From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 1 17:26:06 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 May 2016 21:26:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) References: <1165253244.4508170.1462137966788.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1165253244.4508170.1462137966788.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I am putting Gamma back together after the escape pod and full length ballast tanks modification. ? I recommend ?that any new build should have a big opening at each end of the pressure hull for easy access. ?Man O man is it nice to work on, tools in the middle and enter from the end that is closest to the job. Should be operational in a week or two. ?Also Gamma no longer has a hull ground.?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 2 14:47:43 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 May 2016 14:47:43 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Haptic control ROV Message-ID: Like most here I'm partial to subs in the choice between a sub and a ROV, but I must admit I think this ROV is pretty cool because of the control methods being used. Take a look at the video that's embedded in the article. https://news.stanford.edu/2016/04/27/robotic-diver-recovers-treasures/ Best, Alec -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 2 17:28:09 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 May 2016 17:28:09 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Haptic control ROV In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm not a huge fan of ROVs either, but that's pretty cool. ~ Doug S. On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Like most here I'm partial to subs in the choice between a sub and a ROV, > but I must admit I think this ROV is pretty cool because of the control > methods being used. Take a look at the video that's embedded in the > article. > > https://news.stanford.edu/2016/04/27/robotic-diver-recovers-treasures/ > > > Best, > > Alec > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 2 19:27:54 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 May 2016 23:27:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Haptic control ROV In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1334846167.6508394.1462231674358.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Interesting stuff.I zoomed in on the picture of the hand & it has a spring returnon the finger joints to open them up, it also has wires runningthrough the finger joints, so probably small motors or electro magnetsto close the fingers. If they are motors I would like to know how they compensate them. The hand parts look like they are 3D printed.It wouldn't have a lot of grip, but maybe you could attach a rope or grapple to larger objects with it.Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 6:47 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Haptic control ROV Like most here I'm partial to subs in the choice between a sub and a ROV, but I must admit I think this ROV is pretty cool because of the control methods being used. Take a look at the video that's embedded in the article.? https://news.stanford.edu/2016/04/27/robotic-diver-recovers-treasures/ Best, Alec _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 2 19:36:01 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 May 2016 23:36:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Haptic control ROV In-Reply-To: <1334846167.6508394.1462231674358.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1334846167.6508394.1462231674358.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1412891277.6372640.1462232161763.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Her is an article on the development of it.http://cs.stanford.edu/group/manips/projects/redsearobotics.html# Alan From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Haptic control ROV Interesting stuff.I zoomed in on the picture of the hand & it has a spring returnon the finger joints to open them up, it also has wires runningthrough the finger joints, so probably small motors or electro magnetsto close the fingers. If they are motors I would like to know how they compensate them. The hand parts look like they are 3D printed.It wouldn't have a lot of grip, but maybe you could attach a rope or grapple to larger objects with it.Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 6:47 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Haptic control ROV Like most here I'm partial to subs in the choice between a sub and a ROV, but I must admit I think this ROV is pretty cool because of the control methods being used. Take a look at the video that's embedded in the article.? https://news.stanford.edu/2016/04/27/robotic-diver-recovers-treasures/ Best, Alec _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 3 16:37:32 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 3 May 2016 16:37:32 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Interested in camping at the 2006 convention? Message-ID: Hi all, We're having difficulty securing a block of hotel rooms for the convention in Watkins Glen (Seneca Lake), so it looks like participants may have to make independent arrangements for accommodation. One option is a campground that is right next to a sub-capable boat ramp that I've used with Snoopy in the past. I have not camped there, but they have 8 tent sites available that are contiguous and in an area they tell me is suitable for pulling up our vehicles and subs. The cost is $30/night. There are fire pits, but no power. However, they tell me there are spots elsewhere in the campground where we could pull up the subs for charging. I would like to gauge if we have a critical mass of potential campers. Anyone interested in joining me? http://www.watkinsglen.us/clute-park-campground Thanks, Alec -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 3 16:41:31 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 03 May 2016 20:41:31 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Interested in camping at the 2006 convention? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Alec, I am planning on attending, but tough to be camping from california. Hotel for me. On Tue, May 3, 2016, 1:38 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi all, > > We're having difficulty securing a block of hotel rooms for the convention > in Watkins Glen (Seneca Lake), so it looks like participants may have to > make independent arrangements for accommodation. One option is a campground > that is right next to a sub-capable boat ramp that I've used with Snoopy in > the past. I have not camped there, but they have 8 tent sites available > that are contiguous and in an area they tell me is suitable for pulling up > our vehicles and subs. The cost is $30/night. There are fire pits, but no > power. However, they tell me there are spots elsewhere in the campground > where we could pull up the subs for charging. > > I would like to gauge if we have a critical mass of potential campers. > Anyone interested in joining me? > > http://www.watkinsglen.us/clute-park-campground > > > > Thanks, > > Alec > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 3 16:54:41 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 3 May 2016 16:54:41 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Message-ID: <57291011.8070306@psubs.org> Dates: July 27-July 30 Events: submarine diving, technical presentations, public interaction. Specifics to be announced. Lodging: Due to the busy tourism season it appears we will be unlikely to find one lodging location that has enough rooms for all that might attend. Therefore, this will be a "make-your-own-lodging-plans" event and we will identify a common central meeting spot soon. It will be critical that we share phone numbers and email addresses to keep in touch just in case anyone gets out of sync and wants to know where the group is located. If you are open to camping, let Alec or myself know ASAP. Otherwise, use expedia or your own favorite vacation planning tool to find lodging in the "Watkins Glen" area of New York. I have seen numerous hotels, B&B, motels, with 1-2 vacancies still available, so there are places to stay...we just won't all be in the same place. Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 3 19:10:17 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 3 May 2016 18:10:17 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Interested in camping at the 2006 convention? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rick Maxwell and I plan on attending but hotel for us old guys! Cliff On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi all, > > We're having difficulty securing a block of hotel rooms for the convention > in Watkins Glen (Seneca Lake), so it looks like participants may have to > make independent arrangements for accommodation. One option is a campground > that is right next to a sub-capable boat ramp that I've used with Snoopy in > the past. I have not camped there, but they have 8 tent sites available > that are contiguous and in an area they tell me is suitable for pulling up > our vehicles and subs. The cost is $30/night. There are fire pits, but no > power. However, they tell me there are spots elsewhere in the campground > where we could pull up the subs for charging. > > I would like to gauge if we have a critical mass of potential campers. > Anyone interested in joining me? > > http://www.watkinsglen.us/clute-park-campground > > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 4 00:11:14 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 00:11:14 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention In-Reply-To: <57291011.8070306@psubs.org> References: <57291011.8070306@psubs.org> Message-ID: <57297662.4060405@psubs.org> PC2016 - CALL FOR SPEAKERS We are seeking technical presentations for the 2016 PSUBS Convention. If you would like to give an update on your own submarine or have an area of interest that you would like to share please contact myself (jon at psubs.org) or Steve McQueen psub101 at indy.rr.com Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 4 01:35:10 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 3 May 2016 22:35:10 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lead smelter Message-ID: <20160503223510.77BBE6AD@m0087793.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 4 03:48:01 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 08:48:01 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lead smelter In-Reply-To: <20160503223510.77BBE6AD@m0087793.ppops.net> References: <20160503223510.77BBE6AD@m0087793.ppops.net> Message-ID: Got any pics Brian? It sounds interesting. On Wednesday, 4 May 2016, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, > I scored a really cool smelter for melting lead. Its a > really old one, probably from the 30's, Big enough to hold around 3 > gallons of lead I would say. With a propane burner . I'll try and get a > pic. > > Unfortunately for me they are trying to make lead illegal in California. > > > > > Brian > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 4 19:03:58 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 16:03:58 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lead smelter Message-ID: <20160504160358.7DEE1157@m0087793.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1263.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 88448 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1262.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 109622 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1260.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 144093 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 4 21:10:50 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 01:10:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lead smelter In-Reply-To: <20160504160358.7DEE1157@m0087793.ppops.net> References: <20160504160358.7DEE1157@m0087793.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1577763215.6295800.1462410650305.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,That is pretty nifty!Hank On Wednesday, May 4, 2016 5:03 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Here's some pics of my smelter? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lead smelter Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 08:48:01 +0100 Got any pics Brian?? It sounds interesting. ? On Wednesday, 4 May 2016, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,????????????? I scored a really cool smelter for melting lead.? Its a really old one, probably?from the 30's,? Big enough to hold around 3 gallons of lead I would say.? With? a propane burner .? I'll try and get a pic.?Unfortunately for me they are trying to make lead illegal in California.?????Brian _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 4 22:24:53 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 19:24:53 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lead smelter Message-ID: <20160504192453.730645D0@m0087796.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Hull ribs.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 55317 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 5 02:09:53 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 23:09:53 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lead smelter In-Reply-To: <20160504192453.730645D0@m0087796.ppops.net> References: <20160504192453.730645D0@m0087796.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, that's quite a piece of history you have there. David On May 4, 2016 7:25 PM, "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Got some big ladles with it also. Now I can make custom bars that will > fit in between the ribs of my concrete hull. > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lead smelter > Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 01:10:50 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, > That is pretty nifty! > Hank > > > On Wednesday, May 4, 2016 5:03 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Here's some pics of my smelter > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lead smelter > Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 08:48:01 +0100 > > Got any pics Brian? It sounds interesting. > > On Wednesday, 4 May 2016, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi All, > I scored a really cool smelter for melting lead. Its a > really old one, probably from the 30's, Big enough to hold around 3 > gallons of lead I would say. With a propane burner . I'll try and get a > pic. > > Unfortunately for me they are trying to make lead illegal in California. > > > > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 5 09:03:42 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 14:03:42 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Poster Message-ID: Hi All I was just googling to see if I could find a "depth of the ocean" poster for my new shop. I came across this, which even has a Kboat on! http://www.joelperrydesign.com/clients/explore-ocean.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 5 14:33:28 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 14:33:28 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers Message-ID: <20160505183328.77IOJ.221813.root@cdptpa-web16> All, I wanted to tag on to Jon's email. Even if you are not planning on attending but would like to recommend a speaker let me know. For that matter if you can't attend but want to put a presentation together I think we can present for you or set up a remote presentation capability (think WebEx or GoToMeeting). Thanks, Steve ---- Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > PC2016 - CALL FOR SPEAKERS > > We are seeking technical presentations for the 2016 PSUBS Convention. > If you would like to give an update on your own submarine or have an > area of interest that you would like to share please contact myself > (jon at psubs.org) or Steve McQueen psub101 at indy.rr.com > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 5 15:33:14 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 15:33:14 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers In-Reply-To: <02B6EB4C-E428-4115-97AC-6EAF0DF2FAFE@gmail.com> References: <256175542.3714602.1461103752771.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1186046597.3852829.1461108921075.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <33568F3C-C027-4EC4-8418-567B34A25587@gmail.com> <02B6EB4C-E428-4115-97AC-6EAF0DF2FAFE@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Cliff, It appears the MK controller will do just what I need it to, but there is one detail that has be a bit concerned. From what I see it appears the main motor current is all going through a single spade connector. Close to 50 amps through one of those little guys is a lot, and the connectors themselves don't take very fat cables. Have you had any issues with that? Thanks, Alec On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 10:38 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > http://m.ebay.com/itm/MINN-KOTA-TRAXXIS-TROLLING-MOTOR-MAIN-CONTROL-BOARD-PN-2184017-OR-2184027-/371336409933 > > Standard part that can be ordered just about everywhere. Shows up on eBay > quite often. MK part no. is 2184017. > > > Cliff Redus > > On Apr 19, 2016, at 9:24 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks Cliff. Is the controller a component you pulled from inside the MK > trolling motor or is it a standalone product? I did a few searches and have > not turned up anything standalone. I do have such a unit (really old) but > it's for a way lower-powered motor than the 101s. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 9:58 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Alan/Alec, I use Minn Kota 36v controllers for each of my 4 thrusters. >> They have worked great. They are potted and rugged. They have an internal >> relay with a dead band around 2.5v signal voltage. This means that >> absolutely no current flows even if you left the motor controller powered >> up while in the garage. >> >> My previous motor controller for my big traction motor was from Curtis. >> This worked great but generated a high pitch noise that was irritating. >> >> >> Cliff Redus >> >> On Apr 19, 2016, at 6:35 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> What did Cliff use? >> He has been through this process recently with a 101. >> Alan >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 20, 2016 11:12 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers >> >> No, the one I was considering was not for brushless motors. It's the >> Roboteq XDC2460, rated for 80A continuous duty per channel. But now I'm >> looking at Kelly I really like what I'm seeing there too, and Curtis seems >> to be similar. This will probably come down to a decision between a more >> advanced dual channel from Roboteq or a super simple single-channel >> controllers from the likes of Curtis/Kelly. In general if the simpler one >> can do the job, it's the one I would prefer even if it cost the same. >> >> Thanks guys for all the input! >> >> Alec >> >> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi Alec, >> that one says brushless? >> On the Kelly faq page for selecting controllers it suggests..... >> HOW TO CHOOSE A SUITABLE CONTROLLER FOR THE MOTOR? >> Usually the performance will be optimized if the power of the controller >> is 2.0-3.0 times of the motor's. >> I guess that means if you have a 2000W motor you get a controller >> whose continual >> amp rating X max voltage is at least 4000W. >> I have heard that it is better to aire on the safe side as some >> manufacturers over rate >> their controllers. Kelly have a reputation of being good & cheap, & their >> ratings accurate, >> however Hugh has had problems with them & I wired up mine yesterday & the >> ON light >> isn't working when powered up. I put power on it once without the >> pre-ignition resister >> so this may have stuffed it, but surely it wouldn't be so fickle! >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 20, 2016 9:45 AM >> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers >> >> Hi all, >> >> I need to finalize my selection of speed controllers for Shackleton over >> the next week or so, and at first blush am looking at this one from Roboteq: >> >> >> http://www.roboteq.com/index.php/docman/motor-controllers-documents-and-files/documentation/datasheets/hbl23xx/59-hbl23xx-datasheet/file >> >> There will be two of them, each driving a pair of MK101 thrusters. >> Roboteq offers a controller family that is a step down from this and still >> handles the required amperage, and which is tempting because it's much less >> expensive. However, the specs are too close for comfort (50A continuous >> duty rating vs. MK101 requirement of 46A). >> >> Anyone have any suggestions for other cost-effective controllers to >> consider? >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Alec >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 5 17:16:48 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 16:16:48 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers In-Reply-To: References: <256175542.3714602.1461103752771.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1186046597.3852829.1461108921075.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <33568F3C-C027-4EC4-8418-567B34A25587@gmail.com> <02B6EB4C-E428-4115-97AC-6EAF0DF2FAFE@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have never as any problem. BTW, the 1/4" spade connectors are also used inside the motor to connect the 10 AWG cables with the brushes. Make sure you get good quality spade connectors designed for 10 AWG wire. Don't use cheap spade connectors you would find at Harbor freight or one of the big box stores. Digikey has good spade connectors. Btw, I have been driving these MK boards pretty hard with my new variable pitch prop pushing 60 amps at times. No issue with the controllers. I found a nice undocumented feature of the MK controllers. If at low rpm the motor torque spikes like what happen if the prop fouls, the controller goes into a protection mode. On one of my dives I had a root lodge in my thruster between the ducted nozzle and prop. The MK controller protected the electronics. After pulling the root, the system returned to working fine. I found out about this when I tried to measure the 0 rpm max torque of the motor. Cliff Cliff Redus > On May 5, 2016, at 2:33 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Cliff, > > It appears the MK controller will do just what I need it to, but there is one detail that has be a bit concerned. From what I see it appears the main motor current is all going through a single spade connector. Close to 50 amps through one of those little guys is a lot, and the connectors themselves don't take very fat cables. Have you had any issues with that? > > > Thanks, > > Alec > >> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 10:38 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> http://m.ebay.com/itm/MINN-KOTA-TRAXXIS-TROLLING-MOTOR-MAIN-CONTROL-BOARD-PN-2184017-OR-2184027-/371336409933 >> >> Standard part that can be ordered just about everywhere. Shows up on eBay quite often. MK part no. is 2184017. >> >> >> Cliff Redus >> >>> On Apr 19, 2016, at 9:24 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Cliff. Is the controller a component you pulled from inside the MK trolling motor or is it a standalone product? I did a few searches and have not turned up anything standalone. I do have such a unit (really old) but it's for a way lower-powered motor than the 101s. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 9:58 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Alan/Alec, I use Minn Kota 36v controllers for each of my 4 thrusters. They have worked great. They are potted and rugged. They have an internal relay with a dead band around 2.5v signal voltage. This means that absolutely no current flows even if you left the motor controller powered up while in the garage. >>>> >>>> My previous motor controller for my big traction motor was from Curtis. This worked great but generated a high pitch noise that was irritating. >>>> >>>> >>>> Cliff Redus >>>> >>>>> On Apr 19, 2016, at 6:35 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> What did Cliff use? >>>>> He has been through this process recently with a 101. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 11:12 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers >>>>> >>>>> No, the one I was considering was not for brushless motors. It's the Roboteq XDC2460, rated for 80A continuous duty per channel. But now I'm looking at Kelly I really like what I'm seeing there too, and Curtis seems to be similar. This will probably come down to a decision between a more advanced dual channel from Roboteq or a super simple single-channel controllers from the likes of Curtis/Kelly. In general if the simpler one can do the job, it's the one I would prefer even if it cost the same. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks guys for all the input! >>>>> >>>>> Alec >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> Hi Alec, >>>>> that one says brushless? >>>>> On the Kelly faq page for selecting controllers it suggests..... >>>>> HOW TO CHOOSE A SUITABLE CONTROLLER FOR THE MOTOR? >>>>> Usually the performance will be optimized if the power of the controller is 2.0-3.0 times of the motor's. >>>>> I guess that means if you have a 2000W motor you get a controller whose continual >>>>> amp rating X max voltage is at least 4000W. >>>>> I have heard that it is better to aire on the safe side as some manufacturers over rate >>>>> their controllers. Kelly have a reputation of being good & cheap, & their ratings accurate, >>>>> however Hugh has had problems with them & I wired up mine yesterday & the ON light >>>>> isn't working when powered up. I put power on it once without the pre-ignition resister >>>>> so this may have stuffed it, but surely it wouldn't be so fickle! >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 9:45 AM >>>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I need to finalize my selection of speed controllers for Shackleton over the next week or so, and at first blush am looking at this one from Roboteq: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.roboteq.com/index.php/docman/motor-controllers-documents-and-files/documentation/datasheets/hbl23xx/59-hbl23xx-datasheet/file >>>>> >>>>> There will be two of them, each driving a pair of MK101 thrusters. Roboteq offers a controller family that is a step down from this and still handles the required amperage, and which is tempting because it's much less expensive. However, the specs are too close for comfort (50A continuous duty rating vs. MK101 requirement of 46A). >>>>> >>>>> Anyone have any suggestions for other cost-effective controllers to consider? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Alec >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 5 17:19:45 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 16:19:45 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers In-Reply-To: <20160505183328.77IOJ.221813.root@cdptpa-web16> References: <20160505183328.77IOJ.221813.root@cdptpa-web16> Message-ID: <00307226-5666-4658-A6E1-EAF23E217E01@gmail.com> Jon/Steve, put me down for a presentation on my new ducted, Variable pitch thruster based on Minn Kota 101 trolling motor. Cliff Cliff Redus > On May 5, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > All, I wanted to tag on to Jon's email. Even if you are not planning on attending but would like to recommend a speaker let me know. For that matter if you can't attend but want to put a presentation together I think we can present for you or set up a remote presentation capability (think WebEx or GoToMeeting). > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> PC2016 - CALL FOR SPEAKERS >> >> We are seeking technical presentations for the 2016 PSUBS Convention. >> If you would like to give an update on your own submarine or have an >> area of interest that you would like to share please contact myself >> (jon at psubs.org) or Steve McQueen psub101 at indy.rr.com >> >> Jon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 5 17:34:14 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 21:34:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers In-Reply-To: <00307226-5666-4658-A6E1-EAF23E217E01@gmail.com> References: <20160505183328.77IOJ.221813.root@cdptpa-web16> <00307226-5666-4658-A6E1-EAF23E217E01@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097546105.101882.1462484054723.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,I'm interested in hearing about any motor performance statsyou might have. Or do I have to come to conference to hear that??? I am currently machining the housing for my MK 2 brushless thruster,then will be doing a load of testing.Cheers Alan From: via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 6, 2016 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers Jon/Steve, put me down for a presentation on my new ducted, Variable pitch thruster based on Minn Kota 101 trolling motor. Cliff Cliff Redus > On May 5, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > All, I wanted to tag on to Jon's email. Even if you are not planning on attending but would like to recommend a speaker let me know. For that matter if you can't attend but want to put a presentation together I think we can present for you or set up a remote presentation capability (think WebEx or GoToMeeting). > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> PC2016 - CALL FOR SPEAKERS >> >> We are seeking technical presentations for the 2016 PSUBS Convention.? >> If you would like to give an update on your own submarine or have an >> area of interest that you would like to share please contact myself >> (jon at psubs.org) or Steve McQueen psub101 at indy.rr.com >> >> Jon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 5 19:04:01 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 19:04:01 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers In-Reply-To: <00307226-5666-4658-A6E1-EAF23E217E01@gmail.com> References: <20160505183328.77IOJ.221813.root@cdptpa-web16> <00307226-5666-4658-A6E1-EAF23E217E01@gmail.com> Message-ID: <007b01d1a722$6a0898d0$3e19ca70$@indy.rr.com> Cliff, got it. Thanks! We will be in touch regarding details. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2016 5:20 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers Jon/Steve, put me down for a presentation on my new ducted, Variable pitch thruster based on Minn Kota 101 trolling motor. Cliff Cliff Redus > On May 5, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > All, I wanted to tag on to Jon's email. Even if you are not planning on attending but would like to recommend a speaker let me know. For that matter if you can't attend but want to put a presentation together I think we can present for you or set up a remote presentation capability (think WebEx or GoToMeeting). > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> PC2016 - CALL FOR SPEAKERS >> >> We are seeking technical presentations for the 2016 PSUBS Convention. >> If you would like to give an update on your own submarine or have an >> area of interest that you would like to share please contact myself >> (jon at psubs.org) or Steve McQueen psub101 at indy.rr.com >> >> Jon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 5 20:10:27 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 20:10:27 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers In-Reply-To: References: <256175542.3714602.1461103752771.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1186046597.3852829.1461108921075.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <33568F3C-C027-4EC4-8418-567B34A25587@gmail.com> <02B6EB4C-E428-4115-97AC-6EAF0DF2FAFE@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks so much Cliff, good to hear! Today we had another design meeting on this topic and are leaning toward four MKs with a super simple control box consisting of nothing but four pots. A very nice feature Les has come up with is a ground fault test, so I can find out if any of the motor circuits has ceased to be watertight. This is a possibility since they are jettisonable. It'll also have a switches-only capability so we can dive or get home if controllers fail. Best, Alec On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 5:16 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I have never as any problem. BTW, the 1/4" spade connectors are also used > inside the motor to connect the 10 AWG cables with the brushes. Make sure > you get good quality spade connectors designed for 10 AWG wire. Don't use > cheap spade connectors you would find at Harbor freight or one of the big > box stores. Digikey has good spade connectors. > > Btw, I have been driving these MK boards pretty hard with my new variable > pitch prop pushing 60 amps at times. No issue with the controllers. > > I found a nice undocumented feature of the MK controllers. If at low rpm > the motor torque spikes like what happen if the prop fouls, the controller > goes into a protection mode. On one of my dives I had a root lodge in my > thruster between the ducted nozzle and prop. The MK controller protected > the electronics. After pulling the root, the system returned to working > fine. I found out about this when I tried to measure the 0 rpm max torque > of the motor. > > Cliff > > > Cliff Redus > > On May 5, 2016, at 2:33 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Cliff, > > It appears the MK controller will do just what I need it to, but there is > one detail that has be a bit concerned. From what I see it appears the main > motor current is all going through a single spade connector. Close to 50 > amps through one of those little guys is a lot, and the connectors > themselves don't take very fat cables. Have you had any issues with that? > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 10:38 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> >> http://m.ebay.com/itm/MINN-KOTA-TRAXXIS-TROLLING-MOTOR-MAIN-CONTROL-BOARD-PN-2184017-OR-2184027-/371336409933 >> >> Standard part that can be ordered just about everywhere. Shows up on >> eBay quite often. MK part no. is 2184017. >> >> >> Cliff Redus >> >> On Apr 19, 2016, at 9:24 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Thanks Cliff. Is the controller a component you pulled from inside the MK >> trolling motor or is it a standalone product? I did a few searches and have >> not turned up anything standalone. I do have such a unit (really old) but >> it's for a way lower-powered motor than the 101s. >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 9:58 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Alan/Alec, I use Minn Kota 36v controllers for each of my 4 thrusters. >>> They have worked great. They are potted and rugged. They have an internal >>> relay with a dead band around 2.5v signal voltage. This means that >>> absolutely no current flows even if you left the motor controller powered >>> up while in the garage. >>> >>> My previous motor controller for my big traction motor was from Curtis. >>> This worked great but generated a high pitch noise that was irritating. >>> >>> >>> Cliff Redus >>> >>> On Apr 19, 2016, at 6:35 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> What did Cliff use? >>> He has been through this process recently with a 101. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 20, 2016 11:12 AM >>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers >>> >>> No, the one I was considering was not for brushless motors. It's the >>> Roboteq XDC2460, rated for 80A continuous duty per channel. But now I'm >>> looking at Kelly I really like what I'm seeing there too, and Curtis seems >>> to be similar. This will probably come down to a decision between a more >>> advanced dual channel from Roboteq or a super simple single-channel >>> controllers from the likes of Curtis/Kelly. In general if the simpler one >>> can do the job, it's the one I would prefer even if it cost the same. >>> >>> Thanks guys for all the input! >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Alec, >>> that one says brushless? >>> On the Kelly faq page for selecting controllers it suggests..... >>> HOW TO CHOOSE A SUITABLE CONTROLLER FOR THE MOTOR? >>> Usually the performance will be optimized if the power of the controller >>> is 2.0-3.0 times of the motor's. >>> I guess that means if you have a 2000W motor you get a controller >>> whose continual >>> amp rating X max voltage is at least 4000W. >>> I have heard that it is better to aire on the safe side as some >>> manufacturers over rate >>> their controllers. Kelly have a reputation of being good & cheap, & >>> their ratings accurate, >>> however Hugh has had problems with them & I wired up mine yesterday & >>> the ON light >>> isn't working when powered up. I put power on it once without the >>> pre-ignition resister >>> so this may have stuffed it, but surely it wouldn't be so fickle! >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 20, 2016 9:45 AM >>> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I need to finalize my selection of speed controllers for Shackleton over >>> the next week or so, and at first blush am looking at this one from Roboteq: >>> >>> >>> http://www.roboteq.com/index.php/docman/motor-controllers-documents-and-files/documentation/datasheets/hbl23xx/59-hbl23xx-datasheet/file >>> >>> There will be two of them, each driving a pair of MK101 thrusters. >>> Roboteq offers a controller family that is a step down from this and still >>> handles the required amperage, and which is tempting because it's much less >>> expensive. However, the specs are too close for comfort (50A continuous >>> duty rating vs. MK101 requirement of 46A). >>> >>> Anyone have any suggestions for other cost-effective controllers to >>> consider? >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 5 21:58:47 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 20:58:47 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers In-Reply-To: <1097546105.101882.1462484054723.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160505183328.77IOJ.221813.root@cdptpa-web16> <00307226-5666-4658-A6E1-EAF23E217E01@gmail.com> <1097546105.101882.1462484054723.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0A34A2C9-993E-4C6C-9991-60E79D55BF67@gmail.com> When I get a report wired up I will post. I have been tied up the last 3 months building an inhouse pool. I want to take the bollard thrust test rig we built and do some more testing and modeling. Cliff Cliff Redus > On May 5, 2016, at 4:34 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, > I'm interested in hearing about any motor performance stats > you might have. Or do I have to come to conference to hear that? > I am currently machining the housing for my MK 2 brushless thruster, > then will be doing a load of testing. > Cheers Alan > > > From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, May 6, 2016 9:19 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers > > Jon/Steve, put me down for a presentation on my new ducted, Variable pitch thruster based on Minn Kota 101 trolling motor. > > Cliff > > > Cliff Redus > > > On May 5, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > All, I wanted to tag on to Jon's email. Even if you are not planning on attending but would like to recommend a speaker let me know. For that matter if you can't attend but want to put a presentation together I think we can present for you or set up a remote presentation capability (think WebEx or GoToMeeting). > > Thanks, > > Steve > > > > ---- Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> > >> PC2016 - CALL FOR SPEAKERS > >> > >> We are seeking technical presentations for the 2016 PSUBS Convention. > >> If you would like to give an update on your own submarine or have an > >> area of interest that you would like to share please contact myself > >> (jon at psubs.org) or Steve McQueen psub101 at indy.rr.com > >> > >> Jon > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 5 23:17:57 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 May 2016 03:17:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers In-Reply-To: <0A34A2C9-993E-4C6C-9991-60E79D55BF67@gmail.com> References: <20160505183328.77IOJ.221813.root@cdptpa-web16> <00307226-5666-4658-A6E1-EAF23E217E01@gmail.com> <1097546105.101882.1462484054723.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <0A34A2C9-993E-4C6C-9991-60E79D55BF67@gmail.com> Message-ID: <442244947.254458.1462504677138.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Look forward to the report Cliff.So does your in-house pool have a 30ft deep end & a gantry above it for launching your sub?Alan From: via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 6, 2016 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers When I get a report wired up I will post. ?I have been tied up the last 3 months building an inhouse pool. ?I want to take the bollard thrust test rig we built and do some more testing and modeling. Cliff Cliff Redus On May 5, 2016, at 4:34 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,I'm interested in hearing about any motor performance statsyou might have. Or do I have to come to conference to hear that??? I am currently machining the housing for my MK 2 brushless thruster,then will be doing a load of testing.Cheers Alan From: via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 6, 2016 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers Jon/Steve, put me down for a presentation on my new ducted, Variable pitch thruster based on Minn Kota 101 trolling motor. Cliff Cliff Redus > On May 5, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > All, I wanted to tag on to Jon's email. Even if you are not planning on attending but would like to recommend a speaker let me know. For that matter if you can't attend but want to put a presentation together I think we can present for you or set up a remote presentation capability (think WebEx or GoToMeeting). > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> PC2016 - CALL FOR SPEAKERS >> >> We are seeking technical presentations for the 2016 PSUBS Convention.? >> If you would like to give an update on your own submarine or have an >> area of interest that you would like to share please contact myself >> (jon at psubs.org) or Steve McQueen psub101 at indy.rr.com >> >> Jon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 6 10:04:48 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 May 2016 09:04:48 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers In-Reply-To: References: <256175542.3714602.1461103752771.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1186046597.3852829.1461108921075.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <33568F3C-C027-4EC4-8418-567B34A25587@gmail.com> <02B6EB4C-E428-4115-97AC-6EAF0DF2FAFE@gmail.com> Message-ID: Alec, why not use off the conventional 2 or thee axis joys sticks rather than individually controlling 4 potentiometers connected to motor controllers? It is very easy to have the joysticks act like the pots that are hard wired on the MK controller boards. Just cut the pots off. Three wires are left, 5V supply, signal and ground. Each of the axis on a joystick is typically something like a hall affect potentiometer so you send it 5v and get back as signal a between 0-5vdc signal. I know KISS principle is important to you but this is very KISS. You don't need a PLC. Cliff On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Cliff, > > It appears the MK controller will do just what I need it to, but there is > one detail that has be a bit concerned. From what I see it appears the main > motor current is all going through a single spade connector. Close to 50 > amps through one of those little guys is a lot, and the connectors > themselves don't take very fat cables. Have you had any issues with that? > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 10:38 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> >> http://m.ebay.com/itm/MINN-KOTA-TRAXXIS-TROLLING-MOTOR-MAIN-CONTROL-BOARD-PN-2184017-OR-2184027-/371336409933 >> >> Standard part that can be ordered just about everywhere. Shows up on >> eBay quite often. MK part no. is 2184017. >> >> >> Cliff Redus >> >> On Apr 19, 2016, at 9:24 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Thanks Cliff. Is the controller a component you pulled from inside the MK >> trolling motor or is it a standalone product? I did a few searches and have >> not turned up anything standalone. I do have such a unit (really old) but >> it's for a way lower-powered motor than the 101s. >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 9:58 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Alan/Alec, I use Minn Kota 36v controllers for each of my 4 thrusters. >>> They have worked great. They are potted and rugged. They have an internal >>> relay with a dead band around 2.5v signal voltage. This means that >>> absolutely no current flows even if you left the motor controller powered >>> up while in the garage. >>> >>> My previous motor controller for my big traction motor was from Curtis. >>> This worked great but generated a high pitch noise that was irritating. >>> >>> >>> Cliff Redus >>> >>> On Apr 19, 2016, at 6:35 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> What did Cliff use? >>> He has been through this process recently with a 101. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 20, 2016 11:12 AM >>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers >>> >>> No, the one I was considering was not for brushless motors. It's the >>> Roboteq XDC2460, rated for 80A continuous duty per channel. But now I'm >>> looking at Kelly I really like what I'm seeing there too, and Curtis seems >>> to be similar. This will probably come down to a decision between a more >>> advanced dual channel from Roboteq or a super simple single-channel >>> controllers from the likes of Curtis/Kelly. In general if the simpler one >>> can do the job, it's the one I would prefer even if it cost the same. >>> >>> Thanks guys for all the input! >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Alec, >>> that one says brushless? >>> On the Kelly faq page for selecting controllers it suggests..... >>> HOW TO CHOOSE A SUITABLE CONTROLLER FOR THE MOTOR? >>> Usually the performance will be optimized if the power of the controller >>> is 2.0-3.0 times of the motor's. >>> I guess that means if you have a 2000W motor you get a controller >>> whose continual >>> amp rating X max voltage is at least 4000W. >>> I have heard that it is better to aire on the safe side as some >>> manufacturers over rate >>> their controllers. Kelly have a reputation of being good & cheap, & >>> their ratings accurate, >>> however Hugh has had problems with them & I wired up mine yesterday & >>> the ON light >>> isn't working when powered up. I put power on it once without the >>> pre-ignition resister >>> so this may have stuffed it, but surely it wouldn't be so fickle! >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 20, 2016 9:45 AM >>> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I need to finalize my selection of speed controllers for Shackleton over >>> the next week or so, and at first blush am looking at this one from Roboteq: >>> >>> >>> http://www.roboteq.com/index.php/docman/motor-controllers-documents-and-files/documentation/datasheets/hbl23xx/59-hbl23xx-datasheet/file >>> >>> There will be two of them, each driving a pair of MK101 thrusters. >>> Roboteq offers a controller family that is a step down from this and still >>> handles the required amperage, and which is tempting because it's much less >>> expensive. However, the specs are too close for comfort (50A continuous >>> duty rating vs. MK101 requirement of 46A). >>> >>> Anyone have any suggestions for other cost-effective controllers to >>> consider? >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 6 12:49:08 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 May 2016 12:49:08 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers In-Reply-To: References: <256175542.3714602.1461103752771.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1186046597.3852829.1461108921075.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <33568F3C-C027-4EC4-8418-567B34A25587@gmail.com> <02B6EB4C-E428-4115-97AC-6EAF0DF2FAFE@gmail.com> Message-ID: A couple of reasons... After chewing on this and hearing feedback from you guys, what I would like from a UI perspective is a combination of Alan's "tractor control" and what I had in Snoopy. Let's start with the stern thrusters, for which I really like the "tractor control" paradigm. We considered a pair of small single axis joysticks for the stern thrusters. One shortcoming is that they have only 20 or 25 degrees of movement each forward or aft of center. As they're small, and the full throttle gets applied over those 25 degrees, it could be a bit too sensitive. In addition, I would like the control not to have any spring return so that the boat keeps going and I can momentarily take my hands off the controls. We did find a mini-joystick without spring return, but it only had 20 degree range. The pots I used on Snoopy had 270 degrees. Like in Snoopy, what we would do is mount these on the sides (not top) of the control box, and put handles on them rather than knobs. We would mount them so the handles are vertical in the dead zone, and if we can add some sort of mechanical clicker to indicate that position. Like in Snoopy, the pots will have O rings on the shafts. The side thrusters are a bit trickier. On Snoopy I used to dive positive and used one of the pots to throttle both side thrusters simultaneously. It worked like a charm, it was like having a "depth control." But on the new sub the side thrusters are angled outward, so we will want differential throttling in order to crab, even though I expect crabbing to be relatively rare. From a UI perspective my first choice would have been to control the side thrusters with two parallel slider pots. I would align them right next to each other on the face of the control box, facing fore-aft. For downward thrust slide both down together, for surfacing thrust slide them up. In my experience the side thruster settings are much more static than the stern thrusters, you don't change depth as much as you change direction horizontally. In the rare event you need to crab this is a bit counter-intuitive but you would move the sliders in opposite directions. However, there is a fatal flaw in that plan - we could not find any sliders that are IP66 or IP67 rated, and it's a basic requirement that the control box should survive a direct hit by a wave, or even being dropped in the ocean. We looked at thumb-wheels, which would be almost as nice as the sliders, but those too have watertightness issues. So at the moment the thinking is to use the same trick as for the stern thrusters, but with really tiny handles and the pots perhaps in a small box mounted on top of the main control box. If anyone has any suggestions for something more intuitive that is watertight, I'm all ears! This has been a very valuable discussion thread to me, I really appreciate the input. Thanks, Alec On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, why not use off the conventional 2 or thee axis joys sticks rather > than individually controlling 4 potentiometers connected to motor > controllers? It is very easy to have the joysticks act like the pots that > are hard wired on the MK controller boards. Just cut the pots off. Three > wires are left, 5V supply, signal and ground. Each of the axis on a > joystick is typically something like a hall affect potentiometer so you > send it 5v and get back as signal a between 0-5vdc signal. > I know KISS principle is important to you but this is very KISS. You > don't need a PLC. > > Cliff > > On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi Cliff, >> >> It appears the MK controller will do just what I need it to, but there is >> one detail that has be a bit concerned. From what I see it appears the main >> motor current is all going through a single spade connector. Close to 50 >> amps through one of those little guys is a lot, and the connectors >> themselves don't take very fat cables. Have you had any issues with that? >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Alec >> >> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 10:38 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> >>> http://m.ebay.com/itm/MINN-KOTA-TRAXXIS-TROLLING-MOTOR-MAIN-CONTROL-BOARD-PN-2184017-OR-2184027-/371336409933 >>> >>> Standard part that can be ordered just about everywhere. Shows up on >>> eBay quite often. MK part no. is 2184017. >>> >>> >>> Cliff Redus >>> >>> On Apr 19, 2016, at 9:24 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Cliff. Is the controller a component you pulled from inside the >>> MK trolling motor or is it a standalone product? I did a few searches and >>> have not turned up anything standalone. I do have such a unit (really old) >>> but it's for a way lower-powered motor than the 101s. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 9:58 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Alan/Alec, I use Minn Kota 36v controllers for each of my 4 thrusters. >>>> They have worked great. They are potted and rugged. They have an internal >>>> relay with a dead band around 2.5v signal voltage. This means that >>>> absolutely no current flows even if you left the motor controller powered >>>> up while in the garage. >>>> >>>> My previous motor controller for my big traction motor was from >>>> Curtis. This worked great but generated a high pitch noise that was >>>> irritating. >>>> >>>> >>>> Cliff Redus >>>> >>>> On Apr 19, 2016, at 6:35 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> What did Cliff use? >>>> He has been through this process recently with a 101. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From:* Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 20, 2016 11:12 AM >>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers >>>> >>>> No, the one I was considering was not for brushless motors. It's the >>>> Roboteq XDC2460, rated for 80A continuous duty per channel. But now I'm >>>> looking at Kelly I really like what I'm seeing there too, and Curtis seems >>>> to be similar. This will probably come down to a decision between a more >>>> advanced dual channel from Roboteq or a super simple single-channel >>>> controllers from the likes of Curtis/Kelly. In general if the simpler one >>>> can do the job, it's the one I would prefer even if it cost the same. >>>> >>>> Thanks guys for all the input! >>>> >>>> Alec >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Alec, >>>> that one says brushless? >>>> On the Kelly faq page for selecting controllers it suggests..... >>>> HOW TO CHOOSE A SUITABLE CONTROLLER FOR THE MOTOR? >>>> Usually the performance will be optimized if the power of the >>>> controller is 2.0-3.0 times of the motor's. >>>> I guess that means if you have a 2000W motor you get a controller >>>> whose continual >>>> amp rating X max voltage is at least 4000W. >>>> I have heard that it is better to aire on the safe side as some >>>> manufacturers over rate >>>> their controllers. Kelly have a reputation of being good & cheap, & >>>> their ratings accurate, >>>> however Hugh has had problems with them & I wired up mine yesterday & >>>> the ON light >>>> isn't working when powered up. I put power on it once without the >>>> pre-ignition resister >>>> so this may have stuffed it, but surely it wouldn't be so fickle! >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From:* Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 20, 2016 9:45 AM >>>> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I need to finalize my selection of speed controllers for Shackleton >>>> over the next week or so, and at first blush am looking at this one from >>>> Roboteq: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.roboteq.com/index.php/docman/motor-controllers-documents-and-files/documentation/datasheets/hbl23xx/59-hbl23xx-datasheet/file >>>> >>>> There will be two of them, each driving a pair of MK101 thrusters. >>>> Roboteq offers a controller family that is a step down from this and still >>>> handles the required amperage, and which is tempting because it's much less >>>> expensive. However, the specs are too close for comfort (50A continuous >>>> duty rating vs. MK101 requirement of 46A). >>>> >>>> Anyone have any suggestions for other cost-effective controllers to >>>> consider? >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Alec >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 6 15:11:04 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 May 2016 19:11:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1684577412.636474.1462561864111.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> What about concentric pots ? Custom Potentiometer Selection Guide | | | Custom Potentiometer Selection Guide Custom Potentiometers. Modular design with Conductive Plastic or Cermet elements. Many options available. | | | From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 6, 2016 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers A couple of reasons... After chewing on this and hearing feedback from you guys, what I would like from a UI perspective is a combination of Alan's "tractor control" and what I had in Snoopy.? Let's start with the stern thrusters, for which I really like the "tractor control" paradigm. We considered a pair of small single axis joysticks for the stern thrusters. One shortcoming is that they have only 20 or 25 degrees of movement each forward or aft of center. As they're small, and the full throttle gets applied over those 25 degrees, it could be a bit too sensitive. In addition, I would like the control not to have any spring return so that the boat keeps going and I can momentarily take my hands off the controls. We did find a mini-joystick without spring return, but it only had 20 degree range. The pots I used on Snoopy had 270 degrees. Like in Snoopy, what we would do is mount these on the sides (not top) of the control box, and put handles on them rather than knobs. We would mount them so the handles are vertical in the dead zone, and if we can add some sort of mechanical clicker to indicate that position. Like in Snoopy, the pots will have O rings on the shafts. The side thrusters are a bit trickier.?On Snoopy I used to dive positive and used one of the pots to throttle both side thrusters simultaneously. It worked like a charm, it was like having a "depth control." But on the new sub the side thrusters are angled outward, so we will want differential throttling in order to crab, even though I expect crabbing to be relatively rare. From a UI perspective my first choice would have been to control the side thrusters with two parallel slider pots. I would align them right next to each other on the face of the control box, facing fore-aft. For downward thrust slide both down together, for surfacing thrust slide them up. In my experience the side thruster settings are much more static than the stern thrusters, you don't change depth as much as you change direction horizontally. In the rare event you need to crab this is a bit counter-intuitive but you would move the sliders in opposite directions. However, there is a fatal flaw in that plan - we could not find any sliders that are IP66 or IP67 rated, and it's a basic requirement that the control box should survive a direct hit by a wave, or even being dropped in the ocean. We looked at thumb-wheels, which would be almost as nice as the sliders, but those too have watertightness issues. So at the moment the thinking is to use the same trick as for the stern thrusters, but with really tiny handles and the pots perhaps in a small box mounted on top of the main control box. If anyone has any suggestions for something more intuitive that is watertight, I'm all ears! This has been a very valuable discussion thread to me, I really appreciate the input. Thanks, Alec? On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, why not use off the conventional ?2 or thee axis joys sticks rather than individually?controlling 4 potentiometers connected to motor controllers?? It is very easy to have the joysticks act like the pots that are hard wired on the MK controller boards.? Just cut the pots off.? Three wires are left, 5V supply, signal and ground.? Each of the axis on a joystick is typically something like a hall affect potentiometer so you send it 5v and get back as signal a between 0-5vdc signal.? I know KISS principle is important to you but this is very KISS.? You don't need a PLC.? Cliff On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, It appears the MK controller will do just what I need it to, but there is one detail that has be a bit concerned. From what I see it appears the main motor current is all going through a single spade connector. Close to 50 amps through one of those little guys is a lot, and the connectors themselves don't take very fat cables. Have you had any issues with that?? Thanks, Alec On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 10:38 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: http://m.ebay.com/itm/MINN-KOTA-TRAXXIS-TROLLING-MOTOR-MAIN-CONTROL-BOARD-PN-2184017-OR-2184027-/371336409933 Standard part that can be ordered just about everywhere.? Shows up on eBay quite often.? MK part no. ?is 2184017. Cliff Redus On Apr 19, 2016, at 9:24 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff.?Is the controller a component you?pulled from inside the MK trolling motor or is it a standalone product??I did a?few searches and have not turned up anything standalone. I do have such a unit (really old) but it's for a way lower-powered motor than the 101s. Best, Alec? On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 9:58 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan/Alec, I use Minn Kota 36v controllers for each of my 4 thrusters.? They have worked great.? They are potted and rugged.? They have an internal relay with a dead band around 2.5v signal voltage.? This means that absolutely no current flows even if you left the motor controller powered up while in the garage. My previous motor controller for my big traction motor was from Curtis.? This worked great but generated a high pitch noise that was irritating. Cliff Redus On Apr 19, 2016, at 6:35 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: What did Cliff use?He has been through this process recently with a 101.Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers No, the one I was considering was not for brushless motors. It's the Roboteq XDC2460, rated for 80A continuous duty per channel. But now I'm looking at Kelly I really like what I'm seeing there too, and?Curtis seems to be similar. This will probably come down to a decision between a more advanced? dual channel from Roboteq or a super simple single-channel controllers from the likes of Curtis/Kelly. In general if the simpler one can do the job, it's the one I would prefer even if it cost the same. Thanks guys for all the input! Alec On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alec,that one says brushless?On the Kelly faq page for selecting controllers it suggests..... HOW TO CHOOSE A SUITABLE CONTROLLER FOR THE MOTOR? Usually the performance will be optimized if the power of the controller is 2.0-3.0 times of the motor's.?? I guess that means if you have a 2000W motor you get a controller whose continualamp rating X max voltage is at least 4000W.?? I have heard that it is better to aire on the safe side as some manufacturers over ratetheir controllers. Kelly have a reputation of being good & cheap, & their ratings?accurate,however Hugh has had problems with them & I wired up mine yesterday & the ON lightisn't working when powered up. I put power on it once without the pre-ignition resisterso this may have stuffed it, but surely it wouldn't be so fickle!Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 9:45 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers Hi all, I need to finalize my selection of speed controllers for Shackleton over the next week or so, and at first blush am looking at this one from Roboteq: http://www.roboteq.com/index.php/docman/motor-controllers-documents-and-files/documentation/datasheets/hbl23xx/59-hbl23xx-datasheet/file There will be two of them, each driving?a pair of?MK101 thrusters. Roboteq offers a controller family that is a step down from this and still handles the required amperage, and which?is tempting because it's much less expensive. However, the specs are too close for comfort (50A continuous duty rating vs. MK101 requirement of?46A). Anyone have any suggestions for other cost-effective controllers to consider? Thanks, Alec _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 6 15:27:15 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 May 2016 19:27:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers In-Reply-To: <1684577412.636474.1462561864111.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1684577412.636474.1462561864111.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <469844352.627392.1462562835442.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> They have shaft seals also APM Hexseal Panel Seals | | | APM Hexseal Panel Seals APM Hexseal exterior panel and shaft seals. Silicone External Rotary Shaft Seals IP66/68 Rated | | | From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 6, 2016 2:11 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers What about concentric pots ? Custom Potentiometer Selection Guide | | | Custom Potentiometer Selection Guide Custom Potentiometers. Modular design with Conductive Plastic or Cermet elements. Many options available. | | | From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 6, 2016 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers A couple of reasons... After chewing on this and hearing feedback from you guys, what I would like from a UI perspective is a combination of Alan's "tractor control" and what I had in Snoopy.? Let's start with the stern thrusters, for which I really like the "tractor control" paradigm. We considered a pair of small single axis joysticks for the stern thrusters. One shortcoming is that they have only 20 or 25 degrees of movement each forward or aft of center. As they're small, and the full throttle gets applied over those 25 degrees, it could be a bit too sensitive. In addition, I would like the control not to have any spring return so that the boat keeps going and I can momentarily take my hands off the controls. We did find a mini-joystick without spring return, but it only had 20 degree range. The pots I used on Snoopy had 270 degrees. Like in Snoopy, what we would do is mount these on the sides (not top) of the control box, and put handles on them rather than knobs. We would mount them so the handles are vertical in the dead zone, and if we can add some sort of mechanical clicker to indicate that position. Like in Snoopy, the pots will have O rings on the shafts. The side thrusters are a bit trickier.?On Snoopy I used to dive positive and used one of the pots to throttle both side thrusters simultaneously. It worked like a charm, it was like having a "depth control." But on the new sub the side thrusters are angled outward, so we will want differential throttling in order to crab, even though I expect crabbing to be relatively rare. From a UI perspective my first choice would have been to control the side thrusters with two parallel slider pots. I would align them right next to each other on the face of the control box, facing fore-aft. For downward thrust slide both down together, for surfacing thrust slide them up. In my experience the side thruster settings are much more static than the stern thrusters, you don't change depth as much as you change direction horizontally. In the rare event you need to crab this is a bit counter-intuitive but you would move the sliders in opposite directions. However, there is a fatal flaw in that plan - we could not find any sliders that are IP66 or IP67 rated, and it's a basic requirement that the control box should survive a direct hit by a wave, or even being dropped in the ocean. We looked at thumb-wheels, which would be almost as nice as the sliders, but those too have watertightness issues. So at the moment the thinking is to use the same trick as for the stern thrusters, but with really tiny handles and the pots perhaps in a small box mounted on top of the main control box. If anyone has any suggestions for something more intuitive that is watertight, I'm all ears! This has been a very valuable discussion thread to me, I really appreciate the input. Thanks, Alec? On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, why not use off the conventional ?2 or thee axis joys sticks rather than individually?controlling 4 potentiometers connected to motor controllers?? It is very easy to have the joysticks act like the pots that are hard wired on the MK controller boards.? Just cut the pots off.? Three wires are left, 5V supply, signal and ground.? Each of the axis on a joystick is typically something like a hall affect potentiometer so you send it 5v and get back as signal a between 0-5vdc signal.? I know KISS principle is important to you but this is very KISS.? You don't need a PLC.? Cliff On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, It appears the MK controller will do just what I need it to, but there is one detail that has be a bit concerned. From what I see it appears the main motor current is all going through a single spade connector. Close to 50 amps through one of those little guys is a lot, and the connectors themselves don't take very fat cables. Have you had any issues with that?? Thanks, Alec On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 10:38 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: http://m.ebay.com/itm/MINN-KOTA-TRAXXIS-TROLLING-MOTOR-MAIN-CONTROL-BOARD-PN-2184017-OR-2184027-/371336409933 Standard part that can be ordered just about everywhere.? Shows up on eBay quite often.? MK part no. ?is 2184017. Cliff Redus On Apr 19, 2016, at 9:24 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff.?Is the controller a component you?pulled from inside the MK trolling motor or is it a standalone product??I did a?few searches and have not turned up anything standalone. I do have such a unit (really old) but it's for a way lower-powered motor than the 101s. Best, Alec? On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 9:58 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan/Alec, I use Minn Kota 36v controllers for each of my 4 thrusters.? They have worked great.? They are potted and rugged.? They have an internal relay with a dead band around 2.5v signal voltage.? This means that absolutely no current flows even if you left the motor controller powered up while in the garage. My previous motor controller for my big traction motor was from Curtis.? This worked great but generated a high pitch noise that was irritating. Cliff Redus On Apr 19, 2016, at 6:35 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: What did Cliff use?He has been through this process recently with a 101.Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers No, the one I was considering was not for brushless motors. It's the Roboteq XDC2460, rated for 80A continuous duty per channel. But now I'm looking at Kelly I really like what I'm seeing there too, and?Curtis seems to be similar. This will probably come down to a decision between a more advanced? dual channel from Roboteq or a super simple single-channel controllers from the likes of Curtis/Kelly. In general if the simpler one can do the job, it's the one I would prefer even if it cost the same. Thanks guys for all the input! Alec On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alec,that one says brushless?On the Kelly faq page for selecting controllers it suggests..... HOW TO CHOOSE A SUITABLE CONTROLLER FOR THE MOTOR? Usually the performance will be optimized if the power of the controller is 2.0-3.0 times of the motor's.?? I guess that means if you have a 2000W motor you get a controller whose continualamp rating X max voltage is at least 4000W.?? I have heard that it is better to aire on the safe side as some manufacturers over ratetheir controllers. Kelly have a reputation of being good & cheap, & their ratings?accurate,however Hugh has had problems with them & I wired up mine yesterday & the ON lightisn't working when powered up. I put power on it once without the pre-ignition resisterso this may have stuffed it, but surely it wouldn't be so fickle!Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 9:45 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers Hi all, I need to finalize my selection of speed controllers for Shackleton over the next week or so, and at first blush am looking at this one from Roboteq: http://www.roboteq.com/index.php/docman/motor-controllers-documents-and-files/documentation/datasheets/hbl23xx/59-hbl23xx-datasheet/file There will be two of them, each driving?a pair of?MK101 thrusters. Roboteq offers a controller family that is a step down from this and still handles the required amperage, and which?is tempting because it's much less expensive. However, the specs are too close for comfort (50A continuous duty rating vs. MK101 requirement of?46A). Anyone have any suggestions for other cost-effective controllers to consider? Thanks, Alec _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 6 16:30:05 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 May 2016 20:30:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers In-Reply-To: References: <256175542.3714602.1461103752771.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1186046597.3852829.1461108921075.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <33568F3C-C027-4EC4-8418-567B34A25587@gmail.com> <02B6EB4C-E428-4115-97AC-6EAF0DF2FAFE@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1437244349.3815.1462566605484.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,I nearly ordered joysticks from this British firm, however the freight costwas excessive.Industrial Joysticks by CH Products APEM, industrial and miniature professional switches, pusbuttons, lever and rocker switches, piezoswitches | | | Industrial Joysticks by CH Products APEM, industrial and miniature professional switches, pusbuttons, lever and rocke... By Or?alys APEM, manufacturer of man-machine interfaces since 1952. APEM develops and manufactures professional switches, ... | | | There is a literal smorgasbord of combinations, like hall or potentiometer, 5k or 10kindustrial & semi industrial, waterproof etc. You can configure to your specificationswithin their options. They all seem to have the "boot" option, & you could always addsilicon to the boot to make it even more water proof. Not cheap.With something like controls you can always go cheap first & see how you like it, &change later.?While you are in the design stage why not incorporate a plug for a future foot control?Alan? From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 7, 2016 4:49 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers A couple of reasons... After chewing on this and hearing feedback from you guys, what I would like from a UI perspective is a combination of Alan's "tractor control" and what I had in Snoopy.? Let's start with the stern thrusters, for which I really like the "tractor control" paradigm. We considered a pair of small single axis joysticks for the stern thrusters. One shortcoming is that they have only 20 or 25 degrees of movement each forward or aft of center. As they're small, and the full throttle gets applied over those 25 degrees, it could be a bit too sensitive. In addition, I would like the control not to have any spring return so that the boat keeps going and I can momentarily take my hands off the controls. We did find a mini-joystick without spring return, but it only had 20 degree range. The pots I used on Snoopy had 270 degrees. Like in Snoopy, what we would do is mount these on the sides (not top) of the control box, and put handles on them rather than knobs. We would mount them so the handles are vertical in the dead zone, and if we can add some sort of mechanical clicker to indicate that position. Like in Snoopy, the pots will have O rings on the shafts. The side thrusters are a bit trickier.?On Snoopy I used to dive positive and used one of the pots to throttle both side thrusters simultaneously. It worked like a charm, it was like having a "depth control." But on the new sub the side thrusters are angled outward, so we will want differential throttling in order to crab, even though I expect crabbing to be relatively rare. From a UI perspective my first choice would have been to control the side thrusters with two parallel slider pots. I would align them right next to each other on the face of the control box, facing fore-aft. For downward thrust slide both down together, for surfacing thrust slide them up. In my experience the side thruster settings are much more static than the stern thrusters, you don't change depth as much as you change direction horizontally. In the rare event you need to crab this is a bit counter-intuitive but you would move the sliders in opposite directions. However, there is a fatal flaw in that plan - we could not find any sliders that are IP66 or IP67 rated, and it's a basic requirement that the control box should survive a direct hit by a wave, or even being dropped in the ocean. We looked at thumb-wheels, which would be almost as nice as the sliders, but those too have watertightness issues. So at the moment the thinking is to use the same trick as for the stern thrusters, but with really tiny handles and the pots perhaps in a small box mounted on top of the main control box. If anyone has any suggestions for something more intuitive that is watertight, I'm all ears! This has been a very valuable discussion thread to me, I really appreciate the input. Thanks, Alec? On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, why not use off the conventional ?2 or thee axis joys sticks rather than individually?controlling 4 potentiometers connected to motor controllers?? It is very easy to have the joysticks act like the pots that are hard wired on the MK controller boards.? Just cut the pots off.? Three wires are left, 5V supply, signal and ground.? Each of the axis on a joystick is typically something like a hall affect potentiometer so you send it 5v and get back as signal a between 0-5vdc signal.? I know KISS principle is important to you but this is very KISS.? You don't need a PLC.? Cliff On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, It appears the MK controller will do just what I need it to, but there is one detail that has be a bit concerned. From what I see it appears the main motor current is all going through a single spade connector. Close to 50 amps through one of those little guys is a lot, and the connectors themselves don't take very fat cables. Have you had any issues with that?? Thanks, Alec On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 10:38 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: http://m.ebay.com/itm/MINN-KOTA-TRAXXIS-TROLLING-MOTOR-MAIN-CONTROL-BOARD-PN-2184017-OR-2184027-/371336409933 Standard part that can be ordered just about everywhere.? Shows up on eBay quite often.? MK part no. ?is 2184017. Cliff Redus On Apr 19, 2016, at 9:24 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff.?Is the controller a component you?pulled from inside the MK trolling motor or is it a standalone product??I did a?few searches and have not turned up anything standalone. I do have such a unit (really old) but it's for a way lower-powered motor than the 101s. Best, Alec? On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 9:58 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan/Alec, I use Minn Kota 36v controllers for each of my 4 thrusters.? They have worked great.? They are potted and rugged.? They have an internal relay with a dead band around 2.5v signal voltage.? This means that absolutely no current flows even if you left the motor controller powered up while in the garage. My previous motor controller for my big traction motor was from Curtis.? This worked great but generated a high pitch noise that was irritating. Cliff Redus On Apr 19, 2016, at 6:35 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: What did Cliff use?He has been through this process recently with a 101.Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers No, the one I was considering was not for brushless motors. It's the Roboteq XDC2460, rated for 80A continuous duty per channel. But now I'm looking at Kelly I really like what I'm seeing there too, and?Curtis seems to be similar. This will probably come down to a decision between a more advanced? dual channel from Roboteq or a super simple single-channel controllers from the likes of Curtis/Kelly. In general if the simpler one can do the job, it's the one I would prefer even if it cost the same. Thanks guys for all the input! Alec On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alec,that one says brushless?On the Kelly faq page for selecting controllers it suggests..... HOW TO CHOOSE A SUITABLE CONTROLLER FOR THE MOTOR? Usually the performance will be optimized if the power of the controller is 2.0-3.0 times of the motor's.?? I guess that means if you have a 2000W motor you get a controller whose continualamp rating X max voltage is at least 4000W.?? I have heard that it is better to aire on the safe side as some manufacturers over ratetheir controllers. Kelly have a reputation of being good & cheap, & their ratings?accurate,however Hugh has had problems with them & I wired up mine yesterday & the ON lightisn't working when powered up. I put power on it once without the pre-ignition resisterso this may have stuffed it, but surely it wouldn't be so fickle!Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 9:45 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers Hi all, I need to finalize my selection of speed controllers for Shackleton over the next week or so, and at first blush am looking at this one from Roboteq: http://www.roboteq.com/index.php/docman/motor-controllers-documents-and-files/documentation/datasheets/hbl23xx/59-hbl23xx-datasheet/file There will be two of them, each driving?a pair of?MK101 thrusters. Roboteq offers a controller family that is a step down from this and still handles the required amperage, and which?is tempting because it's much less expensive. However, the specs are too close for comfort (50A continuous duty rating vs. MK101 requirement of?46A). Anyone have any suggestions for other cost-effective controllers to consider? Thanks, Alec _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 6 17:09:30 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 May 2016 16:09:30 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers In-Reply-To: References: <256175542.3714602.1461103752771.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1186046597.3852829.1461108921075.