From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 4 06:33:28 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 11:33:28 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] all quiet on the PSUBS front? Message-ID: anyone there? From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 4 07:44:28 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2017 05:44:28 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] all quiet on the PSUBS front? In-Reply-To: dZvddc5hevY8OdZved7OQC References: dZvddc5hevY8OdZved7OQC Message-ID: No. :-) On August 4, 2017 4:33:28 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >anyone there? >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 4 07:53:18 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 11:53:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] all quiet on the PSUBS front? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <740992270.259255.1501847598667@mail.yahoo.com> James,Sill here, just resting from the lathe install project ;-) ?If I sell this property, the ad will read " big beautiful lathe for sale, comes with shop and house" ?lolHank On Friday, August 4, 2017, 5:44:51 AM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: No. :-) On August 4, 2017 4:33:28 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: anyone there? Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 4 08:33:30 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 12:33:30 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] all quiet on the PSUBS front? Message-ID: Bubbles are the only sounds I hear Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 4 09:07:20 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 14:07:20 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] all quiet on the PSUBS front? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ok, just checking everyones still there...... On 4 August 2017 at 13:33, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Bubbles are the only sounds I hear > > Get Outlook for Android > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 4 09:34:17 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 06:34:17 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] all quiet on the PSUBS front? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ping On Aug 4, 2017 6:08 AM, "James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > ok, just checking everyones still there...... > > On 4 August 2017 at 13:33, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Bubbles are the only sounds I hear > > > > Get Outlook for Android > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 4 11:29:55 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 08:29:55 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] all quiet on the PSUBS front? Message-ID: <20170804082955.863EF3A3@m0117459.ppops.net> Just doing some housekeeping here so I can make time for my sub ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] all quiet on the PSUBS front? Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 11:33:28 +0100 anyone there? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 4 12:14:51 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 16:14:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3 phase power References: <206558208.414792.1501863291706.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <206558208.414792.1501863291706@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,I need some input on converting single phase power to 3 phase. ?I am thinking about going with a rotary phase converter for the two small motors on the lathe. ?I am not sure though if my 208 V motors can handle 220-240 volt power. ?I need to check my power source but it will be at least 220 I am guessing. ?Maybe I need to use an inverter with variable output power if that exists?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 4 12:44:35 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2017 09:44:35 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3 phase power Message-ID: <49677.3066.bm@smtp202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hank, I have a rotory converter on my boat. Keep in mind you will only get about 2/3 of the input power on the output as some losses are acrewed to spin the converter. Also 208 volt motors will run on 220 just a bit faster than on 208. There are solidstate converters out there, no rotating parts and more power . Check? ?www.surpluscenter.com Keith T. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/4/17 9:14 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3 phase power Hi All,I need some input on converting single phase power to 3 phase. ?I am thinking about going with a rotary phase converter for the two small motors on the lathe. ?I am not sure though if my 208 V motors can handle 220-240 volt power. ?I need to check my power source but it will be at least 220 I am guessing. ?Maybe I need to use an inverter with variable output power if that exists?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 4 13:28:18 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 17:28:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3 phase power In-Reply-To: <49677.3066.bm@smtp202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <49677.3066.bm@smtp202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <983363208.469135.1501867699002@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Kieth,I thought the power less was only if you did not have capacitors and just relied on the third phase from the idler motor.I will check the surplus centrethanks againHank On Friday, August 4, 2017, 10:45:03 AM MDT, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I have a rotory converter on my boat. Keep in mind you will only get about 2/3 of the input power on the output as some losses are acrewed to spin the converter. Also 208 volt motors will run on 220 just a bit faster than on 208. There are solidstate converters out there, no rotating parts and more power . Check? ?www.surpluscenter.com Keith T. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/4/17 9:14 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3 phase power Hi All,I need some input on converting single phase power to 3 phase. ?I am thinking about going with a rotary phase converter for the two small motors on the lathe. ?I am not sure though if my 208 V motors can handle 220-240 volt power. ?I need to check my power source but it will be at least 220 I am guessing. ?Maybe I need to use an inverter with variable output power if that exists?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 4 13:57:21 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2017 10:57:21 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3 phase power Message-ID: <340003.88422.bm@smtp112.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Hank, The capacitors are there to create the sudo phase shift along with the windings in the motor/converter. Turning the rotor consumes power (unless you can circumvent the laws of physics. Haha), causing the reduced power output. The solid state units don't suffer this as there is no moving rotor. Keith T. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/4/17 10:28 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3 phase power Thanks Kieth,I thought the power less was only if you did not have capacitors and just relied on the third phase from the idler motor.I will check the surplus centrethanks againHank On Friday, August 4, 2017, 10:45:03 AM MDT, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I have a rotory converter on my boat. Keep in mind you will only get about 2/3 of the input power on the output as some losses are acrewed to spin the converter. Also 208 volt motors will run on 220 just a bit faster than on 208. There are solidstate converters out there, no rotating parts and more power . Check? ?www.surpluscenter.com Keith T. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/4/17 9:14 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3 phase power Hi All,I need some input on converting single phase power to 3 phase. ?I am thinking about going with a rotary phase converter for the two small motors on the lathe. ?I am not sure though if my 208 V motors can handle 220-240 volt power. ?I need to check my power source but it will be at least 220 I am guessing. ?Maybe I need to use an inverter with variable output power if that exists?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 4 14:02:06 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 11:02:06 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3 phase power Message-ID: <26763173.7996.1501869727689@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 4 14:09:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 18:09:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3 phase power In-Reply-To: <26763173.7996.1501869727689@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <26763173.7996.1501869727689@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1983588372.509975.1501870196969@mail.yahoo.com> Ian,Thank you,Yes I have just started looking at them, and they seem like the way to go. ?I am just nervous about anything I have to program. ?I am not good with electronics, I even have to farm out changing the time on my clock in my truck ;-) ?I need a controller that has two wires going in and three coming out with a big dial on the front that reads the voltage I want and nothing else lolHank On Friday, August 4, 2017, 12:02:19 PM MDT, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv8486834550 #yiv8486834550 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv8486834550 Hi Hank, have you consider using a VFD? ?They are fairly cheap and I give many more benefits (such as speed control, ramp up/down control, braking, etc.). I'm going with a 2HP Automation Direct GS2:https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/GS2_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control) Lovely lathe! Cheers!? Ian. -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Aug 4, 2017 10:28 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3 phase power Thanks Kieth,I thought the power less was only if you did not have capacitors and just relied on the third phase from the idler motor.I will check the surplus centrethanks againHank On Friday, August 4, 2017, 10:45:03 AM MDT, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I have a rotory converter on my boat. Keep in mind you will only get about 2/3 of the input power on the output as some losses are acrewed to spin the converter. Also 208 volt motors will run on 220 just a bit faster than on 208. There are solidstate converters out there, no rotating parts and more power . Check? ?www.surpluscenter.com Keith T. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/4/17 9:14 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3 phase power Hi All,I need some input on converting single phase power to 3 phase. ?I am thinking about going with a rotary phase converter for the two small motors on the lathe. ?I am not sure though if my 208 V motors can handle 220-240 volt power. ?I need to check my power source but it will be at least 220 I am guessing. ?Maybe I need to use an inverter with variable output power if that exists?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 4 20:39:59 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 17:39:59 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3 phase power Message-ID: <28703567.13402.1501893599692@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 4 21:01:11 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 01:01:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3 phase power In-Reply-To: <28703567.13402.1501893599692@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <28703567.13402.1501893599692@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <988578497.32396.1501894871166@mail.yahoo.com> Ian,I have been looking at them today and they seem more simple than I expected.ThanksHank On Friday, August 4, 2017, 6:40:15 PM MDT, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv9866501610 #yiv9866501610 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv9866501610 Hi Hank, I just hooked up my VFD this afternoon. ?I worked almost exactly like you described, but rather than changing the voltage, the dial on the front changes the frequency of the wave form being generated. ?I didn't change any of the defaults, it just worked out of the box. Perhaps somebody could help you set this up, get the defaults changed to suit you, then no further changes/programming needed. Good luck! Cheers,? Ian. -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Aug 4, 2017 11:09 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3 phase power Ian,Thank you,Yes I have just started looking at them, and they seem like the way to go. ?I am just nervous about anything I have to program. ?I am not good with electronics, I even have to farm out changing the time on my clock in my truck ;-) ?I need a controller that has two wires going in and three coming out with a big dial on the front that reads the voltage I want and nothing else lolHank On Friday, August 4, 2017, 12:02:19 PM MDT, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv9866501610 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv9866501610 Hi Hank, have you consider using a VFD? ?They are fairly cheap and I give many more benefits (such as speed control, ramp up/down control, braking, etc.). I'm going with a 2HP Automation Direct GS2:https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/GS2_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control) Lovely lathe! Cheers!? Ian. -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Aug 4, 2017 10:28 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3 phase power Thanks Kieth,I thought the power less was only if you did not have capacitors and just relied on the third phase from the idler motor.I will check the surplus centrethanks againHank On Friday, August 4, 2017, 10:45:03 AM MDT, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I have a rotory converter on my boat. Keep in mind you will only get about 2/3 of the input power on the output as some losses are acrewed to spin the converter. Also 208 volt motors will run on 220 just a bit faster than on 208. There are solidstate converters out there, no rotating parts and more power . Check? ?www.surpluscenter.com Keith T. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/4/17 9:14 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3 phase power Hi All,I need some input on converting single phase power to 3 phase. ?I am thinking about going with a rotary phase converter for the two small motors on the lathe. ?I am not sure though if my 208 V motors can handle 220-240 volt power. ?I need to check my power source but it will be at least 220 I am guessing. ?Maybe I need to use an inverter with variable output power if that exists?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 4 21:09:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 01:09:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] water bombers References: <1070689772.35343.1501895396452.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1070689772.35343.1501895396452@mail.yahoo.com> There will be no submarine operations in my favourite lake due to water bombers picking up water to fight forest fires. ?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 4 21:36:15 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 18:36:15 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3 phase power Message-ID: <25771920.13812.1501896975935@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 5 11:50:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 15:50:50 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K350 rear thruster disassemble Message-ID: Alec mentioned there's a tale of trial, tribulation and tears about it somewhere here on psubs. Can someone point me to it before I hit the housing with a cutting torch? Or if you are/were the main character in that hero's journey, help me Obi-Wan, you're my only hope. :-) It flooded and I need to take it apart. Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 5 13:53:47 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 13:53:47 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K350 rear thruster disassemble In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hah! I think you'll find Jon's description of opening up the K600 thrusters useful. It's on the psubs projects page (or at least used to be). I'm assuming k600 housings were similar to k350, but I also seem to remember Harold using some external weld-on tabs to make it easier. > On Aug 5, 2017, at 11:50 AM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alec mentioned there's a tale of trial, tribulation and tears about it somewhere here on psubs. Can someone point me to it before I hit the housing with a cutting torch? Or if you are/were the main character in that hero's journey, help me Obi-Wan, you're my only hope. :-) > > It flooded and I need to take it apart. > > > > Get Outlook for Android > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 5 14:39:18 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 11:39:18 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] water bombers In-Reply-To: dngmdhwyJvY8OdngndCLbt References: <1070689772.35343.1501895396452.ref@mail.yahoo.com> dngmdhwyJvY8OdngndCLbt Message-ID: <000001d30e1a$26b570c0$74205240$@telus.net> Thanks for the update, Hank. Maybe in two weeks all will be resolved. Will keep in touch. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 6:10 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] water bombers There will be no submarine operations in my favourite lake due to water bombers picking up water to fight forest fires. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 5 15:51:44 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 19:51:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] water bombers In-Reply-To: <000001d30e1a$26b570c0$74205240$@telus.net> References: <1070689772.35343.1501895396452.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <000001d30e1a$26b570c0$74205240$@telus.net> Message-ID: <472459540.327227.1501962704131@mail.yahoo.com> Tim,I think the lake is now closed because the MORON boaters don't get out of the way of the friggin water bombers. ?I mean really,,, who in there right mind would stay in the the path of a giant water bomber.Hank LOL On Saturday, August 5, 2017, 12:39:38 PM MDT, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv8365290858 #yiv8365290858 -- _filtered #yiv8365290858 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv8365290858 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv8365290858 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv8365290858 #yiv8365290858 p.yiv8365290858MsoNormal, #yiv8365290858 li.yiv8365290858MsoNormal, #yiv8365290858 div.yiv8365290858MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv8365290858 a:link, #yiv8365290858 span.yiv8365290858MsoHyperlink {color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv8365290858 a:visited, #yiv8365290858 span.yiv8365290858MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv8365290858 span.yiv8365290858EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv8365290858 .yiv8365290858MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv8365290858 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv8365290858 div.yiv8365290858WordSection1 {}#yiv8365290858 Thanks for the update, Hank.? Maybe in two weeks all will be resolved.? Will keep in touch. Tim ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 6:10 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] water bombers ? There will be no submarine operations in my favourite lake due to water bombers picking up water to fight forest fires. ? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 5 16:22:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 20:22:56 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K350 rear thruster disassemble Message-ID: Thanks. I'll look. BTW, the side thrusters have tabs, but the rear is sealed differently. Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 5 16:34:07 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 20:34:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K350 rear thruster disassemble In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1289956706.335531.1501965247536@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,Send pictures and we can diagnose how to open her up.Hank On Saturday, August 5, 2017, 2:23:18 PM MDT, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks. I'll look. BTW, the side thrusters have tabs, but the rear is sealed differently. Get Outlook for Android _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 5 16:40:57 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 20:40:57 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K350 rear thruster disassemble Message-ID: Looks like it disappeared or my Google-Fu has not yet achieved master level. Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 5 16:40:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 20:40:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] diesel conversion References: <1835460669.349845.1501965654002.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1835460669.349845.1501965654002@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,I am looking for a single cylinder diesel engine for Gamma. ?The engine must be able to fit through the escape pod hatch (18 in) ?and be water cooled.It does not need to be a marine engine because I can make my own water cooled exhaust etc. ?I can make this conversion very quickly because I will reuse the jettisoning ?propeller drive that was on Gamma originally. ?I will simply weld in a reinforcing ring in the escape pod and bolt in the original magnetic coupler assembly, less the electric motor. ?I will mount the engine on a track so I can remove it and use the escape pod in an emergency. ?I will have an external fuel tank that is pressure rated. ?Any leads or ideas are appreciated.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 5 16:51:25 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 20:51:25 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K350 rear thruster disassemble Message-ID: Here are links to a couple of pics. Looks like the brass pin gets popped out to remove the spring and nylon washer from around the shaft. It's in there pretty good. What holds on the rear of the housing is another story. https://goo.gl/photos/76pGQJs1JSTCmhRd7 https://goo.gl/photos/fBQYmeo2bqNSe3xJA Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 5 16:56:26 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 20:56:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K350 rear thruster disassemble In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1663378834.400061.1501966586191@mail.yahoo.com> Mine were "stock". ?Harold had modified his to make it easier to take them apart. ?It takes patience and persuasion. ?I documented my approach at SUBDB.INFO ? Follow the link below. ?I'm going to be away for most of the weekend but can answer questions monday. http://www.subdb.info/cgi/database/showvessel/albums/index.cgi?A=1320788990&B=1331771748&C=&D=K-600%20Overhaul%20-%20Stripping On Saturday, August 5, 2017 12:37 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec mentioned there's a tale of trial, tribulation and tears about it somewhere here on psubs. Can someone point me to it before I hit the housing with a cutting torch? Or if you are/were the main character in that hero's journey, help me Obi-Wan, you're my only hope.? :-) It flooded and I need to take it apart. Get Outlook for Android _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 5 17:08:00 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 21:08:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K350 rear thruster disassemble In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <195042642.399246.1501967280830@mail.yahoo.com> It looks the same as mine. ?The rear tank head (propeller end) will twist off counter-clockwise. ?You'll have to use a knife to cut through those layers of paint and then try spinning that rear head off. ?If you are lucky some gentle persuasion with a lever between the vanes will get it going. ?If you are unlucky and that doesn't work, use penetrating oil in the gap between the cylinder and tank head to eat through any gunk that might have accumulated over the years. ?I did three or four treatments that way and let each one sit a day. ?Use a chain wrench or make one out of chain like I did. ?Descriptions of my process are underneath each larger photo. On Saturday, August 5, 2017 4:53 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Here are links to a couple of pics. Looks like the brass pin gets popped out to remove the spring and nylon washer from around the shaft. It's in there pretty good. What holds on the rear of the housing is another story. https://goo.gl/photos/76pGQJs1JSTCmhRd7 https://goo.gl/photos/fBQYmeo2bqNSe3xJA Get Outlook for Android _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 5 17:04:20 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 21:04:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K350 rear thruster disassemble In-Reply-To: <1663378834.400061.1501966586191@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1663378834.400061.1501966586191@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <247325550.346604.1501967060973@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,The picture is not clear where the end cap meets the cylinder, but, it looks like there are pipe wrench marks on the output shaft housing. ?That would mean the end cap threads off. ?I would make a wrench that grabs the three prop guard mounts. ?A little heat works a charm and more heat works even better, but make sure the seal is out first to let it breathe.Hank On Saturday, August 5, 2017, 2:56:51 PM MDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Mine were "stock". ?Harold had modified his to make it easier to take them apart. ?It takes patience and persuasion. ?I documented my approach at SUBDB.INFO ? Follow the link below. ?I'm going to be away for most of the weekend but can answer questions monday. http://www.subdb.info/cgi/database/showvessel/albums/index.cgi?A=1320788990&B=1331771748&C=&D=K-600%20Overhaul%20-%20Stripping On Saturday, August 5, 2017 12:37 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec mentioned there's a tale of trial, tribulation and tears about it somewhere here on psubs. Can someone point me to it before I hit the housing with a cutting torch? Or if you are/were the main character in that hero's journey, help me Obi-Wan, you're my only hope.? :-) It flooded and I need to take it apart. Get Outlook for Android _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 5 17:09:26 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 21:09:26 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K350 rear thruster disassemble Message-ID: Outstanding! There are pipe wrench marks on the rear of the housing. I was figuring the entire rear unit unscrewed from the main housing and your pics confirmed it. Thanks! Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 5 19:43:41 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 23:43:41 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K350 rear thruster disassemble - gasket parts, where to buy Message-ID: OK traditional K350 owners, got it apart and clearly it had been leaking for awhile. And it helps to have an antique, massive pipe wrench in your toolbox, awaiting the day you might need it. https://goo.gl/photos/Bbwe36Knkggjb2Yh8 https://goo.gl/photos/wTFZxz8yxQGsCuTT9 https://goo.gl/photos/R7jCXvoRyLAfMMsX7 https://goo.gl/photos/fxiZkbfqguixPCAh8 Now, I can make the o-ring. What are the rubber parts on the shaft? John Maynard is going to send me the plans they used to build Harold, but could use some help until then Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 5 20:18:28 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2017 08:18:28 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3 phase power In-Reply-To: <206558208.414792.1501863291706@mail.yahoo.com> References: <206558208.414792.1501863291706.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <206558208.414792.1501863291706@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6a429646-0ede-be70-da0d-75ce6a287f91@archivale.com> There's an old trick using a 3-phase motor as a converter. I will dig it up out of my archives if you don't already know it. Best, Marc On 8/5/2017 12:14 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All, > I need some input on converting single phase power to 3 phase. I am > thinking about going with a rotary phase converter for the two small > motors on the lathe. I am not sure though if my 208 V motors can handle > 220-240 volt power. I need to check my power source but it will be at > least 220 I am guessing. Maybe I need to use an inverter with variable > output power if that exists? > Hank > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 5 20:39:02 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 20:39:02 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K350 rear thruster disassemble In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Found it! http://www.subdb.info/cgi/database/showvessel/albums/index.cgi?A=1320788990&B=1331771748&C=&D=K-600%20Overhaul%20-%20Stripping On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec mentioned there's a tale of trial, tribulation and tears about it > somewhere here on psubs. Can someone point me to it before I hit the > housing with a cutting torch? Or if you are/were the main character in that > hero's journey, help me Obi-Wan, you're my only hope. :-) > > It flooded and I need to take it apart. > > > > Get Outlook for Android > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 5 20:40:46 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 20:40:46 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K350 rear thruster disassemble In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh sorry, I see Jon posted the same already. Congrats on getting that off, that must have taken some work! On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Alec Smyth wrote: > Found it! > > http://www.subdb.info/cgi/database/showvessel/albums/ > index.cgi?A=1320788990&B=1331771748&C=&D=K-600%20Overhaul%20-%20Stripping > > On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Alec mentioned there's a tale of trial, tribulation and tears about it >> somewhere here on psubs. Can someone point me to it before I hit the >> housing with a cutting torch? Or if you are/were the main character in that >> hero's journey, help me Obi-Wan, you're my only hope. :-) >> >> It flooded and I need to take it apart. >> >> >> >> Get Outlook for Android >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 5 20:45:41 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2017 00:45:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3 phase power In-Reply-To: <6a429646-0ede-be70-da0d-75ce6a287f91@archivale.com> References: <206558208.414792.1501863291706.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <206558208.414792.1501863291706@mail.yahoo.com> <6a429646-0ede-be70-da0d-75ce6a287f91@archivale.com> Message-ID: <762385376.420179.1501980341479@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Mark,Thanks' but I have researched that method and it is very simple but not efficient. ?There are some Youtube video's on how to do it. ?Pretty nifty!Hank On Saturday, August 5, 2017, 6:18:38 PM MDT, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles wrote: There's an old trick using a 3-phase motor as a converter. I will dig it up out of my archives if you don't already know it. Best, Marc On 8/5/2017 12:14 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All, > I need some input on converting single phase power to 3 phase.? I am > thinking about going with a rotary phase converter for the two small > motors on the lathe.? I am not sure though if my 208 V motors can handle > 220-240 volt power.? I need to check my power source but it will be at > least 220 I am guessing.? Maybe I need to use an inverter with variable > output power if that exists? > Hank > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 5 21:21:39 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2017 09:21:39 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3 phase power In-Reply-To: <762385376.420179.1501980341479@mail.yahoo.com> References: <206558208.414792.1501863291706.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <206558208.414792.1501863291706@mail.yahoo.com> <6a429646-0ede-be70-da0d-75ce6a287f91@archivale.com> <762385376.420179.1501980341479@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Oh yes. I got it from a friend who had used it for years - drew it up with pencil and paper. Remember those? Marc On 8/6/2017 8:45 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Mark, > Thanks' but I have researched that method and it is very simple but not > efficient. There are some Youtube video's on how to do it. Pretty nifty! > Hank > > > On Saturday, August 5, 2017, 6:18:38 PM MDT, Marc de Piolenc via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > There's an old trick using a 3-phase motor as a converter. I will dig it > up out of my archives if you don't already know it. > > Best, > Marc > > On 8/5/2017 12:14 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > > I need some input on converting single phase power to 3 phase. I am > > thinking about going with a rotary phase converter for the two small > > motors on the lathe. I am not sure though if my 208 V motors can handle > > 220-240 volt power. I need to check my power source but it will be at > > least 220 I am guessing. Maybe I need to use an inverter with variable > > output power if that exists? > > Hank > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -- > Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog > Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog > Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 > Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc > Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 5 22:17:02 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2017 02:17:02 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K350 rear thruster disassemble Message-ID: Wasn't that tough. Harold had put anti-seize on the threads. Hmm ... I wonder of that contributed to failing seals? As you can see from the pictures I also have a massive antique pipe wrench that was perfect for the job. First time I ever used it - perfect. Also had a tool from my hotrod building days that held the prop to loosen the main bolt. Now to discern the shaft seals and hoping it wasn't the electrical gland that failed. Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 6 18:26:10 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2017 22:26:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Navy Unveils 3D-Printed SEAL Sub References: <160609811.848368.1502058370844.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <160609811.848368.1502058370844@mail.yahoo.com> http://news.thomasnet.com/featured/navy-unveils-3d-printed-seal-sub From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 6 18:31:19 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2017 18:31:19 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Navy Unveils 3D-Printed SEAL Sub In-Reply-To: <160609811.848368.1502058370844@mail.yahoo.com> References: <160609811.848368.1502058370844.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <160609811.848368.1502058370844@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001d30f03$ba399210$2eacb630$@indy.rr.com> I saw this item displayed at the International Submarine Races this year. Unfortunately I did not get to look in the interior all though I heard they were showing it. It looked very seemless. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 6:26 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Navy Unveils 3D-Printed SEAL Sub http://news.thomasnet.com/featured/navy-unveils-3d-printed-seal-sub _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 7 10:17:03 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2017 14:17:03 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K350 rear thruster disassemble - gasket parts, where to buy Message-ID: Doh, Figured it out. Standard Dayton 7/8" pump shaft seal. BTW, this motor housing is beautifully machined. I'll ask John Maynard if they made it or bought it from Kittridge. I can see why people go with newer tech trolling motors and compensate with oil. This thing must have been a beast to fabricate. Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 7 17:53:01 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2017 17:53:01 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Message-ID: Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August 1-3). Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the tow line and helped with comms. Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more than I can remember last week. Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great accomplishment with the mission. A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and sub to track straight). The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 7 18:22:21 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2017 15:22:21 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Message-ID: <20170807152221.863D7CE0@m0117459.ppops.net> Sounds Great ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2017 17:53:01 -0400 Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August 1-3). Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the tow line and helped with comms. Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more than I can remember last week. Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great accomplishment with the mission. A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and sub to track straight). The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 7 18:41:51 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2017 18:41:51 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the detailed account Doug! For everyone else, in case you're wondering what happened to Shackleton... it was a trailer issue. I had around 20 hours of uneventful towing in the DC metro region before setting out on this trip, but when I got close to North Carolina the speed limit went from 55 to 70. It turns out the trailer experiences its harmonic oscillation frequency at that speed, which is to say it likes to swing violently from side to side. I'll be moving the sub forward a little to increase tongue weight, and will be looking into bolt-on damper kits. Best, Alec On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 5:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day > sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August > 1-3). > > Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day > with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate > that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands > full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time > to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. > > List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, > River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. > > This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver > and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this > operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and > extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted > with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the > tow line and helped with comms. > > Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. > Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were > both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think > River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! > > Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of > the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for > the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always > willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like > to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more > than I can remember last week. > > Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever > kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. > > River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal > (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting > the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. > > Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to > tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We > were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did > suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about > 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow > line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that > we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS > and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the > bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! > His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did > it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about > an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, > testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff > surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 > / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water > flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think > we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great > accomplishment with the mission. > > A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow > equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat > REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so > much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to > be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel > and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then > jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and > sub to track straight). > > The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves > everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this > is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, > one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can > carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow > out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support > vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of > logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend > its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 7 19:04:26 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2017 11:04:26 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7681B793-E9C3-4AE1-A9C6-542E96D09AD0@yahoo.com> Thanks for that superb report Doug. I really would have been tempted to come over but had my 60th & was obliged to be there for it. Love to see some more videos ( saw a bit on facebook) & a report from Cliff on how he found everything. Bet he had the time of his life in that clear water. Hope Rick behaved himself! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 8/08/2017, at 9:53 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day > sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August > 1-3). > > Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day > with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate > that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands > full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time > to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. > > List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, > River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. > > This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver > and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this > operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and > extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted > with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the > tow line and helped with comms. > > Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. > Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were > both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think > River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! > > Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of > the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for > the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always > willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like > to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more > than I can remember last week. > > Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever > kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. > > River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal > (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting > the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. > > Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to > tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We > were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did > suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about > 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow > line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that > we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS > and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the > bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! > His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did > it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about > an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, > testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff > surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 > / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water > flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think > we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great > accomplishment with the mission. > > A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow > equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat > REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so > much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to > be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel > and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then > jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and > sub to track straight). > > The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves > everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this > is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, > one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can > carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow > out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support > vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of > logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend > its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 7 19:26:32 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2017 18:26:32 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the best sub trip of my life! I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of the 2017 Psub Regatta. I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we ran partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to see if we could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells. Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow back was rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster both in the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies but it was close. As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing. Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board water and upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water. We were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. More latter. Cliff On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day > sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August > 1-3). > > Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day > with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate > that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands > full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time > to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. > > List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, > River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. > > This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver > and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this > operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and > extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted > with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the > tow line and helped with comms. > > Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. > Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were > both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think > River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! > > Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of > the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for > the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always > willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like > to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more > than I can remember last week. > > Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever > kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. > > River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal > (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting > the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. > > Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to > tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We > were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did > suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about > 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow > line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that > we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS > and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the > bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! > His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did > it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about > an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, > testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff > surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 > / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water > flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think > we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great > accomplishment with the mission. > > A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow > equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat > REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so > much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to > be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel > and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then > jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and > sub to track straight). > > The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves > everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this > is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, > one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can > carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow > out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support > vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of > logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend > its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 7 19:51:12 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2017 11:51:12 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7272FB80-0E6E-45A8-B1F3-7238CE57051D@yahoo.com> Thanks Cliff. I am wanting to glean as much as I can from this for my build! When you've recovered; do you think some sort of snorkel system with fresh air flowing in would have helped? Did you cover the dome while towing? What sort of towing speed were you getting when you weren't submerged? How was manoeuvrability this time round? Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 8/08/2017, at 11:26 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the best sub trip of my life! > > I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of the 2017 Psub Regatta. > > I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we ran partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to see if we could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells. Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow back was rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster both in the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies but it was close. > > As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing. Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board water and upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water. We were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. > > More latter. > > Cliff > > > >> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >> 1-3). >> >> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >> >> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >> >> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >> tow line and helped with comms. >> >> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >> >> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >> than I can remember last week. >> >> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >> >> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >> >> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >> accomplishment with the mission. >> >> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >> sub to track straight). >> >> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 7 20:07:00 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2017 00:07:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: <7272FB80-0E6E-45A8-B1F3-7238CE57051D@yahoo.com> References: <7272FB80-0E6E-45A8-B1F3-7238CE57051D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1654294989.1517102.1502150820767@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,Sounds like a great time! ?you are lucky that R-300 is so small. ?You can build a pontoon style launch cradle that can ballast up or down. ?You can transport the sub in the cradle on one trailer. ?You can tow the sub to your dive site, then get in in comfort and safety. ?Hank On Monday, August 7, 2017, 5:51:35 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff.I am wanting to glean as much as I can from this for my build!When you've recovered; do you think some sort of snorkel system with fresh?air flowing in would have helped? Did you cover the dome while towing??What sort of towing speed were you getting when you weren't submerged??How was manoeuvrability this time round??Cheers Alan? Sent from my iPad On 8/08/2017, at 11:26 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad for hosting us last week. You guys? did a magnificent job.?This was the best sub trip of my life!? I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip and?mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of the 2017 Psub?Regatta. I?still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is?3.9 miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of 93F and RH of 80%.? Average speed was about 4.5 MPH.? As long as we ran?partially submerged to was hot but fine.? This was a test dive to see?if we could get out deeper.? Water was not clear at this location.?The deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water.??The 7.8 miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it was a smooth tow and?there were thinks?to see on way out.?At the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells.? Could see the?sub?on the bottom from the?Boston Whaler.? The tow back was rough.? With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster both in the boat and in the sub.?Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing?at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours.? I did not loose my cookies but it was close. As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing.? Towing subs sucks.? All survived but I used up all my on board water and upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water.? We were all pretty whipped.? All? in all, it was quite an adventure. More latter. Cliff ? On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August 1-3). Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the tow line and helped with comms. Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more than I can remember last week. Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great accomplishment with the mission. A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and sub to track straight). The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 7 21:47:02 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2017 20:47:02 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: <7272FB80-0E6E-45A8-B1F3-7238CE57051D@yahoo.com> References: <7272FB80-0E6E-45A8-B1F3-7238CE57051D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan, I think a small DC air conditioner would be of more use than fresh air. Because of the hull shape, at a tow speed of 4-5 mph, a bow wave formed and pushed the bow down. At this speed the water covered the dome and this was like throwing a towel over the viewport in keeping the sun off. To be honest with you, I was very disappointed with the maneuverability I had on the original R300 design at low speeds for the Psub convention in Islamorada four years ago. The jet pump was strong and fast but not maneuverability at low speed. When I switched to using thrusters last year, the maneuverability dramatically improved. The issue we had when towing is that at 4-5 mph, the boat was pitching down about 10 degrees so the rear thrusters were practically out of the water so towed manuveraivlty was not good. Untowed it was just fine. My stern thrusters are not submerged very far so if I push them to hard on the surface, air is ingested into the nozzle. One of the things I am going to build is a towing bra out of foam and FRP that has more of a conventional hull shape to prevent the bow pitching downward during tows. Should also make it for stable for egress after towing unmanned. Regards Cliff On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:51 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Cliff. > I am wanting to glean as much as I can from this for my build! > When you've recovered; do you think some sort of snorkel system with fresh > air flowing in would have helped? Did you cover the dome while towing? > What sort of towing speed were you getting when you weren't submerged? > How was manoeuvrability this time round? > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 8/08/2017, at 11:26 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad > for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the > best sub trip of my life! > > I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip and mailed > them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of the 2017 > Psub Regatta. > > I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key points > were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 miles > from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of 93F and > RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we ran partially > submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to see if we could get > out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The deeper dive on Aug > 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 miles from Doug's house > (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so even thought > the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it was a smooth > tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At the second dive site the > water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells. Could see > the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow back was rough. > With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster both in > the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing at > 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours. I did not > loose my cookies but it was close. > > As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with > launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing. > Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board water and > upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water. We > were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. > > More latter. > > Cliff > > > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >> 1-3). >> >> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >> >> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >> >> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >> tow line and helped with comms. >> >> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >> >> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >> than I can remember last week. >> >> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >> >> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >> >> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >> accomplishment with the mission. >> >> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >> sub to track straight). >> >> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 8 01:27:37 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2017 17:27:37 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: <7272FB80-0E6E-45A8-B1F3-7238CE57051D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <70CD897D-EFA8-4730-8A79-6BBFC9E16553@yahoo.com> Cliff, thanks for those insights. Had a look on your project page & originally you had a towing point low down. Then it seemed to disappear & be replaced by a tow point on the centre of the nose; is that right? Would it have helped towing from a lower point? In the "dry divers" video they talk of getting 10 knots towing speed; would have thought your design could get more speed than that. I am looking at having a fibreglass false floor/ wall that I can channel air from the scrubber or auxiliary fan through; forcing it in to contact with the cold hull. Not sure how successful this will be at temperature control or humidity control, but will give it a go. Has the additional benefit of insulation in the cold. I remember Steve & Alec being towed out with 9 bags of ice. I don't think they would have cared what the sea state was, they definitely didn't want to stay inside for the trip back. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 8/08/2017, at 1:47 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, I think a small DC air conditioner would be of more use than fresh air. Because of the hull shape, at a tow speed of 4-5 mph, a bow wave formed and pushed the bow down. At this speed the water covered the dome and this was like throwing a towel over the viewport in keeping the sun off. To be honest with you, I was very disappointed with the maneuverability I had on the original R300 design at low speeds for the Psub convention in Islamorada four years ago. The jet pump was strong and fast but not maneuverability at low speed. When I switched to using thrusters last year, the maneuverability dramatically improved. The issue we had when towing is that at 4-5 mph, the boat was pitching down about 10 degrees so the rear thrusters were practically out of the water so towed manuveraivlty was not good. Untowed it was just fine. My stern thrusters are not submerged very far so if I push them to hard on the surface, air is ingested into the nozzle. > > One of the things I am going to build is a towing bra out of foam and FRP that has more of a conventional hull shape to prevent the bow pitching downward during tows. Should also make it for stable for egress after towing unmanned. > > Regards Cliff > >> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:51 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Thanks Cliff. >> I am wanting to glean as much as I can from this for my build! >> When you've recovered; do you think some sort of snorkel system with fresh >> air flowing in would have helped? Did you cover the dome while towing? >> What sort of towing speed were you getting when you weren't submerged? >> How was manoeuvrability this time round? >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 8/08/2017, at 11:26 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the best sub trip of my life! >>> >>> I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of the 2017 Psub Regatta. >>> >>> I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we ran partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to see if we could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells. Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow back was rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster both in the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies but it was close. >>> >>> As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing. Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board water and upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water. We were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. >>> >>> More latter. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >>>> 1-3). >>>> >>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >>>> >>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>>> >>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>>> tow line and helped with comms. >>>> >>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>>> >>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >>>> than I can remember last week. >>>> >>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>>> >>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>>> >>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>>> accomplishment with the mission. >>>> >>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >>>> sub to track straight). >>>> >>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 8 10:13:46 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2017 09:13:46 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: <1654294989.1517102.1502150820767@mail.yahoo.com> References: <7272FB80-0E6E-45A8-B1F3-7238CE57051D@yahoo.com> <1654294989.1517102.1502150820767@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I think that this is possible. Have been giving it some thought. What I would really like is the 11.5 m long, 4.3m beam powered aluminum catamaran sub tender that Dan Lance showed us at the Regatta. The vessel is designed to transport and launch two Psubs with a cruising speed of 25knots. Got to have deep pockets to built it. But can you imagine a floating psub convention in the Bahamas or Roatan ! We would have people stacked up wanting to attend. Cliff On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 7:07 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > Sounds like a great time! you are lucky that R-300 is so small. You can > build a pontoon style launch cradle that can ballast up or down. You can > transport the sub in the cradle on one trailer. You can tow the sub to > your dive site, then get in in comfort and safety. > Hank > > > On Monday, August 7, 2017, 5:51:35 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Thanks Cliff. > I am wanting to glean as much as I can from this for my build! > When you've recovered; do you think some sort of snorkel system with fresh > air flowing in would have helped? Did you cover the dome while towing? > What sort of towing speed were you getting when you weren't submerged? > How was manoeuvrability this time round? > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 8/08/2017, at 11:26 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad > for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the > best sub trip of my life! > > I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip and mailed > them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of the 2017 > Psub Regatta. > > I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key points > were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 miles > from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of 93F and > RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we ran partially > submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to see if we could get > out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The deeper dive on Aug > 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 miles from Doug's house > (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so even thought > the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it was a smooth > tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At the second dive site the > water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells. Could see > the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow back was rough. > With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster both in > the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing at > 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours. I did not > loose my cookies but it was close. > > As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with > launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing. > Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board water and > upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water. We > were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. > > More latter. > > Cliff > > > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day > sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August > 1-3). > > Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day > with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate > that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands > full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time > to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. > > List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, > River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. > > This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver > and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this > operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and > extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted > with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the > tow line and helped with comms. > > Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. > Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were > both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think > River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! > > Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of > the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for > the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always > willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like > to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more > than I can remember last week. > > Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever > kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. > > River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal > (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting > the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. > > Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to > tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We > were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did > suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about > 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow > line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that > we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS > and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the > bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! > His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did > it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about > an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, > testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff > surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 > / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water > flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think > we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great > accomplishment with the mission. > > A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow > equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat > REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so > much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to > be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel > and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then > jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and > sub to track straight). > > The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves > everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this > is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, > one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can > carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow > out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support > vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of > logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend > its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 8 16:25:34 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2017 15:25:34 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta. The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw and the second is a night dive in front of Doug's house https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI. Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. Regards Cliff On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day > sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August > 1-3). > > Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day > with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate > that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands > full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time > to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. > > List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, > River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. > > This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver > and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this > operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and > extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted > with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the > tow line and helped with comms. > > Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. > Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were > both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think > River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! > > Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of > the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for > the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always > willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like > to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more > than I can remember last week. > > Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever > kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. > > River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal > (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting > the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. > > Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to > tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We > were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did > suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about > 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow > line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that > we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS > and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the > bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! > His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did > it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about > an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, > testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff > surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 > / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water > flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think > we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great > accomplishment with the mission. > > A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow > equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat > REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so > much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to > be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel > and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then > jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and > sub to track straight). > > The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves > everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this > is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, > one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can > carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow > out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support > vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of > logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend > its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 8 18:42:10 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2017 18:42:10 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nice "rough cuts" Cliff! ~ Doug On 8/8/17, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta. The > first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3 > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw and the second is a night dive > in front of Doug's house https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI. > Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. > > Regards > > Cliff > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >> 1-3). >> >> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >> >> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >> >> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >> tow line and helped with comms. >> >> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >> >> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >> than I can remember last week. >> >> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >> >> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >> >> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >> accomplishment with the mission. >> >> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >> sub to track straight). >> >> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 8 18:45:00 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 10:45:00 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: <7272FB80-0E6E-45A8-B1F3-7238CE57051D@yahoo.com> <1654294989.1517102.1502150820767@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <048b01d31097$fcdf6000$f69e2000$@gmail.com> Hi Cliff, Great to hear about all your experiences. Well done. Have you considered fitting a small foil to the bow, just for towing, to allow your sub to be towed faster and get the nose up. Pulling from lower down would be problematic in that it would increase tendency to roll and yaw methinks. Cheers, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 9 August 2017 2:14 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Hank, I think that this is possible. Have been giving it some thought. What I would really like is the 11.5 m long, 4.3m beam powered aluminum catamaran sub tender that Dan Lance showed us at the Regatta. The vessel is designed to transport and launch two Psubs with a cruising speed of 25knots. Got to have deep pockets to built it. But can you imagine a floating psub convention in the Bahamas or Roatan ! We would have people stacked up wanting to attend. Cliff On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 7:07 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, Sounds like a great time! you are lucky that R-300 is so small. You can build a pontoon style launch cradle that can ballast up or down. You can transport the sub in the cradle on one trailer. You can tow the sub to your dive site, then get in in comfort and safety. Hank On Monday, August 7, 2017, 5:51:35 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff. I am wanting to glean as much as I can from this for my build! When you've recovered; do you think some sort of snorkel system with fresh air flowing in would have helped? Did you cover the dome while towing? What sort of towing speed were you getting when you weren't submerged? How was manoeuvrability this time round? Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 8/08/2017, at 11:26 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the best sub trip of my life! I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of the 2017 Psub Regatta. I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we ran partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to see if we could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells. Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow back was rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster both in the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies but it was close. As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing. Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board water and upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water. We were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. More latter. Cliff On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August 1-3). Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the tow line and helped with comms. Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more than I can remember last week. Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great accomplishment with the mission. A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and sub to track straight). The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 8 19:05:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2017 18:05:49 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: <048b01d31097$fcdf6000$f69e2000$@gmail.com> References: <7272FB80-0E6E-45A8-B1F3-7238CE57051D@yahoo.com> <1654294989.1517102.1502150820767@mail.yahoo.com> <048b01d31097$fcdf6000$f69e2000$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hugh, have been thinking of foils. I think this could work. I think the bra approach might be better in that in addition to preventing the bow from pitching forward, it would help stabilize the boat for getting in and out. We did a test last week with a low tow point . Yes it did not work as the boat started rolling from side to side. Best Regards Cliff On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 5:45 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Cliff, > > Great to hear about all your experiences. Well done. > > Have you considered fitting a small foil to the bow, just for towing, to > allow your sub to be towed faster and get the nose up. Pulling from lower > down would be problematic in that it would increase tendency to roll and > yaw methinks. > > Cheers, > > > > Hugh > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 August 2017 2:14 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > > > > Hank, I think that this is possible. Have been giving it some thought. > What I would really like is the 11.5 m long, 4.3m beam powered aluminum > catamaran sub tender that Dan Lance showed us at the Regatta. The vessel > is designed to transport and launch two Psubs with a cruising speed of > 25knots. Got to have deep pockets to built it. But can you imagine a > floating psub convention in the Bahamas or Roatan ! We would have people > stacked up wanting to attend. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 7:07 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, > > Sounds like a great time! you are lucky that R-300 is so small. You can > build a pontoon style launch cradle that can ballast up or down. You can > transport the sub in the cradle on one trailer. You can tow the sub to > your dive site, then get in in comfort and safety. > > Hank > > > > > > On Monday, August 7, 2017, 5:51:35 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > Thanks Cliff. > > I am wanting to glean as much as I can from this for my build! > > When you've recovered; do you think some sort of snorkel system with fresh > > air flowing in would have helped? Did you cover the dome while towing? > > What sort of towing speed were you getting when you weren't submerged? > > How was manoeuvrability this time round? > > Cheers Alan > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 8/08/2017, at 11:26 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad > for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the > best sub trip of my life! > > > > I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip and mailed > them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of the 2017 > Psub Regatta. > > > > I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key points > were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 miles > from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of 93F and > RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we ran partially > submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to see if we could get > out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The deeper dive on Aug > 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 miles from Doug's house > (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so even thought > the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it was a smooth > tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At the second dive site the > water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells. Could see > the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow back was rough. > With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster both in > the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing at > 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours. I did not > loose my cookies but it was close. > > > > As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with > launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing. > Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board water and > upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water. We > were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. > > > > More latter. > > > > Cliff > > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day > sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August > 1-3). > > Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day > with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate > that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands > full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time > to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. > > List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, > River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. > > This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver > and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this > operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and > extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted > with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the > tow line and helped with comms. > > Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. > Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were > both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think > River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! > > Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of > the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for > the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always > willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like > to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more > than I can remember last week. > > Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever > kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. > > River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal > (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting > the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. > > Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to > tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We > were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did > suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about > 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow > line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that > we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS > and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the > bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! > His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did > it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about > an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, > testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff > surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 > / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water > flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think > we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great > accomplishment with the mission. > > A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow > equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat > REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so > much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to > be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel > and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then > jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and > sub to track straight). > > The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves > everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this > is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, > one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can > carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow > out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support > vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of > logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend > its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 8 19:17:20 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 11:17:20 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: <7272FB80-0E6E-45A8-B1F3-7238CE57051D@yahoo.com> <1654294989.1517102.1502150820767@mail.yahoo.com> <048b01d31097$fcdf6000$f69e2000$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <04a601d3109c$802a8850$807f98f0$@gmail.com> Cliff, if you opt for the bra you will never live that down!! From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 9 August 2017 11:06 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Hugh, have been thinking of foils. I think this could work. I think the bra approach might be better in that in addition to preventing the bow from pitching forward, it would help stabilize the boat for getting in and out. We did a test last week with a low tow point . Yes it did not work as the boat started rolling from side to side. Best Regards Cliff On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 5:45 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, Great to hear about all your experiences. Well done. Have you considered fitting a small foil to the bow, just for towing, to allow your sub to be towed faster and get the nose up. Pulling from lower down would be problematic in that it would increase tendency to roll and yaw methinks. Cheers, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 9 August 2017 2:14 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Hank, I think that this is possible. Have been giving it some thought. What I would really like is the 11.5 m long, 4.3m beam powered aluminum catamaran sub tender that Dan Lance showed us at the Regatta. The vessel is designed to transport and launch two Psubs with a cruising speed of 25knots. Got to have deep pockets to built it. But can you imagine a floating psub convention in the Bahamas or Roatan ! We would have people stacked up wanting to attend. Cliff On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 7:07 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, Sounds like a great time! you are lucky that R-300 is so small. You can build a pontoon style launch cradle that can ballast up or down. You can transport the sub in the cradle on one trailer. You can tow the sub to your dive site, then get in in comfort and safety. Hank On Monday, August 7, 2017, 5:51:35 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff. I am wanting to glean as much as I can from this for my build! When you've recovered; do you think some sort of snorkel system with fresh air flowing in would have helped? Did you cover the dome while towing? What sort of towing speed were you getting when you weren't submerged? How was manoeuvrability this time round? Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 8/08/2017, at 11:26 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the best sub trip of my life! I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of the 2017 Psub Regatta. I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we ran partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to see if we could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells. Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow back was rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster both in the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies but it was close. As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing. Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board water and upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water. We were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. More latter. Cliff On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August 1-3). Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the tow line and helped with comms. Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more than I can remember last week. Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great accomplishment with the mission. A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and sub to track straight). The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 8 19:59:46 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2017 18:59:46 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: <04a601d3109c$802a8850$807f98f0$@gmail.com> References: <7272FB80-0E6E-45A8-B1F3-7238CE57051D@yahoo.com> <1654294989.1517102.1502150820767@mail.yahoo.com> <048b01d31097$fcdf6000$f69e2000$@gmail.com> <04a601d3109c$802a8850$807f98f0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Always the comedian! Best Regards Cliff On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 6:17 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, if you opt for the bra you will never live that down!! > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 August 2017 11:06 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > > > > Hugh, have been thinking of foils. I think this could work. I think the > bra approach might be better in that in addition to preventing the bow from > pitching forward, it would help stabilize the boat for getting in and out. > > > > We did a test last week with a low tow point . Yes it did not work as the > boat started rolling from side to side. > > > > Best Regards > > Cliff > > > > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 5:45 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Cliff, > > Great to hear about all your experiences. Well done. > > Have you considered fitting a small foil to the bow, just for towing, to > allow your sub to be towed faster and get the nose up. Pulling from lower > down would be problematic in that it would increase tendency to roll and > yaw methinks. > > Cheers, > > > > Hugh > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 August 2017 2:14 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > > > > Hank, I think that this is possible. Have been giving it some thought. > What I would really like is the 11.5 m long, 4.3m beam powered aluminum > catamaran sub tender that Dan Lance showed us at the Regatta. The vessel > is designed to transport and launch two Psubs with a cruising speed of > 25knots. Got to have deep pockets to built it. But can you imagine a > floating psub convention in the Bahamas or Roatan ! We would have people > stacked up wanting to attend. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 7:07 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, > > Sounds like a great time! you are lucky that R-300 is so small. You can > build a pontoon style launch cradle that can ballast up or down. You can > transport the sub in the cradle on one trailer. You can tow the sub to > your dive site, then get in in comfort and safety. > > Hank > > > > > > On Monday, August 7, 2017, 5:51:35 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > Thanks Cliff. > > I am wanting to glean as much as I can from this for my build! > > When you've recovered; do you think some sort of snorkel system with fresh > > air flowing in would have helped? Did you cover the dome while towing? > > What sort of towing speed were you getting when you weren't submerged? > > How was manoeuvrability this time round? > > Cheers Alan > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 8/08/2017, at 11:26 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad > for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the > best sub trip of my life! > > > > I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip and mailed > them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of the 2017 > Psub Regatta. > > > > I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key points > were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 miles > from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of 93F and > RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we ran partially > submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to see if we could get > out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The deeper dive on Aug > 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 miles from Doug's house > (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so even thought > the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it was a smooth > tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At the second dive site the > water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells. Could see > the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow back was rough. > With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster both in > the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing at > 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours. I did not > loose my cookies but it was close. > > > > As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with > launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing. > Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board water and > upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water. We > were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. > > > > More latter. > > > > Cliff > > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day > sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August > 1-3). > > Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day > with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate > that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands > full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time > to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. > > List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, > River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. > > This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver > and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this > operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and > extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted > with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the > tow line and helped with comms. > > Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. > Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were > both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think > River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! > > Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of > the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for > the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always > willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like > to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more > than I can remember last week. > > Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever > kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. > > River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal > (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting > the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. > > Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to > tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We > were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did > suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about > 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow > line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that > we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS > and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the > bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! > His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did > it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about > an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, > testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff > surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 > / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water > flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think > we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great > accomplishment with the mission. > > A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow > equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat > REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so > much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to > be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel > and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then > jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and > sub to track straight). > > The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves > everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this > is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, > one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can > carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow > out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support > vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of > logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend > its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 8 21:22:14 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2017 21:22:14 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Message-ID: Cliff, What if you used a vertical towing bridle attached to the upper lifting lug and the point below directly below it on the bottom of the sub? If the sub begins to tow sideways like it did when we were tied onto the top lug or the MBT plug, the towline will slide along the bridle and allow the sub to keep it's normal attitude instead of rolling or diving. For everyone else, the main reason we couldn't tow at higher speeds is that above about 5MPH the sub would tend to dive, much like flying a kite in reverse. -- -River J. Dolfi 412-997-2526 rdolfi7 at gmail.com rwd5301 at psu.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 8 21:26:19 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2017 21:26:19 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Message-ID: Cliff, What if you used a vertical towing bridle attached to the upper lifting lug and the point below directly below it on the bottom of the sub? If the sub begins to tow sideways like it did when we were tied onto the top lug or the MBT plug, the towline will slide along the bridle and allow the sub to keep it's normal attitude instead of rolling or diving. For everyone else, the main reason we couldn't tow at higher speeds is that above about 5MPH the sub would tend to dive, much like flying a kite in reverse. -- -River J. Dolfi 412-997-2526 rdolfi7 at gmail.com rwd5301 at psu.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 8 22:31:24 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 14:31:24 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <04f201d310b7$9ef7dce0$dce796a0$@gmail.com> We had the same issue with the Comsub and we put a guy standing on the stern of the sub like a waterskier which allowed us to increase the speed a bit. Always a problem with a sub. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 9 August 2017 1:26 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Cliff, What if you used a vertical towing bridle attached to the upper lifting lug and the point below directly below it on the bottom of the sub? If the sub begins to tow sideways like it did when we were tied onto the top lug or the MBT plug, the towline will slide along the bridle and allow the sub to keep it's normal attitude instead of rolling or diving. For everyone else, the main reason we couldn't tow at higher speeds is that above about 5MPH the sub would tend to dive, much like flying a kite in reverse. -- -River J. Dolfi 412-997-2526 rdolfi7 at gmail.com rwd5301 at psu.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 8 22:32:03 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2017 21:32:03 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not sure. Need to do some analysis. Cliff PS: Thanks for all the help at the Regatta. On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 8:26 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > What if you used a vertical towing bridle attached to the upper lifting > lug and the point below directly below it on the bottom of the sub? If the > sub begins to tow sideways like it did when we were tied onto the top lug > or the MBT plug, the towline will slide along the bridle and allow the sub > to keep it's normal attitude instead of rolling or diving. > > For everyone else, the main reason we couldn't tow at higher speeds is > that above about 5MPH the sub would tend to dive, much like flying a kite > in reverse. > > -- > -River J. Dolfi > > 412-997-2526 <(412)%20997-2526> > rdolfi7 at gmail.com > rwd5301 at psu.edu > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 8 23:50:30 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 15:50:30 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FFC073F-6B84-4D37-B195-7365A18CFC6D@yahoo.com> Thanks Cliff, I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e! Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there! After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier elements & air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the efficiency of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by reversing the polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements stuck to the hull with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what batteries you are using, but the new battery technologies on the way will make energy expenditure less of an issue! Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see any air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up too much when exhausting. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta. The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw and the second is a night dive in front of Doug's house https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI. Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. > > Regards > > Cliff > >> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >> 1-3). >> >> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >> >> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >> >> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >> tow line and helped with comms. >> >> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >> >> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >> than I can remember last week. >> >> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >> >> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >> >> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >> accomplishment with the mission. >> >> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >> sub to track straight). >> >> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 08:08:04 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 12:08:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: <4FFC073F-6B84-4D37-B195-7365A18CFC6D@yahoo.com> References: <4FFC073F-6B84-4D37-B195-7365A18CFC6D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <224711586.293412.1502280484575@mail.yahoo.com> It seems to me that the biggest issue to address is being able to get in and out of ?the sub out at sea. ?The towing speed is secondary to that. ?Karl Stanly made a rig from an old boat that seems to work well. ?An extension of that idea would provide a stable platform as well as increase towing speed. ? I think if the towing apparatus ?could ballast down as well would be ideal. ?The sub could simply pull into the garage and the support diver opens the valve to fully surface the garage and your away! ? I know it all sounds so simple ;-)Hank On Tuesday, August 8, 2017, 9:50:52 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff,I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e!Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there!After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier elements &air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the efficiency?of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by reversingthe polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements stuck to the hull?with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what batteries youare using, but the new battery technologies on the way will make energyexpenditure less of an issue!Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see any?air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up too muchwhen exhausting.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta.? The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3??https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw?and the second is a night dive in front of Doug's house??https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI.? Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. Regards Cliff On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August 1-3). Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the tow line and helped with comms. Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more than I can remember last week. Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great accomplishment with the mission. A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and sub to track straight). The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 08:38:21 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 07:38:21 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: <224711586.293412.1502280484575@mail.yahoo.com> References: <4FFC073F-6B84-4D37-B195-7365A18CFC6D@yahoo.com> <224711586.293412.1502280484575@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I agree egress at sea is the ultimate solution and I have been thinking along these lines. Operationally, I don't want to tow two vehicles so if I went with the submersible garage/pontoon setup, it would have to be small enough to trailer and launch with the R300. The down side is a complete rebuild of the trailer. To bad you don't live in Texas, you could knock this out in about a day! Best Regards Cliff On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 7:08 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > It seems to me that the biggest issue to address is being able to get in > and out of the sub out at sea. The towing speed is secondary to that. > Karl Stanly made a rig from an old boat that seems to work well. An > extension of that idea would provide a stable platform as well as increase > towing speed. I think if the towing apparatus could ballast down as well > would be ideal. The sub could simply pull into the garage and the support > diver opens the valve to fully surface the garage and your away! I know > it all sounds so simple ;-) > Hank > > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2017, 9:50:52 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Thanks Cliff, > I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e! > Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there! > After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier elements & > air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the > efficiency > of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by reversing > the polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements stuck to > the hull > with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what > batteries you > are using, but the new battery technologies on the way will make energy > expenditure less of an issue! > Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see > any > air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up too > much > when exhausting. > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta. The > first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3 > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw and the second is a night > dive in front of Doug's house https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI. > Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. > > Regards > > Cliff > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day > sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August > 1-3). > > Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day > with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate > that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands > full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time > to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. > > List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, > River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. > > This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver > and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this > operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and > extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted > with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the > tow line and helped with comms. > > Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. > Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were > both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think > River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! > > Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of > the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for > the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always > willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like > to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more > than I can remember last week. > > Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever > kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. > > River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal > (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting > the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. > > Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to > tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We > were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did > suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about > 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow > line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that > we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS > and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the > bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! > His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did > it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about > an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, > testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff > surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 > / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water > flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think > we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great > accomplishment with the mission. > > A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow > equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat > REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so > much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to > be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel > and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then > jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and > sub to track straight). > > The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves > everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this > is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, > one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can > carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow > out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support > vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of > logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend > its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 09:03:07 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 08:03:07 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: <4FFC073F-6B84-4D37-B195-7365A18CFC6D@yahoo.com> References: <4FFC073F-6B84-4D37-B195-7365A18CFC6D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on viewport. I used Dove soap on the viewport interior prior to taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board. The other issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became soaked with sweat. As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation off after the two hour tow to the dive site. Action items: Have small bottle of Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives. Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers. I have quite a bit of battery capacity so this could work. Unfortunately, mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a cool surface to mount on. I do have a pair of plugged off ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to cooling water source if I installed a small pump on this circuit. Pushing this water through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on water cooled motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not humidity. At Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive was about 87F so this would not have helped all that much. A small DC AC system that controlled both temperature and humidity would be better. On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy with how this worked. I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator (thanks Hugh) under the cover just aft of the pilot. I was not sure if a single regulator would work or if I would need one for each thruster but it looks like one was adequate. I have had two deep dives with the arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water in the thrusters. Best Regards Cliff On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Cliff, > I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e! > Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there! > After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier elements & > air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the > efficiency > of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by reversing > the polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements stuck to > the hull > with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what > batteries you > are using, but the new battery technologies on the way will make energy > expenditure less of an issue! > Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see > any > air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up too > much > when exhausting. > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta. The > first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3 > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw and the second is a night > dive in front of Doug's house https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI. > Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. > > Regards > > Cliff > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >> 1-3). >> >> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >> >> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >> >> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >> tow line and helped with comms. >> >> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >> >> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >> than I can remember last week. >> >> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >> >> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >> >> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >> accomplishment with the mission. >> >> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >> sub to track straight). >> >> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 11:46:22 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 15:46:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: <4FFC073F-6B84-4D37-B195-7365A18CFC6D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1907666847.421009.1502293582178@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Cliff, Congrats on your dives. Sub really looks great in those videos. With regards to an AC solution, one low tech method would be to blow air across ice in a small cooler. Water ice can be super cooled with Dry Ice the night before. Dry ice is about - 100 F and water ice cooled to this temperature should stay cold for quite some time. Greg C From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on viewport.? I used Dove soap on the viewport interior?prior to taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board.? The other issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became soaked with sweat.? As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation off?after the two hour tow to the dive site.? Action items:? Have small bottle of Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives.? Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers.? I have quite a bit of battery capacity so this could work.? Unfortunately, mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a cool surface to mount on.? I do have a pair of plugged off ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to cooling water source if I installed a small pump on this circuit.? Pushing this water through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on?water cooled motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not?humidity.? ?At Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive was about 87F so this would not have helped all that much.? A small DC AC system that controlled both temperature and humidity would be better. On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy with how this worked.? I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator (thanks Hugh) ?under the cover just aft of the pilot.?I was not sure if a single regulator would work or if I would need one for each thruster but it looks like one was adequate.? I have had two deep dives with the arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water in the thrusters. Best Regards Cliff On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff,I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e!Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there!After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier elements &air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the efficiency?of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by reversingthe polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements stuck to the hull?with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what batteries youare using, but the new battery technologies on the way will make energyexpenditure less of an issue!Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see any?air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up too muchwhen exhausting.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta.? The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3??https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw?and the second is a night dive in front of Doug's house??https://www.youtube. com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI.? Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. Regards Cliff On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August 1-3). Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the tow line and helped with comms. Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more than I can remember last week. Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great accomplishment with the mission. A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and sub to track straight). The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 12:10:37 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 04:10:37 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: <4FFC073F-6B84-4D37-B195-7365A18CFC6D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Cliff, some funny person made up the birthday card below & gave me a bottle of dishwashing liquid for my birthday in the weekend! They thought it was really humorous that my dome had fogged up on a test run! That was unfortunate as it would have been fantastic footage with that clarity. If you could flow air over the peltier cooler, you would be able to remove some humidity wouldn't you. I have a peltier somewhere & I remember ice forming on it! As you say the trick is transferring the heat to the outside. If you have any success with the peltiers I would be interested to know, you have more hot weather than we do to test it! I learnt a bit from the operations 4 years ago. I am repeating what I have said before but transferring to & from Snoopy was not easy in even a small wave. The submarine sits relatively still in the water like a rock, while the support boat bounces around. 3 of us were fending the boat off with arms & legs, with the boat in danger of coming down on the sub. If you are looking at building a cradle for the sub it would either need to be big enough so that it moved up & down with the waves or made with inflatable pontoons on it. Visited an inflatable boat factory recently; they make a lot of fibreglass tenders with the inflatable pontoons around them, & do one off designs. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 10/08/2017, at 1:03 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on viewport. I used Dove soap on the viewport interior prior to taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board. The other issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became soaked with sweat. As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation off after the two hour tow to the dive site. Action items: Have small bottle of Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives. > > Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers. I have quite a bit of battery capacity so this could work. Unfortunately, mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a cool surface to mount on. I do have a pair of plugged off ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to cooling water source if I installed a small pump on this circuit. Pushing this water through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on water cooled motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not humidity. At Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive was about 87F so this would not have helped all that much. A small DC AC system that controlled both temperature and humidity would be better. > > On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy with how this worked. I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator (thanks Hugh) under the cover just aft of the pilot. I was not sure if a single regulator would work or if I would need one for each thruster but it looks like one was adequate. I have had two deep dives with the arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water in the thrusters. > > Best Regards > > Cliff > >> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Thanks Cliff, >> I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e! >> Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there! >> After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier elements & >> air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the efficiency >> of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by reversing >> the polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements stuck to the hull >> with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what batteries you >> are using, but the new battery technologies on the way will make energy >> expenditure less of an issue! >> Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see any >> air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up too much >> when exhausting. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta. The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw and the second is a night dive in front of Doug's house https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI. Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >>>> 1-3). >>>> >>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >>>> >>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>>> >>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>>> tow line and helped with comms. >>>> >>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>>> >>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >>>> than I can remember last week. >>>> >>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>>> >>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>>> >>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>>> accomplishment with the mission. >>>> >>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >>>> sub to track straight). >>>> >>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image2.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 95771 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 14:16:04 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 13:16:04 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: <1907666847.421009.1502293582178@mail.yahoo.com> References: <4FFC073F-6B84-4D37-B195-7365A18CFC6D@yahoo.com> <1907666847.421009.1502293582178@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks James. I know on the first Psub convention in Islamorada four years ago, Snoopy was towed out with bags of ice for cooling. I like the idea of using the dry ice to super cool the water. I will have to give this some thought. Regards Cliff On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 10:46 AM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Cliff, > > Congrats on your dives. Sub really looks great in those videos. > > With regards to an AC solution, one low tech method would be to blow air > across ice in a small cooler. Water ice can be super cooled with Dry Ice > the night before. Dry ice is about - 100 F and water ice cooled to this > temperature should stay cold for quite some time. > > Greg C > ------------------------------ > *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 9, 2017 9:05 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > > Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on > viewport. I used Dove soap on the viewport interior prior to taking off > but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the dive, this > treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board. The other > issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became soaked with > sweat. As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation off after > the two hour tow to the dive site. Action items: Have small bottle of > Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives. > > Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers. I have quite a bit of > battery capacity so this could work. Unfortunately, mounting on hull won't > work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the hull so I > don't have a cool surface to mount on. I do have a pair of plugged off > ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to cooling water > source if I installed a small pump on this circuit. Pushing this water > through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on water cooled > motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not humidity. At > Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive was about > 87F so this would not have helped all that much. A small DC AC system that > controlled both temperature and humidity would be better. > > On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy with how > this worked. I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4" SS tubing > that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator > (thanks Hugh) under the cover just aft of the pilot. I was not sure if a > single regulator would work or if I would need one for each thruster but it > looks like one was adequate. I have had two deep dives with the > arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with > water in the thrusters. > > Best Regards > > Cliff > > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks Cliff, > I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e! > Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there! > After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier elements & > air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the > efficiency > of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by reversing > the polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements stuck to > the hull > with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what > batteries you > are using, but the new battery technologies on the way will make energy > expenditure less of an issue! > Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see > any > air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up too > much > when exhausting. > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta. The > first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3 https://www.youtube.com/ > watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw and the > second is a night dive in front of Doug's house https://www.youtube. > com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI . > Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. > > Regards > > Cliff > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day > sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August > 1-3). > > Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day > with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate > that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands > full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time > to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. > > List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, > River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. > > This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver > and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this > operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and > extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted > with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the > tow line and helped with comms. > > Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. > Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were > both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think > River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! > > Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of > the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for > the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always > willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like > to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more > than I can remember last week. > > Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever > kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. > > River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal > (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting > the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. > > Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to > tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We > were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did > suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about > 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow > line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that > we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS > and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the > bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! > His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did > it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about > an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, > testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff > surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 > / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water > flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think > we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great > accomplishment with the mission. > > A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow > equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat > REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so > much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to > be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel > and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then > jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and > sub to track straight). > > The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves > everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this > is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, > one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can > carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow > out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support > vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of > logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend > its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > Virus-free. > www.avast.com > > <#m_-7986380982897637296_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 14:25:58 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (peaceroom via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2017 14:25:58 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 Message-ID: <2fi6mahfj5ijw82a4lodu025.1502303158266@email.android.com> Reference,summer submarine cooling. A scaled down version of the small cooler with ice and DC fan, similar to the one in Sportys, aviation supplies is what a lot of planes use. Just an inexpensive idea. Peltier coolers provide very little cooling versus DC current used. Mike Patterson? Sent from my Samsung device -------- Original message -------- From: via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/9/17 11:46 AM (GMT-05:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: ?? 1. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... ????? (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) ?? 2. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... ????? (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 08:03:07 -0500 From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on viewport.? I used Dove soap on the viewport interior prior to taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board.? The other issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became soaked with sweat.? As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation off after the two hour tow to the dive site.? Action items:? Have small bottle of Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives. Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers.? I have quite a bit of battery capacity so this could work.? Unfortunately, mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a cool surface to mount on.? I do have a pair of plugged off ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to cooling water source if I installed a small pump on this circuit.? Pushing this water through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on water cooled motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not humidity.?? At Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive was about 87F so this would not have helped all that much.? A small DC AC system that controlled both temperature and humidity would be better. On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy with how this worked.? I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator (thanks Hugh)? under the cover just aft of the pilot. I was not sure if a single regulator would work or if I would need one for each thruster but it looks like one was adequate.? I have had two deep dives with the arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water in the thrusters. Best Regards Cliff On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Cliff, > I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e! > Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there! > After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier elements & > air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the > efficiency > of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by reversing > the polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements stuck to > the hull > with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what > batteries you > are using, but the new battery technologies on the way will make energy > expenditure less of an issue! > Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see > any > air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up too > much > when exhausting. > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta.? The > first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3 > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw and the second is a night > dive in front of Doug's house? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI. > Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. > > Regards > > Cliff > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >> 1-3). >> >> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >> >> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >> >> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >> tow line and helped with comms. >> >> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >> >> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >> than I can remember last week. >> >> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >> >> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >> >> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >> accomplishment with the mission. >> >> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >> sub to track straight). >> >> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 15:46:22 +0000 (UTC) From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Message-ID: <1907666847.421009.1502293582178 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Cliff, Congrats on your dives. Sub really looks great in those videos. With regards to an AC solution, one low tech method would be to blow air across ice in a small cooler. Water ice can be super cooled with Dry Ice the night before. Dry ice is about - 100 F and water ice cooled to this temperature should stay cold for quite some time. Greg C????? From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... ?? Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on viewport.? I used Dove soap on the viewport interior?prior to taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board.? The other issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became soaked with sweat.? As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation off?after the two hour tow to the dive site.? Action items:? Have small bottle of Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives.? Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers.? I have quite a bit of battery capacity so this could work.? Unfortunately, mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a cool surface to mount on.? I do have a pair of plugged off ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to cooling water source if I installed a small pump on this circuit.? Pushing this water through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on?water cooled motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not?humidity.? ?At Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive was about 87F so this would not have helped all that much.? A small DC AC system that controlled both temperature and humidity would be better. On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy with how this worked.? I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator (thanks Hugh) ?under the cover just aft of the pilot.?I was not sure if a single regulator would work or if I would need one for each thruster but it looks like one was adequate.? I have had two deep dives with the arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water in the thrusters. Best Regards Cliff On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff,I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e!Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there!After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier elements &air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the efficiency?of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by reversingthe polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements stuck to the hull?with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what batteries youare using, but the new battery technologies on the way will make energyexpenditure less of an issue!Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see any?air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up too muchwhen exhausting.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta.? The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3??https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw?and the second is a night dive in front of Doug's house??https://www.youtube. com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI.? Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. Regards Cliff On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August 1-3). Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the tow line and helped with comms. Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more than I can remember last week. Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great accomplishment with the mission. A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and sub to track straight). The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?? |? | Virus-free. www.avast.com? | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 ***************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 14:31:19 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (peaceroom via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2017 14:31:19 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 20 Message-ID: Reference Dome fogging /clarity ; used the new last year's SCUBA mask antifog called SPIT. On Snoopy, 3 small drops used inside and out ,washed with wet lint free towel. ?Worked great! Mike Patterson? Sent from my Samsung device -------- Original message -------- From: via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/9/17 12:10 PM (GMT-05:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 20 Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: ?? 1. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 04:10:37 +1200 From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Cliff, some funny person made up the birthday card below & gave me a bottle of dishwashing liquid for my birthday in the weekend! They thought it was really humorous that my dome had fogged up on a test run! ?? That was unfortunate as it would have been fantastic footage with that clarity. ?? If you could flow air over the peltier cooler, you would be able to remove some humidity wouldn't you. I have a peltier somewhere & I remember ice forming on it! As you say the trick is transferring the heat to the outside. ?? If you have any success with the peltiers I would be interested to know, you have more hot weather than we do to test it! ?? I learnt a bit from the operations 4 years ago. I am repeating what I have said before but transferring to & from Snoopy was not easy in even a small wave. The submarine sits relatively still in the water like a rock, while the support boat bounces around. 3 of us were fending the boat off with arms & legs, with the boat in danger of coming down on the sub. If you are looking at building a cradle for the sub it would either need to be big enough so that it moved up & down with the waves or made with inflatable pontoons on it. Visited an inflatable boat factory recently; they make a lot of fibreglass tenders with the inflatable pontoons around them, & do one off designs. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 10/08/2017, at 1:03 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on viewport.? I used Dove soap on the viewport interior prior to taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board.? The other issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became soaked with sweat.? As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation off after the two hour tow to the dive site.? Action items:? Have small bottle of Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives. > > Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers.? I have quite a bit of battery capacity so this could work.? Unfortunately, mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a cool surface to mount on.? I do have a pair of plugged off ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to cooling water source if I installed a small pump on this circuit.? Pushing this water through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on water cooled motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not humidity.?? At Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive was about 87F so this would not have helped all that much.? A small DC AC system that controlled both temperature and humidity would be better. > > On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy with how this worked.? I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator (thanks Hugh)? under the cover just aft of the pilot. I was not sure if a single regulator would work or if I would need one for each thruster but it looks like one was adequate.? I have had two deep dives with the arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water in the thrusters. > > Best Regards > > Cliff > >> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Thanks Cliff, >> I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e! >> Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there! >> After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier elements & >> air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the efficiency >> of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by reversing >> the polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements stuck to the hull >> with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what batteries you >> are using, but the new battery technologies on the way will make energy >> expenditure less of an issue! >> Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see any >> air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up too much >> when exhausting. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta.? The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw and the second is a night dive in front of Doug's house? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI.? Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >>>> 1-3). >>>> >>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >>>> >>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>>> >>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>>> tow line and helped with comms. >>>> >>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>>> >>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >>>> than I can remember last week. >>>> >>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>>> >>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>>> >>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>>> accomplishment with the mission. >>>> >>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >>>> sub to track straight). >>>> >>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image2.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 95771 bytes Desc: not available URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 20 ***************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 15:10:25 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 12:10:25 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Message-ID: <8574493.10822.1502305826211@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 16:00:10 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 20:00:10 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Summer Sub Cooling Message-ID: I have my redneck Air Conditioner that works great. Small cooler with frozen water bottles. With the unit placed all the way aft, 90 degree 3" pipe plastic pipe fitting attached to top, facing forward. From the side, a 3" flexible hose that can attach to a bilge fan that's attached high on the bulkhead, air flow pointing forward. Fan draws air across frozen bottles. Also works as a dehumidifier. Gave Mark Ragan a larger one for his sub. Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 16:06:13 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 16:06:13 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Summer Sub Cooling In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: So I presume when your cooling agent gives out, you can just drink it as a last resort. Brilliant! Alec On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I have my redneck Air Conditioner that works great. Small cooler with > frozen water bottles. With the unit placed all the way aft, 90 degree 3" > pipe plastic pipe fitting attached to top, facing forward. From the side, a > 3" flexible hose that can attach to a bilge fan that's attached high on the > bulkhead, air flow pointing forward. Fan draws air across frozen bottles. > Also works as a dehumidifier. Gave Mark Ragan a larger one for his sub. > > > > Get Outlook for Android > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 16:53:57 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 20:53:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... References: <241758636.822566.1502312037200.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <241758636.822566.1502312037200@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff, How did the lights perform ? Pete -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 8/9/17, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" , "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Wednesday, August 9, 2017, 2:10 PM I'm sure you're thinking of this as well, but dry ice, if not complete separated from the thing it's cooling, can sometimes infuse the object being cooled with CO2, which gets released when the object heats up/melts again.? Possibly this is going to very minor and handled by the scrubber, but avoiding the unnecessary introduction of CO2 into the hull may be better (e.g. ensuring there is no CO2 transferred to the cooling material). -----Original Message----- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Aug 9, 2017 11:16 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Thanks James.? I know on the first Psub convention in Islamorada four years ago, Snoopy was towed out with bags of ice for cooling.? I like the idea of using the dry ice to super cool the water.? I will have to give this some thought. Regards Cliff On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 10:46 AM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, Congrats on your dives. Sub really looks great in those videos. With regards to an AC solution, one low tech method would be to blow air across ice in a small cooler. Water ice can be super cooled with Dry Ice the night before. Dry ice is about - 100 F and water ice cooled to this temperature should stay cold for quite some time. Greg C From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on viewport.? I used Dove soap on the viewport interior?prior to taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board.? The other issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became soaked with sweat.? As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation off?after the two hour tow to the dive site.? Action items:? Have small bottle of Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives.? Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers.? I have quite a bit of battery capacity so this could work.? Unfortunately, mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a cool surface to mount on.? I do have a pair of plugged off ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to cooling water source if I installed a small pump on this circuit.? Pushing this water through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on?water cooled motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not?humidity.? ?At Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive was about 87F so this would not have helped all that much.? A small DC AC system that controlled both temperature and humidity would be better. On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy with how this worked.? I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator (thanks Hugh) ?under the cover just aft of the pilot.?I was not sure if a single regulator would work or if I would need one for each thruster but it looks like one was adequate.? I have had two deep dives with the arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water in the thrusters. Best Regards Cliff On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff,I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e!Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there!After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier elements &air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the efficiency?of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by reversingthe polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements stuck to the hull?with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what batteries youare using, but the new battery technologies on the way will make energyexpenditure less of an issue!Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see any?air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up too muchwhen exhausting.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta.? The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3??https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw?and the second is a night dive in front of Doug's house??https://www.youtube. com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI.? Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. Regards Cliff On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August 1-3). Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the tow line and helped with comms. Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more than I can remember last week. Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great accomplishment with the mission. A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and sub to track straight). The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles Virus-free. www.avast.com ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 17:03:45 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 16:03:45 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: <241758636.822566.1502312037200@mail.yahoo.com> References: <241758636.822566.1502312037200.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <241758636.822566.1502312037200@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Lights performed great! These 5K lumen lights are very bright. I have four on the boat two pointing forward and two to the side. The lights would illuminate the water around the boat very nicely. Also can run the lights indefinitely out of the water. After the night dive when the boat was on the dock, we used the sub lights to light up all around the sub so we could secure it for the night. I need to look at my data to see what the measured current was for all four lights but I? know it was low . Flood orientation worked great. At the base, I had better vis at night on the bottom with lights than in day without. Also fish are attracted to light. Best Regard Cliff On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, How did the lights perform ? > > Pete > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 8/9/17, irox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>, "Personal Submersibles General > Discussion" > Date: Wednesday, August 9, 2017, 2:10 PM > > > I'm sure you're > thinking of this as well, but dry ice, if not complete > separated from the thing it's cooling, can sometimes > infuse the object being cooled with CO2, which gets released > when the object heats up/melts again. Possibly this is > going to very minor and handled by the scrubber, but > avoiding the unnecessary introduction of CO2 into the hull > may be better (e.g. ensuring there is no CO2 transferred to > the cooling material). > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > > > Sent: Aug 9, 2017 11:16 AM > > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada > Trip Report... > > > > Thanks > James. I know on the first Psub convention in Islamorada > four years ago, Snoopy was towed out with bags of ice for > cooling. I like the idea of using the dry ice to super > cool the water. I will have to give this some > thought. > Regards > Cliff > On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at > 10:46 AM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote: > Hi > Cliff, > Congrats > on your dives. Sub really looks great in those > videos. > With > regards to an AC solution, one low tech method would be to > blow air across ice in a small cooler. Water ice can be > super cooled with Dry Ice the night before. Dry ice is about > - 100 F and water ice cooled to this temperature should stay > cold for quite some time. > Greg C > From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion org> > Sent: Wednesday, August > 9, 2017 9:05 AM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > > > Footage > from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on > viewport. I used Dove soap on the viewport interior prior > to taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and > duration of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did > not have more soap on board. The other issue is I only had > two hand towels on board and these became soaked with > sweat. As such, they were not good for cleaning the > condensation off after the two hour tow to the dive site. > Action items: Have small bottle of Dove soap on board and > more towels for future long duration dives. > Yes, > I have been reading up on peltier coolers. I have quite a > bit of battery capacity so this could work. Unfortunately, > mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic > foam under the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a > cool surface to mount on. I do have a pair of plugged off > ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to > cooling water source if I installed a small pump on this > circuit. Pushing this water through a small fin-fan cooler > like you would see on water cooled motorcycle would help > with the temperature some what but not humidity. At > Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the > dive was about 87F so this would not have helped all that > much. A small DC AC system that controlled both > temperature and humidity would be better. > On > the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very > happy with how this worked. I have all four of my > thrusters connected to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold > into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator (thanks > Hugh) under the cover just aft of the pilot. I was not > sure if a single regulator would work or if I would need one > for each thruster but it looks like one was adequate. I > have had two deep dives with the arrangement, one to 155 ft > and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water in the > thrusters. > Best > Regards > Cliff > On > Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > org> wrote: > Thanks > Cliff,I > presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is > the entr?e!Nice > & clear, you must have been pretty happy down > there!After > you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier > elements &air > conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% > the efficiency of > a normal compression cycle system, but are really small > & by reversingthe > polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements > stuck to the hull with > air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure > what batteries youare > using, but the new battery technologies on the way will make > energyexpenditure > less of an issue!Do > you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? > Couldn't see any air > coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't > building up too muchwhen > exhausting.Cheers > Alan > > > Sent from my > iPad > On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, > Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from > 2017 Psubs Regatta. The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles > offshore on Aug 3 https://www.youtube.com/ > watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw and the second is a night > dive in front of Doug's house https://www.youtube. > com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI. Alec is working on a > more comprehensive video of the > Regatta. > Regards > Cliff > On > Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > Greetings > PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the > 4-day > > sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July > 31st, August > > 1-3). > > > > Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / > setup day > > with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was > unfortunate > > that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had > our hands > > full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had > enough time > > to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some > basic diving. > > > > List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick > Maxwell, > > River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. > > > > This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) > saturation diver > > and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us > on this > > operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his > knowledge and > > extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to > have chatted > > with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan > manned the > > tow line and helped with comms. > > > > Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog > men. > > Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. > they were > > both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). > I think > > River took a little jelly sting for the team. What > troopers! > > > > Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick > is one of > > the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even > brought a gift for > > the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is > always > > willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone > who'd like > > to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I > learned more > > than I can remember last week. > > > > Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing > whatever > > kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the > R-300. > > > > River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in > the canal > > (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment > was getting > > the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. > > > > Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp > Yamaha) was able to > > tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about > 4mph). We > > were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, > though we did > > suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a > spot about > > 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that > point the tow > > line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we > decided that > > we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine > radio to OTS > > and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff > neared the > > bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from > the Whaler! > > His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but > wow did > > it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff > spent about > > an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and > maneuvering about, > > testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the > time Cliff > > surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time > stood at 4.5 > > / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the > water > > flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon > returning I think > > we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt > great > > accomplishment with the mission. > > > > A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need > better tow > > equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). > Our boat > > REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into > waves isn't so > > much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line > needs to > > be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow > vessel > > and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking > and then > > jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for > boat and > > sub to track straight). > > > > The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and > the waves > > everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation > like this > > is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for > sure. At dinner, > > one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel > that can > > carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time > consuming tow > > out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his > support > > vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in > terms of > > logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan > will lend > > its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or > g > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l > istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > ______________________________ > _________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > ______________________________ > _________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 17:18:46 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 09:18:46 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 In-Reply-To: <2fi6mahfj5ijw82a4lodu025.1502303158266@email.android.com> References: <2fi6mahfj5ijw82a4lodu025.1502303158266@email.android.com> Message-ID: Mike, the peltier is only 1/4 to 1/3 as efficient as a compressor system, but Cliff & I have very little spare room. They serve as heaters by reversing polarity. I am not sure of their efficiency as heaters compared with resistive coils; probably poor! Cliff would have to cut a hole in his fibreglass outer & dig back the syntactic foam to the pressure hull to get cooling on the reverse side of the peltier or compressor air conditioning unit. Could look sexy if he put some shark gills in it for water ingress. Cliff didn't have a cover on the dome, & that would let a lot of heat in. We had a wet towel on Snoopy last time at Islamorada. Have heard that people like Nuytco use a shore based air conditioner to cool the sub down prior to a dive; but I don't know how long that benefit would last being towed out that distance. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 10/08/2017, at 6:25 AM, peaceroom via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Reference,summer submarine cooling. A scaled down version of the small cooler with ice and DC fan, similar to the one in Sportys, aviation supplies is what a lot of planes use. Just an inexpensive idea. Peltier coolers provide very little cooling versus DC current used. Mike Patterson > > > > Sent from my Samsung device > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 8/9/17 11:46 AM (GMT-05:00) > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 > > Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... > (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) > 2. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... > (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 08:03:07 -0500 > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on > viewport. I used Dove soap on the viewport interior prior to taking off > but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the dive, this > treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board. The other > issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became soaked with > sweat. As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation off after > the two hour tow to the dive site. Action items: Have small bottle of > Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives. > > Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers. I have quite a bit of > battery capacity so this could work. Unfortunately, mounting on hull won't > work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the hull so I > don't have a cool surface to mount on. I do have a pair of plugged off > ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to cooling water > source if I installed a small pump on this circuit. Pushing this water > through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on water cooled > motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not humidity. At > Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive was about > 87F so this would not have helped all that much. A small DC AC system that > controlled both temperature and humidity would be better. > > On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy with how > this worked. I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4" SS tubing > that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator > (thanks Hugh) under the cover just aft of the pilot. I was not sure if a > single regulator would work or if I would need one for each thruster but it > looks like one was adequate. I have had two deep dives with the > arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with > water in the thrusters. > > Best Regards > > Cliff > > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Thanks Cliff, > > I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e! > > Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there! > > After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier elements & > > air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the > > efficiency > > of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by reversing > > the polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements stuck to > > the hull > > with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what > > batteries you > > are using, but the new battery technologies on the way will make energy > > expenditure less of an issue! > > Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see > > any > > air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up too > > much > > when exhausting. > > Cheers Alan > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta. The > > first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3 > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw and the second is a night > > dive in front of Doug's house https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI. > > Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. > > > > Regards > > > > Cliff > > > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > >> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day > >> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August > >> 1-3). > >> > >> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day > >> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate > >> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands > >> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time > >> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. > >> > >> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, > >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. > >> > >> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver > >> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this > >> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and > >> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted > >> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the > >> tow line and helped with comms. > >> > >> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. > >> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were > >> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think > >> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! > >> > >> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of > >> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for > >> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always > >> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like > >> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more > >> than I can remember last week. > >> > >> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever > >> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. > >> > >> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal > >> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting > >> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. > >> > >> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to > >> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We > >> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did > >> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about > >> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow > >> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that > >> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS > >> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the > >> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! > >> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did > >> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about > >> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, > >> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff > >> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 > >> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water > >> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think > >> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great > >> accomplishment with the mission. > >> > >> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow > >> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat > >> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so > >> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to > >> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel > >> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then > >> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and > >> sub to track straight). > >> > >> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves > >> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this > >> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, > >> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can > >> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow > >> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support > >> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of > >> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend > >> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 15:46:22 +0000 (UTC) > From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > Message-ID: <1907666847.421009.1502293582178 at mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Cliff, > Congrats on your dives. Sub really looks great in those videos. > With regards to an AC solution, one low tech method would be to blow air across ice in a small cooler. Water ice can be super cooled with Dry Ice the night before. Dry ice is about - 100 F and water ice cooled to this temperature should stay cold for quite some time. > Greg C From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 9:05 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > > Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on viewport.? I used Dove soap on the viewport interior?prior to taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board.? The other issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became soaked with sweat.? As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation off?after the two hour tow to the dive site.? Action items:? Have small bottle of Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives.? > Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers.? I have quite a bit of battery capacity so this could work.? Unfortunately, mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a cool surface to mount on.? I do have a pair of plugged off ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to cooling water source if I installed a small pump on this circuit.? Pushing this water through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on?water cooled motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not?humidity.? ?At Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive was about 87F so this would not have helped all that much.? A small DC AC system that controlled both temperature and humidity would be better. > On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy with how this worked.? I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator (thanks Hugh) ?under the cover just aft of the pilot.?I was not sure if a single regulator would work or if I would need one for each thruster but it looks like one was adequate.? I have had two deep dives with the arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water in the thrusters. > Best Regards > Cliff > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks Cliff,I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e!Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there!After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier elements &air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the efficiency?of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by reversingthe polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements stuck to the hull?with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what batteries youare using, but the new battery technologies on the way will make energyexpenditure less of an issue!Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see any?air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up too muchwhen exhausting.Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta.? The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3??https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw?and the second is a night dive in front of Doug's house??https://www.youtube. com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI.? Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. > Regards > Cliff > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day > sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August > 1-3). > > Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day > with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate > that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands > full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time > to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. > > List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, > River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. > > This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver > and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this > operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and > extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted > with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the > tow line and helped with comms. > > Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. > Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were > both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think > River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! > > Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of > the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for > the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always > willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like > to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more > than I can remember last week. > > Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever > kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. > > River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal > (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting > the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. > > Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to > tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We > were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did > suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about > 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow > line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that > we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS > and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the > bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! > His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did > it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about > an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, > testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff > surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 > / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water > flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think > we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great > accomplishment with the mission. > > A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow > equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat > REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so > much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to > be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel > and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then > jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and > sub to track straight). > > The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves > everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this > is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, > one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can > carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow > out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support > vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of > logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend > its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 > ***************************************************** > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 17:45:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 17:45:49 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: <241758636.822566.1502312037200.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <241758636.822566.1502312037200@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'll see if I can attach a couple of photos of the initial light test... On 8/9/17, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Lights performed great! These 5K lumen lights are very bright. I have > four on the boat two pointing forward and two to the side. The lights > would illuminate the water around the boat very nicely. Also can run the > lights indefinitely out of the water. After the night dive when the boat > was on the dock, we used the sub lights to light up all around the sub so > we could secure it for the night. I need to look at my data to see what > the measured current was for all four lights but I? know it was low . > Flood orientation worked great. At the base, I had better vis at night on > the bottom with lights than in day without. Also fish are attracted to > light. > > Best Regard > > Cliff > > On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Cliff, How did the lights perform ? >> >> Pete >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Wed, 8/9/17, irox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>, "Personal Submersibles General >> Discussion" >> Date: Wednesday, August 9, 2017, 2:10 PM >> >> >> I'm sure you're >> thinking of this as well, but dry ice, if not complete >> separated from the thing it's cooling, can sometimes >> infuse the object being cooled with CO2, which gets released >> when the object heats up/melts again. Possibly this is >> going to very minor and handled by the scrubber, but >> avoiding the unnecessary introduction of CO2 into the hull >> may be better (e.g. ensuring there is no CO2 transferred to >> the cooling material). >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >> >> >> Sent: Aug 9, 2017 11:16 AM >> >> To: Personal Submersibles General >> Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada >> Trip Report... >> >> >> >> Thanks >> James. I know on the first Psub convention in Islamorada >> four years ago, Snoopy was towed out with bags of ice for >> cooling. I like the idea of using the dry ice to super >> cool the water. I will have to give this some >> thought. >> Regards >> Cliff >> On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at >> 10:46 AM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> wrote: >> Hi >> Cliff, >> Congrats >> on your dives. Sub really looks great in those >> videos. >> With >> regards to an AC solution, one low tech method would be to >> blow air across ice in a small cooler. Water ice can be >> super cooled with Dry Ice the night before. Dry ice is about >> - 100 F and water ice cooled to this temperature should stay >> cold for quite some time. >> Greg C >> From: Cliff Redus via >> Personal_Submersibles > org> >> To: Personal >> Submersibles General Discussion > org> >> Sent: Wednesday, August >> 9, 2017 9:05 AM >> Subject: Re: >> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... >> >> >> Footage >> from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on >> viewport. I used Dove soap on the viewport interior prior >> to taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and >> duration of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did >> not have more soap on board. The other issue is I only had >> two hand towels on board and these became soaked with >> sweat. As such, they were not good for cleaning the >> condensation off after the two hour tow to the dive site. >> Action items: Have small bottle of Dove soap on board and >> more towels for future long duration dives. >> Yes, >> I have been reading up on peltier coolers. I have quite a >> bit of battery capacity so this could work. Unfortunately, >> mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic >> foam under the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a >> cool surface to mount on. I do have a pair of plugged off >> ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to >> cooling water source if I installed a small pump on this >> circuit. Pushing this water through a small fin-fan cooler >> like you would see on water cooled motorcycle would help >> with the temperature some what but not humidity. At >> Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the >> dive was about 87F so this would not have helped all that >> much. A small DC AC system that controlled both >> temperature and humidity would be better. >> On >> the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very >> happy with how this worked. I have all four of my >> thrusters connected to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold >> into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator (thanks >> Hugh) under the cover just aft of the pilot. I was not >> sure if a single regulator would work or if I would need one >> for each thruster but it looks like one was adequate. I >> have had two deep dives with the arrangement, one to 155 ft >> and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water in the >> thrusters. >> Best >> Regards >> Cliff >> On >> Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> > org> wrote: >> Thanks >> Cliff,I >> presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is >> the entr?e!Nice >> & clear, you must have been pretty happy down >> there!After >> you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier >> elements &air >> conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% >> the efficiency of >> a normal compression cycle system, but are really small >> & by reversingthe >> polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements >> stuck to the hull with >> air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure >> what batteries youare >> using, but the new battery technologies on the way will make >> energyexpenditure >> less of an issue!Do >> you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? >> Couldn't see any air >> coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't >> building up too muchwhen >> exhausting.Cheers >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my >> iPad >> On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, >> Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > org> wrote: >> >> Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from >> 2017 Psubs Regatta. The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles >> offshore on Aug 3 https://www.youtube.com/ >> watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw and the second is a night >> dive in front of Doug's house https://www.youtube. >> com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI. Alec is working on a >> more comprehensive video of the >> Regatta. >> Regards >> Cliff >> On >> Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via >> Personal_Submersibles > org> wrote: >> Greetings >> PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the >> 4-day >> >> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July >> 31st, August >> >> 1-3). >> >> >> >> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / >> setup day >> >> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was >> unfortunate >> >> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had >> our hands >> >> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had >> enough time >> >> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some >> basic diving. >> >> >> >> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick >> Maxwell, >> >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >> >> >> >> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) >> saturation diver >> >> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us >> on this >> >> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his >> knowledge and >> >> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to >> have chatted >> >> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan >> manned the >> >> tow line and helped with comms. >> >> >> >> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog >> men. >> >> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. >> they were >> >> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). >> I think >> >> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What >> troopers! >> >> >> >> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick >> is one of >> >> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even >> brought a gift for >> >> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is >> always >> >> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone >> who'd like >> >> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I >> learned more >> >> than I can remember last week. >> >> >> >> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing >> whatever >> >> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the >> R-300. >> >> >> >> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in >> the canal >> >> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment >> was getting >> >> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >> >> >> >> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp >> Yamaha) was able to >> >> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about >> 4mph). We >> >> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, >> though we did >> >> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a >> spot about >> >> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that >> point the tow >> >> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we >> decided that >> >> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine >> radio to OTS >> >> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff >> neared the >> >> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from >> the Whaler! >> >> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but >> wow did >> >> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff >> spent about >> >> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and >> maneuvering about, >> >> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the >> time Cliff >> >> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time >> stood at 4.5 >> >> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the >> water >> >> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon >> returning I think >> >> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt >> great >> >> accomplishment with the mission. >> >> >> >> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need >> better tow >> >> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). >> Our boat >> >> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into >> waves isn't so >> >> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line >> needs to >> >> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow >> vessel >> >> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking >> and then >> >> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for >> boat and >> >> sub to track straight). >> >> >> >> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and >> the waves >> >> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation >> like this >> >> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for >> sure. At dinner, >> >> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel >> that can >> >> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time >> consuming tow >> >> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his >> support >> >> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in >> terms of >> >> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan >> will lend >> >> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or >> g >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l >> istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >> >> >> >> ______________________________ >> _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing >> list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >> org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >> listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> ______________________________ >> _________________ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >> org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >> listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> ______________________________ >> _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >> org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >> listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> >> >> Virus-free. www.avast.com >> >> ______________________________ >> _________________ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >> org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >> listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: R-300 light test 1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 68040 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: R-300 light test 2.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 115859 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 18:27:30 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 22:27:30 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K350 rear thruster disassemble Message-ID: Jon, You still have the rear motor and housing from your K600? Want to unload it? :-) Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 18:32:16 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 10:32:16 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 In-Reply-To: References: <2fi6mahfj5ijw82a4lodu025.1502303158266@email.android.com> Message-ID: <72DCB6AB-3610-4BFA-853A-69E833780486@yahoo.com> Just did some Googling on the Peltier as a heater. In an experiment I saw it was more efficient than resistive heating! This depends to an extent on the ambient heat differential. I would imagine you would need to attach them to the hull & surround them with an insulating material to stop the metal of the hull radiating back the cold or heat produced, & force it to transfer it all to the water. Another bunny trail to investigate. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 10/08/2017, at 9:18 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Mike, > the peltier is only 1/4 to 1/3 as efficient as a compressor system, but Cliff > & I have very little spare room. They serve as heaters by reversing polarity. > I am not sure of their efficiency as heaters compared with resistive coils; > probably poor! Cliff would have to cut a hole in his fibreglass outer & dig back > the syntactic foam to the pressure hull to get cooling on the reverse side of > the peltier or compressor air conditioning unit. Could look sexy if he put some > shark gills in it for water ingress. > Cliff didn't have a cover on the dome, & that would let a lot of heat in. > We had a wet towel on Snoopy last time at Islamorada. > Have heard that people like Nuytco use a shore based air conditioner to cool > the sub down prior to a dive; but I don't know how long that benefit would > last being towed out that distance. > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 10/08/2017, at 6:25 AM, peaceroom via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Reference,summer submarine cooling. A scaled down version of the small cooler with ice and DC fan, similar to the one in Sportys, aviation supplies is what a lot of planes use. Just an inexpensive idea. Peltier coolers provide very little cooling versus DC current used. Mike Patterson >> >> >> >> Sent from my Samsung device >> >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: via Personal_Submersibles >> Date: 8/9/17 11:46 AM (GMT-05:00) >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 >> >> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... >> (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) >> 2. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... >> (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 08:03:07 -0500 >> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on >> viewport. I used Dove soap on the viewport interior prior to taking off >> but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the dive, this >> treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board. The other >> issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became soaked with >> sweat. As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation off after >> the two hour tow to the dive site. Action items: Have small bottle of >> Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives. >> >> Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers. I have quite a bit of >> battery capacity so this could work. Unfortunately, mounting on hull won't >> work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the hull so I >> don't have a cool surface to mount on. I do have a pair of plugged off >> ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to cooling water >> source if I installed a small pump on this circuit. Pushing this water >> through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on water cooled >> motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not humidity. At >> Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive was about >> 87F so this would not have helped all that much. A small DC AC system that >> controlled both temperature and humidity would be better. >> >> On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy with how >> this worked. I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4" SS tubing >> that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator >> (thanks Hugh) under the cover just aft of the pilot. I was not sure if a >> single regulator would work or if I would need one for each thruster but it >> looks like one was adequate. I have had two deep dives with the >> arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with >> water in the thrusters. >> >> Best Regards >> >> Cliff >> >> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> > Thanks Cliff, >> > I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e! >> > Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there! >> > After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier elements & >> > air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the >> > efficiency >> > of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by reversing >> > the polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements stuck to >> > the hull >> > with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what >> > batteries you >> > are using, but the new battery technologies on the way will make energy >> > expenditure less of an issue! >> > Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see >> > any >> > air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up too >> > much >> > when exhausting. >> > Cheers Alan >> > >> > >> > >> > Sent from my iPad >> > >> > On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> > >> > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta. The >> > first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3 >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw and the second is a night >> > dive in front of Doug's house https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI. >> > Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > Cliff >> > >> > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < >> > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> > >> >> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >> >> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >> >> 1-3). >> >> >> >> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >> >> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >> >> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >> >> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >> >> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >> >> >> >> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >> >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >> >> >> >> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >> >> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >> >> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >> >> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >> >> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >> >> tow line and helped with comms. >> >> >> >> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >> >> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >> >> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >> >> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >> >> >> >> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >> >> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >> >> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >> >> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >> >> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >> >> than I can remember last week. >> >> >> >> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >> >> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >> >> >> >> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >> >> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >> >> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >> >> >> >> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >> >> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >> >> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >> >> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >> >> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >> >> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >> >> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >> >> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >> >> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >> >> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >> >> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >> >> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >> >> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >> >> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >> >> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >> >> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >> >> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >> >> accomplishment with the mission. >> >> >> >> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >> >> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >> >> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >> >> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >> >> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >> >> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >> >> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >> >> sub to track straight). >> >> >> >> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >> >> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >> >> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >> >> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >> >> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >> >> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >> >> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >> >> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >> >> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 15:46:22 +0000 (UTC) >> From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... >> Message-ID: <1907666847.421009.1502293582178 at mail.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Hi Cliff, >> Congrats on your dives. Sub really looks great in those videos. >> With regards to an AC solution, one low tech method would be to blow air across ice in a small cooler. Water ice can be super cooled with Dry Ice the night before. Dry ice is about - 100 F and water ice cooled to this temperature should stay cold for quite some time. >> Greg C From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 9:05 AM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... >> >> Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on viewport.? I used Dove soap on the viewport interior?prior to taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board.? The other issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became soaked with sweat.? As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation off?after the two hour tow to the dive site.? Action items:? Have small bottle of Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives.? >> Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers.? I have quite a bit of battery capacity so this could work.? Unfortunately, mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a cool surface to mount on.? I do have a pair of plugged off ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to cooling water source if I installed a small pump on this circuit.? Pushing this water through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on?water cooled motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not?humidity.? ?At Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive was about 87F so this would not have helped all that much.? A small DC AC system that controlled both temperature and humidity would be better. >> On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy with how this worked.? I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator (thanks Hugh) ?under the cover just aft of the pilot.?I was not sure if a single regulator would work or if I would need one for each thruster but it looks like one was adequate.? I have had two deep dives with the arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water in the thrusters. >> Best Regards >> Cliff >> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Thanks Cliff,I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e!Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there!After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier elements &air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the efficiency?of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by reversingthe polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements stuck to the hull?with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what batteries youare using, but the new battery technologies on the way will make energyexpenditure less of an issue!Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see any?air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up too muchwhen exhausting.Cheers Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta.? The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3??https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw?and the second is a night dive in front of Doug's house??https://www.youtube. com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI.? Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. >> Regards >> Cliff >> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >> 1-3). >> >> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >> >> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >> >> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >> tow line and helped with comms. >> >> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >> >> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >> than I can remember last week. >> >> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >> >> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >> >> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >> accomplishment with the mission. >> >> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >> sub to track straight). >> >> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 >> ***************************************************** >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 20:14:57 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 10:14:57 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 In-Reply-To: <72DCB6AB-3610-4BFA-853A-69E833780486@yahoo.com> References: <2fi6mahfj5ijw82a4lodu025.1502303158266@email.android.com> <72DCB6AB-3610-4BFA-853A-69E833780486@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, Resistive heating being about as close as you can get to 100%, I would be sceptical about that. I've experimented with Peltier modules for gas cooling and they were quite disappointing in performance, although wonderfully simple in operation. Cheers, Steve On 10 Aug 2017 8:33 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Just did some Googling on the Peltier as a heater. > In an experiment I saw it was more efficient than resistive heating! > This depends to an extent on the ambient heat differential. > I would imagine you would need to attach them to the hull & surround them > with an insulating material to stop the metal of the hull radiating back > the cold or heat produced, & force it to transfer it all to the water. > Another bunny trail to investigate. > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 10/08/2017, at 9:18 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Mike, > the peltier is only 1/4 to 1/3 as efficient as a compressor system, but > Cliff > & I have very little spare room. They serve as heaters by reversing > polarity. > I am not sure of their efficiency as heaters compared with resistive coils; > probably poor! Cliff would have to cut a hole in his fibreglass outer & > dig back > the syntactic foam to the pressure hull to get cooling on the reverse side > of > the peltier or compressor air conditioning unit. Could look sexy if he put > some > shark gills in it for water ingress. > Cliff didn't have a cover on the dome, & that would let a lot of heat in. > We had a wet towel on Snoopy last time at Islamorada. > Have heard that people like Nuytco use a shore based air conditioner to > cool > the sub down prior to a dive; but I don't know how long that benefit would > last being towed out that distance. > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 10/08/2017, at 6:25 AM, peaceroom via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Reference,summer submarine cooling. A scaled down version of the small > cooler with ice and DC fan, similar to the one in Sportys, aviation > supplies is what a lot of planes use. Just an inexpensive idea. Peltier > coolers provide very little cooling versus DC current used. Mike Patterson > > > > Sent from my Samsung device > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 8/9/17 11:46 AM (GMT-05:00) > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 > > Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... > (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) > 2. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... > (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 08:03:07 -0500 > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on > viewport. I used Dove soap on the viewport interior prior to taking off > but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the dive, this > treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board. The other > issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became soaked with > sweat. As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation off after > the two hour tow to the dive site. Action items: Have small bottle of > Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives. > > Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers. I have quite a bit of > battery capacity so this could work. Unfortunately, mounting on hull won't > work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the hull so I > don't have a cool surface to mount on. I do have a pair of plugged off > ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to cooling water > source if I installed a small pump on this circuit. Pushing this water > through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on water cooled > motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not humidity. At > Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive was about > 87F so this would not have helped all that much. A small DC AC system that > controlled both temperature and humidity would be better. > > On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy with how > this worked. I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4" SS tubing > that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator > (thanks Hugh) under the cover just aft of the pilot. I was not sure if a > single regulator would work or if I would need one for each thruster but it > looks like one was adequate. I have had two deep dives with the > arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with > water in the thrusters. > > Best Regards > > Cliff > > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Thanks Cliff, > > I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e! > > Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there! > > After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier elements & > > air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the > > efficiency > > of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by reversing > > the polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements stuck to > > the hull > > with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what > > batteries you > > are using, but the new battery technologies on the way will make energy > > expenditure less of an issue! > > Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see > > any > > air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up too > > much > > when exhausting. > > Cheers Alan > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta. The > > first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3 > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw and the second is a night > > dive in front of Doug's house https://www.youtube.com/watch? > v=KDBw1ZOdKaI. > > Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. > > > > Regards > > > > Cliff > > > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > >> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day > >> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August > >> 1-3). > >> > >> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day > >> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate > >> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands > >> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time > >> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. > >> > >> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, > >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. > >> > >> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver > >> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this > >> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and > >> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted > >> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the > >> tow line and helped with comms. > >> > >> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. > >> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were > >> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think > >> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! > >> > >> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of > >> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for > >> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always > >> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like > >> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more > >> than I can remember last week. > >> > >> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever > >> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. > >> > >> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal > >> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting > >> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. > >> > >> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to > >> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We > >> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did > >> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about > >> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow > >> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that > >> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS > >> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the > >> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! > >> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did > >> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about > >> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, > >> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff > >> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 > >> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water > >> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think > >> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great > >> accomplishment with the mission. > >> > >> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow > >> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat > >> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so > >> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to > >> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel > >> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then > >> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and > >> sub to track straight). > >> > >> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves > >> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this > >> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, > >> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can > >> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow > >> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support > >> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of > >> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend > >> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: 20170809/ea2b1476/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 15:46:22 +0000 (UTC) > From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > Message-ID: <1907666847.421009.1502293582178 at mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Cliff, > Congrats on your dives. Sub really looks great in those videos. > With regards to an AC solution, one low tech method would be to blow air > across ice in a small cooler. Water ice can be super cooled with Dry Ice > the night before. Dry ice is about - 100 F and water ice cooled to this > temperature should stay cold for quite some time. > Greg C From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 9:05 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > > Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on > viewport.? I used Dove soap on the viewport interior?prior to taking off > but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the dive, this > treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board.? The other > issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became soaked with > sweat.? As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation off?after > the two hour tow to the dive site.? Action items:? Have small bottle of > Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives.? > Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers.? I have quite a bit of > battery capacity so this could work.? Unfortunately, mounting on hull won't > work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the hull so I > don't have a cool surface to mount on.? I do have a pair of plugged off > ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to cooling water > source if I installed a small pump on this circuit.? Pushing this water > through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on?water cooled > motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not?humidity.? ?At > Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive was about > 87F so this would not have helped all that much.? A small DC AC system that > controlled both temperature and humidity would be better. > On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy with how > this worked.? I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4" SS tubing > that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator > (thanks Hugh) ?under the cover just aft of the pilot.?I was not sure if a > single regulator would work or if I would need one for each thruster but it > looks like one was adequate.? I have had two deep dives with the > arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with > water in the thrusters. > Best Regards > Cliff > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks Cliff,I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the > entr?e!Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there!After you > mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier elements &air > conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the > efficiency?of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by > reversingthe polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements > stuck to the hull?with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not > sure what batteries youare using, but the new battery technologies on the > way will make energyexpenditure less of an issue!Do you have all 4 motors > exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see any?air coming out of the > motor seals so the pressure isn't building up too muchwhen > exhausting.Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta.? The > first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3?? > https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw?and the second is a night > dive in front of Doug's house??https://www.youtube. > com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI.? Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of > the Regatta. > Regards > Cliff > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day > sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August > 1-3). > > Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day > with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate > that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands > full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time > to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. > > List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, > River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. > > This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver > and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this > operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and > extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted > with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the > tow line and helped with comms. > > Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. > Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were > both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think > River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! > > Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of > the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for > the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always > willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like > to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more > than I can remember last week. > > Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever > kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. > > River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal > (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting > the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. > > Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to > tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We > were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did > suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about > 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow > line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that > we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS > and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the > bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! > His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did > it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about > an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, > testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff > surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 > / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water > flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think > we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great > accomplishment with the mission. > > A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow > equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat > REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so > much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to > be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel > and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then > jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and > sub to track straight). > > The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves > everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this > is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, > one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can > carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow > out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support > vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of > logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend > its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: 20170809/1374ba08/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 > ***************************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 20:45:10 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 20:45:10 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 29 Message-ID: No need to be skeptical about the heating performance of a peltier. If you calculated an efficiency using the normal math (Watts of heat out/ Watts of electric in) you would calculate that they are more than 100% efficient! Peltier elements behave the same as a heat pump, so you are utilizing high quality energy (electric) to move lower quality energy (heat) around. Since efficiency can't be above 100%, we call the previously calculated number the "Coefficient of Performance" and call the efficiency of such a device COP-100%. For a typical Peltier, (110 COP, or 10% efficient) 10 watts of electricity will move 1 watt of heat from one side to another. The 10 watts of electric have to go somewhere, so are converted into lower quality energy and given off as heat on the hot side, along with the heat moved from the cold side. I've been busy brushing up on my thermodynamics... -- -River J. Dolfi 412-997-2526 rdolfi7 at gmail.com rwd5301 at psu.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 21:04:44 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 01:04:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch boat References: <1145856335.824721.1502327084918.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1145856335.824721.1502327084918@mail.yahoo.com> I have been pondering what Alan pointed out, that the boat bounces while the sub sits relatively still. ?I have experienced this and it leaves you feeling completely powerless and rather defeated. ?The solution is quite simple in my case. ?I can cut my steel hull in half and make the front half submersible. ?The sunken part of the boat will behave exactly the same as the sub. ?The sub can drive over the submerged hull section and the crew (wife) can hit the big red surface button and up comes the sub and hull. ?This way I can keep the bow pointy and still have the sub on deck. ?I can have an anchor at the stern so the sub approaches upwind into the protection of the boat. ?? The idea of a submerging garage transporter for Cliff's ?R300 makes sense because the transporter will be smoother to land on than a heaving boat or bra or vertical support ?apparatus ;-)?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 21:09:09 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 13:09:09 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 In-Reply-To: References: <2fi6mahfj5ijw82a4lodu025.1502303158266@email.android.com> <72DCB6AB-3610-4BFA-853A-69E833780486@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <79F3CFD6-7818-467F-8802-4A2D2C06F071@yahoo.com> Hi Steve, ideally a normal air conditioner would be better for cooling, but you have to get rid of it's heat somehow. I am not sure how the expensive submersibles do it! Maybe there is a through hull to an external heat exchanger. They are also noisy, bulky & I could be wrong but I believe G.L. have issues with the gas they use! If the peltier was 25% as efficient as a compression unit, & needed 4 x the power, then that might mean having another battery to drive it. The bulk & expense of the battery may even out the cost & size comparison of the two options. This would be interesting to research! I saw a couple of articles that said the Peltier was up there in efficiency with resistive heating. They are used in climate control modules in both their heating & cooling functions, & I like this option for a submersible where you can go from one extreme of temperature to another! ( like Melbourne) Cheers Alan p.s. my daughter loves it in Melbourne she has been there 4 years now! Sent from my iPad > On 10/08/2017, at 12:14 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, > Resistive heating being about as close as you can get to 100%, I would be sceptical about that. I've experimented with Peltier modules for gas cooling and they were quite disappointing in performance, although wonderfully simple in operation. > > Cheers, > Steve > >> On 10 Aug 2017 8:33 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >> Just did some Googling on the Peltier as a heater. >> In an experiment I saw it was more efficient than resistive heating! >> This depends to an extent on the ambient heat differential. >> I would imagine you would need to attach them to the hull & surround them >> with an insulating material to stop the metal of the hull radiating back >> the cold or heat produced, & force it to transfer it all to the water. >> Another bunny trail to investigate. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 10/08/2017, at 9:18 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Mike, >>> the peltier is only 1/4 to 1/3 as efficient as a compressor system, but Cliff >>> & I have very little spare room. They serve as heaters by reversing polarity. >>> I am not sure of their efficiency as heaters compared with resistive coils; >>> probably poor! Cliff would have to cut a hole in his fibreglass outer & dig back >>> the syntactic foam to the pressure hull to get cooling on the reverse side of >>> the peltier or compressor air conditioning unit. Could look sexy if he put some >>> shark gills in it for water ingress. >>> Cliff didn't have a cover on the dome, & that would let a lot of heat in. >>> We had a wet towel on Snoopy last time at Islamorada. >>> Have heard that people like Nuytco use a shore based air conditioner to cool >>> the sub down prior to a dive; but I don't know how long that benefit would >>> last being towed out that distance. >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 10/08/2017, at 6:25 AM, peaceroom via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Reference,summer submarine cooling. A scaled down version of the small cooler with ice and DC fan, similar to the one in Sportys, aviation supplies is what a lot of planes use. Just an inexpensive idea. Peltier coolers provide very little cooling versus DC current used. Mike Patterson >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my Samsung device >>>> >>>> >>>> -------- Original message -------- >>>> From: via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Date: 8/9/17 11:46 AM (GMT-05:00) >>>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 >>>> >>>> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >>>> >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >>>> >>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>> than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >>>> >>>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>>> >>>> 1. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... >>>> (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) >>>> 2. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... >>>> (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 08:03:07 -0500 >>>> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... >>>> Message-ID: >>>> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>> >>>> Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on >>>> viewport. I used Dove soap on the viewport interior prior to taking off >>>> but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the dive, this >>>> treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board. The other >>>> issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became soaked with >>>> sweat. As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation off after >>>> the two hour tow to the dive site. Action items: Have small bottle of >>>> Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives. >>>> >>>> Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers. I have quite a bit of >>>> battery capacity so this could work. Unfortunately, mounting on hull won't >>>> work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the hull so I >>>> don't have a cool surface to mount on. I do have a pair of plugged off >>>> ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to cooling water >>>> source if I installed a small pump on this circuit. Pushing this water >>>> through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on water cooled >>>> motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not humidity. At >>>> Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive was about >>>> 87F so this would not have helped all that much. A small DC AC system that >>>> controlled both temperature and humidity would be better. >>>> >>>> On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy with how >>>> this worked. I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4" SS tubing >>>> that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator >>>> (thanks Hugh) under the cover just aft of the pilot. I was not sure if a >>>> single regulator would work or if I would need one for each thruster but it >>>> looks like one was adequate. I have had two deep dives with the >>>> arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with >>>> water in the thrusters. >>>> >>>> Best Regards >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> > Thanks Cliff, >>>> > I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e! >>>> > Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there! >>>> > After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier elements & >>>> > air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the >>>> > efficiency >>>> > of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by reversing >>>> > the polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements stuck to >>>> > the hull >>>> > with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what >>>> > batteries you >>>> > are using, but the new battery technologies on the way will make energy >>>> > expenditure less of an issue! >>>> > Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see >>>> > any >>>> > air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up too >>>> > much >>>> > when exhausting. >>>> > Cheers Alan >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Sent from my iPad >>>> > >>>> > On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta. The >>>> > first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3 >>>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw and the second is a night >>>> > dive in front of Doug's house https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI. >>>> > Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. >>>> > >>>> > Regards >>>> > >>>> > Cliff >>>> > >>>> > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >>>> >> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >>>> >> 1-3). >>>> >> >>>> >> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>>> >> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >>>> >> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>>> >> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>>> >> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >>>> >> >>>> >> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>>> >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>>> >> >>>> >> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >>>> >> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>>> >> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >>>> >> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >>>> >> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>>> >> tow line and helped with comms. >>>> >> >>>> >> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>>> >> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>>> >> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >>>> >> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>>> >> >>>> >> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>>> >> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >>>> >> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>>> >> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>>> >> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >>>> >> than I can remember last week. >>>> >> >>>> >> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >>>> >> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>>> >> >>>> >> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >>>> >> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>>> >> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>>> >> >>>> >> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >>>> >> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>>> >> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >>>> >> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >>>> >> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >>>> >> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >>>> >> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >>>> >> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>>> >> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >>>> >> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >>>> >> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >>>> >> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>>> >> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>>> >> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >>>> >> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>>> >> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >>>> >> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>>> >> accomplishment with the mission. >>>> >> >>>> >> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >>>> >> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >>>> >> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>>> >> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >>>> >> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >>>> >> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >>>> >> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >>>> >> sub to track straight). >>>> >> >>>> >> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >>>> >> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >>>> >> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>>> >> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >>>> >> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >>>> >> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>>> >> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>>> >> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >>>> >> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 2 >>>> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 15:46:22 +0000 (UTC) >>>> From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... >>>> Message-ID: <1907666847.421009.1502293582178 at mail.yahoo.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>> >>>> Hi Cliff, >>>> Congrats on your dives. Sub really looks great in those videos. >>>> With regards to an AC solution, one low tech method would be to blow air across ice in a small cooler. Water ice can be super cooled with Dry Ice the night before. Dry ice is about - 100 F and water ice cooled to this temperature should stay cold for quite some time. >>>> Greg C From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 9:05 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... >>>> >>>> Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on viewport.? I used Dove soap on the viewport interior?prior to taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board.? The other issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became soaked with sweat.? As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation off?after the two hour tow to the dive site.? Action items:? Have small bottle of Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives.? >>>> Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers.? I have quite a bit of battery capacity so this could work.? Unfortunately, mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a cool surface to mount on.? I do have a pair of plugged off ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to cooling water source if I installed a small pump on this circuit.? Pushing this water through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on?water cooled motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not?humidity.? ?At Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive was about 87F so this would not have helped all that much.? A small DC AC system that controlled both temperature and humidity would be better. >>>> On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy with how this worked.? I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator (thanks Hugh) ?under the cover just aft of the pilot.?I was not sure if a single regulator would work or if I would need one for each thruster but it looks like one was adequate.? I have had two deep dives with the arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water in the thrusters. >>>> Best Regards >>>> Cliff >>>> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks Cliff,I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e!Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there!After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier elements &air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the efficiency?of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by reversingthe polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements stuck to the hull?with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what batteries youare using, but the new battery technologies on the way will make energyexpenditure less of an issue!Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see any?air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up too muchwhen exhausting.Cheers Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta.? The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3??https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw?and the second is a night dive in front of Doug's house??https://www.youtube. com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI.? Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. >>>> Regards >>>> Cliff >>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >>>> 1-3). >>>> >>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >>>> >>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>>> >>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>>> tow line and helped with comms. >>>> >>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>>> >>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >>>> than I can remember last week. >>>> >>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>>> >>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>>> >>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>>> accomplishment with the mission. >>>> >>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >>>> sub to track straight). >>>> >>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | >>>> >>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Subject: Digest Footer >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 >>>> ***************************************************** >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 21:19:47 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 09:19:47 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 In-Reply-To: References: <2fi6mahfj5ijw82a4lodu025.1502303158266@email.android.com> <72DCB6AB-3610-4BFA-853A-69E833780486@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Peltier modules ARE more efficient than resistive heaters because they are true heat pumps - they don't supply (all) the heat that they emit on the hot side. In fact, they are more efficient as heaters than as coolers. That said, using them is a lot more difficult than using resistors, because they have to be connected on one side to a heat source and on the other to the area you want heated. In a sub, that sounds like you need another penetration in your pressure hull, which I would not be interested in if it were mine. Marc On 8/10/2017 8:14 AM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Alan, > Resistive heating being about as close as you can get to 100%, I would > be sceptical about that. I've experimented with Peltier modules for gas > cooling and they were quite disappointing in performance, although > wonderfully simple in operation. > > Cheers, > Steve > > On 10 Aug 2017 8:33 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" > > wrote: > > Just did some Googling on the Peltier as a heater. > In an experiment I saw it was more efficient than resistive heating! > This depends to an extent on the ambient heat differential. > I would imagine you would need to attach them to the hull & surround > them > with an insulating material to stop the metal of the hull radiating back > the cold or heat produced, & force it to transfer it all to the water. > Another bunny trail to investigate. > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 10/08/2017, at 9:18 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > >> Mike, >> the peltier is only 1/4 to 1/3 as efficient as a compressor >> system, but Cliff >> & I have very little spare room. They serve as heaters by >> reversing polarity. >> I am not sure of their efficiency as heaters compared with >> resistive coils; >> probably poor! Cliff would have to cut a hole in his fibreglass >> outer & dig back >> the syntactic foam to the pressure hull to get cooling on the >> reverse side of >> the peltier or compressor air conditioning unit. Could look sexy >> if he put some >> shark gills in it for water ingress. >> Cliff didn't have a cover on the dome, & that would let a lot of >> heat in. >> We had a wet towel on Snoopy last time at Islamorada. >> Have heard that people like Nuytco use a shore based air >> conditioner to cool >> the sub down prior to a dive; but I don't know how long that >> benefit would >> last being towed out that distance. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 10/08/2017, at 6:25 AM, peaceroom via Personal_Submersibles >> > > wrote: >> >>> Reference,summer submarine cooling. A scaled down version of the >>> small cooler with ice and DC fan, similar to the one in Sportys, >>> aviation supplies is what a lot of planes use. Just an >>> inexpensive idea. Peltier coolers provide very little cooling >>> versus DC current used. Mike Patterson >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my Samsung device >>> >>> >>> -------- Original message -------- >>> From: via Personal_Submersibles >> > >>> Date: 8/9/17 11:46 AM (GMT-05:00) >>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 >>> >>> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >>> >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >>> >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... >>> (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) >>> 2. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... >>> (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 08:03:07 -0500 >>> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>> >> > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> >> > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... >>> Message-ID: >>> >> > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>> >>> Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on >>> viewport. I used Dove soap on the viewport interior prior to >>> taking off >>> but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the >>> dive, this >>> treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board. >>> The other >>> issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became >>> soaked with >>> sweat. As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation >>> off after >>> the two hour tow to the dive site. Action items: Have small >>> bottle of >>> Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives. >>> >>> Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers. I have quite a >>> bit of >>> battery capacity so this could work. Unfortunately, mounting on >>> hull won't >>> work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the >>> hull so I >>> don't have a cool surface to mount on. I do have a pair of >>> plugged off >>> ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to >>> cooling water >>> source if I installed a small pump on this circuit. Pushing this >>> water >>> through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on water cooled >>> motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not >>> humidity. At >>> Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive >>> was about >>> 87F so this would not have helped all that much. A small DC AC >>> system that >>> controlled both temperature and humidity would be better. >>> >>> On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy >>> with how >>> this worked. I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4" >>> SS tubing >>> that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator >>> (thanks Hugh) under the cover just aft of the pilot. I was not >>> sure if a >>> single regulator would work or if I would need one for each >>> thruster but it >>> looks like one was adequate. I have had two deep dives with the >>> arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no >>> issues with >>> water in the thrusters. >>> >>> Best Regards >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> > wrote: >>> >>> > Thanks Cliff, >>> > I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e! >>> > Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there! >>> > After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier >>> elements & >>> > air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the >>> > efficiency >>> > of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by >>> reversing >>> > the polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier >>> elements stuck to >>> > the hull >>> > with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what >>> > batteries you >>> > are using, but the new battery technologies on the way will >>> make energy >>> > expenditure less of an issue! >>> > Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? >>> Couldn't see >>> > any >>> > air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't >>> building up too >>> > much >>> > when exhausting. >>> > Cheers Alan >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Sent from my iPad >>> > >>> > On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >>> > personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs >>> Regatta. The >>> > first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3 >>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw >>> and the second is a >>> night >>> > dive in front of Doug's house >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI >>> . >>> > Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. >>> > >>> > Regards >>> > >>> > Cliff >>> > >>> > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via >>> Personal_Submersibles < >>> > personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> >> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on >>> the 4-day >>> >> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, >>> August >>> >> 1-3). >>> >> >>> >> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / >>> setup day >>> >> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was >>> unfortunate >>> >> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>> >> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had >>> enough time >>> >> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic >>> diving. >>> >> >>> >> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>> >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>> >> >>> >> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) >>> saturation diver >>> >> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>> >> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his >>> knowledge and >>> >> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have >>> chatted >>> >> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan >>> manned the >>> >> tow line and helped with comms. >>> >> >>> >> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>> >> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>> >> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I >>> think >>> >> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>> >> >>> >> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is >>> one of >>> >> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a >>> gift for >>> >> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>> >> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone >>> who'd like >>> >> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I >>> learned more >>> >> than I can remember last week. >>> >> >>> >> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing >>> whatever >>> >> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>> >> >>> >> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the >>> canal >>> >> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was >>> getting >>> >> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>> >> >>> >> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was >>> able to >>> >> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>> >> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, >>> though we did >>> >> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a >>> spot about >>> >> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point >>> the tow >>> >> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we >>> decided that >>> >> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine >>> radio to OTS >>> >> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>> >> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the >>> Whaler! >>> >> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but >>> wow did >>> >> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff >>> spent about >>> >> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>> >> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the >>> time Cliff >>> >> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood >>> at 4.5 >>> >> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>> >> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning >>> I think >>> >> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>> >> accomplishment with the mission. >>> >> >>> >> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need >>> better tow >>> >> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). >>> Our boat >>> >> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves >>> isn't so >>> >> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line >>> needs to >>> >> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow >>> vessel >>> >> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking >>> and then >>> >> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for >>> boat and >>> >> sub to track straight). >>> >> >>> >> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the >>> waves >>> >> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation >>> like this >>> >> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At >>> dinner, >>> >> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel >>> that can >>> >> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time >>> consuming tow >>> >> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>> >> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>> >> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan >>> will lend >>> >> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> >> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> > >>> > >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> >> > >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 15:46:22 +0000 (UTC) >>> From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles >>> >> > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> >> > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... >>> Message-ID: <1907666847.421009.1502293582178 at mail.yahoo.com >>> > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>> >>> Hi Cliff, >>> Congrats on your dives. Sub really looks great in those videos. >>> With regards to an AC solution, one low tech method would be to >>> blow air across ice in a small cooler. Water ice can be super >>> cooled with Dry Ice the night before. Dry ice is about - 100 F >>> and water ice cooled to this temperature should stay cold for >>> quite some time. >>> Greg C From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>> >> > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> >> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 9:05 AM >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... >>> >>> Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on >>> viewport.? I used Dove soap on the viewport interior?prior to >>> taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and duration >>> of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did not have more >>> soap on board.? The other issue is I only had two hand towels on >>> board and these became soaked with sweat.? As such, they were not >>> good for cleaning the condensation off?after the two hour tow to >>> the dive site.? Action items:? Have small bottle of Dove soap on >>> board and more towels for future long duration dives.? >>> Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers.? I have quite a >>> bit of battery capacity so this could work.? Unfortunately, >>> mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic foam under >>> the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a cool surface to >>> mount on.? I do have a pair of plugged off ports on the bottom of >>> the boat that would give me access to cooling water source if I >>> installed a small pump on this circuit.? Pushing this water >>> through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on?water cooled >>> motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but >>> not?humidity.? ?At Islamorada, the average water temperature at >>> the time of the dive was about 87F so this would not have helped >>> all that much.? A small DC AC system that controlled both >>> temperature and humidity would be better. >>> On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy >>> with how this worked.? I have all four of my thrusters connected >>> to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold into a single pressure >>> reducing/relieving regulator (thanks Hugh) ?under the cover just >>> aft of the pilot.?I was not sure if a single regulator would work >>> or if I would need one for each thruster but it looks like one >>> was adequate.? I have had two deep dives with the arrangement, >>> one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water >>> in the thrusters. >>> Best Regards >>> Cliff >>> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Cliff,I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this >>> is the entr?e!Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down >>> there!After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier >>> elements &air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have >>> only 25% the efficiency?of a normal compression cycle system, but >>> are really small & by reversingthe polarity can act as heaters. A >>> few of those peltier elements stuck to the hull?with air >>> channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what >>> batteries youare using, but the new battery technologies on the >>> way will make energyexpenditure less of an issue!Do you have all >>> 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see any?air >>> coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up >>> too muchwhen exhausting.Cheers Alan >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs >>> Regatta.? The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug >>> 3??https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw?and the second is >>> a night dive in front of Doug's house??https://www.youtube. >>> com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI.? Alec is working on a more comprehensive >>> video of the Regatta. >>> Regards >>> Cliff >>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the >>> 4-day >>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >>> 1-3). >>> >>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was >>> unfortunate >>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic >>> diving. >>> >>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>> >>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation >>> diver >>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have >>> chatted >>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>> tow line and helped with comms. >>> >>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>> >>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned >>> more >>> than I can remember last week. >>> >>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>> >>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>> >>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though >>> we did >>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot >>> about >>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point >>> the tow >>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio >>> to OTS >>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent >>> about >>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I >>> think >>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>> accomplishment with the mission. >>> >>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >>> sub to track straight). >>> >>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like >>> this >>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or >>> g >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> >> > >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Subject: Digest Footer >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 >>> ***************************************************** >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 21:23:37 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 09:23:37 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 In-Reply-To: References: <2fi6mahfj5ijw82a4lodu025.1502303158266@email.android.com> Message-ID: <0d19c20f-5504-c8f1-b79e-999212620043@archivale.com> Actually more efficient as heaters than as coolers, because you also get the waste heat from the Peltier module itself. Marc On 8/10/2017 5:18 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I am not sure of their efficiency as heaters compared with resistive coils; > probably poor! -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 21:33:39 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 13:33:39 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 In-Reply-To: References: <2fi6mahfj5ijw82a4lodu025.1502303158266@email.android.com> <72DCB6AB-3610-4BFA-853A-69E833780486@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Mark, you don't need any through hulls, just glue them on to your hull with a heat transfer compound. The heat will go through the hull to the surrounding water but will also radiate laterally through the metal; hence my suggestion to insulate around the area a bit so that the cold or heat can't come back in to the hull. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 10/08/2017, at 1:19 PM, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Peltier modules ARE more efficient than resistive heaters because they are true heat pumps - they don't supply (all) the heat that they emit on the hot side. In fact, they are more efficient as heaters than as coolers. That said, using them is a lot more difficult than using resistors, because they have to be connected on one side to a heat source and on the other to the area you want heated. In a sub, that sounds like you need another penetration in your pressure hull, which I would not be interested in if it were mine. > > Marc > >> On 8/10/2017 8:14 AM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hi Alan, >> Resistive heating being about as close as you can get to 100%, I would be sceptical about that. I've experimented with Peltier modules for gas cooling and they were quite disappointing in performance, although wonderfully simple in operation. >> Cheers, >> Steve >> On 10 Aug 2017 8:33 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" > wrote: >> Just did some Googling on the Peltier as a heater. >> In an experiment I saw it was more efficient than resistive heating! >> This depends to an extent on the ambient heat differential. >> I would imagine you would need to attach them to the hull & surround >> them >> with an insulating material to stop the metal of the hull radiating back >> the cold or heat produced, & force it to transfer it all to the water. >> Another bunny trail to investigate. >> Cheers Alan >> Sent from my iPad >> On 10/08/2017, at 9:18 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> > > wrote: >>> Mike, >>> the peltier is only 1/4 to 1/3 as efficient as a compressor >>> system, but Cliff >>> & I have very little spare room. They serve as heaters by >>> reversing polarity. >>> I am not sure of their efficiency as heaters compared with >>> resistive coils; >>> probably poor! Cliff would have to cut a hole in his fibreglass >>> outer & dig back >>> the syntactic foam to the pressure hull to get cooling on the >>> reverse side of >>> the peltier or compressor air conditioning unit. Could look sexy >>> if he put some >>> shark gills in it for water ingress. >>> Cliff didn't have a cover on the dome, & that would let a lot of >>> heat in. >>> We had a wet towel on Snoopy last time at Islamorada. >>> Have heard that people like Nuytco use a shore based air >>> conditioner to cool >>> the sub down prior to a dive; but I don't know how long that >>> benefit would >>> last being towed out that distance. >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 10/08/2017, at 6:25 AM, peaceroom via Personal_Submersibles >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>>> Reference,summer submarine cooling. A scaled down version of the >>>> small cooler with ice and DC fan, similar to the one in Sportys, >>>> aviation supplies is what a lot of planes use. Just an >>>> inexpensive idea. Peltier coolers provide very little cooling >>>> versus DC current used. Mike Patterson >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my Samsung device >>>> >>>> >>>> -------- Original message -------- >>>> From: via Personal_Submersibles >>> > >>>> Date: 8/9/17 11:46 AM (GMT-05:00) >>>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>>> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 >>>> >>>> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>>> >>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >>>> >>>> >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >>>> >>>> >>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>> than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >>>> >>>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>>> >>>> 1. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... >>>> (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) >>>> 2. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... >>>> (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 08:03:07 -0500 >>>> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>> > >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>> > >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... >>>> Message-ID: >>>> >>> > >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>> >>>> Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on >>>> viewport. I used Dove soap on the viewport interior prior to >>>> taking off >>>> but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the >>>> dive, this >>>> treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board. The other >>>> issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became >>>> soaked with >>>> sweat. As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation >>>> off after >>>> the two hour tow to the dive site. Action items: Have small >>>> bottle of >>>> Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives. >>>> >>>> Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers. I have quite a >>>> bit of >>>> battery capacity so this could work. Unfortunately, mounting on >>>> hull won't >>>> work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the >>>> hull so I >>>> don't have a cool surface to mount on. I do have a pair of >>>> plugged off >>>> ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to >>>> cooling water >>>> source if I installed a small pump on this circuit. Pushing this >>>> water >>>> through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on water cooled >>>> motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not >>>> humidity. At >>>> Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive >>>> was about >>>> 87F so this would not have helped all that much. A small DC AC >>>> system that >>>> controlled both temperature and humidity would be better. >>>> >>>> On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy >>>> with how >>>> this worked. I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4" >>>> SS tubing >>>> that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator >>>> (thanks Hugh) under the cover just aft of the pilot. I was not >>>> sure if a >>>> single regulator would work or if I would need one for each >>>> thruster but it >>>> looks like one was adequate. I have had two deep dives with the >>>> arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no >>>> issues with >>>> water in the thrusters. >>>> >>>> Best Regards >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> > Thanks Cliff, >>>> > I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e! >>>> > Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there! >>>> > After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier >>>> elements & >>>> > air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the >>>> > efficiency >>>> > of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by >>>> reversing >>>> > the polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier >>>> elements stuck to >>>> > the hull >>>> > with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what >>>> > batteries you >>>> > are using, but the new battery technologies on the way will >>>> make energy >>>> > expenditure less of an issue! >>>> > Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? >>>> Couldn't see >>>> > any >>>> > air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't >>>> building up too >>>> > much >>>> > when exhausting. >>>> > Cheers Alan >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Sent from my iPad >>>> > >>>> > On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> > personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>> > wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs >>>> Regatta. The >>>> > first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3 >>>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw >>>> and the second is a >>>> night >>>> > dive in front of Doug's house >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI >>>> . >>>> > Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. >>>> > >>>> > Regards >>>> > >>>> > Cliff >>>> > >>>> > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via >>>> Personal_Submersibles < >>>> > personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>> > wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on >>>> the 4-day >>>> >> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, >>>> August >>>> >> 1-3). >>>> >> >>>> >> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / >>>> setup day >>>> >> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was >>>> unfortunate >>>> >> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>>> >> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had >>>> enough time >>>> >> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic >>>> diving. >>>> >> >>>> >> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>>> >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>>> >> >>>> >> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) >>>> saturation diver >>>> >> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>>> >> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his >>>> knowledge and >>>> >> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have >>>> chatted >>>> >> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan >>>> manned the >>>> >> tow line and helped with comms. >>>> >> >>>> >> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>>> >> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>>> >> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I >>>> think >>>> >> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>>> >> >>>> >> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is >>>> one of >>>> >> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a >>>> gift for >>>> >> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>>> >> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone >>>> who'd like >>>> >> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I >>>> learned more >>>> >> than I can remember last week. >>>> >> >>>> >> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing >>>> whatever >>>> >> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>>> >> >>>> >> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the >>>> canal >>>> >> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was >>>> getting >>>> >> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>>> >> >>>> >> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was >>>> able to >>>> >> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>>> >> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, >>>> though we did >>>> >> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a >>>> spot about >>>> >> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point >>>> the tow >>>> >> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we >>>> decided that >>>> >> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine >>>> radio to OTS >>>> >> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>>> >> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the >>>> Whaler! >>>> >> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but >>>> wow did >>>> >> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff >>>> spent about >>>> >> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>>> >> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the >>>> time Cliff >>>> >> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood >>>> at 4.5 >>>> >> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>>> >> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning >>>> I think >>>> >> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>>> >> accomplishment with the mission. >>>> >> >>>> >> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need >>>> better tow >>>> >> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). >>>> Our boat >>>> >> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves >>>> isn't so >>>> >> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line >>>> needs to >>>> >> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow >>>> vessel >>>> >> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking >>>> and then >>>> >> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for >>>> boat and >>>> >> sub to track straight). >>>> >> >>>> >> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the >>>> waves >>>> >> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation >>>> like this >>>> >> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At >>>> dinner, >>>> >> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel >>>> that can >>>> >> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time >>>> consuming tow >>>> >> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>>> >> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>>> >> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan >>>> will lend >>>> >> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>>> >> >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> >>> > >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 2 >>>> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 15:46:22 +0000 (UTC) >>>> From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>> > >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>> > >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... >>>> Message-ID: <1907666847.421009.1502293582178 at mail.yahoo.com >>>> > >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>> >>>> Hi Cliff, >>>> Congrats on your dives. Sub really looks great in those videos. >>>> With regards to an AC solution, one low tech method would be to >>>> blow air across ice in a small cooler. Water ice can be super >>>> cooled with Dry Ice the night before. Dry ice is about - 100 F >>>> and water ice cooled to this temperature should stay cold for >>>> quite some time. >>>> Greg C From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>> > >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>> > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 9:05 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... >>>> >>>> Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on >>>> viewport.? I used Dove soap on the viewport interior?prior to >>>> taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and duration >>>> of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did not have more >>>> soap on board.? The other issue is I only had two hand towels on >>>> board and these became soaked with sweat.? As such, they were not >>>> good for cleaning the condensation off?after the two hour tow to >>>> the dive site.? Action items:? Have small bottle of Dove soap on >>>> board and more towels for future long duration dives.? >>>> Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers.? I have quite a >>>> bit of battery capacity so this could work.? Unfortunately, >>>> mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic foam under >>>> the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a cool surface to >>>> mount on.? I do have a pair of plugged off ports on the bottom of >>>> the boat that would give me access to cooling water source if I >>>> installed a small pump on this circuit.? Pushing this water >>>> through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on?water cooled >>>> motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but >>>> not?humidity.? ?At Islamorada, the average water temperature at >>>> the time of the dive was about 87F so this would not have helped >>>> all that much.? A small DC AC system that controlled both >>>> temperature and humidity would be better. >>>> On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy >>>> with how this worked.? I have all four of my thrusters connected >>>> to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold into a single pressure >>>> reducing/relieving regulator (thanks Hugh) ?under the cover just >>>> aft of the pilot.?I was not sure if a single regulator would work >>>> or if I would need one for each thruster but it looks like one >>>> was adequate.? I have had two deep dives with the arrangement, >>>> one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water >>>> in the thrusters. >>>> Best Regards >>>> Cliff >>>> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks Cliff,I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this >>>> is the entr?e!Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down >>>> there!After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier >>>> elements &air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have >>>> only 25% the efficiency?of a normal compression cycle system, but >>>> are really small & by reversingthe polarity can act as heaters. A >>>> few of those peltier elements stuck to the hull?with air >>>> channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what >>>> batteries youare using, but the new battery technologies on the >>>> way will make energyexpenditure less of an issue!Do you have all >>>> 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see any?air >>>> coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up >>>> too muchwhen exhausting.Cheers Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs >>>> Regatta.? The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug >>>> 3??https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw?and the second is >>>> a night dive in front of Doug's house??https://www.youtube. >>>> com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI.? Alec is working on a more comprehensive >>>> video of the Regatta. >>>> Regards >>>> Cliff >>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the >>>> 4-day >>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >>>> 1-3). >>>> >>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was >>>> unfortunate >>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic >>>> diving. >>>> >>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>>> >>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation >>>> diver >>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have >>>> chatted >>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>>> tow line and helped with comms. >>>> >>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>>> >>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned >>>> more >>>> than I can remember last week. >>>> >>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>>> >>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>>> >>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though >>>> we did >>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot >>>> about >>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point >>>> the tow >>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio >>>> to OTS >>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent >>>> about >>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I >>>> think >>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>>> accomplishment with the mission. >>>> >>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >>>> sub to track straight). >>>> >>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like >>>> this >>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or >>>> g >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | >>>> >>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> >>> > >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Subject: Digest Footer >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 >>>> ***************************************************** >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -- > Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog > Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog > Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 > Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc > Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 21:45:13 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 01:45:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K350 rear thruster disassemble In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1950759304.1011795.1502329513510@mail.yahoo.com> Sorry Brian, it's already spoken for. Jon On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 6:29 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, You still have the rear motor and housing from your K600? Want to unload it?? :-) Get Outlook for Android _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 22:00:21 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 12:00:21 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 In-Reply-To: References: <2fi6mahfj5ijw82a4lodu025.1502303158266@email.android.com> <72DCB6AB-3610-4BFA-853A-69E833780486@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Wow ok - interested to have peltiers explained like that. Yes Alan, Melbourne is a great place - sadly no submersibles though... On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Mark, > you don't need any through hulls, just glue them on to your hull with > a heat transfer compound. The heat will go through the hull to the > surrounding > water but will also radiate laterally through the metal; hence my > suggestion > to insulate around the area a bit so that the cold or heat can't come back > in to > the hull. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 10/08/2017, at 1:19 PM, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Peltier modules ARE more efficient than resistive heaters because they > are true heat pumps - they don't supply (all) the heat that they emit on > the hot side. In fact, they are more efficient as heaters than as coolers. > That said, using them is a lot more difficult than using resistors, because > they have to be connected on one side to a heat source and on the other to > the area you want heated. In a sub, that sounds like you need another > penetration in your pressure hull, which I would not be interested in if it > were mine. > > > > Marc > > > >> On 8/10/2017 8:14 AM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Hi Alan, > >> Resistive heating being about as close as you can get to 100%, I would > be sceptical about that. I've experimented with Peltier modules for gas > cooling and they were quite disappointing in performance, although > wonderfully simple in operation. > >> Cheers, > >> Steve > >> On 10 Aug 2017 8:33 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > >> Just did some Googling on the Peltier as a heater. > >> In an experiment I saw it was more efficient than resistive heating! > >> This depends to an extent on the ambient heat differential. > >> I would imagine you would need to attach them to the hull & surround > >> them > >> with an insulating material to stop the metal of the hull radiating > back > >> the cold or heat produced, & force it to transfer it all to the > water. > >> Another bunny trail to investigate. > >> Cheers Alan > >> Sent from my iPad > >> On 10/08/2017, at 9:18 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > >> >> > wrote: > >>> Mike, > >>> the peltier is only 1/4 to 1/3 as efficient as a compressor > >>> system, but Cliff > >>> & I have very little spare room. They serve as heaters by > >>> reversing polarity. > >>> I am not sure of their efficiency as heaters compared with > >>> resistive coils; > >>> probably poor! Cliff would have to cut a hole in his fibreglass > >>> outer & dig back > >>> the syntactic foam to the pressure hull to get cooling on the > >>> reverse side of > >>> the peltier or compressor air conditioning unit. Could look sexy > >>> if he put some > >>> shark gills in it for water ingress. > >>> Cliff didn't have a cover on the dome, & that would let a lot of > >>> heat in. > >>> We had a wet towel on Snoopy last time at Islamorada. > >>> Have heard that people like Nuytco use a shore based air > >>> conditioner to cool > >>> the sub down prior to a dive; but I don't know how long that > >>> benefit would > >>> last being towed out that distance. > >>> Cheers Alan > >>> > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPad > >>> > >>> On 10/08/2017, at 6:25 AM, peaceroom via Personal_Submersibles > >>> >>> > wrote: > >>> > >>>> Reference,summer submarine cooling. A scaled down version of the > >>>> small cooler with ice and DC fan, similar to the one in Sportys, > >>>> aviation supplies is what a lot of planes use. Just an > >>>> inexpensive idea. Peltier coolers provide very little cooling > >>>> versus DC current used. Mike Patterson > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Sent from my Samsung device > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -------- Original message -------- > >>>> From: via Personal_Submersibles >>>> > > >>>> Date: 8/9/17 11:46 AM (GMT-05:00) > >>>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > >>>> > >>>> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 > >>>> > >>>> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to > >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>> > >>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >>>> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at > >>>> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >>>> than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Today's Topics: > >>>> > >>>> 1. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... > >>>> (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) > >>>> 2. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... > >>>> (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > >>>> > >>>> Message: 1 > >>>> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 08:03:07 -0500 > >>>> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > >>>> >>>> > > >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>>> >>>> > > >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > >>>> Message-ID: > >>>> mail.gmail.com > >>>> Q9cg at mail.gmail.com>> > >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > >>>> > >>>> Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on > >>>> viewport. I used Dove soap on the viewport interior prior to > >>>> taking off > >>>> but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the > >>>> dive, this > >>>> treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board. > The other > >>>> issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became > >>>> soaked with > >>>> sweat. As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation > >>>> off after > >>>> the two hour tow to the dive site. Action items: Have small > >>>> bottle of > >>>> Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives. > >>>> > >>>> Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers. I have quite a > >>>> bit of > >>>> battery capacity so this could work. Unfortunately, mounting on > >>>> hull won't > >>>> work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the > >>>> hull so I > >>>> don't have a cool surface to mount on. I do have a pair of > >>>> plugged off > >>>> ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to > >>>> cooling water > >>>> source if I installed a small pump on this circuit. Pushing this > >>>> water > >>>> through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on water cooled > >>>> motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not > >>>> humidity. At > >>>> Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive > >>>> was about > >>>> 87F so this would not have helped all that much. A small DC AC > >>>> system that > >>>> controlled both temperature and humidity would be better. > >>>> > >>>> On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy > >>>> with how > >>>> this worked. I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4" > >>>> SS tubing > >>>> that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving > regulator > >>>> (thanks Hugh) under the cover just aft of the pilot. I was not > >>>> sure if a > >>>> single regulator would work or if I would need one for each > >>>> thruster but it > >>>> looks like one was adequate. I have had two deep dives with the > >>>> arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no > >>>> issues with > >>>> water in the thrusters. > >>>> > >>>> Best Regards > >>>> > >>>> Cliff > >>>> > >>>> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org > >>>> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > Thanks Cliff, > >>>> > I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the > entr?e! > >>>> > Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there! > >>>> > After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier > >>>> elements & > >>>> > air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% > the > >>>> > efficiency > >>>> > of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by > >>>> reversing > >>>> > the polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier > >>>> elements stuck to > >>>> > the hull > >>>> > with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure > what > >>>> > batteries you > >>>> > are using, but the new battery technologies on the way will > >>>> make energy > >>>> > expenditure less of an issue! > >>>> > Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? > >>>> Couldn't see > >>>> > any > >>>> > air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't > >>>> building up too > >>>> > much > >>>> > when exhausting. > >>>> > Cheers Alan > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > Sent from my iPad > >>>> > > >>>> > On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > >>>> > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > >>>> > wrote: > >>>> > > >>>> > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs > >>>> Regatta. The > >>>> > first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3 > >>>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw > >>>> and the second is a > >>>> night > >>>> > dive in front of Doug's house > >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI > >>>> . > >>>> > Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. > >>>> > > >>>> > Regards > >>>> > > >>>> > Cliff > >>>> > > >>>> > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via > >>>> Personal_Submersibles < > >>>> > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > >>>> > wrote: > >>>> > > >>>> >> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on > >>>> the 4-day > >>>> >> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, > >>>> August > >>>> >> 1-3). > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / > >>>> setup day > >>>> >> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was > >>>> unfortunate > >>>> >> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our > hands > >>>> >> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had > >>>> enough time > >>>> >> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic > >>>> diving. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick > Maxwell, > >>>> >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) > >>>> saturation diver > >>>> >> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on > this > >>>> >> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his > >>>> knowledge and > >>>> >> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have > >>>> chatted > >>>> >> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan > >>>> manned the > >>>> >> tow line and helped with comms. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. > >>>> >> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they > were > >>>> >> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I > >>>> think > >>>> >> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is > >>>> one of > >>>> >> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a > >>>> gift for > >>>> >> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always > >>>> >> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone > >>>> who'd like > >>>> >> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I > >>>> learned more > >>>> >> than I can remember last week. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing > >>>> whatever > >>>> >> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the > >>>> canal > >>>> >> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was > >>>> getting > >>>> >> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was > >>>> able to > >>>> >> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). > We > >>>> >> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, > >>>> though we did > >>>> >> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a > >>>> spot about > >>>> >> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point > >>>> the tow > >>>> >> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we > >>>> decided that > >>>> >> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine > >>>> radio to OTS > >>>> >> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared > the > >>>> >> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the > >>>> Whaler! > >>>> >> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but > >>>> wow did > >>>> >> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff > >>>> spent about > >>>> >> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering > about, > >>>> >> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the > >>>> time Cliff > >>>> >> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood > >>>> at 4.5 > >>>> >> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the > water > >>>> >> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning > >>>> I think > >>>> >> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great > >>>> >> accomplishment with the mission. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need > >>>> better tow > >>>> >> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). > >>>> Our boat > >>>> >> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves > >>>> isn't so > >>>> >> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line > >>>> needs to > >>>> >> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow > >>>> vessel > >>>> >> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking > >>>> and then > >>>> >> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for > >>>> boat and > >>>> >> sub to track straight). > >>>> >> > >>>> >> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the > >>>> waves > >>>> >> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation > >>>> like this > >>>> >> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At > >>>> dinner, > >>>> >> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel > >>>> that can > >>>> >> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time > >>>> consuming tow > >>>> >> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his > support > >>>> >> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms > of > >>>> >> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan > >>>> will lend > >>>> >> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>> > >>>> >> > >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>> > >>>> >> > >>>> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>> > >>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>> > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>> > >>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>> > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>> URL: > >>>> submersibles/attachments/20170809/ea2b1476/attachment-0001.html > >>>> submersibles/attachments/20170809/ea2b1476/attachment-0001.html>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------ > >>>> > >>>> Message: 2 > >>>> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 15:46:22 +0000 (UTC) > >>>> From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles > >>>> >>>> > > >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>>> >>>> > > >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > >>>> Message-ID: <1907666847.421009.1502293582178 at mail.yahoo.com > >>>> > > >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > >>>> > >>>> Hi Cliff, > >>>> Congrats on your dives. Sub really looks great in those videos. > >>>> With regards to an AC solution, one low tech method would be to > >>>> blow air across ice in a small cooler. Water ice can be super > >>>> cooled with Dry Ice the night before. Dry ice is about - 100 F > >>>> and water ice cooled to this temperature should stay cold for > >>>> quite some time. > >>>> Greg C From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > >>>> >>>> > > >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>>> >>>> > > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 9:05 AM > >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > >>>> > >>>> Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on > >>>> viewport.? I used Dove soap on the viewport interior?prior to > >>>> taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and duration > >>>> of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did not have more > >>>> soap on board.? The other issue is I only had two hand towels on > >>>> board and these became soaked with sweat.? As such, they were not > >>>> good for cleaning the condensation off?after the two hour tow to > >>>> the dive site.? Action items:? Have small bottle of Dove soap on > >>>> board and more towels for future long duration dives.? > >>>> Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers.? I have quite a > >>>> bit of battery capacity so this could work.? Unfortunately, > >>>> mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic foam under > >>>> the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a cool surface to > >>>> mount on.? I do have a pair of plugged off ports on the bottom of > >>>> the boat that would give me access to cooling water source if I > >>>> installed a small pump on this circuit.? Pushing this water > >>>> through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on?water cooled > >>>> motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but > >>>> not?humidity.? ?At Islamorada, the average water temperature at > >>>> the time of the dive was about 87F so this would not have helped > >>>> all that much.? A small DC AC system that controlled both > >>>> temperature and humidity would be better. > >>>> On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy > >>>> with how this worked.? I have all four of my thrusters connected > >>>> to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold into a single pressure > >>>> reducing/relieving regulator (thanks Hugh) ?under the cover just > >>>> aft of the pilot.?I was not sure if a single regulator would work > >>>> or if I would need one for each thruster but it looks like one > >>>> was adequate.? I have had two deep dives with the arrangement, > >>>> one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water > >>>> in the thrusters. > >>>> Best Regards > >>>> Cliff > >>>> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > >>>> >>>> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Thanks Cliff,I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this > >>>> is the entr?e!Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down > >>>> there!After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier > >>>> elements &air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have > >>>> only 25% the efficiency?of a normal compression cycle system, but > >>>> are really small & by reversingthe polarity can act as heaters. A > >>>> few of those peltier elements stuck to the hull?with air > >>>> channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what > >>>> batteries youare using, but the new battery technologies on the > >>>> way will make energyexpenditure less of an issue!Do you have all > >>>> 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see any?air > >>>> coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up > >>>> too muchwhen exhausting.Cheers Alan > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Sent from my iPad > >>>> On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs > >>>> Regatta.? The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug > >>>> 3??https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw?and the second is > >>>> a night dive in front of Doug's house??https://www.youtube. > >>>> com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI.? Alec is working on a more comprehensive > >>>> video of the Regatta. > >>>> Regards > >>>> Cliff > >>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via > >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the > >>>> 4-day > >>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, > August > >>>> 1-3). > >>>> > >>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup > day > >>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was > >>>> unfortunate > >>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands > >>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough > time > >>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic > >>>> diving. > >>>> > >>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, > >>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. > >>>> > >>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation > >>>> diver > >>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this > >>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge > and > >>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have > >>>> chatted > >>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned > the > >>>> tow line and helped with comms. > >>>> > >>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. > >>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were > >>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I > think > >>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! > >>>> > >>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one > of > >>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift > for > >>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always > >>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd > like > >>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned > >>>> more > >>>> than I can remember last week. > >>>> > >>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing > whatever > >>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. > >>>> > >>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the > canal > >>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was > getting > >>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. > >>>> > >>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able > to > >>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We > >>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though > >>>> we did > >>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot > >>>> about > >>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point > >>>> the tow > >>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided > that > >>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio > >>>> to OTS > >>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the > >>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the > Whaler! > >>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow > did > >>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent > >>>> about > >>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, > >>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time > Cliff > >>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at > 4.5 > >>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water > >>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I > >>>> think > >>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great > >>>> accomplishment with the mission. > >>>> > >>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better > tow > >>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our > boat > >>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't > so > >>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs > to > >>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel > >>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and > then > >>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat > and > >>>> sub to track straight). > >>>> > >>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the > waves > >>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like > >>>> this > >>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At > dinner, > >>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that > can > >>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming > tow > >>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support > >>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of > >>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will > lend > >>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. > >>>> > >>>> ______________________________ _________________ > >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or > >>>> g > >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ______________________________ _________________ > >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ______________________________ _________________ > >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>> > >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | > >>>> > >>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>> URL: > >>>> submersibles/attachments/20170809/1374ba08/attachment.html > >>>> submersibles/attachments/20170809/1374ba08/attachment.html>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------ > >>>> > >>>> Subject: Digest Footer > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>> > >>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------ > >>>> > >>>> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 > >>>> ***************************************************** > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>> > >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org psubs.org> > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -- > > Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog > > Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog > > Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 > > Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc > > Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 22:01:02 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 10:01:02 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 In-Reply-To: References: <2fi6mahfj5ijw82a4lodu025.1502303158266@email.android.com> <72DCB6AB-3610-4BFA-853A-69E833780486@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53ff605b-589f-255d-1a5a-f13ab724c7e2@archivale.com> Right - that will work fine with a metal hull! Best, Marc On 8/10/2017 9:33 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Mark, > you don't need any through hulls, just glue them on to your hull with > a heat transfer compound. The heat will go through the hull to the surrounding > water but will also radiate laterally through the metal; hence my suggestion > to insulate around the area a bit so that the cold or heat can't come back in to > the hull. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 10/08/2017, at 1:19 PM, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Peltier modules ARE more efficient than resistive heaters because they are true heat pumps - they don't supply (all) the heat that they emit on the hot side. In fact, they are more efficient as heaters than as coolers. That said, using them is a lot more difficult than using resistors, because they have to be connected on one side to a heat source and on the other to the area you want heated. In a sub, that sounds like you need another penetration in your pressure hull, which I would not be interested in if it were mine. >> >> Marc >> >>> On 8/10/2017 8:14 AM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Hi Alan, >>> Resistive heating being about as close as you can get to 100%, I would be sceptical about that. I've experimented with Peltier modules for gas cooling and they were quite disappointing in performance, although wonderfully simple in operation. >>> Cheers, >>> Steve >>> On 10 Aug 2017 8:33 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" > wrote: >>> Just did some Googling on the Peltier as a heater. >>> In an experiment I saw it was more efficient than resistive heating! >>> This depends to an extent on the ambient heat differential. >>> I would imagine you would need to attach them to the hull & surround >>> them >>> with an insulating material to stop the metal of the hull radiating back >>> the cold or heat produced, & force it to transfer it all to the water. >>> Another bunny trail to investigate. >>> Cheers Alan >>> Sent from my iPad >>> On 10/08/2017, at 9:18 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> >> > wrote: >>>> Mike, >>>> the peltier is only 1/4 to 1/3 as efficient as a compressor >>>> system, but Cliff >>>> & I have very little spare room. They serve as heaters by >>>> reversing polarity. >>>> I am not sure of their efficiency as heaters compared with >>>> resistive coils; >>>> probably poor! Cliff would have to cut a hole in his fibreglass >>>> outer & dig back >>>> the syntactic foam to the pressure hull to get cooling on the >>>> reverse side of >>>> the peltier or compressor air conditioning unit. Could look sexy >>>> if he put some >>>> shark gills in it for water ingress. >>>> Cliff didn't have a cover on the dome, & that would let a lot of >>>> heat in. >>>> We had a wet towel on Snoopy last time at Islamorada. >>>> Have heard that people like Nuytco use a shore based air >>>> conditioner to cool >>>> the sub down prior to a dive; but I don't know how long that >>>> benefit would >>>> last being towed out that distance. >>>> Cheers Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On 10/08/2017, at 6:25 AM, peaceroom via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>>> Reference,summer submarine cooling. A scaled down version of the >>>>> small cooler with ice and DC fan, similar to the one in Sportys, >>>>> aviation supplies is what a lot of planes use. Just an >>>>> inexpensive idea. Peltier coolers provide very little cooling >>>>> versus DC current used. Mike Patterson >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my Samsung device >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------- Original message -------- >>>>> From: via Personal_Submersibles >>>> > >>>>> Date: 8/9/17 11:46 AM (GMT-05:00) >>>>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 >>>>> >>>>> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>>> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>>> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>>> than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Today's Topics: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... >>>>> (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) >>>>> 2. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... >>>>> (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> Message: 1 >>>>> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 08:03:07 -0500 >>>>> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>>> >>>>> Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on >>>>> viewport. I used Dove soap on the viewport interior prior to >>>>> taking off >>>>> but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the >>>>> dive, this >>>>> treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board. The other >>>>> issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became >>>>> soaked with >>>>> sweat. As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation >>>>> off after >>>>> the two hour tow to the dive site. Action items: Have small >>>>> bottle of >>>>> Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives. >>>>> >>>>> Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers. I have quite a >>>>> bit of >>>>> battery capacity so this could work. Unfortunately, mounting on >>>>> hull won't >>>>> work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the >>>>> hull so I >>>>> don't have a cool surface to mount on. I do have a pair of >>>>> plugged off >>>>> ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to >>>>> cooling water >>>>> source if I installed a small pump on this circuit. Pushing this >>>>> water >>>>> through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on water cooled >>>>> motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not >>>>> humidity. At >>>>> Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive >>>>> was about >>>>> 87F so this would not have helped all that much. A small DC AC >>>>> system that >>>>> controlled both temperature and humidity would be better. >>>>> >>>>> On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy >>>>> with how >>>>> this worked. I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4" >>>>> SS tubing >>>>> that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator >>>>> (thanks Hugh) under the cover just aft of the pilot. I was not >>>>> sure if a >>>>> single regulator would work or if I would need one for each >>>>> thruster but it >>>>> looks like one was adequate. I have had two deep dives with the >>>>> arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no >>>>> issues with >>>>> water in the thrusters. >>>>> >>>>> Best Regards >>>>> >>>>> Cliff >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > Thanks Cliff, >>>>> > I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e! >>>>> > Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there! >>>>> > After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier >>>>> elements & >>>>> > air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the >>>>> > efficiency >>>>> > of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by >>>>> reversing >>>>> > the polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier >>>>> elements stuck to >>>>> > the hull >>>>> > with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what >>>>> > batteries you >>>>> > are using, but the new battery technologies on the way will >>>>> make energy >>>>> > expenditure less of an issue! >>>>> > Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? >>>>> Couldn't see >>>>> > any >>>>> > air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't >>>>> building up too >>>>> > much >>>>> > when exhausting. >>>>> > Cheers Alan >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > Sent from my iPad >>>>> > >>>>> > On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> > personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs >>>>> Regatta. The >>>>> > first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3 >>>>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw >>>>> and the second is a >>>>> night >>>>> > dive in front of Doug's house >>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI >>>>> . >>>>> > Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. >>>>> > >>>>> > Regards >>>>> > >>>>> > Cliff >>>>> > >>>>> > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> > personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> >> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on >>>>> the 4-day >>>>> >> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, >>>>> August >>>>> >> 1-3). >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / >>>>> setup day >>>>> >> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was >>>>> unfortunate >>>>> >> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>>>> >> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had >>>>> enough time >>>>> >> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic >>>>> diving. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>>>> >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) >>>>> saturation diver >>>>> >> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>>>> >> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his >>>>> knowledge and >>>>> >> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have >>>>> chatted >>>>> >> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan >>>>> manned the >>>>> >> tow line and helped with comms. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>>>> >> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>>>> >> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I >>>>> think >>>>> >> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is >>>>> one of >>>>> >> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a >>>>> gift for >>>>> >> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>>>> >> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone >>>>> who'd like >>>>> >> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I >>>>> learned more >>>>> >> than I can remember last week. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing >>>>> whatever >>>>> >> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the >>>>> canal >>>>> >> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was >>>>> getting >>>>> >> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was >>>>> able to >>>>> >> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>>>> >> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, >>>>> though we did >>>>> >> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a >>>>> spot about >>>>> >> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point >>>>> the tow >>>>> >> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we >>>>> decided that >>>>> >> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine >>>>> radio to OTS >>>>> >> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>>>> >> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the >>>>> Whaler! >>>>> >> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but >>>>> wow did >>>>> >> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff >>>>> spent about >>>>> >> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>>>> >> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the >>>>> time Cliff >>>>> >> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood >>>>> at 4.5 >>>>> >> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>>>> >> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning >>>>> I think >>>>> >> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>>>> >> accomplishment with the mission. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need >>>>> better tow >>>>> >> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). >>>>> Our boat >>>>> >> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves >>>>> isn't so >>>>> >> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line >>>>> needs to >>>>> >> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow >>>>> vessel >>>>> >> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking >>>>> and then >>>>> >> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for >>>>> boat and >>>>> >> sub to track straight). >>>>> >> >>>>> >> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the >>>>> waves >>>>> >> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation >>>>> like this >>>>> >> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At >>>>> dinner, >>>>> >> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel >>>>> that can >>>>> >> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time >>>>> consuming tow >>>>> >> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>>>> >> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>>>> >> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan >>>>> will lend >>>>> >> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> >>>>> >> >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> >>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> >>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>>> URL: >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 2 >>>>> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 15:46:22 +0000 (UTC) >>>>> From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... >>>>> Message-ID: <1907666847.421009.1502293582178 at mail.yahoo.com >>>>> > >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>>> >>>>> Hi Cliff, >>>>> Congrats on your dives. Sub really looks great in those videos. >>>>> With regards to an AC solution, one low tech method would be to >>>>> blow air across ice in a small cooler. Water ice can be super >>>>> cooled with Dry Ice the night before. Dry ice is about - 100 F >>>>> and water ice cooled to this temperature should stay cold for >>>>> quite some time. >>>>> Greg C From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 9:05 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... >>>>> >>>>> Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on >>>>> viewport.? I used Dove soap on the viewport interior?prior to >>>>> taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and duration >>>>> of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did not have more >>>>> soap on board.? The other issue is I only had two hand towels on >>>>> board and these became soaked with sweat.? As such, they were not >>>>> good for cleaning the condensation off?after the two hour tow to >>>>> the dive site.? Action items:? Have small bottle of Dove soap on >>>>> board and more towels for future long duration dives.? >>>>> Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers.? I have quite a >>>>> bit of battery capacity so this could work.? Unfortunately, >>>>> mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic foam under >>>>> the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a cool surface to >>>>> mount on.? I do have a pair of plugged off ports on the bottom of >>>>> the boat that would give me access to cooling water source if I >>>>> installed a small pump on this circuit.? Pushing this water >>>>> through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on?water cooled >>>>> motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but >>>>> not?humidity.? ?At Islamorada, the average water temperature at >>>>> the time of the dive was about 87F so this would not have helped >>>>> all that much.? A small DC AC system that controlled both >>>>> temperature and humidity would be better. >>>>> On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy >>>>> with how this worked.? I have all four of my thrusters connected >>>>> to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold into a single pressure >>>>> reducing/relieving regulator (thanks Hugh) ?under the cover just >>>>> aft of the pilot.?I was not sure if a single regulator would work >>>>> or if I would need one for each thruster but it looks like one >>>>> was adequate.? I have had two deep dives with the arrangement, >>>>> one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water >>>>> in the thrusters. >>>>> Best Regards >>>>> Cliff >>>>> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> >>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks Cliff,I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this >>>>> is the entr?e!Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down >>>>> there!After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier >>>>> elements &air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have >>>>> only 25% the efficiency?of a normal compression cycle system, but >>>>> are really small & by reversingthe polarity can act as heaters. A >>>>> few of those peltier elements stuck to the hull?with air >>>>> channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what >>>>> batteries youare using, but the new battery technologies on the >>>>> way will make energyexpenditure less of an issue!Do you have all >>>>> 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see any?air >>>>> coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up >>>>> too muchwhen exhausting.Cheers Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs >>>>> Regatta.? The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug >>>>> 3??https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw?and the second is >>>>> a night dive in front of Doug's house??https://www.youtube. >>>>> com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI.? Alec is working on a more comprehensive >>>>> video of the Regatta. >>>>> Regards >>>>> Cliff >>>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the >>>>> 4-day >>>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >>>>> 1-3). >>>>> >>>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was >>>>> unfortunate >>>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic >>>>> diving. >>>>> >>>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>>>> >>>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation >>>>> diver >>>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >>>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have >>>>> chatted >>>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>>>> tow line and helped with comms. >>>>> >>>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >>>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>>>> >>>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >>>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned >>>>> more >>>>> than I can remember last week. >>>>> >>>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >>>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>>>> >>>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >>>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>>>> >>>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >>>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though >>>>> we did >>>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot >>>>> about >>>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point >>>>> the tow >>>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >>>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio >>>>> to OTS >>>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >>>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >>>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent >>>>> about >>>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >>>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I >>>>> think >>>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>>>> accomplishment with the mission. >>>>> >>>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >>>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >>>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >>>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >>>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >>>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >>>>> sub to track straight). >>>>> >>>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >>>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like >>>>> this >>>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >>>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >>>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >>>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or >>>>> g >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | >>>>> >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>>> URL: >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Digest Footer >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> >>>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 >>>>> ***************************************************** >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> -- >> Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog >> Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog >> Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 >> Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc >> Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 22:12:14 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 22:12:14 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 34 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alan, Commercial airliners use air as the working fluid in their refrigeration and air conditioning systems. Having a noxious chemical refrigerant leak into an enclosed space doesn't seem too appealing to me. I can't say I've browsed the section on air conditioning in ABS or GL, but prohibition of onboard refrigerant wouldn't surprise me. On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 10:00 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 > (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 10:01:02 +0800 > From: Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, > Issue 19 > Message-ID: <53ff605b-589f-255d-1a5a-f13ab724c7e2 at archivale.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > Right - that will work fine with a metal hull! > > Best, > Marc > > On 8/10/2017 9:33 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Mark, > > you don't need any through hulls, just glue them on to your hull with > > a heat transfer compound. The heat will go through the hull to the > surrounding > > water but will also radiate laterally through the metal; hence my > suggestion > > to insulate around the area a bit so that the cold or heat can't come > back in to > > the hull. > > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > >> On 10/08/2017, at 1:19 PM, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> > >> Peltier modules ARE more efficient than resistive heaters because they > are true heat pumps - they don't supply (all) the heat that they emit on > the hot side. In fact, they are more efficient as heaters than as coolers. > That said, using them is a lot more difficult than using resistors, because > they have to be connected on one side to a heat source and on the other to > the area you want heated. In a sub, that sounds like you need another > penetration in your pressure hull, which I would not be interested in if it > were mine. > >> > >> Marc > >> > >>> On 8/10/2017 8:14 AM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >>> Hi Alan, > >>> Resistive heating being about as close as you can get to 100%, I would > be sceptical about that. I've experimented with Peltier modules for gas > cooling and they were quite disappointing in performance, although > wonderfully simple in operation. > >>> Cheers, > >>> Steve > >>> On 10 Aug 2017 8:33 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > >>> Just did some Googling on the Peltier as a heater. > >>> In an experiment I saw it was more efficient than resistive > heating! > >>> This depends to an extent on the ambient heat differential. > >>> I would imagine you would need to attach them to the hull & > surround > >>> them > >>> with an insulating material to stop the metal of the hull > radiating back > >>> the cold or heat produced, & force it to transfer it all to the > water. > >>> Another bunny trail to investigate. > >>> Cheers Alan > >>> Sent from my iPad > >>> On 10/08/2017, at 9:18 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > >>> >>> > wrote: > >>>> Mike, > >>>> the peltier is only 1/4 to 1/3 as efficient as a compressor > >>>> system, but Cliff > >>>> & I have very little spare room. They serve as heaters by > >>>> reversing polarity. > >>>> I am not sure of their efficiency as heaters compared with > >>>> resistive coils; > >>>> probably poor! Cliff would have to cut a hole in his fibreglass > >>>> outer & dig back > >>>> the syntactic foam to the pressure hull to get cooling on the > >>>> reverse side of > >>>> the peltier or compressor air conditioning unit. Could look sexy > >>>> if he put some > >>>> shark gills in it for water ingress. > >>>> Cliff didn't have a cover on the dome, & that would let a lot of > >>>> heat in. > >>>> We had a wet towel on Snoopy last time at Islamorada. > >>>> Have heard that people like Nuytco use a shore based air > >>>> conditioner to cool > >>>> the sub down prior to a dive; but I don't know how long that > >>>> benefit would > >>>> last being towed out that distance. > >>>> Cheers Alan > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Sent from my iPad > >>>> > >>>> On 10/08/2017, at 6:25 AM, peaceroom via Personal_Submersibles > >>>> >>>> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Reference,summer submarine cooling. A scaled down version of the > >>>>> small cooler with ice and DC fan, similar to the one in Sportys, > >>>>> aviation supplies is what a lot of planes use. Just an > >>>>> inexpensive idea. Peltier coolers provide very little cooling > >>>>> versus DC current used. Mike Patterson > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Sent from my Samsung device > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -------- Original message -------- > >>>>> From: via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> > > >>>>> Date: 8/9/17 11:46 AM (GMT-05:00) > >>>>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > >>>>> > >>>>> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 > >>>>> > >>>>> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to > >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >>>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>>> submersibles> > >>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >>>>> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at > >>>>> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific > >>>>> than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Today's Topics: > >>>>> > >>>>> 1. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... > >>>>> (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) > >>>>> 2. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... > >>>>> (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > >>>>> > >>>>> Message: 1 > >>>>> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 08:03:07 -0500 > >>>>> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > >>>>> >>>>> > > >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>>>> >>>>> > > >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > >>>>> Message-ID: > >>>>> mail.gmail.com > >>>>> Q9cg at mail.gmail.com>> > >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > >>>>> > >>>>> Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on > >>>>> viewport. I used Dove soap on the viewport interior prior to > >>>>> taking off > >>>>> but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the > >>>>> dive, this > >>>>> treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board. > The other > >>>>> issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became > >>>>> soaked with > >>>>> sweat. As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation > >>>>> off after > >>>>> the two hour tow to the dive site. Action items: Have small > >>>>> bottle of > >>>>> Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration > dives. > >>>>> > >>>>> Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers. I have quite a > >>>>> bit of > >>>>> battery capacity so this could work. Unfortunately, mounting on > >>>>> hull won't > >>>>> work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the > >>>>> hull so I > >>>>> don't have a cool surface to mount on. I do have a pair of > >>>>> plugged off > >>>>> ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to > >>>>> cooling water > >>>>> source if I installed a small pump on this circuit. Pushing this > >>>>> water > >>>>> through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on water cooled > >>>>> motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not > >>>>> humidity. At > >>>>> Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive > >>>>> was about > >>>>> 87F so this would not have helped all that much. A small DC AC > >>>>> system that > >>>>> controlled both temperature and humidity would be better. > >>>>> > >>>>> On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy > >>>>> with how > >>>>> this worked. I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4" > >>>>> SS tubing > >>>>> that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving > regulator > >>>>> (thanks Hugh) under the cover just aft of the pilot. I was not > >>>>> sure if a > >>>>> single regulator would work or if I would need one for each > >>>>> thruster but it > >>>>> looks like one was adequate. I have had two deep dives with the > >>>>> arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no > >>>>> issues with > >>>>> water in the thrusters. > >>>>> > >>>>> Best Regards > >>>>> > >>>>> Cliff > >>>>> > >>>>> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org > >>>>> > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > Thanks Cliff, > >>>>> > I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the > entr?e! > >>>>> > Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there! > >>>>> > After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier > >>>>> elements & > >>>>> > air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% > the > >>>>> > efficiency > >>>>> > of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by > >>>>> reversing > >>>>> > the polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier > >>>>> elements stuck to > >>>>> > the hull > >>>>> > with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure > what > >>>>> > batteries you > >>>>> > are using, but the new battery technologies on the way will > >>>>> make energy > >>>>> > expenditure less of an issue! > >>>>> > Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? > >>>>> Couldn't see > >>>>> > any > >>>>> > air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't > >>>>> building up too > >>>>> > much > >>>>> > when exhausting. > >>>>> > Cheers Alan > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > Sent from my iPad > >>>>> > > >>>>> > On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles < > >>>>> > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > >>>>> > wrote: > >>>>> > > >>>>> > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs > >>>>> Regatta. The > >>>>> > first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3 > >>>>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw > >>>>> and the second is > a > >>>>> night > >>>>> > dive in front of Doug's house > >>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI > >>>>> . > >>>>> > Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. > >>>>> > > >>>>> > Regards > >>>>> > > >>>>> > Cliff > >>>>> > > >>>>> > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via > >>>>> Personal_Submersibles < > >>>>> > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > >>>>> > wrote: > >>>>> > > >>>>> >> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on > >>>>> the 4-day > >>>>> >> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, > >>>>> August > >>>>> >> 1-3). > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / > >>>>> setup day > >>>>> >> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was > >>>>> unfortunate > >>>>> >> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our > hands > >>>>> >> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had > >>>>> enough time > >>>>> >> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic > >>>>> diving. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick > Maxwell, > >>>>> >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) > >>>>> saturation diver > >>>>> >> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on > this > >>>>> >> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his > >>>>> knowledge and > >>>>> >> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have > >>>>> chatted > >>>>> >> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan > >>>>> manned the > >>>>> >> tow line and helped with comms. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog > men. > >>>>> >> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they > were > >>>>> >> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I > >>>>> think > >>>>> >> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is > >>>>> one of > >>>>> >> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a > >>>>> gift for > >>>>> >> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is > always > >>>>> >> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone > >>>>> who'd like > >>>>> >> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I > >>>>> learned more > >>>>> >> than I can remember last week. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing > >>>>> whatever > >>>>> >> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the > >>>>> canal > >>>>> >> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was > >>>>> getting > >>>>> >> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was > >>>>> able to > >>>>> >> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about > 4mph). We > >>>>> >> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, > >>>>> though we did > >>>>> >> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a > >>>>> spot about > >>>>> >> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point > >>>>> the tow > >>>>> >> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we > >>>>> decided that > >>>>> >> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine > >>>>> radio to OTS > >>>>> >> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff > neared the > >>>>> >> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the > >>>>> Whaler! > >>>>> >> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but > >>>>> wow did > >>>>> >> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff > >>>>> spent about > >>>>> >> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering > about, > >>>>> >> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the > >>>>> time Cliff > >>>>> >> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood > >>>>> at 4.5 > >>>>> >> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the > water > >>>>> >> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning > >>>>> I think > >>>>> >> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great > >>>>> >> accomplishment with the mission. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need > >>>>> better tow > >>>>> >> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). > >>>>> Our boat > >>>>> >> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves > >>>>> isn't so > >>>>> >> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line > >>>>> needs to > >>>>> >> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow > >>>>> vessel > >>>>> >> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking > >>>>> and then > >>>>> >> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for > >>>>> boat and > >>>>> >> sub to track straight). > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the > >>>>> waves > >>>>> >> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation > >>>>> like this > >>>>> >> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At > >>>>> dinner, > >>>>> >> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel > >>>>> that can > >>>>> >> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time > >>>>> consuming tow > >>>>> >> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his > support > >>>>> >> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in > terms of > >>>>> >> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan > >>>>> will lend > >>>>> >> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>>> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>>> > > >>>>> >> > >>>>> > > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>>> > >>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>>> > >>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>>> URL: > >>>>> submersibles/attachments/20170809/ea2b1476/attachment-0001.html > >>>>> submersibles/attachments/20170809/ea2b1476/attachment-0001.html>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ------------------------------ > >>>>> > >>>>> Message: 2 > >>>>> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 15:46:22 +0000 (UTC) > >>>>> From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles > >>>>> >>>>> > > >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>>>> >>>>> > > >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > >>>>> Message-ID: <1907666847.421009.1502293582178 at mail.yahoo.com > >>>>> > > >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi Cliff, > >>>>> Congrats on your dives. Sub really looks great in those videos. > >>>>> With regards to an AC solution, one low tech method would be to > >>>>> blow air across ice in a small cooler. Water ice can be super > >>>>> cooled with Dry Ice the night before. Dry ice is about - 100 F > >>>>> and water ice cooled to this temperature should stay cold for > >>>>> quite some time. > >>>>> Greg C From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > >>>>> >>>>> > > >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>>>> >>>>> > > >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 9:05 AM > >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > >>>>> > >>>>> Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on > >>>>> viewport.? I used Dove soap on the viewport interior?prior to > >>>>> taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and duration > >>>>> of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did not have more > >>>>> soap on board.? The other issue is I only had two hand towels on > >>>>> board and these became soaked with sweat.? As such, they were not > >>>>> good for cleaning the condensation off?after the two hour tow to > >>>>> the dive site.? Action items:? Have small bottle of Dove soap on > >>>>> board and more towels for future long duration dives.? > >>>>> Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers.? I have quite a > >>>>> bit of battery capacity so this could work.? Unfortunately, > >>>>> mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic foam under > >>>>> the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a cool surface to > >>>>> mount on.? I do have a pair of plugged off ports on the bottom of > >>>>> the boat that would give me access to cooling water source if I > >>>>> installed a small pump on this circuit.? Pushing this water > >>>>> through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on?water cooled > >>>>> motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but > >>>>> not?humidity.? ?At Islamorada, the average water temperature at > >>>>> the time of the dive was about 87F so this would not have helped > >>>>> all that much.? A small DC AC system that controlled both > >>>>> temperature and humidity would be better. > >>>>> On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy > >>>>> with how this worked.? I have all four of my thrusters connected > >>>>> to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold into a single pressure > >>>>> reducing/relieving regulator (thanks Hugh) ?under the cover just > >>>>> aft of the pilot.?I was not sure if a single regulator would work > >>>>> or if I would need one for each thruster but it looks like one > >>>>> was adequate.? I have had two deep dives with the arrangement, > >>>>> one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water > >>>>> in the thrusters. > >>>>> Best Regards > >>>>> Cliff > >>>>> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > >>>>> >>>>> > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks Cliff,I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this > >>>>> is the entr?e!Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down > >>>>> there!After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier > >>>>> elements &air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have > >>>>> only 25% the efficiency?of a normal compression cycle system, but > >>>>> are really small & by reversingthe polarity can act as heaters. A > >>>>> few of those peltier elements stuck to the hull?with air > >>>>> channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what > >>>>> batteries youare using, but the new battery technologies on the > >>>>> way will make energyexpenditure less of an issue!Do you have all > >>>>> 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see any?air > >>>>> coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up > >>>>> too muchwhen exhausting.Cheers Alan > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Sent from my iPad > >>>>> On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs > >>>>> Regatta.? The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug > >>>>> 3??https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw?and the second > is > >>>>> a night dive in front of Doug's house??https://www.youtube. > >>>>> com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI.? Alec is working on a more comprehensive > >>>>> video of the Regatta. > >>>>> Regards > >>>>> Cliff > >>>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via > >>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the > >>>>> 4-day > >>>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, > August > >>>>> 1-3). > >>>>> > >>>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / > setup day > >>>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was > >>>>> unfortunate > >>>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our > hands > >>>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough > time > >>>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic > >>>>> diving. > >>>>> > >>>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick > Maxwell, > >>>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. > >>>>> > >>>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation > >>>>> diver > >>>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on > this > >>>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his > knowledge and > >>>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have > >>>>> chatted > >>>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned > the > >>>>> tow line and helped with comms. > >>>>> > >>>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. > >>>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they > were > >>>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I > think > >>>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! > >>>>> > >>>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is > one of > >>>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift > for > >>>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always > >>>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd > like > >>>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned > >>>>> more > >>>>> than I can remember last week. > >>>>> > >>>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing > whatever > >>>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. > >>>>> > >>>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the > canal > >>>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was > getting > >>>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. > >>>>> > >>>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was > able to > >>>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). > We > >>>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though > >>>>> we did > >>>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot > >>>>> about > >>>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point > >>>>> the tow > >>>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided > that > >>>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio > >>>>> to OTS > >>>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared > the > >>>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the > Whaler! > >>>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow > did > >>>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent > >>>>> about > >>>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering > about, > >>>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time > Cliff > >>>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood > at 4.5 > >>>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water > >>>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I > >>>>> think > >>>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great > >>>>> accomplishment with the mission. > >>>>> > >>>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better > tow > >>>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our > boat > >>>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves > isn't so > >>>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line > needs to > >>>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow > vessel > >>>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and > then > >>>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat > and > >>>>> sub to track straight). > >>>>> > >>>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the > waves > >>>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like > >>>>> this > >>>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At > dinner, > >>>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel > that can > >>>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time > consuming tow > >>>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his > support > >>>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of > >>>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will > lend > >>>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. > >>>>> > >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ > >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or > >>>>> g > >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib > les > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ > >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ > >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>>> > > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | > >>>>> > >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>>> URL: > >>>>> submersibles/attachments/20170809/1374ba08/attachment.html > >>>>> submersibles/attachments/20170809/1374ba08/attachment.html>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ------------------------------ > >>>>> > >>>>> Subject: Digest Footer > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>>> submersibles> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ------------------------------ > >>>>> > >>>>> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 > >>>>> ***************************************************** > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>> > >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org psubs.org> > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > >> -- > >> Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog > >> Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog > >> Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 > >> Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc > >> Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -- > Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog > Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog > Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 > Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc > Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 34 > ***************************************************** > -- -River J. Dolfi 412-997-2526 rdolfi7 at gmail.com rwd5301 at psu.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 22:13:00 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 22:13:00 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: <048b01d31097$fcdf6000$f69e2000$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <15dc9ea94e7-6721-b4fc@webprd-a71.mail.aol.com> A simpler way is to tow a drogue behind the sub. Works a treat, even in big seas. I've surfed down the face of enough 12 to 15 footers to know, too. We used a simple metal hoop one meter in diameter with a shallow canvas sock, and an attachment line about 25 meters long. A single Yamaha probably wouldn't be too happy with one that size.You'll need an attachment point aft, of course. Try something a foot across, probably not more than eighteen inches. Rig it with a 3 legged yoke about 5 times the length of your drogue diameter to a center shackle for the tow line, and put a couple of nokalon buoys on the line down on the working end to keep it afloat when you aren't pulling. Use dacron line, not nylon (too stretchy) or poly (too many knots). As for the yawing, most people don't get this, but the secret is to INCREASE the rate of tow. Otherwise the pull and release of tension lets the sub ride up and then plunge, and in between times, any slack at all lets it hunt left or right before the tow line snatches you straight again. And then the next wave comes and the process repeats.That seemed to be your problem coming back in. Practically speaking, It doesn't really make any difference if the sub tows underwater, or partly underwater. Aquarius and the Pisces boats tow from astern, and they take on a pretty steep angle, too. >From the thruster positioning, I would suspect the R300 to have been a lot more maneuverable than before, if a little slow in the process. That's a pretty long lever. Star II had an aft pair of thrusters rigged like that, although further apart. HURL repositioned them 1/3 of the boat length forward and were a whole lot happier. Great video. I am surely sorry to have missed this trip. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Tue, Aug 8, 2017 6:45 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Hi Cliff, Great to hear about all your experiences. Well done. Have you considered fitting a small foil to the bow, just for towing, to allow your sub to be towed faster and get the nose up. Pulling from lower down would be problematic in that it would increase tendency to roll and yaw methinks. Cheers, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 9 August 2017 2:14 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Hank, I think that this is possible. Have been giving it some thought. What I would really like is the 11.5 m long, 4.3m beam powered aluminum catamaran sub tender that Dan Lance showed us at the Regatta. The vessel is designed to transport and launch two Psubs with a cruising speed of 25knots. Got to have deep pockets to built it. But can you imagine a floating psub convention in the Bahamas or Roatan ! We would have people stacked up wanting to attend. Cliff On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 7:07 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, Sounds like a great time! you are lucky that R-300 is so small. You can build a pontoon style launch cradle that can ballast up or down. You can transport the sub in the cradle on one trailer. You can tow the sub to your dive site, then get in in comfort and safety. Hank On Monday, August 7, 2017, 5:51:35 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff. I am wanting to glean as much as I can from this for my build! When you've recovered; do you think some sort of snorkel system with fresh air flowing in would have helped? Did you cover the dome while towing? What sort of towing speed were you getting when you weren't submerged? How was manoeuvrability this time round? Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 8/08/2017, at 11:26 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the best sub trip of my life! I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of the 2017 Psub Regatta. I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we ran partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to see if we could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells. Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow back was rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster both in the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies but it was close. As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing. Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board water and upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water. We were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. More latter. Cliff On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August 1-3). Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the tow line and helped with comms. Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more than I can remember last week. Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great accomplishment with the mission. A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and sub to track straight). The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 9 23:02:28 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 15:02:28 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 34 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks River, Cliff & I have one person subs so Peltiers could end up our preferred option, but may well prove uneconomical in power to make a difference in a larger sub. Also as you point out, contaminants from a refrigeration unit aren't good, especially in a smaller enclosure. Just found my peltier, & wow it gets hot quick, & the cooling ability is relative to how well you can get rid of that heat. It's 1&1/2" square & is 70W. So for 6 square inches of area you get 1,120W of heating / cooling at $3- each. http://www.gearbest.com/other-accessories/pp_142071.html?vip=766773&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIurqE_cXL1QIVR3S9Ch1pqg9VEAAYAiAAEgLN3vD_BwE Alan Sent from my iPad > On 10/08/2017, at 2:12 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > Commercial airliners use air as the working fluid in their refrigeration and air conditioning systems. Having a noxious chemical refrigerant leak into an enclosed space doesn't seem too appealing to me. I can't say I've browsed the section on air conditioning in ABS or GL, but prohibition of onboard refrigerant wouldn't surprise me. > >> On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 10:00 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 >> (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 10:01:02 +0800 >> From: Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, >> Issue 19 >> Message-ID: <53ff605b-589f-255d-1a5a-f13ab724c7e2 at archivale.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed >> >> Right - that will work fine with a metal hull! >> >> Best, >> Marc >> >> On 8/10/2017 9:33 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > Mark, >> > you don't need any through hulls, just glue them on to your hull with >> > a heat transfer compound. The heat will go through the hull to the surrounding >> > water but will also radiate laterally through the metal; hence my suggestion >> > to insulate around the area a bit so that the cold or heat can't come back in to >> > the hull. >> > Alan >> > >> > Sent from my iPad >> > >> >> On 10/08/2017, at 1:19 PM, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> >> Peltier modules ARE more efficient than resistive heaters because they are true heat pumps - they don't supply (all) the heat that they emit on the hot side. In fact, they are more efficient as heaters than as coolers. That said, using them is a lot more difficult than using resistors, because they have to be connected on one side to a heat source and on the other to the area you want heated. In a sub, that sounds like you need another penetration in your pressure hull, which I would not be interested in if it were mine. >> >> >> >> Marc >> >> >> >>> On 8/10/2017 8:14 AM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> Hi Alan, >> >>> Resistive heating being about as close as you can get to 100%, I would be sceptical about that. I've experimented with Peltier modules for gas cooling and they were quite disappointing in performance, although wonderfully simple in operation. >> >>> Cheers, >> >>> Steve >> >>> On 10 Aug 2017 8:33 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" > wrote: >> >>> Just did some Googling on the Peltier as a heater. >> >>> In an experiment I saw it was more efficient than resistive heating! >> >>> This depends to an extent on the ambient heat differential. >> >>> I would imagine you would need to attach them to the hull & surround >> >>> them >> >>> with an insulating material to stop the metal of the hull radiating back >> >>> the cold or heat produced, & force it to transfer it all to the water. >> >>> Another bunny trail to investigate. >> >>> Cheers Alan >> >>> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 10/08/2017, at 9:18 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> >>> > >>> > wrote: >> >>>> Mike, >> >>>> the peltier is only 1/4 to 1/3 as efficient as a compressor >> >>>> system, but Cliff >> >>>> & I have very little spare room. They serve as heaters by >> >>>> reversing polarity. >> >>>> I am not sure of their efficiency as heaters compared with >> >>>> resistive coils; >> >>>> probably poor! Cliff would have to cut a hole in his fibreglass >> >>>> outer & dig back >> >>>> the syntactic foam to the pressure hull to get cooling on the >> >>>> reverse side of >> >>>> the peltier or compressor air conditioning unit. Could look sexy >> >>>> if he put some >> >>>> shark gills in it for water ingress. >> >>>> Cliff didn't have a cover on the dome, & that would let a lot of >> >>>> heat in. >> >>>> We had a wet towel on Snoopy last time at Islamorada. >> >>>> Have heard that people like Nuytco use a shore based air >> >>>> conditioner to cool >> >>>> the sub down prior to a dive; but I don't know how long that >> >>>> benefit would >> >>>> last being towed out that distance. >> >>>> Cheers Alan >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Sent from my iPad >> >>>> >> >>>> On 10/08/2017, at 6:25 AM, peaceroom via Personal_Submersibles >> >>>> > >>>> > wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> Reference,summer submarine cooling. A scaled down version of the >> >>>>> small cooler with ice and DC fan, similar to the one in Sportys, >> >>>>> aviation supplies is what a lot of planes use. Just an >> >>>>> inexpensive idea. Peltier coolers provide very little cooling >> >>>>> versus DC current used. Mike Patterson >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Sent from my Samsung device >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -------- Original message -------- >> >>>>> From: via Personal_Submersibles > >>>>> > >> >>>>> Date: 8/9/17 11:46 AM (GMT-05:00) >> >>>>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >> >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> >>>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>>>> >> >>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> >>>>> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >> >>>>> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> >>>>> than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Today's Topics: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> 1. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... >> >>>>> (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) >> >>>>> 2. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... >> >>>>> (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Message: 1 >> >>>>> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 08:03:07 -0500 >> >>>>> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >> >>>>> > >>>>> > >> >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >>>>> > >>>>> > >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... >> >>>>> Message-ID: >> >>>>> > >>>>> > >> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on >> >>>>> viewport. I used Dove soap on the viewport interior prior to >> >>>>> taking off >> >>>>> but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the >> >>>>> dive, this >> >>>>> treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board. The other >> >>>>> issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became >> >>>>> soaked with >> >>>>> sweat. As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation >> >>>>> off after >> >>>>> the two hour tow to the dive site. Action items: Have small >> >>>>> bottle of >> >>>>> Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers. I have quite a >> >>>>> bit of >> >>>>> battery capacity so this could work. Unfortunately, mounting on >> >>>>> hull won't >> >>>>> work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the >> >>>>> hull so I >> >>>>> don't have a cool surface to mount on. I do have a pair of >> >>>>> plugged off >> >>>>> ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to >> >>>>> cooling water >> >>>>> source if I installed a small pump on this circuit. Pushing this >> >>>>> water >> >>>>> through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on water cooled >> >>>>> motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not >> >>>>> humidity. At >> >>>>> Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive >> >>>>> was about >> >>>>> 87F so this would not have helped all that much. A small DC AC >> >>>>> system that >> >>>>> controlled both temperature and humidity would be better. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy >> >>>>> with how >> >>>>> this worked. I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4" >> >>>>> SS tubing >> >>>>> that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator >> >>>>> (thanks Hugh) under the cover just aft of the pilot. I was not >> >>>>> sure if a >> >>>>> single regulator would work or if I would need one for each >> >>>>> thruster but it >> >>>>> looks like one was adequate. I have had two deep dives with the >> >>>>> arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no >> >>>>> issues with >> >>>>> water in the thrusters. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Best Regards >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Cliff >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> >>>>> > wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> > Thanks Cliff, >> >>>>> > I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e! >> >>>>> > Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there! >> >>>>> > After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier >> >>>>> elements & >> >>>>> > air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the >> >>>>> > efficiency >> >>>>> > of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by >> >>>>> reversing >> >>>>> > the polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier >> >>>>> elements stuck to >> >>>>> > the hull >> >>>>> > with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what >> >>>>> > batteries you >> >>>>> > are using, but the new battery technologies on the way will >> >>>>> make energy >> >>>>> > expenditure less of an issue! >> >>>>> > Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? >> >>>>> Couldn't see >> >>>>> > any >> >>>>> > air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't >> >>>>> building up too >> >>>>> > much >> >>>>> > when exhausting. >> >>>>> > Cheers Alan >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > Sent from my iPad >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> >>>>> > personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> >>>>> > wrote: >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs >> >>>>> Regatta. The >> >>>>> > first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3 >> >>>>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw >> >>>>> and the second is a >> >>>>> night >> >>>>> > dive in front of Doug's house >> >>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI >> >>>>> . >> >>>>> > Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > Regards >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > Cliff >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via >> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles < >> >>>>> > personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> >>>>> > wrote: >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> >> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on >> >>>>> the 4-day >> >>>>> >> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, >> >>>>> August >> >>>>> >> 1-3). >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / >> >>>>> setup day >> >>>>> >> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was >> >>>>> unfortunate >> >>>>> >> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >> >>>>> >> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had >> >>>>> enough time >> >>>>> >> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic >> >>>>> diving. >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >> >>>>> >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) >> >>>>> saturation diver >> >>>>> >> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >> >>>>> >> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his >> >>>>> knowledge and >> >>>>> >> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have >> >>>>> chatted >> >>>>> >> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan >> >>>>> manned the >> >>>>> >> tow line and helped with comms. >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >> >>>>> >> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >> >>>>> >> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I >> >>>>> think >> >>>>> >> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is >> >>>>> one of >> >>>>> >> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a >> >>>>> gift for >> >>>>> >> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >> >>>>> >> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone >> >>>>> who'd like >> >>>>> >> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I >> >>>>> learned more >> >>>>> >> than I can remember last week. >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing >> >>>>> whatever >> >>>>> >> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the >> >>>>> canal >> >>>>> >> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was >> >>>>> getting >> >>>>> >> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was >> >>>>> able to >> >>>>> >> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >> >>>>> >> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, >> >>>>> though we did >> >>>>> >> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a >> >>>>> spot about >> >>>>> >> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point >> >>>>> the tow >> >>>>> >> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we >> >>>>> decided that >> >>>>> >> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine >> >>>>> radio to OTS >> >>>>> >> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >> >>>>> >> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the >> >>>>> Whaler! >> >>>>> >> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but >> >>>>> wow did >> >>>>> >> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff >> >>>>> spent about >> >>>>> >> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >> >>>>> >> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the >> >>>>> time Cliff >> >>>>> >> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood >> >>>>> at 4.5 >> >>>>> >> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >> >>>>> >> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning >> >>>>> I think >> >>>>> >> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >> >>>>> >> accomplishment with the mission. >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need >> >>>>> better tow >> >>>>> >> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). >> >>>>> Our boat >> >>>>> >> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves >> >>>>> isn't so >> >>>>> >> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line >> >>>>> needs to >> >>>>> >> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow >> >>>>> vessel >> >>>>> >> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking >> >>>>> and then >> >>>>> >> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for >> >>>>> boat and >> >>>>> >> sub to track straight). >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the >> >>>>> waves >> >>>>> >> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation >> >>>>> like this >> >>>>> >> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At >> >>>>> dinner, >> >>>>> >> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel >> >>>>> that can >> >>>>> >> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time >> >>>>> consuming tow >> >>>>> >> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >> >>>>> >> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >> >>>>> >> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan >> >>>>> will lend >> >>>>> >> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >>>>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >>>>> >> >>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>>>> >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >>>>> >> >>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>>>> >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- >> >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> >>>>> URL: >> >>>>> > >>>>> > >> >>>>> >> >>>>> ------------------------------ >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Message: 2 >> >>>>> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 15:46:22 +0000 (UTC) >> >>>>> From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles >> >>>>> > >>>>> > >> >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >>>>> > >>>>> > >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... >> >>>>> Message-ID: <1907666847.421009.1502293582178 at mail.yahoo.com >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Hi Cliff, >> >>>>> Congrats on your dives. Sub really looks great in those videos. >> >>>>> With regards to an AC solution, one low tech method would be to >> >>>>> blow air across ice in a small cooler. Water ice can be super >> >>>>> cooled with Dry Ice the night before. Dry ice is about - 100 F >> >>>>> and water ice cooled to this temperature should stay cold for >> >>>>> quite some time. >> >>>>> Greg C From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >> >>>>> > >>>>> > >> >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >>>>> > >>>>> > >> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 9:05 AM >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on >> >>>>> viewport.? I used Dove soap on the viewport interior?prior to >> >>>>> taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and duration >> >>>>> of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did not have more >> >>>>> soap on board.? The other issue is I only had two hand towels on >> >>>>> board and these became soaked with sweat.? As such, they were not >> >>>>> good for cleaning the condensation off?after the two hour tow to >> >>>>> the dive site.? Action items:? Have small bottle of Dove soap on >> >>>>> board and more towels for future long duration dives.? >> >>>>> Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers.? I have quite a >> >>>>> bit of battery capacity so this could work.? Unfortunately, >> >>>>> mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic foam under >> >>>>> the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a cool surface to >> >>>>> mount on.? I do have a pair of plugged off ports on the bottom of >> >>>>> the boat that would give me access to cooling water source if I >> >>>>> installed a small pump on this circuit.? Pushing this water >> >>>>> through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on?water cooled >> >>>>> motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but >> >>>>> not?humidity.? ?At Islamorada, the average water temperature at >> >>>>> the time of the dive was about 87F so this would not have helped >> >>>>> all that much.? A small DC AC system that controlled both >> >>>>> temperature and humidity would be better. >> >>>>> On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy >> >>>>> with how this worked.? I have all four of my thrusters connected >> >>>>> to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold into a single pressure >> >>>>> reducing/relieving regulator (thanks Hugh) ?under the cover just >> >>>>> aft of the pilot.?I was not sure if a single regulator would work >> >>>>> or if I would need one for each thruster but it looks like one >> >>>>> was adequate.? I have had two deep dives with the arrangement, >> >>>>> one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water >> >>>>> in the thrusters. >> >>>>> Best Regards >> >>>>> Cliff >> >>>>> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> >>>>> > >>>>> > wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Thanks Cliff,I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this >> >>>>> is the entr?e!Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down >> >>>>> there!After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier >> >>>>> elements &air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have >> >>>>> only 25% the efficiency?of a normal compression cycle system, but >> >>>>> are really small & by reversingthe polarity can act as heaters. A >> >>>>> few of those peltier elements stuck to the hull?with air >> >>>>> channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what >> >>>>> batteries youare using, but the new battery technologies on the >> >>>>> way will make energyexpenditure less of an issue!Do you have all >> >>>>> 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see any?air >> >>>>> coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up >> >>>>> too muchwhen exhausting.Cheers Alan >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >> >>>>> On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >> >>>>> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs >> >>>>> Regatta.? The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug >> >>>>> 3??https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw?and the second is >> >>>>> a night dive in front of Doug's house??https://www.youtube. >> >>>>> com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI.? Alec is working on a more comprehensive >> >>>>> video of the Regatta. >> >>>>> Regards >> >>>>> Cliff >> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via >> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the >> >>>>> 4-day >> >>>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >> >>>>> 1-3). >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >> >>>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was >> >>>>> unfortunate >> >>>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >> >>>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >> >>>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic >> >>>>> diving. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >> >>>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation >> >>>>> diver >> >>>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >> >>>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >> >>>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have >> >>>>> chatted >> >>>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >> >>>>> tow line and helped with comms. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >> >>>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >> >>>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >> >>>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >> >>>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >> >>>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >> >>>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >> >>>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned >> >>>>> more >> >>>>> than I can remember last week. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >> >>>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >> >>>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >> >>>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >> >>>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >> >>>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though >> >>>>> we did >> >>>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot >> >>>>> about >> >>>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point >> >>>>> the tow >> >>>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >> >>>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio >> >>>>> to OTS >> >>>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >> >>>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >> >>>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >> >>>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent >> >>>>> about >> >>>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >> >>>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >> >>>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >> >>>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >> >>>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I >> >>>>> think >> >>>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >> >>>>> accomplishment with the mission. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >> >>>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >> >>>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >> >>>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >> >>>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >> >>>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >> >>>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >> >>>>> sub to track straight). >> >>>>> >> >>>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >> >>>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like >> >>>>> this >> >>>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >> >>>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >> >>>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >> >>>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >> >>>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >> >>>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >> >>>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or >> >>>>> g >> >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >>>>> >> >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- >> >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> >>>>> URL: >> >>>>> > >>>>> > >> >>>>> >> >>>>> ------------------------------ >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Subject: Digest Footer >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >>>>> >> >>>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> ------------------------------ >> >>>>> >> >>>>> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 >> >>>>> ***************************************************** >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >>>>> >> >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >>>> >> >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog >> >> Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog >> >> Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 >> >> Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc >> >> Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> >> -- >> Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog >> Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog >> Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 >> Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc >> Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 34 >> ***************************************************** > > > > -- > -River J. Dolfi > > 412-997-2526 > rdolfi7 at gmail.com > rwd5301 at psu.edu > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 10 00:59:19 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 21:59:19 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Message-ID: <20170809215919.863DBEBE@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 10 15:07:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 14:07:53 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: <15dc9ea94e7-6721-b4fc@webprd-a71.mail.aol.com> References: <048b01d31097$fcdf6000$f69e2000$@gmail.com> <15dc9ea94e7-6721-b4fc@webprd-a71.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the feedback Vance. There is a lot of good advise in your email on towing subs gained from many years of experience. We missed you. We did discuss using a sea anchor but did not have the material on site to make one. I am happy with the thruster arrangement. It is now easy to rotate in place. Yes top speed is off but I am happy with trade off on better low speed maneuverability. Hope to get up to Kansas and see how you and Scott or getting on with a proper boat. Best Regards Cliff On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 9:13 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > A simpler way is to tow a drogue behind the sub. Works a treat, even in > big seas. I've surfed down the face of enough 12 to 15 footers to know, > too. We used a simple metal hoop one meter in diameter with a shallow > canvas sock, and an attachment line about 25 meters long. A single Yamaha > probably wouldn't be too happy with one that size.You'll need an attachment > point aft, of course. > > Try something a foot across, probably not more than eighteen inches. Rig > it with a 3 legged yoke about 5 times the length of your drogue diameter to > a center shackle for the tow line, and put a couple of nokalon buoys on the > line down on the working end to keep it afloat when you aren't pulling. Use > dacron line, not nylon (too stretchy) or poly (too many knots). > > As for the yawing, most people don't get this, but the secret is to > INCREASE the rate of tow. Otherwise the pull and release of tension lets > the sub ride up and then plunge, and in between times, any slack at all > lets it hunt left or right before the tow line snatches you straight again. > And then the next wave comes and the process repeats.That seemed to be your > problem coming back in. > > Practically speaking, It doesn't really make any difference if the sub > tows underwater, or partly underwater. Aquarius and the Pisces boats tow > from astern, and they take on a pretty steep angle, too. > > From the thruster positioning, I would suspect the R300 to have been a lot > more maneuverable than before, if a little slow in the process. That's a > pretty long lever. Star II had an aft pair of thrusters rigged like that, > although further apart. HURL repositioned them 1/3 of the boat length > forward and were a whole lot happier. > > Great video. I am surely sorry to have missed this trip. > > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Sent: Tue, Aug 8, 2017 6:45 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > > Hi Cliff, > Great to hear about all your experiences. Well done. > Have you considered fitting a small foil to the bow, just for towing, to > allow your sub to be towed faster and get the nose up. Pulling from lower > down would be problematic in that it would increase tendency to roll and > yaw methinks. > Cheers, > > Hugh > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org ] *On Behalf > Of *Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 August 2017 2:14 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > > Hank, I think that this is possible. Have been giving it some thought. > What I would really like is the 11.5 m long, 4.3m beam powered aluminum > catamaran sub tender that Dan Lance showed us at the Regatta. The vessel > is designed to transport and launch two Psubs with a cruising speed of > 25knots. Got to have deep pockets to built it. But can you imagine a > floating psub convention in the Bahamas or Roatan ! We would have people > stacked up wanting to attend. > > Cliff > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 7:07 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > Sounds like a great time! you are lucky that R-300 is so small. You can > build a pontoon style launch cradle that can ballast up or down. You can > transport the sub in the cradle on one trailer. You can tow the sub to > your dive site, then get in in comfort and safety. > Hank > > > On Monday, August 7, 2017, 5:51:35 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Thanks Cliff. > I am wanting to glean as much as I can from this for my build! > When you've recovered; do you think some sort of snorkel system with fresh > air flowing in would have helped? Did you cover the dome while towing? > What sort of towing speed were you getting when you weren't submerged? > How was manoeuvrability this time round? > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 8/08/2017, at 11:26 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad > for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the > best sub trip of my life! > > I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip and mailed > them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of the 2017 > Psub Regatta. > > I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key points > were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 miles > from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of 93F and > RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we ran partially > submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to see if we could get > out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The deeper dive on Aug > 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 miles from Doug's house > (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so even thought > the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it was a smooth > tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At the second dive site the > water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells. Could see > the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow back was rough. > With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster both in > the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing at > 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours. I did not > loose my cookies but it was close. > > As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with > launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing. > Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board water and > upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water. We > were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. > > More latter. > > Cliff > > > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day > sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August > 1-3). > > Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day > with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate > that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands > full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time > to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. > > List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, > River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. > > This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver > and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this > operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and > extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted > with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the > tow line and helped with comms. > > Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. > Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were > both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think > River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! > > Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of > the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for > the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always > willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like > to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more > than I can remember last week. > > Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever > kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. > > River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal > (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting > the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. > > Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to > tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We > were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did > suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about > 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow > line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that > we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS > and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the > bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! > His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did > it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about > an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, > testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff > surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 > / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water > flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think > we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great > accomplishment with the mission. > > A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow > equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat > REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so > much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to > be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel > and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then > jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and > sub to track straight). > > The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves > everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this > is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, > one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can > carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow > out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support > vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of > logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend > its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 10 15:54:25 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 14:54:25 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: <20170809215919.863DBEBE@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20170809215919.863DBEBE@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian due to the low freeboard, for safety reasons NOP is to never open the hatch at sea. Best Regards Cliff On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 11:59 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > Would it have been possible to enter the sub once you where at > the dive site. Just tow it out there unmanned? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 16:03:45 -0500 > > Lights performed great! These 5K lumen lights are very bright. I have > four on the boat two pointing forward and two to the side. The lights > would illuminate the water around the boat very nicely. Also can run the > lights indefinitely out of the water. After the night dive when the boat > was on the dock, we used the sub lights to light up all around the sub so > we could secure it for the night. I need to look at my data to see what > the measured current was for all four lights but I? know it was low . > Flood orientation worked great. At the base, I had better vis at night on > the bottom with lights than in day without. Also fish are attracted to > light. > > Best Regard > > Cliff > > On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Cliff, How did the lights perform ? > > Pete > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 8/9/17, irox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>, "Personal Submersibles General > Discussion" > Date: Wednesday, August 9, 2017, 2:10 PM > > > I'm sure you're > thinking of this as well, but dry ice, if not complete > separated from the thing it's cooling, can sometimes > infuse the object being cooled with CO2, which gets released > when the object heats up/melts again. Possibly this is > going to very minor and handled by the scrubber, but > avoiding the unnecessary introduction of CO2 into the hull > may be better (e.g. ensuring there is no CO2 transferred to > the cooling material). > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > > > Sent: Aug 9, 2017 11:16 AM > > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada > Trip Report... > > > > Thanks > James. I know on the first Psub convention in Islamorada > four years ago, Snoopy was towed out with bags of ice for > cooling. I like the idea of using the dry ice to super > cool the water. I will have to give this some > thought. > Regards > Cliff > On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at > 10:46 AM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote: > Hi > Cliff, > Congrats > on your dives. Sub really looks great in those > videos. > With > regards to an AC solution, one low tech method would be to > blow air across ice in a small cooler. Water ice can be > super cooled with Dry Ice the night before. Dry ice is about > - 100 F and water ice cooled to this temperature should stay > cold for quite some time. > Greg C > From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion org> > Sent: Wednesday, August > 9, 2017 9:05 AM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > > > Footage > from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on > viewport. I used Dove soap on the viewport interior prior > to taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and > duration of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did > not have more soap on board. The other issue is I only had > two hand towels on board and these became soaked with > sweat. As such, they were not good for cleaning the > condensation off after the two hour tow to the dive site. > Action items: Have small bottle of Dove soap on board and > more towels for future long duration dives. > Yes, > I have been reading up on peltier coolers. I have quite a > bit of battery capacity so this could work. Unfortunately, > mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic > foam under the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a > cool surface to mount on. I do have a pair of plugged off > ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to > cooling water source if I installed a small pump on this > circuit. Pushing this water through a small fin-fan cooler > like you would see on water cooled motorcycle would help > with the temperature some what but not humidity. At > Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the > dive was about 87F so this would not have helped all that > much. A small DC AC system that controlled both > temperature and humidity would be better. > On > the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very > happy with how this worked. I have all four of my > thrusters connected to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold > into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator (thanks > Hugh) under the cover just aft of the pilot. I was not > sure if a single regulator would work or if I would need one > for each thruster but it looks like one was adequate. I > have had two deep dives with the arrangement, one to 155 ft > and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water in the > thrusters. > Best > Regards > Cliff > On > Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > org> wrote: > Thanks > Cliff,I > presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is > the entr?e!Nice > & clear, you must have been pretty happy down > there!After > you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier > elements &air > conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% > the efficiency of > a normal compression cycle system, but are really small > & by reversingthe > polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements > stuck to the hull with > air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure > what batteries youare > using, but the new battery technologies on the way will make > energyexpenditure > less of an issue!Do > you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? > Couldn't see any air > coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't > building up too muchwhen > exhausting.Cheers > Alan > > > Sent from my > iPad > On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, > Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from > 2017 Psubs Regatta. The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles > offshore on Aug 3 https://www.youtube.com/ > watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw and the second is a night > dive in front of Doug's house https://www.youtube. > com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI. Alec is working on a > more comprehensive video of the > Regatta. > Regards > Cliff > On > Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > Greetings > PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the > 4-day > > sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July > 31st, August > > 1-3). > > > > Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / > setup day > > with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was > unfortunate > > that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had > our hands > > full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had > enough time > > to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some > basic diving. > > > > List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick > Maxwell, > > River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. > > > > This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) > saturation diver > > and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us > on this > > operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his > knowledge and > > extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to > have chatted > > with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan > manned the > > tow line and helped with comms. > > > > Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog > men. > > Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. > they were > > both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). > I think > > River took a little jelly sting for the team. What > troopers! > > > > Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick > is one of > > the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even > brought a gift for > > the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is > always > > willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone > who'd like > > to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I > learned more > > than I can remember last week. > > > > Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing > whatever > > kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the > R-300. > > > > River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in > the canal > > (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment > was getting > > the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. > > > > Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp > Yamaha) was able to > > tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about > 4mph). We > > were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, > though we did > > suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a > spot about > > 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that > point the tow > > line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we > decided that > > we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine > radio to OTS > > and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff > neared the > > bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from > the Whaler! > > His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but > wow did > > it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff > spent about > > an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and > maneuvering about, > > testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the > time Cliff > > surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time > stood at 4.5 > > / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the > water > > flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon > returning I think > > we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt > great > > accomplishment with the mission. > > > > A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need > better tow > > equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). > Our boat > > REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into > waves isn't so > > much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line > needs to > > be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow > vessel > > and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking > and then > > jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for > boat and > > sub to track straight). > > > > The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and > the waves > > everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation > like this > > is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for > sure. At dinner, > > one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel > that can > > carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time > consuming tow > > out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his > support > > vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in > terms of > > logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan > will lend > > its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or > g > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l > istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > ______________________________ > _________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > ______________________________ > _________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 10 17:07:37 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 21:07:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma's diesel engine References: <867125862.45386.1502399257281.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <867125862.45386.1502399257281@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,I have just purchased a 6 hp diesel for Gamma. ?The plan is to use the original prop assembly that can jettison. ?The only thing I am not sure of is will I have cavitation problems. ?The prop will be about 12 inches from the occupant sphere, mounted in the centre of the sphere (equator) ?Will I have to put a spacer between the sphere and prop assembly to move it further away?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 10 17:43:18 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 09:43:18 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: <20170809215919.863DBEBE@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: <020101d31221$b0673190$113594b0$@gmail.com> Cliff, Have you ever thought of getting a soft bottom inflatable dinghy and get a zip sewn/glued into the bottom about 6? diameter larger than your hatch then cut out a hole about the size of your hatch inside the zip circle and sew / glue a small skirt about 20? long onto that diameter. SS Band it to under your hatch then you have a method of getting in or out in a bit of a swell. The 20? skirt would allow the dinghy to rise and fall with the waves. Could all be done for very low cost with a surplus dinghy off Ebay. Just a thought. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 11 August 2017 7:54 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Brian due to the low freeboard, for safety reasons NOP is to never open the hatch at sea. Best Regards Cliff On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 11:59 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, Would it have been possible to enter the sub once you where at the dive site. Just tow it out there unmanned? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 16:03:45 -0500 Lights performed great! These 5K lumen lights are very bright. I have four on the boat two pointing forward and two to the side. The lights would illuminate the water around the boat very nicely. Also can run the lights indefinitely out of the water. After the night dive when the boat was on the dock, we used the sub lights to light up all around the sub so we could secure it for the night. I need to look at my data to see what the measured current was for all four lights but I? know it was low . Flood orientation worked great. At the base, I had better vis at night on the bottom with lights than in day without. Also fish are attracted to light. Best Regard Cliff On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, How did the lights perform ? Pete -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 8/9/17, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" , "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Wednesday, August 9, 2017, 2:10 PM I'm sure you're thinking of this as well, but dry ice, if not complete separated from the thing it's cooling, can sometimes infuse the object being cooled with CO2, which gets released when the object heats up/melts again. Possibly this is going to very minor and handled by the scrubber, but avoiding the unnecessary introduction of CO2 into the hull may be better (e.g. ensuring there is no CO2 transferred to the cooling material). -----Original Message----- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Aug 9, 2017 11:16 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Thanks James. I know on the first Psub convention in Islamorada four years ago, Snoopy was towed out with bags of ice for cooling. I like the idea of using the dry ice to super cool the water. I will have to give this some thought. Regards Cliff On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 10:46 AM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, Congrats on your dives. Sub really looks great in those videos. With regards to an AC solution, one low tech method would be to blow air across ice in a small cooler. Water ice can be super cooled with Dry Ice the night before. Dry ice is about - 100 F and water ice cooled to this temperature should stay cold for quite some time. Greg C From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles org> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on viewport. I used Dove soap on the viewport interior prior to taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board. The other issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became soaked with sweat. As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation off after the two hour tow to the dive site. Action items: Have small bottle of Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives. Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers. I have quite a bit of battery capacity so this could work. Unfortunately, mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a cool surface to mount on. I do have a pair of plugged off ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to cooling water source if I installed a small pump on this circuit. Pushing this water through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on water cooled motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not humidity. At Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive was about 87F so this would not have helped all that much. A small DC AC system that controlled both temperature and humidity would be better. On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy with how this worked. I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator (thanks Hugh) under the cover just aft of the pilot. I was not sure if a single regulator would work or if I would need one for each thruster but it looks like one was adequate. I have had two deep dives with the arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water in the thrusters. Best Regards Cliff On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: Thanks Cliff,I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e!Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there!After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier elements &air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the efficiency of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by reversingthe polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements stuck to the hull with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what batteries youare using, but the new battery technologies on the way will make energyexpenditure less of an issue!Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see any air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up too muchwhen exhausting.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta. The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3 https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw and the second is a night dive in front of Doug's house https://www.youtube. com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI. Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. Regards Cliff On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August 1-3). Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the tow line and helped with comms. Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more than I can remember last week. Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great accomplishment with the mission. A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and sub to track straight). The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles Virus-free. www.avast.com ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 10 17:45:26 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 09:45:26 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: <20170809215919.863DBEBE@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: <020601d31221$fc66e9a0$f534bce0$@gmail.com> Amend that. Zip needs to be closer to the hatch. Band it can be taken off for other operation. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 11 August 2017 7:54 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Brian due to the low freeboard, for safety reasons NOP is to never open the hatch at sea. Best Regards Cliff On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 11:59 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, Would it have been possible to enter the sub once you where at the dive site. Just tow it out there unmanned? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 16:03:45 -0500 Lights performed great! These 5K lumen lights are very bright. I have four on the boat two pointing forward and two to the side. The lights would illuminate the water around the boat very nicely. Also can run the lights indefinitely out of the water. After the night dive when the boat was on the dock, we used the sub lights to light up all around the sub so we could secure it for the night. I need to look at my data to see what the measured current was for all four lights but I? know it was low . Flood orientation worked great. At the base, I had better vis at night on the bottom with lights than in day without. Also fish are attracted to light. Best Regard Cliff On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, How did the lights perform ? Pete -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 8/9/17, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" , "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Wednesday, August 9, 2017, 2:10 PM I'm sure you're thinking of this as well, but dry ice, if not complete separated from the thing it's cooling, can sometimes infuse the object being cooled with CO2, which gets released when the object heats up/melts again. Possibly this is going to very minor and handled by the scrubber, but avoiding the unnecessary introduction of CO2 into the hull may be better (e.g. ensuring there is no CO2 transferred to the cooling material). -----Original Message----- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Aug 9, 2017 11:16 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Thanks James. I know on the first Psub convention in Islamorada four years ago, Snoopy was towed out with bags of ice for cooling. I like the idea of using the dry ice to super cool the water. I will have to give this some thought. Regards Cliff On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 10:46 AM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, Congrats on your dives. Sub really looks great in those videos. With regards to an AC solution, one low tech method would be to blow air across ice in a small cooler. Water ice can be super cooled with Dry Ice the night before. Dry ice is about - 100 F and water ice cooled to this temperature should stay cold for quite some time. Greg C From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles org> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on viewport. I used Dove soap on the viewport interior prior to taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board. The other issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became soaked with sweat. As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation off after the two hour tow to the dive site. Action items: Have small bottle of Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives. Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers. I have quite a bit of battery capacity so this could work. Unfortunately, mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a cool surface to mount on. I do have a pair of plugged off ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to cooling water source if I installed a small pump on this circuit. Pushing this water through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on water cooled motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not humidity. At Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive was about 87F so this would not have helped all that much. A small DC AC system that controlled both temperature and humidity would be better. On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy with how this worked. I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator (thanks Hugh) under the cover just aft of the pilot. I was not sure if a single regulator would work or if I would need one for each thruster but it looks like one was adequate. I have had two deep dives with the arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water in the thrusters. Best Regards Cliff On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: Thanks Cliff,I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e!Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there!After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier elements &air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the efficiency of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by reversingthe polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements stuck to the hull with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what batteries youare using, but the new battery technologies on the way will make energyexpenditure less of an issue!Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see any air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up too muchwhen exhausting.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta. The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3 https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw and the second is a night dive in front of Doug's house https://www.youtube. com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI. Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. Regards Cliff On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August 1-3). Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the tow line and helped with comms. Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more than I can remember last week. Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great accomplishment with the mission. A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and sub to track straight). The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles Virus-free. www.avast.com ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 10 18:35:30 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 15:35:30 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Message-ID: <20170810153530.86187422@m0117566.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 10 19:24:13 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 23:24:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 References: <1630151619.1815330.1502407453782.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1630151619.1815330.1502407453782@mail.yahoo.com> Melbourne ? Try Minnesota. -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 8/9/17, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Wednesday, August 9, 2017, 8:09 PM Hi Steve,ideally a normal air conditioner would be better for cooling, but you have to get rid of?it's heat somehow. I am not sure how the expensive submersibles do it! Maybe there?is a through hull to an external heat exchanger. They are also noisy, bulky & I could bewrong but I believe G.L. have issues with the gas they use! If the peltier was 25% asefficient as a compression unit, & needed 4 x the power, then that might mean havinganother battery to drive it. The bulk & expense of the battery may even out the cost& size comparison of the two options. This would be interesting to research!I saw a couple of articles that said the Peltier was up there in efficiency with?resistive heating. They are used in climate control modules in both their heating &cooling functions, & I like this option for a submersible where you can go from one?extreme of temperature to another! ( like Melbourne)Cheers Alanp.s. my daughter loves it in Melbourne she has been there 4 years now! Sent from my iPad On 10/08/2017, at 12:14 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan,Resistive heating being about as close as you can get to 100%, I would be sceptical about that. I've experimented with Peltier modules for gas cooling and they were quite disappointing in performance, although wonderfully simple in operation. Cheers,Steve On 10 Aug 2017 8:33 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Just did some Googling on the Peltier as a heater.In an experiment I saw it was more efficient than resistive heating!This depends to an extent on the ambient heat differential.?I would imagine you would need to attach them to the hull & surround themwith an insulating material to stop the metal of the hull radiating backthe cold or heat produced, & force it to transfer it all to the water.Another bunny trail to investigate.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 10/08/2017, at 9:18 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Mike,the peltier is only 1/4 to 1/3 as efficient as a compressor system, but Cliff& I have very little spare room. They serve as heaters by reversing polarity.I am not sure of their efficiency as heaters compared with resistive coils;probably poor!? Cliff would have to cut a hole in his fibreglass outer & dig backthe syntactic foam to the pressure hull to get cooling on the reverse side ofthe peltier or compressor air conditioning unit. Could look sexy if he put someshark gills in it for water ingress.Cliff didn't have a cover on the dome, & that would let a lot of heat in.We had a wet towel on Snoopy last time at Islamorada.Have heard that people like Nuytco use a shore based air conditioner to coolthe sub down prior to a dive; but I don't know how long that benefit wouldlast being towed out that distance.Cheers Alan? Sent from my iPad On 10/08/2017, at 6:25 AM, peaceroom via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Reference,summer submarine cooling. A scaled down version of the small cooler with ice and DC fan, similar to the one in Sportys, aviation supplies is what a lot of planes use. Just an inexpensive idea. Peltier coolers provide very little cooling versus DC current used. Mike Patterson? Sent from my Samsung device -------- Original message -------- From: via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/9/17 11:46 AM (GMT-05:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs. org Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to personal_submersibles at psubs. org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to personal_submersibles-request@ psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at personal_submersibles-owner@ psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: ?? 1. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... ????? (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) ?? 2. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... ????? (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ---------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 08:03:07 -0500 From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on viewport.? I used Dove soap on the viewport interior prior to taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board.? The other issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became soaked with sweat.? As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation off after the two hour tow to the dive site.? Action items:? Have small bottle of Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives. Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers.? I have quite a bit of battery capacity so this could work.? Unfortunately, mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a cool surface to mount on.? I do have a pair of plugged off ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to cooling water source if I installed a small pump on this circuit.? Pushing this water through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on water cooled motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not humidity.?? At Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive was about 87F so this would not have helped all that much.? A small DC AC system that controlled both temperature and humidity would be better. On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy with how this worked.? I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator (thanks Hugh)? under the cover just aft of the pilot. I was not sure if a single regulator would work or if I would need one for each thruster but it looks like one was adequate.? I have had two deep dives with the arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water in the thrusters. Best Regards Cliff On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote: > Thanks Cliff, > I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e! > Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there! > After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier elements & > air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the > efficiency > of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by reversing > the polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements stuck to > the hull > with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what > batteries you > are using, but the new battery technologies on the way will make energy > expenditure less of an issue! > Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see > any > air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up too > much > when exhausting. > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote: > > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta.? The > first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3 > https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=sHqL49V0lMw and the second is a night > dive in front of Doug's house? https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=KDBw1ZOdKaI. > Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. > > Regards > > Cliff > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote: > >> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >> 1-3). >> >> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >> >> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >> >> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >> tow line and helped with comms. >> >> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >> >> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >> than I can remember last week. >> >> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >> >> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >> >> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >> accomplishment with the mission. >> >> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >> sub to track straight). >> >> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 15:46:22 +0000 (UTC) From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Message-ID: <1907666847.421009. 1502293582178 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Cliff, Congrats on your dives. Sub really looks great in those videos. With regards to an AC solution, one low tech method would be to blow air across ice in a small cooler. Water ice can be super cooled with Dry Ice the night before. Dry ice is about - 100 F and water ice cooled to this temperature should stay cold for quite some time. Greg C????? From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... ?? Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on viewport.? I used Dove soap on the viewport interior?prior to taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board.? The other issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became soaked with sweat.? As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation off?after the two hour tow to the dive site.? Action items:? Have small bottle of Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives.? Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers.? I have quite a bit of battery capacity so this could work.? Unfortunately, mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a cool surface to mount on.? I do have a pair of plugged off ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to cooling water source if I installed a small pump on this circuit.? Pushing this water through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on?water cooled motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not?humidity.? ?At Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive was about 87F so this would not have helped all that much.? A small DC AC system that controlled both temperature and humidity would be better. On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy with how this worked.? I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator (thanks Hugh) ?under the cover just aft of the pilot.?I was not sure if a single regulator would work or if I would need one for each thruster but it looks like one was adequate.? I have had two deep dives with the arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water in the thrusters. Best Regards Cliff On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff,I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e!Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there!After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier elements &air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the efficiency?of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by reversingthe polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements stuck to the hull?with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what batteries youare using, but the new battery technologies on the way will make energyexpenditure less of an issue!Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see any?air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up too muchwhen exhausting.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta.? The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3??https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw?and the second is a night dive in front of Doug's house??https://www.youtube. com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI.? Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta. Regards Cliff On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August 1-3). Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the tow line and helped with comms. Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more than I can remember last week. Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great accomplishment with the mission. A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and sub to track straight). The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ?? |? | Virus-free. www.avast.com? | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 ****************************** *********************** ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 10 19:39:28 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:39:28 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 In-Reply-To: <1630151619.1815330.1502407453782@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1630151619.1815330.1502407453782.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1630151619.1815330.1502407453782@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0E307E85-AFF4-460D-81FB-EE790D318FF1@snyderemail.com> Pete! Are you in Minnesota? Me too. Minnetrista and Duluth. > On Aug 10, 2017, at 6:24 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Melbourne ? Try Minnesota. > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 8/9/17, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Date: Wednesday, August 9, 2017, 8:09 PM > > Hi > Steve,ideally a normal air > conditioner would be better for cooling, but you have to get > rid of it's heat somehow. > I am not sure how the expensive submersibles do it! Maybe > there is a > through hull to an external heat exchanger. They are also > noisy, bulky & I could bewrong but I believe > G.L. have issues with the gas they use! If the peltier was > 25% asefficient as a > compression unit, & needed 4 x the power, then that > might mean havinganother battery to > drive it. The bulk & expense of the battery may even out > the cost& size comparison > of the two options. This would be interesting to > research!I > saw a couple of articles that said the Peltier was up there > in efficiency with resistive heating. They > are used in climate control modules in both their heating > &cooling > functions, & I like this option for a submersible where > you can go from one extreme of temperature > to another! ( like Melbourne)Cheers Alanp.s. my daughter loves > it in Melbourne she has been there 4 years now! > > > > Sent > from my iPad > On > 10/08/2017, at 12:14 PM, Stephen Fordyce via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Hi Alan,Resistive heating being > about as close as you can get to 100%, I would be sceptical > about that. I've experimented with Peltier modules for > gas cooling and they were quite disappointing in > performance, although wonderfully simple in > operation. > Cheers,Steve > On 10 Aug 2017 8:33 am, > "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" > wrote: > Just did some Googling on > the Peltier as a heater.In > an experiment I saw it was more efficient than resistive > heating!This > depends to an extent on the ambient heat > differential. I > would imagine you would need to attach them to the hull > & surround themwith > an insulating material to stop the metal of the hull > radiating backthe > cold or heat produced, & force it to transfer it all to > the water.Another > bunny trail to investigate.Cheers > Alan > > Sent from my > iPad > On 10/08/2017, at 9:18 AM, > Alan via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > Mike,the peltier is only > 1/4 to 1/3 as efficient as a compressor system, but > Cliff& I have very little spare room. They > serve as heaters by reversing polarity.I am not > sure of their efficiency as heaters compared with resistive > coils;probably poor! Cliff would have to cut a > hole in his fibreglass outer & dig backthe > syntactic foam to the pressure hull to get cooling on the > reverse side ofthe peltier or compressor air > conditioning unit. Could look sexy if he put > someshark gills in it for water > ingress.Cliff didn't have a cover on the > dome, & that would let a lot of heat in.We > had a wet towel on Snoopy last time at > Islamorada.Have heard that people like Nuytco use > a shore based air conditioner to coolthe sub down > prior to a dive; but I don't know how long that benefit > wouldlast being towed out that > distance.Cheers Alan > > Sent from my > iPad > On 10/08/2017, at 6:25 > AM, peaceroom via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > > > Reference,summer submarine cooling. A scaled down > version of the small cooler with ice and DC fan, similar to > the one in Sportys, aviation supplies is what a lot of > planes use. Just an inexpensive idea. Peltier coolers > provide very little cooling versus DC current used. Mike > Patterson > > > Sent from my Samsung > device > > -------- > Original message -------- > From: via > Personal_Submersibles org> > Date: 8/9/17 11:46 AM > (GMT-05:00) > To: personal_submersibles at psubs. > org > Subject: Personal_Submersibles > Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 > > Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list > submissions to > personal_submersibles at psubs. > org > > To subscribe or > unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > or, > via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > personal_submersibles-request@ > psubs.org > > You can reach > the person managing the list at > personal_submersibles-owner@ > psubs.org > > When > replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific > than "Re: Contents of > Personal_Submersibles digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Islamorada Trip > Report... > (Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles) > 2. Re: > Islamorada Trip Report... > (james > cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) > > > ------------------------------ > ------------------------------ ---------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 08:03:07 -0500 > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > org> > To: Personal Submersibles > General Discussion > org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] > Islamorada Trip Report... > Message-ID: > 6x2d9fKdaCW1uND2psz=ncVoQ9cg@ mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="utf-8" > > Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due > to condensation on > viewport. I used Dove > soap on the viewport interior prior to taking off > but because of the humidity , temperature and > duration of the dive, this > treatment did not > last and I did not have more soap on board. The other > issue is I only had two hand towels on board > and these became soaked with > sweat. As > such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation off > after > the two hour tow to the dive site. > Action items: Have small bottle of > Dove > soap on board and more towels for future long duration > dives. > > Yes, I have been > reading up on peltier coolers. I have quite a bit of > battery capacity so this could work. > Unfortunately, mounting on hull won't > work for me as I have syntactic foam under the > FRP shell over the hull so I > don't have > a cool surface to mount on. I do have a pair of plugged > off > ports on the bottom of the boat that > would give me access to cooling water > source > if I installed a small pump on this circuit. Pushing this > water > through a small fin-fan cooler like > you would see on water cooled > motorcycle > would help with the temperature some what but not > humidity. At > Islamorada, the average > water temperature at the time of the dive was about > 87F so this would not have helped all that > much. A small DC AC system that > controlled > both temperature and humidity would be better. > > On the thruster pneumatic > pressure compensation, I was very happy with how > this worked. I have all four of my thrusters > connected to 1/4" SS tubing > that is > manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving > regulator > (thanks Hugh) under the cover > just aft of the pilot. I was not sure if a > single regulator would work or if I would need > one for each thruster but it > looks like one > was adequate. I have had two deep dives with the > arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft > and have had no issues with > water in the > thrusters. > > Best Regards > > Cliff > > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs. > org> wrote: > >> > Thanks Cliff, >> I presume you shot some > footage from your sub & this is the entr?e! >> Nice & clear, you must have been > pretty happy down there! >> After you > mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier elements > & >> air conditioning units. The > peltier conditioners have only 25% the >> > efficiency >> of a normal compression > cycle system, but are really small & by reversing >> the polarity can act as heaters. A few of > those peltier elements stuck to >> the > hull >> with air channelled past them > might be the way to go! Not sure what >> > batteries you >> are using, but the new > battery technologies on the way will make energy >> expenditure less of an issue! >> Do you have all 4 motors exhausting > through one regulator? Couldn't see >> > any >> air coming out of the motor seals > so the pressure isn't building up too >> much >> when > exhausting. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 > AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs. > org> wrote: >> >> > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs > Regatta. The >> first is the 100 ft dive > 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3 >> https://www.youtube.com/watch? > v=sHqL49V0lMw and the second is a night >> dive in front of Doug's house https://www.youtube.com/watch? > v=KDBw1ZOdKaI. >> Alec is working on a > more comprehensive video of the Regatta. >> >> Regards >> >> Cliff >> >> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 > at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs. > org> wrote: >> >>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr > here to share my take on the 4-day >>> > sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July > 31st, August >>> 1-3). >>> >>> Wow, what a > whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>> with August 1-3 being true operational > days. Though it was unfortunate >>> > that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had > our hands >>> full with Cliff's > R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into > the canal for some basic diving. >>> >>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve > McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>> > River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>> >>> This was my > first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation > diver >>> and commercial welder. What a > pleasure to have him join us on this >>> operation. Dan is modest, but most > willing to share his knowledge and >>> > extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to > have chatted >>> with him in the Keys. > During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>> tow line and helped with comms. >>> >>> Steve McQueen > and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit > and tow lines, etc. they were >>> both > in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I > think >>> River took a little jelly > sting for the team. What troopers! >>> >>> Cliff and his > assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>> the friendliest people you'll ever > meet (and even brought a gift for >>> > the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is > always >>> willing to share his > expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>> to learn more. I know that between Dan > Lance and Cliff, I learned more >>> > than I can remember last week. >>> >>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself > were all just providing whatever >>> > kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the > R-300. >>> >>> > River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in > the canal >>> (which was great), but I > think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>> the R-300 out a ways into the > ocean. >>> >>> Our > Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) > was able to >>> tow the R-300 out about > 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>> were in radio communication with Cliff > most of the time, though we did >>> > suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a > spot about >>> 100 feet deep, we > started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) > let loose(!) so we decided that >>> we > had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio > to OTS >>> and Cliff started down. > Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still > quite visible from the Whaler! >>> His > 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow > did >>> it ever stand out from the rest > of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >>> an hour "flying" his sub, > surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>> testing systems and observing the > ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>> > surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time > stood at 4.5 >>> / 5 hours (estimate). > Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch > while in tow. Upon returning I think >>> we were all ready to take a break, but > everyone felt great >>> accomplishment > with the mission. >>> >>> A couple of lessons I took away from > the tow out: We need better tow >>> > equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). > Our boat >>> REALLY needs a GPS (still > don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>> much a problem, but when towing with > the waves, our tow line needs to >>> be > measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow > vessel >>> and sub (otherwise the sub > and boat are constantly slacking and then >>> jerking, stressing the tow line and > making it difficult for boat and >>> > sub to track straight). >>> >>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, > even in the heat and the waves >>> > everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation > like this >>> is more work / effort > than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>> one of the main discussions revolved > around a support vessel that can >>> > carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time > consuming tow >>> out to an ocean dive > site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>> vessel project, which is no doubt > going to be a dream in terms of >>> > logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan > will lend >>> its services to host a > diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>> >>> ______________________________ > _________________ >>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >> >> ______________________________ > _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> > ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: pipermail/personal_ submersibles/attachments/ > 20170809/ea2b1476/attachment- 0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 15:46:22 +0000 (UTC) > From: james cottrell via > Personal_Submersibles > org> > To: Personal Submersibles > General Discussion > org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] > Islamorada Trip Report... > Message-ID: <1907666847.421009. > 1502293582178 at mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="utf-8" > > Hi Cliff, > Congrats on your > dives. Sub really looks great in those videos. > With regards to an AC solution, one low tech > method would be to blow air across ice in a small cooler. > Water ice can be super cooled with Dry Ice the night before. > Dry ice is about - 100 F and water ice cooled to this > temperature should stay cold for quite some time. > Greg C From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles > General Discussion org> > Sent: Wednesday, August 9, > 2017 9:05 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] > Islamorada Trip Report... > > Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due > to condensation on viewport.? I used Dove soap on the > viewport interior?prior to taking off but because of the > humidity , temperature and duration of the dive, this > treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on > board.? The other issue is I only had two hand towels on > board and these became soaked with sweat.? As such, they > were not good for cleaning the condensation off?after the > two hour tow to the dive site.? Action items:? Have small > bottle of Dove soap on board and more towels for future long > duration dives.? > Yes, I have been reading > up on peltier coolers.? I have quite a bit of battery > capacity so this could work.? Unfortunately, mounting on > hull won't work for me as I have syntactic foam under > the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a cool > surface to mount on.? I do have a pair of plugged off ports > on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to > cooling water source if I installed a small pump on this > circuit.? Pushing this water through a small fin-fan cooler > like you would see on?water cooled motorcycle would help > with the temperature some what but not?humidity.? ?At > Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the > dive was about 87F so this would not have helped all that > much.? A small DC AC system that controlled both temperature > and humidity would be better. > On the > thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy > with how this worked.? I have all four of my thrusters > connected to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold into a > single pressure reducing/relieving regulator (thanks Hugh) > ?under the cover just aft of the pilot.?I was not sure if a > single regulator would work or if I would need one for each > thruster but it looks like one was adequate.? I have had two > deep dives with the arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to > 100 ft and have had no issues with water in the > thrusters. > Best Regards > Cliff > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at > 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > Thanks > Cliff,I presume you shot some footage from your sub & > this is the entr?e!Nice & clear, you must have been > pretty happy down there!After you mentioned air > conditioning, I looked into peltier elements &air > conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% > the efficiency?of a normal compression cycle system, but are > really small & by reversingthe polarity can act as > heaters. A few of those peltier elements stuck to the > hull?with air channelled past them might be the way to go! > Not sure what batteries youare using, but the new battery > technologies on the way will make energyexpenditure less of > an issue!Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one > regulator? Couldn't see any?air coming out of the motor > seals so the pressure isn't building up too muchwhen > exhausting.Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > On 9/08/2017, > at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Added two > quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta.? The > first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3??https://www.youtube.com/ > watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw?and the second is a night dive in front > of Doug's house??https://www.youtube. > com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI.? Alec is working on a more > comprehensive video of the Regatta. > Regards > Cliff > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr > via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > Greetings > PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the > 4-day > sub operation we just completed in > Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August > 1-3). > > Wow, what a whirlwind! So July > 31st was really an arrival / setup day > with > August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was > unfortunate > that Alec wasn't able to > make it with Shackleton, we had our hands > full with Cliff's R-300. Without > Shackleton, we also had enough time > to get > Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic > diving. > > List of Crew: Dan > Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, > River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, > Douglas Suhr. > > This was my > first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation > diver > and commercial welder. What a pleasure > to have him join us on this > operation. Dan > is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and > extensive experience with a newbie like me. So > pleased to have chatted > with him in the > Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the > tow line and helped with comms. > > Steve McQueen and River Dolfi > did awesome jobs as our frog men. > Filming, > attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were > both in and out of the water quite a bit > (especially Steve). I think > River took a > little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! > > Cliff and his assistant Rick > are such a joy be around. Rick is one of > the > friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a > gift for > the group: a watermelon, straight > from Texas!). Cliff is always > willing to > share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd > like > to learn more. I know that between Dan > Lance and Cliff, I learned more > than I can > remember last week. > > Mike > Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing > whatever > kind of "troop support" > we could to Cliff and the R-300. > > River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time > on Snoopy in the canal > (which was great), > but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting > the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. > > Our Boston Whaler (a 25' > boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to > tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean > (at about 4mph). We > were in radio > communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did > suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When > we got to a spot about > 100 feet deep, we > started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow > line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let > loose(!) so we decided that > we had reached > our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS > and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! > As Cliff neared the > bottom at 100 ? 110 > feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! > His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 > inches long, but wow did > it ever stand out > from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about > an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, > diving and maneuvering about, > testing > systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time > Cliff > surfaced and we towed back to port > Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 > / 5 hours > (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water > flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in > tow. Upon returning I think > we were all > ready to take a break, but everyone felt great > accomplishment with the mission. > > A couple of lessons I took > away from the tow out: We need better tow > equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a > quick release). Our boat > REALLY needs a GPS > (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't > so > much a problem, but when towing with the > waves, our tow line needs to > be measured so > as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel > and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are > constantly slacking and then > jerking, > stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat > and > sub to track straight). > > The devotion of our crew was > amazing, even in the heat and the waves > everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small > sub operation like this > is more work / > effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At > dinner, > one of the main discussions revolved > around a support vessel that can > carry a sub > or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow > out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared > details on his support > vessel project, which > is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of > logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready > to sail, Dan will lend > its services to host > a diving event! ~ Douglas S. > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or > g > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l > istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | > > -------------- next part > -------------- > An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... > URL: pipermail/personal_ submersibles/attachments/ > 20170809/1374ba08/attachment. html> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles > Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 > ****************************** > *********************** > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > ______________________________ > _________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 11 06:43:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 10:43:50 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 34 Message-ID: Mine is a smaller version of this. I use frozen water bottles so the melted ice water doesn't pour all over me pushing it out the hatch when done. And as Alec pointed out, cold water to drink along the way! https://youtu.be/ITtlxjvLQis Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 11 08:31:29 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 12:31:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma's diesel engine In-Reply-To: <867125862.45386.1502399257281@mail.yahoo.com> References: <867125862.45386.1502399257281.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <867125862.45386.1502399257281@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <658937188.1744829.1502454689462@mail.yahoo.com> Hank, Captain Kittredge built three diesel subs and liked them very much. He used 7-8 hp yanmar diesels with a transmission. He highly recommended using a transmission and considered reverse a necessity. Exhaust existed at the bottom of the hull just behind a makeshift "skeg" that created cavitation (vacuum to reduce back pressure).? The prop should be below center on a sub due to the low center of gravity. If you place a powerful prop as high up as the middle it will lift the stern. Greg C From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 5:14 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma's diesel engine Hi All,I have just purchased a 6 hp diesel for Gamma. ?The plan is to use the original prop assembly that can jettison. ?The only thing I am not sure of is will I have cavitation problems. ?The prop will be about 12 inches from the occupant sphere, mounted in the centre of the sphere (equator) ?Will I have to put a spacer between the sphere and prop assembly to move it further away?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 11 10:06:25 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Beram Mahmoud via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:06:25 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus Message-ID: <003201d312ab$066b4fc0$1341ef40$@gmx.de> Hello, well sad news as the UC3 Nautilus sank on a trip. Fortunately nobody was hurt. First information hinds to a fault in the ballast system. http://www.independent.ie/world-news/owner-safe-after-private-submarine-sinks-off-denmark-36021818.html http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/danes-search-missing-private-submarine-off-copenhagen-49152539 It is a fascinating hobby as long as everything works out. Best regards, Beram -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 11 11:16:29 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 11:16:29 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <003201d312ab$066b4fc0$1341ef40$@gmx.de> Message-ID: <20170811151629.0G9AA.220998.root@cdptpa-web04> Wow. So sorry to hear. Thanks for sharing. Thanks, Steve ---- Beram Mahmoud via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hello, > > > > well sad news as the UC3 Nautilus sank on a trip. Fortunately nobody was hurt. First information hinds to a fault in the ballast system. > > > > http://www.independent.ie/world-news/owner-safe-after-private-submarine-sinks-off-denmark-36021818.html > > http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/danes-search-missing-private-submarine-off-copenhagen-49152539 > > > > > > It is a fascinating hobby as long as everything works out. > > > > Best regards, > > Beram > > > > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 11 14:06:48 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 14:06:48 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <20170811151629.0G9AA.220998.root@cdptpa-web04> References: <20170811151629.0G9AA.220998.root@cdptpa-web04> Message-ID: <346CFB6E-7F5E-4B30-AF14-D884ABD37F02@gmail.com> I can't imagine how disheartening that must be. Particularly with a boat of that magnitude. Peter, I'm just glad you and your companion are safe. Best, Alec > On Aug 11, 2017, at 11:16 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Wow. So sorry to hear. Thanks for sharing. > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Beram Mahmoud via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hello, >> >> >> >> well sad news as the UC3 Nautilus sank on a trip. Fortunately nobody was hurt. First information hinds to a fault in the ballast system. >> >> >> >> http://www.independent.ie/world-news/owner-safe-after-private-submarine-sinks-off-denmark-36021818.html >> >> http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/danes-search-missing-private-submarine-off-copenhagen-49152539 >> >> >> >> >> >> It is a fascinating hobby as long as everything works out. >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Beram >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 11 17:07:01 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 21:07:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 References: <1616606798.186205.1502485621899.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1616606798.186205.1502485621899@mail.yahoo.com> West Saint Paul -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 8/10/17, Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Thursday, August 10, 2017, 6:39 PM Pete! Are you in Minnesota? Me too. Minnetrista and Duluth. > On Aug 10, 2017, at 6:24 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Melbourne ? Try Minnesota. > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 8/9/17, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Date: Wednesday, August 9, 2017, 8:09 PM > > Hi > Steve,ideally a normal air > conditioner would be better for cooling, but you have to get > rid of it's heat somehow. > I am not sure how the expensive submersibles do it! Maybe > there is a > through hull to an external heat exchanger. They are also > noisy, bulky & I could bewrong but I believe > G.L. have issues with the gas they use! If the peltier was > 25% asefficient as a > compression unit, & needed 4 x the power, then that > might mean havinganother battery to > drive it. The bulk & expense of the battery may even out > the cost& size comparison > of the two options. This would be interesting to > research!I > saw a couple of articles that said the Peltier was up there > in efficiency with resistive heating. They > are used in climate control modules in both their heating > &cooling > functions, & I like this option for a submersible where > you can go from one extreme of temperature > to another! ( like Melbourne)Cheers Alanp.s. my daughter loves > it in Melbourne she has been there 4 years now! > > > > Sent > from my iPad > On > 10/08/2017, at 12:14 PM, Stephen Fordyce via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Hi Alan,Resistive heating being > about as close as you can get to 100%, I would be sceptical > about that. I've experimented with Peltier modules for > gas cooling and they were quite disappointing in > performance, although wonderfully simple in > operation. > Cheers,Steve > On 10 Aug 2017 8:33 am, > "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" > wrote: > Just did some Googling on > the Peltier as a heater.In > an experiment I saw it was more efficient than resistive > heating!This > depends to an extent on the ambient heat > differential. I > would imagine you would need to attach them to the hull > & surround themwith > an insulating material to stop the metal of the hull > radiating backthe > cold or heat produced, & force it to transfer it all to > the water.Another > bunny trail to investigate.Cheers > Alan > > Sent from my > iPad > On 10/08/2017, at 9:18 AM, > Alan via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > Mike,the peltier is only > 1/4 to 1/3 as efficient as a compressor system, but > Cliff& I have very little spare room. They > serve as heaters by reversing polarity.I am not > sure of their efficiency as heaters compared with resistive > coils;probably poor!? Cliff would have to cut a > hole in his fibreglass outer & dig backthe > syntactic foam to the pressure hull to get cooling on the > reverse side ofthe peltier or compressor air > conditioning unit. Could look sexy if he put > someshark gills in it for water > ingress.Cliff didn't have a cover on the > dome, & that would let a lot of heat in.We > had a wet towel on Snoopy last time at > Islamorada.Have heard that people like Nuytco use > a shore based air conditioner to coolthe sub down > prior to a dive; but I don't know how long that benefit > wouldlast being towed out that > distance.Cheers Alan > > Sent from my > iPad > On 10/08/2017, at 6:25 > AM, peaceroom via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > > > Reference,summer submarine cooling. A scaled down > version of the small cooler with ice and DC fan, similar to > the one in Sportys, aviation supplies is what a lot of > planes use. Just an inexpensive idea. Peltier coolers > provide very little cooling versus DC current used. Mike > Patterson > > > Sent from my Samsung > device > > -------- > Original message -------- > From: via > Personal_Submersibles org> > Date: 8/9/17? 11:46 AM > (GMT-05:00) > To: personal_submersibles at psubs. > org > Subject: Personal_Submersibles > Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 > > Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list > submissions to >? ? personal_submersibles at psubs. > org > > To subscribe or > unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >? ? http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > or, > via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to >? ? personal_submersibles-request@ > psubs.org > > You can reach > the person managing the list at >? ? personal_submersibles-owner@ > psubs.org > > When > replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific > than "Re: Contents of > Personal_Submersibles digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >? ? 1. Re: Islamorada Trip > Report... >? ? ? (Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles) >? ? 2. Re: > Islamorada Trip Report... >? ? ? (james > cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) > > > ------------------------------ > ------------------------------ ---------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 08:03:07 -0500 > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >? ? org> > To: Personal Submersibles > General Discussion >? ? org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] > Islamorada Trip Report... > Message-ID: >? ? 6x2d9fKdaCW1uND2psz=ncVoQ9cg@ mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="utf-8" > > Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due > to condensation on > viewport.? I used Dove > soap on the viewport interior prior to taking off > but because of the humidity , temperature and > duration of the dive, this > treatment did not > last and I did not have more soap on board.? The other > issue is I only had two hand towels on board > and these became soaked with > sweat.? As > such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation off > after > the two hour tow to the dive site. > Action items:? Have small bottle of > Dove > soap on board and more towels for future long duration > dives. > > Yes, I have been > reading up on peltier coolers.? I have quite a bit of > battery capacity so this could work. > Unfortunately, mounting on hull won't > work for me as I have syntactic foam under the > FRP shell over the hull so I > don't have > a cool surface to mount on.? I do have a pair of plugged > off > ports on the bottom of the boat that > would give me access to cooling water > source > if I installed a small pump on this circuit.? Pushing this > water > through a small fin-fan cooler like > you would see on water cooled > motorcycle > would help with the temperature some what but not > humidity.? At > Islamorada, the average > water temperature at the time of the dive was about > 87F so this would not have helped all that > much.? A small DC AC system that > controlled > both temperature and humidity would be better. > > On the thruster pneumatic > pressure compensation, I was very happy with how > this worked.? I have all four of my thrusters > connected to 1/4" SS tubing > that is > manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving > regulator > (thanks Hugh)? under the cover > just aft of the pilot. I was not sure if a > single regulator would work or if I would need > one for each thruster but it > looks like one > was adequate.? I have had two deep dives with the > arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft > and have had no issues with > water in the > thrusters. > > Best Regards > > Cliff > > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs. > org> wrote: > >> > Thanks Cliff, >> I presume you shot some > footage from your sub & this is the entr?e! >> Nice & clear, you must have been > pretty happy down there! >> After you > mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier elements > & >> air conditioning units. The > peltier conditioners have only 25% the >> > efficiency >> of a normal compression > cycle system, but are really small & by reversing >> the polarity can act as heaters. A few of > those peltier elements stuck to >> the > hull >> with air channelled past them > might be the way to go! Not sure what >> > batteries you >> are using, but the new > battery technologies on the way will make energy >> expenditure less of an issue! >> Do you have all 4 motors exhausting > through one regulator? Couldn't see >> > any >> air coming out of the motor seals > so the pressure isn't building up too >> much >> when > exhausting. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 > AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs. > org> wrote: >> >> > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs > Regatta.? The >> first is the 100 ft dive > 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3 >> https://www.youtube.com/watch? > v=sHqL49V0lMw and the second is a night >> dive in front of Doug's house? https://www.youtube.com/watch? > v=KDBw1ZOdKaI. >> Alec is working on a > more comprehensive video of the Regatta. >> >> Regards >> >> Cliff >> >> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 > at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs. > org> wrote: >> >>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr > here to share my take on the 4-day >>> > sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July > 31st, August >>> 1-3). >>> >>> Wow, what a > whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>> with August 1-3 being true operational > days. Though it was unfortunate >>> > that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had > our hands >>> full with Cliff's > R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into > the canal for some basic diving. >>> >>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve > McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>> > River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>> >>> This was my > first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation > diver >>> and commercial welder. What a > pleasure to have him join us on this >>> operation. Dan is modest, but most > willing to share his knowledge and >>> > extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to > have chatted >>> with him in the Keys. > During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>> tow line and helped with comms. >>> >>> Steve McQueen > and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit > and tow lines, etc. they were >>> both > in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I > think >>> River took a little jelly > sting for the team. What troopers! >>> >>> Cliff and his > assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>> the friendliest people you'll ever > meet (and even brought a gift for >>> > the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is > always >>> willing to share his > expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>> to learn more. I know that between Dan > Lance and Cliff, I learned more >>> > than I can remember last week. >>> >>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself > were all just providing whatever >>> > kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the > R-300. >>> >>> > River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in > the canal >>> (which was great), but I > think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>> the R-300 out a ways into the > ocean. >>> >>> Our > Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) > was able to >>> tow the R-300 out about > 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>> were in radio communication with Cliff > most of the time, though we did >>> > suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a > spot about >>> 100 feet deep, we > started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) > let loose(!) so we decided that >>> we > had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio > to OTS >>> and Cliff started down. > Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still > quite visible from the Whaler! >>> His > 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow > did >>> it ever stand out from the rest > of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >>> an hour "flying" his sub, > surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>> testing systems and observing the > ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>> > surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time > stood at 4.5 >>> / 5 hours (estimate). > Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch > while in tow. Upon returning I think >>> we were all ready to take a break, but > everyone felt great >>> accomplishment > with the mission. >>> >>> A couple of lessons I took away from > the tow out: We need better tow >>> > equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). > Our boat >>> REALLY needs a GPS (still > don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>> much a problem, but when towing with > the waves, our tow line needs to >>> be > measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow > vessel >>> and sub (otherwise the sub > and boat are constantly slacking and then >>> jerking, stressing the tow line and > making it difficult for boat and >>> > sub to track straight). >>> >>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, > even in the heat and the waves >>> > everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation > like this >>> is more work / effort > than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>> one of the main discussions revolved > around a support vessel that can >>> > carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time > consuming tow >>> out to an ocean dive > site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>> vessel project, which is no doubt > going to be a dream in terms of >>> > logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan > will lend >>> its services to host a > diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>> >>> ______________________________ > _________________ >>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >> >> ______________________________ > _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> > ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: pipermail/personal_ submersibles/attachments/ > 20170809/ea2b1476/attachment- 0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 15:46:22 +0000 (UTC) > From: james cottrell via > Personal_Submersibles >? ? org> > To: Personal Submersibles > General Discussion >? ? org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] > Islamorada Trip Report... > Message-ID: <1907666847.421009. > 1502293582178 at mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="utf-8" > > Hi Cliff, > Congrats on your > dives. Sub really looks great in those videos. > With regards to an AC solution, one low tech > method would be to blow air across ice in a small cooler. > Water ice can be super cooled with Dry Ice the night before. > Dry ice is about - 100 F and water ice cooled to this > temperature should stay cold for quite some time. > Greg C? ? ? From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles org> >? To: Personal Submersibles > General Discussion org> >? Sent: Wednesday, August 9, > 2017 9:05 AM >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] > Islamorada Trip Report... >? ? > Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due > to condensation on viewport.? I used Dove soap on the > viewport interior?prior to taking off but because of the > humidity , temperature and duration of the dive, this > treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on > board.? The other issue is I only had two hand towels on > board and these became soaked with sweat.? As such, they > were not good for cleaning the condensation off?after the > two hour tow to the dive site.? Action items:? Have small > bottle of Dove soap on board and more towels for future long > duration dives.? > Yes, I have been reading > up on peltier coolers.? I have quite a bit of battery > capacity so this could work.? Unfortunately, mounting on > hull won't work for me as I have syntactic foam under > the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a cool > surface to mount on.? I do have a pair of plugged off ports > on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to > cooling water source if I installed a small pump on this > circuit.? Pushing this water through a small fin-fan cooler > like you would see on?water cooled motorcycle would help > with the temperature some what but not?humidity.? ?At > Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the > dive was about 87F so this would not have helped all that > much.? A small DC AC system that controlled both temperature > and humidity would be better. > On the > thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy > with how this worked.? I have all four of my thrusters > connected to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold into a > single pressure reducing/relieving regulator (thanks Hugh) > ?under the cover just aft of the pilot.?I was not sure if a > single regulator would work or if I would need one for each > thruster but it looks like one was adequate.? I have had two > deep dives with the arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to > 100 ft and have had no issues with water in the > thrusters. > Best Regards > Cliff > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at > 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > Thanks > Cliff,I presume you shot some footage from your sub & > this is the entr?e!Nice & clear, you must have been > pretty happy down there!After you mentioned air > conditioning, I looked into peltier elements &air > conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% > the efficiency?of a normal compression cycle system, but are > really small & by reversingthe polarity can act as > heaters. A few of those peltier elements stuck to the > hull?with air channelled past them might be the way to go! > Not sure what batteries youare using, but the new battery > technologies on the way will make energyexpenditure less of > an issue!Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one > regulator? Couldn't see any?air coming out of the motor > seals so the pressure isn't building up too muchwhen > exhausting.Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > On 9/08/2017, > at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Added two > quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta.? The > first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3??https://www.youtube.com/ > watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw?and the second is a night dive in front > of Doug's house??https://www.youtube. > com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI.? Alec is working on a more > comprehensive video of the Regatta. > Regards > Cliff > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr > via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > Greetings > PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the > 4-day > sub operation we just completed in > Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August > 1-3). > > Wow, what a whirlwind! So July > 31st was really an arrival / setup day > with > August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was > unfortunate > that Alec wasn't able to > make it with Shackleton, we had our hands > full with Cliff's R-300. Without > Shackleton, we also had enough time > to get > Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic > diving. > > List of Crew: Dan > Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, > River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, > Douglas Suhr. > > This was my > first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation > diver > and commercial welder. What a pleasure > to have him join us on this > operation. Dan > is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and > extensive experience with a newbie like me. So > pleased to have chatted > with him in the > Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the > tow line and helped with comms. > > Steve McQueen and River Dolfi > did awesome jobs as our frog men. > Filming, > attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were > both in and out of the water quite a bit > (especially Steve). I think > River took a > little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! > > Cliff and his assistant Rick > are such a joy be around. Rick is one of > the > friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a > gift for > the group: a watermelon, straight > from Texas!). Cliff is always > willing to > share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd > like > to learn more. I know that between Dan > Lance and Cliff, I learned more > than I can > remember last week. > > Mike > Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing > whatever > kind of "troop support" > we could to Cliff and the R-300. > > River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time > on Snoopy in the canal > (which was great), > but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting > the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. > > Our Boston Whaler (a 25' > boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to > tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean > (at about 4mph). We > were in radio > communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did > suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When > we got to a spot about > 100 feet deep, we > started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow > line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let > loose(!) so we decided that > we had reached > our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS > and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! > As Cliff neared the > bottom at 100 ? 110 > feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! > His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 > inches long, but wow did > it ever stand out > from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about > an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, > diving and maneuvering about, > testing > systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time > Cliff > surfaced and we towed back to port > Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 > / 5 hours > (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water > flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in > tow. Upon returning I think > we were all > ready to take a break, but everyone felt great > accomplishment with the mission. > > A couple of lessons I took > away from the tow out: We need better tow > equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a > quick release). Our boat > REALLY needs a GPS > (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't > so > much a problem, but when towing with the > waves, our tow line needs to > be measured so > as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel > and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are > constantly slacking and then > jerking, > stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat > and > sub to track straight). > > The devotion of our crew was > amazing, even in the heat and the waves > everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small > sub operation like this > is more work / > effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At > dinner, > one of the main discussions revolved > around a support vessel that can > carry a sub > or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow > out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared > details on his support > vessel project, which > is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of > logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready > to sail, Dan will lend > its services to host > a diving event! ~ Douglas S. > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or > g > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l > istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > >? ? > > |? | Virus-free. www.avast.com? | > > -------------- next part > -------------- > An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... > URL: pipermail/personal_ submersibles/attachments/ > 20170809/1374ba08/attachment. html> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles > Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 > ****************************** > *********************** > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > ______________________________ > _________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 11 17:09:41 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 21:09:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 References: <1829476914.187421.1502485781210.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1829476914.187421.1502485781210@mail.yahoo.com> freepetesub at yahoo.com -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 8/10/17, Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Thursday, August 10, 2017, 6:39 PM Pete! Are you in Minnesota? Me too. Minnetrista and Duluth. > On Aug 10, 2017, at 6:24 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Melbourne ? Try Minnesota. > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 8/9/17, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Date: Wednesday, August 9, 2017, 8:09 PM > > Hi > Steve,ideally a normal air > conditioner would be better for cooling, but you have to get > rid of it's heat somehow. > I am not sure how the expensive submersibles do it! Maybe > there is a > through hull to an external heat exchanger. They are also > noisy, bulky & I could bewrong but I believe > G.L. have issues with the gas they use! If the peltier was > 25% asefficient as a > compression unit, & needed 4 x the power, then that > might mean havinganother battery to > drive it. The bulk & expense of the battery may even out > the cost& size comparison > of the two options. This would be interesting to > research!I > saw a couple of articles that said the Peltier was up there > in efficiency with resistive heating. They > are used in climate control modules in both their heating > &cooling > functions, & I like this option for a submersible where > you can go from one extreme of temperature > to another! ( like Melbourne)Cheers Alanp.s. my daughter loves > it in Melbourne she has been there 4 years now! > > > > Sent > from my iPad > On > 10/08/2017, at 12:14 PM, Stephen Fordyce via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Hi Alan,Resistive heating being > about as close as you can get to 100%, I would be sceptical > about that. I've experimented with Peltier modules for > gas cooling and they were quite disappointing in > performance, although wonderfully simple in > operation. > Cheers,Steve > On 10 Aug 2017 8:33 am, > "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" > wrote: > Just did some Googling on > the Peltier as a heater.In > an experiment I saw it was more efficient than resistive > heating!This > depends to an extent on the ambient heat > differential. I > would imagine you would need to attach them to the hull > & surround themwith > an insulating material to stop the metal of the hull > radiating backthe > cold or heat produced, & force it to transfer it all to > the water.Another > bunny trail to investigate.Cheers > Alan > > Sent from my > iPad > On 10/08/2017, at 9:18 AM, > Alan via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > Mike,the peltier is only > 1/4 to 1/3 as efficient as a compressor system, but > Cliff& I have very little spare room. They > serve as heaters by reversing polarity.I am not > sure of their efficiency as heaters compared with resistive > coils;probably poor!? Cliff would have to cut a > hole in his fibreglass outer & dig backthe > syntactic foam to the pressure hull to get cooling on the > reverse side ofthe peltier or compressor air > conditioning unit. Could look sexy if he put > someshark gills in it for water > ingress.Cliff didn't have a cover on the > dome, & that would let a lot of heat in.We > had a wet towel on Snoopy last time at > Islamorada.Have heard that people like Nuytco use > a shore based air conditioner to coolthe sub down > prior to a dive; but I don't know how long that benefit > wouldlast being towed out that > distance.Cheers Alan > > Sent from my > iPad > On 10/08/2017, at 6:25 > AM, peaceroom via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > > > Reference,summer submarine cooling. A scaled down > version of the small cooler with ice and DC fan, similar to > the one in Sportys, aviation supplies is what a lot of > planes use. Just an inexpensive idea. Peltier coolers > provide very little cooling versus DC current used. Mike > Patterson > > > Sent from my Samsung > device > > -------- > Original message -------- > From: via > Personal_Submersibles org> > Date: 8/9/17? 11:46 AM > (GMT-05:00) > To: personal_submersibles at psubs. > org > Subject: Personal_Submersibles > Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 > > Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list > submissions to >? ? personal_submersibles at psubs. > org > > To subscribe or > unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >? ? http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > or, > via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to >? ? personal_submersibles-request@ > psubs.org > > You can reach > the person managing the list at >? ? personal_submersibles-owner@ > psubs.org > > When > replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific > than "Re: Contents of > Personal_Submersibles digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >? ? 1. Re: Islamorada Trip > Report... >? ? ? (Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles) >? ? 2. Re: > Islamorada Trip Report... >? ? ? (james > cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) > > > ------------------------------ > ------------------------------ ---------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 08:03:07 -0500 > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >? ? org> > To: Personal Submersibles > General Discussion >? ? org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] > Islamorada Trip Report... > Message-ID: >? ? 6x2d9fKdaCW1uND2psz=ncVoQ9cg@ mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="utf-8" > > Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due > to condensation on > viewport.? I used Dove > soap on the viewport interior prior to taking off > but because of the humidity , temperature and > duration of the dive, this > treatment did not > last and I did not have more soap on board.? The other > issue is I only had two hand towels on board > and these became soaked with > sweat.? As > such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation off > after > the two hour tow to the dive site. > Action items:? Have small bottle of > Dove > soap on board and more towels for future long duration > dives. > > Yes, I have been > reading up on peltier coolers.? I have quite a bit of > battery capacity so this could work. > Unfortunately, mounting on hull won't > work for me as I have syntactic foam under the > FRP shell over the hull so I > don't have > a cool surface to mount on.? I do have a pair of plugged > off > ports on the bottom of the boat that > would give me access to cooling water > source > if I installed a small pump on this circuit.? Pushing this > water > through a small fin-fan cooler like > you would see on water cooled > motorcycle > would help with the temperature some what but not > humidity.? At > Islamorada, the average > water temperature at the time of the dive was about > 87F so this would not have helped all that > much.? A small DC AC system that > controlled > both temperature and humidity would be better. > > On the thruster pneumatic > pressure compensation, I was very happy with how > this worked.? I have all four of my thrusters > connected to 1/4" SS tubing > that is > manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving > regulator > (thanks Hugh)? under the cover > just aft of the pilot. I was not sure if a > single regulator would work or if I would need > one for each thruster but it > looks like one > was adequate.? I have had two deep dives with the > arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft > and have had no issues with > water in the > thrusters. > > Best Regards > > Cliff > > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs. > org> wrote: > >> > Thanks Cliff, >> I presume you shot some > footage from your sub & this is the entr?e! >> Nice & clear, you must have been > pretty happy down there! >> After you > mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier elements > & >> air conditioning units. The > peltier conditioners have only 25% the >> > efficiency >> of a normal compression > cycle system, but are really small & by reversing >> the polarity can act as heaters. A few of > those peltier elements stuck to >> the > hull >> with air channelled past them > might be the way to go! Not sure what >> > batteries you >> are using, but the new > battery technologies on the way will make energy >> expenditure less of an issue! >> Do you have all 4 motors exhausting > through one regulator? Couldn't see >> > any >> air coming out of the motor seals > so the pressure isn't building up too >> much >> when > exhausting. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 > AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs. > org> wrote: >> >> > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs > Regatta.? The >> first is the 100 ft dive > 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3 >> https://www.youtube.com/watch? > v=sHqL49V0lMw and the second is a night >> dive in front of Doug's house? https://www.youtube.com/watch? > v=KDBw1ZOdKaI. >> Alec is working on a > more comprehensive video of the Regatta. >> >> Regards >> >> Cliff >> >> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 > at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs. > org> wrote: >> >>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr > here to share my take on the 4-day >>> > sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July > 31st, August >>> 1-3). >>> >>> Wow, what a > whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>> with August 1-3 being true operational > days. Though it was unfortunate >>> > that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had > our hands >>> full with Cliff's > R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into > the canal for some basic diving. >>> >>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve > McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>> > River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>> >>> This was my > first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation > diver >>> and commercial welder. What a > pleasure to have him join us on this >>> operation. Dan is modest, but most > willing to share his knowledge and >>> > extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to > have chatted >>> with him in the Keys. > During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>> tow line and helped with comms. >>> >>> Steve McQueen > and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit > and tow lines, etc. they were >>> both > in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I > think >>> River took a little jelly > sting for the team. What troopers! >>> >>> Cliff and his > assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>> the friendliest people you'll ever > meet (and even brought a gift for >>> > the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is > always >>> willing to share his > expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>> to learn more. I know that between Dan > Lance and Cliff, I learned more >>> > than I can remember last week. >>> >>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself > were all just providing whatever >>> > kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the > R-300. >>> >>> > River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in > the canal >>> (which was great), but I > think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>> the R-300 out a ways into the > ocean. >>> >>> Our > Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) > was able to >>> tow the R-300 out about > 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>> were in radio communication with Cliff > most of the time, though we did >>> > suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a > spot about >>> 100 feet deep, we > started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) > let loose(!) so we decided that >>> we > had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio > to OTS >>> and Cliff started down. > Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still > quite visible from the Whaler! >>> His > 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow > did >>> it ever stand out from the rest > of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >>> an hour "flying" his sub, > surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>> testing systems and observing the > ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>> > surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time > stood at 4.5 >>> / 5 hours (estimate). > Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch > while in tow. Upon returning I think >>> we were all ready to take a break, but > everyone felt great >>> accomplishment > with the mission. >>> >>> A couple of lessons I took away from > the tow out: We need better tow >>> > equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). > Our boat >>> REALLY needs a GPS (still > don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>> much a problem, but when towing with > the waves, our tow line needs to >>> be > measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow > vessel >>> and sub (otherwise the sub > and boat are constantly slacking and then >>> jerking, stressing the tow line and > making it difficult for boat and >>> > sub to track straight). >>> >>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, > even in the heat and the waves >>> > everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation > like this >>> is more work / effort > than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>> one of the main discussions revolved > around a support vessel that can >>> > carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time > consuming tow >>> out to an ocean dive > site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>> vessel project, which is no doubt > going to be a dream in terms of >>> > logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan > will lend >>> its services to host a > diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>> >>> ______________________________ > _________________ >>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >> >> ______________________________ > _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> > ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: pipermail/personal_ submersibles/attachments/ > 20170809/ea2b1476/attachment- 0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 15:46:22 +0000 (UTC) > From: james cottrell via > Personal_Submersibles >? ? org> > To: Personal Submersibles > General Discussion >? ? org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] > Islamorada Trip Report... > Message-ID: <1907666847.421009. > 1502293582178 at mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="utf-8" > > Hi Cliff, > Congrats on your > dives. Sub really looks great in those videos. > With regards to an AC solution, one low tech > method would be to blow air across ice in a small cooler. > Water ice can be super cooled with Dry Ice the night before. > Dry ice is about - 100 F and water ice cooled to this > temperature should stay cold for quite some time. > Greg C? ? ? From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles org> >? To: Personal Submersibles > General Discussion org> >? Sent: Wednesday, August 9, > 2017 9:05 AM >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] > Islamorada Trip Report... >? ? > Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due > to condensation on viewport.? I used Dove soap on the > viewport interior?prior to taking off but because of the > humidity , temperature and duration of the dive, this > treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on > board.? The other issue is I only had two hand towels on > board and these became soaked with sweat.? As such, they > were not good for cleaning the condensation off?after the > two hour tow to the dive site.? Action items:? Have small > bottle of Dove soap on board and more towels for future long > duration dives.? > Yes, I have been reading > up on peltier coolers.? I have quite a bit of battery > capacity so this could work.? Unfortunately, mounting on > hull won't work for me as I have syntactic foam under > the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a cool > surface to mount on.? I do have a pair of plugged off ports > on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to > cooling water source if I installed a small pump on this > circuit.? Pushing this water through a small fin-fan cooler > like you would see on?water cooled motorcycle would help > with the temperature some what but not?humidity.? ?At > Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the > dive was about 87F so this would not have helped all that > much.? A small DC AC system that controlled both temperature > and humidity would be better. > On the > thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy > with how this worked.? I have all four of my thrusters > connected to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold into a > single pressure reducing/relieving regulator (thanks Hugh) > ?under the cover just aft of the pilot.?I was not sure if a > single regulator would work or if I would need one for each > thruster but it looks like one was adequate.? I have had two > deep dives with the arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to > 100 ft and have had no issues with water in the > thrusters. > Best Regards > Cliff > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at > 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > Thanks > Cliff,I presume you shot some footage from your sub & > this is the entr?e!Nice & clear, you must have been > pretty happy down there!After you mentioned air > conditioning, I looked into peltier elements &air > conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% > the efficiency?of a normal compression cycle system, but are > really small & by reversingthe polarity can act as > heaters. A few of those peltier elements stuck to the > hull?with air channelled past them might be the way to go! > Not sure what batteries youare using, but the new battery > technologies on the way will make energyexpenditure less of > an issue!Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one > regulator? Couldn't see any?air coming out of the motor > seals so the pressure isn't building up too muchwhen > exhausting.Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > On 9/08/2017, > at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Added two > quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs Regatta.? The > first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3??https://www.youtube.com/ > watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw?and the second is a night dive in front > of Doug's house??https://www.youtube. > com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI.? Alec is working on a more > comprehensive video of the Regatta. > Regards > Cliff > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr > via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > Greetings > PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the > 4-day > sub operation we just completed in > Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August > 1-3). > > Wow, what a whirlwind! So July > 31st was really an arrival / setup day > with > August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was > unfortunate > that Alec wasn't able to > make it with Shackleton, we had our hands > full with Cliff's R-300. Without > Shackleton, we also had enough time > to get > Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic > diving. > > List of Crew: Dan > Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, > River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, > Douglas Suhr. > > This was my > first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation > diver > and commercial welder. What a pleasure > to have him join us on this > operation. Dan > is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and > extensive experience with a newbie like me. So > pleased to have chatted > with him in the > Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the > tow line and helped with comms. > > Steve McQueen and River Dolfi > did awesome jobs as our frog men. > Filming, > attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were > both in and out of the water quite a bit > (especially Steve). I think > River took a > little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! > > Cliff and his assistant Rick > are such a joy be around. Rick is one of > the > friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a > gift for > the group: a watermelon, straight > from Texas!). Cliff is always > willing to > share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd > like > to learn more. I know that between Dan > Lance and Cliff, I learned more > than I can > remember last week. > > Mike > Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing > whatever > kind of "troop support" > we could to Cliff and the R-300. > > River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time > on Snoopy in the canal > (which was great), > but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting > the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. > > Our Boston Whaler (a 25' > boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to > tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean > (at about 4mph). We > were in radio > communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did > suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When > we got to a spot about > 100 feet deep, we > started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow > line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let > loose(!) so we decided that > we had reached > our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS > and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! > As Cliff neared the > bottom at 100 ? 110 > feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! > His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 > inches long, but wow did > it ever stand out > from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about > an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, > diving and maneuvering about, > testing > systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time > Cliff > surfaced and we towed back to port > Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 > / 5 hours > (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water > flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in > tow. Upon returning I think > we were all > ready to take a break, but everyone felt great > accomplishment with the mission. > > A couple of lessons I took > away from the tow out: We need better tow > equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a > quick release). Our boat > REALLY needs a GPS > (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't > so > much a problem, but when towing with the > waves, our tow line needs to > be measured so > as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel > and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are > constantly slacking and then > jerking, > stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat > and > sub to track straight). > > The devotion of our crew was > amazing, even in the heat and the waves > everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small > sub operation like this > is more work / > effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At > dinner, > one of the main discussions revolved > around a support vessel that can > carry a sub > or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow > out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared > details on his support > vessel project, which > is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of > logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready > to sail, Dan will lend > its services to host > a diving event! ~ Douglas S. > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or > g > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l > istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > >? ? > > |? | Virus-free. www.avast.com? | > > -------------- next part > -------------- > An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... > URL: pipermail/personal_ submersibles/attachments/ > 20170809/1374ba08/attachment. html> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles > Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 > ****************************** > *********************** > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > ______________________________ > _________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 11 17:08:17 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 21:08:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma's diesel engine In-Reply-To: <658937188.1744829.1502454689462@mail.yahoo.com> References: <867125862.45386.1502399257281.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <867125862.45386.1502399257281@mail.yahoo.com> <658937188.1744829.1502454689462@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <900236269.140983.1502485697480@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Greg,Thank you for the input. ?That is good to know that the captain liked the diesel model. ?I have been torn over the idea, but since I have an actual engine room with insulated door, it should be fine. ?My 6 hp motor sounds small now, I can get a bigger one. ?My problem is it has to fit through a 18 in dia opening with ease so the escape pod can still be an escape pod. ?Gamma had a 2 hp electric originally with the prop in the centre of the height. ?I figure the 6 hp diesel should be double that and spin the prop twice the speed. ?I will take the transmission advice, I have one so no problem there.Hank On Friday, August 11, 2017, 6:31:48 AM MDT, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Captain Kittredge built three diesel subs and liked them very much. He used 7-8 hp yanmar diesels with a transmission. He highly recommended using a transmission and considered reverse a necessity. Exhaust existed at the bottom of the hull just behind a makeshift "skeg" that created cavitation (vacuum to reduce back pressure).? The prop should be below center on a sub due to the low center of gravity. If you place a powerful prop as high up as the middle it will lift the stern. Greg C From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 5:14 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma's diesel engine Hi All,I have just purchased a 6 hp diesel for Gamma. ?The plan is to use the original prop assembly that can jettison. ?The only thing I am not sure of is will I have cavitation problems. ?The prop will be about 12 inches from the occupant sphere, mounted in the centre of the sphere (equator) ?Will I have to put a spacer between the sphere and prop assembly to move it further away?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 11 17:09:58 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 21:09:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <346CFB6E-7F5E-4B30-AF14-D884ABD37F02@gmail.com> References: <20170811151629.0G9AA.220998.root@cdptpa-web04> <346CFB6E-7F5E-4B30-AF14-D884ABD37F02@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1937054352.157480.1502485798977@mail.yahoo.com> I am real sorry to hear that! ?I presume a recovery plan is in the works? ?How deep is it sitting?Hank On Friday, August 11, 2017, 12:07:13 PM MDT, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I can't imagine how disheartening that must be. Particularly with a boat of that magnitude. Peter, I'm just glad you and your companion are safe. Best, Alec > On Aug 11, 2017, at 11:16 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Wow. So sorry to hear. Thanks for sharing. > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Beram Mahmoud via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hello, >> >> >> >> well sad news as the UC3 Nautilus sank on a trip. Fortunately nobody was hurt. First information hinds to a fault? in the ballast system. >> >> >> >> http://www.independent.ie/world-news/owner-safe-after-private-submarine-sinks-off-denmark-36021818.html >> >> http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/danes-search-missing-private-submarine-off-copenhagen-49152539 >> >> >> >> >> >> It is a fascinating hobby as long as everything works out. >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Beram >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 11 17:21:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 17:21:56 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <1937054352.157480.1502485798977@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15dd32cd008-474c-1195e@webprd-a86.mail.aol.com> So, I've got to ask about this incident because some news reports are saying that a woman died on the sub. Does anybody know the true story about what happened? Thanks, -Ludwig -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Fri, Aug 11, 2017 4:14 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus I am real sorry to hear that! I presume a recovery plan is in the works? How deep is it sitting? Hank On Friday, August 11, 2017, 12:07:13 PM MDT, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I can't imagine how disheartening that must be. Particularly with a boat of that magnitude. Peter, I'm just glad you and your companion are safe. Best, Alec > On Aug 11, 2017, at 11:16 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Wow. So sorry to hear. Thanks for sharing. > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Beram Mahmoud via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hello, >> >> >> >> well sad news as the UC3 Nautilus sank on a trip. Fortunately nobody was hurt. First information hinds to a fault in the ballast system. >> >> >> >> http://www.independent.ie/world-news/owner-safe-after-private-submarine-sinks-off-denmark-36021818.html >> >> http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/danes-search-missing-private-submarine-off-copenhagen-49152539 >> >> >> >> >> >> It is a fascinating hobby as long as everything works out. >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Beram >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 11 17:45:19 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 21:45:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma's diesel engine In-Reply-To: <900236269.140983.1502485697480@mail.yahoo.com> References: <867125862.45386.1502399257281.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <867125862.45386.1502399257281@mail.yahoo.com> <658937188.1744829.1502454689462@mail.yahoo.com> <900236269.140983.1502485697480@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <736660486.141971.1502487919775@mail.yahoo.com> Hank, Too bad we don't have the captain around to answer questions anymore- he did it all. George was an expert at building simple things that worked really well. Don't worry about 6 hp being too small- it will be plenty. George was working on another diesel boat for himself before he passed. I think that the engine was 7 hp. The hull is now on display in South Thomaston ME. as a memorial to him. Ideally, a high thrust motor needs to be pushing at the metacentric point (average between center of buoyancy and center of gravity) This point is usually very low on a shallow diving sub. There are a couple of guys around that mounted high thrust engines at the mid point on the stern and found that the subs would nose dive at full power. You can get away with a center mounted prop when the thrust is low. George also ran the engine with the intake open to the inside of the hull and the hatch open for simplicity. He used flexible stainless exhaust hose through a ball valve at the bottom of the hull. The "skeg" was a thick piece of steel angle welded to the bottom (pointing down and back) ahead of the exhaust outlet with the "V" pointing forward. Greg C. From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 5:14 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma's diesel engine Hi Greg,Thank you for the input. ?That is good to know that the captain liked the diesel model. ?I have been torn over the idea, but since I have an actual engine room with insulated door, it should be fine. ?My 6 hp motor sounds small now, I can get a bigger one. ?My problem is it has to fit through a 18 in dia opening with ease so the escape pod can still be an escape pod. ?Gamma had a 2 hp electric originally with the prop in the centre of the height. ?I figure the 6 hp diesel should be double that and spin the prop twice the speed. ?I will take the transmission advice, I have one so no problem there.Hank On Friday, August 11, 2017, 6:31:48 AM MDT, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Captain Kittredge built three diesel subs and liked them very much. He used 7-8 hp yanmar diesels with a transmission. He highly recommended using a transmission and considered reverse a necessity. Exhaust existed at the bottom of the hull just behind a makeshift "skeg" that created cavitation (vacuum to reduce back pressure).? The prop should be below center on a sub due to the low center of gravity. If you place a powerful prop as high up as the middle it will lift the stern. Greg C From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 5:14 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma's diesel engine Hi All,I have just purchased a 6 hp diesel for Gamma. ?The plan is to use the original prop assembly that can jettison. ?The only thing I am not sure of is will I have cavitation problems. ?The prop will be about 12 inches from the occupant sphere, mounted in the centre of the sphere (equator) ?Will I have to put a spacer between the sphere and prop assembly to move it further away?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 11 17:53:51 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2017 09:53:51 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 34 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8DACA87D-EA94-45FB-8EE8-23F0D51755E2@yahoo.com> Brian, I don't think Cliff would have room for that in the R300, but if he ( or I) built an insulted container that conformed to the curvature of the hull, that you could fit a number of long narrow bottles in, it may be a great option. I was googling to see how many Watts of electricity it took to freeze 1 litre of water, for the purpose of seeing how much battery power you would save going this way rather than a dehumidifier or Peltier system. one guy had calculated 400W; I am not sure whether this is right or not! G.L. requires you to have on board enough water for 4 days anyway, so why not have it in frozen form & reap the benefits of cooling when required! Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/08/2017, at 10:43 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > ro > Mine is a smaller version of this. I use frozen water bottles so the melted ice water doesn't pour all over me pushing it out the hatch when done. And as Alec pointed out, cold water to drink along the way! > > https://youtu.be/ITtlxjvLQis > > > > Get Outlook for Android > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 11 18:03:24 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2017 10:03:24 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <15dd32cd008-474c-1195e@webprd-a86.mail.aol.com> References: <15dd32cd008-474c-1195e@webprd-a86.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <5CCE1B44-A70F-4EFB-A17B-E4883A5C0CF3@yahoo.com> Just found this report where he is being held on suspicion of murder! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/submarine-nautilus-peter-madsen-crowdfunding-sank-journalist-missing-a7889251.html Alan Sent from my iPad > On 12/08/2017, at 9:21 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > So, I've got to ask about this incident because some news reports are saying that a woman died on the sub. Does anybody know the true story about what happened? > > Thanks, > -Ludwig > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Fri, Aug 11, 2017 4:14 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus > > I am real sorry to hear that! I presume a recovery plan is in the works? How deep is it sitting? > Hank > > > On Friday, August 11, 2017, 12:07:13 PM MDT, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I can't imagine how disheartening that must be. Particularly with a boat of that magnitude. Peter, I'm just glad you and your companion are safe. > > Best, > > Alec > > > On Aug 11, 2017, at 11:16 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Wow. So sorry to hear. Thanks for sharing. > > > > Thanks, > > Steve > > > > ---- Beram Mahmoud via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Hello, > >> > >> > >> > >> well sad news as the UC3 Nautilus sank on a trip. Fortunately nobody was hurt. First information hinds to a fault in the ballast system. > >> > >> > >> > >> http://www.independent.ie/world-news/owner-safe-after-private-submarine-sinks-off-denmark-36021818.html > >> > >> http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/danes-search-missing-private-submarine-off-copenhagen-49152539 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> It is a fascinating hobby as long as everything works out. > >> > >> > >> > >> Best regards, > >> > >> Beram > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 11 18:04:37 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 22:04:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma's diesel engine In-Reply-To: <736660486.141971.1502487919775@mail.yahoo.com> References: <867125862.45386.1502399257281.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <867125862.45386.1502399257281@mail.yahoo.com> <658937188.1744829.1502454689462@mail.yahoo.com> <900236269.140983.1502485697480@mail.yahoo.com> <736660486.141971.1502487919775@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <256070783.160389.1502489077449@mail.yahoo.com> Greg,At full power with all thrusters going, Gamma tends to nose dive a bit. ?I think the bow wave sits on top of the sub and pushes it dow. ?It is no big deal but it does happen. ?I figured the nose would drop but I could compensate by lowering the ?stern.I too will keep it simple.Hank On Friday, August 11, 2017, 3:45:40 PM MDT, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Too bad we don't have the captain around to answer questions anymore- he did it all. George was an expert at building simple things that worked really well. Don't worry about 6 hp being too small- it will be plenty. George was working on another diesel boat for himself before he passed. I think that the engine was 7 hp. The hull is now on display in South Thomaston ME. as a memorial to him. Ideally, a high thrust motor needs to be pushing at the metacentric point (average between center of buoyancy and center of gravity) This point is usually very low on a shallow diving sub. There are a couple of guys around that mounted high thrust engines at the mid point on the stern and found that the subs would nose dive at full power. You can get away with a center mounted prop when the thrust is low. George also ran the engine with the intake open to the inside of the hull and the hatch open for simplicity. He used flexible stainless exhaust hose through a ball valve at the bottom of the hull. The "skeg" was a thick piece of steel angle welded to the bottom (pointing down and back) ahead of the exhaust outlet with the "V" pointing forward. Greg C. From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 5:14 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma's diesel engine Hi Greg,Thank you for the input. ?That is good to know that the captain liked the diesel model. ?I have been torn over the idea, but since I have an actual engine room with insulated door, it should be fine. ?My 6 hp motor sounds small now, I can get a bigger one. ?My problem is it has to fit through a 18 in dia opening with ease so the escape pod can still be an escape pod. ?Gamma had a 2 hp electric originally with the prop in the centre of the height. ?I figure the 6 hp diesel should be double that and spin the prop twice the speed. ?I will take the transmission advice, I have one so no problem there.Hank On Friday, August 11, 2017, 6:31:48 AM MDT, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Captain Kittredge built three diesel subs and liked them very much. He used 7-8 hp yanmar diesels with a transmission. He highly recommended using a transmission and considered reverse a necessity. Exhaust existed at the bottom of the hull just behind a makeshift "skeg" that created cavitation (vacuum to reduce back pressure).? The prop should be below center on a sub due to the low center of gravity. If you place a powerful prop as high up as the middle it will lift the stern. Greg C From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 5:14 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma's diesel engine Hi All,I have just purchased a 6 hp diesel for Gamma. ?The plan is to use the original prop assembly that can jettison. ?The only thing I am not sure of is will I have cavitation problems. ?The prop will be about 12 inches from the occupant sphere, mounted in the centre of the sphere (equator) ?Will I have to put a spacer between the sphere and prop assembly to move it further away?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 11 18:19:04 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 17:19:04 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus Message-ID: <201708112218.v7BMIcMm018464@whoweb.com> My electrical engineer is in Denmark and knows him well and is currently there. The submarine sunk in very shallow water (like 7 meters). There was a female new reporter on board. After they were rescued he took her home then she was reported missing. Everything is currently under investigation.-Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/11/17 5:03 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus Just found this report where he is being held on suspicion of murder!http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/submarine-nautilus-peter-madsen-crowdfunding-sank-journalist-missing-a7889251.htmlAlan Sent from my iPad On 12/08/2017, at 9:21 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: So, I've got to ask about this incident because some news reports are saying that a woman died on the sub. ?Does anybody know the true story about what happened? Thanks, -Ludwig -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Fri, Aug 11, 2017 4:14 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus I am real sorry to hear that! ?I presume a recovery plan is in the works? ?How deep is it sitting? Hank On Friday, August 11, 2017, 12:07:13 PM MDT, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I can't imagine how disheartening that must be. Particularly with a boat of that magnitude. Peter, I'm just glad you and your companion are safe. Best, Alec > On Aug 11, 2017, at 11:16 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Wow. So sorry to hear. Thanks for sharing. > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Beram Mahmoud via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hello, >> >> >> >> well sad news as the UC3 Nautilus sank on a trip. Fortunately nobody was hurt. First information hinds to a fault? in the ballast system. >> >> >> >> http://www.independent.ie/world-news/owner-safe-after-private-submarine-sinks-off-denmark-36021818.html >> >> http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/danes-search-missing-private-submarine-off-copenhagen-49152539 >> >> >> >> >> >> It is a fascinating hobby as long as everything works out. >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Beram >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 11 18:21:58 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 18:21:58 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <5CCE1B44-A70F-4EFB-A17B-E4883A5C0CF3@yahoo.com> References: <15dd32cd008-474c-1195e@webprd-a86.mail.aol.com> <5CCE1B44-A70F-4EFB-A17B-E4883A5C0CF3@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <82E1DE9E-FFA9-47C8-AA51-E1447B127078@gmail.com> Getting crazier by the minute. I read the boat is in only 7m, which makes no sense if someone was trying to sink it to hide evidence. I hope they get inside to resolve this fast. Alec > On Aug 11, 2017, at 6:03 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Just found this report where he is being held on suspicion of murder! > http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/submarine-nautilus-peter-madsen-crowdfunding-sank-journalist-missing-a7889251.html > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 12/08/2017, at 9:21 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> So, I've got to ask about this incident because some news reports are saying that a woman died on the sub. Does anybody know the true story about what happened? >> >> Thanks, >> -Ludwig >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Fri, Aug 11, 2017 4:14 pm >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus >> >> I am real sorry to hear that! I presume a recovery plan is in the works? How deep is it sitting? >> Hank >> >> >> On Friday, August 11, 2017, 12:07:13 PM MDT, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> I can't imagine how disheartening that must be. Particularly with a boat of that magnitude. Peter, I'm just glad you and your companion are safe. >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> > On Aug 11, 2017, at 11:16 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > >> > Wow. So sorry to hear. Thanks for sharing. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Steve >> > >> > ---- Beram Mahmoud via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> well sad news as the UC3 Nautilus sank on a trip. Fortunately nobody was hurt. First information hinds to a fault in the ballast system. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.independent.ie/world-news/owner-safe-after-private-submarine-sinks-off-denmark-36021818.html >> >> >> >> http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/danes-search-missing-private-submarine-off-copenhagen-49152539 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> It is a fascinating hobby as long as everything works out. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> >> >> Beram >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 11 18:25:41 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 18:25:41 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <201708112218.v7BMIcMm018464@whoweb.com> References: <201708112218.v7BMIcMm018464@whoweb.com> Message-ID: <15dd3672e47-474c-11bc3@webprd-a86.mail.aol.com> Thanks for the update! By tomorrow, everything should hopefully be clearer. I hope everybody here is smart enough not to believe what the news is saying until the official police report gets posted. -Ludwig -----Original Message----- From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Fri, Aug 11, 2017 5:19 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus My electrical engineer is in Denmark and knows him well and is currently there. The submarine sunk in very shallow water (like 7 meters). There was a female new reporter on board. After they were rescued he took her home then she was reported missing. Everything is currently under investigation. -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/11/17 5:03 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus Just found this report where he is being held on suspicion of murder! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/submarine-nautilus-peter-madsen-crowdfunding-sank-journalist-missing-a7889251.html Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/08/2017, at 9:21 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: So, I've got to ask about this incident because some news reports are saying that a woman died on the sub. Does anybody know the true story about what happened? Thanks, -Ludwig -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Fri, Aug 11, 2017 4:14 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus I am real sorry to hear that! I presume a recovery plan is in the works? How deep is it sitting? Hank On Friday, August 11, 2017, 12:07:13 PM MDT, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I can't imagine how disheartening that must be. Particularly with a boat of that magnitude. Peter, I'm just glad you and your companion are safe. Best, Alec > On Aug 11, 2017, at 11:16 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Wow. So sorry to hear. Thanks for sharing. > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Beram Mahmoud via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hello, >> >> >> >> well sad news as the UC3 Nautilus sank on a trip. Fortunately nobody was hurt. First information hinds to a fault in the ballast system. >> >> >> >> http://www.independent.ie/world-news/owner-safe-after-private-submarine-sinks-off-denmark-36021818.html >> >> http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/danes-search-missing-private-submarine-off-copenhagen-49152539 >> >> >> >> >> >> It is a fascinating hobby as long as everything works out. >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Beram >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 11 18:38:13 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 22:38:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <15dd3672e47-474c-11bc3@webprd-a86.mail.aol.com> References: <201708112218.v7BMIcMm018464@whoweb.com> <15dd3672e47-474c-11bc3@webprd-a86.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <850480835.188437.1502491093458@mail.yahoo.com> Terrible news. I hope everything turns well and the sub can be rescued soon.? It was a very nice boat. I hope Peter will be free soon.Best wsihesJuergen via Personal_Submersibles schrieb am 17:28 Freitag, 11.August 2017: Thanks for the update! ?By tomorrow, everything should hopefully be clearer.? I hope everybody here is smart enough not to believe what the news is saying until the official police report gets posted. -Ludwig? -----Original Message----- From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Fri, Aug 11, 2017 5:19 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus My electrical engineer is in Denmark and knows him well and is currently there. The submarine sunk in very shallow water (like 7 meters). There was a female new reporter on board. After they were rescued he took her home then she was reported missing. Everything is currently under investigation.-Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/11/17 5:03 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus Just found this report where he is being held on suspicion of murder!http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/submarine-nautilus-peter-madsen-crowdfunding-sank-journalist-missing-a7889251.htmlAlan Sent from my iPad On 12/08/2017, at 9:21 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: So, I've got to ask about this incident because some news reports are saying that a woman died on the sub. ?Does anybody know the true story about what happened? Thanks,-Ludwig -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Fri, Aug 11, 2017 4:14 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus I am real sorry to hear that! ?I presume a recovery plan is in the works? ?How deep is it sitting?Hank On Friday, August 11, 2017, 12:07:13 PM MDT, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I can't imagine how disheartening that must be. Particularly with a boat of that magnitude. Peter, I'm just glad you and your companion are safe. Best, Alec > On Aug 11, 2017, at 11:16 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Wow. So sorry to hear. Thanks for sharing. > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Beram Mahmoud via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hello, >> >> >> >> well sad news as the UC3 Nautilus sank on a trip. Fortunately nobody was hurt. First information hinds to a fault? in the ballast system. >> >> >> >> http://www.independent.ie/world-news/owner-safe-after-private-submarine-sinks-off-denmark-36021818.html >> >> http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/danes-search-missing-private-submarine-off-copenhagen-49152539 >> >> >> >> >> >> It is a fascinating hobby as long as everything works out. >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Beram >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 11 20:29:35 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2017 12:29:35 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <82E1DE9E-FFA9-47C8-AA51-E1447B127078@gmail.com> References: <15dd32cd008-474c-1195e@webprd-a86.mail.aol.com> <5CCE1B44-A70F-4EFB-A17B-E4883A5C0CF3@yahoo.com> <82E1DE9E-FFA9-47C8-AA51-E1447B127078@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4F98FD1B-DCCB-4E9A-8897-122DFEE2C226@yahoo.com> Not looking good; He took the reporter out, & didn't return, so search & rescue was contacted. His sub sunk after he was identified by a light house & radio contact was made. He says he dropped her off on an Island in other reports. The Nautilus set out from Refshale Island, a former shipyard redeveloped as an entertainment and activity spot, at about 7 p.m. local time on Thursday, according to a police timeline. Two helicopters and three ships combed the sea from Copenhagen to the Baltic Sea island of Bornholm after police received the report it had not gotten back to land just after 3:30 a.m. It was spotted by a lighthouse in Koge Bay, a seaport south of the city, at 10:30 a.m. "A radio contact was established for the boat, which, according to the owner, was heading towards the harbor," the police statement said. Half an hour later "the submarine suddenly sank and the owner was subsequently rescued on a private motorboat sailing him in port." Madsen "told us he had technical problems" when asked to explain why the submarine failed to respond to radio contact earlier in the day, Damgaard said. Sent from my iPad > On 12/08/2017, at 10:21 AM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Getting crazier by the minute. I read the boat is in only 7m, which makes no sense if someone was trying to sink it to hide evidence. I hope they get inside to resolve this fast. > > Alec > >> On Aug 11, 2017, at 6:03 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Just found this report where he is being held on suspicion of murder! >> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/submarine-nautilus-peter-madsen-crowdfunding-sank-journalist-missing-a7889251.html >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 12/08/2017, at 9:21 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> So, I've got to ask about this incident because some news reports are saying that a woman died on the sub. Does anybody know the true story about what happened? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> -Ludwig >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Sent: Fri, Aug 11, 2017 4:14 pm >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus >>> >>> I am real sorry to hear that! I presume a recovery plan is in the works? How deep is it sitting? >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> On Friday, August 11, 2017, 12:07:13 PM MDT, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> I can't imagine how disheartening that must be. Particularly with a boat of that magnitude. Peter, I'm just glad you and your companion are safe. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> > On Aug 11, 2017, at 11:16 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> > >>> > Wow. So sorry to hear. Thanks for sharing. >>> > >>> > Thanks, >>> > Steve >>> > >>> > ---- Beram Mahmoud via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >> Hello, >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> well sad news as the UC3 Nautilus sank on a trip. Fortunately nobody was hurt. First information hinds to a fault in the ballast system. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> http://www.independent.ie/world-news/owner-safe-after-private-submarine-sinks-off-denmark-36021818.html >>> >> >>> >> http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/danes-search-missing-private-submarine-off-copenhagen-49152539 >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> It is a fascinating hobby as long as everything works out. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Best regards, >>> >> >>> >> Beram >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 11 22:13:16 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2017 02:13:16 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 Message-ID: Think I've posted this before, but here's how I cool Harold on hot work days. https://www.instagram.com/p/BTboxSyl1eB/ Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 11 23:31:00 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 22:31:00 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 In-Reply-To: <1616606798.186205.1502485621899@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1616606798.186205.1502485621899.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1616606798.186205.1502485621899@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2472AD74-8255-4116-ADF5-B623C19282C0@snyderemail.com> Cool! We could meet up! G > On Aug 11, 2017, at 4:07 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > West Saint Paul > -------------------------------------------- > On Thu, 8/10/17, Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Date: Thursday, August 10, 2017, 6:39 PM > > Pete! > Are you in Minnesota? > Me too. > Minnetrista and Duluth. > >> On Aug 10, 2017, at 6:24 PM, Pete > Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Melbourne ? Try Minnesota. >> > -------------------------------------------- >> On Wed, 8/9/17, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] > Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 >> To: "Personal Submersibles General > Discussion" >> Date: Wednesday, August 9, 2017, > 8:09 PM >> >> Hi >> Steve,ideally a normal air >> conditioner would be better for > cooling, but you have to get >> rid of it's heat somehow. >> I am not sure how the expensive > submersibles do it! Maybe >> there is a >> through hull to an external heat > exchanger. They are also >> noisy, bulky & I could bewrong > but I believe >> G.L. have issues with the gas they > use! If the peltier was >> 25% asefficient as a >> compression unit, & needed 4 x > the power, then that >> might mean havinganother battery > to >> drive it. The bulk & expense > of the battery may even out >> the cost& size comparison >> of the two options. This would be > interesting to >> research!I >> saw a couple of articles that said > the Peltier was up there >> in efficiency with resistive > heating. They >> are used in climate control > modules in both their heating >> &cooling >> functions, & I like this > option for a submersible where >> you can go from one extreme of > temperature >> to another! ( like > Melbourne)Cheers Alanp.s. my daughter loves >> it in Melbourne she has been there > 4 years now! >> >> >> >> Sent >> from my iPad >> On >> 10/08/2017, at 12:14 PM, Stephen > Fordyce via >> Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Hi Alan,Resistive heating being >> about as close as you can get to > 100%, I would be sceptical >> about that. I've experimented with > Peltier modules for >> gas cooling and they were quite > disappointing in >> performance, although wonderfully > simple in >> operation. >> Cheers,Steve >> On 10 Aug 2017 8:33 am, >> "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" > >> wrote: >> Just did some Googling on >> the Peltier as a heater.In >> an experiment I saw it was more > efficient than resistive >> heating!This >> depends to an extent on the > ambient heat >> differential. I >> would imagine you would need to > attach them to the hull >> & surround themwith >> an insulating material to stop the > metal of the hull >> radiating backthe >> cold or heat produced, & force > it to transfer it all to >> the water.Another >> bunny trail to investigate.Cheers >> Alan >> >> Sent from my >> iPad >> On 10/08/2017, at 9:18 AM, >> Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > org> wrote: >> >> Mike,the peltier is only >> 1/4 to 1/3 as efficient as a > compressor system, but >> Cliff& I have very little > spare room. They >> serve as heaters by reversing > polarity.I am not >> sure of their efficiency as > heaters compared with resistive >> coils;probably poor! Cliff > would have to cut a >> hole in his fibreglass outer & > dig backthe >> syntactic foam to the pressure > hull to get cooling on the >> reverse side ofthe peltier or > compressor air >> conditioning unit. Could look sexy > if he put >> someshark gills in it for water >> ingress.Cliff didn't have a cover > on the >> dome, & that would let a lot > of heat in.We >> had a wet towel on Snoopy last > time at >> Islamorada.Have heard that people > like Nuytco use >> a shore based air conditioner to > coolthe sub down >> prior to a dive; but I don't know > how long that benefit >> wouldlast being towed out that >> distance.Cheers Alan >> >> Sent from my >> iPad >> On 10/08/2017, at 6:25 >> AM, peaceroom via > Personal_Submersibles > org> wrote: >> >> >> >> Reference,summer submarine > cooling. A scaled down >> version of the small cooler with > ice and DC fan, similar to >> the one in Sportys, aviation > supplies is what a lot of >> planes use. Just an inexpensive > idea. Peltier coolers >> provide very little cooling versus > DC current used. Mike >> Patterson >> >> >> Sent from my Samsung >> device >> >> -------- >> Original message -------- >> From: via >> Personal_Submersibles > org> >> Date: 8/9/17 11:46 AM >> (GMT-05:00) >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs. >> org >> Subject: Personal_Submersibles >> Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 >> >> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing > list >> submissions to >> personal_submersibles at psubs. >> org >> >> To subscribe or >> unsubscribe via the World Wide > Web, visit >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/ >> listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles >> or, >> via email, send a message with > subject or body >> 'help' to >> > personal_submersibles-request@ >> psubs.org >> >> You can reach >> the person managing the list at >> > personal_submersibles-owner@ >> psubs.org >> >> When >> replying, please edit your Subject > line so it is more >> specific >> than "Re: Contents of >> Personal_Submersibles digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Islamorada > Trip >> Report... >> (Cliff Redus > via >> Personal_Submersibles) >> 2. Re: >> Islamorada Trip Report... >> (james >> cottrell via > Personal_Submersibles) >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> ------------------------------ > ---------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 08:03:07 > -0500 >> From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles >> > org> >> To: Personal Submersibles >> General Discussion >> > org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] >> Islamorada Trip Report... >> Message-ID: >> > > 6x2d9fKdaCW1uND2psz=ncVoQ9cg@ > mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; >> charset="utf-8" >> >> Footage from my sub on the trip is > limited due >> to condensation on >> viewport. I used Dove >> soap on the viewport interior > prior to taking off >> but because of the humidity , > temperature and >> duration of the dive, this >> treatment did not >> last and I did not have more soap > on board. The other >> issue is I only had two hand > towels on board >> and these became soaked with >> sweat. As >> such, they were not good for > cleaning the condensation off >> after >> the two hour tow to the dive site. > >> Action items: Have small > bottle of >> Dove >> soap on board and more towels for > future long duration >> dives. >> >> Yes, I have been >> reading up on peltier > coolers. I have quite a bit of >> battery capacity so this could > work. >> Unfortunately, mounting on hull > won't >> work for me as I have syntactic > foam under the >> FRP shell over the hull so I >> don't have >> a cool surface to mount on. > I do have a pair of plugged >> off >> ports on the bottom of the boat > that >> would give me access to cooling > water >> source >> if I installed a small pump on > this circuit. Pushing this >> water >> through a small fin-fan cooler > like >> you would see on water cooled >> motorcycle >> would help with the temperature > some what but not >> humidity. At >> Islamorada, the average >> water temperature at the time of > the dive was about >> 87F so this would not have helped > all that >> much. A small DC AC system > that >> controlled >> both temperature and humidity > would be better. >> >> On the thruster pneumatic >> pressure compensation, I was very > happy with how >> this worked. I have all four > of my thrusters >> connected to 1/4" SS tubing >> that is >> manifold into a single pressure > reducing/relieving >> regulator >> (thanks Hugh) under the > cover >> just aft of the pilot. I was not > sure if a >> single regulator would work or if > I would need >> one for each thruster but it >> looks like one >> was adequate. I have had two > deep dives with the >> arrangement, one to 155 ft and one > to 100 ft >> and have had no issues with >> water in the >> thrusters. >> >> Best Regards >> >> Cliff >> >> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, > Alan via >> Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs. >> org> wrote: >> >>> >> Thanks Cliff, >>> I presume you shot some >> footage from your sub & this > is the entr?e! >>> Nice & clear, you must > have been >> pretty happy down there! >>> After you >> mentioned air conditioning, I > looked into peltier elements >> & >>> air conditioning units. The >> peltier conditioners have only 25% > the >>> >> efficiency >>> of a normal compression >> cycle system, but are really small > & by reversing >>> the polarity can act as > heaters. A few of >> those peltier elements stuck to >>> the >> hull >>> with air channelled past them >> might be the way to go! Not sure > what >>> >> batteries you >>> are using, but the new >> battery technologies on the way > will make energy >>> expenditure less of an issue! >>> Do you have all 4 motors > exhausting >> through one regulator? Couldn't > see >>> >> any >>> air coming out of the motor > seals >> so the pressure isn't building up > too >>> much >>> when >> exhausting. >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 >> AM, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs. >> org> wrote: >>> >>> >> Added two quick and dirty Youtube > videos from 2017 Psubs >> Regatta. The >>> first is the 100 ft dive >> 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3 >>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch? >> v=sHqL49V0lMw and the second is a > night >>> dive in front of Doug's > house https://www.youtube.com/watch? >> v=KDBw1ZOdKaI. >>> Alec is working on a >> more comprehensive video of the > Regatta. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 >> at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs. >> org> wrote: >>> >>>> Greetings PSUBS group, > Douglas Suhr >> here to share my take on the > 4-day >>>> >> sub operation we just completed in > Islamorada, FL (July >> 31st, August >>>> 1-3). >>>> >>>> Wow, what a >> whirlwind! So July 31st was really > an arrival / setup day >>>> with August 1-3 being true > operational >> days. Though it was unfortunate >>>> >> that Alec wasn't able to make it > with Shackleton, we had >> our hands >>>> full with Cliff's >> R-300. Without Shackleton, we also > had enough time >>>> to get Snoopy set up and > lowered into >> the canal for some basic diving. >>>> >>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, > Steve >> McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick > Maxwell, >>>> >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, > Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>>> >>>> This was my >> first time meeting Dan Lance, a > (retired) saturation >> diver >>>> and commercial welder. > What a >> pleasure to have him join us on > this >>>> operation. Dan is modest, > but most >> willing to share his knowledge > and >>>> >> extensive experience with a newbie > like me. So pleased to >> have chatted >>>> with him in the Keys. >> During the towing of the R-300, > Dan manned the >>>> tow line and helped with > comms. >>>> >>>> Steve McQueen >> and River Dolfi did awesome jobs > as our frog men. >>>> Filming, attaching / > detaching davit >> and tow lines, etc. they were >>>> both >> in and out of the water quite a > bit (especially Steve). I >> think >>>> River took a little jelly >> sting for the team. What > troopers! >>>> >>>> Cliff and his >> assistant Rick are such a joy be > around. Rick is one of >>>> the friendliest people > you'll ever >> meet (and even brought a gift for >>>> >> the group: a watermelon, straight > from Texas!). Cliff is >> always >>>> willing to share his >> expertise (and sub, too) with > anyone who'd like >>>> to learn more. I know that > between Dan >> Lance and Cliff, I learned more >>>> >> than I can remember last week. >>>> >>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad > and myself >> were all just providing whatever >>>> >> kind of "troop support" we could > to Cliff and the >> R-300. >>>> >>>> >> River, Steve and Myself got in > some dive time on Snoopy in >> the canal >>>> (which was great), but I >> think the biggest accomplishment > was getting >>>> the R-300 out a ways into > the >> ocean. >>>> >>>> Our >> Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a > single 250hp Yamaha) >> was able to >>>> tow the R-300 out about >> 5 miles into the ocean (at about > 4mph). We >>>> were in radio > communication with Cliff >> most of the time, though we did >>>> >> suffer a few intermittent losses > in comms. When we got to a >> spot about >>>> 100 feet deep, we >> started to slow down a bit and at > that point the tow >>>> line hook (an admittedly > cheap thing) >> let loose(!) so we decided that >>>> we >> had reached our dive location. We > switched from marine radio >> to OTS >>>> and Cliff started down. >> Visibility was supurb! As Cliff > neared the >>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, > he was still >> quite visible from the Whaler! >>>> His >> 18 foot long R-300 looked to be > about 3 inches long, but wow >> did >>>> it ever stand out from the > rest >> of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent > about >>>> an hour "flying" his sub, >> surfacing, diving and maneuvering > about, >>>> testing systems and > observing the >> ocean around him. By the time > Cliff >>>> >> surfaced and we towed back to port > Antigua, elapsed time >> stood at 4.5 >>>> / 5 hours (estimate). >> Cliff said that he stayed cool by > the water >>>> flowing over the sub's > dome hatch >> while in tow. Upon returning I > think >>>> we were all ready to take > a break, but >> everyone felt great >>>> accomplishment >> with the mission. >>>> >>>> A couple of lessons I took > away from >> the tow out: We need better tow >>>> >> equipment (better line, hardware > and maybe a quick release). >> Our boat >>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still >> don't have one). Towing into waves > isn't so >>>> much a problem, but when > towing with >> the waves, our tow line needs to >>>> be >> measured so as to sustain the > proper distance between tow >> vessel >>>> and sub (otherwise the > sub >> and boat are constantly slacking > and then >>>> jerking, stressing the tow > line and >> making it difficult for boat and >>>> >> sub to track straight). >>>> >>>> The devotion of our crew > was amazing, >> even in the heat and the waves >>>> >> everyone did their jobs. Managing > even a small sub operation >> like this >>>> is more work / effort >> than meets the eye, that's for > sure. At dinner, >>>> one of the main > discussions revolved >> around a support vessel that can >>>> >> carry a sub or two on board, > eliminating the slow, time >> consuming tow >>>> out to an ocean dive >> site. Dan Lance shared details on > his support >>>> vessel project, which is > no doubt >> going to be a dream in terms of >>>> >> logistics. Hopefully when said > vessel is ready to sail, Dan >> will lend >>>> its services to host a >> diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>>> >>>> > ______________________________ >> _________________ >>>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing > list >>>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >> org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >> listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles >>>> >>> >>> > ______________________________ >> _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >> org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >> listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles >>> >>> >>> >> ______________________________ > _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing > list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >> org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >> listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles >>> >>> >> -------------- next part > -------------- >> An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... >> URL: > pipermail/personal_ > submersibles/attachments/ >> 20170809/ea2b1476/attachment- > 0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 15:46:22 > +0000 (UTC) >> From: james cottrell via >> Personal_Submersibles >> > org> >> To: Personal Submersibles >> General Discussion >> > org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] >> Islamorada Trip Report... >> Message-ID: > <1907666847.421009. >> 1502293582178 at mail.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; >> charset="utf-8" >> >> Hi Cliff, >> Congrats on your >> dives. Sub really looks great in > those videos. >> With regards to an AC solution, > one low tech >> method would be to blow air across > ice in a small cooler. >> Water ice can be super cooled with > Dry Ice the night before. >> Dry ice is about - 100 F and water > ice cooled to this >> temperature should stay cold for > quite some time. >> Greg C From: > Cliff Redus via >> Personal_Submersibles > org> >> To: Personal Submersibles >> General Discussion > org> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 9, >> 2017 9:05 AM >> Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] >> Islamorada Trip Report... >> >> Footage from my sub on the trip is > limited due >> to condensation on viewport.? I > used Dove soap on the >> viewport interior?prior to taking > off but because of the >> humidity , temperature and > duration of the dive, this >> treatment did not last and I did > not have more soap on >> board.? The other issue is I only > had two hand towels on >> board and these became soaked with > sweat.? As such, they >> were not good for cleaning the > condensation off?after the >> two hour tow to the dive site.? > Action items:? Have small >> bottle of Dove soap on board and > more towels for future long >> duration dives.? >> Yes, I have been reading >> up on peltier coolers.? I have > quite a bit of battery >> capacity so this could work.? > Unfortunately, mounting on >> hull won't work for me as I have > syntactic foam under >> the FRP shell over the hull so I > don't have a cool >> surface to mount on.? I do have a > pair of plugged off ports >> on the bottom of the boat that > would give me access to >> cooling water source if I > installed a small pump on this >> circuit.? Pushing this water > through a small fin-fan cooler >> like you would see on?water cooled > motorcycle would help >> with the temperature some what but > not?humidity.? ?At >> Islamorada, the average water > temperature at the time of the >> dive was about 87F so this would > not have helped all that >> much.? A small DC AC system that > controlled both temperature >> and humidity would be better. >> On the >> thruster pneumatic pressure > compensation, I was very happy >> with how this worked.? I have all > four of my thrusters >> connected to 1/4" SS tubing that > is manifold into a >> single pressure reducing/relieving > regulator (thanks Hugh) >> ?under the cover just aft of the > pilot.?I was not sure if a >> single regulator would work or if > I would need one for each >> thruster but it looks like one was > adequate.? I have had two >> deep dives with the arrangement, > one to 155 ft and one to >> 100 ft and have had no issues with > water in the >> thrusters. >> Best Regards >> Cliff >> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at >> 10:50 PM, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > org> wrote: >> >> Thanks >> Cliff,I presume you shot some > footage from your sub & >> this is the entr?e!Nice & > clear, you must have been >> pretty happy down there!After you > mentioned air >> conditioning, I looked into > peltier elements &air >> conditioning units. The peltier > conditioners have only 25% >> the efficiency?of a normal > compression cycle system, but are >> really small & by reversingthe > polarity can act as >> heaters. A few of those peltier > elements stuck to the >> hull?with air channelled past them > might be the way to go! >> Not sure what batteries youare > using, but the new battery >> technologies on the way will make > energyexpenditure less of >> an issue!Do you have all 4 motors > exhausting through one >> regulator? Couldn't see any?air > coming out of the motor >> seals so the pressure isn't > building up too muchwhen >> exhausting.Cheers Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> On 9/08/2017, >> at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles >> org> wrote: >> >> >> Added two >> quick and dirty Youtube videos > from 2017 Psubs Regatta.? The >> first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles > offshore on Aug 3??https://www.youtube.com/ >> watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw?and the second > is a night dive in front >> of Doug's > house??https://www.youtube. >> com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI.? Alec is > working on a more >> comprehensive video of the > Regatta. >> Regards >> Cliff >> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, > Douglas Suhr >> via Personal_Submersibles > org> wrote: >> >> Greetings >> PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to > share my take on the >> 4-day >> sub operation we just completed > in >> Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >> 1-3). >> >> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July >> 31st was really an arrival / setup > day >> with >> August 1-3 being true operational > days. Though it was >> unfortunate >> that Alec wasn't able to >> make it with Shackleton, we had > our hands >> full with Cliff's R-300. Without >> Shackleton, we also had enough > time >> to get >> Snoopy set up and lowered into the > canal for some basic >> diving. >> >> List of Crew: Dan >> Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, > Rick Maxwell, >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, > Sarah, >> Douglas Suhr. >> >> This was my >> first time meeting Dan Lance, a > (retired) saturation >> diver >> and commercial welder. What a > pleasure >> to have him join us on this >> operation. Dan >> is modest, but most willing to > share his knowledge and >> extensive experience with a newbie > like me. So >> pleased to have chatted >> with him in the >> Keys. During the towing of the > R-300, Dan manned the >> tow line and helped with comms. >> >> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi >> did awesome jobs as our frog men. >> Filming, >> attaching / detaching davit and > tow lines, etc. they were >> both in and out of the water quite > a bit >> (especially Steve). I think >> River took a >> little jelly sting for the team. > What troopers! >> >> Cliff and his assistant Rick >> are such a joy be around. Rick is > one of >> the >> friendliest people you'll ever > meet (and even brought a >> gift for >> the group: a watermelon, straight >> from Texas!). Cliff is always >> willing to >> share his expertise (and sub, too) > with anyone who'd >> like >> to learn more. I know that between > Dan >> Lance and Cliff, I learned more >> than I can >> remember last week. >> >> Mike >> Patterson, mom, dad and myself > were all just providing >> whatever >> kind of "troop support" >> we could to Cliff and the R-300. >> >> River, Steve and Myself got in > some dive time >> on Snoopy in the canal >> (which was great), >> but I think the biggest > accomplishment was getting >> the R-300 out a ways into the > ocean. >> >> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' >> boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) > was able to >> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles > into the ocean >> (at about 4mph). We >> were in radio >> communication with Cliff most of > the time, though we did >> suffer a few intermittent losses > in comms. When >> we got to a spot about >> 100 feet deep, we >> started to slow down a bit and at > that point the tow >> line hook (an admittedly cheap > thing) let >> loose(!) so we decided that >> we had reached >> our dive location. We switched > from marine radio to OTS >> and Cliff started down. Visibility > was supurb! >> As Cliff neared the >> bottom at 100 ? 110 >> feet, he was still quite visible > from the Whaler! >> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to > be about 3 >> inches long, but wow did >> it ever stand out >> from the rest of the sandy bottom. > Cliff spent about >> an hour "flying" his sub, > surfacing, >> diving and maneuvering about, >> testing >> systems and observing the ocean > around him. By the time >> Cliff >> surfaced and we towed back to > port >> Antigua, elapsed time stood at > 4.5 >> / 5 hours >> (estimate). Cliff said that he > stayed cool by the water >> flowing over the sub's dome hatch > while in >> tow. Upon returning I think >> we were all >> ready to take a break, but > everyone felt great >> accomplishment with the mission. >> >> A couple of lessons I took >> away from the tow out: We need > better tow >> equipment (better line, hardware > and maybe a >> quick release). Our boat >> REALLY needs a GPS >> (still don't have one). Towing > into waves isn't >> so >> much a problem, but when towing > with the >> waves, our tow line needs to >> be measured so >> as to sustain the proper distance > between tow vessel >> and sub (otherwise the sub and > boat are >> constantly slacking and then >> jerking, >> stressing the tow line and making > it difficult for boat >> and >> sub to track straight). >> >> The devotion of our crew was >> amazing, even in the heat and the > waves >> everyone did their jobs. Managing > even a small >> sub operation like this >> is more work / >> effort than meets the eye, that's > for sure. At >> dinner, >> one of the main discussions > revolved >> around a support vessel that can >> carry a sub >> or two on board, eliminating the > slow, time consuming tow >> out to an ocean dive site. Dan > Lance shared >> details on his support >> vessel project, which >> is no doubt going to be a dream in > terms of >> logistics. Hopefully when said > vessel is ready >> to sail, Dan will lend >> its services to host >> a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >> >> ______________________________ >> _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or >> g >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l >> istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib > les >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________ >> _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >> org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >> listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ >> _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >> org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >> listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles >> >> >> >> ______________________________ >> _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >> org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >> listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles >> >> >> >> >> | | Virus-free. > www.avast.com | >> >> -------------- next part >> -------------- >> An HTML attachment was >> scrubbed... >> URL: > pipermail/personal_ > submersibles/attachments/ >> 20170809/1374ba08/attachment. > html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> ______________________________ >> _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >> org >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/ >> listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of Personal_Submersibles >> Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19 >> ****************************** >> *********************** >> ______________________________ >> _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing >> list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >> org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >> listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles >> ______________________________ >> _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing >> list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >> org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >> listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles >> >> ______________________________ >> _________________ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing > list >> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >> org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >> listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing >> list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing > list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> -----Inline Attachment > Follows----- >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing > list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 12 03:03:00 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2017 09:03:00 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <15dd3672e47-474c-11bc3@webprd-a86.mail.aol.com> References: <201708112218.v7BMIcMm018464@whoweb.com> <15dd3672e47-474c-11bc3@webprd-a86.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <1502521380538.7922379.ed6c0c4f8ccde1cd21b10f42b594c97e2e498276@spica.telekom.de> Gentelmens,- a real submariner would just silence - and wait 48 hours. I am with Ludwig - dont thrust newspapers to much. At the moment the hole story gives not a clear picture or even makes any sences, The answer at the end will be as allways - simple. Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus Datum: 2017-08-12T00:27:43+0200 Von: "via Personal_Submersibles" An: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" Thanks for the update! By tomorrow, everything should hopefully be clearer. I hope everybody here is smart enough not to believe what the news is saying until the official police report gets posted. -Ludwig -----Original Message----- From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Fri, Aug 11, 2017 5:19 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus My electrical engineer is in Denmark and knows him well and is currently there. The submarine sunk in very shallow water (like 7 meters). There was a female new reporter on board. After they were rescued he took her home then she was reported missing. Everything is currently under investigation. -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 8/11/17 5:03 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus Just found this report where he is being held on suspicion of murder! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/submarine-nautilus-peter-madsen-crowdfunding-sank-journalist-missing-a7889251.html Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/08/2017, at 9:21 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: So, I've got to ask about this incident because some news reports are saying that a woman died on the sub. Does anybody know the true story about what happened? Thanks, -Ludwig -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Sent: Fri, Aug 11, 2017 4:14 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus I am real sorry to hear that! I presume a recovery plan is in the works? How deep is it sitting? Hank On Friday, August 11, 2017, 12:07:13 PM MDT, Private via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I can't imagine how disheartening that must be. Particularly with a boat of that magnitude. Peter, I'm just glad you and your companion are safe. Best, Alec > On Aug 11, 2017, at 11:16 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Wow. So sorry to hear. Thanks for sharing. > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Beram Mahmoud via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: >> Hello, >> >> >> >> well sad news as the UC3 Nautilus sank on a trip. Fortunately nobody was hurt. First information hinds to a fault in the ballast system. >> >> >> >> http://www.independent.ie/world-news/owner-safe-after-private-submarine-sinks-off-denmark-36021818.html >> >> http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/danes-search-missing-private-submarine-off-copenhagen-49152539 >> >> >> >> >> >> It is a fascinating hobby as long as everything works out. >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Beram >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 12 10:38:21 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2017 14:38:21 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 29 Message-ID: Because I'm always looking to tinker, ordered one of these to play with. The wall of Harold should be an adequate heat sink. IF it is sufficiently useful (maybe I'll end up needing two), I can play with my new thermoforming machine and make a case to catch the condensate. I'll let you know after the one month shipping time from China. LOL http://www.ebay.com/itm/272750373823 Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 12 11:57:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2017 03:57:43 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 29 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Brian, it's a little difficult to work out but I think it is supposed to be mounted so the the bottom section is outside of the unit that is to be cooled. They say it can be used on a home made refrigerator, so the cooling portion would be inside & heat dissipating section outside. So no go for a sub. You would be better to just buy two 70W peltiers at $3- each & glue them on your sub wall with air flowing over them. Also this looks like it would be under powered for the area you want to cool. I would appreciate any feedback on it as I am seriously considering peltiers for dehumidifying & air conditioning! Cheers Alan. Sent from my iPad > On 13/08/2017, at 2:38 AM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Because I'm always looking to tinker, ordered one of these to play with. The wall of Harold should be an adequate heat sink. IF it is sufficiently useful (maybe I'll end up needing two), I can play with my new thermoforming machine and make a case to catch the condensate. I'll let you know after the one month shipping time from China. LOL > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/272750373823 > > > > Get Outlook for Android > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 12 12:07:33 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2017 16:07:33 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 29 Message-ID: Hence the purchase to experiment. It looks to me that the smaller fans are the heat removing fans and the larger ones and area move air across the cooled heat sink. And if not, the peltiers can be flipped over. Remove the smaller heat sinks and their fans and put up against the bulkhead is the idea. Likely can't cool the whole sub, but cool air blowing directly on me would he a start. Might be small enough to mount forward with air coming right at me, like a car AC. I do like the suggestion it can also be used for a pet freezer. Poor pupppy! Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 12 14:46:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2017 13:46:53 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: <20170810153530.86187422@m0117566.ppops.net> References: <20170810153530.86187422@m0117566.ppops.net> Message-ID: *Brian, sorry for taking so long to respond. With being gone last week, I have been buried.* *Yes, ABS rules require 18? minimum freeboard and the R300 has about 8? thus fails this test. Having said, that all of the ?flyer? subs including Sgt. Pepper, DeepFlight, DeepFlight Super Falcon, DeepFlight Challenger, as well as small subs like the Deepworker 2000, Dual Deepworker, Exosuit and Orcasub all would fail this freeboard test so I find myself in excellent company. Micro subs designed to be flyers find it almost impossible to meet this 18? freeboard constraint. To mitigate the very real risk of flooding the hull on flyers, most designers rely on an operating strategy that allows hatch opening only in a safe controlled environment. As example, for the ocean side dives I did offshore Islamorada, we only opened the hatch when we were connected to the davits. For lake dives I have found you can get in and out of the boat if you are careful but must still pay attention to boat traffic. * *I accept as a reasonable tradeoff the issues associated with low freeboard in exchange for being able to fly under the water. Some do not. * *Best Regards* *Cliff* On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 5:35 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, Don't you need at least 18" of freeboard or there abouts > for ABS rules? > > Brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 14:54:25 -0500 > > Brian due to the low freeboard, for safety reasons NOP is to never open > the hatch at sea. > > Best Regards > > Cliff > > On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 11:59 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, > Would it have been possible to enter the sub once you where at > the dive site. Just tow it out there unmanned? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 16:03:45 -0500 > > Lights performed great! These 5K lumen lights are very bright. I have > four on the boat two pointing forward and two to the side. The lights > would illuminate the water around the boat very nicely. Also can run the > lights indefinitely out of the water. After the night dive when the boat > was on the dock, we used the sub lights to light up all around the sub so > we could secure it for the night. I need to look at my data to see what > the measured current was for all four lights but I? know it was low . > Flood orientation worked great. At the base, I had better vis at night on > the bottom with lights than in day without. Also fish are attracted to > light. > > Best Regard > > Cliff > > On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Cliff, How did the lights perform ? > > Pete > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 8/9/17, irox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>, "Personal Submersibles General > Discussion" > Date: Wednesday, August 9, 2017, 2:10 PM > > > I'm sure you're > thinking of this as well, but dry ice, if not complete > separated from the thing it's cooling, can sometimes > infuse the object being cooled with CO2, which gets released > when the object heats up/melts again. Possibly this is > going to very minor and handled by the scrubber, but > avoiding the unnecessary introduction of CO2 into the hull > may be better (e.g. ensuring there is no CO2 transferred to > the cooling material). > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > > > Sent: Aug 9, 2017 11:16 AM > > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada > Trip Report... > > > > Thanks > James. I know on the first Psub convention in Islamorada > four years ago, Snoopy was towed out with bags of ice for > cooling. I like the idea of using the dry ice to super > cool the water. I will have to give this some > thought. > Regards > Cliff > On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at > 10:46 AM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote: > Hi > Cliff, > Congrats > on your dives. Sub really looks great in those > videos. > With > regards to an AC solution, one low tech method would be to > blow air across ice in a small cooler. Water ice can be > super cooled with Dry Ice the night before. Dry ice is about > - 100 F and water ice cooled to this temperature should stay > cold for quite some time. > Greg C > From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion org> > Sent: Wednesday, August > 9, 2017 9:05 AM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > > > Footage > from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on > viewport. I used Dove soap on the viewport interior prior > to taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and > duration of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did > not have more soap on board. The other issue is I only had > two hand towels on board and these became soaked with > sweat. As such, they were not good for cleaning the > condensation off after the two hour tow to the dive site. > Action items: Have small bottle of Dove soap on board and > more towels for future long duration dives. > Yes, > I have been reading up on peltier coolers. I have quite a > bit of battery capacity so this could work. Unfortunately, > mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic > foam under the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a > cool surface to mount on. I do have a pair of plugged off > ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to > cooling water source if I installed a small pump on this > circuit. Pushing this water through a small fin-fan cooler > like you would see on water cooled motorcycle would help > with the temperature some what but not humidity. At > Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the > dive was about 87F so this would not have helped all that > much. A small DC AC system that controlled both > temperature and humidity would be better. > On > the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very > happy with how this worked. I have all four of my > thrusters connected to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold > into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator (thanks > Hugh) under the cover just aft of the pilot. I was not > sure if a single regulator would work or if I would need one > for each thruster but it looks like one was adequate. I > have had two deep dives with the arrangement, one to 155 ft > and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water in the > thrusters. > Best > Regards > Cliff > On > Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > org> wrote: > Thanks > Cliff,I > presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is > the entr?e!Nice > & clear, you must have been pretty happy down > there!After > you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier > elements &air > conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% > the efficiency of > a normal compression cycle system, but are really small > & by reversingthe > polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier elements > stuck to the hull with > air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure > what batteries youare > using, but the new battery technologies on the way will make > energyexpenditure > less of an issue!Do > you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? > Couldn't see any air > coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't > building up too muchwhen > exhausting.Cheers > Alan > > > Sent from my > iPad > On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, > Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from > 2017 Psubs Regatta. The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles > offshore on Aug 3 https://www.youtube.com/ > watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw and the second is a night > dive in front of Doug's house https://www.youtube. > com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI. Alec is working on a > more comprehensive video of the > Regatta. > Regards > Cliff > On > Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > Greetings > PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the > 4-day > > sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July > 31st, August > > 1-3). > > > > Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / > setup day > > with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was > unfortunate > > that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had > our hands > > full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had > enough time > > to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some > basic diving. > > > > List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick > Maxwell, > > River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. > > > > This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) > saturation diver > > and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us > on this > > operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his > knowledge and > > extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to > have chatted > > with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan > manned the > > tow line and helped with comms. > > > > Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog > men. > > Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. > they were > > both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). > I think > > River took a little jelly sting for the team. What > troopers! > > > > Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick > is one of > > the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even > brought a gift for > > the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is > always > > willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone > who'd like > > to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I > learned more > > than I can remember last week. > > > > Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing > whatever > > kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the > R-300. > > > > River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in > the canal > > (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment > was getting > > the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. > > > > Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp > Yamaha) was able to > > tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about > 4mph). We > > were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, > though we did > > suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a > spot about > > 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that > point the tow > > line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we > decided that > > we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine > radio to OTS > > and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff > neared the > > bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from > the Whaler! > > His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but > wow did > > it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff > spent about > > an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and > maneuvering about, > > testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the > time Cliff > > surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time > stood at 4.5 > > / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the > water > > flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon > returning I think > > we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt > great > > accomplishment with the mission. > > > > A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need > better tow > > equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). > Our boat > > REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into > waves isn't so > > much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line > needs to > > be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow > vessel > > and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking > and then > > jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for > boat and > > sub to track straight). > > > > The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and > the waves > > everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation > like this > > is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for > sure. At dinner, > > one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel > that can > > carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time > consuming tow > > out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his > support > > vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in > terms of > > logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan > will lend > > its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or > g > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l > istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > ______________________________ > _________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > ______________________________ > _________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 12 17:12:32 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2017 09:12:32 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 29 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7023B447-9899-41CC-A80B-A5A089FF0732@yahoo.com> Brian, I am going to buy some more 12V Peltiers & join 3 in parrallel for my 36V system. I am toying with the idea of putting 3 sets of 3 in line ( 540W) inside a channel, so that air moving through will get progressively cooler & it's moisture will be removed. I have a host of stuff I have bought & tinkered with then never used. I believe your cooler comes in a kit & the sum of the parts is still good value. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 13/08/2017, at 4:07 AM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hence the purchase to experiment. It looks to me that the smaller fans are the heat removing fans and the larger ones and area move air across the cooled heat sink. And if not, the peltiers can be flipped over. Remove the smaller heat sinks and their fans and put up against the bulkhead is the idea. Likely can't cool the whole sub, but cool air blowing directly on me would he a start. Might be small enough to mount forward with air coming right at me, like a car AC. I do like the suggestion it can also be used for a pet freezer. Poor pupppy! > > > > Get Outlook for Android > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 12 22:05:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2017 02:05:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 29 In-Reply-To: <7023B447-9899-41CC-A80B-A5A089FF0732@yahoo.com> References: <7023B447-9899-41CC-A80B-A5A089FF0732@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1642046270.605311.1502589956338@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, For a 36v system, you would want to put 3 12v Peltiers in series, not parallel.??Al Secor From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 5:12 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 29 Brian,I am going to buy some more 12V Peltiers & join 3 in parrallel for my 36Vsystem. ?I am toying with the idea of putting 3 sets of 3 in line ( 540W) inside?a channel, so that air moving through will get progressively cooler & it'smoisture will be removed.?? ?I have a host of stuff I have bought & tinkered with then never used.?I believe your cooler comes in a kit & the sum of the parts is still good value.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/08/2017, at 4:07 AM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hence the purchase to experiment. It looks to me that the smaller fans are the heat removing fans and the larger ones and area move air across the cooled heat sink. And if not, the peltiers can be flipped over. Remove the smaller heat sinks and their fans and put up against the bulkhead is the idea. Likely can't cool the whole sub, but cool air blowing directly on me would he a start. Might be small enough to mount forward with air coming right at me, like a car AC. I do like the suggestion it can also be used for a pet freezer. Poor pupppy! Get Outlook for Android _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 12 23:09:21 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2017 20:09:21 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Message-ID: <20170812200921.871C831B@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 12 23:57:37 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2017 15:57:37 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 29 In-Reply-To: <1642046270.605311.1502589956338@mail.yahoo.com> References: <7023B447-9899-41CC-A80B-A5A089FF0732@yahoo.com> <1642046270.605311.1502589956338@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4CF7F5F7-DEF5-437D-9E1E-FCA6D389D942@yahoo.com> Al, thanks, yes! I am in the process of ordering 10 of these from China; it's looking like I can buy 10 from there for the price of 1 locally ( including freight) Alan Sent from my iPad > On 13/08/2017, at 2:05 PM, Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > > For a 36v system, you would want to put 3 12v Peltiers in series, not parallel. > > Al Secor > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 5:12 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 29 > > Brian, > I am going to buy some more 12V Peltiers & join 3 in parrallel for my 36V > system. I am toying with the idea of putting 3 sets of 3 in line ( 540W) inside > a channel, so that air moving through will get progressively cooler & it's > moisture will be removed. > I have a host of stuff I have bought & tinkered with then never used. > I believe your cooler comes in a kit & the sum of the parts is still good value. > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 13/08/2017, at 4:07 AM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > > Hence the purchase to experiment. It looks to me that the smaller fans are the heat removing fans and the larger ones and area move air across the cooled heat sink. And if not, the peltiers can be flipped over. Remove the smaller heat sinks and their fans and put up against the bulkhead is the idea. Likely can't cool the whole sub, but cool air blowing directly on me would he a start. Might be small enough to mount forward with air coming right at me, like a car AC. I do like the suggestion it can also be used for a pet freezer. Poor pupppy! > > > > Get Outlook for Android > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 13 09:49:55 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2017 13:49:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus References: <398298995.883196.1502632195531.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <398298995.883196.1502632195531@mail.yahoo.com> Latest news from copenhagen is that no body found on submarine. It was raised and forensic investigation performed. Newspaper claims officials have determined Madsen intentionally sunk the vessel. I'm not sure how they could determine intent forensically without admission, might just be speculation. No body in the sub, but reporter still missing. World attention...I have to ask...is it possible this is a publicity Stunt? I have read Peter seems to be having a difficult time managing his rocket projects and his latest crowd-funding attempt to refurbish Nautilus was not very successful. I suspect he's got worldwide attention for his projects now. -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 8/11/17, Alan via ? wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Friday, August 11, 2017, 8:29 PM Not looking good; He took the reporter out, & didn't return, so search &rescue was contacted. His sub sunk after he was identified by a light house& radio contact was made. He says he dropped her off on an Island in otherreports. The Nautilus set out from Refshale Island, a former shipyard redeveloped as an entertainment and activity spot, at about 7 p.m. local time on Thursday, according to a police timeline. Two helicopters and three ships combed the sea from Copenhagen to the Baltic Sea island of Bornholm after police received the report it had not gotten back to land just after 3:30 a.m. It was spotted by a lighthouse in Koge Bay, a seaport south of the city, at 10:30 a.m."A radio contact was established for the boat, which, according to the owner, was heading towards the harbor," the police statement said. Half an hour later "the submarine suddenly sank and the owner was subsequently rescued on a private motorboat sailing him in port."Madsen "told us he had technical problems" when asked to explain why the submarine failed to respond to radio contact earlier in the day, Damgaard said. Sent from my iPad On 12/08/2017, at 10:21 AM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Getting crazier by the minute. I read the boat is in only 7m, which makes no sense if someone was trying to sink it to hide evidence. I hope they get inside to resolve this fast. Alec On Aug 11, 2017, at 6:03 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just found this report where he is being held on suspicion of murder!http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/submarine-nautilus-peter-madsen-crowdfunding-sank-journalist-missing-a7889251.htmlAlan Sent from my iPad On 12/08/2017, at 9:21 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: So, I've got to ask about this incident because some news reports are saying that a woman died on the sub. ?Does anybody know the true story about what happened? Thanks, -Ludwig -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Fri, Aug 11, 2017 4:14 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus I am real sorry to hear that! ?I presume a recovery plan is in the works? ?How deep is it sitting? Hank On Friday, August 11, 2017, 12:07:13 PM MDT, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I can't imagine how disheartening that must be. Particularly with a boat of that magnitude. Peter, I'm just glad you and your companion are safe. Best, Alec > On Aug 11, 2017, at 11:16 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Wow. So sorry to hear. Thanks for sharing. > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Beram Mahmoud via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hello, >> >> >> >> well sad news as the UC3 Nautilus sank on a trip. Fortunately nobody was hurt. First information hinds to a fault? in the ballast system. >> >> >> >> http://www.independent.ie/world-news/owner-safe-after-private-submarine-sinks-off-denmark-36021818.html >> >> http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/danes-search-missing-private-submarine-off-copenhagen-49152539 >> >> >> >> >> >> It is a fascinating hobby as long as everything works out. >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Beram >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 13 12:16:24 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2017 18:16:24 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <398298995.883196.1502632195531@mail.yahoo.com> References: <398298995.883196.1502632195531.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <398298995.883196.1502632195531@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1502640984921.2521318.6de5d1b8302ae6bb756f548c808eed45df1ee831@spica.telekom.de> Hi Jon, is still a little to early - but this statement below concerns me a lot and looks not so good: ---- Kristian Isbak, who had responded to the navy?s call to help locate the ship, sailed out immediately Friday and saw Madsen standing wearing his trademark military fatigues in the submarine?s tower while it was still afloat. ?He then climbed down inside the submarine and there was then some kind of air flow coming up and the submarine started to sink,? Isbak said. ?[He] came up again and stayed in the tower until water came into it?, before swimming to a nearby boat as the submarine sank, he added. ---- If this was just a stunt it will cost hunderthousands for the raising of the wreck, the investigation , the search mission with ships and helicopters etc.etc. I think we can rule this out. I think in the next days we will learn if the ballasttanks valves were open or close and working or not. vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus Datum: 2017-08-13T15:56:30+0200 Von: "Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Latest news from copenhagen is that no body found on submarine. It was raised and forensic investigation performed. Newspaper claims officials have determined Madsen intentionally sunk the vessel. I'm not sure how they could determine intent forensically without admission, might just be speculation. No body in the sub, but reporter still missing. World attention...I have to ask...is it possible this is a publicity Stunt? I have read Peter seems to be having a difficult time managing his rocket projects and his latest crowd-funding attempt to refurbish Nautilus was not very successful. I suspect he's got worldwide attention for his projects now. -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 8/11/17, Alan via ? wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Friday, August 11, 2017, 8:29 PM Not looking good; He took the reporter out, & didn't return, so search &rescue was contacted. His sub sunk after he was identified by a light house& radio contact was made. He says he dropped her off on an Island in otherreports. The Nautilus set out from Refshale Island, a former shipyard redeveloped as an entertainment and activity spot, at about 7 p.m. local time on Thursday, according to a police timeline. Two helicopters and three ships combed the sea from Copenhagen to the Baltic Sea island of Bornholm after police received the report it had not gotten back to land just after 3:30 a.m. It was spotted by a lighthouse in Koge Bay, a seaport south of the city, at 10:30 a.m."A radio contact was established for the boat, which, according to the owner, was heading towards the harbor," the police statement said. Half an hour later "the submarine suddenly sank and the owner was subsequently rescued on a private motorboat sailing him in port."Madsen "told us he had technical problems" when asked to explain why the submarine failed to respond to radio contact earlier in the day, Damgaard said. Sent from my iPad On 12/08/2017, at 10:21 AM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Getting crazier by the minute. I read the boat is in only 7m, which makes no sense if someone was trying to sink it to hide evidence. I hope they get inside to resolve this fast. Alec On Aug 11, 2017, at 6:03 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just found this report where he is being held on suspicion of murder!http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/submarine-nautilus-peter-madsen-crowdfunding-sank-journalist-missing-a7889251.htmlAlan Sent from my iPad On 12/08/2017, at 9:21 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: So, I've got to ask about this incident because some news reports are saying that a woman died on the sub. ?Does anybody know the true story about what happened? Thanks, -Ludwig -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Fri, Aug 11, 2017 4:14 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus I am real sorry to hear that! ?I presume a recovery plan is in the works? ?How deep is it sitting? Hank On Friday, August 11, 2017, 12:07:13 PM MDT, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I can't imagine how disheartening that must be. Particularly with a boat of that magnitude. Peter, I'm just glad you and your companion are safe. Best, Alec > On Aug 11, 2017, at 11:16 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Wow. So sorry to hear. Thanks for sharing. > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Beram Mahmoud via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hello, >> >> >> >> well sad news as the UC3 Nautilus sank on a trip. Fortunately nobody was hurt. First information hinds to a fault? in the ballast system. >> >> >> >> http://www.independent.ie/world-news/owner-safe-after-private-submarine-sinks-off-denmark-36021818.html >> >> http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/danes-search-missing-private-submarine-off-copenhagen-49152539 >> >> >> >> >> >> It is a fascinating hobby as long as everything works out. >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Beram >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 13 14:38:06 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2017 18:38:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <1502640984921.2521318.6de5d1b8302ae6bb756f548c808eed45df1ee831@spica.telekom.de> References: <398298995.883196.1502632195531.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <398298995.883196.1502632195531@mail.yahoo.com> <1502640984921.2521318.6de5d1b8302ae6bb756f548c808eed45df1ee831@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <1622683698.1029574.1502649486538@mail.yahoo.com> I'm not sure I see any rationalization to sinking the sub to hide evidence of a crime in such shallow water that it can be easily reached and recovered. ?So I'm suspect of the authorities theorizing that he scuttled the vessel intentionally for nefarious reasons. ?However,?Peter did some unconventional things, shall we say, with that sub. ?I recall seeing a video of him swapping out a viewport while it was under water. ?I also recall that shortly after first launch when he tried to submerge next to a pier, the aft flooded but the bow did not which caused the vessel to pitch at about a 75 degree angle with the aft end on the bottom. ?The conning tower was underwater and the only reason they were able to recover without flooding the sub at that time was because there was a hatch in the fore end that just barely sat above water level. ?It's not clear to me if Nautilus was a vessel that could be adequately operated effectively by just one person. ?There was a history of happenstance and perhaps it caught up with him again. Of course none of that explains the missing reporter. Jon On Sunday, August 13, 2017 12:18 PM, "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Hi Jon, is still a little to early - but this statement below concerns me a lot and looks not so good: ---- Kristian Isbak, who had responded to the navy?s call to help locate the ship, sailed out immediately Friday and saw Madsen standing wearing his trademark military fatigues in the submarine?s tower while it was still afloat. ?He then climbed down inside the submarine and there was then some kind of air flow coming up and the submarine started to sink,? Isbak said. ?[He] came up again and stayed in the tower until water came into it?, before swimming to a nearby boat as the submarine sank, he added. ---- If this was just a stunt it will cost hunderthousands for the raising of the wreck, the investigation , the search mission with ships and helicopters etc.etc.? I think we can rule this out. I think in the next days we will learn if the ballasttanks valves were open or close and working or not. vbr Carsten -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 13 15:43:26 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 07:43:26 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <1622683698.1029574.1502649486538@mail.yahoo.com> References: <398298995.883196.1502632195531.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <398298995.883196.1502632195531@mail.yahoo.com> <1502640984921.2521318.6de5d1b8302ae6bb756f548c808eed45df1ee831@spica.telekom.de> <1622683698.1029574.1502649486538@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jon, we had a case in N.Z. where a yachty was charged & convicted of the murder of two tourists who have never been found. Part of the evidence against him was that he had meticulously cleaned every centimetre of the inside of his yacht to destroy any DNA evidence. I suspect that this is what Peter was trying to achieve by flooding his sub. This event was shortly after radio contact was made & search boats were closing in on him. As a publicity stunt you would have to have the missing girls family & friends in on it, otherwise it would be extremely cruel to them, & I can't see that happening. He didn't return to port as he said, prompting the search. He didn't respond to radio contact initially, saying he had a temporary radio failure. He sunk his submarine after contact was made by the lighthouse & search boats were nearing him. And the girl hasn't been able to be contacted or seen for 4 days. I hope if he is guilty, that he just confesses, as it would be easier on him & every one else in the long run. Very sad that someones talented daughter & friend has gone missing. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 14/08/2017, at 6:38 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > roy > I'm not sure I see any rationalization to sinking the sub to hide evidence of a crime in such shallow water that it can be easily reached and recovered. So I'm suspect of the authorities theorizing that he scuttled the vessel intentionally for nefarious reasons. However, Peter did some unconventional things, shall we say, with that sub. I recall seeing a video of him swapping out a viewport while it was under water. Tw I also recall that shortly after first launch when he tried to submerge next to a pier, the aft flooded but the bow did not which caused the vessel to pitch at about a 75 degree angle with the aft end on the bottom. The conning tower was underwater and the only reason they were able to recover without flooding the sub at that time was because there was a hatch in the fore end that just barely sat above water level. It's not clear to me if Nautilus was a vessel that could be adequately operated effectively by just one person. There was a history of happenstance and perhaps it caught up with him again. > > Of course none of that explains the missing reporter. > > Jon > > > > On Sunday, August 13, 2017 12:18 PM, "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: > > > Hi Jon, is still a little to early - but this statement below concerns me a lot and looks not so good: > ---- > Kristian Isbak, who had responded to the navy?s call to help locate the ship, sailed out immediately Friday and saw Madsen standing wearing his trademark military fatigues in the submarine?s tower while it was still afloat. > > ?He then climbed down inside the submarine and there was then some kind of air flow coming up and the submarine started to sink,? Isbak said. ?[He] came up again and stayed in the tower until water came into it?, before swimming to a nearby boat as the submarine sank, he added. > ---- > > If this was just a stunt it will cost hunderthousands for the raising of the wreck, the investigation , the search mission with ships and helicopters etc.etc. I think we can rule this out. > > I think in the next days we will learn if the ballasttanks valves were open or close and working or not. > > vbr Carsten > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 13 16:06:47 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2017 16:06:47 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: References: <398298995.883196.1502632195531.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <398298995.883196.1502632195531@mail.yahoo.com> <1502640984921.2521318.6de5d1b8302ae6bb756f548c808eed45df1ee831@spica.telekom.de> <1622683698.1029574.1502649486538@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I hadn't thought of it from that angle, Alan. I had better stick to my life of law and order. Jon On 8/13/2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Jon, > we had a case in N.Z. where a yachty was charged & convicted of the > murder of > two tourists who have never been found. Part of the evidence against > him was that > he had meticulously cleaned every centimetre of the inside of his > yacht to destroy > any DNA evidence. I suspect that this is what Peter was trying to > achieve by flooding > his sub. This event was shortly after radio contact was made & search > boats were > closing in on him. > As a publicity stunt you would have to have the missing girls family & > friends in on > it, otherwise it would be extremely cruel to them, & I can't see that > happening. > He didn't return to port as he said, prompting the search. > He didn't respond to radio contact initially, saying he had a > temporary radio failure. > He sunk his submarine after contact was made by the lighthouse & > search boats > were nearing him. > And the girl hasn't been able to be contacted or seen for 4 days. > I hope if he is guilty, that he just confesses, as it would be easier > on him & every > one else in the long run. > Very sad that someones talented daughter & friend has gone missing. > Alan > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 13 16:17:01 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2017 16:17:01 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <1622683698.1029574.1502649486538@mail.yahoo.com> References: <398298995.883196.1502632195531.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <398298995.883196.1502632195531@mail.yahoo.com> <1502640984921.2521318.6de5d1b8302ae6bb756f548c808eed45df1ee831@spica.telekom.de> <1622683698.1029574.1502649486538@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3ce5051a-92f8-5161-65d9-84f0d65616d2@ohiohills.com> The news has reached an aerospace blog. The chap running it is usually more willing to wait until all the information is in. In this case, the idea that it was an "art project " has hit a sensitive nerve and he has not waited before judging. Seems an expensive way to commit a murder http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=35456 Kim Wall: Danish submarine was ?deliberately sunk? http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40916787 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 13 21:37:11 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2017 21:37:11 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Uc3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is already a media circus, irregardless of what actually happened. This could very well be an event that draws the unwanted attention of the politicians, like we were recently talking about. Do we have any kind of public statement prepared to separate ourselves from this mess? Any reporters contact you Jon? On Aug 13, 2017 4:19 PM, "via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: UC3 Nautilus (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) 2. Re: UC3 Nautilus (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) 3. Re: UC3 Nautilus (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) 4. Re: UC3 Nautilus (Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2017 18:38:06 +0000 (UTC) From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus Message-ID: <1622683698.1029574.1502649486538 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I'm not sure I see any rationalization to sinking the sub to hide evidence of a crime in such shallow water that it can be easily reached and recovered. ?So I'm suspect of the authorities theorizing that he scuttled the vessel intentionally for nefarious reasons. ?However,?Peter did some unconventional things, shall we say, with that sub. ?I recall seeing a video of him swapping out a viewport while it was under water. ?I also recall that shortly after first launch when he tried to submerge next to a pier, the aft flooded but the bow did not which caused the vessel to pitch at about a 75 degree angle with the aft end on the bottom. ?The conning tower was underwater and the only reason they were able to recover without flooding the sub at that time was because there was a hatch in the fore end that just barely sat above water level. ?It's not clear to me if Nautilus was a vessel that could be adequately operated effectively by just one person. ?There was a history of happenst! ance and perhaps it caught up with him again. Of course none of that explains the missing reporter. Jon On Sunday, August 13, 2017 12:18 PM, "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Hi Jon, is still a little to early - but this statement below concerns me a lot and looks not so good: ---- Kristian Isbak, who had responded to the navy?s call to help locate the ship, sailed out immediately Friday and saw Madsen standing wearing his trademark military fatigues in the submarine?s tower while it was still afloat. ?He then climbed down inside the submarine and there was then some kind of air flow coming up and the submarine started to sink,? Isbak said. ?[He] came up again and stayed in the tower until water came into it?, before swimming to a nearby boat as the submarine sank, he added. ---- If this was just a stunt it will cost hunderthousands for the raising of the wreck, the investigation , the search mission with ships and helicopters etc.etc.? I think we can rule this out. I think in the next days we will learn if the ballasttanks valves were open or close and working or not. vbr Carsten -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 07:43:26 +1200 From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Jon, we had a case in N.Z. where a yachty was charged & convicted of the murder of two tourists who have never been found. Part of the evidence against him was that he had meticulously cleaned every centimetre of the inside of his yacht to destroy any DNA evidence. I suspect that this is what Peter was trying to achieve by flooding his sub. This event was shortly after radio contact was made & search boats were closing in on him. As a publicity stunt you would have to have the missing girls family & friends in on it, otherwise it would be extremely cruel to them, & I can't see that happening. He didn't return to port as he said, prompting the search. He didn't respond to radio contact initially, saying he had a temporary radio failure. He sunk his submarine after contact was made by the lighthouse & search boats were nearing him. And the girl hasn't been able to be contacted or seen for 4 days. I hope if he is guilty, that he just confesses, as it would be easier on him & every one else in the long run. Very sad that someones talented daughter & friend has gone missing. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 14/08/2017, at 6:38 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > roy > I'm not sure I see any rationalization to sinking the sub to hide evidence of a crime in such shallow water that it can be easily reached and recovered. So I'm suspect of the authorities theorizing that he scuttled the vessel intentionally for nefarious reasons. However, Peter did some unconventional things, shall we say, with that sub. I recall seeing a video of him swapping out a viewport while it was under water. Tw I also recall that shortly after first launch when he tried to submerge next to a pier, the aft flooded but the bow did not which caused the vessel to pitch at about a 75 degree angle with the aft end on the bottom. The conning tower was underwater and the only reason they were able to recover without flooding the sub at that time was because there was a hatch in the fore end that just barely sat above water level. It's not clear to me if Nautilus was a vessel that could be adequately operated effectively by just one person. There was a history of happ! enstance and perhaps it caught up with him again. > > Of course none of that explains the missing reporter. > > Jon > > > > On Sunday, August 13, 2017 12:18 PM, "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: > > > Hi Jon, is still a little to early - but this statement below concerns me a lot and looks not so good: > ---- > Kristian Isbak, who had responded to the navy?s call to help locate the ship, sailed out immediately Friday and saw Madsen standing wearing his trademark military fatigues in the submarine?s tower while it was still afloat. > > ?He then climbed down inside the submarine and there was then some kind of air flow coming up and the submarine started to sink,? Isbak said. ?[He] came up again and stayed in the tower until water came into it?, before swimming to a nearby boat as the submarine sank, he added. > ---- > > If this was just a stunt it will cost hunderthousands for the raising of the wreck, the investigation , the search mission with ships and helicopters etc.etc. I think we can rule this out. > > I think in the next days we will learn if the ballasttanks valves were open or close and working or not. > > vbr Carsten > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2017 16:06:47 -0400 From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed" I hadn't thought of it from that angle, Alan. I had better stick to my life of law and order. Jon On 8/13/2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Jon, > we had a case in N.Z. where a yachty was charged & convicted of the > murder of > two tourists who have never been found. Part of the evidence against > him was that > he had meticulously cleaned every centimetre of the inside of his > yacht to destroy > any DNA evidence. I suspect that this is what Peter was trying to > achieve by flooding > his sub. This event was shortly after radio contact was made & search > boats were > closing in on him. > As a publicity stunt you would have to have the missing girls family & > friends in on > it, otherwise it would be extremely cruel to them, & I can't see that > happening. > He didn't return to port as he said, prompting the search. > He didn't respond to radio contact initially, saying he had a > temporary radio failure. > He sunk his submarine after contact was made by the lighthouse & > search boats > were nearing him. > And the girl hasn't been able to be contacted or seen for 4 days. > I hope if he is guilty, that he just confesses, as it would be easier > on him & every > one else in the long run. > Very sad that someones talented daughter & friend has gone missing. > Alan > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2017 16:17:01 -0400 From: Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus Message-ID: <3ce5051a-92f8-5161-65d9-84f0d65616d2 at ohiohills.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed The news has reached an aerospace blog. The chap running it is usually more willing to wait until all the information is in. In this case, the idea that it was an "art project " has hit a sensitive nerve and he has not waited before judging. Seems an expensive way to commit a murder http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=35456 Kim Wall: Danish submarine was ?deliberately sunk? http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40916787 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 56 ***************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 14 01:23:51 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 01:23:51 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <3ce5051a-92f8-5161-65d9-84f0d65616d2@ohiohills.com> References: <398298995.883196.1502632195531.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <398298995.883196.1502632195531@mail.yahoo.com> <1502640984921.2521318.6de5d1b8302ae6bb756f548c808eed45df1ee831@spica.telekom.de> <1622683698.1029574.1502649486538@mail.yahoo.com> <3ce5051a-92f8-5161-65d9-84f0d65616d2@ohiohills.com> Message-ID: No one would be so stupid as to sink their sub intentionally, right? ~ Douglas S. On 8/13/17, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > The news has reached an aerospace blog. The chap running it is usually > more willing to wait until all the information is in. In this case, the > idea that it was an "art project " has hit a sensitive nerve and he has > not waited before judging. > > Seems an expensive way to commit a murder > http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=35456 > > Kim Wall: Danish submarine was ?deliberately sunk? > http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40916787 > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 14 03:08:23 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 19:08:23 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Peltier Airconditioner Message-ID: Have looked in to this a bit more. An average compression type car air conditioner takes about 3000W of power to run. Cooling with peltiers requires 4x this power to get the equivalent effect. So 12000W required to keep up with a car air conditioner! Peltiers have a typical maximum difference in temperature from one side to the other of 70C, but to run at maximum efficiency it is recommended to keep the temperature difference at less than 30C. So this would mean a peltier rated 72W should be run at around 30W. The efficiency also depends on how well you can remove the heat from the hot side, as if it gets too hot the heat build up can migrate across to the cold side. A 1&1/2 x 1&1/2" peltier may be around 72W (12V & 6 A) & cost US $3:61 Deal Extreme with free shipping.... http://m.dx.com/p/tec1-12706-semiconductor-thermoelectric-cooler-peltier-white-157283?stiff=99 So to get the same cooling as your car air conditioner you need 166 of these & that's running them at full power & not the more economical half power. I have read that a peltier air conditioner can drop a cars temperature to 20C below ambient, but I don't have any specs on the unit they mention. I am going to persevere with them as I am building a small one person sub & I like that I can make a dehumidifyer, airconditioner & heater all in one & take up little room. As discussed, their heating efficiencies are great, so if you look at them as a descent heater with the spin off of some cooling benefit then they don't look so bad! Battery technology is leaping forward, so I am anticipating that their power drain won't be such a big deal by the time I get around to buying batteries. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 14 06:18:23 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 18:18:23 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Peltier Airconditioner In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8/14/2017 3:08 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Have looked in to this a bit more. > An average compression type car air conditioner takes about 3000W That seems too high. If true, my car's air conditioner would take most of the engine's power. Marc -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 14 07:18:39 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 23:18:39 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Peltier Airconditioner In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5BCCA9AF-1431-40BB-89E3-1A5C7D97EE0A@yahoo.com> Marc, are you driving a fiat bambina? I saw 4hp quoted in a few places but this is from a Wiki article on air conditioners. Automobile power consumption Edit In an automobile, the A/C system will use around 4 horsepower (3 kW) of the engine's power, thus increasing fuel consumption of the vehicle.[53] Alan Sent from my iPad > On 14/08/2017, at 10:18 PM, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > >> On 8/14/2017 3:08 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Have looked in to this a bit more. >> An average compression type car air conditioner takes about 3000W > > That seems too high. If true, my car's air conditioner would take most of the engine's power. > > Marc > > -- > Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog > Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog > Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 > Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc > Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 14 07:29:00 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 19:29:00 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Peltier Airconditioner In-Reply-To: <5BCCA9AF-1431-40BB-89E3-1A5C7D97EE0A@yahoo.com> References: <5BCCA9AF-1431-40BB-89E3-1A5C7D97EE0A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46b3ce07-cca9-3eb8-ed21-35da3ab78679@archivale.com> You're right. Dropped an extra zero... Marc On 8/14/2017 7:18 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Marc, > are you driving a fiat bambina? > I saw 4hp quoted in a few places but this is from a Wiki article on air > conditioners. > > > Automobile power consumptionEdit > > > In an automobile, the A/C system will use around 4 horsepower > (3 kW) of the engine's > power , thus increasing > fuel consumption of the vehicle.^[53] > > > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 14/08/2017, at 10:18 PM, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > >> >> >> On 8/14/2017 3:08 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Have looked in to this a bit more. >>> An average compression type car air conditioner takes about 3000W >> >> That seems too high. If true, my car's air conditioner would take most >> of the engine's power. >> >> Marc >> >> -- >> Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog >> Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog >> Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 >> Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc >> Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 14 08:47:34 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 08:47:34 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Uc3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4eb5dc4b-feff-66be-0896-1a9dc955be06@psubs.org> I don't think this event fits the typical mold related to regulation so I'm not worried about it. What ever happened, it seems clear to this point at least that we aren't looking at an accident caused by unsafe equipment or operation. BBC news is reporting today that authorities still believe it was an intentional scuttling of the vessel and that Madsen has changed his story regarding his dropping the reporter off on an island. I've received no contact from the press and wouldn't have enough verified information on the matter to issue a statement. My concern lies more with MUVMTS and their perception that this event necessitates them to move faster with their regulation proposals which I think are an overreaction to begin with. I hope to have a response to them and the Coast Guard by the end of the month. Jon On 8/13/2017 9:37 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > This is already a media circus, irregardless of what actually > happened. This could very well be an event that draws the unwanted > attention of the politicians, like we were recently talking about. Do > we have any kind of public statement prepared to separate ourselves > from this mess? Any reporters contact you Jon? From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 14 13:40:22 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 10:40:22 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Peltier Airconditioner In-Reply-To: h9UpdA19eLueDh9UqdHAPI References: h9UpdA19eLueDh9UqdHAPI Message-ID: <001b01d31524$68915fc0$39b41f40$@telus.net> During the winter some people prefer infra-red heaters in their homes to directly warm the occupants. This is considered to be more efficient than heating up air and then forcing it into the living space. Similarly, perhaps several peltiers could be placed on the sub pilots person to directly cool him in the otherwise warm air environment? A set of cooling headband, wristbands, and leg/foot wraps to cool the blood where it is close to the surface of the body? You only need cooling while the sub is on or close to the surface. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 12:08 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Peltier Airconditioner Have looked in to this a bit more. An average compression type car air conditioner takes about 3000W of power to run. Cooling with peltiers requires 4x this power to get the equivalent effect. So 12000W required to keep up with a car air conditioner! Peltiers have a typical maximum difference in temperature from one side to the other of 70C, but to run at maximum efficiency it is recommended to keep the temperature difference at less than 30C. So this would mean a peltier rated 72W should be run at around 30W. The efficiency also depends on how well you can remove the heat from the hot side, as if it gets too hot the heat build up can migrate across to the cold side. A 1&1/2 x 1&1/2" peltier may be around 72W (12V & 6 A) & cost US $3:61 Deal Extreme with free shipping.... http://m.dx.com/p/tec1-12706-semiconductor-thermoelectric-cooler-peltier-white-157283?stiff=99 So to get the same cooling as your car air conditioner you need 166 of these & that's running them at full power & not the more economical half power. I have read that a peltier air conditioner can drop a cars temperature to 20C below ambient, but I don't have any specs on the unit they mention. I am going to persevere with them as I am building a small one person sub & I like that I can make a dehumidifyer, airconditioner & heater all in one & take up little room. As discussed, their heating efficiencies are great, so if you look at them as a descent heater with the spin off of some cooling benefit then they don't look so bad! Battery technology is leaping forward, so I am anticipating that their power drain won't be such a big deal by the time I get around to buying batteries. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 14 15:36:20 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 07:36:20 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Peltier Airconditioner In-Reply-To: <001b01d31524$68915fc0$39b41f40$@telus.net> References: <001b01d31524$68915fc0$39b41f40$@telus.net> Message-ID: <7C1F9495-599D-460C-9235-5A7D09DC6BD3@yahoo.com> Tim, I was nearly going to mention this; but I was thinking just have the air flow directed on the occupants. I have heard mention of clothing with Peltiers in them. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 15/08/2017, at 5:40 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > During the winter some people prefer infra-red heaters in their homes to directly warm the occupants. This is considered to be more efficient than heating up air and then forcing it into the living space. Similarly, perhaps several peltiers could be placed on the sub pilots person to directly cool him in the otherwise warm air environment? A set of cooling headband, wristbands, and leg/foot wraps to cool the blood where it is close to the surface of the body? You only need cooling while the sub is on or close to the surface. > Tim > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles; > Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 12:08 AM > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Peltier Airconditioner > > Have looked in to this a bit more. > An average compression type car air conditioner takes about 3000W > of power to run. Cooling with peltiers requires 4x this power to get the > equivalent effect. So 12000W required to keep up with a car air conditioner! > Peltiers have a typical maximum difference in temperature from one side > to the other of 70C, but to run at maximum efficiency it is recommended > to keep the temperature difference at less than 30C. So this would mean > a peltier rated 72W should be run at around 30W. > The efficiency also depends on how well you can remove the heat from > the hot side, as if it gets too hot the heat build up can migrate across to the > cold side. > A 1&1/2 x 1&1/2" peltier may be around 72W (12V & 6 A) & cost US $3:61 > Deal Extreme with free shipping.... > http://m.dx.com/p/tec1-12706-semiconductor-thermoelectric-cooler-peltier-white-157283?stiff=99 > So to get the same cooling as your car air conditioner you need 166 of these > & that's running them at full power & not the more economical half power. > I have read that a peltier air conditioner can drop a cars temperature to 20C > below ambient, but I don't have any specs on the unit they mention. > I am going to persevere with them as I am building a small one person sub > & I like that I can make a dehumidifyer, airconditioner & heater all in one & take > up little room. As discussed, their heating efficiencies are great, so if you look > at them as a descent heater with the spin off of some cooling benefit then they > don't look so bad! Battery technology is leaping forward, so I am anticipating that > their power drain won't be such a big deal by the time I get around to buying > batteries. > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 14 12:13:14 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 12:13:14 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: References: <398298995.883196.1502632195531.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <398298995.883196.1502632195531@mail.yahoo.com> <1502640984921.2521318.6de5d1b8302ae6bb756f548c808eed45df1ee831@spica.telekom.de> <1622683698.1029574.1502649486538@mail.yahoo.com> <3ce5051a-92f8-5161-65d9-84f0d65616d2@ohiohills.com> Message-ID: On 8/14/2017 1:23 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > No one would be so stupid as to sink their sub intentionally, right? ~ The blogger has a favorite hate: art replacing engineering. There are easy ways to anger him, and this was one of them. His background is aerospace; that appears to result in small-scale and personal projects irritating him at a subconscious level. Other than that, he's a great source of historical aerospace information. I've always had a particular interest in the Mercury capsule. Mike --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 14 16:29:10 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 20:29:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: References: <398298995.883196.1502632195531.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <398298995.883196.1502632195531@mail.yahoo.com> <1502640984921.2521318.6de5d1b8302ae6bb756f548c808eed45df1ee831@spica.telekom.de> <1622683698.1029574.1502649486538@mail.yahoo.com> <3ce5051a-92f8-5161-65d9-84f0d65616d2@ohiohills.com> Message-ID: <312451248.1589324.1502742550490@mail.yahoo.com> Mike, I had the pleasure of working on and around most of the space capsules in the Smithsonian collection including Freedom 7 and Friendship 7. Got to meet John Glenn when I was designing a form fitted acrylic cover for his Mercury capsule. Those were certainly exciting times in american history. Greg C From: Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 3:41 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus On 8/14/2017 1:23 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > No one would be so stupid as to sink their sub intentionally, right? ~ The blogger has a favorite hate: art replacing engineering.? There are easy ways to anger him, and this was one of them.? His background is aerospace; that appears to result in small-scale and personal projects irritating him at a subconscious level. Other than that, he's a great source of historical aerospace information. I've always had a particular interest in the Mercury capsule. Mike --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 14 16:54:04 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 16:54:04 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Peltier Airconditioner In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Or have the wall mounted peltiers cool water that circulates through a cooling suit like astronauts and race car drivers wear. You deliver all the cooling directly to the occupant and optimally reject heat directly to the outside water. All of this is another entanglement for the occupants though. On Aug 14, 2017 4:33 PM, "via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Peltier Airconditioner (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) 2. Re: Peltier Airconditioner (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) 3. Re: UC3 Nautilus (Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles) 4. Re: UC3 Nautilus (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 10:40:22 -0700 From: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Peltier Airconditioner Message-ID: <001b01d31524$68915fc0$39b41f40$@telus.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" During the winter some people prefer infra-red heaters in their homes to directly warm the occupants. This is considered to be more efficient than heating up air and then forcing it into the living space. Similarly, perhaps several peltiers could be placed on the sub pilots person to directly cool him in the otherwise warm air environment? A set of cooling headband, wristbands, and leg/foot wraps to cool the blood where it is close to the surface of the body? You only need cooling while the sub is on or close to the surface. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 12:08 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Peltier Airconditioner Have looked in to this a bit more. An average compression type car air conditioner takes about 3000W of power to run. Cooling with peltiers requires 4x this power to get the equivalent effect. So 12000W required to keep up with a car air conditioner! Peltiers have a typical maximum difference in temperature from one side to the other of 70C, but to run at maximum efficiency it is recommended to keep the temperature difference at less than 30C. So this would mean a peltier rated 72W should be run at around 30W. The efficiency also depends on how well you can remove the heat from the hot side, as if it gets too hot the heat build up can migrate across to the cold side. A 1&1/2 x 1&1/2" peltier may be around 72W (12V & 6 A) & cost US $3:61 Deal Extreme with free shipping.... http://m.dx.com/p/tec1-12706-semiconductor-thermoelectric- cooler-peltier-white-157283?stiff=99 So to get the same cooling as your car air conditioner you need 166 of these & that's running them at full power & not the more economical half power. I have read that a peltier air conditioner can drop a cars temperature to 20C below ambient, but I don't have any specs on the unit they mention. I am going to persevere with them as I am building a small one person sub & I like that I can make a dehumidifyer, airconditioner & heater all in one & take up little room. As discussed, their heating efficiencies are great, so if you look at them as a descent heater with the spin off of some cooling benefit then they don't look so bad! Battery technology is leaping forward, so I am anticipating that their power drain won't be such a big deal by the time I get around to buying batteries. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 07:36:20 +1200 From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Peltier Airconditioner Message-ID: <7C1F9495-599D-460C-9235-5A7D09DC6BD3 at yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tim, I was nearly going to mention this; but I was thinking just have the air flow directed on the occupants. I have heard mention of clothing with Peltiers in them. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 15/08/2017, at 5:40 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > During the winter some people prefer infra-red heaters in their homes to directly warm the occupants. This is considered to be more efficient than heating up air and then forcing it into the living space. Similarly, perhaps several peltiers could be placed on the sub pilots person to directly cool him in the otherwise warm air environment? A set of cooling headband, wristbands, and leg/foot wraps to cool the blood where it is close to the surface of the body? You only need cooling while the sub is on or close to the surface. > Tim > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles; > Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 12:08 AM > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Peltier Airconditioner > > Have looked in to this a bit more. > An average compression type car air conditioner takes about 3000W > of power to run. Cooling with peltiers requires 4x this power to get the > equivalent effect. So 12000W required to keep up with a car air conditioner! > Peltiers have a typical maximum difference in temperature from one side > to the other of 70C, but to run at maximum efficiency it is recommended > to keep the temperature difference at less than 30C. So this would mean > a peltier rated 72W should be run at around 30W. > The efficiency also depends on how well you can remove the heat from > the hot side, as if it gets too hot the heat build up can migrate across to the > cold side. > A 1&1/2 x 1&1/2" peltier may be around 72W (12V & 6 A) & cost US $3:61 > Deal Extreme with free shipping.... > http://m.dx.com/p/tec1-12706-semiconductor-thermoelectric- cooler-peltier-white-157283?stiff=99 > So to get the same cooling as your car air conditioner you need 166 of these > & that's running them at full power & not the more economical half power. > I have read that a peltier air conditioner can drop a cars temperature to 20C > below ambient, but I don't have any specs on the unit they mention. > I am going to persevere with them as I am building a small one person sub > & I like that I can make a dehumidifyer, airconditioner & heater all in one & take > up little room. As discussed, their heating efficiencies are great, so if you look > at them as a descent heater with the spin off of some cooling benefit then they > don't look so bad! Battery technology is leaping forward, so I am anticipating that > their power drain won't be such a big deal by the time I get around to buying > batteries. > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 12:13:14 -0400 From: Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed On 8/14/2017 1:23 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > No one would be so stupid as to sink their sub intentionally, right? ~ The blogger has a favorite hate: art replacing engineering. There are easy ways to anger him, and this was one of them. His background is aerospace; that appears to result in small-scale and personal projects irritating him at a subconscious level. Other than that, he's a great source of historical aerospace information. I've always had a particular interest in the Mercury capsule. Mike --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 20:29:10 +0000 (UTC) From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus Message-ID: <312451248.1589324.1502742550490 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mike, I had the pleasure of working on and around most of the space capsules in the Smithsonian collection including Freedom 7 and Friendship 7. Got to meet John Glenn when I was designing a form fitted acrylic cover for his Mercury capsule. Those were certainly exciting times in american history. Greg C From: Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 3:41 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus On 8/14/2017 1:23 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > No one would be so stupid as to sink their sub intentionally, right? ~ The blogger has a favorite hate: art replacing engineering.? There are easy ways to anger him, and this was one of them.? His background is aerospace; that appears to result in small-scale and personal projects irritating him at a subconscious level. Other than that, he's a great source of historical aerospace information. I've always had a particular interest in the Mercury capsule. Mike --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 59 ***************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 14 17:26:14 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 09:26:14 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Peltier Airconditioner In-Reply-To: <7C1F9495-599D-460C-9235-5A7D09DC6BD3@yahoo.com> References: <001b01d31524$68915fc0$39b41f40$@telus.net> <7C1F9495-599D-460C-9235-5A7D09DC6BD3@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01ca01d31543$f77505b0$e65f1110$@gmail.com> 7000 btu air conditioner is what Uboat Worx uses and they have stuck with that size for 2-3 people. So find what models are around and what current they use and there is your answer. Regards, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 15 August 2017 7:36 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Peltier Airconditioner Tim, I was nearly going to mention this; but I was thinking just have the air flow directed on the occupants. I have heard mention of clothing with Peltiers in them. Alan Sent from my iPad On 15/08/2017, at 5:40 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: During the winter some people prefer infra-red heaters in their homes to directly warm the occupants. This is considered to be more efficient than heating up air and then forcing it into the living space. Similarly, perhaps several peltiers could be placed on the sub pilots person to directly cool him in the otherwise warm air environment? A set of cooling headband, wristbands, and leg/foot wraps to cool the blood where it is close to the surface of the body? You only need cooling while the sub is on or close to the surface. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles; Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 12:08 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Peltier Airconditioner Have looked in to this a bit more. An average compression type car air conditioner takes about 3000W of power to run. Cooling with peltiers requires 4x this power to get the equivalent effect. So 12000W required to keep up with a car air conditioner! Peltiers have a typical maximum difference in temperature from one side to the other of 70C, but to run at maximum efficiency it is recommended to keep the temperature difference at less than 30C. So this would mean a peltier rated 72W should be run at around 30W. The efficiency also depends on how well you can remove the heat from the hot side, as if it gets too hot the heat build up can migrate across to the cold side. A 1&1/2 x 1&1/2" peltier may be around 72W (12V & 6 A) & cost US $3:61 Deal Extreme with free shipping.... http://m.dx.com/p/tec1-12706-semiconductor-thermoelectric-cooler-peltier-white-157283?stiff=99 So to get the same cooling as your car air conditioner you need 166 of these & that's running them at full power & not the more economical half power. I have read that a peltier air conditioner can drop a cars temperature to 20C below ambient, but I don't have any specs on the unit they mention. I am going to persevere with them as I am building a small one person sub & I like that I can make a dehumidifyer, airconditioner & heater all in one & take up little room. As discussed, their heating efficiencies are great, so if you look at them as a descent heater with the spin off of some cooling benefit then they don't look so bad! Battery technology is leaping forward, so I am anticipating that their power drain won't be such a big deal by the time I get around to buying batteries. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 14 17:15:44 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 09:15:44 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Peltier Airconditioner In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <798A736F-1987-4E2A-80BA-8C16F4D41B1D@yahoo.com> River, the thought had come to mind to pump air directly in to a suit, but in my one man application there will be so little space to cool or heat that it wouldn't have much of an advantage, besides I want to use the set up as a dehumidifier as well. I have 20 Peltiers ordered & I'll finish my model of my hull & try them out in that! Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 15/08/2017, at 8:54 AM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Or have the wall mounted peltiers cool water that circulates through a cooling suit like astronauts and race car drivers wear. You deliver all the cooling directly to the occupant and optimally reject heat directly to the outside water. All of this is another entanglement for the occupants though. > > On Aug 14, 2017 4:33 PM, "via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: > Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Peltier Airconditioner (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) > 2. Re: Peltier Airconditioner (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) > 3. Re: UC3 Nautilus (Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles) > 4. Re: UC3 Nautilus (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 10:40:22 -0700 > From: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > > To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Peltier Airconditioner > Message-ID: <001b01d31524$68915fc0$39b41f40$@telus.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > During the winter some people prefer infra-red heaters in their homes to directly warm the occupants. This is considered to be more efficient than heating up air and then forcing it into the living space. Similarly, perhaps several peltiers could be placed on the sub pilots person to directly cool him in the otherwise warm air environment? A set of cooling headband, wristbands, and leg/foot wraps to cool the blood where it is close to the surface of the body? You only need cooling while the sub is on or close to the surface. > > Tim > > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 12:08 AM > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Peltier Airconditioner > > > > Have looked in to this a bit more. > > An average compression type car air conditioner takes about 3000W > > of power to run. Cooling with peltiers requires 4x this power to get the > > equivalent effect. So 12000W required to keep up with a car air conditioner! > > Peltiers have a typical maximum difference in temperature from one side > > to the other of 70C, but to run at maximum efficiency it is recommended > > to keep the temperature difference at less than 30C. So this would mean > > a peltier rated 72W should be run at around 30W. > > The efficiency also depends on how well you can remove the heat from > > the hot side, as if it gets too hot the heat build up can migrate across to the > > cold side. > > A 1&1/2 x 1&1/2" peltier may be around 72W (12V & 6 A) & cost US $3:61 > > Deal Extreme with free shipping.... > > http://m.dx.com/p/tec1-12706-semiconductor-thermoelectric-cooler-peltier-white-157283?stiff=99 > > So to get the same cooling as your car air conditioner you need 166 of these > > & that's running them at full power & not the more economical half power. > > I have read that a peltier air conditioner can drop a cars temperature to 20C > > below ambient, but I don't have any specs on the unit they mention. > > I am going to persevere with them as I am building a small one person sub > > & I like that I can make a dehumidifyer, airconditioner & heater all in one & take > > up little room. As discussed, their heating efficiencies are great, so if you look > > at them as a descent heater with the spin off of some cooling benefit then they > > don't look so bad! Battery technology is leaping forward, so I am anticipating that > > their power drain won't be such a big deal by the time I get around to buying > > batteries. > > Cheers Alan > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 07:36:20 +1200 > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Peltier Airconditioner > Message-ID: <7C1F9495-599D-460C-9235-5A7D09DC6BD3 at yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Tim, > I was nearly going to mention this; but I was thinking just have > the air flow directed on the occupants. > I have heard mention of clothing with Peltiers in them. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 15/08/2017, at 5:40 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > During the winter some people prefer infra-red heaters in their homes to directly warm the occupants. This is considered to be more efficient than heating up air and then forcing it into the living space. Similarly, perhaps several peltiers could be placed on the sub pilots person to directly cool him in the otherwise warm air environment? A set of cooling headband, wristbands, and leg/foot wraps to cool the blood where it is close to the surface of the body? You only need cooling while the sub is on or close to the surface. > > Tim > > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles; > > Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 12:08 AM > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Peltier Airconditioner > > > > Have looked in to this a bit more. > > An average compression type car air conditioner takes about 3000W > > of power to run. Cooling with peltiers requires 4x this power to get the > > equivalent effect. So 12000W required to keep up with a car air conditioner! > > Peltiers have a typical maximum difference in temperature from one side > > to the other of 70C, but to run at maximum efficiency it is recommended > > to keep the temperature difference at less than 30C. So this would mean > > a peltier rated 72W should be run at around 30W. > > The efficiency also depends on how well you can remove the heat from > > the hot side, as if it gets too hot the heat build up can migrate across to the > > cold side. > > A 1&1/2 x 1&1/2" peltier may be around 72W (12V & 6 A) & cost US $3:61 > > Deal Extreme with free shipping.... > > http://m.dx.com/p/tec1-12706-semiconductor-thermoelectric-cooler-peltier-white-157283?stiff=99 > > So to get the same cooling as your car air conditioner you need 166 of these > > & that's running them at full power & not the more economical half power. > > I have read that a peltier air conditioner can drop a cars temperature to 20C > > below ambient, but I don't have any specs on the unit they mention. > > I am going to persevere with them as I am building a small one person sub > > & I like that I can make a dehumidifyer, airconditioner & heater all in one & take > > up little room. As discussed, their heating efficiencies are great, so if you look > > at them as a descent heater with the spin off of some cooling benefit then they > > don't look so bad! Battery technology is leaping forward, so I am anticipating that > > their power drain won't be such a big deal by the time I get around to buying > > batteries. > > Cheers Alan > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 12:13:14 -0400 > From: Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > On 8/14/2017 1:23 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > No one would be so stupid as to sink their sub intentionally, right? ~ > The blogger has a favorite hate: art replacing engineering. There are > easy ways to anger him, and this was one of them. His background is > aerospace; that appears to result in small-scale and personal projects > irritating him at a subconscious level. > > Other than that, he's a great source of historical aerospace > information. I've always had a particular interest in the Mercury capsule. > > > > Mike > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 20:29:10 +0000 (UTC) > From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus > Message-ID: <312451248.1589324.1502742550490 at mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Mike, > I had the pleasure of working on and around most of the space capsules in the Smithsonian collection including Freedom 7 and Friendship 7. Got to meet John Glenn when I was designing a form fitted acrylic cover for his Mercury capsule. Those were certainly exciting times in american history. > Greg C > > From: Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 3:41 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus > > On 8/14/2017 1:23 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > No one would be so stupid as to sink their sub intentionally, right? ~ > The blogger has a favorite hate: art replacing engineering.? There are > easy ways to anger him, and this was one of them.? His background is > aerospace; that appears to result in small-scale and personal projects > irritating him at a subconscious level. > > Other than that, he's a great source of historical aerospace > information. I've always had a particular interest in the Mercury capsule. > > > > Mike > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 59 > ***************************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 14 19:21:33 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 11:21:33 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Peltier Airconditioner In-Reply-To: <01ca01d31543$f77505b0$e65f1110$@gmail.com> References: <001b01d31524$68915fc0$39b41f40$@telus.net> <7C1F9495-599D-460C-9235-5A7D09DC6BD3@yahoo.com> <01ca01d31543$f77505b0$e65f1110$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks Hugh, Looked at a 7000 btu air conditioner that was 820 W, which is a bit better than the cars 3000 W. You would still need 3,200 W to get the equivalent cooling with peltiers. However after scaling this down for a smaller sub, it may be reasonable. I have ordered 1400 Watts worth of Peltiers, so could be on the money! Those big acrylic spheres that Uboatworx uses are very insulative so it would be easy to maintain temperature under the water. I am not sure if they are a heat trap out of the water. I have seen large covers on them prior to diving! Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 15/08/2017, at 9:26 AM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > 7000 btu air conditioner is what Uboat Worx uses and they have stuck with that size for 2-3 people. So find what models are around and what current they use and there is your answer. > Regards, Hugh > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, 15 August 2017 7:36 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Peltier Airconditioner > > Tim, > I was nearly going to mention this; but I was thinking just have > the air flow directed on the occupants. > I have heard mention of clothing with Peltiers in them. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 15/08/2017, at 5:40 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > During the winter some people prefer infra-red heaters in their homes to directly warm the occupants. This is considered to be more efficient than heating up air and then forcing it into the living space. Similarly, perhaps several peltiers could be placed on the sub pilots person to directly cool him in the otherwise warm air environment? A set of cooling headband, wristbands, and leg/foot wraps to cool the blood where it is close to the surface of the body? You only need cooling while the sub is on or close to the surface. > Tim > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles; > Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 12:08 AM > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Peltier Airconditioner > > Have looked in to this a bit more. > An average compression type car air conditioner takes about 3000W > of power to run. Cooling with peltiers requires 4x this power to get the > equivalent effect. So 12000W required to keep up with a car air conditioner! > Peltiers have a typical maximum difference in temperature from one side > to the other of 70C, but to run at maximum efficiency it is recommended > to keep the temperature difference at less than 30C. So this would mean > a peltier rated 72W should be run at around 30W. > The efficiency also depends on how well you can remove the heat from > the hot side, as if it gets too hot the heat build up can migrate across to the > cold side. > A 1&1/2 x 1&1/2" peltier may be around 72W (12V & 6 A) & cost US $3:61 > Deal Extreme with free shipping.... > http://m.dx.com/p/tec1-12706-semiconductor-thermoelectric-cooler-peltier-white-157283?stiff=99 > So to get the same cooling as your car air conditioner you need 166 of these > & that's running them at full power & not the more economical half power. > I have read that a peltier air conditioner can drop a cars temperature to 20C > below ambient, but I don't have any specs on the unit they mention. > I am going to persevere with them as I am building a small one person sub > & I like that I can make a dehumidifyer, airconditioner & heater all in one & take > up little room. As discussed, their heating efficiencies are great, so if you look > at them as a descent heater with the spin off of some cooling benefit then they > don't look so bad! Battery technology is leaping forward, so I am anticipating that > their power drain won't be such a big deal by the time I get around to buying > batteries. > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 15 16:28:44 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 22:28:44 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ballast water valves on single hull subs with bow and stern tanks was AW: Uc3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <4eb5dc4b-feff-66be-0896-1a9dc955be06@psubs.org> References: <4eb5dc4b-feff-66be-0896-1a9dc955be06@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1502828924121.8657763.4a457dc15566008bfc6d4deef93bc7c8f334e7b9@spica.telekom.de> I like to explain how the ballast water system on UC3 and on Euronaut works. UC 3 One hull sub with a bow ballastwater tank and a stern ballastwatertank. One ballast butterfly vale on top of each tank - tanks on the bottom open to the sea. Mechanical linkage from the valves to a troughhull to inside the sub to a mechanical hand lever. The position of this hand lever shows the position of the butterfly valve. Pretty simple and easy. No backup system - if you turn the two hand lever - the boat dive. Euronaut One hull sub with a bow ballastwater tank and a stern ballastwatertank. One ballast ballvale on top of each tank - tanks on the bottom open to the sea. Mechanical linkage from the valves to a troughhull to inside the sub to a eletrical servo. Servo can be drop off in case of a electrical error and replace by a hand lever (a pipe) Troughhull angel indicator gives you a green light if vale is closed, a red for open. Dashboard has four green and four red lights for the two ballast tanks valves and the two eletric remote controled hardtank valves. Servos only operates if you switch the converter on. You have to press the buttons for 15 Seconds before the ballvalves are fully open. This give you some time in case you can not read the labels proper and press maybe the wrong button.. In harbour or surface drive only mode the ball valves a sealed by metall plates -so even opening the valves will not flood the tank. These metall plates have small check screws - so you can test the vales function safe in harbour without to dive the boat. This test will be done any time before leave the harbour to ensure that both ballast valve are working. Problem with one hull sub with a bow ballastwater tank and a stern ballastwatertank are: If only one vale open and the other is still close the boat will half dive under an very heavy angle. To prevent any mistake like that we only operate the valves only after a harbour check and only with closed hatches. Saftey procedure: What ever goes wrong with the system - first close the hatch and endsure the pressure hull tightness (seal the exhaust system). A submarine is only a submarine if the hatch is closed. In all other cases it is just a motorboat with a very low freeboard. vbr Carsten? From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 15 12:03:10 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 12:03:10 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <312451248.1589324.1502742550490@mail.yahoo.com> References: <398298995.883196.1502632195531.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <398298995.883196.1502632195531@mail.yahoo.com> <1502640984921.2521318.6de5d1b8302ae6bb756f548c808eed45df1ee831@spica.telekom.de> <1622683698.1029574.1502649486538@mail.yahoo.com> <3ce5051a-92f8-5161-65d9-84f0d65616d2@ohiohills.com> <312451248.1589324.1502742550490@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6902f2af-771b-a63d-f214-b936b8dd77e5@ohiohills.com> On 8/14/2017 4:29 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Mike, > > I had the pleasure of working on and around most of the space capsules > in the Smithsonian collection including Freedom 7 and Friendship 7. > Got to meet John Glenn when I was designing a form fitted acrylic > cover for his Mercury capsule. Those were certainly exciting times in > american history. > Please contact me off the list. mholt at ohiohills.com I have some questions about the cover. Thanks. Mike --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 16 07:34:15 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 12:34:15 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ballast water valves on single hull subs with bow and stern tanks was AW: Uc3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <1502828924121.8657763.4a457dc15566008bfc6d4deef93bc7c8f334e7b9@spica.telekom.de> References: <4eb5dc4b-feff-66be-0896-1a9dc955be06@psubs.org> <1502828924121.8657763.4a457dc15566008bfc6d4deef93bc7c8f334e7b9@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: Hi Carsten Have police asked you for assistance? You would know immediately if UC3 had a problem with valves or if the boat was sunk intentionally? regards James On 15/08/2017, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I like to explain how the ballast water system on UC3 and on Euronaut works. > > UC 3 > One hull sub with a bow ballastwater tank and a stern ballastwatertank. > One ballast butterfly vale on top of each tank - tanks on the bottom open to > the sea. > Mechanical linkage from the valves to a troughhull to inside the sub to a > mechanical hand lever. > The position of this hand lever shows the position of the butterfly valve. > Pretty simple and easy. No backup system - if you turn the two hand lever - > the boat dive. > > Euronaut > One hull sub with a bow ballastwater tank and a stern ballastwatertank. > One ballast ballvale on top of each tank - tanks on the bottom open to the > sea. > Mechanical linkage from the valves to a troughhull to inside the sub to a > eletrical servo. > Servo can be drop off in case of a electrical error and replace by a hand > lever (a pipe) > Troughhull angel indicator gives you a green light if vale is closed, a red > for open. > Dashboard has four green and four red lights for the two ballast tanks > valves and the > two eletric remote controled hardtank valves. Servos only operates if you > switch the converter on. > You have to press the buttons for 15 Seconds before the ballvalves are fully > open. > This give you some time in case you can not read the labels proper and press > maybe the wrong button.. > In harbour or surface drive only mode the ball valves a sealed by metall > plates -so even opening the valves will not flood the tank. These metall > plates have small check screws - so you can test the vales function safe in > harbour without to dive the boat. This test will be done any time before > leave the harbour to ensure that both ballast valve are working. > > Problem with one hull sub with a bow ballastwater tank and a stern > ballastwatertank are: > If only one vale open and the other is still close the boat will half dive > under an very heavy angle. > To prevent any mistake like that we only operate the valves only after a > harbour check and only with closed hatches. > > Saftey procedure: > What ever goes wrong with the system - first close the hatch and endsure the > pressure hull tightness (seal the exhaust system). > > A submarine is only a submarine if the hatch is closed. > In all other cases it is just a motorboat with a very low freeboard. > > vbr Carsten? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 16 08:40:00 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 14:40:00 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ballast water valves on single hull subs with bow and stern tanks was AW: Uc3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: References: <4eb5dc4b-feff-66be-0896-1a9dc955be06@psubs.org> <1502828924121.8657763.4a457dc15566008bfc6d4deef93bc7c8f334e7b9@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <1502887200242.9235582.aa83a6566232f40922abcd06ef484eef692824f5@spica.telekom.de> They have assistance from UC3 Technical team members which rebuild her. But the valve system from UC3 is anyway so easy to understand that any technican will figure out was it happen. On the picture of the wreck onshore it is vissible that the deck plate on top of the aft ballast tank is allready remove. Read the original police report of the Copenhgane police - they mention : The investigations confirm that the sinking of the submarine was allegedly a consequence of a deliberate act http://www.mynewsdesk.com/dk/koebenhavns-politi/pressreleases/search-continues-in-submarine-case-2107081 This is Peter talking about himself and his mission: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7fNHr46jD0 vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ballast water valves on single hull subs with bow and stern tanks was AW: Uc3 Nautilus Datum: 2017-08-16T13:36:32+0200 Von: "James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Hi Carsten Have police asked you for assistance? You would know immediately if UC3 had a problem with valves or if the boat was sunk intentionally? regards James On 15/08/2017, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I like to explain how the ballast water system on UC3 and on Euronaut works. > > UC 3 > One hull sub with a bow ballastwater tank and a stern ballastwatertank. > One ballast butterfly vale on top of each tank - tanks on the bottom open to > the sea. > Mechanical linkage from the valves to a troughhull to inside the sub to a > mechanical hand lever. > The position of this hand lever shows the position of the butterfly valve. > Pretty simple and easy. No backup system - if you turn the two hand lever - > the boat dive. > > Euronaut > One hull sub with a bow ballastwater tank and a stern ballastwatertank. > One ballast ballvale on top of each tank - tanks on the bottom open to the > sea. > Mechanical linkage from the valves to a troughhull to inside the sub to a > eletrical servo. > Servo can be drop off in case of a electrical error and replace by a hand > lever (a pipe) > Troughhull angel indicator gives you a green light if vale is closed, a red > for open. > Dashboard has four green and four red lights for the two ballast tanks > valves and the > two eletric remote controled hardtank valves. Servos only operates if you > switch the converter on. > You have to press the buttons for 15 Seconds before the ballvalves are fully > open. > This give you some time in case you can not read the labels proper and press > maybe the wrong button.. > In harbour or surface drive only mode the ball valves a sealed by metall > plates -so even opening the valves will not flood the tank. These metall > plates have small check screws - so you can test the vales function safe in > harbour without to dive the boat. This test will be done any time before > leave the harbour to ensure that both ballast valve are working. > > Problem with one hull sub with a bow ballastwater tank and a stern > ballastwatertank are: > If only one vale open and the other is still close the boat will half dive > under an very heavy angle. > To prevent any mistake like that we only operate the valves only after a > harbour check and only with closed hatches. > > Saftey procedure: > What ever goes wrong with the system - first close the hatch and endsure the > pressure hull tightness (seal the exhaust system). > > A submarine is only a submarine if the hatch is closed. > In all other cases it is just a motorboat with a very low freeboard. > > vbr Carsten > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 16 08:47:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 12:47:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <6902f2af-771b-a63d-f214-b936b8dd77e5@ohiohills.com> References: <398298995.883196.1502632195531.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <398298995.883196.1502632195531@mail.yahoo.com> <1502640984921.2521318.6de5d1b8302ae6bb756f548c808eed45df1ee831@spica.telekom.de> <1622683698.1029574.1502649486538@mail.yahoo.com> <3ce5051a-92f8-5161-65d9-84f0d65616d2@ohiohills.com> <312451248.1589324.1502742550490@mail.yahoo.com> <6902f2af-771b-a63d-f214-b936b8dd77e5@ohiohills.com> Message-ID: <299519125.3294374.1502887663808@mail.yahoo.com> Here's a 2008 video documenting UC3's first dive.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85apuqUzWCotled 1:06 - Vessel submerges at high angle, aft first.2:19 - Madsen operating the ballast tank valve2:56 - Madsen orders everybody to the fore of the vessel in an attempt to level it. ?The ballast tank valve lever is clearly visible here. ?He also makes a curious statement..."no more about that little leak, ok?" Interestingly, a video from 2009 shows the vessel is still submerging at a steep aft first attitude. ?Start at 7:23https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm_TRbZMzs8 This video from 2009 shows the vessel surfacing in a relatively horizontal attitude. ?Start at 4:50https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZX6BHMAf4w | | | | | | | | | | | UC3 Nautilus submarine in Copenhagen September 2009 UC3 Nautilus - a fully functioning miniature submarine constructed by Peter Madsen in Copenhagen. Demonstrated t... | | | | 4:50 | | | | | | | | | | | SubSim Meet 2009 - Sailing in the UC3 Nautilus (Part 1) Third day of the SubSim Meet 2009 (18/09/2009). We went for the Dive aboard Nautilus. Since we were too many peo... | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | danish amateur submarine first dive, subtitled from; http://ing.dk/artikel/92613?highlight=nautilus subtitles; http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p... | | | | --------------------------------------------------------I like to explain how the ballast water system on UC3 and on Euronaut works. UC 3 One hull sub with a bow ballastwater tank and a stern ballastwatertank. One ballast butterfly vale on top of each tank - tanks on the bottom open to the sea. Mechanical linkage from the valves to a troughhull to inside the sub to a mechanical hand lever. The position of this hand lever shows the position of the butterfly valve. Pretty simple and easy. No backup system - if you turn the two hand lever - the boat dive. Euronaut One hull sub with a bow ballastwater tank and a stern ballastwatertank. One ballast ballvale on top of each tank - tanks on the bottom open to the sea. Mechanical linkage from the valves to a troughhull to inside the sub to a eletrical servo. Servo can be drop off in case of a electrical error and replace by a hand lever (a pipe) Troughhull angel indicator gives you a green light if vale is closed, a red for open. Dashboard has four green and four red lights for the two ballast tanks valves and the two eletric remote controled hardtank valves. Servos only operates if you switch the converter on. You have to press the buttons for 15 Seconds before the ballvalves are fully open. This give you some time in case you can not read the labels proper and press maybe the wrong button.. In harbour or surface drive only mode the ball valves a sealed by metall plates -so even opening the valves will not flood the tank. These metall plates have small check screws - so you can test the vales function safe in harbour without to dive the boat. This test will be done any time before leave the harbour to ensure that both ballast valve are working. Problem with one hull sub with a bow ballastwater tank and a stern ballastwatertank are: If only one vale open and the other is still close the boat will half dive under an very heavy angle. To prevent any mistake like that we only operate the valves only after a harbour check and only with closed hatches. Saftey procedure: What ever goes wrong with the system - first close the hatch and endsure the pressure hull tightness (seal the exhaust system). A submarine is only a submarine if the hatch is closed. In all other cases it is just a motorboat with a very low freeboard. vbr Carsten -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 16 22:19:39 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 19:19:39 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sport Sub Message-ID: <20170816191939.86187ACF@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 16 22:33:55 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 19:33:55 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sport Sub Message-ID: <20170816193355.86187D90@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 18 09:42:48 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2017 09:42:48 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tap instead of weld Message-ID: <7b8a7b2c-5b88-83ce-07db-1831bf73f67d@psubs.org> On a thicker hull, installing a small penetrator (1/4 male NPT), is there any structural reason why one could not just drill a tap such a fitting instead of welding it? Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 18 09:47:25 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2017 15:47:25 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tap instead of weld In-Reply-To: <7b8a7b2c-5b88-83ce-07db-1831bf73f67d@psubs.org> References: <7b8a7b2c-5b88-83ce-07db-1831bf73f67d@psubs.org> Message-ID: <0bd301d31828$868e2f60$93aa8e20$@nl> Hi Jon Not for me but a reinforcement is a GL rule. General rul for thread lenght is 1x D. So you hull should be 12 mm or 1/4 "thick Br, Emile -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 18 augustus 2017 15:43 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tap instead of weld On a thicker hull, installing a small penetrator (1/4 male NPT), is there any structural reason why one could not just drill a tap such a fitting instead of welding it? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 18 09:52:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2017 15:52:53 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Norway expedition In-Reply-To: <7b8a7b2c-5b88-83ce-07db-1831bf73f67d@psubs.org> References: <7b8a7b2c-5b88-83ce-07db-1831bf73f67d@psubs.org> Message-ID: <0bd401d31829$49dde140$dd99a3c0$@nl> Hi, We organized a private expedition to Norway . Some have already seen some pictures on Fb. Alexei from the Euronaut team joined and made this nice video which covers the whole trip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oc6-9CzQNM Enjoy and fall in love with Norway!. Best regards, Emile From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 18 09:59:06 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2017 13:59:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tap instead of weld In-Reply-To: <7b8a7b2c-5b88-83ce-07db-1831bf73f67d@psubs.org> References: <7b8a7b2c-5b88-83ce-07db-1831bf73f67d@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1325802841.261933.1503064746676@mail.yahoo.com> Jon,? Crack propagation might be a problem with a threaded hole in a pressure hull but I think you could use a tapered insert with no problem as long as the insert were strong enough to compensate for the hole. Poly-carbonate inserts have been approved as a repair plug for acrylic hulls and it is basically the same idea. Greg From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 9:51 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tap instead of weld On a thicker hull, installing a small penetrator (1/4 male NPT), is there any structural reason why one could not just drill a tap such a fitting instead of welding it? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 18 10:11:35 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2017 10:11:35 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Norway expedition In-Reply-To: <0bd401d31829$49dde140$dd99a3c0$@nl> References: <7b8a7b2c-5b88-83ce-07db-1831bf73f67d@psubs.org> <0bd401d31829$49dde140$dd99a3c0$@nl> Message-ID: WOW, absolutely fantastic stuff. Both the video and of course the expedition itself. That was motivational! On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi, > > We organized a private expedition to Norway . Some have already seen some > pictures on Fb. > > Alexei from the Euronaut team joined and made this nice video which covers > the whole trip. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oc6-9CzQNM > > Enjoy and fall in love with Norway!. > > Best regards, Emile > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 18 10:14:16 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2017 16:14:16 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Norway expedition In-Reply-To: References: <7b8a7b2c-5b88-83ce-07db-1831bf73f67d@psubs.org> <0bd401d31829$49dde140$dd99a3c0$@nl> Message-ID: Bravo Emile, good to hear from the expedition! Can't wait to leave the office to go home and watch the video!! Antoine On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 4:11 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > WOW, absolutely fantastic stuff. Both the video and of course the > expedition itself. That was motivational! > > On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> We organized a private expedition to Norway . Some have already seen some >> pictures on Fb. >> >> Alexei from the Euronaut team joined and made this nice video which covers >> the whole trip. >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oc6-9CzQNM >> >> Enjoy and fall in love with Norway!. >> >> Best regards, Emile >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 18 10:21:34 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2017 15:21:34 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Norway expedition In-Reply-To: <0bd401d31829$49dde140$dd99a3c0$@nl> References: <7b8a7b2c-5b88-83ce-07db-1831bf73f67d@psubs.org> <0bd401d31829$49dde140$dd99a3c0$@nl> Message-ID: Brilliant Emile! Congratulations to you and crew on such a good dive, that's what submarine building is about....! On 18/08/2017, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi, > > We organized a private expedition to Norway . Some have already seen some > pictures on Fb. > > Alexei from the Euronaut team joined and made this nice video which covers > the whole trip. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oc6-9CzQNM > > Enjoy and fall in love with Norway!. > > Best regards, Emile > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 18 11:29:34 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2017 17:29:34 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tap instead of weld In-Reply-To: <7b8a7b2c-5b88-83ce-07db-1831bf73f67d@psubs.org> References: <7b8a7b2c-5b88-83ce-07db-1831bf73f67d@psubs.org> Message-ID: <0bef01d31836$cb4bf610$61e3e230$@nl> Jon , Conversion mistake The hull should be 1/2"thick. Br, Emile -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 18 augustus 2017 15:43 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tap instead of weld On a thicker hull, installing a small penetrator (1/4 male NPT), is there any structural reason why one could not just drill a tap such a fitting instead of welding it? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 18 13:31:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2017 17:31:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Norway expedition In-Reply-To: References: <7b8a7b2c-5b88-83ce-07db-1831bf73f67d@psubs.org> <0bd401d31829$49dde140$dd99a3c0$@nl> Message-ID: <368245523.515648.1503077509539@mail.yahoo.com> Emile,You are the KING !Hank On Friday, August 18, 2017, 8:21:54 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brilliant Emile!? Congratulations to you and crew on such a good dive, that's what submarine building is about....! On 18/08/2017, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi, > > We organized a private expedition to Norway . Some have already seen some > pictures on Fb. > > Alexei from the Euronaut team joined and made this nice video which covers > the whole trip. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oc6-9CzQNM > > Enjoy and fall in love with Norway!. > > Best regards, Emile > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 18 13:36:38 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2017 17:36:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tap instead of weld In-Reply-To: <0bef01d31836$cb4bf610$61e3e230$@nl> References: <7b8a7b2c-5b88-83ce-07db-1831bf73f67d@psubs.org> <0bef01d31836$cb4bf610$61e3e230$@nl> Message-ID: <526613770.527155.1503077798481@mail.yahoo.com> Jon,I struggled with the question for Elementary 3000. ? Gamma has several hoes drilled and threaded in the hull with no reinforcement, just a drilled hole. Gamma has a 1\2 thick hull. ?Elementary 3000 ?also has a small hole drilled in the hatch and threaded. ?That is 1 inch thick, and tested to 2,900 feet fresh water with no issues. ?My non engineering opinion is it is fine.Hank On Friday, August 18, 2017, 9:29:56 AM MDT, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon , Conversion mistake The hull should be 1/2"thick. Br, Emile -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 18 augustus 2017 15:43 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tap instead of weld On a thicker hull, installing a small penetrator (1/4 male NPT), is there any structural reason why one could not just drill a tap such a fitting instead of welding it? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 18 15:12:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2017 14:12:43 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Norway expedition In-Reply-To: <0bd401d31829$49dde140$dd99a3c0$@nl> References: <7b8a7b2c-5b88-83ce-07db-1831bf73f67d@psubs.org> <0bd401d31829$49dde140$dd99a3c0$@nl> Message-ID: Emile, what a great job on the dive video. Enjoyed seeing the boat trailered and all the underwater video both from the boat and divers. 203 meter dive on the SS Henry was impressive. What is the design depth of Drebbel? Also what is the significance of the name Drebbel? Thanks for sharing with us. Scenery in Norway was beautiful.' On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi, > > We organized a private expedition to Norway . Some have already seen some > pictures on Fb. > > Alexei from the Euronaut team joined and made this nice video which covers > the whole trip. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oc6-9CzQNM > > Enjoy and fall in love with Norway!. > > Best regards, Emile > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 18 15:43:31 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2017 21:43:31 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Norway expedition In-Reply-To: References: <7b8a7b2c-5b88-83ce-07db-1831bf73f67d@psubs.org> <0bd401d31829$49dde140$dd99a3c0$@nl> Message-ID: <0c1801d3185a$45c380c0$d14a8240$@nl> Cliff, all, Thanks for the response. Carsten and I were busy with operating the sub . Alexei , Nils and Andre (also a psubber from this list ) made great photo and video material. Nils Aukan is also a local amateur historican and was from great value for the team.. Getting there is half the fun they say. Some serious hill climbing with the Defender, trailer and sub (6 Ts Total..) Wonder if I have the height record for a sub. Design depth is 400 meter/ 1200 Ft. The sub functioned very well at open sea and 200 meter depth. However , diffucult to board with waves over 2 Ft. The Ocean reef comset is rated for 250 Meter but functioned with the surface boat 1000 meter away and we 200 meter deep! Cornelis Drebbel was a 17 th century inventor, artist and submarine pioneer . Drebbel was from my home town. https://sites.google.com/site/ukdrebbel/ Regards, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 18 augustus 2017 21:13 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Norway expedition Emile, what a great job on the dive video. Enjoyed seeing the boat trailered and all the underwater video both from the boat and divers. 203 meter dive on the SS Henry was impressive. What is the design depth of Drebbel? Also what is the significance of the name Drebbel? Thanks for sharing with us. Scenery in Norway was beautiful.' On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi, We organized a private expedition to Norway . Some have already seen some pictures on Fb. Alexei from the Euronaut team joined and made this nice video which covers the whole trip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oc6-9CzQNM Enjoy and fall in love with Norway!. Best regards, Emile _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 18 16:45:23 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2017 22:45:23 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Norway expedition In-Reply-To: <0c1801d3185a$45c380c0$d14a8240$@nl> References: <7b8a7b2c-5b88-83ce-07db-1831bf73f67d@psubs.org> <0bd401d31829$49dde140$dd99a3c0$@nl> <0c1801d3185a$45c380c0$d14a8240$@nl> Message-ID: Emile, wreck diving at 200m, this is serious and awesome! did you have an issue with the authorities having a dutch sub diving in Norwegian waters? regards Antoine On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 9:43 PM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, all, > > > > Thanks for the response. > > Carsten and I were busy with operating the sub . Alexei , Nils and Andre > (also a psubber from this list ) made great photo and video material. Nils > Aukan is also a local amateur historican and was from great value for the > team.. > > Getting there is half the fun they say. Some serious hill climbing with > the Defender, trailer and sub (6 Ts Total..) Wonder if I have the height > record for a sub. > > Design depth is 400 meter/ 1200 Ft. The sub functioned very well at open > sea and 200 meter depth. However , diffucult to board with waves over 2 > Ft. The Ocean reef comset is rated for 250 Meter but functioned with the > surface boat 1000 meter away and we 200 meter deep! > > Cornelis Drebbel was a 17 th century inventor, artist and submarine > pioneer . Drebbel was from my home town. https://sites.google.com/site/ > ukdrebbel/ > > > > > > Regards, Emile > > > > *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > *Verzonden:* vrijdag 18 augustus 2017 21:13 > *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Norway expedition > > > > Emile, what a great job on the dive video. Enjoyed seeing the boat > trailered and all the underwater video both from the boat and divers. 203 > meter dive on the SS Henry was impressive. What is the design depth of > Drebbel? Also what is the significance of the name Drebbel? > > > > Thanks for sharing with us. Scenery in Norway was beautiful.' > > > > On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Hi, > > We organized a private expedition to Norway . Some have already seen some > pictures on Fb. > > Alexei from the Euronaut team joined and made this nice video which covers > the whole trip. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oc6-9CzQNM > > Enjoy and fall in love with Norway!. > > Best regards, Emile > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 18 17:11:13 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2017 23:11:13 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Norway expedition In-Reply-To: References: <7b8a7b2c-5b88-83ce-07db-1831bf73f67d@psubs.org> <0bd401d31829$49dde140$dd99a3c0$@nl> <0c1801d3185a$45c380c0$d14a8240$@nl> Message-ID: <0c2f01d31866$85d5aba0$918102e0$@nl> Antoine, Crossing the channal over 200 kilometer in a human power submarine is even more challenging ;-) In 2018 the new attempt? No issue with authorities. Nils called the coast guard as we were diving in the shipping lane. That is why I love Norway; just take your own responsibility. There is a possible expedition to the Brittanic. But we need a permit from the wrecks owner, the Greek authorities and the British authorities.. Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 18 augustus 2017 22:45 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Norway expedition Emile, wreck diving at 200m, this is serious and awesome! did you have an issue with the authorities having a dutch sub diving in Norwegian waters? regards Antoine On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 9:43 PM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, all, Thanks for the response. Carsten and I were busy with operating the sub . Alexei , Nils and Andre (also a psubber from this list ) made great photo and video material. Nils Aukan is also a local amateur historican and was from great value for the team.. Getting there is half the fun they say. Some serious hill climbing with the Defender, trailer and sub (6 Ts Total..) Wonder if I have the height record for a sub. Design depth is 400 meter/ 1200 Ft. The sub functioned very well at open sea and 200 meter depth. However , diffucult to board with waves over 2 Ft. The Ocean reef comset is rated for 250 Meter but functioned with the surface boat 1000 meter away and we 200 meter deep! Cornelis Drebbel was a 17 th century inventor, artist and submarine pioneer . Drebbel was from my home town. https://sites.google.com/site/ukdrebbel/ Regards, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 18 augustus 2017 21:13 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Norway expedition Emile, what a great job on the dive video. Enjoyed seeing the boat trailered and all the underwater video both from the boat and divers. 203 meter dive on the SS Henry was impressive. What is the design depth of Drebbel? Also what is the significance of the name Drebbel? Thanks for sharing with us. Scenery in Norway was beautiful.' On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi, We organized a private expedition to Norway . Some have already seen some pictures on Fb. Alexei from the Euronaut team joined and made this nice video which covers the whole trip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oc6-9CzQNM Enjoy and fall in love with Norway!. Best regards, Emile _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 18 18:20:27 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2017 18:20:27 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Norway expedition In-Reply-To: <0c2f01d31866$85d5aba0$918102e0$@nl> References: <7b8a7b2c-5b88-83ce-07db-1831bf73f67d@psubs.org> <0bd401d31829$49dde140$dd99a3c0$@nl> <0c1801d3185a$45c380c0$d14a8240$@nl> <0c2f01d31866$85d5aba0$918102e0$@nl> Message-ID: <9631E51B-5461-4457-98C9-EF0AB4ADADD4@gmail.com> Emile, have you ever seen the old Cousteau documentary about the Brittanic? The old lady in it was my favorite, a star! Best, Alec > On Aug 18, 2017, at 5:11 PM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Antoine, > > Crossing the channal over 200 kilometer in a human power submarine is even more challenging ;-) In 2018 the new attempt? > > No issue with authorities. Nils called the coast guard as we were diving in the shipping lane. That is why I love Norway; just take your own responsibility. There is a possible expedition to the Brittanic. But we need a permit from the wrecks owner, the Greek authorities and the British authorities.. > > Br, Emile > > Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: vrijdag 18 augustus 2017 22:45 > Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Norway expedition > > Emile, wreck diving at 200m, this is serious and awesome! > > did you have an issue with the authorities having a dutch sub diving in Norwegian waters? > > regards > Antoine > > On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 9:43 PM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Cliff, all, > > Thanks for the response. > Carsten and I were busy with operating the sub . Alexei , Nils and Andre (also a psubber from this list ) made great photo and video material. Nils Aukan is also a local amateur historican and was from great value for the team.. > Getting there is half the fun they say. Some serious hill climbing with the Defender, trailer and sub (6 Ts Total..) Wonder if I have the height record for a sub. > Design depth is 400 meter/ 1200 Ft. The sub functioned very well at open sea and 200 meter depth. However , diffucult to board with waves over 2 Ft. The Ocean reef comset is rated for 250 Meter but functioned with the surface boat 1000 meter away and we 200 meter deep! > Cornelis Drebbel was a 17 th century inventor, artist and submarine pioneer . Drebbel was from my home town. https://sites.google.com/site/ukdrebbel/ > > > Regards, Emile > > Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: vrijdag 18 augustus 2017 21:13 > Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Norway expedition > > Emile, what a great job on the dive video. Enjoyed seeing the boat trailered and all the underwater video both from the boat and divers. 203 meter dive on the SS Henry was impressive. What is the design depth of Drebbel? Also what is the significance of the name Drebbel? > > Thanks for sharing with us. Scenery in Norway was beautiful.' > > On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi, > > We organized a private expedition to Norway . Some have already seen some > pictures on Fb. > > Alexei from the Euronaut team joined and made this nice video which covers > the whole trip. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oc6-9CzQNM > > Enjoy and fall in love with Norway!. > > Best regards, Emile > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 18 18:34:03 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2017 10:34:03 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Norway expedition In-Reply-To: <0bd401d31829$49dde140$dd99a3c0$@nl> References: <7b8a7b2c-5b88-83ce-07db-1831bf73f67d@psubs.org> <0bd401d31829$49dde140$dd99a3c0$@nl> Message-ID: <055601d31872$1abe3dd0$503ab970$@gmail.com> Very nice Emile, I am envious. BR Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 19 August 2017 1:53 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Norway expedition Hi, We organized a private expedition to Norway . Some have already seen some pictures on Fb. Alexei from the Euronaut team joined and made this nice video which covers the whole trip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oc6-9CzQNM Enjoy and fall in love with Norway!. Best regards, Emile _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 18 18:49:08 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2017 10:49:08 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Norway expedition In-Reply-To: <0c1801d3185a$45c380c0$d14a8240$@nl> References: <7b8a7b2c-5b88-83ce-07db-1831bf73f67d@psubs.org> <0bd401d31829$49dde140$dd99a3c0$@nl> <0c1801d3185a$45c380c0$d14a8240$@nl> Message-ID: <3D526D91-811D-4240-A938-490D0BCEB5D5@yahoo.com> Thanks Emile, great video, great adventure. I am interested that you say it was difficult to board in waves over 2 feet. Was this just getting from the support boat to the sub or was it to do with the sail not being high enough? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 19/08/2017, at 7:43 AM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, all, > > Thanks for the response. > Carsten and I were busy with operating the sub . Alexei , Nils and Andre (also a psubber from this list ) made great photo and video material. Nils Aukan is also a local amateur historican and was from great value for the team.. > Getting there is half the fun they say. Some serious hill climbing with the Defender, trailer and sub (6 Ts Total..) Wonder if I have the height record for a sub. > Design depth is 400 meter/ 1200 Ft. The sub functioned very well at open sea and 200 meter depth. However , diffucult to board with waves over 2 Ft. The Ocean reef comset is rated for 250 Meter but functioned with the surface boat 1000 meter away and we 200 meter deep! > Cornelis Drebbel was a 17 th century inventor, artist and submarine pioneer . Drebbel was from my home town. https://sites.google.com/site/ukdrebbel/ > > > Regards, Emile > > Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: vrijdag 18 augustus 2017 21:13 > Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Norway expedition > > Emile, what a great job on the dive video. Enjoyed seeing the boat trailered and all the underwater video both from the boat and divers. 203 meter dive on the SS Henry was impressive. What is the design depth of Drebbel? Also what is the significance of the name Drebbel? > > Thanks for sharing with us. Scenery in Norway was beautiful.' > > On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi, > > We organized a private expedition to Norway . Some have already seen some > pictures on Fb. > > Alexei from the Euronaut team joined and made this nice video which covers > the whole trip. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oc6-9CzQNM > > Enjoy and fall in love with Norway!. > > Best regards, Emile > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 20 07:50:14 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2017 11:50:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive References: <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is a bit skinny. ? I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has been converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard. ?I converted it many years ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine is stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil cooler. ?The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is it? ? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it dives. ?An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air through a duct to the outside of the sub. ?I know as a rule it is considered a bad idea but with careful ? installation it could be a very nice drive system. ?This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel engine. ?The Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to escape. ?The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel. ? I was bragging to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with two pulls in the spring. ?He said it must need a tune up LOL ?it should start in one pull. ?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 20 17:28:04 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2017 23:28:04 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Norway expedition In-Reply-To: <0c2f01d31866$85d5aba0$918102e0$@nl> References: <7b8a7b2c-5b88-83ce-07db-1831bf73f67d@psubs.org> <0bd401d31829$49dde140$dd99a3c0$@nl> <0c1801d3185a$45c380c0$d14a8240$@nl> <0c2f01d31866$85d5aba0$918102e0$@nl> Message-ID: Hi Emile; and all A dive on Brittanic would be terrific. Would be best to combine with scuba divers to get nice images of your sub. For my 200km trip, yes I am aiming for 2018. Just need a bit of funding to rent the boat and also refine a few things: find a proper shop close to home to work on the sub. make nice stainless steel battery boxes to avoid H2 in the cabin, refine prop blades for extra efficiency, revise steering control, add a skirt around the hatch to get extra protection from waves, buy an ocean reef phone set, replace a couple batteries (remember the one that sparked in Biscarosse Emile? well that one won t charge as much as the others... so it kind of breaks the symmetry of the bank. I noticed also the batteries on the + side of the 24V seem charging to slightly lower voltage than the ones on the - side...I wonder whether the batteries like the intermittency of the load due to our flash LEDs... ) regards, Antoine On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 11:11 PM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Antoine, > > > > Crossing the channal over 200 kilometer in a human power submarine is even > more challenging ;-) In 2018 the new attempt? > > > > No issue with authorities. Nils called the coast guard as we were diving > in the shipping lane. That is why I love Norway; just take your own > responsibility. There is a possible expedition to the Brittanic. But we > need a permit from the wrecks owner, the Greek authorities and the British > authorities.. > > > > Br, Emile > > > > *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles > *Verzonden:* vrijdag 18 augustus 2017 22:45 > > *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Norway expedition > > > > Emile, wreck diving at 200m, this is serious and awesome! > > > > did you have an issue with the authorities having a dutch sub diving in > Norwegian waters? > > > > regards > > Antoine > > > > On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 9:43 PM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Cliff, all, > > > > Thanks for the response. > > Carsten and I were busy with operating the sub . Alexei , Nils and Andre > (also a psubber from this list ) made great photo and video material. Nils > Aukan is also a local amateur historican and was from great value for the > team.. > > Getting there is half the fun they say. Some serious hill climbing with > the Defender, trailer and sub (6 Ts Total..) Wonder if I have the height > record for a sub. > > Design depth is 400 meter/ 1200 Ft. The sub functioned very well at open > sea and 200 meter depth. However , diffucult to board with waves over 2 > Ft. The Ocean reef comset is rated for 250 Meter but functioned with the > surface boat 1000 meter away and we 200 meter deep! > > Cornelis Drebbel was a 17 th century inventor, artist and submarine > pioneer . Drebbel was from my home town. https://sites.google.com/site/ > ukdrebbel/ > > > > > > Regards, Emile > > > > *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > *Verzonden:* vrijdag 18 augustus 2017 21:13 > *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Norway expedition > > > > Emile, what a great job on the dive video. Enjoyed seeing the boat > trailered and all the underwater video both from the boat and divers. 203 > meter dive on the SS Henry was impressive. What is the design depth of > Drebbel? Also what is the significance of the name Drebbel? > > > > Thanks for sharing with us. Scenery in Norway was beautiful.' > > > > On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Hi, > > We organized a private expedition to Norway . Some have already seen some > pictures on Fb. > > Alexei from the Euronaut team joined and made this nice video which covers > the whole trip. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oc6-9CzQNM > > Enjoy and fall in love with Norway!. > > Best regards, Emile > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 20 18:21:34 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2017 18:21:34 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive In-Reply-To: <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sorry to be critical, but yes, from an historical perspective a gas engine would be a big no-no as gas powered subs were death traps prior to the adoption of diesel. I always say my subs are at their most dangerous in the shop, not in the water. This could be a situation where the drained gas engine is not dangerous underwater but is dangerous during surface transit. And frankly storing the gas outboard sounds like a bit of a challenge in itself. I applaud original solutions, but this isn't one that sounds like a good idea, at least to me. Gamma seems to have pretty good range on batteries, and I recall you're planning on the trailerable landing craft. Would the landing craft not obviate the need for an onboard ICE? Cheers, Alec On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 7:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, > My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is a bit > skinny. I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has been > converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard. I converted it many years ago > to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine is > stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil > cooler. The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is > it? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of > fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it > dives. An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air > through a duct to the outside of the sub. I know as a rule it is > considered a bad idea but with careful installation it could be a very > nice drive system. This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel > engine. The Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I > need to escape. The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel. > I was bragging to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with > two pulls in the spring. He said it must need a tune up LOL it should > start in one pull. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 20 18:41:37 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2017 22:41:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive In-Reply-To: References: <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1716782844.1548252.1503268897669@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,Yes it may be to scary, I will give it more thought. ?I need more range, and my boat will not be ready for the spring of 2018. ?It is bad enough I missed this season ;-( ?I need a working submarine with reliable range and batteries will not do it. ? ?The danger is gas vapour reaching an explosive level. ?That would mean a leak and no proper venting coupled with an ignition source. ?Both these risks can be managed. ?Diesel fuel in a hot enclosed environment is not as volatile but still not without risk. ?In all fairness, you can't compare early antique engines with a modern-day Honda. ?My options are limited with an 18 inch opening. ?Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 4:21:51 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sorry to be critical, but yes, from an historical perspective a gas engine would be a big no-no as gas powered subs were death traps prior to the adoption of diesel. I always say my subs are at their most dangerous in the shop, not in the water. This could be a situation where the drained gas engine is not dangerous underwater but is dangerous during surface transit. And frankly storing the gas outboard sounds like a bit of a challenge in itself.? I applaud original solutions, but this isn't one that sounds like a good idea, at least to me. Gamma seems to have pretty good range on batteries, and I recall you're planning on the trailerable landing craft. Would the landing craft not obviate the need for an onboard ICE? Cheers, Alec On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 7:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is a bit skinny. ? I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has been converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard.? I converted it many years ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine is stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil cooler.? The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is it? ? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it dives.? An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air through a duct to the outside of the sub.? I know as a rule it is considered a bad idea but with careful ? installation it could be a very nice drive system.? This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel engine.? The Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to escape.? The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel. ? I was bragging to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with two pulls in the spring.? He said it must need a tune up LOL ?it should start in one pull. ?Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 20 19:02:17 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2017 16:02:17 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Message-ID: <33396700.8666.1503270138057@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 20 19:24:52 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2017 23:24:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive In-Reply-To: <33396700.8666.1503270138057@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <33396700.8666.1503270138057@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1015846448.1573242.1503271492426@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Ian,The engine will go into the escape pod through the hatch and needs to be removable so I can still use the escape pod. ?The gas vapour is heavier for sure but it would sink to the bottom of the sphere not the main sub hull. ?The venting could draw the air from the bottom of the sphere or from 2\3 of the way down from the top of the sphere. ?All good points to scare me off ;-)Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 5:02:30 PM MDT, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv7600256584 #yiv7600256584 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv7600256584 Hi Hank, one of the key dangers with gasoline vapor is that it's heavier than air, so it will pool inside the sub (this has not changed with advancements in ICE technology). ? Even with good ventilation, purging the pressure hull of gasoline vapor may be tricky. You could look at converting the engine to something which is lighter than air (hydrogen?), but this should under go a lot of research/experimentation to ensure it's safe. There has been a lot of discussion of using gas engines in sub in the past (bionic dolphin uses gas, but this is more enclosed jet skii than submarine), none of which seemed yield a safe approach to this. Could you cut open your hull to install the engine, then weld it up again? Good luck,? Ian. -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Aug 20, 2017 3:41 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Alec,Yes it may be to scary, I will give it more thought. ?I need more range, and my boat will not be ready for the spring of 2018. ?It is bad enough I missed this season ;-( ?I need a working submarine with reliable range and batteries will not do it. ? ?The danger is gas vapour reaching an explosive level. ?That would mean a leak and no proper venting coupled with an ignition source. ?Both these risks can be managed. ?Diesel fuel in a hot enclosed environment is not as volatile but still not without risk. ?In all fairness, you can't compare early antique engines with a modern-day Honda. ?My options are limited with an 18 inch opening. ?Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 4:21:51 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sorry to be critical, but yes, from an historical perspective a gas engine would be a big no-no as gas powered subs were death traps prior to the adoption of diesel. I always say my subs are at their most dangerous in the shop, not in the water. This could be a situation where the drained gas engine is not dangerous underwater but is dangerous during surface transit. And frankly storing the gas outboard sounds like a bit of a challenge in itself.? I applaud original solutions, but this isn't one that sounds like a good idea, at least to me. Gamma seems to have pretty good range on batteries, and I recall you're planning on the trailerable landing craft. Would the landing craft not obviate the need for an onboard ICE? Cheers, Alec On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 7:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is a bit skinny. ? I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has been converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard.? I converted it many years ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine is stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil cooler.? The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is it? ? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it dives.? An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air through a duct to the outside of the sub.? I know as a rule it is considered a bad idea but with careful ? installation it could be a very nice drive system.? This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel engine.? The Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to escape.? The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel. ? I was bragging to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with two pulls in the spring.? He said it must need a tune up LOL ?it should start in one pull. ?Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 20 19:45:12 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 11:45:12 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive In-Reply-To: <33396700.8666.1503270138057@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <33396700.8666.1503270138057@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <05f801d31a0e$5ffb85e0$1ff291a0$@gmail.com> Hi Hank, I am a believer of putting the fuel outside the vessel in the form of a bladder. 100 litres of diesel/petrol would weight about 83 and 75 kg resprctively so would be positive 17 or 25 kg flotation but if inside the vessel would be 83 kg negative and when empty would be 83 kg of unwanted flotation if diesel. The additional safety of having a bladder outside is the biggest consideration. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of irox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 11:02 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Hi Hank, one of the key dangers with gasoline vapor is that it's heavier than air, so it will pool inside the sub (this has not changed with advancements in ICE technology). Even with good ventilation, purging the pressure hull of gasoline vapor may be tricky. You could look at converting the engine to something which is lighter than air (hydrogen?), but this should under go a lot of research/experimentation to ensure it's safe. There has been a lot of discussion of using gas engines in sub in the past (bionic dolphin uses gas, but this is more enclosed jet skii than submarine), none of which seemed yield a safe approach to this. Could you cut open your hull to install the engine, then weld it up again? Good luck, Ian. -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Aug 20, 2017 3:41 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Alec, Yes it may be to scary, I will give it more thought. I need more range, and my boat will not be ready for the spring of 2018. It is bad enough I missed this season ;-( I need a working submarine with reliable range and batteries will not do it. The danger is gas vapour reaching an explosive level. That would mean a leak and no proper venting coupled with an ignition source. Both these risks can be managed. Diesel fuel in a hot enclosed environment is not as volatile but still not without risk. In all fairness, you can't compare early antique engines with a modern-day Honda. My options are limited with an 18 inch opening. Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 4:21:51 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sorry to be critical, but yes, from an historical perspective a gas engine would be a big no-no as gas powered subs were death traps prior to the adoption of diesel. I always say my subs are at their most dangerous in the shop, not in the water. This could be a situation where the drained gas engine is not dangerous underwater but is dangerous during surface transit. And frankly storing the gas outboard sounds like a bit of a challenge in itself. I applaud original solutions, but this isn't one that sounds like a good idea, at least to me. Gamma seems to have pretty good range on batteries, and I recall you're planning on the trailerable landing craft. Would the landing craft not obviate the need for an onboard ICE? Cheers, Alec On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 7:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is a bit skinny. I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has been converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard. I converted it many years ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine is stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil cooler. The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is it? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it dives. An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air through a duct to the outside of the sub. I know as a rule it is considered a bad idea but with careful installation it could be a very nice drive system. This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel engine. The Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to escape. The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel. I was bragging to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with two pulls in the spring. He said it must need a tune up LOL it should start in one pull. Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 20 19:56:08 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2017 23:56:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive In-Reply-To: <05f801d31a0e$5ffb85e0$1ff291a0$@gmail.com> References: <33396700.8666.1503270138057@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <05f801d31a0e$5ffb85e0$1ff291a0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1244001254.1576578.1503273368221@mail.yahoo.com> Hugh,I had two options in mind, well actually three. ?One was a bladder, the other a full pressure rated tank or a detachable tank that stores in the inflatable tender that I am now towing. ? The bladder would be very easy and I have an enclosed space for it already. ?I also would only need about 20 litres.Detaching would probably be the most simple. ?Inside the sub is not an option at all.You have a couple of high power gas engines in Q-sub ? ?They must be in a pressure compensated enclosure. ?I tried to find that information today to steal an idea or two ;-) ? You must also be dealing with potential vapours.Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 5:45:35 PM MDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv2718311010 #yiv2718311010 -- _filtered #yiv2718311010 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2718311010 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2718311010 {}#yiv2718311010 #yiv2718311010 p.yiv2718311010MsoNormal, #yiv2718311010 li.yiv2718311010MsoNormal, #yiv2718311010 div.yiv2718311010MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv2718311010 a:link, #yiv2718311010 span.yiv2718311010MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2718311010 a:visited, #yiv2718311010 span.yiv2718311010MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2718311010 span.yiv2718311010hoenzb {}#yiv2718311010 span.yiv2718311010EmailStyle18 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv2718311010 .yiv2718311010MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv2718311010 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv2718311010 div.yiv2718311010WordSection1 {}#yiv2718311010 Hi Hank, I am a believer of putting the fuel outside the vessel in the form of a bladder.? 100 litres of diesel/petrol would weight about 83 and 75 kg resprctively so would be positive 17 or 25 kg flotation but if inside the vessel would be 83 kg negative and when empty would be 83 kg of unwanted flotation if diesel.? The additional safety of having a bladder outside is the biggest consideration. Hugh ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of irox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 11:02 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive ? Hi Hank, ? one of the key dangers with gasoline vapor is that it's heavier than air, so it will pool inside the sub (this has not changed with advancements in ICE technology). ? Even with good ventilation, purging the pressure hull of gasoline vapor may be tricky. ? You could look at converting the engine to something which is lighter than air (hydrogen?), but this should under go a lot of research/experimentation to ensure it's safe. There has been a lot of discussion of using gas engines in sub in the past (bionic dolphin uses gas, but this is more enclosed jet skii than submarine), none of which seemed yield a safe approach to this. ? Could you cut open your hull to install the engine, then weld it up again? ? Good luck, ? Ian. -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Aug 20, 2017 3:41 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive ? ? Alec, Yes it may be to scary, I will give it more thought. ?I need more range, and my boat will not be ready for the spring of 2018. ?It is bad enough I missed this season ;-( ?I need a working submarine with reliable range and batteries will not do it. ? ? The danger is gas vapour reaching an explosive level. ?That would mean a leak and no proper venting coupled with an ignition source. ?Both these risks can be managed. ?Diesel fuel in a hot enclosed environment is not as volatile but still not without risk. ?In all fairness, you can't compare early antique engines with a modern-day Honda. ?My options are limited with an 18 inch opening. ? Hank ? ? On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 4:21:51 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Sorry to be critical, but yes, from an historical perspective a gas engine would be a big no-no as gas powered subs were death traps prior to the adoption of diesel. I always say my subs are at their most dangerous in the shop, not in the water. This could be a situation where the drained gas engine is not dangerous underwater but is dangerous during surface transit. And frankly storing the gas outboard sounds like a bit of a challenge in itself.? I applaud original solutions, but this isn't one that sounds like a good idea, at least to me. ? Gamma seems to have pretty good range on batteries, and I recall you're planning on the trailerable landing craft. Would the landing craft not obviate the need for an onboard ICE? ? ? Cheers, Alec ? On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 7:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is a bit skinny. ? I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has been converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard.? I converted it many years ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine is stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil cooler.? The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is it? ? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it dives.? An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air through a duct to the outside of the sub.? I know as a rule it is considered a bad idea but with careful ? installation it could be a very nice drive system.? This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel engine.? The Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to escape.? The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel. ? I was bragging to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with two pulls in the spring.? He said it must need a tune up LOL ?it should start in one pull. ? Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 20 21:18:39 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 13:18:39 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive In-Reply-To: <1244001254.1576578.1503273368221@mail.yahoo.com> References: <33396700.8666.1503270138057@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <05f801d31a0e$5ffb85e0$1ff291a0$@gmail.com> <1244001254.1576578.1503273368221@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <063301d31a1b$6e54b280$4afe1780$@gmail.com> Hi Hank, The engines are inside 24? diameter vessels rated for full depth Plus. Air intake is from the cabin so surface running the engines are drawing air in from snorkels into the cabin and then through non returns to the engine housing. That way surface running can have the hatch closed and fresh air is provided en route to the engines that way it keeps the cabin cool. Motors are using fuel injection. Not carburettors. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 11:56 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Hugh, I had two options in mind, well actually three. One was a bladder, the other a full pressure rated tank or a detachable tank that stores in the inflatable tender that I am now towing. The bladder would be very easy and I have an enclosed space for it already. I also would only need about 20 litres. Detaching would probably be the most simple. Inside the sub is not an option at all. You have a couple of high power gas engines in Q-sub ? They must be in a pressure compensated enclosure. I tried to find that information today to steal an idea or two ;-) You must also be dealing with potential vapours. Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 5:45:35 PM MDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, I am a believer of putting the fuel outside the vessel in the form of a bladder. 100 litres of diesel/petrol would weight about 83 and 75 kg resprctively so would be positive 17 or 25 kg flotation but if inside the vessel would be 83 kg negative and when empty would be 83 kg of unwanted flotation if diesel. The additional safety of having a bladder outside is the biggest consideration. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of irox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 11:02 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Hi Hank, one of the key dangers with gasoline vapor is that it's heavier than air, so it will pool inside the sub (this has not changed with advancements in ICE technology). Even with good ventilation, purging the pressure hull of gasoline vapor may be tricky. You could look at converting the engine to something which is lighter than air (hydrogen?), but this should under go a lot of research/experimentation to ensure it's safe. There has been a lot of discussion of using gas engines in sub in the past (bionic dolphin uses gas, but this is more enclosed jet skii than submarine), none of which seemed yield a safe approach to this. Could you cut open your hull to install the engine, then weld it up again? Good luck, Ian. -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Aug 20, 2017 3:41 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Alec, Yes it may be to scary, I will give it more thought. I need more range, and my boat will not be ready for the spring of 2018. It is bad enough I missed this season ;-( I need a working submarine with reliable range and batteries will not do it. The danger is gas vapour reaching an explosive level. That would mean a leak and no proper venting coupled with an ignition source. Both these risks can be managed. Diesel fuel in a hot enclosed environment is not as volatile but still not without risk. In all fairness, you can't compare early antique engines with a modern-day Honda. My options are limited with an 18 inch opening. Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 4:21:51 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sorry to be critical, but yes, from an historical perspective a gas engine would be a big no-no as gas powered subs were death traps prior to the adoption of diesel. I always say my subs are at their most dangerous in the shop, not in the water. This could be a situation where the drained gas engine is not dangerous underwater but is dangerous during surface transit. And frankly storing the gas outboard sounds like a bit of a challenge in itself. I applaud original solutions, but this isn't one that sounds like a good idea, at least to me. Gamma seems to have pretty good range on batteries, and I recall you're planning on the trailerable landing craft. Would the landing craft not obviate the need for an onboard ICE? Cheers, Alec On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 7:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is a bit skinny. I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has been converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard. I converted it many years ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine is stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil cooler. The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is it? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it dives. An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air through a duct to the outside of the sub. I know as a rule it is considered a bad idea but with careful installation it could be a very nice drive system. This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel engine. The Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to escape. The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel. I was bragging to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with two pulls in the spring. He said it must need a tune up LOL it should start in one pull. Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 20 21:53:59 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 01:53:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive References: <1157199618.1772512.1503280440001.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1157199618.1772512.1503280440001@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,Why not rig a small outboard to Gamma and stash it in the rubber raft when you dive ? -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 8/20/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Sunday, August 20, 2017, 6:56 PM Hugh,I had two options in mind, well actually three. ?One was a bladder, the other a full pressure rated tank or a detachable tank that stores in the inflatable tender that I am now towing. ? The bladder would be very easy and I have an enclosed space for it already. ?I also would only need about 20 litres.Detaching would probably be the most simple. ?Inside the sub is not an option at all.You have a couple of high power gas engines in Q-sub ? ?They must be in a pressure compensated enclosure. ?I tried to find that information today to steal an idea or two ;-) ? You must also be dealing with potential vapours.Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 5:45:35 PM MDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv5065617548 -- filtered {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} #yiv5065617548 filtered {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv5065617548 filtered {} #yiv5065617548 p.yiv5065617548MsoNormal, #yiv5065617548 li.yiv5065617548MsoNormal, #yiv5065617548 div.yiv5065617548MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv5065617548 a:link, #yiv5065617548 span.yiv5065617548MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv5065617548 a:visited, #yiv5065617548 span.yiv5065617548MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv5065617548 span.yiv5065617548hoenzb {} #yiv5065617548 span.yiv5065617548EmailStyle18 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv5065617548 .yiv5065617548MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} #yiv5065617548 filtered {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} #yiv5065617548 div.yiv5065617548WordSection1 {} #yiv5065617548 Hi Hank,I am a believer of putting the fuel outside the vessel in the form of a bladder.? 100 litres of diesel/petrol would weight about 83 and 75 kg resprctively so would be positive 17 or 25 kg flotation but if inside the vessel would be 83 kg negative and when empty would be 83 kg of unwanted flotation if diesel.? The additional safety of having a bladder outside is the biggest consideration. Hugh ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of irox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 11:02 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive ?Hi Hank, ?one of the key dangers with gasoline vapor is that it's heavier than air, so it will pool inside the sub (this has not changed with advancements in ICE technology). ? Even with good ventilation, purging the pressure hull of gasoline vapor may be tricky. ?You could look at converting the engine to something which is lighter than air (hydrogen?), but this should under go a lot of research/experimentation to ensure it's safe. There has been a lot of discussion of using gas engines in sub in the past (bionic dolphin uses gas, but this is more enclosed jet skii than submarine), none of which seemed yield a safe approach to this. ?Could you cut open your hull to install the engine, then weld it up again? ?Good luck,? Ian.-----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Aug 20, 2017 3:41 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive ? ?Alec,Yes it may be to scary, I will give it more thought. ?I need more range, and my boat will not be ready for the spring of 2018. ?It is bad enough I missed this season ;-( ?I need a working submarine with reliable range and batteries will not do it. ? ?The danger is gas vapour reaching an explosive level. ?That would mean a leak and no proper venting coupled with an ignition source. ?Both these risks can be managed. ?Diesel fuel in a hot enclosed environment is not as volatile but still not without risk. ?In all fairness, you can't compare early antique engines with a modern-day Honda. ?My options are limited with an 18 inch opening. ?Hank ? ?On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 4:21:51 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ?Sorry to be critical, but yes, from an historical perspective a gas engine would be a big no-no as gas powered subs were death traps prior to the adoption of diesel. I always say my subs are at their most dangerous in the shop, not in the water. This could be a situation where the drained gas engine is not dangerous underwater but is dangerous during surface transit. And frankly storing the gas outboard sounds like a bit of a challenge in itself.? I applaud original solutions, but this isn't one that sounds like a good idea, at least to me. ?Gamma seems to have pretty good range on batteries, and I recall you're planning on the trailerable landing craft. Would the landing craft not obviate the need for an onboard ICE? ? ?Cheers, Alec ?On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 7:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Hi All,My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is a bit skinny. ? I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has been converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard.? I converted it many years ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine is stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil cooler.? The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is it? ? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it dives.? An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air through a duct to the outside of the sub.? I know as a rule it is considered a bad idea but with careful ? installation it could be a very nice drive system.? This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel engine.? The Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to escape.? The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel. ? I was bragging to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with two pulls in the spring.? He said it must need a tune up LOL ?it should start in one pull. ?Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 21 07:16:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 11:16:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive In-Reply-To: <063301d31a1b$6e54b280$4afe1780$@gmail.com> References: <33396700.8666.1503270138057@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <05f801d31a0e$5ffb85e0$1ff291a0$@gmail.com> <1244001254.1576578.1503273368221@mail.yahoo.com> <063301d31a1b$6e54b280$4afe1780$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1713768071.1832843.1503314213778@mail.yahoo.com> Hugh,?That is a nice set up, and the fuel injection is ideal. ?Are you using a vapour sensor? ?Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 7:19:02 PM MDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv7507794405 #yiv7507794405 -- _filtered #yiv7507794405 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7507794405 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7507794405 {}#yiv7507794405 #yiv7507794405 p.yiv7507794405MsoNormal, #yiv7507794405 li.yiv7507794405MsoNormal, #yiv7507794405 div.yiv7507794405MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv7507794405 a:link, #yiv7507794405 span.yiv7507794405MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7507794405 a:visited, #yiv7507794405 span.yiv7507794405MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7507794405 p.yiv7507794405MsoAcetate, #yiv7507794405 li.yiv7507794405MsoAcetate, #yiv7507794405 div.yiv7507794405MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv7507794405 p.yiv7507794405msonormal, #yiv7507794405 li.yiv7507794405msonormal, #yiv7507794405 div.yiv7507794405msonormal {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv7507794405 p.yiv7507794405msochpdefault, #yiv7507794405 li.yiv7507794405msochpdefault, #yiv7507794405 div.yiv7507794405msochpdefault {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv7507794405 span.yiv7507794405msohyperlink {}#yiv7507794405 span.yiv7507794405msohyperlinkfollowed {}#yiv7507794405 span.yiv7507794405emailstyle18 {}#yiv7507794405 p.yiv7507794405msonormal1, #yiv7507794405 li.yiv7507794405msonormal1, #yiv7507794405 div.yiv7507794405msonormal1 {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv7507794405 span.yiv7507794405msohyperlink1 {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7507794405 span.yiv7507794405msohyperlinkfollowed1 {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7507794405 span.yiv7507794405emailstyle181 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv7507794405 p.yiv7507794405msochpdefault1, #yiv7507794405 li.yiv7507794405msochpdefault1, #yiv7507794405 div.yiv7507794405msochpdefault1 {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv7507794405 span.yiv7507794405EmailStyle27 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv7507794405 span.yiv7507794405BalloonTextChar {}#yiv7507794405 .yiv7507794405MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv7507794405 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv7507794405 div.yiv7507794405WordSection1 {}#yiv7507794405 Hi Hank, The engines are inside 24? diameter vessels rated for full depth Plus.? Air intake is from the cabin so surface running the engines are drawing air in from snorkels into the cabin and then through non returns to the engine housing.? That way surface running can have the hatch closed and fresh air is provided en route to the engines that way it keeps the cabin cool.? Motors are using fuel injection. Not carburettors.?? Hugh ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 11:56 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive ? Hugh, I had two options in mind, well actually three. ?One was a bladder, the other a full pressure rated tank or a detachable tank that stores in the inflatable tender that I am now towing. ? The bladder would be very easy and I have an enclosed space for it already. ?I also would only need about 20 litres. Detaching would probably be the most simple. ?Inside the sub is not an option at all. You have a couple of high power gas engines in Q-sub ? ?They must be in a pressure compensated enclosure. ?I tried to find that information today to steal an idea or two ;-) ? You must also be dealing with potential vapours. Hank ? ? On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 5:45:35 PM MDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hi Hank, I am a believer of putting the fuel outside the vessel in the form of a bladder.? 100 litres of diesel/petrol would weight about 83 and 75 kg resprctively so would be positive 17 or 25 kg flotation but if inside the vessel would be 83 kg negative and when empty would be 83 kg of unwanted flotation if diesel.? The additional safety of having a bladder outside is the biggest consideration. Hugh ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of irox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 11:02 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive ? Hi Hank, ? one of the key dangers with gasoline vapor is that it's heavier than air, so it will pool inside the sub (this has not changed with advancements in ICE technology). ? Even with good ventilation, purging the pressure hull of gasoline vapor may be tricky. ? You could look at converting the engine to something which is lighter than air (hydrogen?), but this should under go a lot of research/experimentation to ensure it's safe. There has been a lot of discussion of using gas engines in sub in the past (bionic dolphin uses gas, but this is more enclosed jet skii than submarine), none of which seemed yield a safe approach to this. ? Could you cut open your hull to install the engine, then weld it up again? ? Good luck, ? Ian. -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Aug 20, 2017 3:41 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive ? ? Alec, Yes it may be to scary, I will give it more thought. ?I need more range, and my boat will not be ready for the spring of 2018. ?It is bad enough I missed this season ;-( ?I need a working submarine with reliable range and batteries will not do it. ? ? The danger is gas vapour reaching an explosive level. ?That would mean a leak and no proper venting coupled with an ignition source. ?Both these risks can be managed. ?Diesel fuel in a hot enclosed environment is not as volatile but still not without risk. ?In all fairness, you can't compare early antique engines with a modern-day Honda. ?My options are limited with an 18 inch opening. ? Hank ? ? On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 4:21:51 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Sorry to be critical, but yes, from an historical perspective a gas engine would be a big no-no as gas powered subs were death traps prior to the adoption of diesel. I always say my subs are at their most dangerous in the shop, not in the water. This could be a situation where the drained gas engine is not dangerous underwater but is dangerous during surface transit. And frankly storing the gas outboard sounds like a bit of a challenge in itself.? I applaud original solutions, but this isn't one that sounds like a good idea, at least to me. ? Gamma seems to have pretty good range on batteries, and I recall you're planning on the trailerable landing craft. Would the landing craft not obviate the need for an onboard ICE? ? ? Cheers, Alec ? On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 7:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is a bit skinny. ? I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has been converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard.? I converted it many years ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine is stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil cooler.? The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is it? ? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it dives.? An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air through a duct to the outside of the sub.? I know as a rule it is considered a bad idea but with careful ? installation it could be a very nice drive system.? This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel engine.? The Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to escape.? The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel. ? I was bragging to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with two pulls in the spring.? He said it must need a tune up LOL ?it should start in one pull. ? Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 21 07:36:23 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 11:36:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive In-Reply-To: <1157199618.1772512.1503280440001@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1157199618.1772512.1503280440001.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1157199618.1772512.1503280440001@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1397685481.1839423.1503315383935@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Pete,I have looked ?at that idea and it is an option alright. ?The problem I want to avoid is getting out of the sub in bad weather and waves. ?I have done some experimenting by walking around Gamma to see how it would be to install a motor at sea. ?If there are waves, I would get wet. ?One option would be to instal a long motor bracket that can hinge up to make it easier. I have even looked at stowing an outboard inside the sub. ? ?I am usually alone and getting out of the sub in waves would be risky.The two lakes I want to spend my time in are very unpredictable. ?If I am towing my sub and have 5 miles to go and a storm whips up, it is pretty ugly.I have had that happen when attempting a deep test for Elementary. ?I was almost going to drop the sup off and go in without it. ?I got caught in a snow blizzard one time doing a deep test on another lake and luckily I was dressed for it but it is not a good situation. ?With an engine onboard I can have heat and air-conditioning ?and sip on a coffee while I head to shore. ?Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 7:54:19 PM MDT, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,Why not rig a small outboard to Gamma and stash it in the rubber raft when you dive ? -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 8/20/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Sunday, August 20, 2017, 6:56 PM Hugh,I had two options in mind, well actually three. ?One was a bladder, the other a full pressure rated tank or a detachable tank that stores in the inflatable tender that I am now towing. ? The bladder would be very easy and I have an enclosed space for it already. ?I also would only need about 20 litres.Detaching would probably be the most simple. ?Inside the sub is not an option at all.You have a couple of high power gas engines in Q-sub ? ?They must be in a pressure compensated enclosure. ?I tried to find that information today to steal an idea or two ;-) ? You must also be dealing with potential vapours.Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 5:45:35 PM MDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv5065617548? -- ? ? filtered? {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} #yiv5065617548 filtered? {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv5065617548 filtered? {} #yiv5065617548? ? p.yiv5065617548MsoNormal, #yiv5065617548 li.yiv5065617548MsoNormal, #yiv5065617548 div.yiv5065617548MsoNormal ??? {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv5065617548? a:link, #yiv5065617548 span.yiv5065617548MsoHyperlink ??? {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv5065617548? a:visited, #yiv5065617548 span.yiv5065617548MsoHyperlinkFollowed ??? {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv5065617548? span.yiv5065617548hoenzb ??? {} #yiv5065617548? span.yiv5065617548EmailStyle18 ??? {color:#1F497D;} #yiv5065617548? .yiv5065617548MsoChpDefault ??? {font-size:10.0pt;} #yiv5065617548 filtered? {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} #yiv5065617548? div.yiv5065617548WordSection1 ??? {} #yiv5065617548 Hi Hank,I am a believer of putting the fuel outside the vessel in the form of a bladder.? 100 litres of diesel/petrol would weight about 83 and 75 kg resprctively so would be positive 17 or 25 kg flotation but if inside the vessel would be 83 kg negative and when empty would be 83 kg of unwanted flotation if diesel.? The additional safety of having a bladder outside is the biggest consideration. Hugh ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of irox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 11:02 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive ?Hi Hank, ?one of the key dangers with gasoline vapor is that it's heavier than air, so it will pool inside the sub (this has not changed with advancements in ICE technology). ? Even with good ventilation, purging the pressure hull of gasoline vapor may be tricky. ?You could look at converting the engine to something which is lighter than air (hydrogen?), but this should under go a lot of research/experimentation to ensure it's safe. There has been a lot of discussion of using gas engines in sub in the past (bionic dolphin uses gas, but this is more enclosed jet skii than submarine), none of which seemed yield a safe approach to this. ?Could you cut open your hull to install the engine, then weld it up again? ?Good luck,? Ian.-----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Aug 20, 2017 3:41 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive ? ? ?Alec,Yes it may be to scary, I will give it more thought. ?I need more range, and my boat will not be ready for the spring of 2018. ?It is bad enough I missed this season ;-( ?I need a working submarine with reliable range and batteries will not do it. ? ?The danger is gas vapour reaching an explosive level. ?That would mean a leak and no proper venting coupled with an ignition source. ?Both these risks can be managed. ?Diesel fuel in a hot enclosed environment is not as volatile but still not without risk. ?In all fairness, you can't compare early antique engines with a modern-day Honda. ?My options are limited with an 18 inch opening. ?Hank ? ?On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 4:21:51 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ?Sorry to be critical, but yes, from an historical perspective a gas engine would be a big no-no as gas powered subs were death traps prior to the adoption of diesel. I always say my subs are at their most dangerous in the shop, not in the water. This could be a situation where the drained gas engine is not dangerous underwater but is dangerous during surface transit. And frankly storing the gas outboard sounds like a bit of a challenge in itself.? I applaud original solutions, but this isn't one that sounds like a good idea, at least to me. ?Gamma seems to have pretty good range on batteries, and I recall you're planning on the trailerable landing craft. Would the landing craft not obviate the need for an onboard ICE? ? ?Cheers, Alec ?On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 7:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Hi All,My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is a bit skinny. ? I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has been converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard.? I converted it many years ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine is stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil cooler.? The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is it? ? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it dives.? An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air through a duct to the outside of the sub.? I know as a rule it is considered a bad idea but with careful ? installation it could be a very nice drive system.? This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel engine.? The Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to escape.? The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel. ? I was bragging to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with two pulls in the spring.? He said it must need a tune up LOL ?it should start in one pull. ?Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 21 08:01:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 12:01:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive In-Reply-To: <1397685481.1839423.1503315383935@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1157199618.1772512.1503280440001.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1157199618.1772512.1503280440001@mail.yahoo.com> <1397685481.1839423.1503315383935@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1202835854.1858305.1503316916837@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Hugh,I have been bench testing my Honda and taking temperature readings. ?I have an area on the engine that hits 150 F ?while the rest of the engine is around 110 F ?. ?That makes me think I need good air circulation for additional cooling as well as for potential gas vapour. ?Have you done heat build up testing? ?Are you supplementing the air space with additional air circulation beyond the air consumed by the engine? If these details are proprietary, I understand if you don't want to share.Hank On Monday, August 21, 2017, 5:40:43 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Pete,I have looked ?at that idea and it is an option alright. ?The problem I want to avoid is getting out of the sub in bad weather and waves. ?I have done some experimenting by walking around Gamma to see how it would be to install a motor at sea. ?If there are waves, I would get wet. ?One option would be to instal a long motor bracket that can hinge up to make it easier. I have even looked at stowing an outboard inside the sub. ? ?I am usually alone and getting out of the sub in waves would be risky.The two lakes I want to spend my time in are very unpredictable. ?If I am towing my sub and have 5 miles to go and a storm whips up, it is pretty ugly.I have had that happen when attempting a deep test for Elementary. ?I was almost going to drop the sup off and go in without it. ?I got caught in a snow blizzard one time doing a deep test on another lake and luckily I was dressed for it but it is not a good situation. ?With an engine onboard I can have heat and air-conditioning ?and sip on a coffee while I head to shore. ?Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 7:54:19 PM MDT, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,Why not rig a small outboard to Gamma and stash it in the rubber raft when you dive ? -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 8/20/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Sunday, August 20, 2017, 6:56 PM Hugh,I had two options in mind, well actually three. ?One was a bladder, the other a full pressure rated tank or a detachable tank that stores in the inflatable tender that I am now towing. ? The bladder would be very easy and I have an enclosed space for it already. ?I also would only need about 20 litres.Detaching would probably be the most simple. ?Inside the sub is not an option at all.You have a couple of high power gas engines in Q-sub ? ?They must be in a pressure compensated enclosure. ?I tried to find that information today to steal an idea or two ;-) ? You must also be dealing with potential vapours.Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 5:45:35 PM MDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv5065617548? -- ? ? filtered? {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} #yiv5065617548 filtered? {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv5065617548 filtered? {} #yiv5065617548? ? p.yiv5065617548MsoNormal, #yiv5065617548 li.yiv5065617548MsoNormal, #yiv5065617548 div.yiv5065617548MsoNormal ??? {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv5065617548? a:link, #yiv5065617548 span.yiv5065617548MsoHyperlink ??? {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv5065617548? a:visited, #yiv5065617548 span.yiv5065617548MsoHyperlinkFollowed ??? {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv5065617548? span.yiv5065617548hoenzb ??? {} #yiv5065617548? span.yiv5065617548EmailStyle18 ??? {color:#1F497D;} #yiv5065617548? .yiv5065617548MsoChpDefault ??? {font-size:10.0pt;} #yiv5065617548 filtered? {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} #yiv5065617548? div.yiv5065617548WordSection1 ??? {} #yiv5065617548 Hi Hank,I am a believer of putting the fuel outside the vessel in the form of a bladder.? 100 litres of diesel/petrol would weight about 83 and 75 kg resprctively so would be positive 17 or 25 kg flotation but if inside the vessel would be 83 kg negative and when empty would be 83 kg of unwanted flotation if diesel.? The additional safety of having a bladder outside is the biggest consideration. Hugh ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of irox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 11:02 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive ?Hi Hank, ?one of the key dangers with gasoline vapor is that it's heavier than air, so it will pool inside the sub (this has not changed with advancements in ICE technology). ? Even with good ventilation, purging the pressure hull of gasoline vapor may be tricky. ?You could look at converting the engine to something which is lighter than air (hydrogen?), but this should under go a lot of research/experimentation to ensure it's safe. There has been a lot of discussion of using gas engines in sub in the past (bionic dolphin uses gas, but this is more enclosed jet skii than submarine), none of which seemed yield a safe approach to this. ?Could you cut open your hull to install the engine, then weld it up again? ?Good luck,? Ian.-----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Aug 20, 2017 3:41 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive ? ? ?Alec,Yes it may be to scary, I will give it more thought. ?I need more range, and my boat will not be ready for the spring of 2018. ?It is bad enough I missed this season ;-( ?I need a working submarine with reliable range and batteries will not do it. ? ?The danger is gas vapour reaching an explosive level. ?That would mean a leak and no proper venting coupled with an ignition source. ?Both these risks can be managed. ?Diesel fuel in a hot enclosed environment is not as volatile but still not without risk. ?In all fairness, you can't compare early antique engines with a modern-day Honda. ?My options are limited with an 18 inch opening. ?Hank ? ?On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 4:21:51 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ?Sorry to be critical, but yes, from an historical perspective a gas engine would be a big no-no as gas powered subs were death traps prior to the adoption of diesel. I always say my subs are at their most dangerous in the shop, not in the water. This could be a situation where the drained gas engine is not dangerous underwater but is dangerous during surface transit. And frankly storing the gas outboard sounds like a bit of a challenge in itself.? I applaud original solutions, but this isn't one that sounds like a good idea, at least to me. ?Gamma seems to have pretty good range on batteries, and I recall you're planning on the trailerable landing craft. Would the landing craft not obviate the need for an onboard ICE? ? ?Cheers, Alec ?On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 7:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Hi All,My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is a bit skinny. ? I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has been converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard.? I converted it many years ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine is stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil cooler.? The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is it? ? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it dives.? An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air through a duct to the outside of the sub.? I know as a rule it is considered a bad idea but with careful ? installation it could be a very nice drive system.? This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel engine.? The Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to escape.? The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel. ? I was bragging to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with two pulls in the spring.? He said it must need a tune up LOL ?it should start in one pull. ?Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 21 08:37:58 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 12:37:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <299519125.3294374.1502887663808@mail.yahoo.com> References: <398298995.883196.1502632195531.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <398298995.883196.1502632195531@mail.yahoo.com> <1502640984921.2521318.6de5d1b8302ae6bb756f548c808eed45df1ee831@spica.telekom.de> <1622683698.1029574.1502649486538@mail.yahoo.com> <3ce5051a-92f8-5161-65d9-84f0d65616d2@ohiohills.com> <312451248.1589324.1502742550490@mail.yahoo.com> <6902f2af-771b-a63d-f214-b936b8dd77e5@ohiohills.com> <299519125.3294374.1502887663808@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <561363362.2050009.1503319078930@mail.yahoo.com> Latest news from Denmark is that Madsen has told authorities Kim Wall died onboard his submarine due to an "accident" and he buried her at sea. ?I wonder what kind of person it takes to make so many people walk through so much bullshit. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 21 11:24:11 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 15:24:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive In-Reply-To: <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1438135149.2797729.1503329051407@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Hank,An idea is to convert the motor to ethanol, it looses 10% power, but ethanol is saver than gasoline. The greatest problem is to avoid that the passengers drink the fuel :-).Best wishesJuergen hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles schrieb am 6:52 Sonntag, 20.August 2017: Hi All,My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is a bit skinny. ? I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has been converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard. ?I converted it many years ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine is stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil cooler. ?The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is it? ? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it dives. ?An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air through a duct to the outside of the sub. ?I know as a rule it is considered a bad idea but with careful ? installation it could be a very nice drive system. ?This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel engine. ?The Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to escape. ?The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel. ? I was bragging to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with two pulls in the spring. ?He said it must need a tune up LOL ?it should start in one pull. ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 21 15:25:03 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:25:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive In-Reply-To: <1438135149.2797729.1503329051407@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414@mail.yahoo.com> <1438135149.2797729.1503329051407@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406613451.2169054.1503343503293@mail.yahoo.com> Juergen,That is interesting, what makes Ethanol safer? ?does it have a lower flash point? ?No worries with the passengers drinking the fuel, I will post a sign that says" if you drink the fuel you have to swim home" ?;-)Hank On Monday, August 21, 2017, 9:24:42 AM MDT, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank,An idea is to convert the motor to ethanol, it looses 10% power, but ethanol is saver than gasoline. The greatest problem is to avoid that the passengers drink the fuel :-).Best wishesJuergen hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles schrieb am 6:52 Sonntag, 20.August 2017: Hi All,My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is a bit skinny. ? I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has been converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard. ?I converted it many years ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine is stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil cooler. ?The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is it? ? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it dives. ?An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air through a duct to the outside of the sub. ?I know as a rule it is considered a bad idea but with careful ? installation it could be a very nice drive system. ?This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel engine. ?The Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to escape. ?The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel. ? I was bragging to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with two pulls in the spring. ?He said it must need a tune up LOL ?it should start in one pull. ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 21 16:00:14 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:00:14 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <561363362.2050009.1503319078930@mail.yahoo.com> References: <398298995.883196.1502632195531.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <398298995.883196.1502632195531@mail.yahoo.com> <1502640984921.2521318.6de5d1b8302ae6bb756f548c808eed45df1ee831@spica.telekom.de> <1622683698.1029574.1502649486538@mail.yahoo.com> <3ce5051a-92f8-5161-65d9-84f0d65616d2@ohiohills.com> <312451248.1589324.1502742550490@mail.yahoo.com> <6902f2af-771b-a63d-f214-b936b8dd77e5@ohiohills.com> <299519125.3294374.1502887663808@mail.yahoo.com> <561363362.2050009.1503319078930@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9770E6A5-F529-4646-BBBE-C629173702D4@yahoo.com> Jon, I guess that's a step toward the truth; it's a bit more plausible than his previous statement. However if someone had an accident on your submarine & you thought they were not breathing, then the first thing a normal person would do is radio emergency services. Instead he performed a private burial at sea. A more plausible explanation could be that he raped & murdered her & got rid of the body because of the dna evidence; then headed to Port to do a big clean up. When he was intercepted he disposed of his sub to cover up the rest of the evidence! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 22/08/2017, at 12:37 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Latest news from Denmark is that Madsen has told authorities Kim Wall died onboard his submarine due to an "accident" and he buried her at sea. I wonder what kind of person it takes to make so many people walk through so much bullshit. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 21 16:20:34 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 14:20:34 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: jssYdNd5hvNWZjssZdpdHH References: <398298995.883196.1502632195531.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <398298995.883196.1502632195531@mail.yahoo.com> <1502640984921.2521318.6de5d1b8302ae6bb756f548c808eed45df1ee831@spica.telekom.de> <1622683698.1029574.1502649486538@mail.yahoo.com> <3ce5051a-92f8-5161-65d9-84f0d65616d2@ohiohills.com> <312451248.1589324.1502742550490@mail.yahoo.com> <6902f2af-771b-a63d-f214-b936b8dd77e5@ohiohills.com> <299519125.3294374.1502887663808@mail.yahoo.com> <561363362.2050009.1503319078930@mail.yahoo.com> jssYdNd5hvNWZjssZdpdHH Message-ID: <8ab86341-fc39-4f3e-963a-536ea2ca679b@email.android.com> Such speculation helps no one. I trust that the law enforcement investigators will do their jobs, and that a more informative statement will be forthcoming. Sean On August 21, 2017 2:00:14 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Jon, >I guess that's a step toward the truth; it's a bit more plausible than >his previous statement. However if someone had an accident on your >submarine & you thought they were not breathing, then the first thing >a normal person would do is radio emergency services. Instead he >performed a private burial at sea. >A more plausible explanation could be that he raped & murdered her & >got rid of the body because of the dna evidence; then headed to Port to > >do a big clean up. When he was intercepted he disposed of his sub to >cover up the rest of the evidence! >Alan > > > >Sent from my iPad > >> On 22/08/2017, at 12:37 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Latest news from Denmark is that Madsen has told authorities Kim Wall >died onboard his submarine due to an "accident" and he buried her at >sea. I wonder what kind of person it takes to make so many people walk >through so much bullshit. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 21 17:04:23 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 09:04:23 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <8ab86341-fc39-4f3e-963a-536ea2ca679b@email.android.com> References: <398298995.883196.1502632195531.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <398298995.883196.1502632195531@mail.yahoo.com> <1502640984921.2521318.6de5d1b8302ae6bb756f548c808eed45df1ee831@spica.telekom.de> <1622683698.1029574.1502649486538@mail.yahoo.com> <3ce5051a-92f8-5161-65d9-84f0d65616d2@ohiohills.com> <312451248.1589324.1502742550490@mail.yahoo.com> <6902f2af-771b-a63d-f214-b936b8dd77e5@ohiohills.com> <299519125.3294374.1502887663808@mail.yahoo.com> <561363362.2050009.1503319078930@mail.yahoo.com> <8ab86341-fc39-4f3e-963a-536ea2ca679b@email.android.com> Message-ID: Have you not been following this Sean? Authorities charged him with manslaughter & were holding him on suspicion of murder when he was still telling everyone he dropped her off on an Island & that his sub sank accidentally. As Jon points out he has already stuffed a lot of people around, including the girls family & friends, investigators, search people etc. by lying. And if his current story is true, he is still guilty of disposing of her body. The truth may never come out; so you may be waiting for a long time for that! Sent from my iPad > On 22/08/2017, at 8:20 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Such speculation helps no one. I trust that the law enforcement investigators will do their jobs, and that a more informative statement will be forthcoming. > > Sean > > >> On August 21, 2017 2:00:14 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Jon, >> I guess that's a step toward the truth; it's a bit more plausible than >> his previous statement. However if someone had an accident on your >> submarine & you thought they were not breathing, then the first thing >> a normal person would do is radio emergency services. Instead he >> performed a private burial at sea. >> A more plausible explanation could be that he raped & murdered her & >> got rid of the body because of the dna evidence; then headed to Port to >> do a big clean up. When he was intercepted he disposed of his sub to >> cover up the rest of the evidence! >> Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 22/08/2017, at 12:37 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Latest news from Denmark is that Madsen has told authorities Kim Wall died onboard his submarine due to an "accident" and he buried her at sea. I wonder what kind of person it takes to make so many people walk through so much bullshit. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 21 17:36:11 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 15:36:11 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: jtsbdp4t6pSnAjtscdpaJf References: <398298995.883196.1502632195531.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <398298995.883196.1502632195531@mail.yahoo.com> <1502640984921.2521318.6de5d1b8302ae6bb756f548c808eed45df1ee831@spica.telekom.de> <1622683698.1029574.1502649486538@mail.yahoo.com> <3ce5051a-92f8-5161-65d9-84f0d65616d2@ohiohills.com> <312451248.1589324.1502742550490@mail.yahoo.com> <6902f2af-771b-a63d-f214-b936b8dd77e5@ohiohills.com> <299519125.3294374.1502887663808@mail.yahoo.com> <561363362.2050009.1503319078930@mail.yahoo.com> <8ab86341-fc39-4f3e-963a-536ea2ca679b@email.android.com> jtsbdp4t6pSnAjtscdpaJf Message-ID: <3c117e73-5f39-4fa6-bf8e-5ec715aa76cb@email.android.com> I have been following the story, and it is pretty clear that something is amiss, but rape and murder allegations are very severe, and should probably not be thrown around in the absence of conclusive information. It would seem that, despite the efforts of investigators so far, the only person who likely knows what happened is Peter. Hopefully he will come clean. Sean On August 21, 2017 3:04:23 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Have you not been following this Sean? >Authorities charged him with manslaughter & were holding >him on suspicion of murder when he was still telling everyone >he dropped her off on an Island & that his sub sank accidentally. >As Jon points out he has already stuffed a lot of people around, >including >the girls family & friends, investigators, search people etc. by lying. >And if his current story is true, he is still guilty of disposing of >her body. >The truth may never come out; so you may be waiting for a long time >for that! > >Sent from my iPad > >> On 22/08/2017, at 8:20 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Such speculation helps no one. I trust that the law enforcement >investigators will do their jobs, and that a more informative statement >will be forthcoming. >> >> Sean >> >> >>> On August 21, 2017 2:00:14 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >>> Jon, >>> I guess that's a step toward the truth; it's a bit more plausible >than >>> his previous statement. However if someone had an accident on your >>> submarine & you thought they were not breathing, then the first >thing >>> a normal person would do is radio emergency services. Instead he >>> performed a private burial at sea. >>> A more plausible explanation could be that he raped & murdered her & > >>> got rid of the body because of the dna evidence; then headed to Port >to >>> do a big clean up. When he was intercepted he disposed of his sub to > >>> cover up the rest of the evidence! >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 22/08/2017, at 12:37 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >>>> >>>> Latest news from Denmark is that Madsen has told authorities Kim >Wall died onboard his submarine due to an "accident" and he buried her >at sea. I wonder what kind of person it takes to make so many people >walk through so much bullshit. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 21 18:21:08 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 18:21:08 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <3c117e73-5f39-4fa6-bf8e-5ec715aa76cb@email.android.com> References: jtsbdp4t6pSnAjtscdpaJf <3c117e73-5f39-4fa6-bf8e-5ec715aa76cb@email.android.com> Message-ID: <15e06e29dfe-c08-6641@webjas-vae158.srv.aolmail.net> Per Fox News today: ?Jim T. Kim Wall, missing Swedish journalist, died on home-built submarine, inventor reportedly tells copsPublished August 21, 2017Fox News ?Submarine owner Peter Madsen, shown in 2008, said Kim Wall died about his craft.Submarine owner Peter Madsen, shown in 2008, said Kim Wall died about his craft. ?(AP) The owner of a home-built submarine recently told investigators that missing Swedish journalist Kim Wall died aboard his craft during an unspecified accident and he buried her at sea -- but then concocted a story alleging his sub malfunctioned, Danish police said Monday. Peter Madsen will continue to be held on preliminary manslaughter charges, according to Copenhagen police, who declined to provide more details. Wall, a 30-year-old journalist who was seen departing with Madsen shortly before the submarine UC3 Nautilus sank, disappeared more than a week ago. Kim WallExpand / Collapse Swedish journalist Kim Wall was writing about the home-built sub at the time of her death. ?(AP)Madsen, 46, was the lone survivor after his 40-ton homemade Nautilus sub foundered off Denmark?s eastern coast on Aug. 10. He was arrested hours after he was rescued, hit with preliminary manslaughter charges in the death of Wall. ? In a message dated 8/21/2017 4:36:43 PM Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: ? I have been following the story, and it is pretty clear that something is amiss, but rape and murder allegations are very severe, and should probably not be thrown around in the absence of conclusive information.? It would seem that, despite the efforts of investigators so far, the only person who likely knows what happened is Peter. Hopefully he will come clean. Sean On August 21, 2017 3:04:23 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Have you not been following this Sean? Authorities charged him with manslaughter & were holding him on suspicion of murder when he was still telling everyone he dropped her off on an Island & that his sub sank accidentally. As Jon points out he has already stuffed a lot of people around, including the girls family & friends, investigators, search people etc. by lying. And if his current story is true, he is still guilty of disposing of her body. The truth may never come out; so you may be waiting for a long time for that! Sent from my iPad On 22/08/2017, at 8:20 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Such speculation helps no one. I trust that? the law enforcement investigators will do their jobs, and that a more informative statement will be forthcoming. Sean On August 21, 2017 2:00:14 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, I guess that's a step toward the truth; it's a bit more plausible than his previous statement. However if someone had an accident on your submarine & you thought they were not breathing, then the first thing a normal person would do is radio emergency services. Instead he performed a private burial at sea. A more plausible explanation could be that he raped & murdered her & got rid of the body because of the dna evidence; then headed to Port to do a big clean up. When he was intercepted he disposed of his sub to cover up the rest of the evidence! Alan ? ? Sent from my iPad On 22/08/2017, at 12:37 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Latest news from Denmark is that Madsen has told authorities Kim Wall died onboard his submarine due to an "accident" and he buried her at sea. ?I wonder what kind of person it takes to make so many people walk through so much bullshit. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 21 18:27:58 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 10:27:58 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive In-Reply-To: <1202835854.1858305.1503316916837@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1157199618.1772512.1503280440001.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1157199618.1772512.1503280440001@mail.yahoo.com> <1397685481.1839423.1503315383935@mail.yahoo.com> <1202835854.1858305.1503316916837@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <071501d31acc$c083a5a0$418af0e0$@gmail.com> Hi Hank, I am using jetski motors which are used to being in a small enclosure, are marinised, Rely only on the cooling water and air intake, Have water cooled exhaust manifold etc. Biggest problem is the rpm which I have made a water cooled gearbox for 2:1 reduction. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 22 August 2017 12:02 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Hi Hugh, I have been bench testing my Honda and taking temperature readings. I have an area on the engine that hits 150 F while the rest of the engine is around 110 F . That makes me think I need good air circulation for additional cooling as well as for potential gas vapour. Have you done heat build up testing? Are you supplementing the air space with additional air circulation beyond the air consumed by the engine? If these details are proprietary, I understand if you don't want to share. Hank On Monday, August 21, 2017, 5:40:43 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Pete, I have looked at that idea and it is an option alright. The problem I want to avoid is getting out of the sub in bad weather and waves. I have done some experimenting by walking around Gamma to see how it would be to install a motor at sea. If there are waves, I would get wet. One option would be to instal a long motor bracket that can hinge up to make it easier. I have even looked at stowing an outboard inside the sub. I am usually alone and getting out of the sub in waves would be risky. The two lakes I want to spend my time in are very unpredictable. If I am towing my sub and have 5 miles to go and a storm whips up, it is pretty ugly. I have had that happen when attempting a deep test for Elementary. I was almost going to drop the sup off and go in without it. I got caught in a snow blizzard one time doing a deep test on another lake and luckily I was dressed for it but it is not a good situation. With an engine onboard I can have heat and air-conditioning and sip on a coffee while I head to shore. Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 7:54:19 PM MDT, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,Why not rig a small outboard to Gamma and stash it in the rubber raft when you dive ? -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 8/20/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Sunday, August 20, 2017, 6:56 PM Hugh,I had two options in mind, well actually three. One was a bladder, the other a full pressure rated tank or a detachable tank that stores in the inflatable tender that I am now towing. The bladder would be very easy and I have an enclosed space for it already. I also would only need about 20 litres.Detaching would probably be the most simple. Inside the sub is not an option at all.You have a couple of high power gas engines in Q-sub ? They must be in a pressure compensated enclosure. I tried to find that information today to steal an idea or two ;-) You must also be dealing with potential vapours.Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 5:45:35 PM MDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv5065617548 -- filtered {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} #yiv5065617548 filtered {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv5065617548 filtered {} #yiv5065617548 p.yiv5065617548MsoNormal, #yiv5065617548 li.yiv5065617548MsoNormal, #yiv5065617548 div.yiv5065617548MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv5065617548 a:link, #yiv5065617548 span.yiv5065617548MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv5065617548 a:visited, #yiv5065617548 span.yiv5065617548MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv5065617548 span.yiv5065617548hoenzb {} #yiv5065617548 span.yiv5065617548EmailStyle18 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv5065617548 .yiv5065617548MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} #yiv5065617548 filtered {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} #yiv5065617548 div.yiv5065617548WordSection1 {} #yiv5065617548 Hi Hank,I am a believer of putting the fuel outside the vessel in the form of a bladder. 100 litres of diesel/petrol would weight about 83 and 75 kg resprctively so would be positive 17 or 25 kg flotation but if inside the vessel would be 83 kg negative and when empty would be 83 kg of unwanted flotation if diesel. The additional safety of having a bladder outside is the biggest consideration. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of irox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 11:02 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Hi Hank, one of the key dangers with gasoline vapor is that it's heavier than air, so it will pool inside the sub (this has not changed with advancements in ICE technology). Even with good ventilation, purging the pressure hull of gasoline vapor may be tricky. You could look at converting the engine to something which is lighter than air (hydrogen?), but this should under go a lot of research/experimentation to ensure it's safe. There has been a lot of discussion of using gas engines in sub in the past (bionic dolphin uses gas, but this is more enclosed jet skii than submarine), none of which seemed yield a safe approach to this. Could you cut open your hull to install the engine, then weld it up again? Good luck, Ian.-----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Aug 20, 2017 3:41 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Alec,Yes it may be to scary, I will give it more thought. I need more range, and my boat will not be ready for the spring of 2018. It is bad enough I missed this season ;-( I need a working submarine with reliable range and batteries will not do it. The danger is gas vapour reaching an explosive level. That would mean a leak and no proper venting coupled with an ignition source. Both these risks can be managed. Diesel fuel in a hot enclosed environment is not as volatile but still not without risk. In all fairness, you can't compare early antique engines with a modern-day Honda. My options are limited with an 18 inch opening. Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 4:21:51 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sorry to be critical, but yes, from an historical perspective a gas engine would be a big no-no as gas powered subs were death traps prior to the adoption of diesel. I always say my subs are at their most dangerous in the shop, not in the water. This could be a situation where the drained gas engine is not dangerous underwater but is dangerous during surface transit. And frankly storing the gas outboard sounds like a bit of a challenge in itself. I applaud original solutions, but this isn't one that sounds like a good idea, at least to me. Gamma seems to have pretty good range on batteries, and I recall you're planning on the trailerable landing craft. Would the landing craft not obviate the need for an onboard ICE? Cheers, Alec On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 7:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Hi All,My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is a bit skinny. I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has been converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard. I converted it many years ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine is stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil cooler. The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is it? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it dives. An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air through a duct to the outside of the sub. I know as a rule it is considered a bad idea but with careful installation it could be a very nice drive system. This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel engine. The Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to escape. The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel. I was bragging to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with two pulls in the spring. He said it must need a tune up LOL it should start in one pull. Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 21 18:58:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 10:58:50 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive In-Reply-To: <1713768071.1832843.1503314213778@mail.yahoo.com> References: <33396700.8666.1503270138057@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <05f801d31a0e$5ffb85e0$1ff291a0$@gmail.com> <1244001254.1576578.1503273368221@mail.yahoo.com> <063301d31a1b$6e54b280$4afe1780$@gmail.com> <1713768071.1832843.1503314213778@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <072901d31ad1$10164ba0$3042e2e0$@gmail.com> Hank, I?m a guy with a big nose so that is what it?s for. We make compressors and learned that too many instruments is a source for problems. As it is, I have too many instruments. Simplicity is best. However we have a CO monitor which also detects hydrogen so I think it might also do hydrocarbons. The biggest concern is exhaust fumes being drawn in through the snorkel from a following breeze when charging the batteries. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 11:17 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Hugh, That is a nice set up, and the fuel injection is ideal. Are you using a vapour sensor? Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 7:19:02 PM MDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, The engines are inside 24? diameter vessels rated for full depth Plus. Air intake is from the cabin so surface running the engines are drawing air in from snorkels into the cabin and then through non returns to the engine housing. That way surface running can have the hatch closed and fresh air is provided en route to the engines that way it keeps the cabin cool. Motors are using fuel injection. Not carburettors. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 11:56 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Hugh, I had two options in mind, well actually three. One was a bladder, the other a full pressure rated tank or a detachable tank that stores in the inflatable tender that I am now towing. The bladder would be very easy and I have an enclosed space for it already. I also would only need about 20 litres. Detaching would probably be the most simple. Inside the sub is not an option at all. You have a couple of high power gas engines in Q-sub ? They must be in a pressure compensated enclosure. I tried to find that information today to steal an idea or two ;-) You must also be dealing with potential vapours. Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 5:45:35 PM MDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, I am a believer of putting the fuel outside the vessel in the form of a bladder. 100 litres of diesel/petrol would weight about 83 and 75 kg resprctively so would be positive 17 or 25 kg flotation but if inside the vessel would be 83 kg negative and when empty would be 83 kg of unwanted flotation if diesel. The additional safety of having a bladder outside is the biggest consideration. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of irox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 11:02 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Hi Hank, one of the key dangers with gasoline vapor is that it's heavier than air, so it will pool inside the sub (this has not changed with advancements in ICE technology). Even with good ventilation, purging the pressure hull of gasoline vapor may be tricky. You could look at converting the engine to something which is lighter than air (hydrogen?), but this should under go a lot of research/experimentation to ensure it's safe. There has been a lot of discussion of using gas engines in sub in the past (bionic dolphin uses gas, but this is more enclosed jet skii than submarine), none of which seemed yield a safe approach to this. Could you cut open your hull to install the engine, then weld it up again? Good luck, Ian. -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Aug 20, 2017 3:41 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Alec, Yes it may be to scary, I will give it more thought. I need more range, and my boat will not be ready for the spring of 2018. It is bad enough I missed this season ;-( I need a working submarine with reliable range and batteries will not do it. The danger is gas vapour reaching an explosive level. That would mean a leak and no proper venting coupled with an ignition source. Both these risks can be managed. Diesel fuel in a hot enclosed environment is not as volatile but still not without risk. In all fairness, you can't compare early antique engines with a modern-day Honda. My options are limited with an 18 inch opening. Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 4:21:51 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sorry to be critical, but yes, from an historical perspective a gas engine would be a big no-no as gas powered subs were death traps prior to the adoption of diesel. I always say my subs are at their most dangerous in the shop, not in the water. This could be a situation where the drained gas engine is not dangerous underwater but is dangerous during surface transit. And frankly storing the gas outboard sounds like a bit of a challenge in itself. I applaud original solutions, but this isn't one that sounds like a good idea, at least to me. Gamma seems to have pretty good range on batteries, and I recall you're planning on the trailerable landing craft. Would the landing craft not obviate the need for an onboard ICE? Cheers, Alec On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 7:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is a bit skinny. I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has been converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard. I converted it many years ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine is stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil cooler. The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is it? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it dives. An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air through a duct to the outside of the sub. I know as a rule it is considered a bad idea but with careful installation it could be a very nice drive system. This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel engine. The Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to escape. The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel. I was bragging to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with two pulls in the spring. He said it must need a tune up LOL it should start in one pull. Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 21 19:30:31 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 23:30:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <15e06e29dfe-c08-6641@webjas-vae158.srv.aolmail.net> References: <3c117e73-5f39-4fa6-bf8e-5ec715aa76cb@email.android.com> <15e06e29dfe-c08-6641@webjas-vae158.srv.aolmail.net> Message-ID: <961941060.122350.1503358231140@mail.yahoo.com> I have to say that with the news Madsen's initial explanation was a lie, disqualifies him from any sympathy in my book. ?In latest developments, a woman's torso was recovered at waters edge in Copenhagen. ?No head, arms, or legs attached. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 21 19:37:11 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 23:37:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FREE: Handbook of Acrylics References: <973076524.110321.1503358631993.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <973076524.110321.1503358631993@mail.yahoo.com> Folks, I received a letter today from Michael Stachiw, son of the late Dr. Jerry Stachiw, that the family is now distributing copies of "Handbook of Acrylics" free of charge, you pay just shipping charges. ?I suspect once their stock is gone you will not see this book published again, therefore I encourage you to pick up a copy ASAP. Send email to fosserm at agbusinessmail.com or chris at agbusinessmail.com if you want a copy of the book. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 21 20:00:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 00:00:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus References: <532238235.142997.1503360053984.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <532238235.142997.1503360053984@mail.yahoo.com> Sounds like a helluva accident. -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 8/21/17, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Monday, August 21, 2017, 6:30 PM I have to say that with the news Madsen's initial explanation was a lie, disqualifies him from any sympathy in my book. ?In latest developments, a woman's torso was recovered at waters edge in Copenhagen. ?No head, arms, or legs attached._______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 21 20:06:27 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 17:06:27 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FREE: Handbook of Acrylics Message-ID: <619317.663.bm@smtp214.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Thanks Jon, email sent! Keith T. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/21/17 4:37 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FREE: Handbook of Acrylics Folks, I received a letter today from Michael Stachiw, son of the late Dr. Jerry Stachiw, that the family is now distributing copies of "Handbook of Acrylics" free of charge, you pay just shipping charges. ?I suspect once their stock is gone you will not see this book published again, therefore I encourage you to pick up a copy ASAP. Send email to fosserm at agbusinessmail.com or chris at agbusinessmail.com if you want a copy of the book. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 21 20:13:07 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 17:13:07 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus Message-ID: <691736.3999.bm@smtp113.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Only forensic analysis will tell if this body is connected to the "Madsen Incident". Too early to jump to any conclusions could be an unrelated corpse. Keith T. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/21/17 5:00 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus Sounds like a helluva accident. -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 8/21/17, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Monday, August 21, 2017, 6:30 PM I have to say that with the news Madsen's initial explanation was a lie, disqualifies him from any sympathy in my book. ?In latest developments, a woman's torso was recovered at waters edge in Copenhagen. ?No head, arms, or legs attached._______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 21 20:16:45 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 00:16:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive In-Reply-To: <072901d31ad1$10164ba0$3042e2e0$@gmail.com> References: <33396700.8666.1503270138057@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <05f801d31a0e$5ffb85e0$1ff291a0$@gmail.com> <1244001254.1576578.1503273368221@mail.yahoo.com> <063301d31a1b$6e54b280$4afe1780$@gmail.com> <1713768071.1832843.1503314213778@mail.yahoo.com> <072901d31ad1$10164ba0$3042e2e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <181864378.2378442.1503361005496@mail.yahoo.com> Hugh,Are your motor compartments open to the sub hull? ?Hank On Monday, August 21, 2017, 4:59:13 PM MDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv4923200777 #yiv4923200777 -- _filtered #yiv4923200777 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv4923200777 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} _filtered #yiv4923200777 {}#yiv4923200777 #yiv4923200777 p.yiv4923200777MsoNormal, #yiv4923200777 li.yiv4923200777MsoNormal, #yiv4923200777 div.yiv4923200777MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv4923200777 a:link, #yiv4923200777 span.yiv4923200777MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4923200777 a:visited, #yiv4923200777 span.yiv4923200777MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4923200777 p.yiv4923200777MsoAcetate, #yiv4923200777 li.yiv4923200777MsoAcetate, #yiv4923200777 div.yiv4923200777MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv4923200777 p.yiv4923200777msoacetate, #yiv4923200777 li.yiv4923200777msoacetate, #yiv4923200777 div.yiv4923200777msoacetate {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv4923200777 p.yiv4923200777msonormal, #yiv4923200777 li.yiv4923200777msonormal, #yiv4923200777 div.yiv4923200777msonormal {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv4923200777 p.yiv4923200777msochpdefault, #yiv4923200777 li.yiv4923200777msochpdefault, #yiv4923200777 div.yiv4923200777msochpdefault {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv4923200777 p.yiv4923200777msonormal1, #yiv4923200777 li.yiv4923200777msonormal1, #yiv4923200777 div.yiv4923200777msonormal1 {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv4923200777 p.yiv4923200777msochpdefault1, #yiv4923200777 li.yiv4923200777msochpdefault1, #yiv4923200777 div.yiv4923200777msochpdefault1 {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv4923200777 span.yiv4923200777msohyperlink {}#yiv4923200777 span.yiv4923200777msohyperlinkfollowed {}#yiv4923200777 span.yiv4923200777msohyperlink1 {}#yiv4923200777 span.yiv4923200777msohyperlinkfollowed1 {}#yiv4923200777 span.yiv4923200777emailstyle181 {}#yiv4923200777 span.yiv4923200777emailstyle27 {}#yiv4923200777 p.yiv4923200777msonormal2, #yiv4923200777 li.yiv4923200777msonormal2, #yiv4923200777 div.yiv4923200777msonormal2 {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv4923200777 span.yiv4923200777msohyperlink2 {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4923200777 span.yiv4923200777msohyperlinkfollowed2 {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4923200777 p.yiv4923200777msoacetate1, #yiv4923200777 li.yiv4923200777msoacetate1, #yiv4923200777 div.yiv4923200777msoacetate1 {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv4923200777 p.yiv4923200777msonormal3, #yiv4923200777 li.yiv4923200777msonormal3, #yiv4923200777 div.yiv4923200777msonormal3 {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv4923200777 p.yiv4923200777msochpdefault2, #yiv4923200777 li.yiv4923200777msochpdefault2, #yiv4923200777 div.yiv4923200777msochpdefault2 {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv4923200777 p.yiv4923200777msonormal11, #yiv4923200777 li.yiv4923200777msonormal11, #yiv4923200777 div.yiv4923200777msonormal11 {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv4923200777 span.yiv4923200777msohyperlink11 {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4923200777 span.yiv4923200777msohyperlinkfollowed11 {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4923200777 span.yiv4923200777emailstyle1811 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv4923200777 p.yiv4923200777msochpdefault11, #yiv4923200777 li.yiv4923200777msochpdefault11, #yiv4923200777 div.yiv4923200777msochpdefault11 {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv4923200777 span.yiv4923200777emailstyle271 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv4923200777 span.yiv4923200777EmailStyle40 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv4923200777 span.yiv4923200777BalloonTextChar {}#yiv4923200777 .yiv4923200777MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv4923200777 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv4923200777 div.yiv4923200777WordSection1 {}#yiv4923200777 Hank, I?m a guy with a big nose so that is what it?s for.? We make compressors and learned that too many instruments is a source for problems.? As it is, I have too many instruments.? Simplicity is best. However we have a CO monitor which also detects hydrogen so I think it might also do hydrocarbons. The biggest concern is exhaust fumes being drawn in through the snorkel from a following breeze when charging the batteries.? Hugh ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 11:17 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive ? Hugh,? That is a nice set up, and the fuel injection is ideal. ?Are you using a vapour sensor? ? Hank ? ? On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 7:19:02 PM MDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hi Hank, The engines are inside 24? diameter vessels rated for full depth Plus.? Air intake is from the cabin so surface running the engines are drawing air in from snorkels into the cabin and then through non returns to the engine housing.? That way surface running can have the hatch closed and fresh air is provided en route to the engines that way it keeps the cabin cool.? Motors are using fuel injection. Not carburettors.?? Hugh ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 11:56 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive ? Hugh, I had two options in mind, well actually three. ?One was a bladder, the other a full pressure rated tank or a detachable tank that stores in the inflatable tender that I am now towing. ? The bladder would be very easy and I have an enclosed space for it already. ?I also would only need about 20 litres. Detaching would probably be the most simple. ?Inside the sub is not an option at all. You have a couple of high power gas engines in Q-sub ? ?They must be in a pressure compensated enclosure. ?I tried to find that information today to steal an idea or two ;-) ? You must also be dealing with potential vapours. Hank ? ? On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 5:45:35 PM MDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hi Hank, I am a believer of putting the fuel outside the vessel in the form of a bladder.? 100 litres of diesel/petrol would weight about 83 and 75 kg resprctively so would be positive 17 or 25 kg flotation but if inside the vessel would be 83 kg negative and when empty would be 83 kg of unwanted flotation if diesel.? The additional safety of having a bladder outside is the biggest consideration. Hugh ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of irox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 11:02 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive ? Hi Hank, ? one of the key dangers with gasoline vapor is that it's heavier than air, so it will pool inside the sub (this has not changed with advancements in ICE technology). ? Even with good ventilation, purging the pressure hull of gasoline vapor may be tricky. ? You could look at converting the engine to something which is lighter than air (hydrogen?), but this should under go a lot of research/experimentation to ensure it's safe. There has been a lot of discussion of using gas engines in sub in the past (bionic dolphin uses gas, but this is more enclosed jet skii than submarine), none of which seemed yield a safe approach to this. ? Could you cut open your hull to install the engine, then weld it up again? ? Good luck, ? Ian. -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Aug 20, 2017 3:41 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive ? ? Alec, Yes it may be to scary, I will give it more thought. ?I need more range, and my boat will not be ready for the spring of 2018. ?It is bad enough I missed this season ;-( ?I need a working submarine with reliable range and batteries will not do it. ? ? The danger is gas vapour reaching an explosive level. ?That would mean a leak and no proper venting coupled with an ignition source. ?Both these risks can be managed. ?Diesel fuel in a hot enclosed environment is not as volatile but still not without risk. ?In all fairness, you can't compare early antique engines with a modern-day Honda. ?My options are limited with an 18 inch opening. ? Hank ? ? On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 4:21:51 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Sorry to be critical, but yes, from an historical perspective a gas engine would be a big no-no as gas powered subs were death traps prior to the adoption of diesel. I always say my subs are at their most dangerous in the shop, not in the water. This could be a situation where the drained gas engine is not dangerous underwater but is dangerous during surface transit. And frankly storing the gas outboard sounds like a bit of a challenge in itself.? I applaud original solutions, but this isn't one that sounds like a good idea, at least to me. ? Gamma seems to have pretty good range on batteries, and I recall you're planning on the trailerable landing craft. Would the landing craft not obviate the need for an onboard ICE? ? ? Cheers, Alec ? On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 7:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is a bit skinny. ? I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has been converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard.? I converted it many years ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine is stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil cooler.? The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is it? ? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it dives.? An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air through a duct to the outside of the sub.? I know as a rule it is considered a bad idea but with careful ? installation it could be a very nice drive system.? This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel engine.? The Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to escape.? The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel. ? I was bragging to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with two pulls in the spring.? He said it must need a tune up LOL ?it should start in one pull. ? Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 21 20:40:03 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 17:40:03 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Message-ID: <20170821174003.F1B116EE@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 21 21:13:46 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 13:13:46 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <3c117e73-5f39-4fa6-bf8e-5ec715aa76cb@email.android.com> References: <398298995.883196.1502632195531.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <398298995.883196.1502632195531@mail.yahoo.com> <1502640984921.2521318.6de5d1b8302ae6bb756f548c808eed45df1ee831@spica.telekom.de> <1622683698.1029574.1502649486538@mail.yahoo.com> <3ce5051a-92f8-5161-65d9-84f0d65616d2@ohiohills.com> <312451248.1589324.1502742550490@mail.yahoo.com> <6902f2af-771b-a63d-f214-b936b8dd77e5@ohiohills.com> <299519125.3294374.1502887663808@mail.yahoo.com> <561363362.2050009.1503319078930@mail.yahoo.com> <8ab86341-fc39-4f3e-963a-536ea2ca679b@email.android.com> <3c117e73-5f39-4fa6-bf8e-5ec715aa76cb@email.android.com> Message-ID: <2DB0181B-2FB4-49CD-8EA2-52867991A7D7@yahoo.com> Sean, I did say " a plausible explaination" in reference to the rape, murder theory. They initially set out from Copenhagen for a couple of hours. This would mean that they would always be within 5 miles of land! If you were on a boat 5 miles from land & knocked your head (as you did) & died as a result, wouldn't it be a little strange if the captain took you out to sea, disposed of your body ( without limbs or head), said he put you off on an Island alive, & then sank several hundred thousand dollars worth of boat on purpose. There would be thousands of instances where people died as a result of accident on boats, but no captain would have a reason to cover it up. If the death was the result of a non accidental reason such as a drug overdose or strangulation, or your incriminating dna was in & on her body; then you would have good reason to want to dispose of the body. And this is the only plausible conclusion. She was a good looking intelligent young Woman, & I bet every detective on the case would be thinking that this was probably the case. Cheers Alan Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 22/08/2017, at 9:36 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I have been following the story, and it is pretty clear that something is amiss, but rape and murder allegations are very severe, and should probably not be thrown around in the absence of conclusive information. It would seem that, despite the efforts of investigators so far, the only person who likely knows what happened is Peter. Hopefully he will come clean. > > Sean > > > >> On August 21, 2017 3:04:23 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Have you not been following this Sean? >> Authorities charged him with manslaughter & were holding >> him on suspicion of murder when he was still telling everyone >> he dropped her off on an Island & that his sub sank accidentally. >> As Jon points out he has already stuffed a lot of people around, including >> the girls family & friends, investigators, search people etc. by lying. >> And if his current story is true, he is still guilty of disposing of her body. >> The truth may never come out; so you may be waiting for a long time >> for that! >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 22/08/2017, at 8:20 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Such speculation helps no one. I trust that the law enforcement investigators will do their jobs, and that a more informative statement will be forthcoming. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>>> On August 21, 2017 2:00:14 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Jon, >>>> I guess that's a step toward the truth; it's a bit more plausible than >>>> his previous statement. However if someone had an accident on your >>>> submarine & you thought they were not breathing, then the first thing >>>> a normal person would do is radio emergency services. Instead he >>>> performed a private burial at sea. >>>> A more plausible explanation could be that he raped & murdered her & >>>> got rid of the body because of the dna evidence; then headed to Port to >>>> do a big clean up. When he was intercepted he disposed of his sub to >>>> cover up the rest of the evidence! >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 22/08/2017, at 12:37 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Latest news from Denmark is that Madsen has told authorities Kim Wall died onboard his submarine due to an "accident" and he buried her at sea. I wonder what kind of person it takes to make so many people walk through so much bullshit. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 21 23:44:04 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 15:44:04 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive In-Reply-To: <181864378.2378442.1503361005496@mail.yahoo.com> References: <33396700.8666.1503270138057@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <05f801d31a0e$5ffb85e0$1ff291a0$@gmail.com> <1244001254.1576578.1503273368221@mail.yahoo.com> <063301d31a1b$6e54b280$4afe1780$@gmail.com> <1713768071.1832843.1503314213778@mail.yahoo.com> <072901d31ad1$10164ba0$3042e2e0$@gmail.com> <181864378.2378442.1503361005496@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <07a401d31af8$e9c8aa10$bd59fe30$@gmail.com> Hank, No. Separate vessels with 2? pipe joining through ball, valve, actuator and non return. See our website catalogue. http://www.q-subs.com/products/valves/shuttle-valves/ ABS etc I believe, specify there should be a fire rated door between cabin & engine room. Send me your email for off line and I can send you a photo. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 22 August 2017 12:17 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Hugh, Are your motor compartments open to the sub hull? Hank On Monday, August 21, 2017, 4:59:13 PM MDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I?m a guy with a big nose so that is what it?s for. We make compressors and learned that too many instruments is a source for problems. As it is, I have too many instruments. Simplicity is best. However we have a CO monitor which also detects hydrogen so I think it might also do hydrocarbons. The biggest concern is exhaust fumes being drawn in through the snorkel from a following breeze when charging the batteries. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 11:17 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Hugh, That is a nice set up, and the fuel injection is ideal. Are you using a vapour sensor? Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 7:19:02 PM MDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, The engines are inside 24? diameter vessels rated for full depth Plus. Air intake is from the cabin so surface running the engines are drawing air in from snorkels into the cabin and then through non returns to the engine housing. That way surface running can have the hatch closed and fresh air is provided en route to the engines that way it keeps the cabin cool. Motors are using fuel injection. Not carburettors. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 11:56 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Hugh, I had two options in mind, well actually three. One was a bladder, the other a full pressure rated tank or a detachable tank that stores in the inflatable tender that I am now towing. The bladder would be very easy and I have an enclosed space for it already. I also would only need about 20 litres. Detaching would probably be the most simple. Inside the sub is not an option at all. You have a couple of high power gas engines in Q-sub ? They must be in a pressure compensated enclosure. I tried to find that information today to steal an idea or two ;-) You must also be dealing with potential vapours. Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 5:45:35 PM MDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, I am a believer of putting the fuel outside the vessel in the form of a bladder. 100 litres of diesel/petrol would weight about 83 and 75 kg resprctively so would be positive 17 or 25 kg flotation but if inside the vessel would be 83 kg negative and when empty would be 83 kg of unwanted flotation if diesel. The additional safety of having a bladder outside is the biggest consideration. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of irox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 11:02 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Hi Hank, one of the key dangers with gasoline vapor is that it's heavier than air, so it will pool inside the sub (this has not changed with advancements in ICE technology). Even with good ventilation, purging the pressure hull of gasoline vapor may be tricky. You could look at converting the engine to something which is lighter than air (hydrogen?), but this should under go a lot of research/experimentation to ensure it's safe. There has been a lot of discussion of using gas engines in sub in the past (bionic dolphin uses gas, but this is more enclosed jet skii than submarine), none of which seemed yield a safe approach to this. Could you cut open your hull to install the engine, then weld it up again? Good luck, Ian. -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Aug 20, 2017 3:41 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Alec, Yes it may be to scary, I will give it more thought. I need more range, and my boat will not be ready for the spring of 2018. It is bad enough I missed this season ;-( I need a working submarine with reliable range and batteries will not do it. The danger is gas vapour reaching an explosive level. That would mean a leak and no proper venting coupled with an ignition source. Both these risks can be managed. Diesel fuel in a hot enclosed environment is not as volatile but still not without risk. In all fairness, you can't compare early antique engines with a modern-day Honda. My options are limited with an 18 inch opening. Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 4:21:51 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sorry to be critical, but yes, from an historical perspective a gas engine would be a big no-no as gas powered subs were death traps prior to the adoption of diesel. I always say my subs are at their most dangerous in the shop, not in the water. This could be a situation where the drained gas engine is not dangerous underwater but is dangerous during surface transit. And frankly storing the gas outboard sounds like a bit of a challenge in itself. I applaud original solutions, but this isn't one that sounds like a good idea, at least to me. Gamma seems to have pretty good range on batteries, and I recall you're planning on the trailerable landing craft. Would the landing craft not obviate the need for an onboard ICE? Cheers, Alec On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 7:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is a bit skinny. I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has been converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard. I converted it many years ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine is stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil cooler. The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is it? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it dives. An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air through a duct to the outside of the sub. I know as a rule it is considered a bad idea but with careful installation it could be a very nice drive system. This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel engine. The Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to escape. The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel. I was bragging to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with two pulls in the spring. He said it must need a tune up LOL it should start in one pull. Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 22 03:10:55 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 15:10:55 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <532238235.142997.1503360053984@mail.yahoo.com> References: <532238235.142997.1503360053984.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <532238235.142997.1503360053984@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Limbs cam easily vanish early due to sea life, but total dismemberment does suggest foul play... Marc On 8/22/2017 8:00 AM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sounds like a helluva accident. > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 8/21/17, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Date: Monday, August 21, 2017, 6:30 PM > > > I > have to say that with the news Madsen's initial > explanation was a lie, disqualifies him from any sympathy in > my book. ?In latest developments, a woman's torso was > recovered at waters edge in Copenhagen. ?No head, arms, or > legs attached._______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 22 04:00:29 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 04:00:29 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: References: <532238235.142997.1503360053984.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <532238235.142997.1503360053984@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Whatever happened on that sub... what a shame. May peace soon come to all involved. ~ Douglas S. On 8/22/17, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Limbs cam easily vanish early due to sea life, but total dismemberment > does suggest foul play... > > Marc > > On 8/22/2017 8:00 AM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Sounds like a helluva accident. >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Mon, 8/21/17, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> >> Date: Monday, August 21, 2017, 6:30 PM >> >> >> I >> have to say that with the news Madsen's initial >> explanation was a lie, disqualifies him from any sympathy in >> my book. In latest developments, a woman's torso was >> recovered at waters edge in Copenhagen. No head, arms, or >> legs attached._______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > -- > Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog > Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog > Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 > Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc > Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 22 09:22:04 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 13:22:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive In-Reply-To: <1406613451.2169054.1503343503293@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414@mail.yahoo.com> <1438135149.2797729.1503329051407@mail.yahoo.com> <1406613451.2169054.1503343503293@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <38269730.3789582.1503408124691@mail.yahoo.com> Hello HankEthanol do not explode like gasoline. It will burn but do not cause a burst explosion like gasoline. It is safer and if there is an accident and it spill over the enviroment, you get some drunk fishes but nothing serious, after a hangover they will be fine.? As far as I know in some states in the US is possible also to destill your own ethanol for fuel, of course you must get the permit. Is a ideaBest wishesJuergen hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles schrieb am 14:31 Montag, 21.August 2017: Juergen,That is interesting, what makes Ethanol safer? ?does it have a lower flash point? ?No worries with the passengers drinking the fuel, I will post a sign that says" if you drink the fuel you have to swim home" ?;-)Hank On Monday, August 21, 2017, 9:24:42 AM MDT, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank,An idea is to convert the motor to ethanol, it looses 10% power, but ethanol is saver than gasoline. The greatest problem is to avoid that the passengers drink the fuel :-).Best wishesJuergen hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles schrieb am 6:52 Sonntag, 20.August 2017: Hi All,My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is a bit skinny. ? I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has been converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard. ?I converted it many years ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine is stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil cooler. ?The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is it? ? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it dives. ?An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air through a duct to the outside of the sub. ?I know as a rule it is considered a bad idea but with careful ? installation it could be a very nice drive system. ?This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel engine. ?The Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to escape. ?The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel. ? I was bragging to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with two pulls in the spring. ?He said it must need a tune up LOL ?it should start in one pull. ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 22 16:43:17 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (peaceroom via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 16:43:17 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 78 Message-ID: UC3 coverage today FoxNews. Sent from my Samsung device -------- Original message -------- From: via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/21/17 11:43 PM (GMT-05:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 78 Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: ?? 1. Re: engine drive (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) ?? 2. Re: UC3 Nautilus (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) ?? 3. Re: engine drive (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 17:40:03 -0700 From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Message-ID: <20170821174003.F1B116EE at m0117460.ppops.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 13:13:46 +1200 From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus Message-ID: <2DB0181B-2FB4-49CD-8EA2-52867991A7D7 at yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sean, I did say " a plausible explaination" in reference to the rape, murder theory. They initially set out from Copenhagen for a couple of hours. This would mean that they would always be within 5 miles of land! If you were on a boat 5 miles from land & knocked your head (as you did) & died as a result, wouldn't it be a little strange if the captain took you out to sea, disposed of your body ( without limbs or head), said he put you off on an Island alive, & then sank several hundred thousand dollars worth of boat on purpose. ?? There would be thousands of instances where people died as a result of accident on boats, but no captain would have a reason to cover it up. ?? If the death was the result of a non accidental reason such as a drug overdose or strangulation, or your incriminating dna was in & on her body; then you would have good reason to want to dispose of the body. And this is the only plausible conclusion. She was a good looking intelligent young Woman, & I bet every detective on the case would be thinking that this was probably the case. Cheers Alan Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 22/08/2017, at 9:36 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I have been following the story, and it is pretty clear that something is amiss, but rape and murder allegations are very severe, and should probably not be thrown around in the absence of conclusive information.? It would seem that, despite the efforts of investigators so far, the only person who likely knows what happened is Peter. Hopefully he will come clean. > > Sean > > > >> On August 21, 2017 3:04:23 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Have you not been following this Sean? >> Authorities charged him with manslaughter & were holding >> him on suspicion of murder when he was still telling everyone >> he dropped her off on an Island & that his sub sank accidentally. >> As Jon points out he has already stuffed a lot of people around, including >> the girls family & friends, investigators, search people etc. by lying. >> And if his current story is true, he is still guilty of disposing of her body. >> The truth may never come out; so you may be waiting for a long time >> for that! >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 22/08/2017, at 8:20 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Such speculation helps no one. I trust that? the law enforcement investigators will do their jobs, and that a more informative statement will be forthcoming. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>>> On August 21, 2017 2:00:14 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Jon, >>>> I guess that's a step toward the truth; it's a bit more plausible than >>>> his previous statement. However if someone had an accident on your >>>> submarine & you thought they were not breathing, then the first thing >>>> a normal person would do is radio emergency services. Instead he >>>> performed a private burial at sea. >>>> A more plausible explanation could be that he raped & murdered her & >>>> got rid of the body because of the dna evidence; then headed to Port to >>>> do a big clean up. When he was intercepted he disposed of his sub to >>>> cover up the rest of the evidence! >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 22/08/2017, at 12:37 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Latest news from Denmark is that Madsen has told authorities Kim Wall died onboard his submarine due to an "accident" and he buried her at sea.? I wonder what kind of person it takes to make so many people walk through so much bullshit. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 15:44:04 +1200 From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Message-ID: <07a401d31af8$e9c8aa10$bd59fe30$@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hank, No. Separate vessels with 2? pipe joining through ball, valve, actuator and non return. See our website catalogue. http://www.q-subs.com/products/valves/shuttle-valves/ ABS etc I believe, specify there should be a fire rated door between cabin & engine room. Send me your email for off line and I can send you a photo.? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 22 August 2017 12:17 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Hugh, Are your motor compartments open to the sub hull?? Hank On Monday, August 21, 2017, 4:59:13 PM MDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I?m a guy with a big nose so that is what it?s for.? We make compressors and learned that too many instruments is a source for problems.? As it is, I have too many instruments.? Simplicity is best. However we have a CO monitor which also detects hydrogen so I think it might also do hydrocarbons. The biggest concern is exhaust fumes being drawn in through the snorkel from a following breeze when charging the batteries.? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 11:17 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Hugh, That is a nice set up, and the fuel injection is ideal.? Are you using a vapour sensor?? Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 7:19:02 PM MDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, The engines are inside 24? diameter vessels rated for full depth Plus.? Air intake is from the cabin so surface running the engines are drawing air in from snorkels into the cabin and then through non returns to the engine housing.? That way surface running can have the hatch closed and fresh air is provided en route to the engines that way it keeps the cabin cool.? Motors are using fuel injection. Not carburettors.?? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 11:56 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Hugh, I had two options in mind, well actually three.? One was a bladder, the other a full pressure rated tank or a detachable tank that stores in the inflatable tender that I am now towing.?? The bladder would be very easy and I have an enclosed space for it already.? I also would only need about 20 litres. Detaching would probably be the most simple.? Inside the sub is not an option at all. You have a couple of high power gas engines in Q-sub ?? They must be in a pressure compensated enclosure.? I tried to find that information today to steal an idea or two ;-)?? You must also be dealing with potential vapours. Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 5:45:35 PM MDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, I am a believer of putting the fuel outside the vessel in the form of a bladder.? 100 litres of diesel/petrol would weight about 83 and 75 kg resprctively so would be positive 17 or 25 kg flotation but if inside the vessel would be 83 kg negative and when empty would be 83 kg of unwanted flotation if diesel.? The additional safety of having a bladder outside is the biggest consideration. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of irox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 11:02 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Hi Hank, one of the key dangers with gasoline vapor is that it's heavier than air, so it will pool inside the sub (this has not changed with advancements in ICE technology).?? Even with good ventilation, purging the pressure hull of gasoline vapor may be tricky. You could look at converting the engine to something which is lighter than air (hydrogen?), but this should under go a lot of research/experimentation to ensure it's safe. There has been a lot of discussion of using gas engines in sub in the past (bionic dolphin uses gas, but this is more enclosed jet skii than submarine), none of which seemed yield a safe approach to this. Could you cut open your hull to install the engine, then weld it up again? Good luck, ? Ian. -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Aug 20, 2017 3:41 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Alec, Yes it may be to scary, I will give it more thought.? I need more range, and my boat will not be ready for the spring of 2018.? It is bad enough I missed this season ;-(? I need a working submarine with reliable range and batteries will not do it.??? The danger is gas vapour reaching an explosive level.? That would mean a leak and no proper venting coupled with an ignition source.? Both these risks can be managed.? Diesel fuel in a hot enclosed environment is not as volatile but still not without risk.? In all fairness, you can't compare early antique engines with a modern-day Honda.? My options are limited with an 18 inch opening.? Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 4:21:51 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sorry to be critical, but yes, from an historical perspective a gas engine would be a big no-no as gas powered subs were death traps prior to the adoption of diesel. I always say my subs are at their most dangerous in the shop, not in the water. This could be a situation where the drained gas engine is not dangerous underwater but is dangerous during surface transit. And frankly storing the gas outboard sounds like a bit of a challenge in itself.? I applaud original solutions, but this isn't one that sounds like a good idea, at least to me. Gamma seems to have pretty good range on batteries, and I recall you're planning on the trailerable landing craft. Would the landing craft not obviate the need for an onboard ICE? Cheers, Alec On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 7:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is a bit skinny.?? I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has been converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard.? I converted it many years ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine is stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil cooler.? The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is it??? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it dives.? An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air through a duct to the outside of the sub.? I know as a rule it is considered a bad idea but with careful?? installation it could be a very nice drive system.? This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel engine.? The Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to escape.? The Honda 4 stroke is! ? as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel.?? I was bragging to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with two pulls in the spring.? He said it must need a tune up LOL? it should start in one pull.? Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 78 ***************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 22 16:45:37 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (peaceroom via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 16:45:37 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 78 Message-ID: Too many story changes given to police. At that distance from mainland would nit authorize sub owner to bury at sea. Sent from my Samsung device -------- Original message -------- From: via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/21/17 11:43 PM (GMT-05:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 78 Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: ?? 1. Re: engine drive (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) ?? 2. Re: UC3 Nautilus (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) ?? 3. Re: engine drive (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 17:40:03 -0700 From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Message-ID: <20170821174003.F1B116EE at m0117460.ppops.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 13:13:46 +1200 From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus Message-ID: <2DB0181B-2FB4-49CD-8EA2-52867991A7D7 at yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sean, I did say " a plausible explaination" in reference to the rape, murder theory. They initially set out from Copenhagen for a couple of hours. This would mean that they would always be within 5 miles of land! If you were on a boat 5 miles from land & knocked your head (as you did) & died as a result, wouldn't it be a little strange if the captain took you out to sea, disposed of your body ( without limbs or head), said he put you off on an Island alive, & then sank several hundred thousand dollars worth of boat on purpose. ?? There would be thousands of instances where people died as a result of accident on boats, but no captain would have a reason to cover it up. ?? If the death was the result of a non accidental reason such as a drug overdose or strangulation, or your incriminating dna was in & on her body; then you would have good reason to want to dispose of the body. And this is the only plausible conclusion. She was a good looking intelligent young Woman, & I bet every detective on the case would be thinking that this was probably the case. Cheers Alan Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 22/08/2017, at 9:36 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I have been following the story, and it is pretty clear that something is amiss, but rape and murder allegations are very severe, and should probably not be thrown around in the absence of conclusive information.? It would seem that, despite the efforts of investigators so far, the only person who likely knows what happened is Peter. Hopefully he will come clean. > > Sean > > > >> On August 21, 2017 3:04:23 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Have you not been following this Sean? >> Authorities charged him with manslaughter & were holding >> him on suspicion of murder when he was still telling everyone >> he dropped her off on an Island & that his sub sank accidentally. >> As Jon points out he has already stuffed a lot of people around, including >> the girls family & friends, investigators, search people etc. by lying. >> And if his current story is true, he is still guilty of disposing of her body. >> The truth may never come out; so you may be waiting for a long time >> for that! >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 22/08/2017, at 8:20 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Such speculation helps no one. I trust that? the law enforcement investigators will do their jobs, and that a more informative statement will be forthcoming. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>>> On August 21, 2017 2:00:14 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Jon, >>>> I guess that's a step toward the truth; it's a bit more plausible than >>>> his previous statement. However if someone had an accident on your >>>> submarine & you thought they were not breathing, then the first thing >>>> a normal person would do is radio emergency services. Instead he >>>> performed a private burial at sea. >>>> A more plausible explanation could be that he raped & murdered her & >>>> got rid of the body because of the dna evidence; then headed to Port to >>>> do a big clean up. When he was intercepted he disposed of his sub to >>>> cover up the rest of the evidence! >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 22/08/2017, at 12:37 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Latest news from Denmark is that Madsen has told authorities Kim Wall died onboard his submarine due to an "accident" and he buried her at sea.? I wonder what kind of person it takes to make so many people walk through so much bullshit. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 15:44:04 +1200 From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Message-ID: <07a401d31af8$e9c8aa10$bd59fe30$@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hank, No. Separate vessels with 2? pipe joining through ball, valve, actuator and non return. See our website catalogue. http://www.q-subs.com/products/valves/shuttle-valves/ ABS etc I believe, specify there should be a fire rated door between cabin & engine room. Send me your email for off line and I can send you a photo.? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 22 August 2017 12:17 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Hugh, Are your motor compartments open to the sub hull?? Hank On Monday, August 21, 2017, 4:59:13 PM MDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I?m a guy with a big nose so that is what it?s for.? We make compressors and learned that too many instruments is a source for problems.? As it is, I have too many instruments.? Simplicity is best. However we have a CO monitor which also detects hydrogen so I think it might also do hydrocarbons. The biggest concern is exhaust fumes being drawn in through the snorkel from a following breeze when charging the batteries.? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 11:17 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Hugh, That is a nice set up, and the fuel injection is ideal.? Are you using a vapour sensor?? Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 7:19:02 PM MDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, The engines are inside 24? diameter vessels rated for full depth Plus.? Air intake is from the cabin so surface running the engines are drawing air in from snorkels into the cabin and then through non returns to the engine housing.? That way surface running can have the hatch closed and fresh air is provided en route to the engines that way it keeps the cabin cool.? Motors are using fuel injection. Not carburettors.?? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 11:56 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Hugh, I had two options in mind, well actually three.? One was a bladder, the other a full pressure rated tank or a detachable tank that stores in the inflatable tender that I am now towing.?? The bladder would be very easy and I have an enclosed space for it already.? I also would only need about 20 litres. Detaching would probably be the most simple.? Inside the sub is not an option at all. You have a couple of high power gas engines in Q-sub ?? They must be in a pressure compensated enclosure.? I tried to find that information today to steal an idea or two ;-)?? You must also be dealing with potential vapours. Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 5:45:35 PM MDT, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, I am a believer of putting the fuel outside the vessel in the form of a bladder.? 100 litres of diesel/petrol would weight about 83 and 75 kg resprctively so would be positive 17 or 25 kg flotation but if inside the vessel would be 83 kg negative and when empty would be 83 kg of unwanted flotation if diesel.? The additional safety of having a bladder outside is the biggest consideration. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of irox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 11:02 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Hi Hank, one of the key dangers with gasoline vapor is that it's heavier than air, so it will pool inside the sub (this has not changed with advancements in ICE technology).?? Even with good ventilation, purging the pressure hull of gasoline vapor may be tricky. You could look at converting the engine to something which is lighter than air (hydrogen?), but this should under go a lot of research/experimentation to ensure it's safe. There has been a lot of discussion of using gas engines in sub in the past (bionic dolphin uses gas, but this is more enclosed jet skii than submarine), none of which seemed yield a safe approach to this. Could you cut open your hull to install the engine, then weld it up again? Good luck, ? Ian. -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Aug 20, 2017 3:41 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Alec, Yes it may be to scary, I will give it more thought.? I need more range, and my boat will not be ready for the spring of 2018.? It is bad enough I missed this season ;-(? I need a working submarine with reliable range and batteries will not do it.??? The danger is gas vapour reaching an explosive level.? That would mean a leak and no proper venting coupled with an ignition source.? Both these risks can be managed.? Diesel fuel in a hot enclosed environment is not as volatile but still not without risk.? In all fairness, you can't compare early antique engines with a modern-day Honda.? My options are limited with an 18 inch opening.? Hank On Sunday, August 20, 2017, 4:21:51 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sorry to be critical, but yes, from an historical perspective a gas engine would be a big no-no as gas powered subs were death traps prior to the adoption of diesel. I always say my subs are at their most dangerous in the shop, not in the water. This could be a situation where the drained gas engine is not dangerous underwater but is dangerous during surface transit. And frankly storing the gas outboard sounds like a bit of a challenge in itself.? I applaud original solutions, but this isn't one that sounds like a good idea, at least to me. Gamma seems to have pretty good range on batteries, and I recall you're planning on the trailerable landing craft. Would the landing craft not obviate the need for an onboard ICE? Cheers, Alec On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 7:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is a bit skinny.?? I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has been converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard.? I converted it many years ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine is stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil cooler.? The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is it??? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it dives.? An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air through a duct to the outside of the sub.? I know as a rule it is considered a bad idea but with careful?? installation it could be a very nice drive system.? This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel engine.? The Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to escape.? The Honda 4 stroke is! ? as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel.?? I was bragging to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with two pulls in the spring.? He said it must need a tune up LOL? it should start in one pull.? Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 78 ***************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 22 17:00:15 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 21:00:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive In-Reply-To: <38269730.3789582.1503408124691@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414@mail.yahoo.com> <1438135149.2797729.1503329051407@mail.yahoo.com> <1406613451.2169054.1503343503293@mail.yahoo.com> <38269730.3789582.1503408124691@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1346761487.38267.1503435615762@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,Well I had an idea that I could put a small diesel engine in my escape pod and it would be a quick easy modification. ?Turns out a diesel that will fit is not readily available, so I looked at my ?gas engine. ?That fits but is full of hazards that will take to much time to address. ?So I give up! ?Now onto the new idea. ?I thought about putting a 36V generator in my inflatable since I am towing it anyways. ?I can just tie the boat to the side of Gamma and run a power line over to the sub to power a drive motor. ?That will work but I have improved on that idea. ?The boat will have a Johnson 9.5 hp outboard on it, so why not machine a hub onto the outboard motor flywheel and drive a 36V alternator( generator) ?directly, then ?the same motor can do two jobs. ?It has to be direct drive to the alternator because the crank bearing in the motor can not take a side load for a pulley and belt. ?This could work!Hank. ? On Tuesday, August 22, 2017, 9:49:18 AM MDT, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hello HankEthanol do not explode like gasoline. It will burn but do not cause a burst explosion like gasoline. It is safer and if there is an accident and it spill over the enviroment, you get some drunk fishes but nothing serious, after a hangover they will be fine.? As far as I know in some states in the US is possible also to destill your own ethanol for fuel, of course you must get the permit. Is a ideaBest wishesJuergen hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles schrieb am 14:31 Montag, 21.August 2017: Juergen,That is interesting, what makes Ethanol safer? ?does it have a lower flash point? ?No worries with the passengers drinking the fuel, I will post a sign that says" if you drink the fuel you have to swim home" ?;-)Hank On Monday, August 21, 2017, 9:24:42 AM MDT, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank,An idea is to convert the motor to ethanol, it looses 10% power, but ethanol is saver than gasoline. The greatest problem is to avoid that the passengers drink the fuel :-).Best wishesJuergen hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles schrieb am 6:52 Sonntag, 20.August 2017: Hi All,My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is a bit skinny. ? I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has been converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard. ?I converted it many years ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine is stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil cooler. ?The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is it? ? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it dives. ?An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air through a duct to the outside of the sub. ?I know as a rule it is considered a bad idea but with careful ? installation it could be a very nice drive system. ?This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel engine. ?The Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to escape. ?The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel. ? I was bragging to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with two pulls in the spring. ?He said it must need a tune up LOL ?it should start in one pull. ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 22 17:47:07 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 09:47:07 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive In-Reply-To: <1346761487.38267.1503435615762@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414@mail.yahoo.com> <1438135149.2797729.1503329051407@mail.yahoo.com> <1406613451.2169054.1503343503293@mail.yahoo.com> <38269730.3789582.1503408124691@mail.yahoo.com> <1346761487.38267.1503435615762@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, you would have to turn off & on the motor in the inflatable & detach the power cord which may be more difficult than just towing with the inflatable & boarding the sub. I know you disliked towing because of the unpredictable weather, but have you been in the bad weather with the inflatable! They can take anything! If you pulled the nose of the inflatable in to the submarine with a rope, you should be able to board in foul weather. ( my theory anyway ) Is the outboard going to be an over-kill as you will be limited by your thrusters as to how much power you required! What about buying more batteries to extend the range! Pack them in if it's a long journey. They may come in handy driving a heater or air con on shorter dives. Other than that maybe make a pod with a diesel engine in it that can replace your escape pod! Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 23/08/2017, at 9:00 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > Well I had an idea that I could put a small diesel engine in my escape pod and it would be a quick easy modification. Turns out a diesel that will fit is not readily available, so I looked at my gas engine. That fits but is full of hazards that will take to much time to address. So I give up! > Now onto the new idea. I thought about putting a 36V generator in my inflatable since I am towing it anyways. I can just tie the boat to the side of Gamma and run a power line over to the sub to power a drive motor. That will work but I have improved on that idea. The boat will have a Johnson 9.5 hp outboard on it, so why not machine a hub onto the outboard motor flywheel and drive a 36V alternator( generator) directly, then the same motor can do two jobs. It has to be direct drive to the alternator because the crank bearing in the motor can not take a side load for a pulley and belt. > This could work! > Hank > . > > > On Tuesday, August 22, 2017, 9:49:18 AM MDT, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hello Hank > Ethanol do not explode like gasoline. It will burn but do not cause a burst explosion like gasoline. It is safer and if there is an accident and it spill over the enviroment, you get some drunk fishes but nothing serious, after a hangover they will be fine. > As far as I know in some states in the US is possible also to destill your own ethanol for fuel, of course you must get the permit. > Is a idea > Best wishes > Juergen > > > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles schrieb am 14:31 Montag, 21.August 2017: > > > Juergen, > That is interesting, what makes Ethanol safer? does it have a lower flash point? No worries with the passengers drinking the fuel, I will post a sign that says" if you drink the fuel you have to swim home" ;-) > Hank > > > On Monday, August 21, 2017, 9:24:42 AM MDT, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > An idea is to convert the motor to ethanol, it looses 10% power, but ethanol is saver than gasoline. The greatest problem is to avoid that the passengers drink the fuel :-). > Best wishes > Juergen > > > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles schrieb am 6:52 Sonntag, 20.August 2017: > > > Hi All, > My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is a bit skinny. I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has been converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard. I converted it many years ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine is stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil cooler. The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is it? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it dives. An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air through a duct to the outside of the sub. I know as a rule it is considered a bad idea but with careful installation it could be a very nice drive system. This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel engine. The Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to escape. The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel. I was bragging to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with two pulls in the spring. He said it must need a tune up LOL it should start in one pull. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 22 18:20:30 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 22:20:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive In-Reply-To: References: <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414@mail.yahoo.com> <1438135149.2797729.1503329051407@mail.yahoo.com> <1406613451.2169054.1503343503293@mail.yahoo.com> <38269730.3789582.1503408124691@mail.yahoo.com> <1346761487.38267.1503435615762@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1770425490.135705.1503440430044@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Have you towed a sub with a small boat? ?It sucks real bad. ?I hate it !!! ;-) ? ?Packing the sub with batteries is an option up to 260 lbs. ?That is not cheap. ?My batteries are almost 600 dollars each here in Canada. ?Lots to think about I guess.Hank On Tuesday, August 22, 2017, 3:47:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,you would have to turn off & on the motor in the inflatable &detach the power cord which may be more difficult than justtowing with the inflatable & boarding the sub.I know you disliked towing because of the unpredictableweather, but have you been in the bad weather with the?inflatable! They can take anything! If you pulled the nose ofthe inflatable in to the submarine with a rope, you should beable to board in foul weather. ( my theory anyway )Is the outboard going to be an over-kill as you will be limited?by your thrusters as to how much power you required!? ?What about buying more batteries to extend the range!Pack them in if it's a long journey. They may come in handydriving a heater or air con on shorter dives.?Other than that maybe make a pod with a diesel engine in itthat can replace your escape pod!Cheers Alan? Sent from my iPad On 23/08/2017, at 9:00 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Well I had an idea that I could put a small diesel engine in my escape pod and it would be a quick easy modification. ?Turns out a diesel that will fit is not readily available, so I looked at my ?gas engine. ?That fits but is full of hazards that will take to much time to address. ?So I give up! ?Now onto the new idea. ?I thought about putting a 36V generator in my inflatable since I am towing it anyways. ?I can just tie the boat to the side of Gamma and run a power line over to the sub to power a drive motor. ?That will work but I have improved on that idea. ?The boat will have a Johnson 9.5 hp outboard on it, so why not machine a hub onto the outboard motor flywheel and drive a 36V alternator( generator) ?directly, then ?the same motor can do two jobs. ?It has to be direct drive to the alternator because the crank bearing in the motor can not take a side load for a pulley and belt. ?This could work!Hank. ? On Tuesday, August 22, 2017, 9:49:18 AM MDT, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hello HankEthanol do not explode like gasoline. It will burn but do not cause a burst explosion like gasoline. It is safer and if there is an accident and it spill over the enviroment, you get some drunk fishes but nothing serious, after a hangover they will be fine.? As far as I know in some states in the US is possible also to destill your own ethanol for fuel, of course you must get the permit. Is a ideaBest wishesJuergen hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles schrieb am 14:31 Montag, 21.August 2017: Juergen,That is interesting, what makes Ethanol safer? ?does it have a lower flash point? ?No worries with the passengers drinking the fuel, I will post a sign that says" if you drink the fuel you have to swim home" ?;-)Hank On Monday, August 21, 2017, 9:24:42 AM MDT, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank,An idea is to convert the motor to ethanol, it looses 10% power, but ethanol is saver than gasoline. The greatest problem is to avoid that the passengers drink the fuel :-).Best wishesJuergen hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles schrieb am 6:52 Sonntag, 20.August 2017: Hi All,My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is a bit skinny. ? I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has been converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard. ?I converted it many years ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine is stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil cooler. ?The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is it? ? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it dives. ?An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air through a duct to the outside of the sub. ?I know as a rule it is considered a bad idea but with careful ? installation it could be a very nice drive system. ?This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel engine. ?The Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to escape. ?The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel. ? I was bragging to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with two pulls in the spring. ?He said it must need a tune up LOL ?it should start in one pull. ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 23 03:58:04 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 08:58:04 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive In-Reply-To: <1770425490.135705.1503440430044@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414@mail.yahoo.com> <1438135149.2797729.1503329051407@mail.yahoo.com> <1406613451.2169054.1503343503293@mail.yahoo.com> <38269730.3789582.1503408124691@mail.yahoo.com> <1346761487.38267.1503435615762@mail.yahoo.com> <1770425490.135705.1503440430044@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank. Just an idea but I had thought of some sort of pontoon thing, a bit like a catermaran that's you drive the sub into. Pontoon is then firmly attached to the sub so it becomes one surface boat. Pontoon can have a decent outboard, fuel, stores, BBQ etc. Drive to the dive site. Detach, dive and re attach when done. Thoughts? James On Tuesday, 22 August 2017, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alan, > Have you towed a sub with a small boat? It sucks real bad. I hate it !!! > ;-) Packing the sub with batteries is an option up to 260 lbs. That is > not cheap. My batteries are almost 600 dollars each here in Canada. Lots > to think about I guess. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, August 22, 2017, 3:47:29 PM MDT, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hank, > you would have to turn off & on the motor in the inflatable & > detach the power cord which may be more difficult than just > towing with the inflatable & boarding the sub. > I know you disliked towing because of the unpredictable > weather, but have you been in the bad weather with the > inflatable! They can take anything! If you pulled the nose of > the inflatable in to the submarine with a rope, you should be > able to board in foul weather. ( my theory anyway ) > Is the outboard going to be an over-kill as you will be limited > by your thrusters as to how much power you required! > What about buying more batteries to extend the range! > Pack them in if it's a long journey. They may come in handy > driving a heater or air con on shorter dives. > Other than that maybe make a pod with a diesel engine in it > that can replace your escape pod! > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 23/08/2017, at 9:00 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > Hi All, > Well I had an idea that I could put a small diesel engine in my escape pod > and it would be a quick easy modification. Turns out a diesel that will > fit is not readily available, so I looked at my gas engine. That fits but > is full of hazards that will take to much time to address. So I give up! > Now onto the new idea. I thought about putting a 36V generator in my > inflatable since I am towing it anyways. I can just tie the boat to the > side of Gamma and run a power line over to the sub to power a drive motor. > That will work but I have improved on that idea. The boat will have a > Johnson 9.5 hp outboard on it, so why not machine a hub onto the outboard > motor flywheel and drive a 36V alternator( generator) directly, then the > same motor can do two jobs. It has to be direct drive to the alternator > because the crank bearing in the motor can not take a side load for a > pulley and belt. > This could work! > Hank > . > > > On Tuesday, August 22, 2017, 9:49:18 AM MDT, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hello Hank > Ethanol do not explode like gasoline. It will burn but do not cause a > burst explosion like gasoline. It is safer and if there is an accident and > it spill over the enviroment, you get some drunk fishes but nothing > serious, after a hangover they will be fine. > As far as I know in some states in the US is possible also to destill your > own ethanol for fuel, of course you must get the permit. > Is a idea > Best wishes > Juergen > > > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > schrieb am 14:31 Montag, 21.August 2017: > > > Juergen, > That is interesting, what makes Ethanol safer? does it have a lower flash > point? No worries with the passengers drinking the fuel, I will post a > sign that says" if you drink the fuel you have to swim home" ;-) > Hank > > > On Monday, August 21, 2017, 9:24:42 AM MDT, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > An idea is to convert the motor to ethanol, it looses 10% power, but > ethanol is saver than gasoline. The greatest problem is to avoid that the > passengers drink the fuel :-). > Best wishes > Juergen > > > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > schrieb am 6:52 Sonntag, 20.August 2017: > > > Hi All, > My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is a bit > skinny. I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has been > converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard. I converted it many years ago > to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine is > stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil > cooler. The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is > it? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of > fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it > dives. An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air > through a duct to the outside of the sub. I know as a rule it is > considered a bad idea but with careful installation it could be a very > nice drive system. This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel > engine. The Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I > need to escape. The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel. > I was bragging to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with > two pulls in the spring. He said it must need a tune up LOL it should > start in one pull. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 23 06:33:42 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 10:33:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive In-Reply-To: References: <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414@mail.yahoo.com> <1438135149.2797729.1503329051407@mail.yahoo.com> <1406613451.2169054.1503343503293@mail.yahoo.com> <38269730.3789582.1503408124691@mail.yahoo.com> <1346761487.38267.1503435615762@mail.yahoo.com> <1770425490.135705.1503440430044@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1702075182.430221.1503484422181@mail.yahoo.com> Hi JamesI would be worried about the boat heaving in waves while the sub is relatively stable and trying to marry the two together. ?Lots of pinched fingers in bad weather. ?I suppose if the weather is bad and it is to difficult to get the sub inside the pontoons, you could simply tow it until it is safe to capture.It seems the last consideration in designing a sub is how well it will tow. ?I think a semi submersible ?support boat is the answer, at least that is what I am working toward.Hank On Wednesday, August 23, 2017, 1:58:25 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank.? Just an idea but I had thought of some sort of pontoon thing, a bit like a catermaran that's you drive the sub into.? Pontoon is then firmly attached to the sub so it becomes one surface boat.? Pontoon can have a decent outboard, fuel, stores, BBQ etc.? Drive to the dive site. Detach, dive and re attach when done.? Thoughts?James On Tuesday, 22 August 2017, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Have you towed a sub with a small boat?? It sucks real bad.? I hate it !!! ;-) ? ?Packing the sub with batteries is an option up to 260 lbs.? That is not cheap.? My batteries are almost 600 dollars each here in Canada.? Lots to think about I guess.Hank On Tuesday, August 22, 2017, 3:47:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,you would have to turn off & on the motor in the inflatable &detach the power cord which may be more difficult than justtowing with the inflatable & boarding the sub.I know you disliked towing because of the unpredictableweather, but have you been in the bad weather with the?inflatable! They can take anything! If you pulled the nose ofthe inflatable in to the submarine with a rope, you should beable to board in foul weather. ( my theory anyway )Is the outboard going to be an over-kill as you will be limited?by your thrusters as to how much power you required!? ?What about buying more batteries to extend the range!Pack them in if it's a long journey. They may come in handydriving a heater or air con on shorter dives.?Other than that maybe make a pod with a diesel engine in itthat can replace your escape pod!Cheers Alan? Sent from my iPad On 23/08/2017, at 9:00 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Well I had an idea that I could put a small diesel engine in my escape pod and it would be a quick easy modification.? Turns out a diesel that will fit is not readily available, so I looked at my ?gas engine.? That fits but is full of hazards that will take to much time to address.? So I give up! ?Now onto the new idea.? I thought about putting a 36V generator in my inflatable since I am towing it anyways.? I can just tie the boat to the side of Gamma and run a power line over to the sub to power a drive motor.? That will work but I have improved on that idea.? The boat will have a Johnson 9.5 hp outboard on it, so why not machine a hub onto the outboard motor flywheel and drive a 36V alternator( generator) ?directly, then ?the same motor can do two jobs.? It has to be direct drive to the alternator because the crank bearing in the motor can not take a side load for a pulley and belt. ?This could work!Hank. ? On Tuesday, August 22, 2017, 9:49:18 AM MDT, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hello HankEthanol do not explode like gasoline. It will burn but do not cause a burst explosion like gasoline. It is safer and if there is an accident and it spill over the enviroment, you get some drunk fishes but nothing serious, after a hangover they will be fine.? As far as I know in some states in the US is possible also to destill your own ethanol for fuel, of course you must get the permit. Is a ideaBest wishesJuergen hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles schrieb am 14:31 Montag, 21.August 2017: Juergen,That is interesting, what makes Ethanol safer? ?does it have a lower flash point?? No worries with the passengers drinking the fuel, I will post a sign that says" if you drink the fuel you have to swim home" ?;-)Hank On Monday, August 21, 2017, 9:24:42 AM MDT, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank,An idea is to convert the motor to ethanol, it looses 10% power, but ethanol is saver than gasoline. The greatest problem is to avoid that the passengers drink the fuel :-).Best wishesJuergen hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles schrieb am 6:52 Sonntag, 20.August 2017: Hi All,My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is a bit skinny. ? I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has been converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard.? I converted it many years ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine is stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil cooler.? The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is it? ? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it dives.? An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air through a duct to the outside of the sub.? I know as a rule it is considered a bad idea but with careful ? installation it could be a very nice drive system.? This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel engine.? The Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to escape.? The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel. ? I was bragging to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with two pulls in the spring.? He said it must need a tune up LOL ?it should start in one pull. ?Hank______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 23 07:22:21 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 12:22:21 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive In-Reply-To: <1702075182.430221.1503484422181@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414@mail.yahoo.com> <1438135149.2797729.1503329051407@mail.yahoo.com> <1406613451.2169054.1503343503293@mail.yahoo.com> <38269730.3789582.1503408124691@mail.yahoo.com> <1346761487.38267.1503435615762@mail.yahoo.com> <1770425490.135705.1503440430044@mail.yahoo.com> <1702075182.430221.1503484422181@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: yes, your probably right. the idea would be to have some sort of rope mooring system which would pull the sub into the pontoons and then be able to lock them solid so the whole thing becomes one. But its only an idea. Im still going for the diesel inboard I think. Hoping to start in the winter. On 23/08/2017, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi JamesI would be worried about the boat heaving in waves while the sub is > relatively stable and trying to marry the two together. Lots of pinched > fingers in bad weather. I suppose if the weather is bad and it is to > difficult to get the sub inside the pontoons, you could simply tow it until > it is safe to capture.It seems the last consideration in designing a sub is > how well it will tow. I think a semi submersible support boat is the > answer, at least that is what I am working toward.Hank > > On Wednesday, August 23, 2017, 1:58:25 AM MDT, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank. Just an idea but I had thought of some sort of pontoon thing, a bit > like a catermaran that's you drive the sub into. Pontoon is then firmly > attached to the sub so it becomes one surface boat. Pontoon can have a > decent outboard, fuel, stores, BBQ etc. Drive to the dive site. Detach, > dive and re attach when done. Thoughts?James > > On Tuesday, 22 August 2017, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Alan,Have you towed a sub with a small boat? It sucks real bad. I hate it > !!! ;-) Packing the sub with batteries is an option up to 260 lbs. That > is not cheap. My batteries are almost 600 dollars each here in Canada. > Lots to think about I guess.Hank > > On Tuesday, August 22, 2017, 3:47:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Hank,you would have to turn off & on the motor in the inflatable &detach the > power cord which may be more difficult than justtowing with the inflatable & > boarding the sub.I know you disliked towing because of the > unpredictableweather, but have you been in the bad weather with > the inflatable! They can take anything! If you pulled the nose ofthe > inflatable in to the submarine with a rope, you should beable to board in > foul weather. ( my theory anyway )Is the outboard going to be an over-kill > as you will be limited by your thrusters as to how much power you required! > What about buying more batteries to extend the range!Pack them in if it's a > long journey. They may come in handydriving a heater or air con on shorter > dives. Other than that maybe make a pod with a diesel engine in itthat can > replace your escape pod!Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > On 23/08/2017, at 9:00 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hi All,Well I had an idea that I could put a small diesel engine in my > escape pod and it would be a quick easy modification. Turns out a diesel > that will fit is not readily available, so I looked at my gas engine. That > fits but is full of hazards that will take to much time to address. So I > give up! Now onto the new idea. I thought about putting a 36V generator in > my inflatable since I am towing it anyways. I can just tie the boat to the > side of Gamma and run a power line over to the sub to power a drive motor. > That will work but I have improved on that idea. The boat will have a > Johnson 9.5 hp outboard on it, so why not machine a hub onto the outboard > motor flywheel and drive a 36V alternator( generator) directly, then the > same motor can do two jobs. It has to be direct drive to the alternator > because the crank bearing in the motor can not take a side load for a pulley > and belt. This could work!Hank. > > On Tuesday, August 22, 2017, 9:49:18 AM MDT, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hello HankEthanol do not explode like gasoline. It will burn but do not > cause a burst explosion like gasoline. It is safer and if there is an > accident and it spill over the enviroment, you get some drunk fishes but > nothing serious, after a hangover they will be fine. > As far as I know in some states in the US is possible also to destill your > own ethanol for fuel, of course you must get the permit. > Is a ideaBest wishesJuergen > > > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > schrieb am 14:31 Montag, 21.August 2017: > > > Juergen,That is interesting, what makes Ethanol safer? does it have a > lower flash point? No worries with the passengers drinking the fuel, I will > post a sign that says" if you drink the fuel you have to swim home" > ;-)Hank > > On Monday, August 21, 2017, 9:24:42 AM MDT, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Hank,An idea is to convert the motor to ethanol, it looses 10% power, but > ethanol is saver than gasoline. The greatest problem is to avoid that the > passengers drink the fuel :-).Best wishesJuergen > > > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > schrieb am 6:52 Sonntag, 20.August 2017: > > > Hi All,My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is > a bit skinny. I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has > been converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard. I converted it many years > ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine > is stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil > cooler. The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is > it? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of > fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it > dives. An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air > through a duct to the outside of the sub. I know as a rule it is considered > a bad idea but with careful installation it could be a very nice drive > system. This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel engine. The > Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to escape. > The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel. I was bragging > to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with two pulls in the > spring. He said it must need a tune up LOL it should start in one pull. > Hank______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 23 07:54:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 11:54:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive In-Reply-To: References: <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414@mail.yahoo.com> <1438135149.2797729.1503329051407@mail.yahoo.com> <1406613451.2169054.1503343503293@mail.yahoo.com> <38269730.3789582.1503408124691@mail.yahoo.com> <1346761487.38267.1503435615762@mail.yahoo.com> <1770425490.135705.1503440430044@mail.yahoo.com> <1702075182.430221.1503484422181@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <626247666.494017.1503489293966@mail.yahoo.com> James,I have never had a diesel engine but I have travelled many miles under my own power. ?I think an engine is the only way to go if you have the room etc. ?Do you have a large enough opening to get one in? ? You must be enjoying that new shop.Hank On Wednesday, August 23, 2017, 5:22:38 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: yes, your probably right.? the idea would be to have some sort of rope mooring system which would pull the sub into the pontoons and then be able to lock them solid so the whole thing becomes one.? But its only an idea.? Im still going for the diesel inboard I think.? Hoping to start in the winter. On 23/08/2017, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi JamesI would be worried about the boat heaving in waves while the sub is > relatively stable and trying to marry the two together.? Lots of pinched > fingers in bad weather.? I suppose if the weather is bad and it is to > difficult to get the sub inside the pontoons, you could simply tow it until > it is safe to capture.It seems the last consideration in designing a sub is > how well it will tow.? I think a semi submersible? support boat is the > answer, at least that is what I am working toward.Hank > > On Wednesday, August 23, 2017, 1:58:25 AM MDT, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank.? Just an idea but I had thought of some sort of pontoon thing, a bit > like a catermaran that's you drive the sub into.? Pontoon is then firmly > attached to the sub so it becomes one surface boat.? Pontoon can have a > decent outboard, fuel, stores, BBQ etc.? Drive to the dive site. Detach, > dive and re attach when done.? Thoughts?James > > On Tuesday, 22 August 2017, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Alan,Have you towed a sub with a small boat?? It sucks real bad.? I hate it > !!! ;-)? ? Packing the sub with batteries is an option up to 260 lbs.? That > is not cheap.? My batteries are almost 600 dollars each here in Canada. > Lots to think about I guess.Hank > > On Tuesday, August 22, 2017, 3:47:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Hank,you would have to turn off & on the motor in the inflatable &detach the > power cord which may be more difficult than justtowing with the inflatable & > boarding the sub.I know you disliked towing because of the > unpredictableweather, but have you been in the bad weather with > the inflatable! They can take anything! If you pulled the nose ofthe > inflatable in to the submarine with a rope, you should beable to board in > foul weather. ( my theory anyway )Is the outboard going to be an over-kill > as you will be limited by your thrusters as to how much power you required! >? What about buying more batteries to extend the range!Pack them in if it's a > long journey. They may come in handydriving a heater or air con on shorter > dives. Other than that maybe make a pod with a diesel engine in itthat can > replace your escape pod!Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > On 23/08/2017, at 9:00 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hi All,Well I had an idea that I could put a small diesel engine in my > escape pod and it would be a quick easy modification.? Turns out a diesel > that will fit is not readily available, so I looked at my? gas engine.? That > fits but is full of hazards that will take to much time to address.? So I > give up!? Now onto the new idea.? I thought about putting a 36V generator in > my inflatable since I am towing it anyways.? I can just tie the boat to the > side of Gamma and run a power line over to the sub to power a drive motor. > That will work but I have improved on that idea.? The boat will have a > Johnson 9.5 hp outboard on it, so why not machine a hub onto the outboard > motor flywheel and drive a 36V alternator( generator)? directly, then? the > same motor can do two jobs.? It has to be direct drive to the alternator > because the crank bearing in the motor can not take a side load for a pulley > and belt.? This could work!Hank. > > On Tuesday, August 22, 2017, 9:49:18 AM MDT, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hello HankEthanol do not explode like gasoline. It will burn but do not > cause a burst explosion like gasoline. It is safer and if there is an > accident and it spill over the enviroment, you get some drunk fishes but > nothing serious, after a hangover they will be fine. > As far as I know in some states in the US is possible also to destill your > own ethanol for fuel, of course you must get the permit. > Is a ideaBest wishesJuergen > > >? ? hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > schrieb am 14:31 Montag, 21.August 2017: > > >? Juergen,That is interesting, what makes Ethanol safer?? does it have a > lower flash point?? No worries with the passengers drinking the fuel, I will > post a sign that says" if you drink the fuel you have to swim home" >? ;-)Hank > > On Monday, August 21, 2017, 9:24:42 AM MDT, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Hank,An idea is to convert the motor to ethanol, it looses 10% power, but > ethanol is saver than gasoline. The greatest problem is to avoid that the > passengers drink the fuel :-).Best wishesJuergen > > >? ? hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > schrieb am 6:52 Sonntag, 20.August 2017: > > >? Hi All,My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect is > a bit skinny.? I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that has > been converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard.? I converted it many years > ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The engine > is stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal oil > cooler.? The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or is > it?? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of > fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it > dives.? An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air > through a duct to the outside of the sub.? I know as a rule it is considered > a bad idea but with careful? installation it could be a very nice drive > system.? This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel engine.? The > Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to escape. > The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel.? I was bragging > to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with two pulls in the > spring.? He said it must need a tune up LOL? it should start in one pull. >? Hank______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > >? ? ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > >? ? ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 23 08:44:37 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 12:44:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: References: <532238235.142997.1503360053984.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <532238235.142997.1503360053984@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2031535561.695384.1503492277713@mail.yahoo.com> Confirmed. ?DNA from torso washed up on shore matches that of Kim Wall. ?Body dismembered and weighted down to sink it. ?Authorities state they did find dried blood in the submarine that also matched Wall's DNA, so apparently scuttling your submarine to hide evidence isn't foolproof. ?Perhaps this is what caused Madsen to change his story. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 23 09:23:28 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 09:23:28 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive Message-ID: <003201d31c13$01fcd6e0$05f684a0$@gmail.com> Maynard's old webpage is still up with pictures, though there are endless dropdowns that can be annoying. Be that at is may, this one has several pictures of the boat he designed for Lake Diver. http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/sub2.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 23 09:33:44 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 14:33:44 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] engine drive In-Reply-To: <626247666.494017.1503489293966@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1137245661.1318959.1503229814414@mail.yahoo.com> <1438135149.2797729.1503329051407@mail.yahoo.com> <1406613451.2169054.1503343503293@mail.yahoo.com> <38269730.3789582.1503408124691@mail.yahoo.com> <1346761487.38267.1503435615762@mail.yahoo.com> <1770425490.135705.1503440430044@mail.yahoo.com> <1702075182.430221.1503484422181@mail.yahoo.com> <626247666.494017.1503489293966@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, Yes, shop is taking shape. I am still working on setting it up properly, but im nearly there now. 3phase is all installed and machines working. Just fitting cupboards and storage space. I think I can get a diesel engine in the new sub. Will be tight though. On 23/08/2017, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > James,I have never had a diesel engine but I have travelled many miles under > my own power. ?I think an engine is the only way to go if you have the room > etc. ?Do you have a large enough opening to get one in? ? You must be > enjoying that new shop.Hank > > On Wednesday, August 23, 2017, 5:22:38 AM MDT, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > yes, your probably right.? the idea would be to have some sort of rope > mooring system which would pull the sub into the pontoons and then be > able to lock them solid so the whole thing becomes one.? But its only > an idea.? Im still going for the diesel inboard I think.? Hoping to > start in the winter. > > On 23/08/2017, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> Hi JamesI would be worried about the boat heaving in waves while the sub >> is >> relatively stable and trying to marry the two together.? Lots of pinched >> fingers in bad weather.? I suppose if the weather is bad and it is to >> difficult to get the sub inside the pontoons, you could simply tow it >> until >> it is safe to capture.It seems the last consideration in designing a sub >> is >> how well it will tow.? I think a semi submersible? support boat is the >> answer, at least that is what I am working toward.Hank >> >> On Wednesday, August 23, 2017, 1:58:25 AM MDT, James Frankland via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hank.? Just an idea but I had thought of some sort of pontoon thing, a >> bit >> like a catermaran that's you drive the sub into.? Pontoon is then firmly >> attached to the sub so it becomes one surface boat.? Pontoon can have a >> decent outboard, fuel, stores, BBQ etc.? Drive to the dive site. Detach, >> dive and re attach when done.? Thoughts?James >> >> On Tuesday, 22 August 2017, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Alan,Have you towed a sub with a small boat?? It sucks real bad.? I hate >> it >> !!! ;-)? ? Packing the sub with batteries is an option up to 260 lbs. >> That >> is not cheap.? My batteries are almost 600 dollars each here in Canada. >> Lots to think about I guess.Hank >> >> On Tuesday, August 22, 2017, 3:47:29 PM MDT, Alan via >> Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Hank,you would have to turn off & on the motor in the inflatable &detach >> the >> power cord which may be more difficult than justtowing with the inflatable >> & >> boarding the sub.I know you disliked towing because of the >> unpredictableweather, but have you been in the bad weather with >> the inflatable! They can take anything! If you pulled the nose ofthe >> inflatable in to the submarine with a rope, you should beable to board in >> foul weather. ( my theory anyway )Is the outboard going to be an >> over-kill >> as you will be limited by your thrusters as to how much power you >> required! >>? What about buying more batteries to extend the range!Pack them in if it's >> a >> long journey. They may come in handydriving a heater or air con on >> shorter >> dives. Other than that maybe make a pod with a diesel engine in itthat >> can >> replace your escape pod!Cheers Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> On 23/08/2017, at 9:00 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> >> Hi All,Well I had an idea that I could put a small diesel engine in my >> escape pod and it would be a quick easy modification.? Turns out a diesel >> that will fit is not readily available, so I looked at my? gas engine. >> That >> fits but is full of hazards that will take to much time to address.? So I >> give up!? Now onto the new idea.? I thought about putting a 36V generator >> in >> my inflatable since I am towing it anyways.? I can just tie the boat to >> the >> side of Gamma and run a power line over to the sub to power a drive >> motor. >> That will work but I have improved on that idea.? The boat will have a >> Johnson 9.5 hp outboard on it, so why not machine a hub onto the outboard >> motor flywheel and drive a 36V alternator( generator)? directly, then >> the >> same motor can do two jobs.? It has to be direct drive to the alternator >> because the crank bearing in the motor can not take a side load for a >> pulley >> and belt.? This could work!Hank. >> >> On Tuesday, August 22, 2017, 9:49:18 AM MDT, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz >> via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hello HankEthanol do not explode like gasoline. It will burn but do not >> cause a burst explosion like gasoline. It is safer and if there is an >> accident and it spill over the enviroment, you get some drunk fishes but >> nothing serious, after a hangover they will be fine. >> As far as I know in some states in the US is possible also to destill >> your >> own ethanol for fuel, of course you must get the permit. >> Is a ideaBest wishesJuergen >> >> >>? ? hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > org> >> schrieb am 14:31 Montag, 21.August 2017: >> >> >>? Juergen,That is interesting, what makes Ethanol safer?? does it have a >> lower flash point?? No worries with the passengers drinking the fuel, I >> will >> post a sign that says" if you drink the fuel you have to swim home" >>? ;-)Hank >> >> On Monday, August 21, 2017, 9:24:42 AM MDT, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi Hank,An idea is to convert the motor to ethanol, it looses 10% power, >> but >> ethanol is saver than gasoline. The greatest problem is to avoid that the >> passengers drink the fuel :-).Best wishesJuergen >> >> >>? ? hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > org> >> schrieb am 6:52 Sonntag, 20.August 2017: >> >> >>? Hi All,My diesel engine did not work out in the end, and 6 hp I suspect >> is >> a bit skinny.? I do have a beautiful 15 hp 4 stroke Honda outboard that >> has >> been converted to run a hydraulic pump inboard.? I converted it many >> years >> ago to power my sternwheeler but ended up with an antique engine. The >> engine >> is stripped down to a bare engine with external water pump and internal >> oil >> cooler.? The problem is, it is a gas engine, and that is a big NO NO or >> is >> it?? If the fuel supply is outside the hull and the engine is run out of >> fuel before a dive, then there is no fuel at all inside the sub while it >> dives.? An engine compartment blower fan can constantly circulate air >> through a duct to the outside of the sub.? I know as a rule it is >> considered >> a bad idea but with careful? installation it could be a very nice drive >> system.? This would be much quieter and smoother than a diesel engine. >> The >> Honda would be very easy to remove from the escape pod if I need to >> escape. >> The Honda 4 stroke is as reliable as even a Yanmar diesel.? I was >> bragging >> to a Honda mechanic one time that the Honda starts with two pulls in the >> spring.? He said it must need a tune up LOL? it should start in one pull. >>? Hank______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >>? ? ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >>? ? ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 23 09:36:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 07:36:56 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: kV22dYPho8Qk9kV24dmA4t References: <532238235.142997.1503360053984.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <532238235.142997.1503360053984@mail.yahoo.com> kV22dYPho8Qk9kV24dmA4t Message-ID: <8184fbaf-44e9-4a5d-8f9c-2bd86a4cfc7c@email.android.com> Didn't he scuttle in shallow water? That wouldn't hide anything. Sean On August 23, 2017 6:44:37 AM MDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Confirmed. ?DNA from torso washed up on shore matches that of Kim Wall. >?Body dismembered and weighted down to sink it. ?Authorities state they >did find dried blood in the submarine that also matched Wall's DNA, so >apparently scuttling your submarine to hide evidence isn't foolproof. >?Perhaps this is what caused Madsen to change his story. > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 23 10:35:08 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 14:35:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <8184fbaf-44e9-4a5d-8f9c-2bd86a4cfc7c@email.android.com> References: <532238235.142997.1503360053984.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <532238235.142997.1503360053984@mail.yahoo.com> <8184fbaf-44e9-4a5d-8f9c-2bd86a4cfc7c@email.android.com> Message-ID: <644970388.478620.1503498908106@mail.yahoo.com> Maybe it was a last minute effort to wash away the blood...?Al Secor From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus Didn't he scuttle in shallow water? That wouldn't hide anything. Sean On August 23, 2017 6:44:37 AM MDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Confirmed. ?DNA from torso washed up on shore matches that of Kim Wall. ?Body dismembered and weighted down to sink it. ?Authorities state they did find dried blood in the submarine that also matched Wall's DNA, so apparently scuttling your submarine to hide evidence isn't foolproof. ?Perhaps this is what caused Madsen to change his story. Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 23 12:19:46 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 18:19:46 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <8184fbaf-44e9-4a5d-8f9c-2bd86a4cfc7c@email.android.com> References: <532238235.142997.1503360053984.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <532238235.142997.1503360053984@mail.yahoo.com> kV22dYPho8Qk9kV24dmA4t <8184fbaf-44e9-4a5d-8f9c-2bd86a4cfc7c@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1503505186501.366811.15206005cab0f3fb0dbb727dd0301b2b10a3d6b4@spica.telekom.de> Far around is no deep water.. -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus Datum: 2017-08-23T15:39:06+0200 Von: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Didn't he scuttle in shallow water? That wouldn't hide anything. Sean On August 23, 2017 6:44:37 AM MDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Confirmed. DNA from torso washed up on shore matches that of Kim Wall. Body dismembered and weighted down to sink it. Authorities state they did find dried blood in the submarine that also matched Wall's DNA, so apparently scuttling your submarine to hide evidence isn't foolproof. Perhaps this is what caused Madsen to change his story. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 23 12:21:20 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 04:21:20 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <2031535561.695384.1503492277713@mail.yahoo.com> References: <532238235.142997.1503360053984.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <532238235.142997.1503360053984@mail.yahoo.com> <2031535561.695384.1503492277713@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Below is a diagram of the subs movements. Jon, you could be right about Peter changing his story after being confronted with the fact her blood was found in his submarine. I read that early on before they found the body, that they had acquired her hair brush etc., to get her dna. He's going to have some explaining to do now! He must have crushed or punctured her lungs as well, as they are saying he additionally mutilated the torso to supposedly release gases to facilitate sinking. Sent from my iPad > On 24/08/2017, at 12:44 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Confirmed. DNA from torso washed up on shore matches that of Kim Wall. Body dismembered and weighted down to sink it. Authorities state they did find dried blood in the submarine that also matched Wall's DNA, so apparently scuttling your submarine to hide evidence isn't foolproof. Perhaps this is what caused Madsen to change his story. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 67610 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 23 16:06:02 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 20:06:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: References: <532238235.142997.1503360053984.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <532238235.142997.1503360053984@mail.yahoo.com> <2031535561.695384.1503492277713@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1834543284.1196663.1503518762654@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Alan, I'm not sure Madsen has to say anything more. ?From what I've read, Danish legal scholars believe there is enough circumstantial evidence to convict. ?I also read that murder convictions rarely result in more than 16 years of incarceration because of their belief in rehabilitation. ?Anyone want to sign up for a midnight cruise with Madsen when he gets out? Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 23 17:31:48 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 09:31:48 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <1834543284.1196663.1503518762654@mail.yahoo.com> References: <532238235.142997.1503360053984.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <532238235.142997.1503360053984@mail.yahoo.com> <2031535561.695384.1503492277713@mail.yahoo.com> <1834543284.1196663.1503518762654@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jon, Peter must be very intelligent to have achieved what he has so far, & this is such an ugly mess that it is obviously not planned. Whatever happened initially, he has just made it worse by these desperate attempts to cover up. He looked surprisingly calm when he talked to media after he had just sunk the sub. what about Carsten; he is not far from there, & the ladies won't be queuing up for a dive in his submarine at the moment! (He also has that diver lockout!) Alan Sent from my iPad > On 24/08/2017, at 8:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > I'm not sure Madsen has to say anything more. From what I've read, Danish legal scholars believe there is enough circumstantial evidence to convict. I also read that murder convictions rarely result in more than 16 years of incarceration because of their belief in rehabilitation. Anyone want to sign up for a midnight cruise with Madsen when he gets out? > > Jon > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 23 18:41:36 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 17:41:36 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! Message-ID: <201708232241.v7NMfABI032535@whoweb.com> Hey everyone! I am pleased to announce that KISS Rebreathers and Pisces VI have paired together to create a Emergency Breathing Apparatus (EBA) specifically designed for submarines. Unlike the built in breathing system (BIBS), this system does not raise atmospheric pressure in the cabin. This system is intended for a scrubber failure/smoke/fire/toxic gas in the cabin emergency. We have not released the product publicly yet and I decided to let everyone in psubs in on a deal since if it were not for psubs, Pisces VI would not be a reality. Pisces VI is going to do a mass buy of these and anyone who wants them, let me know asap before I place the order. I am able to get them for $2500 each for the complete system which is a fraction of the price of what they will go for. This is a very similar system to what the DSV Alvin uses and there systems cost $20,000 a peice. I would encourage every submarine owner to review your smoke in the cockpit emergency plan and actually calculate real results. I think you will find BIBS are non-satisfactory as we did. Let me know any questions you may have and to place an order paired with our order for the discount. Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 23 19:12:23 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 18:12:23 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! In-Reply-To: <201708232241.v7NMfABI032535@whoweb.com> References: <201708232241.v7NMfABI032535@whoweb.com> Message-ID: Scott, I don't have a lot of room in my boat. I do have a BIBS. Do you have a link that would show details? What is the physical size of the unit. Is it one unit per person? Is this mounted or a free standing bit of kit? Best Regards Cliff On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hey everyone! > > I am pleased to announce that KISS Rebreathers and Pisces VI have paired > together to create a Emergency Breathing Apparatus (EBA) specifically > designed for submarines. Unlike the built in breathing system (BIBS), this > system does not raise atmospheric pressure in the cabin. This system is > intended for a scrubber failure/smoke/fire/toxic gas in the cabin > emergency. We have not released the product publicly yet and I decided to > let everyone in psubs in on a deal since if it were not for psubs, Pisces > VI would not be a reality. Pisces VI is going to do a mass buy of these and > anyone who wants them, let me know asap before I place the order. I am able > to get them for $2500 each for the complete system which is a fraction of > the price of what they will go for. This is a very similar system to what > the DSV Alvin uses and there systems cost $20,000 a peice. I would > encourage every submarine owner to review your smoke in the cockpit > emergency plan and actually calculate real results. I think you will find > BIBS are non-satisfactory as we did. Let me know any questions you may have > and to place an order paired with our order for the discount. > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 23 19:44:23 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 23:44:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] endurance test References: <139050777.1027242.1503531863074.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <139050777.1027242.1503531863074@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,Before I get ahead of myself I better do an actual endurance test of gamma's range. ?I did add a battery bank and two thrusters over the winter for my long missions. ? ?I will go to my favourite lake and go back and forth ?to establish the distance it can travel. ?My question is how far can I push my AGM batteries. ?At what voltage should I quit?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 23 21:28:09 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 18:28:09 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus Message-ID: <20170823182809.F1B74368@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 23 21:37:47 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 13:37:47 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <20170823182809.F1B74368@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20170823182809.F1B74368@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <0C9CECD4-3A31-46AF-A311-463E1E27D634@yahoo.com> Yes, he made submarines! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 24/08/2017, at 1:28 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Truly bizarre ! Were there any clues that he was deranged ? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus > Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 20:06:02 +0000 (UTC) > > Hi Alan, > > I'm not sure Madsen has to say anything more. From what I've read, Danish legal scholars believe there is enough circumstantial evidence to convict. I also read that murder convictions rarely result in more than 16 years of incarceration because of their belief in rehabilitation. Anyone want to sign up for a midnight cruise with Madsen when he gets out? > > Jon > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 23 21:45:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 18:45:50 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus Message-ID: <20170823184550.F1B10578@m0117459.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 23 21:53:09 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gabriel Quinnan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 18:53:09 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <20170823184550.F1B10578@m0117459.ppops.net> References: <20170823184550.F1B10578@m0117459.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi, I've been lurking here for years. I'm a criminal defense attorney and, maybe one day, a submariner. I would just caution folks that one rarely hears the whole story (or an accurate story) through the press. Which is why we are presumed innocent until proven otherwise. Gabe Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 23, 2017, at 6:45 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Not funny Alan > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus > Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 13:37:47 +1200 > > Yes, he made submarines! > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 24/08/2017, at 1:28 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Truly bizarre ! Were there any clues that he was deranged ? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus > Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 20:06:02 +0000 (UTC) > > Hi Alan, > > I'm not sure Madsen has to say anything more. From what I've read, Danish legal scholars believe there is enough circumstantial evidence to convict. I also read that murder convictions rarely result in more than 16 years of incarceration because of their belief in rehabilitation. Anyone want to sign up for a midnight cruise with Madsen when he gets out? > > Jon > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 23 22:29:41 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 21:29:41 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! Message-ID: <201708240235.v7O2ZrXG033685@whoweb.com> Cliff. It is a small canister and facemask. The canister can be mounted or made to hang around the neck. It is the size of one of those large beer cans. I can get exact mesurments in a bit. It isn't on the KISS website yet because it was debeloped by KISS and Pisces VI together and we just finished development. It will probably be released publicly next year. Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/23/17 6:12 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! Scott, I don't have a lot of room in my boat.? I do have a BIBS.? Do you have a link that would show details?? What is the physical size of the unit.? Is it one unit per person?? Is this mounted or a free standing bit of kit? Best Regards Cliff On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey everyone! I am pleased to announce that KISS Rebreathers and Pisces VI have paired together to create a Emergency Breathing Apparatus (EBA) specifically designed for submarines. Unlike the built in breathing system (BIBS), this system does not raise atmospheric pressure in the cabin. This system is intended for a scrubber failure/smoke/fire/toxic gas in the cabin emergency. We have not released the product publicly yet and I decided to let everyone in psubs in on a deal since if it were not for psubs, Pisces VI would not be a reality. Pisces VI is going to do a mass buy of these and anyone who wants them, let me know asap before I place the order. I am able to get them for $2500 each for the complete system which is a fraction of the price of what they will go for. This is a very similar system to what the DSV Alvin uses and there systems cost $20,000 a peice. I would encourage every submarine owner to review your smoke in the cockpit emergency plan and actually calculate real results. I think you will find BIBS are non-satisfactory as we did. Let me know any questions you may have and to place an order paired with our order for the discount. Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 23 23:11:33 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 03:11:33 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! Message-ID: My friend Tom Rose's $100.00 USD rebreather. Unfortunately, a few years ago he died of a heart attack. Tom was a character. I've been contemplating making something similar out of a piece of acrylic pipe, like an old style canister light battery holder, and an MSA mask. Add a stub for O2 addition. Before I got into this psubs hobby I use to build DIY mixed gas rebreathers. http://web.archive.org/web/20080420110800/http://www.atlimp.com/pend2.htm Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Aug 23 23:42:37 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 15:42:37 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Brian, I am not an expert on rebreathers but in a submarine, could you have a lung with full face mask & 3 hoses attached to it. One hose pushes on to the submarines O2 outlet, & the other 2 to your CO2 scrubber inlet & outlet. Manually control the volume of the lung or set up some sort of bellows add system! In a 1 ton volume submarine you would have over an hour of breathing off a standard regulator & air before you doubled the pressure inside the sub anyway. I am installing ptfe insulated wiring on the inside of my sub to avoid any fires with that, but you can't guarantee what's in all the electronics you put in your sub! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 24/08/2017, at 3:11 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > My friend Tom Rose's $100.00 USD rebreather. Unfortunately, a few years ago he died of a heart attack. Tom was a character. > > I've been contemplating making something similar out of a piece of acrylic pipe, like an old style canister light battery holder, and an MSA mask. Add a stub for O2 addition. Before I got into this psubs hobby I use to build DIY mixed gas rebreathers. > > http://web.archive.org/web/20080420110800/http://www.atlimp.com/pend2.htm > > > > Get Outlook for Android > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 24 00:34:20 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 04:34:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <0C9CECD4-3A31-46AF-A311-463E1E27D634@yahoo.com> References: <20170823182809.F1B74368@m0117567.ppops.net> <0C9CECD4-3A31-46AF-A311-463E1E27D634@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <71372171.1548859.1503549260553@mail.yahoo.com> Love your sense of humor Alan. ?:) On Wednesday, August 23, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, he made submarines!Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/08/2017, at 1:28 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Truly bizarre !?? Were there any clues that he was deranged ? ?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 20:06:02 +0000 (UTC) Hi Alan, I'm not sure Madsen has to say anything more. ?From what I've read, Danish legal scholars believe there is enough circumstantial evidence to convict. ?I also read that murder convictions rarely result in more than 16 years of incarceration because of their belief in rehabilitation. ?Anyone want to sign up for a midnight cruise with Madsen when he gets out? Jon _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 24 01:22:29 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 00:22:29 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?EBA!!!?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20170824052229.31002.qmail@server268.com> I guess I should mention some other reasons why this unit is worth it *It has a 3hr breath time *It can be hooked up to u/w comms to keep communications with the surface while still breathing safe air *It is compact (unlike the BioMarine units that a lot of submarines use for their EBAs) *Fully enclosed mask which makes donning way faster than a reg and mask that most BIBS use *All parts are professionally built to the KISS standard. (If you have ever dove a KISS rebreather you will know what I mean Probably one of the most important things I learned at my month at sea with Woods Hole and the DSV Alvin is the importance of actually running realistic drills of emergency situations. This was made bluntly obvious to me when we really started talking about it. For example has anyone on psubs actually done a smoke in cabin drill from operational depth? I think if you do you will be shocked. Trying to don a BIBS and mask, ensure passengers get their BIBS and mask donned, locate the issue, isolate the issue, get the submarine on it's way up, communicate with the surface, on the way up (which is probably at a full blow), slow the accent, vent the cabin from the BIBS at a slow rate so you don't blow a viewport or blow the hatch dogs and flood the submarine at 10 to 30 feet likely drowning everyone. Now that you have done this with a drill add the stress level and I think you will see why it is unacceptable. I know there was a comment on a hour of BIBS usage only brought up the pressure about 15psi. I would challenge you to do the calcs to see at what pressure a viewport or the hatch fails from internal pressure. I think again you will be shocked. I have learned a lot in my career with submarines and I know psubs is committed to safety above all other and I would love to help make it safer. This is the reason why I am pushing this so hard and sharing the discount. If you take nothing else from this e-mail, then I urge everyone to actually run their emergency plans under controlled circumstances then evaluate afterwards and ask, "with the stress level of a real situation, is this a good plan?". Thank you, Scott Waters > -------Original Message------- > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! > Sent: Aug 23 '17 22:43 > > Brian, > I am not an expert on rebreathers but > in a submarine, could you have a lung with full face mask & 3 hoses > attached to it. One hose pushes on to the submarines O2 outlet, > & the other 2 to your CO2 scrubber inlet & outlet. Manually control > the volume of the lung or set up some sort of bellows add system! > In a 1 ton volume submarine you would have over an hour of breathing > off a standard regulator & air before you doubled the pressure inside > the sub anyway. > I am installing ptfe insulated wiring on the inside of my sub to avoid > any > fires with that, but you can't guarantee what's in all the electronics > you > put in your sub! > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 24/08/2017, at 3:11 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > My friend Tom Rose's $100.00 USD rebreather. Unfortunately, a few > > years ago he died of a heart attack. Tom was a character. > > > > I've been contemplating making something similar out of a piece of > > acrylic pipe, like an old style canister light battery holder, and > > an MSA mask. Add a stub for O2 addition. Before I got into this > > psubs hobby I use to build DIY mixed gas rebreathers. > > > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20080420110800/http://www.atlimp.com/pend2.htm > > > > Get Outlook for Android > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > ------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 24 03:37:03 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (SnyderEmail via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 09:37:03 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: References: <20170823184550.F1B10578@m0117459.ppops.net> Message-ID: <5B84CDD4-FDAC-4C74-A219-6B65D0367F95@snyderemail.com> Gabe makes an excellent point about getting the full story, but what could have possibly required the decapitation and dismemberment of an attractive female passenger and ultimately the sinking of the sub? Someone was definitely having a bad day. Greg > On Aug 24, 2017, at 3:53 AM, Gabriel Quinnan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi, > I've been lurking here for years. I'm a criminal defense attorney and, maybe one day, a submariner. I would just caution folks that one rarely hears the whole story (or an accurate story) through the press. Which is why we are presumed innocent until proven otherwise. > Gabe > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 23, 2017, at 6:45 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Not funny Alan >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus >> Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 13:37:47 +1200 >> >> Yes, he made submarines! >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 24/08/2017, at 1:28 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Truly bizarre ! Were there any clues that he was deranged ? >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus >> Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 20:06:02 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Hi Alan, >> >> I'm not sure Madsen has to say anything more. From what I've read, Danish legal scholars believe there is enough circumstantial evidence to convict. I also read that murder convictions rarely result in more than 16 years of incarceration because of their belief in rehabilitation. Anyone want to sign up for a midnight cruise with Madsen when he gets out? >> >> Jon >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 24 06:34:48 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 10:34:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! In-Reply-To: <20170824052229.31002.qmail@server268.com> References: <20170824052229.31002.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: <731341999.1274801.1503570888319@mail.yahoo.com> Scott,I have to admit that I have not put so much thought into that scenario. ?I think because I (we) ?spend so much time and effort installing wiring with fuses and breakers that I have a false sense of security where short circuits are concerned. ?I am glad you brought it up and I am sure in the future you will be pointing ?out more risk assessments. ?We are lucky to have you with us. ??What did Pisces VI have originally?Hank On Wednesday, August 23, 2017, 11:22:46 PM MDT, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I guess I should mention some other reasons why this unit is worth it *It has a 3hr breath time *It can be hooked up to u/w comms to keep communications with the surface while still breathing safe air *It is compact (unlike the BioMarine units that a lot of submarines use for their EBAs) *Fully enclosed mask which makes donning way faster than a reg and mask that most BIBS use *All parts are professionally built to the KISS standard. (If you have ever dove a KISS rebreather you will know what I mean Probably one of the most important things I learned at my month at sea with Woods Hole and the DSV Alvin is the importance of actually running realistic drills of emergency situations. This was made bluntly obvious to me when we really started talking about it. For example has anyone on psubs actually done a smoke in cabin drill from operational depth? I think if you do you will be shocked. Trying to don a BIBS and mask, ensure passengers get their BIBS and mask donned, locate the issue, isolate the issue, get the submarine on it's way up, communicate with the surface, on the way up (which is probably at a full blow), slow the accent, vent the cabin from the BIBS at a slow rate so you don't blow a viewport or blow the hatch dogs and flood the submarine at 10 to 30 feet likely drowning everyone. Now that you have done this with a drill add the stress level and I think you will see why it is unacceptable. I know there was a comment on a hour of BIBS usage only brought up the p! ressure about 15psi. I would challenge you to do the calcs to see at what pressure a viewport or the hatch fails from internal pressure. I think again you will be shocked. I have learned a lot in my career with submarines and I know psubs is committed to safety above all other and I would love to help make it safer. This is the reason why I am pushing this so hard and sharing the discount. If you take nothing else from this e-mail, then I urge everyone to actually run their emergency plans under controlled circumstances then evaluate afterwards and ask, "with the stress level of a real situation, is this a good plan?". Thank you, Scott Waters? >? -------Original Message------- >? From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! >? Sent: Aug 23 '17 22:43 >? >? Brian, >? I am not an expert on rebreathers but >? in a submarine, could you have a lung with full face mask & 3 hoses >? attached to it. One hose pushes on to the submarines O2 outlet, >? & the other 2 to your CO2 scrubber inlet & outlet. Manually control >? the volume of the lung or set up some sort of bellows add system! >? In a 1 ton volume submarine you would have over an hour of breathing >? off a standard regulator & air before you doubled the pressure inside >? the sub anyway. >? I am installing ptfe insulated wiring on the inside of my sub to avoid >? any >? fires with that, but you can't guarantee what's in all the electronics >? you >? put in your sub! >? Alan >? >? Sent from my iPad >? >? On 24/08/2017, at 3:11 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? >? > My friend Tom Rose's $100.00 USD rebreather. Unfortunately, a few >? > years ago he died of a heart attack. Tom was a character. >? > >? > I've been contemplating making something similar out of a piece of >? > acrylic pipe, like an old style canister light battery holder, and >? > an MSA mask. Add a stub for O2 addition. Before I got into this >? > psubs hobby I use to build DIY mixed gas rebreathers. >? > >? > >? http://web.archive.org/web/20080420110800/http://www.atlimp.com/pend2.htm >? > >? > Get Outlook for Android >? >? > _______________________________________________ >? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >? ------------------------- >? _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 24 07:07:54 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 12:07:54 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FREE: Handbook of Acrylics In-Reply-To: <619317.663.bm@smtp214.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <619317.663.bm@smtp214.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I bought my copy a while ago for ?150, then lost it in a house move and had to buy another......... now they are free....:( On 22/08/2017, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks Jon, email sent! > Keith T. > > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > -------- Original message --------From: Jon Wallace via > Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/21/17 4:37 > PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FREE: Handbook of > Acrylics > > Folks, > I received a letter today from Michael Stachiw, son of the late Dr. Jerry > Stachiw, that the family is now distributing copies of "Handbook of > Acrylics" free of charge, you pay just shipping charges. ?I suspect once > their stock is gone you will not see this book published again, therefore I > encourage you to pick up a copy ASAP. > Send email to fosserm at agbusinessmail.com or chris at agbusinessmail.com if you > want a copy of the book. > Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 24 09:52:06 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 13:52:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <5B84CDD4-FDAC-4C74-A219-6B65D0367F95@snyderemail.com> References: <20170823184550.F1B10578@m0117459.ppops.net> <5B84CDD4-FDAC-4C74-A219-6B65D0367F95@snyderemail.com> Message-ID: <1849990721.1863303.1503582726340@mail.yahoo.com> You can call me jumping to conclusions, but sometimes 1+1 does equal 2. Show original message On Thursday, August 24, 2017 3:39 AM, SnyderEmail via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Gabe makes an excellent point about getting the full story, but what could have possibly required the decapitation and dismemberment of an attractive female passenger and ultimately the sinking of the sub??Someone was definitely having a bad day.Greg? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 24 10:24:52 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 09:24:52 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?EBA!!!?= In-Reply-To: <731341999.1274801.1503570888319@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20170824052229.31002.qmail@server268.com> <731341999.1274801.1503570888319@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20170824142452.26612.qmail@server268.com> Hank, I completely understand being so into the project a lot of "what if" scenarios are never considered. That is one of the reasons, of the 14 people that work on Pisces VI, one of them does nothing but safety and writing the operations manual. The Pisces VI used a EBA built by Drager called the Oxy-SR 30M. It is basically the same thing KISS and Pisces developed except it only lasted 30 minutes, did not have the ability to hook up comms, and costs more. The Pisces VI has a lot more safety devices built into her, most of which are over kill for a Psub, but this is an area where I see most of the psubs lacking (including my own KW350 "Trustworthy"). Thank you, Scott Waters > -------Original Message------- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! > Sent: Aug 24 '17 05:40 > > Scott, > I have to admit that I have not put so much thought into that > scenario. I think because I (we) spend so much time and effort > installing wiring with fuses and breakers that I have a false sense of > security where short circuits are concerned. I am glad you brought it > up and I am sure in the future you will be pointing out more risk > assessments. We are lucky to have you with us. > What did Pisces VI have originally? > Hank > > On Wednesday, August 23, 2017, 11:22:46 PM MDT, via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I guess I should mention some other reasons why this unit is worth it > *It has a 3hr breath time > *It can be hooked up to u/w comms to keep communications with the > surface while still breathing safe air > *It is compact (unlike the BioMarine units that a lot of submarines > use for their EBAs) > *Fully enclosed mask which makes donning way faster than a reg and > mask that most BIBS use > *All parts are professionally built to the KISS standard. (If you have > ever dove a KISS rebreather you will know what I mean > > Probably one of the most important things I learned at my month at sea > with Woods Hole and the DSV Alvin is the importance of actually > running realistic drills of emergency situations. This was made > bluntly obvious to me when we really started talking about it. For > example has anyone on psubs actually done a smoke in cabin drill from > operational depth? I think if you do you will be shocked. Trying to > don a BIBS and mask, ensure passengers get their BIBS and mask donned, > locate the issue, isolate the issue, get the submarine on it's way up, > communicate with the surface, on the way up (which is probably at a > full blow), slow the accent, vent the cabin from the BIBS at a slow > rate so you don't blow a viewport or blow the hatch dogs and flood the > submarine at 10 to 30 feet likely drowning everyone. Now that you have > done this with a drill add the stress level and I think you will see > why it is unacceptable. I know there was a comment on a hour of BIBS > usage only brought up the p! > ressure about 15psi. I would challenge you to do the calcs to see at > what pressure a viewport or the hatch fails from internal pressure. I > think again you will be shocked. > > I have learned a lot in my career with submarines and I know psubs is > committed to safety above all other and I would love to help make it > safer. This is the reason why I am pushing this so hard and sharing > the discount. If you take nothing else from this e-mail, then I urge > everyone to actually run their emergency plans under controlled > circumstances then evaluate afterwards and ask, "with the stress level > of a real situation, is this a good plan?". > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! > > Sent: Aug 23 '17 22:43 > > > > Brian, > > I am not an expert on rebreathers but > > in a submarine, could you have a lung with full face mask & 3 hoses > > attached to it. One hose pushes on to the submarines O2 outlet, > > & the other 2 to your CO2 scrubber inlet & outlet. Manually control > > the volume of the lung or set up some sort of bellows add system! > > In a 1 ton volume submarine you would have over an hour of > breathing > > off a standard regulator & air before you doubled the pressure > inside > > the sub anyway. > > I am installing ptfe insulated wiring on the inside of my sub to > avoid > > any > > fires with that, but you can't guarantee what's in all the > electronics > > you > > put in your sub! > > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On 24/08/2017, at 3:11 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > > My friend Tom Rose's $100.00 USD rebreather. Unfortunately, a few > > > years ago he died of a heart attack. Tom was a character. > > > > > > I've been contemplating making something similar out of a piece > of > > > acrylic pipe, like an old style canister light battery holder, > and > > > an MSA mask. Add a stub for O2 addition. Before I got into this > > > psubs hobby I use to build DIY mixed gas rebreathers. > > > > > > > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20080420110800/http://www.atlimp.com/pend2.htm > > > > > > Get Outlook for Android > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > ------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > ------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 24 15:14:54 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 12:14:54 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! In-Reply-To: <20170824142452.26612.qmail@server268.com> References: <20170824052229.31002.qmail@server268.com> <731341999.1274801.1503570888319@mail.yahoo.com> <20170824142452.26612.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: Hi Scott, Are you taking orders or deposits for the unit. Any ideas as to the delivery schedule of the units? Any dimensions and or pictures would help for placement in the SeaQuestor would be helpful. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 7:24 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hank, > > I completely understand being so into the project a lot of "what if" > scenarios are never considered. That is one of the reasons, of the 14 > people that work on Pisces VI, one of them does nothing but safety and > writing the operations manual. The Pisces VI used a EBA built by Drager > called the Oxy-SR 30M. It is basically the same thing KISS and Pisces > developed except it only lasted 30 minutes, did not have the ability to > hook up comms, and costs more. > > The Pisces VI has a lot more safety devices built into her, most of which > are over kill for a Psub, but this is an area where I see most of the psubs > lacking (including my own KW350 "Trustworthy"). > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! > > Sent: Aug 24 '17 05:40 > > > > Scott, > > I have to admit that I have not put so much thought into that > > scenario. I think because I (we) spend so much time and effort > > installing wiring with fuses and breakers that I have a false sense of > > security where short circuits are concerned. I am glad you brought it > > up and I am sure in the future you will be pointing out more risk > > assessments. We are lucky to have you with us. > > What did Pisces VI have originally? > > Hank > > > > On Wednesday, August 23, 2017, 11:22:46 PM MDT, via > > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > I guess I should mention some other reasons why this unit is worth it > > *It has a 3hr breath time > > *It can be hooked up to u/w comms to keep communications with the > > surface while still breathing safe air > > *It is compact (unlike the BioMarine units that a lot of submarines > > use for their EBAs) > > *Fully enclosed mask which makes donning way faster than a reg and > > mask that most BIBS use > > *All parts are professionally built to the KISS standard. (If you have > > ever dove a KISS rebreather you will know what I mean > > > > Probably one of the most important things I learned at my month at sea > > with Woods Hole and the DSV Alvin is the importance of actually > > running realistic drills of emergency situations. This was made > > bluntly obvious to me when we really started talking about it. For > > example has anyone on psubs actually done a smoke in cabin drill from > > operational depth? I think if you do you will be shocked. Trying to > > don a BIBS and mask, ensure passengers get their BIBS and mask donned, > > locate the issue, isolate the issue, get the submarine on it's way up, > > communicate with the surface, on the way up (which is probably at a > > full blow), slow the accent, vent the cabin from the BIBS at a slow > > rate so you don't blow a viewport or blow the hatch dogs and flood the > > submarine at 10 to 30 feet likely drowning everyone. Now that you have > > done this with a drill add the stress level and I think you will see > > why it is unacceptable. I know there was a comment on a hour of BIBS > > usage only brought up the p! > > ressure about 15psi. I would challenge you to do the calcs to see at > > what pressure a viewport or the hatch fails from internal pressure. I > > think again you will be shocked. > > > > I have learned a lot in my career with submarines and I know psubs is > > committed to safety above all other and I would love to help make it > > safer. This is the reason why I am pushing this so hard and sharing > > the discount. If you take nothing else from this e-mail, then I urge > > everyone to actually run their emergency plans under controlled > > circumstances then evaluate afterwards and ask, "with the stress level > > of a real situation, is this a good plan?". > > > > Thank you, > > Scott Waters > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! > > > Sent: Aug 23 '17 22:43 > > > > > > Brian, > > > I am not an expert on rebreathers but > > > in a submarine, could you have a lung with full face mask & 3 hoses > > > attached to it. One hose pushes on to the submarines O2 outlet, > > > & the other 2 to your CO2 scrubber inlet & outlet. Manually control > > > the volume of the lung or set up some sort of bellows add system! > > > In a 1 ton volume submarine you would have over an hour of > > breathing > > > off a standard regulator & air before you doubled the pressure > > inside > > > the sub anyway. > > > I am installing ptfe insulated wiring on the inside of my sub to > > avoid > > > any > > > fires with that, but you can't guarantee what's in all the > > electronics > > > you > > > put in your sub! > > > Alan > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > On 24/08/2017, at 3:11 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles > > > wrote: > > > > > > > My friend Tom Rose's $100.00 USD rebreather. Unfortunately, a few > > > > years ago he died of a heart attack. Tom was a character. > > > > > > > > I've been contemplating making something similar out of a piece > > of > > > > acrylic pipe, like an old style canister light battery holder, > > and > > > > an MSA mask. Add a stub for O2 addition. Before I got into this > > > > psubs hobby I use to build DIY mixed gas rebreathers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20080420110800/http://www. > atlimp.com/pend2.htm > > > > > > > > Get Outlook for Android > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > ------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 24 16:50:42 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 15:50:42 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just uploaded to Youtube a bunch of pictues from the 2017 PSUBS Regatta. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3xPUFGvYDM&t=5s Regards Cliff On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Cliff Redus wrote: > Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad > for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the > best sub trip of my life! > > I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip and mailed > them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of the 2017 > Psub Regatta. > > I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key points > were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 miles > from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of 93F and > RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we ran partially > submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to see if we could get > out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The deeper dive on Aug > 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 miles from Doug's house > (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so even thought > the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it was a smooth > tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At the second dive site the > water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells. Could see > the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow back was rough. > With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster both in > the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing at > 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours. I did not > loose my cookies but it was close. > > As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with > launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing. > Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board water and > upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water. We > were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. > > More latter. > > Cliff > > > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >> 1-3). >> >> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >> >> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >> >> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >> tow line and helped with comms. >> >> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >> >> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >> than I can remember last week. >> >> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >> >> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >> >> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >> accomplishment with the mission. >> >> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >> sub to track straight). >> >> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 24 17:04:10 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 09:04:10 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! In-Reply-To: References: <20170824052229.31002.qmail@server268.com> <731341999.1274801.1503570888319@mail.yahoo.com> <20170824142452.26612.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: Thanks Scott, I second the request for photos, as I am still trying to understand it! What would be it's advantages above a modification of something like this emergency O2 mask with lung ($6-) You attach the O2 hose to the submarines O2 outlet, & have two hoses built in to the lung to attach to the scrubber. Can you use it for an emergency ascent or is it just for inside the sub? Does it contain O2 sensors & computer? Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/08/2017, at 7:14 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Scott, > Are you taking orders or deposits for the unit. Any ideas as to the delivery schedule of the units? Any dimensions and or pictures would help for placement in the SeaQuestor would be helpful. > > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > >> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 7:24 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hank, >> >> I completely understand being so into the project a lot of "what if" scenarios are never considered. That is one of the reasons, of the 14 people that work on Pisces VI, one of them does nothing but safety and writing the operations manual. The Pisces VI used a EBA built by Drager called the Oxy-SR 30M. It is basically the same thing KISS and Pisces developed except it only lasted 30 minutes, did not have the ability to hook up comms, and costs more. >> >> The Pisces VI has a lot more safety devices built into her, most of which are over kill for a Psub, but this is an area where I see most of the psubs lacking (including my own KW350 "Trustworthy"). >> >> Thank you, >> Scott Waters >> >> > -------Original Message------- >> > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! >> > Sent: Aug 24 '17 05:40 >> > >> > Scott, >> > I have to admit that I have not put so much thought into that >> > scenario. I think because I (we) spend so much time and effort >> > installing wiring with fuses and breakers that I have a false sense of >> > security where short circuits are concerned. I am glad you brought it >> > up and I am sure in the future you will be pointing out more risk >> > assessments. We are lucky to have you with us. >> > What did Pisces VI have originally? >> > Hank >> > >> > On Wednesday, August 23, 2017, 11:22:46 PM MDT, via >> > Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > >> > I guess I should mention some other reasons why this unit is worth it >> > *It has a 3hr breath time >> > *It can be hooked up to u/w comms to keep communications with the >> > surface while still breathing safe air >> > *It is compact (unlike the BioMarine units that a lot of submarines >> > use for their EBAs) >> > *Fully enclosed mask which makes donning way faster than a reg and >> > mask that most BIBS use >> > *All parts are professionally built to the KISS standard. (If you have >> > ever dove a KISS rebreather you will know what I mean >> > >> > Probably one of the most important things I learned at my month at sea >> > with Woods Hole and the DSV Alvin is the importance of actually >> > running realistic drills of emergency situations. This was made >> > bluntly obvious to me when we really started talking about it. For >> > example has anyone on psubs actually done a smoke in cabin drill from >> > operational depth? I think if you do you will be shocked. Trying to >> > don a BIBS and mask, ensure passengers get their BIBS and mask donned, >> > locate the issue, isolate the issue, get the submarine on it's way up, >> > communicate with the surface, on the way up (which is probably at a >> > full blow), slow the accent, vent the cabin from the BIBS at a slow >> > rate so you don't blow a viewport or blow the hatch dogs and flood the >> > submarine at 10 to 30 feet likely drowning everyone. Now that you have >> > done this with a drill add the stress level and I think you will see >> > why it is unacceptable. I know there was a comment on a hour of BIBS >> > usage only brought up the p! >> > ressure about 15psi. I would challenge you to do the calcs to see at >> > what pressure a viewport or the hatch fails from internal pressure. I >> > think again you will be shocked. >> > >> > I have learned a lot in my career with submarines and I know psubs is >> > committed to safety above all other and I would love to help make it >> > safer. This is the reason why I am pushing this so hard and sharing >> > the discount. If you take nothing else from this e-mail, then I urge >> > everyone to actually run their emergency plans under controlled >> > circumstances then evaluate afterwards and ask, "with the stress level >> > of a real situation, is this a good plan?". >> > >> > Thank you, >> > Scott Waters >> > >> > > -------Original Message------- >> > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> > >> > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> > >> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! >> > > Sent: Aug 23 '17 22:43 >> > > >> > > Brian, >> > > I am not an expert on rebreathers but >> > > in a submarine, could you have a lung with full face mask & 3 hoses >> > > attached to it. One hose pushes on to the submarines O2 outlet, >> > > & the other 2 to your CO2 scrubber inlet & outlet. Manually control >> > > the volume of the lung or set up some sort of bellows add system! >> > > In a 1 ton volume submarine you would have over an hour of >> > breathing >> > > off a standard regulator & air before you doubled the pressure >> > inside >> > > the sub anyway. >> > > I am installing ptfe insulated wiring on the inside of my sub to >> > avoid >> > > any >> > > fires with that, but you can't guarantee what's in all the >> > electronics >> > > you >> > > put in your sub! >> > > Alan >> > > >> > > Sent from my iPad >> > > >> > > On 24/08/2017, at 3:11 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > > My friend Tom Rose's $100.00 USD rebreather. Unfortunately, a few >> > > > years ago he died of a heart attack. Tom was a character. >> > > > >> > > > I've been contemplating making something similar out of a piece >> > of >> > > > acrylic pipe, like an old style canister light battery holder, >> > and >> > > > an MSA mask. Add a stub for O2 addition. Before I got into this >> > > > psubs hobby I use to build DIY mixed gas rebreathers. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > http://web.archive.org/web/20080420110800/http://www.atlimp.com/pend2.htm >> > > > >> > > > Get Outlook for Android >> > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > > >> > > ------------------------- >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > ------------------------- >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 28074 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 24 17:13:11 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (peaceroom via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 17:13:11 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 91 Message-ID: Thank you! Mike? Sent from my Samsung device -------- Original message -------- From: via Personal_Submersibles Date: 8/24/17 4:50 PM (GMT-05:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 91 Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: ?? 1. Re: EBA!!! (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) ?? 2. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... ????? (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 12:14:54 -0700 From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Scott, Are you taking orders or deposits for the unit. Any ideas as to the delivery schedule of the units? Any dimensions and or pictures would help for placement in the SeaQuestor would be helpful. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 7:24 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hank, > > I completely understand being so into the project a lot of "what if" > scenarios are never considered. That is one of the reasons, of the 14 > people that work on Pisces VI, one of them does nothing but safety and > writing the operations manual. The Pisces VI used a EBA built by Drager > called the Oxy-SR 30M. It is basically the same thing KISS and Pisces > developed except it only lasted 30 minutes, did not have the ability to > hook up comms, and costs more. > > The Pisces VI has a lot more safety devices built into her, most of which > are over kill for a Psub, but this is an area where I see most of the psubs > lacking (including my own KW350 "Trustworthy"). > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > >? -------Original Message------- > >? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! > >? Sent: Aug 24 '17 05:40 > > > >? Scott, > >? I have to admit that I have not put so much thought into that > >? scenario. I think because I (we) spend so much time and effort > >? installing wiring with fuses and breakers that I have a false sense of > >? security where short circuits are concerned. I am glad you brought it > >? up and I am sure in the future you will be pointing out more risk > >? assessments. We are lucky to have you with us. > >? What did Pisces VI have originally? > >? Hank > > > >? On Wednesday, August 23, 2017, 11:22:46 PM MDT, via > >? Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > >? I guess I should mention some other reasons why this unit is worth it > >? *It has a 3hr breath time > >? *It can be hooked up to u/w comms to keep communications with the > >? surface while still breathing safe air > >? *It is compact (unlike the BioMarine units that a lot of submarines > >? use for their EBAs) > >? *Fully enclosed mask which makes donning way faster than a reg and > >? mask that most BIBS use > >? *All parts are professionally built to the KISS standard. (If you have > >? ever dove a KISS rebreather you will know what I mean > > > >? Probably one of the most important things I learned at my month at sea > >? with Woods Hole and the DSV Alvin is the importance of actually > >? running realistic drills of emergency situations. This was made > >? bluntly obvious to me when we really started talking about it. For > >? example has anyone on psubs actually done a smoke in cabin drill from > >? operational depth? I think if you do you will be shocked. Trying to > >? don a BIBS and mask, ensure passengers get their BIBS and mask donned, > >? locate the issue, isolate the issue, get the submarine on it's way up, > >? communicate with the surface, on the way up (which is probably at a > >? full blow), slow the accent, vent the cabin from the BIBS at a slow > >? rate so you don't blow a viewport or blow the hatch dogs and flood the > >? submarine at 10 to 30 feet likely drowning everyone. Now that you have > >? done this with a drill add the stress level and I think you will see > >? why it is unacceptable. I know there was a comment on a hour of BIBS > >? usage only brought up the p! > >? ressure about 15psi. I would challenge you to do the calcs to see at > >? what pressure a viewport or the hatch fails from internal pressure. I > >? think again you will be shocked. > > > >? I have learned a lot in my career with submarines and I know psubs is > >? committed to safety above all other and I would love to help make it > >? safer. This is the reason why I am pushing this so hard and sharing > >? the discount. If you take nothing else from this e-mail, then I urge > >? everyone to actually run their emergency plans under controlled > >? circumstances then evaluate afterwards and ask, "with the stress level > >? of a real situation, is this a good plan?". > > > >? Thank you, > >? Scott Waters > > > >? >? -------Original Message------- > >? >? From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > >? > >? >? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >? > >? >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! > >? >? Sent: Aug 23 '17 22:43 > >? > > >? >? Brian, > >? >? I am not an expert on rebreathers but > >? >? in a submarine, could you have a lung with full face mask & 3 hoses > >? >? attached to it. One hose pushes on to the submarines O2 outlet, > >? >? & the other 2 to your CO2 scrubber inlet & outlet. Manually control > >? >? the volume of the lung or set up some sort of bellows add system! > >? >? In a 1 ton volume submarine you would have over an hour of > >? breathing > >? >? off a standard regulator & air before you doubled the pressure > >? inside > >? >? the sub anyway. > >? >? I am installing ptfe insulated wiring on the inside of my sub to > >? avoid > >? >? any > >? >? fires with that, but you can't guarantee what's in all the > >? electronics > >? >? you > >? >? put in your sub! > >? >? Alan > >? > > >? >? Sent from my iPad > >? > > >? >? On 24/08/2017, at 3:11 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles > >? >? wrote: > >? > > >? >? > My friend Tom Rose's $100.00 USD rebreather. Unfortunately, a few > >? >? > years ago he died of a heart attack. Tom was a character. > >? >? > > >? >? > I've been contemplating making something similar out of a piece > >? of > >? >? > acrylic pipe, like an old style canister light battery holder, > >? and > >? >? > an MSA mask. Add a stub for O2 addition. Before I got into this > >? >? > psubs hobby I use to build DIY mixed gas rebreathers. > >? >? > > >? >? > > >? > > >? http://web.archive.org/web/20080420110800/http://www. > atlimp.com/pend2.htm > >? >? > > >? >? > Get Outlook for Android > >? > > >? >? > _______________________________________________ > >? >? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >? >? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >? >? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >? > > >? >? ------------------------- > >? >? _______________________________________________ > >? >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >? >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >? >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >? > > >? _______________________________________________ > >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >? ------------------------- > >? _______________________________________________ > >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 15:50:42 -0500 From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Just uploaded to Youtube a bunch of pictues from the 2017 PSUBS Regatta. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3xPUFGvYDM&t=5s Regards Cliff On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Cliff Redus wrote: > Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad > for hosting us last week. You guys? did a magnificent job. This was the > best sub trip of my life! > > I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip and mailed > them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of the 2017 > Psub Regatta. > > I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key points > were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 miles > from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of 93F and > RH of 80%.? Average speed was about 4.5 MPH.? As long as we ran partially > submerged to was hot but fine.? This was a test dive to see if we could get > out deeper.? Water was not clear at this location. The deeper dive on Aug > 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water.? The 7.8 miles from Doug's house > (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so even thought > the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it was a smooth > tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At the second dive site the > water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells.? Could see > the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler.? The tow back was rough. > With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster both in > the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing at > 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours.? I did not > loose my cookies but it was close. > > As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with > launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing. > Towing subs sucks.? All survived but I used up all my on board water and > upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water.? We > were all pretty whipped.? All? in all, it was quite an adventure. > > More latter. > > Cliff > > > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >> 1-3). >> >> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >> >> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >> >> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >> tow line and helped with comms. >> >> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >> >> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >> than I can remember last week. >> >> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >> >> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >> >> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >> accomplishment with the mission. >> >> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >> sub to track straight). >> >> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 91 ***************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 24 17:43:47 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 21:43:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2026003435.2307276.1503611027862@mail.yahoo.com> Looks great! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 24 18:04:20 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 10:04:20 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <79EA4080-6968-4E10-A74F-317A9B454D34@yahoo.com> Thanks Cliff, brings back memories. How was the trim on the R300? Did it change as you moved forward through the water? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/08/2017, at 8:50 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Just uploaded to Youtube a bunch of pictues from the 2017 PSUBS Regatta. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3xPUFGvYDM&t=5s > > > Regards > > Cliff > >> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Cliff Redus wrote: >> Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the best sub trip of my life! >> >> I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of the 2017 Psub Regatta. >> >> I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we ran partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to see if we could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells. Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow back was rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster both in the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies but it was close. >> >> As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing. Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board water and upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water. We were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. >> >> More latter. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >>> 1-3). >>> >>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >>> >>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>> >>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>> tow line and helped with comms. >>> >>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>> >>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >>> than I can remember last week. >>> >>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>> >>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>> >>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>> accomplishment with the mission. >>> >>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >>> sub to track straight). >>> >>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 24 18:09:03 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 18:09:03 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: <79EA4080-6968-4E10-A74F-317A9B454D34@yahoo.com> References: <79EA4080-6968-4E10-A74F-317A9B454D34@yahoo.com> Message-ID: ...and here's a little video. Unfortunately there was almost no footage of Cliff's ocean dives. There was material about the joy rides in the canal, so I picked one person (River) and put together some clips about his dives. https://youtu.be/2xk8ZBUL4QY Best, Alec On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 6:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Cliff, > brings back memories. > How was the trim on the R300? Did it change as you moved forward > through the water? > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 25/08/2017, at 8:50 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Just uploaded to Youtube a bunch of pictues from the 2017 PSUBS Regatta. > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3xPUFGvYDM&t=5s > > > Regards > > Cliff > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Cliff Redus > wrote: > >> Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad >> for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the >> best sub trip of my life! >> >> I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip >> and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of >> the 2017 Psub Regatta. >> >> I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key >> points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 >> miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of >> 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we >> ran partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to >> see if we could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The >> deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 >> miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran >> submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad >> at all as it was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At >> the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft >> swells. Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow >> back was rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller >> coaster both in the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 >> miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around >> 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies but it was close. >> >> As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with >> launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing. >> Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board water and >> upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water. We >> were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. >> >> More latter. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >>> 1-3). >>> >>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >>> >>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>> >>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>> tow line and helped with comms. >>> >>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>> >>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >>> than I can remember last week. >>> >>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>> >>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>> >>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>> accomplishment with the mission. >>> >>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >>> sub to track straight). >>> >>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 24 18:26:14 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 10:26:14 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! In-Reply-To: <20170824142452.26612.qmail@server268.com> References: <20170824052229.31002.qmail@server268.com> <731341999.1274801.1503570888319@mail.yahoo.com> <20170824142452.26612.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: <0acd01d31d28$01ab0980$05011c80$@gmail.com> Hi Scott, Pencil me in but would like to see a photo, size, connections etc. and explanation of it. You make some good points on testing the smoke filled compartment etc. My domes and hatch are all good for 15 psi internal pressure and relief valves are 2 x 2" full flow. Thanks for the opportunity. Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 25 August 2017 2:25 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! Hank, I completely understand being so into the project a lot of "what if" scenarios are never considered. That is one of the reasons, of the 14 people that work on Pisces VI, one of them does nothing but safety and writing the operations manual. The Pisces VI used a EBA built by Drager called the Oxy-SR 30M. It is basically the same thing KISS and Pisces developed except it only lasted 30 minutes, did not have the ability to hook up comms, and costs more. The Pisces VI has a lot more safety devices built into her, most of which are over kill for a Psub, but this is an area where I see most of the psubs lacking (including my own KW350 "Trustworthy"). Thank you, Scott Waters > -------Original Message------- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! > Sent: Aug 24 '17 05:40 > > Scott, > I have to admit that I have not put so much thought into that > scenario. I think because I (we) spend so much time and effort > installing wiring with fuses and breakers that I have a false sense of > security where short circuits are concerned. I am glad you brought it > up and I am sure in the future you will be pointing out more risk > assessments. We are lucky to have you with us. > What did Pisces VI have originally? > Hank > > On Wednesday, August 23, 2017, 11:22:46 PM MDT, via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I guess I should mention some other reasons why this unit is worth it > *It has a 3hr breath time *It can be hooked up to u/w comms to keep > communications with the surface while still breathing safe air *It > is compact (unlike the BioMarine units that a lot of submarines use > for their EBAs) *Fully enclosed mask which makes donning way faster > than a reg and mask that most BIBS use *All parts are professionally > built to the KISS standard. (If you have ever dove a KISS rebreather > you will know what I mean > > Probably one of the most important things I learned at my month at > sea with Woods Hole and the DSV Alvin is the importance of actually > running realistic drills of emergency situations. This was made > bluntly obvious to me when we really started talking about it. For > example has anyone on psubs actually done a smoke in cabin drill from > operational depth? I think if you do you will be shocked. Trying to > don a BIBS and mask, ensure passengers get their BIBS and mask donned, > locate the issue, isolate the issue, get the submarine on it's way up, > communicate with the surface, on the way up (which is probably at a > full blow), slow the accent, vent the cabin from the BIBS at a slow > rate so you don't blow a viewport or blow the hatch dogs and flood the > submarine at 10 to 30 feet likely drowning everyone. Now that you have > done this with a drill add the stress level and I think you will see > why it is unacceptable. I know there was a comment on a hour of BIBS > usage only brought up the p! > ressure about 15psi. I would challenge you to do the calcs to see at > what pressure a viewport or the hatch fails from internal pressure. I > think again you will be shocked. > > I have learned a lot in my career with submarines and I know psubs is > committed to safety above all other and I would love to help make it > safer. This is the reason why I am pushing this so hard and sharing > the discount. If you take nothing else from this e-mail, then I urge > everyone to actually run their emergency plans under controlled > circumstances then evaluate afterwards and ask, "with the stress level > of a real situation, is this a good plan?". > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles > General Discussion > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! > > Sent: Aug 23 '17 22:43 > > > > Brian, > > I am not an expert on rebreathers but > in a submarine, could > you have a lung with full face mask & 3 hoses > attached to it. One > hose pushes on to the submarines O2 outlet, > & the other 2 to your > CO2 scrubber inlet & outlet. Manually control > the volume of the > lung or set up some sort of bellows add system! > > In a 1 ton volume submarine you would have over an hour of > breathing > off a standard regulator & air before you doubled the > pressure inside > the sub anyway. > > I am installing ptfe insulated wiring on the inside of my sub to > avoid > any > fires with that, but you can't guarantee what's in > all the electronics > you > put in your sub! > > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On 24/08/2017, at 3:11 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > > My friend Tom Rose's $100.00 USD rebreather. Unfortunately, a > few > > years ago he died of a heart attack. Tom was a character. > > > > > > I've been contemplating making something similar out of a piece > of > > acrylic pipe, like an old style canister light battery > holder, and > > an MSA mask. Add a stub for O2 addition. Before I > got into this > > psubs hobby I use to build DIY mixed gas > rebreathers. > > > > > > > > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20080420110800/http://www.atlimp.com/pend2. > htm > > > > > > Get Outlook for Android > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > ------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > ------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 24 19:23:35 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 18:23:35 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: <79EA4080-6968-4E10-A74F-317A9B454D34@yahoo.com> References: <79EA4080-6968-4E10-A74F-317A9B454D34@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan, I did not notice any change in trim while submerged. Found out on the initial setup dive that trim was off a little. Trim was perfect for fresh water prior to the trip. I new I needed to add about 110 lbs of ballast to compensate for operating in salt water. I must have stow this slightly forward of CG because boat had a tendency to pitch forward during MBT flooding. This cause trapped air in the aft MBT during setup dives. Found a work around solution for this trip by interrupting the MBT flood event when the boat began to pitch forward, then added air to forward MBT until horizontal then continued the flood until the MBT were completely flooded. Next saltwater dive I will move the salt water ballast a bit more toward the stern. Regards Cliff On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 5:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Cliff, > brings back memories. > How was the trim on the R300? Did it change as you moved forward > through the water? > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 25/08/2017, at 8:50 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Just uploaded to Youtube a bunch of pictues from the 2017 PSUBS Regatta. > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3xPUFGvYDM&t=5s > > > Regards > > Cliff > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Cliff Redus > wrote: > >> Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad >> for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the >> best sub trip of my life! >> >> I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip >> and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of >> the 2017 Psub Regatta. >> >> I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key >> points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 >> miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of >> 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we >> ran partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to >> see if we could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The >> deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 >> miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran >> submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad >> at all as it was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At >> the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft >> swells. Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow >> back was rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller >> coaster both in the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 >> miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around >> 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies but it was close. >> >> As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with >> launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing. >> Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board water and >> upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water. We >> were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. >> >> More latter. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >>> 1-3). >>> >>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >>> >>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>> >>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>> tow line and helped with comms. >>> >>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>> >>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >>> than I can remember last week. >>> >>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>> >>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>> >>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>> accomplishment with the mission. >>> >>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >>> sub to track straight). >>> >>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 24 21:56:38 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 18:56:38 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: <79EA4080-6968-4E10-A74F-317A9B454D34@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Looks like a fun time. Maybe I'll get to join you next time. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 4:23 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alan, I did not notice any change in trim while submerged. Found out on > the initial setup dive that trim was off a little. Trim was perfect for > fresh water prior to the trip. I new I needed to add about 110 lbs of > ballast to compensate for operating in salt water. I must have stow this > slightly forward of CG because boat had a tendency to pitch forward during > MBT flooding. This cause trapped air in the aft MBT during setup dives. > Found a work around solution for this trip by interrupting the MBT flood > event when the boat began to pitch forward, then added air to forward MBT > until horizontal then continued the flood until the MBT were completely > flooded. Next saltwater dive I will move the salt water ballast a bit more > toward the stern. > > > Regards > > Cliff > > > > On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 5:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Thanks Cliff, >> brings back memories. >> How was the trim on the R300? Did it change as you moved forward >> through the water? >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 25/08/2017, at 8:50 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Just uploaded to Youtube a bunch of pictues from the 2017 PSUBS Regatta. >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3xPUFGvYDM&t=5s >> >> >> Regards >> >> Cliff >> >> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Cliff Redus >> wrote: >> >>> Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad >>> for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the >>> best sub trip of my life! >>> >>> I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip >>> and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of >>> the 2017 Psub Regatta. >>> >>> I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key >>> points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 >>> miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of >>> 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we >>> ran partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to >>> see if we could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The >>> deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 >>> miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran >>> submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad >>> at all as it was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At >>> the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft >>> swells. Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow >>> back was rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller >>> coaster both in the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 >>> miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around >>> 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies but it was close. >>> >>> As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel >>> with launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without >>> towing. Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board >>> water and upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of >>> water. We were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. >>> >>> More latter. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >>>> 1-3). >>>> >>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >>>> >>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>>> >>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>>> tow line and helped with comms. >>>> >>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>>> >>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >>>> than I can remember last week. >>>> >>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>>> >>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>>> >>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>>> accomplishment with the mission. >>>> >>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >>>> sub to track straight). >>>> >>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 24 22:27:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 14:27:56 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: <79EA4080-6968-4E10-A74F-317A9B454D34@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Cliff. On my ambient I have solenoid valves for ballasting, with manual by-pass valves. Very easy to adjust. I'm considering going one stage better on my current build by using a gyro from a quad copter to control the release of air from the ballast tanks. Gramme Hawke is using a quad copter gyro system for controlling his 4 thrusters on his Dragon submersible. This would be similar but controlling the ballast system. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/08/2017, at 11:23 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, I did not notice any change in trim while submerged. Found out on the initial setup dive that trim was off a little. Trim was perfect for fresh water prior to the trip. I new I needed to add about 110 lbs of ballast to compensate for operating in salt water. I must have stow this slightly forward of CG because boat had a tendency to pitch forward during MBT flooding. This cause trapped air in the aft MBT during setup dives. Found a work around solution for this trip by interrupting the MBT flood event when the boat began to pitch forward, then added air to forward MBT until horizontal then continued the flood until the MBT were completely flooded. Next saltwater dive I will move the salt water ballast a bit more toward the stern. > > > Regards > > Cliff > > > >> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 5:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Thanks Cliff, >> brings back memories. >> How was the trim on the R300? Did it change as you moved forward >> through the water? >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 25/08/2017, at 8:50 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Just uploaded to Youtube a bunch of pictues from the 2017 PSUBS Regatta. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3xPUFGvYDM&t=5s >>> >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Cliff Redus wrote: >>>> Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the best sub trip of my life! >>>> >>>> I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of the 2017 Psub Regatta. >>>> >>>> I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we ran partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to see if we could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells. Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow back was rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster both in the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies but it was close. >>>> >>>> As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing. Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board water and upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water. We were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. >>>> >>>> More latter. >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >>>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >>>>> 1-3). >>>>> >>>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >>>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >>>>> >>>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>>>> >>>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >>>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >>>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >>>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>>>> tow line and helped with comms. >>>>> >>>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >>>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>>>> >>>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >>>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >>>>> than I can remember last week. >>>>> >>>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >>>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>>>> >>>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >>>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>>>> >>>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >>>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >>>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >>>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >>>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >>>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >>>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >>>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >>>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >>>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >>>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >>>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>>>> accomplishment with the mission. >>>>> >>>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >>>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >>>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >>>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >>>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >>>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >>>>> sub to track straight). >>>>> >>>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >>>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >>>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >>>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >>>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >>>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 25 09:07:48 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 08:07:48 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: <79EA4080-6968-4E10-A74F-317A9B454D34@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Along the same lines, prior to my next dive I am going to add a bit of ladder logic to my PLC that looks at the pitch angle of the boat during a MBT flood event and closes the fwd MBT vent valve if the pitch is 2 degrees down and aft MBT vent if pitch is 2 degrees up. This should help keep the boat horizontal during a MBT flood event. Regards Cliff On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 9:27 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Cliff. > On my ambient I have solenoid valves for ballasting, with manual > by-pass valves. Very easy to adjust. I'm considering going one > stage better on my current build by using a gyro from a quad > copter to control the release of air from the ballast tanks. > Gramme Hawke is using a quad copter gyro system for controlling > his 4 thrusters on his Dragon submersible. This would be similar > but controlling the ballast system. > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 25/08/2017, at 11:23 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, I did not notice any change in trim while submerged. Found out on > the initial setup dive that trim was off a little. Trim was perfect for > fresh water prior to the trip. I new I needed to add about 110 lbs of > ballast to compensate for operating in salt water. I must have stow this > slightly forward of CG because boat had a tendency to pitch forward during > MBT flooding. This cause trapped air in the aft MBT during setup dives. > Found a work around solution for this trip by interrupting the MBT flood > event when the boat began to pitch forward, then added air to forward MBT > until horizontal then continued the flood until the MBT were completely > flooded. Next saltwater dive I will move the salt water ballast a bit more > toward the stern. > > > Regards > > Cliff > > > > On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 5:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Thanks Cliff, >> brings back memories. >> How was the trim on the R300? Did it change as you moved forward >> through the water? >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 25/08/2017, at 8:50 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Just uploaded to Youtube a bunch of pictues from the 2017 PSUBS Regatta. >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3xPUFGvYDM&t=5s >> >> >> Regards >> >> Cliff >> >> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Cliff Redus >> wrote: >> >>> Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad >>> for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the >>> best sub trip of my life! >>> >>> I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip >>> and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of >>> the 2017 Psub Regatta. >>> >>> I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key >>> points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 >>> miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of >>> 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we >>> ran partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to >>> see if we could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The >>> deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 >>> miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran >>> submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad >>> at all as it was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At >>> the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft >>> swells. Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow >>> back was rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller >>> coaster both in the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 >>> miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around >>> 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies but it was close. >>> >>> As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel >>> with launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without >>> towing. Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board >>> water and upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of >>> water. We were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. >>> >>> More latter. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >>>> 1-3). >>>> >>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >>>> >>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>>> >>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>>> tow line and helped with comms. >>>> >>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>>> >>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >>>> than I can remember last week. >>>> >>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>>> >>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>>> >>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>>> accomplishment with the mission. >>>> >>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >>>> sub to track straight). >>>> >>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 25 09:11:28 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 08:11:28 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: <79EA4080-6968-4E10-A74F-317A9B454D34@yahoo.com> Message-ID: David, we missed seeing you guys at the Regatta. Hope you can make the next one. With any luck, Dan Lance will finish his mega, two psub launching catamaran and host the next Psub convention on his boat in the Bahamas! Any progress on SeaQuester? Regards Cliff On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 8:56 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Looks like a fun time. Maybe I'll get to join you next time. > > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > > On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 4:23 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Alan, I did not notice any change in trim while submerged. Found out on >> the initial setup dive that trim was off a little. Trim was perfect for >> fresh water prior to the trip. I new I needed to add about 110 lbs of >> ballast to compensate for operating in salt water. I must have stow this >> slightly forward of CG because boat had a tendency to pitch forward during >> MBT flooding. This cause trapped air in the aft MBT during setup dives. >> Found a work around solution for this trip by interrupting the MBT flood >> event when the boat began to pitch forward, then added air to forward MBT >> until horizontal then continued the flood until the MBT were completely >> flooded. Next saltwater dive I will move the salt water ballast a bit more >> toward the stern. >> >> >> Regards >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 5:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Thanks Cliff, >>> brings back memories. >>> How was the trim on the R300? Did it change as you moved forward >>> through the water? >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 25/08/2017, at 8:50 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Just uploaded to Youtube a bunch of pictues from the 2017 PSUBS >>> Regatta. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3xPUFGvYDM&t=5s >>> >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Cliff Redus >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and >>>> dad for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the >>>> best sub trip of my life! >>>> >>>> I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip >>>> and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of >>>> the 2017 Psub Regatta. >>>> >>>> I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key >>>> points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 >>>> miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of >>>> 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we >>>> ran partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to >>>> see if we could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The >>>> deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 >>>> miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran >>>> submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad >>>> at all as it was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At >>>> the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft >>>> swells. Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow >>>> back was rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller >>>> coaster both in the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 >>>> miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around >>>> 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies but it was close. >>>> >>>> As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel >>>> with launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without >>>> towing. Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board >>>> water and upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of >>>> water. We were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. >>>> >>>> More latter. >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >>>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >>>>> 1-3). >>>>> >>>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >>>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >>>>> >>>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>>>> >>>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >>>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >>>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >>>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>>>> tow line and helped with comms. >>>>> >>>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >>>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>>>> >>>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >>>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >>>>> than I can remember last week. >>>>> >>>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >>>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>>>> >>>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >>>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>>>> >>>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >>>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >>>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >>>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >>>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >>>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >>>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >>>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >>>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >>>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >>>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >>>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>>>> accomplishment with the mission. >>>>> >>>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >>>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >>>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >>>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >>>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >>>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >>>>> sub to track straight). >>>>> >>>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >>>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >>>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >>>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >>>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >>>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 25 10:35:45 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 09:35:45 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?EBA!!!?= In-Reply-To: References: <20170824052229.31002.qmail@server268.com> <731341999.1274801.1503570888319@mail.yahoo.com> <20170824142452.26612.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: <20170825143545.3209.qmail@server268.com> David, I talked with KISS rebreather and they are going to set up a coupon code to get the special pricing. He will get back with me on it here soon. The offer will only be good for about a month or so, then the pricing will be retail. The delivery time looks like 6 weeks. He is getting me dimensions and I will post them on the psubs forum soon. Thank you, Scott Waters > -------Original Message------- > From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! > Sent: Aug 24 '17 14:16 > > Hi Scott, > Are you taking orders or deposits for the unit. Any ideas as to the > delivery schedule of the units? Any dimensions and or pictures would > help for placement in the SeaQuestor would be helpful. > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 7:24 AM, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hank, > > > > I completely understand being so into the project a lot of "what > > if" scenarios are never considered. That is one of the reasons, of > > the 14 people that work on Pisces VI, one of them does nothing but > > safety and writing the operations manual. The Pisces VI used a EBA > > built by Drager called the Oxy-SR 30M. It is basically the same > > thing KISS and Pisces developed except it only lasted 30 minutes, > > did not have the ability to hook up comms, and costs more. > > > > The Pisces VI has a lot more safety devices built into her, most of > > which are over kill for a Psub, but this is an area where I see most > > of the psubs lacking (including my own KW350 "Trustworthy"). > > > > Thank you, > > Scott Waters > > > >> -------Original Message------- > >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > > >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! > > > >> Sent: Aug 24 '17 05:40 > >> > >> Scott, > >> I have to admit that I have not put so much thought into that > >> scenario. I think because I (we) spend so much time and effort > >> installing wiring with fuses and breakers that I have a false > > sense of > >> security where short circuits are concerned. I am glad you > > brought it > >> up and I am sure in the future you will be pointing out more > > risk > >> assessments. We are lucky to have you with us. > >> What did Pisces VI have originally? > >> Hank > >> > >> On Wednesday, August 23, 2017, 11:22:46 PM MDT, via > >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> > >> I guess I should mention some other reasons why this unit is > > worth it > >> *It has a 3hr breath time > >> *It can be hooked up to u/w comms to keep communications with > > the > >> surface while still breathing safe air > >> *It is compact (unlike the BioMarine units that a lot of > > submarines > >> use for their EBAs) > >> *Fully enclosed mask which makes donning way faster than a reg > > and > >> mask that most BIBS use > >> *All parts are professionally built to the KISS standard. (If > > you have > >> ever dove a KISS rebreather you will know what I mean > >> > >> Probably one of the most important things I learned at my month > > at sea > >> with Woods Hole and the DSV Alvin is the importance of actually > >> running realistic drills of emergency situations. This was made > >> bluntly obvious to me when we really started talking about it. > > For > >> example has anyone on psubs actually done a smoke in cabin drill > > from > >> operational depth? I think if you do you will be shocked. Trying > > to > >> don a BIBS and mask, ensure passengers get their BIBS and mask > > donned, > >> locate the issue, isolate the issue, get the submarine on it's > > way up, > >> communicate with the surface, on the way up (which is probably > > at a > >> full blow), slow the accent, vent the cabin from the BIBS at a > > slow > >> rate so you don't blow a viewport or blow the hatch dogs and > > flood the > >> submarine at 10 to 30 feet likely drowning everyone. Now that > > you have > >> done this with a drill add the stress level and I think you will > > see > >> why it is unacceptable. I know there was a comment on a hour of > > BIBS > >> usage only brought up the p! > >> ressure about 15psi. I would challenge you to do the calcs to > > see at > >> what pressure a viewport or the hatch fails from internal > > pressure. I > >> think again you will be shocked. > >> > >> I have learned a lot in my career with submarines and I know > > psubs is > >> committed to safety above all other and I would love to help > > make it > >> safer. This is the reason why I am pushing this so hard and > > sharing > >> the discount. If you take nothing else from this e-mail, then I > > urge > >> everyone to actually run their emergency plans under controlled > >> circumstances then evaluate afterwards and ask, "with the stress > > level > >> of a real situation, is this a good plan?". > >> > >> Thank you, > >> Scott Waters > >> > >> > -------Original Message------- > >> > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > >> > >> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >> > >> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! > >> > Sent: Aug 23 '17 22:43 > >> > > >> > Brian, > >> > I am not an expert on rebreathers but > >> > in a submarine, could you have a lung with full face mask & 3 > > hoses > >> > attached to it. One hose pushes on to the submarines O2 > > outlet, > >> > & the other 2 to your CO2 scrubber inlet & outlet. Manually > > control > >> > the volume of the lung or set up some sort of bellows add > > system! > >> > In a 1 ton volume submarine you would have over an hour of > >> breathing > >> > off a standard regulator & air before you doubled the > > pressure > >> inside > >> > the sub anyway. > >> > I am installing ptfe insulated wiring on the inside of my sub > > to > >> avoid > >> > any > >> > fires with that, but you can't guarantee what's in all the > >> electronics > >> > you > >> > put in your sub! > >> > Alan > >> > > >> > Sent from my iPad > >> > > >> > On 24/08/2017, at 3:11 PM, Brian Hughes via > > Personal_Submersibles > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> > > My friend Tom Rose's $100.00 USD rebreather. Unfortunately, > > a few > >> > > years ago he died of a heart attack. Tom was a character. > >> > > > >> > > I've been contemplating making something similar out of a > > piece > >> of > >> > > acrylic pipe, like an old style canister light battery > > holder, > >> and > >> > > an MSA mask. Add a stub for O2 addition. Before I got into > > this > >> > > psubs hobby I use to build DIY mixed gas rebreathers. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20080420110800/http://www.atlimp.com/pend2.htm > >> > > > >> > > Get Outlook for Android > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > >> > > >> > ------------------------- > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > >> ------------------------- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > ------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 25 11:49:22 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 08:49:22 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: <79EA4080-6968-4E10-A74F-317A9B454D34@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Cliff, The progress has been slow due to finishing building our new home which is nearing final finishes within the next 30 days. The exoskeleton modeling 3d work in Rhino is complete and ready to send to the CNC to cut the molds. The pressure hull design is complete and small parts are being cut via waterjet, and I hope to get the larger hull parts into production in the next 60 days. I may need to build our barn shop first so I have a place to do final assembly. I've been working on my PLC ladder logic and that's been an interesting process. I am ordering the main PUC and a number of modules today so I can see if its working with the components I have so far. I've finished the machining of my first LED light housing which should hit 10k, at least above water it lights the entire neighborhood. Water test to come when I have a free weekend. The full scale section ribs are being cnc cut next week in 3/4" plywood so I can mock up a full scale model for wire harness and plumbing runs fabrication. Lots of small projects slowly coming together. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 6:11 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, we missed seeing you guys at the Regatta. Hope you can make the > next one. With any luck, Dan Lance will finish his mega, two psub launching > catamaran and host the next Psub convention on his boat in the Bahamas! > Any progress on SeaQuester? > > Regards > > Cliff > > On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 8:56 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Looks like a fun time. Maybe I'll get to join you next time. >> >> >> Best Regards, >> David Colombo >> >> 804 College Ave >> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >> (707) 536-1424 >> www.SeaQuestor.com >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 4:23 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Alan, I did not notice any change in trim while submerged. Found out on >>> the initial setup dive that trim was off a little. Trim was perfect for >>> fresh water prior to the trip. I new I needed to add about 110 lbs of >>> ballast to compensate for operating in salt water. I must have stow this >>> slightly forward of CG because boat had a tendency to pitch forward during >>> MBT flooding. This cause trapped air in the aft MBT during setup dives. >>> Found a work around solution for this trip by interrupting the MBT flood >>> event when the boat began to pitch forward, then added air to forward MBT >>> until horizontal then continued the flood until the MBT were completely >>> flooded. Next saltwater dive I will move the salt water ballast a bit more >>> toward the stern. >>> >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 5:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks Cliff, >>>> brings back memories. >>>> How was the trim on the R300? Did it change as you moved forward >>>> through the water? >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On 25/08/2017, at 8:50 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> Just uploaded to Youtube a bunch of pictues from the 2017 PSUBS >>>> Regatta. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3xPUFGvYDM&t=5s >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Cliff Redus >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and >>>>> dad for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the >>>>> best sub trip of my life! >>>>> >>>>> I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip >>>>> and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of >>>>> the 2017 Psub Regatta. >>>>> >>>>> I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key >>>>> points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 >>>>> miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of >>>>> 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we >>>>> ran partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to >>>>> see if we could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The >>>>> deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 >>>>> miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran >>>>> submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad >>>>> at all as it was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At >>>>> the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft >>>>> swells. Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow >>>>> back was rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller >>>>> coaster both in the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 >>>>> miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around >>>>> 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies but it was close. >>>>> >>>>> As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel >>>>> with launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without >>>>> towing. Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board >>>>> water and upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of >>>>> water. We were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. >>>>> >>>>> More latter. >>>>> >>>>> Cliff >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >>>>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >>>>>> 1-3). >>>>>> >>>>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>>>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >>>>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>>>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>>>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >>>>>> >>>>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>>>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>>>>> >>>>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >>>>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>>>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >>>>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >>>>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>>>>> tow line and helped with comms. >>>>>> >>>>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>>>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>>>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >>>>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>>>>> >>>>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>>>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >>>>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>>>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>>>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >>>>>> than I can remember last week. >>>>>> >>>>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >>>>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>>>>> >>>>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >>>>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>>>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>>>>> >>>>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >>>>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>>>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >>>>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >>>>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >>>>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >>>>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >>>>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>>>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >>>>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >>>>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >>>>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>>>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>>>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >>>>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>>>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >>>>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>>>>> accomplishment with the mission. >>>>>> >>>>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >>>>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >>>>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>>>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >>>>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >>>>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >>>>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >>>>>> sub to track straight). >>>>>> >>>>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >>>>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >>>>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>>>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >>>>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >>>>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>>>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>>>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >>>>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 25 11:52:52 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 08:52:52 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! In-Reply-To: <20170825143545.3209.qmail@server268.com> References: <20170824052229.31002.qmail@server268.com> <731341999.1274801.1503570888319@mail.yahoo.com> <20170824142452.26612.qmail@server268.com> <20170825143545.3209.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: Thanks Scott. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 7:35 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, > > I talked with KISS rebreather and they are going to set up a coupon code > to get the special pricing. He will get back with me on it here soon. The > offer will only be good for about a month or so, then the pricing will be > retail. The delivery time looks like 6 weeks. He is getting me dimensions > and I will post them on the psubs forum soon. > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! > > Sent: Aug 24 '17 14:16 > > > > Hi Scott, > > Are you taking orders or deposits for the unit. Any ideas as to the > > delivery schedule of the units? Any dimensions and or pictures would > > help for placement in the SeaQuestor would be helpful. > > > > Best Regards, > > David Colombo > > > > 804 College Ave > > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > > (707) 536-1424 > > www.SeaQuestor.com > > > > On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 7:24 AM, via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > > Hank, > > > > > > I completely understand being so into the project a lot of "what > > > if" scenarios are never considered. That is one of the reasons, of > > > the 14 people that work on Pisces VI, one of them does nothing but > > > safety and writing the operations manual. The Pisces VI used a EBA > > > built by Drager called the Oxy-SR 30M. It is basically the same > > > thing KISS and Pisces developed except it only lasted 30 minutes, > > > did not have the ability to hook up comms, and costs more. > > > > > > The Pisces VI has a lot more safety devices built into her, most of > > > which are over kill for a Psub, but this is an area where I see most > > > of the psubs lacking (including my own KW350 "Trustworthy"). > > > > > > Thank you, > > > Scott Waters > > > > > >> -------Original Message------- > > >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > > > > >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > > > >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! > > > > > >> Sent: Aug 24 '17 05:40 > > >> > > >> Scott, > > >> I have to admit that I have not put so much thought into that > > >> scenario. I think because I (we) spend so much time and effort > > >> installing wiring with fuses and breakers that I have a false > > > sense of > > >> security where short circuits are concerned. I am glad you > > > brought it > > >> up and I am sure in the future you will be pointing out more > > > risk > > >> assessments. We are lucky to have you with us. > > >> What did Pisces VI have originally? > > >> Hank > > >> > > >> On Wednesday, August 23, 2017, 11:22:46 PM MDT, via > > >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >> > > >> I guess I should mention some other reasons why this unit is > > > worth it > > >> *It has a 3hr breath time > > >> *It can be hooked up to u/w comms to keep communications with > > > the > > >> surface while still breathing safe air > > >> *It is compact (unlike the BioMarine units that a lot of > > > submarines > > >> use for their EBAs) > > >> *Fully enclosed mask which makes donning way faster than a reg > > > and > > >> mask that most BIBS use > > >> *All parts are professionally built to the KISS standard. (If > > > you have > > >> ever dove a KISS rebreather you will know what I mean > > >> > > >> Probably one of the most important things I learned at my month > > > at sea > > >> with Woods Hole and the DSV Alvin is the importance of actually > > >> running realistic drills of emergency situations. This was made > > >> bluntly obvious to me when we really started talking about it. > > > For > > >> example has anyone on psubs actually done a smoke in cabin drill > > > from > > >> operational depth? I think if you do you will be shocked. Trying > > > to > > >> don a BIBS and mask, ensure passengers get their BIBS and mask > > > donned, > > >> locate the issue, isolate the issue, get the submarine on it's > > > way up, > > >> communicate with the surface, on the way up (which is probably > > > at a > > >> full blow), slow the accent, vent the cabin from the BIBS at a > > > slow > > >> rate so you don't blow a viewport or blow the hatch dogs and > > > flood the > > >> submarine at 10 to 30 feet likely drowning everyone. Now that > > > you have > > >> done this with a drill add the stress level and I think you will > > > see > > >> why it is unacceptable. I know there was a comment on a hour of > > > BIBS > > >> usage only brought up the p! > > >> ressure about 15psi. I would challenge you to do the calcs to > > > see at > > >> what pressure a viewport or the hatch fails from internal > > > pressure. I > > >> think again you will be shocked. > > >> > > >> I have learned a lot in my career with submarines and I know > > > psubs is > > >> committed to safety above all other and I would love to help > > > make it > > >> safer. This is the reason why I am pushing this so hard and > > > sharing > > >> the discount. If you take nothing else from this e-mail, then I > > > urge > > >> everyone to actually run their emergency plans under controlled > > >> circumstances then evaluate afterwards and ask, "with the stress > > > level > > >> of a real situation, is this a good plan?". > > >> > > >> Thank you, > > >> Scott Waters > > >> > > >> > -------Original Message------- > > >> > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > >> > > >> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > >> > > >> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! > > >> > Sent: Aug 23 '17 22:43 > > >> > > > >> > Brian, > > >> > I am not an expert on rebreathers but > > >> > in a submarine, could you have a lung with full face mask & 3 > > > hoses > > >> > attached to it. One hose pushes on to the submarines O2 > > > outlet, > > >> > & the other 2 to your CO2 scrubber inlet & outlet. Manually > > > control > > >> > the volume of the lung or set up some sort of bellows add > > > system! > > >> > In a 1 ton volume submarine you would have over an hour of > > >> breathing > > >> > off a standard regulator & air before you doubled the > > > pressure > > >> inside > > >> > the sub anyway. > > >> > I am installing ptfe insulated wiring on the inside of my sub > > > to > > >> avoid > > >> > any > > >> > fires with that, but you can't guarantee what's in all the > > >> electronics > > >> > you > > >> > put in your sub! > > >> > Alan > > >> > > > >> > Sent from my iPad > > >> > > > >> > On 24/08/2017, at 3:11 PM, Brian Hughes via > > > Personal_Submersibles > > >> > wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > My friend Tom Rose's $100.00 USD rebreather. Unfortunately, > > > a few > > >> > > years ago he died of a heart attack. Tom was a character. > > >> > > > > >> > > I've been contemplating making something similar out of a > > > piece > > >> of > > >> > > acrylic pipe, like an old style canister light battery > > > holder, > > >> and > > >> > > an MSA mask. Add a stub for O2 addition. Before I got into > > > this > > >> > > psubs hobby I use to build DIY mixed gas rebreathers. > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20080420110800/http://www. > atlimp.com/pend2.htm > > >> > > > > >> > > Get Outlook for Android > > >> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > >> > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >> > > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >> > > >> > > > >> > ------------------------- > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >> > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >> > > >> ------------------------- > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > ------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 25 12:04:11 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 16:04:11 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: <79EA4080-6968-4E10-A74F-317A9B454D34@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hey David Do you have any photos of your light housings? Love to see them if so Rick On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 8:50 AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Cliff, > The progress has been slow due to finishing building our new home which is > nearing final finishes within the next 30 days. The exoskeleton modeling 3d > work in Rhino is complete and ready to send to the CNC to cut the molds. > The pressure hull design is complete and small parts are being cut via > waterjet, and I hope to get the larger hull parts into production in the > next 60 days. I may need to build our barn shop first so I have a place to > do final assembly. I've been working on my PLC ladder logic and that's > been an interesting process. I am ordering the main PUC and a number of > modules today so I can see if its working with the components I have so > far. I've finished the machining of my first LED light housing which > should hit 10k, at least above water it lights the entire neighborhood. > Water test to come when I have a free weekend. The full scale section ribs > are being cnc cut next week in 3/4" plywood so I can mock up a full scale > model for wire harness and plumbing runs fabrication. Lots of small > projects slowly coming together. > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > > On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 6:11 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> David, we missed seeing you guys at the Regatta. Hope you can make the >> next one. With any luck, Dan Lance will finish his mega, two psub launching >> catamaran and host the next Psub convention on his boat in the Bahamas! >> Any progress on SeaQuester? >> >> Regards >> >> Cliff >> >> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 8:56 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >>> Looks like a fun time. Maybe I'll get to join you next time. >>> >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> David Colombo >>> >>> 804 College Ave >>> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >>> (707) 536-1424 >>> www.SeaQuestor.com >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 4:23 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Alan, I did not notice any change in trim while submerged. Found out >>>> on the initial setup dive that trim was off a little. Trim was perfect >>>> for fresh water prior to the trip. I new I needed to add about 110 lbs of >>>> ballast to compensate for operating in salt water. I must have stow this >>>> slightly forward of CG because boat had a tendency to pitch forward during >>>> MBT flooding. This cause trapped air in the aft MBT during setup dives. >>>> Found a work around solution for this trip by interrupting the MBT flood >>>> event when the boat began to pitch forward, then added air to forward MBT >>>> until horizontal then continued the flood until the MBT were completely >>>> flooded. Next saltwater dive I will move the salt water ballast a bit more >>>> toward the stern. >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 5:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks Cliff, >>>>> brings back memories. >>>>> How was the trim on the R300? Did it change as you moved forward >>>>> through the water? >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>> On 25/08/2017, at 8:50 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Just uploaded to Youtube a bunch of pictues from the 2017 PSUBS >>>>> Regatta. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3xPUFGvYDM&t=5s >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> >>>>> Cliff >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Cliff Redus >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and >>>>>> dad for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the >>>>>> best sub trip of my life! >>>>>> >>>>>> I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip >>>>>> and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of >>>>>> the 2017 Psub Regatta. >>>>>> >>>>>> I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key >>>>>> points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 >>>>>> miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of >>>>>> 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we >>>>>> ran partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to >>>>>> see if we could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The >>>>>> deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 >>>>>> miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran >>>>>> submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad >>>>>> at all as it was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At >>>>>> the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft >>>>>> swells. Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow >>>>>> back was rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller >>>>>> coaster both in the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 >>>>>> miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around >>>>>> 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies but it was close. >>>>>> >>>>>> As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel >>>>>> with launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without >>>>>> towing. Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board >>>>>> water and upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of >>>>>> water. We were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. >>>>>> >>>>>> More latter. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cliff >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the >>>>>>> 4-day >>>>>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >>>>>>> 1-3). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>>>>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was >>>>>>> unfortunate >>>>>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>>>>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>>>>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic >>>>>>> diving. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>>>>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation >>>>>>> diver >>>>>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>>>>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >>>>>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have >>>>>>> chatted >>>>>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>>>>>> tow line and helped with comms. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>>>>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>>>>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >>>>>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>>>>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >>>>>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>>>>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>>>>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned >>>>>>> more >>>>>>> than I can remember last week. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >>>>>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >>>>>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>>>>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >>>>>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>>>>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we >>>>>>> did >>>>>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot >>>>>>> about >>>>>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the >>>>>>> tow >>>>>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >>>>>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to >>>>>>> OTS >>>>>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>>>>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >>>>>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >>>>>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent >>>>>>> about >>>>>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>>>>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>>>>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >>>>>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>>>>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I >>>>>>> think >>>>>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>>>>>> accomplishment with the mission. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >>>>>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >>>>>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>>>>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >>>>>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >>>>>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >>>>>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >>>>>>> sub to track straight). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >>>>>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>>>>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >>>>>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >>>>>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>>>>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>>>>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >>>>>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 25 12:04:18 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 16:04:18 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! In-Reply-To: References: <20170824052229.31002.qmail@server268.com> <731341999.1274801.1503570888319@mail.yahoo.com> <20170824142452.26612.qmail@server268.com> <20170825143545.3209.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: Dan Lance Can you contact me off list? "Satwelder at gmail.com" Thanks Rick On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 8:53 AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Scott. > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > > On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 7:35 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> David, >> >> I talked with KISS rebreather and they are going to set up a coupon code >> to get the special pricing. He will get back with me on it here soon. The >> offer will only be good for about a month or so, then the pricing will be >> retail. The delivery time looks like 6 weeks. He is getting me dimensions >> and I will post them on the psubs forum soon. >> >> Thank you, >> Scott Waters >> >> > -------Original Message------- >> > From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! >> > Sent: Aug 24 '17 14:16 >> > >> > Hi Scott, >> > Are you taking orders or deposits for the unit. Any ideas as to the >> > delivery schedule of the units? Any dimensions and or pictures would >> > help for placement in the SeaQuestor would be helpful. >> > >> > Best Regards, >> > David Colombo >> > >> > 804 College Ave >> > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >> > (707) 536-1424 >> > www.SeaQuestor.com >> > >> > On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 7:24 AM, via Personal_Submersibles >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Hank, >> > > >> > > I completely understand being so into the project a lot of "what >> > > if" scenarios are never considered. That is one of the reasons, of >> > > the 14 people that work on Pisces VI, one of them does nothing but >> > > safety and writing the operations manual. The Pisces VI used a EBA >> > > built by Drager called the Oxy-SR 30M. It is basically the same >> > > thing KISS and Pisces developed except it only lasted 30 minutes, >> > > did not have the ability to hook up comms, and costs more. >> > > >> > > The Pisces VI has a lot more safety devices built into her, most of >> > > which are over kill for a Psub, but this is an area where I see most >> > > of the psubs lacking (including my own KW350 "Trustworthy"). >> > > >> > > Thank you, >> > > Scott Waters >> > > >> > >> -------Original Message------- >> > >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> > > >> > >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> > > >> > >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! >> > > >> > >> Sent: Aug 24 '17 05:40 >> > >> >> > >> Scott, >> > >> I have to admit that I have not put so much thought into that >> > >> scenario. I think because I (we) spend so much time and effort >> > >> installing wiring with fuses and breakers that I have a false >> > > sense of >> > >> security where short circuits are concerned. I am glad you >> > > brought it >> > >> up and I am sure in the future you will be pointing out more >> > > risk >> > >> assessments. We are lucky to have you with us. >> > >> What did Pisces VI have originally? >> > >> Hank >> > >> >> > >> On Wednesday, August 23, 2017, 11:22:46 PM MDT, via >> > >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > >> >> > >> I guess I should mention some other reasons why this unit is >> > > worth it >> > >> *It has a 3hr breath time >> > >> *It can be hooked up to u/w comms to keep communications with >> > > the >> > >> surface while still breathing safe air >> > >> *It is compact (unlike the BioMarine units that a lot of >> > > submarines >> > >> use for their EBAs) >> > >> *Fully enclosed mask which makes donning way faster than a reg >> > > and >> > >> mask that most BIBS use >> > >> *All parts are professionally built to the KISS standard. (If >> > > you have >> > >> ever dove a KISS rebreather you will know what I mean >> > >> >> > >> Probably one of the most important things I learned at my month >> > > at sea >> > >> with Woods Hole and the DSV Alvin is the importance of actually >> > >> running realistic drills of emergency situations. This was made >> > >> bluntly obvious to me when we really started talking about it. >> > > For >> > >> example has anyone on psubs actually done a smoke in cabin drill >> > > from >> > >> operational depth? I think if you do you will be shocked. Trying >> > > to >> > >> don a BIBS and mask, ensure passengers get their BIBS and mask >> > > donned, >> > >> locate the issue, isolate the issue, get the submarine on it's >> > > way up, >> > >> communicate with the surface, on the way up (which is probably >> > > at a >> > >> full blow), slow the accent, vent the cabin from the BIBS at a >> > > slow >> > >> rate so you don't blow a viewport or blow the hatch dogs and >> > > flood the >> > >> submarine at 10 to 30 feet likely drowning everyone. Now that >> > > you have >> > >> done this with a drill add the stress level and I think you will >> > > see >> > >> why it is unacceptable. I know there was a comment on a hour of >> > > BIBS >> > >> usage only brought up the p! >> > >> ressure about 15psi. I would challenge you to do the calcs to >> > > see at >> > >> what pressure a viewport or the hatch fails from internal >> > > pressure. I >> > >> think again you will be shocked. >> > >> >> > >> I have learned a lot in my career with submarines and I know >> > > psubs is >> > >> committed to safety above all other and I would love to help >> > > make it >> > >> safer. This is the reason why I am pushing this so hard and >> > > sharing >> > >> the discount. If you take nothing else from this e-mail, then I >> > > urge >> > >> everyone to actually run their emergency plans under controlled >> > >> circumstances then evaluate afterwards and ask, "with the stress >> > > level >> > >> of a real situation, is this a good plan?". >> > >> >> > >> Thank you, >> > >> Scott Waters >> > >> >> > >> > -------Original Message------- >> > >> > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> > >> >> > >> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> > >> >> > >> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! >> > >> > Sent: Aug 23 '17 22:43 >> > >> > >> > >> > Brian, >> > >> > I am not an expert on rebreathers but >> > >> > in a submarine, could you have a lung with full face mask & 3 >> > > hoses >> > >> > attached to it. One hose pushes on to the submarines O2 >> > > outlet, >> > >> > & the other 2 to your CO2 scrubber inlet & outlet. Manually >> > > control >> > >> > the volume of the lung or set up some sort of bellows add >> > > system! >> > >> > In a 1 ton volume submarine you would have over an hour of >> > >> breathing >> > >> > off a standard regulator & air before you doubled the >> > > pressure >> > >> inside >> > >> > the sub anyway. >> > >> > I am installing ptfe insulated wiring on the inside of my sub >> > > to >> > >> avoid >> > >> > any >> > >> > fires with that, but you can't guarantee what's in all the >> > >> electronics >> > >> > you >> > >> > put in your sub! >> > >> > Alan >> > >> > >> > >> > Sent from my iPad >> > >> > >> > >> > On 24/08/2017, at 3:11 PM, Brian Hughes via >> > > Personal_Submersibles >> > >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > > My friend Tom Rose's $100.00 USD rebreather. Unfortunately, >> > > a few >> > >> > > years ago he died of a heart attack. Tom was a character. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > I've been contemplating making something similar out of a >> > > piece >> > >> of >> > >> > > acrylic pipe, like an old style canister light battery >> > > holder, >> > >> and >> > >> > > an MSA mask. Add a stub for O2 addition. Before I got into >> > > this >> > >> > > psubs hobby I use to build DIY mixed gas rebreathers. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> http://web.archive.org/web/20080420110800/http://www.atlimp.com/pend2.htm >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Get Outlook for Android >> > >> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > >> > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > >> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > >> > > >> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------- >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > >> > >> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> >> > >> ------------------------- >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > ------------------------- >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 25 18:23:51 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2017 10:23:51 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <71372171.1548859.1503549260553@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20170823182809.F1B74368@m0117567.ppops.net> <0C9CECD4-3A31-46AF-A311-463E1E27D634@yahoo.com> <71372171.1548859.1503549260553@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Now they are re-opening a 1986 murder case where a 22 year old Japanese tourist's dismembered body was found in a similar location to that of Kim Wall. Peter would have had to be about 15 at the time! Getting more bizarre! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 24/08/2017, at 4:34 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Love your sense of humor Alan. :) > > > > > On Wednesday, August 23, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Yes, he made submarines! > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 24/08/2017, at 1:28 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Truly bizarre ! Were there any clues that he was deranged ? >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus >> Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 20:06:02 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Hi Alan, >> >> I'm not sure Madsen has to say anything more. From what I've read, Danish legal scholars believe there is enough circumstantial evidence to convict. I also read that murder convictions rarely result in more than 16 years of incarceration because of their belief in rehabilitation. Anyone want to sign up for a midnight cruise with Madsen when he gets out? >> >> Jon >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 25 18:23:28 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 22:23:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] speed controllers References: <742139424.2551123.1503699808245.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <742139424.2551123.1503699808245@mail.yahoo.com> Well I learned another lesson today. ?I went for a very unexpected dive in Gamma today and both new speed controllers quit. ?Don't buy electronic parts from China ! Ever! ?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 25 19:15:54 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 17:15:54 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] speed controllers In-Reply-To: lN6Ldxq6pvNWZlN6MdGZea References: <742139424.2551123.1503699808245.ref@mail.yahoo.com> lN6Ldxq6pvNWZlN6MdGZea Message-ID: I read a book about manufacturing in China which I found quite interesting: "Poorly Made in China" by Paul Midler. Gives some of the background explanation behind the lack of quality control. Sean On August 25, 2017 4:23:28 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Well I learned another lesson today. ?I went for a very unexpected dive >in Gamma today and both new speed controllers quit. ?Don't buy >electronic parts from China ! Ever! ?Hank > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 25 19:45:06 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2017 11:45:06 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] speed controllers In-Reply-To: References: <742139424.2551123.1503699808245.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9776AD29-BDAC-4310-B5D8-F0B65CA88369@yahoo.com> They should have DC brushless controllers down to a fine art. There are so many electric bikes & rickshaws over there. Also they are so dominant in the electric RC market that requires reliable DC controllers. Maybe Hank got some backyard manufacturer using parts from old TVs. I was told to over size my controller by about double. Buy a 3000W controller for a 1500W motor. Also the manufacturers get nervous when you talk about long wire runs from your battery bank to controller. I am not totally clued up on this, but have heard it said to add capacitors along the wire run & twist the wires together to avoid inrush current from the break down of the electric field in the wiring. The PWM would cause a constant building up & breaking down of the magnetic field & a consequent surging of electricity into the input capacitors. I guess a way around this would be to place the controller as close as possible to the battery source & run long runs of wire to the speed control potentiometer & on switch. These days the controllers have all sorts of parameters you have to program in to them when they arrive. Gets very confusing! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 26/08/2017, at 11:15 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I read a book about manufacturing in China which I found quite interesting: > > "Poorly Made in China" by Paul Midler. > > Gives some of the background explanation behind the lack of quality control. > > Sean > > >> On August 25, 2017 4:23:28 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Well I learned another lesson today. I went for a very unexpected dive in Gamma today and both new speed controllers quit. Don't buy electronic parts from China ! Ever! >> Hank >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 25 19:52:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 23:52:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] speed controllers In-Reply-To: <9776AD29-BDAC-4310-B5D8-F0B65CA88369@yahoo.com> References: <742139424.2551123.1503699808245.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <9776AD29-BDAC-4310-B5D8-F0B65CA88369@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1435105332.2620914.1503705169751@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I am going back to switches for now and will get proper controllers over the winter. ?Lucky for me I have back up travel motors that saved the day.Also my inflatable is an absolute dream! ?can bump into the sub all you want. ?Now I just hit the brakes and Gamma drifts off untethered off the trailer. Then I park the truck and hop in the inflatable to retrieve Gamma. ?Nice!Hank On Friday, August 25, 2017, 5:45:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: They should have DC brushless controllers down to a fine art.There are so many electric bikes & rickshaws over there.Also they are so dominant in the electric RC market that requires?reliable DC controllers.Maybe Hank got some backyard manufacturer using parts fromold TVs.I was told to over size my controller by about double.Buy a 3000W controller for a 1500W motor.Also the manufacturers get nervous when you talk about longwire runs from your battery bank to controller. I am not totallyclued up on this, but have heard it said to add capacitors alongthe wire run & twist the wires together to avoid inrush currentfrom the break down of the electric field in the wiring. The PWMwould cause a constant building up & breaking down of the magneticfield & a ?consequent surging of electricity into the input capacitors.I guess a way around this would be to place the controller as closeas possible to the battery source & run long runs of wire to the speedcontrol potentiometer & on switch.These days the controllers have all sorts of parameters you have toprogram in to them when they arrive. Gets very confusing!Alan Sent from my iPad On 26/08/2017, at 11:15 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I read a book about manufacturing in China which I found quite interesting: "Poorly Made in China" by Paul Midler. Gives some of the background explanation behind the lack of quality control. Sean On August 25, 2017 4:23:28 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Well I learned another lesson today. ?I went for a very unexpected dive in Gamma today and both new speed controllers quit. ?Don't buy electronic parts from China ! Ever! ?Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 25 20:02:04 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2017 02:02:04 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] speed controllers In-Reply-To: <742139424.2551123.1503699808245@mail.yahoo.com> References: <742139424.2551123.1503699808245.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <742139424.2551123.1503699808245@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <31EB4AF9-3288-486D-ACC5-308619E6589D@snyderemail.com> Hi Hank Part of that story is missing! Unexpected dive? Hopefully there was no reporter on board! Best regards Greg > On Aug 26, 2017, at 12:23 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Well I learned another lesson today. I went for a very unexpected dive in Gamma today and both new speed controllers quit. Don't buy electronic parts from China ! Ever! > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 25 20:18:13 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2017 12:18:13 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] speed controllers In-Reply-To: <1435105332.2620914.1503705169751@mail.yahoo.com> References: <742139424.2551123.1503699808245.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <9776AD29-BDAC-4310-B5D8-F0B65CA88369@yahoo.com> <1435105332.2620914.1503705169751@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <184D508B-8BCE-44E7-B683-B176D7167144@yahoo.com> Hank, Yes it would be great for boarding the sub in rough weather. You only need to look at the treatment they can take white water rafting. Have owned a couple & used them in surf. I have a Chinese Kelley controller, I think Hugh does too. They are economical & have a good reputation. I have had good customer support when I have asked questions. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 26/08/2017, at 11:52 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I am going back to switches for now and will get proper controllers over the winter. Lucky for me I have back up travel motors that saved the day. > Also my inflatable is an absolute dream! can bump into the sub all you want. Now I just hit the brakes and Gamma drifts off untethered off the trailer. Then I park the truck and hop in the inflatable to retrieve Gamma. Nice! > Hank > > > On Friday, August 25, 2017, 5:45:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > They should have DC brushless controllers down to a fine art. > There are so many electric bikes & rickshaws over there. > Also they are so dominant in the electric RC market that requires > reliable DC controllers. > Maybe Hank got some backyard manufacturer using parts from > old TVs. > I was told to over size my controller by about double. > Buy a 3000W controller for a 1500W motor. > Also the manufacturers get nervous when you talk about long > wire runs from your battery bank to controller. I am not totally > clued up on this, but have heard it said to add capacitors along > the wire run & twist the wires together to avoid inrush current > from the break down of the electric field in the wiring. The PWM > would cause a constant building up & breaking down of the magnetic > field & a consequent surging of electricity into the input capacitors. > I guess a way around this would be to place the controller as close > as possible to the battery source & run long runs of wire to the speed > control potentiometer & on switch. > These days the controllers have all sorts of parameters you have to > program in to them when they arrive. Gets very confusing! > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 26/08/2017, at 11:15 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> I read a book about manufacturing in China which I found quite interesting: >> >> "Poorly Made in China" by Paul Midler. >> >> Gives some of the background explanation behind the lack of quality control. >> >> Sean >> >> >> On August 25, 2017 4:23:28 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Well I learned another lesson today. I went for a very unexpected dive in Gamma today and both new speed controllers quit. Don't buy electronic parts from China ! Ever! >> Hank >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 25 20:19:10 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 19:19:10 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] speed controllers In-Reply-To: <1435105332.2620914.1503705169751@mail.yahoo.com> References: <742139424.2551123.1503699808245.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <9776AD29-BDAC-4310-B5D8-F0B65CA88369@yahoo.com> <1435105332.2620914.1503705169751@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <466D7B4B-FBC3-435D-A378-DEAED120D0C1@gmail.com> Any pictures or video? Cliff Redus > On Aug 25, 2017, at 6:52 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I am going back to switches for now and will get proper controllers over the winter. Lucky for me I have back up travel motors that saved the day. > Also my inflatable is an absolute dream! can bump into the sub all you want. Now I just hit the brakes and Gamma drifts off untethered off the trailer. Then I park the truck and hop in the inflatable to retrieve Gamma. Nice! > Hank > > > On Friday, August 25, 2017, 5:45:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > They should have DC brushless controllers down to a fine art. > There are so many electric bikes & rickshaws over there. > Also they are so dominant in the electric RC market that requires > reliable DC controllers. > Maybe Hank got some backyard manufacturer using parts from > old TVs. > I was told to over size my controller by about double. > Buy a 3000W controller for a 1500W motor. > Also the manufacturers get nervous when you talk about long > wire runs from your battery bank to controller. I am not totally > clued up on this, but have heard it said to add capacitors along > the wire run & twist the wires together to avoid inrush current > from the break down of the electric field in the wiring. The PWM > would cause a constant building up & breaking down of the magnetic > field & a consequent surging of electricity into the input capacitors. > I guess a way around this would be to place the controller as close > as possible to the battery source & run long runs of wire to the speed > control potentiometer & on switch. > These days the controllers have all sorts of parameters you have to > program in to them when they arrive. Gets very confusing! > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 26/08/2017, at 11:15 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> I read a book about manufacturing in China which I found quite interesting: >> >> "Poorly Made in China" by Paul Midler. >> >> Gives some of the background explanation behind the lack of quality control. >> >> Sean >> >> >> On August 25, 2017 4:23:28 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Well I learned another lesson today. I went for a very unexpected dive in Gamma today and both new speed controllers quit. Don't buy electronic parts from China ! Ever! >> Hank >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 25 20:22:00 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ray Keefer via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2017 00:22:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: References: <20170823182809.F1B74368@m0117567.ppops.net> <0C9CECD4-3A31-46AF-A311-463E1E27D634@yahoo.com> <71372171.1548859.1503549260553@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1669784804.103789.1503706920521@mail.yahoo.com> Howdy, I read about this event in the main stream media and thought PSUBS would have the straight scoop. Don't seem to. I won't comment on the case. There are people whose job is chasing down the truth and in the end they will report out. I will comment on the public image. So far PSUBS hasn't been dragged into this. Which is a good thing. The public comments are of two kinds. First is sexual innuendo regarding submarines. To be expected since most internet users are morons. Secondly is how unsafe "homemade" submarines are. Some are and some are not. I would rate Peter's submarines safe. Apparently the good work by you PSUBers hasn't reached to general public. Maybe that is a good thing since most internet users are morons. Regards,Ray From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, August 25, 2017 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus Now they are re-opening a 1986 murder case where a 22 year old?Japanese tourist's dismembered body was found in a similar locationto that of Kim Wall.?Peter would have had to be about 15 at the time!Getting more bizarre!Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/08/2017, at 4:34 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Love your sense of humor Alan. ?:) On Wednesday, August 23, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, he made submarines!Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/08/2017, at 1:28 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Truly bizarre !?? Were there any clues that he was deranged ? ?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 20:06:02 +0000 (UTC) Hi Alan, I'm not sure Madsen has to say anything more. ?From what I've read, Danish legal scholars believe there is enough circumstantial evidence to convict. ?I also read that murder convictions rarely result in more than 16 years of incarceration because of their belief in rehabilitation. ?Anyone want to sign up for a midnight cruise with Madsen when he gets out? Jon _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 25 20:27:23 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2017 00:27:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] speed controllers In-Reply-To: <466D7B4B-FBC3-435D-A378-DEAED120D0C1@gmail.com> References: <742139424.2551123.1503699808245.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <9776AD29-BDAC-4310-B5D8-F0B65CA88369@yahoo.com> <1435105332.2620914.1503705169751@mail.yahoo.com> <466D7B4B-FBC3-435D-A378-DEAED120D0C1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <512465160.2607887.1503707243583@mail.yahoo.com> My dive today was unexpected because I am supposed to be working on renovating the house and shop that we are moving into next summer. ?I have decided that the house can wait because submarine adventures are more important. So there, lol. ?I did not take pictures or video but it was picturesque with a flat ?sunny lake and great visibility ? because it has not rained in about two months. ?Hank On Friday, August 25, 2017, 6:19:31 PM MDT, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Any pictures or video? Cliff Redus On Aug 25, 2017, at 6:52 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I am going back to switches for now and will get proper controllers over the winter. ?Lucky for me I have back up travel motors that saved the day.Also my inflatable is an absolute dream! ?can bump into the sub all you want. ?Now I just hit the brakes and Gamma drifts off untethered off the trailer. Then I park the truck and hop in the inflatable to retrieve Gamma. ?Nice!Hank On Friday, August 25, 2017, 5:45:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: They should have DC brushless controllers down to a fine art.There are so many electric bikes & rickshaws over there.Also they are so dominant in the electric RC market that requires?reliable DC controllers.Maybe Hank got some backyard manufacturer using parts fromold TVs.I was told to over size my controller by about double.Buy a 3000W controller for a 1500W motor.Also the manufacturers get nervous when you talk about longwire runs from your battery bank to controller. I am not totallyclued up on this, but have heard it said to add capacitors alongthe wire run & twist the wires together to avoid inrush currentfrom the break down of the electric field in the wiring. The PWMwould cause a constant building up & breaking down of the magneticfield & a ?consequent surging of electricity into the input capacitors.I guess a way around this would be to place the controller as closeas possible to the battery source & run long runs of wire to the speedcontrol potentiometer & on switch.These days the controllers have all sorts of parameters you have toprogram in to them when they arrive. Gets very confusing!Alan Sent from my iPad On 26/08/2017, at 11:15 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I read a book about manufacturing in China which I found quite interesting: "Poorly Made in China" by Paul Midler. Gives some of the background explanation behind the lack of quality control. Sean On August 25, 2017 4:23:28 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Well I learned another lesson today. ?I went for a very unexpected dive in Gamma today and both new speed controllers quit. ?Don't buy electronic parts from China ! Ever! ?Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 25 21:43:22 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 18:43:22 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] speed controllers In-Reply-To: <512465160.2607887.1503707243583@mail.yahoo.com> References: <742139424.2551123.1503699808245.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <9776AD29-BDAC-4310-B5D8-F0B65CA88369@yahoo.com> <1435105332.2620914.1503705169751@mail.yahoo.com> <466D7B4B-FBC3-435D-A378-DEAED120D0C1@gmail.com> <512465160.2607887.1503707243583@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, You don't need any evidence for the wife to see that you were not working on the house, but you should at least take photos to share with the rest of us subbers who are still working on our houses because our wives are watching us. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 5:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > My dive today was unexpected because I am supposed to be working on > renovating the house and shop that we are moving into next summer. I have > decided that the house can wait because submarine adventures are more > important. So there, lol. I did not take pictures or video but it was > picturesque with a flat sunny lake and great visibility because it has > not rained in about two months. > Hank > > > On Friday, August 25, 2017, 6:19:31 PM MDT, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Any pictures or video? > > > Cliff Redus > > On Aug 25, 2017, at 6:52 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > I am going back to switches for now and will get proper controllers over > the winter. Lucky for me I have back up travel motors that saved the day. > Also my inflatable is an absolute dream! can bump into the sub all you > want. Now I just hit the brakes and Gamma drifts off untethered off the > trailer. Then I park the truck and hop in the inflatable to retrieve > Gamma. Nice! > Hank > > > On Friday, August 25, 2017, 5:45:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > They should have DC brushless controllers down to a fine art. > There are so many electric bikes & rickshaws over there. > Also they are so dominant in the electric RC market that requires > reliable DC controllers. > Maybe Hank got some backyard manufacturer using parts from > old TVs. > I was told to over size my controller by about double. > Buy a 3000W controller for a 1500W motor. > Also the manufacturers get nervous when you talk about long > wire runs from your battery bank to controller. I am not totally > clued up on this, but have heard it said to add capacitors along > the wire run & twist the wires together to avoid inrush current > from the break down of the electric field in the wiring. The PWM > would cause a constant building up & breaking down of the magnetic > field & a consequent surging of electricity into the input capacitors. > I guess a way around this would be to place the controller as close > as possible to the battery source & run long runs of wire to the speed > control potentiometer & on switch. > These days the controllers have all sorts of parameters you have to > program in to them when they arrive. Gets very confusing! > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 26/08/2017, at 11:15 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I read a book about manufacturing in China which I found quite interesting: > > "Poorly Made in China" by Paul Midler. > > Gives some of the background explanation behind the lack of quality > control. > > Sean > > > On August 25, 2017 4:23:28 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Well I learned another lesson today. I went for a very unexpected dive in > Gamma today and both new speed controllers quit. Don't buy electronic > parts from China ! Ever! > Hank > > ------------------------------ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 25 23:14:19 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2017 03:14:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] speed controllers In-Reply-To: References: <742139424.2551123.1503699808245.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <9776AD29-BDAC-4310-B5D8-F0B65CA88369@yahoo.com> <1435105332.2620914.1503705169751@mail.yahoo.com> <466D7B4B-FBC3-435D-A378-DEAED120D0C1@gmail.com> <512465160.2607887.1503707243583@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <831153869.2698871.1503717259442@mail.yahoo.com> David,Honestly I thought I was over doing the video's of Premier Lake, and everyone was getting bored. ?Deep test Monday, for Gamma, will take pictures.Hank On Friday, August 25, 2017, 7:43:42 PM MDT, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, You don't need any evidence for the wife to see that you were not working on the house, but you should at least take photos to share with the rest of us subbers who are still working on our houses because our wives are watching us. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 5:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My dive today was unexpected because I am supposed to be working on renovating the house and shop that we are moving into next summer.? I have decided that the house can wait because submarine adventures are more important. So there, lol.? I did not take pictures or video but it was picturesque with a flat ?sunny lake and great visibility ? because it has not rained in about two months. ?Hank On Friday, August 25, 2017, 6:19:31 PM MDT, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Any pictures or video? Cliff Redus On Aug 25, 2017, at 6:52 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I am going back to switches for now and will get proper controllers over the winter.? Lucky for me I have back up travel motors that saved the day.Also my inflatable is an absolute dream! ?can bump into the sub all you want.? Now I just hit the brakes and Gamma drifts off untethered off the trailer. Then I park the truck and hop in the inflatable to retrieve Gamma.? Nice!Hank On Friday, August 25, 2017, 5:45:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: They should have DC brushless controllers down to a fine art.There are so many electric bikes & rickshaws over there.Also they are so dominant in the electric RC market that requires?reliable DC controllers.Maybe Hank got some backyard manufacturer using parts fromold TVs.I was told to over size my controller by about double.Buy a 3000W controller for a 1500W motor.Also the manufacturers get nervous when you talk about longwire runs from your battery bank to controller. I am not totallyclued up on this, but have heard it said to add capacitors alongthe wire run & twist the wires together to avoid inrush currentfrom the break down of the electric field in the wiring. The PWMwould cause a constant building up & breaking down of the magneticfield & a ?consequent surging of electricity into the input capacitors.I guess a way around this would be to place the controller as closeas possible to the battery source & run long runs of wire to the speedcontrol potentiometer & on switch.These days the controllers have all sorts of parameters you have toprogram in to them when they arrive. Gets very confusing!Alan Sent from my iPad On 26/08/2017, at 11:15 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I read a book about manufacturing in China which I found quite interesting: "Poorly Made in China" by Paul Midler. Gives some of the background explanation behind the lack of quality control. Sean On August 25, 2017 4:23:28 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Well I learned another lesson today.? I went for a very unexpected dive in Gamma today and both new speed controllers quit.? Don't buy electronic parts from China ! Ever! ?Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Aug 25 23:37:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2017 05:37:53 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] speed controllers In-Reply-To: <831153869.2698871.1503717259442@mail.yahoo.com> References: <742139424.2551123.1503699808245.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <9776AD29-BDAC-4310-B5D8-F0B65CA88369@yahoo.com> <1435105332.2620914.1503705169751@mail.yahoo.com> <466D7B4B-FBC3-435D-A378-DEAED120D0C1@gmail.com> <512465160.2607887.1503707243583@mail.yahoo.com> <831153869.2698871.1503717259442@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7991CECC-EC1E-4780-85FF-6E9960076FD1@snyderemail.com> Never! Videos are inspiring for those of us still in the "dream" phase. > On Aug 26, 2017, at 5:14 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > David, > Honestly I thought I was over doing the video's of Premier Lake, and everyone was getting bored. Deep test Monday, for Gamma, will take pictures. > Hank > > > On Friday, August 25, 2017, 7:43:42 PM MDT, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, You don't need any evidence for the wife to see that you were not working on the house, but you should at least take photos to share with the rest of us subbers who are still working on our houses because our wives are watching us. > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > > On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 5:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > My dive today was unexpected because I am supposed to be working on renovating the house and shop that we are moving into next summer. I have decided that the house can wait because submarine adventures are more important. So there, lol. I did not take pictures or video but it was picturesque with a flat sunny lake and great visibility because it has not rained in about two months. > Hank > > > On Friday, August 25, 2017, 6:19:31 PM MDT, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Any pictures or video? > > > Cliff Redus > >> On Aug 25, 2017, at 6:52 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, >> I am going back to switches for now and will get proper controllers over the winter. Lucky for me I have back up travel motors that saved the day. >> Also my inflatable is an absolute dream! can bump into the sub all you want. Now I just hit the brakes and Gamma drifts off untethered off the trailer. Then I park the truck and hop in the inflatable to retrieve Gamma. Nice! >> Hank >> >> >> On Friday, August 25, 2017, 5:45:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> They should have DC brushless controllers down to a fine art. >> There are so many electric bikes & rickshaws over there. >> Also they are so dominant in the electric RC market that requires >> reliable DC controllers. >> Maybe Hank got some backyard manufacturer using parts from >> old TVs. >> I was told to over size my controller by about double. >> Buy a 3000W controller for a 1500W motor. >> Also the manufacturers get nervous when you talk about long >> wire runs from your battery bank to controller. I am not totally >> clued up on this, but have heard it said to add capacitors along >> the wire run & twist the wires together to avoid inrush current >> from the break down of the electric field in the wiring. The PWM >> would cause a constant building up & breaking down of the magnetic >> field & a consequent surging of electricity into the input capacitors. >> I guess a way around this would be to place the controller as close >> as possible to the battery source & run long runs of wire to the speed >> control potentiometer & on switch. >> These days the controllers have all sorts of parameters you have to >> program in to them when they arrive. Gets very confusing! >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 26/08/2017, at 11:15 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> I read a book about manufacturing in China which I found quite interesting: >>> >>> "Poorly Made in China" by Paul Midler. >>> >>> Gives some of the background explanation behind the lack of quality control. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>> On August 25, 2017 4:23:28 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Well I learned another lesson today. I went for a very unexpected dive in Gamma today and both new speed controllers quit. Don't buy electronic parts from China ! Ever! >>> Hank >>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 26 09:23:40 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2017 13:23:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] speed controllers In-Reply-To: <9776AD29-BDAC-4310-B5D8-F0B65CA88369@yahoo.com> References: <742139424.2551123.1503699808245.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <9776AD29-BDAC-4310-B5D8-F0B65CA88369@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1117153233.319179.1503753820406@mail.yahoo.com> I bought my controllers from an american company but have no clue if they purchased them from a Chinese source. ?However, they are rated for 60amps but the MK101's only pull 40amps at 100% thrust. ?I agree with Alan's philosophy, purchasing electronics rated higher than their intended use gives you some buffer room that hopefully won't tax the item on it's extreme end. ?I did the same with my electric welder, purchased a 250amp but have never used more than 125 amps with it. Jon On Friday, August 25, 2017 7:48 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: They should have DC brushless controllers down to a fine art.There are so many electric bikes & rickshaws over there.Also they are so dominant in the electric RC market that requires?reliable DC controllers.Maybe Hank got some backyard manufacturer using parts fromold TVs.I was told to over size my controller by about double.Buy a 3000W controller for a 1500W motor.Also the manufacturers get nervous when you talk about longwire runs from your battery bank to controller. I am not totallyclued up on this, but have heard it said to add capacitors alongthe wire run & twist the wires together to avoid inrush currentfrom the break down of the electric field in the wiring. The PWMwould cause a constant building up & breaking down of the magneticfield & a ?consequent surging of electricity into the input capacitors.I guess a way around this would be to place the controller as closeas possible to the battery source & run long runs of wire to the speedcontrol potentiometer & on switch.These days the controllers have all sorts of parameters you have toprogram in to them when they arrive. Gets very confusing!Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 26 09:46:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2017 21:46:50 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: <1669784804.103789.1503706920521@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20170823182809.F1B74368@m0117567.ppops.net> <0C9CECD4-3A31-46AF-A311-463E1E27D634@yahoo.com> <71372171.1548859.1503549260553@mail.yahoo.com> <1669784804.103789.1503706920521@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Most Internet users are...people like us. Marc On 8/26/2017 8:22 AM, Ray Keefer via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Howdy, > > I read about this event in the main stream media and thought PSUBS would > have the straight scoop. Don't seem to. > > I won't comment on the case. There are people whose job is chasing down > the truth and in the end they will report out. > > I will comment on the public image. So far PSUBS hasn't been dragged > into this. Which is a good thing. The public comments are of two kinds. > First is sexual innuendo regarding submarines. To be expected since most > internet users are morons. Secondly is how unsafe "homemade" submarines > are. Some are and some are not. I would rate Peter's submarines safe. > Apparently the good work by you PSUBers hasn't reached to general > public. Maybe that is a good thing since most internet users are morons. > > Regards, > Ray > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Alan via Personal_Submersibles > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > *Sent:* Friday, August 25, 2017 3:26 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus > > Now they are re-opening a 1986 murder case where a 22 year old > Japanese tourist's dismembered body was found in a similar location > to that of Kim Wall. > Peter would have had to be about 15 at the time! > Getting more bizarre! > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 24/08/2017, at 4:34 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > >> Love your sense of humor Alan. ?:) >> >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, August 23, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> > > wrote: >> >> >> Yes, he made submarines! >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 24/08/2017, at 1:28 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> > > wrote: >> >>> Truly bizarre !?? Were there any clues that he was deranged ? >>> Brian >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> wrote: >>> >>> From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >>> >> > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> >> > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus >>> Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 20:06:02 +0000 (UTC) >>> >>> Hi Alan, >>> >>> I'm not sure Madsen has to say anything more. ?From what I've read, >>> Danish legal scholars believe there is enough circumstantial evidence >>> to convict. ?I also read that murder convictions rarely result in >>> more than 16 years of incarceration because of their belief in >>> rehabilitation. ?Anyone want to sign up for a midnight cruise with >>> Madsen when he gets out? >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 26 11:11:06 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2017 10:11:06 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As a lot of you use the OTS underwater comes on your boats so I thought I would share with you an issue that came up on the Islamorada trip. When I tried to use the OTS comms with my new LED lights on, I noticed a loud hum in the OTS headset. When we got the boat back on the dock, we did some testing plugging and unplugging the Subcon disconnects to each of the four lights. What we found was a cumulative affect, each light adding to the noise. These lights use a switching LED driver. There seemed to be the same noise level when the lights were on submerged as on the surface so think the noise is electrically coupled not acoustically. On my boat to keep from changing out AA batteries in the OTS SSB-2010 unit, I removed the battery pack and replace it with an circular electrical disconnect that brings in 12VDC from boat bus. I use a DC-DC converter to power this bus. I am thinking this is a non isolated converter. I spoke with the OTS engineers and they said it was a common problem when folks that make this change and the solution was to use a DC noise filter on the power supplied to the unit that isolates both the positive and negative power feeds going into the unit. They also suggested using an isolated DC power supply. To test this I ordered a Palomar Engineers RFI-DC-30 which is a common mode noise filter http://palomar-engineers.com/rfi-kits/home-alarm-system-rfi-kit#!/DC-Voltage-Common-Mode-Noise-Filter/p/74356250 . Also I hear the thrusters as well as the emergency pinger in the OTS gear. In the next couple of weeks I plan on doing a shop test to see if this works. I will report on what I find. Regards Cliff On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Cliff Redus wrote: > Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad > for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the > best sub trip of my life! > > I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip and mailed > them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of the 2017 > Psub Regatta. > > I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key points > were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 miles > from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of 93F and > RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we ran partially > submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to see if we could get > out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The deeper dive on Aug > 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 miles from Doug's house > (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so even thought > the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it was a smooth > tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At the second dive site the > water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells. Could see > the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow back was rough. > With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster both in > the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing at > 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours. I did not > loose my cookies but it was close. > > As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with > launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing. > Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board water and > upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water. We > were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. > > More latter. > > Cliff > > > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >> 1-3). >> >> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >> >> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >> >> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >> tow line and helped with comms. >> >> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >> >> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >> than I can remember last week. >> >> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >> >> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >> >> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >> accomplishment with the mission. >> >> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >> sub to track straight). >> >> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 26 12:40:58 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2017 12:40:58 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Cliff, I'll be following that with interest! In Shackleton I have a DC-DC converter to step down the 36 volts to 12 for hotel loads. The 12V converter output is connected in parallel to a small 12V battery and to hotel loads, the idea being that I charge the 12V battery pre-dive and switch off the converter while diving to avoid interference. The OTS unit I use in native mode, on separate AA batteries to avoid electrical noise, but despite this if the DC-DC converter is running it interferes with the comms to the point of rendering them useless. If the noise filter is successful it would let me charge the hotel battery from the big banks while diving, or use the converter as backup, without losing comms. Best, Alec On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > As a lot of you use the OTS underwater comes on your boats so I thought I > would share with you an issue that came up on the Islamorada trip. When > I tried to use the OTS comms with my new LED lights on, I noticed a loud > hum in the OTS headset. When we got the boat back on the dock, we did some > testing plugging and unplugging the Subcon disconnects to each of the four > lights. What we found was a cumulative affect, each light adding to the > noise. These lights use a switching LED driver. There seemed to be the > same noise level when the lights were on submerged as on the surface so > think the noise is electrically coupled not acoustically. On my boat to > keep from changing out AA batteries in the OTS SSB-2010 unit, I removed the > battery pack and replace it with an circular electrical disconnect that > brings in 12VDC from boat bus. I use a DC-DC converter to power this bus. > I am thinking this is a non isolated converter. I spoke with the OTS > engineers and they said it was a common problem when folks that make this > change and the solution was to use a DC noise filter on the power supplied > to the unit that isolates both the positive and negative power feeds going > into the unit. They also suggested using an isolated DC power supply. To > test this I ordered a Palomar Engineers RFI-DC-30 which is a common mode > noise filter http://palomar-engineers.com/rfi-kits/home-alarm-system- > rfi-kit#!/DC-Voltage-Common-Mode-Noise-Filter/p/74356250. > Also I hear the thrusters as well as the emergency pinger in the OTS gear. > > In the next couple of weeks I plan on doing a shop test to see if this > works. I will report on what I find. > > Regards > > Cliff > > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Cliff Redus > wrote: > >> Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad >> for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the >> best sub trip of my life! >> >> I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip >> and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of >> the 2017 Psub Regatta. >> >> I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key >> points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 >> miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of >> 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we >> ran partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to >> see if we could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The >> deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 >> miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran >> submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad >> at all as it was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At >> the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft >> swells. Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow >> back was rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller >> coaster both in the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 >> miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around >> 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies but it was close. >> >> As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with >> launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing. >> Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board water and >> upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water. We >> were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. >> >> More latter. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >>> 1-3). >>> >>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >>> >>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>> >>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>> tow line and helped with comms. >>> >>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>> >>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >>> than I can remember last week. >>> >>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>> >>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>> >>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>> accomplishment with the mission. >>> >>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >>> sub to track straight). >>> >>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 26 15:25:12 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2017 14:25:12 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That is an interesting point about the even with your OTS SSB-2010 unit running off AA batteries, you hear noise when the DC-DC converter is on. I was hoping this noise filter I ordered would do the trick but it sounds like maybe , maybe not. I have a friend that works for ATT and he also thinks it noise coming in on the power to the OTS unit. What I am hoping it is not is acoustic coupling. My transducer is mounted to the FRP shell behind the pilot. I am hoping it is not picking up this noise through vibrations through the FRP shell. I well let you know what I learn from the test. Cliff On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Cliff, > > I'll be following that with interest! In Shackleton I have a DC-DC > converter to step down the 36 volts to 12 for hotel loads. The 12V > converter output is connected in parallel to a small 12V battery and to > hotel loads, the idea being that I charge the 12V battery pre-dive and > switch off the converter while diving to avoid interference. The OTS unit I > use in native mode, on separate AA batteries to avoid electrical noise, but > despite this if the DC-DC converter is running it interferes with the comms > to the point of rendering them useless. If the noise filter is successful > it would let me charge the hotel battery from the big banks while diving, > or use the converter as backup, without losing comms. > > Best, > > Alec > > > > On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> As a lot of you use the OTS underwater comes on your boats so I thought I >> would share with you an issue that came up on the Islamorada trip. When >> I tried to use the OTS comms with my new LED lights on, I noticed a loud >> hum in the OTS headset. When we got the boat back on the dock, we did some >> testing plugging and unplugging the Subcon disconnects to each of the four >> lights. What we found was a cumulative affect, each light adding to the >> noise. These lights use a switching LED driver. There seemed to be the >> same noise level when the lights were on submerged as on the surface so >> think the noise is electrically coupled not acoustically. On my boat to >> keep from changing out AA batteries in the OTS SSB-2010 unit, I removed the >> battery pack and replace it with an circular electrical disconnect that >> brings in 12VDC from boat bus. I use a DC-DC converter to power this bus. >> I am thinking this is a non isolated converter. I spoke with the OTS >> engineers and they said it was a common problem when folks that make this >> change and the solution was to use a DC noise filter on the power supplied >> to the unit that isolates both the positive and negative power feeds going >> into the unit. They also suggested using an isolated DC power supply. To >> test this I ordered a Palomar Engineers RFI-DC-30 which is a common mode >> noise filter http://palomar-engineers.com/rfi-kits/home-alarm-system-rfi- >> kit#!/DC-Voltage-Common-Mode-Noise-Filter/p/74356250. >> Also I hear the thrusters as well as the emergency pinger in the OTS gear. >> >> In the next couple of weeks I plan on doing a shop test to see if this >> works. I will report on what I find. >> >> Regards >> >> Cliff >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Cliff Redus >> wrote: >> >>> Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad >>> for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the >>> best sub trip of my life! >>> >>> I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip >>> and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of >>> the 2017 Psub Regatta. >>> >>> I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key >>> points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 >>> miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of >>> 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we >>> ran partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to >>> see if we could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The >>> deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 >>> miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran >>> submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad >>> at all as it was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At >>> the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft >>> swells. Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow >>> back was rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller >>> coaster both in the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 >>> miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around >>> 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies but it was close. >>> >>> As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel >>> with launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without >>> towing. Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board >>> water and upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of >>> water. We were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. >>> >>> More latter. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >>>> 1-3). >>>> >>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >>>> >>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>>> >>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>>> tow line and helped with comms. >>>> >>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>>> >>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >>>> than I can remember last week. >>>> >>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>>> >>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>>> >>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>>> accomplishment with the mission. >>>> >>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >>>> sub to track straight). >>>> >>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 26 16:44:24 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2017 08:44:24 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7687E8E2-E819-4173-BCA0-C68648098CCF@yahoo.com> Cliff, my original buck / boost LED drivers made audible noise at certain settings. I mentioned this to an electronics friend, who said that it was to do with the tuning of the unit. I had 10 new units made up for me in China, at a factory that seems to produce a lot of these buck / boost DC drivers. I made mention of the noise problem & was specific that I wanted a 36V fixed output, along with dimming & on off switch. These new units are a lot audibly quieter. I am guessing they can achieve this easier by not having to also cater for the wide output range. They can operate from about 12V through to 54V. I am now wondering whether having a narrower input power band would help even more. Whether the audible noise corresponds to electrical noise in the frequency that interferes with your coms, I do not know. I can send you one of these drivers for testing if you like, as this is a problem I will be encountering. Just send me your address. alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com The units are designed to output 75W, but this can be dialled down on the dimming pot, or buy a more suitable pot. Again, if the unit ( in your case) was designed to output at 50 W then possibly there would be less noise. It would be interesting to see if dimming them increased the noise. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 27/08/2017, at 7:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > That is an interesting point about the even with your OTS SSB-2010 unit running off AA batteries, you hear noise when the DC-DC converter is on. I was hoping this noise filter I ordered would do the trick but it sounds like maybe , maybe not. I have a friend that works for ATT and he also thinks it noise coming in on the power to the OTS unit. What I am hoping it is not is acoustic coupling. My transducer is mounted to the FRP shell behind the pilot. I am hoping it is not picking up this noise through vibrations through the FRP shell. > > I well let you know what I learn from the test. > > Cliff > >> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hi Cliff, >> >> I'll be following that with interest! In Shackleton I have a DC-DC converter to step down the 36 volts to 12 for hotel loads. The 12V converter output is connected in parallel to a small 12V battery and to hotel loads, the idea being that I charge the 12V battery pre-dive and switch off the converter while diving to avoid interference. The OTS unit I use in native mode, on separate AA batteries to avoid electrical noise, but despite this if the DC-DC converter is running it interferes with the comms to the point of rendering them useless. If the noise filter is successful it would let me charge the hotel battery from the big banks while diving, or use the converter as backup, without losing comms. >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> >> >>> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> As a lot of you use the OTS underwater comes on your boats so I thought I would share with you an issue that came up on the Islamorada trip. When I tried to use the OTS comms with my new LED lights on, I noticed a loud hum in the OTS headset. When we got the boat back on the dock, we did some testing plugging and unplugging the Subcon disconnects to each of the four lights. What we found was a cumulative affect, each light adding to the noise. These lights use a switching LED driver. There seemed to be the same noise level when the lights were on submerged as on the surface so think the noise is electrically coupled not acoustically. On my boat to keep from changing out AA batteries in the OTS SSB-2010 unit, I removed the battery pack and replace it with an circular electrical disconnect that brings in 12VDC from boat bus. I use a DC-DC converter to power this bus. I am thinking this is a non isolated converter. I spoke with the OTS engineers and they said it was a common problem when folks that make this change and the solution was to use a DC noise filter on the power supplied to the unit that isolates both the positive and negative power feeds going into the unit. They also suggested using an isolated DC power supply. To test this I ordered a Palomar Engineers RFI-DC-30 which is a common mode noise filter http://palomar-engineers.com/rfi-kits/home-alarm-system-rfi-kit#!/DC-Voltage-Common-Mode-Noise-Filter/p/74356250. >>> Also I hear the thrusters as well as the emergency pinger in the OTS gear. >>> >>> In the next couple of weeks I plan on doing a shop test to see if this works. I will report on what I find. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Cliff Redus wrote: >>> >>>> Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the best sub trip of my life! >>>> >>>> I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of the 2017 Psub Regatta. >>>> >>>> I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we ran partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to see if we could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells. Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow back was rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster both in the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies but it was close. >>>> >>>> As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing. Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board water and upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water. We were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. >>>> >>>> More latter. >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >>>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >>>>> 1-3). >>>>> >>>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >>>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >>>>> >>>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>>>> >>>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >>>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >>>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >>>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>>>> tow line and helped with comms. >>>>> >>>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >>>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>>>> >>>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >>>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >>>>> than I can remember last week. >>>>> >>>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >>>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>>>> >>>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >>>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>>>> >>>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >>>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >>>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >>>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >>>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >>>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >>>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >>>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >>>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >>>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >>>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >>>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>>>> accomplishment with the mission. >>>>> >>>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >>>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >>>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >>>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >>>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >>>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >>>>> sub to track straight). >>>>> >>>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >>>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >>>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >>>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >>>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >>>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 26 16:57:59 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2017 15:57:59 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: <7687E8E2-E819-4173-BCA0-C68648098CCF@yahoo.com> References: <7687E8E2-E819-4173-BCA0-C68648098CCF@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan, let me do some playing with the LED drivers I have installed. As I have my drivers installed in the body of the LED lights, and body is quite small with a custom PCB, I would not have room for a larger driver. Let me see how this noise suppressor works first. Best Regards Cliff On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > my original buck / boost LED drivers made audible noise at certain > settings. I mentioned this to an electronics friend, who said that > it was to do with the tuning of the unit. > I had 10 new units made up for me in China, at a factory that seems > to produce a lot of these buck / boost DC drivers. I made mention > of the noise problem & was specific that I wanted a 36V fixed output, > along with dimming & on off switch. > These new units are a lot audibly quieter. I am guessing they can achieve > this easier by not having to also cater for the wide output range. > They can operate from about 12V through to 54V. I am now wondering > whether having a narrower input power band would help even more. > Whether the audible noise corresponds to electrical noise in the frequency > that interferes with your coms, I do not know. > I can send you one of these drivers for testing if you like, as this is a > problem > I will be encountering. Just send me your address. > alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com > The units are designed to output 75W, but this can be dialled down on > the dimming pot, or buy a more suitable pot. Again, if the unit ( in your > case) > was designed to output at 50 W then possibly there would be less noise. > It would be interesting to see if dimming them increased the noise. > Alan > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 27/08/2017, at 7:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > That is an interesting point about the even with your OTS SSB-2010 unit > running off AA batteries, you hear noise when the DC-DC converter is on. I > was hoping this noise filter I ordered would do the trick but it sounds > like maybe , maybe not. I have a friend that works for ATT and he also > thinks it noise coming in on the power to the OTS unit. What I am hoping > it is not is acoustic coupling. My transducer is mounted to the FRP shell > behind the pilot. I am hoping it is not picking up this noise through > vibrations through the FRP shell. > > I well let you know what I learn from the test. > > Cliff > > On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi Cliff, >> >> I'll be following that with interest! In Shackleton I have a DC-DC >> converter to step down the 36 volts to 12 for hotel loads. The 12V >> converter output is connected in parallel to a small 12V battery and to >> hotel loads, the idea being that I charge the 12V battery pre-dive and >> switch off the converter while diving to avoid interference. The OTS unit I >> use in native mode, on separate AA batteries to avoid electrical noise, but >> despite this if the DC-DC converter is running it interferes with the comms >> to the point of rendering them useless. If the noise filter is successful >> it would let me charge the hotel battery from the big banks while diving, >> or use the converter as backup, without losing comms. >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> As a lot of you use the OTS underwater comes on your boats so I thought >>> I would share with you an issue that came up on the Islamorada trip. When >>> I tried to use the OTS comms with my new LED lights on, I noticed a loud >>> hum in the OTS headset. When we got the boat back on the dock, we did some >>> testing plugging and unplugging the Subcon disconnects to each of the four >>> lights. What we found was a cumulative affect, each light adding to the >>> noise. These lights use a switching LED driver. There seemed to be the >>> same noise level when the lights were on submerged as on the surface so >>> think the noise is electrically coupled not acoustically. On my boat to >>> keep from changing out AA batteries in the OTS SSB-2010 unit, I removed the >>> battery pack and replace it with an circular electrical disconnect that >>> brings in 12VDC from boat bus. I use a DC-DC converter to power this bus. >>> I am thinking this is a non isolated converter. I spoke with the OTS >>> engineers and they said it was a common problem when folks that make this >>> change and the solution was to use a DC noise filter on the power supplied >>> to the unit that isolates both the positive and negative power feeds going >>> into the unit. They also suggested using an isolated DC power supply. To >>> test this I ordered a Palomar Engineers RFI-DC-30 which is a common >>> mode noise filter http://palomar-engineers.com/r >>> fi-kits/home-alarm-system-rfi-kit#!/DC-Voltage-Common-Mode-N >>> oise-Filter/p/74356250. >>> Also I hear the thrusters as well as the emergency pinger in the OTS >>> gear. >>> >>> In the next couple of weeks I plan on doing a shop test to see if this >>> works. I will report on what I find. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Cliff Redus >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and >>>> dad for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the >>>> best sub trip of my life! >>>> >>>> I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip >>>> and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of >>>> the 2017 Psub Regatta. >>>> >>>> I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key >>>> points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 >>>> miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of >>>> 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we >>>> ran partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to >>>> see if we could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The >>>> deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 >>>> miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran >>>> submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad >>>> at all as it was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At >>>> the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft >>>> swells. Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow >>>> back was rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller >>>> coaster both in the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 >>>> miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around >>>> 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies but it was close. >>>> >>>> As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel >>>> with launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without >>>> towing. Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board >>>> water and upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of >>>> water. We were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. >>>> >>>> More latter. >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >>>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >>>>> 1-3). >>>>> >>>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >>>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >>>>> >>>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>>>> >>>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >>>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >>>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >>>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>>>> tow line and helped with comms. >>>>> >>>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >>>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>>>> >>>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >>>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >>>>> than I can remember last week. >>>>> >>>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >>>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>>>> >>>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >>>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>>>> >>>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >>>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >>>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >>>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >>>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >>>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >>>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >>>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >>>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >>>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >>>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >>>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>>>> accomplishment with the mission. >>>>> >>>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >>>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >>>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >>>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >>>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >>>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >>>>> sub to track straight). >>>>> >>>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >>>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >>>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >>>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >>>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >>>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 26 17:39:10 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2017 09:39:10 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: <7687E8E2-E819-4173-BCA0-C68648098CCF@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <85DB48D2-EF52-4624-9257-7786F10B799D@yahoo.com> Cliff, didn't know the electronics were in the light. Another experiment, if the suppressor doesn't work could be to put electronics in the hull. Have some other ideas, but see how you go! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 27/08/2017, at 8:57 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, let me do some playing with the LED drivers I have installed. As I have my drivers installed in the body of the LED lights, and body is quite small with a custom PCB, I would not have room for a larger driver. Let me see how this noise suppressor works first. > > Best Regards > > Cliff > >> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Cliff, >> my original buck / boost LED drivers made audible noise at certain >> settings. I mentioned this to an electronics friend, who said that >> it was to do with the tuning of the unit. >> I had 10 new units made up for me in China, at a factory that seems >> to produce a lot of these buck / boost DC drivers. I made mention >> of the noise problem & was specific that I wanted a 36V fixed output, >> along with dimming & on off switch. >> These new units are a lot audibly quieter. I am guessing they can achieve >> this easier by not having to also cater for the wide output range. >> They can operate from about 12V through to 54V. I am now wondering >> whether having a narrower input power band would help even more. >> Whether the audible noise corresponds to electrical noise in the frequency >> that interferes with your coms, I do not know. >> I can send you one of these drivers for testing if you like, as this is a problem >> I will be encountering. Just send me your address. >> alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com >> The units are designed to output 75W, but this can be dialled down on >> the dimming pot, or buy a more suitable pot. Again, if the unit ( in your case) >> was designed to output at 50 W then possibly there would be less noise. >> It would be interesting to see if dimming them increased the noise. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 27/08/2017, at 7:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> That is an interesting point about the even with your OTS SSB-2010 unit running off AA batteries, you hear noise when the DC-DC converter is on. I was hoping this noise filter I ordered would do the trick but it sounds like maybe , maybe not. I have a friend that works for ATT and he also thinks it noise coming in on the power to the OTS unit. What I am hoping it is not is acoustic coupling. My transducer is mounted to the FRP shell behind the pilot. I am hoping it is not picking up this noise through vibrations through the FRP shell. >>> >>> I well let you know what I learn from the test. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>>> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Hi Cliff, >>>> >>>> I'll be following that with interest! In Shackleton I have a DC-DC converter to step down the 36 volts to 12 for hotel loads. The 12V converter output is connected in parallel to a small 12V battery and to hotel loads, the idea being that I charge the 12V battery pre-dive and switch off the converter while diving to avoid interference. The OTS unit I use in native mode, on separate AA batteries to avoid electrical noise, but despite this if the DC-DC converter is running it interferes with the comms to the point of rendering them useless. If the noise filter is successful it would let me charge the hotel battery from the big banks while diving, or use the converter as backup, without losing comms. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Alec >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> As a lot of you use the OTS underwater comes on your boats so I thought I would share with you an issue that came up on the Islamorada trip. When I tried to use the OTS comms with my new LED lights on, I noticed a loud hum in the OTS headset. When we got the boat back on the dock, we did some testing plugging and unplugging the Subcon disconnects to each of the four lights. What we found was a cumulative affect, each light adding to the noise. These lights use a switching LED driver. There seemed to be the same noise level when the lights were on submerged as on the surface so think the noise is electrically coupled not acoustically. On my boat to keep from changing out AA batteries in the OTS SSB-2010 unit, I removed the battery pack and replace it with an circular electrical disconnect that brings in 12VDC from boat bus. I use a DC-DC converter to power this bus. I am thinking this is a non isolated converter. I spoke with the OTS engineers and they said it was a common problem when folks that make this change and the solution was to use a DC noise filter on the power supplied to the unit that isolates both the positive and negative power feeds going into the unit. They also suggested using an isolated DC power supply. To test this I ordered a Palomar Engineers RFI-DC-30 which is a common mode noise filter http://palomar-engineers.com/rfi-kits/home-alarm-system-rfi-kit#!/DC-Voltage-Common-Mode-Noise-Filter/p/74356250. >>>>> Also I hear the thrusters as well as the emergency pinger in the OTS gear. >>>>> >>>>> In the next couple of weeks I plan on doing a shop test to see if this works. I will report on what I find. >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> >>>>> Cliff >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Cliff Redus wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the best sub trip of my life! >>>>>> >>>>>> I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of the 2017 Psub Regatta. >>>>>> >>>>>> I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we ran partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to see if we could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells. Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow back was rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster both in the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies but it was close. >>>>>> >>>>>> As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing. Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board water and upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water. We were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. >>>>>> >>>>>> More latter. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cliff >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >>>>>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >>>>>>> 1-3). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>>>>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >>>>>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>>>>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>>>>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>>>>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >>>>>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>>>>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >>>>>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >>>>>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>>>>>> tow line and helped with comms. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>>>>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>>>>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >>>>>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>>>>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >>>>>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>>>>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>>>>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >>>>>>> than I can remember last week. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >>>>>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >>>>>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>>>>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >>>>>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>>>>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >>>>>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >>>>>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >>>>>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >>>>>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >>>>>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>>>>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >>>>>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >>>>>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >>>>>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>>>>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>>>>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >>>>>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>>>>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >>>>>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>>>>>> accomplishment with the mission. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >>>>>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >>>>>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>>>>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >>>>>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >>>>>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >>>>>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >>>>>>> sub to track straight). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >>>>>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >>>>>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>>>>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >>>>>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >>>>>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>>>>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>>>>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >>>>>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 26 18:02:32 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2017 18:02:32 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm curious whether the noise is coming from the buck boost converter switching, or the pulse width dimming switching. When I was designing a PWM dimming driver I had the switching frequency as high as I could get it, trying to get it above the auditory frequency range of dolphins. River J Dolfi Rdolfi7 at gmail.com 412-997-2526 On Aug 26, 2017 5:40 PM, "via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2017 09:39:10 +1200 From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... Message-ID: <85DB48D2-EF52-4624-9257-7786F10B799D at yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Cliff, didn't know the electronics were in the light. Another experiment, if the suppressor doesn't work could be to put electronics in the hull. Have some other ideas, but see how you go! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 27/08/2017, at 8:57 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, let me do some playing with the LED drivers I have installed. As I have my drivers installed in the body of the LED lights, and body is quite small with a custom PCB, I would not have room for a larger driver. Let me see how this noise suppressor works first. > > Best Regards > > Cliff > >> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> Cliff, >> my original buck / boost LED drivers made audible noise at certain >> settings. I mentioned this to an electronics friend, who said that >> it was to do with the tuning of the unit. >> I had 10 new units made up for me in China, at a factory that seems >> to produce a lot of these buck / boost DC drivers. I made mention >> of the noise problem & was specific that I wanted a 36V fixed output, >> along with dimming & on off switch. >> These new units are a lot audibly quieter. I am guessing they can achieve >> this easier by not having to also cater for the wide output range. >> They can operate from about 12V through to 54V. I am now wondering >> whether having a narrower input power band would help even more. >> Whether the audible noise corresponds to electrical noise in the frequency >> that interferes with your coms, I do not know. >> I can send you one of these drivers for testing if you like, as this is a problem >> I will be encountering. Just send me your address. >> alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com >> The units are designed to output 75W, but this can be dialled down on >> the dimming pot, or buy a more suitable pot. Again, if the unit ( in your case) >> was designed to output at 50 W then possibly there would be less noise. >> It would be interesting to see if dimming them increased the noise. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 27/08/2017, at 7:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> That is an interesting point about the even with your OTS SSB-2010 unit running off AA batteries, you hear noise when the DC-DC converter is on. I was hoping this noise filter I ordered would do the trick but it sounds like maybe , maybe not. I have a friend that works for ATT and he also thinks it noise coming in on the power to the OTS unit. What I am hoping it is not is acoustic coupling. My transducer is mounted to the FRP shell behind the pilot. I am hoping it is not picking up this noise through vibrations through the FRP shell. >>> >>> I well let you know what I learn from the test. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>>> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Hi Cliff, >>>> >>>> I'll be following that with interest! In Shackleton I have a DC-DC converter to step down the 36 volts to 12 for hotel loads. The 12V converter output is connected in parallel to a small 12V battery and to hotel loads, the idea being that I charge the 12V battery pre-dive and switch off the converter while diving to avoid interference. The OTS unit I use in native mode, on separate AA batteries to avoid electrical noise, but despite this if the DC-DC converter is running it interferes with the comms to the point of rendering them useless. If the noise filter is successful it would let me charge the hotel battery from the big banks while diving, or use the converter as backup, without losing comms. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Alec >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> As a lot of you use the OTS underwater comes on your boats so I thought I would share with you an issue that came up on the Islamorada trip. When I tried to use the OTS comms with my new LED lights on, I noticed a loud hum in the OTS headset. When we got the boat back on the dock, we did some testing plugging and unplugging the Subcon disconnects to each of the four lights. What we found was a cumulative affect, each light adding to the noise. These lights use a switching LED driver. There seemed to be the same noise level when the lights were on submerged as on the surface so think the noise is electrically coupled not acoustically. On my boat to keep from changing out AA batteries in the OTS SSB-2010 unit, I removed the battery pack and replace it with an circular electrical disconnect that brings in 12VDC from boat bus. I use a DC-DC converter to power this bus. I am thinking this is a non isolated converter. I spoke with the OTS engineers and they said i! t was a common problem when folks that make this change and the solution was to use a DC noise filter on the power supplied to the unit that isolates both the positive and negative power feeds going into the unit. They also suggested using an isolated DC power supply. To test this I ordered a Palomar Engineers RFI-DC-30 which is a common mode noise filter http://palomar-engineers.com/rfi-kits/home-alarm-system- rfi-kit#!/DC-Voltage-Common-Mode-Noise-Filter/p/74356250. >>>>> Also I hear the thrusters as well as the emergency pinger in the OTS gear. >>>>> >>>>> In the next couple of weeks I plan on doing a shop test to see if this works. I will report on what I find. >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> >>>>> Cliff >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Cliff Redus wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the best sub trip of my life! >>>>>> >>>>>> I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of the 2017 Psub Regatta. >>>>>> >>>>>> I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we ran partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to see if we could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells. Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow back was rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster both in the boat and in the s! ub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies but it was close. >>>>>> >>>>>> As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing. Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board water and upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water. We were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. >>>>>> >>>>>> More latter. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cliff >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >>>>>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >>>>>>> 1-3). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>>>>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >>>>>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>>>>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>>>>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>>>>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >>>>>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>>>>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >>>>>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >>>>>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>>>>>> tow line and helped with comms. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>>>>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>>>>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >>>>>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>>>>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >>>>>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>>>>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>>>>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >>>>>>> than I can remember last week. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >>>>>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >>>>>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>>>>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >>>>>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>>>>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >>>>>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >>>>>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >>>>>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >>>>>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >>>>>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>>>>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >>>>>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >>>>>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >>>>>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>>>>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>>>>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >>>>>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>>>>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >>>>>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>>>>>> accomplishment with the mission. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >>>>>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >>>>>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>>>>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >>>>>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >>>>>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >>>>>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >>>>>>> sub to track straight). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >>>>>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >>>>>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>>>>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >>>>>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >>>>>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>>>>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>>>>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >>>>>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 110 ****************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 26 18:16:31 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2017 18:16:31 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In my case its certainly not acoustic, but RF noise. I do think the thruster sounds are probably acoustic, but those are not anywhere near as much of a problem. Les (electronics SME who designed the controls) says he can counter the RF issue, but I don't recall his proposed method. Presumably it was some combination of shielding and re-routing. On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 3:25 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > That is an interesting point about the even with your OTS SSB-2010 unit > running off AA batteries, you hear noise when the DC-DC converter is on. I > was hoping this noise filter I ordered would do the trick but it sounds > like maybe , maybe not. I have a friend that works for ATT and he also > thinks it noise coming in on the power to the OTS unit. What I am hoping > it is not is acoustic coupling. My transducer is mounted to the FRP shell > behind the pilot. I am hoping it is not picking up this noise through > vibrations through the FRP shell. > > I well let you know what I learn from the test. > > Cliff > > On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi Cliff, >> >> I'll be following that with interest! In Shackleton I have a DC-DC >> converter to step down the 36 volts to 12 for hotel loads. The 12V >> converter output is connected in parallel to a small 12V battery and to >> hotel loads, the idea being that I charge the 12V battery pre-dive and >> switch off the converter while diving to avoid interference. The OTS unit I >> use in native mode, on separate AA batteries to avoid electrical noise, but >> despite this if the DC-DC converter is running it interferes with the comms >> to the point of rendering them useless. If the noise filter is successful >> it would let me charge the hotel battery from the big banks while diving, >> or use the converter as backup, without losing comms. >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> As a lot of you use the OTS underwater comes on your boats so I thought >>> I would share with you an issue that came up on the Islamorada trip. When >>> I tried to use the OTS comms with my new LED lights on, I noticed a loud >>> hum in the OTS headset. When we got the boat back on the dock, we did some >>> testing plugging and unplugging the Subcon disconnects to each of the four >>> lights. What we found was a cumulative affect, each light adding to the >>> noise. These lights use a switching LED driver. There seemed to be the >>> same noise level when the lights were on submerged as on the surface so >>> think the noise is electrically coupled not acoustically. On my boat to >>> keep from changing out AA batteries in the OTS SSB-2010 unit, I removed the >>> battery pack and replace it with an circular electrical disconnect that >>> brings in 12VDC from boat bus. I use a DC-DC converter to power this bus. >>> I am thinking this is a non isolated converter. I spoke with the OTS >>> engineers and they said it was a common problem when folks that make this >>> change and the solution was to use a DC noise filter on the power supplied >>> to the unit that isolates both the positive and negative power feeds going >>> into the unit. They also suggested using an isolated DC power supply. To >>> test this I ordered a Palomar Engineers RFI-DC-30 which is a common >>> mode noise filter http://palomar-engineers.com/r >>> fi-kits/home-alarm-system-rfi-kit#!/DC-Voltage-Common-Mode-N >>> oise-Filter/p/74356250. >>> Also I hear the thrusters as well as the emergency pinger in the OTS >>> gear. >>> >>> In the next couple of weeks I plan on doing a shop test to see if this >>> works. I will report on what I find. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Cliff Redus >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and >>>> dad for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the >>>> best sub trip of my life! >>>> >>>> I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip >>>> and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of >>>> the 2017 Psub Regatta. >>>> >>>> I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key >>>> points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 >>>> miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of >>>> 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we >>>> ran partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to >>>> see if we could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The >>>> deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 >>>> miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran >>>> submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad >>>> at all as it was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At >>>> the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft >>>> swells. Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow >>>> back was rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller >>>> coaster both in the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 >>>> miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around >>>> 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies but it was close. >>>> >>>> As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel >>>> with launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without >>>> towing. Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board >>>> water and upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of >>>> water. We were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. >>>> >>>> More latter. >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >>>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >>>>> 1-3). >>>>> >>>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >>>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >>>>> >>>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>>>> >>>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >>>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >>>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >>>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>>>> tow line and helped with comms. >>>>> >>>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >>>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>>>> >>>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >>>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >>>>> than I can remember last week. >>>>> >>>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >>>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>>>> >>>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >>>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>>>> >>>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >>>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >>>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >>>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >>>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >>>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >>>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >>>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >>>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >>>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >>>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >>>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>>>> accomplishment with the mission. >>>>> >>>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >>>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >>>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >>>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >>>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >>>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >>>>> sub to track straight). >>>>> >>>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >>>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >>>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >>>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >>>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >>>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 26 18:53:30 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2017 17:53:30 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The LED driver I am using https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/recom-power/RCD-24-1.20-W/945-1133-ND/2256313 It combines both buck boost converter switching and pulse width dimming switching in the same enclosure. Not sure which part is causing the noise. Cliff On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 5:02 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I'm curious whether the noise is coming from the buck boost converter > switching, or the pulse width dimming switching. When I was designing a PWM > dimming driver I had the switching frequency as high as I could get it, > trying to get it above the auditory frequency range of dolphins. > > River J Dolfi > Rdolfi7 at gmail.com > 412-997-2526 <(412)%20997-2526> > > On Aug 26, 2017 5:40 PM, "via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2017 09:39:10 +1200 > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... > Message-ID: <85DB48D2-EF52-4624-9257-7786F10B799D at yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Cliff, > didn't know the electronics were in the light. > Another experiment, if the suppressor doesn't work could be to put > electronics in the hull. > Have some other ideas, but see how you go! > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 27/08/2017, at 8:57 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Alan, let me do some playing with the LED drivers I have installed. As > I have my drivers installed in the body of the LED lights, and body is > quite small with a custom PCB, I would not have room for a larger driver. > Let me see how this noise suppressor works first. > > > > Best Regards > > > > Cliff > > > >> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Cliff, > >> my original buck / boost LED drivers made audible noise at certain > >> settings. I mentioned this to an electronics friend, who said that > >> it was to do with the tuning of the unit. > >> I had 10 new units made up for me in China, at a factory that seems > >> to produce a lot of these buck / boost DC drivers. I made mention > >> of the noise problem & was specific that I wanted a 36V fixed output, > >> along with dimming & on off switch. > >> These new units are a lot audibly quieter. I am guessing they can > achieve > >> this easier by not having to also cater for the wide output range. > >> They can operate from about 12V through to 54V. I am now wondering > >> whether having a narrower input power band would help even more. > >> Whether the audible noise corresponds to electrical noise in the > frequency > >> that interferes with your coms, I do not know. > >> I can send you one of these drivers for testing if you like, as this is > a problem > >> I will be encountering. Just send me your address. > >> alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com > >> The units are designed to output 75W, but this can be dialled down on > >> the dimming pot, or buy a more suitable pot. Again, if the unit ( in > your case) > >> was designed to output at 50 W then possibly there would be less noise. > >> It would be interesting to see if dimming them increased the noise. > >> Alan > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Sent from my iPad > >> > >>> On 27/08/2017, at 7:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> That is an interesting point about the even with your OTS SSB-2010 > unit running off AA batteries, you hear noise when the DC-DC converter is > on. I was hoping this noise filter I ordered would do the trick but it > sounds like maybe , maybe not. I have a friend that works for ATT and he > also thinks it noise coming in on the power to the OTS unit. What I am > hoping it is not is acoustic coupling. My transducer is mounted to the FRP > shell behind the pilot. I am hoping it is not picking up this noise > through vibrations through the FRP shell. > >>> > >>> I well let you know what I learn from the test. > >>> > >>> Cliff > >>> > >>>> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >>>> Hi Cliff, > >>>> > >>>> I'll be following that with interest! In Shackleton I have a DC-DC > converter to step down the 36 volts to 12 for hotel loads. The 12V > converter output is connected in parallel to a small 12V battery and to > hotel loads, the idea being that I charge the 12V battery pre-dive and > switch off the converter while diving to avoid interference. The OTS unit I > use in native mode, on separate AA batteries to avoid electrical noise, but > despite this if the DC-DC converter is running it interferes with the comms > to the point of rendering them useless. If the noise filter is successful > it would let me charge the hotel battery from the big banks while diving, > or use the converter as backup, without losing comms. > >>>> > >>>> Best, > >>>> > >>>> Alec > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >>>>> As a lot of you use the OTS underwater comes on your boats so I > thought I would share with you an issue that came up on the Islamorada > trip. When I tried to use the OTS comms with my new LED lights on, I > noticed a loud hum in the OTS headset. When we got the boat back on the > dock, we did some testing plugging and unplugging the Subcon disconnects to > each of the four lights. What we found was a cumulative affect, each light > adding to the noise. These lights use a switching LED driver. There > seemed to be the same noise level when the lights were on submerged as on > the surface so think the noise is electrically coupled not acoustically. > On my boat to keep from changing out AA batteries in the OTS SSB-2010 unit, > I removed the battery pack and replace it with an circular electrical > disconnect that brings in 12VDC from boat bus. I use a DC-DC converter to > power this bus. I am thinking this is a non isolated converter. I spoke > with the OTS engineers and they said i! > t was a common problem when folks that make this change and the solution > was to use a DC noise filter on the power supplied to the unit that > isolates both the positive and negative power feeds going into the unit. > They also suggested using an isolated DC power supply. To test this I > ordered a Palomar Engineers RFI-DC-30 which is a common mode noise filter > http://palomar-engineers.com/rfi-kits/home-alarm-system-rfi- > kit#!/DC-Voltage-Common-Mode-Noise-Filter/p/74356250. > >>>>> Also I hear the thrusters as well as the emergency pinger in the OTS > gear. > >>>>> > >>>>> In the next couple of weeks I plan on doing a shop test to see if > this works. I will report on what I find. > >>>>> > >>>>> Regards > >>>>> > >>>>> Cliff > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Cliff Redus < > cliffordredus at gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom > and dad for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was > the best sub trip of my life! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip and > mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of the > 2017 Psub Regatta. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key > points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 > miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of > 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we ran > partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to see if we > could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The deeper > dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 miles from > Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so > even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it > was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At the second > dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells. > Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow back was > rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster > both in the boat and in the s! > ub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and > 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies > but it was close. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender > vessel with launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without > towing. Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board > water and upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of > water. We were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> More latter. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Cliff > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >>>>>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the > 4-day > >>>>>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, > August > >>>>>>> 1-3). > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup > day > >>>>>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was > unfortunate > >>>>>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands > >>>>>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough > time > >>>>>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic > diving. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, > >>>>>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation > diver > >>>>>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this > >>>>>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge > and > >>>>>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have > chatted > >>>>>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned > the > >>>>>>> tow line and helped with comms. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. > >>>>>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were > >>>>>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I > think > >>>>>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one > of > >>>>>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift > for > >>>>>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always > >>>>>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd > like > >>>>>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned > more > >>>>>>> than I can remember last week. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing > whatever > >>>>>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the > canal > >>>>>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was > getting > >>>>>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able > to > >>>>>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We > >>>>>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we > did > >>>>>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot > about > >>>>>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the > tow > >>>>>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided > that > >>>>>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to > OTS > >>>>>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the > >>>>>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the > Whaler! > >>>>>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow > did > >>>>>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent > about > >>>>>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, > >>>>>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time > Cliff > >>>>>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at > 4.5 > >>>>>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water > >>>>>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I > think > >>>>>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great > >>>>>>> accomplishment with the mission. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better > tow > >>>>>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our > boat > >>>>>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't > so > >>>>>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs > to > >>>>>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel > >>>>>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and > then > >>>>>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat > and > >>>>>>> sub to track straight). > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the > waves > >>>>>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like > this > >>>>>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At > dinner, > >>>>>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that > can > >>>>>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming > tow > >>>>>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support > >>>>>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of > >>>>>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will > lend > >>>>>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: attachments/20170827/20a3494e/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 110 > ****************************************************** > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 26 21:27:33 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2017 13:27:33 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99364EC7-0F85-4464-A6FF-B30D6A3C904E@yahoo.com> Cliff, that link is to a buck converter 31V output, 37W. Presume this is the wrong unit as you said you ran the light at 50W. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 27/08/2017, at 10:53 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > The LED driver I am using https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/recom-power/RCD-24-1.20-W/945-1133-ND/2256313 It combines both buck boost converter switching and pulse width dimming switching in the same enclosure. Not sure which part is causing the noise. > > Cliff > >> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 5:02 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> I'm curious whether the noise is coming from the buck boost converter switching, or the pulse width dimming switching. When I was designing a PWM dimming driver I had the switching frequency as high as I could get it, trying to get it above the auditory frequency range of dolphins. >> >> River J Dolfi >> Rdolfi7 at gmail.com >> 412-997-2526 >> >> On Aug 26, 2017 5:40 PM, "via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2017 09:39:10 +1200 >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... >> Message-ID: <85DB48D2-EF52-4624-9257-7786F10B799D at yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Cliff, >> didn't know the electronics were in the light. >> Another experiment, if the suppressor doesn't work could be to put >> electronics in the hull. >> Have some other ideas, but see how you go! >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> > On 27/08/2017, at 8:57 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > >> > Alan, let me do some playing with the LED drivers I have installed. As I have my drivers installed in the body of the LED lights, and body is quite small with a custom PCB, I would not have room for a larger driver. Let me see how this noise suppressor works first. >> > >> > Best Regards >> > >> > Cliff >> > >> >> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Cliff, >> >> my original buck / boost LED drivers made audible noise at certain >> >> settings. I mentioned this to an electronics friend, who said that >> >> it was to do with the tuning of the unit. >> >> I had 10 new units made up for me in China, at a factory that seems >> >> to produce a lot of these buck / boost DC drivers. I made mention >> >> of the noise problem & was specific that I wanted a 36V fixed output, >> >> along with dimming & on off switch. >> >> These new units are a lot audibly quieter. I am guessing they can achieve >> >> this easier by not having to also cater for the wide output range. >> >> They can operate from about 12V through to 54V. I am now wondering >> >> whether having a narrower input power band would help even more. >> >> Whether the audible noise corresponds to electrical noise in the frequency >> >> that interferes with your coms, I do not know. >> >> I can send you one of these drivers for testing if you like, as this is a problem >> >> I will be encountering. Just send me your address. >> >> alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com >> >> The units are designed to output 75W, but this can be dialled down on >> >> the dimming pot, or buy a more suitable pot. Again, if the unit ( in your case) >> >> was designed to output at 50 W then possibly there would be less noise. >> >> It would be interesting to see if dimming them increased the noise. >> >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> >>> On 27/08/2017, at 7:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> >> >>> That is an interesting point about the even with your OTS SSB-2010 unit running off AA batteries, you hear noise when the DC-DC converter is on. I was hoping this noise filter I ordered would do the trick but it sounds like maybe , maybe not. I have a friend that works for ATT and he also thinks it noise coming in on the power to the OTS unit. What I am hoping it is not is acoustic coupling. My transducer is mounted to the FRP shell behind the pilot. I am hoping it is not picking up this noise through vibrations through the FRP shell. >> >>> >> >>> I well let you know what I learn from the test. >> >>> >> >>> Cliff >> >>> >> >>>> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>>> Hi Cliff, >> >>>> >> >>>> I'll be following that with interest! In Shackleton I have a DC-DC converter to step down the 36 volts to 12 for hotel loads. The 12V converter output is connected in parallel to a small 12V battery and to hotel loads, the idea being that I charge the 12V battery pre-dive and switch off the converter while diving to avoid interference. The OTS unit I use in native mode, on separate AA batteries to avoid electrical noise, but despite this if the DC-DC converter is running it interferes with the comms to the point of rendering them useless. If the noise filter is successful it would let me charge the hotel battery from the big banks while diving, or use the converter as backup, without losing comms. >> >>>> >> >>>> Best, >> >>>> >> >>>> Alec >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>>>> As a lot of you use the OTS underwater comes on your boats so I thought I would share with you an issue that came up on the Islamorada trip. When I tried to use the OTS comms with my new LED lights on, I noticed a loud hum in the OTS headset. When we got the boat back on the dock, we did some testing plugging and unplugging the Subcon disconnects to each of the four lights. What we found was a cumulative affect, each light adding to the noise. These lights use a switching LED driver. There seemed to be the same noise level when the lights were on submerged as on the surface so think the noise is electrically coupled not acoustically. On my boat to keep from changing out AA batteries in the OTS SSB-2010 unit, I removed the battery pack and replace it with an circular electrical disconnect that brings in 12VDC from boat bus. I use a DC-DC converter to power this bus. I am thinking this is a non isolated converter. I spoke with the OTS engineers and they said i! >> t was a common problem when folks that make this change and the solution was to use a DC noise filter on the power supplied to the unit that isolates both the positive and negative power feeds going into the unit. They also suggested using an isolated DC power supply. To test this I ordered a Palomar Engineers RFI-DC-30 which is a common mode noise filter http://palomar-engineers.com/rfi-kits/home-alarm-system-rfi-kit#!/DC-Voltage-Common-Mode-Noise-Filter/p/74356250. >> >>>>> Also I hear the thrusters as well as the emergency pinger in the OTS gear. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> In the next couple of weeks I plan on doing a shop test to see if this works. I will report on what I find. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Regards >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Cliff >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Cliff Redus wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the best sub trip of my life! >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of the 2017 Psub Regatta. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we ran partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to see if we could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells. Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow back was rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster both in the boat and in the s! >> ub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies but it was close. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing. Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board water and upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water. We were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> More latter. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Cliff >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>>>>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >> >>>>>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >> >>>>>>> 1-3). >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >> >>>>>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >> >>>>>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >> >>>>>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >> >>>>>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >> >>>>>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >> >>>>>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >> >>>>>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >> >>>>>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >> >>>>>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >> >>>>>>> tow line and helped with comms. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >> >>>>>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >> >>>>>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >> >>>>>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >> >>>>>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >> >>>>>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >> >>>>>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >> >>>>>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >> >>>>>>> than I can remember last week. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >> >>>>>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >> >>>>>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >> >>>>>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >> >>>>>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >> >>>>>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >> >>>>>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >> >>>>>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >> >>>>>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >> >>>>>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >> >>>>>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >> >>>>>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >> >>>>>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >> >>>>>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >> >>>>>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >> >>>>>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >> >>>>>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >> >>>>>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >> >>>>>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >> >>>>>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >> >>>>>>> accomplishment with the mission. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >> >>>>>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >> >>>>>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >> >>>>>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >> >>>>>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >> >>>>>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >> >>>>>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >> >>>>>>> sub to track straight). >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >> >>>>>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >> >>>>>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >> >>>>>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >> >>>>>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >> >>>>>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >> >>>>>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >> >>>>>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >> >>>>>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 110 >> ****************************************************** >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 26 21:48:29 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2017 20:48:29 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report In-Reply-To: <99364EC7-0F85-4464-A6FF-B30D6A3C904E@yahoo.com> References: <99364EC7-0F85-4464-A6FF-B30D6A3C904E@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan, this is the correct unit. The driver is set up for a constant current output of 1.2A, 30V and consumes 37W to get 5000 lumen. Below is the wiring diagram. Don't remember saying it was 50W. [image: Inline image 1] Regards Cliff On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 8:27 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > that link is to a buck converter 31V output, 37W. > Presume this is the wrong unit as you said you ran > the light at 50W. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 27/08/2017, at 10:53 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > The LED driver I am using https://www.digikey.com/ > product-detail/en/recom-power/RCD-24-1.20-W/945-1133-ND/2256313 It > combines both buck boost converter switching and pulse width dimming > switching in the same enclosure. Not sure which part is causing the noise. > > Cliff > > On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 5:02 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> I'm curious whether the noise is coming from the buck boost converter >> switching, or the pulse width dimming switching. When I was designing a PWM >> dimming driver I had the switching frequency as high as I could get it, >> trying to get it above the auditory frequency range of dolphins. >> >> River J Dolfi >> Rdolfi7 at gmail.com >> 412-997-2526 <(412)%20997-2526> >> >> On Aug 26, 2017 5:40 PM, "via Personal_Submersibles" < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2017 09:39:10 +1200 >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... >> Message-ID: <85DB48D2-EF52-4624-9257-7786F10B799D at yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Cliff, >> didn't know the electronics were in the light. >> Another experiment, if the suppressor doesn't work could be to put >> electronics in the hull. >> Have some other ideas, but see how you go! >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> > On 27/08/2017, at 8:57 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> > >> > Alan, let me do some playing with the LED drivers I have installed. As >> I have my drivers installed in the body of the LED lights, and body is >> quite small with a custom PCB, I would not have room for a larger driver. >> Let me see how this noise suppressor works first. >> > >> > Best Regards >> > >> > Cliff >> > >> >> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Cliff, >> >> my original buck / boost LED drivers made audible noise at certain >> >> settings. I mentioned this to an electronics friend, who said that >> >> it was to do with the tuning of the unit. >> >> I had 10 new units made up for me in China, at a factory that seems >> >> to produce a lot of these buck / boost DC drivers. I made mention >> >> of the noise problem & was specific that I wanted a 36V fixed output, >> >> along with dimming & on off switch. >> >> These new units are a lot audibly quieter. I am guessing they can >> achieve >> >> this easier by not having to also cater for the wide output range. >> >> They can operate from about 12V through to 54V. I am now wondering >> >> whether having a narrower input power band would help even more. >> >> Whether the audible noise corresponds to electrical noise in the >> frequency >> >> that interferes with your coms, I do not know. >> >> I can send you one of these drivers for testing if you like, as this >> is a problem >> >> I will be encountering. Just send me your address. >> >> alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com >> >> The units are designed to output 75W, but this can be dialled down on >> >> the dimming pot, or buy a more suitable pot. Again, if the unit ( in >> your case) >> >> was designed to output at 50 W then possibly there would be less noise. >> >> It would be interesting to see if dimming them increased the noise. >> >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> >>> On 27/08/2017, at 7:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> That is an interesting point about the even with your OTS SSB-2010 >> unit running off AA batteries, you hear noise when the DC-DC converter is >> on. I was hoping this noise filter I ordered would do the trick but it >> sounds like maybe , maybe not. I have a friend that works for ATT and he >> also thinks it noise coming in on the power to the OTS unit. What I am >> hoping it is not is acoustic coupling. My transducer is mounted to the FRP >> shell behind the pilot. I am hoping it is not picking up this noise >> through vibrations through the FRP shell. >> >>> >> >>> I well let you know what I learn from the test. >> >>> >> >>> Cliff >> >>> >> >>>> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Alec Smyth via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>>> Hi Cliff, >> >>>> >> >>>> I'll be following that with interest! In Shackleton I have a DC-DC >> converter to step down the 36 volts to 12 for hotel loads. The 12V >> converter output is connected in parallel to a small 12V battery and to >> hotel loads, the idea being that I charge the 12V battery pre-dive and >> switch off the converter while diving to avoid interference. The OTS unit I >> use in native mode, on separate AA batteries to avoid electrical noise, but >> despite this if the DC-DC converter is running it interferes with the comms >> to the point of rendering them useless. If the noise filter is successful >> it would let me charge the hotel battery from the big banks while diving, >> or use the converter as backup, without losing comms. >> >>>> >> >>>> Best, >> >>>> >> >>>> Alec >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Cliff Redus via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>>>> As a lot of you use the OTS underwater comes on your boats so I >> thought I would share with you an issue that came up on the Islamorada >> trip. When I tried to use the OTS comms with my new LED lights on, I >> noticed a loud hum in the OTS headset. When we got the boat back on the >> dock, we did some testing plugging and unplugging the Subcon disconnects to >> each of the four lights. What we found was a cumulative affect, each light >> adding to the noise. These lights use a switching LED driver. There >> seemed to be the same noise level when the lights were on submerged as on >> the surface so think the noise is electrically coupled not acoustically. >> On my boat to keep from changing out AA batteries in the OTS SSB-2010 unit, >> I removed the battery pack and replace it with an circular electrical >> disconnect that brings in 12VDC from boat bus. I use a DC-DC converter to >> power this bus. I am thinking this is a non isolated converter. I spoke >> with the OTS engineers and they said i! >> t was a common problem when folks that make this change and the >> solution was to use a DC noise filter on the power supplied to the unit >> that isolates both the positive and negative power feeds going into the >> unit. They also suggested using an isolated DC power supply. To test this >> I ordered a Palomar Engineers RFI-DC-30 which is a common mode noise filter >> http://palomar-engineers.com/rfi-kits/home-alarm-system-rfi- >> kit#!/DC-Voltage-Common-Mode-Noise-Filter/p/74356250. >> >>>>> Also I hear the thrusters as well as the emergency pinger in the >> OTS gear. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> In the next couple of weeks I plan on doing a shop test to see if >> this works. I will report on what I find. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Regards >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Cliff >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Cliff Redus < >> cliffordredus at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom >> and dad for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was >> the best sub trip of my life! >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip >> and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of >> the 2017 Psub Regatta. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the >> key points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is >> 3.9 miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp >> of 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we ran >> partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to see if we >> could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The deeper >> dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 miles from >> Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so >> even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it >> was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At the second >> dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells. >> Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow back was >> rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster >> both in the boat and in the s! >> ub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and >> 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies >> but it was close. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender >> vessel with launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without >> towing. Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board >> water and upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of >> water. We were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> More latter. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Cliff >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>>>>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the >> 4-day >> >>>>>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, >> August >> >>>>>>> 1-3). >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup >> day >> >>>>>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was >> unfortunate >> >>>>>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >> >>>>>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough >> time >> >>>>>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic >> diving. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >> >>>>>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation >> diver >> >>>>>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >> >>>>>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge >> and >> >>>>>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have >> chatted >> >>>>>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned >> the >> >>>>>>> tow line and helped with comms. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >> >>>>>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >> >>>>>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I >> think >> >>>>>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is >> one of >> >>>>>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift >> for >> >>>>>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >> >>>>>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd >> like >> >>>>>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned >> more >> >>>>>>> than I can remember last week. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing >> whatever >> >>>>>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the >> canal >> >>>>>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was >> getting >> >>>>>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was >> able to >> >>>>>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >> >>>>>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though >> we did >> >>>>>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot >> about >> >>>>>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point >> the tow >> >>>>>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided >> that >> >>>>>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio >> to OTS >> >>>>>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >> >>>>>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the >> Whaler! >> >>>>>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow >> did >> >>>>>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent >> about >> >>>>>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >> >>>>>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time >> Cliff >> >>>>>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at >> 4.5 >> >>>>>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >> >>>>>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I >> think >> >>>>>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >> >>>>>>> accomplishment with the mission. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better >> tow >> >>>>>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our >> boat >> >>>>>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves >> isn't so >> >>>>>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line >> needs to >> >>>>>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow >> vessel >> >>>>>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and >> then >> >>>>>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat >> and >> >>>>>>> sub to track straight). >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the >> waves >> >>>>>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like >> this >> >>>>>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At >> dinner, >> >>>>>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that >> can >> >>>>>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming >> tow >> >>>>>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >> >>>>>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >> >>>>>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will >> lend >> >>>>>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: > hments/20170827/20a3494e/attachment.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 110 >> ****************************************************** >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 26992 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Aug 26 22:57:40 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2017 14:57:40 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report In-Reply-To: References: <99364EC7-0F85-4464-A6FF-B30D6A3C904E@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Cliff, I must have thought 100 lumens per Watt. Look forward to hearing how the noise filter goes. You probably looked at it, but the coms wiring isn't running along side the LED wiring at any point is it! Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 27/08/2017, at 1:48 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, this is the correct unit. The driver is set up for a constant current output of 1.2A, 30V and consumes 37W to get 5000 lumen. Below is the wiring diagram. Don't remember saying it was 50W. > > > Regards > > Cliff > > > >> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 8:27 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Cliff, >> that link is to a buck converter 31V output, 37W. >> Presume this is the wrong unit as you said you ran >> the light at 50W. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 27/08/2017, at 10:53 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> The LED driver I am using https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/recom-power/RCD-24-1.20-W/945-1133-ND/2256313 It combines both buck boost converter switching and pulse width dimming switching in the same enclosure. Not sure which part is causing the noise. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>>> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 5:02 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> I'm curious whether the noise is coming from the buck boost converter switching, or the pulse width dimming switching. When I was designing a PWM dimming driver I had the switching frequency as high as I could get it, trying to get it above the auditory frequency range of dolphins. >>>> >>>> River J Dolfi >>>> Rdolfi7 at gmail.com >>>> 412-997-2526 >>>> >>>> On Aug 26, 2017 5:40 PM, "via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >>>> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >>>> >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >>>> >>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>> than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >>>> >>>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>>> >>>> 1. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2017 09:39:10 +1200 >>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... >>>> Message-ID: <85DB48D2-EF52-4624-9257-7786F10B799D at yahoo.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>> >>>> Cliff, >>>> didn't know the electronics were in the light. >>>> Another experiment, if the suppressor doesn't work could be to put >>>> electronics in the hull. >>>> Have some other ideas, but see how you go! >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> > On 27/08/2017, at 8:57 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Alan, let me do some playing with the LED drivers I have installed. As I have my drivers installed in the body of the LED lights, and body is quite small with a custom PCB, I would not have room for a larger driver. Let me see how this noise suppressor works first. >>>> > >>>> > Best Regards >>>> > >>>> > Cliff >>>> > >>>> >> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >> Cliff, >>>> >> my original buck / boost LED drivers made audible noise at certain >>>> >> settings. I mentioned this to an electronics friend, who said that >>>> >> it was to do with the tuning of the unit. >>>> >> I had 10 new units made up for me in China, at a factory that seems >>>> >> to produce a lot of these buck / boost DC drivers. I made mention >>>> >> of the noise problem & was specific that I wanted a 36V fixed output, >>>> >> along with dimming & on off switch. >>>> >> These new units are a lot audibly quieter. I am guessing they can achieve >>>> >> this easier by not having to also cater for the wide output range. >>>> >> They can operate from about 12V through to 54V. I am now wondering >>>> >> whether having a narrower input power band would help even more. >>>> >> Whether the audible noise corresponds to electrical noise in the frequency >>>> >> that interferes with your coms, I do not know. >>>> >> I can send you one of these drivers for testing if you like, as this is a problem >>>> >> I will be encountering. Just send me your address. >>>> >> alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com >>>> >> The units are designed to output 75W, but this can be dialled down on >>>> >> the dimming pot, or buy a more suitable pot. Again, if the unit ( in your case) >>>> >> was designed to output at 50 W then possibly there would be less noise. >>>> >> It would be interesting to see if dimming them increased the noise. >>>> >> Alan >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Sent from my iPad >>>> >> >>>> >>> On 27/08/2017, at 7:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>> >>>> >>> That is an interesting point about the even with your OTS SSB-2010 unit running off AA batteries, you hear noise when the DC-DC converter is on. I was hoping this noise filter I ordered would do the trick but it sounds like maybe , maybe not. I have a friend that works for ATT and he also thinks it noise coming in on the power to the OTS unit. What I am hoping it is not is acoustic coupling. My transducer is mounted to the FRP shell behind the pilot. I am hoping it is not picking up this noise through vibrations through the FRP shell. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> I well let you know what I learn from the test. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Cliff >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Cliff, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I'll be following that with interest! In Shackleton I have a DC-DC converter to step down the 36 volts to 12 for hotel loads. The 12V converter output is connected in parallel to a small 12V battery and to hotel loads, the idea being that I charge the 12V battery pre-dive and switch off the converter while diving to avoid interference. The OTS unit I use in native mode, on separate AA batteries to avoid electrical noise, but despite this if the DC-DC converter is running it interferes with the comms to the point of rendering them useless. If the noise filter is successful it would let me charge the hotel battery from the big banks while diving, or use the converter as backup, without losing comms. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Alec >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>>> As a lot of you use the OTS underwater comes on your boats so I thought I would share with you an issue that came up on the Islamorada trip. When I tried to use the OTS comms with my new LED lights on, I noticed a loud hum in the OTS headset. When we got the boat back on the dock, we did some testing plugging and unplugging the Subcon disconnects to each of the four lights. What we found was a cumulative affect, each light adding to the noise. These lights use a switching LED driver. There seemed to be the same noise level when the lights were on submerged as on the surface so think the noise is electrically coupled not acoustically. On my boat to keep from changing out AA batteries in the OTS SSB-2010 unit, I removed the battery pack and replace it with an circular electrical disconnect that brings in 12VDC from boat bus. I use a DC-DC converter to power this bus. I am thinking this is a non isolated converter. I spoke with the OTS engineers and they said i! >>>> t was a common problem when folks that make this change and the solution was to use a DC noise filter on the power supplied to the unit that isolates both the positive and negative power feeds going into the unit. They also suggested using an isolated DC power supply. To test this I ordered a Palomar Engineers RFI-DC-30 which is a common mode noise filter http://palomar-engineers.com/rfi-kits/home-alarm-system-rfi-kit#!/DC-Voltage-Common-Mode-Noise-Filter/p/74356250. >>>> >>>>> Also I hear the thrusters as well as the emergency pinger in the OTS gear. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> In the next couple of weeks I plan on doing a shop test to see if this works. I will report on what I find. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Regards >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Cliff >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Cliff Redus wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the best sub trip of my life! >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of the 2017 Psub Regatta. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we ran partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to see if we could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells. Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow back was rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster both in the boat and in the s! >>>> ub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies but it was close. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing. Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board water and upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water. We were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> More latter. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Cliff >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>>>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >>>> >>>>>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >>>> >>>>>>> 1-3). >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>>> >>>>>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >>>> >>>>>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>>> >>>>>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>>> >>>>>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>>> >>>>>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >>>> >>>>>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>>> >>>>>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >>>> >>>>>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >>>> >>>>>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>>> >>>>>>> tow line and helped with comms. >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>>> >>>>>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>>> >>>>>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >>>> >>>>>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>>> >>>>>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >>>> >>>>>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>>> >>>>>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>>> >>>>>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >>>> >>>>>>> than I can remember last week. >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >>>> >>>>>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >>>> >>>>>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>>> >>>>>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >>>> >>>>>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>>> >>>>>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >>>> >>>>>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >>>> >>>>>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >>>> >>>>>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >>>> >>>>>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >>>> >>>>>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>>> >>>>>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >>>> >>>>>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >>>> >>>>>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >>>> >>>>>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>>> >>>>>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>>> >>>>>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >>>> >>>>>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>>> >>>>>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >>>> >>>>>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>>> >>>>>>> accomplishment with the mission. >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >>>> >>>>>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >>>> >>>>>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>>> >>>>>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >>>> >>>>>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >>>> >>>>>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >>>> >>>>>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >>>> >>>>>>> sub to track straight). >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >>>> >>>>>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >>>> >>>>>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>>> >>>>>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >>>> >>>>>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >>>> >>>>>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>>> >>>>>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>>> >>>>>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >>>> >>>>>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Subject: Digest Footer >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 110 >>>> ****************************************************** >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 27 11:08:12 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2017 17:08:12 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus In-Reply-To: References: <20170823182809.F1B74368@m0117567.ppops.net> <0C9CECD4-3A31-46AF-A311-463E1E27D634@yahoo.com> <71372171.1548859.1503549260553@mail.yahoo.com> <1669784804.103789.1503706920521@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1503846492917.334938.e5e3bfe9d77ddc19f8e9bde5b4c2e2c4931a3bf0@spica.telekom.de> Marc most social blog writers are morons - nobs The quote on morons at psubs is much lower. vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus Datum: 2017-08-26T15:48:49+0200 Von: "Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles" An: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" Most Internet users are...people like us. Marc On 8/26/2017 8:22 AM, Ray Keefer via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Howdy, > > I read about this event in the main stream media and thought PSUBS would > have the straight scoop. Don't seem to. > > I won't comment on the case. There are people whose job is chasing down > the truth and in the end they will report out. > > I will comment on the public image. So far PSUBS hasn't been dragged > into this. Which is a good thing. The public comments are of two kinds. > First is sexual innuendo regarding submarines. To be expected since most > internet users are morons. Secondly is how unsafe "homemade" submarines > are. Some are and some are not. I would rate Peter's submarines safe. > Apparently the good work by you PSUBers hasn't reached to general > public. Maybe that is a good thing since most internet users are morons. > > Regards, > Ray > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Alan via Personal_Submersibles > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > *Sent:* Friday, August 25, 2017 3:26 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus > > Now they are re-opening a 1986 murder case where a 22 year old > Japanese tourist's dismembered body was found in a similar location > to that of Kim Wall. > Peter would have had to be about 15 at the time! > Getting more bizarre! > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 24/08/2017, at 4:34 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > >> Love your sense of humor Alan. ?:) >> >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, August 23, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> > > wrote: >> >> >> Yes, he made submarines! >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 24/08/2017, at 1:28 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> > > wrote: >> >>> Truly bizarre !?? Were there any clues that he was deranged ? >>> Brian >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> wrote: >>> >>> From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >>> >> > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> >> > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UC3 Nautilus >>> Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 20:06:02 +0000 (UTC) >>> >>> Hi Alan, >>> >>> I'm not sure Madsen has to say anything more. ?From what I've read, >>> Danish legal scholars believe there is enough circumstantial evidence >>> to convict. ?I also read that murder convictions rarely result in >>> more than 16 years of incarceration because of their belief in >>> rehabilitation. ?Anyone want to sign up for a midnight cruise with >>> Madsen when he gets out? >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 27 16:46:42 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2017 13:46:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] speed controllers In-Reply-To: <831153869.2698871.1503717259442@mail.yahoo.com> References: <742139424.2551123.1503699808245.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <9776AD29-BDAC-4310-B5D8-F0B65CA88369@yahoo.com> <1435105332.2620914.1503705169751@mail.yahoo.com> <466D7B4B-FBC3-435D-A378-DEAED120D0C1@gmail.com> <512465160.2607887.1503707243583@mail.yahoo.com> <831153869.2698871.1503717259442@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, sitting in the shop is nothing like living vicariously thru your videos. Keep them coming. On Aug 25, 2017 8:19 PM, "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, > Honestly I thought I was over doing the video's of Premier Lake, and > everyone was getting bored. Deep test Monday, for Gamma, will take > pictures. > Hank > > > On Friday, August 25, 2017, 7:43:42 PM MDT, David Colombo via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, You don't need any evidence for the wife to see that you were not > working on the house, but you should at least take photos to share with the > rest of us subbers who are still working on our houses because our wives > are watching us. > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > > On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 5:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > My dive today was unexpected because I am supposed to be working on > renovating the house and shop that we are moving into next summer. I have > decided that the house can wait because submarine adventures are more > important. So there, lol. I did not take pictures or video but it was > picturesque with a flat sunny lake and great visibility because it has > not rained in about two months. > Hank > > > On Friday, August 25, 2017, 6:19:31 PM MDT, via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > > Any pictures or video? > > > Cliff Redus > > On Aug 25, 2017, at 6:52 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Alan, > I am going back to switches for now and will get proper controllers over > the winter. Lucky for me I have back up travel motors that saved the day. > Also my inflatable is an absolute dream! can bump into the sub all you > want. Now I just hit the brakes and Gamma drifts off untethered off the > trailer. Then I park the truck and hop in the inflatable to retrieve > Gamma. Nice! > Hank > > > On Friday, August 25, 2017, 5:45:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > > wrote: > > > They should have DC brushless controllers down to a fine art. > There are so many electric bikes & rickshaws over there. > Also they are so dominant in the electric RC market that requires > reliable DC controllers. > Maybe Hank got some backyard manufacturer using parts from > old TVs. > I was told to over size my controller by about double. > Buy a 3000W controller for a 1500W motor. > Also the manufacturers get nervous when you talk about long > wire runs from your battery bank to controller. I am not totally > clued up on this, but have heard it said to add capacitors along > the wire run & twist the wires together to avoid inrush current > from the break down of the electric field in the wiring. The PWM > would cause a constant building up & breaking down of the magnetic > field & a consequent surging of electricity into the input capacitors. > I guess a way around this would be to place the controller as close > as possible to the battery source & run long runs of wire to the speed > control potentiometer & on switch. > These days the controllers have all sorts of parameters you have to > program in to them when they arrive. Gets very confusing! > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 26/08/2017, at 11:15 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > I read a book about manufacturing in China which I found quite interesting: > > "Poorly Made in China" by Paul Midler. > > Gives some of the background explanation behind the lack of quality > control. > > Sean > > > On August 25, 2017 4:23:28 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Well I learned another lesson today. I went for a very unexpected dive in > Gamma today and both new speed controllers quit. Don't buy electronic > parts from China ! Ever! > Hank > > ------------------------------ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 27 16:46:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2017 13:46:43 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Cliff, that's great information. I look forward to the results. On Aug 26, 2017 8:12 AM, "Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > As a lot of you use the OTS underwater comes on your boats so I thought I > would share with you an issue that came up on the Islamorada trip. When > I tried to use the OTS comms with my new LED lights on, I noticed a loud > hum in the OTS headset. When we got the boat back on the dock, we did some > testing plugging and unplugging the Subcon disconnects to each of the four > lights. What we found was a cumulative affect, each light adding to the > noise. These lights use a switching LED driver. There seemed to be the > same noise level when the lights were on submerged as on the surface so > think the noise is electrically coupled not acoustically. On my boat to > keep from changing out AA batteries in the OTS SSB-2010 unit, I removed the > battery pack and replace it with an circular electrical disconnect that > brings in 12VDC from boat bus. I use a DC-DC converter to power this bus. > I am thinking this is a non isolated converter. I spoke with the OTS > engineers and they said it was a common problem when folks that make this > change and the solution was to use a DC noise filter on the power supplied > to the unit that isolates both the positive and negative power feeds going > into the unit. They also suggested using an isolated DC power supply. To > test this I ordered a Palomar Engineers RFI-DC-30 which is a common mode > noise filter http://palomar-engineers.com/rfi-kits/home-alarm-system- > rfi-kit#!/DC-Voltage-Common-Mode-Noise-Filter/p/74356250. > Also I hear the thrusters as well as the emergency pinger in the OTS gear. > > In the next couple of weeks I plan on doing a shop test to see if this > works. I will report on what I find. > > Regards > > Cliff > > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Cliff Redus > wrote: > >> Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad >> for hosting us last week. You guys did a magnificent job. This was the >> best sub trip of my life! >> >> I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip >> and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of >> the 2017 Psub Regatta. >> >> I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key >> points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 >> miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of >> 93F and RH of 80%. Average speed was about 4.5 MPH. As long as we >> ran partially submerged to was hot but fine. This was a test dive to >> see if we could get out deeper. Water was not clear at this location. The >> deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water. The 7.8 >> miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran >> submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad >> at all as it was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At >> the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft >> swells. Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler. The tow >> back was rough. With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller >> coaster both in the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 >> miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around >> 5 hours. I did not loose my cookies but it was close. >> >> As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with >> launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing. >> Towing subs sucks. All survived but I used up all my on board water and >> upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water. We >> were all pretty whipped. All in all, it was quite an adventure. >> >> More latter. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day >>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August >>> 1-3). >>> >>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day >>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate >>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands >>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time >>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving. >>> >>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell, >>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr. >>> >>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver >>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this >>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and >>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted >>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the >>> tow line and helped with comms. >>> >>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men. >>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were >>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think >>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers! >>> >>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of >>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for >>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always >>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like >>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more >>> than I can remember last week. >>> >>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever >>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300. >>> >>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal >>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting >>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean. >>> >>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to >>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We >>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did >>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about >>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow >>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that >>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS >>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the >>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler! >>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did >>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about >>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about, >>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff >>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5 >>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water >>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think >>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great >>> accomplishment with the mission. >>> >>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow >>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat >>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so >>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to >>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel >>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then >>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and >>> sub to track straight). >>> >>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves >>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this >>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner, >>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can >>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow >>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support >>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of >>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend >>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 27 18:42:17 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 10:42:17 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Navigation lights Message-ID: <95A9D3D2-C911-4E71-9A19-BC4CD9328F6D@yahoo.com> Carsten, Psub moron here. Just wondering how you did your navigation lights! Did you oil fill an off the shelf navigation light or make a 1 atm light. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Aug 27 22:29:01 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2017 22:29:01 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations Message-ID: <51722a70-961f-0786-9e80-8f4a5c40ef10@psubs.org> While we're in the middle of an LED investigation, can those of you actively diving with LED lighting give us a guideline on a range of lumens we should be striving for (per lamp), how many lamps, spot or flood? I know Alec was using an oil-filled 3000 lumen lamp on SNOOPY before selling it.? I've been looking at PRIMELUX 8100 lumen lamp that seems like it could be easily adapted for oil or air compensation.? Generally I would say more light is better but also need to be careful about power consumption so I don't want to purchase more light than is necessary for general operations. Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 28 04:07:35 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 10:07:35 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations In-Reply-To: <51722a70-961f-0786-9e80-8f4a5c40ef10@psubs.org> References: <51722a70-961f-0786-9e80-8f4a5c40ef10@psubs.org> Message-ID: <042a01d31fd4$b4d76860$1e863920$@nl> Hi Jon, The Pilotfish team and me developed a UW LED lamp. Since the Norway expedition on my sub. So happy with it that I like to recommend it. It is a Bridgelux Vero 29 unit with 80 Watt (abt. 300 watt Halogen) Wide (90-100 deg) angle but that is okay for a sub. Housing is can go down to 800 M and has a 80 mm OD. Dimmable, I don?t run it at full power. LED driver 6-40 VDC : https://pcb-components.de/led-aufwaertswandler-boost-step-up/led-senser-xtreme-200-2050ma-6v-30v-detail.html Br, Emile -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 28 augustus 2017 4:29 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations While we're in the middle of an LED investigation, can those of you actively diving with LED lighting give us a guideline on a range of lumens we should be striving for (per lamp), how many lamps, spot or flood? I know Alec was using an oil-filled 3000 lumen lamp on SNOOPY before selling it. I've been looking at PRIMELUX 8100 lumen lamp that seems like it could be easily adapted for oil or air compensation. Generally I would say more light is better but also need to be careful about power consumption so I don't want to purchase more light than is necessary for general operations. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 28 07:43:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 11:43:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations In-Reply-To: <51722a70-961f-0786-9e80-8f4a5c40ef10@psubs.org> References: <51722a70-961f-0786-9e80-8f4a5c40ef10@psubs.org> Message-ID: <2003329618.3703887.1503920629679@mail.yahoo.com> Jon,You should not be worried about power consumption, you should have as much lighting as you see fit. ?I have never run low on power and have never wished for more lighting. ? Put on lots of lights. ?I have 24,000 lumen and so far it has been a treat.Hank On Sunday, August 27, 2017, 8:29:23 PM MDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: While we're in the middle of an LED investigation, can those of you actively diving with LED lighting give us a guideline on a range of lumens we should be striving for (per lamp), how many lamps, spot or flood? I know Alec was using an oil-filled 3000 lumen lamp on SNOOPY before selling it.? I've been looking at PRIMELUX 8100 lumen lamp that seems like it could be easily adapted for oil or air compensation.? Generally I would say more light is better but also need to be careful about power consumption so I don't want to purchase more light than is necessary for general operations. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 28 09:11:26 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 08:11:26 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations In-Reply-To: <51722a70-961f-0786-9e80-8f4a5c40ef10@psubs.org> References: <51722a70-961f-0786-9e80-8f4a5c40ef10@psubs.org> Message-ID: Jon on the R300, I am using four 5K lumen Bridgelux Vero-18 lights for a total of 20K lumens. Each light is packaged in a 1 atm enclosure. The LED driver on each is a Lightline REC-24-1.20, which in connection to the array pulls 1200mA at 30V and 36W power. The driver is mounted on a custom PCB that gives polarity and overcurrent protection. Even though the driver is dimmable, I use them at full power. These LEDs pull so little current that I am thinking on adding two more. I am with Hank, the more light the better. Cliff On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 9:29 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > While we're in the middle of an LED investigation, can those of you > actively diving with LED lighting give us a guideline on a range of lumens > we should be striving for (per lamp), how many lamps, spot or flood? > > I know Alec was using an oil-filled 3000 lumen lamp on SNOOPY before > selling it. I've been looking at PRIMELUX 8100 lumen lamp that seems like > it could be easily adapted for oil or air compensation. Generally I would > say more light is better but also need to be careful about power > consumption so I don't want to purchase more light than is necessary for > general operations. > > Jon > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 28 09:52:57 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 08:52:57 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations In-Reply-To: <042a01d31fd4$b4d76860$1e863920$@nl> References: <51722a70-961f-0786-9e80-8f4a5c40ef10@psubs.org> <042a01d31fd4$b4d76860$1e863920$@nl> Message-ID: Emile, a couple of questions: - Are you using the /Bridgelux Vero 29 BXRC-50G10K0-L-24 array, if not what Vero 29 part number? - On the Sensor Extreme LED driver, are you using the 2050mA factory output current? If not, which factory current? This would match pretty well the 2.1A current draw on the Vero 28 at maximum power. - The driver doc says ?Maybe you need to cool the driver, attach him if necessarily with an electrically insulating material such as thermal pad on a metal surface/heat sink?. I don?t see any kind of metal surface on the driver to effectively mechanical/thermally connect this to a heat sink. In your enclosure, do you use a heat sink on the driver? - Is your LED enclosure 1-atm air filled or pressure compensated with oil? - Are you connecting these directly to a 36V nominal AGM battery bank (30-40V)? If so, the driver documentation says ?It is important to ensure that the input voltage <= total-Led voltage. (Boost Principle). If not the LED(s) get to much voltage and can damage! If you had a new fully charged 36v bank, the actual voltage would be around 40V. If the Vero 29 wants 38v, is this an issue? - You said that you do not run the light at full power? Why? - Can you share a picture of the enclosure? - Can you run these lights out of water? - What kind of electrical disconnect to you have on the light enclosure. - This looks like a great LED driver. I am considering it for the 10K PSUB light project which is on hold pending finding a LED driver. Best regards Cliff On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 3:07 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Jon, > > The Pilotfish team and me developed a UW LED lamp. Since the Norway > expedition on my sub. So happy with it that I like to recommend it. > It is a Bridgelux Vero 29 unit with 80 Watt (abt. 300 watt Halogen) Wide > (90-100 deg) angle but that is okay for a sub. Housing is can go down to > 800 M and has a 80 mm OD. > Dimmable, I don?t run it at full power. > LED driver 6-40 VDC : https://pcb-components.de/led- > aufwaertswandler-boost-step-up/led-senser-xtreme-200- > 2050ma-6v-30v-detail.html > > > Br, Emile > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > Namens Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: maandag 28 augustus 2017 4:29 > Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations > > > While we're in the middle of an LED investigation, can those of you > actively diving with LED lighting give us a guideline on a range of lumens > we should be striving for (per lamp), how many lamps, spot or flood? > > I know Alec was using an oil-filled 3000 lumen lamp on SNOOPY before > selling it. I've been looking at PRIMELUX 8100 lumen lamp that seems like > it could be easily adapted for oil or air compensation. Generally I would > say more light is better but also need to be careful about power > consumption so I don't want to purchase more light than is necessary for > general operations. > > Jon > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 28 10:02:48 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 09:02:48 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations In-Reply-To: <042a01d31fd4$b4d76860$1e863920$@nl> References: <51722a70-961f-0786-9e80-8f4a5c40ef10@psubs.org> <042a01d31fd4$b4d76860$1e863920$@nl> Message-ID: Emile one more question. The Sensor Extreme documentation says dimming is controllable with their Led Stripe V4, Nanodim V2 or micro-dim units. Which of these units if any are you using to dim the LED? If not one of these units, are you using a PLC to generate the PWM dimming signal? Cliff On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 3:07 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Jon, > > The Pilotfish team and me developed a UW LED lamp. Since the Norway > expedition on my sub. So happy with it that I like to recommend it. > It is a Bridgelux Vero 29 unit with 80 Watt (abt. 300 watt Halogen) Wide > (90-100 deg) angle but that is okay for a sub. Housing is can go down to > 800 M and has a 80 mm OD. > Dimmable, I don?t run it at full power. > LED driver 6-40 VDC : https://pcb-components.de/led- > aufwaertswandler-boost-step-up/led-senser-xtreme-200- > 2050ma-6v-30v-detail.html > > > Br, Emile > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > Namens Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: maandag 28 augustus 2017 4:29 > Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations > > > While we're in the middle of an LED investigation, can those of you > actively diving with LED lighting give us a guideline on a range of lumens > we should be striving for (per lamp), how many lamps, spot or flood? > > I know Alec was using an oil-filled 3000 lumen lamp on SNOOPY before > selling it. I've been looking at PRIMELUX 8100 lumen lamp that seems like > it could be easily adapted for oil or air compensation. Generally I would > say more light is better but also need to be careful about power > consumption so I don't want to purchase more light than is necessary for > general operations. > > Jon > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 28 10:41:05 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 16:41:05 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Navigation lights In-Reply-To: <95A9D3D2-C911-4E71-9A19-BC4CD9328F6D@yahoo.com> References: <95A9D3D2-C911-4E71-9A19-BC4CD9328F6D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1503931265879.478570.7398ad8ee9ff78311cf3d0b49d4c05f7ff6b06ef@spica.telekom.de> http://www.lopolight.com/ Completely waterproof and vibrationproof: Interior is fully filled and sealed with special potting resin. Waterproof to IP 68+ (submersible). You have to seal the cabel inlet to the wall carefully with sika - that is all. vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Navigation lights Datum: 2017-08-28T00:44:19+0200 Von: "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" An: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" Carsten, Psub moron here. Just wondering how you did your navigation lights! Did you oil fill an off the shelf navigation light or make a 1 atm light. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 28 11:29:40 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 17:29:40 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <51722a70-961f-0786-9e80-8f4a5c40ef10@psubs.org> <042a01d31fd4$b4d76860$1e863920$@nl> Message-ID: <047901d32012$77108d70$6531a850$@nl> Emile, a couple of questions: * Are you using the /Bridgelux Vero 29 BXRC-50G10K0-L-24 array, if not what Vero 29 part number? >> Got them from Antoine. You know the P/n Antoine? * On the Sensor Extreme LED driver, are you using the 2050mA factory output current? If not, which factory current? This would match pretty well the 2.1A current draw on the Vero 28 at maximum power. >max power is even 3 Amps. Funny; if you reduce the voltage with the power supply , the Amps rise. * The driver doc says ?Maybe you need to cool the driver, attach him if necessarily with an electrically insulating material such as thermal pad on a metal surface/heat sink?. I don?t see any kind of metal surface on the driver to effectively mechanical/thermally connect this to a heat sink. In your enclosure, do you use a heat sink on the driver? >> I attached them in a small alu box with thermal conductive double side tape. Works fine. * Is your LED enclosure 1-atm air filled or pressure compensated with oil? >> 1 ATM * Are you connecting these directly to a 36V nominal AGM battery bank (30-40V)? If so, the driver documentation says ?It is important to ensure that the input voltage <= total-Led voltage. (Boost Principle). If not the LED(s) get to much voltage and can damage! If you had a new fully charged 36v bank, the actual voltage would be around 40V. If the Vero 29 wants 38v, is this an issue? >> Up to you to test .. I run on a 24 VDC system. * You said that you do not run the light at full power? Why? >> No time for a a dimmer and test program. * Can you share a picture of the enclosure? see attachment. Evt for sale. * Can you run these lights out of water? ? To be tested. At this stage (2 Amps for 2 LEDS) It cam be use out of the water.LED array is mounted with thermal conductive paste. * What kind of electrical disconnect to you have on the light enclosure. >> Blueglobe * This looks like a great LED driver. I am considering it for the 10K PSUB light project which is on hold pending finding a LED driver. >> sure! I run 2 LEDs parallel on one driver . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oc6-9CzQNM&t=390s ? Emile one more question. The Sensor Extreme documentation says dimming is controllable with their Led Stripe V4, Nanodim V2 or micro-dim units. Which of these units if any are you using to dim the LED? If not one of these units, are you using a PLC to generate the PWM dimming signal? ? I am a mechanical guy.. Now has fixed amps. Will make 3 stages later on. Best regards Cliff On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 3:07 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Jon, The Pilotfish team and me developed a UW LED lamp. Since the Norway expedition on my sub. So happy with it that I like to recommend it. It is a Bridgelux Vero 29 unit with 80 Watt (abt. 300 watt Halogen) Wide (90-100 deg) angle but that is okay for a sub. Housing is can go down to 800 M and has a 80 mm OD. Dimmable, I don?t run it at full power. LED driver 6-40 VDC : https://pcb-components.de/led-aufwaertswandler-boost-step-up/led-senser-xtreme-200-2050ma-6v-30v-detail.html Br, Emile -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 28 augustus 2017 4:29 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations While we're in the middle of an LED investigation, can those of you actively diving with LED lighting give us a guideline on a range of lumens we should be striving for (per lamp), how many lamps, spot or flood? I know Alec was using an oil-filled 3000 lumen lamp on SNOOPY before selling it. I've been looking at PRIMELUX 8100 lumen lamp that seems like it could be easily adapted for oil or air compensation. Generally I would say more light is better but also need to be careful about power consumption so I don't want to purchase more light than is necessary for general operations. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: P1140644-1024x768.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 79377 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 28 16:37:01 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 08:37:01 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Navigation lights In-Reply-To: <1503931265879.478570.7398ad8ee9ff78311cf3d0b49d4c05f7ff6b06ef@spica.telekom.de> References: <95A9D3D2-C911-4E71-9A19-BC4CD9328F6D@yahoo.com> <1503931265879.478570.7398ad8ee9ff78311cf3d0b49d4c05f7ff6b06ef@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <10CA4D8F-57AE-4E32-8913-7ED26A0CB8F3@yahoo.com> Thanks Carsten. They are expensive; might see what $20- lights I can oil compensate! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 29/08/2017, at 2:41 AM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > http://www.lopolight.com/ > > Completely waterproof and vibrationproof: Interior is fully filled and sealed with special potting resin. > Waterproof to IP 68+ (submersible). > > You have to seal the cabel inlet to the wall carefully with sika - that is all. > > vbr Carsten > > -----Original-Nachricht----- > Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Navigation lights > Datum: 2017-08-28T00:44:19+0200 > Von: "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" > An: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" > > Carsten, > Psub moron here. Just wondering how you did your navigation lights! > Did you oil fill an off the shelf navigation light or make a 1 atm light. > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 28 18:26:17 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 10:26:17 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations In-Reply-To: <047901d32012$77108d70$6531a850$@nl> References: <51722a70-961f-0786-9e80-8f4a5c40ef10@psubs.org> <042a01d31fd4$b4d76860$1e863920$@nl> <047901d32012$77108d70$6531a850$@nl> Message-ID: <97DBEE75-6696-46B2-8B6B-5377D95E8A9F@yahoo.com> Jon, Cliff. From what I can gather, car headlights put out about 3,500 lumens off 35W. But we are looking all around & not just straight ahead. If you have good visibility then why not take the daylight down with you. I am using 2 x 70W ( 7000 lumen ) LEDs out front like headlights & one out either side, as I have a set up similar to Cliff with 360 view. I am putting one out the back that will double for my rear navigation light & for backing out of caves. Also I am having a spot light that will be above the water when surfaced, but give penetration if needed when underwater. A cave diver had recommended the spot as well as a flood to illuminate cave walls etc in the distance. All lights have dimming so I can use my generic flood light as my navigation light & because back scatter in low visibility water with a lot of muck in it will blind you. Cliff, the high powered LEDs are very voltage tolerant on the high side. They are not tolerant of over current I was told this, & also inadvertently ran a 36V LED off 80V, which survived. The LEDs spec sheet may or may not confirm this but if you email the manufacturers tech support they may be able to help you. I have a contact in the Chinese firm that manufactures the bridgelux. If you want to give me the specs I can send him an email. With regard to the driver overheating; my old driver had large mosfetts that were bent over on to the board, & the board sat on a large heat sink. my new driver doesn't have any large mosfetts, nor heat sink. There is a coil that is inside a small enclosure to shield it, & this gets hot when driven at about 65 - 80W. I have ordered some aluminium enclosures with slots for mounting the PCB & will heat sink this component to the housing some how. Have been looking at heat transferring epoxy, but don't want a piece of aluminium coming unstuck & shorting my electronics. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 29/08/2017, at 3:29 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > Emile, a couple of questions: > Are you using the /Bridgelux Vero 29 BXRC-50G10K0-L-24 array, if not what Vero 29 part number? > >> Got them from Antoine. You know the P/n Antoine? > On the Sensor Extreme LED driver, are you using the 2050mA factory output current? If not, which factory current? This would match pretty well the 2.1A current draw on the Vero 28 at maximum power. > >max power is even 3 Amps. Funny; if you reduce the voltage with the power supply , the Amps rise. > The driver doc says ?Maybe you need to cool the driver, attach him if necessarily with an electrically insulating material such as thermal pad on a metal surface/heat sink?. I don?t see any kind of metal surface on the driver to effectively mechanical/thermally connect this to a heat sink. In your enclosure, do you use a heat sink on the driver? > >> I attached them in a small alu box with thermal conductive double side tape. Works fine. > Is your LED enclosure 1-atm air filled or pressure compensated with oil? > >> 1 ATM > Are you connecting these directly to a 36V nominal AGM battery bank (30-40V)? If so, the driver documentation says ?It is important to ensure that the input voltage <= total-Led voltage. (Boost Principle). If not the LED(s) get to much voltage and can damage! If you had a new fully charged 36v bank, the actual voltage would be around 40V. If the Vero 29 wants 38v, is this an issue? > >> Up to you to test .. I run on a 24 VDC system. > You said that you do not run the light at full power? Why? > >> No time for a a dimmer and test program. > Can you share a picture of the enclosure? > see attachment. Evt for sale. > Can you run these lights out of water? > ? To be tested. At this stage (2 Amps for 2 LEDS) It cam be use out of the water.LED array is mounted with thermal conductive paste. > What kind of electrical disconnect to you have on the light enclosure. > >> Blueglobe > This looks like a great LED driver. I am considering it for the 10K PSUB light project which is on hold pending finding a LED driver. > >> sure! I run 2 LEDs parallel on one driver . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oc6-9CzQNM&t=390s > ? Emile one more question. The Sensor Extreme documentation says dimming is controllable with their Led Stripe V4, Nanodim V2 or micro-dim units. Which of these units if any are you using to dim the LED? If not one of these units, are you using a PLC to generate the PWM dimming signal? > ? I am a mechanical guy.. Now has fixed amps. Will make 3 stages later on. > > Best regards > > Cliff > > On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 3:07 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Jon, > > The Pilotfish team and me developed a UW LED lamp. Since the Norway expedition on my sub. So happy with it that I like to recommend it. > It is a Bridgelux Vero 29 unit with 80 Watt (abt. 300 watt Halogen) Wide (90-100 deg) angle but that is okay for a sub. Housing is can go down to 800 M and has a 80 mm OD. > Dimmable, I don?t run it at full power. > LED driver 6-40 VDC : https://pcb-components.de/led-aufwaertswandler-boost-step-up/led-senser-xtreme-200-2050ma-6v-30v-detail.html > > > Br, Emile > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: maandag 28 augustus 2017 4:29 > Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations > > > While we're in the middle of an LED investigation, can those of you actively diving with LED lighting give us a guideline on a range of lumens we should be striving for (per lamp), how many lamps, spot or flood? > > I know Alec was using an oil-filled 3000 lumen lamp on SNOOPY before selling it. I've been looking at PRIMELUX 8100 lumen lamp that seems like it could be easily adapted for oil or air compensation. Generally I would say more light is better but also need to be careful about power consumption so I don't want to purchase more light than is necessary for general operations. > > Jon > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 28 19:24:52 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 18:24:52 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations In-Reply-To: <97DBEE75-6696-46B2-8B6B-5377D95E8A9F@yahoo.com> References: <51722a70-961f-0786-9e80-8f4a5c40ef10@psubs.org> <042a01d31fd4$b4d76860$1e863920$@nl> <047901d32012$77108d70$6531a850$@nl> <97DBEE75-6696-46B2-8B6B-5377D95E8A9F@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan, this is the Bridglux Vero 29 that we were working on. https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/bridgelux/BXRC-50C10K0-L-24/976-1277-ND/5180249 Spec says (last line) [image: Inline image 1] 38V at 2100 mA. Looks like the driver Emile posted would handle this for both a 24V and 36Vnominal system. It could also replace the custom PCB I am using in 5K lights I have installed on my boat. The questing to ask your rep. is if hit this array with 40VDC, would it tolerate it at 2100 mA? Based on your comment and experience, it sounds like it would. Can you send me the manufacuter of the heat transferring epoxy? I am woundering if I could pot these tiny drivers in a 1 atm enclosure to improve heat transfer. Best Regards Cliff PS: We missed you at Islamorada. On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Jon, Cliff. > From what I can gather, car headlights put out about 3,500 lumens off > 35W. But we are looking all around & not just straight ahead. If you have > good > visibility then why not take the daylight down with you. > I am using 2 x 70W ( 7000 lumen ) LEDs out front like headlights & > one out either side, as I have a set up similar to Cliff with 360 view. > I am putting one out the back that will double for my rear navigation > light & for backing out of caves. Also I am having a spot light that will > be above the water when surfaced, but give penetration if needed when > underwater. A cave diver had recommended the spot as well as a flood > to illuminate cave walls etc in the distance. > All lights have dimming so I can use my generic flood light as my > navigation > light & because back scatter in low visibility water with a lot of muck in > it will blind you. > Cliff, the high powered LEDs are very voltage tolerant on the high side. > They are not tolerant of over current > I was told this, & also inadvertently ran a 36V LED off 80V, which > survived. > The LEDs spec sheet may or may not confirm this but if you email the > manufacturers tech support they may be able to help you. I have a > contact in the Chinese firm that manufactures the bridgelux. If you want > to give me the specs I can send him an email. > With regard to the driver overheating; my old driver had large mosfetts > that were bent over on to the board, & the board sat on a large heat sink. > my new driver doesn't have any large mosfetts, nor heat sink. There is a > coil > that is inside a small enclosure to shield it, & this gets hot when > driven at about > 65 - 80W. I have ordered some aluminium enclosures with slots for mounting > the PCB & will heat sink this component to the housing some how. Have been > looking at heat transferring epoxy, but don't want a piece of aluminium > coming unstuck & shorting my electronics. > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 29/08/2017, at 3:29 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Emile, a couple of questions: > > - Are you using the /Bridgelux Vero 29 BXRC-50G10K0-L-24 array, if not > what Vero 29 part number? > > >> Got them from Antoine. You know the P/n Antoine? > > - On the Sensor Extreme LED driver, are you using the 2050mA factory > output current? If not, which factory current? This would match pretty > well the 2.1A current draw on the Vero 28 at maximum power. > > >max power is even 3 Amps. Funny; if you reduce the voltage with the power > supply , the Amps rise. > > - The driver doc says ?Maybe you need to cool the driver, attach him > if necessarily with an electrically insulating material such as thermal pad > on a metal surface/heat sink?. I don?t see any kind of metal surface on > the driver to effectively mechanical/thermally connect this to a heat > sink. In your enclosure, do you use a heat sink on the driver? > > >> I attached them in a small alu box with thermal conductive double side > tape. Works fine. > > - Is your LED enclosure 1-atm air filled or pressure compensated with > oil? > > >> 1 ATM > > - Are you connecting these directly to a 36V nominal AGM battery bank > (30-40V)? If so, the driver documentation says ?It is important to > ensure that the input voltage <= total-Led voltage. (Boost Principle). If > not the LED(s) get to much voltage and can damage! If you had a new fully > charged 36v bank, the actual voltage would be around 40V. If the Vero 29 > wants 38v, is this an issue? > > >> Up to you to test .. I run on a 24 VDC system. > > - You said that you do not run the light at full power? Why? > > >> No time for a a dimmer and test program. > > - Can you share a picture of the enclosure? > > see attachment. Evt for sale. > > - Can you run these lights out of water? > > ? To be tested. At this stage (2 Amps for 2 LEDS) It cam be use out of > the water.LED array is mounted with thermal conductive paste. > > - What kind of electrical disconnect to you have on the light > enclosure. > > >> Blueglobe > > - This looks like a great LED driver. I am considering it for the 10K > PSUB light project which is on hold pending finding a LED driver. > > >> sure! I run 2 LEDs parallel on one driver . > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oc6-9CzQNM&t=390s > > ? Emile one more question. The Sensor Extreme documentation says > dimming is controllable with their Led Stripe V4, Nanodim V2 or micro-dim > units. Which of these units if any are you using to dim the LED? If not > one of these units, are you using a PLC to generate the PWM dimming signal? > > ? I am a mechanical guy.. Now has fixed amps. Will make 3 stages later > on. > > > > Best regards > > > > Cliff > > > > On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 3:07 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Jon, > > The Pilotfish team and me developed a UW LED lamp. Since the Norway > expedition on my sub. So happy with it that I like to recommend it. > It is a Bridgelux Vero 29 unit with 80 Watt (abt. 300 watt Halogen) Wide > (90-100 deg) angle but that is okay for a sub. Housing is can go down to > 800 M and has a 80 mm OD. > Dimmable, I don?t run it at full power. > LED driver 6-40 VDC : https://pcb-components.de/led- > aufwaertswandler-boost-step-up/led-senser-xtreme-200- > 2050ma-6v-30v-detail.html > > > Br, Emile > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > Namens Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: maandag 28 augustus 2017 4:29 > Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations > > > While we're in the middle of an LED investigation, can those of you > actively diving with LED lighting give us a guideline on a range of lumens > we should be striving for (per lamp), how many lamps, spot or flood? > > I know Alec was using an oil-filled 3000 lumen lamp on SNOOPY before > selling it. I've been looking at PRIMELUX 8100 lumen lamp that seems like > it could be easily adapted for oil or air compensation. Generally I would > say more light is better but also need to be careful about power > consumption so I don't want to purchase more light than is necessary for > general operations. > > Jon > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 99572 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 28 19:27:45 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 16:27:45 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Navigation lights Message-ID: <20170828162745.F1B3B1A1@m0117460.ppops.net> Alan, That's what I've been contemplating, after endless other expenses ! Also I think for the time being I will have a magnetic or attaching navigation unit that I can keep inside and just bring it out if I'm traveling at night. Just have one 3- way navigation light 112.5 112.5 and 135. Maybe have it self contained with a battery unit. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Navigation lights Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 08:37:01 +1200 Thanks Carsten. They are expensive; might see what $20- lights I can oil compensate! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 29/08/2017, at 2:41 AM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > http://www.lopolight.com/ > > Completely waterproof and vibrationproof: Interior is fully filled and sealed with special potting resin. > Waterproof to IP 68+ (submersible). > > You have to seal the cabel inlet to the wall carefully with sika - that is all. > > vbr Carsten > > -----Original-Nachricht----- > Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Navigation lights > Datum: 2017-08-28T00:44:19+0200 > Von: "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" > An: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" > > Carsten, > Psub moron here. Just wondering how you did your navigation lights! > Did you oil fill an off the shelf navigation light or make a 1 atm light. > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 28 19:37:48 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 11:37:48 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Navigation lights In-Reply-To: <20170828162745.F1B3B1A1@m0117460.ppops.net> References: <20170828162745.F1B3B1A1@m0117460.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, that's not a bad idea! Especially for the little time that you would probably need them! I will have mine fixed as I may not be able to attach them if the waves got up! Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 29/08/2017, at 11:27 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, That's what I've been contemplating, after endless other expenses ! Also I think for the time being I will have a magnetic or attaching navigation unit that I can keep inside and just bring it out if I'm traveling at night. Just have one 3- way navigation light 112.5 112.5 and 135. Maybe have it self contained with a battery unit. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Navigation lights > Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 08:37:01 +1200 > > Thanks Carsten. > They are expensive; might see what $20- lights I > can oil compensate! > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 29/08/2017, at 2:41 AM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> http://www.lopolight.com/ >> >> Completely waterproof and vibrationproof: Interior is fully filled and sealed with special potting resin. >> Waterproof to IP 68+ (submersible). >> >> You have to seal the cabel inlet to the wall carefully with sika - that is all. >> >> vbr Carsten >> >> -----Original-Nachricht----- >> Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Navigation lights >> Datum: 2017-08-28T00:44:19+0200 >> Von: "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" >> An: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" >> >> Carsten, >> Psub moron here. Just wondering how you did your navigation lights! >> Did you oil fill an off the shelf navigation light or make a 1 atm light. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> ? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 28 20:23:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 12:23:56 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <51722a70-961f-0786-9e80-8f4a5c40ef10@psubs.org> <042a01d31fd4$b4d76860$1e863920$@nl> <047901d32012$77108d70$6531a850$@nl> <97DBEE75-6696-46B2-8B6B-5377D95E8A9F@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Cliff, sent off the email. You are right, they only give typical voltage not maximum. This is an American manufacturer of heat transferring epoxies. https://www.masterbond.com/properties/thermally-conductive-epoxy-adhesives?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI04GBoJT71QIVjggqCh23EwjCEAAYASAAEgLuiPD_BwE I pulled my washing machine apart & found the electronics were embedded in a half inch deep silicone of some sorts. You may find a similar product in their conformal coating range. https://www.masterbond.com/industries/conformal-coatings?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_MaYnpb71QIVDQQqCh0aWgWdEAAYAiAAEgIeffD_BwE Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 29/08/2017, at 11:24 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, this is the Bridglux Vero 29 that we were working on. https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/bridgelux/BXRC-50C10K0-L-24/976-1277-ND/5180249 Spec says (last line) > > 38V at 2100 mA. Looks like the driver Emile posted would handle this for both a 24V and 36Vnominal system. It could also replace the custom PCB I am using in 5K lights I have installed on my boat. The questing to ask your rep. is if hit this array with 40VDC, would it tolerate it at 2100 mA? Based on your comment and experience, it sounds like it would. Can you send me the manufacuter of the heat transferring epoxy? I am woundering if I could pot these tiny drivers in a 1 atm enclosure to improve heat transfer. > > Best Regards > > Cliff > > PS: We missed you at Islamorada. > > > > > > > > >> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Jon, Cliff. >> From what I can gather, car headlights put out about 3,500 lumens off >> 35W. But we are looking all around & not just straight ahead. If you have good >> visibility then why not take the daylight down with you. >> I am using 2 x 70W ( 7000 lumen ) LEDs out front like headlights & >> one out either side, as I have a set up similar to Cliff with 360 view. >> I am putting one out the back that will double for my rear navigation >> light & for backing out of caves. Also I am having a spot light that will >> be above the water when surfaced, but give penetration if needed when >> underwater. A cave diver had recommended the spot as well as a flood >> to illuminate cave walls etc in the distance. >> All lights have dimming so I can use my generic flood light as my navigation >> light & because back scatter in low visibility water with a lot of muck in >> it will blind you. >> Cliff, the high powered LEDs are very voltage tolerant on the high side. >> They are not tolerant of over current >> I was told this, & also inadvertently ran a 36V LED off 80V, which survived. >> The LEDs spec sheet may or may not confirm this but if you email the >> manufacturers tech support they may be able to help you. I have a >> contact in the Chinese firm that manufactures the bridgelux. If you want >> to give me the specs I can send him an email. >> With regard to the driver overheating; my old driver had large mosfetts >> that were bent over on to the board, & the board sat on a large heat sink. >> my new driver doesn't have any large mosfetts, nor heat sink. There is a coil >> that is inside a small enclosure to shield it, & this gets hot when driven at about >> 65 - 80W. I have ordered some aluminium enclosures with slots for mounting >> the PCB & will heat sink this component to the housing some how. Have been >> looking at heat transferring epoxy, but don't want a piece of aluminium >> coming unstuck & shorting my electronics. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 29/08/2017, at 3:29 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Emile, a couple of questions: >>> >>> Are you using the /Bridgelux Vero 29 BXRC-50G10K0-L-24 array, if not what Vero 29 part number? >>> >> Got them from Antoine. You know the P/n Antoine? >>> >>> On the Sensor Extreme LED driver, are you using the 2050mA factory output current? If not, which factory current? This would match pretty well the 2.1A current draw on the Vero 28 at maximum power. >>> >max power is even 3 Amps. Funny; if you reduce the voltage with the power supply , the Amps rise. >>> >>> The driver doc says ?Maybe you need to cool the driver, attach him if necessarily with an electrically insulating material such as thermal pad on a metal surface/heat sink?. I don?t see any kind of metal surface on the driver to effectively mechanical/thermally connect this to a heat sink. In your enclosure, do you use a heat sink on the driver? >>> >> I attached them in a small alu box with thermal conductive double side tape. Works fine. >>> >>> Is your LED enclosure 1-atm air filled or pressure compensated with oil? >>> >> 1 ATM >>> >>> Are you connecting these directly to a 36V nominal AGM battery bank (30-40V)? If so, the driver documentation says ?It is important to ensure that the input voltage <= total-Led voltage. (Boost Principle). If not the LED(s) get to much voltage and can damage! If you had a new fully charged 36v bank, the actual voltage would be around 40V. If the Vero 29 wants 38v, is this an issue? >>> >> Up to you to test .. I run on a 24 VDC system. >>> >>> You said that you do not run the light at full power? Why? >>> >> No time for a a dimmer and test program. >>> >>> Can you share a picture of the enclosure? >>> see attachment. Evt for sale. >>> >>> Can you run these lights out of water? >>> ? To be tested. At this stage (2 Amps for 2 LEDS) It cam be use out of the water.LED array is mounted with thermal conductive paste. >>> >>> What kind of electrical disconnect to you have on the light enclosure. >>> >> Blueglobe >>> >>> This looks like a great LED driver. I am considering it for the 10K PSUB light project which is on hold pending finding a LED driver. >>> >> sure! I run 2 LEDs parallel on one driver . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oc6-9CzQNM&t=390s >>> >>> ? Emile one more question. The Sensor Extreme documentation says dimming is controllable with their Led Stripe V4, Nanodim V2 or micro-dim units. Which of these units if any are you using to dim the LED? If not one of these units, are you using a PLC to generate the PWM dimming signal? >>> >>> ? I am a mechanical guy.. Now has fixed amps. Will make 3 stages later on. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best regards >>> >>> >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 3:07 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi Jon, >>> >>> The Pilotfish team and me developed a UW LED lamp. Since the Norway expedition on my sub. So happy with it that I like to recommend it. >>> It is a Bridgelux Vero 29 unit with 80 Watt (abt. 300 watt Halogen) Wide (90-100 deg) angle but that is okay for a sub. Housing is can go down to 800 M and has a 80 mm OD. >>> Dimmable, I don?t run it at full power. >>> LED driver 6-40 VDC : https://pcb-components.de/led-aufwaertswandler-boost-step-up/led-senser-xtreme-200-2050ma-6v-30v-detail.html >>> >>> >>> Br, Emile >>> >>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >>> Verzonden: maandag 28 augustus 2017 4:29 >>> Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations >>> >>> >>> While we're in the middle of an LED investigation, can those of you actively diving with LED lighting give us a guideline on a range of lumens we should be striving for (per lamp), how many lamps, spot or flood? >>> >>> I know Alec was using an oil-filled 3000 lumen lamp on SNOOPY before selling it. I've been looking at PRIMELUX 8100 lumen lamp that seems like it could be easily adapted for oil or air compensation. Generally I would say more light is better but also need to be careful about power consumption so I don't want to purchase more light than is necessary for general operations. >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 28 21:50:10 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 01:50:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] pressure test References: <1752388631.4356803.1503971410325.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1752388631.4356803.1503971410325@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,Gamma has made it home without a scratch or a drop of water inside after the ?pressure test. ?It was an eventful day, we had a brake line fail 2 hr into the trip. ?I had to stop in Creston BC to buy a hand full of bits and pieces to repair the brake line and we back on the road. ?I launched no problem but then the problems started. ?About 100m ?off shore a relay burt up and gave me a smokey sub and I lost propulsion on a main motor. ?That left me with two small ?30lb thrust motors to continue to deep water. ?I was not stopping even if I had to row out there. ? I sank Gamma and waited an hr to retrieve her. ?I pulled on the line that sends air to the MBT's and it came up quite slow. ?When it hit the surface it was stern down drastically,,,weird? ? well it turn out the the aft mbt was not getting air because the inside hull stop was not on, even though I checked it? ?well turns out the arrow shaped tee handle needs to be oriented 90 degrees to the air line,weird. ?My mistake. ?Well now the fun started, I could not go into the sub to open the valve and I was not sure what the problem was exactly because I also replaced the two MBT valves with new 6,000 psi ss needle valves yesterday ?so ?I ?thought one might be faulty. ? I tried blocking the air to the front mbt by pinching the lines and no luck of coarse. ?I was then forced to push the sub ?back to the ramp with my inflatable with a 32lb thrust motor. ?That trip took an hr. ?Once I was back at the ramp I could enter the sub and turn the aft mbt valve open and all was fine, I surface the stern and loaded her up and drove home. ?I now know the sub can surface on just the front mbt and I could open the hatch with the aft tanks flooded. ?A short video is loading on youtube right now. ?Will post shortly.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Aug 28 23:54:20 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 15:54:20 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED maximum forward voltage In-Reply-To: <510240396EE158FCF0B4C7362A5AD22B284496720@TYF-LED.COM> References: <953843373B2031919EB464DD61D491A7D4BFE4A7E@YAHOO.COM> <510240396EE158FCF0B4C7362A5AD22B284496720@TYF-LED.COM> Message-ID: <41FBB524-3BE8-4D2A-8559-0B447D3B3BE4@yahoo.com> Cliff, below is the reply from Kevin. In the past he has asked questions from engineers for me, but is just quoting a data sheet here. I know that their test criteria for maximum temperature is well above their recommended temperature & they test for something like 1000 hrs. These are designed to be run in buildings continuously so I don't think a small over voltage for a short time in our application is going to be harmful. Might see if I can extract a bit more from him. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 29/08/2017, at 2:15 PM, Kevin SG wrote: > > Hello Alan, > > Hope everything goes well.\ > > I get the information from the website what you share, and it is Bridgelux COB modular, There are more details in datasheet. i found the information as following, hope can help you a lot. > <10150101293.jpg> > Led Modular max Voltage can be 40.9 if Current is 2100mA. > > if voltage is low, the led can not be light up, if voltage is high, the brightness will be high, but if >40.9(max Voltage), LED easy to be damaged. > > More details, find the attached file please. > > Best Regards > Kevin > Sales Engineer > > Shenzhen TongYiFang Opto-electronic Technology Co., Ltd. > <10150102152.bmp> > Headquaters: Building 1 and 3, Xinlianhe Industrial Park, No.3 Jincheng Road, Shajing Town, Bao'an District, Shenzhen, 518104 China. > Mobile: +86-13286655146 > Whats App: +86-13286655146 > Skype: tyfkevin > Website: www.tyf-led.com > > --------------- Original Message ---------- > From: Alan ; > To: ; > Sent: 2017-08-29 08:11 > Subject: LED maximum forward voltage > > Hi Kevin, > hope you are keeping well. > My lights are looking great & have had a custom driver made for them. > I have a fellow submarine builder who is developing an open source > submersible light using this item... > https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/bridgelux/BXRC-50C10K0-L-24/976-1277-ND/5180249 > We are generally operating off a 36V battery pack. This voltage can vary to more than 40V depending on the state of charge. We cannot see any maximum forward voltage > rating for this LED. > Can you advise of the maximum forward voltage & also will it tolerate 2100ma at > 40V. Any advice on the adverse effects of running the voltage too > high would be appreciated. > Kind regards > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 29 06:12:51 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 11:12:51 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] speed controllers In-Reply-To: <831153869.2698871.1503717259442@mail.yahoo.com> References: <742139424.2551123.1503699808245.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <9776AD29-BDAC-4310-B5D8-F0B65CA88369@yahoo.com> <1435105332.2620914.1503705169751@mail.yahoo.com> <466D7B4B-FBC3-435D-A378-DEAED120D0C1@gmail.com> <512465160.2607887.1503707243583@mail.yahoo.com> <831153869.2698871.1503717259442@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank. we never get bored of sub videos, even if they are similar..... On 26 August 2017 at 04:14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, > Honestly I thought I was over doing the video's of Premier Lake, and > everyone was getting bored. Deep test Monday, for Gamma, will take > pictures. > Hank > > > On Friday, August 25, 2017, 7:43:42 PM MDT, David Colombo via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, You don't need any evidence for the wife to see that you were not > working on the house, but you should at least take photos to share with the > rest of us subbers who are still working on our houses because our wives > are watching us. > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > > On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 5:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > My dive today was unexpected because I am supposed to be working on > renovating the house and shop that we are moving into next summer. I have > decided that the house can wait because submarine adventures are more > important. So there, lol. I did not take pictures or video but it was > picturesque with a flat sunny lake and great visibility because it has > not rained in about two months. > Hank > > > On Friday, August 25, 2017, 6:19:31 PM MDT, via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > > Any pictures or video? > > > Cliff Redus > > On Aug 25, 2017, at 6:52 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Alan, > I am going back to switches for now and will get proper controllers over > the winter. Lucky for me I have back up travel motors that saved the day. > Also my inflatable is an absolute dream! can bump into the sub all you > want. Now I just hit the brakes and Gamma drifts off untethered off the > trailer. Then I park the truck and hop in the inflatable to retrieve > Gamma. Nice! > Hank > > > On Friday, August 25, 2017, 5:45:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > > wrote: > > > They should have DC brushless controllers down to a fine art. > There are so many electric bikes & rickshaws over there. > Also they are so dominant in the electric RC market that requires > reliable DC controllers. > Maybe Hank got some backyard manufacturer using parts from > old TVs. > I was told to over size my controller by about double. > Buy a 3000W controller for a 1500W motor. > Also the manufacturers get nervous when you talk about long > wire runs from your battery bank to controller. I am not totally > clued up on this, but have heard it said to add capacitors along > the wire run & twist the wires together to avoid inrush current > from the break down of the electric field in the wiring. The PWM > would cause a constant building up & breaking down of the magnetic > field & a consequent surging of electricity into the input capacitors. > I guess a way around this would be to place the controller as close > as possible to the battery source & run long runs of wire to the speed > control potentiometer & on switch. > These days the controllers have all sorts of parameters you have to > program in to them when they arrive. Gets very confusing! > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 26/08/2017, at 11:15 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > I read a book about manufacturing in China which I found quite interesting: > > "Poorly Made in China" by Paul Midler. > > Gives some of the background explanation behind the lack of quality > control. > > Sean > > > On August 25, 2017 4:23:28 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Well I learned another lesson today. I went for a very unexpected dive in > Gamma today and both new speed controllers quit. Don't buy electronic > parts from China ! Ever! > Hank > > ------------------------------ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 29 08:06:30 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 12:06:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1800717115.4566869.1504008390830@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,Here is a short video. ?Note the smoke from forest fires in the background.Hank ----- Forwarded Message -----From: xxx xxxxx To: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017, 6:04:59 AM MDTSubject: pressure test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CSSqP0CKoc&t=16s -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2017-08-29 at 6.04 AM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 11002 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 29 13:32:24 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 12:32:24 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations In-Reply-To: <042a01d31fd4$b4d76860$1e863920$@nl> References: <51722a70-961f-0786-9e80-8f4a5c40ef10@psubs.org> <042a01d31fd4$b4d76860$1e863920$@nl> Message-ID: Emile, I need to buy two of these LED drivers. Web site is only in German. Do you know if PCB Components has a distributer in the US? Best Regards Cliff On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 3:07 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Jon, > > The Pilotfish team and me developed a UW LED lamp. Since the Norway > expedition on my sub. So happy with it that I like to recommend it. > It is a Bridgelux Vero 29 unit with 80 Watt (abt. 300 watt Halogen) Wide > (90-100 deg) angle but that is okay for a sub. Housing is can go down to > 800 M and has a 80 mm OD. > Dimmable, I don?t run it at full power. > LED driver 6-40 VDC : https://pcb-components.de/led- > aufwaertswandler-boost-step-up/led-senser-xtreme-200- > 2050ma-6v-30v-detail.html > > > Br, Emile > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > Namens Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: maandag 28 augustus 2017 4:29 > Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations > > > While we're in the middle of an LED investigation, can those of you > actively diving with LED lighting give us a guideline on a range of lumens > we should be striving for (per lamp), how many lamps, spot or flood? > > I know Alec was using an oil-filled 3000 lumen lamp on SNOOPY before > selling it. I've been looking at PRIMELUX 8100 lumen lamp that seems like > it could be easily adapted for oil or air compensation. Generally I would > say more light is better but also need to be careful about power > consumption so I don't want to purchase more light than is necessary for > general operations. > > Jon > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 29 15:56:05 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 21:56:05 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <51722a70-961f-0786-9e80-8f4a5c40ef10@psubs.org> <042a01d31fd4$b4d76860$1e863920$@nl> Message-ID: <050e01d32100$d9cdb4d0$8d691e70$@nl> Hi Cliff, I dont think they have a distributor in the US, seems a small company. The webshop form is quite standard.; give it a try with a dictionary. Payment by normal (IBAN) bank transfer. BR, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: dinsdag 29 augustus 2017 19:32 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations Emile, I need to buy two of these LED drivers. Web site is only in German. Do you know if PCB Components has a distributer in the US? Best Regards Cliff On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 3:07 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Jon, The Pilotfish team and me developed a UW LED lamp. Since the Norway expedition on my sub. So happy with it that I like to recommend it. It is a Bridgelux Vero 29 unit with 80 Watt (abt. 300 watt Halogen) Wide (90-100 deg) angle but that is okay for a sub. Housing is can go down to 800 M and has a 80 mm OD. Dimmable, I don?t run it at full power. LED driver 6-40 VDC : https://pcb-components.de/led-aufwaertswandler-boost-step-up/led-senser-xtreme-200-2050ma-6v-30v-detail.html Br, Emile -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 28 augustus 2017 4:29 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations While we're in the middle of an LED investigation, can those of you actively diving with LED lighting give us a guideline on a range of lumens we should be striving for (per lamp), how many lamps, spot or flood? I know Alec was using an oil-filled 3000 lumen lamp on SNOOPY before selling it. I've been looking at PRIMELUX 8100 lumen lamp that seems like it could be easily adapted for oil or air compensation. Generally I would say more light is better but also need to be careful about power consumption so I don't want to purchase more light than is necessary for general operations. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 29 16:04:04 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 08:04:04 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <51722a70-961f-0786-9e80-8f4a5c40ef10@psubs.org> <042a01d31fd4$b4d76860$1e863920$@nl> Message-ID: <67E33C4F-F28E-47A7-8AF5-C1DC3F281EED@yahoo.com> Cliff, they are expensive, US $65- with the dimmer. The nano dimmer manual is in German, but their other dimmer's english manual said it required a 3.3-5V input. The dimmer is small, but if you put this in the light housing too then you are going to need additional wires for the 5V input & the 3 wires for the dimming pot. If you put this in your sub then you may as well put the buck driver in the sub! I spent a lot of time looking for an off the shelf item; very frustrating! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 30/08/2017, at 5:32 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Emile, I need to buy two of these LED drivers. Web site is only in German. Do you know if PCB Components has a distributer in the US? > > Best Regards > > Cliff > >> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 3:07 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hi Jon, >> >> The Pilotfish team and me developed a UW LED lamp. Since the Norway expedition on my sub. So happy with it that I like to recommend it. >> It is a Bridgelux Vero 29 unit with 80 Watt (abt. 300 watt Halogen) Wide (90-100 deg) angle but that is okay for a sub. Housing is can go down to 800 M and has a 80 mm OD. >> Dimmable, I don?t run it at full power. >> LED driver 6-40 VDC : https://pcb-components.de/led-aufwaertswandler-boost-step-up/led-senser-xtreme-200-2050ma-6v-30v-detail.html >> >> >> Br, Emile >> >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >> Verzonden: maandag 28 augustus 2017 4:29 >> Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations >> >> >> While we're in the middle of an LED investigation, can those of you actively diving with LED lighting give us a guideline on a range of lumens we should be striving for (per lamp), how many lamps, spot or flood? >> >> I know Alec was using an oil-filled 3000 lumen lamp on SNOOPY before selling it. I've been looking at PRIMELUX 8100 lumen lamp that seems like it could be easily adapted for oil or air compensation. Generally I would say more light is better but also need to be careful about power consumption so I don't want to purchase more light than is necessary for general operations. >> >> Jon >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 29 16:40:57 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 15:40:57 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations In-Reply-To: <67E33C4F-F28E-47A7-8AF5-C1DC3F281EED@yahoo.com> References: <51722a70-961f-0786-9e80-8f4a5c40ef10@psubs.org> <042a01d31fd4$b4d76860$1e863920$@nl> <67E33C4F-F28E-47A7-8AF5-C1DC3F281EED@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <57C786D5-B16C-4542-90F3-4C7D0FFC4764@gmail.com> I am not planning on using a dimmer and the base led driver is small enough to shrink the overall enclosure. Plus it lets me run on either the 24v bus or the 36v. Cliff Cliff Redus > On Aug 29, 2017, at 3:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, > they are expensive, US $65- with the dimmer. > The nano dimmer manual is in German, but their other dimmer's > english manual said it required a 3.3-5V input. > The dimmer is small, but if you put this in the light housing too > then you are going to need additional wires for the 5V input & the > 3 wires for the dimming pot. If you put this in your sub then you > may as well put the buck driver in the sub! > I spent a lot of time looking for an off the shelf item; very frustrating! > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 30/08/2017, at 5:32 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Emile, I need to buy two of these LED drivers. Web site is only in German. Do you know if PCB Components has a distributer in the US? >> >> Best Regards >> >> Cliff >> >>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 3:07 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Hi Jon, >>> >>> The Pilotfish team and me developed a UW LED lamp. Since the Norway expedition on my sub. So happy with it that I like to recommend it. >>> It is a Bridgelux Vero 29 unit with 80 Watt (abt. 300 watt Halogen) Wide (90-100 deg) angle but that is okay for a sub. Housing is can go down to 800 M and has a 80 mm OD. >>> Dimmable, I don?t run it at full power. >>> LED driver 6-40 VDC : https://pcb-components.de/led-aufwaertswandler-boost-step-up/led-senser-xtreme-200-2050ma-6v-30v-detail.html >>> >>> >>> Br, Emile >>> >>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >>> Verzonden: maandag 28 augustus 2017 4:29 >>> Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations >>> >>> >>> While we're in the middle of an LED investigation, can those of you actively diving with LED lighting give us a guideline on a range of lumens we should be striving for (per lamp), how many lamps, spot or flood? >>> >>> I know Alec was using an oil-filled 3000 lumen lamp on SNOOPY before selling it. I've been looking at PRIMELUX 8100 lumen lamp that seems like it could be easily adapted for oil or air compensation. Generally I would say more light is better but also need to be careful about power consumption so I don't want to purchase more light than is necessary for general operations. >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 29 18:25:42 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 22:25:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test In-Reply-To: <1800717115.4566869.1504008390830@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1800717115.4566869.1504008390830@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1661452236.3048690.1504045542612@mail.yahoo.com> How deep did you go,Hank ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 7:14 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test Hi All,Here is a short video. ?Note the smoke from forest fires in the background.Hank ----- Forwarded Message -----From: xxx xxxxx To: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017, 6:04:59 AM MDTSubject: pressure test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CSSqP0CKoc&t=16s _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2017-08-29 at 6.04 AM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 11002 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 29 18:41:16 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 10:41:16 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations In-Reply-To: <57C786D5-B16C-4542-90F3-4C7D0FFC4764@gmail.com> References: <51722a70-961f-0786-9e80-8f4a5c40ef10@psubs.org> <042a01d31fd4$b4d76860$1e863920$@nl> <67E33C4F-F28E-47A7-8AF5-C1DC3F281EED@yahoo.com> <57C786D5-B16C-4542-90F3-4C7D0FFC4764@gmail.com> Message-ID: Cliff, Hank, Looks a nice small unit & has temperature control. We are hearing a lot about the rain in Texas! You getting any bad weather where you are? Had previously asked advice on Psubs re finishing O- ring grooves etc. on the lathe with sand paper. Went & bought 4 paint stirring sticks & ground them to the profile I wanted, then glued sandpaper to them with a hot glue gun. Works well! I use a paint stripping gun to heat the glue to replace the sandpaper. Wonder if anyone else does this! Hank, sounds like you had quite an eventful day! At least it passed the pressure test. Thanks for the video of the buoy! I would have been trolling for trout while I waited. With that quick transition from shore to 500ft there must be some great underwater terrain to explore. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 30/08/2017, at 8:40 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I am not planning on using a dimmer and the base led driver is small enough to shrink the overall enclosure. Plus it lets me run on either the 24v bus or the 36v. > > Cliff > > > Cliff Redus > >> On Aug 29, 2017, at 3:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Cliff, >> they are expensive, US $65- with the dimmer. >> The nano dimmer manual is in German, but their other dimmer's >> english manual said it required a 3.3-5V input. >> The dimmer is small, but if you put this in the light housing too >> then you are going to need additional wires for the 5V input & the >> 3 wires for the dimming pot. If you put this in your sub then you >> may as well put the buck driver in the sub! >> I spent a lot of time looking for an off the shelf item; very frustrating! >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 30/08/2017, at 5:32 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Emile, I need to buy two of these LED drivers. Web site is only in German. Do you know if PCB Components has a distributer in the US? >>> >>> Best Regards >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 3:07 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Hi Jon, >>>> >>>> The Pilotfish team and me developed a UW LED lamp. Since the Norway expedition on my sub. So happy with it that I like to recommend it. >>>> It is a Bridgelux Vero 29 unit with 80 Watt (abt. 300 watt Halogen) Wide (90-100 deg) angle but that is okay for a sub. Housing is can go down to 800 M and has a 80 mm OD. >>>> Dimmable, I don?t run it at full power. >>>> LED driver 6-40 VDC : https://pcb-components.de/led-aufwaertswandler-boost-step-up/led-senser-xtreme-200-2050ma-6v-30v-detail.html >>>> >>>> >>>> Br, Emile >>>> >>>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>>> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Verzonden: maandag 28 augustus 2017 4:29 >>>> Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED recommendations >>>> >>>> >>>> While we're in the middle of an LED investigation, can those of you actively diving with LED lighting give us a guideline on a range of lumens we should be striving for (per lamp), how many lamps, spot or flood? >>>> >>>> I know Alec was using an oil-filled 3000 lumen lamp on SNOOPY before selling it. I've been looking at PRIMELUX 8100 lumen lamp that seems like it could be easily adapted for oil or air compensation. Generally I would say more light is better but also need to be careful about power consumption so I don't want to purchase more light than is necessary for general operations. >>>> >>>> Jon >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Aug 29 19:10:51 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 23:10:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test In-Reply-To: <1661452236.3048690.1504045542612@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1800717115.4566869.1504008390830@mail.yahoo.com> <1661452236.3048690.1504045542612@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1821773383.5099991.1504048251794@mail.yahoo.com> Pete, according to my depth indicator, it should be 485 feet but it is a bit uneven on the bottom and I was drifting and messing about with ropes etc.I would liked to have a second person to take video, but I am alone out there and it is a very busy job letting the line out ahead of time and then sinking the sub without drifting into the line. ?It is pretty tricky to do alone, it is much easier on paper. ?Alan, the float was all I could do, next video I will make sure to get the sea chest full of gold. ;-)Hank On Tuesday, August 29, 2017, 4:26:05 PM MDT, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: How deep did you go,Hank ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 7:14 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test Hi All,Here is a short video. ?Note the smoke from forest fires in the background.Hank ----- Forwarded Message -----From: xxx xxxxx To: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017, 6:04:59 AM MDTSubject: pressure test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CSSqP0CKoc&t=16s _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2017-08-29 at 6.04 AM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 11002 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Aug 31 12:27:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 11:27:43 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?EBA!!!?= In-Reply-To: <0acd01d31d28$01ab0980$05011c80$@gmail.com> References: <20170824052229.31002.qmail@server268.com> <731341999.1274801.1503570888319@mail.yahoo.com> <20170824142452.26612.qmail@server268.com> <0acd01d31d28$01ab0980$05011c80$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20170831162743.20607.qmail@server268.com> Ok guys! I got the discount set up for the EBAs. If you contact Mike at KISS rebreathers he will sell the EBAs for $2500 each. You need to tell him you are from PSUBS to get the discount (coupon code PSUBS). Once they get the first ones built he will get pictures for you, because currently they only have prototypes now that they used for testing. He will keep this pricing available for psubs until the end of October and then he will release it publicly. Once I get pictures I will send them out. They are currently building 3 for the Pisces VI submarine. Thank you, Scott Waters > -------Original Message------- > From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! > Sent: Aug 24 '17 17:28 > > Hi Scott,??Pencil me in but would like to see a photo, size, connections > etc. and explanation of it.??You make some good points on testing the smoke > filled compartment etc.??My domes and hatch??are all good for 15 psi > internal pressure and relief valves are 2 x 2" full flow.??Thanks for the > opportunity.??Hugh > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 25 August 2017 2:25 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! > > Hank, > > I completely understand being so into the project a lot of "what if" > scenarios are never considered. That is one of the reasons, of the 14 people > that work on Pisces VI, one of them does nothing but safety and writing the > operations manual. The Pisces VI used a EBA built by Drager called the > Oxy-SR 30M. It is basically the same thing KISS and Pisces developed except > it only lasted 30 minutes, did not have the ability to hook up comms, and > costs more. > > The Pisces VI has a lot more safety devices built into her, most of which > are over kill for a Psub, but this is an area where I see most of the psubs > lacking (including my own KW350 "Trustworthy"). > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > >??-------Original Message------- > >??From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > > >??To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > >??Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! > >??Sent: Aug 24 '17 05:40 > >?? > >??Scott, > >??I have to admit that I have not put so much thought into that?? > > scenario. I think because I (we) spend so much time and effort?? > > installing wiring with fuses and breakers that I have a false sense of?? > > security where short circuits are concerned. I am glad you brought it?? > > up and I am sure in the future you will be pointing out more risk?? > > assessments. We are lucky to have you with us. > >??What did Pisces VI have originally? > >??Hank > >?? > >??On Wednesday, August 23, 2017, 11:22:46 PM MDT, via?? > > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >?? > >??I guess I should mention some other reasons why this unit is worth it?? > > *It has a 3hr breath time??*It can be hooked up to u/w comms to keep > > communications with the??surface while still breathing safe air??*It > > is compact (unlike the BioMarine units that a lot of submarines??use > > for their EBAs)??*Fully enclosed mask which makes donning way faster > > than a reg and??mask that most BIBS use??*All parts are professionally > > built to the KISS standard. (If you have??ever dove a KISS rebreather > > you will know what I mean > >?? > >??Probably one of the most important things I learned at my month at > > sea??with Woods Hole and the DSV Alvin is the importance of actually?? > > running realistic drills of emergency situations. This was made?? > > bluntly obvious to me when we really started talking about it. For?? > > example has anyone on psubs actually done a smoke in cabin drill from?? > > operational depth? I think if you do you will be shocked. Trying to?? > > don a BIBS and mask, ensure passengers get their BIBS and mask donned,?? > > locate the issue, isolate the issue, get the submarine on it's way up,?? > > communicate with the surface, on the way up (which is probably at a?? > > full blow), slow the accent, vent the cabin from the BIBS at a slow?? > > rate so you don't blow a viewport or blow the hatch dogs and flood the?? > > submarine at 10 to 30 feet likely drowning everyone. Now that you have?? > > done this with a drill add the stress level and I think you will see?? > > why it is unacceptable. I know there was a comment on a hour of BIBS?? > > usage only brought up the p! > >??ressure about 15psi. I would challenge you to do the calcs to see at?? > > what pressure a viewport or the hatch fails from internal pressure. I?? > > think again you will be shocked. > >?? > >??I have learned a lot in my career with submarines and I know psubs is?? > > committed to safety above all other and I would love to help make it?? > > safer. This is the reason why I am pushing this so hard and sharing?? > > the discount. If you take nothing else from this e-mail, then I urge?? > > everyone to actually run their emergency plans under controlled?? > > circumstances then evaluate afterwards and ask, "with the stress level?? > > of a real situation, is this a good plan?". > >?? > >??Thank you, > >??Scott Waters > >?? > >??>??-------Original Message------- > >??>??From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles?? > > ??>??To: Personal Submersibles > > General Discussion????>??Subject: Re: > > [PSUBS-MAILIST] EBA!!! > >??>??Sent: Aug 23 '17 22:43 > >??> > >??>??Brian, > >??>??I am not an expert on rebreathers but??>??in a submarine, could > > you have a lung with full face mask & 3 hoses??>??attached to it. One > > hose pushes on to the submarines O2 outlet,??>??& the other 2 to your > > CO2 scrubber inlet & outlet. Manually control??>??the volume of the > > lung or set up some sort of bellows add system! > >??>??In a 1 ton volume submarine you would have over an hour of?? > > breathing??>??off a standard regulator & air before you doubled the > > pressure??inside??>??the sub anyway. > >??>??I am installing ptfe insulated wiring on the inside of my sub to?? > > avoid??>??any??>??fires with that, but you can't guarantee what's in > > all the??electronics??>??you??>??put in your sub! > >??>??Alan > >??> > >??>??Sent from my iPad > >??> > >??>??On 24/08/2017, at 3:11 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles?? > > >?? wrote: > >??> > >??>??> My friend Tom Rose's $100.00 USD rebreather. Unfortunately, a > > few??>??> years ago he died of a heart attack. Tom was a character. > >??>??> > >??>??> I've been contemplating making something similar out of a piece?? > > of??>??> acrylic pipe, like an old style canister light battery > > holder,??and??>??> an MSA mask. Add a stub for O2 addition. Before I > > got into this??>??> psubs hobby I use to build DIY mixed gas > > rebreathers. > >??>??> > >??>??> > >??> > >?? > > http://web.archive.org/web/20080420110800/http://www.atlimp.com/pend2. > > htm > >??>??> > >??>??> Get Outlook for Android > >??> > >??>??> _______________________________________________ > >??>??> Personal_Submersibles mailing list??>??> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org??>??> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >?? > >??> > >??>??------------------------- > >??>??_______________________________________________ > >??>??Personal_Submersibles mailing list??>?? > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org??>?? > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >??> > >??_______________________________________________ > >??Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >??Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >??http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >?? > >??------------------------- > >??_______________________________________________ > >??Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >??Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >??http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >?? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >