From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 1 12:10:57 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 12:10:57 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2016 convention video Message-ID: Hey everyone, here's some gopro footage of the dive operations. Special thanks to Dan H and Gary Sluis for taking there subs! https://vimeo.com/177098928 Best, Alec -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 1 12:30:40 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 09:30:40 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2016 convention video Message-ID: <20160801093040.191B7D31@m0087796.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 1 13:00:33 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 10:00:33 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2016 convention video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001f01d1ec16$38c475d0$aa4d6170$@telus.net> Very nice video, Alec! Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 9:11 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2016 convention video Hey everyone, here's some gopro footage of the dive operations. Special thanks to Dan H and Gary Sluis for taking there subs! https://vimeo.com/177098928 Best, Alec -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 1 13:18:22 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 17:18:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2016 convention video In-Reply-To: <20160801093040.191B7D31@m0087796.ppops.net> References: <20160801093040.191B7D31@m0087796.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1237350381.7572633.1470071902178.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Alec,Thanks' for the video--looks like not bad?visability ?for this time of year. ?Hank On Monday, August 1, 2016 10:30 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nice footage !??? I'm curious as to the material used on the viewport flange retaining rings,? is that a black anodized finish ??? Looks really nice!? Also the black hatch, that just epoxy paint ??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2016 convention video Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 12:10:57 -0400 Hey everyone, here's some gopro footage of the dive operations. Special thanks to Dan H and Gary Sluis for taking there subs! https://vimeo.com/177098928 Best, Alec_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 1 14:37:12 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 14:37:12 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2016 convention video In-Reply-To: <1237350381.7572633.1470071902178.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160801093040.191B7D31@m0087796.ppops.net> <1237350381.7572633.1470071902178.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On the surface we had about 15 feet, but I'm told it was about 50 feet 90 feet down. Unfortunately I was just swimming around on the surface with a snorkel and not even a weight belt. Best, Alec On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 1:18 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Alec, > Thanks' for the video--looks like not bad visability for this time of > year. > Hank > > > On Monday, August 1, 2016 10:30 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Nice footage ! I'm curious as to the material used on the viewport > flange retaining rings, is that a black anodized finish ? Looks really > nice! Also the black hatch, that just epoxy paint ? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2016 convention video > Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 12:10:57 -0400 > > Hey everyone, here's some gopro footage of the dive operations. Special > thanks to Dan H and Gary Sluis for taking there subs! > > https://vimeo.com/177098928 > > > Best, > > Alec > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 1 17:17:29 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 17:17:29 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2016 Convention Photos Message-ID: <001f01d1ec3a$1c2944e0$547bcea0$@indy.rr.com> All, a few general photos are now published on the Psub site from the convention. Might give you an idea of what was experienced. Search for Events/Psub Convention 2106. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 12:08 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] @016 Convention Update Sounds like a good one ! Wish I was there ! With my sub !! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] @016 Convention Update Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 6:57:44 -0400 All, a quick convention update. We've had pretty much the expected attendance with some new faces joining. Do to some technical issues only 2 subs are in attendance but both safely carried out 2 days of diving ops. with several rides given. The visibility of lake Seneca clears up below approx. 50 feet I was told. Dives were made in 40-90 ft. depths just outside a breakwater area close to the Village Marina where we set up shop on the restaurant's patio area. Al Secor provided a nice support boat to assist in open water support. We have also had a good showing of spectators. Today is our technical sessions and the conference room at the Chamber of Commerce seems a good fit. The town of Watkins Glen has many local eateries where we have gathered to socialize in the evenings. As many know there is a famous race track in the area and it seems Porsche is the flavor of the week and many Porches can be seen being transported through the area. Thanks, Steve _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 1 17:17:29 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 17:17:29 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] @016 Convention Update In-Reply-To: References: <20160729105744.H1WNW.194964.root@cdptpa-web17> <666C723D-F676-4C6C-A10F-64BD843B93A0@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002401d1ec3a$1c542570$54fc7050$@indy.rr.com> No transmission this year but in the near future we will be posting some of the presentation materials. Steve From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 11:56 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] @016 Convention Update Thanks Steve for the report. My first missed year in 5 years. Are you doing a transmitted technical session? See you next year. On Jul 29, 2016 5:26 AM, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" > wrote: Thanks For the report Steve. Wish I was there. Maybe next year. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 29/07/2016, at 10:57 pm, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > All, a quick convention update. > > We've had pretty much the expected attendance with some new faces joining. Do to some technical issues only 2 subs are in attendance but both safely carried out 2 days of diving ops. with several rides given. The visibility of lake Seneca clears up below approx. 50 feet I was told. Dives were made in 40-90 ft. depths just outside a breakwater area close to the Village Marina where we set up shop on the restaurant's patio area. Al Secor provided a nice support boat to assist in open water support. We have also had a good showing of spectators. > > Today is our technical sessions and the conference room at the Chamber of Commerce seems a good fit. > > The town of Watkins Glen has many local eateries where we have gathered to socialize in the evenings. As many know there is a famous race track in the area and it seems Porsche is the flavor of the week and many Porches can be seen being transported through the area. > > Thanks, > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 2 04:54:05 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 09:54:05 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] @016 Convention Update In-Reply-To: <002401d1ec3a$1c542570$54fc7050$@indy.rr.com> References: <20160729105744.H1WNW.194964.root@cdptpa-web17> <666C723D-F676-4C6C-A10F-64BD843B93A0@yahoo.com> <002401d1ec3a$1c542570$54fc7050$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: Id be interested to see Alec's presentation. Well all of them really but that one is quite relevant to me. Thanks On 1 August 2016 at 22:17, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > No transmission this year but in the near future we will be posting some > of the presentation materials. > > > > Steve > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *David Colombo via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Friday, July 29, 2016 11:56 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] @016 Convention Update > > > > Thanks Steve for the report. My first missed year in 5 years. Are you > doing a transmitted technical session? See you next year. > > On Jul 29, 2016 5:26 AM, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks For the report Steve. > Wish I was there. Maybe next year. > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 29/07/2016, at 10:57 pm, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > All, a quick convention update. > > > > We've had pretty much the expected attendance with some new faces > joining. Do to some technical issues only 2 subs are in attendance but both > safely carried out 2 days of diving ops. with several rides given. The > visibility of lake Seneca clears up below approx. 50 feet I was told. > Dives were made in 40-90 ft. depths just outside a breakwater area close to > the Village Marina where we set up shop on the restaurant's patio area. Al > Secor provided a nice support boat to assist in open water support. We > have also had a good showing of spectators. > > > > Today is our technical sessions and the conference room at the Chamber > of Commerce seems a good fit. > > > > The town of Watkins Glen has many local eateries where we have gathered > to socialize in the evenings. As many know there is a famous race track in > the area and it seems Porsche is the flavor of the week and many Porches > can be seen being transported through the area. > > > > Thanks, > > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 2 08:10:03 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 08:10:03 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] @016 Convention Update In-Reply-To: References: <20160729105744.H1WNW.194964.root@cdptpa-web17> <666C723D-F676-4C6C-A10F-64BD843B93A0@yahoo.com> <002401d1ec3a$1c542570$54fc7050$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: <9acd96f4-32d7-4723-2678-6ed6178f4bc2@psubs.org> Steve McQueen, Do you have copies of all the presentations that you can send me so I can get them up on the web site? Jon On 8/2/2016 4:54 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Id be interested to see Alec's presentation. Well all of them really > but that one is quite relevant to me. From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 2 08:29:57 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 8:29:57 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2016 Convention Follow Up In-Reply-To: <9acd96f4-32d7-4723-2678-6ed6178f4bc2@psubs.org> Message-ID: <20160802122957.LEKP7.52753.root@cdptpa-web08> Jon, we tried but the thumb drive wasn't cooperating. I think Alec got Cliff's 2 presentations and of course will have his. I need to ask John Kammerer if he wants to provide his photo slide show. I also need to discuss if we have a budget to pay Al Secor for his fuel/use of boat? I believe one attendee handed his $20 so far. Thanks, Steve ---- Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Steve McQueen, > > Do you have copies of all the presentations that you can send me so I > can get them up on the web site? > > Jon > > > On 8/2/2016 4:54 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Id be interested to see Alec's presentation. Well all of them really > > but that one is quite relevant to me. > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 2 12:32:16 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 12:32:16 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location Message-ID: <006301d1ecdb$6ecff350$4c6fd9f0$@gmail.com> Question for the hive: where have you mounted your OTS transducer? On top? Wherever convenient? The acoustic hydrophone will be mounted on Harold's nose and the acoustic transducer will be mounted aft of the emergency buoy. Also plan to mount the VHF antenna and the upward facing depth transducer back there. I was thinking of mounting the OTS transducer on the forward main ballast tank frame - the lower bit, mounted on the outside. Brian --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 2 12:44:26 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 12:44:26 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location In-Reply-To: <006301d1ecdb$6ecff350$4c6fd9f0$@gmail.com> References: <006301d1ecdb$6ecff350$4c6fd9f0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: It'll work anywhere, but it'll work best where it has a line of sight to the other party's transducer. On Shackleton I'm mounting it on the CT hinge, as the top of the CT is the only place guaranteed to have a clear line of sight to the surface in all directions. The only downside is the comms won't work until submerged. Best, Alec On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 12:32 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Question for the hive: where have you mounted your OTS transducer? On > top? Wherever convenient? The acoustic hydrophone will be mounted on > Harold?s nose and the acoustic transducer will be mounted aft of the > emergency buoy. Also plan to mount the VHF antenna and the upward facing > depth transducer back there. > > > > I was thinking of mounting the OTS transducer on the forward main ballast > tank frame ? the lower bit, mounted on the outside. > > > > Brian > > > ------------------------------ > [image: Avast logo] > > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 2 15:09:34 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 15:09:34 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location In-Reply-To: References: <006301d1ecdb$6ecff350$4c6fd9f0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dad and I are planning to try a little experiment in regards to the mounting location of Snoopy's transducer array. The idea is to mount the array on a hinged whip behind the hatch. While she's on the surface the transducer will be under the waterline for surfaced communication with surface support (if the boat and sub are out of earshot of one another). When Snoopy submerges, the array's float lifts the mast erect over the sub, becoming the tallest part of the vessel while submerged. Just an idea, but we're keen to try it when we get the chance. One possible drawback is entanglement danger... we've been thinking a lot about that lately. ~ Doug S. On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > It'll work anywhere, but it'll work best where it has a line of sight to > the other party's transducer. On Shackleton I'm mounting it on the CT > hinge, as the top of the CT is the only place guaranteed to have a clear > line of sight to the surface in all directions. The only downside is the > comms won't work until submerged. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 12:32 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> >> >> Question for the hive: where have you mounted your OTS transducer? On >> top? Wherever convenient? The acoustic hydrophone will be mounted on >> Harold?s nose and the acoustic transducer will be mounted aft of the >> emergency buoy. Also plan to mount the VHF antenna and the upward facing >> depth transducer back there. >> >> >> >> I was thinking of mounting the OTS transducer on the forward main ballast >> tank frame ? the lower bit, mounted on the outside. >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> [image: Avast logo] >> >> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> www.avast.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 2 16:25:32 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 16:25:32 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location In-Reply-To: References: <006301d1ecdb$6ecff350$4c6fd9f0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <23acb630-79aa-770f-528c-8e4d3b0b9c45@psubs.org> Nothing wrong with Radio comms on surface, in fact you should have a VHF for ocean water anyway. Depending upon the location of the transducer on the vessel, at the surface you may find you don't have enough water column to communicate effectively. Test first. Jon On 8/2/2016 3:09 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Dad and I are planning to try a little experiment in regards to the > mounting location of Snoopy's transducer array. The idea is to mount > the array on a hinged whip behind the hatch. While she's on the > surface the transducer will be under the waterline for surfaced > communication with surface support (if the boat and sub are out of > earshot of one another). When Snoopy submerges, the array's float > lifts the mast erect over the sub, becoming the tallest part of the > vessel while submerged. > > Just an idea, but we're keen to try it when we get the chance. One > possible drawback is entanglement danger... we've been thinking a lot > about that lately. ~ Doug S. From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 2 16:29:38 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 16:29:38 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location In-Reply-To: <23acb630-79aa-770f-528c-8e4d3b0b9c45@psubs.org> References: <006301d1ecdb$6ecff350$4c6fd9f0$@gmail.com> <23acb630-79aa-770f-528c-8e4d3b0b9c45@psubs.org> Message-ID: 'Sound' thoughts Jon... :) ~ Doug S. On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Nothing wrong with Radio comms on surface, in fact you should have a VHF > for ocean water anyway. Depending upon the location of the transducer on > the vessel, at the surface you may find you don't have enough water column > to communicate effectively. Test first. > > Jon > > > On 8/2/2016 3:09 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Dad and I are planning to try a little experiment in regards to the >> mounting location of Snoopy's transducer array. The idea is to mount the >> array on a hinged whip behind the hatch. While she's on the surface the >> transducer will be under the waterline for surfaced communication with >> surface support (if the boat and sub are out of earshot of one another). >> When Snoopy submerges, the array's float lifts the mast erect over the sub, >> becoming the tallest part of the vessel while submerged. >> >> Just an idea, but we're keen to try it when we get the chance. One >> possible drawback is entanglement danger... we've been thinking a lot about >> that lately. ~ Doug S. >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 2 16:33:29 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 15:33:29 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location In-Reply-To: <006301d1ecdb$6ecff350$4c6fd9f0$@gmail.com> References: <006301d1ecdb$6ecff350$4c6fd9f0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Both the OTS transponder and VHF antenna are mounted just aft of the hatch on the R300 at the highest point on the sub. Has worked great except the OTS transponder is out of the water when the MBT is blown so no underwater coms until you submerge. Cliff On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 11:32 AM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Question for the hive: where have you mounted your OTS transducer? On > top? Wherever convenient? The acoustic hydrophone will be mounted on > Harold?s nose and the acoustic transducer will be mounted aft of the > emergency buoy. Also plan to mount the VHF antenna and the upward facing > depth transducer back there. > > > > I was thinking of mounting the OTS transducer on the forward main ballast > tank frame ? the lower bit, mounted on the outside. > > > > Brian > > > ------------------------------ > [image: Avast logo] > > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 2 18:23:41 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 18:23:41 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2016 Convention Follow Up In-Reply-To: <20160802122957.LEKP7.52753.root@cdptpa-web08> References: <20160802122957.LEKP7.52753.root@cdptpa-web08> Message-ID: <7CE69E4E-3D77-41C3-8333-EE49D80A7A84@optonline.net> Steve: I could update the project site or whatever you require. John K. (203) 414-1000 Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 2, 2016, at 8:29 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Jon, we tried but the thumb drive wasn't cooperating. I think Alec got Cliff's 2 presentations and of course will have his. > I need to ask John Kammerer if he wants to provide his photo slide show. > > I also need to discuss if we have a budget to pay Al Secor for his fuel/use of boat? I believe one attendee handed his $20 so far. > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Steve McQueen, >> >> Do you have copies of all the presentations that you can send me so I >> can get them up on the web site? >> >> Jon >> >> >>> On 8/2/2016 4:54 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Id be interested to see Alec's presentation. Well all of them really >>> but that one is quite relevant to me. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 2 18:42:28 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 22:42:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location In-Reply-To: References: <006301d1ecdb$6ecff350$4c6fd9f0$@gmail.com> <23acb630-79aa-770f-528c-8e4d3b0b9c45@psubs.org> Message-ID: <775574743.10039337.1470177748953.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Doug,sounds like a cunning plan!Be aware that it might work when the water surface is flat,but fail if there is too much of a wave.I'm with Jon on having a descent surface communication system.Alan From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2016 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location 'Sound' thoughts Jon... :) ~ Doug S. ? On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nothing wrong with Radio comms on surface, in fact you should have a VHF for ocean water anyway.? Depending upon the location of the transducer on the vessel, at the surface you may find you don't have enough water column to communicate effectively.? Test first. Jon On 8/2/2016 3:09 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Dad and I are planning to try a little experiment in regards to the mounting location of Snoopy's transducer array. The idea is to mount the array on a hinged whip behind the hatch. While she's on the surface the transducer will be under the waterline for surfaced communication with surface support (if the boat and sub are out of earshot of one another). When Snoopy submerges, the array's float lifts the mast erect over the sub, becoming the tallest part of the vessel while submerged. Just an idea, but we're keen to try it when we get the chance. One possible drawback is entanglement danger... we've been thinking a lot about that lately. ~ Doug S. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 2 19:07:01 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 19:07:01 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2016 Convention Follow Up In-Reply-To: <7CE69E4E-3D77-41C3-8333-EE49D80A7A84@optonline.net> References: <20160802122957.LEKP7.52753.root@cdptpa-web08> <7CE69E4E-3D77-41C3-8333-EE49D80A7A84@optonline.net> Message-ID: <005101d1ed12$941f79a0$bc5e6ce0$@indy.rr.com> John, updating your existing project site would be great. People interested in seeing the progress you shared at the convention can then just visit there. Thanks, Steve -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2016 6:24 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2016 Convention Follow Up Steve: I could update the project site or whatever you require. John K. (203) 414-1000 Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 2, 2016, at 8:29 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Jon, we tried but the thumb drive wasn't cooperating. I think Alec got Cliff's 2 presentations and of course will have his. > I need to ask John Kammerer if he wants to provide his photo slide show. > > I also need to discuss if we have a budget to pay Al Secor for his fuel/use of boat? I believe one attendee handed his $20 so far. > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Steve McQueen, >> >> Do you have copies of all the presentations that you can send me so I >> can get them up on the web site? >> >> Jon >> >> >>> On 8/2/2016 4:54 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Id be interested to see Alec's presentation. Well all of them >>> really but that one is quite relevant to me. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 2 20:50:51 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 20:50:51 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location In-Reply-To: <775574743.10039337.1470177748953.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <006301d1ecdb$6ecff350$4c6fd9f0$@gmail.com> <23acb630-79aa-770f-528c-8e4d3b0b9c45@psubs.org> <775574743.10039337.1470177748953.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Good point Alan, wave height is an issue on more than one hand with Snoopy (as I'm sure you're aware). BTW, we're starting to look seriously into building or buying a barge for the Keys. We've got to get Snoopy out to the oceanside more quickly than by towing her. ~ Doug S. On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Doug, > sounds like a cunning plan! > Be aware that it might work when the water surface is flat, > but fail if there is too much of a wave. > I'm with Jon on having a descent surface communication system. > Alan > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 3, 2016 8:29 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location > > 'Sound' thoughts Jon... :) ~ Doug S. > > On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Nothing wrong with Radio comms on surface, in fact you should have a VHF > for ocean water anyway. Depending upon the location of the transducer on > the vessel, at the surface you may find you don't have enough water column > to communicate effectively. Test first. > > Jon > > > On 8/2/2016 3:09 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Dad and I are planning to try a little experiment in regards to the > mounting location of Snoopy's transducer array. The idea is to mount the > array on a hinged whip behind the hatch. While she's on the surface the > transducer will be under the waterline for surfaced communication with > surface support (if the boat and sub are out of earshot of one another). > When Snoopy submerges, the array's float lifts the mast erect over the sub, > becoming the tallest part of the vessel while submerged. > > Just an idea, but we're keen to try it when we get the chance. One > possible drawback is entanglement danger... we've been thinking a lot about > that lately. ~ Doug S. > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 2 21:56:45 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 13:56:45 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location In-Reply-To: References: <006301d1ecdb$6ecff350$4c6fd9f0$@gmail.com> <23acb630-79aa-770f-528c-8e4d3b0b9c45@psubs.org> <775574743.10039337.1470177748953.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <923F861E-653E-4497-A173-C65782A8C901@yahoo.com> Doug, I have seen a number of inflatable pontoon systems for lifting boats above the water. They all used pumps to pump out the water. I wonder if there is merit in designing an inflatable pontoon that you could lower, & drive Snoopy on to, then fill with air & tow. It would solve the problem of boarding in rough seas, as you could climb in while it was up on the pontoons. The pontoons would also make it easier to board without bashing your boat against the sub. You would need a large barge if you are looking at hoisting in to the water. It wasn't the easiest in perfect conditions in to your canal. I think they use a ballasted platform in Hawaii ( similar idea) Scott might confirm that as he has just been there. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Good point Alan, wave height is an issue on more than one hand with Snoopy (as I'm sure you're aware). > > BTW, we're starting to look seriously into building or buying a barge for the Keys. We've got to get Snoopy out to the oceanside more quickly than by towing her. ~ Doug S. > >> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Doug, >> sounds like a cunning plan! >> Be aware that it might work when the water surface is flat, >> but fail if there is too much of a wave.av >> I'm with Jon on having a descent surface communication system. >> Alan >> >> >> >> From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2016 8:29 AM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location >> >> 'Sound' thoughts Jon... :) ~ Doug S. >> >> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Nothing wrong with Radio comms on surface, in fact you should have a VHF for ocean water anyway. Depending upon the location of the transducer on the vessel, at the surface you may find you don't have enough water column to communicate effectively. Test first. >> >> Jon >> >> >> On 8/2/2016 3:09 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Dad and I are planning to try a little experiment in regards to the mounting location of Snoopy's transducer array. The idea is to mount the array on a hinged whip behind the hatch. While she's on the surface the transducer will be under the waterline for surfaced communication with surface support (if the boat and sub are out of earshot of one another). When Snoopy submerges, the array's float lifts the mast erect over the sub, becoming the tallest part of the vessel while submerged. >> >> Just an idea, but we're keen to try it when we get the chance. One possible drawback is entanglement danger... we've been thinking a lot about that lately. ~ Doug S. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 2 22:33:16 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (John K. via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 22:33:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2016 Convention Follow Up In-Reply-To: <005101d1ed12$941f79a0$bc5e6ce0$@indy.rr.com> References: <20160802122957.LEKP7.52753.root@cdptpa-web08> <7CE69E4E-3D77-41C3-8333-EE49D80A7A84@optonline.net> <005101d1ed12$941f79a0$bc5e6ce0$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: <6429138c.8e710.1564e3f72f9.Webtop.44@optonline.net> Steve: Photos posted as convention update. John K. (203) 414-1000 On Tue, Aug 02, 2016 at 07:07 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > John, updating your existing project site would be great. > > People interested in seeing the progress you shared at the convention > can > then just visit there. > > Thanks, > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles > [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2016 6:24 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2016 Convention Follow Up > > Steve: > > I could update the project site or whatever you require. > > John K. > (203) 414-1000 > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 2, 2016, at 8:29 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Jon, we tried but the thumb drive wasn't cooperating. I think Alec >> got > Cliff's 2 presentations and of course will have his. >> I need to ask John Kammerer if he wants to provide his photo slide >> show. >> I also need to discuss if we have a budget to pay Al Secor for his > fuel/use of boat? I believe one attendee handed his $20 so far. >> >> Thanks, >> Steve >> >> ---- Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >>> >>> Steve McQueen, >>> >>> Do you have copies of all the presentations that you can send me so >>> I can get them up on the web site? >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> >>>> On 8/2/2016 4:54 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>> Id be interested to see Alec's presentation. Well all of them >>>> really but that one is quite relevant to me. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 3 10:41:24 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 10:41:24 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton stability spreadsheet Message-ID: Hi everyone, here's the spreadsheet I used in my convention presentation. Please be mindful this is highly questionable math from a thoroughly unqualified source. It contains design-specific formulas that will not work for other boats. It is, in short, completely unwarranted and your designs should not be based on it without considerable rework. But you might have some fun just noodling around. When you find errors, please do point them out. I recommend playing with the values on the Operational Dash sheet for a while first to get a feel for how this works, before trying to figure out the logic on the Calculations sheet. To explain some of the variables on the dash: Shackleton has up to four large floats arranged in a ring at the stern end of the hull, and you specify the number of floats with the variable "Stern float ring." Similarly, "Fifth stern float" is just a 1 or a 0 and refers to the sternmost float of all if used, and "Num forward floats" is the number of much smaller floats mounted on the forward half of the boat. The basic idea is that you weigh your passenger and pilot, and pick a combination of floats, weights, and weight tray position that gets you approximately neutral and trimmed. The boat has no VBT. Thanks, Alec -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Static stability Shackleton.xlsx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.spreadsheetml.sheet Size: 30165 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 3 11:24:13 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 16:24:13 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton stability spreadsheet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for sharing alec. I will check it out later. regards James On 3 August 2016 at 15:41, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi everyone, here's the spreadsheet I used in my convention presentation. > Please be mindful this is highly questionable math from a thoroughly > unqualified source. It contains design-specific formulas that will not work > for other boats. It is, in short, completely unwarranted and your designs > should not be based on it without considerable rework. But you might have > some fun just noodling around. When you find errors, please do point them > out. > > I recommend playing with the values on the Operational Dash sheet for a > while first to get a feel for how this works, before trying to figure out > the logic on the Calculations sheet. To explain some of the variables on > the dash: > > Shackleton has up to four large floats arranged in a ring at the stern end > of the hull, and you specify the number of floats with the variable "Stern > float ring." Similarly, "Fifth stern float" is just a 1 or a 0 and refers > to the sternmost float of all if used, and "Num forward floats" is the > number of much smaller floats mounted on the forward half of the boat. The > basic idea is that you weigh your passenger and pilot, and pick a > combination of floats, weights, and weight tray position that gets you > approximately neutral and trimmed. The boat has no VBT. > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 3 11:29:22 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 11:29:22 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton stability spreadsheet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh, first mistake found already. The "design objectives" sheet was not supposed to be there, it's about a decade out of date and irrelevant to the spreadsheet. Here's a version without it. On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 11:24 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks for sharing alec. I will check it out later. > > regards > James > > On 3 August 2016 at 15:41, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi everyone, here's the spreadsheet I used in my convention presentation. >> Please be mindful this is highly questionable math from a thoroughly >> unqualified source. It contains design-specific formulas that will not work >> for other boats. It is, in short, completely unwarranted and your designs >> should not be based on it without considerable rework. But you might have >> some fun just noodling around. When you find errors, please do point them >> out. >> >> I recommend playing with the values on the Operational Dash sheet for a >> while first to get a feel for how this works, before trying to figure out >> the logic on the Calculations sheet. To explain some of the variables on >> the dash: >> >> Shackleton has up to four large floats arranged in a ring at the stern >> end of the hull, and you specify the number of floats with the variable >> "Stern float ring." Similarly, "Fifth stern float" is just a 1 or a 0 and >> refers to the sternmost float of all if used, and "Num forward floats" is >> the number of much smaller floats mounted on the forward half of the boat. >> The basic idea is that you weigh your passenger and pilot, and pick a >> combination of floats, weights, and weight tray position that gets you >> approximately neutral and trimmed. The boat has no VBT. >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Alec >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Static stability Shackleton.xlsx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.spreadsheetml.sheet Size: 28485 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 3 21:29:40 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 01:29:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Transducer Location Message-ID: <4F30962637699C08.ac9ce6ea-17c0-42fa-8ed1-bcfef5faccff@mail.outlook.com> Thanks guys! Given the accoustic transducer will be for talking to divers in the water, I think I'll move that one down and hang it from the main ballast supports, moving the OTS to the top. Next year I can do a more extensive refit and add a through-hull to the top of Harold for all the stuff I want to mount there. See ... I'm also thinking about a tilt/pan camera on a short extension so I can pan and look down on all sides of Harold.? I found a site that will blow small half spheres and mount to an actylic tube.? So many toys, so many possibilities. I should add that I found a really decent garage machinest in my community and his next door neightbor is a pro welder. Score! Brian Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 3 22:10:56 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 02:10:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome References: <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> ? Hi all,need some?group input here.I was looking at a picture of Snoopy's dome that Doug posted on Facebook. (below)The 6 dome retainers that are made of plastic were making me nervous.There have been a couple of cases of domes blowing off. I think? George Kitrigewas one of them. So I wanted a bit of analysis on this scenario in general.What sort of overpressure can you expect at a maximum on a dive?Doug's overpressure valve operates at .5psi but if you were 3psi overpressurethe valve wouldn't operate till you were 5ft from the surface & you would have a shorttime to get the pressure down. Also wave movement would factor in & fluctuate the pressure quickly at that depth.I think the K250 dome is 24" diameter. I calculated out that there would be 452lb pressure on the dome retainers for every 1psi overpressure. I based this on the area of a 24" disc, or should I be basing it on the area of the dome? (Sean)At 3psi that would be 226lb lifting force on each of those 6 plastic retainers!What is a good safety factor here? (Sorry for picking on Snoopy Alec)Cheers Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Snoopy's dome.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 326483 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 3 22:49:26 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2016 20:49:26 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome In-Reply-To: <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The force acting on the dome from the inside is the internal pressure multiplied by the 2D projected area encapsulated by the innermost seal. For example, if your dome is 24" ID and 26" OD (1" thick), if it seats against a single o-ring at the mid diameter, the area would be A = ?(12.5)^2 = 491 in. ^2 . Conversely, if the entire window thickness sits against a bearing gasket, the seal extends to the ID, so A = ?(12)^2 = 452 in. ^2 . The internal cabin pressure acts uniformly across the entire window, but the external sea pressure does not. Across a 26" OD window, the pressure at the bottom of the window is about 1 psi greater than at the top, so in the absence of proper retention, it would preferentially pull away at the top in the event of overpressure. As far as what to expect, that number should be zero. The only way you will encounter overpressure is if something is leaking gas into the cabin, or if there is a dramatic temperature increase. Your dome retainers need only be strong enough to hold the dome against its seal at whatever delta-P activates the OPV, or some margin above that if it is a slow valve. As a thought, I might be inclined to spring load the retainer arrangement, so if you have a full bottle dump or some other (otherwise) catastrophic event increasing cabin pressure, the dome could vent that gas until it dropped below the spring load, and then the OPV or manual equalizing arrangements would deal with the rest. Of course, you should avoid that possibility in design, but I'm just throwing that out there. Sean On August 3, 2016 8:10:56 PM MDT, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >? Hi all,need some?group input here.I was looking at a picture of >Snoopy's dome that Doug posted on Facebook. (below)The 6 dome retainers >that are made of plastic were making me nervous.There have been a >couple of cases of domes blowing off. I think? George Kitrigewas one of >them. So I wanted a bit of analysis on this scenario in general.What >sort of overpressure can you expect at a maximum on a dive?Doug's >overpressure valve operates at .5psi but if you were 3psi >overpressurethe valve wouldn't operate till you were 5ft from the >surface & you would have a shorttime to get the pressure down. Also >wave movement would factor in & fluctuate the pressure quickly at that >depth.I think the K250 dome is 24" diameter. I calculated out that >there would be 452lb pressure on the dome retainers for every 1psi >overpressure. I based this on the area of a 24" disc, or should I be >basing it on the area of the dome? (Sean)At 3psi that would be 226lb >lifting force on each of those 6 plastic retainers!What is a good >safety factor here? (Sorry for picking on Snoopy Alec)Cheers Alan > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 3 22:59:43 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2016 20:59:43 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome In-Reply-To: References: <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I should add to this that the dome wants to rise as a result of its own buoyancy (~150 lbf for a 24" ID hemisphere), and needs to be held to its seat with enough force to counter that, in addition to countering any positive pressure load from the inside. The former effect is likely more important than the latter. Sean On August 3, 2016 8:49:26 PM MDT, "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >The force acting on the dome from the inside is the internal pressure >multiplied by the 2D projected area encapsulated by the innermost seal. >For example, if your dome is 24" ID and 26" OD (1" thick), if it seats >against a single o-ring at the mid diameter, the area would be A = >?(12.5)^2 = 491 in. ^2 . Conversely, if the entire window thickness >sits against a bearing gasket, the seal extends to the ID, so A = >?(12)^2 = 452 in. ^2 . > >The internal cabin pressure acts uniformly across the entire window, >but the external sea pressure does not. Across a 26" OD window, the >pressure at the bottom of the window is about 1 psi greater than at the >top, so in the absence of proper retention, it would preferentially >pull away at the top in the event of overpressure. > >As far as what to expect, that number should be zero. The only way you >will encounter overpressure is if something is leaking gas into the >cabin, or if there is a dramatic temperature increase. > >Your dome retainers need only be strong enough to hold the dome against >its seal at whatever delta-P activates the OPV, or some margin above >that if it is a slow valve. As a thought, I might be inclined to spring >load the retainer arrangement, so if you have a full bottle dump or >some other (otherwise) catastrophic event increasing cabin pressure, >the dome could vent that gas until it dropped below the spring load, >and then the OPV or manual equalizing arrangements would deal with the >rest. Of course, you should avoid that possibility in design, but I'm >just throwing that out there. > >Sean > > >On August 3, 2016 8:10:56 PM MDT, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >>? Hi all,need some?group input here.I was looking at a picture of >>Snoopy's dome that Doug posted on Facebook. (below)The 6 dome >retainers >>that are made of plastic were making me nervous.There have been a >>couple of cases of domes blowing off. I think? George Kitrigewas one >of >>them. So I wanted a bit of analysis on this scenario in general.What >>sort of overpressure can you expect at a maximum on a dive?Doug's >>overpressure valve operates at .5psi but if you were 3psi >>overpressurethe valve wouldn't operate till you were 5ft from the >>surface & you would have a shorttime to get the pressure down. Also >>wave movement would factor in & fluctuate the pressure quickly at that >>depth.I think the K250 dome is 24" diameter. I calculated out that >>there would be 452lb pressure on the dome retainers for every 1psi >>overpressure. I based this on the area of a 24" disc, or should I be >>basing it on the area of the dome? (Sean)At 3psi that would be 226lb >>lifting force on each of those 6 plastic retainers!What is a good >>safety factor here? (Sorry for picking on Snoopy Alec)Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 3 23:11:00 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 20:11:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2016 convention video In-Reply-To: References: <20160801093040.191B7D31@m0087796.ppops.net> <1237350381.7572633.1470071902178.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alec, Great Video, Sorry I missed this year. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 11:37 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > On the surface we had about 15 feet, but I'm told it was about 50 feet 90 > feet down. Unfortunately I was just swimming around on the surface with a > snorkel and not even a weight belt. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 1:18 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi Alec, >> Thanks' for the video--looks like not bad visability for this time of >> year. >> Hank >> >> >> On Monday, August 1, 2016 10:30 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Nice footage ! I'm curious as to the material used on the viewport >> flange retaining rings, is that a black anodized finish ? Looks really >> nice! Also the black hatch, that just epoxy paint ? >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2016 convention video >> Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 12:10:57 -0400 >> >> Hey everyone, here's some gopro footage of the dive operations. Special >> thanks to Dan H and Gary Sluis for taking there subs! >> >> https://vimeo.com/177098928 >> >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 3 23:52:30 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 15:52:30 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome In-Reply-To: References: <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0474610C-3E0B-4274-A497-43050F85B462@yahoo.com> Sean, thanks for the maths. I was thinking that the scenario could arise where you dive with an internal temperature of say 30C & set a bellows add system for the pressure at that temperature. Then as you dived down to cool water the temperature in the sub dropped to 15C. The air pressure in the sub would gradually halve but the bellows add system would build the pressure up with added O2. If you rose to near the surface & cruised around letting the sub warm up, you could potentially raise the pressure by quite a bit. Hopefully you would notice that the O2 % was high in the first place, but if you didn't & the dome retainers weren't substantial, it could contribute to a catastrophic situation. Hmmm think I'll put in an overpressure alarm! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 4/08/2016, at 2:49 pm, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > The force acting on the dome from the inside is the internal pressure multiplied by the 222D projected area encapsulated by the innermost seal. For example, if your dome is 24" ID and 26" OD (1" thick), if it seats against a single o-ring at the mid diameter, the area would be A = ?(12.5)^2 = 491 in. ^2 . Conversely, if the entire window thickness sits against a bearing gasket, the seal extends to the ID, so A = ?(12)^2 = 452 in. ^2 . > > The internal cabin pressure acts uniformly across the entire window, but the external sea pressure does not. Across a 26" OD window, the pressure at the bottom of the window is about 1 psi greater than at the top, so in the absence of proper retention, it would preferentially pull away at the top in the event of overpressure. > > As far as what to expect, that number should be zero. The only way you will encounter overpressure is if something is leaking gas into the cabin, or if there is a dramatic temperature increase. > > Your dome retainers need only be strong enough to hold the dome against its seal at whatever delta-P activates the OPV, or some margin above that if it is a slow valve. As a thought, I might be inclined to spring load the retainer arrangement, so if you have a full bottle dump or some other (otherwise) catastrophic event increasing cabin pressure, the dome could vent that gas until it dropped below the spring load, and then the OPV or manual equalizing arrangements would deal with the rest. Of course, you should avoid that possibility in design, but I'm just throwing that out there. > > Sean > > >> On August 3, 2016 8:10:56 PM MDT, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hi all, >> need some group input here. >> I was looking at a picture of Snoopy's dome that Doug posted on Facebook. (below) >> The 6 dome retainers that are made of plastic were making me nervous. >> There have been a couple of cases of domes blowing off. I think George Kitrige >> was one of them. So I wanted a bit of analysis on this scenario in general. >> What sort of overpressure can you expect at a max! imum on a dive? >> Doug's overpressure valve operates at .5psi but if you were 3psi overpressure >> the valve wouldn't operate till you were 5ft from the surface & you would have a short >> time to get the pressure down. Also wave movement would factor in & fluctuate the pressure quickly at that depth. >> I think the K250 dome is 24" diameter. I calculated out that there would be 452lb >> pressure on the dome retainers for every 1psi overpressure. I based this on the area >> of a 24" disc, or should I be basing it on the area of the dome? (Sean) >> At 3psi that would ! be 226lb lifting force on each of those 6 plastic retainers! >> What is a good safety factor here? (Sorry for picking on Snoopy Alec) >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 4 00:04:20 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 16:04:20 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome In-Reply-To: <0474610C-3E0B-4274-A497-43050F85B462@yahoo.com> References: <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <0474610C-3E0B-4274-A497-43050F85B462@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sorry, the air temperature in the bellows probably wouldn't lag that far behind the air temperature in the sub & so wouldn't increase the pressure much. Yes there would need to be some major leak. However there has been a couple of incidents! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 4/08/2016, at 3:52 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Sean, > thanks for the maths. > I was thinking that the scenario could arise where you dive with an internal > temperature of say 30C & set a bellows add system for the pressure at that > temperature. Then as you dived down to cool water the temperature in the > sub dropped to 15C. The air pressure in the sub would gradually halve but the > bellows add system would build the pressure up with added O2. If you rose > to near the surface & cruised around letting the sub warm up, you > could potentially raise the pressure by quite a bit. Hopefully you would notice > that the O2 % was high in the first place, but if you didn't & the dome retainers > weren't substantial, it could contribute to a catastrophic situation. > Hmmm think I'll put in an overpressure alarm! > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 4/08/2016, at 2:49 pm, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> The force acting on the dome from the inside is the internal pressure multiplied by the 222D projected area encapsulated by the innermost seal. For example, if your dome is 24" ID and 26" OD (1" thick), if it seats against a single o-ring at the mid diameter, the area would be A = ?(12.5)^2 = 491 in. ^2 . Conversely, if the entire window thickness sits against a bearing gasket, the seal extends to the ID, so A = ?(12)^2 = 452 in. ^2 . >> >> The internal cabin pressure acts uniformly across the entire window, but the external sea pressure does not. Across a 26" OD window, the pressure at the bottom of the window is about 1 psi greater than at the top, so in the absence of proper retention, it would preferentially pull away at the top in the event of overpressure. >> >> As far as what to expect, that number should be zero. The only way you will encounter overpressure is if something is leaking gas into the cabin, or if there is a dramatic temperature increase. >> >> Your dome retainers need only be strong enough to hold the dome against its seal at whatever delta-P activates the OPV, or some margin above that if it is a slow valve. As a thought, I might be inclined to spring load the retainer arrangement, so if you have a full bottle dump or some other (otherwise) catastrophic event increasing cabin pressure, the dome could vent that gas until it dropped below the spring load, and then the OPV or manual equalizing arrangements would deal with the rest. Of course, you should avoid that possibility in design, but I'm just throwing that out there. >> >> Sean >> >> >>> On August 3, 2016 8:10:56 PM MDT, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> need some group input here. >>> I was looking at a picture of Snoopy's dome that Doug posted on Facebook. (below) >>> The 6 dome retainers that are made of plastic were making me nervous. >>> There have been a couple of cases of domes blowing off. I think George Kitrige >>> was one of them. So I wanted a bit of analysis on this scenario in general. >>> What sort of overpressure can you expect at a max! imum on a dive? >>> Doug's overpressure valve operates at .5psi but if you were 3psi overpressure >>> the valve wouldn't operate till you were 5ft from the surface & you would have a short >>> time to get the pressure down. Also wave movement would factor in & fluctuate the pressure quickly at that depth. >>> I think the K250 dome is 24" diameter. I calculated out that there would be 452lb >>> pressure on the dome retainers for every 1psi overpressure. I based this on the area >>> of a 24" disc, or should I be basing it on the area of the dome? (Sean) >>> At 3psi that would ! be 226lb lifting force on each of those 6 plastic retainers! >>> What is a good safety factor here? (Sorry for picking on Snoopy Alec) >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 4 00:42:45 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 04:42:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome In-Reply-To: References: <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <0474610C-3E0B-4274-A497-43050F85B462@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <239305071.11172545.1470285765718.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I was thinking that if air temperature was above water temperature,(as you would get in Canada) then you could potentially get overpressure.One guy on the internet was saying that his lake temperature was 26C & the air temperature was 10C. In this case the pressure in asub could?increase by a couple of psi?through?the higher water temperature, body & electrical heat. Alan From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2016 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome Sorry, the air temperature in the bellows probablywouldn't lag that far behind the air temperature in the sub & sowouldn't increase the pressure much.Yes there would need to be some major leak.However there has been a couple of incidents!Alan ? Sent from my iPad On 4/08/2016, at 3:52 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean,thanks for the maths.I was thinking that the scenario could arise where you dive with an internaltemperature of say 30C & set a bellows add system for the pressure at thattemperature. Then as you dived down to cool water the temperature in thesub dropped to 15C. The air pressure in the sub would gradually halve but the?bellows add system would build the pressure up with added O2. If you rose?to near the surface & cruised around letting the sub warm up, youcould potentially raise the pressure by quite a bit. Hopefully you would noticethat the O2 % was high in the first place, but if you didn't & the dome retainersweren't substantial, it could contribute to a catastrophic situation.Hmmm think I'll put in an overpressure alarm!Alan Sent from my iPad On 4/08/2016, at 2:49 pm, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: The force acting on the dome from the inside is the internal pressure multiplied by the 222D projected area encapsulated by the innermost seal. For example, if your dome is 24" ID and 26" OD (1" thick), if it seats against a single o-ring at the mid diameter, the area would be A = ?(12.5)^2 = 491 in. ^2 . Conversely, if the entire window thickness sits against a bearing gasket, the seal extends to the ID, so A = ?(12)^2 = 452 in. ^2 .The internal cabin pressure acts uniformly across the entire window, but the external sea pressure does not. Across a 26" OD window, the pressure at the bottom of the window is about 1 psi greater than at the top, so in the absence of proper retention, it would preferentially pull away at the top in the event of overpressure.As far as what to expect, that number should be zero. The only way you will encounter overpressure is if something is leaking gas into the cabin, or if there is a dramatic temperature increase.Your dome retainers need only be strong enough to hold the dome against its seal at whatever delta-P activates the OPV, or some margin above that if it is a slow valve. As a thought, I might be inclined to spring load the retainer arrangement, so if you have a full bottle dump or some other (otherwise) catastrophic event increasing cabin pressure, the dome could vent that gas until it dropped below the spring load, and then the OPV or manual equalizing arrangements would deal with the rest. Of course, you should avoid that possibility in design, but I'm just throwing that out there.Sean On August 3, 2016 8:10:56 PM MDT, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hi all,need some?group input here.I was looking at a picture of Snoopy's dome that Doug posted on Facebook. (below)The 6 dome retainers that are made of plastic were making me nervous.There have been a couple of cases of domes blowing off. I think? George Kitrigewas one of them. So I wanted a bit of analysis on this scenario in general.What sort of overpressure can you expect at a max! imum ona dive?Doug's overpressure valve operates at .5psi but if you were 3psi overpressurethe valve wouldn't operate till you were 5ft from the surface & you would have a shorttime to get the pressure down. Also wave movement would factor in & fluctuate the pressure quickly at that depth.I think the K250 dome is 24" diameter. I calculated out that there would be 452lb pressure on the dome retainers for every 1psi overpressure. I based this on the area of a 24" disc, or should I be basing it on the area of the dome? (Sean)At 3psi that would ! be 226lblifting force on each of those 6 plastic retainers!What is a good safety factor here? (Sorry for picking on Snoopy Alec)Cheers Alan Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 4 08:22:44 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 12:22:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome In-Reply-To: <239305071.11172545.1470285765718.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <0474610C-3E0B-4274-A497-43050F85B462@yahoo.com> <239305071.11172545.1470285765718.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1734683999.9186216.1470313364645.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,It seems to me you should have sufficient dome retaining to hold the dome in place with all Hp products fully vented into the sub. ?I am sure that the retainers on Snoopy's dome can do that. ?I prefer straps,not saying it is a must, but when in doubt, go big. ?Hank On Wednesday, August 3, 2016 10:43 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I was thinking that if air temperature was above water temperature,(as you would get in Canada) then you could potentially get overpressure.One guy on the internet was saying that his lake temperature was 26C & the air temperature was 10C. In this case the pressure in asub could?increase by a couple of psi?through?the higher water temperature, body & electrical heat. Alan From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2016 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome Sorry, the air temperature in the bellows probablywouldn't lag that far behind the air temperature in the sub & sowouldn't increase the pressure much.Yes there would need to be some major leak.However there has been a couple of incidents!Alan ? Sent from my iPad On 4/08/2016, at 3:52 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean,thanks for the maths.I was thinking that the scenario could arise where you dive with an internaltemperature of say 30C & set a bellows add system for the pressure at thattemperature. Then as you dived down to cool water the temperature in thesub dropped to 15C. The air pressure in the sub would gradually halve but the?bellows add system would build the pressure up with added O2. If you rose?to near the surface & cruised around letting the sub warm up, youcould potentially raise the pressure by quite a bit. Hopefully you would noticethat the O2 % was high in the first place, but if you didn't & the dome retainersweren't substantial, it could contribute to a catastrophic situation.Hmmm think I'll put in an overpressure alarm!Alan Sent from my iPad On 4/08/2016, at 2:49 pm, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: The force acting on the dome from the inside is the internal pressure multiplied by the 222D projected area encapsulated by the innermost seal. For example, if your dome is 24" ID and 26" OD (1" thick), if it seats against a single o-ring at the mid diameter, the area would be A = ?(12.5)^2 = 491 in. ^2 . Conversely, if the entire window thickness sits against a bearing gasket, the seal extends to the ID, so A = ?(12)^2 = 452 in. ^2 .The internal cabin pressure acts uniformly across the entire window, but the external sea pressure does not. Across a 26" OD window, the pressure at the bottom of the window is about 1 psi greater than at the top, so in the absence of proper retention, it would preferentially pull away at the top in the event of overpressure.As far as what to expect, that number should be zero. The only way you will encounter overpressure is if something is leaking gas into the cabin, or if there is a dramatic temperature increase.Your dome retainers need only be strong enough to hold the dome against its seal at whatever delta-P activates the OPV, or some margin above that if it is a slow valve. As a thought, I might be inclined to spring load the retainer arrangement, so if you have a full bottle dump or some other (otherwise) catastrophic event increasing cabin pressure, the dome could vent that gas until it dropped below the spring load, and then the OPV or manual equalizing arrangements would deal with the rest. Of course, you should avoid that possibility in design, but I'm just throwing that out there.Sean On August 3, 2016 8:10:56 PM MDT, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hi all,need some?group input here.I was looking at a picture of Snoopy's dome that Doug posted on Facebook. (below)The 6 dome retainers that are made of plastic were making me nervous.There have been a couple of cases of domes blowing off. I think? George Kitrigewas one of them. So I wanted a bit of analysis on this scenario in general.What sort of overpressure can you expect at a max! imum ona dive?Doug's overpressure valve operates at .5psi but if you were 3psi overpressurethe valve wouldn't operate till you were 5ft from the surface & you would have a shorttime to get the pressure down. Also wave movement would factor in & fluctuate the pressure quickly at that depth.I think the K250 dome is 24" diameter. I calculated out that there would be 452lb pressure on the dome retainers for every 1psi overpressure. I based this on the area of a 24" disc, or should I be basing it on the area of the dome? (Sean)At 3psi that would ! be 226lblifting force on each of those 6 plastic retainers!What is a good safety factor here? (Sorry for picking on Snoopy Alec)Cheers Alan Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 4 08:40:16 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 00:40:16 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome In-Reply-To: References: <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <062350B7-A8B8-4CF1-9C1F-A7455CDD0C66@yahoo.com> G.L. are saying that hatches should be tested with an internal pressure of 1.3 bar absolute. So that's a 4.5psi overpressure. With the K250 dome that equals a 2,034 lb lifting force on the dome retainers. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 4/08/2016, at 2:59 pm, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I should add to this that the dome wants to rise as a result of its own buoyancy (~150 lbf for a 24" ID hemisphere), and needs to be held to its seat with enough force to counter that, in addition to countering any positive pressure load from the inside. The former effect is likely more important than the latter. > > Sean > > >> On August 3, 2016 8:49:26 PM MDT, "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >> The force acting on the dome from the inside is the internal pressure multiplied by the 2D projected area encapsulated by the innermost seal. For example, if your dome is 24" ID and 26" OD (1" thick), if it seats against a single o-ring at the mid diameter, the area would be A = ?(12.5)^2 = 491 in. ^2 . Conversely, if the entire window thickness sits against a bearing gasket, the seal extends to the ID, so A = ?(12)^2 = 452 in. ^2 . >> >> The internal cabin pressure acts uniformly across the entire window, but the external sea pressure does not. Across a 26" OD window, the pressure at the bottom of the window is about 1 psi greater than at the top, so in the absence of proper retention, it would preferentially pull away at the top in the event of overpressure. >> >> As far as what to expect, that number should be zero. The only way you will encounter overpressure is if something is leaking gas into the cabin, or if there is a dramatic temperature increase. >> >> Your dome retainers need only be strong enough to hold the dome against its seal at whatever delta-P activates the OPV, or some margin above that if it is a slow valve. As a thought, I might be inclined to spring load the retainer arrangement, so if you have a full bottle dump or some other (otherwise) catastrophic event increasing cabin pressure, the dome could vent that gas until it dropped below the spring load, and then the OPV or manual equalizing arrangements would deal with the rest. Of course, you should avoid that possibility in design, but I'm just throwing that out there. >> >> Sean >> >> >>> On August 3, 2016 8:10:56 PM MDT, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> need some group input here. >>> I was looking at a picture of Snoopy's dome that Doug posted on Facebook. (below) >>> The 6 dome retainers that are made of plastic were making me nervous. >>> There have been a couple of cases of domes blowing off. I think George Kitrige >>> was one of them. So I wanted a bit of analysis on this scenario in general. >>> What sort of overpressure can you expect at a max! imum on a dive? >>> Doug's overpressure valve operates at .5psi but if you were 3psi overpressure >>> the valve wouldn't operate till you were 5ft from the surface & you would have a short >>> time to get the pressure down. Also wave movement would factor in & fluctuate the pressure quickly at that depth. >>> I think the K250 dome is 24" diameter. I calculated out that there would be 452lb >>> pressure on the dome retainers for every 1psi overpressure. I based this on the area >>> of a 24" disc, or should I be basing it on the area of the dome? (Sean) >>> At 3psi that would ! be 226lb lifting force on each of those 6 plastic retainers! >>> What is a good safety factor here? (Sorry for picking on Snoopy Alec) >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing li! >> st >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 4 08:41:47 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 08:41:47 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome In-Reply-To: <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yep, this is why the cabin pressure gauge and the OP valve are right in front of the pilot. In a K250 the dome makes it particularly apparent, but I would suggest the same approach be taken in any sub with viewports. Temperature changes are routine and on some dives the hull can feel like an ice maker. It's normal for temperature change to reduce cabin pressure, but I've never encountered the opposite situation. In my mind it's the small, slow, unnoticed air leaks that you want to look out for. Not a SCUBA tank exploding but a valve stem that leaks a tiny amount of air. Those would also mess up life support if it were automatic and based off cabin pressure. So just keep your eye on that cabin pressure gauge, it's there for a good reason and is sensitive. For the record, the OP valve cracking pressure is adjustable with a knob, it's not hard set at 1/2 psi. Best, Alec On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 10:10 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi all, > need some group input here. > I was looking at a picture of Snoopy's dome that Doug posted on Facebook. > (below) > The 6 dome retainers that are made of plastic were making me nervous. > There have been a couple of cases of domes blowing off. I think George > Kitrige > was one of them. So I wanted a bit of analysis on this scenario in general. > What sort of overpressure can you expect at a maximum on a dive? > Doug's overpressure valve operates at .5psi but if you were 3psi > overpressure > the valve wouldn't operate till you were 5ft from the surface & you would > have a short > time to get the pressure down. Also wave movement would factor in & > fluctuate the pressure quickly at that depth. > I think the K250 dome is 24" diameter. I calculated out that there would > be 452lb > pressure on the dome retainers for every 1psi overpressure. I based this > on the area > of a 24" disc, or should I be basing it on the area of the dome? (Sean) > At 3psi that would be 226lb lifting force on each of those 6 plastic > retainers! > What is a good safety factor here? (Sorry for picking on Snoopy Alec) > Cheers Alan > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 4 08:51:59 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 08:51:59 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome In-Reply-To: <1734683999.9186216.1470313364645.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <0474610C-3E0B-4274-A497-43050F85B462@yahoo.com> <239305071.11172545.1470285765718.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1734683999.9186216.1470313364645.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, I don't think there's any way a K boat hatch, 250 or 350, would hold that in. Tanks on the outside with shutoff valves are a mitigating solution, but an OP valve I'd argue is best because it's automatic and kicks in instantaneously. The 250 hatch is particularly hard to strengthen because the ring that receives the acrylic is pretty lightweight, meaning if you were to put enormous dogs on it the ring itself would probably bend. In short, I don't think it's feasible to harden the K250 hatch against over-pressure, so the way to protect against that is with the OP valve. Best, Alec On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 8:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alan, > It seems to me you should have sufficient dome retaining to hold the dome > in place with all Hp products fully vented into the sub. I am sure that > the retainers on Snoopy's dome can do that. I prefer straps,not saying it > is a must, but when in doubt, go big. > Hank > > > On Wednesday, August 3, 2016 10:43 PM, Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I was thinking that if air temperature was above water temperature, > (as you would get in Canada) then you could potentially get overpressure. > One guy on the internet was saying that his lake temperature was > 26C & the air temperature was 10C. In this case the pressure in a > sub could increase by a couple of psi through the higher water > temperature, > body & electrical heat. > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alan via Personal_Submersibles > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, August 4, 2016 4:04 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome > > Sorry, the air temperature in the bellows probably > wouldn't lag that far behind the air temperature in the sub & so > wouldn't increase the pressure much. > Yes there would need to be some major leak. > However there has been a couple of incidents! > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 4/08/2016, at 3:52 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Sean, > thanks for the maths. > I was thinking that the scenario could arise where you dive with an > internal > temperature of say 30C & set a bellows add system for the pressure at that > temperature. Then as you dived down to cool water the temperature in the > sub dropped to 15C. The air pressure in the sub would gradually halve but > the > bellows add system would build the pressure up with added O2. If you rose > to near the surface & cruised around letting the sub warm up, you > could potentially raise the pressure by quite a bit. Hopefully you would > notice > that the O2 % was high in the first place, but if you didn't & the dome > retainers > weren't substantial, it could contribute to a catastrophic situation. > Hmmm think I'll put in an overpressure alarm! > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 4/08/2016, at 2:49 pm, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > The force acting on the dome from the inside is the internal pressure > multiplied by the 222D projected area encapsulated by the innermost seal. > For example, if your dome is 24" ID and 26" OD (1" thick), if it seats > against a single o-ring at the mid diameter, the area would be A = > ?(12.5)^2 = 491 in. ^2 . Conversely, if the entire window thickness sits > against a bearing gasket, the seal extends to the ID, so A = ?(12)^2 = 452 > in. ^2 . > The internal cabin pressure acts uniformly across the entire window, but > the external sea pressure does not. Across a 26" OD window, the pressure at > the bottom of the window is about 1 psi greater than at the top, so in the > absence of proper retention, it would preferentially pull away at the top > in the event of overpressure. > As far as what to expect, that number should be zero. The only way you > will encounter overpressure is if something is leaking gas into the cabin, > or if there is a dramatic temperature increase. > Your dome retainers need only be strong enough to hold the dome against > its seal at whatever delta-P activates the OPV, or some margin above that > if it is a slow valve. As a thought, I might be inclined to spring load the > retainer arrangement, so if you have a full bottle dump or some other > (otherwise) catastrophic event increasing cabin pressure, the dome could > vent that gas until it dropped below the spring load, and then the OPV or > manual equalizing arrangements would deal with the rest. Of course, you > should avoid that possibility in design, but I'm just throwing that out > there. > Sean > > > On August 3, 2016 8:10:56 PM MDT, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi all, > need some group input here. > I was looking at a picture of Snoopy's dome that Doug posted on Facebook. > (below) > The 6 dome retainers that are made of plastic were making me nervous. > There have been a couple of cases of domes blowing off. I think George > Kitrige > was one of them. So I wanted a bit of analysis on this scenario in general. > What sort of overpressure can you expect at a max! imum on a dive? > Doug's overpressure valve operates at .5psi but if you were 3psi > overpressure > the valve wouldn't operate till you were 5ft from the surface & you would > have a short > time to get the pressure down. Also wave movement would factor in & > fluctuate the pressure quickly at that depth. > I think the K250 dome is 24" diameter. I calculated out that there would > be 452lb > pressure on the dome retainers for every 1psi overpressure. I based this > on the area > of a 24" disc, or should I be basing it on the area of the dome? (Sean) > At 3psi that would ! be 226lb lifting force on each of those 6 plastic > retainers! > What is a good safety factor here? (Sorry for picking on Snoopy Alec) > Cheers Alan > > > > ------------------------------ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 4 16:43:40 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 20:43:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome In-Reply-To: References: <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <0474610C-3E0B-4274-A497-43050F85B462@yahoo.com> <239305071.11172545.1470285765718.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1734683999.9186216.1470313364645.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1654842992.9262770.1470343420406.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I think there is an ABS rule that says you can not have more HP gases than the ports or dome can retain. ?An over pressure valve is fine if it is big and you can hold your depth in the water column. ?I think of deflating a big inner tube with the valve stem removed. ?If you have such a situation that requires an over pressure valve to save the day, then there is?likely a lot of stuff going on that would be stressful. ?I say build so your sub can handle the over pressure and have an over?pressure valve to boot. ?Can't a K250 have a stronger ring, with straps like Emile has and DW'sI remember Vance saying "copy what the pro's are doing"Hank On Thursday, August 4, 2016 6:52 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, I don't think there's any way a K boat hatch, 250 or 350, would hold that in. Tanks on the outside with shutoff valves are a mitigating solution, but an OP valve I'd argue is best because it's automatic and kicks in instantaneously. The 250 hatch is particularly hard to strengthen because the ring that receives the acrylic is pretty lightweight, meaning if you were to put enormous dogs on it the ring itself would probably bend. In short, I don't think it's feasible to harden the K250 hatch against over-pressure, so the way to protect against that is with the OP valve. Best, Alec On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 8:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,It seems to me you should have sufficient dome retaining to hold the dome in place with all Hp products fully vented into the sub.? I am sure that the retainers on Snoopy's dome can do that.? I prefer straps,not saying it is a must, but when in doubt, go big. ?Hank On Wednesday, August 3, 2016 10:43 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I was thinking that if air temperature was above water temperature,(as you would get in Canada) then you could potentially get overpressure.One guy on the internet was saying that his lake temperature was 26C & the air temperature was 10C. In this case the pressure in asub could?increase by a couple of psi?through?the higher water temperature, body & electrical heat. Alan From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2016 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome Sorry, the air temperature in the bellows probablywouldn't lag that far behind the air temperature in the sub & sowouldn't increase the pressure much.Yes there would need to be some major leak.However there has been a couple of incidents!Alan ? Sent from my iPad On 4/08/2016, at 3:52 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean,thanks for the maths.I was thinking that the scenario could arise where you dive with an internaltemperature of say 30C & set a bellows add system for the pressure at thattemperature. Then as you dived down to cool water the temperature in thesub dropped to 15C. The air pressure in the sub would gradually halve but the?bellows add system would build the pressure up with added O2. If you rose?to near the surface & cruised around letting the sub warm up, youcould potentially raise the pressure by quite a bit. Hopefully you would noticethat the O2 % was high in the first place, but if you didn't & the dome retainersweren't substantial, it could contribute to a catastrophic situation.Hmmm think I'll put in an overpressure alarm!Alan Sent from my iPad On 4/08/2016, at 2:49 pm, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: The force acting on the dome from the inside is the internal pressure multiplied by the 222D projected area encapsulated by the innermost seal. For example, if your dome is 24" ID and 26" OD (1" thick), if it seats against a single o-ring at the mid diameter, the area would be A = ?(12.5)^2 = 491 in. ^2 . Conversely, if the entire window thickness sits against a bearing gasket, the seal extends to the ID, so A = ?(12)^2 = 452 in. ^2 .The internal cabin pressure acts uniformly across the entire window, but the external sea pressure does not. Across a 26" OD window, the pressure at the bottom of the window is about 1 psi greater than at the top, so in the absence of proper retention, it would preferentially pull away at the top in the event of overpressure.As far as what to expect, that number should be zero. The only way you will encounter overpressure is if something is leaking gas into the cabin, or if there is a dramatic temperature increase.Your dome retainers need only be strong enough to hold the dome against its seal at whatever delta-P activates the OPV, or some margin above that if it is a slow valve. As a thought, I might be inclined to spring load the retainer arrangement, so if you have a full bottle dump or some other (otherwise) catastrophic event increasing cabin pressure, the dome could vent that gas until it dropped below the spring load, and then the OPV or manual equalizing arrangements would deal with the rest. Of course, you should avoid that possibility in design, but I'm just throwing that out there.Sean On August 3, 2016 8:10:56 PM MDT, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hi all,need some?group input here.I was looking at a picture of Snoopy's dome that Doug posted on Facebook. (below)The 6 dome retainers that are made of plastic were making me nervous.There have been a couple of cases of domes blowing off. I think? George Kitrigewas one of them. So I wanted a bit of analysis on this scenario in general.What sort of overpressure can you expect at a max! imum ona dive?Doug's overpressure valve operates at .5psi but if you were 3psi overpressurethe valve wouldn't operate till you were 5ft from the surface & you would have a shorttime to get the pressure down. Also wave movement would factor in & fluctuate the pressure quickly at that depth.I think the K250 dome is 24" diameter. I calculated out that there would be 452lb pressure on the dome retainers for every 1psi overpressure. I based this on the area of a 24" disc, or should I be basing it on the area of the dome? (Sean)At 3psi that would ! be 226lblifting force on each of those 6 plastic retainers!What is a good safety factor here? (Sorry for picking on Snoopy Alec)Cheers Alan Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 4 19:18:28 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 19:18:28 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome In-Reply-To: <1654842992.9262770.1470343420406.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <0474610C-3E0B-4274-A497-43050F85B462@yahoo.com> <239305071.11172545.1470285765718.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1734683999.9186216.1470313364645.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1654842992.9262770.1470343420406.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes, it's a big valve. Two and a half inches across if I remember right, with a bunch of radial holes in it. The thing is, changing the K250 hatch to take that pressure is just not feasible. You'd basically need a whole new design for the CT and hatch. On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 4:43 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I think there is an ABS rule that says you can not have more HP gases than > the ports or dome can retain. An over pressure valve is fine if it is big > and you can hold your depth in the water column. I think of deflating a > big inner tube with the valve stem removed. If you have such a situation > that requires an over pressure valve to save the day, then there is likely > a lot of stuff going on that would be stressful. I say build so your sub > can handle the over pressure and have an over pressure valve to boot. > Can't a K250 have a stronger ring, with straps like Emile has and DW's > I remember Vance saying "copy what the pro's are doing" > Hank > > > On Thursday, August 4, 2016 6:52 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > > I don't think there's any way a K boat hatch, 250 or 350, would hold that > in. Tanks on the outside with shutoff valves are a mitigating solution, but > an OP valve I'd argue is best because it's automatic and kicks in > instantaneously. The 250 hatch is particularly hard to strengthen because > the ring that receives the acrylic is pretty lightweight, meaning if you > were to put enormous dogs on it the ring itself would probably bend. In > short, I don't think it's feasible to harden the K250 hatch against > over-pressure, so the way to protect against that is with the OP valve. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 8:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > It seems to me you should have sufficient dome retaining to hold the dome > in place with all Hp products fully vented into the sub. I am sure that > the retainers on Snoopy's dome can do that. I prefer straps,not saying it > is a must, but when in doubt, go big. > Hank > > > On Wednesday, August 3, 2016 10:43 PM, Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I was thinking that if air temperature was above water temperature, > (as you would get in Canada) then you could potentially get overpressure. > One guy on the internet was saying that his lake temperature was > 26C & the air temperature was 10C. In this case the pressure in a > sub could increase by a couple of psi through the higher water > temperature, > body & electrical heat. > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alan via Personal_Submersibles > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, August 4, 2016 4:04 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome > > Sorry, the air temperature in the bellows probably > wouldn't lag that far behind the air temperature in the sub & so > wouldn't increase the pressure much. > Yes there would need to be some major leak. > However there has been a couple of incidents! > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 4/08/2016, at 3:52 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Sean, > thanks for the maths. > I was thinking that the scenario could arise where you dive with an > internal > temperature of say 30C & set a bellows add system for the pressure at that > temperature. Then as you dived down to cool water the temperature in the > sub dropped to 15C. The air pressure in the sub would gradually halve but > the > bellows add system would build the pressure up with added O2. If you rose > to near the surface & cruised around letting the sub warm up, you > could potentially raise the pressure by quite a bit. Hopefully you would > notice > that the O2 % was high in the first place, but if you didn't & the dome > retainers > weren't substantial, it could contribute to a catastrophic situation. > Hmmm think I'll put in an overpressure alarm! > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 4/08/2016, at 2:49 pm, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > The force acting on the dome from the inside is the internal pressure > multiplied by the 222D projected area encapsulated by the innermost seal. > For example, if your dome is 24" ID and 26" OD (1" thick), if it seats > against a single o-ring at the mid diameter, the area would be A = > ?(12.5)^2 = 491 in. ^2 . Conversely, if the entire window thickness sits > against a bearing gasket, the seal extends to the ID, so A = ?(12)^2 = 452 > in. ^2 . > The internal cabin pressure acts uniformly across the entire window, but > the external sea pressure does not. Across a 26" OD window, the pressure at > the bottom of the window is about 1 psi greater than at the top, so in the > absence of proper retention, it would preferentially pull away at the top > in the event of overpressure. > As far as what to expect, that number should be zero. The only way you > will encounter overpressure is if something is leaking gas into the cabin, > or if there is a dramatic temperature increase. > Your dome retainers need only be strong enough to hold the dome against > its seal at whatever delta-P activates the OPV, or some margin above that > if it is a slow valve. As a thought, I might be inclined to spring load the > retainer arrangement, so if you have a full bottle dump or some other > (otherwise) catastrophic event increasing cabin pressure, the dome could > vent that gas until it dropped below the spring load, and then the OPV or > manual equalizing arrangements would deal with the rest. Of course, you > should avoid that possibility in design, but I'm just throwing that out > there. > Sean > > > On August 3, 2016 8:10:56 PM MDT, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi all, > need some group input here. > I was looking at a picture of Snoopy's dome that Doug posted on Facebook. > (below) > The 6 dome retainers that are made of plastic were making me nervous. > There have been a couple of cases of domes blowing off. I think George > Kitrige > was one of them. So I wanted a bit of analysis on this scenario in general. > What sort of overpressure can you expect at a max! imum on a dive? > Doug's overpressure valve operates at .5psi but if you were 3psi > overpressure > the valve wouldn't operate till you were 5ft from the surface & you would > have a short > time to get the pressure down. Also wave movement would factor in & > fluctuate the pressure quickly at that depth. > I think the K250 dome is 24" diameter. I calculated out that there would > be 452lb > pressure on the dome retainers for every 1psi overpressure. I based this > on the area > of a 24" disc, or should I be basing it on the area of the dome? (Sean) > At 3psi that would ! be 226lb lifting force on each of those 6 plastic > retainers! > What is a good safety factor here? (Sorry for picking on Snoopy Alec) > Cheers Alan > > > > ------------------------------ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 4 20:08:21 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 00:08:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome In-Reply-To: References: <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <0474610C-3E0B-4274-A497-43050F85B462@yahoo.com> <239305071.11172545.1470285765718.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1734683999.9186216.1470313364645.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1654842992.9262770.1470343420406.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <924216019.9530997.1470355701878.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alec, Well, really, we are talking about a pretty unlikely situation. ?Gamma has a single HP line to the valves and it is 1\8. ?It would not take long to shut off if it burst. ?Like you said, it is the pesky little leak that builds up some pressure. ?I actually carry a bottle of soapy water in the sub at all times and give a squirt to test for leaks often. ?It also smells nice ;-) ? ?I have done the same as you with Elementary 3000, the HP lines are ?external and just the valve is inside to the manifold and one 8 inch braided ss 1\8 line to exit the sub. ?Pretty safe set up. ?Neither of my subs have O\P valves but I do have vent valves.Hank On Thursday, August 4, 2016 5:18 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, it's a big valve. Two and a half inches across if I remember right, with a bunch of radial holes in it. The thing is, changing the K250 hatch to take that pressure is just not feasible. You'd basically need a whole new design for the CT and hatch. On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 4:43 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I think there is an ABS rule that says you can not have more HP gases than the ports or dome can retain.? An over pressure valve is fine if it is big and you can hold your depth in the water column.? I think of deflating a big inner tube with the valve stem removed.? If you have such a situation that requires an over pressure valve to save the day, then there is?likely a lot of stuff going on that would be stressful.? I say build so your sub can handle the over pressure and have an over?pressure valve to boot. ?Can't a K250 have a stronger ring, with straps like Emile has and DW'sI remember Vance saying "copy what the pro's are doing"Hank On Thursday, August 4, 2016 6:52 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, I don't think there's any way a K boat hatch, 250 or 350, would hold that in. Tanks on the outside with shutoff valves are a mitigating solution, but an OP valve I'd argue is best because it's automatic and kicks in instantaneously. The 250 hatch is particularly hard to strengthen because the ring that receives the acrylic is pretty lightweight, meaning if you were to put enormous dogs on it the ring itself would probably bend. In short, I don't think it's feasible to harden the K250 hatch against over-pressure, so the way to protect against that is with the OP valve. Best, Alec On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 8:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,It seems to me you should have sufficient dome retaining to hold the dome in place with all Hp products fully vented into the sub.? I am sure that the retainers on Snoopy's dome can do that.? I prefer straps,not saying it is a must, but when in doubt, go big. ?Hank On Wednesday, August 3, 2016 10:43 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I was thinking that if air temperature was above water temperature,(as you would get in Canada) then you could potentially get overpressure.One guy on the internet was saying that his lake temperature was 26C & the air temperature was 10C. In this case the pressure in asub could?increase by a couple of psi?through?the higher water temperature, body & electrical heat. Alan From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2016 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome Sorry, the air temperature in the bellows probablywouldn't lag that far behind the air temperature in the sub & sowouldn't increase the pressure much.Yes there would need to be some major leak.However there has been a couple of incidents!Alan ? Sent from my iPad On 4/08/2016, at 3:52 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean,thanks for the maths.I was thinking that the scenario could arise where you dive with an internaltemperature of say 30C & set a bellows add system for the pressure at thattemperature. Then as you dived down to cool water the temperature in thesub dropped to 15C. The air pressure in the sub would gradually halve but the?bellows add system would build the pressure up with added O2. If you rose?to near the surface & cruised around letting the sub warm up, youcould potentially raise the pressure by quite a bit. Hopefully you would noticethat the O2 % was high in the first place, but if you didn't & the dome retainersweren't substantial, it could contribute to a catastrophic situation.Hmmm think I'll put in an overpressure alarm!Alan Sent from my iPad On 4/08/2016, at 2:49 pm, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: The force acting on the dome from the inside is the internal pressure multiplied by the 222D projected area encapsulated by the innermost seal. For example, if your dome is 24" ID and 26" OD (1" thick), if it seats against a single o-ring at the mid diameter, the area would be A = ?(12.5)^2 = 491 in. ^2 . Conversely, if the entire window thickness sits against a bearing gasket, the seal extends to the ID, so A = ?(12)^2 = 452 in. ^2 .The internal cabin pressure acts uniformly across the entire window, but the external sea pressure does not. Across a 26" OD window, the pressure at the bottom of the window is about 1 psi greater than at the top, so in the absence of proper retention, it would preferentially pull away at the top in the event of overpressure.As far as what to expect, that number should be zero. The only way you will encounter overpressure is if something is leaking gas into the cabin, or if there is a dramatic temperature increase.Your dome retainers need only be strong enough to hold the dome against its seal at whatever delta-P activates the OPV, or some margin above that if it is a slow valve. As a thought, I might be inclined to spring load the retainer arrangement, so if you have a full bottle dump or some other (otherwise) catastrophic event increasing cabin pressure, the dome could vent that gas until it dropped below the spring load, and then the OPV or manual equalizing arrangements would deal with the rest. Of course, you should avoid that possibility in design, but I'm just throwing that out there.Sean On August 3, 2016 8:10:56 PM MDT, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hi all,need some?group input here.I was looking at a picture of Snoopy's dome that Doug posted on Facebook. (below)The 6 dome retainers that are made of plastic were making me nervous.There have been a couple of cases of domes blowing off. I think? George Kitrigewas one of them. So I wanted a bit of analysis on this scenario in general.What sort of overpressure can you expect at a max! imum ona dive?Doug's overpressure valve operates at .5psi but if you were 3psi overpressurethe valve wouldn't operate till you were 5ft from the surface & you would have a shorttime to get the pressure down. Also wave movement would factor in & fluctuate the pressure quickly at that depth.I think the K250 dome is 24" diameter. I calculated out that there would be 452lb pressure on the dome retainers for every 1psi overpressure. I based this on the area of a 24" disc, or should I be basing it on the area of the dome? (Sean)At 3psi that would ! be 226lblifting force on each of those 6 plastic retainers!What is a good safety factor here? (Sorry for picking on Snoopy Alec)Cheers Alan Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 4 21:23:31 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 18:23:31 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome Message-ID: <20160804182331.76132BE2@m0087798.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 4 21:37:07 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 01:37:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome In-Reply-To: <20160804182331.76132BE2@m0087798.ppops.net> References: <20160804182331.76132BE2@m0087798.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1727281989.9547374.1470361027498.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,I like it, why not, as long as the dogs catch it. ?So simple, there must be an issue?Hank On Thursday, August 4, 2016 7:23 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My overpressure valve is my hatch.? With the hatch dogs closed it can still burp out air.?brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 00:08:21 +0000 (UTC) Alec, Well, really, we are talking about a pretty unlikely situation. ?Gamma has a single HP line to the valves and it is 1\8. ?It would not take long to shut off if it burst. ?Like you said, it is the pesky little leak that builds up some pressure. ?I actually carry a bottle of soapy water in the sub at all times and give a squirt to test for leaks often. ?It also smells nice ;-) ? ?I have done the same as you with Elementary 3000, the HP lines are ?external and just the valve is inside to the manifold and one 8 inch braided ss 1\8 line to exit the sub. ?Pretty safe set up. ?Neither of my subs have O\P valves but I do have vent valves.Hank On Thursday, August 4, 2016 5:18 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, it's a big valve. Two and a half inches across if I remember right, with a bunch of radial holes in it. The thing is, changing the K250 hatch to take that pressure is just not feasible. You'd basically need a whole new design for the CT and hatch. On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 4:43 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I think there is an ABS rule that says you can not have more HP gases than the ports or dome can retain.? An over pressure valve is fine if it is big and you can hold your depth in the water column.? I think of deflating a big inner tube with the valve stem removed.? If you have such a situation that requires an over pressure valve to save the day, then there is?likely a lot of stuff going on that would be stressful.? I say build so your sub can handle the over pressure and have an over?pressure valve to boot. ?Can't a K250 have a stronger ring, with straps like Emile has and DW'sI remember Vance saying "copy what the pro's are doing"Hank On Thursday, August 4, 2016 6:52 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, I don't think there's any way a K boat hatch, 250 or 350, would hold that in. Tanks on the outside with shutoff valves are a mitigating solution, but an OP valve I'd argue is best because it's automatic and kicks in instantaneously. The 250 hatch is particularly hard to strengthen because the ring that receives the acrylic is pretty lightweight, meaning if you were to put enormous dogs on it the ring itself would probably bend. In short, I don't think it's feasible to harden the K250 hatch against over-pressure, so the way to protect against that is with the OP valve. Best, Alec On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 8:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,It seems to me you should have sufficient dome retaining to hold the dome in place with all Hp products fully vented into the sub.? I am sure that the retainers on Snoopy's dome can do that.? I prefer straps,not saying it is a must, but when in doubt, go big. ?Hank On Wednesday, August 3, 2016 10:43 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I was thinking that if air temperature was above water temperature,(as you would get in Canada) then you could potentially get overpressure.One guy on the internet was saying that his lake temperature was 26C & the air temperature was 10C. In this case the pressure in asub could?increase by a couple of psi?through?the higher water temperature, body & electrical heat. Alan From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2016 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome Sorry, the air temperature in the bellows probablywouldn't lag that far behind the air temperature in the sub & sowouldn't increase the pressure much.Yes there would need to be some major leak.However there has been a couple of incidents!Alan Sent from my iPad On 4/08/2016, at 3:52 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean,thanks for the maths.I was thinking that the scenario could arise where you dive with an internaltemperature of say 30C & set a bellows add system for the pressure at thattemperature. Then as you dived down to cool water the temperature in thesub dropped to 15C. The air pressure in the sub would gradually halve but the?bellows add system would build the pressure up with added O2. If you rose?to near the surface & cruised around letting the sub warm up, youcould potentially raise the pressure by quite a bit. Hopefully you would noticethat the O2 % was high in the first place, but if you didn't & the dome retainersweren't substantial, it could contribute to a catastrophic situation.Hmmm think I'll put in an overpressure alarm!Alan Sent from my iPad On 4/08/2016, at 2:49 pm, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: The force acting on the dome from the inside is the internal pressure multiplied by the 222D projected area encapsulated by the innermost seal. For example, if your dome is 24" ID and 26" OD (1" thick), if it seats against a single o-ring at the mid diameter, the area would be A = ?(12.5)^2 = 491 in. ^2 . Conversely, if the entire window thickness sits against a bearing gasket, the seal extends to the ID, so A = ?(12)^2 = 452 in. ^2 .The internal cabin pressure acts uniformly across the entire window, but the external sea pressure does not. Across a 26" OD window, the pressure at the bottom of the window is about 1 psi greater than at the top, so in the absence of proper retention, it would preferentially pull away at the top in the event of overpressure.As far as what to expect, that number should be zero. The only way you will encounter overpressure is if something is leaking gas into the cabin, or if there is a dramatic temperature increase.Your dome retainers need only be strong enough to hold the dome against its seal at whatever delta-P activates the OPV, or some margin above that if it is a slow valve. As a thought, I might be inclined to spring load the retainer arrangement, so if you have a full bottle dump or some other (otherwise) catastrophic event increasing cabin pressure, the dome could vent that gas until it dropped below the spring load, and then the OPV or manual equalizing arrangements would deal with the rest. Of course, you should avoid that possibility in design, but I'm just throwing that out there.Sean On August 3, 2016 8:10:56 PM MDT, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hi all,need some?group input here.I was looking at a picture of Snoopy's dome that Doug posted on Facebook. (below)The 6 dome retainers that are made of plastic were making me nervous.There have been a couple of cases of domes blowing off. I think? George Kitrigewas one of them. So I wanted a bit of analysis on this scenario in general.What sort of overpressure can you expect at a max! imum ona dive?Doug's overpressure valve operates at .5psi but if you were 3psi overpressurethe valve wouldn't operate till you were 5ft from the surface & you would have a shorttime to get the pressure down. Also wave movement would factor in & fluctuate the pressure quickly at that depth.I think the K250 dome is 24" diameter. I calculated out that there would be 452lb pressure on the dome retainers for every 1psi overpressure. I based this on the area of a 24" disc, or should I be basing it on the area of the dome? (Sean)At 3psi that would ! be 226lblifting force on each of those 6 plastic retainers!What is a good safety factor here? (Sorry for picking on Snoopy Alec)Cheers Alan Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 5 07:37:54 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 11:37:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome In-Reply-To: <924216019.9530997.1470355701878.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <711015818.607327.1470276656304.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <0474610C-3E0B-4274-A497-43050F85B462@yahoo.com> <239305071.11172545.1470285765718.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1734683999.9186216.1470313364645.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1654842992.9262770.1470343420406.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <924216019.9530997.1470355701878.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <901712379.12021770.1470397074679.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks for the input,It's a subject we haven't gone in to in too much detail in the past. To a large degree the knowledge of the potential pitfalls is a bigplus with regard to safety. I am thinking of an overpressure alarmAlan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, August 5, 2016 12:08 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome Alec, Well, really, we are talking about a pretty unlikely situation. ?Gamma has a single HP line to the valves and it is 1\8. ?It would not take long to shut off if it burst. ?Like you said, it is the pesky little leak that builds up some pressure. ?I actually carry a bottle of soapy water in the sub at all times and give a squirt to test for leaks often. ?It also smells nice ;-) ? ?I have done the same as you with Elementary 3000, the HP lines are ?external and just the valve is inside to the manifold and one 8 inch braided ss 1\8 line to exit the sub. ?Pretty safe set up. ?Neither of my subs have O\P valves but I do have vent valves.Hank On Thursday, August 4, 2016 5:18 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, it's a big valve. Two and a half inches across if I remember right, with a bunch of radial holes in it. The thing is, changing the K250 hatch to take that pressure is just not feasible. You'd basically need a whole new design for the CT and hatch. On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 4:43 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I think there is an ABS rule that says you can not have more HP gases than the ports or dome can retain.? An over pressure valve is fine if it is big and you can hold your depth in the water column.? I think of deflating a big inner tube with the valve stem removed.? If you have such a situation that requires an over pressure valve to save the day, then there is?likely a lot of stuff going on that would be stressful.? I say build so your sub can handle the over pressure and have an over?pressure valve to boot. ?Can't a K250 have a stronger ring, with straps like Emile has and DW'sI remember Vance saying "copy what the pro's are doing"Hank On Thursday, August 4, 2016 6:52 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, I don't think there's any way a K boat hatch, 250 or 350, would hold that in. Tanks on the outside with shutoff valves are a mitigating solution, but an OP valve I'd argue is best because it's automatic and kicks in instantaneously. The 250 hatch is particularly hard to strengthen because the ring that receives the acrylic is pretty lightweight, meaning if you were to put enormous dogs on it the ring itself would probably bend. In short, I don't think it's feasible to harden the K250 hatch against over-pressure, so the way to protect against that is with the OP valve. Best, Alec On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 8:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,It seems to me you should have sufficient dome retaining to hold the dome in place with all Hp products fully vented into the sub.? I am sure that the retainers on Snoopy's dome can do that.? I prefer straps,not saying it is a must, but when in doubt, go big. ?Hank On Wednesday, August 3, 2016 10:43 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I was thinking that if air temperature was above water temperature,(as you would get in Canada) then you could potentially get overpressure.One guy on the internet was saying that his lake temperature was 26C & the air temperature was 10C. In this case the pressure in asub could?increase by a couple of psi?through?the higher water temperature, body & electrical heat. Alan From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2016 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome Sorry, the air temperature in the bellows probablywouldn't lag that far behind the air temperature in the sub & sowouldn't increase the pressure much.Yes there would need to be some major leak.However there has been a couple of incidents!Alan ? Sent from my iPad On 4/08/2016, at 3:52 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean,thanks for the maths.I was thinking that the scenario could arise where you dive with an internaltemperature of say 30C & set a bellows add system for the pressure at thattemperature. Then as you dived down to cool water the temperature in thesub dropped to 15C. The air pressure in the sub would gradually halve but the?bellows add system would build the pressure up with added O2. If you rose?to near the surface & cruised around letting the sub warm up, youcould potentially raise the pressure by quite a bit. Hopefully you would noticethat the O2 % was high in the first place, but if you didn't & the dome retainersweren't substantial, it could contribute to a catastrophic situation.Hmmm think I'll put in an overpressure alarm!Alan Sent from my iPad On 4/08/2016, at 2:49 pm, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: The force acting on the dome from the inside is the internal pressure multiplied by the 222D projected area encapsulated by the innermost seal. For example, if your dome is 24" ID and 26" OD (1" thick), if it seats against a single o-ring at the mid diameter, the area would be A = ?(12.5)^2 = 491 in. ^2 . Conversely, if the entire window thickness sits against a bearing gasket, the seal extends to the ID, so A = ?(12)^2 = 452 in. ^2 .The internal cabin pressure acts uniformly across the entire window, but the external sea pressure does not. Across a 26" OD window, the pressure at the bottom of the window is about 1 psi greater than at the top, so in the absence of proper retention, it would preferentially pull away at the top in the event of overpressure.As far as what to expect, that number should be zero. The only way you will encounter overpressure is if something is leaking gas into the cabin, or if there is a dramatic temperature increase.Your dome retainers need only be strong enough to hold the dome against its seal at whatever delta-P activates the OPV, or some margin above that if it is a slow valve. As a thought, I might be inclined to spring load the retainer arrangement, so if you have a full bottle dump or some other (otherwise) catastrophic event increasing cabin pressure, the dome could vent that gas until it dropped below the spring load, and then the OPV or manual equalizing arrangements would deal with the rest. Of course, you should avoid that possibility in design, but I'm just throwing that out there.Sean On August 3, 2016 8:10:56 PM MDT, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hi all,need some?group input here.I was looking at a picture of Snoopy's dome that Doug posted on Facebook. (below)The 6 dome retainers that are made of plastic were making me nervous.There have been a couple of cases of domes blowing off. I think? George Kitrigewas one of them. So I wanted a bit of analysis on this scenario in general.What sort of overpressure can you expect at a max! imum ona dive?Doug's overpressure valve operates at .5psi but if you were 3psi overpressurethe valve wouldn't operate till you were 5ft from the surface & you would have a shorttime to get the pressure down. Also wave movement would factor in & fluctuate the pressure quickly at that depth.I think the K250 dome is 24" diameter. I calculated out that there would be 452lb pressure on the dome retainers for every 1psi overpressure. I based this on the area of a 24" disc, or should I be basing it on the area of the dome? (Sean)At 3psi that would ! be 226lblifting force on each of those 6 plastic retainers!What is a good safety factor here? (Sorry for picking on Snoopy Alec)Cheers Alan Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 5 08:03:58 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 12:03:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome In-Reply-To: <1727281989.9547374.1470361027498.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160804182331.76132BE2@m0087798.ppops.net> <1727281989.9547374.1470361027498.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <480540514.9494565.1470398638609.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,How are you applying pressure on the o-ring to seal it until the water pressure takes over. ?Are you hatch dogs spring loaded?Hank On Thursday, August 4, 2016 7:45 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian,I like it, why not, as long as the dogs catch it. ?So simple, there must be an issue?Hank On Thursday, August 4, 2016 7:23 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My overpressure valve is my hatch.? With the hatch dogs closed it can still burp out air.?brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 00:08:21 +0000 (UTC) Alec, Well, really, we are talking about a pretty unlikely situation. ?Gamma has a single HP line to the valves and it is 1\8. ?It would not take long to shut off if it burst. ?Like you said, it is the pesky little leak that builds up some pressure. ?I actually carry a bottle of soapy water in the sub at all times and give a squirt to test for leaks often. ?It also smells nice ;-) ? ?I have done the same as you with Elementary 3000, the HP lines are ?external and just the valve is inside to the manifold and one 8 inch braided ss 1\8 line to exit the sub. ?Pretty safe set up. ?Neither of my subs have O\P valves but I do have vent valves.Hank On Thursday, August 4, 2016 5:18 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, it's a big valve. Two and a half inches across if I remember right, with a bunch of radial holes in it. The thing is, changing the K250 hatch to take that pressure is just not feasible. You'd basically need a whole new design for the CT and hatch. On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 4:43 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I think there is an ABS rule that says you can not have more HP gases than the ports or dome can retain.? An over pressure valve is fine if it is big and you can hold your depth in the water column.? I think of deflating a big inner tube with the valve stem removed.? If you have such a situation that requires an over pressure valve to save the day, then there is?likely a lot of stuff going on that would be stressful.? I say build so your sub can handle the over pressure and have an over?pressure valve to boot. ?Can't a K250 have a stronger ring, with straps like Emile has and DW'sI remember Vance saying "copy what the pro's are doing"Hank On Thursday, August 4, 2016 6:52 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, I don't think there's any way a K boat hatch, 250 or 350, would hold that in. Tanks on the outside with shutoff valves are a mitigating solution, but an OP valve I'd argue is best because it's automatic and kicks in instantaneously. The 250 hatch is particularly hard to strengthen because the ring that receives the acrylic is pretty lightweight, meaning if you were to put enormous dogs on it the ring itself would probably bend. In short, I don't think it's feasible to harden the K250 hatch against over-pressure, so the way to protect against that is with the OP valve. Best, Alec On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 8:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,It seems to me you should have sufficient dome retaining to hold the dome in place with all Hp products fully vented into the sub.? I am sure that the retainers on Snoopy's dome can do that.? I prefer straps,not saying it is a must, but when in doubt, go big. ?Hank On Wednesday, August 3, 2016 10:43 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I was thinking that if air temperature was above water temperature,(as you would get in Canada) then you could potentially get overpressure.One guy on the internet was saying that his lake temperature was 26C & the air temperature was 10C. In this case the pressure in asub could?increase by a couple of psi?through?the higher water temperature, body & electrical heat. Alan From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2016 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome Sorry, the air temperature in the bellows probablywouldn't lag that far behind the air temperature in the sub & sowouldn't increase the pressure much.Yes there would need to be some major leak.However there has been a couple of incidents!Alan Sent from my iPad On 4/08/2016, at 3:52 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean,thanks for the maths.I was thinking that the scenario could arise where you dive with an internaltemperature of say 30C & set a bellows add system for the pressure at thattemperature. Then as you dived down to cool water the temperature in thesub dropped to 15C. The air pressure in the sub would gradually halve but the?bellows add system would build the pressure up with added O2. If you rose?to near the surface & cruised around letting the sub warm up, youcould potentially raise the pressure by quite a bit. Hopefully you would noticethat the O2 % was high in the first place, but if you didn't & the dome retainersweren't substantial, it could contribute to a catastrophic situation.Hmmm think I'll put in an overpressure alarm!Alan Sent from my iPad On 4/08/2016, at 2:49 pm, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: The force acting on the dome from the inside is the internal pressure multiplied by the 222D projected area encapsulated by the innermost seal. For example, if your dome is 24" ID and 26" OD (1" thick), if it seats against a single o-ring at the mid diameter, the area would be A = ?(12.5)^2 = 491 in. ^2 . Conversely, if the entire window thickness sits against a bearing gasket, the seal extends to the ID, so A = ?(12)^2 = 452 in. ^2 .The internal cabin pressure acts uniformly across the entire window, but the external sea pressure does not. Across a 26" OD window, the pressure at the bottom of the window is about 1 psi greater than at the top, so in the absence of proper retention, it would preferentially pull away at the top in the event of overpressure.As far as what to expect, that number should be zero. The only way you will encounter overpressure is if something is leaking gas into the cabin, or if there is a dramatic temperature increase.Your dome retainers need only be strong enough to hold the dome against its seal at whatever delta-P activates the OPV, or some margin above that if it is a slow valve. As a thought, I might be inclined to spring load the retainer arrangement, so if you have a full bottle dump or some other (otherwise) catastrophic event increasing cabin pressure, the dome could vent that gas until it dropped below the spring load, and then the OPV or manual equalizing arrangements would deal with the rest. Of course, you should avoid that possibility in design, but I'm just throwing that out there.Sean On August 3, 2016 8:10:56 PM MDT, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hi all,need some?group input here.I was looking at a picture of Snoopy's dome that Doug posted on Facebook. (below)The 6 dome retainers that are made of plastic were making me nervous.There have been a couple of cases of domes blowing off. I think? George Kitrigewas one of them. So I wanted a bit of analysis on this scenario in general.What sort of overpressure can you expect at a max! imum ona dive?Doug's overpressure valve operates at .5psi but if you were 3psi overpressurethe valve wouldn't operate till you were 5ft from the surface & you would have a shorttime to get the pressure down. Also wave movement would factor in & fluctuate the pressure quickly at that depth.I think the K250 dome is 24" diameter. I calculated out that there would be 452lb pressure on the dome retainers for every 1psi overpressure. I based this on the area of a 24" disc, or should I be basing it on the area of the dome? (Sean)At 3psi that would ! be 226lblifting force on each of those 6 plastic retainers!What is a good safety factor here? (Sorry for picking on Snoopy Alec)Cheers Alan Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 5 08:15:59 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 08:15:59 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome Message-ID: The actual ABS standard just doesn't go there. Keeping the HP air tanks inboard, as in an unmodified K-boat, is actually afoul of the standard. 5.5 Pressure Vessel Location Pressure vessels and heat exchangers are not to be located within the pressure boundary of the underwater vehicle or hyperbaric installation unless calculations are submitted showing that the inadvertent release of the contained fluid(s) will not increase the pressure inside the chamber by more than one atmosphere. I've been attempting to read the ABS rules cover-to-cover, and in particular that bit stuck out at me. -- -River J. Dolfi rdolfi7 at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 5 08:39:15 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 00:39:15 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish Message-ID: <5F66D0B1-3E33-45A2-A855-FC9BBD0E3166@yahoo.com> I have just seen on Facebook that Project Pilot Fish, where the guys are peddling their submarine across the English Channel, has started. I saw a video of them being towed out to sea. Emile did a lot of the build. Hope they make it, but have my doubts as it is quite a feat. If anyone (Emile) can update the group on the progress, it would be appreciated. Antoine has done an amazing job bringing this all together & getting sponsorship. Alan Sent from my iPad From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 5 09:57:00 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 15:57:00 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish In-Reply-To: <5F66D0B1-3E33-45A2-A855-FC9BBD0E3166@yahoo.com> References: <5F66D0B1-3E33-45A2-A855-FC9BBD0E3166@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <089b01d1ef21$3d4004e0$b7c00ea0$@nl> Hi Alan, I also wanted t notify the group about the start. The Fb page of the project is the quickest link for info with sometimes near live video. A friend who supplied the comsets will be on the surface vessel from Guernsey to st. Malo The air quality or bad luck can cause failure; not the sub or the crew! Regards, Emile -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 5 augustus 2016 14:39 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish I have just seen on Facebook that Project Pilot Fish, where the guys are peddling their submarine across the English Channel, has started. I saw a video of them being towed out to sea. Emile did a lot of the build. Hope they make it, but have my doubts as it is quite a feat. If anyone (Emile) can update the group on the progress, it would be appreciated. Antoine has done an amazing job bringing this all together & getting sponsorship. Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 5 12:04:43 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 09:04:43 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome Message-ID: <20160805090443.76130F3C@m0087798.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 5 13:16:44 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 17:16:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome In-Reply-To: <20160805090443.76130F3C@m0087798.ppops.net> References: <20160805090443.76130F3C@m0087798.ppops.net> Message-ID: <280284396.5347184.1470417404078.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,You want the sub to hold vacuum without helping the hatch, otherwise you will need to install?eavestroughs. ?;-) ?If I don't set my dogs just right I get a drip in Gamma. ?That seems no big deal but it is annoying as hell and it gets real cold at the bottom so a wet shirt is not comfy. ? ?I know I sound like a baby but what can I say.Hank On Friday, August 5, 2016 10:04 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? At the moment they just force the hatch closed because there is a bevel on the end of the dogs which force the hatch tight as they go under the hatch ring lip?.? The turning shaft for turning the dogs goes through the hatch so I can also turn it from the outside.? So far I have only tested the hatch when I have pulled vacuums on the hull,? so I've been somewhat concerned how it would work under actual conditions.? When I pulled the vacuum, with the hatch dogs tight, there was still the tiniest bit?of air trying to get inside the hull, by applying very minimal pressure with my hand to the outside of the hatch a vacuum was created and the hatch locked down tight.???This is all I have to go on.??????I think with a foot of water on top of the hatch would equal the pressure I applied with my hand.?? I could also apply?, I surmise ,? that same amount of?pressure if I was inside the sub,?just by pulling down on the hatch turning wheel.??So my burping of air on an over pressure situation would be through?that slight looseness I?experience?.? Not very scientific !?Brian??? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 12:03:58 +0000 (UTC) Brian,How are you applying pressure on the o-ring to seal it until the water pressure takes over. ?Are you hatch dogs spring loaded?Hank On Thursday, August 4, 2016 7:45 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian,I like it, why not, as long as the dogs catch it. ?So simple, there must be an issue?Hank On Thursday, August 4, 2016 7:23 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My overpressure valve is my hatch.? With the hatch dogs closed it can still burp out air.?brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 00:08:21 +0000 (UTC) Alec, Well, really, we are talking about a pretty unlikely situation. ?Gamma has a single HP line to the valves and it is 1\8. ?It would not take long to shut off if it burst. ?Like you said, it is the pesky little leak that builds up some pressure. ?I actually carry a bottle of soapy water in the sub at all times and give a squirt to test for leaks often. ?It also smells nice ;-) ? ?I have done the same as you with Elementary 3000, the HP lines are ?external and just the valve is inside to the manifold and one 8 inch braided ss 1\8 line to exit the sub. ?Pretty safe set up. ?Neither of my subs have O\P valves but I do have vent valves.Hank On Thursday, August 4, 2016 5:18 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, it's a big valve. Two and a half inches across if I remember right, with a bunch of radial holes in it. The thing is, changing the K250 hatch to take that pressure is just not feasible. You'd basically need a whole new design for the CT and hatch. On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 4:43 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I think there is an ABS rule that says you can not have more HP gases than the ports or dome can retain.? An over pressure valve is fine if it is big and you can hold your depth in the water column.? I think of deflating a big inner tube with the valve stem removed.? If you have such a situation that requires an over pressure valve to save the day, then there is?likely a lot of stuff going on that would be stressful.? I say build so your sub can handle the over pressure and have an over?pressure valve to boot. ?Can't a K250 have a stronger ring, with straps like Emile has and DW'sI remember Vance saying "copy what the pro's are doing"Hank On Thursday, August 4, 2016 6:52 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, I don't think there's any way a K boat hatch, 250 or 350, would hold that in. Tanks on the outside with shutoff valves are a mitigating solution, but an OP valve I'd argue is best because it's automatic and kicks in instantaneously. The 250 hatch is particularly hard to strengthen because the ring that receives the acrylic is pretty lightweight, meaning if you were to put enormous dogs on it the ring itself would probably bend. In short, I don't think it's feasible to harden the K250 hatch against over-pressure, so the way to protect against that is with the OP valve. Best, Alec On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 8:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,It seems to me you should have sufficient dome retaining to hold the dome in place with all Hp products fully vented into the sub.? I am sure that the retainers on Snoopy's dome can do that.? I prefer straps,not saying it is a must, but when in doubt, go big. ?Hank On Wednesday, August 3, 2016 10:43 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I was thinking that if air temperature was above water temperature,(as you would get in Canada) then you could potentially get overpressure.One guy on the internet was saying that his lake temperature was 26C & the air temperature was 10C. In this case the pressure in asub could?increase by a couple of psi?through?the higher water temperature, body & electrical heat. Alan From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2016 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome Sorry, the air temperature in the bellows probablywouldn't lag that far behind the air temperature in the sub & sowouldn't increase the pressure much.Yes there would need to be some major leak.However there has been a couple of incidents!Alan Sent from my iPad On 4/08/2016, at 3:52 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean,thanks for the maths.I was thinking that the scenario could arise where you dive with an internaltemperature of say 30C & set a bellows add system for the pressure at thattemperature. Then as you dived down to cool water the temperature in thesub dropped to 15C. The air pressure in the sub would gradually halve but the?bellows add system would build the pressure up with added O2. If you rose?to near the surface & cruised around letting the sub warm up, youcould potentially raise the pressure by quite a bit. Hopefully you would noticethat the O2 % was high in the first place, but if you didn't & the dome retainersweren't substantial, it could contribute to a catastrophic situation.Hmmm think I'll put in an overpressure alarm!Alan Sent from my iPad On 4/08/2016, at 2:49 pm, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: The force acting on the dome from the inside is the internal pressure multiplied by the 222D projected area encapsulated by the innermost seal. For example, if your dome is 24" ID and 26" OD (1" thick), if it seats against a single o-ring at the mid diameter, the area would be A = ?(12.5)^2 = 491 in. ^2 . Conversely, if the entire window thickness sits against a bearing gasket, the seal extends to the ID, so A = ?(12)^2 = 452 in. ^2 .The internal cabin pressure acts uniformly across the entire window, but the external sea pressure does not. Across a 26" OD window, the pressure at the bottom of the window is about 1 psi greater than at the top, so in the absence of proper retention, it would preferentially pull away at the top in the event of overpressure.As far as what to expect, that number should be zero. The only way you will encounter overpressure is if something is leaking gas into the cabin, or if there is a dramatic temperature increase.Your dome retainers need only be strong enough to hold the dome against its seal at whatever delta-P activates the OPV, or some margin above that if it is a slow valve. As a thought, I might be inclined to spring load the retainer arrangement, so if you have a full bottle dump or some other (otherwise) catastrophic event increasing cabin pressure, the dome could vent that gas until it dropped below the spring load, and then the OPV or manual equalizing arrangements would deal with the rest. Of course, you should avoid that possibility in design, but I'm just throwing that out there.Sean On August 3, 2016 8:10:56 PM MDT, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hi all,need some?group input here.I was looking at a picture of Snoopy's dome that Doug posted on Facebook. (below)The 6 dome retainers that are made of plastic were making me nervous.There have been a couple of cases of domes blowing off. I think? George Kitrigewas one of them. So I wanted a bit of analysis on this scenario in general.What sort of overpressure can you expect at a max! imum ona dive?Doug's overpressure valve operates at .5psi but if you were 3psi overpressurethe valve wouldn't operate till you were 5ft from the surface & you would have a shorttime to get the pressure down. Also wave movement would factor in & fluctuate the pressure quickly at that depth.I think the K250 dome is 24" diameter. I calculated out that there would be 452lb pressure on the dome retainers for every 1psi overpressure. I based this on the area of a 24" disc, or should I be basing it on the area of the dome? (Sean)At 3psi that would ! be 226lblifting force on each of those 6 plastic retainers!What is a good safety factor here? (Sorry for picking on Snoopy Alec)Cheers Alan Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 5 13:19:05 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 17:19:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] T shirt References: <1971254224.10066834.1470417545948.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1971254224.10066834.1470417545948.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I am making a T shirt that says " Happy wife - Bigger submarine budget" ? ?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 5 22:24:35 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 19:24:35 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome Message-ID: <20160805192435.79F379AA@m0087792.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 5 23:10:55 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 23:10:55 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome In-Reply-To: <20160805192435.79F379AA@m0087792.ppops.net> References: <20160805192435.79F379AA@m0087792.ppops.net> Message-ID: Sorry I've been absent on this conversation, I've been quite busy (as always - aren't we all?). Alan, I want to thank you for starting this thread, very interesting thoughts and opinions on Snoopy / over-pressure in general. I will definitely keep a sharp eye on the cabin pressure gauge. As Alec has said, it is mounted front and center for a reason... I'm glad that others have taken the opportunity to express concern about Snoopy's operation under my pilotage (as a new sub operator), between your concern and my own, hopefully I'll do alright! ~ Doug S. On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 10:24 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hank, It's just the initial vacuum grab, then it's sealed > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome > Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 17:16:44 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, > You want the sub to hold vacuum without helping the hatch, otherwise you > will need to install eavestroughs. ;-) If I don't set my dogs just > right I get a drip in Gamma. That seems no big deal but it is annoying as > hell and it gets real cold at the bottom so a wet shirt is not comfy. I > know I sound like a baby but what can I say. > Hank > > > On Friday, August 5, 2016 10:04 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hank, At the moment they just force the hatch closed because there is a > bevel on the end of the dogs which force the hatch tight as they go under > the hatch ring lip . The turning shaft for turning the dogs goes through > the hatch so I can also turn it from the outside. So far I have only > tested the hatch when I have pulled vacuums on the hull, so I've been > somewhat concerned how it would work under actual conditions. When I > pulled the vacuum, with the hatch dogs tight, there was still the tiniest > bit of air trying to get inside the hull, by applying very minimal pressure > with my hand to the outside of the hatch a vacuum was created and the hatch > locked down tight. This is all I have to go on. I think with a foot > of water on top of the hatch would equal the pressure I applied with my > hand. I could also apply , I surmise , that same amount of pressure if I > was inside the sub, just by pulling down on the hatch turning wheel. So my > burping of air on an over pressure situation would be through that slight > looseness I experience . Not very scientific ! > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome > Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 12:03:58 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, > How are you applying pressure on the o-ring to seal it until the water > pressure takes over. Are you hatch dogs spring loaded? > Hank > > > On Thursday, August 4, 2016 7:45 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Brian, > I like it, why not, as long as the dogs catch it. So simple, there must > be an issue? > Hank > > > On Thursday, August 4, 2016 7:23 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > My overpressure valve is my hatch. With the hatch dogs closed it can > still burp out air. > > brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome > Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 00:08:21 +0000 (UTC) > > Alec, Well, really, we are talking about a pretty unlikely situation. > Gamma has a single HP line to the valves and it is 1\8. It would not take > long to shut off if it burst. Like you said, it is the pesky little leak > that builds up some pressure. I actually carry a bottle of soapy water in > the sub at all times and give a squirt to test for leaks often. It also > smells nice ;-) I have done the same as you with Elementary 3000, the HP > lines are external and just the valve is inside to the manifold and one 8 > inch braided ss 1\8 line to exit the sub. Pretty safe set up. Neither of > my subs have O\P valves but I do have vent valves. > Hank > > > On Thursday, August 4, 2016 5:18 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Yes, it's a big valve. Two and a half inches across if I remember right, > with a bunch of radial holes in it. The thing is, changing the K250 hatch > to take that pressure is just not feasible. You'd basically need a whole > new design for the CT and hatch. > > On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 4:43 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I think there is an ABS rule that says you can not have more HP gases than > the ports or dome can retain. An over pressure valve is fine if it is big > and you can hold your depth in the water column. I think of deflating a > big inner tube with the valve stem removed. If you have such a situation > that requires an over pressure valve to save the day, then there is likely > a lot of stuff going on that would be stressful. I say build so your sub > can handle the over pressure and have an over pressure valve to boot. > Can't a K250 have a stronger ring, with straps like Emile has and DW's > I remember Vance saying "copy what the pro's are doing" > Hank > > > On Thursday, August 4, 2016 6:52 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > > I don't think there's any way a K boat hatch, 250 or 350, would hold that > in. Tanks on the outside with shutoff valves are a mitigating solution, but > an OP valve I'd argue is best because it's automatic and kicks in > instantaneously. The 250 hatch is particularly hard to strengthen because > the ring that receives the acrylic is pretty lightweight, meaning if you > were to put enormous dogs on it the ring itself would probably bend. In > short, I don't think it's feasible to harden the K250 hatch against > over-pressure, so the way to protect against that is with the OP valve. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 8:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Alan, > It seems to me you should have sufficient dome retaining to hold the dome > in place with all Hp products fully vented into the sub. I am sure that > the retainers on Snoopy's dome can do that. I prefer straps,not saying it > is a must, but when in doubt, go big. > Hank > > > On Wednesday, August 3, 2016 10:43 PM, Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > I was thinking that if air temperature was above water temperature, > (as you would get in Canada) then you could potentially get overpressure. > One guy on the internet was saying that his lake temperature was > 26C & the air temperature was 10C. In this case the pressure in a > sub could increase by a couple of psi through the higher water > temperature, > body & electrical heat. > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion org > > *Sent:* Thursday, August 4, 2016 4:04 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome > > Sorry, the air temperature in the bellows probably > wouldn't lag that far behind the air temperature in the sub & so > wouldn't increase the pressure much. > Yes there would need to be some major leak. > However there has been a couple of incidents! > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 4/08/2016, at 3:52 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Sean, > thanks for the maths. > I was thinking that the scenario could arise where you dive with an > internal > temperature of say 30C & set a bellows add system for the pressure at that > temperature. Then as you dived down to cool water the temperature in the > sub dropped to 15C. The air pressure in the sub would gradually halve but > the > bellows add system would build the pressure up with added O2. If you rose > to near the surface & cruised around letting the sub warm up, you > could potentially raise the pressure by quite a bit. Hopefully you would > notice > that the O2 % was high in the first place, but if you didn't & the dome > retainers > weren't substantial, it could contribute to a catastrophic situation. > Hmmm think I'll put in an overpressure alarm! > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 4/08/2016, at 2:49 pm, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > The force acting on the dome from the inside is the internal pressure > multiplied by the 222D projected area encapsulated by the innermost seal. > For example, if your dome is 24" ID and 26" OD (1" thick), if it seats > against a single o-ring at the mid diameter, the area would be A = > ?(12.5)^2 = 491 in. ^2 . Conversely, if the entire window thickness sits > against a bearing gasket, the seal extends to the ID, so A = ?(12)^2 = 452 > in. ^2 . > The internal cabin pressure acts uniformly across the entire window, but > the external sea pressure does not. Across a 26" OD window, the pressure at > the bottom of the window is about 1 psi greater than at the top, so in the > absence of proper retention, it would preferentially pull away at the top > in the event of overpressure. > As far as what to expect, that number should be zero. The only way you > will encounter overpressure is if something is leaking gas into the cabin, > or if there is a dramatic temperature increase. > Your dome retainers need only be strong enough to hold the dome against > its seal at whatever delta-P activates the OPV, or some margin above that > if it is a slow valve. As a thought, I might be inclined to spring load the > retainer arrangement, so if you have a full bottle dump or some other > (otherwise) catastrophic event increasing cabin pressure, the dome could > vent that gas until it dropped below the spring load, and then the OPV or > manual equalizing arrangements would deal with the rest. Of course, you > should avoid that possibility in design, but I'm just throwing that out > there. > Sean > > > On August 3, 2016 8:10:56 PM MDT, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Hi all, > need some group input here. > I was looking at a picture of Snoopy's dome that Doug posted on Facebook. > (below) > The 6 dome retainers that are made of plastic were making me nervous. > There have been a couple of cases of domes blowing off. I think George > Kitrige > was one of them. So I wanted a bit of analysis on this scenario in general. > What sort of overpressure can you expect at a max! imum on a dive? > Doug's overpressure valve operates at .5psi but if you were 3psi > overpressure > the valve wouldn't operate till you were 5ft from the surface & you would > have a short > time to get the pressure down. Also wave movement would factor in & > fluctuate the pressure quickly at that depth. > I think the K250 dome is 24" diameter. I calculated out that there would > be 452lb > pressure on the dome retainers for every 1psi overpressure. I based this > on the area > of a 24" disc, or should I be basing it on the area of the dome? (Sean) > At 3psi that would ! be 226lb lifting force on each of those 6 plastic > retainers! > What is a good safety factor here? (Sorry for picking on Snoopy Alec) > Cheers Alan > > > > ------------------------------ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 5 23:13:29 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 23:13:29 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location In-Reply-To: <923F861E-653E-4497-A173-C65782A8C901@yahoo.com> References: <006301d1ecdb$6ecff350$4c6fd9f0$@gmail.com> <23acb630-79aa-770f-528c-8e4d3b0b9c45@psubs.org> <775574743.10039337.1470177748953.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <923F861E-653E-4497-A173-C65782A8C901@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan, I like that idea (a "pump barge"). Whatever we determine will work, it's gonna have to deal with relatively rough seas. ~ Doug S. On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 9:56 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Doug, > I have seen a number of inflatable pontoon systems for lifting boats > above the water. They all used pumps to pump out the water. > I wonder if there is merit in designing an inflatable pontoon that you > could > lower, & drive Snoopy on to, then fill with air & tow. It would > solve the problem of boarding in rough seas, as you could climb in while > it was up on the pontoons. The pontoons would also make it easier to > board without bashing your boat against the sub. > You would need a large barge if you are looking at hoisting in to the > water. > It wasn't the easiest in perfect conditions in to your canal. > I think they use a ballasted platform in Hawaii ( similar idea) Scott > might confirm > that as he has just been there. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 3/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Good point Alan, wave height is an issue on more than one hand with Snoopy > (as I'm sure you're aware). > > BTW, we're starting to look seriously into building or buying a barge for > the Keys. We've got to get Snoopy out to the oceanside more quickly than by > towing her. ~ Doug S. > > On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Doug, >> sounds like a cunning plan! >> Be aware that it might work when the water surface is flat, >> but fail if there is too much of a wave.av >> I'm with Jon on having a descent surface communication system. >> Alan >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 3, 2016 8:29 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location >> >> 'Sound' thoughts Jon... :) ~ Doug S. >> >> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Nothing wrong with Radio comms on surface, in fact you should have a VHF >> for ocean water anyway. Depending upon the location of the transducer on >> the vessel, at the surface you may find you don't have enough water column >> to communicate effectively. Test first. >> >> Jon >> >> >> On 8/2/2016 3:09 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Dad and I are planning to try a little experiment in regards to the >> mounting location of Snoopy's transducer array. The idea is to mount the >> array on a hinged whip behind the hatch. While she's on the surface the >> transducer will be under the waterline for surfaced communication with >> surface support (if the boat and sub are out of earshot of one another). >> When Snoopy submerges, the array's float lifts the mast erect over the sub, >> becoming the tallest part of the vessel while submerged. >> >> Just an idea, but we're keen to try it when we get the chance. One >> possible drawback is entanglement danger... we've been thinking a lot about >> that lately. ~ Doug S. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 6 01:31:44 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 17:31:44 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inflatable sub support In-Reply-To: References: <006301d1ecdb$6ecff350$4c6fd9f0$@gmail.com> <23acb630-79aa-770f-528c-8e4d3b0b9c45@psubs.org> <775574743.10039337.1470177748953.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <923F861E-653E-4497-A173-C65782A8C901@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Doug, Cliff was thinking about this issue a while back. Perhaps a purpose built hard fibreglass hull that conforms to Snoopy's lower hull, with an inflatable pontoon attached, but with no back section. ( an inflatable boat with the back missing.) Use an air pump to deflate & inflate it. It would probably require a winch up front to help the sub get fully on board. If it was strong enough you could trailer the sub on this inflatable base. It would increase the towing speed & make it easy to board in rough conditions. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 6/08/2016, at 3:13 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, I like that idea (a "pump barge"). Whatever we determine will work, it's gonna have to deal with relatively rough seas. ~ Doug S. > >> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 9:56 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Doug, >> I have seen a number of inflatable pontoon systems for lifting boats >> above the water. They all used pumps to pump out the water. >> I wonder if there is merit in designing an inflatable pontoon that you could >> lower, & drive Snoopy on to, then fill with air & tow. It would >> solve the problem of boarding in rough seas, as you could climb in while >> it was up on the pontoons. The pontoons would also make it easier to >> board without bashing your boat against the sub. >> You would need a large barge if you are looking at hoisting in to the water. >> It wasn't the easiest in perfect conditions in to your canal. >> I think they use a ballasted platform in Hawaii ( similar idea) Scott might confirm >> that as he has just been there. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 3/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Good point Alan, wave height is an issue on more than one hand with Snoopy (as I'm sure you're aware). >>> >>> BTW, we're starting to look seriously into building or buying a barge for the Keys. We've got to get Snoopy out to the oceanside more quickly than by towing her. ~ Doug S. >>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Doug, >>>> sounds like a cunning plan! >>>> Be aware that it might work when the water surface is flat, >>>> but fail if there is too much of a wave.av >>>> I'm with Jon on having a descent surface communication system. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2016 8:29 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location >>>> >>>> 'Sound' thoughts Jon... :) ~ Doug S. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Nothing wrong with Radio comms on surface, in fact you should have a VHF for ocean water anyway. Depending upon the location of the transducer on the vessel, at the surface you may find you don't have enough water column to communicate effectively. Test first. >>>> >>>> Jon >>>> >>>> >>>> On 8/2/2016 3:09 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Dad and I are planning to try a little experiment in regards to the mounting location of Snoopy's transducer array. The idea is to mount the array on a hinged whip behind the hatch. While she's on the surface the transducer will be under the waterline for surfaced communication with surface support (if the boat and sub are out of earshot of one another). When Snoopy submerges, the array's float lifts the mast erect over the sub, becoming the tallest part of the vessel while submerged. >>>> >>>> Just an idea, but we're keen to try it when we get the chance. One possible drawback is entanglement danger... we've been thinking a lot about that lately. ~ Doug S. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 6 03:17:26 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 09:17:26 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish In-Reply-To: <5F66D0B1-3E33-45A2-A855-FC9BBD0E3166@yahoo.com> References: <5F66D0B1-3E33-45A2-A855-FC9BBD0E3166@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <091001d1efb2$96003c30$c200b490$@nl> And the newspapers keeping us up to date. worldwide!!. Emile -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 5 augustus 2016 14:39 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish I have just seen on Facebook that Project Pilot Fish, where the guys are peddling their submarine across the English Channel, has started. I saw a video of them being towed out to sea. Emile did a lot of the build. Hope they make it, but have my doubts as it is quite a feat. If anyone (Emile) can update the group on the progress, it would be appreciated. Antoine has done an amazing job bringing this all together & getting sponsorship. Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PF times.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 96792 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 6 06:55:21 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 10:55:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome In-Reply-To: <20160805192435.79F379AA@m0087792.ppops.net> References: <20160805192435.79F379AA@m0087792.ppops.net> Message-ID: <194084265.10053878.1470480921350.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Brian,Yes of coarse, that is what I meant. ?The Vacuum should grab the hatch unassisted, or water will dribble in until your a few feet under. ?Your dogs need to provide enough tension for the initial seal.Hank On Friday, August 5, 2016 8:24 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,????????? It's just the initial vacuum grab, then it's sealed?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 17:16:44 +0000 (UTC) Brian,You want the sub to hold vacuum without helping the hatch, otherwise you will need to install?eavestroughs. ?;-) ?If I don't set my dogs just right I get a drip in Gamma. ?That seems no big deal but it is annoying as hell and it gets real cold at the bottom so a wet shirt is not comfy. ? ?I know I sound like a baby but what can I say.Hank On Friday, August 5, 2016 10:04 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? At the moment they just force the hatch closed because there is a bevel on the end of the dogs which force the hatch tight as they go under the hatch ring lip?.? The turning shaft for turning the dogs goes through the hatch so I can also turn it from the outside.? So far I have only tested the hatch when I have pulled vacuums on the hull,? so I've been somewhat concerned how it would work under actual conditions.? When I pulled the vacuum, with the hatch dogs tight, there was still the tiniest bit?of air trying to get inside the hull, by applying very minimal pressure with my hand to the outside of the hatch a vacuum was created and the hatch locked down tight.???This is all I have to go on.??????I think with a foot of water on top of the hatch would equal the pressure I applied with my hand.?? I could also apply?, I surmise ,? that same amount of?pressure if I was inside the sub,?just by pulling down on the hatch turning wheel.??So my burping of air on an over pressure situation would be through?that slight looseness I?experience?.? Not very scientific !?Brian??? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 12:03:58 +0000 (UTC) Brian,How are you applying pressure on the o-ring to seal it until the water pressure takes over. ?Are you hatch dogs spring loaded?Hank On Thursday, August 4, 2016 7:45 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian,I like it, why not, as long as the dogs catch it. ?So simple, there must be an issue?Hank On Thursday, August 4, 2016 7:23 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My overpressure valve is my hatch.? With the hatch dogs closed it can still burp out air.?brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 00:08:21 +0000 (UTC) Alec, Well, really, we are talking about a pretty unlikely situation. ?Gamma has a single HP line to the valves and it is 1\8. ?It would not take long to shut off if it burst. ?Like you said, it is the pesky little leak that builds up some pressure. ?I actually carry a bottle of soapy water in the sub at all times and give a squirt to test for leaks often. ?It also smells nice ;-) ? ?I have done the same as you with Elementary 3000, the HP lines are ?external and just the valve is inside to the manifold and one 8 inch braided ss 1\8 line to exit the sub. ?Pretty safe set up. ?Neither of my subs have O\P valves but I do have vent valves.Hank On Thursday, August 4, 2016 5:18 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, it's a big valve. Two and a half inches across if I remember right, with a bunch of radial holes in it. The thing is, changing the K250 hatch to take that pressure is just not feasible. You'd basically need a whole new design for the CT and hatch. On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 4:43 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I think there is an ABS rule that says you can not have more HP gases than the ports or dome can retain.? An over pressure valve is fine if it is big and you can hold your depth in the water column.? I think of deflating a big inner tube with the valve stem removed.? If you have such a situation that requires an over pressure valve to save the day, then there is?likely a lot of stuff going on that would be stressful.? I say build so your sub can handle the over pressure and have an over?pressure valve to boot. ?Can't a K250 have a stronger ring, with straps like Emile has and DW'sI remember Vance saying "copy what the pro's are doing"Hank On Thursday, August 4, 2016 6:52 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, I don't think there's any way a K boat hatch, 250 or 350, would hold that in. Tanks on the outside with shutoff valves are a mitigating solution, but an OP valve I'd argue is best because it's automatic and kicks in instantaneously. The 250 hatch is particularly hard to strengthen because the ring that receives the acrylic is pretty lightweight, meaning if you were to put enormous dogs on it the ring itself would probably bend. In short, I don't think it's feasible to harden the K250 hatch against over-pressure, so the way to protect against that is with the OP valve. Best, Alec On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 8:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,It seems to me you should have sufficient dome retaining to hold the dome in place with all Hp products fully vented into the sub.? I am sure that the retainers on Snoopy's dome can do that.? I prefer straps,not saying it is a must, but when in doubt, go big. ?Hank On Wednesday, August 3, 2016 10:43 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I was thinking that if air temperature was above water temperature,(as you would get in Canada) then you could potentially get overpressure.One guy on the internet was saying that his lake temperature was 26C & the air temperature was 10C. In this case the pressure in asub could?increase by a couple of psi?through?the higher water temperature, body & electrical heat. Alan From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2016 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Overpressure on dome Sorry, the air temperature in the bellows probablywouldn't lag that far behind the air temperature in the sub & sowouldn't increase the pressure much.Yes there would need to be some major leak.However there has been a couple of incidents!Alan Sent from my iPad On 4/08/2016, at 3:52 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean,thanks for the maths.I was thinking that the scenario could arise where you dive with an internaltemperature of say 30C & set a bellows add system for the pressure at thattemperature. Then as you dived down to cool water the temperature in thesub dropped to 15C. The air pressure in the sub would gradually halve but the?bellows add system would build the pressure up with added O2. If you rose?to near the surface & cruised around letting the sub warm up, youcould potentially raise the pressure by quite a bit. Hopefully you would noticethat the O2 % was high in the first place, but if you didn't & the dome retainersweren't substantial, it could contribute to a catastrophic situation.Hmmm think I'll put in an overpressure alarm!Alan Sent from my iPad On 4/08/2016, at 2:49 pm, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: The force acting on the dome from the inside is the internal pressure multiplied by the 222D projected area encapsulated by the innermost seal. For example, if your dome is 24" ID and 26" OD (1" thick), if it seats against a single o-ring at the mid diameter, the area would be A = ?(12.5)^2 = 491 in. ^2 . Conversely, if the entire window thickness sits against a bearing gasket, the seal extends to the ID, so A = ?(12)^2 = 452 in. ^2 .The internal cabin pressure acts uniformly across the entire window, but the external sea pressure does not. Across a 26" OD window, the pressure at the bottom of the window is about 1 psi greater than at the top, so in the absence of proper retention, it would preferentially pull away at the top in the event of overpressure.As far as what to expect, that number should be zero. The only way you will encounter overpressure is if something is leaking gas into the cabin, or if there is a dramatic temperature increase.Your dome retainers need only be strong enough to hold the dome against its seal at whatever delta-P activates the OPV, or some margin above that if it is a slow valve. As a thought, I might be inclined to spring load the retainer arrangement, so if you have a full bottle dump or some other (otherwise) catastrophic event increasing cabin pressure, the dome could vent that gas until it dropped below the spring load, and then the OPV or manual equalizing arrangements would deal with the rest. Of course, you should avoid that possibility in design, but I'm just throwing that out there.Sean On August 3, 2016 8:10:56 PM MDT, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hi all,need some?group input here.I was looking at a picture of Snoopy's dome that Doug posted on Facebook. (below)The 6 dome retainers that are made of plastic were making me nervous.There have been a couple of cases of domes blowing off. I think? George Kitrigewas one of them. So I wanted a bit of analysis on this scenario in general.What sort of overpressure can you expect at a max! imum ona dive?Doug's overpressure valve operates at .5psi but if you were 3psi overpressurethe valve wouldn't operate till you were 5ft from the surface & you would have a shorttime to get the pressure down. Also wave movement would factor in & fluctuate the pressure quickly at that depth.I think the K250 dome is 24" diameter. I calculated out that there would be 452lb pressure on the dome retainers for every 1psi overpressure. I based this on the area of a 24" disc, or should I be basing it on the area of the dome? (Sean)At 3psi that would ! be 226lblifting force on each of those 6 plastic retainers!What is a good safety factor here? (Sorry for picking on Snoopy Alec)Cheers Alan Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 6 09:09:29 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 14:09:29 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish In-Reply-To: <089b01d1ef21$3d4004e0$b7c00ea0$@nl> References: <5F66D0B1-3E33-45A2-A855-FC9BBD0E3166@yahoo.com> <089b01d1ef21$3d4004e0$b7c00ea0$@nl> Message-ID: Hi Emile, Do you know when the surface boat will be here in Guernsey? I would like to go and meet them maybe. James On Friday, 5 August 2016, emile via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Alan, > > I also wanted t notify the group about the start. The Fb page of the > project > is the quickest link for info with sometimes near live video. > A friend who supplied the comsets will be on the surface vessel from > Guernsey to st. Malo > The air quality or bad luck can cause failure; not the sub or the crew! > > Regards, Emile > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org > ] > Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: vrijdag 5 augustus 2016 14:39 > Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish > > I have just seen on Facebook that Project Pilot Fish, where the guys are > peddling their submarine across the English Channel, has started. I saw a > video of them being towed out to sea. Emile did a lot of the build. > Hope they make it, but have my doubts as it is quite a feat. > If anyone (Emile) can update the group on the progress, it would be > appreciated. > Antoine has done an amazing job bringing this all together & getting > sponsorship. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 6 11:16:41 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 08:16:41 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] T shirt In-Reply-To: <1971254224.10066834.1470417545948.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1971254224.10066834.1470417545948.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1971254224.10066834.1470417545948.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002701d1eff5$89ca7d70$9d5f7850$@telus.net> Makes sense, Hank. Last year it was "Happy wife, new trailer". From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, August 5, 2016 10:19 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] T shirt I am making a T shirt that says " Happy wife - Bigger submarine budget" Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 6 11:29:00 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 17:29:00 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish In-Reply-To: References: <5F66D0B1-3E33-45A2-A855-FC9BBD0E3166@yahoo.com> <089b01d1ef21$3d4004e0$b7c00ea0$@nl> Message-ID: Hello everyone, we had to abort our trip not far after the beginning, as we detected quite a lot of carbon monoxide build up in the cabin, and could not find what it was and how to manage it. it basically reached 300ppm after 10 hours which is huge. We had brought some catalytic filter to human CO production twenty times lower than that. So the catalyst filter was not really able to get the rate down. It is not oxygen pollution. The sensor may be off but we just did a blood test confirming level a bit above the normal levels. that leaves maybe some chemicals like some glue we took in the tool box for repairs... It would have been too dangerous to be at sea with such creeping CO level. We probably now cannot make it for this tide window. We ll decide tonight what we do regards Antoine On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 3:09 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Emile, > Do you know when the surface boat will be here in Guernsey? I would like > to go and meet them maybe. > James > > > On Friday, 5 August 2016, emile via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi Alan, >> >> I also wanted t notify the group about the start. The Fb page of the >> project >> is the quickest link for info with sometimes near live video. >> A friend who supplied the comsets will be on the surface vessel from >> Guernsey to st. Malo >> The air quality or bad luck can cause failure; not the sub or the crew! >> >> Regards, Emile >> >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- >> bounces at psubs.org] >> Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> Verzonden: vrijdag 5 augustus 2016 14:39 >> Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish >> >> I have just seen on Facebook that Project Pilot Fish, where the guys are >> peddling their submarine across the English Channel, has started. I saw a >> video of them being towed out to sea. Emile did a lot of the build. >> Hope they make it, but have my doubts as it is quite a feat. >> If anyone (Emile) can update the group on the progress, it would be >> appreciated. >> Antoine has done an amazing job bringing this all together & getting >> sponsorship. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 6 11:59:27 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 15:59:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] T shirt In-Reply-To: <002701d1eff5$89ca7d70$9d5f7850$@telus.net> References: <1971254224.10066834.1470417545948.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1971254224.10066834.1470417545948.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002701d1eff5$89ca7d70$9d5f7850$@telus.net> Message-ID: <438955046.10069073.1470499167218.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Tim,I just found a 10,000 Gallon pressure vessel, (not propane) 1 hr from home. ? That has got me thinking. ?It would be nice to have a live aboard sub in Kootenay lake, year round.Hank On Saturday, August 6, 2016 9:17 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv0942279294 #yiv0942279294 -- _filtered #yiv0942279294 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0942279294 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0942279294 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv0942279294 #yiv0942279294 p.yiv0942279294MsoNormal, #yiv0942279294 li.yiv0942279294MsoNormal, #yiv0942279294 div.yiv0942279294MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv0942279294 a:link, #yiv0942279294 span.yiv0942279294MsoHyperlink {color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0942279294 a:visited, #yiv0942279294 span.yiv0942279294MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0942279294 span.yiv0942279294EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv0942279294 .yiv0942279294MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv0942279294 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv0942279294 div.yiv0942279294WordSection1 {}#yiv0942279294 Makes sense, Hank.? Last year it was "Happy wife, new trailer". ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, August 5, 2016 10:19 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] T shirt ?I am making a T shirt that says " Happy wife - Bigger submarine budget" ? ?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 6 12:11:44 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 18:11:44 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish In-Reply-To: References: <5F66D0B1-3E33-45A2-A855-FC9BBD0E3166@yahoo.com> <089b01d1ef21$3d4004e0$b7c00ea0$@nl> Message-ID: <1470499904261.1519658.8c4823df5c5ce5be15a28dc438268aa83fe92f2c@spica.telekom.de> Antoine - if my CO Monitor on the Euronaut shows me 300 ppm CO this means probably it is 60 ppm H2. The sensor count both and shows H2 fifes time higher than it is. Will see what the blood test shows. Do you charge batteries inside the sub during the Travel? vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish Datum: 2016-08-06T17:31:39+0200 Von: "Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Hello everyone, we had to abort our trip not far after the beginning, as we detected quite a lot of carbon monoxide build up in the cabin, and could not find what it was and how to manage it. it basically reached 300ppm after 10 hours which is huge. We had brought some catalytic filter to human CO production twenty times lower than that. So the catalyst filter was not really able to get the rate down. It is not oxygen pollution. The sensor may be off but we just did a blood test confirming level a bit above the normal levels. that leaves maybe some chemicals like some glue we took in the tool box for repairs... It would have been too dangerous to be at sea with such creeping CO level. We probably now cannot make it for this tide window. We ll decide tonight what we do regards Antoine On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 3:09 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Emile, Do you know when the surface boat will be here in Guernsey? I would like to go and meet them maybe. James On Friday, 5 August 2016, emile via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: Hi Alan, I also wanted t notify the group about the start. The Fb page of the project is the quickest link for info with sometimes near live video. A friend who supplied the comsets will be on the surface vessel from Guernsey to st. Malo The air quality or bad luck can cause failure; not the sub or the crew! Regards, Emile -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 5 augustus 2016 14:39 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish I have just seen on Facebook that Project Pilot Fish, where the guys are peddling their submarine across the English Channel, has started. I saw a video of them being towed out to sea. Emile did a lot of the build. Hope they make it, but have my doubts as it is quite a feat. If anyone (Emile) can update the group on the progress, it would be appreciated. Antoine has done an amazing job bringing this all together & getting sponsorship. Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 6 12:13:56 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 18:13:56 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish In-Reply-To: References: <5F66D0B1-3E33-45A2-A855-FC9BBD0E3166@yahoo.com> <089b01d1ef21$3d4004e0$b7c00ea0$@nl> Message-ID: <1470500036819.1542851.38e5e4c0f7b3f475c98b05fa60feb237ee14ed15@spica.telekom.de> Emile just write you have 8-10 pcs. 50Ah batteries in z?teh sub - maybe is just H2 ? Did you measure H2 ? -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish Datum: 2016-08-06T17:31:39+0200 Von: "Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Hello everyone, we had to abort our trip not far after the beginning, as we detected quite a lot of carbon monoxide build up in the cabin, and could not find what it was and how to manage it. it basically reached 300ppm after 10 hours which is huge. We had brought some catalytic filter to human CO production twenty times lower than that. So the catalyst filter was not really able to get the rate down. It is not oxygen pollution. The sensor may be off but we just did a blood test confirming level a bit above the normal levels. that leaves maybe some chemicals like some glue we took in the tool box for repairs... It would have been too dangerous to be at sea with such creeping CO level. We probably now cannot make it for this tide window. We ll decide tonight what we do regards Antoine On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 3:09 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Emile, Do you know when the surface boat will be here in Guernsey? I would like to go and meet them maybe. James On Friday, 5 August 2016, emile via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: Hi Alan, I also wanted t notify the group about the start. The Fb page of the project is the quickest link for info with sometimes near live video. A friend who supplied the comsets will be on the surface vessel from Guernsey to st. Malo The air quality or bad luck can cause failure; not the sub or the crew! Regards, Emile -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 5 augustus 2016 14:39 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish I have just seen on Facebook that Project Pilot Fish, where the guys are peddling their submarine across the English Channel, has started. I saw a video of them being towed out to sea. Emile did a lot of the build. Hope they make it, but have my doubts as it is quite a feat. If anyone (Emile) can update the group on the progress, it would be appreciated. Antoine has done an amazing job bringing this all together & getting sponsorship. Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 6 12:23:46 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 09:23:46 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] T shirt In-Reply-To: <438955046.10069073.1470499167218.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1971254224.10066834.1470417545948.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1971254224.10066834.1470417545948.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002701d1eff5$89ca7d70$9d5f7850$@telus.net> <438955046.10069073.1470499167218.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003b01d1effe$e8cfd000$ba6f7000$@telus.net> Hmmm, that's over 83,000 pounds of dry weight ballasted bubble. Live aboard or permanent manned habitat perhaps? Fill the bottom half with concrete to lighten it up, cut window ports, weld on landing gear, and submerge onto a hard bottom. The surface support system is easy. Rent it out to sport divers as an overnight BnB. It would be interesting to know the external dimensions. That size may even accommodate a moon pool to surface a submarine. How do you find these things? Obviously, I operate in the wrong social circles. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, August 6, 2016 8:59 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] T shirt Tim, I just found a 10,000 Gallon pressure vessel, (not propane) 1 hr from home. That has got me thinking. It would be nice to have a live aboard sub in Kootenay lake, year round. Hank On Saturday, August 6, 2016 9:17 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Makes sense, Hank. Last year it was "Happy wife, new trailer". From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, August 5, 2016 10:19 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] T shirt I am making a T shirt that says " Happy wife - Bigger submarine budget" Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 6 12:27:48 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 18:27:48 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish In-Reply-To: <1470499904261.1519658.8c4823df5c5ce5be15a28dc438268aa83fe92f2c@spica.telekom.de> References: <5F66D0B1-3E33-45A2-A855-FC9BBD0E3166@yahoo.com> <089b01d1ef21$3d4004e0$b7c00ea0$@nl> <1470499904261.1519658.8c4823df5c5ce5be15a28dc438268aa83fe92f2c@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <099601d1efff$78ad5760$6a080620$@nl> Carsten , Antoine, The batteries are not charged inside the sub. If the CO sensor is so sensitive on H2, this might be the problem. Sensor electronics failure due to the high humidity is also a possibility. I never measure as my mission duration is much shorter. Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zaterdag 6 augustus 2016 18:12 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish Antoine - if my CO Monitor on the Euronaut shows me 300 ppm CO this means probably it is 60 ppm H2. The sensor count both and shows H2 fifes time higher than it is. Will see what the blood test shows. Do you charge batteries inside the sub during the Travel? vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish Datum: 2016-08-06T17:31:39+0200 Von: "Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Hello everyone, we had to abort our trip not far after the beginning, as we detected quite a lot of carbon monoxide build up in the cabin, and could not find what it was and how to manage it. it basically reached 300ppm after 10 hours which is huge. We had brought some catalytic filter to human CO production twenty times lower than that. So the catalyst filter was not really able to get the rate down. It is not oxygen pollution. The sensor may be off but we just did a blood test confirming level a bit above the normal levels. that leaves maybe some chemicals like some glue we took in the tool box for repairs... It would have been too dangerous to be at sea with such creeping CO level. We probably now cannot make it for this tide window. We ll decide tonight what we do regards Antoine On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 3:09 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Emile, Do you know when the surface boat will be here in Guernsey? I would like to go and meet them maybe. James On Friday, 5 August 2016, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, I also wanted t notify the group about the start. The Fb page of the project is the quickest link for info with sometimes near live video. A friend who supplied the comsets will be on the surface vessel from Guernsey to st. Malo The air quality or bad luck can cause failure; not the sub or the crew! Regards, Emile -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 5 augustus 2016 14:39 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish I have just seen on Facebook that Project Pilot Fish, where the guys are peddling their submarine across the English Channel, has started. I saw a video of them being towed out to sea. Emile did a lot of the build. Hope they make it, but have my doubts as it is quite a feat. If anyone (Emile) can update the group on the progress, it would be appreciated. Antoine has done an amazing job bringing this all together & getting sponsorship. Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 6 12:48:22 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 16:48:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] T shirt In-Reply-To: <003b01d1effe$e8cfd000$ba6f7000$@telus.net> References: <1971254224.10066834.1470417545948.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1971254224.10066834.1470417545948.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002701d1eff5$89ca7d70$9d5f7850$@telus.net> <438955046.10069073.1470499167218.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <003b01d1effe$e8cfd000$ba6f7000$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1395425911.10258613.1470502102714.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Tim,I found it at a scrap yard web site. ?I have emailed them for the dimensions but not heard back yet. ?They want 6,000 dollars for it. ? I have a smaller vessel but the dia is only 5 feet. ?My vessel is nice though because it has a 11\16 wall with 7\8 thick heads. ?I am driving to the Island tomorrow (Duncan) so lots of time to think about it. ?Hank On Saturday, August 6, 2016 10:24 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv7631543191 #yiv7631543191 -- _filtered #yiv7631543191 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7631543191 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7631543191 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv7631543191 #yiv7631543191 p.yiv7631543191MsoNormal, #yiv7631543191 li.yiv7631543191MsoNormal, #yiv7631543191 div.yiv7631543191MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv7631543191 a:link, #yiv7631543191 span.yiv7631543191MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7631543191 a:visited, #yiv7631543191 span.yiv7631543191MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7631543191 p.yiv7631543191msonormal, #yiv7631543191 li.yiv7631543191msonormal, #yiv7631543191 div.yiv7631543191msonormal {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv7631543191 p.yiv7631543191msochpdefault, #yiv7631543191 li.yiv7631543191msochpdefault, #yiv7631543191 div.yiv7631543191msochpdefault {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv7631543191 span.yiv7631543191msohyperlink {}#yiv7631543191 span.yiv7631543191msohyperlinkfollowed {}#yiv7631543191 span.yiv7631543191emailstyle17 {}#yiv7631543191 p.yiv7631543191msonormal1, #yiv7631543191 li.yiv7631543191msonormal1, #yiv7631543191 div.yiv7631543191msonormal1 {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv7631543191 span.yiv7631543191msohyperlink1 {color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7631543191 span.yiv7631543191msohyperlinkfollowed1 {color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7631543191 span.yiv7631543191emailstyle171 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv7631543191 p.yiv7631543191msochpdefault1, #yiv7631543191 li.yiv7631543191msochpdefault1, #yiv7631543191 div.yiv7631543191msochpdefault1 {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv7631543191 span.yiv7631543191EmailStyle27 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv7631543191 .yiv7631543191MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv7631543191 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv7631543191 div.yiv7631543191WordSection1 {}#yiv7631543191 Hmmm, that's over 83,000 pounds of dry weight ballasted bubble.? Live aboard or permanent manned habitat perhaps?? Fill the bottom half with concrete to lighten it up, cut window ports, weld on landing gear, and submerge onto a hard bottom.? The surface support system is easy.? Rent it out to sport divers as an overnight BnB. ?It would be interesting to know the external dimensions.? That size may even accommodate a moon pool to surface a submarine.How do you find these things?? Obviously, I operate in the wrong social circles.Tim ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, August 6, 2016 8:59 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] T shirt ?Tim,I just found a 10,000 Gallon pressure vessel, (not propane) 1 hr from home. ? That has got me thinking. ?It would be nice to have a live aboard sub in Kootenay lake, year round.Hank ?On Saturday, August 6, 2016 9:17 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Makes sense, Hank.? Last year it was "Happy wife, new trailer". ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, August 5, 2016 10:19 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] T shirt?I am making a T shirt that says " Happy wife - Bigger submarine budget" ? ?Hank ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 6 15:38:24 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 21:38:24 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish In-Reply-To: <099601d1efff$78ad5760$6a080620$@nl> References: <5F66D0B1-3E33-45A2-A855-FC9BBD0E3166@yahoo.com> <089b01d1ef21$3d4004e0$b7c00ea0$@nl> <1470499904261.1519658.8c4823df5c5ce5be15a28dc438268aa83fe92f2c@spica.telekom.de> <099601d1efff$78ad5760$6a080620$@nl> Message-ID: <1470512304638.1519601.4ec4d79f4ccf5aecda1d62569d66ddba64415f9a@spica.telekom.de> Has Pilotfish Activcoal filter? Katalyst for H2 burning? CO2 scrubber works normal on a little higher CO2 niveau than normal. Some O2 mask for half our all 6 hours use or so could make it a better stay. Two person in such a tiny space for so long.. B.Voyage.. Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish Datum: 2016-08-06T18:29:49+0200 Von: "emile via Personal_Submersibles" An: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Carsten , Antoine, The batteries are not charged inside the sub. If the CO sensor is so sensitive on H2, this might be the problem. Sensor electronics failure due to the high humidity is also a possibility. I never measure as my mission duration is much shorter. Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zaterdag 6 augustus 2016 18:12 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish Antoine - if my CO Monitor on the Euronaut shows me 300 ppm CO this means probably it is 60 ppm H2. The sensor count both and shows H2 fifes time higher than it is. Will see what the blood test shows. Do you charge batteries inside the sub during the Travel? vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish Datum: 2016-08-06T17:31:39+0200 Von: "Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Hello everyone, we had to abort our trip not far after the beginning, as we detected quite a lot of carbon monoxide build up in the cabin, and could not find what it was and how to manage it. it basically reached 300ppm after 10 hours which is huge. We had brought some catalytic filter to human CO production twenty times lower than that. So the catalyst filter was not really able to get the rate down. It is not oxygen pollution. The sensor may be off but we just did a blood test confirming level a bit above the normal levels. that leaves maybe some chemicals like some glue we took in the tool box for repairs... It would have been too dangerous to be at sea with such creeping CO level. We probably now cannot make it for this tide window. We ll decide tonight what we do regards Antoine On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 3:09 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: Hi Emile, Do you know when the surface boat will be here in Guernsey? I would like to go and meet them maybe. James On Friday, 5 August 2016, emile via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: Hi Alan, I also wanted t notify the group about the start. The Fb page of the project is the quickest link for info with sometimes near live video. A friend who supplied the comsets will be on the surface vessel from Guernsey to st. Malo The air quality or bad luck can cause failure; not the sub or the crew! Regards, Emile -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 5 augustus 2016 14:39 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish I have just seen on Facebook that Project Pilot Fish, where the guys are peddling their submarine across the English Channel, has started. I saw a video of them being towed out to sea. Emile did a lot of the build. Hope they make it, but have my doubts as it is quite a feat. If anyone (Emile) can update the group on the progress, it would be appreciated. Antoine has done an amazing job bringing this all together & getting sponsorship. Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 6 20:22:00 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 02:22:00 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish In-Reply-To: <1470512304638.1519601.4ec4d79f4ccf5aecda1d62569d66ddba64415f9a@spica.telekom.de> References: <5F66D0B1-3E33-45A2-A855-FC9BBD0E3166@yahoo.com> <089b01d1ef21$3d4004e0$b7c00ea0$@nl> <1470499904261.1519658.8c4823df5c5ce5be15a28dc438268aa83fe92f2c@spica.telekom.de> <099601d1efff$78ad5760$6a080620$@nl> <1470512304638.1519601.4ec4d79f4ccf5aecda1d62569d66ddba64415f9a@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: not sure H2 could be the culprit, as we charge batteries with open hatch and then when diving we use minimal power levels. We do have active charcoal and Sofnocat H2/CO catalyst (which by the way was warm when the CO level became high and we pulled it out) regards Antoine On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:38 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Has Pilotfish Activcoal filter? Katalyst for H2 burning? > > CO2 scrubber works normal on a little higher CO2 niveau than normal. > > Some O2 mask for half our all 6 hours use or so could make it a better > stay. > > > > Two person in such a tiny space for so long.. > > B.Voyage.. Carsten > > > > > > > > > > -----Original-Nachricht----- > > Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish > > Datum: 2016-08-06T18:29:49+0200 > > Von: "emile via Personal_Submersibles" > > An: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > > > > > > > Carsten , Antoine, > > > > The batteries are not charged inside the sub. If the CO sensor is so > sensitive on H2, this might be the problem. > > Sensor electronics failure due to the high humidity is also a possibility. > > I never measure as my mission duration is much shorter. > > > > Emile > > > > > > *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *MerlinSub at t-online.de via > Personal_Submersibles > *Verzonden:* zaterdag 6 augustus 2016 18:12 > *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish > > > > Antoine - if my CO Monitor on the Euronaut shows me 300 ppm CO this means > probably it is 60 ppm H2. > > The sensor count both and shows H2 fifes time higher than it is. Will see > what the blood test shows. > > > > Do you charge batteries inside the sub during the Travel? > > > > vbr Carsten > > > > > > > > -----Original-Nachricht----- > > Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish > > Datum: 2016-08-06T17:31:39+0200 > > Von: "Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > > > > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > we had to abort our trip not far after the beginning, as we detected quite > a lot of carbon monoxide build up in the cabin, and could not find what it > was and how to manage it. it basically reached 300ppm after 10 hours which > is huge. We had brought some catalytic filter to human CO production twenty > times lower than that. So the catalyst filter was not really able to get > the rate down. It is not oxygen pollution. > > The sensor may be off but we just did a blood test confirming level a bit > above the normal levels. > > that leaves maybe some chemicals like some glue we took in the tool box > for repairs... > > It would have been too dangerous to be at sea with such creeping CO > level. > > > > We probably now cannot make it for this tide window. We ll decide tonight > what we do > > > > regards > > Antoine > > > > On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 3:09 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Emile, > > Do you know when the surface boat will be here in Guernsey? I would like > to go and meet them maybe. > > James > > > > On Friday, 5 August 2016, emile via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > I also wanted t notify the group about the start. The Fb page of the > project > is the quickest link for info with sometimes near live video. > A friend who supplied the comsets will be on the surface vessel from > Guernsey to st. Malo > The air quality or bad luck can cause failure; not the sub or the crew! > > Regards, Emile > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org > ] > Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: vrijdag 5 augustus 2016 14:39 > Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish > > I have just seen on Facebook that Project Pilot Fish, where the guys are > peddling their submarine across the English Channel, has started. I saw a > video of them being towed out to sea. Emile did a lot of the build. > Hope they make it, but have my doubts as it is quite a feat. > If anyone (Emile) can update the group on the progress, it would be > appreciated. > Antoine has done an amazing job bringing this all together & getting > sponsorship. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 6 22:49:20 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 14:49:20 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish In-Reply-To: References: <5F66D0B1-3E33-45A2-A855-FC9BBD0E3166@yahoo.com> <089b01d1ef21$3d4004e0$b7c00ea0$@nl> <1470499904261.1519658.8c4823df5c5ce5be15a28dc438268aa83fe92f2c@spica.telekom.de> <099601d1efff$78ad5760$6a080620$@nl> <1470512304638.1519601.4ec4d79f4ccf5aecda1d62569d66ddba64415f9a@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <8FF83C4E-61E9-4C4E-8016-F2C28AC9A6AE@yahoo.com> I wonder if there is anything coming out of the interior paint over time. sometimes paint takes months to dry properly. Or I have heard of the monitors being upset by paint fumes even though they are not CO. You could heat up a section of paint work to help accelerate any leaching of chemicals, & tape a plastic bag with your CO meter in it over the heated area of paint. If this is the problem go home & heat the interior for as many weeks as it takes. You will get there eventually. Most of the hard work has been done already. All the best. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7/08/2016, at 12:22 pm, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > not sure H2 could be the culprit, as we charge batteries with open hatch and then when diving we use minimal power levels. > > We do have active charcoal and Sofnocat H2/CO catalyst (which by the way was warm when the CO level became high and we pulled it out) > > regards > Antoine > >> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:38 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Has Pilotfish Activcoal filter? Katalyst for H2 burning? >> CO2 scrubber works normal on a little higher CO2 niveau than normal. >> Some O2 mask for half our all 6 hours use or so could make it a better stay. >> >> Two person in such a tiny space for so long.. >> B.Voyage.. Carsten >> >> >> >> >> -----Original-Nachricht----- >> Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish >> Datum: 2016-08-06T18:29:49+0200 >> Von: "emile via Personal_Submersibles" >> An: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" >> >> >> >> Carsten , Antoine, >> >> >> >> The batteries are not charged inside the sub. If the CO sensor is so sensitive on H2, this might be the problem. >> >> Sensor electronics failure due to the high humidity is also a possibility. >> >> I never measure as my mission duration is much shorter. >> >> >> >> Emile >> >> >> >> >> >> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles >> Verzonden: zaterdag 6 augustus 2016 18:12 >> Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish >> >> >> >> Antoine - if my CO Monitor on the Euronaut shows me 300 ppm CO this means probably it is 60 ppm H2. >> The sensor count both and shows H2 fifes time higher than it is. Will see what the blood test shows. >> >> Do you charge batteries inside the sub during the Travel? >> >> vbr Carsten >> >> >> >> -----Original-Nachricht----- >> Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish >> Datum: 2016-08-06T17:31:39+0200 >> Von: "Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles" >> An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> >> >> >> Hello everyone, >> >> >> >> we had to abort our trip not far after the beginning, as we detected quite a lot of carbon monoxide build up in the cabin, and could not find what it was and how to manage it. it basically reached 300ppm after 10 hours which is huge. We had brought some catalytic filter to human CO production twenty times lower than that. So the catalyst filter was not really able to get the rate down. It is not oxygen pollution. >> >> The sensor may be off but we just did a blood test confirming level a bit above the normal levels. >> >> that leaves maybe some chemicals like some glue we took in the tool box for repairs... >> >> It would have been too dangerous to be at sea with such creeping CO level. >> >> >> >> We probably now cannot make it for this tide window. We ll decide tonight what we do >> >> >> >> regards >> >> Antoine >> >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 3:09 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi Emile, >> >> Do you know when the surface boat will be here in Guernsey? I would like to go and meet them maybe. >> >> James >> >> >> >> On Friday, 5 August 2016, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi Alan, >> >> I also wanted t notify the group about the start. The Fb page of the project >> is the quickest link for info with sometimes near live video. >> A friend who supplied the comsets will be on the surface vessel from >> Guernsey to st. Malo >> The air quality or bad luck can cause failure; not the sub or the crew! >> >> Regards, Emile >> >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> Verzonden: vrijdag 5 augustus 2016 14:39 >> Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish >> >> I have just seen on Facebook that Project Pilot Fish, where the guys are >> peddling their submarine across the English Channel, has started. I saw a >> video of them being towed out to sea. Emile did a lot of the build. >> Hope they make it, but have my doubts as it is quite a feat. >> If anyone (Emile) can update the group on the progress, it would be >> appreciated. >> Antoine has done an amazing job bringing this all together & getting >> sponsorship. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> ? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 7 11:56:33 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 17:56:33 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish In-Reply-To: <8FF83C4E-61E9-4C4E-8016-F2C28AC9A6AE@yahoo.com> References: <5F66D0B1-3E33-45A2-A855-FC9BBD0E3166@yahoo.com> <089b01d1ef21$3d4004e0$b7c00ea0$@nl> <1470499904261.1519658.8c4823df5c5ce5be15a28dc438268aa83fe92f2c@spica.telekom.de> <099601d1efff$78ad5760$6a080620$@nl> <1470512304638.1519601.4ec4d79f4ccf5aecda1d62569d66ddba64415f9a@spica.telekom.de> <8FF83C4E-61E9-4C4E-8016-F2C28AC9A6AE@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan and everyone Ok Carsten you may be right. We tested the batteries and they do trigger the CO readings. so that is hydrogen right? no possibility to emit CO for a battery? but they do so when disconnected, neither when charged nor discharged! which is puzzling. for now we are making a cover for the batteries and we ll put our catalyst Inside. regards Antoine On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 4:49 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I wonder if there is anything coming out of the interior paint over time. > sometimes paint takes months to dry properly. > Or I have heard of the monitors being upset by paint fumes even though > they are not CO. You could heat up a section of paint work to help > accelerate > any leaching of chemicals, & tape a plastic bag with your CO meter in it > over the heated area of paint. If this is the problem go home & heat the > interior > for as many weeks as it takes. > You will get there eventually. Most of the hard work has been done already. > All the best. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 7/08/2016, at 12:22 pm, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > not sure H2 could be the culprit, as we charge batteries with open hatch > and then when diving we use minimal power levels. > > We do have active charcoal and Sofnocat H2/CO catalyst (which by the way > was warm when the CO level became high and we pulled it out) > > regards > Antoine > > On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:38 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Has Pilotfish Activcoal filter? Katalyst for H2 burning? >> >> CO2 scrubber works normal on a little higher CO2 niveau than normal. >> >> Some O2 mask for half our all 6 hours use or so could make it a better >> stay. >> >> >> >> Two person in such a tiny space for so long.. >> >> B.Voyage.. Carsten >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original-Nachricht----- >> >> Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish >> >> Datum: 2016-08-06T18:29:49+0200 >> >> Von: "emile via Personal_Submersibles" >> >> An: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Carsten , Antoine, >> >> >> >> The batteries are not charged inside the sub. If the CO sensor is so >> sensitive on H2, this might be the problem. >> >> Sensor electronics failure due to the high humidity is also a possibility. >> >> I never measure as my mission duration is much shorter. >> >> >> >> Emile >> >> >> >> >> >> *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- >> bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *MerlinSub at t-online.de via >> Personal_Submersibles >> *Verzonden:* zaterdag 6 augustus 2016 18:12 >> *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish >> >> >> >> Antoine - if my CO Monitor on the Euronaut shows me 300 ppm CO this >> means probably it is 60 ppm H2. >> >> The sensor count both and shows H2 fifes time higher than it is. Will see >> what the blood test shows. >> >> >> >> Do you charge batteries inside the sub during the Travel? >> >> >> >> vbr Carsten >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original-Nachricht----- >> >> Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish >> >> Datum: 2016-08-06T17:31:39+0200 >> >> Von: "Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles" < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> >> An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hello everyone, >> >> >> >> we had to abort our trip not far after the beginning, as we detected >> quite a lot of carbon monoxide build up in the cabin, and could not find >> what it was and how to manage it. it basically reached 300ppm after 10 >> hours which is huge. We had brought some catalytic filter to human CO >> production twenty times lower than that. So the catalyst filter was not >> really able to get the rate down. It is not oxygen pollution. >> >> The sensor may be off but we just did a blood test confirming level a bit >> above the normal levels. >> >> that leaves maybe some chemicals like some glue we took in the tool box >> for repairs... >> >> It would have been too dangerous to be at sea with such creeping CO >> level. >> >> >> >> We probably now cannot make it for this tide window. We ll decide tonight >> what we do >> >> >> >> regards >> >> Antoine >> >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 3:09 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Hi Emile, >> >> Do you know when the surface boat will be here in Guernsey? I would like >> to go and meet them maybe. >> >> James >> >> >> >> On Friday, 5 August 2016, emile via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi Alan, >> >> I also wanted t notify the group about the start. The Fb page of the >> project >> is the quickest link for info with sometimes near live video. >> A friend who supplied the comsets will be on the surface vessel from >> Guernsey to st. Malo >> The air quality or bad luck can cause failure; not the sub or the crew! >> >> Regards, Emile >> >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- >> bounces at psubs.org ] >> Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> Verzonden: vrijdag 5 augustus 2016 14:39 >> Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish >> >> I have just seen on Facebook that Project Pilot Fish, where the guys are >> peddling their submarine across the English Channel, has started. I saw a >> video of them being towed out to sea. Emile did a lot of the build. >> Hope they make it, but have my doubts as it is quite a feat. >> If anyone (Emile) can update the group on the progress, it would be >> appreciated. >> Antoine has done an amazing job bringing this all together & getting >> sponsorship. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> ? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 7 12:15:31 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 16:15:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish In-Reply-To: References: <5F66D0B1-3E33-45A2-A855-FC9BBD0E3166@yahoo.com> <089b01d1ef21$3d4004e0$b7c00ea0$@nl> <1470499904261.1519658.8c4823df5c5ce5be15a28dc438268aa83fe92f2c@spica.telekom.de> <099601d1efff$78ad5760$6a080620$@nl> <1470512304638.1519601.4ec4d79f4ccf5aecda1d62569d66ddba64415f9a@spica.telekom.de> <8FF83C4E-61E9-4C4E-8016-F2C28AC9A6AE@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1207134886.10675075.1470586531149.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Antoine,How are you making a cover? ?Are you simply bagging the batteries? ?I actually thought it was the paint also.Hank On Sunday, August 7, 2016 9:56 AM, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan and everyone Ok Carsten you may be right. We tested the batteries and they do trigger the CO readings. so that is hydrogen right? no possibility to emit CO for a battery?but they do so when disconnected, neither when charged nor discharged! which is puzzling. for now we are making a cover for the batteries and we ll put our catalyst Inside. regardsAntoine On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 4:49 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I wonder if there is anything coming out of the interior paint over time.sometimes paint takes months to dry properly.Or I have heard of the monitors being upset by paint fumes even thoughthey are not CO. You could heat up a section of paint work to help accelerate?any leaching of chemicals, & tape a plastic bag with your CO meter in itover the heated area of paint. If this is the problem go home & heat the interiorfor as many weeks as it takes.You will get there eventually. Most of the hard work has been done already.All the best.Alan Sent from my iPad On 7/08/2016, at 12:22 pm, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles wrote: not sure H2 could be the culprit, as we charge batteries with open hatch and then when diving we use minimal power levels. We do have active charcoal and Sofnocat H2/CO catalyst (which by the way was warm when the CO level became high and we pulled it out) regardsAntoine On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:38 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Has Pilotfish Activcoal filter? Katalyst for H2 burning? CO2 scrubber works normal on a little higher CO2 niveau than normal. Some O2 mask for half our all 6 hours use or so could make it a better stay. ?Two person in such a tiny space for so long.. B.Voyage.. Carsten????-----Original-Nachricht-----Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot FishDatum: 2016-08-06T18:29:49+0200Von: "emile via Personal_Submersibles" An: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" ???Carsten , Antoine,?The batteries are not charged inside the sub. If the CO sensor is so sensitive on H2, this might be the problem.Sensor electronics failure due to the high humidity is also a possibility.I never measure as my mission duration is much shorter.?Emile??Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- bounces at psubs.org] Namens MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zaterdag 6 augustus 2016 18:12 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish?Antoine - if my CO Monitor on the Euronaut? shows me 300 ppm CO this means probably it is 60 ppm H2. The sensor count both and shows H2 fifes time higher than it is. Will see what the blood test shows. ?Do you charge batteries inside the sub during the Travel??vbr Carsten???-----Original-Nachricht-----Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot FishDatum: 2016-08-06T17:31:39+0200Von: "Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ???Hello everyone,??we had to abort our trip not far after the beginning, as we detected quite a lot of carbon monoxide build up in the cabin, and could not find what it was and how to manage it. it basically reached 300ppm after 10 hours which is huge. We had brought some catalytic filter to human CO production twenty times lower than that. So the catalyst filter was not really able to get the rate down. It is not oxygen pollution.?The sensor may be off but we just did a blood test confirming level a bit above the normal levels.?that leaves maybe some chemicals like some glue we took in the tool box for repairs...??It would have been too dangerous to be at sea with such creeping CO level.??We probably now cannot make it for this tide window. We ll decide tonight what we do?regardsAntoine?On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 3:09 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Hi Emile,Do you know when the surface boat will be here in Guernsey?? I would like to go and meet them maybe.James On Friday, 5 August 2016, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Hi Alan, I also wanted t notify the group about the start. The Fb page of the project is the quickest link for info with sometimes near live video. A friend who supplied the comsets will be on the surface vessel from Guernsey to st. Malo The air quality? or bad luck can cause failure; not the sub? or the crew! Regards, Emile -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 5 augustus 2016 14:39 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish I have just seen on Facebook that Project Pilot Fish, where the guys are peddling their submarine across the English Channel, has started. I saw a video of them being towed out to sea. Emile did a lot of the build. Hope they make it, but have my doubts as it is quite a feat. If anyone (Emile) can update the group on the progress, it would be appreciated. Antoine has done an amazing job bringing this all together & getting sponsorship. Alan Sent from my iPad ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les?? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 7 12:40:34 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 18:40:34 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish In-Reply-To: <1207134886.10675075.1470586531149.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <5F66D0B1-3E33-45A2-A855-FC9BBD0E3166@yahoo.com> <089b01d1ef21$3d4004e0$b7c00ea0$@nl> <1470499904261.1519658.8c4823df5c5ce5be15a28dc438268aa83fe92f2c@spica.telekom.de> <099601d1efff$78ad5760$6a080620$@nl> <1470512304638.1519601.4ec4d79f4ccf5aecda1d62569d66ddba64415f9a@spica.telekom.de> <8FF83C4E-61E9-4C4E-8016-F2C28AC9A6AE@yahoo.com> <1207134886.10675075.1470586531149.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: yes we bag the batteries, the paint is two years old, we will see if there is still readings after that. regards Antoine On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 6:15 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Antoine, > How are you making a cover? Are you simply bagging the batteries? > I actually thought it was the paint also. > Hank > > > On Sunday, August 7, 2016 9:56 AM, Antoine Delafargue via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Alan and everyone > > Ok Carsten you may be right. We tested the batteries and they do trigger > the CO readings. so that is hydrogen right? no possibility to emit CO for a > battery? > but they do so when disconnected, neither when charged nor discharged! > which is puzzling. > > for now we are making a cover for the batteries and we ll put our catalyst > Inside. > > regards > Antoine > > > On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 4:49 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I wonder if there is anything coming out of the interior paint over time. > sometimes paint takes months to dry properly. > Or I have heard of the monitors being upset by paint fumes even though > they are not CO. You could heat up a section of paint work to help > accelerate > any leaching of chemicals, & tape a plastic bag with your CO meter in it > over the heated area of paint. If this is the problem go home & heat the > interior > for as many weeks as it takes. > You will get there eventually. Most of the hard work has been done already. > All the best. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 7/08/2016, at 12:22 pm, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > not sure H2 could be the culprit, as we charge batteries with open hatch > and then when diving we use minimal power levels. > > We do have active charcoal and Sofnocat H2/CO catalyst (which by the way > was warm when the CO level became high and we pulled it out) > > regards > Antoine > > On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:38 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Has Pilotfish Activcoal filter? Katalyst for H2 burning? > CO2 scrubber works normal on a little higher CO2 niveau than normal. > Some O2 mask for half our all 6 hours use or so could make it a better > stay. > > Two person in such a tiny space for so long.. > B.Voyage.. Carsten > > > > > -----Original-Nachricht----- > Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish > Datum: 2016-08-06T18:29:49+0200 > Von: "emile via Personal_Submersibles" > > An: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" rg > > > > > Carsten , Antoine, > > The batteries are not charged inside the sub. If the CO sensor is so > sensitive on H2, this might be the problem. > Sensor electronics failure due to the high humidity is also a possibility. > I never measure as my mission duration is much shorter. > > Emile > > > *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org ] *Namens * > MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles > *Verzonden:* zaterdag 6 augustus 2016 18:12 > *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish > > Antoine - if my CO Monitor on the Euronaut shows me 300 ppm CO this means > probably it is 60 ppm H2. > The sensor count both and shows H2 fifes time higher than it is. Will see > what the blood test shows. > > Do you charge batteries inside the sub during the Travel? > > vbr Carsten > > > > -----Original-Nachricht----- > Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish > Datum: 2016-08-06T17:31:39+0200 > Von: "Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles" rg > > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" rg > > > > > Hello everyone, > > we had to abort our trip not far after the beginning, as we detected quite > a lot of carbon monoxide build up in the cabin, and could not find what it > was and how to manage it. it basically reached 300ppm after 10 hours which > is huge. We had brought some catalytic filter to human CO production twenty > times lower than that. So the catalyst filter was not really able to get > the rate down. It is not oxygen pollution. > The sensor may be off but we just did a blood test confirming level a bit > above the normal levels. > that leaves maybe some chemicals like some glue we took in the tool box > for repairs... > It would have been too dangerous to be at sea with such creeping CO > level. > > We probably now cannot make it for this tide window. We ll decide tonight > what we do > > regards > Antoine > > On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 3:09 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles rg > wrote: > Hi Emile, > Do you know when the surface boat will be here in Guernsey? I would like > to go and meet them maybe. > James > > > On Friday, 5 August 2016, emile via Personal_Submersibles rg > wrote: > Hi Alan, > > I also wanted t notify the group about the start. The Fb page of the > project > is the quickest link for info with sometimes near live video. > A friend who supplied the comsets will be on the surface vessel from > Guernsey to st. Malo > The air quality or bad luck can cause failure; not the sub or the crew! > > Regards, Emile > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org ] > Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: vrijdag 5 augustus 2016 14:39 > Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish > > I have just seen on Facebook that Project Pilot Fish, where the guys are > peddling their submarine across the English Channel, has started. I saw a > video of them being towed out to sea. Emile did a lot of the build. > Hope they make it, but have my doubts as it is quite a feat. > If anyone (Emile) can update the group on the progress, it would be > appreciated. > Antoine has done an amazing job bringing this all together & getting > sponsorship. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > ? > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 8 03:42:05 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 03:42:05 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inflatable sub support In-Reply-To: References: <006301d1ecdb$6ecff350$4c6fd9f0$@gmail.com> <23acb630-79aa-770f-528c-8e4d3b0b9c45@psubs.org> <775574743.10039337.1470177748953.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <923F861E-653E-4497-A173-C65782A8C901@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yeah, I like the simple logistics/mechanics of a rig like you described here Alan. Let's face it, anything would be better than a full-on tow! I'm often big smoke/no fire when it comes to projects like these, but at the same time, we are going to be hurting in the Keys without something to make entry/egress safer and transit to/from dive locations more efficient. ~ Doug S. On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Doug, > Cliff was thinking about this issue a while back. > Perhaps a purpose built hard fibreglass hull that conforms to Snoopy's > lower hull, > with an inflatable pontoon attached, but with no back section. ( an > inflatable boat > with the back missing.) Use an air pump to deflate & inflate it. It would > probably > require a winch up front to help the sub get fully on board. If it was > strong enough > you could trailer the sub on this inflatable base. > It would increase the towing speed & make it easy to board in rough > conditions. > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 6/08/2016, at 3:13 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, I like that idea (a "pump barge"). Whatever we determine will work, > it's gonna have to deal with relatively rough seas. ~ Doug S. > > On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 9:56 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Doug, >> I have seen a number of inflatable pontoon systems for lifting boats >> above the water. They all used pumps to pump out the water. >> I wonder if there is merit in designing an inflatable pontoon that you >> could >> lower, & drive Snoopy on to, then fill with air & tow. It would >> solve the problem of boarding in rough seas, as you could climb in while >> it was up on the pontoons. The pontoons would also make it easier to >> board without bashing your boat against the sub. >> You would need a large barge if you are looking at hoisting in to the >> water. >> It wasn't the easiest in perfect conditions in to your canal. >> I think they use a ballasted platform in Hawaii ( similar idea) Scott >> might confirm >> that as he has just been there. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 3/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Good point Alan, wave height is an issue on more than one hand with >> Snoopy (as I'm sure you're aware). >> >> BTW, we're starting to look seriously into building or buying a barge for >> the Keys. We've got to get Snoopy out to the oceanside more quickly than by >> towing her. ~ Doug S. >> >> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Doug, >>> sounds like a cunning plan! >>> Be aware that it might work when the water surface is flat, >>> but fail if there is too much of a wave.av >>> I'm with Jon on having a descent surface communication system. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 3, 2016 8:29 AM >>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location >>> >>> 'Sound' thoughts Jon... :) ~ Doug S. >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Nothing wrong with Radio comms on surface, in fact you should have a VHF >>> for ocean water anyway. Depending upon the location of the transducer on >>> the vessel, at the surface you may find you don't have enough water column >>> to communicate effectively. Test first. >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> >>> On 8/2/2016 3:09 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Dad and I are planning to try a little experiment in regards to the >>> mounting location of Snoopy's transducer array. The idea is to mount the >>> array on a hinged whip behind the hatch. While she's on the surface the >>> transducer will be under the waterline for surfaced communication with >>> surface support (if the boat and sub are out of earshot of one another). >>> When Snoopy submerges, the array's float lifts the mast erect over the sub, >>> becoming the tallest part of the vessel while submerged. >>> >>> Just an idea, but we're keen to try it when we get the chance. One >>> possible drawback is entanglement danger... we've been thinking a lot about >>> that lately. ~ Doug S. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 8 05:38:05 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 09:38:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inflatable sub support In-Reply-To: References: <006301d1ecdb$6ecff350$4c6fd9f0$@gmail.com> <23acb630-79aa-770f-528c-8e4d3b0b9c45@psubs.org> <775574743.10039337.1470177748953.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <923F861E-653E-4497-A173-C65782A8C901@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1709190740.12469877.1470649085595.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Doug,in the mean time maybe something like a truck inner tubecould be temporarily fixed around the conning tower &inflated & deflated by a support diver. It could be stowedas a back up in case, as we experienced, you tow for hours& it's too rough to board.I think I have heard of?something like that?being done, moreexperienced members might shed a bit of light on that.Alan From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, August 8, 2016 7:42 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inflatable sub support Yeah, I like the simple logistics/mechanics of a rig like you described here Alan. Let's face it, anything would be better than a full-on tow! I'm often big smoke/no fire when it comes to projects like these, but at the same time, we are going to be hurting in the Keys without something to make entry/egress safer and transit to/from dive locations more efficient. ~ Doug S.? On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doug,Cliff was thinking about this issue a while back.Perhaps a purpose built hard fibreglass hull that conforms to Snoopy's lower hull,with an inflatable pontoon attached, but with no back section. ( an inflatable boatwith the back missing.) Use an air pump to deflate & inflate it. It would probablyrequire a winch up front to help the sub get fully on board. If it was strong enoughyou could trailer the sub on this inflatable base.It would increase the towing speed & make it easy to board in rough conditions.Alan Sent from my iPad On 6/08/2016, at 3:13 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I like that idea (a "pump barge"). Whatever we determine will work, it's gonna have to deal with relatively rough seas. ~ Doug S. ? On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 9:56 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doug,I have seen a number of inflatable pontoon systems for lifting boatsabove the water. They all used pumps to pump out the water.I wonder if there is merit in designing an inflatable pontoon that you couldlower, & drive Snoopy on to, then fill with air & tow.? It wouldsolve the problem of boarding in rough seas, as you could climb in whileit was up on the pontoons. The pontoons would also make it easier toboard without bashing your boat against the sub.You would need a large barge if you are looking at hoisting in to the water.It wasn't the easiest in perfect conditions in to your canal.I think they use a ballasted platform in Hawaii ( similar idea) Scott might confirm?that as he has just been there.Alan Sent from my iPad On 3/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Good point Alan, wave height is an issue on more than one hand with Snoopy (as I'm sure you're aware).? BTW, we're starting to look seriously into building or buying a barge for the Keys. We've got to get Snoopy out to the oceanside more quickly than by towing her. ~ Doug S.? On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doug,sounds like a cunning plan!Be aware that it might work when the water surface is flat,but fail if there is too much of a wave.avI'm with Jon on having a descent surface communication system.Alan From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2016 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location 'Sound' thoughts Jon... :) ~ Doug S. ? On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nothing wrong with Radio comms on surface, in fact you should have a VHF for ocean water anyway.? Depending upon the location of the transducer on the vessel, at the surface you may find you don't have enough water column to communicate effectively.? Test first. Jon On 8/2/2016 3:09 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Dad and I are planning to try a little experiment in regards to the mounting location of Snoopy's transducer array. The idea is to mount the array on a hinged whip behind the hatch. While she's on the surface the transducer will be under the waterline for surfaced communication with surface support (if the boat and sub are out of earshot of one another). When Snoopy submerges, the array's float lifts the mast erect over the sub, becoming the tallest part of the vessel while submerged. Just an idea, but we're keen to try it when we get the chance. One possible drawback is entanglement danger... we've been thinking a lot about that lately. ~ Doug S. ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 8 05:45:50 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 10:45:50 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish In-Reply-To: References: <5F66D0B1-3E33-45A2-A855-FC9BBD0E3166@yahoo.com> <089b01d1ef21$3d4004e0$b7c00ea0$@nl> <1470499904261.1519658.8c4823df5c5ce5be15a28dc438268aa83fe92f2c@spica.telekom.de> <099601d1efff$78ad5760$6a080620$@nl> <1470512304638.1519601.4ec4d79f4ccf5aecda1d62569d66ddba64415f9a@spica.telekom.de> <8FF83C4E-61E9-4C4E-8016-F2C28AC9A6AE@yahoo.com> <1207134886.10675075.1470586531149.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Antoine How are you testing the paint for CO? Regards James On 7 August 2016 at 17:40, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > yes we bag the batteries, > the paint is two years old, we will see if there is still readings after > that. > regards > Antoine > > On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 6:15 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Antoine, >> How are you making a cover? Are you simply bagging the batteries? >> I actually thought it was the paint also. >> Hank >> >> >> On Sunday, August 7, 2016 9:56 AM, Antoine Delafargue via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi Alan and everyone >> >> Ok Carsten you may be right. We tested the batteries and they do trigger >> the CO readings. so that is hydrogen right? no possibility to emit CO for a >> battery? >> but they do so when disconnected, neither when charged nor discharged! >> which is puzzling. >> >> for now we are making a cover for the batteries and we ll put our >> catalyst Inside. >> >> regards >> Antoine >> >> >> On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 4:49 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> I wonder if there is anything coming out of the interior paint over time. >> sometimes paint takes months to dry properly. >> Or I have heard of the monitors being upset by paint fumes even though >> they are not CO. You could heat up a section of paint work to help >> accelerate >> any leaching of chemicals, & tape a plastic bag with your CO meter in it >> over the heated area of paint. If this is the problem go home & heat the >> interior >> for as many weeks as it takes. >> You will get there eventually. Most of the hard work has been done >> already. >> All the best. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 7/08/2016, at 12:22 pm, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles > org > wrote: >> >> not sure H2 could be the culprit, as we charge batteries with open hatch >> and then when diving we use minimal power levels. >> >> We do have active charcoal and Sofnocat H2/CO catalyst (which by the way >> was warm when the CO level became high and we pulled it out) >> >> regards >> Antoine >> >> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:38 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via >> Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: >> >> Has Pilotfish Activcoal filter? Katalyst for H2 burning? >> CO2 scrubber works normal on a little higher CO2 niveau than normal. >> Some O2 mask for half our all 6 hours use or so could make it a better >> stay. >> >> Two person in such a tiny space for so long.. >> B.Voyage.. Carsten >> >> >> >> >> -----Original-Nachricht----- >> Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish >> Datum: 2016-08-06T18:29:49+0200 >> Von: "emile via Personal_Submersibles" > > >> An: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" > rg > >> >> >> >> Carsten , Antoine, >> >> The batteries are not charged inside the sub. If the CO sensor is so >> sensitive on H2, this might be the problem. >> Sensor electronics failure due to the high humidity is also a possibility. >> I never measure as my mission duration is much shorter. >> >> Emile >> >> >> *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- >> bounces at psubs.org ] *Namens * >> MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles >> *Verzonden:* zaterdag 6 augustus 2016 18:12 >> *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish >> >> Antoine - if my CO Monitor on the Euronaut shows me 300 ppm CO this >> means probably it is 60 ppm H2. >> The sensor count both and shows H2 fifes time higher than it is. Will see >> what the blood test shows. >> >> Do you charge batteries inside the sub during the Travel? >> >> vbr Carsten >> >> >> >> -----Original-Nachricht----- >> Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish >> Datum: 2016-08-06T17:31:39+0200 >> Von: "Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles" > rg > >> An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > rg > >> >> >> >> Hello everyone, >> >> we had to abort our trip not far after the beginning, as we detected >> quite a lot of carbon monoxide build up in the cabin, and could not find >> what it was and how to manage it. it basically reached 300ppm after 10 >> hours which is huge. We had brought some catalytic filter to human CO >> production twenty times lower than that. So the catalyst filter was not >> really able to get the rate down. It is not oxygen pollution. >> The sensor may be off but we just did a blood test confirming level a bit >> above the normal levels. >> that leaves maybe some chemicals like some glue we took in the tool box >> for repairs... >> It would have been too dangerous to be at sea with such creeping CO >> level. >> >> We probably now cannot make it for this tide window. We ll decide tonight >> what we do >> >> regards >> Antoine >> >> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 3:09 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >> > >> wrote: >> Hi Emile, >> Do you know when the surface boat will be here in Guernsey? I would like >> to go and meet them maybe. >> James >> >> >> On Friday, 5 August 2016, emile via Personal_Submersibles > rg > wrote: >> Hi Alan, >> >> I also wanted t notify the group about the start. The Fb page of the >> project >> is the quickest link for info with sometimes near live video. >> A friend who supplied the comsets will be on the surface vessel from >> Guernsey to st. Malo >> The air quality or bad luck can cause failure; not the sub or the crew! >> >> Regards, Emile >> >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- >> bounces at psubs.org ] >> Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> Verzonden: vrijdag 5 augustus 2016 14:39 >> Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish >> >> I have just seen on Facebook that Project Pilot Fish, where the guys are >> peddling their submarine across the English Channel, has started. I saw a >> video of them being towed out to sea. Emile did a lot of the build. >> Hope they make it, but have my doubts as it is quite a feat. >> If anyone (Emile) can update the group on the progress, it would be >> appreciated. >> Antoine has done an amazing job bringing this all together & getting >> sponsorship. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >> >> >> ? >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 8 09:55:43 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 14:55:43 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inflatable sub support In-Reply-To: <1709190740.12469877.1470649085595.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <006301d1ecdb$6ecff350$4c6fd9f0$@gmail.com> <23acb630-79aa-770f-528c-8e4d3b0b9c45@psubs.org> <775574743.10039337.1470177748953.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <923F861E-653E-4497-A173-C65782A8C901@yahoo.com> <1709190740.12469877.1470649085595.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Doug, Id thought about getting a small ish catermaran with an outboard on each hull. Construct some rails\mounts or even just ropes to tie the sub between the hulls. You could drive to the dive spot , get in from above and recover the same way. Possibility? James On 8 August 2016 at 10:38, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Doug, > in the mean time maybe something like a truck inner tube > could be temporarily fixed around the conning tower & > inflated & deflated by a support diver. It could be stowed > as a back up in case, as we experienced, you tow for hours > & it's too rough to board. > I think I have heard of something like that being done, more > experienced members might shed a bit of light on that. > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Monday, August 8, 2016 7:42 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inflatable sub support > > Yeah, I like the simple logistics/mechanics of a rig like you described > here Alan. Let's face it, anything would be better than a full-on tow! I'm > often big smoke/no fire when it comes to projects like these, but at the > same time, we are going to be hurting in the Keys without something to make > entry/egress safer and transit to/from dive locations more efficient. ~ > Doug S. > > On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Doug, > Cliff was thinking about this issue a while back. > Perhaps a purpose built hard fibreglass hull that conforms to Snoopy's > lower hull, > with an inflatable pontoon attached, but with no back section. ( an > inflatable boat > with the back missing.) Use an air pump to deflate & inflate it. It would > probably > require a winch up front to help the sub get fully on board. If it was > strong enough > you could trailer the sub on this inflatable base. > It would increase the towing speed & make it easy to board in rough > conditions. > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 6/08/2016, at 3:13 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > Alan, I like that idea (a "pump barge"). Whatever we determine will work, > it's gonna have to deal with relatively rough seas. ~ Doug S. > > On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 9:56 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > Doug, > I have seen a number of inflatable pontoon systems for lifting boats > above the water. They all used pumps to pump out the water. > I wonder if there is merit in designing an inflatable pontoon that you > could > lower, & drive Snoopy on to, then fill with air & tow. It would > solve the problem of boarding in rough seas, as you could climb in while > it was up on the pontoons. The pontoons would also make it easier to > board without bashing your boat against the sub. > You would need a large barge if you are looking at hoisting in to the > water. > It wasn't the easiest in perfect conditions in to your canal. > I think they use a ballasted platform in Hawaii ( similar idea) Scott > might confirm > that as he has just been there. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 3/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > Good point Alan, wave height is an issue on more than one hand with Snoopy > (as I'm sure you're aware). > > BTW, we're starting to look seriously into building or buying a barge for > the Keys. We've got to get Snoopy out to the oceanside more quickly than by > towing her. ~ Doug S. > > On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > Doug, > sounds like a cunning plan! > Be aware that it might work when the water surface is flat, > but fail if there is too much of a wave.av > I'm with Jon on having a descent surface communication system. > Alan > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 3, 2016 8:29 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location > > 'Sound' thoughts Jon... :) ~ Doug S. > > On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > > Nothing wrong with Radio comms on surface, in fact you should have a VHF > for ocean water anyway. Depending upon the location of the transducer on > the vessel, at the surface you may find you don't have enough water column > to communicate effectively. Test first. > > Jon > > > On 8/2/2016 3:09 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Dad and I are planning to try a little experiment in regards to the > mounting location of Snoopy's transducer array. The idea is to mount the > array on a hinged whip behind the hatch. While she's on the surface the > transducer will be under the waterline for surfaced communication with > surface support (if the boat and sub are out of earshot of one another). > When Snoopy submerges, the array's float lifts the mast erect over the sub, > becoming the tallest part of the vessel while submerged. > > Just an idea, but we're keen to try it when we get the chance. One > possible drawback is entanglement danger... we've been thinking a lot about > that lately. ~ Doug S. > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 8 11:28:51 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 08:28:51 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inflatable sub support In-Reply-To: References: <006301d1ecdb$6ecff350$4c6fd9f0$@gmail.com> <23acb630-79aa-770f-528c-8e4d3b0b9c45@psubs.org> <775574743.10039337.1470177748953.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <923F861E-653E-4497-A173-C65782A8C901@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Doug, I remember the tow out if the snoopy in the keys. It seems to me that bases upon the number of used boats in the area, I'd buy and fiberglass boat for just the bow. Get out the Sawzall cut off what I need, weld up a cradle that could link to hull of snoopy, use Alans ideal of a inner tube, but use it as an expandable cushion between fg hull and snoopy. Your then ready to tow. David Colombo On Aug 8, 2016 12:43 AM, "Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Yeah, I like the simple logistics/mechanics of a rig like you described > here Alan. Let's face it, anything would be better than a full-on tow! I'm > often big smoke/no fire when it comes to projects like these, but at the > same time, we are going to be hurting in the Keys without something to make > entry/egress safer and transit to/from dive locations more efficient. ~ > Doug S. > > On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Doug, >> Cliff was thinking about this issue a while back. >> Perhaps a purpose built hard fibreglass hull that conforms to Snoopy's >> lower hull, >> with an inflatable pontoon attached, but with no back section. ( an >> inflatable boat >> with the back missing.) Use an air pump to deflate & inflate it. It would >> probably >> require a winch up front to help the sub get fully on board. If it was >> strong enough >> you could trailer the sub on this inflatable base. >> It would increase the towing speed & make it easy to board in rough >> conditions. >> Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 6/08/2016, at 3:13 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Alan, I like that idea (a "pump barge"). Whatever we determine will work, >> it's gonna have to deal with relatively rough seas. ~ Doug S. >> >> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 9:56 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Doug, >>> I have seen a number of inflatable pontoon systems for lifting boats >>> above the water. They all used pumps to pump out the water. >>> I wonder if there is merit in designing an inflatable pontoon that you >>> could >>> lower, & drive Snoopy on to, then fill with air & tow. It would >>> solve the problem of boarding in rough seas, as you could climb in while >>> it was up on the pontoons. The pontoons would also make it easier to >>> board without bashing your boat against the sub. >>> You would need a large barge if you are looking at hoisting in to the >>> water. >>> It wasn't the easiest in perfect conditions in to your canal. >>> I think they use a ballasted platform in Hawaii ( similar idea) Scott >>> might confirm >>> that as he has just been there. >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 3/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Good point Alan, wave height is an issue on more than one hand with >>> Snoopy (as I'm sure you're aware). >>> >>> BTW, we're starting to look seriously into building or buying a barge >>> for the Keys. We've got to get Snoopy out to the oceanside more quickly >>> than by towing her. ~ Doug S. >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Doug, >>>> sounds like a cunning plan! >>>> Be aware that it might work when the water surface is flat, >>>> but fail if there is too much of a wave.av >>>> I'm with Jon on having a descent surface communication system. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From:* Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 3, 2016 8:29 AM >>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location >>>> >>>> 'Sound' thoughts Jon... :) ~ Doug S. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Nothing wrong with Radio comms on surface, in fact you should have a >>>> VHF for ocean water anyway. Depending upon the location of the transducer >>>> on the vessel, at the surface you may find you don't have enough water >>>> column to communicate effectively. Test first. >>>> >>>> Jon >>>> >>>> >>>> On 8/2/2016 3:09 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Dad and I are planning to try a little experiment in regards to the >>>> mounting location of Snoopy's transducer array. The idea is to mount the >>>> array on a hinged whip behind the hatch. While she's on the surface the >>>> transducer will be under the waterline for surfaced communication with >>>> surface support (if the boat and sub are out of earshot of one another). >>>> When Snoopy submerges, the array's float lifts the mast erect over the sub, >>>> becoming the tallest part of the vessel while submerged. >>>> >>>> Just an idea, but we're keen to try it when we get the chance. One >>>> possible drawback is entanglement danger... we've been thinking a lot about >>>> that lately. ~ Doug S. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 8 13:39:04 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 13:39:04 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inflatable sub support In-Reply-To: References: <006301d1ecdb$6ecff350$4c6fd9f0$@gmail.com> <23acb630-79aa-770f-528c-8e4d3b0b9c45@psubs.org> <775574743.10039337.1470177748953.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <923F861E-653E-4497-A173-C65782A8C901@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan / James / Dave, all great suggestions, thanks for the ideas! As much as we could all sit here and spec out our dream tender/support boat, I think you guys are wise to suggest the KISS method in one way or another. I probably favor the idea of starting with a two hulled (cat/party barge) design the most, but it will depend on what is available for cheap at the time we go to buy :) ~ Doug On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 11:28 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Doug, I remember the tow out if the snoopy in the keys. It seems to me > that bases upon the number of used boats in the area, I'd buy and > fiberglass boat for just the bow. Get out the Sawzall cut off what I need, > weld up a cradle that could link to hull of snoopy, use Alans ideal of a > inner tube, but use it as an expandable cushion between fg hull and snoopy. > Your then ready to tow. > David Colombo > On Aug 8, 2016 12:43 AM, "Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Yeah, I like the simple logistics/mechanics of a rig like you described >> here Alan. Let's face it, anything would be better than a full-on tow! I'm >> often big smoke/no fire when it comes to projects like these, but at the >> same time, we are going to be hurting in the Keys without something to make >> entry/egress safer and transit to/from dive locations more efficient. ~ >> Doug S. >> >> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Doug, >>> Cliff was thinking about this issue a while back. >>> Perhaps a purpose built hard fibreglass hull that conforms to Snoopy's >>> lower hull, >>> with an inflatable pontoon attached, but with no back section. ( an >>> inflatable boat >>> with the back missing.) Use an air pump to deflate & inflate it. It >>> would probably >>> require a winch up front to help the sub get fully on board. If it was >>> strong enough >>> you could trailer the sub on this inflatable base. >>> It would increase the towing speed & make it easy to board in rough >>> conditions. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 6/08/2016, at 3:13 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Alan, I like that idea (a "pump barge"). Whatever we determine will >>> work, it's gonna have to deal with relatively rough seas. ~ Doug S. >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 9:56 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Doug, >>>> I have seen a number of inflatable pontoon systems for lifting boats >>>> above the water. They all used pumps to pump out the water. >>>> I wonder if there is merit in designing an inflatable pontoon that you >>>> could >>>> lower, & drive Snoopy on to, then fill with air & tow. It would >>>> solve the problem of boarding in rough seas, as you could climb in while >>>> it was up on the pontoons. The pontoons would also make it easier to >>>> board without bashing your boat against the sub. >>>> You would need a large barge if you are looking at hoisting in to the >>>> water. >>>> It wasn't the easiest in perfect conditions in to your canal. >>>> I think they use a ballasted platform in Hawaii ( similar idea) Scott >>>> might confirm >>>> that as he has just been there. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On 3/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> Good point Alan, wave height is an issue on more than one hand with >>>> Snoopy (as I'm sure you're aware). >>>> >>>> BTW, we're starting to look seriously into building or buying a barge >>>> for the Keys. We've got to get Snoopy out to the oceanside more quickly >>>> than by towing her. ~ Doug S. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Doug, >>>>> sounds like a cunning plan! >>>>> Be aware that it might work when the water surface is flat, >>>>> but fail if there is too much of a wave.av >>>>> I'm with Jon on having a descent surface communication system. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> *From:* Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 3, 2016 8:29 AM >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location >>>>> >>>>> 'Sound' thoughts Jon... :) ~ Doug S. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Nothing wrong with Radio comms on surface, in fact you should have a >>>>> VHF for ocean water anyway. Depending upon the location of the transducer >>>>> on the vessel, at the surface you may find you don't have enough water >>>>> column to communicate effectively. Test first. >>>>> >>>>> Jon >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 8/2/2016 3:09 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dad and I are planning to try a little experiment in regards to the >>>>> mounting location of Snoopy's transducer array. The idea is to mount the >>>>> array on a hinged whip behind the hatch. While she's on the surface the >>>>> transducer will be under the waterline for surfaced communication with >>>>> surface support (if the boat and sub are out of earshot of one another). >>>>> When Snoopy submerges, the array's float lifts the mast erect over the sub, >>>>> becoming the tallest part of the vessel while submerged. >>>>> >>>>> Just an idea, but we're keen to try it when we get the chance. One >>>>> possible drawback is entanglement danger... we've been thinking a lot about >>>>> that lately. ~ Doug S. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 8 14:23:39 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 06:23:39 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish In-Reply-To: References: <5F66D0B1-3E33-45A2-A855-FC9BBD0E3166@yahoo.com> <089b01d1ef21$3d4004e0$b7c00ea0$@nl> <1470499904261.1519658.8c4823df5c5ce5be15a28dc438268aa83fe92f2c@spica.telekom.de> <099601d1efff$78ad5760$6a080620$@nl> <1470512304638.1519601.4ec4d79f4ccf5aecda1d62569d66ddba64415f9a@spica.telekom.de> <8FF83C4E-61E9-4C4E-8016-F2C28AC9A6AE@yahoo.com> <1207134886.10675075.1470586531149.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Antoine, if you are not already under the water again, what about changing the batteries for sealed lead acid batteries. These won't let out any gas unless overcharged or on high discharge. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 8/08/2016, at 4:40 am, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > yes we bag the batteries, > the paint is two years old, we will see if there is still readings after that. > regards > Antoine > >> On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 6:15 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Antoine, >> How are you making a cover? Are you simply bagging the batteries? >> I actually thought it was the paint also. >> Hank >> >> >> On Sunday, August 7, 2016 9:56 AM, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi Alan and everyone >> >> Ok Carsten you may be right. We tested the batteries and they do trigger the CO readings. so that is hydrogen right? no possibility to emit CO for a battery? >> but they do so when disconnected, neither when charged nor discharged! which is puzzling. >> >> for now we are making a cover for the batteries and we ll put our catalyst Inside. >> >> regards >> Antoine >> >> >> On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 4:49 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> I wonder if there is anything coming out of the interior paint over time. >> sometimes paint takes months to dry properly. >> Or I have heard of the monitors being upset by paint fumes even though >> they are not CO. You could heat up a section of paint work to help accelerate >> any leaching of chemicals, & tape a plastic bag with your CO meter in it >> over the heated area of paint. If this is the problem go home & heat the interior >> for as many weeks as it takes. >> You will get there eventually. Most of the hard work has been done already. >> All the best. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 7/08/2016, at 12:22 pm, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> not sure H2 could be the culprit, as we charge batteries with open hatch and then when diving we use minimal power levels. >>> >>> We do have active charcoal and Sofnocat H2/CO catalyst (which by the way was warm when the CO level became high and we pulled it out) >>> >>> regards >>> Antoine >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:38 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Has Pilotfish Activcoal filter? Katalyst for H2 burning? >>> CO2 scrubber works normal on a little higher CO2 niveau than normal. >>> Some O2 mask for half our all 6 hours use or so could make it a better stay. >>> >>> Two person in such a tiny space for so long.. >>> B.Voyage.. Carsten >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original-Nachricht----- >>> Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish >>> Datum: 2016-08-06T18:29:49+0200 >>> Von: "emile via Personal_Submersibles" >>> An: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" >>> >>> >>> >>> Carsten , Antoine, >>> >>> The batteries are not charged inside the sub. If the CO sensor is so sensitive on H2, this might be the problem. >>> Sensor electronics failure due to the high humidity is also a possibility. >>> I never measure as my mission duration is much shorter. >>> >>> Emile >>> >>> >>> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- bounces at psubs.org] Namens MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles >>> Verzonden: zaterdag 6 augustus 2016 18:12 >>> Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish >>> >>> Antoine - if my CO Monitor on the Euronaut shows me 300 ppm CO this means probably it is 60 ppm H2. >>> The sensor count both and shows H2 fifes time higher than it is. Will see what the blood test shows. >>> >>> Do you charge batteries inside the sub during the Travel? >>> >>> vbr Carsten >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original-Nachricht----- >>> Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish >>> Datum: 2016-08-06T17:31:39+0200 >>> Von: "Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles" >>> An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >>> >>> >>> >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> we had to abort our trip not far after the beginning, as we detected quite a lot of carbon monoxide build up in the cabin, and could not find what it was and how to manage it. it basically reached 300ppm after 10 hours which is huge. We had brought some catalytic filter to human CO production twenty times lower than that. So the catalyst filter was not really able to get the rate down. It is not oxygen pollution. >>> The sensor may be off but we just did a blood test confirming level a bit above the normal levels. >>> that leaves maybe some chemicals like some glue we took in the tool box for repairs... >>> It would have been too dangerous to be at sea with such creeping CO level. >>> >>> We probably now cannot make it for this tide window. We ll decide tonight what we do >>> >>> regards >>> Antoine >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 3:09 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Hi Emile, >>> Do you know when the surface boat will be here in Guernsey? I would like to go and meet them maybe. >>> James >>> >>> >>> On Friday, 5 August 2016, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Hi Alan, >>> >>> I also wanted t notify the group about the start. The Fb page of the project >>> is the quickest link for info with sometimes near live video. >>> A friend who supplied the comsets will be on the surface vessel from >>> Guernsey to st. Malo >>> The air quality or bad luck can cause failure; not the sub or the crew! >>> >>> Regards, Emile >>> >>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- bounces at psubs.org] >>> Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> Verzonden: vrijdag 5 augustus 2016 14:39 >>> Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish >>> >>> I have just seen on Facebook that Project Pilot Fish, where the guys are >>> peddling their submarine across the English Channel, has started. I saw a >>> video of them being towed out to sea. Emile did a lot of the build. >>> Hope they make it, but have my doubts as it is quite a feat. >>> If anyone (Emile) can update the group on the progress, it would be >>> appreciated. >>> Antoine has done an amazing job bringing this all together & getting >>> sponsorship. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>> >>> ? >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 8 15:08:24 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 07:08:24 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inflatable sub support In-Reply-To: References: <006301d1ecdb$6ecff350$4c6fd9f0$@gmail.com> <23acb630-79aa-770f-528c-8e4d3b0b9c45@psubs.org> <775574743.10039337.1470177748953.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <923F861E-653E-4497-A173-C65782A8C901@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Doug, Graham Hawkes had a modified catamaran for transporting one of his subs. I couldn't find an image of it but it was posted on Psubs a few years back. I am not sure whether this was successful or not. I am guessing it wasn't as I haven't seen it again. A problem with it could be that you would have to manoeuvre over the submersible, & then attach cables. In slightly rough seas you would need lateral control of the catamaran to keep it from riding on to the sub. The experience out from Islamorada where 3 of us were trying to hold your boat at arms length from Snoopy to transfer passengers, was a bit of a lesson. I have said it before, but the sub seemed to remain stationary in the water column while the boat bounced up & down around it, & was in danger of landing on it. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 9/08/2016, at 5:39 am, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan / James / Dave, all great suggestions, thanks for the ideas! As much as we could all sit here and spec out our dream tender/support boat, I think you guys are wise to suggest the KISS method in one way or another. > > I probably favor the idea of starting with a two hulled (cat/party barge) design the most, but it will depend on what is available for cheap at the time we go to buy :) ~ Doug > >> On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 11:28 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hi Doug, I remember the tow out if the snoopy in the keys. It seems to me that bases upon the number of used boats in the area, I'd buy and fiberglass boat for just the bow. Get out the Sawzall cut off what I need, weld up a cradle that could link to hull of snoopy, use Alans ideal of a inner tube, but use it as an expandable cushion between fg hull and snoopy. Your then ready to tow. >> David Colombo >> >>> On Aug 8, 2016 12:43 AM, "Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >>> Yeah, I like the simple logistics/mechanics of a rig like you described here Alan. Let's face it, anything would be better than a full-on tow! I'm often big smoke/no fire when it comes to projects like these, but at the same time, we are going to be hurting in the Keys without something to make entry/egress safer and transit to/from dive locations more efficient. ~ Doug S. >>> >>>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Doug, >>>> Cliff was thinking about this issue a while back. >>>> Perhaps a purpose built hard fibreglass hull that conforms to Snoopy's lower hull, >>>> with an inflatable pontoon attached, but with no back section. ( an inflatable boat >>>> with the back missing.) Use an air pump to deflate & inflate it. It would probably >>>> require a winch up front to help the sub get fully on board. If it was strong enough >>>> you could trailer the sub on this inflatable base. >>>> It would increase the towing speed & make it easy to board in rough conditions. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 6/08/2016, at 3:13 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Alan, I like that idea (a "pump barge"). Whatever we determine will work, it's gonna have to deal with relatively rough seas. ~ Doug S. >>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 9:56 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> Doug, >>>>>> I have seen a number of inflatable pontoon systems for lifting boats >>>>>> above the water. They all used pumps to pump out the water. >>>>>> I wonder if there is merit in designing an inflatable pontoon that you could >>>>>> lower, & drive Snoopy on to, then fill with air & tow. It would >>>>>> solve the problem of boarding in rough seas, as you could climb in while >>>>>> it was up on the pontoons. The pontoons would also make it easier to >>>>>> board without bashing your boat against the sub. >>>>>> You would need a large barge if you are looking at hoisting in to the water. >>>>>> It wasn't the easiest in perfect conditions in to your canal. >>>>>> I think they use a ballasted platform in Hawaii ( similar idea) Scott might confirm >>>>>> that as he has just been there. >>>>>> Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Good point Alan, wave height is an issue on more than one hand with Snoopy (as I'm sure you're aware). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> BTW, we're starting to look seriously into building or buying a barge for the Keys. We've got to get Snoopy out to the oceanside more quickly than by towing her. ~ Doug S. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> Doug, >>>>>>>> sounds like a cunning plan! >>>>>>>> Be aware that it might work when the water surface is flat, >>>>>>>> but fail if there is too much of a wave.av >>>>>>>> I'm with Jon on having a descent surface communication system. >>>>>>>> Alan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2016 8:29 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 'Sound' thoughts Jon... :) ~ Doug S. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nothing wrong with Radio comms on surface, in fact you should have a VHF for ocean water anyway. Depending upon the location of the transducer on the vessel, at the surface you may find you don't have enough water column to communicate effectively. Test first. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jon >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 8/2/2016 3:09 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> Dad and I are planning to try a little experiment in regards to the mounting location of Snoopy's transducer array. The idea is to mount the array on a hinged whip behind the hatch. While she's on the surface the transducer will be under the waterline for surfaced communication with surface support (if the boat and sub are out of earshot of one another). When Snoopy submerges, the array's float lifts the mast erect over the sub, becoming the tallest part of the vessel while submerged. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just an idea, but we're keen to try it when we get the chance. One possible drawback is entanglement danger... we've been thinking a lot about that lately. ~ Doug S. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 8 16:26:01 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 16:26:01 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inflatable sub support In-Reply-To: References: <006301d1ecdb$6ecff350$4c6fd9f0$@gmail.com> <23acb630-79aa-770f-528c-8e4d3b0b9c45@psubs.org> <775574743.10039337.1470177748953.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <923F861E-653E-4497-A173-C65782A8C901@yahoo.com> Message-ID: That is my biggest concern with the cat/floating gantry idea - the sub and tender will behave so differently in any given wave action. Here's an idea I've been pondering since last spring... it won't help with transport time, but it could potentially make entry/egress safer (ie preventing a cabin flood/sinking situation): The last couple of years down in Florida, I've seen these fiberglass mooring poles being used on boats in the canals. They're like fishing poles, but much stronger... semi-rigid but still quite flexable. The poles are mounted at an angle off your dock. They moor your boat, hold it away from the dock and flex up and down with the tides and waves. Now supposing we had a couple of those babies mounted aft-ways off the Whaler. When we wanted to do a crew swap, a support diver would hook the pole lines to the lifting lugs on the sub. This would hold the sub away from the boat, flex to make the difference between boat and sub and provide extra support/tipping safety while changing crew. ~ Doug S. On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 3:08 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Doug, > Graham Hawkes had a modified catamaran for transporting one of > his subs. I couldn't find an image of it but it was posted on Psubs a few > years back. I am not sure whether this was successful or not. I am > guessing it wasn't as I haven't seen it again. > A problem with it could be that you would have to manoeuvre over > the submersible, & then attach cables. In slightly rough seas you would > need lateral control of the catamaran to keep it from riding on to the sub. > The experience out from Islamorada where 3 of us were trying to hold > your boat at arms length from Snoopy to transfer passengers, was a bit > of a lesson. I have said it before, but the sub seemed to remain stationary > in the water column while the boat bounced up & down around it, & was > in danger of landing on it. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 9/08/2016, at 5:39 am, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan / James / Dave, all great suggestions, thanks for the ideas! As much > as we could all sit here and spec out our dream tender/support boat, I > think you guys are wise to suggest the KISS method in one way or another. > > I probably favor the idea of starting with a two hulled (cat/party barge) > design the most, but it will depend on what is available for cheap at the > time we go to buy :) ~ Doug > > On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 11:28 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi Doug, I remember the tow out if the snoopy in the keys. It seems to me >> that bases upon the number of used boats in the area, I'd buy and >> fiberglass boat for just the bow. Get out the Sawzall cut off what I need, >> weld up a cradle that could link to hull of snoopy, use Alans ideal of a >> inner tube, but use it as an expandable cushion between fg hull and snoopy. >> Your then ready to tow. >> David Colombo >> On Aug 8, 2016 12:43 AM, "Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles" < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Yeah, I like the simple logistics/mechanics of a rig like you described >>> here Alan. Let's face it, anything would be better than a full-on tow! I'm >>> often big smoke/no fire when it comes to projects like these, but at the >>> same time, we are going to be hurting in the Keys without something to make >>> entry/egress safer and transit to/from dive locations more efficient. ~ >>> Doug S. >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Doug, >>>> Cliff was thinking about this issue a while back. >>>> Perhaps a purpose built hard fibreglass hull that conforms to Snoopy's >>>> lower hull, >>>> with an inflatable pontoon attached, but with no back section. ( an >>>> inflatable boat >>>> with the back missing.) Use an air pump to deflate & inflate it. It >>>> would probably >>>> require a winch up front to help the sub get fully on board. If it was >>>> strong enough >>>> you could trailer the sub on this inflatable base. >>>> It would increase the towing speed & make it easy to board in rough >>>> conditions. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On 6/08/2016, at 3:13 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> Alan, I like that idea (a "pump barge"). Whatever we determine will >>>> work, it's gonna have to deal with relatively rough seas. ~ Doug S. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 9:56 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Doug, >>>>> I have seen a number of inflatable pontoon systems for lifting boats >>>>> above the water. They all used pumps to pump out the water. >>>>> I wonder if there is merit in designing an inflatable pontoon that you >>>>> could >>>>> lower, & drive Snoopy on to, then fill with air & tow. It would >>>>> solve the problem of boarding in rough seas, as you could climb in >>>>> while >>>>> it was up on the pontoons. The pontoons would also make it easier to >>>>> board without bashing your boat against the sub. >>>>> You would need a large barge if you are looking at hoisting in to the >>>>> water. >>>>> It wasn't the easiest in perfect conditions in to your canal. >>>>> I think they use a ballasted platform in Hawaii ( similar idea) Scott >>>>> might confirm >>>>> that as he has just been there. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>> On 3/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Good point Alan, wave height is an issue on more than one hand with >>>>> Snoopy (as I'm sure you're aware). >>>>> >>>>> BTW, we're starting to look seriously into building or buying a barge >>>>> for the Keys. We've got to get Snoopy out to the oceanside more quickly >>>>> than by towing her. ~ Doug S. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Doug, >>>>>> sounds like a cunning plan! >>>>>> Be aware that it might work when the water surface is flat, >>>>>> but fail if there is too much of a wave.av >>>>>> I'm with Jon on having a descent surface communication system. >>>>>> Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> *From:* Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 3, 2016 8:29 AM >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location >>>>>> >>>>>> 'Sound' thoughts Jon... :) ~ Doug S. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Nothing wrong with Radio comms on surface, in fact you should have a >>>>>> VHF for ocean water anyway. Depending upon the location of the transducer >>>>>> on the vessel, at the surface you may find you don't have enough water >>>>>> column to communicate effectively. Test first. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jon >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 8/2/2016 3:09 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Dad and I are planning to try a little experiment in regards to the >>>>>> mounting location of Snoopy's transducer array. The idea is to mount the >>>>>> array on a hinged whip behind the hatch. While she's on the surface the >>>>>> transducer will be under the waterline for surfaced communication with >>>>>> surface support (if the boat and sub are out of earshot of one another). >>>>>> When Snoopy submerges, the array's float lifts the mast erect over the sub, >>>>>> becoming the tallest part of the vessel while submerged. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just an idea, but we're keen to try it when we get the chance. One >>>>>> possible drawback is entanglement danger... we've been thinking a lot about >>>>>> that lately. ~ Doug S. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 8 18:42:47 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 22:42:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inflatable sub support In-Reply-To: References: <006301d1ecdb$6ecff350$4c6fd9f0$@gmail.com> <23acb630-79aa-770f-528c-8e4d3b0b9c45@psubs.org> <775574743.10039337.1470177748953.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <923F861E-653E-4497-A173-C65782A8C901@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1201035963.13207071.1470696167927.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Found these pix. Maybe someone can I.D. them. Pete From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, August 8, 2016 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inflatable sub support That is my biggest concern with the cat/floating gantry idea - the sub and tender will behave so differently in any given wave action. ? Here's an idea I've been pondering since last spring... it won't help with transport time, but it could potentially make entry/egress safer (ie preventing a cabin flood/sinking situation): The last couple of years down in Florida, I've seen these fiberglass mooring poles being used on boats in the canals. They're like fishing poles, but much stronger... semi-rigid but still quite flexable. The poles are mounted at an angle off your dock. They moor your boat, hold it away from the dock and flex up and down with the tides and waves. Now supposing we had a couple of those babies mounted aft-ways off the Whaler. When we wanted to do a crew swap, a support diver would hook the pole lines to the lifting lugs on the sub. This would hold the sub away from the boat, flex to make the difference between boat and sub and provide extra support/tipping safety while changing crew. ~ Doug S. ? ?? On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 3:08 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doug,Graham Hawkes had a modified catamaran for transporting one ofhis subs. I couldn't find an image of it but it was posted on Psubs a fewyears back. I am not sure whether this was successful or not. I amguessing it wasn't as I haven't seen it again.A problem with it could be that you would have to manoeuvre over?the submersible, & then attach cables. In slightly rough seas you wouldneed lateral control of the catamaran to keep it from riding on to the sub.? ?The experience out from Islamorada where 3 of us were trying to holdyour boat at arms length from Snoopy to transfer passengers, was a bitof a lesson. I have said it before, but the sub seemed to remain stationaryin the water column while the boat bounced up & down around it, & wasin danger of landing on it.?Alan? ? Sent from my iPad On 9/08/2016, at 5:39 am, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan / James / Dave, all great suggestions, thanks for the ideas! As much as we could all sit here and spec out our dream tender/support boat, I think you guys are wise to suggest the KISS method in one way or another.? I probably favor the idea of starting with a two hulled (cat/party barge) design the most, but it will depend on what is available for cheap at the time we go to buy :) ~ Doug? On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 11:28 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Doug, I remember the tow out if the snoopy in the keys. It seems to me that bases upon the number of used boats in the area, I'd buy and fiberglass boat for just the bow. Get out the Sawzall cut off what I need, weld up a cradle that could link to hull of snoopy, use Alans ideal of a inner tube, but use it as an expandable cushion between fg hull and snoopy. Your then ready to tow. David ColomboOn Aug 8, 2016 12:43 AM, "Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Yeah, I like the simple logistics/mechanics of a rig like you described here Alan. Let's face it, anything would be better than a full-on tow! I'm often big smoke/no fire when it comes to projects like these, but at the same time, we are going to be hurting in the Keys without something to make entry/egress safer and transit to/from dive locations more efficient. ~ Doug S.? On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doug,Cliff was thinking about this issue a while back.Perhaps a purpose built hard fibreglass hull that conforms to Snoopy's lower hull,with an inflatable pontoon attached, but with no back section. ( an inflatable boatwith the back missing.) Use an air pump to deflate & inflate it. It would probablyrequire a winch up front to help the sub get fully on board. If it was strong enoughyou could trailer the sub on this inflatable base.It would increase the towing speed & make it easy to board in rough conditions.Alan Sent from my iPad On 6/08/2016, at 3:13 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I like that idea (a "pump barge"). Whatever we determine will work, it's gonna have to deal with relatively rough seas. ~ Doug S. ? On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 9:56 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doug,I have seen a number of inflatable pontoon systems for lifting boatsabove the water. They all used pumps to pump out the water.I wonder if there is merit in designing an inflatable pontoon that you couldlower, & drive Snoopy on to, then fill with air & tow.? It wouldsolve the problem of boarding in rough seas, as you could climb in whileit was up on the pontoons. The pontoons would also make it easier toboard without bashing your boat against the sub.You would need a large barge if you are looking at hoisting in to the water.It wasn't the easiest in perfect conditions in to your canal.I think they use a ballasted platform in Hawaii ( similar idea) Scott might confirm?that as he has just been there.Alan Sent from my iPad On 3/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Good point Alan, wave height is an issue on more than one hand with Snoopy (as I'm sure you're aware).? BTW, we're starting to look seriously into building or buying a barge for the Keys. We've got to get Snoopy out to the oceanside more quickly than by towing her. ~ Doug S.? On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doug,sounds like a cunning plan!Be aware that it might work when the water surface is flat,but fail if there is too much of a wave.avI'm with Jon on having a descent surface communication system.Alan From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2016 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location 'Sound' thoughts Jon... :) ~ Doug S. ? On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nothing wrong with Radio comms on surface, in fact you should have a VHF for ocean water anyway.? Depending upon the location of the transducer on the vessel, at the surface you may find you don't have enough water column to communicate effectively.? Test first. Jon On 8/2/2016 3:09 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Dad and I are planning to try a little experiment in regards to the mounting location of Snoopy's transducer array. The idea is to mount the array on a hinged whip behind the hatch. While she's on the surface the transducer will be under the waterline for surfaced communication with surface support (if the boat and sub are out of earshot of one another). When Snoopy submerges, the array's float lifts the mast erect over the sub, becoming the tallest part of the vessel while submerged. Just an idea, but we're keen to try it when we get the chance. One possible drawback is entanglement danger... we've been thinking a lot about that lately. ~ Doug S. ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1297991220.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 47496 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1297991223.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 46977 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 8 19:07:01 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 19:07:01 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inflatable sub support In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1566c68c5ff-27db-c903@webprd-m41.mail.aol.com> Doug, I did a study on just that idea a few years back. My suggestion is to think of rigging your boat poles at a 30 degree angle off center pointing aft and outboard from each corner of your boat transom. For transfer, you attach the sub on a short bow line to the central tow point on the boat, and use a V-bridle from each pole tip to both lift points on the sub from BOTH sides, which would (in theory at least) help to cancel out the sub's urgent desire to dart left and right, and keep it from wallowing quite so bad in the wash. If it get's sloppy, add a small drogue on a fairly long line from the sub's tail, which will make your tow motor work harder, but should stabilize fore and aft in a seaway as well and will also let you tow FASTER. And believe it or not, the faster you go, the steadier everything gets (we launched 8-12 ton subs at a minimum of 4 knots, just as a historical note). The idea here is to at least do our smaller scale stuff while gently underway, with lines and poles and all that pulling away from the sub no matter which way the little bastard rolls. I'd love to see that tried out. NOTE: Don't even consider doing this with poly rope, which will tie itself into knots, or nylon, which will stretch and heat up and defeat the whole purpose. Braided Dacron line is called for here, even though it sinks and is a pain to deal with near props. Floats on the shackle ends of your tow and drogue lines are essential kit for this set up. Give me a yell if you want to rig it up. I'll drive down and give you a hand. My main concern is that the poles will be too stiff under light load and too flexible when the going gets tough. It would be an interesting thing to try, just to see how much abuse the poles will put up with if nothing else. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Aug 8, 2016 4:26 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inflatable sub support That is my biggest concern with the cat/floating gantry idea - the sub and tender will behave so differently in any given wave action. Here's an idea I've been pondering since last spring... it won't help with transport time, but it could potentially make entry/egress safer (ie preventing a cabin flood/sinking situation): The last couple of years down in Florida, I've seen these fiberglass mooring poles being used on boats in the canals. They're like fishing poles, but much stronger... semi-rigid but still quite flexable. The poles are mounted at an angle off your dock. They moor your boat, hold it away from the dock and flex up and down with the tides and waves. Now supposing we had a couple of those babies mounted aft-ways off the Whaler. When we wanted to do a crew swap, a support diver would hook the pole lines to the lifting lugs on the sub. This would hold the sub away from the boat, flex to make the difference between boat and sub and provide extra support/tipping safety while changing crew. ~ Doug S. On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 3:08 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doug, Graham Hawkes had a modified catamaran for transporting one of his subs. I couldn't find an image of it but it was posted on Psubs a few years back. I am not sure whether this was successful or not. I am guessing it wasn't as I haven't seen it again. A problem with it could be that you would have to manoeuvre over the submersible, & then attach cables. In slightly rough seas you would need lateral control of the catamaran to keep it from riding on to the sub. The experience out from Islamorada where 3 of us were trying to hold your boat at arms length from Snoopy to transfer passengers, was a bit of a lesson. I have said it before, but the sub seemed to remain stationary in the water column while the boat bounced up & down around it, & was in danger of landing on it. Alan Sent from my iPad On 9/08/2016, at 5:39 am, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan / James / Dave, all great suggestions, thanks for the ideas! As much as we could all sit here and spec out our dream tender/support boat, I think you guys are wise to suggest the KISS method in one way or another. I probably favor the idea of starting with a two hulled (cat/party barge) design the most, but it will depend on what is available for cheap at the time we go to buy :) ~ Doug On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 11:28 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Doug, I remember the tow out if the snoopy in the keys. It seems to me that bases upon the number of used boats in the area, I'd buy and fiberglass boat for just the bow. Get out the Sawzall cut off what I need, weld up a cradle that could link to hull of snoopy, use Alans ideal of a inner tube, but use it as an expandable cushion between fg hull and snoopy. Your then ready to tow. David Colombo On Aug 8, 2016 12:43 AM, "Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Yeah, I like the simple logistics/mechanics of a rig like you described here Alan. Let's face it, anything would be better than a full-on tow! I'm often big smoke/no fire when it comes to projects like these, but at the same time, we are going to be hurting in the Keys without something to make entry/egress safer and transit to/from dive locations more efficient. ~ Doug S. On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doug, Cliff was thinking about this issue a while back. Perhaps a purpose built hard fibreglass hull that conforms to Snoopy's lower hull, with an inflatable pontoon attached, but with no back section. ( an inflatable boat with the back missing.) Use an air pump to deflate & inflate it. It would probably require a winch up front to help the sub get fully on board. If it was strong enough you could trailer the sub on this inflatable base. It would increase the towing speed & make it easy to board in rough conditions. Alan Sent from my iPad On 6/08/2016, at 3:13 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I like that idea (a "pump barge"). Whatever we determine will work, it's gonna have to deal with relatively rough seas. ~ Doug S. On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 9:56 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doug, I have seen a number of inflatable pontoon systems for lifting boats above the water. They all used pumps to pump out the water. I wonder if there is merit in designing an inflatable pontoon that you could lower, & drive Snoopy on to, then fill with air & tow. It would solve the problem of boarding in rough seas, as you could climb in while it was up on the pontoons. The pontoons would also make it easier to board without bashing your boat against the sub. You would need a large barge if you are looking at hoisting in to the water. It wasn't the easiest in perfect conditions in to your canal. I think they use a ballasted platform in Hawaii ( similar idea) Scott might confirm that as he has just been there. Alan Sent from my iPad On 3/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Good point Alan, wave height is an issue on more than one hand with Snoopy (as I'm sure you're aware). BTW, we're starting to look seriously into building or buying a barge for the Keys. We've got to get Snoopy out to the oceanside more quickly than by towing her. ~ Doug S. On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doug, sounds like a cunning plan! Be aware that it might work when the water surface is flat, but fail if there is too much of a wave.av I'm with Jon on having a descent surface communication system. Alan From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2016 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location 'Sound' thoughts Jon... :) ~ Doug S. On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nothing wrong with Radio comms on surface, in fact you should have a VHF for ocean water anyway. Depending upon the location of the transducer on the vessel, at the surface you may find you don't have enough water column to communicate effectively. Test first. Jon On 8/2/2016 3:09 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Dad and I are planning to try a little experiment in regards to the mounting location of Snoopy's transducer array. The idea is to mount the array on a hinged whip behind the hatch. While she's on the surface the transducer will be under the waterline for surfaced communication with surface support (if the boat and sub are out of earshot of one another). When Snoopy submerges, the array's float lifts the mast erect over the sub, becoming the tallest part of the vessel while submerged. Just an idea, but we're keen to try it when we get the chance. One possible drawback is entanglement danger... we've been thinking a lot about that lately. ~ Doug S. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 8 21:23:27 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 01:23:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inflatable sub support In-Reply-To: References: <006301d1ecdb$6ecff350$4c6fd9f0$@gmail.com> <23acb630-79aa-770f-528c-8e4d3b0b9c45@psubs.org> <775574743.10039337.1470177748953.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <923F861E-653E-4497-A173-C65782A8C901@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <585339514.13355967.1470705807808.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> They look interesting Doug, haven't seen them before.Along with the long whips I saw some short strong homemadeversions.I like Vance's idea. You would really have to do your homeworkfirst & develop two?sturdy tow points tailor made for those?mooring whips. Something suitable for changing out differingsized whips. Not sure how you would get on to the sub without getting wet though. If you pulled the nose of the sub in by ropeyou would have the motor in the way. Perhaps this could be the towingsolution, but the boarding problem might need an additional answer.Have fun.Alan?? From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 8:26 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inflatable sub support That is my biggest concern with the cat/floating gantry idea - the sub and tender will behave so differently in any given wave action. ? Here's an idea I've been pondering since last spring... it won't help with transport time, but it could potentially make entry/egress safer (ie preventing a cabin flood/sinking situation): The last couple of years down in Florida, I've seen these fiberglass mooring poles being used on boats in the canals. They're like fishing poles, but much stronger... semi-rigid but still quite flexable. The poles are mounted at an angle off your dock. They moor your boat, hold it away from the dock and flex up and down with the tides and waves. Now supposing we had a couple of those babies mounted aft-ways off the Whaler. When we wanted to do a crew swap, a support diver would hook the pole lines to the lifting lugs on the sub. This would hold the sub away from the boat, flex to make the difference between boat and sub and provide extra support/tipping safety while changing crew. ~ Doug S. ? ?? On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 3:08 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doug,Graham Hawkes had a modified catamaran for transporting one ofhis subs. I couldn't find an image of it but it was posted on Psubs a fewyears back. I am not sure whether this was successful or not. I amguessing it wasn't as I haven't seen it again.A problem with it could be that you would have to manoeuvre over?the submersible, & then attach cables. In slightly rough seas you wouldneed lateral control of the catamaran to keep it from riding on to the sub.? ?The experience out from Islamorada where 3 of us were trying to holdyour boat at arms length from Snoopy to transfer passengers, was a bitof a lesson. I have said it before, but the sub seemed to remain stationaryin the water column while the boat bounced up & down around it, & wasin danger of landing on it.?Alan? ? Sent from my iPad On 9/08/2016, at 5:39 am, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan / James / Dave, all great suggestions, thanks for the ideas! As much as we could all sit here and spec out our dream tender/support boat, I think you guys are wise to suggest the KISS method in one way or another.? I probably favor the idea of starting with a two hulled (cat/party barge) design the most, but it will depend on what is available for cheap at the time we go to buy :) ~ Doug? On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 11:28 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Doug, I remember the tow out if the snoopy in the keys. It seems to me that bases upon the number of used boats in the area, I'd buy and fiberglass boat for just the bow. Get out the Sawzall cut off what I need, weld up a cradle that could link to hull of snoopy, use Alans ideal of a inner tube, but use it as an expandable cushion between fg hull and snoopy. Your then ready to tow. David ColomboOn Aug 8, 2016 12:43 AM, "Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Yeah, I like the simple logistics/mechanics of a rig like you described here Alan. Let's face it, anything would be better than a full-on tow! I'm often big smoke/no fire when it comes to projects like these, but at the same time, we are going to be hurting in the Keys without something to make entry/egress safer and transit to/from dive locations more efficient. ~ Doug S.? On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doug,Cliff was thinking about this issue a while back.Perhaps a purpose built hard fibreglass hull that conforms to Snoopy's lower hull,with an inflatable pontoon attached, but with no back section. ( an inflatable boatwith the back missing.) Use an air pump to deflate & inflate it. It would probablyrequire a winch up front to help the sub get fully on board. If it was strong enoughyou could trailer the sub on this inflatable base.It would increase the towing speed & make it easy to board in rough conditions.Alan Sent from my iPad On 6/08/2016, at 3:13 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I like that idea (a "pump barge"). Whatever we determine will work, it's gonna have to deal with relatively rough seas. ~ Doug S. ? On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 9:56 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doug,I have seen a number of inflatable pontoon systems for lifting boatsabove the water. They all used pumps to pump out the water.I wonder if there is merit in designing an inflatable pontoon that you couldlower, & drive Snoopy on to, then fill with air & tow.? It wouldsolve the problem of boarding in rough seas, as you could climb in whileit was up on the pontoons. The pontoons would also make it easier toboard without bashing your boat against the sub.You would need a large barge if you are looking at hoisting in to the water.It wasn't the easiest in perfect conditions in to your canal.I think they use a ballasted platform in Hawaii ( similar idea) Scott might confirm?that as he has just been there.Alan Sent from my iPad On 3/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Good point Alan, wave height is an issue on more than one hand with Snoopy (as I'm sure you're aware).? BTW, we're starting to look seriously into building or buying a barge for the Keys. We've got to get Snoopy out to the oceanside more quickly than by towing her. ~ Doug S.? On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doug,sounds like a cunning plan!Be aware that it might work when the water surface is flat,but fail if there is too much of a wave.avI'm with Jon on having a descent surface communication system.Alan From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2016 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location 'Sound' thoughts Jon... :) ~ Doug S. ? On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nothing wrong with Radio comms on surface, in fact you should have a VHF for ocean water anyway.? Depending upon the location of the transducer on the vessel, at the surface you may find you don't have enough water column to communicate effectively.? Test first. Jon On 8/2/2016 3:09 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Dad and I are planning to try a little experiment in regards to the mounting location of Snoopy's transducer array. The idea is to mount the array on a hinged whip behind the hatch. While she's on the surface the transducer will be under the waterline for surfaced communication with surface support (if the boat and sub are out of earshot of one another). When Snoopy submerges, the array's float lifts the mast erect over the sub, becoming the tallest part of the vessel while submerged. Just an idea, but we're keen to try it when we get the chance. One possible drawback is entanglement danger... we've been thinking a lot about that lately. ~ Doug S. ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 8 21:28:44 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 21:28:44 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inflatable sub support In-Reply-To: <585339514.13355967.1470705807808.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1566cea860a-4a46-cf11@webprd-m96.mail.aol.com> Maybe a little drawbridge extension off the dive platform? Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Aug 8, 2016 9:26 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inflatable sub support They look interesting Doug, haven't seen them before. Along with the long whips I saw some short strong homemade versions. I like Vance's idea. You would really have to do your homework first & develop two sturdy tow points tailor made for those mooring whips. Something suitable for changing out differing sized whips. Not sure how you would get on to the sub without getting wet though. If you pulled the nose of the sub in by rope you would have the motor in the way. Perhaps this could be the towing solution, but the boarding problem might need an additional answer. Have fun. Alan From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 8:26 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inflatable sub support That is my biggest concern with the cat/floating gantry idea - the sub and tender will behave so differently in any given wave action. Here's an idea I've been pondering since last spring... it won't help with transport time, but it could potentially make entry/egress safer (ie preventing a cabin flood/sinking situation): The last couple of years down in Florida, I've seen these fiberglass mooring poles being used on boats in the canals. They're like fishing poles, but much stronger... semi-rigid but still quite flexable. The poles are mounted at an angle off your dock. They moor your boat, hold it away from the dock and flex up and down with the tides and waves. Now supposing we had a couple of those babies mounted aft-ways off the Whaler. When we wanted to do a crew swap, a support diver would hook the pole lines to the lifting lugs on the sub. This would hold the sub away from the boat, flex to make the difference between boat and sub and provide extra support/tipping safety while changing crew. ~ Doug S. On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 3:08 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doug, Graham Hawkes had a modified catamaran for transporting one of his subs. I couldn't find an image of it but it was posted on Psubs a few years back. I am not sure whether this was successful or not. I am guessing it wasn't as I haven't seen it again. A problem with it could be that you would have to manoeuvre over the submersible, & then attach cables. In slightly rough seas you would need lateral control of the catamaran to keep it from riding on to the sub. The experience out from Islamorada where 3 of us were trying to hold your boat at arms length from Snoopy to transfer passengers, was a bit of a lesson. I have said it before, but the sub seemed to remain stationary in the water column while the boat bounced up & down around it, & was in danger of landing on it. Alan Sent from my iPad On 9/08/2016, at 5:39 am, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan / James / Dave, all great suggestions, thanks for the ideas! As much as we could all sit here and spec out our dream tender/support boat, I think you guys are wise to suggest the KISS method in one way or another. I probably favor the idea of starting with a two hulled (cat/party barge) design the most, but it will depend on what is available for cheap at the time we go to buy :) ~ Doug On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 11:28 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Doug, I remember the tow out if the snoopy in the keys. It seems to me that bases upon the number of used boats in the area, I'd buy and fiberglass boat for just the bow. Get out the Sawzall cut off what I need, weld up a cradle that could link to hull of snoopy, use Alans ideal of a inner tube, but use it as an expandable cushion between fg hull and snoopy. Your then ready to tow. David Colombo On Aug 8, 2016 12:43 AM, "Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Yeah, I like the simple logistics/mechanics of a rig like you described here Alan. Let's face it, anything would be better than a full-on tow! I'm often big smoke/no fire when it comes to projects like these, but at the same time, we are going to be hurting in the Keys without something to make entry/egress safer and transit to/from dive locations more efficient. ~ Doug S. On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doug, Cliff was thinking about this issue a while back. Perhaps a purpose built hard fibreglass hull that conforms to Snoopy's lower hull, with an inflatable pontoon attached, but with no back section. ( an inflatable boat with the back missing.) Use an air pump to deflate & inflate it. It would probably require a winch up front to help the sub get fully on board. If it was strong enough you could trailer the sub on this inflatable base. It would increase the towing speed & make it easy to board in rough conditions. Alan Sent from my iPad On 6/08/2016, at 3:13 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I like that idea (a "pump barge"). Whatever we determine will work, it's gonna have to deal with relatively rough seas. ~ Doug S. On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 9:56 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doug, I have seen a number of inflatable pontoon systems for lifting boats above the water. They all used pumps to pump out the water. I wonder if there is merit in designing an inflatable pontoon that you could lower, & drive Snoopy on to, then fill with air & tow. It would solve the problem of boarding in rough seas, as you could climb in while it was up on the pontoons. The pontoons would also make it easier to board without bashing your boat against the sub. You would need a large barge if you are looking at hoisting in to the water. It wasn't the easiest in perfect conditions in to your canal. I think they use a ballasted platform in Hawaii ( similar idea) Scott might confirm that as he has just been there. Alan Sent from my iPad On 3/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Good point Alan, wave height is an issue on more than one hand with Snoopy (as I'm sure you're aware). BTW, we're starting to look seriously into building or buying a barge for the Keys. We've got to get Snoopy out to the oceanside more quickly than by towing her. ~ Doug S. On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doug, sounds like a cunning plan! Be aware that it might work when the water surface is flat, but fail if there is too much of a wave.av I'm with Jon on having a descent surface communication system. Alan From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2016 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location 'Sound' thoughts Jon... :) ~ Doug S. On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nothing wrong with Radio comms on surface, in fact you should have a VHF for ocean water anyway. Depending upon the location of the transducer on the vessel, at the surface you may find you don't have enough water column to communicate effectively. Test first. Jon On 8/2/2016 3:09 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Dad and I are planning to try a little experiment in regards to the mounting location of Snoopy's transducer array. The idea is to mount the array on a hinged whip behind the hatch. While she's on the surface the transducer will be under the waterline for surfaced communication with surface support (if the boat and sub are out of earshot of one another). When Snoopy submerges, the array's float lifts the mast erect over the sub, becoming the tallest part of the vessel while submerged. Just an idea, but we're keen to try it when we get the chance. One possible drawback is entanglement danger... we've been thinking a lot about that lately. ~ Doug S. ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 9 13:50:11 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 13:50:11 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inflatable sub support In-Reply-To: <1566cea860a-4a46-cf11@webprd-m96.mail.aol.com> References: <585339514.13355967.1470705807808.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1566cea860a-4a46-cf11@webprd-m96.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: What a plan Vance... I never thought about towing stability, but good thought. Perhaps I'm biting off more than I can chew with this idea, with so many variables involved. For crew swaps, I was picturing a Zodiac go-between so we don't have to worry about bumping/scraping. ~ Doug S. On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 9:28 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Maybe a little drawbridge extension off the dive platform? > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Sent: Mon, Aug 8, 2016 9:26 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inflatable sub support > > They look interesting Doug, haven't seen them before. > Along with the long whips I saw some short strong homemade > versions. > I like Vance's idea. You would really have to do your homework > first & develop two sturdy tow points tailor made for those > mooring whips. Something suitable for changing out differing > sized whips. Not sure how you would get on to the sub without > getting wet though. If you pulled the nose of the sub in by rope > you would have the motor in the way. Perhaps this could be the towing > solution, but the boarding problem might need an additional answer. > Have fun. > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 9, 2016 8:26 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inflatable sub support > > That is my biggest concern with the cat/floating gantry idea - the sub and > tender will behave so differently in any given wave action. > > Here's an idea I've been pondering since last spring... it won't help with > transport time, but it could potentially make entry/egress safer (ie > preventing a cabin flood/sinking situation): The last couple of years down > in Florida, I've seen these fiberglass mooring poles being used on boats in > the canals. They're like fishing poles, but much stronger... semi-rigid but > still quite flexable. The poles are mounted at an angle off your dock. They > moor your boat, hold it away from the dock and flex up and down with the > tides and waves. > > Now supposing we had a couple of those babies mounted aft-ways off the > Whaler. When we wanted to do a crew swap, a support diver would hook the > pole lines to the lifting lugs on the sub. This would hold the sub away > from the boat, flex to make the difference between boat and sub and provide > extra support/tipping safety while changing crew. ~ Doug S. > > On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 3:08 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Doug, > Graham Hawkes had a modified catamaran for transporting one of > his subs. I couldn't find an image of it but it was posted on Psubs a few > years back. I am not sure whether this was successful or not. I am > guessing it wasn't as I haven't seen it again. > A problem with it could be that you would have to manoeuvre over > the submersible, & then attach cables. In slightly rough seas you would > need lateral control of the catamaran to keep it from riding on to the sub. > The experience out from Islamorada where 3 of us were trying to hold > your boat at arms length from Snoopy to transfer passengers, was a bit > of a lesson. I have said it before, but the sub seemed to remain stationary > in the water column while the boat bounced up & down around it, & was > in danger of landing on it. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 9/08/2016, at 5:39 am, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > Alan / James / Dave, all great suggestions, thanks for the ideas! As much > as we could all sit here and spec out our dream tender/support boat, I > think you guys are wise to suggest the KISS method in one way or another. > > I probably favor the idea of starting with a two hulled (cat/party barge) > design the most, but it will depend on what is available for cheap at the > time we go to buy :) ~ Doug > > On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 11:28 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > Hi Doug, I remember the tow out if the snoopy in the keys. It seems to me > that bases upon the number of used boats in the area, I'd buy and > fiberglass boat for just the bow. Get out the Sawzall cut off what I need, > weld up a cradle that could link to hull of snoopy, use Alans ideal of a > inner tube, but use it as an expandable cushion between fg hull and snoopy. > Your then ready to tow. > David Colombo > On Aug 8, 2016 12:43 AM, "Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles" < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > Yeah, I like the simple logistics/mechanics of a rig like you described > here Alan. Let's face it, anything would be better than a full-on tow! I'm > often big smoke/no fire when it comes to projects like these, but at the > same time, we are going to be hurting in the Keys without something to make > entry/egress safer and transit to/from dive locations more efficient. ~ > Doug S. > > On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > Doug, > Cliff was thinking about this issue a while back. > Perhaps a purpose built hard fibreglass hull that conforms to Snoopy's > lower hull, > with an inflatable pontoon attached, but with no back section. ( an > inflatable boat > with the back missing.) Use an air pump to deflate & inflate it. It would > probably > require a winch up front to help the sub get fully on board. If it was > strong enough > you could trailer the sub on this inflatable base. > It would increase the towing speed & make it easy to board in rough > conditions. > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 6/08/2016, at 3:13 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > Alan, I like that idea (a "pump barge"). Whatever we determine will work, > it's gonna have to deal with relatively rough seas. ~ Doug S. > > On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 9:56 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > Doug, > I have seen a number of inflatable pontoon systems for lifting boats > above the water. They all used pumps to pump out the water. > I wonder if there is merit in designing an inflatable pontoon that you > could > lower, & drive Snoopy on to, then fill with air & tow. It would > solve the problem of boarding in rough seas, as you could climb in while > it was up on the pontoons. The pontoons would also make it easier to > board without bashing your boat against the sub. > You would need a large barge if you are looking at hoisting in to the > water. > It wasn't the easiest in perfect conditions in to your canal. > I think they use a ballasted platform in Hawaii ( similar idea) Scott > might confirm > that as he has just been there. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 3/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > Good point Alan, wave height is an issue on more than one hand with Snoopy > (as I'm sure you're aware). > > BTW, we're starting to look seriously into building or buying a barge for > the Keys. We've got to get Snoopy out to the oceanside more quickly than by > towing her. ~ Doug S. > > On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > Doug, > sounds like a cunning plan! > Be aware that it might work when the water surface is flat, > but fail if there is too much of a wave.av > I'm with Jon on having a descent surface communication system. > Alan > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 3, 2016 8:29 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS transducer location > > 'Sound' thoughts Jon... :) ~ Doug S. > > On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > > Nothing wrong with Radio comms on surface, in fact you should have a VHF > for ocean water anyway. Depending upon the location of the transducer on > the vessel, at the surface you may find you don't have enough water column > to communicate effectively. Test first. > > Jon > > > On 8/2/2016 3:09 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Dad and I are planning to try a little experiment in regards to the > mounting location of Snoopy's transducer array. The idea is to mount the > array on a hinged whip behind the hatch. While she's on the surface the > transducer will be under the waterline for surfaced communication with > surface support (if the boat and sub are out of earshot of one another). > When Snoopy submerges, the array's float lifts the mast erect over the sub, > becoming the tallest part of the vessel while submerged. > > Just an idea, but we're keen to try it when we get the chance. One > possible drawback is entanglement danger... we've been thinking a lot about > that lately. ~ Doug S. > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 9 17:12:17 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 21:12:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Message-ID: <4F30962637699C08.b1cba743-2d30-4565-bb08-954b02f5b263@mail.outlook.com> Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net. http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/sub2.html Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 9 17:41:12 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 17:41:12 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: <4F30962637699C08.b1cba743-2d30-4565-bb08-954b02f5b263@mail.outlook.com> References: <4F30962637699C08.b1cba743-2d30-4565-bb08-954b02f5b263@mail.outlook.com> Message-ID: For a while I recall it was listed for sale on PSUBS.org (or was that another tender, I can't remember?). ~ Doug S. On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? > I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net. > > http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/sub2.html > > Get Outlook for Android > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 9 19:25:05 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 19:25:05 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: <4F30962637699C08.b1cba743-2d30-4565-bb08-954b02f5b263@mail.outlook.com> References: <4F30962637699C08.b1cba743-2d30-4565-bb08-954b02f5b263@mail.outlook.com> Message-ID: <156719faf8e-5495-ecbc@webprd-m43.mail.aol.com> I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the Captain. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net. http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/sub2.html Get Outlook for Android _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 9 20:15:00 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: <156719faf8e-5495-ecbc@webprd-m43.mail.aol.com> References: <4F30962637699C08.b1cba743-2d30-4565-bb08-954b02f5b263@mail.outlook.com> <156719faf8e-5495-ecbc@webprd-m43.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S. On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some > of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that > design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and > so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's > was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China > diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard > 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were > cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the > Captain. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > > Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? > I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net. > http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/sub2.html > > Get Outlook for Android > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 9 20:50:06 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 17:50:06 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Message-ID: <20160809175006.79F2681E@m0087792.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 9 21:56:32 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 13:56:32 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: <20160809175006.79F2681E@m0087792.ppops.net> References: <20160809175006.79F2681E@m0087792.ppops.net> Message-ID: You mean like this Brian, http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/technology/subs/pisces/pisces-training.html I was trying to describe this in an earlier post. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 10/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Seems like there ought to be a way to have another submersible platform which cradles the K boat, then submerge to the bottom leaving the "carrier boat" sitting on the bottom until ur ready to go back home, then link back up with the carrier boat and surface. The carrier boat would need to be big enough to travel on the surface and keep the conning tower well above the surface to avoid flooding. Of course many challenges with something like that. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:al > > From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400 > > Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S. > > On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the Captain. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > > Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net. > http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/sub2.html > > Get Outlook for Android > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 9 17:24:57 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 17:24:57 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: <4F30962637699C08.b1cba743-2d30-4565-bb08-954b02f5b263@mail.outlook.com> References: <4F30962637699C08.b1cba743-2d30-4565-bb08-954b02f5b263@mail.outlook.com> Message-ID: I've got the original drawings for George's tender. The Lake Diver variant was only moderately successful. Web made the pontoons too small. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 9, 2016, at 5:12 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net. > > http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/sub2.html > > > Get Outlook for Android > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 9 22:12:25 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2016 19:12:25 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Message-ID: Hey, a sub on a sub!! I like it! ? Keith T Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/9/16 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat You mean like this Brian,http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/technology/subs/pisces/pisces-training.htmlI was trying to describe this in an earlier post.?Alan Sent from my iPad On 10/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Seems like there ought to be a way to have another submersible platform which cradles the K boat, then submerge to the bottom leaving the "carrier boat" sitting on the bottom until ur ready to go back home, then link back up with the carrier boat and surface.?? The carrier boat would need to be big enough to travel on the surface and keep the conning tower well above the surface to avoid flooding.? Of course many challenges with something like that.?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:al From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400 Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S.? On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the Captain. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net. http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/sub2.html Get Outlook for Android _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 9 22:26:09 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 22:26:09 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton update Message-ID: Hi everyone, Here's an update for those who were at the convention discussion of Shackleton's stability. We did a second test yesterday, adding ballast per the calculations to bring the center of gravity below the center of buoyancy when surfaced. After that we also tried Hank's suggestion of drilling holes in the lower part of the MBTs to gain some stability that way too, and that also helped. Both things worked as expected and the sub now has some stability. However, I also wanted to see how it actually felt in the water walking around on the deck, and I wasn't happy with that. I'm evaluating modifications, and my current thought is to replace the MBTs with a "raft" configuration, raising the tanks' CB and considerably increasing the beam. That would have the benefit of massively increasing stability while keeping the high coning tower and its associated freeboard, a key design objective. I'm researching mineral tanks and similar off-the-shelf options. Best, Alec -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 9 23:50:06 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:50:06 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Message-ID: <20160809205006.760DD7F5@m0087798.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 10 00:01:43 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 04:01:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1106568409.13970184.1470801703939.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> This was a concept I was thinking about a while back.Excuse the sketch.The idea is to have a boat with twin outboards, & a consul up front.You raise the motors & pump enough water into the side pontoons to beable to drive the sub in & out. Maybe some assistance with a winchwhen returning would be required. If the unit was designed properlywith a floor that could take the weight of the sub, then you could trailerboth simultaneously. Alan From: k6fee via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Hey, a sub on a sub!! I like it! ? Keith T Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/9/16 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat You mean like this Brian,http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/technology/subs/pisces/pisces-training.htmlI was trying to describe this in an earlier post.?Alan Sent from my iPad On 10/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Seems like there ought to be a way to have another submersible platform which cradles the K boat, then submerge to the bottom leaving the "carrier boat" sitting on the bottom until ur ready to go back home, then link back up with the carrier boat and surface.?? The carrier boat would need to be big enough to travel on the surface and keep the conning tower well above the surface to avoid flooding.? Of course many challenges with something like that.?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:al From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400 Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S.? On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the Captain.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net.http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/sub2.html Get Outlook for Android_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SUB BOAT.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 100246 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 10 01:28:04 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 01:28:04 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Of course I was* not* at the convention, but I too am interested(!), thanks for posting an update Alec. Out of curiosity, when you are standing on one side (or the other) of the deck, does the listing get your feet wet? ~ Doug On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 10:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Here's an update for those who were at the convention discussion of > Shackleton's stability. We did a second test yesterday, adding ballast per > the calculations to bring the center of gravity below the center of > buoyancy when surfaced. After that we also tried Hank's suggestion of > drilling holes in the lower part of the MBTs to gain some stability that > way too, and that also helped. Both things worked as expected and the sub > now has some stability. However, I also wanted to see how it actually felt > in the water walking around on the deck, and I wasn't happy with that. I'm > evaluating modifications, and my current thought is to replace the MBTs > with a "raft" configuration, raising the tanks' CB and considerably > increasing the beam. That would have the benefit of massively increasing > stability while keeping the high coning tower and its associated freeboard, > a key design objective. I'm researching mineral tanks and similar > off-the-shelf options. > > > Best, > > Alec > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 10 06:47:12 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 12:47:12 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: <1106568409.13970184.1470801703939.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1106568409.13970184.1470801703939.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1470826032317.2029947.14027ce4cf632f9a7a785f5c68c4e8d42024a1fd@spica.telekom.de> I have done such a concept for SOVI (Shark Observer vecicle) in South Africa. Was a semi flooding towing RIB behind a Motorboot with over 20 knots towing speed. Will search for a picture. vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Datum: 2016-08-10T06:05:53+0200 Von: "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" This was a concept I was thinking about a while back. Excuse the sketch. The idea is to have a boat with twin outboards, & a consul up front. You raise the motors & pump enough water into the side pontoons to be able to drive the sub in & out. Maybe some assistance with a winch when returning would be required. If the unit was designed properly with a floor that could take the weight of the sub, then you could trailer both simultaneously. Alan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: k6fee via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Hey, a sub on a sub!! I like it! ? Keith T Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/9/16 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat You mean like this Brian, http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/technology/subs/pisces/pisces-training.html I was trying to describe this in an earlier post. Alan Sent from my iPad On 10/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: Seems like there ought to be a way to have another submersible platform which cradles the K boat, then submerge to the bottom leaving the "carrier boat" sitting on the bottom until ur ready to go back home, then link back up with the carrier boat and surface. The carrier boat would need to be big enough to travel on the surface and keep the conning tower well above the surface to avoid flooding. Of course many challenges with something like that. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:al From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400 Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S. On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the Captain. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net. http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/sub2.html Get Outlook for Android _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 10 07:55:08 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 07:55:08 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No, my feet were dry in that scenario. But the deck is pretty high, so if my feet were wet she'd be listing quite seriously. Best, Alec On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:28 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Of course I was* not* at the convention, but I too am interested(!), > thanks for posting an update Alec. Out of curiosity, when you are standing > on one side (or the other) of the deck, does the listing get your feet wet? > ~ Doug > > On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 10:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi everyone, >> >> Here's an update for those who were at the convention discussion of >> Shackleton's stability. We did a second test yesterday, adding ballast per >> the calculations to bring the center of gravity below the center of >> buoyancy when surfaced. After that we also tried Hank's suggestion of >> drilling holes in the lower part of the MBTs to gain some stability that >> way too, and that also helped. Both things worked as expected and the sub >> now has some stability. However, I also wanted to see how it actually felt >> in the water walking around on the deck, and I wasn't happy with that. I'm >> evaluating modifications, and my current thought is to replace the MBTs >> with a "raft" configuration, raising the tanks' CB and considerably >> increasing the beam. That would have the benefit of massively increasing >> stability while keeping the high coning tower and its associated freeboard, >> a key design objective. I'm researching mineral tanks and similar >> off-the-shelf options. >> >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 10 10:45:56 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 10:45:56 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Message-ID: The HURL sinking pontoon barge seems it would be easy enough to build for a psub. Buy a craigslist party barge, replace the deck with grating, install sea-cocks and vents in the pontoons, and then install foam gunwales so that the barge has positive buoyancy when the pontoons are flooded, but floats low enough in the water that a K350 can be driven/dragged onboard. I have a friend with a barge that they flood, drive a 75ft steel hull boat over, then refloat for use as a drydock. My only concern would how well a top-heavy pontoon boat handles in offshore conditions. Not well I'd imagine. On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 12:01 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Maynard's sub boat (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 04:01:43 +0000 (UTC) > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > Message-ID: > <1106568409.13970184.1470801703939.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > This was a concept I was thinking about a while back.Excuse the sketch.The > idea is to have a boat with twin outboards, & a consul up front.You raise > the motors & pump enough water into the side pontoons to beable to drive > the sub in & out. Maybe some assistance with a winchwhen returning would be > required. If the unit was designed properlywith a floor that could take the > weight of the sub, then you could trailerboth simultaneously. Alan > > From: k6fee via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:12 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > > Hey, a sub on a sub!! I like it! ? > Keith T > > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > -------- Original message --------From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Date: 8/9/16 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00) To: > Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > You mean like this Brian,http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/technology/subs/ > pisces/pisces-training.htmlI was trying to describe this in an earlier > post.?Alan > Sent from my iPad > On 10/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Seems like there ought to be a way to have another submersible platform > which cradles the K boat, then submerge to the bottom leaving the "carrier > boat" sitting on the bottom until ur ready to go back home, then link back > up with the carrier boat and surface.?? The carrier boat would need to be > big enough to travel on the surface and keep the conning tower well above > the surface to avoid flooding.? Of course many challenges with something > like that.?Brian? > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:al > > From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400 > > Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S.? > On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some > of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that > design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and > so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's > was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China > diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard > 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were > cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the > Captain.Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > > Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? > I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net. > http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/sub2.html > > Get Outlook for Android_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles > mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/ > mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: 20160810/a4d6ce64/attachment.html> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: SUB BOAT.jpg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 100246 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: 20160810/a4d6ce64/attachment.jpg> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 38, Issue 44 > ***************************************************** > -- -River J. Dolfi 412-997-2526 rdolfi7 at gmail.com rwd5301 at psu.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 10 11:08:55 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 16:08:55 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: <1470826032317.2029947.14027ce4cf632f9a7a785f5c68c4e8d42024a1fd@spica.telekom.de> References: <1106568409.13970184.1470801703939.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1470826032317.2029947.14027ce4cf632f9a7a785f5c68c4e8d42024a1fd@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: Hi carsten, It would be great if you could find a picture. Sounds interesting. Regards James On 10 August 2016 at 11:47, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I have done such a concept for SOVI (Shark Observer vecicle) in South > Africa. > > Was a semi flooding towing RIB behind a Motorboot with over 20 knots > towing speed. > > Will search for a picture. > > > > vbr Carsten > > > > > > > > -----Original-Nachricht----- > > Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > > Datum: 2016-08-10T06:05:53+0200 > > Von: "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" org> > > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > > > > > > This was a concept I was thinking about a while back. > Excuse the sketch. > The idea is to have a boat with twin outboards, & a consul up front. > You raise the motors & pump enough water into the side pontoons to be > able to drive the sub in & out. Maybe some assistance with a winch > when returning would be required. If the unit was designed properly > with a floor that could take the weight of the sub, then you could trailer > both simultaneously. Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* k6fee via Personal_Submersibles > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:12 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > > Hey, a sub on a sub!! I like it! ? > > Keith T > > > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 8/9/16 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > > You mean like this Brian, > http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/technology/subs/pisces/pisces-training.html > I was trying to describe this in an earlier post. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 10/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Seems like there ought to be a way to have another submersible platform > which cradles the K boat, then submerge to the bottom leaving the "carrier > boat" sitting on the bottom until ur ready to go back home, then link back > up with the carrier boat and surface. The carrier boat would need to be > big enough to travel on the surface and keep the conning tower well above > the surface to avoid flooding. Of course many challenges with something > like that. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:al > > From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400 > > Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S. > > On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some > of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that > design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and > so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's > was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China > diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard > 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were > cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the > Captain. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > > Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? > I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net. > http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/sub2.html > Get Outlook for Android > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 10 11:08:11 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 15:08:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <724365306.11874281.1470841691566.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> You can spend as much or more than the cost of a sub to build a launch vehicle. ? With the big wave action, I would not bother building anything unless you can go real big. ?Trying to get a sub lined up to a docking vehicle in waves, forget it. ? If your going to operate a K250 in the ocean with waves then put a big inner tube around the CT as a?permanent part of the sub. ?Instal a 12V compressor to inflate it and a valve system so the pump can vacuum the air out of the tube?entirely. ?Also vacuuming the air will be much faster than letting it free flow. ?The tube can be painted to match the sub, so it looks better. ?Hauling, launching and operating a sub can be a bigger challenge than building one. ?Of coarse if you have an army of help that is different.Hank On Wednesday, August 10, 2016 8:46 AM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: The HURL sinking pontoon barge seems it would be easy enough to build for a psub. Buy a craigslist party barge, replace the deck with grating, install sea-cocks and vents in the pontoons, and then install foam gunwales so that the barge has positive buoyancy when the pontoons are flooded, but floats low enough in the water that a K350 can be driven/dragged onboard. I have a friend with a barge that they flood, drive a 75ft steel hull boat over, then refloat for use as a drydock. My only concern would how well a top-heavy pontoon boat handles in offshore conditions. Not well I'd imagine. On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 12:01 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to ? ? ? ? personal_submersibles at psubs. org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ? ? ? ? http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ? ? ? ? personal_submersibles-request@ psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at ? ? ? ? personal_submersibles-owner@ psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: ? ?1. Re: Maynard's sub boat (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ---------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 04:01:43 +0000 (UTC) From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? ? ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Message-ID: ? ? ? ? <1106568409.13970184. 1470801703939.JavaMail.yahoo@ mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" This was a concept I was thinking about a while back.Excuse the sketch.The idea is to have a boat with twin outboards, & a consul up front.You raise the motors & pump enough water into the side pontoons to beable to drive the sub in & out. Maybe some assistance with a winchwhen returning would be required. If the unit was designed properlywith a floor that could take the weight of the sub, then you could trailerboth simultaneously. Alan ? ? ? From: k6fee via Personal_Submersibles ?To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ?Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:12 PM ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Hey, a sub on a sub!! I like it! ? Keith T Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/9/16 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat You mean like this Brian,http://oceanexplorer. noaa.gov/technology/subs/ pisces/pisces-training.htmlI was trying to describe this in an earlier post.?Alan Sent from my iPad On 10/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Seems like there ought to be a way to have another submersible platform which cradles the K boat, then submerge to the bottom leaving the "carrier boat" sitting on the bottom until ur ready to go back home, then link back up with the carrier boat and surface.?? The carrier boat would need to be big enough to travel on the surface and keep the conning tower well above the surface to avoid flooding.? Of course many challenges with something like that.?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote:al From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400 Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S.? On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the Captain.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net.http://johnmaynard.tripod. com/sub2.html Get Outlook for Android_______________________ ________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________Personal_ Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles@ psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/ mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SUB BOAT.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 100246 bytes Desc: not available URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 38, Issue 44 ****************************** *********************** -- -River J. Dolfi 412-997-2526rdolfi7 at gmail.comrwd5301@psu.edu _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 10 11:18:26 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 15:18:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1113826406.2954729.1470842306207.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,You don't have to go away from what you have, in fact, I would keep it all in place and add to the top of the existing tanks outward to widen the top 12 inches or so on each side. ?You don't have to change mounting of tanks and wrecking you new paint. ??Having said that, I do?realize that?sometimes it is easier to start over. ?Hank ? On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 8:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi everyone, Here's an update for those who were at the convention discussion of Shackleton's stability. We did a second test yesterday, adding ballast per the calculations to bring the center of gravity below the center of buoyancy when surfaced. After that we also tried Hank's suggestion of drilling holes in the lower part of the MBTs to gain some stability that way too, and that also helped. Both things worked as expected and the sub now has some stability. However, I also wanted to see how it actually felt in the water walking around on the deck, and I wasn't happy with that. I'm evaluating modifications, and my current thought is to replace the MBTs with a "raft" configuration, raising the tanks' CB and considerably increasing the beam. That would have the benefit of massively increasing stability while keeping the high coning tower and its associated freeboard, a key design objective. I'm researching mineral tanks and similar off-the-shelf options. Best, Alec _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 10 11:31:18 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 03:31:18 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <30CC9257-719F-4566-9C47-E466D54F402D@yahoo.com> coincidentally, today Scott Reed posted a photo of the LRT 30 ( submersible barge) that they deploy Pisces V from. I asked him about stability because I thought it would become unstable during it's submergence. He said they can deploy from it in surprisingly rough sea. Sent from my iPad > On 11/08/2016, at 2:45 am, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > The HURL sinking pontoon barge seems it would be easy enough to build for a psub. Buy a craigslist party barge, replace the deck with grating, install sea-cocks and vents in the pontoons, and then install foam gunwales so that the barge has positive buoyancy when the pontoons are flooded, but floats low enough in the water that a K350 can be driven/dragged onboard. > > I have a friend with a barge that they flood, drive a 75ft steel hull boat over, then refloat for use as a drydock.er > > My only concern would how well a top-heavy pontoon boat handles in offshore conditions. Not well I'd imagine. > >> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 12:01 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Maynard's sub boat (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 04:01:43 +0000 (UTC) >> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat >> Message-ID: >> <1106568409.13970184.1470801703939.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> This was a concept I was thinking about a while back.Excuse the sketch.The idea is to have a boat with twin outboards, & a consul up front.You raise the motors & pump enough water into the side pontoons to beable to drive the sub in & out. Maybe some assistance with a winchwhen returning would be required. If the unit was designed properlywith a floor that could take the weight of the sub, then you could trailerboth simultaneously. Alan >> >> From: k6fee via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:12 PM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat >> >> Hey, a sub on a sub!! I like it! ? >> Keith T >> >> >> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone >> -------- Original message --------From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/9/16 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat >> You mean like this Brian,http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/technology/subs/pisces/pisces-training.htmlI was trying to describe this in an earlier post.?Alan >> Sent from my iPad >> On 10/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Seems like there ought to be a way to have another submersible platform which cradles the K boat, then submerge to the bottom leaving the "carrier boat" sitting on the bottom until ur ready to go back home, then link back up with the carrier boat and surface.?? The carrier boat would need to be big enough to travel on the surface and keep the conning tower well above the surface to avoid flooding.? Of course many challenges with something like that.?Brian? >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:al >> >> From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat >> Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400 >> >> Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S.? >> On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the Captain.Vance >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles >> To: personal_submersibles >> Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat >> >> Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net.http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/sub2.html >> >> Get Outlook for Android_______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> -------------- next part -------------- >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >> Name: SUB BOAT.jpg >> Type: image/jpeg >> Size: 100246 bytes >> Desc: not available >> URL: >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 38, Issue 44 >> ***************************************************** > > > > -- > -River J. Dolfi > > 412-997-2526 > rdolfi7 at gmail.com > rwd5301 at psu.edu > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 11 08:29:37 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 08:29:37 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inflatable sub support In-Reply-To: <1201035963.13207071.1470696167927.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <006301d1ecdb$6ecff350$4c6fd9f0$@gmail.com> <23acb630-79aa-770f-528c-8e4d3b0b9c45@psubs.org> <775574743.10039337.1470177748953.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <923F861E-653E-4497-A173-C65782A8C901@yahoo.com> <1201035963.13207071.1470696167927.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8d6133fb-0eda-36a3-451e-9e8036f08543@psubs.org> I've seen them before Pete but I can't remember who owned the sub or transport. To my eyes this was an ideal design carrying the sub low for stability and harnessed like an external fuel tank under an jet. Jon On 8/8/2016 6:42 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Found these pix. Maybe someone can I.D. them. > > Pete -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 11 10:29:51 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 14:29:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] water cooled diesel References: <1658429122.13315015.1470925791669.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1658429122.13315015.1470925791669.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,I am looking for a one cylinder water cooled diesel engine that will fit comfortably through a 18 inch dia opening. ?This seems a challenge--I can get air cooled engines all day long but can't find water cooled. ?My only option is to then water cool an air cooled engine. ?Has anyone here tried that or have ideas. ?I was thinking to run copper tubing around the cylinder and head between the fins and also have a copper loop in the oil reservoir with water running through. ?If the cylinder with fins was round I would simply machine the block and make a water jacket but no luck there.Any ideas?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 11 10:45:16 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 07:45:16 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] water cooled diesel Message-ID: <20160811074516.760D5673@m0087798.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 11 10:59:06 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 14:59:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] water cooled diesel In-Reply-To: <20160811074516.760D5673@m0087798.ppops.net> References: <20160811074516.760D5673@m0087798.ppops.net> Message-ID: <2022185706.12565444.1470927546521.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,Thank you, that would work perfect ?but at 10K it is more than my cheap gene would allow. ?;-)?Hank On Thursday, August 11, 2016 8:45 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: There's this one that I showed you before:?http://www.zrd.com/pd/esdgenerators.html? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] water cooled diesel Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 14:29:51 +0000 (UTC) Hi All,I am looking for a one cylinder water cooled diesel engine that will fit comfortably through a 18 inch dia opening. ?This seems a challenge--I can get air cooled engines all day long but can't find water cooled. ?My only option is to then water cool an air cooled engine. ?Has anyone here tried that or have ideas. ?I was thinking to run copper tubing around the cylinder and head between the fins and also have a copper loop in the oil reservoir with water running through. ?If the cylinder with fins was round I would simply machine the block and make a water jacket but no luck there.Any ideas?Hank_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 11 12:59:51 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 12:59:51 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] water cooled diesel In-Reply-To: <2022185706.12565444.1470927546521.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160811074516.760D5673@m0087798.ppops.net> <2022185706.12565444.1470927546521.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, Years ago I actually bought a tiny Chinese diesel just because it was so cheap and I wanted to study it for use in a sub. My conclusion was I wouldn't want to be in a metal can with such a thing no matter what, so I resold it on eBay. It was noisy and smelly in the extreme, I don't recommend it. But it was small, water-cooled, and cheap. http://www.changfanz.com/english/product/201511015184.html Best, Alec On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 10:59 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Brian, > Thank you, that would work perfect but at 10K it is more than my cheap > gene would allow. ;-) > Hank > > > On Thursday, August 11, 2016 8:45 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > There's this one that I showed you before: > > http://www.zrd.com/pd/esdgenerators.html > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] water cooled diesel > Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 14:29:51 +0000 (UTC) > > Hi All, > I am looking for a one cylinder water cooled diesel engine that will fit > comfortably through a 18 inch dia opening. This seems a challenge--I can > get air cooled engines all day long but can't find water cooled. > My only option is to then water cool an air cooled engine. Has anyone > here tried that or have ideas. I was thinking to run copper tubing around > the cylinder and head between the fins and also have a copper loop in the > oil reservoir with water running through. > If the cylinder with fins was round I would simply machine the block and > make a water jacket but no luck there. > Any ideas? > Hank > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 11 13:22:46 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 17:22:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] water cooled diesel In-Reply-To: References: <20160811074516.760D5673@m0087798.ppops.net> <2022185706.12565444.1470927546521.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1785140459.12547370.1470936166434.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,I agree those engines are very noisy, I am shooting for?something like my 10hp Kubota. ?That ?engine is a dream, and very quiet. ?I also plan to put the engine inside the escape pod, so it might help with noise. ?I just want to get the long range an engine offers without ?the hassles of a boat. ?good point though! I was also?thinking?about a propane powered 5 hp outboard. ?They run on those little screw on bottles. ?I could make a motor mount at the back of Gamma and steer with Gamma's original steering stuff. ?When it is dive time, I remove the propane bottle and store the motor in the escape pod. ?The propane bottles can stay with the marker buoy. ?Just an idea.Hank On Thursday, August 11, 2016 11:00 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, Years ago I actually bought a tiny Chinese diesel just because it was so cheap and I wanted to study it for use in a sub. My conclusion was I wouldn't want to be in a metal can with such a thing no matter what, so I resold it on eBay. It was noisy and smelly in the extreme, I don't recommend it. But it was small, water-cooled, and cheap. http://www.changfanz.com/english/product/201511015184.html Best, Alec On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 10:59 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian,Thank you, that would work perfect ?but at 10K it is more than my cheap gene would allow. ?;-)?Hank On Thursday, August 11, 2016 8:45 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: There's this one that I showed you before:?http://www.zrd.com/pd/ esdgenerators.html? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] water cooled diesel Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 14:29:51 +0000 (UTC) Hi All,I am looking for a one cylinder water cooled diesel engine that will fit comfortably through a 18 inch dia opening.? This seems a challenge--I can get air cooled engines all day long but can't find water cooled. ?My only option is to then water cool an air cooled engine.? Has anyone here tried that or have ideas.? I was thinking to run copper tubing around the cylinder and head between the fins and also have a copper loop in the oil reservoir with water running through. ?If the cylinder with fins was round I would simply machine the block and make a water jacket but no luck there.Any ideas?Hank______________________________ _________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs. orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 11 15:39:57 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 21:39:57 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: References: <1106568409.13970184.1470801703939.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1470826032317.2029947.14027ce4cf632f9a7a785f5c68c4e8d42024a1fd@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <1470944397133.2200249.6b2e8eb54fdf1aac3ad109369e57c40dc8121d63@spica.telekom.de> First picture. (testfile if the size work on these Psuns mails) vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Datum: 2016-08-10T17:11:58+0200 Von: "James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Hi carsten, It would be great if you could find a picture. Sounds interesting. Regards James On 10 August 2016 at 11:47, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: I have done such a concept for SOVI (Shark Observer vecicle) in South Africa. Was a semi flooding towing RIB behind a Motorboot with over 20 knots towing speed. Will search for a picture. vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Datum: 2016-08-10T06:05:53+0200 Von: "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > This was a concept I was thinking about a while back. Excuse the sketch. The idea is to have a boat with twin outboards, & a consul up front. You raise the motors & pump enough water into the side pontoons to be able to drive the sub in & out. Maybe some assistance with a winch when returning would be required. If the unit was designed properly with a floor that could take the weight of the sub, then you could trailer both simultaneously. Alan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: k6fee via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Hey, a sub on a sub!! I like it! ? Keith T Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 8/9/16 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat You mean like this Brian, http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/technology/subs/pisces/pisces- training.html I was trying to describe this in an earlier post. Alan Sent from my iPad On 10/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: Seems like there ought to be a way to have another submersible platform which cradles the K boat, then submerge to the bottom leaving the "carrier boat" sitting on the bottom until ur ready to go back home, then link back up with the carrier boat and surface. The carrier boat would need to be big enough to travel on the surface and keep the conning tower well above the surface to avoid flooding. Of course many challenges with something like that. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:al From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400 Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S. On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the Captain. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net. http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/sub2.html Get Outlook for Android _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Testfahrt 126a.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 264724 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 11 16:11:18 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 20:11:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: <1470944397133.2200249.6b2e8eb54fdf1aac3ad109369e57c40dc8121d63@spica.telekom.de> References: <1106568409.13970184.1470801703939.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1470826032317.2029947.14027ce4cf632f9a7a785f5c68c4e8d42024a1fd@spica.telekom.de> <1470944397133.2200249.6b2e8eb54fdf1aac3ad109369e57c40dc8121d63@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <78706599.3670840.1470946278914.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Yes, came through Carsten.That's an interesting?variation of what I've been suggesting.I was looking at?a K250?on a trailer; and they are fairly deep,which would make it hard to design something like this to worksuccessfully. It might start Cliff thinking, his sub would work well with a similardesign.Alan From: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 7:39 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat First picture. (testfile if the size work on these Psuns mails) ?vbr Carsten???-----Original-Nachricht-----Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boatDatum: 2016-08-10T17:11:58+0200Von: "James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ???Hi carsten, It would be great if you could find a picture.? Sounds interesting.?RegardsJames On 10 August 2016 at 11:47, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have done such a concept for SOVI (Shark Observer vecicle) in South Africa. Was a semi flooding towing RIB behind a Motorboot with over 20 knots towing speed. Will search for a picture. ?vbr Carsten???-----Original-Nachricht-----Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boatDatum: 2016-08-10T06:05:53+0200Von: "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ???This was a concept I was thinking about a while back.Excuse the sketch.The idea is to have a boat with twin outboards, & a consul up front.You raise the motors & pump enough water into the side pontoons to beable to drive the sub in & out. Maybe some assistance with a winchwhen returning would be required. If the unit was designed properlywith a floor that could take the weight of the sub, then you could trailerboth simultaneously. Alan From: k6fee via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Hey, a sub on a sub!! I like it! ??Keith T???Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone?-------- Original message --------From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/9/16 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00)To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat?You mean like this Brian,http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/technology/subs/pisces/pisces-training.htmlI was trying to describe this in an earlier post.?Alan Sent from my iPad On 10/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Seems like there ought to be a way to have another submersible platform which cradles the K boat, then submerge to the bottom leaving the "carrier boat" sitting on the bottom until ur ready to go back home, then link back up with the carrier boat and surface.?? The carrier boat would need to be big enough to travel on the surface and keep the conning tower well above the surface to avoid flooding.? Of course many challenges with something like that.?Brian? --- mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:al From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400 Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S.? On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the Captain. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net.http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/sub2.htmlGet Outlook for Android______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 11 18:10:22 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 18:10:22 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: <78706599.3670840.1470946278914.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1106568409.13970184.1470801703939.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1470826032317.2029947.14027ce4cf632f9a7a785f5c68c4e8d42024a1fd@spica.telekom.de> <1470944397133.2200249.6b2e8eb54fdf1aac3ad109369e57c40dc8121d63@spica.telekom.de> <78706599.3670840.1470946278914.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thwarted again by the 250's height! I really like this kind of arrangement for it's simplicity though. And I think as far as keeping it small, this might be the best way to manage launch and recovery in a rough sea state. ~ Doug On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 4:11 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Yes, came through Carsten. > That's an interesting variation of what I've been suggesting. > I was looking at a K250 on a trailer; and they are fairly deep, > which would make it hard to design something like this to work > successfully. > It might start Cliff thinking, his sub would work well with a similar > design. > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2016 7:39 AM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub > boat > > First picture. (testfile if the size work on these Psuns mails) > > vbr Carsten > > > > -----Original-Nachricht----- > Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > Datum: 2016-08-10T17:11:58+0200 > Von: "James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > > > Hi carsten, > > It would be great if you could find a picture. Sounds interesting. > > Regards > James > > On 10 August 2016 at 11:47, MerlinSub at t-online.de via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I have done such a concept for SOVI (Shark Observer vecicle) in South > Africa. > Was a semi flooding towing RIB behind a Motorboot with over 20 knots > towing speed. > Will search for a picture. > > vbr Carsten > > > > -----Original-Nachricht----- > Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > Datum: 2016-08-10T06:05:53+0200 > Von: "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" psubs.org > > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > > > > This was a concept I was thinking about a while back. > Excuse the sketch. > The idea is to have a boat with twin outboards, & a consul up front. > You raise the motors & pump enough water into the side pontoons to be > able to drive the sub in & out. Maybe some assistance with a winch > when returning would be required. If the unit was designed properly > with a floor that could take the weight of the sub, then you could trailer > both simultaneously. Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* k6fee via Personal_Submersibles psubs.org > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:12 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > > Hey, a sub on a sub!! I like it! ? > > Keith T > > > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles psubs.org > > Date: 8/9/16 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > > You mean like this Brian, > http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/technology/subs/pisces/pisces-training.html > I was trying to describe this in an earlier post. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 10/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > Seems like there ought to be a way to have another submersible platform > which cradles the K boat, then submerge to the bottom leaving the "carrier > boat" sitting on the bottom until ur ready to go back home, then link back > up with the carrier boat and surface. The carrier boat would need to be > big enough to travel on the surface and keep the conning tower well above > the surface to avoid flooding. Of course many challenges with something > like that. > > Brian > > > > --- mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote:al > > From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400 > > Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S. > > On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some > of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that > design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and > so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's > was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China > diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard > 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were > cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the > Captain. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > To: personal_submersibles > > Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > > Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? > I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net. > http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/sub2.html > Get Outlook for Android > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 11 19:43:10 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 23:43:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: References: <1106568409.13970184.1470801703939.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1470826032317.2029947.14027ce4cf632f9a7a785f5c68c4e8d42024a1fd@spica.telekom.de> <1470944397133.2200249.6b2e8eb54fdf1aac3ad109369e57c40dc8121d63@spica.telekom.de> <78706599.3670840.1470946278914.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1477377334.12828354.1470958990939.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Doug,Are you thinking about taking the bottom out of a zodiac and driving the sub into it. ?That is way better than a barge in my mind. ?You get the benefit of flotation as well as a big ass bumper. ?I had a crane on a barge and that worked well in the lake but in ocean swells, that barge would beat a sub?to death. ?I used a long sling on the hook so that the sub did not come in contact with steel bouncing around. ?But lakes are very tame in comparison.Hank On Thursday, August 11, 2016 4:10 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thwarted again by the 250's height! I really like this kind of arrangement for it's simplicity though. And I think as far as keeping it small, this might be the best way to manage launch and recovery in a rough sea state. ~ Doug ?? On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 4:11 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, came through Carsten.That's an interesting?variation of what I've been suggesting.I was looking at?a K250?on a trailer; and they are fairly deep,which would make it hard to design something like this to worksuccessfully. It might start Cliff thinking, his sub would work well with a similardesign.Alan From: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 7:39 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat First picture. (testfile if the size work on these Psuns mails) ?vbr Carsten???-----Original-Nachricht-----Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boatDatum: 2016-08-10T17:11:58+0200Von: "James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ???Hi carsten, It would be great if you could find a picture.? Sounds interesting.?RegardsJames On 10 August 2016 at 11:47, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have done such a concept for SOVI (Shark Observer vecicle) in South Africa. Was a semi flooding towing RIB behind a Motorboot with over 20 knots towing speed. Will search for a picture. ?vbr Carsten???-----Original-Nachricht-----Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boatDatum: 2016-08-10T06:05:53+0200Von: "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ???This was a concept I was thinking about a while back.Excuse the sketch.The idea is to have a boat with twin outboards, & a consul up front.You raise the motors & pump enough water into the side pontoons to beable to drive the sub in & out. Maybe some assistance with a winchwhen returning would be required. If the unit was designed properlywith a floor that could take the weight of the sub, then you could trailerboth simultaneously. Alan From: k6fee via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Hey, a sub on a sub!! I like it! ??Keith T???Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone?-------- Original message --------From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/9/16 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00)To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat?You mean like this Brian,http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/ technology/subs/pisces/pisces- training.htmlI was trying to describe this in an earlier post.?Alan Sent from my iPad On 10/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Seems like there ought to be a way to have another submersible platform which cradles the K boat, then submerge to the bottom leaving the "carrier boat" sitting on the bottom until ur ready to go back home, then link back up with the carrier boat and surface.?? The carrier boat would need to be big enough to travel on the surface and keep the conning tower well above the surface to avoid flooding.? Of course many challenges with something like that.?Brian? --- mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org wrote:al From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400 Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S.? On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the Captain. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net.http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/ sub2.htmlGet Outlook for Android______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 11 20:55:23 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 18:55:23 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: <1477377334.12828354.1470958990939.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <968009930.56050120.1470963323901.JavaMail.root@shaw.ca> I was just reading the news article about the terrorist they shot yesterday in Strathroy... It seems they caught him one already and released him on a peace bond - one of the conditions of which was that he had to surrender any firearms and prohibited weapons. ----- Original Message ----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 17:43:10 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat Hi Doug,Are you thinking about taking the bottom out of a zodiac and driving the sub into it. That is way better than a barge in my mind. You get the benefit of flotation as well as a big ass bumper. I had a crane on a barge and that worked well in the lake but in ocean swells, that barge would beat a sub to death. I used a long sling on the hook so that the sub did not come in contact with steel bouncing around. But lakes are very tame in comparison.Hank On Thursday, August 11, 2016 4:10 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thwarted again by the 250's height! I really like this kind of arrangement for it's simplicity though. And I think as far as keeping it small, this might be the best way to manage launch and recovery in a rough sea state. ~ Doug On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 4:11 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, came through Carsten.That's an interesting variation of what I've been suggesting.I was looking at a K250 on a trailer; and they are fairly deep,which would make it hard to design something like this to worksuccessfully. It might start Cliff thinking, his sub would work well with a similardesign.Alan From: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 7:39 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat First picture. (testfile if the size work on these Psuns mails) vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht-----Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boatDatum: 2016-08-10T17:11:58+0200Von: "James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Hi carsten, It would be great if you could find a picture. Sounds interesting. RegardsJames On 10 August 2016 at 11:47, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have done such a concept for SOVI (Shark Observer vecicle) in South Africa. Was a semi flooding towing RIB behind a Motorboot with over 20 knots towing speed. Will search for a picture. vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht-----Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boatDatum: 2016-08-10T06:05:53+0200Von: "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" This was a concept I was thinking about a while back.Excuse the sketch.The idea is to have a boat with twin outboards, & a consul up front.You raise the motors & pump enough water into the side pontoons to beable to drive the sub in & out. Maybe some assistance with a winchwhen returning would be required. If the unit was designed properlywith a floor that could take the weight of the sub, then you could trailerboth simultaneously. Alan From: k6fee via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Hey, a sub on a sub!! I like it! ? Keith T Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/9/16 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00)To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat You mean like this Brian,http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/ technology/subs/pisces/pisces- training.htmlI was trying to describe this in an earlier post. Alan Sent from my iPad On 10/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Seems like there ought to be a way to have another submersible platform which cradles the K boat, then submerge to the bottom leaving the "carrier boat" sitting on the bottom until ur ready to go back home, then link back up with the carrier boat and surface. The carrier boat would need to be big enough to travel on the surface and keep the conning tower well above the surface to avoid flooding. Of course many challenges with something like that. Brian --- mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org wrote:al From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400 Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S. On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the Captain. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net.http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/ sub2.htmlGet Outlook for Android ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 11 20:57:46 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 18:57:46 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: <968009930.56050120.1470963323901.JavaMail.root@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <1447765985.56051212.1470963466974.JavaMail.root@shaw.ca> Sorry wrong email replied to. ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 18:55:23 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat I was just reading the news article about the terrorist they shot yesterday in Strathroy... It seems they caught him one already and released him on a peace bond - one of the conditions of which was that he had to surrender any firearms and prohibited weapons. ----- Original Message ----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 17:43:10 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat Hi Doug,Are you thinking about taking the bottom out of a zodiac and driving the sub into it. That is way better than a barge in my mind. You get the benefit of flotation as well as a big ass bumper. I had a crane on a barge and that worked well in the lake but in ocean swells, that barge would beat a sub to death. I used a long sling on the hook so that the sub did not come in contact with steel bouncing around. But lakes are very tame in comparison.Hank On Thursday, August 11, 2016 4:10 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thwarted again by the 250's height! I really like this kind of arrangement for it's simplicity though. And I think as far as keeping it small, this might be the best way to manage launch and recovery in a rough sea state. ~ Doug On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 4:11 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, came through Carsten.That's an interesting variation of what I've been suggesting.I was looking at a K250 on a trailer; and they are fairly deep,which would make it hard to design something like this to worksuccessfully. It might start Cliff thinking, his sub would work well with a similardesign.Alan From: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 7:39 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat First picture. (testfile if the size work on these Psuns mails) vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht-----Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boatDatum: 2016-08-10T17:11:58+0200Von: "James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Hi carsten, It would be great if you could find a picture. Sounds interesting. RegardsJames On 10 August 2016 at 11:47, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have done such a concept for SOVI (Shark Observer vecicle) in South Africa. Was a semi flooding towing RIB behind a Motorboot with over 20 knots towing speed. Will search for a picture. vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht-----Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boatDatum: 2016-08-10T06:05:53+0200Von: "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" This was a concept I was thinking about a while back.Excuse the sketch.The idea is to have a boat with twin outboards, & a consul up front.You raise the motors & pump enough water into the side pontoons to beable to drive the sub in & out. Maybe some assistance with a winchwhen returning would be required. If the unit was designed properlywith a floor that could take the weight of the sub, then you could trailerboth simultaneously. Alan From: k6fee via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Hey, a sub on a sub!! I like it! ? Keith T Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/9/16 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00)To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat You mean like this Brian,http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/ technology/subs/pisces/pisces- training.htmlI was trying to describe this in an earlier post. Alan Sent from my iPad On 10/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Seems like there ought to be a way to have another submersible platform which cradles the K boat, then submerge to the bottom leaving the "carrier boat" sitting on the bottom until ur ready to go back home, then link back up with the carrier boat and surface. The carrier boat would need to be big enough to travel on the surface and keep the conning tower well above the surface to avoid flooding. Of course many challenges with something like that. Brian --- mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org wrote:al From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400 Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S. On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the Captain. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net.http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/ sub2.htmlGet Outlook for Android ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 11 21:29:10 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 21:29:10 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: <1447765985.56051212.1470963466974.JavaMail.root@shaw.ca> References: <968009930.56050120.1470963323901.JavaMail.root@shaw.ca> <1447765985.56051212.1470963466974.JavaMail.root@shaw.ca> Message-ID: Prohibited weapons aside, yes I like the idea of going the zodiac route for these reasons: cheap, simple and big bumper. Just not sure how well it would work with a tall/tankish design like Snoopy's. Last April we took the Whaler out onto the Atlantic several miles out. That boat is one of the sturdiest boats I've ever set foot on, but at 25 feet, it was getting tossed like a bathtub toy during a temper tantrum (it was a two hands day), and the seas weren't bad that day by any means... 3 foot waves. I'm trying to picture doing anything in the ocean with a support barge and I just can't... unless it were just flat calm. Point for Zodiac design. Maybe two Zodiacs I-beamed together with the sub slung in the middle? ~ Doug S. On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 8:57 PM, TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Sorry wrong email replied to. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 18:55:23 -0600 (MDT) > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub > boat > > > I was just reading the news article about the terrorist they shot > yesterday in Strathroy... It seems they caught him one already and released > him on a peace bond - one of the conditions of which was that he had to > surrender any firearms and prohibited weapons. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 17:43:10 -0600 (MDT) > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub > boat > > Hi Doug, > Are you thinking about taking the bottom out of a zodiac and driving the > sub into it. That is way better than a barge in my mind. You get the > benefit of flotation as well as a big ass bumper. > I had a crane on a barge and that worked well in the lake but in ocean > swells, that barge would beat a sub to death. I used a long sling on the > hook so that the sub did not come in contact with steel bouncing around. > But lakes are very tame in comparison. > Hank > > > On Thursday, August 11, 2016 4:10 PM, Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Thwarted again by the 250's height! I really like this kind of arrangement > for it's simplicity though. And I think as far as keeping it small, this > might be the best way to manage launch and recovery in a rough sea state. ~ > Doug > > On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 4:11 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Yes, came through Carsten. > That's an interesting variation of what I've been suggesting. > I was looking at a K250 on a trailer; and they are fairly deep, > which would make it hard to design something like this to work > successfully. > It might start Cliff thinking, his sub would work well with a similar > design. > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" org > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion org > > *Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2016 7:39 AM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub > boat > > First picture. (testfile if the size work on these Psuns mails) > > vbr Carsten > > > > -----Original-Nachricht----- > Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > Datum: 2016-08-10T17:11:58+0200 > Von: "James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles" org > > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" org > > > > > Hi carsten, > > It would be great if you could find a picture. Sounds interesting. > > Regards > James > > On 10 August 2016 at 11:47, MerlinSub at t-online.de via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > I have done such a concept for SOVI (Shark Observer vecicle) in South > Africa. > Was a semi flooding towing RIB behind a Motorboot with over 20 knots > towing speed. > Will search for a picture. > > vbr Carsten > > > > -----Original-Nachricht----- > Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > Datum: 2016-08-10T06:05:53+0200 > Von: "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" psubs.org > > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" psubs.org > > > > > This was a concept I was thinking about a while back. > Excuse the sketch. > The idea is to have a boat with twin outboards, & a consul up front. > You raise the motors & pump enough water into the side pontoons to be > able to drive the sub in & out. Maybe some assistance with a winch > when returning would be required. If the unit was designed properly > with a floor that could take the weight of the sub, then you could trailer > both simultaneously. Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* k6fee via Personal_Submersibles psubs.org > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion psubs.org > > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:12 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > > Hey, a sub on a sub!! I like it! ? > > Keith T > > > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles psubs.org > > Date: 8/9/16 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion psubs.org > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > > You mean like this Brian, > http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/ technology/subs/pisces/pisces- training.html > > I was trying to describe this in an earlier post. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 10/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles psubs.org > wrote: > > Seems like there ought to be a way to have another submersible platform > which cradles the K boat, then submerge to the bottom leaving the "carrier > boat" sitting on the bottom until ur ready to go back home, then link back > up with the carrier boat and surface. The carrier boat would need to be > big enough to travel on the surface and keep the conning tower well above > the surface to avoid flooding. Of course many challenges with something > like that. > > Brian > > > > --- mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org > wrote:al > > From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles psubs.org > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion psubs.org > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400 > > Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S. > > On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles psubs.org > wrote: > > I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some > of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that > design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and > so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's > was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China > diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard > 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were > cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the > Captain. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles psubs.org > > To: personal_submersibles > > Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > > Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? > I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net. > http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/ sub2.html > > Get Outlook for Android > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ? > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 11 22:39:02 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 02:39:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: References: <968009930.56050120.1470963323901.JavaMail.root@shaw.ca> <1447765985.56051212.1470963466974.JavaMail.root@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <1821281082.12982117.1470969542136.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Doug,I think the zodiac is a great idea, you will have to play with an easy way to attach and?detach. ?You might want to consider a CT enclosure like Emile has. ?That should be easy enough to rig up on Snoopy. ?The way a K250 is built is not ideal for big seas, but you have options. ?As mentioned the Clear CT enclosure, you could even look at a K350 style CT with a regular hatch. ?I would go with a small 18 inch hatch to keep it real light. ?It would be a piece of cake ?to add a new removable ?CT. ?You could have it as an option, depending on dive conditions.?Hank On Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:29 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Prohibited weapons aside, yes I like the idea of going the zodiac route for these reasons: cheap, simple and big bumper. Just not sure how well it would work with a tall/tankish design like Snoopy's.? Last April we took the Whaler out onto the Atlantic several miles out. That boat is one of the sturdiest boats I've ever set foot on, but at 25 feet, it was getting tossed like a bathtub toy during a temper tantrum (it was a two hands day), and the seas weren't bad that day by any means... 3 foot waves. I'm trying to picture doing anything in the ocean with a support barge and I just can't... unless it were just flat calm. Point for Zodiac design. Maybe two Zodiacs I-beamed together with the sub slung in the middle? ~ Doug S. ? ?? On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 8:57 PM, TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Sorry wrong email replied to. ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 18:55:23 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat ?I was just reading the news article about the terrorist they shot yesterday in Strathroy... It seems they caught him one already and released him on a peace bond - one of the conditions of which was that he had to surrender any firearms and prohibited weapons. ----- Original Message ----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 17:43:10 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat Hi Doug,Are you thinking about taking the bottom out of a zodiac and driving the sub into it.? That is way better than a barge in my mind.? You get the benefit of flotation as well as a big ass bumper. ?I had a crane on a barge and that worked well in the lake but in ocean swells, that barge would beat a sub?to death.? I used a long sling on the hook so that the sub did not come in contact with steel bouncing around.? But lakes are very tame in comparison.Hank On Thursday, August 11, 2016 4:10 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thwarted again by the 250's height! I really like this kind of arrangement for it's simplicity though. And I think as far as keeping it small, this might be the best way to manage launch and recovery in a rough sea state. ~ Doug ?? On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 4:11 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, came through Carsten.That's an interesting?variation of what I've been suggesting.I was looking at?a K250?on a trailer; and they are fairly deep,which would make it hard to design something like this to worksuccessfully. It might start Cliff thinking, his sub would work well with a similardesign.Alan From: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 7:39 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat First picture. (testfile if the size work on these Psuns mails) ?vbr Carsten???-----Original-Nachricht-----Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boatDatum: 2016-08-10T17:11:58+0200Von: "James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ???Hi carsten, It would be great if you could find a picture.? Sounds interesting.?RegardsJames On 10 August 2016 at 11:47, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have done such a concept for SOVI (Shark Observer vecicle) in South Africa. Was a semi flooding towing RIB behind a Motorboot with over 20 knots towing speed. Will search for a picture. ?vbr Carsten???-----Original-Nachricht-----Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boatDatum: 2016-08-10T06:05:53+0200Von: "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ???This was a concept I was thinking about a while back.Excuse the sketch.The idea is to have a boat with twin outboards, & a consul up front.You raise the motors & pump enough water into the side pontoons to beable to drive the sub in & out. Maybe some assistance with a winchwhen returning would be required. If the unit was designed properlywith a floor that could take the weight of the sub, then you could trailerboth simultaneously. Alan From: k6fee via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Hey, a sub on a sub!! I like it! ??Keith T???Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone?-------- Original message --------From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/9/16 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00)To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat?You mean like this Brian,http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/ technology/subs/pisces/pisces- training.htmlI was trying to describe this in an earlier post.?Alan Sent from my iPad On 10/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Seems like there ought to be a way to have another submersible platform which cradles the K boat, then submerge to the bottom leaving the "carrier boat" sitting on the bottom until ur ready to go back home, then link back up with the carrier boat and surface.?? The carrier boat would need to be big enough to travel on the surface and keep the conning tower well above the surface to avoid flooding.? Of course many challenges with something like that.?Brian? --- mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org wrote:al From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400 Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S.? On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the Captain. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net.http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/ sub2.htmlGet Outlook for Android ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/ mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 12 01:11:50 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 22:11:50 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: <1821281082.12982117.1470969542136.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <968009930.56050120.1470963323901.JavaMail.root@shaw.ca> <1447765985.56051212.1470963466974.JavaMail.root@shaw.ca> <1821281082.12982117.1470969542136.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002101d1f458$090b4d10$1b21e730$@telus.net> Similar thoughts attached. Apparently the sub on the zodiac based platform require less water depth to launch off the trailer than the sub requires alone off the trailer. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:39 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat Doug, I think the zodiac is a great idea, you will have to play with an easy way to attach and detach. You might want to consider a CT enclosure like Emile has. That should be easy enough to rig up on Snoopy. The way a K250 is built is not ideal for big seas, but you have options. As mentioned the Clear CT enclosure, you could even look at a K350 style CT with a regular hatch. I would go with a small 18 inch hatch to keep it real light. It would be a piece of cake to add a new removable CT. You could have it as an option, depending on dive conditions. Hank On Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:29 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Prohibited weapons aside, yes I like the idea of going the zodiac route for these reasons: cheap, simple and big bumper. Just not sure how well it would work with a tall/tankish design like Snoopy's. Last April we took the Whaler out onto the Atlantic several miles out. That boat is one of the sturdiest boats I've ever set foot on, but at 25 feet, it was getting tossed like a bathtub toy during a temper tantrum (it was a two hands day), and the seas weren't bad that day by any means... 3 foot waves. I'm trying to picture doing anything in the ocean with a support barge and I just can't... unless it were just flat calm. Point for Zodiac design. Maybe two Zodiacs I-beamed together with the sub slung in the middle? ~ Doug S. On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 8:57 PM, TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Sorry wrong email replied to. ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 18:55:23 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat I was just reading the news article about the terrorist they shot yesterday in Strathroy... It seems they caught him one already and released him on a peace bond - one of the conditions of which was that he had to surrender any firearms and prohibited weapons. ----- Original Message ----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 17:43:10 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat Hi Doug, Are you thinking about taking the bottom out of a zodiac and driving the sub into it. That is way better than a barge in my mind. You get the benefit of flotation as well as a big ass bumper. I had a crane on a barge and that worked well in the lake but in ocean swells, that barge would beat a sub to death. I used a long sling on the hook so that the sub did not come in contact with steel bouncing around. But lakes are very tame in comparison. Hank On Thursday, August 11, 2016 4:10 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Thwarted again by the 250's height! I really like this kind of arrangement for it's simplicity though. And I think as far as keeping it small, this might be the best way to manage launch and recovery in a rough sea state. ~ Doug On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 4:11 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Yes, came through Carsten. That's an interesting variation of what I've been suggesting. I was looking at a K250 on a trailer; and they are fairly deep, which would make it hard to design something like this to work successfully. It might start Cliff thinking, his sub would work well with a similar design. Alan _____ From: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 7:39 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat First picture. (testfile if the size work on these Psuns mails) vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Datum: 2016-08-10T17:11:58+0200 Von: "James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles" > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Hi carsten, It would be great if you could find a picture. Sounds interesting. Regards James On 10 August 2016 at 11:47, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I have done such a concept for SOVI (Shark Observer vecicle) in South Africa. Was a semi flooding towing RIB behind a Motorboot with over 20 knots towing speed. Will search for a picture. vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Datum: 2016-08-10T06:05:53+0200 Von: "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > This was a concept I was thinking about a while back. Excuse the sketch. The idea is to have a boat with twin outboards, & a consul up front. You raise the motors & pump enough water into the side pontoons to be able to drive the sub in & out. Maybe some assistance with a winch when returning would be required. If the unit was designed properly with a floor that could take the weight of the sub, then you could trailer both simultaneously. Alan _____ From: k6fee via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Hey, a sub on a sub!! I like it! ? Keith T Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 8/9/16 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat You mean like this Brian, http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/ technology/subs/pisces/pisces- training.html I was trying to describe this in an earlier post. Alan Sent from my iPad On 10/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Seems like there ought to be a way to have another submersible platform which cradles the K boat, then submerge to the bottom leaving the "carrier boat" sitting on the bottom until ur ready to go back home, then link back up with the carrier boat and surface. The carrier boat would need to be big enough to travel on the surface and keep the conning tower well above the surface to avoid flooding. Of course many challenges with something like that. Brian --- mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org wrote:al From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400 Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S. On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the Captain. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net. http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/ sub2.html Get Outlook for Android ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/ mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: RL167182229750.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 37272 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 12 12:28:39 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 18:28:39 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: <78706599.3670840.1470946278914.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1106568409.13970184.1470801703939.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1470826032317.2029947.14027ce4cf632f9a7a785f5c68c4e8d42024a1fd@spica.telekom.de> <1470944397133.2200249.6b2e8eb54fdf1aac3ad109369e57c40dc8121d63@spica.telekom.de> <78706599.3670840.1470946278914.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1471019319608.4286513.be465fba436de75d2d95d312198c27fd70f306d5@spica.telekom.de> Second picture.. -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat Datum: 2016-08-11T22:13:53+0200 Von: "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Yes, came through Carsten. That's an interesting variation of what I've been suggesting. I was looking at a K250 on a trailer; and they are fairly deep, which would make it hard to design something like this to work successfully. It might start Cliff thinking, his sub would work well with a similar design. Alan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 7:39 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat First picture. (testfile if the size work on these Psuns mails) vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Datum: 2016-08-10T17:11:58+0200 Von: "James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Hi carsten, It would be great if you could find a picture. Sounds interesting. Regards James On 10 August 2016 at 11:47, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: I have done such a concept for SOVI (Shark Observer vecicle) in South Africa. Was a semi flooding towing RIB behind a Motorboot with over 20 knots towing speed. Will search for a picture. vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Datum: 2016-08-10T06:05:53+0200 Von: "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" < mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > This was a concept I was thinking about a while back. Excuse the sketch. The idea is to have a boat with twin outboards, & a consul up front. You raise the motors & pump enough water into the side pontoons to be able to drive the sub in & out. Maybe some assistance with a winch when returning would be required. If the unit was designed properly with a floor that could take the weight of the sub, then you could trailer both simultaneously. Alan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: k6fee via Personal_Submersibles < mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Hey, a sub on a sub!! I like it! ? Keith T Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles < mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Date: 8/9/16 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat You mean like this Brian, http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/technology/subs/pisces/pisces-training.html I was trying to describe this in an earlier post. Alan Sent from my iPad On 10/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: Seems like there ought to be a way to have another submersible platform which cradles the K boat, then submerge to the bottom leaving the "carrier boat" sitting on the bottom until ur ready to go back home, then link back up with the carrier boat and surface. The carrier boat would need to be big enough to travel on the surface and keep the conning tower well above the surface to avoid flooding. Of course many challenges with something like that. Brian --- mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:al From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400 Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S. On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the Captain. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles < mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net. http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/sub2.html Get Outlook for Android ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: Testfahrt 159a.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 167179 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 12 12:29:33 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 18:29:33 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: References: <1106568409.13970184.1470801703939.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1470826032317.2029947.14027ce4cf632f9a7a785f5c68c4e8d42024a1fd@spica.telekom.de> <1470944397133.2200249.6b2e8eb54fdf1aac3ad109369e57c40dc8121d63@spica.telekom.de> <78706599.3670840.1470946278914.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1471019373252.2379760.535fc271ec23fc18590972571bef53bc4735ff7a@spica.telekom.de> Third picture -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat Datum: 2016-08-12T00:13:26+0200 Von: "Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Thwarted again by the 250's height! I really like this kind of arrangement for it's simplicity though. And I think as far as keeping it small, this might be the best way to manage launch and recovery in a rough sea state. ~ Doug On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 4:11 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: Yes, came through Carsten. That's an interesting variation of what I've been suggesting. I was looking at a K250 on a trailer; and they are fairly deep, which would make it hard to design something like this to work successfully. It might start Cliff thinking, his sub would work well with a similar design. Alan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 7:39 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat First picture. (testfile if the size work on these Psuns mails) vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Datum: 2016-08-10T17:11:58+0200 Von: "James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Hi carsten, It would be great if you could find a picture. Sounds interesting. Regards James On 10 August 2016 at 11:47, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: I have done such a concept for SOVI (Shark Observer vecicle) in South Africa. Was a semi flooding towing RIB behind a Motorboot with over 20 knots towing speed. Will search for a picture. vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Datum: 2016-08-10T06:05:53+0200 Von: "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" < mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > This was a concept I was thinking about a while back. Excuse the sketch. The idea is to have a boat with twin outboards, & a consul up front. You raise the motors & pump enough water into the side pontoons to be able to drive the sub in & out. Maybe some assistance with a winch when returning would be required. If the unit was designed properly with a floor that could take the weight of the sub, then you could trailer both simultaneously. Alan -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: k6fee via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Hey, a sub on a sub!! I like it! ? Keith T Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 8/9/16 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat You mean like this Brian, http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/technology/subs/pisces/pisces- training.html I was trying to describe this in an earlier post. Alan Sent from my iPad On 10/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: Seems like there ought to be a way to have another submersible platform which cradles the K boat, then submerge to the bottom leaving the "carrier boat" sitting on the bottom until ur ready to go back home, then link back up with the carrier boat and surface. The carrier boat would need to be big enough to travel on the surface and keep the conning tower well above the surface to avoid flooding. Of course many challenges with something like that. Brian --- mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:al From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400 Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S. On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the Captain. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles < mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net. http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/sub2.html Get Outlook for Android ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: Testfahrt 161a.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 227367 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 12 12:31:35 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 18:31:35 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: <1821281082.12982117.1470969542136.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <968009930.56050120.1470963323901.JavaMail.root@shaw.ca> <1447765985.56051212.1470963466974.JavaMail.root@shaw.ca> <1821281082.12982117.1470969542136.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1471019495699.2368399.f8984d202cb56fe7500dd010d83d62afdb3cbbda@spica.telekom.de> fourth picture.. -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat Datum: 2016-08-12T04:48:49+0200 Von: "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Doug, I think the zodiac is a great idea, you will have to play with an easy way to attach and detach. You might want to consider a CT enclosure like Emile has. That should be easy enough to rig up on Snoopy. The way a K250 is built is not ideal for big seas, but you have options. As mentioned the Clear CT enclosure, you could even look at a K350 style CT with a regular hatch. I would go with a small 18 inch hatch to keep it real light. It would be a piece of cake to add a new removable CT. You could have it as an option, depending on dive conditions. Hank On Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:29 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Prohibited weapons aside, yes I like the idea of going the zodiac route for these reasons: cheap, simple and big bumper. Just not sure how well it would work with a tall/tankish design like Snoopy's. Last April we took the Whaler out onto the Atlantic several miles out. That boat is one of the sturdiest boats I've ever set foot on, but at 25 feet, it was getting tossed like a bathtub toy during a temper tantrum (it was a two hands day), and the seas weren't bad that day by any means... 3 foot waves. I'm trying to picture doing anything in the ocean with a support barge and I just can't... unless it were just flat calm. Point for Zodiac design. Maybe two Zodiacs I-beamed together with the sub slung in the middle? ~ Doug S. On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 8:57 PM, TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: Sorry wrong email replied to. ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < personal_submersibles at psubs. org > Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 18:55:23 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat I was just reading the news article about the terrorist they shot yesterday in Strathroy... It seems they caught him one already and released him on a peace bond - one of the conditions of which was that he had to surrender any firearms and prohibited weapons. ----- Original Message ----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < personal_submersibles at psubs. org > Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 17:43:10 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat Hi Doug, Are you thinking about taking the bottom out of a zodiac and driving the sub into it. That is way better than a barge in my mind. You get the benefit of flotation as well as a big ass bumper. I had a crane on a barge and that worked well in the lake but in ocean swells, that barge would beat a sub to death. I used a long sling on the hook so that the sub did not come in contact with steel bouncing around. But lakes are very tame in comparison. Hank On Thursday, August 11, 2016 4:10 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Thwarted again by the 250's height! I really like this kind of arrangement for it's simplicity though. And I think as far as keeping it small, this might be the best way to manage launch and recovery in a rough sea state. ~ Doug On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 4:11 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs. org > wrote: Yes, came through Carsten. That's an interesting variation of what I've been suggesting. I was looking at a K250 on a trailer; and they are fairly deep, which would make it hard to design something like this to work successfully. It might start Cliff thinking, his sub would work well with a similar design. Alan -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < personal_submersibles at psubs. org > Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 7:39 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat First picture. (testfile if the size work on these Psuns mails) vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Datum: 2016-08-10T17:11:58+0200 Von: "James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs. org > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < personal_submersibles at psubs. org > Hi carsten, It would be great if you could find a picture. Sounds interesting. Regards James On 10 August 2016 at 11:47, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs. org > wrote: I have done such a concept for SOVI (Shark Observer vecicle) in South Africa. Was a semi flooding towing RIB behind a Motorboot with over 20 knots towing speed. Will search for a picture. vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Datum: 2016-08-10T06:05:53+0200 Von: "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" < mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org > This was a concept I was thinking about a while back. Excuse the sketch. The idea is to have a boat with twin outboards, & a consul up front. You raise the motors & pump enough water into the side pontoons to be able to drive the sub in & out. Maybe some assistance with a winch when returning would be required. If the unit was designed properly with a floor that could take the weight of the sub, then you could trailer both simultaneously. Alan ------------------------------------------------------------------ From: k6fee via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Hey, a sub on a sub!! I like it! ? Keith T Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 8/9/16 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat You mean like this Brian, http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/ technology/subs/pisces/pisces- training.html I was trying to describe this in an earlier post. Alan Sent from my iPad On 10/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org > wrote: Seems like there ought to be a way to have another submersible platform which cradles the K boat, then submerge to the bottom leaving the "carrier boat" sitting on the bottom until ur ready to go back home, then link back up with the carrier boat and surface. The carrier boat would need to be big enough to travel on the surface and keep the conning tower well above the surface to avoid flooding. Of course many challenges with something like that. Brian --- mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org wrote:al From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400 Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S. On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org > wrote: I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the Captain. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles < mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net. http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/ sub2.html Get Outlook for Android ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/ mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Testfahrt 165a.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 195997 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 12 12:33:32 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 18:33:32 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: <002101d1f458$090b4d10$1b21e730$@telus.net> References: <968009930.56050120.1470963323901.JavaMail.root@shaw.ca> <1447765985.56051212.1470963466974.JavaMail.root@shaw.ca> <1821281082.12982117.1470969542136.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002101d1f458$090b4d10$1b21e730$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1471019612140.2240338.9cc62b5b2e1892032514819e2ec90f94f987c77c@spica.telekom.de> Last picture. I have also a towing video of 17MB were they run the sub with over 20 knots on the zodiac. vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat Datum: 2016-08-12T07:15:20+0200 Von: "T Novak via Personal_Submersibles" An: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Similar thoughts attached. Apparently the sub on the zodiac based platform require less water depth to launch off the trailer than the sub requires alone off the trailer. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:39 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat Doug, I think the zodiac is a great idea, you will have to play with an easy way to attach and detach. You might want to consider a CT enclosure like Emile has. That should be easy enough to rig up on Snoopy. The way a K250 is built is not ideal for big seas, but you have options. As mentioned the Clear CT enclosure, you could even look at a K350 style CT with a regular hatch. I would go with a small 18 inch hatch to keep it real light. It would be a piece of cake to add a new removable CT. You could have it as an option, depending on dive conditions. Hank On Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:29 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Prohibited weapons aside, yes I like the idea of going the zodiac route for these reasons: cheap, simple and big bumper. Just not sure how well it would work with a tall/tankish design like Snoopy's. Last April we took the Whaler out onto the Atlantic several miles out. That boat is one of the sturdiest boats I've ever set foot on, but at 25 feet, it was getting tossed like a bathtub toy during a temper tantrum (it was a two hands day), and the seas weren't bad that day by any means... 3 foot waves. I'm trying to picture doing anything in the ocean with a support barge and I just can't... unless it were just flat calm. Point for Zodiac design. Maybe two Zodiacs I-beamed together with the sub slung in the middle? ~ Doug S. On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 8:57 PM, TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: Sorry wrong email replied to. ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < personal_submersibles at psubs. org > Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 18:55:23 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat I was just reading the news article about the terrorist they shot yesterday in Strathroy... It seems they caught him one already and released him on a peace bond - one of the conditions of which was that he had to surrender any firearms and prohibited weapons. ----- Original Message ----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < personal_submersibles at psubs. org > Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 17:43:10 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat Hi Doug, Are you thinking about taking the bottom out of a zodiac and driving the sub into it. That is way better than a barge in my mind. You get the benefit of flotation as well as a big ass bumper. I had a crane on a barge and that worked well in the lake but in ocean swells, that barge would beat a sub to death. I used a long sling on the hook so that the sub did not come in contact with steel bouncing around. But lakes are very tame in comparison. Hank On Thursday, August 11, 2016 4:10 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Thwarted again by the 250's height! I really like this kind of arrangement for it's simplicity though. And I think as far as keeping it small, this might be the best way to manage launch and recovery in a rough sea state. ~ Doug On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 4:11 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs. org > wrote: Yes, came through Carsten. That's an interesting variation of what I've been suggesting. I was looking at a K250 on a trailer; and they are fairly deep, which would make it hard to design something like this to work successfully. It might start Cliff thinking, his sub would work well with a similar design. Alan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < personal_submersibles at psubs. org > Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 7:39 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat First picture. (testfile if the size work on these Psuns mails) vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Datum: 2016-08-10T17:11:58+0200 Von: "James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs. org > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < personal_submersibles at psubs. org > Hi carsten, It would be great if you could find a picture. Sounds interesting. Regards James On 10 August 2016 at 11:47, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs. org > wrote: I have done such a concept for SOVI (Shark Observer vecicle) in South Africa. Was a semi flooding towing RIB behind a Motorboot with over 20 knots towing speed. Will search for a picture. vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Datum: 2016-08-10T06:05:53+0200 Von: "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" < mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org > This was a concept I was thinking about a while back. Excuse the sketch. The idea is to have a boat with twin outboards, & a consul up front. You raise the motors & pump enough water into the side pontoons to be able to drive the sub in & out. Maybe some assistance with a winch when returning would be required. If the unit was designed properly with a floor that could take the weight of the sub, then you could trailer both simultaneously. Alan --------------------------------------------------------------------- From: k6fee via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Hey, a sub on a sub!! I like it! ? Keith T Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 8/9/16 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat You mean like this Brian, http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/ technology/subs/pisces/pisces- training.html I was trying to describe this in an earlier post. Alan Sent from my iPad On 10/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org > wrote: Seems like there ought to be a way to have another submersible platform which cradles the K boat, then submerge to the bottom leaving the "carrier boat" sitting on the bottom until ur ready to go back home, then link back up with the carrier boat and surface. The carrier boat would need to be big enough to travel on the surface and keep the conning tower well above the surface to avoid flooding. Of course many challenges with something like that. Brian --- mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org wrote:al From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400 Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S. On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org > wrote: I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the Captain. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles < mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net. http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/ sub2.html Get Outlook for Android ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/ mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Testfahrt 201a.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 218308 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 12 16:09:32 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 13:09:32 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] recon mission Message-ID: <20160812130932.CCB7E84D@m0086238.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 12 18:55:09 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 22:55:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: <1471019612140.2240338.9cc62b5b2e1892032514819e2ec90f94f987c77c@spica.telekom.de> References: <968009930.56050120.1470963323901.JavaMail.root@shaw.ca> <1447765985.56051212.1470963466974.JavaMail.root@shaw.ca> <1821281082.12982117.1470969542136.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002101d1f458$090b4d10$1b21e730$@telus.net> <1471019612140.2240338.9cc62b5b2e1892032514819e2ec90f94f987c77c@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <282636418.9018656.1471042509333.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thank's Carsten,maybe a variation on that with separate rear pontoons that canbe inflated for boat ramp launching & deflated for on water dispatchwould be good. That worked for the wet sub but the whole inflatablewould have to sink to lift up a K250.Alan From: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2016 4:33 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat Last picture. I have also a towing video of 17MB were they run the sub with over 20 knots on the zodiac. vbr Carsten ???-----Original-Nachricht-----Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boatDatum: 2016-08-12T07:15:20+0200Von: "T Novak via Personal_Submersibles" An: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" ???Similar thoughts attached.? Apparently the sub on the zodiac based platform require less water depth to launch off the trailer than the sub requires alone off the trailer. Tim?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:39 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat?Doug,I think the zodiac is a great idea, you will have to play with an easy way to attach and?detach. ?You might want to consider a CT enclosure like Emile has. ?That should be easy enough to rig up on Snoopy. ?The way a K250 is built is not ideal for big seas, but you have options. ?As mentioned the Clear CT enclosure, you could even look at a K350 style CT with a regular hatch. ?I would go with a small 18 inch hatch to keep it real light. ?It would be a piece of cake ?to add a new removable ?CT. ?You could have it as an option, depending on dive conditions.?Hank?On Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:29 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote:?Prohibited weapons aside, yes I like the idea of going the zodiac route for these reasons: cheap, simple and big bumper. Just not sure how well it would work with a tall/tankish design like Snoopy's.??Last April we took the Whaler out onto the Atlantic several miles out. That boat is one of the sturdiest boats I've ever set foot on, but at 25 feet, it was getting tossed like a bathtub toy during a temper tantrum (it was a two hands day), and the seas weren't bad that day by any means... 3 foot waves. I'm trying to picture doing anything in the ocean with a support barge and I just can't... unless it were just flat calm. Point for Zodiac design. Maybe two Zodiacs I-beamed together with the sub slung in the middle? ~ Doug S. ? ???On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 8:57 PM, TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Sorry wrong email replied to. ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 18:55:23 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat ?I was just reading the news article about the terrorist they shot yesterday in Strathroy... It seems they caught him one already and released him on a peace bond - one of the conditions of which was that he had to surrender any firearms and prohibited weapons. ----- Original Message ----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 17:43:10 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boatHi Doug,Are you thinking about taking the bottom out of a zodiac and driving the sub into it.? That is way better than a barge in my mind.? You get the benefit of flotation as well as a big ass bumper. ?I had a crane on a barge and that worked well in the lake but in ocean swells, that barge would beat a sub?to death.? I used a long sling on the hook so that the sub did not come in contact with steel bouncing around.? But lakes are very tame in comparison.Hank?On Thursday, August 11, 2016 4:10 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thwarted again by the 250's height! I really like this kind of arrangement for it's simplicity though. And I think as far as keeping it small, this might be the best way to manage launch and recovery in a rough sea state. ~ Doug ???On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 4:11 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, came through Carsten.That's an interesting?variation of what I've been suggesting.I was looking at?a K250?on a trailer; and they are fairly deep,which would make it hard to design something like this to worksuccessfully. It might start Cliff thinking, his sub would work well with a similardesign.Alan?From: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 7:39 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat?First picture. (testfile if the size work on these Psuns mails)?vbr Carsten???-----Original-Nachricht-----Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boatDatum: 2016-08-10T17:11:58+0200Von: "James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ???Hi carsten, It would be great if you could find a picture.? Sounds interesting.?RegardsJames?On 10 August 2016 at 11:47, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have done such a concept for SOVI (Shark Observer vecicle) in South Africa. Was a semi flooding towing RIB behind a Motorboot with over 20 knots towing speed. Will search for a picture. ?vbr Carsten???-----Original-Nachricht-----Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boatDatum: 2016-08-10T06:05:53+0200Von: "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ???This was a concept I was thinking about a while back.Excuse the sketch.The idea is to have a boat with twin outboards, & a consul up front.You raise the motors & pump enough water into the side pontoons to beable to drive the sub in & out. Maybe some assistance with a winchwhen returning would be required. If the unit was designed properlywith a floor that could take the weight of the sub, then you could trailerboth simultaneously. Alan?From: k6fee via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat?Hey, a sub on a sub!! I like it! ??Keith T???Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone?-------- Original message --------From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/9/16 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00)To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat?You mean like this Brian,http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/technology/subs/pisces/pisces-training.htmlI was trying to describe this in an earlier post.?Alan Sent from my iPad On 10/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Seems like there ought to be a way to have another submersible platform which cradles the K boat, then submerge to the bottom leaving the "carrier boat" sitting on the bottom until ur ready to go back home, then link back up with the carrier boat and surface.?? The carrier boat would need to be big enough to travel on the surface and keep the conning tower well above the surface to avoid flooding.? Of course many challenges with something like that.?Brian? --- mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:al From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S.??On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the Captain. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boatDid Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net.http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/sub2.htmlGet Outlook for Android ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles?? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 13 03:42:48 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 08:42:48 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: <282636418.9018656.1471042509333.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <968009930.56050120.1470963323901.JavaMail.root@shaw.ca> <1447765985.56051212.1470963466974.JavaMail.root@shaw.ca> <1821281082.12982117.1470969542136.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002101d1f458$090b4d10$1b21e730$@telus.net> <1471019612140.2240338.9cc62b5b2e1892032514819e2ec90f94f987c77c@spica.telekom.de> <282636418.9018656.1471042509333.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Carsten. Interesting idea. I am diving today and there is one of those inflatable pontoon things on a mooring at the harbour. I'll try and get a picture if I remember. Regards, James On Friday, 12 August 2016, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thank's Carsten, > maybe a variation on that with separate rear pontoons that can > be inflated for boat ramp launching & deflated for on water dispatch > would be good. That worked for the wet sub but the whole inflatable > would have to sink to lift up a K250. > Alan > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "MerlinSub at t-online.de > via > Personal_Submersibles" > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > > *Sent:* Saturday, August 13, 2016 4:33 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's > sub boat > > Last picture. I have also a towing video of 17MB were they run the sub > with over 20 knots on the zodiac. vbr Carsten > > > > -----Original-Nachricht----- > Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub > boat > Datum: 2016-08-12T07:15:20+0200 > Von: "T Novak via Personal_Submersibles" > > An: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > > > > > Similar thoughts attached. Apparently the sub on the zodiac based > platform require less water depth to launch off the trailer than the sub > requires alone off the trailer. > Tim > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org > ] > *On Behalf Of *hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:39 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's > sub boat > > Doug, > I think the zodiac is a great idea, you will have to play with an easy way > to attach and detach. You might want to consider a CT enclosure like Emile > has. That should be easy enough to rig up on Snoopy. The way a K250 is > built is not ideal for big seas, but you have options. As mentioned the > Clear CT enclosure, you could even look at a K350 style CT with a regular > hatch. I would go with a small 18 inch hatch to keep it real light. It > would be a piece of cake to add a new removable CT. You could have it as > an option, depending on dive conditions. > Hank > > On Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:29 PM, Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Prohibited weapons aside, yes I like the idea of going the zodiac route > for these reasons: cheap, simple and big bumper. Just not sure how well it > would work with a tall/tankish design like Snoopy's. > > Last April we took the Whaler out onto the Atlantic several miles out. > That boat is one of the sturdiest boats I've ever set foot on, but at 25 > feet, it was getting tossed like a bathtub toy during a temper tantrum (it > was a two hands day), and the seas weren't bad that day by any means... 3 > foot waves. I'm trying to picture doing anything in the ocean with a > support barge and I just can't... unless it were just flat calm. Point for > Zodiac design. Maybe two Zodiacs I-beamed together with the sub slung in > the middle? ~ Doug S. > > On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 8:57 PM, TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > > Sorry wrong email replied to. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles psubs.org > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > > Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 18:55:23 -0600 (MDT) > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub > boat > > > I was just reading the news article about the terrorist they shot > yesterday in Strathroy... It seems they caught him one already and released > him on a peace bond - one of the conditions of which was that he had to > surrender any firearms and prohibited weapons. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles psubs.org > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > > Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 17:43:10 -0600 (MDT) > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub > boat > Hi Doug, > Are you thinking about taking the bottom out of a zodiac and driving the > sub into it. That is way better than a barge in my mind. You get the > benefit of flotation as well as a big ass bumper. > I had a crane on a barge and that worked well in the lake but in ocean > swells, that barge would beat a sub to death. I used a long sling on the > hook so that the sub did not come in contact with steel bouncing around. > But lakes are very tame in comparison. > Hank > > On Thursday, August 11, 2016 4:10 PM, Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Thwarted again by the 250's height! I really like this kind of arrangement > for it's simplicity though. And I think as far as keeping it small, this > might be the best way to manage launch and recovery in a rough sea state. ~ > Doug > > On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 4:11 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > Yes, came through Carsten. > That's an interesting variation of what I've been suggesting. > I was looking at a K250 on a trailer; and they are fairly deep, > which would make it hard to design something like this to work > successfully. > It might start Cliff thinking, his sub would work well with a similar > design. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "MerlinSub at t-online.de > via > Personal_Submersibles" > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > > *Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2016 7:39 AM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub > boat > > First picture. (testfile if the size work on these Psuns mails) > > vbr Carsten > > > > -----Original-Nachricht----- > Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > Datum: 2016-08-10T17:11:58+0200 > Von: "James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles" < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > > > > > Hi carsten, > > It would be great if you could find a picture. Sounds interesting. > > Regards > James > > On 10 August 2016 at 11:47, MerlinSub at t-online.de > via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > I have done such a concept for SOVI (Shark Observer vecicle) in South > Africa. > Was a semi flooding towing RIB behind a Motorboot with over 20 knots > towing speed. > Will search for a picture. > > vbr Carsten > > > > -----Original-Nachricht----- > Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > Datum: 2016-08-10T06:05:53+0200 > Von: "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" psubs.org > > > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > > > > > This was a concept I was thinking about a while back. > Excuse the sketch. > The idea is to have a boat with twin outboards, & a consul up front. > You raise the motors & pump enough water into the side pontoons to be > able to drive the sub in & out. Maybe some assistance with a winch > when returning would be required. If the unit was designed properly > with a floor that could take the weight of the sub, then you could trailer > both simultaneously. Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* k6fee via Personal_Submersibles psubs.org > > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:12 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > > Hey, a sub on a sub!! I like it! ? > > Keith T > > > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles psubs.org > > > Date: 8/9/16 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > > You mean like this Brian, > http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/technology/subs/pisces/pisces-training.html > I was trying to describe this in an earlier post. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 10/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > Seems like there ought to be a way to have another submersible platform > which cradles the K boat, then submerge to the bottom leaving the "carrier > boat" sitting on the bottom until ur ready to go back home, then link back > up with the carrier boat and surface. The carrier boat would need to be > big enough to travel on the surface and keep the conning tower well above > the surface to avoid flooding. Of course many challenges with something > like that. > > Brian > > > > --- mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote:al > > From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400 > Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S. > > On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some > of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that > design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and > so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's > was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China > diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard > 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were > cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the > Captain. > Vance > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles < > mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > > To: personal_submersibles > > Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? > I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net. > http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/sub2.html > Get Outlook for Android > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 13 06:21:49 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 10:21:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: References: <968009930.56050120.1470963323901.JavaMail.root@shaw.ca> <1447765985.56051212.1470963466974.JavaMail.root@shaw.ca> <1821281082.12982117.1470969542136.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002101d1f458$090b4d10$1b21e730$@telus.net> <1471019612140.2240338.9cc62b5b2e1892032514819e2ec90f94f987c77c@spica.telekom.de> <282636418.9018656.1471042509333.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1270774096.13433437.1471083709937.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi James,Look forward to a report and videoGood Luck!Hank On Saturday, August 13, 2016 1:43 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Carsten.? Interesting idea. ?I am diving today and there is one of those inflatable pontoon things on a mooring at the harbour.? I'll try and get a picture if I remember.Regards,James On Friday, 12 August 2016, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thank's Carsten,maybe a variation on that with separate rear pontoons that canbe inflated for boat ramp launching & deflated for on water dispatchwould be good. That worked for the wet sub but the whole inflatablewould have to sink to lift up a K250.Alan From: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2016 4:33 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat Last picture. I have also a towing video of 17MB were they run the sub with over 20 knots on the zodiac. vbr Carsten ???-----Original-Nachricht-----Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boatDatum: 2016-08-12T07:15:20+0200Von: "T Novak via Personal_Submersibles" An: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" ???Similar thoughts attached.? Apparently the sub on the zodiac based platform require less water depth to launch off the trailer than the sub requires alone off the trailer. Tim?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:39 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat?Doug,I think the zodiac is a great idea, you will have to play with an easy way to attach and?detach.? You might want to consider a CT enclosure like Emile has.? That should be easy enough to rig up on Snoopy.? The way a K250 is built is not ideal for big seas, but you have options.? As mentioned the Clear CT enclosure, you could even look at a K350 style CT with a regular hatch.? I would go with a small 18 inch hatch to keep it real light.? It would be a piece of cake ?to add a new removable ?CT.? You could have it as an option, depending on dive conditions.?Hank?On Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:29 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote:?Prohibited weapons aside, yes I like the idea of going the zodiac route for these reasons: cheap, simple and big bumper. Just not sure how well it would work with a tall/tankish design like Snoopy's.??Last April we took the Whaler out onto the Atlantic several miles out. That boat is one of the sturdiest boats I've ever set foot on, but at 25 feet, it was getting tossed like a bathtub toy during a temper tantrum (it was a two hands day), and the seas weren't bad that day by any means... 3 foot waves. I'm trying to picture doing anything in the ocean with a support barge and I just can't... unless it were just flat calm. Point for Zodiac design. Maybe two Zodiacs I-beamed together with the sub slung in the middle? ~ Doug S. ? ???On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 8:57 PM, TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Sorry wrong email replied to. ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 18:55:23 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat ?I was just reading the news article about the terrorist they shot yesterday in Strathroy... It seems they caught him one already and released him on a peace bond - one of the conditions of which was that he had to surrender any firearms and prohibited weapons. ----- Original Message ----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 17:43:10 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boatHi Doug,Are you thinking about taking the bottom out of a zodiac and driving the sub into it.? That is way better than a barge in my mind.? You get the benefit of flotation as well as a big ass bumper. ?I had a crane on a barge and that worked well in the lake but in ocean swells, that barge would beat a sub?to death.? I used a long sling on the hook so that the sub did not come in contact with steel bouncing around.? But lakes are very tame in comparison.Hank?On Thursday, August 11, 2016 4:10 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thwarted again by the 250's height! I really like this kind of arrangement for it's simplicity though. And I think as far as keeping it small, this might be the best way to manage launch and recovery in a rough sea state. ~ Doug ???On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 4:11 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, came through Carsten.That's an interesting?variation of what I've been suggesting.I was looking at?a K250?on a trailer; and they are fairly deep,which would make it hard to design something like this to worksuccessfully. It might start Cliff thinking, his sub would work well with a similardesign.Alan?From: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 7:39 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat?First picture. (testfile if the size work on these Psuns mails)?vbr Carsten???-----Original-Nachricht-----Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boatDatum: 2016-08-10T17:11:58+0200Von: "James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ???Hi carsten, It would be great if you could find a picture.? Sounds interesting.?RegardsJames?On 10 August 2016 at 11:47, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have done such a concept for SOVI (Shark Observer vecicle) in South Africa. Was a semi flooding towing RIB behind a Motorboot with over 20 knots towing speed. Will search for a picture. ?vbr Carsten???-----Original-Nachricht-----Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boatDatum: 2016-08-10T06:05:53+0200Von: "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ???This was a concept I was thinking about a while back.Excuse the sketch.The idea is to have a boat with twin outboards, & a consul up front.You raise the motors & pump enough water into the side pontoons to beable to drive the sub in & out. Maybe some assistance with a winchwhen returning would be required. If the unit was designed properlywith a floor that could take the weight of the sub, then you could trailerboth simultaneously. Alan?From: k6fee via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat?Hey, a sub on a sub!! I like it! ??Keith T???Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone?-------- Original message --------From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/9/16 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00)To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat?You mean like this Brian,http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/ technology/subs/pisces/pisces- training.htmlI was trying to describe this in an earlier post.?Alan Sent from my iPad On 10/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Seems like there ought to be a way to have another submersible platform which cradles the K boat, then submerge to the bottom leaving the "carrier boat" sitting on the bottom until ur ready to go back home, then link back up with the carrier boat and surface.?? The carrier boat would need to be big enough to travel on the surface and keep the conning tower well above the surface to avoid flooding.? Of course many challenges with something like that.?Brian? --- mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org wrote:al From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S.??On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the Captain. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boatDid Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net.http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/ sub2.htmlGet Outlook for Android ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/ mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ?______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ?______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ?______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ??______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles?? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 13 07:13:46 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 11:13:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] recon mission In-Reply-To: <20160812130932.CCB7E84D@m0086238.ppops.net> References: <20160812130932.CCB7E84D@m0086238.ppops.net> Message-ID: <425066562.15766849.1471086826102.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Have a safe trip Brian,look forward to any videos.Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: PSubs Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2016 8:09 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] recon mission I'm headed out to Catalina and possibly Santa Barbara Island with the sailboat for a couple of weeks.?? Going to do some reconnaissance for places to dive a submarine, hope to get some good?underwater video.? Might try to catch?some fish as well !!?Brian?? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 13 16:23:41 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 20:23:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance References: <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,I just did a two person life support test and the CO2 level sits around 4,000ppm ?and the O2 flow is at .5 lpm ? Is that CO2 level high? ? When I am in the sub alone it sits around 2,500ppmI am getting Gamma all geared up for a big dive with my mother as the passenger, that means a ladder, comfy seat, hot coffee, cookies. ?She is very excited!Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 13 21:39:12 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 21:39:12 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, you're lucky that your mom is so excited. Mine is scared $h!tl3ss. ~ Douglas S. On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 4:23 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, > I just did a two person life support test and the CO2 level sits around > 4,000ppm and the O2 flow is at .5 lpm Is that CO2 level high? When I > am in the sub alone it sits around 2,500ppm > I am getting Gamma all geared up for a big dive with my mother as the > passenger, that means a ladder, comfy seat, hot coffee, cookies. She is > very excited! > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 13 21:41:28 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 21:41:28 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: <1270774096.13433437.1471083709937.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <968009930.56050120.1470963323901.JavaMail.root@shaw.ca> <1447765985.56051212.1470963466974.JavaMail.root@shaw.ca> <1821281082.12982117.1470969542136.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002101d1f458$090b4d10$1b21e730$@telus.net> <1471019612140.2240338.9cc62b5b2e1892032514819e2ec90f94f987c77c@spica.telekom.de> <282636418.9018656.1471042509333.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1270774096.13433437.1471083709937.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the input / photos Tim and Carsten. No doubt that speed is improved when the sub's hull is out-of-water. ~ Douglas S. On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 6:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi James, > Look forward to a report and video > Good Luck! > Hank > > > On Saturday, August 13, 2016 1:43 AM, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Thanks Carsten. Interesting idea. > I am diving today and there is one of those inflatable pontoon things on a > mooring at the harbour. I'll try and get a picture if I remember. > Regards, > James > > On Friday, 12 August 2016, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thank's Carsten, > maybe a variation on that with separate rear pontoons that can > be inflated for boat ramp launching & deflated for on water dispatch > would be good. That worked for the wet sub but the whole inflatable > would have to sink to lift up a K250. > Alan > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > *Sent:* Saturday, August 13, 2016 4:33 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's > sub boat > > Last picture. I have also a towing video of 17MB were they run the sub > with over 20 knots on the zodiac. vbr Carsten > > > > -----Original-Nachricht----- > Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub > boat > Datum: 2016-08-12T07:15:20+0200 > Von: "T Novak via Personal_Submersibles" > > An: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" org> > > > > Similar thoughts attached. Apparently the sub on the zodiac based > platform require less water depth to launch off the trailer than the sub > requires alone off the trailer. > Tim > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:39 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's > sub boat > > Doug, > I think the zodiac is a great idea, you will have to play with an easy way > to attach and detach. You might want to consider a CT enclosure like Emile > has. That should be easy enough to rig up on Snoopy. The way a K250 is > built is not ideal for big seas, but you have options. As mentioned the > Clear CT enclosure, you could even look at a K350 style CT with a regular > hatch. I would go with a small 18 inch hatch to keep it real light. It > would be a piece of cake to add a new removable CT. You could have it as > an option, depending on dive conditions. > Hank > > On Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:29 PM, Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Prohibited weapons aside, yes I like the idea of going the zodiac route > for these reasons: cheap, simple and big bumper. Just not sure how well it > would work with a tall/tankish design like Snoopy's. > > Last April we took the Whaler out onto the Atlantic several miles out. > That boat is one of the sturdiest boats I've ever set foot on, but at 25 > feet, it was getting tossed like a bathtub toy during a temper tantrum (it > was a two hands day), and the seas weren't bad that day by any means... 3 > foot waves. I'm trying to picture doing anything in the ocean with a > support barge and I just can't... unless it were just flat calm. Point for > Zodiac design. Maybe two Zodiacs I-beamed together with the sub slung in > the middle? ~ Doug S. > > On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 8:57 PM, TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > > Sorry wrong email replied to. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion psubs.org> > Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 18:55:23 -0600 (MDT) > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub > boat > > > I was just reading the news article about the terrorist they shot > yesterday in Strathroy... It seems they caught him one already and released > him on a peace bond - one of the conditions of which was that he had to > surrender any firearms and prohibited weapons. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion psubs.org> > Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 17:43:10 -0600 (MDT) > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub > boat > Hi Doug, > Are you thinking about taking the bottom out of a zodiac and driving the > sub into it. That is way better than a barge in my mind. You get the > benefit of flotation as well as a big ass bumper. > I had a crane on a barge and that worked well in the lake but in ocean > swells, that barge would beat a sub to death. I used a long sling on the > hook so that the sub did not come in contact with steel bouncing around. > But lakes are very tame in comparison. > Hank > > On Thursday, August 11, 2016 4:10 PM, Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thwarted again by the 250's height! I really like this kind of arrangement > for it's simplicity though. And I think as far as keeping it small, this > might be the best way to manage launch and recovery in a rough sea state. ~ > Doug > > On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 4:11 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles psubs.org> wrote: > > Yes, came through Carsten. > That's an interesting variation of what I've been suggesting. > I was looking at a K250 on a trailer; and they are fairly deep, > which would make it hard to design something like this to work > successfully. > It might start Cliff thinking, his sub would work well with a similar > design. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2016 7:39 AM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub > boat > > First picture. (testfile if the size work on these Psuns mails) > > vbr Carsten > > > > -----Original-Nachricht----- > Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > Datum: 2016-08-10T17:11:58+0200 > Von: "James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles" psubs.org> > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" psubs.org> > > > > Hi carsten, > > It would be great if you could find a picture. Sounds interesting. > > Regards > James > > On 10 August 2016 at 11:47, MerlinSub at t-online.de via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I have done such a concept for SOVI (Shark Observer vecicle) in South > Africa. > Was a semi flooding towing RIB behind a Motorboot with over 20 knots > towing speed. > Will search for a picture. > > vbr Carsten > > > > -----Original-Nachricht----- > Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > Datum: 2016-08-10T06:05:53+0200 > Von: "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" psubs.org> > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" psubs.org> > > > > This was a concept I was thinking about a while back. > Excuse the sketch. > The idea is to have a boat with twin outboards, & a consul up front. > You raise the motors & pump enough water into the side pontoons to be > able to drive the sub in & out. Maybe some assistance with a winch > when returning would be required. If the unit was designed properly > with a floor that could take the weight of the sub, then you could trailer > both simultaneously. Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* k6fee via Personal_Submersibles psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:12 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > > Hey, a sub on a sub!! I like it! ? > > Keith T > > > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles psubs.org> > Date: 8/9/16 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > > You mean like this Brian, > http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/ technology/subs/pisces/pisces- training.html > > I was trying to describe this in an earlier post. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 10/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles psubs.org> wrote: > > Seems like there ought to be a way to have another submersible platform > which cradles the K boat, then submerge to the bottom leaving the "carrier > boat" sitting on the bottom until ur ready to go back home, then link back > up with the carrier boat and surface. The carrier boat would need to be > big enough to travel on the surface and keep the conning tower well above > the surface to avoid flooding. Of course many challenges with something > like that. > > Brian > > > > --- mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org wrote:al > > From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400 > Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S. > > On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles psubs.org> wrote: > > I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have some > of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on that > design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity and > so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. George's > was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with China > diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of junkyard > 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And were > cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for the > Captain. > Vance > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles psubs.org> > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender Nellie? > I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net. > http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/ sub2.html > > Get Outlook for Android > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/ > mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ? > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 13 22:30:51 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 21:30:51 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Your scrubber meets ABS rules which requires the CO2 concentration to stay below 5000 ppm (1/2%) . From my own experience, I found that the type of fan and the flow orientation makes a big difference in how low the scrubber can pull the CO2 concentration down to. Specifically, squirrel cage blowers work better than axial fans and radial flow works better than axial flow through the Sodasorb HP. I am proud of your mom. Cliff On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 3:23 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, > I just did a two person life support test and the CO2 level sits around > 4,000ppm and the O2 flow is at .5 lpm Is that CO2 level high? When I > am in the sub alone it sits around 2,500ppm > I am getting Gamma all geared up for a big dive with my mother as the > passenger, that means a ladder, comfy seat, hot coffee, cookies. She is > very excited! > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 13 22:39:25 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 21:39:25 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: References: <968009930.56050120.1470963323901.JavaMail.root@shaw.ca> <1447765985.56051212.1470963466974.JavaMail.root@shaw.ca> <1821281082.12982117.1470969542136.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002101d1f458$090b4d10$1b21e730$@telus.net> <1471019612140.2240338.9cc62b5b2e1892032514819e2ec90f94f987c77c@spica.telekom.de> <282636418.9018656.1471042509333.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1270774096.13433437.1471083709937.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Carsten, I too appreciated the recent pictures you posted of inflatables. I had been thinking along these lines for my boat. I like the idea of an inflatable bra for my boat that is ship shape to prevent my bow from generating a bow wave. It would be interesting to know how much power you would need to pull such an arrangement into a planing mode. Thanks for posting. Cliff On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 8:41 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks for the input / photos Tim and Carsten. No doubt that speed is > improved when the sub's hull is out-of-water. ~ Douglas S. > > On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 6:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi James, >> Look forward to a report and video >> Good Luck! >> Hank >> >> >> On Saturday, August 13, 2016 1:43 AM, James Frankland via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Thanks Carsten. Interesting idea. >> I am diving today and there is one of those inflatable pontoon things on >> a mooring at the harbour. I'll try and get a picture if I remember. >> Regards, >> James >> >> On Friday, 12 August 2016, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Thank's Carsten, >> maybe a variation on that with separate rear pontoons that can >> be inflated for boat ramp launching & deflated for on water dispatch >> would be good. That worked for the wet sub but the whole inflatable >> would have to sink to lift up a K250. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" > org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > org> >> *Sent:* Saturday, August 13, 2016 4:33 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's >> sub boat >> >> Last picture. I have also a towing video of 17MB were they run the sub >> with over 20 knots on the zodiac. vbr Carsten >> >> >> >> -----Original-Nachricht----- >> Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's >> sub boat >> Datum: 2016-08-12T07:15:20+0200 >> Von: "T Novak via Personal_Submersibles" > org> >> An: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" > org> >> >> >> >> Similar thoughts attached. Apparently the sub on the zodiac based >> platform require less water depth to launch off the trailer than the sub >> requires alone off the trailer. >> Tim >> >> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- >> bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> *Sent:* Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:39 PM >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > org> >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's >> sub boat >> >> Doug, >> I think the zodiac is a great idea, you will have to play with an easy >> way to attach and detach. You might want to consider a CT enclosure like >> Emile has. That should be easy enough to rig up on Snoopy. The way a K250 >> is built is not ideal for big seas, but you have options. As mentioned the >> Clear CT enclosure, you could even look at a K350 style CT with a regular >> hatch. I would go with a small 18 inch hatch to keep it real light. It >> would be a piece of cake to add a new removable CT. You could have it as >> an option, depending on dive conditions. >> Hank >> >> On Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:29 PM, Douglas Suhr via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Prohibited weapons aside, yes I like the idea of going the zodiac route >> for these reasons: cheap, simple and big bumper. Just not sure how well it >> would work with a tall/tankish design like Snoopy's. >> >> Last April we took the Whaler out onto the Atlantic several miles out. >> That boat is one of the sturdiest boats I've ever set foot on, but at 25 >> feet, it was getting tossed like a bathtub toy during a temper tantrum (it >> was a two hands day), and the seas weren't bad that day by any means... 3 >> foot waves. I'm trying to picture doing anything in the ocean with a >> support barge and I just can't... unless it were just flat calm. Point for >> Zodiac design. Maybe two Zodiacs I-beamed together with the sub slung in >> the middle? ~ Doug S. >> >> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 8:57 PM, TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles > org> wrote: >> >> >> Sorry wrong email replied to. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles > psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > psubs.org> >> Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 18:55:23 -0600 (MDT) >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's >> sub boat >> >> >> I was just reading the news article about the terrorist they shot >> yesterday in Strathroy... It seems they caught him one already and released >> him on a peace bond - one of the conditions of which was that he had to >> surrender any firearms and prohibited weapons. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > psubs.org> >> Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 17:43:10 -0600 (MDT) >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's >> sub boat >> Hi Doug, >> Are you thinking about taking the bottom out of a zodiac and driving the >> sub into it. That is way better than a barge in my mind. You get the >> benefit of flotation as well as a big ass bumper. >> I had a crane on a barge and that worked well in the lake but in ocean >> swells, that barge would beat a sub to death. I used a long sling on the >> hook so that the sub did not come in contact with steel bouncing around. >> But lakes are very tame in comparison. >> Hank >> >> On Thursday, August 11, 2016 4:10 PM, Douglas Suhr via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Thwarted again by the 250's height! I really like this kind of >> arrangement for it's simplicity though. And I think as far as keeping it >> small, this might be the best way to manage launch and recovery in a rough >> sea state. ~ Doug >> >> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 4:11 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Yes, came through Carsten. >> That's an interesting variation of what I've been suggesting. >> I was looking at a K250 on a trailer; and they are fairly deep, >> which would make it hard to design something like this to work >> successfully. >> It might start Cliff thinking, his sub would work well with a similar >> design. >> Alan >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" > psubs.org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2016 7:39 AM >> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub >> boat >> >> First picture. (testfile if the size work on these Psuns mails) >> >> vbr Carsten >> >> >> >> -----Original-Nachricht----- >> Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat >> Datum: 2016-08-10T17:11:58+0200 >> Von: "James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles" > psubs.org> >> An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > psubs.org> >> >> >> >> Hi carsten, >> >> It would be great if you could find a picture. Sounds interesting. >> >> Regards >> James >> >> On 10 August 2016 at 11:47, MerlinSub at t-online.de via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> I have done such a concept for SOVI (Shark Observer vecicle) in South >> Africa. >> Was a semi flooding towing RIB behind a Motorboot with over 20 knots >> towing speed. >> Will search for a picture. >> >> vbr Carsten >> >> >> >> -----Original-Nachricht----- >> Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat >> Datum: 2016-08-10T06:05:53+0200 >> Von: "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" > psubs.org> >> An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > psubs.org> >> >> >> >> This was a concept I was thinking about a while back. >> Excuse the sketch. >> The idea is to have a boat with twin outboards, & a consul up front. >> You raise the motors & pump enough water into the side pontoons to be >> able to drive the sub in & out. Maybe some assistance with a winch >> when returning would be required. If the unit was designed properly >> with a floor that could take the weight of the sub, then you could trailer >> both simultaneously. Alan >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* k6fee via Personal_Submersibles > psubs.org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:12 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat >> >> Hey, a sub on a sub!! I like it! ? >> >> Keith T >> >> >> >> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > psubs.org> >> Date: 8/9/16 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00) >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat >> >> You mean like this Brian, >> http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/ technology/subs/pisces/pisces- >> training.html >> >> I was trying to describe this in an earlier post. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 10/08/2016, at 12:50 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Seems like there ought to be a way to have another submersible platform >> which cradles the K boat, then submerge to the bottom leaving the "carrier >> boat" sitting on the bottom until ur ready to go back home, then link back >> up with the carrier boat and surface. The carrier boat would need to be >> big enough to travel on the surface and keep the conning tower well above >> the surface to avoid flooding. Of course many challenges with something >> like that. >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- mailto:personal_submersibles@ psubs.org wrote:al >> >> From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat >> Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:15:00 -0400 >> Thanks for the history Vance, did not know. ~ Doug S. >> >> On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:25 PM, via Personal_Submersibles > psubs.org> wrote: >> >> I sent a response via phone and haven't seen it. To repeat: I do have >> some of George's original drawings on his tender. Web's was a takeoff on >> that design and not terribly successful due to poor load carrying capacity >> and so on. It worked, but was pretty restricted in what it could do. >> George's was better, hands down. 44' long as I recall. It started life with >> China diesels which were achingly slow, and ended up with a couple of >> junkyard 250 cid Chevy in-line 6 truck engines that worked very well. And >> were cheap, which was an important consideration for ANY consideration for >> the Captain. >> Vance >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles > psubs.org> >> To: personal_submersibles >> Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 5:13 pm >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat >> Did Maynard ever produce/release plans for his sub carrier, Tender >> Nellie? I never saw it in person, but pictures lives on the net. >> http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/ sub2.html >> >> Get Outlook for Android >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/ >> mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> mailto:Personal_Submersibles@ psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ? >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 14 03:05:54 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 09:05:54 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1471158354314.2478023.74efb4abf5f1cee0b0ed0e6d793235b2e774d5e0@spica.telekom.de> H Hank we use a O2 flow of 0,25 Liter per minute per person. So 0,5 Liter per minute is correct 4000 ppm is to high on a long term as standard. And give you to less reserve if the scrubber need a change or stops.. The max. work place conzentration here in Germany is 5000 ppm. During our test in the diverchamber of Euronaut Emile and I start the test with 800 ppm and after 40 minutes we reach stable 400 ppm . By the way today we use second hand absorber material from scuba cycle divers - Is still good for some hours - and for free. On Euronaut the exchange is a question of a minute. vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Datum: 2016-08-13T22:30:26+0200 Von: "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Hi All, I just did a two person life support test and the CO2 level sits around 4,000ppm and the O2 flow is at .5 lpm Is that CO2 level high? When I am in the sub alone it sits around 2,500ppm I am getting Gamma all geared up for a big dive with my mother as the passenger, that means a ladder, comfy seat, hot coffee, cookies. She is very excited! Hank ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: co2-Me?werte-12mai2013.xls Type: application/vnd.ms-excel Size: 15360 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 14 03:15:28 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 09:15:28 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1471158928894.2412669.6c29b596e84d3253bd2f225044a94b55e2cfdcda@spica.telekom.de> CO2 Konzentration 300 ppm (0,03%) Au?enluft Land - fresh air country side 500-700 ppm (0,05%) Au?enluft Stadt - fresh air in town 1000 ppm (0,1%) Behaglichkeitsgrenze - all fine 1500 ppm (0,15%) Empfohlener Richtwert f?r Innenr?ume - normal inside 4000 ppm (0,40%) Schlafzimmer schlecht gel?ftet - sleeping room, windows close 5000 ppm (0,50%) Maximale Arbeitsplatzkonzentration (MAK) - max work space by law 7000 ppm (0,70%) Uboot Euronaut, 3 Pers.mehre Stunden , offen Luke. Kino schlecht gel?ftet - Sub Euronaut with 3 person without scrubber after 3 hours, cinema 15000 ppm (1,5%) Zunahme Atemzeitvolumen um 40% - quicker and harder breathing 40000 ppm (4,0% ) Ausatemluft - exhaust from the lungs 50000 ppm (5,0%) Kopfschmerzen, Schwindel , headegs, turn around feeling 80000-100000 ppm Atemnot, Tod nach 30-60 Minuten, Verl?schen einer Kerze, out of breathing, dead after 30-60 minutes 200000 ppm Pl?tzliche Bewusstlosigkeit, Tod nach 5-10 Minuten, Spontan offline, dead after 5-10 minutes This table is in the flip chart folders in Euronaut on watertight sealed paper. WE have simillar flip charts for other items. -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Datum: 2016-08-13T22:30:26+0200 Von: "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Hi All, I just did a two person life support test and the CO2 level sits around 4,000ppm and the O2 flow is at .5 lpm Is that CO2 level high? When I am in the sub alone it sits around 2,500ppm I am getting Gamma all geared up for a big dive with my mother as the passenger, that means a ladder, comfy seat, hot coffee, cookies. She is very excited! Hank ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CO2_Konzentration.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 245708 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 14 04:52:41 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 08:52:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <1471158928894.2412669.6c29b596e84d3253bd2f225044a94b55e2cfdcda@spica.telekom.de> References: <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1471158928894.2412669.6c29b596e84d3253bd2f225044a94b55e2cfdcda@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <1642821353.14654988.1471164761584.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thank you All,I am using absorbent for medical purposes from?eBay. ?I am using it up, but I am told to use Soda-Sorb HP.Hank On Sunday, August 14, 2016 1:16 AM, "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: CO2 Konzentration??????? 300 ppm (0,03%)???????????? Au?enluft Land???????????????? - fresh air country side?500-700 ppm (0,05%)??????????? Au?enluft Stadt???????????????? - fresh air in town????? 1000 ppm (0,1%) ????????????? Behaglichkeitsgrenze?????? - all fine ????? 1500 ppm? (0,15%)??????????? Empfohlener Richtwert f?r Innenr?ume? - normal inside????? 4000 ppm? (0,40%)??????????? Schlafzimmer schlecht gel?ftet? - sleeping room, windows close????? 5000 ppm? (0,50%) ????????? ?Maximale Arbeitsplatzkonzentration (MAK)? - max work space by law ????? 7000 ppm (0,70%)???????????? Uboot Euronaut, 3 Pers.mehre Stunden , offen Luke.?????????????????????????????????????????????? Kino schlecht gel?ftet? - Sub Euronaut with 3 person without scrubber after 3 hours, cinema??? 15000 ppm? (1,5%) ???????????? Zunahme Atemzeitvolumen um 40%?? - quicker and harder breathing??? 40000 ppm? (4,0% ) ??????????? Ausatemluft - exhaust from the lungs??? 50000 ppm? (5,0%) ???????????? Kopfschmerzen, Schwindel , headegs, turn around feeling??? 80000-100000 ppm???????????? Atemnot, Tod nach 30-60 Minuten, Verl?schen einer Kerze, out of breathing, dead after 30-60 minutes??? 200000 ??????? ????ppm ??????????? Pl?tzliche Bewusstlosigkeit, Tod nach 5-10 Minuten, Spontan offline, dead after 5-10 minutes?This table is in the flip chart folders in Euronaut on watertight sealed paper.WE have simillar flip charts for other items.?????-----Original-Nachricht-----Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performanceDatum: 2016-08-13T22:30:26+0200Von: "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ???Hi All,I just did a two person life support test and the CO2 level sits around 4,000ppm ?and the O2 flow is at .5 lpm ? Is that CO2 level high? ? When I am in the sub alone it sits around 2,500ppmI am getting Gamma all geared up for a big dive with my mother as the passenger, that means a ladder, comfy seat, hot coffee, cookies. ?She is very excited!Hank? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 14 05:00:04 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 09:00:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: References: <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1581801394.1481463.1471165204508.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Doug,Yes it is pretty neat my mom is so excited and brave to go for a ride. ?I find that people are either excited to go for a ride or they say "you will never get me in that thing" ? But the people that are not able to bring themselves to go for a ride still think it is very cool. ;-)Hank On Saturday, August 13, 2016 7:39 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, you're lucky that your mom is so excited. Mine is scared $h!tl3ss. ~ Douglas S.? On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 4:23 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I just did a two person life support test and the CO2 level sits around 4,000ppm ?and the O2 flow is at .5 lpm ? Is that CO2 level high? ? When I am in the sub alone it sits around 2,500ppmI am getting Gamma all geared up for a big dive with my mother as the passenger, that means a ladder, comfy seat, hot coffee, cookies.? She is very excited!Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 14 15:40:39 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 15:40:39 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <1581801394.1481463.1471165204508.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1581801394.1481463.1471165204508.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I find that to be the case as well Hank, with the notable exception of my mother: she's trying to find a way to sell Snoopy for scrap. ~ Doug S. On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 5:00 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Doug, > Yes it is pretty neat my mom is so excited and brave to go for a ride. I > find that people are either excited to go for a ride or they say "you will > never get me in that thing" But the people that are not able to bring > themselves to go for a ride still think it is very cool. ;-) > Hank > > > On Saturday, August 13, 2016 7:39 PM, Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, you're lucky that your mom is so excited. Mine is scared $h!tl3ss. ~ > Douglas S. > > On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 4:23 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi All, > I just did a two person life support test and the CO2 level sits around > 4,000ppm and the O2 flow is at .5 lpm Is that CO2 level high? When I > am in the sub alone it sits around 2,500ppm > I am getting Gamma all geared up for a big dive with my mother as the > passenger, that means a ladder, comfy seat, hot coffee, cookies. She is > very excited! > Hank > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 14 16:45:34 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:45:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: References: <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1581801394.1481463.1471165204508.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2072803766.5121552.1471207534650.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Perhaps a support group for mothers and wives of submarine owners. ?heheHank On Sunday, August 14, 2016 1:40 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I find that to be the case as well Hank, with the notable exception of my mother: she's trying to find a way to sell Snoopy for scrap. ~ Doug S. ? On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 5:00 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doug,Yes it is pretty neat my mom is so excited and brave to go for a ride.? I find that people are either excited to go for a ride or they say "you will never get me in that thing" ? But the people that are not able to bring themselves to go for a ride still think it is very cool. ;-)Hank On Saturday, August 13, 2016 7:39 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, you're lucky that your mom is so excited. Mine is scared $h!tl3ss. ~ Douglas S.? On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 4:23 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I just did a two person life support test and the CO2 level sits around 4,000ppm ?and the O2 flow is at .5 lpm ? Is that CO2 level high? ? When I am in the sub alone it sits around 2,500ppmI am getting Gamma all geared up for a big dive with my mother as the passenger, that means a ladder, comfy seat, hot coffee, cookies.? She is very excited!Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 14 17:20:57 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 21:20:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat Message-ID: <4F30962637699C08.493e5013-a472-4a9f-b1b0-212ba264b2f4@mail.outlook.com> I'm missing the pictures that are being referenced. Are links being scrubbed? Thanks. Brian Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 14 18:06:57 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 22:06:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: <4F30962637699C08.493e5013-a472-4a9f-b1b0-212ba264b2f4@mail.outlook.com> References: <4F30962637699C08.493e5013-a472-4a9f-b1b0-212ba264b2f4@mail.outlook.com> Message-ID: <705093464.16325184.1471212417608.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,you can check up on here.The Personal_Submersibles August 2016 Archive by thread | | | The Personal_Submersibles August 2016 Archive by thread | | | If that doesn't work,?go onto the psub site & click discussion, email discussion group,browse archive. Cheers Alan From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 9:20 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat I'm missing the pictures that are being referenced. Are links being scrubbed? Thanks.Brian Get Outlook for Android _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 14 18:43:19 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 22:43:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alan's new motors References: <1709643329.13959916.1471214599473.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1709643329.13959916.1471214599473.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,How are your motors progressing? ?You get your lathe working?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 14 19:39:03 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 23:39:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat Message-ID: <4F30962637699C08.cfcd0815-26d4-4ea4-bfb5-f90a1e5bf054@mail.outlook.com> This is all I get on my end, even in the archives. Can you post them under projects? Maybe start a boat support area we could all use. Or post them in the online email area. Brian _____ First picture. (testfile if the size work on these Psuns mails) vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat Datum: 2016-08-10T17:11:58+0200 Von: "James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" __________< Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 15 02:01:35 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 02:01:35 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: <4F30962637699C08.cfcd0815-26d4-4ea4-bfb5-f90a1e5bf054@mail.outlook.com> References: <4F30962637699C08.cfcd0815-26d4-4ea4-bfb5-f90a1e5bf054@mail.outlook.com> Message-ID: Brian, try the link below. I posted all of the photos that we've recently discussed on-list as a "support vessel" photo album under my name on the site. Too tired to caption each photo tonight, but I will do so in the future. Meantime, you can see the pictures there. ~ Doug S. http://www.psubs.org/projects/1322094525/supportvesselphotos/ On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 7:39 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > This is all I get on my end, even in the archives. Can you post them under > projects? Maybe start a boat support area we could all use. Or post them in > the online email area. > > Brian > _____ > > First picture. (testfile if the size work on these Psuns mails) > > vbr Carsten > > > > -----Original-Nachricht----- > Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Maynard's sub boat > Datum: 2016-08-10T17:11:58+0200 > Von: "James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles" > > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > > __________< > > Get Outlook for Android > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 15 02:09:40 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 02:09:40 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <2072803766.5121552.1471207534650.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1581801394.1481463.1471165204508.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <2072803766.5121552.1471207534650.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Great idea Hank... I've got your first member right in my own home... :( ~ Doug S. On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 4:45 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Perhaps a support group for mothers and wives of submarine owners. hehe > Hank > > > On Sunday, August 14, 2016 1:40 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > I find that to be the case as well Hank, with the notable exception of my > mother: she's trying to find a way to sell Snoopy for scrap. ~ Doug S. > > On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 5:00 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Doug, > Yes it is pretty neat my mom is so excited and brave to go for a ride. I > find that people are either excited to go for a ride or they say "you will > never get me in that thing" But the people that are not able to bring > themselves to go for a ride still think it is very cool. ;-) > Hank > > > On Saturday, August 13, 2016 7:39 PM, Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hank, you're lucky that your mom is so excited. Mine is scared $h!tl3ss. ~ > Douglas S. > > On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 4:23 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Hi All, > I just did a two person life support test and the CO2 level sits around > 4,000ppm and the O2 flow is at .5 lpm Is that CO2 level high? When I > am in the sub alone it sits around 2,500ppm > I am getting Gamma all geared up for a big dive with my mother as the > passenger, that means a ladder, comfy seat, hot coffee, cookies. She is > very excited! > Hank > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 15 05:46:44 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 09:46:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alan's new motors In-Reply-To: <1709643329.13959916.1471214599473.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1709643329.13959916.1471214599473.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1709643329.13959916.1471214599473.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1582466301.16270009.1471254404436.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Hank,thanks for the enquiry. Yes have finally got my lathe up & goingafter 2 months. The thruster motors are running a bit rough on both myKelly sensored controllers & my sensorless controllers. Althoughthey are reaching the correct rpm for the volts applied.There is very little out there in the way of brushless, sensored orunsensored DC motor controllers, that will run up to 40 amps & 48Vwith reverse. (& not cost the earth). I am coming to terms with the factthat I may have to make my own controller. Have just bought a frequencygenerator & oscilloscope to help with the process & to try & find whythe motors are running rough on the Kelly controller.I am appreciating the fact that I'm learning a bit more, but not happywith the lack of progress.Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:43 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alan's new motors Alan,How are your motors progressing? ?You get your lathe working?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 15 08:17:34 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 12:17:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alan's new motors In-Reply-To: <1582466301.16270009.1471254404436.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1709643329.13959916.1471214599473.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1709643329.13959916.1471214599473.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1582466301.16270009.1471254404436.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <644750037.14004381.1471263454318.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Not many people would attempt to do what you are doing, it is ?impressive! ?What happens when you run the motor direct off the battery without the controller. ?Hank On Monday, August 15, 2016 3:47 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank,thanks for the enquiry. Yes have finally got my lathe up & goingafter 2 months. The thruster motors are running a bit rough on both myKelly sensored controllers & my sensorless controllers. Althoughthey are reaching the correct rpm for the volts applied.There is very little out there in the way of brushless, sensored orunsensored DC motor controllers, that will run up to 40 amps & 48Vwith reverse. (& not cost the earth). I am coming to terms with the factthat I may have to make my own controller. Have just bought a frequencygenerator & oscilloscope to help with the process & to try & find whythe motors are running rough on the Kelly controller.I am appreciating the fact that I'm learning a bit more, but not happywith the lack of progress.Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:43 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alan's new motors Alan,How are your motors progressing? ?You get your lathe working?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 15 09:54:01 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 07:54:01 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: References: <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5152e497-2370-4827-8a45-492e4981bcd3@email.android.com> Just to add to Cliff's comment, you will get the most even consumption of scrubber media in a radial scrubber when the flow is from the outer diameter to the inner diameter. The flow velocity is slower at the greater diameter, so you want to expose the unscrubbed gas there first, so the CO2 concentration across the media lessens as the flow velocity increases at the inner diameter. Fortunately, this embodiment easily accommodates a squirrel cage fan drawing gas from an inner core. Sean On August 13, 2016 8:30:51 PM MDT, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Your scrubber meets ABS rules which requires the CO2 concentration to >stay >below 5000 ppm (1/2%) . From my own experience, I found that the type >of >fan and the flow orientation makes a big difference in how low the >scrubber >can pull the CO2 concentration down to. Specifically, squirrel cage >blowers work better than axial fans and radial flow works better than >axial > flow through the Sodasorb HP. > >I am proud of your mom. > >Cliff > > > >On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 3:23 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi All, >> I just did a two person life support test and the CO2 level sits >around >> 4,000ppm and the O2 flow is at .5 lpm Is that CO2 level high? >When I >> am in the sub alone it sits around 2,500ppm >> I am getting Gamma all geared up for a big dive with my mother as the >> passenger, that means a ladder, comfy seat, hot coffee, cookies. She >is >> very excited! >> Hank >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 15 10:12:28 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 14:12:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <5152e497-2370-4827-8a45-492e4981bcd3@email.android.com> References: <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5152e497-2370-4827-8a45-492e4981bcd3@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1469622436.15123362.1471270348403.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I think I will use my re-breather scrubber from Gamma in Elementary 3000 and make a new scrubber the way you describe for Gamma. ?The re-breather scrubber works fine for one person.Hank On Monday, August 15, 2016 7:54 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just to add to Cliff's comment, you will get the most even consumption of scrubber media in a radial scrubber when the flow is from the outer diameter to the inner diameter.? The flow velocity is slower at the greater diameter, so you want to expose the unscrubbed gas there first, so the CO2 concentration across the media lessens as the flow velocity increases at the inner diameter. Fortunately, this embodiment easily accommodates a squirrel cage fan drawing gas from an inner core.Sean On August 13, 2016 8:30:51 PM MDT, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Your scrubber meets ABS rules which requires the CO2 concentration to stay below 5000 ppm (1/2%)?.? From my own experience, I found that the type of fan and the flow orientation makes a big difference in how low the scrubber can pull the CO2 concentration down to.??Specifically, squirrel cage blowers work better than axial fans and radial flow works better than axial ?flow through the Sodasorb HP. I am proud of your mom.? Cliff On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 3:23 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I just did a two person life support test and the CO2 level sits around 4,000ppm ?and the O2 flow is at .5 lpm ? Is that CO2 level high? ? When I am in the sub alone it sits around 2,500ppmI am getting Gamma all geared up for a big dive with my mother as the passenger, that means a ladder, comfy seat, hot coffee, cookies.? She is very excited!Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 15 12:34:11 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 10:34:11 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <1469622436.15123362.1471270348403.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <974372071.14284343.1471119821674.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5152e497-2370-4827-8a45-492e4981bcd3@email.android.com> <1469622436.15123362.1471270348403.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Pay particular attention to ensuring that you can pack your scrubber in such a way as to eliminate the possibility of channelling. Gas will always flow through the least resistance path, and if the scrubber granules are not densely packed, your gas will flow through any voids in the media without being properly exposed to the surfaces of the media granules. Typically, diver rebreather scrubbers are filled in increments, with shaking / vibration mandated in between to settle the media to its most dense packing as you fill it, and finally a spring load or other adjustment maintains a zero clearance closure against the full scrubber. Perhaps less important in a sub than a rebreather, as in the sub you are not directly rebreathing your exhaled gas at full concentration, but efficiency is important for other reasons, not the least of which is your power budget. Sean On August 15, 2016 8:12:28 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >I think I will use my re-breather scrubber from Gamma in Elementary >3000 and make a new scrubber the way you describe for Gamma. ?The >re-breather scrubber works fine for one person.Hank > >On Monday, August 15, 2016 7:54 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Just to add to Cliff's comment, you will get the most even consumption >of scrubber media in a radial scrubber when the flow is from the outer >diameter to the inner diameter.? The flow velocity is slower at the >greater diameter, so you want to expose the unscrubbed gas there first, >so the CO2 concentration across the media lessens as the flow velocity >increases at the inner diameter. Fortunately, this embodiment easily >accommodates a squirrel cage fan drawing gas from an inner core.Sean > >On August 13, 2016 8:30:51 PM MDT, Cliff Redus via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Your scrubber meets ABS rules which requires the CO2 concentration to >stay below 5000 ppm (1/2%)?.? From my own experience, I found that the >type of fan and the flow orientation makes a big difference in how low >the scrubber can pull the CO2 concentration down to.??Specifically, >squirrel cage blowers work better than axial fans and radial flow works >better than axial ?flow through the Sodasorb HP. >I am proud of your mom.? >Cliff > > >On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 3:23 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >Hi All,I just did a two person life support test and the CO2 level sits >around 4,000ppm ?and the O2 flow is at .5 lpm ? Is that CO2 level high? >? When I am in the sub alone it sits around 2,500ppmI am getting Gamma >all geared up for a big dive with my mother as the passenger, that >means a ladder, comfy seat, hot coffee, cookies.? She is very >excited!Hank >______________________________ _________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 15 16:13:10 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 20:13:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alan's new motors In-Reply-To: <644750037.14004381.1471263454318.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1709643329.13959916.1471214599473.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1709643329.13959916.1471214599473.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1582466301.16270009.1471254404436.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <644750037.14004381.1471263454318.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <895118414.16776272.1471291990217.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Hank,the BLDC (brushless DC) motors have 3 large power wires coming from them.If you energized the right 2 you would get a momentary partial movement of the motor. In a "sensored" BLDC you usually have 3 hall effect sensorsthat send position feedback to a microcontroller, which turns on mosfets,(switches), & these?send power through to the correct 2 of the 3 wiresin sequence.There are various integrated circuits you can buy that do the job of receivingthe signals from your speed controller & the hall sensors, & then switch themosfets on at the correct time. The wiring diagrams are provided for all?of this;however?I will need to work on the mosfet circuitry & power input to them, plusa lot more, like over current protection & reversing.It's amazing what has happened with the internet over the last 20 years. Iwouldn't have had a foggy clue about any of this without it. If you don'tunderstand anything there are oodles of online videos & resourses.Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 12:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alan's new motors Alan,Not many people would attempt to do what you are doing, it is ?impressive! ?What happens when you run the motor direct off the battery without the controller. ?Hank On Monday, August 15, 2016 3:47 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank,thanks for the enquiry. Yes have finally got my lathe up & goingafter 2 months. The thruster motors are running a bit rough on both myKelly sensored controllers & my sensorless controllers. Althoughthey are reaching the correct rpm for the volts applied.There is very little out there in the way of brushless, sensored orunsensored DC motor controllers, that will run up to 40 amps & 48Vwith reverse. (& not cost the earth). I am coming to terms with the factthat I may have to make my own controller. Have just bought a frequencygenerator & oscilloscope to help with the process & to try & find whythe motors are running rough on the Kelly controller.I am appreciating the fact that I'm learning a bit more, but not happywith the lack of progress.Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:43 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alan's new motors Alan,How are your motors progressing? ?You get your lathe working?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 15 16:44:46 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 20:44:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: outboard motor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1867487676.14513661.1471293886122.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> So I need an outboard motor to experiment with. ?I need to put an outboard on Gamma, just to see what kind of power I need and how the sub reacts?with an outboard. ?Also I need an emergency back up motor for my barge in case the main engine dies and I am stranded in the middle of the lake. ?Problem is I am to cheap to buy a motor for experimenting and one time use on the barge. ?So the solution,lol, ?I found a 5 hp outboard motor at the dump with a wrecked ?power head, no surprise there. ?A few days later I found a 5 hp 4 stroke lawn mower with a small problem (broken cable) ?See the video LOLHank On Monday, August 15, 2016 2:38 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To8BdrNwyyE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2016-08-15 at 2.37 PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18426 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 15 16:57:23 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 20:57:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cheap 3d sonar Message-ID: <4F30962637699C08.b640f896-2ba0-48b9-aa90-4d4a6e9f16bc@mail.outlook.com> So I bought one of these to play with. I'll let you know if I can fill it with oil. And if so, it gets mounted on Harold, pointed down at maybe 45 degrees at the bow. What's not to like? https://youtu.be/sInyKe5qya4 Brian Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 15 17:29:22 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 21:29:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cheap 3d sonar In-Reply-To: <4F30962637699C08.b640f896-2ba0-48b9-aa90-4d4a6e9f16bc@mail.outlook.com> References: <4F30962637699C08.b640f896-2ba0-48b9-aa90-4d4a6e9f16bc@mail.outlook.com> Message-ID: <1111251536.2277628.1471296562163.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Brian,I had a look at another video & it said it connects via wifi, so you won't be able to get any readings if it is under the water. You could check that out easy enough.Alan From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 8:57 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cheap 3d sonar So I bought one of these to play with. I'll let you know if I can fill it with oil. And if so, it gets mounted on Harold, pointed down at maybe 45 degrees at the bow. What's not to like?https://youtu.be/sInyKe5qya4Brian Get Outlook for Android _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 15 17:33:42 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 21:33:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: outboard motor In-Reply-To: <1867487676.14513661.1471293886122.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1867487676.14513661.1471293886122.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <520237098.16724900.1471296822433.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Well done Hank,I know in the past they have used the samemotors for both mowers & outboards.I once assembled a working motor mower from5 derelict mowers; very satisfying.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 8:44 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: outboard motor So I need an outboard motor to experiment with. ?I need to put an outboard on Gamma, just to see what kind of power I need and how the sub reacts?with an outboard. ?Also I need an emergency back up motor for my barge in case the main engine dies and I am stranded in the middle of the lake. ?Problem is I am to cheap to buy a motor for experimenting and one time use on the barge. ?So the solution,lol, ?I found a 5 hp outboard motor at the dump with a wrecked ?power head, no surprise there. ?A few days later I found a 5 hp 4 stroke lawn mower with a small problem (broken cable) ?See the video LOLHank On Monday, August 15, 2016 2:38 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To8BdrNwyyE _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2016-08-15 at 2.37 PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18426 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 15 17:38:43 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 21:38:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cheap 3d sonar Message-ID: <4F30962637699C08.54a3d00d-1c3b-44fb-a30c-b970792ce1ee@mail.outlook.com> Or take it apart and mount the head outside. Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 15 18:13:59 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 18:13:59 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] recon mission In-Reply-To: <425066562.15766849.1471086826102.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160812130932.CCB7E84D@m0086238.ppops.net> <425066562.15766849.1471086826102.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Brian, hope your recon sail is proceeding as planned. Looking forward to photos and/or videos of possible dive locations! ~ Doug S. On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Have a safe trip Brian, > look forward to any videos. > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles org> > *To:* PSubs > *Sent:* Saturday, August 13, 2016 8:09 AM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] recon mission > > I'm headed out to Catalina and possibly Santa Barbara Island with the > sailboat for a couple of weeks. Going to do some reconnaissance for > places to dive a submarine, hope to get some good underwater video. Might > try to catch some fish as well !! > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 04:56:43 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 09:56:43 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video Message-ID: Another very similar video to the others, except its blurred, shaky and the battery ran out when I got towed out to deeper water. :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWXEtbbwN0c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 05:38:40 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 09:38:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1314485587.15751695.1471340320070.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> James,How deep did you end up diving. ?The visibility looks pretty good. ??Hank On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 2:57 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Another very similar video to the others, except its blurred, shaky and the battery ran out when I got towed out to deeper water.? :)?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWXEtbbwN0c _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 05:58:53 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 10:58:53 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: <1314485587.15751695.1471340320070.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1314485587.15751695.1471340320070.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, Not deep. About 10M max. The UW radio broke due to a faulty wire on the surface kit and the boatman (my Dad) was a bit reluctant to let me go out of sight. The diver tied on that temporary SMB, but he still wasn't happy with no comms. I didn't push it as he was getting grumpy. I will rig a proper reel and line next time for a bobber. On 16 August 2016 at 10:38, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, > How deep did you end up diving. The visibility looks pretty good. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 2:57 AM, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Another very similar video to the others, except its blurred, shaky and > the battery ran out when I got towed out to deeper water. :) > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWXEtbbwN0c > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 06:29:07 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 10:29:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: References: <1314485587.15751695.1471340320070.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1257587343.14964111.1471343347092.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> James,I have a buoy (diver below) ?behind the sub all the time and it is no bother. ?Your dad will love it, he will know exactly where you are.Hank On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 3:59 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank,?Not deep.? About 10M max.? The UW radio broke due to a faulty wire on the surface kit and the boatman (my Dad) was a bit reluctant to let me go out of sight.? The diver tied on that temporary SMB, but he still wasn't happy with no comms.??I didn't push it as he was getting grumpy.??? I will rig a proper reel and line next time for a bobber. On 16 August 2016 at 10:38, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James,How deep did you end up diving.? The visibility looks pretty good. ??Hank On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 2:57 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Another very similar video to the others, except its blurred, shaky and the battery ran out when I got towed out to deeper water.? :)?https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=eWXEtbbwN0c ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 06:46:05 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 11:46:05 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: <1257587343.14964111.1471343347092.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1314485587.15751695.1471340320070.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1257587343.14964111.1471343347092.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I am a bit reluctant to use it in case it gets tangled up. But I will get one with floating rope and put some floats on it near the sub, so its held out the way as best as possible. Im going to get a float like the long sausage one we used temporarily. A diver SMB. Boats tend to ignore ordinary bobbers as normally they are just crab pots, but with that type, it waves around and is obviously a diver. Comms failure was a real nuisance. It was only a wire on the battery terminal, but I didn't know that at sea. oh well. On 16 August 2016 at 11:29, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, > I have a buoy (diver below) behind the sub all the time and it is no > bother. Your dad will love it, he will know exactly where you are. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 3:59 AM, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > > Not deep. About 10M max. The UW radio broke due to a faulty wire on the > surface kit and the boatman (my Dad) was a bit reluctant to let me go out > of sight. The diver tied on that temporary SMB, but he still wasn't happy > with no comms. I didn't push it as he was getting grumpy. I will rig a > proper reel and line next time for a bobber. > > On 16 August 2016 at 10:38, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > James, > How deep did you end up diving. The visibility looks pretty good. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 2:57 AM, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Another very similar video to the others, except its blurred, shaky and > the battery ran out when I got towed out to deeper water. :) > > https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=eWXEtbbwN0c > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 08:19:29 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 12:19:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: References: <1314485587.15751695.1471340320070.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1257587343.14964111.1471343347092.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2034708042.15614559.1471349969556.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I agree that a bobber float is not good. ?I use a diver buoy with a flag. ?I agree there is some chance of getting tangled, I have only been tangled in my own prop at the surface. ?I was not paying attention and started motoring without making sure the line was clear. ?I also can jettison the line from the sub if it were tangled on an obstruction. ?Hank On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 4:46 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I am a bit reluctant to use it in case it gets tangled up.? But I will get one with floating rope and put some floats on it near the sub, so its?held out the way as best as possible.? Im going to get a float like the long sausage one we used temporarily.? A diver SMB.? Boats tend to ignore ordinary bobbers as normally they are just crab pots, but with that type, it waves around and is obviously a diver.? ?Comms failure was a real nuisance.? It was only a wire on the battery terminal, but I didn't know that at sea.?oh well. On 16 August 2016 at 11:29, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James,I have a buoy (diver below) ?behind the sub all the time and it is no bother.? Your dad will love it, he will know exactly where you are.Hank On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 3:59 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank,?Not deep.? About 10M max.? The UW radio broke due to a faulty wire on the surface kit and the boatman (my Dad) was a bit reluctant to let me go out of sight.? The diver tied on that temporary SMB, but he still wasn't happy with no comms.??I didn't push it as he was getting grumpy.??? I will rig a proper reel and line next time for a bobber. On 16 August 2016 at 10:38, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James,How deep did you end up diving.? The visibility looks pretty good. ??Hank On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 2:57 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Another very similar video to the others, except its blurred, shaky and the battery ran out when I got towed out to deeper water.? :)?https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=eWXEtbbwN0c ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 08:32:19 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 08:32:19 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: <1314485587.15751695.1471340320070.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1314485587.15751695.1471340320070.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Actually that was terrific, I really enjoyed it! Best, Alec On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 5:38 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, > How deep did you end up diving. The visibility looks pretty good. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 2:57 AM, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Another very similar video to the others, except its blurred, shaky and > the battery ran out when I got towed out to deeper water. :) > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWXEtbbwN0c > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 12:02:56 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 11:02:56 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?CO2_Sorb?= Message-ID: <20160816160256.30364.qmail@server268.com> Hey guys, Just doing a safety check. What is the rough amount of CO2 sorb that is needed per occupant per day (normally measured in weight)? I have a 48lb jug in Trustworthy which I know is enough for 2 people for 3 days. I am just planning on putting it in premeasured sealed bags for better storage and was wondering about how much does it actually take. Thank you, Scott Waters From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 14:09:28 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:09:28 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb In-Reply-To: <20160816160256.30364.qmail@server268.com> References: <20160816160256.30364.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: My understanding is that it's four person-hours per pound. Best, Alec On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 12:02 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hey guys, Just doing a safety check. What is the rough amount of CO2 sorb > that is needed per occupant per day (normally measured in weight)? I have a > 48lb jug in Trustworthy which I know is enough for 2 people for 3 days. I > am just planning on putting it in premeasured sealed bags for better > storage and was wondering about how much does it actually take. > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 14:40:43 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 13:40:43 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?CO2_Sorb?= In-Reply-To: References: <20160816160256.30364.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: <20160816184043.13390.qmail@server268.com> Thank you Alec. Very helpful! Scott Waters > -------Original Message------- > From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb > Sent: Aug 16 '16 13:10 > > My understanding is that it's four person-hours per pound. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 12:02 PM, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hey guys, Just doing a safety check. What is the rough amount of CO2 > > sorb that is needed per occupant per day (normally measured in > > weight)? I have a 48lb jug in Trustworthy which I know is enough for > > 2 people for 3 days. I am just planning on putting it in premeasured > > sealed bags for better storage and was wondering about how much does > > it actually take. > > > > Thank you, > > Scott Waters > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > ------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 15:10:16 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 15:10:16 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: References: <1314485587.15751695.1471340320070.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Great video James! I actually just bought a little slate myself and stashed it away in Snoopy in case I would ever have to write to a support diver. This video makes me believe the slate will really come in handy when I begin diving. ~ Doug S. On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Actually that was terrific, I really enjoyed it! > > Best, > > Alec > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 5:38 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> James, >> How deep did you end up diving. The visibility looks pretty good. >> Hank >> >> >> On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 2:57 AM, James Frankland via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Another very similar video to the others, except its blurred, shaky and >> the battery ran out when I got towed out to deeper water. :) >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWXEtbbwN0c >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 15:12:57 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:12:57 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb In-Reply-To: <20160816160256.30364.qmail@server268.com> References: <20160816160256.30364.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: Scott, ABS uses a value of 0.115 lbm CO2 generated per hour per occupant. Sotasorb HP specification says it can absorb 41% CO2 by weight. This comes out to 3.56 Persons-hours per pound of SodaSorb HP which is close the number Alec posted. ABS rules call for full life support for 72 hours plus normal duty time. If you assume normal duty time is 8 hours, then the life support system would need to last for 80 hours. For one person this would give 22.5 lbs of SodaSorbHP and for two, 45 lbs for this duration. Actual consumption rate is dependent on a lot of parameters, such as temperature, humidly, mass of occupants and design of scrubber to mention just a few. Cliff On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:02 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hey guys, Just doing a safety check. What is the rough amount of CO2 sorb > that is needed per occupant per day (normally measured in weight)? I have a > 48lb jug in Trustworthy which I know is enough for 2 people for 3 days. I > am just planning on putting it in premeasured sealed bags for better > storage and was wondering about how much does it actually take. > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 15:44:57 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 19:44:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K thrusters References: <1100470947.15421606.1471376697918.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1100470947.15421606.1471376697918.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,I am looking for a pair of K ?thrusters. ?I want the complete motor and housings. I don't mind rebuilding them as long as the motors are working. ? Contact me at hankpronk at live.caThank youHank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 15:54:40 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:54:40 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?CO2_Sorb?= In-Reply-To: References: <20160816160256.30364.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: <20160816195440.13615.qmail@server268.com> Thanks Cliff. I was also running the numbers on Pisces VI. We will have the following for 1 pilot and 3 observers for a 8 hour mission time and 5 day emergency use *400 cuft O2 outside hull emergency use (five 80cuft tanks) *160-81 cuft O2 inside hull for up to 8hr mission use (two 80cuft bottles allowing for full discharge) *144 lbs sodasorb emergency use (three 48lb jugs) *12 lbs sodasorb for up to 8hr mission use (two scrubbers loaded) Thank you, Scott Waters > -------Original Message------- > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb > Sent: Aug 16 '16 14:14 > > Scott, ABS uses a value of 0.115 lbm CO2 generated per hour per > occupant. Sotasorb HP specification says it can absorb 41% CO2 by > weight. This comes out to 3.56 Persons-hours per pound of SodaSorb HP > which is close the number Alec posted. ABS rules call for full life > support for 72 hours plus normal duty time. If you assume normal duty > time is 8 hours, then the life support system would need to last for > 80 hours. For one person this would give 22.5 lbs of SodaSorbHP and > for two, 45 lbs for this duration. > > Actual consumption rate is dependent on a lot of parameters, such as > temperature, humidly, mass of occupants and design of scrubber to > mention just a few. > > Cliff > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:02 AM, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hey guys, Just doing a safety check. What is the rough amount of CO2 > > sorb that is needed per occupant per day (normally measured in > > weight)? I have a 48lb jug in Trustworthy which I know is enough for > > 2 people for 3 days. I am just planning on putting it in premeasured > > sealed bags for better storage and was wondering about how much does > > it actually take. > > > > Thank you, > > Scott Waters > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > ------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 16:00:56 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 15:00:56 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb In-Reply-To: <20160816195440.13615.qmail@server268.com> References: <20160816160256.30364.qmail@server268.com> <20160816195440.13615.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: These numbers should work. Cliff On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 2:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Cliff. I was also running the numbers on Pisces VI. We will have > the following for 1 pilot and 3 observers for a 8 hour mission time and 5 > day emergency use > *400 cuft O2 outside hull emergency use (five 80cuft tanks) > *160-81 cuft O2 inside hull for up to 8hr mission use (two 80cuft bottles > allowing for full discharge) > *144 lbs sodasorb emergency use (three 48lb jugs) > *12 lbs sodasorb for up to 8hr mission use (two scrubbers loaded) > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb > > Sent: Aug 16 '16 14:14 > > > > Scott, ABS uses a value of 0.115 lbm CO2 generated per hour per > > occupant. Sotasorb HP specification says it can absorb 41% CO2 by > > weight. This comes out to 3.56 Persons-hours per pound of SodaSorb HP > > which is close the number Alec posted. ABS rules call for full life > > support for 72 hours plus normal duty time. If you assume normal duty > > time is 8 hours, then the life support system would need to last for > > 80 hours. For one person this would give 22.5 lbs of SodaSorbHP and > > for two, 45 lbs for this duration. > > > > Actual consumption rate is dependent on a lot of parameters, such as > > temperature, humidly, mass of occupants and design of scrubber to > > mention just a few. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:02 AM, via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > > Hey guys, Just doing a safety check. What is the rough amount of CO2 > > > sorb that is needed per occupant per day (normally measured in > > > weight)? I have a 48lb jug in Trustworthy which I know is enough for > > > 2 people for 3 days. I am just planning on putting it in premeasured > > > sealed bags for better storage and was wondering about how much does > > > it actually take. > > > > > > Thank you, > > > Scott Waters > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > ------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 18:03:18 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 18:03:18 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb In-Reply-To: <20160816195440.13615.qmail@server268.com> References: <20160816160256.30364.qmail@server268.com> <20160816195440.13615.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: I'm not sure how you're doing with your weight budget, but the Sodasorb weight really can become a space and weight issue when smaller boats go for compliance with the 72 hour rule. I know there's a competing product that's something like a pre-impregnated fabric instead of granules. Sorry, I can't recall the brand name. But it would be interesting to compare the weight and volume implications. Thanks, Alec On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Cliff. I was also running the numbers on Pisces VI. We will have > the following for 1 pilot and 3 observers for a 8 hour mission time and 5 > day emergency use > *400 cuft O2 outside hull emergency use (five 80cuft tanks) > *160-81 cuft O2 inside hull for up to 8hr mission use (two 80cuft bottles > allowing for full discharge) > *144 lbs sodasorb emergency use (three 48lb jugs) > *12 lbs sodasorb for up to 8hr mission use (two scrubbers loaded) > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb > > Sent: Aug 16 '16 14:14 > > > > Scott, ABS uses a value of 0.115 lbm CO2 generated per hour per > > occupant. Sotasorb HP specification says it can absorb 41% CO2 by > > weight. This comes out to 3.56 Persons-hours per pound of SodaSorb HP > > which is close the number Alec posted. ABS rules call for full life > > support for 72 hours plus normal duty time. If you assume normal duty > > time is 8 hours, then the life support system would need to last for > > 80 hours. For one person this would give 22.5 lbs of SodaSorbHP and > > for two, 45 lbs for this duration. > > > > Actual consumption rate is dependent on a lot of parameters, such as > > temperature, humidly, mass of occupants and design of scrubber to > > mention just a few. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:02 AM, via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > > Hey guys, Just doing a safety check. What is the rough amount of CO2 > > > sorb that is needed per occupant per day (normally measured in > > > weight)? I have a 48lb jug in Trustworthy which I know is enough for > > > 2 people for 3 days. I am just planning on putting it in premeasured > > > sealed bags for better storage and was wondering about how much does > > > it actually take. > > > > > > Thank you, > > > Scott Waters > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > ------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 18:12:13 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:12:13 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb Message-ID: This is for Pisces VI. With rescue missions easily taking 2 to 3 days to assymble, I wanted the extra allowance. There is enough space in the cockpit to handle the extra sorb. On Trustworthy, it is a different story. Lol Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Date: 08/16/2016 5:03 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb I'm not sure how you're doing with your weight budget, but the Sodasorb weight really can become a space and weight issue when smaller boats go for compliance with the 72 hour rule. I know there's a competing product that's something like a pre-impregnated fabric instead of granules. Sorry, I can't recall the brand name. But it would be interesting to compare the weight and volume implications. Thanks, Alec On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff. I was also running the numbers on Pisces VI. We will have the following for 1 pilot and 3 observers for a 8 hour mission time and 5 day emergency use *400 cuft O2 outside hull emergency use (five 80cuft tanks) *160-81 cuft O2 inside hull for up to 8hr mission use (two 80cuft bottles allowing for full discharge) *144 lbs sodasorb emergency use (three 48lb jugs) *12 lbs sodasorb for up to 8hr mission use (two scrubbers loaded) Thank you, Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb >? Sent: Aug 16 '16 14:14 > >? Scott, ABS? uses? a value of 0.115 lbm CO2? generated per hour per >? occupant.? Sotasorb HP specification says it can absorb 41% CO2 by >? weight.? This comes out to 3.56 Persons-hours per pound of SodaSorb HP >? which is close the number Alec posted.? ABS rules call for full life >? support for 72 hours plus normal duty time.? If you assume normal duty >? time is 8 hours, then the life support system would need to last for >? 80 hours.? For one person this would give 22.5 lbs of SodaSorbHP and >? for two, 45 lbs for this duration. > >? Actual consumption rate is dependent on a lot of parameters, such as >? temperature, humidly, mass of occupants and design of scrubber to >? mention just a few. > >? Cliff > >? On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:02 AM, via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: > >? > Hey guys, Just doing a safety check. What is the rough amount of CO2 >? > sorb that is needed per occupant per day (normally measured in >? > weight)? I have a 48lb jug in Trustworthy which I know is enough for >? > 2 people for 3 days. I am just planning on putting it in premeasured >? > sealed bags for better storage and was wondering about how much does >? > it actually take. >? > >? > Thank you, >? > Scott Waters >? > _______________________________________________ >? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >? ------------------------- >? _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 18:25:14 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 10:25:14 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb In-Reply-To: References: <20160816160256.30364.qmail@server268.com> <20160816195440.13615.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: <04BE3C86-09B3-4017-A37B-7D69163DFE79@yahoo.com> DNV-GL specify 4 days plus mission time. ABS 3 days. Graham Hawkes new "dragon" submersible has 24 hrs scrubbing time. This statistic isn't well advertised & you have to search in the faq to find it. I don't know how people come to their conclusions. Didn't the original k boats have no scrubbing & just come up after an hour? I guess it is largely depth dependant. If you are confident to be able to escape from your sub & aren't too deep, it is a different scenario than being 1000ft down with no hope of escape. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 17/08/2016, at 10:03 am, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I'm not sure how you're doing with your weight budget, but the Sodasorb weight really can become a space and weight issue when smaller boats go for compliance with the 72 hour rule. I know there's a competing product that's something like a pre-impregnated fabric instead of granules. Sorry, I can't recall the brand name. But it would be interesting to compare the weight and volume implications. > > > Thanks, > > Alec > >> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Thanks Cliff. I was also running the numbers on Pisces VI. We will have the following for 1 pilot and 3 observers for a 8 hour mission time and 5 day emergency use >> *400 cuft O2 outside hull emergency use (five 80cuft tanks) >> *160-81 cuft O2 inside hull for up to 8hr mission use (two 80cuft bottles allowing for full discharge) >> *144 lbs sodasorb emergency use (three 48lb jugs) >> *12 lbs sodasorb for up to 8hr mission use (two scrubbers loaded) >> >> Thank you, >> Scott Waters >> >> > -------Original Message------- >> > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb >> > Sent: Aug 16 '16 14:14 >> > >> > Scott, ABS uses a value of 0.115 lbm CO2 generated per hour per >> > occupant. Sotasorb HP specification says it can absorb 41% CO2 by >> > weight. This comes out to 3.56 Persons-hours per pound of SodaSorb HP >> > which is close the number Alec posted. ABS rules call for full life >> > support for 72 hours plus normal duty time. If you assume normal duty >> > time is 8 hours, then the life support system would need to last for >> > 80 hours. For one person this would give 22.5 lbs of SodaSorbHP and >> > for two, 45 lbs for this duration. >> > >> > Actual consumption rate is dependent on a lot of parameters, such as >> > temperature, humidly, mass of occupants and design of scrubber to >> > mention just a few. >> > >> > Cliff >> > >> > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:02 AM, via Personal_Submersibles >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Hey guys, Just doing a safety check. What is the rough amount of CO2 >> > > sorb that is needed per occupant per day (normally measured in >> > > weight)? I have a 48lb jug in Trustworthy which I know is enough for >> > > 2 people for 3 days. I am just planning on putting it in premeasured >> > > sealed bags for better storage and was wondering about how much does >> > > it actually take. >> > > >> > > Thank you, >> > > Scott Waters >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > ------------------------- >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 18:37:54 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:37:54 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb Message-ID: <8l5076aflmsep3uea3vxkb9c.1471387074084@email.android.com> And even more so 8,000 feet down where only 5 other operating submarines in the world can get to you and only a few ROV's can get to you. With Pisces VI we will have emergency rescue plans, but getting a ROV off a ship in the ocean, then loading on a cargo plane, then on a boat, then to the location of the accedent takes alot of time. Pisces III rescue extended them to the end of the 72 hour period and just about didn't make it out alive. I worry 5 days is enough, but any more starts to have major space problems inside the cockpit.Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: 08/16/2016 5:25 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb DNV-GL specify 4 days plus mission time. ABS 3 days.Graham Hawkes new "dragon" submersible has 24 hrs scrubbing time.This statistic ?isn't well advertised & you have to search in the faq to find it.I don't know how people come to their conclusions.Didn't the original k boats have no scrubbing & just come up after an hour?I guess it is largely depth dependant. If you are confident to be able to escapefrom your sub & aren't too deep, it is a different scenario than being 1000ftdown with no hope of escape.Alan? Sent from my iPad On 17/08/2016, at 10:03 am, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I'm not sure how you're doing with your weight budget, but the Sodasorb weight really can become a space and weight issue when smaller boats go for compliance with the 72 hour rule. I know there's a competing product that's something like a pre-impregnated fabric instead of granules. Sorry, I can't recall the brand name. But it would be interesting to compare the weight and volume implications. Thanks, Alec On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff. I was also running the numbers on Pisces VI. We will have the following for 1 pilot and 3 observers for a 8 hour mission time and 5 day emergency use *400 cuft O2 outside hull emergency use (five 80cuft tanks) *160-81 cuft O2 inside hull for up to 8hr mission use (two 80cuft bottles allowing for full discharge) *144 lbs sodasorb emergency use (three 48lb jugs) *12 lbs sodasorb for up to 8hr mission use (two scrubbers loaded) Thank you, Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb >? Sent: Aug 16 '16 14:14 > >? Scott, ABS? uses? a value of 0.115 lbm CO2? generated per hour per >? occupant.? Sotasorb HP specification says it can absorb 41% CO2 by >? weight.? This comes out to 3.56 Persons-hours per pound of SodaSorb HP >? which is close the number Alec posted.? ABS rules call for full life >? support for 72 hours plus normal duty time.? If you assume normal duty >? time is 8 hours, then the life support system would need to last for >? 80 hours.? For one person this would give 22.5 lbs of SodaSorbHP and >? for two, 45 lbs for this duration. > >? Actual consumption rate is dependent on a lot of parameters, such as >? temperature, humidly, mass of occupants and design of scrubber to >? mention just a few. > >? Cliff > >? On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:02 AM, via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: > >? > Hey guys, Just doing a safety check. What is the rough amount of CO2 >? > sorb that is needed per occupant per day (normally measured in >? > weight)? I have a 48lb jug in Trustworthy which I know is enough for >? > 2 people for 3 days. I am just planning on putting it in premeasured >? > sealed bags for better storage and was wondering about how much does >? > it actually take. >? > >? > Thank you, >? > Scott Waters >? > _______________________________________________ >? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >? ------------------------- >? _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 18:42:26 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 10:42:26 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Does anyone know much about the Deep Worker scrubbers? The new ones aren't cylindrical, they are an oblong shape that fits the contour of the subs hull either side of your legs. There are 2 of them with fans on the front. I cant see how you would change out the absorbent during a dive as there would not be much room when you are in there. Or do they hold the full amount in both of them. If this is so, I presume they run one at a time, so is the redundant scrubber sealed in any way prior to use? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 17/08/2016, at 10:12 am, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > This is for Pisces VI. With rescue missions easily taking 2 to 3 days to assymble, I wanted the extra allowance. There is enough space in the cockpit to handle the extra sorb. On Trustworthy, it is a different story. Lol > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 08/16/2016 5:03 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb > > I'm not sure how you're doing with your weight budget, but the Sodasorb weight really can become a space and weight issue when smaller boats go for compliance with the 72 hour rule. I know there's a competing product that's something like a pre-impregnated fabric instead of granules. Sorry, I can't recall the brand name. But it would be interesting to compare the weight and volume implications. > > > Thanks, > > Alec > >> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Thanks Cliff. I was also running the numbers on Pisces VI. We will have the following for 1 pilot and 3 observers for a 8 hour mission time and 5 day emergency use >> *400 cuft O2 outside hull emergency use (five 80cuft tanks) >> *160-81 cuft O2 inside hull for up to 8hr mission use (two 80cuft bottles allowing for full discharge) >> *144 lbs sodasorb emergency use (three 48lb jugs) >> *12 lbs sodasorb for up to 8hr mission use (two scrubbers loaded) >> >> Thank you, >> Scott Waters >> >> > -------Original Message------- >> > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb >> > Sent: Aug 16 '16 14:14 >> > >> > Scott, ABS uses a value of 0.115 lbm CO2 generated per hour per >> > occupant. Sotasorb HP specification says it can absorb 41% CO2 by >> > weight. This comes out to 3.56 Persons-hours per pound of SodaSorb HP >> > which is close the number Alec posted. ABS rules call for full life >> > support for 72 hours plus normal duty time. If you assume normal duty >> > time is 8 hours, then the life support system would need to last for >> > 80 hours. For one person this would give 22.5 lbs of SodaSorbHP and >> > for two, 45 lbs for this duration. >> > >> > Actual consumption rate is dependent on a lot of parameters, such as >> > temperature, humidly, mass of occupants and design of scrubber to >> > mention just a few. >> > >> > Cliff >> > >> > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:02 AM, via Personal_Submersibles >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Hey guys, Just doing a safety check. What is the rough amount of CO2 >> > > sorb that is needed per occupant per day (normally measured in >> > > weight)? I have a 48lb jug in Trustworthy which I know is enough for >> > > 2 people for 3 days. I am just planning on putting it in premeasured >> > > sealed bags for better storage and was wondering about how much does >> > > it actually take. >> > > >> > > Thank you, >> > > Scott Waters >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > ------------------------- >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 18:48:36 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 10:48:36 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb In-Reply-To: <8l5076aflmsep3uea3vxkb9c.1471387074084@email.android.com> References: <8l5076aflmsep3uea3vxkb9c.1471387074084@email.android.com> Message-ID: <6CB66639-CDC8-45D9-9737-1FE6807DA6C4@yahoo.com> Scott, maybe you could invest in a fly out rov with a rope cutting tool. I think in James Cameron's movie "Aliens of the Deep" they had a fly out rov. Plenty of little rovs at the Underwater intervention convention. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 17/08/2016, at 10:37 am, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > And even more so 8,000 feet down where only 5 other operating submarines in the world can get to you and only a few ROV's can get to you. With Pisces VI we will have emergency rescue plans, but getting a ROV off a ship in the ocean, then loading on a cargo plane, then on a boat, then to the location of the accedent takes alot of time. Pisces III rescue extended them to the end of the 72 hour period and just about didn't make it out alive. I worry 5 days is enough, but any more starts to have major space problems inside the cockpit. > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 08/16/2016 5:25 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb > > DNV-GL specify 4 days plus mission time. ABS 3 days. > Graham Hawkes new "dragon" submersible has 24 hrs scrubbing time. > This statistic isn't well advertised & you have to search in the faq to find it. > I don't know how people come to their conclusions. > Didn't the original k boats have no scrubbing & just come up after an hour? > I guess it is largely depth dependant. If you are confident to be able to escape > from your sub & aren't too deep, it is a different scenario than being 1000ft > down with no hope of escape. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 17/08/2016, at 10:03 am, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> I'm not sure how you're doing with your weight budget, but the Sodasorb weight really can become a space and weight issue when smaller boats go for compliance with the 72 hour rule. I know there's a competing product that's something like a pre-impregnated fabric instead of granules. Sorry, I can't recall the brand name. But it would be interesting to compare the weight and volume implications. >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Alec >> >>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Thanks Cliff. I was also running the numbers on Pisces VI. We will have the following for 1 pilot and 3 observers for a 8 hour mission time and 5 day emergency use >>> *400 cuft O2 outside hull emergency use (five 80cuft tanks) >>> *160-81 cuft O2 inside hull for up to 8hr mission use (two 80cuft bottles allowing for full discharge) >>> *144 lbs sodasorb emergency use (three 48lb jugs) >>> *12 lbs sodasorb for up to 8hr mission use (two scrubbers loaded) >>> >>> Thank you, >>> Scott Waters >>> >>> > -------Original Message------- >>> > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb >>> > Sent: Aug 16 '16 14:14 >>> > >>> > Scott, ABS uses a value of 0.115 lbm CO2 generated per hour per >>> > occupant. Sotasorb HP specification says it can absorb 41% CO2 by >>> > weight. This comes out to 3.56 Persons-hours per pound of SodaSorb HP >>> > which is close the number Alec posted. ABS rules call for full life >>> > support for 72 hours plus normal duty time. If you assume normal duty >>> > time is 8 hours, then the life support system would need to last for >>> > 80 hours. For one person this would give 22.5 lbs of SodaSorbHP and >>> > for two, 45 lbs for this duration. >>> > >>> > Actual consumption rate is dependent on a lot of parameters, such as >>> > temperature, humidly, mass of occupants and design of scrubber to >>> > mention just a few. >>> > >>> > Cliff >>> > >>> > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:02 AM, via Personal_Submersibles >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > > Hey guys, Just doing a safety check. What is the rough amount of CO2 >>> > > sorb that is needed per occupant per day (normally measured in >>> > > weight)? I have a 48lb jug in Trustworthy which I know is enough for >>> > > 2 people for 3 days. I am just planning on putting it in premeasured >>> > > sealed bags for better storage and was wondering about how much does >>> > > it actually take. >>> > > >>> > > Thank you, >>> > > Scott Waters >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> > >>> > ------------------------- >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 18:47:05 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 22:47:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <158485538.16098135.1471387625117.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,There is a solution for rescue at 1,000 feet,, escape pod :-) ? I think the DW has enough absorbent between the two scrubbers for 36 hr plus they always dive with a second DW on deck. ?They throw all the absorbent away after every dive I am told. ?Hank On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 4:42 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Does anyone know much about the Deep Worker scrubbers?The new ones aren't cylindrical, they are an oblong shape that fits the contourof the subs hull either side of your legs. There are 2 of them with fans on the front.?I cant see how you would change out the absorbent during a dive as there would?not be much room when you are in there. Or do they hold the full amount in both of them.If this is so, I presume they run one at a time, so is the redundant scrubber sealedin any way prior to use?Alan ? Sent from my iPad On 17/08/2016, at 10:12 am, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: This is for Pisces VI. With rescue missions easily taking 2 to 3 days to assymble, I wanted the extra allowance. There is enough space in the cockpit to handle the extra sorb. On Trustworthy, it is a different story. Lol Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Date: 08/16/2016 5:03 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb I'm not sure how you're doing with your weight budget, but the Sodasorb weight really can become a space and weight issue when smaller boats go for compliance with the 72 hour rule. I know there's a competing product that's something like a pre-impregnated fabric instead of granules. Sorry, I can't recall the brand name. But it would be interesting to compare the weight and volume implications. Thanks, Alec On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff. I was also running the numbers on Pisces VI. We will have the following for 1 pilot and 3 observers for a 8 hour mission time and 5 day emergency use *400 cuft O2 outside hull emergency use (five 80cuft tanks) *160-81 cuft O2 inside hull for up to 8hr mission use (two 80cuft bottles allowing for full discharge) *144 lbs sodasorb emergency use (three 48lb jugs) *12 lbs sodasorb for up to 8hr mission use (two scrubbers loaded) Thank you, Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb >? Sent: Aug 16 '16 14:14 > >? Scott, ABS? uses? a value of 0.115 lbm CO2? generated per hour per >? occupant.? Sotasorb HP specification says it can absorb 41% CO2 by >? weight.? This comes out to 3.56 Persons-hours per pound of SodaSorb HP >? which is close the number Alec posted.? ABS rules call for full life >? support for 72 hours plus normal duty time.? If you assume normal duty >? time is 8 hours, then the life support system would need to last for >? 80 hours.? For one person this would give 22.5 lbs of SodaSorbHP and >? for two, 45 lbs for this duration. > >? Actual consumption rate is dependent on a lot of parameters, such as >? temperature, humidly, mass of occupants and design of scrubber to >? mention just a few. > >? Cliff > >? On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:02 AM, via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: > >? > Hey guys, Just doing a safety check. What is the rough amount of CO2 >? > sorb that is needed per occupant per day (normally measured in >? > weight)? I have a 48lb jug in Trustworthy which I know is enough for >? > 2 people for 3 days. I am just planning on putting it in premeasured >? > sealed bags for better storage and was wondering about how much does >? > it actually take. >? > >? > Thank you, >? > Scott Waters >? > ______________________________ _________________ >? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > >? ------------------------- >? ______________________________ _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 19:13:48 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 11:13:48 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb In-Reply-To: <158485538.16098135.1471387625117.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <158485538.16098135.1471387625117.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Hank, unfortunately Scott would need a big escape pod for all the crew. If he had a fly out rov he could use it for gaining video footage of his dives. I think Scotts submarine hobby is getting out of hand. lol. Happy Birthday for the other day Scott. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 17/08/2016, at 10:47 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > There is a solution for rescue at 1,000 feet,, escape pod :-) I think the DW has enough absorbent between the two scrubbers for 36 hr plus they always dive with a second DW on deck. They throw all the absorbent away after every dive I am told. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 4:42 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Does anyone know much about the Deep Worker scrubbers? > The new ones aren't cylindrical, they are an oblong shape that fits the contour > of the subs hull either side of your legs. There are 2 of them with fans on the front. > I cant see how you would change out the absorbent during a dive as there would > not be much room when you are in there. Or do they hold the full amount in both of them. > If this is so, I presume they run one at a time, so is the redundant scrubber sealed > in any way prior to use? > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 17/08/2016, at 10:12 am, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > > > This is for Pisces VI. With rescue missions easily taking 2 to 3 days to assymble, I wanted the extra allowance. There is enough space in the cockpit to handle the extra sorb. On Trustworthy, it is a different story. Lol > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 08/16/2016 5:03 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb > > I'm not sure how you're doing with your weight budget, but the Sodasorb weight really can become a space and weight issue when smaller boats go for compliance with the 72 hour rule. I know there's a competing product that's something like a pre-impregnated fabric instead of granules. Sorry, I can't recall the brand name. But it would be interesting to compare the weight and volume implications. > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks Cliff. I was also running the numbers on Pisces VI. We will have the following for 1 pilot and 3 observers for a 8 hour mission time and 5 day emergency use > *400 cuft O2 outside hull emergency use (five 80cuft tanks) > *160-81 cuft O2 inside hull for up to 8hr mission use (two 80cuft bottles allowing for full discharge) > *144 lbs sodasorb emergency use (three 48lb jugs) > *12 lbs sodasorb for up to 8hr mission use (two scrubbers loaded) > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb > > Sent: Aug 16 '16 14:14 > > > > Scott, ABS uses a value of 0.115 lbm CO2 generated per hour per > > occupant. Sotasorb HP specification says it can absorb 41% CO2 by > > weight. This comes out to 3.56 Persons-hours per pound of SodaSorb HP > > which is close the number Alec posted. ABS rules call for full life > > support for 72 hours plus normal duty time. If you assume normal duty > > time is 8 hours, then the life support system would need to last for > > 80 hours. For one person this would give 22.5 lbs of SodaSorbHP and > > for two, 45 lbs for this duration. > > > > Actual consumption rate is dependent on a lot of parameters, such as > > temperature, humidly, mass of occupants and design of scrubber to > > mention just a few. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:02 AM, via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > > Hey guys, Just doing a safety check. What is the rough amount of CO2 > > > sorb that is needed per occupant per day (normally measured in > > > weight)? I have a 48lb jug in Trustworthy which I know is enough for > > > 2 people for 3 days. I am just planning on putting it in premeasured > > > sealed bags for better storage and was wondering about how much does > > > it actually take. > > > > > > Thank you, > > > Scott Waters > > > ______________________________ _________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ------------------------- > > ______________________________ _________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 19:32:54 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 19:32:54 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb In-Reply-To: <20160816195440.13615.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: <15695b35a0d-6dea-46d0@webprd-m38.mail.aol.com> We'll be looking into Lithium Hydroxide for emergency use in P-VI as it is longer lasting per unit of volume, more efficient, and more temperature tolerant. It is also expensive by comparison. However, the sheer volume of material will be smaller, so easier to store. Vance -----Original Message----- From: via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Aug 16, 2016 3:55 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb Thanks Cliff. I was also running the numbers on Pisces VI. We will have the following for 1 pilot and 3 observers for a 8 hour mission time and 5 day emergency use *400 cuft O2 outside hull emergency use (five 80cuft tanks) *160-81 cuft O2 inside hull for up to 8hr mission use (two 80cuft bottles allowing for full discharge) *144 lbs sodasorb emergency use (three 48lb jugs) *12 lbs sodasorb for up to 8hr mission use (two scrubbers loaded) Thank you, Scott Waters > -------Original Message------- > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb > Sent: Aug 16 '16 14:14 > > Scott, ABS uses a value of 0.115 lbm CO2 generated per hour per > occupant. Sotasorb HP specification says it can absorb 41% CO2 by > weight. This comes out to 3.56 Persons-hours per pound of SodaSorb HP > which is close the number Alec posted. ABS rules call for full life > support for 72 hours plus normal duty time. If you assume normal duty > time is 8 hours, then the life support system would need to last for > 80 hours. For one person this would give 22.5 lbs of SodaSorbHP and > for two, 45 lbs for this duration. > > Actual consumption rate is dependent on a lot of parameters, such as > temperature, humidly, mass of occupants and design of scrubber to > mention just a few. > > Cliff > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:02 AM, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hey guys, Just doing a safety check. What is the rough amount of CO2 > > sorb that is needed per occupant per day (normally measured in > > weight)? I have a 48lb jug in Trustworthy which I know is enough for > > 2 people for 3 days. I am just planning on putting it in premeasured > > sealed bags for better storage and was wondering about how much does > > it actually take. > > > > Thank you, > > Scott Waters > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > ------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 19:36:24 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 23:36:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb In-Reply-To: References: <158485538.16098135.1471387625117.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1828665192.14998939.1471390584068.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Yes agreed, I was talking about 1,000 foot capable small subs. ?Perhaps the Pisces could be modified to have a?detaching occupant sphere like Alvin has.A small?rob would be?excellent? On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 5:14 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Hank,unfortunately Scott would need a big escape pod for all the crew.If he had a fly out rov he could use it for gaining video footage ofhis dives. I think Scotts submarine hobby is getting out of hand. lol.Happy Birthday for the other day Scott.Alan Sent from my iPad On 17/08/2016, at 10:47 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,There is a solution for rescue at 1,000 feet,, escape pod :-) ? I think the DW has enough absorbent between the two scrubbers for 36 hr plus they always dive with a second DW on deck. ?They throw all the absorbent away after every dive I am told. ?Hank On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 4:42 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Does anyone know much about the Deep Worker scrubbers?The new ones aren't cylindrical, they are an oblong shape that fits the contourof the subs hull either side of your legs. There are 2 of them with fans on the front.?I cant see how you would change out the absorbent during a dive as there would?not be much room when you are in there. Or do they hold the full amount in both of them.If this is so, I presume they run one at a time, so is the redundant scrubber sealedin any way prior to use?Alan ? Sent from my iPad On 17/08/2016, at 10:12 am, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: This is for Pisces VI. With rescue missions easily taking 2 to 3 days to assymble, I wanted the extra allowance. There is enough space in the cockpit to handle the extra sorb. On Trustworthy, it is a different story. Lol Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Date: 08/16/2016 5:03 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb I'm not sure how you're doing with your weight budget, but the Sodasorb weight really can become a space and weight issue when smaller boats go for compliance with the 72 hour rule. I know there's a competing product that's something like a pre-impregnated fabric instead of granules. Sorry, I can't recall the brand name. But it would be interesting to compare the weight and volume implications. Thanks, Alec On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff. I was also running the numbers on Pisces VI. We will have the following for 1 pilot and 3 observers for a 8 hour mission time and 5 day emergency use *400 cuft O2 outside hull emergency use (five 80cuft tanks) *160-81 cuft O2 inside hull for up to 8hr mission use (two 80cuft bottles allowing for full discharge) *144 lbs sodasorb emergency use (three 48lb jugs) *12 lbs sodasorb for up to 8hr mission use (two scrubbers loaded) Thank you, Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb >? Sent: Aug 16 '16 14:14 > >? Scott, ABS? uses? a value of 0.115 lbm CO2? generated per hour per >? occupant.? Sotasorb HP specification says it can absorb 41% CO2 by >? weight.? This comes out to 3.56 Persons-hours per pound of SodaSorb HP >? which is close the number Alec posted.? ABS rules call for full life >? support for 72 hours plus normal duty time.? If you assume normal duty >? time is 8 hours, then the life support system would need to last for >? 80 hours.? For one person this would give 22.5 lbs of SodaSorbHP and >? for two, 45 lbs for this duration. > >? Actual consumption rate is dependent on a lot of parameters, such as >? temperature, humidly, mass of occupants and design of scrubber to >? mention just a few. > >? Cliff > >? On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:02 AM, via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: > >? > Hey guys, Just doing a safety check. What is the rough amount of CO2 >? > sorb that is needed per occupant per day (normally measured in >? > weight)? I have a 48lb jug in Trustworthy which I know is enough for >? > 2 people for 3 days. I am just planning on putting it in premeasured >? > sealed bags for better storage and was wondering about how much does >? > it actually take. >? > >? > Thank you, >? > Scott Waters >? > ______________________________ _________________ >? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > >? ------------------------- >? ______________________________ _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 19:40:37 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 23:40:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb In-Reply-To: <1828665192.14998939.1471390584068.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <158485538.16098135.1471387625117.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1828665192.14998939.1471390584068.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <342611914.15551994.1471390837058.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> oops,I meant ROV would be?excellentHank On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 5:39 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes agreed, I was talking about 1,000 foot capable small subs. ?Perhaps the Pisces could be modified to have a?detaching occupant sphere like Alvin has.A small?rob would be?excellent? On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 5:14 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Hank,unfortunately Scott would need a big escape pod for all the crew.If he had a fly out rov he could use it for gaining video footage ofhis dives. I think Scotts submarine hobby is getting out of hand. lol.Happy Birthday for the other day Scott.Alan Sent from my iPad On 17/08/2016, at 10:47 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,There is a solution for rescue at 1,000 feet,, escape pod :-) ? I think the DW has enough absorbent between the two scrubbers for 36 hr plus they always dive with a second DW on deck. ?They throw all the absorbent away after every dive I am told. ?Hank On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 4:42 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Does anyone know much about the Deep Worker scrubbers?The new ones aren't cylindrical, they are an oblong shape that fits the contourof the subs hull either side of your legs. There are 2 of them with fans on the front.?I cant see how you would change out the absorbent during a dive as there would?not be much room when you are in there. Or do they hold the full amount in both of them.If this is so, I presume they run one at a time, so is the redundant scrubber sealedin any way prior to use?Alan ? Sent from my iPad On 17/08/2016, at 10:12 am, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: This is for Pisces VI. With rescue missions easily taking 2 to 3 days to assymble, I wanted the extra allowance. There is enough space in the cockpit to handle the extra sorb. On Trustworthy, it is a different story. Lol Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Date: 08/16/2016 5:03 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb I'm not sure how you're doing with your weight budget, but the Sodasorb weight really can become a space and weight issue when smaller boats go for compliance with the 72 hour rule. I know there's a competing product that's something like a pre-impregnated fabric instead of granules. Sorry, I can't recall the brand name. But it would be interesting to compare the weight and volume implications. Thanks, Alec On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff. I was also running the numbers on Pisces VI. We will have the following for 1 pilot and 3 observers for a 8 hour mission time and 5 day emergency use *400 cuft O2 outside hull emergency use (five 80cuft tanks) *160-81 cuft O2 inside hull for up to 8hr mission use (two 80cuft bottles allowing for full discharge) *144 lbs sodasorb emergency use (three 48lb jugs) *12 lbs sodasorb for up to 8hr mission use (two scrubbers loaded) Thank you, Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb >? Sent: Aug 16 '16 14:14 > >? Scott, ABS? uses? a value of 0.115 lbm CO2? generated per hour per >? occupant.? Sotasorb HP specification says it can absorb 41% CO2 by >? weight.? This comes out to 3.56 Persons-hours per pound of SodaSorb HP >? which is close the number Alec posted.? ABS rules call for full life >? support for 72 hours plus normal duty time.? If you assume normal duty >? time is 8 hours, then the life support system would need to last for >? 80 hours.? For one person this would give 22.5 lbs of SodaSorbHP and >? for two, 45 lbs for this duration. > >? Actual consumption rate is dependent on a lot of parameters, such as >? temperature, humidly, mass of occupants and design of scrubber to >? mention just a few. > >? Cliff > >? On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:02 AM, via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: > >? > Hey guys, Just doing a safety check. What is the rough amount of CO2 >? > sorb that is needed per occupant per day (normally measured in >? > weight)? I have a 48lb jug in Trustworthy which I know is enough for >? > 2 people for 3 days. I am just planning on putting it in premeasured >? > sealed bags for better storage and was wondering about how much does >? > it actually take. >? > >? > Thank you, >? > Scott Waters >? > ______________________________ _________________ >? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > >? ------------------------- >? ______________________________ _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 19:49:40 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 18:49:40 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb In-Reply-To: References: <158485538.16098135.1471387625117.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Scott, I note that you are shooting for 8000 fsw operating depth on Pisces VI but Busby table 4.1, page 83 sites operating depth of boat at 6500 fsw. Has the boat been modified to get to 8000 ft or was this a error in the table? BTW, let me know when you plan to test the hull at SwRI in San Antonio, I use to work there. I would love to attend the test and help any way I can. Regards Cliff On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 6:13 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Hank, > unfortunately Scott would need a big escape pod for all the crew. > If he had a fly out rov he could use it for gaining video footage of > his dives. I think Scotts submarine hobby is getting out of hand. lol. > Happy Birthday for the other day Scott. > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 17/08/2016, at 10:47 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > There is a solution for rescue at 1,000 feet,, escape pod :-) I think > the DW has enough absorbent between the two scrubbers for 36 hr plus they > always dive with a second DW on deck. They throw all the absorbent away > after every dive I am told. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 4:42 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Does anyone know much about the Deep Worker scrubbers? > The new ones aren't cylindrical, they are an oblong shape that fits the > contour > of the subs hull either side of your legs. There are 2 of them with fans > on the front. > I cant see how you would change out the absorbent during a dive as there > would > not be much room when you are in there. Or do they hold the full amount in > both of them. > If this is so, I presume they run one at a time, so is the redundant > scrubber sealed > in any way prior to use? > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 17/08/2016, at 10:12 am, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > This is for Pisces VI. With rescue missions easily taking 2 to 3 days to > assymble, I wanted the extra allowance. There is enough space in the > cockpit to handle the extra sorb. On Trustworthy, it is a different story. > Lol > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles org> > Date: 08/16/2016 5:03 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb > > I'm not sure how you're doing with your weight budget, but the Sodasorb > weight really can become a space and weight issue when smaller boats go for > compliance with the 72 hour rule. I know there's a competing product that's > something like a pre-impregnated fabric instead of granules. Sorry, I can't > recall the brand name. But it would be interesting to compare the weight > and volume implications. > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks Cliff. I was also running the numbers on Pisces VI. We will have > the following for 1 pilot and 3 observers for a 8 hour mission time and 5 > day emergency use > *400 cuft O2 outside hull emergency use (five 80cuft tanks) > *160-81 cuft O2 inside hull for up to 8hr mission use (two 80cuft bottles > allowing for full discharge) > *144 lbs sodasorb emergency use (three 48lb jugs) > *12 lbs sodasorb for up to 8hr mission use (two scrubbers loaded) > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles org > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb > > Sent: Aug 16 '16 14:14 > > > > Scott, ABS uses a value of 0.115 lbm CO2 generated per hour per > > occupant. Sotasorb HP specification says it can absorb 41% CO2 by > > weight. This comes out to 3.56 Persons-hours per pound of SodaSorb HP > > which is close the number Alec posted. ABS rules call for full life > > support for 72 hours plus normal duty time. If you assume normal duty > > time is 8 hours, then the life support system would need to last for > > 80 hours. For one person this would give 22.5 lbs of SodaSorbHP and > > for two, 45 lbs for this duration. > > > > Actual consumption rate is dependent on a lot of parameters, such as > > temperature, humidly, mass of occupants and design of scrubber to > > mention just a few. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:02 AM, via Personal_Submersibles > > > > wrote: > > > > > Hey guys, Just doing a safety check. What is the rough amount of CO2 > > > sorb that is needed per occupant per day (normally measured in > > > weight)? I have a 48lb jug in Trustworthy which I know is enough for > > > 2 people for 3 days. I am just planning on putting it in premeasured > > > sealed bags for better storage and was wondering about how much does > > > it actually take. > > > > > > Thank you, > > > Scott Waters > > > ______________________________ _________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > ------------------------- > > ______________________________ _________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 19:49:44 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:49:44 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb In-Reply-To: <20160816160256.30364.qmail@server268.com> References: <20160816160256.30364.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: <7a3bc0d1-ef52-4758-83bf-ee55f1a9a075@email.android.com> This is a useful read: https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.imca-int.com/media/225910/d1_david_cook.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiewMzJjcfOAhVJNSYKHTXJAv8QFghHMAw&usg=AFQjCNE9ccV5s_CoN9-bk_4UdOnUR2h4rQ Sean On August 16, 2016 10:02:56 AM MDT, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hey guys, Just doing a safety check. What is the rough amount of CO2 >sorb that is needed per occupant per day (normally measured in weight)? >I have a 48lb jug in Trustworthy which I know is enough for 2 people >for 3 days. I am just planning on putting it in premeasured sealed bags >for better storage and was wondering about how much does it actually >take. > >Thank you, >Scott Waters >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 22:25:01 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 21:25:01 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb Message-ID: <5retu9xddtxerh60va5xybsu.1471400701275@email.android.com> Cliff,We will know for sure aftet running some more tests, but we do know that Pisces VI was the perfect hull of all the Pisces and a similar Alvin version 1 hull was rated for 10,000 fsw. We will no longer be going to SwRI as there testing facility was recently down rated to 2,500psi. We are now going to Annapolis for Penn States testing facility.?Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Date: 08/16/2016 6:49 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb Scott, I note that you are shooting for 8000 fsw operating depth on Pisces VI but Busby table 4.1, page 83 sites operating depth of boat at 6500 fsw.? Has the boat been modified to get to 8000 ft or was this a error in the table? BTW, let me know when you plan to test the hull at SwRI in San Antonio, I use to work there.? I would love to attend the test and help any way I can. Regards Cliff On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 6:13 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Hank,unfortunately Scott would need a big escape pod for all the crew.If he had a fly out rov he could use it for gaining video footage ofhis dives. I think Scotts submarine hobby is getting out of hand. lol.Happy Birthday for the other day Scott.Alan Sent from my iPad On 17/08/2016, at 10:47 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,There is a solution for rescue at 1,000 feet,, escape pod :-) ? I think the DW has enough absorbent between the two scrubbers for 36 hr plus they always dive with a second DW on deck.? They throw all the absorbent away after every dive I am told. ?Hank On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 4:42 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Does anyone know much about the Deep Worker scrubbers?The new ones aren't cylindrical, they are an oblong shape that fits the contourof the subs hull either side of your legs. There are 2 of them with fans on the front.?I cant see how you would change out the absorbent during a dive as there would?not be much room when you are in there. Or do they hold the full amount in both of them.If this is so, I presume they run one at a time, so is the redundant scrubber sealedin any way prior to use?Alan ? Sent from my iPad On 17/08/2016, at 10:12 am, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: This is for Pisces VI. With rescue missions easily taking 2 to 3 days to assymble, I wanted the extra allowance. There is enough space in the cockpit to handle the extra sorb. On Trustworthy, it is a different story. Lol Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Date: 08/16/2016 5:03 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb I'm not sure how you're doing with your weight budget, but the Sodasorb weight really can become a space and weight issue when smaller boats go for compliance with the 72 hour rule. I know there's a competing product that's something like a pre-impregnated fabric instead of granules. Sorry, I can't recall the brand name. But it would be interesting to compare the weight and volume implications. Thanks, Alec On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff. I was also running the numbers on Pisces VI. We will have the following for 1 pilot and 3 observers for a 8 hour mission time and 5 day emergency use *400 cuft O2 outside hull emergency use (five 80cuft tanks) *160-81 cuft O2 inside hull for up to 8hr mission use (two 80cuft bottles allowing for full discharge) *144 lbs sodasorb emergency use (three 48lb jugs) *12 lbs sodasorb for up to 8hr mission use (two scrubbers loaded) Thank you, Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb >? Sent: Aug 16 '16 14:14 > >? Scott, ABS? uses? a value of 0.115 lbm CO2? generated per hour per >? occupant.? Sotasorb HP specification says it can absorb 41% CO2 by >? weight.? This comes out to 3.56 Persons-hours per pound of SodaSorb HP >? which is close the number Alec posted.? ABS rules call for full life >? support for 72 hours plus normal duty time.? If you assume normal duty >? time is 8 hours, then the life support system would need to last for >? 80 hours.? For one person this would give 22.5 lbs of SodaSorbHP and >? for two, 45 lbs for this duration. > >? Actual consumption rate is dependent on a lot of parameters, such as >? temperature, humidly, mass of occupants and design of scrubber to >? mention just a few. > >? Cliff > >? On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:02 AM, via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: > >? > Hey guys, Just doing a safety check. What is the rough amount of CO2 >? > sorb that is needed per occupant per day (normally measured in >? > weight)? I have a 48lb jug in Trustworthy which I know is enough for >? > 2 people for 3 days. I am just planning on putting it in premeasured >? > sealed bags for better storage and was wondering about how much does >? > it actually take. >? > >? > Thank you, >? > Scott Waters >? > ______________________________ _________________ >? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > >? ------------------------- >? ______________________________ _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 22:28:14 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 21:28:14 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb Message-ID: Mir 1 and 2 did that on Titanic with Jake the ROV. It's possible, but we deffenetly want a rescue sorce that is totally independent of the submarine.Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: 08/16/2016 5:48 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb Scott,maybe you could invest in a fly out rov with a rope cutting tool.I think in James Cameron's movie "Aliens of ?the Deep" they had a fly out rov.Plenty of little rovs at the Underwater intervention convention.Alan Sent from my iPad On 17/08/2016, at 10:37 am, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: And even more so 8,000 feet down where only 5 other operating submarines in the world can get to you and only a few ROV's can get to you. With Pisces VI we will have emergency rescue plans, but getting a ROV off a ship in the ocean, then loading on a cargo plane, then on a boat, then to the location of the accedent takes alot of time. Pisces III rescue extended them to the end of the 72 hour period and just about didn't make it out alive. I worry 5 days is enough, but any more starts to have major space problems inside the cockpit.Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: 08/16/2016 5:25 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb DNV-GL specify 4 days plus mission time. ABS 3 days.Graham Hawkes new "dragon" submersible has 24 hrs scrubbing time.This statistic ?isn't well advertised & you have to search in the faq to find it.I don't know how people come to their conclusions.Didn't the original k boats have no scrubbing & just come up after an hour?I guess it is largely depth dependant. If you are confident to be able to escapefrom your sub & aren't too deep, it is a different scenario than being 1000ftdown with no hope of escape.Alan? Sent from my iPad On 17/08/2016, at 10:03 am, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I'm not sure how you're doing with your weight budget, but the Sodasorb weight really can become a space and weight issue when smaller boats go for compliance with the 72 hour rule. I know there's a competing product that's something like a pre-impregnated fabric instead of granules. Sorry, I can't recall the brand name. But it would be interesting to compare the weight and volume implications. Thanks, Alec On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff. I was also running the numbers on Pisces VI. We will have the following for 1 pilot and 3 observers for a 8 hour mission time and 5 day emergency use *400 cuft O2 outside hull emergency use (five 80cuft tanks) *160-81 cuft O2 inside hull for up to 8hr mission use (two 80cuft bottles allowing for full discharge) *144 lbs sodasorb emergency use (three 48lb jugs) *12 lbs sodasorb for up to 8hr mission use (two scrubbers loaded) Thank you, Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb >? Sent: Aug 16 '16 14:14 > >? Scott, ABS? uses? a value of 0.115 lbm CO2? generated per hour per >? occupant.? Sotasorb HP specification says it can absorb 41% CO2 by >? weight.? This comes out to 3.56 Persons-hours per pound of SodaSorb HP >? which is close the number Alec posted.? ABS rules call for full life >? support for 72 hours plus normal duty time.? If you assume normal duty >? time is 8 hours, then the life support system would need to last for >? 80 hours.? For one person this would give 22.5 lbs of SodaSorbHP and >? for two, 45 lbs for this duration. > >? Actual consumption rate is dependent on a lot of parameters, such as >? temperature, humidly, mass of occupants and design of scrubber to >? mention just a few. > >? Cliff > >? On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:02 AM, via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: > >? > Hey guys, Just doing a safety check. What is the rough amount of CO2 >? > sorb that is needed per occupant per day (normally measured in >? > weight)? I have a 48lb jug in Trustworthy which I know is enough for >? > 2 people for 3 days. I am just planning on putting it in premeasured >? > sealed bags for better storage and was wondering about how much does >? > it actually take. >? > >? > Thank you, >? > Scott Waters >? > _______________________________________________ >? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >? ------------------------- >? _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 22:33:13 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 21:33:13 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb Message-ID: Haha. It's turned into a commercial venture. It outgrew the hobby stage when I built a 85'x38' shop with 18' ceilings and 7" thick concrete just for Pisces VI. I'm growing up to fast, I'm 30 now :(Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: 08/16/2016 6:13 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb Thanks Hank, unfortunately Scott would need a big escape pod for all the crew. If he had a fly out rov he could use it for gaining video footage of his dives. I think Scotts submarine hobby is getting out of hand. lol. Happy Birthday for the other day Scott. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 17/08/2016, at 10:47 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 16 22:34:34 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 21:34:34 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb Message-ID: Doesn't lithium hydroxide burst into flames when it comes into contact with water?Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: via Personal_Submersibles Date: 08/16/2016 6:32 PM (GMT-06:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb We'll be looking into Lithium Hydroxide for emergency use in P-VI as it is longer lasting per unit of volume, more efficient, and more temperature tolerant. It is also expensive by comparison. However, the sheer volume of material will be smaller, so easier to store. Vance -----Original Message----- From: via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Aug 16, 2016 3:55 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb Thanks Cliff. I was also running the numbers on Pisces VI. We will have the following for 1 pilot and 3 observers for a 8 hour mission time and 5 day emergency use *400 cuft O2 outside hull emergency use (five 80cuft tanks) *160-81 cuft O2 inside hull for up to 8hr mission use (two 80cuft bottles allowing for full discharge) *144 lbs sodasorb emergency use (three 48lb jugs) *12 lbs sodasorb for up to 8hr mission use (two scrubbers loaded) Thank you, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 17 00:01:09 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 22:01:09 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02b5c4d5-7954-4224-847f-73b9b8ec32da@email.android.com> You're thinking of Lithium metal, which reacts with water to PRODUCE Lithium Hydroxide, which is soluble. This reaction also produces hydrogen gas, which can ignite if the reaction is sufficiently exothermic. All elements in that group react with water (Lithium, Sodium, Potassium, etc.), increasingly energetically as you move down the column. Lithium Hydroxide reacts with Carbon Dioxide to produce Lithium Carbonate and water. Sean On August 16, 2016 8:34:34 PM MDT, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Doesn't lithium hydroxide burst into flames when it comes into contact >with water?Thanks,Scott Waters > > >Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > >-------- Original message -------- >From: via Personal_Submersibles >Date: 08/16/2016 6:32 PM (GMT-06:00) >To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb > >We'll be looking into Lithium Hydroxide for emergency use in P-VI as it >is longer lasting per unit of volume, more efficient, and more >temperature tolerant. It is also expensive by comparison. However, the >sheer volume of material will be smaller, so easier to store. >Vance > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Sent: Tue, Aug 16, 2016 3:55 pm >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb > >Thanks Cliff. I was also running the numbers on Pisces VI. We will have >the following for 1 pilot and 3 observers for a 8 hour mission time and >5 day emergency use >*400 cuft O2 outside hull emergency use (five 80cuft tanks) >*160-81 cuft O2 inside hull for up to 8hr mission use (two 80cuft >bottles allowing for full discharge) >*144 lbs sodasorb emergency use (three 48lb jugs) >*12 lbs sodasorb for up to 8hr mission use (two scrubbers loaded) > >Thank you, > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 17 00:09:08 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 23:09:08 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb Message-ID: Awesome. Thank you for that. Very good to know.-Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" Date: 08/16/2016 11:01 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb You're thinking of Lithium metal, which reacts with water to PRODUCE Lithium Hydroxide, which is soluble. This reaction also produces hydrogen gas, which can ignite if the reaction is sufficiently exothermic.? All elements in that group react with water (Lithium, Sodium, Potassium, etc.), increasingly energetically as you move down the column. Lithium Hydroxide reacts with Carbon Dioxide to produce Lithium Carbonate and water. Sean On August 16, 2016 8:34:34 PM MDT, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doesn't lithium hydroxide burst into flames when it comes into contact with water?Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: via Personal_Submersibles Date: 08/16/2016 6:32 PM (GMT-06:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb We'll be looking into Lithium Hydroxide for emergency use in P-VI as it is longer lasting per unit of volume, more efficient, and more temperature tolerant. It is also expensive by comparison. However, the sheer volume of material will be smaller, so easier to store. Vance -----Original Message----- From: via Personal_Submersibles To: P! ersonal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Aug 16, 2016 3:55 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb Thanks Cliff. I was also running the numbers on Pisces VI. We will have the following for 1 pilot and 3 observers for a 8 hour mission time and 5 day emergency use *400 cuft O2 outside hull emergency use (five 80cuft tanks) *160-81 cuft O2 inside hull for up to 8hr mission use (two 80cuft bottles allowing for full discharge) *144 lbs sodasorb emergency use (three 48lb jugs) *12 lbs sodasorb for up to 8hr mission use (two scrubbers loaded) Thank you, Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 17 03:23:20 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 03:23:20 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15697620c4b-1aad-4f40@webprd-m19.mail.aol.com> Don't tell the Navy. They use it by the ton. -----Original Message----- From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Aug 16, 2016 10:35 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb Doesn't lithium hydroxide burst into flames when it comes into contact with water? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: via Personal_Submersibles Date: 08/16/2016 6:32 PM (GMT-06:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb We'll be looking into Lithium Hydroxide for emergency use in P-VI as it is longer lasting per unit of volume, more efficient, and more temperature tolerant. It is also expensive by comparison. However, the sheer volume of material will be smaller, so easier to store. Vance -----Original Message----- From: via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Aug 16, 2016 3:55 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb Thanks Cliff. I was also running the numbers on Pisces VI. We will have the following for 1 pilot and 3 observers for a 8 hour mission time and 5 day emergency use *400 cuft O2 outside hull emergency use (five 80cuft tanks) *160-81 cuft O2 inside hull for up to 8hr mission use (two 80cuft bottles allowing for full discharge) *144 lbs sodasorb emergency use (three 48lb jugs) *12 lbs sodasorb for up to 8hr mission use (two scrubbers loaded) Thank you, _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 17 04:05:12 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 01:05:12 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb Message-ID: I think they use an amine solvent sytem to remove the CO2 and it's characteristic smell permeates ?everything. Keith T. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/17/16 12:23 AM (GMT-08:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb Don't tell the Navy. They use it by the ton. -----Original Message----- From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Aug 16, 2016 10:35 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb Doesn't lithium hydroxide burst into flames when it comes into contact with water? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: via Personal_Submersibles Date: 08/16/2016 6:32 PM (GMT-06:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb We'll be looking into Lithium Hydroxide for emergency use in P-VI as it is longer lasting per unit of volume, more efficient, and more temperature tolerant. It is also expensive by comparison. However, the sheer volume of material will be smaller, so easier to store. Vance -----Original Message----- From: via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Aug 16, 2016 3:55 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb Thanks Cliff. I was also running the numbers on Pisces VI. We will have the following for 1 pilot and 3 observers for a 8 hour mission time and 5 day emergency use *400 cuft O2 outside hull emergency use (five 80cuft tanks) *160-81 cuft O2 inside hull for up to 8hr mission use (two 80cuft bottles allowing for full discharge) *144 lbs sodasorb emergency use (three 48lb jugs) *12 lbs sodasorb for up to 8hr mission use (two scrubbers loaded) Thank you, _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 17 04:46:59 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 04:46:59 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15697aea0cd-43ff-4161@webprd-a46.mail.aol.com> As far as I know, the US and British Navies both still use LiOH, both active and passive (powered scrubbers and passive sheets for emergencies). -----Original Message----- From: k6fee via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Aug 17, 2016 4:05 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb I think they use an amine solvent sytem to remove the CO2 and it's characteristic smell permeates everything. Keith T. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/17/16 12:23 AM (GMT-08:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb Don't tell the Navy. They use it by the ton. -----Original Message----- From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Aug 16, 2016 10:35 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb Doesn't lithium hydroxide burst into flames when it comes into contact with water? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: via Personal_Submersibles Date: 08/16/2016 6:32 PM (GMT-06:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb We'll be looking into Lithium Hydroxide for emergency use in P-VI as it is longer lasting per unit of volume, more efficient, and more temperature tolerant. It is also expensive by comparison. However, the sheer volume of material will be smaller, so easier to store. Vance -----Original Message----- From: via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Aug 16, 2016 3:55 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Sorb Thanks Cliff. I was also running the numbers on Pisces VI. We will have the following for 1 pilot and 3 observers for a 8 hour mission time and 5 day emergency use *400 cuft O2 outside hull emergency use (five 80cuft tanks) *160-81 cuft O2 inside hull for up to 8hr mission use (two 80cuft bottles allowing for full discharge) *144 lbs sodasorb emergency use (three 48lb jugs) *12 lbs sodasorb for up to 8hr mission use (two scrubbers loaded) Thank you, _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 17 15:00:00 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 19:00:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gyro turn indicator test References: <1655478943.16219105.1471460400498.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1655478943.16219105.1471460400498.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,Just got back from a test dive--I was testing my gyro turn indicator. ?It works for what it was intended but not for staying on coarse in a sub. ?At least not in my sub. ?The problem is, you have to keep a very close eye on the indicator and it reacts very quickly. ?I need either a gyro compass or a flux gate compass. ?With a compass, you can go off coarse and you have a reference number to return to. ?You will go off track but at least maintain your direction. ? I only did a quick test since I only had Texas style visibility as expected for August.Hank? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 17 17:09:07 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 21:09:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma the tug boat References: <282301308.16871373.1471468147577.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <282301308.16871373.1471468147577.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I almost forgot, today I towed a broken boat to the dock with Gamma. ?It was pretty fun lolHank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 18 01:15:55 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 22:15:55 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma the tug boat In-Reply-To: <282301308.16871373.1471468147577.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <282301308.16871373.1471468147577.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <282301308.16871373.1471468147577.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001d1f90f$9a0d8ce0$ce28a6a0$@telus.net> Too bad you don't have a photo, Hank. That would be fun to see. Now the folks you helped out have a terrific story to tell. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 2:09 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma the tug boat I almost forgot, today I towed a broken boat to the dock with Gamma. It was pretty fun lol Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 18 10:42:29 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 14:42:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GPR pressure hull References: <1040116921.7669680.1471531349323.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1040116921.7669680.1471531349323.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Sean,I have been thinking about GPR sphere's and wonder at what point they make sense, if ever. ?When you consider the huge cost for foam buoyancy and factor that into the total cost. ?If a sub can be built with little or no need for additional buoyancy, then ?the cost of GPR does not make sense. ?My sub Elementary 3000 is at that limit. ?The cost for foam buoyancy is under 10K, but if I want to go deeper it gets crazy pretty fast. ?So it makes me wonder if a GPR sphere makes more sense ? than exotic steel or thicker 516-70. ? ?To figure this out I have to start with a sample depth rating for a GPR sphere. ?Could you run a couple samples through your program for me? ?I would like to compare 50 inch ID ?at 2 inches thick and 4 inches thick. ?I had a chance to look at a GPR sub (Wrangler built by ISE) in Nelson of all places. ?I was amazed really, the hull is about 2 inches thick with no rings and the two aluminum dome seats sealed ?right on the GPR ?at each end of the hull.The dome on Gamma is the spare for the Wrangler sub. ?The people selling it now claim it could be certified to 2,000 feet, that is quite impressive for GPR if it is true.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 18 13:21:56 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 17:21:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: wrangler submarine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1162233290.16429539.1471540916605.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Here is a picture of the GRP submarine built by ISE. ? Pretty nifty little sub, it could also work as an ROV?Hank On Thursday, August 18, 2016 11:18 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2016-08-18 at 11.18 AM.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 24613 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 18 20:38:40 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 18:38:40 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GPR pressure hull In-Reply-To: <1040116921.7669680.1471531349323.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1040116921.7669680.1471531349323.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1040116921.7669680.1471531349323.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank. I am well acquainted with the Wrangler - I actually did a study on that sub in the late 90s for a potential refit for the Canadian Amphibious Search Team, but it didn't end up making sense at the time. Fiber reinforced composites are tricky when it comes to analyzing their performance in comparison to quasi-isotropic materials like steel alloys. Composites are strongly anisotropic in single layers, so you need to lay up multiple layers in different directions in order to approximate isotropic behaviour, but then you introduce additional failure modes: fiber shear failure, fiber buckling failure, matrix failure, interlayer delamination, and of course complete brittle failure in shear. In general, you can estimate the strength of a fiber reinforced composite material as a weighted average of material properties in proportion to their relative volume fractions, and this behaviour holds true up to the first failure or yield of the first component to do so. The problem is reliably predicting when these failures will occur. There are computer programs out there that will simulate composite performance, where you enter parameters like number of layers, principal fiber lay direction in each layer, matrix and fiber materials, volume fractions, average continuous fiber length, etc., and it will spit out the failure modes and associated stresses - I have done such analyses on simple parts - flat plates, beams and so forth, but a spherical layup I find intimidating. It is so difficult to obtain theoretically perfect construction in composites that destructive testing is generally recommended to validate predicted failures, and this is reflected in the ABS rules for suitable hull materials. Essentially, they say that alternative materials will be considered on a case-by-case basis, but that results from tests to failure of similar hulls may be necessary to validate performance. If you, for example, have a particular glass fiber of specified mechanical properties, and wish to combine it with a polyester resin of particular mechanical properties at a 60%/40% volume ratio, there are still several ways of doing that that will result in a wide range of possible failure strengths of the finished composite. This is not to say that GRP or other fiber reinforced composites are not good materials for pressure hulls - indeed, they can be extremely efficient, but each composite part design is an exercise in custom engineering which does not lend itself well to "rules of thumb", or in any case, not to the algorithmic design methodology used by my software. If you are interested in composite construction, you may wish to consult someone with more expertise in that area, or alternatively, if you think you can be consistent in your layup process, build a dozen identical spheres, test ten of them to failure, and then you have a statistically valid sample to give the other two a depth rating. This is, I'm afraid, as much detail as I am comfortable providing. You can get a ballpark estimate by using that weighted average of material properties in proportion to volume fraction, and then using those numbers to analyze as if it were an isotropic and tough material, but don't expect it to behave as such when you're anywhere near the performance limits. I certainly will not warrant my software for the purpose. Sean On August 18, 2016 8:42:29 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Sean,I have been thinking about GPR sphere's and wonder at what point >they make sense, if ever. ?When you consider the huge cost for foam >buoyancy and factor that into the total cost. ?If a sub can be built >with little or no need for additional buoyancy, then ?the cost of GPR >does not make sense. ?My sub Elementary 3000 is at that limit. ?The >cost for foam buoyancy is under 10K, but if I want to go deeper it gets >crazy pretty fast. ?So it makes me wonder if a GPR sphere makes more >sense ? than exotic steel or thicker 516-70. ? ?To figure this out I >have to start with a sample depth rating for a GPR sphere. ?Could you >run a couple samples through your program for me? ?I would like to >compare 50 inch ID ?at 2 inches thick and 4 inches thick. ?I had a >chance to look at a GPR sub (Wrangler built by ISE) in Nelson of all >places. ?I was amazed really, the hull is about 2 inches thick with no >rings and the two aluminum dome seats sealed ?right on the GPR ?at each >end of the hull.The dome on Gamma is the spare for the Wrangler sub. >?The people selling it now claim it could be certified to 2,000 feet, >that is quite impressive for GPR if it is true.Hank > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 18 21:05:29 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 01:05:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GPR pressure hull In-Reply-To: References: <1040116921.7669680.1471531349323.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1040116921.7669680.1471531349323.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1161143025.19086661.1471568729280.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> In addition Hank,there is a 4 x safety factor for plastics where human life is concerned.Other issues are the testing of the resins prior to fiber glassing & maintaininga constant resin to fiber ratio. Nuytco looked at it & Phil said it was either 3 or 5 times more expensive.Graham Hawkes "Dragon" submersible is composite & goes to 400ft. Alan From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, August 19, 2016 12:38 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GPR pressure hull Hi Hank. I am well acquainted with the Wrangler - I actually did a study on that sub in the late 90s for a potential refit for the Canadian Amphibious Search Team, but it didn't end up making sense at the time.Fiber reinforced composites are tricky when it comes to analyzing their performance in comparison to quasi-isotropic materials like steel alloys.? Composites are strongly anisotropic in single layers, so you need to lay up multiple layers in different directions in order to approximate isotropic behaviour, but then you introduce additional failure modes: fiber shear failure, fiber buckling failure, matrix failure, interlayer delamination, and of course complete brittle failure in shear.In general, you can estimate the strength of a fiber reinforced composite material as a weighted average of material properties in proportion to their relative volume fractions, and this behaviour holds true up to the first failure or yield of the first component to do so. The problem is reliably predicting when these failures will occur. There are computer programs out there that will simulate composite performance, where you enter parameters like number of layers, principal fiber lay direction in each layer, matrix and fiber materials, volume fractions, average continuous fiber length, etc., and it will spit out the failure modes and associated stresses - I have done such analyses on simple parts - flat plates, beams and so forth, but a spherical layup I find intimidating. It is so difficult to obtain theoretically perfect construction in composites that destructive testing is generally recommended to validate predicted failures, and this is reflected in the ABS rules for suitable hull materials. Essentially, they say that alternative materials will be considered on a case-by-case basis, but that results from tests to failure of similar hulls may be necessary to validate performance.If you, for example, have a particular glass fiber of specified mechanical properties, and wish to combine it with a polyester resin of particular mechanical properties at a 60%/40% volume ratio, there are still several ways of doing that that will result in a wide range of possible failure strengths of the finished composite.? This is not to say that GRP or other fiber reinforced composites are not good materials for pressure hulls - indeed, they can be extremely efficient, but each composite part design is an exercise in custom engineering which does not lend itself well to "rules of thumb", or in any case, not to the algorithmic design methodology used by my software.If you are interested in composite construction, you may wish to consult someone with more expertise in that area, or alternatively, if you think you can be consistent in your layup process, build a dozen identical spheres, test ten of them to failure, and then you have a statistically valid sample to give the other two a depth rating.This is, I'm afraid, as much detail as I am comfortable providing.? You can get a ballpark estimate by using that weighted average of material properties in proportion to volume fraction, and then using those numbers to analyze as if it were an isotropic and tough material, but don't expect it to behave as such when you're anywhere near the performance limits.? I certainly will not warrant my software for the purpose.Sean On August 18, 2016 8:42:29 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean,I have been thinking about GPR sphere's and wonder at what point they make sense, if ever. ?When you consider the huge cost for foam buoyancy and factor that into the total cost. ?If a sub can be built with little or no need for additional buoyancy, then ?the cost of GPR does not make sense. ?My sub Elementary 3000 is at that limit. ?The cost for foam buoyancy is under 10K, but if I want to go deeper it gets crazy pretty fast. ?So it makes me wonder if a GPR sphere makes more sense ? than exotic steel or thicker 516-70. ? ?To figure this out I have to start with a sample depth rating for a GPR sphere. ?Could you run a couple samples through your program for me? &nbs! p;Iwould like to compare 50 inch ID ?at 2 inches thick and 4 inches thick. ?I had a chance to look at a GPR sub (Wrangler built by ISE) in Nelson of all places. ?I was amazed really, the hull is about 2 inches thick with no rings and the two aluminum dome seats sealed ?right on the GPR ?at each end of the hull.The dome on Gamma is the spare for the Wrangler sub. ?The people selling it now claim it could be certified to 2,000 feet, that is quite impressive for GPR if it is true.Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 18 21:13:02 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 01:13:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] GPR pressure hull In-Reply-To: References: <1040116921.7669680.1471531349323.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1040116921.7669680.1471531349323.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <86619727.17257860.1471569182497.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Sean,Thank you for the great?explanation. ?Also I had a feeling you could be familiar with the Wrangler sub, since you worked at ISE. ?Since posting the question to you, I determined that the cost of a GRP hull is quite cheap material wise, in fact it is cheaper than steel, (maybe) ?I concluded that it must be engineering and fabrication that make it expensive. ?On another note, I came across a test study of concrete spheres both 16 in dia and 66 inch dia. ?The wall thickness worked out to 4.16 inches on the 66 inch spheres. ? I think 18 spheres were tested to 4,200 feet. Don't hold me to the figures, it was a lot of information to digest. ?The interesting thing is that the spheres were 10,000 psi concrete, hardly high performance. ?The other interesting thing is that an opening up to 40 percent of the area is not detrimental, in fact no problem. ?The study explains that the opening angle must intersect with the centre of the sphere as the important feature. ?Also spheres were built as hemispheres glued together with epoxy. ?Even that proved to work well in failure events. ?The epoxy held up with no problem, and I was surprised that the hemispheres only had to fit together with a better that 1\8 inch gap. ?Amazing! ?If you want the study i can send it to you or a link.Thank you again, that was a great explanation, and I understood it lol.Hank On Thursday, August 18, 2016 6:39 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank. I am well acquainted with the Wrangler - I actually did a study on that sub in the late 90s for a potential refit for the Canadian Amphibious Search Team, but it didn't end up making sense at the time.Fiber reinforced composites are tricky when it comes to analyzing their performance in comparison to quasi-isotropic materials like steel alloys.? Composites are strongly anisotropic in single layers, so you need to lay up multiple layers in different directions in order to approximate isotropic behaviour, but then you introduce additional failure modes: fiber shear failure, fiber buckling failure, matrix failure, interlayer delamination, and of course complete brittle failure in shear.In general, you can estimate the strength of a fiber reinforced composite material as a weighted average of material properties in proportion to their relative volume fractions, and this behaviour holds true up to the first failure or yield of the first component to do so. The problem is reliably predicting when these failures will occur. There are computer programs out there that will simulate composite performance, where you enter parameters like number of layers, principal fiber lay direction in each layer, matrix and fiber materials, volume fractions, average continuous fiber length, etc., and it will spit out the failure modes and associated stresses - I have done such analyses on simple parts - flat plates, beams and so forth, but a spherical layup I find intimidating. It is so difficult to obtain theoretically perfect construction in composites that destructive testing is generally recommended to validate predicted failures, and this is reflected in the ABS rules for suitable hull materials. Essentially, they say that alternative materials will be considered on a case-by-case basis, but that results from tests to failure of similar hulls may be necessary to validate performance.If you, for example, have a particular glass fiber of specified mechanical properties, and wish to combine it with a polyester resin of particular mechanical properties at a 60%/40% volume ratio, there are still several ways of doing that that will result in a wide range of possible failure strengths of the finished composite.? This is not to say that GRP or other fiber reinforced composites are not good materials for pressure hulls - indeed, they can be extremely efficient, but each composite part design is an exercise in custom engineering which does not lend itself well to "rules of thumb", or in any case, not to the algorithmic design methodology used by my software.If you are interested in composite construction, you may wish to consult someone with more expertise in that area, or alternatively, if you think you can be consistent in your layup process, build a dozen identical spheres, test ten of them to failure, and then you have a statistically valid sample to give the other two a depth rating.This is, I'm afraid, as much detail as I am comfortable providing.? You can get a ballpark estimate by using that weighted average of material properties in proportion to volume fraction, and then using those numbers to analyze as if it were an isotropic and tough material, but don't expect it to behave as such when you're anywhere near the performance limits.? I certainly will not warrant my software for the purpose.Sean On August 18, 2016 8:42:29 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean,I have been thinking about GPR sphere's and wonder at what point they make sense, if ever. ?When you consider the huge cost for foam buoyancy and factor that into the total cost. ?If a sub can be built with little or no need for additional buoyancy, then ?the cost of GPR does not make sense. ?My sub Elementary 3000 is at that limit. ?The cost for foam buoyancy is under 10K, but if I want to go deeper it gets crazy pretty fast. ?So it makes me wonder if a GPR sphere makes more sense ? than exotic steel or thicker 516-70. ? ?To figure this out I have to start with a sample depth rating for a GPR sphere. ?Could you run a couple samples through your program for me? &nbs! p;Iwould like to compare 50 inch ID ?at 2 inches thick and 4 inches thick. ?I had a chance to look at a GPR sub (Wrangler built by ISE) in Nelson of all places. ?I was amazed really, the hull is about 2 inches thick with no rings and the two aluminum dome seats sealed ?right on the GPR ?at each end of the hull.The dome on Gamma is the spare for the Wrangler sub. ?The people selling it now claim it could be certified to 2,000 feet, that is quite impressive for GPR if it is true.Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 18 13:21:56 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 17:21:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: wrangler submarine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1162233290.16429539.1471540916605.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Here is a picture of the GRP submarine built by ISE. ? Pretty nifty little sub, it could also work as an ROV?Hank On Thursday, August 18, 2016 11:18 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2016-08-18 at 11.18 AM.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 24613 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 19 08:50:24 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jim via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 07:50:24 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: <4F30962637699C08.493e5013-a472-4a9f-b1b0-212ba264b2f4@mail.outlook.com> References: <4F30962637699C08.493e5013-a472-4a9f-b1b0-212ba264b2f4@mail.outlook.com> Message-ID: <0A963468-C619-4BA8-A01A-485A94DD53D9@aol.com> Brian, To view the pics I had to scroll all the way to the bottom of the email (past the repetition of previous emails) to see the pics. This is on an iPad. Jim T Sent from my iPad > On Aug 14, 2016, at 4:20 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I'm missing the pictures that are being referenced. Are links being scrubbed? Thanks. > > Brian > > Get Outlook for Android > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 20 01:57:49 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 17:57:49 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: <0A963468-C619-4BA8-A01A-485A94DD53D9@aol.com> References: <4F30962637699C08.493e5013-a472-4a9f-b1b0-212ba264b2f4@mail.outlook.com> <0A963468-C619-4BA8-A01A-485A94DD53D9@aol.com> Message-ID: <99C60AAF-6A1E-4154-857C-585454D700D2@yahoo.com> It's a tough life Jim! once upon a time someone would have to develop the photos & post them to you. Then you would have to walk all the way to the letterbox to get them. Glad you have learnt to scroll on your new Ipad! Jokes aside, a good point; maybe start a new email under the same topic if the thread is getting long & you are posting attachments. They are easy to miss way down there. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 20/08/2016, at 12:50 am, Jim via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Brian, > To view the pics I had to scroll all the way to the bottom of the email (past the repetition of previous emails) to see the pics. This is on an iPad. > Jim T > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Aug 14, 2016, at 4:20 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> I'm missing the pictures that are being referenced. Are links being scrubbed? Thanks. >> >> Brian >> >> Get Outlook for Android >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 20 02:34:32 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 18:34:32 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on a Zodiac carrier was AW: Maynard's sub boat In-Reply-To: <99C60AAF-6A1E-4154-857C-585454D700D2@yahoo.com> References: <4F30962637699C08.493e5013-a472-4a9f-b1b0-212ba264b2f4@mail.outlook.com> <0A963468-C619-4BA8-A01A-485A94DD53D9@aol.com> <99C60AAF-6A1E-4154-857C-585454D700D2@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sorry Jim, didn't notice you were replying to Brian's inability to find the posts. I should have abused you privately :) Alan Sent from my iPad > On 20/08/2016, at 5:57 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > It's a tough life Jim! > once upon a time someone would have to develop the photos & post > them to you. Then you would have to walk all the way to the letterbox > to get them. Glad you have learnt to scroll on your new Ipad! > Jokes aside, a good point; maybe start a new email under the same topic > if the thread is getting long & you are posting attachments. They are easy > to miss way down there. > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 20/08/2016, at 12:50 am, Jim via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Brian, >> To view the pics I had to scroll all the way to the bottom of the email (past the repetition of previous emails) to see the pics. This is on an iPad. >> Jim T >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On Aug 14, 2016, at 4:20 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> I'm missing the pictures that are being referenced. Are links being scrubbed? Thanks. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> Get Outlook for Android >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 20 06:16:06 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Petar Topljak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 12:16:06 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 1-ATM design Message-ID: Hi everyone, My name is Petar and I am coming from Rijeka, Croatia. I am designing 1-ATM one man submersible as a project for one of my subjects at my university. The idea is to design a pressure hull that can safely whitstand pressure at 150 meters. Procedure is to design submersible according to ABS (or ASME or any else classification company) rules, create model using 3d modelling software and do a finite element analysis of the model. The problems I ran into are in using the spreadsheet, as there are some parameters that are not defined in the ABS rules, or I am not able to find them or understand them due to my english skills, + we use metric system, so changing creates additional problems. I understand the classic questions asked about the lobes and coefficients (eta), but i had issues with Tw, Lw Lf and tf parametres - "mail3 stiffener.png" am I doing it right ? I am also sending you screenshots of my sheet, so you can check it if you like and alert me for any possible mistakes. Thank You in advance, Petar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mail1.png Type: image/png Size: 62491 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mail2.png Type: image/png Size: 90747 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mail3.png Type: image/png Size: 59853 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mail3 sitffener.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 42101 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 20 07:36:11 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Petar Topljak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 13:36:11 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 1-ATM design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Another question is regarding the parametre Ls, or centre to centre spacing of stiffeners, since due to design - portrusion for tower is 850 mm wide but i cannot place stiffeners exactly at the edge of portrusion, so I offseted them 100 mm from opening (this is also questionable). So now I have 2 different spacings between stiffeners, and I wonder which one to use, my guess would be the bigger one. Thank you in advance, Petar 2016-08-20 12:16 GMT+02:00 Petar Topljak : > Hi everyone, > > My name is Petar and I am coming from Rijeka, Croatia. I am designing > 1-ATM one man submersible as a project for one of my subjects at my > university. > > The idea is to design a pressure hull that can safely whitstand pressure > at 150 meters. Procedure is to design submersible according to ABS (or ASME > or any else classification company) rules, create model using 3d modelling > software and do a finite element analysis of the model. > > The problems I ran into are in using the spreadsheet, as there are some > parameters that are not defined in the ABS rules, or I am not able to find > them or understand them due to my english skills, + we use metric system, > so changing creates additional problems. > > > I understand the classic questions asked about the lobes and coefficients > (eta), but i had issues with Tw, Lw Lf and tf parametres - "mail3 > stiffener.png" am I doing it right ? > > I am also sending you screenshots of my sheet, so you can check it if you > like and alert me for any possible mistakes. > > Thank You in advance, Petar > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: trup solid.png Type: image/png Size: 114101 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SOLID REBRA.png Type: image/png Size: 92982 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 20 07:56:12 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 07:56:12 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 1-ATM design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Peter, Welcome, and I wish I'd had that assignment in college! The blue cells are calculated, but for that to happen you need to populate the white ones. For example on your first screen shot, the material properties in column D have not been entered. Best, Alec On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 6:16 AM, Petar Topljak via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi everyone, > > My name is Petar and I am coming from Rijeka, Croatia. I am designing > 1-ATM one man submersible as a project for one of my subjects at my > university. > > The idea is to design a pressure hull that can safely whitstand pressure > at 150 meters. Procedure is to design submersible according to ABS (or ASME > or any else classification company) rules, create model using 3d modelling > software and do a finite element analysis of the model. > > The problems I ran into are in using the spreadsheet, as there are some > parameters that are not defined in the ABS rules, or I am not able to find > them or understand them due to my english skills, + we use metric system, > so changing creates additional problems. > > > I understand the classic questions asked about the lobes and coefficients > (eta), but i had issues with Tw, Lw Lf and tf parametres - "mail3 > stiffener.png" am I doing it right ? > > I am also sending you screenshots of my sheet, so you can check it if you > like and alert me for any possible mistakes. > > Thank You in advance, Petar > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 20 08:05:50 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Petar Topljak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 14:05:50 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 1-ATM design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Alec, As I understanded that, the D cell is there for another section of different diametre, my design has only one D0 - 1800 mm . I also have issues with ABS rules as they are made according to imperial system, It would be desirable to have the calculations in my assignment in metric system. Thank You for quick response; Petar 2016-08-20 13:56 GMT+02:00 Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > Hi Peter, > > Welcome, and I wish I'd had that assignment in college! The blue cells are > calculated, but for that to happen you need to populate the white ones. For > example on your first screen shot, the material properties in column D have > not been entered. > > > Best, > > Alec > > On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 6:16 AM, Petar Topljak via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi everyone, >> >> My name is Petar and I am coming from Rijeka, Croatia. I am designing >> 1-ATM one man submersible as a project for one of my subjects at my >> university. >> >> The idea is to design a pressure hull that can safely whitstand pressure >> at 150 meters. Procedure is to design submersible according to ABS (or ASME >> or any else classification company) rules, create model using 3d modelling >> software and do a finite element analysis of the model. >> >> The problems I ran into are in using the spreadsheet, as there are some >> parameters that are not defined in the ABS rules, or I am not able to find >> them or understand them due to my english skills, + we use metric system, >> so changing creates additional problems. >> >> >> I understand the classic questions asked about the lobes and coefficients >> (eta), but i had issues with Tw, Lw Lf and tf parametres - "mail3 >> stiffener.png" am I doing it right ? >> >> I am also sending you screenshots of my sheet, so you can check it if you >> like and alert me for any possible mistakes. >> >> Thank You in advance, Petar >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 20 08:25:17 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 08:25:17 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 1-ATM design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Basically the idea was to make each column a successive iteration of design. What you do is for example copy all the values in column C into D and start changing them there. I agree with you a metric version would be nice, but it's just this way because the starting point was a book in imperial and initially this was just something I did for my own use so local by definition. On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 8:05 AM, Petar Topljak via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Alec, > > As I understanded that, the D cell is there for another section of > different diametre, my design has only one D0 - 1800 mm . > I also have issues with ABS rules as they are made according to imperial > system, It would be desirable to have the calculations in my assignment in > metric system. > > Thank You for quick response; Petar > > 2016-08-20 13:56 GMT+02:00 Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > >> Hi Peter, >> >> Welcome, and I wish I'd had that assignment in college! The blue cells >> are calculated, but for that to happen you need to populate the white ones. >> For example on your first screen shot, the material properties in column D >> have not been entered. >> >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 6:16 AM, Petar Topljak via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> My name is Petar and I am coming from Rijeka, Croatia. I am designing >>> 1-ATM one man submersible as a project for one of my subjects at my >>> university. >>> >>> The idea is to design a pressure hull that can safely whitstand pressure >>> at 150 meters. Procedure is to design submersible according to ABS (or ASME >>> or any else classification company) rules, create model using 3d modelling >>> software and do a finite element analysis of the model. >>> >>> The problems I ran into are in using the spreadsheet, as there are some >>> parameters that are not defined in the ABS rules, or I am not able to find >>> them or understand them due to my english skills, + we use metric system, >>> so changing creates additional problems. >>> >>> >>> I understand the classic questions asked about the lobes and >>> coefficients (eta), but i had issues with Tw, Lw Lf and tf parametres - >>> "mail3 stiffener.png" am I doing it right ? >>> >>> I am also sending you screenshots of my sheet, so you can check it if >>> you like and alert me for any possible mistakes. >>> >>> Thank You in advance, Petar >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 20 08:31:48 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 00:31:48 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 1-ATM design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Petar, have you had a look at DNV-GL? https://rules.dnvgl.com/ServiceDocuments/dnvgl/#!/industry/1/Maritime/5/DNV%20GL%20rules%20for%20classification:%20Underwater%20technology%20(RU-UWT) They use metric. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 21/08/2016, at 12:05 am, Petar Topljak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alec, > > As I understanded that, the D cell is there for another section of different diametre, my design has only one D0 - 1800 mm . > I also have issues with ABS rules as they are made according to imperial system, It would be desirable to have the calculations in my assignment in metric system. > > Thank You for quick response; Petar > > 2016-08-20 13:56 GMT+02:00 Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles : >> Hi Peter, >> >> Welcome, and I wish I'd had that assignment in college! The blue cells are calculated, but for that to happen you need to populate the white ones. For example on your first screen shot, the material properties in column D have not been entered. >> >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >>> On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 6:16 AM, Petar Topljak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> My name is Petar and I am coming from Rijeka, Croatia. I am designing 1-ATM one man submersible as a project for one of my subjects at my university. >>> >>> The idea is to design a pressure hull that can safely whitstand pressure at 150 meters. Procedure is to design submersible according to ABS (or ASME or any else classification company) rules, create model using 3d modelling software and do a finite element analysis of the model. >>> >>> The problems I ran into are in using the spreadsheet, as there are some parameters that are not defined in the ABS rules, or I am not able to find them or understand them due to my english skills, + we use metric system, so changing creates additional problems. >>> >>> >>> I understand the classic questions asked about the lobes and coefficients (eta), but i had issues with Tw, Lw Lf and tf parametres - "mail3 stiffener.png" am I doing it right ? >>> >>> I am also sending you screenshots of my sheet, so you can check it if you like and alert me for any possible mistakes. >>> >>> Thank You in advance, Petar >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 20 08:32:32 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 06:32:32 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 1-ATM design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9ca95d14-ba0f-4669-b4d3-52eb3bc8eefd@email.android.com> There is nothing specific to imperial / US standard units about the equations given in the ABS rules. They work with any self-consistent set of units, and in fact my own software tracks dimensionality using MKS / SI units exclusively. Sean On August 20, 2016 6:05:50 AM MDT, Petar Topljak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi Alec, > >As I understanded that, the D cell is there for another section of >different diametre, my design has only one D0 - 1800 mm . >I also have issues with ABS rules as they are made according to >imperial >system, It would be desirable to have the calculations in my assignment >in >metric system. > >Thank You for quick response; Petar > >2016-08-20 13:56 GMT+02:00 Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > >> Hi Peter, >> >> Welcome, and I wish I'd had that assignment in college! The blue >cells are >> calculated, but for that to happen you need to populate the white >ones. For >> example on your first screen shot, the material properties in column >D have >> not been entered. >> >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 6:16 AM, Petar Topljak via >Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> My name is Petar and I am coming from Rijeka, Croatia. I am >designing >>> 1-ATM one man submersible as a project for one of my subjects at my >>> university. >>> >>> The idea is to design a pressure hull that can safely whitstand >pressure >>> at 150 meters. Procedure is to design submersible according to ABS >(or ASME >>> or any else classification company) rules, create model using 3d >modelling >>> software and do a finite element analysis of the model. >>> >>> The problems I ran into are in using the spreadsheet, as there are >some >>> parameters that are not defined in the ABS rules, or I am not able >to find >>> them or understand them due to my english skills, + we use metric >system, >>> so changing creates additional problems. >>> >>> >>> I understand the classic questions asked about the lobes and >coefficients >>> (eta), but i had issues with Tw, Lw Lf and tf parametres - "mail3 >>> stiffener.png" am I doing it right ? >>> >>> I am also sending you screenshots of my sheet, so you can check it >if you >>> like and alert me for any possible mistakes. >>> >>> Thank You in advance, Petar >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 20 08:51:50 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jim via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 07:51:50 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 1-ATM design In-Reply-To: <9ca95d14-ba0f-4669-b4d3-52eb3bc8eefd@email.android.com> References: <9ca95d14-ba0f-4669-b4d3-52eb3bc8eefd@email.android.com> Message-ID: <6271F90E-EECB-4E85-8398-DEAE96D6B178@aol.com> Hello Peter, Welcome to the group. Could you add a column containing the appropriate conversion formulae to render the values in metric? Jim Sent from my iPad > On Aug 20, 2016, at 7:32 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > There is nothing specific to imperial / US standard units about the equations given in the ABS rules. They work with any self-consistent set of units, and in fact my own software tracks dimensionality using MKS / SI units exclusively. > > Sean > > >> On August 20, 2016 6:05:50 AM MDT, Petar Topljak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hi Alec, >> >> As I understanded that, the D cell is there for another section of different diametre, my design has only one D0 - 1800 mm . >> I also have issues with ABS rules as they are made according to imperial system, It would be desirable to have the calculations in my assignment in metric system. >> >> Thank You for quick response; Petar >> >> 2016-08-20 13:56 GMT+02:00 Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles : >>> Hi Peter, >>> >>> Welcome, and I wish I'd had that assignment in college! The blue cells are calculated, but for that to happen you need to populate the white ones. For example on your first screen shot, the material properties in column D have not been entered. >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>>> On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 6:16 AM, Petar Topljak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Hi everyone, >>>> >>>> My name is Petar and I am coming from Rijeka, Croatia. I am designing 1-ATM one man submersible as a project for one of my subjects at my university. >>>> >>>> The idea is to design a pressure hull that can safely whitstand pressure at 150 meters. Procedure is to design submersible according to ABS (or ASME or any else classification company) rules, create model using 3d modelling software and do a finite element analysis of the model. >>>> >>>> The problems I ran into are in using the spreadsheet, as there are some parameters that are not defined in the ABS rules, or I am not able to find them or understand them due to my english skills, + we use metric system, so changing creates additional problems. >>>> >>>> >>>> I understand the classic questions asked about the lobes and coefficients (eta), but i had issues with Tw, Lw Lf and tf parametres - "mail3 stiffener.png" am I doing it right ? >>>> >>>> I am also sending you screenshots of my sheet, so you can check it if you like and alert me for any possible mistakes. >>>> >>>> Thank You in advance, Petar >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 22 12:31:10 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 16:31:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <115780542.301593.1471883470716@mail.yahoo.com> Hi guys,?I have forwarded a page with mechanical properties of Douglas Fir wood in this email. ?There is a?rating for compressive strength and it has a little f in the?description. ?Not sure how to interpret that. ?Can I get an opinion on that. ?I need to know the compressive strength in psi. ?This could be a cheap form of buoyancy. ?I would make a glulam ?then fibreglass the exterior to waterproof the block. ?Of coarse as always i would make a sample and put it in my large pressure chamber.Thank you in advanceHank On Monday, August 22, 2016 10:24 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: Douglas-Fir | The Wood Database - Lumber Identification ... http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/softwoods/douglas-fir/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 22 13:07:15 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 19:07:15 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <115780542.301593.1471883470716@mail.yahoo.com> References: <115780542.301593.1471883470716@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: hello Hank, nice idea. Actually for my shell, I have tested red and yellow cedar, very light weight wood used for wooden kayaks, and on my sub as outer shell, covered by primer monocomponent polyurethane resin, then fiberglass/polyester composite, and it holds reasonably well (at least down to 50m). For buoyancy gains, I would just coat the piece of wood (with round edges) with the primer layer of PU resin which is not as strong as glassfiber/polyester, but flexible to accommodate the potential wood compression. BTW once you start using this resin, you can t stop (called G4 or Gravithane 2 in France). It contains solvents and unreticulated polymer initially, so when you spread it on porous stuff like wood it penetrates the material before the solvent dries and the polymer reticulates. So the bond is very good, it will keep water out, and you can glue wood pieces together like this. You can even strengthen the wood by penetrating the first few mm on surface by diluting the resin first with acetone for a first layer so it penetrates even better. But it does the same on skin so do wear gloves if you do not want bionic plasticized hands for weeks afterwards... the other issue is that unlike dual component resins it expires a few months after opening (and store the bottles upside down and always clean the tank's cap if you want to open it again). my shell probably has a density of 0.7g/cc overall due to the glass fiber and resins, when the wood is probably around 0.4g/cc If I were to go for pure buoyancy tanks, I d probably end up somewhere around 0.5g/cc which is comparable to the deep trawl buoys. To check it holds pressure for my max depth of 120m, I cut a 5 square centimeter piece and walked on it. did not compress. regards antoine On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 6:31 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi guys, > I have forwarded a page with mechanical properties of Douglas Fir wood in > this email. There is a rating for compressive strength and it has a little > f in the description. Not sure how to interpret that. Can I get an > opinion on that. I need to know the compressive strength in psi. This > could be a cheap form of buoyancy. I would make a glulam then fibreglass > the exterior to waterproof the block. Of coarse as always i would make a > sample and put it in my large pressure chamber. > Thank you in advance > Hank > > > On Monday, August 22, 2016 10:24 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > Douglas-Fir | The Wood Database - Lumber Identification ... > > http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/softwoods/douglas-fir/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 22 13:11:52 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 11:11:52 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <115780542.301593.1471883470716@mail.yahoo.com> References: <115780542.301593.1471883470716@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, the little f you are referring to I presume is the lb_f notation? This is an artifact of Imperial / US standard units, which in common usage do not differentiate between mass and force. In SI, the mass unit is the kilogram, and the force unit is the Newton. In Imperial units, the mass unit is actually the slug, but almost nobody uses slugs on a daily basis. Thus, the US standard adopted the pound as a unit of mass, differentiating it from the force unit with the subscripts lb_m and lb_f. That they are equivalent only holds true in standard earth gravity, so in any other gravity field you need to divide the lb_f by 32.2 ft/s^2 to get the mass in slugs, and then multiply by the actual local gravitational acceleration to get the force in lb_f. All in all, it's a mess, which is why I prefer to stick with SI / MKS units for everything. In any case, 1 lb_m is the mass that weighs 1 lb_f in standard earth gravity. That out of the way, getting to your actual question, be careful using published material property data, because it can be specific to shape or loading direction. Natural wood is an anisotropic material - it exhibits different mechanical properties in the grain direction than it does cross-grain. Dimensional lumber is usually milled longitudinally with the grain, so this may be what is quoted, but it is ambiguous. Also, while softwood lumber may have mechanical properties similar to that of epoxy foams, the water absorption properties will differ, as I'm sure you're aware from your log salvage experience. Any coating you apply to encapsulate a block of wood will have different mechanical properties than the wood itself, which could lead to a breach of the waterproof integrity, and subsequent water absorption by the wood. I would be very hesitant to consider this, unless you test a few samples experimentally, and also employ routine condition monitoring / density checks of such parts in service. Sean On August 22, 2016 10:31:10 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi guys,?I have forwarded a page with mechanical properties of Douglas >Fir wood in this email. ?There is a?rating for compressive strength and >it has a little f in the?description. ?Not sure how to interpret that. >?Can I get an opinion on that. ?I need to know the compressive strength >in psi. ?This could be a cheap form of buoyancy. ?I would make a glulam >?then fibreglass the exterior to waterproof the block. ?Of coarse as >always i would make a sample and put it in my large pressure >chamber.Thank you in advanceHank > > On Monday, August 22, 2016 10:24 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > Douglas-Fir | The Wood Database - Lumber Identification ... >http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/softwoods/douglas-fir/ > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 22 13:25:40 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 17:25:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: <115780542.301593.1471883470716@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2034279704.336957.1471886740917@mail.yahoo.com> Antoine,That is interesting indeed! ?I was?thinking I could maybe just coat the wood and I was also?thinking to round the edges. ?I can buy off cut laminated fir beams and coat them. ?The nice thing about laminated beams is, the wood quality and proper dryness is all to a strict standard.?Hank On Monday, August 22, 2016 11:07 AM, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles wrote: hello Hank,nice idea. Actually for my shell, I have tested red and yellow cedar, very light weight wood used for wooden kayaks, and on my sub as outer shell, covered?by primer?monocomponent polyurethane resin, then?fiberglass/polyester composite, and it holds reasonably well (at least down to 50m). For buoyancy gains, I would just coat the piece of wood (with round edges)?with the primer layer of PU resin which is not as strong as?glassfiber/polyester, but flexible to accommodate the potential wood compression. BTW once you start using this resin, you can t stop (called G4 or Gravithane 2 in France). It contains solvents and unreticulated polymer initially, so when you spread it on porous stuff like wood it penetrates the material before the solvent dries and the polymer reticulates. So the bond is very good, it will keep water out,?and you can glue wood pieces together like this.?You can even strengthen the?wood by penetrating the first few mm on surface by diluting the resin first with acetone for a first layer so it penetrates even better. But it does the same on skin so do wear gloves if you do not want?bionic plasticized hands for weeks afterwards... the other issue is that unlike dual component resins it expires a few months after opening (and store the bottles upside down and always clean the tank's cap if you want to open it again). my shell probably has a density of 0.7g/cc overall due to the glass fiber and resins,?when the wood is probably around 0.4g/ccIf I were to go for pure buoyancy tanks, I d probably end up somewhere around 0.5g/cc which is comparable to the deep trawl buoys.?To check it holds pressure for my max depth of 120m, I cut a 5 square centimeter piece and walked on it. did not compress.regardsantoine?? ? On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 6:31 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi guys,?I have forwarded a page with mechanical properties of Douglas Fir wood in this email.? There is a?rating for compressive strength and it has a little f in the?description.? Not sure how to interpret that.? Can I get an opinion on that.? I need to know the compressive strength in psi.? This could be a cheap form of buoyancy.? I would make a glulam ?then fibreglass the exterior to waterproof the block.? Of coarse as always i would make a sample and put it in my large pressure chamber.Thank you in advanceHank On Monday, August 22, 2016 10:24 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: Douglas-Fir | The Wood Database - Lumber Identification ... http://www.wood-database.com/ lumber-identification/ softwoods/douglas-fir/ ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 22 13:51:20 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 17:51:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: <115780542.301593.1471883470716@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1210557099.382310.1471888280231@mail.yahoo.com> Than you Sean,I have experimented with this idea already with uncoated wood and in 12 hr at full pressure the wood is no longer buoyant. ?I do think though, if it was encapsulated reliably it could serve as a cost effective solution. ?The trick of coarse will be encapsulating it reliably. ?Also the blocks would have to be in safe locations so they don't get damaged. ?I am quite comfortable with the compression of wood, fir in particular. ?I use fir shims when I lift buildings and I can tell you how heavy a building is by how much the fir compresses. ? BUT, you have a valid point. ?I will have to test a lot.Hank On Monday, August 22, 2016 11:27 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, the little f you are referring to I presume is the lb_f notation? This is an artifact of Imperial / US standard units, which in common usage do not differentiate between mass and force.? In SI, the mass unit is the kilogram, and the force unit is the Newton. In Imperial units, the mass unit is actually the slug, but almost nobody uses slugs on a daily basis. Thus, the US standard adopted the pound as a unit of mass, differentiating it from the force unit with the subscripts lb_m and lb_f. That they are equivalent only holds true in standard earth gravity, so in any other gravity field you need to divide the lb_f by 32.2 ft/s^2 to get the mass in slugs, and then multiply by the actual local gravitational acceleration to get the force in lb_f. All in all, it's a mess, which is why I prefer to stick with SI / MKS units for everything.? In any case, 1 lb_m is the mass that weighs 1 lb_f in standard earth gravity.That out of the way, getting to your actual question, be careful using published material property data, because it can be specific to shape or loading direction. Natural wood is an anisotropic material - it exhibits different mechanical properties in the grain direction than it does cross-grain. Dimensional lumber is usually milled longitudinally with the grain, so this may be what is quoted, but it is ambiguous. Also, while softwood lumber may have mechanical properties similar to that? of epoxy foams, the water absorption properties will differ, as I'm sure you're aware from your log salvage experience. Any coating you apply to encapsulate a block of wood will have different mechanical properties than the wood itself, which could lead to a breach of the waterproof integrity, and subsequent water absorption by the wood.? I would be very hesitant to consider this, unless you test a few samples experimentally, and also employ routine condition monitori! ng /density checks of such parts in service.Sean On August 22, 2016 10:31:10 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi guys,?I have forwarded a page with mechanical properties of Douglas Fir wood in this email. ?There is a?rating for compressive strength and it has a little f in the?description. ?Not sure how to interpret that. ?Can I get an opinion on that. ?I need to know the compressive strength in psi. ?This could be a cheap form of buoyancy. ?I would make a glulam ?then fibreglass the exterior to waterproof the block. ?Of coarse as always i would make a sample and put it in my large pressure chamber.Thank you in advanceHank On Monday, August 22, 2016 10:24 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: Douglas-Fir | The Wood Database - Lumber Identification ... http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/softwoods/douglas-fir/ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 22 14:27:57 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 18:27:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <1210557099.382310.1471888280231@mail.yahoo.com> References: <115780542.301593.1471883470716@mail.yahoo.com> <1210557099.382310.1471888280231@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5485609.392551.1471890477809@mail.yahoo.com> Sean,What are your thoughts on using type IV CNG tanks with 3,600 psi operating pressure as buoyancy tanks. ?The tanks would have full pressure in them at all times. ?They could also serve as reserve HP air if regulated to stay above ambient.Hank On Monday, August 22, 2016 11:54 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Than you Sean,I have experimented with this idea already with uncoated wood and in 12 hr at full pressure the wood is no longer buoyant. ?I do think though, if it was encapsulated reliably it could serve as a cost effective solution. ?The trick of coarse will be encapsulating it reliably. ?Also the blocks would have to be in safe locations so they don't get damaged. ?I am quite comfortable with the compression of wood, fir in particular. ?I use fir shims when I lift buildings and I can tell you how heavy a building is by how much the fir compresses. ? BUT, you have a valid point. ?I will have to test a lot.Hank On Monday, August 22, 2016 11:27 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, the little f you are referring to I presume is the lb_f notation? This is an artifact of Imperial / US standard units, which in common usage do not differentiate between mass and force.? In SI, the mass unit is the kilogram, and the force unit is the Newton. In Imperial units, the mass unit is actually the slug, but almost nobody uses slugs on a daily basis. Thus, the US standard adopted the pound as a unit of mass, differentiating it from the force unit with the subscripts lb_m and lb_f. That they are equivalent only holds true in standard earth gravity, so in any other gravity field you need to divide the lb_f by 32.2 ft/s^2 to get the mass in slugs, and then multiply by the actual local gravitational acceleration to get the force in lb_f. All in all, it's a mess, which is why I prefer to stick with SI / MKS units for everything.? In any case, 1 lb_m is the mass that weighs 1 lb_f in standard earth gravity.That out of the way, getting to your actual question, be careful using published material property data, because it can be specific to shape or loading direction. Natural wood is an anisotropic material - it exhibits different mechanical properties in the grain direction than it does cross-grain. Dimensional lumber is usually milled longitudinally with the grain, so this may be what is quoted, but it is ambiguous. Also, while softwood lumber may have mechanical properties similar to that? of epoxy foams, the water absorption properties will differ, as I'm sure you're aware from your log salvage experience. Any coating you apply to encapsulate a block of wood will have different mechanical properties than the wood itself, which could lead to a breach of the waterproof integrity, and subsequent water absorption by the wood.? I would be very hesitant to consider this, unless you test a few samples experimentally, and also employ routine condition monitori! ng /density checks of such parts in service.Sean On August 22, 2016 10:31:10 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi guys,?I have forwarded a page with mechanical properties of Douglas Fir wood in this email. ?There is a?rating for compressive strength and it has a little f in the?description. ?Not sure how to interpret that. ?Can I get an opinion on that. ?I need to know the compressive strength in psi. ?This could be a cheap form of buoyancy. ?I would make a glulam ?then fibreglass the exterior to waterproof the block. ?Of coarse as always i would make a sample and put it in my large pressure chamber.Thank you in advanceHank On Monday, August 22, 2016 10:24 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: Douglas-Fir | The Wood Database - Lumber Identification ... http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/softwoods/douglas-fir/ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 22 17:51:34 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 17:51:34 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <1210557099.382310.1471888280231@mail.yahoo.com> References: <115780542.301593.1471883470716@mail.yahoo.com> <1210557099.382310.1471888280231@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This sounds a lot like the specs for some stuff I came across recently but have not yet used: https://www.generalplastics.com/r-3300.html It's not the same as syntactic foam, but although not as deep diving it's apparently much cheaper. Anyway... The point is that they give two distinct pressure ratings, coated and uncoated. Best, Alec > On Aug 22, 2016, at 1:51 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Than you Sean, > I have experimented with this idea already with uncoated wood and in 12 hr at full pressure the wood is no longer buoyant. I do think though, if it was encapsulated reliably it could serve as a cost effective solution. The trick of coarse will be encapsulating it reliably. Also the blocks would have to be in safe locations so they don't get damaged. I am quite comfortable with the compression of wood, fir in particular. I use fir shims when I lift buildings and I can tell you how heavy a building is by how much the fir compresses. BUT, you have a valid point. I will have to test a lot. > Hank > > > On Monday, August 22, 2016 11:27 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, the little f you are referring to I presume is the lb_f notation? This is an artifact of Imperial / US standard units, which in common usage do not differentiate between mass and force. In SI, the mass unit is the kilogram, and the force unit is the Newton. In Imperial units, the mass unit is actually the slug, but almost nobody uses slugs on a daily basis. Thus, the US standard adopted the pound as a unit of mass, differentiating it from the force unit with the subscripts lb_m and lb_f. That they are equivalent only holds true in standard earth gravity, so in any other gravity field you need to divide the lb_f by 32.2 ft/s^2 to get the mass in slugs, and then multiply by the actual local gravitational acceleration to get the force in lb_f. All in all, it's a mess, which is why I prefer to stick with SI / MKS units for everything. In any case, 1 lb_m is the mass that weighs 1 lb_f in standard earth gravity. > That out of the way, getting to your actual question, be careful using published material property data, because it can be specific to shape or loading direction. Natural wood is an anisotropic material - it exhibits different mechanical properties in the grain direction than it does cross-grain. Dimensional lumber is usually milled longitudinally with the grain, so this may be what is quoted, but it is ambiguous. Also, while softwood lumber may have mechanical properties similar to that of epoxy foams, the water absorption properties will differ, as I'm sure you're aware from your log salvage experience. Any coating you apply to encapsulate a block of wood will have different mechanical properties than the wood itself, which could lead to a breach of the waterproof integrity, and subsequent water absorption by the wood. I would be very hesitant to consider this, unless you test a few samples experimentally, and also employ routine condition monitori! ng / density checks of such parts in service. > Sean > > > On August 22, 2016 10:31:10 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi guys, > I have forwarded a page with mechanical properties of Douglas Fir wood in this email. There is a rating for compressive strength and it has a little f in the description. Not sure how to interpret that. Can I get an opinion on that. I need to know the compressive strength in psi. This could be a cheap form of buoyancy. I would make a glulam then fibreglass the exterior to waterproof the block. Of coarse as always i would make a sample and put it in my large pressure chamber. > Thank you in advance > Hank > > > On Monday, August 22, 2016 10:24 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > Douglas-Fir | The Wood Database - Lumber Identification ... > > http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/softwoods/douglas-fir/ > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 22 17:55:23 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 21:55:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <5485609.392551.1471890477809@mail.yahoo.com> References: <115780542.301593.1471883470716@mail.yahoo.com> <1210557099.382310.1471888280231@mail.yahoo.com> <5485609.392551.1471890477809@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1600922067.402828.1471902923243.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,I like the CNG tank idea, as you would get a large amount of floatationper volume from them. Also you would have to go beyond 7000ft before any external pressure would come in to play. They would be more vulnerable above the surface in any intense heat that may over pressurize them.Other positives are that you could have large floatation bags filled from them for extra buoyancy on the surface & emergency buoyancy, (if you get stuck in the mud again!) I believe Nuytco uses composite oxygen tanks; so you arenot doing something that hasn't been done before, only in your case solelyfor buoyancy.?? The negatives are that the valves probably wouldn't like salt water if youventured in to it, & you would have to take them off for pressure testing& inspection, assuming they have the same regulations as dive tanks.You would also have to protect them from collision. They would possiblylook uglier than a tailor made syntactic foam form & be more difficult toplace.Also you would need to ensure that you could get to the surface if one of thesefailed. (G.L. rules)Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2016 6:27 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Sean,What are your thoughts on using type IV CNG tanks with 3,600 psi operating pressure as buoyancy tanks. ?The tanks would have full pressure in them at all times. ?They could also serve as reserve HP air if regulated to stay above ambient.Hank On Monday, August 22, 2016 11:54 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Than you Sean,I have experimented with this idea already with uncoated wood and in 12 hr at full pressure the wood is no longer buoyant. ?I do think though, if it was encapsulated reliably it could serve as a cost effective solution. ?The trick of coarse will be encapsulating it reliably. ?Also the blocks would have to be in safe locations so they don't get damaged. ?I am quite comfortable with the compression of wood, fir in particular. ?I use fir shims when I lift buildings and I can tell you how heavy a building is by how much the fir compresses. ? BUT, you have a valid point. ?I will have to test a lot.Hank On Monday, August 22, 2016 11:27 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, the little f you are referring to I presume is the lb_f notation? This is an artifact of Imperial / US standard units, which in common usage do not differentiate between mass and force.? In SI, the mass unit is the kilogram, and the force unit is the Newton. In Imperial units, the mass unit is actually the slug, but almost nobody uses slugs on a daily basis. Thus, the US standard adopted the pound as a unit of mass, differentiating it from the force unit with the subscripts lb_m and lb_f. That they are equivalent only holds true in standard earth gravity, so in any other gravity field you need to divide the lb_f by 32.2 ft/s^2 to get the mass in slugs, and then multiply by the actual local gravitational acceleration to get the force in lb_f. All in all, it's a mess, which is why I prefer to stick with SI / MKS units for everything.? In any case, 1 lb_m is the mass that weighs 1 lb_f in standard earth gravity.That out of the way, getting to your actual question, be careful using published material property data, because it can be specific to shape or loading direction. Natural wood is an anisotropic material - it exhibits different mechanical properties in the grain direction than it does cross-grain. Dimensional lumber is usually milled longitudinally with the grain, so this may be what is quoted, but it is ambiguous. Also, while softwood lumber may have mechanical properties similar to that? of epoxy foams, the water absorption properties will differ, as I'm sure you're aware from your log salvage experience. Any coating you apply to encapsulate a block of wood will have different mechanical properties than the wood itself, which could lead to a breach of the waterproof integrity, and subsequent water absorption by the wood.? I would be very hesitant to consider this, unless you test a few samples experimentally, and also employ routine condition monitori! ng /density checks of such parts in service.Sean On August 22, 2016 10:31:10 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi guys,?I have forwarded a page with mechanical properties of Douglas Fir wood in this email. ?There is a?rating for compressive strength and it has a little f in the?description. ?Not sure how to interpret that. ?Can I get an opinion on that. ?I need to know the compressive strength in psi. ?This could be a cheap form of buoyancy. ?I would make a glulam ?then fibreglass the exterior to waterproof the block. ?Of coarse as always i would make a sample and put it in my large pressure chamber.Thank you in advanceHank On Monday, August 22, 2016 10:24 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: Douglas-Fir | The Wood Database - Lumber Identification ... http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/softwoods/douglas-fir/ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 22 18:36:01 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 22:36:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] rotating hull References: <1815299257.536056.1471905361763.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1815299257.536056.1471905361763@mail.yahoo.com> Okay new idea,In an effort to keep things cost effective, building a 48 inch sphere with 3.25 inch thick wall. ?It would be much easier to have the hatch and conical port as one item. ?To overcome the problem of orientation of the hatch pointing up, the sphere could rotate. ?I don't see any big problems with this and it would save a lot of work and money. ?Also the sphere could rotate more than 90 degrees ?as well. ?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 22 22:50:14 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 02:50:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] rotating hull In-Reply-To: <1815299257.536056.1471905361763@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1815299257.536056.1471905361763.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1815299257.536056.1471905361763@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1419156270.600412.1471920614690.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> ?????? What about all the through hulls, pneumatic, hydraulic hoses, electrical wiring dropweights etc. Also the?building of the rotating mechanism. And what if you got stuck in the dive orientation?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2016 10:36 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] rotating hull Okay new idea,In an effort to keep things cost effective, building a 48 inch sphere with 3.25 inch thick wall. ?It would be much easier to have the hatch and conical port as one item. ?To overcome the problem of orientation of the hatch pointing up, the sphere could rotate. ?I don't see any big problems with this and it would save a lot of work and money. ?Also the sphere could rotate more than 90 degrees ?as well. ?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 22 18:16:44 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 22:16:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <1600922067.402828.1471902923243.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <115780542.301593.1471883470716@mail.yahoo.com> <1210557099.382310.1471888280231@mail.yahoo.com> <5485609.392551.1471890477809@mail.yahoo.com> <1600922067.402828.1471902923243.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <437272788.508143.1471904204625@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,,I agree, they have potential. ?I really like the idea of using them for air storage also. ?I have a 6,000 psi regulator and could set it well above ambient and eliminate the need for HP bottles. ? This is worth investigating further or at least. ?There must be a problem, it is to easy! ?Hank On Monday, August 22, 2016 3:59 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I like the CNG tank idea, as you would get a large amount of floatationper volume from them. Also you would have to go beyond 7000ft before any external pressure would come in to play. They would be more vulnerable above the surface in any intense heat that may over pressurize them.Other positives are that you could have large floatation bags filled from them for extra buoyancy on the surface & emergency buoyancy, (if you get stuck in the mud again!) I believe Nuytco uses composite oxygen tanks; so you arenot doing something that hasn't been done before, only in your case solelyfor buoyancy.?? The negatives are that the valves probably wouldn't like salt water if youventured in to it, & you would have to take them off for pressure testing& inspection, assuming they have the same regulations as dive tanks.You would also have to protect them from collision. They would possiblylook uglier than a tailor made syntactic foam form & be more difficult toplace.Also you would need to ensure that you could get to the surface if one of thesefailed. (G.L. rules)Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2016 6:27 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Sean,What are your thoughts on using type IV CNG tanks with 3,600 psi operating pressure as buoyancy tanks. ?The tanks would have full pressure in them at all times. ?They could also serve as reserve HP air if regulated to stay above ambient.Hank On Monday, August 22, 2016 11:54 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Than you Sean,I have experimented with this idea already with uncoated wood and in 12 hr at full pressure the wood is no longer buoyant. ?I do think though, if it was encapsulated reliably it could serve as a cost effective solution. ?The trick of coarse will be encapsulating it reliably. ?Also the blocks would have to be in safe locations so they don't get damaged. ?I am quite comfortable with the compression of wood, fir in particular. ?I use fir shims when I lift buildings and I can tell you how heavy a building is by how much the fir compresses. ? BUT, you have a valid point. ?I will have to test a lot.Hank On Monday, August 22, 2016 11:27 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, the little f you are referring to I presume is the lb_f notation? This is an artifact of Imperial / US standard units, which in common usage do not differentiate between mass and force.? In SI, the mass unit is the kilogram, and the force unit is the Newton. In Imperial units, the mass unit is actually the slug, but almost nobody uses slugs on a daily basis. Thus, the US standard adopted the pound as a unit of mass, differentiating it from the force unit with the subscripts lb_m and lb_f. That they are equivalent only holds true in standard earth gravity, so in any other gravity field you need to divide the lb_f by 32.2 ft/s^2 to get the mass in slugs, and then multiply by the actual local gravitational acceleration to get the force in lb_f. All in all, it's a mess, which is why I prefer to stick with SI / MKS units for everything.? In any case, 1 lb_m is the mass that weighs 1 lb_f in standard earth gravity.That out of the way, getting to your actual question, be careful using published material property data, because it can be specific to shape or loading direction. Natural wood is an anisotropic material - it exhibits different mechanical properties in the grain direction than it does cross-grain. Dimensional lumber is usually milled longitudinally with the grain, so this may be what is quoted, but it is ambiguous. Also, while softwood lumber may have mechanical properties similar to that? of epoxy foams, the water absorption properties will differ, as I'm sure you're aware from your log salvage experience. Any coating you apply to encapsulate a block of wood will have different mechanical properties than the wood itself, which could lead to a breach of the waterproof integrity, and subsequent water absorption by the wood.? I would be very hesitant to consider this, unless you test a few samples experimentally, and also employ routine condition monitori! ng /density checks of such parts in service.Sean On August 22, 2016 10:31:10 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi guys,?I have forwarded a page with mechanical properties of Douglas Fir wood in this email. ?There is a?rating for compressive strength and it has a little f in the?description. ?Not sure how to interpret that. ?Can I get an opinion on that. ?I need to know the compressive strength in psi. ?This could be a cheap form of buoyancy. ?I would make a glulam ?then fibreglass the exterior to waterproof the block. ?Of coarse as always i would make a sample and put it in my large pressure chamber.Thank you in advanceHank On Monday, August 22, 2016 10:24 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: Douglas-Fir | The Wood Database - Lumber Identification ... http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/softwoods/douglas-fir/ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 23 02:31:41 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 06:31:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <437272788.508143.1471904204625@mail.yahoo.com> References: <115780542.301593.1471883470716@mail.yahoo.com> <1210557099.382310.1471888280231@mail.yahoo.com> <5485609.392551.1471890477809@mail.yahoo.com> <1600922067.402828.1471902923243.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <437272788.508143.1471904204625@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <342057188.1034067.1471933901505.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,you may be the first to think of this application.The composite pressure vessels have had reasonably recent acceptance.They?are a lot stronger under internal pressure than external due tocarbon fibers high tensile strength. I ran a?test on an epoxy composite?spherefor internal & external pressure, & it could take 5 x as much pressure internally.But you are using them pressurized to compensate for that. They wouldn't be needed for shallow diving & couldn't be used for depths over 14,000ft; so theyfit the niche that you need them for.Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2016 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Alan,,I agree, they have potential. ?I really like the idea of using them for air storage also. ?I have a 6,000 psi regulator and could set it well above ambient and eliminate the need for HP bottles. ? This is worth investigating further or at least. ?There must be a problem, it is to easy! ?Hank On Monday, August 22, 2016 3:59 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I like the CNG tank idea, as you would get a large amount of floatationper volume from them. Also you would have to go beyond 7000ft before any external pressure would come in to play. They would be more vulnerable above the surface in any intense heat that may over pressurize them.Other positives are that you could have large floatation bags filled from them for extra buoyancy on the surface & emergency buoyancy, (if you get stuck in the mud again!) I believe Nuytco uses composite oxygen tanks; so you arenot doing something that hasn't been done before, only in your case solelyfor buoyancy.?? The negatives are that the valves probably wouldn't like salt water if youventured in to it, & you would have to take them off for pressure testing& inspection, assuming they have the same regulations as dive tanks.You would also have to protect them from collision. They would possiblylook uglier than a tailor made syntactic foam form & be more difficult toplace.Also you would need to ensure that you could get to the surface if one of thesefailed. (G.L. rules)Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2016 6:27 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Sean,What are your thoughts on using type IV CNG tanks with 3,600 psi operating pressure as buoyancy tanks. ?The tanks would have full pressure in them at all times. ?They could also serve as reserve HP air if regulated to stay above ambient.Hank On Monday, August 22, 2016 11:54 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Than you Sean,I have experimented with this idea already with uncoated wood and in 12 hr at full pressure the wood is no longer buoyant. ?I do think though, if it was encapsulated reliably it could serve as a cost effective solution. ?The trick of coarse will be encapsulating it reliably. ?Also the blocks would have to be in safe locations so they don't get damaged. ?I am quite comfortable with the compression of wood, fir in particular. ?I use fir shims when I lift buildings and I can tell you how heavy a building is by how much the fir compresses. ? BUT, you have a valid point. ?I will have to test a lot.Hank On Monday, August 22, 2016 11:27 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, the little f you are referring to I presume is the lb_f notation? This is an artifact of Imperial / US standard units, which in common usage do not differentiate between mass and force.? In SI, the mass unit is the kilogram, and the force unit is the Newton. In Imperial units, the mass unit is actually the slug, but almost nobody uses slugs on a daily basis. Thus, the US standard adopted the pound as a unit of mass, differentiating it from the force unit with the subscripts lb_m and lb_f. That they are equivalent only holds true in standard earth gravity, so in any other gravity field you need to divide the lb_f by 32.2 ft/s^2 to get the mass in slugs, and then multiply by the actual local gravitational acceleration to get the force in lb_f. All in all, it's a mess, which is why I prefer to stick with SI / MKS units for everything.? In any case, 1 lb_m is the mass that weighs 1 lb_f in standard earth gravity.That out of the way, getting to your actual question, be careful using published material property data, because it can be specific to shape or loading direction. Natural wood is an anisotropic material - it exhibits different mechanical properties in the grain direction than it does cross-grain. Dimensional lumber is usually milled longitudinally with the grain, so this may be what is quoted, but it is ambiguous. Also, while softwood lumber may have mechanical properties similar to that? of epoxy foams, the water absorption properties will differ, as I'm sure you're aware from your log salvage experience. Any coating you apply to encapsulate a block of wood will have different mechanical properties than the wood itself, which could lead to a breach of the waterproof integrity, and subsequent water absorption by the wood.? I would be very hesitant to consider this, unless you test a few samples experimentally, and also employ routine condition monitori! ng /density checks of such parts in service.Sean On August 22, 2016 10:31:10 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi guys,?I have forwarded a page with mechanical properties of Douglas Fir wood in this email. ?There is a?rating for compressive strength and it has a little f in the?description. ?Not sure how to interpret that. ?Can I get an opinion on that. ?I need to know the compressive strength in psi. ?This could be a cheap form of buoyancy. ?I would make a glulam ?then fibreglass the exterior to waterproof the block. ?Of coarse as always i would make a sample and put it in my large pressure chamber.Thank you in advanceHank On Monday, August 22, 2016 10:24 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: Douglas-Fir | The Wood Database - Lumber Identification ... http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/softwoods/douglas-fir/ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 23 07:40:08 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Petar Topljak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:40:08 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 1-ATM design In-Reply-To: <6271F90E-EECB-4E85-8398-DEAE96D6B178@aol.com> References: <9ca95d14-ba0f-4669-b4d3-52eb3bc8eefd@email.android.com> <6271F90E-EECB-4E85-8398-DEAE96D6B178@aol.com> Message-ID: Looks like I will have to do what Jim suggested and ad a sepparate column with conversion formula, I tried to simply imput mm or m for lenght/width etc but shell parameters come out negative ( either G or N ). I will have to figure out how to take care of thate later since I have to include all the calculations in paper. Petar 2016-08-20 14:51 GMT+02:00 Jim via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > Hello Peter, > Welcome to the group. Could you add a column containing the appropriate > conversion formulae to render the values in metric? > Jim > > Sent from my iPad > > On Aug 20, 2016, at 7:32 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > There is nothing specific to imperial / US standard units about the > equations given in the ABS rules. They work with any self-consistent set of > units, and in fact my own software tracks dimensionality using MKS / SI > units exclusively. > > Sean > > > On August 20, 2016 6:05:50 AM MDT, Petar Topljak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Hi Alec, >> >> As I understanded that, the D cell is there for another section of >> different diametre, my design has only one D0 - 1800 mm . >> I also have issues with ABS rules as they are made according to imperial >> system, It would be desirable to have the calculations in my assignment in >> metric system. >> >> Thank You for quick response; Petar >> >> 2016-08-20 13:56 GMT+02:00 Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: >> >>> Hi Peter, >>> >>> Welcome, and I wish I'd had that assignment in college! The blue cells >>> are calculated, but for that to happen you need to populate the white ones. >>> For example on your first screen shot, the material properties in column D >>> have not been entered. >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 6:16 AM, Petar Topljak via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi everyone, >>>> >>>> My name is Petar and I am coming from Rijeka, Croatia. I am designing >>>> 1-ATM one man submersible as a project for one of my subjects at my >>>> university. >>>> >>>> The idea is to design a pressure hull that can safely whitstand >>>> pressure at 150 meters. Procedure is to design submersible according to ABS >>>> (or ASME or any else classification company) rules, create model using 3d >>>> modelling software and do a finite element analysis of the model. >>>> >>>> The problems I ran into are in using the spreadsheet, as there are some >>>> parameters that are not defined in the ABS rules, or I am not able to find >>>> them or understand them due to my english skills, + we use metric system, >>>> so changing creates additional problems. >>>> >>>> >>>> I understand the classic questions asked about the lobes and >>>> coefficients (eta), but i had issues with Tw, Lw Lf and tf parametres - >>>> "mail3 stiffener.png" am I doing it right ? >>>> >>>> I am also sending you screenshots of my sheet, so you can check it if >>>> you like and alert me for any possible mistakes. >>>> >>>> Thank You in advance, Petar >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 23 08:17:42 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:17:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: thumbs up In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <768365927.772955.1471954662791@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I think your concerns can be addressed, with less trouble than building a separate port insert, maybe ;-) ? There will be a lot of smoke before there is a fire on this project. ?Hank On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 6:12 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=image+of+thumbs+up&view=detailv2&qpvt=image+of+thumbs+up&id=2E4E085252FC4A0BA1BD7B8A5FB11330055AD40E&selectedIndex=1&ccid=3XXMmnBl&simid=607990331690454325&thid=OIP.Mdd75cc9a70659d8c74ff5c9ffdfb0110o0 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2016-08-23 at 6.12 AM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 22705 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 23 08:26:22 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Petar Topljak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 14:26:22 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 1-ATM design In-Reply-To: References: <9ca95d14-ba0f-4669-b4d3-52eb3bc8eefd@email.android.com> <6271F90E-EECB-4E85-8398-DEAE96D6B178@aol.com> Message-ID: I managed to do everything, works just fine. I have just a quick question about parametre "c", which is described as "The distance of stiffener flange from neutral axis of combined stiffener and effective shell section Le" Can anyone sketch me or explain me this in any way ! Thank you in advance, Petar 2016-08-23 13:40 GMT+02:00 Petar Topljak : > Looks like I will have to do what Jim suggested and ad a sepparate column > with conversion formula, I tried to simply imput mm or m for lenght/width > etc but shell parameters come out negative ( either G or N ). I will have > to figure out how to take care of thate later since I have to include all > the calculations in paper. > > Petar > > 2016-08-20 14:51 GMT+02:00 Jim via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > >> Hello Peter, >> Welcome to the group. Could you add a column containing the appropriate >> conversion formulae to render the values in metric? >> Jim >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Aug 20, 2016, at 7:32 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> There is nothing specific to imperial / US standard units about the >> equations given in the ABS rules. They work with any self-consistent set of >> units, and in fact my own software tracks dimensionality using MKS / SI >> units exclusively. >> >> Sean >> >> >> On August 20, 2016 6:05:50 AM MDT, Petar Topljak via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi Alec, >>> >>> As I understanded that, the D cell is there for another section of >>> different diametre, my design has only one D0 - 1800 mm . >>> I also have issues with ABS rules as they are made according to imperial >>> system, It would be desirable to have the calculations in my assignment in >>> metric system. >>> >>> Thank You for quick response; Petar >>> >>> 2016-08-20 13:56 GMT+02:00 Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: >>> >>>> Hi Peter, >>>> >>>> Welcome, and I wish I'd had that assignment in college! The blue cells >>>> are calculated, but for that to happen you need to populate the white ones. >>>> For example on your first screen shot, the material properties in column D >>>> have not been entered. >>>> >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Alec >>>> >>>> On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 6:16 AM, Petar Topljak via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>> >>>>> My name is Petar and I am coming from Rijeka, Croatia. I am designing >>>>> 1-ATM one man submersible as a project for one of my subjects at my >>>>> university. >>>>> >>>>> The idea is to design a pressure hull that can safely whitstand >>>>> pressure at 150 meters. Procedure is to design submersible according to ABS >>>>> (or ASME or any else classification company) rules, create model using 3d >>>>> modelling software and do a finite element analysis of the model. >>>>> >>>>> The problems I ran into are in using the spreadsheet, as there are >>>>> some parameters that are not defined in the ABS rules, or I am not able to >>>>> find them or understand them due to my english skills, + we use metric >>>>> system, so changing creates additional problems. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I understand the classic questions asked about the lobes and >>>>> coefficients (eta), but i had issues with Tw, Lw Lf and tf parametres - >>>>> "mail3 stiffener.png" am I doing it right ? >>>>> >>>>> I am also sending you screenshots of my sheet, so you can check it if >>>>> you like and alert me for any possible mistakes. >>>>> >>>>> Thank You in advance, Petar >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 24 16:24:04 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 14:24:04 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <5485609.392551.1471890477809@mail.yahoo.com> References: <115780542.301593.1471883470716@mail.yahoo.com> <1210557099.382310.1471888280231@mail.yahoo.com> <5485609.392551.1471890477809@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9e81160c-60b4-4666-9dc3-035e229aa248@email.android.com> I would be very wary of using composite cylinders in submerged service. My understanding is that while the technology is now mature, composite cylinders originally marketed for SCBA use were not certified for SCUBA use due to the risk of cracks in the outer epoxy allowing water to infiltrate and increase the risk of a delamination failure. That could very well have to do with anticipated handling - obviously full submersible pressure hulls have been constructed from GRP etc., so what the real failure risk is I'm not sure. At minimum, I'd be inclined to inspect and possibly even recoat (epoxy) such cylinders on a regular basis. That aside, I would be hesitant to use pressurized cylinders in this manner (as primary / integral buoyancy) at all, given that a failure of such a system is intolerable. (I assume you're talking about permanent, and not surface buoyancy?) Any crack, collapse or leaky plumbing to such a system results in a catastrophic unrecoverable failure. Sean On August 22, 2016 12:27:57 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Sean,What are your thoughts on using type IV CNG tanks with 3,600 psi >operating pressure as buoyancy tanks. ?The tanks would have full >pressure in them at all times. ?They could also serve as reserve HP air >if regulated to stay above ambient.Hank > >On Monday, August 22, 2016 11:54 AM, hank pronk via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Than you Sean,I have experimented with this idea already with uncoated >wood and in 12 hr at full pressure the wood is no longer buoyant. ?I do >think though, if it was encapsulated reliably it could serve as a cost >effective solution. ?The trick of coarse will be encapsulating it >reliably. ?Also the blocks would have to be in safe locations so they >don't get damaged. ?I am quite comfortable with the compression of >wood, fir in particular. ?I use fir shims when I lift buildings and I >can tell you how heavy a building is by how much the fir compresses. ? >BUT, you have a valid point. ?I will have to test a lot.Hank > >On Monday, August 22, 2016 11:27 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Hank, the little f you are referring to I presume is the lb_f notation? >This is an artifact of Imperial / US standard units, which in common >usage do not differentiate between mass and force.? In SI, the mass >unit is the kilogram, and the force unit is the Newton. In Imperial >units, the mass unit is actually the slug, but almost nobody uses slugs >on a daily basis. Thus, the US standard adopted the pound as a unit of >mass, differentiating it from the force unit with the subscripts lb_m >and lb_f. That they are equivalent only holds true in standard earth >gravity, so in any other gravity field you need to divide the lb_f by >32.2 ft/s^2 to get the mass in slugs, and then multiply by the actual >local gravitational acceleration to get the force in lb_f. All in all, >it's a mess, which is why I prefer to stick with SI / MKS units for >everything.? In any case, 1 lb_m is the mass that weighs 1 lb_f in >standard earth gravity.That out of the way, getting to your actual >question, be careful using published material property data, because it >can be specific to shape or loading direction. Natural wood is an >anisotropic material - it exhibits different mechanical properties in >the grain direction than it does cross-grain. Dimensional lumber is >usually milled longitudinally with the grain, so this may be what is >quoted, but it is ambiguous. Also, while softwood lumber may have >mechanical properties similar to that? of epoxy foams, the water >absorption properties will differ, as I'm sure you're aware from your >log salvage experience. Any coating you apply to encapsulate a block of >wood will have different mechanical properties than the wood itself, >which could lead to a breach of the waterproof integrity, and >subsequent water absorption by the wood.? I would be very hesitant to >consider this, unless you test a few samples experimentally, and also >employ routine condition monitori! ng /density checks of such parts in >service.Sean > >On August 22, 2016 10:31:10 AM MDT, hank pronk via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi guys,?I have forwarded a page with mechanical properties of Douglas >Fir wood in this email. ?There is a?rating for compressive strength and >it has a little f in the?description. ?Not sure how to interpret that. >?Can I get an opinion on that. ?I need to know the compressive strength >in psi. ?This could be a cheap form of buoyancy. ?I would make a glulam >?then fibreglass the exterior to waterproof the block. ?Of coarse as >always i would make a sample and put it in my large pressure >chamber.Thank you in advanceHank > > On Monday, August 22, 2016 10:24 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > Douglas-Fir | The Wood Database - Lumber Identification ... >http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/softwoods/douglas-fir/ > > > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 24 17:15:18 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 21:15:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <9e81160c-60b4-4666-9dc3-035e229aa248@email.android.com> References: <115780542.301593.1471883470716@mail.yahoo.com> <1210557099.382310.1471888280231@mail.yahoo.com> <5485609.392551.1471890477809@mail.yahoo.com> <9e81160c-60b4-4666-9dc3-035e229aa248@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1207371394.1713854.1472073318257@mail.yahoo.com> Sean,I have a plan for total failure of one HP buoyancy tank. ?Because the buoyancy is so great with two tanks, I need to add a substantial amount of weight to the chassis of the sub. ?(Elementary 3000) ?The chassis is the drop weight. ?With one tank flooded the sub could surface without using the MBT. ?The MBT would have enough flotation to orient the sub so the hatch could open ?while the sub is in the water. ? ?A layer of protective material can be added to the tank, or it can be encapsulated by fairings.Hank On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 2:39 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I would be very wary of using composite cylinders in submerged service. My understanding is that while the technology is now mature, composite cylinders originally marketed for SCBA use were not certified for SCUBA use due to the risk of cracks in the outer epoxy allowing water to infiltrate and increase the risk of a delamination failure.? That could very well have to do with anticipated handling - obviously full submersible pressure hulls have been constructed from GRP etc., so what the real failure risk is I'm not sure.? At minimum, I'd be inclined to inspect and possibly even recoat (epoxy) such cylinders on a regular basis.That aside, I would be hesitant to use pressurized cylinders in this manner (as primary / integral buoyancy) at all, given that a failure of such a system is intolerable.? (I assume you're talking about permanent, and not surface buoyancy?) Any crack, collapse or leaky plumbing to such a system results in a catastrophic unrecoverable failure.? Sean On August 22, 2016 12:27:57 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean,What are your thoughts on using type IV CNG tanks with 3,600 psi operating pressure as buoyancy tanks. ?The tanks would have full pressure in them at all times. ?They could also serve as reserve HP air if regulated to stay above ambient.Hank On Monday, August 22, 2016 11:54 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Than you Sean,I have experimented with this idea already with uncoated wood and in 12 hr at full pressure the wood is no longer buoyant. ?I do think though, if it was encapsulated reliably it could serve as a cost effective solution. ?The trick of coarse will be encapsulating it reliably. ?Also the blocks would have to be in safe locations so they don't get dama! ged.?I am quite comfortable with the compression of wood, fir in particular. ?I use fir shims when I lift buildings and I can tell you how heavy a building is by how much the fir compresses. ? BUT, you have a valid point. ?I will have to test a lot.Hank On Monday, August 22, 2016 11:27 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, the little f you are referring to I presume is the lb_f notation? This is an artifact of Imperial / US standard units, which in common usage do not differentiate between mass and force.? In SI, the mass unit is the kilogram, and the force unit is the Newton. In Imperial units, the mass unit is actually the slug, but almost nobody uses slugs on a daily basis. Thus, the US standard adopted the pound as a unit of mass, differentiating it from the force unit with the subscripts lb_m and lb_f. That they are equivalent only holds true in standard earth gravity, so in any other gravity field you need to divide the lb_f by 32.2 ft/s^2 to get the mass in slugs, and then multiply by the actual local gravitational acceleration to get the force in lb_f. All in all, it's a mess, which is why I prefer to stick with SI / MKS units foreverything.? In any case, 1 lb_m is the mass that weighs 1 lb_f in standard earth gravity.That out of the way, getting to your actual question, be careful using published material property data, because it can be specific to shape or loading direction. Natural wood is an anisotropic material - it exhibits different mechanical properties in the grain direction than it does cross-grain. Dimensional lumber is usually milled longitudinally with the grain, so this may be what is quoted, but it is ambiguous. Also, while softwood lumber may have mechanical properties similar to that? of epoxy foams, the water absorption properties will differ, as I'm sure you're aware from your log salvage experience. Any coating you apply to encapsulate a block of wood will have different mechanical properties than the wood itself, which could lead to a breach of the waterproof integrity, and subsequent water absorption by the wood.? I would be very hesitant to consider this, unless you test a few samples experimentally, and also employ routine condition monito! ri! ng /density checks of such parts in service.Sean On August 22, 2016 10:31:10 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi guys,?I have forwarded a page with mechanical properties of Douglas Fir wood in this email. ?There is a?rating for compressive strength and it has a little f in the?description. ?Not sure how to interpret that. ?Can I get an opinion on that. ?I need to know the compressive strength in psi. ?This could be a cheap form of buoyancy. ?I would make a glulam ?then fibreglass the exterior to waterproof the block. ?Of coarse as always i would make a sample and put it in my large pressure chamber.Thank you in advanceHank On Monday, August 22, 2016 10:24 AM, xxx xxxxx wro! te: Douglas-Fir | The Wood Database - Lumber Identification ... http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/softwoods/douglas-fir/ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersi! blesmailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 25 10:30:46 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 07:30:46 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Catalina Hyperbaric Chamber Message-ID: <20160825073046.760CAFE2@m0087793.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 25 14:59:08 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 14:59:08 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Catalina Hyperbaric Chamber In-Reply-To: <20160825073046.760CAFE2@m0087793.ppops.net> References: <20160825073046.760CAFE2@m0087793.ppops.net> Message-ID: Very cool video Brian, thanks for uploading! Nice of those folks to spend some time walking us through their set-up. I've always been curious about hyperbaric chambers... I'm gonna have to watch these vids a couple of times. Thanks for your effort. ~ Douglas S. On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 10:30 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Everybody, > Got some swell video while I was on my trip. I > unexpectedly got a tour of the Catalina Hyperbaric Chamber, I wasn't really > planning on it but got to talking to a guy about it so I set up a short > tour and hiked over to the chamber. It's a couple of miles from where we > were, so I made the trek over there and checked it out. They were really > nice, Karl Huggins, who is the director and Lorraine Sadler, who is the > main technician. There are two parts to the video: > > Part One: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDF3o9iRW94 > > > Part Two: > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtN-429kosE > > > > Check it out ! > > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 25 15:01:35 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 19:01:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Catalina Hyperbaric Chamber In-Reply-To: References: <20160825073046.760CAFE2@m0087793.ppops.net> Message-ID: <185137728.2299509.1472151695146@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,Nice job, your turning into a real movie maker.Hank On Thursday, August 25, 2016 12:59 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Very cool video Brian, thanks for uploading! Nice of those folks to spend some time walking us through their set-up. I've always been curious about hyperbaric chambers... I'm gonna have to watch these vids a couple of times. Thanks for your effort. ~ Douglas S.? On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 10:30 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Everybody,?????????????????????????? Got some swell video while I was on my trip.? I unexpectedly got a tour of the Catalina Hyperbaric Chamber,?I wasn't really planning on it but got to talking to a guy about it so I set up a short tour and hiked over to the chamber.? It's a couple of miles from where we were, so I made the trek over there and checked it out.? They were really nice, Karl Huggins, who is the director and Lorraine Sadler, who is the main technician.? There are two parts to the video:?Part One:?https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=aDF3o9iRW94??Part Two:??https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=HtN-429kosE???Check it out !??Brian ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 25 16:32:17 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 20:32:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Catalina Hyperbaric Chamber In-Reply-To: <20160825073046.760CAFE2@m0087793.ppops.net> References: <20160825073046.760CAFE2@m0087793.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1875004635.2410879.1472157137636.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Brian,thanks for the video. You were fortunate to get all that time from them.The Will Kohnen they mentioned in the first video, runs Hydrospacehttp://www.seamagine.com/index.htmlHe is?based in Claremont, is a very nice gentleman who also runs thesubmersible side of the Underwater Intervention Convention. He is knownto a few of the members.Cheers Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: PSubs Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 2:30 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Catalina Hyperbaric Chamber Hi Everybody,?????????????????????????? Got some swell video while I was on my trip.? I unexpectedly got a tour of the Catalina Hyperbaric Chamber,?I wasn't really planning on it but got to talking to a guy about it so I set up a short tour and hiked over to the chamber.? It's a couple of miles from where we were, so I made the trek over there and checked it out.? They were really nice, Karl Huggins, who is the director and Lorraine Sadler, who is the main technician.? There are two parts to the video:?Part One:?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDF3o9iRW94??Part Two:??https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtN-429kosE???Check it out !??Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 25 16:44:23 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 13:44:23 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Catalina Hyperbaric Chamber Message-ID: <20160825134423.BEB20B2F@m0087792.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: