From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 1 03:09:17 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 08:09:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless thruster test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <417105765.3303615.1454314157576.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Glen,there are a lot of direct drive brushless thrusters out there that are made forsubs, ROVs & DPVs. I have performance specs on a number of themthat I can compare with my results. So just a matter of finding the rightmotor & prop combination.I am now looking at sensored BLDC motors rather than the sensorless motors?I have been using. This is because it is difficult to find speed controllerswith reverse for the sensorless. The sensored motors are used in tractionvehicles where they want a smoother start, whereas sensorless motorstend to be in things like RC planes that don't need reverse.Cheers Alan From: gbrown091 via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless thruster test Thanks Alan appreciate your input on the thruster testing.?RegardsGlen Sent from Samsung Mobile -------- Original message -------- From: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles Date:30/01/2016 18:20 (GMT+02:00) To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless thruster test Thanks for the update, Alan.It looks like your research is coming along quite well.Tim ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2016 1:47 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless thruster test ?I had an initial pool test of my brushless thruster yesterday.Thruster is on projects page?http://www.psubs.org/projects/1235435392/brushlessthruster/A bit of a mixed bag. Firstly I was testing it on 36-37 V & not 44 that it was designed for,due to size restrictions on import of Lithium polymer batteries. I will buy the additional voltage.? ?I was getting 5kg (11lb) thrust off 150W & 10kg (22lb) off 515W, which is comparable &better than some commercial direct drive BLDC thrusters that I have specs on.However I got to 13kg thrust & the propeller seemed to slip at that point & even though?it was running at 2,200W I wasn't getting any more thrust. I was only a couple of feet out?from the pool edge when testing, so that could be contributing.Another factor could have been that the seal leaked badly & the motor was short circuiting?through the water. Why did the seal leak? Possibly I damaged it hammering it in to it's housingor because I didn't polish up the propeller shaft.?I have other motors I will be testing, so a lot more work & learning to do on this one.I did notice I had the same problem as ?Cliff, with the motor wiring starting to wear throughwhere it comes out of the housing.Cheers Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 1 14:36:00 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 11:36:00 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! Message-ID: <20160201113600.661A1E45@m0087791.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 1 15:18:33 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 21:18:33 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! In-Reply-To: <20160201113600.661A1E45@m0087791.ppops.net> References: <20160201113600.661A1E45@m0087791.ppops.net> Message-ID: Congrats, Vacuum after build or rebuild is a special moment. Carefull grinding and sanding may fix that instead of the lathe. Regards, Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 1 februari 2016 20:36 Aan: PSubs Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! Hi All, My subs sitting with 26" of Hg over at my shop !! Did have a bit of a problem however, I had to clamp the hatch down because I have a slight warp, probably from a couple of welds done after machining, should be able to remedy that with another trip to the big lathe. Brian Cox -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 1 15:40:03 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 12:40:03 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! Message-ID: <20160201124003.661A10BD@m0087791.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 1 17:45:04 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 22:45:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! In-Reply-To: <20160201124003.661A10BD@m0087791.ppops.net> References: <20160201124003.661A10BD@m0087791.ppops.net> Message-ID: <390464722.42745.1454366704110.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian?A big satisfying mile stone, congratulations!Hank On Monday, February 1, 2016 1:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That's encouraging !?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 21:18:33 +0100 Congrats, Vacuum afterbuild or rebuild is a special moment.?Carefull grinding andsanding may fix that instead of the lathe.?Regards, Emile?Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 1 februari 201620:36 Aan: PSubs Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gotvacuum !?HiAll,????????? My subs sitting with26" of Hg?over at my shop !!???? Did have a bitof a problem however,? I had to clamp the hatch down because I have aslight warp, probably from a couple of welds done after machining, should beable to remedy that with another trip to the big lathe.?Brian Cox_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 1 18:17:47 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 15:17:47 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! Message-ID: <20160201151747.661A3E9C@m0087791.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 1 18:18:46 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 23:18:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! In-Reply-To: <20160201151747.661A3E9C@m0087791.ppops.net> References: <20160201151747.661A3E9C@m0087791.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1201790268.105069.1454368726647.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Any idea when your going to test her?Hank On Monday, February 1, 2016 4:18 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Hank,? Good feeling !?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 22:45:04 +0000 (UTC) Brian?A big satisfying mile stone, congratulations!Hank On Monday, February 1, 2016 1:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That's encouraging !?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 21:18:33 +0100 Congrats, Vacuum afterbuild or rebuild is a special moment.?Carefull grinding andsanding may fix that instead of the lathe.?Regards, Emile?Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 1 februari 201620:36 Aan: PSubs Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gotvacuum !?HiAll,????????? My subs sitting with26" of Hg?over at my shop !!???? Did have a bitof a problem however,? I had to clamp the hatch down because I have aslight warp, probably from a couple of welds done after machining, should beable to remedy that with another trip to the big lathe.?Brian Cox_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 1 20:29:45 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 17:29:45 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! Message-ID: <20160201172945.8958DEFB@m0087793.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 2 08:17:20 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 13:17:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! In-Reply-To: <20160201172945.8958DEFB@m0087793.ppops.net> References: <20160201172945.8958DEFB@m0087793.ppops.net> Message-ID: <532707067.331429.1454419040262.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,Been there done that, ?it is quite easy to fix. ?Emile is correct, just take your grinder with a flexible disk and buff the high area down. ?Just place the hatch on the land and use feeler gauges to find the gaps and mark them with your chalk. ?The fixable disk is very slow at removing material, so you have plenty of control. ?I had the same problem with my land on my escape pod and I fixed it easily. ?I got it to within .004 and it went to 638 feet. ?Don't panic about a little gap. ?Just buff then check then buff then check...... oh ya, you can use super coarse disks.Hank On Monday, February 1, 2016 6:29 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Got to straighten this hatch thing out.?? Emile suggested that it would be possible to grind/ sand down to get flat, sounds a bit harsh, not sure how I would go about doing that.?? I need to get a flat surface, like a?granite surface plate or a piece of glass so I can determine flatness.? I knew I shouldn't have welded those hinge flanges on after welding, but I had assurances that it wouldn't deform anything !? Last time I take advice like that !???That side pulled?up just?slightly so I would have to turn or grind down about?2/3 rds of the hatch by about 75 thousandths to make everything level.?Brian?? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 23:18:46 +0000 (UTC) Any idea when your going to test her?Hank On Monday, February 1, 2016 4:18 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Hank,? Good feeling !?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 22:45:04 +0000 (UTC) Brian?A big satisfying mile stone, congratulations!Hank On Monday, February 1, 2016 1:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That's encouraging !?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 21:18:33 +0100 Congrats, Vacuum afterbuild or rebuild is a special moment.?Carefull grinding andsanding may fix that instead of the lathe.?Regards, Emile?Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 1 februari 201620:36 Aan: PSubs Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gotvacuum !?HiAll,????????? My subs sitting with26" of Hg?over at my shop !!???? Did have a bitof a problem however,? I had to clamp the hatch down because I have aslight warp, probably from a couple of welds done after machining, should beable to remedy that with another trip to the big lathe.?Brian Cox_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 2 10:33:46 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 07:33:46 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! Message-ID: <20160202073346.864909A8@m0087792.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 2 11:01:51 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 16:01:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! In-Reply-To: <20160202073346.864909A8@m0087792.ppops.net> References: <20160202073346.864909A8@m0087792.ppops.net> Message-ID: <869634196.349862.1454428911785.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,The land will be your guide, you don't need a flat glass or anything like it. ?Your hatch will be matched to your land?regardless of the flatness of the land. ?Just always test fit the hatch in the mounted position, as if it were in the hinges. ?It really is easy!Remember, no one likes a coward.Hank On Tuesday, February 2, 2016 8:33 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hmm, interesting.? The gap is on the hatch part. the land on the sub is good.? I'm pretty sure that's the case anyway.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 13:17:20 +0000 (UTC) Brian,Been there done that, ?it is quite easy to fix. ?Emile is correct, just take your grinder with a flexible disk and buff the high area down. ?Just place the hatch on the land and use feeler gauges to find the gaps and mark them with your chalk. ?The fixable disk is very slow at removing material, so you have plenty of control. ?I had the same problem with my land on my escape pod and I fixed it easily. ?I got it to within .004 and it went to 638 feet. ?Don't panic about a little gap. ?Just buff then check then buff then check...... oh ya, you can use super coarse disks.Hank On Monday, February 1, 2016 6:29 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Got to straighten this hatch thing out.?? Emile suggested that it would be possible to grind/ sand down to get flat, sounds a bit harsh, not sure how I would go about doing that.?? I need to get a flat surface, like a?granite surface plate or a piece of glass so I can determine flatness.? I knew I shouldn't have welded those hinge flanges on after welding, but I had assurances that it wouldn't deform anything !? Last time I take advice like that !???That side pulled?up just?slightly so I would have to turn or grind down about?2/3 rds of the hatch by about 75 thousandths to make everything level.?Brian?? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 23:18:46 +0000 (UTC) Any idea when your going to test her?Hank On Monday, February 1, 2016 4:18 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Hank,? Good feeling !?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 22:45:04 +0000 (UTC) Brian?A big satisfying mile stone, congratulations!Hank On Monday, February 1, 2016 1:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That's encouraging !?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 21:18:33 +0100 Congrats, Vacuum afterbuild or rebuild is a special moment.?Carefull grinding andsanding may fix that instead of the lathe.?Regards, Emile?Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 1 februari 201620:36 Aan: PSubs Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gotvacuum !?HiAll,????????? My subs sitting with26" of Hg?over at my shop !!???? Did have a bitof a problem however,? I had to clamp the hatch down because I have aslight warp, probably from a couple of welds done after machining, should beable to remedy that with another trip to the big lathe.?Brian Cox_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 2 11:37:27 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 08:37:27 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! Message-ID: <20160202083727.8648FD7C@m0087792.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 2 11:47:24 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 16:47:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! In-Reply-To: <20160202083727.8648FD7C@m0087792.ppops.net> References: <20160202083727.8648FD7C@m0087792.ppops.net> Message-ID: <157855067.390613.1454431644654.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> HaHa, yup- not even a sander but a grinder, lol. ?I painted my land with gelcoat to protect it, but my land is not easy to repair like your flat land. ?Only the area where the o-ring lands is important for sealing anyways. ?Gamma has a few nicks in the land and it is no bother at all. ?My o-ring for my port test chamber is beat to hell with chunks missing and it is no bother and it has ?been to 1,000 psi with no leaks. Hank On Tuesday, February 2, 2016 9:37 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,??? It just seems wrong !??? Here I've had tape protecting the hatch lands for the past few months and now I'm gonna take a frickin sander to the thing !?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 16:01:51 +0000 (UTC) Brian,The land will be your guide, you don't need a flat glass or anything like it. ?Your hatch will be matched to your land?regardless of the flatness of the land. ?Just always test fit the hatch in the mounted position, as if it were in the hinges. ?It really is easy!Remember, no one likes a coward.Hank On Tuesday, February 2, 2016 8:33 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hmm, interesting.? The gap is on the hatch part. the land on the sub is good.? I'm pretty sure that's the case anyway.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 13:17:20 +0000 (UTC) Brian,Been there done that, ?it is quite easy to fix. ?Emile is correct, just take your grinder with a flexible disk and buff the high area down. ?Just place the hatch on the land and use feeler gauges to find the gaps and mark them with your chalk. ?The fixable disk is very slow at removing material, so you have plenty of control. ?I had the same problem with my land on my escape pod and I fixed it easily. ?I got it to within .004 and it went to 638 feet. ?Don't panic about a little gap. ?Just buff then check then buff then check...... oh ya, you can use super coarse disks.Hank On Monday, February 1, 2016 6:29 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Got to straighten this hatch thing out.?? Emile suggested that it would be possible to grind/ sand down to get flat, sounds a bit harsh, not sure how I would go about doing that.?? I need to get a flat surface, like a?granite surface plate or a piece of glass so I can determine flatness.? I knew I shouldn't have welded those hinge flanges on after welding, but I had assurances that it wouldn't deform anything !? Last time I take advice like that !???That side pulled?up just?slightly so I would have to turn or grind down about?2/3 rds of the hatch by about 75 thousandths to make everything level.?Brian?? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 23:18:46 +0000 (UTC) Any idea when your going to test her?Hank On Monday, February 1, 2016 4:18 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Hank,? Good feeling !?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 22:45:04 +0000 (UTC) Brian?A big satisfying mile stone, congratulations!Hank On Monday, February 1, 2016 1:40 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That's encouraging !?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Got vacuum ! Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 21:18:33 +0100 Congrats, Vacuum afterbuild or rebuild is a special moment.?Carefull grinding andsanding may fix that instead of the lathe.?Regards, Emile?Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 1 februari 201620:36 Aan: PSubs Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gotvacuum !?HiAll,????????? My subs sitting with26" of Hg?over at my shop !!???? Did have a bitof a problem however,? I had to clamp the hatch down because I have aslight warp, probably from a couple of welds done after machining, should beable to remedy that with another trip to the big lathe.?Brian Cox_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 3 10:26:39 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 10:26:39 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New Jersey wreck dive - would you? Message-ID: <002e01d15e97$47e35b10$d7aa1130$@gmail.com> Crowd Sourcing - should I do it? Would you? In a K350 - Lake Diver aka Harold? A couple of weeks ago I was approached with the idea of carrying a 90 year-old WWII Vet to a wreck off the coast of New Jersey. He would like to see the USS Algol one last time. An attack cargo ship, he served on her during the war in the Pacific. She was sunk as an artificial reef a number of years ago. New Jersey wreck diving is not for sissies. When I've been wreck diving in the Atlantic, as I'm sure many of you have, you have an anchor line to get on the wreck and can get back to the boat via same. A submersible in the North Atlantic with a current ... and usually bad visibility ... mobile in three directions with no attachments ... Diving, if the viz stinks you can use a reel to get back and you avoid any underwater hazards easily enough. The wreck is shallow, 70 feet to the super structure, 120 to the sand. Would be trivial to have support divers outside for most of the dive. But Jersey wreck diving in a K350. Mark Ragan and I mused about it. He's not interested. Which leaves me. I'm at about a 20% level of interest. At a minimum I think we'd need a boat with a crane. I can't imagine being towed out with a 90 year-old gent in the back and I can't imagine getting him into it while bobbing about anchored onto the wreck. Lifted and dropped in would be my preference. Thoughts? Brian https://youtu.be/CALM6QcYU1I --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 3 10:53:59 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 10:53:59 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New Jersey wreck dive - would you? In-Reply-To: <002e01d15e97$47e35b10$d7aa1130$@gmail.com> References: <002e01d15e97$47e35b10$d7aa1130$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Brian, There's nothing wrong with a K350, but a wreck in a current is something I would avoid in any sub. Just way too many chances to get pinned against or under something that the thrusters might not be able to pull you off. Just my 2 cents... Best, Alec On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Crowd Sourcing - should I do it? Would you? In a K350 - Lake Diver aka > Harold? > > A couple of weeks ago I was approached with the idea of carrying a 90 > year-old WWII Vet to a wreck off the coast of New Jersey. He would like to > see the USS Algol one last time. An attack cargo ship, he served on her > during the war in the Pacific. She was sunk as an artificial reef a number > of years ago. > > New Jersey wreck diving is not for sissies. When I've been wreck diving in > the Atlantic, as I'm sure many of you have, you have an anchor line to get > on the wreck and can get back to the boat via same. A submersible in the > North Atlantic with a current ... and usually bad visibility ... mobile in > three directions with no attachments ... Diving, if the viz stinks you can > use a reel to get back and you avoid any underwater hazards easily enough. > > The wreck is shallow, 70 feet to the super structure, 120 to the sand. > Would be trivial to have support divers outside for most of the dive. But > Jersey wreck diving in a K350. Mark Ragan and I mused about it. He's not > interested. Which leaves me. I'm at about a 20% level of interest. > > At a minimum I think we'd need a boat with a crane. I can't imagine being > towed out with a 90 year-old gent in the back and I can't imagine getting > him into it while bobbing about anchored onto the wreck. Lifted and > dropped > in would be my preference. > > Thoughts? > > Brian > > https://youtu.be/CALM6QcYU1I > > > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 3 12:02:11 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 17:02:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New Jersey wreck dive - would you? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1045040748.947963.1454518931910.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Brian,Sounds like a job for a dual DW with sports car type thrusters and perfect?viability with top mount domes.I agree with AlecHank On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 8:54 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Brian, There's nothing wrong with a K350, but a wreck in a current is something I would avoid in any sub. Just way too many chances to get pinned against or under something that the thrusters might not be able to pull you off. Just my 2 cents... Best, Alec On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Crowd Sourcing - should I do it? Would you? In a K350 - Lake Diver aka Harold? A couple of weeks ago I was approached with the idea of carrying a 90 year-old WWII Vet to a wreck off the coast of New Jersey. He would like to see the USS Algol one last time. An attack cargo ship, he served on her during the war in the Pacific. She was sunk as an artificial reef a number of years ago. New Jersey wreck diving is not for sissies. When I've been wreck diving in the Atlantic, as I'm sure many of you have, you have an anchor line to get on the wreck and can get back to the boat via same.? A submersible in the North Atlantic with a current ... and usually bad visibility ... mobile in three directions with no attachments ...? Diving, if the viz stinks you can use a reel to get back and you avoid any underwater hazards easily enough. ?The wreck is shallow, 70 feet to the super structure, 120 to the sand. Would be trivial to have support divers outside for most of the dive.? But Jersey wreck diving in a K350.? Mark Ragan and I mused about it.? He's not interested.? Which leaves me.? I'm at about a 20% level of interest. At a minimum I think we'd need a boat with a crane. I can't imagine being towed out with a 90 year-old gent in the back and I can't imagine getting him into it while bobbing about anchored onto the wreck.? Lifted and dropped in would be my preference. Thoughts? Brian https://youtu.be/CALM6QcYU1I --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 3 12:31:45 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 18:31:45 +0100 (MET) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New Jersey wreck dive - would you? In-Reply-To: <002e01d15e97$47e35b10$d7aa1130$@gmail.com> References: <002e01d15e97$47e35b10$d7aa1130$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1454520705713.2728461.80267d53cdd52bdf0a5e477b3a3499627e333ca7@spica.telekom.de> 01) Has the sub a forward looking sonar? 02) How much current? 03) You can drop a anchor line to the wreck anyway and dive the sub down along the line. Without 01) I may would not do it. vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New Jersey wreck dive - would you? Datum: 2016-02-03T16:30:10+0100 Von: "Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles" An: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" Crowd Sourcing - should I do it? Would you? In a K350 - Lake Diver aka Harold? A couple of weeks ago I was approached with the idea of carrying a 90 year-old WWII Vet to a wreck off the coast of New Jersey. He would like to see the USS Algol one last time. An attack cargo ship, he served on her during the war in the Pacific. She was sunk as an artificial reef a number of years ago. New Jersey wreck diving is not for sissies. When I've been wreck diving in the Atlantic, as I'm sure many of you have, you have an anchor line to get on the wreck and can get back to the boat via same. A submersible in the North Atlantic with a current ... and usually bad visibility ... mobile in three directions with no attachments ... Diving, if the viz stinks you can use a reel to get back and you avoid any underwater hazards easily enough. The wreck is shallow, 70 feet to the super structure, 120 to the sand. Would be trivial to have support divers outside for most of the dive. But Jersey wreck diving in a K350. Mark Ragan and I mused about it. He's not interested. Which leaves me. I'm at about a 20% level of interest. At a minimum I think we'd need a boat with a crane. I can't imagine being towed out with a 90 year-old gent in the back and I can't imagine getting him into it while bobbing about anchored onto the wreck. Lifted and dropped in would be my preference. Thoughts? Brian https://youtu.be/CALM6QcYU1I --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 3 14:03:29 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 19:03:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New Jersey wreck dive - would you? In-Reply-To: <002e01d15e97$47e35b10$d7aa1130$@gmail.com> References: <002e01d15e97$47e35b10$d7aa1130$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <877335429.1290491.1454526209272.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,I have looked after old people & they pass wind a lot,I would abandon the mission purely based on this fact.Alan From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Thursday, February 4, 2016 4:26 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New Jersey wreck dive - would you? Crowd Sourcing - should I do it? Would you? In a K350 - Lake Diver aka Harold? A couple of weeks ago I was approached with the idea of carrying a 90 year-old WWII Vet to a wreck off the coast of New Jersey. He would like to see the USS Algol one last time. An attack cargo ship, he served on her during the war in the Pacific. She was sunk as an artificial reef a number of years ago. New Jersey wreck diving is not for sissies. When I've been wreck diving in the Atlantic, as I'm sure many of you have, you have an anchor line to get on the wreck and can get back to the boat via same.? A submersible in the North Atlantic with a current ... and usually bad visibility ... mobile in three directions with no attachments ...? Diving, if the viz stinks you can use a reel to get back and you avoid any underwater hazards easily enough. The wreck is shallow, 70 feet to the super structure, 120 to the sand. Would be trivial to have support divers outside for most of the dive.? But Jersey wreck diving in a K350.? Mark Ragan and I mused about it.? He's not interested.? Which leaves me.? I'm at about a 20% level of interest. At a minimum I think we'd need a boat with a crane. I can't imagine being towed out with a 90 year-old gent in the back and I can't imagine getting him into it while bobbing about anchored onto the wreck.? Lifted and dropped in would be my preference. Thoughts? Brian https://youtu.be/CALM6QcYU1I --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 3 20:34:20 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 17:34:20 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New Jersey wreck dive - would you? In-Reply-To: <1454520705713.2728461.80267d53cdd52bdf0a5e477b3a3499627e333ca7@spica.telekom.de> References: <002e01d15e97$47e35b10$d7aa1130$@gmail.com> <1454520705713.2728461.80267d53cdd52bdf0a5e477b3a3499627e333ca7@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <003501d15eec$2ca79cd0$85f6d670$@telus.net> As well, IMO, the depth of interest allows safety divers familiar with the site to escort the submarine. Go with two, or better yet three, safety divers hanging onto the sub with jon lines and equipped with the requisite knives and sheers in case of entanglement. Three divers should be able to man-handle the sub at depth if necessary. Current is a big issue and better not exceed 2 knots. Communications between submarine, divers, and surface would really be helpful too. This is quite the project. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2016 9:32 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New Jersey wreck dive - would you? 01) Has the sub a forward looking sonar? 02) How much current? 03) You can drop a anchor line to the wreck anyway and dive the sub down along the line. Without 01) I may would not do it. vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New Jersey wreck dive - would you? Datum: 2016-02-03T16:30:10+0100 Von: "Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles" An: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" Crowd Sourcing - should I do it? Would you? In a K350 - Lake Diver aka Harold? A couple of weeks ago I was approached with the idea of carrying a 90 year-old WWII Vet to a wreck off the coast of New Jersey. He would like to see the USS Algol one last time. An attack cargo ship, he served on her during the war in the Pacific. She was sunk as an artificial reef a number of years ago. New Jersey wreck diving is not for sissies. When I've been wreck diving in the Atlantic, as I'm sure many of you have, you have an anchor line to get on the wreck and can get back to the boat via same. A submersible in the North Atlantic with a current ... and usually bad visibility ... mobile in three directions with no attachments ... Diving, if the viz stinks you can use a reel to get back and you avoid any underwater hazards easily enough. The wreck is shallow, 70 feet to the super structure, 120 to the sand. Would be trivial to have support divers outside for most of the dive. But Jersey wreck diving in a K350. Mark Ragan and I mused about it. He's not interested. Which leaves me. I'm at about a 20% level of interest. At a minimum I think we'd need a boat with a crane. I can't imagine being towed out with a 90 year-old gent in the back and I can't imagine getting him into it while bobbing about anchored onto the wreck. Lifted and dropped in would be my preference. Thoughts? Brian https://youtu.be/CALM6QcYU1I --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 5 01:24:31 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 19:24:31 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham / Vancouver conference Message-ID: <94C9A937-B935-4BE0-9E21-8EB14AF2FC81@yahoo.com> Hi Tim & Hank, just going through my conference videos & came across this one. https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=vPBNmm66KSg Am wondering if this is a typical Canadian or are they just like that in Vancouver ? Maybe the American members have an opinion. Alan Sent from my iPad From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 5 08:27:02 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 13:27:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham / Vancouver conference In-Reply-To: <94C9A937-B935-4BE0-9E21-8EB14AF2FC81@yahoo.com> References: <94C9A937-B935-4BE0-9E21-8EB14AF2FC81@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <895024392.1844623.1454678823020.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Alan,This is not a typical Canadian but?certainly a colourful and harmless addition to our society.?Hank On Thursday, February 4, 2016 11:24 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Tim & Hank, just going through my conference videos & came across this one. https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=vPBNmm66KSg Am wondering if this is a typical Canadian or are they just like that in Vancouver ? Maybe the American members have an opinion. Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 5 09:46:24 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2016 07:46:24 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham / Vancouver conference Message-ID: <20160205074624.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a5d6c06ed6.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 5 20:05:48 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 17:05:48 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham / Vancouver conference In-Reply-To: <20160205074624.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a5d6c06ed6.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20160205074624.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a5d6c06ed6.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <004b01d1607a$84a864c0$8df92e40$@telus.net> Well, if your profession is busking then you better be entertaining. Hey Alan, why not post up the pic of the young female cutie that you met when you were here? the one you posted on your Face Book. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, February 5, 2016 6:46 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham / Vancouver conference What the hell? hahahaha -Scott Waters -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham / Vancouver conference From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Date: Fri, February 05, 2016 12:24 am To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Hi Tim & Hank, just going through my conference videos & came across this one. https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player &v=vPBNmm66KSg Am wondering if this is a typical Canadian or are they just like that in Vancouver ? Maybe the American members have an opinion. Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 5 20:47:59 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 01:47:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: deep diver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <81509961.62148.1454723279932.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Progress is good on my new build. ?I have named it" Elementary 3000" ?The sub is all mocked up with interior painted and port installed. ?Tomorrow I drive down to the USA to pick up my trawl floats and I can fabricate the fibreglass MBT that also houses the trawl floats. ?I see water in my ?near future!Hank On Friday, February 5, 2016 6:42 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0277.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 19858 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 5 21:07:49 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 02:07:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham / Vancouver conference In-Reply-To: <004b01d1607a$84a864c0$8df92e40$@telus.net> References: <20160205074624.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a5d6c06ed6.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <004b01d1607a$84a864c0$8df92e40$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1328309679.123044.1454724469790.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Here we go Tim,this was a typical Canadian woman. From: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Saturday, February 6, 2016 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham / Vancouver conference #yiv6229131283 #yiv6229131283 -- _filtered #yiv6229131283 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv6229131283 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv6229131283 {font-family:Verdana;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv6229131283 #yiv6229131283 p.yiv6229131283MsoNormal, #yiv6229131283 li.yiv6229131283MsoNormal, #yiv6229131283 div.yiv6229131283MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv6229131283 a:link, #yiv6229131283 span.yiv6229131283MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6229131283 a:visited, #yiv6229131283 span.yiv6229131283MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6229131283 span.yiv6229131283EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv6229131283 .yiv6229131283MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv6229131283 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv6229131283 div.yiv6229131283WordSection1 {}#yiv6229131283 Well, if your profession is busking then you better be entertaining. Hey Alan, why not post up the pic of the young female cutie that you met when you were here? the one you posted on your Face Book.Tim ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, February 5, 2016 6:46 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham / Vancouver conference ?What the hell? hahahaha-Scott Waters?? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham / Vancouver conference From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: Fri, February 05, 2016 12:24 am To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Hi Tim & Hank, just going through my conference videos & came across this one. https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=vPBNmm66KSg Am wondering if this is a typical Canadian or are they just like that in Vancouver ? Maybe the American members have an opinion. Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 5 21:15:08 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 02:15:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: deep diver In-Reply-To: <81509961.62148.1454723279932.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <81509961.62148.1454723279932.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1517433072.143016.1454724908768.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,well done.?With the trawl floats, can you pick up a small size float that will fit in the gapsbetween the larger floats? Could give you a lot more flotation for a smaller size.Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, February 6, 2016 2:47 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: deep diver Progress is good on my new build. ?I have named it" Elementary 3000" ?The sub is all mocked up with interior painted and port installed. ?Tomorrow I drive down to the USA to pick up my trawl floats and I can fabricate the fibreglass MBT that also houses the trawl floats. ?I see water in my ?near future!Hank On Friday, February 5, 2016 6:42 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0277.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 19858 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 5 21:20:06 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 21:20:06 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham / Vancouver conference In-Reply-To: <1328309679.123044.1454724469790.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160205074624.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a5d6c06ed6.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <004b01d1607a$84a864c0$8df92e40$@telus.net> <1328309679.123044.1454724469790.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Boy, I gots to get up there more often, eh? ~ Douglas S. On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 9:07 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Here we go Tim, > this was a typical Canadian woman. > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > > *To:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Saturday, February 6, 2016 2:05 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham / Vancouver conference > > Well, if your profession is busking then you better be entertaining. > Hey Alan, why not post up the pic of the young female cutie that you met > when you were here? the one you posted on your Face Book. > Tim > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Friday, February 5, 2016 6:46 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham / Vancouver conference > > What the hell? hahahaha > -Scott Waters > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham / Vancouver conference > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Date: Fri, February 05, 2016 12:24 am > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > Hi Tim & Hank, > just going through my conference videos & came across this one. > https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=vPBNmm66KSg > Am wondering if this is a typical Canadian or are they just like that in > Vancouver ? > Maybe the American members have an opinion. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 5 21:22:29 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 18:22:29 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham / Vancouver conference Message-ID: <20160205182229.895EE3B4@m0087793.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 07:53:33 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 12:53:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: deep diver In-Reply-To: <1517433072.143016.1454724908768.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1517433072.143016.1454724908768.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2004490632.165174.1454763213158.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I am relying on the gaps between the floats for air volume?when the body is acting as the MBT.Hank On Friday, February 5, 2016 7:18 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,well done.?With the trawl floats, can you pick up a small size float that will fit in the gapsbetween the larger floats? Could give you a lot more flotation for a smaller size.Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, February 6, 2016 2:47 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: deep diver Progress is good on my new build. ?I have named it" Elementary 3000" ?The sub is all mocked up with interior painted and port installed. ?Tomorrow I drive down to the USA to pick up my trawl floats and I can fabricate the fibreglass MBT that also houses the trawl floats. ?I see water in my ?near future!Hank On Friday, February 5, 2016 6:42 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0277.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 19858 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 08:33:13 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 02:33:13 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: deep diver In-Reply-To: <2004490632.165174.1454763213158.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1517433072.143016.1454724908768.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <2004490632.165174.1454763213158.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Good thinking, I now get the picture. BTW I did enjoy meeting that colorful character. life would be boring without people like that around. The Lady I posted was part of a large group of kids dressed as comic characters. They put a lot of effort in & loved getting photographed. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7/02/2016, at 1:53 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I am relying on the gaps between the floats for air volume when the body is acting as the MBT. > Hank > > > On Friday, February 5, 2016 7:18 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > well done. > With the trawl floats, can you pick up a small size float that will fit in the gaps > between the larger floats? Could give you a lot more flotation for a smaller size. > Cheers Alan > > > > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, February 6, 2016 2:47 PM > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: deep diver > > Progress is good on my new build. I have named it" Elementary 3000" The sub is all mocked up with interior painted and port installed. Tomorrow I drive down to the USA to pick up my trawl floats and I can fabricate the fibreglass MBT that also houses the trawl floats. I see water in my near future! > Hank > > On Friday, February 5, 2016 6:42 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0277.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 19858 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 09:02:53 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 09:02:53 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software Message-ID: <56B5FD0D.30604@psubs.org> The latest version of the STS Sub Design Software written by Sean Stevenson is up on the web site. WWW.PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> Design Tools -> Calculators & Data Sheets From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 10:51:50 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 10:51:50 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull Message-ID: <56B61696.4070807@psubs.org> Anyone have a home-brewed design for electrical thru-hull that I can adapt for the K-boat? Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 13:39:09 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 10:39:09 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham / Vancouver conference In-Reply-To: <1328309679.123044.1454724469790.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160205074624.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a5d6c06ed6.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <004b01d1607a$84a864c0$8df92e40$@telus.net> <1328309679.123044.1454724469790.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001d1610d$abf22fa0$03d68ee0$@telus.net> Thanks, Alan. That's the pic. Do you plan on attending the conference this year? I mean the psubs conference, not comic-con! Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, February 5, 2016 6:08 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham / Vancouver conference Here we go Tim, this was a typical Canadian woman. _____ From: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Saturday, February 6, 2016 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham / Vancouver conference Well, if your profession is busking then you better be entertaining. Hey Alan, why not post up the pic of the young female cutie that you met when you were here? the one you posted on your Face Book. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, February 5, 2016 6:46 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham / Vancouver conference What the hell? hahahaha -Scott Waters -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham / Vancouver conference From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Date: Fri, February 05, 2016 12:24 am To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Hi Tim & Hank, just going through my conference videos & came across this one. https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player &v=vPBNmm66KSg Am wondering if this is a typical Canadian or are they just like that in Vancouver ? Maybe the American members have an opinion. Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 13:44:57 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 10:44:57 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull In-Reply-To: <56B61696.4070807@psubs.org> References: <56B61696.4070807@psubs.org> Message-ID: <000501d1610e$7a981a40$6fc84ec0$@telus.net> Jon, Psubs member Brent Hartwig posted on Psubs Projects an epoxy filled electrical thru-hull design. No depth rating specified. https://onedrive.live.com/?id=5085D10EB6AFE47C!748&cid=5085D10EB6AFE47C Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, February 6, 2016 7:52 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull Anyone have a home-brewed design for electrical thru-hull that I can adapt for the K-boat? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 14:22:08 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 11:22:08 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull Message-ID: <20160206112208.A8E1DD83@m0086238.ppops.net> Tim, John, Isn't there an issue with water migrating down that round wire like that ? Also I'm looking for a good co-ax thru hull design. Brian Cox --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 10:44:57 -0800 Jon, Psubs member Brent Hartwig posted on Psubs Projects an epoxy filled electrical thru-hull design. No depth rating specified. https://onedrive.live.com/?id=5085D10EB6AFE47C!748&cid=5085D10EB6AFE47C Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, February 6, 2016 7:52 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull Anyone have a home-brewed design for electrical thru-hull that I can adapt for the K-boat? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 14:24:48 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 11:24:48 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull In-Reply-To: <20160206112208.A8E1DD83@m0086238.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1454786688.97741.YahooMailMobile@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Jon, What do you have to work with in terms of hole in hull. What amp are you trying to run through. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 14:38:24 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 14:38:24 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull In-Reply-To: <56B61696.4070807@psubs.org> References: <56B61696.4070807@psubs.org> Message-ID: I have some high-current ones for the battery pods, which don't use potting. It consists of three concentric parts; a 2" stainless bar welded into the hull, a nylon spacer, and a copper bar. The SS and the spacer are both cored with a step to prevent extrusion, and the copper and nylon have O ring grooves. So the thing just disassembles with no need for potting. If memory serves, James made replicas on his boat. Of course, this solution is only suitable for high amp applications, and not something appropriate for electronics with lots of contacts. Best, Alec On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 10:51 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Anyone have a home-brewed design for electrical thru-hull that I can adapt > for the K-boat? > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 14:52:01 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 20:52:01 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull In-Reply-To: <56B61696.4070807@psubs.org> References: <56B61696.4070807@psubs.org> Message-ID: High Amp? Drawing is a 100 Amp single contact Br Emile -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zaterdag 6 februari 2016 16:52 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull Anyone have a home-brewed design for electrical thru-hull that I can adapt for the K-boat? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 16mm2_pen.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 16695 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 15:02:48 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 12:02:48 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull In-Reply-To: <20160206112208.A8E1DD83@m0086238.ppops.net> References: <20160206112208.A8E1DD83@m0086238.ppops.net> Message-ID: <001701d16119$5b5be200$1213a600$@telus.net> Brian, That is a critical issue. Brent does suggest that threaded bolts be used rather than bare wire. There has been other discussions about water creep through broken wire insulation. Bonding the epoxy to the insulation would be critical or using a more pliable compound rather than epoxy that is squeezed tighter under pressure to increase its resiliency to water creep. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, February 6, 2016 11:22 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull Tim, John, Isn't there an issue with water migrating down that round wire like that ? Also I'm looking for a good co-ax thru hull design. Brian Cox --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 10:44:57 -0800 Jon, Psubs member Brent Hartwig posted on Psubs Projects an epoxy filled electrical thru-hull design. No depth rating specified. https://onedrive.live.com/?id=5085D10EB6AFE47C!748&cid=5085D10EB6AFE47C Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, February 6, 2016 7:52 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull Anyone have a home-brewed design for electrical thru-hull that I can adapt for the K-boat? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 15:07:45 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 09:07:45 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Through hull penetrator In-Reply-To: <626353363.4376138.1447408363173.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <626353363.4376138.1447408363173.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <626353363.4376138.1447408363173.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jon, I sent this email out last year as an idea for using castable rubber in a electrical penetrator. Hank is already doing something similar minus the castable rubber. The idea is to buy a bronze reducer fitting of appropriate size from a marine supplier & machine an o-ring grove in it. The bronze fitting Preferably has a conical reduction shape ( not shown in diagram ). The reducer compresses the epoxy under pressure in to the narrow area & stops it extruding through. Doug was having all sorts of problems epoxying pins straight through a fitting without reduction. In this iteration I epoxy the wires & sheath in to the reducer. You could use pins which would be more in line with G. L. as if the wires are sheared water could run through the individual wire sheaths, but bend the pins. I looked closely at how my subconn penetrators were made, & they mold a thin rubber sheath over the cable about an inch back from where it enters the penetrator. So as the wiring sheath compresses under pressure this rubber sheath moves with it. The drawing isn't the greatest but I can elaborate if interested. I have a 3000 psi test cylinder to test these but haven't got round to it. As this has created a lot of interest, I thought I'd follow up with a couple of drawings of my through hull idea :) (Attached at bottom.) I am using a common reducer fitting to butt or key the epoxy. There are standard reducer fittings with o-rings. I am going to silicone over the outer part of the fitting & along the cable jacket. Then mold over this with the castable rubber to tidy it up. The theory is the silicone will compress under pressure on to the jacket (which should itself compress), & seal the jacket better than just epoxy. I looked at a long video of Doug Jackson making through hulls for his rov by epoxying in brass pins. They were failing badly in most cases. I will never trust epoxy again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDZQIDkWs4w Regards Alan From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, November 13, 2015 10:52 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Castable Rubber Was thinking about home made electrical through hulls & came across this castable silicone rubber. How to make a moldable castable rubber (homemade Sugru, Oogroo) How to make a moldable castable rubber (homemade Sugr... View on www.youtube.com Preview by Yahoo Basically it's builders silicone mixed with corn flour about 50/50. There are other recipes with builders silicone & baby powder. My thought was to pot wires inside a suitable bronze or SS threaded fitting & encase the electrical sheathing where it enters the fitting with straight silicone. Then when hardened, cast the silicone / corn flour mix over the top to tidy it up. The simple recipe may have a lot of other applications. Cheers Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: through hull 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 103605 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: through hull 2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 41717 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: reducer fitting with o-ring.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 10152 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 15:17:31 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 14:17:31 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull In-Reply-To: <56B61696.4070807@psubs.org> References: <56B61696.4070807@psubs.org> Message-ID: Jon, I know this is a DIY group and we like to do it our selves AMAP to cut cost but for me, there areas like when we put holes in the boat that is makes sense to buy it off the shelf. Thanks to you, we have a wonderful 10% discount with Subconn products through MacArtney. The guy I have dealt with for the last several years is Jacobo Aguilar (jag at macartney.com) is great. What I do is work up an excel spreadsheet of the parts I need and send it to him and request the psubs discount and he handles it with no problems. I realize that most folks first reaction is that subsea penetrators... expensive. But I have found the Subconn parts that I have purchased to be reasonable. As an example, I am working with a group of ME students on a project to develop a new variable pitch propeller for my boat and a test rig measure the bollard thrust. They needed a Subonn 50A inline subsea connector to made with my existing thruster bulkhead fitting I use. The cost for the part (Subconn ILB2F) was $66.35 plus $9.72 for the DLSB locking sleeve. MacArtney's web site has the best documentation for the Subconn products. To me there enough DIY required on all the other 10,000 things you have to do to build a boat so for making holes in the hull for electrical penetrations, I vote for Off-The-.Shelf. Cliff On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 9:51 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Anyone have a home-brewed design for electrical thru-hull that I can adapt > for the K-boat? > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 15:41:26 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 20:41:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless thruster test 2 In-Reply-To: <1175829109.221165.1454753886534.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1175829109.221165.1454753886534.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1175829109.221165.1454753886534.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2018275803.315329.1454791286899.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Alan James To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, February 6, 2016 11:18 PM Subject: Brushless thruster test 2 This is mainly for Cliff's benefit, as he is going to be doing somethrust testing.Tested 2 different props out. One being the same as the first test, the yamaha 7&1/4" x 4" pitch?& the second was a Vetus 6 blade 108 mm ( 4") ?for 25kg bow thruster. No stats on the pitch but itlooks about 180mm or 7".My watts measurement is done off the battery whereas other people quote their output at the motor.I am comparing my motors performance to statistics from commercial thruster brands but not surewhere they are measuring there power from.Had some wacky results from the yamaha prop again. It was the more powerful & I think I am getting whatis called a "short circuit" effect through having the motor about 28" out from the pool edge & in about 3ftof water. Short circuit is where an edi is formed & the water moves from the output to the input in a semicircle around the thruster. This is caused by water bouncing off a pool wall, or in my case the inlet flow?bouncing off the wall or pool bottom.I was running off a 40V 5 amp ?Lipo battery & the voltage dropped a bit during the tests.Ist test was 10 kg (22 lb ) at 500 W?2nd 11 kg at 1000 W & 39 V3rd 15 kg at a huge 3,400 W4th 37 kg at 3,800 W & 85 amps.As you can see some inconsistent results there, and some missing figures like amp draw, as I neededan assistant to read the figures.Next is the Vetus prop.1st 10kg ?547 W ?39 V2nd 11 kg ?634 W ?11 amps ?37.81 V3rd ?15 kg ?998 W ?27 amps4th ?20 kg ?1700 W ?39 V5th ?24 kg ?2500 WIt's amazing what a difference a prop makes.In conclusion, I need to ditch this rig & buy a longer plank of wood to do tests in the middle of the deep end.I have a more sophisticated volt / amp meter that stores results & plots on a computer & I need to employ that.I need to buy a similar motor but a sensored version, as there was too much cogging at low speed.Sensoreless motors read the back emf produced by the motor to ascertain the position of the rotors & can stop /start & rotate backwards on low speed where there isn't enough back emf produced.I need to replace my motor controller with a sensored controller, probably Kelly & buy a bigger life po4 battery. ? ?I also want to wire the motor to a WYE configuration which will give me .73 less rpm. So will gear it down a bit.Some good news is I have found people on boating forums adapting these RC brushless motors & an absoluteguru who uses these motors for traction vehicles & has posted pages of information on them.Cheers Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 16:35:23 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 16:35:23 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull In-Reply-To: References: <56B61696.4070807@psubs.org> Message-ID: <56B6671B.9000402@psubs.org> I hope you're getting more than 10% Cliff, should be 30%. I need the penetrator series (nine of them) for the K600 and even with the discount they are wicked expensive. I have the original penetrators and all of them appear to be in good shape but at more than 35 years old now I don't think I should trust them. Jon On 2/6/2016 3:17 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Jon, I know this is a DIY group and we like to do it our selves AMAP > to cut cost but for me, there areas like when we put holes in the > boat that is makes sense to buy it off the shelf. Thanks to you, we > have a wonderful 10% discount with Subconn products through > MacArtney. The guy I have dealt with for the last several years is > Jacobo Aguilar (jag at macartney.com ) is > great. What I do is work up an excel spreadsheet of the parts I need > and send it to him and request the psubs discount and he handles it > with no problems. I realize that most folks first reaction is that > subsea penetrators... expensive. But I have found the Subconn parts > that I have purchased to be reasonable. As an example, I am working > with a group of ME students on a project to develop a new variable > pitch propeller for my boat and a test rig measure the bollard > thrust. They needed a Subonn 50A inline subsea connector to made with > my existing thruster bulkhead fitting I use. The cost for the part > (Subconn ILB2F) was $66.35 plus $9.72 for the DLSB locking sleeve. > MacArtney's web site has the best documentation for the Subconn products. > > To me there enough DIY required on all the other 10,000 things you > have to do to build a boat so for making holes in the hull for > electrical penetrations, I vote for Off-The-.Shelf. > > Cliff > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 16:44:15 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 16:44:15 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Through hull penetrator In-Reply-To: References: <626353363.4376138.1447408363173.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <626353363.4376138.1447408363173.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56B6692F.2070609@psubs.org> Thanks Alan. I think Doug would have had much better luck had he used threaded rod instead of wire. His method is essentially what I am looking at doing however I would use a tapered end as you suggested as well as threaded rod for the conductors to give the epoxy something to grip onto. Emile presented an interesting design some time ago in which he press fit conductors through nylon or some other solid plastic material. My bigger issue from a DIY perspective is that I will require some machining no matter what method I choose. The K-600 uses a smooth bore through-hull that must be sealed on the outside face by an o-ring. See attached photo for type of penetrator I need. On 2/6/2016 3:07 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Jon, > I sent this email out last year as an idea for using castable rubber > in a electrical penetrator. > Hank is already doing something similar minus the castable rubber. > The idea is to buy a bronze reducer fitting of appropriate size from a > marine supplier & machine > an o-ring grove in it. The bronze fitting Preferably has a conical > reduction shape ( not shown in diagram ). The reducer compresses the > epoxy under pressure in to the narrow area & stops it extruding > through. Doug was having all sorts of problems epoxying pins straight > through a fitting without reduction. > In this iteration I epoxy the wires & sheath in to the reducer. You > could use pins which would > be more in line with G. L. as if the wires are sheared water could run > through the individual > wire sheaths, but bend the pins. I looked closely at how my subconn > penetrators were made, & they mold a thin rubber sheath over the cable > about an inch back from where it enters the penetrator. So as > the wiring sheath compresses under pressure this rubber sheath moves > with it. The drawing isn't the greatest but I can elaborate if > interested. I have a 3000 psi test cylinder to test these but haven't > got round to it. > > As this has created a lot of interest, I thought I'd follow up with a > couple of drawings of my through hull idea :) (Attached at bottom.) > I am using a common reducer fitting to butt or key the epoxy. > There are standard reducer fittings with o-rings. > I am going to silicone over the outer part of the fitting & along the > cable jacket. Then mold over this with the castable rubber to > tidy it up. > The theory is the silicone will compress under pressure on to > the jacket (which should itself compress), & seal the jacket better > than just epoxy. > I looked at a long video of Doug Jackson making through hulls > for his rov by epoxying in brass pins. They were failing badly in most > cases. > I will never trust epoxy again. > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDZQIDkWs4w > Regards Alan > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: penetrator.