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <33568F3C-C027-4EC4-8418-567B34A25587@gmail.com> <02B6EB4C-E428-4115-97AC-6EAF0DF2FAFE@gmail.com> Message-ID: Alec, in my boat I really like the spring return on the joystick for all three axis. I can not see my thrusters and don't have any active feedback on thruster speed so being able to take my hand off the joystick and or foot peddle and have the boat slow to a stop and stabilize in the water column is nice. The one control that lends itself to non spring return is the vertical thrusters for all the reasons you mention. With boats like yours in which you have a big spread between CG-CB and are not trying to control pitch you might consider using a single 3-axis joy stick with forward-aft joystick direction controlling forward and aft boat movement via aft horizontal thrusters. Port and starboard direction on joystick controlling port and starboard crabbing motion via your tilted vertical thrusters. The Z axis on the joystick controling rotating in a clockwise or counterclockwise direction about the CG using the techniques I use on my boat which is using this signal to add and subtract voltage to the aft thrusters. For depth station keeping use a hall effect slider or thumb wheel. I am sure you can find both the joystick and the slider/thumbwheel with a IP67 rating. To link Z axis signal, you can use a PLC like I use or could get your electrics guy to design a small custom PCB that do the same thing. A nice benefit of controlling the four thrusters as described is that you only need one hand and to me is very intuitive. One last point. the MK 101 controller boards generate a very non linear response to a linear input signal and have a large dead band around 2.5 volts. The net effect of this is you have very high low speed control of the motor. Near the dead band you can get the prop to spin at super slow speed like one revelation per 5 seconds. On my bollard thrust testing rig, I measure the rpm of the MK101 motor and can log motor speed (as well as current and supply voltage) as function of the 0-5v control signal to the motor controller card. On my to do list is to plot this to show this nice non linear behavior. I think the MK guys designed this way to give the trolling motor a lot of control for slow speed maneuvering. Cliff On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 11:49 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > A couple of reasons... After chewing on this and hearing feedback from you > guys, what I would like from a UI perspective is a combination of Alan's > "tractor control" and what I had in Snoopy. > > Let's start with the stern thrusters, for which I really like the "tractor > control" paradigm. We considered a pair of small single axis joysticks for > the stern thrusters. One shortcoming is that they have only 20 or 25 > degrees of movement each forward or aft of center. As they're small, and > the full throttle gets applied over those 25 degrees, it could be a bit too > sensitive. In addition, I would like the control not to have any spring > return so that the boat keeps going and I can momentarily take my hands off > the controls. We did find a mini-joystick without spring return, but it > only had 20 degree range. The pots I used on Snoopy had 270 degrees. Like > in Snoopy, what we would do is mount these on the sides (not top) of the > control box, and put handles on them rather than knobs. We would mount them > so the handles are vertical in the dead zone, and if we can add some sort > of mechanical clicker to indicate that position. Like in Snoopy, the pots > will have O rings on the shafts. > > The side thrusters are a bit trickier. On Snoopy I used to dive positive > and used one of the pots to throttle both side thrusters simultaneously. It > worked like a charm, it was like having a "depth control." But on the new > sub the side thrusters are angled outward, so we will want differential > throttling in order to crab, even though I expect crabbing to be relatively > rare. From a UI perspective my first choice would have been to control the > side thrusters with two parallel slider pots. I would align them right next > to each other on the face of the control box, facing fore-aft. For downward > thrust slide both down together, for surfacing thrust slide them up. In my > experience the side thruster settings are much more static than the stern > thrusters, you don't change depth as much as you change direction > horizontally. In the rare event you need to crab this is a bit > counter-intuitive but you would move the sliders in opposite directions. > However, there is a fatal flaw in that plan - we could not find any sliders > that are IP66 or IP67 rated, and it's a basic requirement that the control > box should survive a direct hit by a wave, or even being dropped in the > ocean. We looked at thumb-wheels, which would be almost as nice as the > sliders, but those too have watertightness issues. So at the moment the > thinking is to use the same trick as for the stern thrusters, but with > really tiny handles and the pots perhaps in a small box mounted on top of > the main control box. If anyone has any suggestions for something more > intuitive that is watertight, I'm all ears! This has been a very valuable > discussion thread to me, I really appreciate the input. > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > > > On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Alec, why not use off the conventional 2 or thee axis joys sticks rather >> than individually controlling 4 potentiometers connected to motor >> controllers? It is very easy to have the joysticks act like the pots that >> are hard wired on the MK controller boards. Just cut the pots off. Three >> wires are left, 5V supply, signal and ground. Each of the axis on a >> joystick is typically something like a hall affect potentiometer so you >> send it 5v and get back as signal a between 0-5vdc signal. >> I know KISS principle is important to you but this is very KISS. You >> don't need a PLC. >> >> Cliff >> >> On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi Cliff, >>> >>> It appears the MK controller will do just what I need it to, but there >>> is one detail that has be a bit concerned. From what I see it appears the >>> main motor current is all going through a single spade connector. Close to >>> 50 amps through one of those little guys is a lot, and the connectors >>> themselves don't take very fat cables. Have you had any issues with that? >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 10:38 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> http://m.ebay.com/itm/MINN-KOTA-TRAXXIS-TROLLING-MOTOR-MAIN-CONTROL-BOARD-PN-2184017-OR-2184027-/371336409933 >>>> >>>> Standard part that can be ordered just about everywhere. Shows up on >>>> eBay quite often. MK part no. is 2184017. >>>> >>>> >>>> Cliff Redus >>>> >>>> On Apr 19, 2016, at 9:24 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks Cliff. Is the controller a component you pulled from inside the >>>> MK trolling motor or is it a standalone product? I did a few searches and >>>> have not turned up anything standalone. I do have such a unit (really old) >>>> but it's for a way lower-powered motor than the 101s. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Alec >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 9:58 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Alan/Alec, I use Minn Kota 36v controllers for each of my 4 >>>>> thrusters. They have worked great. They are potted and rugged. They have >>>>> an internal relay with a dead band around 2.5v signal voltage. This means >>>>> that absolutely no current flows even if you left the motor controller >>>>> powered up while in the garage. >>>>> >>>>> My previous motor controller for my big traction motor was from >>>>> Curtis. This worked great but generated a high pitch noise that was >>>>> irritating. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Cliff Redus >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 19, 2016, at 6:35 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> What did Cliff use? >>>>> He has been through this process recently with a 101. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> *From:* Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 20, 2016 11:12 AM >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers >>>>> >>>>> No, the one I was considering was not for brushless motors. It's the >>>>> Roboteq XDC2460, rated for 80A continuous duty per channel. But now I'm >>>>> looking at Kelly I really like what I'm seeing there too, and Curtis seems >>>>> to be similar. This will probably come down to a decision between a more >>>>> advanced dual channel from Roboteq or a super simple single-channel >>>>> controllers from the likes of Curtis/Kelly. In general if the simpler one >>>>> can do the job, it's the one I would prefer even if it cost the same. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks guys for all the input! >>>>> >>>>> Alec >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Alec, >>>>> that one says brushless? >>>>> On the Kelly faq page for selecting controllers it suggests..... >>>>> HOW TO CHOOSE A SUITABLE CONTROLLER FOR THE MOTOR? >>>>> Usually the performance will be optimized if the power of the >>>>> controller is 2.0-3.0 times of the motor's. >>>>> I guess that means if you have a 2000W motor you get a controller >>>>> whose continual >>>>> amp rating X max voltage is at least 4000W. >>>>> I have heard that it is better to aire on the safe side as some >>>>> manufacturers over rate >>>>> their controllers. Kelly have a reputation of being good & cheap, & >>>>> their ratings accurate, >>>>> however Hugh has had problems with them & I wired up mine yesterday & >>>>> the ON light >>>>> isn't working when powered up. I put power on it once without the >>>>> pre-ignition resister >>>>> so this may have stuffed it, but surely it wouldn't be so fickle! >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> *From:* Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 20, 2016 9:45 AM >>>>> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I need to finalize my selection of speed controllers for Shackleton >>>>> over the next week or so, and at first blush am looking at this one from >>>>> Roboteq: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://www.roboteq.com/index.php/docman/motor-controllers-documents-and-files/documentation/datasheets/hbl23xx/59-hbl23xx-datasheet/file >>>>> >>>>> There will be two of them, each driving a pair of MK101 thrusters. >>>>> Roboteq offers a controller family that is a step down from this and still >>>>> handles the required amperage, and which is tempting because it's much less >>>>> expensive. However, the specs are too close for comfort (50A continuous >>>>> duty rating vs. MK101 requirement of 46A). >>>>> >>>>> Anyone have any suggestions for other cost-effective controllers to >>>>> consider? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Alec >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 6 18:07:04 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 May 2016 22:07:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <302733859.47235.1462572424367.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> What about these http://www.potentiometers.com/AQMLT.cfm From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 6, 2016 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers Alec, in my boat I really like the spring return on the joystick for all three axis.? I can not see my thrusters and don't have any active feedback on thruster speed so being able to take my hand off the joystick and or foot peddle and have the boat?slow to a stop and stabilize in the?water column is nice.? The one control that lends itself to non spring return is the vertical thrusters for all the reasons you mention. With boats like yours in which you have a big spread?between CG-CB and are not trying to control pitch you might consider using?a?single 3-axis joy stick with forward-aft joystick direction controlling forward and aft boat movement via aft horizontal thrusters.??Port and?starboard direction on joystick controlling port and starboard crabbing motion via?your tilted vertical thrusters.??The?Z?axis on the joystick? controling rotating?in a clockwise or counterclockwise direction about the CG using the techniques I use on my boat?which is using?this signal to add?and subtract voltage to the aft thrusters.??For depth station keeping use a hall effect ?slider or thumb wheel.??I am sure you can find both the joystick and the slider/thumbwheel??with a IP67 rating.?? To link Z axis signal, you can use a PLC like I use or could get your electrics guy to design a small custom PCB that do the same thing.? A nice benefit of controlling the four thrusters as described is that you only need one hand and to me is very intuitive. One last point.? the MK 101 controller boards generate a very non linear response to a linear input signal?and have a large dead band around 2.5 volts.? The net effect of this is you have very high? low speed control of the motor.?Near the dead band you can get the prop to spin at super slow speed like? one revelation per 5 seconds.? On my bollard?thrust testing rig, I measure the rpm of the MK101?motor and can log motor speed (as well as current and supply voltage) as function of the 0-5v control signal to the motor controller card.? On my to do list is to plot this to show this nice non linear behavior.?? I think the MK guys designed this way to give the trolling motor a lot of control for slow speed maneuvering. Cliff On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 11:49 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: A couple of reasons... After chewing on this and hearing feedback from you guys, what I would like from a UI perspective is a combination of Alan's "tractor control" and what I had in Snoopy.? Let's start with the stern thrusters, for which I really like the "tractor control" paradigm. We considered a pair of small single axis joysticks for the stern thrusters. One shortcoming is that they have only 20 or 25 degrees of movement each forward or aft of center. As they're small, and the full throttle gets applied over those 25 degrees, it could be a bit too sensitive. In addition, I would like the control not to have any spring return so that the boat keeps going and I can momentarily take my hands off the controls. We did find a mini-joystick without spring return, but it only had 20 degree range. The pots I used on Snoopy had 270 degrees. Like in Snoopy, what we would do is mount these on the sides (not top) of the control box, and put handles on them rather than knobs. We would mount them so the handles are vertical in the dead zone, and if we can add some sort of mechanical clicker to indicate that position. Like in Snoopy, the pots will have O rings on the shafts. The side thrusters are a bit trickier.?On Snoopy I used to dive positive and used one of the pots to throttle both side thrusters simultaneously. It worked like a charm, it was like having a "depth control." But on the new sub the side thrusters are angled outward, so we will want differential throttling in order to crab, even though I expect crabbing to be relatively rare. From a UI perspective my first choice would have been to control the side thrusters with two parallel slider pots. I would align them right next to each other on the face of the control box, facing fore-aft. For downward thrust slide both down together, for surfacing thrust slide them up. In my experience the side thruster settings are much more static than the stern thrusters, you don't change depth as much as you change direction horizontally. In the rare event you need to crab this is a bit counter-intuitive but you would move the sliders in opposite directions. However, there is a fatal flaw in that plan - we could not find any sliders that are IP66 or IP67 rated, and it's a basic requirement that the control box should survive a direct hit by a wave, or even being dropped in the ocean. We looked at thumb-wheels, which would be almost as nice as the sliders, but those too have watertightness issues. So at the moment the thinking is to use the same trick as for the stern thrusters, but with really tiny handles and the pots perhaps in a small box mounted on top of the main control box. If anyone has any suggestions for something more intuitive that is watertight, I'm all ears! This has been a very valuable discussion thread to me, I really appreciate the input. Thanks, Alec? On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, why not use off the conventional ?2 or thee axis joys sticks rather than individually?controlling 4 potentiometers connected to motor controllers?? It is very easy to have the joysticks act like the pots that are hard wired on the MK controller boards.? Just cut the pots off.? Three wires are left, 5V supply, signal and ground.? Each of the axis on a joystick is typically something like a hall affect potentiometer so you send it 5v and get back as signal a between 0-5vdc signal.? I know KISS principle is important to you but this is very KISS.? You don't need a PLC.? Cliff On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, It appears the MK controller will do just what I need it to, but there is one detail that has be a bit concerned. From what I see it appears the main motor current is all going through a single spade connector. Close to 50 amps through one of those little guys is a lot, and the connectors themselves don't take very fat cables. Have you had any issues with that?? Thanks, Alec On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 10:38 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: http://m.ebay.com/itm/MINN-KOTA-TRAXXIS-TROLLING-MOTOR-MAIN-CONTROL-BOARD-PN-2184017-OR-2184027-/371336409933 Standard part that can be ordered just about everywhere.? Shows up on eBay quite often.? MK part no. ?is 2184017. Cliff Redus On Apr 19, 2016, at 9:24 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff.?Is the controller a component you?pulled from inside the MK trolling motor or is it a standalone product??I did a?few searches and have not turned up anything standalone. I do have such a unit (really old) but it's for a way lower-powered motor than the 101s. Best, Alec? On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 9:58 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan/Alec, I use Minn Kota 36v controllers for each of my 4 thrusters.? They have worked great.? They are potted and rugged.? They have an internal relay with a dead band around 2.5v signal voltage.? This means that absolutely no current flows even if you left the motor controller powered up while in the garage. My previous motor controller for my big traction motor was from Curtis.? This worked great but generated a high pitch noise that was irritating. Cliff Redus On Apr 19, 2016, at 6:35 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: What did Cliff use?He has been through this process recently with a 101.Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers No, the one I was considering was not for brushless motors. It's the Roboteq XDC2460, rated for 80A continuous duty per channel. But now I'm looking at Kelly I really like what I'm seeing there too, and?Curtis seems to be similar. This will probably come down to a decision between a more advanced? dual channel from Roboteq or a super simple single-channel controllers from the likes of Curtis/Kelly. In general if the simpler one can do the job, it's the one I would prefer even if it cost the same. Thanks guys for all the input! Alec On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alec,that one says brushless?On the Kelly faq page for selecting controllers it suggests..... HOW TO CHOOSE A SUITABLE CONTROLLER FOR THE MOTOR? Usually the performance will be optimized if the power of the controller is 2.0-3.0 times of the motor's.?? I guess that means if you have a 2000W motor you get a controller whose continualamp rating X max voltage is at least 4000W.?? I have heard that it is better to aire on the safe side as some manufacturers over ratetheir controllers. Kelly have a reputation of being good & cheap, & their ratings?accurate,however Hugh has had problems with them & I wired up mine yesterday & the ON lightisn't working when powered up. I put power on it once without the pre-ignition resisterso this may have stuffed it, but surely it wouldn't be so fickle!Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 9:45 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers Hi all, I need to finalize my selection of speed controllers for Shackleton over the next week or so, and at first blush am looking at this one from Roboteq: http://www.roboteq.com/index.php/docman/motor-controllers-documents-and-files/documentation/datasheets/hbl23xx/59-hbl23xx-datasheet/file There will be two of them, each driving?a pair of?MK101 thrusters. Roboteq offers a controller family that is a step down from this and still handles the required amperage, and which?is tempting because it's much less expensive. However, the specs are too close for comfort (50A continuous duty rating vs. MK101 requirement of?46A). Anyone have any suggestions for other cost-effective controllers to consider? Thanks, Alec _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 6 18:51:26 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 May 2016 22:51:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers In-Reply-To: <302733859.47235.1462572424367.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <302733859.47235.1462572424367.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1086172226.99330.1462575086996.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> That looks like a neat little product Pete.I could see other applications for it like a water levelindicator if it had floats attached. ?? A home made version would be possible.??? I bought & waterproofed / depth proofed?a magnetic linear &rotary potentiometer that had a ball bearing that moved & changed resitancewhen influenced by a magnet. If it was subjected to a hard jolt the ball bearinghad the potential to drop out of synch with the magnet though.Alan From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 7, 2016 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers What about these http://www.potentiometers.com/AQMLT.cfm From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 6, 2016 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers Alec, in my boat I really like the spring return on the joystick for all three axis.? I can not see my thrusters and don't have any active feedback on thruster speed so being able to take my hand off the joystick and or foot peddle and have the boat?slow to a stop and stabilize in the?water column is nice.? The one control that lends itself to non spring return is the vertical thrusters for all the reasons you mention. With boats like yours in which you have a big spread?between CG-CB and are not trying to control pitch you might consider using?a?single 3-axis joy stick with forward-aft joystick direction controlling forward and aft boat movement via aft horizontal thrusters.??Port and?starboard direction on joystick controlling port and starboard crabbing motion via?your tilted vertical thrusters.??The?Z?axis on the joystick? controling rotating?in a clockwise or counterclockwise direction about the CG using the techniques I use on my boat?which is using?this signal to add?and subtract voltage to the aft thrusters.??For depth station keeping use a hall effect ?slider or thumb wheel.??I am sure you can find both the joystick and the slider/thumbwheel??with a IP67 rating.?? To link Z axis signal, you can use a PLC like I use or could get your electrics guy to design a small custom PCB that do the same thing.? A nice benefit of controlling the four thrusters as described is that you only need one hand and to me is very intuitive. One last point.? the MK 101 controller boards generate a very non linear response to a linear input signal?and have a large dead band around 2.5 volts.? The net effect of this is you have very high? low speed control of the motor.?Near the dead band you can get the prop to spin at super slow speed like? one revelation per 5 seconds.? On my bollard?thrust testing rig, I measure the rpm of the MK101?motor and can log motor speed (as well as current and supply voltage) as function of the 0-5v control signal to the motor controller card.? On my to do list is to plot this to show this nice non linear behavior.?? I think the MK guys designed this way to give the trolling motor a lot of control for slow speed maneuvering. Cliff On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 11:49 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: A couple of reasons... After chewing on this and hearing feedback from you guys, what I would like from a UI perspective is a combination of Alan's "tractor control" and what I had in Snoopy.? Let's start with the stern thrusters, for which I really like the "tractor control" paradigm. We considered a pair of small single axis joysticks for the stern thrusters. One shortcoming is that they have only 20 or 25 degrees of movement each forward or aft of center. As they're small, and the full throttle gets applied over those 25 degrees, it could be a bit too sensitive. In addition, I would like the control not to have any spring return so that the boat keeps going and I can momentarily take my hands off the controls. We did find a mini-joystick without spring return, but it only had 20 degree range. The pots I used on Snoopy had 270 degrees. Like in Snoopy, what we would do is mount these on the sides (not top) of the control box, and put handles on them rather than knobs. We would mount them so the handles are vertical in the dead zone, and if we can add some sort of mechanical clicker to indicate that position. Like in Snoopy, the pots will have O rings on the shafts. The side thrusters are a bit trickier.?On Snoopy I used to dive positive and used one of the pots to throttle both side thrusters simultaneously. It worked like a charm, it was like having a "depth control." But on the new sub the side thrusters are angled outward, so we will want differential throttling in order to crab, even though I expect crabbing to be relatively rare. From a UI perspective my first choice would have been to control the side thrusters with two parallel slider pots. I would align them right next to each other on the face of the control box, facing fore-aft. For downward thrust slide both down together, for surfacing thrust slide them up. In my experience the side thruster settings are much more static than the stern thrusters, you don't change depth as much as you change direction horizontally. In the rare event you need to crab this is a bit counter-intuitive but you would move the sliders in opposite directions. However, there is a fatal flaw in that plan - we could not find any sliders that are IP66 or IP67 rated, and it's a basic requirement that the control box should survive a direct hit by a wave, or even being dropped in the ocean. We looked at thumb-wheels, which would be almost as nice as the sliders, but those too have watertightness issues. So at the moment the thinking is to use the same trick as for the stern thrusters, but with really tiny handles and the pots perhaps in a small box mounted on top of the main control box. If anyone has any suggestions for something more intuitive that is watertight, I'm all ears! This has been a very valuable discussion thread to me, I really appreciate the input. Thanks, Alec? On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, why not use off the conventional ?2 or thee axis joys sticks rather than individually?controlling 4 potentiometers connected to motor controllers?? It is very easy to have the joysticks act like the pots that are hard wired on the MK controller boards.? Just cut the pots off.? Three wires are left, 5V supply, signal and ground.? Each of the axis on a joystick is typically something like a hall affect potentiometer so you send it 5v and get back as signal a between 0-5vdc signal.? I know KISS principle is important to you but this is very KISS.? You don't need a PLC.? Cliff On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, It appears the MK controller will do just what I need it to, but there is one detail that has be a bit concerned. From what I see it appears the main motor current is all going through a single spade connector. Close to 50 amps through one of those little guys is a lot, and the connectors themselves don't take very fat cables. Have you had any issues with that?? Thanks, Alec On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 10:38 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: http://m.ebay.com/itm/MINN-KOTA-TRAXXIS-TROLLING-MOTOR-MAIN-CONTROL-BOARD-PN-2184017-OR-2184027-/371336409933 Standard part that can be ordered just about everywhere.? Shows up on eBay quite often.? MK part no. ?is 2184017. Cliff Redus On Apr 19, 2016, at 9:24 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff.?Is the controller a component you?pulled from inside the MK trolling motor or is it a standalone product??I did a?few searches and have not turned up anything standalone. I do have such a unit (really old) but it's for a way lower-powered motor than the 101s. Best, Alec? On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 9:58 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan/Alec, I use Minn Kota 36v controllers for each of my 4 thrusters.? They have worked great.? They are potted and rugged.? They have an internal relay with a dead band around 2.5v signal voltage.? This means that absolutely no current flows even if you left the motor controller powered up while in the garage. My previous motor controller for my big traction motor was from Curtis.? This worked great but generated a high pitch noise that was irritating. Cliff Redus On Apr 19, 2016, at 6:35 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: What did Cliff use?He has been through this process recently with a 101.Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers No, the one I was considering was not for brushless motors. It's the Roboteq XDC2460, rated for 80A continuous duty per channel. But now I'm looking at Kelly I really like what I'm seeing there too, and?Curtis seems to be similar. This will probably come down to a decision between a more advanced? dual channel from Roboteq or a super simple single-channel controllers from the likes of Curtis/Kelly. In general if the simpler one can do the job, it's the one I would prefer even if it cost the same. Thanks guys for all the input! Alec On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alec,that one says brushless?On the Kelly faq page for selecting controllers it suggests..... HOW TO CHOOSE A SUITABLE CONTROLLER FOR THE MOTOR? Usually the performance will be optimized if the power of the controller is 2.0-3.0 times of the motor's.?? I guess that means if you have a 2000W motor you get a controller whose continualamp rating X max voltage is at least 4000W.?? I have heard that it is better to aire on the safe side as some manufacturers over ratetheir controllers. Kelly have a reputation of being good & cheap, & their ratings?accurate,however Hugh has had problems with them & I wired up mine yesterday & the ON lightisn't working when powered up. I put power on it once without the pre-ignition resisterso this may have stuffed it, but surely it wouldn't be so fickle!Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 9:45 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers Hi all, I need to finalize my selection of speed controllers for Shackleton over the next week or so, and at first blush am looking at this one from Roboteq: http://www.roboteq.com/index.php/docman/motor-controllers-documents-and-files/documentation/datasheets/hbl23xx/59-hbl23xx-datasheet/file There will be two of them, each driving?a pair of?MK101 thrusters. Roboteq offers a controller family that is a step down from this and still handles the required amperage, and which?is tempting because it's much less expensive. However, the specs are too close for comfort (50A continuous duty rating vs. MK101 requirement of?46A). Anyone have any suggestions for other cost-effective controllers to consider? Thanks, Alec _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 6 20:52:03 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 May 2016 20:52:03 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers In-Reply-To: <1086172226.99330.1462575086996.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <302733859.47235.1462572424367.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1086172226.99330.1462575086996.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6EA737C3-6AF3-41DB-90F0-64FFD9F4D7EE@gmail.com> The only thing that signals trouble is "contact us for quotation" instead of a listed price! > On May 6, 2016, at 6:51 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > That looks like a neat little product Pete. > I could see other applications for it like a water level > indicator if it had floats attached. > A home made version would be possible. > I bought & waterproofed / depth proofed a magnetic linear & > rotary potentiometer that had a ball bearing that moved & changed resitance > when influenced by a magnet. If it was subjected to a hard jolt the ball bearing > had the potential to drop out of synch with the magnet though. > Alan > > From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, May 7, 2016 10:07 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers > > What about these > > http://www.potentiometers.com/AQMLT.cfm > > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, May 6, 2016 4:09 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers > > Alec, in my boat I really like the spring return on the joystick for all three axis. I can not see my thrusters and don't have any active feedback on thruster speed so being able to take my hand off the joystick and or foot peddle and have the boat slow to a stop and stabilize in the water column is nice. The one control that lends itself to non spring return is the vertical thrusters for all the reasons you mention. > > With boats like yours in which you have a big spread between CG-CB and are not trying to control pitch you might consider using a single 3-axis joy stick with forward-aft joystick direction controlling forward and aft boat movement via aft horizontal thrusters. Port and starboard direction on joystick controlling port and starboard crabbing motion via your tilted vertical thrusters. The Z axis on the joystick controling rotating in a clockwise or counterclockwise direction about the CG using the techniques I use on my boat which is using this signal to add and subtract voltage to the aft thrusters. For depth station keeping use a hall effect slider or thumb wheel. I am sure you can find both the joystick and the slider/thumbwheel with a IP67 rating. To link Z axis signal, you can use a PLC like I use or could get your electrics guy to design a small custom PCB that do the same thing. A nice benefit of controlling the four thrusters as described is that you only need one hand and to me is very intuitive. > > One last point. the MK 101 controller boards generate a very non linear response to a linear input signal and have a large dead band around 2.5 volts. The net effect of this is you have very high low speed control of the motor. Near the dead band you can get the prop to spin at super slow speed like one revelation per 5 seconds. > > On my bollard thrust testing rig, I measure the rpm of the MK101 motor and can log motor speed (as well as current and supply voltage) as function of the 0-5v control signal to the motor controller card. On my to do list is to plot this to show this nice non linear behavior. I think the MK guys designed this way to give the trolling motor a lot of control for slow speed maneuvering. > > Cliff > > On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 11:49 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > A couple of reasons... After chewing on this and hearing feedback from you guys, what I would like from a UI perspective is a combination of Alan's "tractor control" and what I had in Snoopy. > > Let's start with the stern thrusters, for which I really like the "tractor control" paradigm. We considered a pair of small single axis joysticks for the stern thrusters. One shortcoming is that they have only 20 or 25 degrees of movement each forward or aft of center. As they're small, and the full throttle gets applied over those 25 degrees, it could be a bit too sensitive. In addition, I would like the control not to have any spring return so that the boat keeps going and I can momentarily take my hands off the controls. We did find a mini-joystick without spring return, but it only had 20 degree range. The pots I used on Snoopy had 270 degrees. Like in Snoopy, what we would do is mount these on the sides (not top) of the control box, and put handles on them rather than knobs. We would mount them so the handles are vertical in the dead zone, and if we can add some sort of mechanical clicker to indicate that position. Like in Snoopy, the pots will have O rings on the shafts. > > The side thrusters are a bit trickier. On Snoopy I used to dive positive and used one of the pots to throttle both side thrusters simultaneously. It worked like a charm, it was like having a "depth control." But on the new sub the side thrusters are angled outward, so we will want differential throttling in order to crab, even though I expect crabbing to be relatively rare. From a UI perspective my first choice would have been to control the side thrusters with two parallel slider pots. I would align them right next to each other on the face of the control box, facing fore-aft. For downward thrust slide both down together, for surfacing thrust slide them up. In my experience the side thruster settings are much more static than the stern thrusters, you don't change depth as much as you change direction horizontally. In the rare event you need to crab this is a bit counter-intuitive but you would move the sliders in opposite directions. However, there is a fatal flaw in that plan - we could not find any sliders that are IP66 or IP67 rated, and it's a basic requirement that the control box should survive a direct hit by a wave, or even being dropped in the ocean. We looked at thumb-wheels, which would be almost as nice as the sliders, but those too have watertightness issues. So at the moment the thinking is to use the same trick as for the stern thrusters, but with really tiny handles and the pots perhaps in a small box mounted on top of the main control box. If anyone has any suggestions for something more intuitive that is watertight, I'm all ears! This has been a very valuable discussion thread to me, I really appreciate the input. > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > > > On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Alec, why not use off the conventional 2 or thee axis joys sticks rather than individually controlling 4 potentiometers connected to motor controllers? It is very easy to have the joysticks act like the pots that are hard wired on the MK controller boards. Just cut the pots off. Three wires are left, 5V supply, signal and ground. Each of the axis on a joystick is typically something like a hall affect potentiometer so you send it 5v and get back as signal a between 0-5vdc signal. > I know KISS principle is important to you but this is very KISS. You don't need a PLC. > > Cliff > > On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Cliff, > > It appears the MK controller will do just what I need it to, but there is one detail that has be a bit concerned. From what I see it appears the main motor current is all going through a single spade connector. Close to 50 amps through one of those little guys is a lot, and the connectors themselves don't take very fat cables. Have you had any issues with that? > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 10:38 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > http://m.ebay.com/itm/MINN-KOTA-TRAXXIS-TROLLING-MOTOR-MAIN-CONTROL-BOARD-PN-2184017-OR-2184027-/371336409933 > > Standard part that can be ordered just about everywhere. Shows up on eBay quite often. MK part no. is 2184017. > > > Cliff Redus > >> On Apr 19, 2016, at 9:24 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Thanks Cliff. Is the controller a component you pulled from inside the MK trolling motor or is it a standalone product? I did a few searches and have not turned up anything standalone. I do have such a unit (really old) but it's for a way lower-powered motor than the 101s. >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 9:58 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alan/Alec, I use Minn Kota 36v controllers for each of my 4 thrusters. They have worked great. They are potted and rugged. They have an internal relay with a dead band around 2.5v signal voltage. This means that absolutely no current flows even if you left the motor controller powered up while in the garage. >> >> My previous motor controller for my big traction motor was from Curtis. This worked great but generated a high pitch noise that was irritating. >> >> >> Cliff Redus >> >>> On Apr 19, 2016, at 6:35 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> What did Cliff use? >>> He has been through this process recently with a 101. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 11:12 AM >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers >>> >>> No, the one I was considering was not for brushless motors. It's the Roboteq XDC2460, rated for 80A continuous duty per channel. But now I'm looking at Kelly I really like what I'm seeing there too, and Curtis seems to be similar. This will probably come down to a decision between a more advanced dual channel from Roboteq or a super simple single-channel controllers from the likes of Curtis/Kelly. In general if the simpler one can do the job, it's the one I would prefer even if it cost the same. >>> >>> Thanks guys for all the input! >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Hi Alec, >>> that one says brushless? >>> On the Kelly faq page for selecting controllers it suggests..... >>> HOW TO CHOOSE A SUITABLE CONTROLLER FOR THE MOTOR? >>> Usually the performance will be optimized if the power of the controller is 2.0-3.0 times of the motor's. >>> I guess that means if you have a 2000W motor you get a controller whose continual >>> amp rating X max voltage is at least 4000W. >>> I have heard that it is better to aire on the safe side as some manufacturers over rate >>> their controllers. Kelly have a reputation of being good & cheap, & their ratings accurate, >>> however Hugh has had problems with them & I wired up mine yesterday & the ON light >>> isn't working when powered up. I put power on it once without the pre-ignition resister >>> so this may have stuffed it, but surely it wouldn't be so fickle! >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 9:45 AM >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I need to finalize my selection of speed controllers for Shackleton over the next week or so, and at first blush am looking at this one from Roboteq: >>> >>> http://www.roboteq.com/index.php/docman/motor-controllers-documents-and-files/documentation/datasheets/hbl23xx/59-hbl23xx-datasheet/file >>> >>> There will be two of them, each driving a pair of MK101 thrusters. Roboteq offers a controller family that is a step down from this and still handles the required amperage, and which is tempting because it's much less expensive. However, the specs are too close for comfort (50A continuous duty rating vs. MK101 requirement of 46A). >>> >>> Anyone have any suggestions for other cost-effective controllers to consider? >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 6 21:03:38 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 May 2016 21:03:38 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers In-Reply-To: References: <256175542.3714602.1461103752771.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1186046597.3852829.1461108921075.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <33568F3C-C027-4EC4-8418-567B34A25587@gmail.com> <02B6EB4C-E428-4115-97AC-6EAF0DF2FAFE@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1D6707C7-29D0-433A-8C91-9441CB4F1C50@gmail.com> Great stuff Cliff, thanks. I'll be back to design conversations! > On May 6, 2016, at 5:09 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alec, in my boat I really like the spring return on the joystick for all three axis. I can not see my thrusters and don't have any active feedback on thruster speed so being able to take my hand off the joystick and or foot peddle and have the boat slow to a stop and stabilize in the water column is nice. The one control that lends itself to non spring return is the vertical thrusters for all the reasons you mention. > > With boats like yours in which you have a big spread between CG-CB and are not trying to control pitch you might consider using a single 3-axis joy stick with forward-aft joystick direction controlling forward and aft boat movement via aft horizontal thrusters. Port and starboard direction on joystick controlling port and starboard crabbing motion via your tilted vertical thrusters. The Z axis on the joystick controling rotating in a clockwise or counterclockwise direction about the CG using the techniques I use on my boat which is using this signal to add and subtract voltage to the aft thrusters. For depth station keeping use a hall effect slider or thumb wheel. I am sure you can find both the joystick and the slider/thumbwheel with a IP67 rating. To link Z axis signal, you can use a PLC like I use or could get your electrics guy to design a small custom PCB that do the same thing. A nice benefit of controlling the four thrusters as described is that you only need one hand and to me is very intuitive. > > One last point. the MK 101 controller boards generate a very non linear response to a linear input signal and have a large dead band around 2.5 volts. The net effect of this is you have very high low speed control of the motor. Near the dead band you can get the prop to spin at super slow speed like one revelation per 5 seconds. > > On my bollard thrust testing rig, I measure the rpm of the MK101 motor and can log motor speed (as well as current and supply voltage) as function of the 0-5v control signal to the motor controller card. On my to do list is to plot this to show this nice non linear behavior. I think the MK guys designed this way to give the trolling motor a lot of control for slow speed maneuvering. > > Cliff > > On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 11:49 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> A couple of reasons... After chewing on this and hearing feedback from you guys, what I would like from a UI perspective is a combination of Alan's "tractor control" and what I had in Snoopy. >> >> Let's start with the stern thrusters, for which I really like the "tractor control" paradigm. We considered a pair of small single axis joysticks for the stern thrusters. One shortcoming is that they have only 20 or 25 degrees of movement each forward or aft of center. As they're small, and the full throttle gets applied over those 25 degrees, it could be a bit too sensitive. In addition, I would like the control not to have any spring return so that the boat keeps going and I can momentarily take my hands off the controls. We did find a mini-joystick without spring return, but it only had 20 degree range. The pots I used on Snoopy had 270 degrees. Like in Snoopy, what we would do is mount these on the sides (not top) of the control box, and put handles on them rather than knobs. We would mount them so the handles are vertical in the dead zone, and if we can add some sort of mechanical clicker to indicate that position. Like in Snoopy, the pots will have O rings on the shafts. >> >> The side thrusters are a bit trickier. On Snoopy I used to dive positive and used one of the pots to throttle both side thrusters simultaneously. It worked like a charm, it was like having a "depth control." But on the new sub the side thrusters are angled outward, so we will want differential throttling in order to crab, even though I expect crabbing to be relatively rare. From a UI perspective my first choice would have been to control the side thrusters with two parallel slider pots. I would align them right next to each other on the face of the control box, facing fore-aft. For downward thrust slide both down together, for surfacing thrust slide them up. In my experience the side thruster settings are much more static than the stern thrusters, you don't change depth as much as you change direction horizontally. In the rare event you need to crab this is a bit counter-intuitive but you would move the sliders in opposite directions. However, there is a fatal flaw in that plan - we could not find any sliders that are IP66 or IP67 rated, and it's a basic requirement that the control box should survive a direct hit by a wave, or even being dropped in the ocean. We looked at thumb-wheels, which would be almost as nice as the sliders, but those too have watertightness issues. So at the moment the thinking is to use the same trick as for the stern thrusters, but with really tiny handles and the pots perhaps in a small box mounted on top of the main control box. If anyone has any suggestions for something more intuitive that is watertight, I'm all ears! This has been a very valuable discussion thread to me, I really appreciate the input. >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Alec >> >> >> >>> On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Alec, why not use off the conventional 2 or thee axis joys sticks rather than individually controlling 4 potentiometers connected to motor controllers? It is very easy to have the joysticks act like the pots that are hard wired on the MK controller boards. Just cut the pots off. Three wires are left, 5V supply, signal and ground. Each of the axis on a joystick is typically something like a hall affect potentiometer so you send it 5v and get back as signal a between 0-5vdc signal. >>> I know KISS principle is important to you but this is very KISS. You don't need a PLC. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>>> On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Hi Cliff, >>>> >>>> It appears the MK controller will do just what I need it to, but there is one detail that has be a bit concerned. From what I see it appears the main motor current is all going through a single spade connector. Close to 50 amps through one of those little guys is a lot, and the connectors themselves don't take very fat cables. Have you had any issues with that? >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Alec >>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 10:38 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> http://m.ebay.com/itm/MINN-KOTA-TRAXXIS-TROLLING-MOTOR-MAIN-CONTROL-BOARD-PN-2184017-OR-2184027-/371336409933 >>>>> >>>>> Standard part that can be ordered just about everywhere. Shows up on eBay quite often. MK part no. is 2184017. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Cliff Redus >>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 19, 2016, at 9:24 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks Cliff. Is the controller a component you pulled from inside the MK trolling motor or is it a standalone product? I did a few searches and have not turned up anything standalone. I do have such a unit (really old) but it's for a way lower-powered motor than the 101s. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>>> Alec >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 9:58 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> Alan/Alec, I use Minn Kota 36v controllers for each of my 4 thrusters. They have worked great. They are potted and rugged. They have an internal relay with a dead band around 2.5v signal voltage. This means that absolutely no current flows even if you left the motor controller powered up while in the garage. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My previous motor controller for my big traction motor was from Curtis. This worked great but generated a high pitch noise that was irritating. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cliff Redus >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 19, 2016, at 6:35 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What did Cliff use? >>>>>>>> He has been through this process recently with a 101. >>>>>>>> Alan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 11:12 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No, the one I was considering was not for brushless motors. It's the Roboteq XDC2460, rated for 80A continuous duty per channel. But now I'm looking at Kelly I really like what I'm seeing there too, and Curtis seems to be similar. This will probably come down to a decision between a more advanced dual channel from Roboteq or a super simple single-channel controllers from the likes of Curtis/Kelly. In general if the simpler one can do the job, it's the one I would prefer even if it cost the same. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks guys for all the input! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Alec >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi Alec, >>>>>>>> that one says brushless? >>>>>>>> On the Kelly faq page for selecting controllers it suggests..... >>>>>>>> HOW TO CHOOSE A SUITABLE CONTROLLER FOR THE MOTOR? >>>>>>>> Usually the performance will be optimized if the power of the controller is 2.0-3.0 times of the motor's. >>>>>>>> I guess that means if you have a 2000W motor you get a controller whose continual >>>>>>>> amp rating X max voltage is at least 4000W. >>>>>>>> I have heard that it is better to aire on the safe side as some manufacturers over rate >>>>>>>> their controllers. Kelly have a reputation of being good & cheap, & their ratings accurate, >>>>>>>> however Hugh has had problems with them & I wired up mine yesterday & the ON light >>>>>>>> isn't working when powered up. I put power on it once without the pre-ignition resister >>>>>>>> so this may have stuffed it, but surely it wouldn't be so fickle! >>>>>>>> Alan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 9:45 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I need to finalize my selection of speed controllers for Shackleton over the next week or so, and at first blush am looking at this one from Roboteq: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.roboteq.com/index.php/docman/motor-controllers-documents-and-files/documentation/datasheets/hbl23xx/59-hbl23xx-datasheet/file >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There will be two of them, each driving a pair of MK101 thrusters. Roboteq offers a controller family that is a step down from this and still handles the required amperage, and which is tempting because it's much less expensive. However, the specs are too close for comfort (50A continuous duty rating vs. MK101 requirement of 46A). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anyone have any suggestions for other cost-effective controllers to consider? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Alec >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 6 23:43:18 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 May 2016 23:43:18 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers In-Reply-To: References: <256175542.3714602.1461103752771.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1186046597.3852829.1461108921075.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <33568F3C-C027-4EC4-8418-567B34A25587@gmail.com> <02B6EB4C-E428-4115-97AC-6EAF0DF2FAFE@gmail.com> Message-ID: <572D6456.3070901@psubs.org> I'm a proponent of spring return joysticks also. I considered non-return ones early on but rejected them just on a perceived need (real or not) to have them quickly return to a dead zone instead of fumbling to find that dead zone if I was in a hurry to stop propulsion. Assuming there's no throttle feedback to indicate where center is, you'll need a relatively large dead band (or zone) to not overshoot the center position. I've never been a fan of Z-axis though because I personally do not find them comfortable or user-friendly even with a large joystick for a computer. There's something about twisting motion that is fatiguing and this would be especially true on a small diameter joystick. The degrees of joystick movement is not as important as the potentiometer value controlling the signal to the controller. You can find joysticks with different potentiometer values to get the fine control you need. The more expensive joysticks use hall sensors (I believe) to get past this issue. One problem I see with a mechanical KISS approach for components is that the UI ultimately begins to suffer. Instead of one or two joysticks, extreme KISS requires four to accomplish tractoring and crabbing which means both hands on controls. I think potentiometers in this configuration are going to be less intuitive and more complex to operate, relatively speaking, than joysticks. Think Etch-a-Sketch, and I was never good at that. Mechanical KISS ultimately equates to more buttons/levers/switches than a fly-by-wire design. Yes, at a component level mechanical KISS has the benefit of being able to target a single switch for replacement but nothing is free and the UI becomes more complex because the user has to control multiple components simultaneously to perform a certain task. Back to the Z-axis, I think if I were to use one I would give up crabbing and use the Z-axis simply for vertical movement. Twist left for down, right for up. I'm not sure there is a lot of use for crabbing in something that is not a Deep-Worker type vessel, but I do plan on implementing it for my sub. Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 7 19:14:18 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 May 2016 23:14:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers In-Reply-To: <572D6456.3070901@psubs.org> References: <572D6456.3070901@psubs.org> Message-ID: <926251631.442505.1462662858276.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> What about something like this. From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 6, 2016 10:43 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers I'm a proponent of spring return joysticks also.? I considered non-return ones early on but rejected them just on a perceived need (real or not) to have them quickly return to a dead zone instead of fumbling to find that dead zone if I was in a hurry to stop propulsion.? Assuming there's no throttle feedback to indicate where center is, you'll need a relatively large dead band (or zone) to not overshoot the center position.? I've never been a fan of Z-axis though because I personally do not find them comfortable or user-friendly even with a large joystick for a computer.? There's something about twisting motion that is fatiguing and this would be especially true on a small diameter joystick. The degrees of joystick movement is not as important as the potentiometer value controlling the signal to the controller.? You can find joysticks with different potentiometer values to get the fine control you need.? The more expensive joysticks use hall sensors (I believe) to get past this issue.? One problem I see with a mechanical KISS approach for components is that the UI ultimately begins to suffer.? Instead of one or two joysticks, extreme KISS requires four to accomplish tractoring and crabbing which means both hands on controls.? I think potentiometers in this configuration are going to be less intuitive and more complex to operate, relatively speaking, than joysticks.? Think Etch-a-Sketch, and I was never good at that.? Mechanical KISS ultimately equates to more buttons/levers/switches than a fly-by-wire design.? Yes, at a component level mechanical KISS has the benefit of being able to target a single switch for replacement but nothing is free and the UI becomes more complex because the user has to control multiple components simultaneously to perform a certain task. Back to the Z-axis, I think if I were to use one I would give up crabbing and use the Z-axis simply for vertical movement.? Twist left for down, right for up.? I'm not sure there is a lot of use for crabbing in something that is not a Deep-Worker type vessel, but I do plan on implementing it for my sub. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Control.bmp Type: image/bmp Size: 379674 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 7 21:00:23 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 May 2016 01:00:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] relay's References: <1375451194.389037.1462669223901.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1375451194.389037.1462669223901.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,I have some 30\40 amp 12 volt relays, what would the rating be at 36 volts. ?Would they still be at 30\40 amp or 1\3 that.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 7 21:16:29 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 07 May 2016 19:16:29 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] relay's In-Reply-To: <1375451194.389037.1462669223901.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1375451194.389037.1462669223901.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1375451194.389037.1462669223901.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6b1f0d7b-6089-408a-8ab8-220c24cfb326@email.android.com> You can't necessarily use a relay at higher than designed voltage. The coils are specific to a particular voltage and type (AC / DC). On the load side, you can use any voltage and current within the rated maximums. Sean On May 7, 2016 7:00:23 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi All,I have some 30\40 amp 12 volt relays, what would the rating be >at 36 volts. ?Would they still be at 30\40 amp or 1\3 that.Hank > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 7 22:30:28 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 May 2016 22:30:28 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers In-Reply-To: <926251631.442505.1462662858276.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <572D6456.3070901@psubs.org> <926251631.442505.1462662858276.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Oh wow, Pete, you put way too much effort into that! Actually I have yet another evolution of this if I haven't tired you all yet. I like the joystick concept but its hard to implement satisfactorily without any signal processing. I also like the "tractor control" paradigm for the stern thrusters, but not so much for the side ones. Regarding the issue of spring return, I think that is intuitive for a joystick but the opposite is true for the "dual throttle" method. The latter is exactly like double throttling any boat - who would want to have to hold the throttles the whole time? So here's the new variant... The rear thrusters will be controlled using tractor control using two pot handles coming out the sides of the box as mentioned earlier, but for the side thrusters we have two controls on the box surface. One is a speed control (knob, thumb-wheel, whatever) that controls the speed of *both* side thrusters. They will always run at equal speed, as they did on Snoopy. Next to it is a three position toggle switch. The center position is labeled "normal" and in that setting both side thrusters pull the same way. The left position on the toggle is labelled "Crab L" and what it does is reverse the polarity of one thruster, causing the boat to crab left. Likewise the right position is for crabbing right. Ninety percent of the time the toggle will live in normal mode and the controls are reduced to a bare minimum - two throttles for steering in a horizontal plane plus the "depth knob". It passes the test of being drive-able by a 5 year old. But the crabbing function is still there if you need it, for instance, for maneuvering onto the trailer. With this, finally, I think there is something that is just as easy to use as a joystick, yet also adheres to the KISS design philosophy of the boat. Thanks, Alec On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > What about something like this. > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, May 6, 2016 10:43 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers > > > I'm a proponent of spring return joysticks also. I considered > non-return ones early on but rejected them just on a perceived need > (real or not) to have them quickly return to a dead zone instead of > fumbling to find that dead zone if I was in a hurry to stop propulsion. > Assuming there's no throttle feedback to indicate where center is, > you'll need a relatively large dead band (or zone) to not overshoot the > center position. I've never been a fan of Z-axis though because I > personally do not find them comfortable or user-friendly even with a > large joystick for a computer. There's something about twisting motion > that is fatiguing and this would be especially true on a small diameter > joystick. > > The degrees of joystick movement is not as important as the > potentiometer value controlling the signal to the controller. You can > find joysticks with different potentiometer values to get the fine > control you need. The more expensive joysticks use hall sensors (I > believe) to get past this issue. One problem I see with a mechanical > KISS approach for components is that the UI ultimately begins to > suffer. Instead of one or two joysticks, extreme KISS requires four to > accomplish tractoring and crabbing which means both hands on controls. > I think potentiometers in this configuration are going to be less > intuitive and more complex to operate, relatively speaking, than > joysticks. Think Etch-a-Sketch, and I was never good at that. > Mechanical KISS ultimately equates to more buttons/levers/switches than > a fly-by-wire design. Yes, at a component level mechanical KISS has the > benefit of being able to target a single switch for replacement but > nothing is free and the UI becomes more complex because the user has to > control multiple components simultaneously to perform a certain task. > > Back to the Z-axis, I think if I were to use one I would give up > crabbing and use the Z-axis simply for vertical movement. Twist left > for down, right for up. I'm not sure there is a lot of use for crabbing > in something that is not a Deep-Worker type vessel, but I do plan on > implementing it for my sub. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 7 23:25:34 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 May 2016 03:25:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers In-Reply-To: References: <572D6456.3070901@psubs.org> <926251631.442505.1462662858276.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1721076620.523972.1462677934476.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,some joy sticks have the " click to center" option, where it doesn't spring to center but clicks into a slot & requires more force to move it out.This was one of the configurable options Apem offered from memory.?? I would have thought a potentiometer type joystick would be as easy to implement as any other control. What sort of input does the Minnkota controllerrequire??? I am not 100% following you, but if you are having controls out the side of thebox, you could have two joysticks with X&Y axis out?either side, ?& you would then turn?the sub like turning the handlebars on a bike & push the other axis up to go up & down for (you guessed it) down. Crabbing you just lift up on one side & down on the other. Cheers Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2016 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers Oh wow, Pete, you put way too much effort into that! Actually I have yet another evolution of this if I haven't tired you all yet.?I like the joystick concept but its hard to implement satisfactorily without any signal processing. I also like the "tractor control" paradigm for the stern thrusters, but not so much for the side ones. Regarding the issue of spring return, I think that is intuitive for a joystick but the opposite is true for the "dual throttle" method. The latter is exactly like double throttling any boat - who would want to have to hold the throttles the whole time? So here's the new variant... The rear thrusters will be controlled using tractor control using two pot handles coming out the sides of the box as mentioned earlier, but for the side thrusters we have two controls on the box surface. One is a speed control (knob, thumb-wheel, whatever) that controls the speed of both side thrusters. They will always run at equal speed, as they did on Snoopy. Next to it is a three position toggle switch. The center position is labeled "normal" and in that setting both side thrusters pull the same way. The left position on the toggle is labelled "Crab L" and what it does is reverse the polarity of one thruster, causing the boat to crab left. Likewise the right position is for crabbing right. Ninety percent of the time the toggle will live in normal mode and the controls are reduced to a bare minimum - two throttles for steering in a horizontal plane plus the "depth knob". It passes the test of being drive-able by a 5 year old. But the crabbing function is still there if you need it, for instance, for maneuvering onto the trailer. With this, finally, I think there is something that is just as easy to use as a joystick, yet also adheres to the KISS design philosophy of the boat.? Thanks, Alec On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: What about something like this. From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 6, 2016 10:43 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers I'm a proponent of spring return joysticks also.? I considered non-return ones early on but rejected them just on a perceived need (real or not) to have them quickly return to a dead zone instead of fumbling to find that dead zone if I was in a hurry to stop propulsion.? Assuming there's no throttle feedback to indicate where center is, you'll need a relatively large dead band (or zone) to not overshoot the center position.? I've never been a fan of Z-axis though because I personally do not find them comfortable or user-friendly even with a large joystick for a computer.? There's something about twisting motion that is fatiguing and this would be especially true on a small diameter joystick. The degrees of joystick movement is not as important as the potentiometer value controlling the signal to the controller.? You can find joysticks with different potentiometer values to get the fine control you need.? The more expensive joysticks use hall sensors (I believe) to get past this issue.? One problem I see with a mechanical KISS approach for components is that the UI ultimately begins to suffer.? Instead of one or two joysticks, extreme KISS requires four to accomplish tractoring and crabbing which means both hands on controls.? I think potentiometers in this configuration are going to be less intuitive and more complex to operate, relatively speaking, than joysticks.? Think Etch-a-Sketch, and I was never good at that.? Mechanical KISS ultimately equates to more buttons/levers/switches than a fly-by-wire design.? Yes, at a component level mechanical KISS has the benefit of being able to target a single switch for replacement but nothing is free and the UI becomes more complex because the user has to control multiple components simultaneously to perform a certain task. Back to the Z-axis, I think if I were to use one I would give up crabbing and use the Z-axis simply for vertical movement.? Twist left for down, right for up.? I'm not sure there is a lot of use for crabbing in something that is not a Deep-Worker type vessel, but I do plan on implementing it for my sub. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 8 08:05:36 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 May 2016 12:05:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] relay's In-Reply-To: <6b1f0d7b-6089-408a-8ab8-220c24cfb326@email.android.com> References: <6b1f0d7b-6089-408a-8ab8-220c24cfb326@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1518558015.480091.1462709136708.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Sean,Thanks' , I was?thinking to use 12 v to activate the relay and run 36v through the load side. ?I just want to be sure the relay rated at 30\40 A at 12 V can handle 20A at 36 V on the load side. ? So my amp draw is less than rated but my voltage is higher than rated.Hank On Saturday, May 7, 2016 7:16 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: You can't necessarily use a relay at higher than designed voltage. The coils are specific to a particular voltage and type (AC / DC).?? On the load side, you can use any voltage and current within the rated maximums.Sean On May 7, 2016 7:00:23 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I have some 30\40 amp 12 volt relays, what would the rating be at 36 volts. ?Would they still be at 30\40 amp or 1\3 that.Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 8 08:41:09 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 May 2016 06:41:09 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] relay's In-Reply-To: <1518558015.480091.1462709136708.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <6b1f0d7b-6089-408a-8ab8-220c24cfb326@email.android.com> <1518558015.480091.1462709136708.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <572F33E5.7080306@telus.net> Be careful with that. At such low voltages, I suspect its unlikely to be a problem, but you can only guarantee isolation up to the rating. Going over current is a bigger problem, because components get hot and fail by melting, welding, or in some cases, starting electrical fires (I presume that you do have fuses / breakers installed?) Higher voltages can potentially break through insulators or jump circuit traces, in which case the relay would fail, but still not expose you to anything dangerous else it wouldn't have passed CSA / UL. Again, 36 V DC wouldn't worry me, but I would definitely test it first to make sure it will do what you want. Ratings are given for a reason. Incidentally, standard hardware store electrical tape, when applied without stretching it, provides about 600 V of isolation. Sean On 2016-05-08 06:05, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Sean, > Thanks' , I was thinking to use 12 v to activate the relay and run 36v > through the load side. I just want to be sure the relay rated at > 30\40 A at 12 V can handle 20A at 36 V on the load side. So my amp > draw is less than rated but my voltage is higher than rated. > Hank > > > On Saturday, May 7, 2016 7:16 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > You can't necessarily use a relay at higher than designed voltage. The > coils are specific to a particular voltage and type (AC / DC). On > the load side, you can use any voltage and current within the rated > maximums. > Sean > > > On May 7, 2016 7:00:23 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Hi All, > I have some 30\40 amp 12 volt relays, what would the rating be at > 36 volts. Would they still be at 30\40 amp or 1\3 that. > Hank > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 8 08:45:26 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 08 May 2016 08:45:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers In-Reply-To: <007b01d1a722$6a0898d0$3e19ca70$@indy.rr.com> References: <20160505183328.77IOJ.221813.root@cdptpa-web16> <00307226-5666-4658-A6E1-EAF23E217E01@gmail.com> <007b01d1a722$6a0898d0$3e19ca70$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: Steve: ? I will do an update on Project 765 construction progress if you want! ? John K. (203) 414-1000 ? ? ?On Thu, May 05, 2016 at 07:04 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ?> Cliff, got it. Thanks! We will be in touch regarding details. > > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles > [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2016 5:20 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers > > Jon/Steve, put me down for a presentation on my new ducted, Variable > pitch > thruster based on Minn Kota 101 trolling motor. > > Cliff > > > Cliff Redus > >> On May 5, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> All, I wanted to tag on to Jon's email. Even if you are not planning >> on > attending but would like to recommend a speaker let me know. For that > matter > if you can't attend but want to put a presentation together I think we > can > present for you or set up a remote presentation capability (think > WebEx or > GoToMeeting). >> Thanks, >> Steve >> >> ---- Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >>> >>> PC2016 - CALL FOR SPEAKERS >>> >>> We are seeking technical presentations for the 2016 PSUBS >>> Convention. If you would like to give an update on your own >>> submarine or have an area of interest that you would like to share >>> please contact myself >>> (jon at psubs.org) or Steve McQueen psub101 at indy.rr.com >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 8 09:39:52 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 May 2016 13:39:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers In-Reply-To: <1721076620.523972.1462677934476.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1721076620.523972.1462677934476.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1219908360.576840.1462714792926.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Anyone know the taper of the MK pot ? From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 7, 2016 10:25 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers Alec,some joy sticks have the " click to center" option, where it doesn't spring to center but clicks into a slot & requires more force to move it out.This was one of the configurable options Apem offered from memory.?? I would have thought a potentiometer type joystick would be as easy to implement as any other control. What sort of input does the Minnkota controllerrequire??? I am not 100% following you, but if you are having controls out the side of thebox, you could have two joysticks with X&Y axis out?either side, ?& you would then turn?the sub like turning the handlebars on a bike & push the other axis up to go up & down for (you guessed it) down. Crabbing you just lift up on one side & down on the other. Cheers Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2016 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers Oh wow, Pete, you put way too much effort into that! Actually I have yet another evolution of this if I haven't tired you all yet.?I like the joystick concept but its hard to implement satisfactorily without any signal processing. I also like the "tractor control" paradigm for the stern thrusters, but not so much for the side ones. Regarding the issue of spring return, I think that is intuitive for a joystick but the opposite is true for the "dual throttle" method. The latter is exactly like double throttling any boat - who would want to have to hold the throttles the whole time? So here's the new variant... The rear thrusters will be controlled using tractor control using two pot handles coming out the sides of the box as mentioned earlier, but for the side thrusters we have two controls on the box surface. One is a speed control (knob, thumb-wheel, whatever) that controls the speed of both side thrusters. They will always run at equal speed, as they did on Snoopy. Next to it is a three position toggle switch. The center position is labeled "normal" and in that setting both side thrusters pull the same way. The left position on the toggle is labelled "Crab L" and what it does is reverse the polarity of one thruster, causing the boat to crab left. Likewise the right position is for crabbing right. Ninety percent of the time the toggle will live in normal mode and the controls are reduced to a bare minimum - two throttles for steering in a horizontal plane plus the "depth knob". It passes the test of being drive-able by a 5 year old. But the crabbing function is still there if you need it, for instance, for maneuvering onto the trailer. With this, finally, I think there is something that is just as easy to use as a joystick, yet also adheres to the KISS design philosophy of the boat.? Thanks, Alec On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: What about something like this. From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 6, 2016 10:43 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers I'm a proponent of spring return joysticks also.? I considered non-return ones early on but rejected them just on a perceived need (real or not) to have them quickly return to a dead zone instead of fumbling to find that dead zone if I was in a hurry to stop propulsion.? Assuming there's no throttle feedback to indicate where center is, you'll need a relatively large dead band (or zone) to not overshoot the center position.? I've never been a fan of Z-axis though because I personally do not find them comfortable or user-friendly even with a large joystick for a computer.? There's something about twisting motion that is fatiguing and this would be especially true on a small diameter joystick. The degrees of joystick movement is not as important as the potentiometer value controlling the signal to the controller.? You can find joysticks with different potentiometer values to get the fine control you need.? The more expensive joysticks use hall sensors (I believe) to get past this issue.? One problem I see with a mechanical KISS approach for components is that the UI ultimately begins to suffer.? Instead of one or two joysticks, extreme KISS requires four to accomplish tractoring and crabbing which means both hands on controls.? I think potentiometers in this configuration are going to be less intuitive and more complex to operate, relatively speaking, than joysticks.? Think Etch-a-Sketch, and I was never good at that.? Mechanical KISS ultimately equates to more buttons/levers/switches than a fly-by-wire design.? Yes, at a component level mechanical KISS has the benefit of being able to target a single switch for replacement but nothing is free and the UI becomes more complex because the user has to control multiple components simultaneously to perform a certain task. Back to the Z-axis, I think if I were to use one I would give up crabbing and use the Z-axis simply for vertical movement.? Twist left for down, right for up.? I'm not sure there is a lot of use for crabbing in something that is not a Deep-Worker type vessel, but I do plan on implementing it for my sub. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 8 12:32:17 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 May 2016 12:32:17 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers In-Reply-To: References: <20160505183328.77IOJ.221813.root@cdptpa-web16> <00307226-5666-4658-A6E1-EAF23E217E01@gmail.com> <007b01d1a722$6a0898d0$3e19ca70$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: <018301d1a947$2f814c30$8e83e490$@indy.rr.com> Perfect! I'll be in touch with details. You are attending in person correct? Steve -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2016 8:45 AM To: PSUBS, Inc. Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers Steve: I will do an update on Project 765 construction progress if you want! John K. (203) 414-1000 On Thu, May 05, 2016 at 07:04 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Cliff, got it. Thanks! We will be in touch regarding details. > > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles > [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2016 5:20 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers > > Jon/Steve, put me down for a presentation on my new ducted, Variable > pitch > thruster based on Minn Kota 101 trolling motor. > > Cliff > > > Cliff Redus > >> On May 5, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> All, I wanted to tag on to Jon's email. Even if you are not planning >> on > attending but would like to recommend a speaker let me know. For that > matter > if you can't attend but want to put a presentation together I think we > can > present for you or set up a remote presentation capability (think > WebEx or > GoToMeeting). >> Thanks, >> Steve >> >> ---- Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >>> >>> PC2016 - CALL FOR SPEAKERS >>> >>> We are seeking technical presentations for the 2016 PSUBS >>> Convention. If you would like to give an update on your own >>> submarine or have an area of interest that you would like to share >>> please contact myself >>> (jon at psubs.org) or Steve McQueen psub101 at indy.rr.com >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 8 13:18:05 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 08 May 2016 13:18:05 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers In-Reply-To: <018301d1a947$2f814c30$8e83e490$@indy.rr.com> References: <20160505183328.77IOJ.221813.root@cdptpa-web16> <00307226-5666-4658-A6E1-EAF23E217E01@gmail.com> <007b01d1a722$6a0898d0$3e19ca70$@indy.rr.com> <018301d1a947$2f814c30$8e83e490$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: Steve: Yes I will be there on the 27th - 31st at the Seneca Clipper Inn. John K. (203) 414-1000 Sent from my iPhone > On May 8, 2016, at 12:32 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Perfect! I'll be in touch with details. You are attending in person correct? > > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2016 8:45 AM > To: PSUBS, Inc. > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers > > Steve: > > I will do an update on Project 765 construction progress if you want! > > John K. > (203) 414-1000 > > >> On Thu, May 05, 2016 at 07:04 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Cliff, got it. Thanks! We will be in touch regarding details. >> >> Steve >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Personal_Submersibles >> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2016 5:20 PM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers >> >> Jon/Steve, put me down for a presentation on my new ducted, Variable >> pitch >> thruster based on Minn Kota 101 trolling motor. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> Cliff Redus >> >>> On May 5, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >>> >>> All, I wanted to tag on to Jon's email. Even if you are not planning >>> on >> attending but would like to recommend a speaker let me know. For that >> matter >> if you can't attend but want to put a presentation together I think we >> can >> present for you or set up a remote presentation capability (think >> WebEx or >> GoToMeeting). >>> Thanks, >>> Steve >>> >>> ---- Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >>>> >>>> PC2016 - CALL FOR SPEAKERS >>>> >>>> We are seeking technical presentations for the 2016 PSUBS >>>> Convention. If you would like to give an update on your own >>>> submarine or have an area of interest that you would like to share >>>> please contact myself >>>> (jon at psubs.org) or Steve McQueen psub101 at indy.rr.com >>>> >>>> Jon >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 8 16:06:00 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 May 2016 15:06:00 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers In-Reply-To: <1219908360.576840.1462714792926.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1721076620.523972.1462677934476.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1219908360.576840.1462714792926.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Pete, the potentiometer taper for the MK-101 controller card is a 1K ohm, linear with a 0-240 deg range. cliff On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Anyone know the taper of the MK pot ? > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Saturday, May 7, 2016 10:25 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers > > Alec, > some joy sticks have the " click to center" option, where it doesn't > spring to > center but clicks into a slot & requires more force to move it out. > This was one of the configurable options Apem offered from memory. > I would have thought a potentiometer type joystick would be as easy to > implement as any other control. What sort of input does the Minnkota > controller > require? > I am not 100% following you, but if you are having controls out the > side of the > box, you could have two joysticks with X&Y axis out either side, & you > would then > turn the sub like turning the handlebars on a bike & push the other axis > up to go up > & down for (you guessed it) down. Crabbing you just lift up on one side & > down on the other. > Cheers Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Sunday, May 8, 2016 2:30 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers > > Oh wow, Pete, you put way too much effort into that! Actually I have yet > another evolution of this if I haven't tired you all yet. I like the > joystick concept but its hard to implement satisfactorily without any > signal processing. I also like the "tractor control" paradigm for the stern > thrusters, but not so much for the side ones. Regarding the issue of spring > return, I think that is intuitive for a joystick but the opposite is true > for the "dual throttle" method. The latter is exactly like double > throttling any boat - who would want to have to hold the throttles the > whole time? So here's the new variant... > > The rear thrusters will be controlled using tractor control using two pot > handles coming out the sides of the box as mentioned earlier, but for the > side thrusters we have two controls on the box surface. One is a speed > control (knob, thumb-wheel, whatever) that controls the speed of *both* > side thrusters. They will always run at equal speed, as they did on Snoopy. > Next to it is a three position toggle switch. The center position is > labeled "normal" and in that setting both side thrusters pull the same way. > The left position on the toggle is labelled "Crab L" and what it does is > reverse the polarity of one thruster, causing the boat to crab left. > Likewise the right position is for crabbing right. Ninety percent of the > time the toggle will live in normal mode and the controls are reduced to a > bare minimum - two throttles for steering in a horizontal plane plus the > "depth knob". It passes the test of being drive-able by a 5 year old. But > the crabbing function is still there if you need it, for instance, for > maneuvering onto the trailer. With this, finally, I think there is > something that is just as easy to use as a joystick, yet also adheres to > the KISS design philosophy of the boat. > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > What about something like this. > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, May 6, 2016 10:43 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers > > > I'm a proponent of spring return joysticks also. I considered > non-return ones early on but rejected them just on a perceived need > (real or not) to have them quickly return to a dead zone instead of > fumbling to find that dead zone if I was in a hurry to stop propulsion. > Assuming there's no throttle feedback to indicate where center is, > you'll need a relatively large dead band (or zone) to not overshoot the > center position. I've never been a fan of Z-axis though because I > personally do not find them comfortable or user-friendly even with a > large joystick for a computer. There's something about twisting motion > that is fatiguing and this would be especially true on a small diameter > joystick. > > The degrees of joystick movement is not as important as the > potentiometer value controlling the signal to the controller. You can > find joysticks with different potentiometer values to get the fine > control you need. The more expensive joysticks use hall sensors (I > believe) to get past this issue. One problem I see with a mechanical > KISS approach for components is that the UI ultimately begins to > suffer. Instead of one or two joysticks, extreme KISS requires four to > accomplish tractoring and crabbing which means both hands on controls. > I think potentiometers in this configuration are going to be less > intuitive and more complex to operate, relatively speaking, than > joysticks. Think Etch-a-Sketch, and I was never good at that. > Mechanical KISS ultimately equates to more buttons/levers/switches than > a fly-by-wire design. Yes, at a component level mechanical KISS has the > benefit of being able to target a single switch for replacement but > nothing is free and the UI becomes more complex because the user has to > control multiple components simultaneously to perform a certain task. > > Back to the Z-axis, I think if I were to use one I would give up > crabbing and use the Z-axis simply for vertical movement. Twist left > for down, right for up. I'm not sure there is a lot of use for crabbing > in something that is not a Deep-Worker type vessel, but I do plan on > implementing it for my sub. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 8 16:46:05 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 May 2016 20:46:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1328891473.727317.1462740365267.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks, I figured they were linear taper but I thought were 5K. From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2016 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers Pete, the potentiometer taper for the MK-101 controller card?is a 1K ohm,?linear with a 0-240 deg range.? cliff On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Anyone know the taper of the MK pot ? From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 7, 2016 10:25 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers Alec,some joy sticks have the " click to center" option, where it doesn't spring to center but clicks into a slot & requires more force to move it out.This was one of the configurable options Apem offered from memory.?? I would have thought a potentiometer type joystick would be as easy to implement as any other control. What sort of input does the Minnkota controllerrequire??? I am not 100% following you, but if you are having controls out the side of thebox, you could have two joysticks with X&Y axis out?either side, ?& you would then turn?the sub like turning the handlebars on a bike & push the other axis up to go up & down for (you guessed it) down. Crabbing you just lift up on one side & down on the other. Cheers Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2016 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers Oh wow, Pete, you put way too much effort into that! Actually I have yet another evolution of this if I haven't tired you all yet.?I like the joystick concept but its hard to implement satisfactorily without any signal processing. I also like the "tractor control" paradigm for the stern thrusters, but not so much for the side ones. Regarding the issue of spring return, I think that is intuitive for a joystick but the opposite is true for the "dual throttle" method. The latter is exactly like double throttling any boat - who would want to have to hold the throttles the whole time? So here's the new variant... The rear thrusters will be controlled using tractor control using two pot handles coming out the sides of the box as mentioned earlier, but for the side thrusters we have two controls on the box surface. One is a speed control (knob, thumb-wheel, whatever) that controls the speed of both side thrusters. They will always run at equal speed, as they did on Snoopy. Next to it is a three position toggle switch. The center position is labeled "normal" and in that setting both side thrusters pull the same way. The left position on the toggle is labelled "Crab L" and what it does is reverse the polarity of one thruster, causing the boat to crab left. Likewise the right position is for crabbing right. Ninety percent of the time the toggle will live in normal mode and the controls are reduced to a bare minimum - two throttles for steering in a horizontal plane plus the "depth knob". It passes the test of being drive-able by a 5 year old. But the crabbing function is still there if you need it, for instance, for maneuvering onto the trailer. With this, finally, I think there is something that is just as easy to use as a joystick, yet also adheres to the KISS design philosophy of the boat.? Thanks, Alec On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: What about something like this. From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 6, 2016 10:43 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers I'm a proponent of spring return joysticks also.? I considered non-return ones early on but rejected them just on a perceived need (real or not) to have them quickly return to a dead zone instead of fumbling to find that dead zone if I was in a hurry to stop propulsion.? Assuming there's no throttle feedback to indicate where center is, you'll need a relatively large dead band (or zone) to not overshoot the center position.? I've never been a fan of Z-axis though because I personally do not find them comfortable or user-friendly even with a large joystick for a computer.? There's something about twisting motion that is fatiguing and this would be especially true on a small diameter joystick. The degrees of joystick movement is not as important as the potentiometer value controlling the signal to the controller.? You can find joysticks with different potentiometer values to get the fine control you need.? The more expensive joysticks use hall sensors (I believe) to get past this issue.? One problem I see with a mechanical KISS approach for components is that the UI ultimately begins to suffer.? Instead of one or two joysticks, extreme KISS requires four to accomplish tractoring and crabbing which means both hands on controls.? I think potentiometers in this configuration are going to be less intuitive and more complex to operate, relatively speaking, than joysticks.? Think Etch-a-Sketch, and I was never good at that.? Mechanical KISS ultimately equates to more buttons/levers/switches than a fly-by-wire design.? Yes, at a component level mechanical KISS has the benefit of being able to target a single switch for replacement but nothing is free and the UI becomes more complex because the user has to control multiple components simultaneously to perform a certain task. Back to the Z-axis, I think if I were to use one I would give up crabbing and use the Z-axis simply for vertical movement.? Twist left for down, right for up.? I'm not sure there is a lot of use for crabbing in something that is not a Deep-Worker type vessel, but I do plan on implementing it for my sub. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 10 18:39:12 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 15:39:12 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stainless hand pump Message-ID: <20160510153912.8F256EA5@m0087792.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 10 19:17:22 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 23:17:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stainless hand pump In-Reply-To: <20160510153912.8F256EA5@m0087792.ppops.net> References: <20160510153912.8F256EA5@m0087792.ppops.net> Message-ID: <2120498405.54684.1462922242614.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Brian,No I did not find one. ?I am planning to make one, but I am working on Gamma now. ? I am taking a break from Elementary 3000 after getting my ass kicked at Slocan ;-) ?When will you test again?Hank On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 4:39 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey Hank,???????????????????????? Did you ever find that stainless hand pump?????? I'm thinking about making a water pladder that will?lie at the bottom of my sphere for a variable ballast tank.?Brian? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 10 22:24:25 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 19:24:25 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stainless hand pump Message-ID: <20160510192425.E77D40EC@m0087798.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 11 09:55:40 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 06:55:40 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stainless hand pump Message-ID: <20160511065540.9B3F0597@m0087793.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 11 10:36:30 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 14:36:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stainless hand pump In-Reply-To: <20160511065540.9B3F0597@m0087793.ppops.net> References: <20160511065540.9B3F0597@m0087793.ppops.net> Message-ID: <713978859.373568.1462977391056.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,I once made a HP pump to feed my steam boiler. ?I used a small hydraulic cylinder with the piston removed. ?The rod simply displaced the water, and I used two check valves. ?The rod was a bit big for what I need now but the principal is the same.Hank On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 7:55 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,??? Are you planning on copying an existing design??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stainless hand pump Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 23:17:22 +0000 (UTC) Hi Brian,No I did not find one. ?I am planning to make one, but I am working on Gamma now. ? I am taking a break from Elementary 3000 after getting my ass kicked at Slocan ;-) ?When will you test again?Hank On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 4:39 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey Hank,???????????????????????? Did you ever find that stainless hand pump?????? I'm thinking about making a water pladder that will?lie at the bottom of my sphere for a variable ballast tank.?Brian? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 11 18:15:23 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 22:15:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <328933100.628064.1463004923731.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Here is a video of Gamma outside for the first time with the escape?pod done and installed.Hank On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 4:13 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: MVI 0340 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWiDZCdukF8 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2016-05-11 at 4.13 PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16562 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 11 19:46:41 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 19:46:41 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma video In-Reply-To: <328933100.628064.1463004923731.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <328933100.628064.1463004923731.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Spectacularly neat job! I don't suppose we can entice you to drive across the continent to join us at Watkins Glen? Best, Alec > On May 11, 2016, at 6:15 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Here is a video of Gamma outside for the first time with the escape pod done and installed. > Hank > > > On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 4:13 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > MVI 0340 > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWiDZCdukF8 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 11 20:35:09 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 00:35:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma video In-Reply-To: References: <328933100.628064.1463004923731.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <443975323.678025.1463013309497.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thank you Alec,I did think hard about driving out but Man O Man that is a big trip?especially alone.Hank On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 5:46 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Spectacularly neat job! I don't suppose we can entice you to drive across the continent to join us at Watkins Glen? Best, Alec On May 11, 2016, at 6:15 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Here is a video of Gamma outside for the first time with the escape?pod done and installed.Hank On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 4:13 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: MVI 0340 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWiDZCdukF8 _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 11 20:56:36 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 17:56:36 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma video Message-ID: <20160511175636.E77CBCAB@m0087798.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 11 21:19:16 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 01:19:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma video In-Reply-To: <20160511175636.E77CBCAB@m0087798.ppops.net> References: <20160511175636.E77CBCAB@m0087798.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1345661193.689758.1463015956315.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,The?panels that join the two parts have another purpose also. ?The hatch land on the pod has a 24 inch truck inner tube around it to keep the pod upright at the surface. ?The?panels cover that nicely. ?Hank On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 6:56 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,??? I finally get what you've been doing.?? That back escape pod is really seamless the way it fits in there.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma video Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 22:15:23 +0000 (UTC) Here is a video of Gamma outside for the first time with the escape?pod done and installed.Hank On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 4:13 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: MVI 0340 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWiDZCdukF8 _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 11 21:23:37 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 18:23:37 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma video In-Reply-To: <328933100.628064.1463004923731.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <328933100.628064.1463004923731.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006201d1abec$e94f87b0$bbee9710$@telus.net> Very cool, Hank. It looks like differential thrust for steering. Do you plan on adding a rudder or rear thruster? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 3:15 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma video Here is a video of Gamma outside for the first time with the escape pod done and installed. Hank On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 4:13 PM, xxx xxxxx > wrote: MVI 0340 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWiDZCdukF8 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16562 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 11 21:32:26 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 01:32:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma video In-Reply-To: <006201d1abec$e94f87b0$bbee9710$@telus.net> References: <328933100.628064.1463004923731.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <006201d1abec$e94f87b0$bbee9710$@telus.net> Message-ID: <894573054.710885.1463016746613.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Tim,I am hoping the sub will steer with just the two thrusters, if that doesn't work well, then I can add two more thrusters that are vectored. ?I want to stay away from a rudder, just to keep it simple. ?Also if I add vectored thrusters, I will have get home motors if a main thruster dies.Hank On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 7:24 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv0493745715 #yiv0493745715 -- _filtered #yiv0493745715 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0493745715 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0493745715 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv0493745715 #yiv0493745715 p.yiv0493745715MsoNormal, #yiv0493745715 li.yiv0493745715MsoNormal, #yiv0493745715 div.yiv0493745715MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv0493745715 a:link, #yiv0493745715 span.yiv0493745715MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0493745715 a:visited, #yiv0493745715 span.yiv0493745715MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0493745715 span.yiv0493745715EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv0493745715 .yiv0493745715MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv0493745715 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv0493745715 div.yiv0493745715WordSection1 {}#yiv0493745715 Very cool, Hank.It looks like differential thrust for steering. Do you plan on adding a rudder or rear thruster?Tim ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 3:15 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma video ?Here is a video of Gamma outside for the first time with the escape?pod done and installed.Hank ?On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 4:13 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: ?MVI 0340 ?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWiDZCdukF8 ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 16562 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 11 23:28:53 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 20:28:53 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma video In-Reply-To: <894573054.710885.1463016746613.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <328933100.628064.1463004923731.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <006201d1abec$e94f87b0$bbee9710$@telus.net> <894573054.710885.1463016746613.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007c01d1abfe$69921800$3cb64800$@telus.net> Hi Hank, As long as your side thrusters can be synched to matching thrust forces you will do well. Good idea with the vectored thrusters as get home motors since incorporating a rudder to clear your escape pod sounds complicated. I liked your original rudder though, it sure beats hanging an oar off the side. I want to eventually put a rudder on my sub since it has only two non-vectored thrusters. And that irritates me. As well, I like the idea of a bit of rudder trim since the thrusters only have one speed and they may not be perfectly matched. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 6:32 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma video Hi Tim, I am hoping the sub will steer with just the two thrusters, if that doesn't work well, then I can add two more thrusters that are vectored. I want to stay away from a rudder, just to keep it simple. Also if I add vectored thrusters, I will have get home motors if a main thruster dies. Hank On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 7:24 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Very cool, Hank. It looks like differential thrust for steering. Do you plan on adding a rudder or rear thruster? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 3:15 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma video Here is a video of Gamma outside for the first time with the escape pod done and installed. Hank On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 4:13 PM, xxx xxxxx > wrote: MVI 0340 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWiDZCdukF8 _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16562 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 12 05:19:36 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 10:19:36 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma video In-Reply-To: References: <328933100.628064.1463004923731.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank Fantastic job. Looks really neat. Gamma is getting bigger all the time.....! I don't suppose you could take a video of inside for us if you have time? I would like to see how you get in and out of the pod from the inside, and the connection method. Thinking of something similar for my new boat. James On 12 May 2016 at 00:46, Private via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Spectacularly neat job! I don't suppose we can entice you to drive across > the continent to join us at Watkins Glen? > > Best, > > Alec > > On May 11, 2016, at 6:15 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Here is a video of Gamma outside for the first time with the escape pod > done and installed. > Hank > > > On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 4:13 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > MVI 0340 > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWiDZCdukF8 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 12 08:21:06 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 12:21:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma video In-Reply-To: References: <328933100.628064.1463004923731.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <54688125.877359.1463055666521.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi James,Will do, it is a bit messy inside with a wee bit of wiring to do and the carpet is not in. ?Hank On Thursday, May 12, 2016 3:19 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank?Fantastic job.? Looks really neat.? Gamma is getting bigger all the time.....!? I don't suppose you could take a video of inside for us if you have time?? I would like to see how you get in and out of the pod from the inside, and the connection method.? Thinking of something similar for my new boat. James On 12 May 2016 at 00:46, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Spectacularly neat job! I don't suppose we can entice you to drive across the continent to join us at Watkins Glen? Best, Alec On May 11, 2016, at 6:15 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Here is a video of Gamma outside for the first time with the escape?pod done and installed.Hank On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 4:13 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: MVI 0340 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWiDZCdukF8 _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 12 08:24:56 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 12:24:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod References: <667930091.852566.1463055896443.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <667930091.852566.1463055896443.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi James,What do you have in mind for a similar escape pod or similar?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 12 09:02:51 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 14:02:51 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod In-Reply-To: <667930091.852566.1463055896443.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <667930091.852566.1463055896443.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <667930091.852566.1463055896443.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: ?Hi Hank, Not 100% sure yet. I'm just thinking aloud really. I really don't know what configuration to go for with the new sub. Priority 1 is to have a diesel engine. This is the current configuration. Thing bottom left is lockout hatch. Will send some more of my thinkings... On 12 May 2016 at 13:24, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi James, > What do you have in mind for a similar escape pod or similar? > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Current.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 22809 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 12 09:08:58 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 14:08:58 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod In-Reply-To: References: <667930091.852566.1463055896443.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <667930091.852566.1463055896443.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Idea 1. Forgetting about ballast tanks, battery pods etc. Just position of engine and viewports. Engine would be on sliding rail to allow access to lockout hatch for emergency escape. Brown thing is engine, red bit gearbox. Probably the simplest configuration. (I want to keep this boat super simple for speedy build.) Im at work. Only got MS paint to draw with.... ? On 12 May 2016 at 14:02, James Frankland wrote: > > ?Hi Hank, > > Not 100% sure yet. I'm just thinking aloud really. I really don't know > what configuration to go for with the new sub. Priority 1 is to have a > diesel engine. > > This is the current configuration. Thing bottom left is lockout hatch. > Will send some more of my thinkings... > > On 12 May 2016 at 13:24, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi James, >> What do you have in mind for a similar escape pod or similar? >> Hank >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: option1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 27132 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Current.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 22809 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 12 09:19:48 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 14:19:48 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod In-Reply-To: References: <667930091.852566.1463055896443.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <667930091.852566.1463055896443.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Option 2. Again, forget about ballast tanks etc. Boat goes the other way around. Viewports added at the new front end. Lockout hatch becomes dome\escape port. Better view. Engine does not have to slide on rails. More work. Basically I am just thinking at the moment. Workshop still being built. Plenty of time to think but this is as far as ive got. Obviously viewports at the new aft end are blanked off where necessary. ? On 12 May 2016 at 14:08, James Frankland wrote: > Idea 1. Forgetting about ballast tanks, battery pods etc. Just position > of engine and viewports. Engine would be on sliding rail to allow access > to lockout hatch for emergency escape. Brown thing is engine, red bit > gearbox. > > Probably the simplest configuration. (I want to keep this boat super > simple for speedy build.) > > Im at work. Only got MS paint to draw with.... > > > ? > > On 12 May 2016 at 14:02, James Frankland > wrote: > >> >> ?Hi Hank, >> >> Not 100% sure yet. I'm just thinking aloud really. I really don't know >> what configuration to go for with the new sub. Priority 1 is to have a >> diesel engine. >> >> This is the current configuration. Thing bottom left is lockout hatch. >> Will send some more of my thinkings... >> >> On 12 May 2016 at 13:24, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi James, >>> What do you have in mind for a similar escape pod or similar? >>> Hank >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Option2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 31827 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Current.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 22809 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: option1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 27132 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 12 10:25:26 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 14:25:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod In-Reply-To: References: <667930091.852566.1463055896443.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <667930091.852566.1463055896443.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <334736665.943768.1463063127061.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> James,I like option 2 except I would not blank out the ports unless you need another penetrator plate. ?Rear ports would be nice to see whats going on in the back. ?Hank On Thursday, May 12, 2016 7:20 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Option 2.? Again, forget about ballast tanks etc.? Boat goes the other way around.? Viewports added at the new front end.? Lockout hatch becomes dome\escape port.? Better view.? Engine does not have to slide on rails.? More work.?Basically I am just thinking at the moment. Workshop still being built.? Plenty of time to think but this is as far as ive got.? Obviously viewports at the new aft end are blanked off where necessary.? ? ? On 12 May 2016 at 14:08, James Frankland wrote: Idea 1.? Forgetting about ballast tanks, battery pods etc.? Just position of engine and viewports.? Engine would be on sliding rail to allow access to lockout hatch for emergency escape.? Brown thing is engine, red bit gearbox.?Probably the simplest configuration.? (I want to keep this boat super simple for speedy build.)?Im at work.? Only got MS paint to draw with....? ? On 12 May 2016 at 14:02, James Frankland wrote: ?Hi Hank, Not 100% sure yet.? I'm just thinking aloud really.?? I really don't know what configuration to go for with the new sub.? Priority 1 is to have a diesel engine.?This is the current configuration.? Thing bottom left is lockout hatch.? Will send some more of my thinkings... On 12 May 2016 at 13:24, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi James,What do you have in mind for a similar escape pod or similar?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: option1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 27132 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Current.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 22809 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Option2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 31827 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 12 12:50:51 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 11:50:51 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers In-Reply-To: References: <20160505183328.77IOJ.221813.root@cdptpa-web16> <00307226-5666-4658-A6E1-EAF23E217E01@gmail.com> <007b01d1a722$6a0898d0$3e19ca70$@indy.rr.com> <018301d1a947$2f814c30$8e83e490$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: Steve/Jon: Rick Maxwell and I would like to start nailing down travel arrangements for the 2016 Psubs convention. I don't see anything on the web site on the convention. I realize that it's early days and you guys are working details but can you give us an update? 1)Firm Dates 2)Dive venue 3)Meeting venue 4)Recommended hotels in area 5)Tentative schedule 6) List of boats that are coming 7) Nearest airport Thanks for your work to date on the convention. On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 12:18 PM, John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Steve: > > Yes I will be there on the 27th - 31st at the Seneca Clipper Inn. > > John K. > (203) 414-1000 > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On May 8, 2016, at 12:32 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Perfect! I'll be in touch with details. You are attending in person > correct? > > > > Steve > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of John Kammerer via > Personal_Submersibles > > Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2016 8:45 AM > > To: PSUBS, Inc. > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers > > > > Steve: > > > > I will do an update on Project 765 construction progress if you want! > > > > John K. > > (203) 414-1000 > > > > > >> On Thu, May 05, 2016 at 07:04 PM, Steve McQueen via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> > >> Cliff, got it. Thanks! We will be in touch regarding details. > >> > >> Steve > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Personal_Submersibles > >> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > >> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles > >> Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2016 5:20 PM > >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers > >> > >> Jon/Steve, put me down for a presentation on my new ducted, Variable > >> pitch > >> thruster based on Minn Kota 101 trolling motor. > >> > >> Cliff > >> > >> > >> Cliff Redus > >> > >>> On May 5, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > >>> > >>> All, I wanted to tag on to Jon's email. Even if you are not planning > >>> on > >> attending but would like to recommend a speaker let me know. For that > >> matter > >> if you can't attend but want to put a presentation together I think we > >> can > >> present for you or set up a remote presentation capability (think > >> WebEx or > >> GoToMeeting). > >>> Thanks, > >>> Steve > >>> > >>> ---- Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> PC2016 - CALL FOR SPEAKERS > >>>> > >>>> We are seeking technical presentations for the 2016 PSUBS > >>>> Convention. If you would like to give an update on your own > >>>> submarine or have an area of interest that you would like to share > >>>> please contact myself > >>>> (jon at psubs.org) or Steve McQueen psub101 at indy.rr.com > >>>> > >>>> Jon > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 12 14:53:18 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 14:53:18 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers In-Reply-To: References: <20160505183328.77IOJ.221813.root@cdptpa-web16> <00307226-5666-4658-A6E1-EAF23E217E01@gmail.com> <007b01d1a722$6a0898d0$3e19ca70$@indy.rr.com> <018301d1a947$2f814c30$8e83e490$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: <5734D11E.8080706@psubs.org> Hi Cliff, Yes, we are still trying to tie up some loose ends. However, dates are finalized as July 27-30 at Watkins Glen NY. Lodging is up to each individual. We cannot find any single place that has enough rooms to do a bulk reservation however there are numerous hotels/motels that have one and two rooms available. I may end up in Horseheads about 30 minutes south of the lake. Much more availability down there. We will identify a central meeting location at the lake and of course stay in touch via cell. No specifics on dives yet or meeting venue. Tentative schedule is diving on 27 and 28, technical presentations on 29, and public display/diving on Sat 30th. Trying to keep this low cost and expect no registration fee for PSUBS members. Looks like Ithaca NY would be the closest major airport, otherwise Syracuse. There are some smaller regional airports around but it doesn't look like major carriers go in them. Jon On 5/12/2016 12:50 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Steve/Jon: > > Rick Maxwell and I would like to start nailing down travel > arrangements for the 2016 Psubs convention. I don't see anything on > the web site on the convention. I realize that it's early days and > you guys are working details but can you give us an update? > > 1)Firm Dates > 2)Dive venue > 3)Meeting venue > 4)Recommended hotels in area > 5)Tentative schedule > 6) List of boats that are coming > 7) Nearest airport > > Thanks for your work to date on the convention. > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 12 15:05:07 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 19:05:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers References: <1408847679.1139864.1463079907653.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1408847679.1139864.1463079907653.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Elmira, NY is also a nearby airport (ELM) which is as large if not larger than Ithaca. Al Secor -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 5/12/16, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Thursday, May 12, 2016, 2:53 PM Hi Cliff, Yes, we are still trying to tie up some loose ends.? However, dates are finalized as July 27-30 at Watkins Glen NY.? Lodging is up to each individual.? We cannot find any single place that has enough rooms to do a bulk reservation however there are numerous hotels/motels that have one and two rooms available.? I may end up in Horseheads about 30 minutes south of the lake.? Much more availability down there.? We will identify a central meeting location at the lake and of course stay in touch via cell. No specifics on dives yet or meeting venue.? Tentative schedule is diving on 27 and 28, technical presentations on 29, and public display/diving on Sat 30th.? Trying to keep this low cost and expect no registration fee for PSUBS members. Looks like Ithaca NY would be the closest major airport, otherwise Syracuse.? There are some smaller regional airports around but it doesn't look like major carriers go in them. Jon On 5/12/2016 12:50 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Steve/Jon: > > Rick Maxwell and I would like to start nailing down travel > arrangements for the 2016 Psubs convention.? I don't see anything on > the web site on the convention.? I realize that it's early days and > you guys are working details but can you give us an update? > > 1)Firm Dates > 2)Dive venue > 3)Meeting venue > 4)Recommended hotels in area > 5)Tentative schedule > 6) List of boats that are coming > 7) Nearest airport > > Thanks for your work to date on the convention. > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 12 15:42:40 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 15:42:40 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers In-Reply-To: References: <20160505183328.77IOJ.221813.root@cdptpa-web16> <00307226-5666-4658-A6E1-EAF23E217E01@gmail.com> <007b01d1a722$6a0898d0$3e19ca70$@indy.rr.com> <018301d1a947$2f814c30$8e83e490$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: Hi Cliff, I've been contacting sub owners and so far the ones who have responded with various degrees of "yes" include: - Jon Wallace - Scott and Kathy Waters - Brian Hughes - Gary Sluis - Dan H. - Greg Cottrell - Mark Ragan - Alec Smyth I expect some will drop out and one or two could be static displays rather than diving, but we should definitely have a little fleet even if half of them don't show. I've presumed you're too far away, but... :) Alec On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Steve/Jon: > > Rick Maxwell and I would like to start nailing down travel arrangements > for the 2016 Psubs convention. I don't see anything on the web site on the > convention. I realize that it's early days and you guys are working > details but can you give us an update? > > 1)Firm Dates > 2)Dive venue > 3)Meeting venue > 4)Recommended hotels in area > 5)Tentative schedule > 6) List of boats that are coming > 7) Nearest airport > > Thanks for your work to date on the convention. > > > On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 12:18 PM, John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Steve: >> >> Yes I will be there on the 27th - 31st at the Seneca Clipper Inn. >> >> John K. >> (203) 414-1000 >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On May 8, 2016, at 12:32 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> > >> > Perfect! I'll be in touch with details. You are attending in person >> correct? >> > >> > Steve >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of John Kammerer via >> Personal_Submersibles >> > Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2016 8:45 AM >> > To: PSUBS, Inc. >> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers >> > >> > Steve: >> > >> > I will do an update on Project 765 construction progress if you want! >> > >> > John K. >> > (203) 414-1000 >> > >> > >> >> On Thu, May 05, 2016 at 07:04 PM, Steve McQueen via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> >> Cliff, got it. Thanks! We will be in touch regarding details. >> >> >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Personal_Submersibles >> >> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> >> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >> >> Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2016 5:20 PM >> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> > >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers >> >> >> >> Jon/Steve, put me down for a presentation on my new ducted, Variable >> >> pitch >> >> thruster based on Minn Kota 101 trolling motor. >> >> >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> >> >> Cliff Redus >> >> >> >>> On May 5, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles >> > wrote: >> >>> >> >>> All, I wanted to tag on to Jon's email. Even if you are not planning >> >>> on >> >> attending but would like to recommend a speaker let me know. For that >> >> matter >> >> if you can't attend but want to put a presentation together I think we >> >> can >> >> present for you or set up a remote presentation capability (think >> >> WebEx or >> >> GoToMeeting). >> >>> Thanks, >> >>> Steve >> >>> >> >>> ---- Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >> > wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> PC2016 - CALL FOR SPEAKERS >> >>>> >> >>>> We are seeking technical presentations for the 2016 PSUBS >> >>>> Convention. If you would like to give an update on your own >> >>>> submarine or have an area of interest that you would like to share >> >>>> please contact myself >> >>>> (jon at psubs.org) or Steve McQueen psub101 at indy.rr.com >> >>>> >> >>>> Jon >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 12 16:21:16 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 15:21:16 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers In-Reply-To: <5734D11E.8080706@psubs.org> References: <20160505183328.77IOJ.221813.root@cdptpa-web16> <00307226-5666-4658-A6E1-EAF23E217E01@gmail.com> <007b01d1a722$6a0898d0$3e19ca70$@indy.rr.com> <018301d1a947$2f814c30$8e83e490$@indy.rr.com> <5734D11E.8080706@psubs.org> Message-ID: Thanks Jon/Al/Alec. Just what I needed. Regards On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Cliff, > > Yes, we are still trying to tie up some loose ends. However, dates are > finalized as July 27-30 at Watkins Glen NY. Lodging is up to each > individual. We cannot find any single place that has enough rooms to do a > bulk reservation however there are numerous hotels/motels that have one and > two rooms available. I may end up in Horseheads about 30 minutes south of > the lake. Much more availability down there. We will identify a central > meeting location at the lake and of course stay in touch via cell. > > No specifics on dives yet or meeting venue. Tentative schedule is diving > on 27 and 28, technical presentations on 29, and public display/diving on > Sat 30th. Trying to keep this low cost and expect no registration fee for > PSUBS members. > > Looks like Ithaca NY would be the closest major airport, otherwise > Syracuse. There are some smaller regional airports around but it doesn't > look like major carriers go in them. > > Jon > > > On 5/12/2016 12:50 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Steve/Jon: >> >> Rick Maxwell and I would like to start nailing down travel arrangements >> for the 2016 Psubs convention. I don't see anything on the web site on the >> convention. I realize that it's early days and you guys are working >> details but can you give us an update? >> >> 1)Firm Dates >> 2)Dive venue >> 3)Meeting venue >> 4)Recommended hotels in area >> 5)Tentative schedule >> 6) List of boats that are coming >> 7) Nearest airport >> >> Thanks for your work to date on the convention. >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 12 16:29:51 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 15:29:51 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers In-Reply-To: References: <20160505183328.77IOJ.221813.root@cdptpa-web16> <00307226-5666-4658-A6E1-EAF23E217E01@gmail.com> <007b01d1a722$6a0898d0$3e19ca70$@indy.rr.com> <018301d1a947$2f814c30$8e83e490$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: Looks like this could be the largest number of boats we have ever had attend a psub convention. My diving buddy Rick Maxwell is trying to talk me into towing the R300 to the convention. I am tempted. It would only be a couple of hundred miles longer than when we towed it to Islamorada Fl which turned out to be an easy tow. I worry that the traffic in the north east would make it more difficult. Cliff On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Cliff, > > I've been contacting sub owners and so far the ones who have responded > with various degrees of "yes" include: > > - Jon Wallace > - Scott and Kathy Waters > - Brian Hughes > - Gary Sluis > - Dan H. > - Greg Cottrell > - Mark Ragan > - Alec Smyth > > I expect some will drop out and one or two could be static displays rather > than diving, but we should definitely have a little fleet even if half of > them don't show. I've presumed you're too far away, but... > > > :) > > Alec > > On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Steve/Jon: >> >> Rick Maxwell and I would like to start nailing down travel arrangements >> for the 2016 Psubs convention. I don't see anything on the web site on the >> convention. I realize that it's early days and you guys are working >> details but can you give us an update? >> >> 1)Firm Dates >> 2)Dive venue >> 3)Meeting venue >> 4)Recommended hotels in area >> 5)Tentative schedule >> 6) List of boats that are coming >> 7) Nearest airport >> >> Thanks for your work to date on the convention. >> >> >> On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 12:18 PM, John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >>> Steve: >>> >>> Yes I will be there on the 27th - 31st at the Seneca Clipper Inn. >>> >>> John K. >>> (203) 414-1000 >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> > On May 8, 2016, at 12:32 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> > >>> > Perfect! I'll be in touch with details. You are attending in person >>> correct? >>> > >>> > Steve >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of John Kammerer via >>> Personal_Submersibles >>> > Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2016 8:45 AM >>> > To: PSUBS, Inc. >>> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers >>> > >>> > Steve: >>> > >>> > I will do an update on Project 765 construction progress if you want! >>> > >>> > John K. >>> > (203) 414-1000 >>> > >>> > >>> >> On Thu, May 05, 2016 at 07:04 PM, Steve McQueen via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Cliff, got it. Thanks! We will be in touch regarding details. >>> >> >>> >> Steve >>> >> >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: Personal_Submersibles >>> >> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>> >> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >>> >> Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2016 5:20 PM >>> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> > >>> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers >>> >> >>> >> Jon/Steve, put me down for a presentation on my new ducted, Variable >>> >> pitch >>> >> thruster based on Minn Kota 101 trolling motor. >>> >> >>> >> Cliff >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Cliff Redus >>> >> >>> >>> On May 5, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles >>> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> All, I wanted to tag on to Jon's email. Even if you are not planning >>> >>> on >>> >> attending but would like to recommend a speaker let me know. For that >>> >> matter >>> >> if you can't attend but want to put a presentation together I think we >>> >> can >>> >> present for you or set up a remote presentation capability (think >>> >> WebEx or >>> >> GoToMeeting). >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> >>> >>> ---- Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> >>> >>>> PC2016 - CALL FOR SPEAKERS >>> >>>> >>> >>>> We are seeking technical presentations for the 2016 PSUBS >>> >>>> Convention. If you would like to give an update on your own >>> >>>> submarine or have an area of interest that you would like to share >>> >>>> please contact myself >>> >>>> (jon at psubs.org) or Steve McQueen psub101 at indy.rr.com >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Jon >>> >>>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 12 18:21:36 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 18:21:36 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers In-Reply-To: References: <20160505183328.77IOJ.221813.root@cdptpa-web16> <00307226-5666-4658-A6E1-EAF23E217E01@gmail.com> <007b01d1a722$6a0898d0$3e19ca70$@indy.rr.com> <018301d1a947$2f814c30$8e83e490$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: I'm quite disappointed to report that Snoopy and I most likely won't make the convention. We have a family function scheduled in NJ that is apparently not negotiable :( Hopefully someone will be on video detail to get some cool footage. ~ Doug S. On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 4:29 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Looks like this could be the largest number of boats we have ever had > attend a psub convention. > > My diving buddy Rick Maxwell is trying to talk me into towing the R300 to > the convention. I am tempted. It would only be a couple of hundred miles > longer than when we towed it to Islamorada Fl which turned out to be an > easy tow. I worry that the traffic in the north east would make it more > difficult. > > Cliff > > > > > On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi Cliff, >> >> I've been contacting sub owners and so far the ones who have responded >> with various degrees of "yes" include: >> >> - Jon Wallace >> - Scott and Kathy Waters >> - Brian Hughes >> - Gary Sluis >> - Dan H. >> - Greg Cottrell >> - Mark Ragan >> - Alec Smyth >> >> I expect some will drop out and one or two could be static displays >> rather than diving, but we should definitely have a little fleet even if >> half of them don't show. I've presumed you're too far away, but... >> >> >> :) >> >> Alec >> >> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Steve/Jon: >>> >>> Rick Maxwell and I would like to start nailing down travel arrangements >>> for the 2016 Psubs convention. I don't see anything on the web site on the >>> convention. I realize that it's early days and you guys are working >>> details but can you give us an update? >>> >>> 1)Firm Dates >>> 2)Dive venue >>> 3)Meeting venue >>> 4)Recommended hotels in area >>> 5)Tentative schedule >>> 6) List of boats that are coming >>> 7) Nearest airport >>> >>> Thanks for your work to date on the convention. >>> >>> >>> On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 12:18 PM, John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Steve: >>>> >>>> Yes I will be there on the 27th - 31st at the Seneca Clipper Inn. >>>> >>>> John K. >>>> (203) 414-1000 >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> > On May 8, 2016, at 12:32 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Perfect! I'll be in touch with details. You are attending in person >>>> correct? >>>> > >>>> > Steve >>>> > >>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>> > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >>>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of John Kammerer >>>> via Personal_Submersibles >>>> > Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2016 8:45 AM >>>> > To: PSUBS, Inc. >>>> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers >>>> > >>>> > Steve: >>>> > >>>> > I will do an update on Project 765 construction progress if you want! >>>> > >>>> > John K. >>>> > (203) 414-1000 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >> On Thu, May 05, 2016 at 07:04 PM, Steve McQueen via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> Cliff, got it. Thanks! We will be in touch regarding details. >>>> >> >>>> >> Steve >>>> >> >>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>> >> From: Personal_Submersibles >>>> >> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>>> >> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >> Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2016 5:20 PM >>>> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> > >>>> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers >>>> >> >>>> >> Jon/Steve, put me down for a presentation on my new ducted, Variable >>>> >> pitch >>>> >> thruster based on Minn Kota 101 trolling motor. >>>> >> >>>> >> Cliff >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Cliff Redus >>>> >> >>>> >>> On May 5, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>> >>>> >>> All, I wanted to tag on to Jon's email. Even if you are not planning >>>> >>> on >>>> >> attending but would like to recommend a speaker let me know. For that >>>> >> matter >>>> >> if you can't attend but want to put a presentation together I think >>>> we >>>> >> can >>>> >> present for you or set up a remote presentation capability (think >>>> >> WebEx or >>>> >> GoToMeeting). >>>> >>> Thanks, >>>> >>> Steve >>>> >>> >>>> >>> ---- Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> PC2016 - CALL FOR SPEAKERS >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We are seeking technical presentations for the 2016 PSUBS >>>> >>>> Convention. If you would like to give an update on your own >>>> >>>> submarine or have an area of interest that you would like to share >>>> >>>> please contact myself >>>> >>>> (jon at psubs.org) or Steve McQueen psub101 at indy.rr.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jon >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 12 18:55:18 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 18:55:18 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers In-Reply-To: References: <20160505183328.77IOJ.221813.root@cdptpa-web16> <00307226-5666-4658-A6E1-EAF23E217E01@gmail.com> <007b01d1a722$6a0898d0$3e19ca70$@indy.rr.com> <018301d1a947$2f814c30$8e83e490$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: I have suddenly developed an appreciation for Rick! Cliff, it would be seriously cool!!! The lake seems to have something that others don't, and that is the ability to keep good visibility at depth even after a huge downpour. So at least I think I can guarantee that at the end of the road you will definitely have clear water. Best, Alec On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 4:29 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Looks like this could be the largest number of boats we have ever had > attend a psub convention. > > My diving buddy Rick Maxwell is trying to talk me into towing the R300 to > the convention. I am tempted. It would only be a couple of hundred miles > longer than when we towed it to Islamorada Fl which turned out to be an > easy tow. I worry that the traffic in the north east would make it more > difficult. > > Cliff > > > > > On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi Cliff, >> >> I've been contacting sub owners and so far the ones who have responded >> with various degrees of "yes" include: >> >> - Jon Wallace >> - Scott and Kathy Waters >> - Brian Hughes >> - Gary Sluis >> - Dan H. >> - Greg Cottrell >> - Mark Ragan >> - Alec Smyth >> >> I expect some will drop out and one or two could be static displays >> rather than diving, but we should definitely have a little fleet even if >> half of them don't show. I've presumed you're too far away, but... >> >> >> :) >> >> Alec >> >> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Steve/Jon: >>> >>> Rick Maxwell and I would like to start nailing down travel arrangements >>> for the 2016 Psubs convention. I don't see anything on the web site on the >>> convention. I realize that it's early days and you guys are working >>> details but can you give us an update? >>> >>> 1)Firm Dates >>> 2)Dive venue >>> 3)Meeting venue >>> 4)Recommended hotels in area >>> 5)Tentative schedule >>> 6) List of boats that are coming >>> 7) Nearest airport >>> >>> Thanks for your work to date on the convention. >>> >>> >>> On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 12:18 PM, John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Steve: >>>> >>>> Yes I will be there on the 27th - 31st at the Seneca Clipper Inn. >>>> >>>> John K. >>>> (203) 414-1000 >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> > On May 8, 2016, at 12:32 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Perfect! I'll be in touch with details. You are attending in person >>>> correct? >>>> > >>>> > Steve >>>> > >>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>> > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >>>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of John Kammerer >>>> via Personal_Submersibles >>>> > Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2016 8:45 AM >>>> > To: PSUBS, Inc. >>>> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers >>>> > >>>> > Steve: >>>> > >>>> > I will do an update on Project 765 construction progress if you want! >>>> > >>>> > John K. >>>> > (203) 414-1000 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >> On Thu, May 05, 2016 at 07:04 PM, Steve McQueen via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> Cliff, got it. Thanks! We will be in touch regarding details. >>>> >> >>>> >> Steve >>>> >> >>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>> >> From: Personal_Submersibles >>>> >> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>>> >> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >> Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2016 5:20 PM >>>> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> > >>>> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers >>>> >> >>>> >> Jon/Steve, put me down for a presentation on my new ducted, Variable >>>> >> pitch >>>> >> thruster based on Minn Kota 101 trolling motor. >>>> >> >>>> >> Cliff >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Cliff Redus >>>> >> >>>> >>> On May 5, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>> >>>> >>> All, I wanted to tag on to Jon's email. Even if you are not planning >>>> >>> on >>>> >> attending but would like to recommend a speaker let me know. For that >>>> >> matter >>>> >> if you can't attend but want to put a presentation together I think >>>> we >>>> >> can >>>> >> present for you or set up a remote presentation capability (think >>>> >> WebEx or >>>> >> GoToMeeting). >>>> >>> Thanks, >>>> >>> Steve >>>> >>> >>>> >>> ---- Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> PC2016 - CALL FOR SPEAKERS >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We are seeking technical presentations for the 2016 PSUBS >>>> >>>> Convention. If you would like to give an update on your own >>>> >>>> submarine or have an area of interest that you would like to share >>>> >>>> please contact myself >>>> >>>> (jon at psubs.org) or Steve McQueen psub101 at indy.rr.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jon >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 12 20:15:10 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 00:15:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1359950209.1268549.1463098510350.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> James,Here is a video of the interior of Gamma, lots of stuff missing you will get the idea.Hank On Thursday, May 12, 2016 6:00 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xwoOLFIZUk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2016-05-12 at 6.00 PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 14949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 12 21:06:54 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 18:06:54 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <1359950209.1268549.1463098510350.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1359950209.1268549.1463098510350.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007301d1acb3$be63a5a0$3b2af0e0$@telus.net> Thanks for the tour, Hank! Where's the head? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 5:15 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: James, Here is a video of the interior of Gamma, lots of stuff missing you will get the idea. Hank On Thursday, May 12, 2016 6:00 PM, xxx xxxxx > wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xwoOLFIZUk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 14949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 12 21:21:22 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 01:21:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <007301d1acb3$be63a5a0$3b2af0e0$@telus.net> References: <1359950209.1268549.1463098510350.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <007301d1acb3$be63a5a0$3b2af0e0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1905886455.1292343.1463102482619.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Tim,Sorry no head, pilot relief bottle though. ?I need to find a spot for the coffee maker though.Hank On Thursday, May 12, 2016 7:06 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv7715945292 #yiv7715945292 -- _filtered #yiv7715945292 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7715945292 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7715945292 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv7715945292 #yiv7715945292 p.yiv7715945292MsoNormal, #yiv7715945292 li.yiv7715945292MsoNormal, #yiv7715945292 div.yiv7715945292MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv7715945292 a:link, #yiv7715945292 span.yiv7715945292MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7715945292 a:visited, #yiv7715945292 span.yiv7715945292MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7715945292 span.yiv7715945292EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv7715945292 .yiv7715945292MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv7715945292 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv7715945292 div.yiv7715945292WordSection1 {}#yiv7715945292 Thanks for the tour, Hank!Where's the head?Tim ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 5:15 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: ?James,Here is a video of the interior of Gamma, lots of stuff missing you will get the idea.HankOn Thursday, May 12, 2016 6:00 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: ?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xwoOLFIZUk ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 14949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 12 23:08:21 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 03:08:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod In-Reply-To: References: <667930091.852566.1463055896443.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <667930091.852566.1463055896443.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <226824397.1701453.1463108901534.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> James,while in the design stage you might pick up a lot from a tour of Carsten's sub, if youask him nicely. It's only a day trip on those fast trains.Alan From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 1:19 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod Option 2.? Again, forget about ballast tanks etc.? Boat goes the other way around.? Viewports added at the new front end.? Lockout hatch becomes dome\escape port.? Better view.? Engine does not have to slide on rails.? More work.?Basically I am just thinking at the moment. Workshop still being built.? Plenty of time to think but this is as far as ive got.? Obviously viewports at the new aft end are blanked off where necessary.? ? ? On 12 May 2016 at 14:08, James Frankland wrote: Idea 1.? Forgetting about ballast tanks, battery pods etc.? Just position of engine and viewports.? Engine would be on sliding rail to allow access to lockout hatch for emergency escape.? Brown thing is engine, red bit gearbox.?Probably the simplest configuration.? (I want to keep this boat super simple for speedy build.)?Im at work.? Only got MS paint to draw with....? ? On 12 May 2016 at 14:02, James Frankland wrote: ?Hi Hank, Not 100% sure yet.? I'm just thinking aloud really.?? I really don't know what configuration to go for with the new sub.? Priority 1 is to have a diesel engine.?This is the current configuration.? Thing bottom left is lockout hatch.? Will send some more of my thinkings... On 12 May 2016 at 13:24, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi James,What do you have in mind for a similar escape pod or similar?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 13 03:51:02 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 08:51:02 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod In-Reply-To: <226824397.1701453.1463108901534.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <667930091.852566.1463055896443.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <667930091.852566.1463055896443.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <226824397.1701453.1463108901534.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, I certainly will when im up that area. On 13 May 2016 at 04:08, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, > while in the design stage you might pick up a lot from a tour of Carsten's > sub, if you > ask him nicely. It's only a day trip on those fast trains. > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, May 13, 2016 1:19 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod > > Option 2. Again, forget about ballast tanks etc. Boat goes the other way > around. Viewports added at the new front end. Lockout hatch becomes > dome\escape port. Better view. Engine does not have to slide on rails. > More work. > > Basically I am just thinking at the moment. Workshop still being built. > Plenty of time to think but this is as far as ive got. Obviously viewports > at the new aft end are blanked off where necessary. > > > ? > > On 12 May 2016 at 14:08, James Frankland > wrote: > > Idea 1. Forgetting about ballast tanks, battery pods etc. Just position > of engine and viewports. Engine would be on sliding rail to allow access > to lockout hatch for emergency escape. Brown thing is engine, red bit > gearbox. > > Probably the simplest configuration. (I want to keep this boat super > simple for speedy build.) > > Im at work. Only got MS paint to draw with.... > > > ? > > On 12 May 2016 at 14:02, James Frankland > wrote: > > > ?Hi Hank, > > Not 100% sure yet. I'm just thinking aloud really. I really don't know > what configuration to go for with the new sub. Priority 1 is to have a > diesel engine. > > This is the current configuration. Thing bottom left is lockout hatch. > Will send some more of my thinkings... > > On 12 May 2016 at 13:24, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi James, > What do you have in mind for a similar escape pod or similar? > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 13 03:55:33 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 08:55:33 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <1905886455.1292343.1463102482619.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1359950209.1268549.1463098510350.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <007301d1acb3$be63a5a0$3b2af0e0$@telus.net> <1905886455.1292343.1463102482619.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, Many thanks for that. Very interesting tour of your sub. Escape pod is such a good idea. Have you tested the inner tube floatation thingy? Maybe you could do a test. take the pod off. Get in and get some divers to weigh it down to sink it to the bottom. Then release the weights and practice bobbing up to the surface with the inner tube? just a thought. Would be nice to see how it works and feels in a controlled way. anyway, thanks again for the video. regards James On 13 May 2016 at 02:21, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Tim, > Sorry no head, pilot relief bottle though. I need to find a spot for the > coffee maker though. > Hank > > > On Thursday, May 12, 2016 7:06 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Thanks for the tour, Hank! > Where's the head? > Tim > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, May 12, 2016 5:15 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: > > James, > Here is a video of the interior of Gamma, lots of stuff missing you will > get the idea. > Hank > On Thursday, May 12, 2016 6:00 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xwoOLFIZUk > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 14949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 13 08:32:47 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 12:32:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: <1359950209.1268549.1463098510350.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <007301d1acb3$be63a5a0$3b2af0e0$@telus.net> <1905886455.1292343.1463102482619.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <210726429.1534650.1463142767289.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi James,I have not tested the pod in the water with the inner tube inflated. ?I had planned on building a test pool but that never happened. ?The idea with the pod is to use it once I have radio contact with the surface. ?I would ditch once I know there is help on the surface to keep the pod stable. ?I know the words "inner tube" make it sound ammeter but this is a commercial grade American made tube. ?I will bet it is every bit as good as any collapsable ballast system on a professional built sub. ?I think I will change how I describe it to "inflatable skirt" haha. ?I had thought about increasing the dia of the sphere to match Gamma's hull dia, ?increasing the buoyancy greatly. ?Then the pod could be very stable with ballast weight. ?The problem is I have to drag all that weight behind my truck, so I opted for the minimum size.Hank On Friday, May 13, 2016 1:55 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, Many thanks for that.? Very interesting tour of your sub.? Escape pod is such a good idea.? Have you tested the inner tube floatation thingy?? Maybe you could do a test.? take the pod off.? Get in and get some divers to weigh it down to sink it to the bottom.? Then release the weights and practice bobbing up to the surface with the inner tube?? just a thought. Would be nice to see how it works and feels in a controlled way. anyway, thanks again for the video.regardsJames On 13 May 2016 at 02:21, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Tim,Sorry no head, pilot relief bottle though.? I need to find a spot for the coffee maker though.Hank On Thursday, May 12, 2016 7:06 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the tour, Hank!Where's the head?Tim ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 5:15 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: ?James,Here is a video of the interior of Gamma, lots of stuff missing you will get the idea.HankOn Thursday, May 12, 2016 6:00 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: ?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xwoOLFIZUk ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 14949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 13 10:42:06 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 15:42:06 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <210726429.1534650.1463142767289.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1359950209.1268549.1463098510350.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <007301d1acb3$be63a5a0$3b2af0e0$@telus.net> <1905886455.1292343.1463102482619.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <210726429.1534650.1463142767289.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: well, whatever the configuration, its such a good idea. Pity every sub cant have one. I think your stuck with the "inner tube" description of the floats. :) James On 13 May 2016 at 13:32, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi James, > I have not tested the pod in the water with the inner tube inflated. I > had planned on building a test pool but that never happened. The idea with > the pod is to use it once I have radio contact with the surface. I would > ditch once I know there is help on the surface to keep the pod stable. I > know the words "inner tube" make it sound ammeter but this is a commercial > grade American made tube. I will bet it is every bit as good as any > collapsable ballast system on a professional built sub. I think I will > change how I describe it to "inflatable skirt" haha. I had thought about > increasing the dia of the sphere to match Gamma's hull dia, increasing the > buoyancy greatly. Then the pod could be very stable with ballast weight. > The problem is I have to drag all that weight behind my truck, so I opted > for the minimum size. > Hank > > > On Friday, May 13, 2016 1:55 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > > Many thanks for that. Very interesting tour of your sub. Escape pod is > such a good idea. Have you tested the inner tube floatation thingy? Maybe > you could do a test. take the pod off. Get in and get some divers to > weigh it down to sink it to the bottom. Then release the weights and > practice bobbing up to the surface with the inner tube? just a thought. > Would be nice to see how it works and feels in a controlled way. > > anyway, thanks again for the video. > regards > James > > On 13 May 2016 at 02:21, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Tim, > Sorry no head, pilot relief bottle though. I need to find a spot for the > coffee maker though. > Hank > > > On Thursday, May 12, 2016 7:06 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Thanks for the tour, Hank! > Where's the head? > Tim > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, May 12, 2016 5:15 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: > > James, > Here is a video of the interior of Gamma, lots of stuff missing you will > get the idea. > Hank > On Thursday, May 12, 2016 6:00 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xwoOLFIZUk > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 14949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 13 18:33:31 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Daniel Lance via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 18:33:31 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers In-Reply-To: References: <20160505183328.77IOJ.221813.root@cdptpa-web16> <00307226-5666-4658-A6E1-EAF23E217E01@gmail.com> <007b01d1a722$6a0898d0$3e19ca70$@indy.rr.com> <018301d1a947$2f814c30$8e83e490$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: Cliff , Driving to up state NY is not the same as going into NYC . Don't even think twice about it , you should have no problem. Dan Lance On May 12, 2016 4:30 PM, "Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Looks like this could be the largest number of boats we have ever had > attend a psub convention. > > My diving buddy Rick Maxwell is trying to talk me into towing the R300 to > the convention. I am tempted. It would only be a couple of hundred miles > longer than when we towed it to Islamorada Fl which turned out to be an > easy tow. I worry that the traffic in the north east would make it more > difficult. > > Cliff > > > > > On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi Cliff, >> >> I've been contacting sub owners and so far the ones who have responded >> with various degrees of "yes" include: >> >> - Jon Wallace >> - Scott and Kathy Waters >> - Brian Hughes >> - Gary Sluis >> - Dan H. >> - Greg Cottrell >> - Mark Ragan >> - Alec Smyth >> >> I expect some will drop out and one or two could be static displays >> rather than diving, but we should definitely have a little fleet even if >> half of them don't show. I've presumed you're too far away, but... >> >> >> :) >> >> Alec >> >> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Steve/Jon: >>> >>> Rick Maxwell and I would like to start nailing down travel arrangements >>> for the 2016 Psubs convention. I don't see anything on the web site on the >>> convention. I realize that it's early days and you guys are working >>> details but can you give us an update? >>> >>> 1)Firm Dates >>> 2)Dive venue >>> 3)Meeting venue >>> 4)Recommended hotels in area >>> 5)Tentative schedule >>> 6) List of boats that are coming >>> 7) Nearest airport >>> >>> Thanks for your work to date on the convention. >>> >>> >>> On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 12:18 PM, John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Steve: >>>> >>>> Yes I will be there on the 27th - 31st at the Seneca Clipper Inn. >>>> >>>> John K. >>>> (203) 414-1000 >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> > On May 8, 2016, at 12:32 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Perfect! I'll be in touch with details. You are attending in person >>>> correct? >>>> > >>>> > Steve >>>> > >>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>> > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >>>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of John Kammerer >>>> via Personal_Submersibles >>>> > Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2016 8:45 AM >>>> > To: PSUBS, Inc. >>>> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers >>>> > >>>> > Steve: >>>> > >>>> > I will do an update on Project 765 construction progress if you want! >>>> > >>>> > John K. >>>> > (203) 414-1000 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >> On Thu, May 05, 2016 at 07:04 PM, Steve McQueen via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> Cliff, got it. Thanks! We will be in touch regarding details. >>>> >> >>>> >> Steve >>>> >> >>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>> >> From: Personal_Submersibles >>>> >> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>>> >> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >> Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2016 5:20 PM >>>> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> > >>>> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers >>>> >> >>>> >> Jon/Steve, put me down for a presentation on my new ducted, Variable >>>> >> pitch >>>> >> thruster based on Minn Kota 101 trolling motor. >>>> >> >>>> >> Cliff >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Cliff Redus >>>> >> >>>> >>> On May 5, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>> >>>> >>> All, I wanted to tag on to Jon's email. Even if you are not planning >>>> >>> on >>>> >> attending but would like to recommend a speaker let me know. For that >>>> >> matter >>>> >> if you can't attend but want to put a presentation together I think >>>> we >>>> >> can >>>> >> present for you or set up a remote presentation capability (think >>>> >> WebEx or >>>> >> GoToMeeting). >>>> >>> Thanks, >>>> >>> Steve >>>> >>> >>>> >>> ---- Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> PC2016 - CALL FOR SPEAKERS >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We are seeking technical presentations for the 2016 PSUBS >>>> >>>> Convention. If you would like to give an update on your own >>>> >>>> submarine or have an area of interest that you would like to share >>>> >>>> please contact myself >>>> >>>> (jon at psubs.org) or Steve McQueen psub101 at indy.rr.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jon >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 13 21:46:24 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 May 2016 01:46:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers References: <74791233.1802442.1463190384651.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <74791233.1802442.1463190384651.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I have to laugh...I used to live in Austin, TX and when I told people I was moving to upstate New York, they would say "why would you want to live in NYC?" It seems like native Texans believe all of NY is one big city or suburb of NYC but I actually live out in the sticks! Where the convention is is FAR from NYC and is actually quite rural...check it out in google maps satellite mode! Al Secor -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 5/13/16, Daniel Lance via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Friday, May 13, 2016, 6:33 PM Cliff , Driving to up state NY is not the same as going into NYC . Don't even think twice about it , you should have no problem. Dan Lance On May 12, 2016 4:30 PM, "Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Looks like this could be the largest number of boats we have ever had attend a psub convention. My diving buddy Rick Maxwell is trying to talk me into towing the R300 to the convention.? I am tempted.? It would only be a couple of hundred miles longer than when we towed it to Islamorada Fl which turned out to be an easy tow.? I worry that the traffic in the north east would make it more difficult.? Cliff On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, I've been contacting sub owners and so far the ones who have responded with various degrees of "yes" include: - Jon Wallace- Scott and Kathy Waters- Brian Hughes- Gary Sluis- Dan H.- Greg Cottrell- Mark Ragan- Alec Smyth I expect some will drop out and one or two could be static displays rather than diving, but we should definitely have a little fleet even if half of them don't show. I've presumed you're too far away, but... :) Alec On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Steve/Jon: Rick Maxwell and I?would like to start nailing down travel arrangements for the 2016 Psubs convention.? I don't see anything on the web site on the convention.? I realize that it's early days and you guys are working details but can you give us an update? 1)Firm Dates2)Dive venue3)Meeting venue4)Recommended hotels in area5)Tentative schedule6) List of boats that are coming7) Nearest airport Thanks for your work to date on the convention.? On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 12:18 PM, John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Steve: Yes I will be there on the 27th - 31st at the Seneca Clipper Inn. John K. (203) 414-1000 Sent from my iPhone > On May 8, 2016, at 12:32 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Perfect! I'll be in touch with details. You are attending in person correct? > > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2016 8:45 AM > To: PSUBS, Inc. > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers > > Steve: > > I will do an update on Project 765 construction progress if you want! > > John K. > (203) 414-1000 > > >> On Thu, May 05, 2016 at 07:04 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Cliff, got it. Thanks!? We will be in touch regarding details. >> >> Steve >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Personal_Submersibles >> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2016 5:20 PM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers >> >> Jon/Steve, put me down for a presentation on my new ducted, Variable >> pitch >> thruster based on Minn Kota 101 trolling motor. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> Cliff Redus >> >>> On May 5, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >>> >>> All, I wanted to tag on to Jon's email. Even if you are not planning >>> on >> attending but would like to recommend a speaker let me know. For that >> matter >> if you can't attend but want to put a presentation together I think we >> can >> present for you or set up a remote presentation capability (think >> WebEx or >> GoToMeeting). >>> Thanks, >>> Steve >>> >>> ---- Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >>>> >>>> PC2016 - CALL FOR SPEAKERS >>>> >>>> We are seeking technical presentations for the 2016 PSUBS >>>> Convention.? If you would like to give an update on your own >>>> submarine or have an area of interest that you would like to share >>>> please contact myself >>>> (jon at psubs.org) or Steve McQueen psub101 at indy.rr.com >>>> >>>> Jon >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 13 21:50:14 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 18:50:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers In-Reply-To: References: <20160505183328.77IOJ.221813.root@cdptpa-web16> <00307226-5666-4658-A6E1-EAF23E217E01@gmail.com> <007b01d1a722$6a0898d0$3e19ca70$@indy.rr.com> <018301d1a947$2f814c30$8e83e490$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: Douglas, want to loan out snoopy? On May 12, 2016 3:22 PM, "Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I'm quite disappointed to report that Snoopy and I most likely won't make > the convention. We have a family function scheduled in NJ that is > apparently not negotiable :( > > Hopefully someone will be on video detail to get some cool footage. ~ Doug > S. > > On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 4:29 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Looks like this could be the largest number of boats we have ever had >> attend a psub convention. >> >> My diving buddy Rick Maxwell is trying to talk me into towing the R300 to >> the convention. I am tempted. It would only be a couple of hundred miles >> longer than when we towed it to Islamorada Fl which turned out to be an >> easy tow. I worry that the traffic in the north east would make it more >> difficult. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi Cliff, >>> >>> I've been contacting sub owners and so far the ones who have responded >>> with various degrees of "yes" include: >>> >>> - Jon Wallace >>> - Scott and Kathy Waters >>> - Brian Hughes >>> - Gary Sluis >>> - Dan H. >>> - Greg Cottrell >>> - Mark Ragan >>> - Alec Smyth >>> >>> I expect some will drop out and one or two could be static displays >>> rather than diving, but we should definitely have a little fleet even if >>> half of them don't show. I've presumed you're too far away, but... >>> >>> >>> :) >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Steve/Jon: >>>> >>>> Rick Maxwell and I would like to start nailing down travel arrangements >>>> for the 2016 Psubs convention. I don't see anything on the web site on the >>>> convention. I realize that it's early days and you guys are working >>>> details but can you give us an update? >>>> >>>> 1)Firm Dates >>>> 2)Dive venue >>>> 3)Meeting venue >>>> 4)Recommended hotels in area >>>> 5)Tentative schedule >>>> 6) List of boats that are coming >>>> 7) Nearest airport >>>> >>>> Thanks for your work to date on the convention. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 12:18 PM, John Kammerer via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>>> Steve: >>>>> >>>>> Yes I will be there on the 27th - 31st at the Seneca Clipper Inn. >>>>> >>>>> John K. >>>>> (203) 414-1000 >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> > On May 8, 2016, at 12:32 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > Perfect! I'll be in touch with details. You are attending in person >>>>> correct? >>>>> > >>>>> > Steve >>>>> > >>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>> > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >>>>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of John Kammerer >>>>> via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> > Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2016 8:45 AM >>>>> > To: PSUBS, Inc. >>>>> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers >>>>> > >>>>> > Steve: >>>>> > >>>>> > I will do an update on Project 765 construction progress if you want! >>>>> > >>>>> > John K. >>>>> > (203) 414-1000 >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >> On Thu, May 05, 2016 at 07:04 PM, Steve McQueen via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Cliff, got it. Thanks! We will be in touch regarding details. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Steve >>>>> >> >>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>> >> From: Personal_Submersibles >>>>> >> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>>>> >> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> >> Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2016 5:20 PM >>>>> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> > >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Jon/Steve, put me down for a presentation on my new ducted, Variable >>>>> >> pitch >>>>> >> thruster based on Minn Kota 101 trolling motor. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Cliff >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Cliff Redus >>>>> >> >>>>> >>> On May 5, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> All, I wanted to tag on to Jon's email. Even if you are not >>>>> planning >>>>> >>> on >>>>> >> attending but would like to recommend a speaker let me know. For >>>>> that >>>>> >> matter >>>>> >> if you can't attend but want to put a presentation together I think >>>>> we >>>>> >> can >>>>> >> present for you or set up a remote presentation capability (think >>>>> >> WebEx or >>>>> >> GoToMeeting). >>>>> >>> Thanks, >>>>> >>> Steve >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> ---- Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> PC2016 - CALL FOR SPEAKERS >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> We are seeking technical presentations for the 2016 PSUBS >>>>> >>>> Convention. If you would like to give an update on your own >>>>> >>>> submarine or have an area of interest that you would like to share >>>>> >>>> please contact myself >>>>> >>>> (jon at psubs.org) or Steve McQueen psub101 at indy.rr.com >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Jon >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 13 23:00:30 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 23:00:30 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers In-Reply-To: References: <20160505183328.77IOJ.221813.root@cdptpa-web16> <00307226-5666-4658-A6E1-EAF23E217E01@gmail.com> <007b01d1a722$6a0898d0$3e19ca70$@indy.rr.com> <018301d1a947$2f814c30$8e83e490$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: Ha! Not yet, I haven't even had a chance to dive her yet! As a matter of fact, Snoopy is in a number of pieces at the moment as I work to learn more about her workings. ~ Doug S. On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 9:50 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Douglas, want to loan out snoopy? > On May 12, 2016 3:22 PM, "Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> I'm quite disappointed to report that Snoopy and I most likely won't make >> the convention. We have a family function scheduled in NJ that is >> apparently not negotiable :( >> >> Hopefully someone will be on video detail to get some cool footage. ~ >> Doug S. >> >> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 4:29 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Looks like this could be the largest number of boats we have ever had >>> attend a psub convention. >>> >>> My diving buddy Rick Maxwell is trying to talk me into towing the R300 >>> to the convention. I am tempted. It would only be a couple of hundred >>> miles longer than when we towed it to Islamorada Fl which turned out to be >>> an easy tow. I worry that the traffic in the north east would make it more >>> difficult. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Cliff, >>>> >>>> I've been contacting sub owners and so far the ones who have responded >>>> with various degrees of "yes" include: >>>> >>>> - Jon Wallace >>>> - Scott and Kathy Waters >>>> - Brian Hughes >>>> - Gary Sluis >>>> - Dan H. >>>> - Greg Cottrell >>>> - Mark Ragan >>>> - Alec Smyth >>>> >>>> I expect some will drop out and one or two could be static displays >>>> rather than diving, but we should definitely have a little fleet even if >>>> half of them don't show. I've presumed you're too far away, but... >>>> >>>> >>>> :) >>>> >>>> Alec >>>> >>>> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Steve/Jon: >>>>> >>>>> Rick Maxwell and I would like to start nailing down travel >>>>> arrangements for the 2016 Psubs convention. I don't see anything on the >>>>> web site on the convention. I realize that it's early days and you guys >>>>> are working details but can you give us an update? >>>>> >>>>> 1)Firm Dates >>>>> 2)Dive venue >>>>> 3)Meeting venue >>>>> 4)Recommended hotels in area >>>>> 5)Tentative schedule >>>>> 6) List of boats that are coming >>>>> 7) Nearest airport >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for your work to date on the convention. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 12:18 PM, John Kammerer via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Steve: >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes I will be there on the 27th - 31st at the Seneca Clipper Inn. >>>>>> >>>>>> John K. >>>>>> (203) 414-1000 >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> > On May 8, 2016, at 12:32 PM, Steve McQueen via >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Perfect! I'll be in touch with details. You are attending in person >>>>>> correct? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Steve >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>>> > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >>>>>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of John Kammerer >>>>>> via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> > Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2016 8:45 AM >>>>>> > To: PSUBS, Inc. >>>>>> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Steve: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I will do an update on Project 765 construction progress if you >>>>>> want! >>>>>> > >>>>>> > John K. >>>>>> > (203) 414-1000 >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> On Thu, May 05, 2016 at 07:04 PM, Steve McQueen via >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Cliff, got it. Thanks! We will be in touch regarding details. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Steve >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> >> From: Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> >> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>>>>> >> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> >> Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2016 5:20 PM >>>>>> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Jon/Steve, put me down for a presentation on my new ducted, >>>>>> Variable >>>>>> >> pitch >>>>>> >> thruster based on Minn Kota 101 trolling motor. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Cliff >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Cliff Redus >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>> On May 5, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Steve McQueen via >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> All, I wanted to tag on to Jon's email. Even if you are not >>>>>> planning >>>>>> >>> on >>>>>> >> attending but would like to recommend a speaker let me know. For >>>>>> that >>>>>> >> matter >>>>>> >> if you can't attend but want to put a presentation together I >>>>>> think we >>>>>> >> can >>>>>> >> present for you or set up a remote presentation capability (think >>>>>> >> WebEx or >>>>>> >> GoToMeeting). >>>>>> >>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>> Steve >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> ---- Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> PC2016 - CALL FOR SPEAKERS >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> We are seeking technical presentations for the 2016 PSUBS >>>>>> >>>> Convention. If you would like to give an update on your own >>>>>> >>>> submarine or have an area of interest that you would like to >>>>>> share >>>>>> >>>> please contact myself >>>>>> >>>> (jon at psubs.org) or Steve McQueen psub101 at indy.rr.com >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> Jon >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 14 00:02:11 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 May 2016 04:02:11 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers In-Reply-To: References: <20160505183328.77IOJ.221813.root@cdptpa-web16> <00307226-5666-4658-A6E1-EAF23E217E01@gmail.com> <007b01d1a722$6a0898d0$3e19ca70$@indy.rr.com> <018301d1a947$2f814c30$8e83e490$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: Well, at least your working on her. SeaQuestor, is on a momentary hold while I finish building our house and a new shop. On Fri, May 13, 2016, 8:01 PM Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Ha! Not yet, I haven't even had a chance to dive her yet! As a matter of > fact, Snoopy is in a number of pieces at the moment as I work to learn more > about her workings. ~ Doug S. > > On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 9:50 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Douglas, want to loan out snoopy? >> On May 12, 2016 3:22 PM, "Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles" < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> I'm quite disappointed to report that Snoopy and I most likely won't >>> make the convention. We have a family function scheduled in NJ that is >>> apparently not negotiable :( >>> >>> Hopefully someone will be on video detail to get some cool footage. ~ >>> Doug S. >>> >>> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 4:29 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Looks like this could be the largest number of boats we have ever had >>>> attend a psub convention. >>>> >>>> My diving buddy Rick Maxwell is trying to talk me into towing the R300 >>>> to the convention. I am tempted. It would only be a couple of hundred >>>> miles longer than when we towed it to Islamorada Fl which turned out to be >>>> an easy tow. I worry that the traffic in the north east would make it more >>>> difficult. >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Cliff, >>>>> >>>>> I've been contacting sub owners and so far the ones who have responded >>>>> with various degrees of "yes" include: >>>>> >>>>> - Jon Wallace >>>>> - Scott and Kathy Waters >>>>> - Brian Hughes >>>>> - Gary Sluis >>>>> - Dan H. >>>>> - Greg Cottrell >>>>> - Mark Ragan >>>>> - Alec Smyth >>>>> >>>>> I expect some will drop out and one or two could be static displays >>>>> rather than diving, but we should definitely have a little fleet even if >>>>> half of them don't show. I've presumed you're too far away, but... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> :) >>>>> >>>>> Alec >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Cliff Redus via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Steve/Jon: >>>>>> >>>>>> Rick Maxwell and I would like to start nailing down travel >>>>>> arrangements for the 2016 Psubs convention. I don't see anything on the >>>>>> web site on the convention. I realize that it's early days and you guys >>>>>> are working details but can you give us an update? >>>>>> >>>>>> 1)Firm Dates >>>>>> 2)Dive venue >>>>>> 3)Meeting venue >>>>>> 4)Recommended hotels in area >>>>>> 5)Tentative schedule >>>>>> 6) List of boats that are coming >>>>>> 7) Nearest airport >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for your work to date on the convention. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 12:18 PM, John Kammerer via >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Steve: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes I will be there on the 27th - 31st at the Seneca Clipper Inn. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> John K. >>>>>>> (203) 414-1000 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > On May 8, 2016, at 12:32 PM, Steve McQueen via >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Perfect! I'll be in touch with details. You are attending in >>>>>>> person correct? >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Steve >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >>>>>>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of John Kammerer >>>>>>> via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>> > Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2016 8:45 AM >>>>>>> > To: PSUBS, Inc. >>>>>>> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Steve: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > I will do an update on Project 765 construction progress if you >>>>>>> want! >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > John K. >>>>>>> > (203) 414-1000 >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >> On Thu, May 05, 2016 at 07:04 PM, Steve McQueen via >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Cliff, got it. Thanks! We will be in touch regarding details. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Steve >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> >> From: Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>> >> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>>>>>> >> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>> >> Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2016 5:20 PM >>>>>>> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Jon/Steve, put me down for a presentation on my new ducted, >>>>>>> Variable >>>>>>> >> pitch >>>>>>> >> thruster based on Minn Kota 101 trolling motor. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Cliff >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Cliff Redus >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>> On May 5, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Steve McQueen via >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> All, I wanted to tag on to Jon's email. Even if you are not >>>>>>> planning >>>>>>> >>> on >>>>>>> >> attending but would like to recommend a speaker let me know. For >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> >> matter >>>>>>> >> if you can't attend but want to put a presentation together I >>>>>>> think we >>>>>>> >> can >>>>>>> >> present for you or set up a remote presentation capability (think >>>>>>> >> WebEx or >>>>>>> >> GoToMeeting). >>>>>>> >>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>> Steve >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> ---- Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> PC2016 - CALL FOR SPEAKERS >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> We are seeking technical presentations for the 2016 PSUBS >>>>>>> >>>> Convention. If you would like to give an update on your own >>>>>>> >>>> submarine or have an area of interest that you would like to >>>>>>> share >>>>>>> >>>> please contact myself >>>>>>> >>>> (jon at psubs.org) or Steve McQueen psub101 at indy.rr.com >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> Jon >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 14 12:28:35 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 May 2016 16:28:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] S101 submarine References: <961122422.2048292.1463243315890.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <961122422.2048292.1463243315890.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Been talking with the broker for the S 101 submarine and they are slowly coming down on price. ?They are down to 198,000 US, I think they will have to go further, not because it is not worth it in replacement cost but because it is not certified and the dome is out of date as well as the cylinder. ?When you look at the pictures very closely it resembles a home built more than a professional built sub. ?This is probably due to the age and many owners. ?Very cool sub though!Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 14 14:13:35 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 May 2016 14:13:35 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers In-Reply-To: References: <20160505183328.77IOJ.221813.root@cdptpa-web16> <00307226-5666-4658-A6E1-EAF23E217E01@gmail.com> <007b01d1a722$6a0898d0$3e19ca70$@indy.rr.com> <018301d1a947$2f814c30$8e83e490$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: Dave, I'm sorry to hear progress on the SeaQuestor project is momentarily at a standstill, but the completion of a new shop should definitely help things along! ~ Doug S. On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 12:02 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Well, at least your working on her. SeaQuestor, is on a momentary hold > while I finish building our house and a new shop. > > On Fri, May 13, 2016, 8:01 PM Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Ha! Not yet, I haven't even had a chance to dive her yet! As a matter of >> fact, Snoopy is in a number of pieces at the moment as I work to learn more >> about her workings. ~ Doug S. >> >> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 9:50 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >>> Douglas, want to loan out snoopy? >>> On May 12, 2016 3:22 PM, "Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles" < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I'm quite disappointed to report that Snoopy and I most likely won't >>>> make the convention. We have a family function scheduled in NJ that is >>>> apparently not negotiable :( >>>> >>>> Hopefully someone will be on video detail to get some cool footage. ~ >>>> Doug S. >>>> >>>> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 4:29 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Looks like this could be the largest number of boats we have ever had >>>>> attend a psub convention. >>>>> >>>>> My diving buddy Rick Maxwell is trying to talk me into towing the R300 >>>>> to the convention. I am tempted. It would only be a couple of hundred >>>>> miles longer than when we towed it to Islamorada Fl which turned out to be >>>>> an easy tow. I worry that the traffic in the north east would make it more >>>>> difficult. >>>>> >>>>> Cliff >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Cliff, >>>>>> >>>>>> I've been contacting sub owners and so far the ones who have >>>>>> responded with various degrees of "yes" include: >>>>>> >>>>>> - Jon Wallace >>>>>> - Scott and Kathy Waters >>>>>> - Brian Hughes >>>>>> - Gary Sluis >>>>>> - Dan H. >>>>>> - Greg Cottrell >>>>>> - Mark Ragan >>>>>> - Alec Smyth >>>>>> >>>>>> I expect some will drop out and one or two could be static displays >>>>>> rather than diving, but we should definitely have a little fleet even if >>>>>> half of them don't show. I've presumed you're too far away, but... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> :) >>>>>> >>>>>> Alec >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Cliff Redus via >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Steve/Jon: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rick Maxwell and I would like to start nailing down travel >>>>>>> arrangements for the 2016 Psubs convention. I don't see anything on the >>>>>>> web site on the convention. I realize that it's early days and you guys >>>>>>> are working details but can you give us an update? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1)Firm Dates >>>>>>> 2)Dive venue >>>>>>> 3)Meeting venue >>>>>>> 4)Recommended hotels in area >>>>>>> 5)Tentative schedule >>>>>>> 6) List of boats that are coming >>>>>>> 7) Nearest airport >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for your work to date on the convention. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 12:18 PM, John Kammerer via >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Steve: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes I will be there on the 27th - 31st at the Seneca Clipper Inn. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> John K. >>>>>>>> (203) 414-1000 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > On May 8, 2016, at 12:32 PM, Steve McQueen via >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Perfect! I'll be in touch with details. You are attending in >>>>>>>> person correct? >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Steve >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >>>>>>>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of John >>>>>>>> Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>>> > Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2016 8:45 AM >>>>>>>> > To: PSUBS, Inc. >>>>>>>> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Steve: >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > I will do an update on Project 765 construction progress if you >>>>>>>> want! >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > John K. >>>>>>>> > (203) 414-1000 >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >> On Thu, May 05, 2016 at 07:04 PM, Steve McQueen via >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Cliff, got it. Thanks! We will be in touch regarding details. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Steve >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> >> From: Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>>> >> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>>>>>>> >> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>>> >> Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2016 5:20 PM >>>>>>>> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2016 - PSUBS Convention Speakers >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Jon/Steve, put me down for a presentation on my new ducted, >>>>>>>> Variable >>>>>>>> >> pitch >>>>>>>> >> thruster based on Minn Kota 101 trolling motor. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Cliff >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Cliff Redus >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >>> On May 5, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Steve McQueen via >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> All, I wanted to tag on to Jon's email. Even if you are not >>>>>>>> planning >>>>>>>> >>> on >>>>>>>> >> attending but would like to recommend a speaker let me know. For >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> >> matter >>>>>>>> >> if you can't attend but want to put a presentation together I >>>>>>>> think we >>>>>>>> >> can >>>>>>>> >> present for you or set up a remote presentation capability (think >>>>>>>> >> WebEx or >>>>>>>> >> GoToMeeting). >>>>>>>> >>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> >>> Steve >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> ---- Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> PC2016 - CALL FOR SPEAKERS >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> We are seeking technical presentations for the 2016 PSUBS >>>>>>>> >>>> Convention. If you would like to give an update on your own >>>>>>>> >>>> submarine or have an area of interest that you would like to >>>>>>>> share >>>>>>>> >>>> please contact myself >>>>>>>> >>>> (jon at psubs.org) or Steve McQueen psub101 at indy.rr.com >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> Jon >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 14 17:21:39 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 May 2016 14:21:39 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] S101 submarine In-Reply-To: <961122422.2048292.1463243315890.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <961122422.2048292.1463243315890.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <961122422.2048292.1463243315890.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001d1ae26$9b4cffc0$d1e6ff40$@telus.net> Can you post a pic, Hank? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2016 9:29 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] S101 submarine Been talking with the broker for the S 101 submarine and they are slowly coming down on price. They are down to 198,000 US, I think they will have to go further, not because it is not worth it in replacement cost but because it is not certified and the dome is out of date as well as the cylinder. When you look at the pictures very closely it resembles a home built more than a professional built sub. This is probably due to the age and many owners. Very cool sub though! Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 14 17:26:21 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 May 2016 21:26:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1505604139.2048017.1463261181674.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Tim,This is it, I am sure you have seen it. ?I just talk to them for the fun of it and to see the?exhaust system ;-)Hank On Saturday, May 14, 2016 3:24 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: Used 1987 Marlin 32 Diesel Electric S101 Manned Submarine for sale ... https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwjUkI79v9rMAhVH6YMKHedVCPcQtwIIHDAA&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxOgCCAeJP4&usg=AFQjCNEHB9BdOXcP-FyEDcpBN9Lov_Pfsg&sig2=E9ntSs51qyMfsC550gM6jA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 14 18:05:25 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 May 2016 15:05:25 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] S101 submarine Message-ID: <20160514150525.B0A1CFC7@m0087794.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 14 18:49:03 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 May 2016 22:49:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] S101 submarine In-Reply-To: <20160514150525.B0A1CFC7@m0087794.ppops.net> References: <20160514150525.B0A1CFC7@m0087794.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1275523329.2051132.1463266143355.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Brian,I don't know much about it really. ?It probably had a little hatch leak and some one got their panties in a bunch. ?Heck for a while I was?thinking about eve's troughs in Gamma?until I fixed one hatch dog. ?Lol ?That bow thruster would be good on your sub because your sub is so long. ?Hank On Saturday, May 14, 2016 4:05 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,?????? I like the bow thruster !? I'm thinking of one of those at some point.??? People were commenting that it has some leaks, know anything about that??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] S101 submarine Date: Sat, 14 May 2016 16:28:35 +0000 (UTC) Been talking with the broker for the S 101 submarine and they are slowly coming down on price. ?They are down to 198,000 US, I think they will have to go further, not because it is not worth it in replacement cost but because it is not certified and the dome is out of date as well as the cylinder. ?When you look at the pictures very closely it resembles a home built more than a professional built sub. ?This is probably due to the age and many owners. ?Very cool sub though!Hank_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 14 21:36:10 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 May 2016 18:36:10 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] : S101 v. DDI Message-ID: <002901d1ae4a$298fadf0$7caf09d0$@telus.net> Thanks, Hank. Oh no!!! Another black submarine!! I just googled it and up it came, this link too. Yup, I have seen it before (not in person). Interesting submarine. Too bad it's not still in Seattle. I suppose the nose is so long so that it is faster surfaced. Love the front dome. Bow thruster is terrific, a stern thruster would be a nice add on. Hmmm, Scott is not impressed. I should contact the guy at Ocean Explorer.us about Deep Dive I, also in Florida. Its 10 foot beam is too wide for trailering, and 12000 pounds is just about all my truck can tow. Still, it would be good to compare the price between DDI and S101. http://www.oceanexplorer.us/page2.html Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2016 2:26 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Hi Tim, This is it, I am sure you have seen it. I just talk to them for the fun of it and to see the exhaust system ;-) Hank On Saturday, May 14, 2016 3:24 PM, xxx xxxxx > wrote: Used 1987 Marlin 32 Diesel Electric S101 Manned Submarine for sale ... https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t &rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwjUkI79v9rMAhVH6YMKHedVCPcQtwIIHDAA&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxOgCCAeJP4&usg=AFQjCNEHB9BdOXcP-FyEDcpBN9Lov_Pfsg&sig2=E9ntSs51qyMfsC550gM6jA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 15 02:30:18 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 15 May 2016 08:30:18 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <1505604139.2048017.1463261181674.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1505604139.2048017.1463261181674.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1463293818479.279188.1d4863b28df122eb9d894aba2218dcb600dcf013@spica.telekom.de> Hi Hank, thanks for the video. Seems still in good condition. I steel some concept from this boat, like the bolted flange of the machinery room and the moving trim ballast on rollers. The "long nose" bow seems a later add? I assume for more lift (Bouancy) in the bow area. Is it possible to slide into the machinery room during runnng machinery at sea ? Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Datum: 2016-05-14T23:31:42+0200 Von: "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Hi Tim, This is it, I am sure you have seen it. I just talk to them for the fun of it and to see the exhaust system ;-) Hank On Saturday, May 14, 2016 3:24 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: Used 1987 Marlin 32 Diesel Electric S101 Manned Submarine for sale ... https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwjUkI79v9rMAhVH6YMKHedVCPcQtwIIHDAA&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxOgCCAeJP4&usg=AFQjCNEHB9BdOXcP-FyEDcpBN9Lov_Pfsg&sig2=E9ntSs51qyMfsC550gM6jA ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 15 08:22:14 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 15 May 2016 12:22:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <1463293818479.279188.1d4863b28df122eb9d894aba2218dcb600dcf013@spica.telekom.de> References: <1505604139.2048017.1463261181674.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1463293818479.279188.1d4863b28df122eb9d894aba2218dcb600dcf013@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <293474044.2297237.1463314934431.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Carsten,I will ask about the broker about that. ?I agree it is in good condition, it is just tired and needs some loving.Hank On Sunday, May 15, 2016 12:30 AM, "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Hi Hank, thanks for the video. Seems still in good condition. ?I steel some concept from this boat, like the bolted flange of the machinery room and the moving trim ballast on rollers. The "long nose" bow seems a later add? I assume for more lift (Bouancy) in the bow area. ?Is it possible to slide into the machinery room during runnng machinery at sea ??Carsten????-----Original-Nachricht-----Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw:Datum: 2016-05-14T23:31:42+0200Von: "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ???Hi Tim,This is it, I am sure you have seen it. ?I just talk to them for the fun of it and to see the?exhaust system ;-)Hank On Saturday, May 14, 2016 3:24 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: Used 1987 Marlin 32 Diesel Electric S101 Manned Submarine for sale ...?https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwjUkI79v9rMAhVH6YMKHedVCPcQtwIIHDAA&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxOgCCAeJP4&usg=AFQjCNEHB9BdOXcP-FyEDcpBN9Lov_Pfsg&sig2=E9ntSs51qyMfsC550gM6jA ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 15 10:49:54 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 15 May 2016 14:49:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <293474044.2297237.1463314934431.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1505604139.2048017.1463261181674.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1463293818479.279188.1d4863b28df122eb9d894aba2218dcb600dcf013@spica.telekom.de> <293474044.2297237.1463314934431.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1795150279.2259267.1463323794695.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Carsten, I heard back from the broker selling S101 and he says he is 5 foot 9 and 170 lbs and he can get in the engine compartment.Hank On Sunday, May 15, 2016 6:25 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Carsten,I will ask about the broker about that. ?I agree it is in good condition, it is just tired and needs some loving.Hank On Sunday, May 15, 2016 12:30 AM, "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Hi Hank, thanks for the video. Seems still in good condition. ?I steel some concept from this boat, like the bolted flange of the machinery room and the moving trim ballast on rollers. The "long nose" bow seems a later add? I assume for more lift (Bouancy) in the bow area. ?Is it possible to slide into the machinery room during runnng machinery at sea ??Carsten????-----Original-Nachricht-----Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw:Datum: 2016-05-14T23:31:42+0200Von: "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ???Hi Tim,This is it, I am sure you have seen it. ?I just talk to them for the fun of it and to see the?exhaust system ;-)Hank On Saturday, May 14, 2016 3:24 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: Used 1987 Marlin 32 Diesel Electric S101 Manned Submarine for sale ...?https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwjUkI79v9rMAhVH6YMKHedVCPcQtwIIHDAA&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxOgCCAeJP4&usg=AFQjCNEHB9BdOXcP-FyEDcpBN9Lov_Pfsg&sig2=E9ntSs51qyMfsC550gM6jA ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 15 20:50:54 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 15 May 2016 19:50:54 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA Message-ID: Is there anyone who can do a FEA for Pisces VI? If not does anyone know anyone who can? Also, what is the cost and what is needed to do one?Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 15 21:16:10 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 15 May 2016 21:16:10 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Scott, I think Dave Columbo could help you with that... remember his presentation at the '13 Keys convention that covered FEA on the Seaquestor pressure hull... that was pretty cool. Not sure who helped him out though, maybe he can chime in. ~ Doug S. On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 8:50 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Is there anyone who can do a FEA for Pisces VI? If not does anyone know > anyone who can? Also, what is the cost and what is needed to do one? > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 16 00:06:28 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 15 May 2016 21:06:28 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA Message-ID: <20160515210628.E77FDFDE@m0087798.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 16 02:15:40 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 May 2016 06:15:40 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA In-Reply-To: <20160515210628.E77FDFDE@m0087798.ppops.net> References: <20160515210628.E77FDFDE@m0087798.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi Scott, I started with a company here in california. But I don't think they would be the right fit for the PVI. I'll look up a company I spoke with last year and send you their info. On Sun, May 15, 2016, 9:07 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Scott, There's these guys : > > > http://artisanind.com/certified-pressure-vessels/?gclid=Cj0KEQjwvOC5BRCb_8yNmZ_ls9IBEiQACTz8vn9coGX1TmOBaxs1kNrcbcz50OxluGRtkSw9MY-Wm9oaAi1V8P8HAQ > > It seems like there was a link on the psubs web site to an outfit who > offered FEA engineering, it was a link to another part of their web site > as a info link. > > BTW, when I go on the psubs site I don't see any navigation links? I can > get to the design page only because I have it saved. > > > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: psubs > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA > Date: Sun, 15 May 2016 19:50:54 -0500 > > Is there anyone who can do a FEA for Pisces VI? If not does anyone know > anyone who can? Also, what is the cost and what is needed to do one? > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 16 04:01:26 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 May 2016 08:01:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA In-Reply-To: References: <20160515210628.E77FDFDE@m0087798.ppops.net> Message-ID: <267538783.3054623.1463385686733.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Scott,what's wrong with Hank's long rope? It will always give you a very accurate crush depth!A good starting point would be to take detailed measurements as they would be neededwhatever way you go.?? I met a lady on a train in Greece who was an FEA expert for Lloyds in London.she spent most of her time analyzing super tankers etc. I picked her brains for 4 hrs & wasn't left that confident with the process. Hugh told me he had his hull analysed with FEAtwice & the first was way off from the second, more detailed analysis. He might fill you in on the cost.?? Are traditional engineering?formulas not good enough if you have standard geometric shapes?Been seeing the pictures on FB, man what a project.Alan From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA Hi Scott, I started with a company here in california. But I don't think they would be the right fit for the PVI. I'll look up a company I spoke with last year and send you their info. On Sun, May 15, 2016, 9:07 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott,??????? There's these guys :?http://artisanind.com/certified-pressure-vessels/?gclid=Cj0KEQjwvOC5BRCb_8yNmZ_ls9IBEiQACTz8vn9coGX1TmOBaxs1kNrcbcz50OxluGRtkSw9MY-Wm9oaAi1V8P8HAQ?It seems like there was a link on the psubs web site to an outfit who offered FEA engineering,? it was a link to another part of their web site as a info link.? ?BTW, when I go on the psubs site I don't see any navigation links??? I can get to the design page only because I have it saved.???Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: psubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA Date: Sun, 15 May 2016 19:50:54 -0500 Is there anyone who can do a FEA for Pisces VI? If not does anyone know anyone who can? Also, what is the cost and what is needed to do one?Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 16 08:04:53 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 May 2016 12:04:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA In-Reply-To: <267538783.3054623.1463385686733.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160515210628.E77FDFDE@m0087798.ppops.net> <267538783.3054623.1463385686733.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1225007244.2702542.1463400293398.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Scott,You can try Thomas Trudel, he is Karl's Guy or else I would ask Triton Submarines. ?Hank?Thomas e mail is ? ouside.innovations at gmail.com On Monday, May 16, 2016 2:04 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott,what's wrong with Hank's long rope? It will always give you a very accurate crush depth!A good starting point would be to take detailed measurements as they would be neededwhatever way you go.?? I met a lady on a train in Greece who was an FEA expert for Lloyds in London.she spent most of her time analyzing super tankers etc. I picked her brains for 4 hrs & wasn't left that confident with the process. Hugh told me he had his hull analysed with FEAtwice & the first was way off from the second, more detailed analysis. He might fill you in on the cost.?? Are traditional engineering?formulas not good enough if you have standard geometric shapes?Been seeing the pictures on FB, man what a project.Alan From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA Hi Scott, I started with a company here in california. But I don't think they would be the right fit for the PVI. I'll look up a company I spoke with last year and send you their info. On Sun, May 15, 2016, 9:07 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott,??????? There's these guys :?http://artisanind.com/certified-pressure-vessels/?gclid=Cj0KEQjwvOC5BRCb_8yNmZ_ls9IBEiQACTz8vn9coGX1TmOBaxs1kNrcbcz50OxluGRtkSw9MY-Wm9oaAi1V8P8HAQ?It seems like there was a link on the psubs web site to an outfit who offered FEA engineering,? it was a link to another part of their web site as a info link.? ?BTW, when I go on the psubs site I don't see any navigation links??? I can get to the design page only because I have it saved.???Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: psubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA Date: Sun, 15 May 2016 19:50:54 -0500 Is there anyone who can do a FEA for Pisces VI? If not does anyone know anyone who can? Also, what is the cost and what is needed to do one?Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 16 09:27:52 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 May 2016 08:27:52 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA Message-ID: <31flpgbakpyxqxat6cph46u6.1463405272532@email.android.com> A FEA is required for the ABS recert.?Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Date: 05/16/2016 3:01 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA Scott,what's wrong with Hank's long rope? It will always give you a very accurate crush depth!A good starting point would be to take detailed measurements as they would be neededwhatever way you go.?? I met a lady on a train in Greece who was an FEA expert for Lloyds in London.she spent most of her time analyzing super tankers etc. I picked her brains for 4 hrs & wasn't left that confident with the process. Hugh told me he had his hull analysed with FEAtwice & the first was way off from the second, more detailed analysis. He might fill you in on the cost.?? Are traditional engineering?formulas not good enough if you have standard geometric shapes?Been seeing the pictures on FB, man what a project.Alan From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA Hi Scott, I started with a company here in california. But I don't think they would be the right fit for the PVI. I'll look up a company I spoke with last year and send you their info. On Sun, May 15, 2016, 9:07 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott,??????? There's these guys :?http://artisanind.com/certified-pressure-vessels/?gclid=Cj0KEQjwvOC5BRCb_8yNmZ_ls9IBEiQACTz8vn9coGX1TmOBaxs1kNrcbcz50OxluGRtkSw9MY-Wm9oaAi1V8P8HAQ?It seems like there was a link on the psubs web site to an outfit who offered FEA engineering,? it was a link to another part of their web site as a info link.? ?BTW, when I go on the psubs site I don't see any navigation links??? I can get to the design page only because I have it saved.???Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: psubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA Date: Sun, 15 May 2016 19:50:54 -0500 Is there anyone who can do a FEA for Pisces VI? If not does anyone know anyone who can? Also, what is the cost and what is needed to do one?Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 16 11:18:25 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 May 2016 08:18:25 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4aa16093-f671-4ed3-bfcc-e2b714acc901@email.android.com> Scott, the company I work for (C-FER Technologies) can do this for you. We have a great deal of FEA capacity and experience with such pressure hulls, having performed both FEA and physical testing on submarine hulls for ISE and others in the past. With the downturn in oil and gas, it is an opportune time to get a good price from such a professional outfit, and if you like, I can be personally involved on your project. If you have some idea of your budget constraints and necessary scope of work, contact me off list and we can set up a meeting. Sean On May 15, 2016 5:50:54 PM PDT, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Is there anyone who can do a FEA for Pisces VI? If not does anyone know >anyone who can? Also, what is the cost and what is needed to do >one?Thank you,Scott Waters > > >Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 16 12:42:24 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 May 2016 11:42:24 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA Message-ID: Sean, I don't know if I have your e-mail. Can you message me off list at swaters at piscessub.com?Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" Date: 05/16/2016 10:18 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA Scott, the company I work for (C-FER Technologies) can do this for you. We have a great deal of FEA capacity and experience with such pressure hulls, having performed both FEA and physical testing on submarine hulls for ISE and others in the past.? With the downturn in oil and gas, it is an opportune time to get a good price from such a professional outfit, and if you like, I can be personally involved on your project. If you have some idea of your budget constraints and necessary scope of work, contact me off list and we can set up a meeting. Sean On May 15, 2016 5:50:54 PM PDT, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Is there anyone who can do a FEA for Pisces VI? If not does anyone know anyone who can? Also, what is the cost and what is needed to do one?Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 16 15:54:52 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 17 May 2016 07:54:52 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA In-Reply-To: References: <20160515210628.E77FDFDE@m0087798.ppops.net> Message-ID: <573a2559.e7fb420a.f023a.ffffd749@mx.google.com> Scott, I used George, who I found really good. He did Octopussy sub. George Laird, Ph.D., P.E. Principal Mechanical Engineer FEA at PredictiveEngineering.com www.PredictiveEngineering.com Land Line: 503.206.5571 Cell: 503.201.2688 FAX: 888.316.3603 Kind regards, Hugh Fulton From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 16 May 2016 6:16 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA Hi Scott, I started with a company here in california. But I don't think they would be the right fit for the PVI. I'll look up a company I spoke with last year and send you their info. On Sun, May 15, 2016, 9:07 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, There's these guys : http://artisanind.com/certified-pressure-vessels/?gclid=Cj0KEQjwvOC5BRCb_8yNmZ_ls9IBEiQACTz8vn9coGX1TmOBaxs1kNrcbcz50OxluGRtkSw9MY-Wm9oaAi1V8P8HAQ It seems like there was a link on the psubs web site to an outfit who offered FEA engineering, it was a link to another part of their web site as a info link. BTW, when I go on the psubs site I don't see any navigation links? I can get to the design page only because I have it saved. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: psubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA Date: Sun, 15 May 2016 19:50:54 -0500 Is there anyone who can do a FEA for Pisces VI? If not does anyone know anyone who can? Also, what is the cost and what is needed to do one? Thank you, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 253368 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 16 16:12:25 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 May 2016 20:12:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA In-Reply-To: <573a2559.e7fb420a.f023a.ffffd749@mx.google.com> References: <20160515210628.E77FDFDE@m0087798.ppops.net> <573a2559.e7fb420a.f023a.ffffd749@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1848240581.3466793.1463429545866.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Scott,this is a statement from Hugh's link.Over the years, Predictive Engineering has worked on three submarine projects from a deep-diving luxury submarine to the world?s deepest diving bathysphere (please see Fracture Mechanics of Glass.pdf) to this two-person compact model.? In all three analyses, the analyses work tied to hand calculations for the American Bureau of Shipping (ABS) and for ASME calculations for hydrostatic pressure. The critical load analysis was for buckling since the hand calculations do not provide the level of detail that can provide the assurances that only FEA can provide.? Also features Hugh's sub.Alan From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2016 7:54 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA #yiv0941746274 #yiv0941746274 -- _filtered #yiv0941746274 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0941746274 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv0941746274 #yiv0941746274 p.yiv0941746274MsoNormal, #yiv0941746274 li.yiv0941746274MsoNormal, #yiv0941746274 div.yiv0941746274MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv0941746274 a:link, #yiv0941746274 span.yiv0941746274MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0941746274 a:visited, #yiv0941746274 span.yiv0941746274MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0941746274 p {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv0941746274 p.yiv0941746274MsoAcetate, #yiv0941746274 li.yiv0941746274MsoAcetate, #yiv0941746274 div.yiv0941746274MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv0941746274 span.yiv0941746274EmailStyle18 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv0941746274 span.yiv0941746274BalloonTextChar {}#yiv0941746274 .yiv0941746274MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv0941746274 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv0941746274 div.yiv0941746274WordSection1 {}#yiv0941746274 Scott,I used George, who I found really good.He did Octopussy sub. ?George Laird, Ph.D., P.E.Principal Mechanical EngineerFEA at PredictiveEngineering.comhttp://www.predictiveengineering.com/ ?Land Line: 503.206.5571Cell: 503.201.2688FAX: 888.316.3603 ? ?Kind regards, ?Hugh Fulton ? ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 16 May 2016 6:16 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA ?Hi Scott, I started with a company here in california. But I don't think they would be the right fit for the PVI. I'll look up a company I spoke with last year and send you their info. ?On Sun, May 15, 2016, 9:07 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott,??????? There's these guys :?http://artisanind.com/certified-pressure-vessels/?gclid=Cj0KEQjwvOC5BRCb_8yNmZ_ls9IBEiQACTz8vn9coGX1TmOBaxs1kNrcbcz50OxluGRtkSw9MY-Wm9oaAi1V8P8HAQ?It seems like there was a link on the psubs web site to an outfit who offered FEA engineering,? it was a link to another part of their web site as a info link.? ?BTW, when I go on the psubs site I don't see any navigation links??? I can get to the design page only because I have it saved.???Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: psubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA Date: Sun, 15 May 2016 19:50:54 -0500Is there anyone who can do a FEA for Pisces VI? If not does anyone know anyone who can? Also, what is the cost and what is needed to do one?Thank you,Scott Waters ? ? ?Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 16 16:56:36 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 17 May 2016 08:56:36 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA In-Reply-To: <4aa16093-f671-4ed3-bfcc-e2b714acc901@email.android.com> References: <4aa16093-f671-4ed3-bfcc-e2b714acc901@email.android.com> Message-ID: <573a33ca.1313620a.26cc3.ffffe815@mx.google.com> Sean, Sorry, hadn?t got to your email when I sent Predictives lead. I had a lot of communication with James McFarlane who has taken over from his Dad with ISE. He is one interesting guy. Had a lot to do with UN control of the ocean floor worldwide. It would be good to have him talk at the P-subs convention. Jon, are you listening?? Regards, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 17 May 2016 3:18 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA Scott, the company I work for (C-FER Technologies) can do this for you. We have a great deal of FEA capacity and experience with such pressure hulls, having performed both FEA and physical testing on submarine hulls for ISE and others in the past. With the downturn in oil and gas, it is an opportune time to get a good price from such a professional outfit, and if you like, I can be personally involved on your project. If you have some idea of your budget constraints and necessary scope of work, contact me off list and we can set up a meeting. Sean On May 15, 2016 5:50:54 PM PDT, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Is there anyone who can do a FEA for Pisces VI? If not does anyone know anyone who can? Also, what is the cost and what is needed to do one? Thank you, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _____ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 16 17:16:36 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 May 2016 14:16:36 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA In-Reply-To: <573a33ca.1313620a.26cc3.ffffe815@mx.google.com> References: <4aa16093-f671-4ed3-bfcc-e2b714acc901@email.android.com> <573a33ca.1313620a.26cc3.ffffe815@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I used to work under Jim MacFarlane Sr. at ISE in the late 90s. Good company culture, not the most stable work / cash flow though. Sean On May 16, 2016 1:56:36 PM PDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Sean, > >Sorry, hadn?t got to your email when I sent Predictives lead. > >I had a lot of communication with James McFarlane who has taken over >from his Dad with ISE. > >He is one interesting guy. Had a lot to do with UN control of the >ocean floor worldwide. > > > >It would be good to have him talk at the P-subs convention. Jon, are >you listening?? > >Regards, Hugh > > > >From: Personal_Submersibles >[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Sean T. >Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles >Sent: Tuesday, 17 May 2016 3:18 a.m. >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA > > > >Scott, the company I work for (C-FER Technologies) can do this for you. >We have a great deal of FEA capacity and experience with such pressure >hulls, having performed both FEA and physical testing on submarine >hulls for ISE and others in the past. With the downturn in oil and >gas, it is an opportune time to get a good price from such a >professional outfit, and if you like, I can be personally involved on >your project. > >If you have some idea of your budget constraints and necessary scope of >work, contact me off list and we can set up a meeting. > >Sean > > > >On May 15, 2016 5:50:54 PM PDT, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >Is there anyone who can do a FEA for Pisces VI? If not does anyone know >anyone who can? Also, what is the cost and what is needed to do one? > >Thank you, > >Scott Waters > > > > > > > >Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > _____ > > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 17 01:18:05 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 17 May 2016 00:18:05 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA Message-ID: Thanks for all the help guys!Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" Date: 05/16/2016 4:16 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA I used to work under Jim MacFarlane Sr. at ISE in the late 90s.? Good company culture, not the most stable work / cash flow though. Sean On May 16, 2016 1:56:36 PM PDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean,Sorry, hadn?t got to your email when I sent Predictives lead.I had a lot of communication with James McFarlane who has taken over from his Dad with ISE.He is one interesting guy.? Had a lot to do with UN control of the ocean floor worldwide.?It would be good to have him talk at the P-subs convention.? Jon, are you listening??Regards,? Hugh?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 17 May 2016 3:18 a.m.! To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FEA?Scott, the company I work for (C-FER Technologies) can do this for you. We have a great deal of FEA capacity and experience with such pressure hulls, having performed both FEA and physical testing on submarine hulls for ISE and others in the past.? With the downturn in oil and gas, it is an opportune time to get a good price from such a professional outfit, and if you like, I can be personally involved on your project.If you have some idea of your budget constraints and necessary scope of work, contact me off list and we can set up a meeting.Sean?On May 15, 2016 5:50:54 PM PDT, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Is there anyone who can do a FEA for Pisces VI? If not does anyone know anyone who can? Also, what is the cost and what is needed to do one?Thank you,Scott Waters???Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 17 08:30:01 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 17 May 2016 12:30:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pisces VI References: <156821571.3381152.1463488201665.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <156821571.3381152.1463488201665.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Scott,How did the tear down go? ?did you have any bolts break off? ?did you find any artifacts of interest?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 17 08:53:37 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 17 May 2016 07:53:37 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pisces VI Message-ID: Hank,Went very well. Found about 15 thruster motors for Pisces and also found a extra set of viewports. We are now entering the design phase and ABS recert planningThanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 05/17/2016 7:30 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pisces VI Hi Scott,How did the tear down go? ?did you have any bolts break off? ?did you find any artifacts of interest?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 17 18:14:47 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 17 May 2016 22:14:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pisces VI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2135346133.3818971.1463523287701.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Scott,Wow that is nice to hear, it would be nice to see some pics of those motors especially apart. ?I wonder if you can use the ports?Hank On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 6:54 AM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,Went very well. Found about 15 thruster motors for Pisces and also found a extra set of viewports. We are now entering the design phase and ABS recert planningThanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 05/17/2016 7:30 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pisces VI Hi Scott,How did the tear down go? ?did you have any bolts break off? ?did you find any artifacts of interest?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 17 19:51:33 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 17 May 2016 18:51:33 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pisces VI Message-ID: <7dgrlh5j7d8344pksp95ogf1.1463529093436@email.android.com> We got alot of planning to do before we do any more wrenching. We are going to Hawaii to see Pisces 4 and 5 in June. Should be funThanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 05/17/2016 5:14 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pisces VI Scott,Wow that is nice to hear, it would be nice to see some pics of those motors especially apart. ?I wonder if you can use the ports?Hank ??? On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 6:54 AM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank,Went very well. Found about 15 thruster motors for Pisces and also found a extra set of viewports. We are now entering the design phase and ABS recert planningThanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 05/17/2016 7:30 AM (GMT-06:00) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 18 13:42:52 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 18 May 2016 12:42:52 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?Kelly_controllers?= In-Reply-To: <663450817.4904053.1461961822279.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <663450817.4904053.1461961822279.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <663450817.4904053.1461961822279.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20160518174252.31342.qmail@server268.com> I am looking for a motor controller for my two side thrusters. I currently have it on a off/on switch and it blows fuses from the spike. I have a variable controller for my rear thruster that works well. The motors are 14.5 amp each and are 36 volt. Thank you, Scott Waters > -------Original Message------- > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > Sent: Apr 29 '16 15:34 > > Alec, > one thing that wasn't obvious with my KBS mini controller purchase > was that if you want to run forward / reverse off one axis of a > joystick, > you have to specify this option. It costs you an extra $26- & is a > software change they make. They call this an electric boat function. > Alan From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 18 14:41:35 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 18 May 2016 18:41:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers In-Reply-To: <20160518174252.31342.qmail@server268.com> References: <663450817.4904053.1461961822279.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <663450817.4904053.1461961822279.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <20160518174252.31342.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: <1217483418.5280895.1463596895733.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Scott, I would say something like this item. http://kellycontroller.com/kds36100e100a24v-36v-mini-brushed-controller-p-270.htmlKelly will give you advice on choosing a suitable controller & they normally respond thesame day.?They say the controller should be 2-3 x the power of the motor.?? When I bought my Brushless motor controller I found I couldn't reverse off a joy stick.They had a joystick port but just for forward control. I was required to pay more to get the same unit programmed to do this. It is a bit ambiguous how they word this option in the manual.?? I saw those Pisces subs on Oahu a couple of years back as has David C. They were having funding problems at the time. There are normally turtles in the water by the wharf & a hole off to the left that has some resident reef sharks.?The guys will point it out.Cheers Alan From: via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 5:42 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers I am looking for a motor controller for my two side thrusters. I currently have it on a off/on switch and it blows fuses from the spike. I have a variable controller for my rear thruster that works well. The motors are 14.5 amp each and are 36 volt. Thank you, Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers >? Sent: Apr 29 '16 15:34 >? >? Alec, >? one thing that wasn't obvious with my KBS mini controller purchase >? was that if you want to run forward / reverse off one axis of a >? joystick, >? you have to specify this option. It costs you an extra $26- & is a >? software change they make. They call this an electric boat function. >? Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 18 16:29:48 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 18 May 2016 15:29:48 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?Kelly_controllers?= In-Reply-To: <1217483418.5280895.1463596895733.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <663450817.4904053.1461961822279.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <663450817.4904053.1461961822279.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <20160518174252.31342.qmail@server268.com> <1217483418.5280895.1463596895733.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20160518202948.32428.qmail@server268.com> Thanks Alan -Scott Waters > -------Original Message------- > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > Sent: May 18 '16 13:45 > > Scott, > I would say something like this item. > http://kellycontroller.com/kds36100e100a24v-36v-mini-brushed-controller-p-270.html > Kelly will give you advice on choosing a suitable controller & they > normally respond the > same day. They say the controller should be 2-3 x the power of the > motor. > When I bought my Brushless motor controller I found I couldn't > reverse off a joy stick. > They had a joystick port but just for forward control. I was required > to pay more to get the same > unit programmed to do this. It is a bit ambiguous how they word this > option in the manual. > I saw those Pisces subs on Oahu a couple of years back as has David > C. They were having > funding problems at the time. There are normally turtles in the water > by the wharf & a hole off > to the left that has some resident reef sharks. The guys will point it > out. > Cheers Alan > > ------------------------- > FROM: via Personal_Submersibles > TO: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > SENT: Thursday, May 19, 2016 5:42 AM > SUBJECT: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > I am looking for a motor controller for my two side thrusters. I > currently have it on a off/on switch and it blows fuses from the > spike. I have a variable controller for my rear thruster that works > well. The motors are 14.5 amp each and are 36 volt. > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > Sent: Apr 29 '16 15:34 > > > > > Alec, > > one thing that wasn't obvious with my KBS mini controller purchase > > was that if you want to run forward / reverse off one axis of a > > joystick, > > you have to specify this option. It costs you an extra $26- & is a > > software change they make. They call this an electric boat function. > > Alan > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 18 16:53:37 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 18 May 2016 20:53:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers In-Reply-To: <20160518202948.32428.qmail@server268.com> References: <663450817.4904053.1461961822279.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <663450817.4904053.1461961822279.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <20160518174252.31342.qmail@server268.com> <1217483418.5280895.1463596895733.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <20160518202948.32428.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: <1533326225.4990160.1463604817272.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Scott,are they Minn kota motors?Alan From: via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers Thanks Alan -Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers >? Sent: May 18 '16 13:45 >? >? Scott, >? I would say something like this item. >? http://kellycontroller.com/kds36100e100a24v-36v-mini-brushed-controller-p-270.html >? Kelly will give you advice on choosing a suitable controller & they >? normally respond the >? same day. They say the controller should be 2-3 x the power of the >? motor. >? When I bought my Brushless motor controller I found I couldn't >? reverse off a joy stick. >? They had a joystick port but just for forward control. I was required >? to pay more to get the same >? unit programmed to do this. It is a bit ambiguous how they word this >? option in the manual. >? I saw those Pisces subs on Oahu a couple of years back as has David >? C. They were having >? funding problems at the time. There are normally turtles in the water >? by the wharf & a hole off >? to the left that has some resident reef sharks. The guys will point it >? out. >? Cheers Alan >? >? ------------------------- >? FROM: via Personal_Submersibles >? TO: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? >? SENT: Thursday, May 19, 2016 5:42 AM >? SUBJECT: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers >? >? I am looking for a motor controller for my two side thrusters. I >? currently have it on a off/on switch and it blows fuses from the >? spike. I have a variable controller for my rear thruster that works >? well. The motors are 14.5 amp each and are 36 volt. >? >? Thank you, >? Scott Waters >? >? > -------Original Message------- >? > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >? >? > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? >? > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers >? > Sent: Apr 29 '16 15:34 >? >? > >? > Alec, >? > one thing that wasn't obvious with my KBS mini controller purchase >? > was that if you want to run forward / reverse off one axis of a >? > joystick, >? > you have to specify this option. It costs you an extra $26- & is a >? > software change they make. They call this an electric boat function. >? > Alan >? _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 18 17:08:49 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 18 May 2016 16:08:49 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers Message-ID: No, they are Kitteredge originalsThanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Date: 05/18/2016 3:53 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers Scott,are they Minn kota motors?Alan From: via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers Thanks Alan -Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers >? Sent: May 18 '16 13:45 >? >? Scott, >? I would say something like this item. >? http://kellycontroller.com/kds36100e100a24v-36v-mini-brushed-controller-p-270.html >? Kelly will give you advice on choosing a suitable controller & they >? normally respond the >? same day. They say the controller should be 2-3 x the power of the >? motor. >? When I bought my Brushless motor controller I found I couldn't >? reverse off a joy stick. >? They had a joystick port but just for forward control. I was required >? to pay more to get the same >? unit programmed to do this. It is a bit ambiguous how they word this >? option in the manual. >? I saw those Pisces subs on Oahu a couple of years back as has David >? C. They were having >? funding problems at the time. There are normally turtles in the water >? by the wharf & a hole off >? to the left that has some resident reef sharks. The guys will point it >? out. >? Cheers Alan >? >? ------------------------- >? FROM: via Personal_Submersibles >? TO: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? >? SENT: Thursday, May 19, 2016 5:42 AM >? SUBJECT: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers >? >? I am looking for a motor controller for my two side thrusters. I >? currently have it on a off/on switch and it blows fuses from the >? spike. I have a variable controller for my rear thruster that works >? well. The motors are 14.5 amp each and are 36 volt. >? >? Thank you, >? Scott Waters >? >? > -------Original Message------- >? > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >? >? > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? >? > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers >? > Sent: Apr 29 '16 15:34 >? >? > >? > Alec, >? > one thing that wasn't obvious with my KBS mini controller purchase >? > was that if you want to run forward / reverse off one axis of a >? > joystick, >? > you have to specify this option. It costs you an extra $26- & is a >? > software change they make. They call this an electric boat function. >? > Alan >? _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 18 18:31:37 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 18 May 2016 22:31:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <659080306.4911794.1463610697900.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Scott,thinking more about it. That Kelly controller requires a separate reverse contactor & reverse switch.(they sell them)Also you need to buy their connectors to connect to the computer to program it. The wiring diagramis for a key start, which is a solenoid switch, so you have to work out how to wire it differently ifyou don't want a key start.?? You sound like you are within the parameters of a MK 101 motor controller. I am not familiarwith it but Cliff & Alec are. I believe you can just plug in the right joystick with spring to centre& get forward & backward on that same axis.?The MK?sounds like it would be a lot simpler to set up.Alan From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers No, they are Kitteredge originalsThanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Date: 05/18/2016 3:53 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers Scott,are they Minn kota motors?Alan From: via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers Thanks Alan -Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers >? Sent: May 18 '16 13:45 >? >? Scott, >? I would say something like this item. >? http://kellycontroller.com/kds36100e100a24v-36v-mini-brushed-controller-p-270.html >? Kelly will give you advice on choosing a suitable controller & they >? normally respond the >? same day. They say the controller should be 2-3 x the power of the >? motor. >? When I bought my Brushless motor controller I found I couldn't >? reverse off a joy stick. >? They had a joystick port but just for forward control. I was required >? to pay more to get the same >? unit programmed to do this. It is a bit ambiguous how they word this >? option in the manual. >? I saw those Pisces subs on Oahu a couple of years back as has David >? C. They were having >? funding problems at the time. There are normally turtles in the water >? by the wharf & a hole off >? to the left that has some resident reef sharks. The guys will point it >? out. >? Cheers Alan >? >? ------------------------- >? FROM: via Personal_Submersibles >? TO: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? >? SENT: Thursday, May 19, 2016 5:42 AM >? SUBJECT: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers >? >? I am looking for a motor controller for my two side thrusters. I >? currently have it on a off/on switch and it blows fuses from the >? spike. I have a variable controller for my rear thruster that works >? well. The motors are 14.5 amp each and are 36 volt. >? >? Thank you, >? Scott Waters >? >? > -------Original Message------- >? > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >? >? > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? >? > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers >? > Sent: Apr 29 '16 15:34 >? >? > >? > Alec, >? > one thing that wasn't obvious with my KBS mini controller purchase >? > was that if you want to run forward / reverse off one axis of a >? > joystick, >? > you have to specify this option. It costs you an extra $26- & is a >? > software change they make. They call this an electric boat function. >? > Alan >? _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 18 21:33:02 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 18 May 2016 21:33:02 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers In-Reply-To: <659080306.4911794.1463610697900.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <659080306.4911794.1463610697900.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Scott are you sure those motors only pull 15 amps? It seems very little for a stonking big piece of hardware like that, but maybe the motor inside the can is smaller that one would expect. Consider the 101's also run at 36 volts but pull three times the current. Anyway if the current draw is correct you would have no problem running them off the standard MK controller. You could even run both of them off a single controller, although you would need some switches or relays to reverse them independently. But the MK controllers are cheap, so maybe just provide each thruster its own speed control. Best, Alec On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 6:31 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Scott, > thinking more about it. That Kelly controller requires a separate reverse > contactor & reverse switch. > (they sell them) > Also you need to buy their connectors to connect to the computer to > program it. The wiring diagram > is for a key start, which is a solenoid switch, so you have to work out > how to wire it differently if > you don't want a key start. > You sound like you are within the parameters of a MK 101 motor > controller. I am not familiar > with it but Cliff & Alec are. I believe you can just plug in the right > joystick with spring to centre > & get forward & backward on that same axis. The MK sounds like it would be > a lot simpler to set up. > Alan > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 19, 2016 9:08 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > No, they are Kitteredge originals > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Date: 05/18/2016 3:53 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > Scott, > are they Minn kota motors? > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* via Personal_Submersibles > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 19, 2016 8:29 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > Thanks Alan > > -Scott Waters > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > Sent: May 18 '16 13:45 > > > > Scott, > > I would say something like this item. > > > http://kellycontroller.com/kds36100e100a24v-36v-mini-brushed-controller-p-270.html > > Kelly will give you advice on choosing a suitable controller & they > > normally respond the > > same day. They say the controller should be 2-3 x the power of the > > motor. > > When I bought my Brushless motor controller I found I couldn't > > reverse off a joy stick. > > They had a joystick port but just for forward control. I was required > > to pay more to get the same > > unit programmed to do this. It is a bit ambiguous how they word this > > option in the manual. > > I saw those Pisces subs on Oahu a couple of years back as has David > > C. They were having > > funding problems at the time. There are normally turtles in the water > > by the wharf & a hole off > > to the left that has some resident reef sharks. The guys will point it > > out. > > Cheers Alan > > > > ------------------------- > > FROM: via Personal_Submersibles > > TO: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > > SENT: Thursday, May 19, 2016 5:42 AM > > SUBJECT: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > > > > I am looking for a motor controller for my two side thrusters. I > > currently have it on a off/on switch and it blows fuses from the > > spike. I have a variable controller for my rear thruster that works > > well. The motors are 14.5 amp each and are 36 volt. > > > > Thank you, > > Scott Waters > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > > > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > > Sent: Apr 29 '16 15:34 > > > > > > > > Alec, > > > one thing that wasn't obvious with my KBS mini controller purchase > > > was that if you want to run forward / reverse off one axis of a > > > joystick, > > > you have to specify this option. It costs you an extra $26- & is a > > > software change they make. They call this an electric boat function. > > > Alan > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 19 05:57:21 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 11:57:21 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests Message-ID: Hello psubbers, Last week end we drove to the same lake as the first to do some more test dives for our little human powered sub. Quite another event rich sequence worth sharing: -The preparation session went ok. We just had another tv crew, which is fine but is slowed us down, as they often want you to repeat some moves even when they say they just want to film you do your things. Interviews themselves are really short. -When driving to the harbour?s launch slope on a bumpy path, we heard a noise a km before arriving. We found out that our 100kg emergency drop weight had fallen from the sub. Hopefully it only fell 15cm onto the central beam of the trailer, from where it could not go anywhere? The vibrations had moved the release pins, and it also moved apart by a few mm the lower legs of our nose frame, which normally closely bound each side of the drop weight and where the release pins go. With a few hands we pushed the weight back up in place. Lesson learned: use longer pins, retighten the frame and add a thread bar to keep the legs of lower frame close enough together. Also, we should have the drop weight rest on 3 support points (2 pins, 1 ledge), not 4 (2pins, 2 ledges) which will never be fully stable. -We then launched. It went smoothly as we had done it before and knew exactly where to bring the trailer and its rope extension to have the sub float. We then deflated the ballasts to check the trim inside the harbour. This time it was perfect, having captured last time?s 25kg discrepancy in our reference excel file and recomputed the lead weight we needed this time given all the food and stuff we had taken. -then the boat towed us out, until we reached a 4m water depth to pedal a bit. This went ok. We were just intrigued by a tiny high frequency vibration coming from the prop shaft, which was there regardless of rotating speed, but only when pedaling in the forward direction. It was not there during the first dives, and it disappeared the next day. We are wondering whether it came from the water lubricated bearing , or the pressure seal assembly. The length of the prop shaft of over 2m makes it probably prone to resonance. -This time we had better navigation instruments, a compass mounted right outside the dome in front of us, on the aluminium dome seat, with quite lower magnetic deviation due to the hull than we feared. Also a diver depth gauge was there, very useful. We were eager to test our imagenex sonar/sounder combo, but could not get it to work for that dive. Will be next time? -The sub turned out quite stable, keeping straight when we stop pedaling, but we noticed that having a buoy attached at the front of the sub with a short rope to remain clear of the propeller gave a bit of instability on top of extra drag. Depth control worked well with our 80kg tray on rollers beneath batteries and pilot seat, although we were not aiming for very large swings of depth. We just need to rework a bit the handle so it is more convenient to use, especially when the sub is at large angles. -The oxygen consumption turned out lower than we expected. Michael and myself are quite lightweights I should say. We were running at 0.75L/mn for 2 people at rest, it actually went down to 0.5L/mn during the night, with one sleeping. It also shooted up to 2L/mn after I went out for a swim around the sub in cold water to remove our buoy rope from the prop the next day. So feeling warm is really good to lower oxy consumption, and a down jacket, socks, hat and gloves may be worth kgs of sodalime in emergency mode! When pedaling it ranged between 1.25 to 2L/mn, not as high as anticipated, but the pedaling resistance and heart rate remained quite moderate. This brings our ?theoretical? life support autonomy to a whopping 16 days in pedaling mode, and 37 days in rest mode. then we went for a tow to a nice diving spot on the other shore of the lake where we would spend the night and find deeper water for the next days dives. The tow was quite choppy, and we occasionally dove a 0.5 to 1 m with dynamic effects, although since the first dives we moved the towing point below the nose tip which improved considerably the behavior under tow. At some point we had to slow down the tow as we noticed that the dome had slightly moved on its seat, under a combination of : effect of slight internal overpressure caused by temperature increase due to sun light in the dome and slight CO2 build up, wave action, occasional UW dips, and primarily because the force on the dome retainer strap was not high enough. When we arrived at the other shore, we moored, inflated ballasts and delicately removed the dome to check the oring and force on retainer strap. We noticed the oring had a pinch point towards the dome pressure seat, so we cleaned and re-placed it in a way to keep low pressure tightness. We also added 1mm spacer between the dome and retainer strap to increase the strap down force, and ensure a large enough oring compression so the dome rests on its seat with no gap. the general theory says that a gap should not be an issue as when you dive, the force closing the gap should be many times higher than the force pushing the oring in. But here a combination of waves, overpressure etc may have moved a bit the oring in at some point. We also removed the prop to see if some debris could have caused the subtle vibrations, but could not find any thing. -After that we had dinner and landed the sub to spend the night near the shore in less than 2m water depth. Deployed our anchor also to stay put. It worked well. Inside the sub we deployed our bunker bed and tested switching positions between Michael and I. We slept one after the other, so we could check on O2 and CO2 levels. Comfort was not bad, because the bunker bed is really nice, but space is really small inside. We can grab all the controls and isolation valves in case of emergency, but you can t help but feel like trapped inside... During the night we used the red lighting as in real subs, to feel like in the submarine movies, it was really cool! -Next day, after a beautiful sun rise seen from underwater, we went for a dive to 10m water depth where we could have space above and below us to really operate the water ballast and trim weight tray on rollers. Thanks to our depth gauge, water circuitry and hand pump we could get in trim within less than 1 kilo, and feel the inertia of piloting moves. It was really good feeling piloting that thing in three dimensions. After the dive we surfaced with our ballast and pedaled we got the rope in our large prop, which led me go out, take a swim to cut it, and shorten the buoy rope as our dive support boat had not arrived and our dive support was on the shore. We ll probably add a duct around our prop... Then before I came back in, some fishermen in another boat came and asked us whether we were fine, they initially thought we were a boat upside down. It was funny seeing their hallucinating faces. -we then had our own support boat come over and we went on for a stretch of pedaling at 2m water depth. We could measure our speed at 1.2kt which falls in the ball park we anticipated. We may gain some without a buoy, and once our composite shells are polished, and also with a more stable steering than what we had (the short buoy rope attached to the front of the sub made it difficult to keep a stable course). On the other hand adding a duct around our large prop may decrease our speed. But a duct would also increase a bit the power we can put in at 70rpm, so we might compensate extra drag effect on speed by extra thrust. -Over the week end in the sub, we managed to log quite a few hours with our scrubbers. We reckoned we got over 200LCO2 /kg of sodasorb, which is better than the typical figure given by the manufacturer (185LCO2/Kg). The scrubber starts being less efficient indeed at around that amount but we can still manage <1% in the cabin some time after that. On top of that, we have probably extra absorption capacity from our nearly worn scrubbers as we saw it can still run with an exhaust lean in CO2 in parallel or series to our second fresher scrubber. But it is difficult to measure how much we can extend the absorption capacity with this technique. regards, Antoine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 19 07:12:24 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 11:12:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <205241989.5773340.1463656344575.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Excellent report, enjoyed reading it.Do you have an anticipated date to cross the channel?Alan From: Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 9:57 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests Hello psubbers, Last week end wedrove to the same lake as the first to do some more test dives for our littlehuman powered sub. Quite another event rich sequence worth sharing: -The preparation session went ok. We just had another tv crew, which is fine but is?slowed us down, as they often want?you to repeat some moves even when they say they just want to film you do your things. Interviews themselves are really short. -When driving tothe harbour?s launch slope on a bumpy path, we heard a noise a km beforearriving. We found out that our 100kg emergency drop weight had fallen from thesub. Hopefully it only fell 15cm onto the central beam of the trailer, fromwhere it could not go anywhere? The vibrations had moved the release pins, andit also moved apart by a few mm the lower legs of our nose frame, whichnormally closely bound each side of the drop weight and where the release pinsgo. With a few hands we pushed the weight back up in place. Lesson learned: uselonger pins, retighten the frame and add a thread bar to keep the legs of lowerframe close enough together. Also, we should have the drop weight rest on 3 supportpoints (2 pins, 1 ledge), not 4 (2pins, 2 ledges) which will never be fullystable.?-We thenlaunched. It went smoothly as we had done it before and knew exactly where tobring the trailer and its rope extension to have the sub float. We then deflatedthe ballasts to check the trim inside the harbour. This time it was perfect,having captured last time?s 25kg discrepancy in?our reference excel file andrecomputed the lead weight we needed this time given all the food and stuff wehad taken.?-then the boattowed us out, until we reached a 4m water depth to pedal a bit. This went ok.We were just intrigued by a tiny high frequency vibration coming from the propshaft, which was there regardless of rotating speed, but only when pedaling in?the forwarddirection. It was not there during the first dives, and it disappeared the nextday. We are wondering whether it came from the water lubricated bearing , or thepressure seal assembly. The length of the prop shaft of over 2m makes itprobably prone to resonance.?-This time wehad better navigation instruments, a compass mounted right outside the dome infront of us, on the aluminium dome seat, with quite lower magnetic deviationdue to the hull than we feared. Also a diver depth gauge was there, veryuseful. We were eager to test our imagenex sonar/sounder combo, but could notget it to work for that dive. Will be next time??-The sub turnedout quite stable, keeping straight when we stop pedaling, but we noticed that havinga buoy attached at the front of the sub with a short rope to remain clear ofthe propeller gave a bit of instability on top of extra drag. Depth controlworked well with our 80kg tray on rollers beneath batteries and pilot seat,although we were not aiming for very large swings of depth. We just need torework a bit the handle so it is more convenient to use, especially when thesub is at large angles. ?-The oxygenconsumption turned out lower than we expected. Michael and myself are quitelightweights I should say. We were running at 0.75L/mn for 2 people at rest, itactually went down to 0.5L/mn during the night, with one sleeping. It alsoshooted up to 2L/mn after I went out for a swim around the sub in cold water toremove our buoy rope from the prop the next day. So feeling warm is really goodto lower oxy consumption, and a down jacket, socks, hat and gloves may be worthkgs of sodalime in emergency mode! When pedaling it ranged between 1.25 to2L/mn, not as high as anticipated, but the pedaling resistance and heart rate remainedquite moderate. This brings our ?theoretical? life support autonomy to awhopping 16 days in pedaling mode, and 37 days in rest mode.?then we went for a tow to anice diving spot on the other shore of the lake where we would spend the nightand find deeper water for the next days dives. The tow was quite choppy, and weoccasionally dove a 0.5 to 1 m with dynamic effects, although since the firstdives we moved the towing point below the nose tip which improved considerablythe behavior under tow. At some point we had to slow down the tow as we noticedthat the dome had slightly moved on its seat, under a combination of : effectof slight internal overpressure caused by temperature increase due to sun lightin the dome and slight CO2 build up, wave action, occasional UW dips, and primarilybecause the force on the dome retainer strap was not high enough. When we arrivedat the other shore, we moored, inflated ballasts and delicately removed thedome to check the oring and force on retainer strap. We noticed the oring had apinch point towards the dome pressure seat, so we cleaned and re-placed it in away to keep low pressure tightness. We also added 1mm spacer between the domeand retainer strap to increase the strap down force, and ensure a large enoughoring compression so the dome rests on its seat with no gap.?the general?theory says that a gapshould not be an issue as when you dive, the force closing the gap should be many times higherthan the force pushing the oring in. But here a combination of waves,overpressure etc may have moved a bit the oring in at some point.We also removedthe prop to see if some debris could have caused the subtle vibrations, butcould not find any thing. ?-After that wehad dinner and landed the sub to spend the night near the shore in less than 2mwater depth. Deployed our anchor also to stay put. It worked well. Inside thesub we deployed our bunker bed and tested switching positions between Michaeland I. We slept one after the other, so we could check on O2 and CO2 levels. Comfort was not bad,?because the bunker bed is really?nice,?but space is really small inside. We can grab all the controls and isolation valves in case of emergency, but you can t help but feel like trapped inside... During the night we used the red lighting as in real subs, to feel like in the submarine movies, it was really cool!?-Next day, aftera beautiful sun rise seen from underwater, we went for a dive to 10m waterdepth where we could have space above and below us to really operate the waterballast and trim weight tray on rollers. Thanks to our depth gauge, watercircuitry and hand pump we could get in trim within less than 1 kilo, and feel the inertia of piloting moves. It wasreally good feeling piloting that thing in three dimensions. After the dive we surfacedwith our ballast and pedaled we got the rope in our large prop, which led me goout, take a swim to cut it, and shorten the buoy rope as our dive support boathad not arrived and our dive support was on the shore. We ll probably add a duct around our prop... Then before Icame back in, some fishermen in another boat came and asked us whether we werefine, they initially thought we were a boat upside down. It was funny seeingtheir hallucinating faces. ???-wethen had our own support boat come over and we went on for a stretch of pedalingat 2m water depth. We could measure our speed at 1.2kt which falls in the ballpark we anticipated. We may gain some without a buoy, and once our compositeshells are polished, and also with a more stable steering than what we had (theshort buoy rope attached to the front of the sub made it difficult to keep astable course). On the other hand adding a duct around our large prop maydecrease our speed. But a duct would also increase a bit the power we can putin at 70rpm, so we might compensate extra drag effect on speed by extra thrust. -Over the week end in the sub, we managed to log quite a few hours with our scrubbers. We reckoned we got?over 200LCO2 /kg of sodasorb, which is better than the typical figure given by the manufacturer (185LCO2/Kg). The scrubber starts being less efficient indeed at around that amount but we can still manage <1% in the cabin some time after that. On top of that, we have probably extra absorption capacity from our nearly worn scrubbers as we saw it can still run?with an exhaust lean in CO2 in parallel or series to our second fresher scrubber. But it is difficult to measure how much we can extend the absorption capacity with this technique. regards,Antoine _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 19 07:21:57 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 13:21:57 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests In-Reply-To: <205241989.5773340.1463656344575.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <205241989.5773340.1463656344575.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes Alan, we will do that between 5 and 12 of August regards, Antoine On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Excellent report, enjoyed reading it. > Do you have an anticipated date to cross the channel? > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 19, 2016 9:57 PM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests > > Hello psubbers, > > Last week end we drove to the same lake as the first to do some more test > dives for our little human powered sub. Quite another event rich sequence > worth sharing: > > -The preparation session went ok. We just had another tv crew, which is > fine but is slowed us down, as they often want you to repeat some moves > even when they say they just want to film you do your things. Interviews > themselves are really short. > > -When driving to the harbour?s launch slope on a bumpy path, we heard a > noise a km before arriving. We found out that our 100kg emergency drop > weight had fallen from the sub. Hopefully it only fell 15cm onto the > central beam of the trailer, from where it could not go anywhere? The > vibrations had moved the release pins, and it also moved apart by a few mm > the lower legs of our nose frame, which normally closely bound each side of > the drop weight and where the release pins go. With a few hands we pushed > the weight back up in place. Lesson learned: use longer pins, retighten the > frame and add a thread bar to keep the legs of lower frame close enough > together. Also, we should have the drop weight rest on 3 support points (2 > pins, 1 ledge), not 4 (2pins, 2 ledges) which will never be fully stable. > > -We then launched. It went smoothly as we had done it before and knew > exactly where to bring the trailer and its rope extension to have the sub > float. > We then deflated the ballasts to check the trim inside the harbour. This > time it was perfect, having captured last time?s 25kg discrepancy in our > reference excel file and recomputed the lead weight we needed this time > given all the food and stuff we had taken. > > -then the boat towed us out, until we reached a 4m water depth to pedal a > bit. This went ok. We were just intrigued by a tiny high frequency > vibration coming from the prop shaft, which was there regardless of > rotating speed, but only when pedaling in the forward direction. It was not > there during the first dives, and it disappeared the next day. We are > wondering whether it came from the water lubricated bearing , or the > pressure seal assembly. The length of the prop shaft of over 2m makes it > probably prone to resonance. > > -This time we had better navigation instruments, a compass mounted right > outside the dome in front of us, on the aluminium dome seat, with quite > lower magnetic deviation due to the hull than we feared. Also a diver depth > gauge was there, very useful. We were eager to test our imagenex > sonar/sounder combo, but could not get it to work for that dive. Will be > next time? > > -The sub turned out quite stable, keeping straight when we stop pedaling, > but we noticed that having a buoy attached at the front of the sub with a > short rope to remain clear of the propeller gave a bit of instability on > top of extra drag. Depth control worked well with our 80kg tray on rollers > beneath batteries and pilot seat, although we were not aiming for very > large swings of depth. We just need to rework a bit the handle so it is > more convenient to use, especially when the sub is at large angles. > > -The oxygen consumption turned out lower than we expected. Michael and > myself are quite lightweights I should say. We were running at 0.75L/mn for > 2 people at rest, it actually went down to 0.5L/mn during the night, with > one sleeping. It also shooted up to 2L/mn after I went out for a swim > around the sub in cold water to remove our buoy rope from the prop the next > day. So feeling warm is really good to lower oxy consumption, and a down > jacket, socks, hat and gloves may be worth kgs of sodalime in emergency > mode! When pedaling it ranged between 1.25 to 2L/mn, not as high as > anticipated, but the pedaling resistance and heart rate remained quite > moderate. This brings our ?theoretical? life support autonomy to a whopping > 16 days in pedaling mode, and 37 days in rest mode. > > then we went for a tow to a nice diving spot on the other shore of the > lake where we would spend the night and find deeper water for the next days > dives. The tow was quite choppy, and we occasionally dove a 0.5 to 1 m with > dynamic effects, although since the first dives we moved the towing point > below the nose tip which improved considerably the behavior under tow. At > some point we had to slow down the tow as we noticed that the dome had > slightly moved on its seat, under a combination of : effect of slight > internal overpressure caused by temperature increase due to sun light in > the dome and slight CO2 build up, wave action, occasional UW dips, and > primarily because the force on the dome retainer strap was not high enough. > When we arrived at the other shore, we moored, inflated ballasts and > delicately removed the dome to check the oring and force on retainer strap. > We noticed the oring had a pinch point towards the dome pressure seat, so > we cleaned and re-placed it in a way to keep low pressure tightness. We > also added 1mm spacer between the dome and retainer strap to increase the > strap down force, and ensure a large enough oring compression so the dome > rests on its seat with no gap. the general theory says that a gap should > not be an issue as when you dive, the force closing the gap should be many > times higher than the force pushing the oring in. But here a combination of > waves, overpressure etc may have moved a bit the oring in at some point. > We also removed the prop to see if some debris could have caused the > subtle vibrations, but could not find any thing. > > -After that we had dinner and landed the sub to spend the night near the > shore in less than 2m water depth. Deployed our anchor also to stay put. It > worked well. Inside the sub we deployed our bunker bed and tested switching > positions between Michael and I. We slept one after the other, so we could > check on O2 and CO2 levels. Comfort was not bad, because the bunker bed is > really nice, but space is really small inside. We can grab all the controls > and isolation valves in case of emergency, but you can t help but feel like > trapped inside... During the night we used the red lighting as in real > subs, to feel like in the submarine movies, it was really cool! > > -Next day, after a beautiful sun rise seen from underwater, we went for a > dive to 10m water depth where we could have space above and below us to > really operate the water ballast and trim weight tray on rollers. Thanks to > our depth gauge, water circuitry and hand pump we could get in trim within > less than 1 kilo, and feel the inertia of piloting moves. It was really > good feeling piloting that thing in three dimensions. After the dive we > surfaced with our ballast and pedaled we got the rope in our large prop, > which led me go out, take a swim to cut it, and shorten the buoy rope as > our dive support boat had not arrived and our dive support was on the > shore. We ll probably add a duct around our prop... Then before I came back > in, some fishermen in another boat came and asked us whether we were fine, > they initially thought we were a boat upside down. It was funny seeing > their hallucinating faces. > > -we then had our own support boat come over and we went on for a > stretch of pedaling at 2m water depth. We could measure our speed at 1.2kt > which falls in the ball park we anticipated. We may gain some without a > buoy, and once our composite shells are polished, and also with a more > stable steering than what we had (the short buoy rope attached to the front > of the sub made it difficult to keep a stable course). On the other hand > adding a duct around our large prop may decrease our speed. But a duct > would also increase a bit the power we can put in at 70rpm, so we might > compensate extra drag effect on speed by extra thrust. > > -Over the week end in the sub, we managed to log quite a few hours with > our scrubbers. We reckoned we got over 200LCO2 /kg of sodasorb, which is > better than the typical figure given by the manufacturer (185LCO2/Kg). The > scrubber starts being less efficient indeed at around that amount but we > can still manage <1% in the cabin some time after that. On top of that, we > have probably extra absorption capacity from our nearly worn scrubbers as > we saw it can still run with an exhaust lean in CO2 in parallel or series > to our second fresher scrubber. But it is difficult to measure how much we > can extend the absorption capacity with this technique. > > regards, > Antoine > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 19 08:53:56 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 07:53:56 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?Kelly_controllers?= In-Reply-To: References: <659080306.4911794.1463610697900.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20160519125356.29811.qmail@server268.com> Alec, I am pretty sure that is correct. The side thrusters are 14.5 amp 36V and I believe 1/3 horse and the rear thruster is 74 amp 36 volt and 3 horse. I may have to take them apart to look at the plates on them again. The problem I am having is the spike from on/off in either forward or reverse frequently pops the fuse. Is a motor controller the best way to fix this or is there a better way such as a capacitor? DC electrical motors and engineering are my two weak subjects in submarines. Thank you, Scott Waters > -------Original Message------- > From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > Sent: May 18 '16 20:35 > > Scott are you sure those motors only pull 15 amps? It seems very > little for a stonking big piece of hardware like that, but maybe the > motor inside the can is smaller that one would expect. Consider the > 101's also run at 36 volts but pull three times the current. Anyway if > the current draw is correct you would have no problem running them off > the standard MK controller. You could even run both of them off a > single controller, although you would need some switches or relays to > reverse them independently. But the MK controllers are cheap, so maybe > just provide each thruster its own speed control. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 6:31 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Scott, > > thinking more about it. That Kelly controller requires a separate > > reverse contactor & reverse switch. > > (they sell them) > > Also you need to buy their connectors to connect to the computer to > > program it. The wiring diagram > > is for a key start, which is a solenoid switch, so you have to work > > out how to wire it differently if > > you don't want a key start. > > You sound like you are within the parameters of a MK 101 motor > > controller. I am not familiar > > with it but Cliff & Alec are. I believe you can just plug in the > > right joystick with spring to centre > > & get forward & backward on that same axis. The MK sounds like it > > would be a lot simpler to set up. > > Alan > > > > ------------------------- > > FROM: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles > > > > TO: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > > SENT: Thursday, May 19, 2016 9:08 AM > > > > SUBJECT: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > > > No, they are Kitteredge originals > > Thanks, > > Scott Waters > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > > -------- Original message -------- > > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > > > > Date: 05/18/2016 3:53 PM (GMT-06:00) > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > > > Scott, > > are they Minn kota motors? > > Alan > > > > ------------------------- > > FROM: via Personal_Submersibles > > TO: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > > SENT: Thursday, May 19, 2016 8:29 AM > > SUBJECT: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > > > Thanks Alan > > > > -Scott Waters > > > >> -------Original Message------- > >> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > > > >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > >> Sent: May 18 '16 13:45 > >> > >> Scott, > >> I would say something like this item. > >> > > > http://kellycontroller.com/kds36100e100a24v-36v-mini-brushed-controller-p-270.html > >> Kelly will give you advice on choosing a suitable controller & > > they > >> normally respond the > >> same day. They say the controller should be 2-3 x the power of > > the > >> motor. > >> When I bought my Brushless motor controller I found I couldn't > >> reverse off a joy stick. > >> They had a joystick port but just for forward control. I was > > required > >> to pay more to get the same > >> unit programmed to do this. It is a bit ambiguous how they word > > this > >> option in the manual. > >> I saw those Pisces subs on Oahu a couple of years back as has > > David > >> C. They were having > >> funding problems at the time. There are normally turtles in the > > water > >> by the wharf & a hole off > >> to the left that has some resident reef sharks. The guys will > > point it > >> out. > >> Cheers Alan > >> > >> ------------------------- > >> FROM: via Personal_Submersibles > >> TO: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >> > >> SENT: Thursday, May 19, 2016 5:42 AM > >> SUBJECT: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > > >> > >> I am looking for a motor controller for my two side thrusters. I > >> currently have it on a off/on switch and it blows fuses from the > >> spike. I have a variable controller for my rear thruster that > > works > >> well. The motors are 14.5 amp each and are 36 volt. > >> > >> Thank you, > >> Scott Waters > >> > >>> -------Original Message------- > >>> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > >> > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >> > >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > >>> Sent: Apr 29 '16 15:34 > >> > >>> > >>> Alec, > >>> one thing that wasn't obvious with my KBS mini controller > > purchase > >>> was that if you want to run forward / reverse off one axis of a > >>> joystick, > >>> you have to specify this option. It costs you an extra $26- & > > is a > >>> software change they make. They call this an electric boat > > function. > >>> Alan > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 19 09:03:54 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 23:03:54 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers In-Reply-To: <20160519125356.29811.qmail@server268.com> References: <659080306.4911794.1463610697900.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <20160519125356.29811.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: Hi Scott, I'm not sure what sort of fuses you have, but there are different types, sort of split into "fast blow" and "slow blow". It's pretty literal - the slow ones take a bit longer before they burn out, and I think are designed for applications like your motor starter where there is a brief current spike at the start. Circuit breakers should also be relatively slow acting (and being resettable is nice). Might be a very easy fix if it's just a matter of replacing the fuses with ones that blow as slowly as possible. Cheers, Steve On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 10:53 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, > > I am pretty sure that is correct. The side thrusters are 14.5 amp 36V and > I believe 1/3 horse and the rear thruster is 74 amp 36 volt and 3 horse. I > may have to take them apart to look at the plates on them again. The > problem I am having is the spike from on/off in either forward or reverse > frequently pops the fuse. Is a motor controller the best way to fix this or > is there a better way such as a capacitor? DC electrical motors and > engineering are my two weak subjects in submarines. > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > Sent: May 18 '16 20:35 > > > > Scott are you sure those motors only pull 15 amps? It seems very > > little for a stonking big piece of hardware like that, but maybe the > > motor inside the can is smaller that one would expect. Consider the > > 101's also run at 36 volts but pull three times the current. Anyway if > > the current draw is correct you would have no problem running them off > > the standard MK controller. You could even run both of them off a > > single controller, although you would need some switches or relays to > > reverse them independently. But the MK controllers are cheap, so maybe > > just provide each thruster its own speed control. > > > > Best, > > > > Alec > > > > On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 6:31 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > > Scott, > > > thinking more about it. That Kelly controller requires a separate > > > reverse contactor & reverse switch. > > > (they sell them) > > > Also you need to buy their connectors to connect to the computer to > > > program it. The wiring diagram > > > is for a key start, which is a solenoid switch, so you have to work > > > out how to wire it differently if > > > you don't want a key start. > > > You sound like you are within the parameters of a MK 101 motor > > > controller. I am not familiar > > > with it but Cliff & Alec are. I believe you can just plug in the > > > right joystick with spring to centre > > > & get forward & backward on that same axis. The MK sounds like it > > > would be a lot simpler to set up. > > > Alan > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > FROM: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles > > > > > > TO: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > > > > SENT: Thursday, May 19, 2016 9:08 AM > > > > > > SUBJECT: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > > > > > No, they are Kitteredge originals > > > Thanks, > > > Scott Waters > > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > > > > -------- Original message -------- > > > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > > > > > > Date: 05/18/2016 3:53 PM (GMT-06:00) > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > > > > > Scott, > > > are they Minn kota motors? > > > Alan > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > FROM: via Personal_Submersibles > > > TO: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > > > > SENT: Thursday, May 19, 2016 8:29 AM > > > SUBJECT: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > > > > > Thanks Alan > > > > > > -Scott Waters > > > > > >> -------Original Message------- > > >> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > > > > > >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > > > >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > >> Sent: May 18 '16 13:45 > > >> > > >> Scott, > > >> I would say something like this item. > > >> > > > > > > http://kellycontroller.com/kds36100e100a24v-36v-mini-brushed-controller-p-270.html > > >> Kelly will give you advice on choosing a suitable controller & > > > they > > >> normally respond the > > >> same day. They say the controller should be 2-3 x the power of > > > the > > >> motor. > > >> When I bought my Brushless motor controller I found I couldn't > > >> reverse off a joy stick. > > >> They had a joystick port but just for forward control. I was > > > required > > >> to pay more to get the same > > >> unit programmed to do this. It is a bit ambiguous how they word > > > this > > >> option in the manual. > > >> I saw those Pisces subs on Oahu a couple of years back as has > > > David > > >> C. They were having > > >> funding problems at the time. There are normally turtles in the > > > water > > >> by the wharf & a hole off > > >> to the left that has some resident reef sharks. The guys will > > > point it > > >> out. > > >> Cheers Alan > > >> > > >> ------------------------- > > >> FROM: via Personal_Submersibles > > >> TO: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > >> > > >> SENT: Thursday, May 19, 2016 5:42 AM > > >> SUBJECT: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > > > > >> > > >> I am looking for a motor controller for my two side thrusters. I > > >> currently have it on a off/on switch and it blows fuses from the > > >> spike. I have a variable controller for my rear thruster that > > > works > > >> well. The motors are 14.5 amp each and are 36 volt. > > >> > > >> Thank you, > > >> Scott Waters > > >> > > >>> -------Original Message------- > > >>> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > > >> > > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > >> > > >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > >>> Sent: Apr 29 '16 15:34 > > >> > > >>> > > >>> Alec, > > >>> one thing that wasn't obvious with my KBS mini controller > > > purchase > > >>> was that if you want to run forward / reverse off one axis of a > > >>> joystick, > > >>> you have to specify this option. It costs you an extra $26- & > > > is a > > >>> software change they make. They call this an electric boat > > > function. > > >>> Alan > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >> > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 19 10:01:47 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 09:01:47 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?Kelly_controllers?= In-Reply-To: References: <659080306.4911794.1463610697900.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <20160519125356.29811.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: <20160519140147.31351.qmail@server268.com> Ok. I will look more into it. How do you go about testing if a motor is pulling the amount it's plate says it should. I am also suspicious that since the motors are old, that it may have barrings that are not spinning very well, but I don't believe that is the problem. Thank you, Scott Waters > -------Original Message------- > From: Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > Sent: May 19 '16 08:05 > > Hi Scott, > I'm not sure what sort of fuses you have, but there are different > types, sort of split into "fast blow" and "slow blow". It's pretty > literal - the slow ones take a bit longer before they burn out, and I > think are designed for applications like your motor starter where > there is a brief current spike at the start. Circuit breakers should > also be relatively slow acting (and being resettable is nice). > > Might be a very easy fix if it's just a matter of replacing the fuses > with ones that blow as slowly as possible. > > Cheers, > Steve > > On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 10:53 PM, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Alec, > > > > I am pretty sure that is correct. The side thrusters are 14.5 amp > > 36V and I believe 1/3 horse and the rear thruster is 74 amp 36 volt > > and 3 horse. I may have to take them apart to look at the plates on > > them again. The problem I am having is the spike from on/off in > > either forward or reverse frequently pops the fuse. Is a motor > > controller the best way to fix this or is there a better way such as > > a capacitor? DC electrical motors and engineering are my two weak > > subjects in submarines. > > > > Thank you, > > Scott Waters > > > >> -------Original Message------- > >> From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > > > >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > > >> Sent: May 18 '16 20:35 > >> > >> Scott are you sure those motors only pull 15 amps? It seems very > >> little for a stonking big piece of hardware like that, but maybe > > the > >> motor inside the can is smaller that one would expect. Consider > > the > >> 101's also run at 36 volts but pull three times the current. > > Anyway if > >> the current draw is correct you would have no problem running > > them off > >> the standard MK controller. You could even run both of them off > > a > >> single controller, although you would need some switches or > > relays to > >> reverse them independently. But the MK controllers are cheap, so > > maybe > >> just provide each thruster its own speed control. > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> Alec > >> > >> On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 6:31 PM, Alan James via > > Personal_Submersibles > >> wrote: > >> > >> > Scott, > >> > thinking more about it. That Kelly controller requires a > > separate > >> > reverse contactor & reverse switch. > >> > (they sell them) > >> > Also you need to buy their connectors to connect to the > > computer to > >> > program it. The wiring diagram > >> > is for a key start, which is a solenoid switch, so you have to > > work > >> > out how to wire it differently if > >> > you don't want a key start. > >> > You sound like you are within the parameters of a MK 101 motor > >> > controller. I am not familiar > >> > with it but Cliff & Alec are. I believe you can just plug in > > the > >> > right joystick with spring to centre > >> > & get forward & backward on that same axis. The MK sounds like > > it > >> > would be a lot simpler to set up. > >> > Alan > >> > > >> > ------------------------- > >> > FROM: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles > >> > > >> > TO: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >> > > >> > SENT: Thursday, May 19, 2016 9:08 AM > >> > > >> > SUBJECT: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > >> > > >> > No, they are Kitteredge originals > >> > Thanks, > >> > Scott Waters > >> > > >> > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > >> > > >> > -------- Original message -------- > >> > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > >> > > >> > Date: 05/18/2016 3:53 PM (GMT-06:00) > >> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >> > > >> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > >> > > >> > Scott, > >> > are they Minn kota motors? > >> > Alan > >> > > >> > ------------------------- > >> > FROM: via Personal_Submersibles > > > >> > TO: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >> > > >> > SENT: Thursday, May 19, 2016 8:29 AM > > > >>> SUBJECT: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > >> > > >> > Thanks Alan > >> > > >> > -Scott Waters > >> > > >> >> -------Original Message------- > >> >> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > >> > > >> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >> > > >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > >> >> Sent: May 18 '16 13:45 > >> >> > >> >> Scott, > >> >> I would say something like this item. > >> >> > >> > > >> > > > http://kellycontroller.com/kds36100e100a24v-36v-mini-brushed-controller-p-270.html > >> >> Kelly will give you advice on choosing a suitable controller > > & > >> > they > >> >> normally respond the > >> >> same day. They say the controller should be 2-3 x the power > > of > >> > the > >> >> motor. > >> >> When I bought my Brushless motor controller I found I > > couldn't > >> >> reverse off a joy stick. > >> >> They had a joystick port but just for forward control. I was > >> > required > >> >> to pay more to get the same > >> >> unit programmed to do this. It is a bit ambiguous how they > > word > >> > this > >> >> option in the manual. > >> >> I saw those Pisces subs on Oahu a couple of years back as has > >> > David > >> >> C. They were having > >> >> funding problems at the time. There are normally turtles in > > the > >> > water > >> >> by the wharf & a hole off > >> >> to the left that has some resident reef sharks. The guys will > >> > point it > >> >> out. > >> >> Cheers Alan > >> >> > >> >> ------------------------- > >> >> FROM: via Personal_Submersibles > > > >> >> TO: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >> >> > >> >> SENT: Thursday, May 19, 2016 5:42 AM > >> >> SUBJECT: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > >> > > >> >> > >> >> I am looking for a motor controller for my two side > > thrusters. I > >> >> currently have it on a off/on switch and it blows fuses from > > the > >> >> spike. I have a variable controller for my rear thruster that > >> > works > >> >> well. The motors are 14.5 amp each and are 36 volt. > >> >> > >> >> Thank you, > >> >> Scott Waters > >> >> > >> >>> -------Original Message------- > >> >>> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > >> >> > >> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >> >> > >> >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > >> >>> Sent: Apr 29 '16 15:34 > >> >> > >> >>> > >> >>> Alec, > >> >>> one thing that wasn't obvious with my KBS mini controller > >> > purchase > >> >>> was that if you want to run forward / reverse off one axis > > of a > >> >>> joystick, > >> >>> you have to specify this option. It costs you an extra $26- > > & > >> > is a > >> >>> software change they make. They call this an electric boat > >> > function. > >> >>> Alan > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> >> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> >> > >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 19 10:59:07 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 09:59:07 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers In-Reply-To: <20160519125356.29811.qmail@server268.com> References: <659080306.4911794.1463610697900.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <20160519125356.29811.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: Scott. I would try one of the MC 101 motor controllers for each vertical thruster. They should work well for this application. The motor controller has a soft start which should solve the fuse blowing. You don't need a reversing contactor with these controllers. When the pot is near the center of its taper (2.5vdc) the motor to the thruster (10AWG) are also connected with 1/4" spade connectors. Cliff On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 7:53 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, > > I am pretty sure that is correct. The side thrusters are 14.5 amp 36V and > I believe 1/3 horse and the rear thruster is 74 amp 36 volt and 3 horse. I > may have to take them apart to look at the plates on them again. The > problem I am having is the spike from on/off in either forward or reverse > frequently pops the fuse. Is a motor controller the best way to fix this or > is there a better way such as a capacitor? DC electrical motors and > engineering are my two weak subjects in submarines. > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > Sent: May 18 '16 20:35 > > > > Scott are you sure those motors only pull 15 amps? It seems very > > little for a stonking big piece of hardware like that, but maybe the > > motor inside the can is smaller that one would expect. Consider the > > 101's also run at 36 volts but pull three times the current. Anyway if > > the current draw is correct you would have no problem running them off > > the standard MK controller. You could even run both of them off a > > single controller, although you would need some switches or relays to > > reverse them independently. But the MK controllers are cheap, so maybe > > just provide each thruster its own speed control. > > > > Best, > > > > Alec > > > > On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 6:31 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > > Scott, > > > thinking more about it. That Kelly controller requires a separate > > > reverse contactor & reverse switch. > > > (they sell them) > > > Also you need to buy their connectors to connect to the computer to > > > program it. The wiring diagram > > > is for a key start, which is a solenoid switch, so you have to work > > > out how to wire it differently if > > > you don't want a key start. > > > You sound like you are within the parameters of a MK 101 motor > > > controller. I am not familiar > > > with it but Cliff & Alec are. I believe you can just plug in the > > > right joystick with spring to centre > > > & get forward & backward on that same axis. The MK sounds like it > > > would be a lot simpler to set up. > > > Alan > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > FROM: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles > > > > > > TO: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > > > > SENT: Thursday, May 19, 2016 9:08 AM > > > > > > SUBJECT: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > > > > > No, they are Kitteredge originals > > > Thanks, > > > Scott Waters > > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > > > > -------- Original message -------- > > > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > > > > > > Date: 05/18/2016 3:53 PM (GMT-06:00) > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > > > > > Scott, > > > are they Minn kota motors? > > > Alan > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > FROM: via Personal_Submersibles > > > TO: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > > > > SENT: Thursday, May 19, 2016 8:29 AM > > > SUBJECT: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > > > > > Thanks Alan > > > > > > -Scott Waters > > > > > >> -------Original Message------- > > >> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > > > > > >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > > > >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > >> Sent: May 18 '16 13:45 > > >> > > >> Scott, > > >> I would say something like this item. > > >> > > > > > > http://kellycontroller.com/kds36100e100a24v-36v-mini-brushed-controller-p-270.html > > >> Kelly will give you advice on choosing a suitable controller & > > > they > > >> normally respond the > > >> same day. They say the controller should be 2-3 x the power of > > > the > > >> motor. > > >> When I bought my Brushless motor controller I found I couldn't > > >> reverse off a joy stick. > > >> They had a joystick port but just for forward control. I was > > > required > > >> to pay more to get the same > > >> unit programmed to do this. It is a bit ambiguous how they word > > > this > > >> option in the manual. > > >> I saw those Pisces subs on Oahu a couple of years back as has > > > David > > >> C. They were having > > >> funding problems at the time. There are normally turtles in the > > > water > > >> by the wharf & a hole off > > >> to the left that has some resident reef sharks. The guys will > > > point it > > >> out. > > >> Cheers Alan > > >> > > >> ------------------------- > > >> FROM: via Personal_Submersibles > > >> TO: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > >> > > >> SENT: Thursday, May 19, 2016 5:42 AM > > >> SUBJECT: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > > > > >> > > >> I am looking for a motor controller for my two side thrusters. I > > >> currently have it on a off/on switch and it blows fuses from the > > >> spike. I have a variable controller for my rear thruster that > > > works > > >> well. The motors are 14.5 amp each and are 36 volt. > > >> > > >> Thank you, > > >> Scott Waters > > >> > > >>> -------Original Message------- > > >>> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > > >> > > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > >> > > >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > >>> Sent: Apr 29 '16 15:34 > > >> > > >>> > > >>> Alec, > > >>> one thing that wasn't obvious with my KBS mini controller > > > purchase > > >>> was that if you want to run forward / reverse off one axis of a > > >>> joystick, > > >>> you have to specify this option. It costs you an extra $26- & > > > is a > > >>> software change they make. They call this an electric boat > > > function. > > >>> Alan > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >> > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 19 14:07:44 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 13:07:44 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers Message-ID: <2c3mpfpb96lnd3rgfirp7bmk.1463681264688@email.android.com> Do you have a link to where to buy them? Can I still use my rocker switch that I am currnetly using (forward/reverse).Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Date: 05/19/2016 9:59 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers Scott.? I would try one of the MC 101 motor controllers for each vertical thruster.? They should work well for this application.? The motor controller has a soft start which should solve the fuse blowing.? You don't need a reversing contactor with these controllers.? When the pot is near the center of its taper (2.5vdc) the motor to the thruster (10AWG) are also connected with 1/4" spade connectors.? Cliff On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 7:53 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, I am pretty sure that is correct. The side thrusters are 14.5 amp 36V and I believe 1/3 horse and the rear thruster is 74 amp 36 volt and 3 horse. I may have to take them apart to look at the plates on them again. The problem I am having is the spike from on/off in either forward or reverse frequently pops the fuse. Is a motor controller the best way to fix this or is there a better way such as a capacitor? DC electrical motors and engineering are my two weak subjects in submarines. Thank you, Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers >? Sent: May 18 '16 20:35 > >? Scott are you sure those motors only pull 15 amps? It seems very >? little for a stonking big piece of hardware like that, but maybe the >? motor inside the can is smaller that one would expect. Consider the >? 101's also run at 36 volts but pull three times the current. Anyway if >? the current draw is correct you would have no problem running them off >? the standard MK controller. You could even run both of them off a >? single controller, although you would need some switches or relays to >? reverse them independently. But the MK controllers are cheap, so maybe >? just provide each thruster its own speed control. > >? Best, > >? Alec > >? On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 6:31 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: > >? > Scott, >? > thinking more about it. That Kelly controller requires a separate >? > reverse contactor & reverse switch. >? > (they sell them) >? > Also you need to buy their connectors to connect to the computer to >? > program it. The wiring diagram >? > is for a key start, which is a solenoid switch, so you have to work >? > out how to wire it differently if >? > you don't want a key start. >? > You sound like you are within the parameters of a MK 101 motor >? > controller. I am not familiar >? > with it but Cliff & Alec are. I believe you can just plug in the >? > right joystick with spring to centre >? > & get forward & backward on that same axis. The MK sounds like it >? > would be a lot simpler to set up. >? > Alan >? > >? > ------------------------- >? > FROM: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles >? > >? > TO: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? > >? > SENT: Thursday, May 19, 2016 9:08 AM >? > >? > SUBJECT: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers >? > >? > No, they are Kitteredge originals >? > Thanks, >? > Scott Waters >? > >? > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >? > >? > -------- Original message -------- >? > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >? > >? > Date: 05/18/2016 3:53 PM (GMT-06:00) >? > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? > >? > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers >? > >? > Scott, >? > are they Minn kota motors? >? > Alan >? > >? > ------------------------- >? > FROM: via Personal_Submersibles >? > TO: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? > >? > SENT: Thursday, May 19, 2016 8:29 AM >? > SUBJECT: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers >? > >? > Thanks Alan >? > >? > -Scott Waters >? > >? >> -------Original Message------- >? >> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >? > >? >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? > >? >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers >? >> Sent: May 18 '16 13:45 >? >> >? >> Scott, >? >> I would say something like this item. >? >> >? > >? http://kellycontroller.com/kds36100e100a24v-36v-mini-brushed-controller-p-270.html >? >> Kelly will give you advice on choosing a suitable controller & >? > they >? >> normally respond the >? >> same day. They say the controller should be 2-3 x the power of >? > the >? >> motor. >? >> When I bought my Brushless motor controller I found I couldn't >? >> reverse off a joy stick. >? >> They had a joystick port but just for forward control. I was >? > required >? >> to pay more to get the same >? >> unit programmed to do this. It is a bit ambiguous how they word >? > this >? >> option in the manual. >? >> I saw those Pisces subs on Oahu a couple of years back as has >? > David >? >> C. They were having >? >> funding problems at the time. There are normally turtles in the >? > water >? >> by the wharf & a hole off >? >> to the left that has some resident reef sharks. The guys will >? > point it >? >> out. >? >> Cheers Alan >? >> >? >> ------------------------- >? >> FROM: via Personal_Submersibles >? >> TO: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? >> >? >> SENT: Thursday, May 19, 2016 5:42 AM >? >> SUBJECT: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers >? > >? >> >? >> I am looking for a motor controller for my two side thrusters. I >? >> currently have it on a off/on switch and it blows fuses from the >? >> spike. I have a variable controller for my rear thruster that >? > works >? >> well. The motors are 14.5 amp each and are 36 volt. >? >> >? >> Thank you, >? >> Scott Waters >? >> >? >>> -------Original Message------- >? >>> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >? >> >? >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? >> >? >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers >? >>> Sent: Apr 29 '16 15:34 >? >> >? >>> >? >>> Alec, >? >>> one thing that wasn't obvious with my KBS mini controller >? > purchase >? >>> was that if you want to run forward / reverse off one axis of a >? >>> joystick, >? >>> you have to specify this option. It costs you an extra $26- & >? > is a >? >>> software change they make. They call this an electric boat >? > function. >? >>> Alan >? >> _______________________________________________ >? >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >> >? >> >? > _______________________________________________ >? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? > >? > _______________________________________________ >? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? > >? > _______________________________________________ >? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 19 15:36:00 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 14:36:00 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers In-Reply-To: <2c3mpfpb96lnd3rgfirp7bmk.1463681264688@email.android.com> References: <2c3mpfpb96lnd3rgfirp7bmk.1463681264688@email.android.com> Message-ID: Scott do a search on ebay MINN KOTA TRAXXIS TROLLING MOTOR MAIN CONTROL BOARD PN# 2184017 OR 2184027 . These are for sell every day. Rocker switch is normally used when you are using a reversing contactor to change the polarity to the DC motor. If you are going to use a motor controller like shown above, then you would only use the potentiometer on each controller or a joy stick replacing the pot for a PLC interfacing between the joystick and motor controller to change direction. May you could the switch for some other function on the boat. Cliff On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:07 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Do you have a link to where to buy them? Can I still use my rocker switch > that I am currnetly using (forward/reverse). > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Date: 05/19/2016 9:59 AM (GMT-06:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > Scott. I would try one of the MC 101 motor controllers for each vertical > thruster. They should work well for this application. The motor > controller has a soft start which should solve the fuse blowing. You don't > need a reversing contactor with these controllers. When the pot is near > the center of its taper (2.5vdc) the motor to the thruster (10AWG) are also > connected with 1/4" spade connectors. > > Cliff > > On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 7:53 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Alec, >> >> I am pretty sure that is correct. The side thrusters are 14.5 amp 36V and >> I believe 1/3 horse and the rear thruster is 74 amp 36 volt and 3 horse. I >> may have to take them apart to look at the plates on them again. The >> problem I am having is the spike from on/off in either forward or reverse >> frequently pops the fuse. Is a motor controller the best way to fix this or >> is there a better way such as a capacitor? DC electrical motors and >> engineering are my two weak subjects in submarines. >> >> Thank you, >> Scott Waters >> >> > -------Original Message------- >> > From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers >> > Sent: May 18 '16 20:35 >> > >> > Scott are you sure those motors only pull 15 amps? It seems very >> > little for a stonking big piece of hardware like that, but maybe the >> > motor inside the can is smaller that one would expect. Consider the >> > 101's also run at 36 volts but pull three times the current. Anyway if >> > the current draw is correct you would have no problem running them off >> > the standard MK controller. You could even run both of them off a >> > single controller, although you would need some switches or relays to >> > reverse them independently. But the MK controllers are cheap, so maybe >> > just provide each thruster its own speed control. >> > >> > Best, >> > >> > Alec >> > >> > On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 6:31 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Scott, >> > > thinking more about it. That Kelly controller requires a separate >> > > reverse contactor & reverse switch. >> > > (they sell them) >> > > Also you need to buy their connectors to connect to the computer to >> > > program it. The wiring diagram >> > > is for a key start, which is a solenoid switch, so you have to work >> > > out how to wire it differently if >> > > you don't want a key start. >> > > You sound like you are within the parameters of a MK 101 motor >> > > controller. I am not familiar >> > > with it but Cliff & Alec are. I believe you can just plug in the >> > > right joystick with spring to centre >> > > & get forward & backward on that same axis. The MK sounds like it >> > > would be a lot simpler to set up. >> > > Alan >> > > >> > > ------------------------- >> > > FROM: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles >> > > >> > > TO: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> > > >> > > SENT: Thursday, May 19, 2016 9:08 AM >> > > >> > > SUBJECT: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers >> > > >> > > No, they are Kitteredge originals >> > > Thanks, >> > > Scott Waters >> > > >> > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> > > >> > > -------- Original message -------- >> > > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >> > > >> > > Date: 05/18/2016 3:53 PM (GMT-06:00) >> > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> > > >> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers >> > > >> > > Scott, >> > > are they Minn kota motors? >> > > Alan >> > > >> > > ------------------------- >> > > FROM: via Personal_Submersibles >> > > TO: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> > > >> > > SENT: Thursday, May 19, 2016 8:29 AM >> > > SUBJECT: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers >> > > >> > > Thanks Alan >> > > >> > > -Scott Waters >> > > >> > >> -------Original Message------- >> > >> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >> > > >> > >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> > > >> > >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers >> > >> Sent: May 18 '16 13:45 >> > >> >> > >> Scott, >> > >> I would say something like this item. >> > >> >> > > >> > >> http://kellycontroller.com/kds36100e100a24v-36v-mini-brushed-controller-p-270.html >> > >> Kelly will give you advice on choosing a suitable controller & >> > > they >> > >> normally respond the >> > >> same day. They say the controller should be 2-3 x the power of >> > > the >> > >> motor. >> > >> When I bought my Brushless motor controller I found I couldn't >> > >> reverse off a joy stick. >> > >> They had a joystick port but just for forward control. I was >> > > required >> > >> to pay more to get the same >> > >> unit programmed to do this. It is a bit ambiguous how they word >> > > this >> > >> option in the manual. >> > >> I saw those Pisces subs on Oahu a couple of years back as has >> > > David >> > >> C. They were having >> > >> funding problems at the time. There are normally turtles in the >> > > water >> > >> by the wharf & a hole off >> > >> to the left that has some resident reef sharks. The guys will >> > > point it >> > >> out. >> > >> Cheers Alan >> > >> >> > >> ------------------------- >> > >> FROM: via Personal_Submersibles >> > >> TO: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> > >> >> > >> SENT: Thursday, May 19, 2016 5:42 AM >> > >> SUBJECT: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers >> > > >> > >> >> > >> I am looking for a motor controller for my two side thrusters. I >> > >> currently have it on a off/on switch and it blows fuses from the >> > >> spike. I have a variable controller for my rear thruster that >> > > works >> > >> well. The motors are 14.5 amp each and are 36 volt. >> > >> >> > >> Thank you, >> > >> Scott Waters >> > >> >> > >>> -------Original Message------- >> > >>> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >> > >> >> > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> > >> >> > >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers >> > >>> Sent: Apr 29 '16 15:34 >> > >> >> > >>> >> > >>> Alec, >> > >>> one thing that wasn't obvious with my KBS mini controller >> > > purchase >> > >>> was that if you want to run forward / reverse off one axis of a >> > >>> joystick, >> > >>> you have to specify this option. It costs you an extra $26- & >> > > is a >> > >>> software change they make. They call this an electric boat >> > > function. >> > >>> Alan >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> >> > >> >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 19 15:46:43 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 14:46:43 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?Kelly_controllers?= In-Reply-To: References: <2c3mpfpb96lnd3rgfirp7bmk.1463681264688@email.android.com> Message-ID: <20160519194643.2431.qmail@server268.com> Thank s Cliff. I got a lot to learn when it come to controllers. You never stop learning with submarines Thanks, Scott > -------Original Message------- > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > Sent: May 19 '16 14:37 > > Scott do a search on ebay MINN KOTA TRAXXIS TROLLING MOTOR MAIN > CONTROL BOARD PN# 2184017 OR 2184027 . These are for sell every day. > > Rocker switch is normally used when you are using a reversing > contactor to change the polarity to the DC motor. If you are going to > use a motor controller like shown above, then you would only use the > potentiometer on each controller or a joy stick replacing the pot for > a PLC interfacing between the joystick and motor controller to change > direction. May you could the switch for some other function on the > boat. > > Cliff > > On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:07 PM, Scott Waters via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Do you have a link to where to buy them? Can I still use my rocker > > switch that I am currnetly using (forward/reverse). > > Thanks, > > Scott Waters > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > > -------- Original message -------- > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > > > > Date: 05/19/2016 9:59 AM (GMT-06:00) > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > > > > Scott. I would try one of the MC 101 motor controllers for each > > vertical thruster. They should work well for this application. The > > motor controller has a soft start which should solve the fuse > > blowing. You don't need a reversing contactor with these > > controllers. When the pot is near the center of its taper (2.5vdc) > > the motor to the thruster (10AWG) are also connected with 1/4" spade > > connectors. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 7:53 AM, via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > >> Alec, > >> > >> I am pretty sure that is correct. The side thrusters are 14.5 amp > >> 36V and I believe 1/3 horse and the rear thruster is 74 amp 36 > >> volt and 3 horse. I may have to take them apart to look at the > >> plates on them again. The problem I am having is the spike from > >> on/off in either forward or reverse frequently pops the fuse. Is a > >> motor controller the best way to fix this or is there a better way > >> such as a capacitor? DC electrical motors and engineering are my > >> two weak subjects in submarines. > >> > >> Thank you, > >> Scott Waters > >> > >>> -------Original Message------- > >>> From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > >> > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >> > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > >>> Sent: May 18 '16 20:35 > >>> > >>> Scott are you sure those motors only pull 15 amps? It seems > >> very > >>> little for a stonking big piece of hardware like that, but > >> maybe the > >>> motor inside the can is smaller that one would expect. > >> Consider the > >>> 101's also run at 36 volts but pull three times the current. > >> Anyway if > >>> the current draw is correct you would have no problem running > >> them off > >>> the standard MK controller. You could even run both of them > >> off a > >>> single controller, although you would need some switches or > >> relays to > >>> reverse them independently. But the MK controllers are cheap, > >> so maybe > >>> just provide each thruster its own speed control. > >>> > >>> Best, > >>> > >>> Alec > >>> > >>> On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 6:31 PM, Alan James via > >> Personal_Submersibles > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Scott, > >>>> thinking more about it. That Kelly controller requires a > >> separate > >>>> reverse contactor & reverse switch. > >>>> (they sell them) > >>>> Also you need to buy their connectors to connect to the > >> computer to > >>>> program it. The wiring diagram > >>>> is for a key start, which is a solenoid switch, so you have > >> to work > >>>> out how to wire it differently if > >>>> you don't want a key start. > >>>> You sound like you are within the parameters of a MK 101 > >> motor > >>>> controller. I am not familiar > >>>> with it but Cliff & Alec are. I believe you can just plug in > >> the > >>>> right joystick with spring to centre > >>>> & get forward & backward on that same axis. The MK sounds > >> like it > >>>> would be a lot simpler to set up. > >>>> Alan > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------- > >>>> FROM: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles > >>>> > >>>> TO: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>>> > >>>> SENT: Thursday, May 19, 2016 9:08 AM > >>>> > >>>> SUBJECT: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > >>>> > >>>> No, they are Kitteredge originals > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> Scott Waters > >>>> > >>>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > >>>> > >>>> -------- Original message -------- > >>>> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > >>>> > >>>> Date: 05/18/2016 3:53 PM (GMT-06:00) > >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>>> > >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > >>>> > >>>> Scott, > >>>> are they Minn kota motors? > >>>> Alan > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------- > >>>> FROM: via Personal_Submersibles > >> > >>>> TO: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>>> > >>>> SENT: Thursday, May 19, 2016 8:29 AM > >>>> SUBJECT: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > >>>> > >>>> Thanks Alan > >>>> > >>>> -Scott Waters > >>>> > >>>>> -------Original Message------- > >>>>> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > >>>> > >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>>> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > >>>>> Sent: May 18 '16 13:45 > >>>>> > >>>>> Scott, > >>>>> I would say something like this item. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > > > http://kellycontroller.com/kds36100e100a24v-36v-mini-brushed-controller-p-270.html > >>>>> Kelly will give you advice on choosing a suitable > >> controller & > >>>> they > >>>>> normally respond the > >>>>> same day. They say the controller should be 2-3 x the power > >> of > >>>> the > >>>>> motor. > >>>>> When I bought my Brushless motor controller I found I > >> couldn't > >>>>> reverse off a joy stick. > >>>>> They had a joystick port but just for forward control. I > >> was > >>>> required > >>>>> to pay more to get the same > >>>>> unit programmed to do this. It is a bit ambiguous how they > >> word > >>>> this > >>>>> option in the manual. > >>>>> I saw those Pisces subs on Oahu a couple of years back as > >> has > >>>> David > >>>>> C. They were having > >>>>> funding problems at the time. There are normally turtles in > >> the > >>>> water > >>>>> by the wharf & a hole off > >>>>> to the left that has some resident reef sharks. The guys > >> will > >>>> point it > >>>>> out. > >>>>> Cheers Alan > >>>>> > >>>>> ------------------------- > >>>>> FROM: via Personal_Submersibles > >> > >>>>> TO: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>>>> > >>>>> SENT: Thursday, May 19, 2016 5:42 AM > >>>>> SUBJECT: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> I am looking for a motor controller for my two side > >> thrusters. I > >>>>> currently have it on a off/on switch and it blows fuses > >> from the > >>>>> spike. I have a variable controller for my rear thruster > >> that > >>>> works > >>>>> well. The motors are 14.5 amp each and are 36 volt. > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you, > >>>>> Scott Waters > >>>>> > >>>>>> -------Original Message------- > >>>>>> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > >>>>> > >>>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>>>> > >>>>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Kelly controllers > >>>>>> Sent: Apr 29 '16 15:34 > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Alec, > >>>>>> one thing that wasn't obvious with my KBS mini controller > >>>> purchase > >>>>>> was that if you want to run forward / reverse off one axis > >> of a > >>>>>> joystick, > >>>>>> you have to specify this option. It costs you an extra > >> $26- & > >>>> is a > >>>>>> software change they make. They call this an electric boat > >>>> function. > >>>>>> Alan > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>>> > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>> > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>> > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>> > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 19 16:02:15 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 21:02:15 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests In-Reply-To: References: <205241989.5773340.1463656344575.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Antonine. Fantastic report! Really interesting. Sounds like you are almost ready for your trip. Thanks, keep us updated. Kind regards James On Thursday, 19 May 2016, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Yes Alan, > we will do that between 5 and 12 of August > > regards, > Antoine > > On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > >> Excellent report, enjoyed reading it. >> Do you have an anticipated date to cross the channel? >> Alan >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> > >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> > >> *Sent:* Thursday, May 19, 2016 9:57 PM >> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests >> >> Hello psubbers, >> >> Last week end we drove to the same lake as the first to do some more test >> dives for our little human powered sub. Quite another event rich sequence >> worth sharing: >> >> -The preparation session went ok. We just had another tv crew, which is >> fine but is slowed us down, as they often want you to repeat some moves >> even when they say they just want to film you do your things. Interviews >> themselves are really short. >> >> -When driving to the harbour?s launch slope on a bumpy path, we heard a >> noise a km before arriving. We found out that our 100kg emergency drop >> weight had fallen from the sub. Hopefully it only fell 15cm onto the >> central beam of the trailer, from where it could not go anywhere? The >> vibrations had moved the release pins, and it also moved apart by a few mm >> the lower legs of our nose frame, which normally closely bound each side of >> the drop weight and where the release pins go. With a few hands we pushed >> the weight back up in place. Lesson learned: use longer pins, retighten the >> frame and add a thread bar to keep the legs of lower frame close enough >> together. Also, we should have the drop weight rest on 3 support points (2 >> pins, 1 ledge), not 4 (2pins, 2 ledges) which will never be fully stable. >> >> -We then launched. It went smoothly as we had done it before and knew >> exactly where to bring the trailer and its rope extension to have the sub >> float. >> We then deflated the ballasts to check the trim inside the harbour. This >> time it was perfect, having captured last time?s 25kg discrepancy in our >> reference excel file and recomputed the lead weight we needed this time >> given all the food and stuff we had taken. >> >> -then the boat towed us out, until we reached a 4m water depth to pedal a >> bit. This went ok. We were just intrigued by a tiny high frequency >> vibration coming from the prop shaft, which was there regardless of >> rotating speed, but only when pedaling in the forward direction. It was not >> there during the first dives, and it disappeared the next day. We are >> wondering whether it came from the water lubricated bearing , or the >> pressure seal assembly. The length of the prop shaft of over 2m makes it >> probably prone to resonance. >> >> -This time we had better navigation instruments, a compass mounted right >> outside the dome in front of us, on the aluminium dome seat, with quite >> lower magnetic deviation due to the hull than we feared. Also a diver depth >> gauge was there, very useful. We were eager to test our imagenex >> sonar/sounder combo, but could not get it to work for that dive. Will be >> next time? >> >> -The sub turned out quite stable, keeping straight when we stop pedaling, >> but we noticed that having a buoy attached at the front of the sub with a >> short rope to remain clear of the propeller gave a bit of instability on >> top of extra drag. Depth control worked well with our 80kg tray on rollers >> beneath batteries and pilot seat, although we were not aiming for very >> large swings of depth. We just need to rework a bit the handle so it is >> more convenient to use, especially when the sub is at large angles. >> >> -The oxygen consumption turned out lower than we expected. Michael and >> myself are quite lightweights I should say. We were running at 0.75L/mn for >> 2 people at rest, it actually went down to 0.5L/mn during the night, with >> one sleeping. It also shooted up to 2L/mn after I went out for a swim >> around the sub in cold water to remove our buoy rope from the prop the next >> day. So feeling warm is really good to lower oxy consumption, and a down >> jacket, socks, hat and gloves may be worth kgs of sodalime in emergency >> mode! When pedaling it ranged between 1.25 to 2L/mn, not as high as >> anticipated, but the pedaling resistance and heart rate remained quite >> moderate. This brings our ?theoretical? life support autonomy to a whopping >> 16 days in pedaling mode, and 37 days in rest mode. >> >> then we went for a tow to a nice diving spot on the other shore of the >> lake where we would spend the night and find deeper water for the next days >> dives. The tow was quite choppy, and we occasionally dove a 0.5 to 1 m with >> dynamic effects, although since the first dives we moved the towing point >> below the nose tip which improved considerably the behavior under tow. At >> some point we had to slow down the tow as we noticed that the dome had >> slightly moved on its seat, under a combination of : effect of slight >> internal overpressure caused by temperature increase due to sun light in >> the dome and slight CO2 build up, wave action, occasional UW dips, and >> primarily because the force on the dome retainer strap was not high enough. >> When we arrived at the other shore, we moored, inflated ballasts and >> delicately removed the dome to check the oring and force on retainer strap. >> We noticed the oring had a pinch point towards the dome pressure seat, so >> we cleaned and re-placed it in a way to keep low pressure tightness. We >> also added 1mm spacer between the dome and retainer strap to increase the >> strap down force, and ensure a large enough oring compression so the dome >> rests on its seat with no gap. the general theory says that a gap should >> not be an issue as when you dive, the force closing the gap should be many >> times higher than the force pushing the oring in. But here a combination of >> waves, overpressure etc may have moved a bit the oring in at some point. >> We also removed the prop to see if some debris could have caused the >> subtle vibrations, but could not find any thing. >> >> -After that we had dinner and landed the sub to spend the night near the >> shore in less than 2m water depth. Deployed our anchor also to stay put. It >> worked well. Inside the sub we deployed our bunker bed and tested switching >> positions between Michael and I. We slept one after the other, so we could >> check on O2 and CO2 levels. Comfort was not bad, because the bunker bed is >> really nice, but space is really small inside. We can grab all the controls >> and isolation valves in case of emergency, but you can t help but feel like >> trapped inside... During the night we used the red lighting as in real >> subs, to feel like in the submarine movies, it was really cool! >> >> -Next day, after a beautiful sun rise seen from underwater, we went for a >> dive to 10m water depth where we could have space above and below us to >> really operate the water ballast and trim weight tray on rollers. Thanks to >> our depth gauge, water circuitry and hand pump we could get in trim within >> less than 1 kilo, and feel the inertia of piloting moves. It was really >> good feeling piloting that thing in three dimensions. After the dive we >> surfaced with our ballast and pedaled we got the rope in our large prop, >> which led me go out, take a swim to cut it, and shorten the buoy rope as >> our dive support boat had not arrived and our dive support was on the >> shore. We ll probably add a duct around our prop... Then before I came back >> in, some fishermen in another boat came and asked us whether we were fine, >> they initially thought we were a boat upside down. It was funny seeing >> their hallucinating faces. >> >> -we then had our own support boat come over and we went on for a >> stretch of pedaling at 2m water depth. We could measure our speed at 1.2kt >> which falls in the ball park we anticipated. We may gain some without a >> buoy, and once our composite shells are polished, and also with a more >> stable steering than what we had (the short buoy rope attached to the front >> of the sub made it difficult to keep a stable course). On the other hand >> adding a duct around our large prop may decrease our speed. But a duct >> would also increase a bit the power we can put in at 70rpm, so we might >> compensate extra drag effect on speed by extra thrust. >> >> -Over the week end in the sub, we managed to log quite a few hours with >> our scrubbers. We reckoned we got over 200LCO2 /kg of sodasorb, which is >> better than the typical figure given by the manufacturer (185LCO2/Kg). The >> scrubber starts being less efficient indeed at around that amount but we >> can still manage <1% in the cabin some time after that. On top of that, we >> have probably extra absorption capacity from our nearly worn scrubbers as >> we saw it can still run with an exhaust lean in CO2 in parallel or series >> to our second fresher scrubber. But it is difficult to measure how much we >> can extend the absorption capacity with this technique. >> >> regards, >> Antoine >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 19 16:56:45 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 20:56:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests In-Reply-To: References: <205241989.5773340.1463656344575.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <915451964.5714137.1463691405731.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Just a few more details Antoine.You were sleeping under the water, are you intending to stay under for the wholejourney or will you be surfacing along the way?What depth will you go down to & what depth will you be travelling at most of the time.It will be harder to pedal the deeper you go obviously. Do you have?a film crew making a documentary of the event, other than your own videoing?August is not far away.Alan From: Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 11:21 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests Yes Alan,we will do that between 5 and 12 of August regards,Antoine On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Excellent report, enjoyed reading it.Do you have an anticipated date to cross the channel?Alan From: Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 9:57 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests Hello psubbers, Last week end wedrove to the same lake as the first to do some more test dives for our littlehuman powered sub. Quite another event rich sequence worth sharing: -The preparation session went ok. We just had another tv crew, which is fine but is?slowed us down, as they often want?you to repeat some moves even when they say they just want to film you do your things. Interviews themselves are really short. -When driving tothe harbour?s launch slope on a bumpy path, we heard a noise a km beforearriving. We found out that our 100kg emergency drop weight had fallen from thesub. Hopefully it only fell 15cm onto the central beam of the trailer, fromwhere it could not go anywhere? The vibrations had moved the release pins, andit also moved apart by a few mm the lower legs of our nose frame, whichnormally closely bound each side of the drop weight and where the release pinsgo. With a few hands we pushed the weight back up in place. Lesson learned: uselonger pins, retighten the frame and add a thread bar to keep the legs of lowerframe close enough together. Also, we should have the drop weight rest on 3 supportpoints (2 pins, 1 ledge), not 4 (2pins, 2 ledges) which will never be fullystable.?-We thenlaunched. It went smoothly as we had done it before and knew exactly where tobring the trailer and its rope extension to have the sub float. We then deflatedthe ballasts to check the trim inside the harbour. This time it was perfect,having captured last time?s 25kg discrepancy in?our reference excel file andrecomputed the lead weight we needed this time given all the food and stuff wehad taken.?-then the boattowed us out, until we reached a 4m water depth to pedal a bit. This went ok.We were just intrigued by a tiny high frequency vibration coming from the propshaft, which was there regardless of rotating speed, but only when pedaling in?the forwarddirection. It was not there during the first dives, and it disappeared the nextday. We are wondering whether it came from the water lubricated bearing , or thepressure seal assembly. The length of the prop shaft of over 2m makes itprobably prone to resonance.?-This time wehad better navigation instruments, a compass mounted right outside the dome infront of us, on the aluminium dome seat, with quite lower magnetic deviationdue to the hull than we feared. Also a diver depth gauge was there, veryuseful. We were eager to test our imagenex sonar/sounder combo, but could notget it to work for that dive. Will be next time??-The sub turnedout quite stable, keeping straight when we stop pedaling, but we noticed that havinga buoy attached at the front of the sub with a short rope to remain clear ofthe propeller gave a bit of instability on top of extra drag. Depth controlworked well with our 80kg tray on rollers beneath batteries and pilot seat,although we were not aiming for very large swings of depth. We just need torework a bit the handle so it is more convenient to use, especially when thesub is at large angles. ?-The oxygenconsumption turned out lower than we expected. Michael and myself are quitelightweights I should say. We were running at 0.75L/mn for 2 people at rest, itactually went down to 0.5L/mn during the night, with one sleeping. It alsoshooted up to 2L/mn after I went out for a swim around the sub in cold water toremove our buoy rope from the prop the next day. So feeling warm is really goodto lower oxy consumption, and a down jacket, socks, hat and gloves may be worthkgs of sodalime in emergency mode! When pedaling it ranged between 1.25 to2L/mn, not as high as anticipated, but the pedaling resistance and heart rate remainedquite moderate. This brings our ?theoretical? life support autonomy to awhopping 16 days in pedaling mode, and 37 days in rest mode.?then we went for a tow to anice diving spot on the other shore of the lake where we would spend the nightand find deeper water for the next days dives. The tow was quite choppy, and weoccasionally dove a 0.5 to 1 m with dynamic effects, although since the firstdives we moved the towing point below the nose tip which improved considerablythe behavior under tow. At some point we had to slow down the tow as we noticedthat the dome had slightly moved on its seat, under a combination of : effectof slight internal overpressure caused by temperature increase due to sun lightin the dome and slight CO2 build up, wave action, occasional UW dips, and primarilybecause the force on the dome retainer strap was not high enough. When we arrivedat the other shore, we moored, inflated ballasts and delicately removed thedome to check the oring and force on retainer strap. We noticed the oring had apinch point towards the dome pressure seat, so we cleaned and re-placed it in away to keep low pressure tightness. We also added 1mm spacer between the domeand retainer strap to increase the strap down force, and ensure a large enoughoring compression so the dome rests on its seat with no gap.?the general?theory says that a gapshould not be an issue as when you dive, the force closing the gap should be many times higherthan the force pushing the oring in. But here a combination of waves,overpressure etc may have moved a bit the oring in at some point.We also removedthe prop to see if some debris could have caused the subtle vibrations, butcould not find any thing. ?-After that wehad dinner and landed the sub to spend the night near the shore in less than 2mwater depth. Deployed our anchor also to stay put. It worked well. Inside thesub we deployed our bunker bed and tested switching positions between Michaeland I. We slept one after the other, so we could check on O2 and CO2 levels. Comfort was not bad,?because the bunker bed is really?nice,?but space is really small inside. We can grab all the controls and isolation valves in case of emergency, but you can t help but feel like trapped inside... During the night we used the red lighting as in real subs, to feel like in the submarine movies, it was really cool!?-Next day, aftera beautiful sun rise seen from underwater, we went for a dive to 10m waterdepth where we could have space above and below us to really operate the waterballast and trim weight tray on rollers. Thanks to our depth gauge, watercircuitry and hand pump we could get in trim within less than 1 kilo, and feel the inertia of piloting moves. It wasreally good feeling piloting that thing in three dimensions. After the dive we surfacedwith our ballast and pedaled we got the rope in our large prop, which led me goout, take a swim to cut it, and shorten the buoy rope as our dive support boathad not arrived and our dive support was on the shore. We ll probably add a duct around our prop... Then before Icame back in, some fishermen in another boat came and asked us whether we werefine, they initially thought we were a boat upside down. It was funny seeingtheir hallucinating faces. ???-wethen had our own support boat come over and we went on for a stretch of pedalingat 2m water depth. We could measure our speed at 1.2kt which falls in the ballpark we anticipated. We may gain some without a buoy, and once our compositeshells are polished, and also with a more stable steering than what we had (theshort buoy rope attached to the front of the sub made it difficult to keep astable course). On the other hand adding a duct around our large prop maydecrease our speed. But a duct would also increase a bit the power we can putin at 70rpm, so we might compensate extra drag effect on speed by extra thrust. -Over the week end in the sub, we managed to log quite a few hours with our scrubbers. We reckoned we got?over 200LCO2 /kg of sodasorb, which is better than the typical figure given by the manufacturer (185LCO2/Kg). The scrubber starts being less efficient indeed at around that amount but we can still manage <1% in the cabin some time after that. On top of that, we have probably extra absorption capacity from our nearly worn scrubbers as we saw it can still run?with an exhaust lean in CO2 in parallel or series to our second fresher scrubber. But it is difficult to measure how much we can extend the absorption capacity with this technique. regards,Antoine _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 19 17:20:19 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 17:20:19 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests In-Reply-To: <915451964.5714137.1463691405731.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <205241989.5773340.1463656344575.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <915451964.5714137.1463691405731.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9B09AC74-EF79-4CEB-8CA0-FB36C4A3BD97@gmail.com> Hi Alan, Why would it be harder to pedal with depth? Pressure on the shaft seal? Thanks, Alec > On May 19, 2016, at 4:56 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Just a few more details Antoine. > You were sleeping under the water, are you intending to stay under for the whole > journey or will you be surfacing along the way? > What depth will you go down to & what depth will you be travelling at most of the time. > It will be harder to pedal the deeper you go obviously. > Do you have a film crew making a documentary of the event, other than your own videoing? > August is not far away. > Alan > > > From: Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 11:21 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests > > Yes Alan, > we will do that between 5 and 12 of August > > regards, > Antoine > > On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Excellent report, enjoyed reading it. > Do you have an anticipated date to cross the channel? > Alan > > > From: Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 9:57 PM > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests > > Hello psubbers, > > Last week end we drove to the same lake as the first to do some more test dives for our little human powered sub. Quite another event rich sequence worth sharing: > > -The preparation session went ok. We just had another tv crew, which is fine but is slowed us down, as they often want you to repeat some moves even when they say they just want to film you do your things. Interviews themselves are really short. > > -When driving to the harbour?s launch slope on a bumpy path, we heard a noise a km before arriving. We found out that our 100kg emergency drop weight had fallen from the sub. Hopefully it only fell 15cm onto the central beam of the trailer, from where it could not go anywhere? The vibrations had moved the release pins, and it also moved apart by a few mm the lower legs of our nose frame, which normally closely bound each side of the drop weight and where the release pins go. With a few hands we pushed the weight back up in place. Lesson learned: use longer pins, retighten the frame and add a thread bar to keep the legs of lower frame close enough together. Also, we should have the drop weight rest on 3 support points (2 pins, 1 ledge), not 4 (2pins, 2 ledges) which will never be fully stable. > > -We then launched. It went smoothly as we had done it before and knew exactly where to bring the trailer and its rope extension to have the sub float. > We then deflated the ballasts to check the trim inside the harbour. This time it was perfect, having captured last time?s 25kg discrepancy in our reference excel file and recomputed the lead weight we needed this time given all the food and stuff we had taken. > > -then the boat towed us out, until we reached a 4m water depth to pedal a bit. This went ok. We were just intrigued by a tiny high frequency vibration coming from the prop shaft, which was there regardless of rotating speed, but only when pedaling in the forward direction. It was not there during the first dives, and it disappeared the next day. We are wondering whether it came from the water lubricated bearing , or the pressure seal assembly. The length of the prop shaft of over 2m makes it probably prone to resonance. > > -This time we had better navigation instruments, a compass mounted right outside the dome in front of us, on the aluminium dome seat, with quite lower magnetic deviation due to the hull than we feared. Also a diver depth gauge was there, very useful. We were eager to test our imagenex sonar/sounder combo, but could not get it to work for that dive. Will be next time? > > -The sub turned out quite stable, keeping straight when we stop pedaling, but we noticed that having a buoy attached at the front of the sub with a short rope to remain clear of the propeller gave a bit of instability on top of extra drag. Depth control worked well with our 80kg tray on rollers beneath batteries and pilot seat, although we were not aiming for very large swings of depth. We just need to rework a bit the handle so it is more convenient to use, especially when the sub is at large angles. > > -The oxygen consumption turned out lower than we expected. Michael and myself are quite lightweights I should say. We were running at 0.75L/mn for 2 people at rest, it actually went down to 0.5L/mn during the night, with one sleeping. It also shooted up to 2L/mn after I went out for a swim around the sub in cold water to remove our buoy rope from the prop the next day. So feeling warm is really good to lower oxy consumption, and a down jacket, socks, hat and gloves may be worth kgs of sodalime in emergency mode! When pedaling it ranged between 1.25 to 2L/mn, not as high as anticipated, but the pedaling resistance and heart rate remained quite moderate. This brings our ?theoretical? life support autonomy to a whopping 16 days in pedaling mode, and 37 days in rest mode. > > then we went for a tow to a nice diving spot on the other shore of the lake where we would spend the night and find deeper water for the next days dives. The tow was quite choppy, and we occasionally dove a 0.5 to 1 m with dynamic effects, although since the first dives we moved the towing point below the nose tip which improved considerably the behavior under tow. At some point we had to slow down the tow as we noticed that the dome had slightly moved on its seat, under a combination of : effect of slight internal overpressure caused by temperature increase due to sun light in the dome and slight CO2 build up, wave action, occasional UW dips, and primarily because the force on the dome retainer strap was not high enough. > When we arrived at the other shore, we moored, inflated ballasts and delicately removed the dome to check the oring and force on retainer strap. We noticed the oring had a pinch point towards the dome pressure seat, so we cleaned and re-placed it in a way to keep low pressure tightness. We also added 1mm spacer between the dome and retainer strap to increase the strap down force, and ensure a large enough oring compression so the dome rests on its seat with no gap. the general theory says that a gap should not be an issue as when you dive, the force closing the gap should be many times higher than the force pushing the oring in. But here a combination of waves, overpressure etc may have moved a bit the oring in at some point. > We also removed the prop to see if some debris could have caused the subtle vibrations, but could not find any thing. > > -After that we had dinner and landed the sub to spend the night near the shore in less than 2m water depth. Deployed our anchor also to stay put. It worked well. Inside the sub we deployed our bunker bed and tested switching positions between Michael and I. We slept one after the other, so we could check on O2 and CO2 levels. Comfort was not bad, because the bunker bed is really nice, but space is really small inside. We can grab all the controls and isolation valves in case of emergency, but you can t help but feel like trapped inside... During the night we used the red lighting as in real subs, to feel like in the submarine movies, it was really cool! > > -Next day, after a beautiful sun rise seen from underwater, we went for a dive to 10m water depth where we could have space above and below us to really operate the water ballast and trim weight tray on rollers. Thanks to our depth gauge, water circuitry and hand pump we could get in trim within less than 1 kilo, and feel the inertia of piloting moves. It was really good feeling piloting that thing in three dimensions. After the dive we surfaced with our ballast and pedaled we got the rope in our large prop, which led me go out, take a swim to cut it, and shorten the buoy rope as our dive support boat had not arrived and our dive support was on the shore. We ll probably add a duct around our prop... Then before I came back in, some fishermen in another boat came and asked us whether we were fine, they initially thought we were a boat upside down. It was funny seeing their hallucinating faces. > > -we then had our own support boat come over and we went on for a stretch of pedaling at 2m water depth. We could measure our speed at 1.2kt which falls in the ball park we anticipated. We may gain some without a buoy, and once our composite shells are polished, and also with a more stable steering than what we had (the short buoy rope attached to the front of the sub made it difficult to keep a stable course). On the other hand adding a duct around our large prop may decrease our speed. But a duct would also increase a bit the power we can put in at 70rpm, so we might compensate extra drag effect on speed by extra thrust. > > -Over the week end in the sub, we managed to log quite a few hours with our scrubbers. We reckoned we got over 200LCO2 /kg of sodasorb, which is better than the typical figure given by the manufacturer (185LCO2/Kg). The scrubber starts being less efficient indeed at around that amount but we can still manage <1% in the cabin some time after that. On top of that, we have probably extra absorption capacity from our nearly worn scrubbers as we saw it can still run with an exhaust lean in CO2 in parallel or series to our second fresher scrubber. But it is difficult to measure how much we can extend the absorption capacity with this technique. > > regards, > Antoine > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 19 19:18:16 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 23:18:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests In-Reply-To: <9B09AC74-EF79-4CEB-8CA0-FB36C4A3BD97@gmail.com> References: <205241989.5773340.1463656344575.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <915451964.5714137.1463691405731.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <9B09AC74-EF79-4CEB-8CA0-FB36C4A3BD97@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2005413982.6031619.1463699896109.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Yes,I presume Antoine would have done calculations on this,he seems to have done a good job covering all the bases.Alan From: Private via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 9:20 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests Hi Alan, Why would it be harder to pedal with depth? Pressure on the shaft seal? Thanks, Alec On May 19, 2016, at 4:56 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just a few more details Antoine.You were sleeping under the water, are you intending to stay under for the wholejourney or will you be surfacing along the way?What depth will you go down to & what depth will you be travelling at most of the time.It will be harder to pedal the deeper you go obviously. Do you have?a film crew making a documentary of the event, other than your own videoing?August is not far away.Alan From: Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 11:21 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests Yes Alan,we will do that between 5 and 12 of August regards,Antoine On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Excellent report, enjoyed reading it.Do you have an anticipated date to cross the channel?Alan From: Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 9:57 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests Hello psubbers, Last week end wedrove to the same lake as the first to do some more test dives for our littlehuman powered sub. Quite another event rich sequence worth sharing: -The preparation session went ok. We just had another tv crew, which is fine but is?slowed us down, as they often want?you to repeat some moves even when they say they just want to film you do your things. Interviews themselves are really short. -When driving tothe harbour?s launch slope on a bumpy path, we heard a noise a km beforearriving. We found out that our 100kg emergency drop weight had fallen from thesub. Hopefully it only fell 15cm onto the central beam of the trailer, fromwhere it could not go anywhere? The vibrations had moved the release pins, andit also moved apart by a few mm the lower legs of our nose frame, whichnormally closely bound each side of the drop weight and where the release pinsgo. With a few hands we pushed the weight back up in place. Lesson learned: uselonger pins, retighten the frame and add a thread bar to keep the legs of lowerframe close enough together. Also, we should have the drop weight rest on 3 supportpoints (2 pins, 1 ledge), not 4 (2pins, 2 ledges) which will never be fullystable.?-We thenlaunched. It went smoothly as we had done it before and knew exactly where tobring the trailer and its rope extension to have the sub float. We then deflatedthe ballasts to check the trim inside the harbour. This time it was perfect,having captured last time?s 25kg discrepancy in?our reference excel file andrecomputed the lead weight we needed this time given all the food and stuff wehad taken.?-then the boattowed us out, until we reached a 4m water depth to pedal a bit. This went ok.We were just intrigued by a tiny high frequency vibration coming from the propshaft, which was there regardless of rotating speed, but only when pedaling in?the forwarddirection. It was not there during the first dives, and it disappeared the nextday. We are wondering whether it came from the water lubricated bearing , or thepressure seal assembly. The length of the prop shaft of over 2m makes itprobably prone to resonance.?-This time wehad better navigation instruments, a compass mounted right outside the dome infront of us, on the aluminium dome seat, with quite lower magnetic deviationdue to the hull than we feared. Also a diver depth gauge was there, veryuseful. We were eager to test our imagenex sonar/sounder combo, but could notget it to work for that dive. Will be next time??-The sub turnedout quite stable, keeping straight when we stop pedaling, but we noticed that havinga buoy attached at the front of the sub with a short rope to remain clear ofthe propeller gave a bit of instability on top of extra drag. Depth controlworked well with our 80kg tray on rollers beneath batteries and pilot seat,although we were not aiming for very large swings of depth. We just need torework a bit the handle so it is more convenient to use, especially when thesub is at large angles. ?-The oxygenconsumption turned out lower than we expected. Michael and myself are quitelightweights I should say. We were running at 0.75L/mn for 2 people at rest, itactually went down to 0.5L/mn during the night, with one sleeping. It alsoshooted up to 2L/mn after I went out for a swim around the sub in cold water toremove our buoy rope from the prop the next day. So feeling warm is really goodto lower oxy consumption, and a down jacket, socks, hat and gloves may be worthkgs of sodalime in emergency mode! When pedaling it ranged between 1.25 to2L/mn, not as high as anticipated, but the pedaling resistance and heart rate remainedquite moderate. This brings our ?theoretical? life support autonomy to awhopping 16 days in pedaling mode, and 37 days in rest mode.?then we went for a tow to anice diving spot on the other shore of the lake where we would spend the nightand find deeper water for the next days dives. The tow was quite choppy, and weoccasionally dove a 0.5 to 1 m with dynamic effects, although since the firstdives we moved the towing point below the nose tip which improved considerablythe behavior under tow. At some point we had to slow down the tow as we noticedthat the dome had slightly moved on its seat, under a combination of : effectof slight internal overpressure caused by temperature increase due to sun lightin the dome and slight CO2 build up, wave action, occasional UW dips, and primarilybecause the force on the dome retainer strap was not high enough. When we arrivedat the other shore, we moored, inflated ballasts and delicately removed thedome to check the oring and force on retainer strap. We noticed the oring had apinch point towards the dome pressure seat, so we cleaned and re-placed it in away to keep low pressure tightness. We also added 1mm spacer between the domeand retainer strap to increase the strap down force, and ensure a large enoughoring compression so the dome rests on its seat with no gap.?the general?theory says that a gapshould not be an issue as when you dive, the force closing the gap should be many times higherthan the force pushing the oring in. But here a combination of waves,overpressure etc may have moved a bit the oring in at some point.We also removedthe prop to see if some debris could have caused the subtle vibrations, butcould not find any thing. ?-After that wehad dinner and landed the sub to spend the night near the shore in less than 2mwater depth. Deployed our anchor also to stay put. It worked well. Inside thesub we deployed our bunker bed and tested switching positions between Michaeland I. We slept one after the other, so we could check on O2 and CO2 levels. Comfort was not bad,?because the bunker bed is really?nice,?but space is really small inside. We can grab all the controls and isolation valves in case of emergency, but you can t help but feel like trapped inside... During the night we used the red lighting as in real subs, to feel like in the submarine movies, it was really cool!?-Next day, aftera beautiful sun rise seen from underwater, we went for a dive to 10m waterdepth where we could have space above and below us to really operate the waterballast and trim weight tray on rollers. Thanks to our depth gauge, watercircuitry and hand pump we could get in trim within less than 1 kilo, and feel the inertia of piloting moves. It wasreally good feeling piloting that thing in three dimensions. After the dive we surfacedwith our ballast and pedaled we got the rope in our large prop, which led me goout, take a swim to cut it, and shorten the buoy rope as our dive support boathad not arrived and our dive support was on the shore. We ll probably add a duct around our prop... Then before Icame back in, some fishermen in another boat came and asked us whether we werefine, they initially thought we were a boat upside down. It was funny seeingtheir hallucinating faces. ???-wethen had our own support boat come over and we went on for a stretch of pedalingat 2m water depth. We could measure our speed at 1.2kt which falls in the ballpark we anticipated. We may gain some without a buoy, and once our compositeshells are polished, and also with a more stable steering than what we had (theshort buoy rope attached to the front of the sub made it difficult to keep astable course). On the other hand adding a duct around our large prop maydecrease our speed. But a duct would also increase a bit the power we can putin at 70rpm, so we might compensate extra drag effect on speed by extra thrust. -Over the week end in the sub, we managed to log quite a few hours with our scrubbers. We reckoned we got?over 200LCO2 /kg of sodasorb, which is better than the typical figure given by the manufacturer (185LCO2/Kg). The scrubber starts being less efficient indeed at around that amount but we can still manage <1% in the cabin some time after that. On top of that, we have probably extra absorption capacity from our nearly worn scrubbers as we saw it can still run?with an exhaust lean in CO2 in parallel or series to our second fresher scrubber. But it is difficult to measure how much we can extend the absorption capacity with this technique. regards,Antoine _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 19 19:50:10 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 19:50:10 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks so much for the dive report, I really enjoyed reading that. With Snoopy I once had the same exact thing happen to me, with the weight tray dropping onto the trailer as I passed over a speed bump right at the entrance to the lake! It took hours to reload, but what I did forever after was just put a half dozen cable ties where they would prevent the tray from jumping. It worked. Best, Alec > On May 19, 2016, at 5:57 AM, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hello psubbers, > > Last week end we drove to the same lake as the first to do some more test dives for our little human powered sub. Quite another event rich sequence worth sharing: > > -The preparation session went ok. We just had another tv crew, which is fine but is slowed us down, as they often want you to repeat some moves even when they say they just want to film you do your things. Interviews themselves are really short. > > -When driving to the harbour?s launch slope on a bumpy path, we heard a noise a km before arriving. We found out that our 100kg emergency drop weight had fallen from the sub. Hopefully it only fell 15cm onto the central beam of the trailer, from where it could not go anywhere? The vibrations had moved the release pins, and it also moved apart by a few mm the lower legs of our nose frame, which normally closely bound each side of the drop weight and where the release pins go. With a few hands we pushed the weight back up in place. Lesson learned: use longer pins, retighten the frame and add a thread bar to keep the legs of lower frame close enough together. Also, we should have the drop weight rest on 3 support points (2 pins, 1 ledge), not 4 (2pins, 2 ledges) which will never be fully stable. > > -We then launched. It went smoothly as we had done it before and knew exactly where to bring the trailer and its rope extension to have the sub float. > We then deflated the ballasts to check the trim inside the harbour. This time it was perfect, having captured last time?s 25kg discrepancy in our reference excel file and recomputed the lead weight we needed this time given all the food and stuff we had taken. > > -then the boat towed us out, until we reached a 4m water depth to pedal a bit. This went ok. We were just intrigued by a tiny high frequency vibration coming from the prop shaft, which was there regardless of rotating speed, but only when pedaling in the forward direction. It was not there during the first dives, and it disappeared the next day. We are wondering whether it came from the water lubricated bearing , or the pressure seal assembly. The length of the prop shaft of over 2m makes it probably prone to resonance. > > -This time we had better navigation instruments, a compass mounted right outside the dome in front of us, on the aluminium dome seat, with quite lower magnetic deviation due to the hull than we feared. Also a diver depth gauge was there, very useful. We were eager to test our imagenex sonar/sounder combo, but could not get it to work for that dive. Will be next time? > > -The sub turned out quite stable, keeping straight when we stop pedaling, but we noticed that having a buoy attached at the front of the sub with a short rope to remain clear of the propeller gave a bit of instability on top of extra drag. Depth control worked well with our 80kg tray on rollers beneath batteries and pilot seat, although we were not aiming for very large swings of depth. We just need to rework a bit the handle so it is more convenient to use, especially when the sub is at large angles. > > -The oxygen consumption turned out lower than we expected. Michael and myself are quite lightweights I should say. We were running at 0.75L/mn for 2 people at rest, it actually went down to 0.5L/mn during the night, with one sleeping. It also shooted up to 2L/mn after I went out for a swim around the sub in cold water to remove our buoy rope from the prop the next day. So feeling warm is really good to lower oxy consumption, and a down jacket, socks, hat and gloves may be worth kgs of sodalime in emergency mode! When pedaling it ranged between 1.25 to 2L/mn, not as high as anticipated, but the pedaling resistance and heart rate remained quite moderate. This brings our ?theoretical? life support autonomy to a whopping 16 days in pedaling mode, and 37 days in rest mode. > > then we went for a tow to a nice diving spot on the other shore of the lake where we would spend the night and find deeper water for the next days dives. The tow was quite choppy, and we occasionally dove a 0.5 to 1 m with dynamic effects, although since the first dives we moved the towing point below the nose tip which improved considerably the behavior under tow. At some point we had to slow down the tow as we noticed that the dome had slightly moved on its seat, under a combination of : effect of slight internal overpressure caused by temperature increase due to sun light in the dome and slight CO2 build up, wave action, occasional UW dips, and primarily because the force on the dome retainer strap was not high enough. > When we arrived at the other shore, we moored, inflated ballasts and delicately removed the dome to check the oring and force on retainer strap. We noticed the oring had a pinch point towards the dome pressure seat, so we cleaned and re-placed it in a way to keep low pressure tightness. We also added 1mm spacer between the dome and retainer strap to increase the strap down force, and ensure a large enough oring compression so the dome rests on its seat with no gap. the general theory says that a gap should not be an issue as when you dive, the force closing the gap should be many times higher than the force pushing the oring in. But here a combination of waves, overpressure etc may have moved a bit the oring in at some point. > We also removed the prop to see if some debris could have caused the subtle vibrations, but could not find any thing. > > -After that we had dinner and landed the sub to spend the night near the shore in less than 2m water depth. Deployed our anchor also to stay put. It worked well. Inside the sub we deployed our bunker bed and tested switching positions between Michael and I. We slept one after the other, so we could check on O2 and CO2 levels. Comfort was not bad, because the bunker bed is really nice, but space is really small inside. We can grab all the controls and isolation valves in case of emergency, but you can t help but feel like trapped inside... During the night we used the red lighting as in real subs, to feel like in the submarine movies, it was really cool! > > -Next day, after a beautiful sun rise seen from underwater, we went for a dive to 10m water depth where we could have space above and below us to really operate the water ballast and trim weight tray on rollers. Thanks to our depth gauge, water circuitry and hand pump we could get in trim within less than 1 kilo, and feel the inertia of piloting moves. It was really good feeling piloting that thing in three dimensions. After the dive we surfaced with our ballast and pedaled we got the rope in our large prop, which led me go out, take a swim to cut it, and shorten the buoy rope as our dive support boat had not arrived and our dive support was on the shore. We ll probably add a duct around our prop... Then before I came back in, some fishermen in another boat came and asked us whether we were fine, they initially thought we were a boat upside down. It was funny seeing their hallucinating faces. > > -we then had our own support boat come over and we went on for a stretch of pedaling at 2m water depth. We could measure our speed at 1.2kt which falls in the ball park we anticipated. We may gain some without a buoy, and once our composite shells are polished, and also with a more stable steering than what we had (the short buoy rope attached to the front of the sub made it difficult to keep a stable course). On the other hand adding a duct around our large prop may decrease our speed. But a duct would also increase a bit the power we can put in at 70rpm, so we might compensate extra drag effect on speed by extra thrust. > > -Over the week end in the sub, we managed to log quite a few hours with our scrubbers. We reckoned we got over 200LCO2 /kg of sodasorb, which is better than the typical figure given by the manufacturer (185LCO2/Kg). The scrubber starts being less efficient indeed at around that amount but we can still manage <1% in the cabin some time after that. On top of that, we have probably extra absorption capacity from our nearly worn scrubbers as we saw it can still run with an exhaust lean in CO2 in parallel or series to our second fresher scrubber. But it is difficult to measure how much we can extend the absorption capacity with this technique. > > regards, > Antoine > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 20 02:37:59 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 20 May 2016 08:37:59 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests In-Reply-To: <915451964.5714137.1463691405731.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <205241989.5773340.1463656344575.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <915451964.5714137.1463691405731.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, yes we plan to remain a few meters off the seabed all the time as we will take pictures of it. we will go down to around 100m max water depth, 70-80m most of the time. The pedaling resistance should not increase too much with depth with the shaft sealing design we have, according to Paul and Emile (well I hope so). at least on surface the seal make very little friction. We have a movie crew making a documentary film, but right now I have no room for them on the following surface boats. regards, Antoine On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 10:56 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Just a few more details Antoine. > You were sleeping under the water, are you intending to stay under for the > whole > journey or will you be surfacing along the way? > What depth will you go down to & what depth will you be travelling at most > of the time. > It will be harder to pedal the deeper you go obviously. > Do you have a film crew making a documentary of the event, other than your > own videoing? > August is not far away. > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 19, 2016 11:21 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests > > Yes Alan, > we will do that between 5 and 12 of August > > regards, > Antoine > > On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Excellent report, enjoyed reading it. > Do you have an anticipated date to cross the channel? > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 19, 2016 9:57 PM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests > > Hello psubbers, > > Last week end we drove to the same lake as the first to do some more test > dives for our little human powered sub. Quite another event rich sequence > worth sharing: > > -The preparation session went ok. We just had another tv crew, which is > fine but is slowed us down, as they often want you to repeat some moves > even when they say they just want to film you do your things. Interviews > themselves are really short. > > -When driving to the harbour?s launch slope on a bumpy path, we heard a > noise a km before arriving. We found out that our 100kg emergency drop > weight had fallen from the sub. Hopefully it only fell 15cm onto the > central beam of the trailer, from where it could not go anywhere? The > vibrations had moved the release pins, and it also moved apart by a few mm > the lower legs of our nose frame, which normally closely bound each side of > the drop weight and where the release pins go. With a few hands we pushed > the weight back up in place. Lesson learned: use longer pins, retighten the > frame and add a thread bar to keep the legs of lower frame close enough > together. Also, we should have the drop weight rest on 3 support points (2 > pins, 1 ledge), not 4 (2pins, 2 ledges) which will never be fully stable. > > -We then launched. It went smoothly as we had done it before and knew > exactly where to bring the trailer and its rope extension to have the sub > float. > We then deflated the ballasts to check the trim inside the harbour. This > time it was perfect, having captured last time?s 25kg discrepancy in our > reference excel file and recomputed the lead weight we needed this time > given all the food and stuff we had taken. > > -then the boat towed us out, until we reached a 4m water depth to pedal a > bit. This went ok. We were just intrigued by a tiny high frequency > vibration coming from the prop shaft, which was there regardless of > rotating speed, but only when pedaling in the forward direction. It was not > there during the first dives, and it disappeared the next day. We are > wondering whether it came from the water lubricated bearing , or the > pressure seal assembly. The length of the prop shaft of over 2m makes it > probably prone to resonance. > > -This time we had better navigation instruments, a compass mounted right > outside the dome in front of us, on the aluminium dome seat, with quite > lower magnetic deviation due to the hull than we feared. Also a diver depth > gauge was there, very useful. We were eager to test our imagenex > sonar/sounder combo, but could not get it to work for that dive. Will be > next time? > > -The sub turned out quite stable, keeping straight when we stop pedaling, > but we noticed that having a buoy attached at the front of the sub with a > short rope to remain clear of the propeller gave a bit of instability on > top of extra drag. Depth control worked well with our 80kg tray on rollers > beneath batteries and pilot seat, although we were not aiming for very > large swings of depth. We just need to rework a bit the handle so it is > more convenient to use, especially when the sub is at large angles. > > -The oxygen consumption turned out lower than we expected. Michael and > myself are quite lightweights I should say. We were running at 0.75L/mn for > 2 people at rest, it actually went down to 0.5L/mn during the night, with > one sleeping. It also shooted up to 2L/mn after I went out for a swim > around the sub in cold water to remove our buoy rope from the prop the next > day. So feeling warm is really good to lower oxy consumption, and a down > jacket, socks, hat and gloves may be worth kgs of sodalime in emergency > mode! When pedaling it ranged between 1.25 to 2L/mn, not as high as > anticipated, but the pedaling resistance and heart rate remained quite > moderate. This brings our ?theoretical? life support autonomy to a whopping > 16 days in pedaling mode, and 37 days in rest mode. > > then we went for a tow to a nice diving spot on the other shore of the > lake where we would spend the night and find deeper water for the next days > dives. The tow was quite choppy, and we occasionally dove a 0.5 to 1 m with > dynamic effects, although since the first dives we moved the towing point > below the nose tip which improved considerably the behavior under tow. At > some point we had to slow down the tow as we noticed that the dome had > slightly moved on its seat, under a combination of : effect of slight > internal overpressure caused by temperature increase due to sun light in > the dome and slight CO2 build up, wave action, occasional UW dips, and > primarily because the force on the dome retainer strap was not high enough. > When we arrived at the other shore, we moored, inflated ballasts and > delicately removed the dome to check the oring and force on retainer strap. > We noticed the oring had a pinch point towards the dome pressure seat, so > we cleaned and re-placed it in a way to keep low pressure tightness. We > also added 1mm spacer between the dome and retainer strap to increase the > strap down force, and ensure a large enough oring compression so the dome > rests on its seat with no gap. the general theory says that a gap should > not be an issue as when you dive, the force closing the gap should be many > times higher than the force pushing the oring in. But here a combination of > waves, overpressure etc may have moved a bit the oring in at some point. > We also removed the prop to see if some debris could have caused the > subtle vibrations, but could not find any thing. > > -After that we had dinner and landed the sub to spend the night near the > shore in less than 2m water depth. Deployed our anchor also to stay put. It > worked well. Inside the sub we deployed our bunker bed and tested switching > positions between Michael and I. We slept one after the other, so we could > check on O2 and CO2 levels. Comfort was not bad, because the bunker bed is > really nice, but space is really small inside. We can grab all the controls > and isolation valves in case of emergency, but you can t help but feel like > trapped inside... During the night we used the red lighting as in real > subs, to feel like in the submarine movies, it was really cool! > > -Next day, after a beautiful sun rise seen from underwater, we went for a > dive to 10m water depth where we could have space above and below us to > really operate the water ballast and trim weight tray on rollers. Thanks to > our depth gauge, water circuitry and hand pump we could get in trim within > less than 1 kilo, and feel the inertia of piloting moves. It was really > good feeling piloting that thing in three dimensions. After the dive we > surfaced with our ballast and pedaled we got the rope in our large prop, > which led me go out, take a swim to cut it, and shorten the buoy rope as > our dive support boat had not arrived and our dive support was on the > shore. We ll probably add a duct around our prop... Then before I came back > in, some fishermen in another boat came and asked us whether we were fine, > they initially thought we were a boat upside down. It was funny seeing > their hallucinating faces. > > -we then had our own support boat come over and we went on for a > stretch of pedaling at 2m water depth. We could measure our speed at 1.2kt > which falls in the ball park we anticipated. We may gain some without a > buoy, and once our composite shells are polished, and also with a more > stable steering than what we had (the short buoy rope attached to the front > of the sub made it difficult to keep a stable course). On the other hand > adding a duct around our large prop may decrease our speed. But a duct > would also increase a bit the power we can put in at 70rpm, so we might > compensate extra drag effect on speed by extra thrust. > > -Over the week end in the sub, we managed to log quite a few hours with > our scrubbers. We reckoned we got over 200LCO2 /kg of sodasorb, which is > better than the typical figure given by the manufacturer (185LCO2/Kg). The > scrubber starts being less efficient indeed at around that amount but we > can still manage <1% in the cabin some time after that. On top of that, we > have probably extra absorption capacity from our nearly worn scrubbers as > we saw it can still run with an exhaust lean in CO2 in parallel or series > to our second fresher scrubber. But it is difficult to measure how much we > can extend the absorption capacity with this technique. > > regards, > Antoine > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 20 06:19:18 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 20 May 2016 10:19:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests In-Reply-To: References: <205241989.5773340.1463656344575.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <915451964.5714137.1463691405731.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <988850412.6028736.1463739559033.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Antoine,all the best with the preparation. Look forward to the next report.Alan From: Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 6:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests Hi Alan, yes we plan to remain a few meters off the seabed all the time as we will take pictures of it. we will go down to around 100m max water depth, 70-80m most of the time.The pedaling resistance should not increase too much with depth with the shaft sealing design we have, according to Paul and Emile (well I hope so). at least on surface the seal make very little friction.We have a movie crew making a documentary film, but right now I have no room for them on the following surface boats. regards,Antoine On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 10:56 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just a few more details Antoine.You were sleeping under the water, are you intending to stay under for the wholejourney or will you be surfacing along the way?What depth will you go down to & what depth will you be travelling at most of the time.It will be harder to pedal the deeper you go obviously. Do you have?a film crew making a documentary of the event, other than your own videoing?August is not far away.Alan From: Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 11:21 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests Yes Alan,we will do that between 5 and 12 of August regards,Antoine On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Excellent report, enjoyed reading it.Do you have an anticipated date to cross the channel?Alan From: Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 9:57 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests Hello psubbers, Last week end wedrove to the same lake as the first to do some more test dives for our littlehuman powered sub. Quite another event rich sequence worth sharing: -The preparation session went ok. We just had another tv crew, which is fine but is?slowed us down, as they often want?you to repeat some moves even when they say they just want to film you do your things. Interviews themselves are really short. -When driving tothe harbour?s launch slope on a bumpy path, we heard a noise a km beforearriving. We found out that our 100kg emergency drop weight had fallen from thesub. Hopefully it only fell 15cm onto the central beam of the trailer, fromwhere it could not go anywhere? The vibrations had moved the release pins, andit also moved apart by a few mm the lower legs of our nose frame, whichnormally closely bound each side of the drop weight and where the release pinsgo. With a few hands we pushed the weight back up in place. Lesson learned: uselonger pins, retighten the frame and add a thread bar to keep the legs of lowerframe close enough together. Also, we should have the drop weight rest on 3 supportpoints (2 pins, 1 ledge), not 4 (2pins, 2 ledges) which will never be fullystable.?-We thenlaunched. It went smoothly as we had done it before and knew exactly where tobring the trailer and its rope extension to have the sub float. We then deflatedthe ballasts to check the trim inside the harbour. This time it was perfect,having captured last time?s 25kg discrepancy in?our reference excel file andrecomputed the lead weight we needed this time given all the food and stuff wehad taken.?-then the boattowed us out, until we reached a 4m water depth to pedal a bit. This went ok.We were just intrigued by a tiny high frequency vibration coming from the propshaft, which was there regardless of rotating speed, but only when pedaling in?the forwarddirection. It was not there during the first dives, and it disappeared the nextday. We are wondering whether it came from the water lubricated bearing , or thepressure seal assembly. The length of the prop shaft of over 2m makes itprobably prone to resonance.?-This time wehad better navigation instruments, a compass mounted right outside the dome infront of us, on the aluminium dome seat, with quite lower magnetic deviationdue to the hull than we feared. Also a diver depth gauge was there, veryuseful. We were eager to test our imagenex sonar/sounder combo, but could notget it to work for that dive. Will be next time??-The sub turnedout quite stable, keeping straight when we stop pedaling, but we noticed that havinga buoy attached at the front of the sub with a short rope to remain clear ofthe propeller gave a bit of instability on top of extra drag. Depth controlworked well with our 80kg tray on rollers beneath batteries and pilot seat,although we were not aiming for very large swings of depth. We just need torework a bit the handle so it is more convenient to use, especially when thesub is at large angles. ?-The oxygenconsumption turned out lower than we expected. Michael and myself are quitelightweights I should say. We were running at 0.75L/mn for 2 people at rest, itactually went down to 0.5L/mn during the night, with one sleeping. It alsoshooted up to 2L/mn after I went out for a swim around the sub in cold water toremove our buoy rope from the prop the next day. So feeling warm is really goodto lower oxy consumption, and a down jacket, socks, hat and gloves may be worthkgs of sodalime in emergency mode! When pedaling it ranged between 1.25 to2L/mn, not as high as anticipated, but the pedaling resistance and heart rate remainedquite moderate. This brings our ?theoretical? life support autonomy to awhopping 16 days in pedaling mode, and 37 days in rest mode.?then we went for a tow to anice diving spot on the other shore of the lake where we would spend the nightand find deeper water for the next days dives. The tow was quite choppy, and weoccasionally dove a 0.5 to 1 m with dynamic effects, although since the firstdives we moved the towing point below the nose tip which improved considerablythe behavior under tow. At some point we had to slow down the tow as we noticedthat the dome had slightly moved on its seat, under a combination of : effectof slight internal overpressure caused by temperature increase due to sun lightin the dome and slight CO2 build up, wave action, occasional UW dips, and primarilybecause the force on the dome retainer strap was not high enough. When we arrivedat the other shore, we moored, inflated ballasts and delicately removed thedome to check the oring and force on retainer strap. We noticed the oring had apinch point towards the dome pressure seat, so we cleaned and re-placed it in away to keep low pressure tightness. We also added 1mm spacer between the domeand retainer strap to increase the strap down force, and ensure a large enoughoring compression so the dome rests on its seat with no gap.?the general?theory says that a gapshould not be an issue as when you dive, the force closing the gap should be many times higherthan the force pushing the oring in. But here a combination of waves,overpressure etc may have moved a bit the oring in at some point.We also removedthe prop to see if some debris could have caused the subtle vibrations, butcould not find any thing. ?-After that wehad dinner and landed the sub to spend the night near the shore in less than 2mwater depth. Deployed our anchor also to stay put. It worked well. Inside thesub we deployed our bunker bed and tested switching positions between Michaeland I. We slept one after the other, so we could check on O2 and CO2 levels. Comfort was not bad,?because the bunker bed is really?nice,?but space is really small inside. We can grab all the controls and isolation valves in case of emergency, but you can t help but feel like trapped inside... During the night we used the red lighting as in real subs, to feel like in the submarine movies, it was really cool!?-Next day, aftera beautiful sun rise seen from underwater, we went for a dive to 10m waterdepth where we could have space above and below us to really operate the waterballast and trim weight tray on rollers. Thanks to our depth gauge, watercircuitry and hand pump we could get in trim within less than 1 kilo, and feel the inertia of piloting moves. It wasreally good feeling piloting that thing in three dimensions. After the dive we surfacedwith our ballast and pedaled we got the rope in our large prop, which led me goout, take a swim to cut it, and shorten the buoy rope as our dive support boathad not arrived and our dive support was on the shore. We ll probably add a duct around our prop... Then before Icame back in, some fishermen in another boat came and asked us whether we werefine, they initially thought we were a boat upside down. It was funny seeingtheir hallucinating faces. ???-wethen had our own support boat come over and we went on for a stretch of pedalingat 2m water depth. We could measure our speed at 1.2kt which falls in the ballpark we anticipated. We may gain some without a buoy, and once our compositeshells are polished, and also with a more stable steering than what we had (theshort buoy rope attached to the front of the sub made it difficult to keep astable course). On the other hand adding a duct around our large prop maydecrease our speed. But a duct would also increase a bit the power we can putin at 70rpm, so we might compensate extra drag effect on speed by extra thrust. -Over the week end in the sub, we managed to log quite a few hours with our scrubbers. We reckoned we got?over 200LCO2 /kg of sodasorb, which is better than the typical figure given by the manufacturer (185LCO2/Kg). The scrubber starts being less efficient indeed at around that amount but we can still manage <1% in the cabin some time after that. On top of that, we have probably extra absorption capacity from our nearly worn scrubbers as we saw it can still run?with an exhaust lean in CO2 in parallel or series to our second fresher scrubber. But it is difficult to measure how much we can extend the absorption capacity with this technique. regards,Antoine _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 21 18:35:02 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 22:35:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] heat treatment References: <558938599.340333.1463870102081.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <558938599.340333.1463870102081.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi all,I am making a part for Elementary 3000 and it is being machined from a left over port ring (3 inch thick). ?I had a tough time machining the surfaces that were flame cut from the other ring I machined. ?I am thinking about heating it in an enclosure with a tiger torch to take the temper out of the surfaces that need to be machined. ?Will this work and what temp should I take the part to. ?The part will be non structural when completed.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 21 19:52:57 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 17:52:57 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] heat treatment In-Reply-To: <558938599.340333.1463870102081.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <558938599.340333.1463870102081.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <558938599.340333.1463870102081.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <961035e5-d323-4910-9acd-e49a56b7d396@email.android.com> Hank, what is the material? What you are talking about is annealing, which requires that you bring the temperature above the recrystallization temperature of the material (or if you don't have that, 0.4 x the melting temperature) and hold for long enough for the recrystallization to occur. You want to bring the temperature up slowly if at all possible, keeping even temperature throughout the part during ramp up, hold for a good hour, and then cool in air just as slowly. A tiger torch doesn't sound like the best way, unless you were to build an oven of sorts out of bricks and use the torch to heat it internally, instead of heating the part directly. Sean On May 21, 2016 4:35:02 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi all,I am making a part for Elementary 3000 and it is being machined >from a left over port ring (3 inch thick). ?I had a tough time >machining the surfaces that were flame cut from the other ring I >machined. ?I am thinking about heating it in an enclosure with a tiger >torch to take the temper out of the surfaces that need to be machined. >?Will this work and what temp should I take the part to. ?The part will >be non structural when completed.Hank > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 21 21:22:40 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 01:22:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] heat treatment In-Reply-To: <961035e5-d323-4910-9acd-e49a56b7d396@email.android.com> References: <558938599.340333.1463870102081.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <558938599.340333.1463870102081.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <961035e5-d323-4910-9acd-e49a56b7d396@email.android.com> Message-ID: <306322427.346222.1463880160525.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Sean, thank you, that is great!The material is 516-70 it is an extra window frame that is left over. ?I was planning to heat it in an inclosure like an oven with the tiger torch. ??Hank On Saturday, May 21, 2016 5:52 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, what is the material? What you are talking about is annealing, which requires that you bring the temperature above the recrystallization temperature of the material (or if you don't have that, 0.4 x the melting temperature) and hold for long enough for the recrystallization to occur.? You want to bring the temperature up slowly if at all possible, keeping even temperature throughout the part during ramp up, hold for a good hour, and then cool in air just as slowly. A tiger torch doesn't sound like the best way, unless you were to build an oven of sorts out of bricks and use the torch to heat it internally, instead of heating the part directly.Sean On May 21, 2016 4:35:02 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all,I am making a part for Elementary 3000 and it is being machined from a left over port ring (3 inch thick). ?I had a tough time machining the surfaces that were flame cut from the other ring I machined. ?I am thinking about heating it in an enclosure with a tiger torch to take the temper out of the surfaces that need to be machined. ?Will this work and what temp should I take the part to. ?The part will be non structural when completed.Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.! org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 22 07:21:17 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 11:21:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests In-Reply-To: References: <205241989.5773340.1463656344575.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1069041387.511424.1463916077878.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Antoine,as?you will be side on to the current most of the time, & following the contour of the sea bed in possible poor visibility conditions,? what is your contingency plan if?you are pinned sideways against a vertical obstruction?Alan From: Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 11:21 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests Yes Alan,we will do that between 5 and 12 of August regards,Antoine On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Excellent report, enjoyed reading it.Do you have an anticipated date to cross the channel?Alan From: Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 9:57 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests Hello psubbers, Last week end wedrove to the same lake as the first to do some more test dives for our littlehuman powered sub. Quite another event rich sequence worth sharing: -The preparation session went ok. We just had another tv crew, which is fine but is?slowed us down, as they often want?you to repeat some moves even when they say they just want to film you do your things. Interviews themselves are really short. -When driving tothe harbour?s launch slope on a bumpy path, we heard a noise a km beforearriving. We found out that our 100kg emergency drop weight had fallen from thesub. Hopefully it only fell 15cm onto the central beam of the trailer, fromwhere it could not go anywhere? The vibrations had moved the release pins, andit also moved apart by a few mm the lower legs of our nose frame, whichnormally closely bound each side of the drop weight and where the release pinsgo. With a few hands we pushed the weight back up in place. Lesson learned: uselonger pins, retighten the frame and add a thread bar to keep the legs of lowerframe close enough together. Also, we should have the drop weight rest on 3 supportpoints (2 pins, 1 ledge), not 4 (2pins, 2 ledges) which will never be fullystable.?-We thenlaunched. It went smoothly as we had done it before and knew exactly where tobring the trailer and its rope extension to have the sub float. We then deflatedthe ballasts to check the trim inside the harbour. This time it was perfect,having captured last time?s 25kg discrepancy in?our reference excel file andrecomputed the lead weight we needed this time given all the food and stuff wehad taken.?-then the boattowed us out, until we reached a 4m water depth to pedal a bit. This went ok.We were just intrigued by a tiny high frequency vibration coming from the propshaft, which was there regardless of rotating speed, but only when pedaling in?the forwarddirection. It was not there during the first dives, and it disappeared the nextday. We are wondering whether it came from the water lubricated bearing , or thepressure seal assembly. The length of the prop shaft of over 2m makes itprobably prone to resonance.?-This time wehad better navigation instruments, a compass mounted right outside the dome infront of us, on the aluminium dome seat, with quite lower magnetic deviationdue to the hull than we feared. Also a diver depth gauge was there, veryuseful. We were eager to test our imagenex sonar/sounder combo, but could notget it to work for that dive. Will be next time??-The sub turnedout quite stable, keeping straight when we stop pedaling, but we noticed that havinga buoy attached at the front of the sub with a short rope to remain clear ofthe propeller gave a bit of instability on top of extra drag. Depth controlworked well with our 80kg tray on rollers beneath batteries and pilot seat,although we were not aiming for very large swings of depth. We just need torework a bit the handle so it is more convenient to use, especially when thesub is at large angles. ?-The oxygenconsumption turned out lower than we expected. Michael and myself are quitelightweights I should say. We were running at 0.75L/mn for 2 people at rest, itactually went down to 0.5L/mn during the night, with one sleeping. It alsoshooted up to 2L/mn after I went out for a swim around the sub in cold water toremove our buoy rope from the prop the next day. So feeling warm is really goodto lower oxy consumption, and a down jacket, socks, hat and gloves may be worthkgs of sodalime in emergency mode! When pedaling it ranged between 1.25 to2L/mn, not as high as anticipated, but the pedaling resistance and heart rate remainedquite moderate. This brings our ?theoretical? life support autonomy to awhopping 16 days in pedaling mode, and 37 days in rest mode.?then we went for a tow to anice diving spot on the other shore of the lake where we would spend the nightand find deeper water for the next days dives. The tow was quite choppy, and weoccasionally dove a 0.5 to 1 m with dynamic effects, although since the firstdives we moved the towing point below the nose tip which improved considerablythe behavior under tow. At some point we had to slow down the tow as we noticedthat the dome had slightly moved on its seat, under a combination of : effectof slight internal overpressure caused by temperature increase due to sun lightin the dome and slight CO2 build up, wave action, occasional UW dips, and primarilybecause the force on the dome retainer strap was not high enough. When we arrivedat the other shore, we moored, inflated ballasts and delicately removed thedome to check the oring and force on retainer strap. We noticed the oring had apinch point towards the dome pressure seat, so we cleaned and re-placed it in away to keep low pressure tightness. We also added 1mm spacer between the domeand retainer strap to increase the strap down force, and ensure a large enoughoring compression so the dome rests on its seat with no gap.?the general?theory says that a gapshould not be an issue as when you dive, the force closing the gap should be many times higherthan the force pushing the oring in. But here a combination of waves,overpressure etc may have moved a bit the oring in at some point.We also removedthe prop to see if some debris could have caused the subtle vibrations, butcould not find any thing. ?-After that wehad dinner and landed the sub to spend the night near the shore in less than 2mwater depth. Deployed our anchor also to stay put. It worked well. Inside thesub we deployed our bunker bed and tested switching positions between Michaeland I. We slept one after the other, so we could check on O2 and CO2 levels. Comfort was not bad,?because the bunker bed is really?nice,?but space is really small inside. We can grab all the controls and isolation valves in case of emergency, but you can t help but feel like trapped inside... During the night we used the red lighting as in real subs, to feel like in the submarine movies, it was really cool!?-Next day, aftera beautiful sun rise seen from underwater, we went for a dive to 10m waterdepth where we could have space above and below us to really operate the waterballast and trim weight tray on rollers. Thanks to our depth gauge, watercircuitry and hand pump we could get in trim within less than 1 kilo, and feel the inertia of piloting moves. It wasreally good feeling piloting that thing in three dimensions. After the dive we surfacedwith our ballast and pedaled we got the rope in our large prop, which led me goout, take a swim to cut it, and shorten the buoy rope as our dive support boathad not arrived and our dive support was on the shore. We ll probably add a duct around our prop... Then before Icame back in, some fishermen in another boat came and asked us whether we werefine, they initially thought we were a boat upside down. It was funny seeingtheir hallucinating faces. ???-wethen had our own support boat come over and we went on for a stretch of pedalingat 2m water depth. We could measure our speed at 1.2kt which falls in the ballpark we anticipated. We may gain some without a buoy, and once our compositeshells are polished, and also with a more stable steering than what we had (theshort buoy rope attached to the front of the sub made it difficult to keep astable course). On the other hand adding a duct around our large prop maydecrease our speed. But a duct would also increase a bit the power we can putin at 70rpm, so we might compensate extra drag effect on speed by extra thrust. -Over the week end in the sub, we managed to log quite a few hours with our scrubbers. We reckoned we got?over 200LCO2 /kg of sodasorb, which is better than the typical figure given by the manufacturer (185LCO2/Kg). The scrubber starts being less efficient indeed at around that amount but we can still manage <1% in the cabin some time after that. On top of that, we have probably extra absorption capacity from our nearly worn scrubbers as we saw it can still run?with an exhaust lean in CO2 in parallel or series to our second fresher scrubber. But it is difficult to measure how much we can extend the absorption capacity with this technique. regards,Antoine _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 22 11:25:45 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 15:25:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] lapping process References: <63152552.464175.1463930745745.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <63152552.464175.1463930745745.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi all,I am building a rig to rotate my hatch on Elementary 3000 to lap the seat to perfection. ?I am doing this because I am in need of low cost projects and I want to see if it works for future deeper diving subs. ?I have little experience with lapping other than lapping valves in antique engines. ?Can I just let the hatch float on the compound ?while it is rotating with the full weight of the hatch bearing down on the seat, or do I need to suspend the hatch while it rotates to control the weight of the hatch on the seat. ?I will be re-maching the centre hole of the hatch because the centre hole is no longer dead centre from repeated machining processes. ? The centre hole will hold a shaft with bearings to keep it rotating true.Any advice will be helpful.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 22 11:53:48 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 08:53:48 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] progress Message-ID: <20160522085348.CF990672@m0087793.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 22 12:17:53 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 16:17:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] progress In-Reply-To: <20160522085348.CF990672@m0087793.ppops.net> References: <20160522085348.CF990672@m0087793.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1930889980.469704.1463933873576.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Brian,Looking good! ?it is pretty roomy the sphere. ?You may want a platform around the CT to stand on, but that will evolve.Hank On Sunday, May 22, 2016 9:54 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,?? Here's a little video of some of my progress , things are not going too fast right now.? After the wedding ( my daughter)?I should be able to get going again.?http://www.ojaivalleybeefarm.com/??Cheers,?Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 22 12:49:41 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 09:49:41 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] progress In-Reply-To: <20160522085348.CF990672@m0087793.ppops.net> References: <20160522085348.CF990672@m0087793.ppops.net> Message-ID: <001901d1b449$f05af480$d110dd80$@telus.net> Very nice, Brian. Sounds like the leak repairs are going well. The manned sphere seems to have loads of room for two or three occupants. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 8:54 AM To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] progress Hi All, Here's a little video of some of my progress , things are not going too fast right now. After the wedding ( my daughter) I should be able to get going again. http://www.ojaivalleybeefarm.com/ Cheers, Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 22 13:03:59 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 10:03:59 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] progress Message-ID: <20160522100359.E7609AAE@m0087798.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 22 17:08:19 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 17:08:19 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] progress In-Reply-To: <20160522085348.CF990672@m0087793.ppops.net> References: <20160522085348.CF990672@m0087793.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi Brian, That sphere looks cavernous compared to my little boat! Hey may I ask something extremely pedestrian? I'm looking for exactly the sort of rubber traction pad you have on the top of the cylinder, appearing at 2:15 - do you happen to have a source for that? One would think it the easiest thing in the world to locate, but I haven't found one yet that is just right and yours appears to be it. Thanks, Alec On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 11:53 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, Here's a little video of some of my progress , things are not > going too fast right now. After the wedding ( my daughter) I should be > able to get going again. > > http://www.ojaivalleybeefarm.com/ > > > Cheers, > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 22 17:13:20 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 23:13:20 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests In-Reply-To: <1069041387.511424.1463916077878.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <205241989.5773340.1463656344575.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1069041387.511424.1463916077878.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, good question. We have a scanning sonar at least 180? sector, so we should see things coming, even from the sides. ln case we get pined sideways, we can inflate ballast at last minute. or wait a few hours for tides to reverse... if we have more time and want to avoid uncontrolled ascent we could also land with the anchor and VBT. we have bow thruster too but not as reactive. Last resort, a professional diver has been contacted; he ll have plenty of time to come and get us free. regards, Antoine On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 1:21 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Antoine, > as you will be side on to the current most of the time, & following the > contour of the sea bed in possible poor visibility conditions, what is > your contingency plan > if you are pinned sideways against a vertical obstruction? > Alan > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 19, 2016 11:21 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests > > Yes Alan, > we will do that between 5 and 12 of August > > regards, > Antoine > > On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Excellent report, enjoyed reading it. > Do you have an anticipated date to cross the channel? > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 19, 2016 9:57 PM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests > > Hello psubbers, > > Last week end we drove to the same lake as the first to do some more test > dives for our little human powered sub. Quite another event rich sequence > worth sharing: > > -The preparation session went ok. We just had another tv crew, which is > fine but is slowed us down, as they often want you to repeat some moves > even when they say they just want to film you do your things. Interviews > themselves are really short. > > -When driving to the harbour?s launch slope on a bumpy path, we heard a > noise a km before arriving. We found out that our 100kg emergency drop > weight had fallen from the sub. Hopefully it only fell 15cm onto the > central beam of the trailer, from where it could not go anywhere? The > vibrations had moved the release pins, and it also moved apart by a few mm > the lower legs of our nose frame, which normally closely bound each side of > the drop weight and where the release pins go. With a few hands we pushed > the weight back up in place. Lesson learned: use longer pins, retighten the > frame and add a thread bar to keep the legs of lower frame close enough > together. Also, we should have the drop weight rest on 3 support points (2 > pins, 1 ledge), not 4 (2pins, 2 ledges) which will never be fully stable. > > -We then launched. It went smoothly as we had done it before and knew > exactly where to bring the trailer and its rope extension to have the sub > float. > We then deflated the ballasts to check the trim inside the harbour. This > time it was perfect, having captured last time?s 25kg discrepancy in our > reference excel file and recomputed the lead weight we needed this time > given all the food and stuff we had taken. > > -then the boat towed us out, until we reached a 4m water depth to pedal a > bit. This went ok. We were just intrigued by a tiny high frequency > vibration coming from the prop shaft, which was there regardless of > rotating speed, but only when pedaling in the forward direction. It was not > there during the first dives, and it disappeared the next day. We are > wondering whether it came from the water lubricated bearing , or the > pressure seal assembly. The length of the prop shaft of over 2m makes it > probably prone to resonance. > > -This time we had better navigation instruments, a compass mounted right > outside the dome in front of us, on the aluminium dome seat, with quite > lower magnetic deviation due to the hull than we feared. Also a diver depth > gauge was there, very useful. We were eager to test our imagenex > sonar/sounder combo, but could not get it to work for that dive. Will be > next time? > > -The sub turned out quite stable, keeping straight when we stop pedaling, > but we noticed that having a buoy attached at the front of the sub with a > short rope to remain clear of the propeller gave a bit of instability on > top of extra drag. Depth control worked well with our 80kg tray on rollers > beneath batteries and pilot seat, although we were not aiming for very > large swings of depth. We just need to rework a bit the handle so it is > more convenient to use, especially when the sub is at large angles. > > -The oxygen consumption turned out lower than we expected. Michael and > myself are quite lightweights I should say. We were running at 0.75L/mn for > 2 people at rest, it actually went down to 0.5L/mn during the night, with > one sleeping. It also shooted up to 2L/mn after I went out for a swim > around the sub in cold water to remove our buoy rope from the prop the next > day. So feeling warm is really good to lower oxy consumption, and a down > jacket, socks, hat and gloves may be worth kgs of sodalime in emergency > mode! When pedaling it ranged between 1.25 to 2L/mn, not as high as > anticipated, but the pedaling resistance and heart rate remained quite > moderate. This brings our ?theoretical? life support autonomy to a whopping > 16 days in pedaling mode, and 37 days in rest mode. > > then we went for a tow to a nice diving spot on the other shore of the > lake where we would spend the night and find deeper water for the next days > dives. The tow was quite choppy, and we occasionally dove a 0.5 to 1 m with > dynamic effects, although since the first dives we moved the towing point > below the nose tip which improved considerably the behavior under tow. At > some point we had to slow down the tow as we noticed that the dome had > slightly moved on its seat, under a combination of : effect of slight > internal overpressure caused by temperature increase due to sun light in > the dome and slight CO2 build up, wave action, occasional UW dips, and > primarily because the force on the dome retainer strap was not high enough. > When we arrived at the other shore, we moored, inflated ballasts and > delicately removed the dome to check the oring and force on retainer strap. > We noticed the oring had a pinch point towards the dome pressure seat, so > we cleaned and re-placed it in a way to keep low pressure tightness. We > also added 1mm spacer between the dome and retainer strap to increase the > strap down force, and ensure a large enough oring compression so the dome > rests on its seat with no gap. the general theory says that a gap should > not be an issue as when you dive, the force closing the gap should be many > times higher than the force pushing the oring in. But here a combination of > waves, overpressure etc may have moved a bit the oring in at some point. > We also removed the prop to see if some debris could have caused the > subtle vibrations, but could not find any thing. > > -After that we had dinner and landed the sub to spend the night near the > shore in less than 2m water depth. Deployed our anchor also to stay put. It > worked well. Inside the sub we deployed our bunker bed and tested switching > positions between Michael and I. We slept one after the other, so we could > check on O2 and CO2 levels. Comfort was not bad, because the bunker bed is > really nice, but space is really small inside. We can grab all the controls > and isolation valves in case of emergency, but you can t help but feel like > trapped inside... During the night we used the red lighting as in real > subs, to feel like in the submarine movies, it was really cool! > > -Next day, after a beautiful sun rise seen from underwater, we went for a > dive to 10m water depth where we could have space above and below us to > really operate the water ballast and trim weight tray on rollers. Thanks to > our depth gauge, water circuitry and hand pump we could get in trim within > less than 1 kilo, and feel the inertia of piloting moves. It was really > good feeling piloting that thing in three dimensions. After the dive we > surfaced with our ballast and pedaled we got the rope in our large prop, > which led me go out, take a swim to cut it, and shorten the buoy rope as > our dive support boat had not arrived and our dive support was on the > shore. We ll probably add a duct around our prop... Then before I came back > in, some fishermen in another boat came and asked us whether we were fine, > they initially thought we were a boat upside down. It was funny seeing > their hallucinating faces. > > -we then had our own support boat come over and we went on for a > stretch of pedaling at 2m water depth. We could measure our speed at 1.2kt > which falls in the ball park we anticipated. We may gain some without a > buoy, and once our composite shells are polished, and also with a more > stable steering than what we had (the short buoy rope attached to the front > of the sub made it difficult to keep a stable course). On the other hand > adding a duct around our large prop may decrease our speed. But a duct > would also increase a bit the power we can put in at 70rpm, so we might > compensate extra drag effect on speed by extra thrust. > > -Over the week end in the sub, we managed to log quite a few hours with > our scrubbers. We reckoned we got over 200LCO2 /kg of sodasorb, which is > better than the typical figure given by the manufacturer (185LCO2/Kg). The > scrubber starts being less efficient indeed at around that amount but we > can still manage <1% in the cabin some time after that. On top of that, we > have probably extra absorption capacity from our nearly worn scrubbers as > we saw it can still run with an exhaust lean in CO2 in parallel or series > to our second fresher scrubber. But it is difficult to measure how much we > can extend the absorption capacity with this technique. > > regards, > Antoine > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 22 17:38:02 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 21:38:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests In-Reply-To: References: <205241989.5773340.1463656344575.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1069041387.511424.1463916077878.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <992101064.696295.1463953082192.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Antoine,just had a look on line & there are thousands of wrecks in the English Channel to avoid,or at least approach from down current.http://i.imgur.com/23WgO5H.jpgWhat about having a small rov top side that could video some of your dive & attach a ropeif necessary. Surely there would be a rov company that would like the free advertising?Cheers Alan From: Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 9:13 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests Hi Alan, good question. We have a scanning sonar at least 180? sector, so we should see things coming, even from the sides.?ln case we get pined sideways, we can inflate ballast at last minute. or wait a few hours for tides to reverse...if we have more time and want to avoid uncontrolled ascent we could also land with the anchor and VBT.we have bow thruster too but not as reactive.Last resort, a professional diver has been contacted; he ll have plenty of time to come and get us free. regards,Antoine On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 1:21 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Antoine,as?you will be side on to the current most of the time, & following the contour of the sea bed in possible poor visibility conditions,? what is your contingency plan if?you are pinned sideways against a vertical obstruction?Alan From: Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 11:21 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests Yes Alan,we will do that between 5 and 12 of August regards,Antoine On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Excellent report, enjoyed reading it.Do you have an anticipated date to cross the channel?Alan From: Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 9:57 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests Hello psubbers, Last week end wedrove to the same lake as the first to do some more test dives for our littlehuman powered sub. Quite another event rich sequence worth sharing: -The preparation session went ok. We just had another tv crew, which is fine but is?slowed us down, as they often want?you to repeat some moves even when they say they just want to film you do your things. Interviews themselves are really short. -When driving tothe harbour?s launch slope on a bumpy path, we heard a noise a km beforearriving. We found out that our 100kg emergency drop weight had fallen from thesub. Hopefully it only fell 15cm onto the central beam of the trailer, fromwhere it could not go anywhere? The vibrations had moved the release pins, andit also moved apart by a few mm the lower legs of our nose frame, whichnormally closely bound each side of the drop weight and where the release pinsgo. With a few hands we pushed the weight back up in place. Lesson learned: uselonger pins, retighten the frame and add a thread bar to keep the legs of lowerframe close enough together. Also, we should have the drop weight rest on 3 supportpoints (2 pins, 1 ledge), not 4 (2pins, 2 ledges) which will never be fullystable.?-We thenlaunched. It went smoothly as we had done it before and knew exactly where tobring the trailer and its rope extension to have the sub float. We then deflatedthe ballasts to check the trim inside the harbour. This time it was perfect,having captured last time?s 25kg discrepancy in?our reference excel file andrecomputed the lead weight we needed this time given all the food and stuff wehad taken.?-then the boattowed us out, until we reached a 4m water depth to pedal a bit. This went ok.We were just intrigued by a tiny high frequency vibration coming from the propshaft, which was there regardless of rotating speed, but only when pedaling in?the forwarddirection. It was not there during the first dives, and it disappeared the nextday. We are wondering whether it came from the water lubricated bearing , or thepressure seal assembly. The length of the prop shaft of over 2m makes itprobably prone to resonance.?-This time wehad better navigation instruments, a compass mounted right outside the dome infront of us, on the aluminium dome seat, with quite lower magnetic deviationdue to the hull than we feared. Also a diver depth gauge was there, veryuseful. We were eager to test our imagenex sonar/sounder combo, but could notget it to work for that dive. Will be next time??-The sub turnedout quite stable, keeping straight when we stop pedaling, but we noticed that havinga buoy attached at the front of the sub with a short rope to remain clear ofthe propeller gave a bit of instability on top of extra drag. Depth controlworked well with our 80kg tray on rollers beneath batteries and pilot seat,although we were not aiming for very large swings of depth. We just need torework a bit the handle so it is more convenient to use, especially when thesub is at large angles. ?-The oxygenconsumption turned out lower than we expected. Michael and myself are quitelightweights I should say. We were running at 0.75L/mn for 2 people at rest, itactually went down to 0.5L/mn during the night, with one sleeping. It alsoshooted up to 2L/mn after I went out for a swim around the sub in cold water toremove our buoy rope from the prop the next day. So feeling warm is really goodto lower oxy consumption, and a down jacket, socks, hat and gloves may be worthkgs of sodalime in emergency mode! When pedaling it ranged between 1.25 to2L/mn, not as high as anticipated, but the pedaling resistance and heart rate remainedquite moderate. This brings our ?theoretical? life support autonomy to awhopping 16 days in pedaling mode, and 37 days in rest mode.?then we went for a tow to anice diving spot on the other shore of the lake where we would spend the nightand find deeper water for the next days dives. The tow was quite choppy, and weoccasionally dove a 0.5 to 1 m with dynamic effects, although since the firstdives we moved the towing point below the nose tip which improved considerablythe behavior under tow. At some point we had to slow down the tow as we noticedthat the dome had slightly moved on its seat, under a combination of : effectof slight internal overpressure caused by temperature increase due to sun lightin the dome and slight CO2 build up, wave action, occasional UW dips, and primarilybecause the force on the dome retainer strap was not high enough. When we arrivedat the other shore, we moored, inflated ballasts and delicately removed thedome to check the oring and force on retainer strap. We noticed the oring had apinch point towards the dome pressure seat, so we cleaned and re-placed it in away to keep low pressure tightness. We also added 1mm spacer between the domeand retainer strap to increase the strap down force, and ensure a large enoughoring compression so the dome rests on its seat with no gap.?the general?theory says that a gapshould not be an issue as when you dive, the force closing the gap should be many times higherthan the force pushing the oring in. But here a combination of waves,overpressure etc may have moved a bit the oring in at some point.We also removedthe prop to see if some debris could have caused the subtle vibrations, butcould not find any thing. ?-After that wehad dinner and landed the sub to spend the night near the shore in less than 2mwater depth. Deployed our anchor also to stay put. It worked well. Inside thesub we deployed our bunker bed and tested switching positions between Michaeland I. We slept one after the other, so we could check on O2 and CO2 levels. Comfort was not bad,?because the bunker bed is really?nice,?but space is really small inside. We can grab all the controls and isolation valves in case of emergency, but you can t help but feel like trapped inside... During the night we used the red lighting as in real subs, to feel like in the submarine movies, it was really cool!?-Next day, aftera beautiful sun rise seen from underwater, we went for a dive to 10m waterdepth where we could have space above and below us to really operate the waterballast and trim weight tray on rollers. Thanks to our depth gauge, watercircuitry and hand pump we could get in trim within less than 1 kilo, and feel the inertia of piloting moves. It wasreally good feeling piloting that thing in three dimensions. After the dive we surfacedwith our ballast and pedaled we got the rope in our large prop, which led me goout, take a swim to cut it, and shorten the buoy rope as our dive support boathad not arrived and our dive support was on the shore. We ll probably add a duct around our prop... Then before Icame back in, some fishermen in another boat came and asked us whether we werefine, they initially thought we were a boat upside down. It was funny seeingtheir hallucinating faces. ???-wethen had our own support boat come over and we went on for a stretch of pedalingat 2m water depth. We could measure our speed at 1.2kt which falls in the ballpark we anticipated. We may gain some without a buoy, and once our compositeshells are polished, and also with a more stable steering than what we had (theshort buoy rope attached to the front of the sub made it difficult to keep astable course). On the other hand adding a duct around our large prop maydecrease our speed. But a duct would also increase a bit the power we can putin at 70rpm, so we might compensate extra drag effect on speed by extra thrust. -Over the week end in the sub, we managed to log quite a few hours with our scrubbers. We reckoned we got?over 200LCO2 /kg of sodasorb, which is better than the typical figure given by the manufacturer (185LCO2/Kg). The scrubber starts being less efficient indeed at around that amount but we can still manage <1% in the cabin some time after that. On top of that, we have probably extra absorption capacity from our nearly worn scrubbers as we saw it can still run?with an exhaust lean in CO2 in parallel or series to our second fresher scrubber. But it is difficult to measure how much we can extend the absorption capacity with this technique. regards,Antoine _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 22 18:55:04 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 15:55:04 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] progress Message-ID: <20160522155504.D256C11B@m0087796.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 22 19:49:32 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 01:49:32 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests In-Reply-To: <992101064.696295.1463953082192.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <205241989.5773340.1463656344575.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1069041387.511424.1463916077878.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <992101064.696295.1463953082192.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: nice map, Had not seen it. Did my own painfully gathering several databases... Lots of wreck, but the see is big too. At some point i estimated the probability to come across a wreck by chance along the way, got roughly a chance of 1... ROV and/or deep wreck dive would be nice along side the sub, but it was too cumbersome to combine two expeditions... regards Antoine On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 11:38 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Antoine, > just had a look on line & there are thousands of wrecks in the English > Channel to avoid, > or at least approach from down current. > http://i.imgur.com/23WgO5H.jpg > What about having a small rov top side that could video some of your dive > & attach a rope > if necessary. Surely there would be a rov company that would like the free > advertising? > Cheers Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Monday, May 23, 2016 9:13 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests > > Hi Alan, > > good question. We have a scanning sonar at least 180? sector, so we should > see things coming, even from the sides. > ln case we get pined sideways, we can inflate ballast at last minute. or > wait a few hours for tides to reverse... > if we have more time and want to avoid uncontrolled ascent we could also > land with the anchor and VBT. > we have bow thruster too but not as reactive. > Last resort, a professional diver has been contacted; he ll have plenty of > time to come and get us free. > > regards, > Antoine > > On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 1:21 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Antoine, > as you will be side on to the current most of the time, & following the > contour of the sea bed in possible poor visibility conditions, what is > your contingency plan > if you are pinned sideways against a vertical obstruction? > Alan > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 19, 2016 11:21 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests > > Yes Alan, > we will do that between 5 and 12 of August > > regards, > Antoine > > On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Excellent report, enjoyed reading it. > Do you have an anticipated date to cross the channel? > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 19, 2016 9:57 PM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] some further lake tests > > Hello psubbers, > > Last week end we drove to the same lake as the first to do some more test > dives for our little human powered sub. Quite another event rich sequence > worth sharing: > > -The preparation session went ok. We just had another tv crew, which is > fine but is slowed us down, as they often want you to repeat some moves > even when they say they just want to film you do your things. Interviews > themselves are really short. > > -When driving to the harbour?s launch slope on a bumpy path, we heard a > noise a km before arriving. We found out that our 100kg emergency drop > weight had fallen from the sub. Hopefully it only fell 15cm onto the > central beam of the trailer, from where it could not go anywhere? The > vibrations had moved the release pins, and it also moved apart by a few mm > the lower legs of our nose frame, which normally closely bound each side of > the drop weight and where the release pins go. With a few hands we pushed > the weight back up in place. Lesson learned: use longer pins, retighten the > frame and add a thread bar to keep the legs of lower frame close enough > together. Also, we should have the drop weight rest on 3 support points (2 > pins, 1 ledge), not 4 (2pins, 2 ledges) which will never be fully stable. > > -We then launched. It went smoothly as we had done it before and knew > exactly where to bring the trailer and its rope extension to have the sub > float. > We then deflated the ballasts to check the trim inside the harbour. This > time it was perfect, having captured last time?s 25kg discrepancy in our > reference excel file and recomputed the lead weight we needed this time > given all the food and stuff we had taken. > > -then the boat towed us out, until we reached a 4m water depth to pedal a > bit. This went ok. We were just intrigued by a tiny high frequency > vibration coming from the prop shaft, which was there regardless of > rotating speed, but only when pedaling in the forward direction. It was not > there during the first dives, and it disappeared the next day. We are > wondering whether it came from the water lubricated bearing , or the > pressure seal assembly. The length of the prop shaft of over 2m makes it > probably prone to resonance. > > -This time we had better navigation instruments, a compass mounted right > outside the dome in front of us, on the aluminium dome seat, with quite > lower magnetic deviation due to the hull than we feared. Also a diver depth > gauge was there, very useful. We were eager to test our imagenex > sonar/sounder combo, but could not get it to work for that dive. Will be > next time? > > -The sub turned out quite stable, keeping straight when we stop pedaling, > but we noticed that having a buoy attached at the front of the sub with a > short rope to remain clear of the propeller gave a bit of instability on > top of extra drag. Depth control worked well with our 80kg tray on rollers > beneath batteries and pilot seat, although we were not aiming for very > large swings of depth. We just need to rework a bit the handle so it is > more convenient to use, especially when the sub is at large angles. > > -The oxygen consumption turned out lower than we expected. Michael and > myself are quite lightweights I should say. We were running at 0.75L/mn for > 2 people at rest, it actually went down to 0.5L/mn during the night, with > one sleeping. It also shooted up to 2L/mn after I went out for a swim > around the sub in cold water to remove our buoy rope from the prop the next > day. So feeling warm is really good to lower oxy consumption, and a down > jacket, socks, hat and gloves may be worth kgs of sodalime in emergency > mode! When pedaling it ranged between 1.25 to 2L/mn, not as high as > anticipated, but the pedaling resistance and heart rate remained quite > moderate. This brings our ?theoretical? life support autonomy to a whopping > 16 days in pedaling mode, and 37 days in rest mode. > > then we went for a tow to a nice diving spot on the other shore of the > lake where we would spend the night and find deeper water for the next days > dives. The tow was quite choppy, and we occasionally dove a 0.5 to 1 m with > dynamic effects, although since the first dives we moved the towing point > below the nose tip which improved considerably the behavior under tow. At > some point we had to slow down the tow as we noticed that the dome had > slightly moved on its seat, under a combination of : effect of slight > internal overpressure caused by temperature increase due to sun light in > the dome and slight CO2 build up, wave action, occasional UW dips, and > primarily because the force on the dome retainer strap was not high enough. > When we arrived at the other shore, we moored, inflated ballasts and > delicately removed the dome to check the oring and force on retainer strap. > We noticed the oring had a pinch point towards the dome pressure seat, so > we cleaned and re-placed it in a way to keep low pressure tightness. We > also added 1mm spacer between the dome and retainer strap to increase the > strap down force, and ensure a large enough oring compression so the dome > rests on its seat with no gap. the general theory says that a gap should > not be an issue as when you dive, the force closing the gap should be many > times higher than the force pushing the oring in. But here a combination of > waves, overpressure etc may have moved a bit the oring in at some point. > We also removed the prop to see if some debris could have caused the > subtle vibrations, but could not find any thing. > > -After that we had dinner and landed the sub to spend the night near the > shore in less than 2m water depth. Deployed our anchor also to stay put. It > worked well. Inside the sub we deployed our bunker bed and tested switching > positions between Michael and I. We slept one after the other, so we could > check on O2 and CO2 levels. Comfort was not bad, because the bunker bed is > really nice, but space is really small inside. We can grab all the controls > and isolation valves in case of emergency, but you can t help but feel like > trapped inside... During the night we used the red lighting as in real > subs, to feel like in the submarine movies, it was really cool! > > -Next day, after a beautiful sun rise seen from underwater, we went for a > dive to 10m water depth where we could have space above and below us to > really operate the water ballast and trim weight tray on rollers. Thanks to > our depth gauge, water circuitry and hand pump we could get in trim within > less than 1 kilo, and feel the inertia of piloting moves. It was really > good feeling piloting that thing in three dimensions. After the dive we > surfaced with our ballast and pedaled we got the rope in our large prop, > which led me go out, take a swim to cut it, and shorten the buoy rope as > our dive support boat had not arrived and our dive support was on the > shore. We ll probably add a duct around our prop... Then before I came back > in, some fishermen in another boat came and asked us whether we were fine, > they initially thought we were a boat upside down. It was funny seeing > their hallucinating faces. > > -we then had our own support boat come over and we went on for a > stretch of pedaling at 2m water depth. We could measure our speed at 1.2kt > which falls in the ball park we anticipated. We may gain some without a > buoy, and once our composite shells are polished, and also with a more > stable steering than what we had (the short buoy rope attached to the front > of the sub made it difficult to keep a stable course). On the other hand > adding a duct around our large prop may decrease our speed. But a duct > would also increase a bit the power we can put in at 70rpm, so we might > compensate extra drag effect on speed by extra thrust. > > -Over the week end in the sub, we managed to log quite a few hours with > our scrubbers. We reckoned we got over 200LCO2 /kg of sodasorb, which is > better than the typical figure given by the manufacturer (185LCO2/Kg). The > scrubber starts being less efficient indeed at around that amount but we > can still manage <1% in the cabin some time after that. On top of that, we > have probably extra absorption capacity from our nearly worn scrubbers as > we saw it can still run with an exhaust lean in CO2 in parallel or series > to our second fresher scrubber. But it is difficult to measure how much we > can extend the absorption capacity with this technique. > > regards, > Antoine > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 23 06:28:23 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 11:28:23 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Chinese Sub Message-ID: Scroll down to news story number 4. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-0192822d-14f1-432b-bd25-92eab6466362 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 23 08:24:37 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 12:24:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Chinese Sub In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1261047517.785676.1464006277740.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cool, thanks' JamesVery ambitious window size for the depth.Hank On Monday, May 23, 2016 4:28 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scroll down to news story number 4.?http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-0192822d-14f1-432b-bd25-92eab6466362 _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 25 16:06:13 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 15:06:13 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?CAD_for_presentation?= Message-ID: <20160525200613.30427.qmail@server268.com> I was wondering if anyone could help me out. I am planning on doing a presentation at Underwater Intervention about the Pisces VI submarine. I am wanting to show the components of the submarine how the sub originally was and then how we are changing it. I am not trained in CAD and was wondering if there is someone out there that could easily do this? Thank you, Scott Waters From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 25 19:26:33 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 23:26:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sonar References: <1252215542.864831.1464218793727.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1252215542.864831.1464218793727.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> ?Came across this avoidance scanner for ROV's.http://www.tritech.co.uk/product/small-rov-mechanical-sector-scanning-sonar-tritech-micronGood for 750 meters & only $9,644-Simrad have a reasonably priced forward scan transducer that gives depth also, but what depth it could be used ator whether it could be adapted I don't know.http://www.simrad-yachting.com/en-GB/Products/Echosounders/Transducers/ForwardScan-Transducer-en-gb.aspx Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 25 20:07:51 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 17:07:51 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Message-ID: <20160525170751.EA0667CF@m0087797.ppops.net> Scott, You might want to think about getting set up with "machine works" it's a type of cad program that integrates into CNC and also has some FEA capability ( very advanced stuff) . But you would need some serious computer power to run the program. But then designed components could then be coded for machining, it has extensive modeling etc.. , state of the art stuff. - Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: via Personal_Submersibles To: PSUBS Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 15:06:13 -0500 I was wondering if anyone could help me out. I am planning on doing a presentation at Underwater Intervention about the Pisces VI submarine. I am wanting to show the components of the submarine how the sub originally was and then how we are changing it. I am not trained in CAD and was wondering if there is someone out there that could easily do this? Thank you, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 26 10:30:35 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 09:30:35 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?CAD_for_presentation?= In-Reply-To: <20160525170751.EA0667CF@m0087797.ppops.net> References: <20160525170751.EA0667CF@m0087797.ppops.net> Message-ID: <20160526143035.18946.qmail@server268.com> I am worried about the amount of time it would take me to learn to be good with the software. From my understanding, it is quite the ramp up time. Thank you, Scott Waters > -------Original Message------- > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation > Sent: May 25 '16 19:09 > > Scott,?? You might want to think about getting set up with "machine works" it's a type of cad program that integrates into CNC and also has some FEA capability ( very advanced stuff) .??But you would need some serious computer power to run the program.??But then designed components could then be coded for machining, it has extensive modeling etc.. ,??state of the art stuff.?? -??Brian?? > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: PSUBS > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation > Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 15:06:13 -0500 > > I was wondering if anyone could help me out. I am planning on doing a presentation at Underwater Intervention about the Pisces VI submarine. I am wanting to show the components of the submarine how the sub originally was and then how we are changing it. I am not trained in CAD and was wondering if there is someone out there that could easily do this? > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 26 11:28:46 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 08:28:46 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Message-ID: <20160526082846.ED997E2E@m0087796.ppops.net> Yeah, but it's very intuitive once you get into it. Plus you could generate data to make parts using a CNC. More computer power = good thing ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 09:30:35 -0500 I am worried about the amount of time it would take me to learn to be good with the software. From my understanding, it is quite the ramp up time. Thank you, Scott Waters > -------Original Message------- > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation > Sent: May 25 '16 19:09 > > Scott,?? You might want to think about getting set up with "machine works" it's a type of cad program that integrates into CNC and also has some FEA capability ( very advanced stuff) .??But you would need some serious computer power to run the program.??But then designed components could then be coded for machining, it has extensive modeling etc.. ,??state of the art stuff.?? -??Brian?? > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: PSUBS > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation > Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 15:06:13 -0500 > > I was wondering if anyone could help me out. I am planning on doing a presentation at Underwater Intervention about the Pisces VI submarine. I am wanting to show the components of the submarine how the sub originally was and then how we are changing it. I am not trained in CAD and was wondering if there is someone out there that could easily do this? > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 26 11:41:44 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 10:41:44 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?CAD_for_presentation?= In-Reply-To: <20160526082846.ED997E2E@m0087796.ppops.net> References: <20160526082846.ED997E2E@m0087796.ppops.net> Message-ID: <20160526154144.14301.qmail@server268.com> OK. Thanks for the information Scott Waters > -------Original Message------- > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation > Sent: May 26 '16 10:30 > > Yeah, but it's very intuitive once you get into it.??Plus you could generate data to make parts using a CNC.??More computer power = good thing ! > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation > Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 09:30:35 -0500 > > I am worried about the amount of time it would take me to learn to be good with the software. From my understanding, it is quite the ramp up time. > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > >??-------Original Message------- > >??From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > >??To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >??Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation > >??Sent: May 25 '16 19:09 > >?? > >??Scott,?? You might want to think about getting set up with "machine works" it's a type of cad program that integrates into CNC and also has some FEA capability ( very advanced stuff) .??But you would need some serious computer power to run the program.??But then designed components could then be coded for machining, it has extensive modeling etc.. ,??state of the art stuff.?? -??Brian?? > >?? > >??--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >?? > >??From: via Personal_Submersibles > >??To: PSUBS > >??Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation > >??Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 15:06:13 -0500 > >?? > >??I was wondering if anyone could help me out. I am planning on doing a presentation at Underwater Intervention about the Pisces VI submarine. I am wanting to show the components of the submarine how the sub originally was and then how we are changing it. I am not trained in CAD and was wondering if there is someone out there that could easily do this? > >?? > >??Thank you, > >??Scott Waters > >??_______________________________________________ > >??Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >??Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >??http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >?? > >?? > >??_______________________________________________ > >??Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >??Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >??http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >?? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 27 09:52:31 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 08:52:31 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: <20160526154144.14301.qmail@server268.com> References: <20160526082846.ED997E2E@m0087796.ppops.net> <20160526154144.14301.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: Scott, I have been thinking about your request for CAD assistance for upcoming presentation. I think with your Pisces VI build, you really have both tactical and strategic technical drawing needs. Let look at the long range strategic need first. Because you are going to make some changes to the boat, ABS is going to make you submit a report that among other things has a drawings set that reflects the current build, a weights and balance and buoyant accounting that rolls up the new CG and CB of the boat and a stress analysis of the pressure hull both in the form of the ABS hull stress calculations and an FEA. The best way to get these is through a 3-D modeling package like Autodesk Inventor Pro or Solidworks. My suggestion is to invest in one of the software packages and take a basic 3-D modeling training course on the software. You then crawl into the belly of the beast with your tape measure and digital caliper and take the dimensions of each part and then model it in the 3-D modeling software. After you get all the parts modeled, you them make up assemblies of these parts that will enable you to turn out the 2-D prints of the parts and assemblies. From this 3-D model, of your Pisces VI, you then can extract the CB, CG of the boat. All of these 3-D software packages let you export STEP files of the model that can be read by the FEA software Sean uses. If you pay some one to build this 3-D model, first of all it will cost a lot of money and every time you change anything you will have to go back the guy for an update. In the long run, having this skill set (3-D modeling) will be very useful for future mechanical projects off all types. >From a tactical perspective, what people are most interested in, from my perspective, on your renovation is what is the state of the boat at the time you acquired it documented by lots of pictures, and what the big pictures is on what you think you will need to do to get your ABS A1 recertification and lastly what are the major structural changes you are planning. I don't know how much time you have for your presentation but my guess is 20 minutes or so. If this is the case, on average you can count on about 1 min per slide so you have 20 slides to present. This does not leave much time for presenting CAD work. You might be able to get away with the basic drawing tools in Power point for these few slides on the changes. Make sure you put a slide in for your new mega shop which we are all salivating over and how you are going to dive this boat when your done in Kansas! Cliff On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 10:41 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > OK. Thanks for the information > > Scott Waters > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation > > Sent: May 26 '16 10:30 > > > > Yeah, but it's very intuitive once you get into it. Plus you could > generate data to make parts using a CNC. More computer power = good thing ! > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > From: via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation > > Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 09:30:35 -0500 > > > > I am worried about the amount of time it would take me to learn to be > good with the software. From my understanding, it is quite the ramp up time. > > > > Thank you, > > Scott Waters > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation > > > Sent: May 25 '16 19:09 > > > > > > Scott, You might want to think about getting set up with "machine > works" it's a type of cad program that integrates into CNC and also has > some FEA capability ( very advanced stuff) . But you would need some > serious computer power to run the program. But then designed components > could then be coded for machining, it has extensive modeling etc.. , state > of the art stuff. - Brian > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > > > From: via Personal_Submersibles > > > To: PSUBS > > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation > > > Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 15:06:13 -0500 > > > > > > I was wondering if anyone could help me out. I am planning on doing > a presentation at Underwater Intervention about the Pisces VI submarine. I > am wanting to show the components of the submarine how the sub originally > was and then how we are changing it. I am not trained in CAD and was > wondering if there is someone out there that could easily do this? > > > > > > Thank you, > > > Scott Waters > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 27 10:46:40 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 15:46:40 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: References: <20160526082846.ED997E2E@m0087796.ppops.net> <20160526154144.14301.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: Hi Scott, You can get a free copy of Autodesk Inventor if your a student. Your a member of the PiscesVI school of engineering right? http://www.autodesk.com/education/free-software/all?_ga=1.79210973.872852730.1464360344 Regards James On 27 May 2016 at 14:52, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Scott, I have been thinking about your request for CAD assistance for > upcoming presentation. I think with your Pisces VI build, you really have > both tactical and strategic technical drawing needs. Let look at the long > range strategic need first. Because you are going to make some changes to > the boat, ABS is going to make you submit a report that among other things > has a drawings set that reflects the current build, a weights and balance > and buoyant accounting that rolls up the new CG and CB of the boat and a > stress analysis of the pressure hull both in the form of the ABS hull > stress calculations and an FEA. The best way to get these is through a > 3-D modeling package like Autodesk Inventor Pro or Solidworks. My > suggestion is to invest in one of the software packages and take a basic > 3-D modeling training course on the software. You then crawl into the > belly of the beast with your tape measure and digital caliper and take the > dimensions of each part and then model it in the 3-D modeling software. > After you get all the parts modeled, you them make up assemblies of these > parts that will enable you to turn out the 2-D prints of the parts and > assemblies. From this 3-D model, of your Pisces VI, you then can extract > the CB, CG of the boat. All of these 3-D software packages let you export > STEP files of the model that can be read by the FEA software Sean uses. If > you pay some one to build this 3-D model, first of all it will cost a lot > of money and every time you change anything you will have to go back the > guy for an update. In the long run, having this skill set (3-D modeling) > will be very useful for future mechanical projects off all types. > > From a tactical perspective, what people are most interested in, from my > perspective, on your renovation is what is the state of the boat at the > time you acquired it documented by lots of pictures, and what the big > pictures is on what you think you will need to do to get your ABS > A1 recertification and lastly what are the major structural changes you are > planning. I don't know how much time you have for your presentation but my > guess is 20 minutes or so. If this is the case, on average you can count > on about 1 min per slide so you have 20 slides to present. This does not > leave much time for presenting CAD work. You might be able to get away > with the basic drawing tools in Power point for these few slides on the > changes. > > Make sure you put a slide in for your new mega shop which we are all > salivating over and how you are going to dive this boat when your done in > Kansas! > > Cliff > > On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 10:41 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> OK. Thanks for the information >> >> Scott Waters >> >> > -------Original Message------- >> > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >> > Sent: May 26 '16 10:30 >> > >> > Yeah, but it's very intuitive once you get into it. Plus you could >> generate data to make parts using a CNC. More computer power = good thing ! >> > >> > Brian >> > >> > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> > >> > From: via Personal_Submersibles >> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >> > Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 09:30:35 -0500 >> > >> > I am worried about the amount of time it would take me to learn to be >> good with the software. From my understanding, it is quite the ramp up time. >> > >> > Thank you, >> > Scott Waters >> > >> > > -------Original Message------- >> > > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >> > > Sent: May 25 '16 19:09 >> > > >> > > Scott, You might want to think about getting set up with "machine >> works" it's a type of cad program that integrates into CNC and also has >> some FEA capability ( very advanced stuff) . But you would need some >> serious computer power to run the program. But then designed components >> could then be coded for machining, it has extensive modeling etc.. , state >> of the art stuff. - Brian >> > > >> > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> > > >> > > From: via Personal_Submersibles >> > > To: PSUBS >> > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >> > > Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 15:06:13 -0500 >> > > >> > > I was wondering if anyone could help me out. I am planning on doing >> a presentation at Underwater Intervention about the Pisces VI submarine. I >> am wanting to show the components of the submarine how the sub originally >> was and then how we are changing it. I am not trained in CAD and was >> wondering if there is someone out there that could easily do this? >> > > >> > > Thank you, >> > > Scott Waters >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 27 11:06:19 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 09:06:19 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: References: <20160526082846.ED997E2E@m0087796.ppops.net> <20160526154144.14301.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: <9aa26196-96e3-4466-84f3-ed3052ea0060@email.android.com> I concur with Cliff. Both Solidworks and Autodesk Inventor are functionally equivalent packages (with Solidworks probably edging out a lead in proliferation and FEA / CFD transference), and it would serve you well to learn both modelling and engineering drawing creation with one of these packages. They are expensive tools, but you don't necessarily need a maintenance subscription. Year to year, the changes are mostly aesthetic / interface. Core functionality is what matters. Fixing an interference in 3D space is much cheaper than fixing it after you have fabricated parts, and if you farm out fabrication / machining of anything, the drawing serves as your contract - the supplied part has to match, and no worries about misinterpretations. That said, right off the bat you won't be able to create appropriate geometry for FEA models, other than relatively simple solid models, because FEA has to consider contact interfaces between parts which are not physically joined, flexible elements, and so on. Setting up properly representative FE load cases requires some experience, to take advantage of appropriate symmetries, determine mesh refinements and so on. I have used the FEA applets that are part of the CAD packages, as well as a bit of Abaqus and LS-Dyna, but only sporadically over the years. I will do my own FEA on single parts with simple load cases, but when things get more complicated, I hand them off to colleagues with more experience in that area. A parametric 3D solid modeling package and some training are probably good investments. That said, if you need something in a hurry, I may be able to help you out. Contact me off list. Sean On May 27, 2016 7:52:31 AM MDT, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Scott, I have been thinking about your request for CAD assistance for >upcoming presentation. I think with your Pisces VI build, you really >have >both tactical and strategic technical drawing needs. Let look at the >long >range strategic need first. Because you are going to make some changes >to >the boat, ABS is going to make you submit a report that among other >things >has a drawings set that reflects the current build, a weights and >balance >and buoyant accounting that rolls up the new CG and CB of the boat and >a >stress analysis of the pressure hull both in the form of the ABS hull >stress calculations and an FEA. The best way to get these is through >a >3-D modeling package like Autodesk Inventor Pro or Solidworks. My >suggestion is to invest in one of the software packages and take a >basic >3-D modeling training course on the software. You then crawl into the >belly of the beast with your tape measure and digital caliper and take >the >dimensions of each part and then model it in the 3-D modeling software. >After you get all the parts modeled, you them make up assemblies of >these >parts that will enable you to turn out the 2-D prints of the parts and >assemblies. From this 3-D model, of your Pisces VI, you then can >extract >the CB, CG of the boat. All of these 3-D software packages let you >export >STEP files of the model that can be read by the FEA software Sean uses. > If >you pay some one to build this 3-D model, first of all it will cost a >lot >of money and every time you change anything you will have to go back >the >guy for an update. In the long run, having this skill set (3-D >modeling) >will be very useful for future mechanical projects off all types. > >From a tactical perspective, what people are most interested in, from >my >perspective, on your renovation is what is the state of the boat at the >time you acquired it documented by lots of pictures, and what the big >pictures is on what you think you will need to do to get your ABS >A1 recertification and lastly what are the major structural changes you >are >planning. I don't know how much time you have for your presentation >but my >guess is 20 minutes or so. If this is the case, on average you can >count >on about 1 min per slide so you have 20 slides to present. This does >not >leave much time for presenting CAD work. You might be able to get away >with the basic drawing tools in Power point for these few slides on the >changes. > >Make sure you put a slide in for your new mega shop which we are all >salivating over and how you are going to dive this boat when your done >in >Kansas! > >Cliff > >On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 10:41 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < >personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> OK. Thanks for the information >> >> Scott Waters >> >> > -------Original Message------- >> > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >> > Sent: May 26 '16 10:30 >> > >> > Yeah, but it's very intuitive once you get into it. Plus you >could >> generate data to make parts using a CNC. More computer power = good >thing ! >> > >> > Brian >> > >> > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> > >> > From: via Personal_Submersibles >> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >> > Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 09:30:35 -0500 >> > >> > I am worried about the amount of time it would take me to learn to >be >> good with the software. From my understanding, it is quite the ramp >up time. >> > >> > Thank you, >> > Scott Waters >> > >> > > -------Original Message------- >> > > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >> > > Sent: May 25 '16 19:09 >> > > >> > > Scott, You might want to think about getting set up with >"machine >> works" it's a type of cad program that integrates into CNC and also >has >> some FEA capability ( very advanced stuff) . But you would need some >> serious computer power to run the program. But then designed >components >> could then be coded for machining, it has extensive modeling etc.. , >state >> of the art stuff. - Brian >> > > >> > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> > > >> > > From: via Personal_Submersibles > >> > > To: PSUBS >> > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >> > > Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 15:06:13 -0500 >> > > >> > > I was wondering if anyone could help me out. I am planning on >doing >> a presentation at Underwater Intervention about the Pisces VI >submarine. I >> am wanting to show the components of the submarine how the sub >originally >> was and then how we are changing it. I am not trained in CAD and was >> wondering if there is someone out there that could easily do this? >> > > >> > > Thank you, >> > > Scott Waters >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 27 16:04:10 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 15:04:10 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Message-ID: Cliff,Which software is most easily learned? I have no CAD experience. All my design work in the past was all sketched out on a bar napkin. Haha.Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Date: 05/27/2016 8:52 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Scott, I have been thinking about your request for CAD assistance for upcoming presentation.? I think?with your?Pisces VI build, you really have both tactical and strategic technical drawing needs.? Let look at the long range strategic need first.? Because you are going to make some changes to the boat, ABS is going to make you submit a report that among other things has a drawings set that reflects the current build, a weights and balance and buoyant accounting that rolls up the new CG and CB of the boat and a stress analysis of the pressure hull both in the form of the ABS hull stress calculations and an FEA.??? The best way to get these is through a 3-D modeling package like Autodesk Inventor Pro or Solidworks.? My suggestion is to invest in one of the software packages and take a basic 3-D modeling training course on the software.? You then crawl into the belly of the beast with your tape measure and digital caliper and take the dimensions of each part and then model it in the 3-D modeling software.? After you get all the parts modeled, you them make up assemblies of these parts that will enable you to turn out the 2-D prints of the parts and assemblies. ? From this 3-D model, of your?Pisces VI, you then can extract the CB, CG of the boat.? All of these 3-D software packages let you export STEP files of the model that can be read by the FEA software Sean uses.? If you pay some one to build this 3-D model, first of all it will cost a lot of money?and every time you change anything you will have to go back the guy for an update.? In the long run, having this skill set (3-D modeling) will be very useful for future mechanical projects off all types.? From a tactical perspective, what people are most interested in,?from my perspective, on your renovation is what is the state of the boat at the time you acquired it documented by lots of pictures, and what the big pictures is on what you think you will need to do to get your ABS A1?recertification and lastly what are the major structural changes you are planning.? I don't know how much time you have for your presentation but my guess is 20 minutes or so.? If this is the case, on average you can count on about 1 min per slide so you have 20 slides to present.? This does not leave much time for presenting CAD work.? You might be able to get away with the basic drawing tools in Power point for these few slides on the changes.? Make sure you put a slide in for your new mega shop which we are all salivating over and how you are going to dive this boat when your done in Kansas! Cliff On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 10:41 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: OK. Thanks for the information Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? Sent: May 26 '16 10:30 > >? Yeah, but it's very intuitive once you get into it.??Plus you could generate data to make parts using a CNC.??More computer power = good thing ! > >? Brian > >? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >? From: via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 09:30:35 -0500 > >? I am worried about the amount of time it would take me to learn to be good with the software. From my understanding, it is quite the ramp up time. > >? Thank you, >? Scott Waters > >? >??-------Original Message------- >? >??From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >? >??To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? >??Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? >??Sent: May 25 '16 19:09 >? >?? >? >??Scott,?? You might want to think about getting set up with "machine works" it's a type of cad program that integrates into CNC and also has some FEA capability ( very advanced stuff) .??But you would need some serious computer power to run the program.??But then designed components could then be coded for machining, it has extensive modeling etc.. ,??state of the art stuff.?? -??Brian?? >? >?? >? >??--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >? >?? >? >??From: via Personal_Submersibles >? >??To: PSUBS >? >??Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? >??Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 15:06:13 -0500 >? >?? >? >??I was wondering if anyone could help me out. I am planning on doing a presentation at Underwater Intervention about the Pisces VI submarine. I am wanting to show the components of the submarine how the sub originally was and then how we are changing it. I am not trained in CAD and was wondering if there is someone out there that could easily do this? >? >?? >? >??Thank you, >? >??Scott Waters >? >??_______________________________________________ >? >??Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? >??Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? >??http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >?? >? >?? >? >??_______________________________________________ >? >??Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? >??Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? >??http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >?? >? _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >? _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 27 16:11:00 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 20:11:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2037832879.570275.1464379860881.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> The one with the most youtube tutorial videos. From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 3:04 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Cliff,Which software is most easily learned? I have no CAD experience. All my design work in the past was all sketched out on a bar napkin. Haha.Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Date: 05/27/2016 8:52 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Scott, I have been thinking about your request for CAD assistance for upcoming presentation.? I think?with your?Pisces VI build, you really have both tactical and strategic technical drawing needs.? Let look at the long range strategic need first.? Because you are going to make some changes to the boat, ABS is going to make you submit a report that among other things has a drawings set that reflects the current build, a weights and balance and buoyant accounting that rolls up the new CG and CB of the boat and a stress analysis of the pressure hull both in the form of the ABS hull stress calculations and an FEA.??? The best way to get these is through a 3-D modeling package like Autodesk Inventor Pro or Solidworks.? My suggestion is to invest in one of the software packages and take a basic 3-D modeling training course on the software.? You then crawl into the belly of the beast with your tape measure and digital caliper and take the dimensions of each part and then model it in the 3-D modeling software.? After you get all the parts modeled, you them make up assemblies of these parts that will enable you to turn out the 2-D prints of the parts and assemblies. ? From this 3-D model, of your?Pisces VI, you then can extract the CB, CG of the boat.? All of these 3-D software packages let you export STEP files of the model that can be read by the FEA software Sean uses.? If you pay some one to build this 3-D model, first of all it will cost a lot of money?and every time you change anything you will have to go back the guy for an update.? In the long run, having this skill set (3-D modeling) will be very useful for future mechanical projects off all types.? >From a tactical perspective, what people are most interested in,?from my perspective, on your renovation is what is the state of the boat at the time you acquired it documented by lots of pictures, and what the big pictures is on what you think you will need to do to get your ABS A1?recertification and lastly what are the major structural changes you are planning.? I don't know how much time you have for your presentation but my guess is 20 minutes or so.? If this is the case, on average you can count on about 1 min per slide so you have 20 slides to present.? This does not leave much time for presenting CAD work.? You might be able to get away with the basic drawing tools in Power point for these few slides on the changes.? Make sure you put a slide in for your new mega shop which we are all salivating over and how you are going to dive this boat when your done in Kansas! Cliff On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 10:41 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: OK. Thanks for the information Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? Sent: May 26 '16 10:30 > >? Yeah, but it's very intuitive once you get into it.??Plus you could generate data to make parts using a CNC.??More computer power = good thing ! > >? Brian > >? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >? From: via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 09:30:35 -0500 > >? I am worried about the amount of time it would take me to learn to be good with the software. From my understanding, it is quite the ramp up time. > >? Thank you, >? Scott Waters > >? >??-------Original Message------- >? >??From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >? >??To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? >??Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? >??Sent: May 25 '16 19:09 >? >?? >? >??Scott,?? You might want to think about getting set up with "machine works" it's a type of cad program that integrates into CNC and also has some FEA capability ( very advanced stuff) .??But you would need some serious computer power to run the program.??But then designed components could then be coded for machining, it has extensive modeling etc.. ,??state of the art stuff.?? -??Brian?? >? >?? >? >??--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >? >?? >? >??From: via Personal_Submersibles >? >??To: PSUBS >? >??Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? >??Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 15:06:13 -0500 >? >?? >? >??I was wondering if anyone could help me out. I am planning on doing a presentation at Underwater Intervention about the Pisces VI submarine. I am wanting to show the components of the submarine how the sub originally was and then how we are changing it. I am not trained in CAD and was wondering if there is someone out there that could easily do this? >? >?? >? >??Thank you, >? >??Scott Waters >? >??_______________________________________________ >? >??Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? >??Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? >??http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >?? >? >?? >? >??_______________________________________________ >? >??Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? >??Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? >??http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >?? >? _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >? _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 27 16:20:08 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 15:20:08 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: They are about the same as for learning curve. Cliff Redus > On May 27, 2016, at 3:04 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, > Which software is most easily learned? I have no CAD experience. All my design work in the past was all sketched out on a bar napkin. Haha. > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 05/27/2016 8:52 AM (GMT-06:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation > > Scott, I have been thinking about your request for CAD assistance for upcoming presentation. I think with your Pisces VI build, you really have both tactical and strategic technical drawing needs. Let look at the long range strategic need first. Because you are going to make some changes to the boat, ABS is going to make you submit a report that among other things has a drawings set that reflects the current build, a weights and balance and buoyant accounting that rolls up the new CG and CB of the boat and a stress analysis of the pressure hull both in the form of the ABS hull stress calculations and an FEA. The best way to get these is through a 3-D modeling package like Autodesk Inventor Pro or Solidworks. My suggestion is to invest in one of the software packages and take a basic 3-D modeling training course on the software. You then crawl into the belly of the beast with your tape measure and digital caliper and take the dimensions of each part and then model it in the 3-D modeling software. After you get all the parts modeled, you them make up assemblies of these parts that will enable you to turn out the 2-D prints of the parts and assemblies. From this 3-D model, of your Pisces VI, you then can extract the CB, CG of the boat. All of these 3-D software packages let you export STEP files of the model that can be read by the FEA software Sean uses. If you pay some one to build this 3-D model, first of all it will cost a lot of money and every time you change anything you will have to go back the guy for an update. In the long run, having this skill set (3-D modeling) will be very useful for future mechanical projects off all types. > > From a tactical perspective, what people are most interested in, from my perspective, on your renovation is what is the state of the boat at the time you acquired it documented by lots of pictures, and what the big pictures is on what you think you will need to do to get your ABS A1 recertification and lastly what are the major structural changes you are planning. I don't know how much time you have for your presentation but my guess is 20 minutes or so. If this is the case, on average you can count on about 1 min per slide so you have 20 slides to present. This does not leave much time for presenting CAD work. You might be able to get away with the basic drawing tools in Power point for these few slides on the changes. > > Make sure you put a slide in for your new mega shop which we are all salivating over and how you are going to dive this boat when your done in Kansas! > > Cliff > >> On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 10:41 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> OK. Thanks for the information >> >> Scott Waters >> >> > -------Original Message------- >> > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >> > Sent: May 26 '16 10:30 >> > >> > Yeah, but it's very intuitive once you get into it. Plus you could generate data to make parts using a CNC. More computer power = good thing ! >> > >> > Brian >> > >> > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> > >> > From: via Personal_Submersibles >> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >> > Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 09:30:35 -0500 >> > >> > I am worried about the amount of time it would take me to learn to be good with the software. From my understanding, it is quite the ramp up time. >> > >> > Thank you, >> > Scott Waters >> > >> > > -------Original Message------- >> > > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >> > > Sent: May 25 '16 19:09 >> > > >> > > Scott, You might want to think about getting set up with "machine works" it's a type of cad program that integrates into CNC and also has some FEA capability ( very advanced stuff) . But you would need some serious computer power to run the program. But then designed components could then be coded for machining, it has extensive modeling etc.. , state of the art stuff. - Brian >> > > >> > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> > > >> > > From: via Personal_Submersibles >> > > To: PSUBS >> > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >> > > Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 15:06:13 -0500 >> > > >> > > I was wondering if anyone could help me out. I am planning on doing a presentation at Underwater Intervention about the Pisces VI submarine. I am wanting to show the components of the submarine how the sub originally was and then how we are changing it. I am not trained in CAD and was wondering if there is someone out there that could easily do this? >> > > >> > > Thank you, >> > > Scott Waters >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 27 17:06:03 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 14:06:03 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Via Cad is easy. other open source cad are good, to learn try google sketch up 2016-05-27 13:04 GMT-07:00 Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > Cliff, > Which software is most easily learned? I have no CAD experience. All my > design work in the past was all sketched out on a bar napkin. Haha. > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Date: 05/27/2016 8:52 AM (GMT-06:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation > > Scott, I have been thinking about your request for CAD assistance for > upcoming presentation. I think with your Pisces VI build, you really have > both tactical and strategic technical drawing needs. Let look at the long > range strategic need first. Because you are going to make some changes to > the boat, ABS is going to make you submit a report that among other things > has a drawings set that reflects the current build, a weights and balance > and buoyant accounting that rolls up the new CG and CB of the boat and a > stress analysis of the pressure hull both in the form of the ABS hull > stress calculations and an FEA. The best way to get these is through a > 3-D modeling package like Autodesk Inventor Pro or Solidworks. My > suggestion is to invest in one of the software packages and take a basic > 3-D modeling training course on the software. You then crawl into the > belly of the beast with your tape measure and digital caliper and take the > dimensions of each part and then model it in the 3-D modeling software. > After you get all the parts modeled, you them make up assemblies of these > parts that will enable you to turn out the 2-D prints of the parts and > assemblies. From this 3-D model, of your Pisces VI, you then can extract > the CB, CG of the boat. All of these 3-D software packages let you export > STEP files of the model that can be read by the FEA software Sean uses. If > you pay some one to build this 3-D model, first of all it will cost a lot > of money and every time you change anything you will have to go back the > guy for an update. In the long run, having this skill set (3-D modeling) > will be very useful for future mechanical projects off all types. > > From a tactical perspective, what people are most interested in, from my > perspective, on your renovation is what is the state of the boat at the > time you acquired it documented by lots of pictures, and what the big > pictures is on what you think you will need to do to get your ABS > A1 recertification and lastly what are the major structural changes you are > planning. I don't know how much time you have for your presentation but my > guess is 20 minutes or so. If this is the case, on average you can count > on about 1 min per slide so you have 20 slides to present. This does not > leave much time for presenting CAD work. You might be able to get away > with the basic drawing tools in Power point for these few slides on the > changes. > > Make sure you put a slide in for your new mega shop which we are all > salivating over and how you are going to dive this boat when your done in > Kansas! > > Cliff > > On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 10:41 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> OK. Thanks for the information >> >> Scott Waters >> >> > -------Original Message------- >> > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >> > Sent: May 26 '16 10:30 >> > >> > Yeah, but it's very intuitive once you get into it. Plus you could >> generate data to make parts using a CNC. More computer power = good thing ! >> > >> > Brian >> > >> > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> > >> > From: via Personal_Submersibles >> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >> > Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 09:30:35 -0500 >> > >> > I am worried about the amount of time it would take me to learn to be >> good with the software. From my understanding, it is quite the ramp up time. >> > >> > Thank you, >> > Scott Waters >> > >> > > -------Original Message------- >> > > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >> > > Sent: May 25 '16 19:09 >> > > >> > > Scott, You might want to think about getting set up with "machine >> works" it's a type of cad program that integrates into CNC and also has >> some FEA capability ( very advanced stuff) . But you would need some >> serious computer power to run the program. But then designed components >> could then be coded for machining, it has extensive modeling etc.. , state >> of the art stuff. - Brian >> > > >> > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> > > >> > > From: via Personal_Submersibles >> > > To: PSUBS >> > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >> > > Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 15:06:13 -0500 >> > > >> > > I was wondering if anyone could help me out. I am planning on doing >> a presentation at Underwater Intervention about the Pisces VI submarine. I >> am wanting to show the components of the submarine how the sub originally >> was and then how we are changing it. I am not trained in CAD and was >> wondering if there is someone out there that could easily do this? >> > > >> > > Thank you, >> > > Scott Waters >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 27 17:39:50 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 21:39:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1185938545.665149.1464385190133.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> All this advice hinges on the premises that ABS are going to acceptthe measurements that any unqualified Wally will provide them. To meit?would be a difficult job finding and documenting any out of roundness & deviation of thickness along with the penetration thicknesses & contours.?? Perhaps find out first if they have any requirements regarding theprofessionalism of the person & process for measuring the hull, as the FEA will be based on those measurements. If they do require a certified professional to supply them with drawings,then any 3D images for conference could be taken from that.Cheers Alan From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Cliff,Which software is most easily learned? I have no CAD experience. All my design work in the past was all sketched out on a bar napkin. Haha.Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Date: 05/27/2016 8:52 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Scott, I have been thinking about your request for CAD assistance for upcoming presentation.? I think?with your?Pisces VI build, you really have both tactical and strategic technical drawing needs.? Let look at the long range strategic need first.? Because you are going to make some changes to the boat, ABS is going to make you submit a report that among other things has a drawings set that reflects the current build, a weights and balance and buoyant accounting that rolls up the new CG and CB of the boat and a stress analysis of the pressure hull both in the form of the ABS hull stress calculations and an FEA.??? The best way to get these is through a 3-D modeling package like Autodesk Inventor Pro or Solidworks.? My suggestion is to invest in one of the software packages and take a basic 3-D modeling training course on the software.? You then crawl into the belly of the beast with your tape measure and digital caliper and take the dimensions of each part and then model it in the 3-D modeling software.? After you get all the parts modeled, you them make up assemblies of these parts that will enable you to turn out the 2-D prints of the parts and assemblies. ? From this 3-D model, of your?Pisces VI, you then can extract the CB, CG of the boat.? All of these 3-D software packages let you export STEP files of the model that can be read by the FEA software Sean uses.? If you pay some one to build this 3-D model, first of all it will cost a lot of money?and every time you change anything you will have to go back the guy for an update.? In the long run, having this skill set (3-D modeling) will be very useful for future mechanical projects off all types.? >From a tactical perspective, what people are most interested in,?from my perspective, on your renovation is what is the state of the boat at the time you acquired it documented by lots of pictures, and what the big pictures is on what you think you will need to do to get your ABS A1?recertification and lastly what are the major structural changes you are planning.? I don't know how much time you have for your presentation but my guess is 20 minutes or so.? If this is the case, on average you can count on about 1 min per slide so you have 20 slides to present.? This does not leave much time for presenting CAD work.? You might be able to get away with the basic drawing tools in Power point for these few slides on the changes.? Make sure you put a slide in for your new mega shop which we are all salivating over and how you are going to dive this boat when your done in Kansas! Cliff On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 10:41 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: OK. Thanks for the information Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? Sent: May 26 '16 10:30 > >? Yeah, but it's very intuitive once you get into it.??Plus you could generate data to make parts using a CNC.??More computer power = good thing ! > >? Brian > >? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >? From: via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 09:30:35 -0500 > >? I am worried about the amount of time it would take me to learn to be good with the software. From my understanding, it is quite the ramp up time. > >? Thank you, >? Scott Waters > >? >??-------Original Message------- >? >??From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >? >??To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? >??Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? >??Sent: May 25 '16 19:09 >? >?? >? >??Scott,?? You might want to think about getting set up with "machine works" it's a type of cad program that integrates into CNC and also has some FEA capability ( very advanced stuff) .??But you would need some serious computer power to run the program.??But then designed components could then be coded for machining, it has extensive modeling etc.. ,??state of the art stuff.?? -??Brian?? >? >?? >? >??--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >? >?? >? >??From: via Personal_Submersibles >? >??To: PSUBS >? >??Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? >??Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 15:06:13 -0500 >? >?? >? >??I was wondering if anyone could help me out. I am planning on doing a presentation at Underwater Intervention about the Pisces VI submarine. I am wanting to show the components of the submarine how the sub originally was and then how we are changing it. I am not trained in CAD and was wondering if there is someone out there that could easily do this? >? >?? >? >??Thank you, >? >??Scott Waters >? >??_______________________________________________ >? >??Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? >??Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? >??http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >?? >? >?? >? >??_______________________________________________ >? >??Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? >??Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? >??http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >?? >? _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >? _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 27 17:55:23 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 21:55:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: <1185938545.665149.1464385190133.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1185938545.665149.1464385190133.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <232345767.542696.1464386123564.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Scott must have technical drawings that came with the sub, heck I have them for GammaSurly those could be used as?reference of existing dimensions.Hank On Friday, May 27, 2016 3:39 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All this advice hinges on the premises that ABS are going to acceptthe measurements that any unqualified Wally will provide them. To meit?would be a difficult job finding and documenting any out of roundness & deviation of thickness along with the penetration thicknesses & contours.?? Perhaps find out first if they have any requirements regarding theprofessionalism of the person & process for measuring the hull, as the FEA will be based on those measurements. If they do require a certified professional to supply them with drawings,then any 3D images for conference could be taken from that.Cheers Alan From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Cliff,Which software is most easily learned? I have no CAD experience. All my design work in the past was all sketched out on a bar napkin. Haha.Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Date: 05/27/2016 8:52 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Scott, I have been thinking about your request for CAD assistance for upcoming presentation.? I think?with your?Pisces VI build, you really have both tactical and strategic technical drawing needs.? Let look at the long range strategic need first.? Because you are going to make some changes to the boat, ABS is going to make you submit a report that among other things has a drawings set that reflects the current build, a weights and balance and buoyant accounting that rolls up the new CG and CB of the boat and a stress analysis of the pressure hull both in the form of the ABS hull stress calculations and an FEA.??? The best way to get these is through a 3-D modeling package like Autodesk Inventor Pro or Solidworks.? My suggestion is to invest in one of the software packages and take a basic 3-D modeling training course on the software.? You then crawl into the belly of the beast with your tape measure and digital caliper and take the dimensions of each part and then model it in the 3-D modeling software.? After you get all the parts modeled, you them make up assemblies of these parts that will enable you to turn out the 2-D prints of the parts and assemblies. ? From this 3-D model, of your?Pisces VI, you then can extract the CB, CG of the boat.? All of these 3-D software packages let you export STEP files of the model that can be read by the FEA software Sean uses.? If you pay some one to build this 3-D model, first of all it will cost a lot of money?and every time you change anything you will have to go back the guy for an update.? In the long run, having this skill set (3-D modeling) will be very useful for future mechanical projects off all types.? >From a tactical perspective, what people are most interested in,?from my perspective, on your renovation is what is the state of the boat at the time you acquired it documented by lots of pictures, and what the big pictures is on what you think you will need to do to get your ABS A1?recertification and lastly what are the major structural changes you are planning.? I don't know how much time you have for your presentation but my guess is 20 minutes or so.? If this is the case, on average you can count on about 1 min per slide so you have 20 slides to present.? This does not leave much time for presenting CAD work.? You might be able to get away with the basic drawing tools in Power point for these few slides on the changes.? Make sure you put a slide in for your new mega shop which we are all salivating over and how you are going to dive this boat when your done in Kansas! Cliff On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 10:41 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: OK. Thanks for the information Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? Sent: May 26 '16 10:30 > >? Yeah, but it's very intuitive once you get into it.??Plus you could generate data to make parts using a CNC.??More computer power = good thing ! > >? Brian > >? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >? From: via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 09:30:35 -0500 > >? I am worried about the amount of time it would take me to learn to be good with the software. From my understanding, it is quite the ramp up time. > >? Thank you, >? Scott Waters > >? >??-------Original Message------- >? >??From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >? >??To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? >??Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? >??Sent: May 25 '16 19:09 >? >?? >? >??Scott,?? You might want to think about getting set up with "machine works" it's a type of cad program that integrates into CNC and also has some FEA capability ( very advanced stuff) .??But you would need some serious computer power to run the program.??But then designed components could then be coded for machining, it has extensive modeling etc.. ,??state of the art stuff.?? -??Brian?? >? >?? >? >??--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >? >?? >? >??From: via Personal_Submersibles >? >??To: PSUBS >? >??Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? >??Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 15:06:13 -0500 >? >?? >? >??I was wondering if anyone could help me out. I am planning on doing a presentation at Underwater Intervention about the Pisces VI submarine. I am wanting to show the components of the submarine how the sub originally was and then how we are changing it. I am not trained in CAD and was wondering if there is someone out there that could easily do this? >? >?? >? >??Thank you, >? >??Scott Waters >? >??_______________________________________________ >? >??Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? >??Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? >??http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >?? >? >?? >? >??_______________________________________________ >? >??Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? >??Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? >??http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >?? >? _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >? _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 27 18:16:42 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 16:16:42 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: <232345767.542696.1464386123564.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1185938545.665149.1464385190133.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <232345767.542696.1464386123564.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7df67dff-491f-4acd-af82-7d4bddd7cf8d@email.android.com> Drawings only show you what was supposed to have been built. To document what actually exists requires verification of the dimensions using calibrated NIST traceable instruments. Sean On May 27, 2016 3:55:23 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Scott must have technical drawings that came with the sub, heck I have >them for GammaSurly those could be used as?reference of existing >dimensions.Hank > >On Friday, May 27, 2016 3:39 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > >All this advice hinges on the premises that ABS are going to acceptthe >measurements that any unqualified Wally will provide them. To >meit?would be a difficult job finding and documenting any out of >roundness & deviation of thickness along with the penetration >thicknesses & contours.?? Perhaps find out first if they have any >requirements regarding theprofessionalism of the person & process for >measuring the hull, as the FEA will be based on those measurements. If >they do require a certified professional to supply them with >drawings,then any 3D images for conference could be taken from >that.Cheers Alan > >From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 8:04 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation > >Cliff,Which software is most easily learned? I have no CAD experience. >All my design work in the past was all sketched out on a bar napkin. >Haha.Thank you,Scott Waters > > >Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > >-------- Original message -------- >From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > >Date: 05/27/2016 8:52 AM (GMT-06:00) >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation > >Scott, I have been thinking about your request for CAD assistance for >upcoming presentation.? I think?with your?Pisces VI build, you really >have both tactical and strategic technical drawing needs.? Let look at >the long range strategic need first.? Because you are going to make >some changes to the boat, ABS is going to make you submit a report that >among other things has a drawings set that reflects the current build, >a weights and balance and buoyant accounting that rolls up the new CG >and CB of the boat and a stress analysis of the pressure hull both in >the form of the ABS hull stress calculations and an FEA.??? The best >way to get these is through a 3-D modeling package like Autodesk >Inventor Pro or Solidworks.? My suggestion is to invest in one of the >software packages and take a basic 3-D modeling training course on the >software.? You then crawl into the belly of the beast with your tape >measure and digital caliper and take the dimensions of each part and >then model it in the 3-D modeling software.? After you get all the >parts modeled, you them make up assemblies of these parts that will >enable you to turn out the 2-D prints of the parts and assemblies. ? >From this 3-D model, of your?Pisces VI, you then can extract the CB, CG >of the boat.? All of these 3-D software packages let you export STEP >files of the model that can be read by the FEA software Sean uses.? If >you pay some one to build this 3-D model, first of all it will cost a >lot of money?and every time you change anything you will have to go >back the guy for an update.? In the long run, having this skill set >(3-D modeling) will be very useful for future mechanical projects off >all types.? >From a tactical perspective, what people are most interested in,?from >my perspective, on your renovation is what is the state of the boat at >the time you acquired it documented by lots of pictures, and what the >big pictures is on what you think you will need to do to get your ABS >A1?recertification and lastly what are the major structural changes you >are planning.? I don't know how much time you have for your >presentation but my guess is 20 minutes or so.? If this is the case, on >average you can count on about 1 min per slide so you have 20 slides to >present.? This does not leave much time for presenting CAD work.? You >might be able to get away with the basic drawing tools in Power point >for these few slides on the changes.? >Make sure you put a slide in for your new mega shop which we are all >salivating over and how you are going to dive this boat when your done >in Kansas! >Cliff >On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 10:41 AM, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >OK. Thanks for the information > >Scott Waters > >>? -------Original Message------- >>? From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > >>? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >>? Sent: May 26 '16 10:30 >> >>? Yeah, but it's very intuitive once you get into it.??Plus you could >generate data to make parts using a CNC.??More computer power = good >thing ! >> >>? Brian >> >>? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >>? From: via Personal_Submersibles >>? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >>? Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 09:30:35 -0500 >> >>? I am worried about the amount of time it would take me to learn to >be good with the software. From my understanding, it is quite the ramp >up time. >> >>? Thank you, >>? Scott Waters >> >>? >??-------Original Message------- >>? >??From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > >>? >??To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>? >??Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >>? >??Sent: May 25 '16 19:09 >>? >?? >>? >??Scott,?? You might want to think about getting set up with >"machine works" it's a type of cad program that integrates into CNC and >also has some FEA capability ( very advanced stuff) .??But you would >need some serious computer power to run the program.??But then designed >components could then be coded for machining, it has extensive modeling >etc.. ,??state of the art stuff.?? -??Brian?? >>? >?? >>? >??--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>? >?? >>? >??From: via Personal_Submersibles >>? >??To: PSUBS >>? >??Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >>? >??Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 15:06:13 -0500 >>? >?? >>? >??I was wondering if anyone could help me out. I am planning on >doing a presentation at Underwater Intervention about the Pisces VI >submarine. I am wanting to show the components of the submarine how the >sub originally was and then how we are changing it. I am not trained in >CAD and was wondering if there is someone out there that could easily >do this? >>? >?? >>? >??Thank you, >>? >??Scott Waters >>? >??_______________________________________________ >>? >??Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>? >??Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>? >??http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>? >?? >>? >?? >>? >??_______________________________________________ >>? >??Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>? >??Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>? >??http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>? >?? >>? _______________________________________________ >>? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >>? _______________________________________________ >>? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 27 18:45:44 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 22:45:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: <7df67dff-491f-4acd-af82-7d4bddd7cf8d@email.android.com> References: <1185938545.665149.1464385190133.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <232345767.542696.1464386123564.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <7df67dff-491f-4acd-af82-7d4bddd7cf8d@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1626245355.637015.1464389144975.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Getting back to Scotts original post, I think he just wants somesimple drawings for illustrative purposes for the conference.?? Can you give some detail on what drawings you may requireScott. Is it going to involve drawing the whole sub or just thingslike slices through the pressure hull.Alan From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Drawings only show you what was supposed to have been built.To document what actually exists requires verification of the dimensions using calibrated NIST traceable instruments.Sean On May 27, 2016 3:55:23 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott must have technical drawings that came with the sub, heck I have them for GammaSurly those could be used as?reference of existing dimensions.Hank On Friday, May 27, 2016 3:39 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All this advice hinges on the premises that ABS are going to acceptthe measurements that any unqualified Wally will provide them. To meit?would be a difficult job finding and documenting any out of roundness & deviation of thickness along with the penetrationthicknesses & contours.?? Perhaps find out first if they have any requirements regarding theprofessionalism of the person & process for measuring the hull, as the FEA will be based on those measurements. If they do require a certified professional to supply them with drawings,then any 3D images for conference could be taken from that.Cheers Alan From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Cliff,Which software is most easily learned? I have no CAD experience. All my design work in the past was all sketched out on a bar napkin. Haha.Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Date: 05/27/2016 8:52 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Scott, I have been thinkin! g aboutyour request for CAD assistance for upcoming presentation.? I think?with your?Pisces VI build, you really have both tactical and strategic technical drawing needs.? Let look at the long range strategic need first.? Because you are going to make some changes to the boat, ABS is going to make you submit a report that among other things has a drawings set that reflects the current build, a weights and balance and buoyant accounting that rolls up the new CG and CB of the boat and a stress analysis of the pressure hull both in the form of the ABS hull stress calculations and an FEA.??? The best way to get these is through a 3-D modeling package like Autodesk Inventor Pro or Solidworks.? My suggestion is to invest in one of the software packages and take a basic 3-D modeling training course on the software.? You then crawl into the belly of the beast with your tape measure and digital caliper and take the dimensions of each part an! d thenmodel it in the 3-D modeling software.? After you get all the parts modeled, you them make up assemblies of these parts that will enable you to turn out the 2-D prints of the parts and assemblies. ? From this 3-D model, of your?Pisces VI, you then can extract the CB, CG of the boat.? All of these 3-D software packages let you export STEP files of the model that can be read by the FEA software Sean uses.? If you pay some one to build this 3-D model, first of all it will cost a lot of money?and every time you change anything you will have to go back the guy for an update.? In the long run, having this skill set (3-D modeling) will be very useful for future mechanical projects off all types.? >From a tactical perspective, what people are most interested in,?from my perspective, on your renovation is what is the state of the boat at the time you acquired it documented by lots of pictures, and wh! at thebig pictures is on what you think you will need to do to get your ABS A1?recertification and lastly what are the major structural changes you are planning.? I don't know how much time you have for your presentation but my guess is 20 minutes or so.? If this is the case, on average you can count on about 1 min per slide so you have 20 slides to present.? This does not leave much time for presenting CAD work.? You might be able to get away with the basic drawing tools in Power point for these few slides on the changes.? Make sure you put a slide in for your new mega shop which we are all salivating over and how you are going to dive this boat when your done in Kansas! Cliff On Thu, May 26, 2016 at ! 10:41AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: OK. Thanks for the information Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? Sent: May 26 '16 10:30 > >? Yeah, but it's very intuitive once you get into it.??Plus you could generate data to make parts using a CNC.??More computer power = good thing ! > >? Brian > >? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >? From: via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 09:30:35 -0500 > >? I am worried about the amount of time it would take me to learn to be good with the software. From my understanding, it is quite the ramp up time. > >? Thank you, >? Scott Waters > >? >??-------Original Message------- >? >??From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >? >??To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? >??Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? >??Sent: May 25 '16 19:09 >? >?? >? >??Scott,?? You might want to think about getting set up with "machine works" it's a type of cad program that integrates into CNC and also has some FEA capability ( very advanced stuff) .??But you would need some serious computer power to run the program.??But then designed components could then be coded for machining, it has extensive modeling etc.. ,??state of the art stuff.?? -??Brian?? >? >?? >? >??--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >? >?? >? >??From: via Personal_Submersibles >? >??To: PSUBS >? >??Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? >??Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 15:06:13 -0500 >? >?? >? >??I was wondering if anyone could help me out. I am planning on doing a presentation at Underwater Intervention about the Pisces VI submarine. I am wanting to show the components of the submarine how the sub originally was and then how we are changing it. I am not trained in CAD and was wondering if there is someone out there that could easily do this? >? >?? >? >??Thank you, >? >??Scott Waters >? >??_______________________________________________ >? >??Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? >?? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 27 18:47:57 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 22:47:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: <7df67dff-491f-4acd-af82-7d4bddd7cf8d@email.android.com> References: <1185938545.665149.1464385190133.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <232345767.542696.1464386123564.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <7df67dff-491f-4acd-af82-7d4bddd7cf8d@email.android.com> Message-ID: <516474131.518933.1464389277418.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> The sub was certified though based on the drawings. ?Surely the ABS inspectors were satisfied the sub matched the ?drawings. I suppose the dimensions could have changed though with use and?possible damage.Hank On Friday, May 27, 2016 4:16 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Drawings only show you what was supposed to have been built.To document what actually exists requires verification of the dimensions using calibrated NIST traceable instruments.Sean On May 27, 2016 3:55:23 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott must have technical drawings that came with the sub, heck I have them for GammaSurly those could be used as?reference of existing dimensions.Hank On Friday, May 27, 2016 3:39 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All this advice hinges on the premises that ABS are going to acceptthe measurements that any unqualified Wally will provide them. To meit?would be a difficult job finding and documenting any out of roundness & deviation of thickness along with the penetrationthicknesses & contours.?? Perhaps find out first if they have any requirements regarding theprofessionalism of the person & process for measuring the hull, as the FEA will be based on those measurements. If they do require a certified professional to supply them with drawings,then any 3D images for conference could be taken from that.Cheers Alan From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Cliff,Which software is most easily learned? I have no CAD experience. All my design work in the past was all sketched out on a bar napkin. Haha.Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Date: 05/27/2016 8:52 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Scott, I have been thinkin! g aboutyour request for CAD assistance for upcoming presentation.? I think?with your?Pisces VI build, you really have both tactical and strategic technical drawing needs.? Let look at the long range strategic need first.? Because you are going to make some changes to the boat, ABS is going to make you submit a report that among other things has a drawings set that reflects the current build, a weights and balance and buoyant accounting that rolls up the new CG and CB of the boat and a stress analysis of the pressure hull both in the form of the ABS hull stress calculations and an FEA.??? The best way to get these is through a 3-D modeling package like Autodesk Inventor Pro or Solidworks.? My suggestion is to invest in one of the software packages and take a basic 3-D modeling training course on the software.? You then crawl into the belly of the beast with your tape measure and digital caliper and take the dimensions of each part an! d thenmodel it in the 3-D modeling software.? After you get all the parts modeled, you them make up assemblies of these parts that will enable you to turn out the 2-D prints of the parts and assemblies. ? From this 3-D model, of your?Pisces VI, you then can extract the CB, CG of the boat.? All of these 3-D software packages let you export STEP files of the model that can be read by the FEA software Sean uses.? If you pay some one to build this 3-D model, first of all it will cost a lot of money?and every time you change anything you will have to go back the guy for an update.? In the long run, having this skill set (3-D modeling) will be very useful for future mechanical projects off all types.? >From a tactical perspective, what people are most interested in,?from my perspective, on your renovation is what is the state of the boat at the time you acquired it documented by lots of pictures, and wh! at thebig pictures is on what you think you will need to do to get your ABS A1?recertification and lastly what are the major structural changes you are planning.? I don't know how much time you have for your presentation but my guess is 20 minutes or so.? If this is the case, on average you can count on about 1 min per slide so you have 20 slides to present.? This does not leave much time for presenting CAD work.? You might be able to get away with the basic drawing tools in Power point for these few slides on the changes.? Make sure you put a slide in for your new mega shop which we are all salivating over and how you are going to dive this boat when your done in Kansas! Cliff On Thu, May 26, 2016 at ! 10:41AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: OK. Thanks for the information Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? Sent: May 26 '16 10:30 > >? Yeah, but it's very intuitive once you get into it.??Plus you could generate data to make parts using a CNC.??More computer power = good thing ! > >? Brian > >? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >? From: via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 09:30:35 -0500 > >? I am worried about the amount of time it would take me to learn to be good with the software. From my understanding, it is quite the ramp up time. > >? Thank you, >? Scott Waters > >? >??-------Original Message------- >? >??From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >? >??To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? >??Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? >??Sent: May 25 '16 19:09 >? >?? >? >??Scott,?? You might want to think about getting set up with "machine works" it's a type of cad program that integrates into CNC and also has some FEA capability ( very advanced stuff) .??But you would need some serious computer power to run the program.??But then designed components could then be coded for machining, it has extensive modeling etc.. ,??state of the art stuff.?? -??Brian?? >? >?? >? >??--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >? >?? >? >??From: via Personal_Submersibles >? >??To: PSUBS >? >??Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? >??Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 15:06:13 -0500 >? >?? >? >??I was wondering if anyone could help me out. I am planning on doing a presentation at Underwater Intervention about the Pisces VI submarine. I am wanting to show the components of the submarine how the sub originally was and then how we are changing it. I am not trained in CAD and was wondering if there is someone out there that could easily do this? >? >?? >? >??Thank you, >? >??Scott Waters >? >??_______________________________________________ >? >??Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? >?? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 27 18:58:26 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 17:58:26 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Message-ID: <2gdbajttxoscnxodya9hehpv.1464389906474@email.android.com> Hank,I have all the original operations manuals, dive logs, and some blue prints. I am missing the original ABS cert, but I found out how to get it. I am also missing some of the critical blue prints. I am trying to find them from some other sources. I am going to be meeting with ABS later on before my hydrotest to see what all they will require. We are pushing for a recert of a lapsed cert vehical rather than a new cert.Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 05/27/2016 4:55 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Scott must have technical drawings that came with the sub, heck I have them for GammaSurly those could be used as?reference of existing dimensions.Hank On Friday, May 27, 2016 3:39 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All this advice hinges on the premises that ABS are going to acceptthe measurements that any unqualified Wally will provide them. To meit?would be a difficult job finding and documenting any out of roundness & deviation of thickness along with the penetration thicknesses & contours.?? Perhaps find out first if they have any requirements regarding theprofessionalism of the person & process for measuring the hull, as the FEA will be based on those measurements. If they do require a certified professional to supply them with drawings,then any 3D images for conference could be taken from that.Cheers Alan From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Cliff,Which software is most easily learned? I have no CAD experience. All my design work in the past was all sketched out on a bar napkin. Haha.Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Date: 05/27/2016 8:52 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Scott, I have been thinking about your request for CAD assistance for upcoming presentation.? I think?with your?Pisces VI build, you really have both tactical and strategic technical drawing needs.? Let look at the long range strategic need first.? Because you are going to make some changes to the boat, ABS is going to make you submit a report that among other things has a drawings set that reflects the current build, a weights and balance and buoyant accounting that rolls up the new CG and CB of the boat and a stress analysis of the pressure hull both in the form of the ABS hull stress calculations and an FEA.??? The best way to get these is through a 3-D modeling package like Autodesk Inventor Pro or Solidworks.? My suggestion is to invest in one of the software packages and take a basic 3-D modeling training course on the software.? You then crawl into the belly of the beast with your tape measure and digital caliper and take the dimensions of each part and then model it in the 3-D modeling software.? After you get all the parts modeled, you them make up assemblies of these parts that will enable you to turn out the 2-D prints of the parts and assemblies. ? From this 3-D model, of your?Pisces VI, you then can extract the CB, CG of the boat.? All of these 3-D software packages let you export STEP files of the model that can be read by the FEA software Sean uses.? If you pay some one to build this 3-D model, first of all it will cost a lot of money?and every time you change anything you will have to go back the guy for an update.? In the long run, having this skill set (3-D modeling) will be very useful for future mechanical projects off all types.? From a tactical perspective, what people are most interested in,?from my perspective, on your renovation is what is the state of the boat at the time you acquired it documented by lots of pictures, and what the big pictures is on what you think you will need to do to get your ABS A1?recertification and lastly what are the major structural changes you are planning.? I don't know how much time you have for your presentation but my guess is 20 minutes or so.? If this is the case, on average you can count on about 1 min per slide so you have 20 slides to present.? This does not leave much time for presenting CAD work.? You might be able to get away with the basic drawing tools in Power point for these few slides on the changes.? Make sure you put a slide in for your new mega shop which we are all salivating over and how you are going to dive this boat when your done in Kansas! Cliff On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 10:41 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: OK. Thanks for the information Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? Sent: May 26 '16 10:30 > >? Yeah, but it's very intuitive once you get into it.??Plus you could generate data to make parts using a CNC.??More computer power = good thing ! > >? Brian > >? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >? From: via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 09:30:35 -0500 > >? I am worried about the amount of time it would take me to learn to be good with the software. From my understanding, it is quite the ramp up time. > >? Thank you, >? Scott Waters > >? >??-------Original Message------- >? >??From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >? >??To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? >??Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? >??Sent: May 25 '16 19:09 >? >?? >? >??Scott,?? You might want to think about getting set up with "machine works" it's a type of cad program that integrates into CNC and also has some FEA capability ( very advanced stuff) .??But you would need some serious computer power to run the program.??But then designed components could then be coded for machining, it has extensive modeling etc.. ,??state of the art stuff.?? -??Brian?? >? >?? >? >??--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >? >?? >? >??From: via Personal_Submersibles >? >??To: PSUBS >? >??Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? >??Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 15:06:13 -0500 >? >?? >? >??I was wondering if anyone could help me out. I am planning on doing a presentation at Underwater Intervention about the Pisces VI submarine. I am wanting to show the components of the submarine how the sub originally was and then how we are changing it. I am not trained in CAD and was wondering if there is someone out there that could easily do this? >? >?? >? >??Thank you, >? >??Scott Waters >? >??_______________________________________________ >? >??Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? >??Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? >??http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >?? >? >?? >? >??_______________________________________________ >? >??Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? >??Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? >??http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >?? >? _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >? _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 27 19:00:12 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 18:00:12 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Message-ID: Alan,I think the advice of just learning a full scale system is good because I will have to do it anyway. The drawings for presentation pourposes are nice, but not required for the ultimate goal.Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Date: 05/27/2016 5:45 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Getting back to Scotts original post, I think he just wants somesimple drawings for illustrative purposes for the conference.?? Can you give some detail on what drawings you may requireScott. Is it going to involve drawing the whole sub or just thingslike slices through the pressure hull.Alan From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Drawings only show you what was supposed to have been built. To document what actually exists requires verification of the dimensions using calibrated NIST traceable instruments. Sean On May 27, 2016 3:55:23 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott must have technical drawings that came with the sub, heck I have them for GammaSurly those could be used as?reference of existing dimensions.Hank On Friday, May 27, 2016 3:39 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All this advice hinges on the premises that ABS are going to acceptthe measurements that any unqualified Wally will provide them. To meit?would be a difficult job finding and documenting any out of roundness & deviation of thickness along with the penetration thicknesses & contours.?? Perhaps find out first if they have any requirements regarding theprofessionalism of the person & process for measuring the hull, as the FEA will be based on those measurements. If they do require a certified professional to supply them with drawings,then any 3D images for conference could be taken from that.Cheers Alan From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Cliff,Which software is most easily learned? I have no CAD experience. All my design work in the past was all sketched out on a bar napkin. Haha.Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Date: 05/27/2016 8:52 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Scott, I have been thinkin! g about your request for CAD assistance for upcoming presentation.? I think?with your?Pisces VI build, you really have both tactical and strategic technical drawing needs.? Let look at the long range strategic need first.? Because you are going to make some changes to the boat, ABS is going to make you submit a report that among other things has a drawings set that reflects the current build, a weights and balance and buoyant accounting that rolls up the new CG and CB of the boat and a stress analysis of the pressure hull both in the form of the ABS hull stress calculations and an FEA.??? The best way to get these is through a 3-D modeling package like Autodesk Inventor Pro or Solidworks.? My suggestion is to invest in one of the software packages and take a basic 3-D modeling training course on the software.? You then crawl into the belly of the beast with your tape measure and digital caliper and take the dimensions of each part an! d then model it in the 3-D modeling software.? After you get all the parts modeled, you them make up assemblies of these parts that will enable you to turn out the 2-D prints of the parts and assemblies. ? From this 3-D model, of your?Pisces VI, you then can extract the CB, CG of the boat.? All of these 3-D software packages let you export STEP files of the model that can be read by the FEA software Sean uses.? If you pay some one to build this 3-D model, first of all it will cost a lot of money?and every time you change anything you will have to go back the guy for an update.? In the long run, having this skill set (3-D modeling) will be very useful for future mechanical projects off all types.? From a tactical perspective, what people are most interested in,?from my perspective, on your renovation is what is the state of the boat at the time you acquired it documented by lots of pictures, and wh! at the big pictures is on what you think you will need to do to get your ABS A1?recertification and lastly what are the major structural changes you are planning.? I don't know how much time you have for your presentation but my guess is 20 minutes or so.? If this is the case, on average you can count on about 1 min per slide so you have 20 slides to present.? This does not leave much time for presenting CAD work.? You might be able to get away with the basic drawing tools in Power point for these few slides on the changes.? Make sure you put a slide in for your new mega shop which we are all salivating over and how you are going to dive this boat when your done in Kansas! Cliff On Thu, May 26, 2016 at ! 10:41 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: OK. Thanks for the information Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? Sent: May 26 '16 10:30 > >? Yeah, but it's very intuitive once you get into it.??Plus you could generate data to make parts using a CNC.??More computer power = good thing ! > >? Brian > >? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >? From: via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 09:30:35 -0500 > >? I am worried about the amount of time it would take me to learn to be good with the software. From my understanding, it is quite the ramp up time. > >? Thank you, >? Scott Waters > >? >??-------Original Message------- >? >??From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >? >??To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? >??Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? >??Sent: May 25 '16 19:09 >? >?? >? >??Scott,?? You might want to think about getting set up with "machine works" it's a type of cad program that integrates into CNC and also has some FEA capability ( very advanced stuff) .??But you would need some serious computer power to run the program.??But then designed components could then be coded for machining, it has extensive modeling etc.. ,??state of the art stuff.?? -??Brian?? >? >?? >? >??--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >? >?? >? >??From: via Personal_Submersibles >? >??To: PSUBS >? >??Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? >??Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 15:06:13 -0500 >? >?? >? >??I was wondering if anyone could help me out. I am planning on doing a presentation at Underwater Intervention about the Pisces VI submarine. I am wanting to show the components of the submarine how the sub originally was and then how we are changing it. I am not trained in CAD and was wondering if there is someone out there that could easily do this? >? >?? >? >??Thank you, >? >??Scott Waters >? >??_______________________________________________ >? >??Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? >?? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 27 19:14:38 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 16:14:38 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Message-ID: <20160527161438.EE36D06C@m0087794.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 27 19:20:51 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 16:20:51 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass Message-ID: <20160527162051.EE36D09F@m0087794.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 27 19:25:35 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 23:25:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass In-Reply-To: <20160527162051.EE36D09F@m0087794.ppops.net> References: <20160527162051.EE36D09F@m0087794.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1526595450.543083.1464391535871.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,I find that is a problem, I just roll resin on the surface first then apply dry matt and roll over with resin to soak. ?I can't get a reliable soak without applying resin first. ?Hank On Friday, May 27, 2016 5:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,??? I wanted to mention that some of my brilliant upside down fiberglass work did not go that great.? I did not get the adhesion that I should have, some place seemed fine but other areas I didn't get the resin to soak in good enough.? I may try something else next time.? I may put an initial coat of resin on the underside, soak the fiberglass and then try to compress it up there some how with a plastic mold release barrier.?Brian? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 27 19:53:06 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 23:53:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass In-Reply-To: <20160527162051.EE36D09F@m0087794.ppops.net> References: <20160527162051.EE36D09F@m0087794.ppops.net> Message-ID: <25373669.648944.1464393186664.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,something you could experiment with is applying epoxy to the?glass mat?thatyou want to adhere or on the sub itself & wait till it gets tacky before applying it. Then apply the rest of the epoxy later, wait till the last coat gets tacky & add some moreglass?cloth.?You could take your time with that process, but the epoxy is twice the cost of the polyester.Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: PSubs Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 11:20 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fiberglass Hank,??? I wanted to mention that some of my brilliant upside down fiberglass work did not go that great.? I did not get the adhesion that I should have, some place seemed fine but other areas I didn't get the resin to soak in good enough.? I may try something else next time.? I may put an initial coat of resin on the underside, soak the fiberglass and then try to compress it up there some how with a plastic mold release barrier.?Brian? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 27 19:57:15 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jerry Koontz via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 19:57:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 35, Issue 77 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <669225469.254288.1464393435088.JavaMail.root@md20.quartz.synacor.com> Sounds like a good idea to get Solidworks or Autodesk Inventor, but they are not all that easy to learn. I have been using Autodesk Inventor for the last three years, but it took a year of using it to really figure out what to do. I have also used Solidworks and fine that until the new Inventor came out that the FEA would have been better in Solidworks, but now Autodesk Inventor top the list. ----- Original Message ----- From: "via Personal_Submersibles" To: "personal submersibles" Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 5:59:58 PM Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 35, Issue 77 Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: CAD for presentation (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 18:00:12 -0500 From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Alan,I think the advice of just learning a full scale system is good because I will have to do it anyway. The drawings for presentation pourposes are nice, but not required for the ultimate goal.Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Date: 05/27/2016 5:45 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Getting back to Scotts original post, I think he just wants somesimple drawings for illustrative purposes for the conference.?? Can you give some detail on what drawings you may requireScott. Is it going to involve drawing the whole sub or just thingslike slices through the pressure hull.Alan From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Drawings only show you what was supposed to have been built. To document what actually exists requires verification of the dimensions using calibrated NIST traceable instruments. Sean On May 27, 2016 3:55:23 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott must have technical drawings that came with the sub, heck I have them for GammaSurly those could be used as?reference of existing dimensions.Hank On Friday, May 27, 2016 3:39 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All this advice hinges on the premises that ABS are going to acceptthe measurements that any unqualified Wally will provide them. To meit?would be a difficult job finding and documenting any out of roundness & deviation of thickness along with the penetration thicknesses & contours.?? Perhaps find out first if they have any requirements regarding theprofessionalism of the person & process for measuring the hull, as the FEA will be based on those measurements. If they do require a certified professional to supply them with drawings,then any 3D images for conference could be taken from that.Cheers Alan From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Cliff,Which software is most easily learned? I have no CAD experience. All my design work in the past was all sketched out on a bar napkin. Haha.Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Date: 05/27/2016 8:52 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Scott, I have been thinkin! g about your request for CAD assistance for upcoming presentation.? I think?with your?Pisces VI build, you really have both tactical and strategic technical drawing needs.? Let look at the long range strategic need first.? Because you are going to make some changes to the boat, ABS is going to make you submit a report that among other things has a drawings set that reflects the current build, a weights and balance and buoyant accounting that rolls up the new CG and CB of the boat and a stress analysis of the pressure hull both in the form of the ABS hull stress calculations and an FEA.??? The best way to get these is through a 3-D modeling package like Autodesk Inventor Pro or Solidworks.? My suggestion is to invest in one of the software packages and take a basic 3-D modeling training course on the software.? You then crawl into the belly of the beast with your tape measure and digital caliper and take the dimensions of each part an! d then model it in the 3-D modeling software.? After you get all the parts modeled, you them make up assemblies of these parts that will enable you to turn out the 2-D prints of the parts and assemblies. ? From this 3-D model, of your?Pisces VI, you then can extract the CB, CG of the boat.? All of these 3-D software packages let you export STEP files of the model that can be read by the FEA software Sean uses.? If you pay some one to build this 3-D model, first of all it will cost a lot of money?and every time you change anything you will have to go back the guy for an update.? In the long run, having this skill set (3-D modeling) will be very useful for future mechanical projects off all types.? >From a tactical perspective, what people are most interested in,?from my perspective, on your renovation is what is the state of the boat at the time you acquired it documented by lots of pictures, and wh! at the big pictures is on what you think you will need to do to get your ABS A1?recertification and lastly what are the major structural changes you are planning.? I don't know how much time you have for your presentation but my guess is 20 minutes or so.? If this is the case, on average you can count on about 1 min per slide so you have 20 slides to present.? This does not leave much time for presenting CAD work.? You might be able to get away with the basic drawing tools in Power point for these few slides on the changes.? Make sure you put a slide in for your new mega shop which we are all salivating over and how you are going to dive this boat when your done in Kansas! Cliff On Thu, May 26, 2016 at ! 10:41 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: OK. Thanks for the information Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? Sent: May 26 '16 10:30 > >? Yeah, but it's very intuitive once you get into it.??Plus you could generate data to make parts using a CNC.??More computer power = good thing ! > >? Brian > >? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >? From: via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 09:30:35 -0500 > >? I am worried about the amount of time it would take me to learn to be good with the software. From my understanding, it is quite the ramp up time. > >? Thank you, >? Scott Waters > >? >??-------Original Message------- >? >??From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >? >??To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? >??Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? >??Sent: May 25 '16 19:09 >? >?? >? >??Scott,?? You might want to think about getting set up with "machine works" it's a type of cad program that integrates into CNC and also has some FEA capability ( very advanced stuff) .??But you would need some serious computer power to run the program.??But then designed components could then be coded for machining, it has extensive modeling etc.. ,??state of the art stuff.?? -??Brian?? >? >?? >? >??--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >? >?? >? >??From: via Personal_Submersibles >? >??To: PSUBS >? >??Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? >??Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 15:06:13 -0500 >? >?? >? >??I was wondering if anyone could help me out. I am planning on doing a presentation at Underwater Intervention about the Pisces VI submarine. I am wanting to show the components of the submarine how the sub originally was and then how we are changing it. I am not trained in CAD and was wondering if there is someone out there that could easily do this? >? >?? >? >??Thank you, >? >??Scott Waters >? >??_______________________________________________ >? >??Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? >?? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 35, Issue 77 ***************************************************** From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 27 20:03:44 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 28 May 2016 00:03:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1667619795.756850.1464393824263.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Scott,I bought Rhino 5 & Orca, which is a plug in to Rhino & the most popularmarine design program. Haven't touched Orca yet but found Rhino 5 wasmanageable to learn.I spent 4 hrs. at a ?Solid Works seminar just learning the updates from oneyear to the next. Some of these programs are so big that it's only worth learning them if you are intending to use them 20 hrs. a week & want to dedicate?a year or so learning them.I am finding Rhino 5 totally adequate for designing parts.Alan From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Alan,I think the advice of just learning a full scale system is good because I will have to do it anyway. The drawings for presentation pourposes are nice, but not required for the ultimate goal.Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Date: 05/27/2016 5:45 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Getting back to Scotts original post, I think he just wants somesimple drawings for illustrative purposes for the conference.?? Can you give some detail on what drawings you may requireScott. Is it going to involve drawing the whole sub or just thingslike slices through the pressure hull.Alan From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Drawings only show you what was supposed to have been built.To document what actually exists requires verification of the dimensions using calibrated NIST traceable instruments.Sean On May 27, 2016 3:55:23 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott must have technical drawings that came with the sub, heck I have them for GammaSurly those could be used as?reference of existing dimensions.Hank On Friday, May 27, 2016 3:39 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All this advice hinges on the premises that ABS are going to acceptthe measurements that any unqualified Wally will provide them. To meit?would be a difficult job finding and documenting any out of roundness & deviation of thickness along with the penetrationthicknesses & contours.?? Perhaps find out first if they have any requirements regarding theprofessionalism of the person & process for measuring the hull, as the FEA will be based on those measurements. If they do require a certified professional to supply them with drawings,then any 3D images for conference could be taken from that.Cheers Alan From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Cliff,Which software is most easily learned? I have no CAD experience. All my design work in the past was all sketched out on a bar napkin. Haha.Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Date: 05/27/2016 8:52 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Scott, I have been thinkin! g aboutyour request for CAD assistance for upcoming presentation.? I think?with your?Pisces VI build, you really have both tactical and strategic technical drawing needs.? Let look at the long range strategic need first.? Because you are going to make some changes to the boat, ABS is going to make you submit a report that among other things has a drawings set that reflects the current build, a weights and balance and buoyant accounting that rolls up the new CG and CB of the boat and a stress analysis of the pressure hull both in the form of the ABS hull stress calculations and an FEA.??? The best way to get these is through a 3-D modeling package like Autodesk Inventor Pro or Solidworks.? My suggestion is to invest in one of the software packages and take a basic 3-D modeling training course on the software.? You then crawl into the belly of the beast with your tape measure and digital caliper and take the dimensions of each part an! d thenmodel it in the 3-D modeling software.? After you get all the parts modeled, you them make up assemblies of these parts that will enable you to turn out the 2-D prints of the parts and assemblies. ? From this 3-D model, of your?Pisces VI, you then can extract the CB, CG of the boat.? All of these 3-D software packages let you export STEP files of the model that can be read by the FEA software Sean uses.? If you pay some one to build this 3-D model, first of all it will cost a lot of money?and every time you change anything you will have to go back the guy for an update.? In the long run, having this skill set (3-D modeling) will be very useful for future mechanical projects off all types.? >From a tactical perspective, what people are most interested in,?from my perspective, on your renovation is what is the state of the boat at the time you acquired it documented by lots of pictures, and wh! at thebig pictures is on what you think you will need to do to get your ABS A1?recertification and lastly what are the major structural changes you are planning.? I don't know how much time you have for your presentation but my guess is 20 minutes or so.? If this is the case, on average you can count on about 1 min per slide so you have 20 slides to present.? This does not leave much time for presenting CAD work.? You might be able to get away with the basic drawing tools in Power point for these few slides on the changes.? Make sure you put a slide in for your new mega shop which we are all salivating over and how you are going to dive this boat when your done in Kansas! Cliff On Thu, May 26, 2016 at ! 10:41AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: OK. Thanks for the information Scott Waters >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? Sent: May 26 '16 10:30 > >? Yeah, but it's very intuitive once you get into it.??Plus you could generate data to make parts using a CNC.??More computer power = good thing ! > >? Brian > >? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >? From: via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 09:30:35 -0500 > >? I am worried about the amount of time it would take me to learn to be good with the software. From my understanding, it is quite the ramp up time. > >? Thank you, >? Scott Waters > >? >??-------Original Message------- >? >??From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >? >??To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? >??Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? >??Sent: May 25 '16 19:09 >? >?? >? >??Scott,?? You might want to think about getting set up with "machine works" it's a type of cad program that integrates into CNC and also has some FEA capability ( very advanced stuff) .??But you would need some serious computer power to run the program.??But then designed components could then be coded for machining, it has extensive modeling etc.. ,??state of the art stuff.?? -??Brian?? >? >?? >? >??--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >? >?? >? >??From: via Personal_Submersibles >? >??To: PSUBS >? >??Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation >? >??Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 15:06:13 -0500 >? >?? >? >??I was wondering if anyone could help me out. I am planning on doing a presentation at Underwater Intervention about the Pisces VI submarine. I am wanting to show the components of the submarine how the sub originally was and then how we are changing it. I am not trained in CAD and was wondering if there is someone out there that could easily do this? >? >?? >? >??Thank you, >? >??Scott Waters >? >??_______________________________________________ >? >??Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? >?? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 27 20:17:52 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 19:17:52 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Message-ID: <6bty8uf3ww7i2fecqxrl7qcu.1464394672854@email.android.com> Will Rhino 5 and Orca work for loading into a FEA program?Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Date: 05/27/2016 7:03 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Scott,I bought Rhino 5 & Orca, which is a plug in to Rhino & the most popularmarine design program. Haven't touched Orca yet but found Rhino 5 wasmanageable to learn.I spent 4 hrs. at a ?Solid Works seminar just learning the updates from oneyear to the next. Some of these programs are so big that it's only worth learning them if you are intending to use them 20 hrs. a week & want to dedicate?a year or so learning them.I am finding Rhino 5 totally adequate for designing parts.Alan ????? From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation ?? Alan,I think the advice of just learning a full scale system is good because I will have to do it anyway. The drawings for presentation pourposes are -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 27 20:53:36 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 28 May 2016 00:53:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: <6bty8uf3ww7i2fecqxrl7qcu.1464394672854@email.android.com> References: <6bty8uf3ww7i2fecqxrl7qcu.1464394672854@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1553742741.665367.1464396816588.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> There is a rudimentary fea program called scan & solve, that is a plug infor Rhino 5. I have it but haven't needed to use it yet. I was on a scan & solvewebinar & tried to pin the lecturer down as to how accurate it was; buthe was very elusive. You can export to ??? for fea, forget the name, wasn't solid worksbut was another top program.When I went to the solid works seminar & talked with some of the professionalsabout fea, they were in fear & awe at the mention of it. So I am getting the impressionthat it is pretty specialized & difficult to get really accurate results. Sean mightadd to that. But hey technology moves on.You aren't an old guy like me, so you may want to learn a top program that willbe with you the rest of your life, but people go to tech college full time to learn theseprograms & if you aren't using them a lot you forget things.Alan From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Will Rhino 5 and Orca work for loading into a FEA program?Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Date: 05/27/2016 7:03 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Scott,I bought Rhino 5 & Orca, which is a plug in to Rhino & the most popularmarine design program. Haven't touched Orca yet but found Rhino 5 wasmanageable to learn.I spent 4 hrs. at a ?Solid Works seminar just learning the updates from oneyear to the next. Some of these programs are so big that it's only worth learning them if you are intending to use them 20 hrs. a week & want to dedicate?a year or so learning them.I am finding Rhino 5 totally adequate for designing parts.Alan ????? From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation ?? Alan,I think the advice of just learning a full scale system is good because I will have to do it anyway. The drawings for presentation pourposes are _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 27 22:17:13 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 28 May 2016 14:17:13 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: <1553742741.665367.1464396816588.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <6bty8uf3ww7i2fecqxrl7qcu.1464394672854@email.android.com> <1553742741.665367.1464396816588.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5748ff78.1314620a.8ffad.ffffa93e@mx.google.com> FEA on cheaper programmes is to be treated with caution. We did comparison between Solid Works FEA, Solid Edge FEA and actual measured deflection. Solid works showed 2mm deflection, Solid Edge showed 3.1mm deflection and actual measurement was .1 mm using a DTI. They are great programmes to show where stresses occur to assist design but they are a poor substitute for actual testing under proper conditions. Proper FEA should be left to the experts, as Sean says, as the meshing is critical to get good results. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 28 May 2016 12:54 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation There is a rudimentary fea program called scan & solve, that is a plug in for Rhino 5. I have it but haven't needed to use it yet. I was on a scan & solve webinar & tried to pin the lecturer down as to how accurate it was; but he was very elusive. You can export to ??? for fea, forget the name, wasn't solid works but was another top program. When I went to the solid works seminar & talked with some of the professionals about fea, they were in fear & awe at the mention of it. So I am getting the impression that it is pretty specialized & difficult to get really accurate results. Sean might add to that. But hey technology moves on. You aren't an old guy like me, so you may want to learn a top program that will be with you the rest of your life, but people go to tech college full time to learn these programs & if you aren't using them a lot you forget things. Alan _____ From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Will Rhino 5 and Orca work for loading into a FEA program? Thank you, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Date: 05/27/2016 7:03 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Scott,I bought Rhino 5 & Orca, which is a plug in to Rhino & the most popularmarine design program. Haven't touched Orca yet but found Rhino 5 wasmanageable to learn.I spent 4 hrs. at a Solid Works seminar just learning the updates from oneyear to the next. Some of these programs are so big that it's only worth learning them if you are intending to use them 20 hrs. a week & want to dedicate a year or so learning them.I am finding Rhino 5 totally adequate for designing parts.Alan From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation Alan,I think the advice of just learning a full scale system is good because I will have to do it anyway. The drawings for presentation pourposes are _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 27 22:23:33 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 22:23:33 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CAD for presentation In-Reply-To: <5748ff78.1314620a.8ffad.ffffa93e@mx.google.com> References: <6bty8uf3ww7i2fecqxrl7qcu.1464394672854@email.android.com> <1553742741.665367.1464396816588.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5748ff78.1314620a.8ffad.ffffa93e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <38af2636-316a-31ac-168d-6f68377ec99a@ohiohills.com> I have Delftship, a freebie but apparently comprehensive thing intended for surface ship design. (It was originally called Freeships, I think.) I have never been able to us it because the manual is damn near incomprehensible (it doesn't use some of the terminology I'm accustomed to seeing). If anyone can get it to do something useful, send me a personal message! Mike --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 28 20:03:58 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Mondosubmerso via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 28 May 2016 20:03:58 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K350 battery pod orings Message-ID: <000001d1b93d$99a38870$ccea9950$@gmail.com> Group, Anyone know the size or part numbers for the battery pod o-rings: the large main one and the two small ones on the bolt. Yes, I need to find a local supply house that has these things. :) Thanks, Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 28 22:25:26 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 28 May 2016 22:25:26 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K350 battery pod orings In-Reply-To: <000001d1b93d$99a38870$ccea9950$@gmail.com> References: <000001d1b93d$99a38870$ccea9950$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Brian, I'm not sure about the small ones because I don't have a K350, but the larger ones normally you make yourself. Just purchase O ring cord stock by the foot someplace like McMaster, slice it to suit, and join with a drop of superglue. Best, Alec On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 8:03 PM, Mondosubmerso via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Group, > > > > Anyone know the size or part numbers for the battery pod o-rings: the > large main one and the two small ones on the bolt. > > > > Yes, I need to find a local supply house that has these things. J > > > > Thanks, > > > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 29 06:26:05 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 29 May 2016 10:26:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Constant current LED driver References: <804520928.1069834.1464517565886.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <804520928.1069834.1464517565886.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> In case any one has come across one, I am looking for a DC/DC step down (buck driver) module with constant current adjustment.I need to drop the voltage from 50V input to 32-36 to drive my LEDs.There is this module...ZXY6005 2.6" DC~DC 60V Constant Voltage Current Regulated Power Supply Module - Green | | | | $ 46.19 | | | | | | | ZXY6005 2.6" DC~DC 60V Constant Voltage Current Regulated Power Supply... I like this from DX. Find the cool gadgets at a incredibly low price with worldwide free shipping here. | | | | it will do what I want, but is a bit big & expensive. One option is to buy a couple of these &just use the voltage step down function & run a number of smaller constant current drivers off it.For anyone running 36V, there are a heap of cheap constant current drivers & LEDs in thatrange to make up cheap & powerful lights.Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 29 06:31:54 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 29 May 2016 10:31:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Weight Loss References: <1256193667.1090449.1464517914070.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1256193667.1090449.1464517914070.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,just got some spam under the name of cliffordredus.It was a link to a weight loss program :)Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 29 11:53:19 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 29 May 2016 15:53:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K350 battery pod orings In-Reply-To: <000001d1b93d$99a38870$ccea9950$@gmail.com> References: <000001d1b93d$99a38870$ccea9950$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1923615869.1140096.1464537199555.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> >From the Plans "O" Ring Stillman No. A-278 (.139 x 12 I. D.) "O" Ring Stillman No. A-207 (.139 x .546 I. D.) From: Mondosubmerso via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 7:03 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K350 battery pod orings Group, ?Anyone know the size or part numbers for the battery pod o-rings: the large main one and the two small ones on the bolt. ?Yes, I need to find a local supply house that has these things. J ?Thanks, ?Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 29 12:50:49 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 29 May 2016 11:50:49 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Weight Loss In-Reply-To: <1256193667.1090449.1464517914070.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1256193667.1090449.1464517914070.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1256193667.1090449.1464517914070.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <32A9BDE5-C40B-4C9B-9692-88A4E9C77913@gmail.com> Spam for sure. I did not send. Cliff Redus > On May 29, 2016, at 5:31 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, > just got some spam under the name of cliffordredus. > It was a link to a weight loss program :) > Alan > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 30 14:10:57 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 30 May 2016 13:10:57 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Constant current LED driver In-Reply-To: <804520928.1069834.1464517565886.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <804520928.1069834.1464517565886.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <804520928.1069834.1464517565886.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan, this link says that they have the driver in stock. http://dx.affmania.com/en/id-151115/zxy6005-26-dc-dc-60v-constant-voltage-current-regulated-power-supply-module-green#.V0yByMb2ZD8 On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 5:26 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > In case any one has come across one, > I am looking for a DC/DC step down (buck driver) module with constant > current adjustment. > I need to drop the voltage from 50V input to 32-36 to drive my LEDs. > There is this module... > ZXY6005 2.6" DC~DC 60V Constant Voltage Current Regulated Power Supply > Module - Green > > > $ 46.19 > ZXY6005 2.6" DC~DC 60V Constant Voltage Current Regulated Power Supply... > I like this from DX. Find the cool gadgets at a incredibly low price with > worldwide free shipping here. > > > it will do what I want, but is a bit big & expensive. One option is to buy > a couple of these & > just use the voltage step down function & run a number of smaller constant > current drivers off it. > For anyone running 36V, there are a heap of cheap constant current drivers > & LEDs in that > range to make up cheap & powerful lights. > Alan > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 30 16:05:17 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 30 May 2016 20:05:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Constant current LED driver In-Reply-To: References: <804520928.1069834.1464517565886.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <804520928.1069834.1464517565886.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1696388770.1740547.1464638717706.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Cliff,it says "extreme deal" then links to Deal Extreme & says "out of stock".?? I have noticed a number of other high powered LED drivers out ofstock. These large LEDs ?must be very popular.I have some good 36V constant current drivers that I am running them offbut will eventually need that step down from my 48V system.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 6:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Constant current LED driver Alan, this link says that they have the driver in stock. http://dx.affmania.com/en/id-151115/zxy6005-26-dc-dc-60v-constant-voltage-current-regulated-power-supply-module-green#.V0yByMb2ZD8 On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 5:26 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: In case any one has come across one, I am looking for a DC/DC step down (buck driver) module with constant current adjustment.I need to drop the voltage from 50V input to 32-36 to drive my LEDs.There is this module...ZXY6005 2.6" DC~DC 60V Constant Voltage Current Regulated Power Supply Module - Green | | | | $ 46.19 | | | | | | | ZXY6005 2.6" DC~DC 60V Constant Voltage Current Regulated Power Supply... I like this from DX. Find the cool gadgets at a incredibly low price with worldwide free shipping here. | | | | it will do what I want, but is a bit big & expensive. One option is to buy a couple of these &just use the voltage step down function & run a number of smaller constant current drivers off it.For anyone running 36V, there are a heap of cheap constant current drivers & LEDs in thatrange to make up cheap & powerful lights.Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 30 17:03:36 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 30 May 2016 21:03:36 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?K350_battery_pod_orings?= Message-ID: <574cb997.c749810a.d7363.ffffdc38@mx.google.com> Thanks guys. I ordered an oring kit as I destroyed one them opening the starboard pod. Mark had already freed up the port side before I bought her. Near as I can tell, Harold silicon glued the orings into place. Seems like over kill to me. Brian Sent from Microsoft Surface -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 30 18:14:35 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 30 May 2016 22:14:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: manipulator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1533672496.1413139.1464646475344.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> For sale or trade, the?manipulator off Gamma. ?This manipulator is not the right unit for me anymore so there is no point in having it sitting around. ?I will sell it or trade with the valve unit and spare spools etc. It is set up with the pump inside the sub and the valve outside the sub.If interested message me at hankpronk at live.caHank On Monday, May 30, 2016 4:09 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2016-05-30 at 4.09 PM.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 32541 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 30 18:27:44 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 30 May 2016 22:27:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Constant current LED driver In-Reply-To: References: <804520928.1069834.1464517565886.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <804520928.1069834.1464517565886.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <607833138.1752902.1464647264440.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Perhaps I could go with this motor driver,?& set?the voltage down to 36V.Jtron PWM DC Motor Speed Controller - Green (15A / 6~90V) | | | | $ 6.80 | | | | | | | Jtron PWM DC Motor Speed Controller - Green (15A / 6~90V) I like this from DX. Find the cool gadgets at a incredibly low price with worldwide free shipping here. | | | | Then use this constant current driver (75W max)Constant Voltage Constant Current DC-DC Power Module for Arduino | | | | $ 4.71 | | | | | | | Constant Voltage Constant Current DC-DC Power Module for Arduino I like this from DX. Find the cool gadgets at a incredibly low price with worldwide free shipping here. | | | | I could have 2 constant current modules running off the motor speed controller,so a total of $16:22 to run two 50W LEDs.?? What I am not sure of is whether the input capacitors on the constant currentdrivers would be killed eventually by the PWM (16KHz). Or whether I can wire a differentcapacitor between the two units to avoid this.Are you listening in Ken?Cheers Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 6:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Constant current LED driver Alan, this link says that they have the driver in stock. http://dx.affmania.com/en/id-151115/zxy6005-26-dc-dc-60v-constant-voltage-current-regulated-power-supply-module-green#.V0yByMb2ZD8 On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 5:26 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: In case any one has come across one, I am looking for a DC/DC step down (buck driver) module with constant current adjustment.I need to drop the voltage from 50V input to 32-36 to drive my LEDs.There is this module...ZXY6005 2.6" DC~DC 60V Constant Voltage Current Regulated Power Supply Module - Green | | | | $ 46.19 | | | | | | | ZXY6005 2.6" DC~DC 60V Constant Voltage Current Regulated Power Supply... I like this from DX. Find the cool gadgets at a incredibly low price with worldwide free shipping here. | | | | it will do what I want, but is a bit big & expensive. One option is to buy a couple of these &just use the voltage step down function & run a number of smaller constant current drivers off it.For anyone running 36V, there are a heap of cheap constant current drivers & LEDs in thatrange to make up cheap & powerful lights.Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 31 08:09:05 2016 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 12:09:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] acrylic cylinder References: <1708445279.1695056.1464696545093.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1708445279.1695056.1464696545093.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hello Group,I am also selling my acrylic cylinder assembly, I would cut it off the sub sphere so it would go with the 24 in dia collar that welds into the hull and the top ring that is 1 inch thickk ?516-70 and the K350 hatch with internal \external opening feature. ?It would be a complete set up. ?The sub it is on was pressure tested to around 200 feet. ?The acrylic cylinder is 26in OD and 12 in tall and 1 in thick. ?I can also cap the bottom opening and rig it up for a much deeper pressure test.Message me at hankpronk at live.ca if interestedHank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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