From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 1 13:18:02 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 19:18:02 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] internal variable ballast In-Reply-To: <354760455.942050.1485910993157@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20170131165848.F729029F@m0087792.ppops.net> <354760455.942050.1485910993157@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <043f01d27cb7$871056a0$953103e0$@nl> Hank, Consider refitting; it so good to have one.. I dive the sub always an few Lbs/Kg to light. Lifting the sub from a lake bottom will create a silt out.. Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 1 februari 2017 2:03 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] internal variable ballast Brian, I have no VBT in Gamma. Gamma was designed with a VBT, but early on it was removed. Gamma is meant to dive 15 lbs heavy, that is according to the operators manual. Hank On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 5:59 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Do you have a internal variable ballast ? If so, what kind of capacity does it have? I think I'm going to opt for a pump for my internal tank rather than compressed air, much easier! Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 1 14:11:59 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 19:11:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] internal variable ballast In-Reply-To: <043f01d27cb7$871056a0$953103e0$@nl> References: <20170131165848.F729029F@m0087792.ppops.net> <354760455.942050.1485910993157@mail.yahoo.com> <043f01d27cb7$871056a0$953103e0$@nl> Message-ID: <651833995.479796.1485976319536@mail.yahoo.com> Emile,I agree silt can be a problem, but if I am carful, I can stop?before the bottom by adding air to my MBT and then push the sub down. ?It has not been a problem. ?Also, I have no room because I just added a range extending battery pack behind the pilot seat. ?Hank On Wednesday, February 1, 2017 11:18 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv6005166229 #yiv6005166229 -- _filtered #yiv6005166229 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv6005166229 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv6005166229 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv6005166229 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv6005166229 #yiv6005166229 p.yiv6005166229MsoNormal, #yiv6005166229 li.yiv6005166229MsoNormal, #yiv6005166229 div.yiv6005166229MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv6005166229 a:link, #yiv6005166229 span.yiv6005166229MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6005166229 a:visited, #yiv6005166229 span.yiv6005166229MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6005166229 span.yiv6005166229E-mailStijl17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv6005166229 .yiv6005166229MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv6005166229 {margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}#yiv6005166229 div.yiv6005166229WordSection1 {}#yiv6005166229 Hank, ?Consider refitting; it so good to have one..I dive the sub always an few Lbs/Kg to light. Lifting the sub from a lake bottom will create a silt out.. ?Br, Emile ?Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 1 februari 2017 2:03 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] internal variable ballast ?Brian,I have no VBT in Gamma. ?Gamma was designed with a VBT, but early on it was removed. ?Gamma is meant to dive 15 lbs heavy, that is?according to the operators manual.Hank ?On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 5:59 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Hank,???? ??????????????? Do you have a internal variable ballast ?? If so, what kind of capacity does it have??? I think I'm going to opt for a pump for my internal tank rather than compressed air, much easier!???Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 1 15:18:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 21:18:56 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] internal variable ballast In-Reply-To: <651833995.479796.1485976319536@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20170131165848.F729029F@m0087792.ppops.net> <354760455.942050.1485910993157@mail.yahoo.com> <043f01d27cb7$871056a0$953103e0$@nl> <651833995.479796.1485976319536@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <045f01d27cc8$6a28d510$3e7a7f30$@nl> Hank, Ah, little air in the MBT. Works also. I have to do this sometimes as a passenger is heavier than the VBT can compensate. Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 1 februari 2017 20:12 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] internal variable ballast Emile, I agree silt can be a problem, but if I am carful, I can stop before the bottom by adding air to my MBT and then push the sub down. It has not been a problem. Also, I have no room because I just added a range extending battery pack behind the pilot seat. Hank On Wednesday, February 1, 2017 11:18 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Consider refitting; it so good to have one.. I dive the sub always an few Lbs/Kg to light. Lifting the sub from a lake bottom will create a silt out.. Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 1 februari 2017 2:03 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] internal variable ballast Brian, I have no VBT in Gamma. Gamma was designed with a VBT, but early on it was removed. Gamma is meant to dive 15 lbs heavy, that is according to the operators manual. Hank On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 5:59 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Do you have a internal variable ballast ? If so, what kind of capacity does it have? I think I'm going to opt for a pump for my internal tank rather than compressed air, much easier! Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 1 16:32:09 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 11:32:09 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans In-Reply-To: References: <01cc01d27a1c$fd7c9940$f875cbc0$@nl> <159ea9ab464-76e0-fad5@webprd-a105.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: Hey Cliff That's quite a makeover! I agree, when I bought my plans, it seemed I was having to call Ketteredge a lot for clarification and would of welcomed a cleaned up set. On another note, I am getting ready to fabricate all my external light housings and would like to hear from anyone who is using LED lighting in their housings as far as how many lumans they are and what diameter they are etc. Thanks Rick On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:44 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Spent a couple of months last year working on the design of a modified > K-350. I found he original K-350 plans to be pretty weak. Changes made > were: > > > 1. > > Removed aft external motor and prop and replaced with two fixed Minn > Kota 101 thruster with kort nozzle like I have on the R300 > 2. > > Replaced vertical thrusters with two fixed Minn Kota 101 thrusters > with kort nozzle > 3. > > Propulsion and depth station keeping all fly by wire with joystick > control > 4. > > Move air tanks (two 100 SCF aluminum scuba tanks) outside hull old > location of main propulsion motor > 5. > > PLC for control of all systems (same as R300) > 6. > > HMI and joystick on mobile to permit operation from prone, sitting or > standing position. > 7. > > Replaced life support with fully automated design used on R300 > 8. > > Moved electrical components into three electrical boxes on or near aft > elliptical head > 9. > > Added sensors for main and auxiliary battery voltage and current, > ambient water pressure and temperature, cabin pressure, temperature, and > humidly, compass heading, boat roll and pitch, boat altitude and speed. > Life support system has sensors for CO2, O2 concentrations, O2 tank > pressure, mass rate of O2 during O2 makeup. Pressure sensor for HP air bank > and regulated air pressure. > 10. > > Increased main battery capacity to 400 Ah which required increasing > the battery pod diameter to 16? OD and 47? seam to seam > 11. > > Replaced the main and auxiliary battery banks with 16 OPTIMA BATTERIES > BLUE TOP DEEP CYCLE MARINE BATTERY GROUP D34M. 12 for main buss and 4 > for auxiliary buss. 8 batteries per pod > 12. > > Widened the spacing on battery pods to 38? > 13. > > Added two additional viewports > 14. > > Added external LED lights > 15. > > Added compass/pitch/roll sensors off R300 > 16. > > Changed design of battery pods detachable heads to flange style > 17. > > Redesigned the MBT and VBT controls. > 18. > > Utilize Hugh Fulton pancake style pneumatically operated MBT vent > valves > 19. > > Modified MBTs by closing the bottoms > 20. > > lengthened VBT to 18? seam to seam to increase the volume to 8.75 gals > 21. > > Added compass/pitch/roll sensors off R300 > 22. > > Built out boat in Autodesk Inventor professional. > 23. > > Drawing package updated, 51 assembly drawings and 160 part drawings > 24. > > With mods, the current boat weight is 4,707 lbs, without pilot or > passenger > 25. > > With mods, the current boat submerged displacement is 4,866 lbs, > 26. > > Buoyancy of boat with VBT and MBT fully blown is 5,849 lbf > 27. > > Boat Reserve of buoyancy is 9.2% > > Cliff > > On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Philippe Robert via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Nice for the list ! I can't wait to read all the suggested modifications >> ans specs ! >> >> Philippe >> >> >> 2017-01-29 9:22 GMT-05:00 via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: >> >>> Emile, >>> >>> I actually already started a list on what I want to improve on the K350! >>> >>> I was actually thinking about having a 1 meter hull dia >>> Improve depth rating to around 300 meters >>> Look into improving the ballast tanks >>> Have the thrusters be controlled by a joystick >>> >>> -Ludwig >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: emile via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Sent: Sun, Jan 29, 2017 4:47 am >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans >>> >>> Ludwig, >>> >>> The K350 is a nice sub and the plans might be a good start . >>> Mind some points are a bit outdated. >>> >>> If I build a K350: >>> -1 meter hull dia (was 900mm) >>> -improved ballast tanks >>> -dome window in the bow >>> >>> Emile >>> >>> *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- >>> bounces at psubs.org ] *Namens *via >>> Personal_Submersibles >>> *Verzonden:* zaterdag 28 januari 2017 23:36 >>> *Aan:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> *Onderwerp:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans >>> >>> Hey guys, >>> >>> Who should I contact regarding the purchasing of the K-350 plans? >>> >>> I bought the plans at the end of December and still haven't received >>> them. I also sent an email off to sales at psubs.org around two weeks ago >>> and haven't gotten a reply. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Ludwig >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 1 16:32:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 16:32:53 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator Air Void Question/Concern In-Reply-To: <13710745.936451.1485909561105@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20170131145124.YDNUY.47052.root@cdptpa-web27> <231960501.2998458.1485899485435@mail.yahoo.com> <006301d27c13$597f6630$0c7e3290$@indy.rr.com> <13710745.936451.1485909561105@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <019001d27cd2$bf3a96b0$3dafc410$@indy.rr.com> Thanks Hank. The vendor literature for the Conax gland fitting implies that you can use it on a multiconductor cable but I am sure it is not the best scenario. I will let you know what results I get. Steve From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 7:39 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator Air Void Question/Concern Steve, My first reaction was to say no worries, but, if the outside blue globe leaks even a little, you will have salt water sitting in the void. Either forget the inside blue globe or put a tee on the nipple and run the wires through that then into the inside blue globe. Then orient the tee so the open fitting is vertical, then fill with oil and cap it. Hank Thought you could not do multiple wires in a compression fitting? On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 3:43 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Alan, yes I think you understand my application. Thanks for the feedback. I don?t think I will worry much about this. Sometimes things are easier when you are only dealing with K-250 type depths : ) Steve From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 4:51 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator Air Void Question/Concern Steve, if I am reading it right it doesn't seem a problem. This must be what Emile & Carsten do. They have a blue globe outside & inside, & the cable between would have to travel through a void. The inner cable gland would be a back up for any leaks, & also stop the cable extruding in to the hull. I am using them, & I have always been wary of the cross sectional make up of the wires; ie. if you have two wires in the cable can the cable sheath crush in an oblong shape & let water through the cable gland! Alan _____ From: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 3:51 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator Air Void Question/Concern All, I am running a multi conductor cable (11-12mm OD) for my 12V stern thruster thru an existing 1/2" pipe nipple in the aft head of my K-250. I am using a Blueglobe gland fitting (BG 220 VA, rated @ 1,160 psig) on the outboard pressure side of the nipple and a Conax gland (PG5-500-A-N,rated @ 800 psig) for the gland fitting inboard. I was originally only going to have interior Conax gland and let the pipe free flood. Then I decided I wanted to have redundancy and keep the pipe interior dry to help prevent corrosion (it is old school (not SS)). My question: Is the air void that will exist between the 2 gland fittings a concern? Think empty pipe with both ends capped. I'm thinking not... Thanks, Steve _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 1 16:34:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 16:34:43 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: Penetrator Air Void Question/Concern References: <20170131145124.YDNUY.47052.root@cdptpa-web27> <231960501.2998458.1485899485435@mail.yahoo.com> <006301d27c13$597f6630$0c7e3290$@indy.rr.com> <13710745.936451.1485909561105@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01a201d27cd3$007f92b0$017eb810$@indy.rr.com> To clarify the multiconductors are all contained within one jacket? From: Steve McQueen [mailto:psub101 at indy.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 4:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator Air Void Question/Concern Thanks Hank. The vendor literature for the Conax gland fitting implies that you can use it on a multiconductor cable but I am sure it is not the best scenario. I will let you know what results I get. Steve From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 7:39 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator Air Void Question/Concern Steve, My first reaction was to say no worries, but, if the outside blue globe leaks even a little, you will have salt water sitting in the void. Either forget the inside blue globe or put a tee on the nipple and run the wires through that then into the inside blue globe. Then orient the tee so the open fitting is vertical, then fill with oil and cap it. Hank Thought you could not do multiple wires in a compression fitting? On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 3:43 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Alan, yes I think you understand my application. Thanks for the feedback. I don?t think I will worry much about this. Sometimes things are easier when you are only dealing with K-250 type depths : ) Steve From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 4:51 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator Air Void Question/Concern Steve, if I am reading it right it doesn't seem a problem. This must be what Emile & Carsten do. They have a blue globe outside & inside, & the cable between would have to travel through a void. The inner cable gland would be a back up for any leaks, & also stop the cable extruding in to the hull. I am using them, & I have always been wary of the cross sectional make up of the wires; ie. if you have two wires in the cable can the cable sheath crush in an oblong shape & let water through the cable gland! Alan _____ From: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 3:51 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator Air Void Question/Concern All, I am running a multi conductor cable (11-12mm OD) for my 12V stern thruster thru an existing 1/2" pipe nipple in the aft head of my K-250. I am using a Blueglobe gland fitting (BG 220 VA, rated @ 1,160 psig) on the outboard pressure side of the nipple and a Conax gland (PG5-500-A-N,rated @ 800 psig) for the gland fitting inboard. I was originally only going to have interior Conax gland and let the pipe free flood. Then I decided I wanted to have redundancy and keep the pipe interior dry to help prevent corrosion (it is old school (not SS)). My question: Is the air void that will exist between the 2 gland fittings a concern? Think empty pipe with both ends capped. I'm thinking not... Thanks, Steve _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 1 16:59:30 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 15:59:30 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans In-Reply-To: References: <01cc01d27a1c$fd7c9940$f875cbc0$@nl> <159ea9ab464-76e0-fad5@webprd-a105.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: Rick send me your email address off line and I will send you the plans for the 5K lumen exterior light I use for my boat. My email address is cliffordredus at sbcglobal.net. I have one of these on the port side of my boat and in the process of fabricating a second this month for the starboard side. Plans will address your questions. Cliff On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 3:32 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hey Cliff > > That's quite a makeover! I agree, when I bought my plans, it seemed I was > having to call Ketteredge a lot for clarification and would of welcomed a > cleaned up set. > > On another note, I am getting ready to fabricate all my external light > housings and would like to hear from anyone who is using LED lighting in > their housings as far as how many lumans they are and what diameter they > are etc. > > Thanks > > Rick > > On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:44 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Spent a couple of months last year working on the design of a modified >> K-350. I found he original K-350 plans to be pretty weak. Changes made >> were: >> >> >> 1. >> >> Removed aft external motor and prop and replaced with two fixed Minn >> Kota 101 thruster with kort nozzle like I have on the R300 >> 2. >> >> Replaced vertical thrusters with two fixed Minn Kota 101 thrusters >> with kort nozzle >> 3. >> >> Propulsion and depth station keeping all fly by wire with joystick >> control >> 4. >> >> Move air tanks (two 100 SCF aluminum scuba tanks) outside hull old >> location of main propulsion motor >> 5. >> >> PLC for control of all systems (same as R300) >> 6. >> >> HMI and joystick on mobile to permit operation from prone, sitting or >> standing position. >> 7. >> >> Replaced life support with fully automated design used on R300 >> 8. >> >> Moved electrical components into three electrical boxes on or near aft >> elliptical head >> 9. >> >> Added sensors for main and auxiliary battery voltage and current, >> ambient water pressure and temperature, cabin pressure, temperature, and >> humidly, compass heading, boat roll and pitch, boat altitude and speed. >> Life support system has sensors for CO2, O2 concentrations, O2 tank >> pressure, mass rate of O2 during O2 makeup. Pressure sensor for HP air bank >> and regulated air pressure. >> 10. >> >> Increased main battery capacity to 400 Ah which required increasing >> the battery pod diameter to 16? OD and 47? seam to seam >> 11. >> >> Replaced the main and auxiliary battery banks with 16 OPTIMA >> BATTERIES BLUE TOP DEEP CYCLE MARINE BATTERY GROUP D34M. 12 for main >> buss and 4 for auxiliary buss. 8 batteries per pod >> 12. >> >> Widened the spacing on battery pods to 38? >> 13. >> >> Added two additional viewports >> 14. >> >> Added external LED lights >> 15. >> >> Added compass/pitch/roll sensors off R300 >> 16. >> >> Changed design of battery pods detachable heads to flange style >> 17. >> >> Redesigned the MBT and VBT controls. >> 18. >> >> Utilize Hugh Fulton pancake style pneumatically operated MBT vent >> valves >> 19. >> >> Modified MBTs by closing the bottoms >> 20. >> >> lengthened VBT to 18? seam to seam to increase the volume to 8.75 gals >> 21. >> >> Added compass/pitch/roll sensors off R300 >> 22. >> >> Built out boat in Autodesk Inventor professional. >> 23. >> >> Drawing package updated, 51 assembly drawings and 160 part drawings >> 24. >> >> With mods, the current boat weight is 4,707 lbs, without pilot or >> passenger >> 25. >> >> With mods, the current boat submerged displacement is 4,866 lbs, >> 26. >> >> Buoyancy of boat with VBT and MBT fully blown is 5,849 lbf >> 27. >> >> Boat Reserve of buoyancy is 9.2% >> >> Cliff >> >> On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Philippe Robert via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> Nice for the list ! I can't wait to read all the suggested modifications >>> ans specs ! >>> >>> Philippe >>> >>> >>> 2017-01-29 9:22 GMT-05:00 via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: >>> >>>> Emile, >>>> >>>> I actually already started a list on what I want to improve on the K350! >>>> >>>> I was actually thinking about having a 1 meter hull dia >>>> Improve depth rating to around 300 meters >>>> Look into improving the ballast tanks >>>> Have the thrusters be controlled by a joystick >>>> >>>> -Ludwig >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: emile via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> Sent: Sun, Jan 29, 2017 4:47 am >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans >>>> >>>> Ludwig, >>>> >>>> The K350 is a nice sub and the plans might be a good start . >>>> Mind some points are a bit outdated. >>>> >>>> If I build a K350: >>>> -1 meter hull dia (was 900mm) >>>> -improved ballast tanks >>>> -dome window in the bow >>>> >>>> Emile >>>> >>>> *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- >>>> bounces at psubs.org ] *Namens *via >>>> Personal_Submersibles >>>> *Verzonden:* zaterdag 28 januari 2017 23:36 >>>> *Aan:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>> *Onderwerp:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans >>>> >>>> Hey guys, >>>> >>>> Who should I contact regarding the purchasing of the K-350 plans? >>>> >>>> I bought the plans at the end of December and still haven't received >>>> them. I also sent an email off to sales at psubs.org around two weeks >>>> ago and haven't gotten a reply. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Ludwig >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 1 17:16:24 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 22:16:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans In-Reply-To: References: <01cc01d27a1c$fd7c9940$f875cbc0$@nl> <159ea9ab464-76e0-fad5@webprd-a105.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <570976723.3886371.1485987384457@mail.yahoo.com> Rick,the lights I am making are 80mm diameter x 70mm long.There is a 100mm flange for mounting that also holds the lens in.So it will fit in to a 80mm diameter hole & bolt or screw to surrounding material.The LEDs are 80W at 105 lm/W, so 8,400 lm. However I may not drive them thathard, depending on how hot they get in water.I am building a 1 person sub similar to Cliff's R300 & will be havingtwo arranged like car head lights + 1 either side, 1 looking backward& 1 slightly longer as a spot light.I may use the same design as navigation lights, with colored lenses & just backoff the power to them.Cheers Alan? From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans Hey Cliff That's quite a makeover! I agree, when I bought my plans, it seemed I was having to call Ketteredge a lot for clarification and would of welcomed a cleaned up set.? On another note, I am getting ready to fabricate all my external light housings and would like to hear from anyone who is using LED lighting in their housings as far as how many lumans they are and what diameter they are etc.? Thanks Rick On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:44 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Spent a couple of months last year working on the design of a modified K-350.? I found he original K-350 plans to be pretty weak.?Changes made were: - Removed aft external motor and prop and replacedwith two fixed Minn Kota 101 thruster with kort nozzle like I have on the R300 - Replaced vertical thrusters with two fixed MinnKota 101 thrusters with kort nozzle - Propulsion and depth station keeping all fly by wirewith joystick control - Move air tanks (two 100?SCF aluminum scuba?tanks)?outside hull old location of mainpropulsion motor - PLC for control of all systems (same as R300) - HMI and joystick on mobile to permit operationfrom prone, sitting or standing position. - Replaced life support with fully automated designused on R300 - Moved electrical components into threeelectrical boxes on or near aft?elliptical head - Added sensors for main and auxiliary batteryvoltage and current, ambient water pressure and temperature, cabin pressure,temperature, and humidly, compass heading, boat roll and pitch, boat altitudeand speed.? Life support system hassensors for CO2, O2 concentrations, O2 tank pressure, mass rate of O2 during O2makeup. Pressure sensor for HP air bank and regulated air pressure. - Increased main battery capacity to 400 Ah ?which required increasing the battery poddiameter to 16? OD and 47? seam to seam - Replaced the main and auxiliary battery banks with 16 OPTIMA BATTERIESBLUE TOP DEEP CYCLE MARINE BATTERY GROUP D34M.?12 for main buss and 4 for auxiliary buss. 8 batteries per pod - Widened the spacing on battery pods to 38? - Added two additional viewports - Added external LED lights - Added compass/pitch/roll sensors off R300 - Changed design of battery pods detachable heads toflange style - Redesigned the MBT and VBT controls.? - Utilize Hugh Fulton pancake style pneumaticallyoperated MBT vent valves - Modified MBTs by closing the bottoms - lengthened VBT to 18? seam to seam to increasethe volume to 8.75 gals - Added compass/pitch/roll sensors off R300 - Built out boat in Autodesk Inventorprofessional. - Drawing package updated, 51 assembly drawingsand 160 part drawings - With mods, the current boat weight is 4,707 lbs,without pilot or passenger - With mods, the current boat submergeddisplacement? is 4,866 lbs, - Buoyancy of boat with VBT and MBT fully blown is5,849 lbf - Boat Reserve of buoyancy is 9.2% Cliff On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nice for the list ! I can't wait to read all the suggested modifications ans specs ! Philippe 2017-01-29 9:22 GMT-05:00 via Personal_Submersibles : Emile, I actually already started a list on what I want to improve on the K350! I was actually thinking about having a 1 meter hull diaImprove depth rating to around 300 metersLook into improving the ballast tanksHave the thrusters be controlled by a joystick -Ludwig -----Original Message----- From: emile via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Sun, Jan 29, 2017 4:47 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans Ludwig,?The K350 is a nice sub and the plans might be a good start .Mind some points are a bit outdated.?If I build a K350:-1 meter hull dia? (was 900mm)-improved ballast tanks -dome window in the bow?Emile?Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- bounces at psubs.org] Namens via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zaterdag 28 januari 2017 23:36 Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.or g Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans?Hey guys, ?Who should I contact regarding the purchasing of the K-350 plans??I bought the plans at the end of December and still haven't received them.? I also sent an email off to sales at psubs.org around two weeks ago and haven't gotten a reply.?Thanks,Ludwig??______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 1 17:57:02 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 22:57:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: Penetrator Air Void Question/Concern In-Reply-To: <01a201d27cd3$007f92b0$017eb810$@indy.rr.com> References: <20170131145124.YDNUY.47052.root@cdptpa-web27> <231960501.2998458.1485899485435@mail.yahoo.com> <006301d27c13$597f6630$0c7e3290$@indy.rr.com> <13710745.936451.1485909561105@mail.yahoo.com> <01a201d27cd3$007f92b0$017eb810$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: <764824871.661629.1485989822472@mail.yahoo.com> Steve,It could very well seal fine if the wire bundle is tight with a smooth jacket. ?I have never used this technology, interesting and a real time saver.Hank On Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:35 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: To clarify the multiconductors are all contained within one jacket? ?From: Steve McQueen [mailto:psub101 at indy.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 4:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator Air Void Question/Concern ?Thanks Hank. The vendor literature for the Conax gland fitting implies that you can use it on a multiconductor cable but I am sure it is not the best scenario.? I will let you know what results I get. ?Steve ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 7:39 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator Air Void Question/Concern ?Steve,My first reaction was to say no worries, but, if the outside blue globe leaks even a little, you will have salt water sitting in the void. ?Either forget the inside blue globe or put a tee on the nipple and run the wires through that then into the inside blue globe. ?Then orient the tee so the open fitting is vertical, then fill with oil and cap it.HankThought you could not do multiple wires in a compression fitting? ?On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 3:43 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Alan, yes I think you understand my application.? Thanks for the feedback. I don?t think I will worry much about this.? Sometimes things are easier when you are only dealing with K-250 type depths : )?Steve?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 4:51 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator Air Void Question/Concern?Steve,if I am reading it right it doesn't seem a problem.This must be what Emile & Carsten do. They have a blue globeoutside & inside, & the cable between would have to travel througha void. The inner cable gland would be a back up for any leaks, & alsostop the cable extruding in to the hull.I am using them, & I have always been wary of the cross sectional make upof the wires; ie. if you have two wires in the cable can the cable sheath crushin an oblong shape & let water through the cable gland!Alan?From: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 3:51 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator Air Void Question/Concern All, I am running a multi conductor cable (11-12mm OD) for my 12V stern thruster thru an existing 1/2" pipe nipple in the aft head of my K-250. I am using a Blueglobe gland fitting (BG 220 VA, rated @ 1,160 psig) on the outboard pressure side of the nipple and a Conax gland (PG5-500-A-N,rated @ 800 psig) for the gland fitting inboard. I was originally only going to have interior Conax gland and let the pipe free flood.? Then I decided I wanted to have redundancy and keep the pipe interior dry to help prevent corrosion (it is old school (not SS)). My question:? Is the air void that will exist between the 2 gland fittings a concern? Think empty pipe with both ends capped. I'm thinking not... Thanks, Steve _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 1 20:45:31 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 17:45:31 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft Seals Message-ID: <20170201174531.FAC87E76@m0087791.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 1 21:15:34 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 02:15:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft Seals In-Reply-To: <20170201174531.FAC87E76@m0087791.ppops.net> References: <20170201174531.FAC87E76@m0087791.ppops.net> Message-ID: <303814420.565484.1486001734788@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,Make a speedy sleeve. ?No?biggyHank On Wednesday, February 1, 2017 6:45 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,??????????????? Got myself into bit of a bind,? my 2.5" OD by 1" ID shaft bearing is fine, but it turns out that they don't make a seal that exact size.? They have under and over ,? so what I might do is epoxy the two shaft seals together so I can get to where I need to be.?? They make a 2.5"OD by 1.25"ID? seal;? ?on my next motor pod I may change the propeller shaft to 1.25" just to make things easier !?Brian? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 1 21:26:55 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 16:26:55 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans In-Reply-To: <570976723.3886371.1485987384457@mail.yahoo.com> References: <01cc01d27a1c$fd7c9940$f875cbc0$@nl> <159ea9ab464-76e0-fad5@webprd-a105.mail.aol.com> <570976723.3886371.1485987384457@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hey Alan, Thanks for the input! Do you have any construction pictures of the lights and housings or just a finished picture? Rick On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > the lights I am making are 80mm diameter x 70mm long. > There is a 100mm flange for mounting that also holds the lens in. > So it will fit in to a 80mm diameter hole & bolt or screw to surrounding > material. > The LEDs are 80W at 105 lm/W, so 8,400 lm. However I may not drive them > that > hard, depending on how hot they get in water. > I am building a 1 person sub similar to Cliff's R300 & will be having > two arranged like car head lights + 1 either side, 1 looking backward > & 1 slightly longer as a spot light. > I may use the same design as navigation lights, with colored lenses & just > back > off the power to them. > Cheers Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, February 2, 2017 10:32 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans > > Hey Cliff > > That's quite a makeover! I agree, when I bought my plans, it seemed I was > having to call Ketteredge a lot for clarification and would of welcomed a > cleaned up set. > > On another note, I am getting ready to fabricate all my external light > housings and would like to hear from anyone who is using LED lighting in > their housings as far as how many lumans they are and what diameter they > are etc. > > Thanks > > Rick > > On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:44 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Spent a couple of months last year working on the design of a modified > K-350. I found he original K-350 plans to be pretty weak. Changes made > were: > > > 1. Removed aft external motor and prop and replaced with two fixed > Minn Kota 101 thruster with kort nozzle like I have on the R300 > 2. Replaced vertical thrusters with two fixed Minn Kota 101 thrusters > with kort nozzle > 3. Propulsion and depth station keeping all fly by wire with joystick > control > 4. Move air tanks (two 100 SCF aluminum scuba tanks) outside hull old > location of main propulsion motor > 5. PLC for control of all systems (same as R300) > 6. HMI and joystick on mobile to permit operation from prone, sitting > or standing position. > 7. Replaced life support with fully automated design used on R300 > 8. Moved electrical components into three electrical boxes on or near > aft elliptical head > 9. Added sensors for main and auxiliary battery voltage and current, > ambient water pressure and temperature, cabin pressure, temperature, and > humidly, compass heading, boat roll and pitch, boat altitude and speed. > Life support system has sensors for CO2, O2 concentrations, O2 tank > pressure, mass rate of O2 during O2 makeup. Pressure sensor for HP air bank > and regulated air pressure. > 10. Increased main battery capacity to 400 Ah which required > increasing the battery pod diameter to 16? OD and 47? seam to seam > 11. Replaced the main and auxiliary battery banks with 16 OPTIMA > BATTERIES BLUE TOP DEEP CYCLE MARINE BATTERY GROUP D34M. 12 for main > buss and 4 for auxiliary buss. 8 batteries per pod > 12. Widened the spacing on battery pods to 38? > 13. Added two additional viewports > 14. Added external LED lights > 15. Added compass/pitch/roll sensors off R300 > 16. Changed design of battery pods detachable heads to flange style > 17. Redesigned the MBT and VBT controls. > 18. Utilize Hugh Fulton pancake style pneumatically operated MBT vent > valves > 19. Modified MBTs by closing the bottoms > 20. lengthened VBT to 18? seam to seam to increase the volume to 8.75 > gals > 21. Added compass/pitch/roll sensors off R300 > 22. Built out boat in Autodesk Inventor professional. > 23. Drawing package updated, 51 assembly drawings and 160 part drawings > 24. With mods, the current boat weight is 4,707 lbs, without pilot or > passenger > 25. With mods, the current boat submerged displacement is 4,866 lbs, > 26. Buoyancy of boat with VBT and MBT fully blown is 5,849 lbf > 27. Boat Reserve of buoyancy is 9.2% > > Cliff > > On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Philippe Robert via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Nice for the list ! I can't wait to read all the suggested modifications > ans specs ! > > Philippe > > > 2017-01-29 9:22 GMT-05:00 via Personal_Submersibles rg >: > > Emile, > > I actually already started a list on what I want to improve on the K350! > > I was actually thinking about having a 1 meter hull dia > Improve depth rating to around 300 meters > Look into improving the ballast tanks > Have the thrusters be controlled by a joystick > > -Ludwig > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: emile via Personal_Submersibles > > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' rg > > Sent: Sun, Jan 29, 2017 4:47 am > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans > > Ludwig, > > The K350 is a nice sub and the plans might be a good start . > Mind some points are a bit outdated. > > If I build a K350: > -1 meter hull dia (was 900mm) > -improved ballast tanks > -dome window in the bow > > Emile > > *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org ] *Namens *via > Personal_Submersibles > > *Verzonden:* zaterdag 28 januari 2017 23:36 > *Aan:* personal_submersibles at psubs.or g > *Onderwerp:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans > > Hey guys, > > Who should I contact regarding the purchasing of the K-350 plans? > > I bought the plans at the end of December and still haven't received > them. I also sent an email off to sales at psubs.org around two weeks ago > and haven't gotten a reply. > > Thanks, > Ludwig > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 1 21:41:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 18:41:50 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft Seals Message-ID: <20170201184150.FACD569A@m0087797.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 1 22:23:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 19:23:50 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft Seals Message-ID: <20170201192350.FACD50AA@m0087797.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 1 23:47:23 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 17:47:23 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans In-Reply-To: References: <01cc01d27a1c$fd7c9940$f875cbc0$@nl> <159ea9ab464-76e0-fad5@webprd-a105.mail.aol.com> <570976723.3886371.1485987384457@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Rick, I am just finalising the design. I took a semi- finished light to a lighting expert friend today, who is going to analyse the LED for the optimum amperage. He says that finding the LEDs sweet spot will enable it to run cool enough for me to go with an acrylic lens rather than glass as I had intended. Will keep you in the loop with regard to progress, but shouldn't be too far off. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 2/02/2017, at 3:26 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hey Alan, > > Thanks for the input! Do you have any construction pictures of the lights and housings or just a finished picture? > > Rick > >> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Rick, >> the lights I am making are 80mm diameter x 70mm long. >> There is a 100mm flange for mounting that also holds the lens in. >> So it will fit in to a 80mm diameter hole & bolt or screw to surrounding material. >> The LEDs are 80W at 105 lm/W, so 8,400 lm. However I may not drive them that >> hard, depending on how hot they get in water. >> I am building a 1 person sub similar to Cliff's R300 & will be having >> two arranged like car head lights + 1 either side, 1 looking backward >> & 1 slightly longer as a spot light. >> I may use the same design as navigation lights, with colored lenses & just back >> off the power to them. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 10:32 AM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans >> >> Hey Cliff >> >> That's quite a makeover! I agree, when I bought my plans, it seemed I was having to call Ketteredge a lot for clarification and would of welcomed a cleaned up set. >> >> On another note, I am getting ready to fabricate all my external light housings and would like to hear from anyone who is using LED lighting in their housings as far as how many lumans they are and what diameter they are etc. >> >> Thanks >> >> Rick >> >> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:44 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Spent a couple of months last year working on the design of a modified K-350. I found he original K-350 plans to be pretty weak. Changes made were: >> >> Removed aft external motor and prop and replaced with two fixed Minn Kota 101 thruster with kort nozzle like I have on the R300 >> Replaced vertical thrusters with two fixed Minn Kota 101 thrusters with kort nozzle >> Propulsion and depth station keeping all fly by wire with joystick control >> Move air tanks (two 100 SCF aluminum scuba tanks) outside hull old location of main propulsion motor >> PLC for control of all systems (same as R300) >> HMI and joystick on mobile to permit operation from prone, sitting or standing position. >> Replaced life support with fully automated design used on R300 >> Moved electrical components into three electrical boxes on or near aft elliptical head >> Added sensors for main and auxiliary battery voltage and current, ambient water pressure and temperature, cabin pressure, temperature, and humidly, compass heading, boat roll and pitch, boat altitude and speed. Life support system has sensors for CO2, O2 concentrations, O2 tank pressure, mass rate of O2 during O2 makeup. Pressure sensor for HP air bank and regulated air pressure. >> Increased main battery capacity to 400 Ah which required increasing the battery pod diameter to 16? OD and 47? seam to seam >> Replaced the main and auxiliary battery banks with 16 OPTIMA BATTERIES BLUE TOP DEEP CYCLE MARINE BATTERY GROUP D34M. 12 for main buss and 4 for auxiliary buss. 8 batteries per pod >> Widened the spacing on battery pods to 38? >> Added two additional viewports >> Added external LED lights >> Added compass/pitch/roll sensors off R300 >> Changed design of battery pods detachable heads to flange style >> Redesigned the MBT and VBT controls. >> Utilize Hugh Fulton pancake style pneumatically operated MBT vent valves >> Modified MBTs by closing the bottoms >> lengthened VBT to 18? seam to seam to increase the volume to 8.75 gals >> Added compass/pitch/roll sensors off R300 >> Built out boat in Autodesk Inventor professional. >> Drawing package updated, 51 assembly drawings and 160 part drawings >> With mods, the current boat weight is 4,707 lbs, without pilot or passenger >> With mods, the current boat submerged displacement is 4,866 lbs, >> Buoyancy of boat with VBT and MBT fully blown is 5,849 lbf >> Boat Reserve of buoyancy is 9.2% >> Cliff >> >> On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Nice for the list ! I can't wait to read all the suggested modifications ans specs ! >> >> Philippe >> >> >> 2017-01-29 9:22 GMT-05:00 via Personal_Submersibles : >> Emile, >> >> I actually already started a list on what I want to improve on the K350! >> >> I was actually thinking about having a 1 meter hull dia >> Improve depth rating to around 300 meters >> Look into improving the ballast tanks >> Have the thrusters be controlled by a joystick >> >> -Ludwig >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: emile via Personal_Submersibles >> To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' >> Sent: Sun, Jan 29, 2017 4:47 am >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans >> >> Ludwig, >> >> The K350 is a nice sub and the plans might be a good start . >> Mind some points are a bit outdated. >> >> If I build a K350: >> -1 meter hull dia (was 900mm) >> -improved ballast tanks >> -dome window in the bow >> >> Emile >> >> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- bounces at psubs.org] Namens via Personal_Submersibles >> >> Verzonden: zaterdag 28 januari 2017 23:36 >> Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.or g >> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans >> >> Hey guys, >> >> Who should I contact regarding the purchasing of the K-350 plans? >> >> I bought the plans at the end of December and still haven't received them. I also sent an email off to sales at psubs.org around two weeks ago and haven't gotten a reply. >> >> Thanks, >> Ludwig >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 00:23:25 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 19:23:25 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans In-Reply-To: References: <01cc01d27a1c$fd7c9940$f875cbc0$@nl> <159ea9ab464-76e0-fad5@webprd-a105.mail.aol.com> <570976723.3886371.1485987384457@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sounds good Alan Rick On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 6:47 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Rick, > I am just finalising the design. I took a semi- finished light to a > lighting expert friend today, who is going to analyse the LED for the > optimum > amperage. He says that finding the LEDs sweet spot will enable it to run > cool > enough for me to go with an acrylic lens rather than glass as I had > intended. > Will keep you in the loop with regard to progress, but shouldn't be too > far off. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 2/02/2017, at 3:26 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hey Alan, > > Thanks for the input! Do you have any construction pictures of the lights > and housings or just a finished picture? > > Rick > > On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Rick, >> the lights I am making are 80mm diameter x 70mm long. >> There is a 100mm flange for mounting that also holds the lens in. >> So it will fit in to a 80mm diameter hole & bolt or screw to surrounding >> material. >> The LEDs are 80W at 105 lm/W, so 8,400 lm. However I may not drive them >> that >> hard, depending on how hot they get in water. >> I am building a 1 person sub similar to Cliff's R300 & will be having >> two arranged like car head lights + 1 either side, 1 looking backward >> & 1 slightly longer as a spot light. >> I may use the same design as navigation lights, with colored lenses & >> just back >> off the power to them. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Thursday, February 2, 2017 10:32 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans >> >> Hey Cliff >> >> That's quite a makeover! I agree, when I bought my plans, it seemed I was >> having to call Ketteredge a lot for clarification and would of welcomed a >> cleaned up set. >> >> On another note, I am getting ready to fabricate all my external light >> housings and would like to hear from anyone who is using LED lighting in >> their housings as far as how many lumans they are and what diameter they >> are etc. >> >> Thanks >> >> Rick >> >> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:44 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Spent a couple of months last year working on the design of a modified >> K-350. I found he original K-350 plans to be pretty weak. Changes made >> were: >> >> >> 1. Removed aft external motor and prop and replaced with two fixed >> Minn Kota 101 thruster with kort nozzle like I have on the R300 >> 2. Replaced vertical thrusters with two fixed Minn Kota 101 thrusters >> with kort nozzle >> 3. Propulsion and depth station keeping all fly by wire with joystick >> control >> 4. Move air tanks (two 100 SCF aluminum scuba tanks) outside hull old >> location of main propulsion motor >> 5. PLC for control of all systems (same as R300) >> 6. HMI and joystick on mobile to permit operation from prone, sitting >> or standing position. >> 7. Replaced life support with fully automated design used on R300 >> 8. Moved electrical components into three electrical boxes on or near >> aft elliptical head >> 9. Added sensors for main and auxiliary battery voltage and current, >> ambient water pressure and temperature, cabin pressure, temperature, and >> humidly, compass heading, boat roll and pitch, boat altitude and speed. >> Life support system has sensors for CO2, O2 concentrations, O2 tank >> pressure, mass rate of O2 during O2 makeup. Pressure sensor for HP air bank >> and regulated air pressure. >> 10. Increased main battery capacity to 400 Ah which required >> increasing the battery pod diameter to 16? OD and 47? seam to seam >> 11. Replaced the main and auxiliary battery banks with 16 OPTIMA >> BATTERIES BLUE TOP DEEP CYCLE MARINE BATTERY GROUP D34M. 12 for main >> buss and 4 for auxiliary buss. 8 batteries per pod >> 12. Widened the spacing on battery pods to 38? >> 13. Added two additional viewports >> 14. Added external LED lights >> 15. Added compass/pitch/roll sensors off R300 >> 16. Changed design of battery pods detachable heads to flange style >> 17. Redesigned the MBT and VBT controls. >> 18. Utilize Hugh Fulton pancake style pneumatically operated MBT vent >> valves >> 19. Modified MBTs by closing the bottoms >> 20. lengthened VBT to 18? seam to seam to increase the volume to 8.75 >> gals >> 21. Added compass/pitch/roll sensors off R300 >> 22. Built out boat in Autodesk Inventor professional. >> 23. Drawing package updated, 51 assembly drawings and 160 part >> drawings >> 24. With mods, the current boat weight is 4,707 lbs, without pilot or >> passenger >> 25. With mods, the current boat submerged displacement is 4,866 lbs, >> 26. Buoyancy of boat with VBT and MBT fully blown is 5,849 lbf >> 27. Boat Reserve of buoyancy is 9.2% >> >> Cliff >> >> On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Philippe Robert via >> Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: >> >> Nice for the list ! I can't wait to read all the suggested modifications >> ans specs ! >> >> Philippe >> >> >> 2017-01-29 9:22 GMT-05:00 via Personal_Submersibles > rg >: >> >> Emile, >> >> I actually already started a list on what I want to improve on the K350! >> >> I was actually thinking about having a 1 meter hull dia >> Improve depth rating to around 300 meters >> Look into improving the ballast tanks >> Have the thrusters be controlled by a joystick >> >> -Ludwig >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: emile via Personal_Submersibles > > >> To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > rg > >> Sent: Sun, Jan 29, 2017 4:47 am >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans >> >> Ludwig, >> >> The K350 is a nice sub and the plans might be a good start . >> Mind some points are a bit outdated. >> >> If I build a K350: >> -1 meter hull dia (was 900mm) >> -improved ballast tanks >> -dome window in the bow >> >> Emile >> >> *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- >> bounces at psubs.org ] *Namens *via >> Personal_Submersibles >> >> *Verzonden:* zaterdag 28 januari 2017 23:36 >> *Aan:* personal_submersibles at psubs.or g >> *Onderwerp:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans >> >> Hey guys, >> >> Who should I contact regarding the purchasing of the K-350 plans? >> >> I bought the plans at the end of December and still haven't received >> them. I also sent an email off to sales at psubs.org around two weeks ago >> and haven't gotten a reply. >> >> Thanks, >> Ludwig >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 08:25:08 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 13:25:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fuse location References: <805942938.188672.1486041908536.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <805942938.188672.1486041908536@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,I have been making changes to my battery arrangement ?and in doing that, I have had to instal the battery bank fuse (150a) to the negative terminal. ?there is no room on the positive. ?I want to confirm that it should make no difference. ?There is no grounding to the hull at all.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 11:38:06 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 11:38:06 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: New Ellipse Inertial Sensors: Upgraded Attitude, Heave, Resistance to Vi... Message-ID: <3b3135.5f24fd02.45c4ba6e@aol.com> Guys, I'm on the email list for SBG Systems regarding their inertial systems. They email me about four times per year, so it's not an intrusion. Below are some announcements about products and presentations at venues in February in Santa Clara, Denver, and San Diego. You might consider getting on their email list. Cheers, Jim ____________________________________ From: helene.l at sbg-systems.com To: jimtoddpsub at aol.com Sent: 2/2/2017 7:21:57 A.M. Central Standard Time Subj: New Ellipse Inertial Sensors: Upgraded Attitude, Heave, Resistance to Vibration SBG Systems releases a new version of the Ellipse Series, its popular product line of miniature inertial sensors. If you have trouble to display this message, please _read the online version_ (http://us10.campaign-archive1.com/?u=0cef263a9bc1eddb97b69ef21&id=078d52d708&e=591b50a906) . PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT (http://sbg-systems.us10.list-manage.com/ track/click?u=0cef263a9bc1eddb97b69ef21&id=971bfc1f3e&e=591b50a906) NEW Ellipse: Breakthrough Update on Miniature Inertial Sensors Dear James Todd , We are thrilled to announce the new version of the Ellipse Series. With major improvements, Ellipse strengthens its position as Best-in-Class miniature inertial sensor, while keeping the same form factor and price level. (http://sbg-systems.us10.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0cef263a9bc1eddb97b69ef21&id=9100fa7296&e=591b50a906) 2 X Performance Improvement All Ellipse sensors now deliver 0.1? roll and pitch at 200 Hz. IMU data are available at 1,000 Hz with very low latency. Higher Resistance to Vibration The new accelerometers bring an extreme vibration immunity to the Ellipse series. Sensors can now withstand up to 8g RMS. 2 X Heave Improvement The new Ellipse (Marine option - A2) delivers a 5-cm accurate heave which automatically adjusts to the wave period. (http://sbg-systems.us10.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0cef263a9bc1eddb97b69ef21&id=4ece775706&e=591b50a906) GALILEO Added to Ellipse-N With the addition of GALILEO tracking, Ellipse-N benefits from more satellites, improving the signal robustness in harsh environments. _MORE INFO_ (http://sbg-systems.us10.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=0cef263a9bc1eddb97b69ef21&id=022316bcc2&e=591b50a906) OCEANOLOGY INTERNATIONAL February 14-16, San Diego, CA, USA We look forward meeting you during this very first edition of Oceanology International in the U.S. _MORE INFO_ (http://sbg-systems.us10.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=0cef263a9bc1eddb97b69ef21&id=4e1a0c7535&e=591b50a906) INTERNATIONAL LiDAR MAPPING FORUM February 13-15, Denver, Colorado, USA Meet us booth #45 during an event focused exclusively on LiDAR systems and technologies. _MORE INFO_ (http://sbg-systems.us10.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0cef263a9bc1eddb97b69ef21&id=1f7576e710&e=591b50a906) AUTONOMOUS VEHICLES SILICON VALLEY Feb 28 - March 2, Santa Clara, CA, USA Explore the latest innovations with us during the Autonomous Vehicles Summit. _MORE INFO_ (http://sbg-systems.us10.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0cef263a9bc1eddb97b69ef21&id=e7c26f635f&e=591b50a906) SBG Systems EMEA (Headquarters) sales at sbg-systems.com | +33 1 80 88 45 00 SBG Systems North America sales.usa at sbg-systems.com | +1 (657) 845 1771 Worldwide Distributors _www.sbg-systems.com/company/distributors_ (http://sbg-systems.us10.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0cef263a9bc1eddb97b69ef21&id=b90d685390&e=591b50a906) (http://sbg-systems.us10.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0cef263a9bc1eddb97b69ef21&id=29867cdc91&e=591b50a906) (http://sbg-systems.us10.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0cef263a9bc1eddb97b69ef21&id=8d58ad8c82&e=591b50a906) (http://sbg-systems.us10.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0cef263a9bc1eddb97b69ef21&id=0f7b71134d&e=591b50a9 06) (http://sbg-systems.us10.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0cef263a9bc1eddb97b69ef21&id=ff33d0a77f&e=591b50a906) (http://sbg-systems.us10.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0cef263a9bc1eddb97b69ef21&id=c99 d59f7fa&e=591b50a906) This email was sent to jimtoddpsub at aol.com _why did I get this?_ (http://sbg-systems.us10.list-manage.com/about?u=0cef263a9bc1eddb97b69ef21&id=5f4a7f3820&e=591b50a906&c=078d52d708) _unsubscribe from this list_ (http://sbg-systems.us10.list-manage.com/unsubscribe?u=0cef263a9bc1eddb97b69ef21&id=5f4a7f3820&e=591b50a906&c=078d52d708) _update subscription preferences_ (http://sbg-systems.us10.list-manage1.com/profile?u=0cef263a9bc1eddb97b69ef21&id=5f4a7f3820&e=591b50a906) SBG Systems ? 3 bis chemin de la Jonchere ? Rueil-malmaison 92500 ? France -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 11:48:36 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 11:48:36 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fuse location Message-ID: <3b4dc5.3d00c463.45c4bce4@aol.com> Hank, What happens if something in your system accidentally grounds or shorts? Jim In a message dated 2/2/2017 7:28:24 A.M. Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Hi All, I have been making changes to my battery arrangement and in doing that, I have had to instal the battery bank fuse (150a) to the negative terminal. there is no room on the positive. I want to confirm that it should make no difference. There is no grounding to the hull at all. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 12:33:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 17:33:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fuse location In-Reply-To: <3b4dc5.3d00c463.45c4bce4@aol.com> References: <3b4dc5.3d00c463.45c4bce4@aol.com> Message-ID: <1995696162.364484.1486056823215@mail.yahoo.com> Jim,The only way it can short is if it shorts through the negative side, and that is where the fuse is. ??Hank On Thursday, February 2, 2017 9:48 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,What happens if something in your system accidentally grounds or shorts?Jim?In a message dated 2/2/2017 7:28:24 A.M. Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Hi All, I have been making changes to my battery arrangement ?and in doing that, I have had to instal the battery bank fuse (150a) to the negative terminal. ?there is no room on the positive. ?I want to confirm that it should make no difference. ?There is no grounding to the hull at all. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 12:41:18 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 17:41:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance References: <1306037142.379050.1486057278187.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1306037142.379050.1486057278187@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,I have made a second scrubber for Gamma \ Elementary, they are good at sharing ;-) ?The new scrubber is an axial design because the re-breather scrubber works real well if it is used manually for some weird reason. ?My question is, what is the CO2 ppm that you guys are averaging? ?Is anyone doing better than 2500ppm?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 13:01:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 12:01:50 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <1306037142.379050.1486057278187@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1306037142.379050.1486057278187.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1306037142.379050.1486057278187@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I typically run from 1200 to 1500 ppm of CO2. Cliff Sent from my iPad > On Feb 2, 2017, at 11:41 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > I have made a second scrubber for Gamma \ Elementary, they are good at sharing ;-) The new scrubber is an axial design because the re-breather scrubber works real well if it is used manually for some weird reason. My question is, what is the CO2 ppm that you guys are averaging? Is anyone doing better than 2500ppm? > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 13:15:33 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 08:15:33 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft Seals In-Reply-To: <20170201192350.FACD50AA@m0087797.ppops.net> References: <20170201192350.FACD50AA@m0087797.ppops.net> Message-ID: I was asked about my gas analyzer the other day which I've had for 11 years and after checking into it, the company "Biosystems Inc." had been sold to Honeywell and my unit was discontinued and can't even get it worked on or buy new sensors as of last year. It did 4 gasses but C02 wasn't one of them as I used it for something else. Brandt instruments in Prariyville LA. has a system that does only O2 & C02 only and sells for $1,205 for the Alkalide battery set up. They said that the replacement sensor for the Co2 was about $1,000 though! I guess I,ll use my old one now as an expensive paper weight! ? Rick On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Interesting ! , found their website > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft Seals > Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 18:41:50 -0800 > > > Speedy sleeve ? > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft Seals > Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 02:15:34 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, > Make a speedy sleeve. No biggy > Hank > > > On Wednesday, February 1, 2017 6:45 PM, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi All, > Got myself into bit of a bind, my 2.5" OD by 1" ID shaft > bearing is fine, but it turns out that they don't make a seal that exact > size. They have under and over , so what I might do is epoxy the two > shaft seals together so I can get to where I need to be. They make a > 2.5"OD by 1.25"ID seal; on my next motor pod I may change the propeller > shaft to 1.25" just to make things easier ! > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 13:23:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 19:23:50 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <1306037142.379050.1486057278187@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1306037142.379050.1486057278187.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1306037142.379050.1486057278187@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <05bb01d27d81$80338940$809a9bc0$@nl> Hank, I am doing 2000-4000 with a 3 person crew . Scrubbers in rebreathers can go near 0% as warm , moist and CO2 rich air is blown directly into the absorbent. Air in a sub is usually cold and needs to build up some CO2 in the hull before it start working.. Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: donderdag 2 februari 2017 18:41 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Hi All, I have made a second scrubber for Gamma \ Elementary, they are good at sharing ;-) The new scrubber is an axial design because the re-breather scrubber works real well if it is used manually for some weird reason. My question is, what is the CO2 ppm that you guys are averaging? Is anyone doing better than 2500ppm? Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 13:36:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 19:36:49 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft Seals/ CO2 In-Reply-To: References: <20170201192350.FACD50AA@m0087797.ppops.net> Message-ID: <05d001d27d83$509c6420$f1d52c60$@nl> Rick, All I use this as a cheap alternative. https://www.conrad.nl/nl/extech-co100-luchtkwaliteitsmeter-103741.html Up to 10.000 ppm. Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: donderdag 2 februari 2017 19:16 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft Seals I was asked about my gas analyzer the other day which I've had for 11 years and after checking into it, the company "Biosystems Inc." had been sold to Honeywell and my unit was discontinued and can't even get it worked on or buy new sensors as of last year. It did 4 gasses but C02 wasn't one of them as I used it for something else. Brandt instruments in Prariyville LA. has a system that does only O2 & C02 only and sells for $1,205 for the Alkalide battery set up. They said that the replacement sensor for the Co2 was about $1,000 though! I guess I,ll use my old one now as an expensive paper weight! ? Rick On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Interesting ! , found their website --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft Seals Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 18:41:50 -0800 Speedy sleeve ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft Seals Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 02:15:34 +0000 (UTC) Brian, Make a speedy sleeve. No biggy Hank On Wednesday, February 1, 2017 6:45 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, Got myself into bit of a bind, my 2.5" OD by 1" ID shaft bearing is fine, but it turns out that they don't make a seal that exact size. They have under and over , so what I might do is epoxy the two shaft seals together so I can get to where I need to be. They make a 2.5"OD by 1.25"ID seal; on my next motor pod I may change the propeller shaft to 1.25" just to make things easier ! Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 13:51:03 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 08:51:03 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft Seals/ CO2 In-Reply-To: <05d001d27d83$509c6420$f1d52c60$@nl> References: <20170201192350.FACD50AA@m0087797.ppops.net> <05d001d27d83$509c6420$f1d52c60$@nl> Message-ID: Emile, Thanks. does it do 02 as well? and do they have a USA rep? Rick On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 8:36 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, All > > > > I use this as a cheap alternative. > > https://www.conrad.nl/nl/extech-co100-luchtkwaliteitsmeter-103741.html > > Up to 10.000 ppm. > > > > Br, Emile > > > > *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > *Verzonden:* donderdag 2 februari 2017 19:16 > *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft Seals > > > > I was asked about my gas analyzer the other day which I've had for 11 > years and after checking into it, the company "Biosystems Inc." had been > sold to Honeywell and my unit was discontinued and can't even get it worked > on or buy new sensors as of last year. It did 4 gasses but C02 wasn't one > of them as I used it for something else. > > Brandt instruments in Prariyville LA. has a system that does only O2 & C02 > only and sells for $1,205 for the Alkalide battery set up. They said that > the replacement sensor for the Co2 was about $1,000 though! > > I guess I,ll use my old one now as an expensive paper weight! ? > > > > Rick > > > > On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Interesting ! , found their website > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft Seals > Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 18:41:50 -0800 > > > > Speedy sleeve ? > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft Seals > Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 02:15:34 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, > > Make a speedy sleeve. No biggy > > Hank > > > > On Wednesday, February 1, 2017 6:45 PM, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > Got myself into bit of a bind, my 2.5" OD by 1" ID shaft > bearing is fine, but it turns out that they don't make a seal that exact > size. They have under and over , so what I might do is epoxy the two > shaft seals together so I can get to where I need to be. They make a > 2.5"OD by 1.25"ID seal; on my next motor pod I may change the propeller > shaft to 1.25" just to make things easier ! > > > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 14:03:30 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 19:03:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <862588978.432122.1486062210752@mail.yahoo.com> Rick,I use this altair-4 ?and it is a dream, I carry two of them and sensor is 110 CHank On Thursday, February 2, 2017 12:01 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: javascript:; -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2017-02-02 at 12.01 PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 4518 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 14:06:21 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 19:06:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber References: <1863018949.433384.1486062381311.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1863018949.433384.1486062381311@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks' guys, that helps. ?Cliff, I assume you have an axial scrubberHank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 14:08:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 19:08:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 sensor References: <1651641383.467345.1486062536794.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1651641383.467345.1486062536794@mail.yahoo.com> Rick,I used to use a cheap little 24 month O2 sensor and I really liked it. ?I switched to the Altair sensor because someone gave them to me.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 14:34:34 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 08:34:34 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 sensor In-Reply-To: <1651641383.467345.1486062536794@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1651641383.467345.1486062536794.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1651641383.467345.1486062536794@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5B980784-CDA8-476C-B8D4-CE2D73F2084F@yahoo.com> Rick, Nuytco sell O2 sensors. Phil said they had a lot of problems in the past with various O2 sensors & are happy with their current one. I think it was purpose built for them. I believe the marine environment can stuff them up. You can die without noticing it by scrubbing out the CO2 & not feeding in any O2. I am not sure how long it would take in a K350. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/02/2017, at 8:08 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Rick, > I used to use a cheap little 24 month O2 sensor and I really liked it. I switched to the Altair sensor because someone gave them to me. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 15:31:58 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 21:31:58 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft Seals/ CO2 In-Reply-To: References: <20170201192350.FACD50AA@m0087797.ppops.net> <05d001d27d83$509c6420$f1d52c60$@nl> Message-ID: <05ff01d27d93$68be9270$3a3bb750$@nl> Rick, No O2 . I prefer to have a separate O2 monitor . Better when one breaks down. It seems a US based company. http://www.extech.com/category/?id=14861 Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: donderdag 2 februari 2017 19:51 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft Seals/ CO2 Emile, Thanks. does it do 02 as well? and do they have a USA rep? Rick On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 8:36 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, All I use this as a cheap alternative. https://www.conrad.nl/nl/extech-co100-luchtkwaliteitsmeter-103741.html Up to 10.000 ppm. Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: donderdag 2 februari 2017 19:16 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft Seals I was asked about my gas analyzer the other day which I've had for 11 years and after checking into it, the company "Biosystems Inc." had been sold to Honeywell and my unit was discontinued and can't even get it worked on or buy new sensors as of last year. It did 4 gasses but C02 wasn't one of them as I used it for something else. Brandt instruments in Prariyville LA. has a system that does only O2 & C02 only and sells for $1,205 for the Alkalide battery set up. They said that the replacement sensor for the Co2 was about $1,000 though! I guess I,ll use my old one now as an expensive paper weight! ? Rick On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Interesting ! , found their website --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft Seals Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 18:41:50 -0800 Speedy sleeve ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft Seals Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 02:15:34 +0000 (UTC) Brian, Make a speedy sleeve. No biggy Hank On Wednesday, February 1, 2017 6:45 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, Got myself into bit of a bind, my 2.5" OD by 1" ID shaft bearing is fine, but it turns out that they don't make a seal that exact size. They have under and over , so what I might do is epoxy the two shaft seals together so I can get to where I need to be. They make a 2.5"OD by 1.25"ID seal; on my next motor pod I may change the propeller shaft to 1.25" just to make things easier ! Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 15:37:01 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 15:37:01 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Message-ID: I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on these units from COZIR. http://www.co2meter.com/products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensor They're only about $70US, have built in self calibration, super reliable, and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The big rub is that it isn't analog output, but serial. You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the scrubber, other sensors, etc. I have an identical system built for the health department currently running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across the city in the elements. They are that good. I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so I've been thinking about life support lately. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 16:30:12 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 10:30:12 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That looks good River. They have a sensor pump kit add on. http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/gas-sensor-micro-pump Is this necessary? Does the unit need to be put in an air flow? I noticed other add ons, like water filter. Any recommendations regarding required add ons. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/02/2017, at 9:37 AM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on these units from COZIR. > http://www.co2meter.com/products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensor > > They're only about $70US, have built in self calibration, super reliable, and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The big rub is that it isn't analog output, but serial. > > You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the scrubber, other sensors, etc. > > I have an identical system built for the health department currently running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across the city in the elements. They are that good. > > I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so I've been thinking about life support lately. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 17:29:34 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 16:29:34 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber In-Reply-To: <1863018949.433384.1486062381311@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1863018949.433384.1486062381311.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1863018949.433384.1486062381311@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Started life with axial scrubber but now use radial design. Has worked much better for me. Cliff Sent from my iPad > On Feb 2, 2017, at 1:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks' guys, that helps. > Cliff, I assume you have an axial scrubber > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 17:46:57 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 16:46:57 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <09EAACC2-6221-4879-A137-ADE7EABDEA40@gmail.com> I have had good performance from this company but with their K30 sensor. $85 and does give 0-5v analog output signal. It span is 0-10,000 ppm (0-2%). Cliff Sent from my iPad > On Feb 2, 2017, at 2:37 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on these units from COZIR. > http://www.co2meter.com/products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensor > > They're only about $70US, have built in self calibration, super reliable, and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The big rub is that it isn't analog output, but serial. > > You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the scrubber, other sensors, etc. > > I have an identical system built for the health department currently running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across the city in the elements. They are that good. > > I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so I've been thinking about life support lately. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 18:12:52 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 23:12:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber In-Reply-To: References: <1863018949.433384.1486062381311.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1863018949.433384.1486062381311@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1219036942.614686.1486077172632@mail.yahoo.com> I am a dope, lol, I was mixed up on the?terminology , I had an axial and have just installed a new radial scrubber.Hank On Thursday, February 2, 2017 3:29 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Started life with axial scrubber but now use radial design. ?Has worked much better for me. Cliff Sent from my iPad On Feb 2, 2017, at 1:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks' guys, that helps. ?Cliff, I assume you have an axial scrubberHank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 18:20:20 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 23:20:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] speed controllers References: <1007801938.624098.1486077620167.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1007801938.624098.1486077620167@mail.yahoo.com> Today I have started mounting my speed controllers in Gamma, I had to extend the wires for the potentiometer. ?I hope that is okay? ?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 18:49:13 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 18:49:13 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Message-ID: We haven't been using a pump in outdoor operations. Blowing air across it won't change the ultimate reading , but will decrease the response time. I'm planning on putting a mount for this sensor at the inlet of the scrubber. The action of the fan moves air across the sensor for quicker response, but it's still exposed enough to get readings when the fan is off. Yet again, you will need slightly fancier electronics to read it, since it does output an RS232 digital signal, not analog. However, this does give you more control and makes it easier to calibrate. > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 10:30:12 +1300 > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > That looks good River. > They have a sensor pump kit add on. > http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/ > products/gas-sensor-micro-pump > Is this necessary? Does the unit need to be put in an air flow? > I noticed other add ons, like water filter. Any recommendations regarding > required add ons. > Alan > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 18:53:31 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 18:53:31 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sodium Chlorate Candles? Message-ID: Has anyone here ever tried to cook a sodium chlorate candle for emergency oxygen generation? It seems that having a shelf stable, non pressurized oxygen source would be useful in a standard K250 or 350 that might not have an oxygen tank. What are the downsides of this approach? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 20:21:41 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Frankie Bowman via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 20:21:41 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 44, Issue 14 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: DHello everyone my name is Frank Bowman I live in Tampa Florida I am currently accumulating parts to build a k250 sub I have loved this model for years since I saw one on the side of the road in key west! I have always wanted to build one and I'm finally going to do it! Our bay is only 20feet deep on a good day except for in the sipping channel wich is 43 feet and much to busy to play in I plan on building the sub to the original plans that I will be purchasing soon any recommendations on acrylic thickness for the depth of water I'll be diving in and ideas on hatches would be greatly appreciated! On Feb 2, 2017 6:18 PM, "via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: 1. scrubber performance (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) 2. Re: scrubber performance (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) 3. Re: co2 scrubber (via Personal_Submersibles) 4. Re: scrubber performance (via Personal_Submersibles) 5. Re: co2 scrubber (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 15:37:01 -0500 From: River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on these units from COZIR. http://www.co2meter.com/products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensor They're only about $70US, have built in self calibration, super reliable, and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The big rub is that it isn't analog output, but serial. You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the scrubber, other sensors, etc. I have an identical system built for the health department currently running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across the city in the elements. They are that good. I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so I've been thinking about life support lately. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 10:30:12 +1300 From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" That looks good River. They have a sensor pump kit add on. http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/ products/gas-sensor-micro-pump Is this necessary? Does the unit need to be put in an air flow? I noticed other add ons, like water filter. Any recommendations regarding required add ons. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/02/2017, at 9:37 AM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on these units from COZIR. > http://www.co2meter.com/products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensor > > They're only about $70US, have built in self calibration, super reliable, and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The big rub is that it isn't analog output, but serial. > > You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the scrubber, other sensors, etc. > > I have an identical system built for the health department currently running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across the city in the elements. They are that good. > > I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so I've been thinking about life support lately. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 16:29:34 -0600 From: via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Started life with axial scrubber but now use radial design. Has worked much better for me. Cliff Sent from my iPad > On Feb 2, 2017, at 1:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks' guys, that helps. > Cliff, I assume you have an axial scrubber > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 16:46:57 -0600 From: via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Message-ID: <09EAACC2-6221-4879-A137-ADE7EABDEA40 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have had good performance from this company but with their K30 sensor. $85 and does give 0-5v analog output signal. It span is 0-10,000 ppm (0-2%). Cliff Sent from my iPad > On Feb 2, 2017, at 2:37 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on these units from COZIR. > http://www.co2meter.com/products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensor > > They're only about $70US, have built in self calibration, super reliable, and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The big rub is that it isn't analog output, but serial. > > You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the scrubber, other sensors, etc. > > I have an identical system built for the health department currently running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across the city in the elements. They are that good. > > I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so I've been thinking about life support lately. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 23:12:52 +0000 (UTC) From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber Message-ID: <1219036942.614686.1486077172632 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I am a dope, lol, I was mixed up on the?terminology , I had an axial and have just installed a new radial scrubber.Hank On Thursday, February 2, 2017 3:29 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Started life with axial scrubber but now use radial design. ?Has worked much better for me. Cliff Sent from my iPad On Feb 2, 2017, at 1:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Thanks' guys, that helps. ?Cliff, I assume you have an axial scrubberHank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 44, Issue 14 ***************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 20:50:33 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 17:50:33 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <09EAACC2-6221-4879-A137-ADE7EABDEA40@gmail.com> References: <09EAACC2-6221-4879-A137-ADE7EABDEA40@gmail.com> Message-ID: Cliff, Thanks for answering the question I was just going to ask. Did you build any special case to mount for replacement? I need to back and see the line of code you used so I can use it in my DoMore PLC Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 2:46 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I have had good performance from this company but with their K30 sensor. > $85 and does give 0-5v analog output signal. It span is 0-10,000 ppm > (0-2%). > > Cliff > > Sent from my iPad > > On Feb 2, 2017, at 2:37 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I > was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on > these units from COZIR. > http://www.co2meter.com/products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensor > > They're only about $70US, have built in self calibration, super reliable, > and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The big rub is > that it isn't analog output, but serial. > > You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy > enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, > trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the scrubber, > other sensors, etc. > > I have an identical system built for the health department currently > running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across the > city in the elements. They are that good. > > I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so I've > been thinking about life support lately. > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 21:45:59 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 16:45:59 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft Seals/ CO2 In-Reply-To: <05ff01d27d93$68be9270$3a3bb750$@nl> References: <20170201192350.FACD50AA@m0087797.ppops.net> <05d001d27d83$509c6420$f1d52c60$@nl> <05ff01d27d93$68be9270$3a3bb750$@nl> Message-ID: Thanks Emile! Rick On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 10:31 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > > > > No O2 . I prefer to have a separate O2 monitor . Better when one breaks > down. > > > > It seems a US based company. http://www.extech.com/category/?id=14861 > > > > > > Emile > > > > *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > *Verzonden:* donderdag 2 februari 2017 19:51 > *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft Seals/ CO2 > > > > Emile, > > > > Thanks. does it do 02 as well? and do they have a USA rep? > > > > Rick > > > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 8:36 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Rick, All > > > > I use this as a cheap alternative. > > https://www.conrad.nl/nl/extech-co100-luchtkwaliteitsmeter-103741.html > > Up to 10.000 ppm. > > > > Br, Emile > > > > *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > *Verzonden:* donderdag 2 februari 2017 19:16 > *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft Seals > > > > I was asked about my gas analyzer the other day which I've had for 11 > years and after checking into it, the company "Biosystems Inc." had been > sold to Honeywell and my unit was discontinued and can't even get it worked > on or buy new sensors as of last year. It did 4 gasses but C02 wasn't one > of them as I used it for something else. > > Brandt instruments in Prariyville LA. has a system that does only O2 & C02 > only and sells for $1,205 for the Alkalide battery set up. They said that > the replacement sensor for the Co2 was about $1,000 though! > > I guess I,ll use my old one now as an expensive paper weight! ? > > > > Rick > > > > On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Interesting ! , found their website > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft Seals > Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 18:41:50 -0800 > > > > Speedy sleeve ? > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shaft Seals > Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 02:15:34 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, > > Make a speedy sleeve. No biggy > > Hank > > > > On Wednesday, February 1, 2017 6:45 PM, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > Got myself into bit of a bind, my 2.5" OD by 1" ID shaft > bearing is fine, but it turns out that they don't make a seal that exact > size. They have under and over , so what I might do is epoxy the two > shaft seals together so I can get to where I need to be. They make a > 2.5"OD by 1.25"ID seal; on my next motor pod I may change the propeller > shaft to 1.25" just to make things easier ! > > > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 22:13:00 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Frankie Bowman via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 22:13:00 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] The new guy k250 build In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey my name is frank building a k250 I'm only operating at 20 feet deep any suggestions on acrylic dome thicknesses? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 2 23:04:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 22:04:43 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: References: <09EAACC2-6221-4879-A137-ADE7EABDEA40@gmail.com> Message-ID: David, hope that you have made some progress on the design work for SeaQuester. When I first installed life support on the R300, I had sensors distributed all over the boat. What I have move to is packaging all the Life Support related sensors in a single electrical box I call the AMOC module. AMOC is an acronym for Air Management and Oxygen Control. This made it easier to maintain the system and made it easy to bench test. I feed HP O2 from an external tank to this box. It in turn breaks the pressure and emits the O2 to keep the mole percent balanced. The PLC interfaces with the AMOC unit to monitor and control the air in the cabin. If you are interested, send me your email address to cliffordredus at sbcglobal.net and I will send you the DCI for the drawings associated with the AMOC unit and the drawings. The axial flow scrubber I use is the same one Alec used for Snoopy. It has worked great. The PLC ladder logic code around the life support system is pretty straight forward. What I like about the system is that it automatically compensates for different sized humans in the boat but yet retains a manual mode in the event both the main and auxiliary power are lost. The assembly drawing for the AMOC unit details all the sensors as well as all the Swagelok fittings and circular disconnect. This unit should work well with the AutomationDirect DoMore CPU you have. Cliff On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 7:50 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, Thanks for answering the question I was just going to ask. Did you > build any special case to mount for replacement? I need to back and see the > line of code you used so I can use it in my DoMore PLC > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 2:46 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> I have had good performance from this company but with their K30 sensor. >> $85 and does give 0-5v analog output signal. It span is 0-10,000 ppm >> (0-2%). >> >> Cliff >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Feb 2, 2017, at 2:37 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I >> was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on >> these units from COZIR. >> http://www.co2meter.com/products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensor >> >> They're only about $70US, have built in self calibration, super reliable, >> and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The big rub is >> that it isn't analog output, but serial. >> >> You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy >> enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, >> trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the scrubber, >> other sensors, etc. >> >> I have an identical system built for the health department currently >> running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across the >> city in the elements. They are that good. >> >> I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so I've >> been thinking about life support lately. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 3 00:36:41 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 21:36:41 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber Message-ID: <20170202213641.2615015@m0087793.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 3 00:40:33 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 21:40:33 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] The new guy k250 build Message-ID: <20170202214033.26150EA@m0087793.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 3 01:52:19 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 22:52:19 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: References: <09EAACC2-6221-4879-A137-ADE7EABDEA40@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Cliff, Its been slow going as I am finishing building my home. Should be finished in 45 days. But I have been making progress as I learn PLC coding and ladder logic in the evenings. Currently I am working thru the flight Joy Stick switch controls combined with a 4 position joystick base to control the (2) forward canard wings, (2) vertical thrusters (2) horizontal thrusters, and (2) vectored rear thrusters to have a flight experience. I spend many hours in the evening when my wife is not looking waving my hands thru the air simulating flight and then coding the switches needed to make the maneuver. I'm sure it would be entertaining to record a video. I am curious, are you using any gyroscopic sensors for pitch and roll? I'm thinking I need to have some build into the coding so as to limit my human abilities as safety overrides. The next step is to get a bench setup with the joystick and canard wings to run tests on the coding and for flight training purposes. Just need to finish the house first. Mean while I'll be waving my hands in the air for a while. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, hope that you have made some progress on the design work for > SeaQuester. When I first installed life support on the R300, I had sensors > distributed all over the boat. What I have move to is packaging all the > Life Support related sensors in a single electrical box I call the AMOC > module. AMOC is an acronym for Air Management and Oxygen Control. This > made it easier to maintain the system and made it easy to bench test. I > feed HP O2 from an external tank to this box. It in turn breaks the > pressure and emits the O2 to keep the mole percent balanced. The PLC > interfaces with the AMOC unit to monitor and control the air in the cabin. > If you are interested, send me your email address to > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.net and I will send you the DCI for the drawings > associated with the AMOC unit and the drawings. The axial flow scrubber I > use is the same one Alec used for Snoopy. It has worked great. The PLC > ladder logic code around the life support system is pretty straight > forward. What I like about the system is that it automatically compensates > for different sized humans in the boat but yet retains a manual mode in the > event both the main and auxiliary power are lost. The assembly drawing for > the AMOC unit details all the sensors as well as all the Swagelok fittings > and circular disconnect. This unit should work well with the > AutomationDirect DoMore CPU you have. > > Cliff > > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 7:50 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Cliff, Thanks for answering the question I was just going to ask. Did >> you build any special case to mount for replacement? I need to back and see >> the line of code you used so I can use it in my DoMore PLC >> >> Best Regards, >> David Colombo >> >> 804 College Ave >> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >> (707) 536-1424 >> www.SeaQuestor.com >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 2:46 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> I have had good performance from this company but with their K30 sensor. >>> $85 and does give 0-5v analog output signal. It span is 0-10,000 ppm >>> (0-2%). >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 2:37 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I >>> was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on >>> these units from COZIR. >>> http://www.co2meter.com/products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensor >>> >>> They're only about $70US, have built in self calibration, super >>> reliable, and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The big >>> rub is that it isn't analog output, but serial. >>> >>> You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy >>> enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, >>> trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the scrubber, >>> other sensors, etc. >>> >>> I have an identical system built for the health department currently >>> running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across the >>> city in the elements. They are that good. >>> >>> I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so I've >>> been thinking about life support lately. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 3 02:53:31 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 08:53:31 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] The new guy k250 build In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <067801d27df2$9cc63a00$d652ae00$@nl> Hi Frank, Welcome to the Group. As Brian said it is better to design the sub for deeper. The safety factor is also higher on a shallow diver.. Attached a useful table from the GL. 1Bar is 10 meter/ 30 Ft dive depth Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Frankie Bowman via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 3 februari 2017 4:13 Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] The new guy k250 build Hey my name is frank building a k250 I'm only operating at 20 feet deep any suggestions on acrylic dome thicknesses? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AcrylicdomesGermanischerLloyd01.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 425643 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 3 03:00:16 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:00:16 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sodium Chlorate Candles? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <067e01d27df3$8e70fca0$ab52f5e0$@nl> River, As far as I know is this not been used in private / research subs since 1620 Pressurized O2 is much more practical. Even the smallest bottle will provide hours of breathing.. Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 3 februari 2017 0:54 Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sodium Chlorate Candles? Has anyone here ever tried to cook a sodium chlorate candle for emergency oxygen generation? It seems that having a shelf stable, non pressurized oxygen source would be useful in a standard K250 or 350 that might not have an oxygen tank. What are the downsides of this approach? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 3 03:31:02 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:31:02 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber In-Reply-To: <20170202213641.2615015@m0087793.ppops.net> References: <20170202213641.2615015@m0087793.ppops.net> Message-ID: <06a601d27df7$daf8fab0$90eaf010$@nl> http://www.psubs.org/design/lifesupport/scrubber.pdf E. Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 3 februari 2017 6:37 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber What is the difference between a Axial scrubber and a radial ? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 16:29:34 -0600 Started life with axial scrubber but now use radial design. Has worked much better for me. Cliff Sent from my iPad On Feb 2, 2017, at 1:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks' guys, that helps. Cliff, I assume you have an axial scrubber Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 3 06:05:19 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 11:05:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 44, Issue 14 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <352488007.245181.1486119919279@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Frankie,welcome along.I'm from New Zealand. I went to a Psubs conference down in Islamorada a couple of yearsago. Alec?put his K250 "Snoopy" on the auto train & came down from Washington; so don't think you are limited to the local depth. Doug now owns "Snoopy" & has had it diving in Islamorada recently.It would be good to look through Snoopy if you get a chance.I agree with the other comments, that if you are bothering to build a sub to 250ft, don't skimp on the dome. Even at 40ft, you would not pick up a dome "off the shelf" that would be strong enough, & you would need it purpose built out of the right materials by someone who knows what they are doing.I am not sure of your best option for buying a 250ft dome! Emile in the Netherlands makes them& seamagine Hydrospace in California. Others may know of better options.Cheers Alan From: Frankie Bowman via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org; personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 44, Issue 14 DHello everyone my name is Frank Bowman I live in Tampa Florida I am currently accumulating parts to build a k250 sub I have loved this model for years since I saw one on the side of the road in key west! I have always wanted to build one and I'm finally going to do it! Our bay is only 20feet deep on a good day except for in the sipping channel wich is 43 feet and much to busy to play in I plan on building the sub to the original plans that I will be purchasing soon any recommendations on acrylic thickness for the depth of water I'll be diving in and ideas on hatches would be greatly appreciated!? On Feb 2, 2017 6:18 PM, "via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to ? ? ? ? personal_submersibles at psubs. org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ? ? ? ? http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ? ? ? ? personal_submersibles-request@ psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at ? ? ? ? personal_submersibles-owner@ psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: ? ?1. scrubber performance (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) ? ?2. Re: scrubber performance (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) ? ?3. Re: co2 scrubber (via Personal_Submersibles) ? ?4. Re: scrubber performance (via Personal_Submersibles) ? ?5. Re: co2 scrubber (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ---------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 15:37:01 -0500 From: River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? ? To: personal_submersibles at psubs. org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Message-ID: ? ? ? ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on these units from COZIR. http://www.co2meter.com/ products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensor They're only about $70US, have built in self calibration, super reliable, and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The big rub is that it isn't analog output, but serial. You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the scrubber, other sensors, etc. I have an identical system built for the health department currently running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across the city in the elements. They are that good. I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so I've been thinking about life support lately. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 10:30:12 +1300 From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? ? ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" That looks good River. They have a sensor pump kit add on. http://www.co2meter.com/ collections/co2-sensors/ products/gas-sensor-micro-pump Is this necessary? Does the unit need to be put in an air flow? I noticed other add ons, like water filter. Any recommendations regarding required add ons. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/02/2017, at 9:37 AM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on these units from COZIR. > http://www.co2meter.com/ products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensor > > They're only about $70US, have built in self calibration, super reliable, and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The big rub is that it isn't analog output, but serial. > > You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the scrubber, other sensors, etc. > > I have an identical system built for the health department currently running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across the city in the elements. They are that good. > > I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so I've been thinking about life support lately. > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 16:29:34 -0600 From: via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? ? ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Started life with axial scrubber but now use radial design.? Has worked much better for me. Cliff Sent from my iPad > On Feb 2, 2017, at 1:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks' guys, that helps. > Cliff, I assume you have an axial scrubber > Hank > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 16:46:57 -0600 From: via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? ? ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Message-ID: <09EAACC2-6221-4879-A137- ADE7EABDEA40 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have had good performance from this company but with their K30 sensor.? $85 and does give 0-5v analog output signal.? It span is 0-10,000 ppm (0-2%). Cliff Sent from my iPad > On Feb 2, 2017, at 2:37 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on these units from COZIR. > http://www.co2meter.com/ products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensor > > They're only about $70US, have built in self calibration, super reliable, and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The big rub is that it isn't analog output, but serial. > > You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the scrubber, other sensors, etc. > > I have an identical system built for the health department currently running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across the city in the elements. They are that good. > > I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so I've been thinking about life support lately. > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 23:12:52 +0000 (UTC) From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? ? ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber Message-ID: <1219036942.614686. 1486077172632 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I am a dope, lol, I was mixed up on the?terminology , I had an axial and have just installed a new radial scrubber.Hank ? ? On Thursday, February 2, 2017 3:29 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Started life with axial scrubber but now use radial design. ?Has worked much better for me. Cliff Sent from my iPad On Feb 2, 2017, at 1:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks' guys, that helps. ?Cliff, I assume you have an axial scrubberHank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 44, Issue 14 ****************************** *********************** _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 3 10:30:18 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:30:18 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: References: <09EAACC2-6221-4879-A137-ADE7EABDEA40@gmail.com> Message-ID: Sounds like you are having fun coming up to speed on PLCs. Get your wife to take the video of your hand waving. We would all appreciate the entailment value! It a lot of fun to bench test components being operated by PLC and see them come to life based on your code. As to compass heading, roll, pitch and yaw sensor, I use the Ocean-server http://www.ocean-server.com/compass.html OS5000-S Solid State tilt compensagted 3 axes digital compass, This is a RS-232 serial device. You have to write some PLC ladder logic code to parse the ASCII string sent to the PLC to extract the data, I packaged mine in a small 1-atm aluminum anadoized pod about the size of a tennis ball that I have mounted outside the steel pressure hull behind the pilot. Even though the DoMore CPU you are using has several serial input ports that could be used for this sensor, I ended up getted a dedicated coprocessor module that plugs into one of the AutomationDirect PLC bases that enables me to write the parsing code in BASIC and enables me to dedicate the coprocessor to this sensor. It took me a while to come up to speed on RS-232 comuncations but I now have this working petty much bullet proof. The coprocedssor then sends the heading, pitch, roll and yaw values to the PLC cpu to be used any way you want them. Currently, I am only using this data on my HMI.Cliff On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 12:52 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Cliff, > Its been slow going as I am finishing building my home. Should be finished > in 45 days. But I have been making progress as I learn PLC coding and > ladder logic in the evenings. Currently I am working thru the flight Joy > Stick switch controls combined with a 4 position joystick base to control > the (2) forward canard wings, (2) vertical thrusters (2) horizontal > thrusters, and (2) vectored rear thrusters to have a flight experience. I > spend many hours in the evening when my wife is not looking waving my hands > thru the air simulating flight and then coding the switches needed to make > the maneuver. I'm sure it would be entertaining to record a video. I am > curious, are you using any gyroscopic sensors for pitch and roll? I'm > thinking I need to have some build into the coding so as to limit my human > abilities as safety overrides. > The next step is to get a bench setup with the joystick and canard wings > to run tests on the coding and for flight training purposes. Just need to > finish the house first. Mean while I'll be waving my hands in the air for a > while. > > > > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> David, hope that you have made some progress on the design work for >> SeaQuester. When I first installed life support on the R300, I had sensors >> distributed all over the boat. What I have move to is packaging all the >> Life Support related sensors in a single electrical box I call the AMOC >> module. AMOC is an acronym for Air Management and Oxygen Control. This >> made it easier to maintain the system and made it easy to bench test. I >> feed HP O2 from an external tank to this box. It in turn breaks the >> pressure and emits the O2 to keep the mole percent balanced. The PLC >> interfaces with the AMOC unit to monitor and control the air in the cabin. >> If you are interested, send me your email address to >> cliffordredus at sbcglobal.net and I will send you the DCI for the drawings >> associated with the AMOC unit and the drawings. The axial flow scrubber I >> use is the same one Alec used for Snoopy. It has worked great. The PLC >> ladder logic code around the life support system is pretty straight >> forward. What I like about the system is that it automatically compensates >> for different sized humans in the boat but yet retains a manual mode in the >> event both the main and auxiliary power are lost. The assembly drawing for >> the AMOC unit details all the sensors as well as all the Swagelok fittings >> and circular disconnect. This unit should work well with the >> AutomationDirect DoMore CPU you have. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 7:50 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Cliff, Thanks for answering the question I was just going to ask. Did >>> you build any special case to mount for replacement? I need to back and see >>> the line of code you used so I can use it in my DoMore PLC >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> David Colombo >>> >>> 804 College Ave >>> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >>> (707) 536-1424 >>> www.SeaQuestor.com >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 2:46 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I have had good performance from this company but with their K30 >>>> sensor. $85 and does give 0-5v analog output signal. It span is 0-10,000 >>>> ppm (0-2%). >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 2:37 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I >>>> was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on >>>> these units from COZIR. >>>> http://www.co2meter.com/products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensor >>>> >>>> They're only about $70US, have built in self calibration, super >>>> reliable, and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The big >>>> rub is that it isn't analog output, but serial. >>>> >>>> You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy >>>> enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, >>>> trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the scrubber, >>>> other sensors, etc. >>>> >>>> I have an identical system built for the health department currently >>>> running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across the >>>> city in the elements. They are that good. >>>> >>>> I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so >>>> I've been thinking about life support lately. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 3 10:34:40 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:34:40 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber In-Reply-To: <20170202213641.2615015@m0087793.ppops.net> References: <20170202213641.2615015@m0087793.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, see http://www.ntz-filter.com/Radial_Filtration_versus_Axial_Filtration for picture which is worth at least a hundred words. Cliff On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 11:36 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > What is the difference between a Axial scrubber and a radial ? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber > Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 16:29:34 -0600 > > Started life with axial scrubber but now use radial design. Has worked > much better for me. > > Cliff > > Sent from my iPad > > On Feb 2, 2017, at 1:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks' guys, that helps. > Cliff, I assume you have an axial scrubber > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 3 10:50:57 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 07:50:57 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Message-ID: <20170203075057.25ECDD9@m0086238.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 3 11:45:26 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 10:45:26 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <20170203075057.25ECDD9@m0086238.ppops.net> References: <20170203075057.25ECDD9@m0086238.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, I am not a corrosion expert but have found that hard anozizing (Mil-A-8625 type III) seems to work fine for my parts. My experience is that PSUB stuff gets banged around a lot so addeded thinckness and hardness that comes from Mil-A-8625 type III seems to work out better. Most of my marine experience has been in fresh water lakes so we really need to get someone with a lot of saltwater experience to chime in. Also most psubbers don't leave their boats in the water all the time and rinse off the boat after use. This also tends to mitigate corrosion. Cliff On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, Is the Mil-A-8625 type III class 2 black anodizing sufficient > for exposure to sea water? Using 6061 aluminum. > > Brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:30:18 -0600 > > Sounds like you are having fun coming up to speed on PLCs. Get your wife > to take the video of your hand waving. We would all appreciate the > entailment value! It a lot of fun to bench test components being operated > by PLC and see them come to life based on your code. As to compass > heading, roll, pitch and yaw sensor, I use the Ocean-server > http://www.ocean-server.com/compass.html OS5000-S Solid State tilt > compensagted 3 axes digital compass, This is a RS-232 serial device. You > have to write some PLC ladder logic code to parse the ASCII string sent to > the PLC to extract the data, I packaged mine in a small 1-atm aluminum > anadoized pod about the size of a tennis ball that I have mounted outside > the steel pressure hull behind the pilot. Even though the DoMore CPU you > are using has several serial input ports that could be used for this > sensor, I ended up getted a dedicated coprocessor module that plugs into > one of the AutomationDirect PLC bases that enables me to write the parsing > code in BASIC and enables me to dedicate the coprocessor to this sensor. > It took me a while to come up to speed on RS-232 comuncations but I now > have this working petty much bullet proof. The coprocedssor then sends the > heading, pitch, roll and yaw values to the PLC cpu to be used any way you > want them. Currently, I am only using this data on my HMI.Cliff > > On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 12:52 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Cliff, > Its been slow going as I am finishing building my home. Should be finished > in 45 days. But I have been making progress as I learn PLC coding and > ladder logic in the evenings. Currently I am working thru the flight Joy > Stick switch controls combined with a 4 position joystick base to control > the (2) forward canard wings, (2) vertical thrusters (2) horizontal > thrusters, and (2) vectored rear thrusters to have a flight experience. I > spend many hours in the evening when my wife is not looking waving my hands > thru the air simulating flight and then coding the switches needed to make > the maneuver. I'm sure it would be entertaining to record a video. I am > curious, are you using any gyroscopic sensors for pitch and roll? I'm > thinking I need to have some build into the coding so as to limit my human > abilities as safety overrides. > The next step is to get a bench setup with the joystick and canard wings > to run tests on the coding and for flight training purposes. Just need to > finish the house first. Mean while I'll be waving my hands in the air for a > while. > > > > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > David, hope that you have made some progress on the design work for > SeaQuester. When I first installed life support on the R300, I had sensors > distributed all over the boat. What I have move to is packaging all the > Life Support related sensors in a single electrical box I call the AMOC > module. AMOC is an acronym for Air Management and Oxygen Control. This > made it easier to maintain the system and made it easy to bench test. I > feed HP O2 from an external tank to this box. It in turn breaks the > pressure and emits the O2 to keep the mole percent balanced. The PLC > interfaces with the AMOC unit to monitor and control the air in the cabin. > If you are interested, send me your email address to > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.net and I will send you the DCI for the drawings > associated with the AMOC unit and the drawings. The axial flow scrubber I > use is the same one Alec used for Snoopy. It has worked great. The PLC > ladder logic code around the life support system is pretty straight > forward. What I like about the system is that it automatically compensates > for different sized humans in the boat but yet retains a manual mode in the > event both the main and auxiliary power are lost. The assembly drawing for > the AMOC unit details all the sensors as well as all the Swagelok fittings > and circular disconnect. This unit should work well with the > AutomationDirect DoMore CPU you have. > > Cliff > > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 7:50 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, Thanks for answering the question I was just going to ask. Did you > build any special case to mount for replacement? I need to back and see the > line of code you used so I can use it in my DoMore PLC > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 2:46 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I have had good performance from this company but with their K30 sensor. > $85 and does give 0-5v analog output signal. It span is 0-10,000 ppm > (0-2%). > > Cliff > > Sent from my iPad > > On Feb 2, 2017, at 2:37 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I > was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on > these units from COZIR. > http://www.co2meter.com/products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensor > > They're only about $70US, have built in self calibration, super reliable, > and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The big rub is > that it isn't analog output, but serial. > > You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy > enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, > trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the scrubber, > other sensors, etc. > > I have an identical system built for the health department currently > running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across the > city in the elements. They are that good. > > I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so I've > been thinking about life support lately. > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 3 12:05:28 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:05:28 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Message-ID: <20170203090528.2626D1F@m0087796.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 3 13:26:15 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 19:26:15 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <20170203090528.2626D1F@m0087796.ppops.net> References: <20170203090528.2626D1F@m0087796.ppops.net> Message-ID: <074401d27e4b$01d48e80$057dab80$@nl> Brian, A good Anodizer can keep it the same size . With 30-50 Micron thickness there can be some Microns ?growth? Not a issue for O-rings and threads. My anodize offers a Teflon dip after anodizing to make it more water repellant. Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 3 februari 2017 18:05 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Cliff, Will I have to worry about threads or o ring tolerances after the process? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 10:45:26 -0600 Brian, I am not a corrosion expert but have found that hard anozizing (Mil-A-8625 type III) seems to work fine for my parts. My experience is that PSUB stuff gets banged around a lot so addeded thinckness and hardness that comes from Mil-A-8625 type III seems to work out better. Most of my marine experience has been in fresh water lakes so we really need to get someone with a lot of saltwater experience to chime in. Also most psubbers don't leave their boats in the water all the time and rinse off the boat after use. This also tends to mitigate corrosion. Cliff On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, Is the Mil-A-8625 type III class 2 black anodizing sufficient for exposure to sea water? Using 6061 aluminum. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:30:18 -0600 Sounds like you are having fun coming up to speed on PLCs. Get your wife to take the video of your hand waving. We would all appreciate the entailment value! It a lot of fun to bench test components being operated by PLC and see them come to life based on your code. As to compass heading, roll, pitch and yaw sensor, I use the Ocean-server http://www.ocean-server.com/compass.html OS5000-S Solid State tilt compensagted 3 axes digital compass, This is a RS-232 serial device. You have to write some PLC ladder logic code to parse the ASCII string sent to the PLC to extract the data, I packaged mine in a small 1-atm aluminum anadoized pod about the size of a tennis ball that I have mounted outside the steel pressure hull behind the pilot. Even though the DoMore CPU you are using has several serial input ports that could be used for this sensor, I ended up getted a dedicated coprocessor module that plugs into one of the AutomationDirect PLC bases that enables me to write the parsing code in BASIC and enables me to dedicate the coprocessor to this sensor. It took me a while to come up to speed on RS-232 comuncations but I now have this working petty much bullet proof. The coprocedssor then sends the heading, pitch, roll and yaw values to the PLC cpu to be used any way you want them. Currently, I am only using this data on my HMI. Cliff On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 12:52 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, Its been slow going as I am finishing building my home. Should be finished in 45 days. But I have been making progress as I learn PLC coding and ladder logic in the evenings. Currently I am working thru the flight Joy Stick switch controls combined with a 4 position joystick base to control the (2) forward canard wings, (2) vertical thrusters (2) horizontal thrusters, and (2) vectored rear thrusters to have a flight experience. I spend many hours in the evening when my wife is not looking waving my hands thru the air simulating flight and then coding the switches needed to make the maneuver. I'm sure it would be entertaining to record a video. I am curious, are you using any gyroscopic sensors for pitch and roll? I'm thinking I need to have some build into the coding so as to limit my human abilities as safety overrides. The next step is to get a bench setup with the joystick and canard wings to run tests on the coding and for flight training purposes. Just need to finish the house first. Mean while I'll be waving my hands in the air for a while. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: David, hope that you have made some progress on the design work for SeaQuester. When I first installed life support on the R300, I had sensors distributed all over the boat. What I have move to is packaging all the Life Support related sensors in a single electrical box I call the AMOC module. AMOC is an acronym for Air Management and Oxygen Control. This made it easier to maintain the system and made it easy to bench test. I feed HP O2 from an external tank to this box. It in turn breaks the pressure and emits the O2 to keep the mole percent balanced. The PLC interfaces with the AMOC unit to monitor and control the air in the cabin. If you are interested, send me your email address to cliffordredus at sbcglobal.net and I will send you the DCI for the drawings associated with the AMOC unit and the drawings. The axial flow scrubber I use is the same one Alec used for Snoopy. It has worked great. The PLC ladder logic code around the life support system is pretty straight forward. What I like about the system is that it automatically compensates for different sized humans in the boat but yet retains a manual mode in the event both the main and auxiliary power are lost. The assembly drawing for the AMOC unit details all the sensors as well as all the Swagelok fittings and circular disconnect. This unit should work well with the AutomationDirect DoMore CPU you have. Cliff On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 7:50 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, Thanks for answering the question I was just going to ask. Did you build any special case to mount for replacement? I need to back and see the line of code you used so I can use it in my DoMore PLC Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 2:46 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have had good performance from this company but with their K30 sensor. $85 and does give 0-5v analog output signal. It span is 0-10,000 ppm (0-2%). Cliff Sent from my iPad On Feb 2, 2017, at 2:37 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on these units from COZIR. http://www.co2meter.com/products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensor They're only about $70US, have built in self calibration, super reliable, and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The big rub is that it isn't analog output, but serial. You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the scrubber, other sensors, etc. I have an identical system built for the health department currently running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across the city in the elements. They are that good. I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so I've been thinking about life support lately. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 3 16:39:24 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2017 14:39:24 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: ZhL7cBvBV3Zy3ZhL9c5eqG References: ZhL7cBvBV3Zy3ZhL9c5eqG Message-ID: <4d31de66-09ab-4103-ab90-3240a849c16f@email.android.com> You should consider it. Hard anodizing is typically about 0.003" thick, comprising 0.0015" penetration into the base material and 0.0015" buildup. Those numbers will never be exact of course, but serve as a useful rule of thumb for making adjustments to e.g. o-ring groove tolerances. Standard class 2A/2B threads shouldn't be an issue, but if you are using tighter thread tolerances, you may need to adjust that also. Sean On February 3, 2017 10:05:28 AM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Cliff, Will I have to worry about threads or o ring >tolerances after the process? > > > >Brian > >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance >Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 10:45:26 -0600 > >Brian, I am not a corrosion expert but have found that hard anozizing >(Mil-A-8625 type III) seems to work fine for my parts. My experience >is that PSUB stuff gets banged around a lot so addeded thinckness and >hardness that comes from Mil-A-8625 type III seems to work out better. >Most of my marine experience has been in fresh water lakes so we really >need to get someone with a lot of saltwater experience to chime in. >Also most psubbers don't leave their boats in the water all the time >and rinse off the boat after use. This also tends to mitigate >corrosion. > > >Cliff > > >On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >Cliff, Is the Mil-A-8625 type III class 2 black anodizing sufficient >for exposure to sea water? Using 6061 aluminum. > > > >Brian > > > >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance >Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:30:18 -0600 > >Sounds like you are having fun coming up to speed on PLCs. Get your >wife to take the video of your hand waving. We would all appreciate >the entailment value! It a lot of fun to bench test components being >operated by PLC and see them come to life based on your code. As to >compass heading, roll, pitch and yaw sensor, I use the Ocean-server >http://www.ocean-server.com/compass.html OS5000-S Solid State tilt >compensagted 3 axes digital compass, This is a RS-232 serial device. >You have to write some PLC ladder logic code to parse the ASCII string >sent to the PLC to extract the data, I packaged mine in a small 1-atm >aluminum anadoized pod about the size of a tennis ball that I have >mounted outside the steel pressure hull behind the pilot. Even though >the DoMore CPU you are using has several serial input ports that could >be used for this sensor, I ended up getted a dedicated coprocessor >module that plugs into one of the AutomationDirect PLC bases that >enables me to write the parsing code in BASIC and enables me to >dedicate the coprocessor to this sensor. It took me a while to come up >to speed on RS-232 comuncations but I now have this working petty much >bullet proof. The coprocedssor then sends the heading, pitch, roll and >yaw values to the PLC cpu to be used any way you want them. Currently, >I am only using this data on my HMI. > >Cliff > > >On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 12:52 AM, David Colombo via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Hi Cliff, > >Its been slow going as I am finishing building my home. Should be >finished in 45 days. But I have been making progress as I learn PLC >coding and ladder logic in the evenings. Currently I am working thru >the flight Joy Stick switch controls combined with a 4 position >joystick base to control the (2) forward canard wings, (2) vertical >thrusters (2) horizontal thrusters, and (2) vectored rear thrusters to >have a flight experience. I spend many hours in the evening when my >wife is not looking waving my hands thru the air simulating flight and >then coding the switches needed to make the maneuver. I'm sure it would >be entertaining to record a video. I am curious, are you using any >gyroscopic sensors for pitch and roll? I'm thinking I need to have some >build into the coding so as to limit my human abilities as safety >overrides. > >The next step is to get a bench setup with the joystick and canard >wings to run tests on the coding and for flight training purposes. Just >need to finish the house first. Mean while I'll be waving my hands in >the air for a while. > > > > >Best Regards, >David Colombo > >804 College Ave >Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >(707) 536-1424 >www.SeaQuestor.com > > >On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >David, hope that you have made some progress on the design work for >SeaQuester. When I first installed life support on the R300, I had >sensors distributed all over the boat. What I have move to is >packaging all the Life Support related sensors in a single electrical >box I call the AMOC module. AMOC is an acronym for Air Management and >Oxygen Control. This made it easier to maintain the system and made it >easy to bench test. I feed HP O2 from an external tank to this box. It >in turn breaks the pressure and emits the O2 to keep the mole percent >balanced. The PLC interfaces with the AMOC unit to monitor and control >the air in the cabin. If you are interested, send me your email address >to cliffordredus at sbcglobal.net and I will send you the DCI for the >drawings associated with the AMOC unit and the drawings. The axial >flow scrubber I use is the same one Alec used for Snoopy. It has >worked great. The PLC ladder logic code around the life support system >is pretty straight forward. What I like about the system is that it >automatically compensates for different sized humans in the boat but >yet retains a manual mode in the event both the main and auxiliary >power are lost. The assembly drawing for the AMOC unit details all the >sensors as well as all the Swagelok fittings and circular disconnect. >This unit should work well with the AutomationDirect DoMore CPU you >have. > > >Cliff > > > >On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 7:50 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >Cliff, Thanks for answering the question I was just going to ask. Did >you build any special case to mount for replacement? I need to back and >see the line of code you used so I can use it in my DoMore PLC > > >Best Regards, >David Colombo > >804 College Ave >Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >(707) 536-1424 >www.SeaQuestor.com > > >On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 2:46 PM, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >I have had good performance from this company but with their K30 >sensor. $85 and does give 0-5v analog output signal. It span is >0-10,000 ppm (0-2%). > > >Cliff > >Sent from my iPad > > >On Feb 2, 2017, at 2:37 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I >was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on >these units from COZIR. >http://www.co2meter.com/products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensor > >They're only about $70US, have built in self calibration, super >reliable, and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The >big rub is that it isn't analog output, but serial. > >You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy >enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, >trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the >scrubber, other sensors, etc. > >I have an identical system built for the health department currently >running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across >the city in the elements. They are that good. > > >I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so >I've been thinking about life support lately. > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 3 16:51:17 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 10:51:17 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <074401d27e4b$01d48e80$057dab80$@nl> References: <20170203090528.2626D1F@m0087796.ppops.net> <074401d27e4b$01d48e80$057dab80$@nl> Message-ID: <0b2301d27e67$a8aee090$fa0ca1b0$@gmail.com> Brian, While Emile has a good anodiser there are many lousy ones out there. Generally anodising will add thickness. Half goes into the metal and half goes on the outside. Depending on the clearance or fit of your threads depends whether you have a problem We anodise but have to allow for clearance.. The Anodisers I have available are very commercial and we have had issues affecting O?ring sealing so pick your anodiser carefully. On a class 3 thread fit you cannot get complacent as 50 microns thickness is still 0.002? so a thread will have a much greater effect While 50 microns is only 25 microns increase it means 100 microns on clearance diameter if both male and female are anodised.. There are some new processes which claim will not add thickness such as diamondysing but that process is added ontop of normal anodising. I would ask Emile what actual process his anodiser uses. We would need to go to an aircraft certified anodiser. We do our own hard anodising. Pulse anodising will produce better results. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of emile via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 4 February 2017 7:26 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Brian, A good Anodizer can keep it the same size . With 30-50 Micron thickness there can be some Microns ?growth? Not a issue for O-rings and threads. My anodize offers a Teflon dip after anodizing to make it more water repellant. Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 3 februari 2017 18:05 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Cliff, Will I have to worry about threads or o ring tolerances after the process? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 10:45:26 -0600 Brian, I am not a corrosion expert but have found that hard anozizing (Mil-A-8625 type III) seems to work fine for my parts. My experience is that PSUB stuff gets banged around a lot so addeded thinckness and hardness that comes from Mil-A-8625 type III seems to work out better. Most of my marine experience has been in fresh water lakes so we really need to get someone with a lot of saltwater experience to chime in. Also most psubbers don't leave their boats in the water all the time and rinse off the boat after use. This also tends to mitigate corrosion. Cliff On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, Is the Mil-A-8625 type III class 2 black anodizing sufficient for exposure to sea water? Using 6061 aluminum. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:30:18 -0600 Sounds like you are having fun coming up to speed on PLCs. Get your wife to take the video of your hand waving. We would all appreciate the entailment value! It a lot of fun to bench test components being operated by PLC and see them come to life based on your code. As to compass heading, roll, pitch and yaw sensor, I use the Ocean-server http://www.ocean-server.com/compass.html OS5000-S Solid State tilt compensagted 3 axes digital compass, This is a RS-232 serial device. You have to write some PLC ladder logic code to parse the ASCII string sent to the PLC to extract the data, I packaged mine in a small 1-atm aluminum anadoized pod about the size of a tennis ball that I have mounted outside the steel pressure hull behind the pilot. Even though the DoMore CPU you are using has several serial input ports that could be used for this sensor, I ended up getted a dedicated coprocessor module that plugs into one of the AutomationDirect PLC bases that enables me to write the parsing code in BASIC and enables me to dedicate the coprocessor to this sensor. It took me a while to come up to speed on RS-232 comuncations but I now have this working petty much bullet proof. The coprocedssor then sends the heading, pitch, roll and yaw values to the PLC cpu to be used any way you want them. Currently, I am only using this data on my HMI. Cliff On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 12:52 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, Its been slow going as I am finishing building my home. Should be finished in 45 days. But I have been making progress as I learn PLC coding and ladder logic in the evenings. Currently I am working thru the flight Joy Stick switch controls combined with a 4 position joystick base to control the (2) forward canard wings, (2) vertical thrusters (2) horizontal thrusters, and (2) vectored rear thrusters to have a flight experience. I spend many hours in the evening when my wife is not looking waving my hands thru the air simulating flight and then coding the switches needed to make the maneuver. I'm sure it would be entertaining to record a video. I am curious, are you using any gyroscopic sensors for pitch and roll? I'm thinking I need to have some build into the coding so as to limit my human abilities as safety overrides. The next step is to get a bench setup with the joystick and canard wings to run tests on the coding and for flight training purposes. Just need to finish the house first. Mean while I'll be waving my hands in the air for a while. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: David, hope that you have made some progress on the design work for SeaQuester. When I first installed life support on the R300, I had sensors distributed all over the boat. What I have move to is packaging all the Life Support related sensors in a single electrical box I call the AMOC module. AMOC is an acronym for Air Management and Oxygen Control. This made it easier to maintain the system and made it easy to bench test. I feed HP O2 from an external tank to this box. It in turn breaks the pressure and emits the O2 to keep the mole percent balanced. The PLC interfaces with the AMOC unit to monitor and control the air in the cabin. If you are interested, send me your email address to cliffordredus at sbcglobal.net and I will send you the DCI for the drawings associated with the AMOC unit and the drawings. The axial flow scrubber I use is the same one Alec used for Snoopy. It has worked great. The PLC ladder logic code around the life support system is pretty straight forward. What I like about the system is that it automatically compensates for different sized humans in the boat but yet retains a manual mode in the event both the main and auxiliary power are lost. The assembly drawing for the AMOC unit details all the sensors as well as all the Swagelok fittings and circular disconnect. This unit should work well with the AutomationDirect DoMore CPU you have. Cliff On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 7:50 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, Thanks for answering the question I was just going to ask. Did you build any special case to mount for replacement? I need to back and see the line of code you used so I can use it in my DoMore PLC Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 2:46 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have had good performance from this company but with their K30 sensor. $85 and does give 0-5v analog output signal. It span is 0-10,000 ppm (0-2%). Cliff Sent from my iPad On Feb 2, 2017, at 2:37 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on these units from COZIR. http://www.co2meter.com/products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensor They're only about $70US, have built in self calibration, super reliable, and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The big rub is that it isn't analog output, but serial. You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the scrubber, other sensors, etc. I have an identical system built for the health department currently running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across the city in the elements. They are that good. I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so I've been thinking about life support lately. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 3 17:54:34 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 14:54:34 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Message-ID: <20170203145434.2610026@m0087793.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 3 18:07:54 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 23:07:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising In-Reply-To: <0b2301d27e67$a8aee090$fa0ca1b0$@gmail.com> References: <20170203090528.2626D1F@m0087796.ppops.net> <074401d27e4b$01d48e80$057dab80$@nl> <0b2301d27e67$a8aee090$fa0ca1b0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <40861181.709536.1486163274284@mail.yahoo.com> I am looking at free machining aluminium rod as one of the options for my light housing.It is sold as 2011 T3 to T6. Is this suitable for hard anodizing?It is no good for welding.Alan From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance #yiv7833930998 #yiv7833930998 -- _filtered #yiv7833930998 {font-family:Cambria;panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7833930998 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7833930998 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv7833930998 #yiv7833930998 p.yiv7833930998MsoNormal, #yiv7833930998 li.yiv7833930998MsoNormal, #yiv7833930998 div.yiv7833930998MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv7833930998 h3 {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:13.5pt;}#yiv7833930998 a:link, #yiv7833930998 span.yiv7833930998MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7833930998 a:visited, #yiv7833930998 span.yiv7833930998MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7833930998 p.yiv7833930998MsoAcetate, #yiv7833930998 li.yiv7833930998MsoAcetate, #yiv7833930998 div.yiv7833930998MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv7833930998 span.yiv7833930998Heading3Char {color:#4F81BD;font-weight:bold;}#yiv7833930998 p.yiv7833930998Kop3, #yiv7833930998 li.yiv7833930998Kop3, #yiv7833930998 div.yiv7833930998Kop3 {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv7833930998 span.yiv7833930998Kop3Char {color:#4F81BD;font-weight:bold;}#yiv7833930998 span.yiv7833930998EmailStyle20 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv7833930998 span.yiv7833930998EmailStyle21 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv7833930998 span.yiv7833930998BalloonTextChar {}#yiv7833930998 .yiv7833930998MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv7833930998 {margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}#yiv7833930998 div.yiv7833930998WordSection1 {}#yiv7833930998 Brian,While Emile has a good anodiser there are many lousy ones out there.? Generally anodising will add thickness.? Half goes into the metal and half goes on the outside.? Depending on the clearance or fit of your threads depends whether you have a problem? We anodise but have to allow for clearance..? The Anodisers I have available are very commercial and we have had issues affecting O?ring sealing so pick your anodiser carefully.? On a class 3 thread fit you cannot get complacent as 50 microns thickness is still 0.002? so a thread will have a much greater effect? While 50 microns is only 25 microns increase it means 100 microns on clearance diameter if both male and female are anodised..? There are some new processes which claim will not add thickness such as diamondysing but that process is added ontop of normal anodising.? I would ask Emile what actual process his anodiser uses.? We would need to go to an aircraft certified anodiser. ??We do our own hard anodising.? Pulse anodising will produce better results.? Hugh ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of emile via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 4 February 2017 7:26 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance ?Brian, ?A good Anodizer can keep it the same size . With 30-50 Micron? thickness there can be some Microns ?growth? Not a issue for O-rings and threads.My anodize offers a Teflon dip after anodizing to make it more water repellant. ?Emile ?Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 3 februari 2017 18:05 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance ?Cliff,???????????????? Will I have to worry about threads or o ring tolerances after the process??? ?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 10:45:26 -0600Brian, I am not a corrosion expert but have found that hard anozizing (Mil-A-8625 type III) seems to work fine for my parts.? My experience is that PSUB stuff gets banged around a lot so addeded thinckness and hardness that comes from Mil-A-8625 type III seems to work out better.? Most of my marine experience has been in fresh water lakes so we really need to get someone with a lot of saltwater experience to chime in.? Also most psubbers don't leave their boats in the water all the time and rinse off the boat after use.? This also tends to mitigate corrosion. ?Cliff ?On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Cliff,?? Is the Mil-A-8625 type III class 2 black? anodizing sufficient for exposure to sea water?? Using 6061 aluminum.??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:30:18 -0600Sounds like you are having fun coming up to speed on PLCs. Get your wife to?take the video of your hand waving.? We would all appreciate the entailment value!? It a lot of fun to bench test components being operated by PLC and see them come to life based on your code.? As to compass heading, roll, pitch and yaw sensor, I use the Ocean-server http://www.ocean-server.com/compass.html? ?OS5000-S Solid State tilt compensagted 3 axes digital compass,? This is a RS-232 serial device. You have to write some PLC ladder logic code to parse the ASCII string sent to the PLC to extract the data,? I packaged mine in a small 1-atm aluminum anadoized pod about the size of a tennis ball that I have mounted outside the steel pressure hull behind the pilot.? Even though the DoMore CPU you are using has several serial input ports that could be used for this sensor, I ended up getted a dedicated coprocessor module that plugs into one of the AutomationDirect PLC bases that enables me to write the parsing code in?BASIC and enables me to dedicate the coprocessor to this sensor.? It took me a while to come up to speed on RS-232 comuncations but I now have this working petty much bullet proof.? The coprocedssor then sends the heading, pitch, roll and yaw values to the PLC cpu to be used any way you want them.? Currently, I am only using this data on my HMI. Cliff ?On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 12:52 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Hi Cliff,Its been slow going as I am finishing building my home. Should be finished in 45 days. But I have been making progress as I learn PLC coding and ladder logic in the evenings. Currently I am working thru the flight Joy Stick switch controls combined with a 4 position joystick base to control the (2) forward canard wings, (2) vertical thrusters? (2) horizontal thrusters, and (2) vectored rear thrusters to have a flight experience. I spend many hours in the evening when my wife is not looking waving my hands thru the air simulating flight and then coding the switches needed to make the maneuver. I'm sure it would be entertaining to record a video.? I am curious, are you using any gyroscopic sensors for pitch and roll? I'm thinking I need to have some build into the coding so as to limit my human abilities as safety overrides. The next step is to get a bench setup with the joystick and canard wings to run tests on the coding and for flight training purposes. Just need to finish the house first. Mean while I'll be waving my hands in the air for a while. ?Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com ?On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote:David, hope that you have made some progress on the design work for SeaQuester. When I first installed life support on the R300, I had sensors distributed all over the boat.? What I have move to is packaging all the Life Support related sensors in?a single?electrical box I call the AMOC module.? AMOC is an acronym for Air Management and Oxygen Control.?This made it easier to maintain the system and made it easy to bench test.?I feed HP O2 from an external tank to this box.? It in turn breaks the pressure and emits the O2 to keep the mole percent balanced.? The PLC interfaces with the AMOC unit to monitor and control the air in the cabin. If you are interested, send me your email address to cliffordredus at sbcglobal.net and I will send you the DCI for the drawings associated with the AMOC ?unit and the drawings.? The axial flow scrubber I use is the same one Alec used for Snoopy.? It has worked great. The PLC ladder logic code around the life support system is pretty straight forward.? What I like about the system is that it automatically compensates for different sized humans in the boat but yet retains a manual mode in the event both the main and auxiliary power are lost.? The assembly drawing for the AMOC unit details all the sensors as well as all the Swagelok fittings and circular disconnect.? This unit should work well with the AutomationDirect DoMore CPU you have. ?Cliff ? ?On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 7:50 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Cliff, Thanks for answering the question I was just going to ask.? Did you build any special case to mount for replacement? I need to back and see the line of code you used so I can use it in my DoMore PLC ?Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com ?On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 2:46 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:I have had good performance from this company but with their K30 sensor. ?$85 and does give 0-5v analog output signal.? It span is 0-10,000 ppm (0-2%). ?Cliff Sent from my iPad On Feb 2, 2017, at 2:37 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on these units from COZIR. http://www.co2meter.com/products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensorThey're only about $70US, have built in self calibration, super reliable, and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The big rub is that it isn't analog output, but serial.You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the scrubber, other sensors, etc.I have an identical system built for the health department currently running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across the city in the elements. They are that good. ?I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so I've been thinking about life support lately. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 3 19:06:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 16:06:50 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising Message-ID: <20170203160650.2616FA3@m0087794.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 3 19:53:57 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 19:53:57 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising Message-ID: <15a069d0080-654a-6792@webprd-a29.mail.aol.com> You don't need to look further than the Johnson Sea Links for data. The DLO chamber, main and variable ballasts and all the support legs are 6061 T6. None are treated in any way. All have done 1000s of dives. No corrosion beyond the surface seal. As to light housings made the way you describe them (turned from 3" stock I think), ours were copies of the Birns & Sawyer (now Birns) Snooperettes. We called them Plagiarettes We anodized them and used nylon bushings at the mountings to help isolate them from the rest of the sub. Without some protection, the electrical field and the rise and fall in temperatures as they were switched on and off would leave them kind of crusty over time. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Fri, Feb 3, 2017 7:07 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising Alan, Now you've got me thinking that I might be able to get away with out anodizing my 6061 aluminum. The data that I've been looking at shows good corrosion resistance for the 6061. Hmm... I guess I could just try it out and see what happens ! Worst that could happen is I might have to replace the parts down the line. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 23:07:54 +0000 (UTC) I am looking at free machining aluminium rod as one of the options for my light housing. It is sold as 2011 T3 to T6. Is this suitable for hard anodizing? It is no good for welding. Alan From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Brian, While Emile has a good anodiser there are many lousy ones out there. Generally anodising will add thickness. Half goes into the metal and half goes on the outside. Depending on the clearance or fit of your threads depends whether you have a problem We anodise but have to allow for clearance.. The Anodisers I have available are very commercial and we have had issues affecting O?ring sealing so pick your anodiser carefully. On a class 3 thread fit you cannot get complacent as 50 microns thickness is still 0.002? so a thread will have a much greater effect While 50 microns is only 25 microns increase it means 100 microns on clearance diameter if both male and female are anodised.. There are some new processes which claim will not add thickness such as diamondysing but that process is added ontop of normal anodising. I would ask Emile what actual process his anodiser uses. We would need to go to an aircraft certified anodiser. We do our own hard anodising. Pulse anodising will produce better results. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of emile via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 4 February 2017 7:26 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Brian, A good Anodizer can keep it the same size . With 30-50 Micron thickness there can be some Microns ?growth? Not a issue for O-rings and threads. My anodize offers a Teflon dip after anodizing to make it more water repellant. Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 3 februari 2017 18:05 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Cliff, Will I have to worry about threads or o ring tolerances after the process? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 10:45:26 -0600 Brian, I am not a corrosion expert but have found that hard anozizing (Mil-A-8625 type III) seems to work fine for my parts. My experience is that PSUB stuff gets banged around a lot so addeded thinckness and hardness that comes from Mil-A-8625 type III seems to work out better. Most of my marine experience has been in fresh water lakes so we really need to get someone with a lot of saltwater experience to chime in. Also most psubbers don't leave their boats in the water all the time and rinse off the boat after use. This also tends to mitigate corrosion. Cliff On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, Is the Mil-A-8625 type III class 2 black anodizing sufficient for exposure to sea water? Using 6061 aluminum. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:30:18 -0600 Sounds like you are having fun coming up to speed on PLCs. Get your wife to take the video of your hand waving. We would all appreciate the entailment value! It a lot of fun to bench test components being operated by PLC and see them come to life based on your code. As to compass heading, roll, pitch and yaw sensor, I use the Ocean-server http://www.ocean-server.com/compass.html OS5000-S Solid State tilt compensagted 3 axes digital compass, This is a RS-232 serial device. You have to write some PLC ladder logic code to parse the ASCII string sent to the PLC to extract the data, I packaged mine in a small 1-atm aluminum anadoized pod about the size of a tennis ball that I have mounted outside the steel pressure hull behind the pilot. Even though the DoMore CPU you are using has several serial input ports that could be used for this sensor, I ended up getted a dedicated coprocessor module that plugs into one of the AutomationDirect PLC bases that enables me to write the parsing code in BASIC and enables me to dedicate the coprocessor to this sensor. It took me a while to come up to speed on RS-232 comuncations but I now have this working petty much bullet proof. The coprocedssor then sends the heading, pitch, roll and yaw values to the PLC cpu to be used any way you want them. Currently, I am only using this data on my HMI. Cliff On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 12:52 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, Its been slow going as I am finishing building my home. Should be finished in 45 days. But I have been making progress as I learn PLC coding and ladder logic in the evenings. Currently I am working thru the flight Joy Stick switch controls combined with a 4 position joystick base to control the (2) forward canard wings, (2) vertical thrusters (2) horizontal thrusters, and (2) vectored rear thrusters to have a flight experience. I spend many hours in the evening when my wife is not looking waving my hands thru the air simulating flight and then coding the switches needed to make the maneuver. I'm sure it would be entertaining to record a video. I am curious, are you using any gyroscopic sensors for pitch and roll? I'm thinking I need to have some build into the coding so as to limit my human abilities as safety overrides. The next step is to get a bench setup with the joystick and canard wings to run tests on the coding and for flight training purposes. Just need to finish the house first. Mean while I'll be waving my hands in the air for a while. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: David, hope that you have made some progress on the design work for SeaQuester. When I first installed life support on the R300, I had sensors distributed all over the boat. What I have move to is packaging all the Life Support related sensors in a single electrical box I call the AMOC module. AMOC is an acronym for Air Management and Oxygen Control. This made it easier to maintain the system and made it easy to bench test. I feed HP O2 from an external tank to this box. It in turn breaks the pressure and emits the O2 to keep the mole percent balanced. The PLC interfaces with the AMOC unit to monitor and control the air in the cabin. If you are interested, send me your email address to cliffordredus at sbcglobal.net and I will send you the DCI for the drawings associated with the AMOC unit and the drawings. The axial flow scrubber I use is the same one Alec used for Snoopy. It has worked great. The PLC ladder logic code around the life support system is pretty straight forward. What I like about the system is that it automatically compensates for different sized humans in the boat but yet retains a manual mode in the event both the main and auxiliary power are lost. The assembly drawing for the AMOC unit details all the sensors as well as all the Swagelok fittings and circular disconnect. This unit should work well with the AutomationDirect DoMore CPU you have. Cliff On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 7:50 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, Thanks for answering the question I was just going to ask. Did you build any special case to mount for replacement? I need to back and see the line of code you used so I can use it in my DoMore PLC Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 2:46 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have had good performance from this company but with their K30 sensor. $85 and does give 0-5v analog output signal. It span is 0-10,000 ppm (0-2%). Cliff Sent from my iPad On Feb 2, 2017, at 2:37 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on these units from COZIR. http://www.co2meter.com/products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensor They're only about $70US, have built in self calibration, super reliable, and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The big rub is that it isn't analog output, but serial. You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the scrubber, other sensors, etc. I have an identical system built for the health department currently running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across the city in the elements. They are that good. I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so I've been thinking about life support lately. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 3 20:01:31 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2017 18:01:31 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising In-Reply-To: ZntTc1Z4nym4sZntVcEIYL References: ZntTc1Z4nym4sZntVcEIYL Message-ID: <58798e31-af26-49bb-9caa-6c1013f19272@email.android.com> Brian - are you operating in salt or fresh water? All of the vehicles I have worked on, for deployment in seawater, used 6061-T6 aluminum components, hard anodized black, and additionally protected with zinc anodes mounted to appropriately prepared (i.e. unanodized) surfaces. Sean On February 3, 2017 5:06:50 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Alan, > >Now you've got me thinking that I might be able to get away with out >anodizing my 6061 aluminum. The data that I've been looking at shows >good corrosion resistance for the 6061. Hmm... I guess I could just >try it out and see what happens ! Worst that could happen is I might >have to replace the parts down the line. > > > >Brian > >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising >Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 23:07:54 +0000 (UTC) > >I am looking at free machining aluminium rod as one of the options for >my light housing. > >It is sold as 2011 T3 to T6. Is this suitable for hard anodizing? > >It is no good for welding. > >Alan > >_____________________________________________ >From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > >To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > >Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 10:51 AM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance > > >Brian, > >While Emile has a good anodiser there are many lousy ones out there. >Generally anodising will add thickness. Half goes into the metal and >half goes on the outside. Depending on the clearance or fit of your >threads depends whether you have a problem We anodise but have to >allow for clearance.. The Anodisers I have available are very >commercial and we have had issues affecting O?ring sealing so pick your >anodiser carefully. On a class 3 thread fit you cannot get complacent >as 50 microns thickness is still 0.002? so a thread will have a much >greater effect While 50 microns is only 25 microns increase it means >100 microns on clearance diameter if both male and female are >anodised.. There are some new processes which claim will not add >thickness such as diamondysing but that process is added ontop of >normal anodising. I would ask Emile what actual process his anodiser >uses. We would need to go to an aircraft certified anodiser. We do >our own hard anodising. Pulse anodising will produce better results. >Hugh > > > >From: Personal_Submersibles >[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of emile via >Personal_Submersibles >Sent: Saturday, 4 February 2017 7:26 AM >To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance > > > >Brian, > > > >A good Anodizer can keep it the same size . With 30-50 Micron >thickness there can be some Microns ?growth? > >Not a issue for O-rings and threads. > >My anodize offers a Teflon dip after anodizing to make it more water >repellant. > > > >Emile > > > >Van: Personal_Submersibles >[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox via >Personal_Submersibles >Verzonden: vrijdag 3 februari 2017 18:05 >Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance > > > >Cliff, Will I have to worry about threads or o ring >tolerances after the process? > > > >Brian > >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance >Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 10:45:26 -0600 > >Brian, I am not a corrosion expert but have found that hard anozizing >(Mil-A-8625 type III) seems to work fine for my parts. My experience >is that PSUB stuff gets banged around a lot so addeded thinckness and >hardness that comes from Mil-A-8625 type III seems to work out better. >Most of my marine experience has been in fresh water lakes so we really >need to get someone with a lot of saltwater experience to chime in. >Also most psubbers don't leave their boats in the water all the time >and rinse off the boat after use. This also tends to mitigate >corrosion. > > > >Cliff > > > >On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >Cliff, Is the Mil-A-8625 type III class 2 black anodizing sufficient >for exposure to sea water? Using 6061 aluminum. > > > >Brian > > > >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance >Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:30:18 -0600 > >Sounds like you are having fun coming up to speed on PLCs. Get your >wife to take the video of your hand waving. We would all appreciate >the entailment value! It a lot of fun to bench test components being >operated by PLC and see them come to life based on your code. As to >compass heading, roll, pitch and yaw sensor, I use the Ocean-server >http://www.ocean-server.com/compass.html OS5000-S Solid State tilt >compensagted 3 axes digital compass, This is a RS-232 serial device. >You have to write some PLC ladder logic code to parse the ASCII string >sent to the PLC to extract the data, I packaged mine in a small 1-atm >aluminum anadoized pod about the size of a tennis ball that I have >mounted outside the steel pressure hull behind the pilot. Even though >the DoMore CPU you are using has several serial input ports that could >be used for this sensor, I ended up getted a dedicated coprocessor >module that plugs into one of the AutomationDirect PLC bases that >enables me to write the parsing code in BASIC and enables me to >dedicate the coprocessor to this sensor. It took me a while to come up >to speed on RS-232 comuncations but I now have this working petty much >bullet proof. The coprocedssor then sends the heading, pitch, roll and >yaw values to the PLC cpu to be used any way you want them. Currently, >I am only using this data on my HMI. > >Cliff > > > >On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 12:52 AM, David Colombo via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Hi Cliff, > >Its been slow going as I am finishing building my home. Should be >finished in 45 days. But I have been making progress as I learn PLC >coding and ladder logic in the evenings. Currently I am working thru >the flight Joy Stick switch controls combined with a 4 position >joystick base to control the (2) forward canard wings, (2) vertical >thrusters (2) horizontal thrusters, and (2) vectored rear thrusters to >have a flight experience. I spend many hours in the evening when my >wife is not looking waving my hands thru the air simulating flight and >then coding the switches needed to make the maneuver. I'm sure it would >be entertaining to record a video. I am curious, are you using any >gyroscopic sensors for pitch and roll? I'm thinking I need to have some >build into the coding so as to limit my human abilities as safety >overrides. > >The next step is to get a bench setup with the joystick and canard >wings to run tests on the coding and for flight training purposes. Just >need to finish the house first. Mean while I'll be waving my hands in >the air for a while. > > > >Best Regards, >David Colombo > >804 College Ave >Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >(707) 536-1424 >www.SeaQuestor.com > > > >On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >David, hope that you have made some progress on the design work for >SeaQuester. When I first installed life support on the R300, I had >sensors distributed all over the boat. What I have move to is >packaging all the Life Support related sensors in a single electrical >box I call the AMOC module. AMOC is an acronym for Air Management and >Oxygen Control. This made it easier to maintain the system and made it >easy to bench test. I feed HP O2 from an external tank to this box. It >in turn breaks the pressure and emits the O2 to keep the mole percent >balanced. The PLC interfaces with the AMOC unit to monitor and control >the air in the cabin. If you are interested, send me your email address >to cliffordredus at sbcglobal.net and I will send you the DCI for the >drawings associated with the AMOC unit and the drawings. The axial >flow scrubber I use is the same one Alec used for Snoopy. It has >worked great. The PLC ladder logic code around the life support system >is pretty straight forward. What I like about the system is that it >automatically compensates for different sized humans in the boat but >yet retains a manual mode in the event both the main and auxiliary >power are lost. The assembly drawing for the AMOC unit details all the >sensors as well as all the Swagelok fittings and circular disconnect. >This unit should work well with the AutomationDirect DoMore CPU you >have. > > > >Cliff > > > > > >On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 7:50 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >Cliff, Thanks for answering the question I was just going to ask. Did >you build any special case to mount for replacement? I need to back and >see the line of code you used so I can use it in my DoMore PLC > > > >Best Regards, >David Colombo > >804 College Ave >Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >(707) 536-1424 >www.SeaQuestor.com > > > >On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 2:46 PM, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >I have had good performance from this company but with their K30 >sensor. $85 and does give 0-5v analog output signal. It span is >0-10,000 ppm (0-2%). > > > >Cliff > >Sent from my iPad > > >On Feb 2, 2017, at 2:37 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I >was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on >these units from COZIR. >http://www.co2meter.com/products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensor > >They're only about $70US, have built in self calibration, super >reliable, and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The >big rub is that it isn't analog output, but serial. > >You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy >enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, >trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the >scrubber, other sensors, etc. > >I have an identical system built for the health department currently >running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across >the city in the elements. They are that good. > > > >I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so >I've been thinking about life support lately. > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 3 21:45:20 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 18:45:20 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising Message-ID: <20170203184520.26169B1@m0087794.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 3 23:25:02 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 17:25:02 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising In-Reply-To: <20170203184520.26169B1@m0087794.ppops.net> References: <20170203184520.26169B1@m0087794.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, I would get it anodised to be on the safe side. You will have several o-rings sealing on to it not to mention the big one that will seal it to the hull. You could have seawater entrapped in the o-ring grooves corroding it while it's out of the water. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 4/02/2017, at 3:45 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Sean, Salt water, but the aluminum (6061) that I have is completely isolated from any other metal, basically it is a 6" dia x 11/2" thick disk ( replaces my viewport) and I'm running aluminum penetrators thru the disk. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising > Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2017 18:01:31 -0700 > > Brian - are you operating in salt or fresh water? All of the vehicles I have worked on, for deployment in seawater, used 6061-T6 aluminum components, hard anodized black, and additionally protected with zinc anodes mounted to appropriately prepared (i.e. unanodized) surfaces. > > Sean > > > > On February 3, 2017 5:06:50 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Alan, > Now you've got me thinking that I might be able to get away with out anodizing my 6061 aluminum. The data that I've been looking at shows good corrosion resistance for the 6061. Hmm... I guess I could just try it out and see what happens ! Worst that could happen is I might have to replace the parts down the line. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 23:07:54 +0000 (UTC) > > I am looking at free machining aluminium rod as one of the options for my light housing. > It is sold as 2011 T3 to T6. Is this suitable for hard anodizing? > It is no good for welding. > Alan > > From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 10:51 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance > > Brian, > While Emile has a good anodiser there are many lousy ones out there. Generally anodising will add thickness. Half goes into the metal and half goes on the outside. Depending on the clearance or fit of your threads depends whether you have a problem We anodise but have to allow for clearance.. The Anodisers I have available are very commercial and we have had issues affecting O?ring sealing so pick your anodiser carefully. On a class 3 thread fit you cannot get complacent as 50 microns thickness is still 0.002? so a thread will have a much greater effect While 50 microns is only 25 microns increase it means! 100 microns on clearance diameter if both male and female are anodised.. There are some new processes which claim will not add thickness such as diamondysing but that process is added ontop of normal anodising. I would ask Emile what actual process his anodiser uses. We would need to go to an aircraft certified anodiser. We do our own hard anodising. Pulse anodising will produce better results. Hugh > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of emile via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Saturday, 4 February 2017 7:26 AM > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance > > Brian, > > A good Anodizer can keep it the same size . With 30-50 Micron thickness there can be some Microns ?growth? > Not a issue for O-rings and threads. > My anodize offers a Teflon dip after anodizing to make it more water repellant. > > Emile > > Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: vrijdag 3 februari 2017 18:05 > Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance > > Cliff, Will I have to worry about threads or o ring tolerances after the process? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 10:45:26 -0600 > Brian, I am not a corrosion expert but have found that hard anozizing (Mil-A-8625 type III) seems to work fine for my parts. My experience is that PSUB stuff gets banged around a lot so addeded thinckness and hardness that comes from Mil-A-8625 type III seems to work out better. Most of my marine experience has been in fresh water lakes so we really need to get someone with a lot of saltwater experience to chime in. Also most psubbers don't leave their boats in the water all the time and rinse off the boat after use. This also tends to mitigate corrosion. > > Cliff > > On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Cliff, Is the Mil-A-8625 type III class 2 black anodizing sufficient for exposure to sea water? Using 6061 aluminum. > > Brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:30:18 -0600 > Sounds like you are having fun coming up to speed on PLCs. Get your wife to take the video of your hand waving. We would all appreciate the entailment value! It a lot of fun to bench test components being operated by PLC and see them come to life based on your code. As to compass heading, roll, pitch and yaw sensor, I use the Ocean-server http://www.ocean-server.com/compass.html OS5000-S Solid State tilt compensagted 3 axes digital compass, This is a RS-232 serial device. You have to write som! e PLC ladder logic code to parse the ASCII string sent to the PLC to extract the data, I packaged mine in a small 1-atm aluminum anadoized pod about the size of a tennis ball that I have mounted outside the steel pressure hull behind the pilot. Even though the DoMore CPU you are using has several serial input ports that could be used for this sensor, I ended up getted a dedicated coprocessor module that plugs into one of the AutomationDirect PLC bases that enables me to write the parsing code in BASIC and enables me to dedicate the coprocessor to this sensor. It took me a while to come up to speed on RS-232 comuncations but I now have this working petty much bullet proof. The coprocedssor then sends the heading, pitch, roll and yaw values to the PLC cpu to be used any way you want them. Currently, I am only using this data on my HMI. > Cliff > > > On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 12:52 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Cliff, > Its been slow going as I am finishing building my home. Should be finished in 45 days. But I have been making progress as I learn PLC coding and ladder logic in the evenings. Currently I am working thru the flight Joy Stick switch controls combined with a 4 position joystick base to control the (2) forward canard wings, (2) vertical thrusters (2) horizontal thrusters, and (2) vectored rear thrusters to have a flight experience. I spend many hours in the evening when my wife is not looking waving my hands thru the air simulating flight and then coding the switches needed to make the mane! uver. I'm sure it would be entertaining to record a video. I am curious, are you using any gyroscopic sensors for pitch and roll? I'm thinking I need to have some build into the coding so as to limit my human abilities as safety overrides. > The next step is to get a bench setup with the joystick and canard wings to run tests on the coding and for flight training purposes. Just need to finish the house first. Mean while I'll be waving my hands in the air for a while. > > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > David, hope that you have made some progress on the design work for SeaQuester. When I first installed life support on the R300, I had sensors distributed all over the boat. What I have move to is packaging all the Life Support related sensors in a single electrical box I call the AMOC module. AMOC is an acronym for Air Management and Oxygen Control. This made it easier to maintain the system and made it easy to bench test. I feed HP O2 from an external tank to! this box. It in turn breaks the pressure and emits the O2 to keep the mole percent balanced. The PLC interfaces with the AMOC unit to monitor and control the air in the cabin. If you are interested, send me your email address to cliffordredus at sbcglobal.net and I will send you the DCI for the drawings associated with the AMOC unit and the drawings. The axial flow scrubber I use is the same one Alec used for Snoopy. It has worked great. The PLC ladder logic code around the life support system is pretty straight forward. What I like about the system is that it automatically compensates for different sized humans in the boat but yet retains a manual mode in the event both the main and auxiliary power are lost. The assembly drawing for the AMOC unit details all the sensors as well as all the Swagelok fittings and circular disconnect. This unit should work well with the AutomationDirect DoM! ore CPU you have. > > Cliff > > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 7:50 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Cliff, Thanks for answering the question I was just going to ask. Did you build any special case to mount for replacement? I need to back and see the line of code you used so I can use it in my DoMore PLC > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 2:46 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I have had good performance from this company but with their K30 sensor. $85 and does give 0-5v analog output signal. It span is 0-10,000 ppm (0-2%). > > Cliff > > Sent from my iPad > > On Feb 2, 2017, at 2:37 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on these units from COZIR. > http://www.co2meter.com/products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensor > They're only about $70US, have bui! lt in self calibration, super reliable, and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The big rub is that it isn't analog output, but serial. > You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the scrubber, other sensors, etc. > I have an identical system built for the health department currently running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across the city in the elements. They are that good. > > I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so I've been thinking about life support lately. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 4 02:13:00 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 23:13:00 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising Message-ID: <20170203231300.25FD7CE@m0087792.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 4 08:06:42 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 13:06:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising In-Reply-To: <20170203231300.25FD7CE@m0087792.ppops.net> References: <20170203231300.25FD7CE@m0087792.ppops.net> Message-ID: <783273430.814769.1486213602504@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,Can't you just paint the part? ?I have to agree with your thought process, just replace it IF it becomes an issue. ?I think home builders should build?minamalist low cost subs first. ?I know from my own experience that a lack of experience can result in wasted money. ?If your a kick ass engineer it is different of coarse. ?Hank On Saturday, February 4, 2017 12:13 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,???? ??????????????? The cost of anodizing alone I could probably make 3 or 4 duplicates !?? Especially here in Kalifornia !?? They tack on an additional 9% environmental extortion fee, plus 7.5% sales tax !?? It's starting to get expensive !!?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 17:25:02 +1300 Brian,I would get it anodised to be on the safe side. You will have several o-ringssealing on to it not to mention the big one that will seal it to the hull. You?could have seawater entrapped in the o-ring grooves corroding it while it'sout of the water.Alan? Sent from my iPad On 4/02/2017, at 3:45 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean,??? Salt water,? but the aluminum (6061) that I have is completely isolated from any other metal, basically it is a 6" dia?x 11/2" thick disk ( replaces my viewport) and I'm running aluminum penetrators thru the disk.? ?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2017 18:01:31 -0700 Brian - are you operating in salt or fresh water?? All of the vehicles I have worked on, for deployment in seawater, used 6061-T6 aluminum components, hard anodized black, and additionally protected with zinc anodes mounted to appropriately prepared (i.e. unanodized) surfaces.Sean On February 3, 2017 5:06:50 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,??????????? ? Now you've got me thinking that I might be able to get away with out anodizing my 6061 aluminum.? The data that I've been looking at shows good corrosion resistance for the 6061.? Hmm... I guess I could just try it out and see what happens !? Worst that could happen is I might have to replace the parts down the line.? ?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 23:07:54 +0000 (UTC) I am looking at free machining aluminium rod as one of the options for my light housing.It is sold as 2011 T3 to T6. Is this suitable for hard anodizing?It is no good for welding.Alan From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Brian,While Emile has a good anodiser there are many lousy ones out there.? Generally anodising will add thickness.? Half goes into the metal and half goes on the outside.? Depending on the clearance or fit of your threads depends whether you have a problem? We anodise but have to allow for clearance..? The Anodisers I have available are very commercial and we have had issues affecting O?ring sealing so pick your anodiser carefully.? On a class 3 thread fit you cannot get complacent as 50 microns thickness is still 0.002? so a thread will have a much greater effect? While 50 microns is only 25 microns increase it means! 100microns on clearance diameter if both male and female are anodised..? There are some new processes which claim will not add thickness such as diamondysing but that process is added ontop of normal anodising.? I would ask Emile what actual process his anodiser uses.? We would need to go to an aircraft certified anodiser. ??We do our own hard anodising.? Pulse anodising will produce better results.? Hugh ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of emile via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 4 February 2017 7:26 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance ?Brian, ?A good Anodizer can keep it the same size . With 30-50 Micron? thickness there can be some Microns ?growth? Not a issue for O-rings and threads.My anodize offers a Teflon dip after anodizing to make it more water repellant. ?Emile ?Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 3 februari 2017 18:05 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance ?Cliff,???????????????? Will I have to worry about threads or o ring tolerances after the process??? ?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 10:45:26 -0600Brian, I am not a corrosion expert but have found that hard anozizing (Mil-A-8625 type III) seems to work fine for my parts.? My experience is that PSUB stuff gets banged around a lot so addeded thinckness and hardness that comes from Mil-A-8625 type III seems to work out better.? Most of my marine experience has been in fresh water lakes so we really need to get someone with a lot of saltwater experience to chime in.? Also most psubbers don't leave their boats in the water all the time and rinse off the boat after use.? This also tends to mitigate corrosion. ?Cliff ?On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Cliff,?? Is the Mil-A-8625 type III class 2 black? anodizing sufficient for exposure to sea water?? Using 6061 aluminum.??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:30:18 -0600Sounds like you are having fun coming up to speed on PLCs. Get your wife to?take the video of your hand waving.? We would all appreciate the entailment value!? It a lot of fun to bench test components being operated by PLC and see them come to life based on your code.? As to compass heading, roll, pitch and yaw sensor, I use the Ocean-server http://www.ocean-server.com/compass.html? ?OS5000-S Solid State tilt compensagted 3 axes digital compass,? This is a RS-232 serial device. You have to write som! e PLCladder logic code to parse the ASCII string sent to the PLC to extract the data,? I packaged mine in a small 1-atm aluminum anadoized pod about the size of a tennis ball that I have mounted outside the steel pressure hull behind the pilot.? Even though the DoMore CPU you are using has several serial input ports that could be used for this sensor, I ended up getted a dedicated coprocessor module that plugs into one of the AutomationDirect PLC bases that enables me to write the parsing code in?BASIC and enables me to dedicate the coprocessor to this sensor.? It took me a while to come up to speed on RS-232 comuncations but I now have this working petty much bullet proof.? The coprocedssor then sends the heading, pitch, roll and yaw values to the PLC cpu to be used any way you want them.? Currently, I am only using this data on my HMI. Cliff ?On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 12:52 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Hi Cliff,Its been slow going as I am finishing building my home. Should be finished in 45 days. But I have been making progress as I learn PLC coding and ladder logic in the evenings. Currently I am working thru the flight Joy Stick switch controls combined with a 4 position joystick base to control the (2) forward canard wings, (2) vertical thrusters? (2) horizontal thrusters, and (2) vectored rear thrusters to have a flight experience. I spend many hours in the evening when my wife is not looking waving my hands thru the air simulating flight and then coding the switches needed to make the mane! uver.I'm sure it would be entertaining to record a video.? I am curious, are you using any gyroscopic sensors for pitch and roll? I'm thinking I need to have some build into the coding so as to limit my human abilities as safety overrides. The next step is to get a bench setup with the joystick and canard wings to run tests on the coding and for flight training purposes. Just need to finish the house first. Mean while I'll be waving my hands in the air for a while. ?Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave SantaRosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com ?On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote:David, hope that you have made some progress on the design work for SeaQuester. When I first installed life support on the R300, I had sensors distributed all over the boat.? What I have move to is packaging all the Life Support related sensors in?a single?electrical box I call the AMOC module.? AMOC is an acronym for Air Management and Oxygen Control.?This made it easier to maintain the system and made it easy to bench test.?I feed HP O2 from an external tank to! thisbox.? It in turn breaks the pressure and emits the O2 to keep the mole percent balanced.? The PLC interfaces with the AMOC unit to monitor and control the air in the cabin. If you are interested, send me your email address to cliffordredus at sbcglobal.net and I will send you the DCI for the drawings associated with the AMOC ?unit and the drawings.? The axial flow scrubber I use is the same one Alec used for Snoopy.? It has worked great. The PLC ladder logic code around the life support system is pretty straight forward.? What I like about the system is that it automatically compensates for different sized humans in the boat but yet retains a manual mode in the event both the main and auxiliary power are lost.? The assembly drawing for the AMOC unit details all the sensors as well as all the Swagelok fittings and circular disconnect.? This unit should work well with the AutomationDirect DoM! ore CPUyou have. ?Cliff ? ?On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 7:50 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Cliff, Thanks for answering the question I was just going to ask.? Did you build any special case to mount for replacement? I need to back and see the line of code you used so I can use it in my DoMore PLC ?Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com ?On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 2:46 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:I have had good performance from this company but with their K30 sensor. ?$85 and does give 0-5v analog output signal.? It span is 0-10,000 ppm (0-2%).?Cliff Sent from my iPad On Feb 2, 2017, at 2:37 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on these units from COZIR. http://www.co2meter.com/products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensorThey're only about $70US, have bui! lt inself calibration, super reliable, and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The big rub is that it isn't analog output, but serial.You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the scrubber, other sensors, etc.I have an identical system built for the health department currently running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across the city in the elements. They are that good. ?I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so I've been thinking about life supportlately. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 4 08:55:51 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 14:55:51 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising In-Reply-To: <20170203231300.25FD7CE@m0087792.ppops.net> References: <20170203231300.25FD7CE@m0087792.ppops.net> Message-ID: <07c501d27eee$65838500$308a8f00$@nl> Brain, That is a pity . the process itself is not very expensive. My anodizer (http://ko-ar.nl/en/anodising/) charges some 50,- for a 24? domehatch ring. Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zaterdag 4 februari 2017 8:13 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising Alan, The cost of anodizing alone I could probably make 3 or 4 duplicates ! Especially here in Kalifornia ! They tack on an additional 9% environmental extortion fee, plus 7.5% sales tax ! It's starting to get expensive !! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 17:25:02 +1300 Brian, I would get it anodised to be on the safe side. You will have several o-rings sealing on to it not to mention the big one that will seal it to the hull. You could have seawater entrapped in the o-ring grooves corroding it while it's out of the water. Alan Sent from my iPad On 4/02/2017, at 3:45 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean, Salt water, but the aluminum (6061) that I have is completely isolated from any other metal, basically it is a 6" dia x 11/2" thick disk ( replaces my viewport) and I'm running aluminum penetrators thru the disk. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2017 18:01:31 -0700 Brian - are you operating in salt or fresh water? All of the vehicles I have worked on, for deployment in seawater, used 6061-T6 aluminum components, hard anodized black, and additionally protected with zinc anodes mounted to appropriately prepared (i.e. unanodized) surfaces. Sean On February 3, 2017 5:06:50 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, Now you've got me thinking that I might be able to get away with out anodizing my 6061 aluminum. The data that I've been looking at shows good corrosion resistance for the 6061. Hmm... I guess I could just try it out and see what happens ! Worst that could happen is I might have to replace the parts down the line. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 23:07:54 +0000 (UTC) I am looking at free machining aluminium rod as one of the options for my light housing. It is sold as 2011 T3 to T6. Is this suitable for hard anodizing? It is no good for welding. Alan _____ From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Brian, While Emile has a good anodiser there are many lousy ones out there. Generally anodising will add thickness. Half goes into the metal and half goes on the outside. Depending on the clearance or fit of your threads depends whether you have a problem We anodise but have to allow for clearance.. The Anodisers I have available are very commercial and we have had issues affecting O?ring sealing so pick your anodiser carefully. On a class 3 thread fit you cannot get complacent as 50 microns thickness is still 0.002? so a thread will have a much greater effect While 50 microns is only 25 microns increase it means! 100 microns on clearance diameter if both male and female are anodised.. There are some new processes which claim will not add thickness such as diamondysing but that process is added ontop of normal anodising. I would ask Emile what actual process his anodiser uses. We would need to go to an aircraft certified anodiser. We do our own hard anodising. Pulse anodising will produce better results. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of emile via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 4 February 2017 7:26 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Brian, A good Anodizer can keep it the same size . With 30-50 Micron thickness there can be some Microns ?growth? Not a issue for O-rings and threads. My anodize offers a Teflon dip after anodizing to make it more water repellant. Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 3 februari 2017 18:05 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Cliff, Will I have to worry about threads or o ring tolerances after the process? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 10:45:26 -0600 Brian, I am not a corrosion expert but have found that hard anozizing (Mil-A-8625 type III) seems to work fine for my parts. My experience is that PSUB stuff gets banged around a lot so addeded thinckness and hardness that comes from Mil-A-8625 type III seems to work out better. Most of my marine experience has been in fresh water lakes so we really need to get someone with a lot of saltwater experience to chime in. Also most psubbers don't leave their boats in the water all the time and rinse off the boat after use. This also tends to mitigate corrosion. Cliff On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, Is the Mil-A-8625 type III class 2 black anodizing sufficient for exposure to sea water? Using 6061 aluminum. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:30:18 -0600 Sounds like you are having fun coming up to speed on PLCs. Get your wife to take the video of your hand waving. We would all appreciate the entailment value! It a lot of fun to bench test components being operated by PLC and see them come to life based on your code. As to compass heading, roll, pitch and yaw sensor, I use the Ocean-server http://www.ocean-server.com/compass.html OS5000-S Solid State tilt compensagted 3 axes digital compass, This is a RS-232 serial device. You have to write som! e PLC ladder logic code to parse the ASCII string sent to the PLC to extract the data, I packaged mine in a small 1-atm aluminum anadoized pod about the size of a tennis ball that I have mounted outside the steel pressure hull behind the pilot. Even though the DoMore CPU you are using has several serial input ports that could be used for this sensor, I ended up getted a dedicated coprocessor module that plugs into one of the AutomationDirect PLC bases that enables me to write the parsing code in BASIC and enables me to dedicate the coprocessor to this sensor. It took me a while to come up to speed on RS-232 comuncations but I now have this working petty much bullet proof. The coprocedssor then sends the heading, pitch, roll and yaw values to the PLC cpu to be used any way you want them. Currently, I am only using this data on my HMI. Cliff On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 12:52 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, Its been slow going as I am finishing building my home. Should be finished in 45 days. But I have been making progress as I learn PLC coding and ladder logic in the evenings. Currently I am working thru the flight Joy Stick switch controls combined with a 4 position joystick base to control the (2) forward canard wings, (2) vertical thrusters (2) horizontal thrusters, and (2) vectored rear thrusters to have a flight experience. I spend many hours in the evening when my wife is not looking waving my hands thru the air simulating flight and then coding the switches needed to make the mane! uver. I'm sure it would be entertaining to record a video. I am curious, are you using any gyroscopic sensors for pitch and roll? I'm thinking I need to have some build into the coding so as to limit my human abilities as safety overrides. The next step is to get a bench setup with the joystick and canard wings to run tests on the coding and for flight training purposes. Just need to finish the house first. Mean while I'll be waving my hands in the air for a while. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: David, hope that you have made some progress on the design work for SeaQuester. When I first installed life support on the R300, I had sensors distributed all over the boat. What I have move to is packaging all the Life Support related sensors in a single electrical box I call the AMOC module. AMOC is an acronym for Air Management and Oxygen Control. This made it easier to maintain the system and made it easy to bench test. I feed HP O2 from an external tank to! this box. It in turn breaks the pressure and emits the O2 to keep the mole percent balanced. The PLC interfaces with the AMOC unit to monitor and control the air in the cabin. If you are interested, send me your email address to cliffordredus at sbcglobal.net and I will send you the DCI for the drawings associated with the AMOC unit and the drawings. The axial flow scrubber I use is the same one Alec used for Snoopy. It has worked great. The PLC ladder logic code around the life support system is pretty straight forward. What I like about the system is that it automatically compensates for different sized humans in the boat but yet retains a manual mode in the event both the main and auxiliary power are lost. The assembly drawing for the AMOC unit details all the sensors as well as all the Swagelok fittings and circular disconnect. This unit should work well with the AutomationDirect DoM! ore CPU you have. Cliff On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 7:50 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, Thanks for answering the question I was just going to ask. Did you build any special case to mount for replacement? I need to back and see the line of code you used so I can use it in my DoMore PLC Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 2:46 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have had good performance from this company but with their K30 sensor. $85 and does give 0-5v analog output signal. It span is 0-10,000 ppm (0-2%). Cliff Sent from my iPad On Feb 2, 2017, at 2:37 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on these units from COZIR. http://www.co2meter.com/products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensor They're only about $70US, have bui! lt in self calibration, super reliable, and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The big rub is that it isn't analog output, but serial. You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the scrubber, other sensors, etc. I have an identical system built for the health department currently running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across the city in the elements. They are that good. I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so I've been thinking about life support lately. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _____ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 4 10:35:48 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 07:35:48 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising Message-ID: <20170204073548.261D3F1@m0087795.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 4 12:29:48 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 17:29:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising In-Reply-To: <20170204073548.261D3F1@m0087795.ppops.net> References: <20170204073548.261D3F1@m0087795.ppops.net> Message-ID: <481380280.903907.1486229388299@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,?I feel your pain, this is a costly hobby, there are so many unexpected costs, like renovating a house, budget times two. ;-)Hank On Saturday, February 4, 2017 8:36 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,?? That's what I'm thinking maybe just paint with epoxy coating.?? It was going to be almost $200? before taxes and fees, and for just a few parts.???Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 13:06:42 +0000 (UTC) Brian,Can't you just paint the part? ?I have to agree with your thought process, just replace it IF it becomes an issue. ?I think home builders should build?minamalist low cost subs first. ?I know from my own experience that a lack of experience can result in wasted money. ?If your a kick ass engineer it is different of coarse. ?Hank On Saturday, February 4, 2017 12:13 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,???? ??????????????? The cost of anodizing alone I could probably make 3 or 4 duplicates !?? Especially here in Kalifornia !?? They tack on an additional 9% environmental extortion fee, plus 7.5% sales tax !?? It's starting to get expensive !!?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 17:25:02 +1300 Brian,I would get it anodised to be on the safe side. You will have several o-ringssealing on to it not to mention the big one that will seal it to the hull. You?could have seawater entrapped in the o-ring grooves corroding it while it'sout of the water.Alan? Sent from my iPad On 4/02/2017, at 3:45 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean,??? Salt water,? but the aluminum (6061) that I have is completely isolated from any other metal, basically it is a 6" dia?x 11/2" thick disk ( replaces my viewport) and I'm running aluminum penetrators thru the disk.? ?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2017 18:01:31 -0700 Brian - are you operating in salt or fresh water?? All of the vehicles I have worked on, for deployment in seawater, used 6061-T6 aluminum components, hard anodized black, and additionally protected with zinc anodes mounted to appropriately prepared (i.e. unanodized) surfaces.Sean On February 3, 2017 5:06:50 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,??????????? ? Now you've got me thinking that I might be able to get away with out anodizing my 6061 aluminum.? The data that I've been looking at shows good corrosion resistance for the 6061.? Hmm... I guess I could just try it out and see what happens !? Worst that could happen is I might have to replace the parts down the line.? ?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 23:07:54 +0000 (UTC) I am looking at free machining aluminium rod as one of the options for my light housing.It is sold as 2011 T3 to T6. Is this suitable for hard anodizing?It is no good for welding.Alan From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Brian,While Emile has a good anodiser there are many lousy ones out there.? Generally anodising will add thickness.? Half goes into the metal and half goes on the outside.? Depending on the clearance or fit of your threads depends whether you have a problem? We anodise but have to allow for clearance..? The Anodisers I have available are very commercial and we have had issues affecting O?ring sealing so pick your anodiser carefully.? On a class 3 thread fit you cannot get complacent as 50 microns thickness is still 0.002? so a thread will have a much greater effect? While 50 microns is only 25 microns increase it means! 100microns on clearance diameter if both male and female are anodised..? There are some new processes which claim will not add thickness such as diamondysing but that process is added ontop of normal anodising.? I would ask Emile what actual process his anodiser uses.? We would need to go to an aircraft certified anodiser. ??We do our own hard anodising.? Pulse anodising will produce better results.? Hugh ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of emile via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 4 February 2017 7:26 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance ?Brian, ?A good Anodizer can keep it the same size . With 30-50 Micron? thickness there can be some Microns ?growth? Not a issue for O-rings and threads.My anodize offers a Teflon dip after anodizing to make it more water repellant. ?Emile ?Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 3 februari 2017 18:05 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance ?Cliff,???????????????? Will I have to worry about threads or o ring tolerances after the process??? ?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 10:45:26 -0600Brian, I am not a corrosion expert but have found that hard anozizing (Mil-A-8625 type III) seems to work fine for my parts.? My experience is that PSUB stuff gets banged around a lot so addeded thinckness and hardness that comes from Mil-A-8625 type III seems to work out better.? Most of my marine experience has been in fresh water lakes so we really need to get someone with a lot of saltwater experience to chime in.? Also most psubbers don't leave their boats in the water all the time and rinse off the boat after use.? This also tends to mitigate corrosion. ?Cliff ?On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Cliff,?? Is the Mil-A-8625 type III class 2 black? anodizing sufficient for exposure to sea water?? Using 6061 aluminum.??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:30:18 -0600Sounds like you are having fun coming up to speed on PLCs. Get your wife to?take the video of your hand waving.? We would all appreciate the entailment value!? It a lot of fun to bench test components being operated by PLC and see them come to life based on your code.? As to compass heading, roll, pitch and yaw sensor, I use the Ocean-server http://www.ocean-server.com/compass.html? ?OS5000-S Solid State tilt compensagted 3 axes digital compass,? This is a RS-232 serial device. You have to write som! e PLCladder logic code to parse the ASCII string sent to the PLC to extract the data,? I packaged mine in a small 1-atm aluminum anadoized pod about the size of a tennis ball that I have mounted outside the steel pressure hull behind the pilot.? Even though the DoMore CPU you are using has several serial input ports that could be used for this sensor, I ended up getted a dedicated coprocessor module that plugs into one of the AutomationDirect PLC bases that enables me to write the parsing code in?BASIC and enables me to dedicate the coprocessor to this sensor.? It took me a while to come up to speed on RS-232 comuncations but I now have this working petty much bullet proof.? The coprocedssor then sends the heading, pitch, roll and yaw values to the PLC cpu to be used any way you want them.? Currently, I am only using this data on my HMI. Cliff ?On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 12:52 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Hi Cliff,Its been slow going as I am finishing building my home. Should be finished in 45 days. But I have been making progress as I learn PLC coding and ladder logic in the evenings. Currently I am working thru the flight Joy Stick switch controls combined with a 4 position joystick base to control the (2) forward canard wings, (2) vertical thrusters? (2) horizontal thrusters, and (2) vectored rear thrusters to have a flight experience. I spend many hours in the evening when my wife is not looking waving my hands thru the air simulating flight and then coding the switches needed to make the mane! uver.I'm sure it would be entertaining to record a video.? I am curious, are you using any gyroscopic sensors for pitch and roll? I'm thinking I need to have some build into the coding so as to limit my human abilities as safety overrides. The next step is to get a bench setup with the joystick and canard wings to run tests on the coding and for flight training purposes. Just need to finish the house first. Mean while I'll be waving my hands in the air for a while. ?Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave SantaRosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com ?On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote:David, hope that you have made some progress on the design work for SeaQuester. When I first installed life support on the R300, I had sensors distributed all over the boat.? What I have move to is packaging all the Life Support related sensors in?a single?electrical box I call the AMOC module.? AMOC is an acronym for Air Management and Oxygen Control.?This made it easier to maintain the system and made it easy to bench test.?I feed HP O2 from an external tank to! thisbox.? It in turn breaks the pressure and emits the O2 to keep the mole percent balanced.? The PLC interfaces with the AMOC unit to monitor and control the air in the cabin. If you are interested, send me your email address to cliffordredus at sbcglobal.net and I will send you the DCI for the drawings associated with the AMOC ?unit and the drawings.? The axial flow scrubber I use is the same one Alec used for Snoopy.? It has worked great. The PLC ladder logic code around the life support system is pretty straight forward.? What I like about the system is that it automatically compensates for different sized humans in the boat but yet retains a manual mode in the event both the main and auxiliary power are lost.? The assembly drawing for the AMOC unit details all the sensors as well as all the Swagelok fittings and circular disconnect.? This unit should work well with the AutomationDirect DoM! ore CPUyou have. ?Cliff ? ?On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 7:50 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Cliff, Thanks for answering the question I was just going to ask.? Did you build any special case to mount for replacement? I need to back and see the line of code you used so I can use it in my DoMore PLC ?Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com ?On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 2:46 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:I have had good performance from this company but with their K30 sensor. ?$85 and does give 0-5v analog output signal.? It span is 0-10,000 ppm (0-2%).?Cliff Sent from my iPad On Feb 2, 2017, at 2:37 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on these units from COZIR. http://www.co2meter.com/products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensorThey're only about $70US, have bui! lt inself calibration, super reliable, and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The big rub is that it isn't analog output, but serial.You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the scrubber, other sensors, etc.I have an identical system built for the health department currently running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across the city in the elements. They are that good. ?I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so I've been thinking about life supportlately. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 4 14:20:44 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2017 12:20:44 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting equipment Message-ID: A question for those of you building in your home shops, garages or yards: What, if any, lifting and handling equipment did you buy or build for manipulating your sub? I'm talking about A-frames, chain hoists, cranes, block & tackle, roller frames / pipe rollers, engine lifts or other contraptions to enable you to handle and manipulate the heavy pieces. For those that completed a build, what would you want to have if you had to do it again? Sean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 4 14:27:11 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 14:27:11 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <15a0a98333f-58f5-7fa8@webprd-a44.mail.aol.com> Hey guys, I just want to let you guys know I received the K-350 plans yesterday! I need to now just take some time and look through them and start writing down the modifications I want to do. -Ludwig -----Original Message----- From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Feb 1, 2017 11:23 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans Sounds good Alan Rick On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 6:47 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Rick, I am just finalising the design. I took a semi- finished light to a lighting expert friend today, who is going to analyse the LED for the optimum amperage. He says that finding the LEDs sweet spot will enable it to run cool enough for me to go with an acrylic lens rather than glass as I had intended. Will keep you in the loop with regard to progress, but shouldn't be too far off. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/02/2017, at 3:26 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey Alan, Thanks for the input! Do you have any construction pictures of the lights and housings or just a finished picture? Rick On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, the lights I am making are 80mm diameter x 70mm long. There is a 100mm flange for mounting that also holds the lens in. So it will fit in to a 80mm diameter hole & bolt or screw to surrounding material. The LEDs are 80W at 105 lm/W, so 8,400 lm. However I may not drive them that hard, depending on how hot they get in water. I am building a 1 person sub similar to Cliff's R300 & will be having two arranged like car head lights + 1 either side, 1 looking backward & 1 slightly longer as a spot light. I may use the same design as navigation lights, with colored lenses & just back off the power to them. Cheers Alan From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans Hey Cliff That's quite a makeover! I agree, when I bought my plans, it seemed I was having to call Ketteredge a lot for clarification and would of welcomed a cleaned up set. On another note, I am getting ready to fabricate all my external light housings and would like to hear from anyone who is using LED lighting in their housings as far as how many lumans they are and what diameter they are etc. Thanks Rick On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:44 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Spent a couple of months last year working on the design of a modified K-350. I found he original K-350 plans to be pretty weak. Changes made were: Removed aft external motor and prop and replacedwith two fixed Minn Kota 101 thruster with kort nozzle like I have on the R300 Replaced vertical thrusters with two fixed MinnKota 101 thrusters with kort nozzle Propulsion and depth station keeping all fly by wirewith joystick control Move air tanks (two 100 SCF aluminum scuba tanks) outside hull old location of mainpropulsion motor PLC for control of all systems (same as R300) HMI and joystick on mobile to permit operationfrom prone, sitting or standing position. Replaced life support with fully automated designused on R300 Moved electrical components into threeelectrical boxes on or near aft elliptical head Added sensors for main and auxiliary batteryvoltage and current, ambient water pressure and temperature, cabin pressure,temperature, and humidly, compass heading, boat roll and pitch, boat altitudeand speed. Life support system hassensors for CO2, O2 concentrations, O2 tank pressure, mass rate of O2 during O2makeup. Pressure sensor for HP air bank and regulated air pressure. Increased main battery capacity to 400 Ah which required increasing the battery poddiameter to 16? OD and 47? seam to seam Replaced the main and auxiliary battery banks with 16 OPTIMA BATTERIESBLUE TOP DEEP CYCLE MARINE BATTERY GROUP D34M. 12 for main buss and 4 for auxiliary buss. 8 batteries per pod Widened the spacing on battery pods to 38? Added two additional viewports Added external LED lights Added compass/pitch/roll sensors off R300 Changed design of battery pods detachable heads toflange style Redesigned the MBT and VBT controls. Utilize Hugh Fulton pancake style pneumaticallyoperated MBT vent valves Modified MBTs by closing the bottoms lengthened VBT to 18? seam to seam to increasethe volume to 8.75 gals Added compass/pitch/roll sensors off R300 Built out boat in Autodesk Inventorprofessional. Drawing package updated, 51 assembly drawingsand 160 part drawings With mods, the current boat weight is 4,707 lbs,without pilot or passenger With mods, the current boat submergeddisplacement is 4,866 lbs, Buoyancy of boat with VBT and MBT fully blown is5,849 lbf Boat Reserve of buoyancy is 9.2% Cliff On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nice for the list ! I can't wait to read all the suggested modifications ans specs ! Philippe 2017-01-29 9:22 GMT-05:00 via Personal_Submersibles : Emile, I actually already started a list on what I want to improve on the K350! I was actually thinking about having a 1 meter hull dia Improve depth rating to around 300 meters Look into improving the ballast tanks Have the thrusters be controlled by a joystick -Ludwig -----Original Message----- From: emile via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Sun, Jan 29, 2017 4:47 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans Ludwig, The K350 is a nice sub and the plans might be a good start . Mind some points are a bit outdated. If I build a K350: -1 meter hull dia (was 900mm) -improved ballast tanks -dome window in the bow Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- bounces at psubs.org] Namens via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zaterdag 28 januari 2017 23:36 Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.or g Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans Hey guys, Who should I contact regarding the purchasing of the K-350 plans? I bought the plans at the end of December and still haven't received them. I also sent an email off to sales at psubs.org around two weeks ago and haven't gotten a reply. Thanks, Ludwig ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 4 14:35:09 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 19:35:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting equipment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <643057745.956162.1486236909302@mail.yahoo.com> Sean,I nice Gantry on wheels with an electric hoist is the biggest time saver EVER Period. ?Hank On Saturday, February 4, 2017 12:21 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: A question for those of you building in your home shops, garages or yards:What, if any, lifting and handling equipment did you buy or build for manipulating your sub? I'm talking about A-frames, chain hoists, cranes, block & tackle, roller frames / pipe rollers, engine lifts or other contraptions to enable you to handle and manipulate the heavy pieces. For those that completed a build, what would you want to have if you had to do it again?Sean _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 4 14:41:14 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 19:41:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting equipment In-Reply-To: <643057745.956162.1486236909302@mail.yahoo.com> References: <643057745.956162.1486236909302@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1463052671.959196.1486237274983@mail.yahoo.com> Sean,The electric hoist can be a Warren Winch 12V . ?That is what I use with one pulley to slow it down. ?I just have an AGM battery?mounted on the top by the winch with a battery charger. ?In the summer I put the winch back on my Bob Cat trailer.Hank On Saturday, February 4, 2017 12:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean,I nice Gantry on wheels with an electric hoist is the biggest time saver EVER Period. ?Hank On Saturday, February 4, 2017 12:21 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: A question for those of you building in your home shops, garages or yards:What, if any, lifting and handling equipment did you buy or build for manipulating your sub? I'm talking about A-frames, chain hoists, cranes, block & tackle, roller frames / pipe rollers, engine lifts or other contraptions to enable you to handle and manipulate the heavy pieces. For those that completed a build, what would you want to have if you had to do it again?Sean _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 4 14:50:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 14:50:50 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans In-Reply-To: <15a0a98333f-58f5-7fa8@webprd-a44.mail.aol.com> References: <15a0a98333f-58f5-7fa8@webprd-a44.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: Nice, Let me know the modifications you want to make ! I want to start building my sub soon. You can mail me at phelop at gmail.com. tanks Philippe 2017-02-04 14:27 GMT-05:00 via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > Hey guys, > > I just want to let you guys know I received the K-350 plans yesterday! > > I need to now just take some time and look through them and start writing > down the modifications I want to do. > > -Ludwig > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Sent: Wed, Feb 1, 2017 11:23 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans > > Sounds good Alan > > Rick > > On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 6:47 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi Rick, >> I am just finalising the design. I took a semi- finished light to a >> lighting expert friend today, who is going to analyse the LED for the >> optimum >> amperage. He says that finding the LEDs sweet spot will enable it to run >> cool >> enough for me to go with an acrylic lens rather than glass as I had >> intended. >> Will keep you in the loop with regard to progress, but shouldn't be too >> far off. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 2/02/2017, at 3:26 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hey Alan, >> >> Thanks for the input! Do you have any construction pictures of the lights >> and housings or just a finished picture? >> >> Rick >> >> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Rick, >>> the lights I am making are 80mm diameter x 70mm long. >>> There is a 100mm flange for mounting that also holds the lens in. >>> So it will fit in to a 80mm diameter hole & bolt or screw to surrounding >>> material. >>> The LEDs are 80W at 105 lm/W, so 8,400 lm. However I may not drive them >>> that >>> hard, depending on how hot they get in water. >>> I am building a 1 person sub similar to Cliff's R300 & will be having >>> two arranged like car head lights + 1 either side, 1 looking backward >>> & 1 slightly longer as a spot light. >>> I may use the same design as navigation lights, with colored lenses & >>> just back >>> off the power to them. >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 2, 2017 10:32 AM >>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans >>> >>> Hey Cliff >>> >>> That's quite a makeover! I agree, when I bought my plans, it seemed I >>> was having to call Ketteredge a lot for clarification and would of welcomed >>> a cleaned up set. >>> >>> On another note, I am getting ready to fabricate all my external light >>> housings and would like to hear from anyone who is using LED lighting in >>> their housings as far as how many lumans they are and what diameter they >>> are etc. >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Rick >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:44 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Spent a couple of months last year working on the design of a modified >>> K-350. I found he original K-350 plans to be pretty weak. Changes made >>> were: >>> >>> >>> 1. Removed aft external motor and prop and replaced with two fixed >>> Minn Kota 101 thruster with kort nozzle like I have on the R300 >>> 2. Replaced vertical thrusters with two fixed Minn Kota 101 >>> thrusters with kort nozzle >>> 3. Propulsion and depth station keeping all fly by wire with >>> joystick control >>> 4. Move air tanks (two 100 SCF aluminum scuba tanks) outside hull >>> old location of main propulsion motor >>> 5. PLC for control of all systems (same as R300) >>> 6. HMI and joystick on mobile to permit operation from prone, >>> sitting or standing position. >>> 7. Replaced life support with fully automated design used on R300 >>> 8. Moved electrical components into three electrical boxes on or >>> near aft elliptical head >>> 9. Added sensors for main and auxiliary battery voltage and current, >>> ambient water pressure and temperature, cabin pressure, temperature, and >>> humidly, compass heading, boat roll and pitch, boat altitude and speed. >>> Life support system has sensors for CO2, O2 concentrations, O2 tank >>> pressure, mass rate of O2 during O2 makeup. Pressure sensor for HP air bank >>> and regulated air pressure. >>> 10. Increased main battery capacity to 400 Ah which required >>> increasing the battery pod diameter to 16? OD and 47? seam to seam >>> 11. Replaced the main and auxiliary battery banks with 16 OPTIMA >>> BATTERIES BLUE TOP DEEP CYCLE MARINE BATTERY GROUP D34M. 12 for >>> main buss and 4 for auxiliary buss. 8 batteries per pod >>> 12. Widened the spacing on battery pods to 38? >>> 13. Added two additional viewports >>> 14. Added external LED lights >>> 15. Added compass/pitch/roll sensors off R300 >>> 16. Changed design of battery pods detachable heads to flange style >>> 17. Redesigned the MBT and VBT controls. >>> 18. Utilize Hugh Fulton pancake style pneumatically operated MBT >>> vent valves >>> 19. Modified MBTs by closing the bottoms >>> 20. lengthened VBT to 18? seam to seam to increase the volume to >>> 8.75 gals >>> 21. Added compass/pitch/roll sensors off R300 >>> 22. Built out boat in Autodesk Inventor professional. >>> 23. Drawing package updated, 51 assembly drawings and 160 part >>> drawings >>> 24. With mods, the current boat weight is 4,707 lbs, without pilot >>> or passenger >>> 25. With mods, the current boat submerged displacement is 4,866 >>> lbs, >>> 26. Buoyancy of boat with VBT and MBT fully blown is 5,849 lbf >>> 27. Boat Reserve of buoyancy is 9.2% >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Philippe Robert via >>> Personal_Submersibles >> > wrote: >>> >>> Nice for the list ! I can't wait to read all the suggested modifications >>> ans specs ! >>> >>> Philippe >>> >>> >>> 2017-01-29 9:22 GMT-05:00 via Personal_Submersibles >> rg >: >>> >>> Emile, >>> >>> I actually already started a list on what I want to improve on the K350! >>> >>> I was actually thinking about having a 1 meter hull dia >>> Improve depth rating to around 300 meters >>> Look into improving the ballast tanks >>> Have the thrusters be controlled by a joystick >>> >>> -Ludwig >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: emile via Personal_Submersibles >> > >>> To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' >> rg > >>> Sent: Sun, Jan 29, 2017 4:47 am >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans >>> >>> Ludwig, >>> >>> The K350 is a nice sub and the plans might be a good start . >>> Mind some points are a bit outdated. >>> >>> If I build a K350: >>> -1 meter hull dia (was 900mm) >>> -improved ballast tanks >>> -dome window in the bow >>> >>> Emile >>> >>> *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- >>> bounces at psubs.org ] *Namens *via >>> Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> *Verzonden:* zaterdag 28 januari 2017 23:36 >>> *Aan:* personal_submersibles at psubs.or g >>> >>> *Onderwerp:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans >>> >>> Hey guys, >>> >>> Who should I contact regarding the purchasing of the K-350 plans? >>> >>> I bought the plans at the end of December and still haven't received >>> them. I also sent an email off to sales at psubs.org around two weeks ago >>> and haven't gotten a reply. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Ludwig >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 4 16:36:35 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 13:36:35 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting equipment Message-ID: <20170204133635.2614D6B@m0087794.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 4 16:38:32 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 13:38:32 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber Message-ID: <20170204133832.2614D19@m0087794.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 4 16:53:27 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2017 14:53:27 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber In-Reply-To: a83GcJ4eH6hfna83Hcd7EK References: a83GcJ4eH6hfna83Hcd7EK Message-ID: <1e70817f-7736-4711-affe-ff370070579c@email.android.com> Yes. For the chemical reaction to work properly, the air needs some dwell time against the scrubber media. This may be specified in the media datasheets. Regardless, if your fan is too strong and you're blowing tons of air through it, you may just dry it out while scrubbing really inefficiently. If you slow it down, you give the CO2 time to react and the bed gets more efficient. This is one of the reasons why radial flow scrubbers have an advantage - the surface area is huge, so the actual flow velocity through the bed is minimal in comparison to an axial flow design. You only need enough airflow to remove CO2 faster than you produce it, and ideally to process the entire air volume in your cabin a few times an hour. Slow, large diameter fans will be more effective than a high speed but small fan, and probably easier on your batteries too. Sean On February 4, 2017 2:38:32 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Is there such a thing as to TOO much air flow through a scrubber ?? > > > > > >Brian > >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber >Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:34:40 -0600 > >Brian, see >http://www.ntz-filter.com/Radial_Filtration_versus_Axial_Filtration for >picture which is worth at least a hundred words. > > >Cliff > > > > >On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 11:36 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >What is the difference between a Axial scrubber and a radial ? > > > >Brian > >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >From: via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber >Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 16:29:34 -0600 > >Started life with axial scrubber but now use radial design. Has worked >much better for me. > > >Cliff > >Sent from my iPad > > >On Feb 2, 2017, at 1:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >Thanks' guys, that helps. > >Cliff, I assume you have an axial scrubber > >Hank > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 4 17:19:12 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jerry Koontz via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 17:19:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 44, Issue 36 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <935473885.2465936.1486246752167.JavaMail.root@md20.quartz.synacor.com> To ALL, I went all out. Build a new pole building with overhead crane. Runs the entire length of my building. The pole shed is 42 foot by 60 foot. After reading all the e-male you guys pass back anf forth, I figured that if I am going to spend a small fortune I might as well do it right. Also bought new equipment, lathe, vert. mill, even an old blanchard grinder. Heading out next week for a five week vacation, when we return I will be starting the building of my submarine, IREX. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "via Personal_Submersibles" To: "personal submersibles" Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 1:26:47 PM Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 44, Issue 36 Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Lifting equipment (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) 2. Re: K-350 plans (via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2017 12:20:44 -0700 From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting equipment Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" A question for those of you building in your home shops, garages or yards: What, if any, lifting and handling equipment did you buy or build for manipulating your sub? I'm talking about A-frames, chain hoists, cranes, block & tackle, roller frames / pipe rollers, engine lifts or other contraptions to enable you to handle and manipulate the heavy pieces. For those that completed a build, what would you want to have if you had to do it again? Sean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 14:27:11 -0500 From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans Message-ID: <15a0a98333f-58f5-7fa8 at webprd-a44.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hey guys, I just want to let you guys know I received the K-350 plans yesterday! I need to now just take some time and look through them and start writing down the modifications I want to do. -Ludwig -----Original Message----- From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Feb 1, 2017 11:23 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans Sounds good Alan Rick On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 6:47 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Rick, I am just finalising the design. I took a semi- finished light to a lighting expert friend today, who is going to analyse the LED for the optimum amperage. He says that finding the LEDs sweet spot will enable it to run cool enough for me to go with an acrylic lens rather than glass as I had intended. Will keep you in the loop with regard to progress, but shouldn't be too far off. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/02/2017, at 3:26 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey Alan, Thanks for the input! Do you have any construction pictures of the lights and housings or just a finished picture? Rick On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, the lights I am making are 80mm diameter x 70mm long. There is a 100mm flange for mounting that also holds the lens in. So it will fit in to a 80mm diameter hole & bolt or screw to surrounding material. The LEDs are 80W at 105 lm/W, so 8,400 lm. However I may not drive them that hard, depending on how hot they get in water. I am building a 1 person sub similar to Cliff's R300 & will be having two arranged like car head lights + 1 either side, 1 looking backward & 1 slightly longer as a spot light. I may use the same design as navigation lights, with colored lenses & just back off the power to them. Cheers Alan From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans Hey Cliff That's quite a makeover! I agree, when I bought my plans, it seemed I was having to call Ketteredge a lot for clarification and would of welcomed a cleaned up set. On another note, I am getting ready to fabricate all my external light housings and would like to hear from anyone who is using LED lighting in their housings as far as how many lumans they are and what diameter they are etc. Thanks Rick On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:44 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Spent a couple of months last year working on the design of a modified K-350. I found he original K-350 plans to be pretty weak. Changes made were: Removed aft external motor and prop and replacedwith two fixed Minn Kota 101 thruster with kort nozzle like I have on the R300 Replaced vertical thrusters with two fixed MinnKota 101 thrusters with kort nozzle Propulsion and depth station keeping all fly by wirewith joystick control Move air tanks (two 100 SCF aluminum scuba tanks) outside hull old location of mainpropulsion motor PLC for control of all systems (same as R300) HMI and joystick on mobile to permit operationfrom prone, sitting or standing position. Replaced life support with fully automated designused on R300 Moved electrical components into threeelectrical boxes on or near aft elliptical head Added sensors for main and auxiliary batteryvoltage and current, ambient water pressure and temperature, cabin pressure,temperature, and humidly, compass heading, boat roll and pitch, boat altitudeand speed. Life support system hassensors for CO2, O2 concentrations, O2 tank pressure, mass rate of O2 during O2makeup. Pressure sensor for HP air bank and regulated air pressure. Increased main battery capacity to 400 Ah which required increasing the battery poddiameter to 16? OD and 47? seam to seam Replaced the main and auxiliary battery banks with 16 OPTIMA BATTERIESBLUE TOP DEEP CYCLE MARINE BATTERY GROUP D34M. 12 for main buss and 4 for auxiliary buss. 8 batteries per pod Widened the spacing on battery pods to 38? Added two additional viewports Added external LED lights Added compass/pitch/roll sensors off R300 Changed design of battery pods detachable heads toflange style Redesigned the MBT and VBT controls. Utilize Hugh Fulton pancake style pneumaticallyoperated MBT vent valves Modified MBTs by closing the bottoms lengthened VBT to 18? seam to seam to increasethe volume to 8.75 gals Added compass/pitch/roll sensors off R300 Built out boat in Autodesk Inventorprofessional. Drawing package updated, 51 assembly drawingsand 160 part drawings With mods, the current boat weight is 4,707 lbs,without pilot or passenger With mods, the current boat submergeddisplacement is 4,866 lbs, Buoyancy of boat with VBT and MBT fully blown is5,849 lbf Boat Reserve of buoyancy is 9.2% Cliff On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nice for the list ! I can't wait to read all the suggested modifications ans specs ! Philippe 2017-01-29 9:22 GMT-05:00 via Personal_Submersibles : Emile, I actually already started a list on what I want to improve on the K350! I was actually thinking about having a 1 meter hull dia Improve depth rating to around 300 meters Look into improving the ballast tanks Have the thrusters be controlled by a joystick -Ludwig -----Original Message----- From: emile via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Sun, Jan 29, 2017 4:47 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans Ludwig, The K350 is a nice sub and the plans might be a good start . Mind some points are a bit outdated. If I build a K350: -1 meter hull dia (was 900mm) -improved ballast tanks -dome window in the bow Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- bounces at psubs.org] Namens via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zaterdag 28 januari 2017 23:36 Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.or g Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans Hey guys, Who should I contact regarding the purchasing of the K-350 plans? I bought the plans at the end of December and still haven't received them. I also sent an email off to sales at psubs.org around two weeks ago and haven't gotten a reply. Thanks, Ludwig ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 44, Issue 36 ***************************************************** From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 4 17:59:57 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 12:59:57 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting equipment In-Reply-To: <1463052671.959196.1486237274983@mail.yahoo.com> References: <643057745.956162.1486236909302@mail.yahoo.com> <1463052671.959196.1486237274983@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, What's the lifting capacity and cost of one of those? Rick On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 9:41 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Sean, > The electric hoist can be a Warren Winch 12V . That is what I use with > one pulley to slow it down. I just have an AGM battery mounted on the top > by the winch with a battery charger. In the summer I put the winch back on > my Bob Cat trailer. > Hank > > > On Saturday, February 4, 2017 12:38 PM, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Sean, > I nice Gantry on wheels with an electric hoist is the biggest time saver > EVER Period. > Hank > > > On Saturday, February 4, 2017 12:21 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > A question for those of you building in your home shops, garages or yards: > What, if any, lifting and handling equipment did you buy or build for > manipulating your sub? I'm talking about A-frames, chain hoists, cranes, > block & tackle, roller frames / pipe rollers, engine lifts or other > contraptions to enable you to handle and manipulate the heavy pieces. For > those that completed a build, what would you want to have if you had to do > it again? > Sean > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 4 19:21:05 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 00:21:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting equipment In-Reply-To: References: <643057745.956162.1486236909302@mail.yahoo.com> <1463052671.959196.1486237274983@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <790898335.1053861.1486254065560@mail.yahoo.com> Rick,I think I paid 600 C for my winch. ?Do not buy a cheap Chinese winch. ?They burn out real fast, the Waren winch is the way to go.I even have a wireless remote for it. ?I never use the?wireless though when I am lifting in the shop.Hank On Saturday, February 4, 2017 4:00 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,What's the lifting capacity and cost of one of those?? Rick On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 9:41 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean,The electric hoist can be a Warren Winch 12V .? That is what I use with one pulley to slow it down.? I just have an AGM battery?mounted on the top by the winch with a battery charger.? In the summer I put the winch back on my Bob Cat trailer.Hank On Saturday, February 4, 2017 12:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean,I nice Gantry on wheels with an electric hoist is the biggest time saver EVER Period. ?Hank On Saturday, February 4, 2017 12:21 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: A question for those of you building in your home shops, garages or yards:What, if any, lifting and handling equipment did you buy or build for manipulating your sub? I'm talking about A-frames, chain hoists, cranes, block & tackle, roller frames / pipe rollers, engine lifts or other contraptions to enable you to handle and manipulate the heavy pieces. For those that completed a build, what would you want to have if you had to do it again?Sean ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 4 19:22:33 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 00:22:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 44, Issue 36 In-Reply-To: <935473885.2465936.1486246752167.JavaMail.root@md20.quartz.synacor.com> References: <935473885.2465936.1486246752167.JavaMail.root@md20.quartz.synacor.com> Message-ID: <1376707380.1043102.1486254153054@mail.yahoo.com> Jerry,Nice!Hank On Saturday, February 4, 2017 3:19 PM, Jerry Koontz via Personal_Submersibles wrote: To ALL, I went all out. Build a new pole building with overhead crane. Runs the entire length of my building. The pole shed is 42 foot by 60 foot. After reading all the e-male you guys pass back anf forth, I figured that if I am going to spend a small fortune I might as well do it right. Also bought new equipment, lathe, vert. mill, even an old blanchard grinder. Heading out next week for a five week vacation, when we return I will be starting the building of my submarine, IREX. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "via Personal_Submersibles" To: "personal submersibles" Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 1:26:47 PM Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 44, Issue 36 Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to ??? personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at ??? personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: ? 1. Lifting equipment (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) ? 2. Re: K-350 plans (via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2017 12:20:44 -0700 From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" ??? To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting equipment Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" A question for those of you building in your home shops, garages or yards: What, if any, lifting and handling equipment did you buy or build for manipulating your sub? I'm talking about A-frames, chain hoists, cranes, block & tackle, roller frames / pipe rollers, engine lifts or other contraptions to enable you to handle and manipulate the heavy pieces. For those that completed a build, what would you want to have if you had to do it again? Sean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 14:27:11 -0500 From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans Message-ID: <15a0a98333f-58f5-7fa8 at webprd-a44.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hey guys, I just want to let you guys know I received the K-350 plans yesterday! I need to now just take some time and look through them and start writing down the modifications I want to do. -Ludwig -----Original Message----- From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Feb 1, 2017 11:23 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans Sounds good Alan Rick On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 6:47 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Rick, I am just finalising the design. I took a semi- finished? light to a lighting expert friend today, who is going to analyse the LED for the optimum amperage. He says that finding the LEDs sweet spot will enable it to run cool enough for me to go with an acrylic lens rather than glass as I had intended. Will keep you in the loop with regard to progress, but shouldn't be too far off. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/02/2017, at 3:26 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey Alan, Thanks for the input! Do you have any construction pictures of the lights and housings or just a finished picture? Rick On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, the lights I am making are 80mm diameter x 70mm long. There is a 100mm flange for mounting that also holds the lens in. So it will fit in to a 80mm diameter hole & bolt or screw to surrounding material. The LEDs are 80W at 105 lm/W, so 8,400 lm. However I may not drive them that hard, depending on how hot they get in water. I am building a 1 person sub similar to Cliff's R300 & will be having two arranged like car head lights + 1 either side, 1 looking backward & 1 slightly longer as a spot light. I may use the same design as navigation lights, with colored lenses & just back off the power to them. Cheers Alan ? ? From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans ? Hey Cliff That's quite a makeover! I agree, when I bought my plans, it seemed I was having to call Ketteredge a lot for clarification and would of welcomed a cleaned up set. On another note, I am getting ready to fabricate all my external light housings and would like to hear from anyone who is using LED lighting in their housings as far as how many lumans they are and what diameter they are etc. Thanks Rick On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:44 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Spent a couple of months last year working on the design of a modified K-350.? I found he original K-350 plans to be pretty weak. Changes made were: Removed aft external motor and prop and replacedwith two fixed Minn Kota 101 thruster with kort nozzle like I have on the R300 Replaced vertical thrusters with two fixed MinnKota 101 thrusters with kort nozzle Propulsion and depth station keeping all fly by wirewith joystick control Move air tanks (two 100 SCF aluminum scuba tanks) outside hull old location of mainpropulsion motor PLC for control of all systems (same as R300) HMI and joystick on mobile to permit operationfrom prone, sitting or standing position. Replaced life support with fully automated designused on R300 Moved electrical components into threeelectrical boxes on or near aft elliptical head Added sensors for main and auxiliary batteryvoltage and current, ambient water pressure and temperature, cabin pressure,temperature, and humidly, compass heading, boat roll and pitch, boat altitudeand speed.? Life support system hassensors for CO2, O2 concentrations, O2 tank pressure, mass rate of O2 during O2makeup. Pressure sensor for HP air bank and regulated air pressure. Increased main battery capacity to 400 Ah? which required increasing the battery poddiameter to 16? OD and 47? seam to seam Replaced the main and auxiliary battery banks with 16 OPTIMA BATTERIESBLUE TOP DEEP CYCLE MARINE BATTERY GROUP D34M. 12 for main buss and 4 for auxiliary buss. 8 batteries per pod Widened the spacing on battery pods to 38? Added two additional viewports Added external LED lights Added compass/pitch/roll sensors off R300 Changed design of battery pods detachable heads toflange style Redesigned the MBT and VBT controls.? Utilize Hugh Fulton pancake style pneumaticallyoperated MBT vent valves Modified MBTs by closing the bottoms lengthened VBT to 18? seam to seam to increasethe volume to 8.75 gals Added compass/pitch/roll sensors off R300 Built out boat in Autodesk Inventorprofessional. Drawing package updated, 51 assembly drawingsand 160 part drawings With mods, the current boat weight is 4,707 lbs,without pilot or passenger With mods, the current boat submergeddisplacement? is 4,866 lbs, Buoyancy of boat with VBT and MBT fully blown is5,849 lbf Boat Reserve of buoyancy is 9.2% Cliff On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nice for the list ! I can't wait to read all the suggested modifications ans specs ! Philippe 2017-01-29 9:22 GMT-05:00 via Personal_Submersibles : Emile, I actually already started a list on what I want to improve on the K350! I was actually thinking about having a 1 meter hull dia Improve depth rating to around 300 meters Look into improving the ballast tanks Have the thrusters be controlled by a joystick -Ludwig -----Original Message----- From: emile via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Sun, Jan 29, 2017 4:47 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans Ludwig, The K350 is a nice sub and the plans might be a good start . Mind some points are a bit outdated. If I build a K350: -1 meter hull dia? (was 900mm) -improved ballast tanks -dome window in the bow Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- bounces at psubs.org] Namens via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zaterdag 28 januari 2017 23:36 Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.or g Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans Hey guys, Who should I contact regarding the purchasing of the K-350 plans? I bought the plans at the end of December and still haven't received them.? I also sent an email off to sales at psubs.org around two weeks ago and haven't gotten a reply. Thanks, Ludwig ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 44, Issue 36 ***************************************************** _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 4 19:45:26 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 16:45:26 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber Message-ID: <20170204164526.2631E15@m0087798.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 4 20:31:25 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2017 18:31:25 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber In-Reply-To: aAzQcN5QT3Zy3aAzRcF9SZ References: aAzQcN5QT3Zy3aAzRcF9SZ Message-ID: <2d765293-d050-4401-9d10-d46c82932002@email.android.com> I am skeptical of the utility of the colour indicating absorbent. The reaction front in an axial scrubber is unlikely to be planar (unless perfectly diffused), but rather conical, so you could have breakthrough in the center before the indicating edge approaches the end of the canister, for example. I think actually measuring the CO2 accurately and using the rise in level as the indicator of scrubber breakthrough is the better course of action. One thing to note is that the colour change in the indicating absorbent is usually subtle, and submarine interiors are usually subdued light environments. In some media, the colour is readily apparent immediately after reaction, but the colour fades when left to stand for some time. Also, even if you have an acrylic or polycarbonate canister, dust from the scrubber media can accumulate on the inner wall and make visual inspection difficult. If I were me, I'd be inclined to design a scrubber that would permit relatively easy media or canister changes in situ, with a designed capacity equal to the mission time + reserve time (or split between multiple scrubbers), and then keep one or two additional sealed canisters or media changes tucked away on board. That way, you can make effective use of the media by exhausting it right to breakthrough. If you make short dives, you can do several on the same canister, and if you reach breakthrough (arbitrarily set but below the permissible limit), you change it out. I would choose a radial flow design, with airflow from outside to inside for maximum efficiency, and consider addressing the operating humidity of the sub to keep it between 30% and 70% RH. Some moisture is actually required for the scrubber to function, as the chemical reaction actually occurs in aqueous solution on the surface of the media granules. I would definitely make a point of keeping a partially used scrubber sealed off from atmospheric air when not in use. In the absence of a sealed container, simply keeping your hatch closed would suffice, as once the CO2 in the cabin is all reacted it is inert. Atmospheric air has 400 ppm CO2 in it, which will consume a scrubber over time if left exposed. Sean On February 4, 2017 5:45:26 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >I'd like to do a radial scrubber design but I also would like to use >the indicating SodaSorb, so I can see the color change. Being able to >see the color change with a radial design would be a challenge ! > > > >Brian > >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber >Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2017 14:53:27 -0700 > >Yes. For the chemical reaction to work properly, the air needs some >dwell time against the scrubber media. This may be specified in the >media datasheets. Regardless, if your fan is too strong and you're >blowing tons of air through it, you may just dry it out while scrubbing >really inefficiently. If you slow it down, you give the CO2 time to >react and the bed gets more efficient. This is one of the reasons why >radial flow scrubbers have an advantage - the surface area is huge, so >the actual flow velocity through the bed is minimal in comparison to an >axial flow design. You only need enough airflow to remove CO2 faster >than you produce it, and ideally to process the entire air volume in >your cabin a few times an hour. Slow, large diameter fans will be more >effective than a high speed but small fan, and probably easier on your >batteries too. > >Sean > >On February 4, 2017 2:38:32 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >Is there such a thing as to TOO much air flow through a scrubber ?? > > > > > >Brian > >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber >Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:34:40 -0600 > >Brian, see >http://www.ntz-filter.com/Radial_Filtration_versus_Axial_Filtration for >picture which is worth at least a hundred words. > > >Cliff > > > > >On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 11:36 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >What is the difference between a Axial scrubber and a radial ? > > > >Brian > >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >From: via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber >Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 16:29:34 -0600 > >Started life with axial scrubber but now use radial design. Has ! >worked much better for me. > > >Cliff > >Sent from my iPad > > >On Feb 2, 2017, at 1:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >Thanks' guys, that helps. > >Cliff, I assume you have an axial scrubber > >Hank > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_____________________________________________ > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 4 20:40:08 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 17:40:08 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber Message-ID: <20170204174008.262AE40@m0087797.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 4 21:32:14 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Frankie Bowman via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 21:32:14 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 44, Issue 38 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Snoopy k250? does anyone have the contact info for the new owner of snoopy I need you contact him so I can get some info for my k250 build On Feb 4, 2017 5:20 PM, "via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Lifting equipment (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) > 2. Re: co2 scrubber (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) > 3. Re: co2 scrubber (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) > 4. Re: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 44, Issue 36 > (Jerry Koontz via Personal_Submersibles) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 13:36:35 -0800 > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting equipment > Message-ID: <20170204133635.2614D6B at m0087794.ppops.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: 20170204/8faae9bd/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 13:38:32 -0800 > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber > Message-ID: <20170204133832.2614D19 at m0087794.ppops.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: 20170204/711150c1/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2017 14:53:27 -0700 > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber > Message-ID: <1e70817f-7736-4711-affe-ff370070579c at email.android.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Yes. For the chemical reaction to work properly, the air needs some dwell > time against the scrubber media. This may be specified in the media > datasheets. Regardless, if your fan is too strong and you're blowing tons > of air through it, you may just dry it out while scrubbing really > inefficiently. If you slow it down, you give the CO2 time to react and the > bed gets more efficient. This is one of the reasons why radial flow > scrubbers have an advantage - the surface area is huge, so the actual flow > velocity through the bed is minimal in comparison to an axial flow design. > You only need enough airflow to remove CO2 faster than you produce it, and > ideally to process the entire air volume in your cabin a few times an hour. > Slow, large diameter fans will be more effective than a high speed but > small fan, and probably easier on your batteries too. > > Sean > > > > On February 4, 2017 2:38:32 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >Is there such a thing as to TOO much air flow through a scrubber ?? > > > > > > > > > > > >Brian > > > >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > >From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > > > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber > >Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:34:40 -0600 > > > >Brian, see > >http://www.ntz-filter.com/Radial_Filtration_versus_Axial_Filtration for > >picture which is worth at least a hundred words. > > > > > >Cliff > > > > > > > > > >On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 11:36 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > >What is the difference between a Axial scrubber and a radial ? > > > > > > > >Brian > > > >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > >From: via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber > >Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 16:29:34 -0600 > > > >Started life with axial scrubber but now use radial design. Has worked > >much better for me. > > > > > >Cliff > > > >Sent from my iPad > > > > > >On Feb 2, 2017, at 1:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > >Thanks' guys, that helps. > > > >Cliff, I assume you have an axial scrubber > > > >Hank > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > >mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > >mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: 20170204/004995d1/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 17:19:12 -0500 (EST) > From: Jerry Koontz via Personal_Submersibles > > To: personal submersibles , personal > submersibles-request > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 44, > Issue 36 > Message-ID: > <935473885.2465936.1486246752167.JavaMail.root@ > md20.quartz.synacor.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > To ALL, > > I went all out. Build a new pole building with overhead crane. Runs the > entire length of my building. The pole shed is 42 foot by 60 foot. > After reading all the e-male you guys pass back anf forth, I figured that > if I am going to spend a small fortune I might as well do it > right. Also bought new equipment, lathe, vert. mill, even an old blanchard > grinder. Heading out next week for a five week vacation, when we return > I will be starting the building of my submarine, IREX. > Jerry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "via Personal_Submersibles" > To: "personal submersibles" > Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 1:26:47 PM > Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 44, Issue 36 > > Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Lifting equipment (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) > 2. Re: K-350 plans (via Personal_Submersibles) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2017 12:20:44 -0700 > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting equipment > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > A question for those of you building in your home shops, garages or yards: > > What, if any, lifting and handling equipment did you buy or build for > manipulating your sub? I'm talking about A-frames, chain hoists, cranes, > block & tackle, roller frames / pipe rollers, engine lifts or other > contraptions to enable you to handle and manipulate the heavy pieces. For > those that completed a build, what would you want to have if you had to do > it again? > > Sean > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: 20170204/af601e21/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 14:27:11 -0500 > From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans > Message-ID: <15a0a98333f-58f5-7fa8 at webprd-a44.mail.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hey guys, > > > I just want to let you guys know I received the K-350 plans yesterday! > > > I need to now just take some time and look through them and start writing > down the modifications I want to do. > > > -Ludwig > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Sent: Wed, Feb 1, 2017 11:23 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans > > > > Sounds good Alan > > > Rick > > > > On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 6:47 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hi Rick, > I am just finalising the design. I took a semi- finished light to a > lighting expert friend today, who is going to analyse the LED for the > optimum > amperage. He says that finding the LEDs sweet spot will enable it to run > cool > enough for me to go with an acrylic lens rather than glass as I had > intended. > Will keep you in the loop with regard to progress, but shouldn't be too > far off. > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 2/02/2017, at 3:26 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Hey Alan, > > > Thanks for the input! Do you have any construction pictures of the lights > and housings or just a finished picture? > > > Rick > > > > On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Rick, > the lights I am making are 80mm diameter x 70mm long. > There is a 100mm flange for mounting that also holds the lens in. > So it will fit in to a 80mm diameter hole & bolt or screw to surrounding > material. > The LEDs are 80W at 105 lm/W, so 8,400 lm. However I may not drive them > that > hard, depending on how hot they get in water. > I am building a 1 person sub similar to Cliff's R300 & will be having > two arranged like car head lights + 1 either side, 1 looking backward > & 1 slightly longer as a spot light. > I may use the same design as navigation lights, with colored lenses & just > back > off the power to them. > Cheers Alan > > > > > > > > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 10:32 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans > > > > > > > Hey Cliff > > > That's quite a makeover! I agree, when I bought my plans, it seemed I was > having to call Ketteredge a lot for clarification and would of welcomed a > cleaned up set. > > > On another note, I am getting ready to fabricate all my external light > housings and would like to hear from anyone who is using LED lighting in > their housings as far as how many lumans they are and what diameter they > are etc. > > > Thanks > > > Rick > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:44 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > Spent a couple of months last year working on the design of a modified > K-350. I found he original K-350 plans to be pretty weak. Changes made > were: > > > > > Removed aft external motor and prop and replacedwith two fixed Minn Kota > 101 thruster with kort nozzle like I have on the R300 > > Replaced vertical thrusters with two fixed MinnKota 101 thrusters with > kort nozzle > > Propulsion and depth station keeping all fly by wirewith joystick control > > Move air tanks (two 100 SCF aluminum scuba tanks) outside hull old > location of mainpropulsion motor > > PLC for control of all systems (same as R300) > > HMI and joystick on mobile to permit operationfrom prone, sitting or > standing position. > > Replaced life support with fully automated designused on R300 > > Moved electrical components into threeelectrical boxes on or near aft > elliptical head > > Added sensors for main and auxiliary batteryvoltage and current, ambient > water pressure and temperature, cabin pressure,temperature, and humidly, > compass heading, boat roll and pitch, boat altitudeand speed. Life support > system hassensors for CO2, O2 concentrations, O2 tank pressure, mass rate > of O2 during O2makeup. Pressure sensor for HP air bank and regulated air > pressure. > > Increased main battery capacity to 400 Ah which required increasing the > battery poddiameter to 16? OD and 47? seam to seam > > Replaced the main and auxiliary battery banks with 16 OPTIMA BATTERIESBLUE > TOP DEEP CYCLE MARINE BATTERY GROUP D34M. 12 for main buss and 4 for > auxiliary buss. 8 batteries per pod > > Widened the spacing on battery pods to 38? > > Added two additional viewports > > Added external LED lights > > Added compass/pitch/roll sensors off R300 > > > Changed design of battery pods detachable heads toflange style > > Redesigned the MBT and VBT controls. > > Utilize Hugh Fulton pancake style pneumaticallyoperated MBT vent valves > > Modified MBTs by closing the bottoms > > lengthened VBT to 18? seam to seam to increasethe volume to 8.75 gals > > Added compass/pitch/roll sensors off R300 > > Built out boat in Autodesk Inventorprofessional. > > Drawing package updated, 51 assembly drawingsand 160 part drawings > > With mods, the current boat weight is 4,707 lbs,without pilot or passenger > > With mods, the current boat submergeddisplacement is 4,866 lbs, > > Buoyancy of boat with VBT and MBT fully blown is5,849 lbf > > Boat Reserve of buoyancy is 9.2% > > Cliff > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Philippe Robert via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Nice for the list ! I can't wait to read all the suggested modifications > ans specs ! > > > Philippe > > > > > > 2017-01-29 9:22 GMT-05:00 via Personal_Submersibles > : > > Emile, > > > I actually already started a list on what I want to improve on the K350! > > > I was actually thinking about having a 1 meter hull dia > Improve depth rating to around 300 meters > Look into improving the ballast tanks > Have the thrusters be controlled by a joystick > > > -Ludwig > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: emile via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > > Sent: Sun, Jan 29, 2017 4:47 am > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans > > > > Ludwig, > > The K350 is a nice sub and the plans might be a good start . > Mind some points are a bit outdated. > > If I build a K350: > -1 meter hull dia (was 900mm) > -improved ballast tanks > -dome window in the bow > > Emile > > > Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] Namens via Personal_Submersibles > > Verzonden: zaterdag 28 januari 2017 23:36 > Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.or g > Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans > > > > > > Hey guys, > > > > Who should I contact regarding the purchasing of the K-350 plans? > > > > I bought the plans at the end of December and still haven't received > them. I also sent an email off to sales at psubs.org around two weeks ago > and haven't gotten a reply. > > > > Thanks, > > Ludwig > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: 20170204/e4560e5b/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 44, Issue 36 > ***************************************************** > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 44, Issue 38 > ***************************************************** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 5 00:57:31 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 00:57:31 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 44, Issue 38 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Frankie, my name is Douglas Suhr, I am Snoopy's current owner. I would encourage you to ask questions directly on the list so that you have the benefit of the entire PSUBS community, but if you wish to email me privately, my email address is spiritofcalypso at gmail.com I would also recommend reaching out to Alec Smyth at alecsmyth at gmail.com because not only was he Snoopy's previous owner, but he is responsible for much of the handiwork that makes Snoopy more than the stock standard design (live rudder / handheld thruster control box, saddle tanks, etc.). ~ Doug S. On 2/4/17, Frankie Bowman via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Snoopy k250? does anyone have the contact info for the new owner of snoopy > I need you contact him so I can get some info for my k250 build > > On Feb 4, 2017 5:20 PM, "via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Lifting equipment (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) >> 2. Re: co2 scrubber (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) >> 3. Re: co2 scrubber (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) >> 4. Re: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 44, Issue 36 >> (Jerry Koontz via Personal_Submersibles) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 13:36:35 -0800 >> From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting equipment >> Message-ID: <20170204133635.2614D6B at m0087794.ppops.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: > 20170204/8faae9bd/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 13:38:32 -0800 >> From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber >> Message-ID: <20170204133832.2614D19 at m0087794.ppops.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: > 20170204/711150c1/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2017 14:53:27 -0700 >> From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" >> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber >> Message-ID: <1e70817f-7736-4711-affe-ff370070579c at email.android.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Yes. For the chemical reaction to work properly, the air needs some dwell >> time against the scrubber media. This may be specified in the media >> datasheets. Regardless, if your fan is too strong and you're blowing tons >> of air through it, you may just dry it out while scrubbing really >> inefficiently. If you slow it down, you give the CO2 time to react and >> the >> bed gets more efficient. This is one of the reasons why radial flow >> scrubbers have an advantage - the surface area is huge, so the actual >> flow >> velocity through the bed is minimal in comparison to an axial flow >> design. >> You only need enough airflow to remove CO2 faster than you produce it, >> and >> ideally to process the entire air volume in your cabin a few times an >> hour. >> Slow, large diameter fans will be more effective than a high speed but >> small fan, and probably easier on your batteries too. >> >> Sean >> >> >> >> On February 4, 2017 2:38:32 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >Is there such a thing as to TOO much air flow through a scrubber ?? >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >Brian >> > >> >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> > >> >From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >> > >> >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> > >> >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber >> >Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:34:40 -0600 >> > >> >Brian, see >> >http://www.ntz-filter.com/Radial_Filtration_versus_Axial_Filtration for >> >picture which is worth at least a hundred words. >> > >> > >> >Cliff >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 11:36 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> > wrote: >> > >> >What is the difference between a Axial scrubber and a radial ? >> > >> > >> > >> >Brian >> > >> >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> > >> >From: via Personal_Submersibles >> >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> > >> >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber >> >Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 16:29:34 -0600 >> > >> >Started life with axial scrubber but now use radial design. Has worked >> >much better for me. >> > >> > >> >Cliff >> > >> >Sent from my iPad >> > >> > >> >On Feb 2, 2017, at 1:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> > wrote: >> > >> >Thanks' guys, that helps. >> > >> >Cliff, I assume you have an axial scrubber >> > >> >Hank >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> >mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> >mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> > >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: > 20170204/004995d1/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 17:19:12 -0500 (EST) >> From: Jerry Koontz via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: personal submersibles , personal >> submersibles-request >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 44, >> Issue 36 >> Message-ID: >> <935473885.2465936.1486246752167.JavaMail.root@ >> md20.quartz.synacor.com> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> To ALL, >> >> I went all out. Build a new pole building with overhead crane. Runs the >> entire length of my building. The pole shed is 42 foot by 60 foot. >> After reading all the e-male you guys pass back anf forth, I figured that >> if I am going to spend a small fortune I might as well do it >> right. Also bought new equipment, lathe, vert. mill, even an old >> blanchard >> grinder. Heading out next week for a five week vacation, when we return >> I will be starting the building of my submarine, IREX. >> Jerry >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "via Personal_Submersibles" >> To: "personal submersibles" >> Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 1:26:47 PM >> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 44, Issue 36 >> >> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Lifting equipment (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) >> 2. Re: K-350 plans (via Personal_Submersibles) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2017 12:20:44 -0700 >> From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" >> >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting equipment >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> A question for those of you building in your home shops, garages or >> yards: >> >> What, if any, lifting and handling equipment did you buy or build for >> manipulating your sub? I'm talking about A-frames, chain hoists, cranes, >> block & tackle, roller frames / pipe rollers, engine lifts or other >> contraptions to enable you to handle and manipulate the heavy pieces. For >> those that completed a build, what would you want to have if you had to >> do >> it again? >> >> Sean >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: > 20170204/af601e21/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 14:27:11 -0500 >> From: via Personal_Submersibles >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans >> Message-ID: <15a0a98333f-58f5-7fa8 at webprd-a44.mail.aol.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Hey guys, >> >> >> I just want to let you guys know I received the K-350 plans yesterday! >> >> >> I need to now just take some time and look through them and start writing >> down the modifications I want to do. >> >> >> -Ludwig >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> > org> >> Sent: Wed, Feb 1, 2017 11:23 pm >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans >> >> >> >> Sounds good Alan >> >> >> Rick >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 6:47 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Hi Rick, >> I am just finalising the design. I took a semi- finished light to a >> lighting expert friend today, who is going to analyse the LED for the >> optimum >> amperage. He says that finding the LEDs sweet spot will enable it to run >> cool >> enough for me to go with an acrylic lens rather than glass as I had >> intended. >> Will keep you in the loop with regard to progress, but shouldn't be too >> far off. >> Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> On 2/02/2017, at 3:26 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hey Alan, >> >> >> Thanks for the input! Do you have any construction pictures of the lights >> and housings or just a finished picture? >> >> >> Rick >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Rick, >> the lights I am making are 80mm diameter x 70mm long. >> There is a 100mm flange for mounting that also holds the lens in. >> So it will fit in to a 80mm diameter hole & bolt or screw to surrounding >> material. >> The LEDs are 80W at 105 lm/W, so 8,400 lm. However I may not drive them >> that >> hard, depending on how hot they get in water. >> I am building a 1 person sub similar to Cliff's R300 & will be having >> two arranged like car head lights + 1 either side, 1 looking backward >> & 1 slightly longer as a spot light. >> I may use the same design as navigation lights, with colored lenses & >> just >> back >> off the power to them. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >> > org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 10:32 AM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hey Cliff >> >> >> That's quite a makeover! I agree, when I bought my plans, it seemed I was >> having to call Ketteredge a lot for clarification and would of welcomed a >> cleaned up set. >> >> >> On another note, I am getting ready to fabricate all my external light >> housings and would like to hear from anyone who is using LED lighting in >> their housings as far as how many lumans they are and what diameter they >> are etc. >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> Rick >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:44 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> Spent a couple of months last year working on the design of a modified >> K-350. I found he original K-350 plans to be pretty weak. Changes made >> were: >> >> >> >> >> Removed aft external motor and prop and replacedwith two fixed Minn Kota >> 101 thruster with kort nozzle like I have on the R300 >> >> Replaced vertical thrusters with two fixed MinnKota 101 thrusters with >> kort nozzle >> >> Propulsion and depth station keeping all fly by wirewith joystick control >> >> Move air tanks (two 100 SCF aluminum scuba tanks) outside hull old >> location of mainpropulsion motor >> >> PLC for control of all systems (same as R300) >> >> HMI and joystick on mobile to permit operationfrom prone, sitting or >> standing position. >> >> Replaced life support with fully automated designused on R300 >> >> Moved electrical components into threeelectrical boxes on or near aft >> elliptical head >> >> Added sensors for main and auxiliary batteryvoltage and current, ambient >> water pressure and temperature, cabin pressure,temperature, and humidly, >> compass heading, boat roll and pitch, boat altitudeand speed. Life >> support >> system hassensors for CO2, O2 concentrations, O2 tank pressure, mass rate >> of O2 during O2makeup. Pressure sensor for HP air bank and regulated air >> pressure. >> >> Increased main battery capacity to 400 Ah which required increasing the >> battery poddiameter to 16? OD and 47? seam to seam >> >> Replaced the main and auxiliary battery banks with 16 OPTIMA >> BATTERIESBLUE >> TOP DEEP CYCLE MARINE BATTERY GROUP D34M. 12 for main buss and 4 for >> auxiliary buss. 8 batteries per pod >> >> Widened the spacing on battery pods to 38? >> >> Added two additional viewports >> >> Added external LED lights >> >> Added compass/pitch/roll sensors off R300 >> >> >> Changed design of battery pods detachable heads toflange style >> >> Redesigned the MBT and VBT controls. >> >> Utilize Hugh Fulton pancake style pneumaticallyoperated MBT vent valves >> >> Modified MBTs by closing the bottoms >> >> lengthened VBT to 18? seam to seam to increasethe volume to 8.75 gals >> >> Added compass/pitch/roll sensors off R300 >> >> Built out boat in Autodesk Inventorprofessional. >> >> Drawing package updated, 51 assembly drawingsand 160 part drawings >> >> With mods, the current boat weight is 4,707 lbs,without pilot or >> passenger >> >> With mods, the current boat submergeddisplacement is 4,866 lbs, >> >> Buoyancy of boat with VBT and MBT fully blown is5,849 lbf >> >> Boat Reserve of buoyancy is 9.2% >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Philippe Robert via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Nice for the list ! I can't wait to read all the suggested modifications >> ans specs ! >> >> >> Philippe >> >> >> >> >> >> 2017-01-29 9:22 GMT-05:00 via Personal_Submersibles >> : >> >> Emile, >> >> >> I actually already started a list on what I want to improve on the K350! >> >> >> I was actually thinking about having a 1 meter hull dia >> Improve depth rating to around 300 meters >> Look into improving the ballast tanks >> Have the thrusters be controlled by a joystick >> >> >> -Ludwig >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: emile via Personal_Submersibles >> To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' >> >> Sent: Sun, Jan 29, 2017 4:47 am >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans >> >> >> >> Ludwig, >> >> The K350 is a nice sub and the plans might be a good start . >> Mind some points are a bit outdated. >> >> If I build a K350: >> -1 meter hull dia (was 900mm) >> -improved ballast tanks >> -dome window in the bow >> >> Emile >> >> >> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- >> bounces at psubs.org] Namens via Personal_Submersibles >> >> Verzonden: zaterdag 28 januari 2017 23:36 >> Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.or g >> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 plans >> >> >> >> >> >> Hey guys, >> >> >> >> Who should I contact regarding the purchasing of the K-350 plans? >> >> >> >> I bought the plans at the end of December and still haven't received >> them. I also sent an email off to sales at psubs.org around two weeks ago >> and haven't gotten a reply. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ludwig >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: > 20170204/e4560e5b/attachment.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 44, Issue 36 >> ***************************************************** >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 44, Issue 38 >> ***************************************************** >> > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 5 19:59:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 00:59:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1761852989.1398609.1486342783139@mail.yahoo.com> Here is a super short video of my flange facing machine hard at work. ?When I mounted the dome originally, I fit it to the hull by hand. ?I decided to check my work and machine it with my flange facing machine, just to be sure. ?Turns out it ?was good, but it never ?hurts to check. ?I also did the aluminum seat ring and that turned out excellent.Hank On Sunday, February 5, 2017 5:54 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgtAkWcnFIE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2017-02-05 at 5.53 PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18286 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 5 20:16:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 01:16:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <1761852989.1398609.1486342783139@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1761852989.1398609.1486342783139@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1484304452.1526947.1486343804072@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,can't get it to run & not showing on your channel.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, February 6, 2017 1:59 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Here is a super short video of my flange facing machine hard at work. ?When I mounted the dome originally, I fit it to the hull by hand. ?I decided to check my work and machine it with my flange facing machine, just to be sure. ?Turns out it ?was good, but it never ?hurts to check. ?I also did the aluminum seat ring and that turned out excellent.Hank On Sunday, February 5, 2017 5:54 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgtAkWcnFIE _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2017-02-05 at 5.53 PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18286 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 5 20:32:51 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 01:32:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring Question References: <1619033191.1531803.1486344771910.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1619033191.1531803.1486344771910@mail.yahoo.com> Hi,am having trouble Googling an answer to this question.?? I have an O-ring groove in the bore of my light housing, sealingbetween the bore & the side of my acrylic lens as per attached diagram.On a piston O-ring groove it calls for an optimal 2% stretch & not more than 5%.I can't find any reference to what stretch if any should be, if any, for an o-ringin a bore groove. I did see that in a rotary application they don't advice thattheir should be any pressure on the rotating rod.Should I be designing so that the o-ring will have a 2% stretch around the lens?Thanks, Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: LIGHT 0-RING.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 106438 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 5 20:39:42 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2017 18:39:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring Question In-Reply-To: aYBmcRckX6hfnaYBncix0b References: <1619033191.1531803.1486344771910.ref@mail.yahoo.com> aYBmcRckX6hfnaYBncix0b Message-ID: <357afccb-5e60-425d-9b97-e86695e59876@email.android.com> Alan, do you have a copy of the Parker O-ring handbook? Best free resource out there for designing O-ring seals. ORD5700.pdf Download it from the Parker website. Sean On February 5, 2017 6:32:51 PM MST, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi,am having trouble Googling an answer to this question.?? I have an >O-ring groove in the bore of my light housing, sealingbetween the bore >& the side of my acrylic lens as per attached diagram.On a piston >O-ring groove it calls for an optimal 2% stretch & not more than 5%.I >can't find any reference to what stretch if any should be, if any, for >an o-ringin a bore groove. I did see that in a rotary application they >don't advice thattheir should be any pressure on the rotating >rod.Should I be designing so that the o-ring will have a 2% stretch >around the lens?Thanks, Alan > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 5 20:47:30 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 01:47:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <1484304452.1526947.1486343804072@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1761852989.1398609.1486342783139@mail.yahoo.com> <1484304452.1526947.1486343804072@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1901599874.1411844.1486345650691@mail.yahoo.com> Hmm, I did load it from my phone this time. ?I will check it out.Hank On Sunday, February 5, 2017 6:17 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,can't get it to run & not showing on your channel.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, February 6, 2017 1:59 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Here is a super short video of my flange facing machine hard at work. ?When I mounted the dome originally, I fit it to the hull by hand. ?I decided to check my work and machine it with my flange facing machine, just to be sure. ?Turns out it ?was good, but it never ?hurts to check. ?I also did the aluminum seat ring and that turned out excellent.Hank On Sunday, February 5, 2017 5:54 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgtAkWcnFIE _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2017-02-05 at 5.53 PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18286 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 5 20:50:42 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 01:50:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring Question In-Reply-To: <357afccb-5e60-425d-9b97-e86695e59876@email.android.com> References: <1619033191.1531803.1486344771910.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <357afccb-5e60-425d-9b97-e86695e59876@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1104901799.1536564.1486345842603@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Sean,yes had a quick look through that, along with other material.Spent a couple of hours & still haven't come up with an answer towhat seemed a simple question!Maybe I'll have to read through it slowly!Cheers Alan From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, February 6, 2017 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring Question Alan, do you have a copy of the Parker O-ring handbook? Best free resource out there for designing O-ring seals. ORD5700.pdf? Download it from the Parker website.Sean On February 5, 2017 6:32:51 PM MST, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi,am having trouble Googling an answer to this question.?? I have an O-ring groove in the bore of my light housing, sealingbetween the bore & the side of my acrylic lens as per attached diagram.On a piston O-ring groove it calls for an optimal 2% stretch & not more than 5%.I can't find any reference to what stretch if any should be, if any, for an o-ringin a bore groove. I did see that in a! rotaryapplication they don't advice thattheir should be any pressure on the rotating rod.Should I be designing so that the o-ring will have a 2% stretch around the lens?Thanks, Alan Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 5 20:56:18 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 01:56:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring Question In-Reply-To: <357afccb-5e60-425d-9b97-e86695e59876@email.android.com> References: <1619033191.1531803.1486344771910.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <357afccb-5e60-425d-9b97-e86695e59876@email.android.com> Message-ID: <280794455.1546902.1486346178547@mail.yahoo.com> Another way of looking at it is, if you have a groove in a cylinder & have a 2% stretch on the O-ring, it pulls the O-ringin to the base of the groove. Whereas if you have a 2%stretch on an o-ring in a bore grove it will pull the o-ringaway from the base of the groove but on to the piston.So not sure which way to go here.Alan From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, February 6, 2017 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring Question Alan, do you have a copy of the Parker O-ring handbook? Best free resource out there for designing O-ring seals. ORD5700.pdf? Download it from the Parker website.Sean On February 5, 2017 6:32:51 PM MST, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi,am having trouble Googling an answer to this question.?? I have an O-ring groove in the bore of my light housing, sealingbetween the bore & the side of my acrylic lens as per attached diagram.On a piston O-ring groove it calls for an optimal 2% stretch & not more than 5%.I can't find any reference to what stretch if any should be, if any, for an o-ringin a bore groove. I did see that in a! rotaryapplication they don't advice thattheir should be any pressure on the rotating rod.Should I be designing so that the o-ring will have a 2% stretch around the lens?Thanks, Alan Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 5 20:59:02 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 01:59:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring Question In-Reply-To: <1104901799.1536564.1486345842603@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1619033191.1531803.1486344771910.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <357afccb-5e60-425d-9b97-e86695e59876@email.android.com> <1104901799.1536564.1486345842603@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1480005709.1388386.1486346342942@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,If your glass is say 2 inces diameter then use a 2 inch o-ring with a groove design from the o-ring groove chart. ?You will also find a spec for the?clearance between the glass and housing. On Sunday, February 5, 2017 6:52 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Sean,yes had a quick look through that, along with other material.Spent a couple of hours & still haven't come up with an answer towhat seemed a simple question!Maybe I'll have to read through it slowly!Cheers Alan From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, February 6, 2017 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring Question Alan, do you have a copy of the Parker O-ring handbook? Best free resource out there for designing O-ring seals. ORD5700.pdf? Download it from the Parker website.Sean On February 5, 2017 6:32:51 PM MST, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi,am having trouble Googling an answer to this question.?? I have an O-ring groove in the bore of my light housing, sealingbetween the bore & the side of my acrylic lens as per attached diagram.On a piston O-ring groove it calls for an optimal 2% stretch & not more than 5%.I can't find any reference to what stretch if any should be, if any, for an o-ringin a bore groove. I did see that in a! rotaryapplication they don't advice thattheir should be any pressure on the rotating rod.Should I be designing so that the o-ring will have a 2% stretch around the lens?Thanks, Alan Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 5 21:13:12 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 02:13:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring Question In-Reply-To: <1480005709.1388386.1486346342942@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1619033191.1531803.1486344771910.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <357afccb-5e60-425d-9b97-e86695e59876@email.android.com> <1104901799.1536564.1486345842603@mail.yahoo.com> <1480005709.1388386.1486346342942@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1912905411.1538693.1486347192759@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Hank,I have 4 O-rings in my light design & had gone through the calculationsbefore designing. However one of these O-rings is in the bore groove? & I'mhaving a re-think about this one, but can't find any specific advice forthis application.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, February 6, 2017 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring Question Alan,If your glass is say 2 inces diameter then use a 2 inch o-ring with a groove design from the o-ring groove chart. ?You will also find a spec for the?clearance between the glass and housing. On Sunday, February 5, 2017 6:52 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Sean,yes had a quick look through that, along with other material.Spent a couple of hours & still haven't come up with an answer towhat seemed a simple question!Maybe I'll have to read through it slowly!Cheers Alan From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, February 6, 2017 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring Question Alan, do you have a copy of the Parker O-ring handbook? Best free resource out there for designing O-ring seals. ORD5700.pdf? Download it from the Parker website.Sean On February 5, 2017 6:32:51 PM MST, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi,am having trouble Googling an answer to this question.?? I have an O-ring groove in the bore of my light housing, sealingbetween the bore & the side of my acrylic lens as per attached diagram.On a piston O-ring groove it calls for an optimal 2% stretch & not more than 5%.I can't find any reference to what stretch if any should be, if any, for an o-ringin a bore groove. I did see that in a! rotaryapplication they don't advice thattheir should be any pressure on the rotating rod.Should I be designing so that the o-ring will have a 2% stretch around the lens?Thanks, Alan Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 5 22:14:09 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Dan Hryhorcoff via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 22:14:09 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring Question In-Reply-To: <1912905411.1538693.1486347192759@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1619033191.1531803.1486344771910.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <357afccb-5e60-425d-9b97-e86695e59876@email.android.com> <1104901799.1536564.1486345842603@mail.yahoo.com> <1480005709.1388386.1486346342942@mail.yahoo.com> <1912905411.1538693.1486347192759@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan Don?t worry about stretch or no stretch. What?s more important is the squeeze of the O-ring and the clearance between your two mating parts. As long as you get 15-20 % squeeze of the O-ring when assembled and the gap between the two parts your sealing isn?t so great that the pressure your operating at isn?t going to allow the O-ring to be extruded out, you?ll be fine. Normally, for an external O-ring groove the O-ring is stretched on with a bit of stretch when its in it?s groove and when an O-ring is used in an internal groove application, as yours is, it?s actually a little bit larger then the groove when it?s inserted in place to help it stays there while the mating part is inserted. For your application forget about stretch. Use a ring that?s to size if it stays in place good, or one size larger if you have a problem getting the lens in place without pinching the O-ring. Dan H. From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2017 9:13 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring Question Thanks Hank, I have 4 O-rings in my light design & had gone through the calculations before designing. However one of these O-rings is in the bore groove & I'm having a re-think about this one, but can't find any specific advice for this application. Alan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, February 6, 2017 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring Question Alan, If your glass is say 2 inces diameter then use a 2 inch o-ring with a groove design from the o-ring groove chart. You will also find a spec for the clearance between the glass and housing. On Sunday, February 5, 2017 6:52 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Sean, yes had a quick look through that, along with other material. Spent a couple of hours & still haven't come up with an answer to what seemed a simple question! Maybe I'll have to read through it slowly! Cheers Alan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, February 6, 2017 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring Question Alan, do you have a copy of the Parker O-ring handbook? Best free resource out there for designing O-ring seals. ORD5700.pdf Download it from the Parker website. Sean On February 5, 2017 6:32:51 PM MST, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi, am having trouble Googling an answer to this question. I have an O-ring groove in the bore of my light housing, sealing between the bore & the side of my acrylic lens as per attached diagram. On a piston O-ring groove it calls for an optimal 2% stretch & not more than 5%. I can't find any reference to what stretch if any should be, if any, for an o-ring in a bore groove. I did see that in a! rotary application they don't advice that their should be any pressure on the rotating rod. Should I be designing so that the o-ring will have a 2% stretch around the lens? Thanks, Alan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 5 22:32:32 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 16:32:32 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring Question In-Reply-To: References: <1619033191.1531803.1486344771910.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <357afccb-5e60-425d-9b97-e86695e59876@email.android.com> <1104901799.1536564.1486345842603@mail.yahoo.com> <1480005709.1388386.1486346342942@mail.yahoo.com> <1912905411.1538693.1486347192759@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <911482CA-C03C-4B2F-AC9E-AC4DE26C06EC@yahoo.com> Thanks Dan, just read through 170 pages of the Parker O-ring handbook & couldn't find that information. That makes sense. I can go for a coffee in peace now! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 6/02/2017, at 4:14 PM, Dan Hryhorcoff via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan > > Don?t worry about stretch or no stretch. What?s more important is the squeeze of the O-ring and the clearance between your two mating parts. > > As long as you get 15-20 % squeeze of the O-ring when assembled and the gap between the two parts your sealing isn?t so great that the pressure your operating at isn?t going to allow the O-ring to be extruded out, you?ll be fine. > > Normally, for an external O-ring groove the O-ring is stretched on with a bit of stretch when its in it?s groove and when an O-ring is used in an internal groove application, as yours is, it?s actually a little bit larger then the groove when it?s inserted in place to help it stays there while the mating part is inserted. > > For your application forget about stretch. Use a ring that?s to size if it stays in place good, or one size larger if you have a problem getting the lens in place without pinching the O-ring. > > Dan H. > > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2017 9:13 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring Question > > Thanks Hank, > I have 4 O-rings in my light design & had gone through the calculations > before designing. However one of these O-rings is in the bore groove & I'm > having a re-think about this one, but can't find any specific advice for > this application. > Alan > > > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, February 6, 2017 2:59 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring Question > > Alan, > If your glass is say 2 inces diameter then use a 2 inch o-ring with a groove design from the o-ring groove chart. You will also find a spec for the clearance between the glass and housing. > > > On Sunday, February 5, 2017 6:52 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Sean, > yes had a quick look through that, along with other material. > Spent a couple of hours & still haven't come up with an answer to > what seemed a simple question! > Maybe I'll have to read through it slowly! > Cheers Alan > > > From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, February 6, 2017 2:39 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring Question > > Alan, do you have a copy of the Parker O-ring handbook? Best free resource out there for designing O-ring seals. ORD5700.pdf Download it from the Parker website. > Sean > > > On February 5, 2017 6:32:51 PM MST, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi, > am having trouble Googling an answer to this question. > I have an O-ring groove in the bore of my light housing, sealing > between the bore & the side of my acrylic lens as per attached diagram. > On a piston O-ring groove it calls for an optimal 2% stretch & not more than 5%. > I can't find any reference to what stretch if any should be, if any, for an o-ring > in a bore groove. I did see that in a! rotary application they don't advice that > their should be any pressure on the rotating rod. > Should I be designing so that the o-ring will have a 2% stretch around the lens? > Thanks, Alan > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 5 23:56:39 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 23:56:39 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Message-ID: <1b8a7ba.2a2adbbc.45c95c07@aol.com> Hank, I get the following message: "This video is private. If the owner of this video has granted you access, please sign in." In a message dated 2/5/2017 7:04:08 P.M. Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Here is a super short video of my flange facing machine hard at work. When I mounted the dome originally, I fit it to the hull by hand. I decided to check my work and machine it with my flange facing machine, just to be sure. Turns out it was good, but it never hurts to check. I also did the aluminum seat ring and that turned out excellent. Hank On Sunday, February 5, 2017 5:54 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgtAkWcnFIE _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image2017-02-05at5.53PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18286 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 6 04:27:20 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 09:27:20 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting equipment In-Reply-To: <790898335.1053861.1486254065560@mail.yahoo.com> References: <643057745.956162.1486236909302@mail.yahoo.com> <1463052671.959196.1486237274983@mail.yahoo.com> <790898335.1053861.1486254065560@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sean, I borrowed this 0.5 ton gantry from a friend. Lifted all the heavy parts with it and I was able to lift half the sub with the chain, and the other half with a jack or engine hoist so I could move the entire boat around. Not a massive gantry, but did the job. I also made 2x roll around cradles to spin the hull around on. 1 had wheels on so I could move it all around. http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/publication2_files/Page334.htm http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/publication2_files/Page12078.htm On 5 February 2017 at 00:21, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > I think I paid 600 C for my winch. Do not buy a cheap Chinese winch. > They burn out real fast, the Waren winch is the way to go. > I even have a wireless remote for it. I never use the wireless though > when I am lifting in the shop. > Hank > > > On Saturday, February 4, 2017 4:00 PM, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > What's the lifting capacity and cost of one of those? > > Rick > > On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 9:41 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Sean, > The electric hoist can be a Warren Winch 12V . That is what I use with > one pulley to slow it down. I just have an AGM battery mounted on the top > by the winch with a battery charger. In the summer I put the winch back on > my Bob Cat trailer. > Hank > > > On Saturday, February 4, 2017 12:38 PM, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Sean, > I nice Gantry on wheels with an electric hoist is the biggest time saver > EVER Period. > Hank > > > On Saturday, February 4, 2017 12:21 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > A question for those of you building in your home shops, garages or yards: > What, if any, lifting and handling equipment did you buy or build for > manipulating your sub? I'm talking about A-frames, chain hoists, cranes, > block & tackle, roller frames / pipe rollers, engine lifts or other > contraptions to enable you to handle and manipulate the heavy pieces. For > those that completed a build, what would you want to have if you had to do > it again? > Sean > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 6 05:17:26 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 05:17:26 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting equipment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <15a12ed9c3d-7594-9ab6@webprd-a98.mail.aol.com> Rather than a roll around A-frame in my restricted work space, I have a fixed hoist built in pieces and assembled in the attic with vertical knee-braced support posts bolted to the floor and a ceiling hatch through which a chain fall can operate. The trailer goes outside. I lift the sub off and set it on a beefy open bottom pallet (wood) which I can then shift around easily with a $300 pallet jack from Harbor Freight. The whole deal cost just a few hundred bucks and does not compromise my floor space at all (beyond the obvious). Vance -----Original Message----- From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Feb 6, 2017 4:27 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting equipment Sean, I borrowed this 0.5 ton gantry from a friend. Lifted all the heavy parts with it and I was able to lift half the sub with the chain, and the other half with a jack or engine hoist so I could move the entire boat around. Not a massive gantry, but did the job. I also made 2x roll around cradles to spin the hull around on. 1 had wheels on so I could move it all around. http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/publication2_files/Page334.htm http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/publication2_files/Page12078.htm On 5 February 2017 at 00:21, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, I think I paid 600 C for my winch. Do not buy a cheap Chinese winch. They burn out real fast, the Waren winch is the way to go. I even have a wireless remote for it. I never use the wireless though when I am lifting in the shop. Hank On Saturday, February 4, 2017 4:00 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, What's the lifting capacity and cost of one of those? Rick On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 9:41 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean, The electric hoist can be a Warren Winch 12V . That is what I use with one pulley to slow it down. I just have an AGM battery mounted on the top by the winch with a battery charger. In the summer I put the winch back on my Bob Cat trailer. Hank On Saturday, February 4, 2017 12:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean, I nice Gantry on wheels with an electric hoist is the biggest time saver EVER Period. Hank On Saturday, February 4, 2017 12:21 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: A question for those of you building in your home shops, garages or yards: What, if any, lifting and handling equipment did you buy or build for manipulating your sub? I'm talking about A-frames, chain hoists, cranes, block & tackle, roller frames / pipe rollers, engine lifts or other contraptions to enable you to handle and manipulate the heavy pieces. For those that completed a build, what would you want to have if you had to do it again? Sean ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 6 08:13:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 13:13:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <1b8a7ba.2a2adbbc.45c95c07@aol.com> References: <1b8a7ba.2a2adbbc.45c95c07@aol.com> Message-ID: <1897677617.1650754.1486386824019@mail.yahoo.com> Got it, I made it public, it is a real short video.Hank On Sunday, February 5, 2017 9:57 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I get the following message: "This video is private.? If the owner of this video has granted you access, please sign in."?In a message dated 2/5/2017 7:04:08 P.M. Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Here is a super short video of my flange facing machine hard at work. ?When I mounted the dome originally, I fit it to the hull by hand. ?I decided to check my work and machine it with my flange facing machine, just to be sure. ?Turns out it ?was good, but it never ?hurts to check. ?I also did the aluminum seat ring and that turned out excellent. Hank On Sunday, February 5, 2017 5:54 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgtAkWcnFIE _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image2017-02-05at5.53PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18286 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 6 08:31:54 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 13:31:54 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <1897677617.1650754.1486386824019@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1b8a7ba.2a2adbbc.45c95c07@aol.com> <1897677617.1650754.1486386824019@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, how come your flange facing again? I thought you had done this bit on Gamma already? Is this for the escape pod? I thought it was already on? Maybe im confused with one of your other millions of subs.... James On 6 February 2017 at 13:13, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Got it, I made it public, it is a real short video. > Hank > > > On Sunday, February 5, 2017 9:57 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hank, > I get the following message: "This video is private. If the owner of this > video has granted you access, please sign in." > > In a message dated 2/5/2017 7:04:08 P.M. Central Standard Time, > personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > > Here is a super short video of my flange facing machine hard at work. > When I mounted the dome originally, I fit it to the hull by hand. I > decided to check my work and machine it with my flange facing machine, just > to be sure. Turns out it was good, but it never hurts to check. I also > did the aluminum seat ring and that turned out excellent. > Hank > > On Sunday, February 5, 2017 5:54 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgtAkWcnFIE > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image2017-02-05at5.53PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18286 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 6 10:01:02 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 09:01:02 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting equipment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sean, been running a bit behind on viewing Psub list. My shop is a metal building 24'x63' with a gable roof and a roll up door on one end. In the center section, which is 24'x 30', I welded a 10 ft, 10" ibeam under the ridge. On the this ibeam I have two 2 Ton Trollies I got from harbor freight http://www.harborfreight.com/2-Ton-Push-Beam-Trolley-60509.html that I use for fabrication work and to lift my sub on and off the sub trailer. I have been happy with these hoist but they are manual hoist. If the oil price continues to increase and my work picks up, I would like to replace these manual trolley hoist with similar capacity eclectic hoist. Cliff On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 1:20 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > A question for those of you building in your home shops, garages or yards: > > What, if any, lifting and handling equipment did you buy or build for > manipulating your sub? I'm talking about A-frames, chain hoists, cranes, > block & tackle, roller frames / pipe rollers, engine lifts or other > contraptions to enable you to handle and manipulate the heavy pieces. For > those that completed a build, what would you want to have if you had to do > it again? > > Sean > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 6 10:12:16 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 09:12:16 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring Question In-Reply-To: <1619033191.1531803.1486344771910@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1619033191.1531803.1486344771910.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1619033191.1531803.1486344771910@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan, the easiest way to get the perfect O-ring grove is to go to http://divapps.parker.com/divapps/seal/mobile/MaterialSelection/MobileinPHorm.aspx which is Parker's in PHorm software running as an online app. This site completely specs the gland and gland seat under just about any loading condition you can think of and prints out a nice report including a diagram of the grove with all the correct dimensions. It is lot easier than trying to digest the 170 page Parker O-ring book. On stretch for this application, I concur with Dan's comments. Cliff On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 7:32 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi, > am having trouble Googling an answer to this question. > I have an O-ring groove in the bore of my light housing, sealing > between the bore & the side of my acrylic lens as per attached diagram. > On a piston O-ring groove it calls for an optimal 2% stretch & not more > than 5%. > I can't find any reference to what stretch if any should be, if any, for > an o-ring > in a bore groove. I did see that in a rotary application they don't advice > that > their should be any pressure on the rotating rod. > Should I be designing so that the o-ring will have a 2% stretch around the > lens? > Thanks, Alan > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 6 10:24:23 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 15:24:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: <1b8a7ba.2a2adbbc.45c95c07@aol.com> <1897677617.1650754.1486386824019@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <408421823.1719603.1486394663338@mail.yahoo.com> James,I did not have the facing machine yet, when I did the dome. ?I did it by hand and it took many days. ?I just wanted to be sure it was good. ?Now I know for sure ;-)I have been doing wiring projects for a few days in Gamma and I am stiff from the awkward positions. ?So I told my wife " the next sub is going to be big enough to stand up in" ?she said "NEXT SUB with fear in her eye hahahahaha.Hank On Monday, February 6, 2017 6:32 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,how come your flange facing again?? I thought you had done this bit on Gamma already?? Is this for the escape pod? I thought it was already on?? Maybe im confused with one of your other millions of subs....?James On 6 February 2017 at 13:13, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Got it, I made it public, it is a real short video.Hank On Sunday, February 5, 2017 9:57 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I get the following message: "This video is private.? If the owner of this video has granted you access, please sign in."?In a message dated 2/5/2017 7:04:08 P.M. Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs. org writes: Here is a super short video of my flange facing machine hard at work.? When I mounted the dome originally, I fit it to the hull by hand.? I decided to check my work and machine it with my flange facing machine, just to be sure.? Turns out it ?was good, but it never ?hurts to check.? I also did the aluminum seat ring and that turned out excellent. Hank On Sunday, February 5, 2017 5:54 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=XgtAkWcnFIE ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image2017-02-05at5.53PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18286 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 6 14:23:57 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 11:23:57 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Solder connection Message-ID: <20170206112357.262053E@m0087797.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1338.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 25864 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1339.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 24652 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 6 15:37:10 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 09:37:10 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising In-Reply-To: <07c501d27eee$65838500$308a8f00$@nl> References: <20170203231300.25FD7CE@m0087792.ppops.net> <07c501d27eee$65838500$308a8f00$@nl> Message-ID: <0cbe01d280b8$ccc33a50$6649aef0$@gmail.com> Emile, That is a nice Anodiser doing quality stuff. You are lucky to have facilities like that. In New Zealand we do not have enough industry for supporting that. We are not much better than Fiji. But nice views and walking tracks!! Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of emile via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 5 February 2017 2:56 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising Brain, That is a pity . the process itself is not very expensive. My anodizer (http://ko-ar.nl/en/anodising/) charges some 50,- for a 24? domehatch ring. Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zaterdag 4 februari 2017 8:13 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising Alan, The cost of anodizing alone I could probably make 3 or 4 duplicates ! Especially here in Kalifornia ! They tack on an additional 9% environmental extortion fee, plus 7.5% sales tax ! It's starting to get expensive !! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 17:25:02 +1300 Brian, I would get it anodised to be on the safe side. You will have several o-rings sealing on to it not to mention the big one that will seal it to the hull. You could have seawater entrapped in the o-ring grooves corroding it while it's out of the water. Alan Sent from my iPad On 4/02/2017, at 3:45 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean, Salt water, but the aluminum (6061) that I have is completely isolated from any other metal, basically it is a 6" dia x 11/2" thick disk ( replaces my viewport) and I'm running aluminum penetrators thru the disk. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2017 18:01:31 -0700 Brian - are you operating in salt or fresh water? All of the vehicles I have worked on, for deployment in seawater, used 6061-T6 aluminum components, hard anodized black, and additionally protected with zinc anodes mounted to appropriately prepared (i.e. unanodized) surfaces. Sean On February 3, 2017 5:06:50 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, Now you've got me thinking that I might be able to get away with out anodizing my 6061 aluminum. The data that I've been looking at shows good corrosion resistance for the 6061. Hmm... I guess I could just try it out and see what happens ! Worst that could happen is I might have to replace the parts down the line. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 23:07:54 +0000 (UTC) I am looking at free machining aluminium rod as one of the options for my light housing. It is sold as 2011 T3 to T6. Is this suitable for hard anodizing? It is no good for welding. Alan _____ From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Brian, While Emile has a good anodiser there are many lousy ones out there. Generally anodising will add thickness. Half goes into the metal and half goes on the outside. Depending on the clearance or fit of your threads depends whether you have a problem We anodise but have to allow for clearance.. The Anodisers I have available are very commercial and we have had issues affecting O?ring sealing so pick your anodiser carefully. On a class 3 thread fit you cannot get complacent as 50 microns thickness is still 0.002? so a thread will have a much greater effect While 50 microns is only 25 microns increase it means! 100 microns on clearance diameter if both male and female are anodised.. There are some new processes which claim will not add thickness such as diamondysing but that process is added ontop of normal anodising. I would ask Emile what actual process his anodiser uses. We would need to go to an aircraft certified anodiser. We do our own hard anodising. Pulse anodising will produce better results. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of emile via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 4 February 2017 7:26 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Brian, A good Anodizer can keep it the same size . With 30-50 Micron thickness there can be some Microns ?growth? Not a issue for O-rings and threads. My anodize offers a Teflon dip after anodizing to make it more water repellant. Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 3 februari 2017 18:05 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Cliff, Will I have to worry about threads or o ring tolerances after the process? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 10:45:26 -0600 Brian, I am not a corrosion expert but have found that hard anozizing (Mil-A-8625 type III) seems to work fine for my parts. My experience is that PSUB stuff gets banged around a lot so addeded thinckness and hardness that comes from Mil-A-8625 type III seems to work out better. Most of my marine experience has been in fresh water lakes so we really need to get someone with a lot of saltwater experience to chime in. Also most psubbers don't leave their boats in the water all the time and rinse off the boat after use. This also tends to mitigate corrosion. Cliff On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, Is the Mil-A-8625 type III class 2 black anodizing sufficient for exposure to sea water? Using 6061 aluminum. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:30:18 -0600 Sounds like you are having fun coming up to speed on PLCs. Get your wife to take the video of your hand waving. We would all appreciate the entailment value! It a lot of fun to bench test components being operated by PLC and see them come to life based on your code. As to compass heading, roll, pitch and yaw sensor, I use the Ocean-server http://www.ocean-server.com/compass.html OS5000-S Solid State tilt compensagted 3 axes digital compass, This is a RS-232 serial device. You have to write som! e PLC ladder logic code to parse the ASCII string sent to the PLC to extract the data, I packaged mine in a small 1-atm aluminum anadoized pod about the size of a tennis ball that I have mounted outside the steel pressure hull behind the pilot. Even though the DoMore CPU you are using has several serial input ports that could be used for this sensor, I ended up getted a dedicated coprocessor module that plugs into one of the AutomationDirect PLC bases that enables me to write the parsing code in BASIC and enables me to dedicate the coprocessor to this sensor. It took me a while to come up to speed on RS-232 comuncations but I now have this working petty much bullet proof. The coprocedssor then sends the heading, pitch, roll and yaw values to the PLC cpu to be used any way you want them. Currently, I am only using this data on my HMI. Cliff On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 12:52 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, Its been slow going as I am finishing building my home. Should be finished in 45 days. But I have been making progress as I learn PLC coding and ladder logic in the evenings. Currently I am working thru the flight Joy Stick switch controls combined with a 4 position joystick base to control the (2) forward canard wings, (2) vertical thrusters (2) horizontal thrusters, and (2) vectored rear thrusters to have a flight experience. I spend many hours in the evening when my wife is not looking waving my hands thru the air simulating flight and then coding the switches needed to make the mane! uver. I'm sure it would be entertaining to record a video. I am curious, are you using any gyroscopic sensors for pitch and roll? I'm thinking I need to have some build into the coding so as to limit my human abilities as safety overrides. The next step is to get a bench setup with the joystick and canard wings to run tests on the coding and for flight training purposes. Just need to finish the house first. Mean while I'll be waving my hands in the air for a while. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: David, hope that you have made some progress on the design work for SeaQuester. When I first installed life support on the R300, I had sensors distributed all over the boat. What I have move to is packaging all the Life Support related sensors in a single electrical box I call the AMOC module. AMOC is an acronym for Air Management and Oxygen Control. This made it easier to maintain the system and made it easy to bench test. I feed HP O2 from an external tank to! this box. It in turn breaks the pressure and emits the O2 to keep the mole percent balanced. The PLC interfaces with the AMOC unit to monitor and control the air in the cabin. If you are interested, send me your email address to cliffordredus at sbcglobal.net and I will send you the DCI for the drawings associated with the AMOC unit and the drawings. The axial flow scrubber I use is the same one Alec used for Snoopy. It has worked great. The PLC ladder logic code around the life support system is pretty straight forward. What I like about the system is that it automatically compensates for different sized humans in the boat but yet retains a manual mode in the event both the main and auxiliary power are lost. The assembly drawing for the AMOC unit details all the sensors as well as all the Swagelok fittings and circular disconnect. This unit should work well with the AutomationDirect DoM! ore CPU you have. Cliff On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 7:50 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, Thanks for answering the question I was just going to ask. Did you build any special case to mount for replacement? I need to back and see the line of code you used so I can use it in my DoMore PLC Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 2:46 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have had good performance from this company but with their K30 sensor. $85 and does give 0-5v analog output signal. It span is 0-10,000 ppm (0-2%). Cliff Sent from my iPad On Feb 2, 2017, at 2:37 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on these units from COZIR. http://www.co2meter.com/products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensor They're only about $70US, have bui! lt in self calibration, super reliable, and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The big rub is that it isn't analog output, but serial. You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the scrubber, other sensors, etc. I have an identical system built for the health department currently running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across the city in the elements. They are that good. I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so I've been thinking about life support lately. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _____ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 6 15:44:24 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 12:44:24 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising Message-ID: <20170206124424.262AAFC@m0087796.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 6 16:02:04 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 10:02:04 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring Question In-Reply-To: References: <1619033191.1531803.1486344771910.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1619033191.1531803.1486344771910@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Cliff, good link. It was just that 1 O-ring in the bore that I wasn't sure of the stretch required. I have re-designed my light housing ( will post it later) & are pretty happy with it. The big thing will be how many Watts I can run it at without it overheating. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7/02/2017, at 4:12 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, the easiest way to get the perfect O-ring grove is to go to http://divapps.parker.com/divapps/seal/mobile/MaterialSelection/MobileinPHorm.aspx which is Parker's in PHorm software running as an online app. This site completely specs the gland and gland seat under just about any loading condition you can think of and prints out a nice report including a diagram of the grove with all the correct dimensions. It is lot easier than trying to digest the 170 page Parker O-ring book. On stretch for this application, I concur with Dan's comments. > > Cliff > >> On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 7:32 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hi, >> am having trouble Googling an answer to this question. >> I have an O-ring groove in the bore of my light housing, sealing >> between the bore & the side of my acrylic lens as per attached diagram. >> On a piston O-ring groove it calls for an optimal 2% stretch & not more than 5%. >> I can't find any reference to what stretch if any should be, if any, for an o-ring >> in a bore groove. I did see that in a rotary application they don't advice that >> their should be any pressure on the rotating rod. >> Should I be designing so that the o-ring will have a 2% stretch around the lens? >> Thanks, Alan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 6 16:53:46 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 22:53:46 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <408421823.1719603.1486394663338@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1b8a7ba.2a2adbbc.45c95c07@aol.com> <1897677617.1650754.1486386824019@mail.yahoo.com> <408421823.1719603.1486394663338@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <09c701d280c3$7de9fb70$79bdf250$@nl> Hank, When you position a Mantis upright , you can (nearly) stand up in it ;-) Still fits in the living room.. Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 6 februari 2017 16:24 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: James, I did not have the facing machine yet, when I did the dome. I did it by hand and it took many days. I just wanted to be sure it was good. Now I know for sure ;-) I have been doing wiring projects for a few days in Gamma and I am stiff from the awkward positions. So I told my wife " the next sub is going to be big enough to stand up in" she said "NEXT SUB with fear in her eye hahahahaha. Hank On Monday, February 6, 2017 6:32 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, how come your flange facing again? I thought you had done this bit on Gamma already? Is this for the escape pod? I thought it was already on? Maybe im confused with one of your other millions of subs.... James On 6 February 2017 at 13:13, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Got it, I made it public, it is a real short video. Hank On Sunday, February 5, 2017 9:57 PM, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hank, I get the following message: "This video is private. If the owner of this video has granted you access, please sign in." In a message dated 2/5/2017 7:04:08 P.M. Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs. org writes: Here is a super short video of my flange facing machine hard at work. When I mounted the dome originally, I fit it to the hull by hand. I decided to check my work and machine it with my flange facing machine, just to be sure. Turns out it was good, but it never hurts to check. I also did the aluminum seat ring and that turned out excellent. Hank On Sunday, February 5, 2017 5:54 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=XgtAkWcnFIE ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18286 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 6 17:12:09 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 22:12:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <09c701d280c3$7de9fb70$79bdf250$@nl> References: <1b8a7ba.2a2adbbc.45c95c07@aol.com> <1897677617.1650754.1486386824019@mail.yahoo.com> <408421823.1719603.1486394663338@mail.yahoo.com> <09c701d280c3$7de9fb70$79bdf250$@nl> Message-ID: <1639465765.2036711.1486419129561@mail.yahoo.com> Emile,Oh well then I better get one lol. ?Did they sell?Hank On Monday, February 6, 2017 2:53 PM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv8366621349 #yiv8366621349 -- _filtered #yiv8366621349 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv8366621349 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv8366621349 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv8366621349 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv8366621349 #yiv8366621349 p.yiv8366621349MsoNormal, #yiv8366621349 li.yiv8366621349MsoNormal, #yiv8366621349 div.yiv8366621349MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv8366621349 a:link, #yiv8366621349 span.yiv8366621349MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv8366621349 a:visited, #yiv8366621349 span.yiv8366621349MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv8366621349 span.yiv8366621349hoenzb {}#yiv8366621349 span.yiv8366621349E-mailStijl18 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv8366621349 .yiv8366621349MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv8366621349 {margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}#yiv8366621349 div.yiv8366621349WordSection1 {}#yiv8366621349 Hank, ?When you position a Mantis upright , you can (nearly) stand up in it ;-) ??Still fits in the living room.. ?Emile ?Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 6 februari 2017 16:24 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: ?James,I did not have the facing machine yet, when I did the dome. ?I did it by hand and it took many days. ?I just wanted to be sure it was good. ?Now I know for sure ;-)I have been doing wiring projects for a few days in Gamma and I am stiff from the awkward positions. ?So I told my wife " the next sub is going to be big enough to stand up in" ?she said "NEXT SUB with fear in her eye hahahahaha.Hank ?On Monday, February 6, 2017 6:32 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Hank,how come your flange facing again?? I thought you had done this bit on Gamma already?? Is this for the escape pod? I thought it was already on?? Maybe im confused with one of your other millions of subs....?James ?On 6 February 2017 at 13:13, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Got it, I made it public, it is a real short video.Hank ?On Sunday, February 5, 2017 9:57 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Hank,I get the following message: "This video is private.? If the owner of this video has granted you access, please sign in."?In a message dated 2/5/2017 7:04:08 P.M. Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs. org writes: Here is a super short video of my flange facing machine hard at work.? When I mounted the dome originally, I fit it to the hull by hand.? I decided to check my work and machine it with my flange facing machine, just to be sure.? Turns out it ?was good, but it never ?hurts to check.? I also did the aluminum seat ring and that turned out excellent.HankOn Sunday, February 5, 2017 5:54 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: ?https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=XgtAkWcnFIE ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ?______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18286 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 6 17:28:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Frankie Bowman via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 17:28:43 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New guy question???? Message-ID: Hey does anyone know the email for the owner of Snoopy I need advice for my k250 build -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 6 17:52:32 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 17:52:32 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New guy question???? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: His name is Douglas Suhr. His email is spiritofcalypso at gmail.com On 2/6/17, Frankie Bowman via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hey does anyone know the email for the owner of Snoopy I need advice for my > k250 build > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 7 05:43:54 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 10:43:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Light References: <1524206987.2571465.1486464234437.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1524206987.2571465.1486464234437@mail.yahoo.com> Rick, Cliff & anyone else that's interested.Attached?is the latest?version of my 80W LED light.In one drawing it shows a larger diameter top retaining ring.This is to enable mounting in to a recess. By using longer bolts thelight can be mounted on a plate at the back.What I like about this design is I only have to do 2 small threads for screwsthat hold in the LED.?This will also help avoid bolts seizing in threads.?? I am machining a grooved protrusion in the base to key in the rubber compoundfor sealing the wires. Inside the base I will be epoxying the wires.I have gone to an acrylic lens that will be 10mm from the emitter. This is becausethe small flip chip LEDs I am using are cooler out the front. I can back off the powerif 80W is too much for such a small unit.These could be used as navigation lights with lower power. It should be good for over 2000ft.Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Light 80W.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 174963 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 7 10:04:01 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 09:04:01 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Light In-Reply-To: <1524206987.2571465.1486464234437@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1524206987.2571465.1486464234437.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1524206987.2571465.1486464234437@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan, looks like you are making great progress on light. A couple of comments: 1) If you plan to anodize, then I would chamfer the outside edges (85mm) to mitigate wear 2) I would use a small Subconn bulkhead connector rather than DIY penetrator. These OTS fittings are cheap. 3) double o-ring seals are probably overkill 4) LED panels get very hot. I worry about the plastic wire cover melting 5) Not showing any clearance for socket head screw heads 6) Not showing any clearance between the acrylic lens and housing 6) You would dramatically improve heat transfer away from unit if you made the fins thinner. As designed not sure these fins and shell will dissipate 80W of heat when in the air. 7) As drawn I don't see any space for wire movement for makeup after you solder the leads and start to assembly the light 8) Don't see any RTD or thermistor for measuring temperature to enable the driver circuit to protect against overheating when unit is inadvertently turned on out of the water. Cliff On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 4:43 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, Cliff & anyone else that's interested. > Attached is the latest version of my 80W LED light. > In one drawing it shows a larger diameter top retaining ring. > This is to enable mounting in to a recess. By using longer bolts the > light can be mounted on a plate at the back. > What I like about this design is I only have to do 2 small threads for > screws > that hold in the LED. This will also help avoid bolts seizing in threads. > I am machining a grooved protrusion in the base to key in the rubber > compound > for sealing the wires. Inside the base I will be epoxying the wires. > I have gone to an acrylic lens that will be 10mm from the emitter. This is > because > the small flip chip LEDs I am using are cooler out the front. I can back > off the power > if 80W is too much for such a small unit. > These could be used as navigation lights with lower power. > It should be good for over 2000ft. > Alan > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 7 12:25:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 17:25:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Light In-Reply-To: References: <1524206987.2571465.1486464234437.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1524206987.2571465.1486464234437@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1292457470.2592028.1486488349618@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I would ditch the two side o-rings just for simple machining. ?Also you give the acrylic a wee bit more clearance for?expansion then. And why are you not oil filling them? ?seems so simple to just oil fill them.Hank On Tuesday, February 7, 2017 8:04 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, looks like you are making great progress on light.? A couple of comments:1) If you plan to anodize, then I would chamfer the outside edges (85mm) to mitigate wear2) I would use a small Subconn bulkhead connector rather than DIY penetrator.? These OTS fittings are cheap.3) double o-ring seals are probably overkill4) LED panels get very hot.? I worry about the plastic wire cover melting5) Not showing any clearance for socket head screw heads6) Not showing any clearance between the acrylic lens and housing6) You would dramatically improve heat transfer away from unit if you made the fins thinner.? As designed not sure these fins and shell will dissipate 80W of heat when in the air.7) As drawn I don't see any space for wire movement for makeup?after you solder the leads and start to assembly the light8) Don't see any RTD or thermistor for measuring temperature to enable the driver circuit to protect against overheating when unit is inadvertently turned on out of the water. Cliff On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 4:43 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, Cliff & anyone else that's interested.Attached?is the latest?version of my 80W LED light.In one drawing it shows a larger diameter top retaining ring.This is to enable mounting in to a recess. By using longer bolts thelight can be mounted on a plate at the back.What I like about this design is I only have to do 2 small threads for screwsthat hold in the LED.?This will also help avoid bolts seizing in threads.?? I am machining a grooved protrusion in the base to key in the rubber compoundfor sealing the wires. Inside the base I will be epoxying the wires.I have gone to an acrylic lens that will be 10mm from the emitter. This is becausethe small flip chip LEDs I am using are cooler out the front. I can back off the powerif 80W is too much for such a small unit.These could be used as navigation lights with lower power. It should be good for over 2000ft.Alan ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 7 12:48:13 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 06:48:13 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Light In-Reply-To: References: <1524206987.2571465.1486464234437.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1524206987.2571465.1486464234437@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5E618AFB-69D1-4735-9D4E-C4498B3D07F6@yahoo.com> Thanks Cliff. Yes, no chamfer or fillets on the drawing; it was to give a general idea of design. However hadn't thought about filleting for anodising. From a machining perspective, I am not sure how thin & deep I can get the grooves for the fins. This will be trial & error. Good point about the thermister. I could probably fit one under the plastic wire cover. BTW the wire covers fit the LEDs & are supplied by the manufacturer, so should take the heat. I have a friend on board whose day job is running up to 800,000 LEDs at a time on advertising hoardings. He also did electronics on nuclear subs. He keeps telling me I run the LEDs too hot & is analysing my LEDs to find the right driving current. So this may help with the temperature. Still finding out here. With regard to the bulkhead; I want to make a mould for forming the elastomer around the wires, so the process may be quick & more reliable than a bulkhead with O-ring fitting. Definitely Cheaper. I went with the double O-rings after reading the "Prevco" underwater housing literature. https://prevco.com/products/subsea-housings/seal-configuration/face-and-piston-seals A double seal seems standard & isn't much more of an expense. Also if salt water gets in, it can generate hydrogen through electrolysis & cause a build up of pressure inside the housing. Remember that part of yours I had to dive for :) There are clearances. Have .125mm between the lens & housing & between the base & housing. I will be machining this so even though I say .125 it will be what I consider a good fit. I am getting the LEDs with pig tails attached & will feed my main wire up the wiring holes, attach to the pig tails, then pull down in to the wiring gland when I attach the LED to the base. Thanks again for the comments. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 8/02/2017, at 4:04 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, looks like you are making great progress on light. A couple of comments: > 1) If you plan to anodize, then I would chamfer the outside edges (85mm) to mitigate wear > 2) I would use a small Subconn bulkhead connector rather than DIY penetrator. These OTS fittings are cheap. > 3) double o-ring seals are probably overkill > 4) LED panels get very hot. I worry about the plastic wire cover melting > 5) Not showing any clearance for socket head screw heads > 6) Not showing any clearance between the acrylic lens and housing > 6) You would dramatically improve heat transfer away from unit if you made the fins thinner. As designed not sure these fins and shell will dissipate 80W of heat when in the air. > 7) As drawn I don't see any space for wire movement for makeup after you solder the leads and start to assembly the light > 8) Don't see any RTD or thermistor for measuring temperature to enable the driver circuit to protect against overheating when unit is inadvertently turned on out of the water. > > Cliff > >> On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 4:43 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Rick, Cliff & anyone else that's interested. >> Attached is the latest version of my 80W LED light. >> In one drawing it shows a larger diameter top retaining ring. >> This is to enable mounting in to a recess. By using longer bolts the >> light can be mounted on a plate at the back. >> What I like about this design is I only have to do 2 small threads for screws >> that hold in the LED. This will also help avoid bolts seizing in threads. >> I am machining a grooved protrusion in the base to key in the rubber compound >> for sealing the wires. Inside the base I will be epoxying the wires. >> I have gone to an acrylic lens that will be 10mm from the emitter. This is because >> the small flip chip LEDs I am using are cooler out the front. I can back off the power >> if 80W is too much for such a small unit. >> These could be used as navigation lights with lower power. >> It should be good for over 2000ft. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 7 12:57:31 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 06:57:31 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Light In-Reply-To: <1292457470.2592028.1486488349618@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1524206987.2571465.1486464234437.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1524206987.2571465.1486464234437@mail.yahoo.com> <1292457470.2592028.1486488349618@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48BB6614-E72C-43A7-AD93-40C184CC92C5@yahoo.com> Hank, I had been sold on oil filling, but because these LEDs are so small & don't put heat out the front, I can have a small diameter acrylic lens close to the emitter. With the smaller lens I get greater depth capability for a given lens thickness. Over 2000ft with this set up. So with 2 extra O-rings & a good penetrator design I can avoid the messy oil & tubing. I had also wondered wether the oil would discolour in time with the heat. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 8/02/2017, at 6:25 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I would ditch the two side o-rings just for simple machining. Also you give the acrylic a wee bit more clearance for expansion then. > > And why are you not oil filling them? seems so simple to just oil fill them. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, February 7, 2017 8:04 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, looks like you are making great progress on light. A couple of comments: > 1) If you plan to anodize, then I would chamfer the outside edges (85mm) to mitigate wear > 2) I would use a small Subconn bulkhead connector rather than DIY penetrator. These OTS fittings are cheap. > 3) double o-ring seals are probably overkill > 4) LED panels get very hot. I worry about the plastic wire cover melting > 5) Not showing any clearance for socket head screw heads > 6) Not showing any clearance between the acrylic lens and housing > 6) You would dramatically improve heat transfer away from unit if you made the fins thinner. As designed not sure these fins and shell will dissipate 80W of heat when in the air. > 7) As drawn I don't see any space for wire movement for makeup after you solder the leads and start to assembly the light > 8) Don't see any RTD or thermistor for measuring temperature to enable the driver circuit to protect against overheating when unit is inadvertently turned on out of the water. > > Cliff > > On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 4:43 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Rick, Cliff & anyone else that's interested. > Attached is the latest version of my 80W LED light. > In one drawing it shows a larger diameter top retaining ring. > This is to enable mounting in to a recess. By using longer bolts the > light can be mounted on a plate at the back. > What I like about this design is I only have to do 2 small threads for screws > that hold in the LED. This will also help avoid bolts seizing in threads. > I am machining a grooved protrusion in the base to key in the rubber compound > for sealing the wires. Inside the base I will be epoxying the wires. > I have gone to an acrylic lens that will be 10mm from the emitter. This is because > the small flip chip LEDs I am using are cooler out the front. I can back off the power > if 80W is too much for such a small unit. > These could be used as navigation lights with lower power. > It should be good for over 2000ft. > Alan > > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 7 17:43:22 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 14:43:22 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising Message-ID: <20170207144322.25F0C66@m0086238.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 7 22:15:45 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 22:15:45 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising In-Reply-To: <20170207144322.25F0C66@m0086238.ppops.net> References: <20170207144322.25F0C66@m0086238.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi Brian, I found a place in PA that was literally one tenth the price I was quoted locally, and have used them several times. Here's the website: mzanodizing.com Best, Alec On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 5:43 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Just got a price for anodizing in Idaho -- one third the cost > !!! Going to visit my daughter there, so may not have to pay for > shipping !! > > > > Brian > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising > Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 12:44:24 -0800 > > I'm seriously thinking about going out of state for anodizing. Probably > cheaper including shipping. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising > Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 09:37:10 +1300 > > Emile, > That is a nice Anodiser doing quality stuff. You are lucky to have > facilities like that. In New Zealand we do not have enough industry for > supporting that. We are not much better than Fiji. But nice views and > walking tracks!! > > Hugh > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *emile via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Sunday, 5 February 2017 2:56 AM > *To:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising > > Brain, > > That is a pity . the process itself is not very expensive. > My anodizer (http://ko-ar.nl/en/anodising/) charges some 50,- for a 24? > domehatch ring. > > > Emile > > *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > *Verzonden:* zaterdag 4 februari 2017 8:13 > *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising > > Alan, > The cost of anodizing alone I could probably make 3 or 4 > duplicates ! Especially here in Kalifornia ! They tack on an additional > 9% environmental extortion fee, plus 7.5% sales tax ! It's starting to > get expensive !! > > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising > Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 17:25:02 +1300 > Brian, > I would get it anodised to be on the safe side. You will have several > o-rings > sealing on to it not to mention the big one that will seal it to the hull. > You > could have seawater entrapped in the o-ring grooves corroding it while it's > out of the water. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 4/02/2017, at 3:45 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Sean, Salt water, but the aluminum (6061) that I have is completely > isolated from any other metal, basically it is a 6" dia x 11/2" thick disk > ( replaces my viewport) and I'm running aluminum penetrators thru the > disk. > > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising > Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2017 18:01:31 -0700 > Brian - are you operating in salt or fresh water? All of the vehicles I > have worked on, for deployment in seawater, used 6061-T6 aluminum > components, hard anodized black, and additionally protected with zinc > anodes mounted to appropriately prepared (i.e. unanodized) surfaces. > > Sean > On February 3, 2017 5:06:50 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alan, > Now you've got me thinking that I might be able to get away > with out anodizing my 6061 aluminum. The data that I've been looking at > shows good corrosion resistance for the 6061. Hmm... I guess I could just > try it out and see what happens ! Worst that could happen is I might have > to replace the parts down the line. > > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 23:07:54 +0000 (UTC) > > I am looking at free machining aluminium rod as one of the options for my > light housing. > > It is sold as 2011 T3 to T6. Is this suitable for hard anodizing? > > It is no good for welding. > > Alan > ------------------------------ > *From:* Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> *Sent:* Saturday, February 4, 2017 10:51 > AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance > > Brian, > While Emile has a good anodiser there are many lousy ones out there. > Generally anodising will add thickness. Half goes into the metal and half > goes on the outside. Depending on the clearance or fit of your threads > depends whether you have a problem We anodise but have to allow for > clearance.. The Anodisers I have available are very commercial and we have > had issues affecting O?ring sealing so pick your anodiser carefully. On a > class 3 thread fit you cannot get complacent as 50 microns thickness is > still 0.002? so a thread will have a much greater effect While 50 microns > is only 25 microns increase it means! 100 microns on clearance diameter if > both male and female are anodised.. There are some new processes which > claim will not add thickness such as diamondysing but that process is added > ontop of normal anodising. I would ask Emile what actual process his > anodiser uses. We would need to go to an aircraft certified anodiser. We > do our own hard anodising. Pulse anodising will produce better results. > Hugh > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org ] *On Behalf > Of *emile via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Saturday, 4 February 2017 7:26 AM > *To:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance > > Brian, > > A good Anodizer can keep it the same size . With 30-50 Micron thickness > there can be some Microns ?growth? > Not a issue for O-rings and threads. > My anodize offers a Teflon dip after anodizing to make it more water > repellant. > > Emile > > *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > *Verzonden:* vrijdag 3 februari 2017 18:05 > *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance > > Cliff, Will I have to worry about threads or o ring > tolerances after the process? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 10:45:26 -0600 > Brian, I am not a corrosion expert but have found that hard anozizing > (Mil-A-8625 type III) seems to work fine for my parts. My experience is > that PSUB stuff gets banged around a lot so addeded thinckness and hardness > that comes from Mil-A-8625 type III seems to work out better. Most of my > marine experience has been in fresh water lakes so we really need to get > someone with a lot of saltwater experience to chime in. Also most psubbers > don't leave their boats in the water all the time and rinse off the boat > after use. This also tends to mitigate corrosion. > > Cliff > > On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, Is the Mil-A-8625 type III class 2 black anodizing sufficient > for exposure to sea water? Using 6061 aluminum. > > Brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:30:18 -0600 > Sounds like you are having fun coming up to speed on PLCs. Get your wife > to take the video of your hand waving. We would all appreciate the > entailment value! It a lot of fun to bench test components being operated > by PLC and see them come to life based on your code. As to compass > heading, roll, pitch and yaw sensor, I use the Ocean-server > http://www.ocean-server.com/compass.html OS5000-S Solid State tilt > compensagted 3 axes digital compass, This is a RS-232 serial device. You > have to write som! e PLC ladder logic code to parse the ASCII string sent > to the PLC to extract the data, I packaged mine in a small 1-atm aluminum > anadoized pod about the size of a tennis ball that I have mounted outside > the steel pressure hull behind the pilot. Even though the DoMore CPU you > are using has several serial input ports that could be used for this > sensor, I ended up getted a dedicated coprocessor module that plugs into > one of the AutomationDirect PLC bases that enables me to write the parsing > code in BASIC and enables me to dedicate the coprocessor to this sensor. > It took me a while to come up to speed on RS-232 comuncations but I now > have this working petty much bullet proof. The coprocedssor then sends the > heading, pitch, roll and yaw values to the PLC cpu to be used any way you > want them. Currently, I am only using this data on my HMI. > > Cliff > > On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 12:52 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Cliff, > Its been slow going as I am finishing building my home. Should be finished > in 45 days. But I have been making progress as I learn PLC coding and > ladder logic in the evenings. Currently I am working thru the flight Joy > Stick switch controls combined with a 4 position joystick base to control > the (2) forward canard wings, (2) vertical thrusters (2) horizontal > thrusters, and (2) vectored rear thrusters to have a flight experience. I > spend many hours in the evening when my wife is not looking waving my hands > thru the air simulating flight and then coding the switches needed to make > the mane! uver. I'm sure it would be entertaining to record a video. I am > curious, are you using any gyroscopic sensors for pitch and roll? I'm > thinking I need to have some build into the coding so as to limit my human > abilities as safety overrides. > > The next step is to get a bench setup with the joystick and canard wings > to run tests on the coding and for flight training purposes. Just need to > finish the house first. Mean while I'll be waving my hands in the air for a > while. > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, hope that you have made some progress on the design work for > SeaQuester. When I first installed life support on the R300, I had sensors > distributed all over the boat. What I have move to is packaging all the > Life Support related sensors in a single electrical box I call the AMOC > module. AMOC is an acronym for Air Management and Oxygen Control. This > made it easier to maintain the system and made it easy to bench test. I > feed HP O2 from an external tank to! this box. It in turn breaks the > pressure and emits the O2 to keep the mole percent balanced. The PLC > interfaces with the AMOC unit to monitor and control the air in the cabin. > If you are interested, send me your email address to > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.net and I will send you the DCI for the drawings > associated with the AMOC unit and the drawings. The axial flow scrubber I > use is the same one Alec used for Snoopy. It has worked great. The PLC > ladder logic code around the life support system is pretty straight > forward. What I like about the system is that it automatically compensates > for different sized humans in the boat but yet retains a manual mode in the > event both the main and auxiliary power are lost. The assembly drawing for > the AMOC unit details all the sensors as well as all the Swagelok fittings > and circular disconnect. This unit should work well with the > AutomationDirect DoM! ore CPU you have. > > Cliff > > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 7:50 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, Thanks for answering the question I was just going to ask. Did you > build any special case to mount for replacement? I need to back and see the > line of code you used so I can use it in my DoMore PLC > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 2:46 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I have had good performance from this company but with their K30 sensor. > $85 and does give 0-5v analog output signal. It span is 0-10,000 ppm > (0-2%). > > Cliff > > Sent from my iPad > > On Feb 2, 2017, at 2:37 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I > was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on > these units from COZIR. > http://www.co2meter.com/products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensor > They're only about $70US, have bui! lt in self calibration, super > reliable, and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The big > rub is that it isn't analog output, but serial. > You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy > enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, > trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the scrubber, > other sensors, etc. > I have an identical system built for the health department currently > running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across the > city in the elements. They are that good. > > I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so I've > been thinking about life support lately. > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/ > mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ------------------------------ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 8 01:23:54 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 01:23:54 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Light In-Reply-To: <1524206987.2571465.1486464234437@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1524206987.2571465.1486464234437.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1524206987.2571465.1486464234437@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7FB9B072-E5EF-4226-A29E-67356A3C948D@snyderemail.com> Great job! > On Feb 7, 2017, at 5:43 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Rick, Cliff & anyone else that's interested. > Attached is the latest version of my 80W LED light. > In one drawing it shows a larger diameter top retaining ring. > This is to enable mounting in to a recess. By using longer bolts the > light can be mounted on a plate at the back. > What I like about this design is I only have to do 2 small threads for screws > that hold in the LED. This will also help avoid bolts seizing in threads. > I am machining a grooved protrusion in the base to key in the rubber compound > for sealing the wires. Inside the base I will be epoxying the wires. > I have gone to an acrylic lens that will be 10mm from the emitter. This is because > the small flip chip LEDs I am using are cooler out the front. I can back off the power > if 80W is too much for such a small unit. > These could be used as navigation lights with lower power. > It should be good for over 2000ft. > Alan > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 8 01:53:02 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 22:53:02 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising Message-ID: <20170207225302.2633FEC@m0087796.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 8 06:57:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 12:57:43 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <1639465765.2036711.1486419129561@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1b8a7ba.2a2adbbc.45c95c07@aol.com> <1897677617.1650754.1486386824019@mail.yahoo.com> <408421823.1719603.1486394663338@mail.yahoo.com> <09c701d280c3$7de9fb70$79bdf250$@nl> <1639465765.2036711.1486419129561@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0b1801d28202$8e9f8490$abde8db0$@nl> Hi Hank, They are both sold yesterday. The new owner wants to overhaul one to make it operational and use the other one for spares and/or display. He will probably join the psubs mail list and will tell more about it. Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 6 februari 2017 23:12 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Emile, Oh well then I better get one lol. Did they sell? Hank On Monday, February 6, 2017 2:53 PM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, When you position a Mantis upright , you can (nearly) stand up in it ;-) Still fits in the living room.. Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 6 februari 2017 16:24 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: James, I did not have the facing machine yet, when I did the dome. I did it by hand and it took many days. I just wanted to be sure it was good. Now I know for sure ;-) I have been doing wiring projects for a few days in Gamma and I am stiff from the awkward positions. So I told my wife " the next sub is going to be big enough to stand up in" she said "NEXT SUB with fear in her eye hahahahaha. Hank On Monday, February 6, 2017 6:32 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, how come your flange facing again? I thought you had done this bit on Gamma already? Is this for the escape pod? I thought it was already on? Maybe im confused with one of your other millions of subs.... James On 6 February 2017 at 13:13, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Got it, I made it public, it is a real short video. Hank On Sunday, February 5, 2017 9:57 PM, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hank, I get the following message: "This video is private. If the owner of this video has granted you access, please sign in." In a message dated 2/5/2017 7:04:08 P.M. Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs. org writes: Here is a super short video of my flange facing machine hard at work. When I mounted the dome originally, I fit it to the hull by hand. I decided to check my work and machine it with my flange facing machine, just to be sure. Turns out it was good, but it never hurts to check. I also did the aluminum seat ring and that turned out excellent. Hank On Sunday, February 5, 2017 5:54 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=XgtAkWcnFIE ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18286 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 8 07:22:20 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 13:22:20 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Europe pressure test Message-ID: <0b1e01d28205$feaca3a0$fc05eae0$@nl> Hi, I can purchase a pressure vessel that is suitable for submersible pressure tests. -Diameter : 2,16 meter (85") -Length: 4 meter (157") -test pressure 30 Bar / 300 meter It is for testing only 2 subs too expensive to buy, transport and modify the vessel. Is there somebody in Europe interested in a pressure test and share some of the cost? Was thinking of a fee of 1500,- BTW. I have a smaller pressure chamber for sale. It is rated for 375 Bar hot steam but filled with water it would be okay for 600 Bar. Diameter 390 mm (15,5") Length 1,9 meter (75") Weight 3 Ts. Best regards, Emile -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 11 16:33:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2017 21:33:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber filter References: <225530630.2643249.1486848829433.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <225530630.2643249.1486848829433@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,I did a scrubber test with my new 1kg radial scrubber. ?It keeps Gamma at 1570 ppm to 1700 ppm it seems to fluctuate for some reason. ?I am adding a discharge filter though because my absorbent was dusty.?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 11 16:54:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2017 13:54:43 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber filter Message-ID: <20170211135443.263782D@m0087795.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 11 18:32:35 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2017 23:32:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber filter In-Reply-To: <20170211135443.263782D@m0087795.ppops.net> References: <20170211135443.263782D@m0087795.ppops.net> Message-ID: <758212511.2672815.1486855955793@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,I built the scrubber to take 1 kg of absorbent and my absorbent comes in 1kg bags. ?I think 1 kg is good for 8 hr or so. ?I can send you a picture, it is pretty simple, looks like the?plumbing department at the hardware store blew up lol. ?It took about 4 hr to make. ?I use a desk top?monitor, it is actually the same as Emile posted but a desk top. I will send you a linkHank On Saturday, February 11, 2017 2:54 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Pictures ?? How many hours you figure that will last you??? What kind of CO2 monitor do you have??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber filter Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2017 21:33:49 +0000 (UTC) Hi All,I did a scrubber test with my new 1kg radial scrubber. ?It keeps Gamma at 1570 ppm to 1700 ppm it seems to fluctuate for some reason. ?I am adding a discharge filter though because my absorbent was dusty.?Hank_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 11 18:35:07 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2017 23:35:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <854412307.2646758.1486856108059@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,?this is the one I useHank On Saturday, February 11, 2017 4:34 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: javascript:; -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2017-02-11 at 4.33 PM.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18737 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 11 19:13:57 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2017 17:13:57 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber filter In-Reply-To: cfNlcuoQGZDDkcfNmcUKHs References: <225530630.2643249.1486848829433.ref@mail.yahoo.com> cfNlcuoQGZDDkcfNmcUKHs Message-ID: Hank, I can't help but think that you should be doing better than 1500 - 1700. How fast is the airflow through your scrubber, where is the meter in relation to it, and does the cabin air get well circulated? Sean On February 11, 2017 2:33:49 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi All,I did a scrubber test with my new 1kg radial scrubber. ?It keeps >Gamma at 1570 ppm to 1700 ppm it seems to fluctuate for some reason. ?I >am adding a discharge filter though because my absorbent was >dusty.?Hank > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 11 19:31:33 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 13:31:33 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber filter In-Reply-To: <225530630.2643249.1486848829433@mail.yahoo.com> References: <225530630.2643249.1486848829433.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <225530630.2643249.1486848829433@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <337E3535-C43D-4FF9-89C6-0391C8E9762A@yahoo.com> Hank, I bought Sofnalime CO2 from Molecular products & contacted them reguarding flow rates. They had a computer program for working out the required air flow through the canister to acheive your required CO2 levels. They just needed your cabin volume & I think scrubber volume. They seemed to really enjoy playing with this program. I would be confident other absorbent manufacturers would have similar programs. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 12/02/2017, at 10:33 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > I did a scrubber test with my new 1kg radial scrubber. It keeps Gamma at 1570 ppm to 1700 ppm it seems to fluctuate for some reason. I am adding a discharge filter though because my absorbent was dusty. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 11 19:29:58 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 00:29:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber filter In-Reply-To: References: <225530630.2643249.1486848829433.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <392977385.2664681.1486859398160@mail.yahoo.com> Sean,I think the air flow is a bit to high, but the filter?should slow it down. ?I get a much better reading if the sensor is closer to the scrubber outflow (1100 ppm) ?The cabin does not get well circulated. ?My other scrubber was better for that because the scrubber fan is oriented better for air circulation. ? Normally when I dive I run my interior fan periodically just for comfort also.Hank On Saturday, February 11, 2017 5:14 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I can't help but think that you should be doing better than 1500 - 1700. How fast is the airflow through your scrubber, where is the meter in relation to it, and does the cabin air get well circulated?Sean On February 11, 2017 2:33:49 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I did a scrubber test with my new 1kg radial scrubber. ?It keeps Gamma at 1570 ppm to 1700 ppm it seems to fluctuate for some reason. ?I am adding a discharge filter though because my absorbent was dusty.?Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 11 19:36:28 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 00:36:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber filter In-Reply-To: <337E3535-C43D-4FF9-89C6-0391C8E9762A@yahoo.com> References: <225530630.2643249.1486848829433.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <225530630.2643249.1486848829433@mail.yahoo.com> <337E3535-C43D-4FF9-89C6-0391C8E9762A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1072872646.2701372.1486859788736@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I am more of an experimental guy, you know, restrict the flow to get the best result. ?I am pretty darn happy with 1500-1700 right off bench ;-) ?I think I can tweet it to 1100 to 1200 ppmHank On Saturday, February 11, 2017 5:31 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I bought Sofnalime CO2 from Molecular products & contacted themreguarding flow rates. They had a computer program for workingout the required air flow through the canister to acheive your requiredCO2 levels. They just needed your cabin volume & I think scrubbervolume. They seemed to really enjoy playing with this program.? ?I would be confident other absorbent manufacturers would havesimilar programs.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/02/2017, at 10:33 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I did a scrubber test with my new 1kg radial scrubber. ?It keeps Gamma at 1570 ppm to 1700 ppm it seems to fluctuate for some reason. ?I am adding a discharge filter though because my absorbent was dusty.?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 11 20:42:28 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 14:42:28 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber filter In-Reply-To: <1072872646.2701372.1486859788736@mail.yahoo.com> References: <225530630.2643249.1486848829433.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <225530630.2643249.1486848829433@mail.yahoo.com> <337E3535-C43D-4FF9-89C6-0391C8E9762A@yahoo.com> <1072872646.2701372.1486859788736@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1BD3AEF9-24BA-41F9-8451-CAA6E4C95BB4@yahoo.com> Hank, you'll be watching a few movies in there getting it right:) With my small cabin volume it's going to be a bit more of a problem. I'll have 2 scrubbers like Deep Worker 2000 so I can flick over to one while changing the other if it's ever needed. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 12/02/2017, at 1:36 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I am more of an experimental guy, you know, restrict the flow to get the best result. I am pretty darn happy with 1500-1700 right off bench ;-) I think I can tweet it to 1100 to 1200 ppm > Hank > > > On Saturday, February 11, 2017 5:31 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > I bought Sofnalime CO2 from Molecular products & contacted them > reguarding flow rates. They had a computer program for working > out the required air flow through the canister to acheive your required > CO2 levels. They just needed your cabin volume & I think scrubber > volume. They seemed to really enjoy playing with this program. > I would be confident other absorbent manufacturers would have > similar programs. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 12/02/2017, at 10:33 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> I did a scrubber test with my new 1kg radial scrubber. It keeps Gamma at 1570 ppm to 1700 ppm it seems to fluctuate for some reason. I am adding a discharge filter though because my absorbent was dusty. >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 11 21:29:14 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 02:29:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber filter Message-ID: <219B85F470BD7B39.86aab27a-c436-4775-adba-1fb75d527c3a@mail.outlook.com> Waiting for warmer weather to try scrubber my design, but for circulation I mounted a bilge blower fan aft, high on the starboard side. Ran it through a cheap 12v rheostat. Should move the air around even set on low.??? Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 11 22:07:41 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 03:07:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber filter In-Reply-To: <219B85F470BD7B39.86aab27a-c436-4775-adba-1fb75d527c3a@mail.outlook.com> References: <219B85F470BD7B39.86aab27a-c436-4775-adba-1fb75d527c3a@mail.outlook.com> Message-ID: <289085004.2596472.1486868861700@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,You would be surprised how fast the co2 level reacts even is a sub the size of Gamma.It will be real fast in yours, 2 scrubbers for sure.Hank On Saturday, February 11, 2017 7:30 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Waiting for warmer weather to try scrubber my design, but for circulation I mounted a bilge blower fan aft, high on the starboard side. Ran it through a cheap 12v rheostat. Should move the air around even set on low.??? Get Outlook for Android _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 12 05:27:23 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 11:27:23 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber filter In-Reply-To: <337E3535-C43D-4FF9-89C6-0391C8E9762A@yahoo.com> References: <225530630.2643249.1486848829433.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <225530630.2643249.1486848829433@mail.yahoo.com> <337E3535-C43D-4FF9-89C6-0391C8E9762A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0d2501d2851a$99a7ca80$ccf75f80$@nl> Alan, Is the program somewhere available? I did a lot of practice testing but this would be interesting. Wonder if temperature and humidity is incorporated. Best regards, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 12 februari 2017 1:32 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber filter Hank, I bought Sofnalime CO2 from Molecular products & contacted them reguarding flow rates. They had a computer program for working out the required air flow through the canister to acheive your required CO2 levels. They just needed your cabin volume & I think scrubber volume. They seemed to really enjoy playing with this program. I would be confident other absorbent manufacturers would have similar programs. Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/02/2017, at 10:33 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, I did a scrubber test with my new 1kg radial scrubber. It keeps Gamma at 1570 ppm to 1700 ppm it seems to fluctuate for some reason. I am adding a discharge filter though because my absorbent was dusty. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 12 07:54:44 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 01:54:44 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber filter In-Reply-To: <0d2501d2851a$99a7ca80$ccf75f80$@nl> References: <225530630.2643249.1486848829433.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <225530630.2643249.1486848829433@mail.yahoo.com> <337E3535-C43D-4FF9-89C6-0391C8E9762A@yahoo.com> <0d2501d2851a$99a7ca80$ccf75f80$@nl> Message-ID: <6A901A69-9713-4CC2-8F5E-3B2D4F76FD47@yahoo.com> Emile, l emailed Molecular products in the UK with a question a few years ago, & they offered to model what I was doing in their computer. I do not think they have made a calculator available to the public, but were very helpful & have done analyses for military submarines & no doubt hyperbaric chambers. If you are using their product, I am sure they would give you various scenarios of required flow rates to keep below certain CO2 levels, for the size of your hull & number of occupants. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 12/02/2017, at 11:27 PM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > > Is the program somewhere available? I did a lot of practice testing but this would be interesting. > Wonder if temperature and humidity is incorporated. > > Best regards, Emile > > Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: zondag 12 februari 2017 1:32 > Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber filter > > Hank, > I bought Sofnalime CO2 from Molecular products & contacted them > reguarding flow rates. They had a computer program for working > out the required air flow through the canister to acheive your required > CO2 levels. They just needed your cabin volume & I think scrubber > volume. They seemed to really enjoy playing with this program. > I would be confident other absorbent manufacturers would have > similar programs. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 12/02/2017, at 10:33 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > I did a scrubber test with my new 1kg radial scrubber. It keeps Gamma at 1570 ppm to 1700 ppm it seems to fluctuate for some reason. I am adding a discharge filter though because my absorbent was dusty. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 12 12:03:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 17:03:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] circulation fan References: <745797931.2800844.1486919029772.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <745797931.2800844.1486919029772@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,You are brilliant! ?I too have a marine engine compartment fan. ?Your use of a rheostat on that fan for circulation is a perfect idea. ?I am going to copy that idea but go a step further and use a PWM speed controller on it so I can reverse it. ?I use that fan for cooling the sub and periodic air circulation. ?Mostly though it is for bringing in fresh air from outside with a flexible hose. ?By reversing it, I can push inside air out or bring outside air in. ??Hank I am a bone head! ?I left three wires exposed waiting for a new switch in my hand held motor control ?panel. ?They shorted and melted the feed power wire, now it is a full day job to replace the multi wire cable ;-(? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 12 14:43:40 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 13:43:40 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber filter In-Reply-To: References: <225530630.2643249.1486848829433.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Did some looking into published info on CO2 concentrations in submarines. If you look at work by Hager 2003 for US NAVY, he looked at nine nuclear fast attack boats and the average CO2 concentration for the observed was 3,500 ppm with a range of 0-10,600 ppm. In the same report he looked at another 10 nuclear fast attack boats and the average of 4,100 ppm with a range of 300,-11,300 ppm was observed. The reference for this work is: . Hagar, R. 2003. Submarine Atmosphere Control and Monitoring Brief for the COT Committee. Presentation at the First Meeting on Emergency and Continuous Exposure Guidance Levels for Selected Submarine Contaminants, January 23, 2003, Washington, DC. In a report by Gude and Schaefer in 1969 from US Navy Submarine Medial Center they studied ten subjects after a 20 days of exposure on two patrols, they found their exposure was to 0.8-0.9% CO2 or 8,000-9,000 ppm. The reference for this data is: Gude, J.F. and Schafer, K.E. ?The Effect of Respotory Dead space of prolonged exposure to a submarine enviornment. U.S. Navy Submarfine Medical ,report SMRL587, 4.p June 27,1969. It is important to note that nuclear subs remove CO2 from their boats in an intirely different way, that use a small contacting vessel and Amine solution specifically monoethanolamine (MEA) that is recycled. See http://www93.homepage.villanova.edu/michael.b.walsh/CO2Scrubber.htm PSubs and rebreathers use a absorption method. ABS rules require that we stay below 5000 ppm. So to me as long as we can keep the CO2 levels below 5000 ppm for our boats we should be good. With a radial filter and using SodaSorbHP 4-8 mesh, the scrubber on my boat keeps the level below 2200 ppm with the average about 1500 ppm. I may have mentioned this before (sad to get old) but there is an excellent report on CO2 scrubber design that Prepared by M. L. NUCKOLS, A. PURER, G. A. DEASON US Navy. "*NCSC TECH MAN 4110-1-83*. I. (REVISION A). S00. TECHNICAL MANUAL tow. DESIGN GUIDELINES FOR. CARBON DIOXIDE SCRUBBERS. I. MAY 1983. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwi1ycq5jIvSAhULqFQKHZntCgEQFggcMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdtic.mil%2Fcgi-bin%2FGetTRDoc%3FAD%3DADA160181&usg=AFQjCNEkEuITHpiL3OhlPfSkacVD6iL3iA There a lot of technical info on scrubbers in this report. What we need is someone to take as a PSUB research project reading, digesting and converting this report into an Excel spreadsheet that we could use to evaluate our scrubber designs. We could then do some experiment work with our scrubber's to test the new spreadsheet. Cliff On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 6:13 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hank, I can't help but think that you should be doing better than 1500 - > 1700. How fast is the airflow through your scrubber, where is the meter in > relation to it, and does the cabin air get well circulated? > > Sean > > > On February 11, 2017 2:33:49 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> I did a scrubber test with my new 1kg radial scrubber. It keeps Gamma at >> 1570 ppm to 1700 ppm it seems to fluctuate for some reason. I am adding a >> discharge filter though because my absorbent was dusty. >> Hank >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 12 17:00:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 11:00:49 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber filter In-Reply-To: References: <225530630.2643249.1486848829433.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <353AE194-DD75-4311-86EA-DB6755B1C548@yahoo.com> Thanks Cliff, I have to go through all this. Was thinking that the military document might be a bit old with advancements in CO2 absorbent porosity etc. Here is a recent paper that talks about new standards for absorbent. http://www.imca-int.com/media/225910/d1_david_cook.pdf Alan Sent from my iPad > On 13/02/2017, at 8:43 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Did some looking into published info on CO2 concentrations in submarines. If you look at work by Hager 2003 for US NAVY, he looked at nine nuclear fast attack boats and the average CO2 concentration for the observed was 3,500 ppm with a range of 0-10,600 ppm. In the same report he looked at another 10 nuclear fast attack boats and the average of 4,100 ppm with a range of 300,-11,300 ppm was observed. The reference for this work is: > . > Hagar, R. 2003. Submarine Atmosphere Control and Monitoring Brief for the COT Committee. Presentation at the First Meeting on Emergency and Continuous Exposure Guidance Levels for Selected Submarine Contaminants, January 23, 2003, Washington, DC. > > In a report by Gude and Schaefer in 1969 from US Navy Submarine Medial Center they studied ten subjects after a 20 days of exposure on two patrols, they found their exposure was to 0.8-0.9% CO2 or 8,000-9,000 ppm. The reference for this data is: > > Gude, J.F. and Schafer, K.E. ?The Effect of Respotory Dead space of prolonged exposure to a submarine enviornment. U.S. Navy Submarfine Medical ,report SMRL587, 4.p June 27,1969. > It is important to note that nuclear subs remove CO2 from their boats in an intirely different way, that use a small contacting vessel and Amine solution specifically monoethanolamine (MEA) that is recycled. See http://www93.homepage.villanova.edu/michael.b.walsh/CO2Scrubber.htm PSubs and rebreathers use a absorption method. > > ABS rules require that we stay below 5000 ppm. So to me as long as we can keep the CO2 levels below 5000 ppm for our boats we should be good. > With a radial filter and using SodaSorbHP 4-8 mesh, the scrubber on my boat keeps the level below 2200 ppm with the average about 1500 ppm. > > I may have mentioned this before (sad to get old) but there is an excellent report on CO2 scrubber design that Prepared by M. L. NUCKOLS, A. PURER, G. A. DEASON US Navy. "NCSC TECH MAN 4110-1-83. I. (REVISION A). S00. TECHNICAL MANUAL tow. DESIGN GUIDELINES FOR. CARBON DIOXIDE SCRUBBERS. I. MAY 1983. > http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwi1ycq5jIvSAhULqFQKHZntCgEQFggcMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdtic.mil%2Fcgi-bin%2FGetTRDoc%3FAD%3DADA160181&usg=AFQjCNEkEuITHpiL3OhlPfSkacVD6iL3iA > > There a lot of technical info on scrubbers in this report. What we need is someone to take as a PSUB research project reading, digesting and converting this report into an Excel spreadsheet that we could use to evaluate our scrubber designs. We could then do some experiment work with our scrubber's to test the new spreadsheet. > > > Cliff > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 6:13 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hank, I can't help but think that you should be doing better than 1500 - 1700. How fast is the airflow through your scrubber, where is the meter in relation to it, and does the cabin air get well circulated? >> >> Sean >> >> >>> On February 11, 2017 2:33:49 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Hi All, >>> I did a scrubber test with my new 1kg radial scrubber. It keeps Gamma at 1570 ppm to 1700 ppm it seems to fluctuate for some reason. I am adding a discharge filter though because my absorbent was dusty. >>> Hank >>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 12 19:48:29 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 00:48:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] circulation fan Message-ID: <219B85F470BD7B39.aac1f012-e4ef-4ea9-94c1-f14d84a254cd@mail.outlook.com> I like the idea of being able to reverse the fan. Hmmm ... need to think about that.? Looking at how Jim Harris cools his subs on the surface, I found one of those roll around AC units where you poke the exhaust out the window. Got it cheap used on Craigslist. I'll mount an adapter to the cooling vent side and then snake a flexible clothes drier hose up and in through the hatch, blowing in cold air. Should be great for working on Harold in the summer. BTW, here's the miniature rheostat I used. With a little dremel work I could stick it inside the bilge blower mount with the switch sticking out. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Qunqi-1-8V-3V-5V-6V-12V-2A-PWM-DC-Motor-Speed-Control-w-Potentiometer-Switch-/252591839147?hash=item3acfa597ab I'm planning to mount the scrubber on the port side, just about in the middle of the arc, right behind the pilot seat. Air flow will be pointed aft. With the bilge fan all the way aft on the starboard side, it should set up a slow motion circular air flow. That's the plan at least. Or I might try to mount the scrubber all the way forward on the port side. That's where Kittredge had his in the K600. The sensor for the PPO2 meter hangs in front of the bilge fan, about a foot away from it. O2 is added beneath the scrubber, at the inlet, and then mixed as it's pulled through. Kind of like an O2 rebreather. Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 13 02:30:29 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 20:30:29 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber In-Reply-To: <2d765293-d050-4401-9d10-d46c82932002@email.android.com> References: <2d765293-d050-4401-9d10-d46c82932002@email.android.com> Message-ID: Sean, in this email you are advising keeping humidity between 30 & 70%. Any ideas on the best way of doing that? I am going to use a humidity sensor & PLC, so have the option of automating functions. Have thought of having some sought of valve that channels air through a filter prior to the scrubber, when humidity is high. Another thought was blowing air under a raised floor so that moisture laden air was forced between the floor & hull, & condensed against the cold hull. I have thought about peltier coolers also, as they have the dual option of being heaters by reversing the current. They are a bit expensive on power though. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 5/02/2017, at 2:31 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I am skeptical of the utility of the colour indicating absorbent. The reaction front in an axial scrubber is unlikely to be planar (unless perfectly diffused), but rather conical, so you could have breakthrough in the center before the indicating edge approaches the end of the canister, for example. I think actually measuring the CO2 accurately and using the rise in level as the indicator of scrubber breakthrough is the better course of action. One thing to note is that the colour change in the indicating absorbent is usually subtle, and submarine interiors are usually subdued light environments. In some media, the colour is readily apparent immediately after reaction, but the colour fades when left to stand for some time. Also, even if you have an acrylic or polycarbonate canister, dust from the scrubber media can accumulate on the inner wall and make visual inspection difficult. > > If I were me, I'd be inclined to design a scrubber that would permit relatively easy media or canister changes in situ, with a designed capacity equal to the mission time + reserve time (or split between multiple scrubbers), and then keep one or two additional sealed canisters or media changes tucked away on board. That way, you can make effective use of the media by exhausting it right to breakthrough. If you make short dives, you can do several on the same canister, and if you reach breakthrough (arbitrarily set but below the permissible limit), you change it out. I would choose a radial flow design, with airflow from outside to inside for maximum efficiency, and consider addressing the operating humidity of the sub to keep it between 30% and 70% RH. Some moisture is actually required for the scrubber to function, as the chemical reaction actually occurs in aqueous solution on the surface of the media granules. I would definitely make a point of ke! eping a partially used scrubber sealed off from atmospheric air when not in use. In the absence of a sealed container, simply keeping your hatch closed would suffice, as once the CO2 in the cabin is all reacted it is inert. Atmospheric air has 400 ppm CO2 in it, which will consume a scrubber over time if left exposed. > > Sean > > >> On February 4, 2017 5:45:26 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> I'd like to do a radial scrubber design but I also would like to use the indicating SodaSorb, so I can see the color change. Being able to see the color change with a radial design would be a challenge ! >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber >> Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2017 14:53:27 -0700 >> >> Yes. For the chemical reaction to work properly, the air needs some dwell time against the scrubber media. This may be specified in the media datasheets. Regardless, if your fan is too strong and you're blowing tons of air through it, you may just dry it out while scrubbing really inefficiently. If you! slow it down, you give the CO2 time to react and the bed gets more efficient. This is one of the reasons why radial flow scrubbers have an advantage - the surface area is huge, so the actual flow velocity through the bed is minimal in comparison to an axial flow design. You only need enough airflow to remove CO2 faster than you produce it, and ideally to process the entire air volume in your cabin a few times an hour. Slow, large diameter fans will be more effective than a high speed but small fan, and probably easier on your batteries too. >> >> Sean >> >> >> On February 4, 2017 2:38:32 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Is there such a thing as to TOO much air flow through a scrubber ?? >> >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber >> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:34:40 -0600 >> >> Brian, see http://www.ntz-filter.com/Radial_Filtration_versus_Axial_Filtration for picture which is worth at least a hundred words. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 11:36 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> What is the difference between a Axial scrubber and a radial ? >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber >> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 16:29:34 -0600 >> >> Started life with axial scrubber but now use radial design. Has ! worked much better for me. >> >> Cliff >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Feb 2, 2017, at 1:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Thanks' guys, that helps. >> Cliff, I assume you have an axial scrubber >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 13 06:49:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 11:49:56 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber In-Reply-To: References: <2d765293-d050-4401-9d10-d46c82932002@email.android.com> Message-ID: I wonder if something like this would work? I have them to keep the boat dry in the winter and it scoops up loads of water. But not sure if it would work to reduce humidity quickly enough when diving. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Damp-Rid-Hanging-Moisture-Absorber-3-Pack-FG83K-Moisture-Absorber-/160887533831 On 13 February 2017 at 07:30, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Sean, > in this email you are advising keeping humidity between 30 & 70%. > Any ideas on the best way of doing that? I am going to use a humidity > sensor & PLC, so have the option of automating functions. > Have thought of having some sought of valve that channels air through > a filter prior to the scrubber, when humidity is high. > Another thought was blowing air under a raised floor so that moisture > laden air was forced between the floor & hull, & condensed against the > cold hull. I have thought about peltier coolers also, as they have the > dual > option of being heaters by reversing the current. They are a bit expensive > on power though. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 5/02/2017, at 2:31 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I am skeptical of the utility of the colour indicating absorbent. The > reaction front in an axial scrubber is unlikely to be planar (unless > perfectly diffused), but rather conical, so you could have breakthrough in > the center before the indicating edge approaches the end of the canister, > for example. I think actually measuring the CO2 accurately and using the > rise in level as the indicator of scrubber breakthrough is the better > course of action. One thing to note is that the colour change in the > indicating absorbent is usually subtle, and submarine interiors are usually > subdued light environments. In some media, the colour is readily apparent > immediately after reaction, but the colour fades when left to stand for > some time. Also, even if you have an acrylic or polycarbonate canister, > dust from the scrubber media can accumulate on the inner wall and make > visual inspection difficult. > > If I were me, I'd be inclined to design a scrubber that would permit > relatively easy media or canister changes in situ, with a designed capacity > equal to the mission time + reserve time (or split between multiple > scrubbers), and then keep one or two additional sealed canisters or media > changes tucked away on board. That way, you can make effective use of the > media by exhausting it right to breakthrough. If you make short dives, you > can do several on the same canister, and if you reach breakthrough > (arbitrarily set but below the permissible limit), you change it out. I > would choose a radial flow design, with airflow from outside to inside for > maximum efficiency, and consider addressing the operating humidity of the > sub to keep it between 30% and 70% RH. Some moisture is actually required > for the scrubber to function, as the chemical reaction actually occurs in > aqueous solution on the surface of the media granules. I would definitely > make a point of ke! eping a partially used scrubber sealed off from > atmospheric air when not in use. In the absence of a sealed container, > simply keeping your hatch closed would suffice, as once the CO2 in the > cabin is all reacted it is inert. Atmospheric air has 400 ppm CO2 in it, > which will consume a scrubber over time if left exposed. > > Sean > > > On February 4, 2017 5:45:26 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> I'd like to do a radial scrubber design but I also would like to use the >> indicating SodaSorb, so I can see the color change. Being able to see the >> color change with a radial design would be a challenge ! >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber >> Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2017 14:53:27 -0700 >> >> Yes. For the chemical reaction to work properly, the air needs some dwell >> time against the scrubber media. This may be specified in the media >> datasheets. Regardless, if your fan is too strong and you're blowing tons >> of air through it, you may just dry it out while scrubbing really >> inefficiently. If you! slow it down, you give the CO2 time to react and >> the bed gets more efficient. This is one of the reasons why radial flow >> scrubbers have an advantage - the surface area is huge, so the actual flow >> velocity through the bed is minimal in comparison to an axial flow design. >> You only need enough airflow to remove CO2 faster than you produce it, and >> ideally to process the entire air volume in your cabin a few times an hour. >> Slow, large diameter fans will be more effective than a high speed but >> small fan, and probably easier on your batteries too. >> >> Sean >> >> On February 4, 2017 2:38:32 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Is there such a thing as to TOO much air flow through a scrubber ?? >> >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber >> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:34:40 -0600 >> >> Brian, see http://www.ntz-filter.com/Radial_Filtration_versus_ >> Axial_Filtration for picture which is worth at least a hundred words. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 11:36 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> What is the difference between a Axial scrubber and a radial ? >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber >> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 16:29:34 -0600 >> >> Started life with axial scrubber but now use radial design. Has ! worked >> much better for me. >> >> Cliff >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Feb 2, 2017, at 1:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Thanks' guys, that helps. >> Cliff, I assume you have an axial scrubber >> Hank >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 13 06:57:00 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 11:57:00 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber In-Reply-To: References: <2d765293-d050-4401-9d10-d46c82932002@email.android.com> Message-ID: seems to be loads of 12v ones available as well. Probably useless. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/500ml-Portable-Mini-Air-Dehumidifier-Damp-Mould-Moisture-Home-Kitchen-Bedroom/131982930763?_trksid=p2045573.c100507.m3226&_trkparms=aid%3D555014%26algo%3DPL.DEFAULT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20151016114640%26meid%3D3e6e46fed99d49f39e6dd133cc4d3796%26pid%3D100507%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26 On 13 February 2017 at 11:49, James Frankland wrote: > I wonder if something like this would work? I have them to keep the boat > dry in the winter and it scoops up loads of water. But not sure if it would > work to reduce humidity quickly enough when diving. > > http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Damp-Rid-Hanging-Moisture-Absorber-3-Pack-FG83K- > Moisture-Absorber-/160887533831 > > On 13 February 2017 at 07:30, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Sean, >> in this email you are advising keeping humidity between 30 & 70%. >> Any ideas on the best way of doing that? I am going to use a humidity >> sensor & PLC, so have the option of automating functions. >> Have thought of having some sought of valve that channels air through >> a filter prior to the scrubber, when humidity is high. >> Another thought was blowing air under a raised floor so that moisture >> laden air was forced between the floor & hull, & condensed against the >> cold hull. I have thought about peltier coolers also, as they have the >> dual >> option of being heaters by reversing the current. They are a bit expensive >> on power though. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 5/02/2017, at 2:31 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> I am skeptical of the utility of the colour indicating absorbent. The >> reaction front in an axial scrubber is unlikely to be planar (unless >> perfectly diffused), but rather conical, so you could have breakthrough in >> the center before the indicating edge approaches the end of the canister, >> for example. I think actually measuring the CO2 accurately and using the >> rise in level as the indicator of scrubber breakthrough is the better >> course of action. One thing to note is that the colour change in the >> indicating absorbent is usually subtle, and submarine interiors are usually >> subdued light environments. In some media, the colour is readily apparent >> immediately after reaction, but the colour fades when left to stand for >> some time. Also, even if you have an acrylic or polycarbonate canister, >> dust from the scrubber media can accumulate on the inner wall and make >> visual inspection difficult. >> >> If I were me, I'd be inclined to design a scrubber that would permit >> relatively easy media or canister changes in situ, with a designed capacity >> equal to the mission time + reserve time (or split between multiple >> scrubbers), and then keep one or two additional sealed canisters or media >> changes tucked away on board. That way, you can make effective use of the >> media by exhausting it right to breakthrough. If you make short dives, you >> can do several on the same canister, and if you reach breakthrough >> (arbitrarily set but below the permissible limit), you change it out. I >> would choose a radial flow design, with airflow from outside to inside for >> maximum efficiency, and consider addressing the operating humidity of the >> sub to keep it between 30% and 70% RH. Some moisture is actually required >> for the scrubber to function, as the chemical reaction actually occurs in >> aqueous solution on the surface of the media granules. I would definitely >> make a point of ke! eping a partially used scrubber sealed off from >> atmospheric air when not in use. In the absence of a sealed container, >> simply keeping your hatch closed would suffice, as once the CO2 in the >> cabin is all reacted it is inert. Atmospheric air has 400 ppm CO2 in it, >> which will consume a scrubber over time if left exposed. >> >> Sean >> >> >> On February 4, 2017 5:45:26 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> I'd like to do a radial scrubber design but I also would like to use the >>> indicating SodaSorb, so I can see the color change. Being able to see the >>> color change with a radial design would be a challenge ! >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber >>> Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2017 14:53:27 -0700 >>> >>> Yes. For the chemical reaction to work properly, the air needs some >>> dwell time against the scrubber media. This may be specified in the media >>> datasheets. Regardless, if your fan is too strong and you're blowing tons >>> of air through it, you may just dry it out while scrubbing really >>> inefficiently. If you! slow it down, you give the CO2 time to react and >>> the bed gets more efficient. This is one of the reasons why radial flow >>> scrubbers have an advantage - the surface area is huge, so the actual flow >>> velocity through the bed is minimal in comparison to an axial flow design. >>> You only need enough airflow to remove CO2 faster than you produce it, and >>> ideally to process the entire air volume in your cabin a few times an hour. >>> Slow, large diameter fans will be more effective than a high speed but >>> small fan, and probably easier on your batteries too. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> On February 4, 2017 2:38:32 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Is there such a thing as to TOO much air flow through a scrubber ?? >>> >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber >>> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:34:40 -0600 >>> >>> Brian, see http://www.ntz-filter.com/Radial_Filtration_versus_Axial_ >>> Filtration for picture which is worth at least a hundred words. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 11:36 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> What is the difference between a Axial scrubber and a radial ? >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber >>> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 16:29:34 -0600 >>> >>> Started life with axial scrubber but now use radial design. Has ! >>> worked much better for me. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 1:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks' guys, that helps. >>> Cliff, I assume you have an axial scrubber >>> Hank >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 13 07:45:39 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 05:45:39 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber In-Reply-To: dB6ncG8Imym4sdB6ocCuLs References: <2d765293-d050-4401-9d10-d46c82932002@email.android.com> dB6ncG8Imym4sdB6ocCuLs Message-ID: <4984cdc5-728b-40bb-b6ab-e17e511a88ab@email.android.com> Well, given the drastic impact on energy budgets that active air conditioning can have, I would definitely focus on what you can do passively first. Moisture will preferentially condense on any surface which is cooler than the air temperature, and in a hull submerged in cold water, it is likely to be wet everywhere if the cabin air is humid. I like your idea of blowing air under the floor against an uninsulated hull, but in conjunction with completely insulating the hull above the floor, which will act to increase the temperature difference by maintaining a warmer cabin and lowering the relative humidity of the returning air. I would not specifically feed dry air into your scrubber. As I mentioned in that post, moisture is actually part of the reaction (both as a solvent and as a reaction product), and it will lose effectiveness in dry air. Just let the scrubber do its thing, and manage humidity separately. That could be as simple as starting with a dry cabin (don't wear wet clothes when you get in) and allowing humidity to rise over the course of a dive. Dessicants can help too, and a relatively cheap one is calcium chloride (sidewalk ice melter). Diving in cold water makes moisture removal easier. If you're in the tropics, you're more likely to need an active solution. Keep in mind that 30 - 70 % is the ABS recommendation, but your electronics are generally fine as long as they never get wet. Most specifications will state a maximum of 95% non-condensing for this reason. Human comfort is a different issue entirely. The greater the humidity, the greater the reported "comfort" temperature. I might look at doing what I could passively through design first and foremost (incidentally, if you have any heat-generating electronics, try to avoid heat sinking them through the hull, as that heat is potentially useful), and then look as the most power efficient active dehumidifier I could find if that isn't sufficient to keep RH below 100% (or ideally below the ABS 70% limit if the power budget allows). An important thing to keep in mind is that warm air holds more moisture, so as long as your hull is colder than the other surfaces in the boat, condensation will preferentially occur there. This is a potential problem for someone who travels with their boat in the winter to submerge it in water which is warmer than the air temperature, because if the hull warms up faster than the installed equipment in the boat, the condensation will occur there. This is why I'm a fan of conformal coatings on the components of marine electronics. Sean On February 13, 2017 12:30:29 AM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Sean, >in this email you are advising keeping humidity between 30 & 70%. >Any ideas on the best way of doing that? I am going to use a humidity >sensor & PLC, so have the option of automating functions. > Have thought of having some sought of valve that channels air through >a filter prior to the scrubber, when humidity is high. >Another thought was blowing air under a raised floor so that moisture >laden air was forced between the floor & hull, & condensed against the >cold hull. I have thought about peltier coolers also, as they have the >dual >option of being heaters by reversing the current. They are a bit >expensive >on power though. >Alan > >Sent from my iPad > >> On 5/02/2017, at 2:31 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> I am skeptical of the utility of the colour indicating absorbent. The >reaction front in an axial scrubber is unlikely to be planar (unless >perfectly diffused), but rather conical, so you could have breakthrough >in the center before the indicating edge approaches the end of the >canister, for example. I think actually measuring the CO2 accurately >and using the rise in level as the indicator of scrubber breakthrough >is the better course of action. One thing to note is that the colour >change in the indicating absorbent is usually subtle, and submarine >interiors are usually subdued light environments. In some media, the >colour is readily apparent immediately after reaction, but the colour >fades when left to stand for some time. Also, even if you have an >acrylic or polycarbonate canister, dust from the scrubber media can >accumulate on the inner wall and make visual inspection difficult. >> >> If I were me, I'd be inclined to design a scrubber that would permit >relatively easy media or canister changes in situ, with a designed >capacity equal to the mission time + reserve time (or split between >multiple scrubbers), and then keep one or two additional sealed >canisters or media changes tucked away on board. That way, you can >make effective use of the media by exhausting it right to breakthrough. >If you make short dives, you can do several on the same canister, and >if you reach breakthrough (arbitrarily set but below the permissible >limit), you change it out. I would choose a radial flow design, with >airflow from outside to inside for maximum efficiency, and consider >addressing the operating humidity of the sub to keep it between 30% and >70% RH. Some moisture is actually required for the scrubber to >function, as the chemical reaction actually occurs in aqueous solution >on the surface of the media granules. I would definitely make a point >of ke! eping a partially used scrubber sealed off from atmospheric air >when not in use. In the absence of a sealed container, simply keeping >your hatch closed would suffice, as once the CO2 in the cabin is all >reacted it is inert. Atmospheric air has 400 ppm CO2 in it, which will >consume a scrubber over time if left exposed. >> >> Sean >> >> >>> On February 4, 2017 5:45:26 PM MST, Brian Cox via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> I'd like to do a radial scrubber design but I also would like to use >the indicating SodaSorb, so I can see the color change. Being able to >see the color change with a radial design would be a challenge ! >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber >>> Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2017 14:53:27 -0700 >>> >>> Yes. For the chemical reaction to work properly, the air needs some >dwell time against the scrubber media. This may be specified in the >media datasheets. Regardless, if your fan is too strong and you're >blowing tons of air through it, you may just dry it out while scrubbing >really inefficiently. If you! slow it down, you give the CO2 time to >react and the bed gets more efficient. This is one of the reasons why >radial flow scrubbers have an advantage - the surface area is huge, so >the actual flow velocity through the bed is minimal in comparison to an >axial flow design. You only need enough airflow to remove CO2 faster >than you produce it, and ideally to process the entire air volume in >your cabin a few times an hour. Slow, large diameter fans will be more >effective than a high speed but small fan, and probably easier on your >batteries too. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>> On February 4, 2017 2:38:32 PM MST, Brian Cox via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Is there such a thing as to TOO much air flow through a scrubber ?? >>> >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber >>> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:34:40 -0600 >>> >>> Brian, see >http://www.ntz-filter.com/Radial_Filtration_versus_Axial_Filtration for >picture which is worth at least a hundred words. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 11:36 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >>> What is the difference between a Axial scrubber and a radial ? >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber >>> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 16:29:34 -0600 >>> >>> Started life with axial scrubber but now use radial design. Has ! >worked much better for me. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 1:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >>> >>> Thanks' guys, that helps. >>> Cliff, I assume you have an axial scrubber >>> Hank >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 13 08:20:07 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=C3=A9_Eriksen?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 14:20:07 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] electrical connectors Message-ID: Hi, Just got a quote on high power connectors (50A) from Subconn (HPBH4F/ HPPBOF4M). 480 Euro (410 USD) for female+male connector. For 6 thrusters this will be a bit expensive. Where do you buy your high power connectors? Regards Andr? E. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 13 09:04:33 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 08:04:33 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] electrical connectors Message-ID: Andr?,I have found subconn to be the least expensive. Be sure to ask for the Psub discount of 20%.?Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Andr? Eriksen via Personal_Submersibles Date: 2/13/17 7:20 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] electrical connectors Hi, Just got a quote on high power connectors (50A) from Subconn (HPBH4F/HPPBOF4M).480 Euro (410 USD) for female+male connector.? For 6 thrusters this will be a bit expensive.?Where do you buy your high power connectors? RegardsAndr? E. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 13 09:51:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 14:51:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] electrical connectors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <218502612.3335173.1486997513723@mail.yahoo.com> Andre,I make my own, with a little creativity, it is not difficult. ?Gamma has 6 such penetrators tested to 1,000 psi.Another much cheaper option is Blue Globe fittings.Hank On Monday, February 13, 2017 6:20 AM, Andr? Eriksen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi, Just got a quote on high power connectors (50A) from Subconn (HPBH4F/HPPBOF4M).480 Euro (410 USD) for female+male connector.? For 6 thrusters this will be a bit expensive.?Where do you buy your high power connectors? RegardsAndr? E. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 13 09:57:48 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 08:57:48 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] electrical connectors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Andre, rather than using the Subconn 4 pin bulkhead connector you speced ( HPBH4F/HPPBOF4M) you might want to consider using two of the 2 pin bulkhead connectors like subconn BHB2F & BHB2M. The cost for these are a lot cheaper. The 316-SS penetration disk I have on my boat has four machined holes to accept four of these bulkhead penetrators, For the thrusters penetrators on my boat I ordered from McCarntey: [image: Inline image 1] Prices are in USD. MacArtney in US is distributer for Subconn. Jon Wallace set this up with MacArtney. The contact who will give you the 20% Psub discount is *Jacobo Aguilar* *Head of Connectivity / Subconn.* *MacArtney Inc. - Gulf of Mexico Operations* *Office: +1 713-266-7575* *Mobile: +1 713-504-1757* *Email: jag at macartney.com * *Website: www.macartney.com * * Cliff* On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 7:20 AM, Andr? Eriksen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi, > > Just got a quote on high power connectors (50A) from Subconn (HPBH4F/ > HPPBOF4M). > 480 Euro (410 USD) for female+male connector. > > For 6 thrusters this will be a bit expensive. > Where do you buy your high power connectors? > > > Regards > Andr? E. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 30237 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 13 10:02:15 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 16:02:15 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] electrical connectors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0e7501d2860a$299807f0$7cc817d0$@nl> Hi Andre, As 120 Amp connectors are not so common or very expensive, I make them myself. Quite simple if done one cable in one hole. Can be epoxy cast or with Delrin and O-rings. Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Andr? Eriksen via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 13 februari 2017 14:20 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] electrical connectors Hi, Just got a quote on high power connectors (50A) from Subconn (HPBH4F/HPPBOF4M). 480 Euro (410 USD) for female+male connector. For 6 thrusters this will be a bit expensive. Where do you buy your high power connectors? Regards Andr? E. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 13 11:36:15 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 11:36:15 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber Message-ID: I don't see what the aversion to using desiccant is. Silica gel desiccant are rechargeable, so wouldn't be expensive at all to utilize. After they are loaded with water and the indicator changes color, you simply bake it in an oven and it's good as new. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 13 16:14:08 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 10:14:08 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A4A2CA3-C797-47CC-8064-5EFAE338C850@yahoo.com> Thanks for the suggestions. I think I'll take Sean's advice & keep my humidity control device separate from the scrubber intake. Using another fan & directing air through a desiccant filter may be the way to go. Plenty of humidity in Auckland to experiment with, it's 92% at the moment. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 14/02/2017, at 5:36 AM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I don't see what the aversion to using desiccant is. Silica gel desiccant are rechargeable, so wouldn't be expensive at all to utilize. After they are loaded with water and the indicator changes color, you simply bake it in an oven and it's good as new. > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 14 10:30:40 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 08:30:40 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber In-Reply-To: dNxscaQjc3Zy3dNxtcFfRP References: dNxscaQjc3Zy3dNxtcFfRP Message-ID: Just another comment regarding the cabin air - the temperature needs to be maintained within limits of 14?C to 30?C (57.2?F - 86?F). Water vapour production is 1.81 kg (4 lb) per person per day. Sean On February 13, 2017 2:14:08 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Thanks for the suggestions. >I think I'll take Sean's advice & keep my humidity control device >separate >from the scrubber intake. >Using another fan & directing air through a desiccant filter may be the >way >to go. Plenty of humidity in Auckland to experiment with, it's 92% at >the moment. >Alan > >Sent from my iPad > >> On 14/02/2017, at 5:36 AM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> I don't see what the aversion to using desiccant is. Silica gel >desiccant are rechargeable, so wouldn't be expensive at all to utilize. >After they are loaded with water and the indicator changes color, you >simply bake it in an oven and it's good as new. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 14 15:50:26 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 20:50:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1141284576.4433061.1487105426931@mail.yahoo.com> I just completed more scrubber testing. ?With both scrubbers running and me breathing into the re-breather scrubber, I bottomed out a 508 ppm. ?If I turn off the radial scrubber it starts to climb immediately. ?If I stop breathing into the re-breather scrubber, the level rises immediately. ?The re-breather has a fan running also. ?The humidity level in Gamma is 66% and the temp is 15C . ?My conclusion is that I need to increase the humidity level. ?The humidity level in Gamma rose from 48% to 66% during the test. ?Also at this temperature, Like Emile said, the radial scrubber needs to warm up of at least 15 minutes. ?The re-breather scrubber with me breathing into it starts to work almost immediately. ?I also think my fan is to fast on my radial scrubber at 24 V, I can run it on 12V and see what happens. ?The radial filter did not slow the airflow as I expected.The speed control on the cooling\ circulation ? fan is an absolute dream.Hank On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 8:31 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just another comment regarding the cabin air - the temperature needs to be maintained within limits of 14?C to 30?C (57.2?F - 86?F).? Water vapour production is 1.81 kg (4 lb) per person per day.Sean On February 13, 2017 2:14:08 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the suggestions. I think I'll take Sean's advice & keep my humidity control device separate from the scrubber intake. Using another fan & directing air through a desiccant filter may be the way to go. Plenty of humidity in Auckland to experiment with, it's 92% at the moment. Alan Sent from my iPad On 14/02/2017, at 5:36 AM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I don't see what the aversion to using desiccant is. Silica gel desiccant are rechargeable, so wouldn't be expensive at all to utilize. After they are loaded with water and the indicator changes color, you simply bake it in an oven and it's good as new. Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or! g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 14 16:05:25 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 14:05:25 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber In-Reply-To: dk8NcpUPIDG7qdk8Oc2V60 References: dk8NcpUPIDG7qdk8Oc2V60 Message-ID: <484623dd-3234-4c1e-8a41-5ee5905349b4@email.android.com> Hank, I doubt that humidity is your problem, within the 30 - 70 % limits. You would probably see improved performance with increased temperature, which is probably why the scrubber you breathe into directly works better. Sean On February 14, 2017 1:50:26 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >I just completed more scrubber testing. ?With both scrubbers running >and me breathing into the re-breather scrubber, I bottomed out a 508 >ppm. ?If I turn off the radial scrubber it starts to climb immediately. >?If I stop breathing into the re-breather scrubber, the level rises >immediately. ?The re-breather has a fan running also. ?The humidity >level in Gamma is 66% and the temp is 15C . ?My conclusion is that I >need to increase the humidity level. ?The humidity level in Gamma rose >from 48% to 66% during the test. ?Also at this temperature, Like Emile >said, the radial scrubber needs to warm up of at least 15 minutes. ?The >re-breather scrubber with me breathing into it starts to work almost >immediately. ?I also think my fan is to fast on my radial scrubber at >24 V, I can run it on 12V and see what happens. ?The radial filter did >not slow the airflow as I expected.The speed control on the cooling\ >circulation ? fan is an absolute dream.Hank > >On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 8:31 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Just another comment regarding the cabin air - the temperature needs to >be maintained within limits of 14?C to 30?C (57.2?F - 86?F).? Water >vapour production is 1.81 kg (4 lb) per person per day.Sean > > >On February 13, 2017 2:14:08 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >Thanks for the suggestions. >I think I'll take Sean's advice & keep my humidity control device >separate >from the scrubber intake. >Using another fan & directing air through a desiccant filter may be the >way >to go. Plenty of humidity in Auckland to experiment with, it's 92% at >the moment. >Alan > >Sent from my iPad > > >On 14/02/2017, at 5:36 AM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >I don't see what the aversion to using desiccant is. Silica gel >desiccant are rechargeable, so wouldn't be expensive at all to utilize. >After they are loaded with water and the indicator changes color, you >simply bake it in an oven and it's good as new. > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or! g >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 14 16:56:40 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 15:56:40 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber In-Reply-To: <1141284576.4433061.1487105426931@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1141284576.4433061.1487105426931@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, ABS rules says your scrubber needs to operate for 72 hour past normal duty on the emergency battery bank. The issue for me was initially I was using a strong blower which did great for keeping the CO2 ppm level low but pulled to much current so that with my 100 Ah emergency battery, I could not make the full time. I went back and changed out the blower to one that pulled less current and was able to meet the requirement and still do a good job on CO2 concentration.. You might want to do test where you test your emergency battery bank endurance with the hotel load for current to make sure you meet this constraint. Does not have to be a manned test. Cliff On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 2:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I just completed more scrubber testing. With both scrubbers running and > me breathing into the re-breather scrubber, I bottomed out a 508 ppm. If I > turn off the radial scrubber it starts to climb immediately. If I stop > breathing into the re-breather scrubber, the level rises immediately. The > re-breather has a fan running also. The humidity level in Gamma is 66% and > the temp is 15C . My conclusion is that I need to increase the humidity > level. The humidity level in Gamma rose from 48% to 66% during the test. > Also at this temperature, Like Emile said, the radial scrubber needs to > warm up of at least 15 minutes. The re-breather scrubber with me breathing > into it starts to work almost immediately. I also think my fan is to fast > on my radial scrubber at 24 V, I can run it on 12V and see what happens. > The radial filter did not slow the airflow as I expected. > The speed control on the cooling\ circulation fan is an absolute dream. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 8:31 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Just another comment regarding the cabin air - the temperature needs to be > maintained within limits of 14?C to 30?C (57.2?F - 86?F). Water vapour > production is 1.81 kg (4 lb) per person per day. > Sean > > > On February 13, 2017 2:14:08 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks for the suggestions. > I think I'll take Sean's advice & keep my humidity control device separate > from the scrubber intake. > Using another fan & directing air through a desiccant filter may be the way > to go. Plenty of humidity in Auckland to experiment with, it's 92% at the moment. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 14/02/2017, at 5:36 AM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I don't see what the aversion to using desiccant is. Silica gel desiccant are rechargeable, so wouldn't be expensive at all to utilize. After they are loaded with water and the indicator changes color, you simply bake it in an oven and it's good as new. > > > ------------------------------ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or! > g > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > ------------------------------ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 14 17:44:36 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 22:44:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 scrubber In-Reply-To: References: <1141284576.4433061.1487105426931@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1886155081.4529787.1487112276894@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,I am not worried about meeting the 72 hr?requirement because I have an escape pod. ?If I do not make contact with my wife by a certain time, she contacts search and rescue. ?Search and rescue retrieve my surface radio and make contact with me. ?I will have the pod locked and loaded for a trip to the surface by the time they arrive. ? I would not be more than 12 hr waiting to leave the stranded sub.I am still going to slow the fan down, I think it might improve the scrubber performance and save valuable amps.Hank On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 2:56 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, ABS rules says your scrubber needs to operate for 72 hour past normal duty on the emergency battery bank.? The issue for me was initially I was using a strong blower which did great for keeping the CO2 ppm level low but pulled to much current so that with my 100 Ah emergency battery, I could not make the full time.? I went back and changed out the blower to one that pulled less current and was able to meet the requirement and still do a good job on CO2 concentration.. You might want to do test where you test your emergency battery bank endurance with the hotel load for current to make sure you meet this constraint.? Does not have to be a manned test. Cliff On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 2:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I just completed more scrubber testing.? With both scrubbers running and me breathing into the re-breather scrubber, I bottomed out a 508 ppm.? If I turn off the radial scrubber it starts to climb immediately.? If I stop breathing into the re-breather scrubber, the level rises immediately.? The re-breather has a fan running also.? The humidity level in Gamma is 66% and the temp is 15C .? My conclusion is that I need to increase the humidity level.? The humidity level in Gamma rose from 48% to 66% during the test.? Also at this temperature, Like Emile said, the radial scrubber needs to warm up of at least 15 minutes.? The re-breather scrubber with me breathing into it starts to work almost immediately.? I also think my fan is to fast on my radial scrubber at 24 V, I can run it on 12V and see what happens.? The radial filter did not slow the airflow as I expected.The speed control on the cooling\ circulation ? fan is an absolute dream.Hank On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 8:31 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just another comment regarding the cabin air - the temperature needs to be maintained within limits of 14?C to 30?C (57.2?F - 86?F).? Water vapour production is 1.81 kg (4 lb) per person per day.Sean On February 13, 2017 2:14:08 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the suggestions. I think I'll take Sean's advice & keep my humidity control device separate from the scrubber intake. Using another fan & directing air through a desiccant filter may be the way to go. Plenty of humidity in Auckland to experiment with, it's 92% at the moment. Alan Sent from my iPad On 14/02/2017, at 5:36 AM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I don't see what the aversion to using desiccant is. Silica gel desiccant are rechargeable, so wouldn't be expensive at all to utilize. After they are loaded with water and the indicator changes color, you simply bake it in an oven and it's good as new. Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or ! g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 15 08:17:08 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 13:17:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub launch musings Message-ID: <219B85F470BD7B39.9d6b2d02-251a-490a-9295-4883abae440f@mail.outlook.com> Some you know my day job is a parish pastor. That means I bury people. A lot of them over the years. Watching a truck unload a casket liner got me thinking: I wonder if something like this could launch a K350? Too tall for rural bridges? http://www.robertsvault.com/Traditional/index.html Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 15 12:01:47 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 12:01:47 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub launch musings In-Reply-To: <219B85F470BD7B39.9d6b2d02-251a-490a-9295-4883abae440f@mail.outlook.com> References: <219B85F470BD7B39.9d6b2d02-251a-490a-9295-4883abae440f@mail.outlook.com> Message-ID: That's a thought Brian. Another idea is to purchase a trailer used for delivering those large LPG tanks for home heating. Usually they have a gantry rig over a split axle so you can lower the tank (or sub) directly down. Seems like a great idea if not for the price. ~ Doug S. On 2/15/17, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Some you know my day job is a parish pastor. That means I bury people. A lot > of them over the years. Watching a truck unload a casket liner got me > thinking: I wonder if something like this could launch a K350? Too tall for > rural bridges? > > > http://www.robertsvault.com/Traditional/index.html > > > > > > > Get Outlook for Android > > > > > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 15 13:33:32 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 18:33:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance References: <1887439930.5084456.1487183612572.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1887439930.5084456.1487183612572@mail.yahoo.com> Sean,You were correct, I pre heated the sub to 20C and the performance improved, after 10 minutes or so the scrubber performance really improved. ?When I travel to my dive site, I will turn on the scrubber while the sub is hot inside and it can get warmed up before I dive. ?I put a PWM controller on the fan but it performs best at full speed.The new Radial scrubber alone keeps up just fine (1700 PPM ) with the sensor at the front of the sub and the circulation fan running about 1\4 throttle.I will likely need both scrubbers going with a passenger.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 15 14:42:05 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 19:42:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub launch musings In-Reply-To: <219B85F470BD7B39.9d6b2d02-251a-490a-9295-4883abae440f@mail.outlook.com> References: <219B85F470BD7B39.9d6b2d02-251a-490a-9295-4883abae440f@mail.outlook.com> Message-ID: <1947156160.17287.1487187725311@mail.yahoo.com> Hello Pastor Brian,I would have grave concerns about that undertaking.It would be a great option for launching off a dock,but the traditional trailer extension pole would getyou a lot deeper off a boat ramp.Alan From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 2:17 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub launch musings Some you know my day job is a parish pastor. That means I bury people. A lot of them over the years. Watching a truck unload a casket liner got me thinking: I wonder if something like this could launch a K350? Too tall for rural bridges? http://www.robertsvault.com/Traditional/index.html Get Outlook for Android _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 15 14:59:05 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 12:59:05 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: e4TdcwXRztQlPe4TecNvrp References: <1887439930.5084456.1487183612572.ref@mail.yahoo.com> e4TdcwXRztQlPe4TecNvrp Message-ID: <0e7a8edb-78b4-442d-8b51-2380f23f4860@email.android.com> Would applying a thin layer of insulation (e.g. Armaflex) to the inside of the hull be a feasible way of keeping the cabin temperature up over the course of a dive? Sean On February 15, 2017 11:33:32 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Sean,You were correct, I pre heated the sub to 20C and the performance >improved, after 10 minutes or so the scrubber performance really >improved. ?When I travel to my dive site, I will turn on the scrubber >while the sub is hot inside and it can get warmed up before I dive. ?I >put a PWM controller on the fan but it performs best at full speed.The >new Radial scrubber alone keeps up just fine (1700 PPM ) with the >sensor at the front of the sub and the circulation fan running about >1\4 throttle.I will likely need both scrubbers going with a >passenger.Hank > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 15 15:24:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 09:24:43 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <0e7a8edb-78b4-442d-8b51-2380f23f4860@email.android.com> References: <1887439930.5084456.1487183612572.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <0e7a8edb-78b4-442d-8b51-2380f23f4860@email.android.com> Message-ID: I wonder if there would be any merit in ducting air from the motor controllers to the scrubber fan. They would be the biggest source of heat in the sub & as well as heating the scrubber, they would be cooled by the air flow. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 16/02/2017, at 8:59 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Would applying a thin layer of insulation (e.g. Armaflex) to the inside of the hull be a feasible way of keeping the cabin temperature up over the course of a dive? > > Sean > > >> On February 15, 2017 11:33:32 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Sean, >> You were correct, I pre heated the sub to 20C and the performance improved, after 10 minutes or so the scrubber performance really improved. When I travel to my dive site, I will turn on the scrubber while the sub is hot inside and it can get warmed up before I dive. I put a PWM controller on the fan but it performs best at full speed. >> The new Radial scrubber alone keeps up just fine (1700 PPM ) with the sensor at the front of the sub and the circulation fan running about 1\4 throttle. >> I will likely need both scrubbers going with a passenger. >> Hank >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 15 15:27:41 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 12:27:41 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Message-ID: <20170215122741.266F83F@m0087797.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 15 15:34:39 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 20:34:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <1887439930.5084456.1487183612572@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1887439930.5084456.1487183612572.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1887439930.5084456.1487183612572@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1014984939.48441.1487190879889@mail.yahoo.com> I was going to ask you guys that very question, is it worth trying to keep the sub warm. ? ?My understanding is that the absorbent?actually generates heat. ?Maybe once it is going it is fine by generating its own heat. ??Hank On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 11:37 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean,You were correct, I pre heated the sub to 20C and the performance improved, after 10 minutes or so the scrubber performance really improved. ?When I travel to my dive site, I will turn on the scrubber while the sub is hot inside and it can get warmed up before I dive. ?I put a PWM controller on the fan but it performs best at full speed.The new Radial scrubber alone keeps up just fine (1700 PPM ) with the sensor at the front of the sub and the circulation fan running about 1\4 throttle.I will likely need both scrubbers going with a passenger.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 15 15:38:24 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 20:38:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <20170215122741.266F83F@m0087797.ppops.net> References: <20170215122741.266F83F@m0087797.ppops.net> Message-ID: <594039951.50425.1487191104753@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,I got mine from China on Ebay, it was around 150 dollars. ?Hank On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 1:27 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,???????????????? Where can I purchase one of those CO2 sensors?? and how much will it set me back ???? BTW, I'm starting to experience shop over load !?? There are so many aspects to a submarine it's almost like I need separate rooms to keep things organized !?? Cleaning the shop up once in a while is not a bad idea as well ;-)? ?Brian?? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 18:33:32 +0000 (UTC) Sean,You were correct, I pre heated the sub to 20C and the performance improved, after 10 minutes or so the scrubber performance really improved. ?When I travel to my dive site, I will turn on the scrubber while the sub is hot inside and it can get warmed up before I dive. ?I put a PWM controller on the fan but it performs best at full speed.The new Radial scrubber alone keeps up just fine (1700 PPM ) with the sensor at the front of the sub and the circulation fan running about 1\4 throttle.I will likely need both scrubbers going with a passenger.Hank_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 15 16:32:47 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 21:32:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation References: <498541400.107107.1487194367391.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <498541400.107107.1487194367391@mail.yahoo.com> I have just installed my two additional motors on Gamma that are mounted to the manipulator assembly borrowed from Elementary 3,000. ?To compensate them I used a single air cylinder 1.5 in bore with 4 in stroke as the compensation bladder. ?The cylinder is filled with light hydraulic oil and the motors are filled with WD40. ?There are hydraulic hoses connecting the cylinder to the two motors. ?I reversed one seal in each motor so the one seal keeps water out and one seal keeps oil in. ?There is a tiny bit of air in the system but that makes no difference because the cylinder piston has enough travel to compress the air. ?I think oil enters compensated motors because the oil spinning creates pressure from centrifugal force and the seals are oriented to keep water out. ?The oil can then escape, that is why I have turned one seal around. ?I will be testing in a month or so, and we will see, I guess.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 15 17:13:23 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 11:13:23 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation In-Reply-To: <498541400.107107.1487194367391@mail.yahoo.com> References: <498541400.107107.1487194367391.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <498541400.107107.1487194367391@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D13D72D-875F-40A3-BABC-7AEC1F3127E6@yahoo.com> Cunning plan Hank. So the cylinder is just really a bladder that keeps the motor fluid at ambient pressure! If you fitted an extension spring on the external rod to give a 4 or 5 psi overpressure you would have something akin to a commercial compensator! Even better, fit a spring of the correct strength internally. You could even fit a micro switch inside the cylinder to indicate low oil level, & maybe water ingress, & have the wiring run out one of the ports! I like this idea, will look in to it. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 16/02/2017, at 10:32 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I have just installed my two additional motors on Gamma that are mounted to the manipulator assembly borrowed from Elementary 3,000. To compensate them I used a single air cylinder 1.5 in bore with 4 in stroke as the compensation bladder. The cylinder is filled with light hydraulic oil and the motors are filled with WD40. There are hydraulic hoses connecting the cylinder to the two motors. I reversed one seal in each motor so the one seal keeps water out and one seal keeps oil in. There is a tiny bit of air in the system but that makes no difference because the cylinder piston has enough travel to compress the air. I think oil enters compensated motors because the oil spinning creates pressure from centrifugal force and the seals are oriented to keep water out. The oil can then escape, that is why I have turned one seal around. I will be testing in a month or so, and we will see, I guess. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 15 17:20:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 14:20:49 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation Message-ID: <20170215142049.24847C47@m0087792.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 15 17:25:32 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 22:25:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation In-Reply-To: <20170215142049.24847C47@m0087792.ppops.net> References: <20170215142049.24847C47@m0087792.ppops.net> Message-ID: <379694697.94173.1487197532349@mail.yahoo.com> Brian, The piston is mid way.Alan,I was going to install an internal spring to create internal pressure but I only have one seal oriented to keep oil in. ?I will try this first and see where it leads.I have tried this in the past on Gamma's prop shaft and it did not work- I am sure it is because of the seal orientation.Hank On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? where is the piston situated in the cylinder upon start up of?operation???? Half way ??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 21:32:47 +0000 (UTC) I have just installed my two additional motors on Gamma that are mounted to the manipulator assembly borrowed from Elementary 3,000. ?To compensate them I used a single air cylinder 1.5 in bore with 4 in stroke as the compensation bladder. ?The cylinder is filled with light hydraulic oil and the motors are filled with WD40. ?There are hydraulic hoses connecting the cylinder to the two motors. ?I reversed one seal in each motor so the one seal keeps water out and one seal keeps oil in. ?There is a tiny bit of air in the system but that makes no difference because the cylinder piston has enough travel to compress the air. ?I think oil enters compensated motors because the oil spinning creates pressure from centrifugal force and the seals are oriented to keep water out. ?The oil can then escape, that is why I have turned one seal around. ?I will be testing in a month or so, and we will see, I guess.Hank_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 15 17:30:37 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 22:30:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] battery size References: <1899143796.120596.1487197837365.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1899143796.120596.1487197837365@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,I have one damaged 225ah 6V AGM battery, it is in a set of two creating 12V. ?Due to the weak Canadian dollar and my sheer hatred for UPS, I can not get a matching battery without effecting my cheap gene. ?If I replace it with a 190ah affordable battery will there be a problem, or will I just reduce the max ah.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 15 17:43:55 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 11:43:55 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation In-Reply-To: <379694697.94173.1487197532349@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20170215142049.24847C47@m0087792.ppops.net> <379694697.94173.1487197532349@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3F6C0069-52AD-47CB-BCDE-256FC7B5D0D0@yahoo.com> Hank, in hindsight there is a problem in that when the external water pressure pushes on the rod & tries to make the piston move down the cylinder there is a vacuum created behind the cylinder that needs filling with oil. Not sure if that's the right terminology. If water can move in to that void through one of the ports, it would work. Or the rod & piston were the same diameter. You may have already thought through this. I encountered this when trying to compensate linear actuators. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 16/02/2017, at 11:25 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Brian, > > The piston is mid way. > Alan, > I was going to install an internal spring to create internal pressure but I only have one seal oriented to keep oil in. I will try this first and see where it leads. > I have tried this in the past on Gamma's prop shaft and it did not work- I am sure it is because of the seal orientation. > Hank > > > On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, where is the piston situated in the cylinder upon start up of operation ? Half way ? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation > Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 21:32:47 +0000 (UTC) > > I have just installed my two additional motors on Gamma that are mounted to the manipulator assembly borrowed from Elementary 3,000. To compensate them I used a single air cylinder 1.5 in bore with 4 in stroke as the compensation bladder. The cylinder is filled with light hydraulic oil and the motors are filled with WD40. There are hydraulic hoses connecting the cylinder to the two motors. I reversed one seal in each motor so the one seal keeps water out and one seal keeps oil in. There is a tiny bit of air in the system but that makes no difference because the cylinder piston has enough travel to compress the air. I think oil enters compensated motors because the oil spinning creates pressure from centrifugal force and the seals are oriented to keep water out. The oil can then escape, that is why I have turned one seal around. I will be testing in a month or so, and we will see, I guess. > Hank > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 15 18:03:20 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 15:03:20 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] battery size Message-ID: <20170215150320.2651428@m0087794.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 15 18:36:15 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 18:36:15 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub launch musings In-Reply-To: <1947156160.17287.1487187725311@mail.yahoo.com> References: <219B85F470BD7B39.9d6b2d02-251a-490a-9295-4883abae440f@mail.outlook.com> <1947156160.17287.1487187725311@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Great puns Alan! I agree that an extending trailer tongue is probably the most efficient way to go. Even then though, I've encountered a couple of instances where we just can't put Snoopy in the water because it stays too shallow too far out. Lately we've really been digging the idea of snoopy on boat on trailer for easy launch/recovery/water transit. ~ Doug On 2/15/17, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hello Pastor Brian,I would have grave concerns about that undertaking.It > would be a great option for launching off a dock,but the traditional trailer > extension pole would getyou a lot deeper off a boat ramp.Alan > > From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 2:17 AM > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub launch musings > > Some you know my day job is a parish pastor. That means I bury people. A lot > of them over the years. Watching a truck unload a casket liner got me > thinking: I wonder if something like this could launch a K350? Too tall for > rural bridges? http://www.robertsvault.com/Traditional/index.html > > Get Outlook for Android > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 15 18:57:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 12:57:56 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub launch musings In-Reply-To: References: <219B85F470BD7B39.9d6b2d02-251a-490a-9295-4883abae440f@mail.outlook.com> <1947156160.17287.1487187725311@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7DC1C0B1-23C1-4064-9939-44D05B3291C1@yahoo.com> Doug, it would save doubling up on transport if you required a support boat. However it would need to be quite a big boat & that may defeat the purpose of facilitating shallow launches. Another option might be to have inflatable pontoons or lift bags. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 16/02/2017, at 12:36 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Great puns Alan! I agree that an extending trailer tongue is probably > the most efficient way to go. Even then though, I've encountered a > couple of instances where we just can't put Snoopy in the water > because it stays too shallow too far out. Lately we've really been > digging the idea of snoopy on boat on trailer for easy > launch/recovery/water transit. ~ Doug > > On 2/15/17, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> Hello Pastor Brian,I would have grave concerns about that undertaking.It >> would be a great option for launching off a dock,but the traditional trailer >> extension pole would getyou a lot deeper off a boat ramp.Alan >> >> From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 2:17 AM >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub launch musings >> >> Some you know my day job is a parish pastor. That means I bury people. A lot >> of them over the years. Watching a truck unload a casket liner got me >> thinking: I wonder if something like this could launch a K350? Too tall for >> rural bridges? http://www.robertsvault.com/Traditional/index.html >> >> Get Outlook for Android >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 15 19:25:22 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 00:25:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation In-Reply-To: <3F6C0069-52AD-47CB-BCDE-256FC7B5D0D0@yahoo.com> References: <20170215142049.24847C47@m0087792.ppops.net> <379694697.94173.1487197532349@mail.yahoo.com> <3F6C0069-52AD-47CB-BCDE-256FC7B5D0D0@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <961537914.190864.1487204722700@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,The port is open to the water and acts on the piston directly.Hank On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:44 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,in hindsight there is a problem in that when the external water pressurepushes on the rod & tries to make the piston move down the cylinderthere is a vacuum created behind the cylinder that needs filling with oil.Not sure if that's the right terminology.If water can move in to that void through one of the ports, it would work.?Or the rod & piston were the same diameter. You may have already thought?through this. I encountered this when trying to compensate linear actuators.Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/02/2017, at 11:25 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian, The piston is mid way.Alan,I was going to install an internal spring to create internal pressure but I only have one seal oriented to keep oil in. ?I will try this first and see where it leads.I have tried this in the past on Gamma's prop shaft and it did not work- I am sure it is because of the seal orientation.Hank On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? where is the piston situated in the cylinder upon start up of?operation???? Half way ??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 21:32:47 +0000 (UTC) I have just installed my two additional motors on Gamma that are mounted to the manipulator assembly borrowed from Elementary 3,000. ?To compensate them I used a single air cylinder 1.5 in bore with 4 in stroke as the compensation bladder. ?The cylinder is filled with light hydraulic oil and the motors are filled with WD40. ?There are hydraulic hoses connecting the cylinder to the two motors. ?I reversed one seal in each motor so the one seal keeps water out and one seal keeps oil in. ?There is a tiny bit of air in the system but that makes no difference because the cylinder piston has enough travel to compress the air. ?I think oil enters compensated motors because the oil spinning creates pressure from centrifugal force and the seals are oriented to keep water out. ?The oil can then escape, that is why I have turned one seal around. ?I will be testing in a month or so, and we will see, I guess.Hank_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 15 19:28:28 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 00:28:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <826877082.192792.1487204908629@mail.yahoo.com> Brian, these are the batteriesHank On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 5:27 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: http://www.ebay.com/itm/6Volt-Golf-Cart-Batteries-QTY8-48V-AGM-6-Volt-235AH-VMAX-XTR6-Maint-free-6V-/301751336469?hash=item4641c7fe15:g:q9sAAOSwjVVVlAE~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2017-02-15 at 5.27 PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 8134 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 15 19:33:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 17:33:53 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: e6MRcScV6ZDDke6MScuTBa References: <1887439930.5084456.1487183612572.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1887439930.5084456.1487183612572@mail.yahoo.com> e6MRcScV6ZDDke6MScuTBa Message-ID: <4993e8ba-5850-4445-934d-bc659ecd0c96@email.android.com> I don't think it will generate as much heat as you think. Yes, the reaction is exothermic, which helps make the scrubber efficient, but once the scrubbed air returns to the cabin, that heat is lost to the surroundings very quickly. Certainly, I wouldn't expect it to approach the same magnitude as the metabolic heat produced by the occupant(s), plus whatever your electronics are putting out. Have you measured your cabin temperature over the course of a dive in cold water? Sean On February 15, 2017 1:34:39 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >I was going to ask you guys that very question, is it worth trying to >keep the sub warm. ? ?My understanding is that the absorbent?actually >generates heat. ?Maybe once it is going it is fine by generating its >own heat. ??Hank > >On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 11:37 AM, hank pronk via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Sean,You were correct, I pre heated the sub to 20C and the performance >improved, after 10 minutes or so the scrubber performance really >improved. ?When I travel to my dive site, I will turn on the scrubber >while the sub is hot inside and it can get warmed up before I dive. ?I >put a PWM controller on the fan but it performs best at full speed.The >new Radial scrubber alone keeps up just fine (1700 PPM ) with the >sensor at the front of the sub and the circulation fan running about >1\4 throttle.I will likely need both scrubbers going with a >passenger.Hank >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 15 19:41:15 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 00:41:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <4993e8ba-5850-4445-934d-bc659ecd0c96@email.android.com> References: <1887439930.5084456.1487183612572.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1887439930.5084456.1487183612572@mail.yahoo.com> <4993e8ba-5850-4445-934d-bc659ecd0c96@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1574976583.193237.1487205675253@mail.yahoo.com> Sean,I can not remember the temperature over the?length of a typical dive. ?I would estimate 10C after 1\2 hr at 100 feet. ? When I dive Kootenay ?lake it is probably 5C?I wonder how DW's manage, they dive all over the world and I am sure in the winter.Hank On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 5:34 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I don't think it will generate as much heat as you think. Yes, the reaction is exothermic, which helps make the scrubber efficient, but once the scrubbed air returns to the cabin, that heat is lost to the surroundings very quickly. Certainly, I wouldn't expect it to approach the same magnitude as the metabolic heat produced by the occupant(s), plus whatever your electronics are putting out. Have you measured your cabin temperature over the course of a dive in cold water?Sean On February 15, 2017 1:34:39 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I was going to ask you guys that very question, is it worth trying to keep the sub warm. ? ?My understanding is that the absorbent?actually generates heat. ?Maybe once it is going it is fine by generating its own heat. ??Hank On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 11:37 AM, ! hankpronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean,You were correct, I pre heated the sub to 20C and the performance improved, after 10 minutes or so the scrubber performance really improved. ?When I travel to my dive site, I will turn on the scrubber while the sub is hot inside and it can get warmed up before I dive. ?I put a PWM controller on the fan but it performs best at full speed.The new Radial scrubber alone keeps up just fine (1700 PPM ) with the sensor at the front of the sub and the circulation fan! runningabout 1\4 throttle.I will likely need both scrubbers going with a passenger.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 15 20:40:19 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 01:40:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub launch musings Message-ID: <219B85F470BD7B39.659bb173-fb46-4329-9cb2-43f05e87e470@mail.outlook.com> Or ... an A frame crane mounted on the back of a flatbed. Can you back down a ramp far enough for sufficient water when swinging it off the back? I like the idea of one vehicle for travel. Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 15 23:15:08 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 20:15:08 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub launch musings In-Reply-To: e9TGcfLoGym4se9TIcXujk References: <219B85F470BD7B39.9d6b2d02-251a-490a-9295-4883abae440f@mail.outlook.com> <1947156160.17287.1487187725311@mail.yahoo.com> e9TGcfLoGym4se9TIcXujk Message-ID: <009a01d2880b$435cd1e0$ca1675a0$@telus.net> Hmmm, does Roberts Vault Co make pressure hulls? From their regular product line it looks like they have the ability to do so. -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:58 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub launch musings Doug, it would save doubling up on transport if you required a support boat. However it would need to be quite a big boat & that may defeat the purpose of facilitating shallow launches. Another option might be to have inflatable pontoons or lift bags. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 16/02/2017, at 12:36 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Great puns Alan! I agree that an extending trailer tongue is probably > the most efficient way to go. Even then though, I've encountered a > couple of instances where we just can't put Snoopy in the water > because it stays too shallow too far out. Lately we've really been > digging the idea of snoopy on boat on trailer for easy > launch/recovery/water transit. ~ Doug > > On 2/15/17, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> Hello Pastor Brian,I would have grave concerns about that >> undertaking.It would be a great option for launching off a dock,but >> the traditional trailer extension pole would getyou a lot deeper off >> a boat ramp.Alan >> >> From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 2:17 AM >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub launch musings >> >> Some you know my day job is a parish pastor. That means I bury >> people. A lot of them over the years. Watching a truck unload a >> casket liner got me >> thinking: I wonder if something like this could launch a K350? Too >> tall for rural bridges? >> http://www.robertsvault.com/Traditional/index.html >> >> Get Outlook for Android >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 15 23:25:08 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 20:25:08 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub launch musings In-Reply-To: eB4Tcg3dgym4seB4UcYVLV References: eB4Tcg3dgym4seB4UcYVLV Message-ID: <009b01d2880c$a8c98590$fa5c90b0$@telus.net> The A-frame crane would not likely have sufficient reach. They usually are used on board ships to lift a sub out over the transom. The same with knuckle boom cranes, like the ones used to launch the Mir twins. These are used just to launch over the side of the ship. Hank has it right with a barge mounted crane. The barge can be launched in much shallower water while holding the sub than the sub launched alone. With a pontoon or moon pool barge even a gantry crane would work. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 5:40 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub launch musings Or ... an A frame crane mounted on the back of a flatbed. Can you back down a ramp far enough for sufficient water when swinging it off the back? I like the idea of one vehicle for travel. Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 16 03:02:38 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 03:02:38 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub launch musings In-Reply-To: <009b01d2880c$a8c98590$fa5c90b0$@telus.net> References: <009b01d2880c$a8c98590$fa5c90b0$@telus.net> Message-ID: I'm quite keen on a small pontoon gantry design that will launch and recover with limited draught, provide plenty of flotation and stability for entry/egress from the sub and would reduce transit time to and from remote dive sites. I'm working on a design that will telescope horizontally, thus facilitating a variable breadth of the 'toons (for added stability on water, ease of travel on road). Still, I'm afraid open ocean operations will remain a formidable challenge. ~ Doug On 2/15/17, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > The A-frame crane would not likely have sufficient reach. They usually are > used on board ships to lift a sub out over the transom. The same with > knuckle boom cranes, like the ones used to launch the Mir twins. These are > used just to launch over the side of the ship. > > > > Hank has it right with a barge mounted crane. The barge can be launched in > much shallower water while holding the sub than the sub launched alone. > With a pontoon or moon pool barge even a gantry crane would work. > > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 5:40 PM > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub launch musings > > > > Or ... an A frame crane mounted on the back of a flatbed. Can you back down > a ramp far enough for sufficient water when swinging it off the back? I like > the idea of one vehicle for travel. > > Get Outlook for Android > > > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 16 06:38:12 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 11:38:12 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub launch musings In-Reply-To: References: <009b01d2880c$a8c98590$fa5c90b0$@telus.net> Message-ID: I have always thought a skip truck would be good. Imagine K boat instead of skip... And you can get smaller skip trucks than this. I measured one and a K would fit. ? On 16 February 2017 at 08:02, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I'm quite keen on a small pontoon gantry design that will launch and > recover with limited draught, provide plenty of flotation and > stability for entry/egress from the sub and would reduce transit time > to and from remote dive sites. I'm working on a design that will > telescope horizontally, thus facilitating a variable breadth of the > 'toons (for added stability on water, ease of travel on road). Still, > I'm afraid open ocean operations will remain a formidable challenge. ~ > Doug > > On 2/15/17, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > The A-frame crane would not likely have sufficient reach. They usually > are > > used on board ships to lift a sub out over the transom. The same with > > knuckle boom cranes, like the ones used to launch the Mir twins. These > are > > used just to launch over the side of the ship. > > > > > > > > Hank has it right with a barge mounted crane. The barge can be launched > in > > much shallower water while holding the sub than the sub launched alone. > > With a pontoon or moon pool barge even a gantry crane would work. > > > > > > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] > > On Behalf Of Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles > > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 5:40 PM > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub launch musings > > > > > > > > Or ... an A frame crane mounted on the back of a flatbed. Can you back > down > > a ramp far enough for sufficient water when swinging it off the back? I > like > > the idea of one vehicle for travel. > > > > Get Outlook for Android > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: River-Skimmer-Skip-Barge-Unloading-Truck-Dockside.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 56415 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 16 17:11:45 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 22:11:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure compensator References: <281925777.876174.1487283105047.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <281925777.876174.1487283105047@mail.yahoo.com> Wonder if something like the attached image of a spray paint pot would work, with modifications, as a pressure compensator.Machine a plastic piston to fit inside with o-ring grooves & a recess to encapsulate a spring. Drill holes in the cap to let water in.Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 16 21:34:31 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 02:34:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation In-Reply-To: <961537914.190864.1487204722700@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20170215142049.24847C47@m0087792.ppops.net> <379694697.94173.1487197532349@mail.yahoo.com> <3F6C0069-52AD-47CB-BCDE-256FC7B5D0D0@yahoo.com> <961537914.190864.1487204722700@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1594434781.1079994.1487298871515@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,why waste a good pneumatic cylinder when you can haveone of these. (sauce syringe) All you need is a stainless spring to put inside it foroverpressure, a compatible hose fitting, & maybe replace the pistono-ring. I have only seen them up to 100ml in volume & aren't sure whether that would be enough.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation Alan,The port is open to the water and acts on the piston directly.Hank On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:44 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,in hindsight there is a problem in that when the external water pressurepushes on the rod & tries to make the piston move down the cylinderthere is a vacuum created behind the cylinder that needs filling with oil.Not sure if that's the right terminology.If water can move in to that void through one of the ports, it would work.?Or the rod & piston were the same diameter. You may have already thought?through this. I encountered this when trying to compensate linear actuators.Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/02/2017, at 11:25 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian, The piston is mid way.Alan,I was going to install an internal spring to create internal pressure but I only have one seal oriented to keep oil in. ?I will try this first and see where it leads.I have tried this in the past on Gamma's prop shaft and it did not work- I am sure it is because of the seal orientation.Hank On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? where is the piston situated in the cylinder upon start up of?operation???? Half way ??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 21:32:47 +0000 (UTC) I have just installed my two additional motors on Gamma that are mounted to the manipulator assembly borrowed from Elementary 3,000. ?To compensate them I used a single air cylinder 1.5 in bore with 4 in stroke as the compensation bladder. ?The cylinder is filled with light hydraulic oil and the motors are filled with WD40. ?There are hydraulic hoses connecting the cylinder to the two motors. ?I reversed one seal in each motor so the one seal keeps water out and one seal keeps oil in. ?There is a tiny bit of air in the system but that makes no difference because the cylinder piston has enough travel to compress the air. ?I think oil enters compensated motors because the oil spinning creates pressure from centrifugal force and the seals are oriented to keep water out. ?The oil can then escape, that is why I have turned one seal around. ?I will be testing in a month or so, and we will see, I guess.Hank_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 16 22:36:40 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 19:36:40 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation Message-ID: <20170216193640.265AC3D@m0087794.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 16 23:57:40 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 04:57:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation In-Reply-To: <20170216193640.265AC3D@m0087794.ppops.net> References: <20170216193640.265AC3D@m0087794.ppops.net> Message-ID: <571008778.1155009.1487307460775@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,yes true, but if I can?hack something that's already out thereall the better.?That's what Hank is doing with his pneumaticcylinder. The screw cap?on the items I posted is?an advantage for filling& retaining the spring, but would be a pain to make. Those professionally manufactured?compensators cost a fortune.Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation Alan,?? You could probably make a plexi glass unit like that, you could machine a aluminum disk for the piston.? You would be able to observe what is happening! ??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 02:34:31 +0000 (UTC) Hank,why waste a good pneumatic cylinder when you can haveone of these. (sauce syringe) All you need is a stainless spring to put inside it foroverpressure, a compatible hose fitting, & maybe replace the pistono-ring. I have only seen them up to 100ml in volume & aren't sure whether that would be enough.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation Alan,The port is open to the water and acts on the piston directly.Hank On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:44 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,in hindsight there is a problem in that when the external water pressurepushes on the rod & tries to make the piston move down the cylinderthere is a vacuum created behind the cylinder that needs filling with oil.Not sure if that's the right terminology.If water can move in to that void through one of the ports, it would work.?Or the rod & piston were the same diameter. You may have already thought?through this. I encountered this when trying to compensate linear actuators.Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/02/2017, at 11:25 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian, The piston is mid way.Alan,I was going to install an internal spring to create internal pressure but I only have one seal oriented to keep oil in. ?I will try this first and see where it leads.I have tried this in the past on Gamma's prop shaft and it did not work- I am sure it is because of the seal orientation.Hank On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? where is the piston situated in the cylinder upon start up of?operation???? Half way ??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 21:32:47 +0000 (UTC) I have just installed my two additional motors on Gamma that are mounted to the manipulator assembly borrowed from Elementary 3,000. ?To compensate them I used a single air cylinder 1.5 in bore with 4 in stroke as the compensation bladder. ?The cylinder is filled with light hydraulic oil and the motors are filled with WD40. ?There are hydraulic hoses connecting the cylinder to the two motors. ?I reversed one seal in each motor so the one seal keeps water out and one seal keeps oil in. ?There is a tiny bit of air in the system but that makes no difference because the cylinder piston has enough travel to compress the air. ?I think oil enters compensated motors because the oil spinning creates pressure from centrifugal force and the seals are oriented to keep water out. ?The oil can then escape, that is why I have turned one seal around. ?I will be testing in a month or so, and we will see, I guess.Hank_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 17 06:25:52 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 11:25:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation In-Reply-To: <1594434781.1079994.1487298871515@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20170215142049.24847C47@m0087792.ppops.net> <379694697.94173.1487197532349@mail.yahoo.com> <3F6C0069-52AD-47CB-BCDE-256FC7B5D0D0@yahoo.com> <961537914.190864.1487204722700@mail.yahoo.com> <1594434781.1079994.1487298871515@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1555048603.1150628.1487330752295@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I didn't wast a cylinder, I made a compensator for under 40 dollars. ?The whole project took about an hr including making a bracket to hold the compensator in place. ?The most time consuming part was filling it with oil. ?That was easy also ?because the motors have two ports, one for filling and connecting the hose and one for venting air.?Hank On Thursday, February 16, 2017 7:34 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,why waste a good pneumatic cylinder when you can haveone of these. (sauce syringe) All you need is a stainless spring to put inside it foroverpressure, a compatible hose fitting, & maybe replace the pistono-ring. I have only seen them up to 100ml in volume & aren't sure whether that would be enough.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation Alan,The port is open to the water and acts on the piston directly.Hank On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:44 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,in hindsight there is a problem in that when the external water pressurepushes on the rod & tries to make the piston move down the cylinderthere is a vacuum created behind the cylinder that needs filling with oil.Not sure if that's the right terminology.If water can move in to that void through one of the ports, it would work.?Or the rod & piston were the same diameter. You may have already thought?through this. I encountered this when trying to compensate linear actuators.Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/02/2017, at 11:25 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian, The piston is mid way.Alan,I was going to install an internal spring to create internal pressure but I only have one seal oriented to keep oil in. ?I will try this first and see where it leads.I have tried this in the past on Gamma's prop shaft and it did not work- I am sure it is because of the seal orientation.Hank On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? where is the piston situated in the cylinder upon start up of?operation???? Half way ??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 21:32:47 +0000 (UTC) I have just installed my two additional motors on Gamma that are mounted to the manipulator assembly borrowed from Elementary 3,000. ?To compensate them I used a single air cylinder 1.5 in bore with 4 in stroke as the compensation bladder. ?The cylinder is filled with light hydraulic oil and the motors are filled with WD40. ?There are hydraulic hoses connecting the cylinder to the two motors. ?I reversed one seal in each motor so the one seal keeps water out and one seal keeps oil in. ?There is a tiny bit of air in the system but that makes no difference because the cylinder piston has enough travel to compress the air. ?I think oil enters compensated motors because the oil spinning creates pressure from centrifugal force and the seals are oriented to keep water out. ?The oil can then escape, that is why I have turned one seal around. ?I will be testing in a month or so, and we will see, I guess.Hank_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 17 10:43:19 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 08:43:19 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <4993e8ba-5850-4445-934d-bc659ecd0c96@email.android.com> References: <1887439930.5084456.1487183612572.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1887439930.5084456.1487183612572@mail.yahoo.com> <4993e8ba-5850-4445-934d-bc659ecd0c96@email.android.com> Message-ID: <58A71A17.5060809@telus.net> I don't recall seeing insulation in the DW2000 either. Perhaps Phil will chime in on this? It is possible that being so compact, the surface area of the DW hull is small enough that the contained heat loads can keep up to the moisture production. Also, those are certified through GL, and as such may have different requirements than ABS's 30% - 70% RH. Can anyone speak to the GL rules on this? I can't see avoiding a 100 % RH environment, and the consequent condensation, when submerged in 5?C water without either insulating or employing dessicants to remove the moisture. Immediately next to the hull, it will always be colder, so you may get condensation on the hull despite being within humidity limits on the cabin air on average. I was thinking that a cylindrical pressure hull would be relatively simple to insulate though, with something like AP Armaflex sheet material. You wouldn't even necessarily need to apply at 100% coverage, but rather just enough to reduce the heat loss to meet the 70% RH limit at whatever your cabin temperature is. (14?C - 30?C are the recommended temperature limits, but that's not actually a rule under ABS UWVS). Insulating just the large cylindrical surfaces between frames might be sufficient. In my own design, insulation is a necessity - otherwise I won't be able to keep my coffee hot. Sean On 2017-02-15 17:41, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sean, > I can not remember the temperature over the length of a typical dive. > I would estimate 10C after 1\2 hr at 100 feet. When I dive Kootenay > lake it is probably 5C > I wonder how DW's manage, they dive all over the world and I am sure > in the winter. > Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 17 12:27:16 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 17:27:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <58A71A17.5060809@telus.net> References: <1887439930.5084456.1487183612572.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1887439930.5084456.1487183612572@mail.yahoo.com> <4993e8ba-5850-4445-934d-bc659ecd0c96@email.android.com> <58A71A17.5060809@telus.net> Message-ID: <663920607.1354937.1487352436105@mail.yahoo.com> I don't think insulation is needed, based on the fact that Gamma never has had insulation. ?Gamma did a dive mission in Alaska where it would have been an issue. ?I also think that the absorbent exothermic reaction produces its own heat. ?I know you mentioned that the cool air flow would negate that effect. ?I think the exothermic reaction may start at the core of the granules and the heat moves outward, that in conjunction with the fact that there is a thick?layer of granules acting as insulation, this will keep it warm enough to maintain efficiency. ?The cool airflow will of coarse reduce the temperature, but it likely stays warm enough. ?The proof is in the fact that the scrubber works at very low temperatures with cool air flow. ?The performance improves after a period of warm up time, that means the absorbent is increasing in temperature despite the cold environment. ?Surprisingly, Gamma is not a big old sweaty sub, there is not a lot of water forming on the hull, and only seldom do I have to wipe the ports\dome from fog. ?Usually shortly after I am at the bottom do I need to give a wipe and only once. ?I would conclude that since there is only one body of air, the moisture is?released right away and that is the end of it. ?Also doesn't the scrubber use up moisture - I thought I read an article by Dr Nuytten that said a submarine was an ideal environment for a absorbent based scrubber. ? Also I am guessing at the temperatures, I will make a point of recording temps and Humidity levels.A word of advice, don't drink coffee in your sub after age 50, you will need to pee often. ?You could sail right over the treasure chest fumbling for the PRBHank On Friday, February 17, 2017 8:43 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I don't recall seeing insulation in the DW2000 either.? Perhaps Phil will chime in on this?? It is possible that being so compact, the surface area of the DW hull is small enough that the contained heat loads can keep up to the moisture production.? Also, those are certified through GL, and as such may have different requirements than ABS's 30% - 70% RH.? Can anyone speak to the GL rules on this?? I can't see avoiding a 100 % RH environment, and the consequent condensation, when submerged in 5?C water without either insulating or employing dessicants to remove the moisture.? Immediately next to the hull, it will always be colder, so you may get condensation on the hull despite being within humidity limits on the cabin air on average.? I was thinking that a cylindrical pressure hull would be relatively simple to insulate though, with something like AP Armaflex sheet material.? You wouldn't even necessarily need to apply at 100% coverage, but rather just enough to reduce the heat loss to meet the 70% RH limit at whatever your cabin temperature is. (14?C - 30?C are the recommended temperature limits, but that's not actually a rule under ABS UWVS). Insulating just the large cylindrical surfaces between frames might be sufficient.? In my own design, insulation is a necessity - otherwise I won't be able to keep my coffee hot. Sean On 2017-02-15 17:41, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean, I can not remember the temperature over the?length of a typical dive. ?I would estimate 10C after 1\2 hr at 100 feet. ? When I dive Kootenay ?lake it is probably 5C? I wonder how DW's manage, they dive all over the world and I am sure in the winter. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 17 12:37:04 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 07:37:04 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <58A71A17.5060809@telus.net> References: <1887439930.5084456.1487183612572.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1887439930.5084456.1487183612572@mail.yahoo.com> <4993e8ba-5850-4445-934d-bc659ecd0c96@email.android.com> <58A71A17.5060809@telus.net> Message-ID: If I have a good 02 and C02 sensor, should I still have an altimeter and how would I base the altimeter reading for adding 02? Rick On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 5:43 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I don't recall seeing insulation in the DW2000 either. Perhaps Phil will > chime in on this? It is possible that being so compact, the surface area > of the DW hull is small enough that the contained heat loads can keep up to > the moisture production. Also, those are certified through GL, and as such > may have different requirements than ABS's 30% - 70% RH. Can anyone speak > to the GL rules on this? I can't see avoiding a 100 % RH environment, and > the consequent condensation, when submerged in 5?C water without either > insulating or employing dessicants to remove the moisture. Immediately > next to the hull, it will always be colder, so you may get condensation on > the hull despite being within humidity limits on the cabin air on average. > I was thinking that a cylindrical pressure hull would be relatively simple > to insulate though, with something like AP Armaflex sheet material. You > wouldn't even necessarily need to apply at 100% coverage, but rather just > enough to reduce the heat loss to meet the 70% RH limit at whatever your > cabin temperature is. (14?C - 30?C are the recommended temperature limits, > but that's not actually a rule under ABS UWVS). Insulating just the large > cylindrical surfaces between frames might be sufficient. In my own design, > insulation is a necessity - otherwise I won't be able to keep my coffee hot. > > Sean > > > On 2017-02-15 17:41, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Sean, > I can not remember the temperature over the length of a typical dive. I > would estimate 10C after 1\2 hr at 100 feet. When I dive Kootenay lake > it is probably 5C > I wonder how DW's manage, they dive all over the world and I am sure in > the winter. > Hank > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 17 12:54:23 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 17:54:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: References: <1887439930.5084456.1487183612572.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1887439930.5084456.1487183612572@mail.yahoo.com> <4993e8ba-5850-4445-934d-bc659ecd0c96@email.android.com> <58A71A17.5060809@telus.net> Message-ID: <1647571481.1335573.1487354063281@mail.yahoo.com> Rick,An altimeter is still a good idea, I think anyways. ?First it will let you know if you have an over or under ?pressure and it will never let you down, like electronics can. ?The altimeter will verify what your instruments are telling you. ?If your altitude is going up then your pressure is dropping witch means you add O2 . ?If your altitude is dropping then your pressure is increasing witch means you are either adding to much O2 or your scrubber is not keeping up. ?Relying on just an altimeter in not good either because you can get pressure changes from temperature changes. ?The sub will drop in temperature in ?cold water when you sink, that will cause a drop in pressure witch has nothing to do with environmental control. ?Hank On Friday, February 17, 2017 10:37 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: If I have a good 02 and C02 sensor, should I still have an altimeter and how would I base the altimeter reading for adding 02?? Rick On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 5:43 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I don't recall seeing insulation in the DW2000 either.? Perhaps Phil will chime in on this?? It is possible that being so compact, the surface area of the DW hull is small enough that the contained heat loads can keep up to the moisture production.? Also, those are certified through GL, and as such may have different requirements than ABS's 30% - 70% RH.? Can anyone speak to the GL rules on this?? I can't see avoiding a 100 % RH environment, and the consequent condensation, when submerged in 5?C water without either insulating or employing dessicants to remove the moisture.? Immediately next to the hull, it will always be colder, so you may get condensation on the hull despite being within humidity limits on the cabin air on average.? I was thinking that a cylindrical pressure hull would be relatively simple to insulate though, with something like AP Armaflex sheet material.? You wouldn't even necessarily need to apply at 100% coverage, but rather just enough to reduce the heat loss to meet the 70% RH limit at whatever your cabin temperature is. (14?C - 30?C are the recommended temperature limits, but that's not actually a rule under ABS UWVS). Insulating just the large cylindrical surfaces between frames might be sufficient.? In my own design, insulation is a necessity - otherwise I won't be able to keep my coffee hot. Sean On 2017-02-15 17:41, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean, I can not remember the temperature over the?length of a typical dive.? I would estimate 10C after 1\2 hr at 100 feet. ? When I dive Kootenay ?lake it is probably 5C? I wonder how DW's manage, they dive all over the world and I am sure in the winter. Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 17 13:09:13 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 08:09:13 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <1647571481.1335573.1487354063281@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1887439930.5084456.1487183612572.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1887439930.5084456.1487183612572@mail.yahoo.com> <4993e8ba-5850-4445-934d-bc659ecd0c96@email.android.com> <58A71A17.5060809@telus.net> <1647571481.1335573.1487354063281@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sounds good Hank. I agree the more redundancy the better when it comes to life support. Any specific type recommended? Rick On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 7:54 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > An altimeter is still a good idea, I think anyways. First it will let you > know if you have an over or under pressure and it will never let you down, > like electronics can. The altimeter will verify what your instruments are > telling you. If your altitude is going up then your pressure is dropping > witch means you add O2 . If your altitude is dropping then your pressure > is increasing witch means you are either adding to much O2 or your scrubber > is not keeping up. Relying on just an altimeter in not good either because > you can get pressure changes from temperature changes. The sub will drop > in temperature in cold water when you sink, that will cause a drop in > pressure witch has nothing to do with environmental control. > Hank > > > On Friday, February 17, 2017 10:37 AM, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > If I have a good 02 and C02 sensor, should I still have an altimeter and > how would I base the altimeter reading for adding 02? > > Rick > > On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 5:43 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I don't recall seeing insulation in the DW2000 either. Perhaps Phil will > chime in on this? It is possible that being so compact, the surface area > of the DW hull is small enough that the contained heat loads can keep up to > the moisture production. Also, those are certified through GL, and as such > may have different requirements than ABS's 30% - 70% RH. Can anyone speak > to the GL rules on this? I can't see avoiding a 100 % RH environment, and > the consequent condensation, when submerged in 5?C water without either > insulating or employing dessicants to remove the moisture. Immediately > next to the hull, it will always be colder, so you may get condensation on > the hull despite being within humidity limits on the cabin air on average. > I was thinking that a cylindrical pressure hull would be relatively simple > to insulate though, with something like AP Armaflex sheet material. You > wouldn't even necessarily need to apply at 100% coverage, but rather just > enough to reduce the heat loss to meet the 70% RH limit at whatever your > cabin temperature is. (14?C - 30?C are the recommended temperature limits, > but that's not actually a rule under ABS UWVS). Insulating just the large > cylindrical surfaces between frames might be sufficient. In my own design, > insulation is a necessity - otherwise I won't be able to keep my coffee hot. > > Sean > > > On 2017-02-15 17:41, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Sean, > I can not remember the temperature over the length of a typical dive. I > would estimate 10C after 1\2 hr at 100 feet. When I dive Kootenay lake > it is probably 5C > I wonder how DW's manage, they dive all over the world and I am sure in > the winter. > Hank > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 17 13:13:11 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 18:13:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: References: <1887439930.5084456.1487183612572.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1887439930.5084456.1487183612572@mail.yahoo.com> <4993e8ba-5850-4445-934d-bc659ecd0c96@email.android.com> <58A71A17.5060809@telus.net> <1647571481.1335573.1487354063281@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <147657486.1355016.1487355191130@mail.yahoo.com> Rick,I have an old school aircraft altimeter, BUT most people are going with sky diving ?altimeters and they even go so far as having stickers made to go on the face plate that indicates add or reduce O2. ?Think Alec has the details on that. ?Hank On Friday, February 17, 2017 11:09 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sounds good Hank. I agree the more redundancy the better when it comes to life support. Any specific type recommended?? Rick? On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 7:54 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick,An altimeter is still a good idea, I think anyways.? First it will let you know if you have an over or under ?pressure and it will never let you down, like electronics can.? The altimeter will verify what your instruments are telling you.? If your altitude is going up then your pressure is dropping witch means you add O2 .? If your altitude is dropping then your pressure is increasing witch means you are either adding to much O2 or your scrubber is not keeping up.? Relying on just an altimeter in not good either because you can get pressure changes from temperature changes.? The sub will drop in temperature in ?cold water when you sink, that will cause a drop in pressure witch has nothing to do with environmental control. ?Hank On Friday, February 17, 2017 10:37 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: If I have a good 02 and C02 sensor, should I still have an altimeter and how would I base the altimeter reading for adding 02?? Rick On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 5:43 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I don't recall seeing insulation in the DW2000 either.? Perhaps Phil will chime in on this?? It is possible that being so compact, the surface area of the DW hull is small enough that the contained heat loads can keep up to the moisture production.? Also, those are certified through GL, and as such may have different requirements than ABS's 30% - 70% RH.? Can anyone speak to the GL rules on this?? I can't see avoiding a 100 % RH environment, and the consequent condensation, when submerged in 5?C water without either insulating or employing dessicants to remove the moisture.? Immediately next to the hull, it will always be colder, so you may get condensation on the hull despite being within humidity limits on the cabin air on average.? I was thinking that a cylindrical pressure hull would be relatively simple to insulate though, with something like AP Armaflex sheet material.? You wouldn't even necessarily need to apply at 100% coverage, but rather just enough to reduce the heat loss to meet the 70% RH limit at whatever your cabin temperature is. (14?C - 30?C are the recommended temperature limits, but that's not actually a rule under ABS UWVS). Insulating just the large cylindrical surfaces between frames might be sufficient.? In my own design, insulation is a necessity - otherwise I won't be able to keep my coffee hot. Sean On 2017-02-15 17:41, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean, I can not remember the temperature over the?length of a typical dive.? I would estimate 10C after 1\2 hr at 100 feet. ? When I dive Kootenay ?lake it is probably 5C? I wonder how DW's manage, they dive all over the world and I am sure in the winter. Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 17 15:03:13 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 12:03:13 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation Message-ID: <20170217120313.4D85980B@m0087793.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 17 16:18:41 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 21:18:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation In-Reply-To: <20170217120313.4D85980B@m0087793.ppops.net> References: <20170217120313.4D85980B@m0087793.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1195328377.1535221.1487366321961@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,Don't be tempted to use plastic for anything with a piston. ?The plastic will absorb water and change size, your piston will get stuck.Hank On Friday, February 17, 2017 1:03 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,??????? I was thinking it would be easy to make a compensator just using a pvc pipe and then machine a delron disk ( you wouldn't need the piston rod)? with a o ring , the disk could move freely inside the pvc pipe and the pvc pipe would?give?you the ability to glue fittings?on the ends which would give you a threaded connection to attach a hose line to.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 04:57:40 +0000 (UTC) Brian,yes true, but if I can?hack something that's already out thereall the better.?That's what Hank is doing with his pneumaticcylinder. The screw cap?on the items I posted is?an advantage for filling& retaining the spring, but would be a pain to make. Those professionally manufactured?compensators cost a fortune.Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation Alan,?? You could probably make a plexi glass unit like that, you could machine a aluminum disk for the piston.? You would be able to observe what is happening! ??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 02:34:31 +0000 (UTC) Hank,why waste a good pneumatic cylinder when you can haveone of these. (sauce syringe) All you need is a stainless spring to put inside it foroverpressure, a compatible hose fitting, & maybe replace the pistono-ring. I have only seen them up to 100ml in volume & aren't sure whether that would be enough.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation Alan,The port is open to the water and acts on the piston directly.Hank On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:44 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,in hindsight there is a problem in that when the external water pressurepushes on the rod & tries to make the piston move down the cylinderthere is a vacuum created behind the cylinder that needs filling with oil.Not sure if that's the right terminology.If water can move in to that void through one of the ports, it would work.?Or the rod & piston were the same diameter. You may have already thought?through this. I encountered this when trying to compensate linear actuators.Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/02/2017, at 11:25 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian, The piston is mid way.Alan,I was going to install an internal spring to create internal pressure but I only have one seal oriented to keep oil in. ?I will try this first and see where it leads.I have tried this in the past on Gamma's prop shaft and it did not work- I am sure it is because of the seal orientation.Hank On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? where is the piston situated in the cylinder upon start up of?operation???? Half way ??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 21:32:47 +0000 (UTC) I have just installed my two additional motors on Gamma that are mounted to the manipulator assembly borrowed from Elementary 3,000. ?To compensate them I used a single air cylinder 1.5 in bore with 4 in stroke as the compensation bladder. ?The cylinder is filled with light hydraulic oil and the motors are filled with WD40. ?There are hydraulic hoses connecting the cylinder to the two motors. ?I reversed one seal in each motor so the one seal keeps water out and one seal keeps oil in. ?There is a tiny bit of air in the system but that makes no difference because the cylinder piston has enough travel to compress the air. ?I think oil enters compensated motors because the oil spinning creates pressure from centrifugal force and the seals are oriented to keep water out. ?The oil can then escape, that is why I have turned one seal around. ?I will be testing in a month or so, and we will see, I guess.Hank_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 17 16:36:20 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 13:36:20 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation Message-ID: <20170217133620.25B9CF5@m0086238.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 17 16:50:35 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 21:50:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation In-Reply-To: <20170217133620.25B9CF5@m0086238.ppops.net> References: <20170217133620.25B9CF5@m0086238.ppops.net> Message-ID: <116546869.1524407.1487368235111@mail.yahoo.com> Don't know about the delron, but the pvc can. ?When I had my visit with Dr Nuytten, he told me about an instace when they built plastic arms on the Rover sub and the pistons got stuck from water absorption. ?They had to?sleeve the tubes with SS.Hank On Friday, February 17, 2017 2:36 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,?? Are you saying the delron will absorb water or the pvc?? or both???? I could use an aluminum disk instead of delron.? ?Flooding here right now, may have to get in the sub!?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 21:18:41 +0000 (UTC) Brian,Don't be tempted to use plastic for anything with a piston. ?The plastic will absorb water and change size, your piston will get stuck.Hank On Friday, February 17, 2017 1:03 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,??????? I was thinking it would be easy to make a compensator just using a pvc pipe and then machine a delron disk ( you wouldn't need the piston rod)? with a o ring , the disk could move freely inside the pvc pipe and the pvc pipe would?give?you the ability to glue fittings?on the ends which would give you a threaded connection to attach a hose line to.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 04:57:40 +0000 (UTC) Brian,yes true, but if I can?hack something that's already out thereall the better.?That's what Hank is doing with his pneumaticcylinder. The screw cap?on the items I posted is?an advantage for filling& retaining the spring, but would be a pain to make. Those professionally manufactured?compensators cost a fortune.Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation Alan,?? You could probably make a plexi glass unit like that, you could machine a aluminum disk for the piston.? You would be able to observe what is happening! ??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 02:34:31 +0000 (UTC) Hank,why waste a good pneumatic cylinder when you can haveone of these. (sauce syringe) All you need is a stainless spring to put inside it foroverpressure, a compatible hose fitting, & maybe replace the pistono-ring. I have only seen them up to 100ml in volume & aren't sure whether that would be enough.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation Alan,The port is open to the water and acts on the piston directly.Hank On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:44 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,in hindsight there is a problem in that when the external water pressurepushes on the rod & tries to make the piston move down the cylinderthere is a vacuum created behind the cylinder that needs filling with oil.Not sure if that's the right terminology.If water can move in to that void through one of the ports, it would work.?Or the rod & piston were the same diameter. You may have already thought?through this. I encountered this when trying to compensate linear actuators.Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/02/2017, at 11:25 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian, The piston is mid way.Alan,I was going to install an internal spring to create internal pressure but I only have one seal oriented to keep oil in. ?I will try this first and see where it leads.I have tried this in the past on Gamma's prop shaft and it did not work- I am sure it is because of the seal orientation.Hank On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? where is the piston situated in the cylinder upon start up of?operation???? Half way ??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 21:32:47 +0000 (UTC) I have just installed my two additional motors on Gamma that are mounted to the manipulator assembly borrowed from Elementary 3,000. ?To compensate them I used a single air cylinder 1.5 in bore with 4 in stroke as the compensation bladder. ?The cylinder is filled with light hydraulic oil and the motors are filled with WD40. ?There are hydraulic hoses connecting the cylinder to the two motors. ?I reversed one seal in each motor so the one seal keeps water out and one seal keeps oil in. ?There is a tiny bit of air in the system but that makes no difference because the cylinder piston has enough travel to compress the air. ?I think oil enters compensated motors because the oil spinning creates pressure from centrifugal force and the seals are oriented to keep water out. ?The oil can then escape, that is why I have turned one seal around. ?I will be testing in a month or so, and we will see, I guess.Hank_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 17 19:22:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2017 13:22:56 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation In-Reply-To: <20170217120313.4D85980B@m0087793.ppops.net> References: <20170217120313.4D85980B@m0087793.ppops.net> Message-ID: <5135C107-2A78-4CF2-968F-4500021B6FF9@yahoo.com> Brian, they use pvc for plumbing so that should be OK regarding water absorption. Another alternative would be to use some acrylic tube; that would have a smoother finish & you could see the oil level. I liked the paint pot idea I had, as they are very cheap & have a screw on lid for filling as well as a fitting in the base. If you decide to make one; the commercial compensators I have seen have a spring for giving the unit a 4-6 psi overpressure. This would be a help because if there were any stiffness in the piston you would end up with less than ambient pressure. If you aren't creating an overpressure you may as well just use a bladder. Having said that a lot of people are happy without an overpressure. Karl Stanley just uses a first stage regulator with the spring removed to give ambient pressure air compensation, & lets the overpressure on the way up force it's way past the thruster seal. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 18/02/2017, at 9:03 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, I was thinking it would be easy to make a compensator just using a pvc pipe and then machine a delron disk ( you wouldn't need the piston rod) with a o ring , the disk could move freely inside the pvc pipe and the pvc pipe would give you the ability to glue fittings on the ends which would give you a threaded connection to attach a hose line to. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 04:57:40 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, > yes true, but if I can hack something that's already out there > all the better. That's what Hank is doing with his pneumatic > cylinder. The screw cap on the items I posted is an advantage for filling > & retaining the spring, but would be a pain to make. > Those professionally manufactured compensators cost a fortune. > Alan > > > > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 4:36 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation > > Alan, You could probably make a plexi glass unit like that, you could machine a aluminum disk for the piston. You would be able to observe what is happening! > > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 02:34:31 +0000 (UTC) > > Hank, > why waste a good pneumatic cylinder when you can have > one of these. (sauce syringe) All you need is a stainless spring to put inside it for > overpressure, a compatible hose fitting, & maybe replace the piston > o-ring. I have only seen them up to 100ml in volume & aren't sure whether > that would be enough. > Alan > > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 1:25 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation > > Alan, > The port is open to the water and acts on the piston directly. > Hank > > > On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:44 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > in hindsight there is a problem in that when the external water pressure > pushes on the rod & tries to make the piston move down the cylinder > there is a vacuum created behind the cylinder that needs filling with oil. > Not sure if that's the right terminology. > If water can move in to that void through one of the ports, it would work. > Or the rod & piston were the same diameter. You may have already thought > through this. I encountered this when trying to compensate linear actuators. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 16/02/2017, at 11:25 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Brian, > > The piston is mid way. > Alan, > I was going to install an internal spring to create internal pressure but I only have one seal oriented to keep oil in. I will try this first and see where it leads. > I have tried this in the past on Gamma's prop shaft and it did not work- I am sure it is because of the seal orientation. > Hank > > > On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, where is the piston situated in the cylinder upon start up of operation ? Half way ? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation > Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 21:32:47 +0000 (UTC) > > I have just installed my two additional motors on Gamma that are mounted to the manipulator assembly borrowed from Elementary 3,000. To compensate them I used a single air cylinder 1.5 in bore with 4 in stroke as the compensation bladder. The cylinder is filled with light hydraulic oil and the motors are filled with WD40. There are hydraulic hoses connecting the cylinder to the two motors. I reversed one seal in each motor so the one seal keeps water out and one seal keeps oil in. There is a tiny bit of air in the system but that makes no difference because the cylinder piston has enough travel to compress the air. I think oil enters compensated motors because the oil spinning creates pressure from centrifugal force and the seals are oriented to keep water out. The oil can then escape, that is why I have turned one seal around. I will be testing in a month or so, and we will see, I guess. > Hank > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 17 21:25:24 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2017 15:25:24 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation In-Reply-To: <5135C107-2A78-4CF2-968F-4500021B6FF9@yahoo.com> References: <20170217120313.4D85980B@m0087793.ppops.net> <5135C107-2A78-4CF2-968F-4500021B6FF9@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2B638190-5B4F-49EC-8EA4-ED6AD48D5C6E@yahoo.com> Brian, you may prefer to build a "rolling diaphragm" compensator. http://www.tecnadyne.com/cms/images/products/pdf/Model%20PCX%20Brochure.pdf These compensators were used on James Cameron's sub. Also google rolling diaphragm or volume compensator diaphragm if you aren't sure what I am on about. In the technadyne link, it looks like they clamp the diaphragm between the two halves of the cylinder. I remember pricing a compensator years back & it was a fortune; but could be easily & cheaply made. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 18/02/2017, at 1:22 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Brian, > they use pvc for plumbing so that should be OK regarding > water absorption. Another alternative would be to use some > acrylic tube; that would have a smoother finish & you could > see the oil level. > I liked the paint pot idea I had, as they are very cheap & have > a screw on lid for filling as well as a fitting in the base. > If you decide to make one; the commercial compensators I > have seen have a spring for giving the unit a 4-6 psi overpressure. > This would be a help because if there were any stiffness in the piston > you would end up with less than ambient pressure. If you aren't creating > an overpressure you may as well just use a bladder. Having said that > a lot of people are happy without an overpressure. Karl Stanley just > uses a first stage regulator with the spring removed to give ambient > pressure air compensation, & lets the overpressure on the way up > force it's way past the thruster seal. > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 18/02/2017, at 9:03 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, I was thinking it would be easy to make a compensator just using a pvc pipe and then machine a delron disk ( you wouldn't need the piston rod) with a o ring , the disk could move freely inside the pvc pipe and the pvc pipe would give you the ability to glue fittings on the ends which would give you a threaded connection to attach a hose line to. >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation >> Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 04:57:40 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Brian, >> yes true, but if I can hack something that's already out there >> all the better. That's what Hank is doing with his pneumatic >> cylinder. The screw cap on the items I posted is an advantage for filling >> & retaining the spring, but would be a pain to make. >> Those professionally manufactured compensators cost a fortune. >> Alan >> >> >> >> From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 4:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation >> >> Alan, You could probably make a plexi glass unit like that, you could machine a aluminum disk for the piston. You would be able to observe what is happening! >> >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation >> Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 02:34:31 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Hank, >> why waste a good pneumatic cylinder when you can have >> one of these. (sauce syringe) All you need is a stainless spring to put inside it for >> overpressure, a compatible hose fitting, & maybe replace the piston >> o-ring. I have only seen them up to 100ml in volume & aren't sure whether >> that would be enough. >> Alan >> >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 1:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation >> >> Alan, >> The port is open to the water and acts on the piston directly. >> Hank >> >> >> On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:44 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> in hindsight there is a problem in that when the external water pressure >> pushes on the rod & tries to make the piston move down the cylinder >> there is a vacuum created behind the cylinder that needs filling with oil. >> Not sure if that's the right terminology. >> If water can move in to that void through one of the ports, it would work. >> Or the rod & piston were the same diameter. You may have already thought >> through this. I encountered this when trying to compensate linear actuators. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 16/02/2017, at 11:25 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Brian, >> >> The piston is mid way. >> Alan, >> I was going to install an internal spring to create internal pressure but I only have one seal oriented to keep oil in. I will try this first and see where it leads. >> I have tried this in the past on Gamma's prop shaft and it did not work- I am sure it is because of the seal orientation. >> Hank >> >> >> On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, where is the piston situated in the cylinder upon start up of operation ? Half way ? >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation >> Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 21:32:47 +0000 (UTC) >> >> I have just installed my two additional motors on Gamma that are mounted to the manipulator assembly borrowed from Elementary 3,000. To compensate them I used a single air cylinder 1.5 in bore with 4 in stroke as the compensation bladder. The cylinder is filled with light hydraulic oil and the motors are filled with WD40. There are hydraulic hoses connecting the cylinder to the two motors. I reversed one seal in each motor so the one seal keeps water out and one seal keeps oil in. There is a tiny bit of air in the system but that makes no difference because the cylinder piston has enough travel to compress the air. I think oil enters compensated motors because the oil spinning creates pressure from centrifugal force and the seals are oriented to keep water out. The oil can then escape, that is why I have turned one seal around. I will be testing in a month or so, and we will see, I guess. >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 18 03:55:47 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2017 21:55:47 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation In-Reply-To: <2B638190-5B4F-49EC-8EA4-ED6AD48D5C6E@yahoo.com> References: <20170217120313.4D85980B@m0087793.ppops.net> <5135C107-2A78-4CF2-968F-4500021B6FF9@yahoo.com> <2B638190-5B4F-49EC-8EA4-ED6AD48D5C6E@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7C0FB068-06D4-4021-836F-AD3586C58C3F@xtra.co.nz> Hey guys - don't get too carried away by re-inventing the wheel - have a look at what you can get off shelf and modify. A number of years ago we used Kodak plastic concertina chemical bottles for compensators - image shows a couple enclosed but exposed to pressure to compensate RPV thrusters - they worked down to 2000-ft depth. We also used plastic Coca Cola containers for for RPV adjustable buoyancy systems - they worked also. As did wine cask bladders! Go to K-Mart - perhaps with some lateral thinking the answer may be sitting on a shelf - I doubt you are trying to achieve James Cameron's depths. Cheers Keith Gordon On 18/02/2017, at 3:25 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Brian, > you may prefer to build a "rolling diaphragm" compensator. > http://www.tecnadyne.com/cms/images/products/pdf/Model%20PCX%20Brochure.pdf > These compensators were used on James Cameron's sub. > Also google rolling diaphragm or volume compensator diaphragm if you > aren't sure what I am on about. > In the technadyne link, it looks like they clamp the diaphragm between the two > halves of the cylinder. > I remember pricing a compensator years back & it was a fortune; but could be easily & > cheaply made. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 18/02/2017, at 1:22 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Brian, >> they use pvc for plumbing so that should be OK regarding >> water absorption. Another alternative would be to use some >> acrylic tube; that would have a smoother finish & you could >> see the oil level. >> I liked the paint pot idea I had, as they are very cheap & have >> a screw on lid for filling as well as a fitting in the base. >> If you decide to make one; the commercial compensators I >> have seen have a spring for giving the unit a 4-6 psi overpressure. >> This would be a help because if there were any stiffness in the piston >> you would end up with less than ambient pressure. If you aren't creating >> an overpressure you may as well just use a bladder. Having said that >> a lot of people are happy without an overpressure. Karl Stanley just >> uses a first stage regulator with the spring removed to give ambient >> pressure air compensation, & lets the overpressure on the way up >> force it's way past the thruster seal. >> Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 18/02/2017, at 9:03 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> Alan, I was thinking it would be easy to make a compensator just using a pvc pipe and then machine a delron disk ( you wouldn't need the piston rod) with a o ring , the disk could move freely inside the pvc pipe and the pvc pipe would give you the ability to glue fittings on the ends which would give you a threaded connection to attach a hose line to. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation >>> Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 04:57:40 +0000 (UTC) >>> >>> Brian, >>> yes true, but if I can hack something that's already out there >>> all the better. That's what Hank is doing with his pneumatic >>> cylinder. The screw cap on the items I posted is an advantage for filling >>> & retaining the spring, but would be a pain to make. >>> Those professionally manufactured compensators cost a fortune. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 4:36 PM >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation >>> >>> Alan, You could probably make a plexi glass unit like that, you could machine a aluminum disk for the piston. You would be able to observe what is happening! >>> >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation >>> Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 02:34:31 +0000 (UTC) >>> >>> Hank, >>> why waste a good pneumatic cylinder when you can have >>> one of these. (sauce syringe) All you need is a stainless spring to put inside it for >>> overpressure, a compatible hose fitting, & maybe replace the piston >>> o-ring. I have only seen them up to 100ml in volume & aren't sure whether >>> that would be enough. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 1:25 PM >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation >>> >>> Alan, >>> The port is open to the water and acts on the piston directly. >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:44 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hank, >>> in hindsight there is a problem in that when the external water pressure >>> pushes on the rod & tries to make the piston move down the cylinder >>> there is a vacuum created behind the cylinder that needs filling with oil. >>> Not sure if that's the right terminology. >>> If water can move in to that void through one of the ports, it would work. >>> Or the rod & piston were the same diameter. You may have already thought >>> through this. I encountered this when trying to compensate linear actuators. >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 16/02/2017, at 11:25 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Brian, >>> >>> The piston is mid way. >>> Alan, >>> I was going to install an internal spring to create internal pressure but I only have one seal oriented to keep oil in. I will try this first and see where it leads >>> I have tried this in the past on Gamma's prop shaft and it did not work- I am sure it is because of the seal orientation. >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hank, where is the piston situated in the cylinder upon start up of operation ? Half way ? >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation >>> Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 21:32:47 +0000 (UTC) >>> >>> I have just installed my two additional motors on Gamma that are mounted to the manipulator assembly borrowed from Elementary 3,000. To compensate them I used a single air cylinder 1.5 in bore with 4 in stroke as the compensation bladder. The cylinder is filled with light hydraulic oil and the motors are filled with WD40. There are hydraulic hoses connecting the cylinder to the two motors. I reversed one seal in each motor so the one seal keeps water out and one seal keeps oil in. There is a tiny bit of air in the system but that makes no difference because the cylinder piston has enough travel to compress the air. I think oil enters compensated motors because the oil spinning creates pressure from centrifugal force and the seals are oriented to keep water out. The oil can then escape, that is why I have turned one seal around. I will be testing in a month or so, and we will see, I guess. >>> Hank >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubsorg/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PICT0012.jpeg Type: image/jpg Size: 105691 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 18 09:51:48 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2017 03:51:48 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation In-Reply-To: <7C0FB068-06D4-4021-836F-AD3586C58C3F@xtra.co.nz> References: <20170217120313.4D85980B@m0087793.ppops.net> <5135C107-2A78-4CF2-968F-4500021B6FF9@yahoo.com> <2B638190-5B4F-49EC-8EA4-ED6AD48D5C6E@yahoo.com> <7C0FB068-06D4-4021-836F-AD3586C58C3F@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: <9D1E251E-BF4F-49DA-A73A-0F0F8DCE825C@yahoo.com> Keith, thanks for the Kiwi solution. James Cameron also had plastic IV bags, which are strong, have attachment points, & fittings. I agree that if you can "hack" a mass produced item, you can save a lot of money. The rolling diaphragms are very cheap, but I have only found them in China so far. All I would need additionally would be 2 flanged cups to bolt together, with the rolling diaphragm clamped between. Preferably with a fitting in one end. With the addition of a stainless spring for over-pressure I may have a cheap but professional unit. As you suggest, first point of call is looking for ready made parts rather than machining myself. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 18/02/2017, at 9:55 PM, Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hey guys - don't get too carried away by re-inventing the wheel - have a look at what you can get off shelf and modify. A number of years ago we used Kodak plastic concertina chemical bottles for compensators - image shows a couple enclosed but exposed to pressure to compensate RPV thrusters - they worked down to 2000-ft depth. We also used plastic Coca Cola containers for for RPV adjustable buoyancy systems - they worked also. As did wine cask bladders! > Go to K-Mart - perhaps with some lateral thinking the answer may be sitting on a shelf - I doubt you are trying to achieve James Cameron's depths. > Cheers > Keith Gordon > > > > >> On 18/02/2017, at 3:25 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Brian, >> you may prefer to build a "rolling diaphragm" compensator. >> http://www.tecnadyne.com/cms/images/products/pdf/Model%20PCX%20Brochure.pdf >> These compensators were used on James Cameron's sub. >> Also google rolling diaphragm or volume compensator diaphragm if you >> aren't sure what I am on about. >> In the technadyne link, it looks like they clamp the diaphragm between the two >> halves of the cylinder. >> I remember pricing a compensator years back & it was a fortune; but could be easily & >> cheaply made. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 18/02/2017, at 1:22 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Brian, >>> they use pvc for plumbing so that should be OK regarding >>> water absorption. Another alternative would be to use some >>> acrylic tube; that would have a smoother finish & you could >>> see the oil level. >>> I liked the paint pot idea I had, as they are very cheap & have >>> a screw on lid for filling as well as a fitting in the base. >>> If you decide to make one; the commercial compensators I >>> have seen have a spring for giving the unit a 4-6 psi overpressure. >>> This would be a help because if there were any stiffness in the piston >>> you would end up with less than ambient pressure. If you aren't creating >>> an overpressure you may as well just use a bladder. Having said that >>> a lot of people are happy without an overpressure. Karl Stanley just >>> uses a first stage regulator with the spring removed to give ambient >>> pressure air compensation, & lets the overpressure on the way up >>> force it's way past the thruster seal. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 18/02/2017, at 9:03 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Alan, I was thinking it would be easy to make a compensator just using a pvc pipe and then machine a delron disk ( you wouldn't need the piston rod) with a o ring , the disk could move freely inside the pvc pipe and the pvc pipe would give you the ability to glue fittings on the ends which would give you a threaded connection to attach a hose line to. >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation >>>> Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 04:57:40 +0000 (UTC) >>>> >>>> Brian, >>>> yes true, but if I can hack something that's already out there >>>> all the better. That's what Hank is doing with his pneumatic >>>> cylinder. The screw cap on the items I posted is an advantage for filling >>>> & retaining the spring, but would be a pain to make. >>>> Those professionally manufactured compensators cost a fortune. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 4:36 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation >>>> >>>> Alan, You could probably make a plexi glass unit like that, you could machine a aluminum disk for the piston. You would be able to observe what is happening! >>>> >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation >>>> Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 02:34:31 +0000 (UTC) >>>> >>>> Hank, >>>> why waste a good pneumatic cylinder when you can have >>>> one of these. (sauce syringe) All you need is a stainless spring to put inside it for >>>> overpressure, a compatible hose fitting, & maybe replace the piston >>>> o-ring. I have only seen them up to 100ml in volume & aren't sure whether >>>> that would be enough. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 1:25 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation >>>> >>>> Alan, >>>> The port is open to the water and acts on the piston directly. >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:44 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hank, >>>> in hindsight there is a problem in that when the external water pressure >>>> pushes on the rod & tries to make the piston move down the cylinder >>>> there is a vacuum created behind the cylinder that needs filling with oil. >>>> Not sure if that's the right terminology. >>>> If water can move in to that void through one of the ports, it would work. >>>> Or the rod & piston were the same diameter. You may have already thought >>>> through this. I encountered this when trying to compensate linear actuators. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On 16/02/2017, at 11:25 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Brian, >>>> >>>> The piston is mid way. >>>> Alan, >>>> I was going to install an internal spring to create internal pressure but I only have one seal oriented to keep oil in. I will try this first and see where it leads >>>> I have tried this in the past on Gamma's prop shaft and it did not work- I am sure it is because of the seal orientation. >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hank, where is the piston situated in the cylinder upon start up of operation ? Half way ? >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>> >>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster compensation >>>> Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 21:32:47 +0000 (UTC) >>>> >>>> I have just installed my two additional motors on Gamma that are mounted to the manipulator assembly borrowed from Elementary 3,000. To compensate them I used a single air cylinder 1.5 in bore with 4 in stroke as the compensation bladder. The cylinder is filled with light hydraulic oil and the motors are filled with WD40. There are hydraulic hoses connecting the cylinder to the two motors. I reversed one seal in each motor so the one seal keeps water out and one seal keeps oil in. There is a tiny bit of air in the system but that makes no difference because the cylinder piston has enough travel to compress the air. I think oil enters compensated motors because the oil spinning creates pressure from centrifugal force and the seals are oriented to keep water out. The oil can then escape, that is why I have turned one seal around. I will be testing in a month or so, and we will see, I guess. >>>> Hank >>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubsorg/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 19 11:05:54 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2017 16:05:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] S101 References: <316465994.477121.1487520354218.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <316465994.477121.1487520354218@mail.yahoo.com> Wow the S101 diesel sub is down to 135K and looking for offers. ?That is pretty darn good, and what a nice machine!Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 20 11:13:02 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 16:13:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] inside battery References: <1743662974.1013364.1487607182711.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1743662974.1013364.1487607182711@mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, I may have made a bad judgment call, I added batteries to Gamma and was intending to put them in the escape pod. ?I decided to just put them in the back of the hull instead. ?I borrowed the batteries from Elementary 3000, they are lead acid in a fibreglass box, flooded with oil with a bladder top. ?To my mind they are safe because they are flooded with oil. ?At the same time, are they dangerous because they are flooded with oil. ?I can's see why they are dangerous, but at the same time, I know people talk about the danger of oil in a sub. ?I am not sure why? ?I don't want to invest in AGM batteries yet because I am not totally confident I will be happy with the range. ?I think I might need a diesel engine. ?I have worked out the diesel engine idea but it is a 10K investment. ?That is why I want to give batteries a try first. ?What to do?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 20 11:37:36 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:37:36 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] inside battery In-Reply-To: <1743662974.1013364.1487607182711@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1743662974.1013364.1487607182711.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1743662974.1013364.1487607182711@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, Certainly the battery of choice for the inside would be AGM, but on the other hand plenty of subs had lead acid batteries inside the hull for eons before AGMs were invented (everything from military subs to K250s). So if it were me I'd use the lead acid batteries as an initial test just as you proposed, but replace with AGM when it's time to replace them. As for the oil, it serves no purpose inside the cabin as I presume it was just for pressure compensation. Why not just drain the boxes to save weight? I don't see the oil as presenting a danger, but it does present a danger of messiness. Best, Alec On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 11:13 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi all, I may have made a bad judgment call, I added batteries to Gamma > and was intending to put them in the escape pod. I decided to just put > them in the back of the hull instead. I borrowed the batteries from > Elementary 3000, they are lead acid in a fibreglass box, flooded with oil > with a bladder top. To my mind they are safe because they are flooded with > oil. At the same time, are they dangerous because they are flooded with > oil. I can's see why they are dangerous, but at the same time, I know > people talk about the danger of oil in a sub. I am not sure why? I don't > want to invest in AGM batteries yet because I am not totally confident I > will be happy with the range. I think I might need a diesel engine. I > have worked out the diesel engine idea but it is a 10K investment. That is > why I want to give batteries a try first. > What to do? > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 20 11:40:58 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Bryce Schroeder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:40:58 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] inside battery In-Reply-To: References: <1743662974.1013364.1487607182711.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1743662974.1013364.1487607182711@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Unless "oil" means something like a perfluorocarbon / flourinert or something, I would think it would present a fire hazard if the battery shorts out? Especially if the battery is "mostly" drained of oil and so contains air and oil together. A little oil burning off could make the atmosphere bad in a hurry... just my two cents. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 20 11:41:02 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 16:41:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] inside battery In-Reply-To: <1743662974.1013364.1487607182711@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1743662974.1013364.1487607182711.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1743662974.1013364.1487607182711@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1495229381.24669374.1487608862267.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> It's my understanding that compressed oxygen and oil can be very explosive. If you didn't have any O2 tanks in your sub, I believe you would be ok but someone else here might have more insight than I. I knew a guy that was on O2 and got some oil on his fingers... it put him in the ICU for several weeks. ----- Original Message ----- From: "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 8:13:02 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] inside battery Hi all, I may have made a bad judgment call, I added batteries to Gamma and was intending to put them in the escape pod. I decided to just put them in the back of the hull instead. I borrowed the batteries from Elementary 3000, they are lead acid in a fibreglass box, flooded with oil with a bladder top. To my mind they are safe because they are flooded with oil. At the same time, are they dangerous because they are flooded with oil. I can's see why they are dangerous, but at the same time, I know people talk about the danger of oil in a sub. I am not sure why? I don't want to invest in AGM batteries yet because I am not totally confident I will be happy with the range. I think I might need a diesel engine. I have worked out the diesel engine idea but it is a 10K investment. That is why I want to give batteries a try first. What to do? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 20 12:25:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 17:25:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] inside battery In-Reply-To: <1743662974.1013364.1487607182711@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1743662974.1013364.1487607182711.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1743662974.1013364.1487607182711@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1541074426.1066772.1487611549777@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks' guys that is very helpful. ?My reason for keeping the boxes full of oil is,, if the cable contacts come loose, they can spark, if they are flooded with oil the spark is?harmless. ?In Gamma's history, that happened, a spark made the hydrogen pop and it bent the floor board. ?The oil displaces all the air in the box, that means the hydrogen bubbles will just form a hydrogen bubble between the membrane and the oil. ?I can vent that off every time I charge the batteries. ? The sub will not have any more O2 in it than the atmosphere ?plus or minus 2% alarms will go off and I would adjust the level or surface immediately. ?I guess if there cars a catastrophic failure with my O2 tank the pressure inside could reach a couple psi, but is that an issue? ?I have never personally heard of a tank failing. ??Thank again, big relief.Hank On Monday, February 20, 2017 9:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all, I may have made a bad judgment call, I added batteries to Gamma and was intending to put them in the escape pod. ?I decided to just put them in the back of the hull instead. ?I borrowed the batteries from Elementary 3000, they are lead acid in a fibreglass box, flooded with oil with a bladder top. ?To my mind they are safe because they are flooded with oil. ?At the same time, are they dangerous because they are flooded with oil. ?I can's see why they are dangerous, but at the same time, I know people talk about the danger of oil in a sub. ?I am not sure why? ?I don't want to invest in AGM batteries yet because I am not totally confident I will be happy with the range. ?I think I might need a diesel engine. ?I have worked out the diesel engine idea but it is a 10K investment. ?That is why I want to give batteries a try first. ?What to do?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 20 12:43:21 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 09:43:21 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] inside battery Message-ID: Hank, Oil is very difficult to ignite without a wick or some means of vaporizing it. Put some in a can and throw matches into it and see. Has to do with the flash point of the oil. Kerosene, diesel, jet fuel, etc. All have a flash point near 400 degrees while gasoline is around 100. Keith T? Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 2/20/17 9:25 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] inside battery Thanks' guys that is very helpful. ?My reason for keeping the boxes full of oil is,, if the cable contacts come loose, they can spark, if they are flooded with oil the spark is?harmless. ?In Gamma's history, that happened, a spark made the hydrogen pop and it bent the floor board. ?The oil displaces all the air in the box, that means the hydrogen bubbles will just form a hydrogen bubble between the membrane and the oil. ?I can vent that off every time I charge the batteries. ? The sub will not have any more O2 in it than the atmosphere ?plus or minus 2% alarms will go off and I would adjust the level or surface immediately. ?I guess if there cars a catastrophic failure with my O2 tank the pressure inside could reach a couple psi, but is that an issue? ?I have never personally heard of a tank failing. ??Thank again, big relief.Hank On Monday, February 20, 2017 9:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all, I may have made a bad judgment call, I added batteries to Gamma and was intending to put them in the escape pod. ?I decided to just put them in the back of the hull instead. ?I borrowed the batteries from Elementary 3000, they are lead acid in a fibreglass box, flooded with oil with a bladder top. ?To my mind they are safe because they are flooded with oil. ?At the same time, are they dangerous because they are flooded with oil. ?I can's see why they are dangerous, but at the same time, I know people talk about the danger of oil in a sub. ?I am not sure why? ?I don't want to invest in AGM batteries yet because I am not totally confident I will be happy with the range. ?I think I might need a diesel engine. ?I have worked out the diesel engine idea but it is a 10K investment. ?That is why I want to give batteries a try first. ?What to do?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 20 14:07:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 14:07:49 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] inside battery In-Reply-To: References: <1743662974.1013364.1487607182711.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1743662974.1013364.1487607182711@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm assuming the oil filled battery was meant to go outside and therefore is completely airtight? Of course one would not want an open oil tub inside, I agree with that! :) Alec On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Bryce Schroeder via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Unless "oil" means something like a perfluorocarbon / flourinert or > something, I would think it would present a fire hazard if the battery > shorts out? Especially if the battery is "mostly" drained of oil and so > contains air and oil together. A little oil burning off could make the > atmosphere bad in a hurry... just my two cents. > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 20 14:08:03 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 19:08:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] inside battery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <360171544.1140554.1487617683198@mail.yahoo.com> I am sure glad I?asked about this, it was bothering me enough to remove the batteries and it was a big job to install the system.Hank On Monday, February 20, 2017 10:43 AM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Oil is very difficult to ignite without a wick or some means of vaporizing it. Put some in a can and throw matches into it and see. Has to do with the flash point of the oil. Kerosene, diesel, jet fuel, etc. All have a flash point near 400 degrees while gasoline is around 100. Keith T? Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 2/20/17 9:25 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] inside battery Thanks' guys that is very helpful. ?My reason for keeping the boxes full of oil is,, if the cable contacts come loose, they can spark, if they are flooded with oil the spark is?harmless. ?In Gamma's history, that happened, a spark made the hydrogen pop and it bent the floor board. ?The oil displaces all the air in the box, that means the hydrogen bubbles will just form a hydrogen bubble between the membrane and the oil. ?I can vent that off every time I charge the batteries. ? The sub will not have any more O2 in it than the atmosphere ?plus or minus 2% alarms will go off and I would adjust the level or surface immediately. ?I guess if there cars a catastrophic failure with my O2 tank the pressure inside could reach a couple psi, but is that an issue? ?I have never personally heard of a tank failing. ??Thank again, big relief.Hank On Monday, February 20, 2017 9:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all, I may have made a bad judgment call, I added batteries to Gamma and was intending to put them in the escape pod. ?I decided to just put them in the back of the hull instead. ?I borrowed the batteries from Elementary 3000, they are lead acid in a fibreglass box, flooded with oil with a bladder top. ?To my mind they are safe because they are flooded with oil. ?At the same time, are they dangerous because they are flooded with oil. ?I can's see why they are dangerous, but at the same time, I know people talk about the danger of oil in a sub. ?I am not sure why? ?I don't want to invest in AGM batteries yet because I am not totally confident I will be happy with the range. ?I think I might need a diesel engine. ?I have worked out the diesel engine idea but it is a 10K investment. ?That is why I want to give batteries a try first. ?What to do?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 20 14:33:33 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 19:33:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] inside battery In-Reply-To: <360171544.1140554.1487617683198@mail.yahoo.com> References: <360171544.1140554.1487617683198@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1231339633.1155700.1487619213238@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,Yes the?batteries are pressure compensated for outside use.Hank On Monday, February 20, 2017 12:12 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I am sure glad I?asked about this, it was bothering me enough to remove the batteries and it was a big job to install the system.Hank On Monday, February 20, 2017 10:43 AM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Oil is very difficult to ignite without a wick or some means of vaporizing it. Put some in a can and throw matches into it and see. Has to do with the flash point of the oil. Kerosene, diesel, jet fuel, etc. All have a flash point near 400 degrees while gasoline is around 100. Keith T? Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 2/20/17 9:25 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] inside battery Thanks' guys that is very helpful. ?My reason for keeping the boxes full of oil is,, if the cable contacts come loose, they can spark, if they are flooded with oil the spark is?harmless. ?In Gamma's history, that happened, a spark made the hydrogen pop and it bent the floor board. ?The oil displaces all the air in the box, that means the hydrogen bubbles will just form a hydrogen bubble between the membrane and the oil. ?I can vent that off every time I charge the batteries. ? The sub will not have any more O2 in it than the atmosphere ?plus or minus 2% alarms will go off and I would adjust the level or surface immediately. ?I guess if there cars a catastrophic failure with my O2 tank the pressure inside could reach a couple psi, but is that an issue? ?I have never personally heard of a tank failing. ??Thank again, big relief.Hank On Monday, February 20, 2017 9:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all, I may have made a bad judgment call, I added batteries to Gamma and was intending to put them in the escape pod. ?I decided to just put them in the back of the hull instead. ?I borrowed the batteries from Elementary 3000, they are lead acid in a fibreglass box, flooded with oil with a bladder top. ?To my mind they are safe because they are flooded with oil. ?At the same time, are they dangerous because they are flooded with oil. ?I can's see why they are dangerous, but at the same time, I know people talk about the danger of oil in a sub. ?I am not sure why? ?I don't want to invest in AGM batteries yet because I am not totally confident I will be happy with the range. ?I think I might need a diesel engine. ?I have worked out the diesel engine idea but it is a 10K investment. ?That is why I want to give batteries a try first. ?What to do?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 20 15:10:42 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 13:10:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] inside battery In-Reply-To: ftKYcKMZkLF2iftKZcbtVY References: <1743662974.1013364.1487607182711.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1743662974.1013364.1487607182711@mail.yahoo.com> ftKYcKMZkLF2iftKZcbtVY Message-ID: There may always be trace constituents of the cabin air that are not air gases, as a result of installed equipment, lubricants, flatus, component offgassing, chemical residues, body odours and so forth. As long as these remain in only trace concentrations, they aren't a worry. I would suggest though that the greatest hazard presented by spillable oil volumes in the personnel compartment is not the risk of fire (although that exists), but rather contamination of the cabin air. It may be prudent to include, in addition to a caustic scrubber to remove CO2, a catalytic or activated charcoal filter to remove these trace contaminants (acid gases, volatile organic compounds, hydrocarbons, etc.) to keep the air clean and (ideally) odourless. As for the batteries, with the oil compensation in place, how is hydrogen eliminated if offgassing occurs during charging? My own design incorporates outboard batteries in 1 atm housings, which are flushed with sulfur hexafluoride gas. That supresses the spark / fire risk, while keeping everything clean and dry for servicing. Sean On February 20, 2017 12:07:49 PM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >I'm assuming the oil filled battery was meant to go outside and >therefore >is completely airtight? Of course one would not want an open oil tub >inside, I agree with that! > >:) > >Alec > >On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Bryce Schroeder via >Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> Unless "oil" means something like a perfluorocarbon / flourinert or >> something, I would think it would present a fire hazard if the >battery >> shorts out? Especially if the battery is "mostly" drained of oil and >so >> contains air and oil together. A little oil burning off could make >the >> atmosphere bad in a hurry... just my two cents. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 20 15:49:08 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 09:49:08 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] inside battery In-Reply-To: <1743662974.1013364.1487607182711@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1743662974.1013364.1487607182711.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1743662974.1013364.1487607182711@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I first used scented baby oil ( mineral oil) in my battery box because it was cheap from the supermarket. The chemicals in the scent must have reacted with the battery acid or plates & produced a bit of gas. Not excessive, but it stopped when I changed to pure mineral oil. At least any hydrogen produced won't go in to the hull, & if the terminals are covered with oil there won't be any worry about sparking. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 21/02/2017, at 5:13 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 20 16:29:16 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 21:29:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] inside battery In-Reply-To: References: <1743662974.1013364.1487607182711.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1743662974.1013364.1487607182711@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1880209670.1235166.1487626156043@mail.yahoo.com> Sean,That is a great idea, I will look into that. ?I like it! ?The hydrogen is not eliminated, it is simply captured so to speak, in the form of a bubble on top of the oil and?actually right under the fill cap . ?I can leave the fill cap open when charging. ? I would not even consider building battery pods again for a sub. ?The cost and time to build is not worth it. ?In the old days it was important maybe, because there was only one choice for batteries. ? Flooding batteries is so easy and cheap and a very significant weight reducer, when faced with buying foam to support ?batteries is just not cost effective. ?A large shallow diving sub with a big volume may be different of coarse. ?In that case I would go with AGM batteries inside. ?Hank On Monday, February 20, 2017 1:49 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I first used scented baby oil ( mineral oil) in my battery box because it was cheap from the supermarket. The chemicals in the scent must have reacted with the battery acid or plates & produced a bit of gas. Not excessive, but it stopped when I changed to pure mineral oil. At least any hydrogen produced won't go in to the hull, & if the terminals are covered with oil there won't be any worry about sparking. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 21/02/2017, at 5:13 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 21 05:07:32 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 10:07:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil Compensator References: <678231454.1681069.1487671652556.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <678231454.1681069.1487671652556@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Psubbers,Hank got me thinking when he built his compensator from a pneumatic cylinder.?? Attached is a design based on how I think the commercial compensators work.It seems a great project for a 3D printer. The size for a 300ml version would be roughly 10" x 6" (250mm x 150mm) excludingthe rod. The 10" height would be in 2 sections with the tallest being 6" (thinking of printing height)?? The rolling diaphragm has a flange that is clamped between the two haves of the body& rolls down inside itself as the oil is depleted &?it is a mirror image of it's full state.It will hit the micro switch to trigger a low oil warning. Also the rod will retract giving anexternal oil level indication. ?? Commercial compensators offer pressure ranges above ambient; for instance 4-8psi.This is because the spring has more power in it's compressed state than extended state.I think the final design will be dictated by?suitable 316 stainless springs & availablesizes of rolling diaphragms. Haven't found any diaphragms locally but there are heapsin China.Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: compensator.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 218804 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 21 09:35:30 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 06:35:30 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil Compensator Message-ID: <20170221063530.5D559734@m0087791.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 21 09:38:59 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 06:38:59 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil Compensator Message-ID: <20170221063859.52602B5E@m0087797.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 21 11:30:09 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 05:30:09 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil Compensator In-Reply-To: <20170221063859.52602B5E@m0087797.ppops.net> References: <20170221063859.52602B5E@m0087797.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi Brian. The oil would fall out when you surfaced apart from anything else. There are a lot of different rolling diaphragms out there. If you do an image search on rolling diaphragm neoprene fibre reinforced; you will see some of the options. The proffesional units that I have found information on, are fibre reinforced neoprene. A boot might do! For sizing you would double the volume of the diaphragm to get how much oil it would displace through it's full range. Looking again at the design; you could buy a diaphragm with a hole in the centre &, using a threaded rod, clamp a washer either side with nuts as long as it didn't leak at that point. The switch is optional, as the rod serves as a level indicator if you mark it. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 22/02/2017, at 3:38 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, What happens if you just have the oil exposed to the water? If you turned the container ( compensator) upside down the oil would rise to the top of the container and would not be able to escape to the ocean. Wonder if that would work? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil Compensator > Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 10:07:32 +0000 (UTC) > > Hi Psubbers, > Hank got me thinking when he built his compensator from a pneumatic cylinder. > Attached is a design based on how I think the commercial compensators work. > It seems a great project for a 3D printer. > The size for a 300ml version would be roughly 10" x 6" (250mm x 150mm) excluding > the rod. The 10" height would be in 2 sections with the tallest being 6" (thinking of printing height) > The rolling diaphragm has a flange that is clamped between the two haves of the body > & rolls down inside itself as the oil is depleted & it is a mirror image of it's full state. > It will hit the micro switch to trigger a low oil warning. Also the rod will retract giving an > external oil level indication. > Commercial compensators offer pressure ranges above ambient; for instance 4-8psi. > This is because the spring has more power in it's compressed state than extended state. > I think the final design will be dictated by suitable 316 stainless springs & available > sizes of rolling diaphragms. Haven't found any diaphragms locally but there are heaps > in China. > Alan > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 21 12:38:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 09:38:49 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil Compensator Message-ID: <20170221093849.2486380E@m0087792.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 21 14:44:21 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 08:44:21 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil Compensator In-Reply-To: <20170221093849.2486380E@m0087792.ppops.net> References: <20170221093849.2486380E@m0087792.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1205E4F8-F71B-4237-83A8-BE2155995F11@yahoo.com> Brian, that would defeat the purpose of this style of compensator, which is designed to use the spring to give an internal overpressure on the motor seals. You may as well just have a bladder or a 2nd stage regulator with oil in the line. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 22/02/2017, at 6:38 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, if you had a hose running down and then up above the level of the container no fluid could escape. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil Compensator > Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 05:30:09 +1300 > > Hi Brian. > The oil would fall out when you surfaced apart from anything else. > There are a lot of different rolling diaphragms out there. > If you do an image search on rolling diaphragm neoprene fibre reinforced; > you will see some of the options. The proffesional units that I have found > information on, are fibre reinforced neoprene. A boot might do! > For sizing you would double the volume of the diaphragm to get how > much oil it would displace through it's full range. > Looking again at the design; you could buy a diaphragm with a hole in the > centre &, using a threaded rod, clamp a washer either side with nuts as long > as it didn't leak at that point. > The switch is optional, as the rod serves as a level indicator if you mark it. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 22/02/2017, at 3:38 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, What happens if you just have the oil exposed to the water? If you turned the container ( compensator) upside down the oil would rise to the top of the container and would not be able to escape to the ocean. Wonder if that would work? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil Compensator > Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 10:07:32 +0000 (UTC) > > Hi Psubbers, > Hank got me thinking when he built his compensator from a pneumatic cylinder. > Attached is a design based on how I think the commercial compensators work. > It seems a great project for a 3D printer. > The size for a 300ml version would be roughly 10" x 6" (250mm x 150mm) excluding > the rod. The 10" height would be in 2 sections with the tallest being 6" (thinking of printing height) > The rolling diaphragm has a flange that is clamped between the two haves of the body > & rolls down inside itself as the oil is depleted & it is a mirror image of it's full state. > It will hit the micro switch to trigger a low oil warning. Also the rod will retract giving an > external oil level indication. > Commercial compensators offer pressure ranges above ambient; for instance 4-8psi. > This is because the spring has more power in it's compressed state than extended state. > I think the final design will be dictated by suitable 316 stainless springs & available > sizes of rolling diaphragms. Haven't found any diaphragms locally but there are heaps > in China. > Alan > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 21 17:17:55 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 12:17:55 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] S101 In-Reply-To: <316465994.477121.1487520354218@mail.yahoo.com> References: <316465994.477121.1487520354218.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <316465994.477121.1487520354218@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Just wanted some feedback on something I would like to do. I wanted to put a 90 degree elbow on all my threaded threw hulls first and then attach all my hull stop valves to it to try and keep all the plumbing closer against the hull for a little bit more room inside. I imagine it isn't ABS approved but would this be a bad idea? The weak link of course would be the elbow. Rick On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 6:05 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Wow the S101 diesel sub is down to 135K and looking for offers. That is > pretty darn good, and what a nice machine! > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 21 17:23:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 22:23:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] S101 In-Reply-To: References: <316465994.477121.1487520354218.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <316465994.477121.1487520354218@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <822927876.2075775.1487715836545@mail.yahoo.com> Rick,Regardless if you use an elbow or nipple it is the same deal. ?Even a valve with a?male pipe end on it could break off. ?To my mind, if you can keep the valve tight to the hull it is less?likely to get knocked off and is safer.Hank On Tuesday, February 21, 2017 3:18 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just wanted some feedback on something I would like to do. I wanted to put a 90 degree elbow on all my threaded threw hulls first and then attach all my hull stop valves to it to try and keep all the plumbing closer against the hull for a little bit more room inside. I imagine it isn't ABS approved but would this be a bad idea? The weak link of course would be the elbow. Rick On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 6:05 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Wow the S101 diesel sub is down to 135K and looking for offers.? That is pretty darn good, and what a nice machine!Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 21 17:49:34 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:49:34 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil Compensator Message-ID: <20170221144934.5C13CD90@m0087796.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 21 18:36:20 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 23:36:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] S101 In-Reply-To: <822927876.2075775.1487715836545@mail.yahoo.com> References: <316465994.477121.1487520354218.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <316465994.477121.1487520354218@mail.yahoo.com> <822927876.2075775.1487715836545@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <137748961.2291268.1487720180653@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Rick,external electrical penetrators can be bought either straight or with an elbow.You may create pressure on the bend turning the valve on & off. You couldcheck how sturdy the elbows?are by tightening them up with a crescent & leaveringon the nozzle portion. Additionally you might want to support the valve so it doesn'tput any stress on the elbow.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 11:23 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] S101 Rick,Regardless if you use an elbow or nipple it is the same deal. ?Even a valve with a?male pipe end on it could break off. ?To my mind, if you can keep the valve tight to the hull it is less?likely to get knocked off and is safer.Hank On Tuesday, February 21, 2017 3:18 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just wanted some feedback on something I would like to do. I wanted to put a 90 degree elbow on all my threaded threw hulls first and then attach all my hull stop valves to it to try and keep all the plumbing closer against the hull for a little bit more room inside. I imagine it isn't ABS approved but would this be a bad idea? The weak link of course would be the elbow. Rick On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 6:05 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Wow the S101 diesel sub is down to 135K and looking for offers.? That is pretty darn good, and what a nice machine!Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 21 22:06:58 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 17:06:58 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] S101 In-Reply-To: <137748961.2291268.1487720180653@mail.yahoo.com> References: <316465994.477121.1487520354218.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <316465994.477121.1487520354218@mail.yahoo.com> <822927876.2075775.1487715836545@mail.yahoo.com> <137748961.2291268.1487720180653@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have 1/2" schedule 80 SS nipples welded in the end caps and hull in places so the valves would just screw on the nipples with nothing in between to break but wanted to keep things close as possible to the hull for room but my only concern is that I would be putting one thing between the valve and if it failed, I'd be screwed. It seems like a schedule 40 SS elbow would be pretty tough. Am I taking a change just to save some room? Anyone else out there that has done this? Rick On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 1:36 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Rick, > external electrical penetrators can be bought either straight or with an > elbow. > You may create pressure on the bend turning the valve on & off. You could > check how sturdy the elbows are by tightening them up with a crescent & > leavering > on the nozzle portion. Additionally you might want to support the valve so > it doesn't > put any stress on the elbow. > Alan > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 22, 2017 11:23 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] S101 > > Rick, > Regardless if you use an elbow or nipple it is the same deal. Even a > valve with a male pipe end on it could break off. To my mind, if you can > keep the valve tight to the hull it is less likely to get knocked off and > is safer. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, February 21, 2017 3:18 PM, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Just wanted some feedback on something I would like to do. I wanted to put > a 90 degree elbow on all my threaded threw hulls first and then attach all > my hull stop valves to it to try and keep all the plumbing closer against > the hull for a little bit more room inside. I imagine it isn't ABS approved > but would this be a bad idea? The weak link of course would be the elbow. > > Rick > > On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 6:05 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Wow the S101 diesel sub is down to 135K and looking for offers. That is > pretty darn good, and what a nice machine! > Hank > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 22 00:30:09 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 21:30:09 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] S101 Message-ID: <20170221213009.5D55307D@m0087791.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 22 12:56:57 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 07:56:57 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] S101 In-Reply-To: <20170221213009.5D55307D@m0087791.ppops.net> References: <20170221213009.5D55307D@m0087791.ppops.net> Message-ID: I don't either but has anyone done this to their sub or am I the only one to think of this? Rick On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 7:30 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, I don't think 1/2" schedule 40 at the depths you're planning > to go would be an issue. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] S101 > Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 17:06:58 -1000 > > I have 1/2" schedule 80 SS nipples welded in the end caps and hull in > places so the valves would just screw on the nipples with nothing in > between to break but wanted to keep things close as possible to the hull > for room but my only concern is that I would be putting one thing between > the valve and if it failed, I'd be screwed. It seems like a schedule 40 SS > elbow would be pretty tough. Am I taking a change just to save some room? > Anyone else out there that has done this? > > Rick > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 1:36 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Rick, > external electrical penetrators can be bought either straight or with an > elbow. > You may create pressure on the bend turning the valve on & off. You could > check how sturdy the elbows are by tightening them up with a crescent & > leavering > on the nozzle portion. Additionally you might want to support the valve so > it doesn't > put any stress on the elbow. > Alan > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 22, 2017 11:23 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] S101 > > Rick, > Regardless if you use an elbow or nipple it is the same deal. Even a > valve with a male pipe end on it could break off. To my mind, if you can > keep the valve tight to the hull it is less likely to get knocked off and > is safer. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, February 21, 2017 3:18 PM, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Just wanted some feedback on something I would like to do. I wanted to put > a 90 degree elbow on all my threaded threw hulls first and then attach all > my hull stop valves to it to try and keep all the plumbing closer against > the hull for a little bit more room inside. I imagine it isn't ABS approved > but would this be a bad idea? The weak link of course would be the elbow. > > Rick > > On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 6:05 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Wow the S101 diesel sub is down to 135K and looking for offers. That is > pretty darn good, and what a nice machine! > Hank > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 22 13:55:40 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 11:55:40 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] S101 In-Reply-To: gbBAcaWOuLF2igbBBcq0nh References: <20170221213009.5D55307D@m0087791.ppops.net> gbBAcaWOuLF2igbBBcq0nh Message-ID: The valves need to be as close as practicable to the hull penetration, but "practicable" has to take into account accessibility and ergonomics of operation in addition to mere distance. Having elbows, nipples, short tubes or similar fittings in order to facilitate a streamlined assembly or useful valve orientation wouldn't bother me in the least, provided that you don't mechanically load the intermediate fitting(s), meaning that valves have to be mounted or otherwise constrained so that grabbing the valve in a panic doesn't load those fitting(s). I would also give due consideration to the fact that failure of those intermediate fittings would likely be catastrophic, and design with heavier wall thicknesses or pressure ratings in those sections than working pressures would demand. Downstream of your hull shutoff valve, your piping needs to be appropriately designed to operating pressures. Upstream of the hull shutoff valve, it needs to be bombproof. Sean On February 22, 2017 10:56:57 AM MST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >I don't either but has anyone done this to their sub or am I the only >one >to think of this? > >Rick > >On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 7:30 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Rick, I don't think 1/2" schedule 40 at the depths you're >planning >> to go would be an issue. >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >> org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] S101 >> Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 17:06:58 -1000 >> >> I have 1/2" schedule 80 SS nipples welded in the end caps and hull in >> places so the valves would just screw on the nipples with nothing in >> between to break but wanted to keep things close as possible to the >hull >> for room but my only concern is that I would be putting one thing >between >> the valve and if it failed, I'd be screwed. It seems like a schedule >40 SS >> elbow would be pretty tough. Am I taking a change just to save some >room? >> Anyone else out there that has done this? >> >> Rick >> >> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 1:36 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >< >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi Rick, >> external electrical penetrators can be bought either straight or with >an >> elbow. >> You may create pressure on the bend turning the valve on & off. You >could >> check how sturdy the elbows are by tightening them up with a crescent >& >> leavering >> on the nozzle portion. Additionally you might want to support the >valve so >> it doesn't >> put any stress on the elbow. >> Alan >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 22, 2017 11:23 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] S101 >> >> Rick, >> Regardless if you use an elbow or nipple it is the same deal. Even a >> valve with a male pipe end on it could break off. To my mind, if you >can >> keep the valve tight to the hull it is less likely to get knocked off >and >> is safer. >> Hank >> >> >> On Tuesday, February 21, 2017 3:18 PM, Rick Patton via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Just wanted some feedback on something I would like to do. I wanted >to put >> a 90 degree elbow on all my threaded threw hulls first and then >attach all >> my hull stop valves to it to try and keep all the plumbing closer >against >> the hull for a little bit more room inside. I imagine it isn't ABS >approved >> but would this be a bad idea? The weak link of course would be the >elbow. >> >> Rick >> >> On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 6:05 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >< >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Wow the S101 diesel sub is down to 135K and looking for offers. That >is >> pretty darn good, and what a nice machine! >> Hank >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 22 17:28:36 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 14:28:36 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] S101 Message-ID: <20170222142836.5D5316B0@m0086238.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 22 18:30:33 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 13:30:33 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] S101 In-Reply-To: <20170222142836.5D5316B0@m0086238.ppops.net> References: <20170222142836.5D5316B0@m0086238.ppops.net> Message-ID: I am controlling LP air in from outside and also the purge and blow down for the VBT Rick On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 12:28 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, What are you controlling with those 1/2" valves? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] S101 > Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 07:56:57 -1000 > > I don't either but has anyone done this to their sub or am I the only one > to think of this? > > Rick > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 7:30 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Rick, I don't think 1/2" schedule 40 at the depths you're planning > to go would be an issue. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] S101 > Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 17:06:58 -1000 > > I have 1/2" schedule 80 SS nipples welded in the end caps and hull in > places so the valves would just screw on the nipples with nothing in > between to break but wanted to keep things close as possible to the hull > for room but my only concern is that I would be putting one thing between > the valve and if it failed, I'd be screwed. It seems like a schedule 40 SS > elbow would be pretty tough. Am I taking a change just to save some room? > Anyone else out there that has done this? > > Rick > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 1:36 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Rick, > external electrical penetrators can be bought either straight or with an > elbow. > You may create pressure on the bend turning the valve on & off. You could > check how sturdy the elbows are by tightening them up with a crescent & > leavering > on the nozzle portion. Additionally you might want to support the valve so > it doesn't > put any stress on the elbow. > Alan > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 22, 2017 11:23 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] S101 > > Rick, > Regardless if you use an elbow or nipple it is the same deal. Even a > valve with a male pipe end on it could break off. To my mind, if you can > keep the valve tight to the hull it is less likely to get knocked off and > is safer. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, February 21, 2017 3:18 PM, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Just wanted some feedback on something I would like to do. I wanted to put > a 90 degree elbow on all my threaded threw hulls first and then attach all > my hull stop valves to it to try and keep all the plumbing closer against > the hull for a little bit more room inside. I imagine it isn't ABS approved > but would this be a bad idea? The weak link of course would be the elbow. > > Rick > > On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 6:05 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Wow the S101 diesel sub is down to 135K and looking for offers. That is > pretty darn good, and what a nice machine! > Hank > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 22 18:45:45 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 15:45:45 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] S101 Message-ID: <20170222154545.5D5554FE@m0087791.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 23 12:54:26 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 07:54:26 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] address change Message-ID: please note that my new address is changing to satwelder at gmail.com Rick Patton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 24 16:06:46 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 16:06:46 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... Message-ID: Holy smokes is this email overdue - sorry guys - better late than never (right?). Greetings fellow PSUBBERS, Doug Jr. here with a basic trip / dive report from our October, 2016 excursion to the Florida Keys with submersible Snoopy. The group ended up being no more than my own family and my friend Mike Patterson. To start off, we had a relatively limited amount of time on location (about 6 days), considering that it was our first real trial with Snoopy. Complicating matters was the fact that October is still within hurricane season and the weather was not kind to us... we managed to be down in the Keys between (and not during) hurricanes / tropical storms, but the weather was still a major obstacle, giving us rain / thunder / lightning / strong winds / rough seas / poor water visibility... the works. Luckily the canal (of about 25 feet in depth) offered us enough shelter to conduct some test dives in spite of conditions. Snoopy herself offered us excellent service with no major issues (no leaks, no electrical issues, etc). Prior to operation, we O2 cleaned the entire oxygen system (hoses, gauge, reg, valves, etc.) and when first in the water, my dad as support diver noticed an extremely small O2 leak on the exterior reg (producing super small / slow bubbles in the water). We rectified the problem by snugging up the fittings with a wrench. With Snoopy right off the dock in the canal, we all had a great time acquainting ourselves with buoyancy and thruster control, noting the slight delay in reaction to input as well as the overall sensitivity of the controls. In terms of trimming out for proper buoyancy (via trawl floats), I had been concerned that Snoopy wouldn't provide enough positive buoyancy for two heavier occupants, but my worries were belayed soon enough when I tried to dive solo (with no floats in the tubes) and the sub was WAY too buoyant. We ended up using all of the dive weights we had on hand, plus a few 10 LB anchors that we had lying about and finally I came to nearly neutral buoyancy (I weigh about 190lbs). I don't have much doubt now that we have enough flotation in the submersible's current weight/float configuration to safely dive two heavier occupants, however, we ran out of time to test with two people aboard. Aside from limited time and poor conditions, here are a few other issues we encountered: As Alec, Steve and anyone else who rode in Snoppy down in the Keys can attest, it gets HOT in the hull when you are on the surface (even if just for a couple of minutes). Being under the dome (in the Keys) reminded me of being in a greenhouse: hot and humid. We need a better way to control the humidity within the hull (if nothing else than for the electronics' sake). Air conditioning would be a dream! I made the silly mistake of not bringing a scale for proper weight calculations (I assumed we had one at the house, but we didn't, then couldn't find any at the local drug stores!?!?). So we were doing a lot of guessing and checking when it came to trimming out. It took a while, but we ended up getting a pretty good system figured out. The only real nasty experience we had through the duration of our stay in the keys occurred when the davit we were using to launch and recover the sub failed and dropped the sub down into the water. The davits we use are rated at 5,500 LBS and Snoopy weighs in at around 2600 LBS, so no problem... when the lifting equipment is new. Problem is that these davits have galvanized cable that has a way of looking healthy on the outside but ugly within the strands (after being exposed to the elements for some time). On one of our last recoveries, the cable of the davit we were using snapped violently, dropping the sub about 5 feet through the air and right back into the canal. Thankfully, it didn't occur when we were swinging the sub over the concrete dock and no damage resulted... but it taught me a powerful lesson in being prepared for the unexpected! I know that to most of you guys these tips are common sense, but for the sake of safety, let me review a few things to consider when launching/recovering with cranes/davits: 1. Never allow anyone under (or even close to) the vessel when it's being hoisted. 2. Use at least two tag-lines to control direction and arrest sway if lifting from a single point crane. 3. Don't lift higher than necessary. 4. Inspect equipment regularly and replace components when necessary. 5. Ensure hatch is closed and secured prior to lifting (this probably saved Snoopy from going to the bottom of the canal, as the 'splash-down' was extreme). 6. (for dome hatched vessels), wrap spreader bars, pulleys, blocks and other hardware in carpet (secured by tape or zip ties) so if a failure occurs the submersible won't incur damage (another thing that saved us - the spreader bar bonked Snoopy on the head, but she was protected by thick padding). 7. Never stand in line with tensioned wire rope. When it snaps, it whips with tremendous force. Although at the time I was shocked that what happened actually occurred, in retrospect I'm happy it did, because for such a failure to occur at all, it couldn't have had a better outcome or made a stronger impression on me. Still a novice submersible operator, but getting better with each lesson I learn! ~ Douglas S. From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 24 16:18:22 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 16:18:22 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15a71fd2e98-3f1b-bff3@webprd-m105.mail.aol.com> Doug, Good going. Splashdown! Nerves tested. Toasts made. Cigars smoked. Sunset appreciated even more than usual. A good day with a few extra gray hairs ain't all bad. As to the lifting yoke, if height is a problem, go with something like a pair of long bottle screws (turnbuckles) with end closures rather than open hooks. Make sure they are long enough so that slack in the lift line will result in the yoke pivoting to one side from the sub's welded lift points. I'd do the carpet thing, too, being a belt and suspenders kind of yahoo like I am. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Fri, Feb 24, 2017 4:07 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... Holy smokes is this email overdue - sorry guys - better late than never (right?). Greetings fellow PSUBBERS, Doug Jr. here with a basic trip / dive report from our October, 2016 excursion to the Florida Keys with submersible Snoopy. The group ended up being no more than my own family and my friend Mike Patterson. To start off, we had a relatively limited amount of time on location (about 6 days), considering that it was our first real trial with Snoopy. Complicating matters was the fact that October is still within hurricane season and the weather was not kind to us... we managed to be down in the Keys between (and not during) hurricanes / tropical storms, but the weather was still a major obstacle, giving us rain / thunder / lightning / strong winds / rough seas / poor water visibility... the works. Luckily the canal (of about 25 feet in depth) offered us enough shelter to conduct some test dives in spite of conditions. Snoopy herself offered us excellent service with no major issues (no leaks, no electrical issues, etc). Prior to operation, we O2 cleaned the entire oxygen system (hoses, gauge, reg, valves, etc.) and when first in the water, my dad as support diver noticed an extremely small O2 leak on the exterior reg (producing super small / slow bubbles in the water). We rectified the problem by snugging up the fittings with a wrench. With Snoopy right off the dock in the canal, we all had a great time acquainting ourselves with buoyancy and thruster control, noting the slight delay in reaction to input as well as the overall sensitivity of the controls. In terms of trimming out for proper buoyancy (via trawl floats), I had been concerned that Snoopy wouldn't provide enough positive buoyancy for two heavier occupants, but my worries were belayed soon enough when I tried to dive solo (with no floats in the tubes) and the sub was WAY too buoyant. We ended up using all of the dive weights we had on hand, plus a few 10 LB anchors that we had lying about and finally I came to nearly neutral buoyancy (I weigh about 190lbs). I don't have much doubt now that we have enough flotation in the submersible's current weight/float configuration to safely dive two heavier occupants, however, we ran out of time to test with two people aboard. Aside from limited time and poor conditions, here are a few other issues we encountered: As Alec, Steve and anyone else who rode in Snoppy down in the Keys can attest, it gets HOT in the hull when you are on the surface (even if just for a couple of minutes). Being under the dome (in the Keys) reminded me of being in a greenhouse: hot and humid. We need a better way to control the humidity within the hull (if nothing else than for the electronics' sake). Air conditioning would be a dream! I made the silly mistake of not bringing a scale for proper weight calculations (I assumed we had one at the house, but we didn't, then couldn't find any at the local drug stores!?!?). So we were doing a lot of guessing and checking when it came to trimming out. It took a while, but we ended up getting a pretty good system figured out. The only real nasty experience we had through the duration of our stay in the keys occurred when the davit we were using to launch and recover the sub failed and dropped the sub down into the water. The davits we use are rated at 5,500 LBS and Snoopy weighs in at around 2600 LBS, so no problem... when the lifting equipment is new. Problem is that these davits have galvanized cable that has a way of looking healthy on the outside but ugly within the strands (after being exposed to the elements for some time). On one of our last recoveries, the cable of the davit we were using snapped violently, dropping the sub about 5 feet through the air and right back into the canal. Thankfully, it didn't occur when we were swinging the sub over the concrete dock and no damage resulted... but it taught me a powerful lesson in being prepared for the unexpected! I know that to most of you guys these tips are common sense, but for the sake of safety, let me review a few things to consider when launching/recovering with cranes/davits: 1. Never allow anyone under (or even close to) the vessel when it's being hoisted. 2. Use at least two tag-lines to control direction and arrest sway if lifting from a single point crane. 3. Don't lift higher than necessary. 4. Inspect equipment regularly and replace components when necessary. 5. Ensure hatch is closed and secured prior to lifting (this probably saved Snoopy from going to the bottom of the canal, as the 'splash-down' was extreme). 6. (for dome hatched vessels), wrap spreader bars, pulleys, blocks and other hardware in carpet (secured by tape or zip ties) so if a failure occurs the submersible won't incur damage (another thing that saved us - the spreader bar bonked Snoopy on the head, but she was protected by thick padding). 7. Never stand in line with tensioned wire rope. When it snaps, it whips with tremendous force. Although at the time I was shocked that what happened actually occurred, in retrospect I'm happy it did, because for such a failure to occur at all, it couldn't have had a better outcome or made a stronger impression on me. Still a novice submersible operator, but getting better with each lesson I learn! ~ Douglas S. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 24 16:27:16 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 16:27:16 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... In-Reply-To: <15a71fd2e98-3f1b-bff3@webprd-m105.mail.aol.com> References: <15a71fd2e98-3f1b-bff3@webprd-m105.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: Good idea with the turnbuckles Vance. We definitely need to update our lifting equipment down there. ~ Doug On 2/24/17, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Doug, > Good going. Splashdown! Nerves tested. Toasts made. Cigars smoked. Sunset > appreciated even more than usual. A good day with a few extra gray hairs > ain't all bad. As to the lifting yoke, if height is a problem, go with > something like a pair of long bottle screws (turnbuckles) with end closures > rather than open hooks. Make sure they are long enough so that slack in the > lift line will result in the yoke pivoting to one side from the sub's welded > lift points. I'd do the carpet thing, too, being a belt and suspenders kind > of yahoo like I am. > Vance > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Fri, Feb 24, 2017 4:07 pm > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... > > Holy smokes is this email overdue - sorry guys - better late than > never (right?). > > Greetings fellow PSUBBERS, Doug Jr. here with a basic trip / dive > report from our October, 2016 excursion to the Florida Keys with > submersible Snoopy. > > The group ended up being no more than my own family and my friend Mike > Patterson. > > To start off, we had a relatively limited amount of time on location > (about 6 days), considering that it was our first real trial with > Snoopy. Complicating matters was the fact that October is still within > hurricane season and the weather was not kind to us... we managed to > be down in the Keys between (and not during) hurricanes / tropical > storms, but the weather was still a major obstacle, giving us rain / > thunder / lightning / strong winds / rough seas / poor water > visibility... the works. Luckily the canal (of about 25 feet in depth) > offered us enough shelter to conduct some test dives in spite of > conditions. > > Snoopy herself offered us excellent service with no major issues (no > leaks, no electrical issues, etc). Prior to operation, we O2 cleaned > the entire oxygen system (hoses, gauge, reg, valves, etc.) and when > first in the water, my dad as support diver noticed an extremely small > O2 leak on the exterior reg (producing super small / slow bubbles in > the water). We rectified the problem by snugging up the fittings with > a wrench. > > With Snoopy right off the dock in the canal, we all had a great time > acquainting ourselves with buoyancy and thruster control, noting the > slight delay in reaction to input as well as the overall sensitivity > of the controls. > > In terms of trimming out for proper buoyancy (via trawl floats), I had > been concerned that Snoopy wouldn't provide enough positive buoyancy > for two heavier occupants, but my worries were belayed soon enough > when I tried to dive solo (with no floats in the tubes) and the sub > was WAY too buoyant. We ended up using all of the dive weights we had > on hand, plus a few 10 LB anchors that we had lying about and finally > I came to nearly neutral buoyancy (I weigh about 190lbs). > > I don't have much doubt now that we have enough flotation in the > submersible's current weight/float configuration to safely dive two > heavier occupants, however, we ran out of time to test with two people > aboard. > > Aside from limited time and poor conditions, here are a few other > issues we encountered: As Alec, Steve and anyone else who rode in > Snoppy down in the Keys can attest, it gets HOT in the hull when you > are on the surface (even if just for a couple of minutes). Being under > the dome (in the Keys) reminded me of being in a greenhouse: hot and > humid. We need a better way to control the humidity within the hull > (if nothing else than for the electronics' sake). Air conditioning > would be a dream! > > I made the silly mistake of not bringing a scale for proper weight > calculations (I assumed we had one at the house, but we didn't, then > couldn't find any at the local drug stores!?!?). So we were doing a > lot of guessing and checking when it came to trimming out. It took a > while, but we ended up getting a pretty good system figured out. > > The only real nasty experience we had through the duration of our stay > in the keys occurred when the davit we were using to launch and > recover the sub failed and dropped the sub down into the water. The > davits we use are rated at 5,500 LBS and Snoopy weighs in at around > 2600 LBS, so no problem... when the lifting equipment is new. Problem > is that these davits have galvanized cable that has a way of looking > healthy on the outside but ugly within the strands (after being > exposed to the elements for some time). On one of our last recoveries, > the cable of the davit we were using snapped violently, dropping the > sub about 5 feet through the air and right back into the canal. > Thankfully, it didn't occur when we were swinging the sub over the > concrete dock and no damage resulted... but it taught me a powerful > lesson in being prepared for the unexpected! > > I know that to most of you guys these tips are common sense, but for > the sake of safety, let me review a few things to consider when > launching/recovering with cranes/davits: > > 1. Never allow anyone under (or even close to) the vessel when it's > being hoisted. > 2. Use at least two tag-lines to control direction and arrest sway if > lifting from a single point crane. > 3. Don't lift higher than necessary. > 4. Inspect equipment regularly and replace components when necessary. > 5. Ensure hatch is closed and secured prior to lifting (this probably > saved Snoopy from going to the bottom of the canal, as the > 'splash-down' was extreme). > 6. (for dome hatched vessels), wrap spreader bars, pulleys, blocks and > other hardware in carpet (secured by tape or zip ties) so if a failure > occurs the submersible won't incur damage (another thing that saved us > - the spreader bar bonked Snoopy on the head, but she was protected by > thick padding). > 7. Never stand in line with tensioned wire rope. When it snaps, it > whips with tremendous force. > > Although at the time I was shocked that what happened actually > occurred, in retrospect I'm happy it did, because for such a failure > to occur at all, it couldn't have had a better outcome or made a > stronger impression on me. Still a novice submersible operator, but > getting better with each lesson I learn! ~ Douglas S. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 24 16:43:12 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 16:43:12 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <15a7213eb93-3f1b-c129@webprd-m105.mail.aol.com> Hey, look at the silver lining. It's busted. You can upgrade. Woo hoo! -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Fri, Feb 24, 2017 4:27 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... Good idea with the turnbuckles Vance. We definitely need to update our lifting equipment down there. ~ Doug On 2/24/17, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Doug, > Good going. Splashdown! Nerves tested. Toasts made. Cigars smoked. Sunset > appreciated even more than usual. A good day with a few extra gray hairs > ain't all bad. As to the lifting yoke, if height is a problem, go with > something like a pair of long bottle screws (turnbuckles) with end closures > rather than open hooks. Make sure they are long enough so that slack in the > lift line will result in the yoke pivoting to one side from the sub's welded > lift points. I'd do the carpet thing, too, being a belt and suspenders kind > of yahoo like I am. > Vance > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Fri, Feb 24, 2017 4:07 pm > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... > > Holy smokes is this email overdue - sorry guys - better late than > never (right?). > > Greetings fellow PSUBBERS, Doug Jr. here with a basic trip / dive > report from our October, 2016 excursion to the Florida Keys with > submersible Snoopy. > > The group ended up being no more than my own family and my friend Mike > Patterson. > > To start off, we had a relatively limited amount of time on location > (about 6 days), considering that it was our first real trial with > Snoopy. Complicating matters was the fact that October is still within > hurricane season and the weather was not kind to us... we managed to > be down in the Keys between (and not during) hurricanes / tropical > storms, but the weather was still a major obstacle, giving us rain / > thunder / lightning / strong winds / rough seas / poor water > visibility... the works. Luckily the canal (of about 25 feet in depth) > offered us enough shelter to conduct some test dives in spite of > conditions. > > Snoopy herself offered us excellent service with no major issues (no > leaks, no electrical issues, etc). Prior to operation, we O2 cleaned > the entire oxygen system (hoses, gauge, reg, valves, etc.) and when > first in the water, my dad as support diver noticed an extremely small > O2 leak on the exterior reg (producing super small / slow bubbles in > the water). We rectified the problem by snugging up the fittings with > a wrench. > > With Snoopy right off the dock in the canal, we all had a great time > acquainting ourselves with buoyancy and thruster control, noting the > slight delay in reaction to input as well as the overall sensitivity > of the controls. > > In terms of trimming out for proper buoyancy (via trawl floats), I had > been concerned that Snoopy wouldn't provide enough positive buoyancy > for two heavier occupants, but my worries were belayed soon enough > when I tried to dive solo (with no floats in the tubes) and the sub > was WAY too buoyant. We ended up using all of the dive weights we had > on hand, plus a few 10 LB anchors that we had lying about and finally > I came to nearly neutral buoyancy (I weigh about 190lbs). > > I don't have much doubt now that we have enough flotation in the > submersible's current weight/float configuration to safely dive two > heavier occupants, however, we ran out of time to test with two people > aboard. > > Aside from limited time and poor conditions, here are a few other > issues we encountered: As Alec, Steve and anyone else who rode in > Snoppy down in the Keys can attest, it gets HOT in the hull when you > are on the surface (even if just for a couple of minutes). Being under > the dome (in the Keys) reminded me of being in a greenhouse: hot and > humid. We need a better way to control the humidity within the hull > (if nothing else than for the electronics' sake). Air conditioning > would be a dream! > > I made the silly mistake of not bringing a scale for proper weight > calculations (I assumed we had one at the house, but we didn't, then > couldn't find any at the local drug stores!?!?). So we were doing a > lot of guessing and checking when it came to trimming out. It took a > while, but we ended up getting a pretty good system figured out. > > The only real nasty experience we had through the duration of our stay > in the keys occurred when the davit we were using to launch and > recover the sub failed and dropped the sub down into the water. The > davits we use are rated at 5,500 LBS and Snoopy weighs in at around > 2600 LBS, so no problem... when the lifting equipment is new. Problem > is that these davits have galvanized cable that has a way of looking > healthy on the outside but ugly within the strands (after being > exposed to the elements for some time). On one of our last recoveries, > the cable of the davit we were using snapped violently, dropping the > sub about 5 feet through the air and right back into the canal. > Thankfully, it didn't occur when we were swinging the sub over the > concrete dock and no damage resulted... but it taught me a powerful > lesson in being prepared for the unexpected! > > I know that to most of you guys these tips are common sense, but for > the sake of safety, let me review a few things to consider when > launching/recovering with cranes/davits: > > 1. Never allow anyone under (or even close to) the vessel when it's > being hoisted. > 2. Use at least two tag-lines to control direction and arrest sway if > lifting from a single point crane. > 3. Don't lift higher than necessary. > 4. Inspect equipment regularly and replace components when necessary. > 5. Ensure hatch is closed and secured prior to lifting (this probably > saved Snoopy from going to the bottom of the canal, as the > 'splash-down' was extreme). > 6. (for dome hatched vessels), wrap spreader bars, pulleys, blocks and > other hardware in carpet (secured by tape or zip ties) so if a failure > occurs the submersible won't incur damage (another thing that saved us > - the spreader bar bonked Snoopy on the head, but she was protected by > thick padding). > 7. Never stand in line with tensioned wire rope. When it snaps, it > whips with tremendous force. > > Although at the time I was shocked that what happened actually > occurred, in retrospect I'm happy it did, because for such a failure > to occur at all, it couldn't have had a better outcome or made a > stronger impression on me. Still a novice submersible operator, but > getting better with each lesson I learn! ~ Douglas S. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 24 16:48:29 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 10:48:29 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9F64F848-8CB2-49A0-98FA-32A270328C6D@yahoo.com> Thanks Doug, great report. As far as heat is concerned; air conditioning is very expensive on power. I have read of commercial operations pumping cooled air into the hull before boarding. You could do this easy enough in your canal by running an extension cord to an air conditioner. This won't help when you tow off the coast. It might be a bit tricky trying to pump air in from your boat in rough conditions. One solution we have talked about is a chilli bin full of ice with a fan blowing air through it. Here is 1 of many videos on how to make one. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I2LqIbm4cFI This guy suggests that you may also want to stick liquid refreshments in the chilli bin. They do sell air conditioning units for small boats. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/02/2017, at 10:06 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Holy smokes is this email overdue - sorry guys - better late than > never (right?). > > Greetings fellow PSUBBERS, Doug Jr. here with a basic trip / dive > report from our October, 2016 excursion to the Florida Keys with > submersible Snoopy. > > The group ended up being no more than my own family and my friend Mike > Patterson. > > To start off, we had a relatively limited amount of time on location > (about 6 days), considering that it was our first real trial with > Snoopy. Complicating matters was the fact that October is still within > hurricane season and the weather was not kind to us... we managed to > be down in the Keys between (and not during) hurricanes / tropical > storms, but the weather was still a major obstacle, giving us rain / > thunder / lightning / strong winds / rough seas / poor water > visibility... the works. Luckily the canal (of about 25 feet in depth) > offered us enough shelter to conduct some test dives in spite of > conditions. > > Snoopy herself offered us excellent service with no major issues (no > leaks, no electrical issues, etc). Prior to operation, we O2 cleaned > the entire oxygen system (hoses, gauge, reg, valves, etc.) and when > first in the water, my dad as support diver noticed an extremely small > O2 leak on the exterior reg (producing super small / slow bubbles in > the water). We rectified the problem by snugging up the fittings with > a wrench. > > With Snoopy right off the dock in the canal, we all had a great time > acquainting ourselves with buoyancy and thruster control, noting the > slight delay in reaction to input as well as the overall sensitivity > of the controls. > > In terms of trimming out for proper buoyancy (via trawl floats), I had > been concerned that Snoopy wouldn't provide enough positive buoyancy > for two heavier occupants, but my worries were belayed soon enough > when I tried to dive solo (with no floats in the tubes) and the sub > was WAY too buoyant. We ended up using all of the dive weights we had > on hand, plus a few 10 LB anchors that we had lying about and finally > I came to nearly neutral buoyancy (I weigh about 190lbs). > > I don't have much doubt now that we have enough flotation in the > submersible's current weight/float configuration to safely dive two > heavier occupants, however, we ran out of time to test with two people > aboard. > > Aside from limited time and poor conditions, here are a few other > issues we encountered: As Alec, Steve and anyone else who rode in > Snoppy down in the Keys can attest, it gets HOT in the hull when you > are on the surface (even if just for a couple of minutes). Being under > the dome (in the Keys) reminded me of being in a greenhouse: hot and > humid. We need a better way to control the humidity within the hull > (if nothing else than for the electronics' sake). Air conditioning > would be a dream! > > I made the silly mistake of not bringing a scale for proper weight > calculations (I assumed we had one at the house, but we didn't, then > couldn't find any at the local drug stores!?!?). So we were doing a > lot of guessing and checking when it came to trimming out. It took a > while, but we ended up getting a pretty good system figured out. > > The only real nasty experience we had through the duration of our stay > in the keys occurred when the davit we were using to launch and > recover the sub failed and dropped the sub down into the water. The > davits we use are rated at 5,500 LBS and Snoopy weighs in at around > 2600 LBS, so no problem... when the lifting equipment is new. Problem > is that these davits have galvanized cable that has a way of looking > healthy on the outside but ugly within the strands (after being > exposed to the elements for some time). On one of our last recoveries, > the cable of the davit we were using snapped violently, dropping the > sub about 5 feet through the air and right back into the canal. > Thankfully, it didn't occur when we were swinging the sub over the > concrete dock and no damage resulted... but it taught me a powerful > lesson in being prepared for the unexpected! > > I know that to most of you guys these tips are common sense, but for > the sake of safety, let me review a few things to consider when > launching/recovering with cranes/davits: > > 1. Never allow anyone under (or even close to) the vessel when it's > being hoisted. > 2. Use at least two tag-lines to control direction and arrest sway if > lifting from a single point crane. > 3. Don't lift higher than necessary. > 4. Inspect equipment regularly and replace components when necessary. > 5. Ensure hatch is closed and secured prior to lifting (this probably > saved Snoopy from going to the bottom of the canal, as the > 'splash-down' was extreme). > 6. (for dome hatched vessels), wrap spreader bars, pulleys, blocks and > other hardware in carpet (secured by tape or zip ties) so if a failure > occurs the submersible won't incur damage (another thing that saved us > - the spreader bar bonked Snoopy on the head, but she was protected by > thick padding). > 7. Never stand in line with tensioned wire rope. When it snaps, it > whips with tremendous force. > > Although at the time I was shocked that what happened actually > occurred, in retrospect I'm happy it did, because for such a failure > to occur at all, it couldn't have had a better outcome or made a > stronger impression on me. Still a novice submersible operator, but > getting better with each lesson I learn! ~ Douglas S. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 24 17:22:41 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 17:22:41 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... In-Reply-To: <9F64F848-8CB2-49A0-98FA-32A270328C6D@yahoo.com> References: <9F64F848-8CB2-49A0-98FA-32A270328C6D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Vance, that's definitely the way to look at it. Much rather spend a few hundred on new hardware than a few thousand on boat / sub repair! Alan, I like the idea of the ice chest with blower... seems like it's simple, safe, cheap and probably (at least) somewhat helpful in cooling things off. Only thing is, once your ice has melted, perhaps it would actually increase humidity? I guess you'd need a way to cap it off after its effective use. It runs in my mind that someone here on PSUBS recently tried to build one (maybe Brian Cox or Brian Hughes?). ~ Doug On 2/24/17, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks Doug, great report. > As far as heat is concerned; air conditioning is very expensive > on power. > I have read of commercial operations pumping cooled air into > the hull before boarding. You could do this easy enough in your > canal by running an extension cord to an air conditioner. > This won't help when you tow off the coast. It might be a bit tricky > trying to pump air in from your boat in rough conditions. > One solution we have talked about is a chilli bin full of ice with > a fan blowing air through it. > Here is 1 of many videos on how to make one. > https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I2LqIbm4cFI > This guy suggests that you may also want to stick liquid refreshments > in the chilli bin. > They do sell air conditioning units for small boats. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 25/02/2017, at 10:06 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Holy smokes is this email overdue - sorry guys - better late than >> never (right?). >> >> Greetings fellow PSUBBERS, Doug Jr. here with a basic trip / dive >> report from our October, 2016 excursion to the Florida Keys with >> submersible Snoopy. >> >> The group ended up being no more than my own family and my friend Mike >> Patterson. >> >> To start off, we had a relatively limited amount of time on location >> (about 6 days), considering that it was our first real trial with >> Snoopy. Complicating matters was the fact that October is still within >> hurricane season and the weather was not kind to us... we managed to >> be down in the Keys between (and not during) hurricanes / tropical >> storms, but the weather was still a major obstacle, giving us rain / >> thunder / lightning / strong winds / rough seas / poor water >> visibility... the works. Luckily the canal (of about 25 feet in depth) >> offered us enough shelter to conduct some test dives in spite of >> conditions. >> >> Snoopy herself offered us excellent service with no major issues (no >> leaks, no electrical issues, etc). Prior to operation, we O2 cleaned >> the entire oxygen system (hoses, gauge, reg, valves, etc.) and when >> first in the water, my dad as support diver noticed an extremely small >> O2 leak on the exterior reg (producing super small / slow bubbles in >> the water). We rectified the problem by snugging up the fittings with >> a wrench. >> >> With Snoopy right off the dock in the canal, we all had a great time >> acquainting ourselves with buoyancy and thruster control, noting the >> slight delay in reaction to input as well as the overall sensitivity >> of the controls. >> >> In terms of trimming out for proper buoyancy (via trawl floats), I had >> been concerned that Snoopy wouldn't provide enough positive buoyancy >> for two heavier occupants, but my worries were belayed soon enough >> when I tried to dive solo (with no floats in the tubes) and the sub >> was WAY too buoyant. We ended up using all of the dive weights we had >> on hand, plus a few 10 LB anchors that we had lying about and finally >> I came to nearly neutral buoyancy (I weigh about 190lbs). >> >> I don't have much doubt now that we have enough flotation in the >> submersible's current weight/float configuration to safely dive two >> heavier occupants, however, we ran out of time to test with two people >> aboard. >> >> Aside from limited time and poor conditions, here are a few other >> issues we encountered: As Alec, Steve and anyone else who rode in >> Snoppy down in the Keys can attest, it gets HOT in the hull when you >> are on the surface (even if just for a couple of minutes). Being under >> the dome (in the Keys) reminded me of being in a greenhouse: hot and >> humid. We need a better way to control the humidity within the hull >> (if nothing else than for the electronics' sake). Air conditioning >> would be a dream! >> >> I made the silly mistake of not bringing a scale for proper weight >> calculations (I assumed we had one at the house, but we didn't, then >> couldn't find any at the local drug stores!?!?). So we were doing a >> lot of guessing and checking when it came to trimming out. It took a >> while, but we ended up getting a pretty good system figured out. >> >> The only real nasty experience we had through the duration of our stay >> in the keys occurred when the davit we were using to launch and >> recover the sub failed and dropped the sub down into the water. The >> davits we use are rated at 5,500 LBS and Snoopy weighs in at around >> 2600 LBS, so no problem... when the lifting equipment is new. Problem >> is that these davits have galvanized cable that has a way of looking >> healthy on the outside but ugly within the strands (after being >> exposed to the elements for some time). On one of our last recoveries, >> the cable of the davit we were using snapped violently, dropping the >> sub about 5 feet through the air and right back into the canal. >> Thankfully, it didn't occur when we were swinging the sub over the >> concrete dock and no damage resulted... but it taught me a powerful >> lesson in being prepared for the unexpected! >> >> I know that to most of you guys these tips are common sense, but for >> the sake of safety, let me review a few things to consider when >> launching/recovering with cranes/davits: >> >> 1. Never allow anyone under (or even close to) the vessel when it's >> being hoisted. >> 2. Use at least two tag-lines to control direction and arrest sway if >> lifting from a single point crane. >> 3. Don't lift higher than necessary. >> 4. Inspect equipment regularly and replace components when necessary. >> 5. Ensure hatch is closed and secured prior to lifting (this probably >> saved Snoopy from going to the bottom of the canal, as the >> 'splash-down' was extreme). >> 6. (for dome hatched vessels), wrap spreader bars, pulleys, blocks and >> other hardware in carpet (secured by tape or zip ties) so if a failure >> occurs the submersible won't incur damage (another thing that saved us >> - the spreader bar bonked Snoopy on the head, but she was protected by >> thick padding). >> 7. Never stand in line with tensioned wire rope. When it snaps, it >> whips with tremendous force. >> >> Although at the time I was shocked that what happened actually >> occurred, in retrospect I'm happy it did, because for such a failure >> to occur at all, it couldn't have had a better outcome or made a >> stronger impression on me. Still a novice submersible operator, but >> getting better with each lesson I learn! ~ Douglas S. >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 24 17:44:21 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 22:44:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... In-Reply-To: References: <9F64F848-8CB2-49A0-98FA-32A270328C6D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1063250921.622646.1487976261670@mail.yahoo.com> Doug,Even up here in Canada it gets pretty darn hot in the sub at the surface while travelling to the dive spot. ?I have a engine compartment fan (400cfm) ?for air circulation and for pumping in outside air. ?Just the fan inside will keep the sub cool enough. ?In fact I usually don't have to run the fan constantly.Good report! ?A sub with no scratches is an unused sub.Hank On Friday, February 24, 2017 3:22 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Vance, that's definitely the way to look at it. Much rather spend a few hundred on new hardware than a few thousand on boat / sub repair! Alan, I like the idea of the ice chest with blower... seems like it's simple, safe, cheap and probably (at least) somewhat helpful in cooling things off. Only thing is, once your ice has melted, perhaps it would actually increase humidity? I guess you'd need a way to cap it off after its effective use. It runs in my mind that someone here on PSUBS recently tried to build one (maybe Brian Cox or Brian Hughes?). ~ Doug On 2/24/17, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks Doug, great report. > As far as heat is concerned; air conditioning is very expensive > on power. > I have read of commercial operations pumping cooled air into > the hull before boarding. You could do this easy enough in your > canal by running an extension cord to an air conditioner. > This won't help when you tow off the coast. It might be a bit tricky >? trying to pump air in from your boat in rough conditions. > One solution we have talked about is a chilli bin full of ice with > a fan blowing air through it. > Here is 1 of many videos on how to make one. > https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I2LqIbm4cFI > This guy suggests that you may also want to stick liquid refreshments > in the chilli bin. > They do sell air conditioning units for small boats. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 25/02/2017, at 10:06 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Holy smokes is this email overdue - sorry guys - better late than >> never (right?). >> >> Greetings fellow PSUBBERS, Doug Jr. here with a basic trip / dive >> report from our October, 2016 excursion to the Florida Keys with >> submersible Snoopy. >> >> The group ended up being no more than my own family and my friend Mike >> Patterson. >> >> To start off, we had a relatively limited amount of time on location >> (about 6 days), considering that it was our first real trial with >> Snoopy. Complicating matters was the fact that October is still within >> hurricane season and the weather was not kind to us... we managed to >> be down in the Keys between (and not during) hurricanes / tropical >> storms, but the weather was still a major obstacle, giving us rain / >> thunder / lightning / strong winds / rough seas / poor water >> visibility... the works. Luckily the canal (of about 25 feet in depth) >> offered us enough shelter to conduct some test dives in spite of >> conditions. >> >> Snoopy herself offered us excellent service with no major issues (no >> leaks, no electrical issues, etc). Prior to operation, we O2 cleaned >> the entire oxygen system (hoses, gauge, reg, valves, etc.) and when >> first in the water, my dad as support diver noticed an extremely small >> O2 leak on the exterior reg (producing super small / slow bubbles in >> the water). We rectified the problem by snugging up the fittings with >> a wrench. >> >> With Snoopy right off the? dock in the canal, we all had a great time >> acquainting ourselves with buoyancy and thruster control, noting the >> slight delay in reaction to input as well as the overall sensitivity >> of the controls. >> >> In terms of trimming out for proper buoyancy (via trawl floats), I had >> been concerned that Snoopy wouldn't provide enough positive buoyancy >> for two heavier occupants, but my worries were belayed soon enough >> when I tried to dive solo (with no floats in the tubes) and the sub >> was WAY too buoyant. We ended up using all of the dive weights we had >> on hand, plus a few 10 LB anchors that we had lying about and finally >> I came to nearly neutral buoyancy (I weigh about 190lbs). >> >> I don't have much doubt now that we have enough flotation in the >> submersible's current weight/float configuration to safely dive two >> heavier occupants, however, we ran out of time to test with two people >> aboard. >> >> Aside from limited time and poor conditions, here are a few other >> issues we encountered: As Alec, Steve and anyone else who rode in >> Snoppy down in the Keys can attest, it gets HOT in the hull when you >> are on the surface (even if just for a couple of minutes). Being under >> the dome (in the Keys) reminded me of being in a greenhouse: hot and >> humid. We need a better way to control the humidity within the hull >> (if nothing else than for the electronics' sake). Air conditioning >> would be a dream! >> >> I made the silly mistake of not bringing a scale for proper weight >> calculations (I assumed we had one at the house, but we didn't, then >> couldn't find any at the local drug stores!?!?). So we were doing a >> lot of guessing and checking when it came to trimming out. It took a >> while, but we ended up getting a pretty good system figured out. >> >> The only real nasty experience we had through the duration of our stay >> in the keys occurred when the davit we were using to launch and >> recover the sub failed and dropped the sub down into the water. The >> davits we use are rated at 5,500 LBS and Snoopy weighs in at around >> 2600 LBS, so no problem... when the lifting equipment is new. Problem >> is that these davits have galvanized cable that has a way of looking >> healthy on the outside but ugly within the strands (after being >> exposed to the elements for some time). On one of our last recoveries, >> the cable of the davit we were using snapped violently, dropping the >> sub about 5 feet through the air and right back into the canal. >> Thankfully, it didn't occur when we were swinging the sub over the >> concrete dock and no damage resulted... but it taught me a powerful >> lesson in being prepared for the unexpected! >> >> I know that to most of you guys these tips are common sense, but for >> the sake of safety, let me review a few things to consider when >> launching/recovering with cranes/davits: >> >> 1. Never allow anyone under (or even close to) the vessel when it's >> being hoisted. >> 2. Use at least two tag-lines to control direction and arrest sway if >> lifting from a single point crane. >> 3. Don't lift higher than necessary. >> 4. Inspect equipment regularly and replace components when necessary. >> 5. Ensure hatch is closed and secured prior to lifting (this probably >> saved Snoopy from going to the bottom of the canal, as the >> 'splash-down' was extreme). >> 6. (for dome hatched vessels), wrap spreader bars, pulleys, blocks and >> other hardware in carpet (secured by tape or zip ties) so if a failure >> occurs the submersible won't incur damage (another thing that saved us >> - the spreader bar bonked Snoopy on the head, but she was protected by >> thick padding). >> 7. Never stand in line with tensioned wire rope. When it snaps, it >> whips with tremendous force. >> >> Although at the time I was shocked that what happened actually >> occurred, in retrospect I'm happy it did, because for such a failure >> to occur at all, it couldn't have had a better outcome or made a >> stronger impression on me. Still a novice submersible operator, but >> getting better with each lesson I learn! ~ Douglas S. >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 24 18:00:29 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 12:00:29 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... In-Reply-To: References: <9F64F848-8CB2-49A0-98FA-32A270328C6D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1E46A8C4-7AA4-4041-A234-C2D1E4BBA04A@yahoo.com> Doug, you could just fill it with bags of ice if you are concerned about humidity. You know the trick about smearing the dome with dish washing liquid to stop it fogging? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/02/2017, at 11:22 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Vance, that's definitely the way to look at it. Much rather spend a > few hundred on new hardware than a few thousand on boat / sub repair! > > Alan, I like the idea of the ice chest with blower... seems like it's > simple, safe, cheap and probably (at least) somewhat helpful in > cooling things off. Only thing is, once your ice has melted, perhaps > it would actually increase humidity? I guess you'd need a way to cap > it off after its effective use. > > It runs in my mind that someone here on PSUBS recently tried to build > one (maybe Brian Cox or Brian Hughes?). ~ Doug > > On 2/24/17, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> Thanks Doug, great report. >> As far as heat is concerned; air conditioning is very expensive >> on power. >> I have read of commercial operations pumping cooled air into >> the hull before boarding. You could do this easy enough in your >> canal by running an extension cord to an air conditioner. >> This won't help when you tow off the coast. It might be a bit tricky >> trying to pump air in from your boat in rough conditions. >> One solution we have talked about is a chilli bin full of ice with >> a fan blowing air through it. >> Here is 1 of many videos on how to make one. >> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I2LqIbm4cFI >> This guy suggests that you may also want to stick liquid refreshments >> in the chilli bin. >> They do sell air conditioning units for small boats. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 25/02/2017, at 10:06 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> Holy smokes is this email overdue - sorry guys - better late than >>> never (right?). >>> >>> Greetings fellow PSUBBERS, Doug Jr. here with a basic trip / dive >>> report from our October, 2016 excursion to the Florida Keys with >>> submersible Snoopy. >>> >>> The group ended up being no more than my own family and my friend Mike >>> Patterson. >>> >>> To start off, we had a relatively limited amount of time on location >>> (about 6 days), considering that it was our first real trial with >>> Snoopy. Complicating matters was the fact that October is still within >>> hurricane season and the weather was not kind to us... we managed to >>> be down in the Keys between (and not during) hurricanes / tropical >>> storms, but the weather was still a major obstacle, giving us rain / >>> thunder / lightning / strong winds / rough seas / poor water >>> visibility... the works. Luckily the canal (of about 25 feet in depth) >>> offered us enough shelter to conduct some test dives in spite of >>> conditions. >>> >>> Snoopy herself offered us excellent service with no major issues (no >>> leaks, no electrical issues, etc). Prior to operation, we O2 cleaned >>> the entire oxygen system (hoses, gauge, reg, valves, etc.) and when >>> first in the water, my dad as support diver noticed an extremely small >>> O2 leak on the exterior reg (producing super small / slow bubbles in >>> the water). We rectified the problem by snugging up the fittings with >>> a wrench. >>> >>> With Snoopy right off the dock in the canal, we all had a great time >>> acquainting ourselves with buoyancy and thruster control, noting the >>> slight delay in reaction to input as well as the overall sensitivity >>> of the controls. >>> >>> In terms of trimming out for proper buoyancy (via trawl floats), I had >>> been concerned that Snoopy wouldn't provide enough positive buoyancy >>> for two heavier occupants, but my worries were belayed soon enough >>> when I tried to dive solo (with no floats in the tubes) and the sub >>> was WAY too buoyant. We ended up using all of the dive weights we had >>> on hand, plus a few 10 LB anchors that we had lying about and finally >>> I came to nearly neutral buoyancy (I weigh about 190lbs). >>> >>> I don't have much doubt now that we have enough flotation in the >>> submersible's current weight/float configuration to safely dive two >>> heavier occupants, however, we ran out of time to test with two people >>> aboard. >>> >>> Aside from limited time and poor conditions, here are a few other >>> issues we encountered: As Alec, Steve and anyone else who rode in >>> Snoppy down in the Keys can attest, it gets HOT in the hull when you >>> are on the surface (even if just for a couple of minutes). Being under >>> the dome (in the Keys) reminded me of being in a greenhouse: hot and >>> humid. We need a better way to control the humidity within the hull >>> (if nothing else than for the electronics' sake). Air conditioning >>> would be a dream! >>> >>> I made the silly mistake of not bringing a scale for proper weight >>> calculations (I assumed we had one at the house, but we didn't, then >>> couldn't find any at the local drug stores!?!?). So we were doing a >>> lot of guessing and checking when it came to trimming out. It took a >>> while, but we ended up getting a pretty good system figured out. >>> >>> The only real nasty experience we had through the duration of our stay >>> in the keys occurred when the davit we were using to launch and >>> recover the sub failed and dropped the sub down into the water. The >>> davits we use are rated at 5,500 LBS and Snoopy weighs in at around >>> 2600 LBS, so no problem... when the lifting equipment is new. Problem >>> is that these davits have galvanized cable that has a way of looking >>> healthy on the outside but ugly within the strands (after being >>> exposed to the elements for some time). On one of our last recoveries, >>> the cable of the davit we were using snapped violently, dropping the >>> sub about 5 feet through the air and right back into the canal. >>> Thankfully, it didn't occur when we were swinging the sub over the >>> concrete dock and no damage resulted... but it taught me a powerful >>> lesson in being prepared for the unexpected! >>> >>> I know that to most of you guys these tips are common sense, but for >>> the sake of safety, let me review a few things to consider when >>> launching/recovering with cranes/davits: >>> >>> 1. Never allow anyone under (or even close to) the vessel when it's >>> being hoisted. >>> 2. Use at least two tag-lines to control direction and arrest sway if >>> lifting from a single point crane. >>> 3. Don't lift higher than necessary. >>> 4. Inspect equipment regularly and replace components when necessary. >>> 5. Ensure hatch is closed and secured prior to lifting (this probably >>> saved Snoopy from going to the bottom of the canal, as the >>> 'splash-down' was extreme). >>> 6. (for dome hatched vessels), wrap spreader bars, pulleys, blocks and >>> other hardware in carpet (secured by tape or zip ties) so if a failure >>> occurs the submersible won't incur damage (another thing that saved us >>> - the spreader bar bonked Snoopy on the head, but she was protected by >>> thick padding). >>> 7. Never stand in line with tensioned wire rope. When it snaps, it >>> whips with tremendous force. >>> >>> Although at the time I was shocked that what happened actually >>> occurred, in retrospect I'm happy it did, because for such a failure >>> to occur at all, it couldn't have had a better outcome or made a >>> stronger impression on me. Still a novice submersible operator, but >>> getting better with each lesson I learn! ~ Douglas S. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 24 18:30:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 18:30:56 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... In-Reply-To: <9F64F848-8CB2-49A0-98FA-32A270328C6D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15a72768f14-4f54-ca73@webprd-m58.mail.aol.com> Put up a Jimmy Buffet umbrella. You'd be surprised how much difference it makes to take the direct sunlight off that dome. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Fri, Feb 24, 2017 4:48 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... Thanks Doug, great report. As far as heat is concerned; air conditioning is very expensive on power. I have read of commercial operations pumping cooled air into the hull before boarding. You could do this easy enough in your canal by running an extension cord to an air conditioner. This won't help when you tow off the coast. It might be a bit tricky trying to pump air in from your boat in rough conditions. One solution we have talked about is a chilli bin full of ice with a fan blowing air through it. Here is 1 of many videos on how to make one. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I2LqIbm4cFI This guy suggests that you may also want to stick liquid refreshments in the chilli bin. They do sell air conditioning units for small boats. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/02/2017, at 10:06 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Holy smokes is this email overdue - sorry guys - better late than > never (right?). > > Greetings fellow PSUBBERS, Doug Jr. here with a basic trip / dive > report from our October, 2016 excursion to the Florida Keys with > submersible Snoopy. > > The group ended up being no more than my own family and my friend Mike > Patterson. > > To start off, we had a relatively limited amount of time on location > (about 6 days), considering that it was our first real trial with > Snoopy. Complicating matters was the fact that October is still within > hurricane season and the weather was not kind to us... we managed to > be down in the Keys between (and not during) hurricanes / tropical > storms, but the weather was still a major obstacle, giving us rain / > thunder / lightning / strong winds / rough seas / poor water > visibility... the works. Luckily the canal (of about 25 feet in depth) > offered us enough shelter to conduct some test dives in spite of > conditions. > > Snoopy herself offered us excellent service with no major issues (no > leaks, no electrical issues, etc). Prior to operation, we O2 cleaned > the entire oxygen system (hoses, gauge, reg, valves, etc.) and when > first in the water, my dad as support diver noticed an extremely small > O2 leak on the exterior reg (producing super small / slow bubbles in > the water). We rectified the problem by snugging up the fittings with > a wrench. > > With Snoopy right off the dock in the canal, we all had a great time > acquainting ourselves with buoyancy and thruster control, noting the > slight delay in reaction to input as well as the overall sensitivity > of the controls. > > In terms of trimming out for proper buoyancy (via trawl floats), I had > been concerned that Snoopy wouldn't provide enough positive buoyancy > for two heavier occupants, but my worries were belayed soon enough > when I tried to dive solo (with no floats in the tubes) and the sub > was WAY too buoyant. We ended up using all of the dive weights we had > on hand, plus a few 10 LB anchors that we had lying about and finally > I came to nearly neutral buoyancy (I weigh about 190lbs). > > I don't have much doubt now that we have enough flotation in the > submersible's current weight/float configuration to safely dive two > heavier occupants, however, we ran out of time to test with two people > aboard. > > Aside from limited time and poor conditions, here are a few other > issues we encountered: As Alec, Steve and anyone else who rode in > Snoppy down in the Keys can attest, it gets HOT in the hull when you > are on the surface (even if just for a couple of minutes). Being under > the dome (in the Keys) reminded me of being in a greenhouse: hot and > humid. We need a better way to control the humidity within the hull > (if nothing else than for the electronics' sake). Air conditioning > would be a dream! > > I made the silly mistake of not bringing a scale for proper weight > calculations (I assumed we had one at the house, but we didn't, then > couldn't find any at the local drug stores!?!?). So we were doing a > lot of guessing and checking when it came to trimming out. It took a > while, but we ended up getting a pretty good system figured out. > > The only real nasty experience we had through the duration of our stay > in the keys occurred when the davit we were using to launch and > recover the sub failed and dropped the sub down into the water. The > davits we use are rated at 5,500 LBS and Snoopy weighs in at around > 2600 LBS, so no problem... when the lifting equipment is new. Problem > is that these davits have galvanized cable that has a way of looking > healthy on the outside but ugly within the strands (after being > exposed to the elements for some time). On one of our last recoveries, > the cable of the davit we were using snapped violently, dropping the > sub about 5 feet through the air and right back into the canal. > Thankfully, it didn't occur when we were swinging the sub over the > concrete dock and no damage resulted... but it taught me a powerful > lesson in being prepared for the unexpected! > > I know that to most of you guys these tips are common sense, but for > the sake of safety, let me review a few things to consider when > launching/recovering with cranes/davits: > > 1. Never allow anyone under (or even close to) the vessel when it's > being hoisted. > 2. Use at least two tag-lines to control direction and arrest sway if > lifting from a single point crane. > 3. Don't lift higher than necessary. > 4. Inspect equipment regularly and replace components when necessary. > 5. Ensure hatch is closed and secured prior to lifting (this probably > saved Snoopy from going to the bottom of the canal, as the > 'splash-down' was extreme). > 6. (for dome hatched vessels), wrap spreader bars, pulleys, blocks and > other hardware in carpet (secured by tape or zip ties) so if a failure > occurs the submersible won't incur damage (another thing that saved us > - the spreader bar bonked Snoopy on the head, but she was protected by > thick padding). > 7. Never stand in line with tensioned wire rope. When it snaps, it > whips with tremendous force. > > Although at the time I was shocked that what happened actually > occurred, in retrospect I'm happy it did, because for such a failure > to occur at all, it couldn't have had a better outcome or made a > stronger impression on me. Still a novice submersible operator, but > getting better with each lesson I learn! ~ Douglas S. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 24 18:33:37 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 18:33:37 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <15a72790213-4f54-caa0@webprd-m58.mail.aol.com> swamp cooler. we talked about that extensively a while back. mostly a bucket with side vents and a computer fan in the top. works a treat, plus if you do the fan right, you can sit on it. As to multiage, it will last for hours and the cold water will keep cooling. vent over the side when you get home with a little grunt and heave action. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Fri, Feb 24, 2017 5:23 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... Vance, that's definitely the way to look at it. Much rather spend a few hundred on new hardware than a few thousand on boat / sub repair! Alan, I like the idea of the ice chest with blower... seems like it's simple, safe, cheap and probably (at least) somewhat helpful in cooling things off. Only thing is, once your ice has melted, perhaps it would actually increase humidity? I guess you'd need a way to cap it off after its effective use. It runs in my mind that someone here on PSUBS recently tried to build one (maybe Brian Cox or Brian Hughes?). ~ Doug On 2/24/17, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks Doug, great report. > As far as heat is concerned; air conditioning is very expensive > on power. > I have read of commercial operations pumping cooled air into > the hull before boarding. You could do this easy enough in your > canal by running an extension cord to an air conditioner. > This won't help when you tow off the coast. It might be a bit tricky > trying to pump air in from your boat in rough conditions. > One solution we have talked about is a chilli bin full of ice with > a fan blowing air through it. > Here is 1 of many videos on how to make one. > https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I2LqIbm4cFI > This guy suggests that you may also want to stick liquid refreshments > in the chilli bin. > They do sell air conditioning units for small boats. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 25/02/2017, at 10:06 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Holy smokes is this email overdue - sorry guys - better late than >> never (right?). >> >> Greetings fellow PSUBBERS, Doug Jr. here with a basic trip / dive >> report from our October, 2016 excursion to the Florida Keys with >> submersible Snoopy. >> >> The group ended up being no more than my own family and my friend Mike >> Patterson. >> >> To start off, we had a relatively limited amount of time on location >> (about 6 days), considering that it was our first real trial with >> Snoopy. Complicating matters was the fact that October is still within >> hurricane season and the weather was not kind to us... we managed to >> be down in the Keys between (and not during) hurricanes / tropical >> storms, but the weather was still a major obstacle, giving us rain / >> thunder / lightning / strong winds / rough seas / poor water >> visibility... the works. Luckily the canal (of about 25 feet in depth) >> offered us enough shelter to conduct some test dives in spite of >> conditions. >> >> Snoopy herself offered us excellent service with no major issues (no >> leaks, no electrical issues, etc). Prior to operation, we O2 cleaned >> the entire oxygen system (hoses, gauge, reg, valves, etc.) and when >> first in the water, my dad as support diver noticed an extremely small >> O2 leak on the exterior reg (producing super small / slow bubbles in >> the water). We rectified the problem by snugging up the fittings with >> a wrench. >> >> With Snoopy right off the dock in the canal, we all had a great time >> acquainting ourselves with buoyancy and thruster control, noting the >> slight delay in reaction to input as well as the overall sensitivity >> of the controls. >> >> In terms of trimming out for proper buoyancy (via trawl floats), I had >> been concerned that Snoopy wouldn't provide enough positive buoyancy >> for two heavier occupants, but my worries were belayed soon enough >> when I tried to dive solo (with no floats in the tubes) and the sub >> was WAY too buoyant. We ended up using all of the dive weights we had >> on hand, plus a few 10 LB anchors that we had lying about and finally >> I came to nearly neutral buoyancy (I weigh about 190lbs). >> >> I don't have much doubt now that we have enough flotation in the >> submersible's current weight/float configuration to safely dive two >> heavier occupants, however, we ran out of time to test with two people >> aboard. >> >> Aside from limited time and poor conditions, here are a few other >> issues we encountered: As Alec, Steve and anyone else who rode in >> Snoppy down in the Keys can attest, it gets HOT in the hull when you >> are on the surface (even if just for a couple of minutes). Being under >> the dome (in the Keys) reminded me of being in a greenhouse: hot and >> humid. We need a better way to control the humidity within the hull >> (if nothing else than for the electronics' sake). Air conditioning >> would be a dream! >> >> I made the silly mistake of not bringing a scale for proper weight >> calculations (I assumed we had one at the house, but we didn't, then >> couldn't find any at the local drug stores!?!?). So we were doing a >> lot of guessing and checking when it came to trimming out. It took a >> while, but we ended up getting a pretty good system figured out. >> >> The only real nasty experience we had through the duration of our stay >> in the keys occurred when the davit we were using to launch and >> recover the sub failed and dropped the sub down into the water. The >> davits we use are rated at 5,500 LBS and Snoopy weighs in at around >> 2600 LBS, so no problem... when the lifting equipment is new. Problem >> is that these davits have galvanized cable that has a way of looking >> healthy on the outside but ugly within the strands (after being >> exposed to the elements for some time). On one of our last recoveries, >> the cable of the davit we were using snapped violently, dropping the >> sub about 5 feet through the air and right back into the canal. >> Thankfully, it didn't occur when we were swinging the sub over the >> concrete dock and no damage resulted... but it taught me a powerful >> lesson in being prepared for the unexpected! >> >> I know that to most of you guys these tips are common sense, but for >> the sake of safety, let me review a few things to consider when >> launching/recovering with cranes/davits: >> >> 1. Never allow anyone under (or even close to) the vessel when it's >> being hoisted. >> 2. Use at least two tag-lines to control direction and arrest sway if >> lifting from a single point crane. >> 3. Don't lift higher than necessary. >> 4. Inspect equipment regularly and replace components when necessary. >> 5. Ensure hatch is closed and secured prior to lifting (this probably >> saved Snoopy from going to the bottom of the canal, as the >> 'splash-down' was extreme). >> 6. (for dome hatched vessels), wrap spreader bars, pulleys, blocks and >> other hardware in carpet (secured by tape or zip ties) so if a failure >> occurs the submersible won't incur damage (another thing that saved us >> - the spreader bar bonked Snoopy on the head, but she was protected by >> thick padding). >> 7. Never stand in line with tensioned wire rope. When it snaps, it >> whips with tremendous force. >> >> Although at the time I was shocked that what happened actually >> occurred, in retrospect I'm happy it did, because for such a failure >> to occur at all, it couldn't have had a better outcome or made a >> stronger impression on me. Still a novice submersible operator, but >> getting better with each lesson I learn! ~ Douglas S. >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 24 18:35:51 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 18:35:51 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... In-Reply-To: <15a72790213-4f54-caa0@webprd-m58.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <15a727b0bec-4f54-cac7@webprd-m58.mail.aol.com> Hmm. I think I meant meltage, which isn't a word, either. -----Original Message----- From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Fri, Feb 24, 2017 6:33 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... swamp cooler. we talked about that extensively a while back. mostly a bucket with side vents and a computer fan in the top. works a treat, plus if you do the fan right, you can sit on it. As to multiage, it will last for hours and the cold water will keep cooling. vent over the side when you get home with a little grunt and heave action. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Fri, Feb 24, 2017 5:23 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... Vance, that's definitely the way to look at it. Much rather spend a few hundred on new hardware than a few thousand on boat / sub repair! Alan, I like the idea of the ice chest with blower... seems like it's simple, safe, cheap and probably (at least) somewhat helpful in cooling things off. Only thing is, once your ice has melted, perhaps it would actually increase humidity? I guess you'd need a way to cap it off after its effective use. It runs in my mind that someone here on PSUBS recently tried to build one (maybe Brian Cox or Brian Hughes?). ~ Doug On 2/24/17, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks Doug, great report. > As far as heat is concerned; air conditioning is very expensive > on power. > I have read of commercial operations pumping cooled air into > the hull before boarding. You could do this easy enough in your > canal by running an extension cord to an air conditioner. > This won't help when you tow off the coast. It might be a bit tricky > trying to pump air in from your boat in rough conditions. > One solution we have talked about is a chilli bin full of ice with > a fan blowing air through it. > Here is 1 of many videos on how to make one. > https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I2LqIbm4cFI > This guy suggests that you may also want to stick liquid refreshments > in the chilli bin. > They do sell air conditioning units for small boats. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 25/02/2017, at 10:06 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Holy smokes is this email overdue - sorry guys - better late than >> never (right?). >> >> Greetings fellow PSUBBERS, Doug Jr. here with a basic trip / dive >> report from our October, 2016 excursion to the Florida Keys with >> submersible Snoopy. >> >> The group ended up being no more than my own family and my friend Mike >> Patterson. >> >> To start off, we had a relatively limited amount of time on location >> (about 6 days), considering that it was our first real trial with >> Snoopy. Complicating matters was the fact that October is still within >> hurricane season and the weather was not kind to us... we managed to >> be down in the Keys between (and not during) hurricanes / tropical >> storms, but the weather was still a major obstacle, giving us rain / >> thunder / lightning / strong winds / rough seas / poor water >> visibility... the works. Luckily the canal (of about 25 feet in depth) >> offered us enough shelter to conduct some test dives in spite of >> conditions. >> >> Snoopy herself offered us excellent service with no major issues (no >> leaks, no electrical issues, etc). Prior to operation, we O2 cleaned >> the entire oxygen system (hoses, gauge, reg, valves, etc.) and when >> first in the water, my dad as support diver noticed an extremely small >> O2 leak on the exterior reg (producing super small / slow bubbles in >> the water). We rectified the problem by snugging up the fittings with >> a wrench. >> >> With Snoopy right off the dock in the canal, we all had a great time >> acquainting ourselves with buoyancy and thruster control, noting the >> slight delay in reaction to input as well as the overall sensitivity >> of the controls. >> >> In terms of trimming out for proper buoyancy (via trawl floats), I had >> been concerned that Snoopy wouldn't provide enough positive buoyancy >> for two heavier occupants, but my worries were belayed soon enough >> when I tried to dive solo (with no floats in the tubes) and the sub >> was WAY too buoyant. We ended up using all of the dive weights we had >> on hand, plus a few 10 LB anchors that we had lying about and finally >> I came to nearly neutral buoyancy (I weigh about 190lbs). >> >> I don't have much doubt now that we have enough flotation in the >> submersible's current weight/float configuration to safely dive two >> heavier occupants, however, we ran out of time to test with two people >> aboard. >> >> Aside from limited time and poor conditions, here are a few other >> issues we encountered: As Alec, Steve and anyone else who rode in >> Snoppy down in the Keys can attest, it gets HOT in the hull when you >> are on the surface (even if just for a couple of minutes). Being under >> the dome (in the Keys) reminded me of being in a greenhouse: hot and >> humid. We need a better way to control the humidity within the hull >> (if nothing else than for the electronics' sake). Air conditioning >> would be a dream! >> >> I made the silly mistake of not bringing a scale for proper weight >> calculations (I assumed we had one at the house, but we didn't, then >> couldn't find any at the local drug stores!?!?). So we were doing a >> lot of guessing and checking when it came to trimming out. It took a >> while, but we ended up getting a pretty good system figured out. >> >> The only real nasty experience we had through the duration of our stay >> in the keys occurred when the davit we were using to launch and >> recover the sub failed and dropped the sub down into the water. The >> davits we use are rated at 5,500 LBS and Snoopy weighs in at around >> 2600 LBS, so no problem... when the lifting equipment is new. Problem >> is that these davits have galvanized cable that has a way of looking >> healthy on the outside but ugly within the strands (after being >> exposed to the elements for some time). On one of our last recoveries, >> the cable of the davit we were using snapped violently, dropping the >> sub about 5 feet through the air and right back into the canal. >> Thankfully, it didn't occur when we were swinging the sub over the >> concrete dock and no damage resulted... but it taught me a powerful >> lesson in being prepared for the unexpected! >> >> I know that to most of you guys these tips are common sense, but for >> the sake of safety, let me review a few things to consider when >> launching/recovering with cranes/davits: >> >> 1. Never allow anyone under (or even close to) the vessel when it's >> being hoisted. >> 2. Use at least two tag-lines to control direction and arrest sway if >> lifting from a single point crane. >> 3. Don't lift higher than necessary. >> 4. Inspect equipment regularly and replace components when necessary. >> 5. Ensure hatch is closed and secured prior to lifting (this probably >> saved Snoopy from going to the bottom of the canal, as the >> 'splash-down' was extreme). >> 6. (for dome hatched vessels), wrap spreader bars, pulleys, blocks and >> other hardware in carpet (secured by tape or zip ties) so if a failure >> occurs the submersible won't incur damage (another thing that saved us >> - the spreader bar bonked Snoopy on the head, but she was protected by >> thick padding). >> 7. Never stand in line with tensioned wire rope. When it snaps, it >> whips with tremendous force. >> >> Although at the time I was shocked that what happened actually >> occurred, in retrospect I'm happy it did, because for such a failure >> to occur at all, it couldn't have had a better outcome or made a >> stronger impression on me. Still a novice submersible operator, but >> getting better with each lesson I learn! ~ Douglas S. >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 24 18:41:39 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 12:41:39 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining Message-ID: <53474C0E-677D-41A5-A662-668BAE29D835@yahoo.com> Am cutting some small o-ring grooves in aluminum, 3.4mm x 2mm deep for a 2.5mm D o-ring. ( 10th of an inch) What is the best way to remove the sharp corners of the grove? I have read that you can spin your work in the lathe & sand with 200 & then 400 grit sand paper. Is this right? Have been having fun making the tool for this & don't think I have done a good job! Am I best to buy a carbide tool specific for this job. Thanks, Alan Sent from my iPad From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 24 19:21:00 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 18:21:00 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good report Doug. I aways appeiciate when you get the whole story, not just good stuff. This report brings back great memories of our Psub convention in Islamorada. I am hoping that you will host the covnetion again this summer. I am getting my boat ready to trailer it again to Florida Keys. Glad you have identified this issue with the davits. My boat is 4200 lbs. If did fail with Snoopy, I probably would have fail with my boat. We use both davits with my boat so if one failed, it could possible sink the boat. I am kind of liking the idea of dogging down the hatch when launching with the davits. Best Regards Cliff On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 3:06 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Holy smokes is this email overdue - sorry guys - better late than > never (right?). > > Greetings fellow PSUBBERS, Doug Jr. here with a basic trip / dive > report from our October, 2016 excursion to the Florida Keys with > submersible Snoopy. > > The group ended up being no more than my own family and my friend Mike > Patterson. > > To start off, we had a relatively limited amount of time on location > (about 6 days), considering that it was our first real trial with > Snoopy. Complicating matters was the fact that October is still within > hurricane season and the weather was not kind to us... we managed to > be down in the Keys between (and not during) hurricanes / tropical > storms, but the weather was still a major obstacle, giving us rain / > thunder / lightning / strong winds / rough seas / poor water > visibility... the works. Luckily the canal (of about 25 feet in depth) > offered us enough shelter to conduct some test dives in spite of > conditions. > > Snoopy herself offered us excellent service with no major issues (no > leaks, no electrical issues, etc). Prior to operation, we O2 cleaned > the entire oxygen system (hoses, gauge, reg, valves, etc.) and when > first in the water, my dad as support diver noticed an extremely small > O2 leak on the exterior reg (producing super small / slow bubbles in > the water). We rectified the problem by snugging up the fittings with > a wrench. > > With Snoopy right off the dock in the canal, we all had a great time > acquainting ourselves with buoyancy and thruster control, noting the > slight delay in reaction to input as well as the overall sensitivity > of the controls. > > In terms of trimming out for proper buoyancy (via trawl floats), I had > been concerned that Snoopy wouldn't provide enough positive buoyancy > for two heavier occupants, but my worries were belayed soon enough > when I tried to dive solo (with no floats in the tubes) and the sub > was WAY too buoyant. We ended up using all of the dive weights we had > on hand, plus a few 10 LB anchors that we had lying about and finally > I came to nearly neutral buoyancy (I weigh about 190lbs). > > I don't have much doubt now that we have enough flotation in the > submersible's current weight/float configuration to safely dive two > heavier occupants, however, we ran out of time to test with two people > aboard. > > Aside from limited time and poor conditions, here are a few other > issues we encountered: As Alec, Steve and anyone else who rode in > Snoppy down in the Keys can attest, it gets HOT in the hull when you > are on the surface (even if just for a couple of minutes). Being under > the dome (in the Keys) reminded me of being in a greenhouse: hot and > humid. We need a better way to control the humidity within the hull > (if nothing else than for the electronics' sake). Air conditioning > would be a dream! > > I made the silly mistake of not bringing a scale for proper weight > calculations (I assumed we had one at the house, but we didn't, then > couldn't find any at the local drug stores!?!?). So we were doing a > lot of guessing and checking when it came to trimming out. It took a > while, but we ended up getting a pretty good system figured out. > > The only real nasty experience we had through the duration of our stay > in the keys occurred when the davit we were using to launch and > recover the sub failed and dropped the sub down into the water. The > davits we use are rated at 5,500 LBS and Snoopy weighs in at around > 2600 LBS, so no problem... when the lifting equipment is new. Problem > is that these davits have galvanized cable that has a way of looking > healthy on the outside but ugly within the strands (after being > exposed to the elements for some time). On one of our last recoveries, > the cable of the davit we were using snapped violently, dropping the > sub about 5 feet through the air and right back into the canal. > Thankfully, it didn't occur when we were swinging the sub over the > concrete dock and no damage resulted... but it taught me a powerful > lesson in being prepared for the unexpected! > > I know that to most of you guys these tips are common sense, but for > the sake of safety, let me review a few things to consider when > launching/recovering with cranes/davits: > > 1. Never allow anyone under (or even close to) the vessel when it's > being hoisted. > 2. Use at least two tag-lines to control direction and arrest sway if > lifting from a single point crane. > 3. Don't lift higher than necessary. > 4. Inspect equipment regularly and replace components when necessary. > 5. Ensure hatch is closed and secured prior to lifting (this probably > saved Snoopy from going to the bottom of the canal, as the > 'splash-down' was extreme). > 6. (for dome hatched vessels), wrap spreader bars, pulleys, blocks and > other hardware in carpet (secured by tape or zip ties) so if a failure > occurs the submersible won't incur damage (another thing that saved us > - the spreader bar bonked Snoopy on the head, but she was protected by > thick padding). > 7. Never stand in line with tensioned wire rope. When it snaps, it > whips with tremendous force. > > Although at the time I was shocked that what happened actually > occurred, in retrospect I'm happy it did, because for such a failure > to occur at all, it couldn't have had a better outcome or made a > stronger impression on me. Still a novice submersible operator, but > getting better with each lesson I learn! ~ Douglas S. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 24 19:33:22 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 19:33:22 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001d28efe$c5204730$4f60d590$@indy.rr.com> Thanks for the report Doug. Good job. Looking for ward to hearing about the next one : ) Steve -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 4:07 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... Holy smokes is this email overdue - sorry guys - better late than never (right?). Greetings fellow PSUBBERS, Doug Jr. here with a basic trip / dive report from our October, 2016 excursion to the Florida Keys with submersible Snoopy. The group ended up being no more than my own family and my friend Mike Patterson. To start off, we had a relatively limited amount of time on location (about 6 days), considering that it was our first real trial with Snoopy. Complicating matters was the fact that October is still within hurricane season and the weather was not kind to us... we managed to be down in the Keys between (and not during) hurricanes / tropical storms, but the weather was still a major obstacle, giving us rain / thunder / lightning / strong winds / rough seas / poor water visibility... the works. Luckily the canal (of about 25 feet in depth) offered us enough shelter to conduct some test dives in spite of conditions. Snoopy herself offered us excellent service with no major issues (no leaks, no electrical issues, etc). Prior to operation, we O2 cleaned the entire oxygen system (hoses, gauge, reg, valves, etc.) and when first in the water, my dad as support diver noticed an extremely small O2 leak on the exterior reg (producing super small / slow bubbles in the water). We rectified the problem by snugging up the fittings with a wrench. With Snoopy right off the dock in the canal, we all had a great time acquainting ourselves with buoyancy and thruster control, noting the slight delay in reaction to input as well as the overall sensitivity of the controls. In terms of trimming out for proper buoyancy (via trawl floats), I had been concerned that Snoopy wouldn't provide enough positive buoyancy for two heavier occupants, but my worries were belayed soon enough when I tried to dive solo (with no floats in the tubes) and the sub was WAY too buoyant. We ended up using all of the dive weights we had on hand, plus a few 10 LB anchors that we had lying about and finally I came to nearly neutral buoyancy (I weigh about 190lbs). I don't have much doubt now that we have enough flotation in the submersible's current weight/float configuration to safely dive two heavier occupants, however, we ran out of time to test with two people aboard. Aside from limited time and poor conditions, here are a few other issues we encountered: As Alec, Steve and anyone else who rode in Snoppy down in the Keys can attest, it gets HOT in the hull when you are on the surface (even if just for a couple of minutes). Being under the dome (in the Keys) reminded me of being in a greenhouse: hot and humid. We need a better way to control the humidity within the hull (if nothing else than for the electronics' sake). Air conditioning would be a dream! I made the silly mistake of not bringing a scale for proper weight calculations (I assumed we had one at the house, but we didn't, then couldn't find any at the local drug stores!?!?). So we were doing a lot of guessing and checking when it came to trimming out. It took a while, but we ended up getting a pretty good system figured out. The only real nasty experience we had through the duration of our stay in the keys occurred when the davit we were using to launch and recover the sub failed and dropped the sub down into the water. The davits we use are rated at 5,500 LBS and Snoopy weighs in at around 2600 LBS, so no problem... when the lifting equipment is new. Problem is that these davits have galvanized cable that has a way of looking healthy on the outside but ugly within the strands (after being exposed to the elements for some time). On one of our last recoveries, the cable of the davit we were using snapped violently, dropping the sub about 5 feet through the air and right back into the canal. Thankfully, it didn't occur when we were swinging the sub over the concrete dock and no damage resulted... but it taught me a powerful lesson in being prepared for the unexpected! I know that to most of you guys these tips are common sense, but for the sake of safety, let me review a few things to consider when launching/recovering with cranes/davits: 1. Never allow anyone under (or even close to) the vessel when it's being hoisted. 2. Use at least two tag-lines to control direction and arrest sway if lifting from a single point crane. 3. Don't lift higher than necessary. 4. Inspect equipment regularly and replace components when necessary. 5. Ensure hatch is closed and secured prior to lifting (this probably saved Snoopy from going to the bottom of the canal, as the 'splash-down' was extreme). 6. (for dome hatched vessels), wrap spreader bars, pulleys, blocks and other hardware in carpet (secured by tape or zip ties) so if a failure occurs the submersible won't incur damage (another thing that saved us - the spreader bar bonked Snoopy on the head, but she was protected by thick padding). 7. Never stand in line with tensioned wire rope. When it snaps, it whips with tremendous force. Although at the time I was shocked that what happened actually occurred, in retrospect I'm happy it did, because for such a failure to occur at all, it couldn't have had a better outcome or made a stronger impression on me. Still a novice submersible operator, but getting better with each lesson I learn! ~ Douglas S. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 24 19:36:42 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 19:36:42 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004001d28eff$3c1d3f00$b457bd00$@indy.rr.com> Thanks for the report Doug. Good job. Looking forward to the next one : ) Steve -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 4:07 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... Holy smokes is this email overdue - sorry guys - better late than never (right?). Greetings fellow PSUBBERS, Doug Jr. here with a basic trip / dive report from our October, 2016 excursion to the Florida Keys with submersible Snoopy. The group ended up being no more than my own family and my friend Mike Patterson. To start off, we had a relatively limited amount of time on location (about 6 days), considering that it was our first real trial with Snoopy. Complicating matters was the fact that October is still within hurricane season and the weather was not kind to us... we managed to be down in the Keys between (and not during) hurricanes / tropical storms, but the weather was still a major obstacle, giving us rain / thunder / lightning / strong winds / rough seas / poor water visibility... the works. Luckily the canal (of about 25 feet in depth) offered us enough shelter to conduct some test dives in spite of conditions. Snoopy herself offered us excellent service with no major issues (no leaks, no electrical issues, etc). Prior to operation, we O2 cleaned the entire oxygen system (hoses, gauge, reg, valves, etc.) and when first in the water, my dad as support diver noticed an extremely small O2 leak on the exterior reg (producing super small / slow bubbles in the water). We rectified the problem by snugging up the fittings with a wrench. With Snoopy right off the dock in the canal, we all had a great time acquainting ourselves with buoyancy and thruster control, noting the slight delay in reaction to input as well as the overall sensitivity of the controls. In terms of trimming out for proper buoyancy (via trawl floats), I had been concerned that Snoopy wouldn't provide enough positive buoyancy for two heavier occupants, but my worries were belayed soon enough when I tried to dive solo (with no floats in the tubes) and the sub was WAY too buoyant. We ended up using all of the dive weights we had on hand, plus a few 10 LB anchors that we had lying about and finally I came to nearly neutral buoyancy (I weigh about 190lbs). I don't have much doubt now that we have enough flotation in the submersible's current weight/float configuration to safely dive two heavier occupants, however, we ran out of time to test with two people aboard. Aside from limited time and poor conditions, here are a few other issues we encountered: As Alec, Steve and anyone else who rode in Snoppy down in the Keys can attest, it gets HOT in the hull when you are on the surface (even if just for a couple of minutes). Being under the dome (in the Keys) reminded me of being in a greenhouse: hot and humid. We need a better way to control the humidity within the hull (if nothing else than for the electronics' sake). Air conditioning would be a dream! I made the silly mistake of not bringing a scale for proper weight calculations (I assumed we had one at the house, but we didn't, then couldn't find any at the local drug stores!?!?). So we were doing a lot of guessing and checking when it came to trimming out. It took a while, but we ended up getting a pretty good system figured out. The only real nasty experience we had through the duration of our stay in the keys occurred when the davit we were using to launch and recover the sub failed and dropped the sub down into the water. The davits we use are rated at 5,500 LBS and Snoopy weighs in at around 2600 LBS, so no problem... when the lifting equipment is new. Problem is that these davits have galvanized cable that has a way of looking healthy on the outside but ugly within the strands (after being exposed to the elements for some time). On one of our last recoveries, the cable of the davit we were using snapped violently, dropping the sub about 5 feet through the air and right back into the canal. Thankfully, it didn't occur when we were swinging the sub over the concrete dock and no damage resulted... but it taught me a powerful lesson in being prepared for the unexpected! I know that to most of you guys these tips are common sense, but for the sake of safety, let me review a few things to consider when launching/recovering with cranes/davits: 1. Never allow anyone under (or even close to) the vessel when it's being hoisted. 2. Use at least two tag-lines to control direction and arrest sway if lifting from a single point crane. 3. Don't lift higher than necessary. 4. Inspect equipment regularly and replace components when necessary. 5. Ensure hatch is closed and secured prior to lifting (this probably saved Snoopy from going to the bottom of the canal, as the 'splash-down' was extreme). 6. (for dome hatched vessels), wrap spreader bars, pulleys, blocks and other hardware in carpet (secured by tape or zip ties) so if a failure occurs the submersible won't incur damage (another thing that saved us - the spreader bar bonked Snoopy on the head, but she was protected by thick padding). 7. Never stand in line with tensioned wire rope. When it snaps, it whips with tremendous force. Although at the time I was shocked that what happened actually occurred, in retrospect I'm happy it did, because for such a failure to occur at all, it couldn't have had a better outcome or made a stronger impression on me. Still a novice submersible operator, but getting better with each lesson I learn! ~ Douglas S. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 24 19:41:32 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 16:41:32 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining Message-ID: <20170224164132.71B437BF@m0087798.ppops.net> Hi Alan, you can use a tiny file, but be careful it doesn't kick back at you. --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 12:41:39 +1300 Am cutting some small o-ring grooves in aluminum, 3.4mm x 2mm deep for a 2.5mm D o-ring. ( 10th of an inch) What is the best way to remove the sharp corners of the grove? I have read that you can spin your work in the lathe & sand with 200 & then 400 grit sand paper. Is this right? Have been having fun making the tool for this & don't think I have done a good job! Am I best to buy a carbide tool specific for this job. Thanks, Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 24 19:45:03 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 00:45:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining In-Reply-To: <20170224164132.71B437BF@m0087798.ppops.net> References: <20170224164132.71B437BF@m0087798.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1900221713.673289.1487983503242@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Are you talking about the edge on top of the groove, or the bottom radius. ?I use a file first then wet sand paper. ?With Aluminum, the sand?paper will do it all. ?If you are talking the bottom radius, I grind my tool ( parting tool) ?with the radius in it.Hank On Friday, February 24, 2017 5:41 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, you can use a tiny file, but be careful it doesn't kick back at you. --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 12:41:39 +1300 Am cutting some small o-ring grooves in aluminum, 3.4mm x 2mm deep for a 2.5mm D o-ring. ( 10th of an inch) What is the best way to remove the sharp corners of the grove? I have read that you can spin your work in the lathe & sand with 200 & then 400 grit sand paper. Is this right? Have been having fun making the tool for this & don't think I have done a good job! Am I best to buy a carbide tool specific for this job. Thanks, Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 24 19:49:33 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 16:49:33 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining Message-ID: <20170224164933.71B43787@m0087798.ppops.net> Don't need carbide for aluminum, did it cut nicely, aluminum likes high speed brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 12:41:39 +1300 Am cutting some small o-ring grooves in aluminum, 3.4mm x 2mm deep for a 2.5mm D o-ring. ( 10th of an inch) What is the best way to remove the sharp corners of the grove? I have read that you can spin your work in the lathe & sand with 200 & then 400 grit sand paper. Is this right? Have been having fun making the tool for this & don't think I have done a good job! Am I best to buy a carbide tool specific for this job. Thanks, Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 24 20:45:27 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 20:45:27 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... In-Reply-To: <004001d28eff$3c1d3f00$b457bd00$@indy.rr.com> References: <004001d28eff$3c1d3f00$b457bd00$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: Glad you all appreciated the report. Hank, I would love to add a snorkel to Snoopy so we could have some surface airflow (via a fan) while in seas that prohibit the hatch from remaining open. I think that combined with the swamp cooler and JB umbrella would do nicely for the crew. Cliff, as to the davits... time to replace all cables, give the structures and winches a good looking over, and come up with some better hardware. And as I've hinted before, I'm also working on a surface tender design that has been proven necessary with Snoopster. ~ Doug On 2/24/17, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks for the report Doug. Good job. Looking forward to the next one : ) > > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles > [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 4:07 PM > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... > > Holy smokes is this email overdue - sorry guys - better late than never > (right?). > > Greetings fellow PSUBBERS, Doug Jr. here with a basic trip / dive report > from our October, 2016 excursion to the Florida Keys with submersible > Snoopy. > > The group ended up being no more than my own family and my friend Mike > Patterson. > > To start off, we had a relatively limited amount of time on location (about > 6 days), considering that it was our first real trial with Snoopy. > Complicating matters was the fact that October is still within hurricane > season and the weather was not kind to us... we managed to be down in the > Keys between (and not during) hurricanes / tropical storms, but the weather > was still a major obstacle, giving us rain / thunder / lightning / strong > winds / rough seas / poor water visibility... the works. Luckily the canal > (of about 25 feet in depth) offered us enough shelter to conduct some test > dives in spite of conditions. > > Snoopy herself offered us excellent service with no major issues (no leaks, > no electrical issues, etc). Prior to operation, we O2 cleaned the entire > oxygen system (hoses, gauge, reg, valves, etc.) and when first in the > water, > my dad as support diver noticed an extremely small > O2 leak on the exterior reg (producing super small / slow bubbles in the > water). We rectified the problem by snugging up the fittings with a wrench. > > With Snoopy right off the dock in the canal, we all had a great time > acquainting ourselves with buoyancy and thruster control, noting the slight > delay in reaction to input as well as the overall sensitivity of the > controls. > > In terms of trimming out for proper buoyancy (via trawl floats), I had been > concerned that Snoopy wouldn't provide enough positive buoyancy for two > heavier occupants, but my worries were belayed soon enough when I tried to > dive solo (with no floats in the tubes) and the sub was WAY too buoyant. We > ended up using all of the dive weights we had on hand, plus a few 10 LB > anchors that we had lying about and finally I came to nearly neutral > buoyancy (I weigh about 190lbs). > > I don't have much doubt now that we have enough flotation in the > submersible's current weight/float configuration to safely dive two heavier > occupants, however, we ran out of time to test with two people aboard. > > Aside from limited time and poor conditions, here are a few other issues we > encountered: As Alec, Steve and anyone else who rode in Snoppy down in the > Keys can attest, it gets HOT in the hull when you are on the surface (even > if just for a couple of minutes). Being under the dome (in the Keys) > reminded me of being in a greenhouse: hot and humid. We need a better way > to > control the humidity within the hull (if nothing else than for the > electronics' sake). Air conditioning would be a dream! > > I made the silly mistake of not bringing a scale for proper weight > calculations (I assumed we had one at the house, but we didn't, then > couldn't find any at the local drug stores!?!?). So we were doing a lot of > guessing and checking when it came to trimming out. It took a while, but we > ended up getting a pretty good system figured out. > > The only real nasty experience we had through the duration of our stay in > the keys occurred when the davit we were using to launch and recover the > sub > failed and dropped the sub down into the water. The davits we use are rated > at 5,500 LBS and Snoopy weighs in at around > 2600 LBS, so no problem... when the lifting equipment is new. Problem is > that these davits have galvanized cable that has a way of looking healthy > on > the outside but ugly within the strands (after being exposed to the > elements > for some time). On one of our last recoveries, the cable of the davit we > were using snapped violently, dropping the sub about 5 feet through the air > and right back into the canal. > Thankfully, it didn't occur when we were swinging the sub over the concrete > dock and no damage resulted... but it taught me a powerful lesson in being > prepared for the unexpected! > > I know that to most of you guys these tips are common sense, but for the > sake of safety, let me review a few things to consider when > launching/recovering with cranes/davits: > > 1. Never allow anyone under (or even close to) the vessel when it's being > hoisted. > 2. Use at least two tag-lines to control direction and arrest sway if > lifting from a single point crane. > 3. Don't lift higher than necessary. > 4. Inspect equipment regularly and replace components when necessary. > 5. Ensure hatch is closed and secured prior to lifting (this probably saved > Snoopy from going to the bottom of the canal, as the 'splash-down' was > extreme). > 6. (for dome hatched vessels), wrap spreader bars, pulleys, blocks and > other > hardware in carpet (secured by tape or zip ties) so if a failure occurs the > submersible won't incur damage (another thing that saved us > - the spreader bar bonked Snoopy on the head, but she was protected by > thick > padding). > 7. Never stand in line with tensioned wire rope. When it snaps, it whips > with tremendous force. > > Although at the time I was shocked that what happened actually occurred, in > retrospect I'm happy it did, because for such a failure to occur at all, it > couldn't have had a better outcome or made a stronger impression on me. > Still a novice submersible operator, but getting better with each lesson I > learn! ~ Douglas S. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 24 20:52:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 14:52:49 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining In-Reply-To: <20170224164933.71B43787@m0087798.ppops.net> References: <20170224164933.71B43787@m0087798.ppops.net> Message-ID: Thanks Brian & Hank, it was the outer egdes that I left sharp. It didn't cut nicely, it left a raised mound on the edge that I removed with a facing tool. I will either look in to a specific groove tool or better equipment for forming the tool as these are taking too long :( Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/02/2017, at 1:49 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Don't need carbide for aluminum, did it cut nicely, aluminum likes high speed > > brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining > Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 12:41:39 +1300 > > Am cutting some small o-ring grooves in aluminum, 3.4mm x 2mm deep for > a 2.5mm D o-ring. ( 10th of an inch) What is the best way to remove the sharp > corners of the grove? I have read that you can spin your work in the lathe > & sand with 200 & then 400 grit sand paper. Is this right? > Have been having fun making the tool for this & don't think I have done a > good job! Am I best to buy a carbide tool specific for this job. > Thanks, Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 24 21:33:06 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 02:33:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining In-Reply-To: References: <20170224164933.71B43787@m0087798.ppops.net> Message-ID: <2119792162.718725.1487989986201@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Try a parting tool, works for me.Hank On Friday, February 24, 2017 6:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Brian & Hank, it was the outer egdes that I left sharp. It didn't cut nicely, it left a raised mound on the edge that I removed with a facing tool. I will either look? in to a specific groove tool or better equipment for forming the tool as these are taking too long :( Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/02/2017, at 1:49 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Don't need carbide for aluminum, did it cut nicely, aluminum likes high speed > > brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining > Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 12:41:39 +1300 > > Am cutting some small o-ring grooves in aluminum, 3.4mm x 2mm deep for > a 2.5mm D o-ring. ( 10th of an inch) What is the best way to remove the sharp > corners of the grove? I have read that you can spin your work in the lathe > & sand with 200 & then 400 grit sand paper. Is this right? > Have been having fun making the tool for this & don't think I have done a > good job! Am I best to buy a carbide tool specific for this job. > Thanks, Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 24 21:57:00 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 15:57:00 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining In-Reply-To: <2119792162.718725.1487989986201@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20170224164933.71B43787@m0087798.ppops.net> <2119792162.718725.1487989986201@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3651C8AD-C9D2-4A90-B383-2CCF5B40D50D@yahoo.com> Thanks Hank, haven't got one, just two modified tools for inner & outer grooves. Both of these work poorly. Will go shopping on Monday. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/02/2017, at 3:33 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > Try a parting tool, works for me. > Hank > > > On Friday, February 24, 2017 6:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Thanks Brian & Hank, > it was the outer egdes that I left sharp. > It didn't cut nicely, it left a raised mound on the edge that I removed with a facing tool. > I will either look in to a specific groove tool or better equipment for forming the > tool as these are taking too long :( > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 25/02/2017, at 1:49 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > Don't need carbide for aluminum, did it cut nicely, aluminum likes high speed > > > > brian > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining > > Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 12:41:39 +1300 > > > > Am cutting some small o-ring grooves in aluminum, 3.4mm x 2mm deep for > > a 2.5mm D o-ring. ( 10th of an inch) What is the best way to remove the sharp > > corners of the grove? I have read that you can spin your work in the lathe > > & sand with 200 & then 400 grit sand paper. Is this right? > > Have been having fun making the tool for this & don't think I have done a > > good job! Am I best to buy a carbide tool specific for this job. > > Thanks, Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 24 22:19:07 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 22:19:07 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining In-Reply-To: References: <20170224164933.71B43787@m0087798.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi Alan, Get yourself some rolls of sandpaper. Not sheets but rolls, about an inch wide. When you're done turning your piece, crank up the speed a bit and put a length of tape around it. It allows you to polish it up while keeping your hands away. Go to your fine tape and then spray with coolant for the final polish. I can't think of anything I turn on a lathe that I don't use tape on. Ah, the only exception is plastic. Best, Alec On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Brian & Hank, > it was the outer egdes that I left sharp. > It didn't cut nicely, it left a raised mound on the edge that I removed > with a facing tool. > I will either look in to a specific groove tool or better equipment for > forming the > tool as these are taking too long :( > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 25/02/2017, at 1:49 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > Don't need carbide for aluminum, did it cut nicely, aluminum likes high > speed > > > > brian > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining > > Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 12:41:39 +1300 > > > > Am cutting some small o-ring grooves in aluminum, 3.4mm x 2mm deep for > > a 2.5mm D o-ring. ( 10th of an inch) What is the best way to remove the > sharp > > corners of the grove? I have read that you can spin your work in the > lathe > > & sand with 200 & then 400 grit sand paper. Is this right? > > Have been having fun making the tool for this & don't think I have done a > > good job! Am I best to buy a carbide tool specific for this job. > > Thanks, Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 24 22:46:27 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 16:46:27 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining In-Reply-To: References: <20170224164933.71B43787@m0087798.ppops.net> Message-ID: <99C77C56-9A84-4E00-A22F-9B399EE14174@yahoo.com> Hi Alec, not quite following you. Do you mean cutting a strip of sandpaper & rolling it length ways & taping it? I have just been using my hands if it seems safe enough. Did lose a finger one time but not on a lathe :) Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/02/2017, at 4:19 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > Get yourself some rolls of sandpaper. Not sheets but rolls, about an inch wide. When you're done turning your piece, crank up the speed a bit and put a length of tape around it. It allows you to polish it up while keeping your hands away. Go to your fine tape and then spray with coolant for the final polish. I can't think of anything I turn on a lathe that I don't use tape on. Ah, the only exception is plastic. > > > Best, > > Alec > >> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Thanks Brian & Hank, >> it was the outer egdes that I left sharp. >> It didn't cut nicely, it left a raised mound on the edge that I removed with a facing tool. >> I will either look in to a specific groove tool or better equipment for forming the >> tool as these are taking too long :( >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> > On 25/02/2017, at 1:49 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > >> > >> > Don't need carbide for aluminum, did it cut nicely, aluminum likes high speed >> > >> > brian >> > >> > >> > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> > >> > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining >> > Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 12:41:39 +1300 >> > >> > Am cutting some small o-ring grooves in aluminum, 3.4mm x 2mm deep for >> > a 2.5mm D o-ring. ( 10th of an inch) What is the best way to remove the sharp >> > corners of the grove? I have read that you can spin your work in the lathe >> > & sand with 200 & then 400 grit sand paper. Is this right? >> > Have been having fun making the tool for this & don't think I have done a >> > good job! Am I best to buy a carbide tool specific for this job. >> > Thanks, Alan >> > >> > Sent from my iPad >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 24 23:52:14 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 20:52:14 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... In-Reply-To: hN5scBcpWtQlPhN5ucPVOX References: hN5scBcpWtQlPhN5ucPVOX Message-ID: <001901d28f22$ef9dc540$ced94fc0$@telus.net> Terrific dive report, Doug. Do you have any photos/videos to post? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 1:07 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... Holy smokes is this email overdue - sorry guys - better late than never (right?). Greetings fellow PSUBBERS, Doug Jr. here with a basic trip / dive report from our October, 2016 excursion to the Florida Keys with submersible Snoopy. The group ended up being no more than my own family and my friend Mike Patterson. To start off, we had a relatively limited amount of time on location (about 6 days), considering that it was our first real trial with Snoopy. Complicating matters was the fact that October is still within hurricane season and the weather was not kind to us... we managed to be down in the Keys between (and not during) hurricanes / tropical storms, but the weather was still a major obstacle, giving us rain / thunder / lightning / strong winds / rough seas / poor water visibility... the works. Luckily the canal (of about 25 feet in depth) offered us enough shelter to conduct some test dives in spite of conditions. Snoopy herself offered us excellent service with no major issues (no leaks, no electrical issues, etc). Prior to operation, we O2 cleaned the entire oxygen system (hoses, gauge, reg, valves, etc.) and when first in the water, my dad as support diver noticed an extremely small O2 leak on the exterior reg (producing super small / slow bubbles in the water). We rectified the problem by snugging up the fittings with a wrench. With Snoopy right off the dock in the canal, we all had a great time acquainting ourselves with buoyancy and thruster control, noting the slight delay in reaction to input as well as the overall sensitivity of the controls. In terms of trimming out for proper buoyancy (via trawl floats), I had been concerned that Snoopy wouldn't provide enough positive buoyancy for two heavier occupants, but my worries were belayed soon enough when I tried to dive solo (with no floats in the tubes) and the sub was WAY too buoyant. We ended up using all of the dive weights we had on hand, plus a few 10 LB anchors that we had lying about and finally I came to nearly neutral buoyancy (I weigh about 190lbs). I don't have much doubt now that we have enough flotation in the submersible's current weight/float configuration to safely dive two heavier occupants, however, we ran out of time to test with two people aboard. Aside from limited time and poor conditions, here are a few other issues we encountered: As Alec, Steve and anyone else who rode in Snoppy down in the Keys can attest, it gets HOT in the hull when you are on the surface (even if just for a couple of minutes). Being under the dome (in the Keys) reminded me of being in a greenhouse: hot and humid. We need a better way to control the humidity within the hull (if nothing else than for the electronics' sake). Air conditioning would be a dream! I made the silly mistake of not bringing a scale for proper weight calculations (I assumed we had one at the house, but we didn't, then couldn't find any at the local drug stores!?!?). So we were doing a lot of guessing and checking when it came to trimming out. It took a while, but we ended up getting a pretty good system figured out. The only real nasty experience we had through the duration of our stay in the keys occurred when the davit we were using to launch and recover the sub failed and dropped the sub down into the water. The davits we use are rated at 5,500 LBS and Snoopy weighs in at around 2600 LBS, so no problem... when the lifting equipment is new. Problem is that these davits have galvanized cable that has a way of looking healthy on the outside but ugly within the strands (after being exposed to the elements for some time). On one of our last recoveries, the cable of the davit we were using snapped violently, dropping the sub about 5 feet through the air and right back into the canal. Thankfully, it didn't occur when we were swinging the sub over the concrete dock and no damage resulted... but it taught me a powerful lesson in being prepared for the unexpected! I know that to most of you guys these tips are common sense, but for the sake of safety, let me review a few things to consider when launching/recovering with cranes/davits: 1. Never allow anyone under (or even close to) the vessel when it's being hoisted. 2. Use at least two tag-lines to control direction and arrest sway if lifting from a single point crane. 3. Don't lift higher than necessary. 4. Inspect equipment regularly and replace components when necessary. 5. Ensure hatch is closed and secured prior to lifting (this probably saved Snoopy from going to the bottom of the canal, as the 'splash-down' was extreme). 6. (for dome hatched vessels), wrap spreader bars, pulleys, blocks and other hardware in carpet (secured by tape or zip ties) so if a failure occurs the submersible won't incur damage (another thing that saved us - the spreader bar bonked Snoopy on the head, but she was protected by thick padding). 7. Never stand in line with tensioned wire rope. When it snaps, it whips with tremendous force. Although at the time I was shocked that what happened actually occurred, in retrospect I'm happy it did, because for such a failure to occur at all, it couldn't have had a better outcome or made a stronger impression on me. Still a novice submersible operator, but getting better with each lesson I learn! ~ Douglas S. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 24 23:55:34 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 20:55:34 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2017 Convention thoughts Message-ID: <001a01d28f23$66f6e6d0$34e4b470$@telus.net> Any thoughts on the location for the PSubs convention this year? Perhaps on the left coast this time? May I suggest Redding, California with Wiskeytown Lake as the dive site and Hilltop Best Western as the hotel? Tim From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 25 07:42:20 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 07:42:20 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining In-Reply-To: <99C77C56-9A84-4E00-A22F-9B399EE14174@yahoo.com> References: <20170224164933.71B43787@m0087798.ppops.net> <99C77C56-9A84-4E00-A22F-9B399EE14174@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, I'm referring to this stuff: https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-sanding-rolls/=16i9o51 It's the same as regular sandpaper except it comes in long rolls. You just tear off say 2 feet of it. Pass it around the back of the piece you've just machined on the lathe. Start the lathe and work the strip back and forth while holding onto both ends of the strip. Spray with coolant for a smoother polish - That's it! Best, Alec On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 10:46 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Alec, > not quite following you. Do you mean cutting a strip of sandpaper > & rolling it length ways & taping it? I have just been using my hands > if it seems safe enough. Did lose a finger one time but not on a lathe :) > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 25/02/2017, at 4:19 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > Get yourself some rolls of sandpaper. Not sheets but rolls, about an inch > wide. When you're done turning your piece, crank up the speed a bit and put > a length of tape around it. It allows you to polish it up while keeping > your hands away. Go to your fine tape and then spray with coolant for the > final polish. I can't think of anything I turn on a lathe that I don't use > tape on. Ah, the only exception is plastic. > > > Best, > > Alec > > On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Thanks Brian & Hank, >> it was the outer egdes that I left sharp. >> It didn't cut nicely, it left a raised mound on the edge that I removed >> with a facing tool. >> I will either look in to a specific groove tool or better equipment for >> forming the >> tool as these are taking too long :( >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> > On 25/02/2017, at 1:49 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> > >> > >> > Don't need carbide for aluminum, did it cut nicely, aluminum likes high >> speed >> > >> > brian >> > >> > >> > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> > >> > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining >> > Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 12:41:39 +1300 >> > >> > Am cutting some small o-ring grooves in aluminum, 3.4mm x 2mm deep for >> > a 2.5mm D o-ring. ( 10th of an inch) What is the best way to remove the >> sharp >> > corners of the grove? I have read that you can spin your work in the >> lathe >> > & sand with 200 & then 400 grit sand paper. Is this right? >> > Have been having fun making the tool for this & don't think I have done >> a >> > good job! Am I best to buy a carbide tool specific for this job. >> > Thanks, Alan >> > >> > Sent from my iPad >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 25 07:46:27 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 07:46:27 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Great report Doug, thanks! I always maintain the most dangerous part of a little sub is in the workshop, and in particular the lifting. There's all sorts of precarious situations one can let onself into when you need to do things like flip the boat upside down to work on the bottom, etc. My scaries incident by far was when a chain lift broke and dropped Snoopy a foot onto the concrete floor of the garage. It was just a foot, but it was probably picked up by nearby seismographs. Best, Alec On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Holy smokes is this email overdue - sorry guys - better late than > never (right?). > > Greetings fellow PSUBBERS, Doug Jr. here with a basic trip / dive > report from our October, 2016 excursion to the Florida Keys with > submersible Snoopy. > > The group ended up being no more than my own family and my friend Mike > Patterson. > > To start off, we had a relatively limited amount of time on location > (about 6 days), considering that it was our first real trial with > Snoopy. Complicating matters was the fact that October is still within > hurricane season and the weather was not kind to us... we managed to > be down in the Keys between (and not during) hurricanes / tropical > storms, but the weather was still a major obstacle, giving us rain / > thunder / lightning / strong winds / rough seas / poor water > visibility... the works. Luckily the canal (of about 25 feet in depth) > offered us enough shelter to conduct some test dives in spite of > conditions. > > Snoopy herself offered us excellent service with no major issues (no > leaks, no electrical issues, etc). Prior to operation, we O2 cleaned > the entire oxygen system (hoses, gauge, reg, valves, etc.) and when > first in the water, my dad as support diver noticed an extremely small > O2 leak on the exterior reg (producing super small / slow bubbles in > the water). We rectified the problem by snugging up the fittings with > a wrench. > > With Snoopy right off the dock in the canal, we all had a great time > acquainting ourselves with buoyancy and thruster control, noting the > slight delay in reaction to input as well as the overall sensitivity > of the controls. > > In terms of trimming out for proper buoyancy (via trawl floats), I had > been concerned that Snoopy wouldn't provide enough positive buoyancy > for two heavier occupants, but my worries were belayed soon enough > when I tried to dive solo (with no floats in the tubes) and the sub > was WAY too buoyant. We ended up using all of the dive weights we had > on hand, plus a few 10 LB anchors that we had lying about and finally > I came to nearly neutral buoyancy (I weigh about 190lbs). > > I don't have much doubt now that we have enough flotation in the > submersible's current weight/float configuration to safely dive two > heavier occupants, however, we ran out of time to test with two people > aboard. > > Aside from limited time and poor conditions, here are a few other > issues we encountered: As Alec, Steve and anyone else who rode in > Snoppy down in the Keys can attest, it gets HOT in the hull when you > are on the surface (even if just for a couple of minutes). Being under > the dome (in the Keys) reminded me of being in a greenhouse: hot and > humid. We need a better way to control the humidity within the hull > (if nothing else than for the electronics' sake). Air conditioning > would be a dream! > > I made the silly mistake of not bringing a scale for proper weight > calculations (I assumed we had one at the house, but we didn't, then > couldn't find any at the local drug stores!?!?). So we were doing a > lot of guessing and checking when it came to trimming out. It took a > while, but we ended up getting a pretty good system figured out. > > The only real nasty experience we had through the duration of our stay > in the keys occurred when the davit we were using to launch and > recover the sub failed and dropped the sub down into the water. The > davits we use are rated at 5,500 LBS and Snoopy weighs in at around > 2600 LBS, so no problem... when the lifting equipment is new. Problem > is that these davits have galvanized cable that has a way of looking > healthy on the outside but ugly within the strands (after being > exposed to the elements for some time). On one of our last recoveries, > the cable of the davit we were using snapped violently, dropping the > sub about 5 feet through the air and right back into the canal. > Thankfully, it didn't occur when we were swinging the sub over the > concrete dock and no damage resulted... but it taught me a powerful > lesson in being prepared for the unexpected! > > I know that to most of you guys these tips are common sense, but for > the sake of safety, let me review a few things to consider when > launching/recovering with cranes/davits: > > 1. Never allow anyone under (or even close to) the vessel when it's > being hoisted. > 2. Use at least two tag-lines to control direction and arrest sway if > lifting from a single point crane. > 3. Don't lift higher than necessary. > 4. Inspect equipment regularly and replace components when necessary. > 5. Ensure hatch is closed and secured prior to lifting (this probably > saved Snoopy from going to the bottom of the canal, as the > 'splash-down' was extreme). > 6. (for dome hatched vessels), wrap spreader bars, pulleys, blocks and > other hardware in carpet (secured by tape or zip ties) so if a failure > occurs the submersible won't incur damage (another thing that saved us > - the spreader bar bonked Snoopy on the head, but she was protected by > thick padding). > 7. Never stand in line with tensioned wire rope. When it snaps, it > whips with tremendous force. > > Although at the time I was shocked that what happened actually > occurred, in retrospect I'm happy it did, because for such a failure > to occur at all, it couldn't have had a better outcome or made a > stronger impression on me. Still a novice submersible operator, but > getting better with each lesson I learn! ~ Douglas S. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 25 08:05:14 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 13:05:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2017 Convention thoughts In-Reply-To: <001a01d28f23$66f6e6d0$34e4b470$@telus.net> References: <001a01d28f23$66f6e6d0$34e4b470$@telus.net> Message-ID: <2070572242.146687.1488027914910@mail.yahoo.com> Tim,I like it !Hank On Friday, February 24, 2017 9:55 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Any thoughts on the location for the PSubs convention this year?? Perhaps on the left coast this time?? May I suggest Redding, California with Wiskeytown Lake as the dive site and Hilltop Best Western as the hotel? Tim _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 25 15:38:45 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2017 09:38:45 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining In-Reply-To: References: <20170224164933.71B43787@m0087798.ppops.net> <99C77C56-9A84-4E00-A22F-9B399EE14174@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Good idea Alec, you are turning your lathe in to a linisher. I am making my light housing at the moment, & a couple of these grooves are fiddly little internal grooves, that I need to get in to by hand but the sandpaper idea will be good for external work. I see you are down as machinist for Cliff's light housing. Have you done that yet? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 26/02/2017, at 1:42 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > I'm referring to this stuff: https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-sanding-rolls/=16i9o51 > > It's the same as regular sandpaper except it comes in long rolls. You just tear off say 2 feet of it. Pass it around the back of the piece you've just machined on the lathe. Start the lathe and work the strip back and forth while holding onto both ends of the strip. Spray with coolant for a smoother polish - That's it! > > > Best, > > Alec > >> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 10:46 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hi Alec, >> not quite following you. Do you mean cutting a strip of sandpaper >> & rolling it length ways & taping it? I have just been using my hands >> if it seems safe enough. Did lose a finger one time but not on a lathe :) >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 25/02/2017, at 4:19 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi Alan, >>> >>> Get yourself some rolls of sandpaper. Not sheets but rolls, about an inch wide. When you're done turning your piece, crank up the speed a bit and put a length of tape around it. It allows you to polish it up while keeping your hands away. Go to your fine tape and then spray with coolant for the final polish. I can't think of anything I turn on a lathe that I don't use tape on. Ah, the only exception is plastic. >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Thanks Brian & Hank, >>>> it was the outer egdes that I left sharp. >>>> It didn't cut nicely, it left a raised mound on the edge that I removed with a facing tool. >>>> I will either look in to a specific groove tool or better equipment for forming the >>>> tool as these are taking too long :( >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> > On 25/02/2017, at 1:49 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Don't need carbide for aluminum, did it cut nicely, aluminum likes high speed >>>> > >>>> > brian >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>> > >>>> > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining >>>> > Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 12:41:39 +1300 >>>> > >>>> > Am cutting some small o-ring grooves in aluminum, 3.4mm x 2mm deep for >>>> > a 2.5mm D o-ring. ( 10th of an inch) What is the best way to remove the sharp >>>> > corners of the grove? I have read that you can spin your work in the lathe >>>> > & sand with 200 & then 400 grit sand paper. Is this right? >>>> > Have been having fun making the tool for this & don't think I have done a >>>> > good job! Am I best to buy a carbide tool specific for this job. >>>> > Thanks, Alan >>>> > >>>> > Sent from my iPad >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 25 15:54:06 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 15:54:06 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2017 Convention thoughts Message-ID: Just scanned through the Whiskeytown Lake website and found the list of park rules and regs. ? 3.19 May I operate a submersible within park waters? The use of manned or unmanned submersibles may only occur in accordance with a permit issued by the superintendent under ? 1.6 of this chapter. ...So which one of you guys are responsible for that one? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 25 15:56:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 15:56:50 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining In-Reply-To: References: <20170224164933.71B43787@m0087798.ppops.net> <99C77C56-9A84-4E00-A22F-9B399EE14174@yahoo.com> Message-ID: As a matter of fact I just came inside to have a coffee and get off my feet for ten minutes because I'm making the Cliff lights right now. They're uber cool, and I think you could use them as a mallet they're so strong. I have not of course got to the point where I can test them, but I expect we'll all be diving in sunglasses. My first pair of lights are the 5K model, but I ended up with 10K Bridgeluxes by mistake so I'm going to have to make another pair. Perhaps the 10Ks looking forward and the 5Ks sideways for peripheral vision. To get an idea how ridiculous that would be, consider it's five times Snoopy's lumens. BTW for the inside polishing you can use sandpaper and a stick. Be careful though. Best, Alec On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 3:38 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Good idea Alec, > you are turning your lathe in to a linisher. > I am making my light housing at the moment, & a couple of these > grooves are fiddly little internal grooves, that I need to get in to by > hand > but the sandpaper idea will be good for external work. > I see you are down as machinist for Cliff's light housing. Have you done > that yet? > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 26/02/2017, at 1:42 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > I'm referring to this stuff: https://www.mcmaster. > com/#standard-sanding-rolls/=16i9o51 > > It's the same as regular sandpaper except it comes in long rolls. You just > tear off say 2 feet of it. Pass it around the back of the piece you've just > machined on the lathe. Start the lathe and work the strip back and forth > while holding onto both ends of the strip. Spray with coolant for a > smoother polish - That's it! > > > Best, > > Alec > > On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 10:46 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi Alec, >> not quite following you. Do you mean cutting a strip of sandpaper >> & rolling it length ways & taping it? I have just been using my hands >> if it seems safe enough. Did lose a finger one time but not on a lathe :) >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 25/02/2017, at 4:19 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi Alan, >> >> Get yourself some rolls of sandpaper. Not sheets but rolls, about an inch >> wide. When you're done turning your piece, crank up the speed a bit and put >> a length of tape around it. It allows you to polish it up while keeping >> your hands away. Go to your fine tape and then spray with coolant for the >> final polish. I can't think of anything I turn on a lathe that I don't use >> tape on. Ah, the only exception is plastic. >> >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Thanks Brian & Hank, >>> it was the outer egdes that I left sharp. >>> It didn't cut nicely, it left a raised mound on the edge that I removed >>> with a facing tool. >>> I will either look in to a specific groove tool or better equipment for >>> forming the >>> tool as these are taking too long :( >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> > On 25/02/2017, at 1:49 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > Don't need carbide for aluminum, did it cut nicely, aluminum likes >>> high speed >>> > >>> > brian >>> > >>> > >>> > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> > >>> > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining >>> > Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 12:41:39 +1300 >>> > >>> > Am cutting some small o-ring grooves in aluminum, 3.4mm x 2mm deep for >>> > a 2.5mm D o-ring. ( 10th of an inch) What is the best way to remove >>> the sharp >>> > corners of the grove? I have read that you can spin your work in the >>> lathe >>> > & sand with 200 & then 400 grit sand paper. Is this right? >>> > Have been having fun making the tool for this & don't think I have >>> done a >>> > good job! Am I best to buy a carbide tool specific for this job. >>> > Thanks, Alan >>> > >>> > Sent from my iPad >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 25 16:05:11 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 16:05:11 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank Tim. Yes, I do have a few photos which I will post on the site and then share the link. I would give a thousand dollars and my left eyeball for a video of that davit failure, unfortunately we didn't catch it on film. Alec, I agree with you that hoisting/maneuvering the hull is probably the most risky part of standard sub ops! In the aftermath of the incident, I remembered your story about Snoopy falling a short distance in your shop... she is a tried-and-true vessel, that's for sure. Re-reading my hastily prepared report, I now realize that I included nothing about what we did following the davit failure... so after we got over the shock and got our wits about us, dad jumped back in the water to make sure she wasn't leaking anywhere and to recover the spreader bar (still attached to snoopy's lifting lugs). Dad handed up the spreader, then slowly swam snoopy down to another davit, which Mike and I thoroughly inspected before snapping on the spreader and lowering it down to dad, who hooked her up for a second time that evening. With dad back out of the canal, we cautiously lifted Snoopy out of the water and onto the dock with the second davit. During our normal fresh water hose-down we spent extra time checking everything over to make sure any damage was discovered and noted, though we noticed nothing serious (unfortunately there is a fresh surface gouge in the port saddle tank where the spreader bar came to rest, but it's only cosmetic). ~ Doug On 2/25/17, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Great report Doug, thanks! I always maintain the most dangerous part of a > little sub is in the workshop, and in particular the lifting. There's all > sorts of precarious situations one can let onself into when you need to do > things like flip the boat upside down to work on the bottom, etc. My > scaries incident by far was when a chain lift broke and dropped Snoopy a > foot onto the concrete floor of the garage. It was just a foot, but it was > probably picked up by nearby seismographs. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Holy smokes is this email overdue - sorry guys - better late than >> never (right?). >> >> Greetings fellow PSUBBERS, Doug Jr. here with a basic trip / dive >> report from our October, 2016 excursion to the Florida Keys with >> submersible Snoopy. >> >> The group ended up being no more than my own family and my friend Mike >> Patterson. >> >> To start off, we had a relatively limited amount of time on location >> (about 6 days), considering that it was our first real trial with >> Snoopy. Complicating matters was the fact that October is still within >> hurricane season and the weather was not kind to us... we managed to >> be down in the Keys between (and not during) hurricanes / tropical >> storms, but the weather was still a major obstacle, giving us rain / >> thunder / lightning / strong winds / rough seas / poor water >> visibility... the works. Luckily the canal (of about 25 feet in depth) >> offered us enough shelter to conduct some test dives in spite of >> conditions. >> >> Snoopy herself offered us excellent service with no major issues (no >> leaks, no electrical issues, etc). Prior to operation, we O2 cleaned >> the entire oxygen system (hoses, gauge, reg, valves, etc.) and when >> first in the water, my dad as support diver noticed an extremely small >> O2 leak on the exterior reg (producing super small / slow bubbles in >> the water). We rectified the problem by snugging up the fittings with >> a wrench. >> >> With Snoopy right off the dock in the canal, we all had a great time >> acquainting ourselves with buoyancy and thruster control, noting the >> slight delay in reaction to input as well as the overall sensitivity >> of the controls. >> >> In terms of trimming out for proper buoyancy (via trawl floats), I had >> been concerned that Snoopy wouldn't provide enough positive buoyancy >> for two heavier occupants, but my worries were belayed soon enough >> when I tried to dive solo (with no floats in the tubes) and the sub >> was WAY too buoyant. We ended up using all of the dive weights we had >> on hand, plus a few 10 LB anchors that we had lying about and finally >> I came to nearly neutral buoyancy (I weigh about 190lbs). >> >> I don't have much doubt now that we have enough flotation in the >> submersible's current weight/float configuration to safely dive two >> heavier occupants, however, we ran out of time to test with two people >> aboard. >> >> Aside from limited time and poor conditions, here are a few other >> issues we encountered: As Alec, Steve and anyone else who rode in >> Snoppy down in the Keys can attest, it gets HOT in the hull when you >> are on the surface (even if just for a couple of minutes). Being under >> the dome (in the Keys) reminded me of being in a greenhouse: hot and >> humid. We need a better way to control the humidity within the hull >> (if nothing else than for the electronics' sake). Air conditioning >> would be a dream! >> >> I made the silly mistake of not bringing a scale for proper weight >> calculations (I assumed we had one at the house, but we didn't, then >> couldn't find any at the local drug stores!?!?). So we were doing a >> lot of guessing and checking when it came to trimming out. It took a >> while, but we ended up getting a pretty good system figured out. >> >> The only real nasty experience we had through the duration of our stay >> in the keys occurred when the davit we were using to launch and >> recover the sub failed and dropped the sub down into the water. The >> davits we use are rated at 5,500 LBS and Snoopy weighs in at around >> 2600 LBS, so no problem... when the lifting equipment is new. Problem >> is that these davits have galvanized cable that has a way of looking >> healthy on the outside but ugly within the strands (after being >> exposed to the elements for some time). On one of our last recoveries, >> the cable of the davit we were using snapped violently, dropping the >> sub about 5 feet through the air and right back into the canal. >> Thankfully, it didn't occur when we were swinging the sub over the >> concrete dock and no damage resulted... but it taught me a powerful >> lesson in being prepared for the unexpected! >> >> I know that to most of you guys these tips are common sense, but for >> the sake of safety, let me review a few things to consider when >> launching/recovering with cranes/davits: >> >> 1. Never allow anyone under (or even close to) the vessel when it's >> being hoisted. >> 2. Use at least two tag-lines to control direction and arrest sway if >> lifting from a single point crane. >> 3. Don't lift higher than necessary. >> 4. Inspect equipment regularly and replace components when necessary. >> 5. Ensure hatch is closed and secured prior to lifting (this probably >> saved Snoopy from going to the bottom of the canal, as the >> 'splash-down' was extreme). >> 6. (for dome hatched vessels), wrap spreader bars, pulleys, blocks and >> other hardware in carpet (secured by tape or zip ties) so if a failure >> occurs the submersible won't incur damage (another thing that saved us >> - the spreader bar bonked Snoopy on the head, but she was protected by >> thick padding). >> 7. Never stand in line with tensioned wire rope. When it snaps, it >> whips with tremendous force. >> >> Although at the time I was shocked that what happened actually >> occurred, in retrospect I'm happy it did, because for such a failure >> to occur at all, it couldn't have had a better outcome or made a >> stronger impression on me. Still a novice submersible operator, but >> getting better with each lesson I learn! ~ Douglas S. >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 25 16:29:36 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 16:29:36 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <15a772dd1d0-3329-df89@webprd-a42.mail.aol.com> Cosmetic? Pshaw! In Germany, real men have dueling scars. Gl?ckw?nsche! Vance -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sat, Feb 25, 2017 4:05 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... Thank Tim. Yes, I do have a few photos which I will post on the site and then share the link. I would give a thousand dollars and my left eyeball for a video of that davit failure, unfortunately we didn't catch it on film. Alec, I agree with you that hoisting/maneuvering the hull is probably the most risky part of standard sub ops! In the aftermath of the incident, I remembered your story about Snoopy falling a short distance in your shop... she is a tried-and-true vessel, that's for sure. Re-reading my hastily prepared report, I now realize that I included nothing about what we did following the davit failure... so after we got over the shock and got our wits about us, dad jumped back in the water to make sure she wasn't leaking anywhere and to recover the spreader bar (still attached to snoopy's lifting lugs). Dad handed up the spreader, then slowly swam snoopy down to another davit, which Mike and I thoroughly inspected before snapping on the spreader and lowering it down to dad, who hooked her up for a second time that evening. With dad back out of the canal, we cautiously lifted Snoopy out of the water and onto the dock with the second davit. During our normal fresh water hose-down we spent extra time checking everything over to make sure any damage was discovered and noted, though we noticed nothing serious (unfortunately there is a fresh surface gouge in the port saddle tank where the spreader bar came to rest, but it's only cosmetic). ~ Doug On 2/25/17, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Great report Doug, thanks! I always maintain the most dangerous part of a > little sub is in the workshop, and in particular the lifting. There's all > sorts of precarious situations one can let onself into when you need to do > things like flip the boat upside down to work on the bottom, etc. My > scaries incident by far was when a chain lift broke and dropped Snoopy a > foot onto the concrete floor of the garage. It was just a foot, but it was > probably picked up by nearby seismographs. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Holy smokes is this email overdue - sorry guys - better late than >> never (right?). >> >> Greetings fellow PSUBBERS, Doug Jr. here with a basic trip / dive >> report from our October, 2016 excursion to the Florida Keys with >> submersible Snoopy. >> >> The group ended up being no more than my own family and my friend Mike >> Patterson. >> >> To start off, we had a relatively limited amount of time on location >> (about 6 days), considering that it was our first real trial with >> Snoopy. Complicating matters was the fact that October is still within >> hurricane season and the weather was not kind to us... we managed to >> be down in the Keys between (and not during) hurricanes / tropical >> storms, but the weather was still a major obstacle, giving us rain / >> thunder / lightning / strong winds / rough seas / poor water >> visibility... the works. Luckily the canal (of about 25 feet in depth) >> offered us enough shelter to conduct some test dives in spite of >> conditions. >> >> Snoopy herself offered us excellent service with no major issues (no >> leaks, no electrical issues, etc). Prior to operation, we O2 cleaned >> the entire oxygen system (hoses, gauge, reg, valves, etc.) and when >> first in the water, my dad as support diver noticed an extremely small >> O2 leak on the exterior reg (producing super small / slow bubbles in >> the water). We rectified the problem by snugging up the fittings with >> a wrench. >> >> With Snoopy right off the dock in the canal, we all had a great time >> acquainting ourselves with buoyancy and thruster control, noting the >> slight delay in reaction to input as well as the overall sensitivity >> of the controls. >> >> In terms of trimming out for proper buoyancy (via trawl floats), I had >> been concerned that Snoopy wouldn't provide enough positive buoyancy >> for two heavier occupants, but my worries were belayed soon enough >> when I tried to dive solo (with no floats in the tubes) and the sub >> was WAY too buoyant. We ended up using all of the dive weights we had >> on hand, plus a few 10 LB anchors that we had lying about and finally >> I came to nearly neutral buoyancy (I weigh about 190lbs). >> >> I don't have much doubt now that we have enough flotation in the >> submersible's current weight/float configuration to safely dive two >> heavier occupants, however, we ran out of time to test with two people >> aboard. >> >> Aside from limited time and poor conditions, here are a few other >> issues we encountered: As Alec, Steve and anyone else who rode in >> Snoppy down in the Keys can attest, it gets HOT in the hull when you >> are on the surface (even if just for a couple of minutes). Being under >> the dome (in the Keys) reminded me of being in a greenhouse: hot and >> humid. We need a better way to control the humidity within the hull >> (if nothing else than for the electronics' sake). Air conditioning >> would be a dream! >> >> I made the silly mistake of not bringing a scale for proper weight >> calculations (I assumed we had one at the house, but we didn't, then >> couldn't find any at the local drug stores!?!?). So we were doing a >> lot of guessing and checking when it came to trimming out. It took a >> while, but we ended up getting a pretty good system figured out. >> >> The only real nasty experience we had through the duration of our stay >> in the keys occurred when the davit we were using to launch and >> recover the sub failed and dropped the sub down into the water. The >> davits we use are rated at 5,500 LBS and Snoopy weighs in at around >> 2600 LBS, so no problem... when the lifting equipment is new. Problem >> is that these davits have galvanized cable that has a way of looking >> healthy on the outside but ugly within the strands (after being >> exposed to the elements for some time). On one of our last recoveries, >> the cable of the davit we were using snapped violently, dropping the >> sub about 5 feet through the air and right back into the canal. >> Thankfully, it didn't occur when we were swinging the sub over the >> concrete dock and no damage resulted... but it taught me a powerful >> lesson in being prepared for the unexpected! >> >> I know that to most of you guys these tips are common sense, but for >> the sake of safety, let me review a few things to consider when >> launching/recovering with cranes/davits: >> >> 1. Never allow anyone under (or even close to) the vessel when it's >> being hoisted. >> 2. Use at least two tag-lines to control direction and arrest sway if >> lifting from a single point crane. >> 3. Don't lift higher than necessary. >> 4. Inspect equipment regularly and replace components when necessary. >> 5. Ensure hatch is closed and secured prior to lifting (this probably >> saved Snoopy from going to the bottom of the canal, as the >> 'splash-down' was extreme). >> 6. (for dome hatched vessels), wrap spreader bars, pulleys, blocks and >> other hardware in carpet (secured by tape or zip ties) so if a failure >> occurs the submersible won't incur damage (another thing that saved us >> - the spreader bar bonked Snoopy on the head, but she was protected by >> thick padding). >> 7. Never stand in line with tensioned wire rope. When it snaps, it >> whips with tremendous force. >> >> Although at the time I was shocked that what happened actually >> occurred, in retrospect I'm happy it did, because for such a failure >> to occur at all, it couldn't have had a better outcome or made a >> stronger impression on me. Still a novice submersible operator, but >> getting better with each lesson I learn! ~ Douglas S. >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 25 16:40:47 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 16:40:47 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... In-Reply-To: <15a772dd1d0-3329-df89@webprd-a42.mail.aol.com> References: <15a772dd1d0-3329-df89@webprd-a42.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: So true... a battle scar from the fight with the davit. :) On 2/25/17, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Cosmetic? Pshaw! In Germany, real men have dueling scars. Gl?ckw?nsche! > Vance > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Sent: Sat, Feb 25, 2017 4:05 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip / Dive Report... > > Thank Tim. Yes, I do have a few photos which I will post on the site > and then share the link. I would give a thousand dollars and my left > eyeball for a video of that davit failure, unfortunately we didn't > catch it on film. > > Alec, I agree with you that hoisting/maneuvering the hull is probably > the most risky part of standard sub ops! In the aftermath of the > incident, I remembered your story about Snoopy falling a short > distance in your shop... she is a tried-and-true vessel, that's for > sure. > > Re-reading my hastily prepared report, I now realize that I included > nothing about what we did following the davit failure... so after we > got over the shock and got our wits about us, dad jumped back in the > water to make sure she wasn't leaking anywhere and to recover the > spreader bar (still attached to snoopy's lifting lugs). Dad handed up > the spreader, then slowly swam snoopy down to another davit, which > Mike and I thoroughly inspected before snapping on the spreader and > lowering it down to dad, who hooked her up for a second time that > evening. > > With dad back out of the canal, we cautiously lifted Snoopy out of the > water and onto the dock with the second davit. During our normal fresh > water hose-down we spent extra time checking everything over to make > sure any damage was discovered and noted, though we noticed nothing > serious (unfortunately there is a fresh surface gouge in the port > saddle tank where the spreader bar came to rest, but it's only > cosmetic). ~ Doug > > On 2/25/17, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> Great report Doug, thanks! I always maintain the most dangerous part of a >> little sub is in the workshop, and in particular the lifting. There's all >> sorts of precarious situations one can let onself into when you need to >> do >> things like flip the boat upside down to work on the bottom, etc. My >> scaries incident by far was when a chain lift broke and dropped Snoopy a >> foot onto the concrete floor of the garage. It was just a foot, but it >> was >> probably picked up by nearby seismographs. >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Holy smokes is this email overdue - sorry guys - better late than >>> never (right?). >>> >>> Greetings fellow PSUBBERS, Doug Jr. here with a basic trip / dive >>> report from our October, 2016 excursion to the Florida Keys with >>> submersible Snoopy. >>> >>> The group ended up being no more than my own family and my friend Mike >>> Patterson. >>> >>> To start off, we had a relatively limited amount of time on location >>> (about 6 days), considering that it was our first real trial with >>> Snoopy. Complicating matters was the fact that October is still within >>> hurricane season and the weather was not kind to us... we managed to >>> be down in the Keys between (and not during) hurricanes / tropical >>> storms, but the weather was still a major obstacle, giving us rain / >>> thunder / lightning / strong winds / rough seas / poor water >>> visibility... the works. Luckily the canal (of about 25 feet in depth) >>> offered us enough shelter to conduct some test dives in spite of >>> conditions. >>> >>> Snoopy herself offered us excellent service with no major issues (no >>> leaks, no electrical issues, etc). Prior to operation, we O2 cleaned >>> the entire oxygen system (hoses, gauge, reg, valves, etc.) and when >>> first in the water, my dad as support diver noticed an extremely small >>> O2 leak on the exterior reg (producing super small / slow bubbles in >>> the water). We rectified the problem by snugging up the fittings with >>> a wrench. >>> >>> With Snoopy right off the dock in the canal, we all had a great time >>> acquainting ourselves with buoyancy and thruster control, noting the >>> slight delay in reaction to input as well as the overall sensitivity >>> of the controls. >>> >>> In terms of trimming out for proper buoyancy (via trawl floats), I had >>> been concerned that Snoopy wouldn't provide enough positive buoyancy >>> for two heavier occupants, but my worries were belayed soon enough >>> when I tried to dive solo (with no floats in the tubes) and the sub >>> was WAY too buoyant. We ended up using all of the dive weights we had >>> on hand, plus a few 10 LB anchors that we had lying about and finally >>> I came to nearly neutral buoyancy (I weigh about 190lbs). >>> >>> I don't have much doubt now that we have enough flotation in the >>> submersible's current weight/float configuration to safely dive two >>> heavier occupants, however, we ran out of time to test with two people >>> aboard. >>> >>> Aside from limited time and poor conditions, here are a few other >>> issues we encountered: As Alec, Steve and anyone else who rode in >>> Snoppy down in the Keys can attest, it gets HOT in the hull when you >>> are on the surface (even if just for a couple of minutes). Being under >>> the dome (in the Keys) reminded me of being in a greenhouse: hot and >>> humid. We need a better way to control the humidity within the hull >>> (if nothing else than for the electronics' sake). Air conditioning >>> would be a dream! >>> >>> I made the silly mistake of not bringing a scale for proper weight >>> calculations (I assumed we had one at the house, but we didn't, then >>> couldn't find any at the local drug stores!?!?). So we were doing a >>> lot of guessing and checking when it came to trimming out. It took a >>> while, but we ended up getting a pretty good system figured out. >>> >>> The only real nasty experience we had through the duration of our stay >>> in the keys occurred when the davit we were using to launch and >>> recover the sub failed and dropped the sub down into the water. The >>> davits we use are rated at 5,500 LBS and Snoopy weighs in at around >>> 2600 LBS, so no problem... when the lifting equipment is new. Problem >>> is that these davits have galvanized cable that has a way of looking >>> healthy on the outside but ugly within the strands (after being >>> exposed to the elements for some time). On one of our last recoveries, >>> the cable of the davit we were using snapped violently, dropping the >>> sub about 5 feet through the air and right back into the canal. >>> Thankfully, it didn't occur when we were swinging the sub over the >>> concrete dock and no damage resulted... but it taught me a powerful >>> lesson in being prepared for the unexpected! >>> >>> I know that to most of you guys these tips are common sense, but for >>> the sake of safety, let me review a few things to consider when >>> launching/recovering with cranes/davits: >>> >>> 1. Never allow anyone under (or even close to) the vessel when it's >>> being hoisted. >>> 2. Use at least two tag-lines to control direction and arrest sway if >>> lifting from a single point crane. >>> 3. Don't lift higher than necessary. >>> 4. Inspect equipment regularly and replace components when necessary. >>> 5. Ensure hatch is closed and secured prior to lifting (this probably >>> saved Snoopy from going to the bottom of the canal, as the >>> 'splash-down' was extreme). >>> 6. (for dome hatched vessels), wrap spreader bars, pulleys, blocks and >>> other hardware in carpet (secured by tape or zip ties) so if a failure >>> occurs the submersible won't incur damage (another thing that saved us >>> - the spreader bar bonked Snoopy on the head, but she was protected by >>> thick padding). >>> 7. Never stand in line with tensioned wire rope. When it snaps, it >>> whips with tremendous force. >>> >>> Although at the time I was shocked that what happened actually >>> occurred, in retrospect I'm happy it did, because for such a failure >>> to occur at all, it couldn't have had a better outcome or made a >>> stronger impression on me. Still a novice submersible operator, but >>> getting better with each lesson I learn! ~ Douglas S. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 25 18:48:57 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2017 12:48:57 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining In-Reply-To: References: <20170224164933.71B43787@m0087798.ppops.net> <99C77C56-9A84-4E00-A22F-9B399EE14174@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alec, you can just drive those 100w lights at a lower amperage. On my controller it is a matter of turning a trim pot. I intend to use the same light & emitter for my navigation lights by attaching a coloured acrylic hemisphere with holes in it over the pressure lens, & turning down the power. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 26/02/2017, at 9:56 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > As a matter of fact I just came inside to have a coffee and get off my feet for ten minutes because I'm making the Cliff lights right now. They're uber cool, and I think you could use them as a mallet they're so strong. I have not of course got to the point where I can test them, but I expect we'll all be diving in sunglasses. My first pair of lights are the 5K model, but I ended up with 10K Bridgeluxes by mistake so I'm going to have to make another pair. Perhaps the 10Ks looking forward and the 5Ks sideways for peripheral vision. To get an idea how ridiculous that would be, consider it's five times Snoopy's lumens. > > BTW for the inside polishing you can use sandpaper and a stick. Be careful though. > > > Best, > > Alec > > > >> On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 3:38 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Good idea Alec, >> you are turning your lathe in to a linisher. >> I am making my light housing at the moment, & a couple of these >> grooves are fiddly little internal grooves, that I need to get in to by hand >> but the sandpaper idea will be good for external work. >> I see you are down as machinist for Cliff's light housing. Have you done that yet? >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 26/02/2017, at 1:42 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi Alan, >>> >>> I'm referring to this stuff: https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-sanding-rolls/=16i9o51 >>> >>> It's the same as regular sandpaper except it comes in long rolls. You just tear off say 2 feet of it. Pass it around the back of the piece you've just machined on the lathe. Start the lathe and work the strip back and forth while holding onto both ends of the strip. Spray with coolant for a smoother polish - That's it! >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 10:46 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Hi Alec, >>>> not quite following you. Do you mean cutting a strip of sandpaper >>>> & rolling it length ways & taping it? I have just been using my hands >>>> if it seems safe enough. Did lose a finger one time but not on a lathe :) >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 25/02/2017, at 4:19 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Alan, >>>>> >>>>> Get yourself some rolls of sandpaper. Not sheets but rolls, about an inch wide. When you're done turning your piece, crank up the speed a bit and put a length of tape around it. It allows you to polish it up while keeping your hands away. Go to your fine tape and then spray with coolant for the final polish. I can't think of anything I turn on a lathe that I don't use tape on. Ah, the only exception is plastic. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Alec >>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> Thanks Brian & Hank, >>>>>> it was the outer egdes that I left sharp. >>>>>> It didn't cut nicely, it left a raised mound on the edge that I removed with a facing tool. >>>>>> I will either look in to a specific groove tool or better equipment for forming the >>>>>> tool as these are taking too long :( >>>>>> Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>> >>>>>> > On 25/02/2017, at 1:49 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Don't need carbide for aluminum, did it cut nicely, aluminum likes high speed >>>>>> > >>>>>> > brian >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining >>>>>> > Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 12:41:39 +1300 >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Am cutting some small o-ring grooves in aluminum, 3.4mm x 2mm deep for >>>>>> > a 2.5mm D o-ring. ( 10th of an inch) What is the best way to remove the sharp >>>>>> > corners of the grove? I have read that you can spin your work in the lathe >>>>>> > & sand with 200 & then 400 grit sand paper. Is this right? >>>>>> > Have been having fun making the tool for this & don't think I have done a >>>>>> > good job! Am I best to buy a carbide tool specific for this job. >>>>>> > Thanks, Alan >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Sent from my iPad >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 25 19:01:40 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 19:01:40 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining In-Reply-To: References: <20170224164933.71B43787@m0087798.ppops.net> <99C77C56-9A84-4E00-A22F-9B399EE14174@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes, but I meant "ridiculous" in a good way! On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 6:48 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, > you can just drive those 100w lights at a lower amperage. > On my controller it is a matter of turning a trim pot. > I intend to use the same light & emitter for my navigation > lights by attaching a coloured acrylic hemisphere with holes > in it over the pressure lens, & turning down the power. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 26/02/2017, at 9:56 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > As a matter of fact I just came inside to have a coffee and get off my > feet for ten minutes because I'm making the Cliff lights right now. They're > uber cool, and I think you could use them as a mallet they're so strong. I > have not of course got to the point where I can test them, but I expect > we'll all be diving in sunglasses. My first pair of lights are the 5K > model, but I ended up with 10K Bridgeluxes by mistake so I'm going to have > to make another pair. Perhaps the 10Ks looking forward and the 5Ks sideways > for peripheral vision. To get an idea how ridiculous that would be, > consider it's five times Snoopy's lumens. > > BTW for the inside polishing you can use sandpaper and a stick. Be careful > though. > > > Best, > > Alec > > > > On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 3:38 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Good idea Alec, >> you are turning your lathe in to a linisher. >> I am making my light housing at the moment, & a couple of these >> grooves are fiddly little internal grooves, that I need to get in to by >> hand >> but the sandpaper idea will be good for external work. >> I see you are down as machinist for Cliff's light housing. Have you done >> that yet? >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 26/02/2017, at 1:42 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi Alan, >> >> I'm referring to this stuff: https://www.mcmaster.co >> m/#standard-sanding-rolls/=16i9o51 >> >> It's the same as regular sandpaper except it comes in long rolls. You >> just tear off say 2 feet of it. Pass it around the back of the piece you've >> just machined on the lathe. Start the lathe and work the strip back and >> forth while holding onto both ends of the strip. Spray with coolant for a >> smoother polish - That's it! >> >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 10:46 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi Alec, >>> not quite following you. Do you mean cutting a strip of sandpaper >>> & rolling it length ways & taping it? I have just been using my hands >>> if it seems safe enough. Did lose a finger one time but not on a lathe :) >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 25/02/2017, at 4:19 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Alan, >>> >>> Get yourself some rolls of sandpaper. Not sheets but rolls, about an >>> inch wide. When you're done turning your piece, crank up the speed a bit >>> and put a length of tape around it. It allows you to polish it up while >>> keeping your hands away. Go to your fine tape and then spray with coolant >>> for the final polish. I can't think of anything I turn on a lathe that I >>> don't use tape on. Ah, the only exception is plastic. >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks Brian & Hank, >>>> it was the outer egdes that I left sharp. >>>> It didn't cut nicely, it left a raised mound on the edge that I removed >>>> with a facing tool. >>>> I will either look in to a specific groove tool or better equipment >>>> for forming the >>>> tool as these are taking too long :( >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> > On 25/02/2017, at 1:49 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Don't need carbide for aluminum, did it cut nicely, aluminum likes >>>> high speed >>>> > >>>> > brian >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>> > >>>> > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> > >>>> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining >>>> > Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 12:41:39 +1300 >>>> > >>>> > Am cutting some small o-ring grooves in aluminum, 3.4mm x 2mm deep for >>>> > a 2.5mm D o-ring. ( 10th of an inch) What is the best way to remove >>>> the sharp >>>> > corners of the grove? I have read that you can spin your work in the >>>> lathe >>>> > & sand with 200 & then 400 grit sand paper. Is this right? >>>> > Have been having fun making the tool for this & don't think I have >>>> done a >>>> > good job! Am I best to buy a carbide tool specific for this job. >>>> > Thanks, Alan >>>> > >>>> > Sent from my iPad >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 25 19:15:41 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2017 13:15:41 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining In-Reply-To: References: <20170224164933.71B43787@m0087798.ppops.net> <99C77C56-9A84-4E00-A22F-9B399EE14174@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2149A83C-24D7-4B74-AFF5-D82F031AD922@yahoo.com> Alec, while I'm at it; if you want to do what I am doing & use the lights also for navigation, you could use the empty light housing to form green & red acrylic disks in to a slight hemispherical shape. Just clamp the heated disk under the top retaining ring & attach a hose for blowing the bubble, to the electrical port. It is possibly better to use a 100W led cob & drive it at 50W, than using a 50W cob (chip on board) as it should run cooler. Not 100% sure on this as a 100W cob has twice as many leds for the same area. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 26/02/2017, at 1:01 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Yes, but I meant "ridiculous" in a good way! > >> On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 6:48 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alec, >> you can just drive those 100w lights at a lower amperage. >> On my controller it is a matter of turning a trim pot. >> I intend to use the same light & emitter for my navigation >> lights by attaching a coloured acrylic hemisphere with holes >> in it over the pressure lens, & turning down the power. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 26/02/2017, at 9:56 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> As a matter of fact I just came inside to have a coffee and get off my feet for ten minutes because I'm making the Cliff lights right now. They're uber cool, and I think you could use them as a mallet they're so strong. I have not of course got to the point where I can test them, but I expect we'll all be diving in sunglasses. My first pair of lights are the 5K model, but I ended up with 10K Bridgeluxes by mistake so I'm going to have to make another pair. Perhaps the 10Ks looking forward and the 5Ks sideways for peripheral vision. To get an idea how ridiculous that would be, consider it's five times Snoopy's lumens. >>> >>> BTW for the inside polishing you can use sandpaper and a stick. Be careful though. >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 3:38 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Good idea Alec, >>>> you are turning your lathe in to a linisher. >>>> I am making my light housing at the moment, & a couple of these >>>> grooves are fiddly little internal grooves, that I need to get in to by hand >>>> but the sandpaper idea will be good for external work. >>>> I see you are down as machinist for Cliff's light housing. Have you done that yet? >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 26/02/2017, at 1:42 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Alan, >>>>> >>>>> I'm referring to this stuff: https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-sanding-rolls/=16i9o51 >>>>> >>>>> It's the same as regular sandpaper except it comes in long rolls. You just tear off say 2 feet of it. Pass it around the back of the piece you've just machined on the lathe. Start the lathe and work the strip back and forth while holding onto both ends of the strip. Spray with coolant for a smoother polish - That's it! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Alec >>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 10:46 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> Hi Alec, >>>>>> not quite following you. Do you mean cutting a strip of sandpaper >>>>>> & rolling it length ways & taping it? I have just been using my hands >>>>>> if it seems safe enough. Did lose a finger one time but not on a lathe :) >>>>>> Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 25/02/2017, at 4:19 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Alan, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Get yourself some rolls of sandpaper. Not sheets but rolls, about an inch wide. When you're done turning your piece, crank up the speed a bit and put a length of tape around it. It allows you to polish it up while keeping your hands away. Go to your fine tape and then spray with coolant for the final polish. I can't think of anything I turn on a lathe that I don't use tape on. Ah, the only exception is plastic. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Alec >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> Thanks Brian & Hank, >>>>>>>> it was the outer egdes that I left sharp. >>>>>>>> It didn't cut nicely, it left a raised mound on the edge that I removed with a facing tool. >>>>>>>> I will either look in to a specific groove tool or better equipment for forming the >>>>>>>> tool as these are taking too long :( >>>>>>>> Alan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > On 25/02/2017, at 1:49 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Don't need carbide for aluminum, did it cut nicely, aluminum likes high speed >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > brian >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>>> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining >>>>>>>> > Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 12:41:39 +1300 >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Am cutting some small o-ring grooves in aluminum, 3.4mm x 2mm deep for >>>>>>>> > a 2.5mm D o-ring. ( 10th of an inch) What is the best way to remove the sharp >>>>>>>> > corners of the grove? I have read that you can spin your work in the lathe >>>>>>>> > & sand with 200 & then 400 grit sand paper. Is this right? >>>>>>>> > Have been having fun making the tool for this & don't think I have done a >>>>>>>> > good job! Am I best to buy a carbide tool specific for this job. >>>>>>>> > Thanks, Alan >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Sent from my iPad >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 26 01:40:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 22:40:49 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2017 Convention thoughts In-Reply-To: hjMxcISS6aKMWhjMycMkSx References: hjMxcISS6aKMWhjMycMkSx Message-ID: <002601d28ffb$45a32a10$d0e97e30$@telus.net> A permit is required to operate a personal submersible in a public lake? This is most unexpected. I will look into it further and see what it takes so as to determine if this location is even feasible. Thanks for letting me know. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2017 12:54 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2017 Convention thoughts Just scanned through the Whiskeytown Lake website and found the list of park rules and regs. ? 3.19 May I operate a submersible within park waters? The use of manned or unmanned submersibles may only occur in accordance with a permit issued by the superintendent under ? 1.6 of this chapter. ...So which one of you guys are responsible for that one? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 26 07:17:44 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2017 12:17:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2017 Convention thoughts In-Reply-To: <002601d28ffb$45a32a10$d0e97e30$@telus.net> References: <002601d28ffb$45a32a10$d0e97e30$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1418977458.1145545.1488111464549@mail.yahoo.com> Tim,Maybe a lake in Canada, like Stave Lake by Mission. ?It is nice and close to Vancouver airport. ?I have been looking at it on Google earth and it seems to have a nice ramp. Hank On Saturday, February 25, 2017 11:41 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv0849709652 #yiv0849709652 -- _filtered #yiv0849709652 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0849709652 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv0849709652 #yiv0849709652 p.yiv0849709652MsoNormal, #yiv0849709652 li.yiv0849709652MsoNormal, #yiv0849709652 div.yiv0849709652MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv0849709652 a:link, #yiv0849709652 span.yiv0849709652MsoHyperlink {color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0849709652 a:visited, #yiv0849709652 span.yiv0849709652MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0849709652 span.yiv0849709652EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv0849709652 .yiv0849709652MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv0849709652 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv0849709652 div.yiv0849709652WordSection1 {}#yiv0849709652 A permit is required to operate a personal submersible in a public lake?? This is most unexpected. ?I will look into it further and see what it takes so as to determine if this location is even feasible. Thanks for letting me know.Tim ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2017 12:54 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2017 Convention thoughts ?Just scanned through the Whiskeytown Lake website and found the list of park rules and regs.? 3.19 ??? May I operate a submersible within park waters? ??? The use of manned or unmanned submersibles may only occur in accordance with a permit issued by the superintendent under ? 1.6 of this chapter. ...So which one of you guys are responsible for that one? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 26 08:32:21 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2017 08:32:21 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2017 Convention thoughts In-Reply-To: <1418977458.1145545.1488111464549@mail.yahoo.com> References: <002601d28ffb$45a32a10$d0e97e30$@telus.net> <1418977458.1145545.1488111464549@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, funny you would mention a lake in Canada because just last night at dinner, my dad suggested that maybe we propose a convention at a lake in Ontario that our family frequents in the summer. Cold and clean water, as usual. In 2015, we recovered a 9.9 Johnson that had be lost two years earlier (2013)... dad had it running in about 5 hours. Only in Canada! ~ Doug On 2/26/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Tim,Maybe a lake in Canada, like Stave Lake by Mission. It is nice and > close to Vancouver airport. I have been looking at it on Google earth and > it seems to have a nice ramp. > Hank > > On Saturday, February 25, 2017 11:41 PM, T Novak via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > #yiv0849709652 #yiv0849709652 -- _filtered #yiv0849709652 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 > 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0849709652 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 > 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv0849709652 #yiv0849709652 p.yiv0849709652MsoNormal, > #yiv0849709652 li.yiv0849709652MsoNormal, #yiv0849709652 > div.yiv0849709652MsoNormal > {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv0849709652 a:link, > #yiv0849709652 span.yiv0849709652MsoHyperlink > {color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0849709652 a:visited, > #yiv0849709652 span.yiv0849709652MsoHyperlinkFollowed > {color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0849709652 > span.yiv0849709652EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv0849709652 > .yiv0849709652MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv0849709652 {margin:1.0in 1.0in > 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv0849709652 div.yiv0849709652WordSection1 {}#yiv0849709652 A > permit is required to operate a personal submersible in a public lake? This > is most unexpected. I will look into it further and see what it takes so as > to determine if this location is even feasible. Thanks for letting me > know.Tim From: Personal_Submersibles > [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of River Dolfi > via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2017 12:54 PM > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2017 Convention thoughts Just scanned through the > Whiskeytown Lake website and found the list of park rules and regs.? 3.19 > May I operate a submersible within park waters? > The use of manned or unmanned submersibles may only occur in accordance > with a permit issued by the superintendent under ? 1.6 of this chapter. > > ...So which one of you guys are responsible for that one? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 26 09:39:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2017 14:39:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2017 Convention thoughts In-Reply-To: References: <002601d28ffb$45a32a10$d0e97e30$@telus.net> <1418977458.1145545.1488111464549@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <517138134.1211086.1488119983058@mail.yahoo.com> Doug,I like the idea of Canada because I can tow Gamma easily ?and my last border crossing was not so pleasant. ?Hank On Sunday, February 26, 2017 6:32 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, funny you would mention a lake in Canada because just last night at dinner, my dad suggested that maybe we propose a convention at a lake in Ontario that our family frequents in the summer. Cold and clean water, as usual. In 2015, we recovered a 9.9 Johnson that had be lost two years earlier (2013)... dad had it running in about 5 hours. Only in Canada! ~ Doug On 2/26/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Tim,Maybe a lake in Canada, like Stave Lake by Mission.? It is nice and > close to Vancouver airport.? I have been looking at it on Google earth and > it seems to have a nice ramp. > Hank > >? ? On Saturday, February 25, 2017 11:41 PM, T Novak via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >? #yiv0849709652 #yiv0849709652 -- _filtered #yiv0849709652 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 > 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0849709652 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 > 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv0849709652 #yiv0849709652 p.yiv0849709652MsoNormal, > #yiv0849709652 li.yiv0849709652MsoNormal, #yiv0849709652 > div.yiv0849709652MsoNormal > {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv0849709652 a:link, > #yiv0849709652 span.yiv0849709652MsoHyperlink > {color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0849709652 a:visited, > #yiv0849709652 span.yiv0849709652MsoHyperlinkFollowed > {color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0849709652 > span.yiv0849709652EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv0849709652 > .yiv0849709652MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv0849709652 {margin:1.0in 1.0in > 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv0849709652 div.yiv0849709652WordSection1 {}#yiv0849709652 A > permit is required to operate a personal submersible in a public lake?? This > is most unexpected.? I will look into it further and see what it takes so as > to determine if this location is even feasible. Thanks for letting me > know.Tim? From: Personal_Submersibles > [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of River Dolfi > via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2017 12:54 PM > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2017 Convention thoughts? Just scanned through the > Whiskeytown Lake website and found the list of park rules and regs.? 3.19 >? ? May I operate a submersible within park waters? >? ? The use of manned or unmanned submersibles may only occur in accordance > with a permit issued by the superintendent under ? 1.6 of this chapter. > > ...So which one of you guys are responsible for that one? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 26 11:56:34 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2017 11:56:34 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2017 Convention thoughts In-Reply-To: <517138134.1211086.1488119983058@mail.yahoo.com> References: <002601d28ffb$45a32a10$d0e97e30$@telus.net> <1418977458.1145545.1488111464549@mail.yahoo.com> <517138134.1211086.1488119983058@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sorry to hear that Hank, did you have a sub with you, or do you mean in general it just wasn't easy? We usually have an easy-breezy crossing, albeit we haven't tried with Snoopy yet. ~ Doug On 2/26/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Doug,I like the idea of Canada because I can tow Gamma easily and my last > border crossing was not so pleasant. Hank > > On Sunday, February 26, 2017 6:32 AM, Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, funny you would mention a lake in Canada because just last night > at dinner, my dad suggested that maybe we propose a convention at a > lake in Ontario that our family frequents in the summer. Cold and > clean water, as usual. In 2015, we recovered a 9.9 Johnson that had be > lost two years earlier (2013)... dad had it running in about 5 hours. > Only in Canada! ~ Doug > > On 2/26/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> Tim,Maybe a lake in Canada, like Stave Lake by Mission. It is nice and >> close to Vancouver airport. I have been looking at it on Google earth >> and >> it seems to have a nice ramp. >> Hank >> >> On Saturday, February 25, 2017 11:41 PM, T Novak via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> #yiv0849709652 #yiv0849709652 -- _filtered #yiv0849709652 {panose-1:2 4 5 >> 3 >> 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0849709652 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 >> 5 >> 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv0849709652 #yiv0849709652 p.yiv0849709652MsoNormal, >> #yiv0849709652 li.yiv0849709652MsoNormal, #yiv0849709652 >> div.yiv0849709652MsoNormal >> {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv0849709652 >> a:link, >> #yiv0849709652 span.yiv0849709652MsoHyperlink >> {color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0849709652 a:visited, >> #yiv0849709652 span.yiv0849709652MsoHyperlinkFollowed >> {color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0849709652 >> span.yiv0849709652EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv0849709652 >> .yiv0849709652MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv0849709652 {margin:1.0in >> 1.0in >> 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv0849709652 div.yiv0849709652WordSection1 {}#yiv0849709652 >> A >> permit is required to operate a personal submersible in a public lake? >> This >> is most unexpected. I will look into it further and see what it takes so >> as >> to determine if this location is even feasible. Thanks for letting me >> know.Tim From: Personal_Submersibles >> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of River Dolfi >> via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2017 12:54 PM >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2017 Convention thoughts Just scanned through >> the >> Whiskeytown Lake website and found the list of park rules and regs.? 3.19 >> May I operate a submersible within park waters? >> The use of manned or unmanned submersibles may only occur in >> accordance >> with a permit issued by the superintendent under ? 1.6 of this chapter. >> >> ...So which one of you guys are responsible for that one? >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 26 15:58:54 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 09:58:54 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining In-Reply-To: <99C77C56-9A84-4E00-A22F-9B399EE14174@yahoo.com> References: <20170224164933.71B43787@m0087798.ppops.net> <99C77C56-9A84-4E00-A22F-9B399EE14174@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1b0f01d29073$268e3b60$73aab220$@gmail.com> Alan, They call it emery Tape or metalcloth here and it comes in rolls about 300mm diameter. You can get different widths but we use 40mm width and 120 or 150 grit. Paykels, Trade tools, Machinery house, Chevpac. Now you have had a few hours on your lathe you should come out to see how to do things properly. It takes years to become a good machinist. The first thing in your workshop should be a bench grinder to sharpen tools. As you are mainly into aluminium then you are best to use High speed steel and then you can make your own grooving tools etc. IT is too costly to get carbide for all the different things you want to make, especially if they are one-offs. You are trying to make critical parts so you should enrol at Unitec for a machining course. Otherwise you can come out and I will give you a few tips on what is available and how best to approach it all. Rgds, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 25 February 2017 4:46 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining Hi Alec, not quite following you. Do you mean cutting a strip of sandpaper & rolling it length ways & taping it? I have just been using my hands if it seems safe enough. Did lose a finger one time but not on a lathe :) Alan Sent from my iPad On 25/02/2017, at 4:19 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, Get yourself some rolls of sandpaper. Not sheets but rolls, about an inch wide. When you're done turning your piece, crank up the speed a bit and put a length of tape around it. It allows you to polish it up while keeping your hands away. Go to your fine tape and then spray with coolant for the final polish. I can't think of anything I turn on a lathe that I don't use tape on. Ah, the only exception is plastic. Best, Alec On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Brian & Hank, it was the outer egdes that I left sharp. It didn't cut nicely, it left a raised mound on the edge that I removed with a facing tool. I will either look in to a specific groove tool or better equipment for forming the tool as these are taking too long :( Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/02/2017, at 1:49 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Don't need carbide for aluminum, did it cut nicely, aluminum likes high speed > > brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining > Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 12:41:39 +1300 > > Am cutting some small o-ring grooves in aluminum, 3.4mm x 2mm deep for > a 2.5mm D o-ring. ( 10th of an inch) What is the best way to remove the sharp > corners of the grove? I have read that you can spin your work in the lathe > & sand with 200 & then 400 grit sand paper. Is this right? > Have been having fun making the tool for this & don't think I have done a > good job! Am I best to buy a carbide tool specific for this job. > Thanks, Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 26 16:36:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 10:36:43 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining In-Reply-To: <1b0f01d29073$268e3b60$73aab220$@gmail.com> References: <20170224164933.71B43787@m0087798.ppops.net> <99C77C56-9A84-4E00-A22F-9B399EE14174@yahoo.com> <1b0f01d29073$268e3b60$73aab220$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <63F44A04-AE74-4110-AD7F-A9EF349E9073@yahoo.com> Hugh, thanks for the advice & offer of help. I should finish this light housing today. I have 8 lights to make & were thinking of sourcing out the work if the prototype is successful & the price is agreeable. Same with the motor housing. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 27/02/2017, at 9:58 AM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > They call it emery Tape or metalcloth here and it comes in rolls about 300mm diameter. You can get different widths but we use 40mm width and 120 or 150 grit. Paykels, Trade tools, Machinery house, Chevpac. > Now you have had a few hours on your lathe you should come out to see how to do things properly. It takes years to become a good machinist. > The first thing in your workshop should be a bench grinder to sharpen tools. As you are mainly into aluminium then you are best to use High speed steel and then you can make your own grooving tools etc. IT is too costly to get carbide for all the different things you want to make, especially if they are one-offs. > You are trying to make critical parts so you should enrol at Unitec for a machining course. Otherwise you can come out and I will give you a few tips on what is available and how best to approach it all. > Rgds, Hugh > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Saturday, 25 February 2017 4:46 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining > > Hi Alec, > not quite following you. Do you mean cutting a strip of sandpaper > & rolling it length ways & taping it? I have just been using my hands > if it seems safe enough. Did lose a finger one time but not on a lathe :) > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 25/02/2017, at 4:19 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > Get yourself some rolls of sandpaper. Not sheets but rolls, about an inch wide. When you're done turning your piece, crank up the speed a bit and put a length of tape around it. It allows you to polish it up while keeping your hands away. Go to your fine tape and then spray with coolant for the final polish. I can't think of anything I turn on a lathe that I don't use tape on. Ah, the only exception is plastic. > > > Best, > > Alec > > On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks Brian & Hank, > it was the outer egdes that I left sharp. > It didn't cut nicely, it left a raised mound on the edge that I removed with a facing tool. > I will either look in to a specific groove tool or better equipment for forming the > tool as these are taking too long :( > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 25/02/2017, at 1:49 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > Don't need carbide for aluminum, did it cut nicely, aluminum likes high speed > > > > brian > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-ring groove machining > > Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 12:41:39 +1300 > > > > Am cutting some small o-ring grooves in aluminum, 3.4mm x 2mm deep for > > a 2.5mm D o-ring. ( 10th of an inch) What is the best way to remove the sharp > > corners of the grove? I have read that you can spin your work in the lathe > > & sand with 200 & then 400 grit sand paper. Is this right? > > Have been having fun making the tool for this & don't think I have done a > > good job! Am I best to buy a carbide tool specific for this job. > > Thanks, Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 28 07:29:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 07:29:43 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pflitsch Blueglobe Gland Fitting Suppliers Message-ID: <006201d291be$59eb43d0$0dc1cb70$@indy.rr.com> My K250 project has an application for a few of these Blueglobe fittings but I am having trouble finding a vendor who will supply me without ordering way more than I need. Anyone found someone who will work with orders of less than 10? Specifically I need to seal a 10-12mm cable with a M20 thread. Preferably with stainless steel. Minimum of 15bar rating (217psi). Thanks, Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 28 08:36:51 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 13:36:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test chamber References: <330882509.433454.1488289011494.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <330882509.433454.1488289011494@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Emile,I am thinking about converting a large heavy wall vessel into a test chamber. ?I need a comparison to decide if it is worth the effort. ?What is the shell thickness of your new chamber with the bolt on door. ?Also what is the thickness of the heads?Thank youHank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 28 09:56:01 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 15:56:01 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test chamber In-Reply-To: <330882509.433454.1488289011494@mail.yahoo.com> References: <330882509.433454.1488289011494.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <330882509.433454.1488289011494@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <009f01d291d2$c73cdca0$55b695e0$@nl> Hi Hank, Which pressure? I have to abandon my large test chamber. It turned out to be too heavy for me to handle. Would be nice for you with your heavy equipment but then the transport cost.. Dia is 2200 mm, Wall is 24 mm Good for abt. 30 Bar. Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: dinsdag 28 februari 2017 14:37 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test chamber Hi Emile, I am thinking about converting a large heavy wall vessel into a test chamber. I need a comparison to decide if it is worth the effort. What is the shell thickness of your new chamber with the bolt on door. Also what is the thickness of the heads? Thank you Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 28 09:56:01 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 15:56:01 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pflitsch Blueglobe Gland Fitting Suppliers In-Reply-To: <006201d291be$59eb43d0$0dc1cb70$@indy.rr.com> References: <006201d291be$59eb43d0$0dc1cb70$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: <00a401d291d2$c76bb4d0$56431e70$@nl> Hi Steve, Have them in the drawer; wish that I included a few in the box.. Stainless makes not much sense; far more expensive and it is the lower Aisi303 grade. Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: dinsdag 28 februari 2017 13:30 Aan: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pflitsch Blueglobe Gland Fitting Suppliers My K250 project has an application for a few of these Blueglobe fittings but I am having trouble finding a vendor who will supply me without ordering way more than I need. Anyone found someone who will work with orders of less than 10? Specifically I need to seal a 10-12mm cable with a M20 thread. Preferably with stainless steel. Minimum of 15bar rating (217psi). Thanks, Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 28 10:03:00 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 08:03:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test chamber In-Reply-To: ijCfcjNI4DG7qijChcWrdT References: <330882509.433454.1488289011494.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <330882509.433454.1488289011494@mail.yahoo.com> ijCfcjNI4DG7qijChcWrdT Message-ID: <07707041-3ea6-420b-8148-f73ca90e36d2@email.android.com> I think work is skewing my perspective. When I see 30 bar, I don't think of that as a pressure chamber. I just finished collapsing a run of 9" pipe samples at 22,000 psi. Shame I can't use any of these toys for personal projects... Sean On February 28, 2017 7:56:01 AM MST, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi Hank, > > > >Which pressure? > >I have to abandon my large test chamber. It turned out to be too heavy >for me to handle. Would be nice for you with your heavy equipment but >then the transport cost.. > > > >Dia is 2200 mm, Wall is 24 mm Good for abt. 30 Bar. > > > >Br, Emile > > > >Van: Personal_Submersibles >[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via >Personal_Submersibles >Verzonden: dinsdag 28 februari 2017 14:37 >Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test chamber > > > >Hi Emile, > >I am thinking about converting a large heavy wall vessel into a test >chamber. I need a comparison to decide if it is worth the effort. >What is the shell thickness of your new chamber with the bolt on door. >Also what is the thickness of the heads? > >Thank you > >Hank > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 28 10:46:31 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 07:46:31 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pflitsch Blueglobe Gland Fitting Suppliers Message-ID: <20170228074631.71AFF5E0@m0087791.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 28 11:06:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 16:06:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test chamber In-Reply-To: <009f01d291d2$c73cdca0$55b695e0$@nl> References: <330882509.433454.1488289011494.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <330882509.433454.1488289011494@mail.yahoo.com> <009f01d291d2$c73cdca0$55b695e0$@nl> Message-ID: <775491773.527561.1488298010993@mail.yahoo.com> Emile,How much is the large chamber to buy and what is the weight?Hank On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 7:55 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv3575369635 #yiv3575369635 -- _filtered #yiv3575369635 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3575369635 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3575369635 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3575369635 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv3575369635 #yiv3575369635 p.yiv3575369635MsoNormal, #yiv3575369635 li.yiv3575369635MsoNormal, #yiv3575369635 div.yiv3575369635MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv3575369635 a:link, #yiv3575369635 span.yiv3575369635MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3575369635 a:visited, #yiv3575369635 span.yiv3575369635MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3575369635 span.yiv3575369635E-mailStijl17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv3575369635 .yiv3575369635MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv3575369635 {margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}#yiv3575369635 div.yiv3575369635WordSection1 {}#yiv3575369635 Hi Hank, ?Which pressure?I have to abandon my large test chamber. It turned out to be too heavy for me to handle. Would be nice for you with your heavy equipment but then the transport cost.. ?Dia is 2200 mm, Wall is 24 mm Good for abt. 30 Bar. ?Br, Emile ?Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: dinsdag 28 februari 2017 14:37 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test chamber ?Hi Emile,I am thinking about converting a large heavy wall vessel into a test chamber. ?I need a comparison to decide if it is worth the effort. ?What is the shell thickness of your new chamber with the bolt on door. ?Also what is the thickness of the heads?Thank youHank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 28 12:38:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 12:38:43 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pflitsch Blueglobe Gland Fitting Suppliers In-Reply-To: <20170228074631.71AFF5E0@m0087791.ppops.net> Message-ID: <20170228173854.216JN.238247.root@cdptpa-web01> Thanks Brian, I will give them a try. Steve ---- Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 28 12:38:55 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 12:38:55 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pflitsch Blueglobe Gland Fitting Suppliers In-Reply-To: <20170228074631.71AFF5E0@m0087791.ppops.net> Message-ID: <20170228173855.IZOZM.238253.root@cdptpa-web01> Thanks Brian, I will give them a try. Steve ---- Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 28 12:38:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 12:38:56 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pflitsch Blueglobe Gland Fitting Suppliers In-Reply-To: <20170228074631.71AFF5E0@m0087791.ppops.net> Message-ID: <20170228173856.6PM2S.238254.root@cdptpa-web01> Thanks Brian, I will give them a try. Steve ---- Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 28 12:42:10 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 12:42:10 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pflitsch Blueglobe Gland Fitting Suppliers In-Reply-To: <00a401d291d2$c76bb4d0$56431e70$@nl> Message-ID: <20170228174210.TLC2S.238301.root@cdptpa-web01> Emile, bad luck for me. I will contact you off line soon. Currently traveling. Thanks, Steve ---- emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Steve, > > > > Have them in the drawer; wish that I included a few in the box.. > > Stainless makes not much sense; far more expensive and it is the lower > Aisi303 grade. > > > > Br, Emile > > > > Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > Namens Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: dinsdag 28 februari 2017 13:30 > Aan: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pflitsch Blueglobe Gland Fitting Suppliers > > > > My K250 project has an application for a few of these Blueglobe fittings but > I am having trouble finding a vendor who will supply me without ordering way > more than I need. > > > > Anyone found someone who will work with orders of less than 10? > > Specifically I need to seal a 10-12mm cable with a M20 thread. Preferably > with stainless steel. Minimum of 15bar rating (217psi). > > > > Thanks, > > Steve > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 28 16:03:03 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 22:03:03 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test chamber In-Reply-To: <775491773.527561.1488298010993@mail.yahoo.com> References: <330882509.433454.1488289011494.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <330882509.433454.1488289011494@mail.yahoo.com> <009f01d291d2$c73cdca0$55b695e0$@nl> <775491773.527561.1488298010993@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00f001d29206$0d282700$27787500$@nl> Hank, The chamber can go for Euro 3000,- and you would have no problem with the 6 and 8 Ts. Main seal needs overhaul. Transport might be the show stopper. Best regards, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: dinsdag 28 februari 2017 17:07 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test chamber Emile, How much is the large chamber to buy and what is the weight? Hank On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 7:55 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi Hank, Which pressure? I have to abandon my large test chamber. It turned out to be too heavy for me to handle. Would be nice for you with your heavy equipment but then the transport cost.. Dia is 2200 mm, Wall is 24 mm Good for abt. 30 Bar. Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: dinsdag 28 februari 2017 14:37 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test chamber Hi Emile, I am thinking about converting a large heavy wall vessel into a test chamber. I need a comparison to decide if it is worth the effort. What is the shell thickness of your new chamber with the bolt on door. Also what is the thickness of the heads? Thank you Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_3354.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 13073 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_3355.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 21143 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 28 17:06:59 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 22:06:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test chamber In-Reply-To: <00f001d29206$0d282700$27787500$@nl> References: <330882509.433454.1488289011494.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <330882509.433454.1488289011494@mail.yahoo.com> <009f01d291d2$c73cdca0$55b695e0$@nl> <775491773.527561.1488298010993@mail.yahoo.com> <00f001d29206$0d282700$27787500$@nl> Message-ID: <705627421.726855.1488319619737@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Emile,Where is it (town) , and is there a machine on site that can load it onto a truck? ?Hank On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 2:02 PM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv3079287079 #yiv3079287079 -- _filtered #yiv3079287079 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3079287079 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3079287079 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3079287079 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv3079287079 #yiv3079287079 p.yiv3079287079MsoNormal, #yiv3079287079 li.yiv3079287079MsoNormal, #yiv3079287079 div.yiv3079287079MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv3079287079 a:link, #yiv3079287079 span.yiv3079287079MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3079287079 a:visited, #yiv3079287079 span.yiv3079287079MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3079287079 p.yiv3079287079MsoAcetate, #yiv3079287079 li.yiv3079287079MsoAcetate, #yiv3079287079 div.yiv3079287079MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv3079287079 p.yiv3079287079msonormal, #yiv3079287079 li.yiv3079287079msonormal, #yiv3079287079 div.yiv3079287079msonormal {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv3079287079 p.yiv3079287079msochpdefault, #yiv3079287079 li.yiv3079287079msochpdefault, #yiv3079287079 div.yiv3079287079msochpdefault {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv3079287079 span.yiv3079287079msohyperlink {}#yiv3079287079 span.yiv3079287079msohyperlinkfollowed {}#yiv3079287079 span.yiv3079287079e-mailstijl17 {}#yiv3079287079 p.yiv3079287079msonormal1, #yiv3079287079 li.yiv3079287079msonormal1, #yiv3079287079 div.yiv3079287079msonormal1 {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv3079287079 span.yiv3079287079msohyperlink1 {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3079287079 span.yiv3079287079msohyperlinkfollowed1 {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3079287079 span.yiv3079287079e-mailstijl171 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv3079287079 p.yiv3079287079msochpdefault1, #yiv3079287079 li.yiv3079287079msochpdefault1, #yiv3079287079 div.yiv3079287079msochpdefault1 {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv3079287079 span.yiv3079287079E-mailStijl27 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv3079287079 span.yiv3079287079BallontekstChar {}#yiv3079287079 .yiv3079287079MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv3079287079 {margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}#yiv3079287079 div.yiv3079287079WordSection1 {}#yiv3079287079 Hank, ?The chamber can go for Euro 3000,- and you would have no problem with ?the 6 and 8 Ts. Main seal needs overhaul.Transport might be the show stopper. ?Best regards, Emile ?Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: dinsdag 28 februari 2017 17:07 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test chamber ?Emile,How much is the large chamber to buy and what is the weight?Hank ?On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 7:55 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Hi Hank,?Which pressure?I have to abandon my large test chamber. It turned out to be too heavy for me to handle. Would be nice for you with your heavy equipment but then the transport cost..?Dia is 2200 mm, Wall is 24 mm Good for abt. 30 Bar.?Br, Emile?Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: dinsdag 28 februari 2017 14:37 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test chamber?Hi Emile,I am thinking about converting a large heavy wall vessel into a test chamber. ?I need a comparison to decide if it is worth the effort. ?What is the shell thickness of your new chamber with the bolt on door. ?Also what is the thickness of the heads?Thank youHank ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: