf3$cc16fd40$6444f7c0$@cfl.rr.com> If you go to the forums you can find the latest installment of the LED driver schematics and parts list. I found a few errors which I corrected and I changed the PWM IC to one I have more confidence in. I did not use a reverse polarity protect diode since I didn't want to throw away the power in a diode so I used a FET as the reverse polarity protect device. It cost about $0.80 more to do this. The cost of the electrical parts is about $88 from Digikey including the Varo 29 LED array. This is for a single unit and the parts cost goes down if higher quantity. This does not include the PWB. I have ordered the first kit of parts from Digikey today to help me in laying out the PWB which is next. These parts will be used in the first prototype. I should have an area study done by next week so we can start firming up the mechanical packing and making it fit into the housing Cliff has generated. The design meets all but one of our original requirements as stated in the spec we generated. Meeting the full EMI requirements of MIL-STD-461 would require a large EMI Filter which in the interests of small size was modified to accept a small EMI Filter, mostly common mode filtering. I think it will have no problems in the Sub's electrical environment. One of the things I'm interested in is to put the driver on a single rectangular PWB so we could use the driver as a stand-alone driver internal to the Sub so the LED array could be all that is packaged outside the sub. It would require a 4 conductor cable to the LED array outside the sub. That may be for the future, for now we are going with Cliff's housing. Wish us luck, Ken Martindale From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 30 01:28:36 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 05:28:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Light 10,000 Lumens In-Reply-To: <004c01d0faf3$cc16fd40$6444f7c0$@cfl.rr.com> References: <004c01d0faf3$cc16fd40$6444f7c0$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1813309308.2965126.1443590916270.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Ken,you have a lot of parts to fit in there.?Maybe you will need to stack the PCBsGood luck.Alan From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 9:16 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Light 10,000 Lumens If you go to the forums you can find the latest installment of the LED driver schematics and parts list. I found a few errors which I corrected and I changed the PWM IC to one I have more confidence in. I did not use a reverse polarity protect diode since I didn't want to throw away the power in a diode so I used a FET as the reverse polarity protect device. It cost about $0.80 more to do this. The cost of the electrical parts is about $88 from Digikey including the Varo 29 LED array. This is for a single unit and the parts cost goes down if higher quantity. This does not include the PWB. I have ordered the first kit of parts from Digikey today to help me in laying out the PWB which is next. These parts will be used in the first prototype. I should have an area study done by next week so we can start firming up the mechanical packing and making it fit into the housing Cliff has generated. The design meets all but one of our original requirements as stated in the spec we generated. Meeting the full EMI requirements of MIL-STD-461 would require a large EMI Filter which in the interests of small size was modified to accept a small EMI Filter, mostly common mode filtering. I think it will have no problems in the Sub's electrical environment. One of the things I'm interested in is to put the driver on a single rectangular PWB so we could use the driver as a stand-alone driver internal to the Sub so the LED array could be all that is packaged outside the sub. It would require a 4 conductor cable to the LED array outside the sub. That may be for the future, for now we are going with Cliff's housing. Wish us luck, Ken Martindale _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 30 05:52:39 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 10:52:39 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video Message-ID: Hi All, Here is a video of the dives I did at the weekend. I did a short and a long version, but I assume you all want to see the "directors cut" full version... :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7hw5UqZguA Kind Regards James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 30 08:18:52 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 12:18:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <898953266.3339121.1443615532323.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi James,Very nice!, the more video the better, ?I notice you were breathing through your manual scrubber mouth piece, is that to kick start the absorbent? ??Hank On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 3:53 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,?Here is a video of the dives I did at the weekend.? I did a short and a long version, but I assume you all want to see the "directors cut" full version... :)??https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7hw5UqZguA?Kind RegardsJames?? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 30 08:25:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 13:25:00 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: <898953266.3339121.1443615532323.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <898953266.3339121.1443615532323.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, No that was the snorkel. I was breathing through it as it was steaming up bad inside. Regards James On 30 September 2015 at 13:18, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi James, > Very nice!, the more video the better, I notice you were breathing > through your manual scrubber mouth piece, is that to kick start the > absorbent? > Hank > > > > On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 3:53 AM, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi All, > > Here is a video of the dives I did at the weekend. I did a short and a > long version, but I assume you all want to see the "directors cut" full > version... :) > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7hw5UqZguA > > Kind Regards > James > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 30 08:35:30 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 08:35:30 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Very nice! I enjoy seeing how well sorted Jodie B. is, down to the pre-dive checklist taped inside the CT. Everything is in its proper place and cleanly organized. Interesting how the video shot from inside the sub looked like way better visibility than the diver video. I wonder if that was just the sub lights or perhaps a more light sensitive camera being used in the sub? Best, Alec On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 5:52 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, > > Here is a video of the dives I did at the weekend. I did a short and a > long version, but I assume you all want to see the "directors cut" full > version... :) > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7hw5UqZguA > > Kind Regards > James > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 30 08:41:43 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 13:41:43 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Alec, Thanks. I like to be organised! The camera was the same one! The video is all bits pasted together from multiple dives. The only difference is that in the sub its not in its waterproof housing. Maybe that was the difference. Probably just the water maybe. The visibility was actually very good and the outside shots don't really do it justice. On 30 September 2015 at 13:35, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Very nice! I enjoy seeing how well sorted Jodie B. is, down to the > pre-dive checklist taped inside the CT. Everything is in its proper place > and cleanly organized. Interesting how the video shot from inside the sub > looked like way better visibility than the diver video. I wonder if that > was just the sub lights or perhaps a more light sensitive camera being used > in the sub? > > Best, > > Alec > > On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 5:52 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> Here is a video of the dives I did at the weekend. I did a short and a >> long version, but I assume you all want to see the "directors cut" full >> version... :) >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7hw5UqZguA >> >> Kind Regards >> James >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 30 09:15:25 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 08:15:25 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cliff are you there? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alec, I put the pressure reducing regulator in the mail to you today. The USPS tracking number is 9505 5113 0867 5273 2909 34. Best Regards Cliff On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Cliff, > > If you get this could you contact me offline please? I've been emailing > you but getting no response, but I'm not sure I have the right address, > I've a bunch of them. > > Thanks, > > Alec > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 30 09:30:10 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 09:30:10 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cliff are you there? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you! BTW Alan mentioned it had to be mounted upside down with a little tube from a hole in the knob going downward, to prevent water from entering the regulator. Did you bother to do that? Best, Alec On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, I put the pressure reducing regulator in the mail to you today. The > USPS tracking number is 9505 5113 0867 5273 2909 34. > > Best Regards > > Cliff > > On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi Cliff, >> >> If you get this could you contact me offline please? I've been emailing >> you but getting no response, but I'm not sure I have the right address, >> I've a bunch of them. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Alec >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 30 10:31:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 07:31:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video Message-ID: <20150930073142.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a00023e1c3.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 30 11:50:45 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 17:50:45 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Great video! The absence of a vertical tailrudder on a K boat might also contribute to the bad towing. Cheers, Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 30 september 2015 11:53 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video Hi All, Here is a video of the dives I did at the weekend. I did a short and a long version, but I assume you all want to see the "directors cut" full version... :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7hw5UqZguA Kind Regards James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 30 12:09:26 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 09:09:26 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video Message-ID: <20150930090926.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.4c5e3c79d6.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 30 13:02:01 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 13:02:01 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Light 10,000 Lumens In-Reply-To: <1813309308.2965126.1443590916270.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <004c01d0faf3$cc16fd40$6444f7c0$@cfl.rr.com> <1813309308.2965126.1443590916270.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005601d0fba1$b9ce0ee0$2d6a2ca0$@cfl.rr.com> We will see, Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 1:29 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Light 10,000 Lumens Thanks Ken, you have a lot of parts to fit in there. Maybe you will need to stack the PCBs Good luck. Alan _____ From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 9:16 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Light 10,000 Lumens If you go to the forums you can find the latest installment of the LED driver schematics and parts list. I found a few errors which I corrected and I changed the PWM IC to one I have more confidence in. I did not use a reverse polarity protect diode since I didn't want to throw away the power in a diode so I used a FET as the reverse polarity protect device. It cost about $0.80 more to do this. The cost of the electrical parts is about $88 from Digikey including the Varo 29 LED array. This is for a single unit and the parts cost goes down if higher quantity. This does not include the PWB. I have ordered the first kit of parts from Digikey today to help me in laying out the PWB which is next. These parts will be used in the first prototype. I should have an area study done by next week so we can start firming up the mechanical packing and making it fit into the housing Cliff has generated. The design meets all but one of our original requirements as stated in the spec we generated. Meeting the full EMI requirements of MIL-STD-461 would require a large EMI Filter which in the interests of small size was modified to accept a small EMI Filter, mostly common mode filtering. I think it will have no problems in the Sub's electrical environment. One of the things I'm interested in is to put the driver on a single rectangular PWB so we could use the driver as a stand-alone driver internal to the Sub so the LED array could be all that is packaged outside the sub. It would require a 4 conductor cable to the LED array outside the sub. That may be for the future, for now we are going with Cliff's housing. Wish us luck, Ken Martindale _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 30 13:12:25 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 12:12:25 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cliff are you there? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I did not. I mounted mine horizontally for clearance reasons. My thinking is that I set the downstream pressure to be just above ambient pressure. So when descending the regulator should be supplying air just above water pressure. Don't see any chance for water entering the vent hole in this state. When ascending, air should be venting from the hole so don't see how water gets in during this state as well. So I don't see a state in which water is going into the vent hole. As I have had only one dive with this regulator can't really say to much on operating experience. When I get back from Australia, I plan to take the boat out for a 150 ft dive so I should get more experience with the regulator then. Regards Cliff Cliff Redus > On Sep 30, 2015, at 8:30 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thank you! BTW Alan mentioned it had to be mounted upside down with a little tube from a hole in the knob going downward, to prevent water from entering the regulator. Did you bother to do that? > > Best, > > Alec > >> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alec, I put the pressure reducing regulator in the mail to you today. The USPS tracking number is 9505 5113 0867 5273 2909 34. >> >> Best Regards >> >> Cliff >> >>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Hi Cliff, >>> >>> If you get this could you contact me offline please? I've been emailing you but getting no response, but I'm not sure I have the right address, I've a bunch of them. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 30 14:51:41 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 18:51:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cliff are you there? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1404215119.3526721.1443639101658.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alec, Cliff,there is the vent hole in the handle section & there is the small relieving valve.Water will come in the vent hole & enter the handle section.My concern was that if the regulator wasn't mounted upside down then you wouldhave water sitting up against the relieving valve. The differential pressure between?the air & water will be less as the valve begins to close & a small amount of water?could get in. The less moisture in there the better, so mounting upsidedown orhaving a tube off the vent hole some how would be a better option.Hugh was on the same page re mounting upsidedown.Cheers Alan From: via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2015 6:12 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cliff are you there? I did not. ?I mounted mine horizontally for clearance reasons. ?My thinking is that I set the downstream pressure to be just above ambient pressure. ?So when descending the regulator should be supplying air just above water pressure. ?Don't see any chance for water entering the vent hole in this state. ?When ascending, ?air should be venting from the hole so don't see how water gets in during this state as well. ?So I don't see a state in which water is going into the vent hole. ? As I have had only one dive with this regulator can't really say to much on operating experience. ? When I get back from Australia, I plan to take the boat out for a 150 ft dive so I should get more experience with the regulator then. Regards ?Cliff Cliff Redus On Sep 30, 2015, at 8:30 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thank you! BTW Alan mentioned it had to be mounted upside down with a little tube from a hole in the knob going downward, to prevent water from entering the regulator. Did you bother to do that? Best, Alec On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, I put the pressure reducing regulator in the mail to you today.? The USPS tracking number is 9505 5113 0867 5273 2909 34. Best Regards Cliff On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, If you get this could you contact me offline please? I've been emailing you but getting no response, but I'm not sure I have the right address, I've a bunch of them. Thanks, Alec _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 30 15:17:48 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 15:17:48 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cliff are you there? In-Reply-To: <1404215119.3526721.1443639101658.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1404215119.3526721.1443639101658.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Alan. I haven't got the regulator in hand yet so am having trouble visualizing the details. BTW changing topics back to the previous discussion of the digital pressure gauge, I do have that one in hand and meant to add a follow-up with a limitation I've found. For some reason, the digital display on that is really hard to read from anywhere but eye level. It's like one of those "anti-peeping tom" plastic sheets you can get for laptop screens to prevent the guy in the plane seat next to you from reading your screen. If space doesn't permit it to be mounted right at eye level, that instrument is probably not the way to go. Fortunately I do have the space to put it right in front of the pilot's face in the CT. Best, Alec On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 2:51 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, Cliff, > there is the vent hole in the handle section & there is the small > relieving valve. > Water will come in the vent hole & enter the handle section. > My concern was that if the regulator wasn't mounted upside down then you > would > have water sitting up against the relieving valve. The differential > pressure between > the air & water will be less as the valve begins to close & a small amount > of water > could get in. The less moisture in there the better, so mounting > upsidedown or > having a tube off the vent hole some how would be a better option. > Hugh was on the same page re mounting upsidedown. > Cheers Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* via Personal_Submersibles > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, October 1, 2015 6:12 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cliff are you there? > > I did not. I mounted mine horizontally for clearance reasons. My > thinking is that I set the downstream pressure to be just above ambient > pressure. So when descending the regulator should be supplying air just > above water pressure. Don't see any chance for water entering the vent > hole in this state. When ascending, air should be venting from the hole > so don't see how water gets in during this state as well. So I don't see a > state in which water is going into the vent hole. > > As I have had only one dive with this regulator can't really say to much > on operating experience. > > When I get back from Australia, I plan to take the boat out for a 150 ft > dive so I should get more experience with the regulator then. > > Regards Cliff > > > Cliff Redus > > > > On Sep 30, 2015, at 8:30 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thank you! BTW Alan mentioned it had to be mounted upside down with a > little tube from a hole in the knob going downward, to prevent water from > entering the regulator. Did you bother to do that? > > Best, > > Alec > > On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alec, I put the pressure reducing regulator in the mail to you today. The > USPS tracking number is 9505 5113 0867 5273 2909 34. > > Best Regards > > Cliff > > On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Cliff, > > If you get this could you contact me offline please? I've been emailing > you but getting no response, but I'm not sure I have the right address, > I've a bunch of them. > > Thanks, > > Alec > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 30 15:22:31 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 08:22:31 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <560c35cf.4acc440a.9dc28.5383@mx.google.com> James, very tidy. Nice to see. Thanks Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 30 September 2015 10:53 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video Hi All, Here is a video of the dives I did at the weekend. I did a short and a long version, but I assume you all want to see the "directors cut" full version... :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7hw5UqZguA Kind Regards James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 30 22:29:52 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 15:29:52 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cliff are you there? In-Reply-To: References: <1404215119.3526721.1443639101658.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3CE31872-3E43-4583-9A9A-10FA941EC959@yahoo.com> Thanks Alec, I wouldn't have anticipated that problem viewing the gauge. On having a closer look at the diagram of the regulator relief valve; it does look difficult to get water in through the valve. Another problem could be water sitting in the handle body for an indefinite time after a dive. Some regulators I pulled apart had the relieving vent hole out through the end of the handle, so that if mounted upside down, the water that got in would drain out. I have just ordered 2 similar regulators from Norgren. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 1/10/2015, at 8:17 am, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks Alan. I haven't got the regulator in hand yet so am having trouble visualizing the details. BTW changing topics back to the previous discussion of the digital pressure gauge, I do have that one in hand and meant to add a follow-up with a limitation I've found. For some reason, the digital display on that is really hard to read from anywhere but eye level. It's like one of those "anti-peeping tom" plastic sheets you can get for laptop screens to prevent the guy in the plane seat next to you from reading your screen. If space doesn't permit it to be mounted right at eye level, that instrument is probably not the way to go. Fortunately I do have the space to put it right in front of the pilot's face in the CT. > > Best, > > Alec > >> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 2:51 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alec, Cliff, >> there is the vent hole in the handle section & there is the small relieving valve. >> Water will come in the vent hole & enter the handle section. >> My concern was that if the regulator wasn't mounted upside down then you would >> have water sitting up against the relieving valve. The differential pressure between >> the air & water will be less as the valve begins to close & a small amount of water >> could get in. The less moisture in there the better, so mounting upsidedown or >> having a tube off the vent hole some how would be a better option. >> Hugh was on the same page re mounting upsidedown. >> Cheers Alan >> >> From: via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2015 6:12 AM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cliff are you there? >> >> I did not. I mounted mine horizontally for clearance reasons. My thinking is that I set the downstream pressure to be just above ambient pressure. So when descending the regulator should be supplying air just above water pressure. Don't see any chance for water entering the vent hole in this state. When ascending, air should be venting from the hole so don't see how water gets in during this state as well. So I don't see a state in which water is going into the vent hole. >> >> As I have had only one dive with this regulator can't really say to much on operating experience. >> >> When I get back from Australia, I plan to take the boat out for a 150 ft dive so I should get more experience with the regulator then. >> >> Regards Cliff >> >> >> Cliff Redus >> >> >> >>> On Sep 30, 2015, at 8:30 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Thank you! BTW Alan mentioned it had to be mounted upside down with a little tube from a hole in the knob going downward, to prevent water from entering the regulator. Did you bother to do that? >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Alec, I put the pressure reducing regulator in the mail to you today. The USPS tracking number is 9505 5113 0867 5273 2909 34. >>> >>> Best Regards >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Hi Cliff, >>> >>> If you get this could you contact me offline please? I've been emailing you but getting no response, but I'm not sure I have the right address, I've a bunch of them. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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