[PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub for 2 people - classification

Wed Jul 20 11:19:47 EDT 2016

Kamil - the Swiss Lloyds process is similar -  but simplified for small 
size boats.
Most test can be done by the owner/builder and third parties.
Also SL accept test by other Classifikations. So you can make a pressure 
test of the hull with DNV-GL or TÜV or Dekra,
Dome Test with ABS, SL factory test and measurings like from Emiles domes. 
etc. Other class normaly accept only there own tests.

You have also to show your drawings, material certificates etc., pressure 
and stability calculations etc. 
But Swis Lloyds for example accept also pressure test in the 
natur/lake/open sea or in pressure boilers designed for other purpose.

The supervisor will only come may two times. At the beginning of 
construction/design to guide you to the basic rules and during
the first operational trails.During this first meeting the supervisor will 
decide if the sub concept has the possibility to get a Saftey Certificate 
or not. A sub with blows his ballast tanks with propane out or were the 
passenger can not reach the emergency blow valve - will maybe not get under 
the process..

You have to write a own Manual and handbook about the sub which contains 
all technical and practical information about your sub and handling. This 
final acceptance test will include check of all system, special the 
emergency systems like emergency bouy, drop weights, Life support system, 
but also a simple stability test. All test in a reduce and very practical 
way that you can do it on a simple way. For example drop plate test with 
the sub on a forklift or hangar crane with a bed madress below.

SL cost a fraction of the big class cost - about 8000 euros for a small 1-3 
seater. 
But most paperwork has to be done by yourself.

By the way SL accept not second hand propane tank subs with unkown tickness 
made from unkown material.
SL works only build in the european community.
You get an building certificate that the sub pass all test and that the sub 
and equipment is safe to operate with passengers. 
The technical rules are maybe 98% the same as on any other classification. 
So if you build technical to the DNV:GL or ABS or LR rules we are fine with 
that. Just the administraton work with the agency is reduce to the minimum 
or better the boats size.

In case you want to use the sub only for yourself and your friends - no 
classification is required at all. Safe the money.
You need the papers if you like to insurance you sub. Or maybe to sell it 
commercial.

SL offer this service - not because it is a business but it is maybe the 
only way that a homebuild or smal company build
get a saftey certificate inside a homebuild budget.

Hope this help. Carsten Naval architect and enginer, Submarine Pilot, 
Designer and Builder,  SL Supervisor

-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub for 2 pexople
Datum: 2016-07-19T23:27:32+0200
Von: "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Hi Kamil,
here are the rules of DNVGL (formerly) Germanic Lloyds.
https://rules.dnvgl.com/ServiceDocuments/dnvgl/#!/industry/1/Maritime/5/DNV%20GL%20rules%20for%20classification:%20Underwater%20technology%20(RU-UWT)
<https://rules.dnvgl.com/ServiceDocuments/dnvgl/#!/industry/1/Maritime/5/DNV%20GL%20rules%20for%20classification:%20Underwater%20technology%20(RU-UWT)>
These rules have been recently updated.
DNVL is the World's biggest certifier of submarines & is based in Hamburg.
It would probably cost you US $80 - $100,000 to go through the 
certification process.
Then there is the ongoing costs of yearly inspections, with a major 
inspection after 5 years.
Only useful if you are using a submarine commercially, a lot of their 
guidelines can be used
without paying $100,000.
Carsten, who is in Rostock Germany, was offering a certification process 
under Swiss Lloyds.
This was aimed toward amateur builders & offers an economical process.
The DNVL process is that you go in to a contract, & they give you technical 
advice for design.
Designs for the various parts (hull, electrical, ballasting, stability, 
life support) are submitted for approval.
It costs about US30,000 to get to design approval. Then they visit your 
factory to see if it is up to standard
& visit at various stages. They want to know the composition of every nut & 
bolt you use, where they came from
& whether the factory that made them had certification. They want to know 
who you have doing any of the work
and what their qualifications are. I won't give more detail, as will be 
typing all day, but it ends in the final dive test.
If you want to know any more ask. I think I have a brief summary of the 
rules somewhere.
Alan

------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Kamil Żebrowski via Personal_Submersibles 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub for 2 pexople

Anyone know how that inspection looks like from Lloyds? It is made after 
sub is made or during production?

2016-07-18 11:09 GMT+02:00 Kamil Żebrowski <zebros512 at gmail.com
<mailto:zebros512 at gmail.com> >:
  Ok, then I need look at polish regulations in term of sub. It is possible
  that it will be first registered. Also need to check all things with
  certification. I didn't think about commercial use but maybe in the
  future, who knows

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