[PSUBS-MAILIST] actuated valves?

Sat Apr 15 18:46:00 EDT 2017

Hank is right about the mechanism of operation though. Some of these solenoid poppet valves have a minimum dP across the valve to operate. When you are trying to vent air under just a few inches of water column pressure, the performance may not be there.

I have a couple of the Next Gen Red Hats in the lab. When I go back in on Monday, I'll conduct a small experiment to see if they hold any pressure.

Sean

On April 15, 2017 4:15:16 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>I once had a whole box full of these 24V Red Hats, which I never used
>and
>ended up selling on eBay. I kept two of them just in case, and pulled
>them
>out just now. I believe they're an old style, they have a round body
>that I
>no longer see on the current ones, but they've never been used. Well, I
>just screwed a piece of pipe into one, stuck the end of the pipe in my
>mouth to "pressurize" the enclosure, and put it under water in the
>kitchen
>sink. No bubbles, it's properly airtight. This thing could be pressure
>compensated really easily.
>
>On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <
>personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>> I have 3 of the red hat style 24V solenoid valves on the ballast tank
>of
>> my ambient.
>>    They work really well but they are a tiny bit more complicated
>than you
>> think
>> & are susceptible to corrosion. Be aware that the most common types
>of
>> solenoid
>> valves use water or air pressure to help them open, & so are no good
>on a
>> ballast
>> tank.
>> Hugh, ( who owns a valve firm ) hadn't found a suitable product when
>we
>> discussed
>> them a few years ago.
>> Alan
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On 16/04/2017, at 8:40 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via
>Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>> I use a lot of the new ones - the ASCO "Next Generation" Red Hat
>valves
>> with 24 VDC coils. The electrical characteristics are excellent, and
>they
>> perform well in any position. I just use the standard enclosures, but
>you
>> can get them in NEMA 4X. Don't know how these would take to submerged
>/
>> compensated use, but they would be pretty easy to modify for that
>purpose.
>> The housings come with an integral 1/2 NPTF for a conduit fitting -
>you
>> could easily install a Swagelok tube fitting instead for dielectric
>oil
>> compensation. ASCO does make a line of solenoid valves for naval /
>marine
>> use, but these have only the basic coil electronics and a plastic
>housing
>> that makes them submersible to fifteen feet. Not the ideal coils for
>> battery power though. If I could modify the housing and / or
>compensate to
>> make them work, I'd be more inclined to use the Next Gen Red Hats.
>>
>> Sean
>>
>>
>> On April 15, 2017 12:03:36 PM MDT, hank pronk via
>Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> I used the red hat valves on my ROV, they are very good quality, but
>I
>>> doubt they are air tight.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 11:36 AM, Alec Smyth via
>>> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> There are some Red Hat solenoid valves ! that are advertised as
>>> submersible to 15 feet and have the wires coming out an NPT port, so
>those
>>> could be compensated easily. But they cost a bit more than the air
>>> suspension ones.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 1:27 PM, hank pronk via
>Personal_Submersibles <
>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Alec,
>>> The valves are not air tight, the coil sits in the water.  It comes
>down
>>> to cost really. Sean has a nice idea but your looking at thousands. 
>An
>>> oil bath valve bank will cost  around 500 dollars to set up.  In my
>mind
>>> both will work, I am making an oil bath valve bank for Elementary
>just
>>> because I don't know if it might go in salt water.   We are happy to
>fill
>>> our  motors with oil, why not electro magnets.
>>>
>>> Greg,
>>> There are tons of air suspension valves  on Ebay with  switch panels
>>> even.   I would go with the Valve bank type if your going to oil
>bath it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 10:44 AM, james cottrell via
>>> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org
>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hank,
>>> Where to get the valves? Thanks, Greg.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
><personal_submersibles at psubs.
>>> org <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion
><personal_submersibles at psubs.
>>> org <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, April 15, 2017 10:43 AM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] actuated valves?
>>>
>>> Alec,
>>> If you want simple, look at electric solenoid valves for venting the
>>> tanks.  You can buy 8 valves for 100 dollars.  You can plumb the
>tanks
>>> together to create 4 zones or you can install one valve directly to
>each
>>> tank (12)   The beauty of using more valves is safety.  If one
>fails, no
>>> big issue.  You can wire 3 valves together so only need a 5 wire
>>> penetrator.  The nice thing about this idea is it is cheap to
>experiment
>>> with and! no modification to the tanks or sub.
>>> you will need check valves on the air feed lines so the tanks are
>not
>>> connected.  No point in venting one zone if it can send or receive
>air to
>>> another zone.
>>> If you are reluctant to use unprotected valves in fresh water, I can
>say
>>> the ones we used on our log salvage ROV never once gave us a problem
>in two
>>> years of operation.  I am talking many thousands of dives, actually
>one
>>> dive every 7 minutes.
>>> If your in salt water then you may want to go with an electric valve
>bank
>>> with four valves where the valve bank is in an oil tank with a
>bladder
>>> mounted behind the CT.   That is how my hydrau! lic valve works for
>my new
>>> manipulator.  It is fast and easy to set up, and is what I will do
>for
>>> Elementary.  In the mean time you can use cheap valves to figure it
>all
>>> out.  Your entire fix (experiment) can be under 200 dollars, then go
>to oil
>>> bath solenoids.
>>> Hank
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 6:12 AM, Alec Smyth via
>Personal_Submersibles
>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs. org <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'm mulling over options for re-plumbing Shackleton's MBTs. I can go
>with
>>> re-positioned tubing or remotely actuated valves. In principle the
>tubing
>>> is easier, but I'm trying to think through all possibilities before
>>> deciding, and just thought of a new option. There's six tanks per
>side, and
>>> the tanks are small so it would be a challenge to put a mushroom
>valve
>>> inside each tank. Besides, that would be a dozen valves. However, I
>could
>>> also do! just two valves per side, mounted outside and above the
>tanks,
>>> with very short hoses or tubes leading from three tanks to each
>valve.
>>> There is space, and because the valves would be outside the tanks I
>have a
>>> lot more freedom for the size or geometry of the valves. Maybe even
>normal
>>> ball valves actuated by a little air cylinder. This system would
>allow for
>>> fore-aft and side-to-side control, and would be highly resistant to
>>> list-induced water blocking.
>>>
>>> Anyone have thoughts on the KISSest way to control valves? For
>example,
>>> something that could work with unregulated 3K psi air?
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Alec
>>>
>>>
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