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 17723 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 16:48:52 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 16:48:52 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull In-Reply-To: <1454786688.97741.YahooMailMobile@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1454786688.97741.YahooMailMobile@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56B66A44.7060707@psubs.org> Hank, See attached. It's just a smooth bored thru-hull sealed on the outside face by an o-ring. Jon On 2/6/2016 2:24 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Jon, > What do you have to work with in terms of hole in hull. What amp are > you trying to run through. > Hank > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: penetrator-1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 21353 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 17:29:55 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 16:29:55 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless thruster test 2 In-Reply-To: <2018275803.315329.1454791286899.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1175829109.221165.1454753886534.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1175829109.221165.1454753886534.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <2018275803.315329.1454791286899.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Alan. To reciprocate, attached are our initial test last week. The variable pitch prop is not out of the machine shop yet so main goal was to evaluate test rig with Minn Kota MKP-33 prop ( two blade, 4" pitch, 11" diameter) that matches with the MK-101 lower unit. We are going to use the MK-101 and MKP-33 prop as the control for our new prop. We also tested a Kipawa 80/01 (3 bladed prop, 5"pitch, 11" diameter). The Kipawa prop will fit in my ducted nozzle so measured the bollard thrust with and without the nozzle. We are still analyzing the data but some initial results. Bollard thrust of the MKP-33 of 67 lbs is low relative to the 101 lb rated thrust. A quick look on web shows that manufacture thrust rating are 30-40% higher than a bollard thrust test. Test rig is fully calibrated. With the Kipawa prop, the bollard thrust is about 10% higher when using the nozzle than without. BTW, this is an open water prop and is not designed to be used with this nozzle. A ducted nozzle prop needs to have more of a square tip to keep water from moving from the high pressure side of the blade to the low pressure side. Like you my initial reaction is that we could be having the same boundary or end effect because of the proximity to the pool wall. We did prove the system worked. Not sure why both rpm and current are dropping over time when the measured battery voltage is constant? Next week, we are going to repeat the test with the thruster oriented along the long axis of the pool and see how the thrust compare. On your test, a couple of questions: 1) How long did run each test point? 2) On the first test sequence, 3800W and 81 lbs bollard thrust for input HP of over 5. This seems like quite a bit of power to develop this amount of thrust. Do attribute most of this to this boundary effect or recirculation affect? 3) On each of these test points, your are stepping through higher and higher power to the thruster. For any one of these points, how repeatable is thrust? 4) Thrust is proportional to density * n^2*Dia^4. I think to be able to make sense of data from different props with different diameters and pitches, you need an angular velocity or speed measurement. Can you measure the motor speed with this type of motor. For our test we use a proximity switch and count pulses to measure speed. 5) Are you planning on testing any ducted props? Cliff On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 2:41 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alan James > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Sent:* Saturday, February 6, 2016 11:18 PM > *Subject:* Brushless thruster test 2 > > This is mainly for Cliff's benefit, as he is going to be doing some > thrust testing. > Tested 2 different props out. One being the same as the first test, the > yamaha 7&1/4" x 4" pitch > & the second was a Vetus 6 blade 108 mm ( 4") for 25kg bow thruster. No > stats on the pitch but it > looks about 180mm or 7". > My watts measurement is done off the battery whereas other people quote > their output at the motor. > I am comparing my motors performance to statistics from commercial > thruster brands but not sure > where they are measuring there power from. > Had some wacky results from the yamaha prop again. It was the more > powerful & I think I am getting what > is called a "short circuit" effect through having the motor about 28" out > from the pool edge & in about 3ft > of water. Short circuit is where an edi is formed & the water moves from > the output to the input in a semi > circle around the thruster. This is caused by water bouncing off a pool > wall, or in my case the inlet flow > bouncing off the wall or pool bottom. > I was running off a 40V 5 amp Lipo battery & the voltage dropped a bit > during the tests. > Ist test was 10 kg (22 lb ) at 500 W > 2nd 11 kg at 1000 W & 39 V > 3rd 15 kg at a huge 3,400 W > 4th 37 kg at 3,800 W & 85 amps. > As you can see some inconsistent results there, and some missing figures > like amp draw, as I needed > an assistant to read the figures. > Next is the Vetus prop. > 1st 10kg 547 W 39 V > 2nd 11 kg 634 W 11 amps 37.81 V > 3rd 15 kg 998 W 27 amps > 4th 20 kg 1700 W 39 V > 5th 24 kg 2500 W > It's amazing what a difference a prop makes. > In conclusion, I need to ditch this rig & buy a longer plank of wood to do > tests in the middle of the deep end. > I have a more sophisticated volt / amp meter that stores results & plots > on a computer & I need to employ that. > I need to buy a similar motor but a sensored version, as there was too > much cogging at low speed. > Sensoreless motors read the back emf produced by the motor to ascertain > the position of the rotors & can stop /start > & rotate backwards on low speed where there isn't enough back emf produced. > I need to replace my motor controller with a sensored controller, probably > Kelly & buy a bigger life po4 battery. > I also want to wire the motor to a WYE configuration which will give me > .73 less rpm. So will gear it down a bit. > Some good news is I have found people on boating forums adapting these RC > brushless motors & an absolute > guru who uses these motors for traction vehicles & has posted pages of > information on them. > Cheers Alan > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Initial bollard Thrust test 2-2-16.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 443988 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 17:33:16 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 16:33:16 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull In-Reply-To: <56B6671B.9000402@psubs.org> References: <56B61696.4070807@psubs.org> <56B6671B.9000402@psubs.org> Message-ID: Maybe it was 30% I don't have access to their price list so not sure what discount I am actually getting. cliff On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 3:35 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I hope you're getting more than 10% Cliff, should be 30%. I need the > penetrator series (nine of them) for the K600 and even with the discount > they are wicked expensive. I have the original penetrators and all of them > appear to be in good shape but at more than 35 years old now I don't think > I should trust them. > > Jon > > > On 2/6/2016 3:17 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Jon, I know this is a DIY group and we like to do it our selves AMAP to > cut cost but for me, there areas like when we put holes in the boat that is > makes sense to buy it off the shelf. Thanks to you, we have a wonderful > 10% discount with Subconn products through MacArtney. The guy I have dealt > with for the last several years is Jacobo Aguilar (jag at macartney.com) is > great. What I do is work up an excel spreadsheet of the parts I need and > send it to him and request the psubs discount and he handles it with no > problems. I realize that most folks first reaction is that subsea > penetrators... expensive. But I have found the Subconn parts that I have > purchased to be reasonable. As an example, I am working with a group of ME > students on a project to develop a new variable pitch propeller for my boat > and a test rig measure the bollard thrust. They needed a Subonn 50A > inline subsea connector to made with my existing thruster bulkhead fitting > I use. The cost for the part (Subconn ILB2F) was $66.35 plus $9.72 for the > DLSB locking sleeve. MacArtney's web site has the best documentation for > the Subconn products. > > To me there enough DIY required on all the other 10,000 things you have > to do to build a boat so for making holes in the hull for electrical > penetrations, I vote for Off-The-.Shelf. > > Cliff > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 17:34:40 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 22:34:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull In-Reply-To: <56B66A44.7060707@psubs.org> References: <56B66A44.7060707@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1454399960.32129.1454798080270.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Jon,You have a couple of options, you can machine a piece to fit with an o-ring groove in it and make a penetrator from that or you could thread your opening ?and make a penetrator to fit that. ?How many wires do you need to go through? ? ?I would not use a smooth rod in a home made penetrator. ?I always use a small threaded rod and have had good success. ?I tested the two I made for Gamma to well over 600 psi and they were perfect. ?If you like I am happy to make you a couple to fit your bore. ?Just get me the exact measurement of the bore. ?You have been very helpful to me and others so it would be a pleasure to help you out.Hank On Saturday, February 6, 2016 2:49 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, See attached.? It's just a smooth bored thru-hull sealed on the outside face by an o-ring. Jon On 2/6/2016 2:24 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: | Jon, What do you have to work with in terms of hole in hull. What amp are you trying to run through. Hank | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 18:02:00 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 15:02:00 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull In-Reply-To: <1454399960.32129.1454798080270.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <56B66A44.7060707@psubs.org> <1454399960.32129.1454798080270.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005901d16132$63fd78b0$2bf86a10$@telus.net> Hey Hank, While you build the penetrators for Jon could you take a few pics and post them along with written details on the project site? Alan, you as well, please. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, February 6, 2016 2:35 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull Hi Jon, You have a couple of options, you can machine a piece to fit with an o-ring groove in it and make a penetrator from that or you could thread your opening and make a penetrator to fit that. How many wires do you need to go through? I would not use a smooth rod in a home made penetrator. I always use a small threaded rod and have had good success. I tested the two I made for Gamma to well over 600 psi and they were perfect. If you like I am happy to make you a couple to fit your bore. Just get me the exact measurement of the bore. You have been very helpful to me and others so it would be a pleasure to help you out. Hank On Saturday, February 6, 2016 2:49 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hank, See attached. It's just a smooth bored thru-hull sealed on the outside face by an o-ring. Jon On 2/6/2016 2:24 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, What do you have to work with in terms of hole in hull. What amp are you trying to run through. Hank _____ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 19:50:19 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 00:50:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless thruster test 2 In-Reply-To: References: <1175829109.221165.1454753886534.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1175829109.221165.1454753886534.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <2018275803.315329.1454791286899.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1751997664.420835.1454806219812.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Cliff,thanks for the data, am interested in any more you get.I wrote an email on testing with a link to a bollard test set up for a DPV.?If you didn't get it I will re-send. I have missed some emails lately.The Vetus prop is a square ended prop designed for nozzles. I didn't tryit with a nozzle. They have a range of props.Vetus, 6 Blade Bow Thruster Replacement Propeller | ? | | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | Vetus, 6 Blade Bow Thruster Replacement PropellerDue to your browser's configuration you can not order online. Please order by phone or contact us. Vetus, 6 Blade Bow Thruster Replacement Propeller Mfr. | | | | View on www.go2marine.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | I am not sure whether you can get a left & right handed propeller.I didn't run the tests long. I had a smooth start option programmed in to my controllerso it was a bit slow getting to full throttle. As per the instructions in the email link I sited,it is best to get it up to full speed fast before you create a strong flowing current.This is most probably why your amps went down, as the water was initially stationary& then started flowing & lowering the load. Typically a displacement boat can have 50% propeller slip or more soyou could have been doing a bit of a wheel spin initially & getting the revs up, then they might have come downas the current flowed.I am not sure why I got the large 3,800 W & only 81 lb thrust unless something is shorting to the aluminium housingunder load. It could be boundary effect???I have measured the max rpm out of water but can't measure it in water at the moment. That willbe my stage two testing.The thrust results were repeatable on the yamaha prop up to 10 kg (22 lb) & then they seemed to go a bit haywire,so this indicates boundary effects.The 6 blade Vetus prop was more consistant above this, but maximum thrust was 24 kg at 2,500 W.How many Watts were you drawing from the battery to get the 67 lb thrust?I will need to re-think this & order stuff in from overseas & maybe make another housing before I test again.Cheers Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2016 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless thruster test 2 Thanks Alan.? To reciprocate, attached are our?initial test last week.? The variable pitch prop is not out of the machine shop yet so main goal was to evaluate test rig with Minn Kota MKP-33 prop ( two blade, 4" pitch, 11" diameter) ?that matches with the MK-101 lower unit. We are going to use the MK-101 and MKP-33 prop as the control for our new prop.? We also tested a Kipawa 80/01 (3 bladed prop, 5"pitch, 11" diameter).? The Kipawa prop will fit in my ducted nozzle so measured the bollard thrust with and without the nozzle.? We are still analyzing the data but some initial results.? Bollard thrust of the MKP-33 of 67 lbs is low relative to the 101 lb rated thrust.? A quick look on web shows that manufacture thrust rating are?30-40% higher than a bollard thrust test.? Test rig is fully calibrated.? With the Kipawa prop, the bollard thrust is about 10% higher when using the nozzle than without.? BTW, this is an open water prop and is not designed to be used with this nozzle.?A ducted nozzle prop needs to?have more of a square tip to keep water from moving from the high pressure side of the?blade to the low pressure side.? ?Like you my initial reaction is that we could be having the same boundary or end effect because of the proximity to the pool wall.? We did prove the system worked.?Not sure why both?rpm and current are dropping over time?when the?measured battery voltage is constant?? ?Next week, we are going to repeat the test with the thruster oriented along the long axis of the pool and see how the thrust compare. On your test, a couple of questions:1) How long did run each test point? 2) On the first test sequence, 3800W and 81 lbs bollard thrust for input HP of over 5.? This seems like quite a bit of power to develop this amount of thrust. Do attribute most of this to this boundary effect or recirculation affect?3) On each of these test points, your are stepping through higher and higher power to the thruster.? For any one of these points, how repeatable is thrust?4) Thrust is proportional to density * n^2*Dia^4.? I think to be able to make sense of data from different props with different diameters and pitches, you need an angular velocity or speed measurement.? Can you measure the motor speed with this type of motor.? For our test we use a proximity switch and count pulses to measure speed.5) Are you planning on testing any ducted props? Cliff On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 2:41 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: From: Alan James To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, February 6, 2016 11:18 PM Subject: Brushless thruster test 2 This is mainly for Cliff's benefit, as he is going to be doing somethrust testing.Tested 2 different props out. One being the same as the first test, the yamaha 7&1/4" x 4" pitch?& the second was a Vetus 6 blade 108 mm ( 4") ?for 25kg bow thruster. No stats on the pitch but itlooks about 180mm or 7".My watts measurement is done off the battery whereas other people quote their output at the motor.I am comparing my motors performance to statistics from commercial thruster brands but not surewhere they are measuring there power from.Had some wacky results from the yamaha prop again. It was the more powerful & I think I am getting whatis called a "short circuit" effect through having the motor about 28" out from the pool edge & in about 3ftof water. Short circuit is where an edi is formed & the water moves from the output to the input in a semicircle around the thruster. This is caused by water bouncing off a pool wall, or in my case the inlet flow?bouncing off the wall or pool bottom.I was running off a 40V 5 amp ?Lipo battery & the voltage dropped a bit during the tests.Ist test was 10 kg (22 lb ) at 500 W?2nd 11 kg at 1000 W & 39 V3rd 15 kg at a huge 3,400 W4th 37 kg at 3,800 W & 85 amps.As you can see some inconsistent results there, and some missing figures like amp draw, as I neededan assistant to read the figures.Next is the Vetus prop.1st 10kg ?547 W ?39 V2nd 11 kg ?634 W ?11 amps ?37.81 V3rd ?15 kg ?998 W ?27 amps4th ?20 kg ?1700 W ?39 V5th ?24 kg ?2500 WIt's amazing what a difference a prop makes.In conclusion, I need to ditch this rig & buy a longer plank of wood to do tests in the middle of the deep end.I have a more sophisticated volt / amp meter that stores results & plots on a computer & I need to employ that.I need to buy a similar motor but a sensored version, as there was too much cogging at low speed.Sensoreless motors read the back emf produced by the motor to ascertain the position of the rotors & can stop /start & rotate backwards on low speed where there isn't enough back emf produced.I need to replace my motor controller with a sensored controller, probably Kelly & buy a bigger life po4 battery. ? ?I also want to wire the motor to a WYE configuration which will give me .73 less rpm. So will gear it down a bit.Some good news is I have found people on boating forums adapting these RC brushless motors & an absoluteguru who uses these motors for traction vehicles & has posted pages of information on them.Cheers Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 20:31:30 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 01:31:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless thruster test 2 In-Reply-To: <1751997664.420835.1454806219812.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1175829109.221165.1454753886534.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1175829109.221165.1454753886534.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <2018275803.315329.1454791286899.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1751997664.420835.1454806219812.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2057626213.426517.1454808690627.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Clif,in this entertaining Gizmag review of the Deep Flight Dragon, thejournalist does a "wheely" with the vertical rear thrusters & is at full throttlegoing nowhere.?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7AIlmrRv4o This is 4 minutes in. They hadn't fully written all the codefor the sub & wrote in some "anti Wheely" code that night.I assume they would either have a slower ramp up programmed in to?the speed controller (common option in a lot of controllers), or they relatethe rpm to the current draw or similar.Another thought on my high amp draw & low thrust was that the scales I were?using only go up to 40 kg. I had tared them & might have actually been at their limit.So could have been thrusting a lot higher.Alan From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2016 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless thruster test 2 Hi Cliff,thanks for the data, am interested in any more you get.I wrote an email on testing with a link to a bollard test set up for a DPV.?If you didn't get it I will re-send. I have missed some emails lately.The Vetus prop is a square ended prop designed for nozzles. I didn't tryit with a nozzle. They have a range of props.Vetus, 6 Blade Bow Thruster Replacement Propeller | ? | | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | Vetus, 6 Blade Bow Thruster Replacement PropellerDue to your browser's configuration you can not order online. Please order by phone or contact us. Vetus, 6 Blade Bow Thruster Replacement Propeller Mfr. | | | | View on www.go2marine.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | I am not sure whether you can get a left & right handed propeller.I didn't run the tests long. I had a smooth start option programmed in to my controllerso it was a bit slow getting to full throttle. As per the instructions in the email link I sited,it is best to get it up to full speed fast before you create a strong flowing current.This is most probably why your amps went down, as the water was initially stationary& then started flowing & lowering the load. Typically a displacement boat can have 50% propeller slip or more soyou could have been doing a bit of a wheel spin initially & getting the revs up, then they might have come downas the current flowed.I am not sure why I got the large 3,800 W & only 81 lb thrust unless something is shorting to the aluminium housingunder load. It could be boundary effect???I have measured the max rpm out of water but can't measure it in water at the moment. That willbe my stage two testing.The thrust results were repeatable on the yamaha prop up to 10 kg (22 lb) & then they seemed to go a bit haywire,so this indicates boundary effects.The 6 blade Vetus prop was more consistant above this, but maximum thrust was 24 kg at 2,500 W.How many Watts were you drawing from the battery to get the 67 lb thrust?I will need to re-think this & order stuff in from overseas & maybe make another housing before I test again.Cheers Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2016 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless thruster test 2 Thanks Alan.? To reciprocate, attached are our?initial test last week.? The variable pitch prop is not out of the machine shop yet so main goal was to evaluate test rig with Minn Kota MKP-33 prop ( two blade, 4" pitch, 11" diameter) ?that matches with the MK-101 lower unit. We are going to use the MK-101 and MKP-33 prop as the control for our new prop.? We also tested a Kipawa 80/01 (3 bladed prop, 5"pitch, 11" diameter).? The Kipawa prop will fit in my ducted nozzle so measured the bollard thrust with and without the nozzle.? We are still analyzing the data but some initial results.? Bollard thrust of the MKP-33 of 67 lbs is low relative to the 101 lb rated thrust.? A quick look on web shows that manufacture thrust rating are?30-40% higher than a bollard thrust test.? Test rig is fully calibrated.? With the Kipawa prop, the bollard thrust is about 10% higher when using the nozzle than without.? BTW, this is an open water prop and is not designed to be used with this nozzle.?A ducted nozzle prop needs to?have more of a square tip to keep water from moving from the high pressure side of the?blade to the low pressure side.? ?Like you my initial reaction is that we could be having the same boundary or end effect because of the proximity to the pool wall.? We did prove the system worked.?Not sure why both?rpm and current are dropping over time?when the?measured battery voltage is constant?? ?Next week, we are going to repeat the test with the thruster oriented along the long axis of the pool and see how the thrust compare. On your test, a couple of questions:1) How long did run each test point? 2) On the first test sequence, 3800W and 81 lbs bollard thrust for input HP of over 5.? This seems like quite a bit of power to develop this amount of thrust. Do attribute most of this to this boundary effect or recirculation affect?3) On each of these test points, your are stepping through higher and higher power to the thruster.? For any one of these points, how repeatable is thrust?4) Thrust is proportional to density * n^2*Dia^4.? I think to be able to make sense of data from different props with different diameters and pitches, you need an angular velocity or speed measurement.? Can you measure the motor speed with this type of motor.? For our test we use a proximity switch and count pulses to measure speed.5) Are you planning on testing any ducted props? Cliff On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 2:41 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: From: Alan James To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, February 6, 2016 11:18 PM Subject: Brushless thruster test 2 This is mainly for Cliff's benefit, as he is going to be doing somethrust testing.Tested 2 different props out. One being the same as the first test, the yamaha 7&1/4" x 4" pitch?& the second was a Vetus 6 blade 108 mm ( 4") ?for 25kg bow thruster. No stats on the pitch but itlooks about 180mm or 7".My watts measurement is done off the battery whereas other people quote their output at the motor.I am comparing my motors performance to statistics from commercial thruster brands but not surewhere they are measuring there power from.Had some wacky results from the yamaha prop again. It was the more powerful & I think I am getting whatis called a "short circuit" effect through having the motor about 28" out from the pool edge & in about 3ftof water. Short circuit is where an edi is formed & the water moves from the output to the input in a semicircle around the thruster. This is caused by water bouncing off a pool wall, or in my case the inlet flow?bouncing off the wall or pool bottom.I was running off a 40V 5 amp ?Lipo battery & the voltage dropped a bit during the tests.Ist test was 10 kg (22 lb ) at 500 W?2nd 11 kg at 1000 W & 39 V3rd 15 kg at a huge 3,400 W4th 37 kg at 3,800 W & 85 amps.As you can see some inconsistent results there, and some missing figures like amp draw, as I neededan assistant to read the figures.Next is the Vetus prop.1st 10kg ?547 W ?39 V2nd 11 kg ?634 W ?11 amps ?37.81 V3rd ?15 kg ?998 W ?27 amps4th ?20 kg ?1700 W ?39 V5th ?24 kg ?2500 WIt's amazing what a difference a prop makes.In conclusion, I need to ditch this rig & buy a longer plank of wood to do tests in the middle of the deep end.I have a more sophisticated volt / amp meter that stores results & plots on a computer & I need to employ that.I need to buy a similar motor but a sensored version, as there was too much cogging at low speed.Sensoreless motors read the back emf produced by the motor to ascertain the position of the rotors & can stop /start & rotate backwards on low speed where there isn't enough back emf produced.I need to replace my motor controller with a sensored controller, probably Kelly & buy a bigger life po4 battery. ? ?I also want to wire the motor to a WYE configuration which will give me .73 less rpm. So will gear it down a bit.Some good news is I have found people on boating forums adapting these RC brushless motors & an absoluteguru who uses these motors for traction vehicles & has posted pages of information on them.Cheers Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 21:18:25 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 21:18:25 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless thruster test 2 In-Reply-To: References: <1175829109.221165.1454753886534.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1175829109.221165.1454753886534.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <2018275803.315329.1454791286899.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Great stuff Cliff! Do you know how the Kipawa compares to the standard MK prop without the nozzle? Best, Alec On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Alan. To reciprocate, attached are our initial test last week. > The variable pitch prop is not out of the machine shop yet so main goal was > to evaluate test rig with Minn Kota MKP-33 prop ( two blade, 4" pitch, 11" > diameter) that matches with the MK-101 lower unit. We are going to use the > MK-101 and MKP-33 prop as the control for our new prop. We also tested a > Kipawa 80/01 (3 bladed prop, 5"pitch, 11" diameter). The Kipawa prop will > fit in my ducted nozzle so measured the bollard thrust with and without the > nozzle. We are still analyzing the data but some initial results. Bollard > thrust of the MKP-33 of 67 lbs is low relative to the 101 lb rated thrust. > A quick look on web shows that manufacture thrust rating are 30-40% higher > than a bollard thrust test. Test rig is fully calibrated. With the Kipawa > prop, the bollard thrust is about 10% higher when using the nozzle than > without. BTW, this is an open water prop and is not designed to be used > with this nozzle. A ducted nozzle prop needs to have more of a square tip > to keep water from moving from the high pressure side of the blade to the > low pressure side. Like you my initial reaction is that we could be > having the same boundary or end effect because of the proximity to the pool > wall. We did prove the system worked. Not sure why both rpm and current > are dropping over time when the measured battery voltage is constant? > Next week, we are going to repeat the test with the thruster oriented > along the long axis of the pool and see how the thrust compare. > > On your test, a couple of questions: > 1) How long did run each test point? > 2) On the first test sequence, 3800W and 81 lbs bollard thrust for input > HP of over 5. This seems like quite a bit of power to develop this amount > of thrust. Do attribute most of this to this boundary effect or > recirculation affect? > 3) On each of these test points, your are stepping through higher and > higher power to the thruster. For any one of these points, how repeatable > is thrust? > 4) Thrust is proportional to density * n^2*Dia^4. I think to be able to > make sense of data from different props with different diameters and > pitches, you need an angular velocity or speed measurement. Can you > measure the motor speed with this type of motor. For our test we use a > proximity switch and count pulses to measure speed. > 5) Are you planning on testing any ducted props? > > Cliff > > > On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 2:41 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Alan James >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> *Sent:* Saturday, February 6, 2016 11:18 PM >> *Subject:* Brushless thruster test 2 >> >> This is mainly for Cliff's benefit, as he is going to be doing some >> thrust testing. >> Tested 2 different props out. One being the same as the first test, the >> yamaha 7&1/4" x 4" pitch >> & the second was a Vetus 6 blade 108 mm ( 4") for 25kg bow thruster. No >> stats on the pitch but it >> looks about 180mm or 7". >> My watts measurement is done off the battery whereas other people quote >> their output at the motor. >> I am comparing my motors performance to statistics from commercial >> thruster brands but not sure >> where they are measuring there power from. >> Had some wacky results from the yamaha prop again. It was the more >> powerful & I think I am getting what >> is called a "short circuit" effect through having the motor about 28" out >> from the pool edge & in about 3ft >> of water. Short circuit is where an edi is formed & the water moves from >> the output to the input in a semi >> circle around the thruster. This is caused by water bouncing off a pool >> wall, or in my case the inlet flow >> bouncing off the wall or pool bottom. >> I was running off a 40V 5 amp Lipo battery & the voltage dropped a bit >> during the tests. >> Ist test was 10 kg (22 lb ) at 500 W >> 2nd 11 kg at 1000 W & 39 V >> 3rd 15 kg at a huge 3,400 W >> 4th 37 kg at 3,800 W & 85 amps. >> As you can see some inconsistent results there, and some missing figures >> like amp draw, as I needed >> an assistant to read the figures. >> Next is the Vetus prop. >> 1st 10kg 547 W 39 V >> 2nd 11 kg 634 W 11 amps 37.81 V >> 3rd 15 kg 998 W 27 amps >> 4th 20 kg 1700 W 39 V >> 5th 24 kg 2500 W >> It's amazing what a difference a prop makes. >> In conclusion, I need to ditch this rig & buy a longer plank of wood to >> do tests in the middle of the deep end. >> I have a more sophisticated volt / amp meter that stores results & plots >> on a computer & I need to employ that. >> I need to buy a similar motor but a sensored version, as there was too >> much cogging at low speed. >> Sensoreless motors read the back emf produced by the motor to ascertain >> the position of the rotors & can stop /start >> & rotate backwards on low speed where there isn't enough back emf >> produced. >> I need to replace my motor controller with a sensored controller, >> probably Kelly & buy a bigger life po4 battery. >> I also want to wire the motor to a WYE configuration which will give >> me .73 less rpm. So will gear it down a bit. >> Some good news is I have found people on boating forums adapting these RC >> brushless motors & an absolute >> guru who uses these motors for traction vehicles & has posted pages of >> information on them. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 21:30:46 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 02:30:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless thruster test 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1650183387.323358.1454812246443.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Would you not get a more true idea of the thrust of your motor if it were moving. ?I would think a?centre pivot?arrangement with the thruster going in a circle would be more accurate than just measuring how much it can pull off the line. ?Hank On Saturday, February 6, 2016 7:18 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Great stuff Cliff! Do you know how the Kipawa compares to the standard MK prop without the nozzle? Best, Alec On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Alan.? To reciprocate, attached are our?initial test last week.? The variable pitch prop is not out of the machine shop yet so main goal was to evaluate test rig with Minn Kota MKP-33 prop ( two blade, 4" pitch, 11" diameter) ?that matches with the MK-101 lower unit. We are going to use the MK-101 and MKP-33 prop as the control for our new prop.? We also tested a Kipawa 80/01 (3 bladed prop, 5"pitch, 11" diameter).? The Kipawa prop will fit in my ducted nozzle so measured the bollard thrust with and without the nozzle.? We are still analyzing the data but some initial results.? Bollard thrust of the MKP-33 of 67 lbs is low relative to the 101 lb rated thrust.? A quick look on web shows that manufacture thrust rating are?30-40% higher than a bollard thrust test.? Test rig is fully calibrated.? With the Kipawa prop, the bollard thrust is about 10% higher when using the nozzle than without.? BTW, this is an open water prop and is not designed to be used with this nozzle.?A ducted nozzle prop needs to?have more of a square tip to keep water from moving from the high pressure side of the?blade to the low pressure side.? ?Like you my initial reaction is that we could be having the same boundary or end effect because of the proximity to the pool wall.? We did prove the system worked.?Not sure why both?rpm and current are dropping over time?when the?measured battery voltage is constant?? ?Next week, we are going to repeat the test with the thruster oriented along the long axis of the pool and see how the thrust compare. On your test, a couple of questions:1) How long did run each test point? 2) On the first test sequence, 3800W and 81 lbs bollard thrust for input HP of over 5.? This seems like quite a bit of power to develop this amount of thrust. Do attribute most of this to this boundary effect or recirculation affect?3) On each of these test points, your are stepping through higher and higher power to the thruster.? For any one of these points, how repeatable is thrust?4) Thrust is proportional to density * n^2*Dia^4.? I think to be able to make sense of data from different props with different diameters and pitches, you need an angular velocity or speed measurement.? Can you measure the motor speed with this type of motor.? For our test we use a proximity switch and count pulses to measure speed.5) Are you planning on testing any ducted props? Cliff On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 2:41 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: From: Alan James To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, February 6, 2016 11:18 PM Subject: Brushless thruster test 2 This is mainly for Cliff's benefit, as he is going to be doing somethrust testing.Tested 2 different props out. One being the same as the first test, the yamaha 7&1/4" x 4" pitch?& the second was a Vetus 6 blade 108 mm ( 4") ?for 25kg bow thruster. No stats on the pitch but itlooks about 180mm or 7".My watts measurement is done off the battery whereas other people quote their output at the motor.I am comparing my motors performance to statistics from commercial thruster brands but not surewhere they are measuring there power from.Had some wacky results from the yamaha prop again. It was the more powerful & I think I am getting whatis called a "short circuit" effect through having the motor about 28" out from the pool edge & in about 3ftof water. Short circuit is where an edi is formed & the water moves from the output to the input in a semicircle around the thruster. This is caused by water bouncing off a pool wall, or in my case the inlet flow?bouncing off the wall or pool bottom.I was running off a 40V 5 amp ?Lipo battery & the voltage dropped a bit during the tests.Ist test was 10 kg (22 lb ) at 500 W?2nd 11 kg at 1000 W & 39 V3rd 15 kg at a huge 3,400 W4th 37 kg at 3,800 W & 85 amps.As you can see some inconsistent results there, and some missing figures like amp draw, as I neededan assistant to read the figures.Next is the Vetus prop.1st 10kg ?547 W ?39 V2nd 11 kg ?634 W ?11 amps ?37.81 V3rd ?15 kg ?998 W ?27 amps4th ?20 kg ?1700 W ?39 V5th ?24 kg ?2500 WIt's amazing what a difference a prop makes.In conclusion, I need to ditch this rig & buy a longer plank of wood to do tests in the middle of the deep end.I have a more sophisticated volt / amp meter that stores results & plots on a computer & I need to employ that.I need to buy a similar motor but a sensored version, as there was too much cogging at low speed.Sensoreless motors read the back emf produced by the motor to ascertain the position of the rotors & can stop /start & rotate backwards on low speed where there isn't enough back emf produced.I need to replace my motor controller with a sensored controller, probably Kelly & buy a bigger life po4 battery. ? ?I also want to wire the motor to a WYE configuration which will give me .73 less rpm. So will gear it down a bit.Some good news is I have found people on boating forums adapting these RC brushless motors & an absoluteguru who uses these motors for traction vehicles & has posted pages of information on them.Cheers Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 21:34:27 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 02:34:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Through hull penetrator In-Reply-To: <56B6692F.2070609@psubs.org> References: <626353363.4376138.1447408363173.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <626353363.4376138.1447408363173.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <56B6692F.2070609@psubs.org> Message-ID: <822283246.380903.1454812467959.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Jon,for a start you could look at something like this boat through hull with 0-ring.http://www.hotboat.com/frm/showthread.php?t=4421 Or just google through hull, o-ring or face seal. Image search is good.However it may be better to cut a thread if the diameter hole matches a standard tap.You can google hole diameters for taps.If you went for the through hull perpetrator you may find that by the time you thread a fitting in to that,that the hole isn't big enough to fit your wires through, so backward engineer.However Hank seems the best option:)Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2016 10:44 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Through hull penetrator Thanks Alan.? I think Doug would have had much better luck had he used threaded rod instead of wire.? His method is essentially what I am looking at doing however I would use a tapered end as you suggested as well as threaded rod for the conductors to give the epoxy something to grip onto.? Emile presented an interesting design some time ago in which he press fit conductors through nylon or some other solid plastic material.? My bigger issue from a DIY perspective is that I will require some machining no matter what method I choose.? The K-600 uses a smooth bore through-hull that must be sealed on the outside face by an o-ring.? See attached photo for type of penetrator I need. On 2/6/2016 3:07 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, I sent this email out last year as an idea for using castable rubber in a electrical penetrator. Hank is already doing something similar minus the castable rubber. The idea is to buy a bronze reducer fitting of appropriate size from a marine supplier & machine an o-ring grove in it. The bronze fitting Preferably has?a conical reduction shape ( not shown in diagram ). The reducer compresses the epoxy under pressure in to the narrow area & stops it extruding through. Doug was having all sorts of problems epoxying pins straight through a fitting without reduction. In this iteration I epoxy the wires & sheath in to the reducer. You could use pins which would be more in line with G. L. as if the wires are sheared water could run through the individual wire sheaths, but bend the pins. I looked closely at how my subconn penetrators were made, & they mold a thin?rubber sheath over the cable about an inch back from where it enters the penetrator. So as the wiring sheath compresses under pressure this rubber sheath moves with it. The drawing isn't the greatest but I can elaborate if interested. I have a 3000 psi test cylinder to test these but haven't got round to it. ?As this has created a lot of interest, I thought I'd follow up with a couple of drawings of my through hull idea :) (Attached at bottom.) I am using a common reducer fitting to butt or key the epoxy. There are standard reducer fittings with o-rings. I am going to silicone over the outer part of the fitting & along the cable jacket. Then mold over this with the castable rubber to? tidy it up.? The theory is the silicone will compress under pressure on to the jacket (which should itself compress), & seal the jacket better than just epoxy. I looked at a long video of Doug Jackson making through hulls for his rov by epoxying in brass pins. They were failing badly in most cases. I will never trust epoxy again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDZQIDkWs4w Regards Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 21:49:38 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 02:49:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless thruster test 2 In-Reply-To: <1650183387.323358.1454812246443.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1650183387.323358.1454812246443.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <480166082.397739.1454813378175.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,I am trying to compare my motor with others to see if I am getting goodeconomy & they all state bollard thrust. However some parameters likewhere the Watts are measured ie at the battery or the motor, aren't given.You are right that you would get a better idea with it moving. This will giveme a ball park figure for sizing the motor & I'm learning a lot through theprocess. Fine tuning will be on the sub, seeing what it's speed, acceleration& economy is.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2016 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless thruster test 2 Alan,Would you not get a more true idea of the thrust of your motor if it were moving. ?I would think a?centre pivot?arrangement with the thruster going in a circle would be more accurate than just measuring how much it can pull off the line. ?Hank On Saturday, February 6, 2016 7:18 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Great stuff Cliff! Do you know how the Kipawa compares to the standard MK prop without the nozzle? Best, Alec On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Alan.? To reciprocate, attached are our?initial test last week.? The variable pitch prop is not out of the machine shop yet so main goal was to evaluate test rig with Minn Kota MKP-33 prop ( two blade, 4" pitch, 11" diameter) ?that matches with the MK-101 lower unit. We are going to use the MK-101 and MKP-33 prop as the control for our new prop.? We also tested a Kipawa 80/01 (3 bladed prop, 5"pitch, 11" diameter).? The Kipawa prop will fit in my ducted nozzle so measured the bollard thrust with and without the nozzle.? We are still analyzing the data but some initial results.? Bollard thrust of the MKP-33 of 67 lbs is low relative to the 101 lb rated thrust.? A quick look on web shows that manufacture thrust rating are?30-40% higher than a bollard thrust test.? Test rig is fully calibrated.? With the Kipawa prop, the bollard thrust is about 10% higher when using the nozzle than without.? BTW, this is an open water prop and is not designed to be used with this nozzle.?A ducted nozzle prop needs to?have more of a square tip to keep water from moving from the high pressure side of the?blade to the low pressure side.? ?Like you my initial reaction is that we could be having the same boundary or end effect because of the proximity to the pool wall.? We did prove the system worked.?Not sure why both?rpm and current are dropping over time?when the?measured battery voltage is constant?? ?Next week, we are going to repeat the test with the thruster oriented along the long axis of the pool and see how the thrust compare. On your test, a couple of questions:1) How long did run each test point? 2) On the first test sequence, 3800W and 81 lbs bollard thrust for input HP of over 5.? This seems like quite a bit of power to develop this amount of thrust. Do attribute most of this to this boundary effect or recirculation affect?3) On each of these test points, your are stepping through higher and higher power to the thruster.? For any one of these points, how repeatable is thrust?4) Thrust is proportional to density * n^2*Dia^4.? I think to be able to make sense of data from different props with different diameters and pitches, you need an angular velocity or speed measurement.? Can you measure the motor speed with this type of motor.? For our test we use a proximity switch and count pulses to measure speed.5) Are you planning on testing any ducted props? Cliff On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 2:41 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: From: Alan James To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, February 6, 2016 11:18 PM Subject: Brushless thruster test 2 This is mainly for Cliff's benefit, as he is going to be doing somethrust testing.Tested 2 different props out. One being the same as the first test, the yamaha 7&1/4" x 4" pitch?& the second was a Vetus 6 blade 108 mm ( 4") ?for 25kg bow thruster. No stats on the pitch but itlooks about 180mm or 7".My watts measurement is done off the battery whereas other people quote their output at the motor.I am comparing my motors performance to statistics from commercial thruster brands but not surewhere they are measuring there power from.Had some wacky results from the yamaha prop again. It was the more powerful & I think I am getting whatis called a "short circuit" effect through having the motor about 28" out from the pool edge & in about 3ftof water. Short circuit is where an edi is formed & the water moves from the output to the input in a semicircle around the thruster. This is caused by water bouncing off a pool wall, or in my case the inlet flow?bouncing off the wall or pool bottom.I was running off a 40V 5 amp ?Lipo battery & the voltage dropped a bit during the tests.Ist test was 10 kg (22 lb ) at 500 W?2nd 11 kg at 1000 W & 39 V3rd 15 kg at a huge 3,400 W4th 37 kg at 3,800 W & 85 amps.As you can see some inconsistent results there, and some missing figures like amp draw, as I neededan assistant to read the figures.Next is the Vetus prop.1st 10kg ?547 W ?39 V2nd 11 kg ?634 W ?11 amps ?37.81 V3rd ?15 kg ?998 W ?27 amps4th ?20 kg ?1700 W ?39 V5th ?24 kg ?2500 WIt's amazing what a difference a prop makes.In conclusion, I need to ditch this rig & buy a longer plank of wood to do tests in the middle of the deep end.I have a more sophisticated volt / amp meter that stores results & plots on a computer & I need to employ that.I need to buy a similar motor but a sensored version, as there was too much cogging at low speed.Sensoreless motors read the back emf produced by the motor to ascertain the position of the rotors & can stop /start & rotate backwards on low speed where there isn't enough back emf produced.I need to replace my motor controller with a sensored controller, probably Kelly & buy a bigger life po4 battery. ? ?I also want to wire the motor to a WYE configuration which will give me .73 less rpm. So will gear it down a bit.Some good news is I have found people on boating forums adapting these RC brushless motors & an absoluteguru who uses these motors for traction vehicles & has posted pages of information on them.Cheers Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 22:06:33 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 21:06:33 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless thruster test 2 In-Reply-To: <1751997664.420835.1454806219812.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1175829109.221165.1454753886534.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1175829109.221165.1454753886534.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <2018275803.315329.1454791286899.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1751997664.420835.1454806219812.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: For the MKP-33, with no nozzle, the 67 lbs bollard thrust was with the motor being supplied 1530 watts or a little over 2 hp and current was about 42 amps. I think you are right on the reason for the drop off. I must have missed the email on the bollard testing, I will go back through my emails and see if I can find it. Cliff On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 6:50 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Cliff, > thanks for the data, am interested in any more you get. > I wrote an email on testing with a link to a bollard test set up for a > DPV. > If you didn't get it I will re-send. I have missed some emails lately. > The Vetus prop is a square ended prop designed for nozzles. I didn't try > it with a nozzle. They have a range of props. > Vetus, 6 Blade Bow Thruster Replacement Propeller > > > > [image: image] > > > > > > > Vetus, 6 Blade Bow Thruster Replacement Propeller > > Due to your browser's configuration you can not order online. Please order > by phone or contact us. Vetus, 6 Blade Bow Thruster Replacement Propeller > Mfr. > View on www.go2marine.com > > Preview by Yahoo > > > I am not sure whether you can get a left & right handed propeller. > I didn't run the tests long. I had a smooth start option programmed in to > my controller > so it was a bit slow getting to full throttle. As per the instructions in > the email link I sited, > it is best to get it up to full speed fast before you create a strong > flowing current. > This is most probably why your amps went down, as the water was initially > stationary > & then started flowing & lowering the load. Typically a displacement boat > can have 50% propeller slip or more so > you could have been doing a bit of a wheel spin initially & getting the > revs up, then they might have come down > as the current flowed. > I am not sure why I got the large 3,800 W & only 81 lb thrust unless > something is shorting to the aluminium housing > under load. It could be boundary effect??? > I have measured the max rpm out of water but can't measure it in water at > the moment. That will > be my stage two testing. > The thrust results were repeatable on the yamaha prop up to 10 kg (22 lb) > & then they seemed to go a bit haywire, > so this indicates boundary effects. > The 6 blade Vetus prop was more consistant above this, but maximum thrust > was 24 kg at 2,500 W. > How many Watts were you drawing from the battery to get the 67 lb thrust? > I will need to re-think this & order stuff in from overseas & maybe make > another housing before I test again. > Cheers Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Sunday, February 7, 2016 11:29 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless thruster test 2 > > Thanks Alan. To reciprocate, attached are our initial test last week. > The variable pitch prop is not out of the machine shop yet so main goal was > to evaluate test rig with Minn Kota MKP-33 prop ( two blade, 4" pitch, 11" > diameter) that matches with the MK-101 lower unit. We are going to use the > MK-101 and MKP-33 prop as the control for our new prop. We also tested a > Kipawa 80/01 (3 bladed prop, 5"pitch, 11" diameter). The Kipawa prop will > fit in my ducted nozzle so measured the bollard thrust with and without the > nozzle. We are still analyzing the data but some initial results. Bollard > thrust of the MKP-33 of 67 lbs is low relative to the 101 lb rated thrust. > A quick look on web shows that manufacture thrust rating are 30-40% higher > than a bollard thrust test. Test rig is fully calibrated. With the Kipawa > prop, the bollard thrust is about 10% higher when using the nozzle than > without. BTW, this is an open water prop and is not designed to be used > with this nozzle. A ducted nozzle prop needs to have more of a square tip > to keep water from moving from the high pressure side of the blade to the > low pressure side. Like you my initial reaction is that we could be > having the same boundary or end effect because of the proximity to the pool > wall. We did prove the system worked. Not sure why both rpm and current > are dropping over time when the measured battery voltage is constant? > Next week, we are going to repeat the test with the thruster oriented > along the long axis of the pool and see how the thrust compare. > > On your test, a couple of questions: > 1) How long did run each test point? > 2) On the first test sequence, 3800W and 81 lbs bollard thrust for input > HP of over 5. This seems like quite a bit of power to develop this amount > of thrust. Do attribute most of this to this boundary effect or > recirculation affect? > 3) On each of these test points, your are stepping through higher and > higher power to the thruster. For any one of these points, how repeatable > is thrust? > 4) Thrust is proportional to density * n^2*Dia^4. I think to be able to > make sense of data from different props with different diameters and > pitches, you need an angular velocity or speed measurement. Can you > measure the motor speed with this type of motor. For our test we use a > proximity switch and count pulses to measure speed. > 5) Are you planning on testing any ducted props? > > Cliff > > > On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 2:41 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alan James > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Sent:* Saturday, February 6, 2016 11:18 PM > *Subject:* Brushless thruster test 2 > > This is mainly for Cliff's benefit, as he is going to be doing some > thrust testing. > Tested 2 different props out. One being the same as the first test, the > yamaha 7&1/4" x 4" pitch > & the second was a Vetus 6 blade 108 mm ( 4") for 25kg bow thruster. No > stats on the pitch but it > looks about 180mm or 7". > My watts measurement is done off the battery whereas other people quote > their output at the motor. > I am comparing my motors performance to statistics from commercial > thruster brands but not sure > where they are measuring there power from. > Had some wacky results from the yamaha prop again. It was the more > powerful & I think I am getting what > is called a "short circuit" effect through having the motor about 28" out > from the pool edge & in about 3ft > of water. Short circuit is where an edi is formed & the water moves from > the output to the input in a semi > circle around the thruster. This is caused by water bouncing off a pool > wall, or in my case the inlet flow > bouncing off the wall or pool bottom. > I was running off a 40V 5 amp Lipo battery & the voltage dropped a bit > during the tests. > Ist test was 10 kg (22 lb ) at 500 W > 2nd 11 kg at 1000 W & 39 V > 3rd 15 kg at a huge 3,400 W > 4th 37 kg at 3,800 W & 85 amps. > As you can see some inconsistent results there, and some missing figures > like amp draw, as I needed > an assistant to read the figures. > Next is the Vetus prop. > 1st 10kg 547 W 39 V > 2nd 11 kg 634 W 11 amps 37.81 V > 3rd 15 kg 998 W 27 amps > 4th 20 kg 1700 W 39 V > 5th 24 kg 2500 W > It's amazing what a difference a prop makes. > In conclusion, I need to ditch this rig & buy a longer plank of wood to do > tests in the middle of the deep end. > I have a more sophisticated volt / amp meter that stores results & plots > on a computer & I need to employ that. > I need to buy a similar motor but a sensored version, as there was too > much cogging at low speed. > Sensoreless motors read the back emf produced by the motor to ascertain > the position of the rotors & can stop /start > & rotate backwards on low speed where there isn't enough back emf produced. > I need to replace my motor controller with a sensored controller, probably > Kelly & buy a bigger life po4 battery. > I also want to wire the motor to a WYE configuration which will give me > .73 less rpm. So will gear it down a bit. > Some good news is I have found people on boating forums adapting these RC > brushless motors & an absolute > guru who uses these motors for traction vehicles & has posted pages of > information on them. > Cheers Alan > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 22:27:38 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 21:27:38 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless thruster test 2 In-Reply-To: References: <1175829109.221165.1454753886534.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1175829109.221165.1454753886534.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <2018275803.315329.1454791286899.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alec I am still analyzing the data. I need to do some filtering to take out some noise so don't quote me yet but, after looking again at the curves, it looks like the Kipawa 80/01 prop was getting about 66 lbf and the MKP-33 about 60 lbs. As expected with the Kipawa having a 5 inch pitch compared with the MKP-33 4 inch pitch, the rpm of the MKP-33 is much higher and power supplied to the motor higher for the Kipawa. I wish I could get MK to come clean and tell me exactly what their rated thrust means and how they measured it. Still lots to learn. Cliff On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Great stuff Cliff! Do you know how the Kipawa compares to the standard MK > prop without the nozzle? > > > Best, > > Alec > > On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Thanks Alan. To reciprocate, attached are our initial test last week. >> The variable pitch prop is not out of the machine shop yet so main goal was >> to evaluate test rig with Minn Kota MKP-33 prop ( two blade, 4" pitch, 11" >> diameter) that matches with the MK-101 lower unit. We are going to use the >> MK-101 and MKP-33 prop as the control for our new prop. We also tested a >> Kipawa 80/01 (3 bladed prop, 5"pitch, 11" diameter). The Kipawa prop will >> fit in my ducted nozzle so measured the bollard thrust with and without the >> nozzle. We are still analyzing the data but some initial results. Bollard >> thrust of the MKP-33 of 67 lbs is low relative to the 101 lb rated thrust. >> A quick look on web shows that manufacture thrust rating are 30-40% higher >> than a bollard thrust test. Test rig is fully calibrated. With the Kipawa >> prop, the bollard thrust is about 10% higher when using the nozzle than >> without. BTW, this is an open water prop and is not designed to be used >> with this nozzle. A ducted nozzle prop needs to have more of a square tip >> to keep water from moving from the high pressure side of the blade to the >> low pressure side. Like you my initial reaction is that we could be >> having the same boundary or end effect because of the proximity to the pool >> wall. We did prove the system worked. Not sure why both rpm and current >> are dropping over time when the measured battery voltage is constant? >> Next week, we are going to repeat the test with the thruster oriented >> along the long axis of the pool and see how the thrust compare. >> >> On your test, a couple of questions: >> 1) How long did run each test point? >> 2) On the first test sequence, 3800W and 81 lbs bollard thrust for input >> HP of over 5. This seems like quite a bit of power to develop this amount >> of thrust. Do attribute most of this to this boundary effect or >> recirculation affect? >> 3) On each of these test points, your are stepping through higher and >> higher power to the thruster. For any one of these points, how repeatable >> is thrust? >> 4) Thrust is proportional to density * n^2*Dia^4. I think to be able to >> make sense of data from different props with different diameters and >> pitches, you need an angular velocity or speed measurement. Can you >> measure the motor speed with this type of motor. For our test we use a >> proximity switch and count pulses to measure speed. >> 5) Are you planning on testing any ducted props? >> >> Cliff >> >> >> On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 2:41 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Alan James >>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> *Sent:* Saturday, February 6, 2016 11:18 PM >>> *Subject:* Brushless thruster test 2 >>> >>> This is mainly for Cliff's benefit, as he is going to be doing some >>> thrust testing. >>> Tested 2 different props out. One being the same as the first test, the >>> yamaha 7&1/4" x 4" pitch >>> & the second was a Vetus 6 blade 108 mm ( 4") for 25kg bow thruster. No >>> stats on the pitch but it >>> looks about 180mm or 7". >>> My watts measurement is done off the battery whereas other people quote >>> their output at the motor. >>> I am comparing my motors performance to statistics from commercial >>> thruster brands but not sure >>> where they are measuring there power from. >>> Had some wacky results from the yamaha prop again. It was the more >>> powerful & I think I am getting what >>> is called a "short circuit" effect through having the motor about 28" >>> out from the pool edge & in about 3ft >>> of water. Short circuit is where an edi is formed & the water moves from >>> the output to the input in a semi >>> circle around the thruster. This is caused by water bouncing off a pool >>> wall, or in my case the inlet flow >>> bouncing off the wall or pool bottom. >>> I was running off a 40V 5 amp Lipo battery & the voltage dropped a bit >>> during the tests. >>> Ist test was 10 kg (22 lb ) at 500 W >>> 2nd 11 kg at 1000 W & 39 V >>> 3rd 15 kg at a huge 3,400 W >>> 4th 37 kg at 3,800 W & 85 amps. >>> As you can see some inconsistent results there, and some missing figures >>> like amp draw, as I needed >>> an assistant to read the figures. >>> Next is the Vetus prop. >>> 1st 10kg 547 W 39 V >>> 2nd 11 kg 634 W 11 amps 37.81 V >>> 3rd 15 kg 998 W 27 amps >>> 4th 20 kg 1700 W 39 V >>> 5th 24 kg 2500 W >>> It's amazing what a difference a prop makes. >>> In conclusion, I need to ditch this rig & buy a longer plank of wood to >>> do tests in the middle of the deep end. >>> I have a more sophisticated volt / amp meter that stores results & plots >>> on a computer & I need to employ that. >>> I need to buy a similar motor but a sensored version, as there was too >>> much cogging at low speed. >>> Sensoreless motors read the back emf produced by the motor to ascertain >>> the position of the rotors & can stop /start >>> & rotate backwards on low speed where there isn't enough back emf >>> produced. >>> I need to replace my motor controller with a sensored controller, >>> probably Kelly & buy a bigger life po4 battery. >>> I also want to wire the motor to a WYE configuration which will give >>> me .73 less rpm. So will gear it down a bit. >>> Some good news is I have found people on boating forums adapting these >>> RC brushless motors & an absolute >>> guru who uses these motors for traction vehicles & has posted pages of >>> information on them. >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 22:46:16 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 21:46:16 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless thruster test 2 In-Reply-To: <2057626213.426517.1454808690627.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1175829109.221165.1454753886534.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1175829109.221165.1454753886534.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <2018275803.315329.1454791286899.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1751997664.420835.1454806219812.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <2057626213.426517.1454808690627.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Do you know where this video was taken? I have got to get my boat into that water! BTW, for an in depth look at both conventional and ducted props, I found the John Carlton book titled "Marine Propellers and Propulsion" to be excellent. They have a section in the book on the Wageningen series 37 nozzle which I am using on my boat and a propeller that was designed to match this nozzle. The profile of the blades is given along with detailed modeling equations based on experimental work to predict thrust, torque and efficiency based on the advance coefficient. This basically fully defines the prop and nozzle and any speed both ahead and astern. Bollard thrust is given when the advance coefficient is zero ( advance velocity zero). The original work on this was done by Oosterveld MWC at MARIN in the Netherlands in 1973. With a little work, you can find a PDF of the book on the web. Cliff On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 7:31 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Clif, > in this entertaining Gizmag review of the Deep Flight Dragon, the > journalist does a "wheely" with the vertical rear thrusters & is at full > throttle > going nowhere. > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7AIlmrRv4o > > This is 4 minutes in. They hadn't fully written all the code > for the sub & wrote in some "anti Wheely" code that night. > I assume they would either have a slower ramp up programmed in to > the speed controller (common option in a lot of controllers), or they > relate > the rpm to the current draw or similar. > Another thought on my high amp draw & low thrust was that the scales I > were > using only go up to 40 kg. I had tared them & might have actually been at > their limit. > So could have been thrusting a lot higher. > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Sunday, February 7, 2016 1:50 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless thruster test 2 > > Hi Cliff, > thanks for the data, am interested in any more you get. > I wrote an email on testing with a link to a bollard test set up for a > DPV. > If you didn't get it I will re-send. I have missed some emails lately. > The Vetus prop is a square ended prop designed for nozzles. I didn't try > it with a nozzle. They have a range of props. > Vetus, 6 Blade Bow Thruster Replacement Propeller > > > > [image: image] > > > > > > > Vetus, 6 Blade Bow Thruster Replacement Propeller > > Due to your browser's configuration you can not order online. Please order > by phone or contact us. Vetus, 6 Blade Bow Thruster Replacement Propeller > Mfr. > View on www.go2marine.com > > Preview by Yahoo > > > I am not sure whether you can get a left & right handed propeller. > I didn't run the tests long. I had a smooth start option programmed in to > my controller > so it was a bit slow getting to full throttle. As per the instructions in > the email link I sited, > it is best to get it up to full speed fast before you create a strong > flowing current. > This is most probably why your amps went down, as the water was initially > stationary > & then started flowing & lowering the load. Typically a displacement boat > can have 50% propeller slip or more so > you could have been doing a bit of a wheel spin initially & getting the > revs up, then they might have come down > as the current flowed. > I am not sure why I got the large 3,800 W & only 81 lb thrust unless > something is shorting to the aluminium housing > under load. It could be boundary effect??? > I have measured the max rpm out of water but can't measure it in water at > the moment. That will > be my stage two testing. > The thrust results were repeatable on the yamaha prop up to 10 kg (22 lb) > & then they seemed to go a bit haywire, > so this indicates boundary effects. > The 6 blade Vetus prop was more consistant above this, but maximum thrust > was 24 kg at 2,500 W. > How many Watts were you drawing from the battery to get the 67 lb thrust? > I will need to re-think this & order stuff in from overseas & maybe make > another housing before I test again. > Cheers Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Sunday, February 7, 2016 11:29 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless thruster test 2 > > Thanks Alan. To reciprocate, attached are our initial test last week. > The variable pitch prop is not out of the machine shop yet so main goal was > to evaluate test rig with Minn Kota MKP-33 prop ( two blade, 4" pitch, 11" > diameter) that matches with the MK-101 lower unit. We are going to use the > MK-101 and MKP-33 prop as the control for our new prop. We also tested a > Kipawa 80/01 (3 bladed prop, 5"pitch, 11" diameter). The Kipawa prop will > fit in my ducted nozzle so measured the bollard thrust with and without the > nozzle. We are still analyzing the data but some initial results. Bollard > thrust of the MKP-33 of 67 lbs is low relative to the 101 lb rated thrust. > A quick look on web shows that manufacture thrust rating are 30-40% higher > than a bollard thrust test. Test rig is fully calibrated. With the Kipawa > prop, the bollard thrust is about 10% higher when using the nozzle than > without. BTW, this is an open water prop and is not designed to be used > with this nozzle. A ducted nozzle prop needs to have more of a square tip > to keep water from moving from the high pressure side of the blade to the > low pressure side. Like you my initial reaction is that we could be > having the same boundary or end effect because of the proximity to the pool > wall. We did prove the system worked. Not sure why both rpm and current > are dropping over time when the measured battery voltage is constant? > Next week, we are going to repeat the test with the thruster oriented > along the long axis of the pool and see how the thrust compare. > > On your test, a couple of questions: > 1) How long did run each test point? > 2) On the first test sequence, 3800W and 81 lbs bollard thrust for input > HP of over 5. This seems like quite a bit of power to develop this amount > of thrust. Do attribute most of this to this boundary effect or > recirculation affect? > 3) On each of these test points, your are stepping through higher and > higher power to the thruster. For any one of these points, how repeatable > is thrust? > 4) Thrust is proportional to density * n^2*Dia^4. I think to be able to > make sense of data from different props with different diameters and > pitches, you need an angular velocity or speed measurement. Can you > measure the motor speed with this type of motor. For our test we use a > proximity switch and count pulses to measure speed. > 5) Are you planning on testing any ducted props? > > Cliff > > > On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 2:41 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alan James > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Sent:* Saturday, February 6, 2016 11:18 PM > *Subject:* Brushless thruster test 2 > > This is mainly for Cliff's benefit, as he is going to be doing some > thrust testing. > Tested 2 different props out. One being the same as the first test, the > yamaha 7&1/4" x 4" pitch > & the second was a Vetus 6 blade 108 mm ( 4") for 25kg bow thruster. No > stats on the pitch but it > looks about 180mm or 7". > My watts measurement is done off the battery whereas other people quote > their output at the motor. > I am comparing my motors performance to statistics from commercial > thruster brands but not sure > where they are measuring there power from. > Had some wacky results from the yamaha prop again. It was the more > powerful & I think I am getting what > is called a "short circuit" effect through having the motor about 28" out > from the pool edge & in about 3ft > of water. Short circuit is where an edi is formed & the water moves from > the output to the input in a semi > circle around the thruster. This is caused by water bouncing off a pool > wall, or in my case the inlet flow > bouncing off the wall or pool bottom. > I was running off a 40V 5 amp Lipo battery & the voltage dropped a bit > during the tests. > Ist test was 10 kg (22 lb ) at 500 W > 2nd 11 kg at 1000 W & 39 V > 3rd 15 kg at a huge 3,400 W > 4th 37 kg at 3,800 W & 85 amps. > As you can see some inconsistent results there, and some missing figures > like amp draw, as I needed > an assistant to read the figures. > Next is the Vetus prop. > 1st 10kg 547 W 39 V > 2nd 11 kg 634 W 11 amps 37.81 V > 3rd 15 kg 998 W 27 amps > 4th 20 kg 1700 W 39 V > 5th 24 kg 2500 W > It's amazing what a difference a prop makes. > In conclusion, I need to ditch this rig & buy a longer plank of wood to do > tests in the middle of the deep end. > I have a more sophisticated volt / amp meter that stores results & plots > on a computer & I need to employ that. > I need to buy a similar motor but a sensored version, as there was too > much cogging at low speed. > Sensoreless motors read the back emf produced by the motor to ascertain > the position of the rotors & can stop /start > & rotate backwards on low speed where there isn't enough back emf produced. > I need to replace my motor controller with a sensored controller, probably > Kelly & buy a bigger life po4 battery. > I also want to wire the motor to a WYE configuration which will give me > .73 less rpm. So will gear it down a bit. > Some good news is I have found people on boating forums adapting these RC > brushless motors & an absolute > guru who uses these motors for traction vehicles & has posted pages of > information on them. > Cheers Alan > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 6 23:12:49 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 04:12:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless thruster test 2 In-Reply-To: References: <1175829109.221165.1454753886534.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1175829109.221165.1454753886534.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <2018275803.315329.1454791286899.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1751997664.420835.1454806219812.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <2057626213.426517.1454808690627.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <790095571.414046.1454818369170.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,that was lake Tahoe California. It's 1000 miles away so you bettercheck conditions before you drive.Thanks for the tip on the book. The Vetus propeller I linked to were designedat Marin.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2016 4:46 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless thruster test 2 Do you know where this video was taken?? I have got to get my boat into that water! BTW, for an in depth look at both conventional and ducted props, I found the John Carlton book titled "Marine Propellers and Propulsion" to be excellent.? They have a section in the book on the Wageningen series 37 nozzle which I am using on my boat?and a propeller that was designed to match this nozzle.? The profile of the blades is given along with detailed modeling ?equations based on experimental work?to? predict thrust, torque and efficiency based on the advance coefficient.? This basically fully defines the prop and nozzle and any speed both ahead and astern.? Bollard thrust is given when the advance?coefficient is zero ( advance velocity zero).? The original work on this was done by Oosterveld MWC at MARIN in the Netherlands in 1973.? With a little work, you can find a PDF of the book on the web. Cliff On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 7:31 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Clif,in this entertaining Gizmag review of the Deep Flight Dragon, thejournalist does a "wheely" with the vertical rear thrusters & is at full throttlegoing nowhere.?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7AIlmrRv4o This is 4 minutes in. They hadn't fully written all the codefor the sub & wrote in some "anti Wheely" code that night.I assume they would either have a slower ramp up programmed in to?the speed controller (common option in a lot of controllers), or they relatethe rpm to the current draw or similar.Another thought on my high amp draw & low thrust was that the scales I were?using only go up to 40 kg. I had tared them & might have actually been at their limit.So could have been thrusting a lot higher.Alan From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2016 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless thruster test 2 Hi Cliff,thanks for the data, am interested in any more you get.I wrote an email on testing with a link to a bollard test set up for a DPV.?If you didn't get it I will re-send. I have missed some emails lately.The Vetus prop is a square ended prop designed for nozzles. I didn't tryit with a nozzle. They have a range of props.Vetus, 6 Blade Bow Thruster Replacement Propeller | ? | | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | Vetus, 6 Blade Bow Thruster Replacement PropellerDue to your browser's configuration you can not order online. Please order by phone or contact us. Vetus, 6 Blade Bow Thruster Replacement Propeller Mfr. | | | | View on www.go2marine.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | I am not sure whether you can get a left & right handed propeller.I didn't run the tests long. I had a smooth start option programmed in to my controllerso it was a bit slow getting to full throttle. As per the instructions in the email link I sited,it is best to get it up to full speed fast before you create a strong flowing current.This is most probably why your amps went down, as the water was initially stationary& then started flowing & lowering the load. Typically a displacement boat can have 50% propeller slip or more soyou could have been doing a bit of a wheel spin initially & getting the revs up, then they might have come downas the current flowed.I am not sure why I got the large 3,800 W & only 81 lb thrust unless something is shorting to the aluminium housingunder load. It could be boundary effect???I have measured the max rpm out of water but can't measure it in water at the moment. That willbe my stage two testing.The thrust results were repeatable on the yamaha prop up to 10 kg (22 lb) & then they seemed to go a bit haywire,so this indicates boundary effects.The 6 blade Vetus prop was more consistant above this, but maximum thrust was 24 kg at 2,500 W.How many Watts were you drawing from the battery to get the 67 lb thrust?I will need to re-think this & order stuff in from overseas & maybe make another housing before I test again.Cheers Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2016 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless thruster test 2 Thanks Alan.? To reciprocate, attached are our?initial test last week.? The variable pitch prop is not out of the machine shop yet so main goal was to evaluate test rig with Minn Kota MKP-33 prop ( two blade, 4" pitch, 11" diameter) ?that matches with the MK-101 lower unit. We are going to use the MK-101 and MKP-33 prop as the control for our new prop.? We also tested a Kipawa 80/01 (3 bladed prop, 5"pitch, 11" diameter).? The Kipawa prop will fit in my ducted nozzle so measured the bollard thrust with and without the nozzle.? We are still analyzing the data but some initial results.? Bollard thrust of the MKP-33 of 67 lbs is low relative to the 101 lb rated thrust.? A quick look on web shows that manufacture thrust rating are?30-40% higher than a bollard thrust test.? Test rig is fully calibrated.? With the Kipawa prop, the bollard thrust is about 10% higher when using the nozzle than without.? BTW, this is an open water prop and is not designed to be used with this nozzle.?A ducted nozzle prop needs to?have more of a square tip to keep water from moving from the high pressure side of the?blade to the low pressure side.? ?Like you my initial reaction is that we could be having the same boundary or end effect because of the proximity to the pool wall.? We did prove the system worked.?Not sure why both?rpm and current are dropping over time?when the?measured battery voltage is constant?? ?Next week, we are going to repeat the test with the thruster oriented along the long axis of the pool and see how the thrust compare. On your test, a couple of questions:1) How long did run each test point? 2) On the first test sequence, 3800W and 81 lbs bollard thrust for input HP of over 5.? This seems like quite a bit of power to develop this amount of thrust. Do attribute most of this to this boundary effect or recirculation affect?3) On each of these test points, your are stepping through higher and higher power to the thruster.? For any one of these points, how repeatable is thrust?4) Thrust is proportional to density * n^2*Dia^4.? I think to be able to make sense of data from different props with different diameters and pitches, you need an angular velocity or speed measurement.? Can you measure the motor speed with this type of motor.? For our test we use a proximity switch and count pulses to measure speed.5) Are you planning on testing any ducted props? Cliff On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 2:41 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: From: Alan James To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, February 6, 2016 11:18 PM Subject: Brushless thruster test 2 This is mainly for Cliff's benefit, as he is going to be doing somethrust testing.Tested 2 different props out. One being the same as the first test, the yamaha 7&1/4" x 4" pitch?& the second was a Vetus 6 blade 108 mm ( 4") ?for 25kg bow thruster. No stats on the pitch but itlooks about 180mm or 7".My watts measurement is done off the battery whereas other people quote their output at the motor.I am comparing my motors performance to statistics from commercial thruster brands but not surewhere they are measuring there power from.Had some wacky results from the yamaha prop again. It was the more powerful & I think I am getting whatis called a "short circuit" effect through having the motor about 28" out from the pool edge & in about 3ftof water. Short circuit is where an edi is formed & the water moves from the output to the input in a semicircle around the thruster. This is caused by water bouncing off a pool wall, or in my case the inlet flow?bouncing off the wall or pool bottom.I was running off a 40V 5 amp ?Lipo battery & the voltage dropped a bit during the tests.Ist test was 10 kg (22 lb ) at 500 W?2nd 11 kg at 1000 W & 39 V3rd 15 kg at a huge 3,400 W4th 37 kg at 3,800 W & 85 amps.As you can see some inconsistent results there, and some missing figures like amp draw, as I neededan assistant to read the figures.Next is the Vetus prop.1st 10kg ?547 W ?39 V2nd 11 kg ?634 W ?11 amps ?37.81 V3rd ?15 kg ?998 W ?27 amps4th ?20 kg ?1700 W ?39 V5th ?24 kg ?2500 WIt's amazing what a difference a prop makes.In conclusion, I need to ditch this rig & buy a longer plank of wood to do tests in the middle of the deep end.I have a more sophisticated volt / amp meter that stores results & plots on a computer & I need to employ that.I need to buy a similar motor but a sensored version, as there was too much cogging at low speed.Sensoreless motors read the back emf produced by the motor to ascertain the position of the rotors & can stop /start & rotate backwards on low speed where there isn't enough back emf produced.I need to replace my motor controller with a sensored controller, probably Kelly & buy a bigger life po4 battery. ? ?I also want to wire the motor to a WYE configuration which will give me .73 less rpm. So will gear it down a bit.Some good news is I have found people on boating forums adapting these RC brushless motors & an absoluteguru who uses these motors for traction vehicles & has posted pages of information on them.Cheers Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 7 05:20:45 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 10:20:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull In-Reply-To: <005901d16132$63fd78b0$2bf86a10$@telus.net> References: <005901d16132$63fd78b0$2bf86a10$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1860617940.384831.1454840445454.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Tim,Sure can do. ?I am doing pretty much what Alan shows with a couple exceptions, I use threaded rod and I?encapsulate the wet end of the rod where the wire bolts on in high compression casting resin. ?At least that is what I did on my new sub "Elementary 3000"Hank On Saturday, February 6, 2016 4:03 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv7248190592 #yiv7248190592 -- _filtered #yiv7248190592 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7248190592 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7248190592 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv7248190592 #yiv7248190592 p.yiv7248190592MsoNormal, #yiv7248190592 li.yiv7248190592MsoNormal, #yiv7248190592 div.yiv7248190592MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv7248190592 a:link, #yiv7248190592 span.yiv7248190592MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7248190592 a:visited, #yiv7248190592 span.yiv7248190592MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7248190592 span.yiv7248190592EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv7248190592 .yiv7248190592MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv7248190592 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv7248190592 div.yiv7248190592WordSection1 {}#yiv7248190592 Hey Hank,While you build the penetrators for Jon could you take a few pics and post them along with written details on the project site? Alan, you as well, please.Tim ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, February 6, 2016 2:35 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull ?Hi Jon,You have a couple of options, you can machine a piece to fit with an o-ring groove in it and make a penetrator from that or you could thread your opening ?and make a penetrator to fit that. ?How many wires do you need to go through? ? ?I would not use a smooth rod in a home made penetrator. ?I always use a small threaded rod and have had good success. ?I tested the two I made for Gamma to well over 600 psi and they were perfect. ?If you like I am happy to make you a couple to fit your bore. ?Just get me the exact measurement of the bore. ?You have been very helpful to me and others so it would be a pleasure to help you out.Hank ?On Saturday, February 6, 2016 2:49 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank, See attached.? It's just a smooth bored thru-hull sealed on the outside face by an o-ring. Jon On 2/6/2016 2:24 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: | Jon, What do you have to work with in terms of hole in hull. What amp are you trying to run through. Hank | ? ? ? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 7 11:41:48 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 11:41:48 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull In-Reply-To: <1454786688.97741.YahooMailMobile@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1454786688.97741.YahooMailMobile@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56B773CC.6010301@psubs.org> Hank, I need penetrators for 36vdc power to motors (50amp), 12vdc power to lights (20amp), and other small electronic sensors. Any thoughts about delron or nylon as a body for machining. Attached is a design for threaded rod through delron that I came up. The nuts on the threaded rod probably not necessary if locktite or epoxy is used on the threads before driving it into the thru-hull body. Jon On 2/6/2016 2:24 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Jon, > What do you have to work with in terms of hole in hull. What amp are > you trying to run through. > Hank > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: thru-hull-3.png Type: image/png Size: 5552 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 7 12:22:36 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 17:22:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull In-Reply-To: <56B773CC.6010301@psubs.org> References: <56B773CC.6010301@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1606677549.438159.1454865756534.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Jon,That should work perfectly well, I would drill and tap the delron so the rods thread into it, if not threaded all the way at least partially. ?You could solder the wires to the end of the rods or crimp. ?Then encapsulate the connections, I assume that is what your thinking with that void at the top. ?The beauty of your material choice is you can get more rods into one penetrator. ?Hank On Sunday, February 7, 2016 9:41 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I need penetrators for 36vdc power to motors (50amp), 12vdc power to lights (20amp), and other small electronic sensors.?? Any thoughts about delron or nylon as a body for machining.? Attached is a design for threaded rod through delron that I came up.? The nuts on the threaded rod probably not necessary if locktite or epoxy is used on the threads before driving it into the thru-hull body. Jon On 2/6/2016 2:24 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: | Jon, What do you have to work with in terms of hole in hull. What amp are you trying to run through. Hank | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 7 12:43:33 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2016 10:43:33 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull In-Reply-To: <56B773CC.6010301@psubs.org> References: <1454786688.97741.YahooMailMobile@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <56B773CC.6010301@psubs.org> Message-ID: Delrin (acetal) is a more dimensionally stable plastic than nylon, and will not absorb moisture to the extent that nylon does. Sean On February 7, 2016 9:41:48 AM MST, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Hank, I need penetrators for 36vdc power to motors (50amp), 12vdc power > >to lights (20amp), and other small electronic sensors. Any thoughts >about delron or nylon as a body for machining. Attached is a design >for >threaded rod through delron that I came up. The nuts on the threaded >rod probably not necessary if locktite or epoxy is used on the threads >before driving it into the thru-hull body. > >Jon > > > >On 2/6/2016 2:24 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Jon, >> What do you have to work with in terms of hole in hull. What amp are >> you trying to run through. >> Hank >> >> > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 7 13:37:44 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 10:37:44 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull Message-ID: <20160207103744.864EDFCC@m0087792.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 7 13:50:19 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 18:50:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull In-Reply-To: <20160207103744.864EDFCC@m0087792.ppops.net> References: <20160207103744.864EDFCC@m0087792.ppops.net> Message-ID: <478350011.452660.1454871019998.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,I use a 1\4 in rod for 50a at 12v probably over kill especially since my runs are quite short. ?I don't want to worry about heat in the penetrator. ?The answer really is relative to wire length.Hank Brian, was it you asking?about a pen for coax- I used to use a 8mm cam corder in my log salvage ROV with a 350 foot coax in the ambilical. ? I simply put an adaptor on the coax to bring it to two wires, like what you had on old tv's ?then through the hull with two epoxy filled rods then back to the adaptor and into coax. ?Never ever failed us and we had a perfect! image all the time. On Sunday, February 7, 2016 11:38 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Jon,?????????????????????? What diameter rod do you need for 50A ??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 17:22:36 +0000 (UTC) Jon,That should work perfectly well, I would drill and tap the delron so the rods thread into it, if not threaded all the way at least partially. ?You could solder the wires to the end of the rods or crimp. ?Then encapsulate the connections, I assume that is what your thinking with that void at the top. ?The beauty of your material choice is you can get more rods into one penetrator. ?Hank On Sunday, February 7, 2016 9:41 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I need penetrators for 36vdc power to motors (50amp), 12vdc power to lights (20amp), and other small electronic sensors.?? Any thoughts about delron or nylon as a body for machining.? Attached is a design for threaded rod through delron that I came up.? The nuts on the threaded rod probably not necessary if locktite or epoxy is used on the threads before driving it into the thru-hull body. Jon On 2/6/2016 2:24 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: | Jon, What do you have to work with in terms of hole in hull. What amp are you trying to run through. Hank | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 7 14:42:07 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 11:42:07 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull Message-ID: <20160207114207.3226FD96@m0087797.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 7 15:15:31 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 20:15:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull In-Reply-To: <20160207114207.3226FD96@m0087797.ppops.net> References: <20160207114207.3226FD96@m0087797.ppops.net> Message-ID: <201607013.487654.1454876131872.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,You will be amazed at how close you can get it with patience. ?Are you putting a strait edge across to make sure your not getting it flat with tilt?Hank On Sunday, February 7, 2016 12:42 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cool, thanks Hank,? I just want to have a little antenna outside for surface communication during launch and surfacing.??? BTW,? sill working away on the hatch,? have everything flat except for a 4" section that is at around .018 "????, I did use the coarse grinder in the beginning, kind of getting the hang of what is required to do that job.? Slow going though.?Brian? ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 18:50:19 +0000 (UTC) Brian,I use a 1\4 in rod for 50a at 12v probably over kill especially since my runs are quite short. ?I don't want to worry about heat in the penetrator. ?The answer really is relative to wire length.Hank Brian, was it you asking?about a pen for coax- I used to use a 8mm cam corder in my log salvage ROV with a 350 foot coax in the ambilical. ? I simply put an adaptor on the coax to bring it to two wires, like what you had on old tv's ?then through the hull with two epoxy filled rods then back to the adaptor and into coax. ?Never ever failed us and we had a perfect! image all the time. On Sunday, February 7, 2016 11:38 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Jon,?????????????????????? What diameter rod do you need for 50A ??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 17:22:36 +0000 (UTC) Jon,That should work perfectly well, I would drill and tap the delron so the rods thread into it, if not threaded all the way at least partially. ?You could solder the wires to the end of the rods or crimp. ?Then encapsulate the connections, I assume that is what your thinking with that void at the top. ?The beauty of your material choice is you can get more rods into one penetrator. ?Hank On Sunday, February 7, 2016 9:41 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I need penetrators for 36vdc power to motors (50amp), 12vdc power to lights (20amp), and other small electronic sensors.?? Any thoughts about delron or nylon as a body for machining.? Attached is a design for threaded rod through delron that I came up.? The nuts on the threaded rod probably not necessary if locktite or epoxy is used on the threads before driving it into the thru-hull body. Jon On 2/6/2016 2:24 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: | Jon, What do you have to work with in terms of hole in hull. What amp are you trying to run through. Hank | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 7 15:58:35 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 20:58:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: mould In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1368304439.504709.1454878715885.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> This is one half of the mould for the MBT slash trawl float house on Elementary 3000 ?After this part is glassed up, then the bottom portion will be formed and the two halves will be married together. ?There will be a second set of moulds to encase the HP and O2 tanks. ?This whole process will take me all next week to complete. ?Hank On Sunday, February 7, 2016 1:53 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0280.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 20618 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 7 16:19:48 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 21:19:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: mould In-Reply-To: <1368304439.504709.1454878715885.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1368304439.504709.1454878715885.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1733015095.656201.1454879988137.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,I'm not sure what you are doing here.There is a circle drawn in the middle, is this cut out & will the MBT be fitted?around the hatch. As it is the top I am surprized it is flat as the air won't rise?to a central point to be exhausted.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, February 8, 2016 9:58 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: mould This is one half of the mould for the MBT slash trawl float house on Elementary 3000 ?After this part is glassed up, then the bottom portion will be formed and the two halves will be married together. ?There will be a second set of moulds to encase the HP and O2 tanks. ?This whole process will take me all next week to complete. ?Hank On Sunday, February 7, 2016 1:53 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0280.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 20618 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 7 16:26:33 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 21:26:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: mould In-Reply-To: <1733015095.656201.1454879988137.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1733015095.656201.1454879988137.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <969269281.495513.1454880393446.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Yes the?centre will be cut out and 3 inches of the sphere will protrude. ?It is not clear in the picture, but the entire top is sloped 1.5 inches over 19 inches, to allow for venting.Hank On Sunday, February 7, 2016 2:19 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I'm not sure what you are doing here.There is a circle drawn in the middle, is this cut out & will the MBT be fitted?around the hatch. As it is the top I am surprized it is flat as the air won't rise?to a central point to be exhausted.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, February 8, 2016 9:58 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: mould This is one half of the mould for the MBT slash trawl float house on Elementary 3000 ?After this part is glassed up, then the bottom portion will be formed and the two halves will be married together. ?There will be a second set of moulds to encase the HP and O2 tanks. ?This whole process will take me all next week to complete. ?Hank On Sunday, February 7, 2016 1:53 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0280.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 20618 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 7 16:27:37 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 10:27:37 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull In-Reply-To: <20160207103744.864EDFCC@m0087792.ppops.net> References: <20160207103744.864EDFCC@m0087792.ppops.net> Message-ID: <56b7b6c6.5740620a.f1458.4bca@mx.google.com> I seem to remember that Rule of thumb is 2000 amps / square inch for copper so 50 amps would be 3/16? diameter. ?? diameter would be OK for 100 amps. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 8 February 2016 7:38 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull Hank, Jon, What diameter rod do you need for 50A ? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 17:22:36 +0000 (UTC) Jon, That should work perfectly well, I would drill and tap the delron so the rods thread into it, if not threaded all the way at least partially. You could solder the wires to the end of the rods or crimp. Then encapsulate the connections, I assume that is what your thinking with that void at the top. The beauty of your material choice is you can get more rods into one penetrator. Hank On Sunday, February 7, 2016 9:41 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I need penetrators for 36vdc power to motors (50amp), 12vdc power to lights (20amp), and other small electronic sensors. Any thoughts about delron or nylon as a body for machining. Attached is a design for threaded rod through delron that I came up. The nuts on the threaded rod probably not necessary if locktite or epoxy is used on the threads before driving it into the thru-hull body. Jon On 2/6/2016 2:24 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, What do you have to work with in terms of hole in hull. What amp are you trying to run through. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 7 16:46:23 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 21:46:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: mould In-Reply-To: <969269281.495513.1454880393446.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1733015095.656201.1454879988137.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <969269281.495513.1454880393446.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <883115914.604462.1454881583459.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Hank,have fun. You might need to build a scaffold over that to get tothe center. The thought came to mind that you could embed?bolts on the back side of it, around the hatch area, & thenbolt on a self draining conning tower for when it is needed.Alan? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, February 8, 2016 10:26 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: mould Alan,Yes the?centre will be cut out and 3 inches of the sphere will protrude. ?It is not clear in the picture, but the entire top is sloped 1.5 inches over 19 inches, to allow for venting.Hank On Sunday, February 7, 2016 2:19 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I'm not sure what you are doing here.There is a circle drawn in the middle, is this cut out & will the MBT be fitted?around the hatch. As it is the top I am surprized it is flat as the air won't rise?to a central point to be exhausted.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, February 8, 2016 9:58 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: mould This is one half of the mould for the MBT slash trawl float house on Elementary 3000 ?After this part is glassed up, then the bottom portion will be formed and the two halves will be married together. ?There will be a second set of moulds to encase the HP and O2 tanks. ?This whole process will take me all next week to complete. ?Hank On Sunday, February 7, 2016 1:53 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 7 16:59:39 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 21:59:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: mould In-Reply-To: <883115914.604462.1454881583459.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <883115914.604462.1454881583459.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2127717846.499717.1454882380017.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,?The centre hole is quite large so it will be easy to reach, the actual fibreglass ?portion is only 19 inches from the edge to the centre opening. ?Good idea, I am sure I will need a sail of some sort, I was thinking a 1\4 inch thick acrylic oval thing.I am planning electric valves for venting, I had 100% success with them on my log salvage ROV and we did a kazillion cycles and the only trouble we had was they would freeze at the surface before the sink cycle. ?Easy solution, it was to damn cold to be on the water anyways. :-)Hank On Sunday, February 7, 2016 2:49 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Hank,have fun. You might need to build a scaffold over that to get tothe center. The thought came to mind that you could embed?bolts on the back side of it, around the hatch area, & thenbolt on a self draining conning tower for when it is needed.Alan? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, February 8, 2016 10:26 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: mould Alan,Yes the?centre will be cut out and 3 inches of the sphere will protrude. ?It is not clear in the picture, but the entire top is sloped 1.5 inches over 19 inches, to allow for venting.Hank On Sunday, February 7, 2016 2:19 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I'm not sure what you are doing here.There is a circle drawn in the middle, is this cut out & will the MBT be fitted?around the hatch. As it is the top I am surprized it is flat as the air won't rise?to a central point to be exhausted.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, February 8, 2016 9:58 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: mould This is one half of the mould for the MBT slash trawl float house on Elementary 3000 ?After this part is glassed up, then the bottom portion will be formed and the two halves will be married together. ?There will be a second set of moulds to encase the HP and O2 tanks. ?This whole process will take me all next week to complete. ?Hank On Sunday, February 7, 2016 1:53 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 7 21:07:26 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 02:07:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Through hull penetrator In-Reply-To: <822283246.380903.1454812467959.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <822283246.380903.1454812467959.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <613601262.560168.1454897246660.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Jon,There is a very easy and inexpensive way to make your penetrators. ?You rotate your sub so the hole in the sub is vertical and level. ?Then use casting resin, just make a rig that holds the threaded rods in place in the bore. ?The bottom of the rig has to seal as good as possible. ?Then just pour in high compressive casting resin. ?I use a product that has a 17,000 psi compressive strength. ?You can cast in a reservoir as well to encapsulate the wire connections. ?Or you can do it all in one pour.Hank On Saturday, February 6, 2016 7:37 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,for a start you could look at something like this boat through hull with 0-ring.http://www.hotboat.com/frm/showthread.php?t=4421 Or just google through hull, o-ring or face seal. Image search is good.However it may be better to cut a thread if the diameter hole matches a standard tap.You can google hole diameters for taps.If you went for the through hull perpetrator you may find that by the time you thread a fitting in to that,that the hole isn't big enough to fit your wires through, so backward engineer.However Hank seems the best option:)Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2016 10:44 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Through hull penetrator Thanks Alan.? I think Doug would have had much better luck had he used threaded rod instead of wire.? His method is essentially what I am looking at doing however I would use a tapered end as you suggested as well as threaded rod for the conductors to give the epoxy something to grip onto.? Emile presented an interesting design some time ago in which he press fit conductors through nylon or some other solid plastic material.? My bigger issue from a DIY perspective is that I will require some machining no matter what method I choose.? The K-600 uses a smooth bore through-hull that must be sealed on the outside face by an o-ring.? See attached photo for type of penetrator I need. On 2/6/2016 3:07 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, I sent this email out last year as an idea for using castable rubber in a electrical penetrator. Hank is already doing something similar minus the castable rubber. The idea is to buy a bronze reducer fitting of appropriate size from a marine supplier & machine an o-ring grove in it. The bronze fitting Preferably has?a conical reduction shape ( not shown in diagram ). The reducer compresses the epoxy under pressure in to the narrow area & stops it extruding through. Doug was having all sorts of problems epoxying pins straight through a fitting without reduction. In this iteration I epoxy the wires & sheath in to the reducer. You could use pins which would be more in line with G. L. as if the wires are sheared water could run through the individual wire sheaths, but bend the pins. I looked closely at how my subconn penetrators were made, & they mold a thin?rubber sheath over the cable about an inch back from where it enters the penetrator. So as the wiring sheath compresses under pressure this rubber sheath moves with it. The drawing isn't the greatest but I can elaborate if interested. I have a 3000 psi test cylinder to test these but haven't got round to it. ?As this has created a lot of interest, I thought I'd follow up with a couple of drawings of my through hull idea :) (Attached at bottom.) I am using a common reducer fitting to butt or key the epoxy. There are standard reducer fittings with o-rings. I am going to silicone over the outer part of the fitting & along the cable jacket. Then mold over this with the castable rubber to? tidy it up.? The theory is the silicone will compress under pressure on to the jacket (which should itself compress), & seal the jacket better than just epoxy. I looked at a long video of Doug Jackson making through hulls for his rov by epoxying in brass pins. They were failing badly in most cases. I will never trust epoxy again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDZQIDkWs4w Regards Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 7 22:27:55 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 03:27:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators References: <291651116.559444.1454902075531.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <291651116.559444.1454902075531.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Jon,I just realized that your penetrator holes are in the aft head, so my last idea is bad! ?Derlin is the way to go. ?Do you have a caliber to get some accurate measurements?? Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 05:42:01 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 10:42:01 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull In-Reply-To: <56b7b6c6.5740620a.f1458.4bca@mx.google.com> References: <20160207103744.864EDFCC@m0087792.ppops.net> <56b7b6c6.5740620a.f1458.4bca@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I would solder on any connections before assembly. Or make sure you have some method of attaching the wires to the threaded rods. Bolts, whatever. Its impossible to solder to the rods when they are potted\delrin's in place without damaging the delrin or potting compound. you just cant get it hot enough. I didn't, and its caused me 2x motor rebuilds due to connections coming lose. regards James On 7 February 2016 at 21:27, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I seem to remember that Rule of thumb is 2000 amps / square inch for > copper so 50 amps would be 3/16? diameter. > > ?? diameter would be OK for 100 amps. Hugh > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Monday, 8 February 2016 7:38 a.m. > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull > > > > Hank, Jon, > > What diameter rod do you need for 50A ? > > > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull > Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 17:22:36 +0000 (UTC) > > Jon, > > That should work perfectly well, I would drill and tap the delron so the > rods thread into it, if not threaded all the way at least partially. You > could solder the wires to the end of the rods or crimp. Then encapsulate > the connections, I assume that is what your thinking with that void at the > top. The beauty of your material choice is you can get more rods into one > penetrator. > > Hank > > > > On Sunday, February 7, 2016 9:41 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > > Hank, I need penetrators for 36vdc power to motors (50amp), 12vdc power to > lights (20amp), and other small electronic sensors. Any thoughts about > delron or nylon as a body for machining. Attached is a design for threaded > rod through delron that I came up. The nuts on the threaded rod probably > not necessary if locktite or epoxy is used on the threads before driving it > into the thru-hull body. > > Jon > > > On 2/6/2016 2:24 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Jon, > What do you have to work with in terms of hole in hull. What amp are you > trying to run through. > Hank > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 08:27:59 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 13:27:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software In-Reply-To: <56B5FD0D.30604@psubs.org> References: <56B5FD0D.30604@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1500147501.697210.1454938079768.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Sean,Thank you for your efforts with your programs, they have been a huge help to me. ? If I had your knowledge, I would be looking out my ?port at the Titanic.Hank On Saturday, February 6, 2016 7:03 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: The latest version of the STS Sub Design Software written by Sean Stevenson is up on the web site. WWW.PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> Design Tools -> Calculators & Data Sheets _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 09:30:09 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2016 07:30:09 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software In-Reply-To: <1500147501.697210.1454938079768.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <56B5FD0D.30604@psubs.org> <1500147501.697210.1454938079768.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <19e1ceb1-d2bc-40b3-bdcc-1e8bae12d9b7@email.android.com> Funny, I could say the same thing about your budget. ;-) Sean On February 8, 2016 6:27:59 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi Sean,Thank you for your efforts with your programs, they have been a >huge help to me. ? If I had your knowledge, I would be looking out my >?port at the Titanic.Hank > >On Saturday, February 6, 2016 7:03 AM, Jon Wallace via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > >The latest version of the STS Sub Design Software written by Sean >Stevenson is up on the web site. > >WWW.PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> Design Tools -> Calculators & > >Data Sheets > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 10:15:44 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 07:15:44 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull Message-ID: <20160208071544.8467A408@m0087795.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 10:38:39 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 15:38:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software In-Reply-To: <19e1ceb1-d2bc-40b3-bdcc-1e8bae12d9b7@email.android.com> References: <19e1ceb1-d2bc-40b3-bdcc-1e8bae12d9b7@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1777599867.708281.1454945919830.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> If I have a good year this year, I hope to build a Titanic capable sub exactly the same as what I am building now but much?heavier of coarse. ? I will have EE weld it together and I will have the machining done for me also.Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 7:30 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Funny, I could say the same thing about your budget.? ;-)Sean On February 8, 2016 6:27:59 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Sean,Thank you for your efforts with your programs, they have been a huge help to me. ? If I had your knowledge, I would be looking out my ?port at the Titanic.Hank On Saturday, February 6, 2016 7:03 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles w! rote: The latest version of the STS Sub Design Software written by Sean Stevenson is up on the web site. WWW.PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> Design Tools -> Calculators & Data Sheets _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 12:18:26 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2016 10:18:26 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software In-Reply-To: <1777599867.708281.1454945919830.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <19e1ceb1-d2bc-40b3-bdcc-1e8bae12d9b7@email.android.com> <1777599867.708281.1454945919830.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <12d10528-6fda-48ec-9e30-77d8cf4b744a@email.android.com> Titanic is sitting at 8000 fsw. That's a tight payload budget to design within without a foam block or more exotic hull material. Sean On February 8, 2016 8:38:39 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >If I have a good year this year, I hope to build a Titanic capable sub >exactly the same as what I am building now but much?heavier of coarse. >? I will have EE weld it together and I will have the machining done >for me also.Hank > >On Monday, February 8, 2016 7:30 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Funny, I could say the same thing about your budget.? ;-)Sean > > >On February 8, 2016 6:27:59 AM MST, hank pronk via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi Sean,Thank you for your efforts with your programs, they have been a >huge help to me. ? If I had your knowledge, I would be looking out my >?port at the Titanic.Hank > >On Saturday, February 6, 2016 7:03 AM, Jon Wallace via >Personal_Submersibles w! rote: > > > >The latest version of the STS Sub Design Software written by Sean >Stevenson is up on the web site. > >WWW.PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> Design Tools -> Calculators & > >Data Sheets > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 12:48:55 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 12:48:55 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull In-Reply-To: <20160208071544.8467A408@m0087795.ppops.net> References: <20160208071544.8467A408@m0087795.ppops.net> Message-ID: <56B8D507.4030509@psubs.org> That's the intent but I doubt there's a stock size that will fit, the delron shaft will have to be turned to the right diameter and cut to the proper length. Then I need to decide whether to use an o-ring that seats against the outside face of the thru-hull or have two circumferential o-ring grooves turned onto the shaft to act as the seal. On 2/8/2016 10:15 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Jon, Does the Delron fit into the machined bore of the thru hull? > Brian > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 12:50:29 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 12:50:29 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull In-Reply-To: <20160208071544.8467A408@m0087795.ppops.net> References: <20160208071544.8467A408@m0087795.ppops.net> Message-ID: <56B8D565.4010703@psubs.org> Anyone know how the delron is going to hold up to being banged on assuming I swing the sub around and something hits it? Maybe a stainless body with a delron insert would be a better design from that perspective? Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 13:24:39 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 18:24:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software In-Reply-To: <12d10528-6fda-48ec-9e30-77d8cf4b744a@email.android.com> References: <12d10528-6fda-48ec-9e30-77d8cf4b744a@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1010519371.792398.1454955879908.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Sean,It will have to be syntactic foam holding up a 516-70 sphere, the cheap part is the sphere. ?That is the only way I can afford to do it. ?My current sub build is at 12K and I am almost done. ?Not bad for the depth potential. ? I will take it to Burnaby?for the ?2,000 psi test once I am in a cash flow position. ?Low oil prices are??killing me!Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 10:18 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Titanic is sitting at 8000 fsw. That's a tight payload budget to design within without a foam block or more exotic hull material.Sean On February 8, 2016 8:38:39 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: If I have a good year this year, I hope to build a Titanic capable sub exactly the same as what I am building now but much?heavier of coarse. ? I will have EE weld it together and I will have the machining done for me also.Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 7:30 AM, Sean ! T.Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Funny, I could say the same thing about your budget.? ;-)Sean On February 8, 2016 6:27:59 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Sean,Thank you for your efforts with your programs, they have been a huge help to me. ? If I had your knowledge, I would be looking out my ?port at the Titanic.Hank On Saturday, February 6, 2016 7:03 ! AM, JonWallace via Personal_Submersibles w! rote: The latest version of the STS Sub Design Software written by Sean Stevenson is up on the web site. WWW.PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> Design Tools -> Calculators & Data Sheets _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 13:36:03 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2016 11:36:03 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software Message-ID: <20160208113603.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.07505dbd61.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 13:45:52 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 10:45:52 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull Message-ID: <20160208104552.895C13C0@m0087793.ppops.net> Jon, I think you could put the o rings either way ( or both for that matter) don't think it would matter. Generally the o rings in the bore are for a shaft that turns. I guess I've had a mental block about using the delron that way , there is no issue of it compressing? Think if you protected it from getting banged you'd be ok. or if it was recessed. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 12:50:29 -0500 Anyone know how the delron is going to hold up to being banged on assuming I swing the sub around and something hits it? Maybe a stainless body with a delron insert would be a better design from that perspective? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 13:43:50 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 18:43:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software In-Reply-To: <20160208113603.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.07505dbd61.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20160208113603.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.07505dbd61.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <565322613.824201.1454957030711.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Scott,I bet it is well protected, I am sure a sub with no manipulators could get approval. ?Who decides anyways? the people that took what they want already??Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 11:36 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I actually think the?RMS Titanic is at 12,500 fsw and I believe has pretty strict rules and permits required to dive it.?-Scott Waters?? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" Date: Mon, February 08, 2016 11:18 am To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Titanic is sitting at 8000 fsw. That's a tight payload budget to design within without a foam block or more exotic hull material.Sean On February 8, 2016 8:38:39 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: If I have a good year this year, I hope to build a Titanic capable sub exactly the same as what I am building now but much?heavier of coarse. ? I will have EE weld it together and I will have the machining done for me also.Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 7:30 AM, Sean ! T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Funny, I could say the same thing about your budget.? ;-)Sean On February 8, 2016 6:27:59 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Sean,Thank you for your efforts with your programs, they have been a huge help to me. ? If I had your knowledge, I would be looking out my ?port at the Titanic.Hank On Saturday, February 6, 2016 7:03 ! AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles w! rote: The latest version of the STS Sub Design Software written by Sean Stevenson is up on the web site. WWW.PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> Design Tools -> Calculators & Data Sheets _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 13:55:55 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2016 11:55:55 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software Message-ID: <20160208115555.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.5f5094e76d.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 14:06:43 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2016 12:06:43 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software In-Reply-To: <1010519371.792398.1454955879908.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <12d10528-6fda-48ec-9e30-77d8cf4b744a@email.android.com> <1010519371.792398.1454955879908.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm astonished that you could build for so little. I guess you DIY'ed pretty much everything? Sean On February 8, 2016 11:24:39 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Sean,It will have to be syntactic foam holding up a 516-70 sphere, the >cheap part is the sphere. ?That is the only way I can afford to do it. >?My current sub build is at 12K and I am almost done. ?Not bad for the >depth potential. ? I will take it to Burnaby?for the ?2,000 psi test >once I am in a cash flow position. ?Low oil prices are??killing me!Hank > > >On Monday, February 8, 2016 10:18 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Titanic is sitting at 8000 fsw. That's a tight payload budget to design >within without a foam block or more exotic hull material.Sean > > >On February 8, 2016 8:38:39 AM MST, hank pronk via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: >If I have a good year this year, I hope to build a Titanic capable sub >exactly the same as what I am building now but much?heavier of coarse. >? I will have EE weld it together and I will have the machining done >for me also.Hank > >On Monday, February 8, 2016 7:30 AM, Sean ! T.Stevenson via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Funny, I could say the same thing about your budget.? ;-)Sean > > >On February 8, 2016 6:27:59 AM MST, hank pronk via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi Sean,Thank you for your efforts with your programs, they have been a >huge help to me. ? If I had your knowledge, I would be looking out my >?port at the Titanic.Hank > >On Saturday, February 6, 2016 7:03 ! AM, JonWallace via >Personal_Submersibles w! rote: > > > >The latest version of the STS Sub Design Software written by Sean >Stevenson is up on the web site. > >WWW.PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> Design Tools -> Calculators & > >Data Sheets > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 14:04:10 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 19:04:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pisces References: <56819629.865824.1454958250996.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56819629.865824.1454958250996.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Scott,Do you have an update for us on your shop slash Pisces project,?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 14:11:46 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 19:11:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <434624147.855320.1454958707455.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Sean,I did?absolutely everything so far including machining the conical port. ?I also had some parts on the shelf already from previous builds.Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 12:07 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I'm astonished that you could build for so little. I guess you DIY'ed pretty much everything?Sean On February 8, 2016 11:24:39 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean,It will have to be syntactic foam holding up a 516-70 sphere, the cheap part is the sphere. ?That is the only way I can afford to do it. ?My current sub build is at 12K and I am almost done. ?Not bad for the depth potential. ? I will take it to Burnaby?for the ?2,000 psi test once I am in a cash flow position. ?Low oil prices are??killing me!Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 10:18 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Titanic is sitting at 8000 fsw. That's a tight payload budget to design within without a foam block or more exotic hull material.Sean On February 8, 2016 8:38:39 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: If I have a good year this year, I hope to build a Titanic capable sub exactly the same as what I am building now but much?heavier of coarse. ? I will have EE weld it together and I will have the machining done for me also.Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 7:30 AM, Sean ! T.Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Funny, I could say the same thing about your budget.? ;-)Sean On February 8, 2016 6:27:59 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Sean,Thank you for your efforts with your programs, they have been a huge help to me. ? If I had your knowledge, I would be looking out my ?port at the Titanic.Hank On Saturday, February 6, 2016 7:03 ! AM, JonWallace via Personal_Submersibles w! rote: The latest version of the STS Sub Design Software written by Sean Stevenson is up on the web site. WWW.PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> Design Tools -> Calculators & Data Sheets _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 14:27:30 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2016 12:27:30 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software In-Reply-To: <434624147.855320.1454958707455.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <434624147.855320.1454958707455.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006d87dd-308b-4e1b-8c5d-166e43118961@email.android.com> I'm limited in what I can accomplish, given that I'm not well-invested in personal tools and machining equipment, and there are limits as to what my employer will permit me to do on personal projects. I can design (CAD/CAM/FEA/CFD), do basic fabrication and assembly, non-pressure vessel welding, PAC programming, post-weld heat treatment, pressure testing to 60,000 psi and instrument calibration, but I need to farm out most machining and welding tasks. As such, cost increases significantly. Sean On February 8, 2016 12:11:46 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Sean,I did?absolutely everything so far including machining the conical >port. ?I also had some parts on the shelf already from previous >builds.Hank > >On Monday, February 8, 2016 12:07 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >I'm astonished that you could build for so little. I guess you DIY'ed >pretty much everything?Sean > > >On February 8, 2016 11:24:39 AM MST, hank pronk via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Sean,It will have to be syntactic foam holding up a 516-70 sphere, the >cheap part is the sphere. ?That is the only way I can afford to do it. >?My current sub build is at 12K and I am almost done. ?Not bad for the >depth potential. ? I will take it to Burnaby?for the ?2,000 psi test >once I am in a cash flow position. ?Low oil prices are??killing me!Hank > > >On Monday, February 8, 2016 10:18 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Titanic is sitting at 8000 fsw. That's a tight payload budget to design >within without a foam block or more exotic hull material.Sean > > >On February 8, 2016 8:38:39 AM MST, hank pronk via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: >If I have a good year this year, I hope to build a Titanic capable sub >exactly the same as what I am building now but much?heavier of coarse. >? I will have EE weld it together and I will have the machining done >for me also.Hank > >On Monday, February 8, 2016 7:30 AM, Sean ! T.Stevenson via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Funny, I could say the same thing about your budget.? ;-)Sean > > >On February 8, 2016 6:27:59 AM MST, hank pronk via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi Sean,Thank you for your efforts with your programs, they have been a >huge help to me. ? If I had your knowledge, I would be looking out my >?port at the Titanic.Hank > >On Saturday, February 6, 2016 7:03 ! AM, JonWallace via >Personal_Submersibles w! rote: > > > >The latest version of the STS Sub Design Software written by Sean >Stevenson is up on the web site. > >WWW.PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> Design Tools -> Calculators & > >Data Sheets > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 14:34:37 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 11:34:37 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel salvage Message-ID: <001301d162a7$bfcabb50$3f6031f0$@telus.net> Good question, Hank. Wrecks are often owned by individuals or corporations. Military wrecks are owned in perpetuity by the original country of flag. Unless the owner publicly relinquishes ownership, an abandoned vessel is still owned by the original owner and is not finders keepers. Maritime law is very specific in that someone who salvages an abandoned vessel may earn a reward for their efforts based on the risks taken, but the vessel and all fittings and cargo are still owned by the original vessel owner. Wreckers don't have a lot of legal footing these days. All that 1700's Spanish gold all over the east coast still really belongs to Spain, but they have only just now started chasing their rights on more recent wrecks. When you find that Spanish Galleon wrecked in Lake Minnewanka you better get a lawyer. The Titanic requires a permit from someone and would likely only allow looking but no touching, and certainly no taking. Tim Here is BC any vessel on the bottom for two years or more is owned by the province. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, February 8, 2016 10:44 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software Scott, I bet it is well protected, I am sure a sub with no manipulators could get approval. Who decides anyways? the people that took what they want already? Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 11:36 AM, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I actually think the RMS Titanic is at 12,500 fsw and I believe has pretty strict rules and permits required to dive it. -Scott Waters -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > Date: Mon, February 08, 2016 11:18 am To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Titanic is sitting at 8000 fsw. That's a tight payload budget to design within without a foam block or more exotic hull material. Sean On February 8, 2016 8:38:39 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: If I have a good year this year, I hope to build a Titanic capable sub exactly the same as what I am building now but much heavier of coarse. I will have EE weld it together and I will have the machining done for me also. Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 7:30 AM, Sean ! T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Funny, I could say the same thing about your budget. ;-) Sean On February 8, 2016 6:27:59 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Sean, Thank you for your efforts with your programs, they have been a huge help to me. If I had your knowledge, I would be looking out my port at the Titanic. Hank On Saturday, February 6, 2016 7:03 ! AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > w! rote: The latest version of the STS Sub Design Software written by Sean Stevenson is up on the web site. WWW.PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> Design Tools -> Calculators & Data Sheets _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _____ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _____ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _____ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 14:46:49 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2016 12:46:49 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pisces Message-ID: <20160208124649.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.38f639f3e4.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 14:54:21 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 19:54:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pisces In-Reply-To: <20160208124649.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.38f639f3e4.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20160208124649.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.38f639f3e4.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <31314790.843388.1454961261271.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Wow,You will need a golf cart to get around in your shop!Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 12:47 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sorry, I have been going 100 different directions lately.?The shop has been delivered from the manufacturer and I have the footings dug and will be pouring concrete next weekend. I should have the slab done in two weeks or so and the shop main structure should be done in a month to month and a half. When I am done I will have a 85'x38' shop. It will be a hell of a facility with 18' tall ceilings a gantry crane, welding room, office, and paint booth. I can't wait to have it done and to start on the refit of Pisces VI.?Thank you,Scott Waters? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pisces From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: Mon, February 08, 2016 1:04 pm To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Scott,Do you have an update for us on your shop slash Pisces project,?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 14:48:44 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 19:48:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel salvage In-Reply-To: <001301d162a7$bfcabb50$3f6031f0$@telus.net> References: <001301d162a7$bfcabb50$3f6031f0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <351462874.958721.1454960924223.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Tim,How can anyone claim the water it sits in. ?I understand the rights of the ship owner, they do not own the ground it sits on or the area around it. ?If so then they?should ?be paying rent to the land owner lol. ?Who has jurisdiction in international waters, hmmm maybe Canada has a say.Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 12:35 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Good question, Hank.Wrecks are often owned by individuals or corporations.? Military wrecks are owned in perpetuity by the original country of flag.? Unless the owner publicly relinquishes ownership, an abandoned vessel is still owned by the original owner and is not finders keepers.? Maritime law is very specific in that someone who salvages an abandoned vessel may earn a reward for their efforts based on the risks taken, but the vessel and all fittings and cargo are still owned by the original vessel owner.? Wreckers don't have a lot of legal footing these days.? All that 1700's Spanish gold all over the east coast still really belongs to Spain, but they have only just now started chasing their rights on more recent wrecks. When you find that Spanish Galleon wrecked in Lake Minnewanka you better get a lawyer.The Titanic requires a permit from someone and would likely only allow looking but no touching, and certainly no taking.Tim ? ?Here is BC any vessel on the bottom for two years or more is owned by the province. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, February 8, 2016 10:44 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software ?Scott,I bet it is well protected, I am sure a sub with no manipulators could get approval. ?Who decides anyways? the people that took what they want already??Hank ?On Monday, February 8, 2016 11:36 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?I actually think the?RMS Titanic is at 12,500 fsw and I believe has pretty strict rules and permits required to dive it.?-Scott Waters?? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" Date: Mon, February 08, 2016 11:18 am To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Titanic is sitting at 8000 fsw. That's a tight payload budget to design within without a foam block or more exotic hull material.Sean ?On February 8, 2016 8:38:39 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: If I have a good year this year, I hope to build a Titanic capable sub exactly the same as what I am building now but much?heavier of coarse. ? I will have EE weld it together and I will have the machining done for me also.Hank ?On Monday, February 8, 2016 7:30 AM, Sean ! T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Funny, I could say the same thing about your budget.? ;-)Sean ?On February 8, 2016 6:27:59 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Sean,Thank you for your efforts with your programs, they have been a huge help to me. ? If I had your knowledge, I would be looking out my ?port at the Titanic.Hank ?On Saturday, February 6, 2016 7:03 ! AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles w! rote: ? The latest version of the STS Sub Design Software written by Sean Stevenson is up on the web site. WWW.PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> Design Tools -> Calculators & Data Sheets _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 15:16:28 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 21:16:28 +0100 (MET) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel salvage In-Reply-To: <001301d162a7$bfcabb50$3f6031f0$@telus.net> References: <001301d162a7$bfcabb50$3f6031f0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1454962588753.762224.1df625f3fced9ff62137221e2c2e98a1133fc36a@spica.telekom.de> Regarding the Titanic this rules apply: http://www.noaa.gov/titanic/noaasrole.html As you can see they apply for you as US people - but not for me. Titanic is in international waters - the owners takes no salvage operation for many years. To international laws she is free. But not for national rules for US citens and Canada and Great Britain which sign a protection act together. If a US Citens blow her up to search for the diamonds he will get in jail. If a German blow her up - maybe nothimg will happen. :-0 (Maybe as long as he not sail to the US..) Same is here with the Estonia wreck in the Baltic Sea. Diving is prohibided there. But only for Fins, Swedish, Russian, Estland and so on divers. Only for people of staates sign a national protection act togehter .. That the spains gets there gold back has maybe only the reason that the ship was a "man of war" a warship. Seems warshp which sunk with there flag on it - are still goverment property. The German Aircraft carrier Graf Zeppelin for example - is NOT belong to the German Goverment. An AIRCRAFT CARRIER of over 200 meter. But he was not finished and never a warship and he hands obver to the russian end of the war which scuttled him after the as target. And any time a owner scuttled his ship - he lost the right on it - ever if it s a warship. But only in internatonal waters. In national waters the rules are sometimes very different. National water in case of wrecks means 12 sm. Not 200 sm. The 200sm line is on international rules apply to fishery and natural treasues like oil. But not to wrecks. But the Aircraft Carrer is just outside the polish nationjal waters. So in general free. But diving here needs a permission from the polish goverment ! The argument is that there is a hell of ammunition and just 2sm away is an big oil rigg. So it if forbitten there to dive without permission because of "National security." But at the end a wreck is may on ownership by the goverment with the bigger warship still aflot close by.. :-0 vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel salvage Datum: 2016-02-08T20:39:15+0100 Von: "T Novak via Personal_Submersibles" An: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Good question, Hank. Wrecks are often owned by individuals or corporations. Military wrecks are owned in perpetuity by the original country of flag. Unless the owner publicly relinquishes ownership, an abandoned vessel is still owned by the original owner and is not finders keepers. Maritime law is very specific in that someone who salvages an abandoned vessel may earn a reward for their efforts based on the risks taken, but the vessel and all fittings and cargo are still owned by the original vessel owner. Wreckers don't have a lot of legal footing these days. All that 1700's Spanish gold all over the east coast still really belongs to Spain, but they have only just now started chasing their rights on more recent wrecks. When you find that Spanish Galleon wrecked in Lake Minnewanka you better get a lawyer. The Titanic requires a permit from someone and would likely only allow looking but no touching, and certainly no taking. Tim Here is BC any vessel on the bottom for two years or more is owned by the province. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, February 8, 2016 10:44 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software Scott, I bet it is well protected, I am sure a sub with no manipulators could get approval. Who decides anyways? the people that took what they want already? Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 11:36 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: I actually think the RMS Titanic is at 12,500 fsw and I believe has pretty strict rules and permits required to dive it. -Scott Waters -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > Date: Mon, February 08, 2016 11:18 am To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Titanic is sitting at 8000 fsw. That's a tight payload budget to design within without a foam block or more exotic hull material. Sean On February 8, 2016 8:38:39 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: If I have a good year this year, I hope to build a Titanic capable sub exactly the same as what I am building now but much heavier of coarse. I will have EE weld it together and I will have the machining done for me also. Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 7:30 AM, Sean ! T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Funny, I could say the same thing about your budget. ;-) Sean On February 8, 2016 6:27:59 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Sean, Thank you for your efforts with your programs, they have been a huge help to me. If I had your knowledge, I would be looking out my port at the Titanic. Hank On Saturday, February 6, 2016 7:03 ! AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > w! rote: The latest version of the STS Sub Design Software written by Sean Stevenson is up on the web site. WWW.PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> Design Tools -> Calculators & Data Sheets _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------------------------------------------------------------- Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 15:21:00 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 21:21:00 +0100 (MET) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel salvage In-Reply-To: <351462874.958721.1454960924223.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <001301d162a7$bfcabb50$3f6031f0$@telus.net> <351462874.958721.1454960924223.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1454962860023.778793.6989804d77489b1fa79363bd4daa12d5e768daec@spica.telekom.de> In general you can dive to any wreck and take a look. Things change if you get you hands or grap on it. In some German Countrys even the search for wrecks with aboat with special electronics like side scan or magnetometer need a permission. But it is much more complicate - nearly each staate has own special rules. vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel salvage Datum: 2016-02-08T21:05:44+0100 Von: "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Tim, How can anyone claim the water it sits in. I understand the rights of the ship owner, they do not own the ground it sits on or the area around it. If so then they should be paying rent to the land owner lol. Who has jurisdiction in international waters, hmmm maybe Canada has a say. Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 12:35 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Good question, Hank. Wrecks are often owned by individuals or corporations. Military wrecks are owned in perpetuity by the original country of flag. Unless the owner publicly relinquishes ownership, an abandoned vessel is still owned by the original owner and is not finders keepers. Maritime law is very specific in that someone who salvages an abandoned vessel may earn a reward for their efforts based on the risks taken, but the vessel and all fittings and cargo are still owned by the original vessel owner. Wreckers don't have a lot of legal footing these days. All that 1700's Spanish gold all over the east coast still really belongs to Spain, but they have only just now started chasing their rights on more recent wrecks. When you find that Spanish Galleon wrecked in Lake Minnewanka you better get a lawyer. The Titanic requires a permit from someone and would likely only allow looking but no touching, and certainly no taking. Tim Here is BC any vessel on the bottom for two years or more is owned by the province. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, February 8, 2016 10:44 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software Scott, I bet it is well protected, I am sure a sub with no manipulators could get approval. Who decides anyways? the people that took what they want already? Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 11:36 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: I actually think the RMS Titanic is at 12,500 fsw and I believe has pretty strict rules and permits required to dive it. -Scott Waters -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > Date: Mon, February 08, 2016 11:18 am To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Titanic is sitting at 8000 fsw. That's a tight payload budget to design within without a foam block or more exotic hull material. Sean On February 8, 2016 8:38:39 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: If I have a good year this year, I hope to build a Titanic capable sub exactly the same as what I am building now but much heavier of coarse. I will have EE weld it together and I will have the machining done for me also. Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 7:30 AM, Sean ! T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Funny, I could say the same thing about your budget. ;-) Sean On February 8, 2016 6:27:59 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Sean, Thank you for your efforts with your programs, they have been a huge help to me. If I had your knowledge, I would be looking out my port at the Titanic. Hank On Saturday, February 6, 2016 7:03 ! AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > w! rote: The latest version of the STS Sub Design Software written by Sean Stevenson is up on the web site. WWW.PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> Design Tools -> Calculators & Data Sheets _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------------------------------------------------------------- Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 15:28:03 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2016 13:28:03 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel salvage Message-ID: <20160208132803.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.5f307505a1.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 15:36:22 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 12:36:22 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel salvage In-Reply-To: <20160208132803.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.5f307505a1.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <1454963782.55612.YahooMailMobile@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> It is not likely to matter, I would only be looking. I am a go for it guy, just ask for forgiveness after the job is done. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 17:26:37 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 22:26:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull In-Reply-To: <56B8D565.4010703@psubs.org> References: <20160208071544.8467A408@m0087795.ppops.net> <56B8D565.4010703@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1826261402.1217841.1454970397143.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Jon,I remember those subconn connectors were rated in relation to thethick insulation surrounding them.? 2 contacts current rating: 10 A per contact (max 20 A per connector) 3, 4 and 5 contacts current rating: 10 A per contact (max 30 A per connector)So it's not just the wire gauge you need to take?in to consideration.There are charts like this one I just Googled for selecting required wire thickness.Wire Gauges - Current Ratings | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | Wire Gauges - Current RatingsCommon US wire gauges - AWG gauges and their current ratings | | | | View on www.engineeringtoolbox.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | If you tell us the diameter of the hole, I will let you know if I come across asuitable through-hull fitting.Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, February 9, 2016 6:50 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull Anyone know how the delron is going to hold up to being banged on assuming I swing the sub around and something hits it?? Maybe a stainless body with a delron insert would be a better design from that perspective? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 18:15:14 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 23:15:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Knotstick References: <1386297377.1172304.1454973314930.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1386297377.1172304.1454973314930.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I posted this on the 7th but didn't see it.Apologies if you already received it.Anyone looked at or used these.They record speed.http://www.knotstick.com/ They look like they could be mounted by a side view portto show speed. I had to google images of them to see how they wereconstructed. It's a disk on a string that drags through the water. It is attached?to a stainless spring in a cylinder & as the spring is extended it pushes a white sleevealong a calibration marked on the cylinder to indicate speed.Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 18:31:49 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 18:31:49 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators In-Reply-To: <291651116.559444.1454902075531.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <291651116.559444.1454902075531.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <291651116.559444.1454902075531.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56B92565.8030804@psubs.org> Don't have calipers but will get a good one soon so I can get some measurements. Jon On 2/7/2016 10:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Jon, > I just realized that your penetrator holes are in the aft head, so my > last idea is bad! Derlin is the way to go. Do you have a caliber to > get some accurate measurements? > > Hank > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 19:03:53 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 00:03:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators In-Reply-To: <56B92565.8030804@psubs.org> References: <56B92565.8030804@psubs.org> Message-ID: <2085412085.941711.1454976233591.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Jon,Great, if you can give me the?measurements I can whip them up for you and you can thread the rods in. ?Also let me know the grade of Derlin and I will see if I can get it here.Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 4:31 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Don't have calipers but will get a good one soon so I can get some measurements. Jon On 2/7/2016 10:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, I just realized that your penetrator holes are in the aft head, so my last idea is bad! ?Derlin is the way to go. ?Do you have a caliber to get some accurate measurements?? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 19:21:18 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 11:21:18 +1100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull In-Reply-To: <56B8D565.4010703@psubs.org> References: <20160208071544.8467A408@m0087795.ppops.net> <56B8D565.4010703@psubs.org> Message-ID: Hi Jon, Regarding banging delrin around, I can add that it's the plastic of choice for tech diving canister lights (which have 200m+ ratings), reels and general paraphernalia, and it has an excellent track record. I have a book about DIY dive lights (it's by Steve Lindblom and is pretty cheap if you're in the states) which went into a good discussion on plastics and why delrin was right up there - properties like being impervious to water, impact resistant, pretty strong, easy to machine, good over a range of temperatures, etc. Cheers, Steve On 9 Feb 2016 4:51 am, "Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Anyone know how the delron is going to hold up to being banged on assuming > I swing the sub around and something hits it? Maybe a stainless body with > a delron insert would be a better design from that perspective? > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 20:34:04 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2016 18:34:04 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Electrical thru-hull In-Reply-To: References: <20160208071544.8467A408@m0087795.ppops.net> <56B8D565.4010703@psubs.org> Message-ID: Outside of acrylic (Plexiglas) and polycarbonate (Lexan), there are three other plastics which I tend to employ often: acetal (Delrin), ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene (UHMW), and perfluoroalkoxy alkane (PFA). I use Delrin for most machined components when plastic is preferable to metal for reasons of corrosion resistance, thermal or electrical insulation, avoiding wear, etc., but I otherwise need a reasonably strong, reasonably hard dimensionally stable part that is easy to machine. UHMW I use for skids, bumpers, wear plates, spacers, stops, insulators, component mounts and other parts which do not demand tight tolerances, but still can perform well. UHMW is great for tubing mounts. PFA I use when I need chemical resistance, or for any components in breathing conduits, potable water or food safe applications, as it is easily disinfected and does not present any offgassing or toxicity risk, and behaves otherwise like PTFE (Teflon). Sean On February 8, 2016 5:21:18 PM MST, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi Jon, >Regarding banging delrin around, I can add that it's the plastic of >choice >for tech diving canister lights (which have 200m+ ratings), reels and >general paraphernalia, and it has an excellent track record. > >I have a book about DIY dive lights (it's by Steve Lindblom and is >pretty >cheap if you're in the states) which went into a good discussion on >plastics and why delrin was right up there - properties like being >impervious to water, impact resistant, pretty strong, easy to machine, >good >over a range of temperatures, etc. > >Cheers, >Steve >On 9 Feb 2016 4:51 am, "Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles" < >personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> >> Anyone know how the delron is going to hold up to being banged on >assuming >> I swing the sub around and something hits it? Maybe a stainless body >with >> a delron insert would be a better design from that perspective? >> >> Jon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 21:07:10 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 21:07:10 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Knotstick In-Reply-To: <1386297377.1172304.1454973314930.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1386297377.1172304.1454973314930.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1386297377.1172304.1454973314930.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Cool concept, thanks for sharing Alan. I'll have to look into one of those, I like the simplest way of doing things! ~ Douglas S. On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I posted this on the 7th but didn't see it. > Apologies if you already received it. > Anyone looked at or used these. > They record speed. > http://www.knotstick.com/ > They look like they could be mounted by a side view port > to show speed. I had to google images of them to see how they were > constructed. It's a disk on a string that drags through the water. It is > attached > to a stainless spring in a cylinder & as the spring is extended it pushes > a white sleeve > along a calibration marked on the cylinder to indicate speed. > Alan > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 8 21:41:01 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 02:41:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Knotstick In-Reply-To: References: <1386297377.1172304.1454973314930.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1386297377.1172304.1454973314930.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <441749140.1255721.1454985661066.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Doug,to adapt it to a submarine you would need to do something like?house the disk end in a 3" diameter piece of plastic tubing.You could attach a fine nylon line to the back of the disk & toa hole in the pipe to stop the disk drifting out & tangling somewhere.Make sure there is enough slack in the nylon that it doesn't interfere withthe disks range of movement.We could probably adapt this concept & come up with a submarine specificitem. Maybe a clear tube with the disk inside pushing against a spring, with thedisk moving along markings on the tube.Alan ? From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, February 9, 2016 3:07 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Knotstick Cool concept, thanks for sharing Alan. I'll have to look into one of those, I like the simplest way of doing things! ~ Douglas S.? On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I posted this on the 7th but didn't see it.Apologies if you already received it.Anyone looked at or used these.They record speed.http://www.knotstick.com/ They look like they could be mounted by a side view portto show speed. I had to google images of them to see how they wereconstructed. It's a disk on a string that drags through the water. It is attached?to a stainless spring in a cylinder & as the spring is extended it pushes a white sleevealong a calibration marked on the cylinder to indicate speed.Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 9 04:52:03 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 09:52:03 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software In-Reply-To: <20160208113603.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.07505dbd61.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20160208113603.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.07505dbd61.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: I can say that I have touched the titanic already. I went to the exhibition in Las Vegas and they had "The big piece" which is a massive piece of hull they recovered. I nipped under the barriers when no one was looking and manhandled the hull..... :) On 8 February 2016 at 18:36, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I actually think the RMS Titanic is at 12,500 fsw and I believe has pretty > strict rules and permits required to dive it. > > -Scott Waters > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > > Date: Mon, February 08, 2016 11:18 am > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > Titanic is sitting at 8000 fsw. That's a tight payload budget to design > within without a foam block or more exotic hull material. > Sean > > > On February 8, 2016 8:38:39 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> If I have a good year this year, I hope to build a Titanic capable sub >> exactly the same as what I am building now but much heavier of coarse. I >> will have EE weld it together and I will have the machining done for me >> also. >> Hank >> >> >> On Monday, February 8, 2016 7:30 AM, Sean ! T. Stevenson via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Funny, I could say the same thing about your budget. ;-) >> Sean >> >> >> On February 8, 2016 6:27:59 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi Sean, >> Thank you for your efforts with your programs, they have been a huge help >> to me. If I had your knowledge, I would be looking out my port at the >> Titanic. >> Hank >> >> >> On Saturday, February 6, 2016 7:03 ! AM, Jon Wallace via >> Personal_Submersibles w! rote: >> >> >> >> The latest version of the STS Sub Design Software written by Sean >> Stevenson is up on the web site. >> >> WWW.PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> Design Tools -> Calculators & >> Data Sheets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> ------------------------------ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 9 08:26:14 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 13:26:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <366127303.1172766.1455024374796.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Very nice! On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 2:52 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I can say that I have touched the titanic already.? I went to the exhibition in Las Vegas and they had "The big piece" which is a massive piece of hull they recovered.? I nipped under the barriers when no one was looking and manhandled the hull.....? :)?? On 8 February 2016 at 18:36, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I actually think the?RMS Titanic is at 12,500 fsw and I believe has pretty strict rules and permits required to dive it.?-Scott Waters?? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" Date: Mon, February 08, 2016 11:18 am To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Titanic is sitting at 8000 fsw. That's a tight payload budget to design within without a foam block or more exotic hull material.Sean On February 8, 2016 8:38:39 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: If I have a good year this year, I hope to build a Titanic capable sub exactly the same as what I am building now but much?heavier of coarse. ? I will have EE weld it together and I will have the machining done for me also.Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 7:30 AM, Sean ! T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Funny, I could say the same thing about your budget.? ;-)Sean On February 8, 2016 6:27:59 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Sean,Thank you for your efforts with your programs, they have been a huge help to me. ? If I had your knowledge, I would be looking out my ?port at the Titanic.Hank On Saturday, February 6, 2016 7:03 ! AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles w! rote: The latest version of the STS Sub Design Software written by Sean Stevenson is up on the web site. WWW.PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> Design Tools -> Calculators & Data Sheets _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 9 08:27:50 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 08:27:50 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Knotstick In-Reply-To: <441749140.1255721.1454985661066.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1386297377.1172304.1454973314930.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1386297377.1172304.1454973314930.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <441749140.1255721.1454985661066.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I like the idea! ~ Douglas S. On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 9:41 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Doug, > to adapt it to a submarine you would need to do something like > house the disk end in a 3" diameter piece of plastic tubing. > You could attach a fine nylon line to the back of the disk & to > a hole in the pipe to stop the disk drifting out & tangling somewhere. > Make sure there is enough slack in the nylon that it doesn't interfere with > the disks range of movement. > We could probably adapt this concept & come up with a submarine specific > item. Maybe a clear tube with the disk inside pushing against a spring, > with the > disk moving along markings on the tube. > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 9, 2016 3:07 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Knotstick > > Cool concept, thanks for sharing Alan. I'll have to look into one of > those, I like the simplest way of doing things! ~ Douglas S. > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I posted this on the 7th but didn't see it. > Apologies if you already received it. > Anyone looked at or used these. > They record speed. > http://www.knotstick.com/ > They look like they could be mounted by a side view port > to show speed. I had to google images of them to see how they were > constructed. It's a disk on a string that drags through the water. It is > attached > to a stainless spring in a cylinder & as the spring is extended it pushes > a white sleeve > along a calibration marked on the cylinder to indicate speed. > Alan > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 9 10:48:05 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 07:48:05 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Knotstick Message-ID: <20160209074805.C2C5B7EF@m0087798.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 9 10:52:25 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 07:52:25 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators Message-ID: <20160209075225.C2C5B14E@m0087798.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 9 11:42:53 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 16:42:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators In-Reply-To: <20160209075225.C2C5B14E@m0087798.ppops.net> References: <20160209075225.C2C5B14E@m0087798.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1025719175.1219225.1455036173056.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Jon,I will have to research drilling size for 1\4 inch, but yes, I will drill under size then run a tap through to make the threads. ?To keep it simple, I would like to do two o-rings on the bore with an over size end to create a shoulder and then a snap ring to retain it. ?You would get the penetrator with a hole or holes bored through and three grooves, two for o-rings and one for the snap ring. ?All you will have to do is cut the rod to length and thread it in with some epoxy on the threads. ?Hank On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 8:52 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,??? so to clarify on the Delrin, a copper threaded rod ( 1/4" for instance) would get threaded into the Delrin?? Would you just make an undersized hole then?? and the copper rod would form a thread all the way through??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 00:03:53 +0000 (UTC) Jon,Great, if you can give me the?measurements I can whip them up for you and you can thread the rods in. ?Also let me know the grade of Derlin and I will see if I can get it here.Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 4:31 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Don't have calipers but will get a good one soon so I can get some measurements. Jon On 2/7/2016 10:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, I just realized that your penetrator holes are in the aft head, so my last idea is bad! ?Derlin is the way to go. ?Do you have a caliber to get some accurate measurements?? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 9 12:47:22 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 09:47:22 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators Message-ID: <20160209094722.C2C582C6@m0087798.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 9 13:12:50 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 18:12:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators In-Reply-To: <20160209094722.C2C582C6@m0087798.ppops.net> References: <20160209094722.C2C582C6@m0087798.ppops.net> Message-ID: <187231525.1266472.1455041570401.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,If that is the case I will drill and tap from the bottom as far as possible, then drill oversize from the top so the threaded rod will slide in?until it hits threads.Hank On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 10:47 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank,??????????????????? Brian here, but no matter, if the threads are very long isn't it difficult to make threads going that distance?? My experience with threads are at the most an 1 1/2" long .??Would you have to get an extra long tape??? ?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 16:42:53 +0000 (UTC) Jon,I will have to research drilling size for 1\4 inch, but yes, I will drill under size then run a tap through to make the threads. ?To keep it simple, I would like to do two o-rings on the bore with an over size end to create a shoulder and then a snap ring to retain it. ?You would get the penetrator with a hole or holes bored through and three grooves, two for o-rings and one for the snap ring. ?All you will have to do is cut the rod to length and thread it in with some epoxy on the threads. ?Hank On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 8:52 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,??? so to clarify on the Delrin, a copper threaded rod ( 1/4" for instance) would get threaded into the Delrin?? Would you just make an undersized hole then?? and the copper rod would form a thread all the way through??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 00:03:53 +0000 (UTC) Jon,Great, if you can give me the?measurements I can whip them up for you and you can thread the rods in. ?Also let me know the grade of Derlin and I will see if I can get it here.Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 4:31 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Don't have calipers but will get a good one soon so I can get some measurements. Jon On 2/7/2016 10:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, I just realized that your penetrator holes are in the aft head, so my last idea is bad! ?Derlin is the way to go. ?Do you have a caliber to get some accurate measurements?? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 9 14:13:49 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 14:13:49 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators In-Reply-To: <20160209075225.C2C5B14E@m0087798.ppops.net> References: <20160209075225.C2C5B14E@m0087798.ppops.net> Message-ID: <56BA3A6D.1020903@psubs.org> Preference would be threaded all the way, total length of 2.5 inches. If that's not possible then Hank's suggestion of just getting as much threading as possible should work. I'm not sure if a threaded rod would cut threads in the delron the rest of the way...maybe Sean knows, sounds like he's worked with it before. 1/4 inch rod would be serious overkill for my application. The MK-101's only use #10 wire and so 8-32 should be more than adequate. Jon On 2/9/2016 10:52 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hank, so to clarify on the Delrin, a copper threaded rod ( 1/4" for > instance) would get threaded into the Delrin? Would you just make an > undersized hole then? and the copper rod would form a thread all the > way through? > Brian > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 9 14:11:12 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 19:11:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators In-Reply-To: <187231525.1266472.1455041570401.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160209094722.C2C582C6@m0087798.ppops.net> <187231525.1266472.1455041570401.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2094896745.1683738.1455045072051.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,once the external wires are soldered to the pins, howare you intending that it is waterproofed. IE is Jon goingto pot over the wires, wire sheath & delrin. ?If so what isgoing to adhere well to the delrin?Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 7:12 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators Brian,If that is the case I will drill and tap from the bottom as far as possible, then drill oversize from the top so the threaded rod will slide in?until it hits threads.Hank On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 10:47 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank,??????????????????? Brian here, but no matter, if the threads are very long isn't it difficult to make threads going that distance?? My experience with threads are at the most an 1 1/2" long .??Would you have to get an extra long tape??? ?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 16:42:53 +0000 (UTC) Jon,I will have to research drilling size for 1\4 inch, but yes, I will drill under size then run a tap through to make the threads. ?To keep it simple, I would like to do two o-rings on the bore with an over size end to create a shoulder and then a snap ring to retain it. ?You would get the penetrator with a hole or holes bored through and three grooves, two for o-rings and one for the snap ring. ?All you will have to do is cut the rod to length and thread it in with some epoxy on the threads. ?Hank On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 8:52 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,??? so to clarify on the Delrin, a copper threaded rod ( 1/4" for instance) would get threaded into the Delrin?? Would you just make an undersized hole then?? and the copper rod would form a thread all the way through??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 00:03:53 +0000 (UTC) Jon,Great, if you can give me the?measurements I can whip them up for you and you can thread the rods in. ?Also let me know the grade of Derlin and I will see if I can get it here.Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 4:31 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Don't have calipers but will get a good one soon so I can get some measurements. Jon On 2/7/2016 10:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, I just realized that your penetrator holes are in the aft head, so my last idea is bad! ?Derlin is the way to go. ?Do you have a caliber to get some accurate measurements?? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 9 14:20:37 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 14:20:37 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators In-Reply-To: <56BA3A6D.1020903@psubs.org> References: <20160209075225.C2C5B14E@m0087798.ppops.net> <56BA3A6D.1020903@psubs.org> Message-ID: <56BA3C05.4000608@psubs.org> A tool something like this for making long threads in a bore hole? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AQUodkQZbg From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 9 14:32:03 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 14:32:03 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators In-Reply-To: <2094896745.1683738.1455045072051.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160209094722.C2C582C6@m0087798.ppops.net> <187231525.1266472.1455041570401.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <2094896745.1683738.1455045072051.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56BA3EB3.9040302@psubs.org> Yes. See attachment. On 2/9/2016 2:11 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hank, > once the external wires are soldered to the pins, how > are you intending that it is waterproofed. IE is Jon going > to pot over the wires, wire sheath & delrin. If so what is > going to adhere well to the delrin? > Cheers Alan > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: thru-hull-4.png Type: image/png Size: 6489 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 9 14:35:58 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 19:35:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators In-Reply-To: <2094896745.1683738.1455045072051.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2094896745.1683738.1455045072051.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <93549702.1350179.1455046558850.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Jon had a drawing showing a reservoir and assume that is the way he will want it. ?I like that idea and would fill the void to?encapsulate the connection. ?It could have a shrink tube over that as well. ?I like how clean your idea is as a final result. ?Maybe Jon will like a combination of your idea with his. ?Maybe an oil filled hose between the two destinations. ?I am lucky because I deal with fresh water and it is more forgiving.Hank On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 12:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,once the external wires are soldered to the pins, howare you intending that it is waterproofed. IE is Jon goingto pot over the wires, wire sheath & delrin. ?If so what isgoing to adhere well to the delrin?Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 7:12 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators Brian,If that is the case I will drill and tap from the bottom as far as possible, then drill oversize from the top so the threaded rod will slide in?until it hits threads.Hank On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 10:47 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank,??????????????????? Brian here, but no matter, if the threads are very long isn't it difficult to make threads going that distance?? My experience with threads are at the most an 1 1/2" long .??Would you have to get an extra long tape??? ?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 16:42:53 +0000 (UTC) Jon,I will have to research drilling size for 1\4 inch, but yes, I will drill under size then run a tap through to make the threads. ?To keep it simple, I would like to do two o-rings on the bore with an over size end to create a shoulder and then a snap ring to retain it. ?You would get the penetrator with a hole or holes bored through and three grooves, two for o-rings and one for the snap ring. ?All you will have to do is cut the rod to length and thread it in with some epoxy on the threads. ?Hank On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 8:52 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,??? so to clarify on the Delrin, a copper threaded rod ( 1/4" for instance) would get threaded into the Delrin?? Would you just make an undersized hole then?? and the copper rod would form a thread all the way through??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 00:03:53 +0000 (UTC) Jon,Great, if you can give me the?measurements I can whip them up for you and you can thread the rods in. ?Also let me know the grade of Derlin and I will see if I can get it here.Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 4:31 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Don't have calipers but will get a good one soon so I can get some measurements. Jon On 2/7/2016 10:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, I just realized that your penetrator holes are in the aft head, so my last idea is bad! ?Derlin is the way to go. ?Do you have a caliber to get some accurate measurements?? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 9 14:39:44 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 19:39:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators In-Reply-To: <56BA3EB3.9040302@psubs.org> References: <56BA3EB3.9040302@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1706467085.1314360.1455046785003.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Jon,That is perfect in my opinion. ?As for that tool on you tube, it is longer than a tap alright. ?I am confident that 2 inches of thread is sufficient with epoxy in the unthreaded portion.Hank On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 12:32 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes.? See attachment. On 2/9/2016 2:11 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, once the external wires are soldered to the pins, how are you intending that it is waterproofed. IE is Jon going to pot over the wires, wire sheath & delrin. ?If so what is going to adhere well to the delrin? Cheers Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 9 15:31:53 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 20:31:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators In-Reply-To: <56BA3EB3.9040302@psubs.org> References: <20160209094722.C2C582C6@m0087798.ppops.net> <187231525.1266472.1455041570401.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <2094896745.1683738.1455045072051.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <56BA3EB3.9040302@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1840367880.1707748.1455049913447.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks, I see.Maybe Sean could comment on epoxies adhesion to delrin,you may need to go to some more exotic resin like vinyl ester.Perhaps Hank could cut a couple of grooves in the outside& inside of the connector part to key in the epoxy.I potted some wires through an inch or so of epoxy to oil compensatea linear actuator & the oil just ran down between the epoxy & insulated wirewith no pressure involved.Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators Yes.? See attachment. On 2/9/2016 2:11 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, once the external wires are soldered to the pins, how are you intending that it is waterproofed. IE is Jon going to pot over the wires, wire sheath & delrin. ?If so what is going to adhere well to the delrin? Cheers Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 9 15:48:56 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 20:48:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators In-Reply-To: <1025719175.1219225.1455036173056.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160209075225.C2C5B14E@m0087798.ppops.net> <1025719175.1219225.1455036173056.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1391558019.1694783.1455050936907.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,if you had a snap ring to retain it, if there were anyslop or the positioning was slightly out it could fail.Would it be better to put an external thread on the delrin(by hand) on the portion that protrudes in to the hull& tighten it up with a nut.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 5:42 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators Jon,I will have to research drilling size for 1\4 inch, but yes, I will drill under size then run a tap through to make the threads. ?To keep it simple, I would like to do two o-rings on the bore with an over size end to create a shoulder and then a snap ring to retain it. ?You would get the penetrator with a hole or holes bored through and three grooves, two for o-rings and one for the snap ring. ?All you will have to do is cut the rod to length and thread it in with some epoxy on the threads. ?Hank On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 8:52 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,??? so to clarify on the Delrin, a copper threaded rod ( 1/4" for instance) would get threaded into the Delrin?? Would you just make an undersized hole then?? and the copper rod would form a thread all the way through??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 00:03:53 +0000 (UTC) Jon,Great, if you can give me the?measurements I can whip them up for you and you can thread the rods in. ?Also let me know the grade of Derlin and I will see if I can get it here.Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 4:31 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Don't have calipers but will get a good one soon so I can get some measurements. Jon On 2/7/2016 10:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, I just realized that your penetrator holes are in the aft head, so my last idea is bad! ?Derlin is the way to go. ?Do you have a caliber to get some accurate measurements?? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 9 16:11:05 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 13:11:05 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators Message-ID: <20160209131105.C2BB88CA@m0087792.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 9 16:13:25 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 21:13:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators In-Reply-To: <1391558019.1694783.1455050936907.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1391558019.1694783.1455050936907.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1259462049.1372373.1455052405578.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I was thinking snap ring to keep it simple and they are quite reliable, but I am ?easy. ?Hank On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 1:48 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,if you had a snap ring to retain it, if there were anyslop or the positioning was slightly out it could fail.Would it be better to put an external thread on the delrin(by hand) on the portion that protrudes in to the hull& tighten it up with a nut.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 5:42 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators Jon,I will have to research drilling size for 1\4 inch, but yes, I will drill under size then run a tap through to make the threads. ?To keep it simple, I would like to do two o-rings on the bore with an over size end to create a shoulder and then a snap ring to retain it. ?You would get the penetrator with a hole or holes bored through and three grooves, two for o-rings and one for the snap ring. ?All you will have to do is cut the rod to length and thread it in with some epoxy on the threads. ?Hank On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 8:52 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,??? so to clarify on the Delrin, a copper threaded rod ( 1/4" for instance) would get threaded into the Delrin?? Would you just make an undersized hole then?? and the copper rod would form a thread all the way through??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 00:03:53 +0000 (UTC) Jon,Great, if you can give me the?measurements I can whip them up for you and you can thread the rods in. ?Also let me know the grade of Derlin and I will see if I can get it here.Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 4:31 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Don't have calipers but will get a good one soon so I can get some measurements. Jon On 2/7/2016 10:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, I just realized that your penetrator holes are in the aft head, so my last idea is bad! ?Derlin is the way to go. ?Do you have a caliber to get some accurate measurements?? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 9 16:45:25 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 21:45:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators In-Reply-To: <1259462049.1372373.1455052405578.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1391558019.1694783.1455050936907.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1259462049.1372373.1455052405578.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <418652931.1773009.1455054325063.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,Just thinking of how Jon would compress the o-rings.With the snap ring you could use washers to pack itout to get a bit of compression, if you can find the right?size washers & if you made the grove slightly wider than thethrough hull depth. Then you would have to grip & pull the delrinor push it from the outside.Found this article on glueing it & the key is to key it. There are gluesavailable but they only have a 10-20% strength & we need apotting compound that will adhere.http://www.polytechforum.com/cnc/what-epoxy-do-you-use-to-join-delrin-parts-16642-.htm Alan"Nothing is easy with submarines" From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators Alan,I was thinking snap ring to keep it simple and they are quite reliable, but I am ?easy. ?Hank On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 1:48 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,if you had a snap ring to retain it, if there were anyslop or the positioning was slightly out it could fail.Would it be better to put an external thread on the delrin(by hand) on the portion that protrudes in to the hull& tighten it up with a nut.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 5:42 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators Jon,I will have to research drilling size for 1\4 inch, but yes, I will drill under size then run a tap through to make the threads. ?To keep it simple, I would like to do two o-rings on the bore with an over size end to create a shoulder and then a snap ring to retain it. ?You would get the penetrator with a hole or holes bored through and three grooves, two for o-rings and one for the snap ring. ?All you will have to do is cut the rod to length and thread it in with some epoxy on the threads. ?Hank On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 8:52 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,??? so to clarify on the Delrin, a copper threaded rod ( 1/4" for instance) would get threaded into the Delrin?? Would you just make an undersized hole then?? and the copper rod would form a thread all the way through??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 00:03:53 +0000 (UTC) Jon,Great, if you can give me the?measurements I can whip them up for you and you can thread the rods in. ?Also let me know the grade of Derlin and I will see if I can get it here.Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 4:31 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Don't have calipers but will get a good one soon so I can get some measurements. Jon On 2/7/2016 10:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, I just realized that your penetrator holes are in the aft head, so my last idea is bad! ?Derlin is the way to go. ?Do you have a caliber to get some accurate measurements?? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 9 17:33:47 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 22:33:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators In-Reply-To: <418652931.1773009.1455054325063.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <418652931.1773009.1455054325063.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1447715602.1402828.1455057227147.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I am suggesting the o-rings would be on the shaft, no pre-loading required. ?Hank On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 2:48 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,Just thinking of how Jon would compress the o-rings.With the snap ring you could use washers to pack itout to get a bit of compression, if you can find the right?size washers & if you made the grove slightly wider than thethrough hull depth. Then you would have to grip & pull the delrinor push it from the outside.Found this article on glueing it & the key is to key it. There are gluesavailable but they only have a 10-20% strength & we need apotting compound that will adhere.http://www.polytechforum.com/cnc/what-epoxy-do-you-use-to-join-delrin-parts-16642-.htm Alan"Nothing is easy with submarines" From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators Alan,I was thinking snap ring to keep it simple and they are quite reliable, but I am ?easy. ?Hank On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 1:48 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,if you had a snap ring to retain it, if there were anyslop or the positioning was slightly out it could fail.Would it be better to put an external thread on the delrin(by hand) on the portion that protrudes in to the hull& tighten it up with a nut.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 5:42 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators Jon,I will have to research drilling size for 1\4 inch, but yes, I will drill under size then run a tap through to make the threads. ?To keep it simple, I would like to do two o-rings on the bore with an over size end to create a shoulder and then a snap ring to retain it. ?You would get the penetrator with a hole or holes bored through and three grooves, two for o-rings and one for the snap ring. ?All you will have to do is cut the rod to length and thread it in with some epoxy on the threads. ?Hank On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 8:52 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,??? so to clarify on the Delrin, a copper threaded rod ( 1/4" for instance) would get threaded into the Delrin?? Would you just make an undersized hole then?? and the copper rod would form a thread all the way through??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 00:03:53 +0000 (UTC) Jon,Great, if you can give me the?measurements I can whip them up for you and you can thread the rods in. ?Also let me know the grade of Derlin and I will see if I can get it here.Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 4:31 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Don't have calipers but will get a good one soon so I can get some measurements. Jon On 2/7/2016 10:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, I just realized that your penetrator holes are in the aft head, so my last idea is bad! ?Derlin is the way to go. ?Do you have a caliber to get some accurate measurements?? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 13 01:54:26 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (keith tollett via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 06:54:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software In-Reply-To: <366127303.1172766.1455024374796.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <366127303.1172766.1455024374796.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1788555746.2836317.1455346466212.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> jim, I did the same when I saw it in San Francisco with my dad. Told him I have wanted to touch her my whole life and no one was going to stop me! SHHH... don't tell anyone though....lol Keith On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 5:28 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Very nice! On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 2:52 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I can say that I have touched the titanic already.? I went to the exhibition in Las Vegas and they had "The big piece" which is a massive piece of hull they recovered.? I nipped under the barriers when no one was looking and manhandled the hull.....? :)?? On 8 February 2016 at 18:36, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I actually think the?RMS Titanic is at 12,500 fsw and I believe has pretty strict rules and permits required to dive it.?-Scott Waters?? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" Date: Mon, February 08, 2016 11:18 am To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Titanic is sitting at 8000 fsw. That's a tight payload budget to design within without a foam block or more exotic hull material.Sean On February 8, 2016 8:38:39 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: If I have a good year this year, I hope to build a Titanic capable sub exactly the same as what I am building now but much?heavier of coarse. ? I will have EE weld it together and I will have the machining done for me also.Hank On Monday, February 8, 2016 7:30 AM, Sean ! T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Funny, I could say the same thing about your budget.? ;-)Sean On February 8, 2016 6:27:59 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Sean,Thank you for your efforts with your programs, they have been a huge help to me. ? If I had your knowledge, I would be looking out my ?port at the Titanic.Hank On Saturday, February 6, 2016 7:03 ! AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles w! rote: The latest version of the STS Sub Design Software written by Sean Stevenson is up on the web site. WWW.PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> Design Tools -> Calculators & Data Sheets _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 13 13:38:56 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 18:38:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Elementary 3000 new paint In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <109999563.2997850.1455388736384.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,?Here is a picture of Elementary 3000 with first coat of paint. ?The two rings are for mounting the new ballast tank. ?I lifted the new ballast tank on with my wife and stood back and said OH! ? ?S%^$#@#$# ? it looks just like the star ship voyager from star trek. ?Now I think I will have to paint the sub ?yellow so it does not look like I built a replica star ship.Hank On Saturday, February 13, 2016 11:26 AM, hank pronk wrote: From: xxx xxxxx Sent: February 13, 2016 11:24 AM To: hankpronk at live.ca Subject: ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0281.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17641 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 13 14:09:04 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 13:09:04 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Elementary 3000 new paint In-Reply-To: <109999563.2997850.1455388736384.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <109999563.2997850.1455388736384.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <03B568F7-AD01-41B0-9FA7-4BEF612BB1E3@snyderemail.com> Absolutely nothing wrong with making it look like something from Star Trek! Super cool project. Way to go! > On Feb 13, 2016, at 12:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > Here is a picture of Elementary 3000 with first coat of paint. The two rings are for mounting the new ballast tank. I lifted the new ballast tank on with my wife and stood back and said OH! S%^$#@#$# it looks just like the star ship voyager from star trek. Now I think I will have to paint the sub yellow so it does not look like I built a replica star ship. > Hank > > > > On Saturday, February 13, 2016 11:26 AM, hank pronk wrote: > > > > > > > From: xxx xxxxx > Sent: February 13, 2016 11:24 AM > To: hankpronk at live.ca > Subject: > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 13 14:20:22 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2016 08:20:22 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Elementary 3000 new paint In-Reply-To: <03B568F7-AD01-41B0-9FA7-4BEF612BB1E3@snyderemail.com> References: <109999563.2997850.1455388736384.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <03B568F7-AD01-41B0-9FA7-4BEF612BB1E3@snyderemail.com> Message-ID: I like the Star Trek concept too Hank, "boldly go where no man has gone before" Maybe you could change it's name. Add a bit of artistic flare. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 14/02/2016, at 8:09 am, Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Absolutely nothing wrong with making it look like something from Star Trek! > Super cool project. Way to go! > >> On Feb 13, 2016, at 12:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> Here is a picture of Elementary 3000 with first coat of paint. The two rings are for mounting the new ballast tank. I lifted the new ballast tank on with my wife and stood back and said OH! S%^$#@#$# it looks just like the star ship voyager from star trek. Now I think I will have to paint the sub yellow so it does not look like I built a replica star ship. >> Hank >> >> >> >> On Saturday, February 13, 2016 11:26 AM, hank pronk wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> From: xxx xxxxx >> Sent: February 13, 2016 11:24 AM >> To: hankpronk at live.ca >> Subject: >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 13 14:26:16 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 13:26:16 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Elementary 3000 new paint In-Reply-To: References: <109999563.2997850.1455388736384.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <03B568F7-AD01-41B0-9FA7-4BEF612BB1E3@snyderemail.com> Message-ID: My initial love of psubs came from the realization that I could never have a shuttle craft of my own so Psub is the next best option! Boldly go indeed!! It is inspirational for sure. Greg > On Feb 13, 2016, at 1:20 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I like the Star Trek concept too Hank, > "boldly go where no man has gone before" > Maybe you could change it's name. > Add a bit of artistic flare. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 14/02/2016, at 8:09 am, Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Absolutely nothing wrong with making it look like something from Star Trek! >> Super cool project. Way to go! >> >>> On Feb 13, 2016, at 12:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi All, >>> Here is a picture of Elementary 3000 with first coat of paint. The two rings are for mounting the new ballast tank. I lifted the new ballast tank on with my wife and stood back and said OH! S%^$#@#$# it looks just like the star ship voyager from star trek. Now I think I will have to paint the sub yellow so it does not look like I built a replica star ship. >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, February 13, 2016 11:26 AM, hank pronk wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: xxx xxxxx >>> Sent: February 13, 2016 11:24 AM >>> To: hankpronk at live.ca >>> Subject: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 13 14:41:19 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 19:41:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Elementary 3000 new paint In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1784936582.2995361.1455392479939.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> To be honest, I stop woking on loud projects every day at 3 pm to watch?voyager in my shop of coarse while I piddle around.Hank On Saturday, February 13, 2016 12:26 PM, Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My initial love of psubs came from the realization that I could never have a shuttle craft of my own so Psub is the next best option!?Boldly go indeed!!It is inspirational for sure.?Greg? On Feb 13, 2016, at 1:20 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I like the Star Trek concept too Hank,"boldly go where no man has gone before"Maybe you could change it's name.Add a bit of artistic flare.Alan Sent from my iPad On 14/02/2016, at 8:09 am, Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Absolutely nothing wrong with making it look like something from Star Trek!Super cool project. Way to go! On Feb 13, 2016, at 12:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,?Here is a picture of Elementary 3000 with first coat of paint. ?The two rings are for mounting the new ballast tank. ?I lifted the new ballast tank on with my wife and stood back and said OH! ? ?S%^$#@#$# ? it looks just like the star ship voyager from star trek. ?Now I think I will have to paint the sub ?yellow so it does not look like I built a replica star ship.Hank On Saturday, February 13, 2016 11:26 AM, hank pronk wrote: From: xxx xxxxx Sent: February 13, 2016 11:24 AM To: hankpronk at live.ca Subject: ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 13 14:50:43 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 12:50:43 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Elementary 3000 new paint In-Reply-To: <109999563.2997850.1455388736384.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <109999563.2997850.1455388736384.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7f8028eb-2b13-4524-9cd1-09f7aba16c12@email.android.com> Hank - did you make design drawings prior to fabrication? Or are you making any as-built drawings as you go? If so, I'd be interested to have a look. Sean On February 13, 2016 11:38:56 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi All,?Here is a picture of Elementary 3000 with first coat of paint. >?The two rings are for mounting the new ballast tank. ?I lifted the new >ballast tank on with my wife and stood back and said OH! ? ?S%^$#@#$# ? >it looks just like the star ship voyager from star trek. ?Now I think I >will have to paint the sub ?yellow so it does not look like I built a >replica star ship.Hank > > >On Saturday, February 13, 2016 11:26 AM, hank pronk >wrote: > > > > > >From: xxx xxxxx >Sent: February 13, 2016 11:24 AM >To: hankpronk at live.ca >Subject: ? > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 13 15:49:10 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 20:49:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Elementary 3000 new paint In-Reply-To: <7f8028eb-2b13-4524-9cd1-09f7aba16c12@email.android.com> References: <7f8028eb-2b13-4524-9cd1-09f7aba16c12@email.android.com> Message-ID: <360530846.3019424.1455396550376.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Sean,I don't really have drawings, just sketches really. ?That is where the word 'Amateur " comes into play when I say "Amateur built" ;-)Hank On Saturday, February 13, 2016 12:51 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv6142544670 #yiv6142544670 -- P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}#yiv6142544670 Hank - did you make design drawings prior to fabrication? Or are you making any as-built drawings as you go? If so, I'd be interested to have a look.Sean On February 13, 2016 11:38:56 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,?Here is a picture of Elementary 3000 with first coat of paint. ?The two rings are for mounting the new ballast tank. ?I lifted the new ballast tank on with my wife and stood back and said OH! ? ?S%^$#@#$# ? it looks just like the star ship voyager from star trek. ?Now I think I will have to paint the sub ?yellow so it does not look like I built a replica star ship.Hank On Saturday, February 13, 2016 11:26 AM, hank pronk wrote: From: xxx xxxxx Sent: February 13, 2016 11:24 AM To: hankpronk at live.ca Subject: ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 13 17:06:21 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 15:06:21 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Elementary 3000 new paint In-Reply-To: <360530846.3019424.1455396550376.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <7f8028eb-2b13-4524-9cd1-09f7aba16c12@email.android.com> <360530846.3019424.1455396550376.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Well, more specifically, I was interested in the geometry of your hatch arrangement. Did you end up going with a conical bearing face? What of the reinforcement / load path in that area? Sean On February 13, 2016 1:49:10 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi Sean,I don't really have drawings, just sketches really. ?That is >where the word 'Amateur " comes into play when I say "Amateur built" >;-)Hank > > >On Saturday, February 13, 2016 12:51 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >#yiv6142544670 #yiv6142544670 -- P >{margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}#yiv6142544670 Hank - did you make >design drawings prior to fabrication? Or are you making any as-built >drawings as you go? If so, I'd be interested to have a look.Sean > > >On February 13, 2016 11:38:56 AM MST, hank pronk via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi All,?Here is a picture of Elementary 3000 with first coat of paint. >?The two rings are for mounting the new ballast tank. ?I lifted the new >ballast tank on with my wife and stood back and said OH! ? ?S%^$#@#$# ? >it looks just like the star ship voyager from star trek. ?Now I think I >will have to paint the sub ?yellow so it does not look like I built a >replica star ship.Hank > > >On Saturday, February 13, 2016 11:26 AM, hank pronk >wrote: > > > > > >From: xxx xxxxx >Sent: February 13, 2016 11:24 AM >To: hankpronk at live.ca >Subject: ? > > > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 13 17:17:47 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 22:17:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Elementary 3000 new paint In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1947653660.2988585.1455401867394.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Sean,Yes the hatch and seat are?conical. ?The hatch dome is in line with the hull so the load path is a smooth line. ?Hank On Saturday, February 13, 2016 3:06 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv2854324241 -- P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}#yiv2854324241 Well, more specifically, I was interested in the geometry of your hatch arrangement. Did you end up going with a conical bearing face? What of the reinforcement / load path in that area?Sean On February 13, 2016 1:49:10 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Sean,I don't really have drawings, just sketches really. ?That is where the word 'Amateur " comes into play when I say "Amateur built" ;-)Hank On Saturday, February 13, 2016 12:51 PM, Sean T. Steve! nson viaPersonal_Submersibles wrote: Hank - did you make design drawings prior to fabrication? Or are you making any as-built drawings as you go? If so, I'd be interested to have a look.Sean On February 13, 2016 11:38:56 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,?Here is a picture of Elementary 3000 with first coat of paint. ?The two rings are for mounting the new ballast tank. ?I lifted the new ballast tank on with my wife and stood back and said OH! ? ?S%^$#@#$# ? it looks just like the star ship voyager from star trek. ?Now I think I will have to paint the sub ?yellow so it does not look like I built a replica star ship.Hank On Saturday, February 13, 2016 11:26 AM, hank pronk wrote: From: xxx xxxxx Sent: February 13, 2016 11:24 AM To: hankpronk at live.ca Subject: ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 13 17:24:43 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 22:24:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1309948780.3036114.1455402284070.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Sean,Here is a picture of the hatch and seatHank On Saturday, February 13, 2016 3:23 PM, hank pronk wrote: From: xxx xxxxx Sent: February 13, 2016 3:21 PM To: hankpronk at live.ca Subject: ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0275.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 22175 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 13 20:45:10 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 18:45:10 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Elementary 3000 new paint In-Reply-To: <1947653660.2988585.1455401867394.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1947653660.2988585.1455401867394.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56BFDC26.1030608@telus.net> At what angle is the interface? I ask because as the shell compresses, that shell stress will act through the interface on the hatch, and at some critical angle, will actually act to push the hatch out of the hole - at least to the extent that the hull shell deflects / gets smaller under pressure. This is dependent on both the interface angle, the friction between the two mating surfaces, and the strength of your hatch dogs. Ideally, you want the hatch to lock in place under the stress and provide that continuous load path through the hatch dome, instead of being pushed outboard by the deflecting shell. In the latter case, the deflection will be minor and probably not represent a sealing problem, but it will cause the shell to behave as if it doesn't have that continuous load path through the hatch carrying the full shell stress, necessitating greater reinforcement around the hole. That said, your hatch land may already be sufficient reinforcement - that's why I was hoping for a closer look. Sean On 2016-02-13 15:17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sean, > Yes the hatch and seat are conical. The hatch dome is in line with the > hull so the load path is a smooth line. > Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 13 21:21:10 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 21:21:10 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Elementary 3000 new paint In-Reply-To: <56BFDC26.1030608@telus.net> References: <1947653660.2988585.1455401867394.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <56BFDC26.1030608@telus.net> Message-ID: Very interesting, I had not thought of that. Would the cone not just have to be angled such that its surface were normal to the outer surface of the sphere? Thanks, Alec > On Feb 13, 2016, at 8:45 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > At what angle is the interface? I ask because as the shell compresses, > that shell stress will act through the interface on the hatch, and at > some critical angle, will actually act to push the hatch out of the hole > - at least to the extent that the hull shell deflects / gets smaller > under pressure. This is dependent on both the interface angle, the > friction between the two mating surfaces, and the strength of your hatch > dogs. Ideally, you want the hatch to lock in place under the stress and > provide that continuous load path through the hatch dome, instead of > being pushed outboard by the deflecting shell. In the latter case, the > deflection will be minor and probably not represent a sealing problem, > but it will cause the shell to behave as if it doesn't have that > continuous load path through the hatch carrying the full shell stress, > necessitating greater reinforcement around the hole. That said, your > hatch land may already be sufficient reinforcement - that's why I was > hoping for a closer look. > > Sean > >> On 2016-02-13 15:17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Sean, >> Yes the hatch and seat are conical. The hatch dome is in line with the >> hull so the load path is a smooth line. >> Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 13 22:12:25 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 20:12:25 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Elementary 3000 new paint In-Reply-To: References: <1947653660.2988585.1455401867394.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <56BFDC26.1030608@telus.net> Message-ID: That would be true if there were no friction, and if there were no forces acting normal to the shell surface; however, such an angle would be very slight indeed. In reality, the same pressure that is acting to compress the sphere is also acting to press the hatch into the hole, and there is friction between the mating surfaces, as well as tension from the hatch dogs. As such, the range of interface angles that will still allow the hatch to carry the full shell stress is somewhat greater. It's a bit of a moot point, since such load carrying ability is not relied upon in design, as reinforcement of the shell surrounding the hole is required by the rules, but is a thought exercise for true optimization of the geometry. Sean On February 13, 2016 7:21:10 PM MST, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Very interesting, I had not thought of that. Would the cone not just >have to be angled such that its surface were normal to the outer >surface of the sphere? > >Thanks, > >Alec > >> On Feb 13, 2016, at 8:45 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> At what angle is the interface? I ask because as the shell >compresses, >> that shell stress will act through the interface on the hatch, and at >> some critical angle, will actually act to push the hatch out of the >hole >> - at least to the extent that the hull shell deflects / gets smaller >> under pressure. This is dependent on both the interface angle, the >> friction between the two mating surfaces, and the strength of your >hatch >> dogs. Ideally, you want the hatch to lock in place under the stress >and >> provide that continuous load path through the hatch dome, instead of >> being pushed outboard by the deflecting shell. In the latter case, >the >> deflection will be minor and probably not represent a sealing >problem, >> but it will cause the shell to behave as if it doesn't have that >> continuous load path through the hatch carrying the full shell >stress, >> necessitating greater reinforcement around the hole. That said, your >> hatch land may already be sufficient reinforcement - that's why I was >> hoping for a closer look. >> >> Sean >> >>> On 2016-02-13 15:17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Sean, >>> Yes the hatch and seat are conical. The hatch dome is in line with >the >>> hull so the load path is a smooth line. >>> Hank >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 13 23:11:54 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2016 04:11:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Elementary 3000 new paint In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1391169490.3083661.1455423114871.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Sean,I went with a angle of 15?degrees off vertical on the land, I did that thinking if the angle was closer to vertical there would be more force generated by the hatch pushing into the land. ?This force would help support the reinforcing ring against the sphere. ?I struggled with this because I did not want the angle so close to vertical that the hatch could get stuck in the land. ?I also kept the reinforcing ring high in the sphere so that the bulk of the material was in line with the sphere. ?I did that so there was not unsupported material at the bottom of the ring. ?I considered machining the top of the land ring smooth with the sphere for continuity but opted to keep the extra material for brute strength. ?All of this is based entirely on my gut feeling. ?How is that for an engineering principal. ;-) ??Hank On Saturday, February 13, 2016 8:12 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That would be true if there were no friction, and if there were no forces acting normal to the shell surface; however, such an angle would be very slight indeed. In reality, the same pressure that is acting to compress the sphere is also acting to press the hatch into the hole, and there is friction between the mating surfaces, as well as tension from the hatch dogs. As such, the range of interface angles that will still allow the hatch to carry the full shell stress is somewhat greater. It's a bit of a moot point, since such load carrying ability is not relied upon in design, as reinforcement of the shell surrounding the hole is required by the rules, but is a thought exercise for true optimization of the geometry.Sean On February 13, 2016 7:21:10 PM MST, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Very interesting, I had not thought of that. Would the cone not just have to be angled such that its surface were normal to the outer surface of the sphere? Thanks, Alec On Feb 13, 2016, at 8:45 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: At what angle is the interface? I ask because as the shell compresses, that shell stress will act through the interface on the hatch, and at some critical angle, will actually act to push the hatch out of the hole - at least to the extent that the hull shell deflects / gets smaller under pressure. This is dependent on both the interface angle, the friction between the two mating surfaces, and the strength of your hatch dogs. Ideally, you want the hatch to lock in place un! der thestress and provide that continuous load path through the hatch dome, instead of being pushed outboard by the deflecting shell. In the latter case, the deflection will be minor and probably not represent a sealing problem, but it will cause the shell to behave as if it doesn't have that continuous load path through the hatch carrying the full shell stress, necessitating greater reinforcement around the hole. That said, your hatch land may already be sufficient reinforcement - that's why I was hoping for a closer look. Sean On 2016-02-13 15:17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean, Yes the hatch and seat are conical. The hatch dome is in line with the hull so the load path is a smooth line. Hank Personal_Submer! siblesmailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 13 23:35:45 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 21:35:45 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Elementary 3000 new paint In-Reply-To: <1391169490.3083661.1455423114871.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1391169490.3083661.1455423114871.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: You probably did well by selecting a 15 degree angle, versus 30, 45 or anything more pronounced. It sounds like you'll have the strength you need. I hadn't thought about the hatch getting stuck - perhaps a jack screw or other means of prying would be a good backup plan? Sean On February 13, 2016 9:11:54 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Sean,I went with a angle of 15?degrees off vertical on the land, I did >that thinking if the angle was closer to vertical there would be more >force generated by the hatch pushing into the land. ?This force would >help support the reinforcing ring against the sphere. ?I struggled with >this because I did not want the angle so close to vertical that the >hatch could get stuck in the land. ?I also kept the reinforcing ring >high in the sphere so that the bulk of the material was in line with >the sphere. ?I did that so there was not unsupported material at the >bottom of the ring. ?I considered machining the top of the land ring >smooth with the sphere for continuity but opted to keep the extra >material for brute strength. ?All of this is based entirely on my gut >feeling. ?How is that for an engineering principal. ;-) ??Hank > >On Saturday, February 13, 2016 8:12 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >That would be true if there were no friction, and if there were no >forces acting normal to the shell surface; however, such an angle would >be very slight indeed. In reality, the same pressure that is acting to >compress the sphere is also acting to press the hatch into the hole, >and there is friction between the mating surfaces, as well as tension >from the hatch dogs. As such, the range of interface angles that will >still allow the hatch to carry the full shell stress is somewhat >greater. It's a bit of a moot point, since such load carrying ability >is not relied upon in design, as reinforcement of the shell surrounding >the hole is required by the rules, but is a thought exercise for true >optimization of the geometry.Sean > > >On February 13, 2016 7:21:10 PM MST, Private via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >Very interesting, I had not thought of that. Would the cone not just >have to be angled such that its surface were normal to the outer >surface of the sphere? > >Thanks, > >Alec > > >On Feb 13, 2016, at 8:45 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > At what angle is the interface? I ask because as the shell compresses, > that shell stress will act through the interface on the hatch, and at >some critical angle, will actually act to push the hatch out of the >hole > - at least to the extent that the hull shell deflects / gets smaller > under pressure. This is dependent on both the interface angle, the >friction between the two mating surfaces, and the strength of your >hatch >dogs. Ideally, you want the hatch to lock in place un! der thestress >and > provide that continuous load path through the hatch dome, instead of > being pushed outboard by the deflecting shell. In the latter case, the > deflection will be minor and probably not represent a sealing problem, > but it will cause the shell to behave as if it doesn't have that > continuous load path through the hatch carrying the full shell stress, > necessitating greater reinforcement around the hole. That said, your > hatch land may already be sufficient reinforcement - that's why I was > hoping for a closer look. > > Sean > > > On 2016-02-13 15:17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sean, > Yes the hatch and seat are conical. The hatch dome is in line with the > hull so the load path is a smooth line. > Hank > > > > Personal_Submer! siblesmailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 14 14:45:43 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 08:45:43 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Elementary 3000 new paint In-Reply-To: <56BFDC26.1030608@telus.net> References: <1947653660.2988585.1455401867394.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <56BFDC26.1030608@telus.net> Message-ID: <56c0d96d.8e59620a.3877e.6722@mx.google.com> I thought the idea with conical hatches on spheres was to have the angle of intersection perpendicular to the surface. i.e. the cone apex being the centre of the sphere. Hank, Is the 15 degree angle 30 degrees inclusive, 15 degrees inclusive or 15 degrees from the line from sphere centre to hatch joint?? Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 14 February 2016 2:45 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Elementary 3000 new paint At what angle is the interface? I ask because as the shell compresses, that shell stress will act through the interface on the hatch, and at some critical angle, will actually act to push the hatch out of the hole - at least to the extent that the hull shell deflects / gets smaller under pressure. This is dependent on both the interface angle, the friction between the two mating surfaces, and the strength of your hatch dogs. Ideally, you want the hatch to lock in place under the stress and provide that continuous load path through the hatch dome, instead of being pushed outboard by the deflecting shell. In the latter case, the deflection will be minor and probably not represent a sealing problem, but it will cause the shell to behave as if it doesn't have that continuous load path through the hatch carrying the full shell stress, necessitating greater reinforcement around the hole. That said, your hatch land may already be sufficient reinforcement - that's why I was hoping for a closer look. Sean On 2016-02-13 15:17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sean, > Yes the hatch and seat are conical. The hatch dome is in line with > the hull so the load path is a smooth line. > Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 14 15:11:20 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2016 20:11:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Elementary 3000 new paint In-Reply-To: <56c0d96d.8e59620a.3877e.6722@mx.google.com> References: <56c0d96d.8e59620a.3877e.6722@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1638630155.3213174.1455480680064.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> The 15?degrees is off vertical. ?So imagine a vertical line from top to bottom of the centre of the sphere. Then the angle is 15 degrees off that vertical line. ?The angle could be a pinch more maybe 17 degrees or so. ?I had a hard time reaching it to measure with the ballast tank in my way.Hank On Sunday, February 14, 2016 12:45 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I thought the idea with conical hatches on spheres was to have the angle of intersection perpendicular to the surface.? i.e. the cone apex being the centre of the sphere. Hank, Is the 15 degree angle 30 degrees inclusive, 15 degrees inclusive or 15 degrees from the line from sphere centre to hatch joint??? Hugh? -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 14 February 2016 2:45 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Elementary 3000 new paint At what angle is the interface?? I ask because as the shell compresses, that shell stress will act through the interface on the hatch, and at some critical angle, will actually act to push the hatch out of the hole - at least to the extent that the hull shell deflects / gets smaller under pressure.? This is dependent on both the interface angle, the friction between the two mating surfaces, and the strength of your hatch dogs. Ideally, you want the hatch to lock in place under the stress and provide that continuous load path through the hatch dome, instead of being pushed outboard by the deflecting shell.? In the latter case, the deflection will be minor and probably not represent a sealing problem, but it will cause the shell to behave as if it doesn't have that continuous load path through the hatch carrying the full shell stress, necessitating greater reinforcement around the hole.? That said, your hatch land may already be sufficient reinforcement - that's why I was hoping for a closer look. Sean On 2016-02-13 15:17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sean, > Yes the hatch and seat are conical.? The hatch dome is in line with > the hull so the load path is a smooth line. > Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 14 15:27:16 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2016 20:27:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hatch angle References: <245507308.3208368.1455481636044.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <245507308.3208368.1455481636044.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Scott,I just emailed Karl to ask what his hatch land angle is. ?Just wondering if you know what your Pisces angle is, maybe you can measure it next time your in it.Thanks?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 15 08:41:21 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 07:41:21 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hatch angle Message-ID: I will mesure it for you. I am getting ready to pour concrete for the shop and then fly out of business trips. It has been crazy around here. Haha Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 02/14/2016 2:27 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hatch angle Hi Scott,I just emailed Karl to ask what his hatch land angle is. ?Just wondering if you know what your Pisces angle is, maybe you can measure it next time your in it.Thanks?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 15 08:46:53 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 08:46:53 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators In-Reply-To: <56BA3C05.4000608@psubs.org> References: <20160209075225.C2C5B14E@m0087798.ppops.net> <56BA3A6D.1020903@psubs.org> <56BA3C05.4000608@psubs.org> Message-ID: <56C1D6CD.30701@psubs.org> I'm looking for a clearance recommendation between shaft and bore that provides for easy shaft insertion but very little slop side to side. I promise I am not being sexually provocative here, just trying to get specs for an electrical penetrator. If the bore is 1 inch diameter let's say, would I want to spec out .95? .995? Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 15 10:25:53 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 08:25:53 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators In-Reply-To: <56C1D6CD.30701@psubs.org> References: <20160209075225.C2C5B14E@m0087798.ppops.net> <56BA3A6D.1020903@psubs.org> <56BA3C05.4000608@psubs.org> <56C1D6CD.30701@psubs.org> Message-ID: Jon, do you have a copy of the Machinery's Handbook? Standard fits and tolerances for hole based and shaft based fits in nominal sizes in both inch and metric are covered. I can look it up for you on Tuesday if you like. Regardless, get a copy of that book if you don't have one. Sean On February 15, 2016 6:46:53 AM MST, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >I'm looking for a clearance recommendation between shaft and bore that >provides for easy shaft insertion but very little slop side to side. I > >promise I am not being sexually provocative here, just trying to get >specs for an electrical penetrator. If the bore is 1 inch diameter >let's say, would I want to spec out .95? .995? > >Jon > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 15 13:42:33 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 13:42:33 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators In-Reply-To: References: <20160209075225.C2C5B14E@m0087798.ppops.net> <56BA3A6D.1020903@psubs.org> <56BA3C05.4000608@psubs.org> <56C1D6CD.30701@psubs.org> Message-ID: <56C21C19.3070002@psubs.org> I found a reference to it online. Since these are non-rotating parts it looks like Class 3 or 4 would work, but I suspect the snugness at any given moment of time will depend upon temperature with very close tolerances. Jon On 2/15/2016 10:25 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Jon, do you have a copy of the Machinery's Handbook? Standard fits and > tolerances for hole based and shaft based fits in nominal sizes in > both inch and metric are covered. I can look it up for you on Tuesday > if you like. Regardless, get a copy of that book if you don't have one. > > Sean > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 15 14:14:45 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 12:14:45 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators In-Reply-To: <56C21C19.3070002@psubs.org> References: <20160209075225.C2C5B14E@m0087798.ppops.net> <56BA3A6D.1020903@psubs.org> <56BA3C05.4000608@psubs.org> <56C1D6CD.30701@psubs.org> <56C21C19.3070002@psubs.org> Message-ID: I typically specify fits using the ISO notation including tolerance limits. For a penetrator, you aren't really concerned about location, but your diameters will matter because of the O-ring sealing tolerances. In that case, as a part fit I might specify something like an H9/d9 fit, which you can look up the tolerances for on the basis of the nominal size - certainly this would be sufficient for the tolerance on the shaft diameter, but you might be forced to control more tightly on the hole diameter in order to hold the minimum acceptable O-ring compression in conjunction with the depth of the groove(s) on the shaft. The selected fit class will also dictate the minimum / maximum extrusion gap, which you may have to control. Are you using the Parker O-ring guide as a reference? That should specify the required tolerances. Just select a corresponding hole/shaft fit class that makes it work out. As for temperature variation, I think you will find it is negligible, but you can look up the coefficient of thermal expansion for both materials and use your maximum anticipated temperature range to calculate the delta - keep in mind that both sides will experience approximately similar temperatures in service, so you need only concern yourself with the dimensional change of the completed assembly between temperature extremes. If it turns out to matter, you rein in your tolerance limits accordingly, but I suspect it will be a non-issue. Sean On February 15, 2016 11:42:33 AM MST, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >I found a reference to it online. Since these are non-rotating parts >it >looks like Class 3 or 4 would work, but I suspect the snugness at any >given moment of time will depend upon temperature with very close >tolerances. > >Jon > > >On 2/15/2016 10:25 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles >wrote: >> >> Jon, do you have a copy of the Machinery's Handbook? Standard fits >and >> tolerances for hole based and shaft based fits in nominal sizes in >> both inch and metric are covered. I can look it up for you on Tuesday > >> if you like. Regardless, get a copy of that book if you don't have >one. >> >> Sean >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 15 14:25:01 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 12:25:01 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators In-Reply-To: References: <20160209075225.C2C5B14E@m0087798.ppops.net> <56BA3A6D.1020903@psubs.org> <56BA3C05.4000608@psubs.org> <56C1D6CD.30701@psubs.org> <56C21C19.3070002@psubs.org> Message-ID: <0518ebee-9e51-4a91-b361-d5ceb1ab4fce@email.android.com> Just a comment on the other fit system: I can't imagine that for this application you would need anything tighter than a class 1. Your parts are static, and the O-rings will self-center the part during assembly. Sean On February 15, 2016 12:14:45 PM MST, "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >I typically specify fits using the ISO notation including tolerance >limits. For a penetrator, you aren't really concerned about location, >but your diameters will matter because of the O-ring sealing >tolerances. In that case, as a part fit I might specify something like >an H9/d9 fit, which you can look up the tolerances for on the basis of >the nominal size - certainly this would be sufficient for the tolerance >on the shaft diameter, but you might be forced to control more tightly >on the hole diameter in order to hold the minimum acceptable O-ring >compression in conjunction with the depth of the groove(s) on the >shaft. The selected fit class will also dictate the minimum / maximum >extrusion gap, which you may have to control. Are you using the Parker >O-ring guide as a reference? That should specify the required >tolerances. Just select a corresponding hole/shaft fit class that makes >it work out. As for temperature variation, I think you will find it is >negligible, but you can l! > ook up >the coefficient of thermal expansion for both materials and use your >maximum anticipated temperature range to calculate the delta - keep in >mind that both sides will experience approximately similar temperatures >in service, so you need only concern yourself with the dimensional >change of the completed assembly between temperature extremes. If it >turns out to matter, you rein in your tolerance limits accordingly, but >I suspect it will be a non-issue. > >Sean > > >On February 15, 2016 11:42:33 AM MST, Jon Wallace via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>I found a reference to it online. Since these are non-rotating parts >>it >>looks like Class 3 or 4 would work, but I suspect the snugness at any >>given moment of time will depend upon temperature with very close >>tolerances. >> >>Jon >> >> >>On 2/15/2016 10:25 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles >>wrote: >>> >>> Jon, do you have a copy of the Machinery's Handbook? Standard fits >>and >>> tolerances for hole based and shaft based fits in nominal sizes in >>> both inch and metric are covered. I can look it up for you on >Tuesday >> >>> if you like. Regardless, get a copy of that book if you don't have >>one. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 15 14:34:17 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 12:34:17 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators In-Reply-To: References: <20160209075225.C2C5B14E@m0087798.ppops.net> <56BA3A6D.1020903@psubs.org> <56BA3C05.4000608@psubs.org> <56C1D6CD.30701@psubs.org> <56C21C19.3070002@psubs.org> Message-ID: When fits really matter, as in high precision running machinery or critical transitional fits, a prudent designer will actually specify the part temperature at which the drawing annotations apply. For example, 20?C (normal / typical room temperature), or my preference, 0?C (standard temperature / icewater bath), which allows a machinist to quickly bring all parts to a common reference temperature for measurement. Even if that note is not used for manufacture, it provides a basis for rejection of the part during QC measurements when it is supplied close to a tolerance limit. Sean On February 15, 2016 12:14:45 PM MST, "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >I typically specify fits using the ISO notation including tolerance >limits. For a penetrator, you aren't really concerned about location, >but your diameters will matter because of the O-ring sealing >tolerances. In that case, as a part fit I might specify something like >an H9/d9 fit, which you can look up the tolerances for on the basis of >the nominal size - certainly this would be sufficient for the tolerance >on the shaft diameter, but you might be forced to control more tightly >on the hole diameter in order to hold the minimum acceptable O-ring >compression in conjunction with the depth of the groove(s) on the >shaft. The selected fit class will also dictate the minimum / maximum >extrusion gap, which you may have to control. Are you using the Parker >O-ring guide as a reference? That should specify the required >tolerances. Just select a corresponding hole/shaft fit class that makes >it work out. As for temperature variation, I think you will find it is >negligible, but you can l! > ook up >the coefficient of thermal expansion for both materials and use your >maximum anticipated temperature range to calculate the delta - keep in >mind that both sides will experience approximately similar temperatures >in service, so you need only concern yourself with the dimensional >change of the completed assembly between temperature extremes. If it >turns out to matter, you rein in your tolerance limits accordingly, but >I suspect it will be a non-issue. > >Sean > > >On February 15, 2016 11:42:33 AM MST, Jon Wallace via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>I found a reference to it online. Since these are non-rotating parts >>it >>looks like Class 3 or 4 would work, but I suspect the snugness at any >>given moment of time will depend upon temperature with very close >>tolerances. >> >>Jon >> >> >>On 2/15/2016 10:25 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles >>wrote: >>> >>> Jon, do you have a copy of the Machinery's Handbook? Standard fits >>and >>> tolerances for hole based and shaft based fits in nominal sizes in >>> both inch and metric are covered. I can look it up for you on >Tuesday >> >>> if you like. Regardless, get a copy of that book if you don't have >>one. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 15 14:49:22 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 13:49:22 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?testing_chamber?= Message-ID: <20160215194922.22074.qmail@server268.com> I am planning on building a test chamber which I plan on using a lot for the Pisces sub and would offer to anyone else needing parts tested. It needs to be able to hold testing pressure to 5,000 psi and I envision it to be roughly 2 foot diameter and 3 feet long or similar size. Any suggestions on how to build this? I am trying to do everything I can to keep the cost down on it. Thank you, Scott Waters From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 15 14:46:45 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 19:46:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hatch angle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <266061221.3637603.1455565605557.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Scott,Thank you. ?It is a bit chilly to pour a slab, it must be nice where you are. ?Man that is a big pour!?Hank On Monday, February 15, 2016 6:41 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: I will mesure it for you. I am getting ready to pour concrete for the shop and then fly out of business trips. It has been crazy around here. Haha Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 02/14/2016 2:27 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hatch angle Hi Scott,I just emailed Karl to ask what his hatch land angle is. ?Just wondering if you know what your Pisces angle is, maybe you can measure it next time your in it.Thanks?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 15 14:54:24 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 13:54:24 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hatch angle Message-ID: <9u9cy388km21kmbc2h47dsce.1455566064129@email.android.com> It has been the most mild winter I can ever remember! It is 55 degrees outside and sunny! I went to work with no coat on. Haha-Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 02/15/2016 1:46 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hatch angle Hi Scott,Thank you. ?It is a bit chilly to pour a slab, it must be nice where you are. ?Man that is a big pour!?Hank On Monday, February 15, 2016 6:41 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: I will mesure it for you. I am getting ready to pour concrete for the shop and then fly out of business trips. It has been crazy around here. Haha Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 02/14/2016 2:27 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hatch angle Hi Scott,I just emailed Karl to ask what his hatch land angle is. ?Just wondering if you know what your Pisces angle is, maybe you can measure it next time your in it.Thanks?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 15 15:04:47 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 13:04:47 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's new penetrators In-Reply-To: References: <20160209075225.C2C5B14E@m0087798.ppops.net> <56BA3A6D.1020903@psubs.org> <56BA3C05.4000608@psubs.org> <56C1D6CD.30701@psubs.org> <56C21C19.3070002@psubs.org> Message-ID: I should add that precision metrology opens up a whole can of worms with respect to reportable accuracies. Where I work, we have a calibration lab which is temperature and humidity controlled, and any instruments going in for calibration must remain in the room for 24 hours prior to any calibration measurements being taken, in order to equalize with the room and keep consistent records of performance against the calibration standards. The moment you take, for example, a caliper, out of the cal lab and onto the shop floor, you have already introduced error into your measurement before even seeing your part. Such errors must be accounted for when checking supplied parts for correct adherence to drawing dimensions when tolerances are tight. I have definitely seen significant variations in measurements of a part immediately after delivery (exposed to cold on a transport truck), versus after sitting in the shop for a day or two to warm up. This may not matter for your parts and required tolerances, but you should at least know that it doesn't matter for your application, versus just guessing. It is of paramount importance in design not to specify tolerances which are tighter than actually required to put the part / assembly into service, because this can easily drive manufacturing costs into unreasonable territory quickly. By the same token, specifying tolerances which are too loose can result in unusable parts or assemblies with reliability problems. Often, optimizing tolerances, taking into account tolerance buildup in a large assembly, is the most time consuming part of design. Sean On February 15, 2016 12:34:17 PM MST, "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >When fits really matter, as in high precision running machinery or >critical transitional fits, a prudent designer will actually specify >the part temperature at which the drawing annotations apply. For >example, 20?C (normal / typical room temperature), or my preference, >0?C (standard temperature / icewater bath), which allows a machinist to >quickly bring all parts to a common reference temperature for >measurement. Even if that note is not used for manufacture, it >provides a basis for rejection of the part during QC measurements when >it is supplied close to a tolerance limit. > >Sean > > >On February 15, 2016 12:14:45 PM MST, "Sean T. Stevenson via >Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >>I typically specify fits using the ISO notation including tolerance >>limits. For a penetrator, you aren't really concerned about location, >>but your diameters will matter because of the O-ring sealing >>tolerances. In that case, as a part fit I might specify something like >>an H9/d9 fit, which you can look up the tolerances for on the basis of >>the nominal size - certainly this would be sufficient for the >tolerance >>on the shaft diameter, but you might be forced to control more tightly >>on the hole diameter in order to hold the minimum acceptable O-ring >>compression in conjunction with the depth of the groove(s) on the >>shaft. The selected fit class will also dictate the minimum / maximum >>extrusion gap, which you may have to control. Are you using the Parker >>O-ring guide as a reference? That should specify the required >>tolerances. Just select a corresponding hole/shaft fit class that >makes >>it work out. As for temperature variation, I think you will find it is >>negligible, but you can l! >> ook up >>the coefficient of thermal expansion for both materials and use your >>maximum anticipated temperature range to calculate the delta - keep in >>mind that both sides will experience approximately similar >temperatures >>in service, so you need only concern yourself with the dimensional >>change of the completed assembly between temperature extremes. If it >>turns out to matter, you rein in your tolerance limits accordingly, >but >>I suspect it will be a non-issue. >> >>Sean >> >> >>On February 15, 2016 11:42:33 AM MST, Jon Wallace via >>Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>I found a reference to it online. Since these are non-rotating parts >>>it >>>looks like Class 3 or 4 would work, but I suspect the snugness at any > >>>given moment of time will depend upon temperature with very close >>>tolerances. >>> >>>Jon >>> >>> >>>On 2/15/2016 10:25 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles >>>wrote: >>>> >>>> Jon, do you have a copy of the Machinery's Handbook? Standard fits >>>and >>>> tolerances for hole based and shaft based fits in nominal sizes in >>>> both inch and metric are covered. I can look it up for you on >>Tuesday >>> >>>> if you like. Regardless, get a copy of that book if you don't have >>>one. >>>> >>>> Sean >>>> >>>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 15 16:08:43 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 21:08:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] testing chamber In-Reply-To: <20160215194922.22074.qmail@server268.com> References: <20160215194922.22074.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: <1795146451.4646127.1455570523461.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Scott,I just had one built for me by a hydraulics firm specializing in hydraulicsrepairs & rebuilds. It was tested to 3000psi & is 6" ID & 18" long.It has a 1/2" bsp hole in the lid /cap & 1 down at the bottom in the side.I did specify 2 in the side but it works fine with 1.Because I have a maximum of 3000psi I was able to go to the divestore & get a hp whip with a purge button in it. The purge button is goodfor releasing the pressure prior to unbolting the cap. I found the cap was a?tight fit inside the cylinder & you needed to unbolt the 12 bolts 1/2 an inch?& put a bit of pressure in to pop the cap out a bit.The 1/2" bsp hole in the cap is so I can thread electrical penetrators etcin to it & test them.It was suggested that I buy a plastic insert that fits closely inside the cylinderso I can fill this with water & avoid rusting out the inside.At 3000psi components & gauges were easy to find, but you may have troubleat 5000psi.Cheers Alan From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 8:49 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] testing chamber I am planning on building a test chamber which I plan on using a lot for the Pisces sub and would offer to anyone else needing parts tested. It needs to be able to hold testing pressure to 5,000 psi and I envision it to be roughly 2 foot diameter and 3 feet long or similar size. Any suggestions on how to build this? I am trying to do everything I can to keep the cost down on it. Thank you, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 15 17:05:40 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 16:05:40 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?testing_chamber?= In-Reply-To: <1795146451.4646127.1455570523461.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160215194922.22074.qmail@server268.com> <1795146451.4646127.1455570523461.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20160215220540.17373.qmail@server268.com> Alan, Do you have pictures of it? Thank you, Scott Waters > -------Original Message------- > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] testing chamber > Sent: Feb 15 '16 15:13 > > Scott, > I just had one built for me by a hydraulics firm specializing in > hydraulics > repairs & rebuilds. It was tested to 3000psi & is 6" ID & 18" long. > It has a 1/2" bsp hole in the lid /cap & 1 down at the bottom in the > side. > I did specify 2 in the side but it works fine with 1. > Because I have a maximum of 3000psi I was able to go to the dive > store & get a hp whip with a purge button in it. The purge button is > good > for releasing the pressure prior to unbolting the cap. I found the cap > was a > tight fit inside the cylinder & you needed to unbolt the 12 bolts 1/2 > an inch > & put a bit of pressure in to pop the cap out a bit. > The 1/2" bsp hole in the cap is so I can thread electrical penetrators > etc > in to it & test them. > It was suggested that I buy a plastic insert that fits closely inside > the cylinder > so I can fill this with water & avoid rusting out the inside. > At 3000psi components & gauges were easy to find, but you may have > trouble > at 5000psi. > Cheers Alan > > ------------------------- > FROM: via Personal_Submersibles > TO: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > SENT: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 8:49 AM > SUBJECT: [PSUBS-MAILIST] testing chamber > > I am planning on building a test chamber which I plan on using a lot > for the Pisces sub and would offer to anyone else needing parts > tested. It needs to be able to hold testing pressure to 5,000 psi and > I envision it to be roughly 2 foot diameter and 3 feet long or similar > size. Any suggestions on how to build this? I am trying to do > everything I can to keep the cost down on it. > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > ------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 15 17:51:36 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 22:51:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] testing chamber In-Reply-To: <20160215220540.17373.qmail@server268.com> References: <20160215220540.17373.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: <1658855344.3701842.1455576696104.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Scott,A 2 foot dia chamber for 5,000 psi is a very big deal. ?If you can get that dia down to 12 inches it would help you greatly. ?Hank On Monday, February 15, 2016 3:06 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, Do you have pictures of it? Thank you, Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] testing chamber >? Sent: Feb 15 '16 15:13 >? >? Scott, >? I just had one built for me by a hydraulics firm specializing in >? hydraulics >? repairs & rebuilds. It was tested to 3000psi & is 6" ID & 18" long. >? It has a 1/2" bsp hole in the lid /cap & 1 down at the bottom in the >? side. >? I did specify 2 in the side but it works fine with 1. >? Because I have a maximum of 3000psi I was able to go to the dive >? store & get a hp whip with a purge button in it. The purge button is >? good >? for releasing the pressure prior to unbolting the cap. I found the cap >? was a >? tight fit inside the cylinder & you needed to unbolt the 12 bolts 1/2 >? an inch >? & put a bit of pressure in to pop the cap out a bit. >? The 1/2" bsp hole in the cap is so I can thread electrical penetrators >? etc >? in to it & test them. >? It was suggested that I buy a plastic insert that fits closely inside >? the cylinder >? so I can fill this with water & avoid rusting out the inside. >? At 3000psi components & gauges were easy to find, but you may have >? trouble >? at 5000psi. >? Cheers Alan >? >? ------------------------- >? FROM: via Personal_Submersibles >? TO: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >? SENT: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 8:49 AM >? SUBJECT: [PSUBS-MAILIST] testing chamber >? >? I am planning on building a test chamber which I plan on using a lot >? for the Pisces sub and would offer to anyone else needing parts >? tested. It needs to be able to hold testing pressure to 5,000 psi and >? I envision it to be roughly 2 foot diameter and 3 feet long or similar >? size. Any suggestions on how to build this? I am trying to do >? everything I can to keep the cost down on it. >? >? Thank you, >? Scott Waters >? _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >? ------------------------- >? _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 15 18:02:07 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 12:02:07 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Tester Message-ID: <72D8E267-2DD5-4F92-9674-FC5CC14AB216@yahoo.com> I thought you'd ask for a picture. Just as well I opened it up for a photo as I was getting a bit of rust. I would use long enough bolts so that you can pop the top out far enough but still stop the top from going through the roof. mine are a tad short. Alan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2279.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 115836 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPad From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 15 18:24:30 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 16:24:30 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Tester Message-ID: <20160215162430.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e19f2eb0d1.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 15 18:44:20 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 23:44:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Tester In-Reply-To: <20160215162430.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e19f2eb0d1.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20160215162430.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e19f2eb0d1.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <1256382094.3739927.1455579860763.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Scott,Measure your biggest part that must be tested and let me know the size. ?I might be able to find?something here from the coal mine. ?I need a?major chamber also. ?No point in both of us spending money on the same thing.Hank On Monday, February 15, 2016 4:24 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Very cool. I'm sure I can shrink it down a?bit. I know matter how big I make it that it will never be big enough. haha. I guess the other thing is I can always try to get all the parts that need tested made up before I seen the sub to testing in San Antonio and test everything at one time. That would help me avoid having to build a chamber.?Thank you,Scott Waters? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Tester From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: Mon, February 15, 2016 5:02 pm To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion I thought you'd ask for a picture. Just as well I opened it up for a photo as I was getting a bit of rust. I would use long enough bolts so that you can pop the top out far enough but still stop the top from going through the roof. mine are a tad short. Alan Sent from my iPad_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 15 18:48:54 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 23:48:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Tester In-Reply-To: <20160215162430.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e19f2eb0d1.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20160215162430.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e19f2eb0d1.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <1677506472.4697142.1455580134963.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Scott,this will do me for testing lights & penetrators & I am putting mymotor controllers outside the hull in housings, so it will be bigenough for them. Other than that I can't think of anything much else.Hang on, yes, ?polystyrene cup shrinking.? ?I am putting my escs (electronic speed controllers) outside the?hull because I have smoked a couple already with my testing& have seen images of them on fire.?Cheers Alan From: via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Tester Very cool. I'm sure I can shrink it down a?bit. I know matter how big I make it that it will never be big enough. haha. I guess the other thing is I can always try to get all the parts that need tested made up before I seen the sub to testing in San Antonio and test everything at one time. That would help me avoid having to build a chamber.?Thank you,Scott Waters? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Tester From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: Mon, February 15, 2016 5:02 pm To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion I thought you'd ask for a picture. Just as well I opened it up for a photo as I was getting a bit of rust. I would use long enough bolts so that you can pop the top out far enough but still stop the top from going through the roof. mine are a tad short. Alan Sent from my iPad_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 15 18:54:17 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 23:54:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Tester In-Reply-To: <20160215162430.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e19f2eb0d1.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20160215162430.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e19f2eb0d1.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <1277001698.3785850.1455580457858.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Scott,What is the test pressure capacity in San Antonio.Hank On Monday, February 15, 2016 4:24 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Very cool. I'm sure I can shrink it down a?bit. I know matter how big I make it that it will never be big enough. haha. I guess the other thing is I can always try to get all the parts that need tested made up before I seen the sub to testing in San Antonio and test everything at one time. That would help me avoid having to build a chamber.?Thank you,Scott Waters? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Tester From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: Mon, February 15, 2016 5:02 pm To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion I thought you'd ask for a picture. Just as well I opened it up for a photo as I was getting a bit of rust. I would use long enough bolts so that you can pop the top out far enough but still stop the top from going through the roof. mine are a tad short. Alan Sent from my iPad_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 15 18:59:14 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 16:59:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Tester Message-ID: <20160215165914.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c2c4ded7b1.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 15 19:01:32 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 17:01:32 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Tester Message-ID: <20160215170132.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.8fc517f677.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 15 19:06:45 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 00:06:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Tester In-Reply-To: <20160215170132.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.8fc517f677.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20160215170132.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.8fc517f677.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <604507034.3661642.1455581205321.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> What is the max pressure they can do.Hank On Monday, February 15, 2016 5:01 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: San Antonio is?90"?and a vertical chamber. Testing is $5,000 per day which includes crane operation.?Thank you,Scott Waters?? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Tester From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: Mon, February 15, 2016 5:54 pm To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Scott,What is the test pressure capacity in San Antonio.Hank On Monday, February 15, 2016 4:24 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Very cool. I'm sure I can shrink it down a?bit. I know matter how big I make it that it will never be big enough. haha. I guess the other thing is I can always try to get all the parts that need tested made up before I seen the sub to testing in San Antonio and test everything at one time. That would help me avoid having to build a chamber.?Thank you,Scott Waters? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Tester From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: Mon, February 15, 2016 5:02 pm To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion I thought you'd ask for a picture. Just as well I opened it up for a photo as I was getting a bit of rust. I would use long enough bolts so that you can pop the top out far enough but still stop the top from going through the roof. mine are a tad short. Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 15 19:25:51 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 18:25:51 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Tester Message-ID: <91qn1x15a2961325xe0g3p92.1455582180977@email.android.com> Not sure honestly. I know alot more than what I required.?Thankyou,Scott Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 02/15/2016 6:06 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Tester What is the max pressure they can do.Hank On Monday, February 15, 2016 5:01 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: San Antonio is?90"?and a vertical chamber. Testing is $5,000 per day which includes crane operation. ? Thank you, Scott Waters? ? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Tester From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: Mon, February 15, 2016 5:54 pm To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Scott, What is the test pressure capacity in San Antonio. Hank On Monday, February 15, 2016 4:24 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Very cool. I'm sure I can shrink it down a?bit. I know matter how big I make it that it will never be big enough. haha. I guess the other thing is I can always try to get all the parts that need tested made up before I seen the sub to testing in San Antonio and test everything at one time. That would help me avoid having to build a chamber. ? Thank you, Scott Waters ? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Tester From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: Mon, February 15, 2016 5:02 pm To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion I thought you'd ask for a picture. Just as well I opened it up for a photo as I was getting a bit of rust. I would use long enough bolts so that you can pop the top out far enough but still stop the top from going through the roof. mine are a tad short. Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 15 22:38:42 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 19:38:42 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hatch angle Message-ID: <20160215193842.C2C866A1@m0086238.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 18 14:23:27 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 19:23:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: ROV In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1795709418.3612916.1455823407973.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> My son just came across some pictures from my ROV past. ?This is my first ROV, track drive and I can't remember how deep it went. ?This is from about 1985Hank On Thursday, February 18, 2016 12:20 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2016-02-18 at 12.19 PM.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 36099 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 18 14:34:15 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 19:34:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: ROV In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <938803602.5075955.1455824055274.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> This one came a bit later, it was built for Haz Mat purposes, wish I was still that skinny LOLHank On Thursday, February 18, 2016 12:32 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: img019.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 38544 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 18 16:05:53 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 21:05:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 References: <655980873.5122686.1455829553049.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <655980873.5122686.1455829553049.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Scott,I am looking for some HY80 ?I just want some to try welding it. ?Been reading up on it and I am not sure what the big deal is. ?I know you researched it, and recall you saying your found a supplier.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 18 16:30:11 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 21:30:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: ROV In-Reply-To: <938803602.5075955.1455824055274.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <938803602.5075955.1455824055274.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1110483263.6554536.1455831012035.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> ?Great photos Hank, you must have gained a lot of experience over that time,no wonder you can throw stuff together pretty quickly.Alan? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 8:34 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: ROV This one came a bit later, it was built for Haz Mat purposes, wish I was still that skinny LOLHank On Thursday, February 18, 2016 12:32 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 18 18:31:44 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 23:31:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY steel References: <636283739.5235129.1455838304150.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <636283739.5235129.1455838304150.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Sean,Just heard from EE and they might be able to form HY 80 or HY100 ?steel depending on thickness. ? Can you tell me how thick HY80 and Hy100 need to be to compare to 2 inch thick 516-70 ?in a 48ID sphere.Thanks'Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 19 13:02:14 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 11:02:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY steel In-Reply-To: <636283739.5235129.1455838304150.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <636283739.5235129.1455838304150.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <636283739.5235129.1455838304150.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <970e9e69-9314-4a7b-aabe-d63bb91715d9@email.android.com> Hank, do you have access to a 64 bit Windows PC? The shell calculator I wrote for such machines is freely available on the PSubs site. Otherwise, if I understand you correctly, you want to find the maximum allowable working depth of a 48" ID, 2" thick sphere of A516 gr 70 steel, and then, working off the same ID, find the thicknesses of HY80 and HY100 respectively which give you that same depth? Sean On February 18, 2016 4:31:44 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi Sean,Just heard from EE and they might be able to form HY 80 or >HY100 ?steel depending on thickness. ? Can you tell me how thick HY80 >and Hy100 need to be to compare to 2 inch thick 516-70 ?in a 48ID >sphere.Thanks'Hank > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 19 13:15:14 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 18:15:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY steel In-Reply-To: <970e9e69-9314-4a7b-aabe-d63bb91715d9@email.android.com> References: <970e9e69-9314-4a7b-aabe-d63bb91715d9@email.android.com> Message-ID: <674250346.5523420.1455905714177.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Sean,Yes that is correct, ?I can not use your new program. ?I use the last one you gave us and it is a dream.Hank On Friday, February 19, 2016 11:02 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, do you have access to a 64 bit Windows PC? The shell calculator I wrote for such machines is freely available on the PSubs site.Otherwise, if I understand you correctly, you want to find the maximum allowable working depth of a 48" ID, 2" thick sphere of A516 gr 70 steel, and then, working off the same ID, find the thicknesses of HY80 and HY100 respectively which give you that same depth?Sean On February 18, 2016 4:31:44 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Sean,Just heard from EE and they might be able to form HY 80 or HY100 ?steel depending on thickness. ? Can you tell me how thick HY80 and Hy100 need to be to compare to 2 inch thick 516-70 ?in a 48ID sphere.Thanks'Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 19 15:17:42 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 14:17:42 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 Message-ID: <1rug67aklvuug8f3s0x4gh6h.1455913062433@email.android.com> That's right Hank. This would be a much better conversation on the phone rather than trying to cram it all into a e-mail that would take me a hour or two to type. I am on business trips until March 3, but may be able to arange a time to talk to you.Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 02/18/2016 3:05 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 Hi Scott,I am looking for some HY80 ?I just want some to try welding it. ?Been reading up on it and I am not sure what the big deal is. ?I know you researched it, and recall you saying your found a supplier.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 19 16:53:44 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 21:53:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 In-Reply-To: <1rug67aklvuug8f3s0x4gh6h.1455913062433@email.android.com> References: <1rug67aklvuug8f3s0x4gh6h.1455913062433@email.android.com> Message-ID: <2053717398.72330.1455918824720.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Scott,I can wait till you get back in March, I look forward to hearing what you found. ?In the mean time I have also sourced both HY 80 and HY 100 and it is not nearly as expensive as I expected.Hank On Friday, February 19, 2016 1:18 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That's right Hank. This would be a much better conversation on the phone rather than trying to cram it all into a e-mail that would take me a hour or two to type. I am on business trips until March 3, but may be able to arange a time to talk to you.Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 02/18/2016 3:05 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 Hi Scott,I am looking for some HY80 ?I just want some to try welding it. ?Been reading up on it and I am not sure what the big deal is. ?I know you researched it, and recall you saying your found a supplier.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 19 16:57:10 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 14:57:10 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY steel In-Reply-To: <674250346.5523420.1455905714177.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <970e9e69-9314-4a7b-aabe-d63bb91715d9@email.android.com> <674250346.5523420.1455905714177.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56C78FB6.4040806@telus.net> On 2016-02-19 11:15, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Sean, > Yes that is correct, I can not use your new program. I use the last > one you gave us and it is a dream. > Hank What isn't working for you? Perhaps it's something I can fix? Anyway, here is the A516 Gr.70 sphere, showing a calculated working depth of 6437.14 fsw. Notably, this one is negatively buoyant: ...and the corresponding sphere of HY-80, showing the calculated hull thickness of just less than an inch. About 350 lbs of payload with this one: ...and finally the HY-100 sphere, showing a calculated thickness of about 7/8 inch, and 620 lbs of payload capacity available: Sean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 103359 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 104197 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 3.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 103988 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 19 17:14:57 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 15:14:57 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY steel In-Reply-To: <56C78FB6.4040806@telus.net> References: <970e9e69-9314-4a7b-aabe-d63bb91715d9@email.android.com> <674250346.5523420.1455905714177.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <56C78FB6.4040806@telus.net> Message-ID: <56C793E1.8060105@telus.net> Disregard - it seems I've discovered a fairly critical bug in the calculator. Stay tuned for an update. Sean From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 19 17:16:36 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 22:16:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY steel In-Reply-To: <56C793E1.8060105@telus.net> References: <56C793E1.8060105@telus.net> Message-ID: <417379502.70865.1455920196041.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Whew! ?I was just comparing to the first?program it it don't jive ;-)Hank On Friday, February 19, 2016 3:15 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Disregard - it seems I've discovered a fairly critical bug in the calculator.? Stay tuned for an update. Sean _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 19 17:58:37 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 22:58:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY steel References: <1201361530.6909591.1455922717269.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1201361530.6909591.1455922717269.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Does the old program run on 32 bit windows? Pete -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 2/19/16, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY steel To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Friday, February 19, 2016, 4:16 PM Whew! ?I was just comparing to the first?program it it don't jive ;-)Hank On Friday, February 19, 2016 3:15 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Disregard - it seems I've discovered a fairly critical bug in the calculator.? Stay tuned for an update. Sean _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 19 18:07:07 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 16:07:07 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY steel In-Reply-To: <417379502.70865.1455920196041.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <56C793E1.8060105@telus.net> <417379502.70865.1455920196041.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56C7A01B.9070201@telus.net> On 2016-02-19 15:16, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Whew! I was just comparing to the first program it it don't jive ;-) > Hank Okay, so I found the error in the calculated limit pressures (a missing division by 2 in one of the calculations), so now the MAWP correctly corresponds to the pressure at the working depth. Thankfully, that number was not affected. How does this compare to your previous numbers? The A516 Gr.70: The HY-80: and the HY-100: Sean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 104744 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 105598 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 3.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 105316 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 19 18:12:40 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 16:12:40 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS SubDesigner 0.92b Message-ID: <56C7A168.4060404@telus.net> Due to a critical error in the previously released version of this calculator, please find attached an update to STS SubDesigner, version 0.92b. Users of this software MUST replace their prior versions with this update to ensure correct calculations. The Run-time engine (required to run this software and available via a link on the PSubs site) does not need to be updated for users of the previous version (0.92a). Sorry for the inconvenience. Sean -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: STS_SubDesigner_092b.zip Type: application/zip Size: 437936 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 19 18:22:11 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 16:22:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY steel In-Reply-To: <1201361530.6909591.1455922717269.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1201361530.6909591.1455922717269.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1201361530.6909591.1455922717269.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56C7A3A3.3000901@telus.net> The reason I switched to a 64-bit compiler was to be able to address all available memory on a user's machine (16 TB limit, as opposed to 4 GB for 32-bit), as well as to implement loop parallelism in some parts of the code. This is necessary for the cylindrical shell optimizer (not yet released) to not take an unreasonable amount of time to arrive at a solution. While I could use a 32-bit compiler for just the head calculator component (the released software), I was trying to plan ahead to make everything work together. Plus, most people are running 64-bit operating systems these days anyway. If there is interest, I can release a 32-bit version of the head calculator. Sean From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 19 19:32:07 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 00:32:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY steel In-Reply-To: <56C7A3A3.3000901@telus.net> References: <56C7A3A3.3000901@telus.net> Message-ID: <600744982.102691.1455928327445.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Sean,Thank you for the figures, very helpful!Hank On Friday, February 19, 2016 4:22 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: The reason I switched to a 64-bit compiler was to be able to address all available memory on a user's machine (16 TB limit, as opposed to 4 GB for 32-bit), as well as to implement loop parallelism in some parts of the code.? This is necessary for the cylindrical shell optimizer (not yet released) to not take an unreasonable amount of time to arrive at a solution.? While I could use a 32-bit compiler for just the head calculator component (the released software), I was trying to plan ahead to make everything work together.? Plus, most people are running 64-bit operating systems these days anyway.? If there is interest, I can release a 32-bit version of the head calculator. Sean _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 24 14:12:45 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 14:12:45 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing Message-ID: <56CE00AD.2040601@psubs.org> I think this is somewhat subjective but what is general consensus on maximum cabin pressure swing (higher/lower) relative to hatch closing at the start of a dive before setting off alarms? My thought is that an alarm should sound well before any point of emergency. I'm considering sounding a warning at 2psi +/- and an alarm at 4psi +/- but I'm not sure if this is too strict. Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 24 14:42:49 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 14:42:49 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing In-Reply-To: <56CE00AD.2040601@psubs.org> References: <56CE00AD.2040601@psubs.org> Message-ID: That is an interesting question, but I come in way lower than the values you're suggesting. On Snoopy I set the red-line on the cabin pressure gauge at 1/2 psi. The force on the hatch at the surface, with an overpressure of 1/2 psi, would be close to 400 lbs. I'm not sure what pressure the hatch would blow at, and of course I did have an over-pressure valve, but with the big acrylic dome held down by some UHMW tabs I would not be comfortable with any more than that. For what it's worth (and for Doug's peace of mind!) I did in fact take it to 1/2 psi without it blowing so know its good at least to that threshold. My limit might sound like the cabin pressure has to be awfully closely dialed in, but in practice it's not something I found had any tendency toward wild swings, and could be easily kept under that threshold with a tweak of the O2 feed every 20 minutes or so. Best, Alec On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 2:12 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I think this is somewhat subjective but what is general consensus on > maximum cabin pressure swing (higher/lower) relative to hatch closing at > the start of a dive before setting off alarms? My thought is that an alarm > should sound well before any point of emergency. I'm considering sounding > a warning at 2psi +/- and an alarm at 4psi +/- but I'm not sure if this is > too strict. > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 24 14:47:20 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 12:47:20 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing In-Reply-To: <56CE00AD.2040601@psubs.org> References: <56CE00AD.2040601@psubs.org> Message-ID: The rules pay particular attention to design so as to avoid an increase of cabin pressure of one atmosphere in the event of a piping or pressure vessel failure which releases gas into the cabin. For that reason, I would be inclined to design windows and hatches to withstand that amount of internal pressure when secured. As for what pressure to alarm at, I would look at dive tables as a guide - i.e. what is the maximum permissible depth that still provides for an unlimited NDL time? This is, varyingly, 15 - 20 fsw, which would be the absolute maximum, but of course, you want to alarm before that. The other thing you could look at is the typical range of atmospheric pressures prior to closing your hatch. One standard atmosphere is defined at 101.325 kPa, which is the value I would use for automatic control, but if the atmosphere only can vary a few millibars, I might set alarms at the lowest delta that can't possibly be real. As Hank has previously mentioned, a warm sub dropped into cold water can show a pressure drop from the temperature change alone, which you don't necessarily want to alarm on, so you need to set them wide enough to behave. Better yet, measure and consciously monitor continuously. Sean On February 24, 2016 12:12:45 PM MST, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >I think this is somewhat subjective but what is general consensus on >maximum cabin pressure swing (higher/lower) relative to hatch closing >at >the start of a dive before setting off alarms? My thought is that an >alarm should sound well before any point of emergency. I'm considering > >sounding a warning at 2psi +/- and an alarm at 4psi +/- but I'm not >sure if this is too strict. > >Jon >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 24 14:59:32 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 20:59:32 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing In-Reply-To: <56CE00AD.2040601@psubs.org> References: <56CE00AD.2040601@psubs.org> Message-ID: A alarm would be a good safety measure. My O2 analyzer has hi/lo alarms but for the pressure I have just a barometer and altimeter. My overpressure valve operates at abt. 30 mbar or a 1/2 Psi Regards, Emile -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 24 februari 2016 20:13 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing I think this is somewhat subjective but what is general consensus on maximum cabin pressure swing (higher/lower) relative to hatch closing at the start of a dive before setting off alarms? My thought is that an alarm should sound well before any point of emergency. I'm considering sounding a warning at 2psi +/- and an alarm at 4psi +/- but I'm not sure if this is too strict. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 24 15:37:04 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 14:37:04 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?HY80?= In-Reply-To: <2053717398.72330.1455918824720.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1rug67aklvuug8f3s0x4gh6h.1455913062433@email.android.com> <2053717398.72330.1455918824720.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20160224203704.28392.qmail@server268.com> Hank, Who have you found as a source? I searched forever and could only find one. I have to dig to remember who it was. haha Thank you, Scott Waters > -------Original Message------- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 > Sent: Feb 19 '16 15:58 > > Hi Scott, > I can wait till you get back in March, I look forward to hearing what > you found. In the mean time I have also sourced both HY 80 and HY 100 > and it is not nearly as expensive as I expected. > Hank > > On Friday, February 19, 2016 1:18 PM, Scott Waters via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > That's right Hank. This would be a much better conversation on the > phone rather than trying to cram it all into a e-mail that would take > me a hour or two to type. I am on business trips until March 3, but > may be able to arange a time to talk to you. > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > Date: 02/18/2016 3:05 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 > > Hi Scott, > I am looking for some HY80 I just want some to try welding it. Been > reading up on it and I am not sure what the big deal is. I know you > researched it, and recall you saying your found a supplier. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 24 16:57:47 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?UTF-8?Q?Lasse_Schmidt_Westr=C3=A9n?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 22:57:47 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing In-Reply-To: <56CE00AD.2040601@psubs.org> References: <56CE00AD.2040601@psubs.org> Message-ID: Is it possible to correlate the alarm to temperature change in cabin from start of dive? Pressure change might well be over 4 psi if it is hot outside and the water is cold. Cheers Lasse 2016-02-24 20:12 GMT+01:00 Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > > I think this is somewhat subjective but what is general consensus on > maximum cabin pressure swing (higher/lower) relative to hatch closing at > the start of a dive before setting off alarms? My thought is that an alarm > should sound well before any point of emergency. I'm considering sounding > a warning at 2psi +/- and an alarm at 4psi +/- but I'm not sure if this is > too strict. > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Lasse Schmidt Westr?n Upplevelsepresent.se 070-28 32 660 Upplevelser, events och kryssningar. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 24 17:31:30 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 22:31:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <688578772.816029.1456353090025.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> When I dive Gamma, I find I have a slight negative pressure for most of the dive as the air shrinks from the cold. ?The temperature swing is huge from surface to 100 feet. ? As a rule when I dive for any length of time I balance the sub out to Zero on the altimeter by either turning on the compressor or giving a shot of air before I start to surface. ?It is pretty easy to keep the sub within 100 feet from set point on the altimeter, and that is my comfort level.Hank On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 2:58 PM, Lasse Schmidt Westr?n via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Is it possible to correlate the alarm to temperature change in cabin from start of dive? Pressure change might well be over 4 psi if it is hot outside and the water is cold. Cheers Lasse 2016-02-24 20:12 GMT+01:00 Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles : I think this is somewhat subjective but what is general consensus on maximum cabin pressure swing (higher/lower) relative to hatch closing at the start of a dive before setting off alarms?? My thought is that an alarm should sound well before any point of emergency.? I'm considering sounding a warning at 2psi +/- and an alarm at 4psi +/-? but I'm not sure if this is too strict. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Lasse Schmidt Westr?n Upplevelsepresent.se 070-28 32 660 Upplevelser, events och kryssningar. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 24 17:34:03 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 22:34:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 In-Reply-To: <20160224203704.28392.qmail@server268.com> References: <20160224203704.28392.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: <160663151.2053226.1456353243350.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Scott,The place is called American Alloy Steel, it was the first place I inquired at LOL. ?They had both HY 100 and HY 80Hank On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 1:37 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Who have you found as a source? I searched forever and could only find one. I have to dig to remember who it was. haha Thank you, Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 >? Sent: Feb 19 '16 15:58 >? >? Hi Scott, >? I can wait till you get back in March, I look forward to hearing what >? you found. In the mean time I have also sourced both HY 80 and HY 100 >? and it is not nearly as expensive as I expected. >? Hank >? >? On Friday, February 19, 2016 1:18 PM, Scott Waters via >? Personal_Submersibles wrote: >? >? That's right Hank. This would be a much better conversation on the >? phone rather than trying to cram it all into a e-mail that would take >? me a hour or two to type. I am on business trips until March 3, but >? may be able to arange a time to talk to you. >? Thank you, >? Scott Waters >? >? Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >? >? -------- Original message -------- >? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >? >? Date: 02/18/2016 3:05 PM (GMT-06:00) >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? >? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 >? >? Hi Scott, >? I am looking for some HY80 I just want some to try welding it. Been >? reading up on it and I am not sure what the big deal is. I know you >? researched it, and recall you saying your found a supplier. >? Hank >? >? _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 24 17:45:11 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 22:45:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing In-Reply-To: <688578772.816029.1456353090025.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <688578772.816029.1456353090025.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <853668248.9705010.1456353911293.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Nuytco create a vacuum on the sub to set the o-ring on the hatch,so they would be starting off with negative pressure.I wonder if they add air after this? Their ballast add system?is reliant?on cabin pressure so this issue must be important.? ?I have heard of "expensive" subs using an external air conditioningsystem prior to diving & that would counter the temperature differences.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing When I dive Gamma, I find I have a slight negative pressure for most of the dive as the air shrinks from the cold. ?The temperature swing is huge from surface to 100 feet. ? As a rule when I dive for any length of time I balance the sub out to Zero on the altimeter by either turning on the compressor or giving a shot of air before I start to surface. ?It is pretty easy to keep the sub within 100 feet from set point on the altimeter, and that is my comfort level.Hank On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 2:58 PM, Lasse Schmidt Westr?n via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Is it possible to correlate the alarm to temperature change in cabin from start of dive? Pressure change might well be over 4 psi if it is hot outside and the water is cold. Cheers Lasse 2016-02-24 20:12 GMT+01:00 Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles : I think this is somewhat subjective but what is general consensus on maximum cabin pressure swing (higher/lower) relative to hatch closing at the start of a dive before setting off alarms?? My thought is that an alarm should sound well before any point of emergency.? I'm considering sounding a warning at 2psi +/- and an alarm at 4psi +/-? but I'm not sure if this is too strict. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Lasse Schmidt Westr?n Upplevelsepresent.se 070-28 32 660 Upplevelser, events och kryssningar. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 24 18:10:31 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 23:10:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing In-Reply-To: <688578772.816029.1456353090025.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <688578772.816029.1456353090025.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <559496622.2080657.1456355431868.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,The DW needs air to replace the water pumped out of the VBT inside the sub,?No need for an air conditioner, a simple shot of air compensates. ?I am glad to have that problem instead of dealing with warm water and being hot inside the sub.Hank On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:31 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: When I dive Gamma, I find I have a slight negative pressure for most of the dive as the air shrinks from the cold. ?The temperature swing is huge from surface to 100 feet. ? As a rule when I dive for any length of time I balance the sub out to Zero on the altimeter by either turning on the compressor or giving a shot of air before I start to surface. ?It is pretty easy to keep the sub within 100 feet from set point on the altimeter, and that is my comfort level.Hank On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 2:58 PM, Lasse Schmidt Westr?n via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Is it possible to correlate the alarm to temperature change in cabin from start of dive? Pressure change might well be over 4 psi if it is hot outside and the water is cold. Cheers Lasse 2016-02-24 20:12 GMT+01:00 Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles : I think this is somewhat subjective but what is general consensus on maximum cabin pressure swing (higher/lower) relative to hatch closing at the start of a dive before setting off alarms?? My thought is that an alarm should sound well before any point of emergency.? I'm considering sounding a warning at 2psi +/- and an alarm at 4psi +/-? but I'm not sure if this is too strict. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Lasse Schmidt Westr?n Upplevelsepresent.se 070-28 32 660 Upplevelser, events och kryssningar. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 24 18:41:31 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 17:41:31 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 Message-ID: What was their pricing like? Iremember I priced out a 60" sphere and it was $96,000.Thanks,Scott Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 02/24/2016 4:34 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 Hi Scott,The place is called American Alloy Steel, it was the first place I inquired at LOL. ?They had both HY 100 and HY 80Hank On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 1:37 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Who have you found as a source? I searched forever and could only find one. I have to dig to remember who it was. haha Thank you, Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 >? Sent: Feb 19 '16 15:58 >? >? Hi Scott, >? I can wait till you get back in March, I look forward to hearing what >? you found. In the mean time I have also sourced both HY 80 and HY 100 >? and it is not nearly as expensive as I expected. >? Hank >? >? On Friday, February 19, 2016 1:18 PM, Scott Waters via >? Personal_Submersibles wrote: >? >? That's right Hank. This would be a much better conversation on the >? phone rather than trying to cram it all into a e-mail that would take >? me a hour or two to type. I am on business trips until March 3, but >? may be able to arange a time to talk to you. >? Thank you, >? Scott Waters >? >? Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >? >? -------- Original message -------- >? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >? >? Date: 02/18/2016 3:05 PM (GMT-06:00) >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? >? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 >? >? Hi Scott, >? I am looking for some HY80 I just want some to try welding it. Been >? reading up on it and I am not sure what the big deal is. I know you >? researched it, and recall you saying your found a supplier. >? Hank >? >? _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 24 19:08:12 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 00:08:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2128606060.2092183.1456358892391.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Scott,Not knowing what is needed, I just picked a random size and thickness assuming the sphere would be segmented. ?A 44 inch by 96 inch HY100 is 2398 US ?and HY80 is 2230 US ?for the same size and the thickness is 1\2 inch. ?If I recall they can supply 1 inch thickness.Hank On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 4:41 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: What was their pricing like? Iremember I priced out a 60" sphere and it was $96,000.Thanks,Scott Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 02/24/2016 4:34 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 Hi Scott,The place is called American Alloy Steel, it was the first place I inquired at LOL. ?They had both HY 100 and HY 80Hank On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 1:37 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Who have you found as a source? I searched forever and could only find one. I have to dig to remember who it was. haha Thank you, Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 >? Sent: Feb 19 '16 15:58 >? >? Hi Scott, >? I can wait till you get back in March, I look forward to hearing what >? you found. In the mean time I have also sourced both HY 80 and HY 100 >? and it is not nearly as expensive as I expected. >? Hank >? >? On Friday, February 19, 2016 1:18 PM, Scott Waters via >? Personal_Submersibles wrote: >? >? That's right Hank. This would be a much better conversation on the >? phone rather than trying to cram it all into a e-mail that would take >? me a hour or two to type. I am on business trips until March 3, but >? may be able to arange a time to talk to you. >? Thank you, >? Scott Waters >? >? Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >? >? -------- Original message -------- >? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >? >? Date: 02/18/2016 3:05 PM (GMT-06:00) >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? >? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 >? >? Hi Scott, >? I am looking for some HY80 I just want some to try welding it. Been >? reading up on it and I am not sure what the big deal is. I know you >? researched it, and recall you saying your found a supplier. >? Hank >? >? _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 24 19:18:48 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 17:18:48 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 In-Reply-To: <2128606060.2092183.1456358892391.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2128606060.2092183.1456358892391.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <445756c0-81d3-47a9-b833-23dc5ec57c6b@email.android.com> Did you look at Canadian suppliers? With everyone hurting right now you might find a deal if anyone has inventory, or alternatively buy from China. Source the plate, and have EE do the forming / fabrication? Sean On February 24, 2016 5:08:12 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Scott,Not knowing what is needed, I just picked a random size and >thickness assuming the sphere would be segmented. ?A 44 inch by 96 inch >HY100 is 2398 US ?and HY80 is 2230 US ?for the same size and the >thickness is 1\2 inch. ?If I recall they can supply 1 inch >thickness.Hank > >On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 4:41 PM, Scott Waters via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >What was their pricing like? Iremember I priced out a 60" sphere and it >was $96,000.Thanks,Scott > > >Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > >-------- Original message -------- >From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > >Date: 02/24/2016 4:34 PM (GMT-06:00) >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 > >Hi Scott,The place is called American Alloy Steel, it was the first >place I inquired at LOL. ?They had both HY 100 and HY 80Hank > >On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 1:37 PM, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hank, > >Who have you found as a source? I searched forever and could only find >one. I have to dig to remember who it was. haha > >Thank you, >Scott Waters > >>? -------Original Message------- >>? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > >>? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 >>? Sent: Feb 19 '16 15:58 >>? >>? Hi Scott, >>? I can wait till you get back in March, I look forward to hearing >what >>? you found. In the mean time I have also sourced both HY 80 and HY >100 >>? and it is not nearly as expensive as I expected. >>? Hank >>? >>? On Friday, February 19, 2016 1:18 PM, Scott Waters via >>? Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>? >>? That's right Hank. This would be a much better conversation on the >>? phone rather than trying to cram it all into a e-mail that would >take >>? me a hour or two to type. I am on business trips until March 3, but >>? may be able to arange a time to talk to you. >>? Thank you, >>? Scott Waters >>? >>? Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>? >>? -------- Original message -------- >>? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>? >>? Date: 02/18/2016 3:05 PM (GMT-06:00) >>? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>? >>? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 >>? >>? Hi Scott, >>? I am looking for some HY80 I just want some to try welding it. Been >>? reading up on it and I am not sure what the big deal is. I know you >>? researched it, and recall you saying your found a supplier. >>? Hank >>? >>? _______________________________________________ >>? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>? >>? >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 24 19:23:29 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 00:23:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 In-Reply-To: <445756c0-81d3-47a9-b833-23dc5ec57c6b@email.android.com> References: <445756c0-81d3-47a9-b833-23dc5ec57c6b@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1734810690.2067272.1456359809980.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I did not go further than the US quote and talking with EE. ?EE is willing to form if I supply the material. ? I won't be doing anything for the time being because you can add me to the "hurting" group ;-) ? ?Hank On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 5:19 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Did you look at Canadian suppliers? With everyone hurting right now you might find a deal if anyone has inventory, or alternatively buy from China. Source the plate, and have EE do the forming / fabrication?Sean On February 24, 2016 5:08:12 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott,Not knowing what is needed, I just picked a random size and thickness assuming the sphere would be segmented. ?A 44 inch by 96 inch HY100 is 2398 US ?and HY80 is 2230 US ?for the same size and the thickness is 1\2 inch. ?If I recall they can supply 1 inch thickness.Hank On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 4:41 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: What was their pricing like? Iremember I priced out a 60" sphere and it was $96,000.Thanks,Scott Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 02/24/2016 4:34 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 Hi Scott,The place is called American Alloy Steel, it was the first place I inquired at LOL. ?They had both HY 100 and HY 80Hank On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 1:37 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Who have you found as a source? I searched forever and could only find one. I have to dig to remember who it was. haha Thank you, Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? S! ubject:Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 >? Sent: Feb 19 '16 15:58 >? >? Hi Scott, >? I can wait till you get back in March, I look forward to hearing what >? you found. In the mean time I have also sourced both HY 80 and HY 100 >? and it is not nearly as expensive as I expected. >? Hank >? >? On Friday, February 19, 2016 1:18 PM, Scott Waters via >? Personal_Submersibles wrote: >? >? That's right Hank. This would be a much betterconversation on the >? phone rather than trying to cram it all into a e-mail that would take >? me a hour or two to type. I am on business trips until March 3, but >? may be able to arange a time to talk to you. >? Thank you, >? Scott Waters >? >? Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >? >? -------- Original message -------- >? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >? >? Date: 02/18/2016 3:05 PM (GMT-06:00) >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussi! on >? >? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 >? >? Hi Scott, >? I am looking for some HY80 I just want some to try welding it. Been >? reading up on it and I am not sure what the big deal is. I know you >? researched it, and recall you saying your found a supplier. >? Hank >? >? _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 24 19:35:19 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 18:35:19 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 Message-ID: Ok. Makes sence. It is worth looking into more.Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 02/24/2016 6:23 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 I did not go further than the US quote and talking with EE. ?EE is willing to form if I supply the material. ? I won't be doing anything for the time being because you can add me to the "hurting" group ;-) ? ?Hank On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 5:19 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Did you look at Canadian suppliers? With everyone hurting right now you might find a deal if anyone has inventory, or alternatively buy from China. Source the plate, and have EE do the forming / fabrication? Sean On February 24, 2016 5:08:12 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott,Not knowing what is needed, I just picked a random size and thickness assuming the sphere would be segmented. ?A 44 inch by 96 inch HY100 is 2398 US ?and HY80 is 2230 US ?for the same size and the thickness is 1\2 inch. ?If I recall they can supply 1 inch thickness.Hank On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 4:41 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: What was their pricing like? Iremember I priced out a 60" sphere and it was $96,000.Thanks,Scott Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 02/24/2016 4:34 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 Hi Scott,The place is called American Alloy Steel, it was the first place I inquired at LOL. ?They had both HY 100 and HY 80Hank On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 1:37 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Who have you found as a source? I searched forever and could only find one. I have to dig to remember who it was. haha Thank you, Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? S! ubject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 >? Sent: Feb 19 '16 15:58 >? >? Hi Scott, >? I can wait till you get back in March, I look forward to hearing what >? you found. In the mean time I have also sourced both HY 80 and HY 100 >? and it is not nearly as expensive as I expected. >? Hank >? >? On Friday, February 19, 2016 1:18 PM, Scott Waters via >? Personal_Submersibles wrote: >? >? That's right Hank. This would be a much better conversation on the >? phone rather than trying to cram it all into a e-mail that would take >? me a hour or two to type. I am on business trips until March 3, but >? may be able to arange a time to talk to you. >? Thank you, >? Scott Waters >? >? Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >? >? -------- Original message -------- >? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >? >? Date: 02/18/2016 3:05 PM (GMT-06:00) >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussi! on >? >? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 >? >? Hi Scott, >? I am looking for some HY80 I just want some to try welding it. Been >? reading up on it and I am not sure what the big deal is. I know you >? researched it, and recall you saying your found a supplier. >? Hank >? >? _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 24 19:41:16 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 00:41:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1834411318.2163604.1456360876029.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Scott,You should consider talking with EE and see if they will build your buoyancy sphere. ?Like Sean says take advantage of our VERY low dollar.EE stands for Edmonton ExchangerHank On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 5:35 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ok. Makes sence. It is worth looking into more.Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 02/24/2016 6:23 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 I did not go further than the US quote and talking with EE. ?EE is willing to form if I supply the material. ? I won't be doing anything for the time being because you can add me to the "hurting" group ;-) ? ?Hank On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 5:19 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Did you look at Canadian suppliers? With everyone hurting right now you might find a deal if anyone has inventory, or alternatively buy from China. Source the plate, and have EE do the forming / fabrication?Sean On February 24, 2016 5:08:12 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott,Not knowing what is needed, I just picked a random size and thickness assuming the sphere would be segmented. ?A 44 inch by 96 inch HY100 is 2398 US ?and HY80 is 2230 US ?for the same size and the thickness is 1\2 inch. ?If I recall they can supply 1 inch thickness.Hank On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 4:41 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: What was their pricing like? Iremember I priced out a 60" sphere and it was $96,000.Thanks,Scott Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 02/24/2016 4:34 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 Hi Scott,The place is called American Alloy Steel, it was the first place I inquired at LOL. ?They had both HY 100 and HY 80Hank On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 1:37 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Who have you found as a source? I searched forever and could only find one. I have to dig to remember who it was. haha Thank you, Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? S! ubject:Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 >? Sent: Feb 19 '16 15:58 >? >? Hi Scott, >? I can wait till you get back in March, I look forward to hearing what >? you found. In the mean time I have also sourced both HY 80 and HY 100 >? and it is not nearly as expensive as I expected. >? Hank >? >? On Friday, February 19, 2016 1:18 PM, Scott Waters via >? Personal_Submersibles wrote: >? >? That's right Hank. This would be a much betterconversation on the >? phone rather than trying to cram it all into a e-mail that would take >? me a hour or two to type. I am on business trips until March 3, but >? may be able to arange a time to talk to you. >? Thank you, >? Scott Waters >? >? Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >? >? -------- Original message -------- >? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >? >? Date: 02/18/2016 3:05 PM (GMT-06:00) >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussi! on >? >? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY80 >? >? Hi Scott, >? I am looking for some HY80 I just want some to try welding it. Been >? reading up on it and I am not sure what the big deal is. I know you >? researched it, and recall you saying your found a supplier. >? Hank >? >? _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 25 12:03:59 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 17:03:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1386643726.2420646.1456419839545.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Here is a picture of Elementary 3000 with the new MBT installed with trawl floats inside. ?The overall size is 8.5 feet long and 82 inches wide, there are 30 11 inch floats inside and the ballast tank. ? On Thursday, February 25, 2016 10:00 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0298.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18054 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 25 12:18:18 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:18:18 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Message-ID: Will it have a sail on it or is it going to be loaded and unloaded on the ship?Thanks,-Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 02/25/2016 11:03 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Here is a picture of Elementary 3000 with the new MBT installed with trawl floats inside. ?The overall size is 8.5 feet long and 82 inches wide, there are 30 11 inch floats inside and the ballast tank. ? On Thursday, February 25, 2016 10:00 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0298.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18054 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 25 12:33:00 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 17:33:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <769642744.2506996.1456421580163.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I am?thinking a sail will be a good plan, at least until my new ship is built.Hank On Thursday, February 25, 2016 10:18 AM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Will it have a sail on it or is it going to be loaded and unloaded on the ship?Thanks,-Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 02/25/2016 11:03 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Here is a picture of Elementary 3000 with the new MBT installed with trawl floats inside. ?The overall size is 8.5 feet long and 82 inches wide, there are 30 11 inch floats inside and the ballast tank. ? On Thursday, February 25, 2016 10:00 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 25 20:05:00 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 19:05:00 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing In-Reply-To: <56CE00AD.2040601@psubs.org> References: <56CE00AD.2040601@psubs.org> Message-ID: Jon for my boat, I have a pressure relief valve with a 1/2 psi cracking pressure to vent pressure while on the surface. I have a high cabin pressure alarm that triggers at 20 psia (5.3 psig) and a cabin lower pressure alarm set at 12 psia (-2.7 psig). In the PLC I also record and display the cabin pressure at the time the hatch is closed and log all alarm states every second. I have never had either a high or low cabin pressure alarm while diving. I have had elevated cabin pressure caused by accidently having the backup manual O2 value open and a leak in an air fitting on anther occasion. Cliff On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I think this is somewhat subjective but what is general consensus on > maximum cabin pressure swing (higher/lower) relative to hatch closing at > the start of a dive before setting off alarms? My thought is that an alarm > should sound well before any point of emergency. I'm considering sounding > a warning at 2psi +/- and an alarm at 4psi +/- but I'm not sure if this is > too strict. > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 25 20:59:16 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 01:59:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] re-machine hatch References: <877461711.2619885.1456451956152.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <877461711.2619885.1456451956152.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,I had the same problem you had. ?I welded the hinge to the hatch after machining, thinking it would not warp because it is super thick and heavy. ? Well yesterday I got my new o-ring and decided to do a final clearance check and sure enough it had a tiny warp. ? So today I spent the whole day setting up the hatch in the lathe and re-faced it. ?It is a blessing in disguise because I found that I made the o-ring groove to small, not sure how that happened but it is all good now. ? The vacuum test is going well.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 25 21:06:51 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 18:06:51 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] re-machine hatch Message-ID: <20160225180651.1448CBDF@m0087797.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 26 00:40:58 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 21:40:58 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing Message-ID: <20160225214058.E7092AB@m0087795.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 26 07:30:02 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 12:30:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] re-machine hatch In-Reply-To: <20160225180651.1448CBDF@m0087797.ppops.net> References: <20160225180651.1448CBDF@m0087797.ppops.net> Message-ID: <622655545.2761031.1456489802885.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian CThought?you were grinding it yourself, did you give up on that?Hank On Thursday, February 25, 2016 7:07 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? I had some issues as well and should have my hatch back soon.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] re-machine hatch Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 01:59:16 +0000 (UTC) Brian,I had the same problem you had. ?I welded the hinge to the hatch after machining, thinking it would not warp because it is super thick and heavy. ? Well yesterday I got my new o-ring and decided to do a final clearance check and sure enough it had a tiny warp. ? So today I spent the whole day setting up the hatch in the lathe and re-faced it. ?It is a blessing in disguise because I found that I made the o-ring groove to small, not sure how that happened but it is all good now. ? The vacuum test is going well.Hank_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 26 09:49:30 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 06:49:30 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] re-machine hatch Message-ID: <20160226064930.E6CA00E@m0087792.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 27 10:07:09 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 09:07:09 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing In-Reply-To: <20160225214058.E7092AB@m0087795.ppops.net> References: <20160225214058.E7092AB@m0087795.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, see McMaster Carr part number 4620K41. This has a 1 psi cracking pressure, not 0.5 psi that I mentioned earlier. Cliff On Thursday, February 25, 2016, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, Where did you find that 1/2 psi relief valve? > > Brian Cox > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing > Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 19:05:00 -0600 > > Jon for my boat, I have a pressure relief valve with a 1/2 psi cracking > pressure to vent pressure while on the surface. I have a high cabin > pressure alarm that triggers at 20 psia (5.3 psig) and a cabin lower > pressure alarm set at 12 psia (-2.7 psig). In the PLC I also record and > display the cabin pressure at the time the hatch is closed and log all > alarm states every second. > > I have never had either a high or low cabin pressure alarm while diving. > I have had elevated cabin pressure caused by accidently having the backup > manual O2 value open and a leak in an air fitting on anther occasion. > > Cliff > > On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > > I think this is somewhat subjective but what is general consensus on > maximum cabin pressure swing (higher/lower) relative to hatch closing at > the start of a dive before setting off alarms? My thought is that an alarm > should sound well before any point of emergency. I'm considering sounding > a warning at 2psi +/- and an alarm at 4psi +/- but I'm not sure if this is > too strict. > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 27 10:11:53 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 07:11:53 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing Message-ID: <20160227071153.1451134C@m0086238.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 27 10:40:45 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 04:40:45 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing In-Reply-To: References: <20160225214058.E7092AB@m0087795.ppops.net> Message-ID: <115FBC03-7A19-480E-A584-0B4D34060A08@yahoo.com> Cliff, that item is carbon steel. I think Brian will be diving in sea water. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 28/02/2016, at 4:07 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Brian, see McMaster Carr part number 4620K41. This has a 1 psi cracking pressure, not 0.5 psi that I mentioned earlier. > > Cliff > >> On Thursday, February 25, 2016, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Cliff, Where did you find that 1/2 psi relief valve? >> >> Brian Cox >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing >> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 19:05:00 -0600 >> >> Jon for my boat, I have a pressure relief valve with a 1/2 psi cracking pressure to vent pressure while on the surface. I have a high cabin pressure alarm that triggers at 20 psia (5.3 psig) and a cabin lower pressure alarm set at 12 psia (-2.7 psig). In the PLC I also record and display the cabin pressure at the time the hatch is closed and log all alarm states every second. >> >> I have never had either a high or low cabin pressure alarm while diving. I have had elevated cabin pressure caused by accidently having the backup manual O2 value open and a leak in an air fitting on anther occasion. >> >> Cliff >> >> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> I think this is somewhat subjective but what is general consensus on maximum cabin pressure swing (higher/lower) relative to hatch closing at the start of a dive before setting off alarms? My thought is that an alarm should sound well before any point of emergency. I'm considering sounding a warning at 2psi +/- and an alarm at 4psi +/- but I'm not sure if this is too strict. >> >> Jon >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 27 10:49:53 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 04:49:53 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing In-Reply-To: References: <20160225214058.E7092AB@m0087795.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, either Carsten or Emile designed & built there own check valve. They posted the design on Psubs. Very easy to make & you can plunge it to equalize the pressure before opening the hatch. i think I have a pic of it on my other computer. can try & find it ( when I get up) if you are interested. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 28/02/2016, at 4:07 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Brian, see McMaster Carr part number 4620K41. This has a 1 psi cracking pressure, not 0.5 psi that I mentioned earlier. > > Cliff > >> On Thursday, February 25, 2016, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote:e a picture of it >> Cliff, Where did you find that 1/2 psi relief valve? >> >> Brian Cox >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing >> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 19:05:00 -0600 >> >> Jon for my boat, I have a pressure relief valve with a 1/2 psi cracking pressure to vent pressure while on the surface. I have a high cabin pressure alarm that triggers at 20 psia (5.3 psig) and a cabin lower pressure alarm set at 12 psia (-2.7 psig). In the PLC I also record and display the cabin pressure at the time the hatch is closed and log all alarm states every second. >> >> I have never had either a high or low cabin pressure alarm while diving. I have had elevated cabin pressure caused by accidently having the backup manual O2 value open and a leak in an air fitting on anther occasion. >> >> Cliff >> >> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> I think this is somewhat subjective but what is general consensus on maximum cabin pressure swing (higher/lower) relative to hatch closing at the start of a dive before setting off alarms? My thought is that an alarm should sound well before any point of emergency. I'm considering sounding a warning at 2psi +/- and an alarm at 4psi +/- but I'm not sure if this is too strict. >> >> Jon >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 27 13:18:40 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 12:18:40 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing In-Reply-To: <115FBC03-7A19-480E-A584-0B4D34060A08@yahoo.com> References: <20160225214058.E7092AB@m0087795.ppops.net> <115FBC03-7A19-480E-A584-0B4D34060A08@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2A8F3A74-31B3-4367-9047-8B299F23206C@gmail.com> Yes, I thought I gave the number for the stainless steel version. Yes ss is the way to go. Thanks for catching this. Cliff Redus > On Feb 27, 2016, at 9:40 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, > that item is carbon steel. I think Brian will be diving in sea water. > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 28/02/2016, at 4:07 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Brian, see McMaster Carr part number 4620K41. This has a 1 psi cracking pressure, not 0.5 psi that I mentioned earlier. >> >> Cliff >> >>> On Thursday, February 25, 2016, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Cliff, Where did you find that 1/2 psi relief valve? >>> >>> Brian Cox >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing >>> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 19:05:00 -0600 >>> >>> Jon for my boat, I have a pressure relief valve with a 1/2 psi cracking pressure to vent pressure while on the surface. I have a high cabin pressure alarm that triggers at 20 psia (5.3 psig) and a cabin lower pressure alarm set at 12 psia (-2.7 psig). In the PLC I also record and display the cabin pressure at the time the hatch is closed and log all alarm states every second. >>> >>> I have never had either a high or low cabin pressure alarm while diving. I have had elevated cabin pressure caused by accidently having the backup manual O2 value open and a leak in an air fitting on anther occasion. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> I think this is somewhat subjective but what is general consensus on maximum cabin pressure swing (higher/lower) relative to hatch closing at the start of a dive before setting off alarms? My thought is that an alarm should sound well before any point of emergency. I'm considering sounding a warning at 2psi +/- and an alarm at 4psi +/- but I'm not sure if this is too strict. >>> >>> Jon >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 27 13:41:52 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 13:41:52 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing In-Reply-To: References: <20160225214058.E7092AB@m0087795.ppops.net> Message-ID: The problem with that valve is that it's just got a 1/4" diameter, and you really want it to handle large volumes. Emile and I as mentioned built our own and they're really easy to make. Interestingly we made them independently but what we came up with is identical. I know Emile posted his design here a while back, so it must be somewhere in the archives. I never made a drawing of mine, just made the actual valve directly since it's so straightforward. It's machined from a SS round and consists of just two parts. The main body is a cylinder with a bunch of holes drilled through it, and one central hole for the stem. This cylinder is welded into the hull. The other part is the cap, a shorter length cut from the same solid round but with an O ring groove around the edge and no holes. The stem goes through the body and screws into the cap. You put a spring on the stem and a wing nut to adjust the cracking pressure. That's it. If interior pressure is stronger that the spring, the cap lifts and in so doing opens all the holes. Best, Alec On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Brian, see McMaster Carr part number 4620K41. This has a 1 psi cracking > pressure, not 0.5 psi that I mentioned earlier. > > Cliff > > > On Thursday, February 25, 2016, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Cliff, Where did you find that 1/2 psi relief valve? >> >> Brian Cox >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing >> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 19:05:00 -0600 >> >> Jon for my boat, I have a pressure relief valve with a 1/2 psi cracking >> pressure to vent pressure while on the surface. I have a high cabin >> pressure alarm that triggers at 20 psia (5.3 psig) and a cabin lower >> pressure alarm set at 12 psia (-2.7 psig). In the PLC I also record and >> display the cabin pressure at the time the hatch is closed and log all >> alarm states every second. >> >> I have never had either a high or low cabin pressure alarm while diving. >> I have had elevated cabin pressure caused by accidently having the backup >> manual O2 value open and a leak in an air fitting on anther occasion. >> >> Cliff >> >> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> I think this is somewhat subjective but what is general consensus on >> maximum cabin pressure swing (higher/lower) relative to hatch closing at >> the start of a dive before setting off alarms? My thought is that an alarm >> should sound well before any point of emergency. I'm considering sounding >> a warning at 2psi +/- and an alarm at 4psi +/- but I'm not sure if this is >> too strict. >> >> Jon >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 27 13:59:15 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 18:59:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing In-Reply-To: References: <20160225214058.E7092AB@m0087795.ppops.net> Message-ID: <356359556.333169.1456599555611.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I sent this attachment & a couple of pictures but I haven't seen it yet,so here is ?just the attachment only.This could be adapted in to some sort of snorkel for air on the surface.Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing The problem with that valve is that it's just got a 1/4" diameter, and you really want it to handle large volumes. Emile and I as mentioned built our own and they're really easy to make. Interestingly we made them independently but what we came up with is identical. I know Emile posted his design here a while back, so it must be somewhere in the archives. I never made a drawing of mine, just made the actual valve directly since it's so straightforward. It's machined from a SS round and consists of just two parts. The main body is a cylinder with a bunch of holes drilled through it, and one central hole for the stem. This cylinder is welded into the hull. The other part is the cap, a shorter length cut from the same solid round but with an O ring groove around the edge and no holes. The stem goes through the body and screws into the cap. You put a spring on the stem and a wing nut to adjust the cracking pressure. That's it. If interior pressure is stronger that the spring, the cap lifts and in so doing opens all the holes.? Best, Alec On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian, see McMaster Carr part number 4620K41.? This has a 1 psi cracking pressure, not 0.5 psi that I mentioned earlier. Cliff On Thursday, February 25, 2016, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,????????? Where did you find that 1/2 psi?relief valve??Brian Cox --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 19:05:00 -0600 Jon for my boat, I have a pressure relief valve with a 1/2 psi cracking pressure to vent pressure while on the surface.? I have a high cabin pressure? alarm that triggers at 20 psia (5.3 psig) and a cabin lower pressure alarm set at 12 psia (-2.7 psig).???In the PLC I also record and display the cabin pressure at the time the hatch is closed and log all alarm states every second.? I have never had either a high or low cabin pressure alarm while diving.? I have had elevated cabin pressure caused by accidently having the backup manual O2 value open and a leak in an air fitting on anther occasion. Cliff On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I think this is somewhat subjective but what is general consensus on maximum cabin pressure swing (higher/lower) relative to hatch closing at the start of a dive before setting off alarms?? My thought is that an alarm should sound well before any point of emergency.? I'm considering sounding a warning at 2psi +/- and an alarm at 4psi +/-? but I'm not sure if this is too strict. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Overpressurevalve_50mm.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 10946 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 27 14:09:47 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 19:09:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing In-Reply-To: <356359556.333169.1456599555611.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160225214058.E7092AB@m0087795.ppops.net> <356359556.333169.1456599555611.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <882036409.296565.1456600187924.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> OK I got the last email back will try & send a picture.This valve works well & Emile presses it before opening the hatchto equalize the last bit of pressure. From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 7:59 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing I sent this attachment & a couple of pictures but I haven't seen it yet,so here is ?just the attachment only.This could be adapted in to some sort of snorkel for air on the surface.Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing The problem with that valve is that it's just got a 1/4" diameter, and you really want it to handle large volumes. Emile and I as mentioned built our own and they're really easy to make. Interestingly we made them independently but what we came up with is identical. I know Emile posted his design here a while back, so it must be somewhere in the archives. I never made a drawing of mine, just made the actual valve directly since it's so straightforward. It's machined from a SS round and consists of just two parts. The main body is a cylinder with a bunch of holes drilled through it, and one central hole for the stem. This cylinder is welded into the hull. The other part is the cap, a shorter length cut from the same solid round but with an O ring groove around the edge and no holes. The stem goes through the body and screws into the cap. You put a spring on the stem and a wing nut to adjust the cracking pressure. That's it. If interior pressure is stronger that the spring, the cap lifts and in so doing opens all the holes.? Best, Alec On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian, see McMaster Carr part number 4620K41.? This has a 1 psi cracking pressure, not 0.5 psi that I mentioned earlier. Cliff On Thursday, February 25, 2016, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,????????? Where did you find that 1/2 psi?relief valve??Brian Cox --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 19:05:00 -0600 Jon for my boat, I have a pressure relief valve with a 1/2 psi cracking pressure to vent pressure while on the surface.? I have a high cabin pressure? alarm that triggers at 20 psia (5.3 psig) and a cabin lower pressure alarm set at 12 psia (-2.7 psig).???In the PLC I also record and display the cabin pressure at the time the hatch is closed and log all alarm states every second.? I have never had either a high or low cabin pressure alarm while diving.? I have had elevated cabin pressure caused by accidently having the backup manual O2 value open and a leak in an air fitting on anther occasion. Cliff On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I think this is somewhat subjective but what is general consensus on maximum cabin pressure swing (higher/lower) relative to hatch closing at the start of a dive before setting off alarms?? My thought is that an alarm should sound well before any point of emergency.? I'm considering sounding a warning at 2psi +/- and an alarm at 4psi +/-? but I'm not sure if this is too strict. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 3126.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 35776 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 3127.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 25859 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 27 14:40:06 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 19:40:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail design References: <1205839607.266206.1456602006264.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1205839607.266206.1456602006264.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Scott,Does your Pisces sail have water drains with flaps to keep water out or are the vents free flowing.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 27 21:45:51 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 18:45:51 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing Message-ID: <20160227184551.E70092D@m0087795.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 27 23:36:06 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 17:36:06 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing In-Reply-To: <356359556.333169.1456599555611.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160225214058.E7092AB@m0087795.ppops.net> <356359556.333169.1456599555611.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56d27945.9757620a.9bf4c.2cdb@mx.google.com> I know Emile has had it working but is it possible for the O?ring to dislodge with flow. I think the the O?ring should be more captive like in a dovetail groove in Parker book. It is nice and simple but it should be tested at different pressures and flows. Comments? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 28 February 2016 7:59 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing I sent this attachment & a couple of pictures but I haven't seen it yet, so here is just the attachment only. This could be adapted in to some sort of snorkel for air on the surface. Alan _____ From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing The problem with that valve is that it's just got a 1/4" diameter, and you really want it to handle large volumes. Emile and I as mentioned built our own and they're really easy to make. Interestingly we made them independently but what we came up with is identical. I know Emile posted his design here a while back, so it must be somewhere in the archives. I never made a drawing of mine, just made the actual valve directly since it's so straightforward. It's machined from a SS round and consists of just two parts. The main body is a cylinder with a bunch of holes drilled through it, and one central hole for the stem. This cylinder is welded into the hull. The other part is the cap, a shorter length cut from the same solid round but with an O ring groove around the edge and no holes. The stem goes through the body and screws into the cap. You put a spring on the stem and a wing nut to adjust the cracking pressure. That's it. If interior pressure is stronger that the spring, the cap lifts and in so doing opens all the holes. Best, Alec On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian, see McMaster Carr part number 4620K41. This has a 1 psi cracking pressure, not 0.5 psi that I mentioned earlier. Cliff On Thursday, February 25, 2016, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, Where did you find that 1/2 psi relief valve? Brian Cox --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 19:05:00 -0600 Jon for my boat, I have a pressure relief valve with a 1/2 psi cracking pressure to vent pressure while on the surface. I have a high cabin pressure alarm that triggers at 20 psia (5.3 psig) and a cabin lower pressure alarm set at 12 psia (-2.7 psig). In the PLC I also record and display the cabin pressure at the time the hatch is closed and log all alarm states every second. I have never had either a high or low cabin pressure alarm while diving. I have had elevated cabin pressure caused by accidently having the backup manual O2 value open and a leak in an air fitting on anther occasion. Cliff On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I think this is somewhat subjective but what is general consensus on maximum cabin pressure swing (higher/lower) relative to hatch closing at the start of a dive before setting off alarms? My thought is that an alarm should sound well before any point of emergency. I'm considering sounding a warning at 2psi +/- and an alarm at 4psi +/- but I'm not sure if this is too strict. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 28 01:20:16 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 22:20:16 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing Message-ID: <20160227222016.E6FDFBF@m0087792.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 28 02:35:35 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 07:35:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing In-Reply-To: <20160227222016.E6FDFBF@m0087792.ppops.net> References: <20160227222016.E6FDFBF@m0087792.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1591335091.464801.1456644935814.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,one way round that would be to weld a tube to the port below thewater line & have the tube coming up to the top of the sub with the exhaust valvemounted on that. However it would be difficult to set up a mechanism to plungeit.Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 7:20 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing I guess if the relief valve is more than a couple of feet below the water line, that would be a 1/2 psi per foot, which would render the valve superfluous.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 17:36:06 +1300 I know Emile has had it working but is it ?possible for the O?ring to dislodge with flow.? I think the the O?ring should be more captive like in a dovetail groove in Parker book.? It is nice and simple but it should be tested at different pressures and flows.? Comments?Hugh?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 28 February 2016 7:59 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing?I sent this attachment & a couple of pictures but I haven't seen it yet,so here is ?just the attachment only.This could be adapted in to some sort of snorkel for air on the surface.Alan?From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing?The problem with that valve is that it's just got a 1/4" diameter, and you really want it to handle large volumes. Emile and I as mentioned built our own and they're really easy to make. Interestingly we made them independently but what we came up with is identical. I know Emile posted his design here a while back, so it must be somewhere in the archives. I never made a drawing of mine, just made the actual valve directly since it's so straightforward. It's machined from a SS round and consists of just two parts. The main body is a cylinder with a bunch of holes drilled through it, and one central hole for the stem. This cylinder is welded into the hull. The other part is the cap, a shorter length cut from the same solid round but with an O ring groove around the edge and no holes. The stem goes through the body and screws into the cap. You put a spring on the stem and a wing nut to adjust the cracking pressure. That's it. If interior pressure is stronger that the spring, the cap lifts and in so doing opens all the holes.??Best, Alec?On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian, see McMaster Carr part number 4620K41.? This has a 1 psi cracking pressure, not 0.5 psi that I mentioned earlier.?Cliff On Thursday, February 25, 2016, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,????????? Where did you find that 1/2 psi?relief valve??Brian Cox --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 19:05:00 -0600Jon for my boat, I have a pressure relief valve with a 1/2 psi cracking pressure to vent pressure while on the surface.? I have a high cabin pressure? alarm that triggers at 20 psia (5.3 psig) and a cabin lower pressure alarm set at 12 psia (-2.7 psig).???In the PLC I also record and display the cabin pressure at the time the hatch is closed and log all alarm states every second.? ?I have never had either a high or low cabin pressure alarm while diving.? I have had elevated cabin pressure caused by accidently having the backup manual O2 value open and a leak in an air fitting on anther occasion.?Cliff?On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I think this is somewhat subjective but what is general consensus on maximum cabin pressure swing (higher/lower) relative to hatch closing at the start of a dive before setting off alarms?? My thought is that an alarm should sound well before any point of emergency.? I'm considering sounding a warning at 2psi +/- and an alarm at 4psi +/-? but I'm not sure if this is too strict. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles?_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 28 02:57:58 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 23:57:58 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing Message-ID: <20160227235758.E70004A@m0087795.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 28 06:52:18 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 06:52:18 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing In-Reply-To: <20160227184551.E70092D@m0087795.ppops.net> References: <20160227184551.E70092D@m0087795.ppops.net> Message-ID: <5DD87466-1D72-4F0D-B861-3DC92D65A337@gmail.com> It does need to go above the waterline. On surfacing you push the stem to equalize pressure, and if you did that underwater you'd get some water in the boat. Nothing huge, but definitely a nuisance. How about in the hatch? That's where it's going on Shackleton. Best, Alec > On Feb 27, 2016, at 9:45 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Would there be any problem locating that valve below the water line, I don't want have any available ports up high. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing > Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 12:18:40 -0600 > > Yes, I thought I gave the number for the stainless steel version. Yes ss is the way to go. > > Thanks for catching this. > > > Cliff Redus > > On Feb 27, 2016, at 9:40 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, > that item is carbon steel. I think Brian will be diving in sea water. > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 28/02/2016, at 4:07 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Brian, see McMaster Carr part number 4620K41. This has a 1 psi cracking pressure, not 0.5 psi that I mentioned earlier. > > Cliff > > On Thursday, February 25, 2016, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Cliff, Where did you find that 1/2 psi relief valve? > > Brian Cox > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing > Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 19:05:00 -0600 > > Jon for my boat, I have a pressure relief valve with a 1/2 psi cracking pressure to vent pressure while on the surface. I have a high cabin pressure alarm that triggers at 20 psia (5.3 psig) and a cabin lower pressure alarm set at 12 psia (-2.7 psig). In the PLC I also record and display the cabin pressure at the time the hatch is closed and log all alarm states every second. > > I have never had either a high or low cabin pressure alarm while diving. I have had elevated cabin pressure caused by accidently having the backup manual O2 value open and a leak in an air fitting on anther occasion. > > Cliff > > On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I think this is somewhat subjective but what is general consensus on maximum cabin pressure swing (higher/lower) relative to hatch closing at the start of a dive before setting off alarms? My thought is that an alarm should sound well before any point of emergency. I'm considering sounding a warning at 2psi +/- and an alarm at 4psi +/- but I'm not sure if this is too strict. > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 28 10:49:12 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 07:49:12 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing Message-ID: <20160228074912.14513D78@m0086238.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 28 10:57:54 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 15:57:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing In-Reply-To: <20160227222016.E6FDFBF@m0087792.ppops.net> References: <20160227222016.E6FDFBF@m0087792.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1448026081.453925.1456675074796.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,Where to put the relief valve, in my opinion it should stay on the store shelf lol. ? I have a vent valve in the hatch, it is a 1\4 inch valve. ?If you have a 1\2 psi?relief valve and you want it to open at the surface, what is the point in having it? ?You want a?relief valve to prevent your hatch blowing off or ports popping off. ?Well if your at the surface it is to late, the?relief valve needs to open on the way to the?surface. ?That means you need to surface super slow and stop at just the right depth and wait for the valve to vent off pressure before you continue to the surface. ?So if your going to put a relief valve in you best go big, like Emile and Alec have ?or it will be like waiting for a giant inner tube to deflate that has one pound of air pressure in it. ? Your sub does not need a relief valve, can't hurt but no need in my mind, because you have small bolted ports and a good hatch securing system. ?It would be different if you had a big dome that was not strapped ?on like Gamma has.?We talked a while back about this and I remember Alec talking about rubber straps holding the hatch down. ?Now that is how I think it should be done. ?As long as there is catch so the hatch can only open an inch or two. ?Hank On Saturday, February 27, 2016 11:20 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I guess if the relief valve is more than a couple of feet below the water line, that would be a 1/2 psi per foot, which would render the valve superfluous.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 17:36:06 +1300 I know Emile has had it working but is it ?possible for the O?ring to dislodge with flow.? I think the the O?ring should be more captive like in a dovetail groove in Parker book.? It is nice and simple but it should be tested at different pressures and flows.? Comments?Hugh?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 28 February 2016 7:59 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing?I sent this attachment & a couple of pictures but I haven't seen it yet,so here is ?just the attachment only.This could be adapted in to some sort of snorkel for air on the surface.Alan?From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing?The problem with that valve is that it's just got a 1/4" diameter, and you really want it to handle large volumes. Emile and I as mentioned built our own and they're really easy to make. Interestingly we made them independently but what we came up with is identical. I know Emile posted his design here a while back, so it must be somewhere in the archives. I never made a drawing of mine, just made the actual valve directly since it's so straightforward. It's machined from a SS round and consists of just two parts. The main body is a cylinder with a bunch of holes drilled through it, and one central hole for the stem. This cylinder is welded into the hull. The other part is the cap, a shorter length cut from the same solid round but with an O ring groove around the edge and no holes. The stem goes through the body and screws into the cap. You put a spring on the stem and a wing nut to adjust the cracking pressure. That's it. If interior pressure is stronger that the spring, the cap lifts and in so doing opens all the holes.??Best, Alec?On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian, see McMaster Carr part number 4620K41.? This has a 1 psi cracking pressure, not 0.5 psi that I mentioned earlier.?Cliff On Thursday, February 25, 2016, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,????????? Where did you find that 1/2 psi?relief valve??Brian Cox --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 19:05:00 -0600Jon for my boat, I have a pressure relief valve with a 1/2 psi cracking pressure to vent pressure while on the surface.? I have a high cabin pressure? alarm that triggers at 20 psia (5.3 psig) and a cabin lower pressure alarm set at 12 psia (-2.7 psig).???In the PLC I also record and display the cabin pressure at the time the hatch is closed and log all alarm states every second.? ?I have never had either a high or low cabin pressure alarm while diving.? I have had elevated cabin pressure caused by accidently having the backup manual O2 value open and a leak in an air fitting on anther occasion.?Cliff?On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I think this is somewhat subjective but what is general consensus on maximum cabin pressure swing (higher/lower) relative to hatch closing at the start of a dive before setting off alarms?? My thought is that an alarm should sound well before any point of emergency.? I'm considering sounding a warning at 2psi +/- and an alarm at 4psi +/-? but I'm not sure if this is too strict. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles?_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 28 13:03:35 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 11:03:35 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing In-Reply-To: <1448026081.453925.1456675074796.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160227222016.E6FDFBF@m0087792.ppops.net> <1448026081.453925.1456675074796.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <02860010-291f-4141-9610-0e7fbd618aad@email.android.com> The requirements only state that some means be provided of equalizing pressure on both sides of a hatch prior to opening. To me, this reads like something as simple as a small diameter needle or ball valve connecting the two sides, as there is no particular requirement for speed of equalization, and in fact the smaller flow area is safer in the event of something leaking. The rules indicate that no possible failure by design should be capable of raising the interior pressure 1 atm, so really, the only reason to need a high volume OPV is if some lower pressure than that caused by some sort of failure could potentially unseat a dome, hatch or other fixture with limited capability to withstand internal pressure, in a way that is both potentially dangerous and can't otherwise be addressed in design. The other possibility is if you want to accommodate a salvage blowdown at depth as a flooding control measure, and then be able to vent that excess pressure on the way up, in which case a high flow valve is helpful, but I would still pay particular attention to how one might accommodate a failure of such a valve to reseat. Sean On February 28, 2016 8:57:54 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Brian,Where to put the relief valve, in my opinion it should stay on >the store shelf lol. ? I have a vent valve in the hatch, it is a 1\4 >inch valve. ?If you have a 1\2 psi?relief valve and you want it to open >at the surface, what is the point in having it? ?You want a?relief >valve to prevent your hatch blowing off or ports popping off. ?Well if >your at the surface it is to late, the?relief valve needs to open on >the way to the?surface. ?That means you need to surface super slow and >stop at just the right depth and wait for the valve to vent off >pressure before you continue to the surface. ?So if your going to put a >relief valve in you best go big, like Emile and Alec have ?or it will >be like waiting for a giant inner tube to deflate that has one pound of >air pressure in it. ? Your sub does not need a relief valve, can't hurt >but no need in my mind, because you have small bolted ports and a good >hatch securing system. ?It would be different if you had a big dome >that was not strapped ?on like Gamma has.?We talked a while back about >this and I remember Alec talking about rubber straps holding the hatch >down. ?Now that is how I think it should be done. ?As long as there is >catch so the hatch can only open an inch or two. ?Hank > >On Saturday, February 27, 2016 11:20 PM, Brian Cox via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >I guess if the relief valve is more than a couple of feet below the >water line, that would be a 1/2 psi per foot, which would render the >valve superfluous.?Brian > >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > >To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing >Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 17:36:06 +1300 > >I know Emile has had it working but is it ?possible for the O?ring to >dislodge with flow.? I think the the O?ring should be more captive like >in a dovetail groove in Parker book.? It is nice and simple but it >should be tested at different pressures and flows.? Comments?Hugh?From: >Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >Sent: Sunday, 28 February 2016 7:59 a.m. >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing?I sent >this attachment & a couple of pictures but I haven't seen it yet,so >here is ?just the attachment only.This could be adapted in to some sort >of snorkel for air on the surface.Alan?From: Alec Smyth via >Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 7:41 AM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing?The >problem with that valve is that it's just got a 1/4" diameter, and you >really want it to handle large volumes. Emile and I as mentioned built >our own and they're really easy to make. Interestingly we made them >independently but what we came up with is identical. I know Emile >posted his design here a while back, so it must be somewhere in the >archives. I never made a drawing of mine, just made the actual valve >directly since it's so straightforward. It's machined from a SS round >and consists of just two parts. The main body is a cylinder with a >bunch of holes drilled through it, and one central hole for the stem. >This cylinder is welded into the hull. The other part is the cap, a >shorter length cut from the same solid round but with an O ring groove >around the edge and no holes. The stem goes through the body and screws >into the cap. You put a spring on the stem and a wing nut to adjust the >cracking pressure. That's it. If interior pressure is stronger that the >spring, the cap lifts and in so doing opens all the holes.??Best, >Alec?On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Cliff Redus via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Brian, see McMaster Carr part number 4620K41.? This has a 1 psi >cracking pressure, not 0.5 psi that I mentioned earlier.?Cliff > >On Thursday, February 25, 2016, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >Cliff,????????? Where did you find that 1/2 psi?relief valve??Brian Cox > >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing >Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 19:05:00 -0600Jon for my boat, I have a pressure >relief valve with a 1/2 psi cracking pressure to vent pressure while on >the surface.? I have a high cabin pressure? alarm that triggers at 20 >psia (5.3 psig) and a cabin lower pressure alarm set at 12 psia (-2.7 >psig).???In the PLC I also record and display the cabin pressure at the >time the hatch is closed and log all alarm states every second.? ?I >have never had either a high or low cabin pressure alarm while diving.? >I have had elevated cabin pressure caused by accidently having the >backup manual O2 value open and a leak in an air fitting on anther >occasion.?Cliff?On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Jon Wallace via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >I think this is somewhat subjective but what is general consensus on >maximum cabin pressure swing (higher/lower) relative to hatch closing >at the start of a dive before setting off alarms?? My thought is that >an alarm should sound well before any point of emergency.? I'm >considering sounding a warning at 2psi +/- and an alarm at 4psi +/-? >but I'm not sure if this is too strict. > >Jon >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles?_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles?_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles >mailing >listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 28 13:45:03 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 18:45:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing In-Reply-To: <02860010-291f-4141-9610-0e7fbd618aad@email.android.com> References: <20160227222016.E6FDFBF@m0087792.ppops.net> <1448026081.453925.1456675074796.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <02860010-291f-4141-9610-0e7fbd618aad@email.android.com> Message-ID: <13168388.549823.1456685103888.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> G.L. says that "pipes leading through the pressure hull wall are to be fittedwith two shut off devices, one of which is to be located immediately at thehull wall"? ?So the overpressure valve would be one valve & G.L. would require one more.Alan From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 7:03 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing The requirements only state that some means be provided of equalizing pressure on both sides of a hatch prior to opening. To me, this reads like something as simple as a small diameter needle or ball valve connecting the two sides, as there is no particular requirement for speed of equalization, and in fact the smaller flow area is safer in the event of something leaking.? The rules indicate that no possible failure by design should be capable of raising the interior pressure 1 atm, so really, the only reason to need a high volume OPV is if some lower pressure than that caused by some sort of failure could potentially unseat a dome, hatch or other fixture with limited capability to withstand internal pressure, in a way that is both potentially dangerous and can't otherwise be addressed in design.? The other possibility is if you want to accommodate a salvage blowdown at depth as a flooding control measure, and then be able to v! ent thatexcess pressure on the way up, in which case a high flow valve is helpful, but I would still pay particular attention to how one might accommodate a failure of such a valve to reseat.Sean On February 28, 2016 8:57:54 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian,Where to put the relief valve, in my opinion it should stay on the store shelf lol. ? I have a vent valve in the hatch, it is a 1\4 inch valve. ?If you have a 1\2 psi?relief valve and you want it to open at the surface, what is the point in having it? ?You want a?relief valve to prevent your hatch blowing off or ports popping off. ?Well if your at the surface it is to late, the?relief valve needs to open on the way to the?surface. ?That means you need to surface super slow and stop at just the right depth and wait for the valve to vent off pressure before you continue to the surface. ?So if your going to put a relief valve in you best go big, like Emile and Alec have ?or it will b! e likewaiting for a giant inner tube to deflate that has one pound of air pressure in it. ? Your sub does not need a relief valve, can't hurt but no need in my mind, because you have small bolted ports and a good hatch securing system. ?It would be different if you had a big dome that was not strapped ?on like Gamma has.?We talked a while back about this and I remember Alec talking about rubber straps holding the hatch down. ?Now that is how I think it should be done. ?As long as there is catch so the hatch can only open an inch or two. ?Hank On Saturday, February 27, 2016 11:20 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I guess if the relief valve is more than a couple of feet below the water line, that would be a 1/2 psi per foot, which would render the valve superfluous.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Accep! tablecabin pressure swing Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 17:36:06 +1300 I know Emile has had it working but is it ?possible for the O?ring to dislodge with flow.? I think the the O?ring should be more captive like in a dovetail groove in Parker book.? It is nice and simple but it should be tested at different pressures and flows.? Comments?Hugh?From: Personal_Subme! rsibles[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 28 February 2016 7:59 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing?I sent this attachment & a couple of pictures but I haven't seen it yet,so here is ?just the attachment only.This could be adapted in to some sort of snorkel for air on the surface.Alan?From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing?The problem with that valve is that it's just got a 1/4" diameter, and you really want it to handle large volumes. Emile and I as mentioned built our own and they're really easy to make. Interestingly we made them independently but what we came up with is identical. I know Emile posted his design here a while back, so it must be somewhere in the archives. I never made a drawing of mine, just made the actual valve directly since it's so straightforward. It's machined from a SS round and consists of just two parts. The main body is a cylinder with a bunch of holes drilled through it, and one central hole for the stem. This cylinder is welded into the hull. The other part is the cap, a shorter length cut from the same solid round but with an O ring groove around the ed! ge andno holes. The stem goes through the body and screws into the cap. You put a spring on the stem and a wing nut to adjust the cracking pressure. That's it. If interior pressure is stronger that the spring, the cap lifts and in so doing opens all the holes.??Best, Alec?On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian, see McMaster Carr part number 4620K41.? This has a 1 psi cracking pressure, not 0.5 psi that I mentioned earlier.?Cliff On Thursday, February 25, 2016, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,????????? W! here didyou find that 1/2 psi?relief valve??Brian Cox --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 19:05:00 -0600Jon for my boat, I have a pressure relief valve with a 1/2 psi cracking pressure to vent pressure while on the surface.? I have a high cabin pressure? alarm that triggers! at 20psia (5.3 psig) and a cabin lower pressure alarm set at 12 psia (-2.7 psig).???In the PLC I also record and display the cabin pressure at the time the hatch is closed and log all alarm states every second.? ?I have never had either a high or low cabin pressure alarm while diving.? I have had elevated cabin pressure caused by accidently having the backup manual O2 value open and a leak in an air fitting on anther occasion.?Cliff?On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 1! :12 PM,Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I think this is somewhat subjective but what is general consensus on maximum cabin pressure swing (higher/lower) relative to hatch closing at the start of a dive before setting off alarms?? My thought is that an alarm should sound well before any point of emergency.? I'm considering sounding a warning at 2psi +/- and an alarm at 4psi +/-? but I'm not sure if this is too strict. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles?_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 28 14:29:00 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 19:29:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail References: <314976553.471601.1456687740139.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <314976553.471601.1456687740139.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I just laid up the fibreglass for my sail and I am not sure what to do about water entry and exit?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 28 15:32:27 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 20:32:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail In-Reply-To: <314976553.471601.1456687740139.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <314976553.471601.1456687740139.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <314976553.471601.1456687740139.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <288418220.620670.1456691547328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> If you can surround your ballast vent valves with the sail, then you canflood it by keeping your vent valves open. How long this will take???? ?Then you could buy several cheap self draining valves & put them in.However it is really ?a wave splash guard so you don't get several gallonsof water down your hatch in one shot.You could just drill some holes at the base of the sail & any water from a wavethat enters will only be a thin layer that won't cover your deck to the height of yourhatch. If you made the holes an appropriate size, you could fit one way valvesin them if you found it necessary.Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 8:29 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail I just laid up the fibreglass for my sail and I am not sure what to do about water entry and exit?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 28 16:05:29 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 22:05:29 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail In-Reply-To: <314976553.471601.1456687740139.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <314976553.471601.1456687740139.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <314976553.471601.1456687740139.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Outer sail? Make sure the water can get quickly out when surfacing. Regards, Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 28 februari 2016 20:29 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail I just laid up the fibreglass for my sail and I am not sure what to do about water entry and exit? Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 28 16:03:31 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 21:03:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail In-Reply-To: <288418220.620670.1456691547328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <288418220.620670.1456691547328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1983533715.520597.1456693412017.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I like the small holes idea,?because your right, ?It is there for wave surge. ?With the sail I should have 28 inches free board. ??The sail goes around the vent valves, but I think it would be pretty slow, I like the small holes idea.thanksHank On Sunday, February 28, 2016 1:32 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: If you can surround your ballast vent valves with the sail, then you canflood it by keeping your vent valves open. How long this will take???? ?Then you could buy several cheap self draining valves & put them in.However it is really ?a wave splash guard so you don't get several gallonsof water down your hatch in one shot.You could just drill some holes at the base of the sail & any water from a wavethat enters will only be a thin layer that won't cover your deck to the height of yourhatch. If you made the holes an appropriate size, you could fit one way valvesin them if you found it necessary.Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 8:29 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail I just laid up the fibreglass for my sail and I am not sure what to do about water entry and exit?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 28 16:17:07 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 21:17:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <605367345.528771.1456694227233.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Emile,How do you drain yours?Hank On Sunday, February 28, 2016 2:05 PM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv7250722055 #yiv7250722055 -- _filtered #yiv7250722055 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7250722055 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv7250722055 #yiv7250722055 p.yiv7250722055MsoNormal, #yiv7250722055 li.yiv7250722055MsoNormal, #yiv7250722055 div.yiv7250722055MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv7250722055 a:link, #yiv7250722055 span.yiv7250722055MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7250722055 a:visited, #yiv7250722055 span.yiv7250722055MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7250722055 span.yiv7250722055E-mailStijl17 {font-family:Arial;color:navy;} _filtered #yiv7250722055 {margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}#yiv7250722055 div.yiv7250722055Section1 {}#yiv7250722055 Outer sail?? Make sure the water canget quickly out when surfacing. ? Regards, Emile ? Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 28 februari 201620:29 Aan: Personal Submersibles GeneralDiscussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail ? Ijust laid up the fibreglass for my sail and I am not sure what to do aboutwater entry and exit? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 28 16:28:26 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 22:28:26 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail In-Reply-To: <605367345.528771.1456694227233.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <605367345.528771.1456694227233.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: With several big holes and sleeves. But when surfacing , 200 to 300 Litres has to go out in just a few seconds.. Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 28 februari 2016 22:17 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail Emile, How do you drain yours? Hank On Sunday, February 28, 2016 2:05 PM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Outer sail? Make sure the water can get quickly out when surfacing. Regards, Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 28 februari 2016 20:29 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail I just laid up the fibreglass for my sail and I am not sure what to do about water entry and exit? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 28 16:33:46 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 21:33:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <879575556.528234.1456695226143.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks'Okay I will make sure it can drain fast. ?I am going to be in Amsterdam May 5th, if you are around I would like to see your new sub you just pick up. ?That is my kind of sub,Hank On Sunday, February 28, 2016 2:28 PM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv6564743405 #yiv6564743405 -- -- filtered {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}#yiv6564743405 filtered {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv6564743405 filtered {margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}#yiv6564743405 _filtered #yiv6564743405 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv6564743405 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv6564743405 #yiv6564743405 p.yiv6564743405MsoNormal, #yiv6564743405 li.yiv6564743405MsoNormal, #yiv6564743405 div.yiv6564743405MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv6564743405 a:link, #yiv6564743405 span.yiv6564743405MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6564743405 a:visited, #yiv6564743405 span.yiv6564743405MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6564743405 p.yiv6564743405msonormal, #yiv6564743405 li.yiv6564743405msonormal, #yiv6564743405 div.yiv6564743405msonormal {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv6564743405 p.yiv6564743405msonormal1, #yiv6564743405 li.yiv6564743405msonormal1, #yiv6564743405 div.yiv6564743405msonormal1 {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv6564743405 span.yiv6564743405msohyperlink1 {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6564743405 span.yiv6564743405msohyperlinkfollowed1 {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6564743405 span.yiv6564743405e-mailstijl171 {font-family:Arial;color:navy;}#yiv6564743405 span.yiv6564743405E-mailStijl25 {font-family:Arial;color:navy;} _filtered #yiv6564743405 {margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}#yiv6564743405 div.yiv6564743405Section1 {}#yiv6564743405 With several big holesand sleeves. But when surfacing , 200 to 300 Litres has to go outin just a few seconds.. ? Emile ? Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 28 februari 201622:17 Aan: Personal Submersibles GeneralDiscussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]sail ? Emile, Howdo you drain yours? Hank ? OnSunday, February 28, 2016 2:05 PM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Outersail?? Make sure thewater can get quickly out when surfacing. ? Regards, Emile ? Van: Personal_Submersibles[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 28 februari 201620:29 Aan: Personal Submersibles GeneralDiscussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail ? Ijust laid up the fibreglass for my sail and I am not sure what to do aboutwater entry and exit? Hank ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 28 17:28:38 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 23:28:38 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail In-Reply-To: <879575556.528234.1456695226143.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <879575556.528234.1456695226143.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: You are welcome Hank. I am located just 30 minutes by car or train from Amsterdam. Can you contact me offlist? Br, Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 28 februari 2016 22:34 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail Thanks' Okay I will make sure it can drain fast. I am going to be in Amsterdam May 5th, if you are around I would like to see your new sub you just pick up. That is my kind of sub, Hank On Sunday, February 28, 2016 2:28 PM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: With several big holes and sleeves. But when surfacing , 200 to 300 Litres has to go out in just a few seconds.. Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 28 februari 2016 22:17 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail Emile, How do you drain yours? Hank On Sunday, February 28, 2016 2:05 PM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Outer sail? Make sure the water can get quickly out when surfacing. Regards, Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 28 februari 2016 20:29 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail I just laid up the fibreglass for my sail and I am not sure what to do about water entry and exit? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 28 18:36:50 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 10:36:50 +1100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail In-Reply-To: References: <879575556.528234.1456695226143.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, The other consideration that immediately sprang to my mind was that if it's not free flooding, as you submerge it will flood very suddenly as the water pours over the top, and this may mess up your buoyancy control. Cheers, Steve On 29 Feb 2016 9:29 am, "Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > You are welcome Hank. I am located just 30 minutes by car or train from > Amsterdam. > > Can you contact me offlist? > > > > Br, Emile > > > ------------------------------ > > *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > *Verzonden:* zondag 28 februari 2016 22:34 > *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail > > > > Thanks' > > Okay I will make sure it can drain fast. > > I am going to be in Amsterdam May 5th, if you are around I would like to > see your new sub you just pick up. That is my kind of sub, > > Hank > > > > On Sunday, February 28, 2016 2:28 PM, Emile van Essen via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > With several big holes and sleeves. But when surfacing , 200 to 300 Litres > has to go out in just a few seconds.. > > > > Emile > > > ------------------------------ > > *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > *Verzonden:* zondag 28 februari 2016 22:17 > *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail > > > > Emile, > > How do you drain yours? > > Hank > > > > On Sunday, February 28, 2016 2:05 PM, Emile van Essen via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Outer sail? > > Make sure the water can get quickly out when surfacing. > > > > Regards, Emile > > > ------------------------------ > > *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > *Verzonden:* zondag 28 februari 2016 20:29 > *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Onderwerp:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail > > > > I just laid up the fibreglass for my sail and I am not sure what to do > about water entry and exit? > > Hank > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 28 18:53:41 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 23:53:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <548642443.549292.1456703621788.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Steve,Agreed, I am doing vents at the base, I just have no experience with this. ?I was not sure if the vents should have flap type doors or if they should be free flowing in both directions. ? How is your sub coming along?Hank On Sunday, February 28, 2016 4:36 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, The other consideration that immediately sprang to my mind was that if it's not free flooding, as you submerge it will flood very suddenly as the water pours over the top, and this may mess up your buoyancy control.Cheers, SteveOn 29 Feb 2016 9:29 am, "Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: You are welcome Hank. Iam located just 30 minutes by car or train from Amsterdam.Can you contact meofflist??Br, Emile?Van: Personal_Submersibles[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 28 februari 201622:34 Aan: Personal Submersibles GeneralDiscussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]sail?Thanks'OkayI will make sure it can drain fast. ?Iam going to be in Amsterdam May 5th, if you are around I would like to see yournew sub you just pick up.? That is my kind of sub,Hank?OnSunday, February 28, 2016 2:28 PM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote:?With severalbig holes and sleeves. But when surfacing , 200 to 300 Litres has to go outin just a few seconds..?Emile?Van: Personal_Submersibles[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 28 februari 201622:17 Aan: Personal Submersibles GeneralDiscussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]sail?Emile,Howdo you drain yours?Hank?OnSunday, February 28, 2016 2:05 PM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote:?Outersail?? Make sure thewater can get quickly out when surfacing.?Regards, Emile?Van: Personal_Submersibles[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 28 februari 201620:29 Aan: Personal Submersibles GeneralDiscussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail?Ijust laid up the fibreglass for my sail and I am not sure what to do aboutwater entry and exit?Hank?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 28 22:09:23 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 19:09:23 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail Message-ID: <20160228190923.E73EE70@m0087795.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 28 22:50:12 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 14:50:12 +1100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail In-Reply-To: <548642443.549292.1456703621788.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <548642443.549292.1456703621788.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Heh, my sub is a very long way off - might have to wait until I retire (in about 30 years!). On 29 Feb 2016 10:57 am, "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Steve, > Agreed, I am doing vents at the base, I just have no experience with > this. I was not sure if the vents should have flap type doors or if they > should be free flowing in both directions. How is your sub coming along? > Hank > > > On Sunday, February 28, 2016 4:36 PM, Stephen Fordyce via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > The other consideration that immediately sprang to my mind was that if > it's not free flooding, as you submerge it will flood very suddenly as the > water pours over the top, and this may mess up your buoyancy control. > Cheers, > Steve > On 29 Feb 2016 9:29 am, "Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > You are welcome Hank. I am located just 30 minutes by car or train from > Amsterdam. > Can you contact me offlist? > > Br, Emile > > ------------------------------ > *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > *Verzonden:* zondag 28 februari 2016 22:34 > *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail > > Thanks' > Okay I will make sure it can drain fast. > I am going to be in Amsterdam May 5th, if you are around I would like to > see your new sub you just pick up. That is my kind of sub, > Hank > > On Sunday, February 28, 2016 2:28 PM, Emile van Essen via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > With several big holes and sleeves. But when surfacing , 200 to 300 Litres > has to go out in just a few seconds.. > > Emile > > ------------------------------ > *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > *Verzonden:* zondag 28 februari 2016 22:17 > *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail > > Emile, > How do you drain yours? > Hank > > On Sunday, February 28, 2016 2:05 PM, Emile van Essen via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Outer sail? > Make sure the water can get quickly out when surfacing. > > Regards, Emile > > ------------------------------ > *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > *Verzonden:* zondag 28 februari 2016 20:29 > *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Onderwerp:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] sail > > I just laid up the fibreglass for my sail and I am not sure what to do > about water entry and exit? > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 29 02:39:56 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 23:39:56 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euronaut's new lights Message-ID: <20160228233956.E6FF600@m0087792.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 29 05:02:46 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 10:02:46 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing In-Reply-To: <13168388.549823.1456685103888.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160227222016.E6FDFBF@m0087792.ppops.net> <1448026081.453925.1456675074796.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <02860010-291f-4141-9610-0e7fbd618aad@email.android.com> <13168388.549823.1456685103888.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: With regards to the valve coming unseated, or dislodging. I made mine with a wing nut on the shaft. Means I can adjust the cracking pressure, and bolt it tight in the event of a leak or excessive flow, such as towing. It feels a little vulnerable on the top and I wish id put a guard around it. Could have had a few more holes as well. I have a dome that is only retained at the edge, so I need the valve. But, I am in agreement with Hank, in the event of an uncontrolled ascent and overpressure situation, im not sure it would vent quick enough. I now have a high power compressor that Hank gave me that vents outside at the flick of a switch. I much prefer this. Pics attached. kind regards James ? ? On 28 February 2016 at 18:45, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > G.L. says that "pipes leading through the pressure hull wall are to be > fitted > with two shut off devices, one of which is to be located immediately at the > hull wall" > So the overpressure valve would be one valve & G.L. would require one > more. > Alan > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Monday, February 29, 2016 7:03 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing > > The requirements only state that some means be provided of equalizing > pressure on both sides of a hatch prior to opening. To me, this reads like > something as simple as a small diameter needle or ball valve connecting the > two sides, as there is no particular requirement for speed of equalization, > and in fact the smaller flow area is safer in the event of something > leaking. The rules indicate that no possible failure by design should be > capable of raising the interior pressure 1 atm, so really, the only reason > to need a high volume OPV is if some lower pressure than that caused by > some sort of failure could potentially unseat a dome, hatch or other > fixture with limited capability to withstand internal pressure, in a way > that is both potentially dangerous and can't otherwise be addressed in > design. The other possibility is if you want to accommodate a salvage > blowdown at depth as a flooding control measure, and then be able to v! ent > that excess pressure on the way up, in which case a high flow valve is > helpful, but I would still pay particular attention to how one might > accommodate a failure of such a valve to reseat. > Sean > > > On February 28, 2016 8:57:54 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Brian, > Where to put the relief valve, in my opinion it should stay on the store > shelf lol. I have a vent valve in the hatch, it is a 1\4 inch valve. If > you have a 1\2 psi relief valve and you want it to open at the surface, > what is the point in having it? You want a relief valve to prevent your > hatch blowing off or ports popping off. Well if your at the surface it is > to late, the relief valve needs to open on the way to the surface. That > means you need to surface super slow and stop at just the right depth and > wait for the valve to vent off pressure before you continue to the > surface. So if your going to put a relief valve in you best go big, like > Emile and Alec have or it will b! e like waiting for a giant inner tube to > deflate that has one pound of air pressure in it. Your sub does not need > a relief valve, can't hurt but no need in my mind, because you have small > bolted ports and a good hatch securing system. It would be different if > you had a big dome that was not strapped on like Gamma has. > We talked a while back about this and I remember Alec talking about rubber > straps holding the hatch down. Now that is how I think it should be done. > As long as there is catch so the hatch can only open an inch or two. > Hank > > > On Saturday, February 27, 2016 11:20 PM, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I guess if the relief valve is more than a couple of feet below the water > line, that would be a 1/2 psi per foot, which would render the valve > superfluous. > > Brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Accep! table cabin pressure swing > Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 17:36:06 +1300 > > I know Emile has had it working but is it possible for the O?ring to > dislodge with flow. I think the the O?ring should be more captive like in > a dovetail groove in Parker book. It is nice and simple but it should be > tested at different pressures and flows. Comments? > Hugh > > *From:* Personal_Subme! rsibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Sunday, 28 February 2016 7:59 a.m. > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing > > I sent this attachment & a couple of pictures but I haven't seen it yet, > so here is just the attachment only. > This could be adapted in to some sort of snorkel for air on the surface. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Sunday, February 28, 2016 7:41 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing > > The problem with that valve is that it's just got a 1/4" diameter, and you > really want it to handle large volumes. Emile and I as mentioned built our > own and they're really easy to make. Interestingly we made them > independently but what we came up with is identical. I know Emile posted > his design here a while back, so it must be somewhere in the archives. I > never made a drawing of mine, just made the actual valve directly since > it's so straightforward. It's machined from a SS round and consists of just > two parts. The main body is a cylinder with a bunch of holes drilled > through it, and one central hole for the stem. This cylinder is welded into > the hull. The other part is the cap, a shorter length cut from the same > solid round but with an O ring groove around the ed! ge and no holes. The > stem goes through the body and screws into the cap. You put a spring on the > stem and a wing nut to adjust the cracking pressure. That's it. If interior > pressure is stronger that the spring, the cap lifts and in so doing opens > all the holes. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Brian, see McMaster Carr part number 4620K41. This has a 1 psi cracking > pressure, not 0.5 psi that I mentioned earlier. > > Cliff > > > On Thursday, February 25, 2016, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, W! here did you find that 1/2 psi relief valve? > > Brian Cox > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing > Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 19:05:00 -0600 > Jon for my boat, I have a pressure relief valve with a 1/2 psi cracking > pressure to vent pressure while on the surface. I have a high cabin > pressure alarm that triggers! at 20 psia (5.3 psig) and a cabin lower > pressure alarm set at 12 psia (-2.7 psig). In the PLC I also record and > display the cabin pressure at the time the hatch is closed and log all > alarm states every second. > > I have never had either a high or low cabin pressure alarm while diving. > I have had elevated cabin pressure caused by accidently having the backup > manual O2 value open and a leak in an air fitting on anther occasion. > > Cliff > > On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 1! :12 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > I think this is somewhat subjective but what is general consensus on > maximum cabin pressure swing (higher/lower) relative to hatch closing at > the start of a dive before setting off alarms? My thought is that an alarm > should sound well before any point of emergency. I'm considering sounding > a warning at 2psi +/- and an alarm at 4psi +/- but I'm not sure if this is > too strict. > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 234.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 112575 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 123.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 103679 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 29 08:36:08 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 06:36:08 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing In-Reply-To: References: <20160227222016.E6FDFBF@m0087792.ppops.net> <1448026081.453925.1456675074796.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <02860010-291f-4141-9610-0e7fbd618aad@email.android.com> <13168388.549823.1456685103888.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'd be interested to learn more about that compressor. Is that the same as the one Hank has in Gamma, or something different? On the relief valve, I suppose one could make it code compliant by piping your cabin air to it through a shutoff, versus simply allowing the cabin air to flow through. Would have to be a big valve to get the flow you need though. Have you done a test to see how much internal pressure it takes to unseat the dome? Also, how quickly can that compressor drop the cabin pressure? Sean On February 29, 2016 3:02:46 AM MST, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >With regards to the valve coming unseated, or dislodging. I made mine >with >a wing nut on the shaft. Means I can adjust the cracking pressure, >and >bolt it tight in the event of a leak or excessive flow, such as towing. > It >feels a little vulnerable on the top and I wish id put a guard around >it. Could have had a few more holes as well. I have a dome that is >only >retained at the edge, so I need the valve. But, I am in agreement with >Hank, in the event of an uncontrolled ascent and overpressure >situation, im >not sure it would vent quick enough. I now have a high power >compressor >that Hank gave me that vents outside at the flick of a switch. I much >prefer this. Pics attached. > >kind regards >James > >? >? > >On 28 February 2016 at 18:45, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> G.L. says that "pipes leading through the pressure hull wall are to >be >> fitted >> with two shut off devices, one of which is to be located immediately >at the >> hull wall" >> So the overpressure valve would be one valve & G.L. would require >one >> more. >> Alan >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Monday, February 29, 2016 7:03 AM >> >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing >> >> The requirements only state that some means be provided of equalizing >> pressure on both sides of a hatch prior to opening. To me, this reads >like >> something as simple as a small diameter needle or ball valve >connecting the >> two sides, as there is no particular requirement for speed of >equalization, >> and in fact the smaller flow area is safer in the event of something >> leaking. The rules indicate that no possible failure by design >should be >> capable of raising the interior pressure 1 atm, so really, the only >reason >> to need a high volume OPV is if some lower pressure than that caused >by >> some sort of failure could potentially unseat a dome, hatch or other >> fixture with limited capability to withstand internal pressure, in a >way >> that is both potentially dangerous and can't otherwise be addressed >in >> design. The other possibility is if you want to accommodate a >salvage >> blowdown at depth as a flooding control measure, and then be able to >v! ent >> that excess pressure on the way up, in which case a high flow valve >is >> helpful, but I would still pay particular attention to how one might >> accommodate a failure of such a valve to reseat. >> Sean >> >> >> On February 28, 2016 8:57:54 AM MST, hank pronk via >Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Brian, >> Where to put the relief valve, in my opinion it should stay on the >store >> shelf lol. I have a vent valve in the hatch, it is a 1\4 inch >valve. If >> you have a 1\2 psi relief valve and you want it to open at the >surface, >> what is the point in having it? You want a relief valve to prevent >your >> hatch blowing off or ports popping off. Well if your at the surface >it is >> to late, the relief valve needs to open on the way to the surface. >That >> means you need to surface super slow and stop at just the right depth >and >> wait for the valve to vent off pressure before you continue to the >> surface. So if your going to put a relief valve in you best go big, >like >> Emile and Alec have or it will b! e like waiting for a giant inner >tube to >> deflate that has one pound of air pressure in it. Your sub does not >need >> a relief valve, can't hurt but no need in my mind, because you have >small >> bolted ports and a good hatch securing system. It would be different >if >> you had a big dome that was not strapped on like Gamma has. >> We talked a while back about this and I remember Alec talking about >rubber >> straps holding the hatch down. Now that is how I think it should be >done. >> As long as there is catch so the hatch can only open an inch or two. >> Hank >> >> >> On Saturday, February 27, 2016 11:20 PM, Brian Cox via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> I guess if the relief valve is more than a couple of feet below the >water >> line, that would be a 1/2 psi per foot, which would render the valve >> superfluous. >> >> Brian >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Accep! table cabin pressure swing >> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 17:36:06 +1300 >> >> I know Emile has had it working but is it possible for the O?ring to >> dislodge with flow. I think the the O?ring should be more captive >like in >> a dovetail groove in Parker book. It is nice and simple but it >should be >> tested at different pressures and flows. Comments? >> Hugh >> >> *From:* Personal_Subme! rsibles [mailto: >> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan James >via >> Personal_Submersibles >> *Sent:* Sunday, 28 February 2016 7:59 a.m. >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing >> >> I sent this attachment & a couple of pictures but I haven't seen it >yet, >> so here is just the attachment only. >> This could be adapted in to some sort of snorkel for air on the >surface. >> Alan >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Sunday, February 28, 2016 7:41 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing >> >> The problem with that valve is that it's just got a 1/4" diameter, >and you >> really want it to handle large volumes. Emile and I as mentioned >built our >> own and they're really easy to make. Interestingly we made them >> independently but what we came up with is identical. I know Emile >posted >> his design here a while back, so it must be somewhere in the >archives. I >> never made a drawing of mine, just made the actual valve directly >since >> it's so straightforward. It's machined from a SS round and consists >of just >> two parts. The main body is a cylinder with a bunch of holes drilled >> through it, and one central hole for the stem. This cylinder is >welded into >> the hull. The other part is the cap, a shorter length cut from the >same >> solid round but with an O ring groove around the ed! ge and no holes. >The >> stem goes through the body and screws into the cap. You put a spring >on the >> stem and a wing nut to adjust the cracking pressure. That's it. If >interior >> pressure is stronger that the spring, the cap lifts and in so doing >opens >> all the holes. >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Cliff Redus via >Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Brian, see McMaster Carr part number 4620K41. This has a 1 psi >cracking >> pressure, not 0.5 psi that I mentioned earlier. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> On Thursday, February 25, 2016, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Cliff, W! here did you find that 1/2 psi relief valve? >> >> Brian Cox >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing >> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 19:05:00 -0600 >> Jon for my boat, I have a pressure relief valve with a 1/2 psi >cracking >> pressure to vent pressure while on the surface. I have a high cabin >> pressure alarm that triggers! at 20 psia (5.3 psig) and a cabin >lower >> pressure alarm set at 12 psia (-2.7 psig). In the PLC I also record >and >> display the cabin pressure at the time the hatch is closed and log >all >> alarm states every second. >> >> I have never had either a high or low cabin pressure alarm while >diving. >> I have had elevated cabin pressure caused by accidently having the >backup >> manual O2 value open and a leak in an air fitting on anther occasion. >> >> Cliff >> >> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 1! :12 PM, Jon Wallace via >Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> I think this is somewhat subjective but what is general consensus on >> maximum cabin pressure swing (higher/lower) relative to hatch closing >at >> the start of a dive before setting off alarms? My thought is that an >alarm >> should sound well before any point of emergency. I'm considering >sounding >> a warning at 2psi +/- and an alarm at 4psi +/- but I'm not sure if >this is >> too strict. >> >> Jon >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 29 08:58:12 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 13:58:12 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing In-Reply-To: References: <20160227222016.E6FDFBF@m0087792.ppops.net> <1448026081.453925.1456675074796.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <02860010-291f-4141-9610-0e7fbd618aad@email.android.com> <13168388.549823.1456685103888.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Sean, Its the baby brother of Hanks. Same thing but a bit smaller. Cornelius Compressor. Googling a bit, it seems they came out of WW2 era aircraft and were used for moving gun turrets. 24v. Pumps to 1500psi. I have it T'd into the aft main HP line with a check valve inline. That's about all I know about it, but it seems really good. Regards James On 29 February 2016 at 13:36, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I'd be interested to learn more about that compressor. Is that the same as > the one Hank has in Gamma, or something different? > > On the relief valve, I suppose one could make it code compliant by piping > your cabin air to it through a shutoff, versus simply allowing the cabin > air to flow through. Would have to be a big valve to get the flow you need > though. > > Have you done a test to see how much internal pressure it takes to unseat > the dome? Also, how quickly can that compressor drop the cabin pressure? > > Sean > > > On February 29, 2016 3:02:46 AM MST, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> With regards to the valve coming unseated, or dislodging. I made mine >> with a wing nut on the shaft. Means I can adjust the cracking pressure, >> and bolt it tight in the event of a leak or excessive flow, such as >> towing. It feels a little vulnerable on the top and I wish id put a guard >> around it. Could have had a few more holes as well. I have a dome that >> is only retained at the edge, so I need the valve. But, I am in agreement >> with Hank, in the event of an uncontrolled ascent and overpressure >> situation, im not sure it would vent quick enough. I now have a high power >> compressor that Hank gave me that vents outside at the flick of a switch. >> I much prefer this. Pics attached. >> >> kind regards >> James >> >> ? >> ? >> >> On 28 February 2016 at 18:45, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> G.L. says that "pipes leading through the pressure hull wall are to be >>> fitted >>> with two shut off devices, one of which is to be located immediately at >>> the >>> hull wall" >>> So the overpressure valve would be ! one valve & G.L. would require >>> one more. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *Sent:* Monday, ! February 29, 2016 7:03 AM >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing >>> >>> The requirements only state that some means be provided of equalizing >>> pressure on both sides of a hatch prior to opening. To me, this reads like >>> something as simple as a small diameter needle or ball valve connecting the >>> two sides, as there is no particular requirement for speed of equalization, >>> and in fact the smaller flow area is safer in the event of something >>> leaking. The rules indicate that no possible failure by design should be >>> capable of raising the interior pressure 1 atm, so really, the only reason >>> to need a high volume OPV is if some lower pressure than that caused by >>> some sort of failure could potentially unseat a dome, hatch or other >>> fixture with limited capability to withstand internal pressure, in a way >>> that is both potentially dangerous and can't otherwise be addressed in >>> design. The other possibility is if you want to accommodate a salvage >>> blowdown at depth as a flooding control measure, and then be able to v! ent >>> that excess pressure on the way up, in which case a high flow valve is >>> helpful, but I would still pay particular attention to how one might >>> accommodate a failure of such a valve to reseat. >>> Sean >>> >>> >>> On February 28, 2016 8:57:54 AM MST, hank pronk via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Brian, >>> Where to put the relief valve, in my opinion it should stay on the store >>> shelf lol. I have a vent valve in the hatch, it is a 1\4 inch valve. If >>> you have a 1\2 psi relief valve and you want it to open at the surface, >>> what is the point in having it? You want a relief valve to prevent your >>> hatch blowing off or ports popping off. Well if your at the surface it is >>> to late, the relief valve needs to open on the way to the surface. >>> That means you need to surface super slow and stop at just the right depth >>> and wait for the valve to vent off pressure before you continue to the >>> surface. So if your going to put a relief valve in you best go big, like >>> Emile and Alec have or it will b! e like waiting for a giant inner tube to >>> deflate that has one pound of air pressure in it. Your sub does not need >>> a relief valve, can't hurt but no need in my mind, because you have small >>> bolted ports and a good hatch securing system. It would be different if >>> you had a big dome that was not strapped on like Gamma has. >>> We talked a while back about this and I remember Alec talking about >>> rubber straps holding the hatch down. Now that is how I think it should be >>> done. As long as there is catch so the hatch can only open an inch or two. >>> >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, February 27, 2016 11:20 PM, Bri! an Cox via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> I guess if the relief valve is more than a couple of feet below the >>> water line, that would be a 1/2 psi per foot, which would render the valve >>> superfluous. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Accep! table cabin pressure swing >>> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 17:36:06 +1300 >>> >>> I know Emile has had it working but is it possible for the O?ring to >>> dislodge with flow. I think the the O?ring should be more captive like in >>> a dovetail groove in Parker book. It is nice and simple but it should be >>> tested at different pressures and flows. Comments? >>> Hugh >>> >>> *From:* Personal_Subme! rsibles [mailto: >>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan James via >>> Personal_Submersibles >>> *Sent:* Sunday, 28 February 2016 7:59 a.m. >>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing >>> >>> I sent this attachment & a couple of pictures but I haven't seen it yet, >>> so here is just the attachment only. >>> This could be adapted in to some sort of snorkel for air on the surface. >>> Alan >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *Sent:* Sunday, February 28, 2016 7:41 AM >>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing >>> >>> The problem with that valve is that it's just got a 1/4" diameter, and >>> you really want it to handle large volumes. Emile and I as mentioned built >>> our own and they're really easy to make. Interestingly we made them >>> independently but what we came up with is identical. I know Emile posted >>> his design here a while back, so it must be somewhere in the archives. I >>> never made a drawing of mine, just made the actual valve directly since >>> it's so straightforward. It's machined from a SS round and consists of just >>> two parts. The main body is a cylinder with a bunch of holes drilled >>> through it, and one central hole for the stem. This cylinder is welded into >>> the hull. The other part is the cap, a shorter length cut from the same >>> solid round but with an O ring groove around the ed! ge and no holes. The >>> stem goes through the body and screws into the cap. You put a spring on the >>> stem and a wing nut to adjust the cracking pressure. That's it. If interior >>> pressure is stronger that the spring, the cap lifts and in so doing opens >>> all the holes. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Brian, see McMaster Carr part number 4620K41. This has a 1 psi cracking >>> pressure, not 0.5 psi that I mentioned earlier. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, February 25, 2016, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Cliff, W! here did you find that 1/2 psi relief valve? >>> >>> Brian Cox >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing >>> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 19:05:00 -0600 >>> Jon for my boat, I have a pressure relief valve with a 1/2 psi cracking >>> pressure to vent pressure while on the surface. I have a high cabin >>> pressure alarm that triggers! at 20 psia (5.3 psig) and a cabin lower >>> pressure alarm set at 12 psia (-2.7 psig). In the PLC I also record and >>> display the cabin pressure at the time the hatch is closed and log all >>> alarm states every second. >>> >>> I have never had either a high or low cabin pressure alarm while >>> diving. I have had elevated cabin pressure caused by accidently having the >>> backup manual O2 value open and a leak in an air fitting on anther occasion. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 1! :12 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> I think this is somewhat subjective but what is general consensus on >>> maximum cabin pressure swing (higher/lower) relative to hatch closing at >>> the start of a dive before setting off alarms? My thought is that an alarm >>> should sound well before any point of emergency. I'm considering sounding >>> a warning at 2psi +/- and an alarm at 4psi +/- but I'm not sure if this is >>> too strict. >>> >>> Jon >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 29 09:09:06 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 14:09:06 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing In-Reply-To: References: <20160227222016.E6FDFBF@m0087792.ppops.net> <1448026081.453925.1456675074796.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <02860010-291f-4141-9610-0e7fbd618aad@email.android.com> <13168388.549823.1456685103888.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: didn't answer all the questions... No, I haven't tested how much pressure will blow off the dome, nor am I going to. The dome is held on with an aluminium retaining ring and 24 (ish? cant remember) M6 bolts. I wouldn't want to damage the dome or the ring in a test. It was very awkward to machine the ring. I just keep a close eye on cabin pressure. Flicking the compressor on instantly reduces cabin pressure. Ive never let it get to more than about 1/4psi over, but a 3-4 second burst on the compressor gets rid of that. I find I tend to get a little overpressure before the scrubber kicks in properly. Once CO2 has stabilised I don't really need to fiddle with anything. It just sorts itself out. Its also handy for a pre launch vacuum test. regards James On 29 February 2016 at 13:58, James Frankland wrote: > Hi Sean, > > Its the baby brother of Hanks. Same thing but a bit smaller. Cornelius > Compressor. Googling a bit, it seems they came out of WW2 era aircraft and > were used for moving gun turrets. > > 24v. Pumps to 1500psi. I have it T'd into the aft main HP line with a > check valve inline. > > That's about all I know about it, but it seems really good. > > Regards > James > > > On 29 February 2016 at 13:36, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> I'd be interested to learn more about that compressor. Is that the same >> as the one Hank has in Gamma, or something different? >> >> On the relief valve, I suppose one could make it code compliant by piping >> your cabin air to it through a shutoff, versus simply allowing the cabin >> air to flow through. Would have to be a big valve to get the flow you need >> though. >> >> Have you done a test to see how much internal pressure it takes to unseat >> the dome? Also, how quickly can that compressor drop the cabin pressure? >> >> Sean >> >> >> On February 29, 2016 3:02:46 AM MST, James Frankland via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> With regards to the valve coming unseated, or dislodging. I made mine >>> with a wing nut on the shaft. Means I can adjust the cracking pressure, >>> and bolt it tight in the event of a leak or excessive flow, such as >>> towing. It feels a little vulnerable on the top and I wish id put a guard >>> around it. Could have had a few more holes as well. I have a dome that >>> is only retained at the edge, so I need the valve. But, I am in agreement >>> with Hank, in the event of an uncontrolled ascent and overpressure >>> situation, im not sure it would vent quick enough. I now have a high power >>> compressor that Hank gave me that vents outside at the flick of a switch. >>> I much prefer this. Pics attached. >>> >>> kind regards >>> James >>> >>> ? >>> ? >>> >>> On 28 February 2016 at 18:45, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> G.L. says that "pipes leading through the pressure hull wall are to be >>>> fitted >>>> with two shut off devices, one of which is to be located immediately at >>>> the >>>> hull wall" >>>> So the overpressure valve would be ! one valve & G.L. would require >>>> one more. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From:* Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> *Sent:* Monday, ! February 29, 2016 7:03 AM >>>> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing >>>> >>>> The requirements only state that some means be provided of equalizing >>>> pressure on both sides of a hatch prior to opening. To me, this reads like >>>> something as simple as a small diameter needle or ball valve connecting the >>>> two sides, as there is no particular requirement for speed of equalization, >>>> and in fact the smaller flow area is safer in the event of something >>>> leaking. The rules indicate that no possible failure by design should be >>>> capable of raising the interior pressure 1 atm, so really, the only reason >>>> to need a high volume OPV is if some lower pressure than that caused by >>>> some sort of failure could potentially unseat a dome, hatch or other >>>> fixture with limited capability to withstand internal pressure, in a way >>>> that is both potentially dangerous and can't otherwise be addressed in >>>> design. The other possibility is if you want to accommodate a salvage >>>> blowdown at depth as a flooding control measure, and then be able to v! ent >>>> that excess pressure on the way up, in which case a high flow valve is >>>> helpful, but I would still pay particular attention to how one might >>>> accommodate a failure of such a valve to reseat. >>>> Sean >>>> >>>> >>>> On February 28, 2016 8:57:54 AM MST, hank pronk via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Brian, >>>> Where to put the relief valve, in my opinion it should stay on the >>>> store shelf lol. I have a vent valve in the hatch, it is a 1\4 inch >>>> valve. If you have a 1\2 psi relief valve and you want it to open at the >>>> surface, what is the point in having it? You want a relief valve to >>>> prevent your hatch blowing off or ports popping off. Well if your at the >>>> surface it is to late, the relief valve needs to open on the way to the surface. >>>> That means you need to surface super slow and stop at just the right depth >>>> and wait for the valve to vent off pressure before you continue to the >>>> surface. So if your going to put a relief valve in you best go big, like >>>> Emile and Alec have or it will b! e like waiting for a giant inner tube to >>>> deflate that has one pound of air pressure in it. Your sub does not need >>>> a relief valve, can't hurt but no need in my mind, because you have small >>>> bolted ports and a good hatch securing system. It would be different if >>>> you had a big dome that was not strapped on like Gamma has. >>>> We talked a while back about this and I remember Alec talking about >>>> rubber straps holding the hatch down. Now that is how I think it should be >>>> done. As long as there is catch so the hatch can only open an inch or two. >>>> >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> >>>> On Saturday, February 27, 2016 11:20 PM, Bri! an Cox via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> I guess if the relief valve is more than a couple of feet below the >>>> water line, that would be a 1/2 psi per foot, which would render the valve >>>> superfluous. >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> >>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Accep! table cabin pressure swing >>>> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 17:36:06 +1300 >>>> >>>> I know Emile has had it working but is it possible for the O?ring to >>>> dislodge with flow. I think the the O?ring should be more captive like in >>>> a dovetail groove in Parker book. It is nice and simple but it should be >>>> tested at different pressures and flows. Comments? >>>> Hugh >>>> >>>> *From:* Personal_Subme! rsibles [mailto: >>>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan James via >>>> Personal_Submersibles >>>> *Sent:* Sunday, 28 February 2016 7:59 a.m. >>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing >>>> >>>> I sent this attachment & a couple of pictures but I haven't seen it yet, >>>> so here is just the attachment only. >>>> This could be adapted in to some sort of snorkel for air on the surface. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From:* Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> *Sent:* Sunday, February 28, 2016 7:41 AM >>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing >>>> >>>> The problem with that valve is that it's just got a 1/4" diameter, and >>>> you really want it to handle large volumes. Emile and I as mentioned built >>>> our own and they're really easy to make. Interestingly we made them >>>> independently but what we came up with is identical. I know Emile posted >>>> his design here a while back, so it must be somewhere in the archives. I >>>> never made a drawing of mine, just made the actual valve directly since >>>> it's so straightforward. It's machined from a SS round and consists of just >>>> two parts. The main body is a cylinder with a bunch of holes drilled >>>> through it, and one central hole for the stem. This cylinder is welded into >>>> the hull. The other part is the cap, a shorter length cut from the same >>>> solid round but with an O ring groove around the ed! ge and no holes. The >>>> stem goes through the body and screws into the cap. You put a spring on the >>>> stem and a wing nut to adjust the cracking pressure. That's it. If interior >>>> pressure is stronger that the spring, the cap lifts and in so doing opens >>>> all the holes. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Alec >>>> >>>> On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Brian, see McMaster Carr part number 4620K41. This has a 1 psi >>>> cracking pressure, not 0.5 psi that I mentioned earlier. >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thursday, February 25, 2016, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> Cliff, W! here did you find that 1/2 psi relief valve? >>>> >>>> Brian Cox >>>> >>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acceptable cabin pressure swing >>>> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 19:05:00 -0600 >>>> Jon for my boat, I have a pressure relief valve with a 1/2 psi cracking >>>> pressure to vent pressure while on the surface. I have a high cabin >>>> pressure alarm that triggers! at 20 psia (5.3 psig) and a cabin lower >>>> pressure alarm set at 12 psia (-2.7 psig). In the PLC I also record and >>>> display the cabin pressure at the time the hatch is closed and log all >>>> alarm states every second. >>>> >>>> I have never had either a high or low cabin pressure alarm while >>>> diving. I have had elevated cabin pressure caused by accidently having the >>>> backup manual O2 value open and a leak in an air fitting on anther occasion. >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 1! :12 PM, Jon Wallace via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> I think this is somewhat subjective but what is general consensus on >>>> maximum cabin pressure swing (higher/lower) relative to hatch closing at >>>> the start of a dive before setting off alarms? My thought is that an alarm >>>> should sound well before any point of emergency. I'm considering sounding >>>> a warning at 2psi +/- and an alarm at 4psi +/- but I'm not sure if this is >>>> too strict. >>>> >>>> Jon >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 29 13:38:09 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 19:38:09 +0100 (MET) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euronaut's new lights In-Reply-To: <20160228233956.E6FF600@m0087792.ppops.net> References: <20160228233956.E6FF600@m0087792.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1456771089771.228033.1d3f25d520145637bee0a78098344e363699bdad@spica.telekom.de> they are called Lopolight. But wait one season for our results after diving.. http://www.lopolight.com/ They are very expensive too.. -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euronaut's new lights Datum: 2016-02-29T08:42:49+0100 Von: "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" An: "PSubs" Carsten, Are those new navigation lights something that you guys made? or adapted from some existing lights? Brian Cox -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 29 14:07:14 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 20:07:14 +0100 (MET) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bigger submarine for Sale In-Reply-To: <20160228233956.E6FF600@m0087792.ppops.net> References: <20160228233956.E6FF600@m0087792.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1456772834757.241912.883e6cb5d838e9c2e33a4bb1205c2c5f0c18afd6@spica.telekom.de> Nearly fully operational atomic submarine for sale. Needs only a layer of fresh paint and some new fuelsticks for the reactor to replace the broken ones. Potential buyers contact direct the the russian navy.. http://i48.fastpic.ru/thumb/2015/0422/f2/fab84c328a890e8bc2afb6a0936343f2.jpeg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 29 14:08:22 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 14:08:22 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euronaut's new lights In-Reply-To: <1456771089771.228033.1d3f25d520145637bee0a78098344e363699bdad@spica.telekom.de> References: <20160228233956.E6FF600@m0087792.ppops.net> <1456771089771.228033.1d3f25d520145637bee0a78098344e363699bdad@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: Looked them up, and OUCH. About USD400 each. Carsten wasn't kidding. Best, Alec On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 1:38 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > they are called Lopolight. But wait one season for our results after > diving.. > > > > http://www.lopolight.com/ > > > > They are very expensive too.. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original-Nachricht----- > > Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euronaut's new lights > > Datum: 2016-02-29T08:42:49+0100 > > Von: "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > An: "PSubs" > > > > > > > Carsten, Are those new navigation lights something that you guys > made? or adapted from some existing lights? > > Brian Cox > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 29 14:29:02 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 11:29:02 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euronaut's new lights Message-ID: <20160229112902.1E7BAB4E@m0087793.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 29 14:58:56 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 19:58:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euronaut's new lights In-Reply-To: <20160229112902.1E7BAB4E@m0087793.ppops.net> References: <20160229112902.1E7BAB4E@m0087793.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1945969788.1189932.1456775936288.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,I was just going to use my wide angled flood lights (oil compensated) on a lower power & witha red & green acrylic lense. I will be having the LED controller inside the hull.Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2016 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euronaut's new lights I wonder what is so great about them????? I was thinking of drilling out some acrylic and potting LEDs inside for navigation lights.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euronaut's new lights Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 14:08:22 -0500 Looked them up, and OUCH. About USD400 each. Carsten wasn't kidding. Best, Alec On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 1:38 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: they are called Lopolight. But wait one season for our results after diving.. ?http://www.lopolight.com/?They are very expensive too.. ????-----Original-Nachricht-----Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euronaut's new lightsDatum: 2016-02-29T08:42:49+0100Von: "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" An: "PSubs" ???Carsten,??????? Are those new navigation lights something that you guys made??? or adapted from some existing lights??Brian Cox _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 29 15:02:11 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 20:02:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bigger submarine for Sale In-Reply-To: <1456772834757.241912.883e6cb5d838e9c2e33a4bb1205c2c5f0c18afd6@spica.telekom.de> References: <20160228233956.E6FF600@m0087792.ppops.net> <1456772834757.241912.883e6cb5d838e9c2e33a4bb1205c2c5f0c18afd6@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <439550280.1226832.1456776131214.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Maybe put some sails up instead of nuclear power& it would make a good mobile home or underwaterhabitat.Alan From: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2016 8:07 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bigger submarine for Sale ?Nearly fully operational atomic submarine for sale. ?Needs only a layer of fresh paint and some new fuelsticks for the reactor to replace the broken ones. ?Potential buyers contact direct the the russian navy..?http://i48.fastpic.ru/thumb/2015/0422/f2/fab84c328a890e8bc2afb6a0936343f2.jpeg?? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 29 14:57:18 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 14:57:18 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euronaut's new lights In-Reply-To: References: <20160228233956.E6FF600@m0087792.ppops.net> <1456771089771.228033.1d3f25d520145637bee0a78098344e363699bdad@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <3DCD6545-5DA4-4BD8-82F0-F5EBFFDC66A4@optonline.net> The Lopo lights at rated for 600 m. A full setup for a vessel under 20 m with the special sub Strobe is about $2,300. John K. (203) 414-1000 Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 29, 2016, at 2:08 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Looked them up, and OUCH. About USD400 each. Carsten wasn't kidding. > > Best, > > Alec > >> On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 1:38 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> they are called Lopolight. But wait one season for our results after diving.. >> >> >> >> http://www.lopolight.com/ >> >> >> >> They are very expensive too.. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original-Nachricht----- >> >> Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euronaut's new lights >> >> Datum: 2016-02-29T08:42:49+0100 >> >> Von: "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" >> >> An: "PSubs" >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Carsten, Are those new navigation lights something that you guys made? or adapted from some existing lights? >> >> Brian Cox >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 29 15:38:48 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 21:38:48 +0100 (MET) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euronaut's new lights In-Reply-To: <20160229112902.1E7BAB4E@m0087793.ppops.net> References: <20160229112902.1E7BAB4E@m0087793.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1456778328624.992986.41d7316438e3a87c16d13dad7bc798b056018191@spica.telekom.de> In europe you can use only positionlight which have a certificate. Waterpolice ask me allready about my lamps (first generation were in the optronicmast - which slides into the sail at day and surface station) - so they are not vissble at daylight. I found only two types which may fullfill both roles - certificate and submersible. This type is very nice - a pressure cylinder made from real glas - but may need a glyzerine fill up: http://www.toplicht.de/de/shop/lampe-leuchte-und-laterne/positionslampen-und-navigationslichter/peters-und-bey/led-positionslaterne-aluminium-pb-580 This type is complete filled with resin: http://www.lopolight.com/ But I sealed the cable entrance additional - i am not sure if the water pressure can follow the cable into the resin.. In general may position lamps can be just filled up with glyzerine or silikon liquid. -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euronaut's new lights Datum: 2016-02-29T20:32:26+0100 Von: "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" I wonder what is so great about them? I was thinking of drilling out some acrylic and potting LEDs inside for navigation lights. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euronaut's new lights Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 14:08:22 -0500 Looked them up, and OUCH. About USD400 each. Carsten wasn't kidding. Best, Alec On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 1:38 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: they are called Lopolight. But wait one season for our results after diving.. http://www.lopolight.com/ They are very expensive too.. -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euronaut's new lights Datum: 2016-02-29T08:42:49+0100 Von: "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > An: "PSubs" > Carsten, Are those new navigation lights something that you guys made? or adapted from some existing lights? Brian Cox _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 29 15:47:07 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 21:47:07 +0100 (MET) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euronaut's new lights In-Reply-To: <3DCD6545-5DA4-4BD8-82F0-F5EBFFDC66A4@optonline.net> References: <20160228233956.E6FF600@m0087792.ppops.net> <1456771089771.228033.1d3f25d520145637bee0a78098344e363699bdad@spica.telekom.de> <3DCD6545-5DA4-4BD8-82F0-F5EBFFDC66A4@optonline.net> Message-ID: <1456778827854.994350.5b692be08a4ff930148c313a94465293adda40f5@spica.telekom.de> Hmm. Toplight 245 Anchor Light 215 Sternlight 230 Strobelight abt. 250 Portside light 215 Starboard light. 215 1370 Euro - 1500 USD But on a 1-3 seater Psub you can run with just One Anchor light and one combination Position ligh red and green Together 215 + 239 = 454 Euro - 500 USD -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euronaut's new lights Datum: 2016-02-29T21:21:36+0100 Von: "John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" The Lopo lights at rated for 600 m. A full setup for a vessel under 20 m with the special sub Strobe is about $2,300. John K. (203) 414-1000 Sent from my iPhone On Feb 29, 2016, at 2:08 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: Looked them up, and OUCH. About USD400 each. Carsten wasn't kidding. Best, Alec On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 1:38 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: they are called Lopolight. But wait one season for our results after diving.. http://www.lopolight.com/ They are very expensive too.. -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euronaut's new lights Datum: 2016-02-29T08:42:49+0100 Von: "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > An: "PSubs" > Carsten, Are those new navigation lights something that you guys made? or adapted from some existing lights? Brian Cox _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 29 17:53:40 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 23:53:40 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euronaut's new lights In-Reply-To: <1456778827854.994350.5b692be08a4ff930148c313a94465293adda40f5@spica.telekom.de> References: <20160228233956.E6FF600@m0087792.ppops.net> <1456771089771.228033.1d3f25d520145637bee0a78098344e363699bdad@spica.telekom.de> <3DCD6545-5DA4-4BD8-82F0-F5EBFFDC66A4@optonline.net> <1456778827854.994350.5b692be08a4ff930148c313a94465293adda40f5@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: Hi Carsten thanks for bringing this subject up. where did you find these rules for ligthing subs? international or european or german ones? -i tried in colreg rules online but could not find text for subs travelling on surface -I found a reference to sub on some of the more comprehensive summary drawings showing all sorts of vessels ( http://www.sentinelpressllc.com/colregsnavigationlights.html). Subs to come in with left green side lights, as well as 3 mast lights white 225? /amber 360? /white 225? -then the colreg rules for vertical separation of lights seem to say lower mast light 2m above deck mini, then other two lights at least 1m from each other (2m if boat over 20m long) all in all this makes a christmas tree 4 m high from top deck... -then also some online chat talking about exceptions for subs for height above water. for my litttle 6m boat I was planning to use off the shelf lights (2nm) and fit it in the acrylic tube which serves as mast and buoy (which i found the inspiration for looking at your videos!!), with its own power and IR remote switch but it is only 1m long, not 4... regards Antoine On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 9:47 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hmm. > > > > Toplight 245 > > Anchor Light 215 > > Sternlight 230 > > Strobelight abt. 250 > > Portside light 215 > > Starboard light. 215 > > > > 1370 Euro - 1500 USD > > > > > > But on a 1-3 seater Psub you can run with just > > One Anchor light and one combination Position ligh red and green > > Together 215 + 239 = 454 Euro - 500 USD > > > > > > > > -----Original-Nachricht----- > > Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euronaut's new lights > > Datum: 2016-02-29T21:21:36+0100 > > Von: "John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > > > > > > The Lopo lights at rated for 600 m. A full setup for a vessel under 20 m > with the special sub Strobe is about $2,300. > > John K. > (203) 414-1000 > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 29, 2016, at 2:08 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Looked them up, and OUCH. About USD400 each. Carsten wasn't kidding. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 1:38 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> they are called Lopolight. But wait one season for our results after >> diving.. >> >> >> >> http://www.lopolight.com/ >> >> >> >> They are very expensive too.. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original-Nachricht----- >> >> Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euronaut's new lights >> >> Datum: 2016-02-29T08:42:49+0100 >> >> Von: "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> >> An: "PSubs" >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Carsten, Are those new navigation lights something that you guys >> made? or adapted from some existing lights? >> >> Brian Cox >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 29 18:23:12 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 07:23:12 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bigger submarine for Sale In-Reply-To: <439550280.1226832.1456776131214.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160228233956.E6FF600@m0087792.ppops.net> <1456772834757.241912.883e6cb5d838e9c2e33a4bb1205c2c5f0c18afd6@spica.telekom.de> <439550280.1226832.1456776131214.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56D4D2E0.3030800@archivale.com> Is that really a nuclear sub? Looks like one of their diesel type boats. Marc On 3/1/2016 4:02 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Maybe put some sails up instead of nuclear power > & it would make a good mobile home or underwater > habitat. > Alan > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 1, 2016 8:07 AM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bigger submarine for Sale > > Nearly fully operational atomic submarine for sale. > Needs only a layer of fresh paint and some new fuelsticks for the > reactor to replace the broken ones. > Potential buyers contact direct the the russian navy.. > http://i48.fastpic.ru/thumb/2015/0422/f2/fab84c328a890e8bc2afb6a0936343f2.jpeg > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 29 19:12:57 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 19:12:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euronaut's new lights In-Reply-To: References: <20160228233956.E6FF600@m0087792.ppops.net> <1456771089771.228033.1d3f25d520145637bee0a78098344e363699bdad@spica.telekom.de> <3DCD6545-5DA4-4BD8-82F0-F5EBFFDC66A4@optonline.net> <1456778827854.994350.5b692be08a4ff930148c313a94465293adda40f5@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <26cb861f.445c.1532f8547c8.Webtop.44@optonline.net> Antoine ? Colregs allow for a vessel under 40' to display a combo red and green? and an all around (360 deg)?white to replace the masthead and stern lights. ? John L. (203)414-1000 ? ? On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 05:53 PM, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hi Carsten? thanks for bringing this subject up.? where did you find these rules for ligthing subs? ?international or european or german ones?? -i tried in colreg rules online but ?could not find text for subs travelling on surface -I found a reference to sub on some of the more comprehensive summary drawings showing all sorts of vessels (http://www.sentinelpressllc.com/colregsnavigationlights.html ). Subs to come in with left green side lights, as well as 3 mast lights white 225? /amber 360? /white 225? -then the colreg rules for vertical separation of lights seem to say lower mast light 2m above deck mini, then other two lights at least 1m from each other (2m if boat over 20m long) all in all this makes a christmas tree 4 m high from top deck... -then also some online chat talking about exceptions for subs for height above water.? for my litttle 6m boat I was planning to use off the shelf lights (2nm) and fit it in the acrylic tube which serves as mast and buoy (which i found the inspiration for looking at your videos!!), with its own power and IR remote switch but it is only 1m long, not 4... regards Antoine On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 9:47 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hmm. ? Toplight????????????? 245 Anchor Light???? ? 215 Sternlight?????????? 230 Strobelight?? abt. 250 Portside light????? 215 Starboard light.?? 215 ? 1370 Euro?? - 1500? USD ? ? But on a 1-3 seater Psub you can run with just One Anchor light and one combination Position ligh red and green Together 215 +? 239 = 454 Euro - 500 USD ? ? ? -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euronaut's new lights Datum: 2016-02-29T21:21:36+0100 Von: "John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles" > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > ? ? ? The Lopo lights at rated for 600 m. A full setup for a vessel under 20 m with the special sub Strobe is about $2,300. ? John K. (203) 414-1000 Sent from my iPhone On Feb 29, 2016, at 2:08 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looked them up, and OUCH. About USD400 each. Carsten wasn't kidding. ? Best, Alec On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 1:38 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: they are called Lopolight. But wait one season for our results after diving.. ? http://www.lopolight.com/ ? They are very expensive too.. ? ? ? ? -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euronaut's new lights Datum: 2016-02-29T08:42:49+0100 Von: "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" > An: "PSubs" > ? ? ? Carsten,??????? Are those new navigation lights something that you guys made??? or adapted from some existing lights? ? Brian Cox _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: