From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 1 15:40:47 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2016 21:40:47 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] acoustic pinger frequency choice Message-ID: Hello all, I am looking after acoustic pingers to locate my sub, with the lowest frequency possible to get the longest range. However, I fear low frequency might be audible inside the sub (or giving head aches) especially given the power emitted. A youtube hearing test shows me I cant hear frequencies beyond 14kHz... so I am aiming for 16kHz Have any of you had experience with these low frequencies <16kHz in a sub? regards Antoine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 1 16:05:30 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2016 20:05:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] acoustic pinger frequency choice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1715281236.2482392.1464811530814.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Antoine,Gamma has a pinger with both 9hz and 27hz ?all I hear is a click sound, no big deal at 27hz.Hank On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 1:41 PM, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hello all,?I am looking after acoustic pingers to locate my sub, with the lowest frequency possible to get the longest range. However, I fear low frequency might be audible inside the sub (or giving head aches) especially given the power emitted.A youtube hearing test shows me I cant hear frequencies beyond 14kHz... so I am aiming for 16kHz Have any of you had experience with these low frequencies <16kHz in a sub?? regardsAntoine _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 1 19:15:55 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2016 23:15:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] acoustic pinger frequency choice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1208467218.3328662.1464822955496.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> What about this Antoine,http://desertstar.com/product/divetracker-sport/Depth rating is 1000ftRange is up to 4000ft?? Most depth sounders can shoot through the hull if the hull is fiberglass. I don't think it can shoot through acrylic. With depth sounders about 1/2" isthe maximum hull thickness, but pingers may work with a thicker fiberglass section.I had thought of the idea of having a miniature view port about an inch in diameter with a 1/2" thick?plug of fiberglass in it.?You?could thenhave your transmitting / receiving equipment inside the sub shooting through thatfiberglass port. Otherwise mount it external. One problem I can see is battery range,so you would possibly need a through hull cable supplying power to the unit.Cheers Alan From: Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2016 7:40 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] acoustic pinger frequency choice Hello all,?I am looking after acoustic pingers to locate my sub, with the lowest frequency possible to get the longest range. However, I fear low frequency might be audible inside the sub (or giving head aches) especially given the power emitted.A youtube hearing test shows me I cant hear frequencies beyond 14kHz... so I am aiming for 16kHz Have any of you had experience with these low frequencies <16kHz in a sub?? regardsAntoine _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 4 00:15:02 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 04:15:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook References: <1368943776.4992148.1465013702267.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1368943776.4992148.1465013702267.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> There have been some posts that I know I have missed of late.The last post I saw was my post on pingers, not sure if anything has come through since then.Jon has mentioned the idea of going off the email based system& using our psubs web based forum. ?? What about a Psubs Facebook page. What are the pros & cons of that? Can we some how archive the posts under topics?Alternatively if we continue on this email based system, can theemails be archived immediately so that there is a way of checkingwhether we are missing posts or not?Cheers Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 4 08:35:44 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 08:35:44 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Message-ID: <134a2f.bdc971f.44842520@aol.com> Alan, Your post on pingers was the last one I received also, so it's possible everybody is just collecting their breath. I've stayed off of facebook for security, privacy, and just to avoid the time drain. Yeah, I know it's the 21st century and all that, but Facebook has been the subject of a massive hack and probably will be again. I'll continue to avoid it as long as possible. Cheers, Jim In a message dated 6/3/2016 11:18:26 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: There have been some posts that I know I have missed of late. The last post I saw was my post on pingers, not sure if anything has come through since then. Jon has mentioned the idea of going off the email based system & using our psubs web based forum. What about a Psubs Facebook page. What are the pros & cons of that? Can we some how archive the posts under topics? Alternatively if we continue on this email based system, can the emails be archived immediately so that there is a way of checking whether we are missing posts or not? Cheers Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 4 09:25:56 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 09:25:56 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: <38af2636-316a-31ac-168d-6f68377ec99a@ohiohills.com> References: <6bty8uf3ww7i2fecqxrl7qcu.1464394672854@email.android.com> <1553742741.665367.1464396816588.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5748ff78.1314620a.8ffad.ffffa93e@mx.google.com> <38af2636-316a-31ac-168d-6f68377ec99a@ohiohills.com> Message-ID: Hi everyone, I just got introduced to a free cloud CAD program by one of the SMEs who is volunteering on Shackleton. The UI is very similar to a simplified Autocad, it seems to share a lot of the same commands. I'm sure there are limitations, but this seems to have three major things going for it; it's not too hard, it allows online collaboration between multiple designers because its in the cloud, and its FREE. https://www.onshape.com/ Best, Alec On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I have Delftship, a freebie but apparently comprehensive thing intended > for surface ship design. (It was originally called Freeships, I think.) I > have never been able to us it because the manual is damn near > incomprehensible (it doesn't use some of the terminology I'm accustomed to > seeing). If anyone can get it to do something useful, send me a > personal message! > > > Mike > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 4 16:08:46 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 22:08:46 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Remember the Moki files In-Reply-To: References: <6bty8uf3ww7i2fecqxrl7qcu.1464394672854@email.android.com> <1553742741.665367.1464396816588.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5748ff78.1314620a.8ffad.ffffa93e@mx.google.com> <38af2636-316a-31ac-168d-6f68377ec99a@ohiohills.com> Message-ID: <1465070926565.1712331.bcd0e965fe3ccd582f55b900277af17e716a653c@spica.telekom.de> For the newer members. The Moki Psub Picure files are still online: https://www.prismnet.com/~moki/subfiles.html vbr Carsten ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 4 23:08:22 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 03:08:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook In-Reply-To: <134a2f.bdc971f.44842520@aol.com> References: <134a2f.bdc971f.44842520@aol.com> Message-ID: <2145099582.5129603.1465096102432.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Jim,a number of our members identities have been used to mail out spam already, so weare not immune on this format.?A?lot of the members are already participating in submarine related Facebook activity.It's easy to post larger images. You just press a "like" button to acknowledge a post instead ofreplying. It seems more conducive to conversation.It wouldn't take any more time than the current system, less at times.?? Just floating the idea again, as Jon had previously expressed frustration?with the presentsystem from an administration perspective.As for privacy.....Is there someone interested in your private life?Alan From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 12:35 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Alan,Your post on pingers was the last one I received also, so it's possible everybody is just collecting their breath.? I've stayed off of facebook for security, privacy, and just to avoid the time drain.? Yeah, I know it's the 21st century and all that, but Facebook has been the subject of a massive hack and probably will be?again. ?I'll continue to avoid it as long as possible.Cheers,Jim?In a message dated 6/3/2016 11:18:26 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: There have been some posts that I know I have missed of late. The last post I saw was my post on pingers, not sure if anything has come through since then. Jon has mentioned the idea of going off the email based system & using our psubs web based forum. ?? What about a Psubs Facebook page. What are the pros & cons of that? Can we some how archive the posts under topics? Alternatively if we continue on this email based system, can the emails be archived immediately so that there is a way of checking whether we are missing posts or not? Cheers Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 5 00:01:18 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 00:01:18 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Message-ID: <8673ea.60ea0a88.4484fe0e@aol.com> The list is fairly short, but of rather high quality... JT In a message dated 6/4/2016 10:11:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: As for privacy.....Is there someone interested in your private life? Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 5 00:11:13 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 04:11:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook In-Reply-To: <8673ea.60ea0a88.4484fe0e@aol.com> References: <8673ea.60ea0a88.4484fe0e@aol.com> Message-ID: <227281043.4941149.1465099873594.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Jim,like the tax dept & FBI?You have obviously received my email, but I haven't! No, no ones interested in my private life. They would have to be a pretty boringindividual if they were.Cheers Alan From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook The list is fairly short, but of rather high quality...JT?In a message dated 6/4/2016 10:11:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: As for privacy.....Is there someone interested in your private life? Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 5 00:26:10 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Norm via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 00:26:10 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook In-Reply-To: <227281043.4941149.1465099873594.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <8673ea.60ea0a88.4484fe0e@aol.com> <227281043.4941149.1465099873594.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <02cc01d1bee2$63a83770$2af8a650$@suddenlink.net> Alan, ?Enquiring? minds want to ?no?. And ?hears? looking at you. With regards, Norm Parmley NSA, ASPCA, BSA, PETA, PTA, NRA, & ETC??. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 12:11 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Jim, like the tax dept & FBI? You have obviously received my email, but I haven't! No, no ones interested in my private life. They would have to be a pretty boring individual if they were. Cheers Alan _____ From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook The list is fairly short, but of rather high quality... JT In a message dated 6/4/2016 10:11:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: As for privacy.....Is there someone interested in your private life? Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 5 03:03:10 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (gbrown091 via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2016 09:03:10 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Message-ID: Hi Alan I pilot a helicopter catching game allmost everyday in the winter in fact thats what I am doing right now.I look forward to the end of each day ,but when I think of the day that I will get my sub into the water I get excited .When I tell people im building a sub the allways laugh ,I think they boring. Glen Sent from Samsung Mobile -------- Original message -------- From: Norm via Personal_Submersibles Date:2016/06/05 06:26 (GMT+02:00) To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Alan, ?Enquiring? minds want to ?no?. And ?hears? looking at you. With regards, Norm Parmley NSA, ASPCA, BSA, PETA, PTA, NRA, & ETC??. ? ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 12:11 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook ? Jim, like the tax dept & FBI? You have obviously received my email, but I haven't! No, no ones interested in my private life. They would have to be a pretty boring individual if they were. Cheers Alan ? From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook ? The list is fairly short, but of rather high quality... JT ? In a message dated 6/4/2016 10:11:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: As for privacy.....Is there someone interested in your private life? Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG-20160331-WA0005.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 133101 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG-20160426-WA0007.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 164840 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG-20160503-WA0004.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 140910 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 5 04:58:53 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 08:58:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook In-Reply-To: <02cc01d1bee2$63a83770$2af8a650$@suddenlink.net> References: <8673ea.60ea0a88.4484fe0e@aol.com> <227281043.4941149.1465099873594.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <02cc01d1bee2$63a83770$2af8a650$@suddenlink.net> Message-ID: <1296909953.5142155.1465117134009.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Norm,I travelled from New Zealand to the underwater Intervention convention inNew Orleans one year. Just prior to boarding the plane in N.Z. I was ushered in to a side room where?there were four Americans who checked me forbomb residue. I have always?suspected that because I post?about submarinesthat "submarine" is a key word that may?trigger an alert?in a computerized web monitoring system.However is Facebook going to be any less private than our current system?BTW Jim & I both have a sense of humor & any abuse is meant in jest :)Cheers Alan? From: Norm via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 4:26 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook #yiv4889956807 #yiv4889956807 -- _filtered #yiv4889956807 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv4889956807 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv4889956807 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv4889956807 #yiv4889956807 p.yiv4889956807MsoNormal, #yiv4889956807 li.yiv4889956807MsoNormal, #yiv4889956807 div.yiv4889956807MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv4889956807 a:link, #yiv4889956807 span.yiv4889956807MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4889956807 a:visited, #yiv4889956807 span.yiv4889956807MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4889956807 p.yiv4889956807msonormal0, #yiv4889956807 li.yiv4889956807msonormal0, #yiv4889956807 div.yiv4889956807msonormal0 {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv4889956807 span.yiv4889956807EmailStyle18 {color:windowtext;}#yiv4889956807 .yiv4889956807MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv4889956807 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv4889956807 div.yiv4889956807WordSection1 {}#yiv4889956807 Alan,?Enquiring? minds want to ?no?. And ?hears? looking at you.With regards,Norm ParmleyNSA, ASPCA, BSA, PETA, PTA, NRA, & ETC??. ? ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 12:11 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook ?Jim,like the tax dept & FBI?You have obviously received my email, but I haven't! No, no ones interested in my private life. They would have to be a pretty boringindividual if they were.Cheers Alan ?From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook ?The list is fairly short, but of rather high quality...JT?In a message dated 6/4/2016 10:11:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: As for privacy.....Is there someone interested in your private life?Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 5 08:00:02 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 20:00:02 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook In-Reply-To: <2145099582.5129603.1465096102432.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <134a2f.bdc971f.44842520@aol.com> <2145099582.5129603.1465096102432.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <295c4aeb-dc7c-cc66-0333-d4e3efb60f7d@archivale.com> Doesn't matter whether they are interested or not. FB is a goldfish bowl. Marc On 6/5/2016 11:08 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Jim, > a number of our members identities have been used to mail out spam > already, so we > are not immune on this format. > A lot of the members are already participating in submarine related > Facebook activity. > It's easy to post larger images. You just press a "like" button to > acknowledge a post instead of > replying. It seems more conducive to conversation. > It wouldn't take any more time than the current system, less at times. > Just floating the idea again, as Jon had previously expressed > frustration with the present > system from an administration perspective. > As for privacy.....Is there someone interested in your private life? > Alan > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* via Personal_Submersibles > *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org > *Sent:* Sunday, June 5, 2016 12:35 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook > > Alan, > Your post on pingers was the last one I received also, so it's possible > everybody is just collecting their breath. I've stayed off of facebook > for security, privacy, and just to avoid the time drain. Yeah, I know > it's the 21st century and all that, but Facebook has been the subject of > a massive hack and probably will be again. I'll continue to avoid it as > long as possible. > Cheers, > Jim > > In a message dated 6/3/2016 11:18:26 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > > There have been some posts that I know I have missed of late. > The last post I saw was my post on pingers, not sure if anything > has come through since then. > Jon has mentioned the idea of going off the email based system > & using our psubs web based forum. > What about a Psubs Facebook page. What are the pros & cons > of that? Can we some how archive the posts under topics? > Alternatively if we continue on this email based system, can the > emails be archived immediately so that there is a way of checking > whether we are missing posts or not? > Cheers Alan > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 5 10:19:02 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 09:19:02 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow! So cool. Well. I was just elected in a national campaign to head the Federation of State Medical Boards ( the national medical board organization) Not nearly as cool as helicoptering! And I'm still no where close to getting my boat in the water! You guys are still the coolest and most interesting folks I know! Greg > On Jun 5, 2016, at 2:03 AM, gbrown091 via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan > I pilot a helicopter catching game allmost everyday in the winter in fact thats what I am doing right now.I look forward to the end of each day ,but when I think of the day that I will get my sub into the water I get excited .When I tell people im building a sub the allways laugh ,I think they boring. > Glen > > > Sent from Samsung Mobile > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Norm via Personal_Submersibles > Date:2016/06/05 06:26 (GMT+02:00) > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook > > Alan, > > ?Enquiring? minds want to ?no?. And ?hears? looking at you. > > With regards, > > Norm Parmley > > NSA, ASPCA, BSA, PETA, PTA, NRA, & ETC??. > > > > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 12:11 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook > > > > Jim, > > like the tax dept & FBI? > > You have obviously received my email, but I haven't! > > No, no ones interested in my private life. They would have to be a pretty boring > > individual if they were. > > Cheers Alan > > > > From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 4:01 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook > > > > The list is fairly short, but of rather high quality... > > JT > > > > In a message dated 6/4/2016 10:11:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > > As for privacy.....Is there someone interested in your private life? > > Alan > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 5 11:49:42 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 11:49:42 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Message-ID: <41703b.58ef9321.4485a416@aol.com> Greg, Congratulations! And you thought you were busy before. Best wishes, Jim In a message dated 6/5/2016 9:19:27 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Wow! So cool. Well. I was just elected in a national campaign to head the Federation of State Medical Boards ( the national medical board organization) Not nearly as cool as helicoptering! And I'm still no where close to getting my boat in the water! You guys are still the coolest and most interesting folks I know! Greg On Jun 5, 2016, at 2:03 AM, gbrown091 via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Hi Alan I pilot a helicopter catching game allmost everyday in the winter in fact thats what I am doing right now.I look forward to the end of each day ,but when I think of the day that I will get my sub into the water I get excited .When I tell people im building a sub the allways laugh ,I think they boring. Glen Sent from Samsung Mobile -------- Original message -------- From: Norm via Personal_Submersibles Date:2016/06/05 06:26 (GMT+02:00) To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Alan, ?Enquiring? minds want to ?no?. And ?hears? looking at you. With regards, Norm Parmley NSA, ASPCA, BSA, PETA, PTA, NRA, & ETC??. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 12:11 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Jim, like the tax dept & FBI? You have obviously received my email, but I haven't! No, no ones interested in my private life. They would have to be a pretty boring individual if they were. Cheers Alan ____________________________________ From: via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > To: _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook The list is fairly short, but of rather high quality... JT In a message dated 6/4/2016 10:11:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time, _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) writes: As for privacy.....Is there someone interested in your private life? Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles = _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 5 13:30:02 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (gbrown091 via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2016 19:30:02 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Message-ID: <396lwyel4ap5xd19t4eq0xy4.1465147802412@email.android.com> Well done.Greg Sent from Samsung Mobile -------- Original message -------- From: via Personal_Submersibles Date:2016/06/05 17:49 (GMT+02:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Greg, Congratulations!? And you thought you were busy before.? Best wishes, Jim ? In a message dated 6/5/2016 9:19:27 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Wow! So cool.? Well. I was just elected in a national campaign to head the Federation of State Medical Boards ( the national medical board organization) Not nearly as cool as helicoptering! And I'm still no where close to getting my boat in the water! You guys are still the coolest and most interesting folks I know! Greg On Jun 5, 2016, at 2:03 AM, gbrown091 via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan I pilot a helicopter catching game allmost everyday in the winter in fact thats what I am doing right now.I look forward to the end of each day ,but when I think of the day that I will get my sub into the water I get excited .When I tell people im building a sub the allways laugh ,I think they boring. Glen Sent from Samsung Mobile -------- Original message -------- From: Norm via Personal_Submersibles Date:2016/06/05 06:26 (GMT+02:00) To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Alan, ?Enquiring? minds want to ?no?. And ?hears? looking at you. With regards, Norm Parmley NSA, ASPCA, BSA, PETA, PTA, NRA, & ETC??. ? ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 12:11 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook ? Jim, like the tax dept & FBI? You have obviously received my email, but I haven't! No, no ones interested in my private life. They would have to be a pretty boring individual if they were. Cheers Alan ? From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook ? The list is fairly short, but of rather high quality... JT ? In a message dated 6/4/2016 10:11:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: As for privacy.....Is there someone interested in your private life? Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles = _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 5 13:30:10 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 17:30:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook In-Reply-To: <41703b.58ef9321.4485a416@aol.com> References: <41703b.58ef9321.4485a416@aol.com> Message-ID: <1513449816.1455461.1465147810251.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> It is a?toss up,?which is a cooler toy to have between submarine and helicopter. ? I think there may be less Psubs than personal helicopters.?Helicopters are way cool though.Hank On Sunday, June 5, 2016 9:50 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,Congratulations!? And you thought you were busy before.? Best wishes,Jim?In a message dated 6/5/2016 9:19:27 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Wow! So cool.? Well. I was just elected in a national campaign to head the Federation of State Medical Boards ( the national medical board organization) Not nearly as cool as helicoptering! And I'm still no where close to getting my boat in the water! You guys are still the coolest and most interesting folks I know! Greg On Jun 5, 2016, at 2:03 AM, gbrown091 via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan I pilot a helicopter catching game allmost everyday in the winter in fact thats what I am doing right now.I look forward to the end of each day ,but when I think of the day that I will get my sub into the water I get excited .When I tell people im building a sub the allways laugh ,I think they boring. Glen Sent from Samsung Mobile -------- Original message -------- From: Norm via Personal_Submersibles Date:2016/06/05 06:26 (GMT+02:00) To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Alan, ?Enquiring? minds want to ?no?. And ?hears? looking at you. With regards, Norm Parmley NSA, ASPCA, BSA, PETA, PTA, NRA, & ETC??. ? ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 12:11 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook ? Jim, like the tax dept & FBI? You have obviously received my email, but I haven't! No, no ones interested in my private life. They would have to be a pretty boring individual if they were. Cheers Alan ? From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook ? The list is fairly short, but of rather high quality... JT ? In a message dated 6/4/2016 10:11:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: As for privacy.....Is there someone interested in your private life? Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles = _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 5 15:15:05 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 15:15:05 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook In-Reply-To: <1513449816.1455461.1465147810251.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <41703b.58ef9321.4485a416@aol.com> <1513449816.1455461.1465147810251.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Glen, glad you specified in photos what kind of game you're catching, cause I thought about buying a helo once ;) ~ Douglas S. On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 1:30 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > It is a toss up, which is a cooler toy to have between submarine and > helicopter. I think there may be less Psubs than personal helicopters. > Helicopters are way cool though. > Hank > > > On Sunday, June 5, 2016 9:50 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Greg, > Congratulations! And you thought you were busy before. > Best wishes, > Jim > > In a message dated 6/5/2016 9:19:27 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > > Wow! > So cool. > Well. I was just elected in a national campaign to head the Federation of > State Medical Boards ( the national medical board organization) > Not nearly as cool as helicoptering! And I'm still no where close to > getting my boat in the water! > > You guys are still the coolest and most interesting folks I know! > Greg > > On Jun 5, 2016, at 2:03 AM, gbrown091 via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Alan > I pilot a helicopter catching game allmost everyday in the winter in fact > thats what I am doing right now.I look forward to the end of each day ,but > when I think of the day that I will get my sub into the water I get excited > .When I tell people im building a sub the allways laugh ,I think they > boring. > Glen > > > Sent from Samsung Mobile > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Norm via Personal_Submersibles > Date:2016/06/05 06:26 (GMT+02:00) > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook > > Alan, > ?Enquiring? minds want to ?no?. And ?hears? looking at you. > With regards, > Norm Parmley > NSA, ASPCA, BSA, PETA, PTA, NRA, & ETC??. > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [ > mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org > ] *On Behalf Of *Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Sunday, June 5, 2016 12:11 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook > > Jim, > like the tax dept & FBI? > You have obviously received my email, but I haven't! > No, no ones interested in my private life. They would have to be a pretty > boring > individual if they were. > Cheers Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* via Personal_Submersibles > *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org > *Sent:* Sunday, June 5, 2016 4:01 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook > > The list is fairly short, but of rather high quality... > JT > > In a message dated 6/4/2016 10:11:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > > As for privacy.....Is there someone interested in your private life? > Alan > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > = > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 5 20:59:48 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 00:59:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2145165853.5403035.1465174788472.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> That's impressive Greg,you could always justify buying a submarine as an escapefrom business pressure.Alan From: Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 6, 2016 2:19 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Wow!So cool.?Well. I was just elected in a national campaign to head the Federation of State Medical Boards ( the national medical board organization)Not nearly as cool as helicoptering! And I'm still no where close to getting my boat in the water! You guys are still the coolest and most interesting folks I know!Greg On Jun 5, 2016, at 2:03 AM, gbrown091 via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi AlanI pilot a helicopter catching game allmost everyday in the winter in fact thats what I am doing right now.I look forward to the end of each day ,but when I think of the day that I will get my sub into the water I get excited .When I tell people im building a sub the allways laugh ,I think they boring.Glen Sent from Samsung Mobile -------- Original message -------- From: Norm via Personal_Submersibles Date:2016/06/05 06:26 (GMT+02:00) To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Alan,?Enquiring? minds want to ?no?. And ?hears? looking at you.With regards,Norm ParmleyNSA, ASPCA, BSA, PETA, PTA, NRA, & ETC??. ? ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 12:11 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook ?Jim,like the tax dept & FBI?You have obviously received my email, but I haven't! No, no ones interested in my private life. They would have to be a pretty boringindividual if they were.Cheers Alan ?From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook ?The list is fairly short, but of rather high quality...JT?In a message dated 6/4/2016 10:11:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: As for privacy.....Is there someone interested in your private life?Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 5 22:41:14 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 19:41:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook In-Reply-To: <2145165853.5403035.1465174788472.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2145165853.5403035.1465174788472.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001d1bf9c$e5975a80$b0c60f80$@telus.net> Am missing something regarding the privacy issues of Face Book? I have kept everything private on my FB account. Nothing is "public" other than my existence. I only accept "friends" of people I know, or is friends with someone I know AND has an affiliation to psubing, diving, or flying. And I know that once a friend has been accepted then all his friends now also have access. I do not post anything on my FB account that I don't want made public. I only post stuff about me, not because I am self-centred, but because my family and personal friends are not for public view. I have posted a pic or two of interesting submarines and airplanes, but not even one of my cat. Basically: if you don't want it publicized then don't post it. Am I being na?ve about FB? What about Yahoo Groups, is it better? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 6:00 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook That's impressive Greg, you could always justify buying a submarine as an escape from business pressure. Alan _____ From: Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, June 6, 2016 2:19 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Wow! So cool. Well. I was just elected in a national campaign to head the Federation of State Medical Boards ( the national medical board organization) Not nearly as cool as helicoptering! And I'm still no where close to getting my boat in the water! You guys are still the coolest and most interesting folks I know! Greg On Jun 5, 2016, at 2:03 AM, gbrown091 via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Alan I pilot a helicopter catching game allmost everyday in the winter in fact thats what I am doing right now.I look forward to the end of each day ,but when I think of the day that I will get my sub into the water I get excited .When I tell people im building a sub the allways laugh ,I think they boring. Glen Sent from Samsung Mobile -------- Original message -------- From: Norm via Personal_Submersibles Date:2016/06/05 06:26 (GMT+02:00) To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Alan, ?Enquiring? minds want to ?no?. And ?hears? looking at you. With regards, Norm Parmley NSA, ASPCA, BSA, PETA, PTA, NRA, & ETC??. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 12:11 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Jim, like the tax dept & FBI? You have obviously received my email, but I haven't! No, no ones interested in my private life. They would have to be a pretty boring individual if they were. Cheers Alan _____ From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook The list is fairly short, but of rather high quality... JT In a message dated 6/4/2016 10:11:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: As for privacy.....Is there someone interested in your private life? Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 6 00:33:46 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 00:33:46 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Message-ID: <44f24d.2c8bda45.4486572a@aol.com> Good evening, Tim, The problems with Facebook that I referred to have nothing to do with what someone posts. Rather they were related to hackers breaching the servers and gaining access to members' account information. In 2010 Facebook settled a class action lawsuit (Lane v. Facebook, Inc.) stemming from Facebook posting members' private information without members' permission. Since I have never joined Facebook, I don't really know what might be included in account information. When I receive an email purportedly from the address of someone I have previously exchanged emails with, yet I can tell that person's address book has been invaded and the email is not actually from them, the vast majority of the time it is a Yahoo account. Therefore I stopped using Yahoo long ago. When I bought my present computer I was required to get a gmail address for some registration requirement (don't recall just what). I sent one email from that account and very soon began receiving online advertisements based on the content within that private email. Never used gmail again after that. I understand there is little I can do if someone personally targets me, but I try to avoid making it easy or getting caught up in a sweep. Best regards, Jim In a message dated 6/5/2016 9:41:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Am missing something regarding the privacy issues of Face Book? I have kept everything private on my FB account. Nothing is "public" other than my existence. I only accept "friends" of people I know, or is friends with someone I know AND has an affiliation to psubing, diving, or flying. And I know that once a friend has been accepted then all his friends now also have access. I do not post anything on my FB account that I don't want made public. I only post stuff about me, not because I am self-centred, but because my family and personal friends are not for public view. I have posted a pic or two of interesting submarines and airplanes, but not even one of my cat. Basically: if you don't want it publicized then don't post it. Am I being na?ve about FB? What about Yahoo Groups, is it better? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 6:00 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook That's impressive Greg, you could always justify buying a submarine as an escape from business pressure. Alan ____________________________________ From: Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > Sent: Monday, June 6, 2016 2:19 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Wow! So cool. Well. I was just elected in a national campaign to head the Federation of State Medical Boards ( the national medical board organization) Not nearly as cool as helicoptering! And I'm still no where close to getting my boat in the water! You guys are still the coolest and most interesting folks I know! Greg On Jun 5, 2016, at 2:03 AM, gbrown091 via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Hi Alan I pilot a helicopter catching game allmost everyday in the winter in fact thats what I am doing right now.I look forward to the end of each day ,but when I think of the day that I will get my sub into the water I get excited .When I tell people im building a sub the allways laugh ,I think they boring. Glen Sent from Samsung Mobile -------- Original message -------- From: Norm via Personal_Submersibles Date:2016/06/05 06:26 (GMT+02:00) To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Alan, ?Enquiring? minds want to ?no?. And ?hears? looking at you. With regards, Norm Parmley NSA, ASPCA, BSA, PETA, PTA, NRA, & ETC??. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 12:11 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Jim, like the tax dept & FBI? You have obviously received my email, but I haven't! No, no ones interested in my private life. They would have to be a pretty boring individual if they were. Cheers Alan ____________________________________ From: via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > To: _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook The list is fairly short, but of rather high quality... JT In a message dated 6/4/2016 10:11:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time, _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) writes: As for privacy.....Is there someone interested in your private life? Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 6 00:35:50 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 23:35:50 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook In-Reply-To: <41703b.58ef9321.4485a416@aol.com> References: <41703b.58ef9321.4485a416@aol.com> Message-ID: Thanks! > On Jun 5, 2016, at 10:49 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Greg, > Congratulations! And you thought you were busy before. > Best wishes, > Jim > > In a message dated 6/5/2016 9:19:27 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > Wow! > So cool. > Well. I was just elected in a national campaign to head the Federation of State Medical Boards ( the national medical board organization) > Not nearly as cool as helicoptering! And I'm still no where close to getting my boat in the water! > > You guys are still the coolest and most interesting folks I know! > Greg > >> On Jun 5, 2016, at 2:03 AM, gbrown091 via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi Alan >> I pilot a helicopter catching game allmost everyday in the winter in fact thats what I am doing right now.I look forward to the end of each day ,but when I think of the day that I will get my sub into the water I get excited .When I tell people im building a sub the allways laugh ,I think they boring. >> Glen >> >> >> Sent from Samsung Mobile >> >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: Norm via Personal_Submersibles >> Date:2016/06/05 06:26 (GMT+02:00) >> To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook >> >> Alan, >> >> ?Enquiring? minds want to ?no?. And ?hears? looking at you. >> >> With regards, >> >> Norm Parmley >> >> NSA, ASPCA, BSA, PETA, PTA, NRA, & ETC??. >> >> >> >> >> >> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 12:11 AM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook >> >> >> >> Jim, >> >> like the tax dept & FBI? >> >> You have obviously received my email, but I haven't! >> >> No, no ones interested in my private life. They would have to be a pretty boring >> >> individual if they were. >> >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> From: via Personal_Submersibles >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 4:01 PM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook >> >> >> >> The list is fairly short, but of rather high quality... >> >> JT >> >> >> >> In a message dated 6/4/2016 10:11:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: >> >> As for privacy.....Is there someone interested in your private life? >> >> Alan >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > = > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 6 00:26:13 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 23:26:13 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook In-Reply-To: <2145165853.5403035.1465174788472.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2145165853.5403035.1465174788472.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <92E64DF8-BD4C-40AC-9CBE-95B47B83163E@snyderemail.com> Haha! I wish! But that would be cheating. I'm gonna build it myself! .... someday... > On Jun 5, 2016, at 7:59 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > That's impressive Greg, > you could always justify buying a submarine as an escape > from business pressure. > Alan > > > From: Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, June 6, 2016 2:19 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook > > Wow! > So cool. > Well. I was just elected in a national campaign to head the Federation of State Medical Boards ( the national medical board organization) > Not nearly as cool as helicoptering! And I'm still no where close to getting my boat in the water! > > You guys are still the coolest and most interesting folks I know! > Greg > >> On Jun 5, 2016, at 2:03 AM, gbrown091 via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > > Hi Alan > I pilot a helicopter catching game allmost everyday in the winter in fact thats what I am doing right now.I look forward to the end of each day ,but when I think of the day that I will get my sub into the water I get excited .When I tell people im building a sub the allways laugh ,I think they boring. > Glen > > > Sent from Samsung Mobile > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Norm via Personal_Submersibles > Date:2016/06/05 06:26 (GMT+02:00) > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook > > Alan, > ?Enquiring? minds want to ?no?. And ?hears? looking at you. > With regards, > Norm Parmley > NSA, ASPCA, BSA, PETA, PTA, NRA, & ETC??. > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 12:11 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook > > Jim, > like the tax dept & FBI? > You have obviously received my email, but I haven't! > No, no ones interested in my private life. They would have to be a pretty boring > individual if they were. > Cheers Alan > > From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 4:01 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook > > The list is fairly short, but of rather high quality... > JT > > In a message dated 6/4/2016 10:11:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > As for privacy.....Is there someone interested in your private life? > Alan > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 6 03:24:15 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 15:24:15 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook In-Reply-To: <000001d1bf9c$e5975a80$b0c60f80$@telus.net> References: <2145165853.5403035.1465174788472.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000001d1bf9c$e5975a80$b0c60f80$@telus.net> Message-ID: What is private on Facebook is not private FROM Facebook, and they share. That's how they make their money. It isn't from the fees we pay! Marc On 6/6/2016 10:41 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Am missing something regarding the privacy issues of Face Book? > > > > I have kept everything private on my FB account. Nothing is "public" > other than my existence. I only accept "friends" of people I know, or > is friends with someone I know AND has an affiliation to psubing, > diving, or flying. And I know that once a friend has been accepted then > all his friends now also have access. I do not post anything on my FB > account that I don't want made public. I only post stuff about me, not > because I am self-centred, but because my family and personal friends > are not for public view. I have posted a pic or two of interesting > submarines and airplanes, but not even one of my cat. Basically: if you > don't want it publicized then don't post it. Am I being na?ve about FB? > > > > What about Yahoo Groups, is it better? > > > > Tim > > > > *From:*Personal_Submersibles > [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan > James via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Sunday, June 5, 2016 6:00 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook > > > > That's impressive Greg, > > you could always justify buying a submarine as an escape > > from business pressure. > > Alan > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles > > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > *Sent:* Monday, June 6, 2016 2:19 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook > > > > Wow! > > So cool. > > Well. I was just elected in a national campaign to head the Federation > of State Medical Boards ( the national medical board organization) > > Not nearly as cool as helicoptering! And I'm still no where close to > getting my boat in the water! > > > > You guys are still the coolest and most interesting folks I know! > > Greg > > > On Jun 5, 2016, at 2:03 AM, gbrown091 via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > Hi Alan > > I pilot a helicopter catching game allmost everyday in the winter in > fact thats what I am doing right now.I look forward to the end of each > day ,but when I think of the day that I will get my sub into the water I > get excited .When I tell people im building a sub the allways laugh ,I > think they boring. > > Glen > > > > > > Sent from Samsung Mobile > > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Norm via Personal_Submersibles > Date:2016/06/05 06:26 (GMT+02:00) > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook > > Alan, > > ?Enquiring? minds want to ?no?. And ?hears? looking at you. > > With regards, > > Norm Parmley > > NSA, ASPCA, BSA, PETA, PTA, NRA, & ETC??. > > > > > > *From:*Personal_Submersibles > [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan > James via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Sunday, June 5, 2016 12:11 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook > > > > Jim, > > like the tax dept & FBI? > > You have obviously received my email, but I haven't! > > No, no ones interested in my private life. They would have to be a > pretty boring > > individual if they were. > > Cheers Alan > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*via Personal_Submersibles > > *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > *Sent:* Sunday, June 5, 2016 4:01 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook > > > > The list is fairly short, but of rather high quality... > > JT > > > > In a message dated 6/4/2016 10:11:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > writes: > > As for privacy.....Is there someone interested in your private life? > > Alan > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 6 21:04:18 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 18:04:18 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook In-Reply-To: <44f24d.2c8bda45.4486572a@aol.com> References: <44f24d.2c8bda45.4486572a@aol.com> Message-ID: <000001d1c058$855dd830$90198890$@telus.net> Thanks, Jim, this is good information. Post no personal details on FB. People forget that a lot of their personal information is not private information? this was true even before FB and it's kin. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 9:34 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Good evening, Tim, The problems with Facebook that I referred to have nothing to do with what someone posts. Rather they were related to hackers breaching the servers and gaining access to members' account information. In 2010 Facebook settled a class action lawsuit (Lane v. Facebook, Inc.) stemming from Facebook posting members' private information without members' permission. Since I have never joined Facebook, I don't really know what might be included in account information. When I receive an email purportedly from the address of someone I have previously exchanged emails with, yet I can tell that person's address book has been invaded and the email is not actually from them, the vast majority of the time it is a Yahoo account. Therefore I stopped using Yahoo long ago. When I bought my present computer I was required to get a gmail address for some registration requirement (don't recall just what). I sent one email from that account and very soon began receiving online advertisements based on the content within that private email. Never used gmail again after that. I understand there is little I can do if someone personally targets me, but I try to avoid making it easy or getting caught up in a sweep. Best regards, Jim In a message dated 6/5/2016 9:41:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Am missing something regarding the privacy issues of Face Book? I have kept everything private on my FB account. Nothing is "public" other than my existence. I only accept "friends" of people I know, or is friends with someone I know AND has an affiliation to psubing, diving, or flying. And I know that once a friend has been accepted then all his friends now also have access. I do not post anything on my FB account that I don't want made public. I only post stuff about me, not because I am self-centred, but because my family and personal friends are not for public view. I have posted a pic or two of interesting submarines and airplanes, but not even one of my cat. Basically: if you don't want it publicized then don't post it. Am I being na?ve about FB? What about Yahoo Groups, is it better? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 6:00 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook That's impressive Greg, you could always justify buying a submarine as an escape from business pressure. Alan _____ From: Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, June 6, 2016 2:19 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Wow! So cool. Well. I was just elected in a national campaign to head the Federation of State Medical Boards ( the national medical board organization) Not nearly as cool as helicoptering! And I'm still no where close to getting my boat in the water! You guys are still the coolest and most interesting folks I know! Greg On Jun 5, 2016, at 2:03 AM, gbrown091 via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Alan I pilot a helicopter catching game allmost everyday in the winter in fact thats what I am doing right now.I look forward to the end of each day ,but when I think of the day that I will get my sub into the water I get excited .When I tell people im building a sub the allways laugh ,I think they boring. Glen Sent from Samsung Mobile -------- Original message -------- From: Norm via Personal_Submersibles Date:2016/06/05 06:26 (GMT+02:00) To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Alan, ?Enquiring? minds want to ?no?. And ?hears? looking at you. With regards, Norm Parmley NSA, ASPCA, BSA, PETA, PTA, NRA, & ETC??. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 12:11 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Jim, like the tax dept & FBI? You have obviously received my email, but I haven't! No, no ones interested in my private life. They would have to be a pretty boring individual if they were. Cheers Alan _____ From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook The list is fairly short, but of rather high quality... JT In a message dated 6/4/2016 10:11:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: As for privacy.....Is there someone interested in your private life? Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 7 10:22:19 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 10:22:19 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook In-Reply-To: <1368943776.4992148.1465013702267.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1368943776.4992148.1465013702267.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1368943776.4992148.1465013702267.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5756D89B.2040504@psubs.org> I'm for anything that works. The current email system is archived immediately, it's just in a different format than it use to be years ago. You can reach it by going to WWW.PSUBS.ORG -> Discussion -> Browse Archive. Unfortunately it is not searchable. I have stated my displeasure with our email forum numerous times primarily due to ever changing and stricter anti-spamming techniques by large providers such as yahoo, hotmail, etc, that make it difficult to configure. As it is now you can see that numerous posts have the name stripped off so if the person doesn't sign their name you don't even know who authored the email. The web based discussion is available but difficult to retain if I change software vendors, as I've needed to do in the past due to limitations or bugs in the software. The current one (myBB) has upload problems with large PDF files which I have never been able to resolve. I have installed a phpBB version which may work better but we'll lose whatever is in the current database. I am not opposed to facebook and in fact already have a PSUBS facebook page at "PSUBS - Personal Submersibles Organization" and "Personal Submersibles Organization". Apparently I created two of them, but never developed them because I didn't have time to learn how to build them out. If someone adept at facebook wants to get things moving with it, contact me so we can move it along. I have not forced a move from email because people seem to like it. But it's time consuming and painful to maintain so just be aware that when the next big problem comes around I'm likely going to shut it down and force a move to some other option that we have more control over. Jon On 6/4/2016 12:15 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > There have been some posts that I know I have missed of late. > The last post I saw was my post on pingers, not sure if anything > has come through since then. > Jon has mentioned the idea of going off the email based system > & using our psubs web based forum. > What about a Psubs Facebook page. What are the pros & cons > of that? Can we some how archive the posts under topics? > Alternatively if we continue on this email based system, can the > emails be archived immediately so that there is a way of checking > whether we are missing posts or not? > Cheers Alan > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 7 13:11:14 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2016 11:11:14 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook In-Reply-To: <5756D89B.2040504@psubs.org> References: <1368943776.4992148.1465013702267.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1368943776.4992148.1465013702267.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5756D89B.2040504@psubs.org> Message-ID: What is the problem with email? Shouldn't the recipients be able to whitelist / filter incoming messages appropriately? I like it. Email is low bandwidth, can be easily downloaded and viewed offline (important on expensive data connections), and doesn't require me to browse to and navigate a website to use. Sean On June 7, 2016 8:22:19 AM MDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >I'm for anything that works. > >The current email system is archived immediately, it's just in a >different format than it use to be years ago. You can reach it by >going >to WWW.PSUBS.ORG -> Discussion -> Browse Archive. Unfortunately it is >not searchable. I have stated my displeasure with our email forum >numerous times primarily due to ever changing and stricter >anti-spamming >techniques by large providers such as yahoo, hotmail, etc, that make it > >difficult to configure. As it is now you can see that numerous posts >have the name stripped off so if the person doesn't sign their name you > >don't even know who authored the email. > >The web based discussion is available but difficult to retain if I >change software vendors, as I've needed to do in the past due to >limitations or bugs in the software. The current one (myBB) has upload > >problems with large PDF files which I have never been able to resolve. > >I have installed a phpBB version which may work better but we'll lose >whatever is in the current database. > >I am not opposed to facebook and in fact already have a PSUBS facebook >page at "PSUBS - Personal Submersibles Organization" and "Personal >Submersibles Organization". Apparently I created two of them, but >never >developed them because I didn't have time to learn how to build them >out. If someone adept at facebook wants to get things moving with it, >contact me so we can move it along. > >I have not forced a move from email because people seem to like it. >But >it's time consuming and painful to maintain so just be aware that when >the next big problem comes around I'm likely going to shut it down and >force a move to some other option that we have more control over. > >Jon > > > >On 6/4/2016 12:15 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> There have been some posts that I know I have missed of late. >> The last post I saw was my post on pingers, not sure if anything >> has come through since then. >> Jon has mentioned the idea of going off the email based system >> & using our psubs web based forum. >> What about a Psubs Facebook page. What are the pros & cons >> of that? Can we some how archive the posts under topics? >> Alternatively if we continue on this email based system, can the >> emails be archived immediately so that there is a way of checking >> whether we are missing posts or not? >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 7 14:04:19 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 08:04:19 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: References: <6bty8uf3ww7i2fecqxrl7qcu.1464394672854@email.android.com> <1553742741.665367.1464396816588.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5748ff78.1314620a.8ffad.ffffa93e@mx.google.com> <38af2636-316a-31ac-168d-6f68377ec99a@ohiohills.com> Message-ID: I would like to find out from anyone who has an external VHF antenna how they potted what looks like a filter at the base of the antenna. Rick On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 3:25 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I just got introduced to a free cloud CAD program by one of the SMEs who > is volunteering on Shackleton. The UI is very similar to a simplified > Autocad, it seems to share a lot of the same commands. I'm sure there are > limitations, but this seems to have three major things going for it; it's > not too hard, it allows online collaboration between multiple designers > because its in the cloud, and its FREE. > > https://www.onshape.com/ > > > Best, > > Alec > > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> I have Delftship, a freebie but apparently comprehensive thing intended >> for surface ship design. (It was originally called Freeships, I think.) I >> have never been able to us it because the manual is damn near >> incomprehensible (it doesn't use some of the terminology I'm accustomed to >> seeing). If anyone can get it to do something useful, send me a >> personal message! >> >> >> Mike >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 7 14:08:54 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 08:08:54 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass In-Reply-To: <25373669.648944.1464393186664.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160527162051.EE36D09F@m0087794.ppops.net> <25373669.648944.1464393186664.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have the Minn-Kota 101,s and would like to see how those who have done it have passed the power cables from the oil filled motor threw the fitting that rotates and passes threw the hull to the inside. Rick On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Brian, > something you could experiment with is applying epoxy to the glass mat that > you want to adhere or on the sub itself & wait till it gets tacky before > applying it. > Then apply the rest of the epoxy later, wait till the last coat gets > tacky & add some more > glass cloth. > You could take your time with that process, but the epoxy is twice the > cost of the polyester. > Alan > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* PSubs > *Sent:* Saturday, May 28, 2016 11:20 AM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass > > Hank, I wanted to mention that some of my brilliant upside down > fiberglass work did not go that great. I did not get the adhesion that I > should have, some place seemed fine but other areas I didn't get the resin > to soak in good enough. I may try something else next time. I may put an > initial coat of resin on the underside, soak the fiberglass and then try to > compress it up there some how with a plastic mold release barrier. > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 7 14:59:10 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2016 13:59:10 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?fiberglass?= In-Reply-To: References: <20160527162051.EE36D09F@m0087794.ppops.net> <25373669.648944.1464393186664.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20160607185910.16407.qmail@server268.com> How has everyone retrofitted the MinKota's to have a 1" rotating shaft to go through the penetrators? Thank you, Scott Waters > -------Original Message------- > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass > Sent: Jun 07 '16 13:10 > > I have the Minn-Kota 101,s and would like to see how those who have > done it have passed the power cables from the oil filled motor threw > the fitting that rotates and passes threw the hull to the inside. > > Rick > > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Brian, > > something you could experiment with is applying epoxy to the glass > > mat that > > you want to adhere or on the sub itself & wait till it gets tacky > > before applying it. > > Then apply the rest of the epoxy later, wait till the last coat gets > > tacky & add some more > > glass cloth. > > You could take your time with that process, but the epoxy is twice > > the cost of the polyester. > > Alan > > > > ------------------------- > > FROM: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > > > TO: PSubs > > SENT: Saturday, May 28, 2016 11:20 AM > > SUBJECT: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass > > > > Hank, I wanted to mention that some of my brilliant upside down > > fiberglass work did not go that great. I did not get the adhesion > > that I should have, some place seemed fine but other areas I didn't > > get the resin to soak in good enough. I may try something else next > > time. I may put an initial coat of resin on the underside, soak the > > fiberglass and then try to compress it up there some how with a > > plastic mold release barrier. > > > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 7 15:00:13 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2016 14:00:13 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?CAD_for_presentation?= In-Reply-To: References: <6bty8uf3ww7i2fecqxrl7qcu.1464394672854@email.android.com> <1553742741.665367.1464396816588.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5748ff78.1314620a.8ffad.ffffa93e@mx.google.com> <38af2636-316a-31ac-168d-6f68377ec99a@ohiohills.com> Message-ID: <20160607190013.20054.qmail@server268.com> Rick, I never did pot my VHF antenna and it works great. I did however pot my GPS and I just filled it with epoxy and it works great too. Thank you, Scott Waters > -------Original Message------- > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation > Sent: Jun 07 '16 13:05 > > I would like to find out from anyone who has an external VHF antenna > how they potted what looks like a filter at the base of the antenna. > > Rick > > On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 3:25 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > > > > I just got introduced to a free cloud CAD program by one of the SMEs > > who is volunteering on Shackleton. The UI is very similar to a > > simplified Autocad, it seems to share a lot of the same commands. > > I'm sure there are limitations, but this seems to have three major > > things going for it; it's not too hard, it allows online > > collaboration between multiple designers because its in the cloud, > > and its FREE. > > > > https://www.onshape.com/ > > > > Best, > > > > Alec > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Michael Holt via > > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > >> I have Delftship, a freebie but apparently comprehensive thing > >> intended for surface ship design. (It was originally called > >> Freeships, I think.) I have never been able to us it because the > >> manual is damn near incomprehensible (it doesn't use some of the > >> terminology I'm accustomed to seeing). If anyone can get it to > >> do something useful, send me a personal message! > >> > >> Mike > >> > >> --- > >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus > >> software. > >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 7 15:05:31 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 09:05:31 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: <20160607190013.20054.qmail@server268.com> References: <6bty8uf3ww7i2fecqxrl7qcu.1464394672854@email.android.com> <1553742741.665367.1464396816588.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5748ff78.1314620a.8ffad.ffffa93e@mx.google.com> <38af2636-316a-31ac-168d-6f68377ec99a@ohiohills.com> <20160607190013.20054.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: Thanks Scott, I was concerned that what looks like a filter on the bottom of the antenna would not be able to be immersed in salt water especially while under pressure. Anybody else want to weigh in on this? Rick On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 9:00 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > > I never did pot my VHF antenna and it works great. I did however pot my > GPS and I just filled it with epoxy and it works great too. > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation > > Sent: Jun 07 '16 13:05 > > > > I would like to find out from anyone who has an external VHF antenna > > how they potted what looks like a filter at the base of the antenna. > > > > Rick > > > > On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 3:25 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > I just got introduced to a free cloud CAD program by one of the SMEs > > > who is volunteering on Shackleton. The UI is very similar to a > > > simplified Autocad, it seems to share a lot of the same commands. > > > I'm sure there are limitations, but this seems to have three major > > > things going for it; it's not too hard, it allows online > > > collaboration between multiple designers because its in the cloud, > > > and its FREE. > > > > > > https://www.onshape.com/ > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > Alec > > > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Michael Holt via > > > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > >> I have Delftship, a freebie but apparently comprehensive thing > > >> intended for surface ship design. (It was originally called > > >> Freeships, I think.) I have never been able to us it because the > > >> manual is damn near incomprehensible (it doesn't use some of the > > >> terminology I'm accustomed to seeing). If anyone can get it to > > >> do something useful, send me a personal message! > > >> > > >> Mike > > >> > > >> --- > > >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus > > >> software. > > >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 7 17:53:24 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 17:53:24 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook In-Reply-To: References: <1368943776.4992148.1465013702267.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1368943776.4992148.1465013702267.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5756D89B.2040504@psubs.org> Message-ID: <138d2ed5-c1c4-fd7a-894c-bf870263f08b@ohiohills.com> On 6/7/2016 1:11 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > What is the problem with email? Shouldn't the recipients be able to > whitelist / filter incoming messages appropriately? I like it. Email > is low bandwidth, can be easily downloaded and viewed offline > (important on expensive data connections), and doesn't require me to > browse to and navigate a website to use. > I stand with you, on this, Sean. I prefer e-mail lists to any other method I have seen. Mike --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 7 18:43:54 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 22:43:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook In-Reply-To: <138d2ed5-c1c4-fd7a-894c-bf870263f08b@ohiohills.com> References: <1368943776.4992148.1465013702267.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1368943776.4992148.1465013702267.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5756D89B.2040504@psubs.org> <138d2ed5-c1c4-fd7a-894c-bf870263f08b@ohiohills.com> Message-ID: <53797694.95180.1465339434704.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> The problem with the current email system as I understand it is that Jon (or Psubs) is sending out emails to 100s of people daily,& spam filters are thinking that?he is a spammer.Jon has expressed that this has been increasingly difficult to counter.He is the one being approached by members with mailing problems,& is expected to constantly solve these ever changing issues.I brought up the Facebook alternative because I could see by?our email conversations, that I had been missing mail. A recent example was thatmy own post didn't make it back to me. I don't like the idea of appearingrude by not responding to someone, or someone feeling ignored whena response was given them that they didn't receive.Jon has just said that emails are being archived immediately so anyonecan check if they suspect they've missed posts.?? Also I was seeing photos & videos on Facebook?posted by?Psubbers thatI thought the Psub group would enjoy, but possibly because of attachmentsize limitations they didn't bother posting on email.Another plus for Facebook is you can click on the posters avatar & link towhatever information they make public about themselves,?so you?knowwho you are talking to.?Below is Jon's previous post outlining the problems with email.AlanEmail is becoming a problem.? It is becoming more difficult to deal with the numerous ways internet providers are dealing with perceived spam, and PSUBS email is often interpreted as unsolicited mail even though I've been careful to configure it to comply with industry standards.? The real problem is that internet providers in their zest to stop spam reaching their customers are implementing non-standard means to reach that end. You will recall that the latest "fix" was to make it look like those submitting mail to the list were actually doing so from the PSUBS server.? This is why emails now show " via personal_submersibles" instead of the actual submitters email address as it use to be.? Additionally, more and more providers are simply blocking the PSUBS discussion list completely and we have no solution for that.? This happened just recently to one of our members and the only solution was to get an account someplace (usually gmail or yahoo) that didn't block our discussion list. Bottom line is that when these spam issues arise it usually kills our discussions until I can get the time to determine what the real issue is and find a fix for it.? Worse, I never know if there is really a problem or if the list is just quiet, until someone contacts me personally and says they haven't seen any messages for a while.? I am finding I have less time overall to deal with email configuration issues and less desire to spend my time chasing after such solutions.? Therefore, I have resurrected web based forums on the website and set up various discussion forums.? I am not going to shut-off the email based discussions, but I am no longer going to provide technical support for them either.? For anyone that encounters email issues in the future, the answer will be, move over to the web-forum. It behooves us to start this process now while the email discussion list is still working adequately so we can resolve any issues with the web-forum.? So please take the time to register on the web-forum even if you still intend to use the email list as your primary means for now.? I personally prefer email to the web-forum, but I have finally raised the white-flag and capitulated because of the pain involved with trying to chase the anti-spam policies of major internet providers. Again, the email discussion list is not closing down, but I am no longer providing technical support for it.? The web based forum will become our "official" means of communication even though we (including me) may still use the email method. From: Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook On 6/7/2016 1:11 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > What is the problem with email? Shouldn't the recipients be able to > whitelist / filter incoming messages appropriately?? I like it. Email > is low bandwidth, can be easily downloaded and viewed offline > (important on expensive data connections), and doesn't require me to > browse to and navigate a website to use. > I stand with you, on this, Sean.? I prefer e-mail lists to any other method I have seen. Mike --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 7 19:22:34 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 07:22:34 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook In-Reply-To: <138d2ed5-c1c4-fd7a-894c-bf870263f08b@ohiohills.com> References: <1368943776.4992148.1465013702267.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1368943776.4992148.1465013702267.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5756D89B.2040504@psubs.org> <138d2ed5-c1c4-fd7a-894c-bf870263f08b@ohiohills.com> Message-ID: <6da6358a-fb90-c40e-a48b-c55de415d3aa@archivale.com> I agree. When lists shift to the Web I don't have time to follow them. I lost track of the ferrocement list this way, and several others. Marc On 6/8/2016 5:53 AM, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > On 6/7/2016 1:11 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> What is the problem with email? Shouldn't the recipients be able to >> whitelist / filter incoming messages appropriately? I like it. Email >> is low bandwidth, can be easily downloaded and viewed offline >> (important on expensive data connections), and doesn't require me to >> browse to and navigate a website to use. >> > I stand with you, on this, Sean. I prefer e-mail lists to any other > method I have seen. > > > Mike > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 7 21:20:12 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 01:20:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook In-Reply-To: <6da6358a-fb90-c40e-a48b-c55de415d3aa@archivale.com> References: <1368943776.4992148.1465013702267.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1368943776.4992148.1465013702267.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5756D89B.2040504@psubs.org> <138d2ed5-c1c4-fd7a-894c-bf870263f08b@ohiohills.com> <6da6358a-fb90-c40e-a48b-c55de415d3aa@archivale.com> Message-ID: <15084935.153940.1465348812831.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Perhaps you missed my last email about email problems!It contained a post from Jon outlining that he wasn't continuingtechnical support for the current email system.I prefer things as they are, but what is the preferred "Other" option?I am not a Facebook expert, but I believe you can have "Alerts"come up on your desktop, & have a shortcut to the site. So itwouldn't take anymore time than email to view.Cheers Alan From: Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook I agree. When lists shift to the Web I don't have time to follow them. I lost track of the ferrocement list this way, and several others. Marc On 6/8/2016 5:53 AM, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > On 6/7/2016 1:11 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> What is the problem with email? Shouldn't the recipients be able to >> whitelist / filter incoming messages appropriately?? I like it. Email >> is low bandwidth, can be easily downloaded and viewed offline >> (important on expensive data connections), and doesn't require me to >> browse to and navigate a website to use. >> > I stand with you, on this, Sean.? I prefer e-mail lists to any other > method I have seen. > > > Mike > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 7 22:03:01 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 22:03:01 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Message-ID: <405f85.7a57b1e.4488d6d5@aol.com> Alan, Sometimes my own posts do not come back (usually they do), but I don't think I'm missing any that originate from others since I don't see anything I've missed when I scroll down in the ones I do receive. Jim In a message dated 6/7/2016 8:23:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Perhaps you missed my last email about email problems! It contained a post from Jon outlining that he wasn't continuing technical support for the current email system. I prefer things as they are, but what is the preferred "Other" option? I am not a Facebook expert, but I believe you can have "Alerts" come up on your desktop, & have a shortcut to the site. So it wouldn't take anymore time than email to view. Cheers Alan ____________________________________ From: Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook I agree. When lists shift to the Web I don't have time to follow them. I lost track of the ferrocement list this way, and several others. Marc On 6/8/2016 5:53 AM, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > On 6/7/2016 1:11 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> What is the problem with email? Shouldn't the recipients be able to >> whitelist / filter incoming messages appropriately? I like it. Email >> is low bandwidth, can be easily downloaded and viewed offline >> (important on expensive data connections), and doesn't require me to >> browse to and navigate a website to use. >> > I stand with you, on this, Sean. I prefer e-mail lists to any other > method I have seen. > > > Mike > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 7 22:22:56 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 02:22:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook In-Reply-To: <405f85.7a57b1e.4488d6d5@aol.com> References: <405f85.7a57b1e.4488d6d5@aol.com> Message-ID: <4736103.170780.1465352576093.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Jim,perhaps it's a New Zealand problem!They've got to travel under the Pacific Ocean via Hawaii.That's a long way underwater!Alan From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 2:03 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Alan,Sometimes my own posts do not come back (usually they do), but?I don't think I'm missing any that originate from others since I don't see anything I've missed when I scroll down in the ones I do receive.Jim?In a message dated 6/7/2016 8:23:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Perhaps you missed my last email about email problems! It contained a post from Jon outlining that he wasn't continuing technical support for the current email system. I prefer things as they are, but what is the preferred "Other" option? I am not a Facebook expert, but I believe you can have "Alerts" come up on your desktop, & have a shortcut to the site. So it wouldn't take anymore time than email to view. Cheers Alan From: Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook I agree. When lists shift to the Web I don't have time to follow them. I lost track of the ferrocement list this way, and several others. Marc On 6/8/2016 5:53 AM, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > On 6/7/2016 1:11 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> What is the problem with email? Shouldn't the recipients be able to >> whitelist / filter incoming messages appropriately?? I like it. Email >> is low bandwidth, can be easily downloaded and viewed offline >> (important on expensive data connections), and doesn't require me to >> browse to and navigate a website to use. >> > I stand with you, on this, Sean.? I prefer e-mail lists to any other > method I have seen. > > > Mike > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 7 22:34:21 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 22:34:21 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Message-ID: <4087e6.4b96fcfa.4488de2d@aol.com> Alan, That's because American eagles fly and kiwis don't. Jim In a message dated 6/7/2016 9:26:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Jim, perhaps it's a New Zealand problem! They've got to travel under the Pacific Ocean via Hawaii. That's a long way underwater! Alan ____________________________________ From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 2:03 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Alan, Sometimes my own posts do not come back (usually they do), but I don't think I'm missing any that originate from others since I don't see anything I've missed when I scroll down in the ones I do receive. Jim In a message dated 6/7/2016 8:23:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Perhaps you missed my last email about email problems! It contained a post from Jon outlining that he wasn't continuing technical support for the current email system. I prefer things as they are, but what is the preferred "Other" option? I am not a Facebook expert, but I believe you can have "Alerts" come up on your desktop, & have a shortcut to the site. So it wouldn't take anymore time than email to view. Cheers Alan ____________________________________ From: Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook I agree. When lists shift to the Web I don't have time to follow them. I lost track of the ferrocement list this way, and several others. Marc On 6/8/2016 5:53 AM, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > On 6/7/2016 1:11 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> What is the problem with email? Shouldn't the recipients be able to >> whitelist / filter incoming messages appropriately? I like it. Email >> is low bandwidth, can be easily downloaded and viewed offline >> (important on expensive data connections), and doesn't require me to >> browse to and navigate a website to use. >> > I stand with you, on this, Sean. I prefer e-mail lists to any other > method I have seen. > > > Mike > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 8 00:02:18 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 04:02:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook In-Reply-To: <4087e6.4b96fcfa.4488de2d@aol.com> References: <4087e6.4b96fcfa.4488de2d@aol.com> Message-ID: <1003131115.225330.1465358538224.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> You mean the "Bald Eagle"?Alan From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Alan,That's because American eagles fly and kiwis don't.Jim?In a message dated 6/7/2016 9:26:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Jim, perhaps it's a New Zealand problem! They've got to travel under the Pacific Ocean via Hawaii. That's a long way underwater! Alan From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 2:03 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook Alan, Sometimes my own posts do not come back (usually they do), but?I don't think I'm missing any that originate from others since I don't see anything I've missed when I scroll down in the ones I do receive. Jim ? In a message dated 6/7/2016 8:23:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Perhaps you missed my last email about email problems! It contained a post from Jon outlining that he wasn't continuing technical support for the current email system. I prefer things as they are, but what is the preferred "Other" option? I am not a Facebook expert, but I believe you can have "Alerts" come up on your desktop, & have a shortcut to the site. So it wouldn't take anymore time than email to view. Cheers Alan From: Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psub Facebook I agree. When lists shift to the Web I don't have time to follow them. I lost track of the ferrocement list this way, and several others. Marc On 6/8/2016 5:53 AM, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > On 6/7/2016 1:11 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> What is the problem with email? Shouldn't the recipients be able to >> whitelist / filter incoming messages appropriately?? I like it. Email >> is low bandwidth, can be easily downloaded and viewed offline >> (important on expensive data connections), and doesn't require me to >> browse to and navigate a website to use. >> > I stand with you, on this, Sean.? I prefer e-mail lists to any other > method I have seen. > > > Mike > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 8 06:09:34 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 11:09:34 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass In-Reply-To: <20160607185910.16407.qmail@server268.com> References: <20160527162051.EE36D09F@m0087794.ppops.net> <25373669.648944.1464393186664.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <20160607185910.16407.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: I made the rotating through hulls with 2x brass rods passing through into the hull. Personally, I find these motors and in particular these through hulls the single most time consuming part of psubbing. Difficult to construct and maintain. http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/publication2_files/Page21512.htm http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/extended_files/Page24592.htm Biggest problem is that when you have filled the inside of the through hull with epoxy, there is no longer any adjustment on the cable. So you have to make the cables fit without touching any part of the motor innards. Some sort of modification needed im sure. Plus the motors jam in the through hull tubes. Oil compensation is messy and a nuisance. I have seen Emile's hubless motors and these are much better, but not available to us at the moment I don't think. I just took delivery today of 8 brand new AGM batteries...... :) Regards James On 7 June 2016 at 19:59, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > How has everyone retrofitted the MinKota's to have a 1" rotating shaft to > go through the penetrators? > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass > > Sent: Jun 07 '16 13:10 > > > > I have the Minn-Kota 101,s and would like to see how those who have > > done it have passed the power cables from the oil filled motor threw > > the fitting that rotates and passes threw the hull to the inside. > > > > Rick > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > > Brian, > > > something you could experiment with is applying epoxy to the glass > > > mat that > > > you want to adhere or on the sub itself & wait till it gets tacky > > > before applying it. > > > Then apply the rest of the epoxy later, wait till the last coat gets > > > tacky & add some more > > > glass cloth. > > > You could take your time with that process, but the epoxy is twice > > > the cost of the polyester. > > > Alan > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > FROM: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > > > > > TO: PSubs > > > SENT: Saturday, May 28, 2016 11:20 AM > > > SUBJECT: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass > > > > > > Hank, I wanted to mention that some of my brilliant upside down > > > fiberglass work did not go that great. I did not get the adhesion > > > that I should have, some place seemed fine but other areas I didn't > > > get the resin to soak in good enough. I may try something else next > > > time. I may put an initial coat of resin on the underside, soak the > > > fiberglass and then try to compress it up there some how with a > > > plastic mold release barrier. > > > > > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 8 07:32:26 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 11:32:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass In-Reply-To: References: <20160527162051.EE36D09F@m0087794.ppops.net> <25373669.648944.1464393186664.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <20160607185910.16407.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: <1362147510.332557.1465385546169.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I have opted for drilling and tapping in penetrators rather then run the wires?through the shaft opening. ?If you go with your wires through the pivot shaft, I found that a two step process works for me. ?First I put the wires through the motor opening and seal them in place. The epoxy does not need to go into the motor, so I just silicone the wires at the motor so epoxy does not run into the motor. ?Alan had a great idea to use chewing gum. ?Then I feed the sealed wires through the shaft and then thread the shaft into the motor and fill with either epoxy or casting resin. ?I use a casting resin with super high compressive strength. ? If you install the wires with the epoxy into the shaft first, it is a bugger to rotate the shaft into the threads because my motors have an akward bend that the wires have to make. ?I have not used 101's though, just 50 lb thrust, but I think they are similar. ?Hank On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 4:09 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I made the rotating through hulls with 2x brass rods passing through into the hull.?Personally, I find these motors and in particular these through hulls the single most time consuming part of psubbing.?? Difficult to construct and maintain.?? ?http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/publication2_files/Page21512.htmhttp://www.guernseysubmarine.com/extended_files/Page24592.htm?Biggest problem is that when you have filled the?inside of the through hull with?epoxy, there is no longer any adjustment on the cable.? So?you have to make the cables fit without touching any part of the motor innards.? Some sort of modification needed im sure.? Plus the motors jam in the through hull tubes.? Oil compensation is messy and a nuisance.? ?I have seen Emile's hubless motors and these are much better, but not available to us at the moment I don't think.?I just took delivery today of 8 brand new AGM batteries...... :)?RegardsJames? On 7 June 2016 at 19:59, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: How has everyone retrofitted the MinKota's to have a 1" rotating shaft to go through the penetrators? Thank you, Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass >? Sent: Jun 07 '16 13:10 > >? I have the Minn-Kota 101,s and would like to see how those who have >? done it have passed the power cables from the oil filled motor threw >? the fitting that rotates and passes threw the hull to the inside. > >? Rick > >? On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: > >? > Brian, >? > something you could experiment with is applying epoxy to the glass >? > mat that >? > you want to adhere or on the sub itself & wait till it gets tacky >? > before applying it. >? > Then apply the rest of the epoxy later, wait till the last coat gets >? > tacky & add some more >? > glass cloth. >? > You could take your time with that process, but the epoxy is twice >? > the cost of the polyester. >? > Alan >? > >? > ------------------------- >? > FROM: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >? > >? > TO: PSubs >? > SENT: Saturday, May 28, 2016 11:20 AM >? > SUBJECT: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass >? > >? > Hank, I wanted to mention that some of my brilliant upside down >? > fiberglass work did not go that great. I did not get the adhesion >? > that I should have, some place seemed fine but other areas I didn't >? > get the resin to soak in good enough. I may try something else next >? > time. I may put an initial coat of resin on the underside, soak the >? > fiberglass and then try to compress it up there some how with a >? > plastic mold release barrier. >? > >? > Brian >? > _______________________________________________ >? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? > >? > _______________________________________________ >? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 8 07:36:19 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 11:36:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass In-Reply-To: References: <20160527162051.EE36D09F@m0087794.ppops.net> <25373669.648944.1464393186664.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <20160607185910.16407.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: <142484429.309812.1465385779248.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Just to clarify, when I say to put the wires through the shaft, I transition from wire to threaded rod inside the shaft. ?Hank On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 4:09 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I made the rotating through hulls with 2x brass rods passing through into the hull.?Personally, I find these motors and in particular these through hulls the single most time consuming part of psubbing.?? Difficult to construct and maintain.?? ?http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/publication2_files/Page21512.htmhttp://www.guernseysubmarine.com/extended_files/Page24592.htm?Biggest problem is that when you have filled the?inside of the through hull with?epoxy, there is no longer any adjustment on the cable.? So?you have to make the cables fit without touching any part of the motor innards.? Some sort of modification needed im sure.? Plus the motors jam in the through hull tubes.? Oil compensation is messy and a nuisance.? ?I have seen Emile's hubless motors and these are much better, but not available to us at the moment I don't think.?I just took delivery today of 8 brand new AGM batteries...... :)?RegardsJames? On 7 June 2016 at 19:59, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: How has everyone retrofitted the MinKota's to have a 1" rotating shaft to go through the penetrators? Thank you, Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass >? Sent: Jun 07 '16 13:10 > >? I have the Minn-Kota 101,s and would like to see how those who have >? done it have passed the power cables from the oil filled motor threw >? the fitting that rotates and passes threw the hull to the inside. > >? Rick > >? On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: > >? > Brian, >? > something you could experiment with is applying epoxy to the glass >? > mat that >? > you want to adhere or on the sub itself & wait till it gets tacky >? > before applying it. >? > Then apply the rest of the epoxy later, wait till the last coat gets >? > tacky & add some more >? > glass cloth. >? > You could take your time with that process, but the epoxy is twice >? > the cost of the polyester. >? > Alan >? > >? > ------------------------- >? > FROM: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >? > >? > TO: PSubs >? > SENT: Saturday, May 28, 2016 11:20 AM >? > SUBJECT: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass >? > >? > Hank, I wanted to mention that some of my brilliant upside down >? > fiberglass work did not go that great. I did not get the adhesion >? > that I should have, some place seemed fine but other areas I didn't >? > get the resin to soak in good enough. I may try something else next >? > time. I may put an initial coat of resin on the underside, soak the >? > fiberglass and then try to compress it up there some how with a >? > plastic mold release barrier. >? > >? > Brian >? > _______________________________________________ >? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? > >? > _______________________________________________ >? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 8 07:39:01 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 11:39:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass In-Reply-To: <1362147510.332557.1465385546169.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160527162051.EE36D09F@m0087794.ppops.net> <25373669.648944.1464393186664.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <20160607185910.16407.qmail@server268.com> <1362147510.332557.1465385546169.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <867116019.290817.1465385941662.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> O ya one more thing, to remove the original shaft, heat it up first, there seems to be some sort of lock tight on the?threads.Hank On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 5:35 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have opted for drilling and tapping in penetrators rather then run the wires?through the shaft opening. ?If you go with your wires through the pivot shaft, I found that a two step process works for me. ?First I put the wires through the motor opening and seal them in place. The epoxy does not need to go into the motor, so I just silicone the wires at the motor so epoxy does not run into the motor. ?Alan had a great idea to use chewing gum. ?Then I feed the sealed wires through the shaft and then thread the shaft into the motor and fill with either epoxy or casting resin. ?I use a casting resin with super high compressive strength. ? If you install the wires with the epoxy into the shaft first, it is a bugger to rotate the shaft into the threads because my motors have an akward bend that the wires have to make. ?I have not used 101's though, just 50 lb thrust, but I think they are similar. ?Hank On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 4:09 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I made the rotating through hulls with 2x brass rods passing through into the hull.?Personally, I find these motors and in particular these through hulls the single most time consuming part of psubbing.?? Difficult to construct and maintain.?? ?http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/publication2_files/Page21512.htmhttp://www.guernseysubmarine.com/extended_files/Page24592.htm?Biggest problem is that when you have filled the?inside of the through hull with?epoxy, there is no longer any adjustment on the cable.? So?you have to make the cables fit without touching any part of the motor innards.? Some sort of modification needed im sure.? Plus the motors jam in the through hull tubes.? Oil compensation is messy and a nuisance.? ?I have seen Emile's hubless motors and these are much better, but not available to us at the moment I don't think.?I just took delivery today of 8 brand new AGM batteries...... :)?RegardsJames? On 7 June 2016 at 19:59, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: How has everyone retrofitted the MinKota's to have a 1" rotating shaft to go through the penetrators? Thank you, Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass >? Sent: Jun 07 '16 13:10 > >? I have the Minn-Kota 101,s and would like to see how those who have >? done it have passed the power cables from the oil filled motor threw >? the fitting that rotates and passes threw the hull to the inside. > >? Rick > >? On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: > >? > Brian, >? > something you could experiment with is applying epoxy to the glass >? > mat that >? > you want to adhere or on the sub itself & wait till it gets tacky >? > before applying it. >? > Then apply the rest of the epoxy later, wait till the last coat gets >? > tacky & add some more >? > glass cloth. >? > You could take your time with that process, but the epoxy is twice >? > the cost of the polyester. >? > Alan >? > >? > ------------------------- >? > FROM: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >? > >? > TO: PSubs >? > SENT: Saturday, May 28, 2016 11:20 AM >? > SUBJECT: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass >? > >? > Hank, I wanted to mention that some of my brilliant upside down >? > fiberglass work did not go that great. I did not get the adhesion >? > that I should have, some place seemed fine but other areas I didn't >? > get the resin to soak in good enough. I may try something else next >? > time. I may put an initial coat of resin on the underside, soak the >? > fiberglass and then try to compress it up there some how with a >? > plastic mold release barrier. >? > >? > Brian >? > _______________________________________________ >? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? > >? > _______________________________________________ >? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 8 10:58:01 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 15:58:01 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass In-Reply-To: <867116019.290817.1465385941662.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160527162051.EE36D09F@m0087794.ppops.net> <25373669.648944.1464393186664.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <20160607185910.16407.qmail@server268.com> <1362147510.332557.1465385546169.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <867116019.290817.1465385941662.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank. What if you have to take the motors apart for anything? They are potted now and you get the same problem as I have\had?? I made a brilliant picture. The problem for me is getting the cables from the potted shafts onto the spade terminals while trying to push the brushed back through a 2mm hole.... Probably the same awkward bend as you mentioned. If I did this again, I would probably have the cables threaded and going outside and then back into the hull through a standard penetrator. If I read it right that's what you've done. And I might even do away with the rotating motors and have 4 of them static. ? On 8 June 2016 at 12:39, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > O ya one more thing, to remove the original shaft, heat it up first, there > seems to be some sort of lock tight on the threads. > Hank > > > On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 5:35 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > I have opted for drilling and tapping in penetrators rather then run the > wires through the shaft opening. If you go with your wires through the > pivot shaft, I found that a two step process works for me. First I put the > wires through the motor opening and seal them in place. The epoxy does not > need to go into the motor, so I just silicone the wires at the motor so > epoxy does not run into the motor. Alan had a great idea to use chewing > gum. Then I feed the sealed wires through the shaft and then thread the > shaft into the motor and fill with either epoxy or casting resin. I use a > casting resin with super high compressive strength. If you install the > wires with the epoxy into the shaft first, it is a bugger to rotate the > shaft into the threads because my motors have an akward bend that the wires > have to make. I have not used 101's though, just 50 lb thrust, but I think > they are similar. > Hank > > > On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 4:09 AM, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I made the rotating through hulls with 2x brass rods passing through into > the hull. > > Personally, I find these motors and in particular these through hulls the > single most time consuming part of psubbing. Difficult to construct and > maintain. > > http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/publication2_files/Page21512.htm > http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/extended_files/Page24592.htm > > Biggest problem is that when you have filled the inside of the through > hull with epoxy, there is no longer any adjustment on the cable. So you > have to make the cables fit without touching any part of the motor > innards. Some sort of modification needed im sure. Plus the motors jam in > the through hull tubes. Oil compensation is messy and a nuisance. > > I have seen Emile's hubless motors and these are much better, but not > available to us at the moment I don't think. > > I just took delivery today of 8 brand new AGM batteries...... :) > > Regards > James > > > On 7 June 2016 at 19:59, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > How has everyone retrofitted the MinKota's to have a 1" rotating shaft to > go through the penetrators? > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass > > Sent: Jun 07 '16 13:10 > > > > I have the Minn-Kota 101,s and would like to see how those who have > > done it have passed the power cables from the oil filled motor threw > > the fitting that rotates and passes threw the hull to the inside. > > > > Rick > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > > Brian, > > > something you could experiment with is applying epoxy to the glass > > > mat that > > > you want to adhere or on the sub itself & wait till it gets tacky > > > before applying it. > > > Then apply the rest of the epoxy later, wait till the last coat gets > > > tacky & add some more > > > glass cloth. > > > You could take your time with that process, but the epoxy is twice > > > the cost of the polyester. > > > Alan > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > FROM: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > > > > > TO: PSubs > > > SENT: Saturday, May 28, 2016 11:20 AM > > > SUBJECT: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass > > > > > > Hank, I wanted to mention that some of my brilliant upside down > > > fiberglass work did not go that great. I did not get the adhesion > > > that I should have, some place seemed fine but other areas I didn't > > > get the resin to soak in good enough. I may try something else next > > > time. I may put an initial coat of resin on the underside, soak the > > > fiberglass and then try to compress it up there some how with a > > > plastic mold release barrier. > > > > > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Minn Kota.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 47992 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 8 11:09:35 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 15:09:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass In-Reply-To: References: <20160527162051.EE36D09F@m0087794.ppops.net> <25373669.648944.1464393186664.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <20160607185910.16407.qmail@server268.com> <1362147510.332557.1465385546169.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <867116019.290817.1465385941662.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <498723249.446708.1465398575857.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> James,Yes I always?thread in ?penetrators now, right beside the brush on each side, super easy! ?As for taking the motor apart, the wires are coiled inside to allow for removing the end cap with the brushes. ?Its a bitch, and I hate it! ?but it is better than try to rotate the wires in the tight turn in the housing. Of coarse a test assemble to ensure the wire length works before epoxy is important. ?There is potential for damaging a wire and not knowing it is damaged. ?Maybe my motors have a tighter turn in them than the 101's. ?Either way, I like the way I do it now. ?Hankps; nice picture On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 8:58 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank.?? What if you have to take the motors apart for anything?? They are potted now and you get the same problem as I have\had??? I made a brilliant picture.?The problem for me is getting the cables from the potted shafts onto the spade terminals while trying to push the brushed back through a 2mm hole.... Probably the same awkward bend as you mentioned.? ?If I did this again, I would probably have the cables threaded and going outside and then back into the hull through a standard penetrator.? If I read it right that's what you've done.? And I might even do away with the rotating motors and have 4 of them?static.? ? On 8 June 2016 at 12:39, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: O ya one more thing, to remove the original shaft, heat it up first, there seems to be some sort of lock tight on the?threads.Hank On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 5:35 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have opted for drilling and tapping in penetrators rather then run the wires?through the shaft opening.? If you go with your wires through the pivot shaft, I found that a two step process works for me.? First I put the wires through the motor opening and seal them in place. The epoxy does not need to go into the motor, so I just silicone the wires at the motor so epoxy does not run into the motor.? Alan had a great idea to use chewing gum.? Then I feed the sealed wires through the shaft and then thread the shaft into the motor and fill with either epoxy or casting resin.? I use a casting resin with super high compressive strength. ? If you install the wires with the epoxy into the shaft first, it is a bugger to rotate the shaft into the threads because my motors have an akward bend that the wires have to make.? I have not used 101's though, just 50 lb thrust, but I think they are similar. ?Hank On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 4:09 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I made the rotating through hulls with 2x brass rods passing through into the hull.?Personally, I find these motors and in particular these through hulls the single most time consuming part of psubbing.?? Difficult to construct and maintain.?? ?http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/publication2_files/Page21512.htmhttp://www.guernseysubmarine.com/extended_files/Page24592.htm?Biggest problem is that when you have filled the?inside of the through hull with?epoxy, there is no longer any adjustment on the cable.? So?you have to make the cables fit without touching any part of the motor innards.? Some sort of modification needed im sure.? Plus the motors jam in the through hull tubes.? Oil compensation is messy and a nuisance.? ?I have seen Emile's hubless motors and these are much better, but not available to us at the moment I don't think.?I just took delivery today of 8 brand new AGM batteries...... :)?RegardsJames? On 7 June 2016 at 19:59, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: How has everyone retrofitted the MinKota's to have a 1" rotating shaft to go through the penetrators? Thank you, Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass >? Sent: Jun 07 '16 13:10 > >? I have the Minn-Kota 101,s and would like to see how those who have >? done it have passed the power cables from the oil filled motor threw >? the fitting that rotates and passes threw the hull to the inside. > >? Rick > >? On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: > >? > Brian, >? > something you could experiment with is applying epoxy to the glass >? > mat that >? > you want to adhere or on the sub itself & wait till it gets tacky >? > before applying it. >? > Then apply the rest of the epoxy later, wait till the last coat gets >? > tacky & add some more >? > glass cloth. >? > You could take your time with that process, but the epoxy is twice >? > the cost of the polyester. >? > Alan >? > >? > ------------------------- >? > FROM: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >? > >? > TO: PSubs >? > SENT: Saturday, May 28, 2016 11:20 AM >? > SUBJECT: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass >? > >? > Hank, I wanted to mention that some of my brilliant upside down >? > fiberglass work did not go that great. I did not get the adhesion >? > that I should have, some place seemed fine but other areas I didn't >? > get the resin to soak in good enough. I may try something else next >? > time. I may put an initial coat of resin on the underside, soak the >? > fiberglass and then try to compress it up there some how with a >? > plastic mold release barrier. >? > >? > Brian >? > _______________________________________________ >? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? > >? > _______________________________________________ >? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Minn Kota.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 47992 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 8 18:12:21 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 22:12:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring problem References: <372329039.620101.1465423941507.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <372329039.620101.1465423941507.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Today I was doing some final wiring and discovered if my hp compressor has the ground wire on it, ?my acoustic radio ?trips the breaker. ?What the bleep is going on? ?Nothing is grounded to the hull anymore. ? ?I am taking 24V off a 36V bank for the compressor and the Radio is also taking 24V from the same source. ?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 8 19:01:06 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 23:01:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring problem In-Reply-To: <372329039.620101.1465423941507.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <372329039.620101.1465423941507.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <372329039.620101.1465423941507.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1272935705.35698.1465426866810.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,is the compressor on when it is doing this?If not, & you are just attaching the terminals to the battery, possibly it has to do with the input capacitors on the compressor motor controller drawinglarge amounts of current.On my Kelly controller it specifies the use of a pre-charge resistor to chargeup the capacitors so that there is not a large in-rush of current that causesarcing on the switch or damages sensitive electronics.In my test system for my motor I have a circuit breaker that I close & this sendspower through the pre-charge resistor, which is wired across the switch terminals.Then I turn the main switch on.You could try attaching a resistor across the compressor to battery connection(on the positive terminal)?before attaching the compressor wire. If this workedit would indicate the problem. I use a 1k ohm 10W resistor.I am not the smartest with electronics but this may be helpful if no oneelse answers.Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2016 10:12 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring problem Today I was doing some final wiring and discovered if my hp compressor has the ground wire on it, ?my acoustic radio ?trips the breaker. ?What the bleep is going on? ?Nothing is grounded to the hull anymore. ? ?I am taking 24V off a 36V bank for the compressor and the Radio is also taking 24V from the same source. ?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 8 19:18:57 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 23:18:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring problem In-Reply-To: <1272935705.35698.1465426866810.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <372329039.620101.1465423941507.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <372329039.620101.1465423941507.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1272935705.35698.1465426866810.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <833445580.11102.1465427937925.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,It worked before? ?the only difference is the sub is not the ground anymore. ?The radio breaker trips when I turn the radio on, when I disconnect the compressor ground, the radio is fine. ?Hank On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 5:01 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,is the compressor on when it is doing this?If not, & you are just attaching the terminals to the battery, possibly it has to do with the input capacitors on the compressor motor controller drawinglarge amounts of current.On my Kelly controller it specifies the use of a pre-charge resistor to chargeup the capacitors so that there is not a large in-rush of current that causesarcing on the switch or damages sensitive electronics.In my test system for my motor I have a circuit breaker that I close & this sendspower through the pre-charge resistor, which is wired across the switch terminals.Then I turn the main switch on.You could try attaching a resistor across the compressor to battery connection(on the positive terminal)?before attaching the compressor wire. If this workedit would indicate the problem. I use a 1k ohm 10W resistor.I am not the smartest with electronics but this may be helpful if no oneelse answers.Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2016 10:12 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring problem Today I was doing some final wiring and discovered if my hp compressor has the ground wire on it, ?my acoustic radio ?trips the breaker. ?What the bleep is going on? ?Nothing is grounded to the hull anymore. ? ?I am taking 24V off a 36V bank for the compressor and the Radio is also taking 24V from the same source. ?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 8 19:53:30 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 23:53:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring problem In-Reply-To: <833445580.11102.1465427937925.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <372329039.620101.1465423941507.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <372329039.620101.1465423941507.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1272935705.35698.1465426866810.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <833445580.11102.1465427937925.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1696749009.58528.1465430010450.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> It could still be the capacitors in the compressor.If the capacitors are charged up & there is?no closed circuit for them to discharge through,then when you create a closed circuit in the radio the?capacitors could discharge through that.It might not have happened when you ground it on the sub because the whole sub couldhave absorbed that surge.If it is the capacitors then a diode in the wiring to them?would stop the current running backto the negative battery terminal through your radio.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2016 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring problem Alan,It worked before? ?the only difference is the sub is not the ground anymore. ?The radio breaker trips when I turn the radio on, when I disconnect the compressor ground, the radio is fine. ?Hank On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 5:01 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,is the compressor on when it is doing this?If not, & you are just attaching the terminals to the battery, possibly it has to do with the input capacitors on the compressor motor controller drawinglarge amounts of current.On my Kelly controller it specifies the use of a pre-charge resistor to chargeup the capacitors so that there is not a large in-rush of current that causesarcing on the switch or damages sensitive electronics.In my test system for my motor I have a circuit breaker that I close & this sendspower through the pre-charge resistor, which is wired across the switch terminals.Then I turn the main switch on.You could try attaching a resistor across the compressor to battery connection(on the positive terminal)?before attaching the compressor wire. If this workedit would indicate the problem. I use a 1k ohm 10W resistor.I am not the smartest with electronics but this may be helpful if no oneelse answers.Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2016 10:12 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring problem Today I was doing some final wiring and discovered if my hp compressor has the ground wire on it, ?my acoustic radio ?trips the breaker. ?What the bleep is going on? ?Nothing is grounded to the hull anymore. ? ?I am taking 24V off a 36V bank for the compressor and the Radio is also taking 24V from the same source. ?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 8 20:28:06 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 00:28:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring problem In-Reply-To: <1696749009.58528.1465430010450.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <372329039.620101.1465423941507.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <372329039.620101.1465423941507.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1272935705.35698.1465426866810.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <833445580.11102.1465427937925.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1696749009.58528.1465430010450.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <255922405.60745.1465432086210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,There are no capacitors on the compressor.Hank On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 5:53 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: It could still be the capacitors in the compressor.If the capacitors are charged up & there is?no closed circuit for them to discharge through,then when you create a closed circuit in the radio the?capacitors could discharge through that.It might not have happened when you ground it on the sub because the whole sub couldhave absorbed that surge.If it is the capacitors then a diode in the wiring to them?would stop the current running backto the negative battery terminal through your radio.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2016 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring problem Alan,It worked before? ?the only difference is the sub is not the ground anymore. ?The radio breaker trips when I turn the radio on, when I disconnect the compressor ground, the radio is fine. ?Hank On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 5:01 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,is the compressor on when it is doing this?If not, & you are just attaching the terminals to the battery, possibly it has to do with the input capacitors on the compressor motor controller drawinglarge amounts of current.On my Kelly controller it specifies the use of a pre-charge resistor to chargeup the capacitors so that there is not a large in-rush of current that causesarcing on the switch or damages sensitive electronics.In my test system for my motor I have a circuit breaker that I close & this sendspower through the pre-charge resistor, which is wired across the switch terminals.Then I turn the main switch on.You could try attaching a resistor across the compressor to battery connection(on the positive terminal)?before attaching the compressor wire. If this workedit would indicate the problem. I use a 1k ohm 10W resistor.I am not the smartest with electronics but this may be helpful if no oneelse answers.Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2016 10:12 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring problem Today I was doing some final wiring and discovered if my hp compressor has the ground wire on it, ?my acoustic radio ?trips the breaker. ?What the bleep is going on? ?Nothing is grounded to the hull anymore. ? ?I am taking 24V off a 36V bank for the compressor and the Radio is also taking 24V from the same source. ?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 8 21:00:34 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 01:00:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring problem In-Reply-To: <255922405.60745.1465432086210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <372329039.620101.1465423941507.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <372329039.620101.1465423941507.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1272935705.35698.1465426866810.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <833445580.11102.1465427937925.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1696749009.58528.1465430010450.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <255922405.60745.1465432086210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1660228804.70732.1465434034556.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Well that's shot down that theory then :(I would still try?adding a diode in the wiring to the compressor & see ifit solved the problem. Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2016 12:28 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring problem Alan,There are no capacitors on the compressor.Hank On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 5:53 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: It could still be the capacitors in the compressor.If the capacitors are charged up & there is?no closed circuit for them to discharge through,then when you create a closed circuit in the radio the?capacitors could discharge through that.It might not have happened when you ground it on the sub because the whole sub couldhave absorbed that surge.If it is the capacitors then a diode in the wiring to them?would stop the current running backto the negative battery terminal through your radio.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2016 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring problem Alan,It worked before? ?the only difference is the sub is not the ground anymore. ?The radio breaker trips when I turn the radio on, when I disconnect the compressor ground, the radio is fine. ?Hank On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 5:01 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,is the compressor on when it is doing this?If not, & you are just attaching the terminals to the battery, possibly it has to do with the input capacitors on the compressor motor controller drawinglarge amounts of current.On my Kelly controller it specifies the use of a pre-charge resistor to chargeup the capacitors so that there is not a large in-rush of current that causesarcing on the switch or damages sensitive electronics.In my test system for my motor I have a circuit breaker that I close & this sendspower through the pre-charge resistor, which is wired across the switch terminals.Then I turn the main switch on.You could try attaching a resistor across the compressor to battery connection(on the positive terminal)?before attaching the compressor wire. If this workedit would indicate the problem. I use a 1k ohm 10W resistor.I am not the smartest with electronics but this may be helpful if no oneelse answers.Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2016 10:12 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring problem Today I was doing some final wiring and discovered if my hp compressor has the ground wire on it, ?my acoustic radio ?trips the breaker. ?What the bleep is going on? ?Nothing is grounded to the hull anymore. ? ?I am taking 24V off a 36V bank for the compressor and the Radio is also taking 24V from the same source. ?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 8 21:57:59 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 01:57:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring problem In-Reply-To: <255922405.60745.1465432086210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <372329039.620101.1465423941507.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <372329039.620101.1465423941507.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1272935705.35698.1465426866810.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <833445580.11102.1465427937925.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1696749009.58528.1465430010450.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <255922405.60745.1465432086210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <604607452.119780.1465437479673.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,is this how it is wired, see attachment ( diagram not to professional standard)Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2016 12:28 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring problem Alan,There are no capacitors on the compressor.Hank On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 5:53 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: It could still be the capacitors in the compressor.If the capacitors are charged up & there is?no closed circuit for them to discharge through,then when you create a closed circuit in the radio the?capacitors could discharge through that.It might not have happened when you ground it on the sub because the whole sub couldhave absorbed that surge.If it is the capacitors then a diode in the wiring to them?would stop the current running backto the negative battery terminal through your radio.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2016 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring problem Alan,It worked before? ?the only difference is the sub is not the ground anymore. ?The radio breaker trips when I turn the radio on, when I disconnect the compressor ground, the radio is fine. ?Hank On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 5:01 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,is the compressor on when it is doing this?If not, & you are just attaching the terminals to the battery, possibly it has to do with the input capacitors on the compressor motor controller drawinglarge amounts of current.On my Kelly controller it specifies the use of a pre-charge resistor to chargeup the capacitors so that there is not a large in-rush of current that causesarcing on the switch or damages sensitive electronics.In my test system for my motor I have a circuit breaker that I close & this sendspower through the pre-charge resistor, which is wired across the switch terminals.Then I turn the main switch on.You could try attaching a resistor across the compressor to battery connection(on the positive terminal)?before attaching the compressor wire. If this workedit would indicate the problem. I use a 1k ohm 10W resistor.I am not the smartest with electronics but this may be helpful if no oneelse answers.Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2016 10:12 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring problem Today I was doing some final wiring and discovered if my hp compressor has the ground wire on it, ?my acoustic radio ?trips the breaker. ?What the bleep is going on? ?Nothing is grounded to the hull anymore. ? ?I am taking 24V off a 36V bank for the compressor and the Radio is also taking 24V from the same source. ?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Hank's wiring.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 223296 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 8 22:26:35 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2016 20:26:35 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring problem In-Reply-To: <372329039.620101.1465423941507.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <372329039.620101.1465423941507.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <372329039.620101.1465423941507.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, do a continuity check between battery negative and the hull / chassis / safety ground. There should be no continuity from either battery terminal. If there is, the DC power supply common is tied down to chassis at one of the devices. Check the radio antenna as a possible culprit. Next, check the potential of each power supply connection, not only between + and - at the device, but with respect to each other as well. (You mention tapping 24 V off a 36 V battery - any chance you're between +24 and "0" on one device and +36 and +12 on the other?) What is the breaker type? When you say it doesn't work with a ground wire connected - you are referring to a hull connection? Sean On June 8, 2016 4:12:21 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Today I was doing some final wiring and discovered if my hp compressor >has the ground wire on it, ?my acoustic radio ?trips the breaker. ?What >the bleep is going on? ?Nothing is grounded to the hull anymore. ? ?I >am taking 24V off a 36V bank for the compressor and the Radio is also >taking 24V from the same source. ?Hank > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 9 08:18:35 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 12:18:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring problem In-Reply-To: References: <372329039.620101.1465423941507.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <372329039.620101.1465423941507.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1240323934.91399.1465474715265.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi AlanYes that is how it is wired. Hi Sean,The radio works perfect, well I assume, I should say it turns on fine as long as the compressor ground is disconnected. ?When I turn the radio on with the compressor ground connected the radio breaker trips. ?The breakers in Gamma are an aviation ?style breaker, they look like what you have in you house breaker panel. If I remove the radio from the hull, I can turn it on just fine with the compressor ground connected. ? I am wondering if my radio is shorting out so there is pos current in the cabinet and the compressor is providing a ground for it to short out.I will instal the transducer and do some more testing, I can put the surface radio transducer on top of the sub transducer and test to be sure the radio is actually working still. ?Hmm now I am wondering if I have the power reversed on the compressor and I am turning the sub into a positive ground, the compressor should still work with polarity reversed. ?Thanks' guys.Hank On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 8:26 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, do a continuity check between battery negative and the hull / chassis / safety ground. There should be no continuity from either battery terminal.? If there is, the DC power supply common is tied down to chassis at one of the devices.? Check the radio antenna as a possible culprit.Next, check the potential of each power supply connection, not only between + and - at the device, but with respect to each other as well. (You mention tapping 24 V off a 36 V battery - any chance you're between +24 and "0" on one device and +36 and +12 on the other?)What is the breaker type?When you say it doesn't work with a ground wire connected - you are referring to a hull connection?Sean On June 8, 2016 4:12:21 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Today I was doing some final wiring and discovered if my hp compressor has the ground wire on it, ?my acoustic radio ?trips the breaker. ?What the bleep is going on? ?Nothing is grounded to the hull anymore. ? ?I am taking 24V off a 36V bank for the compressor and the Radio is also taking 24V from the same source. ?Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 9 08:32:18 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 06:32:18 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring problem In-Reply-To: <1240323934.91399.1465474715265.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <372329039.620101.1465423941507.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <372329039.620101.1465423941507.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1240323934.91399.1465474715265.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <97967349-1a84-4020-9f8e-098795349087@email.android.com> Just to confirm - when you say "compressor ground", you are referring to the chassis / safety earth (which should be connected to the hull) and not the power supply negative (which should not be)? Sean On June 9, 2016 6:18:35 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi AlanYes that is how it is wired. >Hi Sean,The radio works perfect, well I assume, I should say it turns >on fine as long as the compressor ground is disconnected. ?When I turn >the radio on with the compressor ground connected the radio breaker >trips. ?The breakers in Gamma are an aviation ?style breaker, they look >like what you have in you house breaker panel. If I remove the radio >from the hull, I can turn it on just fine with the compressor ground >connected. ? I am wondering if my radio is shorting out so there is pos >current in the cabinet and the compressor is providing a ground for it >to short out.I will instal the transducer and do some more testing, I >can put the surface radio transducer on top of the sub transducer and >test to be sure the radio is actually working still. ?Hmm now I am >wondering if I have the power reversed on the compressor and I am >turning the sub into a positive ground, the compressor should still >work with polarity reversed. ?Thanks' guys.Hank > >On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 8:26 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Hank, do a continuity check between battery negative and the hull / >chassis / safety ground. There should be no continuity from either >battery terminal.? If there is, the DC power supply common is tied down >to chassis at one of the devices.? Check the radio antenna as a >possible culprit.Next, check the potential of each power supply >connection, not only between + and - at the device, but with respect to >each other as well. (You mention tapping 24 V off a 36 V battery - any >chance you're between +24 and "0" on one device and +36 and +12 on the >other?)What is the breaker type?When you say it doesn't work with a >ground wire connected - you are referring to a hull connection?Sean > > >On June 8, 2016 4:12:21 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >Today I was doing some final wiring and discovered if my hp compressor >has the ground wire on it, ?my acoustic radio ?trips the breaker. ?What >the bleep is going on? ?Nothing is grounded to the hull anymore. ? ?I >am taking 24V off a 36V bank for the compressor and the Radio is also >taking 24V from the same source. ?Hank >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 9 09:17:28 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 08:17:28 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?fiberglass?= In-Reply-To: <498723249.446708.1465398575857.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160527162051.EE36D09F@m0087794.ppops.net> <25373669.648944.1464393186664.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <20160607185910.16407.qmail@server268.com> <1362147510.332557.1465385546169.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <867116019.290817.1465385941662.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <498723249.446708.1465398575857.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20160609131728.14099.qmail@server268.com> How does the rotator attach to the motor? Thank you, Scott Waters > -------Original Message------- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass > Sent: Jun 08 '16 10:14 > > James, > Yes I always thread in penetrators now, right beside the brush on each > side, super easy! > As for taking the motor apart, the wires are coiled inside to allow > for removing the end cap with the brushes. Its a bitch, and I hate it! > but it is better than try to rotate the wires in the tight turn in the > housing. Of coarse a test assemble to ensure the wire length works > before epoxy is important. There is potential for damaging a wire and > not knowing it is damaged. Maybe my motors have a tighter turn in them > than the 101's. Either way, I like the way I do it now. > Hank > ps; nice picture > > On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 8:58 AM, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank. What if you have to take the motors apart for anything? They are > potted now and you get the same problem as I have\had?? I made a > brilliant picture. > > The problem for me is getting the cables from the potted shafts onto > the spade terminals while trying to push the brushed back through a > 2mm hole.... Probably the same awkward bend as you mentioned. > > If I did this again, I would probably have the cables threaded and > going outside and then back into the hull through a standard > penetrator. If I read it right that's what you've done. And I might > even do away with the rotating motors and have 4 of them static. > > ? > > On 8 June 2016 at 12:39, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > O ya one more thing, to remove the original shaft, heat it up first, > > there seems to be some sort of lock tight on the threads. > > Hank > > > > On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 5:35 AM, hank pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > I have opted for drilling and tapping in penetrators rather then run > > the wires through the shaft opening. If you go with your wires > > through the pivot shaft, I found that a two step process works for > > me. First I put the wires through the motor opening and seal them in > > place. The epoxy does not need to go into the motor, so I just > > silicone the wires at the motor so epoxy does not run into the > > motor. Alan had a great idea to use chewing gum. Then I feed the > > sealed wires through the shaft and then thread the shaft into the > > motor and fill with either epoxy or casting resin. I use a casting > > resin with super high compressive strength. If you install the wires > > with the epoxy into the shaft first, it is a bugger to rotate the > > shaft into the threads because my motors have an akward bend that > > the wires have to make. I have not used 101's though, just 50 lb > > thrust, but I think they are similar. > > Hank > > > > On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 4:09 AM, James Frankland via > > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > I made the rotating through hulls with 2x brass rods passing through > > into the hull. > > > > Personally, I find these motors and in particular these through > > hulls the single most time consuming part of psubbing. Difficult to > > construct and maintain. > > > > http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/publication2_files/Page21512.htm > > http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/extended_files/Page24592.htm > > > > Biggest problem is that when you have filled the inside of the > > through hull with epoxy, there is no longer any adjustment on the > > cable. So you have to make the cables fit without touching any part > > of the motor innards. Some sort of modification needed im sure. Plus > > the motors jam in the through hull tubes. Oil compensation is messy > > and a nuisance. > > > > I have seen Emile's hubless motors and these are much better, but > > not available to us at the moment I don't think. > > > > I just took delivery today of 8 brand new AGM batteries...... :) > > > > Regards > > James > > > > On 7 June 2016 at 19:59, via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > >> How has everyone retrofitted the MinKota's to have a 1" rotating > >> shaft to go through the penetrators? > >> > >> Thank you, > >> Scott Waters > >> > >>> -------Original Message------- > >>> From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > >> > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >> > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass > >>> Sent: Jun 07 '16 13:10 > >>> > >>> I have the Minn-Kota 101,s and would like to see how those who > >> have > >>> done it have passed the power cables from the oil filled motor > >> threw > >>> the fitting that rotates and passes threw the hull to the > >> inside. > >>> > >>> Rick > >>> > >>> On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Alan James via > >> Personal_Submersibles > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Brian, > >>>> something you could experiment with is applying epoxy to the > >> glass > >>>> mat that > >>>> you want to adhere or on the sub itself & wait till it gets > >> tacky > >>>> before applying it. > >>>> Then apply the rest of the epoxy later, wait till the last > >> coat gets > >>>> tacky & add some more > >>>> glass cloth. > >>>> You could take your time with that process, but the epoxy is > >> twice > >>>> the cost of the polyester. > >>>> Alan > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------- > >>>> FROM: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > >>>> > >>>> TO: PSubs > >>>> SENT: Saturday, May 28, 2016 11:20 AM > >>>> SUBJECT: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass > >> > >>>> > >>>> Hank, I wanted to mention that some of my brilliant upside > >> down > >>>> fiberglass work did not go that great. I did not get the > >> adhesion > >>>> that I should have, some place seemed fine but other areas I > >> didn't > >>>> get the resin to soak in good enough. I may try something > >> else next > >>>> time. I may put an initial coat of resin on the underside, > >> soak the > >>>> fiberglass and then try to compress it up there some how with > >> a > >>>> plastic mold release barrier. > >>>> > >>>> Brian > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>> > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>> > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 9 09:26:35 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 06:26:35 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring problem In-Reply-To: <97967349-1a84-4020-9f8e-098795349087@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1465478795.24929.YahooMailMobile@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> The compressor ground goes to negative on battery and compressor chassis is bolted to the hull. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 9 10:05:46 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 15:05:46 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass In-Reply-To: <20160609131728.14099.qmail@server268.com> References: <20160527162051.EE36D09F@m0087794.ppops.net> <25373669.648944.1464393186664.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <20160607185910.16407.qmail@server268.com> <1362147510.332557.1465385546169.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <867116019.290817.1465385941662.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <498723249.446708.1465398575857.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <20160609131728.14099.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: Assuming you mean the penetrator that passes through the hull? It attaches to the motor by screwing into the existing threaded hole where the original fibreglass shaft attached. On 9 June 2016 at 14:17, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > How does the rotator attach to the motor? > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass > > Sent: Jun 08 '16 10:14 > > > > James, > > Yes I always thread in penetrators now, right beside the brush on each > > side, super easy! > > As for taking the motor apart, the wires are coiled inside to allow > > for removing the end cap with the brushes. Its a bitch, and I hate it! > > but it is better than try to rotate the wires in the tight turn in the > > housing. Of coarse a test assemble to ensure the wire length works > > before epoxy is important. There is potential for damaging a wire and > > not knowing it is damaged. Maybe my motors have a tighter turn in them > > than the 101's. Either way, I like the way I do it now. > > Hank > > ps; nice picture > > > > On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 8:58 AM, James Frankland via > > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Hank. What if you have to take the motors apart for anything? They are > > potted now and you get the same problem as I have\had?? I made a > > brilliant picture. > > > > The problem for me is getting the cables from the potted shafts onto > > the spade terminals while trying to push the brushed back through a > > 2mm hole.... Probably the same awkward bend as you mentioned. > > > > If I did this again, I would probably have the cables threaded and > > going outside and then back into the hull through a standard > > penetrator. If I read it right that's what you've done. And I might > > even do away with the rotating motors and have 4 of them static. > > > > ? > > > > On 8 June 2016 at 12:39, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > > O ya one more thing, to remove the original shaft, heat it up first, > > > there seems to be some sort of lock tight on the threads. > > > Hank > > > > > > On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 5:35 AM, hank pronk via > > > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > I have opted for drilling and tapping in penetrators rather then run > > > the wires through the shaft opening. If you go with your wires > > > through the pivot shaft, I found that a two step process works for > > > me. First I put the wires through the motor opening and seal them in > > > place. The epoxy does not need to go into the motor, so I just > > > silicone the wires at the motor so epoxy does not run into the > > > motor. Alan had a great idea to use chewing gum. Then I feed the > > > sealed wires through the shaft and then thread the shaft into the > > > motor and fill with either epoxy or casting resin. I use a casting > > > resin with super high compressive strength. If you install the wires > > > with the epoxy into the shaft first, it is a bugger to rotate the > > > shaft into the threads because my motors have an akward bend that > > > the wires have to make. I have not used 101's though, just 50 lb > > > thrust, but I think they are similar. > > > Hank > > > > > > On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 4:09 AM, James Frankland via > > > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > I made the rotating through hulls with 2x brass rods passing through > > > into the hull. > > > > > > Personally, I find these motors and in particular these through > > > hulls the single most time consuming part of psubbing. Difficult to > > > construct and maintain. > > > > > > http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/publication2_files/Page21512.htm > > > http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/extended_files/Page24592.htm > > > > > > Biggest problem is that when you have filled the inside of the > > > through hull with epoxy, there is no longer any adjustment on the > > > cable. So you have to make the cables fit without touching any part > > > of the motor innards. Some sort of modification needed im sure. Plus > > > the motors jam in the through hull tubes. Oil compensation is messy > > > and a nuisance. > > > > > > I have seen Emile's hubless motors and these are much better, but > > > not available to us at the moment I don't think. > > > > > > I just took delivery today of 8 brand new AGM batteries...... :) > > > > > > Regards > > > James > > > > > > On 7 June 2016 at 19:59, via Personal_Submersibles > > > wrote: > > > > > >> How has everyone retrofitted the MinKota's to have a 1" rotating > > >> shaft to go through the penetrators? > > >> > > >> Thank you, > > >> Scott Waters > > >> > > >>> -------Original Message------- > > >>> From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > > >> > > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > >> > > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass > > >>> Sent: Jun 07 '16 13:10 > > >>> > > >>> I have the Minn-Kota 101,s and would like to see how those who > > >> have > > >>> done it have passed the power cables from the oil filled motor > > >> threw > > >>> the fitting that rotates and passes threw the hull to the > > >> inside. > > >>> > > >>> Rick > > >>> > > >>> On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Alan James via > > >> Personal_Submersibles > > >>> wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> Brian, > > >>>> something you could experiment with is applying epoxy to the > > >> glass > > >>>> mat that > > >>>> you want to adhere or on the sub itself & wait till it gets > > >> tacky > > >>>> before applying it. > > >>>> Then apply the rest of the epoxy later, wait till the last > > >> coat gets > > >>>> tacky & add some more > > >>>> glass cloth. > > >>>> You could take your time with that process, but the epoxy is > > >> twice > > >>>> the cost of the polyester. > > >>>> Alan > > >>>> > > >>>> ------------------------- > > >>>> FROM: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > >>>> > > >>>> TO: PSubs > > >>>> SENT: Saturday, May 28, 2016 11:20 AM > > >>>> SUBJECT: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass > > >> > > >>>> > > >>>> Hank, I wanted to mention that some of my brilliant upside > > >> down > > >>>> fiberglass work did not go that great. I did not get the > > >> adhesion > > >>>> that I should have, some place seemed fine but other areas I > > >> didn't > > >>>> get the resin to soak in good enough. I may try something > > >> else next > > >>>> time. I may put an initial coat of resin on the underside, > > >> soak the > > >>>> fiberglass and then try to compress it up there some how with > > >> a > > >>>> plastic mold release barrier. > > >>>> > > >>>> Brian > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >>>> > > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >>>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >>>> > > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >>> > > >>> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 9 10:09:37 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 09:09:37 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?fiberglass?= In-Reply-To: References: <20160527162051.EE36D09F@m0087794.ppops.net> <20160607185910.16407.qmail@server268.com> <1362147510.332557.1465385546169.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <867116019.290817.1465385941662.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <498723249.446708.1465398575857.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <20160609131728.14099.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: <20160609140937.13338.qmail@server268.com> haha. Ok. Easy enough. I guess I was expecting a harder deal. Thank you, Scott Waters > -------Original Message------- > From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass > Sent: Jun 09 '16 09:08 > > Assuming you mean the penetrator that passes through the hull? It > attaches to the motor by screwing into the existing threaded hole > where the original fibreglass shaft attached. > > On 9 June 2016 at 14:17, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > How does the rotator attach to the motor? > > > > Thank you, > > Scott Waters > > > >> -------Original Message------- > >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > > >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass > > > >> Sent: Jun 08 '16 10:14 > >> > >> James, > >> Yes I always thread in penetrators now, right beside the brush > > on each > >> side, super easy! > >> As for taking the motor apart, the wires are coiled inside to > > allow > >> for removing the end cap with the brushes. Its a bitch, and I > > hate it! > >> but it is better than try to rotate the wires in the tight turn > > in the > >> housing. Of coarse a test assemble to ensure the wire length > > works > >> before epoxy is important. There is potential for damaging a > > wire and > >> not knowing it is damaged. Maybe my motors have a tighter turn > > in them > >> than the 101's. Either way, I like the way I do it now. > >> Hank > >> ps; nice picture > >> > >> On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 8:58 AM, James Frankland via > >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> > >> Hank. What if you have to take the motors apart for anything? > > They are > >> potted now and you get the same problem as I have\had?? I made a > >> brilliant picture. > >> > >> The problem for me is getting the cables from the potted shafts > > onto > >> the spade terminals while trying to push the brushed back > > through a > >> 2mm hole.... Probably the same awkward bend as you mentioned. > >> > >> If I did this again, I would probably have the cables threaded > > and > >> going outside and then back into the hull through a standard > >> penetrator. If I read it right that's what you've done. And I > > might > >> even do away with the rotating motors and have 4 of them static. > >> > >> ? > >> > > > >> On 8 June 2016 at 12:39, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > >> wrote: > >> > >> > O ya one more thing, to remove the original shaft, heat it up > > first, > >> > there seems to be some sort of lock tight on the threads. > >> > Hank > >> > > >> > On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 5:35 AM, hank pronk via > >> > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> > > >> > I have opted for drilling and tapping in penetrators rather > > then run > >> > the wires through the shaft opening. If you go with your wires > >> > through the pivot shaft, I found that a two step process works > > for > >> > me. First I put the wires through the motor opening and seal > > them in > >> > place. The epoxy does not need to go into the motor, so I just > >> > silicone the wires at the motor so epoxy does not run into the > >> > motor. Alan had a great idea to use chewing gum. Then I feed > > the > >> > sealed wires through the shaft and then thread the shaft into > > the > >> > motor and fill with either epoxy or casting resin. I use a > > casting > >> > resin with super high compressive strength. If you install the > > wires > >> > with the epoxy into the shaft first, it is a bugger to rotate > > the > >> > shaft into the threads because my motors have an akward bend > > that > >> > the wires have to make. I have not used 101's though, just 50 > > lb > >> > thrust, but I think they are similar. > >> > Hank > >> > > >> > On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 4:09 AM, James Frankland via > >> > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> > > >> > I made the rotating through hulls with 2x brass rods passing > > through > >> > into the hull. > >> > > >> > Personally, I find these motors and in particular these > > through > >> > hulls the single most time consuming part of psubbing. > > Difficult to > >> > construct and maintain. > >> > > >> > > > http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/publication2_files/Page21512.htm > >> > http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/extended_files/Page24592.htm > >> > > >> > Biggest problem is that when you have filled the inside of the > >> > through hull with epoxy, there is no longer any adjustment on > > the > >> > cable. So you have to make the cables fit without touching any > > part > >> > of the motor innards. Some sort of modification needed im > > sure. Plus > >> > the motors jam in the through hull tubes. Oil compensation is > > messy > >> > and a nuisance. > >> > > >> > I have seen Emile's hubless motors and these are much better, > > but > >> > not available to us at the moment I don't think. > >> > > >> > I just took delivery today of 8 brand new AGM batteries...... > > :) > >> > > >> > Regards > >> > James > >> > > >> > On 7 June 2016 at 19:59, via Personal_Submersibles > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> >> How has everyone retrofitted the MinKota's to have a 1" > > rotating > >> >> shaft to go through the penetrators? > >> >> > >> >> Thank you, > >> >> Scott Waters > >> >> > >> >>> -------Original Message------- > >> >>> From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > >> >> > >> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >> >> > >> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass > >> >>> Sent: Jun 07 '16 13:10 > >> >>> > >> >>> I have the Minn-Kota 101,s and would like to see how those > > who > >> >> have > >> >>> done it have passed the power cables from the oil filled > > motor > >> >> threw > >> >>> the fitting that rotates and passes threw the hull to the > >> >> inside. > >> >>> > >> >>> Rick > >> >>> > >> >>> On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Alan James via > >> >> Personal_Submersibles > >> >>> wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>>> Brian, > >> >>>> something you could experiment with is applying epoxy to > > the > >> >> glass > >> >>>> mat that > >> >>>> you want to adhere or on the sub itself & wait till it gets > >> >> tacky > >> >>>> before applying it. > >> >>>> Then apply the rest of the epoxy later, wait till the last > >> >> coat gets > >> >>>> tacky & add some more > >> >>>> glass cloth. > >> >>>> You could take your time with that process, but the epoxy > > is > >> >> twice > >> >>>> the cost of the polyester. > >> >>>> Alan > >> >>>> > >> >>>> ------------------------- > >> >>>> FROM: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > >> >>>> > >> >>>> TO: PSubs > >> >>>> SENT: Saturday, May 28, 2016 11:20 AM > >> >>>> SUBJECT: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass > >> >> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Hank, I wanted to mention that some of my brilliant upside > >> >> down > >> >>>> fiberglass work did not go that great. I did not get the > >> >> adhesion > >> >>>> that I should have, some place seemed fine but other areas > > I > >> >> didn't > >> >>>> get the resin to soak in good enough. I may try something > >> >> else next > >> >>>> time. I may put an initial coat of resin on the underside, > >> >> soak the > >> >>>> fiberglass and then try to compress it up there some how > > with > >> >> a > >> >>>> plastic mold release barrier. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Brian > >> >>>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> >>>> > >> >> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> >>>> > >> >>>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> >>>> > >> >> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> >> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 9 12:04:43 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 10:04:43 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring problem In-Reply-To: <1465478795.24929.YahooMailMobile@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1465478795.24929.YahooMailMobile@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Then that is not a "ground". It is a DC power supply common / negative. In automotive systems, these are at the same potential, because the battery negative is tied to the vehicle chassis. In marine systems, they must be isolated. The consequence of this is that the potential of both battery terminals can then float with respect to the safety ground - the potential difference is instantaneously indeterminate. This is referred to as "common-mode" voltage, as both positive and negative DC rails float at the same time, so that their difference is constant. Your installed equipment will likely have a common mode voltage rating (or if not a rating, it still has a physical limit) beyond which it cannot insulate between one of the power terminals and the safety ground, which is at earth potential. One possible solution to this is to tie the power supply common (battery negative) to the hull / earth ground as in an automotive system, but to do so through a very high resistance, such that the battery gains a reference potential, limiting the common-mode drift, but will still not permit a short-circuit current to flow in the event of e.g. connecting your positive battery terminal to the hull. My preference is to maintain complete isolation, but if that corrects the problem it is diagnostically useful. Assuming that there is no continuity between either supply terminal and your actual "ground" (the hull), I would check the polarity as you suggested, and also check the open circuit resistance of both devices at their power supply inputs. Sean On June 9, 2016 7:26:35 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >The compressor ground goes to negative on battery and compressor >chassis is bolted to the hull. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 9 16:36:08 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 10:36:08 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: <20160607190013.20054.qmail@server268.com> References: <6bty8uf3ww7i2fecqxrl7qcu.1464394672854@email.android.com> <1553742741.665367.1464396816588.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5748ff78.1314620a.8ffad.ffffa93e@mx.google.com> <38af2636-316a-31ac-168d-6f68377ec99a@ohiohills.com> <20160607190013.20054.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: Does anyone know if Vaseline will harm rubber O rings? Rick On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 9:00 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > > I never did pot my VHF antenna and it works great. I did however pot my > GPS and I just filled it with epoxy and it works great too. > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation > > Sent: Jun 07 '16 13:05 > > > > I would like to find out from anyone who has an external VHF antenna > > how they potted what looks like a filter at the base of the antenna. > > > > Rick > > > > On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 3:25 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > I just got introduced to a free cloud CAD program by one of the SMEs > > > who is volunteering on Shackleton. The UI is very similar to a > > > simplified Autocad, it seems to share a lot of the same commands. > > > I'm sure there are limitations, but this seems to have three major > > > things going for it; it's not too hard, it allows online > > > collaboration between multiple designers because its in the cloud, > > > and its FREE. > > > > > > https://www.onshape.com/ > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > Alec > > > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Michael Holt via > > > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > >> I have Delftship, a freebie but apparently comprehensive thing > > >> intended for surface ship design. (It was originally called > > >> Freeships, I think.) I have never been able to us it because the > > >> manual is damn near incomprehensible (it doesn't use some of the > > >> terminology I'm accustomed to seeing). If anyone can get it to > > >> do something useful, send me a personal message! > > >> > > >> Mike > > >> > > >> --- > > >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus > > >> software. > > >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 9 16:48:41 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 20:48:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: References: <6bty8uf3ww7i2fecqxrl7qcu.1464394672854@email.android.com> <1553742741.665367.1464396816588.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5748ff78.1314620a.8ffad.ffffa93e@mx.google.com> <38af2636-316a-31ac-168d-6f68377ec99a@ohiohills.com> <20160607190013.20054.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: <699943449.363935.1465505322071.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Rick,Apparently, vaseline will cause o-rings to crack over time. ?Your supposed to use silicone grease. ?I use what ever is in the grease gun.Hank On Thursday, June 9, 2016 2:36 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Does anyone know if Vaseline will harm rubber O rings? Rick On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 9:00 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, I never did pot my VHF antenna and it works great. I did however pot my GPS and I just filled it with epoxy and it works great too. Thank you, Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? Sent: Jun 07 '16 13:05 > >? I would like to find out from anyone who has an external VHF antenna >? how they potted what looks like a filter at the base of the antenna. > >? Rick > >? On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 3:25 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: > >? > Hi everyone, >? > >? > I just got introduced to a free cloud CAD program by one of the SMEs >? > who is volunteering on Shackleton. The UI is very similar to a >? > simplified Autocad, it seems to share a lot of the same commands. >? > I'm sure there are limitations, but this seems to have three major >? > things going for it; it's not too hard, it allows online >? > collaboration between multiple designers because its in the cloud, >? > and its FREE. >? > >? > https://www.onshape.com/ >? > >? > Best, >? > >? > Alec >? > >? > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Michael Holt via >? > Personal_Submersibles wrote: >? > >? >> I have Delftship, a freebie but apparently comprehensive thing >? >> intended for surface ship design. (It was originally called >? >> Freeships, I think.) I have never been able to us it because the >? >> manual is damn near incomprehensible (it doesn't use some of the >? >> terminology I'm accustomed to seeing). If anyone can get it to >? >> do something useful, send me a personal message! >? >> >? >> Mike >? >> >? >> --- >? >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus >? >> software. >? >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >? >> >? >> _______________________________________________ >? >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? > >? > _______________________________________________ >? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 9 17:09:24 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 15:09:24 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: References: <6bty8uf3ww7i2fecqxrl7qcu.1464394672854@email.android.com> <1553742741.665367.1464396816588.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5748ff78.1314620a.8ffad.ffffa93e@mx.google.com> <38af2636-316a-31ac-168d-6f68377ec99a@ohiohills.com> <20160607190013.20054.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: Natural rubber, chloroprene rubber, or "rubber" (nitrile etc.)? The Parker O-ring Handbook has a good material compatibility table. Vaseline is a mixture of heavy hydrocarbon chains, longer than 25 or so. The line item for "Hydrocarbons, Saturated" is probably the closest fit, for which Parker recommends their N0674 material (nitrile) in 70 durometer. Thankfully, these are the most common O-rings you can find. Sean On June 9, 2016 2:36:08 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Does anyone know if Vaseline will harm rubber O rings? > >Rick > >On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 9:00 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < >personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Rick, >> >> I never did pot my VHF antenna and it works great. I did however pot >my >> GPS and I just filled it with epoxy and it works great too. >> >> Thank you, >> Scott Waters >> >> > -------Original Message------- >> > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >> > Sent: Jun 07 '16 13:05 >> > >> > I would like to find out from anyone who has an external VHF >antenna >> > how they potted what looks like a filter at the base of the >antenna. >> > >> > Rick >> > >> > On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 3:25 AM, Alec Smyth via >Personal_Submersibles >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Hi everyone, >> > > >> > > I just got introduced to a free cloud CAD program by one of the >SMEs >> > > who is volunteering on Shackleton. The UI is very similar to a >> > > simplified Autocad, it seems to share a lot of the same >commands. >> > > I'm sure there are limitations, but this seems to have three >major >> > > things going for it; it's not too hard, it allows online >> > > collaboration between multiple designers because its in the >cloud, >> > > and its FREE. >> > > >> > > https://www.onshape.com/ >> > > >> > > Best, >> > > >> > > Alec >> > > >> > > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Michael Holt via >> > > Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > > >> > >> I have Delftship, a freebie but apparently comprehensive thing >> > >> intended for surface ship design. (It was originally called >> > >> Freeships, I think.) I have never been able to us it because >the >> > >> manual is damn near incomprehensible (it doesn't use some of >the >> > >> terminology I'm accustomed to seeing). If anyone can get it to >> > >> do something useful, send me a personal message! >> > >> >> > >> Mike >> > >> >> > >> --- >> > >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus >> > >> software. >> > >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> > >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 9 17:23:12 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 09:23:12 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: References: <6bty8uf3ww7i2fecqxrl7qcu.1464394672854@email.android.com> <1553742741.665367.1464396816588.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5748ff78.1314620a.8ffad.ffffa93e@mx.google.com> <38af2636-316a-31ac-168d-6f68377ec99a@ohiohills.com> <20160607190013.20054.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: <5759de35.0436620a.ba2d.ffffbcfa@mx.google.com> There was a young married couple that didn?t know the difference between Vaseline and putty. All their windows fell out. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 10 June 2016 8:36 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Does anyone know if Vaseline will harm rubber O rings? Rick On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 9:00 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, I never did pot my VHF antenna and it works great. I did however pot my GPS and I just filled it with epoxy and it works great too. Thank you, Scott Waters > -------Original Message------- > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation > Sent: Jun 07 '16 13:05 > > I would like to find out from anyone who has an external VHF antenna > how they potted what looks like a filter at the base of the antenna. > > Rick > > On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 3:25 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > > > > I just got introduced to a free cloud CAD program by one of the SMEs > > who is volunteering on Shackleton. The UI is very similar to a > > simplified Autocad, it seems to share a lot of the same commands. > > I'm sure there are limitations, but this seems to have three major > > things going for it; it's not too hard, it allows online > > collaboration between multiple designers because its in the cloud, > > and its FREE. > > > > https://www.onshape.com/ > > > > Best, > > > > Alec > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Michael Holt via > > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > >> I have Delftship, a freebie but apparently comprehensive thing > >> intended for surface ship design. (It was originally called > >> Freeships, I think.) I have never been able to us it because the > >> manual is damn near incomprehensible (it doesn't use some of the > >> terminology I'm accustomed to seeing). If anyone can get it to > >> do something useful, send me a personal message! > >> > >> Mike > >> > >> --- > >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus > >> software. > >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 9 17:26:07 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 21:26:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: <5759de35.0436620a.ba2d.ffffbcfa@mx.google.com> References: <6bty8uf3ww7i2fecqxrl7qcu.1464394672854@email.android.com> <1553742741.665367.1464396816588.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5748ff78.1314620a.8ffad.ffffa93e@mx.google.com> <38af2636-316a-31ac-168d-6f68377ec99a@ohiohills.com> <20160607190013.20054.qmail@server268.com> <5759de35.0436620a.ba2d.ffffbcfa@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1916501197.382883.1465507567650.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Gee, I hope they alright! On Thursday, June 9, 2016 3:23 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv0490386753 #yiv0490386753 -- _filtered #yiv0490386753 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0490386753 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv0490386753 #yiv0490386753 p.yiv0490386753MsoNormal, #yiv0490386753 li.yiv0490386753MsoNormal, #yiv0490386753 div.yiv0490386753MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv0490386753 a:link, #yiv0490386753 span.yiv0490386753MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0490386753 a:visited, #yiv0490386753 span.yiv0490386753MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0490386753 span.yiv0490386753EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv0490386753 .yiv0490386753MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv0490386753 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv0490386753 div.yiv0490386753WordSection1 {}#yiv0490386753 There was a young married couple that didn?t know the difference between Vaseline and putty.All their windows fell out. ? ? ? ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 10 June 2016 8:36 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation ?Does anyone know if Vaseline will harm rubber O rings?Rick ?On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 9:00 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Rick, I never did pot my VHF antenna and it works great. I did however pot my GPS and I just filled it with epoxy and it works great too. Thank you, Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? Sent: Jun 07 '16 13:05 > >? I would like to find out from anyone who has an external VHF antenna >? how they potted what looks like a filter at the base of the antenna. > >? Rick > >? On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 3:25 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: > >? > Hi everyone, >? > >? > I just got introduced to a free cloud CAD program by one of the SMEs >? > who is volunteering on Shackleton. The UI is very similar to a >? > simplified Autocad, it seems to share a lot of the same commands. >? > I'm sure there are limitations, but this seems to have three major >? > things going for it; it's not too hard, it allows online >? > collaboration between multiple designers because its in the cloud, >? > and its FREE. >? > >? > https://www.onshape.com/ >? > >? > Best, >? > >? > Alec >? > >? > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Michael Holt via >? > Personal_Submersibles wrote: >? > >? >> I have Delftship, a freebie but apparently comprehensive thing >? >> intended for surface ship design. (It was originally called >? >> Freeships, I think.) I have never been able to us it because the >? >> manual is damn near incomprehensible (it doesn't use some of the >? >> terminology I'm accustomed to seeing). If anyone can get it to >? >> do something useful, send me a personal message! >? >> >? >> Mike >? >> >? >> --- >? >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus >? >> software. >? >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >? >> >? >> _______________________________________________ >? >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? > >? > _______________________________________________ >? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 9 17:59:30 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 11:59:30 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: <1916501197.382883.1465507567650.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <6bty8uf3ww7i2fecqxrl7qcu.1464394672854@email.android.com> <1553742741.665367.1464396816588.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5748ff78.1314620a.8ffad.ffffa93e@mx.google.com> <38af2636-316a-31ac-168d-6f68377ec99a@ohiohills.com> <20160607190013.20054.qmail@server268.com> <5759de35.0436620a.ba2d.ffffbcfa@mx.google.com> <1916501197.382883.1465507567650.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sorry, I should of been a little clearer. I have some heavy steel rings that I made and welded one to the battery pod and one to the end cap that has an O ring groove in it. Since they are not stainless, I need to keep something on the bare steel to keep the oxygen off them so they don't rust. I have been using silicone on them but my intention was to see if I could use something else less expensive but still use the proper silicone on the O rings and wanted to know if Vaseline would work. So far, the Vaseline has been working on all my windows but I better re check em just encase! Rick On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 11:26 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Gee, I hope they alright! > > > On Thursday, June 9, 2016 3:23 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > There was a young married couple that didn?t know the difference between > Vaseline and putty. > All their windows fell out. > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Friday, 10 June 2016 8:36 a.m. > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation > > Does anyone know if Vaseline will harm rubber O rings? > Rick > > On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 9:00 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > > I never did pot my VHF antenna and it works great. I did however pot my > GPS and I just filled it with epoxy and it works great too. > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation > > Sent: Jun 07 '16 13:05 > > > > I would like to find out from anyone who has an external VHF antenna > > how they potted what looks like a filter at the base of the antenna. > > > > Rick > > > > On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 3:25 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > I just got introduced to a free cloud CAD program by one of the SMEs > > > who is volunteering on Shackleton. The UI is very similar to a > > > simplified Autocad, it seems to share a lot of the same commands. > > > I'm sure there are limitations, but this seems to have three major > > > things going for it; it's not too hard, it allows online > > > collaboration between multiple designers because its in the cloud, > > > and its FREE. > > > > > > https://www.onshape.com/ > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > Alec > > > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Michael Holt via > > > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > >> I have Delftship, a freebie but apparently comprehensive thing > > >> intended for surface ship design. (It was originally called > > >> Freeships, I think.) I have never been able to us it because the > > >> manual is damn near incomprehensible (it doesn't use some of the > > >> terminology I'm accustomed to seeing). If anyone can get it to > > >> do something useful, send me a personal message! > > >> > > >> Mike > > >> > > >> --- > > >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus > > >> software. > > >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 9 18:30:11 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 16:30:11 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: References: <6bty8uf3ww7i2fecqxrl7qcu.1464394672854@email.android.com> <1553742741.665367.1464396816588.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5748ff78.1314620a.8ffad.ffffa93e@mx.google.com> <38af2636-316a-31ac-168d-6f68377ec99a@ohiohills.com> <20160607190013.20054.qmail@server268.com> <5759de35.0436620a.ba2d.ffffbcfa@mx.google.com> <1916501197.382883.1465507567650.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <16adb2b3-e8c9-40fd-b890-3d18f5303b1e@email.android.com> Petroleum jelly like Vaseline begins to liquefy not far above body temperature. If there is any chance that the parts in question could heat up (e.g. on deck in the sun), you're better off with something more stable. Dow Corning High Vacuum Grease would work, and there are also rust inhibiting coating products that aren't greases made specifically for the purpose. I have to wonder though - why not avoid gunk and just paint the affected surfaces? Sean On June 9, 2016 3:59:30 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Sorry, I should of been a little clearer. I have some heavy steel rings >that I made and welded one to the battery pod and one to the end cap >that >has an O ring groove in it. Since they are not stainless, I need to >keep >something on the bare steel to keep the oxygen off them so they don't >rust. >I have been using silicone on them but my intention was to see if I >could >use something else less expensive but still use the proper silicone on >the >O rings and wanted to know if Vaseline would work. >So far, the Vaseline has been working on all my windows but I better re >check em just encase! > >Rick > >On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 11:26 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Gee, I hope they alright! >> >> >> On Thursday, June 9, 2016 3:23 PM, Hugh Fulton via >Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> There was a young married couple that didn?t know the difference >between >> Vaseline and putty. >> All their windows fell out. >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Rick Patton >via >> Personal_Submersibles >> *Sent:* Friday, 10 June 2016 8:36 a.m. >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >> >> Does anyone know if Vaseline will harm rubber O rings? >> Rick >> >> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 9:00 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> Rick, >> >> I never did pot my VHF antenna and it works great. I did however pot >my >> GPS and I just filled it with epoxy and it works great too. >> >> Thank you, >> Scott Waters >> >> > -------Original Message------- >> > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >> > Sent: Jun 07 '16 13:05 >> > >> > I would like to find out from anyone who has an external VHF >antenna >> > how they potted what looks like a filter at the base of the >antenna. >> > >> > Rick >> > >> > On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 3:25 AM, Alec Smyth via >Personal_Submersibles >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Hi everyone, >> > > >> > > I just got introduced to a free cloud CAD program by one of the >SMEs >> > > who is volunteering on Shackleton. The UI is very similar to a >> > > simplified Autocad, it seems to share a lot of the same >commands. >> > > I'm sure there are limitations, but this seems to have three >major >> > > things going for it; it's not too hard, it allows online >> > > collaboration between multiple designers because its in the >cloud, >> > > and its FREE. >> > > >> > > https://www.onshape.com/ >> > > >> > > Best, >> > > >> > > Alec >> > > >> > > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Michael Holt via >> > > Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > > >> > >> I have Delftship, a freebie but apparently comprehensive thing >> > >> intended for surface ship design. (It was originally called >> > >> Freeships, I think.) I have never been able to us it because >the >> > >> manual is damn near incomprehensible (it doesn't use some of >the >> > >> terminology I'm accustomed to seeing). If anyone can get it to >> > >> do something useful, send me a personal message! >> > >> >> > >> Mike >> > >> >> > >> --- >> > >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus >> > >> software. >> > >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> > >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 9 19:27:34 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 19:27:34 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <155377e096f-1fef-11696@webprd-m43.mail.aol.com> It's water soluble and will wash completely away. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, Jun 9, 2016 4:36 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Does anyone know if Vaseline will harm rubber O rings? Rick On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 9:00 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, I never did pot my VHF antenna and it works great. I did however pot my GPS and I just filled it with epoxy and it works great too. Thank you, Scott Waters > -------Original Message------- > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation > Sent: Jun 07 '16 13:05 > > I would like to find out from anyone who has an external VHF antenna > how they potted what looks like a filter at the base of the antenna. > > Rick > > On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 3:25 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > > > > I just got introduced to a free cloud CAD program by one of the SMEs > > who is volunteering on Shackleton. The UI is very similar to a > > simplified Autocad, it seems to share a lot of the same commands. > > I'm sure there are limitations, but this seems to have three major > > things going for it; it's not too hard, it allows online > > collaboration between multiple designers because its in the cloud, > > and its FREE. > > > > https://www.onshape.com/ > > > > Best, > > > > Alec > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Michael Holt via > > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > >> I have Delftship, a freebie but apparently comprehensive thing > >> intended for surface ship design. (It was originally called > >> Freeships, I think.) I have never been able to us it because the > >> manual is damn near incomprehensible (it doesn't use some of the > >> terminology I'm accustomed to seeing). If anyone can get it to > >> do something useful, send me a personal message! > >> > >> Mike > >> > >> --- > >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus > >> software. > >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 9 20:12:28 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 14:12:28 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: <16adb2b3-e8c9-40fd-b890-3d18f5303b1e@email.android.com> References: <6bty8uf3ww7i2fecqxrl7qcu.1464394672854@email.android.com> <1553742741.665367.1464396816588.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5748ff78.1314620a.8ffad.ffffa93e@mx.google.com> <38af2636-316a-31ac-168d-6f68377ec99a@ohiohills.com> <20160607190013.20054.qmail@server268.com> <5759de35.0436620a.ba2d.ffffbcfa@mx.google.com> <1916501197.382883.1465507567650.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <16adb2b3-e8c9-40fd-b890-3d18f5303b1e@email.android.com> Message-ID: Sean, They are the faces that face each other with the O ring in one of them so when the O rings compresses to a certain point, the metal faces mate. I'll see how the Dow Corning stuff compares with the O ring silicone I have been using. Thanks All Rick On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Petroleum jelly like Vaseline begins to liquefy not far above body > temperature. If there is any chance that the parts in question could heat > up (e.g. on deck in the sun), you're better off with something more stable. > Dow Corning High Vacuum Grease would work, and there are also rust > inhibiting coating products that aren't greases made specifically for the > purpose. I have to wonder though - why not avoid gunk and just paint the > affected surfaces? > > Sean > > > On June 9, 2016 3:59:30 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Sorry, I should of been a little clearer. I have some heavy steel rings >> that I made and welded one to the battery pod and one to the end cap that >> has an O ring groove in it. Since they are not stainless, I need to keep >> something on the bare steel to keep the oxygen off them so they don't rust. >> I have been using silicone on them but my intention was to see if I could >> use something else less expensive but still use the proper silicone on the >> O rings and wanted to know if Vaseline would work. >> So far, the Vaseline has been working on all my windows but I better re >> check em just encase! >> >> Rick >> >> On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 11:26 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Gee, I hope they alright! >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, June 9, 2016 3:23 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> There was a young married couple that didn?t know the difference between >>> Vaseline and putty. >>> All their windows fell out. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Rick Patton via >>> Personal_Submersibles >>> *Sent:* Friday, 10 June 2016 8:36 a.m. >>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >>> >>> Does anyone know if Vaseline will harm r! ubber O rings? >>> Rick >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 9:00 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> Rick, >>> >>> I never did pot my VHF antenna and it works great. I did however pot my >>> GPS and I just filled it with epoxy and it works great too. >>> >>> Thank you, >>> Scott Waters >>> >>> > -------Original Message------- >>> > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >>> > Sent: Jun 07 '16 13:05 >>> > >>> > I would like to find out from anyone who has an external VHF antenna >>> > how they potted what looks like a filter at the base of the antenna. >>> > >>> > Rick >>> > >>> > On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 3:25 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > > Hi everyone, >>> > > >>> > > I just got introduced to a free cloud CAD program by one of the SMEs >>> > > who is volunteering on Shacklet! on. The UI is very similar to a >>> >>> > > simplified Autocad, it seems to share a lot of the same commands. >>> > > I'm sure there are limitations, but this seems to have three major >>> > > things going for it; it's not too hard, it allows online >>> > > collaboration between multiple designers because its in the cloud, >>> > > and its FREE. >>> > > >>> > > https://www.onshape.com/ >>> > > >>> > > Best, >>> > > >>> > > Alec >>> > > >>> > > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Michael Holt via >>> > > Personal_Submersibles >> > wrote: >>> > > >>> > >> I have Delftship, a freebie but apparently comprehensive thing >>> > >> intended for surface ship design. (It was originally called >>> > >> Freeships, I think.) I have never been able to us it because the >>> > >> manual is damn near incomprehensible (it doesn't use some of the >>> > >> terminology I'm accustomed to seeing). If anyone can get it to >>> > >> do something useful, send me a personal message! >>> > >> >>> > >> Mike >>> > >> >>> > >> --- >>> > >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus >>> > >> software. >>> > >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >>> > >> >>> > >> _______________________________________________ >>> > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 9 22:34:16 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 19:34:16 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Message-ID: <20160609193416.3744ED22@m0087798.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 10 00:26:15 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 14:26:15 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cornelius compressors Message-ID: Hi all, I know Hank uses a Cornelius compressor and I think others have enquired after them. In a nutshell, it's a small/lightweight (~60lb?) high-pressure compressor no longer made, originally used by the US Air Force in aircraft - so it's pretty well spec'd. Also by default runs off nominal 27VDC - so highly suitable for install in a PSUB, if you can handle the current draw, noise and 2cfm flowrate. Well in the course of my business, I sold a SCUBA nitrox mixing stick to a guy in Canada who mounted it on a Cornelius compressor - see a picture of the final setup he sent me (if the recent discussions of email vs Facebook haven't put you off!): https://www.facebook.com/tfmengineeringaust/photos/a.754931991306953.1073741830.754476911352461/858648047602013/?type=3&theater Anyway, we got to talking and he said he got the compressor from a bloke in Florida. I made contact and discovered this bloke has a whole lot of them that he is slowly setting up and selling as fully functional breathing air compressors (they are old but apparently well preserved and have only a few hours - he runs them in). He also has parts as well for anyone like Hank who already has a unit. I'm contemplating bringing a few into Australia to on-sell. In case anyone is interested, his name is Paul Deverell, with email pauldeverell at ymail.com and phone number +1 786-367-3365 Cheers, Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 10 18:34:51 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 22:34:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cornelius compressors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1016787392.1196808.1465598091097.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Steve.How easy would it be to adapt a rebreather O2 feed system to a submarine?I believe APdiving in the UK did this for James Cameron's sub.I'm building a one person sub about the size of Cliff's R300 & because of the small size,wanted a system that responded quickly to O2 deviations.I envisage the system as having a constant flow of O2 at a rate just below my minimumconsumption, with a top up from readings off 3 O2 sensors.Cheers Alan From: Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 4:26 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cornelius compressors Hi all,I know Hank uses a Cornelius?compressor?and I think others have?enquired after them.??In a nutshell, it's a small/lightweight?(~60lb?) high-pressure compressor no longer made, originally used by the US Air Force in aircraft - so it's pretty well spec'd.? Also?by default runs off nominal 27VDC - so highly suitable for install in a?PSUB, if you can handle the current draw, noise and 2cfm flowrate. Well in the course of my business, I sold a SCUBA?nitrox mixing stick to a?guy in Canada?who mounted it?on a Cornelius compressor - see a picture of the final setup he sent me (if the recent discussions of email vs Facebook haven't put you off!):https://www.facebook.com/tfmengineeringaust/photos/a.754931991306953.1073741830.754476911352461/858648047602013/?type=3&theater Anyway,?we got to talking?and?he?said he got the compressor from a bloke in Florida.??I made contact and?discovered?this bloke?has a?whole lot of them that?he is?slowly setting up and selling as fully functional breathing air compressors (they are old but?apparently well preserved and have only a few hours - he runs them in).? He also has?parts as well for anyone like Hank who already has a unit.? I'm contemplating bringing a few into Australia?to on-sell. In case anyone is interested, his?name is Paul Deverell, with email pauldeverell at ymail.com and phone number +1 786-367-3365 Cheers,Steve _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 10 20:28:50 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 00:28:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cornelius compressors References: <1780025546.988591.1465604930984.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1780025546.988591.1465604930984.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Isn't that what people are basically doing already? Whether you are using a flow meter, needle valve, mpu controlled solenoid valve or bellows add system ala Dr Phil, you are basically adding O2 at your metabolic rate the same as a rebreather would do... Al Secor -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 6/10/16, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cornelius compressors To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Friday, June 10, 2016, 6:34 PM Thanks Steve.How easy would it be to adapt a rebreather O2 feed system to a submarine?I believe APdiving in the UK did this for James Cameron's sub.I'm building a one person sub about the size of Cliff's R300 & because of the small size,wanted a system that responded quickly to O2 deviations.I envisage the system as having a constant flow of O2 at a rate just below my minimumconsumption, with a top up from readings off 3 O2 sensors.Cheers Alan From: Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 4:26 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cornelius compressors Hi all,I know Hank uses a Cornelius?compressor?and I think others have?enquired after them.??In a nutshell, it's a small/lightweight?(~60lb?) high-pressure compressor no longer made, originally used by the US Air Force in aircraft - so it's pretty well spec'd.? Also?by default runs off nominal 27VDC - so highly suitable for install in a?PSUB, if you can handle the current draw, noise and 2cfm flowrate. Well in the course of my business, I sold a SCUBA?nitrox mixing stick to a?guy in Canada?who mounted it?on a Cornelius compressor - see a picture of the final setup he sent me (if the recent discussions of email vs Facebook haven't put you off!):https://www.facebook.com/tfmengineeringaust/photos/a.754931991306953.1073741830.754476911352461/858648047602013/?type=3&theater Anyway,?we got to talking?and?he?said he got the compressor from a bloke in Florida.??I made contact and?discovered?this bloke?has a?whole lot of them that?he is?slowly setting up and selling as fully functional breathing air compressors (they are old but?apparently well preserved and have only a few hours - he runs them in).? He also has?parts as well for anyone like Hank who already has a unit.? I'm contemplating bringing a few into Australia?to on-sell. In case anyone is interested, his?name is Paul Deverell, with email pauldeverell at ymail.com and phone number +1 786-367-3365 Cheers,Steve _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 10 21:01:24 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 01:01:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cornelius compressors In-Reply-To: <1780025546.988591.1465604930984.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1780025546.988591.1465604930984.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1780025546.988591.1465604930984.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <544773275.1226987.1465606884843.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Yes.Cliff has a system that reads off?one?O2 sensor?& seems to work fine, but Iwant?the redundancy I will get with?three O2 sensors as per a rebreather. It is a bitmore complicated as if one O2 sensor is reading out of sync with the other twoit will take the measurements from those two as Gospel. So I want to?use a rebreather module that already has the algorithm for that.?The bellows add system relies on cabin pressure which can fluctuate for reasons other than a variation in the O2 levels. And because my sub is so small anyatmospheric conditions are going to fluctuate more quickly than a larger sub,hence?the need for?a reliable system that responds to changes quickly.There is a bit of a blurb on the system AP developed for James Cameron here.James Cameron's Deepsea Challenge. Marianna Trench Trip Report Mar 2012 | | | James Cameron's Deepsea Challenge. Marianna Trench Trip Report Mar 2012 | | | Cheers Alan From: Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 12:28 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cornelius compressors Isn't that what people are basically doing already?? Whether you are using a flow meter, needle valve, mpu controlled solenoid valve or bellows add system ala Dr Phil, you are basically adding O2 at your metabolic rate the same as a rebreather would do... Al Secor -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 6/10/16, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cornelius compressors To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Friday, June 10, 2016, 6:34 PM Thanks Steve.How easy would it be to adapt a rebreather O2 feed system to a submarine?I believe APdiving in the UK did this for James Cameron's sub.I'm building a one person sub about the size of Cliff's R300 & because of the small size,wanted a system that responded quickly to O2 deviations.I envisage the system as having a constant flow of O2 at a rate just below my minimumconsumption, with a top up from readings off 3 O2 sensors.Cheers Alan ? ? ? From: Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 4:26 PM ? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cornelius compressors ? ? Hi all,I know Hank uses a Cornelius?compressor?and I think others have?enquired after them.??In a nutshell, it's a small/lightweight?(~60lb?) high-pressure compressor no longer made, originally used by the US Air Force in aircraft - so it's pretty well spec'd.? Also?by default runs off nominal 27VDC - so highly suitable for install in a?PSUB, if you can handle the current draw, noise and 2cfm flowrate. Well in the course of my business, I sold a SCUBA?nitrox mixing stick to a?guy in Canada?who mounted it?on a Cornelius compressor - see a picture of the final setup he sent me (if the recent discussions of email vs Facebook haven't put you off!):https://www.facebook.com/tfmengineeringaust/photos/a.754931991306953.1073741830.754476911352461/858648047602013/?type=3&theater Anyway,?we got to talking?and?he?said he got the compressor from a bloke in Florida.??I made contact and?discovered?this bloke?has a?whole lot of them that?he is?slowly setting up and selling as fully functional breathing air compressors (they are old but?apparently well preserved and have only a few hours - he runs them in).? He also has?parts as well for anyone like Hank who already has a unit.? I'm contemplating bringing a few into Australia?to on-sell. In case anyone is interested, his?name is Paul Deverell, with email pauldeverell at ymail.com and phone number +1 786-367-3365 Cheers,Steve _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 11 02:09:29 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 08:09:29 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cornelius compressors In-Reply-To: <544773275.1226987.1465606884843.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1780025546.988591.1465604930984.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1780025546.988591.1465604930984.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <544773275.1226987.1465606884843.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: hi Alan You re right in a small cabin if Something is wrong in the oxy you have less time to react before o2 level drops too low or goes too high, so rb automatic systems can help and keep you alive if you fall unconscious. But: -one of the main failures rb systems are designed to address is much less present in subs: o2 cells age fast at high oxygen partial pressures and fail to record high oxygen partial pressures which can trick into injection of too much oxy -oxy variations in rb are much larger than in a small 1atm sub -statistics of rb accidents tend to say that the automatic systems with solenoids are not safer than manual add systems. They might induce more complacency and have divers forgeting to check things. manual add on (like reabreather ?adv' system which can be also used to make a bellow add type ) systems coupled with constant flow (pediatric regulator) to cover minimal rate make you alert while giving you more time to react and perhaps decrease the chance you forget to turn o2 on which has been a cause of several rb deaths. -it would be easy to use rb equipment in a sub, although some factory settings for O2 level alarms may have to be changed. But it is difficult to find spare parts if you do not own a unit and certification, other than on second hand market like cave diving forums. parts on rb accessory shops like tecme.de or golem are an option but can be expensive. The good thing with rb stuff though is their o2 cells have hydrophobic membranes for keeping condensed water away and give PpO2 on a large range or absolute pressure and O2. stand alone monitors like revo dream coming with HUD display could be good. Doing some rb diving course with the system you want to use can be very helpful... I did it with APdiving rb. Regards antoine On Saturday, June 11, 2016, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > Yes. > Cliff has a system that reads off one O2 sensor & seems to work fine, but I > want the redundancy I will get with three O2 sensors as per a rebreather. > It is a bit > more complicated as if one O2 sensor is reading out of sync with the other > two > it will take the measurements from those two as Gospel. So I want to use a > rebreather module that already has the algorithm for that. > The bellows add system relies on cabin pressure which can fluctuate for > reasons other than a variation in the O2 levels. And because my sub is so > small any > atmospheric conditions are going to fluctuate more quickly than a larger > sub, > hence the need for a reliable system that responds to changes quickly. > There is a bit of a blurb on the system AP developed for James Cameron > here. > James Cameron's Deepsea Challenge. Marianna Trench Trip Report Mar 2012 > > > James Cameron's Deepsea Challenge. Marianna Trench Trip Report Mar 2012 > > > Cheers Alan > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Saturday, June 11, 2016 12:28 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cornelius compressors > > Isn't that what people are basically doing already? Whether you are using > a flow meter, needle valve, mpu controlled solenoid valve or bellows add > system ala Dr Phil, you are basically adding O2 at your metabolic rate the > same as a rebreather would do... > > Al Secor > > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 6/10/16, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cornelius compressors > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Date: Friday, June 10, 2016, 6:34 PM > > Thanks > Steve.How > easy would it be to adapt a rebreather O2 feed system to a > submarine?I > believe APdiving in the UK did this for James Cameron's > sub.I'm > building a one person sub about the size of Cliff's R300 > & because of the small size,wanted > a system that responded quickly to O2 deviations.I > envisage the system as having a constant flow of O2 at a > rate just below my minimumconsumption, > with a top up from readings off 3 O2 sensors.Cheers > Alan > > > From: Stephen Fordyce > via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Friday, > June 10, 2016 4:26 PM > Subject: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cornelius compressors > > > Hi > all,I > know Hank uses a Cornelius compressor and I think others > have enquired after them. In a nutshell, it's a > small/lightweight (~60lb?) high-pressure compressor no > longer made, originally used by the US Air Force in aircraft > - so it's pretty well spec'd. Also by default > runs off nominal 27VDC - so highly suitable for install in > a PSUB, if you can handle the current draw, noise and 2cfm > flowrate. > Well > in the course of my business, I sold a SCUBA nitrox mixing > stick to a guy in Canada who mounted it on a Cornelius > compressor - see a picture of the final setup he sent me (if > the recent discussions of email vs Facebook haven't put > you off!): > https://www.facebook.com/tfmengineeringaust/photos/a.754931991306953.1073741830.754476911352461/858648047602013/?type=3&theater > Anyway, we > got to talking and he said he got the compressor from a > bloke in Florida. I made contact and discovered this > bloke has a whole lot of them that he is slowly setting > up and selling as fully functional breathing air compressors > (they are old but apparently well preserved and have only a > few hours - he runs them in). He also has parts as well > for anyone like Hank who already has a unit. I'm > contemplating bringing a few into Australia to > on-sell. > In case > anyone is interested, his name is Paul Deverell, with email > pauldeverell at ymail.com > and phone number +1 786-367-3365 > Cheers,Steve > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 11 07:19:10 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 11:19:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cornelius compressors In-Reply-To: References: <1780025546.988591.1465604930984.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1780025546.988591.1465604930984.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <544773275.1226987.1465606884843.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1124499003.1304723.1465643950521.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Antoine,some good information there. I am intending to have a constant flow?system that is toppedup via a re-breather style metering device. If the factory settings of the re-breather computercan't be changed then plan 2 is to use a PLC to do the work.?This may be the better optionas I could then?have O2 level displays & alarms?on one main HMI.As for the problem of remembering to turn the O2 on; I think I will have a switch?under?the pilotschair, activated by?the weight of the pilot.?This will activate?an alarm or warning if the O2 valve isn't open.Alan? From: Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 6:09 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cornelius compressors hi AlanYou re right in a?small cabin if Something is wrong in the?oxy you have less time to react before o2 level drops too low or goes too high, so rb automatic?systems can help?and keep?you alive if you fall unconscious.?But:-one of the main failures?rb systems are designed to address is much less?present in subs:??o2 cells age fast at high oxygen partial pressures and?fail to record high oxygen partial pressures which can trick into injection of too much oxy-oxy variations in rb are much larger than in a small 1atm sub-statistics of rb accidents tend to say that the automatic systems with solenoids are not safer than manual add systems.?They might induce more complacency and have divers forgeting?to check things.?manual add on (like reabreather??adv' system which can be also used to make?a bellow add type?)?systems coupled with constant flow (pediatric regulator)?to cover minimal rate?make you alert while giving you more time to react?and perhaps decrease the chance you forget to turn o2 on which has been a cause of several rb deaths.??-it would be easy to use rb equipment in a sub, although some factory settings for O2 level alarms may have to be changed. But?it is difficult to find spare parts if you do not own a unit and certification,?other than on second hand market like cave diving forums. parts on rb accessory?shops like tecme.de or golem are an option but can?be expensive.The good thing with rb stuff though is their o2 cells have hydrophobic membranes for keeping condensed water away and give PpO2 on a large range or absolute pressure and O2.stand alone monitors like revo dream coming with HUD display could be good.Doing some rb diving course with the system you want to use?can be very?helpful... I did it with APdiving rb.? Regardsantoine On Saturday, June 11, 2016, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes.Cliff has a system that reads off?one?O2 sensor?& seems to work fine, but Iwant?the redundancy I will get with?three O2 sensors as per a rebreather. It is a bitmore complicated as if one O2 sensor is reading out of sync with the other twoit will take the measurements from those two as Gospel. So I want to?use a rebreather module that already has the algorithm for that.?The bellows add system relies on cabin pressure which can fluctuate for reasons other than a variation in the O2 levels. And because my sub is so small anyatmospheric conditions are going to fluctuate more quickly than a larger sub,hence?the need for?a reliable system that responds to changes quickly.There is a bit of a blurb on the system AP developed for James Cameron here.James Cameron's Deepsea Challenge. Marianna Trench Trip Report Mar 2012 | | | James Cameron's Deepsea Challenge. Marianna Trench Trip Report Mar 2012 | | | Cheers Alan From: Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 12:28 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cornelius compressors Isn't that what people are basically doing already?? Whether you are using a flow meter, needle valve, mpu controlled solenoid valve or bellows add system ala Dr Phil, you are basically adding O2 at your metabolic rate the same as a rebreather would do... Al Secor -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 6/10/16, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cornelius compressors To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Friday, June 10, 2016, 6:34 PM Thanks Steve.How easy would it be to adapt a rebreather O2 feed system to a submarine?I believe APdiving in the UK did this for James Cameron's sub.I'm building a one person sub about the size of Cliff's R300 & because of the small size,wanted a system that responded quickly to O2 deviations.I envisage the system as having a constant flow of O2 at a rate just below my minimumconsumption, with a top up from readings off 3 O2 sensors.Cheers Alan ? ? ? From: Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 4:26 PM ? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cornelius compressors ? ? Hi all,I know Hank uses a Cornelius?compressor?and I think others have?enquired after them.??In a nutshell, it's a small/lightweight?(~60lb?) high-pressure compressor no longer made, originally used by the US Air Force in aircraft - so it's pretty well spec'd.? Also?by default runs off nominal 27VDC - so highly suitable for install in a?PSUB, if you can handle the current draw, noise and 2cfm flowrate. Well in the course of my business, I sold a SCUBA?nitrox mixing stick to a?guy in Canada?who mounted it?on a Cornelius compressor - see a picture of the final setup he sent me (if the recent discussions of email vs Facebook haven't put you off!):https://www.facebook.com/tfmengineeringaust/photos/a.754931991306953.1073741830.754476911352461/858648047602013/?type=3&theater Anyway,?we got to talking?and?he?said he got the compressor from a bloke in Florida.??I made contact and?discovered?this bloke?has a?whole lot of them that?he is?slowly setting up and selling as fully functional breathing air compressors (they are old but?apparently well preserved and have only a few hours - he runs them in).? He also has?parts as well for anyone like Hank who already has a unit.? I'm contemplating bringing a few into Australia?to on-sell. In case anyone is interested, his?name is Paul Deverell, with email pauldeverell at ymail.com and phone number +1 786-367-3365 Cheers,Steve _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 11 18:17:21 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 22:17:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub weights References: <1254773506.1152891.1465683441501.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1254773506.1152891.1465683441501.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Today I rigged up a 130 lb weight on the front of Gamma that is easily removed so when I take a passenger I don't crash into the bottom. ?I can weight the sub to be more user friendly. ?My kids can operate Gamma much easier now. ?I will be diving Tuesday if nobody interrupts me with broken cars etc. ;-)Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 11 23:06:51 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 11:06:51 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cornelius compressors In-Reply-To: <1124499003.1304723.1465643950521.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1780025546.988591.1465604930984.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1780025546.988591.1465604930984.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <544773275.1226987.1465606884843.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1124499003.1304723.1465643950521.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I've been looking through his patents, and Richard T. Cornelius seems to have been something of a genius. Many patents, and in many separate fields. Marc On 6/11/2016 7:19 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks Antoine, > some good information there. I am intending to have a constant > flow system that is topped > up via a re-breather style metering device. If the factory settings of > the re-breather computer > can't be changed then plan 2 is to use a PLC to do the work. This may be > the better option > as I could then have O2 level displays & alarms on one main HMI. > As for the problem of remembering to turn the O2 on; I think I will have > a switch under the pilots > chair, activated by the weight of the pilot. This will activate an alarm > or warning if the O2 valve isn't open. > Alan > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > *Sent:* Saturday, June 11, 2016 6:09 PM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cornelius compressors > > hi Alan > You re right in a small cabin if Something is wrong in the oxy you have > less time to react before o2 level drops too low or goes too high, so rb > automatic systems can help and keep you alive if you fall unconscious. > But: > -one of the main failures rb systems are designed to address is much > less present in subs: o2 cells age fast at high oxygen partial > pressures and fail to record high oxygen partial pressures which can > trick into injection of too much oxy > -oxy variations in rb are much larger than in a small 1atm sub > -statistics of rb accidents tend to say that the automatic systems with > solenoids are not safer than manual add systems. They might induce more > complacency and have divers forgeting to check things. manual add on > (like reabreather ?adv' system which can be also used to make a bellow > add type ) systems coupled with constant flow (pediatric regulator) to > cover minimal rate make you alert while giving you more time to > react and perhaps decrease the chance you forget to turn o2 on which has > been a cause of several rb deaths. > -it would be easy to use rb equipment in a sub, although some factory > settings for O2 level alarms may have to be changed. But it is difficult > to find spare parts if you do not own a unit and certification, other > than on second hand market like cave diving forums. parts on rb > accessory shops like tecme.de or golem are an option > but can be expensive. > The good thing with rb stuff though is their o2 cells have hydrophobic > membranes for keeping condensed water away and give PpO2 on a large > range or absolute pressure and O2. > stand alone monitors like revo dream coming with HUD display could be good. > Doing some rb diving course with the system you want to use can be > very helpful... I did it with APdiving rb. > > Regards > antoine > > On Saturday, June 11, 2016, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Yes. > Cliff has a system that reads off one O2 sensor & seems to work > fine, but I > want the redundancy I will get with three O2 sensors as per a > rebreather. It is a bit > more complicated as if one O2 sensor is reading out of sync with the > other two > it will take the measurements from those two as Gospel. So I want > to use a > rebreather module that already has the algorithm for that. > The bellows add system relies on cabin pressure which can fluctuate for > reasons other than a variation in the O2 levels. And because my sub > is so small any > atmospheric conditions are going to fluctuate more quickly than a > larger sub, > hence the need for a reliable system that responds to changes quickly. > There is a bit of a blurb on the system AP developed for James > Cameron here. > James Cameron's Deepsea Challenge. Marianna Trench Trip Report Mar > 2012 > > > > > > James Cameron's Deepsea Challenge. Marianna Trench Trip Report > Mar 2012 > > > > > Cheers Alan > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > *Sent:* Saturday, June 11, 2016 12:28 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cornelius compressors > > Isn't that what people are basically doing already? Whether you are > using a flow meter, needle valve, mpu controlled solenoid valve or > bellows add system ala Dr Phil, you are basically adding O2 at your > metabolic rate the same as a rebreather would do... > > Al Secor > > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 6/10/16, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cornelius compressors > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > Date: Friday, June 10, 2016, 6:34 PM > > Thanks > Steve.How > easy would it be to adapt a rebreather O2 feed system to a > submarine?I > believe APdiving in the UK did this for James Cameron's > sub.I'm > building a one person sub about the size of Cliff's R300 > & because of the small size,wanted > a system that responded quickly to O2 deviations.I > envisage the system as having a constant flow of O2 at a > rate just below my minimumconsumption, > with a top up from readings off 3 O2 sensors.Cheers > Alan > > > From: Stephen Fordyce > via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Friday, > June 10, 2016 4:26 PM > Subject: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cornelius compressors > > > Hi > all,I > know Hank uses a Cornelius compressor and I think others > have enquired after them. In a nutshell, it's a > small/lightweight (~60lb?) high-pressure compressor no > longer made, originally used by the US Air Force in aircraft > - so it's pretty well spec'd. Also by default > runs off nominal 27VDC - so highly suitable for install in > a PSUB, if you can handle the current draw, noise and 2cfm > flowrate. > Well > in the course of my business, I sold a SCUBA nitrox mixing > stick to a guy in Canada who mounted it on a Cornelius > compressor - see a picture of the final setup he sent me (if > the recent discussions of email vs Facebook haven't put > you > off!):https://www.facebook.com/tfmengineeringaust/photos/a.754931991306953.1073741830.754476911352461/858648047602013/?type=3&theater > Anyway, we > got to talking and he said he got the compressor from a > bloke in Florida. I made contact and discovered this > bloke has a whole lot of them that he is slowly setting > up and selling as fully functional breathing air compressors > (they are old but apparently well preserved and have only a > few hours - he runs them in). He also has parts as well > for anyone like Hank who already has a unit. I'm > contemplating bringing a few into Australia to > on-sell. > In case > anyone is interested, his name is Paul Deverell, with email > pauldeverell at ymail.com > and phone number +1 786-367-3365 > Cheers,Steve > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 12 12:22:35 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 16:22:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] low pressure air pump References: <59945198.1402383.1465748555267.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <59945198.1402383.1465748555267.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Has anyone installed a low pressure air pump to fill MBT's when you get to the surface. ?This would conserve HP air and in my case precious amps in the battery bank. ?A small pump used for air bags on cars and trucks would work perfect.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 12 13:12:28 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 19:12:28 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] low pressure air pump In-Reply-To: <59945198.1402383.1465748555267.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <59945198.1402383.1465748555267.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <59945198.1402383.1465748555267.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Thought about it too I have huge mbt which can be inflated with external scuba tanks on surface or underwater by a diver with a scuba direct system adaptor. But i also Tried topping it up with shraeder valve tire inflator and it fits roughly ok on the direct system. So i ll add an electric tire air compressor in my surface kit. It could also work from inside the sub to inflate the last 2 thirds of the mbt after surfacing once i can tap external air to feed the compressor Regards antoine On Sunday, June 12, 2016, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Has anyone installed a low pressure air pump to fill MBT's when you get to > the surface. This would conserve HP air and in my case precious amps in > the battery bank. A small pump used for air bags on cars and trucks would > work perfect. > Hank > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 12 13:28:42 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 12:28:42 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] low pressure air pump In-Reply-To: <59945198.1402383.1465748555267.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <59945198.1402383.1465748555267.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <59945198.1402383.1465748555267.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I think most airbags are inflated with chemical reaction not a compressor or pump. What might work is a shop vac. Portable shop vacuums have a radial impellor that looks like a pump radial compressor. These units typically have a lot of flowrate at 150-160 cfm and generate 1.5 to 2 psi of head. This should be able to inflate a MBT quickly if the suction side is connected to surface air. Most of these are like 1.5 to 2 hp and run off AC. I am sure you could find one with a DC motor. cliff BTW, are you coming to the psub convention? On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 11:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Has anyone installed a low pressure air pump to fill MBT's when you get to > the surface. This would conserve HP air and in my case precious amps in > the battery bank. A small pump used for air bags on cars and trucks would > work perfect. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 12 13:27:20 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 17:27:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] low pressure air pump In-Reply-To: References: <59945198.1402383.1465748555267.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <59945198.1402383.1465748555267.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <120546614.1344929.1465752440185.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Antoine,Good to hear, it seems so logical, a tire pump is an even less expensive option.Hank On Sunday, June 12, 2016 11:12 AM, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles wrote: HiThought about it too I have huge mbt which can be inflated with external scuba tanks on surface or underwater by a diver?with a scuba?direct system adaptor. But i also Tried topping it up?with shraeder valve tire inflator and it fits roughly ok?on the direct system. So i ll add an electric tire air compressor in my?surface kit.?It could?also work from inside the sub to inflate the last 2 thirds of the mbt after surfacing once i can tap external air to feed the compressor Regards antoine On Sunday, June 12, 2016, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Has anyone installed a low pressure air pump to fill MBT's when you get to the surface.? This would conserve HP air and in my case precious amps in the battery bank.? A small pump used for air bags on cars and trucks would work perfect.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 12 13:33:16 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 17:33:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] low pressure air pump In-Reply-To: <120546614.1344929.1465752440185.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <59945198.1402383.1465748555267.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <59945198.1402383.1465748555267.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <120546614.1344929.1465752440185.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <804710690.1381090.1465752796098.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,By air bags I mean suspension air bags, they are added to a truck suspension ?to increase load capacity, I have them in my semi tractor also. ?Low rider cars also can have them and that is where the pumps come from.Hank On Sunday, June 12, 2016 11:30 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Antoine,Good to hear, it seems so logical, a tire pump is an even less expensive option.Hank On Sunday, June 12, 2016 11:12 AM, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles wrote: HiThought about it too I have huge mbt which can be inflated with external scuba tanks on surface or underwater by a diver?with a scuba?direct system adaptor. But i also Tried topping it up?with shraeder valve tire inflator and it fits roughly ok?on the direct system. So i ll add an electric tire air compressor in my?surface kit.?It could?also work from inside the sub to inflate the last 2 thirds of the mbt after surfacing once i can tap external air to feed the compressor Regards antoine On Sunday, June 12, 2016, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Has anyone installed a low pressure air pump to fill MBT's when you get to the surface.? This would conserve HP air and in my case precious amps in the battery bank.? A small pump used for air bags on cars and trucks would work perfect.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 12 13:40:34 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 17:40:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] low pressure air pump In-Reply-To: <804710690.1381090.1465752796098.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <59945198.1402383.1465748555267.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <59945198.1402383.1465748555267.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <120546614.1344929.1465752440185.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <804710690.1381090.1465752796098.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1436483819.1442265.1465753234084.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Cliff,Unfortunately I am not planning to come to the convention.Hank On Sunday, June 12, 2016 11:33 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,By air bags I mean suspension air bags, they are added to a truck suspension ?to increase load capacity, I have them in my semi tractor also. ?Low rider cars also can have them and that is where the pumps come from.Hank On Sunday, June 12, 2016 11:30 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Antoine,Good to hear, it seems so logical, a tire pump is an even less expensive option.Hank On Sunday, June 12, 2016 11:12 AM, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles wrote: HiThought about it too I have huge mbt which can be inflated with external scuba tanks on surface or underwater by a diver?with a scuba?direct system adaptor. But i also Tried topping it up?with shraeder valve tire inflator and it fits roughly ok?on the direct system. So i ll add an electric tire air compressor in my?surface kit.?It could?also work from inside the sub to inflate the last 2 thirds of the mbt after surfacing once i can tap external air to feed the compressor Regards antoine On Sunday, June 12, 2016, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Has anyone installed a low pressure air pump to fill MBT's when you get to the surface.? This would conserve HP air and in my case precious amps in the battery bank.? A small pump used for air bags on cars and trucks would work perfect.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 12 14:31:33 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 13:31:33 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] low pressure air pump In-Reply-To: <804710690.1381090.1465752796098.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <59945198.1402383.1465748555267.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <59945198.1402383.1465748555267.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <120546614.1344929.1465752440185.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <804710690.1381090.1465752796098.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: You have a link to one of these? Must be a compressor not pump. Cliff On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 12:33 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > By air bags I mean suspension air bags, they are added to a truck > suspension to increase load capacity, I have them in my semi tractor > also. Low rider cars also can have them and that is where the pumps come > from. > Hank > > > On Sunday, June 12, 2016 11:30 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hi Antoine, > Good to hear, it seems so logical, a tire pump is an even less expensive > option. > Hank > > > On Sunday, June 12, 2016 11:12 AM, Antoine Delafargue via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi > Thought about it too > I have huge mbt which can be inflated with external scuba tanks on surface > or underwater by a diver with a scuba direct system adaptor. But i also > Tried topping it up with shraeder valve tire inflator and it fits roughly > ok on the direct system. So i ll add an electric tire air compressor in > my surface kit. It could also work from inside the sub to inflate the last > 2 thirds of the mbt after surfacing once i can tap external air to feed the > compressor > > Regards antoine > > On Sunday, June 12, 2016, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Has anyone installed a low pressure air pump to fill MBT's when you get to > the surface. This would conserve HP air and in my case precious amps in > the battery bank. A small pump used for air bags on cars and trucks would > work perfect. > Hank > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 12 14:43:57 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 11:43:57 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] low pressure air pump Message-ID: <20160612114357.3D2C4CF0@m0087796.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 12 14:50:48 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 18:50:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1802143254.1468896.1465757448684.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> your right Cliff, my mistake it is a compressor.Hank On Sunday, June 12, 2016 12:49 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: VoltAirMaxxx 480C Pewter 200psi Air Compressor Air Bag Suspension Horn System http://www.ebay.com/itm/VoltAirMaxxx-480C-Pewter-200psi-Air-Compressor-Air-Bag-Suspension-Horn-System-/371192779795?hash=item566cd05413:g:qsYAAOSwg3FUa38g&vxp=mtr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2016-06-12 at 12.48 PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 24946 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 12 14:59:16 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 18:59:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] low pressure air pump In-Reply-To: <20160612114357.3D2C4CF0@m0087796.ppops.net> References: <20160612114357.3D2C4CF0@m0087796.ppops.net> Message-ID: <686268440.1395926.1465757956295.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,I have been?thinking kinda the same but for a?generator. ?I have been thinking about making a bigger buoy that I tow with Gamma. ?Right now I tow a diver below buoy with a flag, so was thinking why not tow a full size inner tube pained all nice with a gen set inside it. ?Then I could power my thrusters from the generator and increase my range drastically . ?That would be much less trouble than a full on diesel mod.Hank On Sunday, June 12, 2016 12:43 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I just overhauled my Honda compressor for that very purpose,? going to make a floating platform for it.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] low pressure air pump Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 16:22:35 +0000 (UTC) Has anyone installed a low pressure air pump to fill MBT's when you get to the surface. ?This would conserve HP air and in my case precious amps in the battery bank. ?A small pump used for air bags on cars and trucks would work perfect.Hank_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 12 15:32:32 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 12:32:32 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <1802143254.1468896.1465757448684.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1802143254.1468896.1465757448684.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003801d1c4e1$2b048fe0$810dafa0$@telus.net> Could this compressor be used for breathing air, or would the compressed air be contaminated with oil? I am trying to source a low pressure high volume air source (8L/min/pax for the habitat at 21fsw. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 11:51 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: your right Cliff, my mistake it is a compressor. Hank On Sunday, June 12, 2016 12:49 PM, xxx xxxxx > wrote: VoltAirMaxxx 480C Pewter 200psi Air Compressor Air Bag Suspension Horn System http://www.ebay.com/itm/VoltAirMaxxx-480C-Pewter-200psi-Air-Compressor-Air-Bag-Suspension-Horn-System-/371192779795?hash=item566cd05413:g:qsYAAOSwg3FUa38g &vxp=mtr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 24946 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 12 15:37:35 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 21:37:35 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Just 578 pictures of Marlin S101 In-Reply-To: References: <59945198.1402383.1465748555267.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <59945198.1402383.1465748555267.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <120546614.1344929.1465752440185.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <804710690.1381090.1465752796098.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1465760255353.2813250.e29fb8537a67613198c9c31b208731ad391f405e@spica.telekom.de> https://moreboats.com/boats/marlin/32-diesel-electric-s101-manned-submarine/7459 vbr Carsten ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 12 15:44:49 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 12:44:49 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] low pressure air pump Message-ID: <52pytt1rbl0yiefsoxan2vyn.1465760689101@email.android.com> Hank, U.S. Balo & GATO class subs from WW2 used such a system. A small squril cage blower would do the trick. Something like what's used to inflate camping air mattress could be used. Keith T.To Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/12/16 9:22 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] low pressure air pump Has anyone installed a low pressure air pump to fill MBT's when you get to the surface. ?This would conserve HP air and in my case precious amps in the battery bank. ?A small pump used for air bags on cars and trucks would work perfect.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 12 15:43:54 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 19:43:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Just 578 pictures of Marlin S101 In-Reply-To: <1465760255353.2813250.e29fb8537a67613198c9c31b208731ad391f405e@spica.telekom.de> References: <59945198.1402383.1465748555267.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <59945198.1402383.1465748555267.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <120546614.1344929.1465752440185.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <804710690.1381090.1465752796098.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1465760255353.2813250.e29fb8537a67613198c9c31b208731ad391f405e@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <942120233.1451727.1465760634171.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks' Carsten,I like that sub, but it has so much clutter, way more complicated than it needs to be.Hank On Sunday, June 12, 2016 1:37 PM, "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: ??https://moreboats.com/boats/marlin/32-diesel-electric-s101-manned-submarine/7459?vbr Carsten?? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 12 15:49:43 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 19:49:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] low pressure air pump In-Reply-To: <52pytt1rbl0yiefsoxan2vyn.1465760689101@email.android.com> References: <52pytt1rbl0yiefsoxan2vyn.1465760689101@email.android.com> Message-ID: <441603490.1372645.1465760983962.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Kieth,That is true, an inflator would do just fine and would be faster also and super cheap, I think I even have one.Hank On Sunday, June 12, 2016 1:45 PM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, U.S. Balo & GATO class subs from WW2 used such a system. A small squril cage blower would do the trick. Something like what's used to inflate camping air mattress could be used. Keith T.To Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/12/16 9:22 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] low pressure air pump Has anyone installed a low pressure air pump to fill MBT's when you get to the surface. ?This would conserve HP air and in my case precious amps in the battery bank. ?A small pump used for air bags on cars and trucks would work perfect.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 12 15:57:57 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 21:57:57 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Just 578 pictures of Marlin S101 In-Reply-To: <1465760255353.2813250.e29fb8537a67613198c9c31b208731ad391f405e@spica.telekom.de> References: <59945198.1402383.1465748555267.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <59945198.1402383.1465748555267.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <120546614.1344929.1465752440185.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <804710690.1381090.1465752796098.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1465760255353.2813250.e29fb8537a67613198c9c31b208731ad391f405e@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <085a01d1c4e4$b73a8bb0$25afa310$@nl> Seen pict 04 Carsten? Alterative exhaust valve Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 12 juni 2016 21:38 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Just 578 pictures of Marlin S101 https://moreboats.com/boats/marlin/32-diesel-electric-s101-manned-submarine/7459 vbr Carsten ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 12 16:26:12 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 20:26:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Just 578 pictures of Marlin S101 In-Reply-To: <085a01d1c4e4$b73a8bb0$25afa310$@nl> References: <59945198.1402383.1465748555267.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <59945198.1402383.1465748555267.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <120546614.1344929.1465752440185.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <804710690.1381090.1465752796098.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1465760255353.2813250.e29fb8537a67613198c9c31b208731ad391f405e@spica.telekom.de> <085a01d1c4e4$b73a8bb0$25afa310$@nl> Message-ID: <1501575053.1744879.1465763172202.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Wow,a lot of pictures but can't see a depth rating.Noticed that there was a Triton submarine in the background along withTriton signage on a container.Alan From: emile via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 7:57 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Just 578 pictures of Marlin S101 #yiv8317025800 #yiv8317025800 -- _filtered #yiv8317025800 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv8317025800 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv8317025800 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv8317025800 #yiv8317025800 p.yiv8317025800MsoNormal, #yiv8317025800 li.yiv8317025800MsoNormal, #yiv8317025800 div.yiv8317025800MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv8317025800 a:link, #yiv8317025800 span.yiv8317025800MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv8317025800 a:visited, #yiv8317025800 span.yiv8317025800MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv8317025800 p {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv8317025800 span.yiv8317025800E-mailStijl18 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv8317025800 .yiv8317025800MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv8317025800 {margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}#yiv8317025800 div.yiv8317025800WordSection1 {}#yiv8317025800 Seen pict 04 Carsten? Alterative exhaust valve ?Emile ?Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 12 juni 2016 21:38 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Just 578 pictures of Marlin S101 ???https://moreboats.com/boats/marlin/32-diesel-electric-s101-manned-submarine/7459?vbr Carsten?? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 12 16:34:12 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 20:34:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1643323619.1384129.1465763652348.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Gamma is ready to dive,?Hank On Sunday, June 12, 2016 2:32 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0354.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 21314 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 12 17:59:55 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 23:59:55 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Just 578 pictures of Marlin S101 In-Reply-To: <085a01d1c4e4$b73a8bb0$25afa310$@nl> References: <59945198.1402383.1465748555267.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <59945198.1402383.1465748555267.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <120546614.1344929.1465752440185.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <804710690.1381090.1465752796098.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1465760255353.2813250.e29fb8537a67613198c9c31b208731ad391f405e@spica.telekom.de> <085a01d1c4e4$b73a8bb0$25afa310$@nl> Message-ID: <1465768795022.2949479.3ba7003d23b6658b57122f2d8b414405440ca239@spica.telekom.de> We found out that we damage the flap ourself. This type of butterfly valve needs to be very exact end stop at the close position. If you overturn it - you damage the inocel metal gasket, Hope to be back from the refit shop in about two weeks -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Just 578 pictures of Marlin S101 Datum: 2016-06-12T22:01:48+0200 Von: "emile via Personal_Submersibles" An: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Seen pict 04 Carsten? Alterative exhaust valve Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 12 juni 2016 21:38 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Just 578 pictures of Marlin S101 https://moreboats.com/boats/marlin/32-diesel-electric-s101-manned-submarine/7459 vbr Carsten ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 12 20:32:02 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 00:32:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <003801d1c4e1$2b048fe0$810dafa0$@telus.net> References: <1802143254.1468896.1465757448684.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <003801d1c4e1$2b048fe0$810dafa0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <628601300.1480808.1465777922786.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Tim,I would think you need some sort of diaphragm pump.Hank On Sunday, June 12, 2016 1:32 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv7624826637 -- filtered {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}#yiv7624826637 filtered {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}#yiv7624826637 filtered {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv7624826637 p.yiv7624826637MsoNormal, #yiv7624826637 li.yiv7624826637MsoNormal, #yiv7624826637 div.yiv7624826637MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv7624826637 a:link, #yiv7624826637 span.yiv7624826637MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7624826637 a:visited, #yiv7624826637 span.yiv7624826637MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7624826637 span.yiv7624826637EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv7624826637 .yiv7624826637MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv7624826637 filtered {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv7624826637 div.yiv7624826637WordSection1 {}#yiv7624826637 Could this compressor be used for breathing air, or would the compressed air be contaminated with oil?? I am trying to source a low pressure high volume air source (8L/min/pax for the habitat at 21fsw.Tim ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 11:51 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: ?your right Cliff, my mistake it is a compressor.Hank ?On Sunday, June 12, 2016 12:49 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: ?VoltAirMaxxx 480C Pewter 200psi Air Compressor Air Bag Suspension Horn System ?http://www.ebay.com/itm/VoltAirMaxxx-480C-Pewter-200psi-Air-Compressor-Air-Bag-Suspension-Horn-System-/371192779795?hash=item566cd05413:g:qsYAAOSwg3FUa38g&vxp=mtr ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 24946 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 12 22:00:32 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 02:00:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <628601300.1480808.1465777922786.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1802143254.1468896.1465757448684.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <003801d1c4e1$2b048fe0$810dafa0$@telus.net> <628601300.1480808.1465777922786.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1063304952.1939364.1465783232853.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Tim,is that 8 liters per minute per person?I was told by Herve Jaubert that it was 20 liters for an ambient submarine,would have thought a habitat would be similar.You could Google Hookah's ( not to be confused with Hooker's) & see whatcompressors / pumps they are using. I think dive compressors run on vegetable oil.Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Tim,I would think you need some sort of diaphragm pump.Hank On Sunday, June 12, 2016 1:32 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv7555829600 -- filtered {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}#yiv7555829600 filtered {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}#yiv7555829600 filtered {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv7555829600 p.yiv7555829600MsoNormal, #yiv7555829600 li.yiv7555829600MsoNormal, #yiv7555829600 div.yiv7555829600MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv7555829600 a:link, #yiv7555829600 span.yiv7555829600MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7555829600 a:visited, #yiv7555829600 span.yiv7555829600MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7555829600 span.yiv7555829600EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv7555829600 .yiv7555829600MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv7555829600 filtered {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv7555829600 div.yiv7555829600WordSection1 {}#yiv7555829600 Could this compressor be used for breathing air, or would the compressed air be contaminated with oil?? I am trying to source a low pressure high volume air source (8L/min/pax for the habitat at 21fsw.Tim ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 11:51 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: ?your right Cliff, my mistake it is a compressor.Hank ?On Sunday, June 12, 2016 12:49 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: ?VoltAirMaxxx 480C Pewter 200psi Air Compressor Air Bag Suspension Horn System ?http://www.ebay.com/itm/VoltAirMaxxx-480C-Pewter-200psi-Air-Compressor-Air-Bag-Suspension-Horn-System-/371192779795?hash=item566cd05413:g:qsYAAOSwg3FUa38g&vxp=mtr ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 13 01:34:55 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 22:34:55 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <1063304952.1939364.1465783232853.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1802143254.1468896.1465757448684.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <003801d1c4e1$2b048fe0$810dafa0$@telus.net> <628601300.1480808.1465777922786.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1063304952.1939364.1465783232853.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <009001d1c535$51e4e930$f5aebb90$@telus.net> Alan, 8L/min/person at rest per DAN. 7.5L/min/person at rest per tech article "A Guide to Breathing Rates in Confined Environments". These two are at 1atm. The SportSub Training Manual states 80cfm for two persons and 120cfm for three, which is about 37.7L/min for two, which is close to Herve's quote. Anyway, the design calls for two compressors each capable of providing sufficient airflow for two resident plus one visiting occupants. The more the better unless the hiss cannot be easily muffled. Brownies make intriguing hookahs, but they are meant to feed demand second stage regulators. They could likely be modified to freeflow. I would think that even vegetable oil has to be filtered out if not prevented entirely from the breathing gas. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 7:01 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Tim, is that 8 liters per minute per person? I was told by Herve Jaubert that it was 20 liters for an ambient submarine, would have thought a habitat would be similar. You could Google Hookah's ( not to be confused with Hooker's) & see what compressors / pumps they are using. I think dive compressors run on vegetable oil. Cheers Alan _____ From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Tim, I would think you need some sort of diaphragm pump. Hank On Sunday, June 12, 2016 1:32 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Could this compressor be used for breathing air, or would the compressed air be contaminated with oil? I am trying to source a low pressure high volume air source (8L/min/pax for the habitat at 21fsw. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 11:51 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: your right Cliff, my mistake it is a compressor. Hank On Sunday, June 12, 2016 12:49 PM, xxx xxxxx > wrote: VoltAirMaxxx 480C Pewter 200psi Air Compressor Air Bag Suspension Horn System http://www.ebay.com/itm/VoltAirMaxxx-480C-Pewter-200psi-Air-Compressor-Air-Bag-Suspension-Horn-System-/371192779795?hash=item566cd05413:g:qsYAAOSwg3FUa38g &vxp=mtr _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 13 07:25:10 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 12:25:10 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <009001d1c535$51e4e930$f5aebb90$@telus.net> References: <1802143254.1468896.1465757448684.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <003801d1c4e1$2b048fe0$810dafa0$@telus.net> <628601300.1480808.1465777922786.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1063304952.1939364.1465783232853.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <009001d1c535$51e4e930$f5aebb90$@telus.net> Message-ID: Google a compressor called "Shoebox". Not sure if it could be adapted for subs as I seem to recall it needs a pressurised feed, but its really small and pumps to 300bar. On 13 June 2016 at 06:34, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alan, > > 8L/min/person at rest per DAN. 7.5L/min/person at rest per tech article > "A Guide to Breathing Rates in Confined Environments". These two are at > 1atm. The SportSub Training Manual states 80cfm for two persons and 120cfm > for three, which is about 37.7L/min for two, which is close to Herve's > quote. Anyway, the design calls for two compressors each capable of > providing sufficient airflow for two resident plus one visiting occupants. > The more the better unless the hiss cannot be easily muffled. > > Brownies make intriguing hookahs, but they are meant to feed demand second > stage regulators. They could likely be modified to freeflow. I would > think that even vegetable oil has to be filtered out if not prevented > entirely from the breathing gas. > > Tim > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Sunday, June 12, 2016 7:01 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: > > > > Tim, > > is that 8 liters per minute per person? > > I was told by Herve Jaubert that it was 20 liters for an ambient submarine, > > would have thought a habitat would be similar. > > You could Google Hookah's ( not to be confused with Hooker's) & see what > > compressors / pumps they are using. I think dive compressors run on > vegetable oil. > > Cheers Alan > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Monday, June 13, 2016 12:32 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: > > > > Tim, > > I would think you need some sort of diaphragm pump. > > Hank > > > > > > On Sunday, June 12, 2016 1:32 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Could this compressor be used for breathing air, or would the compressed > air be contaminated with oil? I am trying to source a low pressure high > volume air source (8L/min/pax for the habitat at 21fsw. > > Tim > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [ > mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org > ] *On Behalf Of *hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Sunday, June 12, 2016 11:51 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: > > > > your right Cliff, my mistake it is a compressor. > > Hank > > > > On Sunday, June 12, 2016 12:49 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > > VoltAirMaxxx 480C Pewter 200psi Air Compressor Air Bag Suspension Horn > System > > > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/VoltAirMaxxx-480C-Pewter-200psi-Air-Compressor-Air-Bag-Suspension-Horn-System-/371192779795?hash=item566cd05413:g:qsYAAOSwg3FUa38g&vxp=mtr > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 13 08:04:38 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 07:04:38 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma In-Reply-To: <1643323619.1384129.1465763652348.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1643323619.1384129.1465763652348.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0C1553CE-D776-4CD1-A61A-89168A005EC1@snyderemail.com> Great!!! > On Jun 12, 2016, at 3:34 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Gamma is ready to dive, > Hank > > > On Sunday, June 12, 2016 2:32 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 13 09:53:27 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 09:53:27 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma In-Reply-To: <0C1553CE-D776-4CD1-A61A-89168A005EC1@snyderemail.com> References: <1643323619.1384129.1465763652348.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <0C1553CE-D776-4CD1-A61A-89168A005EC1@snyderemail.com> Message-ID: Looking great Hank. ~ Doug S. On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Great!!! > > On Jun 12, 2016, at 3:34 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Gamma is ready to dive, > Hank > > > On Sunday, June 12, 2016 2:32 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 13 10:53:17 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 14:53:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma In-Reply-To: References: <1643323619.1384129.1465763652348.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <0C1553CE-D776-4CD1-A61A-89168A005EC1@snyderemail.com> Message-ID: <1348854243.1747068.1465829597180.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks' DougI am pretty happy to back in the water?tomorrow.Hank On Monday, June 13, 2016 7:53 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Looking great Hank. ~ Doug S.? On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Great!!! On Jun 12, 2016, at 3:34 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Gamma is ready to dive,?Hank On Sunday, June 12, 2016 2:32 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 13 13:55:38 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 07:55:38 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Remember the Moki files In-Reply-To: <1465070926565.1712331.bcd0e965fe3ccd582f55b900277af17e716a653c@spica.telekom.de> References: <6bty8uf3ww7i2fecqxrl7qcu.1464394672854@email.android.com> <1553742741.665367.1464396816588.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5748ff78.1314620a.8ffad.ffffa93e@mx.google.com> <38af2636-316a-31ac-168d-6f68377ec99a@ohiohills.com> <1465070926565.1712331.bcd0e965fe3ccd582f55b900277af17e716a653c@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: I decided to test my K-350 battery pods to 600' before I welded them to the hull as I deviated from the plans where there were 4 places that could leak instead of one like the plans show. I didn't like the idea of hydrogen gas venting into the sub hull so I have an 1 1/2" O ring vent plug at each end of the pods, I also have a valve at the bottoms of the pods to equalize the pressure differential or drain if flooded and the removable end caps seal like a hatch on a decompression chamber. Tested them yesterday and they both passed with flying colors! I am just getting around to posting pictures under my name on the site and when done will show them up close to give you a better idea of what I've done. Onward and downward! Rick On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 10:08 AM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > For the newer members. > > > > The Moki Psub Picure files are still online: > > > > https://www.prismnet.com/~moki/subfiles.html > > > > vbr Carsten > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 13 17:43:03 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 21:43:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test References: <36931989.1988099.1465854183345.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <36931989.1988099.1465854183345.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Rick,How did you do the test? ?lowered on a rope?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 13 20:39:54 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 17:39:54 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: <1802143254.1468896.1465757448684.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <003801d1c4e1$2b048fe0$810dafa0$@telus.net> <628601300.1480808.1465777922786.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1063304952.1939364.1465783232853.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <009001d1c535$51e4e930$f5aebb90$@telus.net> Message-ID: <004901d1c5d5$45870ec0$d0952c40$@telus.net> Thanks, James. Looks interesting. Not sure if it's breathing gas appropriate. Worth looking into further, though. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 4:25 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Google a compressor called "Shoebox". Not sure if it could be adapted for subs as I seem to recall it needs a pressurised feed, but its really small and pumps to 300bar. On 13 June 2016 at 06:34, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Alan, 8L/min/person at rest per DAN. 7.5L/min/person at rest per tech article "A Guide to Breathing Rates in Confined Environments". These two are at 1atm. The SportSub Training Manual states 80cfm for two persons and 120cfm for three, which is about 37.7L/min for two, which is close to Herve's quote. Anyway, the design calls for two compressors each capable of providing sufficient airflow for two resident plus one visiting occupants. The more the better unless the hiss cannot be easily muffled. Brownies make intriguing hookahs, but they are meant to feed demand second stage regulators. They could likely be modified to freeflow. I would think that even vegetable oil has to be filtered out if not prevented entirely from the breathing gas. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 7:01 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Tim, is that 8 liters per minute per person? I was told by Herve Jaubert that it was 20 liters for an ambient submarine, would have thought a habitat would be similar. You could Google Hookah's ( not to be confused with Hooker's) & see what compressors / pumps they are using. I think dive compressors run on vegetable oil. Cheers Alan _____ From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Tim, I would think you need some sort of diaphragm pump. Hank On Sunday, June 12, 2016 1:32 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Could this compressor be used for breathing air, or would the compressed air be contaminated with oil? I am trying to source a low pressure high volume air source (8L/min/pax for the habitat at 21fsw. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 11:51 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: your right Cliff, my mistake it is a compressor. Hank On Sunday, June 12, 2016 12:49 PM, xxx xxxxx > wrote: VoltAirMaxxx 480C Pewter 200psi Air Compressor Air Bag Suspension Horn System http://www.ebay.com/itm/VoltAirMaxxx-480C-Pewter-200psi-Air-Compressor-Air-Bag-Suspension-Horn-System-/371192779795?hash=item566cd05413:g:qsYAAOSwg3FUa38g &vxp=mtr _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 13 21:01:03 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 21:01:03 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth rating for 3D prints Message-ID: Hi all, I'm going to test using 3D printed Kort nozzles on Shackleton, and I have an interesting unknown. It would be nice to print them solid, but it would just take too long and probably create shrinkage issues. So the question is, what fill percent suffices (in 3D printing you get to specify the percentage of material fill, the rest being air). I called Greg Cottrell and he didn't have any data on prints, but he did have some on the depth rating of different types of buoyancy foam.I did a napkin calculation and it would appear that, at least if the print behaves like foam of similar density, I'm fine. But does anyone have any data on this? Or does anyone have a small pressure test chamber for which we might print some test samples? I would need to test to about 500 psi. BTW I've updated Shackleton's project page: http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567810/shackleton/ Thanks, Alec -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 13 21:05:36 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 15:05:36 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test In-Reply-To: <36931989.1988099.1465854183345.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <36931989.1988099.1465854183345.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <36931989.1988099.1465854183345.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, Yes, I'll send you a picture of the contraption that I fabricated for the bow of my boat to deploy them. Kind of a Frankenstein looking contraption but it worked. Rick On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 11:43 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > How did you do the test? lowered on a rope? > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 13 21:19:14 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 15:19:14 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth rating for 3D prints In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Some really nice work and good documentation, Thanks Rick On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm going to test using 3D printed Kort nozzles on Shackleton, and I have > an interesting unknown. It would be nice to print them solid, but it would > just take too long and probably create shrinkage issues. So the question > is, what fill percent suffices (in 3D printing you get to specify the > percentage of material fill, the rest being air). I called Greg Cottrell > and he didn't have any data on prints, but he did have some on the depth > rating of different types of buoyancy foam.I did a napkin calculation and > it would appear that, at least if the print behaves like foam of similar > density, I'm fine. But does anyone have any data on this? Or does anyone > have a small pressure test chamber for which we might print some test > samples? I would need to test to about 500 psi. > > BTW I've updated Shackleton's project page: > http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567810/shackleton/ > > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 13 21:36:58 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 21:36:58 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth rating for 3D prints In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Looking wonderful Alec, Shackleton is a one-of-akinder for sure. Great improvisation with the paint arm MacGyver, hahaha :) ~ Doug S. On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 9:19 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Some really nice work and good documentation, Thanks > > Rick > > On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I'm going to test using 3D printed Kort nozzles on Shackleton, and I have >> an interesting unknown. It would be nice to print them solid, but it would >> just take too long and probably create shrinkage issues. So the question >> is, what fill percent suffices (in 3D printing you get to specify the >> percentage of material fill, the rest being air). I called Greg Cottrell >> and he didn't have any data on prints, but he did have some on the depth >> rating of different types of buoyancy foam.I did a napkin calculation and >> it would appear that, at least if the print behaves like foam of similar >> density, I'm fine. But does anyone have any data on this? Or does anyone >> have a small pressure test chamber for which we might print some test >> samples? I would need to test to about 500 psi. >> >> BTW I've updated Shackleton's project page: >> http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567810/shackleton/ >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Alec >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 13 21:43:04 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 11:43:04 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth rating for 3D prints In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Alec, I've done some recent experiments lately with 3D printing underwater parts for my rebreather and pressure housings for lights. I think you may find that the print is porous enough to not retain pressure - this was my finding for cheap nylon SLS stuff (although I imagine you have a FDM machine) - I could blow through it! The more expensive nylon SLS option is great, holds pressure and even smooth enough to make an O-ring seal with no post-processing. I think your partially air-filled print would quickly become fully waterfilled, which is probably not a big deal. Actually while I think of it, does anyone have any negative experiences with nylon absorbing water? Cheers, Steve On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 11:19 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Some really nice work and good documentation, Thanks > > Rick > > On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I'm going to test using 3D printed Kort nozzles on Shackleton, and I have >> an interesting unknown. It would be nice to print them solid, but it would >> just take too long and probably create shrinkage issues. So the question >> is, what fill percent suffices (in 3D printing you get to specify the >> percentage of material fill, the rest being air). I called Greg Cottrell >> and he didn't have any data on prints, but he did have some on the depth >> rating of different types of buoyancy foam.I did a napkin calculation and >> it would appear that, at least if the print behaves like foam of similar >> density, I'm fine. But does anyone have any data on this? Or does anyone >> have a small pressure test chamber for which we might print some test >> samples? I would need to test to about 500 psi. >> >> BTW I've updated Shackleton's project page: >> http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567810/shackleton/ >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Alec >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 13 22:03:09 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 21:03:09 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth rating for 3D prints In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: BTW, Shackleton is starting to look great. Cliff On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 8:01 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm going to test using 3D printed Kort nozzles on Shackleton, and I have > an interesting unknown. It would be nice to print them solid, but it would > just take too long and probably create shrinkage issues. So the question > is, what fill percent suffices (in 3D printing you get to specify the > percentage of material fill, the rest being air). I called Greg Cottrell > and he didn't have any data on prints, but he did have some on the depth > rating of different types of buoyancy foam.I did a napkin calculation and > it would appear that, at least if the print behaves like foam of similar > density, I'm fine. But does anyone have any data on this? Or does anyone > have a small pressure test chamber for which we might print some test > samples? I would need to test to about 500 psi. > > BTW I've updated Shackleton's project page: > http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567810/shackleton/ > > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 13 22:27:46 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 02:27:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth rating for 3D prints In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1186211592.2081527.1465871266800.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,You can send me small samples for pressure testing to 3,000 psi. ?I can weigh the part before and after. Hank On Monday, June 13, 2016 7:01 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all, I'm going to test using 3D printed Kort nozzles on Shackleton, and I have an interesting unknown. It would be nice to print them solid, but it would just take too long and probably create shrinkage issues. So the question is, what fill percent suffices (in 3D printing you get to specify the percentage of material fill, the rest being air). I called Greg Cottrell and he didn't have any data on prints, but he did have some on the depth rating of different types of buoyancy foam.I did a napkin calculation and it would appear that, at least if the print behaves like foam of similar density, I'm fine. But does anyone have any data on this? Or does anyone have a small pressure test chamber for which we might print some test samples? I would need to test to about 500 psi. BTW I've updated Shackleton's project page:?http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567810/shackleton/ Thanks, Alec _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 13 22:33:04 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 22:33:04 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth rating for 3D prints In-Reply-To: <1186211592.2081527.1465871266800.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1186211592.2081527.1465871266800.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Hank! What size is the opening of the test chamber? On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 10:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, > You can send me small samples for pressure testing to 3,000 psi. I can > weigh the part before and after. > > Hank > > > On Monday, June 13, 2016 7:01 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I'm going to test using 3D printed Kort nozzles on Shackleton, and I have > an interesting unknown. It would be nice to print them solid, but it would > just take too long and probably create shrinkage issues. So the question > is, what fill percent suffices (in 3D printing you get to specify the > percentage of material fill, the rest being air). I called Greg Cottrell > and he didn't have any data on prints, but he did have some on the depth > rating of different types of buoyancy foam.I did a napkin calculation and > it would appear that, at least if the print behaves like foam of similar > density, I'm fine. But does anyone have any data on this? Or does anyone > have a small pressure test chamber for which we might print some test > samples? I would need to test to about 500 psi. > > BTW I've updated Shackleton's project page: > http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567810/shackleton/ > > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 14 00:32:30 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 04:32:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth rating for 3D prints In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1169436025.2650862.1465878750628.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Wow you've been busy Alec, looking good.You have a nice high conning tower. Will be no trouble getting in in rough conditions:)Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 1:01 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth rating for 3D prints Hi all, I'm going to test using 3D printed Kort nozzles on Shackleton, and I have an interesting unknown. It would be nice to print them solid, but it would just take too long and probably create shrinkage issues. So the question is, what fill percent suffices (in 3D printing you get to specify the percentage of material fill, the rest being air). I called Greg Cottrell and he didn't have any data on prints, but he did have some on the depth rating of different types of buoyancy foam.I did a napkin calculation and it would appear that, at least if the print behaves like foam of similar density, I'm fine. But does anyone have any data on this? Or does anyone have a small pressure test chamber for which we might print some test samples? I would need to test to about 500 psi. BTW I've updated Shackleton's project page:?http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567810/shackleton/ Thanks, Alec _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 14 01:13:54 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 01:13:54 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth rating for 3D prints In-Reply-To: <1169436025.2650862.1465878750628.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1169436025.2650862.1465878750628.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan, my thoughts exactly... easy rough-water entry/egress. ~ Doug S. On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 12:32 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Wow you've been busy Alec, looking good. > You have a nice high conning tower. Will be no > trouble getting in in rough conditions:) > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 14, 2016 1:01 PM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth rating for 3D prints > > Hi all, > > I'm going to test using 3D printed Kort nozzles on Shackleton, and I have > an interesting unknown. It would be nice to print them solid, but it would > just take too long and probably create shrinkage issues. So the question > is, what fill percent suffices (in 3D printing you get to specify the > percentage of material fill, the rest being air). I called Greg Cottrell > and he didn't have any data on prints, but he did have some on the depth > rating of different types of buoyancy foam.I did a napkin calculation and > it would appear that, at least if the print behaves like foam of similar > density, I'm fine. But does anyone have any data on this? Or does anyone > have a small pressure test chamber for which we might print some test > samples? I would need to test to about 500 psi. > > BTW I've updated Shackleton's project page: > http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567810/shackleton/ > > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 14 07:02:16 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 11:02:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth rating for 3D prints In-Reply-To: <1186211592.2081527.1465871266800.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1186211592.2081527.1465871266800.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <814519364.2240294.1465902136356.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,?It is clear you had a poor experience with a low CT and have ensured it will never happen again ;-) ?very nice work. ?It is a triumph to build such a sub in a confined space. ?I have a couple of options?for pressure testing. ?the?quickest for testing small samples is my tiny chamber. ?That one 1.5 in ID by 4 in long, ? If you need bigger I have 3.5 in ID by 24 Long. ? ?If you need bigger, I can put something together.As I mentioned, I can weigh and measure the part before and after, also I can measure in time increments. ?Just make a test procedure for me.Hank On Monday, June 13, 2016 8:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,You can send me small samples for pressure testing to 3,000 psi. ?I can weigh the part before and after. Hank On Monday, June 13, 2016 7:01 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all, I'm going to test using 3D printed Kort nozzles on Shackleton, and I have an interesting unknown. It would be nice to print them solid, but it would just take too long and probably create shrinkage issues. So the question is, what fill percent suffices (in 3D printing you get to specify the percentage of material fill, the rest being air). I called Greg Cottrell and he didn't have any data on prints, but he did have some on the depth rating of different types of buoyancy foam.I did a napkin calculation and it would appear that, at least if the print behaves like foam of similar density, I'm fine. But does anyone have any data on this? Or does anyone have a small pressure test chamber for which we might print some test samples? I would need to test to about 500 psi. BTW I've updated Shackleton's project page:?http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567810/shackleton/ Thanks, Alec _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 14 08:16:49 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 08:16:49 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth rating for 3D prints In-Reply-To: <814519364.2240294.1465902136356.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1186211592.2081527.1465871266800.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <814519364.2240294.1465902136356.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Hank, I think the small one would work fine. I suppose we should just print wafers that would fit the small one, with different fill percentages, and see if they crack. On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 7:02 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, > It is clear you had a poor experience with a low CT and have ensured it > will never happen again ;-) very nice work. It is a triumph to build such > a sub in a confined space. > I have a couple of options for pressure testing. the quickest for testing > small samples is my tiny chamber. That one 1.5 in ID by 4 in long, If > you need bigger I have 3.5 in ID by 24 Long. If you need bigger, I can > put something together. > As I mentioned, I can weigh and measure the part before and after, also I > can measure in time increments. Just make a test procedure for me. > Hank > > > > On Monday, June 13, 2016 8:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Alec, > You can send me small samples for pressure testing to 3,000 psi. I can > weigh the part before and after. > > Hank > > > On Monday, June 13, 2016 7:01 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I'm going to test using 3D printed Kort nozzles on Shackleton, and I have > an interesting unknown. It would be nice to print them solid, but it would > just take too long and probably create shrinkage issues. So the question > is, what fill percent suffices (in 3D printing you get to specify the > percentage of material fill, the rest being air). I called Greg Cottrell > and he didn't have any data on prints, but he did have some on the depth > rating of different types of buoyancy foam.I did a napkin calculation and > it would appear that, at least if the print behaves like foam of similar > density, I'm fine. But does anyone have any data on this? Or does anyone > have a small pressure test chamber for which we might print some test > samples? I would need to test to about 500 psi. > > BTW I've updated Shackleton's project page: > http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567810/shackleton/ > > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 14 15:32:42 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 19:32:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth rating for 3D prints In-Reply-To: References: <1186211592.2081527.1465871266800.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <814519364.2240294.1465902136356.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2133196500.2490183.1465932762715.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,No problem, just mail them to me.Hank On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 6:16 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Hank, I think the small one would work fine. I suppose we should just print wafers that would fit the small one, with different fill percentages, and see if they crack.? On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 7:02 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,?It is clear you had a poor experience with a low CT and have ensured it will never happen again ;-) ?very nice work.? It is a triumph to build such a sub in a confined space. ?I have a couple of options?for pressure testing. ?the?quickest for testing small samples is my tiny chamber.? That one 1.5 in ID by 4 in long, ? If you need bigger I have 3.5 in ID by 24 Long. ? ?If you need bigger, I can put something together.As I mentioned, I can weigh and measure the part before and after, also I can measure in time increments.? Just make a test procedure for me.Hank On Monday, June 13, 2016 8:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,You can send me small samples for pressure testing to 3,000 psi.? I can weigh the part before and after. Hank On Monday, June 13, 2016 7:01 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all, I'm going to test using 3D printed Kort nozzles on Shackleton, and I have an interesting unknown. It would be nice to print them solid, but it would just take too long and probably create shrinkage issues. So the question is, what fill percent suffices (in 3D printing you get to specify the percentage of material fill, the rest being air). I called Greg Cottrell and he didn't have any data on prints, but he did have some on the depth rating of different types of buoyancy foam.I did a napkin calculation and it would appear that, at least if the print behaves like foam of similar density, I'm fine. But does anyone have any data on this? Or does anyone have a small pressure test chamber for which we might print some test samples? I would need to test to about 500 psi. BTW I've updated Shackleton's project page:?http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567810/shackleton/ Thanks, Alec _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 14 16:20:20 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 20:20:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive report References: <1214194906.2599127.1465935620401.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1214194906.2599127.1465935620401.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> First time ever ( I think) ?that I was able to dive on the first test trip. ?I had to pull the sub out of the water onto the ramp to remove my new ?weight from the front. ?Then add 4 big rocks from shore in the back end, and off I went. ? ?The Perry thrusters work okay but one is making noise in reverse, it is the one that has the original spring seal. ?I will put the new cartridge seal in it now. ? Amazingly they only draw 14 amps at full speed and that is for both, maybe my amp meter is wrong. ?The sub is very slow to react to coarse correction, when travelling strait ahead I can stop one motor and it keeps going strait for a long way, I have to reverse one motor while underway to turn. ?I should have mounted them in the back on an angle, I did testing last year and the worked well. ?Having them strait is less responsive. ?When I launch the sub it sits nice and level and higher as expected, the sub is very stable. ?BUTTTT ?when I start to dive the sub lists bad to one side, once I am submerged it is fine and I can cruise around like always. ?When I surface the sub has a bad list again???? ?I have to get out and shift my weight to the high side and wait for the sub to level out. ?Once level it stays level and is stable again. ?Weird!!! ? ?I have a common vent for both front and common vent for both rear tanks. ?I think the air is taking the path of least resistance to one side and when I surface the one side is high and the air spills out the bottom instead of filling the low side tanks. ?I am not sure how to fix this easily, any ideas are welcome. ?Worst case, I can add air lines to each side, yuk! ?there has to be a simple fix.I guess lengthening the pipes under the tanks would help, the air would have to go deeper forcing it to the opposite side.I met some nice people and had a nice visit. ?My trailer handles the weight okay but my truck feels it. ?Might have to get a kick ASS truck like Tim has with a nice rattling diesel. ?All and all a good first dive.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 14 17:56:45 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 11:56:45 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive report In-Reply-To: <1214194906.2599127.1465935620401.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1214194906.2599127.1465935620401.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1214194906.2599127.1465935620401.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, Sounds like a successful and educational trip! I had to laugh when I read about using rocks laying around to trim out. When I took one of my battery pod's out a couple of days ago to test it to 600' I had strapped what I thought was the correct amount of 2" X 4",s to it based on my calk's to get her just slightly negative and when we slacked her into the water, she floated! The ground swells were about 8' so would of been a hassle to take some of the wood off so I added my diving weight belt to it and that wasn't enough so I tied my 13 lb dansforth anchor to it and that did the trick. I was just hoping and praying that I didn't touch bottom and set the bloody anchor. I should of taken a picture of it as it was rather Mcgiver looking but it worked! Rick On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 10:20 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > First time ever ( I think) that I was able to dive on the first test > trip. I had to pull the sub out of the water onto the ramp to remove my > new weight from the front. Then add 4 big rocks from shore in the back > end, and off I went. The Perry thrusters work okay but one is making > noise in reverse, it is the one that has the original spring seal. I will > put the new cartridge seal in it now. Amazingly they only draw 14 amps at > full speed and that is for both, maybe my amp meter is wrong. The sub is > very slow to react to coarse correction, when travelling strait ahead I can > stop one motor and it keeps going strait for a long way, I have to reverse > one motor while underway to turn. I should have mounted them in the back > on an angle, I did testing last year and the worked well. Having them > strait is less responsive. When I launch the sub it sits nice and level > and higher as expected, the sub is very stable. BUTTTT when I start to > dive the sub lists bad to one side, once I am submerged it is fine and I > can cruise around like always. When I surface the sub has a bad list > again???? I have to get out and shift my weight to the high side and wait > for the sub to level out. Once level it stays level and is stable again. > Weird!!! I have a common vent for both front and common vent for both > rear tanks. I think the air is taking the path of least resistance to one > side and when I surface the one side is high and the air spills out the > bottom instead of filling the low side tanks. I am not sure how to fix > this easily, any ideas are welcome. Worst case, I can add air lines to > each side, yuk! there has to be a simple fix. > I guess lengthening the pipes under the tanks would help, the air would > have to go deeper forcing it to the opposite side. > I met some nice people and had a nice visit. My trailer handles the > weight okay but my truck feels it. Might have to get a kick ASS truck like > Tim has with a nice rattling diesel. All and all a good first dive. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 14 18:05:36 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 22:05:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive report In-Reply-To: <1214194906.2599127.1465935620401.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1214194906.2599127.1465935620401.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1214194906.2599127.1465935620401.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <644502689.3206661.1465941936467.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,am wondering if the instability has anything to do with the changein metacentric height.http://maritime.org/doc/fleetsub/chap5.htm?? It is possible to design a ballast system where you are stable onthe surface & stable under the water, but during the transitions thecenter of buoyancy goes below the center of gravity & leaves the subvulnerable to flipping upside down.?? It could be that at this point of transition if the center of buoyancy ¢er of gravity?come close, then any slight weight?imbalance from oneside to the other of the centerline of the sub?is magnified. You could always use your vertical thrusters to help control things inthe mean time.Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 8:20 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive report First time ever ( I think) ?that I was able to dive on the first test trip. ?I had to pull the sub out of the water onto the ramp to remove my new ?weight from the front. ?Then add 4 big rocks from shore in the back end, and off I went. ? ?The Perry thrusters work okay but one is making noise in reverse, it is the one that has the original spring seal. ?I will put the new cartridge seal in it now. ? Amazingly they only draw 14 amps at full speed and that is for both, maybe my amp meter is wrong. ?The sub is very slow to react to coarse correction, when travelling strait ahead I can stop one motor and it keeps going strait for a long way, I have to reverse one motor while underway to turn. ?I should have mounted them in the back on an angle, I did testing last year and the worked well. ?Having them strait is less responsive. ?When I launch the sub it sits nice and level and higher as expected, the sub is very stable. ?BUTTTT ?when I start to dive the sub lists bad to one side, once I am submerged it is fine and I can cruise around like always. ?When I surface the sub has a bad list again???? ?I have to get out and shift my weight to the high side and wait for the sub to level out. ?Once level it stays level and is stable again. ?Weird!!! ? ?I have a common vent for both front and common vent for both rear tanks. ?I think the air is taking the path of least resistance to one side and when I surface the one side is high and the air spills out the bottom instead of filling the low side tanks. ?I am not sure how to fix this easily, any ideas are welcome. ?Worst case, I can add air lines to each side, yuk! ?there has to be a simple fix.I guess lengthening the pipes under the tanks would help, the air would have to go deeper forcing it to the opposite side.I met some nice people and had a nice visit. ?My trailer handles the weight okay but my truck feels it. ?Might have to get a kick ASS truck like Tim has with a nice rattling diesel. ?All and all a good first dive.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 14 18:18:49 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 22:18:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive report In-Reply-To: <644502689.3206661.1465941936467.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1214194906.2599127.1465935620401.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1214194906.2599127.1465935620401.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <644502689.3206661.1465941936467.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1199083827.2620268.1465942729948.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I am not getting that feeling. ?I know what you mean, my little yellow sub had that problem. ?i still think it has to do with the small air line going to witch ever tank has the least resistance of the two. ?But you could be right?Hank On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 4:05 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,am wondering if the instability has anything to do with the changein metacentric height.http://maritime.org/doc/fleetsub/chap5.htm?? It is possible to design a ballast system where you are stable onthe surface & stable under the water, but during the transitions thecenter of buoyancy goes below the center of gravity & leaves the subvulnerable to flipping upside down.?? It could be that at this point of transition if the center of buoyancy ¢er of gravity?come close, then any slight weight?imbalance from oneside to the other of the centerline of the sub?is magnified. You could always use your vertical thrusters to help control things inthe mean time.Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 8:20 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive report First time ever ( I think) ?that I was able to dive on the first test trip. ?I had to pull the sub out of the water onto the ramp to remove my new ?weight from the front. ?Then add 4 big rocks from shore in the back end, and off I went. ? ?The Perry thrusters work okay but one is making noise in reverse, it is the one that has the original spring seal. ?I will put the new cartridge seal in it now. ? Amazingly they only draw 14 amps at full speed and that is for both, maybe my amp meter is wrong. ?The sub is very slow to react to coarse correction, when travelling strait ahead I can stop one motor and it keeps going strait for a long way, I have to reverse one motor while underway to turn. ?I should have mounted them in the back on an angle, I did testing last year and the worked well. ?Having them strait is less responsive. ?When I launch the sub it sits nice and level and higher as expected, the sub is very stable. ?BUTTTT ?when I start to dive the sub lists bad to one side, once I am submerged it is fine and I can cruise around like always. ?When I surface the sub has a bad list again???? ?I have to get out and shift my weight to the high side and wait for the sub to level out. ?Once level it stays level and is stable again. ?Weird!!! ? ?I have a common vent for both front and common vent for both rear tanks. ?I think the air is taking the path of least resistance to one side and when I surface the one side is high and the air spills out the bottom instead of filling the low side tanks. ?I am not sure how to fix this easily, any ideas are welcome. ?Worst case, I can add air lines to each side, yuk! ?there has to be a simple fix.I guess lengthening the pipes under the tanks would help, the air would have to go deeper forcing it to the opposite side.I met some nice people and had a nice visit. ?My trailer handles the weight okay but my truck feels it. ?Might have to get a kick ASS truck like Tim has with a nice rattling diesel. ?All and all a good first dive.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 14 18:31:04 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 22:31:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive report In-Reply-To: <1214194906.2599127.1465935620401.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1214194906.2599127.1465935620401.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1214194906.2599127.1465935620401.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <387796792.3204713.1465943464654.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,If you want to go with independent valves.Vance has a good design for pneumatically operated top hat valves that he handed out drawings for at the Islamorada conference. Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 8:20 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive report First time ever ( I think) ?that I was able to dive on the first test trip. ?I had to pull the sub out of the water onto the ramp to remove my new ?weight from the front. ?Then add 4 big rocks from shore in the back end, and off I went. ? ?The Perry thrusters work okay but one is making noise in reverse, it is the one that has the original spring seal. ?I will put the new cartridge seal in it now. ? Amazingly they only draw 14 amps at full speed and that is for both, maybe my amp meter is wrong. ?The sub is very slow to react to coarse correction, when travelling strait ahead I can stop one motor and it keeps going strait for a long way, I have to reverse one motor while underway to turn. ?I should have mounted them in the back on an angle, I did testing last year and the worked well. ?Having them strait is less responsive. ?When I launch the sub it sits nice and level and higher as expected, the sub is very stable. ?BUTTTT ?when I start to dive the sub lists bad to one side, once I am submerged it is fine and I can cruise around like always. ?When I surface the sub has a bad list again???? ?I have to get out and shift my weight to the high side and wait for the sub to level out. ?Once level it stays level and is stable again. ?Weird!!! ? ?I have a common vent for both front and common vent for both rear tanks. ?I think the air is taking the path of least resistance to one side and when I surface the one side is high and the air spills out the bottom instead of filling the low side tanks. ?I am not sure how to fix this easily, any ideas are welcome. ?Worst case, I can add air lines to each side, yuk! ?there has to be a simple fix.I guess lengthening the pipes under the tanks would help, the air would have to go deeper forcing it to the opposite side.I met some nice people and had a nice visit. ?My trailer handles the weight okay but my truck feels it. ?Might have to get a kick ASS truck like Tim has with a nice rattling diesel. ?All and all a good first dive.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 14 20:29:44 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 00:29:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma launch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1084889019.2677803.1465950584929.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Here is a video of todays launch, ?it does not sit as low anymore, it sits?nice and level now.Hank On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 6:26 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbAKy53itRc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2016-06-14 at 6.25 PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 15381 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 14 20:32:18 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 00:32:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive report In-Reply-To: <387796792.3204713.1465943464654.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1214194906.2599127.1465935620401.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1214194906.2599127.1465935620401.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <387796792.3204713.1465943464654.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <673585485.2650751.1465950738255.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I think actually, I will extend my bottom vents so the air does not spill out of the higher tank. ?I want to try simple solutions first. ?Thanks' for the input, it helps.Hank On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 4:34 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,If you want to go with independent valves.Vance has a good design for pneumatically operated top hat valves that he handed out drawings for at the Islamorada conference. Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 8:20 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive report First time ever ( I think) ?that I was able to dive on the first test trip. ?I had to pull the sub out of the water onto the ramp to remove my new ?weight from the front. ?Then add 4 big rocks from shore in the back end, and off I went. ? ?The Perry thrusters work okay but one is making noise in reverse, it is the one that has the original spring seal. ?I will put the new cartridge seal in it now. ? Amazingly they only draw 14 amps at full speed and that is for both, maybe my amp meter is wrong. ?The sub is very slow to react to coarse correction, when travelling strait ahead I can stop one motor and it keeps going strait for a long way, I have to reverse one motor while underway to turn. ?I should have mounted them in the back on an angle, I did testing last year and the worked well. ?Having them strait is less responsive. ?When I launch the sub it sits nice and level and higher as expected, the sub is very stable. ?BUTTTT ?when I start to dive the sub lists bad to one side, once I am submerged it is fine and I can cruise around like always. ?When I surface the sub has a bad list again???? ?I have to get out and shift my weight to the high side and wait for the sub to level out. ?Once level it stays level and is stable again. ?Weird!!! ? ?I have a common vent for both front and common vent for both rear tanks. ?I think the air is taking the path of least resistance to one side and when I surface the one side is high and the air spills out the bottom instead of filling the low side tanks. ?I am not sure how to fix this easily, any ideas are welcome. ?Worst case, I can add air lines to each side, yuk! ?there has to be a simple fix.I guess lengthening the pipes under the tanks would help, the air would have to go deeper forcing it to the opposite side.I met some nice people and had a nice visit. ?My trailer handles the weight okay but my truck feels it. ?Might have to get a kick ASS truck like Tim has with a nice rattling diesel. ?All and all a good first dive.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 14 23:35:07 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 20:35:07 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma launch In-Reply-To: <1084889019.2677803.1465950584929.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1084889019.2677803.1465950584929.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000201d1c6b6$ea9006b0$bfb01410$@telus.net> Very cool, Hank. You always make launching look easy-peasy. The sub is a heavy RV, go with the diesel truck. Don't you have a spare highway tractor kicking around? Interesting results on the longitudinal stability. It shows that the wetted length provides a fair amount of keel effect. Have you noticed any reduction in forward speed due to the change from the conical tail to the hemispherical stern? Probably not since you are using different thrusters. Another note, although there is still a lot of Gamma in that submarine, there is very little Nekton. Time to start calling it Pronk Gamma. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 5:30 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma launch Here is a video of todays launch, it does not sit as low anymore, it sits nice and level now. Hank On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 6:26 PM, xxx xxxxx > wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbAKy53itRc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 15381 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 15 07:16:28 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 11:16:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma launch In-Reply-To: <000201d1c6b6$ea9006b0$bfb01410$@telus.net> References: <1084889019.2677803.1465950584929.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000201d1c6b6$ea9006b0$bfb01410$@telus.net> Message-ID: <2035510824.1137506.1465989388698.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Tim,Once I removed the front weight, it launched as usual, the way you saw it at kootenay Lake. ?I do have a IHC single axel truck with 300 hp Cat. ?But not very comfortable and it would be tight to maneuver at Premier Lake. ?It might be worth it though when I retire, I could put a big sleeper on it and go subbing. ?The speed of the sub is about the same, the big difference is the Perry thrusters have a great prop for reversing. ?Outstanding in fact, I am very happy with them. ?The best part is they look cool, they are very big so they look impressive.I think Alan my be onto the problem, with the stability, but I will enjoy my denial for a day or two ;-)Hank On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 9:35 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv6408174517 #yiv6408174517 -- _filtered #yiv6408174517 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv6408174517 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv6408174517 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv6408174517 #yiv6408174517 p.yiv6408174517MsoNormal, #yiv6408174517 li.yiv6408174517MsoNormal, #yiv6408174517 div.yiv6408174517MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv6408174517 a:link, #yiv6408174517 span.yiv6408174517MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6408174517 a:visited, #yiv6408174517 span.yiv6408174517MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6408174517 span.yiv6408174517EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv6408174517 .yiv6408174517MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv6408174517 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv6408174517 div.yiv6408174517WordSection1 {}#yiv6408174517 Very cool, Hank. You always make launching look easy-peasy.? The sub is a heavy RV, go with the diesel truck.? Don't you have a spare highway tractor kicking around?Interesting results on the longitudinal stability. It shows that the wetted length provides a fair amount of keel effect.? Have you noticed any reduction in forward speed due to the change from the conical tail to the hemispherical stern? Probably not since you are using different thrusters.Another note, although there is still a lot of Gamma in that submarine, there is very little Nekton.? Time to start calling it Pronk Gamma.Tim ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 5:30 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma launch ?Here is a video of todays launch, ?it does not sit as low anymore, it sits?nice and level now.Hank ?On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 6:26 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: ?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbAKy53itRc ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 15381 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 15 19:23:17 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 23:23:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Forward Facing Scanner References: <734713685.3950214.1466032997413.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <734713685.3950214.1466032997413.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Came across this ROV article on the Garmin panoptix sonar.The writer is wanting to adapt it for use on a ROV. It says it is rated for 97 meters & is oil filled. Cost for the transducer & display module is quoted as$2,500-Garmin Panoptix Sonar | marinesimulation.com | | | | | | | | | | | Garmin Panoptix Sonar | marinesimulation.com | | | | I have looked at the Simrad forward scan but have never been able to finda depth rating for it.http://www.simrad-yachting.com/en-GB/Products/Echosounders/Transducers/ForwardScan-Transducer-en-gb.aspxAlan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 15 19:38:34 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 23:38:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Subsea foam References: <92002406.4018821.1466033914504.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <92002406.4018821.1466033914504.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> ? Just passing on more stuff, no need to be polite & reply :)Foam rated to 2,400ft when coated. The manufacturer is not far from Seattle.Equipping Remotely Operated Vehicles with Subsea Polyurethane to Increase Dive Depth | | | | | | | | | | | Equipping Remotely Operated Vehicles with Subsea Polyurethane to Increase D... This article shows how the subsea polyurethane foam supplied by General Plastics was integrated in remotely oper... | | | | http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=12211 Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 16 16:32:29 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 10:32:29 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Subsea foam In-Reply-To: <92002406.4018821.1466033914504.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <92002406.4018821.1466033914504.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <92002406.4018821.1466033914504.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I am going to install a removable penitrator for a future hydraulics arm and am having no luck finding a supplier that can provide a piece of 2" thick by 9" od by 6" id 516 grade 70 steel. Seem like all the suppliers are in Mumbai! Rick On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 1:38 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Just passing on more stuff, no need to be polite & reply :) > Foam rated to 2,400ft when coated. The manufacturer is not > far from Seattle. > Equipping Remotely Operated Vehicles with Subsea Polyurethane to Increase > Dive Depth > > Equipping Remotely Operated Vehicles with Subsea Polyurethane to Increase > D... > This article shows how the subsea polyurethane foam supplied by General > Plastics was integrated in remotely oper... > > > http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=12211 > > Alan > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 16 16:44:20 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 20:44:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Subsea foam In-Reply-To: References: <92002406.4018821.1466033914504.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <92002406.4018821.1466033914504.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1162496974.52623.1466109860810.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Rick, I can get that overnight, why so thick? ?I have a ring just that size on my shelf except 1 inch thick, already machined. ?Gamma has that size rings for the ports\penetrators.?Hank On Thursday, June 16, 2016 2:32 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I am going to install a removable penitrator for a future hydraulics arm and am having no luck finding a supplier that can provide a piece of 2" thick by 9" od by 6" id 516 grade 70 steel. Seem like all the suppliers are in Mumbai! Rick On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 1:38 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Just passing on more stuff, no need to be polite & reply :)Foam rated to 2,400ft when coated. The manufacturer is not far from Seattle.Equipping Remotely Operated Vehicles with Subsea Polyurethane to Increase Dive Depth | | | | | | | | | | | Equipping Remotely Operated Vehicles with Subsea Polyurethane to Increase D... This article shows how the subsea polyurethane foam supplied by General Plastics was integrated in remotely oper... | | | | http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=12211 Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 16 16:57:11 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 20:57:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Subsea foam In-Reply-To: <1162496974.52623.1466109860810.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <92002406.4018821.1466033914504.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <92002406.4018821.1466033914504.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1162496974.52623.1466109860810.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <911199089.71283.1466110631457.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Rick if you need that thick, contact Var-Steel In Calgary Alberta Canada. ?They can ship that the next day.Hank On Thursday, June 16, 2016 2:44 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, I can get that overnight, why so thick? ?I have a ring just that size on my shelf except 1 inch thick, already machined. ?Gamma has that size rings for the ports\penetrators.?Hank On Thursday, June 16, 2016 2:32 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I am going to install a removable penitrator for a future hydraulics arm and am having no luck finding a supplier that can provide a piece of 2" thick by 9" od by 6" id 516 grade 70 steel. Seem like all the suppliers are in Mumbai! Rick On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 1:38 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Just passing on more stuff, no need to be polite & reply :)Foam rated to 2,400ft when coated. The manufacturer is not far from Seattle.Equipping Remotely Operated Vehicles with Subsea Polyurethane to Increase Dive Depth | | | | | | | | | | | Equipping Remotely Operated Vehicles with Subsea Polyurethane to Increase D... This article shows how the subsea polyurethane foam supplied by General Plastics was integrated in remotely oper... | | | | http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=12211 Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 16 18:00:54 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 12:00:54 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Subsea foam In-Reply-To: <1162496974.52623.1466109860810.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <92002406.4018821.1466033914504.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <92002406.4018821.1466033914504.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1162496974.52623.1466109860810.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I was just going by what the prints call out for a view port ring for the K-350. I would also still need the 1" plate that would go in it with the threaded holes for the supply and return for the hydraulic fluid. Rick On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 10:44 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, I can get that overnight, why so thick? I have a ring just that > size on my shelf except 1 inch thick, already machined. Gamma has that > size rings for the ports\penetrators. > Hank > > > On Thursday, June 16, 2016 2:32 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > I am going to install a removable penitrator for a future hydraulics arm > and am having no luck finding a supplier that can provide a piece of 2" > thick by 9" od by 6" id 516 grade 70 steel. Seem like all the suppliers are > in Mumbai! > > Rick > > On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 1:38 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Just passing on more stuff, no need to be polite & reply :) > Foam rated to 2,400ft when coated. The manufacturer is not > far from Seattle. > Equipping Remotely Operated Vehicles with Subsea Polyurethane to Increase > Dive Depth > > Equipping Remotely Operated Vehicles with Subsea Polyurethane to Increase > D... > This article shows how the subsea polyurethane foam supplied by General > Plastics was integrated in remotely oper... > > > http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=12211 > > Alan > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 16 18:17:17 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 22:17:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Subsea foam In-Reply-To: References: <92002406.4018821.1466033914504.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <92002406.4018821.1466033914504.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1162496974.52623.1466109860810.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <75405431.88868.1466115437427.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Rick,I get it, your going to machine a 2 in ring the same as a ?port. ?That makes?sense, don't get me wrong, I make everything extra thick also. ? ?Give Var-Steel a call or you can get a quote by e mail. ?Hank On Thursday, June 16, 2016 4:00 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I was just going by what the prints call out for a view port ring for the K-350. I would also still need the 1" plate that would go in it with the threaded holes for the supply and return for the hydraulic fluid. Rick On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 10:44 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, I can get that overnight, why so thick?? I have a ring just that size on my shelf except 1 inch thick, already machined.? Gamma has that size rings for the ports\penetrators.?Hank On Thursday, June 16, 2016 2:32 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I am going to install a removable penitrator for a future hydraulics arm and am having no luck finding a supplier that can provide a piece of 2" thick by 9" od by 6" id 516 grade 70 steel. Seem like all the suppliers are in Mumbai! Rick On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 1:38 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Just passing on more stuff, no need to be polite & reply :)Foam rated to 2,400ft when coated. The manufacturer is not far from Seattle.Equipping Remotely Operated Vehicles with Subsea Polyurethane to Increase Dive Depth | | | | | | | | | | | Equipping Remotely Operated Vehicles with Subsea Polyurethane to Increase D... This article shows how the subsea polyurethane foam supplied by General Plastics was integrated in remotely oper... | | | | http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=12211 Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 16 20:18:20 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 12:18:20 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: Tesla. Batteries of salt water. Message-ID: <576341d0.0268620a.62937.64a1@mx.google.com> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2739768/The-sports-car-runs-SALTWATER-Vehicle-goes-0-60mph-2-8-seconds-just-approved-EU-roads.html Well guys here is the answer to a maidens prayer. However all you lake divers will have to wait and play second fiddle to us salties. Salt water Batteries in the car!!! Hugh -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 16 22:04:44 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 10:04:44 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: Tesla. Batteries of salt water. In-Reply-To: <576341d0.0268620a.62937.64a1@mx.google.com> References: <576341d0.0268620a.62937.64a1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <04d282d2-ae67-5bb8-9778-6ebefeb99faf@archivale.com> My mistake; it's less than 400 km from 400 liters - there are two 200 liter tanks. Marc On 6/17/2016 8:18 AM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2739768/The-sports-car-runs-SALTWATER-Vehicle-goes-0-60mph-2-8-seconds-just-approved-EU-roads.html > > > > Well guys here is the answer to a maidens prayer. However all you lake > divers will have to wait and play second fiddle to us salties. > > Salt water Batteries in the car!!! Hugh > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 16 22:03:26 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 10:03:26 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: Tesla. Batteries of salt water. In-Reply-To: <576341d0.0268620a.62937.64a1@mx.google.com> References: <576341d0.0268620a.62937.64a1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Saltwater batteries have been known for a long time - they are routinely used for signals for shipwreck survivors, for obvious reasons. For almost equally obvious reasons, they are not used for anything else, as they are horrendously inefficient (less than 400 km range from a 200 lite3r tank) and expensive to replace. Marc de Piolenc On 6/17/2016 8:18 AM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2739768/The-sports-car-runs-SALTWATER-Vehicle-goes-0-60mph-2-8-seconds-just-approved-EU-roads.html > > > > Well guys here is the answer to a maidens prayer. However all you lake > divers will have to wait and play second fiddle to us salties. > > Salt water Batteries in the car!!! Hugh > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 17 06:53:35 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 11:53:35 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery Question Message-ID: Hi All Could anyone give me a hand with a battery charging question. It sounds simple enough but I seem to be getting conflicting advice all over the place. How do I charge my battery banks correctly? I have just spent a lot of money on a brand new set of batteries and I don't want to charge them incorrectly. The batteries are WING ESL 55-12. AGM 12v 55ah On the sheet it gives charging instruction. Float 2.25 - 2.30 VPC @ 25deg C Cycling 2.35 @ 25deg C Max 2.4 VPC Max Ripple 0.05C (A) This seems straight forward enough for a single battery, but I have them configured as a bank which seems to be where the issue lies. 2 pairs in parallel, then the 2 pairs joined in series to give 24v. I will have to charge them as a bank through the 24v output terminals. I will add the spec sheet of the batteries. Hope it gets through. Any advice appreciated. Regards James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ESL55-12 Wing Submarine battery.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 366444 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 17 10:43:21 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 15:43:21 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Batteries Message-ID: did anyone get my post re batteries? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 17 10:57:29 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 22:57:29 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <191d367b-f629-e04c-9960-ece88528a368@archivale.com> I got it. On 6/17/2016 10:43 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > did anyone get my post re batteries? > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 17 11:44:34 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 16:44:34 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Batteries In-Reply-To: <191d367b-f629-e04c-9960-ece88528a368@archivale.com> References: <191d367b-f629-e04c-9960-ece88528a368@archivale.com> Message-ID: ok thanks. Just no replies then! On 17 June 2016 at 15:57, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I got it. > > > On 6/17/2016 10:43 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> did anyone get my post re batteries? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > -- > Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog > Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog > Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 > Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc > Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 17 14:03:42 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 12:03:42 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As far as battery interconnections are concerned, in the absence of a battery / cell management module, it is next to impossible to ensure that individual battery voltages stay balanced. That said, you can minimize the potential for unbalance by making sure that your parallel batteries are connected cross-string, instead of to the terminals of one battery in the parallel bank. By this, I mean make the positive connection to the first battery in the parallel string, and the negative connection to the last battery in the string. As far as the series connections go, there is only one way to hook it up, but you can minimize the unbalance by ensuring that every battery is of the same type and capacity, and of the same age (I.e. replace all batteries simultaneously). Also, try not to tap off of a lesser number of batteries if you need a lower voltage for some purpose - instead, use a DC-DC converter powered by the entire string. As for charging, see if a recommended charge curve is provided by your battery manufacturer, and source an appropriate charger. The specs you listed are straightforward: maximum 2.4 Volts per cell (Implying 14.4 Volts max for a 12V battery) during charge, with nominal charge voltage 2.35 V per cell (14.1 V on a 12V battery. Once charged, the float voltage must drop to 2.25 - 2.3 Volts per cell (13.5V - 13.8V on a 12V battery). For a 24V system, you would double these values. The maximum ripple spec has to do with the quality of the rectifier output. A good quality charger will have circuitry to create more pulses per AC cycle and smoothing capacitors on the output side to better approximate a DC output. The ripple is the distance between minimum and maximum peak amplitudes on the "DC" output side. Sean On June 17, 2016 4:53:35 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All > >Could anyone give me a hand with a battery charging question. It >sounds >simple enough but I seem to be getting conflicting advice all over the >place. > >How do I charge my battery banks correctly? > >I have just spent a lot of money on a brand new set of batteries and I >don't want to charge them incorrectly. > >The batteries are WING ESL 55-12. AGM >12v >55ah > >On the sheet it gives charging instruction. > >Float 2.25 - 2.30 VPC @ 25deg C >Cycling 2.35 @ 25deg C >Max 2.4 VPC Max Ripple 0.05C (A) > >This seems straight forward enough for a single battery, but I have >them >configured as a bank which seems to be where the issue lies. > >2 pairs in parallel, then the 2 pairs joined in series to give 24v. > >I will have to charge them as a bank through the 24v output terminals. > >I will add the spec sheet of the batteries. Hope it gets through. > >Any advice appreciated. > >Regards >James > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 17 16:05:25 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 20:05:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <160698615.5159034.1466193925391.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> James,I have created a Desk top shortcut to Psubs mail list, as it isnow updated immediately & can be checked against for missing posts.Alan From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2016 2:43 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Batteries did anyone get my post re batteries? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 17 16:40:55 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 20:40:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved References: <752376990.453255.1466196055426.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <752376990.453255.1466196055426.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Today I dove Gamma to 80 feet and the cause of my list became clear. ?First off I extended my bottom vent tubes on the front MBT's and that fixed the list once surfaced. ?But the real problem was quite scary. ?It turns out that I am not evacuating all the air from my MBT's because there is not enough height difference between the vent valve and the tanks. ?I added about 200 lbs more weight than my calculations called for and that compensated for the trapped air. ?Now, I am no math wiz, so I chalked it up to a math error. ? When the sub is on an angle the air does not escape fully. ?I did my dive and vented till the sub was under and let her sink. ?I was not paying attention to the sink rate because I expected it to sink slowly thinking all the air was out of the MBT's. ?I was more concerned about the first time diving after all the modifications I have done. ?I have not done a deep test yet. ?Well I hit the bottom like a ton of bricks and Gamma went into the mud pretty deep I guess, because I had to use up 500 psi of air get it loose from the bottom. ?Once it was free, I was a rocket heading to the surface and the sub did about 4 full rotations on the way up and then It breached. ?Man that was freaky, so now I know the sub is too heavy because the air is trapped in the MBT's. ?? There is an easy solution, I will mount manual vent valves to the tanks and rotate them with linkages from the main vent valve. ?I will leave the existing lines in place to get the air into the tanks but the extra valves will do the venting as well as the original vent valves.Hank Oh ya and my hip waders had another leak. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 17 16:45:08 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 20:45:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <449470643.445570.1466196308671.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> James,I charge my batteries 12v at a time, this way I know they are performing evenly. ?I do this because Sean said to ;-)I also bought the most expensive battery charger available because I had some bad luck with a cheaper one. ?The batteries are expensive, so it seems a small price to pay.Hank On Friday, June 17, 2016 12:19 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: As far as battery interconnections are concerned, in the absence of a battery / cell management module, it is next to impossible to ensure that individual battery voltages stay balanced. That said, you can minimize the potential for unbalance by making sure that your parallel batteries are connected cross-string, instead of to the terminals of one battery in the parallel bank. By this, I mean make the positive connection to the first battery in the parallel string, and the negative connection to the last battery in the string.? As far as the series connections go, there is only one way to hook it up, but you can minimize the unbalance by ensuring that every battery is of the same type and capacity, and of the same age (I.e. replace all batteries simultaneously). Also, try not to tap off of a lesser number of batteries if you need a lower voltage for some purpose - instead, use a DC-DC converter powered by the entire string.As for charging, see if a recommended charge curve is provided by your battery manufacturer, and source an appropriate charger. The specs you listed are straightforward: maximum 2.4 Volts per cell (Implying 14.4 Volts max for a 12V battery) during charge, with nominal charge voltage 2.35 V per cell (14.1 V on a 12V battery. Once charged, the float voltage must drop to 2.25 - 2.3 Volts per cell (13.5V - 13.8V on a 12V battery).? For a 24V system, you would double these values.The maximum ripple spec has to do with the quality of the rectifier output. A good quality charger will have circuitry to create more pulses per AC cycle and smoothing capacitors on the output side to better approximate a DC output. The ripple is the distance between minimum and maximum peak amplitudes on the "DC" output side.Sean On June 17, 2016 4:53:35 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Hi All?Could anyone give me a hand with a battery charging question.? It sounds simple enough but I seem to be getting conflicting advice all over the place.? ?How do I charge my battery banks correctly??I have just spent a lot of money on a brand new set of batteries and I don't want to charge them incorrectly.?The batteries are WING ESL 55-12.? AGM12v55ah?On the sheet it gives charging instruction.??Float 2.25 - 2.30 VPC @ 25deg CCycling 2.35 @ 25deg CMax 2.4 VPC Max Ripple 0.05C (A)?This seems straight forward enough for a single battery, but I have them configured as a bank which seems to be where the issue lies.?2 pairs in parallel, then the 2 pairs joined in series to give 24v.?I will have to ! chargethem as a bank through the 24v output terminals.?I will add the spec sheet of the batteries.? Hope it gets through. Any advice appreciated.? ?RegardsJames?? Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 17 17:57:40 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 21:57:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved In-Reply-To: <752376990.453255.1466196055426.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <752376990.453255.1466196055426.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <752376990.453255.1466196055426.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1229841459.5236576.1466200661004.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Sounds exciting stuff Hank, can you repeat it so we can see it on video?Looking at the segmented design of your saddle tanks, it would be hardto get trapped air to move out of the top of the center segment without having it's ownventing valve (which I can't see). There might be up to 20 liters of air trapped in each ofthose center segments. That would contribute to making you 40kg light,but at a 100ft when the air compressed to 1/4, you would be 30kg heavy.You could check how much air we are talking about by blocking an endsections drain hole, pouring water in to it until it spills in to the next sectionthen unplug & drain the water in to a bucket & measure how many liters you have.The water in liters would equate to air in liters that would be trapped up the top.Does that make sense?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2016 8:40 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved Today I dove Gamma to 80 feet and the cause of my list became clear. ?First off I extended my bottom vent tubes on the front MBT's and that fixed the list once surfaced. ?But the real problem was quite scary. ?It turns out that I am not evacuating all the air from my MBT's because there is not enough height difference between the vent valve and the tanks. ?I added about 200 lbs more weight than my calculations called for and that compensated for the trapped air. ?Now, I am no math wiz, so I chalked it up to a math error. ? When the sub is on an angle the air does not escape fully. ?I did my dive and vented till the sub was under and let her sink. ?I was not paying attention to the sink rate because I expected it to sink slowly thinking all the air was out of the MBT's. ?I was more concerned about the first time diving after all the modifications I have done. ?I have not done a deep test yet. ?Well I hit the bottom like a ton of bricks and Gamma went into the mud pretty deep I guess, because I had to use up 500 psi of air get it loose from the bottom. ?Once it was free, I was a rocket heading to the surface and the sub did about 4 full rotations on the way up and then It breached. ?Man that was freaky, so now I know the sub is too heavy because the air is trapped in the MBT's. ?? There is an easy solution, I will mount manual vent valves to the tanks and rotate them with linkages from the main vent valve. ?I will leave the existing lines in place to get the air into the tanks but the extra valves will do the venting as well as the original vent valves.Hank Oh ya and my hip waders had another leak. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 17 19:04:18 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 09:04:18 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved In-Reply-To: <1229841459.5236576.1466200661004.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <752376990.453255.1466196055426.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <752376990.453255.1466196055426.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1229841459.5236576.1466200661004.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Wow Hank, that sounds like one epic experience! At least you know the cause though and can do something about it. Cheers, Steve On 18 Jun 2016 8:01 am, "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Sounds exciting stuff Hank, can you repeat it so we can see it on video? > Looking at the segmented design of your saddle tanks, it would be hard > to get trapped air to move out of the top of the center segment without > having it's own > venting valve (which I can't see). There might be up to 20 liters of air > trapped in each of > those center segments. That would contribute to making you 40kg light, > but at a 100ft when the air compressed to 1/4, you would be 30kg heavy. > You could check how much air we are talking about by blocking an end > sections drain hole, pouring water in to it until it spills in to the next > section > then unplug & drain the water in to a bucket & measure how many liters you > have. > The water in liters would equate to air in liters that would be trapped up > the top. > Does that make sense? > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Saturday, June 18, 2016 8:40 AM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved > > Today I dove Gamma to 80 feet and the cause of my list became clear. > First off I extended my bottom vent tubes on the front MBT's and that fixed > the list once surfaced. But the real problem was quite scary. It turns > out that I am not evacuating all the air from my MBT's because there is not > enough height difference between the vent valve and the tanks. I added > about 200 lbs more weight than my calculations called for and that > compensated for the trapped air. Now, I am no math wiz, so I chalked it up > to a math error. When the sub is on an angle the air does not escape > fully. I did my dive and vented till the sub was under and let her sink. > I was not paying attention to the sink rate because I expected it to sink > slowly thinking all the air was out of the MBT's. I was more concerned > about the first time diving after all the modifications I have done. I > have not done a deep test yet. Well I hit the bottom like a ton of bricks > and Gamma went into the mud pretty deep I guess, because I had to use up > 500 psi of air get it loose from the bottom. Once it was free, I was a > rocket heading to the surface and the sub did about 4 full rotations on the > way up and then It breached. Man that was freaky, so now I know the sub is > too heavy because the air is trapped in the MBT's. > There is an easy solution, I will mount manual vent valves to the tanks > and rotate them with linkages from the main vent valve. I will leave the > existing lines in place to get the air into the tanks but the extra valves > will do the venting as well as the original vent valves. > Hank > > Oh ya and my hip waders had another leak. > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 17 19:04:21 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 09:04:21 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved In-Reply-To: References: <752376990.453255.1466196055426.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <752376990.453255.1466196055426.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1229841459.5236576.1466200661004.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Wow Hank, that sounds like one epic experience! At least you know the cause though and can do something about it. Cheers, Steve On 18 Jun 2016 8:01 am, "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Sounds exciting stuff Hank, can you repeat it so we can see it on video? Looking at the segmented design of your saddle tanks, it would be hard to get trapped air to move out of the top of the center segment without having it's own venting valve (which I can't see). There might be up to 20 liters of air trapped in each of those center segments. That would contribute to making you 40kg light, but at a 100ft when the air compressed to 1/4, you would be 30kg heavy. You could check how much air we are talking about by blocking an end sections drain hole, pouring water in to it until it spills in to the next section then unplug & drain the water in to a bucket & measure how many liters you have. The water in liters would equate to air in liters that would be trapped up the top. Does that make sense? Alan ------------------------------ *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> *Sent:* Saturday, June 18, 2016 8:40 AM *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved Today I dove Gamma to 80 feet and the cause of my list became clear. First off I extended my bottom vent tubes on the front MBT's and that fixed the list once surfaced. But the real problem was quite scary. It turns out that I am not evacuating all the air from my MBT's because there is not enough height difference between the vent valve and the tanks. I added about 200 lbs more weight than my calculations called for and that compensated for the trapped air. Now, I am no math wiz, so I chalked it up to a math error. When the sub is on an angle the air does not escape fully. I did my dive and vented till the sub was under and let her sink. I was not paying attention to the sink rate because I expected it to sink slowly thinking all the air was out of the MBT's. I was more concerned about the first time diving after all the modifications I have done. I have not done a deep test yet. Well I hit the bottom like a ton of bricks and Gamma went into the mud pretty deep I guess, because I had to use up 500 psi of air get it loose from the bottom. Once it was free, I was a rocket heading to the surface and the sub did about 4 full rotations on the way up and then It breached. Man that was freaky, so now I know the sub is too heavy because the air is trapped in the MBT's. There is an easy solution, I will mount manual vent valves to the tanks and rotate them with linkages from the main vent valve. I will leave the existing lines in place to get the air into the tanks but the extra valves will do the venting as well as the original vent valves. Hank Oh ya and my hip waders had another leak. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 17 19:41:24 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 23:41:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved In-Reply-To: References: <752376990.453255.1466196055426.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <752376990.453255.1466196055426.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1229841459.5236576.1466200661004.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <890476186.508199.1466206884603.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Steve,I have to admit it was getting?nervous watching my air supply gauge dropping, normally the sub lifts off with a couple of good squirts of air. ?I had 1,000 psi when I sank witch is lots normally, I dropped to 500 psi before anything happened. ?When I was ascending I could hear air coming out of the bottom of the MBT's ?so she was full power UP LOL.Hank On Friday, June 17, 2016 5:04 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Wow Hank, that sounds like one epic experience! At least you know the cause though and can do something about it.Cheers, SteveOn 18 Jun 2016 8:01 am, "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Sounds exciting stuff Hank, can you repeat it so we can see it on video?Looking at the segmented design of your saddle tanks, it would be hardto get trapped air to move out of the top of the center segment without having it's ownventing valve (which I can't see). There might be up to 20 liters of air trapped in each ofthose center segments. That would contribute to making you 40kg light,but at a 100ft when the air compressed to 1/4, you would be 30kg heavy.You could check how much air we are talking about by blocking an endsections drain hole, pouring water in to it until it spills in to the next sectionthen unplug & drain the water in to a bucket & measure how many liters you have.The water in liters would equate to air in liters that would be trapped up the top.Does that make sense?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2016 8:40 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved Today I dove Gamma to 80 feet and the cause of my list became clear.? First off I extended my bottom vent tubes on the front MBT's and that fixed the list once surfaced.? But the real problem was quite scary.? It turns out that I am not evacuating all the air from my MBT's because there is not enough height difference between the vent valve and the tanks.? I added about 200 lbs more weight than my calculations called for and that compensated for the trapped air.? Now, I am no math wiz, so I chalked it up to a math error. ? When the sub is on an angle the air does not escape fully.? I did my dive and vented till the sub was under and let her sink.? I was not paying attention to the sink rate because I expected it to sink slowly thinking all the air was out of the MBT's.? I was more concerned about the first time diving after all the modifications I have done.? I have not done a deep test yet.? Well I hit the bottom like a ton of bricks and Gamma went into the mud pretty deep I guess, because I had to use up 500 psi of air get it loose from the bottom.? Once it was free, I was a rocket heading to the surface and the sub did about 4 full rotations on the way up and then It breached.? Man that was freaky, so now I know the sub is too heavy because the air is trapped in the MBT's. ?? There is an easy solution, I will mount manual vent valves to the tanks and rotate them with linkages from the main vent valve.? I will leave the existing lines in place to get the air into the tanks but the extra valves will do the venting as well as the original vent valves.Hank Oh ya and my hip waders had another leak. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 17 20:00:51 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 10:00:51 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved In-Reply-To: <890476186.508199.1466206884603.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <752376990.453255.1466196055426.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <752376990.453255.1466196055426.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1229841459.5236576.1466200661004.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <890476186.508199.1466206884603.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yeah I was thinking about the 4 full turns on the way up as well!! (In SCUBA diving we would say you definitely did "a polaris"!) On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 9:41 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Steve, > I have to admit it was getting nervous watching my air supply gauge > dropping, normally the sub lifts off with a couple of good squirts of air. > I had 1,000 psi when I sank witch is lots normally, I dropped to 500 psi > before anything happened. When I was ascending I could hear air coming out > of the bottom of the MBT's so she was full power UP LOL. > Hank > > > On Friday, June 17, 2016 5:04 PM, Stephen Fordyce via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Wow Hank, that sounds like one epic experience! At least you know the > cause though and can do something about it. > Cheers, > Steve > On 18 Jun 2016 8:01 am, "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Sounds exciting stuff Hank, can you repeat it so we can see it on video? > Looking at the segmented design of your saddle tanks, it would be hard > to get trapped air to move out of the top of the center segment without > having it's own > venting valve (which I can't see). There might be up to 20 liters of air > trapped in each of > those center segments. That would contribute to making you 40kg light, > but at a 100ft when the air compressed to 1/4, you would be 30kg heavy. > You could check how much air we are talking about by blocking an end > sections drain hole, pouring water in to it until it spills in to the next > section > then unplug & drain the water in to a bucket & measure how many liters you > have. > The water in liters would equate to air in liters that would be trapped up > the top. > Does that make sense? > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Saturday, June 18, 2016 8:40 AM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved > > Today I dove Gamma to 80 feet and the cause of my list became clear. > First off I extended my bottom vent tubes on the front MBT's and that fixed > the list once surfaced. But the real problem was quite scary. It turns > out that I am not evacuating all the air from my MBT's because there is not > enough height difference between the vent valve and the tanks. I added > about 200 lbs more weight than my calculations called for and that > compensated for the trapped air. Now, I am no math wiz, so I chalked it up > to a math error. When the sub is on an angle the air does not escape > fully. I did my dive and vented till the sub was under and let her sink. > I was not paying attention to the sink rate because I expected it to sink > slowly thinking all the air was out of the MBT's. I was more concerned > about the first time diving after all the modifications I have done. I > have not done a deep test yet. Well I hit the bottom like a ton of bricks > and Gamma went into the mud pretty deep I guess, because I had to use up > 500 psi of air get it loose from the bottom. Once it was free, I was a > rocket heading to the surface and the sub did about 4 full rotations on the > way up and then It breached. Man that was freaky, so now I know the sub is > too heavy because the air is trapped in the MBT's. > There is an easy solution, I will mount manual vent valves to the tanks > and rotate them with linkages from the main vent valve. I will leave the > existing lines in place to get the air into the tanks but the extra valves > will do the venting as well as the original vent valves. > Hank > > Oh ya and my hip waders had another leak. > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 17 20:28:05 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 08:28:05 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Batteries In-Reply-To: References: <191d367b-f629-e04c-9960-ece88528a368@archivale.com> Message-ID: <925a9b5e-51ca-2f61-9249-a4e724016c29@archivale.com> Right. The manuals have plenty of information on charging what amounts to a single cell, but little on charging an entire array. Marc On 6/17/2016 11:44 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > ok thanks. Just no replies then! > > On 17 June 2016 at 15:57, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > I got it. > > > On 6/17/2016 10:43 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > did anyone get my post re batteries? > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > -- > Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog > Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog > Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 > Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc > Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 18 00:40:55 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 21:40:55 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved In-Reply-To: <752376990.453255.1466196055426.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <752376990.453255.1466196055426.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <752376990.453255.1466196055426.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000501d1c91b$9ab52dc0$d01f8940$@telus.net> Yikes, Hank. Glad to hear that you got off the bottom. Geeeez. Would it be better to test the trim and buoyancy in 15 feet of water? This would allow less time for Gamma to pick up speed during a crash dive or breach, and allow easier escape if it gets stuck in the mud. Very tricky doing this testing phase solo. There have been several times in history that when a sub breached all the compressed air in the MBT is lost and the sub crashed to the bottom. I am not familiar with your ballast tank venting protocol, but most ballast tanks need to be vented slowly and carefully so that the sub's attitude remains level to allow all tanks to vent through the top vent(s). If the sub starts to go down on one side or in pitch then the ballast must be blown to reset from level start attitude for another attempt. The conical ballast tanks fore and aft were likely much easier to control as only pitch trim was the issue. Just a thought; several smaller ballast tanks, each with its own vent and blow valves, would make things easier to control. The increased complexity would be worth it, just add to the procedures in your check list. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 1:41 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved Today I dove Gamma to 80 feet and the cause of my list became clear. First off I extended my bottom vent tubes on the front MBT's and that fixed the list once surfaced. But the real problem was quite scary. It turns out that I am not evacuating all the air from my MBT's because there is not enough height difference between the vent valve and the tanks. I added about 200 lbs more weight than my calculations called for and that compensated for the trapped air. Now, I am no math wiz, so I chalked it up to a math error. When the sub is on an angle the air does not escape fully. I did my dive and vented till the sub was under and let her sink. I was not paying attention to the sink rate because I expected it to sink slowly thinking all the air was out of the MBT's. I was more concerned about the first time diving after all the modifications I have done. I have not done a deep test yet. Well I hit the bottom like a ton of bricks and Gamma went into the mud pretty deep I guess, because I had to use up 500 psi of air get it loose from the bottom. Once it was free, I was a rocket heading to the surface and the sub did about 4 full rotations on the way up and then It breached. Man that was freaky, so now I know the sub is too heavy because the air is trapped in the MBT's. There is an easy solution, I will mount manual vent valves to the tanks and rotate them with linkages from the main vent valve. I will leave the existing lines in place to get the air into the tanks but the extra valves will do the venting as well as the original vent valves. Hank Oh ya and my hip waders had another leak. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 18 04:58:42 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 01:58:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved Message-ID: <20160618015842.5F3238D9@m0087792.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 18 07:24:42 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 11:24:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved In-Reply-To: <000501d1c91b$9ab52dc0$d01f8940$@telus.net> References: <752376990.453255.1466196055426.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <752376990.453255.1466196055426.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d1c91b$9ab52dc0$d01f8940$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1781114153.627054.1466249082912.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Tim,I did several test starting in 5 feet of water, the problem could not show up until I dove in enough depth to compress the air significantly causing the over weight. ?When I breached it was that significant. ?I would guess I rose 6 inches more than normal. ?If it had open MBT's like a K sub, it could loose the air, but my MBT's are a full enclosed tank with only a 2 inch opening. ? Interestingly and purely by accident, it is impossible to sink at a steep angle because the vents stop venting due to the angle. I open both vents and it automatically ?stops sinking in the back until the front catches up and it stars a slow rocking motion. ? I intend on putting 6 solenoid valves on, 4 in the rear and two in the front, each tank will have individual control. ?It will take little effort because I have spare wires in a penetrator and I can easily weld in 6 nipples to screw the valve on. ?I will want to make covers for the valves to protect them.Hank On Friday, June 17, 2016 10:40 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv0150598607 #yiv0150598607 -- _filtered #yiv0150598607 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0150598607 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0150598607 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv0150598607 #yiv0150598607 p.yiv0150598607MsoNormal, #yiv0150598607 li.yiv0150598607MsoNormal, #yiv0150598607 div.yiv0150598607MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv0150598607 a:link, #yiv0150598607 span.yiv0150598607MsoHyperlink {color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0150598607 a:visited, #yiv0150598607 span.yiv0150598607MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0150598607 span.yiv0150598607EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv0150598607 .yiv0150598607MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv0150598607 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv0150598607 div.yiv0150598607WordSection1 {}#yiv0150598607 Yikes, Hank.Glad to hear that you got off the bottom.? Geeeez.? Would it be better to test the trim and buoyancy in 15 feet of water?? This would allow less time for Gamma to pick up speed during a crash dive or breach, and allow easier escape if it gets stuck in the mud.? Very tricky doing this testing phase solo.? There have been several times in history that when a sub breached all the compressed air in the MBT is lost and the sub crashed to the bottom.I am not familiar with your ballast tank venting protocol, but most ballast tanks need to be vented slowly and carefully so that the sub's attitude remains level to allow all tanks to vent through the top vent(s).? If the sub starts to go down on one side or in pitch then the ballast must be blown to reset from level start attitude for another attempt. The conical ballast tanks fore and aft were likely much easier to control as only pitch trim was the issue. ?Just a thought; several smaller ballast tanks, each with its own vent and blow valves, would make things easier to control.? The increased complexity would be worth it, just add to the procedures in your check list. ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 1:41 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved ?Today I dove Gamma to 80 feet and the cause of my list became clear. ?First off I extended my bottom vent tubes on the front MBT's and that fixed the list once surfaced. ?But the real problem was quite scary. ?It turns out that I am not evacuating all the air from my MBT's because there is not enough height difference between the vent valve and the tanks. ?I added about 200 lbs more weight than my calculations called for and that compensated for the trapped air. ?Now, I am no math wiz, so I chalked it up to a math error. ? When the sub is on an angle the air does not escape fully. ?I did my dive and vented till the sub was under and let her sink. ?I was not paying attention to the sink rate because I expected it to sink slowly thinking all the air was out of the MBT's. ?I was more concerned about the first time diving after all the modifications I have done. ?I have not done a deep test yet. ?Well I hit the bottom like a ton of bricks and Gamma went into the mud pretty deep I guess, because I had to use up 500 psi of air get it loose from the bottom. ?Once it was free, I was a rocket heading to the surface and the sub did about 4 full rotations on the way up and then It breached. ?Man that was freaky, so now I know the sub is too heavy because the air is trapped in the MBT's. ?? There is an easy solution, I will mount manual vent valves to the tanks and rotate them with linkages from the main vent valve. ?I will leave the existing lines in place to get the air into the tanks but the extra valves will do the venting as well as the original vent valves.Hank ?Oh ya and my hip waders had another leak. ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 18 07:31:00 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 11:31:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved In-Reply-To: <20160618015842.5F3238D9@m0087792.ppops.net> References: <20160618015842.5F3238D9@m0087792.ppops.net> Message-ID: <41800785.605888.1466249460125.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Brian,The sub was spinning like when a helicopter loses its tail rotor. ?It seemed pretty fast also, I am guessing four revolutions but I was't counting. ?I have never experienced that, it was very weird. ?Its funny though because in the few seconds it took to surface I said to myself "I wonder if this is what Alec was talking about" ?because he had an issue with Snoopy rotating but under different circumstances. ?Hank On Saturday, June 18, 2016 2:58 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? When you say you did " 4 full rotations"? Do you mean rocking from one side the other on the way up??? What maximum angle from center do you estimate you were swinging?? If I'm understanding you right.?That extra air was no doubt compressing on the way down , making you accelerate.?Brian?? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 20:40:55 +0000 (UTC) Today I dove Gamma to 80 feet and the cause of my list became clear. ?First off I extended my bottom vent tubes on the front MBT's and that fixed the list once surfaced. ?But the real problem was quite scary. ?It turns out that I am not evacuating all the air from my MBT's because there is not enough height difference between the vent valve and the tanks. ?I added about 200 lbs more weight than my calculations called for and that compensated for the trapped air. ?Now, I am no math wiz, so I chalked it up to a math error. ? When the sub is on an angle the air does not escape fully. ?I did my dive and vented till the sub was under and let her sink. ?I was not paying attention to the sink rate because I expected it to sink slowly thinking all the air was out of the MBT's. ?I was more concerned about the first time diving after all the modifications I have done. ?I have not done a deep test yet. ?Well I hit the bottom like a ton of bricks and Gamma went into the mud pretty deep I guess, because I had to use up 500 psi of air get it loose from the bottom. ?Once it was free, I was a rocket heading to the surface and the sub did about 4 full rotations on the way up and then It breached. ?Man that was freaky, so now I know the sub is too heavy because the air is trapped in the MBT's. ?? There is an easy solution, I will mount manual vent valves to the tanks and rotate them with linkages from the main vent valve. ?I will leave the existing lines in place to get the air into the tanks but the extra valves will do the venting as well as the original vent valves.Hank Oh ya and my hip waders had another leak. _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 18 07:55:46 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 11:55:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved In-Reply-To: <41800785.605888.1466249460125.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160618015842.5F3238D9@m0087792.ppops.net> <41800785.605888.1466249460125.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <285597635.5367640.1466250946135.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,what sort of solenoids are you using? Are they for both filling & venting?I have solenoids for both on my ambient & use?them in salt water, but afterpulling?some apart I wasn't that happy that they would last the distance.I remember Hugh saying he hadn't had much luck finding a descentsolenoid valve to do that job, & he imports & makes valves.I am going to use Vance's pneumatically operated top hat valve design.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2016 11:31 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved Hi Brian,The sub was spinning like when a helicopter loses its tail rotor. ?It seemed pretty fast also, I am guessing four revolutions but I was't counting. ?I have never experienced that, it was very weird. ?Its funny though because in the few seconds it took to surface I said to myself "I wonder if this is what Alec was talking about" ?because he had an issue with Snoopy rotating but under different circumstances. ?Hank On Saturday, June 18, 2016 2:58 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? When you say you did " 4 full rotations"? Do you mean rocking from one side the other on the way up??? What maximum angle from center do you estimate you were swinging?? If I'm understanding you right.?That extra air was no doubt compressing on the way down , making you accelerate.?Brian?? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 20:40:55 +0000 (UTC) Today I dove Gamma to 80 feet and the cause of my list became clear. ?First off I extended my bottom vent tubes on the front MBT's and that fixed the list once surfaced. ?But the real problem was quite scary. ?It turns out that I am not evacuating all the air from my MBT's because there is not enough height difference between the vent valve and the tanks. ?I added about 200 lbs more weight than my calculations called for and that compensated for the trapped air. ?Now, I am no math wiz, so I chalked it up to a math error. ? When the sub is on an angle the air does not escape fully. ?I did my dive and vented till the sub was under and let her sink. ?I was not paying attention to the sink rate because I expected it to sink slowly thinking all the air was out of the MBT's. ?I was more concerned about the first time diving after all the modifications I have done. ?I have not done a deep test yet. ?Well I hit the bottom like a ton of bricks and Gamma went into the mud pretty deep I guess, because I had to use up 500 psi of air get it loose from the bottom. ?Once it was free, I was a rocket heading to the surface and the sub did about 4 full rotations on the way up and then It breached. ?Man that was freaky, so now I know the sub is too heavy because the air is trapped in the MBT's. ?? There is an easy solution, I will mount manual vent valves to the tanks and rotate them with linkages from the main vent valve. ?I will leave the existing lines in place to get the air into the tanks but the extra valves will do the venting as well as the original vent valves.Hank Oh ya and my hip waders had another leak. _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 18 08:21:58 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 12:21:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved In-Reply-To: <285597635.5367640.1466250946135.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160618015842.5F3238D9@m0087792.ppops.net> <41800785.605888.1466249460125.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <285597635.5367640.1466250946135.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1603428433.638139.1466252518135.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I am using air water valves for venting only. ?I have had ?great success with similar on ?my under water log salvage ROV. ?I am in fresh water so not an issue for me. ?I have not seen Vance's design but assume you need an air line to each valve and a means of regulating air pressure to the valve. ?I looked at using air but it was getting complicated. ?I thought ComSub had solenoid valves? No?Hank On Saturday, June 18, 2016 5:58 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,what sort of solenoids are you using? Are they for both filling & venting?I have solenoids for both on my ambient & use?them in salt water, but afterpulling?some apart I wasn't that happy that they would last the distance.I remember Hugh saying he hadn't had much luck finding a descentsolenoid valve to do that job, & he imports & makes valves.I am going to use Vance's pneumatically operated top hat valve design.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2016 11:31 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved Hi Brian,The sub was spinning like when a helicopter loses its tail rotor. ?It seemed pretty fast also, I am guessing four revolutions but I was't counting. ?I have never experienced that, it was very weird. ?Its funny though because in the few seconds it took to surface I said to myself "I wonder if this is what Alec was talking about" ?because he had an issue with Snoopy rotating but under different circumstances. ?Hank On Saturday, June 18, 2016 2:58 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? When you say you did " 4 full rotations"? Do you mean rocking from one side the other on the way up??? What maximum angle from center do you estimate you were swinging?? If I'm understanding you right.?That extra air was no doubt compressing on the way down , making you accelerate.?Brian?? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 20:40:55 +0000 (UTC) Today I dove Gamma to 80 feet and the cause of my list became clear. ?First off I extended my bottom vent tubes on the front MBT's and that fixed the list once surfaced. ?But the real problem was quite scary. ?It turns out that I am not evacuating all the air from my MBT's because there is not enough height difference between the vent valve and the tanks. ?I added about 200 lbs more weight than my calculations called for and that compensated for the trapped air. ?Now, I am no math wiz, so I chalked it up to a math error. ? When the sub is on an angle the air does not escape fully. ?I did my dive and vented till the sub was under and let her sink. ?I was not paying attention to the sink rate because I expected it to sink slowly thinking all the air was out of the MBT's. ?I was more concerned about the first time diving after all the modifications I have done. ?I have not done a deep test yet. ?Well I hit the bottom like a ton of bricks and Gamma went into the mud pretty deep I guess, because I had to use up 500 psi of air get it loose from the bottom. ?Once it was free, I was a rocket heading to the surface and the sub did about 4 full rotations on the way up and then It breached. ?Man that was freaky, so now I know the sub is too heavy because the air is trapped in the MBT's. ?? There is an easy solution, I will mount manual vent valves to the tanks and rotate them with linkages from the main vent valve. ?I will leave the existing lines in place to get the air into the tanks but the extra valves will do the venting as well as the original vent valves.Hank Oh ya and my hip waders had another leak. _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 18 10:15:05 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 14:15:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge References: <392547906.658706.1466259305308.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <392547906.658706.1466259305308.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I am wondering if the amp gauge in Gamma is reading correctly. ?Gamma was a 24v system and I have 36 v going through the amp bar and reading the amps from the original gauge. ?Does the increased voltage impact the amp reading?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 18 11:30:27 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 08:30:27 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved In-Reply-To: <1603428433.638139.1466252518135.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160618015842.5F3238D9@m0087792.ppops.net> <41800785.605888.1466249460125.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <285597635.5367640.1466250946135.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1603428433.638139.1466252518135.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, sounds like quite a ride. Do you think you could have controlled the ascent with your thrusters? Maybe Cliff could write some plc code for rotational control with the use of accelerometers to automatically control the thrusters in such an event. David Colombo On Jun 18, 2016 5:25 AM, "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alan, > I am using air water valves for venting only. I have had great success > with similar on my under water log salvage ROV. I am in fresh water so > not an issue for me. I have not seen Vance's design but assume you need an > air line to each valve and a means of regulating air pressure to the > valve. I looked at using air but it was getting complicated. I thought > ComSub had solenoid valves? No? > Hank > > > On Saturday, June 18, 2016 5:58 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hank, > what sort of solenoids are you using? Are they for both filling & venting? > I have solenoids for both on my ambient & use them in salt water, but after > pulling some apart I wasn't that happy that they would last the distance. > I remember Hugh saying he hadn't had much luck finding a descent > solenoid valve to do that job, & he imports & makes valves. > I am going to use Vance's pneumatically operated top hat valve design. > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Saturday, June 18, 2016 11:31 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved > > Hi Brian, > The sub was spinning like when a helicopter loses its tail rotor. It > seemed pretty fast also, I am guessing four revolutions but I was't > counting. I have never experienced that, it was very weird. Its funny > though because in the few seconds it took to surface I said to myself "I > wonder if this is what Alec was talking about" because he had an issue > with Snoopy rotating but under different circumstances. > Hank > > > On Saturday, June 18, 2016 2:58 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hank, When you say you did " 4 full rotations" Do you mean rocking from > one side the other on the way up? What maximum angle from center do you > estimate you were swinging? If I'm understanding you right. > > That extra air was no doubt compressing on the way down , making you > accelerate. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved > Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 20:40:55 +0000 (UTC) > > Today I dove Gamma to 80 feet and the cause of my list became clear. > First off I extended my bottom vent tubes on the front MBT's and that fixed > the list once surfaced. But the real problem was quite scary. It turns > out that I am not evacuating all the air from my MBT's because there is not > enough height difference between the vent valve and the tanks. I added > about 200 lbs more weight than my calculations called for and that > compensated for the trapped air. Now, I am no math wiz, so I chalked it up > to a math error. When the sub is on an angle the air does not escape > fully. I did my dive and vented till the sub was under and let her sink. > I was not paying attention to the sink rate because I expected it to sink > slowly thinking all the air was out of the MBT's. I was more concerned > about the first time diving after all the modifications I have done. I > have not done a deep test yet. Well I hit the bottom like a ton of bricks > and Gamma went into the mud pretty deep I guess, because I had to use up > 500 psi of air get it loose from the bottom. Once it was free, I was a > rocket heading to the surface and the sub did about 4 full rotations on the > way up and then It breached. Man that was freaky, so now I know the sub is > too heavy because the air is trapped in the MBT's. > There is an easy solution, I will mount manual vent valves to the tanks > and rotate them with linkages from the main vent valve. I will leave the > existing lines in place to get the air into the tanks but the extra valves > will do the venting as well as the original vent valves. > Hank > > Oh ya and my hip waders had another leak. > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 18 13:01:45 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 17:01:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved In-Reply-To: References: <20160618015842.5F3238D9@m0087792.ppops.net> <41800785.605888.1466249460125.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <285597635.5367640.1466250946135.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1603428433.638139.1466252518135.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <433365903.688659.1466269305642.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi David,My thrusters would not have the power to stop that assent. ?Maybe DW thrusters could do it. ?I will fix the problem and it won't happen again. ?It is?dangerous to dive so heavy because the drop weight may not be heavy enough to surface the sub if out of air. ?Oh wait a minute,, I have an?escape ?vehicle with a vertical orientation stability bladder ;-) ;-) ?Hank On Saturday, June 18, 2016 9:30 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, sounds like quite a ride. Do you think you could have controlled the ascent with your thrusters? Maybe Cliff could write some plc code for rotational control with the use of accelerometers to automatically control the thrusters in such an event. David ColomboOn Jun 18, 2016 5:25 AM, "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Alan,I am using air water valves for venting only.? I have had ?great success with similar on ?my under water log salvage ROV.? I am in fresh water so not an issue for me.? I have not seen Vance's design but assume you need an air line to each valve and a means of regulating air pressure to the valve.? I looked at using air but it was getting complicated.? I thought ComSub had solenoid valves? No?Hank On Saturday, June 18, 2016 5:58 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,what sort of solenoids are you using? Are they for both filling & venting?I have solenoids for both on my ambient & use?them in salt water, but afterpulling?some apart I wasn't that happy that they would last the distance.I remember Hugh saying he hadn't had much luck finding a descentsolenoid valve to do that job, & he imports & makes valves.I am going to use Vance's pneumatically operated top hat valve design.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2016 11:31 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved Hi Brian,The sub was spinning like when a helicopter loses its tail rotor.? It seemed pretty fast also, I am guessing four revolutions but I was't counting.? I have never experienced that, it was very weird.? Its funny though because in the few seconds it took to surface I said to myself "I wonder if this is what Alec was talking about" ?because he had an issue with Snoopy rotating but under different circumstances. ?Hank On Saturday, June 18, 2016 2:58 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? When you say you did " 4 full rotations"? Do you mean rocking from one side the other on the way up??? What maximum angle from center do you estimate you were swinging?? If I'm understanding you right.?That extra air was no doubt compressing on the way down , making you accelerate.?Brian?? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 20:40:55 +0000 (UTC) Today I dove Gamma to 80 feet and the cause of my list became clear.? First off I extended my bottom vent tubes on the front MBT's and that fixed the list once surfaced.? But the real problem was quite scary.? It turns out that I am not evacuating all the air from my MBT's because there is not enough height difference between the vent valve and the tanks.? I added about 200 lbs more weight than my calculations called for and that compensated for the trapped air.? Now, I am no math wiz, so I chalked it up to a math error. ? When the sub is on an angle the air does not escape fully.? I did my dive and vented till the sub was under and let her sink.? I was not paying attention to the sink rate because I expected it to sink slowly thinking all the air was out of the MBT's.? I was more concerned about the first time diving after all the modifications I have done.? I have not done a deep test yet.? Well I hit the bottom like a ton of bricks and Gamma went into the mud pretty deep I guess, because I had to use up 500 psi of air get it loose from the bottom.? Once it was free, I was a rocket heading to the surface and the sub did about 4 full rotations on the way up and then It breached.? Man that was freaky, so now I know the sub is too heavy because the air is trapped in the MBT's. ?? There is an easy solution, I will mount manual vent valves to the tanks and rotate them with linkages from the main vent valve.? I will leave the existing lines in place to get the air into the tanks but the extra valves will do the venting as well as the original vent valves.Hank Oh ya and my hip waders had another leak. _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 18 17:23:01 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 21:23:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge In-Reply-To: <392547906.658706.1466259305308.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <392547906.658706.1466259305308.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <392547906.658706.1466259305308.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <93458125.5535748.1466284982007.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,I have a couple of those external shunts & there is only a maximum amp rating printed on them.The voltage can vary depending on the state of charge anyway.What are you drawing at full power? Are the motors geared?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2016 2:15 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge I am wondering if the amp gauge in Gamma is reading correctly. ?Gamma was a 24v system and I have 36 v going through the amp bar and reading the amps from the original gauge. ?Does the increased voltage impact the amp reading?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 18 17:35:55 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 21:35:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge In-Reply-To: <392547906.658706.1466259305308.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <392547906.658706.1466259305308.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <392547906.658706.1466259305308.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <581140537.5743507.1466285755165.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,you could try running another device through your shunt that is small enough to check with a multi meter, & see if the resultsfrom the multi meter & the shunt meter are similar.This is a simple video on wiring up a shunt to a meter if neededAlanhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MGed7WKwAA From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2016 2:15 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge I am wondering if the amp gauge in Gamma is reading correctly. ?Gamma was a 24v system and I have 36 v going through the amp bar and reading the amps from the original gauge. ?Does the increased voltage impact the amp reading?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 18 17:36:19 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 21:36:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge In-Reply-To: <93458125.5535748.1466284982007.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <392547906.658706.1466259305308.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <392547906.658706.1466259305308.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <93458125.5535748.1466284982007.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1189777190.746935.1466285779825.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,The amp rating is 100a ?I am drawing 14a with both motors running. ?They are not gear head motors. ?Does the voltage matter? ?Hank On Saturday, June 18, 2016 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I have a couple of those external shunts & there is only a maximum amp rating printed on them.The voltage can vary depending on the state of charge anyway.What are you drawing at full power? Are the motors geared?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2016 2:15 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge I am wondering if the amp gauge in Gamma is reading correctly. ?Gamma was a 24v system and I have 36 v going through the amp bar and reading the amps from the original gauge. ?Does the increased voltage impact the amp reading?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 18 18:08:54 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 22:08:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge In-Reply-To: <1189777190.746935.1466285779825.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <392547906.658706.1466259305308.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <392547906.658706.1466259305308.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <93458125.5535748.1466284982007.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1189777190.746935.1466285779825.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1971125074.5603882.1466287734350.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,no the voltage won't matter. The meter reads the voltage drop across the shunt.So at 7 amps per?motor that's 250W each. What is the motor rating in watts?Are they the original propellers? Am thinking that if that is the correct amp reading& the motors are rated a lot more than 250W, then you could go with a bigger orhigher pitched propeller to put?a higher?load on. Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2016 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge Alan,The amp rating is 100a ?I am drawing 14a with both motors running. ?They are not gear head motors. ?Does the voltage matter? ?Hank On Saturday, June 18, 2016 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I have a couple of those external shunts & there is only a maximum amp rating printed on them.The voltage can vary depending on the state of charge anyway.What are you drawing at full power? Are the motors geared?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2016 2:15 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge I am wondering if the amp gauge in Gamma is reading correctly. ?Gamma was a 24v system and I have 36 v going through the amp bar and reading the amps from the original gauge. ?Does the increased voltage impact the amp reading?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 18 18:48:09 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 22:48:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge In-Reply-To: <1971125074.5603882.1466287734350.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <392547906.658706.1466259305308.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <392547906.658706.1466259305308.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <93458125.5535748.1466284982007.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1189777190.746935.1466285779825.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1971125074.5603882.1466287734350.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <234408799.807188.1466290089121.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,There is some mystery with the motors, we think they are 36v but the amp draw is to low. ? I think I will bump it to 48 volts on my next dive. ?They could use a bit more power i think. I tested them at 48v in the lake here at home and they seemed happy and very?powerful to hold onto by hand.Hank On Saturday, June 18, 2016 4:12 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,no the voltage won't matter. The meter reads the voltage drop across the shunt.So at 7 amps per?motor that's 250W each. What is the motor rating in watts?Are they the original propellers? Am thinking that if that is the correct amp reading& the motors are rated a lot more than 250W, then you could go with a bigger orhigher pitched propeller to put?a higher?load on. Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2016 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge Alan,The amp rating is 100a ?I am drawing 14a with both motors running. ?They are not gear head motors. ?Does the voltage matter? ?Hank On Saturday, June 18, 2016 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I have a couple of those external shunts & there is only a maximum amp rating printed on them.The voltage can vary depending on the state of charge anyway.What are you drawing at full power? Are the motors geared?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2016 2:15 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge I am wondering if the amp gauge in Gamma is reading correctly. ?Gamma was a 24v system and I have 36 v going through the amp bar and reading the amps from the original gauge. ?Does the increased voltage impact the amp reading?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 18 19:53:14 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 23:53:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge In-Reply-To: <234408799.807188.1466290089121.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <392547906.658706.1466259305308.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <392547906.658706.1466259305308.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <93458125.5535748.1466284982007.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1189777190.746935.1466285779825.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1971125074.5603882.1466287734350.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <234408799.807188.1466290089121.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1905929766.5540960.1466293994530.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,the amps are proportional to the load. If the low amp draw iscorrect then a higher pitched or bigger prop would be the solution.Cliff has amp draw specs on the 101. If your motor is of a similarsize maybe you could aim at his amp draw rate! Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2016 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge Alan,There is some mystery with the motors, we think they are 36v but the amp draw is to low. ? I think I will bump it to 48 volts on my next dive. ?They could use a bit more power i think. I tested them at 48v in the lake here at home and they seemed happy and very?powerful to hold onto by hand.Hank On Saturday, June 18, 2016 4:12 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,no the voltage won't matter. The meter reads the voltage drop across the shunt.So at 7 amps per?motor that's 250W each. What is the motor rating in watts?Are they the original propellers? Am thinking that if that is the correct amp reading& the motors are rated a lot more than 250W, then you could go with a bigger orhigher pitched propeller to put?a higher?load on. Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2016 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge Alan,The amp rating is 100a ?I am drawing 14a with both motors running. ?They are not gear head motors. ?Does the voltage matter? ?Hank On Saturday, June 18, 2016 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I have a couple of those external shunts & there is only a maximum amp rating printed on them.The voltage can vary depending on the state of charge anyway.What are you drawing at full power? Are the motors geared?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2016 2:15 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge I am wondering if the amp gauge in Gamma is reading correctly. ?Gamma was a 24v system and I have 36 v going through the amp bar and reading the amps from the original gauge. ?Does the increased voltage impact the amp reading?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 18 20:12:31 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 00:12:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge In-Reply-To: <1905929766.5540960.1466293994530.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <392547906.658706.1466259305308.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <392547906.658706.1466259305308.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <93458125.5535748.1466284982007.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1189777190.746935.1466285779825.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1971125074.5603882.1466287734350.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <234408799.807188.1466290089121.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1905929766.5540960.1466293994530.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1690128317.786078.1466295151187.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,If I increase the voltage, I will increase the rpm that should in turn increase the load.No? Yes?Hank On Saturday, June 18, 2016 5:53 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,the amps are proportional to the load. If the low amp draw iscorrect then a higher pitched or bigger prop would be the solution.Cliff has amp draw specs on the 101. If your motor is of a similarsize maybe you could aim at his amp draw rate! Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2016 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge Alan,There is some mystery with the motors, we think they are 36v but the amp draw is to low. ? I think I will bump it to 48 volts on my next dive. ?They could use a bit more power i think. I tested them at 48v in the lake here at home and they seemed happy and very?powerful to hold onto by hand.Hank On Saturday, June 18, 2016 4:12 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,no the voltage won't matter. The meter reads the voltage drop across the shunt.So at 7 amps per?motor that's 250W each. What is the motor rating in watts?Are they the original propellers? Am thinking that if that is the correct amp reading& the motors are rated a lot more than 250W, then you could go with a bigger orhigher pitched propeller to put?a higher?load on. Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2016 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge Alan,The amp rating is 100a ?I am drawing 14a with both motors running. ?They are not gear head motors. ?Does the voltage matter? ?Hank On Saturday, June 18, 2016 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I have a couple of those external shunts & there is only a maximum amp rating printed on them.The voltage can vary depending on the state of charge anyway.What are you drawing at full power? Are the motors geared?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2016 2:15 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge I am wondering if the amp gauge in Gamma is reading correctly. ?Gamma was a 24v system and I have 36 v going through the amp bar and reading the amps from the original gauge. ?Does the increased voltage impact the amp reading?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 18 20:45:37 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 17:45:37 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved In-Reply-To: <433365903.688659.1466269305642.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160618015842.5F3238D9@m0087792.ppops.net> <41800785.605888.1466249460125.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <285597635.5367640.1466250946135.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1603428433.638139.1466252518135.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <433365903.688659.1466269305642.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I was thinking it might be to early in the dive season to test out your escape pod. For that event you defiantly need video!! On Jun 18, 2016 10:06 AM, "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi David, > My thrusters would not have the power to stop that assent. Maybe DW > thrusters could do it. I will fix the problem and it won't happen again. > It is dangerous to dive so heavy because the drop weight may not be heavy > enough to surface the sub if out of air. Oh wait a minute,, I have > an escape vehicle with a vertical orientation stability bladder ;-) ;-) > Hank > > > On Saturday, June 18, 2016 9:30 AM, David Colombo via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, sounds like quite a ride. Do you think you could have controlled the > ascent with your thrusters? Maybe Cliff could write some plc code for > rotational control with the use of accelerometers to automatically control > the thrusters in such an event. > David Colombo > On Jun 18, 2016 5:25 AM, "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > I am using air water valves for venting only. I have had great success > with similar on my under water log salvage ROV. I am in fresh water so > not an issue for me. I have not seen Vance's design but assume you need an > air line to each valve and a means of regulating air pressure to the > valve. I looked at using air but it was getting complicated. I thought > ComSub had solenoid valves? No? > Hank > > > On Saturday, June 18, 2016 5:58 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hank, > what sort of solenoids are you using? Are they for both filling & venting? > I have solenoids for both on my ambient & use them in salt water, but after > pulling some apart I wasn't that happy that they would last the distance. > I remember Hugh saying he hadn't had much luck finding a descent > solenoid valve to do that job, & he imports & makes valves. > I am going to use Vance's pneumatically operated top hat valve design. > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Saturday, June 18, 2016 11:31 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved > > Hi Brian, > The sub was spinning like when a helicopter loses its tail rotor. It > seemed pretty fast also, I am guessing four revolutions but I was't > counting. I have never experienced that, it was very weird. Its funny > though because in the few seconds it took to surface I said to myself "I > wonder if this is what Alec was talking about" because he had an issue > with Snoopy rotating but under different circumstances. > Hank > > > On Saturday, June 18, 2016 2:58 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hank, When you say you did " 4 full rotations" Do you mean rocking from > one side the other on the way up? What maximum angle from center do you > estimate you were swinging? If I'm understanding you right. > > That extra air was no doubt compressing on the way down , making you > accelerate. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved > Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 20:40:55 +0000 (UTC) > > Today I dove Gamma to 80 feet and the cause of my list became clear. > First off I extended my bottom vent tubes on the front MBT's and that fixed > the list once surfaced. But the real problem was quite scary. It turns > out that I am not evacuating all the air from my MBT's because there is not > enough height difference between the vent valve and the tanks. I added > about 200 lbs more weight than my calculations called for and that > compensated for the trapped air. Now, I am no math wiz, so I chalked it up > to a math error. When the sub is on an angle the air does not escape > fully. I did my dive and vented till the sub was under and let her sink. > I was not paying attention to the sink rate because I expected it to sink > slowly thinking all the air was out of the MBT's. I was more concerned > about the first time diving after all the modifications I have done. I > have not done a deep test yet. Well I hit the bottom like a ton of bricks > and Gamma went into the mud pretty deep I guess, because I had to use up > 500 psi of air get it loose from the bottom. Once it was free, I was a > rocket heading to the surface and the sub did about 4 full rotations on the > way up and then It breached. Man that was freaky, so now I know the sub is > too heavy because the air is trapped in the MBT's. > There is an easy solution, I will mount manual vent valves to the tanks > and rotate them with linkages from the main vent valve. I will leave the > existing lines in place to get the air into the tanks but the extra valves > will do the venting as well as the original vent valves. > Hank > > Oh ya and my hip waders had another leak. > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 18 21:43:11 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 01:43:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved In-Reply-To: References: <20160618015842.5F3238D9@m0087792.ppops.net> <41800785.605888.1466249460125.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <285597635.5367640.1466250946135.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1603428433.638139.1466252518135.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <433365903.688659.1466269305642.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1555186579.802050.1466300591698.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> David, agreed, I will take video if I try it out.Hank On Saturday, June 18, 2016 6:45 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I was thinking it might be to early in the dive season to test out your escape pod. For that event you defiantly need video!!On Jun 18, 2016 10:06 AM, "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Hi David,My thrusters would not have the power to stop that assent.? Maybe DW thrusters could do it.? I will fix the problem and it won't happen again.? It is?dangerous to dive so heavy because the drop weight may not be heavy enough to surface the sub if out of air.? Oh wait a minute,, I have an?escape ?vehicle with a vertical orientation stability bladder ;-) ;-) ?Hank On Saturday, June 18, 2016 9:30 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, sounds like quite a ride. Do you think you could have controlled the ascent with your thrusters? Maybe Cliff could write some plc code for rotational control with the use of accelerometers to automatically control the thrusters in such an event. David ColomboOn Jun 18, 2016 5:25 AM, "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Alan,I am using air water valves for venting only.? I have had ?great success with similar on ?my under water log salvage ROV.? I am in fresh water so not an issue for me.? I have not seen Vance's design but assume you need an air line to each valve and a means of regulating air pressure to the valve.? I looked at using air but it was getting complicated.? I thought ComSub had solenoid valves? No?Hank On Saturday, June 18, 2016 5:58 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,what sort of solenoids are you using? Are they for both filling & venting?I have solenoids for both on my ambient & use?them in salt water, but afterpulling?some apart I wasn't that happy that they would last the distance.I remember Hugh saying he hadn't had much luck finding a descentsolenoid valve to do that job, & he imports & makes valves.I am going to use Vance's pneumatically operated top hat valve design.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2016 11:31 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved Hi Brian,The sub was spinning like when a helicopter loses its tail rotor.? It seemed pretty fast also, I am guessing four revolutions but I was't counting.? I have never experienced that, it was very weird.? Its funny though because in the few seconds it took to surface I said to myself "I wonder if this is what Alec was talking about" ?because he had an issue with Snoopy rotating but under different circumstances. ?Hank On Saturday, June 18, 2016 2:58 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? When you say you did " 4 full rotations"? Do you mean rocking from one side the other on the way up??? What maximum angle from center do you estimate you were swinging?? If I'm understanding you right.?That extra air was no doubt compressing on the way down , making you accelerate.?Brian?? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 20:40:55 +0000 (UTC) Today I dove Gamma to 80 feet and the cause of my list became clear.? First off I extended my bottom vent tubes on the front MBT's and that fixed the list once surfaced.? But the real problem was quite scary.? It turns out that I am not evacuating all the air from my MBT's because there is not enough height difference between the vent valve and the tanks.? I added about 200 lbs more weight than my calculations called for and that compensated for the trapped air.? Now, I am no math wiz, so I chalked it up to a math error. ? When the sub is on an angle the air does not escape fully.? I did my dive and vented till the sub was under and let her sink.? I was not paying attention to the sink rate because I expected it to sink slowly thinking all the air was out of the MBT's.? I was more concerned about the first time diving after all the modifications I have done.? I have not done a deep test yet.? Well I hit the bottom like a ton of bricks and Gamma went into the mud pretty deep I guess, because I had to use up 500 psi of air get it loose from the bottom.? Once it was free, I was a rocket heading to the surface and the sub did about 4 full rotations on the way up and then It breached.? Man that was freaky, so now I know the sub is too heavy because the air is trapped in the MBT's. ?? There is an easy solution, I will mount manual vent valves to the tanks and rotate them with linkages from the main vent valve.? I will leave the existing lines in place to get the air into the tanks but the extra valves will do the venting as well as the original vent valves.Hank Oh ya and my hip waders had another leak. _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 18 22:32:09 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 19:32:09 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Listing solved Message-ID: <20160618193209.5F3246CF@m0087792.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 19 05:46:13 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 09:46:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge In-Reply-To: <1690128317.786078.1466295151187.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <392547906.658706.1466259305308.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <392547906.658706.1466259305308.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <93458125.5535748.1466284982007.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1189777190.746935.1466285779825.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1971125074.5603882.1466287734350.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <234408799.807188.1466290089121.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1905929766.5540960.1466293994530.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1690128317.786078.1466295151187.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1534500281.5860283.1466329573610.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,Yes & No.If you have a constant load & you reduce the voltage, the amps willincrease. So increasing the voltage will reduce the amps on a constant load.It gets complicated because?you are pushing your submarine, & there is drag to overcome.I have heard that you quadruple your energy consumption to double your speed underwater; so that would?imply that if you?were doing a certain speed at?12V & 10 Ampsthen you would have to be at 24V &?20 Amps or something like that, to double your speed.??If it were my motor & I couldn't find out what voltage or maximum amps it should be working off, I would be looking at other similar sized motors for a similar application with similar resistance in the windings, & using that as a starting point for tests. I would surmise that other motorsthat are enclosed in cans, like the minn kota, would have heavy windings & be de-rated because of the possible excessive heat build up in their worst case scenario. In your cold lakes you couldrun a motor at higher amps than if you were running it in a shallow lake in Florida.It would be good to have a heat sensor in them. Some thrusters come standard with heat sensors.So having estimated what you think the motor rating is, if your motor is not drawing enough ampsat full voltage, then you could try changing the prop.Another thing you could look at that might give you a clue, is the no load maximum rpm you aregetting at the varying voltages, & compare that with other motors.I am not an expert on these things (yet) but know it can be complex, & the best results are from testing&?seeing where you get the best efficiency for the speed you want.Cliff may possibly like to weigh in with his findings from his Minn kota & variable pitch prop tests.Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2016 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge Alan,If I increase the voltage, I will increase the rpm that should in turn increase the load.No? Yes?Hank On Saturday, June 18, 2016 5:53 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,the amps are proportional to the load. If the low amp draw iscorrect then a higher pitched or bigger prop would be the solution.Cliff has amp draw specs on the 101. If your motor is of a similarsize maybe you could aim at his amp draw rate! Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2016 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge Alan,There is some mystery with the motors, we think they are 36v but the amp draw is to low. ? I think I will bump it to 48 volts on my next dive. ?They could use a bit more power i think. I tested them at 48v in the lake here at home and they seemed happy and very?powerful to hold onto by hand.Hank On Saturday, June 18, 2016 4:12 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,no the voltage won't matter. The meter reads the voltage drop across the shunt.So at 7 amps per?motor that's 250W each. What is the motor rating in watts?Are they the original propellers? Am thinking that if that is the correct amp reading& the motors are rated a lot more than 250W, then you could go with a bigger orhigher pitched propeller to put?a higher?load on. Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2016 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge Alan,The amp rating is 100a ?I am drawing 14a with both motors running. ?They are not gear head motors. ?Does the voltage matter? ?Hank On Saturday, June 18, 2016 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I have a couple of those external shunts & there is only a maximum amp rating printed on them.The voltage can vary depending on the state of charge anyway.What are you drawing at full power? Are the motors geared?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2016 2:15 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge I am wondering if the amp gauge in Gamma is reading correctly. ?Gamma was a 24v system and I have 36 v going through the amp bar and reading the amps from the original gauge. ?Does the increased voltage impact the amp reading?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 19 07:35:02 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 11:35:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge In-Reply-To: <1534500281.5860283.1466329573610.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <392547906.658706.1466259305308.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <392547906.658706.1466259305308.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <93458125.5535748.1466284982007.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1189777190.746935.1466285779825.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1971125074.5603882.1466287734350.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <234408799.807188.1466290089121.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1905929766.5540960.1466293994530.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1690128317.786078.1466295151187.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1534500281.5860283.1466329573610.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1544744464.858052.1466336102630.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> AlanThanks' for the input, I will try running them at 48 volts and see how they react. ?They work fine the way they are but I feel there is a little more in?them that I am not utilizing. ?I enjoy this stuff, figuring out what works best.Hank On Sunday, June 19, 2016 3:46 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,Yes & No.If you have a constant load & you reduce the voltage, the amps willincrease. So increasing the voltage will reduce the amps on a constant load.It gets complicated because?you are pushing your submarine, & there is drag to overcome.I have heard that you quadruple your energy consumption to double your speed underwater; so that would?imply that if you?were doing a certain speed at?12V & 10 Ampsthen you would have to be at 24V &?20 Amps or something like that, to double your speed.??If it were my motor & I couldn't find out what voltage or maximum amps it should be working off, I would be looking at other similar sized motors for a similar application with similar resistance in the windings, & using that as a starting point for tests. I would surmise that other motorsthat are enclosed in cans, like the minn kota, would have heavy windings & be de-rated because of the possible excessive heat build up in their worst case scenario. In your cold lakes you couldrun a motor at higher amps than if you were running it in a shallow lake in Florida.It would be good to have a heat sensor in them. Some thrusters come standard with heat sensors.So having estimated what you think the motor rating is, if your motor is not drawing enough ampsat full voltage, then you could try changing the prop.Another thing you could look at that might give you a clue, is the no load maximum rpm you aregetting at the varying voltages, & compare that with other motors.I am not an expert on these things (yet) but know it can be complex, & the best results are from testing&?seeing where you get the best efficiency for the speed you want.Cliff may possibly like to weigh in with his findings from his Minn kota & variable pitch prop tests.Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2016 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge Alan,If I increase the voltage, I will increase the rpm that should in turn increase the load.No? Yes?Hank On Saturday, June 18, 2016 5:53 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,the amps are proportional to the load. If the low amp draw iscorrect then a higher pitched or bigger prop would be the solution.Cliff has amp draw specs on the 101. If your motor is of a similarsize maybe you could aim at his amp draw rate! Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2016 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge Alan,There is some mystery with the motors, we think they are 36v but the amp draw is to low. ? I think I will bump it to 48 volts on my next dive. ?They could use a bit more power i think. I tested them at 48v in the lake here at home and they seemed happy and very?powerful to hold onto by hand.Hank On Saturday, June 18, 2016 4:12 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,no the voltage won't matter. The meter reads the voltage drop across the shunt.So at 7 amps per?motor that's 250W each. What is the motor rating in watts?Are they the original propellers? Am thinking that if that is the correct amp reading& the motors are rated a lot more than 250W, then you could go with a bigger orhigher pitched propeller to put?a higher?load on. Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2016 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge Alan,The amp rating is 100a ?I am drawing 14a with both motors running. ?They are not gear head motors. ?Does the voltage matter? ?Hank On Saturday, June 18, 2016 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I have a couple of those external shunts & there is only a maximum amp rating printed on them.The voltage can vary depending on the state of charge anyway.What are you drawing at full power? Are the motors geared?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2016 2:15 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp gauge I am wondering if the amp gauge in Gamma is reading correctly. ?Gamma was a 24v system and I have 36 v going through the amp bar and reading the amps from the original gauge. ?Does the increased voltage impact the amp reading?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 19 09:44:48 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 09:44:48 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have what I think is a similar setup in Shackleton. There will be 12 batteries in all, with each pod having two series sets of three batteries, and the two three-battery sets being in parallel for 36 volts. As far as I know the "proper" way to charge would be to decouple all the batteries and charge them individually, for which you would use a bunch of charging relays to temporarily undo the battery interconnections, and a multi-output charger. However, with 12 batteries and especially considering all I have is two conductors coming out of the pod, I've concluded the "proper" way just isn't practical for me. I've got a dual output 36 volt charger and am just going to treat each pod as a giant 36 volt battery. If anyone thinks this is a huge no-no that would justify opening up the pods and disconnecting every battery every time I charge, please do speak up! Thanks, Alec On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 10:43 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > did anyone get my post re batteries? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 19 10:26:27 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 14:26:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1217217282.912379.1466346387833.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,I charge two 6v at a time, but I do not uncouple the batteries. ?I have holes drilled in my floor boards so I can connect the charger clamp to the battery terminal. ?It seems to work fine.Hank On Sunday, June 19, 2016 7:44 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have what I think is a similar setup in Shackleton. There will be 12 batteries in all, with each pod having two series sets of three batteries, and the two three-battery sets being in parallel for 36 volts.? As far as I know the "proper" way to charge would be to decouple all the batteries and charge them individually, for which you would use a bunch of charging relays to temporarily undo the battery interconnections, and a multi-output charger. However, with 12 batteries and especially considering all I have is two conductors coming out of the pod, I've concluded the "proper" way just isn't practical for me. I've got a dual output 36 volt charger and am just going to treat each pod as a giant 36 volt battery. If anyone thinks this is a huge no-no that would justify opening up the pods and disconnecting every battery every time I charge, please do speak up! Thanks, Alec On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 10:43 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: did anyone get my post re batteries? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 19 10:59:47 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 08:59:47 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6e8c107a-790c-4e60-90f0-94bce2da7c23@email.android.com> That is fundamentally no different than using a battery at all, which is just a bunch of series-connected cells in a housing. Fancy batteries may have a battery management module with individual cell control, but basic batteries of any type that are higher than cell voltage just rely on cell similarity and minimal resistance connections to prevent cell imbalance. You can approximate this yourself by keeping your interconnects short and huge (if possible, use bus bars instead of cables), and ensuring that all batteries in the string are subject to identical environmental conditions throughout their lifetime. As strings get longer, the risk of cell imbalance increases. As I mentioned in a previous post, you want to connect to opposite ends of your parallel strings, and only ever draw from across the entire series-parallel arrangement at once. Other than that, your only concern is finding or making a charger for the appropriate voltages and currents required for your resultant "battery", and just accepting that it will have somewhat less life than it would if you had cell level control. Sean On June 19, 2016 7:44:48 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >I have what I think is a similar setup in Shackleton. There will be 12 >batteries in all, with each pod having two series sets of three >batteries, >and the two three-battery sets being in parallel for 36 volts. > >As far as I know the "proper" way to charge would be to decouple all >the >batteries and charge them individually, for which you would use a bunch >of >charging relays to temporarily undo the battery interconnections, and a >multi-output charger. However, with 12 batteries and especially >considering >all I have is two conductors coming out of the pod, I've concluded the >"proper" way just isn't practical for me. I've got a dual output 36 >volt >charger and am just going to treat each pod as a giant 36 volt battery. > >If anyone thinks this is a huge no-no that would justify opening up the >pods and disconnecting every battery every time I charge, please do >speak >up! > > >Thanks, > >Alec > >On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 10:43 AM, James Frankland via >Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> did anyone get my post re batteries? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 19 17:53:58 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 17:53:58 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Sean, I'm afraid I didn't get the meaning of "cross string." The other mitigating measures I'm in compliance with, but could you maybe share a little diagram of what you meant by "cross-string"? Many thanks, Alec On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > As far as battery interconnections are concerned, in the absence of a > battery / cell management module, it is next to impossible to ensure that > individual battery voltages stay balanced. That said, you can minimize the > potential for unbalance by making sure that your parallel batteries are > connected cross-string, instead of to the terminals of one battery in the > parallel bank. By this, I mean make the positive connection to the first > battery in the parallel string, and the negative connection to the last > battery in the string. As far as the series connections go, there is only > one way to hook it up, but you can minimize the unbalance by ensuring that > every battery is of the same type and capacity, and of the same age (I.e. > replace all batteries simultaneously). Also, try not to tap off of a lesser > number of batteries if you need a lower voltage for some purpose - instead, > use a DC-DC converter powered by the entire string. > > As for charging, see if a recommended charge curve is provided by your > battery manufacturer, and source an appropriate charger. The specs you > listed are straightforward: maximum 2.4 Volts per cell (Implying 14.4 Volts > max for a 12V battery) during charge, with nominal charge voltage 2.35 V > per cell (14.1 V on a 12V battery. Once charged, the float voltage must > drop to 2.25 - 2.3 Volts per cell (13.5V - 13.8V on a 12V battery). For a > 24V system, you would double these values. > > The maximum ripple spec has to do with the quality of the rectifier > output. A good quality charger will have circuitry to create more pulses > per AC cycle and smoothing capacitors on the output side to better > approximate a DC output. The ripple is the distance between minimum and > maximum peak amplitudes on the "DC" output side. > > Sean > > > On June 17, 2016 4:53:35 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Hi All >> >> Could anyone give me a hand with a battery charging question. It sounds >> simple enough but I seem to be getting conflicting advice all over the >> place. >> >> How do I charge my battery banks correctly? >> >> I have just spent a lot of money on a brand new set of batteries and I >> don't want to charge them incorrectly. >> >> The batteries are WING ESL 55-12. AGM >> 12v >> 55ah >> >> On the sheet it gives charging instruction. >> >> Float 2.25 - 2.30 VPC @ 25deg C >> Cycling 2.35 @ 25deg C >> Max 2.4 VPC Max Ripple 0.05C (A) >> >> This seems straight forward enough for a single battery, but I have them >> configured as a bank which seems to be where the issue lies. >> >> 2 pairs in parallel, then the 2 pairs joined in series to give 24v. >> >> I will have to ! charge them as a bank through the 24v output terminals. >> >> I will add the spec sheet of the batteries. Hope it gets through. >> >> Any advice appreciated. >> >> Regards >> James >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 19 18:56:59 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 16:56:59 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you wire two or more batteries together in parallel by connecting all of the + terminals together and all of the - terminals together (hopefully using bus bars or large and short cables), instead of making your power draw or charging connections to the + and - terminals at one end of the battery string (i.e. at a single battery), you should instead, for example, connect to the + terminal of the first battery in the string, and the - terminal of the last one. Sean On June 19, 2016 3:53:58 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi Sean, > >I'm afraid I didn't get the meaning of "cross string." The other >mitigating >measures I'm in compliance with, but could you maybe share a little >diagram >of what you meant by "cross-string"? > > >Many thanks, > >Alec > >On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> As far as battery interconnections are concerned, in the absence of a >> battery / cell management module, it is next to impossible to ensure >that >> individual battery voltages stay balanced. That said, you can >minimize the >> potential for unbalance by making sure that your parallel batteries >are >> connected cross-string, instead of to the terminals of one battery in >the >> parallel bank. By this, I mean make the positive connection to the >first >> battery in the parallel string, and the negative connection to the >last >> battery in the string. As far as the series connections go, there is >only >> one way to hook it up, but you can minimize the unbalance by ensuring >that >> every battery is of the same type and capacity, and of the same age >(I.e. >> replace all batteries simultaneously). Also, try not to tap off of a >lesser >> number of batteries if you need a lower voltage for some purpose - >instead, >> use a DC-DC converter powered by the entire string. >> >> As for charging, see if a recommended charge curve is provided by >your >> battery manufacturer, and source an appropriate charger. The specs >you >> listed are straightforward: maximum 2.4 Volts per cell (Implying 14.4 >Volts >> max for a 12V battery) during charge, with nominal charge voltage >2.35 V >> per cell (14.1 V on a 12V battery. Once charged, the float voltage >must >> drop to 2.25 - 2.3 Volts per cell (13.5V - 13.8V on a 12V battery). >For a >> 24V system, you would double these values. >> >> The maximum ripple spec has to do with the quality of the rectifier >> output. A good quality charger will have circuitry to create more >pulses >> per AC cycle and smoothing capacitors on the output side to better >> approximate a DC output. The ripple is the distance between minimum >and >> maximum peak amplitudes on the "DC" output side. >> >> Sean >> >> >> On June 17, 2016 4:53:35 AM MDT, James Frankland via >Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >>> >>> Hi All >>> >>> Could anyone give me a hand with a battery charging question. It >sounds >>> simple enough but I seem to be getting conflicting advice all over >the >>> place. >>> >>> How do I charge my battery banks correctly? >>> >>> I have just spent a lot of money on a brand new set of batteries and >I >>> don't want to charge them incorrectly. >>> >>> The batteries are WING ESL 55-12. AGM >>> 12v >>> 55ah >>> >>> On the sheet it gives charging instruction. >>> >>> Float 2.25 - 2.30 VPC @ 25deg C >>> Cycling 2.35 @ 25deg C >>> Max 2.4 VPC Max Ripple 0.05C (A) >>> >>> This seems straight forward enough for a single battery, but I have >them >>> configured as a bank which seems to be where the issue lies. >>> >>> 2 pairs in parallel, then the 2 pairs joined in series to give 24v. >>> >>> I will have to ! charge them as a bank through the 24v output >terminals. >>> >>> I will add the spec sheet of the batteries. Hope it gets through. >>> >>> Any advice appreciated. >>> >>> Regards >>> James >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 20 07:19:41 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 12:19:41 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Guys. I need to absorb this information. A lot to read here. I don't really understand the "cross string" thing either. I will attach this picture of the 2 possible ways of doing it (for my application) and maybe Sean or someone can comment? I currently have the batteries rigged in Config 1, but have been advised (possibly incorrectly) to use config 2. Apparently this is how most high power UPS systems are configured and allows redundancy if 1 pair fails. Any ideas? Thanks James ? On 19 June 2016 at 23:56, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > If you wire two or more batteries together in parallel by connecting all > of the + terminals together and all of the - terminals together (hopefully > using bus bars or large and short cables), instead of making your power > draw or charging connections to the + and - terminals at one end of the > battery string (i.e. at a single battery), you should instead, for example, > connect to the + terminal of the first battery in the string, and the - > terminal of the last one. > > Sean > > > On June 19, 2016 3:53:58 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi Sean, >> >> I'm afraid I didn't get the meaning of "cross string." The other >> mitigating measures I'm in compliance with, but could you maybe share a >> little diagram of what you meant by "cross-string"? >> >> >> Many thanks, >> >> Alec >> >> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> As far as battery interconnections are concerned, in the absence of a >>> battery / cell management module, it is next to impossible to ensure that >>> individual battery voltages stay balanced. That said, you can minimize the >>> potential for un! balance by making sure that your parallel batteries are >>> connected cross-string, instead of to the terminals of one battery in the >>> parallel bank. By this, I mean make the positive connection to the first >>> battery in the parallel string, and the negative connection to the last >>> battery in the string. As far as the series connections go, there is only >>> one way to hook it up, but you can minimize the unbalance by ensuring that >>> every battery is of the same type and capacity, and of the same age (I.e. >>> replace all batteries simultaneously). Also, try not to tap off of a lesser >>> number of batteries if you need a lower voltage for some purpose - instead, >>> use a DC-DC converter powered by the entire string. >>> >>> As for charging, see if a recommended charge curve is provided by your >>> battery manufacturer, and source an appropriate charger. The specs you >>> listed are straightforward: maximum 2.4 Volts per cell (Implying 14.4 Volts >>> max for a 12V battery) during charge, with nominal charge voltage 2.35 V >>> per cell (14.1 V on a 12V battery. Once charged, the float voltage must >>> drop to 2.25 - 2.3 Volts per cell (13.5V - 13.8V on a 12V battery). For a >>> 24V system, you would double these values. >>> >>> The maximum ripple spec has to do with the quality of the rectifier >>> output. A good quality charger will have circuitry to create more pulses >>> per AC cycle and smoothing capacitors on the output side to better >>> approximate a DC output. The ripple is the distance between minimum and >>> maximum peak amplitudes on the "DC" output side. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>> On June 17, 2016 4:53:35 AM MDT, James Frankland via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi All >>>> >>>> Could anyone give me a hand with a battery charging question. It >>>> sounds simple enough but I seem to be getting conflicting advice all over >>>> the place. >>>> >>>> How do I charge my battery banks correctly? >>>> >>>> I have just spent a lot of money on a brand new set of batteries and I >>>> don't want to charge them incorrectly. >>>> >>>> The batteries are WING ESL 55-12. AGM >>>> 12v >>>> 55ah >>>> >>>> On the sheet it gives charging instruction. >>>> >>>> Float 2.25 - 2.30 VPC @ 25deg C >>>> Cycling 2.35 @ 25deg C >>>> Max 2.4 VPC Max Ripple 0.05C (A) >>>> >>>> This seems straight forward enough for a single battery, but I have >>>> them configured as a bank which seems to be where the issue lies. >>>> >>>> 2 pairs in parallel, then the 2 pairs joined in series to give 24v. >>>> >>>> I will have to ! charge them as a bank through the 24v output terminals. >>>> >>>> I will add the spec sheet of the batteries. Hope it gets through. >>>> >>>> Any advice appreciated. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> James >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Batteries.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66038 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 20 08:26:15 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 12:26:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <191042373.1221111.1466425575793.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> James,I like option two for the reason you mention. My first thought is to have a battery bank switch but this eliminates the need for that, unless you want to isolate one bank for get home?safety.Hank On Monday, June 20, 2016 5:20 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Guys.? I need to absorb this information.? A lot to read here.? ?I don't really understand the "cross string" thing either.? I will attach this picture of the 2 possible ways of doing it (for my application) and maybe Sean or someone can comment??I currently have the batteries rigged in Config 1, but have been advised (possibly incorrectly) to use config 2.? Apparently this is how most high power UPS systems are configured and allows redundancy if 1 pair fails.?Any ideas? ThanksJames? ? On 19 June 2016 at 23:56, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: If you wire two or more batteries together in parallel by connecting all of the + terminals together and all of the - terminals together (hopefully using bus bars or large and short cables), instead of making your power draw or charging connections to the + and - terminals at one end of the battery string (i.e. at a single battery), you should instead, for example, connect to the + terminal of the first battery in the string, and the - terminal of the last one.Sean On June 19, 2016 3:53:58 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Sean, I'm afraid I didn't get the meaning of "cross string." The other mitigating measures I'm in compliance with, but could you maybe share a little diagram of what you meant by "cross-string"?? Many thanks, Alec On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: As far as battery interconnections are concerned, in the absence of a battery / cell management module, it is next to impossible to ensure that individual battery voltages stay balanced. That said, you can minimize the potential for un! balanceby making sure that your parallel batteries are connected cross-string, instead of to the terminals of one battery in the parallel bank. By this, I mean make the positive connection to the first battery in the parallel string, and the negative connection to the last battery in the string.? As far as the series connections go, there is only one way to hook it up, but you can minimize the unbalance by ensuring that every battery is of the same type and capacity, and of the same age (I.e. replace all batteries simultaneously). Also, try not to tap off of a lesser number of batteries if you need a lower voltage for some purpose - instead, use a DC-DC converter powered by the entire string.As for charging, see if a recommended charge curve is provided by your battery manufacturer, and source an appropriate charger. The specs you listed are straightforward: maximum 2.4 Volts per cell (Implying 14.4 Volts max for a 12V battery) during charge, with nominal charge voltage 2.35 V per cell (14.1 V on a 12V battery. Once charged, the float voltage must drop to 2.25 - 2.3 Volts per cell (13.5V - 13.8V on a 12V battery).? For a 24V system, you would double these values.The maximum ripple spec has to do with the quality of the rectifier output. A good quality charger will have circuitry to create more pulses per AC cycle and smoothing capacitors on the output side to better approximate a DC output. The ripple is the distance between minimum and maximum peak amplitudes on the "DC" output side.Sean On June 17, 2016 4:53:35 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Hi All?Could anyone give me a hand with a battery charging question.? It sounds simple enough but I seem to be getting conflicting advice all over the place.? ?How do I charge my battery banks correctly??I have just spent a lot of money on a brand new set of batteries and I don't want to charge them incorrectly.?The batteries are WING ESL 55-12.? AGM12v55ah?On the sheet it gives charging instruction.??Float 2.25 - 2.30 VPC @ 25deg CCycling 2.35 @ 25deg CMax 2.4 VPC Max Ripple 0.05C (A)?This seems straight forward enough for a single battery, but I have them configured as a bank which seems to be where the issue lies.?2 pairs in parallel, then the 2 pairs joined in series to give 24v.?Iwill have to ! chargethem as a bank through the 24v output terminals.?I will add the spec sheet of the batteries.? Hope it gets through. Any advice appreciated.? ?RegardsJames?? Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Batteries.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66038 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 20 08:42:26 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 13:42:26 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery Question In-Reply-To: <191042373.1221111.1466425575793.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <191042373.1221111.1466425575793.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank. I have 2 banks like this. so 8 batteries in total. The pic was only showing the possible configuration of 1 single set. On 20 June 2016 at 13:26, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, > I like option two for the reason you mention. My first thought is to have > a battery bank switch but this eliminates the need for that, unless you > want to isolate one bank for get home safety. > Hank > > > On Monday, June 20, 2016 5:20 AM, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Thanks Guys. I need to absorb this information. A lot to read here. > > I don't really understand the "cross string" thing either. I will attach > this picture of the 2 possible ways of doing it (for my application) and > maybe Sean or someone can comment? > > I currently have the batteries rigged in Config 1, but have been advised > (possibly incorrectly) to use config 2. Apparently this is how most high > power UPS systems are configured and allows redundancy if 1 pair fails. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks > James > > > ? > > On 19 June 2016 at 23:56, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > If you wire two or more batteries together in parallel by connecting all > of the + terminals together and all of the - terminals together (hopefully > using bus bars or large and short cables), instead of making your power > draw or charging connections to the + and - terminals at one end of the > battery string (i.e. at a single battery), you should instead, for example, > connect to the + terminal of the first battery in the string, and the - > terminal of the last one. > Sean > > > On June 19, 2016 3:53:58 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Sean, > > I'm afraid I didn't get the meaning of "cross string." The other > mitigating measures I'm in compliance with, but could you maybe share a > little diagram of what you meant by "cross-string"? > > > Many thanks, > > Alec > > On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > As far as battery interconnections are concerned, in the absence of a > battery / cell management module, it is next to impossible to ensure that > individual battery voltages stay balanced. That said, you can minimize the > potential for un! balance by making sure that your parallel batteries are > connected cross-string, instead of to the terminals of one battery in the > parallel bank. By this, I mean make the positive connection to the first > battery in the parallel string, and the negative connection to the last > battery in the string. As far as the series connections go, there is only > one way to hook it up, but you can minimize the unbalance by ensuring that > every battery is of the same type and capacity, and of the same age (I.e. > replace all batteries simultaneously). Also, try not to tap off of a lesser > number of batteries if you need a lower voltage for some purpose - instead, > use a DC-DC converter powered by the entire string. > As for charging, see if a recommended charge curve is provided by your > battery manufacturer, and source an appropriate charger. The specs you > listed are straightforward: maximum 2.4 Volts per cell (Implying 14.4 Volts > max for a 12V battery) during charge, with nominal charge voltage 2.35 V > per cell (14.1 V on a 12V battery. Once charged, the float voltage must > drop to 2.25 - 2.3 Volts per cell (13.5V - 13.8V on a 12V battery). For a > 24V system, you would double these values. > The maximum ripple spec has to do with the quality of the rectifier > output. A good quality charger will have circuitry to create more pulses > per AC cycle and smoothing capacitors on the output side to better > approximate a DC output. The ripple is the distance between minimum and > maximum peak amplitudes on the "DC" output side. > Sean > > > On June 17, 2016 4:53:35 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Hi All > > Could anyone give me a hand with a battery charging question. It sounds > simple enough but I seem to be getting conflicting advice all over the > place. > > How do I charge my battery banks correctly? > > I have just spent a lot of money on a brand new set of batteries and I > don't want to charge them incorrectly. > > The batteries are WING ESL 55-12. AGM > 12v > 55ah > > On the sheet it gives charging instruction. > > Float 2.25 - 2.30 VPC @ 25deg C > Cycling 2.35 @ 25deg C > Max 2.4 VPC Max Ripple 0.05C (A) > > This seems straight forward enough for a single battery, but I have them > configured as a bank which seems to be where the issue lies. > > 2 pairs in parallel, then the 2 pairs joined in series to give 24v. > > I will have to ! charge them as a bank through the 24v output terminals. > > I will add the spec sheet of the batteries. Hope it gets through. > > Any advice appreciated. > > Regards > James > > > > ------------------------------ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Batteries.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66038 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 20 08:43:02 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 08:43:02 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I was planning to do your #2. Hopefully this is "cross string"? [image: Inline image 1] Thanks, Alec On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 7:19 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Guys. I need to absorb this information. A lot to read here. > > I don't really understand the "cross string" thing either. I will attach > this picture of the 2 possible ways of doing it (for my application) and > maybe Sean or someone can comment? > > I currently have the batteries rigged in Config 1, but have been advised > (possibly incorrectly) to use config 2. Apparently this is how most high > power UPS systems are configured and allows redundancy if 1 pair fails. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks > James > > > ? > > On 19 June 2016 at 23:56, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> If you wire two or more batteries together in parallel by connecting all >> of the + terminals together and all of the - terminals together (hopefully >> using bus bars or large and short cables), instead of making your power >> draw or charging connections to the + and - terminals at one end of the >> battery string (i.e. at a single battery), you should instead, for example, >> connect to the + terminal of the first battery in the string, and the - >> terminal of the last one. >> >> Sean >> >> >> On June 19, 2016 3:53:58 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Sean, >>> >>> I'm afraid I didn't get the meaning of "cross string." The other >>> mitigating measures I'm in compliance with, but could you maybe share a >>> little diagram of what you meant by "cross-string"? >>> >>> >>> Many thanks, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> As far as battery interconnections are concerned, in the absence of a >>>> battery / cell management module, it is next to impossible to ensure that >>>> individual battery voltages stay balanced. That said, you can minimize the >>>> potential for un! balance by making sure that your parallel batteries are >>>> connected cross-string, instead of to the terminals of one battery in the >>>> parallel bank. By this, I mean make the positive connection to the first >>>> battery in the parallel string, and the negative connection to the last >>>> battery in the string. As far as the series connections go, there is only >>>> one way to hook it up, but you can minimize the unbalance by ensuring that >>>> every battery is of the same type and capacity, and of the same age (I.e. >>>> replace all batteries simultaneously). Also, try not to tap off of a lesser >>>> number of batteries if you need a lower voltage for some purpose - instead, >>>> use a DC-DC converter powered by the entire string. >>>> >>>> As for charging, see if a recommended charge curve is provided by your >>>> battery manufacturer, and source an appropriate charger. The specs you >>>> listed are straightforward: maximum 2.4 Volts per cell (Implying 14.4 Volts >>>> max for a 12V battery) during charge, with nominal charge voltage 2.35 V >>>> per cell (14.1 V on a 12V battery. Once charged, the float voltage must >>>> drop to 2.25 - 2.3 Volts per cell (13.5V - 13.8V on a 12V battery). For a >>>> 24V system, you would double these values. >>>> >>>> The maximum ripple spec has to do with the quality of the rectifier >>>> output. A good quality charger will have circuitry to create more pulses >>>> per AC cycle and smoothing capacitors on the output side to better >>>> approximate a DC output. The ripple is the distance between minimum and >>>> maximum peak amplitudes on the "DC" output side. >>>> >>>> Sean >>>> >>>> >>>> On June 17, 2016 4:53:35 AM MDT, James Frankland via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi All >>>>> >>>>> Could anyone give me a hand with a battery charging question. It >>>>> sounds simple enough but I seem to be getting conflicting advice all over >>>>> the place. >>>>> >>>>> How do I charge my battery banks correctly? >>>>> >>>>> I have just spent a lot of money on a brand new set of batteries and I >>>>> don't want to charge them incorrectly. >>>>> >>>>> The batteries are WING ESL 55-12. AGM >>>>> 12v >>>>> 55ah >>>>> >>>>> On the sheet it gives charging instruction. >>>>> >>>>> Float 2.25 - 2.30 VPC @ 25deg C >>>>> Cycling 2.35 @ 25deg C >>>>> Max 2.4 VPC Max Ripple 0.05C (A) >>>>> >>>>> This seems straight forward enough for a single battery, but I have >>>>> them configured as a bank which seems to be where the issue lies. >>>>> >>>>> 2 pairs in parallel, then the 2 pairs joined in series to give 24v. >>>>> >>>>> I will have to ! charge them as a bank through the 24v output >>>>> terminals. >>>>> >>>>> I will add the spec sheet of the batteries. Hope it gets through. >>>>> >>>>> Any advice appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> James >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 14330 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Batteries.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66038 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 20 08:45:12 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 08:45:12 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just to clarify, the drawing shows the contents of ONE battery pod. There are two such pods, connected with a battery switch so I can use one, the other, or both. On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 8:43 AM, Alec Smyth wrote: > I was planning to do your #2. Hopefully this is "cross string"? > > [image: Inline image 1] > > Thanks, > > Alec > > On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 7:19 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> Thanks Guys. I need to absorb this information. A lot to read here. >> >> I don't really understand the "cross string" thing either. I will attach >> this picture of the 2 possible ways of doing it (for my application) and >> maybe Sean or someone can comment? >> >> I currently have the batteries rigged in Config 1, but have been advised >> (possibly incorrectly) to use config 2. Apparently this is how most high >> power UPS systems are configured and allows redundancy if 1 pair fails. >> >> Any ideas? >> >> Thanks >> James >> >> >> ? >> >> On 19 June 2016 at 23:56, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> If you wire two or more batteries together in parallel by connecting all >>> of the + terminals together and all of the - terminals together (hopefully >>> using bus bars or large and short cables), instead of making your power >>> draw or charging connections to the + and - terminals at one end of the >>> battery string (i.e. at a single battery), you should instead, for example, >>> connect to the + terminal of the first battery in the string, and the - >>> terminal of the last one. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>> On June 19, 2016 3:53:58 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Sean, >>>> >>>> I'm afraid I didn't get the meaning of "cross string." The other >>>> mitigating measures I'm in compliance with, but could you maybe share a >>>> little diagram of what you meant by "cross-string"? >>>> >>>> >>>> Many thanks, >>>> >>>> Alec >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>>> As far as battery interconnections are concerned, in the absence of a >>>>> battery / cell management module, it is next to impossible to ensure that >>>>> individual battery voltages stay balanced. That said, you can minimize the >>>>> potential for un! balance by making sure that your parallel batteries are >>>>> connected cross-string, instead of to the terminals of one battery in the >>>>> parallel bank. By this, I mean make the positive connection to the first >>>>> battery in the parallel string, and the negative connection to the last >>>>> battery in the string. As far as the series connections go, there is only >>>>> one way to hook it up, but you can minimize the unbalance by ensuring that >>>>> every battery is of the same type and capacity, and of the same age (I.e. >>>>> replace all batteries simultaneously). Also, try not to tap off of a lesser >>>>> number of batteries if you need a lower voltage for some purpose - instead, >>>>> use a DC-DC converter powered by the entire string. >>>>> >>>>> As for charging, see if a recommended charge curve is provided by your >>>>> battery manufacturer, and source an appropriate charger. The specs you >>>>> listed are straightforward: maximum 2.4 Volts per cell (Implying 14.4 Volts >>>>> max for a 12V battery) during charge, with nominal charge voltage 2.35 V >>>>> per cell (14.1 V on a 12V battery. Once charged, the float voltage must >>>>> drop to 2.25 - 2.3 Volts per cell (13.5V - 13.8V on a 12V battery). For a >>>>> 24V system, you would double these values. >>>>> >>>>> The maximum ripple spec has to do with the quality of the rectifier >>>>> output. A good quality charger will have circuitry to create more pulses >>>>> per AC cycle and smoothing capacitors on the output side to better >>>>> approximate a DC output. The ripple is the distance between minimum and >>>>> maximum peak amplitudes on the "DC" output side. >>>>> >>>>> Sean >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On June 17, 2016 4:53:35 AM MDT, James Frankland via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi All >>>>>> >>>>>> Could anyone give me a hand with a battery charging question. It >>>>>> sounds simple enough but I seem to be getting conflicting advice all over >>>>>> the place. >>>>>> >>>>>> How do I charge my battery banks correctly? >>>>>> >>>>>> I have just spent a lot of money on a brand new set of batteries and >>>>>> I don't want to charge them incorrectly. >>>>>> >>>>>> The batteries are WING ESL 55-12. AGM >>>>>> 12v >>>>>> 55ah >>>>>> >>>>>> On the sheet it gives charging instruction. >>>>>> >>>>>> Float 2.25 - 2.30 VPC @ 25deg C >>>>>> Cycling 2.35 @ 25deg C >>>>>> Max 2.4 VPC Max Ripple 0.05C (A) >>>>>> >>>>>> This seems straight forward enough for a single battery, but I have >>>>>> them configured as a bank which seems to be where the issue lies. >>>>>> >>>>>> 2 pairs in parallel, then the 2 pairs joined in series to give 24v. >>>>>> >>>>>> I will have to ! charge them as a bank through the 24v output >>>>>> terminals. >>>>>> >>>>>> I will add the spec sheet of the batteries. Hope it gets through. >>>>>> >>>>>> Any advice appreciated. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> James >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 14330 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Batteries.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66038 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 20 08:57:19 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 13:57:19 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I suspect your correct Alec. Means i'll have to take my batteries out again now, and modify the connections......which is a real pain. Hopefully Sean will chip in. On 20 June 2016 at 13:45, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Just to clarify, the drawing shows the contents of ONE battery pod. There > are two such pods, connected with a battery switch so I can use one, the > other, or both. > > On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 8:43 AM, Alec Smyth wrote: > >> I was planning to do your #2. Hopefully this is "cross string"? >> >> [image: Inline image 1] >> >> Thanks, >> >> Alec >> >> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 7:19 AM, James Frankland via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> Thanks Guys. I need to absorb this information. A lot to read here. >>> >>> I don't really understand the "cross string" thing either. I will >>> attach this picture of the 2 possible ways of doing it (for my application) >>> and maybe Sean or someone can comment? >>> >>> I currently have the batteries rigged in Config 1, but have been advised >>> (possibly incorrectly) to use config 2. Apparently this is how most high >>> power UPS systems are configured and allows redundancy if 1 pair fails. >>> >>> Any ideas? >>> >>> Thanks >>> James >>> >>> >>> ? >>> >>> On 19 June 2016 at 23:56, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> If you wire two or more batteries together in parallel by connecting >>>> all of the + terminals together and all of the - terminals together >>>> (hopefully using bus bars or large and short cables), instead of making >>>> your power draw or charging connections to the + and - terminals at one end >>>> of the battery string (i.e. at a single battery), you should instead, for >>>> example, connect to the + terminal of the first battery in the string, and >>>> the - terminal of the last one. >>>> >>>> Sean >>>> >>>> >>>> On June 19, 2016 3:53:58 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Sean, >>>>> >>>>> I'm afraid I didn't get the meaning of "cross string." The other >>>>> mitigating measures I'm in compliance with, but could you maybe share a >>>>> little diagram of what you meant by "cross-string"? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Many thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Alec >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> As far as battery interconnections are concerned, in the absence of a >>>>>> battery / cell management module, it is next to impossible to ensure that >>>>>> individual battery voltages stay balanced. That said, you can minimize the >>>>>> potential for un! balance by making sure that your parallel batteries are >>>>>> connected cross-string, instead of to the terminals of one battery in the >>>>>> parallel bank. By this, I mean make the positive connection to the first >>>>>> battery in the parallel string, and the negative connection to the last >>>>>> battery in the string. As far as the series connections go, there is only >>>>>> one way to hook it up, but you can minimize the unbalance by ensuring that >>>>>> every battery is of the same type and capacity, and of the same age (I.e. >>>>>> replace all batteries simultaneously). Also, try not to tap off of a lesser >>>>>> number of batteries if you need a lower voltage for some purpose - instead, >>>>>> use a DC-DC converter powered by the entire string. >>>>>> >>>>>> As for charging, see if a recommended charge curve is provided by >>>>>> your battery manufacturer, and source an appropriate charger. The specs you >>>>>> listed are straightforward: maximum 2.4 Volts per cell (Implying 14.4 Volts >>>>>> max for a 12V battery) during charge, with nominal charge voltage 2.35 V >>>>>> per cell (14.1 V on a 12V battery. Once charged, the float voltage must >>>>>> drop to 2.25 - 2.3 Volts per cell (13.5V - 13.8V on a 12V battery). For a >>>>>> 24V system, you would double these values. >>>>>> >>>>>> The maximum ripple spec has to do with the quality of the rectifier >>>>>> output. A good quality charger will have circuitry to create more pulses >>>>>> per AC cycle and smoothing capacitors on the output side to better >>>>>> approximate a DC output. The ripple is the distance between minimum and >>>>>> maximum peak amplitudes on the "DC" output side. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sean >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On June 17, 2016 4:53:35 AM MDT, James Frankland via >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi All >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Could anyone give me a hand with a battery charging question. It >>>>>>> sounds simple enough but I seem to be getting conflicting advice all over >>>>>>> the place. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How do I charge my battery banks correctly? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have just spent a lot of money on a brand new set of batteries and >>>>>>> I don't want to charge them incorrectly. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The batteries are WING ESL 55-12. AGM >>>>>>> 12v >>>>>>> 55ah >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On the sheet it gives charging instruction. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Float 2.25 - 2.30 VPC @ 25deg C >>>>>>> Cycling 2.35 @ 25deg C >>>>>>> Max 2.4 VPC Max Ripple 0.05C (A) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This seems straight forward enough for a single battery, but I have >>>>>>> them configured as a bank which seems to be where the issue lies. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2 pairs in parallel, then the 2 pairs joined in series to give 24v. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I will have to ! charge them as a bank through the 24v output >>>>>>> terminals. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I will add the spec sheet of the batteries. Hope it gets through. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any advice appreciated. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>> James >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Batteries.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66038 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 14330 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 20 09:47:24 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 09:47:24 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Config-1 is what Sean described but there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with Config-2 either. I'm not sure what kind of real-life failure could be expected from batteries that would make me worry about redundancy other than an explosion, but that seems rather remote. I'd go with whatever configuration turns out to be the easiest to wire and maintain. Jon On 6/20/2016 7:19 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks Guys. I need to absorb this information. A lot to read here. > I don't really understand the "cross string" thing either. I will > attach this picture of the 2 possible ways of doing it (for my > application) and maybe Sean or someone can comment? > I currently have the batteries rigged in Config 1, but have been > advised (possibly incorrectly) to use config 2. Apparently this is how > most high power UPS systems are configured and allows redundancy if 1 > pair fails. > Any ideas? > > Thanks > James > > ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 66038 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 20 10:22:13 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 14:22:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery Question In-Reply-To: References: <191042373.1221111.1466425575793.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <71693691.1290474.1466432533781.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> James,I would leave it alone, they are new batteries and you have a second bank. ?Also from personal experience test the output before you turn anything on. ?I just burnt out my light bar, scrubber motor and ac inverter ;-( ?apparently they can not handle 52V?Hank On Monday, June 20, 2016 6:42 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank.? I have 2 banks like this.? so 8 batteries in total.? The pic was only showing the possible configuration of 1 single set. On 20 June 2016 at 13:26, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James,I like option two for the reason you mention. My first thought is to have a battery bank switch but this eliminates the need for that, unless you want to isolate one bank for get home?safety.Hank On Monday, June 20, 2016 5:20 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Guys.? I need to absorb this information.? A lot to read here.? ?I don't really understand the "cross string" thing either.? I will attach this picture of the 2 possible ways of doing it (for my application) and maybe Sean or someone can comment??I currently have the batteries rigged in Config 1, but have been advised (possibly incorrectly) to use config 2.? Apparently this is how most high power UPS systems are configured and allows redundancy if 1 pair fails.?Any ideas? ThanksJames? ? On 19 June 2016 at 23:56, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: If you wire two or more batteries together in parallel by connecting all of the + terminals together and all of the - terminals together (hopefully using bus bars or large and short cables), instead of making your power draw or charging connections to the + and - terminals at one end of the battery string (i.e. at a single battery), you should instead, for example, connect to the + terminal of the first battery in the string, and the - terminal of the last one.Sean On June 19, 2016 3:53:58 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Sean, I'm afraid I didn't get the meaning of "cross string." The other mitigating measures I'm in compliance with, but could you maybe share a little diagram of what you meant by "cross-string"?? Many thanks, Alec On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: As far as battery interconnections are concerned, in the absence of a battery / cell management module, it is next to impossible to ensure that individual battery voltages stay balanced. That said, you can minimize the potential for un! balanceby making sure that your parallel batteries are connected cross-string, instead of to the terminals of one battery in the parallel bank. By this, I mean make the positive connection to the first battery in the parallel string, and the negative connection to the last battery in the string.? As far as the series connections go, there is only one way to hook it up, but you can minimize the unbalance by ensuring that every battery is of the same type and capacity, and of the same age (I.e. replace all batteries simultaneously). Also, try not to tap off of a lesser number of batteries if you need a lower voltage for some purpose - instead, use a DC-DC converter powered by the entire string.As for charging, see if a recommended charge curve is provided by your battery manufacturer, and source an appropriate charger. The specs you listed are straightforward: maximum 2.4 Volts per cell (Implying 14.4 Volts max for a 12V battery) during charge, with nominal charge voltage 2.35 V per cell (14.1 V on a 12V battery. Once charged, the float voltage must drop to 2.25 - 2.3 Volts per cell (13.5V - 13.8V on a 12V battery).? For a 24V system, you would double these values.The maximum ripple spec has to do with the quality of the rectifier output. A good quality charger will have circuitry to create more pulses per AC cycle and smoothing capacitors on the output side to better approximate a DC output. The ripple is the distance between minimum and maximum peak amplitudes on the "DC" output side.Sean On June 17, 2016 4:53:35 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Hi All?Could anyone give me a hand with a battery charging question.? It sounds simple enough but I seem to be getting conflicting advice all over the place.? ?How do I charge my battery banks correctly??I have just spent a lot of money on a brand new set of batteries and I don't want to charge them incorrectly.?The batteries are WING ESL 55-12.? AGM12v55ah?On the sheet it gives charging instruction.??Float 2.25 - 2.30 VPC @ 25deg CCycling 2.35 @ 25deg CMax 2.4 VPC Max Ripple 0.05C (A)?This seems straight forward enough for a single battery, but I have them configured as a bank which seems to be where the issue lies.?2 pairs in parallel, then the 2 pairs joined in series to give 24v.?Iwill have to ! chargethem as a bank through the 24v output terminals.?I will add the spec sheet of the batteries.? Hope it gets through. Any advice appreciated.? ?RegardsJames?? Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Batteries.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66038 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 20 10:28:40 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 09:28:40 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33610B6F-DD14-476B-B877-6CD2D7F7E224@gmail.com> I have my boat wired as option 2. 36vdc as two groups in parallel each with three 12vdc batteries wired in series. I have a 36 Vdc battery charger that charges the whole bank at one time. No BMS. Seems to work fine. Cliff Cliff Redus > On Jun 20, 2016, at 7:57 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I suspect your correct Alec. Means i'll have to take my batteries out again now, and modify the connections......which is a real pain. Hopefully Sean will chip in. > >> On 20 June 2016 at 13:45, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Just to clarify, the drawing shows the contents of ONE battery pod. There are two such pods, connected with a battery switch so I can use one, the other, or both. >> >>> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 8:43 AM, Alec Smyth wrote: >>> I was planning to do your #2. Hopefully this is "cross string"? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>>> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 7:19 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Thanks Guys. I need to absorb this information. A lot to read here. >>>> >>>> I don't really understand the "cross string" thing either. I will attach this picture of the 2 possible ways of doing it (for my application) and maybe Sean or someone can comment? >>>> >>>> I currently have the batteries rigged in Config 1, but have been advised (possibly incorrectly) to use config 2. Apparently this is how most high power UPS systems are configured and allows redundancy if 1 pair fails. >>>> >>>> Any ideas? >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> James >>>> >>>> >>>> ? >>>> >>>>> On 19 June 2016 at 23:56, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> If you wire two or more batteries together in parallel by connecting all of the + terminals together and all of the - terminals together (hopefully using bus bars or large and short cables), instead of making your power draw or charging connections to the + and - terminals at one end of the battery string (i.e. at a single battery), you should instead, for example, connect to the + terminal of the first battery in the string, and the - terminal of the last one. >>>>> >>>>> Sean >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On June 19, 2016 3:53:58 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> Hi Sean, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm afraid I didn't get the meaning of "cross string." The other mitigating measures I'm in compliance with, but could you maybe share a little diagram of what you meant by "cross-string"? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Many thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Alec >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> As far as battery interconnections are concerned, in the absence of a battery / cell management module, it is next to impossible to ensure that individual battery voltages stay balanced. That said, you can minimize the potential for un! balance by making sure that your parallel batteries are connected cross-string, instead of to the terminals of one battery in the parallel bank. By this, I mean make the positive connection to the first battery in the parallel string, and the negative connection to the last battery in the string. As far as the series connections go, there is only one way to hook it up, but you can minimize the unbalance by ensuring that every battery is of the same type and capacity, and of the same age (I.e. replace all batteries simultaneously). Also, try not to tap off of a lesser number of batteries if you need a lower voltage for some purpose - instead, use a DC-DC converter powered by the entire string. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As for charging, see if a recommended charge curve is provided by your battery manufacturer, and source an appropriate charger. The specs you listed are straightforward: maximum 2.4 Volts per cell (Implying 14.4 Volts max for a 12V battery) during charge, with nominal charge voltage 2.35 V per cell (14.1 V on a 12V battery. Once charged, the float voltage must drop to 2.25 - 2.3 Volts per cell (13.5V - 13.8V on a 12V battery). For a 24V system, you would double these values. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The maximum ripple spec has to do with the quality of the rectifier output. A good quality charger will have circuitry to create more pulses per AC cycle and smoothing capacitors on the output side to better approximate a DC output. The ripple is the distance between minimum and maximum peak amplitudes on the "DC" output side. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sean >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On June 17, 2016 4:53:35 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi All >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Could anyone give me a hand with a battery charging question. It sounds simple enough but I seem to be getting conflicting advice all over the place. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How do I charge my battery banks correctly? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have just spent a lot of money on a brand new set of batteries and I don't want to charge them incorrectly. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The batteries are WING ESL 55-12. AGM >>>>>>>> 12v >>>>>>>> 55ah >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On the sheet it gives charging instruction. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Float 2.25 - 2.30 VPC @ 25deg C >>>>>>>> Cycling 2.35 @ 25deg C >>>>>>>> Max 2.4 VPC Max Ripple 0.05C (A) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This seems straight forward enough for a single battery, but I have them configured as a bank which seems to be where the issue lies. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2 pairs in parallel, then the 2 pairs joined in series to give 24v. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I will have to ! charge them as a bank through the 24v output terminals. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I will add the spec sheet of the batteries. Hope it gets through. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Any advice appreciated. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>> James >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 21 18:47:04 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 22:47:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp draw References: <877762520.2118530.1466549224616.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <877762520.2118530.1466549224616.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Alan,I rearranged my electrical system to 48 volts and my motors are now running in the sweet spot for amperage 12.5 each. ?That was my target- I am basing the required amp draw by the original wire size in the motor penetrator.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 21 21:30:56 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 01:30:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop guard References: <834564096.2170165.1466559056495.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <834564096.2170165.1466559056495.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Today I did some more Gamma testing diving etc and I think my prop guards are interfering with performance. ?When I am under way the prop does not sound smooth. ?There seems to be turbulence, or so it sounds like. ?When originally I tested the motors in the lake by just holding on to them, ?the performance was poor. ?When i took the prop guards off they were fantastic. ?So it seems a Kort nozzle is good but a random tube around the prop may be bad?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 21 22:02:17 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 16:02:17 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop guard In-Reply-To: <834564096.2170165.1466559056495.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <834564096.2170165.1466559056495.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <834564096.2170165.1466559056495.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I know nothing about Kort nozzles compared to most on this site but it seems that the gap between the tip of the prop and nozzle wall is very important and the edges of the nozzle may have to be flared too?? That's my 3 cents worth. Rick On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 3:30 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Today I did some more Gamma testing diving etc and I think my prop guards > are interfering with performance. When I am under way the prop does not > sound smooth. There seems to be turbulence, or so it sounds like. When > originally I tested the motors in the lake by just holding on to them, the > performance was poor. When i took the prop guards off they were > fantastic. So it seems a Kort nozzle is good but a random tube around the > prop may be bad? > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 21 22:49:59 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 02:49:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp draw In-Reply-To: <877762520.2118530.1466549224616.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <877762520.2118530.1466549224616.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <877762520.2118530.1466549224616.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <706624535.7347331.1466563799576.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,Good thinking, looking at the original wires. Were you basing?calculations on a marine wire gauge chart? They are a lot more liberal.I believe the kort nozzles put more load on your motor, in case that has anything to dowith performance.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 10:47 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp draw Hi Alan,I rearranged my electrical system to 48 volts and my motors are now running in the sweet spot for amperage 12.5 each. ?That was my target- I am basing the required amp draw by the original wire size in the motor penetrator.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 22 07:17:33 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 11:17:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp draw In-Reply-To: <706624535.7347331.1466563799576.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <877762520.2118530.1466549224616.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <877762520.2118530.1466549224616.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <706624535.7347331.1466563799576.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1942272686.2413301.1466594253885.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I am not calling the guards Kort nozzles because a Kort nozzle is a precision made part intended to boost performance. ?What I have is a random size heavy wall short piece of pipe around the prop with a layer of ss to extend the coverage. ?I removed the ss layer so the prop is open just to see what happens. ?The motor performance is good-the prop noise just needs to be investigated. ?The new cartridge seals are a dream.I am welding on permanent MBT bottom vent extensions today. ?When I installed the solenoid vents, I removed my temporary vent extensions thinking I did not need them. ?Turns out the vent extensions are crucial. ?I ended up only putting two solenoids on the front of the rear tanks as well as a vent line to take care of that pesky little ?air trap in front of the vertical thrusters. ?The whole venting system works like a charm now. ?I have to say, I sure like the solenoid system-it would work nicely on a K sub also.Hank ? On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 8:49 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,Good thinking, looking at the original wires. Were you basing?calculations on a marine wire gauge chart? They are a lot more liberal.I believe the kort nozzles put more load on your motor, in case that has anything to dowith performance.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 10:47 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp draw Hi Alan,I rearranged my electrical system to 48 volts and my motors are now running in the sweet spot for amperage 12.5 each. ?That was my target- I am basing the required amp draw by the original wire size in the motor penetrator.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 22 07:53:59 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 12:53:59 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp draw In-Reply-To: <1942272686.2413301.1466594253885.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <877762520.2118530.1466549224616.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <877762520.2118530.1466549224616.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <706624535.7347331.1466563799576.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1942272686.2413301.1466594253885.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, can you elaborate on the solenoid system? Sounds interesting. Check out my new boat to be used as submarine tender. Im fed up with begging other people to help on dive days. Whilst its not the biggest boat for subbing, its convenient and also good for the odd day trip and fishing etc as well.... ? On 22 June 2016 at 12:17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alan, > I am not calling the guards Kort nozzles because a Kort nozzle is a > precision made part intended to boost performance. What I have is a random > size heavy wall short piece of pipe around the prop with a layer of ss to > extend the coverage. I removed the ss layer so the prop is open just to > see what happens. The motor performance is good-the prop noise just needs > to be investigated. The new cartridge seals are a dream. > I am welding on permanent MBT bottom vent extensions today. When I > installed the solenoid vents, I removed my temporary vent extensions > thinking I did not need them. Turns out the vent extensions are crucial. > I ended up only putting two solenoids on the front of the rear tanks as > well as a vent line to take care of that pesky little air trap in front of > the vertical thrusters. The whole venting system works like a charm now. > I have to say, I sure like the solenoid system-it would work nicely on a K > sub also. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 8:49 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hank, > Good thinking, looking at the original wires. > Were you basing calculations on a marine wire gauge chart? They are a lot > more liberal. > I believe the kort nozzles put more load on your motor, in case that has > anything to do > with performance. > Alan > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 22, 2016 10:47 AM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp draw > > Hi Alan, > I rearranged my electrical system to 48 volts and my motors are now > running in the sweet spot for amperage 12.5 each. That was my target- I am > basing the required amp draw by the original wire size in the motor > penetrator. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Untitled.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 252289 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 22 08:26:07 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 12:26:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp draw In-Reply-To: References: <877762520.2118530.1466549224616.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <877762520.2118530.1466549224616.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <706624535.7347331.1466563799576.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1942272686.2413301.1466594253885.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1785411214.2350432.1466598367526.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> James,Nice boat, I like the tender on back. ? The cabin is a very nice feature. ?The?solenoid system is simply air\water solenoid vents. ?They amount directly to the MBT so there is no chance of an air trap in a line. ?As Alan pointed out, there may be an issue with salt water. ?I am sure there is a creative way to overcome that though. ?You just screw them on and run ?a couple of wires, it is that easy.Hank On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 5:54 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, can you elaborate on the solenoid system?? Sounds interesting.?Check out my new boat to be used as submarine tender.? Im fed up with begging other people to help on dive days.? ?Whilst its not the biggest boat for subbing, its convenient and also good for the odd day trip and fishing etc as well....? ??? On 22 June 2016 at 12:17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I am not calling the guards Kort nozzles because a Kort nozzle is a precision made part intended to boost performance.? What I have is a random size heavy wall short piece of pipe around the prop with a layer of ss to extend the coverage.? I removed the ss layer so the prop is open just to see what happens.? The motor performance is good-the prop noise just needs to be investigated.? The new cartridge seals are a dream.I am welding on permanent MBT bottom vent extensions today.? When I installed the solenoid vents, I removed my temporary vent extensions thinking I did not need them.? Turns out the vent extensions are crucial.? I ended up only putting two solenoids on the front of the rear tanks as well as a vent line to take care of that pesky little ?air trap in front of the vertical thrusters.? The whole venting system works like a charm now.? I have to say, I sure like the solenoid system-it would work nicely on a K sub also.Hank ? On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 8:49 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,Good thinking, looking at the original wires. Were you basing?calculations on a marine wire gauge chart? They are a lot more liberal.I believe the kort nozzles put more load on your motor, in case that has anything to dowith performance.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 10:47 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp draw Hi Alan,I rearranged my electrical system to 48 volts and my motors are now running in the sweet spot for amperage 12.5 each.? That was my target- I am basing the required amp draw by the original wire size in the motor penetrator.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Untitled.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 252289 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 22 10:18:45 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 15:18:45 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp draw In-Reply-To: <1785411214.2350432.1466598367526.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <877762520.2118530.1466549224616.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <877762520.2118530.1466549224616.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <706624535.7347331.1466563799576.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1942272686.2413301.1466594253885.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1785411214.2350432.1466598367526.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: hmm, sounds interesting. Can you send me a link? They would have to be ok in salt water though. But could test them or maybe modify? On 22 June 2016 at 13:26, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, > Nice boat, I like the tender on back. The cabin is a very nice feature. > The solenoid system is simply air\water solenoid vents. They amount > directly to the MBT so there is no chance of an air trap in a line. As > Alan pointed out, there may be an issue with salt water. I am sure there > is a creative way to overcome that though. You just screw them on and run > a couple of wires, it is that easy. > Hank > > > On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 5:54 AM, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, can you elaborate on the solenoid system? Sounds interesting. > > Check out my new boat to be used as submarine tender. Im fed up with > begging other people to help on dive days. > > Whilst its not the biggest boat for subbing, its convenient and also good > for the odd day trip and fishing etc as well.... > > > ? > > > > On 22 June 2016 at 12:17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > I am not calling the guards Kort nozzles because a Kort nozzle is a > precision made part intended to boost performance. What I have is a random > size heavy wall short piece of pipe around the prop with a layer of ss to > extend the coverage. I removed the ss layer so the prop is open just to > see what happens. The motor performance is good-the prop noise just needs > to be investigated. The new cartridge seals are a dream. > I am welding on permanent MBT bottom vent extensions today. When I > installed the solenoid vents, I removed my temporary vent extensions > thinking I did not need them. Turns out the vent extensions are crucial. > I ended up only putting two solenoids on the front of the rear tanks as > well as a vent line to take care of that pesky little air trap in front of > the vertical thrusters. The whole venting system works like a charm now. > I have to say, I sure like the solenoid system-it would work nicely on a K > sub also. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 8:49 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hank, > Good thinking, looking at the original wires. > Were you basing calculations on a marine wire gauge chart? They are a lot > more liberal. > I believe the kort nozzles put more load on your motor, in case that has > anything to do > with performance. > Alan > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 22, 2016 10:47 AM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp draw > > Hi Alan, > I rearranged my electrical system to 48 volts and my motors are now > running in the sweet spot for amperage 12.5 each. That was my target- I am > basing the required amp draw by the original wire size in the motor > penetrator. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Untitled.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 252289 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 22 10:41:25 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 14:41:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp draw In-Reply-To: References: <877762520.2118530.1466549224616.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <877762520.2118530.1466549224616.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <706624535.7347331.1466563799576.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1942272686.2413301.1466594253885.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1785411214.2350432.1466598367526.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1774883213.2432009.1466606485206.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Sure can James, but I am sure Alan will chime in-he is up on the salt water issues. ?Maybe Hugh knows of a salt water capable valve. ?I am so luck to be in fresh water ;-)Hank On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 8:19 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: hmm, sounds interesting.? Can you send me a link?? They would have to be ok in salt water though.? But could test them or maybe modify? On 22 June 2016 at 13:26, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James,Nice boat, I like the tender on back. ? The cabin is a very nice feature. ?The?solenoid system is simply air\water solenoid vents.? They amount directly to the MBT so there is no chance of an air trap in a line.? As Alan pointed out, there may be an issue with salt water.? I am sure there is a creative way to overcome that though.? You just screw them on and run ?a couple of wires, it is that easy.Hank On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 5:54 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, can you elaborate on the solenoid system?? Sounds interesting.?Check out my new boat to be used as submarine tender.? Im fed up with begging other people to help on dive days.? ?Whilst its not the biggest boat for subbing, its convenient and also good for the odd day trip and fishing etc as well....? ??? On 22 June 2016 at 12:17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I am not calling the guards Kort nozzles because a Kort nozzle is a precision made part intended to boost performance.? What I have is a random size heavy wall short piece of pipe around the prop with a layer of ss to extend the coverage.? I removed the ss layer so the prop is open just to see what happens.? The motor performance is good-the prop noise just needs to be investigated.? The new cartridge seals are a dream.I am welding on permanent MBT bottom vent extensions today.? When I installed the solenoid vents, I removed my temporary vent extensions thinking I did not need them.? Turns out the vent extensions are crucial.? I ended up only putting two solenoids on the front of the rear tanks as well as a vent line to take care of that pesky little ?air trap in front of the vertical thrusters.? The whole venting system works like a charm now.? I have to say, I sure like the solenoid system-it would work nicely on a K sub also.Hank ? On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 8:49 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,Good thinking, looking at the original wires. Were you basing?calculations on a marine wire gauge chart? They are a lot more liberal.I believe the kort nozzles put more load on your motor, in case that has anything to dowith performance.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 10:47 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp draw Hi Alan,I rearranged my electrical system to 48 volts and my motors are now running in the sweet spot for amperage 12.5 each.? That was my target- I am basing the required amp draw by the original wire size in the motor penetrator.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: Untitled.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 252289 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 22 19:35:47 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 23:35:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp draw In-Reply-To: <1774883213.2432009.1466606485206.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <877762520.2118530.1466549224616.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <877762520.2118530.1466549224616.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <706624535.7347331.1466563799576.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1942272686.2413301.1466594253885.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1785411214.2350432.1466598367526.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1774883213.2432009.1466606485206.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <399076954.128336.1466638548016.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi James,Hugh is the expert in valves & he did tell me he hadn't founda suitable solenoid valve for exhausting the ballast tanks.?? There are 3 types of solenoid valves, direct action, which?relies on a strong solenoid to?open the valve. Indirect actuation which uses the solenoid but relies on the pressure inthe system to?open the valve, &?force lifting?which is a combination of the two.You want the direct action or force lifting that don't require the pressure of the mediumto open them. Of the?two I would say direct action, as it probably is less complicated & has lesscomponents to corrode. The direct action are normally at least 24V as they require more power.One thing to look out for is the max operating pressure,?as the ambient pressure at depth may exceed this.Article here on solenoids for corrosive environments.http://www.connexion-developments.com/solenoid-valves-aggressive-media.html?? You will need to pot the wires going in to the solenoid of course.I had my 3 ballast tanks with solenoids operating remotely from a playstation controller, & it was great having?that fine quick control. I also had solenoids for filling, these were in the hull & are great as long as you keep any water?from backflowing in to?the valve. These can be indirect action.Let me know if you see something suitable. Congratulations on the boat purchase, look forwardto the dive videos.Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 2:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp draw Sure can James, but I am sure Alan will chime in-he is up on the salt water issues. ?Maybe Hugh knows of a salt water capable valve. ?I am so luck to be in fresh water ;-)Hank On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 8:19 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: hmm, sounds interesting.? Can you send me a link?? They would have to be ok in salt water though.? But could test them or maybe modify? On 22 June 2016 at 13:26, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James,Nice boat, I like the tender on back. ? The cabin is a very nice feature. ?The?solenoid system is simply air\water solenoid vents.? They amount directly to the MBT so there is no chance of an air trap in a line.? As Alan pointed out, there may be an issue with salt water.? I am sure there is a creative way to overcome that though.? You just screw them on and run ?a couple of wires, it is that easy.Hank On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 5:54 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, can you elaborate on the solenoid system?? Sounds interesting.?Check out my new boat to be used as submarine tender.? Im fed up with begging other people to help on dive days.? ?Whilst its not the biggest boat for subbing, its convenient and also good for the odd day trip and fishing etc as well....? ??? On 22 June 2016 at 12:17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I am not calling the guards Kort nozzles because a Kort nozzle is a precision made part intended to boost performance.? What I have is a random size heavy wall short piece of pipe around the prop with a layer of ss to extend the coverage.? I removed the ss layer so the prop is open just to see what happens.? The motor performance is good-the prop noise just needs to be investigated.? The new cartridge seals are a dream.I am welding on permanent MBT bottom vent extensions today.? When I installed the solenoid vents, I removed my temporary vent extensions thinking I did not need them.? Turns out the vent extensions are crucial.? I ended up only putting two solenoids on the front of the rear tanks as well as a vent line to take care of that pesky little ?air trap in front of the vertical thrusters.? The whole venting system works like a charm now.? I have to say, I sure like the solenoid system-it would work nicely on a K sub also.Hank ? On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 8:49 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,Good thinking, looking at the original wires. Were you basing?calculations on a marine wire gauge chart? They are a lot more liberal.I believe the kort nozzles put more load on your motor, in case that has anything to dowith performance.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 10:47 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp draw Hi Alan,I rearranged my electrical system to 48 volts and my motors are now running in the sweet spot for amperage 12.5 each.? That was my target- I am basing the required amp draw by the original wire size in the motor penetrator.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: Untitled.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 252289 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 22 20:47:59 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 00:47:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp draw In-Reply-To: <399076954.128336.1466638548016.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <877762520.2118530.1466549224616.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <877762520.2118530.1466549224616.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <706624535.7347331.1466563799576.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1942272686.2413301.1466594253885.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1785411214.2350432.1466598367526.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1774883213.2432009.1466606485206.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <399076954.128336.1466638548016.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1000927965.189216.1466642879331.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> James,also in a lot of cases, the solenoid can just clip on to the valve& can be bought as a separate item. In this case it?would need sealing onto the valve to stop water getting up & around the iron plungerthat the electromagnet actuates.Alan From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 11:35 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp draw Hi James,Hugh is the expert in valves & he did tell me he hadn't founda suitable solenoid valve for exhausting the ballast tanks.?? There are 3 types of solenoid valves, direct action, which?relies on a strong solenoid to?open the valve. Indirect actuation which uses the solenoid but relies on the pressure inthe system to?open the valve, &?force lifting?which is a combination of the two.You want the direct action or force lifting that don't require the pressure of the mediumto open them. Of the?two I would say direct action, as it probably is less complicated & has lesscomponents to corrode. The direct action are normally at least 24V as they require more power.One thing to look out for is the max operating pressure,?as the ambient pressure at depth may exceed this.Article here on solenoids for corrosive environments.http://www.connexion-developments.com/solenoid-valves-aggressive-media.html?? You will need to pot the wires going in to the solenoid of course.I had my 3 ballast tanks with solenoids operating remotely from a playstation controller, & it was great having?that fine quick control. I also had solenoids for filling, these were in the hull & are great as long as you keep any water?from backflowing in to?the valve. These can be indirect action.Let me know if you see something suitable. Congratulations on the boat purchase, look forwardto the dive videos.Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 2:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp draw Sure can James, but I am sure Alan will chime in-he is up on the salt water issues. ?Maybe Hugh knows of a salt water capable valve. ?I am so luck to be in fresh water ;-)Hank On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 8:19 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: hmm, sounds interesting.? Can you send me a link?? They would have to be ok in salt water though.? But could test them or maybe modify? On 22 June 2016 at 13:26, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James,Nice boat, I like the tender on back. ? The cabin is a very nice feature. ?The?solenoid system is simply air\water solenoid vents.? They amount directly to the MBT so there is no chance of an air trap in a line.? As Alan pointed out, there may be an issue with salt water.? I am sure there is a creative way to overcome that though.? You just screw them on and run ?a couple of wires, it is that easy.Hank On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 5:54 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, can you elaborate on the solenoid system?? Sounds interesting.?Check out my new boat to be used as submarine tender.? Im fed up with begging other people to help on dive days.? ?Whilst its not the biggest boat for subbing, its convenient and also good for the odd day trip and fishing etc as well....? ??? On 22 June 2016 at 12:17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I am not calling the guards Kort nozzles because a Kort nozzle is a precision made part intended to boost performance.? What I have is a random size heavy wall short piece of pipe around the prop with a layer of ss to extend the coverage.? I removed the ss layer so the prop is open just to see what happens.? The motor performance is good-the prop noise just needs to be investigated.? The new cartridge seals are a dream.I am welding on permanent MBT bottom vent extensions today.? When I installed the solenoid vents, I removed my temporary vent extensions thinking I did not need them.? Turns out the vent extensions are crucial.? I ended up only putting two solenoids on the front of the rear tanks as well as a vent line to take care of that pesky little ?air trap in front of the vertical thrusters.? The whole venting system works like a charm now.? I have to say, I sure like the solenoid system-it would work nicely on a K sub also.Hank ? On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 8:49 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,Good thinking, looking at the original wires. Were you basing?calculations on a marine wire gauge chart? They are a lot more liberal.I believe the kort nozzles put more load on your motor, in case that has anything to dowith performance.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 10:47 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp draw Hi Alan,I rearranged my electrical system to 48 volts and my motors are now running in the sweet spot for amperage 12.5 each.? That was my target- I am basing the required amp draw by the original wire size in the motor penetrator.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 23 05:03:23 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 10:03:23 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp draw In-Reply-To: <1000927965.189216.1466642879331.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <877762520.2118530.1466549224616.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <877762520.2118530.1466549224616.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <706624535.7347331.1466563799576.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1942272686.2413301.1466594253885.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1785411214.2350432.1466598367526.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1774883213.2432009.1466606485206.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <399076954.128336.1466638548016.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1000927965.189216.1466642879331.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Alan. I will investigate further. Regards James On 23 June 2016 at 01:47, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, > also in a lot of cases, the solenoid can just clip on to the valve > & can be bought as a separate item. In this case it would need sealing on > to the valve to stop water getting up & around the iron plunger > that the electromagnet actuates. > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, June 23, 2016 11:35 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp draw > > Hi James, > Hugh is the expert in valves & he did tell me he hadn't found > a suitable solenoid valve for exhausting the ballast tanks. > There are 3 types of solenoid valves, direct action, which relies on a > strong solenoid to > open the valve. Indirect actuation which uses the solenoid but relies on > the pressure in > the system to open the valve, & force lifting which is a combination of > the two. > You want the direct action or force lifting that don't require the > pressure of the medium > to open them. Of the two I would say direct action, as it probably is less > complicated & has less > components to corrode. The direct action are normally at least 24V as they > require more power. > One thing to look out for is the max operating pressure, as the ambient > pressure at depth may exceed this. > Article here on solenoids for corrosive environments. > http://www.connexion-developments.com/solenoid-valves-aggressive-media.html > You will need to pot the wires going in to the solenoid of course. > I had my 3 ballast tanks with solenoids operating remotely from a > playstation controller, & > it was great having that fine quick control. I also had solenoids for > filling, these were in the hull & are great as > long as you keep any water from backflowing in to the valve. These can be > indirect action. > Let me know if you see something suitable. Congratulations on the boat > purchase, look forward > to the dive videos. > Cheers Alan > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, June 23, 2016 2:41 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp draw > > Sure can James, but I am sure Alan will chime in-he is up on the salt > water issues. > Maybe Hugh knows of a salt water capable valve. I am so luck to be in > fresh water ;-) > Hank > > > On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 8:19 AM, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > hmm, sounds interesting. Can you send me a link? They would have to be > ok in salt water though. But could test them or maybe modify? > > On 22 June 2016 at 13:26, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > James, > Nice boat, I like the tender on back. The cabin is a very nice feature. > The solenoid system is simply air\water solenoid vents. They amount > directly to the MBT so there is no chance of an air trap in a line. As > Alan pointed out, there may be an issue with salt water. I am sure there > is a creative way to overcome that though. You just screw them on and run > a couple of wires, it is that easy. > Hank > > > On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 5:54 AM, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, can you elaborate on the solenoid system? Sounds interesting. > > Check out my new boat to be used as submarine tender. Im fed up with > begging other people to help on dive days. > > Whilst its not the biggest boat for subbing, its convenient and also good > for the odd day trip and fishing etc as well.... > > > ? > > > > On 22 June 2016 at 12:17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > I am not calling the guards Kort nozzles because a Kort nozzle is a > precision made part intended to boost performance. What I have is a random > size heavy wall short piece of pipe around the prop with a layer of ss to > extend the coverage. I removed the ss layer so the prop is open just to > see what happens. The motor performance is good-the prop noise just needs > to be investigated. The new cartridge seals are a dream. > I am welding on permanent MBT bottom vent extensions today. When I > installed the solenoid vents, I removed my temporary vent extensions > thinking I did not need them. Turns out the vent extensions are crucial. > I ended up only putting two solenoids on the front of the rear tanks as > well as a vent line to take care of that pesky little air trap in front of > the vertical thrusters. The whole venting system works like a charm now. > I have to say, I sure like the solenoid system-it would work nicely on a K > sub also. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 8:49 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hank, > Good thinking, looking at the original wires. > Were you basing calculations on a marine wire gauge chart? They are a lot > more liberal. > I believe the kort nozzles put more load on your motor, in case that has > anything to do > with performance. > Alan > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 22, 2016 10:47 AM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] amp draw > > Hi Alan, > I rearranged my electrical system to 48 volts and my motors are now > running in the sweet spot for amperage 12.5 each. That was my target- I am > basing the required amp draw by the original wire size in the motor > penetrator. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 23 07:15:17 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 11:15:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Solenoid valve References: <1637292298.214647.1466680517640.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1637292298.214647.1466680517640.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> James,I have attached a solenoid valve?design based on Vance's ?pneumaticallyoperated top hat ballast valve. It was done quickly & is open?comment &?being evolved.?? A solenoid is just a coil of wire with an iron core plunger. As long as the solenoid& plunger are coated with epoxy or similar this simple design should work.The solenoid is clamped in place by the two circular plates & the retaining bolts.(didn't put thread on the bolts) The neoprene gasket seals on it's seat by the springspressure & air pressure in the ballast tanks. when power is on the solenoid itdraws the plunger in to it, which pulls the gasket seal open.A solenoid is easy to make but it may take some experimentation to get the right gauge of wire & number of windings, so that it opens the valve but doesn'theat up excessively.The other neoprene gaskets shown are for sealing to the hull.Some sought of gauze needs placing round it to stop foreign matter gettingin the valve seat. Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: solenoid valve.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 239597 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 23 07:26:34 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 11:26:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Solenoid valve In-Reply-To: <1637292298.214647.1466680517640.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1637292298.214647.1466680517640.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1637292298.214647.1466680517640.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <673184414.177068.1466681194865.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Perhaps an?oil filled enclosure could be built around the valve. ?I have never potted anything on one of these valves, they go strait from the box to the sub (ROV).Hank On Thursday, June 23, 2016 5:18 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James,I have attached a solenoid valve?design based on Vance's ?pneumaticallyoperated top hat ballast valve. It was done quickly & is open?comment &?being evolved.?? A solenoid is just a coil of wire with an iron core plunger. As long as the solenoid& plunger are coated with epoxy or similar this simple design should work.The solenoid is clamped in place by the two circular plates & the retaining bolts.(didn't put thread on the bolts) The neoprene gasket seals on it's seat by the springspressure & air pressure in the ballast tanks. when power is on the solenoid itdraws the plunger in to it, which pulls the gasket seal open.A solenoid is easy to make but it may take some experimentation to get the right gauge of wire & number of windings, so that it opens the valve but doesn'theat up excessively.The other neoprene gaskets shown are for sealing to the hull.Some sought of gauze needs placing round it to stop foreign matter gettingin the valve seat. Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 23 07:49:13 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 23:49:13 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Solenoid valve In-Reply-To: <673184414.177068.1466681194865.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1637292298.214647.1466680517640.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1637292298.214647.1466680517640.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <673184414.177068.1466681194865.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I thought of putting bellows around the plunger & oil filling the solenoid, but I would need another set of bellows or something to compensate for the displaced oil when the plunger retracted. I Googled to try & find a suitable off the shelf valve but couldn't find anything. This design should be fine. It will be corrosion proof & work at any depth. I am not sure I like the retaining system of the solenoid & might look around for something off the shelf I can adapt. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 23/06/2016, at 11:26 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > Perhaps an oil filled enclosure could be built around the valve. I have never potted anything on one of these valves, they go strait from the box to the sub (ROV). > Hank > > > On Thursday, June 23, 2016 5:18 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > James, > I have attached a solenoid valve design based on Vance's pneumatically > operated top hat ballast valve. It was done quickly & is open comment & being evolved. > A solenoid is just a coil of wire with an iron core plunger. As long as the solenoid > & plunger are coated with epoxy or similar this simple design should work. > The solenoid is clamped in place by the two circular plates & the retaining bolts. > (didn't put thread on the bolts) The neoprene gasket seals on it's seat by the springs > pressure & air pressure in the ballast tanks. when power is on the solenoid it > draws the plunger in to it, which pulls the gasket seal open. > A solenoid is easy to make but it may take some experimentation to get the > right gauge of wire & number of windings, so that it opens the valve but doesn't > heat up excessively. > The other neoprene gaskets shown are for sealing to the hull. > Some sought of gauze needs placing round it to stop foreign matter getting > in the valve seat. > Alan > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 23 08:42:51 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 13:42:51 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Solenoid valve In-Reply-To: References: <1637292298.214647.1466680517640.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1637292298.214647.1466680517640.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <673184414.177068.1466681194865.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Alan. Looks interesting. I am still considering this option. Want to crack on with my batteries, but have to go to London this weekend. grrrr On 23 June 2016 at 12:49, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hank, > I thought of putting bellows around the plunger & oil filling the solenoid, > but I would need another set of bellows or something to compensate > for the displaced oil when the plunger retracted. > I Googled to try & find a suitable off the shelf valve but couldn't find > anything. > This design should be fine. It will be corrosion proof & work at any > depth. > I am not sure I like the retaining system of the solenoid & might look > around for > something off the shelf I can adapt. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 23/06/2016, at 11:26 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > Perhaps an oil filled enclosure could be built around the valve. I have > never potted anything on one of these valves, they go strait from the box > to the sub (ROV). > Hank > > > On Thursday, June 23, 2016 5:18 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > James, > I have attached a solenoid valve design based on Vance's pneumatically > operated top hat ballast valve. It was done quickly & is open comment > & being evolved. > A solenoid is just a coil of wire with an iron core plunger. As long as > the solenoid > & plunger are coated with epoxy or similar this simple design should work. > The solenoid is clamped in place by the two circular plates & the > retaining bolts. > (didn't put thread on the bolts) The neoprene gasket seals on it's seat by > the springs > pressure & air pressure in the ballast tanks. when power is on the > solenoid it > draws the plunger in to it, which pulls the gasket seal open. > A solenoid is easy to make but it may take some experimentation to get the > right gauge of wire & number of windings, so that it opens the valve but > doesn't > heat up excessively. > The other neoprene gaskets shown are for sealing to the hull. > Some sought of gauze needs placing round it to stop foreign matter getting > in the valve seat. > Alan > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 23 08:52:01 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 06:52:01 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Solenoid valve In-Reply-To: References: <1637292298.214647.1466680517640.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1637292298.214647.1466680517640.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <673184414.177068.1466681194865.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <59c3277b-247e-4234-94af-62312ed0d082@email.android.com> I have solved similar problems by using small solenoid valves to control the application of low pressure air (<100 psi) to the exposed valve, which is air actuated. This way, all of the electronics are protected from the outside environment, easily repairable / replaceable, and can be observed for correct function. The air signal from the first valve is then what would pass through the hull, so it would have a safety shutoff at the through hull, and then the second (larger) valve is entirely mechanical in nature and made of materials compatible with the environment. I have used several different versions of this, but the solenoid valves I use most often now are Asco Red Hat Next Generation solenoid valves with 24 VDC coils, because they appear to have the least constant power draw when actuated of all the options I've tried. 1/4" is all you need for air, unless you have a particularly huge second valve that requires a fast actuation time. I do something similar with proportional valves too, using an I/P converter (proportional regulator) to convert 4-20 mA control signals to 0-15 psi pilot air pressure which is sent to a large proportional valve which is exposed to a H2S environment. Sean On June 23, 2016 5:49:13 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hank, >I thought of putting bellows around the plunger & oil filling the >solenoid, >but I would need another set of bellows or something to compensate >for the displaced oil when the plunger retracted. >I Googled to try & find a suitable off the shelf valve but couldn't >find anything. >This design should be fine. It will be corrosion proof & work at any >depth. >I am not sure I like the retaining system of the solenoid & might look >around for >something off the shelf I can adapt. >Alan > >Sent from my iPad > >> On 23/06/2016, at 11:26 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Alan, >> Perhaps an oil filled enclosure could be built around the valve. I >have never potted anything on one of these valves, they go strait from >the box to the sub (ROV). >> Hank >> >> >> On Thursday, June 23, 2016 5:18 AM, Alan James via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> James, >> I have attached a solenoid valve design based on Vance's >pneumatically >> operated top hat ballast valve. It was done quickly & is open comment >& being evolved. >> A solenoid is just a coil of wire with an iron core plunger. As >long as the solenoid >> & plunger are coated with epoxy or similar this simple design should >work. >> The solenoid is clamped in place by the two circular plates & the >retaining bolts. >> (didn't put thread on the bolts) The neoprene gasket seals on it's >seat by the springs >> pressure & air pressure in the ballast tanks. when power is on the >solenoid it >> draws the plunger in to it, which pulls the gasket seal open. >> A solenoid is easy to make but it may take some experimentation to >get the >> right gauge of wire & number of windings, so that it opens the valve >but doesn't >> heat up excessively. >> The other neoprene gaskets shown are for sealing to the hull. >> Some sought of gauze needs placing round it to stop foreign matter >getting >> in the valve seat. >> Alan >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 23 10:21:19 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 14:21:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Solenoid valve In-Reply-To: <59c3277b-247e-4234-94af-62312ed0d082@email.android.com> References: <1637292298.214647.1466680517640.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1637292298.214647.1466680517640.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <673184414.177068.1466681194865.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <59c3277b-247e-4234-94af-62312ed0d082@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1866315028.225894.1466691679659.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I was thinking about electroplating the iron rod to protect it from salt water-then realized that when i took my valve apart to make sure it would work for my?application, ?it is already plated. ?i think a salt water test is in order. ?my valve is brass and plated rod, so it may stand up.Hank On Thursday, June 23, 2016 6:52 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have solved similar problems by using small solenoid valves to control the application of low pressure air (<100 psi) to the exposed valve, which is air actuated.? This way, all of the electronics are protected from the outside environment, easily repairable / replaceable, and can be observed for correct function. The air signal from the first valve is then what would pass through the hull, so it would have a safety shutoff at the through hull, and then the second (larger) valve is entirely mechanical in nature and made of materials compatible with the environment. I have used several different versions of this, but the solenoid valves I use most often now are Asco Red Hat Next Generation solenoid valves with 24 VDC coils, because they appear to have the least constant power draw when actuated of all the options I've tried.? 1/4" is all you nee! d forair, unless you have a particularly huge second valve that requires a fast actuation time. I do something similar with proportional valves too, using an I/P converter (proportional regulator) to convert 4-20 mA control signals to 0-15 psi pilot air pressure which is sent to a large proportional valve which is exposed to a H2S environment.Sean On June 23, 2016 5:49:13 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I thought of putting bellows around the plunger & oil filling the solenoid,but I would need another set of bellows or something to compensatefor the displaced oil when the plunger retracted.I Googled to try & find a suitable off the shelf valve but couldn't find anything.This design should be fine. It will be corrosion proof ?& work at any depth.?I am not sure I like the retaining system of the solenoid & might look around for?something off the shelf I can adapt.Alan Sent from my iPad On 23/06/2016, at 11:26 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Perhaps an?oil filled enclosure could be built around the valve. ?I have never potted anything on one of these valves, they go strait from the box to the sub (ROV).Hank On Thursday, June 23, 2016 5:18 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James,I have attached a solenoid valve?design based on Vance's ?pneumaticallyoperated top hat ballast valve. It was done quickly & is open?comment &?being evolved.?? A solenoid is just a coil of wire with an iron core plunger. As long as the solenoid& plunger are coated with epoxy or similar this simple design should work.The solenoid is clamped in place by the two circular plates & the retaining bolts.(didn't put thread on the bolts) The neoprene gasket seals on it's seat by the springspressure & air pressure in the ballast tanks. when power is on the solenoid itdraws the plunger in to it, which pulls the gasket seal open.A solenoid is easy to make but it may take some experimentation to get the right gauge of wire & number of windings, so that it opens the valve but doesn'theat up excessively.The other neoprene gaskets shown are for sealing to thehull.Some sought of gauze needs placing round it to stop foreign matter gettingin the valve seat. Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 23 12:35:56 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 12:35:56 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Solenoid valve In-Reply-To: References: <1637292298.214647.1466680517640.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1637292298.214647.1466680517640.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <673184414.177068.1466681194865.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Lots of application variables with solenoids which makes it difficult to choose the right one. They have to have enough force to overcome the spring, they draw a relatively large amount of power, can become hot (although likely not an issue in water), and then rust-proofing them. Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 23 16:35:06 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 20:35:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report References: <75526977.430718.1466714106138.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <75526977.430718.1466714106138.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Just got back from diving at my favourite lake and finally all went perfect. ?The sub performs terrific, I will post a couple of video's, the first is short but shows the stopping power of my thrusters. ?man this thing stops good compared to the single prop.I had to remove all the weight I originally added-I guess I will have to start trusting my math because it turns out I was right on. ?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 23 17:12:58 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 17:12:58 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report In-Reply-To: <75526977.430718.1466714106138.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <75526977.430718.1466714106138.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <75526977.430718.1466714106138.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Nothing quick like the "perfect" dive. Good job Hank, you deserve it. ~ Doug S. On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 4:35 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Just got back from diving at my favourite lake and finally all went > perfect. The sub performs terrific, I will post a couple of video's, the > first is short but shows the stopping power of my thrusters. man this > thing stops good compared to the single prop. > I had to remove all the weight I originally added-I guess I will have to > start trusting my math because it turns out I was right on. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 23 17:27:34 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 21:27:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report In-Reply-To: <75526977.430718.1466714106138.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <75526977.430718.1466714106138.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <75526977.430718.1466714106138.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <207428581.550940.1466717254606.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,that's great to hear. Mind you I do appreciate your honesty whenit doesn't go right. We all learn from the problems.Look forward to the dive videos.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 8:35 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report Just got back from diving at my favourite lake and finally all went perfect. ?The sub performs terrific, I will post a couple of video's, the first is short but shows the stopping power of my thrusters. ?man this thing stops good compared to the single prop.I had to remove all the weight I originally added-I guess I will have to start trusting my math because it turns out I was right on. ?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 23 18:36:46 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 22:36:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Solenoid valve In-Reply-To: <59c3277b-247e-4234-94af-62312ed0d082@email.android.com> References: <1637292298.214647.1466680517640.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1637292298.214647.1466680517640.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <673184414.177068.1466681194865.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <59c3277b-247e-4234-94af-62312ed0d082@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1550539615.625789.1466721406834.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Sean, Jon.that is similar to Vance's design, using an air cylinder to actuate the ballast valve,however you have added a?solenoid valve in the system so that?it can be controlled electronically.That requires?the addition of an extra piece of hardware. You could start with something like this air core solenoid (below) or just wrap wire from an oldtransformer round a plastic tube.?Then dunk it in resin, however the wires are insulated anyway so it would be a matter of concentrating on?potting the terminations. Then get an undersized iron rod so it has a sloppy fit, & dunk that in resin.The rod is only moving inside the coil a couple of times every dive, so friction & wearwon't be an issue. You would only need to design it bigger to get the strength you needed,& so that it ran cool. The power consumption would be a non issue as it is onlyrunning for about 30 seconds a couple of times per dive.I made a solenoid valve from an old solenoid & a toilet ball valve. It worked but becausethe solenoid was so small it did heat up quickly.Cheers Alan?? From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 12:52 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Solenoid valve I have solved similar problems by using small solenoid valves to control the application of low pressure air (<100 psi) to the exposed valve, which is air actuated.? This way, all of the electronics are protected from the outside environment, easily repairable / replaceable, and can be observed for correct function. The air signal from the first valve is then what would pass through the hull, so it would have a safety shutoff at the through hull, and then the second (larger) valve is entirely mechanical in nature and made of materials compatible with the environment. I have used several different versions of this, but the solenoid valves I use most often now are Asco Red Hat Next Generation solenoid valves with 24 VDC coils, because they appear to have the least constant power draw when actuated of all the options I've tried.? 1/4" is all you nee! d forair, unless you have a particularly huge second valve that requires a fast actuation time. I do something similar with proportional valves too, using an I/P converter (proportional regulator) to convert 4-20 mA control signals to 0-15 psi pilot air pressure which is sent to a large proportional valve which is exposed to a H2S environment.Sean On June 23, 2016 5:49:13 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I thought of putting bellows around the plunger & oil filling the solenoid,but I would need another set of bellows or something to compensatefor the displaced oil when the plunger retracted.I Googled to try & find a suitable off the shelf valve but couldn't find anything.This design should be fine. It will be corrosion proof ?& work at any depth.?I am not sure I like the retaining system of the solenoid & might look around for?something off the shelf I can adapt.Alan Sent from my iPad On 23/06/2016, at 11:26 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Perhaps an?oil filled enclosure could be built around the valve. ?I have never potted anything on one of these valves, they go strait from the box to the sub (ROV).Hank On Thursday, June 23, 2016 5:18 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James,I have attached a solenoid valve?design based on Vance's ?pneumaticallyoperated top hat ballast valve. It was done quickly & is open?comment &?being evolved.?? A solenoid is just a coil of wire with an iron core plunger. As long as the solenoid& plunger are coated with epoxy or similar this simple design should work.The solenoid is clamped in place by the two circular plates & the retaining bolts.(didn't put thread on the bolts) The neoprene gasket seals on it's seat by the springspressure & air pressure in the ballast tanks. when power is on the solenoid itdraws the plunger in to it, which pulls the gasket seal open.A solenoid is easy to make but it may take some experimentation to get the right gauge of wire & number of windings, so that it opens the valve but doesn'theat up excessively.The other neoprene gaskets shown are for sealing to thehull.Some sought of gauze needs placing round it to stop foreign matter gettingin the valve seat. Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 23 19:15:49 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 23:15:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Solenoid valve In-Reply-To: <1866315028.225894.1466691679659.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1637292298.214647.1466680517640.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1637292298.214647.1466680517640.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <673184414.177068.1466681194865.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <59c3277b-247e-4234-94af-62312ed0d082@email.android.com> <1866315028.225894.1466691679659.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <890151710.614069.1466723749314.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,the iron plunger in my solenoid valves are inside a casing thatthe solenoid fits over, so it is protected. The solenoid valves I have pulled apart all seem to have a smallbi-pass hole that lets air / water in to the back of the valve seat, Ithink I rusted out the spring in one when I got saltwater back up throughmy ballast tank fill line. (will put a one way valve in it). That areain the back of the valve seat seems vulnerable to corrosion & blockage by salt build up. You might be fine in fresh water & myvalves worked in salt water, but I don't think that in salt they will standup in time. You & James have got me started again on the solenoidvalve quest. :)Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 2:21 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Solenoid valve Alan,I was thinking about electroplating the iron rod to protect it from salt water-then realized that when i took my valve apart to make sure it would work for my?application, ?it is already plated. ?i think a salt water test is in order. ?my valve is brass and plated rod, so it may stand up.Hank On Thursday, June 23, 2016 6:52 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have solved similar problems by using small solenoid valves to control the application of low pressure air (<100 psi) to the exposed valve, which is air actuated.? This way, all of the electronics are protected from the outside environment, easily repairable / replaceable, and can be observed for correct function. The air signal from the first valve is then what would pass through the hull, so it would have a safety shutoff at the through hull, and then the second (larger) valve is entirely mechanical in nature and made of materials compatible with the environment. I have used several different versions of this, but the solenoid valves I use most often now are Asco Red Hat Next Generation solenoid valves with 24 VDC coils, because they appear to have the least constant power draw when actuated of all the options I've tried.? 1/4" is all you nee! d forair, unless you have a particularly huge second valve that requires a fast actuation time. I do something similar with proportional valves too, using an I/P converter (proportional regulator) to convert 4-20 mA control signals to 0-15 psi pilot air pressure which is sent to a large proportional valve which is exposed to a H2S environment.Sean On June 23, 2016 5:49:13 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I thought of putting bellows around the plunger & oil filling the solenoid,but I would need another set of bellows or something to compensatefor the displaced oil when the plunger retracted.I Googled to try & find a suitable off the shelf valve but couldn't find anything.This design should be fine. It will be corrosion proof ?& work at any depth.?I am not sure I like the retaining system of the solenoid & might look around for?something off the shelf I can adapt.Alan Sent from my iPad On 23/06/2016, at 11:26 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Perhaps an?oil filled enclosure could be built around the valve. ?I have never potted anything on one of these valves, they go strait from the box to the sub (ROV).Hank On Thursday, June 23, 2016 5:18 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James,I have attached a solenoid valve?design based on Vance's ?pneumaticallyoperated top hat ballast valve. It was done quickly & is open?comment &?being evolved.?? A solenoid is just a coil of wire with an iron core plunger. As long as the solenoid& plunger are coated with epoxy or similar this simple design should work.The solenoid is clamped in place by the two circular plates & the retaining bolts.(didn't put thread on the bolts) The neoprene gasket seals on it's seat by the springspressure & air pressure in the ballast tanks. when power is on the solenoid itdraws the plunger in to it, which pulls the gasket seal open.A solenoid is easy to make but it may take some experimentation to get the right gauge of wire & number of windings, so that it opens the valve but doesn'theat up excessively.The other neoprene gaskets shown are for sealing to thehull.Some sought of gauze needs placing round it to stop foreign matter gettingin the valve seat. Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 23 20:08:40 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 00:08:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: bottom cruise In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <181541996.542091.1466726920283.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Here is a very short video that shows how well Gamma cruises and stops. ?I have lost my free video converter program, so the second 10 min long video will have to wait until I figure out how to convert it to mp4 for youtube. ?Hank On Thursday, June 23, 2016 6:06 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCahD9_PuLM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2016-06-23 at 6.06 PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 9809 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 24 00:04:10 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 21:04:10 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report In-Reply-To: <75526977.430718.1466714106138.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <75526977.430718.1466714106138.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <75526977.430718.1466714106138.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001d1cdcd$77353320$659f9960$@telus.net> Well done, Hank. The video shows the stopping power well. Your sub is incredible! Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 1:35 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report Just got back from diving at my favourite lake and finally all went perfect. The sub performs terrific, I will post a couple of video's, the first is short but shows the stopping power of my thrusters. man this thing stops good compared to the single prop. I had to remove all the weight I originally added-I guess I will have to start trusting my math because it turns out I was right on. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 24 07:48:53 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 11:48:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: dive video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1479310994.672333.1466768933642.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks' guys!Here is a longer version of the last video, terrible viz but it shows how well Gamma handles. ?I will get organized to do some deep testing now. ?My?favourite lake is to dirty now. ?Hank On Friday, June 24, 2016 5:39 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xGtzLaghlo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2016-06-24 at 5.38 AM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 8816 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 24 08:34:07 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 08:34:07 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: dive video In-Reply-To: <1479310994.672333.1466768933642.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1479310994.672333.1466768933642.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Very nice Hank! Was that just perfect buoyancy or were you running a vertical thruster to stay there? Best, Alec On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 7:48 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks' guys! > Here is a longer version of the last video, terrible viz but it shows how > well Gamma handles. I will get organized to do some deep testing now. > My favourite lake is to dirty now. > Hank > > > On Friday, June 24, 2016 5:39 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xGtzLaghlo > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2016-06-24 at 5.38 AM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 8816 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 24 10:19:50 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 14:19:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: dive video In-Reply-To: References: <1479310994.672333.1466768933642.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1789346579.747260.1466777990555.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,It was close to perfect buoyancy, I give it a shot of vertical thruster here and there, but that could be to follow terrain. ?Hank On Friday, June 24, 2016 6:34 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Very nice Hank! Was that just perfect buoyancy or were you running a vertical thruster to stay there?? Best, Alec On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 7:48 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks' guys!Here is a longer version of the last video, terrible viz but it shows how well Gamma handles.? I will get organized to do some deep testing now.? My?favourite lake is to dirty now. ?Hank On Friday, June 24, 2016 5:39 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xGtzLaghlo _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2016-06-24 at 5.38 AM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 8816 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 24 10:55:33 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 09:55:33 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: dive video In-Reply-To: <1789346579.747260.1466777990555.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1479310994.672333.1466768933642.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1789346579.747260.1466777990555.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks for posting the video hank. Boat seems to be behaving nicely. Can't believe you are whining about visibility at 5 ft! Your worst day of visibility corresponds to my best day. Cliff On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 9:19 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, > It was close to perfect buoyancy, I give it a shot of vertical thruster > here and there, but that could be to follow terrain. > Hank > > > On Friday, June 24, 2016 6:34 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Very nice Hank! Was that just perfect buoyancy or were you running a > vertical thruster to stay there? > > Best, > > Alec > > On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 7:48 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks' guys! > Here is a longer version of the last video, terrible viz but it shows how > well Gamma handles. I will get organized to do some deep testing now. > My favourite lake is to dirty now. > Hank > > > On Friday, June 24, 2016 5:39 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xGtzLaghlo > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2016-06-24 at 5.38 AM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 8816 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 24 12:01:36 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 16:01:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: dive video In-Reply-To: References: <1479310994.672333.1466768933642.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1789346579.747260.1466777990555.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1771732929.815280.1466784096349.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,What were you thinking building a sub in Texas, your as bad as Scott hahaHank On Friday, June 24, 2016 8:55 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for posting the video hank.? Boat seems to be behaving nicely.? Can't believe you are whining about visibility at 5 ft!? Your worst day of visibility corresponds to my best day. Cliff On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 9:19 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,It was close to perfect buoyancy, I give it a shot of vertical thruster here and there, but that could be to follow terrain. ?Hank On Friday, June 24, 2016 6:34 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Very nice Hank! Was that just perfect buoyancy or were you running a vertical thruster to stay there?? Best, Alec On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 7:48 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks' guys!Here is a longer version of the last video, terrible viz but it shows how well Gamma handles.? I will get organized to do some deep testing now.? My?favourite lake is to dirty now. ?Hank On Friday, June 24, 2016 5:39 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xGtzLaghlo _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2016-06-24 at 5.38 AM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 8816 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 24 20:15:24 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 00:15:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compas References: <1292483697.1000638.1466813724464.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1292483697.1000638.1466813724464.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Can anyone recommend a compass that will work outside my sub, preferably one that has a proven track record.Thanks'Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 25 00:29:00 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 21:29:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft seals Message-ID: <20160624212900.761DF58A@m0087798.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 25 02:44:30 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 23:44:30 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft seals Message-ID: <0mf2ktmojp6hjr68bu1seup0.1466837070177@email.android.com> Brian, From my experience ?those shaft seals can't ?handle any real pressure and wouldn't ?work for submarine service, unless you wanted to test your escape system. Keith? Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/24/16 9:29 PM (GMT-08:00) To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft seals Hi All,???????????????? I was wondering if anyone is familiar with the PSS shaft seal system.?? I've been working on my support boat? ( 30' Islander sailboat)? , I'm about ready to haul it out for a bottom painting job and I'm planning on replacing the shaft seal at the same time with the PSS shaft seal.?? I think it might have some application to a sub motor shaft seal except it would have to be modified.? The seal occurs between a flat carbon piece and a flat stainless piece.? On a sailboat of course there is hardly any pressure so it a different situation.? But the part that intrigues me is the stainless riding on the carbon as the point of friction for the turning shaft.? This would eliminate using O rings to make the seal , where the o rings could fail.? There would need to be a certain amount of pressure applied to the carbon and stainless pieced but assuming the motors are pressure compensated or oil filled I don't think that would be an issue.?? As I haven't entered the "motor phase " of my sub I haven't followed the seal discussions too intently so I may be all wet about this ( can only do one thing at a time!)? ?Anyway , check out these units, I'd be curious if anyone thinks they may have an application.??http://www.shaftseal.com/en/about/installation_videos??Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 25 03:36:14 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 00:36:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft seals Message-ID: <20160625003614.761D4845@m0087797.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 25 06:39:54 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 10:39:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft seals In-Reply-To: <20160624212900.761DF58A@m0087798.ppops.net> References: <20160624212900.761DF58A@m0087798.ppops.net> Message-ID: <957744816.1137463.1466851194721.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,The boat shaft seal is a low pressure version of a mechanical seal. ?Just google mechanical seal or cartridge seal. ?That is what I have in my thrusters-if your building a thruster housing with some size to it they are ideal. ?The smallest I have seen are what I have at 7\8 shaft size and 1 1\8 seat size. ?If your building from scratch, they would be the way to go. ?I bought my seals on?eBay as new old stock for 200 dollars for the pair. ?I would find seals like that for cheap and build the shaft etc to suit the seals. ?No need for oil filling or pressure compensating of any type with these seals.Hank On Friday, June 24, 2016 10:29 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,???????????????? I was wondering if anyone is familiar with the PSS shaft seal system.?? I've been working on my support boat? ( 30' Islander sailboat)? , I'm about ready to haul it out for a bottom painting job and I'm planning on replacing the shaft seal at the same time with the PSS shaft seal.?? I think it might have some application to a sub motor shaft seal except it would have to be modified.? The seal occurs between a flat carbon piece and a flat stainless piece.? On a sailboat of course there is hardly any pressure so it a different situation.? But the part that intrigues me is the stainless riding on the carbon as the point of friction for the turning shaft.? This would eliminate using O rings to make the seal , where the o rings could fail.? There would need to be a certain amount of pressure applied to the carbon and stainless pieced but assuming the motors are pressure compensated or oil filled I don't think that would be an issue.?? As I haven't entered the "motor phase " of my sub I haven't followed the seal discussions too intently so I may be all wet about this ( can only do one thing at a time!)? ?Anyway , check out these units, I'd be curious if anyone thinks they may have an application.??http://www.shaftseal.com/en/about/installation_videos??Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 25 16:37:24 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 20:37:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass References: <2079461091.1233014.1466887044755.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2079461091.1233014.1466887044755.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Okay, weird stuff here, my compass works fine in the shop and in a pail of water but when it hits the lake it is stuck. ?I took it apart and the rubber membrane is perfect, there is no air in the little dome. ?So what gives, is it scared to go in the deep lake?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 25 23:55:34 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 20:55:34 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] progress report Message-ID: <20160625205534.7618758E@m0086238.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 26 01:08:24 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 05:08:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] progress report In-Reply-To: <20160625205534.7618758E@m0086238.ppops.net> References: <20160625205534.7618758E@m0086238.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1325160114.1621687.1466917704128.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,if you wanted to save money you could just buy the transducer?& mount it on?your sub& take the display module from your boat whenever you needed it.I am waiting to hear back from Navico about?the suitability of their?forward?scanning transducerwith regard to depth rating or it's ability to shoot through a fiberglass enclosure.This would be a good option if it works out, as it gives collision avoidance at a reasonable price.I don't think there would be any advantage scanning upward, over a pressure gauge that gives youdepth readings. Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: PSubs Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 3:55 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] progress report Just bought a Garmin echoMap Chirp 44dv? mapping gps and sonar for my sailboat?, I'm thinking?maybe getting another one for the sub !?? I wonder if you had the transducer on a swivel what the image would look like pointing to the surface ???https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/on-the-water/fishfindergpscombos/echomap-chirp-44dv/prod529866.html?Also, I've got another sailboat keel ( solid lead ! ) lined up to get for next week !?? It's off of a 29' Ericson, it's a pity, this boat is being demolished because they didn't pay their slip fee !? Nothing wrong with the boat.? ?It's probably a good 3000 lbs of lead !? .50/lb??Cheers,?Brian? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 26 02:38:33 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 23:38:33 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] progress report Message-ID: <20160625233833.761DDAA2@m0087798.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 26 03:16:37 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 07:16:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] progress report In-Reply-To: <20160625233833.761DDAA2@m0087798.ppops.net> References: <20160625233833.761DDAA2@m0087798.ppops.net> Message-ID: <322989168.1646986.1466925397631.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Yes it would & it might show a boat hull if it just happenedto be within it's cone, but it seems an expensive, less reliable& more difficult option to set up than a pressure gauge, which would also tell youwhat depth you are. I have mentioned this idea, but will repeat it.... If you build a small view portabout 2" diameter & place a fiberglass disk about 1/2" in it, you could mount your transducer on the inside of your hull & "shoot through" the fiberglass.Google "shoot through hull transducer" if you are interested.Cheers Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] progress report Alan,??? What do you mean "pressure gauge"? , wouldn't the sonar bounce off the surface of the water??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] progress report Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 05:08:24 +0000 (UTC) Brian,if you wanted to save money you could just buy the transducer?& mount it on?your sub& take the display module from your boat whenever you needed it.I am waiting to hear back from Navico about?the suitability of their?forward?scanning transducerwith regard to depth rating or it's ability to shoot through a fiberglass enclosure.This would be a good option if it works out, as it gives collision avoidance at a reasonable price.I don't think there would be any advantage scanning upward, over a pressure gauge that gives youdepth readings. Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: PSubs Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 3:55 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] progress report Just bought a Garmin echoMap Chirp 44dv? mapping gps and sonar for my sailboat?, I'm thinking?maybe getting another one for the sub !?? I wonder if you had the transducer on a swivel what the image would look like pointing to the surface ???https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/on-the-water/fishfindergpscombos/echomap-chirp-44dv/prod529866.html?Also, I've got another sailboat keel ( solid lead ! ) lined up to get for next week !?? It's off of a 29' Ericson, it's a pity, this boat is being demolished because they didn't pay their slip fee !? Nothing wrong with the boat.? ?It's probably a good 3000 lbs of lead !? .50/lb??Cheers,?Brian? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 26 04:17:37 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 01:17:37 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] progress report Message-ID: <20160626011737.761DDB7C@m0087798.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 26 19:11:37 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 23:11:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass References: <1123524059.1467581.1466982697804.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1123524059.1467581.1466982697804.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I am going to try to make a gyro compass, looks doable. ?I don't care about what direction I am going-I just want to go in a strait line. ?I will point the sub in the direction I want to go at the surface, then turn on the gyro and sink. ? Then I can just follow the gyro.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 26 20:16:04 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 17:16:04 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Message-ID: Hank,? Try using a gyro compass ( or atifical horizon) from an aircraft. They sre either air, vaccum or electric ?powered. Keith? Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/26/16 4:11 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass I am going to try to make a gyro compass, looks doable. ?I don't care about what direction I am going-I just want to go in a strait line. ?I will point the sub in the direction I want to go at the surface, then turn on the gyro and sink. ? Then I can just follow the gyro.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 26 20:21:38 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 00:21:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <921451499.1586847.1466986898612.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Kieth,My understanding is the aircraft units are noisy, I assume that is the air units. ?They are hard to find in guaranteed working condition for a price that works for me. ?If you know of any for a descent price-please let me know.Hank On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:16 PM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? Try using a gyro compass ( or atifical horizon) from an aircraft. They sre either air, vaccum or electric ?powered. Keith? Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/26/16 4:11 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass I am going to try to make a gyro compass, looks doable. ?I don't care about what direction I am going-I just want to go in a strait line. ?I will point the sub in the direction I want to go at the surface, then turn on the gyro and sink. ? Then I can just follow the gyro.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 27 05:34:29 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 10:34:29 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compas In-Reply-To: <1292483697.1000638.1466813724464.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1292483697.1000638.1466813724464.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1292483697.1000638.1466813724464.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank. I thought you had bought the same one as me? Has it failed? On Saturday, 25 June 2016, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Can anyone recommend a compass that will work outside my sub, preferably > one that has a proven track record. > Thanks' > Hank > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 27 05:49:54 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 09:49:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compas In-Reply-To: References: <1292483697.1000638.1466813724464.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1292483697.1000638.1466813724464.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1039650140.1670926.1467020994848.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> James I went with a new Ritchie,?exactly the same as what came with Gamma. ?Maybe I should have bought one like yours. ? It does not work at all- I am starting to think there may be minerals in the area that screw it up. ?We have a lot of iron in the rock here-espetially Kootenay Lake and that is where I will end up with Gamma. ?So I should figure out a compass that does not rely on magnets.Hank On Monday, June 27, 2016 3:34 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank.? I thought you had bought the same one as me?? Has it failed? On Saturday, 25 June 2016, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Can anyone recommend a compass that will work outside my sub, preferably one that has a proven track record.Thanks'Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 27 06:37:13 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 10:37:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass In-Reply-To: <921451499.1586847.1466986898612.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <921451499.1586847.1466986898612.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <251573837.1654981.1467023833664.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Kieth,I stand corrected, a turn and bank indicator is just the ticket and tons of them on?eBay for cheap. ?I was focusing on compass only, but these indicators are much cheaper and more available. ?Thanks' for the tipHank On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:25 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Kieth,My understanding is the aircraft units are noisy, I assume that is the air units. ?They are hard to find in guaranteed working condition for a price that works for me. ?If you know of any for a descent price-please let me know.Hank On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:16 PM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? Try using a gyro compass ( or atifical horizon) from an aircraft. They sre either air, vaccum or electric ?powered. Keith? Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/26/16 4:11 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass I am going to try to make a gyro compass, looks doable. ?I don't care about what direction I am going-I just want to go in a strait line. ?I will point the sub in the direction I want to go at the surface, then turn on the gyro and sink. ? Then I can just follow the gyro.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 27 07:10:54 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 11:10:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass In-Reply-To: <251573837.1654981.1467023833664.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <921451499.1586847.1466986898612.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <251573837.1654981.1467023833664.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1985856969.2060935.1467025854699.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank, why would you want a turn & bank indicator above some sought of compass?There are a multitude of inexpensive underwater compasses that scuba divers use,although they may be a bit small to be read at a distance.?Possibly there is someissue with the compression of the oil stopping?your compass from functioning?Mounting the compass outside the hull seems to be standard practice & I haven'theard of any failing. Perhaps someone with previous issues with them could comment.Alan? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Kieth,I stand corrected, a turn and bank indicator is just the ticket and tons of them on?eBay for cheap. ?I was focusing on compass only, but these indicators are much cheaper and more available. ?Thanks' for the tipHank On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:25 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Kieth,My understanding is the aircraft units are noisy, I assume that is the air units. ?They are hard to find in guaranteed working condition for a price that works for me. ?If you know of any for a descent price-please let me know.Hank On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:16 PM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? Try using a gyro compass ( or atifical horizon) from an aircraft. They sre either air, vaccum or electric ?powered. Keith? Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/26/16 4:11 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass I am going to try to make a gyro compass, looks doable. ?I don't care about what direction I am going-I just want to go in a strait line. ?I will point the sub in the direction I want to go at the surface, then turn on the gyro and sink. ? Then I can just follow the gyro.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 27 07:26:50 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 11:26:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass In-Reply-To: <1985856969.2060935.1467025854699.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <921451499.1586847.1466986898612.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <251573837.1654981.1467023833664.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1985856969.2060935.1467025854699.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55797707.1699018.1467026810283.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I took my compass apart and it is perfect, it works perfect in my shop etc. ?I put it in the lake and it is stuck on N most of the time. ?Occasionally it will move. I think there is some mineral interference or an old sunken UFO messing with it. ?Hank On Monday, June 27, 2016 5:11 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, why would you want a turn & bank indicator above some sought of compass?There are a multitude of inexpensive underwater compasses that scuba divers use,although they may be a bit small to be read at a distance.?Possibly there is someissue with the compression of the oil stopping?your compass from functioning?Mounting the compass outside the hull seems to be standard practice & I haven'theard of any failing. Perhaps someone with previous issues with them could comment.Alan? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Kieth,I stand corrected, a turn and bank indicator is just the ticket and tons of them on?eBay for cheap. ?I was focusing on compass only, but these indicators are much cheaper and more available. ?Thanks' for the tipHank On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:25 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Kieth,My understanding is the aircraft units are noisy, I assume that is the air units. ?They are hard to find in guaranteed working condition for a price that works for me. ?If you know of any for a descent price-please let me know.Hank On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:16 PM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? Try using a gyro compass ( or atifical horizon) from an aircraft. They sre either air, vaccum or electric ?powered. Keith? Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/26/16 4:11 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass I am going to try to make a gyro compass, looks doable. ?I don't care about what direction I am going-I just want to go in a strait line. ?I will point the sub in the direction I want to go at the surface, then turn on the gyro and sink. ? Then I can just follow the gyro.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 27 08:07:11 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 14:07:11 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass In-Reply-To: <1985856969.2060935.1467025854699.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <921451499.1586847.1466986898612.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <251573837.1654981.1467023833664.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1985856969.2060935.1467025854699.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <056b01d1d06c$6f5c7270$4e155750$@nl> Hank, Alan A turn indicator can be useful; on a flat seafloor you can make a 90 deg turn without noticing. The fluxgate compass seems to slow to prevent this. The gyro compass is quicker but get inaccurate with time. Regards, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 27 juni 2016 13:11 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Hank, why would you want a turn & bank indicator above some sought of compass? There are a multitude of inexpensive underwater compasses that scuba divers use, although they may be a bit small to be read at a distance. Possibly there is some issue with the compression of the oil stopping your compass from functioning? Mounting the compass outside the hull seems to be standard practice & I haven't heard of any failing. Perhaps someone with previous issues with them could comment. Alan _____ From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Kieth, I stand corrected, a turn and bank indicator is just the ticket and tons of them on eBay for cheap. I was focusing on compass only, but these indicators are much cheaper and more available. Thanks' for the tip Hank On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:25 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Kieth, My understanding is the aircraft units are noisy, I assume that is the air units. They are hard to find in guaranteed working condition for a price that works for me. If you know of any for a descent price-please let me know. Hank On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:16 PM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Try using a gyro compass ( or atifical horizon) from an aircraft. They sre either air, vaccum or electric powered. Keith Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/26/16 4:11 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass I am going to try to make a gyro compass, looks doable. I don't care about what direction I am going-I just want to go in a strait line. I will point the sub in the direction I want to go at the surface, then turn on the gyro and sink. Then I can just follow the gyro. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 27 09:48:48 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 15:48:48 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1467035328322.709045.b2e5614302bd579d9f94e2f384d5dc86bc0093f8@spica.telekom.de> Air or vaccum power will not work in a sub. Try a electric one. 24 Volt or 12 V are rare - normaly 400 volt and high frequency - you need a transformer. But notice: The get out of course after 0,5 - 2 hours. And will be normaly re-adjust by a magnetic one in a aircraft. Ebay cheaps are often out of service / out of course. The normaly run but get quick out of course. Units with work proper certificate (Airworthy) are much more expensive. Buy three and select the best working - sale the rest again. vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Datum: 2016-06-27T02:18:46+0200 Von: "k6fee via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Hank, Try using a gyro compass ( or atifical horizon) from an aircraft. They sre either air, vaccum or electric powered. Keith Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/26/16 4:11 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass I am going to try to make a gyro compass, looks doable. I don't care about what direction I am going-I just want to go in a strait line. I will point the sub in the direction I want to go at the surface, then turn on the gyro and sink. Then I can just follow the gyro. Hank ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 27 10:05:29 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 08:05:29 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass In-Reply-To: <1467035328322.709045.b2e5614302bd579d9f94e2f384d5dc86bc0093f8@spica.telekom.de> References: <1467035328322.709045.b2e5614302bd579d9f94e2f384d5dc86bc0093f8@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <0902b4ad-b9f9-4027-938f-81e60839db5d@email.android.com> A Raytheon Standard 22 Gyrocompass is 24 VDC. Crazy expensive though. Hank - does the problem manifest itself at depth under all circumstances, or only in close proximity to the bottom? I'd be inclined to believe that it is either compass malfunction under pressure, or influence of your vessel throwing it out, rather than local magnetic anomaly. The latter is certainly possible though. Where is it mounted, and do your thrusters or any other operating equipment have an influence on it? Sean On June 27, 2016 7:48:48 AM MDT, "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: > >Air or vaccum power will not work in a sub. >Try a electric one. >24 Volt or 12 V are rare - normaly 400 volt and high frequency - you >need a >transformer. > >But notice: > >The get out of course after 0,5 - 2 hours. And will be normaly >re-adjust by >a magnetic one in a aircraft. > >Ebay cheaps are often out of service / out of course. The normaly run >but >get quick out of course. >Units with work proper certificate (Airworthy) are much more expensive. > >Buy three and select the best working - sale the rest again. > >vbr Carsten > > > > > >-----Original-Nachricht----- >Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass >Datum: 2016-06-27T02:18:46+0200 >Von: "k6fee via Personal_Submersibles" > >An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > > > >Hank, > >Try using a gyro compass ( or atifical horizon) from an aircraft. They >sre >either air, vaccum or electric powered. > >Keith > > > >Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > >-------- Original message -------- >From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > >Date: 6/26/16 4:11 PM (GMT-08:00) >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass > >I am going to try to make a gyro compass, looks doable. I don't care >about >what direction I am going-I just want to go in a strait line. I will >point >the sub in the direction I want to go at the surface, then turn on the >gyro >and sink. Then I can just follow the gyro. >Hank >? > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 27 10:19:56 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 16:19:56 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass In-Reply-To: <1467035328322.709045.b2e5614302bd579d9f94e2f384d5dc86bc0093f8@spica.telekom.de> References: <1467035328322.709045.b2e5614302bd579d9f94e2f384d5dc86bc0093f8@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <05a001d1d07f$011dcfd0$03596f70$@nl> I have a 28 VDC compact gyro from a aircraft. Runs on 24 vdc tough. Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 27 juni 2016 15:49 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Air or vaccum power will not work in a sub. Try a electric one. 24 Volt or 12 V are rare - normaly 400 volt and high frequency - you need a transformer. But notice: The get out of course after 0,5 - 2 hours. And will be normaly re-adjust by a magnetic one in a aircraft. Ebay cheaps are often out of service / out of course. The normaly run but get quick out of course. Units with work proper certificate (Airworthy) are much more expensive. Buy three and select the best working - sale the rest again. vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Datum: 2016-06-27T02:18:46+0200 Von: "k6fee via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Hank, Try using a gyro compass ( or atifical horizon) from an aircraft. They sre either air, vaccum or electric powered. Keith Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/26/16 4:11 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass I am going to try to make a gyro compass, looks doable. I don't care about what direction I am going-I just want to go in a strait line. I will point the sub in the direction I want to go at the surface, then turn on the gyro and sink. Then I can just follow the gyro. Hank ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 27 10:58:24 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 14:58:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: cumpass In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1858407488.1824816.1467039504266.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Sean,Here is picture I took last week sitting in 10 feet of water having lunch and watching the spawning fish. ?Note the compass heading at N when I am actually pointing west. ? The compass is in perfect condition, and works in the shop with all (Three ) electric systems turned on LOL. ? ? I am sure the gyro will go out of true in time but what choice do I have. ?I want to sink at the dock and travel submerged for 3Km instead of travelling at the surface for 3KM to get to my dive ?area. ?Hank On Monday, June 27, 2016 8:51 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0376.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 15010 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 27 11:22:46 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 09:22:46 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: cumpass In-Reply-To: <1858407488.1824816.1467039504266.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1858407488.1824816.1467039504266.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <452618cd-0c5c-4905-9963-ff2abcdb4de2@email.android.com> So have you confirmed that it is not a depth related issue? One possible solution is an electronic (MEMS) heading reference system, which incorporates orthogonal accelerometers, magnetometers and rate gyros to produce a gyro-stabilized heading signal. Such an instrument would not need to be in your immediate field of view and could instead be mounted as far as reasonably practicable from ferrous structures and magnetic influences. You would need a display of some sort to convert the electric signal to a visual readout though. Sean On June 27, 2016 8:58:24 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi Sean,Here is picture I took last week sitting in 10 feet of water >having lunch and watching the spawning fish. ?Note the compass heading >at N when I am actually pointing west. ? The compass is in perfect >condition, and works in the shop with all (Three ) electric systems >turned on LOL. ? ? I am sure the gyro will go out of true in time but >what choice do I have. ?I want to sink at the dock and travel submerged >for 3Km instead of travelling at the surface for 3KM to get to my dive >?area. ?Hank > > On Monday, June 27, 2016 8:51 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 27 13:54:22 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 17:54:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: cumpass In-Reply-To: <452618cd-0c5c-4905-9963-ff2abcdb4de2@email.android.com> References: <1858407488.1824816.1467039504266.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <452618cd-0c5c-4905-9963-ff2abcdb4de2@email.android.com> Message-ID: <810111391.1951921.1467050062260.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Sean,The compass works in a bucket of water but not in Premier Lake at all, I don't have a way to test it at depth other thank on or in my sub. ?If it does not work at 10 feet then I don't think it is the compass. ? I think a gyro will do the trick, it only?has to keep me on coarse for an hr or so. ?The?electronic device you mention is likely out of by budget range at the moment. ?Hank On Monday, June 27, 2016 9:23 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: So have you confirmed that it is not a depth related issue?One possible solution is an electronic (MEMS) heading reference system, which incorporates orthogonal accelerometers, magnetometers and rate gyros to produce a gyro-stabilized heading signal. Such an instrument would not need to be in your immediate field of view and could instead be mounted as far as reasonably practicable from ferrous structures and magnetic influences. You would need a display of some sort to convert the electric signal to a visual readout though.Sean On June 27, 2016 8:58:24 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Sean,Here is picture I took last week sitting in 10 feet of water having lunch and watching the spawning fish. ?Note the compass heading at N when I am actually pointing west. ? The compass is in perfect condition, and works in the shop with all (Three ) electric systems turned on LOL. ? ? I am sure the gyro will go out of true in time but what choice do I have. ?I want to sink at the dock and travel submerged for 3Km instead of travelling at the surface for 3KM to get to my dive ?area. ?Hank ! On Monday, June 27, 2016 8:51 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 27 14:11:49 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 18:11:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass In-Reply-To: <05a001d1d07f$011dcfd0$03596f70$@nl> References: <1467035328322.709045.b2e5614302bd579d9f94e2f384d5dc86bc0093f8@spica.telekom.de> <05a001d1d07f$011dcfd0$03596f70$@nl> Message-ID: <203923568.1898394.1467051109028.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Emile,Have you tried your gyro in a sub?Hank On Monday, June 27, 2016 8:20 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv5690473010 #yiv5690473010 -- _filtered #yiv5690473010 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5690473010 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5690473010 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5690473010 {}#yiv5690473010 #yiv5690473010 p.yiv5690473010MsoNormal, #yiv5690473010 li.yiv5690473010MsoNormal, #yiv5690473010 div.yiv5690473010MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv5690473010 a:link, #yiv5690473010 span.yiv5690473010MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5690473010 a:visited, #yiv5690473010 span.yiv5690473010MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5690473010 p {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv5690473010 p.yiv5690473010MsoAcetate, #yiv5690473010 li.yiv5690473010MsoAcetate, #yiv5690473010 div.yiv5690473010MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv5690473010 span.yiv5690473010E-mailStijl18 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv5690473010 span.yiv5690473010BallontekstChar {}#yiv5690473010 .yiv5690473010MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv5690473010 {margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}#yiv5690473010 div.yiv5690473010WordSection1 {}#yiv5690473010 I have a 28 VDC compact gyro ?from a aircraft. Runs on 24 vdc tough. ?Emile ?Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 27 juni 2016 15:49 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass ??Air or vaccum power will not work in a sub. Try a electric one. 24 Volt or 12 V are rare - normaly 400 volt and high frequency - you need a transformer. ?But notice: ?The get out of course after 0,5 - 2 hours. And will be normaly re-adjust by a magnetic one in a aircraft. ?Ebay cheaps are often out of service / out of course. The normaly run but get quick out of course. Units with work proper certificate (Airworthy) are much more expensive. ?Buy three and select the best working - sale the rest again. ?vbr Carsten ?????-----Original-Nachricht-----Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compassDatum: 2016-06-27T02:18:46+0200Von: "k6fee via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ???Hank,??Try using a gyro compass ( or atifical horizon) from an aircraft. They sre either air, vaccum or electric ?powered.?Keith????Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone?-------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/26/16 4:11 PM (GMT-08:00)To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass?I am going to try to make a gyro compass, looks doable. ?I don't care about what direction I am going-I just want to go in a strait line. ?I will point the sub in the direction I want to go at the surface, then turn on the gyro and sink. ? Then I can just follow the gyro.Hank? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 27 14:51:32 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 20:51:32 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass In-Reply-To: <203923568.1898394.1467051109028.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1467035328322.709045.b2e5614302bd579d9f94e2f384d5dc86bc0093f8@spica.telekom.de> <05a001d1d07f$011dcfd0$03596f70$@nl> <203923568.1898394.1467051109028.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003c01d1d0a4$ec043e10$c40cba30$@nl> Hank, Yes it is build in. It is about 100 mm in diameter and abt. 200 mm deep. Noise level is low. Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 27 juni 2016 20:12 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Emile, Have you tried your gyro in a sub? Hank On Monday, June 27, 2016 8:20 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: I have a 28 VDC compact gyro from a aircraft. Runs on 24 vdc tough. Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 27 juni 2016 15:49 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Air or vaccum power will not work in a sub. Try a electric one. 24 Volt or 12 V are rare - normaly 400 volt and high frequency - you need a transformer. But notice: The get out of course after 0,5 - 2 hours. And will be normaly re-adjust by a magnetic one in a aircraft. Ebay cheaps are often out of service / out of course. The normaly run but get quick out of course. Units with work proper certificate (Airworthy) are much more expensive. Buy three and select the best working - sale the rest again. vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Datum: 2016-06-27T02:18:46+0200 Von: "k6fee via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Hank, Try using a gyro compass ( or atifical horizon) from an aircraft. They sre either air, vaccum or electric powered. Keith Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/26/16 4:11 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass I am going to try to make a gyro compass, looks doable. I don't care about what direction I am going-I just want to go in a strait line. I will point the sub in the direction I want to go at the surface, then turn on the gyro and sink. Then I can just follow the gyro. Hank ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 27 15:45:41 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 19:45:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass In-Reply-To: <003c01d1d0a4$ec043e10$c40cba30$@nl> References: <1467035328322.709045.b2e5614302bd579d9f94e2f384d5dc86bc0093f8@spica.telekom.de> <05a001d1d07f$011dcfd0$03596f70$@nl> <203923568.1898394.1467051109028.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <003c01d1d0a4$ec043e10$c40cba30$@nl> Message-ID: <528723629.1921954.1467056741461.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Emile,I will have to have a little sticker?made of Gamma to go over the little airplane on the turn indicator. ?;-)Hank On Monday, June 27, 2016 12:51 PM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv5158470235 #yiv5158470235 -- _filtered #yiv5158470235 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5158470235 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5158470235 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5158470235 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv5158470235 #yiv5158470235 p.yiv5158470235MsoNormal, #yiv5158470235 li.yiv5158470235MsoNormal, #yiv5158470235 div.yiv5158470235MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv5158470235 a:link, #yiv5158470235 span.yiv5158470235MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5158470235 a:visited, #yiv5158470235 span.yiv5158470235MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5158470235 p {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv5158470235 p.yiv5158470235MsoAcetate, #yiv5158470235 li.yiv5158470235MsoAcetate, #yiv5158470235 div.yiv5158470235MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv5158470235 p.yiv5158470235msoacetate, #yiv5158470235 li.yiv5158470235msoacetate, #yiv5158470235 div.yiv5158470235msoacetate {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv5158470235 p.yiv5158470235msonormal, #yiv5158470235 li.yiv5158470235msonormal, #yiv5158470235 div.yiv5158470235msonormal {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv5158470235 p.yiv5158470235msochpdefault, #yiv5158470235 li.yiv5158470235msochpdefault, #yiv5158470235 div.yiv5158470235msochpdefault {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv5158470235 span.yiv5158470235msohyperlink {}#yiv5158470235 span.yiv5158470235msohyperlinkfollowed {}#yiv5158470235 span.yiv5158470235e-mailstijl18 {}#yiv5158470235 p.yiv5158470235msonormal1, #yiv5158470235 li.yiv5158470235msonormal1, #yiv5158470235 div.yiv5158470235msonormal1 {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv5158470235 span.yiv5158470235msohyperlink1 {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5158470235 span.yiv5158470235msohyperlinkfollowed1 {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5158470235 p.yiv5158470235msoacetate1, #yiv5158470235 li.yiv5158470235msoacetate1, #yiv5158470235 div.yiv5158470235msoacetate1 {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv5158470235 span.yiv5158470235e-mailstijl181 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv5158470235 p.yiv5158470235msochpdefault1, #yiv5158470235 li.yiv5158470235msochpdefault1, #yiv5158470235 div.yiv5158470235msochpdefault1 {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv5158470235 span.yiv5158470235E-mailStijl30 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv5158470235 span.yiv5158470235BallontekstChar {}#yiv5158470235 .yiv5158470235MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv5158470235 {margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}#yiv5158470235 div.yiv5158470235WordSection1 {}#yiv5158470235 Hank, ?Yes it is build in. It is about 100 mm in diameter and abt. 200 mm deep.Noise level is low. ?Emile ?Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 27 juni 2016 20:12 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass ?Emile,Have you tried your gyro in a sub?Hank ?On Monday, June 27, 2016 8:20 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?I have a 28 VDC compact gyro ?from a aircraft. Runs on 24 vdc tough.?Emile?Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 27 juni 2016 15:49 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass??Air or vaccum power will not work in a sub. Try a electric one. 24 Volt or 12 V are rare - normaly 400 volt and high frequency - you need a transformer. ?But notice: ?The get out of course after 0,5 - 2 hours. And will be normaly re-adjust by a magnetic one in a aircraft. ?Ebay cheaps are often out of service / out of course. The normaly run but get quick out of course. Units with work proper certificate (Airworthy) are much more expensive. ?Buy three and select the best working - sale the rest again. ?vbr Carsten ?????-----Original-Nachricht-----Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compassDatum: 2016-06-27T02:18:46+0200Von: "k6fee via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ???Hank,??Try using a gyro compass ( or atifical horizon) from an aircraft. They sre either air, vaccum or electric ?powered.?Keith????Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone?-------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/26/16 4:11 PM (GMT-08:00)To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass?I am going to try to make a gyro compass, looks doable. ?I don't care about what direction I am going-I just want to go in a strait line. ?I will point the sub in the direction I want to go at the surface, then turn on the gyro and sink. ? Then I can just follow the gyro.Hank? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 27 15:57:09 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 19:57:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass References: <2077791069.1979328.1467057429879.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2077791069.1979328.1467057429879.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,I hope I can stay in the simple submarine design club with you now that I have five ?electronic systems with my new gyro compass. ?;-)Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 27 16:39:09 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 20:39:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass In-Reply-To: <55797707.1699018.1467026810283.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <921451499.1586847.1466986898612.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <251573837.1654981.1467023833664.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1985856969.2060935.1467025854699.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55797707.1699018.1467026810283.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2143206411.2558044.1467059949700.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,I think your theory about the UFO is looking good at this stage.It didn't work at 10ft, that's about 5psi; So have you tried squeezingit in various places to replicate that? Or what about mounting itinside the hull on a pole in the center of the dome area, as faras possible from the hull. If it worked it would eliminate any Alieninfluences & indicate that the water pressure was the problem.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 11:26 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Alan,I took my compass apart and it is perfect, it works perfect in my shop etc. ?I put it in the lake and it is stuck on N most of the time. ?Occasionally it will move. I think there is some mineral interference or an old sunken UFO messing with it. ?Hank On Monday, June 27, 2016 5:11 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, why would you want a turn & bank indicator above some sought of compass?There are a multitude of inexpensive underwater compasses that scuba divers use,although they may be a bit small to be read at a distance.?Possibly there is someissue with the compression of the oil stopping?your compass from functioning?Mounting the compass outside the hull seems to be standard practice & I haven'theard of any failing. Perhaps someone with previous issues with them could comment.Alan? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Kieth,I stand corrected, a turn and bank indicator is just the ticket and tons of them on?eBay for cheap. ?I was focusing on compass only, but these indicators are much cheaper and more available. ?Thanks' for the tipHank On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:25 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Kieth,My understanding is the aircraft units are noisy, I assume that is the air units. ?They are hard to find in guaranteed working condition for a price that works for me. ?If you know of any for a descent price-please let me know.Hank On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:16 PM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? Try using a gyro compass ( or atifical horizon) from an aircraft. They sre either air, vaccum or electric ?powered. Keith? Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/26/16 4:11 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass I am going to try to make a gyro compass, looks doable. ?I don't care about what direction I am going-I just want to go in a strait line. ?I will point the sub in the direction I want to go at the surface, then turn on the gyro and sink. ? Then I can just follow the gyro.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 27 17:06:25 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 21:06:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass In-Reply-To: <2143206411.2558044.1467059949700.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <921451499.1586847.1466986898612.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <251573837.1654981.1467023833664.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1985856969.2060935.1467025854699.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55797707.1699018.1467026810283.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <2143206411.2558044.1467059949700.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <838382793.1993732.1467061585202.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Its Aliens, Alan,I tried it inside the sub and it tries to work but is?totally off. ?I did squeeze it with the body off to simulate depth and it worked fine in the shop being squeezed. ?Hank On Monday, June 27, 2016 2:39 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I think your theory about the UFO is looking good at this stage.It didn't work at 10ft, that's about 5psi; So have you tried squeezingit in various places to replicate that? Or what about mounting itinside the hull on a pole in the center of the dome area, as faras possible from the hull. If it worked it would eliminate any Alieninfluences & indicate that the water pressure was the problem.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 11:26 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Alan,I took my compass apart and it is perfect, it works perfect in my shop etc. ?I put it in the lake and it is stuck on N most of the time. ?Occasionally it will move. I think there is some mineral interference or an old sunken UFO messing with it. ?Hank On Monday, June 27, 2016 5:11 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, why would you want a turn & bank indicator above some sought of compass?There are a multitude of inexpensive underwater compasses that scuba divers use,although they may be a bit small to be read at a distance.?Possibly there is someissue with the compression of the oil stopping?your compass from functioning?Mounting the compass outside the hull seems to be standard practice & I haven'theard of any failing. Perhaps someone with previous issues with them could comment.Alan? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Kieth,I stand corrected, a turn and bank indicator is just the ticket and tons of them on?eBay for cheap. ?I was focusing on compass only, but these indicators are much cheaper and more available. ?Thanks' for the tipHank On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:25 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Kieth,My understanding is the aircraft units are noisy, I assume that is the air units. ?They are hard to find in guaranteed working condition for a price that works for me. ?If you know of any for a descent price-please let me know.Hank On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:16 PM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? Try using a gyro compass ( or atifical horizon) from an aircraft. They sre either air, vaccum or electric ?powered. Keith? Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/26/16 4:11 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass I am going to try to make a gyro compass, looks doable. ?I don't care about what direction I am going-I just want to go in a strait line. ?I will point the sub in the direction I want to go at the surface, then turn on the gyro and sink. ? Then I can just follow the gyro.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 27 22:35:52 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 19:35:52 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Message-ID: <14468266.1467081353002.JavaMail.wam@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 27 23:08:47 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 23:08:47 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass In-Reply-To: <14468266.1467081353002.JavaMail.wam@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <14468266.1467081353002.JavaMail.wam@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Ian, welcome back!!! Your theory of increased currents makes sense to me. Hank, I would suggest the following experiment next time out. Get the sub rotating at depth. Then kill all power and watch the compass while the sub's momentum keeps her turning. Best, Alec On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 10:35 PM, irox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Hank, > > another possibility is that something on your sub is generating a strong > magnetic field, which only occurs at depth. An example could some motor > which is drawing more current (and creating a bigger magnetic field), > possibly due to pressure around a shaft seal. > > Or could it be time related? As in a electrostatic charge or something > building up over time, not interfering with the compass at the start of the > dive in shallow water, but building up and creating problems once at depth. > > I'm hoping to use a fiberoptic gyro to aid underwater navigation. > Possibly in conjunction with a 3D magnetometer/flux-gate-compass. > > Cheers, > Ian. > (I was finally able to subscribe to the mailing list again. But I have > been following archive for the last few years.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Jun 27, 2016 2:06 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass > > Its Aliens, Alan, > I tried it inside the sub and it tries to work but is totally off. I did > squeeze it with the body off to simulate depth and it worked fine in the > shop being squeezed. > Hank > > > On Monday, June 27, 2016 2:39 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hank, > I think your theory about the UFO is looking good at this stage. > It didn't work at 10ft, that's about 5psi; So have you tried squeezing > it in various places to replicate that? Or what about mounting it > inside the hull on a pole in the center of the dome area, as far > as possible from the hull. If it worked it would eliminate any Alien > influences & indicate that the water pressure was the problem. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Monday, June 27, 2016 11:26 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass > > Alan, > I took my compass apart and it is perfect, it works perfect in my shop > etc. I put it in the lake and it is stuck on N most of the time. Occasionally > it will move. I think there is some mineral interference or an old sunken > UFO messing with it. > Hank > > > On Monday, June 27, 2016 5:11 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hank, > why would you want a turn & bank indicator above some sought of compass? > There are a multitude of inexpensive underwater compasses that scuba > divers use, > although they may be a bit small to be read at a distance. Possibly there > is some > issue with the compression of the oil stopping your compass from > functioning? > Mounting the compass outside the hull seems to be standard practice & I > haven't > heard of any failing. Perhaps someone with previous issues with them could > comment. > Alan > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Monday, June 27, 2016 10:37 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass > > Kieth, > I stand corrected, a turn and bank indicator is just the ticket and tons > of them on eBay for cheap. I was focusing on compass only, but these > indicators are much cheaper and more available. > Thanks' for the tip > Hank > > > On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:25 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hi Kieth, > My understanding is the aircraft units are noisy, I assume that is the air > units. They are hard to find in guaranteed working condition for a price > that works for me. If you know of any for a descent price-please let me > know. > Hank > > > On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:16 PM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hank, > > Try using a gyro compass ( or atifical horizon) from an aircraft. They sre > either air, vaccum or electric powered. > > Keith > > > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Date: 6/26/16 4:11 PM (GMT-08:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass > > I am going to try to make a gyro compass, looks doable. I don't care > about what direction I am going-I just want to go in a strait line. I will > point the sub in the direction I want to go at the surface, then turn on > the gyro and sink. Then I can just follow the gyro. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 27 23:10:25 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 20:10:25 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Message-ID: <20160627201025.7618F4D8@m0086238.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 27 23:44:49 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 21:44:49 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass In-Reply-To: <20160627201025.7618F4D8@m0086238.ppops.net> References: <20160627201025.7618F4D8@m0086238.ppops.net> Message-ID: https://www.microstrain.com/inertial/nodes Sean On June 27, 2016 9:10:25 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hank, do you know if there are any cheap inertial navigation systems >out there? I would thing the robotics people might have something like >that . > > > >Brian > >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass >Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 21:06:25 +0000 (UTC) > >Its Aliens, Alan, > >I tried it inside the sub and it tries to work but is totally off. I >did squeeze it with the body off to simulate depth and it worked fine >in the shop being squeezed. > >Hank > > > >On Monday, June 27, 2016 2:39 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > >Hank, > >I think your theory about the UFO is looking good at this stage. > >It didn't work at 10ft, that's about 5psi; So have you tried squeezing > >it in various places to replicate that? Or what about mounting it > >inside the hull on a pole in the center of the dome area, as far > >as possible from the hull. If it worked it would eliminate any Alien > >influences & indicate that the water pressure was the problem. > >Alan > >_____________________________________________ >From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 11:26 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass > > >Alan, > >I took my compass apart and it is perfect, it works perfect in my shop >etc. I put it in the lake and it is stuck on N most of the time. >Occasionally it will move. I think there is some mineral interference >or an old sunken UFO messing with it. > >Hank > > > >On Monday, June 27, 2016 5:11 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > >Hank, > >why would you want a turn & bank indicator above some sought of >compass? > >There are a multitude of inexpensive underwater compasses that scuba >divers use, > >although they may be a bit small to be read at a distance. Possibly >there is some > >issue with the compression of the oil stopping your compass from >functioning? > >Mounting the compass outside the hull seems to be standard practice & I >haven't > >heard of any failing. Perhaps someone with previous issues with them >could comment. > >Alan > > > > > >_____________________________________________ >From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 10:37 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass > > >Kieth, > >I stand corrected, a turn and bank indicator is just the ticket and >tons of them on eBay for cheap. I was focusing on compass only, but >these indicators are much cheaper and more available. > >Thanks' for the tip > >Hank > > > >On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:25 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > >Hi Kieth, > >My understanding is the aircraft units are noisy, I assume that is the >air units. They are hard to find in guaranteed working condition for a >price that works for me. If you know of any for a descent price-please >let me know. > >Hank > > > >On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:16 PM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > >Hank, > > >Try using a gyro compass ( or atifical horizon) from an aircraft. They >sre either air, vaccum or electric powered. > > >Keith > > > > >Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > > >-------- Original message -------- > >From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > >Date: 6/26/16 4:11 PM (GMT-08:00) > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > >Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass > > >I am going to try to make a gyro compass, looks doable. I don't care >about what direction I am going-I just want to go in a strait line. I >will point the sub in the direction I want to go at the surface, then >turn on the gyro and sink. Then I can just follow the gyro. > >Hank > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 28 00:04:19 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 21:04:19 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass In-Reply-To: <838382793.1993732.1467061585202.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <921451499.1586847.1466986898612.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <251573837.1654981.1467023833664.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1985856969.2060935.1467025854699.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55797707.1699018.1467026810283.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <2143206411.2558044.1467059949700.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <838382793.1993732.1467061585202.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000b01d1d0f2$25a26dc0$70e74940$@telus.net> Hank, The compass that you are using looks to be a low end boat compass which typically do not have adjusting magnets installed. Although it's oil filled there may be an air bubble in it that compresses at depth and causes the compass card to hang up. Perhaps an aircraft magnetic compass mounted inside would be of help. All aircraft must have an aviation magnetic compass by law, and they seem to be all the same whether installed in a Boeing or a Cessna. My old Stinson 108-2 had the usual example. It needed to be "swung" annually wherein the plane with all power on was lined up on a compass rose painted on the tarmac and a brass screw driver was used to remove the compass error with the plane pointed on each point on the rose. There is a published procedure for this task. The errors could never be completed removed so a compass correction card was filled in and attached to the compass. The aircraft directional gyro would then be aligned to match the compass prior to departure and also about every half hour as the gyro tended to precess off course. My old Stinson was steel truss with aluminum skin and it was tricky to swing the compass. Most aircraft are mostly aluminum so slightly easier. Note that any charged wire, regardless of being terminated, will affect the overall magnetic deviation. The aircraft directional gyro is near useless due to precession unless you can reset it from time to time. Jim, I trust that you would agree with the foregoing. On a related note, I tried following a heading with my dive compass while operating a Sea Doo DPV and it was way off when the DPV was running. Pathetic. As well, diving anywhere near concrete (likely ferro-cement) or steel debris on the bottom would deviate the dive compass. Quote from http://uboat.net/articles/61.html: On the British Royal Navy submarines of Type A (1903) the magnetic compass was located out of the submarine hull, on the submarines' command bridge. The compass was closed inside impermeable stand. Inside the submarine it was possible to keep the submarine's course by means of telescope. The compass and the telescope were improved by the time, but one problem remains. Classic magnetic compasses were not able for navigation on submarines because of the submarines' magnetic shell effect. Because of that, the magnetic compasses' deviations were too big. Another form of navigation is by time-speed-distance-terrain following where you navigate by bottom contour at a known speed and accurate chart. Water currents will throw off your dead reckoning meaning so you will need some way to "take a fix". Since you may not be able to remain in visual contact with the bottom you will need a decent depth sounder. Perhaps a dive compass mounted on a pole (an aft fin) behind and above the hull with a video camera instead of the "telescope"? You could even tow your marker buoy from the aft fin. I believe that the effect of deviation follows the inverse square law. That is: if the compass was placed twice as far away from the ferrous material, then that material would then have one quarter of the deviating effect. My forestry engineer Dad taught me that before taking a bearing in the bush, always take the axe off your belt and put it at least 10 feet away. I still have his compass and his altimeter. Vance, what were the solutions that Perry used? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 2:06 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Its Aliens, Alan, I tried it inside the sub and it tries to work but is totally off. I did squeeze it with the body off to simulate depth and it worked fine in the shop being squeezed. Hank On Monday, June 27, 2016 2:39 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hank, I think your theory about the UFO is looking good at this stage. It didn't work at 10ft, that's about 5psi; So have you tried squeezing it in various places to replicate that? Or what about mounting it inside the hull on a pole in the center of the dome area, as far as possible from the hull. If it worked it would eliminate any Alien influences & indicate that the water pressure was the problem. Alan _____ From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 11:26 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Alan, I took my compass apart and it is perfect, it works perfect in my shop etc. I put it in the lake and it is stuck on N most of the time. Occasionally it will move. I think there is some mineral interference or an old sunken UFO messing with it. Hank On Monday, June 27, 2016 5:11 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hank, why would you want a turn & bank indicator above some sought of compass? There are a multitude of inexpensive underwater compasses that scuba divers use, although they may be a bit small to be read at a distance. Possibly there is some issue with the compression of the oil stopping your compass from functioning? Mounting the compass outside the hull seems to be standard practice & I haven't heard of any failing. Perhaps someone with previous issues with them could comment. Alan _____ From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Kieth, I stand corrected, a turn and bank indicator is just the ticket and tons of them on eBay for cheap. I was focusing on compass only, but these indicators are much cheaper and more available. Thanks' for the tip Hank On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:25 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Kieth, My understanding is the aircraft units are noisy, I assume that is the air units. They are hard to find in guaranteed working condition for a price that works for me. If you know of any for a descent price-please let me know. Hank On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:16 PM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hank, Try using a gyro compass ( or atifical horizon) from an aircraft. They sre either air, vaccum or electric powered. Keith Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 6/26/16 4:11 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass I am going to try to make a gyro compass, looks doable. I don't care about what direction I am going-I just want to go in a strait line. I will point the sub in the direction I want to go at the surface, then turn on the gyro and sink. Then I can just follow the gyro. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 28 06:15:54 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 10:15:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass In-Reply-To: <14468266.1467081353002.JavaMail.wam@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <14468266.1467081353002.JavaMail.wam@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1683122129.196800.1467108954151.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Ian,It could be as you say, some electric field problem. ?I have been trying for two seasons to sort it out and I am done with magnetic compass navigation. ?I am getting dizzy going in circles ;-) ?i have high hopes for the gyro turn indicator.Hank On Monday, June 27, 2016 8:36 PM, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv8403528067 #yiv8403528067 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv8403528067 Hi Hank, another possibility is that something on your sub is generating a strong magnetic field, which only occurs at depth.? An example could some motor which is drawing more current (and creating a bigger magnetic field), possibly due to pressure around a shaft seal. Or could it be time related?? As in a electrostatic charge or something building up over time, not interfering with the compass at the start of the dive in shallow water, but building up and creating problems once at depth. I'm hoping to use a fiberoptic gyro to aid underwater navigation.? Possibly in conjunction with a 3D magnetometer/flux-gate-compass. Cheers, ? Ian. (I was finally able to subscribe to the mailing list again.? But I have been following archive for the last few years.) -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Jun 27, 2016 2:06 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Its Aliens, Alan,I tried it inside the sub and it tries to work but is?totally off. ?I did squeeze it with the body off to simulate depth and it worked fine in the shop being squeezed. ?Hank On Monday, June 27, 2016 2:39 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I think your theory about the UFO is looking good at this stage.It didn't work at 10ft, that's about 5psi; So have you tried squeezingit in various places to replicate that? Or what about mounting itinside the hull on a pole in the center of the dome area, as faras possible from the hull. If it worked it would eliminate any Alieninfluences & indicate that the water pressure was the problem.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 11:26 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Alan,I took my compass apart and it is perfect, it works perfect in my shop etc. ?I put it in the lake and it is stuck on N most of the time. ?Occasionally it will move. I think there is some mineral interference or an old sunken UFO messing with it. ?Hank On Monday, June 27, 2016 5:11 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, why would you want a turn & bank indicator above some sought of compass?There are a multitude of inexpensive underwater compasses that scuba divers use,although they may be a bit small to be read at a distance.?Possibly there is someissue with the compression of the oil stopping?your compass from functioning?Mounting the compass outside the hull seems to be standard practice & I haven'theard of any failing. Perhaps someone with previous issues with them could comment.Alan? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Kieth,I stand corrected, a turn and bank indicator is just the ticket and tons of them on?eBay for cheap. ?I was focusing on compass only, but these indicators are much cheaper and more available. ?Thanks' for the tipHank On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:25 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Kieth,My understanding is the aircraft units are noisy, I assume that is the air units. ?They are hard to find in guaranteed working condition for a price that works for me. ?If you know of any for a descent price-please let me know.Hank On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:16 PM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? Try using a gyro compass ( or atifical horizon) from an aircraft. They sre either air, vaccum or electric ?powered. Keith? Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/26/16 4:11 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass I am going to try to make a gyro compass, looks doable. ?I don't care about what direction I am going-I just want to go in a strait line. ?I will point the sub in the direction I want to go at the surface, then turn on the gyro and sink. ? Then I can just follow the gyro.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 28 07:26:50 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 11:26:50 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?gyro_compass?= Message-ID: <577262d7.48dd0d0a.d3a7d.ffff9fc8@mx.google.com> Hmm ? Lake Diver had an old style aircraft gyro compass. It?s sitting in my garage where I was planning to leave it. You guys have me rethinking that position. Big and clunky, I suspect it worked well for Harold. Mark taught a friend of mine this weekend and the viz in the Chesapeake Bay was about a foot. Student continually remarked he had no idea where he was going. Brian Sent from Microsoft Surface -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 28 08:26:50 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:26:50 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass In-Reply-To: <2077791069.1979328.1467057429879.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2077791069.1979328.1467057429879.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2077791069.1979328.1467057429879.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: What's your budget Hank? We could put together an electronic compass with LCD display for about $250. Limitation will be wire length which would be about 12 foot maximum. Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 28 10:03:07 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 14:03:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass In-Reply-To: References: <2077791069.1979328.1467057429879.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2077791069.1979328.1467057429879.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <315977403.293408.1467122587300.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Jon,Thank you, that would work except I?already bought a electric gyroscopic turn indicator ?on eBay. ? ?If the indicator does not perform as I hope it will, I will take you up on that. ?Hank On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 6:27 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: What's your budget Hank?? We could put together an electronic compass with LCD display for about $250.? Limitation will be wire length which would be about 12 foot maximum. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 28 11:21:25 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:21:25 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Message-ID: <20160628082125.76184346@m0087791.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 28 12:51:58 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 10:51:58 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass In-Reply-To: <20160628082125.76184346@m0087791.ppops.net> References: <20160628082125.76184346@m0087791.ppops.net> Message-ID: It has been six or seven years since I last bought one - a 3DM-GX2 which ran about $1400 at that time. Sean On June 28, 2016 9:21:25 AM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Wow, those look really cool Sean ! Probably not cheap ! > > > >Brian > >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass >Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 21:44:49 -0600 > >https://www.microstrain.com/inertial/nodes > >Sean > > >On June 27, 2016 9:10:25 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >Hank, do you know if there are any cheap inertial navigation systems >out there? I would thing the robotics people might have something like >that . > > > >Brian > >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass >Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 21:06:25 +0000 (UTC) > >Its Aliens, Alan, > >I tried it inside the sub and it tries to work but is totally off. I >did squeeze it with the body off to simulate depth and ! it worked fine >in the shop being squeezed. > >Hank > > > >On Monday, June 27, 2016 2:39 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > >Hank, > >I think your theory about the UFO is looking good at this stage. > >It didn't work at 10ft, that's about 5psi; So have you tried squeezing > >it in various places to replicate that? Or what about mounting it > >inside the hull on a pole in the center of the dome area, as far > >as possible from the hull. If it worked it would eliminate any Alien > >influences & indicate that the water pressure was the problem. > >Alan > >_____________________________________________ >From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discuss! ion > >Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 11:26 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass > > >Alan, > >I took my compass apart and it is perfect, it works perfect in my shop >etc. I put it in the lake and it is stuck on N most of the time. >Occasionally it will move. I think there is some mineral interference >or an old sunken UFO messing with it. > >Hank > > > >On Monday, June 27, 2016 5:11 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > >Hank, > >why would you want a turn & bank indicator above some sought of >compass? > >There are a multitude of inexpensive underwater compasses that scuba >divers use, > >although they may be a bit small to be read at a distance. Possibly >there is some > >issue with the compression of the oil stopping your compass from >functioning? > >Mounting the compass outside the hull seems to be standard practice & I >haven't > >heard of any failing. Perhaps someone with previous issues with them >could comment. > >Alan > > > > > >_____________________________________________ >From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 10:37 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass > > >Kieth, > >I stand corrected, a turn and bank indicator is just the ticket and >tons of them on eBay for cheap. I was focusing on compass only, but >these indicators are much cheaper and more available. > >Thanks' for the tip > >Hank > > > >On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:25 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > >Hi Kieth, > >My understanding is the aircraft units are noisy, I assume that is the >air units. They are hard to find in guaranteed working condition for a >price that works for me. If you know of any for a descent price-please >let me know. > >Hank > > > >On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:16 PM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > >Hank, > > >Try using a gyro compass ( or atifical horizon) from an aircraft. They >sre either air, vaccum or electric powered. > > >Keith > > > > >Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > > >-------- Original message -------- > >From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > >Date: 6/26/16 4:11 PM (GMT-08:00) > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > >Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST! ] gyro compass > > >I am going to try to make a gyro compass, looks doable. I don't care >about what direction I am going-I just want to go in a strait line. I >will point the sub in the direction I want to go at the surface, then >turn on the gyro and sink. Then I can just follow the gyro. > >Hank > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_____________________________________________ > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 28 14:39:48 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 13:39:48 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass In-Reply-To: References: <20160627201025.7618F4D8@m0086238.ppops.net> Message-ID: I have used over the last four year in the R300 the Ocean Server OS5000-S 3 Axis Digital Compass (Serial) https://oceanserver-store.myshopify.com/collections/compass-modules/products/os5000-s-3-axis-digital-compass-serial . This is similar to what Sean has posted but I think a little less sophisticated. This device gives you roll, pitch, yaw, temperature and compass heading as a serial ascii string that I parse in the PLC via a RS 232 connection. It cost $325. I have it installed in a small I atm 6061-T6 aluminum pod behind the pilot on the exterior of the pressure hull about 6 inches and just below the FRP shell. When I had the large DC traction motor I would notice that magnetic field generated by the motor and wiring distorted the reading relative to amount of current. That is at low speed, when the motor was not drawing much power, the compass was spot on but as I increased the boat speed and the motor current would increase that the compass heading would be shifted 20-30 degrees. When you let off the throttle, it would return to original heading. Now that I have replaced the large DC traction motor with two MK-101 based thrusters, this effect has been reduced but not eliminated. Cliff On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 10:44 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > https://www.microstrain.com/inertial/nodes > > Sean > > > On June 27, 2016 9:10:25 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hank, do you know if there are any cheap inertial navigation systems >> out there? I would thing the robotics people might have something like >> that . >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass >> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 21:06:25 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Its Aliens, Alan, >> I tried it inside the sub and it tries to work but is totally off. I did >> squeeze it with the body off to simulate depth and ! it worked fine in the >> shop being squeezed. >> Hank >> >> >> On Monday, June 27, 2016 2:39 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> I think your theory about the UFO is looking good at this stage. >> It didn't work at 10ft, that's about 5psi; So have you tried squeezing >> it in various places to replicate that? Or what about mounting it >> inside the hull on a pole in the center of the dome area, as far >> as possible from the hull. If it worked it would eliminate any Alien >> influences & indicate that the water pressure was the problem. >> Alan >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discuss! ion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Monday, June 27, 2016 11:26 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass >> >> Alan, >> I took my compass apart and it is perfect, it works perfect in my shop >> etc. I put it in the lake and it is stuck on N most of the time. Occasionally >> it will move. I think there is some mineral interference or an old sunken >> UFO messing with it. >> Hank >> >> >> On Monday, June 27, 2016 5:11 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> why would you want a turn & bank indicator above some sought of compass? >> There are a multitude of inexpensive underwater compasses that scuba >> divers use, >> although they may be a bit small to be read at a distance. Possibly there >> is some >> issue with the compression of the oil stopping your compass from >> functioning? >> Mounting the compass outside the hull seems to be standard practice & I >> haven't >> heard of any failing. Perhaps someone with previous issues with them >> could comment. >> Alan >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Monday, June 27, 2016 10:37 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass >> >> Kieth, >> I stand corrected, a turn and bank indicator is just the ticket and tons >> of them on eBay for cheap. I was focusing on compass only, but these >> indicators are much cheaper and more available. >> Thanks' for the tip >> Hank >> >> >> On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:25 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Hi Kieth, >> My understanding is the aircraft units are noisy, I assume that is the >> air units. They are hard to find in guaranteed working condition for a >> price that works for me. If you know of any for a descent price-please let >> me know. >> Hank >> >> >> On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:16 PM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> >> Try using a gyro compass ( or atifical horizon) from an aircraft. They >> sre either air, vaccum or electric powered. >> >> Keith >> >> >> >> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Date: 6/26/16 4:11 PM (GMT-08:00) >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST! ] gyro compass >> >> I am going to try to make a gyro compass, looks doable. I don't care >> about what direction I am going-I just want to go in a strait line. I will >> point the sub in the direction I want to go at the surface, then turn on >> the gyro and sink. Then I can just follow the gyro. >> Hank >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 28 20:59:44 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 00:59:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass In-Reply-To: References: <20160627201025.7618F4D8@m0086238.ppops.net> Message-ID: <540243201.638463.1467161984049.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Cliff,When your compass go out of whack, is it consistent? ?Can you coast with the motors off and get a new heading? Hank On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 12:40 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have used over the last four year in?the R300 the Ocean Server OS5000-S 3 Axis Digital Compass (Serial) https://oceanserver-store.myshopify.com/collections/compass-modules/products/os5000-s-3-axis-digital-compass-serial .??This is similar to what Sean has posted but I think a little less sophisticated.?This device gives you roll, pitch, yaw, temperature and compass heading?as a serial ascii string?that I parse in the PLC via a RS 232 connection.?? It cost $325.? I have?it installed in a?small I atm 6061-T6 aluminum pod behind the pilot on the exterior of the pressure hull about 6 inches and just below the FRP shell.? When I had the large DC traction motor I would notice that magnetic field generated by the motor and wiring distorted the reading relative to amount of current.? That is at low speed, when the motor was not drawing much power, the compass was spot on but as I increased the boat speed and the motor current would increase that the compass heading would be shifted 20-30 degrees.? When you let off the throttle, it would return to original heading.? Now that I have replaced the large DC traction motor with two MK-101 based thrusters, this effect has been reduced but not eliminated. Cliff On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 10:44 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: https://www.microstrain.com/inertial/nodesSean On June 27, 2016 9:10:25 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,?? do you know if there are any cheap inertial navigation systems out there?? I would thing the robotics people might have something like that .?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 21:06:25 +0000 (UTC) Its Aliens, Alan,I tried it inside the sub and it tries to work but is?totally off.? I did squeeze it with the body off to simulate depth and ! itworked fine in the shop being squeezed. ?Hank On Monday, June 27, 2016 2:39 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I think your theory about the UFO is looking good at this stage.It didn't work at 10ft, that's about 5psi; So have you tried squeezingit in various places to replicate that? Or what about mounting itinside the hull on a pole in the center of the dome area, as faras possible from the hull. If it worked it would eliminate any Alieninfluences & indicate that the water pressure was the problem.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discuss! ion Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 11:26 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Alan,I took my compass apart and it is perfect, it works perfect in my shop etc.? I put it in the lake and it is stuck on N most of the time. ?Occasionally it will move. I think there is some mineral interference or an old sunken UFO messing with it. ?Hank On Monday, June 27, 2016 5:11 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, why would you want a turn & bank indicator above some sought of compass?There are a multitude of inexpensive underwater compasses that scuba divers use,although they may be a bit small to be read at a distance.?Possibly there is someissue with the compression of the oil stopping?your compass from functioning?Mounting the compass outside the hull seems to be standard practice & I haven'theard of any failing. Perhaps someone with previous issues with them could comment.Alan? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Kieth,I stand corrected, a turn and bank indicator is just the ticket and tons of them on?eBay for cheap.? I was focusing on compass only, but these indicators are much cheaper and more available. ?Thanks' for the tipHank On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:25 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Kieth,My understanding is the aircraft units are noisy, I assume that is the air units.? They are hard to find in guaranteed working condition for a price that works for me.? If you know of any for a descent price-please let me know.Hank On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:16 PM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? Try using a gyro compass ( or atifical horizon) from an aircraft. They sre either air, vaccum or electric ?powered. Keith? Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/26/16 4:11 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST! ] gyrocompass I am going to try to make a gyro compass, looks doable.? I don't care about what direction I am going-I just want to go in a strait line.? I will point the sub in the direction I want to go at the surface, then turn on the gyro and sink. ? Then I can just follow the gyro.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 28 21:46:51 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 20:46:51 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass In-Reply-To: <540243201.638463.1467161984049.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160627201025.7618F4D8@m0086238.ppops.net> <540243201.638463.1467161984049.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes it is consistent just biased. When I power down, it would return to correct heading. Cliff Cliff Redus > On Jun 28, 2016, at 7:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Cliff, > When your compass go out of whack, is it consistent? Can you coast with the motors off and get a new heading? > > Hank > > > On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 12:40 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I have used over the last four year in the R300 the Ocean Server OS5000-S 3 Axis Digital Compass (Serial) https://oceanserver-store.myshopify.com/collections/compass-modules/products/os5000-s-3-axis-digital-compass-serial . This is similar to what Sean has posted but I think a little less sophisticated. This device gives you roll, pitch, yaw, temperature and compass heading as a serial ascii string that I parse in the PLC via a RS 232 connection. It cost $325. I have it installed in a small I atm 6061-T6 aluminum pod behind the pilot on the exterior of the pressure hull about 6 inches and just below the FRP shell. When I had the large DC traction motor I would notice that magnetic field generated by the motor and wiring distorted the reading relative to amount of current. That is at low speed, when the motor was not drawing much power, the compass was spot on but as I increased the boat speed and the motor current would increase that the compass heading would be shifted 20-30 degrees. When you let off the throttle, it would return to original heading. Now that I have replaced the large DC traction motor with two MK-101 based thrusters, this effect has been reduced but not eliminated. > > Cliff > > > > On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 10:44 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > https://www.microstrain.com/inertial/nodes > Sean > > > On June 27, 2016 9:10:25 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hank, do you know if there are any cheap inertial navigation systems out there? I would thing the robotics people might have something like that . > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass > Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 21:06:25 +0000 (UTC) > > Its Aliens, Alan, > I tried it inside the sub and it tries to work but is totally off. I did squeeze it with the body off to simulate depth and ! it worked fine in the shop being squeezed. > Hank > > > On Monday, June 27, 2016 2:39 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > I think your theory about the UFO is looking good at this stage. > It didn't work at 10ft, that's about 5psi; So have you tried squeezing > it in various places to replicate that? Or what about mounting it > inside the hull on a pole in the center of the dome area, as far > as possible from the hull. If it worked it would eliminate any Alien > influences & indicate that the water pressure was the problem. > Alan > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discuss! ion > Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 11:26 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass > > Alan, > I took my compass apart and it is perfect, it works perfect in my shop etc. I put it in the lake and it is stuck on N most of the time. Occasionally it will move. I think there is some mineral interference or an old sunken UFO messing with it. > Hank > > > On Monday, June 27, 2016 5:11 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > why would you want a turn & bank indicator above some sought of compass? > There are a multitude of inexpensive underwater compasses that scuba divers use, > although they may be a bit small to be read at a distance. Possibly there is some > issue with the compression of the oil stopping your compass from functioning? > Mounting the compass outside the hull seems to be standard practice & I haven't > heard of any failing. Perhaps someone with previous issues with them could comment. > Alan > > > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 10:37 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass > > Kieth, > I stand corrected, a turn and bank indicator is just the ticket and tons of them on eBay for cheap. I was focusing on compass only, but these indicators are much cheaper and more available. > Thanks' for the tip > Hank > > > On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:25 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Kieth, > My understanding is the aircraft units are noisy, I assume that is the air units. They are hard to find in guaranteed working condition for a price that works for me. If you know of any for a descent price-please let me know. > Hank > > > On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:16 PM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > > Try using a gyro compass ( or atifical horizon) from an aircraft. They sre either air, vaccum or electric powered. > > Keith > > > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 6/26/16 4:11 PM (GMT-08:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST! ] gyro compass > > I am going to try to make a gyro compass, looks doable. I don't care about what direction I am going-I just want to go in a strait line. I will point the sub in the direction I want to go at the surface, then turn on the gyro and sink. Then I can just follow the gyro. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 29 08:32:18 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jerry Koontz via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 08:32:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 36, Issue 106 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <979862415.155138.1467203538057.JavaMail.root@md20.quartz.synacor.com> Found an interesting article on net about INS systems. http://electronic-engineering.ch/study/ins/ins.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "via Personal_Submersibles" To: "personal submersibles" Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 8:46:35 PM Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 36, Issue 106 Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: gyro compass (via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 20:46:51 -0500 From: via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Yes it is consistent just biased. When I power down, it would return to correct heading. Cliff Cliff Redus > On Jun 28, 2016, at 7:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Cliff, > When your compass go out of whack, is it consistent? Can you coast with the motors off and get a new heading? > > Hank > > > On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 12:40 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I have used over the last four year in the R300 the Ocean Server OS5000-S 3 Axis Digital Compass (Serial) https://oceanserver-store.myshopify.com/collections/compass-modules/products/os5000-s-3-axis-digital-compass-serial . This is similar to what Sean has posted but I think a little less sophisticated. This device gives you roll, pitch, yaw, temperature and compass heading as a serial ascii string that I parse in the PLC via a RS 232 connection. It cost $325. I have it installed in a small I atm 6061-T6 aluminum pod behind the pilot on the exterior of the pressure hull about 6 inches and just below the FRP shell. When I had the large DC traction motor I would notice that magnetic field generated by the motor and wiring distorted the reading relative to amount of current. That is at low speed, when the motor was not drawing much power, the compass was spot on but as I increased the boat speed and the motor current would increase that the compass heading would be shif! ted 20-30 degrees. When you let off the throttle, it would return to original heading. Now that I have replaced the large DC traction motor with two MK-101 based thrusters, this effect has been reduced but not eliminated. > > Cliff > > > > On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 10:44 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > https://www.microstrain.com/inertial/nodes > Sean > > > On June 27, 2016 9:10:25 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hank, do you know if there are any cheap inertial navigation systems out there? I would thing the robotics people might have something like that . > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass > Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 21:06:25 +0000 (UTC) > > Its Aliens, Alan, > I tried it inside the sub and it tries to work but is totally off. I did squeeze it with the body off to simulate depth and ! it worked fine in the shop being squeezed. > Hank > > > On Monday, June 27, 2016 2:39 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > I think your theory about the UFO is looking good at this stage. > It didn't work at 10ft, that's about 5psi; So have you tried squeezing > it in various places to replicate that? Or what about mounting it > inside the hull on a pole in the center of the dome area, as far > as possible from the hull. If it worked it would eliminate any Alien > influences & indicate that the water pressure was the problem. > Alan > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discuss! ion > Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 11:26 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass > > Alan, > I took my compass apart and it is perfect, it works perfect in my shop etc. I put it in the lake and it is stuck on N most of the time. Occasionally it will move. I think there is some mineral interference or an old sunken UFO messing with it. > Hank > > > On Monday, June 27, 2016 5:11 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > why would you want a turn & bank indicator above some sought of compass? > There are a multitude of inexpensive underwater compasses that scuba divers use, > although they may be a bit small to be read at a distance. Possibly there is some > issue with the compression of the oil stopping your compass from functioning? > Mounting the compass outside the hull seems to be standard practice & I haven't > heard of any failing. Perhaps someone with previous issues with them could comment. > Alan > > > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 10:37 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass > > Kieth, > I stand corrected, a turn and bank indicator is just the ticket and tons of them on eBay for cheap. I was focusing on compass only, but these indicators are much cheaper and more available. > Thanks' for the tip > Hank > > > On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:25 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Kieth, > My understanding is the aircraft units are noisy, I assume that is the air units. They are hard to find in guaranteed working condition for a price that works for me. If you know of any for a descent price-please let me know. > Hank > > > On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:16 PM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > > Try using a gyro compass ( or atifical horizon) from an aircraft. They sre either air, vaccum or electric powered. > > Keith > > > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 6/26/16 4:11 PM (GMT-08:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST! ] gyro compass > > I am going to try to make a gyro compass, looks doable. I don't care about what direction I am going-I just want to go in a strait line. I will point the sub in the direction I want to go at the surface, then turn on the gyro and sink. Then I can just follow the gyro. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 36, Issue 106 ****************************************************** From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 30 04:13:22 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 20:13:22 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 36, Issue 106 In-Reply-To: <979862415.155138.1467203538057.JavaMail.root@md20.quartz.synacor.com> References: <979862415.155138.1467203538057.JavaMail.root@md20.quartz.synacor.com> Message-ID: <3F98027E-BF8D-4B4E-952C-3886E6159EE9@yahoo.com> Thanks Jerry, good article outlining the difficulties they faced. That was written in 2000. I wonder how much this technology has advanced since then. I have seen some cheap units that plug in to Aduino & similar. It would be good to have an INS system that doesn't rely on GPS, that works with the maps that come with most depth sounder displays. It might exist but I couldn't find one. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 30/06/2016, at 12:32 am, Jerry Koontz via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Found an interesting article on net about INS systems. > http://electronic-engineering.ch/study/ins/ins.html > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "via Personal_Submersibles" > To: "personal submersibles" > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 8:46:35 PM > Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 36, Issue 106 > > Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: gyro compass (via Personal_Submersibles) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 20:46:51 -0500 > From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Yes it is consistent just biased. When I power down, it would return to correct heading. > > Cliff > > > Cliff Redus > >> On Jun 28, 2016, at 7:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi Cliff, >> When your compass go out of whack, is it consistent? Can you coast with the motors off and get a new heading? >> >> Hank >> >> >> On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 12:40 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> I have used over the last four year in the R300 the Ocean Server OS5000-S 3 Axis Digital Compass (Serial) https://oceanserver-store.myshopify.com/collections/compass-modules/products/os5000-s-3-axis-digital-compass-serial . This is similar to what Sean has posted but I think a little less sophisticated. This device gives you roll, pitch, yaw, temperature and compass heading as a serial ascii string that I parse in the PLC via a RS 232 connection. It cost $325. I have it installed in a small I atm 6061-T6 aluminum pod behind the pilot on the exterior of the pressure hull about 6 inches and just below the FRP shell. When I had the large DC traction motor I would notice that magnetic field generated by the motor and wiring distorted the reading relative to amount of current. That is at low speed, when the motor was not drawing much power, the compass was spot on but as I increased the boat speed and the motor current would increase that the compass heading would be shif! > ted 20-30 degrees. When you let off the throttle, it would return to original heading. Now that I have replaced the large DC traction motor with two MK-101 based thrusters, this effect has been reduced but not eliminated. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 10:44 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> https://www.microstrain.com/inertial/nodes >> Sean >> >> >> On June 27, 2016 9:10:25 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hank, do you know if there are any cheap inertial navigation systems out there? I would thing the robotics people might have something like that . >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass >> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 21:06:25 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Its Aliens, Alan, >> I tried it inside the sub and it tries to work but is totally off. I did squeeze it with the body off to simulate depth and ! it worked fine in the shop being squeezed. >> Hank >> >> >> On Monday, June 27, 2016 2:39 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> I think your theory about the UFO is looking good at this stage. >> It didn't work at 10ft, that's about 5psi; So have you tried squeezing >> it in various places to replicate that? Or what about mounting it >> inside the hull on a pole in the center of the dome area, as far >> as possible from the hull. If it worked it would eliminate any Alien >> influences & indicate that the water pressure was the problem. >> Alan >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discuss! ion >> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 11:26 PM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass >> >> Alan, >> I took my compass apart and it is perfect, it works perfect in my shop etc. I put it in the lake and it is stuck on N most of the time. Occasionally it will move. I think there is some mineral interference or an old sunken UFO messing with it. >> Hank >> >> >> On Monday, June 27, 2016 5:11 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> why would you want a turn & bank indicator above some sought of compass? >> There are a multitude of inexpensive underwater compasses that scuba divers use, >> although they may be a bit small to be read at a distance. Possibly there is some >> issue with the compression of the oil stopping your compass from functioning? >> Mounting the compass outside the hull seems to be standard practice & I haven't >> heard of any failing. Perhaps someone with previous issues with them could comment. >> Alan >> >> >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 10:37 PM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyro compass >> >> Kieth, >> I stand corrected, a turn and bank indicator is just the ticket and tons of them on eBay for cheap. I was focusing on compass only, but these indicators are much cheaper and more available. >> Thanks' for the tip >> Hank >> >> >> On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:25 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi Kieth, >> My understanding is the aircraft units are noisy, I assume that is the air units. They are hard to find in guaranteed working condition for a price that works for me. If you know of any for a descent price-please let me know. >> Hank >> >> >> On Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:16 PM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> >> Try using a gyro compass ( or atifical horizon) from an aircraft. They sre either air, vaccum or electric powered. >> >> Keith >> >> >> >> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> Date: 6/26/16 4:11 PM (GMT-08:00) >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST! ] gyro compass >> >> I am going to try to make a gyro compass, looks doable. I don't care about what direction I am going-I just want to go in a strait line. I will point the sub in the direction I want to go at the surface, then turn on the gyro and sink. Then I can just follow the gyro. >> Hank >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 36, Issue 106 > ****************************************************** > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles