From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 1 00:56:09 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 21:56:09 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] High Pressure Manifold Source In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Steve, can you send a link? I'd like to see if I can fit one into my design. On Nov 30, 2017 2:59 PM, "Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I am Limited in what I can fabricate so I look for off-the-shelf solutions > most of the time. > If you are looking for a high pressure manifold I found the manifolds that > are being sold for scuba tank and paintball tank filling to be of the right > rating size and reasonably priced. > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 1 01:28:22 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 19:28:22 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USB thru hull In-Reply-To: <20171130185939.E439507@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20171130185939.E439507@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, just another thought on this. G.L. ( now DNVGL) require that through hulls don't leak if the cables are chopped through or cut. So I can't see any other option than potting if you want to comply with that. If you wanted to go this route, perhaps a stepped adapter like this https://www.titanfittings.com/product-p/ss-6404.htm would give you enough room to separate out the component wires & sheilds & allow you to pot them. Have been doing a bit of potting lately & not always easy. Have some thoughts on how to go about potting if you need to hear them! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 1/12/2017, at 3:59 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, That was my thought and fear exactly ! I'm probably over thinking this as I usually do. I will probably be wanting to do the same thing to an HDMI cable. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USB thru hull > Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 15:37:14 +1300 > > Brian, > can you find a cross sectional diagram of the wire you are talking about? > Have attached one I found on line as an example. Looks a nightmare to pot. > This item has a plastic jacket & could be put in a compression fitting, > however I would do what Carsten & Emile have done & put a blue globe > fitting on the inside of the hull as well as the outside. > My only reservation about this is that depending on how the wires etc are > arranged inside the jacket, it could compress unevenly. You could try & fill > the area of the cable that is inside the compression fitting with expoxy by > cutting into the jacket & shielding & squirting a low viscosity epoxy in there. > Alan > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 1/12/2017, at 2:28 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Sean, I'm using and squeeze fitting now for a co-ax line that is good for 600 ft, but there is a plastic core in there that the squeeze fitting can press against, with regular wire it seems like water might try to migrate through. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USB thru hull > Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 20:21:23 -0500 > > No, I meant that the shield should be contiguous from start to end, regardless of how many connectors are in line. > > Sean > > > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Nov 30, 2017, 18:18, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Sean, So not necessary to have the wire shielded through the short thru hull area? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USB thru hull > Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 20:12:22 -0500 > > Yup. +5V, data+, data-, and ground. Any 4 pin connector should work, but to avoid noise issues you'll probably want to use twisted pair shielded wire, carry the shield through the connector, and depending on the total length of the cable run, 28 to 20 AWG wire (0.81m to 5m length, according to USB 2.0 spec). > > Sean > > > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Nov 30, 2017, 18:03, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi All, > Has any one ran usb cable thru the hull and out to a camera or other device? I think it's just 4 wires. > > Brian > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 23049 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 1 03:20:04 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 00:20:04 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USB thru hull Message-ID: <20171201002004.E3F1EC8@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 23049 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 1 03:37:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 19:37:49 +1100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USB thru hull In-Reply-To: <20171201002004.E3F1EC8@m0117565.ppops.net> References: <20171201002004.E3F1EC8@m0117565.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi Brian, Could you use a wireless USB connection instead? I'm not sure of the exact product, but surely something exists with the functionality of a USB cable, but with a wireless signal instead of the cable. Various wireless signals will get through plastic, short hops through water and sometimes even metal, which rather surprised me. I've had weak Bluetooth signals go through 6mm acrylic plus 1-2m air, and through 3mm aluminium + 5mm water + 1m air. You would have to have the outside half of the wireless hardware pretty close to the hull (maybe at a viewport? or at a port with a solid plastic plug) but then you could run a wire from there to the camera and dispense with a penetrator into the camera housing. Might be worth considering when weighed against everything involved in a penetrator. I also did a USB (2.0) potted (but unshielded) wired connection for my pressure pot. It was noisy enough that the very crappy webcam I installed inside struggled to get the signal through properly. Cheers, Steve On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Sean, Alan, I've just been recently amazed how there are so many > options now with usb and HDMI that it could be a good way to control stuff > outside the sub , like panning the camera for instance . But you could > have a myriad of different controls as well. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USB thru hull > Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 19:28:22 +1300 > > Brian, > just another thought on this. > G.L. ( now DNVGL) require that through hulls > don't leak if the cables are chopped through or cut. > So I can't see any other option than potting if you want to comply with > that. If you wanted to go this route, perhaps a stepped adapter like this > https://www.titanfittings.com/product-p/ss-6404.htm > would give you enough room to separate out the component wires & sheilds > & allow you to pot them. Have been doing a bit of potting lately & not > always easy. > Have some thoughts on how to go about potting if you need to hear them! > Alan > [image: image1.JPG] > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 1/12/2017, at 3:59 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, That was my thought and fear exactly ! I'm probably over > thinking this as I usually do. I will probably be wanting to do the same > thing to an HDMI cable. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USB thru hull > Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 15:37:14 +1300 > > Brian, > can you find a cross sectional diagram of the wire you are talking about? > Have attached one I found on line as an example. Looks a nightmare to pot. > This item has a plastic jacket & could be put in a compression fitting, > however I would do what Carsten & Emile have done & put a blue globe > fitting on the inside of the hull as well as the outside. > My only reservation about this is that depending on how the wires etc are > arranged inside the jacket, it could compress unevenly. You could try & > fill > the area of the cable that is inside the compression fitting with expoxy by > cutting into the jacket & shielding & squirting a low viscosity epoxy in > there. > Alan > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 1/12/2017, at 2:28 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Sean, I'm using and squeeze fitting now for a co-ax line that is good > for 600 ft, but there is a plastic core in there that the squeeze fitting > can press against, with regular wire it seems like water might try to > migrate through. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USB thru hull > Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 20:21:23 -0500 > > No, I meant that the shield should be contiguous from start to end, > regardless of how many connectors are in line. > > Sean > > > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Nov 30, 2017, 18:18, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Sean, So not necessary to have the wire shielded through the short thru > hull area? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USB thru hull > Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 20:12:22 -0500 > > Yup. +5V, data+, data-, and ground. Any 4 pin connector should work, but > to avoid noise issues you'll probably want to use twisted pair shielded > wire, carry the shield through the connector, and depending on the total > length of the cable run, 28 to 20 AWG wire (0.81m to 5m length, according > to USB 2.0 spec). > > Sean > > > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Nov 30, 2017, 18:03, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hi All, > Has any one ran usb cable thru the hull and out to a camera > or other device? I think it's just 4 wires. > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 23049 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 1 04:19:46 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 22:19:46 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USB thru hull In-Reply-To: References: <20171201002004.E3F1EC8@m0117565.ppops.net> Message-ID: <495A4913-BA92-45EE-9E14-7998B3C0725E@yahoo.com> That's interesting Steve. just found this paper on data & power transmission through metallic walls.... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4721790/#!po=10.1563 It is a reasonably easy read compared with some technical papers. I wonder if you could have a fibre optic type signal going through a view port, then use the copper wire interface that telecommunications companies use. Forget the proper name for it! For things like Brian's camera gimbal & Hanks electric manipulator etc you could have a power + & - through hull running to an external junction box, with these devices connected & then switched on by an optic signal through the view port. That would save loads of through hulls. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 1/12/2017, at 9:37 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Brian, > Could you use a wireless USB connection instead? I'm not sure of the exact product, but surely something exists with the functionality of a USB cable, but with a wireless signal instead of the cable. > > Various wireless signals will get through plastic, short hops through water and sometimes even metal, which rather surprised me. I've had weak Bluetooth signals go through 6mm acrylic plus 1-2m air, and through 3mm aluminium + 5mm water + 1m air. You would have to have the outside half of the wireless hardware pretty close to the hull (maybe at a viewport? or at a port with a solid plastic plug) but then you could run a wire from there to the camera and dispense with a penetrator into the camera housing. Might be worth considering when weighed against everything involved in a penetrator. > > I also did a USB (2.0) potted (but unshielded) wired connection for my pressure pot. It was noisy enough that the very crappy webcam I installed inside struggled to get the signal through properly. > > Cheers, > Steve > >> On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Thanks Sean, Alan, I've just been recently amazed how there are so many options now with usb and HDMI that it could be a good way to control stuff outside the sub , like panning the camera for instance . But you could have a myriad of different controls as well. >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USB thru hull >> Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 19:28:22 +1300 >> >> Brian, >> just another thought on this. >> G.L. ( now DNVGL) require that through hulls >> don't leak if the cables are chopped through or cut. >> So I can't see any other option than potting if you want to comply with >> that. If you wanted to go this route, perhaps a stepped adapter like this >> https://www.titanfittings.com/product-p/ss-6404.htm >> would give you enough room to separate out the component wires & sheilds >> & allow you to pot them. Have been doing a bit of potting lately & not always easy. >> Have some thoughts on how to go about potting if you need to hear them! >> Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 1/12/2017, at 3:59 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, That was my thought and fear exactly ! I'm probably over thinking this as I usually do. I will probably be wanting to do the same thing to an HDMI cable. >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USB thru hull >> Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 15:37:14 +1300 >> >> Brian, >> can you find a cross sectional diagram of the wire you are talking about? >> Have attached one I found on line as an example. Looks a nightmare to pot. >> This item has a plastic jacket & could be put in a compression fitting, >> however I would do what Carsten & Emile have done & put a blue globe >> fitting on the inside of the hull as well as the outside. >> My only reservation about this is that depending on how the wires etc are >> arranged inside the jacket, it could compress unevenly. You could try & fill >> the area of the cable that is inside the compression fitting with expoxy by >> cutting into the jacket & shielding & squirting a low viscosity epoxy in there. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 1/12/2017, at 2:28 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Sean, I'm using and squeeze fitting now for a co-ax line that is good for 600 ft, but there is a plastic core in there that the squeeze fitting can press against, with regular wire it seems like water might try to migrate through. >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USB thru hull >> Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 20:21:23 -0500 >> >> No, I meant that the shield should be contiguous from start to end, regardless of how many connectors are in line. >> >> Sean >> >> >> >> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >> >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Nov 30, 2017, 18:18, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Sean, So not necessary to have the wire shielded through the short thru hull area? >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USB thru hull >> Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 20:12:22 -0500 >> >> Yup. +5V, data+, data-, and ground. Any 4 pin connector should work, but to avoid noise issues you'll probably want to use twisted pair shielded wire, carry the shield through the connector, and depending on the total length of the cable run, 28 to 20 AWG wire (0.81m to 5m length, according to USB 2.0 spec). >> >> Sean >> >> >> >> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >> >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Nov 30, 2017, 18:03, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> Has any one ran usb cable thru the hull and out to a camera or other device? I think it's just 4 wires. >> >> Brian >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 1 08:55:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 8:55:43 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] High Pressure Manifold Source In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20171201135543.IWLTN.52833.root@cdptpa-web25> David, here is a link but there are several vendors. http://www.scubacompressor.com/shop/fill-panels-manifolds-c-40.html?osCsid=c042481282d310b478bff8a41de2c588 I am trying the 7 port manifold (MB-4)which will give me a spare port. The dimensions work for me (4.5"W x 1"D x 2"H). Thanks, Steve ---- David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Steve, can you send a link? I'd like to see if I can fit one into my > design. > > On Nov 30, 2017 2:59 PM, "Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > I am Limited in what I can fabricate so I look for off-the-shelf solutions > > most of the time. > > If you are looking for a high pressure manifold I found the manifolds that > > are being sold for scuba tank and paintball tank filling to be of the right > > rating size and reasonably priced. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 1 12:34:17 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 09:34:17 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USB thru hull Message-ID: <20171201093417.E422044@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 23049 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 1 14:54:47 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 09:54:47 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] electric manipulator In-Reply-To: <459275718.5603277.1512091960041@mail.yahoo.com> References: <459275718.5603277.1512091960041.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <459275718.5603277.1512091960041@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I sent a request out last week but didn't get a reply so it may of not made it to the list so I am tagging this to make sure. Can anyone help me on how to upload a picture to my projects and photos page? I put a bunch of photos on the left side of my screen and then put my psubs format to the right of it and then hit the upload tab and nothing happens even after highlighting a picture that I want to upload. Thanks Rick On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 3:32 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alan, > Is there way to electronically stop the motor in my actuators? My mitre > saw has a brake, just wondering what thats all about. I have two functions > done on the new arm and the actuator coasts to a stop witch makes it > difficult to control. The arm is not under load in these early tests. > Maybe when the arm is under load it will be better. I could put a speed > control on the power feed line and the actuators would still be powerful > enough. The actuator is a bit fast but as I said with no load. I think I > will do some weight lifting tests tomorrow. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 1 17:33:29 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2017 09:33:29 +1100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USB thru hull In-Reply-To: References: <20171201093417.E422044@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi Brian, I know what you mean and I'm not sure what they use either for the wireless pressure transmitter - but I gather it's something proprietary and expensive. My experiments have been to try to make standard/cheap products work - to avoid through hulls rather than underwater wiring. Cheers, Steve On 2 Dec 2017 4:35 am, "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Steve, Was just talking about that with a friend last night. I know here is wireless equipment made for scuba, like reading your buddies pressure via wireless, not sure what they use. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USB thru hull Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 19:37:49 +1100 Hi Brian, Could you use a wireless USB connection instead? I'm not sure of the exact product, but surely something exists with the functionality of a USB cable, but with a wireless signal instead of the cable. Various wireless signals will get through plastic, short hops through water and sometimes even metal, which rather surprised me. I've had weak Bluetooth signals go through 6mm acrylic plus 1-2m air, and through 3mm aluminium + 5mm water + 1m air. You would have to have the outside half of the wireless hardware pretty close to the hull (maybe at a viewport? or at a port with a solid plastic plug) but then you could run a wire from there to the camera and dispense with a penetrator into the camera housing. Might be worth considering when weighed against everything involved in a penetrator. I also did a USB (2.0) potted (but unshielded) wired connection for my pressure pot. It was noisy enough that the very crappy webcam I installed inside struggled to get the signal through properly. Cheers, Steve On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Thanks Sean, Alan, I've just been recently amazed how there are so many options now with usb and HDMI that it could be a good way to control stuff outside the sub , like panning the camera for instance . But you could have a myriad of different controls as well. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USB thru hull Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 19:28:22 +1300 Brian, just another thought on this. G.L. ( now DNVGL) require that through hulls don't leak if the cables are chopped through or cut. So I can't see any other option than potting if you want to comply with that. If you wanted to go this route, perhaps a stepped adapter like this https://www.titanfittings.com/product-p/ss-6404.htm would give you enough room to separate out the component wires & sheilds & allow you to pot them. Have been doing a bit of potting lately & not always easy. Have some thoughts on how to go about potting if you need to hear them! Alan [image: image1.JPG] Sent from my iPad On 1/12/2017, at 3:59 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Alan, That was my thought and fear exactly ! I'm probably over thinking this as I usually do. I will probably be wanting to do the same thing to an HDMI cable. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USB thru hull Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 15:37:14 +1300 Brian, can you find a cross sectional diagram of the wire you are talking about? Have attached one I found on line as an example. Looks a nightmare to pot. This item has a plastic jacket & could be put in a compression fitting, however I would do what Carsten & Emile have done & put a blue globe fitting on the inside of the hull as well as the outside. My only reservation about this is that depending on how the wires etc are arranged inside the jacket, it could compress unevenly. You could try & fill the area of the cable that is inside the compression fitting with expoxy by cutting into the jacket & shielding & squirting a low viscosity epoxy in there. Alan Sent from my iPad On 1/12/2017, at 2:28 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Sean, I'm using and squeeze fitting now for a co-ax line that is good for 600 ft, but there is a plastic core in there that the squeeze fitting can press against, with regular wire it seems like water might try to migrate through. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USB thru hull Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 20:21:23 -0500 No, I meant that the shield should be contiguous from start to end, regardless of how many connectors are in line. Sean Sent from ProtonMail mobile -------- Original Message -------- On Nov 30, 2017, 18:18, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Sean, So not necessary to have the wire shielded through the short thru hull area? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USB thru hull Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 20:12:22 -0500 Yup. +5V, data+, data-, and ground. Any 4 pin connector should work, but to avoid noise issues you'll probably want to use twisted pair shielded wire, carry the shield through the connector, and depending on the total length of the cable run, 28 to 20 AWG wire (0.81m to 5m length, according to USB 2.0 spec). Sean Sent from ProtonMail mobile -------- Original Message -------- On Nov 30, 2017, 18:03, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi All, Has any one ran usb cable thru the hull and out to a camera or other device? I think it's just 4 wires. Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles --f403043ca868b2e8ac055f434857--_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 23049 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 1 17:41:35 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 22:41:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: arm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <559972451.80805.1512168095325@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,Here is a short video showing how well the electric actuator is working in the arm. ?Please don't judge the arm in its early stage of construction.Hank ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: xxx xxxxx To: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca Sent: Friday, December 1, 2017, 3:39:31 PM MSTSubject: arm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2017-12-01 at 3.39 PM.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 23653 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 1 17:48:19 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 22:48:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1281859415.49309.1512168499858@mail.yahoo.com> New videoHank ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: xxx xxxxx To: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca Sent: Friday, December 1, 2017, 3:44:47 PM MSTSubject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj42UxjrAiw -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2017-12-01 at 3.44 PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 20559 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 1 18:12:31 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2017 12:12:31 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1281859415.49309.1512168499858@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1281859415.49309.1512168499858@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Good one Hank. Notice you didn't have the problem with the actuator continuing to move after you stop it, that you talked about earlier. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 2/12/2017, at 11:48 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > New video > Hank > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > From: xxx xxxxx > To: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca > Sent: Friday, December 1, 2017, 3:44:47 PM MST > Subject: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj42UxjrAiw > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 1 18:26:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 23:26:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <1281859415.49309.1512168499858@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1210118245.92982.1512170809757@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Yes the speed just had to be reduced, this is shaping up to be my best arm yet.Hank On Friday, December 1, 2017, 4:12:57 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Good one Hank.Notice you didn't have the problem with the actuator continuingto move after you stop it, that you talked about earlier.Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/12/2017, at 11:48 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: New videoHank ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: xxx xxxxx To: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca Sent: Friday, December 1, 2017, 3:44:47 PM MSTSubject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj42UxjrAiw _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 1 19:03:57 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 19:03:57 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1281859415.49309.1512168499858@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1281859415.49309.1512168499858@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: That's a beautiful thing! Great work! Alec On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 5:48 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > New video > Hank > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > *From:* xxx xxxxx > *To:* hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca > *Sent:* Friday, December 1, 2017, 3:44:47 PM MST > *Subject:* > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj42UxjrAiw > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2017-12-01 at 3.44 PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 20559 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 2 16:02:21 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2017 13:02:21 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Waiting for concrete cutter Message-ID: <20171202130221.E3B6676@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: F-hull2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 110449 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: F-hull4.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 121898 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 2 16:03:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2017 13:03:49 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] more waiting pics Message-ID: <20171202130349.E3B666E@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: F-hull6.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 79893 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: P-hull1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 107821 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 2 16:05:32 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2017 13:05:32 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] and a couple more Message-ID: <20171202130532.E3B661F@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: P-hull2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 78552 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: F-hull5.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 89438 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 5 01:09:48 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 22:09:48 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] #thomas fire Message-ID: <20171204220948.22D882FD@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 5 19:36:39 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 00:36:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] bilge pump References: <895007700.2333626.1512520599975.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <895007700.2333626.1512520599975@mail.yahoo.com> Hi all,Do any of you sub owners have bilge pumps? ?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 5 20:56:15 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 14:56:15 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] bilge pump In-Reply-To: <895007700.2333626.1512520599975@mail.yahoo.com> References: <895007700.2333626.1512520599975.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <895007700.2333626.1512520599975@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <920C8253-7B8F-44D5-B93B-FD1F96F5252F@yahoo.com> Hank, yes I have a bilge pump for my new submarine but no submarine for it to go in yet! I am going to use my 36V Karcher water blaster pump that will be controlling my ballast & trim, to remove any bilge water via valves. One pump does it all. Am also thinking of having my flood valve off the pump through- hull plumbing. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 6/12/2017, at 1:36 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi all, > Do any of you sub owners have bilge pumps? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 5 22:28:22 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 03:28:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] bilge pump In-Reply-To: <895007700.2333626.1512520599975@mail.yahoo.com> References: <895007700.2333626.1512520599975.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <895007700.2333626.1512520599975@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1496174819.2426907.1512530902830@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,That will be a pretty slow pump, good for deballasting but not so good if you have a leak at the surface and want to save the sub. ?So your new sub is going to have sealed ballast tanks? ?interesting. ? Hmmmm that makes it a DSV ;-)Hank On Tuesday, December 5, 2017, 5:37:01 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all,Do any of you sub owners have bilge pumps? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 5 23:08:45 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 17:08:45 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] bilge pump In-Reply-To: <1496174819.2426907.1512530902830@mail.yahoo.com> References: <895007700.2333626.1512520599975.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <895007700.2333626.1512520599975@mail.yahoo.com> <1496174819.2426907.1512530902830@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8F57AB1C-6BC5-4003-B434-893C18E7F8D7@yahoo.com> Hank, no not a DSV. I have forgotten the lpm rate, but not high. The pressure is 650psi so it can easily operate at my maximum depth of 500ft. The intention as a bilge pump was to just act as a hand held suction hose to mop up any wash that may come in, & comply with G.L. I am not planning on major leaks! I am wanting 2 solenoid ballast valves (inlet & outlet) to work in unison, mainly so I can ride a bit higher while towing, as the inlet valve will stop the air in the tank compressing, & also as a safe guard if the sub is left floating in the water for long periods of time. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 6/12/2017, at 4:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > That will be a pretty slow pump, good for deballasting but not so good if you have a leak at the surface and want to save the sub. So your new sub is going to have sealed ballast tanks? interesting. Hmmmm that makes it a DSV ;-) > Hank > > On Tuesday, December 5, 2017, 5:37:01 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi all, > Do any of you sub owners have bilge pumps? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 6 07:50:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 12:50:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] bilge pump In-Reply-To: <8F57AB1C-6BC5-4003-B434-893C18E7F8D7@yahoo.com> References: <895007700.2333626.1512520599975.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <895007700.2333626.1512520599975@mail.yahoo.com> <1496174819.2426907.1512530902830@mail.yahoo.com> <8F57AB1C-6BC5-4003-B434-893C18E7F8D7@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <521346548.2619192.1512564643584@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Your idea to be able to pump leaked water out through the hull is pretty interesting. ?Where did you find a 36v dc pump? ?Maybe I am overthinking the idea.Hank On Tuesday, December 5, 2017, 9:09:19 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,no not a DSV. I have forgotten the lpm rate, but not high.?The pressure is 650psi so it can easily operate at my maximum depth of 500ft.The intention as a bilge pump was to just act as a hand held suction hose to mopup any wash that may come in, & comply with G.L. I am not planning on major leaks!I am wanting 2 solenoid ballast valves (inlet & outlet) to work in unison, mainly soI can ride a bit higher while towing, as the inlet valve will stop the air in the tankcompressing, & also as a safe guard if the sub is left floating in the water forlong periods of time.Alan Sent from my iPad On 6/12/2017, at 4:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,That will be a pretty slow pump, good for deballasting but not so good if you have a leak at the surface and want to save the sub. ?So your new sub is going to have sealed ballast tanks? ?interesting. ? Hmmmm that makes it a DSV ;-)Hank On Tuesday, December 5, 2017, 5:37:01 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all,Do any of you sub owners have bilge pumps? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 6 13:04:20 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 19:04:20 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] bilge pump In-Reply-To: <521346548.2619192.1512564643584@mail.yahoo.com> References: <895007700.2333626.1512520599975.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <895007700.2333626.1512520599975@mail.yahoo.com> <1496174819.2426907.1512530902830@mail.yahoo.com> <8F57AB1C-6BC5-4003-B434-893C18E7F8D7@yahoo.com> <521346548.2619192.1512564643584@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: hi Hank, In Pilot Fish I have a manual bilge pump from Sarum hydraulics, that gives 100cc per double stroke, against up to 40bar. it is an oversized hydraulic pump from Oil and gas type of application, highly corrosion resistant. quite expensive though (1000$) at the pump intake I have a three way valve so I can take water either from the 50Liters soft bladder VBT, or from the bilge (either aft or forward of the sub) at the pump outlet, the pipes and valves also branch out either to the sea via through hull, or back to the VBT bladder. This way it is possible to: pump bilge water to the VBT bladder at near zero back pressure pump bilge water to the outside pump sea water from the VBT bladder to the outside. regards Antoine On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 1:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alan, > Your idea to be able to pump leaked water out through the hull is pretty > interesting. Where did you find a 36v dc pump? Maybe I am overthinking > the idea. > Hank > > On Tuesday, December 5, 2017, 9:09:19 PM MST, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > no not a DSV. I have forgotten the lpm rate, but not high. > The pressure is 650psi so it can easily operate at my maximum depth of > 500ft. > The intention as a bilge pump was to just act as a hand held suction hose > to mop > up any wash that may come in, & comply with G.L. I am not planning on > major leaks! > I am wanting 2 solenoid ballast valves (inlet & outlet) to work in unison, > mainly so > I can ride a bit higher while towing, as the inlet valve will stop the air > in the tank > compressing, & also as a safe guard if the sub is left floating in the > water for > long periods of time. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 6/12/2017, at 4:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > That will be a pretty slow pump, good for deballasting but not so good if > you have a leak at the surface and want to save the sub. So your new sub > is going to have sealed ballast tanks? interesting. Hmmmm that makes it > a DSV ;-) > Hank > > On Tuesday, December 5, 2017, 5:37:01 PM MST, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi all, > Do any of you sub owners have bilge pumps? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 6 13:17:15 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 07:17:15 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] bilge pump In-Reply-To: <521346548.2619192.1512564643584@mail.yahoo.com> References: <895007700.2333626.1512520599975.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <895007700.2333626.1512520599975@mail.yahoo.com> <1496174819.2426907.1512530902830@mail.yahoo.com> <8F57AB1C-6BC5-4003-B434-893C18E7F8D7@yahoo.com> <521346548.2619192.1512564643584@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, it's a Karcher 36V water blaster / pressure washer. They sell for around NZ $200-$300- on ebay, about NZ $399 new. They have a non corrosive pump & are 750psi. You get a 36V lithium battery with it. So a good emergency back up battery. I wired mine to bypass the back pressure switch, but will change it back as it is a good function to have. You could pick up a bilge pump real cheap, but I liked the security of knowing that if it's through hull valve was open at depth that the pump wouldn't blow to pieces! Am also considering a spring loaded or solenoid through hull valve, so the valve can never be open if the pump isn't running. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7/12/2017, at 1:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > Your idea to be able to pump leaked water out through the hull is pretty interesting. Where did you find a 36v dc pump? Maybe I am overthinking the idea. > Hank > > On Tuesday, December 5, 2017, 9:09:19 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > no not a DSV. I have forgotten the lpm rate, but not high. > The pressure is 650psi so it can easily operate at my maximum depth of 500ft. > The intention as a bilge pump was to just act as a hand held suction hose to mop > up any wash that may come in, & comply with G.L. I am not planning on major leaks! > I am wanting 2 solenoid ballast valves (inlet & outlet) to work in unison, mainly so > I can ride a bit higher while towing, as the inlet valve will stop the air in the tank > compressing, & also as a safe guard if the sub is left floating in the water for > long periods of time. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 6/12/2017, at 4:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, >> That will be a pretty slow pump, good for deballasting but not so good if you have a leak at the surface and want to save the sub. So your new sub is going to have sealed ballast tanks? interesting. Hmmmm that makes it a DSV ;-) >> Hank >> >> On Tuesday, December 5, 2017, 5:37:01 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi all, >> Do any of you sub owners have bilge pumps? >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 6 13:43:12 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 08:43:12 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] photos Message-ID: Hi Hank, I put our a request for help uploading photos to my work page but don't know if they are even making it out as I haven't received any feedback. Did you see my posts? can you instruct me on how to upload pictures to my work page? Love your you tube video of the arm!! Rick -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 6 15:08:52 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 20:08:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] photos In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1035811040.2962853.1512590932045@mail.yahoo.com> Rick,I saw your post and did not offer to help because I am also having trouble loading pictures on Psubs. ?That makes me a bad person to offer help.Hank On Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 11:43:31 AM MST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, I put our a request for help uploading photos to my work page but don't know if they are even making it out as I haven't received any feedback. Did you see my posts? can you instruct me on how to upload pictures to my work page??Love your you tube video of the arm!!Rick_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 6 15:14:00 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 10:14:00 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] photos In-Reply-To: <1035811040.2962853.1512590932045@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1035811040.2962853.1512590932045@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: OK, no problem Hank I just wasn't sure it went out as there was NO response at all. Wounder if it is an internal problem with the web site??I was hoping to hear from Jon Wallace as he put it together and would probably be able to help but so far he hasn't chimed in. It was 48 degrees here last nite!! Rick On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 10:08 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > I saw your post and did not offer to help because I am also having trouble > loading pictures on Psubs. That makes me a bad person to offer help. > Hank > > On Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 11:43:31 AM MST, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > > I put our a request for help uploading photos to my work page but don't > know if they are even making it out as I haven't received any feedback. Did > you see my posts? can you instruct me on how to upload pictures to my work > page? > Love your you tube video of the arm!! > Rick > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 6 15:16:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 20:16:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] bilge pump In-Reply-To: References: <895007700.2333626.1512520599975.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <895007700.2333626.1512520599975@mail.yahoo.com> <1496174819.2426907.1512530902830@mail.yahoo.com> <8F57AB1C-6BC5-4003-B434-893C18E7F8D7@yahoo.com> <521346548.2619192.1512564643584@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <603474630.2990722.1512591403240@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Antoine,That is a fantastic set up you have, I love it! ?I also like the bladder system you have. ?I bought a couple bladders myself and might incorporate one in Gamma. ?The bladder will allow for shallower launch depth and ?more accurate weight control. ? Hank On Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 11:04:41 AM MST, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles wrote: hi Hank,In Pilot Fish I have a manual bilge pump from Sarum hydraulics, that gives 100cc per double stroke, against up to 40bar. it is an oversized hydraulic pump from Oil and gas type of application, highly corrosion resistant. quite expensive though (1000$) at the pump intake I have a three way valve so I can take water either from the 50Liters?soft bladder VBT, or from the bilge (either aft or forward of the sub)at the pump outlet, the pipes and valves also?branch out either to the sea via through hull, or back to the VBT bladder. This way?it is possible to: pump bilge water to the VBT bladder at?near zero?back pressure?pump bilge water to the outsidepump sea water from the VBT bladder?to the outside. ?regardsAntoine On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 1:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Your idea to be able to pump leaked water out through the hull is pretty interesting.? Where did you find a 36v dc pump?? Maybe I am overthinking the idea.Hank On Tuesday, December 5, 2017, 9:09:19 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,no not a DSV. I have forgotten the lpm rate, but not high.?The pressure is 650psi so it can easily operate at my maximum depth of 500ft.The intention as a bilge pump was to just act as a hand held suction hose to mopup any wash that may come in, & comply with G.L. I am not planning on major leaks!I am wanting 2 solenoid ballast valves (inlet & outlet) to work in unison, mainly soI can ride a bit higher while towing, as the inlet valve will stop the air in the tankcompressing, & also as a safe guard if the sub is left floating in the water forlong periods of time.Alan Sent from my iPad On 6/12/2017, at 4:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,That will be a pretty slow pump, good for deballasting but not so good if you have a leak at the surface and want to save the sub.? So your new sub is going to have sealed ballast tanks? ?interesting. ? Hmmmm that makes it a DSV ;-)Hank On Tuesday, December 5, 2017, 5:37:01 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all,Do any of you sub owners have bilge pumps? ?Hank______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 6 17:16:26 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 22:16:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <967030302.695896.1512598586615@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,Here is part two of the arm build. ?The hand is on and the wrist rotates but not under power yet.?Hank ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: xxx xxxxx To: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 3:13:45 PM MSTSubject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmon2a3bM-s -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2017-12-06 at 3.13 PM.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 25072 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 6 17:43:51 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 11:43:51 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <967030302.695896.1512598586615@mail.yahoo.com> References: <967030302.695896.1512598586615@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <75E54A26-97FE-4E00-91F2-CB71D85E6BCD@yahoo.com> Great work Hank, so will you eventually move the actuator in to a U channel to get things to line up? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7/12/2017, at 11:16 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > Here is part two of the arm build. The hand is on and the wrist rotates but not under power yet. > Hank > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > From: xxx xxxxx > To: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca > Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 3:13:45 PM MST > Subject: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmon2a3bM-s > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 6 17:49:23 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 22:49:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <75E54A26-97FE-4E00-91F2-CB71D85E6BCD@yahoo.com> References: <967030302.695896.1512598586615@mail.yahoo.com> <75E54A26-97FE-4E00-91F2-CB71D85E6BCD@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <131973774.3101104.1512600563799@mail.yahoo.com> AlanThanks' ?no that is how it will stay. ?The arm members have to be off set because I can't put two actuators in front of each other. ?These actuators are real nice but they won't last if they pull. ?That is fine, there are lots of folding cranes with off set booms. ?There is a bit of flex in the second stage of the arm but I can add some meat to the joint and it will be good. ?Hank On Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 3:44:12 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Great work Hank,so will you eventually move the actuator in to a U channel to getthings to line up?Alan Sent from my iPad On 7/12/2017, at 11:16 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Here is part two of the arm build. ?The hand is on and the wrist rotates but not under power yet.?Hank ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: xxx xxxxx To: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 3:13:45 PM MSTSubject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmon2a3bM-s _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 6 17:59:20 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 11:59:20 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] photos In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rick, I just tried it out & successfully uploaded a couple of photos. You sign in on the membership section, click my projects & photos, then choose the admin link of whatever project you want to upload to ( mine was lights) Then I think there may be another password request, then press choose file, then choose your photo & press upload photo! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7/12/2017, at 7:43 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Hank, > > I put our a request for help uploading photos to my work page but don't know if they are even making it out as I haven't received any feedback. Did you see my posts? can you instruct me on how to upload pictures to my work page? > Love your you tube video of the arm!! > Rick > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 6 18:10:29 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 12:10:29 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <131973774.3101104.1512600563799@mail.yahoo.com> References: <967030302.695896.1512598586615@mail.yahoo.com> <75E54A26-97FE-4E00-91F2-CB71D85E6BCD@yahoo.com> <131973774.3101104.1512600563799@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <686C09D1-B2F7-4660-8F75-1FBBABD81014@yahoo.com> Hank, I have not heard before that linear actuators should be used for pushing rather than pulling. Had a quick google & confirmed that. Is it just your lenco actuators that are designed for trim tabs? I might want to copy you so are worried about the ascetics of having the actuator off to the side. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7/12/2017, at 11:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan > Thanks' no that is how it will stay. The arm members have to be off set because I can't put two actuators in front of each other. These actuators are real nice but they won't last if they pull. That is fine, there are lots of folding cranes with off set booms. There is a bit of flex in the second stage of the arm but I can add some meat to the joint and it will be good. > Hank > > On Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 3:44:12 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Great work Hank, > so will you eventually move the actuator in to a U channel to get > things to line up? > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 7/12/2017, at 11:16 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> Here is part two of the arm build. The hand is on and the wrist rotates but not under power yet. >> Hank >> >> ----- Forwarded Message ----- >> From: xxx xxxxx >> To: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca >> Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 3:13:45 PM MST >> Subject: >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmon2a3bM-s >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 6 18:16:16 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 23:16:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <686C09D1-B2F7-4660-8F75-1FBBABD81014@yahoo.com> References: <967030302.695896.1512598586615@mail.yahoo.com> <75E54A26-97FE-4E00-91F2-CB71D85E6BCD@yahoo.com> <131973774.3101104.1512600563799@mail.yahoo.com> <686C09D1-B2F7-4660-8F75-1FBBABD81014@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <225507380.3098464.1512602176263@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Yes that is what I meant, it is just the trim tab actuators that are meant to work in one direction, witch is not an issue. ?Are you saying my arm will not look good ;-( ? haha. ?I think it will look just fine and more important it will work nice and be simple to build.Hank On Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 4:10:56 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I have not heard before that linear actuators should be used for pushingrather than pulling. Had a quick google & confirmed that.Is it just your lenco actuators that are designed for trim tabs?I might want to copy you so are worried about the ascetics of havingthe actuator off to the side.?Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 7/12/2017, at 11:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: AlanThanks' ?no that is how it will stay. ?The arm members have to be off set because I can't put two actuators in front of each other. ?These actuators are real nice but they won't last if they pull. ?That is fine, there are lots of folding cranes with off set booms. ?There is a bit of flex in the second stage of the arm but I can add some meat to the joint and it will be good. ?Hank On Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 3:44:12 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Great work Hank,so will you eventually move the actuator in to a U channel to getthings to line up?Alan Sent from my iPad On 7/12/2017, at 11:16 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Here is part two of the arm build. ?The hand is on and the wrist rotates but not under power yet.?Hank ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: xxx xxxxx To: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 3:13:45 PM MSTSubject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmon2a3bM-s _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 6 18:54:27 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 12:54:27 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <225507380.3098464.1512602176263@mail.yahoo.com> References: <967030302.695896.1512598586615@mail.yahoo.com> <75E54A26-97FE-4E00-91F2-CB71D85E6BCD@yahoo.com> <131973774.3101104.1512600563799@mail.yahoo.com> <686C09D1-B2F7-4660-8F75-1FBBABD81014@yahoo.com> <225507380.3098464.1512602176263@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, no you are missing the point! It doesn't matter if the manipulator works well, as you would only be using it for 5 minutes a few times a year. However it will be on display out of the water most of the time! Now how is this for a sexy manipulator ( I have met women that fit that description) ............ Sent from my iPad > On 7/12/2017, at 12:16 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > Yes that is what I meant, it is just the trim tab actuators that are meant to work in one direction, witch is not an issue. Are you saying my arm will not look good ;-( haha. I think it will look just fine and more important it will work nice and be simple to build. > Hank > > On Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 4:10:56 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > I have not heard before that linear actuators should be used for pushing > rather than pulling. Had a quick google & confirmed that. > Is it just your lenco actuators that are designed for trim tabs? > I might want to copy you so are worried about the ascetics of having > the actuator off to the side. > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 7/12/2017, at 11:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan >> Thanks' no that is how it will stay. The arm members have to be off set because I can't put two actuators in front of each other. These actuators are real nice but they won't last if they pull. That is fine, there are lots of folding cranes with off set booms. There is a bit of flex in the second stage of the arm but I can add some meat to the joint and it will be good. >> Hank >> >> On Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 3:44:12 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Great work Hank, >> so will you eventually move the actuator in to a U channel to get >> things to line up? >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 7/12/2017, at 11:16 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi All, >>> Here is part two of the arm build. The hand is on and the wrist rotates but not under power yet. >>> Hank >>> >>> ----- Forwarded Message ----- >>> From: xxx xxxxx >>> To: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 3:13:45 PM MST >>> Subject: >>> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmon2a3bM-s >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 77422 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 6 19:23:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 14:23:49 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] photos In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alan, I think the problem that i am having is that the photos you want to upload have to be in a certain file or folder before they will upload to my projects site. I have all the photos that are in my cloud on one side of my screen and the psubs page next to it (the page that has the upload tab) I then single click on a picture in my cloud and the boarder turns blue showing that it has been selected, I then hit the upload tab on the psubs page and nothing happens. Rick On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:59 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > I just tried it out & successfully uploaded a couple of photos. > You sign in on the membership section, click my projects & photos, then > choose the admin link of whatever project you want to upload to ( mine was > lights) > Then I think there may be another password request, then press choose file, > then choose your photo & press upload photo! > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 7/12/2017, at 7:43 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Hi Hank, > > > > I put our a request for help uploading photos to my work page but don't > know if they are even making it out as I haven't received any feedback. Did > you see my posts? can you instruct me on how to upload pictures to my work > page? > > Love your you tube video of the arm!! > > Rick > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 6 19:46:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 13:46:43 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] photos In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <54F1D082-8E1C-4B33-B995-BB6A9FB5349A@yahoo.com> Rick, it sounds like you have to hit the "create new Album" button first, create the album & then follow what I said. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7/12/2017, at 1:23 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I think the problem that i am having is that the photos you want to upload have to be in a certain file or folder before they will upload to my projects site. I have all the photos that are in my cloud on one side of my screen and the psubs page next to it (the page that has the upload tab) I then single click on a picture in my cloud and the boarder turns blue showing that it has been selected, I then hit the upload tab on the psubs page and nothing happens. > Rick > >> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:59 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Rick, >> I just tried it out & successfully uploaded a couple of photos. >> You sign in on the membership section, click my projects & photos, then >> choose the admin link of whatever project you want to upload to ( mine was lights) >> Then I think there may be another password request, then press choose file, >> then choose your photo & press upload photo! >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> > On 7/12/2017, at 7:43 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > >> > Hi Hank, >> > >> > I put our a request for help uploading photos to my work page but don't know if they are even making it out as I haven't received any feedback. Did you see my posts? can you instruct me on how to upload pictures to my work page? >> > Love your you tube video of the arm!! >> > Rick >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 6 19:48:38 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 13:48:38 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] photos In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1D6590C5-F33A-48CF-8589-C3B859FB0025@yahoo.com> I might have miss understood you Rick! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7/12/2017, at 1:23 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I think the problem that i am having is that the photos you want to upload have to be in a certain file or folder before they will upload to my projects site. I have all the photos that are in my cloud on one side of my screen and the psubs page next to it (the page that has the upload tab) I then single click on a picture in my cloud and the boarder turns blue showing that it has been selected, I then hit the upload tab on the psubs page and nothing happens. > Rick > >> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:59 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Rick, >> I just tried it out & successfully uploaded a couple of photos. >> You sign in on the membership section, click my projects & photos, then >> choose the admin link of whatever project you want to upload to ( mine was lights) >> Then I think there may be another password request, then press choose file, >> then choose your photo & press upload photo! >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> > On 7/12/2017, at 7:43 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > >> > Hi Hank, >> > >> > I put our a request for help uploading photos to my work page but don't know if they are even making it out as I haven't received any feedback. Did you see my posts? can you instruct me on how to upload pictures to my work page? >> > Love your you tube video of the arm!! >> > Rick >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 6 20:01:21 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 01:01:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <967030302.695896.1512598586615@mail.yahoo.com> <75E54A26-97FE-4E00-91F2-CB71D85E6BCD@yahoo.com> <131973774.3101104.1512600563799@mail.yahoo.com> <686C09D1-B2F7-4660-8F75-1FBBABD81014@yahoo.com> <225507380.3098464.1512602176263@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <137353386.8368.1512608481538@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Boy that is a sexy arm!!! ?I bet the price tag is also pretty sexy.Hank On Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 4:54:55 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,no you are missing the point! It doesn't matter if the manipulator works well, asyou would only be using it for 5 minutes a few times a year. However it will beon display out of the water most of the time!Now how is this for a sexy manipulator ( I have met women that fit that description)............ Sent from my iPad On 7/12/2017, at 12:16 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes that is what I meant, it is just the trim tab actuators that are meant to work in one direction, witch is not an issue. ?Are you saying my arm will not look good ;-( ? haha. ?I think it will look just fine and more important it will work nice and be simple to build.Hank On Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 4:10:56 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I have not heard before that linear actuators should be used for pushingrather than pulling. Had a quick google & confirmed that.Is it just your lenco actuators that are designed for trim tabs?I might want to copy you so are worried about the ascetics of havingthe actuator off to the side.?Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 7/12/2017, at 11:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: AlanThanks' ?no that is how it will stay. ?The arm members have to be off set because I can't put two actuators in front of each other. ?These actuators are real nice but they won't last if they pull. ?That is fine, there are lots of folding cranes with off set booms. ?There is a bit of flex in the second stage of the arm but I can add some meat to the joint and it will be good. ?Hank On Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 3:44:12 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Great work Hank,so will you eventually move the actuator in to a U channel to getthings to line up?Alan Sent from my iPad On 7/12/2017, at 11:16 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Here is part two of the arm build. ?The hand is on and the wrist rotates but not under power yet.?Hank ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: xxx xxxxx To: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 3:13:45 PM MSTSubject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmon2a3bM-s _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 77422 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 6 23:08:19 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 18:08:19 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] photos In-Reply-To: <1D6590C5-F33A-48CF-8589-C3B859FB0025@yahoo.com> References: <1D6590C5-F33A-48CF-8589-C3B859FB0025@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan just tried that and it didn't work. Looks like I am going to have to bring in the big guns!? Rick On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:48 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I might have miss understood you Rick! > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 7/12/2017, at 1:23 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > I think the problem that i am having is that the photos you want to upload > have to be in a certain file or folder before they will upload to my > projects site. I have all the photos that are in my cloud on one side of my > screen and the psubs page next to it (the page that has the upload tab) I > then single click on a picture in my cloud and the boarder turns blue > showing that it has been selected, I then hit the upload tab on the psubs > page and nothing happens. > Rick > > On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:59 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Rick, >> I just tried it out & successfully uploaded a couple of photos. >> You sign in on the membership section, click my projects & photos, then >> choose the admin link of whatever project you want to upload to ( mine >> was lights) >> Then I think there may be another password request, then press choose >> file, >> then choose your photo & press upload photo! >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> > On 7/12/2017, at 7:43 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> > >> > Hi Hank, >> > >> > I put our a request for help uploading photos to my work page but don't >> know if they are even making it out as I haven't received any feedback. Did >> you see my posts? can you instruct me on how to upload pictures to my work >> page? >> > Love your you tube video of the arm!! >> > Rick >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 7 07:34:45 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 12:34:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] photos In-Reply-To: References: <1D6590C5-F33A-48CF-8589-C3B859FB0025@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <584470770.327328.1512650085561@mail.yahoo.com> Rick,By big guns you mean, your wife, that's what I have to do ;-) Hank On Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 9:08:39 PM MST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan just tried that and it didn't work. Looks like I am going to have to bring in the big guns!?Rick On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:48 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I might have miss understood you Rick!Alan Sent from my iPad On 7/12/2017, at 1:23 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I think the problem that i am having is that the photos you want to upload have to be in a certain file or folder before they will upload to my projects site. I have all the photos that are in my cloud on one side of my screen and the psubs page next to it (the page that has the upload tab) I then single click on a picture in my cloud and the boarder turns blue showing that it has been selected, I then hit the upload tab on the psubs page and nothing happens.Rick On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:59 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, I just tried it out & successfully uploaded a couple of photos. You sign in on the membership section, click my projects & photos, then choose the admin link of whatever project you want to upload to ( mine was lights) Then I think there may be another password request, then press choose file, then choose your photo & press upload photo! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7/12/2017, at 7:43 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Hank, > > I put our a request for help uploading photos to my work page but don't know if they are even making it out as I haven't received any feedback. Did you see my posts? can you instruct me on how to upload pictures to my work page? > Love your you tube video of the arm!! > Rick > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 7 08:50:57 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 07:50:57 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <967030302.695896.1512598586615@mail.yahoo.com> References: <967030302.695896.1512598586615@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5B0BC465-3FAB-45EA-8E42-1EE3A66E52C6@snyderemail.com> So cool! > On Dec 6, 2017, at 4:16 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > Here is part two of the arm build. The hand is on and the wrist rotates but not under power yet. > Hank > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > From: xxx xxxxx > To: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca > Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 3:13:45 PM MST > Subject: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmon2a3bM-s > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 7 12:01:54 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2017 17:01:54 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] photos In-Reply-To: <584470770.327328.1512650085561@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1D6590C5-F33A-48CF-8589-C3B859FB0025@yahoo.com> <584470770.327328.1512650085561@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I wish, as she?s free but but unfortunately she?s in the same boat (sub) that I am. This ones gonna cost us! ? Rick On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 2:35 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > By big guns you mean, your wife, that's what I have to do ;-) > > Hank > On Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 9:08:39 PM MST, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan > > just tried that and it didn't work. Looks like I am going to have to bring > in the big guns!? > Rick > On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:48 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I might have miss understood you Rick! > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 7/12/2017, at 1:23 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Alan, > I think the problem that i am having is that the photos you want to upload > have to be in a certain file or folder before they will upload to my > projects site. I have all the photos that are in my cloud on one side of my > screen and the psubs page next to it (the page that has the upload tab) I > then single click on a picture in my cloud and the boarder turns blue > showing that it has been selected, I then hit the upload tab on the psubs > page and nothing happens. > Rick > > On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:59 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Rick, > I just tried it out & successfully uploaded a couple of photos. > You sign in on the membership section, click my projects & photos, then > choose the admin link of whatever project you want to upload to ( mine was > lights) > Then I think there may be another password request, then press choose file, > then choose your photo & press upload photo! > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On 7/12/2017, at 7:43 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles rg > wrote: > > > > Hi Hank, > > > > I put our a request for help uploading photos to my work page but don't > know if they are even making it out as I haven't received any feedback. Did > you see my posts? can you instruct me on how to upload pictures to my work > page? > > Love your you tube video of the arm!! > > Rick > > ______________________________ _________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 7 12:39:08 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 17:39:08 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] photos In-Reply-To: References: <1D6590C5-F33A-48CF-8589-C3B859FB0025@yahoo.com> <584470770.327328.1512650085561@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Rick. download the files from your cloud to your local computer. Then you should be able to upload them to the psubs site from there. Don't pay for anything, contact me off list if you like and ill sort it out for you. Regards James On 7 December 2017 at 17:01, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I wish, as she?s free but but unfortunately she?s in the same boat (sub) > that I am. This ones gonna cost us! ? > Rick > > On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 2:35 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Rick, >> By big guns you mean, your wife, that's what I have to do ;-) >> >> Hank >> On Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 9:08:39 PM MST, Rick Patton via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Alan >> >> just tried that and it didn't work. Looks like I am going to have to >> bring in the big guns!? >> Rick >> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:48 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> I might have miss understood you Rick! >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> On 7/12/2017, at 1:23 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > org > wrote: >> >> Alan, >> I think the problem that i am having is that the photos you want to >> upload have to be in a certain file or folder before they will upload to my >> projects site. I have all the photos that are in my cloud on one side of my >> screen and the psubs page next to it (the page that has the upload tab) I >> then single click on a picture in my cloud and the boarder turns blue >> showing that it has been selected, I then hit the upload tab on the psubs >> page and nothing happens. >> Rick >> >> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:59 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > org > wrote: >> >> Rick, >> I just tried it out & successfully uploaded a couple of photos. >> You sign in on the membership section, click my projects & photos, then >> choose the admin link of whatever project you want to upload to ( mine >> was lights) >> Then I think there may be another password request, then press choose >> file, >> then choose your photo & press upload photo! >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> > On 7/12/2017, at 7:43 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > rg > wrote: >> > >> > Hi Hank, >> > >> > I put our a request for help uploading photos to my work page but don't >> know if they are even making it out as I haven't received any feedback. Did >> you see my posts? can you instruct me on how to upload pictures to my work >> page? >> > Love your you tube video of the arm!! >> > Rick >> > ______________________________ _________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 7 23:43:21 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 20:43:21 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] #thomas fire In-Reply-To: M6Qje8vytC2CsM6QkebHIj References: M6Qje8vytC2CsM6QkebHIj Message-ID: <007901d36fdf$1408fd80$3c1af880$@telus.net> Very sad to see this, Brian. This has been one bad year for wildfires. I hope you make out okay with no losses. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, December 4, 2017 10:10 PM To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] #thomas fire Looks like it's our turn for a fire ! https://twitter.com/search?q=%23ThomasFire &src=tyah&lang=en -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 8 10:49:54 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 07:49:54 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] #thomas fire Message-ID: <20171208074954.2D1BF738@m0117459.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 8 11:31:44 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 10:31:44 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] #thomas fire In-Reply-To: <20171208074954.2D1BF738@m0117459.ppops.net> References: <20171208074954.2D1BF738@m0117459.ppops.net> Message-ID: So glad to hear that Brian! I hope the bees survived too! What a frightening fire! Best personal regards and happy holidays Greg > On Dec 8, 2017, at 9:49 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Tim, We made it through, and the sub too ! Except now we're breathing toxic air ! Ojai is a big bowl , with no air flow the smoke is just sitting here. I think we might go down to the sailboat, hopefully the air is better down there. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] #thomas fire > Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 20:43:21 -0800 > > Very sad to see this, Brian. This has been one bad year for wildfires. I hope you make out okay with no losses. > > Tim > > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, December 4, 2017 10:10 PM > To: PSubs > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] #thomas fire > > > > Looks like it's our turn for a fire ! > > > > https://twitter.com/search?q=%23ThomasFire&src=tyah&lang=en_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 8 22:37:24 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 03:37:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] air compensation References: <390793538.1627017.1512790644832.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <390793538.1627017.1512790644832@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,I am new to air compensating so I need to know if the air line size to each of my actuators is critical. ?To save money I want to recycle ?the high pressure nylon tubing that is used for hydraulic lines on my hydraulic arm. ?The nylon air lines ?are a bit over .125 IDthanks'Hank? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 9 00:01:07 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 18:01:07 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] air compensation In-Reply-To: <390793538.1627017.1512790644832@mail.yahoo.com> References: <390793538.1627017.1512790644832.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <390793538.1627017.1512790644832@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, you will have the internal space of your actuator to equalise, which shouldn't be a problem as this will be slowly equalised as you descend. Then you have the piston going out during manipulator use, & there will be air going in to fill that void. If you are running either off a 1st stage regulator or a relieving regulator like Cliff's, the air will be kept at ambient & it will only be that small flow in to the space the piston has vacated. You could estimate the internal volume change by using an on line cylinder volume calculator & plugging in the piston diameter & the difference in length it changes as it protrudes. If the actuators full stroke takes (as an example) 4 seconds at full speed, & the volume is 100ml, you could then run air through your intended hose at your supply pressure (130 psi for scuba regulator) in to a small crushed plastic bag, & see if it can at least fill the bag with 100ml of air in 4 seconds. Have done similar for rough estimates. Or just blow through the hose in to a plastic bag ( like lots of people do at Christmas time) & you might think yep this will do with 130psi behind it. BTW on A relieving regulator the orifice is pretty small & in Cliff's case it is venting the internal volume of his 4 thrusters in the last 30ft of ascent. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 9/12/2017, at 4:37 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > I am new to air compensating so I need to know if the air line size to each of my actuators is critical. To save money I want to recycle the high pressure nylon tubing that is used for hydraulic lines on my hydraulic arm. The nylon air lines are a bit over .125 ID > thanks' > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 9 07:25:23 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 12:25:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] air compensation In-Reply-To: References: <390793538.1627017.1512790644832.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <390793538.1627017.1512790644832@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1728590.1736114.1512822323608@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I assumed that the air pressure at the out port of the regulator is 4 psi above ambient. ?My concern is,, will the .125 air line supply air fast enough at 4psi to maintain 4psi above ambient inside the actuator. ??Hank On Friday, December 8, 2017, 10:01:31 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,you will have the internal space of your actuator to equalise, whichshouldn't be a problem as this will be slowly equalised as you descend.Then you have the piston going out during manipulator use, & there will be air goingin to fill that void. If you are running either off a 1st stage regulator or a relievingregulator like Cliff's, the air will be kept at ambient & it will only be that smallflow in to the space the piston has vacated.?You could estimate the internal volume change by using an on line cylinder volume calculator & plugging in the piston diameter & the difference in length it changes?as it protrudes.If the actuators full stroke takes (as an example) 4 seconds at full speed, &the volume is 100ml, you could then run air through your intended hose at your supply pressure (130 psi for scuba regulator) in to a small crushed plastic bag, & see if it canat least fill the bag with 100ml of air in 4 seconds.?Have done similar for rough estimates.Or just blow through the hose in to a plastic bag ( like lots of people do at Christmastime) & you might think yep this will do with 130psi behind it.BTW on A relieving regulator the orifice is pretty small & in Cliff's case it is ventingthe internal volume of his 4 thrusters in the last 30ft of ascent.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 9/12/2017, at 4:37 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I am new to air compensating so I need to know if the air line size to each of my actuators is critical. ?To save money I want to recycle ?the high pressure nylon tubing that is used for hydraulic lines on my hydraulic arm. ?The nylon air lines ?are a bit over .125 IDthanks'Hank? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 9 07:53:01 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 12:53:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] air compensation In-Reply-To: <1728590.1736114.1512822323608@mail.yahoo.com> References: <390793538.1627017.1512790644832.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <390793538.1627017.1512790644832@mail.yahoo.com> <1728590.1736114.1512822323608@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1812622296.1702932.1512823981693@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, thanks'I just googled an air flow chart, and the .125 air hose can supply .5 scfm at 5 psi. ?So now I have to calculate the volume change in the actuator ?at my dive rate and see if .5 scfm will supply each actuator. ?I was not worried about the line supplying the actuator when it was operating. ?My concern was for the line to keep up while descending. ?I also thought I might need a relief valve on each actuator for rapid ascents. ?Hank On Saturday, December 9, 2017, 5:25:45 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I assumed that the air pressure at the out port of the regulator is 4 psi above ambient. ?My concern is,, will the .125 air line supply air fast enough at 4psi to maintain 4psi above ambient inside the actuator. ??Hank On Friday, December 8, 2017, 10:01:31 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,you will have the internal space of your actuator to equalise, whichshouldn't be a problem as this will be slowly equalised as you descend.Then you have the piston going out during manipulator use, & there will be air goingin to fill that void. If you are running either off a 1st stage regulator or a relievingregulator like Cliff's, the air will be kept at ambient & it will only be that smallflow in to the space the piston has vacated.?You could estimate the internal volume change by using an on line cylinder volume calculator & plugging in the piston diameter & the difference in length it changes?as it protrudes.If the actuators full stroke takes (as an example) 4 seconds at full speed, &the volume is 100ml, you could then run air through your intended hose at your supply pressure (130 psi for scuba regulator) in to a small crushed plastic bag, & see if it canat least fill the bag with 100ml of air in 4 seconds.?Have done similar for rough estimates.Or just blow through the hose in to a plastic bag ( like lots of people do at Christmastime) & you might think yep this will do with 130psi behind it.BTW on A relieving regulator the orifice is pretty small & in Cliff's case it is ventingthe internal volume of his 4 thrusters in the last 30ft of ascent.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 9/12/2017, at 4:37 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I am new to air compensating so I need to know if the air line size to each of my actuators is critical. ?To save money I want to recycle ?the high pressure nylon tubing that is used for hydraulic lines on my hydraulic arm. ?The nylon air lines ?are a bit over .125 IDthanks'Hank? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 9 13:45:46 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 07:45:46 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] air compensation In-Reply-To: <1812622296.1702932.1512823981693@mail.yahoo.com> References: <390793538.1627017.1512790644832.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <390793538.1627017.1512790644832@mail.yahoo.com> <1728590.1736114.1512822323608@mail.yahoo.com> <1812622296.1702932.1512823981693@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6D28B45B-7D11-4BEF-A634-A331D0CCAA14@yahoo.com> Hank, Hugh is the expert on this, but.... if the supply pressure is 130psi to the inlet port of the regulator, then if there was a drop of pressure down stream caused by the piston extending, you would get pressure at 130psi flowing in until the back pressure in the system ( hose & actuator) reached your set pressure (4psi). It doesn't look like a simple equation because the 130psi would be flowing in very slowly initially, as the valve slowly opened. Now to the ascent! If you are using a relieving regulator set at 4psi then the pressure that it relieves at will be set by the strength of the spring in the handle controlling the relieving valve. You could change what it is preset at by buying a new spring or maybe grinding a bit off it. Say it is set at 2psi above your main setting, then the internal pressure of the regulator would be 6psi above ambient before it started relieving. The worst case scenario would be ascending from 30ft where the pressure would double if it wasn't relieved. Any pressure in the hose is going to increase as will the flow, so not an easy equation. You might want to guess what internal pressure the actuator can take & be careful of the wire gland fitting that nothing can blow out. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 10/12/2017, at 1:53 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, thanks' > I just googled an air flow chart, and the .125 air hose can supply .5 scfm at 5 psi. So now I have to calculate the volume change in the actuator at my dive rate and see if .5 scfm will supply each actuator. I was not worried about the line supplying the actuator when it was operating. My concern was for the line to keep up while descending. I also thought I might need a relief valve on each actuator for rapid ascents. > Hank > > On Saturday, December 9, 2017, 5:25:45 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > I assumed that the air pressure at the out port of the regulator is 4 psi above ambient. My concern is,, will the .125 air line supply air fast enough at 4psi to maintain 4psi above ambient inside the actuator. > Hank > > On Friday, December 8, 2017, 10:01:31 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > you will have the internal space of your actuator to equalise, which > shouldn't be a problem as this will be slowly equalised as you descend. > Then you have the piston going out during manipulator use, & there will be air going > in to fill that void. If you are running either off a 1st stage regulator or a relieving > regulator like Cliff's, the air will be kept at ambient & it will only be that small > flow in to the space the piston has vacated. > You could estimate the internal volume change by using an on line cylinder volume calculator & plugging in the piston diameter & the difference in length it changes > as it protrudes. > If the actuators full stroke takes (as an example) 4 seconds at full speed, & > the volume is 100ml, you could then run air through your intended hose at your supply pressure (130 psi for scuba regulator) in to a small crushed plastic bag, & see if it can > at least fill the bag with 100ml of air in 4 seconds. > Have done similar for rough estimates. > Or just blow through the hose in to a plastic bag ( like lots of people do at Christmas > time) & you might think yep this will do with 130psi behind it. > BTW on A relieving regulator the orifice is pretty small & in Cliff's case it is venting > the internal volume of his 4 thrusters in the last 30ft of ascent. > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 9/12/2017, at 4:37 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> I am new to air compensating so I need to know if the air line size to each of my actuators is critical. To save money I want to recycle the high pressure nylon tubing that is used for hydraulic lines on my hydraulic arm. The nylon air lines are a bit over .125 ID >> thanks' >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 9 19:23:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 00:23:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] air compensation In-Reply-To: <6D28B45B-7D11-4BEF-A634-A331D0CCAA14@yahoo.com> References: <390793538.1627017.1512790644832.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <390793538.1627017.1512790644832@mail.yahoo.com> <1728590.1736114.1512822323608@mail.yahoo.com> <1812622296.1702932.1512823981693@mail.yahoo.com> <6D28B45B-7D11-4BEF-A634-A331D0CCAA14@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <631289203.1957141.1512865433587@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Hmmm, looks like a test is in order.?Hank On Saturday, December 9, 2017, 11:46:13 AM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,Hugh is the expert on this, but....if the supply pressure is 130psi to the inlet port of the regulator, then if therewas a drop of pressure down stream caused by the piston extending, youwould get pressure at 130psi flowing in until the back pressure in the system?( hose & actuator) reached your set pressure (4psi). It doesn't looklike a simple equation because the 130psi would be flowing in very slowlyinitially, as the valve slowly opened.?? ?Now to the ascent! If you are using a relieving regulator set at 4psi then thepressure that it relieves at will be set by the strength of the spring in the handlecontrolling the relieving valve.You could change what it is preset at by buying a new spring or maybe grindinga bit off it. Say it is set at 2psi above your main setting, then the internal pressureof the regulator would be 6psi above ambient before it started relieving.The worst case scenario would be ascending from 30ft where the pressure woulddouble if it wasn't relieved. Any pressure in the hose is going to increase as willthe flow, so not an easy equation.?You might want to guess what internal pressure the actuator can take & be carefulof the wire gland fitting that nothing can blow out.Cheers Alan? Sent from my iPad On 10/12/2017, at 1:53 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, thanks'I just googled an air flow chart, and the .125 air hose can supply .5 scfm at 5 psi. ?So now I have to calculate the volume change in the actuator ?at my dive rate and see if .5 scfm will supply each actuator. ?I was not worried about the line supplying the actuator when it was operating. ?My concern was for the line to keep up while descending. ?I also thought I might need a relief valve on each actuator for rapid ascents. ?Hank On Saturday, December 9, 2017, 5:25:45 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I assumed that the air pressure at the out port of the regulator is 4 psi above ambient. ?My concern is,, will the .125 air line supply air fast enough at 4psi to maintain 4psi above ambient inside the actuator. ??Hank On Friday, December 8, 2017, 10:01:31 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,you will have the internal space of your actuator to equalise, whichshouldn't be a problem as this will be slowly equalised as you descend.Then you have the piston going out during manipulator use, & there will be air goingin to fill that void. If you are running either off a 1st stage regulator or a relievingregulator like Cliff's, the air will be kept at ambient & it will only be that smallflow in to the space the piston has vacated.?You could estimate the internal volume change by using an on line cylinder volume calculator & plugging in the piston diameter & the difference in length it changes?as it protrudes.If the actuators full stroke takes (as an example) 4 seconds at full speed, &the volume is 100ml, you could then run air through your intended hose at your supply pressure (130 psi for scuba regulator) in to a small crushed plastic bag, & see if it canat least fill the bag with 100ml of air in 4 seconds.?Have done similar for rough estimates.Or just blow through the hose in to a plastic bag ( like lots of people do at Christmastime) & you might think yep this will do with 130psi behind it.BTW on A relieving regulator the orifice is pretty small & in Cliff's case it is ventingthe internal volume of his 4 thrusters in the last 30ft of ascent.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 9/12/2017, at 4:37 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I am new to air compensating so I need to know if the air line size to each of my actuators is critical. ?To save money I want to recycle ?the high pressure nylon tubing that is used for hydraulic lines on my hydraulic arm. ?The nylon air lines ?are a bit over .125 IDthanks'Hank? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 10 14:29:04 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 11:29:04 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Message-ID: <20171210112904.2D1B49CD@m0117459.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 10 16:32:21 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 22:32:21 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber In-Reply-To: <20171210112904.2D1B49CD@m0117459.ppops.net> References: <20171210112904.2D1B49CD@m0117459.ppops.net> Message-ID: <053901d371fe$5ccd8100$16688300$@nl> Brian, Maybe you can convert one to a scrubber. But such a filter is not a cheap start and it is better to have a acrylic tube as housing. To fine mesh will be clogged with dust. Br, Emile My design: https://www.airesearch.nl/products/ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 10 december 2017 20:29 Aan: PSubs Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Hey All, How about these to make a scrubber out of: http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#cornydryhopper Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 10 17:00:40 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:00:40 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber In-Reply-To: <20171210112904.2D1B49CD@m0117459.ppops.net> References: <20171210112904.2D1B49CD@m0117459.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, I have looked at all sorts of filters to see if there is anything mass produced & cheap that might be easily adapted. Haven't found anything yet that is worthwhile adapting. There may be something ( & I continue to keep my eyes open) but there are all sorts of peculiarities specific to a submarines requirements like fan, spring, height to diameter ratio & a transparent container & it seems easier, as Emile says, to start with an acrylic tube. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/12/2017, at 8:29 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hey All, > How about these to make a scrubber out of: > > http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#cornydryhopper > > > Brian > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 10 17:08:35 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 14:08:35 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Message-ID: <20171210140835.2D1B4348@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 10 17:25:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 14:25:53 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Message-ID: <20171210142553.2D1B436E@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 10 17:54:08 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:54:08 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber In-Reply-To: <20171210142553.2D1B436E@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20171210142553.2D1B436E@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: So you are making a radial scrubber? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/12/2017, at 11:25 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Correction: this is the one I have on order: > > http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Outdoor/Patio-Heaters-Parts-Accessories/Tall-Patio-Heater-Main-Burner-Screen > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber > Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 14:08:35 -0800 > > Yes but you want maximum surface area to be coming in from the perimeter of the canister , the outside should be all screen I should think. I also have this coming by post soon : > > https://www.amazon.com/Main-Burner-Emitter-Screen-10-25/dp/B00V3J1JPC/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1494280355&sr=8-22&keywords=patio+heater+replacement+parts > > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber > Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:00:40 +1300 > > Brian, > I have looked at all sorts of filters to see if there is anything mass > produced & cheap that might be easily adapted. Haven't found anything > yet that is worthwhile adapting. There may be something ( & I continue to > keep my eyes open) but there are all sorts of peculiarities specific to a submarines requirements like fan, spring, height to diameter ratio & a transparent container > & it seems easier, as Emile says, to start with an acrylic tube. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 11/12/2017, at 8:29 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hey All, > How about these to make a scrubber out of: > > http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#cornydryhopper > > > Brian > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 10 17:57:23 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 14:57:23 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Message-ID: <20171210145723.2D1B40F2@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 10 19:31:30 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 00:31:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber In-Reply-To: <20171210145723.2D1B40F2@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20171210145723.2D1B40F2@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: <2045729821.2393519.1512952290419@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,I made a scrubber last year that works a treat from 4 inch PVC pipe with a 2 inch hollow core made with you guessed it 2 inch PVC end caps. ?I bought some screen to cover the aluminum mesh and had to do a tiny bit of machining. ?I used a PVC threaded cap with foam under the cap to compress the absorbent. ?Not pretty, but works fantastic for under 20 dollars. ?Seems anything can be a scrubber!Hank On Sunday, December 10, 2017, 3:57:36 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, that's the plan.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:54:08 +1300 So you are making a radial scrubber?Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/12/2017, at 11:25 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Correction:?? this is the one I have on order:?http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Outdoor/Patio-Heaters-Parts-Accessories/Tall-Patio-Heater-Main-Burner-Screen?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 14:08:35 -0800 Yes but you want maximum surface area to be coming in from the perimeter of the canister , the outside should be all screen I should think.? I also have this coming by post soon :?https://www.amazon.com/Main-Burner-Emitter-Screen-10-25/dp/B00V3J1JPC/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1494280355&sr=8-22&keywords=patio+heater+replacement+parts??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:00:40 +1300 Brian,I have looked at all sorts of filters to see if there is anything mass?produced & cheap that might be easily adapted. Haven't found anythingyet that is worthwhile adapting. There may be something ( & I continue tokeep my eyes open) but there are all sorts of peculiarities specific to a submarines requirements like fan, spring, height to diameter ratio & a transparent container& it seems easier, as Emile says, to start with an acrylic tube.Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/12/2017, at 8:29 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey All,??????????????????? How about these to make a scrubber out of:?http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#cornydryhopper??Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 10 19:56:52 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 16:56:52 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Message-ID: <20171210165652.2D1B4EAB@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 10 20:05:17 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 17:05:17 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Message-ID: <20171210170517.2D1B4E4E@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 10 20:05:54 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 01:05:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber In-Reply-To: <20171210165652.2D1B4EAB@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20171210165652.2D1B4EAB@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: <834476211.2393175.1512954354544@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,The PVC scrubber is 126 cubic inch. ?The scrubber is made to fit Elementary 3000. ?The only draw back to a small sphere is mounting items like the scrubbers. ?I will put two of these in and they hold one package of absorbent each. ? I prefer two scrubbers if you have the space, and Gamma has two also.Hank On Sunday, December 10, 2017, 5:57:12 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,?? What would be the total cu in volume of absorbent that it holds would you estimate??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 00:31:30 +0000 (UTC) Brian,I made a scrubber last year that works a treat from 4 inch PVC pipe with a 2 inch hollow core made with you guessed it 2 inch PVC end caps. ?I bought some screen to cover the aluminum mesh and had to do a tiny bit of machining. ?I used a PVC threaded cap with foam under the cap to compress the absorbent. ?Not pretty, but works fantastic for under 20 dollars. ?Seems anything can be a scrubber!Hank On Sunday, December 10, 2017, 3:57:36 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, that's the plan.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:54:08 +1300 So you are making a radial scrubber?Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/12/2017, at 11:25 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Correction:?? this is the one I have on order:?http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Outdoor/Patio-Heaters-Parts-Accessories/Tall-Patio-Heater-Main-Burner-Screen?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 14:08:35 -0800 Yes but you want maximum surface area to be coming in from the perimeter of the canister , the outside should be all screen I should think.? I also have this coming by post soon :?https://www.amazon.com/Main-Burner-Emitter-Screen-10-25/dp/B00V3J1JPC/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1494280355&sr=8-22&keywords=patio+heater+replacement+parts??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:00:40 +1300 Brian,I have looked at all sorts of filters to see if there is anything mass?produced & cheap that might be easily adapted. Haven't found anythingyet that is worthwhile adapting. There may be something ( & I continue tokeep my eyes open) but there are all sorts of peculiarities specific to a submarines requirements like fan, spring, height to diameter ratio & a transparent container& it seems easier, as Emile says, to start with an acrylic tube.Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/12/2017, at 8:29 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey All,??????????????????? How about these to make a scrubber out of:?http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#cornydryhopper??Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 10 20:13:51 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 01:13:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber In-Reply-To: <20171210170517.2D1B4E4E@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20171210170517.2D1B4E4E@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: <2030004419.2432520.1512954831913@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,My main scrubber in Gamma is larger also but I find that I prefer smaller. ?Ideally from a cost perspective, consider ?one large scrubber and one or more small scrubbers that can be sealed completely. ?The problem with one large scrubber is you waste absorbent, because you don't use it all in one dive. ?Do your normal diving off small scrubbers so they are spent and use the big scrubber in an emergency. ??Hank On Sunday, December 10, 2017, 6:05:32 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: If use a 4" dia X 12" internal mesh cylinder I would have about 791.70 cu in of absorbent available.? ?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 16:56:52 -0800 Hank,?? What would be the total cu in volume of absorbent that it holds would you estimate??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 00:31:30 +0000 (UTC) Brian,I made a scrubber last year that works a treat from 4 inch PVC pipe with a 2 inch hollow core made with you guessed it 2 inch PVC end caps. ?I bought some screen to cover the aluminum mesh and had to do a tiny bit of machining. ?I used a PVC threaded cap with foam under the cap to compress the absorbent. ?Not pretty, but works fantastic for under 20 dollars. ?Seems anything can be a scrubber!Hank On Sunday, December 10, 2017, 3:57:36 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, that's the plan.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:54:08 +1300 So you are making a radial scrubber?Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/12/2017, at 11:25 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Correction:?? this is the one I have on order:?http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Outdoor/Patio-Heaters-Parts-Accessories/Tall-Patio-Heater-Main-Burner-Screen?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 14:08:35 -0800 Yes but you want maximum surface area to be coming in from the perimeter of the canister , the outside should be all screen I should think.? I also have this coming by post soon :?https://www.amazon.com/Main-Burner-Emitter-Screen-10-25/dp/B00V3J1JPC/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1494280355&sr=8-22&keywords=patio+heater+replacement+parts??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:00:40 +1300 Brian,I have looked at all sorts of filters to see if there is anything mass?produced & cheap that might be easily adapted. Haven't found anythingyet that is worthwhile adapting. There may be something ( & I continue tokeep my eyes open) but there are all sorts of peculiarities specific to a submarines requirements like fan, spring, height to diameter ratio & a transparent container& it seems easier, as Emile says, to start with an acrylic tube.Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/12/2017, at 8:29 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey All,??????????????????? How about these to make a scrubber out of:?http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#cornydryhopper??Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 10 20:18:47 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 17:18:47 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Message-ID: <20171210171847.2D1B4E0A@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 10 21:25:52 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 02:25:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber In-Reply-To: <20171210171847.2D1B4E0A@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20171210171847.2D1B4E0A@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: <717409019.2445919.1512959152169@mail.yahoo.com> Brian, a quick guess is 95 cu ft with escape pod.Hank On Sunday, December 10, 2017, 6:19:01 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,???????????????? ?I have 96.69 cu ft of volume inside my sub, ;how much does Gamma have??Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 01:05:54 +0000 (UTC) Brian,The PVC scrubber is 126 cubic inch. ?The scrubber is made to fit Elementary 3000. ?The only draw back to a small sphere is mounting items like the scrubbers. ?I will put two of these in and they hold one package of absorbent each. ? I prefer two scrubbers if you have the space, and Gamma has two also.Hank On Sunday, December 10, 2017, 5:57:12 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,?? What would be the total cu in volume of absorbent that it holds would you estimate??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 00:31:30 +0000 (UTC) Brian,I made a scrubber last year that works a treat from 4 inch PVC pipe with a 2 inch hollow core made with you guessed it 2 inch PVC end caps. ?I bought some screen to cover the aluminum mesh and had to do a tiny bit of machining. ?I used a PVC threaded cap with foam under the cap to compress the absorbent. ?Not pretty, but works fantastic for under 20 dollars. ?Seems anything can be a scrubber!Hank On Sunday, December 10, 2017, 3:57:36 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, that's the plan.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:54:08 +1300 So you are making a radial scrubber?Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/12/2017, at 11:25 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Correction:?? this is the one I have on order:?http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Outdoor/Patio-Heaters-Parts-Accessories/Tall-Patio-Heater-Main-Burner-Screen?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 14:08:35 -0800 Yes but you want maximum surface area to be coming in from the perimeter of the canister , the outside should be all screen I should think.? I also have this coming by post soon :?https://www.amazon.com/Main-Burner-Emitter-Screen-10-25/dp/B00V3J1JPC/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1494280355&sr=8-22&keywords=patio+heater+replacement+parts??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:00:40 +1300 Brian,I have looked at all sorts of filters to see if there is anything mass?produced & cheap that might be easily adapted. Haven't found anythingyet that is worthwhile adapting. There may be something ( & I continue tokeep my eyes open) but there are all sorts of peculiarities specific to a submarines requirements like fan, spring, height to diameter ratio & a transparent container& it seems easier, as Emile says, to start with an acrylic tube.Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/12/2017, at 8:29 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey All,??????????????????? How about these to make a scrubber out of:?http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#cornydryhopper??Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 11 13:47:16 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 10:47:16 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Message-ID: <20171211104716.2D1B340C@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 11 18:19:34 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 23:19:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber In-Reply-To: <20171211104716.2D1B340C@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20171211104716.2D1B340C@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <354200706.3228212.1513034374966@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,I am not the best person to comment on scrubbers, but I think almost anything works. ?Size of scrubber is a matter of personal preference. ?We all have different ways of doing things, as long as at the end of the day your CO2 PPM is in your desired range. ?Again, I like small multiple scrubbers, I am a cheap skate and will use absorbent until it is spent. ?That means the absorbent is sitting in a damp space until it is fired up again. ?I have had absorbent turn into a block, and that is a waste.Hank On Monday, December 11, 2017, 11:47:56 AM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,???? I could probably go bigger on my inside diameter cylinder screen.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 01:13:51 +0000 (UTC) Brian,My main scrubber in Gamma is larger also but I find that I prefer smaller. ?Ideally from a cost perspective, consider ?one large scrubber and one or more small scrubbers that can be sealed completely. ?The problem with one large scrubber is you waste absorbent, because you don't use it all in one dive. ?Do your normal diving off small scrubbers so they are spent and use the big scrubber in an emergency. ??Hank On Sunday, December 10, 2017, 6:05:32 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: If use a 4" dia X 12" internal mesh cylinder I would have about 791.70 cu in of absorbent available.? ?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 16:56:52 -0800 Hank,?? What would be the total cu in volume of absorbent that it holds would you estimate??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 00:31:30 +0000 (UTC) Brian,I made a scrubber last year that works a treat from 4 inch PVC pipe with a 2 inch hollow core made with you guessed it 2 inch PVC end caps. ?I bought some screen to cover the aluminum mesh and had to do a tiny bit of machining. ?I used a PVC threaded cap with foam under the cap to compress the absorbent. ?Not pretty, but works fantastic for under 20 dollars. ?Seems anything can be a scrubber!Hank On Sunday, December 10, 2017, 3:57:36 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, that's the plan.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:54:08 +1300 So you are making a radial scrubber?Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/12/2017, at 11:25 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Correction:?? this is the one I have on order:?http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Outdoor/Patio-Heaters-Parts-Accessories/Tall-Patio-Heater-Main-Burner-Screen?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 14:08:35 -0800 Yes but you want maximum surface area to be coming in from the perimeter of the canister , the outside should be all screen I should think.? I also have this coming by post soon :?https://www.amazon.com/Main-Burner-Emitter-Screen-10-25/dp/B00V3J1JPC/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1494280355&sr=8-22&keywords=patio+heater+replacement+parts??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:00:40 +1300 Brian,I have looked at all sorts of filters to see if there is anything mass?produced & cheap that might be easily adapted. Haven't found anythingyet that is worthwhile adapting. There may be something ( & I continue tokeep my eyes open) but there are all sorts of peculiarities specific to a submarines requirements like fan, spring, height to diameter ratio & a transparent container& it seems easier, as Emile says, to start with an acrylic tube.Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/12/2017, at 8:29 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey All,??????????????????? How about these to make a scrubber out of:?http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#cornydryhopper??Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 11 20:20:33 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 17:20:33 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Message-ID: <20171211172033.2D1B07A0@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 11 20:38:14 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 17:38:14 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ferro Hull Message-ID: <20171211173814.2D1A9339@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 11 20:39:25 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 15:39:25 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber In-Reply-To: <20171211172033.2D1B07A0@m0117164.ppops.net> References: <20171211172033.2D1B07A0@m0117164.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hank, I would think it would be fine as long as you used an air tight bag to put it in and flushed it out with an inert gas before sealing it closed as it is the 02 that does the damage. Rick On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Is it possible to put a plastic bag around the whole scrubber to keep it > from getting spent? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber > Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 23:19:34 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, > I am not the best person to comment on scrubbers, but I think almost > anything works. Size of scrubber is a matter of personal preference. We > all have different ways of doing things, as long as at the end of the day > your CO2 PPM is in your desired range. Again, I like small multiple > scrubbers, I am a cheap skate and will use absorbent until it is spent. > That means the absorbent is sitting in a damp space until it is fired up > again. I have had absorbent turn into a block, and that is a waste. > Hank > > On Monday, December 11, 2017, 11:47:56 AM MST, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, I could probably go bigger on my inside diameter cylinder screen. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber > Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 01:13:51 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, > My main scrubber in Gamma is larger also but I find that I prefer > smaller. Ideally from a cost perspective, consider one large scrubber and > one or more small scrubbers that can be sealed completely. The problem > with one large scrubber is you waste absorbent, because you don't use it > all in one dive. Do your normal diving off small scrubbers so they are > spent and use the big scrubber in an emergency. > Hank > > > On Sunday, December 10, 2017, 6:05:32 PM MST, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > If use a 4" dia X 12" internal mesh cylinder I would have about 791.70 cu > in of absorbent available. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber > Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 16:56:52 -0800 > > Hank, What would be the total cu in volume of absorbent that it holds > would you estimate? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber > Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 00:31:30 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, > I made a scrubber last year that works a treat from 4 inch PVC pipe with a > 2 inch hollow core made with you guessed it 2 inch PVC end caps. I bought > some screen to cover the aluminum mesh and had to do a tiny bit of > machining. I used a PVC threaded cap with foam under the cap to compress > the absorbent. Not pretty, but works fantastic for under 20 dollars. > Seems anything can be a scrubber! > Hank > > On Sunday, December 10, 2017, 3:57:36 PM MST, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Yes, that's the plan. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber > Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:54:08 +1300 > > So you are making a radial scrubber? > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 11/12/2017, at 11:25 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Correction: this is the one I have on order: > > http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Outdoor/Patio-Heaters-Parts- > Accessories/Tall-Patio-Heater-Main-Burner-Screen > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber > Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 14:08:35 -0800 > > Yes but you want maximum surface area to be coming in from the perimeter > of the canister , the outside should be all screen I should think. I also > have this coming by post soon : > > https://www.amazon.com/Main-Burner-Emitter-Screen-10-25/ > dp/B00V3J1JPC/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1494280355&sr=8-22& > keywords=patio+heater+replacement+parts > > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber > Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:00:40 +1300 > > Brian, > I have looked at all sorts of filters to see if there is anything mass > produced & cheap that might be easily adapted. Haven't found anything > yet that is worthwhile adapting. There may be something ( & I continue to > keep my eyes open) but there are all sorts of peculiarities specific to a > submarines requirements like fan, spring, height to diameter ratio & a > transparent container > & it seems easier, as Emile says, to start with an acrylic tube. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 11/12/2017, at 8:29 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hey All, > How about these to make a scrubber out of: > > http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#cornydryhopper > > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 12 05:15:38 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 10:15:38 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Extractor Message-ID: Has anyone ever made a cheap smoke extractor? I need one to suck up smoke when arc welding in my shop as there is not much ventilation. "Proper" ones are really expensive. It cant be that difficult to make something. Better contact me off list as its not really sub related. Thanks james From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 12 06:15:34 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 11:15:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber In-Reply-To: <20171211172033.2D1B07A0@m0117164.ppops.net> References: <20171211172033.2D1B07A0@m0117164.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1608225616.3513124.1513077334520@mail.yahoo.com> Brian, I think a plastic bag works, because that is what I do.One nice thing about flipping your ballast tank over, it must give you confidence with how tough it is.Hank On Monday, December 11, 2017, 6:20:51 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Is it possible to put a plastic bag around the whole scrubber to keep it from getting spent??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 23:19:34 +0000 (UTC) Brian,I am not the best person to comment on scrubbers, but I think almost anything works. ?Size of scrubber is a matter of personal preference. ?We all have different ways of doing things, as long as at the end of the day your CO2 PPM is in your desired range. ?Again, I like small multiple scrubbers, I am a cheap skate and will use absorbent until it is spent. ?That means the absorbent is sitting in a damp space until it is fired up again. ?I have had absorbent turn into a block, and that is a waste.Hank On Monday, December 11, 2017, 11:47:56 AM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,???? I could probably go bigger on my inside diameter cylinder screen.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 01:13:51 +0000 (UTC) Brian,My main scrubber in Gamma is larger also but I find that I prefer smaller. ?Ideally from a cost perspective, consider ?one large scrubber and one or more small scrubbers that can be sealed completely. ?The problem with one large scrubber is you waste absorbent, because you don't use it all in one dive. ?Do your normal diving off small scrubbers so they are spent and use the big scrubber in an emergency. ??Hank On Sunday, December 10, 2017, 6:05:32 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: If use a 4" dia X 12" internal mesh cylinder I would have about 791.70 cu in of absorbent available.? ?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 16:56:52 -0800 Hank,?? What would be the total cu in volume of absorbent that it holds would you estimate??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 00:31:30 +0000 (UTC) Brian,I made a scrubber last year that works a treat from 4 inch PVC pipe with a 2 inch hollow core made with you guessed it 2 inch PVC end caps. ?I bought some screen to cover the aluminum mesh and had to do a tiny bit of machining. ?I used a PVC threaded cap with foam under the cap to compress the absorbent. ?Not pretty, but works fantastic for under 20 dollars. ?Seems anything can be a scrubber!Hank On Sunday, December 10, 2017, 3:57:36 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, that's the plan.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:54:08 +1300 So you are making a radial scrubber?Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/12/2017, at 11:25 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Correction:?? this is the one I have on order:?http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Outdoor/Patio-Heaters-Parts-Accessories/Tall-Patio-Heater-Main-Burner-Screen?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 14:08:35 -0800 Yes but you want maximum surface area to be coming in from the perimeter of the canister , the outside should be all screen I should think.? I also have this coming by post soon :?https://www.amazon.com/Main-Burner-Emitter-Screen-10-25/dp/B00V3J1JPC/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1494280355&sr=8-22&keywords=patio+heater+replacement+parts??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:00:40 +1300 Brian,I have looked at all sorts of filters to see if there is anything mass?produced & cheap that might be easily adapted. Haven't found anythingyet that is worthwhile adapting. There may be something ( & I continue tokeep my eyes open) but there are all sorts of peculiarities specific to a submarines requirements like fan, spring, height to diameter ratio & a transparent container& it seems easier, as Emile says, to start with an acrylic tube.Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/12/2017, at 8:29 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey All,??????????????????? How about these to make a scrubber out of:?http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#cornydryhopper??Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 12 11:56:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 08:56:49 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ferro Hull Message-ID: <20171212085649.2D1AB9E0@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 12 13:42:16 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 08:42:16 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Extractor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: James, Tried to contact you offline but didn't have luck for some reason but this could have some value to the others that are in the same boat "pun intended" as you. One way would be to make a 4 sided hood out of cardboard or plywood that had the large opening say 4' X 4' on the bottom with the pyramid tapering down to an opening that was 1" square at the top. The height would be dependent on the height you had to work with in your shop. Suspend this hood over the area you are stick welding, connect a shop vac hose to the upper small opening and run the discharge end of your shop vac hose outside your shop. The other way was how we did it in the habitat when we switched from tig welding to stick welding. Both guys had a flex hose with a magnet on the end of it and we would just keep moving the hose up the pipe as we went and as close to the weld as possible and it worked great to keep a clean atmosphere in the small room. The smoke was sucked up to the surface, analyzed, then cleaned and heated and then pumped back down to the habitat and came out a vent so basically recycled. Hope this helpes Rick On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 12:15 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Has anyone ever made a cheap smoke extractor? I need one to suck up > smoke when arc welding in my shop as there is not much ventilation. > > "Proper" ones are really expensive. It cant be that difficult to make > something. > > Better contact me off list as its not really sub related. > > Thanks > james > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 12 16:29:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 13:29:56 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] connrete cutting Message-ID: <20171212132956.2D1AD973@m0117459.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: cut-out3.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 98154 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Jorge.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 119424 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 12 16:40:24 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 13:40:24 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cutting pics Message-ID: <20171212134024.2D1ADEA1@m0117459.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: cut-out.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 84467 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: cut-out2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 89569 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 12 16:42:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 13:42:49 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] more ferro pics Message-ID: <20171212134249.2D1ADEC0@m0117459.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: damage.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 97932 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pick-up.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 90734 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 13 01:33:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 22:33:50 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cutting pics In-Reply-To: <20171212134024.2D1ADEA1@m0117459.ppops.net> References: <20171212134024.2D1ADEA1@m0117459.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi Brian, are there any concerns about the voids in the cement when at depth? On Dec 12, 2017 1:41 PM, "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Here is the source of my pin hole leaks. Some areas at the center where > the rebar did not get completely filled with cement left a slight void. > Most areas were good but where I had bolt holes going through the holes > would intersect the void and give a path to air or water. This is probably > due to having the cement too dry when plastering. It's a delicate > balance , if the cement is too wet it won't adhere properly, too dry and > you get voids like shown. If I did it again I would blast the whole thing > with a pressure cement sprayer , let that set up and then go back over it > with regular plastering. But for the most part I did get good > penetration. > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 13 02:25:11 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 23:25:11 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cutting pics Message-ID: <20171212232511.2D1A115F@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 13 06:57:44 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 11:57:44 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Extractor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Rick Thanks for the ideas. Ive just bought a standard shop ventilator, a load of galvanised pipe and some flexible tubing. Some sort of adjustable arm contraption hanging from the ceiling and I should be good to go. Regards James On 12 December 2017 at 18:42, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > James, > > Tried to contact you offline but didn't have luck for some reason but this > could have some value to the others that are in the same boat "pun intended" > as you. One way would be to make a 4 sided hood out of cardboard or plywood > that had the large opening say 4' X 4' on the bottom with the pyramid > tapering down to an opening that was 1" square at the top. The height would > be dependent on the height you had to work with in your shop. Suspend this > hood over the area you are stick welding, connect a shop vac hose to the > upper small opening and run the discharge end of your shop vac hose outside > your shop. > The other way was how we did it in the habitat when we switched from tig > welding to stick welding. Both guys had a flex hose with a magnet on the end > of it and we would just keep moving the hose up the pipe as we went and as > close to the weld as possible and it worked great to keep a clean atmosphere > in the small room. The smoke was sucked up to the surface, analyzed, then > cleaned and heated and then pumped back down to the habitat and came out a > vent so basically recycled. > Hope this helpes > Rick > > On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 12:15 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Has anyone ever made a cheap smoke extractor? I need one to suck up >> smoke when arc welding in my shop as there is not much ventilation. >> >> "Proper" ones are really expensive. It cant be that difficult to make >> something. >> >> Better contact me off list as its not really sub related. >> >> Thanks >> james >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 13 19:43:47 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 00:43:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber References: <330524998.5104140.1513212227015.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <330524998.5104140.1513212227015@mail.yahoo.com> Hank, Pleases post some pictures. My thought is multiple small scrubbers sealed in cling wrap is the to go. When one is spent unwrap another attach the fan and rock n roll. One could make a router template to make the flat parts for a design like Alec's and easily churn a couple of scrubbers. -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/10/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber To: "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" Date: Sunday, December 10, 2017, 6:31 PM Brian,I made a scrubber last year that works a treat from 4 inch PVC pipe with a 2 inch hollow core made with you guessed it 2 inch PVC end caps. ?I bought some screen to cover the aluminum mesh and had to do a tiny bit of machining. ?I used a PVC threaded cap with foam under the cap to compress the absorbent. ?Not pretty, but works fantastic for under 20 dollars. ?Seems anything can be a scrubber!Hank On Sunday, December 10, 2017, 3:57:36 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, that's the plan.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:54:08 +1300 So you are making a radial scrubber?Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/12/2017, at 11:25 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Correction:?? this is the one I have on order:?http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Outdoor/Patio-Heaters-Parts-Accessories/Tall-Patio-Heater-Main-Burner-Screen?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 14:08:35 -0800 Yes but you want maximum surface area to be coming in from the perimeter of the canister , the outside should be all screen I should think.? I also have this coming by post soon :?https://www.amazon.com/Main-Burner-Emitter-Screen-10-25/dp/B00V3J1JPC/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1494280355&sr=8-22&keywords=patio+heater+replacement+parts??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:00:40 +1300 Brian,I have looked at all sorts of filters to see if there is anything mass?produced & cheap that might be easily adapted. Haven't found anythingyet that is worthwhile adapting. There may be something ( & I continue tokeep my eyes open) but there are all sorts of peculiarities specific to a submarines requirements like fan, spring, height to diameter ratio & a transparent container& it seems easier, as Emile says, to start with an acrylic tube.Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/12/2017, at 8:29 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey All,??????????????????? How about these to make a scrubber out of:?http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#cornydryhopper??Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 13 20:16:02 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 17:16:02 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Message-ID: <20171213171602.2D1A2733@m0117459.ppops.net> You would want enough on hand to give you 72 hours per person. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 00:43:47 +0000 (UTC) Hank, Pleases post some pictures. My thought is multiple small scrubbers sealed in cling wrap is the to go. When one is spent unwrap another attach the fan and rock n roll. One could make a router template to make the flat parts for a design like Alec's and easily churn a couple of scrubbers. -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/10/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber To: "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" Date: Sunday, December 10, 2017, 6:31 PM Brian,I made a scrubber last year that works a treat from 4 inch PVC pipe with a 2 inch hollow core made with you guessed it 2 inch PVC end caps. ?I bought some screen to cover the aluminum mesh and had to do a tiny bit of machining. ?I used a PVC threaded cap with foam under the cap to compress the absorbent. ?Not pretty, but works fantastic for under 20 dollars. ?Seems anything can be a scrubber!Hank On Sunday, December 10, 2017, 3:57:36 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, that's the plan.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:54:08 +1300 So you are making a radial scrubber?Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/12/2017, at 11:25 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Correction:?? this is the one I have on order:?http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Outdoor/Patio-Heaters-Parts-Accessories/Tall-Patio-Heater-Main-Burner-Screen?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 14:08:35 -0800 Yes but you want maximum surface area to be coming in from the perimeter of the canister , the outside should be all screen I should think.? I also have this coming by post soon :?https://www.amazon.com/Main-Burner-Emitter-Screen-10-25/dp/B00V3J1JPC/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1494280355&sr=8-22&keywords=patio+heater+replacement+parts??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:00:40 +1300 Brian,I have looked at all sorts of filters to see if there is anything mass?produced & cheap that might be easily adapted. Haven't found anythingyet that is worthwhile adapting. There may be something ( & I continue tokeep my eyes open) but there are all sorts of peculiarities specific to a submarines requirements like fan, spring, height to diameter ratio & a transparent container& it seems easier, as Emile says, to start with an acrylic tube.Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/12/2017, at 8:29 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey All,??????????????????? How about these to make a scrubber out of:?http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#cornydryhopper??Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 13 20:51:42 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 01:51:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber In-Reply-To: <20171213171602.2D1A2733@m0117459.ppops.net> References: <20171213171602.2D1A2733@m0117459.ppops.net> Message-ID: <2126318.5134440.1513216302765@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Pete,I can do, I will try to remember tomorrow. ?I like that idea to just replace the canister onto a fan assembly. ?In fact I love that idea, it would have to be designed to replace quickly. ?Hank On Wednesday, December 13, 2017, 6:16:16 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: You would want enough on hand to give you 72 hours per person. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 00:43:47 +0000 (UTC) Hank, Pleases post some pictures. My thought is multiple small scrubbers sealed in cling wrap is the to go. When one is spent unwrap another attach the fan and rock n roll. One could make a router template to make the flat parts for a design like Alec's and easily churn a couple of scrubbers. -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/10/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber To: "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" Date: Sunday, December 10, 2017, 6:31 PM ? ? ? ? ? ? Brian,I made a scrubber last year that works a treat from 4 inch PVC pipe with a 2 inch hollow core made with you guessed it 2 inch PVC end caps. ?I bought some screen to cover the aluminum mesh and had to do a tiny bit of machining. ?I used a PVC threaded cap with foam under the cap to compress the absorbent. ?Not pretty, but works fantastic for under 20 dollars. ?Seems anything can be a scrubber!Hank ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? On Sunday, December 10, 2017, 3:57:36 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Yes, that's the plan.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:54:08 +1300 So you are making a radial scrubber?Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/12/2017, at 11:25 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Correction:?? this is the one I have on order:?http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Outdoor/Patio-Heaters-Parts-Accessories/Tall-Patio-Heater-Main-Burner-Screen?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 14:08:35 -0800 Yes but you want maximum surface area to be coming in from the perimeter of the canister , the outside should be all screen I should think.? I also have this coming by post soon :?https://www.amazon.com/Main-Burner-Emitter-Screen-10-25/dp/B00V3J1JPC/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1494280355&sr=8-22&keywords=patio+heater+replacement+parts??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:00:40 +1300 Brian,I have looked at all sorts of filters to see if there is anything mass?produced & cheap that might be easily adapted. Haven't found anythingyet that is worthwhile adapting. There may be something ( & I continue tokeep my eyes open) but there are all sorts of peculiarities specific to a submarines requirements like fan, spring, height to diameter ratio & a transparent container& it seems easier, as Emile says, to start with an acrylic tube.Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/12/2017, at 8:29 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey All,??????????????????? How about these to make a scrubber out of:?http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#cornydryhopper??Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 13 21:48:29 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 02:48:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber References: <844346614.5158768.1513219709731.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <844346614.5158768.1513219709731@mail.yahoo.com> It could be done easily just a twist on some studs counter to the fan rotation. Have an extra fan or 2 for backup quick connect electrical. Turn the absorbent canister into a cartridge and wrap for easy storage and deployment. -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 12/13/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber To: "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" Date: Wednesday, December 13, 2017, 7:51 PM Hi Pete,I can do, I will try to remember tomorrow. ?I like that idea to just replace the canister onto a fan assembly. ?In fact I love that idea, it would have to be designed to replace quickly. ?Hank On Wednesday, December 13, 2017, 6:16:16 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: You would want enough on hand to give you 72 hours per person. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 00:43:47 +0000 (UTC) Hank, Pleases post some pictures. My thought is multiple small scrubbers sealed in cling wrap is the to go. When one is spent unwrap another attach the fan and rock n roll. One could make a router template to make the flat parts for a design like Alec's and easily churn a couple of scrubbers. -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/10/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber To: "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" Date: Sunday, December 10, 2017, 6:31 PM ? ? ? ? ? ? Brian,I made a scrubber last year that works a treat from 4 inch PVC pipe with a 2 inch hollow core made with you guessed it 2 inch PVC end caps. ?I bought some screen to cover the aluminum mesh and had to do a tiny bit of machining. ?I used a PVC threaded cap with foam under the cap to compress the absorbent. ?Not pretty, but works fantastic for under 20 dollars. ?Seems anything can be a scrubber!Hank ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? On Sunday, December 10, 2017, 3:57:36 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Yes, that's the plan.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:54:08 +1300 So you are making a radial scrubber?Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/12/2017, at 11:25 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Correction:?? this is the one I have on order:?http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Outdoor/Patio-Heaters-Parts-Accessories/Tall-Patio-Heater-Main-Burner-Screen?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 14:08:35 -0800 Yes but you want maximum surface area to be coming in from the perimeter of the canister , the outside should be all screen I should think.? I also have this coming by post soon :?https://www.amazon.com/Main-Burner-Emitter-Screen-10-25/dp/B00V3J1JPC/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1494280355&sr=8-22&keywords=patio+heater+replacement+parts??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:00:40 +1300 Brian,I have looked at all sorts of filters to see if there is anything mass?produced & cheap that might be easily adapted. Haven't found anythingyet that is worthwhile adapting. There may be something ( & I continue tokeep my eyes open) but there are all sorts of peculiarities specific to a submarines requirements like fan, spring, height to diameter ratio & a transparent container& it seems easier, as Emile says, to start with an acrylic tube.Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/12/2017, at 8:29 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey All,??????????????????? How about these to make a scrubber out of:?http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#cornydryhopper??Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 13 22:16:14 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 16:16:14 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber In-Reply-To: <844346614.5158768.1513219709731@mail.yahoo.com> References: <844346614.5158768.1513219709731.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <844346614.5158768.1513219709731@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <202903AF-2AFD-43AF-A749-0DFAF245A116@yahoo.com> How quickly does it deplete if it is just left as is with the hatch closed? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 14/12/2017, at 3:48 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > It could be done easily just a twist on some studs counter to the fan rotation. Have an extra fan or 2 for backup quick connect electrical. Turn the absorbent canister into a cartridge and wrap for easy storage and deployment. > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 12/13/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber > To: "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" > Date: Wednesday, December 13, 2017, 7:51 PM > > > Hi Pete,I can do, I will try to > remember tomorrow. I like that idea to just replace the > canister onto a fan assembly. In fact I love that idea, it > would have to be designed to replace quickly. > Hank > > > > > > > On Wednesday, December 13, 2017, > 6:16:16 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > > > You would want > enough on hand to give you 72 hours per person. > > Brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > From: Pete Niedermayr via > Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles > General Discussion > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 00:43:47 +0000 (UTC) > > Hank, Pleases post some > pictures. My thought is multiple small scrubbers sealed in > cling wrap is the to go. When one is spent unwrap another > attach the fan and rock n roll. One could make a router > template to make the flat parts for a design like Alec's > and easily churn a couple of scrubbers. > -------------------------------------------- > On Sun, 12/10/17, hank > pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber > To: "Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles" > Date: Sunday, December > 10, 2017, 6:31 PM > > > Brian,I > made a scrubber last > > year that works a treat from 4 inch PVC pipe with a 2 > inch > hollow core made > with you guessed it 2 inch PVC end caps. > I bought some screen to > cover the aluminum mesh and had to > do a tiny bit of > machining. I used a PVC threaded cap with > foam under the cap to > compress the absorbent. Not pretty, > but works fantastic for > under 20 dollars. Seems anything > can be a scrubber!Hank > > > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, December 10, > 2017, > 3:57:36 PM MST, > Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that's the > plan. Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > From: Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > > To: > Personal Submersibles > General Discussion > > > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber > Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:54:08 +1300 > > So you are making a > radial scrubber?Alan > > Sent from my iPad > On > 11/12/2017, at 11:25 AM, > Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > Correction: this is > the > one I have on > order: http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Outdoor/Patio-Heaters-Parts-Accessories/Tall-Patio-Heater-Main-Burner-Screen Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > From: Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles > > To: "Personal > Submersibles General > > Discussion" > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber > Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 14:08:35 -0800 > > Yes but you want > maximum > surface area > to be coming in from the perimeter of the > canister , the outside > should be all screen I should > think. I also have this coming by post soon > : https://www.amazon.com/Main-Burner-Emitter-Screen-10-25/dp/B00V3J1JPC/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1494280355&sr=8-22&keywords=patio+heater+replacement+parts Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > From: Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles > General Discussion > > > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber > Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:00:40 +1300 > > Brian,I > have looked at all sorts > of filters to see if there is > anything mass produced & cheap that might > be > easily adapted. > Haven't found anythingyet > that is worthwhile adapting. There may be > something ( & > I > continue tokeep my eyes open) but there are all > sorts of peculiarities > specific to a submarines requirements > like fan, spring, height > to diameter ratio & a > transparent container& it seems easier, as > Emile says, to start with > an acrylic > > tube.Alan > > Sent from my > iPad > On 11/12/2017, at 8:29 > AM, > Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Hey > > All, How > about these to make a > scrubber out > of: http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#cornydryhopper Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment > Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 13 22:37:26 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 16:37:26 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber In-Reply-To: <202903AF-2AFD-43AF-A749-0DFAF245A116@yahoo.com> References: <844346614.5158768.1513219709731.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <844346614.5158768.1513219709731@mail.yahoo.com> <202903AF-2AFD-43AF-A749-0DFAF245A116@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E8B167A-9260-4B4A-80AB-0639AA83666C@yahoo.com> Below is an extract on storage from a sodasorb pdf that answers my question. Talking about anaesthesia machines It says it should be changed if it is left in the machine for more than 48hrs. Dehydration seems their biggest concern. Storage in Warehouse ? Store Sodasorb absorbent in a clean, dry environment. Avoid contact with other chemicals, acid, or water. Sealed packages of Sodasorb absorbent are well protected against loss of moisture and have a shelf life of two years from the date of manufacture. An expiration date is marked on all packages. Once opened, packages are vulnerable to moisture loss, unless they are promptly and carefully resealed. The moisture in Sodasorb, as well as other absorbents, will expand when frozen and result in some granule fragmentation and excessive dust. Packages which have been subjected to repeated freeze/thaw cycles should be examined closely for dust and discarded if questionable. Indicator Sodasorb should not be stored under intense light, especially ultra-violet light, since this may degrade the ethyl violate indicator dye in Sodasorb absorbent. Storage within the Anesthesia Machine ? Carbon monoxide (CO) has been found to build up in unused anesthesia units. If Sodasorb absorbent is left in the machine, the absorber unit should be sealed and airtight. Change Sodasorb absorbent which has been in an idle absorber unit for more than 48 hours. Flush the anesthesia system with oxygen prior to use. Avoid storage under intense lights. Indicator Sodasorb absorbent containing ethyl violet indicator is light sensitive and may be subject to photodeactivation. It has been demonstrated that prolonged exposure of the granules to high intensity lights will hasten the failure of the ethyl violet indicator in Sodasorb absorbent. We recommend discarding any absorbent tinged with color. To avoid any under capacity for absorption, use only fresh Sodasorb absorbent for each charge. Sent from my iPad > On 14/12/2017, at 4:16 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > How quickly does it deplete if it is just left as is > with the hatch closed? > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 14/12/2017, at 3:48 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> It could be done easily just a twist on some studs counter to the fan rotation. Have an extra fan or 2 for backup quick connect electrical. Turn the absorbent canister into a cartridge and wrap for easy storage and deployment. >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Wed, 12/13/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber >> To: "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" >> Date: Wednesday, December 13, 2017, 7:51 PM >> >> >> Hi Pete,I can do, I will try to >> remember tomorrow. I like that idea to just replace the >> canister onto a fan assembly. In fact I love that idea, it >> would have to be designed to replace quickly. >> Hank >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, December 13, 2017, >> 6:16:16 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> You would want >> enough on hand to give you 72 hours per person. >> >> Brian >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> wrote: >> >> From: Pete Niedermayr via >> Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles >> General Discussion >> Subject: Re: >> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber >> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 00:43:47 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Hank, Pleases post some >> pictures. My thought is multiple small scrubbers sealed in >> cling wrap is the to go. When one is spent unwrap another >> attach the fan and rock n roll. One could make a router >> template to make the flat parts for a design like Alec's >> and easily churn a couple of scrubbers. >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Sun, 12/10/17, hank >> pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: >> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber >> To: "Brian Cox via >> Personal_Submersibles" >> Date: Sunday, December >> 10, 2017, 6:31 PM >> >> >> Brian,I >> made a scrubber last >> >> year that works a treat from 4 inch PVC pipe with a 2 >> inch >> hollow core made >> with you guessed it 2 inch PVC end caps. >> I bought some screen to >> cover the aluminum mesh and had to >> do a tiny bit of >> machining. I used a PVC threaded cap with >> foam under the cap to >> compress the absorbent. Not pretty, >> but works fantastic for >> under 20 dollars. Seems anything >> can be a scrubber!Hank >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sunday, December 10, >> 2017, >> 3:57:36 PM MST, >> Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Yes, that's the >> plan. Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> wrote: >> >> From: Alan via >> Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: >> Personal Submersibles >> General Discussion >> >> >> Subject: Re: >> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber >> Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:54:08 +1300 >> >> So you are making a >> radial scrubber?Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> On >> 11/12/2017, at 11:25 AM, >> Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> >> wrote: >> >> Correction: this is >> the >> one I have on >> order: http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Outdoor/Patio-Heaters-Parts-Accessories/Tall-Patio-Heater-Main-Burner-Screen Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> wrote: >> >> From: Brian Cox via >> Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: "Personal >> Submersibles General >> >> Discussion" >> Subject: Re: >> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber >> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 14:08:35 -0800 >> >> Yes but you want >> maximum >> surface area >> to be coming in from the perimeter of the >> canister , the outside >> should be all screen I should >> think. I also have this coming by post soon >> : https://www.amazon.com/Main-Burner-Emitter-Screen-10-25/dp/B00V3J1JPC/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1494280355&sr=8-22&keywords=patio+heater+replacement+parts Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> wrote: >> >> From: Alan via >> Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: Personal Submersibles >> General Discussion >> >> >> Subject: Re: >> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber >> Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:00:40 +1300 >> >> Brian,I >> have looked at all sorts >> of filters to see if there is >> anything mass produced & cheap that might >> be >> easily adapted. >> Haven't found anythingyet >> that is worthwhile adapting. There may be >> something ( & >> I >> continue tokeep my eyes open) but there are all >> sorts of peculiarities >> specific to a submarines requirements >> like fan, spring, height >> to diameter ratio & a >> transparent container& it seems easier, as >> Emile says, to start with >> an acrylic >> >> tube.Alan >> >> Sent from my >> iPad >> On 11/12/2017, at 8:29 >> AM, >> Brian Cox via >> Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Hey >> >> All, How >> about these to make a >> scrubber out >> of: http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#cornydryhopper Brian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles >> mailing >> list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles >> mailing >> list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> -----Inline Attachment >> Follows----- >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 14 15:26:46 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 20:26:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber In-Reply-To: <4E8B167A-9260-4B4A-80AB-0639AA83666C@yahoo.com> References: <844346614.5158768.1513219709731.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <844346614.5158768.1513219709731@mail.yahoo.com> <202903AF-2AFD-43AF-A749-0DFAF245A116@yahoo.com> <4E8B167A-9260-4B4A-80AB-0639AA83666C@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1891769450.5640464.1513283206178@mail.yahoo.com> Pete,I tried to post a picture of the scrubber, but no luck. ?I will post on FacebookHank On Wednesday, December 13, 2017, 8:37:49 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Below is an extract on storage from a ?sodasorb pdf that answers my?question. Talking about anaesthesia machines It says it should be changed if itis left in the machine for more than 48hrs. Dehydration seems their biggestconcern.? Storage in Warehouse ? Store Sodasorb absorbent in a clean, dry environment. Avoid contact with other chemicals, acid, or water. Sealed packages of Sodasorb absorbent are well protected against loss of moisture and have a shelf life oftwo years from the date of manufacture. An expiration date is marked on all packages. Once opened, packages arevulnerable to moisture loss, unless they are promptly and carefully resealed. The moisture in Sodasorb, as well as other absorbents, will expand when frozen and result in some granulefragmentation and excessive dust. Packages which have been subjected to repeated freeze/thaw cycles should beexamined closely for dust and discarded if questionable. Indicator Sodasorb should not be stored under intense light, especially ultra-violet light, since this maydegrade the ethyl violate indicator dye in Sodasorb absorbent. Storage within the Anesthesia Machine ? Carbon monoxide (CO) has been found to build up in unusedanesthesia units. If Sodasorb absorbent is left in the machine, the absorber unit should be sealed and airtight. ChangeSodasorb absorbent which has been in an idle absorber unit for more than 48 hours. Flush the anesthesia system with oxygen prior to use. Avoid storage under intense lights. Indicator Sodasorb absorbent containing ethyl violet indicator is lightsensitive and may be subject to photodeactivation. It has been demonstrated that prolonged exposure of thegranules to high intensity lights will hasten the failure of the ethyl violet indicator in Sodasorb absorbent. We recommend discarding any absorbent tinged with color. To avoid any under capacity for absorption,use only fresh Sodasorb absorbent for each charge.? Sent from my iPad On 14/12/2017, at 4:16 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: How quickly does it deplete if it is just left as is with the hatch closed? Alan Sent from my iPad On 14/12/2017, at 3:48 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: It could be done easily just a twist on some studs counter to the fan rotation. Have an extra fan or 2 for backup quick connect electrical. Turn the absorbent canister into a cartridge and wrap for easy storage and deployment. ??? -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 12/13/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber To: "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" Date: Wednesday, December 13, 2017, 7:51 PM ???????????Hi Pete,I can do, I will try to remember tomorrow. ?I like that idea to just replace the canister onto a fan assembly. ?In fact I love that idea, it would have to be designed to replace quickly. Hank ???????????????????????On Wednesday, December 13, 2017, 6:16:16 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ???????????????????You would want enough on hand to give you 72 hours per person. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 00:43:47 +0000 (UTC) Hank, Pleases post some pictures. My thought is multiple small scrubbers sealed in cling wrap is the to go. When one is spent unwrap another attach the fan and rock n roll. One could make a router template to make the flat parts for a design like Alec's and easily churn a couple of scrubbers. -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/10/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber To: "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" Date: Sunday, December 10, 2017, 6:31 PM ????????????Brian,I made a scrubber last year that works a treat from 4 inch PVC pipe with a 2 inch hollow core made with you guessed it 2 inch PVC end caps. ?I bought some screen to cover the aluminum mesh and had to do a tiny bit of machining. ?I used a PVC threaded cap with foam under the cap to compress the absorbent. ?Not pretty, but works fantastic for under 20 dollars. ?Seems anything can be a scrubber!Hank ??????????????????????On Sunday, December 10, 2017, 3:57:36 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ??????Yes, that's the plan. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:54:08 +1300 So you are making a radial scrubber?Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/12/2017, at 11:25 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Correction: ??this is the one I have on order: http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Outdoor/Patio-Heaters-Parts-Accessories/Tall-Patio-Heater-Main-Burner-Screen Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 14:08:35 -0800 Yes but you want maximum surface area to be coming in from the perimeter of the canister , the outside should be all screen I should think. ?I also have this coming by post soon : https://www.amazon.com/Main-Burner-Emitter-Screen-10-25/dp/B00V3J1JPC/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1494280355&sr=8-22&keywords=patio+heater+replacement+parts ?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:00:40 +1300 Brian,I have looked at all sorts of filters to see if there is anything mass produced & cheap that might be easily adapted. Haven't found anythingyet that is worthwhile adapting. There may be something ( & I continue tokeep my eyes open) but there are all sorts of peculiarities specific to a submarines requirements like fan, spring, height to diameter ratio & a transparent container& it seems easier, as Emile says, to start with an acrylic tube.Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/12/2017, at 8:29 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey All, ???????????????????How about these to make a scrubber out of: http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#cornydryhopper ?Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ???????????_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 19 18:32:15 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 23:32:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] manipulator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1264166521.1854590.1513726336099@mail.yahoo.com> Here is a video of the gripper working on my electric arm,,, smooth.Hank ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: xxx xxxxx To: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017, 4:30:14 PM MSTSubject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUoNVwiH8S8 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2017-12-19 at 4.30 PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 21550 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 22 13:45:06 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 13:45:06 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] I can see an employment opportunity for some of guys we know: Message-ID: Germany?s Entire Submarine Fleet Is Out of Commission http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/a14480191/germanys-entire-submarine-fleet-is-out-of-commission/ Das boot ist kaputt: German navy has zero working subs https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/das-boot-ist-kaputt-german-navy-has-zero-working-subs/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 22 13:57:44 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 19:57:44 +0100 (CET) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] I can see an employment opportunity for some of guys we know: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1513969064973.4494028.f968428fa6bf7183c4eb61e84014fd1da89a5eac@spica.telekom.de> There is at least one U-Boot operational in Germany - smile.. vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] I can see an employment opportunity for some of guys we know: Datum: 2017-12-22T19:50:42+0100 Von: "Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles" An: "psubs list" Germany?s Entire Submarine Fleet Is Out of Commission http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/a14480191/germanys-entire-submarine-fleet-is-out-of-commission/ Das boot ist kaputt: German navy has zero working subs https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/das-boot-ist-kaputt-german-navy-has-zero-working-subs/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 22 18:57:46 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 23:57:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum References: <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,I have an idea that requires glueing aluminum plates together. ?Has anyone tried this? ?any success?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 22 19:29:03 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 19:29:03 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum In-Reply-To: <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Lotus Cars famously have done that, introducing bonded aluminum chassis with the Elise and continuing it on subsequent models. The reason is that welding weakens the material, so if it were welded they would need to increase the amount of material and it would eat up the weight savings. Problem is, I don't know the specifics of the glue they use nor the process. Best, Alec On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 6:57 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, > I have an idea that requires glueing aluminum plates together. Has anyone > tried this? any success? > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 22 19:35:30 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 00:35:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum In-Reply-To: References: <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1563261552.3520985.1513989330407@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,My research so far shows that aerospace parts are glued also. ?I am sure the Lotus folks are pretty closed lipped about how they do it. ?I will do some testing, just checking with the group to save some time and headache.What are you using for a ballast an now? ?or is it a surprise.Hank On Friday, December 22, 2017, 5:29:20 PM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Lotus Cars famously have done that, introducing bonded aluminum chassis with the Elise and continuing it on subsequent models. The reason is that welding weakens the material, so if it were welded they would need to increase the amount of material and it would eat up the weight savings. Problem is, I don't know the specifics of the glue they use nor the process.? Best,Alec On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 6:57 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I have an idea that requires glueing aluminum plates together.? Has anyone tried this? ?any success?Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 22 20:00:16 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 14:00:16 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum In-Reply-To: <1563261552.3520985.1513989330407@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246@mail.yahoo.com> <1563261552.3520985.1513989330407@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7E97C311-C7F1-4ABD-A91E-48065C16B559@yahoo.com> Hank, they glue steel laminations together in electric motor stacks so I don't see why aluminium shouldn't glue together successfully. Depending of course how you are gluing it. If you are laminating sheets together they should be pretty strong. When I was searching for a pvc glue for sealing my penetrator wires I tested a number of glues people suggested, but the glue that was used commercially on pvc boats won hands down. Worth researching well. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 23/12/2017, at 1:35 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alec, > My research so far shows that aerospace parts are glued also. I am sure the Lotus folks are pretty closed lipped about how they do it. I will do some testing, just checking with the group to save some time and headache. > What are you using for a ballast an now? or is it a surprise. > Hank > > On Friday, December 22, 2017, 5:29:20 PM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Lotus Cars famously have done that, introducing bonded aluminum chassis with the Elise and continuing it on subsequent models. The reason is that welding weakens the material, so if it were welded they would need to increase the amount of material and it would eat up the weight savings. Problem is, I don't know the specifics of the glue they use nor the process. > > Best, > Alec > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 6:57 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All, > I have an idea that requires glueing aluminum plates together. Has anyone tried this? any success? > Hank > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 22 20:05:23 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 20:05:23 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum In-Reply-To: <1563261552.3520985.1513989330407@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246@mail.yahoo.com> <1563261552.3520985.1513989330407@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, on a new box trailer that I just purchased last year, the aluminum skin of the box's exterior is glued (epoxied) at the seams as opposed to riveted. The option costs a little more, but looks better than the riveted skin, IMO. Another advantage in the case of the trailer skin is that it doesn't require silicon sealing with epoxy welds as it would with rivets, so again, it looks better. There's a small 3M sticker on the trailer, if you want, I can take a look at it tomorrow. I remember when the guy was trying to sell me the option, he showed me two small I-beams glued together with the stuff and they seemed pretty strong to me (though I'm not a hydraulic ram either, so...). Glad to see you're on FB! ~ Doug S. On 12/22/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Alec,My research so far shows that aerospace parts are glued also. I am > sure the Lotus folks are pretty closed lipped about how they do it. I will > do some testing, just checking with the group to save some time and > headache.What are you using for a ballast an now? or is it a surprise.Hank > On Friday, December 22, 2017, 5:29:20 PM MST, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Lotus Cars famously have done that, introducing bonded aluminum chassis > with the Elise and continuing it on subsequent models. The reason is that > welding weakens the material, so if it were welded they would need to > increase the amount of material and it would eat up the weight savings. > Problem is, I don't know the specifics of the glue they use nor the > process. > Best,Alec > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 6:57 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Hi All,I have an idea that requires glueing aluminum plates together. Has > anyone tried this? any success?Hank > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 22 20:30:08 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 01:30:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum In-Reply-To: References: <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246@mail.yahoo.com> <1563261552.3520985.1513989330407@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2124253091.3533144.1513992608516@mail.yahoo.com> Doug,That is very good testimony! ?I did read a machinist blog on the subject and they suggested a 3M product. ?Starting to look like 3M Epoxy is the way to go.Hank On Friday, December 22, 2017, 6:05:40 PM MST, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, on a new box trailer that I just purchased last year, the aluminum skin of the box's exterior is glued (epoxied) at the seams as opposed to riveted. The option costs a little more, but looks better than the riveted skin, IMO. Another advantage in the case of the trailer skin is that it doesn't require silicon sealing with epoxy welds as it would with rivets, so again, it looks better. There's a small 3M sticker on the trailer, if you want, I can take a look at it tomorrow. I remember when the guy was trying to sell me the option, he showed me two small I-beams glued together with the stuff and they seemed pretty strong to me (though I'm not a hydraulic ram either, so...). Glad to see you're on FB! ~ Doug S. On 12/22/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >? Alec,My research so far shows that aerospace parts are glued also.? I am > sure the Lotus folks are pretty closed lipped about how they do it.? I will > do some testing, just checking with the group to save some time and > headache.What are you using for a ballast an now?? or is it a surprise.Hank >? ? On Friday, December 22, 2017, 5:29:20 PM MST, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >? Lotus Cars famously have done that, introducing bonded aluminum chassis > with the Elise and continuing it on subsequent models. The reason is that > welding weakens the material, so if it were welded they would need to > increase the amount of material and it would eat up the weight savings. > Problem is, I don't know the specifics of the glue they use nor the > process. > Best,Alec > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 6:57 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Hi All,I have an idea that requires glueing aluminum plates together.? Has > anyone tried this?? any success?Hank > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 22 20:35:39 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 01:35:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum In-Reply-To: <7E97C311-C7F1-4ABD-A91E-48065C16B559@yahoo.com> References: <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246@mail.yahoo.com> <1563261552.3520985.1513989330407@mail.yahoo.com> <7E97C311-C7F1-4ABD-A91E-48065C16B559@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <106310226.3526310.1513992939803@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I will research it and I like to test also. ?I actually just overhauled my LED light bar for Gamma and removed the original rubber seals and wire penetrator. ?I put it back together with a urethane windshield adhesive, that stuff is amazing and cheap. ?the light bar had an annoying little vegetable oil drip that landed on the dome and then while towing the drips would go down the side of the sub. ?Glue has come a long way.Hank On Friday, December 22, 2017, 6:00:41 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,they glue steel laminations together in electric motor stacks so?I don't see why aluminium shouldn't glue together successfully. ??Depending of course how you are gluing it. If you are laminatingsheets together they should be pretty strong.When I was searching for a pvc glue for sealing my penetrator wiresI tested a number of glues people suggested, but the glue that was?used commercially on pvc boats won hands down. Worth researchingwell.Alan Sent from my iPad On 23/12/2017, at 1:35 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,My research so far shows that aerospace parts are glued also. ?I am sure the Lotus folks are pretty closed lipped about how they do it. ?I will do some testing, just checking with the group to save some time and headache.What are you using for a ballast an now? ?or is it a surprise.Hank On Friday, December 22, 2017, 5:29:20 PM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Lotus Cars famously have done that, introducing bonded aluminum chassis with the Elise and continuing it on subsequent models. The reason is that welding weakens the material, so if it were welded they would need to increase the amount of material and it would eat up the weight savings. Problem is, I don't know the specifics of the glue they use nor the process.? Best,Alec On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 6:57 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I have an idea that requires glueing aluminum plates together.? Has anyone tried this? ?any success?Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 22 20:35:54 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 20:35:54 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum In-Reply-To: <1563261552.3520985.1513989330407@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246@mail.yahoo.com> <1563261552.3520985.1513989330407@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Did you mean to say "ballast tank?" Working on it! Just this evening I finished making a set of five "mushroom" valves - four for the boat and one spare. I've been testing them by installing them in the bottom of a bucket and using them to dump the water. Monday I'll take them to be anodized, and when I get them back will take photos and post something on the projects page. They're a Hugh Fulton design and I have to say I'm impressed, he did an absolutely amazing job. The root of Shackleton's problems was water blocking in the MBT vent lines, which turns out to be a hard problem to solve with the raft configuration MBTs because the lines have a lot of horizontal ground to cover. Since mushroom valves use no vent line, there can't be water blocking and I'm hoping they're the solution. Next up, I'm going to go into calculations and design mode and make new MBTs that leverage these valves. It'll be interesting diving with these, the sub should submerge in seconds. It's four valves that are three inches in diameter each. Best, Alec On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 7:35 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, > My research so far shows that aerospace parts are glued also. I am sure > the Lotus folks are pretty closed lipped about how they do it. I will do > some testing, just checking with the group to save some time and headache. > What are you using for a ballast an now? or is it a surprise. > Hank > > On Friday, December 22, 2017, 5:29:20 PM MST, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Lotus Cars famously have done that, introducing bonded aluminum chassis > with the Elise and continuing it on subsequent models. The reason is that > welding weakens the material, so if it were welded they would need to > increase the amount of material and it would eat up the weight savings. > Problem is, I don't know the specifics of the glue they use nor the > process. > > Best, > Alec > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 6:57 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi All, > I have an idea that requires glueing aluminum plates together. Has anyone > tried this? any success? > Hank > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 22 21:05:06 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 21:05:06 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gluing aluminum In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have a suspicion that the aluminum would need anodized before gluing. Anodizing helps paint to stick to aluminum, so I imagine it would help glue to stick. River J Dolfi Rdolfi7 at gmail.com On Dec 22, 2017 8:01 PM, "via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: 1. I can see an employment opportunity for some of guys we know: (Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles) 2. Re: I can see an employment opportunity for some of guys we know: (MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) 3. glueing aluminum (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) 4. Re: glueing aluminum (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) 5. Re: glueing aluminum (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) 6. Re: glueing aluminum (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 13:45:06 -0500 From: Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles To: psubs list Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] I can see an employment opportunity for some of guys we know: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Germany?s Entire Submarine Fleet Is Out of Commission http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/ a14480191/germanys-entire-submarine-fleet-is-out-of-commission/ Das boot ist kaputt: German navy has zero working subs https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/das-boot-ist- kaputt-german-navy-has-zero-working-subs/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 19:57:44 +0100 (CET) From: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] I can see an employment opportunity for some of guys we know: Message-ID: <1513969064973.4494028.f968428fa6bf7183c4eb61e84014fd 1da89a5eac at spica.telekom.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" There is at least one U-Boot operational in Germany - smile.. vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] I can see an employment opportunity for some of guys we know: Datum: 2017-12-22T19:50:42+0100 Von: "Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles" An: "psubs list" Germany?s Entire Submarine Fleet Is Out of Commission http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/ a14480191/germanys-entire-submarine-fleet-is-out-of-commission/ Das boot ist kaputt: German navy has zero working subs https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/das-boot-ist- kaputt-german-navy-has-zero-working-subs/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 23:57:46 +0000 (UTC) From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum Message-ID: <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi All,I have an idea that requires glueing aluminum plates together. ?Has anyone tried this? ?any success?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 19:29:03 -0500 From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Lotus Cars famously have done that, introducing bonded aluminum chassis with the Elise and continuing it on subsequent models. The reason is that welding weakens the material, so if it were welded they would need to increase the amount of material and it would eat up the weight savings. Problem is, I don't know the specifics of the glue they use nor the process. Best, Alec On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 6:57 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, > I have an idea that requires glueing aluminum plates together. Has anyone > tried this? any success? > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 00:35:30 +0000 (UTC) From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum Message-ID: <1563261552.3520985.1513989330407 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Alec,My research so far shows that aerospace parts are glued also. ?I am sure the Lotus folks are pretty closed lipped about how they do it. ?I will do some testing, just checking with the group to save some time and headache.What are you using for a ballast an now? ?or is it a surprise.Hank On Friday, December 22, 2017, 5:29:20 PM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Lotus Cars famously have done that, introducing bonded aluminum chassis with the Elise and continuing it on subsequent models. The reason is that welding weakens the material, so if it were welded they would need to increase the amount of material and it would eat up the weight savings. Problem is, I don't know the specifics of the glue they use nor the process.? Best,Alec On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 6:57 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi All,I have an idea that requires glueing aluminum plates together.? Has anyone tried this? ?any success?Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 14:00:16 +1300 From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum Message-ID: <7E97C311-C7F1-4ABD-A91E-48065C16B559 at yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hank, they glue steel laminations together in electric motor stacks so I don't see why aluminium shouldn't glue together successfully. Depending of course how you are gluing it. If you are laminating sheets together they should be pretty strong. When I was searching for a pvc glue for sealing my penetrator wires I tested a number of glues people suggested, but the glue that was used commercially on pvc boats won hands down. Worth researching well. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 23/12/2017, at 1:35 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alec, > My research so far shows that aerospace parts are glued also. I am sure the Lotus folks are pretty closed lipped about how they do it. I will do some testing, just checking with the group to save some time and headache. > What are you using for a ballast an now? or is it a surprise. > Hank > > On Friday, December 22, 2017, 5:29:20 PM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Lotus Cars famously have done that, introducing bonded aluminum chassis with the Elise and continuing it on subsequent models. The reason is that welding weakens the material, so if it were welded they would need to increase the amount of material and it would eat up the weight savings. Problem is, I don't know the specifics of the glue they use nor the process. > > Best, > Alec > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 6:57 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, > I have an idea that requires glueing aluminum plates together. Has anyone tried this? any success? > Hank > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 54, Issue 39 ***************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 22 21:27:02 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 02:27:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum In-Reply-To: References: <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246@mail.yahoo.com> <1563261552.3520985.1513989330407@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1856952116.3546896.1513996022494@mail.yahoo.com> Wow!!! that will go down like a rock, what drives them??Hank On Friday, December 22, 2017, 6:36:20 PM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Did you mean to say "ballast tank?" Working on it! Just this evening I finished making a set of five "mushroom" valves - four for the boat and one spare. I've been testing them by installing them in the bottom of a bucket and using them to dump the water. Monday I'll take them to be anodized, and when I get them back will take photos and post something on the projects page. They're a Hugh Fulton design and I have to say I'm impressed, he did an absolutely amazing job. The root of Shackleton's problems was water blocking in the MBT vent lines, which turns out to be a hard problem to solve with the raft configuration MBTs because the lines have a lot of horizontal ground to cover. Since mushroom valves use no vent line, there can't be water blocking and I'm hoping they're the solution. Next up, I'm going to go into calculations and design mode and make new MBTs that leverage these valves. It'll be interesting diving with these, the sub should submerge in seconds. It's four valves that are three inches in diameter each. Best,Alec On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 7:35 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,My research so far shows that aerospace parts are glued also.? I am sure the Lotus folks are pretty closed lipped about how they do it.? I will do some testing, just checking with the group to save some time and headache.What are you using for a ballast an now? ?or is it a surprise.Hank On Friday, December 22, 2017, 5:29:20 PM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Lotus Cars famously have done that, introducing bonded aluminum chassis with the Elise and continuing it on subsequent models. The reason is that welding weakens the material, so if it were welded they would need to increase the amount of material and it would eat up the weight savings. Problem is, I don't know the specifics of the glue they use nor the process.? Best,Alec On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 6:57 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I have an idea that requires glueing aluminum plates together.? Has anyone tried this? ?any success?Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 22 21:43:33 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 15:43:33 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum In-Reply-To: <1856952116.3546896.1513996022494@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246@mail.yahoo.com> <1563261552.3520985.1513989330407@mail.yahoo.com> <1856952116.3546896.1513996022494@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alec, I am interested in the photos when you take them. I have a valve design based on Vance's but operated with solenoids. However am open to alternatives. What sort of anodising? I had my lights marine anodised but will go to hard anodising next as they can scratch relatively easy. Could however be the anodiser, I am not experienced enough to know! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 23/12/2017, at 3:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Wow!!! that will go down like a rock, what drives them? > Hank > > On Friday, December 22, 2017, 6:36:20 PM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Did you mean to say "ballast tank?" Working on it! Just this evening I finished making a set of five "mushroom" valves - four for the boat and one spare. I've been testing them by installing them in the bottom of a bucket and using them to dump the water. Monday I'll take them to be anodized, and when I get them back will take photos and post something on the projects page. They're a Hugh Fulton design and I have to say I'm impressed, he did an absolutely amazing job. The root of Shackleton's problems was water blocking in the MBT vent lines, which turns out to be a hard problem to solve with the raft configuration MBTs because the lines have a lot of horizontal ground to cover. Since mushroom valves use no vent line, there can't be water blocking and I'm hoping they're the solution. Next up, I'm going to go into calculations and design mode and make new MBTs that leverage these valves. It'll be interesting diving with these, the sub should submerge in seconds. It's four valves that are three inches in diameter each. > > Best, > Alec > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 7:35 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Alec, > My research so far shows that aerospace parts are glued also. I am sure the Lotus folks are pretty closed lipped about how they do it. I will do some testing, just checking with the group to save some time and headache. > What are you using for a ballast an now? or is it a surprise. > Hank > > On Friday, December 22, 2017, 5:29:20 PM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Lotus Cars famously have done that, introducing bonded aluminum chassis with the Elise and continuing it on subsequent models. The reason is that welding weakens the material, so if it were welded they would need to increase the amount of material and it would eat up the weight savings. Problem is, I don't know the specifics of the glue they use nor the process. > > Best, > Alec > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 6:57 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All, > I have an idea that requires glueing aluminum plates together. Has anyone tried this? any success? > Hank > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 22 22:07:03 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 13:07:03 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum In-Reply-To: References: <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246@mail.yahoo.com> <1563261552.3520985.1513989330407@mail.yahoo.com> <1856952116.3546896.1513996022494@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Methyl methacrylate based adhesive is widely used in the marine industry and I have personally used it to bond fibreglass to aluminium, you need to prime the alloy prior to bonding. The most common brand name we have used is a product called plexus.... Pull apart tests we carried out distorted the alloy prior to failure. Mike On 23 Dec 2017 12:44 p.m., "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, > I am interested in the photos when you take them. > I have a valve design based on Vance's but operated with solenoids. > However am open to alternatives. > What sort of anodising? I had my lights marine anodised but will go to > hard anodising next as they can scratch relatively easy. Could however > be the anodiser, I am not experienced enough to know! > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 23/12/2017, at 3:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Wow!!! that will go down like a rock, what drives them? > Hank > > On Friday, December 22, 2017, 6:36:20 PM MST, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Did you mean to say "ballast tank?" Working on it! Just this evening I > finished making a set of five "mushroom" valves - four for the boat and one > spare. I've been testing them by installing them in the bottom of a bucket > and using them to dump the water. Monday I'll take them to be anodized, and > when I get them back will take photos and post something on the projects > page. They're a Hugh Fulton design and I have to say I'm impressed, he did > an absolutely amazing job. The root of Shackleton's problems was water > blocking in the MBT vent lines, which turns out to be a hard problem to > solve with the raft configuration MBTs because the lines have a lot of > horizontal ground to cover. Since mushroom valves use no vent line, there > can't be water blocking and I'm hoping they're the solution. Next up, I'm > going to go into calculations and design mode and make new MBTs that > leverage these valves. It'll be interesting diving with these, the sub > should submerge in seconds. It's four valves that are three inches in > diameter each. > > Best, > Alec > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 7:35 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alec, > My research so far shows that aerospace parts are glued also. I am sure > the Lotus folks are pretty closed lipped about how they do it. I will do > some testing, just checking with the group to save some time and headache. > What are you using for a ballast an now? or is it a surprise. > Hank > > On Friday, December 22, 2017, 5:29:20 PM MST, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Lotus Cars famously have done that, introducing bonded aluminum chassis > with the Elise and continuing it on subsequent models. The reason is that > welding weakens the material, so if it were welded they would need to > increase the amount of material and it would eat up the weight savings. > Problem is, I don't know the specifics of the glue they use nor the > process. > > Best, > Alec > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 6:57 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Hi All, > I have an idea that requires glueing aluminum plates together. Has anyone > tried this? any success? > Hank > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 22 22:23:06 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 11:23:06 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum In-Reply-To: <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6f94e4a5-8160-442e-83ae-de8654d5086e@archivale.com> Yes. Use epoxy, and prepare the mating surfaces carefully. Rough them with ultrafine sandpaper, then completely degrease them. Marc de Piolenc On 12/23/2017 7:57 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All, > I have an idea that requires glueing aluminum plates together. ?Has > anyone tried this? ?any success? > Hank > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 22 22:50:47 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 22:50:47 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum In-Reply-To: <1856952116.3546896.1513996022494@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246@mail.yahoo.com> <1563261552.3520985.1513989330407@mail.yahoo.com> <1856952116.3546896.1513996022494@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Compressed air at 140psi, from a 1st stage. They are normally closed. Give them a shot of air and they open. Cut off the air and they are closed by a spring. On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 9:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Wow!!! that will go down like a rock, what drives them? > Hank > > On Friday, December 22, 2017, 6:36:20 PM MST, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Did you mean to say "ballast tank?" Working on it! Just this evening I > finished making a set of five "mushroom" valves - four for the boat and one > spare. I've been testing them by installing them in the bottom of a bucket > and using them to dump the water. Monday I'll take them to be anodized, and > when I get them back will take photos and post something on the projects > page. They're a Hugh Fulton design and I have to say I'm impressed, he did > an absolutely amazing job. The root of Shackleton's problems was water > blocking in the MBT vent lines, which turns out to be a hard problem to > solve with the raft configuration MBTs because the lines have a lot of > horizontal ground to cover. Since mushroom valves use no vent line, there > can't be water blocking and I'm hoping they're the solution. Next up, I'm > going to go into calculations and design mode and make new MBTs that > leverage these valves. It'll be interesting diving with these, the sub > should submerge in seconds. It's four valves that are three inches in > diameter each. > > Best, > Alec > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 7:35 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alec, > My research so far shows that aerospace parts are glued also. I am sure > the Lotus folks are pretty closed lipped about how they do it. I will do > some testing, just checking with the group to save some time and headache. > What are you using for a ballast an now? or is it a surprise. > Hank > > On Friday, December 22, 2017, 5:29:20 PM MST, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Lotus Cars famously have done that, introducing bonded aluminum chassis > with the Elise and continuing it on subsequent models. The reason is that > welding weakens the material, so if it were welded they would need to > increase the amount of material and it would eat up the weight savings. > Problem is, I don't know the specifics of the glue they use nor the > process. > > Best, > Alec > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 6:57 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Hi All, > I have an idea that requires glueing aluminum plates together. Has anyone > tried this? any success? > Hank > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 22 22:58:31 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 22:58:31 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum In-Reply-To: References: <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246@mail.yahoo.com> <1563261552.3520985.1513989330407@mail.yahoo.com> <1856952116.3546896.1513996022494@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, So far I've been anodizing almost everything in what the anodizer calls "natural" finish. Sorry, I can't recall what it is in more technical terms but it was their recommendation for salt water and I figure someone who anodizes all day long knows more about it than I do. When they first described it to me it sounded aesthetically iffy, because they called it a slightly greenish gray. However, I actually really like it. It doesn't look like anodized aluminum to me, it looks like some sort of unknown metal. Cheap titanium maybe! But again, I didn't pick it for the looks. Photos coming in maybe a week or two... Best, Alec On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 9:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, > I am interested in the photos when you take them. > I have a valve design based on Vance's but operated with solenoids. > However am open to alternatives. > What sort of anodising? I had my lights marine anodised but will go to > hard anodising next as they can scratch relatively easy. Could however > be the anodiser, I am not experienced enough to know! > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 23/12/2017, at 3:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Wow!!! that will go down like a rock, what drives them? > Hank > > On Friday, December 22, 2017, 6:36:20 PM MST, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Did you mean to say "ballast tank?" Working on it! Just this evening I > finished making a set of five "mushroom" valves - four for the boat and one > spare. I've been testing them by installing them in the bottom of a bucket > and using them to dump the water. Monday I'll take them to be anodized, and > when I get them back will take photos and post something on the projects > page. They're a Hugh Fulton design and I have to say I'm impressed, he did > an absolutely amazing job. The root of Shackleton's problems was water > blocking in the MBT vent lines, which turns out to be a hard problem to > solve with the raft configuration MBTs because the lines have a lot of > horizontal ground to cover. Since mushroom valves use no vent line, there > can't be water blocking and I'm hoping they're the solution. Next up, I'm > going to go into calculations and design mode and make new MBTs that > leverage these valves. It'll be interesting diving with these, the sub > should submerge in seconds. It's four valves that are three inches in > diameter each. > > Best, > Alec > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 7:35 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alec, > My research so far shows that aerospace parts are glued also. I am sure > the Lotus folks are pretty closed lipped about how they do it. I will do > some testing, just checking with the group to save some time and headache. > What are you using for a ballast an now? or is it a surprise. > Hank > > On Friday, December 22, 2017, 5:29:20 PM MST, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Lotus Cars famously have done that, introducing bonded aluminum chassis > with the Elise and continuing it on subsequent models. The reason is that > welding weakens the material, so if it were welded they would need to > increase the amount of material and it would eat up the weight savings. > Problem is, I don't know the specifics of the glue they use nor the > process. > > Best, > Alec > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 6:57 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Hi All, > I have an idea that requires glueing aluminum plates together. Has anyone > tried this? any success? > Hank > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 22 23:14:52 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 23:14:52 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum In-Reply-To: References: <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246@mail.yahoo.com> <1563261552.3520985.1513989330407@mail.yahoo.com> <1856952116.3546896.1513996022494@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I took a flashlight out to the trailer tonight, knowing that I'd forget tomorrow! The little placard reads, 'panels attached with 3M VHB bonding systems.' It's a Carmate brand trailer, btw. Good luck on the gluing Hank. ~ Doug S. On 12/22/17, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Alan, > > So far I've been anodizing almost everything in what the anodizer calls > "natural" finish. Sorry, I can't recall what it is in more technical terms > but it was their recommendation for salt water and I figure someone who > anodizes all day long knows more about it than I do. When they first > described it to me it sounded aesthetically iffy, because they called it a > slightly greenish gray. However, I actually really like it. It doesn't look > like anodized aluminum to me, it looks like some sort of unknown metal. > Cheap titanium maybe! But again, I didn't pick it for the looks. > > Photos coming in maybe a week or two... > > > Best, > Alec > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 9:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Alec, >> I am interested in the photos when you take them. >> I have a valve design based on Vance's but operated with solenoids. >> However am open to alternatives. >> What sort of anodising? I had my lights marine anodised but will go to >> hard anodising next as they can scratch relatively easy. Could however >> be the anodiser, I am not experienced enough to know! >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 23/12/2017, at 3:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Wow!!! that will go down like a rock, what drives them? >> Hank >> >> On Friday, December 22, 2017, 6:36:20 PM MST, Alec Smyth via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Did you mean to say "ballast tank?" Working on it! Just this evening I >> finished making a set of five "mushroom" valves - four for the boat and >> one >> spare. I've been testing them by installing them in the bottom of a >> bucket >> and using them to dump the water. Monday I'll take them to be anodized, >> and >> when I get them back will take photos and post something on the projects >> page. They're a Hugh Fulton design and I have to say I'm impressed, he >> did >> an absolutely amazing job. The root of Shackleton's problems was water >> blocking in the MBT vent lines, which turns out to be a hard problem to >> solve with the raft configuration MBTs because the lines have a lot of >> horizontal ground to cover. Since mushroom valves use no vent line, there >> can't be water blocking and I'm hoping they're the solution. Next up, I'm >> going to go into calculations and design mode and make new MBTs that >> leverage these valves. It'll be interesting diving with these, the sub >> should submerge in seconds. It's four valves that are three inches in >> diameter each. >> >> Best, >> Alec >> >> On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 7:35 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Alec, >> My research so far shows that aerospace parts are glued also. I am sure >> the Lotus folks are pretty closed lipped about how they do it. I will do >> some testing, just checking with the group to save some time and >> headache. >> What are you using for a ballast an now? or is it a surprise. >> Hank >> >> On Friday, December 22, 2017, 5:29:20 PM MST, Alec Smyth via >> Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: >> >> >> Lotus Cars famously have done that, introducing bonded aluminum chassis >> with the Elise and continuing it on subsequent models. The reason is that >> welding weakens the material, so if it were welded they would need to >> increase the amount of material and it would eat up the weight savings. >> Problem is, I don't know the specifics of the glue they use nor the >> process. >> >> Best, >> Alec >> >> On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 6:57 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> > org > wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> I have an idea that requires glueing aluminum plates together. Has >> anyone >> tried this? any success? >> Hank >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 22 23:27:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 17:27:49 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum In-Reply-To: References: <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246@mail.yahoo.com> <1563261552.3520985.1513989330407@mail.yahoo.com> <1856952116.3546896.1513996022494@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Alec, yes sounds the same as mine. I did notice some scratches that I put in the housings on assembly etc & thought I could possibly get oxidation there. Will look into it a bit more before my next lot of anodising. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 23/12/2017, at 4:58 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > So far I've been anodizing almost everything in what the anodizer calls "natural" finish. Sorry, I can't recall what it is in more technical terms but it was their recommendation for salt water and I figure someone who anodizes all day long knows more about it than I do. When they first described it to me it sounded aesthetically iffy, because they called it a slightly greenish gray. However, I actually really like it. It doesn't look like anodized aluminum to me, it looks like some sort of unknown metal. Cheap titanium maybe! But again, I didn't pick it for the looks. > > Photos coming in maybe a week or two... > > > Best, > Alec > >> On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 9:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alec, >> I am interested in the photos when you take them. >> I have a valve design based on Vance's but operated with solenoids. >> However am open to alternatives. >> What sort of anodising? I had my lights marine anodised but will go to >> hard anodising next as they can scratch relatively easy. Could however >> be the anodiser, I am not experienced enough to know! >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 23/12/2017, at 3:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Wow!!! that will go down like a rock, what drives them? >>> Hank >>> >>> On Friday, December 22, 2017, 6:36:20 PM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Did you mean to say "ballast tank?" Working on it! Just this evening I finished making a set of five "mushroom" valves - four for the boat and one spare. I've been testing them by installing them in the bottom of a bucket and using them to dump the water. Monday I'll take them to be anodized, and when I get them back will take photos and post something on the projects page. They're a Hugh Fulton design and I have to say I'm impressed, he did an absolutely amazing job. The root of Shackleton's problems was water blocking in the MBT vent lines, which turns out to be a hard problem to solve with the raft configuration MBTs because the lines have a lot of horizontal ground to cover. Since mushroom valves use no vent line, there can't be water blocking and I'm hoping they're the solution. Next up, I'm going to go into calculations and design mode and make new MBTs that leverage these valves. It'll be interesting diving with these, the sub should submerge in seconds. It's four valves that are three inches in diameter each. >>> >>> Best, >>> Alec >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 7:35 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Alec, >>> My research so far shows that aerospace parts are glued also. I am sure the Lotus folks are pretty closed lipped about how they do it. I will do some testing, just checking with the group to save some time and headache. >>> What are you using for a ballast an now? or is it a surprise. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Friday, December 22, 2017, 5:29:20 PM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Lotus Cars famously have done that, introducing bonded aluminum chassis with the Elise and continuing it on subsequent models. The reason is that welding weakens the material, so if it were welded they would need to increase the amount of material and it would eat up the weight savings. Problem is, I don't know the specifics of the glue they use nor the process. >>> >>> Best, >>> Alec >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 6:57 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Hi All, >>> I have an idea that requires glueing aluminum plates together. Has anyone tried this? any success? >>> Hank >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 23 08:05:04 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 13:05:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum In-Reply-To: References: <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246@mail.yahoo.com> <1563261552.3520985.1513989330407@mail.yahoo.com> <1856952116.3546896.1513996022494@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1296667791.3645991.1514034304830@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks for the help guys!Hank On Friday, December 22, 2017, 9:15:10 PM MST, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I took a flashlight out to the trailer tonight, knowing that I'd forget tomorrow! The little placard reads, 'panels attached with 3M VHB bonding systems.' It's a Carmate brand trailer, btw. Good luck on the gluing Hank. ~ Doug S. On 12/22/17, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Alan, > > So far I've been anodizing almost everything in what the anodizer calls > "natural" finish. Sorry, I can't recall what it is in more technical terms > but it was their recommendation for salt water and I figure someone who > anodizes all day long knows more about it than I do. When they first > described it to me it sounded aesthetically iffy, because they called it a > slightly greenish gray. However, I actually really like it. It doesn't look > like anodized aluminum to me, it looks like some sort of unknown metal. > Cheap titanium maybe! But again, I didn't pick it for the looks. > > Photos coming in maybe a week or two... > > > Best, > Alec > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 9:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Alec, >> I am interested in the photos when you take them. >> I have a valve design based on Vance's but operated with solenoids. >> However am open to alternatives. >> What sort of anodising? I had my lights marine anodised but will go to >> hard anodising next as they can scratch relatively easy. Could however >> be the anodiser, I am not experienced enough to know! >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 23/12/2017, at 3:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Wow!!! that will go down like a rock, what drives them? >> Hank >> >> On Friday, December 22, 2017, 6:36:20 PM MST, Alec Smyth via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Did you mean to say "ballast tank?" Working on it! Just this evening I >> finished making a set of five "mushroom" valves - four for the boat and >> one >> spare. I've been testing them by installing them in the bottom of a >> bucket >> and using them to dump the water. Monday I'll take them to be anodized, >> and >> when I get them back will take photos and post something on the projects >> page. They're a Hugh Fulton design and I have to say I'm impressed, he >> did >> an absolutely amazing job. The root of Shackleton's problems was water >> blocking in the MBT vent lines, which turns out to be a hard problem to >> solve with the raft configuration MBTs because the lines have a lot of >> horizontal ground to cover. Since mushroom valves use no vent line, there >> can't be water blocking and I'm hoping they're the solution. Next up, I'm >> going to go into calculations and design mode and make new MBTs that >> leverage these valves. It'll be interesting diving with these, the sub >> should submerge in seconds. It's four valves that are three inches in >> diameter each. >> >> Best, >> Alec >> >> On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 7:35 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Alec, >> My research so far shows that aerospace parts are glued also.? I am sure >> the Lotus folks are pretty closed lipped about how they do it.? I will do >> some testing, just checking with the group to save some time and >> headache. >> What are you using for a ballast an now?? or is it a surprise. >> Hank >> >> On Friday, December 22, 2017, 5:29:20 PM MST, Alec Smyth via >> Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: >> >> >> Lotus Cars famously have done that, introducing bonded aluminum chassis >> with the Elise and continuing it on subsequent models. The reason is that >> welding weakens the material, so if it were welded they would need to >> increase the amount of material and it would eat up the weight savings. >> Problem is, I don't know the specifics of the glue they use nor the >> process. >> >> Best, >> Alec >> >> On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 6:57 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> > org > wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> I have an idea that requires glueing aluminum plates together.? Has >> anyone >> tried this?? any success? >> Hank >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 23 08:12:10 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 13:12:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ballast tanks References: <567115919.3659386.1514034730274.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <567115919.3659386.1514034730274@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,?I don't know what your planning for tanks, but, I found some aluminum tanks in Kelowna BC that are 16 inch by 16 inch ?by 9 feet with tapered ends. ?They are three chambers also. ?The guy wants 200 each, I am not taking them. ?They would be ideal but the shipping might be a bugger. ?The guy selling them has become an asset to me, he has set up a surface crew with boats to dive on the paddle steamer.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 23 08:21:01 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 08:21:01 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ballast tanks In-Reply-To: <567115919.3659386.1514034730274@mail.yahoo.com> References: <567115919.3659386.1514034730274.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <567115919.3659386.1514034730274@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm thinking of building my own, but that does sound interesting. You don't have a photo by any chance? If not, don't go on a drive for it please. Thanks! On Sat, Dec 23, 2017 at 8:12 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, > I don't know what your planning for tanks, but, I found some aluminum > tanks in Kelowna BC that are 16 inch by 16 inch by 9 feet with tapered > ends. They are three chambers also. The guy wants 200 each, I am not > taking them. They would be ideal but the shipping might be a bugger. The > guy selling them has become an asset to me, he has set up a surface crew > with boats to dive on the paddle steamer. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 23 08:48:51 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 14:48:51 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum In-Reply-To: <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <02dc01d37bf4$c45e7e00$4d1b7a00$@nl> Hank, Needs a primer or chromatizing. Same for painting Alu. Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zaterdag 23 december 2017 0:58 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum Hi All, I have an idea that requires glueing aluminum plates together. Has anyone tried this? any success? Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 23 11:20:41 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 17:20:41 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum In-Reply-To: <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1768166860.3505983.1513987066246@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I think you will need the 97463 loctite aluminum putty, is an epoxy with aluminum dust, i use to fix the recoil starter mounting base on a kohler 8 hp as was hard to reach for welding, my ideawas for a temporal repair, but hold very well is like the marine tex for aluminum LOCTITE FIXMASTER ALUMINUM PUTTY 93463, find the specs and try, just have to remove the oxide from the Al with an ss wire brush, hope this help 2017-12-23 0:57 GMT+01:00 hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > Hi All, > I have an idea that requires glueing aluminum plates together. Has anyone > tried this? any success? > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 23 12:00:51 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 09:00:51 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum Message-ID: <20171223090051.2D186B3C@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 23 12:03:45 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 09:03:45 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum Message-ID: <20171223090345.2D186B2F@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 23 12:04:13 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 17:04:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum In-Reply-To: <20171223090051.2D186B3C@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20171223090051.2D186B3C@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <802585785.3717185.1514048653569@mail.yahoo.com> Brian, ? TOP secret plan, if I tell you, ?well you know the rest ;-)Hank On Saturday, December 23, 2017, 10:01:11 AM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,????????? What is the application for the gluing?? Can't you just make the aluminum thicker??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 13:05:04 +0000 (UTC) Thanks for the help guys!Hank On Friday, December 22, 2017, 9:15:10 PM MST, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I took a flashlight out to the trailer tonight, knowing that I'd forget tomorrow! The little placard reads, 'panels attached with 3M VHB bonding systems.' It's a Carmate brand trailer, btw. Good luck on the gluing Hank. ~ Doug S. On 12/22/17, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Alan, > > So far I've been anodizing almost everything in what the anodizer calls > "natural" finish. Sorry, I can't recall what it is in more technical terms > but it was their recommendation for salt water and I figure someone who > anodizes all day long knows more about it than I do. When they first > described it to me it sounded aesthetically iffy, because they called it a > slightly greenish gray. However, I actually really like it. It doesn't look > like anodized aluminum to me, it looks like some sort of unknown metal. > Cheap titanium maybe! But again, I didn't pick it for the looks. > > Photos coming in maybe a week or two... > > > Best, > Alec > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 9:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Alec, >> I am interested in the photos when you take them. >> I have a valve design based on Vance's but operated with solenoids. >> However am open to alternatives. >> What sort of anodising? I had my lights marine anodised but will go to >> hard anodising next as they can scratch relatively easy. Could however >> be the anodiser, I am not experienced enough to know! >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 23/12/2017, at 3:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Wow!!! that will go down like a rock, what drives them? >> Hank >> >> On Friday, December 22, 2017, 6:36:20 PM MST, Alec Smyth via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Did you mean to say "ballast tank?" Working on it! Just this evening I >> finished making a set of five "mushroom" valves - four for the boat and >> one >> spare. I've been testing them by installing them in the bottom of a >> bucket >> and using them to dump the water. Monday I'll take them to be anodized, >> and >> when I get them back will take photos and post something on the projects >> page. They're a Hugh Fulton design and I have to say I'm impressed, he >> did >> an absolutely amazing job. The root of Shackleton's problems was water >> blocking in the MBT vent lines, which turns out to be a hard problem to >> solve with the raft configuration MBTs because the lines have a lot of >> horizontal ground to cover. Since mushroom valves use no vent line, there >> can't be water blocking and I'm hoping they're the solution. Next up, I'm >> going to go into calculations and design mode and make new MBTs that >> leverage these valves. It'll be interesting diving with these, the sub >> should submerge in seconds. It's four valves that are three inches in >> diameter each. >> >> Best, >> Alec >> >> On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 7:35 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Alec, >> My research so far shows that aerospace parts are glued also.? I am sure >> the Lotus folks are pretty closed lipped about how they do it.? I will do >> some testing, just checking with the group to save some time and >> headache. >> What are you using for a ballast an now?? or is it a surprise. >> Hank >> >> On Friday, December 22, 2017, 5:29:20 PM MST, Alec Smyth via >> Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: >> >> >> Lotus Cars famously have done that, introducing bonded aluminum chassis >> with the Elise and continuing it on subsequent models. The reason is that >> welding weakens the material, so if it were welded they would need to >> increase the amount of material and it would eat up the weight savings. >> Problem is, I don't know the specifics of the glue they use nor the >> process. >> >> Best, >> Alec >> >> On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 6:57 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> > org > wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> I have an idea that requires glueing aluminum plates together.? Has >> anyone >> tried this?? any success? >> Hank >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 23 12:10:46 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 17:10:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum In-Reply-To: <20171223090345.2D186B2F@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20171223090345.2D186B2F@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <499132683.3729407.1514049046866@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,I fixed a cracked head in my Porsche 911 with JB Weld and it was fine, not sure I would try a piston though. ?That was gutsy!Hank On Saturday, December 23, 2017, 10:03:58 AM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have a friend who repaired a motorcycle aluminum piston with JB weld , and it ran !?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] glueing aluminum Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 17:20:41 +0100 I think you will need the 97463 loctite aluminum putty, is an epoxy with aluminum dust, i use to fix the recoil starter mounting base on a kohler 8 hp as was hard to reach for welding, my ideawas for a temporal repair, but hold very well is? like the marine tex for aluminum LOCTITE FIXMASTER ALUMINUM PUTTY 93463, find the specs and try, just have to remove the oxide from the Al with an ss wire brush, hope this help 2017-12-23 0:57 GMT+01:00 hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles : Hi All,I have an idea that requires glueing aluminum plates together.? Has anyone tried this? ?any success?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 24 08:21:38 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2017 14:21:38 +0100 (CET) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Another garage sub. In-Reply-To: <1500493718361.5518087.7dc53dd429f05b2c865f9b6711d247d0dfd8464b@spica.telekom.de> References: <201707122012.v6CKC1M4026074@whoweb.com> <876015577.121433.1500006786379@mail.yahoo.com> <299247195.387792.1500046221350@mail.yahoo.com> <25F4C0A8-9171-4258-A69C-E42F277D28F3@yahoo.com> <79A79BBF90D64C55A6B659458F5D4398@PhillPC> <875693f9-8fc9-112c-d89d-8a67e7faa61d@psubs.org> <8FFC7CC9-2D66-443F-8DE6-3A4F51E480F2@yahoo.com> <2297d5d4-748f-0919-1bc9-b6c72f5a048f@psubs.org> <2BF2A15C-C91D-45BC-8C7F-75C8288FA735@yahoo.com> <0c1001d2ff67$bf4cc700$3de65500$@gmail.com> <1500493718361.5518087.7dc53dd429f05b2c865f9b6711d247d0dfd8464b@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <1514121698167.4763511.e6ab07bd998c496ab580a8ce4e8e2f23a4da2d32@spica.telekom.de> https://www.expressen.se/kvallsposten/birger-har-en-ubat-hemma-i-garaget/ The only info I found. vbr Carsten ? From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 24 11:48:34 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2017 16:48:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] machining References: <328776270.4001241.1514134114887.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <328776270.4001241.1514134114887@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,Looking for an old timer trick to soften a shaft without warping it. ?I am on my second try and it is good but not perfect. ?I had to soften the ends of a 20mm shaft so I could drill one end and make a keyway on the other end. ?I heated the ends slowly until they just turned orange and let sit to cool. ?I did one end at a time. ?Any tricks to this?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 24 12:25:06 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 06:25:06 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Another garage sub. In-Reply-To: <1514121698167.4763511.e6ab07bd998c496ab580a8ce4e8e2f23a4da2d32@spica.telekom.de> References: <201707122012.v6CKC1M4026074@whoweb.com> <876015577.121433.1500006786379@mail.yahoo.com> <299247195.387792.1500046221350@mail.yahoo.com> <25F4C0A8-9171-4258-A69C-E42F277D28F3@yahoo.com> <79A79BBF90D64C55A6B659458F5D4398@PhillPC> <875693f9-8fc9-112c-d89d-8a67e7faa61d@psubs.org> <8FFC7CC9-2D66-443F-8DE6-3A4F51E480F2@yahoo.com> <2297d5d4-748f-0919-1bc9-b6c72f5a048f@psubs.org> <2BF2A15C-C91D-45BC-8C7F-75C8288FA735@yahoo.com> <0c1001d2ff67$bf4cc700$3de65500$@gmail.com> <1500493718361.5518087.7dc53dd429f05b2c865f9b6711d247d0dfd8464b@spica.telekom.de> <1514121698167.4763511.e6ab07bd998c496ab580a8ce4e8e2f23a4da2d32@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <5C04CB67-B239-4887-8F02-33E39207ECAD@yahoo.com> Found this Carsten, https://siriholmberg.weebly.com/about-siri--holmberg.html Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/12/2017, at 2:21 AM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > https://www.expressen.se/kvallsposten/birger-har-en-ubat-hemma-i-garaget/ > > The only info I found. vbr Carsten > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 24 14:14:03 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2017 14:14:03 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] machining Message-ID: A full anneal with the part sufficiently supported to prevent any sag under its own weight. The part (steel alloy, I assume?) must be heated above its recrystallization temperature, held to soak through at that temperature, and then cooled very slowly. You can build a quick and dirty oven out of brick, using a gas burner? I do in situ heat treatments on large parts using electric heater consoles (resistive or induction), but these can be expensive to rent. Your one end at a time trick might work. You just have to slow the cooling down even more by throttling the fuel or gradually moving the burner away over the course of hours - not minutes. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Dec 24, 2017, 08:48, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All, > Looking for an old timer trick to soften a shaft without warping it. I am on my second try and it is good but not perfect. I had to soften the ends of a 20mm shaft so I could drill one end and make a keyway on the other end. I heated the ends slowly until they just turned orange and let sit to cool. I did one end at a time. > Any tricks to this? > Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 24 17:59:54 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2017 22:59:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] machining In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1699306218.4070955.1514156394901@mail.yahoo.com> Sean,Thanks' ?I am starting to wonder if the shaft might have been bent to start with. ?I did not throttle down the heat, but good idea and I will do that next time.Hank On Sunday, December 24, 2017, 12:14:31 PM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: A full anneal with the part sufficiently supported to prevent any sag under its own weight. The part (steel alloy, I assume?) must be heated above its recrystallization temperature, held to soak through at that temperature, and then cooled very slowly. You can build a quick and dirty oven out of brick, using a gas burner? I do in situ heat treatments on large parts using electric heater consoles (resistive or induction), but these can be expensive to rent. Your one end at a time trick might work. You just have to slow the cooling down even more by throttling the fuel or gradually moving the burner away over the course of hours - not minutes. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Dec 24, 2017, 08:48, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi All,Looking for an old timer trick to soften a shaft without warping it. ?I am on my second try and it is good but not perfect. ?I had to soften the ends of a 20mm shaft so I could drill one end and make a keyway on the other end. ?I heated the ends slowly until they just turned orange and let sit to cool. ?I did one end at a time. ?Any tricks to this?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 24 23:28:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2017 20:28:50 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete testing Message-ID: <20171224202850.2D18730D@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 25 00:56:15 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2017 21:56:15 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete testing Message-ID: <1136967115.192578.1514181375431@wamui-dingo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 25 09:23:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 14:23:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Another garage sub. References: <1620192325.3574287.1514211836089.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1620192325.3574287.1514211836089@mail.yahoo.com> http://www.psubs.org/mlist/archive/1010/msg00115.html -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/24/17, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Another garage sub. To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Sunday, December 24, 2017, 11:25 AM Found this Carsten,https://siriholmberg.weebly.com/about-siri--holmberg.htmlAlan Sent from my iPad On 25/12/2017, at 2:21 AM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: https://www.expressen.se/kvallsposten/birger-har-en-ubat-hemma-i-garaget/ The only info I found. vbr Carsten ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 25 12:50:33 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 12:50:33 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions Message-ID: <005b01d37da8$df8e0280$9eaa0780$@indy.rr.com> All, I am purchasing the system components for my K-250's O2 system. I am not a SCUBA diver so I lack some experience with regulators. I am considering sealed/balanced options for the first stage regulator (it will create an intermediate pressure downstream of the O2 tank (located external of the hull). These get pricey and I don't really want to overspend for options I do not need (sealed vs. not, balanced vs. unbalanced, O2 ready vs. needing cleaned). A couple of questions: 1. They sell regulators that are already suitable for 100% O2 use. How difficult to clean one that is not O2 ready? 2. The pediatric flow regulator (located in the hull) can directly handle the O2 tank pressure so I am wondering why we use the first stage regulators at all. a. I assume to remove as many HP leak sources from within the hull especially since it is 100% O2 (safety). Thoughts/recommendations? Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 25 13:16:34 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 10:16:34 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Another garage sub. Message-ID: <1332832974.195849.1514225794808@wamui-dingo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> The Mendo Machine Shop still seems to be in business, and not too far from me (150miles). Perhaps I can visit them. My understanding what the sub got shipped off to Europe after completion, but could be interesting to hear their experience designing, building, test, etc.. Cheers, Ian. -----Original Message----- >From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles >Sent: Dec 25, 2017 6:23 AM >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Another garage sub. > >http://www.psubs.org/mlist/archive/1010/msg00115.html >-------------------------------------------- >On Sun, 12/24/17, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Another garage sub. > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Date: Sunday, December 24, 2017, 11:25 AM > > Found > this Carsten,https://siriholmberg.weebly.com/about-siri--holmberg.htmlAlan > > Sent from my iPad > On > 25/12/2017, at 2:21 AM, MerlinSub at t-online.de > via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > > https://www.expressen.se/kvallsposten/birger-har-en-ubat-hemma-i-garaget/ > > The only > info I found. vbr Carsten > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 25 13:34:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 18:34:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Another garage sub. In-Reply-To: <1332832974.195849.1514225794808@wamui-dingo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <1332832974.195849.1514225794808@wamui-dingo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1625080267.4266144.1514226890468@mail.yahoo.com> Looks to me like it might have a pressure hull inside the shell. ?The windows don't look like they can handle 150 feet.Hank On Monday, December 25, 2017, 11:16:46 AM MST, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: The Mendo Machine Shop still seems to be in business, and not too far from me (150miles). Perhaps I can visit them.? My understanding what the sub got shipped off to Europe after completion, but could be interesting to hear their experience designing, building, test, etc.. Cheers, ? Ian. -----Original Message----- >From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles >Sent: Dec 25, 2017 6:23 AM >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Another garage sub. > >http://www.psubs.org/mlist/archive/1010/msg00115.html >-------------------------------------------- >On Sun, 12/24/17, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Another garage sub. > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Date: Sunday, December 24, 2017, 11:25 AM > > Found > this Carsten,https://siriholmberg.weebly.com/about-siri--holmberg.htmlAlan > > Sent from my iPad > On > 25/12/2017, at 2:21 AM, MerlinSub at t-online.de > via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > > https://www.expressen.se/kvallsposten/birger-har-en-ubat-hemma-i-garaget/ > > The only > info I found. vbr Carsten > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 25 13:38:48 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 18:38:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions In-Reply-To: <005b01d37da8$df8e0280$9eaa0780$@indy.rr.com> References: <005b01d37da8$df8e0280$9eaa0780$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: <75631108.4277336.1514227129004@mail.yahoo.com> Steve,I am not using an external regulator outside the hull, I don't see the need. ?Gamma used to have external O2 bottles and that system had the regulator inside the hull also.Hank On Monday, December 25, 2017, 10:50:55 AM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All, I am purchasing the system components for my K-250?s O2 system.? I am not a SCUBA diver so I lack some experience with regulators. I am considering sealed/balanced options for the first stage regulator (it will create an intermediate pressure downstream of the O2 tank (located external of the hull). These get pricey and I don?t really want to overspend for options I do not need (sealed vs. not, balanced vs. unbalanced, O2 ready vs. needing cleaned). ? A couple of questions: - They sell regulators that are already suitable for 100% O2 use. How difficult to clean one that is not O2 ready? - The pediatric flow regulator (located in the hull) can directly handle the O2 tank pressure so I am wondering why we use the first stage regulators at all. - I assume to remove as many HP leak sources from within the hull especially since it is 100% O2 (safety). ? Thoughts/recommendations? ? Steve ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 25 14:49:27 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 08:49:27 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions In-Reply-To: <005b01d37da8$df8e0280$9eaa0780$@indy.rr.com> References: <005b01d37da8$df8e0280$9eaa0780$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: Steve, I had some regulators O2 cleaned. The dive shop which specialised in technical diving said they could only O2 clean certain regulators, & recommended a couple of models. I believe someone on Psubs disagreed with this & thought all regulators could be O2 cleaned, but that was my experience. I would suggest you ask the dive shop you intend to deal with about this. I wouldn't worry about an expensive regulator as you are not breathing from it directly so the subtleties of performance would be of no use. You need to monitor the contents of your tank, & a first stage regulator has high pressure ports for your pressure gauge. I am not sure how Hank does this with the O2 high pressure direct on to the sub; probably an internal gauge. Another factor in the equation is where you are going to get the O2 filled. If you are getting it filled at a dive shop, the tank will require a scuba type fitting, & they may require some sort of certification. Even though I was a diver I'm not qualified for mixed gas diving & they required me to do a " Emergency O2 provider" course. If you are intending to fill at a medical O2 supplier / industrial gas supplier, then you will need a different tank fitting. I am only feeding low pressure O2 to my hull, mainly because it is a one person sub & the pressure could build up a lot quicker with a leak. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 26/12/2017, at 6:50 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > All, I am purchasing the system components for my K-250?s O2 system. I am not a SCUBA diver so I lack some experience with regulators. I am considering sealed/balanced options for the first stage regulator (it will create an intermediate pressure downstream of the O2 tank (located external of the hull). These get pricey and I don?t really want to overspend for options I do not need (sealed vs. not, balanced vs. unbalanced, O2 ready vs. needing cleaned). > > A couple of questions: > They sell regulators that are already suitable for 100% O2 use. How difficult to clean one that is not O2 ready? > The pediatric flow regulator (located in the hull) can directly handle the O2 tank pressure so I am wondering why we use the first stage regulators at all. > I assume to remove as many HP leak sources from within the hull especially since it is 100% O2 (safety). > > Thoughts/recommendations? > > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 25 14:56:36 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 14:56:36 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions In-Reply-To: <005b01d37da8$df8e0280$9eaa0780$@indy.rr.com> References: <005b01d37da8$df8e0280$9eaa0780$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: Hi Steve, I use a 1st stage outside the hull. As you say the flow regulator can handle the tank pressure, so it is not strictly necessary, but I do so as an extra safety precaution to avoid bringing high pressure O2 inside. If doing it again I would the reg directly on the tank, so that way all of the tubing would see only low pressure. I'm using a 1st stage that is incredibly inexpensive ($60), but I'm delighted with the quality and what is a big plus for me, it's a particularly simple design. I've collected three of them by now, and not any problem at all. https://www.piranhadivemfg.com/item/Balance-Piston-Din-First-Stage--For-Pony--Stage-Bottles--Nitrox-Ready-11738 I do my own oxygen cleaning on tubing and penetrators, but prefer to buy O2-clean regs and valves. You may notice this reg is advertised for Nitrox, not pure oxygen. I spoke to the owner of the business selling it, and he told me the cleaning and materials are identical for partial or full O2, but that they advertise it only for partial O2 use as a legal CYA. Best, Alec On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > All, I am purchasing the system components for my K-250?s O2 system. I am > not a SCUBA diver so I lack some experience with regulators. I am > considering sealed/balanced options for the first stage regulator (it will > create an intermediate pressure downstream of the O2 tank (located external > of the hull). These get pricey and I don?t really want to overspend for > options I do not need (sealed vs. not, balanced vs. unbalanced, O2 ready > vs. needing cleaned). > > > > A couple of questions: > > 1. They sell regulators that are already suitable for 100% O2 use. How > difficult to clean one that is not O2 ready? > 2. The pediatric flow regulator (located in the hull) can directly > handle the O2 tank pressure so I am wondering why we use the first stage > regulators at all. > 1. I assume to remove as many HP leak sources from within the hull > especially since it is 100% O2 (safety). > > > > Thoughts/recommendations? > > > > Steve > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 25 15:16:35 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 20:16:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions In-Reply-To: References: <005b01d37da8$df8e0280$9eaa0780$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: <1954013397.4288747.1514232996007@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,Both Gamma and Elementary have a tower valve that the paediatric regulator attaches too. ?The tower valve threads directly to the hull penetrator. ?The tower valve itself would have to fail to leak. ?The safest as you said would be HP reg on the supply tank. ?Hank On Monday, December 25, 2017, 12:56:54 PM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Steve, I use a 1st stage outside the hull. As you say the flow regulator can handle the tank pressure, so it is not strictly necessary, but I do so as an extra safety precaution to avoid bringing high pressure O2 inside. If doing it again I would the reg directly on the tank, so that way all of the tubing would see only low pressure.? I'm using a 1st stage that is incredibly inexpensive ($60), but I'm delighted with the quality and what is a big plus for me, it's a particularly simple design. I've collected three of them by now, and not any problem at all. https://www.piranhadivemfg.com/item/Balance-Piston-Din-First-Stage--For-Pony--Stage-Bottles--Nitrox-Ready-11738 I do my own oxygen cleaning on tubing and penetrators, but prefer to buy O2-clean regs and valves. You may notice this reg is advertised for Nitrox, not pure oxygen. I spoke to the owner of the business selling it, and he told me the cleaning and materials are identical for partial or full O2, but that they advertise it only for partial O2 use as a legal CYA.? Best,Alec?? On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All, I am purchasing the system components for my K-250?s O2 system.? I am not a SCUBA diver so I lack some experience with regulators. I am considering sealed/balanced options for the first stage regulator (it will create an intermediate pressure downstream of the O2 tank (located external of the hull). These get pricey and I don?t really want to overspend for options I do not need (sealed vs. not, balanced vs. unbalanced, O2 ready vs. needing cleaned). ? A couple of questions: - They sell regulators that are already suitable for 100% O2 use. How difficult to clean one that is not O2 ready? - The pediatric flow regulator (located in the hull) can directly handle the O2 tank pressure so I am wondering why we use the first stage regulators at all. - I assume to remove as many HP leak sources from within the hull especially since it is 100% O2 (safety). ? Thoughts/recommendations? ? Steve ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 25 15:28:07 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 09:28:07 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions In-Reply-To: References: <005b01d37da8$df8e0280$9eaa0780$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: <379F02A4-7A06-46C0-84A6-0759780D11C0@yahoo.com> Steve, another factor that may influence your decision is how you want to set up a BIBS. If you have a divers regulator for emergency breathing they normally operate off 130 psi. Hmmm got me thinking now; if the emergency regulator is operating off a line directly from the 1st stage regulator external to the hull then it will see 130 psi above ambient. So at your max depth it will see 255 psi. Conversely if you had a high pressure line to your sub & a regulator dropping the pressure to 130psi, then if you needed to flood your sub to get out the regulator would only see 5 psi above ambient by the time the sub filled, if you were escaping from 250ft. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 26/12/2017, at 8:56 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Steve, > > I use a 1st stage outside the hull. As you say the flow regulator can handle the tank pressure, so it is not strictly necessary, but I do so as an extra safety precaution to avoid bringing high pressure O2 inside. If doing it again I would the reg directly on the tank, so that way all of the tubing would see only low pressure. > > I'm using a 1st stage that is incredibly inexpensive ($60), but I'm delighted with the quality and what is a big plus for me, it's a particularly simple design. I've collected three of them by now, and not any problem at all. > > https://www.piranhadivemfg.com/item/Balance-Piston-Din-First-Stage--For-Pony--Stage-Bottles--Nitrox-Ready-11738 > > I do my own oxygen cleaning on tubing and penetrators, but prefer to buy O2-clean regs and valves. You may notice this reg is advertised for Nitrox, not pure oxygen. I spoke to the owner of the business selling it, and he told me the cleaning and materials are identical for partial or full O2, but that they advertise it only for partial O2 use as a legal CYA. > > > Best, > Alec > >> On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> All, I am purchasing the system components for my K-250?s O2 system. I am not a SCUBA diver so I lack some experience with regulators. I am considering sealed/balanced options for the first stage regulator (it will create an intermediate pressure downstream of the O2 tank (located external of the hull). These get pricey and I don?t really want to overspend for options I do not need (sealed vs. not, balanced vs. unbalanced, O2 ready vs. needing cleaned). >> >> >> >> A couple of questions: >> >> They sell regulators that are already suitable for 100% O2 use. How difficult to clean one that is not O2 ready? >> The pediatric flow regulator (located in the hull) can directly handle the O2 tank pressure so I am wondering why we use the first stage regulators at all. >> I assume to remove as many HP leak sources from within the hull especially since it is 100% O2 (safety). >> >> >> Thoughts/recommendations? >> >> >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 25 15:32:13 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Kyle Davison via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 15:32:13 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions Message-ID: Thanks guys. Good points, just what I was trying to sort out. I had been looking at some regulators in the $250 + price range. Glad I asked and thanks for Sharing. Steve On December 25, 2017, at 2:56 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Steve, I use a 1st stage outside the hull. As you say the flow regulator can handle the tank pressure, so it is not strictly necessary, but I do so as an extra safety precaution to avoid bringing high pressure O2 inside. If doing it again I would the reg directly on the tank, so that way all of the tubing would see only low pressure.? I'm using a 1st stage that is incredibly inexpensive ($60), but I'm delighted with the quality and what is a big plus for me, it's a particularly simple design. I've collected three of them by now, and not any problem at all. https://www.piranhadivemfg.com/item/Balance-Piston-Din-First-Stage--For-Pony--Stage-Bottles--Nitrox-Ready-11738 I do my own oxygen cleaning on tubing and penetrators, but prefer to buy O2-clean regs and valves. You may notice this reg is advertised for Nitrox, not pure oxygen. I spoke to the owner of the business selling it, and he told me the cleaning and materials are identical for partial or full O2, but that they advertise it only for partial O2 use as a legal CYA.? Best, Alec?? On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All, I am purchasing the system components for my K-250?s O2 system.? I am not a SCUBA diver so I lack some experience with regulators. I am considering sealed/balanced options for the first stage regulator (it will create an intermediate pressure downstream of the O2 tank (located external of the hull). These get pricey and I don?t really want to overspend for options I do not need (sealed vs. not, balanced vs. unbalanced, O2 ready vs. needing cleaned). ? A couple of questions: They sell regulators that are already suitable for 100% O2 use. How difficult to clean one that is not O2 ready?The pediatric flow regulator (located in the hull) can directly handle the O2 tank pressure so I am wondering why we use the first stage regulators at all.I assume to remove as many HP leak sources from within the hull especially since it is 100% O2 (safety). ? Thoughts/recommendations? ? Steve ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 25 15:42:19 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 12:42:19 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions Message-ID: <20171225124219.2D19CDD8@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 25 16:08:02 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 16:08:02 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions In-Reply-To: <379F02A4-7A06-46C0-84A6-0759780D11C0@yahoo.com> References: <005b01d37da8$df8e0280$9eaa0780$@indy.rr.com> <379F02A4-7A06-46C0-84A6-0759780D11C0@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, Just to clarify, I was referring to HP Oxygen. For air I do bring HP into the hull and there is a 1st stage inside for the BIBS. Thanks, Alec On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 3:28 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Steve, > another factor that may influence your decision is how you want to > set up a BIBS. If you have a divers regulator for emergency breathing they > normally operate off 130 psi. Hmmm got me thinking now; if the emergency > regulator is operating off a line directly from the 1st stage regulator > external > to the hull then it will see 130 psi above ambient. So at your max depth > it will > see 255 psi. > Conversely if you had a high pressure line to your sub & a regulator > dropping > the pressure to 130psi, then if you needed to flood your sub to get out > the > regulator would only see 5 psi above ambient by the time the sub filled, > if you > were escaping from 250ft. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 26/12/2017, at 8:56 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Steve, > > I use a 1st stage outside the hull. As you say the flow regulator can > handle the tank pressure, so it is not strictly necessary, but I do so as > an extra safety precaution to avoid bringing high pressure O2 inside. If > doing it again I would the reg directly on the tank, so that way all of the > tubing would see only low pressure. > > I'm using a 1st stage that is incredibly inexpensive ($60), but I'm > delighted with the quality and what is a big plus for me, it's a > particularly simple design. I've collected three of them by now, and not > any problem at all. > > https://www.piranhadivemfg.com/item/Balance-Piston-Din- > First-Stage--For-Pony--Stage-Bottles--Nitrox-Ready-11738 > > I do my own oxygen cleaning on tubing and penetrators, but prefer to buy > O2-clean regs and valves. You may notice this reg is advertised for Nitrox, > not pure oxygen. I spoke to the owner of the business selling it, and he > told me the cleaning and materials are identical for partial or full O2, > but that they advertise it only for partial O2 use as a legal CYA. > > > Best, > Alec > > On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> All, I am purchasing the system components for my K-250?s O2 system. I >> am not a SCUBA diver so I lack some experience with regulators. I am >> considering sealed/balanced options for the first stage regulator (it will >> create an intermediate pressure downstream of the O2 tank (located external >> of the hull). These get pricey and I don?t really want to overspend for >> options I do not need (sealed vs. not, balanced vs. unbalanced, O2 ready >> vs. needing cleaned). >> >> >> >> A couple of questions: >> >> 1. They sell regulators that are already suitable for 100% O2 use. >> How difficult to clean one that is not O2 ready? >> 2. The pediatric flow regulator (located in the hull) can directly >> handle the O2 tank pressure so I am wondering why we use the first stage >> regulators at all. >> 1. I assume to remove as many HP leak sources from within the hull >> especially since it is 100% O2 (safety). >> >> >> >> Thoughts/recommendations? >> >> >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 25 16:42:17 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 22:42:17 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions In-Reply-To: References: <005b01d37da8$df8e0280$9eaa0780$@indy.rr.com> <379F02A4-7A06-46C0-84A6-0759780D11C0@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Why are using puere oxigen, i practice scuba diving and we use compresed air, can use mix with 40% , but why puer oxigen on the sub? 2017-12-25 22:08 GMT+01:00 Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > Hi Alan, > > Just to clarify, I was referring to HP Oxygen. For air I do bring HP into > the hull and there is a 1st stage inside for the BIBS. > > Thanks, > Alec > > On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 3:28 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Steve, >> another factor that may influence your decision is how you want to >> set up a BIBS. If you have a divers regulator for emergency breathing they >> normally operate off 130 psi. Hmmm got me thinking now; if the emergency >> regulator is operating off a line directly from the 1st stage regulator >> external >> to the hull then it will see 130 psi above ambient. So at your max depth >> it will >> see 255 psi. >> Conversely if you had a high pressure line to your sub & a regulator >> dropping >> the pressure to 130psi, then if you needed to flood your sub to get out >> the >> regulator would only see 5 psi above ambient by the time the sub filled, >> if you >> were escaping from 250ft. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 26/12/2017, at 8:56 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi Steve, >> >> I use a 1st stage outside the hull. As you say the flow regulator can >> handle the tank pressure, so it is not strictly necessary, but I do so as >> an extra safety precaution to avoid bringing high pressure O2 inside. If >> doing it again I would the reg directly on the tank, so that way all of the >> tubing would see only low pressure. >> >> I'm using a 1st stage that is incredibly inexpensive ($60), but I'm >> delighted with the quality and what is a big plus for me, it's a >> particularly simple design. I've collected three of them by now, and not >> any problem at all. >> >> https://www.piranhadivemfg.com/item/Balance-Piston-Din-First >> -Stage--For-Pony--Stage-Bottles--Nitrox-Ready-11738 >> >> I do my own oxygen cleaning on tubing and penetrators, but prefer to buy >> O2-clean regs and valves. You may notice this reg is advertised for Nitrox, >> not pure oxygen. I spoke to the owner of the business selling it, and he >> told me the cleaning and materials are identical for partial or full O2, >> but that they advertise it only for partial O2 use as a legal CYA. >> >> >> Best, >> Alec >> >> On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >>> All, I am purchasing the system components for my K-250?s O2 system. I >>> am not a SCUBA diver so I lack some experience with regulators. I am >>> considering sealed/balanced options for the first stage regulator (it will >>> create an intermediate pressure downstream of the O2 tank (located external >>> of the hull). These get pricey and I don?t really want to overspend for >>> options I do not need (sealed vs. not, balanced vs. unbalanced, O2 ready >>> vs. needing cleaned). >>> >>> >>> >>> A couple of questions: >>> >>> 1. They sell regulators that are already suitable for 100% O2 use. >>> How difficult to clean one that is not O2 ready? >>> 2. The pediatric flow regulator (located in the hull) can directly >>> handle the O2 tank pressure so I am wondering why we use the first stage >>> regulators at all. >>> 1. I assume to remove as many HP leak sources from within the >>> hull especially since it is 100% O2 (safety). >>> >>> >>> >>> Thoughts/recommendations? >>> >>> >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 25 17:02:41 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 11:02:41 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions In-Reply-To: References: <005b01d37da8$df8e0280$9eaa0780$@indy.rr.com> <379F02A4-7A06-46C0-84A6-0759780D11C0@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <399F9001-74FA-4A05-9D41-1B862C6F66D1@yahoo.com> Alec, yes went off tangent there. Morning in NZ recovering from Christmas. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 26/12/2017, at 10:08 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > Just to clarify, I was referring to HP Oxygen. For air I do bring HP into the hull and there is a 1st stage inside for the BIBS. > > Thanks, > Alec > >> On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 3:28 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Steve, >> another factor that may influence your decision is how you want to >> set up a BIBS. If you have a divers regulator for emergency breathing they >> normally operate off 130 psi. Hmmm got me thinking now; if the emergency >> regulator is operating off a line directly from the 1st stage regulator external >> to the hull then it will see 130 psi above ambient. So at your max depth it will >> see 255 psi. >> Conversely if you had a high pressure line to your sub & a regulator dropping >> the pressure to 130psi, then if you needed to flood your sub to get out the >> regulator would only see 5 psi above ambient by the time the sub filled, if you >> were escaping from 250ft. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 26/12/2017, at 8:56 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi Steve, >>> >>> I use a 1st stage outside the hull. As you say the flow regulator can handle the tank pressure, so it is not strictly necessary, but I do so as an extra safety precaution to avoid bringing high pressure O2 inside. If doing it again I would the reg directly on the tank, so that way all of the tubing would see only low pressure. >>> >>> I'm using a 1st stage that is incredibly inexpensive ($60), but I'm delighted with the quality and what is a big plus for me, it's a particularly simple design. I've collected three of them by now, and not any problem at all. >>> >>> https://www.piranhadivemfg.com/item/Balance-Piston-Din-First-Stage--For-Pony--Stage-Bottles--Nitrox-Ready-11738 >>> >>> I do my own oxygen cleaning on tubing and penetrators, but prefer to buy O2-clean regs and valves. You may notice this reg is advertised for Nitrox, not pure oxygen. I spoke to the owner of the business selling it, and he told me the cleaning and materials are identical for partial or full O2, but that they advertise it only for partial O2 use as a legal CYA. >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> Alec >>> >>>> On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> All, I am purchasing the system components for my K-250?s O2 system. I am not a SCUBA diver so I lack some experience with regulators. I am considering sealed/balanced options for the first stage regulator (it will create an intermediate pressure downstream of the O2 tank (located external of the hull). These get pricey and I don?t really want to overspend for options I do not need (sealed vs. not, balanced vs. unbalanced, O2 ready vs. needing cleaned). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> A couple of questions: >>>> >>>> They sell regulators that are already suitable for 100% O2 use. How difficult to clean one that is not O2 ready? >>>> The pediatric flow regulator (located in the hull) can directly handle the O2 tank pressure so I am wondering why we use the first stage regulators at all. >>>> I assume to remove as many HP leak sources from within the hull especially since it is 100% O2 (safety). >>>> >>>> >>>> Thoughts/recommendations? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 25 17:11:01 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 11:11:01 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions In-Reply-To: References: <005b01d37da8$df8e0280$9eaa0780$@indy.rr.com> <379F02A4-7A06-46C0-84A6-0759780D11C0@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8B4DECFA-46FE-47AA-A803-A2A065B53479@yahoo.com> Roberto, within the 1atm hull of a submarine you have O2 coming in at the same rate that your body consumes it. The O2 consumed is breathed out as CO2 & this is scrubbed away. So there is no pressure build up in the sub. If you have a 40% mix of O2 & nitrogen or any other gas then you will build up pressure inside the hull. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 26/12/2017, at 10:42 AM, roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Why are using puere oxigen, i practice scuba diving and we use compresed air, can use mix with 40% , but why puer oxigen on the sub? > > 2017-12-25 22:08 GMT+01:00 Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles : >> Hi Alan, >> >> Just to clarify, I was referring to HP Oxygen. For air I do bring HP into the hull and there is a 1st stage inside for the BIBS. >> >> Thanks, >> Alec >> >>> On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 3:28 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Steve, >>> another factor that may influence your decision is how you want to >>> set up a BIBS. If you have a divers regulator for emergency breathing they >>> normally operate off 130 psi. Hmmm got me thinking now; if the emergency >>> regulator is operating off a line directly from the 1st stage regulator external >>> to the hull then it will see 130 psi above ambient. So at your max depth it will >>> see 255 psi. >>> Conversely if you had a high pressure line to your sub & a regulator dropping >>> the pressure to 130psi, then if you needed to flood your sub to get out the >>> regulator would only see 5 psi above ambient by the time the sub filled, if you >>> were escaping from 250ft. >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 26/12/2017, at 8:56 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Steve, >>>> >>>> I use a 1st stage outside the hull. As you say the flow regulator can handle the tank pressure, so it is not strictly necessary, but I do so as an extra safety precaution to avoid bringing high pressure O2 inside. If doing it again I would the reg directly on the tank, so that way all of the tubing would see only low pressure. >>>> >>>> I'm using a 1st stage that is incredibly inexpensive ($60), but I'm delighted with the quality and what is a big plus for me, it's a particularly simple design. I've collected three of them by now, and not any problem at all. >>>> >>>> https://www.piranhadivemfg.com/item/Balance-Piston-Din-First-Stage--For-Pony--Stage-Bottles--Nitrox-Ready-11738 >>>> >>>> I do my own oxygen cleaning on tubing and penetrators, but prefer to buy O2-clean regs and valves. You may notice this reg is advertised for Nitrox, not pure oxygen. I spoke to the owner of the business selling it, and he told me the cleaning and materials are identical for partial or full O2, but that they advertise it only for partial O2 use as a legal CYA. >>>> >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Alec >>>> >>>>> On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> All, I am purchasing the system components for my K-250?s O2 system. I am not a SCUBA diver so I lack some experience with regulators. I am considering sealed/balanced options for the first stage regulator (it will create an intermediate pressure downstream of the O2 tank (located external of the hull). These get pricey and I don?t really want to overspend for options I do not need (sealed vs. not, balanced vs. unbalanced, O2 ready vs. needing cleaned). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> A couple of questions: >>>>> >>>>> They sell regulators that are already suitable for 100% O2 use. How difficult to clean one that is not O2 ready? >>>>> The pediatric flow regulator (located in the hull) can directly handle the O2 tank pressure so I am wondering why we use the first stage regulators at all. >>>>> I assume to remove as many HP leak sources from within the hull especially since it is 100% O2 (safety). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thoughts/recommendations? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 25 17:15:00 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 22:15:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions In-Reply-To: <20171225124219.2D19CDD8@m0117164.ppops.net> References: <20171225124219.2D19CDD8@m0117164.ppops.net> Message-ID: <473365200.4312568.1514240100933@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,Yes Gamma has the O2 supply inside the sub, it used to be both inside and outside when I got it. ? I know it against the rules but I prefer the O2 onboard for safety reasons. ?I think there is less risk of a tank rupture than a O2 line failure. ?If your stuck down there, I think the O2 and absorbent should be inside the sub. ?Elementary is set up for external, and for weight reasons probably will stay that way.Hank On Monday, December 25, 2017, 1:42:33 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,???????? You have O2 tank inside sub??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 18:38:48 +0000 (UTC) Steve,I am not using an external regulator outside the hull, I don't see the need. ?Gamma used to have external O2 bottles and that system had the regulator inside the hull also.Hank On Monday, December 25, 2017, 10:50:55 AM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All, I am purchasing the system components for my K-250?s O2 system.? I am not a SCUBA diver so I lack some experience with regulators. I am considering sealed/balanced options for the first stage regulator (it will create an intermediate pressure downstream of the O2 tank (located external of the hull). These get pricey and I don?t really want to overspend for options I do not need (sealed vs. not, balanced vs. unbalanced, O2 ready vs. needing cleaned). ? A couple of questions: - They sell regulators that are already suitable for 100% O2 use. How difficult to clean one that is not O2 ready? - The pediatric flow regulator (located in the hull) can directly handle the O2 tank pressure so I am wondering why we use the first stage regulators at all. - I assume to remove as many HP leak sources from within the hull especially since it is 100% O2 (safety). ? Thoughts/recommendations? ? Steve ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 25 17:55:11 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 23:55:11 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions In-Reply-To: <8B4DECFA-46FE-47AA-A803-A2A065B53479@yahoo.com> References: <005b01d37da8$df8e0280$9eaa0780$@indy.rr.com> <379F02A4-7A06-46C0-84A6-0759780D11C0@yahoo.com> <8B4DECFA-46FE-47AA-A803-A2A065B53479@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thank you Alan, thats why an scuba regulator is not necessary if we have a regulator and a flow meter, and they are using scuba tanks o scuba tank valves ( yoke or din ) to transport the O2 and use scuba hoses and plumbing, not because they will carry air.now i understand, on the deco bottles we use O2 , the pressure is around 145 psi, But we never down more than 100 ft thank`s 2017-12-25 23:11 GMT+01:00 Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > Roberto, > within the 1atm hull of a submarine you have O2 coming in at the same rate > that your > body consumes it. The O2 consumed is breathed out as CO2 & this is scrubbed > away. So there is no pressure build up in the sub. If you have a 40% mix > of O2 & nitrogen > or any other gas then you will build up pressure inside the hull. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 26/12/2017, at 10:42 AM, roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Why are using puere oxigen, i practice scuba diving and we use compresed > air, can use mix with 40% , but why puer oxigen on the sub? > > 2017-12-25 22:08 GMT+01:00 Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > >> Hi Alan, >> >> Just to clarify, I was referring to HP Oxygen. For air I do bring HP into >> the hull and there is a 1st stage inside for the BIBS. >> >> Thanks, >> Alec >> >> On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 3:28 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Steve, >>> another factor that may influence your decision is how you want to >>> set up a BIBS. If you have a divers regulator for emergency breathing >>> they >>> normally operate off 130 psi. Hmmm got me thinking now; if the emergency >>> regulator is operating off a line directly from the 1st stage regulator >>> external >>> to the hull then it will see 130 psi above ambient. So at your max depth >>> it will >>> see 255 psi. >>> Conversely if you had a high pressure line to your sub & a regulator >>> dropping >>> the pressure to 130psi, then if you needed to flood your sub to get out >>> the >>> regulator would only see 5 psi above ambient by the time the sub filled, >>> if you >>> were escaping from 250ft. >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 26/12/2017, at 8:56 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Steve, >>> >>> I use a 1st stage outside the hull. As you say the flow regulator can >>> handle the tank pressure, so it is not strictly necessary, but I do so as >>> an extra safety precaution to avoid bringing high pressure O2 inside. If >>> doing it again I would the reg directly on the tank, so that way all of the >>> tubing would see only low pressure. >>> >>> I'm using a 1st stage that is incredibly inexpensive ($60), but I'm >>> delighted with the quality and what is a big plus for me, it's a >>> particularly simple design. I've collected three of them by now, and not >>> any problem at all. >>> >>> https://www.piranhadivemfg.com/item/Balance-Piston-Din-First >>> -Stage--For-Pony--Stage-Bottles--Nitrox-Ready-11738 >>> >>> I do my own oxygen cleaning on tubing and penetrators, but prefer to buy >>> O2-clean regs and valves. You may notice this reg is advertised for Nitrox, >>> not pure oxygen. I spoke to the owner of the business selling it, and he >>> told me the cleaning and materials are identical for partial or full O2, >>> but that they advertise it only for partial O2 use as a legal CYA. >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> Alec >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Steve McQueen via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> All, I am purchasing the system components for my K-250?s O2 system. I >>>> am not a SCUBA diver so I lack some experience with regulators. I am >>>> considering sealed/balanced options for the first stage regulator (it will >>>> create an intermediate pressure downstream of the O2 tank (located external >>>> of the hull). These get pricey and I don?t really want to overspend for >>>> options I do not need (sealed vs. not, balanced vs. unbalanced, O2 ready >>>> vs. needing cleaned). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> A couple of questions: >>>> >>>> 1. They sell regulators that are already suitable for 100% O2 use. >>>> How difficult to clean one that is not O2 ready? >>>> 2. The pediatric flow regulator (located in the hull) can directly >>>> handle the O2 tank pressure so I am wondering why we use the first stage >>>> regulators at all. >>>> 1. I assume to remove as many HP leak sources from within the >>>> hull especially since it is 100% O2 (safety). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thoughts/recommendations? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 25 18:07:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 15:07:50 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions Message-ID: <20171225150750.2D19D2BF@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 25 18:17:08 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 15:17:08 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air wand Message-ID: <20171225151708.2D19D2A8@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 25 18:39:10 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 18:39:10 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hank, It's not necessarily against the rules. Internal gas bottles just need to be arranged so that the total leaking of any single bottle doesn't raise the cabin pressure more than 1atm, or enough to unseat the windows, etc. So you need lots of little bottles instead of 1 big one. River J Dolfi Rdolfi7 at gmail.com On Dec 25, 2017 5:55 PM, "via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) 2. Re: First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions (roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 22:15:00 +0000 (UTC) From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions Message-ID: <473365200.4312568.1514240100933 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Brian,Yes Gamma has the O2 supply inside the sub, it used to be both inside and outside when I got it. ? I know it against the rules but I prefer the O2 onboard for safety reasons. ?I think there is less risk of a tank rupture than a O2 line failure. ?If your stuck down there, I think the O2 and absorbent should be inside the sub. ?Elementary is set up for external, and for weight reasons probably will stay that way.Hank On Monday, December 25, 2017, 1:42:33 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,???????? You have O2 tank inside sub??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 18:38:48 +0000 (UTC) Steve,I am not using an external regulator outside the hull, I don't see the need. ?Gamma used to have external O2 bottles and that system had the regulator inside the hull also.Hank On Monday, December 25, 2017, 10:50:55 AM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All, I am purchasing the system components for my K-250?s O2 system.? I am not a SCUBA diver so I lack some experience with regulators. I am considering sealed/balanced options for the first stage regulator (it will create an intermediate pressure downstream of the O2 tank (located external of the hull). These get pricey and I don?t really want to overspend for options I do not need (sealed vs. not, balanced vs. unbalanced, O2 ready vs. needing cleaned). ? A couple of questions: - They sell regulators that are already suitable for 100% O2 use. How difficult to clean one that is not O2 ready? - The pediatric flow regulator (located in the hull) can directly handle the O2 tank pressure so I am wondering why we use the first stage regulators at all. - I assume to remove as many HP leak sources from within the hull especially since it is 100% O2 (safety). ? Thoughts/recommendations? ? Steve ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/ mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles__________________ _____________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 23:55:11 +0100 From: roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Thank you Alan, thats why an scuba regulator is not necessary if we have a regulator and a flow meter, and they are using scuba tanks o scuba tank valves ( yoke or din ) to transport the O2 and use scuba hoses and plumbing, not because they will carry air.now i understand, on the deco bottles we use O2 , the pressure is around 145 psi, But we never down more than 100 ft thank`s 2017-12-25 23:11 GMT+01:00 Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > Roberto, > within the 1atm hull of a submarine you have O2 coming in at the same rate > that your > body consumes it. The O2 consumed is breathed out as CO2 & this is scrubbed > away. So there is no pressure build up in the sub. If you have a 40% mix > of O2 & nitrogen > or any other gas then you will build up pressure inside the hull. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 26/12/2017, at 10:42 AM, roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Why are using puere oxigen, i practice scuba diving and we use compresed > air, can use mix with 40% , but why puer oxigen on the sub? > > 2017-12-25 22:08 GMT+01:00 Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > >> Hi Alan, >> >> Just to clarify, I was referring to HP Oxygen. For air I do bring HP into >> the hull and there is a 1st stage inside for the BIBS. >> >> Thanks, >> Alec >> >> On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 3:28 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Steve, >>> another factor that may influence your decision is how you want to >>> set up a BIBS. If you have a divers regulator for emergency breathing >>> they >>> normally operate off 130 psi. Hmmm got me thinking now; if the emergency >>> regulator is operating off a line directly from the 1st stage regulator >>> external >>> to the hull then it will see 130 psi above ambient. So at your max depth >>> it will >>> see 255 psi. >>> Conversely if you had a high pressure line to your sub & a regulator >>> dropping >>> the pressure to 130psi, then if you needed to flood your sub to get out >>> the >>> regulator would only see 5 psi above ambient by the time the sub filled, >>> if you >>> were escaping from 250ft. >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 26/12/2017, at 8:56 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Steve, >>> >>> I use a 1st stage outside the hull. As you say the flow regulator can >>> handle the tank pressure, so it is not strictly necessary, but I do so as >>> an extra safety precaution to avoid bringing high pressure O2 inside. If >>> doing it again I would the reg directly on the tank, so that way all of the >>> tubing would see only low pressure. >>> >>> I'm using a 1st stage that is incredibly inexpensive ($60), but I'm >>> delighted with the quality and what is a big plus for me, it's a >>> particularly simple design. I've collected three of them by now, and not >>> any problem at all. >>> >>> https://www.piranhadivemfg.com/item/Balance-Piston-Din-First >>> -Stage--For-Pony--Stage-Bottles--Nitrox-Ready-11738 >>> >>> I do my own oxygen cleaning on tubing and penetrators, but prefer to buy >>> O2-clean regs and valves. You may notice this reg is advertised for Nitrox, >>> not pure oxygen. I spoke to the owner of the business selling it, and he >>> told me the cleaning and materials are identical for partial or full O2, >>> but that they advertise it only for partial O2 use as a legal CYA. >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> Alec >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Steve McQueen via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> All, I am purchasing the system components for my K-250?s O2 system. I >>>> am not a SCUBA diver so I lack some experience with regulators. I am >>>> considering sealed/balanced options for the first stage regulator (it will >>>> create an intermediate pressure downstream of the O2 tank (located external >>>> of the hull). These get pricey and I don?t really want to overspend for >>>> options I do not need (sealed vs. not, balanced vs. unbalanced, O2 ready >>>> vs. needing cleaned). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> A couple of questions: >>>> >>>> 1. They sell regulators that are already suitable for 100% O2 use. >>>> How difficult to clean one that is not O2 ready? >>>> 2. The pediatric flow regulator (located in the hull) can directly >>>> handle the O2 tank pressure so I am wondering why we use the first stage >>>> regulators at all. >>>> 1. I assume to remove as many HP leak sources from within the >>>> hull especially since it is 100% O2 (safety). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thoughts/recommendations? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 54, Issue 54 ***************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 25 19:41:29 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 00:41:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1598253888.4339451.1514248890011@mail.yahoo.com> River,Right, I remember that now. ?I have four small bottles. ?I could be exempt from the rule though because I have an onboard 3,000 psi compressor that deals with over pressure. ?Although rare, I have equalized Gamma before surfacing with the compressor.Hank On Monday, December 25, 2017, 4:39:29 PM MST, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, It's not necessarily against the rules. Internal gas bottles just need to be arranged so that the total leaking of any single bottle doesn't raise the cabin pressure more than 1atm, or enough to unseat the windows, etc. So you need lots of little bottles instead of 1 big one.? River J Dolfi Rdolfi7 at gmail.com On Dec 25, 2017 5:55 PM, "via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to ? ? ? ? personal_submersibles at psubs. org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ? ? ? ? http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ? ? ? ? personal_submersibles-request@ psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at ? ? ? ? personal_submersibles-owner@ psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: ? ?1. Re: First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions ? ? ? (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) ? ?2. Re: First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions ? ? ? (roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles) ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ---------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 22:15:00 +0000 (UTC) From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? ? To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service ? ? ? ? Questions Message-ID: <473365200.4312568. 1514240100933 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" ?Brian,Yes Gamma has the O2 supply inside the sub, it used to be both inside and outside when I got it. ? I know it against the rules but I prefer the O2 onboard for safety reasons. ?I think there is less risk of a tank rupture than a O2 line failure. ?If your stuck down there, I think the O2 and absorbent should be inside the sub. ?Elementary is set up for external, and for weight reasons probably will stay that way.Hank ? ? On Monday, December 25, 2017, 1:42:33 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Hank,???????? You have O2 tank inside sub??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 18:38:48 +0000 (UTC) ?Steve,I am not using an external regulator outside the hull, I don't see the need. ?Gamma used to have external O2 bottles and that system had the regulator inside the hull also.Hank ? ? On Monday, December 25, 2017, 10:50:55 AM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All, I am purchasing the system components for my K-250?s O2 system.? I am not a SCUBA diver so I lack some experience with regulators. I am considering sealed/balanced options for the first stage regulator (it will create an intermediate pressure downstream of the O2 tank (located external of the hull). These get pricey and I don?t really want to overspend for options I do not need (sealed vs. not, balanced vs. unbalanced, O2 ready vs. needing cleaned). ?? A couple of questions: ? ?- They sell regulators that are already suitable for 100% O2 use. How difficult to clean one that is not O2 ready? ? ?- The pediatric flow regulator (located in the hull) can directly handle the O2 tank pressure so I am wondering why we use the first stage regulators at all. ? ?- I assume to remove as many HP leak sources from within the hull especially since it is 100% O2 (safety). ?? Thoughts/recommendations? ?? Steve ?? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ?______________________________ _________________Personal_ Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles@ psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/ mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles__________________ _____________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 23:55:11 +0100 From: roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? ? ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service ? ? ? ? Questions Message-ID: ? ? ? ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Thank? you Alan,? thats why an scuba regulator is not necessary if we have a regulator and a flow meter, and they are using scuba tanks o scuba tank valves ( yoke or din ) to transport the? O2 and use scuba hoses and plumbing, not because they will carry air.now i understand,? on the deco bottles we use O2 , the pressure is around 145 psi, But we never down more than 100 ft thank`s 2017-12-25 23:11 GMT+01:00 Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs. org>: > Roberto, > within the 1atm hull of a submarine you have O2 coming in at the same rate > that your > body consumes it. The O2 consumed is breathed out as CO2 & this is scrubbed > away. So there is no pressure build up in the sub. If you have a 40% mix > of O2 & nitrogen > or any other gas then you will build up pressure inside the hull. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 26/12/2017, at 10:42 AM, roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote: > > Why are using puere oxigen, i? practice scuba diving and we use compresed > air, can use mix with 40% , but why puer oxigen on the sub? > > 2017-12-25 22:08 GMT+01:00 Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs. org>: > >> Hi Alan, >> >> Just to clarify, I was referring to HP Oxygen. For air I do bring HP into >> the hull and there is a 1st stage inside for the BIBS. >> >> Thanks, >> Alec >> >> On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 3:28 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote: >> >>> Steve, >>> another factor that may influence your decision is how you want to >>> set up a BIBS. If you have a divers regulator for emergency breathing >>> they >>> normally operate off 130 psi. Hmmm got me thinking now; if the emergency >>> regulator is operating off a line directly from the? 1st stage regulator >>> external >>> to the hull then it will see 130 psi above ambient. So at your max depth >>> it will >>> see 255 psi. >>> Conversely if you had a high pressure line to your sub & a regulator >>>? dropping >>> the pressure to 130psi, then if you needed to flood your sub to get out >>> the >>> regulator would only see 5 psi above ambient by the time the sub filled, >>> if you >>> were escaping from 250ft. >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 26/12/2017, at 8:56 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Steve, >>> >>> I use a 1st stage outside the hull. As you say the flow regulator can >>> handle the tank pressure, so it is not strictly necessary, but I do so as >>> an extra safety precaution to avoid bringing high pressure O2 inside. If >>> doing it again I would the reg directly on the tank, so that way all of the >>> tubing would see only low pressure. >>> >>> I'm using a 1st stage that is incredibly inexpensive ($60), but I'm >>> delighted with the quality and what is a big plus for me, it's a >>> particularly simple design. I've collected three of them by now, and not >>> any problem at all. >>> >>> https://www.piranhadivemfg. com/item/Balance-Piston-Din- First >>> -Stage--For-Pony--Stage- Bottles--Nitrox-Ready-11738 >>> >>> I do my own oxygen cleaning on tubing and penetrators, but prefer to buy >>> O2-clean regs and valves. You may notice this reg is advertised for Nitrox, >>> not pure oxygen. I spoke to the owner of the business selling it, and he >>> told me the cleaning and materials are identical for partial or full O2, >>> but that they advertise it only for partial O2 use as a legal CYA. >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> Alec >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Steve McQueen via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> All, I am purchasing the system components for my K-250?s O2 system.? I >>>> am not a SCUBA diver so I lack some experience with regulators. I am >>>> considering sealed/balanced options for the first stage regulator (it will >>>> create an intermediate pressure downstream of the O2 tank (located external >>>> of the hull). These get pricey and I don?t really want to overspend for >>>> options I do not need (sealed vs. not, balanced vs. unbalanced, O2 ready >>>> vs. needing cleaned). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> A couple of questions: >>>> >>>>? ? 1. They sell regulators that are already suitable for 100% O2 use. >>>>? ? How difficult to clean one that is not O2 ready? >>>>? ? 2. The pediatric flow regulator (located in the hull) can directly >>>>? ? handle the O2 tank pressure so I am wondering why we use the first stage >>>>? ? regulators at all. >>>>? ? ? ?1. I assume to remove as many HP leak sources from within the >>>>? ? ? ?hull especially since it is 100% O2 (safety). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thoughts/recommendations? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 54, Issue 54 ****************************** *********************** _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 25 23:17:52 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 12:17:52 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Another garage sub. In-Reply-To: <1514121698167.4763511.e6ab07bd998c496ab580a8ce4e8e2f23a4da2d32@spica.telekom.de> References: <201707122012.v6CKC1M4026074@whoweb.com> <876015577.121433.1500006786379@mail.yahoo.com> <299247195.387792.1500046221350@mail.yahoo.com> <25F4C0A8-9171-4258-A69C-E42F277D28F3@yahoo.com> <79A79BBF90D64C55A6B659458F5D4398@PhillPC> <875693f9-8fc9-112c-d89d-8a67e7faa61d@psubs.org> <8FFC7CC9-2D66-443F-8DE6-3A4F51E480F2@yahoo.com> <2297d5d4-748f-0919-1bc9-b6c72f5a048f@psubs.org> <2BF2A15C-C91D-45BC-8C7F-75C8288FA735@yahoo.com> <0c1001d2ff67$bf4cc700$3de65500$@gmail.com> <1500493718361.5518087.7dc53dd429f05b2c865f9b6711d247d0dfd8464b@spica.telekom.de> <1514121698167.4763511.e6ab07bd998c496ab580a8ce4e8e2f23a4da2d32@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <0356b361-3679-c40e-76a2-e2712fee8c44@archivale.com> The machine looks fascinating and well-crafted. Alas, my Swedish is rusty. Would you be willing to translate the machine's characteristics into English? Best, Marc de Piolenc On 12/24/2017 9:21 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > https://www.expressen.se/kvallsposten/birger-har-en-ubat-hemma-i-garaget/ > > The only info I found. vbr Carsten > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 26 04:56:34 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 22:56:34 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: River, I believe with O2 bottles additionally the volume of the tank emptying in to the hull ( have seen a burst disk go) is not allowed to raise the O2 % above a certain level. Not near my rules at the moment to quote them. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 26/12/2017, at 12:39 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, It's not necessarily against the rules. Internal gas bottles just need to be arranged so that the total leaking of any single bottle doesn't raise the cabin pressure more than 1atm, or enough to unseat the windows, etc. So you need lots of little bottles instead of 1 big one. > > River J Dolfi > Rdolfi7 at gmail.com > > On Dec 25, 2017 5:55 PM, "via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: > Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions > (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) > 2. Re: First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions > (roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 22:15:00 +0000 (UTC) > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service > Questions > Message-ID: <473365200.4312568.1514240100933 at mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Brian,Yes Gamma has the O2 supply inside the sub, it used to be both inside and outside when I got it. ? I know it against the rules but I prefer the O2 onboard for safety reasons. ?I think there is less risk of a tank rupture than a O2 line failure. ?If your stuck down there, I think the O2 and absorbent should be inside the sub. ?Elementary is set up for external, and for weight reasons probably will stay that way.Hank > On Monday, December 25, 2017, 1:42:33 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank,???????? You have O2 tank inside sub??Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions > Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 18:38:48 +0000 (UTC) > > Steve,I am not using an external regulator outside the hull, I don't see the need. ?Gamma used to have external O2 bottles and that system had the regulator inside the hull also.Hank > On Monday, December 25, 2017, 10:50:55 AM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > All, I am purchasing the system components for my K-250?s O2 system.? I am not a SCUBA diver so I lack some experience with regulators. I am considering sealed/balanced options for the first stage regulator (it will create an intermediate pressure downstream of the O2 tank (located external of the hull). These get pricey and I don?t really want to overspend for options I do not need (sealed vs. not, balanced vs. unbalanced, O2 ready vs. needing cleaned). > > ? > > A couple of questions: > > - They sell regulators that are already suitable for 100% O2 use. How difficult to clean one that is not O2 ready? > - The pediatric flow regulator (located in the hull) can directly handle the O2 tank pressure so I am wondering why we use the first stage regulators at all. > > - I assume to remove as many HP leak sources from within the hull especially since it is 100% O2 (safety). > > ? > > Thoughts/recommendations? > > ? > > Steve > > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 23:55:11 +0100 > From: roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service > Questions > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Thank you Alan, thats why an scuba regulator is not necessary if we have > a regulator and a flow meter, and they are using scuba tanks o scuba tank > valves ( yoke or din ) to transport the O2 and use scuba hoses and > plumbing, not because they will carry air.now i understand, on the deco > bottles we use O2 , the pressure is around 145 psi, But we never down more > than 100 ft thank`s > > 2017-12-25 23:11 GMT+01:00 Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > > > Roberto, > > within the 1atm hull of a submarine you have O2 coming in at the same rate > > that your > > body consumes it. The O2 consumed is breathed out as CO2 & this is scrubbed > > away. So there is no pressure build up in the sub. If you have a 40% mix > > of O2 & nitrogen > > or any other gas then you will build up pressure inside the hull. > > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On 26/12/2017, at 10:42 AM, roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Why are using puere oxigen, i practice scuba diving and we use compresed > > air, can use mix with 40% , but why puer oxigen on the sub? > > > > 2017-12-25 22:08 GMT+01:00 Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > > > >> Hi Alan, > >> > >> Just to clarify, I was referring to HP Oxygen. For air I do bring HP into > >> the hull and there is a 1st stage inside for the BIBS. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Alec > >> > >> On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 3:28 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> > >>> Steve, > >>> another factor that may influence your decision is how you want to > >>> set up a BIBS. If you have a divers regulator for emergency breathing > >>> they > >>> normally operate off 130 psi. Hmmm got me thinking now; if the emergency > >>> regulator is operating off a line directly from the 1st stage regulator > >>> external > >>> to the hull then it will see 130 psi above ambient. So at your max depth > >>> it will > >>> see 255 psi. > >>> Conversely if you had a high pressure line to your sub & a regulator > >>> dropping > >>> the pressure to 130psi, then if you needed to flood your sub to get out > >>> the > >>> regulator would only see 5 psi above ambient by the time the sub filled, > >>> if you > >>> were escaping from 250ft. > >>> Alan > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPad > >>> > >>> On 26/12/2017, at 8:56 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Steve, > >>> > >>> I use a 1st stage outside the hull. As you say the flow regulator can > >>> handle the tank pressure, so it is not strictly necessary, but I do so as > >>> an extra safety precaution to avoid bringing high pressure O2 inside. If > >>> doing it again I would the reg directly on the tank, so that way all of the > >>> tubing would see only low pressure. > >>> > >>> I'm using a 1st stage that is incredibly inexpensive ($60), but I'm > >>> delighted with the quality and what is a big plus for me, it's a > >>> particularly simple design. I've collected three of them by now, and not > >>> any problem at all. > >>> > >>> https://www.piranhadivemfg.com/item/Balance-Piston-Din-First > >>> -Stage--For-Pony--Stage-Bottles--Nitrox-Ready-11738 > >>> > >>> I do my own oxygen cleaning on tubing and penetrators, but prefer to buy > >>> O2-clean regs and valves. You may notice this reg is advertised for Nitrox, > >>> not pure oxygen. I spoke to the owner of the business selling it, and he > >>> told me the cleaning and materials are identical for partial or full O2, > >>> but that they advertise it only for partial O2 use as a legal CYA. > >>> > >>> > >>> Best, > >>> Alec > >>> > >>> On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Steve McQueen via > >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >>> > >>>> All, I am purchasing the system components for my K-250?s O2 system. I > >>>> am not a SCUBA diver so I lack some experience with regulators. I am > >>>> considering sealed/balanced options for the first stage regulator (it will > >>>> create an intermediate pressure downstream of the O2 tank (located external > >>>> of the hull). These get pricey and I don?t really want to overspend for > >>>> options I do not need (sealed vs. not, balanced vs. unbalanced, O2 ready > >>>> vs. needing cleaned). > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> A couple of questions: > >>>> > >>>> 1. They sell regulators that are already suitable for 100% O2 use. > >>>> How difficult to clean one that is not O2 ready? > >>>> 2. The pediatric flow regulator (located in the hull) can directly > >>>> handle the O2 tank pressure so I am wondering why we use the first stage > >>>> regulators at all. > >>>> 1. I assume to remove as many HP leak sources from within the > >>>> hull especially since it is 100% O2 (safety). > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Thoughts/recommendations? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Steve > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>> > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 54, Issue 54 > ***************************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 26 11:11:27 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 11:11:27 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Garage sub translation In-Reply-To: <0356b361-3679-c40e-76a2-e2712fee8c44@archivale.com> Message-ID: <1609397cdfb-1714-22748@webjas-vab173.srv.aolmail.net> Here's a partial translation of the first article Carsten posted. -Jim Todd Birger Holmberg has a home submarine in the garage. He got the idea of building it when he worked in the USA in the 50's. BJ?RNUM. Inside a garage excavated in a hill south of Bj?rnum lies Birger Holmberg's remarkable home-built - a submarine. Last he had it in the water was in the port of ?hus - and then people thought it was a new Russian spy boat.? ?They were expecting me to speak Russian when I lifted up my head, "said Birger as he stood in the garage next to his white vehicle.??Although it was launched in 1987, it has never been given a name. Birger and son Michael built it on their own without drawings.?(I think the reporter means they didn't buy plans and had to produce their own drawings.). "The idea began to take shape in the 50's when I worked in the United States and in my spare time was diving. Then my friend and I wanted to have our own safe boat. But it ended up being a submarine. The last time the vessel was in the water was 1994 when it sailed a couple of months in the port of ?hus. FACTS Length: Seven meters Weight: 10 tonnes Capacity: 3 passenger Engine: 150 hp truck diesel + electric motor running on ten car batteries. Depth: Up to 20 meters deep. Cost: unknown. ? ? In a message dated 12/25/2017 10:18:11 PM Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: ? The machine looks fascinating and well-crafted. Alas, my Swedish is rusty. Would you be willing to translate the machine's characteristics into English? Best, Marc de Piolenc On 12/24/2017 9:21 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > https://www.expressen.se/kvallsposten/birger-har-en-ubat-hemma-i-garaget/ > > The only info I found. vbr Carsten > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 26 18:14:38 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 12:14:38 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <350814B3-F0AE-48CE-BBC6-7D1EC027849E@yahoo.com> Just checked the GL rules on storage of O2 bottles inside the hull. As River says, if the contents escape it shouldn't be able to increase the pressure in the sub above 1 atm. But also it must not increase the O2 content of the air above 25% per volume. An O2 tank that could potentially increase the pressure in your sub by 1atm would increase the O2 content to 60.5%. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 26/12/2017, at 10:56 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > River, > I believe with O2 bottles additionally the volume of the tank emptying > in to the hull ( have seen a burst disk go) is not allowed to raise the O2 % > above a certain level. Not near my rules at the moment to quote them. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 26/12/2017, at 12:39 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hank, It's not necessarily against the rules. Internal gas bottles just need to be arranged so that the total leaking of any single bottle doesn't raise the cabin pressure more than 1atm, or enough to unseat the windows, etc. So you need lots of little bottles instead of 1 big one. >> >> River J Dolfi >> Rdolfi7 at gmail.com >> >> On Dec 25, 2017 5:55 PM, "via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions >> (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) >> 2. Re: First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions >> (roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 22:15:00 +0000 (UTC) >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service >> Questions >> Message-ID: <473365200.4312568.1514240100933 at mail.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Brian,Yes Gamma has the O2 supply inside the sub, it used to be both inside and outside when I got it. ? I know it against the rules but I prefer the O2 onboard for safety reasons. ?I think there is less risk of a tank rupture than a O2 line failure. ?If your stuck down there, I think the O2 and absorbent should be inside the sub. ?Elementary is set up for external, and for weight reasons probably will stay that way.Hank >> On Monday, December 25, 2017, 1:42:33 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hank,???????? You have O2 tank inside sub??Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions >> Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 18:38:48 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Steve,I am not using an external regulator outside the hull, I don't see the need. ?Gamma used to have external O2 bottles and that system had the regulator inside the hull also.Hank >> On Monday, December 25, 2017, 10:50:55 AM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> All, I am purchasing the system components for my K-250?s O2 system.? I am not a SCUBA diver so I lack some experience with regulators. I am considering sealed/balanced options for the first stage regulator (it will create an intermediate pressure downstream of the O2 tank (located external of the hull). These get pricey and I don?t really want to overspend for options I do not need (sealed vs. not, balanced vs. unbalanced, O2 ready vs. needing cleaned). >> >> ? >> >> A couple of questions: >> >> - They sell regulators that are already suitable for 100% O2 use. How difficult to clean one that is not O2 ready? >> - The pediatric flow regulator (located in the hull) can directly handle the O2 tank pressure so I am wondering why we use the first stage regulators at all. >> >> - I assume to remove as many HP leak sources from within the hull especially since it is 100% O2 (safety). >> >> ? >> >> Thoughts/recommendations? >> >> ? >> >> Steve >> >> ? >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 23:55:11 +0100 >> From: roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service >> Questions >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Thank you Alan, thats why an scuba regulator is not necessary if we have >> a regulator and a flow meter, and they are using scuba tanks o scuba tank >> valves ( yoke or din ) to transport the O2 and use scuba hoses and >> plumbing, not because they will carry air.now i understand, on the deco >> bottles we use O2 , the pressure is around 145 psi, But we never down more >> than 100 ft thank`s >> >> 2017-12-25 23:11 GMT+01:00 Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: >> >> > Roberto, >> > within the 1atm hull of a submarine you have O2 coming in at the same rate >> > that your >> > body consumes it. The O2 consumed is breathed out as CO2 & this is scrubbed >> > away. So there is no pressure build up in the sub. If you have a 40% mix >> > of O2 & nitrogen >> > or any other gas then you will build up pressure inside the hull. >> > Alan >> > >> > Sent from my iPad >> > >> > On 26/12/2017, at 10:42 AM, roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles < >> > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> > >> > Why are using puere oxigen, i practice scuba diving and we use compresed >> > air, can use mix with 40% , but why puer oxigen on the sub? >> > >> > 2017-12-25 22:08 GMT+01:00 Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: >> > >> >> Hi Alan, >> >> >> >> Just to clarify, I was referring to HP Oxygen. For air I do bring HP into >> >> the hull and there is a 1st stage inside for the BIBS. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Alec >> >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 3:28 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Steve, >> >>> another factor that may influence your decision is how you want to >> >>> set up a BIBS. If you have a divers regulator for emergency breathing >> >>> they >> >>> normally operate off 130 psi. Hmmm got me thinking now; if the emergency >> >>> regulator is operating off a line directly from the 1st stage regulator >> >>> external >> >>> to the hull then it will see 130 psi above ambient. So at your max depth >> >>> it will >> >>> see 255 psi. >> >>> Conversely if you had a high pressure line to your sub & a regulator >> >>> dropping >> >>> the pressure to 130psi, then if you needed to flood your sub to get out >> >>> the >> >>> regulator would only see 5 psi above ambient by the time the sub filled, >> >>> if you >> >>> were escaping from 250ft. >> >>> Alan >> >>> >> >>> Sent from my iPad >> >>> >> >>> On 26/12/2017, at 8:56 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Hi Steve, >> >>> >> >>> I use a 1st stage outside the hull. As you say the flow regulator can >> >>> handle the tank pressure, so it is not strictly necessary, but I do so as >> >>> an extra safety precaution to avoid bringing high pressure O2 inside. If >> >>> doing it again I would the reg directly on the tank, so that way all of the >> >>> tubing would see only low pressure. >> >>> >> >>> I'm using a 1st stage that is incredibly inexpensive ($60), but I'm >> >>> delighted with the quality and what is a big plus for me, it's a >> >>> particularly simple design. I've collected three of them by now, and not >> >>> any problem at all. >> >>> >> >>> https://www.piranhadivemfg.com/item/Balance-Piston-Din-First >> >>> -Stage--For-Pony--Stage-Bottles--Nitrox-Ready-11738 >> >>> >> >>> I do my own oxygen cleaning on tubing and penetrators, but prefer to buy >> >>> O2-clean regs and valves. You may notice this reg is advertised for Nitrox, >> >>> not pure oxygen. I spoke to the owner of the business selling it, and he >> >>> told me the cleaning and materials are identical for partial or full O2, >> >>> but that they advertise it only for partial O2 use as a legal CYA. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Best, >> >>> Alec >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Steve McQueen via >> >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> All, I am purchasing the system components for my K-250?s O2 system. I >> >>>> am not a SCUBA diver so I lack some experience with regulators. I am >> >>>> considering sealed/balanced options for the first stage regulator (it will >> >>>> create an intermediate pressure downstream of the O2 tank (located external >> >>>> of the hull). These get pricey and I don?t really want to overspend for >> >>>> options I do not need (sealed vs. not, balanced vs. unbalanced, O2 ready >> >>>> vs. needing cleaned). >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> A couple of questions: >> >>>> >> >>>> 1. They sell regulators that are already suitable for 100% O2 use. >> >>>> How difficult to clean one that is not O2 ready? >> >>>> 2. The pediatric flow regulator (located in the hull) can directly >> >>>> handle the O2 tank pressure so I am wondering why we use the first stage >> >>>> regulators at all. >> >>>> 1. I assume to remove as many HP leak sources from within the >> >>>> hull especially since it is 100% O2 (safety). >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Thoughts/recommendations? >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Steve >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 54, Issue 54 >> ***************************************************** >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 26 19:18:35 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 13:18:35 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions In-Reply-To: <350814B3-F0AE-48CE-BBC6-7D1EC027849E@yahoo.com> References: <350814B3-F0AE-48CE-BBC6-7D1EC027849E@yahoo.com> Message-ID: The thought occurred to me that you could estimate the air volume in your sub by releasing a certain amount of pressure from an air tank, measuring the increase in pressure inside the hull & then do some maths. I guess the accuracy depends on the accuracy of your contents gauge & barometer. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 27/12/2017, at 12:14 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Just checked the GL rules on storage of O2 bottles inside the hull. > As River says, if the contents escape it shouldn't be able to increase the pressure > in the sub above 1 atm. But also it must not increase the O2 content of the > air above 25% per volume. An O2 tank that could potentially increase the > pressure in your sub by 1atm would increase the O2 content to 60.5%. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 26/12/2017, at 10:56 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> River, >> I believe with O2 bottles additionally the volume of the tank emptying >> in to the hull ( have seen a burst disk go) is not allowed to raise the O2 % >> above a certain level. Not near my rules at the moment to quote them. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 26/12/2017, at 12:39 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hank, It's not necessarily against the rules. Internal gas bottles just need to be arranged so that the total leaking of any single bottle doesn't raise the cabin pressure more than 1atm, or enough to unseat the windows, etc. So you need lots of little bottles instead of 1 big one. >>> >>> River J Dolfi >>> Rdolfi7 at gmail.com >>> >>> On Dec 25, 2017 5:55 PM, "via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >>> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions >>> (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) >>> 2. Re: First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions >>> (roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles) >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 22:15:00 +0000 (UTC) >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service >>> Questions >>> Message-ID: <473365200.4312568.1514240100933 at mail.yahoo.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>> >>> Brian,Yes Gamma has the O2 supply inside the sub, it used to be both inside and outside when I got it. ? I know it against the rules but I prefer the O2 onboard for safety reasons. ?I think there is less risk of a tank rupture than a O2 line failure. ?If your stuck down there, I think the O2 and absorbent should be inside the sub. ?Elementary is set up for external, and for weight reasons probably will stay that way.Hank >>> On Monday, December 25, 2017, 1:42:33 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hank,???????? You have O2 tank inside sub??Brian >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions >>> Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 18:38:48 +0000 (UTC) >>> >>> Steve,I am not using an external regulator outside the hull, I don't see the need. ?Gamma used to have external O2 bottles and that system had the regulator inside the hull also.Hank >>> On Monday, December 25, 2017, 10:50:55 AM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> All, I am purchasing the system components for my K-250?s O2 system.? I am not a SCUBA diver so I lack some experience with regulators. I am considering sealed/balanced options for the first stage regulator (it will create an intermediate pressure downstream of the O2 tank (located external of the hull). These get pricey and I don?t really want to overspend for options I do not need (sealed vs. not, balanced vs. unbalanced, O2 ready vs. needing cleaned). >>> >>> ? >>> >>> A couple of questions: >>> >>> - They sell regulators that are already suitable for 100% O2 use. How difficult to clean one that is not O2 ready? >>> - The pediatric flow regulator (located in the hull) can directly handle the O2 tank pressure so I am wondering why we use the first stage regulators at all. >>> >>> - I assume to remove as many HP leak sources from within the hull especially since it is 100% O2 (safety). >>> >>> ? >>> >>> Thoughts/recommendations? >>> >>> ? >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> ? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 23:55:11 +0100 >>> From: roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service >>> Questions >>> Message-ID: >>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>> >>> Thank you Alan, thats why an scuba regulator is not necessary if we have >>> a regulator and a flow meter, and they are using scuba tanks o scuba tank >>> valves ( yoke or din ) to transport the O2 and use scuba hoses and >>> plumbing, not because they will carry air.now i understand, on the deco >>> bottles we use O2 , the pressure is around 145 psi, But we never down more >>> than 100 ft thank`s >>> >>> 2017-12-25 23:11 GMT+01:00 Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: >>> >>> > Roberto, >>> > within the 1atm hull of a submarine you have O2 coming in at the same rate >>> > that your >>> > body consumes it. The O2 consumed is breathed out as CO2 & this is scrubbed >>> > away. So there is no pressure build up in the sub. If you have a 40% mix >>> > of O2 & nitrogen >>> > or any other gas then you will build up pressure inside the hull. >>> > Alan >>> > >>> > Sent from my iPad >>> > >>> > On 26/12/2017, at 10:42 AM, roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles < >>> > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> > >>> > Why are using puere oxigen, i practice scuba diving and we use compresed >>> > air, can use mix with 40% , but why puer oxigen on the sub? >>> > >>> > 2017-12-25 22:08 GMT+01:00 Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>> > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: >>> > >>> >> Hi Alan, >>> >> >>> >> Just to clarify, I was referring to HP Oxygen. For air I do bring HP into >>> >> the hull and there is a 1st stage inside for the BIBS. >>> >> >>> >> Thanks, >>> >> Alec >>> >> >>> >> On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 3:28 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>> >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> Steve, >>> >>> another factor that may influence your decision is how you want to >>> >>> set up a BIBS. If you have a divers regulator for emergency breathing >>> >>> they >>> >>> normally operate off 130 psi. Hmmm got me thinking now; if the emergency >>> >>> regulator is operating off a line directly from the 1st stage regulator >>> >>> external >>> >>> to the hull then it will see 130 psi above ambient. So at your max depth >>> >>> it will >>> >>> see 255 psi. >>> >>> Conversely if you had a high pressure line to your sub & a regulator >>> >>> dropping >>> >>> the pressure to 130psi, then if you needed to flood your sub to get out >>> >>> the >>> >>> regulator would only see 5 psi above ambient by the time the sub filled, >>> >>> if you >>> >>> were escaping from 250ft. >>> >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> >>> >>> On 26/12/2017, at 8:56 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>> >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Steve, >>> >>> >>> >>> I use a 1st stage outside the hull. As you say the flow regulator can >>> >>> handle the tank pressure, so it is not strictly necessary, but I do so as >>> >>> an extra safety precaution to avoid bringing high pressure O2 inside. If >>> >>> doing it again I would the reg directly on the tank, so that way all of the >>> >>> tubing would see only low pressure. >>> >>> >>> >>> I'm using a 1st stage that is incredibly inexpensive ($60), but I'm >>> >>> delighted with the quality and what is a big plus for me, it's a >>> >>> particularly simple design. I've collected three of them by now, and not >>> >>> any problem at all. >>> >>> >>> >>> https://www.piranhadivemfg.com/item/Balance-Piston-Din-First >>> >>> -Stage--For-Pony--Stage-Bottles--Nitrox-Ready-11738 >>> >>> >>> >>> I do my own oxygen cleaning on tubing and penetrators, but prefer to buy >>> >>> O2-clean regs and valves. You may notice this reg is advertised for Nitrox, >>> >>> not pure oxygen. I spoke to the owner of the business selling it, and he >>> >>> told me the cleaning and materials are identical for partial or full O2, >>> >>> but that they advertise it only for partial O2 use as a legal CYA. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Steve McQueen via >>> >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> All, I am purchasing the system components for my K-250?s O2 system. I >>> >>>> am not a SCUBA diver so I lack some experience with regulators. I am >>> >>>> considering sealed/balanced options for the first stage regulator (it will >>> >>>> create an intermediate pressure downstream of the O2 tank (located external >>> >>>> of the hull). These get pricey and I don?t really want to overspend for >>> >>>> options I do not need (sealed vs. not, balanced vs. unbalanced, O2 ready >>> >>>> vs. needing cleaned). >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> A couple of questions: >>> >>>> >>> >>>> 1. They sell regulators that are already suitable for 100% O2 use. >>> >>>> How difficult to clean one that is not O2 ready? >>> >>>> 2. The pediatric flow regulator (located in the hull) can directly >>> >>>> handle the O2 tank pressure so I am wondering why we use the first stage >>> >>>> regulators at all. >>> >>>> 1. I assume to remove as many HP leak sources from within the >>> >>>> hull especially since it is 100% O2 (safety). >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Thoughts/recommendations? >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Steve >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >>> >> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> > >>> > >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Subject: Digest Footer >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 54, Issue 54 >>> ***************************************************** >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 26 20:11:20 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 01:11:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions In-Reply-To: References: <350814B3-F0AE-48CE-BBC6-7D1EC027849E@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1277265863.4772517.1514337080216@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,A new spin on the Archimedes .principal?Hank? On Tuesday, December 26, 2017, 5:19:02 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: The thought occurred to me that you could estimate the air volume inyour sub by releasing a certain amount of pressure from an air tank,measuring the increase in pressure inside the hull & then do some maths.I guess the accuracy depends on the accuracy of your contents gauge &?barometer.Alan Sent from my iPad On 27/12/2017, at 12:14 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just checked the GL rules on storage of O2 bottles inside the hull.As River says, if the contents escape it shouldn't be able to increase the pressure?in the sub above 1 atm. But also it must not increase the O2 content of theair above 25% per volume. An O2 tank that could potentially increase the?pressure in your sub by 1atm would increase the O2 content to ?60.5%.Alan Sent from my iPad On 26/12/2017, at 10:56 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: River,I believe with O2 bottles additionally the volume of the tank emptyingin to the hull ( have seen a burst disk go) is not allowed to raise the O2 %above a certain level. Not near my rules at the moment to quote them.Alan? Sent from my iPad On 26/12/2017, at 12:39 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, It's not necessarily against the rules. Internal gas bottles just need to be arranged so that the total leaking of any single bottle doesn't raise the cabin pressure more than 1atm, or enough to unseat the windows, etc. So you need lots of little bottles instead of 1 big one.? River J Dolfi Rdolfi7 at gmail.com On Dec 25, 2017 5:55 PM, "via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to ? ? ? ? personal_submersibles at psubs. org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ? ? ? ? http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ? ? ? ? personal_submersibles-request@ psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at ? ? ? ? personal_submersibles-owner@ psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: ? ?1. Re: First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions ? ? ? (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) ? ?2. Re: First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions ? ? ? (roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles) ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ---------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 22:15:00 +0000 (UTC) From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? ? To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service ? ? ? ? Questions Message-ID: <473365200.4312568. 1514240100933 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" ?Brian,Yes Gamma has the O2 supply inside the sub, it used to be both inside and outside when I got it. ? I know it against the rules but I prefer the O2 onboard for safety reasons. ?I think there is less risk of a tank rupture than a O2 line failure. ?If your stuck down there, I think the O2 and absorbent should be inside the sub. ?Elementary is set up for external, and for weight reasons probably will stay that way.Hank ? ? On Monday, December 25, 2017, 1:42:33 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Hank,???????? You have O2 tank inside sub??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service Questions Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 18:38:48 +0000 (UTC) ?Steve,I am not using an external regulator outside the hull, I don't see the need. ?Gamma used to have external O2 bottles and that system had the regulator inside the hull also.Hank ? ? On Monday, December 25, 2017, 10:50:55 AM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All, I am purchasing the system components for my K-250?s O2 system.? I am not a SCUBA diver so I lack some experience with regulators. I am considering sealed/balanced options for the first stage regulator (it will create an intermediate pressure downstream of the O2 tank (located external of the hull). These get pricey and I don?t really want to overspend for options I do not need (sealed vs. not, balanced vs. unbalanced, O2 ready vs. needing cleaned). ?? A couple of questions: ? ?- They sell regulators that are already suitable for 100% O2 use. How difficult to clean one that is not O2 ready? ? ?- The pediatric flow regulator (located in the hull) can directly handle the O2 tank pressure so I am wondering why we use the first stage regulators at all. ? ?- I assume to remove as many HP leak sources from within the hull especially since it is 100% O2 (safety). ?? Thoughts/recommendations? ?? Steve ?? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ?______________________________ _________________Personal_ Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles@ psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/ mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles__________________ _____________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 23:55:11 +0100 From: roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? ? ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] First Stage Regulator for O2 service ? ? ? ? Questions Message-ID: ? ? ? ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Thank? you Alan,? thats why an scuba regulator is not necessary if we have a regulator and a flow meter, and they are using scuba tanks o scuba tank valves ( yoke or din ) to transport the? O2 and use scuba hoses and plumbing, not because they will carry air.now i understand,? on the deco bottles we use O2 , the pressure is around 145 psi, But we never down more than 100 ft thank`s 2017-12-25 23:11 GMT+01:00 Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs. org>: > Roberto, > within the 1atm hull of a submarine you have O2 coming in at the same rate > that your > body consumes it. The O2 consumed is breathed out as CO2 & this is scrubbed > away. So there is no pressure build up in the sub. If you have a 40% mix > of O2 & nitrogen > or any other gas then you will build up pressure inside the hull. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 26/12/2017, at 10:42 AM, roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote: > > Why are using puere oxigen, i? practice scuba diving and we use compresed > air, can use mix with 40% , but why puer oxigen on the sub? > > 2017-12-25 22:08 GMT+01:00 Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs. org>: > >> Hi Alan, >> >> Just to clarify, I was referring to HP Oxygen. For air I do bring HP into >> the hull and there is a 1st stage inside for the BIBS. >> >> Thanks, >> Alec >> >> On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 3:28 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote: >> >>> Steve, >>> another factor that may influence your decision is how you want to >>> set up a BIBS. If you have a divers regulator for emergency breathing >>> they >>> normally operate off 130 psi. Hmmm got me thinking now; if the emergency >>> regulator is operating off a line directly from the? 1st stage regulator >>> external >>> to the hull then it will see 130 psi above ambient. So at your max depth >>> it will >>> see 255 psi. >>> Conversely if you had a high pressure line to your sub & a regulator >>>? dropping >>> the pressure to 130psi, then if you needed to flood your sub to get out >>> the >>> regulator would only see 5 psi above ambient by the time the sub filled, >>> if you >>> were escaping from 250ft. >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 26/12/2017, at 8:56 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Steve, >>> >>> I use a 1st stage outside the hull. As you say the flow regulator can >>> handle the tank pressure, so it is not strictly necessary, but I do so as >>> an extra safety precaution to avoid bringing high pressure O2 inside. If >>> doing it again I would the reg directly on the tank, so that way all of the >>> tubing would see only low pressure. >>> >>> I'm using a 1st stage that is incredibly inexpensive ($60), but I'm >>> delighted with the quality and what is a big plus for me, it's a >>> particularly simple design. I've collected three of them by now, and not >>> any problem at all. >>> >>> https://www.piranhadivemfg. com/item/Balance-Piston-Din- First >>> -Stage--For-Pony--Stage- Bottles--Nitrox-Ready-11738 >>> >>> I do my own oxygen cleaning on tubing and penetrators, but prefer to buy >>> O2-clean regs and valves. You may notice this reg is advertised for Nitrox, >>> not pure oxygen. I spoke to the owner of the business selling it, and he >>> told me the cleaning and materials are identical for partial or full O2, >>> but that they advertise it only for partial O2 use as a legal CYA. >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> Alec >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Steve McQueen via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> All, I am purchasing the system components for my K-250?s O2 system.? I >>>> am not a SCUBA diver so I lack some experience with regulators. I am >>>> considering sealed/balanced options for the first stage regulator (it will >>>> create an intermediate pressure downstream of the O2 tank (located external >>>> of the hull). These get pricey and I don?t really want to overspend for >>>> options I do not need (sealed vs. not, balanced vs. unbalanced, O2 ready >>>> vs. needing cleaned). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> A couple of questions: >>>> >>>>? ? 1. They sell regulators that are already suitable for 100% O2 use. >>>>? ? How difficult to clean one that is not O2 ready? >>>>? ? 2. The pediatric flow regulator (located in the hull) can directly >>>>? ? handle the O2 tank pressure so I am wondering why we use the first stage >>>>? ? regulators at all. >>>>? ? ? ?1. I assume to remove as many HP leak sources from within the >>>>? ? ? ?hull especially since it is 100% O2 (safety). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thoughts/recommendations? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 54, Issue 54 ****************************** *********************** _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 27 04:01:29 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 17:01:29 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Garage sub translation In-Reply-To: <1609397cdfb-1714-22748@webjas-vab173.srv.aolmail.net> References: <1609397cdfb-1714-22748@webjas-vab173.srv.aolmail.net> Message-ID: Many thanks! Marc de Piolenc On 12/27/2017 12:11 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > /Here's a partial translation of the first article Carsten posted./ > /-Jim Todd/ > > Birger Holmberg has a home submarine in the garage. He got the idea of > building it when he worked in the USA in the 50's. > > BJ?RNUM. Inside a garage excavated in a hill south of Bj?rnum lies > Birger Holmberg's remarkable home-built - a submarine. Last he had it in > the water was in the port of ?hus - and then people thought it was a new > Russian spy boat.?They were expecting me to speak Russian when I lifted > up my head, "said Birger as he stood in the garage next to his white > vehicle.Although it was launched in 1987, it has never been given a name. > > Birger and son Michael built it on their own without drawings. /(I think > the reporter means they didn't buy plans and had to produce their own > drawings.)./ > > "The idea began to take shape in the 50's when I worked in the United > States and in my spare time was diving. Then my friend and I wanted to > have our own safe boat. But it ended up being a submarine. > The last time the vessel was in the water was 1994 when it sailed a > couple of months in the port of ?hus. > > FACTS > Length: Seven meters Weight: 10 tonnes Capacity: 3 passenger Engine: 150 > hp truck diesel + electric motor running on ten car batteries. Depth: Up > to 20 meters deep. Cost: unknown. > > > > In a message dated 12/25/2017 10:18:11 PM Central Standard Time, > personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > > The machine looks fascinating and well-crafted. Alas, my Swedish is > rusty. Would you be willing to translate the machine's > characteristics into English? Best, Marc de Piolenc On 12/24/2017 > 9:21 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > https://www.expressen.se/kvallsposten/birger-har-en-ubat-hemma-i-garaget/ > > > The only info I found. vbr Carsten > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- > Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: > http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): > http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): > http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: > http://massflow.archivale.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 27 08:19:23 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 13:19:23 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Buckling Link Message-ID: Found this interesting article. https://pveng.com/home/asme-code-design/combined-loading/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 29 18:14:00 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 18:14:00 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] High Pressure Air System Thread Sealants Message-ID: <002001d380fa$b79f0df0$26dd29d0$@indy.rr.com> All, I am starting to plumb together my K250 HP Air distribution system (3,500 psi). Looking for feedback. For the NPT connections I am choosing a LOCTITE product: I've read Teflon tape technically isn't the best for HP applications but I've seen it used. Anyone have a proven best practice? Thanks, Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 44695 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 29 18:50:22 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 15:50:22 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] High Pressure Air System Thread Sealants In-Reply-To: V3rCe3iQGDY8NV3rDe4yac References: V3rCe3iQGDY8NV3rDe4yac Message-ID: <004d01d380ff$cb196010$614c2030$@telus.net> SportSub uses Teflon tape, at least on my sub. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, December 29, 2017 3:14 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] High Pressure Air System Thread Sealants All, I am starting to plumb together my K250 HP Air distribution system (3,500 psi). Looking for feedback. For the NPT connections I am choosing a LOCTITE product: I've read Teflon tape technically isn't the best for HP applications but I've seen it used. Anyone have a proven best practice? Thanks, Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 10258 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 29 19:02:14 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 00:02:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] High Pressure Air System Thread Sealants In-Reply-To: <002001d380fa$b79f0df0$26dd29d0$@indy.rr.com> References: <002001d380fa$b79f0df0$26dd29d0$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: <1682144048.6273339.1514592134420@mail.yahoo.com> Steve,Tread tape has worked reliably for me for many years and projects. ?I tried a liquid product one time and it was garbage.Hank On Friday, December 29, 2017, 4:14:23 PM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All, I am starting to plumb together my K250 HP Air distribution system (3,500 psi). Looking for feedback. For the NPT connections I am choosing a LOCTITE product: I?ve read Teflon tape technically isn?t the best for HP applications but I?ve seen it used. ?Anyone have a proven best practice? Thanks, Steve _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 44695 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 29 19:56:47 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 16:56:47 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] High Pressure Air System Thread Sealants Message-ID: <20171229165647.2D1FF05B@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 29 20:34:59 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 14:34:59 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] High Pressure Air System Thread Sealants In-Reply-To: <20171229165647.2D1FF05B@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20171229165647.2D1FF05B@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: <184001d3810e$6a505090$3ef0f1b0$@gmail.com> Like Brian and Hank, Thread tape 2-1/2 turns and anti-seize. Don?t put on too much tape. Don?t leave tape hanging over the thread end as it will end up in the system. Start about ? a thread back. I tried Loctite many years ago with bad results but that was with natural gas. We do high pressure gas for a living. White tape for air and yellow for gas. Yellow is generally thicker. Some cheap white tapes are really thin so compensate. https://northerncal.swagelok.com/blog/bid/88017/skill-applying-ptfe-tape-to-tapered-pipe-threads Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 30 December 2017 1:57 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] High Pressure Air System Thread Sealants Steve, I used just Teflon tape and I had some tiny leaks. I would recommend using the Teflon tape and also a viscous product such as Never-seize. I had to back everything out and re-do all my fittings just for piece of mind. In addition the Never-seize is good for stainless to stainless fittings. I didn't have any leaks after that. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] High Pressure Air System Thread Sealants Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 00:02:14 +0000 (UTC) Steve, Tread tape has worked reliably for me for many years and projects. I tried a liquid product one time and it was garbage. Hank On Friday, December 29, 2017, 4:14:23 PM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All, I am starting to plumb together my K250 HP Air distribution system (3,500 psi). Looking for feedback. For the NPT connections I am choosing a LOCTITE product: I?ve read Teflon tape technically isn?t the best for HP applications but I?ve seen it used. Anyone have a proven best practice? Thanks, Steve _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 29 21:19:25 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 21:19:25 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] High Pressure Air System Thread Sealants Message-ID: <201712300222.vBU2M3jT009696@whoweb.com> I learned about anti-seize from my navy days. I believe I have put a little on every external (to the hull) thread on this project. Sent from my Verizon Motorola Smartphone On Dec 29, 2017 7:56 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Steve, I used just Teflon tape and I had some tiny leaks. I would recommend using the Teflon tape and also a viscous product such as Never-seize. I had to back everything out and re-do all my fittings just for piece of mind. In addition the Never-seize is good for stainless to stainless fittings. I didn't have any leaks after that. > Brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] High Pressure Air System Thread Sealants > Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 00:02:14 +0000 (UTC) > > Steve, > Tread tape has worked reliably for me for many years and projects. I tried a liquid product one time and it was garbage. > Hank > > On Friday, December 29, 2017, 4:14:23 PM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > All, I am starting to plumb together my K250 HP Air distribution system (3,500 psi). Looking for feedback. > > For the NPT connections I am choosing a LOCTITE product: > > I?ve read Teflon tape technically isn?t the best for HP applications but I?ve seen it used. Anyone have a proven best practice? > > Thanks, > > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 29 23:04:28 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 17:04:28 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] High Pressure Air System Thread Sealants In-Reply-To: <184001d3810e$6a505090$3ef0f1b0$@gmail.com> References: <20171229165647.2D1FF05B@m0117458.ppops.net> <184001d3810e$6a505090$3ef0f1b0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <89BFD8E0-21AC-478A-887A-5DF6D88BAC37@yahoo.com> Noticed when visiting Nuytco that they used thread tape on their O2 supply to their bellows add system. Wondered about it at the time as I thought it would be inflammable. There is a high pressure gauge showing here so looks like they are using tape on the high pressure O2 line. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 30/12/2017, at 2:34 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Like Brian and Hank, > Thread tape 2-1/2 turns and anti-seize. Don?t put on too much tape. Don?t leave tape hanging over the thread end as it will end up in the system. Start about ? a thread back. > I tried Loctite many years ago with bad results but that was with natural gas. We do high pressure gas for a living. White tape for air and yellow for gas. Yellow is generally thicker. Some cheap white tapes are really thin so compensate. > https://northerncal.swagelok.com/blog/bid/88017/skill-applying-ptfe-tape-to-tapered-pipe-threads > > Hugh > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Saturday, 30 December 2017 1:57 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] High Pressure Air System Thread Sealants > > Steve, I used just Teflon tape and I had some tiny leaks. I would recommend using the Teflon tape and also a viscous product such as Never-seize. I had to back everything out and re-do all my fittings just for piece of mind. In addition the Never-seize is good for stainless to stainless fittings. I didn't have any leaks after that. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] High Pressure Air System Thread Sealants > Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 00:02:14 +0000 (UTC) > > Steve, > Tread tape has worked reliably for me for many years and projects. I tried a liquid product one time and it was garbage. > Hank > > On Friday, December 29, 2017, 4:14:23 PM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > All, I am starting to plumb together my K250 HP Air distribution system (3,500 psi). Looking for feedback. > > For the NPT connections I am choosing a LOCTITE product: > > > I?ve read Teflon tape technically isn?t the best for HP applications but I?ve seen it used. Anyone have a proven best practice? > > Thanks, > > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 105084 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 30 01:08:37 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 19:08:37 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism Message-ID: <20D4027B-3EBE-4B41-8F87-99254FDD246F@yahoo.com> Just doing some evening reading of the GL rules & noticed this rule about hatches.... "the closing mechanism is to be designed in such a way that opening of the hatch is only possible after pressure equalisation" I am wondering what options there are for achieving this. Has anyone had experience of the hatch opening with explosive force due to internal over-pressure not being equalised. Alan Sent from my iPad From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 30 07:49:42 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 12:49:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism In-Reply-To: <20D4027B-3EBE-4B41-8F87-99254FDD246F@yahoo.com> References: <20D4027B-3EBE-4B41-8F87-99254FDD246F@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <493676334.6409936.1514638182287@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,You could have a lock that prevents the hatch mechanism from opening that is activated by turning the hatch vent. ?I always vent before I one the hatch anyways.Hank On Friday, December 29, 2017, 11:09:03 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just doing some evening reading of the GL rules & noticed this rule about hatches.... "the closing mechanism is to be designed in such a way that opening of the hatch is only possible after pressure equalisation" I am wondering what options there are for achieving this. Has anyone had experience of the hatch opening with explosive force due to internal over-pressure not being equalised. Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 30 07:53:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 12:53:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] High Pressure Air System Thread Sealants In-Reply-To: <89BFD8E0-21AC-478A-887A-5DF6D88BAC37@yahoo.com> References: <20171229165647.2D1FF05B@m0117458.ppops.net> <184001d3810e$6a505090$3ef0f1b0$@gmail.com> <89BFD8E0-21AC-478A-887A-5DF6D88BAC37@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <365423960.6408236.1514638433177@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,You can buy O2 tape that is green, but you can use white tape if the tape does not protrude past the treads. ?At lest that is what I read. ?I have used the green stuff, but typically O2 fittings need nothing due to the close tolerance machining of O2 parts.Hank On Friday, December 29, 2017, 9:05:01 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Noticed when visiting Nuytco that they used thread tape on their O2supply to their bellows add system. Wondered about it at the time as I thought it would be inflammable. There is a high pressure gauge showing here so looks like they are using tape on the high pressure O2 line.Alan Sent from my iPad On 30/12/2017, at 2:34 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv6943891047 #yiv6943891047 -- _filtered #yiv6943891047 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv6943891047 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} _filtered #yiv6943891047 {panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}#yiv6943891047 #yiv6943891047 p.yiv6943891047MsoNormal, #yiv6943891047 li.yiv6943891047MsoNormal, #yiv6943891047 div.yiv6943891047MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv6943891047 a:link, #yiv6943891047 span.yiv6943891047MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6943891047 a:visited, #yiv6943891047 span.yiv6943891047MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6943891047 p {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv6943891047 span.yiv6943891047EmailStyle18 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv6943891047 .yiv6943891047MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv6943891047 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv6943891047 div.yiv6943891047WordSection1 {}#yiv6943891047 Like Brian and Hank, Thread tape 2-1/2 turns and anti-seize. Don?t put on too much tape. Don?t leave tape hanging over the thread end as it will end up in the system.? Start about ? a thread back. I tried Loctite many years ago with bad results but that was with natural gas.? We do high pressure gas for a living. White tape for air and yellow for gas.? Yellow is generally thicker.? Some cheap white tapes are really thin so compensate. https://northerncal.swagelok.com/blog/bid/88017/skill-applying-ptfe-tape-to-tapered-pipe-threads ? Hugh ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 30 December 2017 1:57 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] High Pressure Air System Thread Sealants ? Steve,?? I used just Teflon tape and I had some tiny leaks.? I would recommend using the Teflon tape and also a viscous product such as Never-seize.? I had to back everything out and re-do all my fittings just for piece of mind.? In addition the Never-seize is good for stainless to stainless fittings.? I didn't have any leaks after that. ? Brian ? ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] High Pressure Air System Thread Sealants Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 00:02:14 +0000 (UTC) Steve, Tread tape has worked reliably for me for many years and projects. ?I tried a liquid product one time and it was garbage. Hank ? On Friday, December 29, 2017, 4:14:23 PM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? All, I am starting to plumb together my K250 HP Air distribution system (3,500 psi). Looking for feedback. For the NPT connections I am choosing a LOCTITE product: I?ve read Teflon tape technically isn?t the best for HP applications but I?ve seen it used. ?Anyone have a proven best practice? Thanks, Steve _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 105084 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 30 07:54:05 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 23:54:05 +1100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] High Pressure Air System Thread Sealants In-Reply-To: <89BFD8E0-21AC-478A-887A-5DF6D88BAC37@yahoo.com> References: <20171229165647.2D1FF05B@m0117458.ppops.net> <184001d3810e$6a505090$3ef0f1b0$@gmail.com> <89BFD8E0-21AC-478A-887A-5DF6D88BAC37@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi guys, common industry practice here in Australia is to use Teflon tape for HP tapered thread connections, including for HP oxygen (but using oxygen clean tape). Using sealant alone I can tell you from personal experience it's very hard to get a bubble-tight seal and stainless on stainless threads will gall up more often than not. I use thin oxygen clean tape from Western Enterprises (USA) and do 6-10 tight wraps. Cheers, Steve Fordyce On 30 Dec 2017 3:05 pm, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Noticed when visiting Nuytco that they used thread tape on their O2 > supply to their bellows add system. Wondered about it at the time as I > thought it would be inflammable. There is a high pressure gauge showing > here so looks like they are using tape on the high pressure O2 line. > Alan > > [image: image1.JPG] > > Sent from my iPad > > On 30/12/2017, at 2:34 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Like Brian and Hank, > > Thread tape 2-1/2 turns and anti-seize. Don?t put on too much tape. Don?t > leave tape hanging over the thread end as it will end up in the system. > Start about ? a thread back. > > I tried Loctite many years ago with bad results but that was with natural > gas. We do high pressure gas for a living. White tape for air and yellow > for gas. Yellow is generally thicker. Some cheap white tapes are really > thin so compensate. > > https://northerncal.swagelok.com/blog/bid/88017/skill- > applying-ptfe-tape-to-tapered-pipe-threads > > > > Hugh > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org ] *On Behalf > Of *Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Saturday, 30 December 2017 1:57 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] High Pressure Air System Thread Sealants > > > > Steve, I used just Teflon tape and I had some tiny leaks. I would > recommend using the Teflon tape and also a viscous product such as > Never-seize. I had to back everything out and re-do all my fittings just > for piece of mind. In addition the Never-seize is good for stainless to > stainless fittings. I didn't have any leaks after that. > > > > Brian > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] High Pressure Air System Thread Sealants > Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 00:02:14 +0000 (UTC) > > Steve, > > Tread tape has worked reliably for me for many years and projects. I > tried a liquid product one time and it was garbage. > > Hank > > > > On Friday, December 29, 2017, 4:14:23 PM MST, Steve McQueen via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > All, I am starting to plumb together my K250 HP Air distribution system > (3,500 psi). Looking for feedback. > > For the NPT connections I am choosing a LOCTITE product: > > I?ve read Teflon tape technically isn?t the best for HP applications but > I?ve seen it used. Anyone have a proven best practice? > > Thanks, > > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 105084 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 30 15:50:52 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 09:50:52 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism In-Reply-To: <493676334.6409936.1514638182287@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20D4027B-3EBE-4B41-8F87-99254FDD246F@yahoo.com> <493676334.6409936.1514638182287@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <96F6EDF8-D0BC-4C7F-BFF6-1524F1DF9E56@yahoo.com> Thanks Hank, will have to think on this one. I want to let a novice dive my sub, so the system needs to be bullet proof. If I have some sort of lock mechanism I would need to be able to bypass it if I needed to escape at depth. The pressure at depth would be apposing the manual operation of the overpressure valve. You could flood the sub first but normally the hatch is un-dogged prior to the hull equalizing. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 31/12/2017, at 1:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > You could have a lock that prevents the hatch mechanism from opening that is activated by turning the hatch vent. I always vent before I one the hatch anyways. > Hank > > On Friday, December 29, 2017, 11:09:03 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Just doing some evening reading of the GL rules & noticed this rule about hatches.... > "the closing mechanism is to be designed in such a way that opening of > the hatch is only possible after pressure equalisation" > I am wondering what options there are for achieving this. > Has anyone had experience of the hatch opening with explosive force due > to internal over-pressure not being equalised. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 30 16:16:32 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 13:16:32 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism In-Reply-To: VO6HeoVaJTqmMVO6IeNdEb References: <20D4027B-3EBE-4B41-8F87-99254FDD246F@yahoo.com> <493676334.6409936.1514638182287@mail.yahoo.com> VO6HeoVaJTqmMVO6IeNdEb Message-ID: <000c01d381b3$79d0ea20$6d72be60$@telus.net> Just to add a complication to the project, you will need to have the vent accessible by someone on the outside too, in case the sub has surfaced but the operator is incapacitated. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 12:51 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism Thanks Hank, will have to think on this one. I want to let a novice dive my sub, so the system needs to be bullet proof. If I have some sort of lock mechanism I would need to be able to bypass it if I needed to escape at depth. The pressure at depth would be apposing the manual operation of the overpressure valve. You could flood the sub first but normally the hatch is un-dogged prior to the hull equalizing. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 31/12/2017, at 1:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Alan, You could have a lock that prevents the hatch mechanism from opening that is activated by turning the hatch vent. I always vent before I one the hatch anyways. Hank On Friday, December 29, 2017, 11:09:03 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Just doing some evening reading of the GL rules & noticed this rule about hatches.... "the closing mechanism is to be designed in such a way that opening of the hatch is only possible after pressure equalisation" I am wondering what options there are for achieving this. Has anyone had experience of the hatch opening with explosive force due to internal over-pressure not being equalised. Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 30 17:20:15 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 14:20:15 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism Message-ID: <2134960271.6860.1514672415770@wamui-albus.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 30 17:23:03 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 14:23:03 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism Message-ID: <1868846126.6885.1514672584184@wamui-albus.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 30 17:47:29 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 11:47:29 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism In-Reply-To: <1868846126.6885.1514672584184@wamui-albus.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <1868846126.6885.1514672584184@wamui-albus.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <88DC545A-C81E-43F3-92B7-0625AC6FEDD1@yahoo.com> Ian, Tim, yes I was thinking about a cam type latch dog as you described. The automatic pressure relief valve that Emile has would automatically reduce any pressure in the hull to the equalisers spring closure pressure, maybe 2psi; then if you forgot to manually press this valve to fully equalise, any internal overpressure would be released as the hatch dog incrementally released the hatch. I guess the only reason for this law is to prevent damage from the hatch opening explosively. Perhaps gas struts would be suitable to stop this! Tim, I have a design for opening from the outside. There could be a grip on the seaward side of the overpressure valve to equalise from outside. I am feeling like I have some solutions now. Thanks, Alan. Sent from my iPad > On 31/12/2017, at 11:23 AM, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Although it doesn't have be to the same vent/mechanism as the hatch over pressure safety. > > Also, there is a requirement for opening the hatch from outside, to add more complications (if you're strictly following regulations). > > -----Original Message----- > From: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Dec 30, 2017 1:16 PM > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism > > Just to add a complication to the project, you will need to have the vent accessible by someone on the outside too, in case the sub has surfaced but the operator is incapacitated. > Tim > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 12:51 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism > > Thanks Hank, > will have to think on this one. I want to let a novice dive my sub, so > the system needs to be bullet proof. > If I have some sort of lock mechanism I would need to be able to bypass > it if I needed to escape at depth. The pressure at depth would be apposing > the manual operation of the overpressure valve. You could flood the sub first > but normally the hatch is un-dogged prior to the hull equalizing. > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 31/12/2017, at 1:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > You could have a lock that prevents the hatch mechanism from opening that is activated by turning the hatch vent. I always vent before I one the hatch anyways. > Hank > > On Friday, December 29, 2017, 11:09:03 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Just doing some evening reading of the GL rules & noticed this rule about hatches.... > "the closing mechanism is to be designed in such a way that opening of > the hatch is only possible after pressure equalisation" > I am wondering what options there are for achieving this. > Has anyone had experience of the hatch opening with explosive force due > to internal over-pressure not being equalised. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 30 18:41:48 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 10:41:48 +1100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism In-Reply-To: References: <1868846126.6885.1514672584184@wamui-albus.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <88DC545A-C81E-43F3-92B7-0625AC6FEDD1@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, Some quick maths shows that for a hatch 0.5m diameter, just 2PSI pressure difference is a force of over 1000kg. I doubt gas struts would be very useful in that scenario! Cheers, Steve Fordyce On 31 Dec 2017 9:48 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Ian, Tim, yes I was thinking about a cam type latch dog as you described. The automatic pressure relief valve that Emile has would automatically reduce any pressure in the hull to the equalisers spring closure pressure, maybe 2psi; then if you forgot to manually press this valve to fully equalise, any internal overpressure would be released as the hatch dog incrementally released the hatch. I guess the only reason for this law is to prevent damage from the hatch opening explosively. Perhaps gas struts would be suitable to stop this! Tim, I have a design for opening from the outside. There could be a grip on the seaward side of the overpressure valve to equalise from outside. I am feeling like I have some solutions now. Thanks, Alan. Sent from my iPad On 31/12/2017, at 11:23 AM, irox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Although it doesn't have be to the same vent/mechanism as the hatch over pressure safety. Also, there is a requirement for opening the hatch from outside, to add more complications (if you're strictly following regulations). -----Original Message----- From: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Dec 30, 2017 1:16 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism Just to add a complication to the project, you will need to have the vent accessible by someone on the outside too, in case the sub has surfaced but the operator is incapacitated. Tim *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- bounces at psubs.org ] *On Behalf Of *Alan via Personal_Submersibles *Sent:* Saturday, December 30, 2017 12:51 PM *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism Thanks Hank, will have to think on this one. I want to let a novice dive my sub, so the system needs to be bullet proof. If I have some sort of lock mechanism I would need to be able to bypass it if I needed to escape at depth. The pressure at depth would be apposing the manual operation of the overpressure valve. You could flood the sub first but normally the hatch is un-dogged prior to the hull equalizing. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 31/12/2017, at 1:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Alan, You could have a lock that prevents the hatch mechanism from opening that is activated by turning the hatch vent. I always vent before I one the hatch anyways. Hank On Friday, December 29, 2017, 11:09:03 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just doing some evening reading of the GL rules & noticed this rule about hatches.... "the closing mechanism is to be designed in such a way that opening of the hatch is only possible after pressure equalisation" I am wondering what options there are for achieving this. Has anyone had experience of the hatch opening with explosive force due to internal over-pressure not being equalised. Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 30 21:11:02 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 15:11:02 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism In-Reply-To: References: <1868846126.6885.1514672584184@wamui-albus.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <88DC545A-C81E-43F3-92B7-0625AC6FEDD1@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0BBCEF1E-91A8-4554-B1BD-19954F7EE503@yahoo.com> Thanks for the maths Steve, yes could wreck the struts with that sort of explosive pressure, or be difficult to un-latch without equalising first. There could also be the situation where the sub cools down with the hatch closed, pulling a vacuum. Will go back to the drawing board! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 31/12/2017, at 12:41 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, > Some quick maths shows that for a hatch 0.5m diameter, just 2PSI pressure difference is a force of over 1000kg. I doubt gas struts would be very useful in that scenario! > > Cheers, > Steve Fordyce > > On 31 Dec 2017 9:48 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: > Ian, Tim, > yes I was thinking about a cam type latch dog as you described. > The automatic pressure relief valve that Emile has would automatically > reduce any pressure in the hull to the equalisers spring closure pressure, > maybe 2psi; then if you forgot to manually press this valve to fully equalise, > any internal overpressure would be released as the hatch dog incrementally > released the hatch. > I guess the only reason for this law is to prevent damage from the hatch > opening explosively. Perhaps gas struts would be suitable to stop this! > Tim, I have a design for opening from the outside. There could be a grip > on the seaward side of the overpressure valve to equalise from outside. > I am feeling like I have some solutions now. > Thanks, Alan. > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 31/12/2017, at 11:23 AM, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Although it doesn't have be to the same vent/mechanism as the hatch over pressure safety. >> >> Also, there is a requirement for opening the hatch from outside, to add more complications (if you're strictly following regulations). >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Dec 30, 2017 1:16 PM >> To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism >> >> Just to add a complication to the project, you will need to have the vent accessible by someone on the outside too, in case the sub has surfaced but the operator is incapacitated. >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 12:51 PM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism >> >> >> >> Thanks Hank, >> >> will have to think on this one. I want to let a novice dive my sub, so >> >> the system needs to be bullet proof. >> >> If I have some sort of lock mechanism I would need to be able to bypass >> >> it if I needed to escape at depth. The pressure at depth would be apposing >> >> the manual operation of the overpressure valve. You could flood the sub first >> >> but normally the hatch is un-dogged prior to the hull equalizing. >> >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> On 31/12/2017, at 1:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, >> >> You could have a lock that prevents the hatch mechanism from opening that is activated by turning the hatch vent. I always vent before I one the hatch anyways. >> >> Hank >> >> >> >> On Friday, December 29, 2017, 11:09:03 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Just doing some evening reading of the GL rules & noticed this rule about hatches.... >> >> "the closing mechanism is to be designed in such a way that opening of >> >> the hatch is only possible after pressure equalisation" >> >> I am wondering what options there are for achieving this. >> >> Has anyone had experience of the hatch opening with explosive force due >> >> to internal over-pressure not being equalised. >> >> Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 30 23:29:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 23:29:53 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Diving bell hatches and mating devices which are not sealed by pressure are to be fitted with a locking mechanism which prevents opening under pressure. The locking mechanism is to be so designed that the correct closure position is clearly apparent before pressure is applied. Message-ID: Are you sure you are interpreting the rules correctly Alan? The only rule I can find in GL requiring a hatch equalization lock is the following: Part 3, Chapter 1, Section 3 "2.3.1 Diving bell hatches and mating devices which are not sealed by pressure are to be fitted with a locking mechanism which prevents opening under pressure. The locking mechanism is to be so designed that the correct closure position is clearly apparent before pressure is applied." This only applies if you're building a diving bell, recompression chamber, or diver lock-out. In that case having the hatch open under pressure would result in an explosive decompression, instantly killing everyone involved in a nasty way. I would guess that this rule was implemented in response to the Byford Dolphin accident (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byford_Dolphin) where that exact scenario happened and would have been prevented by a pressure activated hatch lock. Thanks, -River J. Dolfi rdolfi7 at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 30 23:52:05 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 23:52:05 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism Message-ID: Ooops, ignore that previous rule. I was reading the Lloyds of London rules, not German Lloyds. "2.1 The access and exit hatches shall be provided with a closing mechanism which makes it possible to create, even when the submersible is surfaced, a sufficient contact force on the hatch sealing. Sealing systems for hatch covers shall be approved by the Society. *In addition the closing mechanism shall be designed in a way that opening of the hatch is only possible after pressure equalization has happened, see [4*]." Of course, now that I think about it, this requirement is redundant. If an overpressure valve is installed, there would never be high pressure in the cabin to need to relieve. If there is an underpressure, you wouldn't be able to open the hatch anyway! Thanks, -River J. Dolfi rdolfi7 at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 31 00:49:06 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 18:49:06 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: River, GL also requires an over-pressure valve so I think this is in addition to that. As Steve pointed out, if the closing spring on the over-pressure valve is 2psi then that is 620 lb. pressure (Steve makes it 1000kg) that the hatch will still be seeing. Wonder if Vance has any experience on this? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 31/12/2017, at 5:52 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Ooops, ignore that previous rule. I was reading the Lloyds of London rules, not German Lloyds. > > "2.1 > The access and exit hatches shall be provided with a closing mechanism which makes it possible to create, even when the submersible is surfaced, a sufficient contact force on the hatch sealing. Sealing systems for hatch covers shall be approved by the Society. > In addition the closing mechanism shall be designed in a way that opening of the hatch is only possible after pressure equalization has happened, see [4]." > > Of course, now that I think about it, this requirement is redundant. If an overpressure valve is installed, there would never be high pressure in the cabin to need to relieve. If there is an underpressure, you wouldn't be able to open the hatch anyway! > > Thanks, > > -River J. Dolfi > rdolfi7 at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 31 09:18:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 09:18:53 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <160acf08be1-171b-27017@webjas-vaa126.srv.aolmail.net> You are almost always dealing with a vacuum when returning to the surface, which in any case you can control over time via the life support system. We used a 1/4" ball valve of the HP air bank to equalize. On the Perry boats, an external vent line was routed from the penetrator up to the conning tower and wrapped in an inverted 'J' over the aft viewport. That way venting out cleared the line. There was no over pressurization valve as such. We depended on pilots, not springs. I've seen a lot of chatter about potential leakage into the cabin from the valves and connections on HP air systems at depth. That's what the barometer is for. I've cancelled exactly one dive for that, and snugged up a couple of fittings on the job, as it were. That's why you always carry tools and a bottle of Snoop. It is also why we don't use hardware store fittings. Best quality materials and proper installation pays off in the end. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 12:49 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism River, GL also requires an over-pressure valve so I think this is in addition to that. As Steve pointed out, if the closing spring on the over-pressure valve is 2psi then that is 620 lb. pressure (Steve makes it 1000kg) that the hatch will still be seeing. Wonder if Vance has any experience on this? Alan Sent from my iPad On 31/12/2017, at 5:52 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ooops, ignore that previous rule. I was reading the Lloyds of London rules, not German Lloyds. "2.1 The access and exit hatches shall be provided with a closing mechanism which makes it possible to create, even when the submersible is surfaced, a sufficient contact force on the hatch sealing. Sealing systems for hatch covers shall be approved by the Society. In addition the closing mechanism shall be designed in a way that opening of the hatch is only possible after pressure equalization has happened, see [4]." Of course, now that I think about it, this requirement is redundant. If an overpressure valve is installed, there would never be high pressure in the cabin to need to relieve. If there is an underpressure, you wouldn't be able to open the hatch anyway! Thanks, -River J. Dolfi rdolfi7 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 31 09:30:22 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 09:30:22 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism In-Reply-To: <160acf08be1-171b-27017@webjas-vaa126.srv.aolmail.net> Message-ID: <160acfb0c98-1d3e-986@webjas-vac157.srv.aolmail.net> And speaking of springs, we always terminated each of the MBT blow lines (externally) with a check valve. It keeps the lines clear and you don't get water backing up to your panel valves at depth. TIP: Use ball type. The piston type check valves do an incredibly good impersonation of sustained flatulence. It makes the passengers giggle helplessly. Vance -----Original Message----- From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 9:19 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism You are almost always dealing with a vacuum when returning to the surface, which in any case you can control over time via the life support system. We used a 1/4" ball valve of the HP air bank to equalize. On the Perry boats, an external vent line was routed from the penetrator up to the conning tower and wrapped in an inverted 'J' over the aft viewport. That way venting out cleared the line. There was no over pressurization valve as such. We depended on pilots, not springs. I've seen a lot of chatter about potential leakage into the cabin from the valves and connections on HP air systems at depth. That's what the barometer is for. I've cancelled exactly one dive for that, and snugged up a couple of fittings on the job, as it were. That's why you always carry tools and a bottle of Snoop. It is also why we don't use hardware store fittings. Best quality materials and proper installation pays off in the end. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 12:49 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism River, GL also requires an over-pressure valve so I think this is in addition to that. As Steve pointed out, if the closing spring on the over-pressure valve is 2psi then that is 620 lb. pressure (Steve makes it 1000kg) that the hatch will still be seeing. Wonder if Vance has any experience on this? Alan Sent from my iPad On 31/12/2017, at 5:52 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ooops, ignore that previous rule. I was reading the Lloyds of London rules, not German Lloyds. "2.1 The access and exit hatches shall be provided with a closing mechanism which makes it possible to create, even when the submersible is surfaced, a sufficient contact force on the hatch sealing. Sealing systems for hatch covers shall be approved by the Society. In addition the closing mechanism shall be designed in a way that opening of the hatch is only possible after pressure equalization has happened, see [4]." Of course, now that I think about it, this requirement is redundant. If an overpressure valve is installed, there would never be high pressure in the cabin to need to relieve. If there is an underpressure, you wouldn't be able to open the hatch anyway! Thanks, -River J. Dolfi rdolfi7 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 31 14:53:39 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2018 08:53:39 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism In-Reply-To: <160acfb0c98-1d3e-986@webjas-vac157.srv.aolmail.net> References: <160acfb0c98-1d3e-986@webjas-vac157.srv.aolmail.net> Message-ID: Thanks Vance, great stuff, Happy New Year. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 1/01/2018, at 3:30 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > And speaking of springs, we always terminated each of the MBT blow lines (externally) with a check valve. It keeps the lines clear and you don't get water backing up to your panel valves at depth. TIP: Use ball type. The piston type check valves do an incredibly good impersonation of sustained flatulence. It makes the passengers giggle helplessly. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 9:19 am > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism > > You are almost always dealing with a vacuum when returning to the surface, which in any case you can control over time via the life support system. We used a 1/4" ball valve of the HP air bank to equalize. On the Perry boats, an external vent line was routed from the penetrator up to the conning tower and wrapped in an inverted 'J' over the aft viewport. That way venting out cleared the line. There was no over pressurization valve as such. We depended on pilots, not springs. I've seen a lot of chatter about potential leakage into the cabin from the valves and connections on HP air systems at depth. That's what the barometer is for. I've cancelled exactly one dive for that, and snugged up a couple of fittings on the job, as it were. That's why you always carry tools and a bottle of Snoop. It is also why we don't use hardware store fittings. Best quality materials and proper installation pays off in the end. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 12:49 am > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism > > River, > GL also requires an over-pressure valve so I think this is in addition to that. > As Steve pointed out, if the closing spring on the over-pressure valve is > 2psi then that is 620 lb. pressure (Steve makes it 1000kg) that the hatch > will still be seeing. > Wonder if Vance has any experience on this? > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 31/12/2017, at 5:52 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Ooops, ignore that previous rule. I was reading the Lloyds of London rules, not German Lloyds. > > "2.1 > The access and exit hatches shall be provided with a closing mechanism which makes it possible to create, even when the submersible is surfaced, a sufficient contact force on the hatch sealing. Sealing systems for hatch covers shall be approved by the Society. > In addition the closing mechanism shall be designed in a way that opening of the hatch is only possible after pressure equalization has happened, see [4]." > > Of course, now that I think about it, this requirement is redundant. If an overpressure valve is installed, there would never be high pressure in the cabin to need to relieve. If there is an underpressure, you wouldn't be able to open the hatch anyway! > > Thanks, > > -River J. Dolfi > rdolfi7 at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 31 16:39:29 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 16:39:29 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <160ae83ed7c-1d41-23ff@webjas-vab215.srv.aolmail.net> Happy New Year to you, as well. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 2:55 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism Thanks Vance, great stuff, Happy New Year. Alan Sent from my iPad On 1/01/2018, at 3:30 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: And speaking of springs, we always terminated each of the MBT blow lines (externally) with a check valve. It keeps the lines clear and you don't get water backing up to your panel valves at depth. TIP: Use ball type. The piston type check valves do an incredibly good impersonation of sustained flatulence. It makes the passengers giggle helplessly. Vance -----Original Message----- From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 9:19 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism You are almost always dealing with a vacuum when returning to the surface, which in any case you can control over time via the life support system. We used a 1/4" ball valve of the HP air bank to equalize. On the Perry boats, an external vent line was routed from the penetrator up to the conning tower and wrapped in an inverted 'J' over the aft viewport. That way venting out cleared the line. There was no over pressurization valve as such. We depended on pilots, not springs. I've seen a lot of chatter about potential leakage into the cabin from the valves and connections on HP air systems at depth. That's what the barometer is for. I've cancelled exactly one dive for that, and snugged up a couple of fittings on the job, as it were. That's why you always carry tools and a bottle of Snoop. It is also why we don't use hardware store fittings. Best quality materials and proper installation pays off in the end. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 12:49 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism River, GL also requires an over-pressure valve so I think this is in addition to that. As Steve pointed out, if the closing spring on the over-pressure valve is 2psi then that is 620 lb. pressure (Steve makes it 1000kg) that the hatch will still be seeing. Wonder if Vance has any experience on this? Alan Sent from my iPad On 31/12/2017, at 5:52 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ooops, ignore that previous rule. I was reading the Lloyds of London rules, not German Lloyds. "2.1 The access and exit hatches shall be provided with a closing mechanism which makes it possible to create, even when the submersible is surfaced, a sufficient contact force on the hatch sealing. Sealing systems for hatch covers shall be approved by the Society. In addition the closing mechanism shall be designed in a way that opening of the hatch is only possible after pressure equalization has happened, see [4]." Of course, now that I think about it, this requirement is redundant. If an overpressure valve is installed, there would never be high pressure in the cabin to need to relieve. If there is an underpressure, you wouldn't be able to open the hatch anyway! Thanks, -River J. Dolfi rdolfi7 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 31 16:42:13 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 16:42:13 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism In-Reply-To: <160ae83ed7c-1d41-23ff@webjas-vab215.srv.aolmail.net> Message-ID: <160ae866c4e-171f-1ca75@webjas-vae018.srv.aolmail.net> In fact, Happy New Year to one and all. Dive safe. Vance -----Original Message----- From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 4:39 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism Happy New Year to you, as well. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 2:55 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism Thanks Vance, great stuff, Happy New Year. Alan Sent from my iPad On 1/01/2018, at 3:30 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: And speaking of springs, we always terminated each of the MBT blow lines (externally) with a check valve. It keeps the lines clear and you don't get water backing up to your panel valves at depth. TIP: Use ball type. The piston type check valves do an incredibly good impersonation of sustained flatulence. It makes the passengers giggle helplessly. Vance -----Original Message----- From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 9:19 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism You are almost always dealing with a vacuum when returning to the surface, which in any case you can control over time via the life support system. We used a 1/4" ball valve of the HP air bank to equalize. On the Perry boats, an external vent line was routed from the penetrator up to the conning tower and wrapped in an inverted 'J' over the aft viewport. That way venting out cleared the line. There was no over pressurization valve as such. We depended on pilots, not springs. I've seen a lot of chatter about potential leakage into the cabin from the valves and connections on HP air systems at depth. That's what the barometer is for. I've cancelled exactly one dive for that, and snugged up a couple of fittings on the job, as it were. That's why you always carry tools and a bottle of Snoop. It is also why we don't use hardware store fittings. Best quality materials and proper installation pays off in the end. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 12:49 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism River, GL also requires an over-pressure valve so I think this is in addition to that. As Steve pointed out, if the closing spring on the over-pressure valve is 2psi then that is 620 lb. pressure (Steve makes it 1000kg) that the hatch will still be seeing. Wonder if Vance has any experience on this? Alan Sent from my iPad On 31/12/2017, at 5:52 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ooops, ignore that previous rule. I was reading the Lloyds of London rules, not German Lloyds. "2.1 The access and exit hatches shall be provided with a closing mechanism which makes it possible to create, even when the submersible is surfaced, a sufficient contact force on the hatch sealing. Sealing systems for hatch covers shall be approved by the Society. In addition the closing mechanism shall be designed in a way that opening of the hatch is only possible after pressure equalization has happened, see [4]." Of course, now that I think about it, this requirement is redundant. If an overpressure valve is installed, there would never be high pressure in the cabin to need to relieve. If there is an underpressure, you wouldn't be able to open the hatch anyway! Thanks, -River J. Dolfi rdolfi7 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 31 16:55:32 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 13:55:32 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism Message-ID: <20171231135532.2D1F9362@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 31 17:41:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 22:41:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism In-Reply-To: <20171231135532.2D1F9362@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20171231135532.2D1F9362@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1750773229.6916480.1514760109224@mail.yahoo.com> Happy new year, my wife just gave me a drink with an ice cube shaped like a submarine lolHank On Sunday, December 31, 2017, 2:55:46 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Happy New year !???????? ?Brian Cox --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 16:42:13 -0500 In fact, Happy New Year to one and all.Dive safe.Vance -----Original Message----- From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 4:39 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism Happy New Year to you, as well.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 2:55 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism Thanks Vance,?great stuff, Happy New Year.Alan Sent from my iPad On 1/01/2018, at 3:30 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: And speaking of springs, we always terminated each of the MBT blow lines (externally) with a check valve. It keeps the lines clear and you don't get water backing up to your panel valves at depth. TIP: Use ball type. The piston type check valves do an incredibly good impersonation of sustained flatulence. It makes the passengers giggle helplessly.Vance -----Original Message----- From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 9:19 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism You are almost always dealing with a vacuum when returning to the surface, which in any case you can control over time via the life support system. We used a 1/4" ball valve of the HP air bank to equalize. On the Perry boats, an external vent line was routed from the penetrator up to the conning tower and wrapped in an inverted 'J' over the aft viewport. That way venting out cleared the line. There was no over pressurization valve as such. We depended on pilots, not springs. I've seen a lot of chatter about potential leakage into the cabin from the valves and connections on HP air systems at depth. That's what the barometer is for. I've cancelled exactly one dive for that, and snugged up a couple of fittings on the job, as it were. That's why you always carry tools and a bottle of Snoop. It is also why we don't use hardware store fittings. Best quality materials and proper installation pays off in the end.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 12:49 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism River,GL also requires an over-pressure valve so I think this is in addition to that.As Steve pointed out, if the closing spring on the over-pressure valve is?2psi then that is 620 lb. pressure (Steve makes it 1000kg) that the hatchwill still be seeing.Wonder if Vance has any experience on this?Alan Sent from my iPad On 31/12/2017, at 5:52 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ooops, ignore that previous rule. I was reading the Lloyds of London rules, not German Lloyds. "2.1 The access and exit hatches shall be provided with a closing mechanism which makes it possible to create, even when the submersible is surfaced, a sufficient contact force on the hatch sealing. Sealing systems for hatch covers shall be approved by the Society. In addition the closing mechanism shall be designed in a way that opening of the hatch is only possible after pressure equalization has happened, see [4]." Of course, now that I think about it, this requirement is redundant. If an overpressure valve is installed, there would never be high pressure in the cabin to need to relieve. If there is an underpressure, you wouldn't be able to open the hatch anyway! Thanks, -River J. Dolfi rdolfi7 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 31 19:01:21 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 19:01:21 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism In-Reply-To: <1750773229.6916480.1514760109224@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20171231135532.2D1F9362@m0117567.ppops.net> <1750773229.6916480.1514760109224@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00b101d38293$a9c834f0$fd589ed0$@indy.rr.com> Happy new year and thanks for all the sharing and good ideas I have been stealing. 2018 just might be the year I have my K250 in the water. Steve From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 5:42 PM To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism Happy new year, my wife just gave me a drink with an ice cube shaped like a submarine lol Hank On Sunday, December 31, 2017, 2:55:46 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Happy New year ! Brian Cox --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 16:42:13 -0500 In fact, Happy New Year to one and all. Dive safe. Vance -----Original Message----- From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 4:39 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism Happy New Year to you, as well. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 2:55 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism Thanks Vance, great stuff, Happy New Year. Alan Sent from my iPad On 1/01/2018, at 3:30 AM, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: And speaking of springs, we always terminated each of the MBT blow lines (externally) with a check valve. It keeps the lines clear and you don't get water backing up to your panel valves at depth. TIP: Use ball type. The piston type check valves do an incredibly good impersonation of sustained flatulence. It makes the passengers giggle helplessly. Vance -----Original Message----- From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 9:19 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism You are almost always dealing with a vacuum when returning to the surface, which in any case you can control over time via the life support system. We used a 1/4" ball valve of the HP air bank to equalize. On the Perry boats, an external vent line was routed from the penetrator up to the conning tower and wrapped in an inverted 'J' over the aft viewport. That way venting out cleared the line. There was no over pressurization valve as such. We depended on pilots, not springs. I've seen a lot of chatter about potential leakage into the cabin from the valves and connections on HP air systems at depth. That's what the barometer is for. I've cancelled exactly one dive for that, and snugged up a couple of fittings on the job, as it were. That's why you always carry tools and a bottle of Snoop. It is also why we don't use hardware store fittings. Best quality materials and proper installation pays off in the end. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 12:49 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism River, GL also requires an over-pressure valve so I think this is in addition to that. As Steve pointed out, if the closing spring on the over-pressure valve is 2psi then that is 620 lb. pressure (Steve makes it 1000kg) that the hatch will still be seeing. Wonder if Vance has any experience on this? Alan Sent from my iPad On 31/12/2017, at 5:52 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Ooops, ignore that previous rule. I was reading the Lloyds of London rules, not German Lloyds. "2.1 The access and exit hatches shall be provided with a closing mechanism which makes it possible to create, even when the submersible is surfaced, a sufficient contact force on the hatch sealing. Sealing systems for hatch covers shall be approved by the Society. In addition the closing mechanism shall be designed in a way that opening of the hatch is only possible after pressure equalization has happened, see [4]." Of course, now that I think about it, this requirement is redundant. If an overpressure valve is installed, there would never be high pressure in the cabin to need to relieve. If there is an underpressure, you wouldn't be able to open the hatch anyway! Thanks, -River J. Dolfi rdolfi7 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 31 23:19:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2018 04:19:50 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism In-Reply-To: <00b101d38293$a9c834f0$fd589ed0$@indy.rr.com> References: <20171231135532.2D1F9362@m0117567.ppops.net> <1750773229.6916480.1514760109224@mail.yahoo.com> <00b101d38293$a9c834f0$fd589ed0$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: Happy New Year everyone! Rick On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 2:02 PM Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Happy new year and thanks for all the sharing and good ideas I have been > stealing. 2018 just might be the year I have my K250 in the water. > > Steve > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Sunday, December 31, 2017 5:42 PM > *To:* Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism > > > > Happy new year, my wife just gave me a drink with an ice cube shaped like > a submarine lol > > Hank > > > > On Sunday, December 31, 2017, 2:55:46 PM MST, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > Happy New year ! > > > > Brian Cox > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism > Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 16:42:13 -0500 > > In fact, Happy New Year to one and all. > > Dive safe. > > Vance > > -----Original Message----- > From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 4:39 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism > > Happy New Year to you, as well. > > Vance > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 2:55 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism > > Thanks Vance, > > great stuff, Happy New Year. > > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 1/01/2018, at 3:30 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > And speaking of springs, we always terminated each of the MBT blow lines > (externally) with a check valve. It keeps the lines clear and you don't get > water backing up to your panel valves at depth. TIP: Use ball type. The > piston type check valves do an incredibly good impersonation of sustained > flatulence. It makes the passengers giggle helplessly. > > Vance > > -----Original Message----- > From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 9:19 am > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism > > You are almost always dealing with a vacuum when returning to the surface, > which in any case you can control over time via the life support system. We > used a 1/4" ball valve of the HP air bank to equalize. On the Perry boats, > an external vent line was routed from the penetrator up to the conning > tower and wrapped in an inverted 'J' over the aft viewport. That way > venting out cleared the line. There was no over pressurization valve as > such. We depended on pilots, not springs. I've seen a lot of chatter about > potential leakage into the cabin from the valves and connections on HP air > systems at depth. That's what the barometer is for. I've cancelled exactly > one dive for that, and snugged up a couple of fittings on the job, as it > were. That's why you always carry tools and a bottle of Snoop. It is also > why we don't use hardware store fittings. Best quality materials and proper > installation pays off in the end. > > Vance > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 12:49 am > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism > > River, > > GL also requires an over-pressure valve so I think this is in addition to > that. > > As Steve pointed out, if the closing spring on the over-pressure valve is > > 2psi then that is 620 lb. pressure (Steve makes it 1000kg) that the hatch > > will still be seeing. > > Wonder if Vance has any experience on this? > > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 31/12/2017, at 5:52 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Ooops, ignore that previous rule. I was reading the Lloyds of London > rules, not German Lloyds. > > "2.1 > The access and exit hatches shall be provided with a closing mechanism > which makes it possible to create, even when the submersible is surfaced, a > sufficient contact force on the hatch sealing. Sealing systems for hatch > covers shall be approved by the Society. > *In addition the closing mechanism shall be designed in a way that opening > of the hatch is only possible after pressure equalization has happened, see > [4*]." > > > > Of course, now that I think about it, this requirement is redundant. If an > overpressure valve is installed, there would never be high pressure in the > cabin to need to relieve. If there is an underpressure, you wouldn't be > able to open the hatch anyway! > > > > Thanks, > > > > -River J. Dolfi > > rdolfi7 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: