From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 5 09:06:17 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2017 13:06:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 new motor mounts References: <1807307571.2675548.1496667977138.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1807307571.2675548.1496667977138@mail.yahoo.com> I've attached new motor mounts for the MinnKota 101's onto the aft ballast tank framework. ?This puts them each at about a 30 degree angle from center-line which should work great for my "tractor" type control, however I realize now that if one of the motors quits I will be running around in circles. ?I have the option of adding a rudder but am not going to do that. ?I'll live with it for now and see how it goes. The motors will be cradled in the 4-inch channel and held in with SS or Alum straps. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1163.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 249206 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 5 10:03:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2017 10:03:56 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 new motor mounts In-Reply-To: <1807307571.2675548.1496667977138@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1807307571.2675548.1496667977138.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1807307571.2675548.1496667977138@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Jon, It's great to see work has resumed, and that's a nicely rugged and simple approach too. Best, Alec On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 9:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I've attached new motor mounts for the MinnKota 101's onto the aft ballast > tank framework. This puts them each at about a 30 degree angle from > center-line which should work great for my "tractor" type control, however > I realize now that if one of the motors quits I will be running around in > circles. I have the option of adding a rudder but am not going to do > that. I'll live with it for now and see how it goes. > > The motors will be cradled in the 4-inch channel and held in with SS or > Alum straps. > > Jon > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 5 11:48:28 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2017 16:48:28 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Skadoc Move. Message-ID: doh! My "pallet on wheels" idea wasn't quite up to the job...... ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: skadoc move.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 171441 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 5 15:59:04 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 07:59:04 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 new motor mounts In-Reply-To: <1807307571.2675548.1496667977138@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1807307571.2675548.1496667977138.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1807307571.2675548.1496667977138@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8DFB5314-C103-4B43-8823-3DFAAF45A10A@yahoo.com> Jon, karl Stanley has 4 thrusters at the back of Idabel. If you left room for another thruster you have an option in the future that would add redundancy & give you more power. I had wondered whether in the event of a thruster failure, if the turning circle in reverse was tighter than forward, & you could go between forward & reverse & eventually make it back. Another thought was to use a plank that may be part of the sub flooring etc, & leaver it between something at the back of the sub as a jerry rudder! Possibly weld two struts at the back to give you this option! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 6/06/2017, at 1:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I've attached new motor mounts for the MinnKota 101's onto the aft ballast tank framework. This puts them each at about a 30 degree angle from center-line which should work great for my "tractor" type control, however I realize now that if one of the motors quits I will be running around in circles. I have the option of adding a rudder but am not going to do that. I'll live with it for now and see how it goes. > > The motors will be cradled in the 4-inch channel and held in with SS or Alum straps. > > Jon > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 5 15:58:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2017 19:58:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 new motor mounts In-Reply-To: <1807307571.2675548.1496667977138@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1807307571.2675548.1496667977138.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1807307571.2675548.1496667977138@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <556222240.2742723.1496692723185@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Jon,I can't see how your going to secure the motor to the channels. ?I have a simple and cheap solution that I use for Elementary. ?Just split an?appropriate size pipe that matches the motor diameter then put slits in the channel for heavy duty ss hose clamps. weld the split pipe to the channel. ? It is easy and looks professional. ?You may have a plan already, just wanted to throw it out there.Hank On Monday, June 5, 2017 7:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I've attached new motor mounts for the MinnKota 101's onto the aft ballast tank framework. ?This puts them each at about a 30 degree angle from center-line which should work great for my "tractor" type control, however I realize now that if one of the motors quits I will be running around in circles. ?I have the option of adding a rudder but am not going to do that. ?I'll live with it for now and see how it goes. The motors will be cradled in the 4-inch channel and held in with SS or Alum straps. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 5 20:15:46 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2017 20:15:46 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 new motor mounts In-Reply-To: <1807307571.2675548.1496667977138@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1807307571.2675548.1496667977138.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1807307571.2675548.1496667977138@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <009601d2de5a$0c346930$249d3b90$@indy.rr.com> Looking good Jon! Steve From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 9:06 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 new motor mounts I've attached new motor mounts for the MinnKota 101's onto the aft ballast tank framework. This puts them each at about a 30 degree angle from center-line which should work great for my "tractor" type control, however I realize now that if one of the motors quits I will be running around in circles. I have the option of adding a rudder but am not going to do that. I'll live with it for now and see how it goes. The motors will be cradled in the 4-inch channel and held in with SS or Alum straps. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 6 00:16:28 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 04:16:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 new motor mounts In-Reply-To: <556222240.2742723.1496692723185@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1807307571.2675548.1496667977138.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1807307571.2675548.1496667977138@mail.yahoo.com> <556222240.2742723.1496692723185@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <713583257.2522749.1496722588183@mail.yahoo.com> Hank, I have a steel sphere that is 48" diameter?x .320" thick mild steel. Have you ever depth tested anything similar? Thanks, Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 new motor mounts Hi Jon,I can't see how your going to secure the motor to the channels. ?I have a simple and cheap solution that I use for Elementary. ?Just split an?appropriate size pipe that matches the motor diameter then put slits in the channel for heavy duty ss hose clamps. weld the split pipe to the channel. ? It is easy and looks professional. ?You may have a plan already, just wanted to throw it out there.Hank On Monday, June 5, 2017 7:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I've attached new motor mounts for the MinnKota 101's onto the aft ballast tank framework. ?This puts them each at about a 30 degree angle from center-line which should work great for my "tractor" type control, however I realize now that if one of the motors quits I will be running around in circles. ?I have the option of adding a rudder but am not going to do that. ?I'll live with it for now and see how it goes. The motors will be cradled in the 4-inch channel and held in with SS or Alum straps. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 6 06:16:25 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 10:16:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 new motor mounts In-Reply-To: <713583257.2522749.1496722588183@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1807307571.2675548.1496667977138.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1807307571.2675548.1496667977138@mail.yahoo.com> <556222240.2742723.1496692723185@mail.yahoo.com> <713583257.2522749.1496722588183@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1671593524.3302214.1496744185170@mail.yahoo.com> Greg,The closest I have tested to your sphere was 48 inch by .250 and 516-70. ?I was limited to 200 feet of water in Moyie Lake and I think it hit 190 with no problems. ?I would have liked to test it to 500 and am sure it would have passed. What do you have in mind for this sphere? ?this sounds exciting. ?Hank On Monday, June 5, 2017 10:20 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I have a steel sphere that is 48" diameter?x .320" thick mild steel. Have you ever depth tested anything similar? Thanks, Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 new motor mounts Hi Jon,I can't see how your going to secure the motor to the channels. ?I have a simple and cheap solution that I use for Elementary. ?Just split an?appropriate size pipe that matches the motor diameter then put slits in the channel for heavy duty ss hose clamps. weld the split pipe to the channel. ? It is easy and looks professional. ?You may have a plan already, just wanted to throw it out there.Hank On Monday, June 5, 2017 7:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I've attached new motor mounts for the MinnKota 101's onto the aft ballast tank framework. ?This puts them each at about a 30 degree angle from center-line which should work great for my "tractor" type control, however I realize now that if one of the motors quits I will be running around in circles. ?I have the option of adding a rudder but am not going to do that. ?I'll live with it for now and see how it goes. The motors will be cradled in the 4-inch channel and held in with SS or Alum straps. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 6 06:31:45 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 11:31:45 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] mail? Message-ID: did anyone receive my sub move fail picture? Not sure it got through or im just being ignored..... :) From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 6 06:52:26 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 20:52:26 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] mail? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Received down under James. Cheers, Steve On Jun 6, 2017 8:32 PM, "James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > did anyone receive my sub move fail picture? Not sure it got through > or im just being ignored..... :) > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 6 08:03:06 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 12:03:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] mail? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1987115825.3329289.1496750586725@mail.yahoo.com> James,I was not sure if you were joking, or if it really happened? ?;-)Hank On Tuesday, June 6, 2017 4:32 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: did anyone receive my sub move fail picture?? Not sure it got through or im just being ignored.....? :) _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 6 09:01:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 13:01:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 new motor mounts In-Reply-To: <556222240.2742723.1496692723185@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1807307571.2675548.1496667977138.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1807307571.2675548.1496667977138@mail.yahoo.com> <556222240.2742723.1496692723185@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <871575632.3818254.1496754116603@mail.yahoo.com> Hank, My artistic skills prevent me from providing a meaningful illustration but I will be using a split ring design. ?The outside circumference of the 101 is near identical to the outside width of the four inch channel. ?My plan is to attach two straps to the sides of the channel which will run under the motor and cradle it. ?Those straps will be split at the bottom such that I can use a bolt to tighten them and keep the motor in place. ?I may use a rubber sleeve (think tire tube) to wrap around the motor first just so there's a buffer between the motor and the channel but I don't think this is really necessary. Jon On Monday, June 5, 2017 4:04 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Jon,I can't see how your going to secure the motor to the channels. ?I have a simple and cheap solution that I use for Elementary. ?Just split an?appropriate size pipe that matches the motor diameter then put slits in the channel for heavy duty ss hose clamps. weld the split pipe to the channel. ? It is easy and looks professional. ?You may have a plan already, just wanted to throw it out there.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 6 09:13:02 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 13:13:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 new motor mounts In-Reply-To: <8DFB5314-C103-4B43-8823-3DFAAF45A10A@yahoo.com> References: <1807307571.2675548.1496667977138.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1807307571.2675548.1496667977138@mail.yahoo.com> <8DFB5314-C103-4B43-8823-3DFAAF45A10A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <170650488.3850056.1496754782565@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, I like those ideas. ?I do have two additional 101's that I was going to mount mid-ship at 45-degree angles to provide upward/downward thrust however upon reconsideration I think I'm going to just rely on buoyancy for that purpose and keep these additional motors as spares. Jon On Monday, June 5, 2017 4:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,karl Stanley has 4 thrusters at the back of Idabel.If you left room for another thruster you have an option in the future thatwould add redundancy & give you more power.I had wondered whether in the event of a thruster failure, if the turning?circle in reverse was tighter than forward, & you could go between forward& reverse & eventually make it back. Another thought was to use a plankthat may be part of the sub flooring etc, & leaver it between something at theback of the sub as a jerry rudder! Possibly weld two struts at the back togive you this option!Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 6 11:55:12 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 15:55:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 new motor mounts In-Reply-To: <1671593524.3302214.1496744185170@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1807307571.2675548.1496667977138.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1807307571.2675548.1496667977138@mail.yahoo.com> <556222240.2742723.1496692723185@mail.yahoo.com> <713583257.2522749.1496722588183@mail.yahoo.com> <1671593524.3302214.1496744185170@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1996972430.2854443.1496764512870@mail.yahoo.com> Hank, Just taking stock of what I have to work with for future subs. I'm very curious about your sub elementary. What are the specs on the hull? Thanks, Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, June 6, 2017 6:24 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 new motor mounts Greg,The closest I have tested to your sphere was 48 inch by .250 and 516-70. ?I was limited to 200 feet of water in Moyie Lake and I think it hit 190 with no problems. ?I would have liked to test it to 500 and am sure it would have passed. What do you have in mind for this sphere? ?this sounds exciting. ?Hank On Monday, June 5, 2017 10:20 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I have a steel sphere that is 48" diameter?x .320" thick mild steel. Have you ever depth tested anything similar? Thanks, Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 new motor mounts Hi Jon,I can't see how your going to secure the motor to the channels. ?I have a simple and cheap solution that I use for Elementary. ?Just split an?appropriate size pipe that matches the motor diameter then put slits in the channel for heavy duty ss hose clamps. weld the split pipe to the channel. ? It is easy and looks professional. ?You may have a plan already, just wanted to throw it out there.Hank On Monday, June 5, 2017 7:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I've attached new motor mounts for the MinnKota 101's onto the aft ballast tank framework. ?This puts them each at about a 30 degree angle from center-line which should work great for my "tractor" type control, however I realize now that if one of the motors quits I will be running around in circles. ?I have the option of adding a rudder but am not going to do that. ?I'll live with it for now and see how it goes. The motors will be cradled in the 4-inch channel and held in with SS or Alum straps. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 6 12:22:39 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 12:22:39 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Skadoc Move. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hahaha, close but no cigar! You know, a psubber might be able to get away with something like PVC rollers (assuming there were plenty of them and the surface was quite smooth and flat). ~ Douglas S. On 6/5/17, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > doh! > > My "pallet on wheels" idea wasn't quite up to the job...... > > > ? > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 6 12:24:34 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 12:24:34 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 new motor mounts In-Reply-To: <1996972430.2854443.1496764512870@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1807307571.2675548.1496667977138.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1807307571.2675548.1496667977138@mail.yahoo.com> <556222240.2742723.1496692723185@mail.yahoo.com> <713583257.2522749.1496722588183@mail.yahoo.com> <1671593524.3302214.1496744185170@mail.yahoo.com> <1996972430.2854443.1496764512870@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Really looking forward to diving on the K-600, pleased to see the work continues Jon. ~ Douglas S. On 6/6/17, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hank, > Just taking stock of what I have to work with for future subs. I'm very > curious about your sub elementary. What are the specs on the hull? > Thanks, > Greg > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Sent: Tuesday, June 6, 2017 6:24 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 new motor mounts > > Greg,The closest I have tested to your sphere was 48 inch by .250 and > 516-70. I was limited to 200 feet of water in Moyie Lake and I think it hit > 190 with no problems. I would have liked to test it to 500 and am sure it > would have passed. > What do you have in mind for this sphere? this sounds exciting. Hank > > On Monday, June 5, 2017 10:20 PM, james cottrell via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > I have a steel sphere that is 48" diameter x .320" thick mild steel. Have > you ever depth tested anything similar? > Thanks, > Greg > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 4:04 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 new motor mounts > > Hi Jon,I can't see how your going to secure the motor to the channels. I > have a simple and cheap solution that I use for Elementary. Just split > an appropriate size pipe that matches the motor diameter then put slits in > the channel for heavy duty ss hose clamps. weld the split pipe to the > channel. It is easy and looks professional. You may have a plan already, > just wanted to throw it out there.Hank > > On Monday, June 5, 2017 7:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > I've attached new motor mounts for the MinnKota 101's onto the aft ballast > tank framework. This puts them each at about a 30 degree angle from > center-line which should work great for my "tractor" type control, however I > realize now that if one of the motors quits I will be running around in > circles. I have the option of adding a rudder but am not going to do that. > I'll live with it for now and see how it goes. > The motors will be cradled in the 4-inch channel and held in with SS or Alum > straps. > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 6 17:07:16 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 21:07:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Elementary hull References: <832001616.3898242.1496783236312.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <832001616.3898242.1496783236312@mail.yahoo.com> Greg,Elementary's hull is 1 inch thick and 48 inches ID ?from 516-70 and pressed to meet ABS sphericity rules. ?The hatch land is 2 inches thick and conical. ? The sphere ?is rated for 3,000 feet and tested to 2,800 feet at Nuytco. ?I only went to 2,800 feet because that was the chamber limit.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 6 18:53:23 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 10:53:23 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] mail? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <09dc01d2df17$b6066540$22132fc0$@gmail.com> Hi James, Didn't reply to save your embarrassment. ;<) I had a similar once and now over design on wheels. IF you can get away with it not collapsing it is always a brilliant design! Chs Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 10:32 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] mail? did anyone receive my sub move fail picture? Not sure it got through or im just being ignored..... :) _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 6 18:56:30 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 15:56:30 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compressor skiff Message-ID: <20170606155630.677B5DB0@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 6 20:07:06 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 00:07:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compressor skiff In-Reply-To: <20170606155630.677B5DB0@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20170606155630.677B5DB0@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1418197465.3992357.1496794026532@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,Take lots of video for us!!!Hank On Tuesday, June 6, 2017 4:56 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,????????????? Tested my compressor skiff today, I have a gas air compressor in a little 10' skiff ,? I rigged up a small minikota type electric motor to it so I can get around.? It's will most likely just be used in my beginning testing phase .?? The only thing I'm waiting on is a couple of modifications to my motor pod and the person who is going to haul my sub down to the harbor, so it's looking like around the 15th of June.? I also managed to get some "electric boat"? liability insurance, mainly to satisfy a storage yard down near the launch ramp for future storage.? It was through the same outfit that we insure our sailboat so that could have helped.?Brian???_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 6 21:53:00 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 01:53:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Elementary hull In-Reply-To: <832001616.3898242.1496783236312@mail.yahoo.com> References: <832001616.3898242.1496783236312.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <832001616.3898242.1496783236312@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2070612689.3248705.1496800380360@mail.yahoo.com> That's awesome Hank. Great job. From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, June 6, 2017 5:14 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Elementary hull Greg,Elementary's hull is 1 inch thick and 48 inches ID ?from 516-70 and pressed to meet ABS sphericity rules. ?The hatch land is 2 inches thick and conical. ? The sphere ?is rated for 3,000 feet and tested to 2,800 feet at Nuytco. ?I only went to 2,800 feet because that was the chamber limit.Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 7 07:59:47 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 11:59:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new shop References: <1685769201.4353253.1496836787106.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1685769201.4353253.1496836787106@mail.yahoo.com> James,I assume that cart failure picture is taken in front of your new shop. ?Are you in the new shop now? ?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 7 10:06:12 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 15:06:12 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new shop In-Reply-To: <1685769201.4353253.1496836787106@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1685769201.4353253.1496836787106.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1685769201.4353253.1496836787106@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, yes, that's the new place. I am moving in as we speak. Its taken nearly a year to wait for it to be completed as there were building problems. Plus there have been legal problems as the workshop complex is near residential houses who made a fuss. All sorted now. Ive also had to build the insides myself. Toilet, office etc. Almost completed but its taken a while on my own. ive got a friend who is going to lift Skadoc in on Friday with a huge tele lifter. Most of my machines are in and I am just fitting the 3 phase. Then Jodie B goes in and I can finally start work on the new sub. regards James On 7 June 2017 at 12:59, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > James, > I assume that cart failure picture is taken in front of your new shop. Are > you in the new shop now? > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 7 13:03:39 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:03:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] useful air fitting In-Reply-To: <2070612689.3248705.1496800380360@mail.yahoo.com> References: <832001616.3898242.1496783236312.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <832001616.3898242.1496783236312@mail.yahoo.com> <2070612689.3248705.1496800380360@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1809092987.3785479.1496855019110@mail.yahoo.com> This is a fitting that connects to a 1st stage low pressure port and adapts it to 1/4" NPT. Can be used to connect a scuba cylinder outside of the hull to the valves that blow the MBTs. Low pressure air (140 psi over ambient) goes easier on the valve packing than straight high pressure systems.? http://www.leisurepro.com/p-xssmnpta/xs-scuba-male-1-4-npt-adapter?RRref=productPage Greg C From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, June 6, 2017 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Elementary hull That's awesome Hank. Great job. From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, June 6, 2017 5:14 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Elementary hull Greg,Elementary's hull is 1 inch thick and 48 inches ID ?from 516-70 and pressed to meet ABS sphericity rules. ?The hatch land is 2 inches thick and conical. ? The sphere ?is rated for 3,000 feet and tested to 2,800 feet at Nuytco. ?I only went to 2,800 feet because that was the chamber limit.Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 7 21:07:45 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 01:07:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <520581545.4966422.1496884065418@mail.yahoo.com> Just came across this pressure test picture with the Nuytco emblem on the door. ?Anyways I am looking for some syntactic foam rated for 3,000 feet. ?I don't need it until next winter. ?I just want to throw it out there because as a group we come across a lot of interesting stuff. ?I need 550 lb buoyancy and new stuff will cost me 10K Canadian. ?Scott is thinking I am a lucky bugger ?to only spend that amount ;-) ? Any leads would be appreciated.Hank On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 6:07 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0426.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 26026 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 7 21:09:59 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 01:09:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's motors References: <1606121652.4949769.1496884199203.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1606121652.4949769.1496884199203@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Jon,I would put the rubber between the motor and mount. ?I did just what you said and used inner tube rubber, it protects the paint from rubbing off and then you get an ugly rust bleed. ?;-(Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 7 22:27:44 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 21:27:44 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?A_new_adventure?= Message-ID: <20170608022744.21031.qmail@server268.com> Hey PSubbers!, I have been busy as can be with the refit of Pisces VI and I thought I would give an update. A lot of the support items are done or almost done such as the mobile shipping hanger and the mobile shop which are both 20' HiCube shipping containers designed to travel anywhere in the world. Parts are showing up left and right such as the tracking system, thrusters, comms etc. We are now ready to attach the personnel sphere back onto the frame and start slapping on parts. We have a great team from all around the world working on the project and are hopping for a completion in summer of 2018. I am leaving tomorrow for Costa Rica to meet up with the Wood Hole Oceanographic submarine DSV Alvin and the support ship Atlantis where I will be spending a month working with the crew and doing dives off Costa Rica, Panama, and the Cayman Trench. I am assisting with some updates on the submarine with fiber optic data penetrators while we are in transit from the Cayman trench back to Woods Hole MA. This is a tremendous opportunity for me to learn from the best of the best and use it to apply to Pisces VI. If you would like to get the updates and pictures of Pisces VI and my adventure working on DSV Alvin be sure to follow the Pisces VI Facebook page. www.facebook.com/piscessub Thank you, Scott Waters From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 7 23:00:09 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 03:00:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] A new adventure In-Reply-To: <20170608022744.21031.qmail@server268.com> References: <20170608022744.21031.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: <299163334.5014669.1496890809140@mail.yahoo.com> Wow! that is amazing Scott !Hank On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 8:28 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey PSubbers!, I have been busy as can be with the refit of Pisces VI and I thought I would give an update. A lot of the support items are done or almost done such as the mobile shipping hanger and the mobile shop which are both 20' HiCube shipping containers designed to travel anywhere in the world. Parts are showing up left and right such as the tracking system, thrusters, comms etc. We are now ready to attach the personnel sphere back onto the frame and start slapping on parts. We have a great team from all around the world working on the project and are hopping for a completion in summer of 2018. I am leaving tomorrow for Costa Rica to meet up with the Wood Hole Oceanographic submarine DSV Alvin and the support ship Atlantis where I will be spending a month working with the crew and doing dives off Costa Rica, Panama, and the Cayman Trench. I am assisting with some updates on the submarine with fiber optic data penetrators while we are in transit from the Cayman trench back to Woods Hole MA. This is a tremendous opportunity for me to learn from the best of the best and use it to apply to Pisces VI.? If you would like to get the updates and pictures of Pisces VI and my adventure working on DSV Alvin be sure to follow the Pisces VI Facebook page. www.facebook.com/piscessub Thank you, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 7 23:17:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:17:50 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] A new adventure In-Reply-To: <20170608022744.21031.qmail@server268.com> References: <20170608022744.21031.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: <710827AC-756C-4854-BBD4-DE880AAA9B47@yahoo.com> Wow, that's awesome Scott. Glad you will be able to add more to our submarine brain pool! I went to Alvins 50 th Birthday party in New Orleans. There was this Canadian guy there too! Alan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 117537 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPad > On 8/06/2017, at 2:27 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hey PSubbers!, > > I have been busy as can be with the refit of Pisces VI and I thought I would give an update. A lot of the support items are done or almost done such as the mobile shipping hanger and the mobile shop which are both 20' HiCube shipping containers designed to travel anywhere in the world. Parts are showing up left and right such as the tracking system, thrusters, comms etc. We are now ready to attach the personnel sphere back onto the frame and start slapping on parts. We have a great team from all around the world working on the project and are hopping for a completion in summer of 2018. > > I am leaving tomorrow for Costa Rica to meet up with the Wood Hole Oceanographic submarine DSV Alvin and the support ship Atlantis where I will be spending a month working with the crew and doing dives off Costa Rica, Panama, and the Cayman Trench. I am assisting with some updates on the submarine with fiber optic data penetrators while we are in transit from the Cayman trench back to Woods Hole MA. This is a tremendous opportunity for me to learn from the best of the best and use it to apply to Pisces VI. > > If you would like to get the updates and pictures of Pisces VI and my adventure working on DSV Alvin be sure to follow the Pisces VI Facebook page. www.facebook.com/piscessub > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 7 23:20:58 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 20:20:58 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test Message-ID: <20170607202058.67762583@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 8 07:24:07 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 11:24:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test In-Reply-To: <20170607202058.67762583@m0117457.ppops.net> References: <20170607202058.67762583@m0117457.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1362872411.5233926.1496921047618@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,Yes you can buy macro spheres alone, but I am not sure how well they survive with constant movement. ? ?If you don't want to use hard wood chunks then use golf balls. ?Hank On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 9:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? Is it possible to just only buy the Micro spheres??? I was thinking of putting just the micro spheres in my motor pod to reduce the volume of oil I have to use.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 01:07:45 +0000 (UTC) Just came across this pressure test picture with the Nuytco emblem on the door. ?Anyways I am looking for some syntactic foam rated for 3,000 feet. ?I don't need it until next winter. ?I just want to throw it out there because as a group we come across a lot of interesting stuff. ?I need 550 lb buoyancy and new stuff will cost me 10K Canadian. ?Scott is thinking I am a lucky bugger ?to only spend that amount ;-) ? Any leads would be appreciated.Hank On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 6:07 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 8 10:03:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 14:03:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Polyethylene Grating References: <1917434667.6213003.1496930623538.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1917434667.6213003.1496930623538@mail.yahoo.com> Found this online and anticipating using it on the K-600. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 28259.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 91234 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 8 10:12:04 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 07:12:04 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test Message-ID: <20170608071204.6779821B@m0117566.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 8 10:13:16 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 07:13:16 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Polyethylene Grating Message-ID: <20170608071316.67798226@m0117566.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 8 14:45:29 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 18:45:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test In-Reply-To: <20170608071204.6779821B@m0117566.ppops.net> References: <20170608071204.6779821B@m0117566.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1399847730.5566781.1496947529313@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,What do you?consider?tremendous pressure? ?Test one to be sure, but you can probably get used range balls for cheap.Hank On Thursday, June 8, 2017 8:12 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,??? Will the golf balls take tremendous amount of pressure??? Have you used them before??? I suppose they would be resistant to wd40, hmmm? ...??? Sounds like a winner !??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 11:24:07 +0000 (UTC) Brian,Yes you can buy macro spheres alone, but I am not sure how well they survive with constant movement. ? ?If you don't want to use hard wood chunks then use golf balls. ?Hank On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 9:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? Is it possible to just only buy the Micro spheres??? I was thinking of putting just the micro spheres in my motor pod to reduce the volume of oil I have to use.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 01:07:45 +0000 (UTC) Just came across this pressure test picture with the Nuytco emblem on the door. ?Anyways I am looking for some syntactic foam rated for 3,000 feet. ?I don't need it until next winter. ?I just want to throw it out there because as a group we come across a lot of interesting stuff. ?I need 550 lb buoyancy and new stuff will cost me 10K Canadian. ?Scott is thinking I am a lucky bugger ?to only spend that amount ;-) ? Any leads would be appreciated.Hank On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 6:07 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 8 16:55:09 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 08:55:09 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Polyethylene Grating In-Reply-To: <1917434667.6213003.1496930623538@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1917434667.6213003.1496930623538.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1917434667.6213003.1496930623538@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7DBB57FF-AECA-44C4-9FC8-2DF4D76FBF7F@yahoo.com> Jon, G.L. & ABS don't like plastics unless they are self extinguishing & halogen free. However it would be probably difficult to set it alight even if you tried. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 9/06/2017, at 2:03 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Found this online and anticipating using it on the K-600. > > > <28259.jpg> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 8 16:58:47 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 08:58:47 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test In-Reply-To: <20170608071204.6779821B@m0117566.ppops.net> References: <20170608071204.6779821B@m0117566.ppops.net> Message-ID: <76D19C37-1425-4CFF-87AF-5176271863D4@yahoo.com> Brian, I would't put anything in there apart from your oil. Any plastics like beads & golfballs etc could grind away or melt. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 9/06/2017, at 2:12 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, Will the golf balls take tremendous amount of pressure? Have you used them before? I suppose they would be resistant to wd40, hmmm ... Sounds like a winner ! > > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test > Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 11:24:07 +0000 (UTC) > > > Brian, > Yes you can buy macro spheres alone, but I am not sure how well they survive with constant movement. If you don't want to use hard wood chunks then use golf balls. > Hank > > > On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 9:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, Is it possible to just only buy the Micro spheres? I was thinking of putting just the micro spheres in my motor pod to reduce the volume of oil I have to use. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test > Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 01:07:45 +0000 (UTC) > > Just came across this pressure test picture with the Nuytco emblem on the door. Anyways I am looking for some syntactic foam rated for 3,000 feet. I don't need it until next winter. I just want to throw it out there because as a group we come across a lot of interesting stuff. I need 550 lb buoyancy and new stuff will cost me 10K Canadian. Scott is thinking I am a lucky bugger to only spend that amount ;-) Any leads would be appreciated. > Hank > > > On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 6:07 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 8 18:10:36 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:10:36 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test Message-ID: <20170608151036.84C1F33E@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 8 18:11:42 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:11:42 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Polyethylene Grating Message-ID: <23589711.15636.1496959902589@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 8 18:36:41 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 18:36:41 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Polyethylene Grating In-Reply-To: <7DBB57FF-AECA-44C4-9FC8-2DF4D76FBF7F@yahoo.com> References: <1917434667.6213003.1496930623538.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1917434667.6213003.1496930623538@mail.yahoo.com> <7DBB57FF-AECA-44C4-9FC8-2DF4D76FBF7F@yahoo.com> Message-ID: I suspect Jon probably meant it for the outside. I'm using something fiberglass grating, which seems to be very similar, and it's a treat to be able to walk around on a flat deck instead of just having a curved surface. Best, Alec On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 4:55 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Jon, > G.L. & ABS don't like plastics unless they are self extinguishing & halogen > free. However it would be probably difficult to set it alight even if you > tried. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 9/06/2017, at 2:03 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Found this online and anticipating using it on the K-600. > > > <28259.jpg> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 8 18:37:12 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 10:37:12 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test In-Reply-To: <20170608151036.84C1F33E@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20170608151036.84C1F33E@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, I wouldn't bet on golf balls being resistant to WD40. I would be pretty sure there would be some deterioration in time. The main thing would be that you kept any dissolved contaminants away from the brushes. Know about golf balls, grew up next to a golf course! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 9/06/2017, at 10:10 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, Just normal operating pressure, Golf balls - that's a frick'n genius idea ! Alan, inside my motor pod the only moving part is the prop shaft so I don't see any problem with the golf balls getting chewed up. I can get 600 golf balls for around $150 !! > > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test > Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 18:45:29 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, > What do you consider tremendous pressure? Test one to be sure, but you can probably get used range balls for cheap. > Hank > > > On Thursday, June 8, 2017 8:12 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, Will the golf balls take tremendous amount of pressure? Have you used them before? I suppose they would be resistant to wd40, hmmm ... Sounds like a winner ! > > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test > Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 11:24:07 +0000 (UTC) > > > Brian, > Yes you can buy macro spheres alone, but I am not sure how well they survive with constant movement. If you don't want to use hard wood chunks then use golf balls. > Hank > > > On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 9:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, Is it possible to just only buy the Micro spheres? I was thinking of putting just the micro spheres in my motor pod to reduce the volume of oil I have to use. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test > Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 01:07:45 +0000 (UTC) > > Just came across this pressure test picture with the Nuytco emblem on the door. Anyways I am looking for some syntactic foam rated for 3,000 feet. I don't need it until next winter. I just want to throw it out there because as a group we come across a lot of interesting stuff. I need 550 lb buoyancy and new stuff will cost me 10K Canadian. Scott is thinking I am a lucky bugger to only spend that amount ;-) Any leads would be appreciated. > Hank > > > On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 6:07 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 8 19:17:17 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 23:17:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test In-Reply-To: <20170608151036.84C1F33E@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20170608151036.84C1F33E@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <2076977676.5777035.1496963837852@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,Alan has a point, you might want to put a fixed plastic sleeve over the shaft if the balls can come in contact with a spinning shat. ?Wait, isn't your shaft spinning inside the axel housing? ?if so should work like a charm. ? Alan just hates WD40 lol.?Hank On Thursday, June 8, 2017 4:11 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,?? Just normal operating pressure,? Golf balls? -? that's a?frick'n genius idea !???? Alan,?? inside my motor pod the only moving part is the prop shaft so I don't see any problem with the golf balls getting chewed up.? I can get 600 golf balls for around $150? !!??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 18:45:29 +0000 (UTC) Brian,What do you?consider?tremendous pressure? ?Test one to be sure, but you can probably get used range balls for cheap.Hank On Thursday, June 8, 2017 8:12 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,??? Will the golf balls take tremendous amount of pressure??? Have you used them before??? I suppose they would be resistant to wd40, hmmm? ...??? Sounds like a winner !??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 11:24:07 +0000 (UTC) Brian,Yes you can buy macro spheres alone, but I am not sure how well they survive with constant movement. ? ?If you don't want to use hard wood chunks then use golf balls. ?Hank On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 9:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? Is it possible to just only buy the Micro spheres??? I was thinking of putting just the micro spheres in my motor pod to reduce the volume of oil I have to use.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 01:07:45 +0000 (UTC) Just came across this pressure test picture with the Nuytco emblem on the door. ?Anyways I am looking for some syntactic foam rated for 3,000 feet. ?I don't need it until next winter. ?I just want to throw it out there because as a group we come across a lot of interesting stuff. ?I need 550 lb buoyancy and new stuff will cost me 10K Canadian. ?Scott is thinking I am a lucky bugger ?to only spend that amount ;-) ? Any leads would be appreciated.Hank On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 6:07 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 8 19:32:31 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 11:32:31 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test In-Reply-To: <2076977676.5777035.1496963837852@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20170608151036.84C1F33E@m0117567.ppops.net> <2076977676.5777035.1496963837852@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <524DA4E9-C763-4E4D-8FA6-68468A0006A9@yahoo.com> Hank, no, love the stuff, I spray padlocks with it all the time! I put a whole lot of different plastics in a jar of WD40 one time, some deteriorated instantaneously & others over a short time. Brian could soak a few golf balls in it first; however not all golf balls are the same! Also they might last a month but not a year & they will be sitting in it permanently. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 9/06/2017, at 11:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Brian, > Alan has a point, you might want to put a fixed plastic sleeve over the shaft if the balls can come in contact with a spinning shat. Wait, isn't your shaft spinning inside the axel housing? if so should work like a charm. Alan just hates WD40 lol. > Hank > > > On Thursday, June 8, 2017 4:11 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, Just normal operating pressure, Golf balls - that's a frick'n genius idea ! Alan, inside my motor pod the only moving part is the prop shaft so I don't see any problem with the golf balls getting chewed up. I can get 600 golf balls for around $150 !! > > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test > Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 18:45:29 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, > What do you consider tremendous pressure? Test one to be sure, but you can probably get used range balls for cheap. > Hank > > > On Thursday, June 8, 2017 8:12 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, Will the golf balls take tremendous amount of pressure? Have you used them before? I suppose they would be resistant to wd40, hmmm ... Sounds like a winner ! > > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test > Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 11:24:07 +0000 (UTC) > > > Brian, > Yes you can buy macro spheres alone, but I am not sure how well they survive with constant movement. If you don't want to use hard wood chunks then use golf balls. > Hank > > > On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 9:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, Is it possible to just only buy the Micro spheres? I was thinking of putting just the micro spheres in my motor pod to reduce the volume of oil I have to use. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test > Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 01:07:45 +0000 (UTC) > > Just came across this pressure test picture with the Nuytco emblem on the door. Anyways I am looking for some syntactic foam rated for 3,000 feet. I don't need it until next winter. I just want to throw it out there because as a group we come across a lot of interesting stuff. I need 550 lb buoyancy and new stuff will cost me 10K Canadian. Scott is thinking I am a lucky bugger to only spend that amount ;-) Any leads would be appreciated. > Hank > > > On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 6:07 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 8 19:57:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 23:57:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test In-Reply-To: <524DA4E9-C763-4E4D-8FA6-68468A0006A9@yahoo.com> References: <20170608151036.84C1F33E@m0117567.ppops.net> <2076977676.5777035.1496963837852@mail.yahoo.com> <524DA4E9-C763-4E4D-8FA6-68468A0006A9@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2053799861.5793293.1496966270829@mail.yahoo.com> A test is a good idea.Hank On Thursday, June 8, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,no, love the stuff, I spray padlocks with it all the time!I put a whole lot of different plastics in a jar of WD40 one time,some deteriorated instantaneously & others over a short time.Brian could soak a few golf balls in it first; however not all golf ballsare the same! Also they might last a month but not a year & theywill be sitting in it permanently.?Alan Sent from my iPad On 9/06/2017, at 11:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian,Alan has a point, you might want to put a fixed plastic sleeve over the shaft if the balls can come in contact with a spinning shat. ?Wait, isn't your shaft spinning inside the axel housing? ?if so should work like a charm. ? Alan just hates WD40 lol.?Hank On Thursday, June 8, 2017 4:11 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,?? Just normal operating pressure,? Golf balls? -? that's a?frick'n genius idea !???? Alan,?? inside my motor pod the only moving part is the prop shaft so I don't see any problem with the golf balls getting chewed up.? I can get 600 golf balls for around $150? !!??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 18:45:29 +0000 (UTC) Brian,What do you?consider?tremendous pressure? ?Test one to be sure, but you can probably get used range balls for cheap.Hank On Thursday, June 8, 2017 8:12 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,??? Will the golf balls take tremendous amount of pressure??? Have you used them before??? I suppose they would be resistant to wd40, hmmm? ...??? Sounds like a winner !??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 11:24:07 +0000 (UTC) Brian,Yes you can buy macro spheres alone, but I am not sure how well they survive with constant movement. ? ?If you don't want to use hard wood chunks then use golf balls. ?Hank On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 9:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? Is it possible to just only buy the Micro spheres??? I was thinking of putting just the micro spheres in my motor pod to reduce the volume of oil I have to use.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: pressure test Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 01:07:45 +0000 (UTC) Just came across this pressure test picture with the Nuytco emblem on the door. ?Anyways I am looking for some syntactic foam rated for 3,000 feet. ?I don't need it until next winter. ?I just want to throw it out there because as a group we come across a lot of interesting stuff. ?I need 550 lb buoyancy and new stuff will cost me 10K Canadian. ?Scott is thinking I am a lucky bugger ?to only spend that amount ;-) ? Any leads would be appreciated.Hank On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 6:07 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 9 15:42:31 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 19:42:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Polyethylene Grating In-Reply-To: <7DBB57FF-AECA-44C4-9FC8-2DF4D76FBF7F@yahoo.com> References: <1917434667.6213003.1496930623538.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1917434667.6213003.1496930623538@mail.yahoo.com> <7DBB57FF-AECA-44C4-9FC8-2DF4D76FBF7F@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <432592873.7588113.1497037351095@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, purpose is outside decking not interior. ?It's the cheapest product I have found that is structural enough to walk on. ?Fiberglass and aluminum would be fine but tend to be pretty costly. ?Steel...well, I don't feel like dealing with the maintenance of steel whether galvanized or not. Jon On Thursday, June 8, 2017 4:57 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,G.L. & ABS don't like plastics unless they are self extinguishing & halogenfree. However it would be probably difficult to set it alight even if you tried.Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 9 16:02:48 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 13:02:48 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Polyethylene Grating Message-ID: <20170609130248.6776A660@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 9 16:53:26 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 20:53:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Polyethylene Grating References: <1391656944.7683520.1497041606798.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1391656944.7683520.1497041606798@mail.yahoo.com> What about glass beads? The larger ones 1" in diameter or marbles. -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 6/9/17, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Polyethylene Grating To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Friday, June 9, 2017, 3:02 PM Jon,??? Where did you find that ??? I could use something like that.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Polyethylene Grating Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 19:42:31 +0000 (UTC) Alan, purpose is outside decking not interior. ?It's the cheapest product I have found that is structural enough to walk on. ?Fiberglass and aluminum would be fine but tend to be pretty costly. ?Steel...well, I don't feel like dealing with the maintenance of steel whether galvanized or not. Jon On Thursday, June 8, 2017 4:57 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,G.L. & ABS don't like plastics unless they are self extinguishing & halogenfree. However it would be probably difficult to set it alight even if you tried.Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 9 18:46:42 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 15:46:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Polyethylene Grating Message-ID: <20170609154642.6776AFF4@m0117457.ppops.net> oooo , I like that Idea ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Polyethylene Grating Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 20:53:26 +0000 (UTC) What about glass beads? The larger ones 1" in diameter or marbles. -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 6/9/17, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Polyethylene Grating To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Friday, June 9, 2017, 3:02 PM Jon,??? Where did you find that ??? I could use something like that.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Polyethylene Grating Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 19:42:31 +0000 (UTC) Alan, purpose is outside decking not interior. ?It's the cheapest product I have found that is structural enough to walk on. ?Fiberglass and aluminum would be fine but tend to be pretty costly. ?Steel...well, I don't feel like dealing with the maintenance of steel whether galvanized or not. Jon On Thursday, June 8, 2017 4:57 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,G.L. & ABS don't like plastics unless they are self extinguishing & halogenfree. However it would be probably difficult to set it alight even if you tried.Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 10 11:42:36 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 15:42:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Polyethylene Grating In-Reply-To: <20170609130248.6776A660@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20170609130248.6776A660@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: <740546006.8161974.1497109356125@mail.yahoo.com> Search for justrite 28259 Grate. ?There are a number of suppliers but it looks like ZORO is the best overall since they have free shipping for over $50. Some suppliers shipping cost exceeds the cost of the grate. Jon On Friday, June 9, 2017 4:04 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,??? Where did you find that ??? I could use something like that.?Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 10 13:38:52 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:38:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. References: <1672903775.904415.1497116332920.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1672903775.904415.1497116332920@mail.yahoo.com> I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. ?My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. ?After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. ?This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. ?My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 10 13:59:01 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 12:59:01 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <1672903775.904415.1497116332920@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1672903775.904415.1497116332920.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1672903775.904415.1497116332920@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Not a good idea to use the macro and micro spheres that are normally used for syntactic foam without a binder such as polyester or epoxy resin that has been catalized. These little spheres are light and strong when subjected to uniform exterior loading which happen if you cast them in a container with a catalized resin. Without the resin you would get a lot of breakage. See http://www.psubs.org/design/PDF/SyntacticFoam.pdf for an overview of syntactic foam. Cliff On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 12:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. My idea is to fill a > neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. After the > container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally > friendly oil. This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less > complicated and cheaper. My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up > against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the > container. Are these spheres delicate? > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 10 14:02:14 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 18:02:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: References: <1672903775.904415.1497116332920.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1672903775.904415.1497116332920@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1375673426.6921521.1497117734603@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks' Cliff,I was not sure how tough they are,?pity though. ?Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 11:59 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Not a good idea to use the macro and micro spheres that are normally used for syntactic foam without a binder such as polyester or epoxy resin that has been catalized. These little spheres are light and strong when subjected to uniform exterior loading which happen if you cast them in a container with a catalized resin.? Without the resin you would get a lot of breakage.? See http://www.psubs.org/design/PDF/SyntacticFoam.pdf? ?for an overview of syntactic foam. Cliff On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 12:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have an idea, but not sure if it will work.? My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres.? After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil.? This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 10 14:10:16 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 18:10:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <1672903775.904415.1497116332920@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1672903775.904415.1497116332920.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1672903775.904415.1497116332920@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1276273333.6270780.1497118216866@mail.yahoo.com> Hank, I like your idea. What if you were to use an environmentally friendly oil that is a solid at room temps? In other words heat it to?liquid state , pour it in the spheres and let it solidify? Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 1:44 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. ?My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. ?After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. ?This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. ?My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 10 15:39:42 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 19:39:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <1276273333.6270780.1497118216866@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1672903775.904415.1497116332920.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1672903775.904415.1497116332920@mail.yahoo.com> <1276273333.6270780.1497118216866@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2052927734.6286393.1497123582526@mail.yahoo.com> Hank, The density of paraffin wax is about 10% less than water and liquefies at about 155 F. ?You can buy it in bulk online (10 lbs cost about 20$). Greg From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 2:48 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hank, I like your idea. What if you were to use an environmentally friendly oil that is a solid at room temps? In other words heat it to?liquid state , pour it in the spheres and let it solidify? Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 1:44 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. ?My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. ?After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. ?This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. ?My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 10 17:04:11 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 21:04:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <2052927734.6286393.1497123582526@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1672903775.904415.1497116332920.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1672903775.904415.1497116332920@mail.yahoo.com> <1276273333.6270780.1497118216866@mail.yahoo.com> <2052927734.6286393.1497123582526@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1065654652.7006164.1497128651999@mail.yahoo.com> Greg,That is a pretty interesting idea. ?I would have to do some math, because the spheres gain a lot of strength when reinforced with resin. ? Very interesting, I would not have thought of that.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 1:40 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, The density of paraffin wax is about 10% less than water and liquefies at about 155 F. ?You can buy it in bulk online (10 lbs cost about 20$). Greg From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 2:48 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hank, I like your idea. What if you were to use an environmentally friendly oil that is a solid at room temps? In other words heat it to?liquid state , pour it in the spheres and let it solidify? Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 1:44 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. ?My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. ?After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. ?This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. ?My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 10 17:08:30 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 21:08:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 new motor mounts References: <2095673464.8328542.1497128910148.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2095673464.8328542.1497128910148@mail.yahoo.com> Mounted an MK101 to the new motor mount. ?Follow the link to see photos. http://www.subdb.info/cgi/database/showvessel/albums/index.cgi?A=1320788990&B=1497128559&C=&D=Motor%20Mounts Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 10 18:02:26 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 18:02:26 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 new motor mounts In-Reply-To: <2095673464.8328542.1497128910148@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2095673464.8328542.1497128910148.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2095673464.8328542.1497128910148@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the photos Jon. Looks simple and strong... my kind of mounting! ~ Douglas S. On 6/10/17, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Mounted an MK101 to the new motor mount. Follow the link to see photos. > http://www.subdb.info/cgi/database/showvessel/albums/index.cgi?A=1320788990&B=1497128559&C=&D=Motor%20Mounts > Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 10 18:18:13 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 10:18:13 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <1065654652.7006164.1497128651999@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1672903775.904415.1497116332920.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1672903775.904415.1497116332920@mail.yahoo.com> <1276273333.6270780.1497118216866@mail.yahoo.com> <2052927734.6286393.1497123582526@mail.yahoo.com> <1065654652.7006164.1497128651999@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I saw a number of syntactic foam samples at the Underwater Intervention Convention. The microspheres on the samples for deep diving were tiny. The deeper you go, the smaller the spheres. That idea might have merit depending on how deep you were going, as it would be easier to work with the larger spheres. However if you spent the extra money on resin rather than oil you would have a rigid product. On Alvin I believe the foam was in sections that were pressure tested individually. I think you can get an imploding chain reaction, hence the multiple sections so you don't put all your eggs in one basket. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/06/2017, at 9:04 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Greg, > That is a pretty interesting idea. I would have to do some math, because the spheres gain a lot of strength when reinforced with resin. Very interesting, I would not have thought of that. > Hank > > > On Saturday, June 10, 2017 1:40 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > > The density of paraffin wax is about 10% less than water and liquefies at about 155 F. You can buy it in bulk online (10 lbs cost about 20$). > > Greg > > > From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 2:48 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > > Hank, > > I like your idea. What if you were to use an environmentally friendly oil that is a solid at room temps? In other words heat it to liquid state , pour it in the spheres and let it solidify? > > Greg > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 1:44 PM > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > > I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. Are these spheres delicate? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 10 18:27:01 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 10:27:01 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 new motor mounts In-Reply-To: <2095673464.8328542.1497128910148@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2095673464.8328542.1497128910148.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2095673464.8328542.1497128910148@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: That looks pretty solid Jon. I would go with the previous suggestions of some sort of thin gasket between the strap & bracket, & the thruster. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/06/2017, at 9:08 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Mounted an MK101 to the new motor mount. Follow the link to see photos. > > http://www.subdb.info/cgi/database/showvessel/albums/index.cgi?A=1320788990&B=1497128559&C=&D=Motor%20Mounts > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 10 18:38:01 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 22:38:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: References: <1672903775.904415.1497116332920.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1672903775.904415.1497116332920@mail.yahoo.com> <1276273333.6270780.1497118216866@mail.yahoo.com> <2052927734.6286393.1497123582526@mail.yahoo.com> <1065654652.7006164.1497128651999@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2134045062.1013084.1497134281523@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Luckily I have lots of time to work this out. ?After looking at the cost for home made foam, it is not bad at all. ?I will of coarse keep looking at other ideas, like the wax, that would have never?occurred to me.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 4:18 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I saw a number of syntactic foam samples at the Underwater InterventionConvention. The microspheres on the samples for deep diving were tiny.The deeper you go, the smaller the spheres. That idea might have meritdepending on how deep you were going, as it would be easier to work withthe larger spheres. However if you spent the extra money on resin rather thanoil you would have a rigid product.On Alvin I believe the foam was in sections that were pressure tested individually.I think you can get an imploding chain reaction, hence the multiple sections soyou don't put all your eggs in one basket.Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/06/2017, at 9:04 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,That is a pretty interesting idea. ?I would have to do some math, because the spheres gain a lot of strength when reinforced with resin. ? Very interesting, I would not have thought of that.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 1:40 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, The density of paraffin wax is about 10% less than water and liquefies at about 155 F. ?You can buy it in bulk online (10 lbs cost about 20$). Greg From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 2:48 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hank, I like your idea. What if you were to use an environmentally friendly oil that is a solid at room temps? In other words heat it to?liquid state , pour it in the spheres and let it solidify? Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 1:44 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. ?My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. ?After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. ?This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. ?My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 10 20:04:35 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:04:35 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Message-ID: <20170610170435.677543AB@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 10 20:00:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 00:00:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <2134045062.1013084.1497134281523@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1672903775.904415.1497116332920.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1672903775.904415.1497116332920@mail.yahoo.com> <1276273333.6270780.1497118216866@mail.yahoo.com> <2052927734.6286393.1497123582526@mail.yahoo.com> <1065654652.7006164.1497128651999@mail.yahoo.com> <2134045062.1013084.1497134281523@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <997544806.6409289.1497139243955@mail.yahoo.com> Hank, Do you have a small chamber that would be able to test wax filled with microspheres? Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Alan,Luckily I have lots of time to work this out. ?After looking at the cost for home made foam, it is not bad at all. ?I will of coarse keep looking at other ideas, like the wax, that would have never?occurred to me.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 4:18 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I saw a number of syntactic foam samples at the Underwater InterventionConvention. The microspheres on the samples for deep diving were tiny.The deeper you go, the smaller the spheres. That idea might have meritdepending on how deep you were going, as it would be easier to work withthe larger spheres. However if you spent the extra money on resin rather thanoil you would have a rigid product.On Alvin I believe the foam was in sections that were pressure tested individually.I think you can get an imploding chain reaction, hence the multiple sections soyou don't put all your eggs in one basket.Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/06/2017, at 9:04 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,That is a pretty interesting idea. ?I would have to do some math, because the spheres gain a lot of strength when reinforced with resin. ? Very interesting, I would not have thought of that.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 1:40 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, The density of paraffin wax is about 10% less than water and liquefies at about 155 F. ?You can buy it in bulk online (10 lbs cost about 20$). Greg From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 2:48 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hank, I like your idea. What if you were to use an environmentally friendly oil that is a solid at room temps? In other words heat it to?liquid state , pour it in the spheres and let it solidify? Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 1:44 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. ?My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. ?After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. ?This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. ?My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 10 20:12:14 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 00:12:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <2134045062.1013084.1497134281523@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1672903775.904415.1497116332920.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1672903775.904415.1497116332920@mail.yahoo.com> <1276273333.6270780.1497118216866@mail.yahoo.com> <2052927734.6286393.1497123582526@mail.yahoo.com> <1065654652.7006164.1497128651999@mail.yahoo.com> <2134045062.1013084.1497134281523@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <712653007.6435630.1497139934894@mail.yahoo.com> Hank, Using a phase changing material might alleviate one of the challenges that arise when making buoyancy foam with two part resin- the heat created limits the amount that can be poured at one time. A large section can sometimes require many pours. Too much heat and the resin will boil and be ruined. If the wax works at depth, I don't see any reason that very thick ( and cheap!) sections couldn't be done at one time. In theory the wax could be melted and poured in a vacuum chamber. Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Alan,Luckily I have lots of time to work this out. ?After looking at the cost for home made foam, it is not bad at all. ?I will of coarse keep looking at other ideas, like the wax, that would have never?occurred to me.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 4:18 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I saw a number of syntactic foam samples at the Underwater InterventionConvention. The microspheres on the samples for deep diving were tiny.The deeper you go, the smaller the spheres. That idea might have meritdepending on how deep you were going, as it would be easier to work withthe larger spheres. However if you spent the extra money on resin rather thanoil you would have a rigid product.On Alvin I believe the foam was in sections that were pressure tested individually.I think you can get an imploding chain reaction, hence the multiple sections soyou don't put all your eggs in one basket.Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/06/2017, at 9:04 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,That is a pretty interesting idea. ?I would have to do some math, because the spheres gain a lot of strength when reinforced with resin. ? Very interesting, I would not have thought of that.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 1:40 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, The density of paraffin wax is about 10% less than water and liquefies at about 155 F. ?You can buy it in bulk online (10 lbs cost about 20$). Greg From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 2:48 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hank, I like your idea. What if you were to use an environmentally friendly oil that is a solid at room temps? In other words heat it to?liquid state , pour it in the spheres and let it solidify? Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 1:44 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. ?My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. ?After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. ?This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. ?My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 10 20:27:59 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:27:59 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Message-ID: <20170610172759.677540D0@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 10 20:34:03 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:34:03 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Message-ID: <20170610173403.677540E7@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 10 20:41:15 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 00:41:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <20170610173403.677540E7@m0117457.ppops.net> References: <20170610173403.677540E7@m0117457.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1605765721.6421684.1497141675842@mail.yahoo.com> distribution and temp control would not be a problem. From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. The spheres would no doubt be buoyant in the liquid wax.? It would be challenging getting an even distribution of spheres.?? If the chamber was not heated the wax would solidify quickly.?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:27:59 -0700 Wax actually crossed my mine earlier , since I deal with beeswax all the time.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 00:12:14 +0000 (UTC) Hank, Using a phase changing material might alleviate one of the challenges that arise when making buoyancy foam with two part resin- the heat created limits the amount that can be poured at one time. A large section can sometimes require many pours. Too much heat and the resin will boil and be ruined. If the wax works at depth, I don't see any reason that very thick ( and cheap!) sections couldn't be done at one time. In theory the wax could be melted and poured in a vacuum chamber. Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Alan,Luckily I have lots of time to work this out. ?After looking at the cost for home made foam, it is not bad at all. ?I will of coarse keep looking at other ideas, like the wax, that would have never?occurred to me.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 4:18 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I saw a number of syntactic foam samples at the Underwater InterventionConvention. The microspheres on the samples for deep diving were tiny.The deeper you go, the smaller the spheres. That idea might have meritdepending on how deep you were going, as it would be easier to work withthe larger spheres. However if you spent the extra money on resin rather thanoil you would have a rigid product.On Alvin I believe the foam was in sections that were pressure tested individually.I think you can get an imploding chain reaction, hence the multiple sections soyou don't put all your eggs in one basket.Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/06/2017, at 9:04 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,That is a pretty interesting idea. ?I would have to do some math, because the spheres gain a lot of strength when reinforced with resin. ? Very interesting, I would not have thought of that.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 1:40 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, The density of paraffin wax is about 10% less than water and liquefies at about 155 F. ?You can buy it in bulk online (10 lbs cost about 20$). Greg From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 2:48 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hank, I like your idea. What if you were to use an environmentally friendly oil that is a solid at room temps? In other words heat it to?liquid state , pour it in the spheres and let it solidify? Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 1:44 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. ?My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. ?After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. ?This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. ?My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 10 21:33:08 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 13:33:08 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <712653007.6435630.1497139934894@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1672903775.904415.1497116332920.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1672903775.904415.1497116332920@mail.yahoo.com> <1276273333.6270780.1497118216866@mail.yahoo.com> <2052927734.6286393.1497123582526@mail.yahoo.com> <1065654652.7006164.1497128651999@mail.yahoo.com> <2134045062.1013084.1497134281523@mail.yahoo.com> <712653007.6435630.1497139934894@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9CC074EF-1E73-484D-B5CE-B4F28B093D2E@yahoo.com> Greg, you are right about the need for the vacuum chamber with the wax pour. There would be bubbles left that could compress within the wax matrix; whereas with resin being so strong bubbles wouldn't be a problem. This would limit your wax / micro-sphere sections to the size of your vacuum chamber. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/06/2017, at 12:12 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > > Using a phase changing material might alleviate one of the challenges that arise when making buoyancy foam with two part resin- the heat created limits the amount that can be poured at one time. A large section can sometimes require many pours. Too much heat and the resin will boil and be ruined. > > If the wax works at depth, I don't see any reason that very thick ( and cheap!) sections couldn't be done at one time. In theory the wax could be melted and poured in a vacuum chamber. > > Greg > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 6:44 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > > Alan, > Luckily I have lots of time to work this out. After looking at the cost for home made foam, it is not bad at all. I will of coarse keep looking at other ideas, like the wax, that would have never occurred to me. > Hank > > > On Saturday, June 10, 2017 4:18 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > I saw a number of syntactic foam samples at the Underwater Intervention > Convention. The microspheres on the samples for deep diving were tiny. > The deeper you go, the smaller the spheres. That idea might have merit > depending on how deep you were going, as it would be easier to work with > the larger spheres. However if you spent the extra money on resin rather than > oil you would have a rigid product. > On Alvin I believe the foam was in sections that were pressure tested individually. > I think you can get an imploding chain reaction, hence the multiple sections so > you don't put all your eggs in one basket. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 11/06/2017, at 9:04 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Greg, >> That is a pretty interesting idea. I would have to do some math, because the spheres gain a lot of strength when reinforced with resin. Very interesting, I would not have thought of that. >> Hank >> >> >> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 1:40 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> >> The density of paraffin wax is about 10% less than water and liquefies at about 155 F. You can buy it in bulk online (10 lbs cost about 20$). >> >> Greg >> >> >> From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 2:48 PM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. >> >> Hank, >> >> I like your idea. What if you were to use an environmentally friendly oil that is a solid at room temps? In other words heat it to liquid state , pour it in the spheres and let it solidify? >> >> Greg >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 1:44 PM >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. >> >> I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. Are these spheres delicate? >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> Virus-free. www.avast.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 10 23:02:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 22:02:49 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Message-ID: <201706110302.v5B32MVY018021@whoweb.com> Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. ?My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. ?After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. ?This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. ?My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 10 23:25:20 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 03:25:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <201706110302.v5B32MVY018021@whoweb.com> References: <201706110302.v5B32MVY018021@whoweb.com> Message-ID: <1318551593.6485419.1497151520952@mail.yahoo.com> Paraffin has several interesting properties- it is sometimes used in deep diving gliders that move up and down in the water column do to a very large (10% to 15%) volume change as it goes from solid to liquid with heat and cooling. On the other hand- in semi solid form- paraffin is non compressible (like water) and actually turns into a true solid at about 400 bar. It has very low density due to the large number of hydrogen atoms mixed in with a mostly carbon long chain structure. >From a fabrication standpoint, I could make buoyancy blocks using micro-spheres in paraffin much easier than doing the same task with epoxy. Maybe I'll whip some up and have it tested. Greg C From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 11:04 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. ?My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. ?After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. ?This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. ?My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 11 08:15:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 12:15:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <1318551593.6485419.1497151520952@mail.yahoo.com> References: <201706110302.v5B32MVY018021@whoweb.com> <1318551593.6485419.1497151520952@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <619247234.7201904.1497183349571@mail.yahoo.com> Greg,Yes I have a small test chamber to try it out. ?If you want to make a sample, ?I will gladly test it. ?I would make some myself but I just don't have any time. ?My wife is taking Gamma in a parade for her bank, (don't let your savings sink) haha. ?If it rains that will be the only time gamma gets wet till next spring ;-(Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:25 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Paraffin has several interesting properties- it is sometimes used in deep diving gliders that move up and down in the water column do to a very large (10% to 15%) volume change as it goes from solid to liquid with heat and cooling. On the other hand- in semi solid form- paraffin is non compressible (like water) and actually turns into a true solid at about 400 bar. It has very low density due to the large number of hydrogen atoms mixed in with a mostly carbon long chain structure. >From a fabrication standpoint, I could make buoyancy blocks using micro-spheres in paraffin much easier than doing the same task with epoxy. Maybe I'll whip some up and have it tested. Greg C From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 11:04 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. ?My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. ?After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. ?This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. ?My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 11 08:17:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 12:17:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <201706110302.v5B32MVY018021@whoweb.com> References: <201706110302.v5B32MVY018021@whoweb.com> Message-ID: <1136853766.349592.1497183476526@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. ?My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. ?After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. ?This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. ?My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 11 10:24:36 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 14:24:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <1136853766.349592.1497183476526@mail.yahoo.com> References: <201706110302.v5B32MVY018021@whoweb.com> <1136853766.349592.1497183476526@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <339677088.7307276.1497191076952@mail.yahoo.com> Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving? ?Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin. ?I have no idea what the cost difference would be. ?Maybe the cost is still much better. ?When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part. ?Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres. ?In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance. ?That implies that the true strength comes from the resin. ?Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also. ?Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. ?My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. ?After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. ?This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. ?My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 11 12:12:41 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 16:12:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <339677088.7307276.1497191076952@mail.yahoo.com> References: <201706110302.v5B32MVY018021@whoweb.com> <1136853766.349592.1497183476526@mail.yahoo.com> <339677088.7307276.1497191076952@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1221910343.6730507.1497197561322@mail.yahoo.com> Hank, I know very little about syntactic foam (my sub is positive). I assumed that the strength was in the microspheres and not the resin but apparently that's wrong. Anyway, I'd like to work with you on a project sometime. I'll do some homework on buoyancy foam and get back to you. The only thing I know at this point is that the density of the wax is .87 and the density of the epoxy is about 1.25. Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2017 10:31 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving? ?Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin. ?I have no idea what the cost difference would be. ?Maybe the cost is still much better. ?When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part. ?Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres. ?In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance. ?That implies that the true strength comes from the resin. ?Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also. ?Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. ?My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. ?After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. ?This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. ?My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 11 12:19:14 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 10:19:14 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: K3sRdeVV1NSROK3sSd42q7 References: <201706110302.v5B32MVY018021@whoweb.com> <1136853766.349592.1497183476526@mail.yahoo.com> K3sRdeVV1NSROK3sSd42q7 Message-ID: <017b7a6b-b918-46ce-ae2e-abfda7d95932@email.android.com> Composite material performance can be approximated by weight averaging the mechanical properties of each component in proportion to its volume fraction within the composite. In general, it is advantageous to minimize the matrix (resin) volume in a composite, whether fiber or micro/macro sphere reinforced. This is why multiple sizes of spheres are recommended - to preferentially fill the interstitial spaces between the largest spheres with additional spheres and not simply matrix material. The spheres provide the required density reduction, but are brittle. The resin adds ductility / toughness to the composite, to carry mechanical loads applied to the composite part, and distribute the load across the sphere surfaces. Packed spheres with no matrix material would still withstand the hydrostatic pressure loads, but any additional mechanical loading would point-load the spheres at their points of contact. The requirement for glass spheres is really only derived from the strength and density requirements of the application. Using an air entrained resin exclusively may be sufficiently strong, but you may find it difficult to achieve a low enough density, both because of the maximum possible bubble size you can manufacture, and because of the fact that consistently sized air bubbles will never pack as densely as using various different sizes of e.g. glass spheres. Sean On June 11, 2017 8:24:36 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than >standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax >will probably work, but is there a saving? ?Using wax?means you have to >use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided >by the resin. ?I have no idea what the cost difference would be. ?Maybe >the cost is still much better. ?When I look at Cliff's report, the >resin is not the expensive part. ?Perhaps the direction should be, to >look for a replacement for the spheres. ?In Cliff's report it shows the >resin triples the sphere's performance. ?That implies that the true >strength comes from the resin. ?Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam >granule resin is worth looking at also. ?Maybe it is a simple as air >entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank > >On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank > >On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, >Hola from Costa Rica! >Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they >are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam >on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? >I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell >you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 >Thanks,Scott Waters > > >Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >-------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via >Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 >12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic >foam. >I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. ?My idea is to fill a >neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. ?After the >container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally >friendly oil. ?This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less >complicated and cheaper. ?My concern is, how well will the spheres >stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres >and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? >?Hank_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 11 14:03:58 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 18:03:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <339677088.7307276.1497191076952@mail.yahoo.com> References: <201706110302.v5B32MVY018021@whoweb.com> <1136853766.349592.1497183476526@mail.yahoo.com> <339677088.7307276.1497191076952@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <473275854.7391240.1497204238662@mail.yahoo.com> Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam. ?I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable. ?I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving? ?Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin. ?I have no idea what the cost difference would be. ?Maybe the cost is still much better. ?When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part. ?Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres. ?In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance. ?That implies that the true strength comes from the resin. ?Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also. ?Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. ?My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. ?After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. ?This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. ?My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 11 17:09:17 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 14:09:17 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Message-ID: <20170611140917.67757809@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 11 19:11:33 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 18:11:33 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Message-ID: <201706112311.v5BNBJup024483@whoweb.com> Brian, I can look into it when I get back in the states. I will be at sea for the next month or so. Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/11/17 4:09 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Scott,?? I would like to buy that foam !?? I wonder what the shipping cost will run??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 22:02:49 -0500 Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. ?My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. ?After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. ?This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. ?My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 11 19:32:27 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 11:32:27 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <473275854.7391240.1497204238662@mail.yahoo.com> References: <201706110302.v5B32MVY018021@whoweb.com> <1136853766.349592.1497183476526@mail.yahoo.com> <339677088.7307276.1497191076952@mail.yahoo.com> <473275854.7391240.1497204238662@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, have you looked at using gasoline? More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam, but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as you could use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanks at your destination. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Greg, > that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam. I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable. I estimate I can build a Titanic capable sub for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ;-( > Hank > > > On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Greg, > There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving? Using wax means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin. I have no idea what the cost difference would be. Maybe the cost is still much better. When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part. Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres. In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance. That implies that the true strength comes from the resin. Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also. Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin? > Fun to think about anyways. > Hank > > > On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Scott, > Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet. > Hank > > > On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > > Hola from Costa Rica! > > Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want. > > I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > > I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. Are these spheres delicate? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 11 20:05:02 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 00:05:02 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pan/Tilt camera Message-ID: Has anyone experimented with mounting a pan/tilt video camera on a high point of their sub? Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 11 20:28:23 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 00:28:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: References: <201706110302.v5B32MVY018021@whoweb.com> <1136853766.349592.1497183476526@mail.yahoo.com> <339677088.7307276.1497191076952@mail.yahoo.com> <473275854.7391240.1497204238662@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1868815476.7556454.1497227303959@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective. ?There are of coarse some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns. ?I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard. ?Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous. ?Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles. ?When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark. ?Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\ccHank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam. ?I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable. ?I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving? ?Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin. ?I have no idea what the cost difference would be. ?Maybe the cost is still much better. ?When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part. ?Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres. ?In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance. ?That implies that the true strength comes from the resin. ?Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also. ?Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. ?My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. ?After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. ?This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. ?My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 01:34:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 22:34:43 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Polyethylene Grating Message-ID: <20170611223443.67757319@m0117460.ppops.net> Pete, I really like your idea of the glass marbles ! That will be a really great way to reduce the overall amount of oil I will have to put in my motor pod. I think also it may, along with the oil, act as a large heat sink for the motor. I have a one inch fitting that I could use to fill the entire pod with marbles. The spaces between the marbles I think will allow for some circulation of the oil. I had to have some machine work done on the motor pod but now it is pretty much dialed in. It will be easy to make another one, since I've learned what not to do ! I was worried about welding the SS pipe fitting that houses the main prop bearing to the end cap part of the motor pod since stainless tends to bend all kinds of weird ways when welded. So I had this elaborate ( read dumb) concentric pipe arrangement with o rings , but in the end I decided to weld it in place . Sure enough the pipe did shrink and I couldn't get the bearing in there. But I was easy to just hone it out to the right dimension to fit it in there. Now I just need to build my second Warp engine ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Polyethylene Grating Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 20:53:26 +0000 (UTC) What about glass beads? The larger ones 1" in diameter or marbles. -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 6/9/17, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Polyethylene Grating To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Friday, June 9, 2017, 3:02 PM Jon,??? Where did you find that ??? I could use something like that.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Polyethylene Grating Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 19:42:31 +0000 (UTC) Alan, purpose is outside decking not interior. ?It's the cheapest product I have found that is structural enough to walk on. ?Fiberglass and aluminum would be fine but tend to be pretty costly. ?Steel...well, I don't feel like dealing with the maintenance of steel whether galvanized or not. Jon On Thursday, June 8, 2017 4:57 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,G.L. & ABS don't like plastics unless they are self extinguishing & halogenfree. However it would be probably difficult to set it alight even if you tried.Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 01:35:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 17:35:50 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <1868815476.7556454.1497227303959@mail.yahoo.com> References: <201706110302.v5B32MVY018021@whoweb.com> <1136853766.349592.1497183476526@mail.yahoo.com> <339677088.7307276.1497191076952@mail.yahoo.com> <473275854.7391240.1497204238662@mail.yahoo.com> <1868815476.7556454.1497227303959@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank, inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement. https://www.bdoutdoors.com/atl-fuel-bladder-extra/ Alan Sent from my iPad > On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > Yes I have, it is very simple and effective. There are of coarse some hazardous logistical problems not to mention environmental concerns. I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard. Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous. Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles. When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark. Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\cc > Hank > > > On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > have you looked at using gasoline? > More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam, > but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as you > could use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanks > at your destination. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Greg, >> that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam. I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable. I estimate I can build a Titanic capable sub for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ;-( >> Hank >> >> >> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Greg, >> There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving? Using wax means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin. I have no idea what the cost difference would be. Maybe the cost is still much better. When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part. Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres. In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance. That implies that the true strength comes from the resin. Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also. Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin? >> Fun to think about anyways. >> Hank >> >> >> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi Scott, >> Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet. >> Hank >> >> >> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> >> Hola from Costa Rica! >> >> Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want. >> >> I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 >> >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> >> >> >> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. >> >> I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. Are these spheres delicate? >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 01:47:48 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 17:47:48 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pan/Tilt camera In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1C66AE83-9DDA-403F-9F23-5EB737D574F9@yahoo.com> Brian, I am not sure whether you mean inside or outside the hull. I made a pan & tilt out of a car side mirror, for my ambient sub. It was air compensated; it didn't have a wide range of movement. There are a lot of remotely operated pan & tilt mechanisms on places like "Hobby King", under " camera gimbals" https://hobbyking.com/en_us/fpv-aerial-video-telemetry-1/camera-gimbals.html What were you thinking of? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 12/06/2017, at 12:05 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Has anyone experimented with mounting a pan/tilt video camera on a high point of their sub? > > > > Get Outlook for Android > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 05:12:03 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 10:12:03 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Skadoc Moved at last Message-ID: Finally got it in with forklift... ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: skadoc in.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 69931 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 07:32:32 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 11:32:32 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pan/Tilt camera Message-ID: Outside the hull. The K350 has limited visibility and musing on something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/172719661912 Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 07:42:17 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 11:42:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: References: <201706110302.v5B32MVY018021@whoweb.com> <1136853766.349592.1497183476526@mail.yahoo.com> <339677088.7307276.1497191076952@mail.yahoo.com> <473275854.7391240.1497204238662@mail.yahoo.com> <1868815476.7556454.1497227303959@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <508132346.7799907.1497267737140@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Those are nice, I can see other uses for them. ?If I use gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement.??https://www.bdoutdoors.com/atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective. ?There are of coarse some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns. ?I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard. ?Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous. ?Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles. ?When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark. ?Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\ccHank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam. ?I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable. ?I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving? ?Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin. ?I have no idea what the cost difference would be. ?Maybe the cost is still much better. ?When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part. ?Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres. ?In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance. ?That implies that the true strength comes from the resin. ?Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also. ?Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. ?My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. ?After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. ?This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. ?My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 07:56:48 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 07:56:48 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pan/Tilt camera Message-ID: I purchased a cheap chinese-made PTZ security camera with weather enclosure on eBay for home security purposes. Something like this. It was in a sealed aluminum housing with a thick glass globe and rubber gasket. I suppose you could try air compensating one for a periscope/third person sub view. I was watching HURL dive on the japanese midget subs sunk off Hawaii on the Pearl Harbor anniversary. They had a 2 ROV setup with a small, nimble ROV getting closeups and a larger mother ROV hovering above the wreck, providing umbilical power, and a view of the entire wreck to better navigate the small ROV. -- -River J. Dolfi 412-997-2526 rdolfi7 at gmail.com rwd5301 at psu.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 10:23:18 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 10:23:18 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Skadoc Moved at last In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nice! On 6/12/17, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Finally got it in with forklift... > > > ? > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 13:18:17 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 17:18:17 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pan/Tilt camera Message-ID: Thought about that too: a small ROV launched from behind the coning tower off a landing platform. DIY or kit, they're getting pretty cheap. Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 13:32:26 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 19:32:26 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pan/Tilt camera In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1497288746812.3767157.121e4a583c47293e9787dcb5ddb6638f7ce13530@spica.telekom.de> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I95q2SDhuk -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pan/Tilt camera Datum: 2017-06-12T02:07:28+0200 Von: "Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles" An: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" Has anyone experimented with mounting a pan/tilt video camera on a high point of their sub? Get Outlook for Android ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 16:00:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 08:00:56 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pan/Tilt camera In-Reply-To: <1497288746812.3767157.121e4a583c47293e9787dcb5ddb6638f7ce13530@spica.telekom.de> References: <1497288746812.3767157.121e4a583c47293e9787dcb5ddb6638f7ce13530@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <529E9532-A8B3-4558-A52A-EDA62616BBD7@yahoo.com> That looks impressive Carsten. Brian, I was imagining something like that, with the pan & tilt & camera inside the enclosure. I have mentioned this before, but on a normal video camera there is an infra-red remote. You can remove the transmitting LED from the remote controller, add 10 ft of wire to it & attach it so it is eye balling the receiver on the camera. This gives you remote control of the camera from inside the hull. That fish finder has 60ft of wire; I have seen them with 100ft. Wonder what there maximum depth is. There would no doubt be a ton of information on this on the ROV sites. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 13/06/2017, at 5:32 AM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I95q2SDhuk > > > > > -----Original-Nachricht----- > Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pan/Tilt camera > Datum: 2017-06-12T02:07:28+0200 > Von: "Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles" > An: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" > > > > Has anyone experimented with mounting a pan/tilt video camera on a high point of their sub? > > > Get Outlook for Android > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 17:00:42 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 21:00:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] definition References: <1841717934.1395660.1497301242640.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1841717934.1395660.1497301242640@mail.yahoo.com> Hi all,What does Isostatic crush strength mean? ?I am researching microspheres, and assume it means unsupported crush strength.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 17:06:27 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 21:06:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] definition In-Reply-To: <1841717934.1395660.1497301242640@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1841717934.1395660.1497301242640.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1841717934.1395660.1497301242640@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1206759410.241094.1497301587807@mail.yahoo.com> sorry IsostalicHank On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:05 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all,What does Isostatic crush strength mean? ?I am researching microspheres, and assume it means unsupported crush strength.Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 17:42:40 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 09:42:40 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <508132346.7799907.1497267737140@mail.yahoo.com> References: <201706110302.v5B32MVY018021@whoweb.com> <1136853766.349592.1497183476526@mail.yahoo.com> <339677088.7307276.1497191076952@mail.yahoo.com> <473275854.7391240.1497204238662@mail.yahoo.com> <1868815476.7556454.1497227303959@mail.yahoo.com> <508132346.7799907.1497267737140@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, are you sure that's right! That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton) That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litre of gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation. Metric system is much easier for calculating these things. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > Those are nice, I can see other uses for them. If I use gasoline, I would need about 1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. I was mistaken about the liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. > > > On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank, > inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement. > https://www.bdoutdoors.com/atl-fuel-bladder-extra/ > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, >> Yes I have, it is very simple and effective. There are of coarse some hazardous logistical problems not to mention environmental concerns. I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard. Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous. Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles. When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark. Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\cc >> Hank >> >> >> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> have you looked at using gasoline? >> More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam, >> but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as you >> could use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanks >> at your destination. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Greg, >>> that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam. I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable. I estimate I can build a Titanic capable sub for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ;-( >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Greg, >>> There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving? Using wax means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin. I have no idea what the cost difference would be. Maybe the cost is still much better. When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part. Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres. In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance. That implies that the true strength comes from the resin. Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also. Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin? >>> Fun to think about anyways. >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi Scott, >>> Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet. >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hank, >>> >>> Hola from Costa Rica! >>> >>> Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want. >>> >>> I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Scott Waters >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>> >>> -------- Original message -------- >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. >>> >>> I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. Are these spheres delicate? >>> Hank >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 17:50:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 21:50:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: References: <201706110302.v5B32MVY018021@whoweb.com> <1136853766.349592.1497183476526@mail.yahoo.com> <339677088.7307276.1497191076952@mail.yahoo.com> <473275854.7391240.1497204238662@mail.yahoo.com> <1868815476.7556454.1497227303959@mail.yahoo.com> <508132346.7799907.1497267737140@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <804395461.2383978.1497304249201@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas.Hank On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,are you sure that's right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litreof gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these things.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those are nice, I can see other uses for them. ?If I use gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement.??https://www.bdoutdoors.com/atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective. ?There are of coarse some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns. ?I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard. ?Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous. ?Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles. ?When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark. ?Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\ccHank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam. ?I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable. ?I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving? ?Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin. ?I have no idea what the cost difference would be. ?Maybe the cost is still much better. ?When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part. ?Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres. ?In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance. ?That implies that the true strength comes from the resin. ?Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also. ?Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. ?My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. ?After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. ?This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. ?My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 18:14:10 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 10:14:10 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <804395461.2383978.1497304249201@mail.yahoo.com> References: <201706110302.v5B32MVY018021@whoweb.com> <1136853766.349592.1497183476526@mail.yahoo.com> <339677088.7307276.1497191076952@mail.yahoo.com> <473275854.7391240.1497204238662@mail.yahoo.com> <1868815476.7556454.1497227303959@mail.yahoo.com> <508132346.7799907.1497267737140@mail.yahoo.com> <804395461.2383978.1497304249201@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184 gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough). Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I need 550 lbs flotation and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas. > Hank > > > On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > are you sure that's right! > That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton) > That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litre > of gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation. > Metric system is much easier for calculating these things. > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, >> Those are nice, I can see other uses for them. If I use gasoline, I would need about 1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. I was mistaken about the liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. >> >> >> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank, >> inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement. >> https://www.bdoutdoors.com/atl-fuel-bladder-extra/ >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> Yes I have, it is very simple and effective. There are of coarse some hazardous logistical problems not to mention environmental concerns. I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard. Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous. Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles. When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark. Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\cc >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hank, >>> have you looked at using gasoline? >>> More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam, >>> but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as you >>> could use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanks >>> at your destination. >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Greg, >>>> that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam. I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable. I estimate I can build a Titanic capable sub for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ;-( >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Greg, >>>> There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving? Using wax means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin. I have no idea what the cost difference would be. Maybe the cost is still much better. When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part. Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres. In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance. That implies that the true strength comes from the resin. Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also. Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin? >>>> Fun to think about anyways. >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Scott, >>>> Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet. >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> >>>> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hank, >>>> >>>> Hola from Costa Rica! >>>> >>>> Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want. >>>> >>>> I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Scott Waters >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>>> >>>> -------- Original message -------- >>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. >>>> >>>> I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. Are these spheres delicate? >>>> Hank >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 18:30:54 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 22:30:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: References: <201706110302.v5B32MVY018021@whoweb.com> <1136853766.349592.1497183476526@mail.yahoo.com> <339677088.7307276.1497191076952@mail.yahoo.com> <473275854.7391240.1497204238662@mail.yahoo.com> <1868815476.7556454.1497227303959@mail.yahoo.com> <508132346.7799907.1497267737140@mail.yahoo.com> <804395461.2383978.1497304249201@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <100148688.247596.1497306654794@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,yes I am red in the face, better put a new battery in my calculator lolHank On Monday, June 12, 2017 4:14 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas.Hank On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,are you sure that's right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litreof gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these things.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those are nice, I can see other uses for them. ?If I use gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement.??https://www.bdoutdoors.com/atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective. ?There are of coarse some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns. ?I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard. ?Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous. ?Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles. ?When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark. ?Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\ccHank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam. ?I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable. ?I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving? ?Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin. ?I have no idea what the cost difference would be. ?Maybe the cost is still much better. ?When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part. ?Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres. ?In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance. ?That implies that the true strength comes from the resin. ?Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also. ?Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. ?My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. ?After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. ?This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. ?My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 18:48:01 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 22:48:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <100148688.247596.1497306654794@mail.yahoo.com> References: <201706110302.v5B32MVY018021@whoweb.com> <1136853766.349592.1497183476526@mail.yahoo.com> <339677088.7307276.1497191076952@mail.yahoo.com> <473275854.7391240.1497204238662@mail.yahoo.com> <1868815476.7556454.1497227303959@mail.yahoo.com> <508132346.7799907.1497267737140@mail.yahoo.com> <804395461.2383978.1497304249201@mail.yahoo.com> <100148688.247596.1497306654794@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1486424931.8379091.1497307681030@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,That is an interesting idea and super simple. ?I am just really uneasy with all the hazards.Hank On Monday, June 12, 2017 4:35 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,yes I am red in the face, better put a new battery in my calculator lolHank On Monday, June 12, 2017 4:14 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas.Hank On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,are you sure that's right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litreof gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these things.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those are nice, I can see other uses for them. ?If I use gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement.??https://www.bdoutdoors.com/atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective. ?There are of coarse some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns. ?I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard. ?Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous. ?Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles. ?When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark. ?Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\ccHank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam. ?I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable. ?I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving? ?Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin. ?I have no idea what the cost difference would be. ?Maybe the cost is still much better. ?When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part. ?Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres. ?In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance. ?That implies that the true strength comes from the resin. ?Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also. ?Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. ?My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. ?After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. ?This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. ?My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 18:52:44 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 10:52:44 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <100148688.247596.1497306654794@mail.yahoo.com> References: <201706110302.v5B32MVY018021@whoweb.com> <1136853766.349592.1497183476526@mail.yahoo.com> <339677088.7307276.1497191076952@mail.yahoo.com> <473275854.7391240.1497204238662@mail.yahoo.com> <1868815476.7556454.1497227303959@mail.yahoo.com> <508132346.7799907.1497267737140@mail.yahoo.com> <804395461.2383978.1497304249201@mail.yahoo.com> <100148688.247596.1497306654794@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4321B180-443A-43B0-BF31-E4B7AF62F069@yahoo.com> Hank, the good news is it's a 10 times better option than you first thought! Problem might be finding a number of cheap collapsible petrol containers. You would want your drop weight to cover the loss of floatation of any one container in case it was split! Otherwise you could be a dead duck at 3000ft. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 13/06/2017, at 10:30 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > yes I am red in the face, better put a new battery in my calculator lol > Hank > > > On Monday, June 12, 2017 4:14 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184 > gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough). > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, >> I need 550 lbs flotation and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas. >> Hank >> >> >> On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> are you sure that's right! >> That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton) >> That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litre >> of gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation. >> Metric system is much easier for calculating these things. >> Cheers Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> Those are nice, I can see other uses for them. If I use gasoline, I would need about 1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. I was mistaken about the liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank, >>> inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement. >>> https://www.bdoutdoors.com/atl-fuel-bladder-extra/ >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Alan, >>>> Yes I have, it is very simple and effective. There are of coarse some hazardous logistical problems not to mention environmental concerns. I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard. Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous. Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles. When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark. Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\cc >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hank, >>>> have you looked at using gasoline? >>>> More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam, >>>> but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as you >>>> could use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanks >>>> at your destination. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Greg, >>>>> that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam. I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable. I estimate I can build a Titanic capable sub for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ;-( >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Greg, >>>>> There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving? Using wax means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin. I have no idea what the cost difference would be. Maybe the cost is still much better. When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part. Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres. In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance. That implies that the true strength comes from the resin. Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also. Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin? >>>>> Fun to think about anyways. >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Scott, >>>>> Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet. >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hank, >>>>> >>>>> Hola from Costa Rica! >>>>> >>>>> Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want. >>>>> >>>>> I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Scott Waters >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>>>> >>>>> -------- Original message -------- >>>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. >>>>> >>>>> I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. Are these spheres delicate? >>>>> Hank >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 19:32:26 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 11:32:26 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <1486424931.8379091.1497307681030@mail.yahoo.com> References: <201706110302.v5B32MVY018021@whoweb.com> <1136853766.349592.1497183476526@mail.yahoo.com> <339677088.7307276.1497191076952@mail.yahoo.com> <473275854.7391240.1497204238662@mail.yahoo.com> <1868815476.7556454.1497227303959@mail.yahoo.com> <508132346.7799907.1497267737140@mail.yahoo.com> <804395461.2383978.1497304249201@mail.yahoo.com> <100148688.247596.1497306654794@mail.yahoo.com> <1486424931.8379091.1497307681030@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6C552050-9D2E-4043-8178-738706B5D940@yahoo.com> Hank, just had a quick look at Busby's Manned Submersibles, & there were 6 subs that used gasoline, but they were all diving to depths over 13,500 ft. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 13/06/2017, at 10:48 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > That is an interesting idea and super simple. I am just really uneasy with all the hazards. > Hank > > > On Monday, June 12, 2017 4:35 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > yes I am red in the face, better put a new battery in my calculator lol > Hank > > > On Monday, June 12, 2017 4:14 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184 > gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough). > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, >> I need 550 lbs flotation and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas. >> Hank >> >> >> On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> are you sure that's right! >> That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton) >> That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litre >> of gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation. >> Metric system is much easier for calculating these things. >> Cheers Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> Those are nice, I can see other uses for them. If I use gasoline, I would need about 1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. I was mistaken about the liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank, >>> inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement. >>> https://www.bdoutdoors.com/atl-fuel-bladder-extra/ >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Alan, >>>> Yes I have, it is very simple and effective. There are of coarse some hazardous logistical problems not to mention environmental concerns. I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard. Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous. Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles. When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark. Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\cc >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hank, >>>> have you looked at using gasoline? >>>> More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam, >>>> but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as you >>>> could use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanks >>>> at your destination. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Greg, >>>>> that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam. I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable. I estimate I can build a Titanic capable sub for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ;-( >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Greg, >>>>> There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving? Using wax means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin. I have no idea what the cost difference would be. Maybe the cost is still much better. When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part. Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres. In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance. That implies that the true strength comes from the resin. Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also. Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin? >>>>> Fun to think about anyways. >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Scott, >>>>> Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet. >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hank, >>>>> >>>>> Hola from Costa Rica! >>>>> >>>>> Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want. >>>>> >>>>> I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Scott Waters >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>>>> >>>>> -------- Original message -------- >>>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. >>>>> >>>>> I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. Are these spheres delicate? >>>>> Hank >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 19:32:26 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 11:32:26 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <1486424931.8379091.1497307681030@mail.yahoo.com> References: <201706110302.v5B32MVY018021@whoweb.com> <1136853766.349592.1497183476526@mail.yahoo.com> <339677088.7307276.1497191076952@mail.yahoo.com> <473275854.7391240.1497204238662@mail.yahoo.com> <1868815476.7556454.1497227303959@mail.yahoo.com> <508132346.7799907.1497267737140@mail.yahoo.com> <804395461.2383978.1497304249201@mail.yahoo.com> <100148688.247596.1497306654794@mail.yahoo.com> <1486424931.8379091.1497307681030@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6C552050-9D2E-4043-8178-738706B5D940@yahoo.com> Hank, just had a quick look at Busby's Manned Submersibles, & there were 6 subs that used gasoline, but they were all diving to depths over 13,500 ft. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 13/06/2017, at 10:48 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > That is an interesting idea and super simple. I am just really uneasy with all the hazards. > Hank > > > On Monday, June 12, 2017 4:35 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > yes I am red in the face, better put a new battery in my calculator lol > Hank > > > On Monday, June 12, 2017 4:14 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184 > gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough). > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, >> I need 550 lbs flotation and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas. >> Hank >> >> >> On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> are you sure that's right! >> That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton) >> That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litre >> of gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation. >> Metric system is much easier for calculating these things. >> Cheers Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> Those are nice, I can see other uses for them. If I use gasoline, I would need about 1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. I was mistaken about the liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank, >>> inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement. >>> https://www.bdoutdoors.com/atl-fuel-bladder-extra/ >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Alan, >>>> Yes I have, it is very simple and effective. There are of coarse some hazardous logistical problems not to mention environmental concerns. I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard. Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous. Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles. When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark. Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\cc >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hank, >>>> have you looked at using gasoline? >>>> More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam, >>>> but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as you >>>> could use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanks >>>> at your destination. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Greg, >>>>> that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam. I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable. I estimate I can build a Titanic capable sub for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ;-( >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Greg, >>>>> There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving? Using wax means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin. I have no idea what the cost difference would be. Maybe the cost is still much better. When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part. Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres. In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance. That implies that the true strength comes from the resin. Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also. Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin? >>>>> Fun to think about anyways. >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Scott, >>>>> Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet. >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hank, >>>>> >>>>> Hola from Costa Rica! >>>>> >>>>> Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want. >>>>> >>>>> I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Scott Waters >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>>>> >>>>> -------- Original message -------- >>>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. >>>>> >>>>> I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. Are these spheres delicate? >>>>> Hank >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 19:50:40 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 19:50:40 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <6C552050-9D2E-4043-8178-738706B5D940@yahoo.com> References: <201706110302.v5B32MVY018021@whoweb.com> <1136853766.349592.1497183476526@mail.yahoo.com> <339677088.7307276.1497191076952@mail.yahoo.com> <473275854.7391240.1497204238662@mail.yahoo.com> <1868815476.7556454.1497227303959@mail.yahoo.com> <508132346.7799907.1497267737140@mail.yahoo.com> <804395461.2383978.1497304249201@mail.yahoo.com> <100148688.247596.1497306654794@mail.yahoo.com> <1486424931.8379091.1497307681030@mail.yahoo.com> <6C552050-9D2E-4043-8178-738706B5D940@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4362dcd2-c754-b070-b41c-4e6299de3d2e@ohiohills.com> On 6/12/2017 7:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > just had a quick look at Busby's Manned Submersibles, & there > were 6 subs that used gasoline, but they were all diving to depths > over 13,500 ft. Weren't they operational at a time when gasoline was 25 cents/gallon? Oh, for the good old days! Mike --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 20:11:42 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 00:11:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <4362dcd2-c754-b070-b41c-4e6299de3d2e@ohiohills.com> References: <201706110302.v5B32MVY018021@whoweb.com> <1136853766.349592.1497183476526@mail.yahoo.com> <339677088.7307276.1497191076952@mail.yahoo.com> <473275854.7391240.1497204238662@mail.yahoo.com> <1868815476.7556454.1497227303959@mail.yahoo.com> <508132346.7799907.1497267737140@mail.yahoo.com> <804395461.2383978.1497304249201@mail.yahoo.com> <100148688.247596.1497306654794@mail.yahoo.com> <1486424931.8379091.1497307681030@mail.yahoo.com> <6C552050-9D2E-4043-8178-738706B5D940@yahoo.com> <4362dcd2-c754-b070-b41c-4e6299de3d2e@ohiohills.com> Message-ID: <543978116.2460453.1497312702062@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Yes the Tirest made the deepest dive on earth as a giant gas tank with a sphere under it. ?It is doable for sure but special precautions need to be taken. ?I would need a special storage space away from any grinding etc.?Hank On Monday, June 12, 2017 5:51 PM, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: On 6/12/2017 7:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: just had a quick look at Busby's Manned Submersibles, & there were 6 subs that used gasoline, but they were all diving to depths over 13,500 ft. Weren't they operational at a time when gasoline was 25 cents/gallon??? Oh, for the good old days! Mike | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 20:36:41 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 18:36:41 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] definition In-Reply-To: KWWtd0dXMVo4PKWWvdYZWL References: <1841717934.1395660.1497301242640.ref@mail.yahoo.com> KWWtd0dXMVo4PKWWvdYZWL Message-ID: That would be the crush strength in consideration of uniformly applied external pressure (i.e. hydrostatic pressure due to immersion depth) only, and does not consider stress concentration effects from non-uniform loading, as is the case when any surface points of contact exist, or if any mechanical load (tension, compression, torque or bending) is applied either directly or through a matrix material to which the sphere is bonded. Sean On June 12, 2017 3:00:42 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi all,What does Isostatic crush strength mean? ?I am researching >microspheres, and assume it means unsupported crush strength.Hank > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 21:08:00 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 18:08:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test Message-ID: Hi Guys, I sent an email last week and I think it may have not went thru. Anybody out there? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 21:25:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 18:25:50 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test Message-ID: <204865.90345.bm@smtp105.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Working now. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/12/17 6:08 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test Hi Guys, I sent an email last week and I think it may have not went thru. Anybody out there? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 21:25:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 18:25:50 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test Message-ID: <939834.20716.bm@smtp204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Working now. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/12/17 6:08 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test Hi Guys, I sent an email last week and I think it may have not went thru. Anybody out there? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 21:29:19 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 01:29:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <505242036.537755.1497317359437@mail.yahoo.com> Sean,Thank you. ?I can's see the contact pressure being any big deal when you consider how little buoyancy is produced. ?I would think the issue would be motion from travel down the road. ?My thought was to?fill 4 inch plastic pipe with micro spheres. ?With the small diameter pipe, the contact from ?upward force on the spheres would be minimal. ?After considering this idea further, I would not use oil but water with a filtered vent for compensation. ?By using water I would loose some buoyancy but it would allow me to drain each of the ten tubes into a vat to separate the failed spheres and replace them with buoyant spheres. ?This could be done after each dive until a failure rate was established, if, there is a failure rate. ?It could end up being an annual process like changing the WD 40 in the motors. ?If this could work it would cost 1,500 dollars and that is buying it at ?small quantity pricing. ? Is there a safety margin established for buoyancy material?Hank On Monday, June 12, 2017 7:08 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Guys, I sent an email last week and I think it may have not went thru. Anybody out there? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 21:32:09 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 01:32:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test In-Reply-To: <204865.90345.bm@smtp105.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <204865.90345.bm@smtp105.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1389493680.8461248.1497317529456@mail.yahoo.com> Got you here in Canada David ;-) On Monday, June 12, 2017 7:26 PM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Working now. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/12/17 6:08 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test Hi Guys, I sent an email last week and I think it may have not went thru. Anybody out there? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 12 23:43:51 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 15:43:51 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Got you at Queenstown airport N.Z. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 13/06/2017, at 1:08 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Guys, I sent an email last week and I think it may have not went thru. Anybody out there? > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 13 00:23:14 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 21:23:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test Message-ID: <20170612212314.6775C2AF@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 13 12:57:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 12:57:50 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pan/Tilt camera Message-ID: <01bd01d2e466$310c9130$9325b390$@gmail.com> That's outstanding! Thanks for the video and inspiration! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 13 15:11:31 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 15:11:31 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vancouver visit In-Reply-To: <001801d2c6ae$6f24af50$4d6e0df0$@telus.net> References: <001801d2c6ae$6f24af50$4d6e0df0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <15ca2de373f-7d0a-d9aa@webprd-a04.mail.aol.com> Hi Tim, My Vancouver trip got postponed until June 26 th. Please email me off psubs at geneseus at gmail. Hope to catch up with you then. Thanks, Gene On Saturday, May 6, 2017 at 2:19 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Gene, Will you be in Vancouver on the weekend? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Gene via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, May 4, 2017 10:25 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vancouver visit Hi everybody. I?m Gene Seus, lurker in central California and sometimes active PSUBS participant since 1997, the humble beginnings! I?m going to Vancouver BC in the next couple of weeks and know we have two or three members there along with Mr. Nuytten. I would like to contact one of our members in BC for a small favor while I?m there. Don?t know that I?ll be there long enough for much sight seeing but? I?m driving up in the next 10 days or so. Going to be in Portland for the delivery of a new grand child and BC isn?t that much further. Thanks, Gene -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 13 15:23:36 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 12:23:36 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test In-Reply-To: <20170612212314.6775C2AF@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20170612212314.6775C2AF@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: Thanks for letting me know. On Jun 12, 2017 9:23 PM, "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi David, Brian from Ojai, CA > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test > Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 18:08:00 -0700 > > Hi Guys, I sent an email last week and I think it may have not went thru. > Anybody out there? > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 14 21:10:32 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 01:10:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] landing craft References: <1283848510.4291061.1497489032813.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1283848510.4291061.1497489032813@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,Got a problem to solve, my sub barge has a 30 hp outboard motor. ?When I try to cruise fast it cavitates real bad. ?When I push something that won't move like a dock, I can push at full throttle no problem. ?I am planning to build a landing craft 36 feet long using the steel hull from my paddle wheeler. ?I am building it to carry and launch Elementary. ?My concern is, because it is a displacement hull and it will be slow, ?will I have the same problem with cavitation ?that the ?barge has. ?Do I need to use a jet instead? ? I can't work on it for a year, but I want to ?source all the parts, engine, drive etc etc.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 14 21:22:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 11:22:53 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] landing craft In-Reply-To: <1283848510.4291061.1497489032813@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1283848510.4291061.1497489032813.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1283848510.4291061.1497489032813@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, I've done a fair amount of stuff with overloaded dive boats with outboards that size - enough to know that displacement speed + full throttle != cavitation (necessarily). Have you tried lowering the engine deeper into the water? And/or getting the "suction" area of it further away from the boat? Failing that a different prop could be the next thing to investigate. Cheers, Steve On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 11:10 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, > Got a problem to solve, my sub barge has a 30 hp outboard motor. When I > try to cruise fast it cavitates real bad. When I push something that won't > move like a dock, I can push at full throttle no problem. I am planning to > build a landing craft 36 feet long using the steel hull from my paddle > wheeler. I am building it to carry and launch Elementary. My concern is, > because it is a displacement hull and it will be slow, will I have the > same problem with cavitation that the barge has. Do I need to use a jet > instead? I can't work on it for a year, but I want to source all the > parts, engine, drive etc etc. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 14 21:36:46 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 01:36:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] landing craft In-Reply-To: References: <1283848510.4291061.1497489032813.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1283848510.4291061.1497489032813@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <382329002.10241477.1497490606506@mail.yahoo.com> Steve,I did not try to lower because it is a weld job and the barge is in the water now. ?But,,, when waves come down between the pontoons the water level is much higher momentarily, and there is no change. ?If the lake is dead calm it is better, and I can speed up a bit more if I am gentle on throttle. ?My buddy has the exact same problem with his pontoon raft and his motor is lower. ?we thought it might be a prop issue because the prop is meant to be moving forward at the given rpm??hank On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 7:23 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank,I've done a fair amount of?stuff with overloaded dive boats with outboards that size - enough to know that?displacement speed?+?full throttle !=?cavitation (necessarily). Have you tried lowering the engine deeper into the water?? And/or?getting the "suction" area of it further away from?the boat? Failing that?a different prop could be the next thing to investigate. Cheers,Steve On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 11:10 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Got a problem to solve, my sub barge has a 30 hp outboard motor.? When I try to cruise fast it cavitates real bad.? When I push something that won't move like a dock, I can push at full throttle no problem.? I am planning to build a landing craft 36 feet long using the steel hull from my paddle wheeler.? I am building it to carry and launch Elementary.? My concern is, because it is a displacement hull and it will be slow, ?will I have the same problem with cavitation ?that the ?barge has.? Do I need to use a jet instead? ? I can't work on it for a year, but I want to ?source all the parts, engine, drive etc etc.Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 14 21:47:09 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 19:47:09 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] landing craft In-Reply-To: LJNddKPmpVo4PLJNedp4Cc References: <1283848510.4291061.1497489032813.ref@mail.yahoo.com> LJNddKPmpVo4PLJNedp4Cc Message-ID: Are you sure that it's cavitation (spontaneous vapourization and subsequent bubble collapse on the low pressure face of the propellor blades), and not ventilation (surface air being sucked into the upstream flow ahead of the propellor)? Cavitation can be addressed by changing propellors - go to a lower pitch, or greater number of blades (increased disc area). If possible, fit a larger diameter prop and operate at lower rpm. Also check that the upstream flow path is not restricted in any way. Ventilation can be addressed by adding an anti-ventilation plate on the skeg, increasing the immersion depth of the prop, and checking for any adverse trim issues. Sean On June 14, 2017 7:10:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi All,Got a problem to solve, my sub barge has a 30 hp outboard motor. >?When I try to cruise fast it cavitates real bad. ?When I push >something that won't move like a dock, I can push at full throttle no >problem. ?I am planning to build a landing craft 36 feet long using the >steel hull from my paddle wheeler. ?I am building it to carry and >launch Elementary. ?My concern is, because it is a displacement hull >and it will be slow, ?will I have the same problem with cavitation >?that the ?barge has. ?Do I need to use a jet instead? ? I can't work >on it for a year, but I want to ?source all the parts, engine, drive >etc etc.Hank > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 14 21:53:55 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 01:53:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] landing craft In-Reply-To: References: <1283848510.4291061.1497489032813.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <106392903.2345774.1497491635640@mail.yahoo.com> Sean,I only use the word cavitation loosly, since I have no clue. ?The water flow is very unrestricted as it is a pontoon vessel. ?It could be ventilation. ?But why does it work perfect when it is pushing against an immovable object, same trim, same water flow.Hank On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 7:47 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Are you sure that it's cavitation (spontaneous vapourization and subsequent bubble collapse on the low pressure face of the propellor blades), and not ventilation (surface air being sucked into the upstream flow ahead of the propellor)?Cavitation can be addressed by changing propellors - go to a lower pitch, or greater number of blades (increased disc area). If possible, fit a larger diameter prop and operate at lower rpm. Also check that the upstream flow path is not restricted in any way.Ventilation can be addressed by adding an anti-ventilation plate on the skeg, increasing the immersion depth of the prop, and checking for any adverse trim issues.Sean On June 14, 2017 7:10:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Got a problem to solve, my sub barge has a 30 hp outboard motor. ?When I try to cruise fast it cavitates real bad. ?When I push something that won't move like a dock, I can push at full throttle no problem. ?I am planning to build a landing craft 36 feet long using the steel hull from my paddle wheeler. ?I am building it to carry and launch Elementary. ?My concern is, because it is a displacement hull and it will be slow, ?will I have the same problem with cavitation ?that the ?barge has. ?Do I need to use a jet instead? ? I can't work on it for a year, but I want to ?source all the parts, engine, drive etc etc.Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 14 23:26:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 21:26:43 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] landing craft In-Reply-To: LK3idjNUQx0TtLK3jdIvr1 References: <1283848510.4291061.1497489032813.ref@mail.yahoo.com> LK3idjNUQx0TtLK3jdIvr1 Message-ID: <74725aa0-78a0-4419-8238-3251c34c7733@email.android.com> The water flow isn't the same though. In the bollard pull scenario (zero speed of advance), the upstream flow has zero speed and maximum pressure. Slip, and hence thrust, is maximized, and the flow through the propellor is parallel to its axis. Once the boat gets moving, its own wake has an effect on the angle of flow through the propulsor. With a heavy displacement craft with a pronounced bow wave, as you approach hull speed you'll be sitting in a hole, and both the flow angle and prop immersion depth can be affected. You can also start ventilating the prop as the effective water level changes. Also, as you gain speed, the propellor now has some advance, and therefore less slip and less thrust. The prop is unloaded somewhat, and may rev at a higher rpm as a result, which can lead to cavitation if you have too little blade area to absorb the pressure difference. Sounds like it might just be ventilating though. Sean On June 14, 2017 7:53:55 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Sean,I only use the word cavitation loosly, since I have no clue. ?The >water flow is very unrestricted as it is a pontoon vessel. ?It could be >ventilation. ?But why does it work perfect when it is pushing against >an immovable object, same trim, same water flow.Hank > >On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 7:47 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Are you sure that it's cavitation (spontaneous vapourization and >subsequent bubble collapse on the low pressure face of the propellor >blades), and not ventilation (surface air being sucked into the >upstream flow ahead of the propellor)?Cavitation can be addressed by >changing propellors - go to a lower pitch, or greater number of blades >(increased disc area). If possible, fit a larger diameter prop and >operate at lower rpm. Also check that the upstream flow path is not >restricted in any way.Ventilation can be addressed by adding an >anti-ventilation plate on the skeg, increasing the immersion depth of >the prop, and checking for any adverse trim issues.Sean > > >On June 14, 2017 7:10:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >Hi All,Got a problem to solve, my sub barge has a 30 hp outboard motor. >?When I try to cruise fast it cavitates real bad. ?When I push >something that won't move like a dock, I can push at full throttle no >problem. ?I am planning to build a landing craft 36 feet long using the >steel hull from my paddle wheeler. ?I am building it to carry and >launch Elementary. ?My concern is, because it is a displacement hull >and it will be slow, ?will I have the same problem with cavitation >?that the ?barge has. ?Do I need to use a jet instead? ? I can't work >on it for a year, but I want to ?source all the parts, engine, drive >etc etc.Hank >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 15 00:38:33 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 21:38:33 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] landing craft In-Reply-To: LJNddKPmpVo4PLJNedp4Cc References: <1283848510.4291061.1497489032813.ref@mail.yahoo.com> LJNddKPmpVo4PLJNedp4Cc Message-ID: <000501d2e591$3fc74bd0$bf55e370$@telus.net> Hank, For a monohull try building the hull similarly to the WWII LCVP landing craft. If you prefer multi-hull then try the Wharram tiki hull design. Both brilliant in what they could do. The monohull landing craft is more roadable depending on dimensions. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 6:11 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] landing craft Hi All, Got a problem to solve, my sub barge has a 30 hp outboard motor. When I try to cruise fast it cavitates real bad. When I push something that won't move like a dock, I can push at full throttle no problem. I am planning to build a landing craft 36 feet long using the steel hull from my paddle wheeler. I am building it to carry and launch Elementary. My concern is, because it is a displacement hull and it will be slow, will I have the same problem with cavitation that the barge has. Do I need to use a jet instead? I can't work on it for a year, but I want to source all the parts, engine, drive etc etc. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 15 05:24:46 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 10:24:46 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub pen Message-ID: ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: all.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 105083 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 15 05:40:45 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 21:40:45 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub pen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2676F1CE-0154-4A9E-B549-4D98FED9F069@yahoo.com> Looks a great set up James. I would be quite happy to live up stairs with my submarine below me. A real man cave! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 15/06/2017, at 9:24 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 15 06:16:30 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 12:16:30 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub pen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0d4801d2e5c0$77e19640$67a4c2c0$@nl> Looks great James! Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: donderdag 15 juni 2017 11:25 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub pen ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 27719 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 15 07:34:01 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 11:34:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] landing craft In-Reply-To: <000501d2e591$3fc74bd0$bf55e370$@telus.net> References: <1283848510.4291061.1497489032813.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d2e591$3fc74bd0$bf55e370$@telus.net> Message-ID: <709997181.10496859.1497526441374@mail.yahoo.com> Thank you guys.Tim, I am the hull from my paddle wheeler to save money. ?I will have to make some changes but quite minor.Hank On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 10:39 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv5806910384 #yiv5806910384 -- _filtered #yiv5806910384 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5806910384 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5806910384 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv5806910384 #yiv5806910384 p.yiv5806910384MsoNormal, #yiv5806910384 li.yiv5806910384MsoNormal, #yiv5806910384 div.yiv5806910384MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv5806910384 a:link, #yiv5806910384 span.yiv5806910384MsoHyperlink {color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5806910384 a:visited, #yiv5806910384 span.yiv5806910384MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5806910384 span.yiv5806910384EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv5806910384 .yiv5806910384MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv5806910384 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv5806910384 div.yiv5806910384WordSection1 {}#yiv5806910384 Hank,For a monohull try building the hull similarly to the WWII LCVP landing craft.? If you prefer multi-hull then try the Wharram tiki hull design.? Both brilliant in what they could do.? The monohull landing craft is more roadable depending on dimensions.Tim ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 6:11 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] landing craft ?Hi All,Got a problem to solve, my sub barge has a 30 hp outboard motor. ?When I try to cruise fast it cavitates real bad. ?When I push something that won't move like a dock, I can push at full throttle no problem. ?I am planning to build a landing craft 36 feet long using the steel hull from my paddle wheeler. ?I am building it to carry and launch Elementary. ?My concern is, because it is a displacement hull and it will be slow, ?will I have the same problem with cavitation ?that the ?barge has. ?Do I need to use a jet instead? ? I can't work on it for a year, but I want to ?source all the parts, engine, drive etc etc.Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 15 07:50:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 11:50:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: boat In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2073212351.10522924.1497527456392@mail.yahoo.com> Tim,This is the hull I will use, I will use it backwards though. ?The back will become the front and I will cut the pointy end down to hang a motor off it. ?As it sits it is 15,000 lbs and drafts 8 inches. ?I will get it down to 12,000 lbs as a landing craft.Hank On Thursday, June 15, 2017 5:46 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 420762_296179303764218_252579334790882_700285_1645609407_n.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 29859 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 15 09:14:07 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 13:14:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub pen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <861240218.18106911.1497532447331@mail.yahoo.com> Looks fantastic.? Very nice. An upstairs retrait that is a good idea. Juergen James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles schrieb am 4:27 Donnerstag, 15.Juni 2017: ??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: all.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 105083 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 15 15:52:06 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 07:52:06 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: boat In-Reply-To: <2073212351.10522924.1497527456392@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2073212351.10522924.1497527456392@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, great picture. Cutting up that paddle steamer up would be a sacrilege. Can you not find a buyer for it & use the money for a new hull? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 15/06/2017, at 11:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Tim, > This is the hull I will use, I will use it backwards though. The back will become the front and I will cut the pointy end down to hang a motor off it. As it sits it is 15,000 lbs and drafts 8 inches. I will get it down to 12,000 lbs as a landing craft. > Hank > > > On Thursday, June 15, 2017 5:46 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > <420762_296179303764218_252579334790882_700285_1645609407_n.jpeg> > > > <420762_296179303764218_252579334790882_700285_1645609407_n.jpeg> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 15 17:17:17 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 14:17:17 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test at boat yard Message-ID: <20170615141717.6774071F@m0117459.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 15 17:33:51 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 21:33:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: boat In-Reply-To: References: <2073212351.10522924.1497527456392@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1644969466.11010278.1497562431256@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,The cabin structure on the paddle wheeler is not in great condition, I have also removed the hydraulics and the antique engine already. ?I have lost interest and it was a lot of work keeping the boat up. ?Converting the hull is a pretty small job and a huge time saver in building a new hull. ? ?I was a cool boat though. ?Another motivator is that there is a demand for a landing craft here, I will just build it to?accommodate a submarine ;-)Hank On Thursday, June 15, 2017 1:52 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,great picture. Cutting up that paddle steamer up would be a sacrilege.Can you not find a buyer for it & use the money for a new hull?Alan? Sent from my iPad On 15/06/2017, at 11:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Tim,This is the hull I will use, I will use it backwards though. ?The back will become the front and I will cut the pointy end down to hang a motor off it. ?As it sits it is 15,000 lbs and drafts 8 inches. ?I will get it down to 12,000 lbs as a landing craft.Hank On Thursday, June 15, 2017 5:46 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: <420762_296179303764218_252579334790882_700285_1645609407_n.jpeg> <420762_296179303764218_252579334790882_700285_1645609407_n.jpeg> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 15 17:40:42 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 21:40:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test at boat yard In-Reply-To: <20170615141717.6774071F@m0117459.ppops.net> References: <20170615141717.6774071F@m0117459.ppops.net> Message-ID: <355336165.5000801.1497562842218@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,Can you not install a lighter tank, it sounds like it was not that bad if you could sink to hatch depth without the sub standing up. ?I assume the tank is for buoyancy? ?How big is it? how heavy is it? ?When you sank to the hatch was all the air out of the MBT. ?Maybe you just have a balance issue.?Hank On Thursday, June 15, 2017 3:17 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,????????????? Did my test today down at the boat yard.? The good news is that is was really stable and no worries about it flipping over.? The bad new is that the nose is too heavy which I was fearing.?? So once it was completely flooded the nose wanted to dive down.? But my motor pod behaved like it was suppose to , no leaks of wd40 or mineral oil from the vinyl tubing.??? I think I had pretty close to the right amount of weight, took it down to the top of the conning tower.? So what I'm going to do is?yank off that front tank which is too dam heavy and replace it with some foam or something.? ? I think I also confirmed that I can probably launch off the launch ramp next time instead of the big travel lift at the?boat yard.? I will have some video coming soon !?Brian?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 15 17:51:11 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 14:51:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: boat Message-ID: <665371.18948.bm@smtp225.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hank, I'm curious, what kind of engine was in the side wheeler? Keith T. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/15/17 2:33 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: boat Alan,The cabin structure on the paddle wheeler is not in great condition, I have also removed the hydraulics and the antique engine already. ?I have lost interest and it was a lot of work keeping the boat up. ?Converting the hull is a pretty small job and a huge time saver in building a new hull. ? ?I was a cool boat though. ?Another motivator is that there is a demand for a landing craft here, I will just build it to?accommodate a submarine ;-)Hank On Thursday, June 15, 2017 1:52 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,great picture. Cutting up that paddle steamer up would be a sacrilege.Can you not find a buyer for it & use the money for a new hull?Alan? Sent from my iPad On 15/06/2017, at 11:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Tim,This is the hull I will use, I will use it backwards though. ?The back will become the front and I will cut the pointy end down to hang a motor off it. ?As it sits it is 15,000 lbs and drafts 8 inches. ?I will get it down to 12,000 lbs as a landing craft.Hank On Thursday, June 15, 2017 5:46 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: <420762_296179303764218_252579334790882_700285_1645609407_n.jpeg> <420762_296179303764218_252579334790882_700285_1645609407_n.jpeg>_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 15 18:02:24 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 18:02:24 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: boat Message-ID: Also curious about the paddle wheeler engine. I run with these guys down in the States http://www.americansternwheel.org/ Like the Psubbers, a rather interesting crew. Keeping the sidewheels on the landing craft might be a good idea. Low draft, doesn't get caught up on weeds, high thrust at low speed, and works just as well in reverse as it does going forward. On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 5:50 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Fw: boat (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) > 2. Test at boat yard (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) > 3. Re: Fw: boat (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) > 4. Re: Test at boat yard (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) > 5. Re: Fw: boat (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 07:52:06 +1200 > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: boat > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hank, > great picture. Cutting up that paddle steamer up would be a sacrilege. > Can you not find a buyer for it & use the money for a new hull? > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 15/06/2017, at 11:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Tim, > > This is the hull I will use, I will use it backwards though. The back > will become the front and I will cut the pointy end down to hang a motor > off it. As it sits it is 15,000 lbs and drafts 8 inches. I will get it > down to 12,000 lbs as a landing craft. > > Hank > > > > > > On Thursday, June 15, 2017 5:46 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > > > > <420762_296179303764218_252579334790882_700285_1645609407_n.jpeg> > > > > > > <420762_296179303764218_252579334790882_700285_1645609407_n.jpeg> > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: 20170616/787cf3e2/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 14:17:17 -0700 > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > To: "PSubs " > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test at boat yard > Message-ID: <20170615141717.6774071F at m0117459.ppops.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: 20170615/ee3ac2ee/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 21:33:51 +0000 (UTC) > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: boat > Message-ID: <1644969466.11010278.1497562431256 at mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Alan,The cabin structure on the paddle wheeler is not in great condition, > I have also removed the hydraulics and the antique engine already. ?I have > lost interest and it was a lot of work keeping the boat up. ?Converting the > hull is a pretty small job and a huge time saver in building a new hull. ? > ?I was a cool boat though. ?Another motivator is that there is a demand for > a landing craft here, I will just build it to?accommodate a submarine > ;-)Hank > > On Thursday, June 15, 2017 1:52 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hank,great picture. Cutting up that paddle steamer up would be a > sacrilege.Can you not find a buyer for it & use the money for a new > hull?Alan? > > Sent from my iPad > On 15/06/2017, at 11:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Tim,This is the hull I will use, I will use it backwards though. ?The back > will become the front and I will cut the pointy end down to hang a motor > off it. ?As it sits it is 15,000 lbs and drafts 8 inches. ?I will get it > down to 12,000 lbs as a landing craft.Hank > > On Thursday, June 15, 2017 5:46 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > <420762_296179303764218_252579334790882_700285_1645609407_n.jpeg> > > > > > <420762_296179303764218_252579334790882_700285_1645609407_n.jpeg> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: 20170615/00d102c3/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 21:40:42 +0000 (UTC) > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test at boat yard > Message-ID: <355336165.5000801.1497562842218 at mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Brian,Can you not install a lighter tank, it sounds like it was not that > bad if you could sink to hatch depth without the sub standing up. ?I assume > the tank is for buoyancy? ?How big is it? how heavy is it? ?When you sank > to the hatch was all the air out of the MBT. ?Maybe you just have a balance > issue.?Hank > > On Thursday, June 15, 2017 3:17 PM, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi All,????????????? Did my test today down at the boat yard.? The good > news is that is was really stable and no worries about it flipping over.? > The bad new is that the nose is too heavy which I was fearing.?? So once it > was completely flooded the nose wanted to dive down.? But my motor pod > behaved like it was suppose to , no leaks of wd40 or mineral oil from the > vinyl tubing.??? I think I had pretty close to the right amount of weight, > took it down to the top of the conning tower.? So what I'm going to do > is?yank off that front tank which is too dam heavy and replace it with some > foam or something.? ? I think I also confirmed that I can probably launch > off the launch ramp next time instead of the big travel lift at the?boat > yard.? I will have some video coming soon !?Brian?______________________ > _________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: 20170615/9900f7e1/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 14:51:11 -0700 > From: k6fee via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: boat > Message-ID: <665371.18948.bm at smtp225.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hank, > I'm curious, what kind of engine was in the side wheeler? > Keith T. > > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/15/17 > 2:33 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: boat > Alan,The cabin structure on the paddle wheeler is not in great condition, > I have also removed the hydraulics and the antique engine already. ?I have > lost interest and it was a lot of work keeping the boat up. ?Converting the > hull is a pretty small job and a huge time saver in building a new hull. ? > ?I was a cool boat though. ?Another motivator is that there is a demand for > a landing craft here, I will just build it to?accommodate a submarine > ;-)Hank > > On Thursday, June 15, 2017 1:52 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hank,great picture. Cutting up that paddle steamer up would be a > sacrilege.Can you not find a buyer for it & use the money for a new > hull?Alan? > > Sent from my iPad > On 15/06/2017, at 11:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Tim,This is the hull I will use, I will use it backwards though. ?The back > will become the front and I will cut the pointy end down to hang a motor > off it. ?As it sits it is 15,000 lbs and drafts 8 inches. ?I will get it > down to 12,000 lbs as a landing craft.Hank > > On Thursday, June 15, 2017 5:46 AM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > > > > > > <420762_296179303764218_252579334790882_700285_1645609407_n.jpeg> > > > > > <420762_296179303764218_252579334790882_700285_ > 1645609407_n.jpeg>_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: 20170615/a12018ff/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 43 > ***************************************************** > -- -River J. Dolfi 412-997-2526 rdolfi7 at gmail.com rwd5301 at psu.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 15 18:32:54 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 22:32:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <230762379.3079891.1497565974343@mail.yahoo.com> The engine is a 1935 Vivian Gas 15 hp. ?at 250 rpm ?it weighs 1,200 lbs and is hand start. ?One mag was stuck on?advance and it kicked back on me and tossed me like a rag doll an I was pretty injured. ?My wife refused to come with me if it was hand start after that. ?Now it is air start ;-) ?and installed in my cedar fantail launch 26 feet. ?Paddles look cool and accelerate like craze but it would be to slow on a landing craft. ?Also the boat would be to wide to transport unless I pull the wheels off.Hank On Thursday, June 15, 2017 4:26 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pictures 243-2.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 32071 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 15 18:40:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 18:40:53 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian In-Reply-To: <230762379.3079891.1497565974343@mail.yahoo.com> References: <230762379.3079891.1497565974343@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: That's awesome! On 6/15/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > The engine is a 1935 Vivian Gas 15 hp. at 250 rpm it weighs 1,200 lbs and > is hand start. One mag was stuck on advance and it kicked back on me and > tossed me like a rag doll an I was pretty injured. My wife refused to come > with me if it was hand start after that. Now it is air start ;-) and > installed in my cedar fantail launch 26 feet. Paddles look cool and > accelerate like craze but it would be to slow on a landing craft. Also the > boat would be to wide to transport unless I pull the wheels off.Hank > > On Thursday, June 15, 2017 4:26 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > > > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 15 19:35:17 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 09:35:17 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian In-Reply-To: References: <230762379.3079891.1497565974343@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Very awesome!! On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 8:40 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > That's awesome! > > On 6/15/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > The engine is a 1935 Vivian Gas 15 hp. at 250 rpm it weighs 1,200 lbs > and > > is hand start. One mag was stuck on advance and it kicked back on me and > > tossed me like a rag doll an I was pretty injured. My wife refused to > come > > with me if it was hand start after that. Now it is air start ;-) and > > installed in my cedar fantail launch 26 feet. Paddles look cool and > > accelerate like craze but it would be to slow on a landing craft. Also > the > > boat would be to wide to transport unless I pull the wheels off.Hank > > > > On Thursday, June 15, 2017 4:26 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 15 19:37:10 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 23:37:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian In-Reply-To: References: <230762379.3079891.1497565974343@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <518456399.2944255.1497569830475@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks, my other hobby is collecting antique gas and steam enginesHank On Thursday, June 15, 2017 5:35 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Very awesome!! On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 8:40 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That's awesome! On 6/15/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > The engine is a 1935 Vivian Gas 15 hp.? at 250 rpm? it weighs 1,200 lbs and > is hand start.? One mag was stuck on advance and it kicked back on me and > tossed me like a rag doll an I was pretty injured.? My wife refused to come > with me if it was hand start after that.? Now it is air start ;-)? and > installed in my cedar fantail launch 26 feet.? Paddles look cool and > accelerate like craze but it would be to slow on a landing craft.? Also the > boat would be to wide to transport unless I pull the wheels off.Hank > >? ? ? On Thursday, June 15, 2017 4:26 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 15 17:02:16 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 14:02:16 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test Message-ID: <20170615140216.677406A5@m0117459.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 15 20:39:26 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 17:39:26 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] landing craft In-Reply-To: LT78dCBbQNSROLT79dUpKe References: <1283848510.4291061.1497489032813.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d2e591$3fc74bd0$bf55e370$@telus.net> LT78dCBbQNSROLT79dUpKe Message-ID: <007b01d2e639$02d259b0$08770d10$@telus.net> Sounds good, Hank. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 4:34 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] landing craft Thank you guys. Tim, I am the hull from my paddle wheeler to save money. I will have to make some changes but quite minor. Hank On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 10:39 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hank, For a monohull try building the hull similarly to the WWII LCVP landing craft. If you prefer multi-hull then try the Wharram tiki hull design. Both brilliant in what they could do. The monohull landing craft is more roadable depending on dimensions. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 6:11 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] landing craft Hi All, Got a problem to solve, my sub barge has a 30 hp outboard motor. When I try to cruise fast it cavitates real bad. When I push something that won't move like a dock, I can push at full throttle no problem. I am planning to build a landing craft 36 feet long using the steel hull from my paddle wheeler. I am building it to carry and launch Elementary. My concern is, because it is a displacement hull and it will be slow, will I have the same problem with cavitation that the barge has. Do I need to use a jet instead? I can't work on it for a year, but I want to source all the parts, engine, drive etc etc. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 15 22:43:39 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 19:43:39 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test at boat yard Message-ID: <20170615194339.A7C36FC3@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 16 02:08:09 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 23:08:09 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Esmaralda video - Message-ID: <20170615230809.A7BFC705@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 16 12:26:05 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 16:26:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test at boat yard In-Reply-To: <20170615194339.A7C36FC3@m0117164.ppops.net> References: <20170615194339.A7C36FC3@m0117164.ppops.net> Message-ID: <843048991.4180376.1497630365108@mail.yahoo.com> I am sure you will get the kinks worked out. ?Nice work so far Brian. Jon On Thursday, June 15, 2017 10:45 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,???????????? My original intention was to use that forward tank as a trim tank and I also had a idea that I would change orientation and go vertical like the Scripps ship "Flip"? , which I pretty much almost did today!?? But now I'm just concerned with having a working sub for the time being.? When I made the forward trim tank it needed to be able to take the same pressure of the hull but I think I over did it a bit and used too heavy a gauge pipe .?? I'm not getting the buoyancy that I need?,?? it was difficult to calculate what?the weight of the ferro cement would be in water up in the front there.? ?? I ran most all the air out of the MBT? and at the end the nose took a nose dive.? I think the best thing would be to put a big cylinder of synaptic foam in place of the tank I have now?, that way I could add extra compressed air cylinders if there is too much buoyancy ,? or lead to find the balance point.? ?? One thing that I'm extremely pleased about the?freeboard when the MBT is filled with air,? I have nearly 4 ft? to the top of the hatch.?Brian?? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 16 13:36:21 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 10:36:21 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian Message-ID: <861071.53752.bm@smtp219.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hank, That's a nice old engine! I have to confess, I've been holding out from everyone on the forum. While I don't have a submarine yet, I do have a support vessel, powered by a 1929 Atlas Imperial diesel engine. Here's a link to my youtube channel with some videos of the boat and engine. https://youtu.be/qLaCgX2Tdc0 Keith T. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/15/17 3:32 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian The engine is a 1935 Vivian Gas 15 hp. ?at 250 rpm ?it weighs 1,200 lbs and is hand start. ?One mag was stuck on?advance and it kicked back on me and tossed me like a rag doll an I was pretty injured. ?My wife refused to come with me if it was hand start after that. ?Now it is air start ;-) ?and installed in my cedar fantail launch 26 feet. ?Paddles look cool and accelerate like craze but it would be to slow on a landing craft. ?Also the boat would be to wide to transport unless I pull the wheels off.Hank On Thursday, June 15, 2017 4:26 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 16 14:36:39 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:36:39 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] initial launch video Message-ID: <20170616113639.A7BF2180@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 16 15:07:55 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 15:07:55 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] initial launch video In-Reply-To: <20170616113639.A7BF2180@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20170616113639.A7BF2180@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: Way to go Brian! Boy what I would do to have access to a crane like that one... ~ Douglas S. On 6/16/17, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All, > Here is the initial launch, I didn't have any stability > problems throughout the transition from total flotation to submerged . Most > of the additional weight that I added from last time is located in the > bottom of the ferro structure closest to the sphere and I had about 300 lbs > in the drop weight hopper. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LUEOJEqO18 > > Brian From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 16 15:53:57 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 12:53:57 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] initial launch video Message-ID: <20170616125357.A7BF2BF6@m0117567.ppops.net> Doug, You can have access too ! For a price ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] initial launch video Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 15:07:55 -0400 Way to go Brian! Boy what I would do to have access to a crane like that one... ~ Douglas S. On 6/16/17, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All, > Here is the initial launch, I didn't have any stability > problems throughout the transition from total flotation to submerged . Most > of the additional weight that I added from last time is located in the > bottom of the ferro structure closest to the sphere and I had about 300 lbs > in the drop weight hopper. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LUEOJEqO18 > > Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 16 16:26:37 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 20:26:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian In-Reply-To: <861071.53752.bm@smtp219.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <861071.53752.bm@smtp219.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <963257670.879018.1497644797410@mail.yahoo.com> Kieth,That is a beast, you must have a?substantial sub support boat! ?I love it !!!!! ?My Vivian will run at 50 rpm no problem.Hank On Friday, June 16, 2017 11:36 AM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, That's a nice old engine! I have to confess, I've been holding out from everyone on the forum. While I don't have a submarine yet, I do have a support vessel, powered by a 1929 Atlas Imperial diesel engine. Here's a link to my youtube channel with some videos of the boat and engine. https://youtu.be/qLaCgX2Tdc0 Keith T. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/15/17 3:32 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian The engine is a 1935 Vivian Gas 15 hp. ?at 250 rpm ?it weighs 1,200 lbs and is hand start. ?One mag was stuck on?advance and it kicked back on me and tossed me like a rag doll an I was pretty injured. ?My wife refused to come with me if it was hand start after that. ?Now it is air start ;-) ?and installed in my cedar fantail launch 26 feet. ?Paddles look cool and accelerate like craze but it would be to slow on a landing craft. ?Also the boat would be to wide to transport unless I pull the wheels off.Hank On Thursday, June 15, 2017 4:26 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 16 16:31:34 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 20:31:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] initial launch video In-Reply-To: <20170616125357.A7BF2BF6@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20170616125357.A7BF2BF6@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1959241029.3630748.1497645094684@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,I hate to see that defeated look on your face. ?I am amazed at your stick to it, work?ethic.?Hank On Friday, June 16, 2017 1:54 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doug,? You can have access too !? For a price ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] initial launch video Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 15:07:55 -0400 Way to go Brian! Boy what I would do to have access to a crane like that one... ~ Douglas S. On 6/16/17, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All, >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Here is the initial launch, I didn't have any stability > problems throughout the transition from total flotation to submerged .? Most > of the additional weight that I added from last time is located in the > bottom of the ferro structure closest to the sphere and I had about 300 lbs > in the drop weight hopper. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LUEOJEqO18 > > Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 16 16:58:29 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 13:58:29 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian Message-ID: <405818.64071.bm@smtp209.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hank, If you watched the other videos it gives you an idea of the boats size. The engine is 4086 c.i., turns 325 rpm full tilt, direct reversing (meaning the engine stops, cam shaft slides to a second set of lobes and the engine starts and runs backwards, for reverse. Also when it is running the prop is spinning, no neutral, just like a ship). The boat was built in 1929, is 78' long, 15' beam, 8.5' draft, with a fuel capacity of 3500 gallons of diesel. The engine ( witch is original to the boat) is the last 6 cylinder 8" bore X 12' stroke of it's size still in existence. Turning a 56" X 36" screw. Keith T.? Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/16/17 1:26 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian Kieth,That is a beast, you must have a?substantial sub support boat! ?I love it !!!!! ?My Vivian will run at 50 rpm no problem.Hank On Friday, June 16, 2017 11:36 AM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, That's a nice old engine! I have to confess, I've been holding out from everyone on the forum. While I don't have a submarine yet, I do have a support vessel, powered by a 1929 Atlas Imperial diesel engine. Here's a link to my youtube channel with some videos of the boat and engine. https://youtu.be/qLaCgX2Tdc0 Keith T. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/15/17 3:32 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian The engine is a 1935 Vivian Gas 15 hp. ?at 250 rpm ?it weighs 1,200 lbs and is hand start. ?One mag was stuck on?advance and it kicked back on me and tossed me like a rag doll an I was pretty injured. ?My wife refused to come with me if it was hand start after that. ?Now it is air start ;-) ?and installed in my cedar fantail launch 26 feet. ?Paddles look cool and accelerate like craze but it would be to slow on a landing craft. ?Also the boat would be to wide to transport unless I pull the wheels off.Hank On Thursday, June 15, 2017 4:26 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 16 17:34:17 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2017 09:34:17 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian In-Reply-To: <405818.64071.bm@smtp209.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <405818.64071.bm@smtp209.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <04BBB052-BD19-427A-A295-E7A936A0EB89@yahoo.com> That's impressive Keith, where abouts is she moored? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 17/06/2017, at 8:58 AM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > > If you watched the other videos it gives you an idea of the boats size. The engine is 4086 c.i., turns 325 rpm full tilt, direct reversing (meaning the engine stops, cam shaft slides to a second set of lobes and the engine starts and runs backwards, for reverse. Also when it is running the prop is spinning, no neutral, just like a ship). > > The boat was built in 1929, is 78' long, 15' beam, 8.5' draft, with a fuel capacity of 3500 gallons of diesel. The engine ( witch is original to the boat) is the last 6 cylinder 8" bore X 12' stroke of it's size still in existence. Turning a 56" X 36" screw. > > Keith T. > > > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 6/16/17 1:26 PM (GMT-08:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian > > Kieth, > That is a beast, you must have a substantial sub support boat! I love it !!!!! My Vivian will run at 50 rpm no problem. > Hank > > > > On Friday, June 16, 2017 11:36 AM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > > That's a nice old engine! I have to confess, I've been holding out from everyone on the forum. While I don't have a submarine yet, I do have a support vessel, powered by a 1929 Atlas Imperial diesel engine. > > Here's a link to my youtube channel with some videos of the boat and engine. > > https://youtu.be/qLaCgX2Tdc0 > > Keith T. > > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 6/15/17 3:32 PM (GMT-08:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian > > The engine is a 1935 Vivian Gas 15 hp. at 250 rpm it weighs 1,200 lbs and is hand start. One mag was stuck on advance and it kicked back on me and tossed me like a rag doll an I was pretty injured. My wife refused to come with me if it was hand start after that. Now it is air start ;-) and installed in my cedar fantail launch 26 feet. Paddles look cool and accelerate like craze but it would be to slow on a landing craft. Also the boat would be to wide to transport unless I pull the wheels off. > Hank > > > On Thursday, June 15, 2017 4:26 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 16 17:53:55 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 14:53:55 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian Message-ID: <246250.98540.bm@smtp222.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Alan, North coast of California. She has quite a maritime history being the first iron hulled and diesel powered survey boat for the USGS. Made all the charts of Alaska and the Alutean Islands. I have pictures of her doing survey work from the 20's -40's, launch day, and wartime patrols. Built in Portland Oregon by Albina Marine. Keith T? Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/16/17 2:34 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian That's impressive Keith,where abouts is she moored?Alan Sent from my iPad On 17/06/2017, at 8:58 AM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, If you watched the other videos it gives you an idea of the boats size. The engine is 4086 c.i., turns 325 rpm full tilt, direct reversing (meaning the engine stops, cam shaft slides to a second set of lobes and the engine starts and runs backwards, for reverse. Also when it is running the prop is spinning, no neutral, just like a ship). The boat was built in 1929, is 78' long, 15' beam, 8.5' draft, with a fuel capacity of 3500 gallons of diesel. The engine ( witch is original to the boat) is the last 6 cylinder 8" bore X 12' stroke of it's size still in existence. Turning a 56" X 36" screw. Keith T.? Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/16/17 1:26 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian Kieth,That is a beast, you must have a?substantial sub support boat! ?I love it !!!!! ?My Vivian will run at 50 rpm no problem.Hank On Friday, June 16, 2017 11:36 AM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, That's a nice old engine! I have to confess, I've been holding out from everyone on the forum. While I don't have a submarine yet, I do have a support vessel, powered by a 1929 Atlas Imperial diesel engine. Here's a link to my youtube channel with some videos of the boat and engine. https://youtu.be/qLaCgX2Tdc0 Keith T. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/15/17 3:32 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian The engine is a 1935 Vivian Gas 15 hp. ?at 250 rpm ?it weighs 1,200 lbs and is hand start. ?One mag was stuck on?advance and it kicked back on me and tossed me like a rag doll an I was pretty injured. ?My wife refused to come with me if it was hand start after that. ?Now it is air start ;-) ?and installed in my cedar fantail launch 26 feet. ?Paddles look cool and accelerate like craze but it would be to slow on a landing craft. ?Also the boat would be to wide to transport unless I pull the wheels off.Hank On Thursday, June 15, 2017 4:26 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 16 17:53:55 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 14:53:55 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian Message-ID: <10749.63289.bm@smtp215.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Alan, North coast of California. She has quite a maritime history being the first iron hulled and diesel powered survey boat for the USGS. Made all the charts of Alaska and the Alutean Islands. I have pictures of her doing survey work from the 20's -40's, launch day, and wartime patrols. Built in Portland Oregon by Albina Marine. Keith T? Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/16/17 2:34 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian That's impressive Keith,where abouts is she moored?Alan Sent from my iPad On 17/06/2017, at 8:58 AM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, If you watched the other videos it gives you an idea of the boats size. The engine is 4086 c.i., turns 325 rpm full tilt, direct reversing (meaning the engine stops, cam shaft slides to a second set of lobes and the engine starts and runs backwards, for reverse. Also when it is running the prop is spinning, no neutral, just like a ship). The boat was built in 1929, is 78' long, 15' beam, 8.5' draft, with a fuel capacity of 3500 gallons of diesel. The engine ( witch is original to the boat) is the last 6 cylinder 8" bore X 12' stroke of it's size still in existence. Turning a 56" X 36" screw. Keith T.? Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/16/17 1:26 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian Kieth,That is a beast, you must have a?substantial sub support boat! ?I love it !!!!! ?My Vivian will run at 50 rpm no problem.Hank On Friday, June 16, 2017 11:36 AM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, That's a nice old engine! I have to confess, I've been holding out from everyone on the forum. While I don't have a submarine yet, I do have a support vessel, powered by a 1929 Atlas Imperial diesel engine. Here's a link to my youtube channel with some videos of the boat and engine. https://youtu.be/qLaCgX2Tdc0 Keith T. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/15/17 3:32 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian The engine is a 1935 Vivian Gas 15 hp. ?at 250 rpm ?it weighs 1,200 lbs and is hand start. ?One mag was stuck on?advance and it kicked back on me and tossed me like a rag doll an I was pretty injured. ?My wife refused to come with me if it was hand start after that. ?Now it is air start ;-) ?and installed in my cedar fantail launch 26 feet. ?Paddles look cool and accelerate like craze but it would be to slow on a landing craft. ?Also the boat would be to wide to transport unless I pull the wheels off.Hank On Thursday, June 15, 2017 4:26 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 16 17:49:16 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 21:49:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian In-Reply-To: <405818.64071.bm@smtp209.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <405818.64071.bm@smtp209.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <898271608.883511.1497649756748@mail.yahoo.com> Kieth,Just amazing!?Hank On Friday, June 16, 2017 2:58 PM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, If you watched the other videos it gives you an idea of the boats size. The engine is 4086 c.i., turns 325 rpm full tilt, direct reversing (meaning the engine stops, cam shaft slides to a second set of lobes and the engine starts and runs backwards, for reverse. Also when it is running the prop is spinning, no neutral, just like a ship). The boat was built in 1929, is 78' long, 15' beam, 8.5' draft, with a fuel capacity of 3500 gallons of diesel. The engine ( witch is original to the boat) is the last 6 cylinder 8" bore X 12' stroke of it's size still in existence. Turning a 56" X 36" screw. Keith T.? Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/16/17 1:26 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian Kieth,That is a beast, you must have a?substantial sub support boat! ?I love it !!!!! ?My Vivian will run at 50 rpm no problem.Hank On Friday, June 16, 2017 11:36 AM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, That's a nice old engine! I have to confess, I've been holding out from everyone on the forum. While I don't have a submarine yet, I do have a support vessel, powered by a 1929 Atlas Imperial diesel engine. Here's a link to my youtube channel with some videos of the boat and engine. https://youtu.be/qLaCgX2Tdc0 Keith T. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/15/17 3:32 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian The engine is a 1935 Vivian Gas 15 hp. ?at 250 rpm ?it weighs 1,200 lbs and is hand start. ?One mag was stuck on?advance and it kicked back on me and tossed me like a rag doll an I was pretty injured. ?My wife refused to come with me if it was hand start after that. ?Now it is air start ;-) ?and installed in my cedar fantail launch 26 feet. ?Paddles look cool and accelerate like craze but it would be to slow on a landing craft. ?Also the boat would be to wide to transport unless I pull the wheels off.Hank On Thursday, June 15, 2017 4:26 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 16 19:07:38 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2017 11:07:38 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian In-Reply-To: <246250.98540.bm@smtp222.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <246250.98540.bm@smtp222.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <94DA6042-C7B5-4D35-B2B6-9B37B7A855ED@yahoo.com> Thanks Keith, a real maritime museum piece. Hmmm, live aboard psub conferance! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 17/06/2017, at 9:53 AM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > North coast of California. She has quite a maritime history being the first iron hulled and diesel powered survey boat for the USGS. Made all the charts of Alaska and the Alutean Islands. I have pictures of her doing survey work from the 20's -40's, launch day, and wartime patrols. Built in Portland Oregon by Albina Marine. > > Keith T > > > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 6/16/17 2:34 PM (GMT-08:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian > > That's impressive Keith, > where abouts is she moored? > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 17/06/2017, at 8:58 AM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hank, >> >> If you watched the other videos it gives you an idea of the boats size. The engine is 4086 c.i., turns 325 rpm full tilt, direct reversing (meaning the engine stops, cam shaft slides to a second set of lobes and the engine starts and runs backwards, for reverse. Also when it is running the prop is spinning, no neutral, just like a ship). >> >> The boat was built in 1929, is 78' long, 15' beam, 8.5' draft, with a fuel capacity of 3500 gallons of diesel. The engine ( witch is original to the boat) is the last 6 cylinder 8" bore X 12' stroke of it's size still in existence. Turning a 56" X 36" screw. >> >> Keith T. >> >> >> >> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> Date: 6/16/17 1:26 PM (GMT-08:00) >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian >> >> Kieth, >> That is a beast, you must have a substantial sub support boat! I love it !!!!! My Vivian will run at 50 rpm no problem. >> Hank >> >> >> >> On Friday, June 16, 2017 11:36 AM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> >> That's a nice old engine! I have to confess, I've been holding out from everyone on the forum. While I don't have a submarine yet, I do have a support vessel, powered by a 1929 Atlas Imperial diesel engine. >> >> Here's a link to my youtube channel with some videos of the boat and engine. >> >> https://youtu.be/qLaCgX2Tdc0 >> >> Keith T. >> >> >> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> Date: 6/15/17 3:32 PM (GMT-08:00) >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian >> >> The engine is a 1935 Vivian Gas 15 hp. at 250 rpm it weighs 1,200 lbs and is hand start. One mag was stuck on advance and it kicked back on me and tossed me like a rag doll an I was pretty injured. My wife refused to come with me if it was hand start after that. Now it is air start ;-) and installed in my cedar fantail launch 26 feet. Paddles look cool and accelerate like craze but it would be to slow on a landing craft. Also the boat would be to wide to transport unless I pull the wheels off. >> Hank >> >> >> On Thursday, June 15, 2017 4:26 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 16 19:56:59 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 16:56:59 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] initial launch video In-Reply-To: <1959241029.3630748.1497645094684@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20170616125357.A7BF2BF6@m0117567.ppops.net> <1959241029.3630748.1497645094684@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Brian, Wow, Love the design and congrates. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 1:31 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Brian, > I hate to see that defeated look on your face. I am amazed at your stick > to it, work ethic. > Hank > > > On Friday, June 16, 2017 1:54 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Doug, You can have access too ! For a price ! > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] initial launch video > Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 15:07:55 -0400 > > Way to go Brian! Boy what I would do to have access to a crane like > that one... ~ Douglas S. > > On 6/16/17, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Hi All, > > Here is the initial launch, I didn't have any stability > > problems throughout the transition from total flotation to submerged . > Most > > of the additional weight that I added from last time is located in the > > bottom of the ferro structure closest to the sphere and I had about 300 > lbs > > in the drop weight hopper. > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LUEOJEqO18 > > > > Brian > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 16 20:44:40 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 17:44:40 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian Message-ID: <904115.53184.bm@smtp114.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, that was one of the attractions to this vessel, it's history and original antique heart (powerplant).? Yes, my insanity quotient is very high ( owning a big classic boat). My mother says I'm eccentric, I like to think I'm interesting. Boats, subs, ham radio, steam power, BP shooting, pipe organs, and more, much moar!! Hahaha!! In my interest/hobby catagory. But then again I think this holds true for all of us on the Psubs forum. ? Keith T. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/16/17 4:07 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian Thanks Keith,a real maritime museum piece.Hmmm, live aboard psub conferance!Alan? Sent from my iPad On 17/06/2017, at 9:53 AM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, North coast of California. She has quite a maritime history being the first iron hulled and diesel powered survey boat for the USGS. Made all the charts of Alaska and the Alutean Islands. I have pictures of her doing survey work from the 20's -40's, launch day, and wartime patrols. Built in Portland Oregon by Albina Marine. Keith T? Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/16/17 2:34 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian That's impressive Keith,where abouts is she moored?Alan Sent from my iPad On 17/06/2017, at 8:58 AM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, If you watched the other videos it gives you an idea of the boats size. The engine is 4086 c.i., turns 325 rpm full tilt, direct reversing (meaning the engine stops, cam shaft slides to a second set of lobes and the engine starts and runs backwards, for reverse. Also when it is running the prop is spinning, no neutral, just like a ship). The boat was built in 1929, is 78' long, 15' beam, 8.5' draft, with a fuel capacity of 3500 gallons of diesel. The engine ( witch is original to the boat) is the last 6 cylinder 8" bore X 12' stroke of it's size still in existence. Turning a 56" X 36" screw. Keith T.? Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/16/17 1:26 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian Kieth,That is a beast, you must have a?substantial sub support boat! ?I love it !!!!! ?My Vivian will run at 50 rpm no problem.Hank On Friday, June 16, 2017 11:36 AM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, That's a nice old engine! I have to confess, I've been holding out from everyone on the forum. While I don't have a submarine yet, I do have a support vessel, powered by a 1929 Atlas Imperial diesel engine. Here's a link to my youtube channel with some videos of the boat and engine. https://youtu.be/qLaCgX2Tdc0 Keith T. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/15/17 3:32 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: vivian The engine is a 1935 Vivian Gas 15 hp. ?at 250 rpm ?it weighs 1,200 lbs and is hand start. ?One mag was stuck on?advance and it kicked back on me and tossed me like a rag doll an I was pretty injured. ?My wife refused to come with me if it was hand start after that. ?Now it is air start ;-) ?and installed in my cedar fantail launch 26 feet. ?Paddles look cool and accelerate like craze but it would be to slow on a landing craft. ?Also the boat would be to wide to transport unless I pull the wheels off.Hank On Thursday, June 15, 2017 4:26 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 16 22:03:37 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 19:03:37 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] initial launch video Message-ID: <20170616190337.677B641B@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 17 18:38:11 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2017 00:38:11 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Picture research U7 and U9 In-Reply-To: <2070612689.3248705.1496800380360@mail.yahoo.com> References: <832001616.3898242.1496783236312.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <832001616.3898242.1496783236312@mail.yahoo.com> <2070612689.3248705.1496800380360@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1497739091268.371408.ccb1bdfbd8e57575b67a671953f11f087a96f315@spica.telekom.de> Hi folks, this video shows from time 1:34 to 1:36 two submarine itn no U7 and U9 on it. Looks like type XXIII but smaller in scale and with some funny windows . Also there is a tail of an aircraft with no. 712 in the background. Any idear were this picture was taken? Can this by the scrap place of a movie studio in the US ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvsYvEpJ-jc vbr Carsten ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 17 22:17:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2017 14:17:53 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Picture research U7 and U9 In-Reply-To: <1497739091268.371408.ccb1bdfbd8e57575b67a671953f11f087a96f315@spica.telekom.de> References: <832001616.3898242.1496783236312.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <832001616.3898242.1496783236312@mail.yahoo.com> <2070612689.3248705.1496800380360@mail.yahoo.com> <1497739091268.371408.ccb1bdfbd8e57575b67a671953f11f087a96f315@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: Carsten, I thought at first Hank's backyard, but they are in a feild in Shanghai China. http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-abandoned-obsolete-submarines-and-airplane-in-junkyard-60913211.html If you really wanted to track them down; they were photographed by Imran Ahmed in 2013. You would have to look him up & ask him. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 18/06/2017, at 10:38 AM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi folks, this video shows from time 1:34 to 1:36 two submarine itn no U7 and U9 on it. > Looks like type XXIII but smaller in scale and with some funny windows . > Also there is a tail of an aircraft with no. 712 in the background. > Any idear were this picture was taken? Can this by the scrap place of a movie studio in the US ? > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvsYvEpJ-jc > > vbr Carsten > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 17 22:41:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2017 14:41:53 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Picture research U7 and U9 In-Reply-To: <1497739091268.371408.ccb1bdfbd8e57575b67a671953f11f087a96f315@spica.telekom.de> References: <832001616.3898242.1496783236312.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <832001616.3898242.1496783236312@mail.yahoo.com> <2070612689.3248705.1496800380360@mail.yahoo.com> <1497739091268.371408.ccb1bdfbd8e57575b67a671953f11f087a96f315@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <3EC54729-6122-4332-9897-BC40FB252FA8@yahoo.com> Carsten, Imran specialises in underwater photography, so it may be helpful if you mention your submarine should you contact him. https://www.facebook.com/pg/IMP.ESCAPEINC/about/?ref=page_internal Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 18/06/2017, at 10:38 AM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi folks, this video shows from time 1:34 to 1:36 two submarine itn no U7 and U9 on it. > Looks like type XXIII but smaller in scale and with some funny windows . > Also there is a tail of an aircraft with no. 712 in the background. > Any idear were this picture was taken? Can this by the scrap place of a movie studio in the US ? > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvsYvEpJ-jc > > vbr Carsten > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 18 20:19:29 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 00:19:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] alternative syntactic foam References: <894862823.963787.1497831569595.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <894862823.963787.1497831569595@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,Just been thinking ?about low cost ways to make foam. ?I am sure at the end of the day, I will make my foam the standard way, but it is still an interesting subject to explore. ?I have learned that microspheres are added to many things, even concrete. ?That got me thinking, if the compressive strength is there, the best product to reinforce the spheres should be the lightest possible material. ?Polypropylene is very light and has a compressive strength of 6,000 psi. ?The fun part about Polypropylene is, it can be recycled from bottle lids etc. ?I don't think it would take to much imagination to build an oven with a mixer inside and a microsphere injection port. ?Polypropylene has a specific gravity in the neighbourhood of .7g\cc that means a light weight foam can be made with microspheres and no macro spheres. ? ?I don't know about the water absorption properties yet.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 18 20:21:01 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 00:21:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Picture research U7 and U9 In-Reply-To: <3EC54729-6122-4332-9897-BC40FB252FA8@yahoo.com> References: <832001616.3898242.1496783236312.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <832001616.3898242.1496783236312@mail.yahoo.com> <2070612689.3248705.1496800380360@mail.yahoo.com> <1497739091268.371408.ccb1bdfbd8e57575b67a671953f11f087a96f315@spica.telekom.de> <3EC54729-6122-4332-9897-BC40FB252FA8@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2105934446.987300.1497831661618@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,You should have been a detective! ?And yes I have an interesting storage yard ;-)Hank On Saturday, June 17, 2017 8:42 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Carsten,Imran specialises in underwater photography, so it may behelpful if you mention your submarine should you contact him.https://www.facebook.com/pg/IMP.ESCAPEINC/about/?ref=page_internalCheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 18/06/2017, at 10:38 AM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Hi folks, this video shows from time 1:34 to 1:36 two submarine? itn no U7 and U9 on it. Looks like type XXIII but smaller in scale and with some funny windows . Also there is a tail of an aircraft with no. 712 in the background. Any idear were this picture was taken? Can this by the scrap place of a movie studio in the US ? ?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvsYvEpJ-jc?vbr Carsten? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 18 21:51:22 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 13:51:22 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] alternative syntactic foam In-Reply-To: <894862823.963787.1497831569595@mail.yahoo.com> References: <894862823.963787.1497831569595.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <894862823.963787.1497831569595@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, have you had a look at this stuff... http://www.ebay.com/itm/MICROSPHERES-GLASS-BUBBLES-LOW-DENSITY-EPOXY-SYNTACTIC-FOAM-FILLER-1-GAL-1-5-KIT-/220528963762 One gallon in volume for $18:72. It says it crushes to 90% of it's volume at 5500 psi. And yes, enjoy a bit of detective work. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 19/06/2017, at 12:19 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > Just been thinking about low cost ways to make foam. I am sure at the end of the day, I will make my foam the standard way, but it is still an interesting subject to explore. I have learned that microspheres are added to many things, even concrete. That got me thinking, if the compressive strength is there, the best product to reinforce the spheres should be the lightest possible material. Polypropylene is very light and has a compressive strength of 6,000 psi. The fun part about Polypropylene is, it can be recycled from bottle lids etc. I don't think it would take to much imagination to build an oven with a mixer inside and a microsphere injection port. Polypropylene has a specific gravity in the neighbourhood of .7g\cc that means a light weight foam can be made with microspheres and no macro spheres. I don't know about the water absorption properties yet. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 19 07:42:32 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 13:42:32 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] alternative syntactic foam In-Reply-To: <894862823.963787.1497831569595@mail.yahoo.com> References: <894862823.963787.1497831569595.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <894862823.963787.1497831569595@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0fca01d2e8f1$23838570$6a8a9050$@nl> Hi Hank, all No foam but a spherical trawlerfloat can be a alternative float. Not expensive and some can go to 1000 m /3000 ft. ! Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 19 juni 2017 2:19 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] alternative syntactic foam Hi All, Just been thinking about low cost ways to make foam. I am sure at the end of the day, I will make my foam the standard way, but it is still an interesting subject to explore. I have learned that microspheres are added to many things, even concrete. That got me thinking, if the compressive strength is there, the best product to reinforce the spheres should be the lightest possible material. Polypropylene is very light and has a compressive strength of 6,000 psi. The fun part about Polypropylene is, it can be recycled from bottle lids etc. I don't think it would take to much imagination to build an oven with a mixer inside and a microsphere injection port. Polypropylene has a specific gravity in the neighbourhood of .7g\cc that means a light weight foam can be made with microspheres and no macro spheres. I don't know about the water absorption properties yet. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 19 07:50:35 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 11:50:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] alternative syntactic foam In-Reply-To: <0fca01d2e8f1$23838570$6a8a9050$@nl> References: <894862823.963787.1497831569595.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <894862823.963787.1497831569595@mail.yahoo.com> <0fca01d2e8f1$23838570$6a8a9050$@nl> Message-ID: <438030828.1279424.1497873035410@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Emile,I have 30 trawl floats on Elementary now, the problem is they do not have the safety margin. ?The floats are inside the MBT.?Hank On Monday, June 19, 2017 5:42 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv1955173842 #yiv1955173842 -- _filtered #yiv1955173842 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv1955173842 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv1955173842 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv1955173842 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv1955173842 #yiv1955173842 p.yiv1955173842MsoNormal, #yiv1955173842 li.yiv1955173842MsoNormal, #yiv1955173842 div.yiv1955173842MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv1955173842 a:link, #yiv1955173842 span.yiv1955173842MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv1955173842 a:visited, #yiv1955173842 span.yiv1955173842MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv1955173842 span.yiv1955173842E-mailStijl17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv1955173842 .yiv1955173842MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv1955173842 {margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}#yiv1955173842 div.yiv1955173842WordSection1 {}#yiv1955173842 Hi Hank, all ?No foam but a spherical trawlerfloat can be a alternative float.Not expensive and some can go to 1000 m /3000 ft. ! ?Br, Emile ?Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 19 juni 2017 2:19 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] alternative syntactic foam ?Hi All,Just been thinking ?about low cost ways to make foam. ?I am sure at the end of the day, I will make my foam the standard way, but it is still an interesting subject to explore. ?I have learned that microspheres are added to many things, even concrete. ?That got me thinking, if the compressive strength is there, the best product to reinforce the spheres should be the lightest possible material. ?Polypropylene is very light and has a compressive strength of 6,000 psi. ?The fun part about Polypropylene is, it can be recycled from bottle lids etc. ?I don't think it would take to much imagination to build an oven with a mixer inside and a microsphere injection port. ?Polypropylene has a specific gravity in the neighbourhood of .7g\cc that means a light weight foam can be made with microspheres and no macro spheres. ? ?I don't know about the water absorption properties yet.Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 19 07:55:03 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 11:55:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] alternative syntactic foam In-Reply-To: References: <894862823.963787.1497831569595.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <894862823.963787.1497831569595@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1653965672.1271847.1497873303992@mail.yahoo.com> Aan,I have been looking at that on?eBay, even just for experimenting. ?Hank On Sunday, June 18, 2017 7:51 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,have you had a look at this stuff...http://www.ebay.com/itm/MICROSPHERES-GLASS-BUBBLES-LOW-DENSITY-EPOXY-SYNTACTIC-FOAM-FILLER-1-GAL-1-5-KIT-/220528963762One gallon in volume for $18:72. It says it crushes to 90% of it's volume at 5500 psi.And yes, enjoy a bit of detective work.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 19/06/2017, at 12:19 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Just been thinking ?about low cost ways to make foam. ?I am sure at the end of the day, I will make my foam the standard way, but it is still an interesting subject to explore. ?I have learned that microspheres are added to many things, even concrete. ?That got me thinking, if the compressive strength is there, the best product to reinforce the spheres should be the lightest possible material. ?Polypropylene is very light and has a compressive strength of 6,000 psi. ?The fun part about Polypropylene is, it can be recycled from bottle lids etc. ?I don't think it would take to much imagination to build an oven with a mixer inside and a microsphere injection port. ?Polypropylene has a specific gravity in the neighbourhood of .7g\cc that means a light weight foam can be made with microspheres and no macro spheres. ? ?I don't know about the water absorption properties yet.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 19 10:44:48 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 07:44:48 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] alternative syntactic foam Message-ID: <20170619074448.A7BF5179@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 19 10:48:19 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:48:19 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] alternative syntactic foam In-Reply-To: <20170619074448.A7BF5179@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20170619074448.A7BF5179@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <101101d2e90b$1755b290$460117b0$@nl> mmm.. should test that. They are made from stiff (reinforced?) plastic and meant to use in deep water. Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 19 juni 2017 16:45 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] alternative syntactic foam Don't the Trawler floats just shrink as they go down? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] alternative syntactic foam Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 11:50:35 +0000 (UTC) Hi Emile, I have 30 trawl floats on Elementary now, the problem is they do not have the safety margin. The floats are inside the MBT. Hank On Monday, June 19, 2017 5:42 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, all No foam but a spherical trawlerfloat can be a alternative float. Not expensive and some can go to 1000 m /3000 ft. ! Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 19 juni 2017 2:19 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] alternative syntactic foam Hi All, Just been thinking about low cost ways to make foam. I am sure at the end of the day, I will make my foam the standard way, but it is still an interesting subject to explore. I have learned that microspheres are added to many things, even concrete. That got me thinking, if the compressive strength is there, the best product to reinforce the spheres should be the lightest possible material. Polypropylene is very light and has a compressive strength of 6,000 psi. The fun part about Polypropylene is, it can be recycled from bottle lids etc. I don't think it would take to much imagination to build an oven with a mixer inside and a microsphere injection port. Polypropylene has a specific gravity in the neighbourhood of .7g\cc that means a light weight foam can be made with microspheres and no macro spheres. I don't know about the water absorption properties yet. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 19 12:52:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: References: <201706110302.v5B32MVY018021@whoweb.com> <1136853766.349592.1497183476526@mail.yahoo.com> <339677088.7307276.1497191076952@mail.yahoo.com> <473275854.7391240.1497204238662@mail.yahoo.com> <1868815476.7556454.1497227303959@mail.yahoo.com> <508132346.7799907.1497267737140@mail.yahoo.com> <804395461.2383978.1497304249201@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <223870824.1523392.1497891176192@mail.yahoo.com> Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi http://teledynebenthos.com/product/flotation_instrument_housings/flotation-glass-spheres Greg From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hank,if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas.Hank On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,are you sure that's right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litreof gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these things.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those are nice, I can see other uses for them. ?If I use gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement.??https://www.bdoutdoors.com/atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective. ?There are of coarse some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns. ?I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard. ?Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous. ?Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles. ?When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark. ?Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\ccHank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam. ?I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable. ?I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving? ?Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin. ?I have no idea what the cost difference would be. ?Maybe the cost is still much better. ?When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part. ?Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres. ?In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance. ?That implies that the true strength comes from the resin. ?Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also. ?Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. ?My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. ?After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. ?This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. ?My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 19 13:21:42 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 10:21:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Message-ID: <20170619102142.67735137@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 19 16:21:44 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 20:21:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <223870824.1523392.1497891176192@mail.yahoo.com> References: <201706110302.v5B32MVY018021@whoweb.com> <1136853766.349592.1497183476526@mail.yahoo.com> <339677088.7307276.1497191076952@mail.yahoo.com> <473275854.7391240.1497204238662@mail.yahoo.com> <1868815476.7556454.1497227303959@mail.yahoo.com> <508132346.7799907.1497267737140@mail.yahoo.com> <804395461.2383978.1497304249201@mail.yahoo.com> <223870824.1523392.1497891176192@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <32111512.1716779.1497903704123@mail.yahoo.com> Hi GuysThe glass spheres are 592 dollars each, I checked, ouch!!!Karl Stanley told me that trawl floats implode just past their rating. ?Trawl floats would be fine if you have the?safety margin, in my case I don't. ?Hank On Monday, June 19, 2017 10:53 AM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi http://teledynebenthos.com/product/flotation_instrument_housings/flotation-glass-spheres Greg From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hank,if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas.Hank On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,are you sure that's right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litreof gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these things.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those are nice, I can see other uses for them. ?If I use gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement.??https://www.bdoutdoors.com/atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective. ?There are of coarse some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns. ?I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard. ?Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous. ?Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles. ?When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark. ?Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\ccHank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam. ?I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable. ?I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving? ?Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin. ?I have no idea what the cost difference would be. ?Maybe the cost is still much better. ?When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part. ?Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres. ?In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance. ?That implies that the true strength comes from the resin. ?Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also. ?Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. ?My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. ?After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. ?This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. ?My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 19 18:06:40 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 10:06:40 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] alternative syntactic foam In-Reply-To: References: <894862823.963787.1497831569595.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <894862823.963787.1497831569595@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I have just looked at some figures on the 3M 5500 psi glass micro spheres on Ebay. They are talking about a 50/50 ratio of spheres to epoxy resin. I don't know if you can use less resin than this. Resin weighs 1.1 grams per cubic centimetre, spheres are .38, so in a 50/50 mix you get .26 gram buoyancy per cubic centimetre, or 260 grams per cubic litre. You need to be 550 lb. buoyant, or 256kg. You would need 100 litres of mix to get this. In a 50/50 mix that would cost 50 x $18:72 = $936 for the spheres & based on a price of $400- for a 16 litres pack of epoxy, ($25 per litre) it would cost 50 x 25 = $1250 for the resin. Total of $2186. You might be able to get the price down buying in bulk. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 19/06/2017, at 1:51 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank,c > have you had a look at this stuff... > http://www.ebay.com/itm/MICROSPHERES-GLASS-BUBBLES-LOW-DENSITY-EPOXY-SYNTACTIC-FOAM-FILLER-1-GAL-1-5-KIT-/220528963762 > One gallon in volume for $18:72. It says it crushes to 90% of it's volume at 5500 psi. > And yes, enjoy a bit of detective work. > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 19/06/2017, at 12:19 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> Just been thinking about low cost ways to make foam. I am sure at the end of the day, I will make my foam the standard way, but it is still an interesting subject to explore. I have learned that microspheres are added to many things, even concrete. That got me thinking, if the compressive strength is there, the best product to reinforce the spheres should be the lightest possible material. Polypropylene is very light and has a compressive strength of 6,000 psi. The fun part about Polypropylene is, it can be recycled from bottle lids etc. I don't think it would take to much imagination to build an oven with a mixer inside and a microsphere injection port. Polypropylene has a specific gravity in the neighbourhood of .7g\cc that means a light weight foam can be made with microspheres and no macro spheres. I don't know about the water absorption properties yet. >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 19 19:05:37 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 23:05:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] alternative syntactic foam In-Reply-To: References: <894862823.963787.1497831569595.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <894862823.963787.1497831569595@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <891611038.908869.1497913537346@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Yes I have been running numbers but with polyester resin witch is a bit less. ?That is pretty darn cheap, pity I wasted 1,100 on trawl floats ;-( ?I will likely spend more to make foam for 12,000 feet for my next sub, Elementary 12000 ? The plan is build elementary 3000 so that I can swap out the occupant sphere with a sphere the same size but rated for 12,000 feet.Hank On Monday, June 19, 2017 4:07 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I have just looked at some figures on the 3M 5500 psi glass micro spheres ?on Ebay.They are talking about a 50/50 ratio of spheres to epoxy resin. I don't know if you canuse less resin than this.Resin weighs 1.1 grams per cubic centimetre, spheres are .38, so in a 50/50 mix you get?.26 gram buoyancy per cubic centimetre, or 260 grams per cubic litre.?You need to be 550 lb. buoyant, or 256kg. You would need 100 litres of mix to get this.In a 50/50 mix that would cost 50 x $18:72 = $936 for the spheres & based on a priceof $400- for a 16 litres pack of epoxy, ($25 per litre) it would cost 50 x 25 = $1250for the resin. Total of $2186.You might be able to get the price down buying in bulk.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 19/06/2017, at 1:51 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,c?have you had a look at this stuff...http://www.ebay.com/itm/MICROSPHERES-GLASS-BUBBLES-LOW-DENSITY-EPOXY-SYNTACTIC-FOAM-FILLER-1-GAL-1-5-KIT-/220528963762One gallon in volume for $18:72. It says it crushes to 90% of it's volume at 5500 psi.And yes, enjoy a bit of detective work.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 19/06/2017, at 12:19 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Just been thinking ?about low cost ways to make foam. ?I am sure at the end of the day, I will make my foam the standard way, but it is still an interesting subject to explore. ?I have learned that microspheres are added to many things, even concrete. ?That got me thinking, if the compressive strength is there, the best product to reinforce the spheres should be the lightest possible material. ?Polypropylene is very light and has a compressive strength of 6,000 psi. ?The fun part about Polypropylene is, it can be recycled from bottle lids etc. ?I don't think it would take to much imagination to build an oven with a mixer inside and a microsphere injection port. ?Polypropylene has a specific gravity in the neighbourhood of .7g\cc that means a light weight foam can be made with microspheres and no macro spheres. ? ?I don't know about the water absorption properties yet.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 19 19:18:33 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 23:18:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] alternative syntactic foam In-Reply-To: <891611038.908869.1497913537346@mail.yahoo.com> References: <894862823.963787.1497831569595.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <894862823.963787.1497831569595@mail.yahoo.com> <891611038.908869.1497913537346@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1186416093.1835818.1497914313310@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I forgot to say thank you for thatHank On Monday, June 19, 2017 5:10 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes I have been running numbers but with polyester resin witch is a bit less. ?That is pretty darn cheap, pity I wasted 1,100 on trawl floats ;-( ?I will likely spend more to make foam for 12,000 feet for my next sub, Elementary 12000 ? The plan is build elementary 3000 so that I can swap out the occupant sphere with a sphere the same size but rated for 12,000 feet.Hank On Monday, June 19, 2017 4:07 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I have just looked at some figures on the 3M 5500 psi glass micro spheres ?on Ebay.They are talking about a 50/50 ratio of spheres to epoxy resin. I don't know if you canuse less resin than this.Resin weighs 1.1 grams per cubic centimetre, spheres are .38, so in a 50/50 mix you get?.26 gram buoyancy per cubic centimetre, or 260 grams per cubic litre.?You need to be 550 lb. buoyant, or 256kg. You would need 100 litres of mix to get this.In a 50/50 mix that would cost 50 x $18:72 = $936 for the spheres & based on a priceof $400- for a 16 litres pack of epoxy, ($25 per litre) it would cost 50 x 25 = $1250for the resin. Total of $2186.You might be able to get the price down buying in bulk.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 19/06/2017, at 1:51 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,c?have you had a look at this stuff...http://www.ebay.com/itm/MICROSPHERES-GLASS-BUBBLES-LOW-DENSITY-EPOXY-SYNTACTIC-FOAM-FILLER-1-GAL-1-5-KIT-/220528963762One gallon in volume for $18:72. It says it crushes to 90% of it's volume at 5500 psi.And yes, enjoy a bit of detective work.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 19/06/2017, at 12:19 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Just been thinking ?about low cost ways to make foam. ?I am sure at the end of the day, I will make my foam the standard way, but it is still an interesting subject to explore. ?I have learned that microspheres are added to many things, even concrete. ?That got me thinking, if the compressive strength is there, the best product to reinforce the spheres should be the lightest possible material. ?Polypropylene is very light and has a compressive strength of 6,000 psi. ?The fun part about Polypropylene is, it can be recycled from bottle lids etc. ?I don't think it would take to much imagination to build an oven with a mixer inside and a microsphere injection port. ?Polypropylene has a specific gravity in the neighbourhood of .7g\cc that means a light weight foam can be made with microspheres and no macro spheres. ? ?I don't know about the water absorption properties yet.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 19 18:33:47 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 10:33:47 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] alternative syntactic foam In-Reply-To: References: <894862823.963787.1497831569595.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <894862823.963787.1497831569595@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, sorry, battery in the calculator needs replacing. You would need 1000 litres of sphere & epoxy mix to get 250kg of buoyancy, so multiply the final price by 10! Yikes, expensive, it is making the gasoline option look good! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 20/06/2017, at 10:06 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > I have just looked at some figures on the 3M 5500 psi glass micro spheres on Ebay. > They are talking about a 50/50 ratio of spheres to epoxy resin. I don't know if you can > use less resin than this. > Resin weighs 1.1 grams per cubic centimetre, spheres are .38, so in a 50/50 mix you get > .26 gram buoyancy per cubic centimetre, or 260 grams per cubic litre. > You need to be 550 lb. buoyant, or 256kg. You would need 100 litres of mix to get this. > In a 50/50 mix that would cost 50 x $18:72 = $936 for the spheres & based on a price > of $400- for a 16 litres pack of epoxy, ($25 per litre) it would cost 50 x 25 = $1250 > for the resin. Total of $2186. > You might be able to get the price down buying in bulk. > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 19/06/2017, at 1:51 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hank,c >> have you had a look at this stuff... >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MICROSPHERES-GLASS-BUBBLES-LOW-DENSITY-EPOXY-SYNTACTIC-FOAM-FILLER-1-GAL-1-5-KIT-/220528963762 >> One gallon in volume for $18:72. It says it crushes to 90% of it's volume at 5500 psi. >> And yes, enjoy a bit of detective work. >> Cheers Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 19/06/2017, at 12:19 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi All, >>> Just been thinking about low cost ways to make foam. I am sure at the end of the day, I will make my foam the standard way, but it is still an interesting subject to explore. I have learned that microspheres are added to many things, even concrete. That got me thinking, if the compressive strength is there, the best product to reinforce the spheres should be the lightest possible material. Polypropylene is very light and has a compressive strength of 6,000 psi. The fun part about Polypropylene is, it can be recycled from bottle lids etc. I don't think it would take to much imagination to build an oven with a mixer inside and a microsphere injection port. Polypropylene has a specific gravity in the neighbourhood of .7g\cc that means a light weight foam can be made with microspheres and no macro spheres. I don't know about the water absorption properties yet. >>> Hank >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 19 19:43:55 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 23:43:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] alternative syntactic foam In-Reply-To: References: <894862823.963787.1497831569595.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <894862823.963787.1497831569595@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <623331573.1850643.1497915835793@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,You forgot to include Macrospheres and epoxy is more money than polyester. ?Your first number is actually pretty close when you make it with Cliff's costs and formula. ?Hank On Monday, June 19, 2017 5:34 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,sorry, battery in the calculator needs replacing.You would need 1000 litres of sphere & epoxy mix to get 250kg of buoyancy,so multiply the final price by 10! Yikes, expensive, it is making the gasoline optionlook good!Alan Sent from my iPad On 20/06/2017, at 10:06 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I have just looked at some figures on the 3M 5500 psi glass micro spheres ?on Ebay.They are talking about a 50/50 ratio of spheres to epoxy resin. I don't know if you canuse less resin than this.Resin weighs 1.1 grams per cubic centimetre, spheres are .38, so in a 50/50 mix you get?.26 gram buoyancy per cubic centimetre, or 260 grams per cubic litre.?You need to be 550 lb. buoyant, or 256kg. You would need 100 litres of mix to get this.In a 50/50 mix that would cost 50 x $18:72 = $936 for the spheres & based on a priceof $400- for a 16 litres pack of epoxy, ($25 per litre) it would cost 50 x 25 = $1250for the resin. Total of $2186.You might be able to get the price down buying in bulk.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 19/06/2017, at 1:51 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,c?have you had a look at this stuff...http://www.ebay.com/itm/MICROSPHERES-GLASS-BUBBLES-LOW-DENSITY-EPOXY-SYNTACTIC-FOAM-FILLER-1-GAL-1-5-KIT-/220528963762One gallon in volume for $18:72. It says it crushes to 90% of it's volume at 5500 psi.And yes, enjoy a bit of detective work.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 19/06/2017, at 12:19 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Just been thinking ?about low cost ways to make foam. ?I am sure at the end of the day, I will make my foam the standard way, but it is still an interesting subject to explore. ?I have learned that microspheres are added to many things, even concrete. ?That got me thinking, if the compressive strength is there, the best product to reinforce the spheres should be the lightest possible material. ?Polypropylene is very light and has a compressive strength of 6,000 psi. ?The fun part about Polypropylene is, it can be recycled from bottle lids etc. ?I don't think it would take to much imagination to build an oven with a mixer inside and a microsphere injection port. ?Polypropylene has a specific gravity in the neighbourhood of .7g\cc that means a light weight foam can be made with microspheres and no macro spheres. ? ?I don't know about the water absorption properties yet.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 20 16:29:13 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 13:29:13 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Message-ID: <20170620132913.C6B06890@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 20 16:31:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 13:31:53 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] alternative syntactic foam Message-ID: <20170620133153.C6B068DB@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 20 18:39:59 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 22:39:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] definition References: <478524513.2704259.1497998399492.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <478524513.2704259.1497998399492@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,What is the difference between compressive strength and compressive modulus?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 20 19:37:34 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 16:37:34 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] definition In-Reply-To: NRtGdyPe7NSRONRtHd5K9G References: <478524513.2704259.1497998399492.ref@mail.yahoo.com> NRtGdyPe7NSRONRtHd5K9G Message-ID: <960cfa8a-0d79-4290-a6db-18363724a65e@email.android.com> Strength is a stress value at which the part fails, typically expressed in psi or MPa. There are two failure strengths typically quoted for a material: The first is yield strength, which is the maximum stress (force per unit area) at which the deformation is entirely elastic (i.e. recoverable). Stress beyond yield can be carried by the material, but it will deform plastically and not return to its original dimension. Within the yield limit, stress vs strain exhibits a linear relationship. Stretch a material twice as far, and you will develop twice as much stress in it etc. The second is the ultimate strength, or the maximum stress that can be developed in a material. If you strain a material beyond its yield point, what you typically see is the end of the linear stress / strain relationship, as the curve flattens to exhibit a slow rise up to the ultimate strength, and then a slow fall beyond that limit as you continue to stretch the material to failure. Modulus is the slope of the linear portion of the curve within the yield point (stress/strain). The modulus is essentially a measure of the stiffness of the material. Modulus has the same units (psi or MPa) as strength, because strain is dimensionless (actually it is length change over original length, as in if I have a 10 cm rod that I stretch 0.5 cm beyond its unstretched length, I have developed 0.05 strain, or 5% strain in the material). Ceramics are high modulus materials, elastomers are low modulus. By convention, most material properties quote the tensile strength values. For materials which vary significantly between tension and compression (or for which the primary strength is in compression, such as concrete), the compressive strengths and modulus will be used. Sean On June 20, 2017 3:39:59 PM PDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi All,What is the difference between compressive strength and >compressive modulus?Hank > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 20 20:24:45 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 00:24:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] definition In-Reply-To: <960cfa8a-0d79-4290-a6db-18363724a65e@email.android.com> References: <478524513.2704259.1497998399492.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <960cfa8a-0d79-4290-a6db-18363724a65e@email.android.com> Message-ID: <632712476.7698.1498004685336@mail.yahoo.com> Thank you Sean,I am looking at a buoyant material (resin with spheres .67g\cc) ?and it says compressive strength 3,070 psi ?and also says Compressive Modulus 53,700 psi. ?I assume for my needs, I am only interested in the 3,070 psi fur buoyancy material under compression. ?Of coarse I will pressure test a sample?before diving in.Hank On Tuesday, June 20, 2017 5:37 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Strength is a stress value at which the part fails, typically expressed in psi or MPa. There are two failure strengths typically quoted for a material: The first is yield strength, which is the maximum stress (force per unit area) at which the deformation is entirely elastic (i.e. recoverable). Stress beyond yield can be carried by the material, but it will deform plastically and not return to its original dimension. Within the yield limit, stress vs strain exhibits a linear relationship. Stretch a material twice as far, and you will develop twice as much stress in it etc. The second is the ultimate strength, or the maximum stress that can be developed in a material. If you strain a material beyond its yield point, what you typically see is the end of the linear stress? / strain relationship, as the curve flattens to exhibit a slow rise up to the ultimate strength, and then a slow fall beyond that limit as you continue to stretch the material to failure. Modulus is the slope of the linear portion of the curve within the yield point (stress/strain).? The modulus is essentially a measure of the stiffness of the material. Modulus has the same units (psi or MPa) as strength, because strain is dimensionless (actually it is length change over original length, as in if I have a 10 cm rod that I stretch 0.5 cm beyond its unstretched length, I have developed 0.05 strain, or 5% strain in the material). Ceramics are high modulus materials, elastomers are low modulus.By convention, most material properties quote the tensile strength values. For materials which vary significantly between tension and compression (or for which the primary strength is in compression, such as concrete), the compressive strengths and modulus will be used.Sean On June 20, 2017 3:39:59 PM PDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,What is the difference between compressive strength and compressive modulus?Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 20 20:59:46 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 12:59:46 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber Message-ID: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside my pressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container & the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about an inch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank to pressurise the unit up to 3000psi. Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container & the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid. Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my test chamber. (Aussie Steve's idea) Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 20 21:05:48 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 01:05:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber In-Reply-To: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> References: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <58653506.2793626.1498007148348@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Both will work, ?slick idea!Hank On Tuesday, June 20, 2017 7:00 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside my pressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container & the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about an inch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank to pressurise the unit up to 3000psi. Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container & the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid. Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my test chamber. (Aussie Steve's idea) Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 20 21:21:08 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 13:21:08 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber In-Reply-To: <58653506.2793626.1498007148348@mail.yahoo.com> References: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> <58653506.2793626.1498007148348@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <31FF59C2-9B09-4937-8E3D-A6B7A97469B2@yahoo.com> Thanks Hank, Alan Sent from my iPad > On 21/06/2017, at 1:05 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > Both will work, slick idea! > Hank > > > On Tuesday, June 20, 2017 7:00 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside my > pressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container > & the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about an > inch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank to > pressurise the unit up to 3000psi. > Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container & > the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid. > Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my test > chamber. (Aussie Steve's idea) > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 20 21:24:18 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 18:24:18 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber Message-ID: <1606.95871.bm@smtp107.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, How about using food grade mineral oil. That way if you have a leak, you have no toxic worries. Keith T. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/20/17 5:59 PM (GMT-08:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside my pressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container & the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about an inch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank to pressurise the unit up to 3000psi. Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container & the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid. Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my test chamber. (Aussie Steve's idea) Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 20 22:23:10 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 19:23:10 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] definition In-Reply-To: NTWmdYu6Kx0TtNTWndurDS References: <478524513.2704259.1497998399492.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <960cfa8a-0d79-4290-a6db-18363724a65e@email.android.com> NTWmdYu6Kx0TtNTWndurDS Message-ID: Those properties would appear to be for the composite at large. E = sigma / epsilon Where E is the Modulus of Elasticity (also known as Young's Modulus), sigma is the applied stress, and epsilon is the resultant strain. Compressive strength is given because presumably the material, like concrete, should not be loaded in tension. 3070 psi is likely to be the compressive yield strength of the composite at large (But could be e.g. the buckling strength of the spheres as a limiting factor). >From the stress / strain relationship given by the listed modulus, you can calculate the maximum compressive strain that you could subject it to before failure at 3070. This is why strain gauges are used to characterize material and part performance in the field. You can draw a part in CAD, run a FEA simulation to predict the location of the greatest stress and its value, and then gauge it in the field to confirm the model. Sean On June 20, 2017 5:24:45 PM PDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Thank you Sean,I am looking at a buoyant material (resin with spheres >.67g\cc) ?and it says compressive strength 3,070 psi ?and also says >Compressive Modulus 53,700 psi. ?I assume for my needs, I am only >interested in the 3,070 psi fur buoyancy material under compression. >?Of coarse I will pressure test a sample?before diving in.Hank > >On Tuesday, June 20, 2017 5:37 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Strength is a stress value at which the part fails, typically expressed >in psi or MPa. There are two failure strengths typically quoted for a >material: The first is yield strength, which is the maximum stress >(force per unit area) at which the deformation is entirely elastic >(i.e. recoverable). Stress beyond yield can be carried by the material, >but it will deform plastically and not return to its original >dimension. Within the yield limit, stress vs strain exhibits a linear >relationship. Stretch a material twice as far, and you will develop >twice as much stress in it etc. The second is the ultimate strength, or >the maximum stress that can be developed in a material. If you strain a >material beyond its yield point, what you typically see is the end of >the linear stress? / strain relationship, as the curve flattens to >exhibit a slow rise up to the ultimate strength, and then a slow fall >beyond that limit as you continue to stretch the material to failure. >Modulus is the slope of the linear portion of the curve within the >yield point (stress/strain).? The modulus is essentially a measure of >the stiffness of the material. Modulus has the same units (psi or MPa) >as strength, because strain is dimensionless (actually it is length >change over original length, as in if I have a 10 cm rod that I stretch >0.5 cm beyond its unstretched length, I have developed 0.05 strain, or >5% strain in the material). Ceramics are high modulus materials, >elastomers are low modulus.By convention, most material properties >quote the tensile strength values. For materials which vary >significantly between tension and compression (or for which the primary >strength is in compression, such as concrete), the compressive >strengths and modulus will be used.Sean > > >On June 20, 2017 3:39:59 PM PDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >Hi All,What is the difference between compressive strength and >compressive modulus?Hank >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 20 23:15:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 15:15:53 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber In-Reply-To: <1606.95871.bm@smtp107.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1606.95871.bm@smtp107.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <955D6588-09A0-4DD9-8BFA-DEB7EA50E217@yahoo.com> Hi Keith, thanks for the thought. I'll only need 4&1/2 litres & it can sit in the pressure chamber permanently. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 21/06/2017, at 1:24 PM, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > > How about using food grade mineral oil. That way if you have a leak, you have no toxic worries. > > Keith T. > > > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 6/20/17 5:59 PM (GMT-08:00) > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber > > I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside my > pressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container > & the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about an > inch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank to > pressurise the unit up to 3000psi. > Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container & > the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid. > Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my test > chamber. (Aussie Steve's idea) > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 20 23:33:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 03:33:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber In-Reply-To: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> References: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1553197792.120504.1498016023457@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, Pressure testing that high needs to be done with liquid not gas.?High pressure?air is VERY dangerous. A pressure washer pump using water would be a safer choice. Greg From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:01 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside my pressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container & the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about an inch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank to pressurise the unit up to 3000psi. Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container & the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid. Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my test chamber. (Aussie Steve's idea) Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 21 00:28:07 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 16:28:07 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber In-Reply-To: <1553197792.120504.1498016023457@mail.yahoo.com> References: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> <1553197792.120504.1498016023457@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <058d01d2ea46$ca75e520$5f61af60$@gmail.com> Alan, Never pressurise oil with air to those pressures. An explosion waiting to happen. Oxygen partial pressures!! If you want to do it use nitrogen. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 21 June 2017 3:34 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber Alan, Pressure testing that high needs to be done with liquid not gas. High pressure air is VERY dangerous. A pressure washer pump using water would be a safer choice. Greg _____ From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:01 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside my pressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container & the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about an inch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank to pressurise the unit up to 3000psi. Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container & the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid. Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my test chamber. (Aussie Steve's idea) Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Virus-free. www.avast.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 21 01:58:00 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 17:58:00 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber In-Reply-To: <1553197792.120504.1498016023457@mail.yahoo.com> References: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> <1553197792.120504.1498016023457@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9C9802E6-97F9-46D1-A74E-56D970A01434@yahoo.com> Thanks Greg & Hugh, there was a bit of doubt in my mind about it so mentioned my intended process. I have just googled accumulators in hydraulic systems & the danger of high pressure air! Yikes just as well I've got you guys looking out for me. What about air from the scuba tank pressurising water? I can get all the air out of the test chamber apart from the air in the line pressurising it! Other than that I have done some previous tests with the water blaster & may have to suffice with it's pressure! Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 21/06/2017, at 3:33 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > > Pressure testing that high needs to be done with liquid not gas. High pressure air is VERY dangerous. A pressure washer pump using water would be a safer choice. > > Greg > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:01 PM > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber > > I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside my > pressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container > & the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about an > inch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank to > pressurise the unit up to 3000psi. > Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container & > the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid. > Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my test > chamber. (Aussie Steve's idea) > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 21 03:40:20 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 17:40:20 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber In-Reply-To: <058d01d2ea46$ca75e520$5f61af60$@gmail.com> References: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> <1553197792.120504.1498016023457@mail.yahoo.com> <058d01d2ea46$ca75e520$5f61af60$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Hugh & Alan, Good point to consider, but it would depend on the flashpoint of the oil. SCUBA compressors do the exact combination of pressure/air/oil and don't explode. Diesel engines do too - sort of, anyway. Mineral oil designed for compressors would be a good option although pricey (AU$200 for 20L recently). Shell Corena P150 mineral oil is what I use. High pressure air is a mechanical hazard to be considered in and of itself. I'd highly recommend installing a relief valve (or device) on any test chamber or other vessel. Cheers, Steve On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alan, > > Never pressurise oil with air to those pressures. An explosion waiting to > happen. Oxygen partial pressures!! > > If you want to do it use nitrogen. > > Hugh > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Wednesday, 21 June 2017 3:34 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber > > > > Alan, > > > > Pressure testing that high needs to be done with liquid not gas. High > pressure air is VERY dangerous. A pressure washer pump using water would be > a safer choice. > > > > Greg > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Alan via Personal_Submersibles > *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:01 PM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber > > > > I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside my > > pressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container > > & the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about an > > inch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank to > > pressurise the unit up to 3000psi. > > Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container & > > the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid. > > Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my test > > chamber. (Aussie Steve's idea) > > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 21 04:40:37 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Beram Mahmoud via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:40:37 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber In-Reply-To: References: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> <1553197792.120504.1498016023457@mail.yahoo.com> <058d01d2ea46$ca75e520$5f61af60$@gmail.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 21 06:06:16 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:06:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] definition In-Reply-To: References: <478524513.2704259.1497998399492.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <960cfa8a-0d79-4290-a6db-18363724a65e@email.android.com> Message-ID: <987380185.302056.1498039576897@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Sean,Thanks' that is great.Hank On Tuesday, June 20, 2017 8:23 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Those properties would appear to be for the composite at large. E = sigma / epsilonWhere E is the Modulus of Elasticity (also known as Young's Modulus), sigma is the applied stress, and epsilon is the resultant strain.Compressive strength is given because presumably the material, like concrete, should not be loaded in tension. 3070 psi is likely to be the compressive yield strength of the composite at large (But could be e.g. the buckling strength of the spheres as a limiting factor).From the stress / strain relationship given by the listed modulus, you can calculate the maximum compressive strain that you could subject it to before failure at 3070.This is why strain gauges are used to characterize material and part performance in the field. You can draw a part in CAD, run a FEA simulation to predict the location of the greatest stress and its value, and then gauge it in the field to confirm the model.Sean On June 20, 2017 5:24:45 PM PDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thank you Sean,I am looking at a buoyant material (resin with spheres .67g\cc) ?and it says compressive strength 3,070 psi ?and also says Compressive Modulus 53,700 psi. ?I assume for my needs, I am only interested in the 3,070 psi fur buoyancy material under compression. ?Of coarse I will pressure test a sample?before diving in.Hank On Tuesday, June 20, 2017 5:37 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Strength is a stress value at which the part fails, typically expressed in psi or MPa. There are two failure strengths typically quoted for a material: The first is yield strength, which is the maximum stress (force per unit area) at which the deformation is entirely elastic (i.e. recoverable). Stress beyond yield can be carried by the material, but it will deform plastically and not return to its original dimension. Within the yield limit, stress vs strain exhibits a linear relationship. Stretch a material twice as far, and you will develop twice as much stress in it etc. The second is the ultimate strength, or the maximum stress that can be developed in a material. If you strain a material beyond its yield point, what you typically see is the end of the linear stress? / strain relationship, as the curve flattens to exhibit a slow rise up to the ultimate strength, and then a slow fall beyond that limit as you continue to stretch the material to failure. Modulus is the slope of the linear portion of the curve within the yield point (stress/strain).? The modulus is essentially a measure of the stiffness of the material. Modulus has the same units (psi or MPa) as strength, because strain is dimensionless (actually it is length change over original length, as in if I have a 10 cm rod that I stretch 0.5 cm beyond its unstretched length, I have developed 0.05 strain, or 5% strain in the material). Ceramics are high modulus materials, elastomers are low modulus.By convention, most material properties quote the tensile strength values. For materials which vary significantly between tension and compression (or for which the primary strength is in compression, such as concrete), the compressive strengths and modulus will be used.Sean On June 20, 2017 3:39:59 PM PDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,What is the difference between compressive strength and compressive modulus?Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 21 06:22:39 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:22:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber In-Reply-To: <9C9802E6-97F9-46D1-A74E-56D970A01434@yahoo.com> References: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> <1553197792.120504.1498016023457@mail.yahoo.com> <9C9802E6-97F9-46D1-A74E-56D970A01434@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <34189536.3097416.1498040559795@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, The danger is actually twofold- One is O2 pp as Hugh said, but the other is that gases (like air) air compressible. They store up lots of energy that is released violently if there is a rupture. That's why hydro testing of scuba tanks is done with the tanks filled with water in a chamber filled with water. Even with water it is still dangerous. A well known submarine building company?in Florida once had a test chamber blow and it took out the rear corner of their cinderblock building. Greg From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 1:59 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber Thanks Greg & Hugh,there was a bit of doubt in my mind about it so mentioned myintended process. I have just googled accumulators in hydraulic systems& the danger of high pressure air! Yikes just as well I've got you guyslooking out for me.What about air from the scuba tank pressurising water?I can get all the air out of the test chamber apart from the air inthe line pressurising it!Other than that I have done some previous tests with the water blaster& may have to suffice with it's pressure!Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 21/06/2017, at 3:33 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, Pressure testing that high needs to be done with liquid not gas.?High pressure?air is VERY dangerous. A pressure washer pump using water would be a safer choice. Greg From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:01 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside my pressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container & the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about an inch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank to pressurise the unit up to 3000psi. Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container & the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid. Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my test chamber. (Aussie Steve's idea) Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 21 06:27:03 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:27:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber In-Reply-To: References: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> <1553197792.120504.1498016023457@mail.yahoo.com> <058d01d2ea46$ca75e520$5f61af60$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1001774499.3055714.1498040823952@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I wondered about the oil under such pressure behind air ?also but then thought of situations in real life where this happens. ?A hydraulic system can very easily have an air pocket until it works itself out. ?For instance when you change a cylinder it takes a bit of time to work the air out and it is under full pressure and in many cases higher than 3,000 psi. ?My concern with what you described is the volume of air at the top of the chamber, but your your chamber is pretty darn bullet proof. ?I use air to pressurize my chambers with water and figure the volume of air in the 36 inch long 1\4 ?dia hose is not going to amount to anything. ?I always have a barrier between me and the chamber, but my chamber is home made. ?I am not sure why you want all the mess with oil, can't you just drain it and wipe it down with WD-40. ?It is a clever idea but I see a big mess to clean up.?Hank On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 2:40 AM, Beram Mahmoud via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Hello,?well why not using the idea of hydroforming : http://www.colinfurze.com/hydroforming.htmlUse a presssure washer with 200 bar and you got your 2900 psi...By doing so you have no issue with expanding gases.?Best regards?BeramGesendet:?Mittwoch, 21. Juni 2017 um 09:40 Uhr Von:?"Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles" An:?"Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Betreff:?Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test ChamberHi Hugh & Alan,Good point to consider, but it would depend on the flashpoint of the oil.? SCUBA compressors?do the exact combination of pressure/air/oil and don't explode.? Diesel engines?do too - sort of, anyway.? Mineral oil designed for compressors would be a good option although pricey (AU$200 for 20L recently).?Shell Corena P150 mineral oil is what I use.?High pressure air is a mechanical hazard to be considered in and of itself.? I'd highly recommend installing a relief valve (or device)?on any test chamber or other vessel.?Cheers,Steve?On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Never pressurise oil with air to those pressures.? An explosion waiting to happen.? Oxygen partial pressures!!If you want to do it use nitrogen.Hugh?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 21 June 2017 3:34 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber?Alan,?Pressure testing that high needs to be done with liquid not gas.?High pressure?air is VERY dangerous. A pressure washer pump using water would be a safer choice.?Greg?From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:01 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber?I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside mypressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container& the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about aninch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank topressurise the unit up to 3000psi.Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container &the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid.Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my testchamber. (Aussie Steve's idea)Cheers Alan?Sent from my iPad_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles?? | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 21 06:49:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 22:49:50 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber In-Reply-To: <1001774499.3055714.1498040823952@mail.yahoo.com> References: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> <1553197792.120504.1498016023457@mail.yahoo.com> <058d01d2ea46$ca75e520$5f61af60$@gmail.com> <1001774499.3055714.1498040823952@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5500AC5F-EF8C-48B8-87F6-6CC1E16AEF1E@yahoo.com> Hank, I want to test my lights etc in water, but didn't want the water rusting out the inside of the chamber. I already have a bit of rust right where the o- ring seals. So I have an inner sleeve or bucket & fill this with water, & the gap between it & the wall with oil. (about 4 litres) The idea was for the oil to be always in there. I will now just go back to my water blaster & settle for a lower pressure test. I think I get about 1000psi. The chamber was built by a hydraulics firm & tested with oil to 3000psi. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 21/06/2017, at 10:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I wondered about the oil under such pressure behind air also but then thought of situations in real life where this happens. A hydraulic system can very easily have an air pocket until it works itself out. For instance when you change a cylinder it takes a bit of time to work the air out and it is under full pressure and in many cases higher than 3,000 psi. My concern with what you described is the volume of air at the top of the chamber, but your your chamber is pretty darn bullet proof. I use air to pressurize my chambers with water and figure the volume of air in the 36 inch long 1\4 dia hose is not going to amount to anything. I always have a barrier between me and the chamber, but my chamber is home made. I am not sure why you want all the mess with oil, can't you just drain it and wipe it down with WD-40. It is a clever idea but I see a big mess to clean up. > Hank > > > On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 2:40 AM, Beram Mahmoud via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Hello, > > well why not using the idea of hydroforming : > http://www.colinfurze.com/hydroforming.html > Use a presssure washer with 200 bar and you got your 2900 psi... > By doing so you have no issue with expanding gases. > > Best regards > > Beram > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. Juni 2017 um 09:40 Uhr > Von: "Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles" > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber > Hi Hugh & Alan, > Good point to consider, but it would depend on the flashpoint of the oil. SCUBA compressors do the exact combination of pressure/air/oil and don't explode. Diesel engines do too - sort of, anyway. Mineral oil designed for compressors would be a good option although pricey (AU$200 for 20L recently). Shell Corena P150 mineral oil is what I use. > > High pressure air is a mechanical hazard to be considered in and of itself. I'd highly recommend installing a relief valve (or device) on any test chamber or other vessel. > > Cheers, > Steve > > On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Alan, > Never pressurise oil with air to those pressures. An explosion waiting to happen. Oxygen partial pressures!! > If you want to do it use nitrogen. > Hugh > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Wednesday, 21 June 2017 3:34 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber > > Alan, > > Pressure testing that high needs to be done with liquid not gas. High pressure air is VERY dangerous. A pressure washer pump using water would be a safer choice. > > Greg > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:01 PM > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber > > I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside my > pressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container > & the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about an > inch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank to > pressurise the unit up to 3000psi. > Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container & > the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid. > Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my test > chamber. (Aussie Steve's idea) > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 21 06:54:45 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 22:54:45 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber In-Reply-To: References: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> <1553197792.120504.1498016023457@mail.yahoo.com> <058d01d2ea46$ca75e520$5f61af60$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks Steve. I am getting nervous now. Think I'll keep the scuba tanks for diving & just fill with water & pressurise from a pump. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 21/06/2017, at 7:40 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Hugh & Alan, > Good point to consider, but it would depend on the flashpoint of the oil. SCUBA compressors do the exact combination of pressure/air/oil and don't explode. Diesel engines do too - sort of, anyway. Mineral oil designed for compressors would be a good option although pricey (AU$200 for 20L recently). Shell Corena P150 mineral oil is what I use. > > High pressure air is a mechanical hazard to be considered in and of itself. I'd highly recommend installing a relief valve (or device) on any test chamber or other vessel. > > Cheers, > Steve > >> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alan, >> >> Never pressurise oil with air to those pressures. An explosion waiting to happen. Oxygen partial pressures!! >> >> If you want to do it use nitrogen. >> >> Hugh >> >> >> >> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Wednesday, 21 June 2017 3:34 PM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber >> >> >> >> Alan, >> >> >> >> Pressure testing that high needs to be done with liquid not gas. High pressure air is VERY dangerous. A pressure washer pump using water would be a safer choice. >> >> >> >> Greg >> >> >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:01 PM >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber >> >> >> >> I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside my >> >> pressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container >> >> & the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about an >> >> inch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank to >> >> pressurise the unit up to 3000psi. >> >> Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container & >> >> the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid. >> >> Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my test >> >> chamber. (Aussie Steve's idea) >> >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Virus-free. www.avast.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 21 06:56:36 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 22:56:36 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber In-Reply-To: References: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> <1553197792.120504.1498016023457@mail.yahoo.com> <058d01d2ea46$ca75e520$5f61af60$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <78D0EA77-837F-433D-8F01-4F7A3CC53BEE@yahoo.com> Beram, that was interesting, I have seen large stainless balls formed with water pressure. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 21/06/2017, at 8:40 PM, Beram Mahmoud via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hello, > > well why not using the idea of hydroforming : > http://www.colinfurze.com/hydroforming.html > Use a presssure washer with 200 bar and you got your 2900 psi... > By doing so you have no issue with expanding gases. > > Best regards > > Beram > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. Juni 2017 um 09:40 Uhr > Von: "Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles" > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber > Hi Hugh & Alan, > Good point to consider, but it would depend on the flashpoint of the oil. SCUBA compressors do the exact combination of pressure/air/oil and don't explode. Diesel engines do too - sort of, anyway. Mineral oil designed for compressors would be a good option although pricey (AU$200 for 20L recently). Shell Corena P150 mineral oil is what I use. > > High pressure air is a mechanical hazard to be considered in and of itself. I'd highly recommend installing a relief valve (or device) on any test chamber or other vessel. > > Cheers, > Steve > >> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alan, >> >> Never pressurise oil with air to those pressures. An explosion waiting to happen. Oxygen partial pressures!! >> >> If you want to do it use nitrogen. >> >> Hugh >> >> >> >> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Wednesday, 21 June 2017 3:34 PM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber >> >> >> >> Alan, >> >> >> >> Pressure testing that high needs to be done with liquid not gas. High pressure air is VERY dangerous. A pressure washer pump using water would be a safer choice. >> >> >> >> Greg >> >> >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:01 PM >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber >> >> >> >> I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside my >> >> pressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container >> >> & the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about an >> >> inch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank to >> >> pressurise the unit up to 3000psi. >> >> Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container & >> >> the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid. >> >> Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my test >> >> chamber. (Aussie Steve's idea) >> >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Virus-free. www.avast.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 21 07:04:31 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 23:04:31 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber In-Reply-To: <34189536.3097416.1498040559795@mail.yahoo.com> References: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> <1553197792.120504.1498016023457@mail.yahoo.com> <9C9802E6-97F9-46D1-A74E-56D970A01434@yahoo.com> <34189536.3097416.1498040559795@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Greg, I was trying to limit the air in the chamber, & would have had about an inch at the top. But now I'll keep right away from it. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 21/06/2017, at 10:22 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > > The danger is actually twofold- One is O2 pp as Hugh said, but the other is that gases (like air) air compressible. They store up lots of energy that is released violently if there is a rupture. That's why hydro testing of scuba tanks is done with the tanks filled with water in a chamber filled with water. > Even with water it is still dangerous. A well known submarine building company in Florida once had a test chamber blow and it took out the rear corner of their cinderblock building. > > Greg > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 1:59 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber > > Thanks Greg & Hugh, > there was a bit of doubt in my mind about it so mentioned my > intended process. I have just googled accumulators in hydraulic systems > & the danger of high pressure air! Yikes just as well I've got you guys > looking out for me. > What about air from the scuba tank pressurising water? > I can get all the air out of the test chamber apart from the air in > the line pressurising it! > Other than that I have done some previous tests with the water blaster > & may have to suffice with it's pressure! > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 21/06/2017, at 3:33 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, >> >> Pressure testing that high needs to be done with liquid not gas. High pressure air is VERY dangerous. A pressure washer pump using water would be a safer choice. >> >> Greg >> >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:01 PM >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber >> >> I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside my >> pressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container >> & the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about an >> inch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank to >> pressurise the unit up to 3000psi. >> Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container & >> the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid. >> Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my test >> chamber. (Aussie Steve's idea) >> Cheers Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> Virus-free. www.avast.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 21 10:10:05 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:10:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bathtub submarine References: <569793321.5878124.1498054205264.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <569793321.5878124.1498054205264@mail.yahoo.com> Dear PsubbersI found this funny video of a submarine made with some bathtubes. There are several videos. As it seem Germany has a lot of submarine fans.Here the video:WASSEREINBRUCH in 3m Tiefe! | Unser BADEWANNEN U-BOOT #4Best wishesJuergen | | | | | | | | | | | WASSEREINBRUCH in 3m Tiefe! | Unser BADEWANNEN U-BOOT #4 Die Elektrik ist eingebaut - alles ist fertig aber etwas klappt nicht ganz wie es soll... Aktuelles immer auf In... | | | | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 21 10:30:28 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 16:30:28 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bathtub submarine In-Reply-To: <569793321.5878124.1498054205264@mail.yahoo.com> References: <569793321.5878124.1498054205264.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <569793321.5878124.1498054205264@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <120f01d2ea9a$ee287e20$ca797a60$@nl> You were first with sharing it? They must have been looking in our group. Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 21 juni 2017 16:10 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bathtub submarine Dear Psubbers I found this funny video of a submarine made with some bathtubes. There are several videos. As it seem Germany has a lot of submarine fans. Here the video: WASSEREINBRUCH in 3m Tiefe! | Unser BADEWANNEN U-BOOT #4 Best wishes Juergen Tekstvak: WASSEREINBRUCH in 3m Tiefe! | Unser BADEWANNEN U-BOOT #4 Die Elektrik ist eingebaut - alles ist fertig aber etwas klappt nicht ganz wie es soll... Aktuelles immer auf In... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16742 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 810 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 21 16:48:13 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 08:48:13 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bathtub submarine In-Reply-To: <569793321.5878124.1498054205264@mail.yahoo.com> References: <569793321.5878124.1498054205264.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <569793321.5878124.1498054205264@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Juergen, it looks like it is a 1 atm bath tub, not ambient! I can't speak German so the dialogue may confirm it. If it is 1 atm I wouldn't like to see it any deeper than that! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 22/06/2017, at 2:10 AM, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Dear Psubbers > I found this funny video of a submarine made with some bathtubes. There are several videos. As it seem Germany has a lot of submarine fans. > Here the video: > WASSEREINBRUCH in 3m Tiefe! | Unser BADEWANNEN U-BOOT #4 > Best wishes > Juergen > > > WASSEREINBRUCH in 3m Tiefe! | Unser BADEWANNEN U-BOOT #4 > Die Elektrik ist eingebaut - alles ist fertig aber etwas klappt nicht ganz wie es soll... Aktuelles immer auf In... > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 21 17:11:28 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 21:11:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bathtub submarine In-Reply-To: References: <569793321.5878124.1498054205264.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <569793321.5878124.1498054205264@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56002177.3545650.1498079488848@mail.yahoo.com> Hey these kids are?awesome!! ?they built a submarine the dives !Hank On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 2:48 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Juergen,it looks like it is a 1 atm bath tub, not ambient! I can't speak Germanso the dialogue may confirm it. If it is 1 atm I wouldn't like to see it anydeeper than that!Alan Sent from my iPad On 22/06/2017, at 2:10 AM, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Dear PsubbersI found this funny video of a submarine made with some bathtubes. There are several videos. As it seem Germany has a lot of submarine fans.Here the video:WASSEREINBRUCH in 3m Tiefe! | Unser BADEWANNEN U-BOOT #4Best wishesJuergen | | | | | | | | | | | WASSEREINBRUCH in 3m Tiefe! | Unser BADEWANNEN U-BOOT #4 Die Elektrik ist eingebaut - alles ist fertig aber etwas klappt nicht ganz wie es soll... Aktuelles immer auf In... | | | | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 21 17:29:38 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 21:29:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bathtub submarine In-Reply-To: <56002177.3545650.1498079488848@mail.yahoo.com> References: <569793321.5878124.1498054205264.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <569793321.5878124.1498054205264@mail.yahoo.com> <56002177.3545650.1498079488848@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <588241546.3668373.1498080578539@mail.yahoo.com> I admire anyone that builds something that goes underwater! Less JIVE, more DIVE! From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bathtub submarine Hey these kids are?awesome!! ?they built a submarine the dives !Hank On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 2:48 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Juergen,it looks like it is a 1 atm bath tub, not ambient! I can't speak Germanso the dialogue may confirm it. If it is 1 atm I wouldn't like to see it anydeeper than that!Alan Sent from my iPad On 22/06/2017, at 2:10 AM, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Dear PsubbersI found this funny video of a submarine made with some bathtubes. There are several videos. As it seem Germany has a lot of submarine fans.Here the video:WASSEREINBRUCH in 3m Tiefe! | Unser BADEWANNEN U-BOOT #4Best wishesJuergen | | | | | | | | | | | WASSEREINBRUCH in 3m Tiefe! | Unser BADEWANNEN U-BOOT #4 Die Elektrik ist eingebaut - alles ist fertig aber etwas klappt nicht ganz wie es soll... Aktuelles immer auf In... | | | | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 21 19:15:55 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 11:15:55 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber In-Reply-To: <9C9802E6-97F9-46D1-A74E-56D970A01434@yahoo.com> References: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> <1553197792.120504.1498016023457@mail.yahoo.com> <9C9802E6-97F9-46D1-A74E-56D970A01434@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <064901d2eae4$58929450$09b7bcf0$@gmail.com> Alan, We have a pressure tester that goes up to 40,000 psi. If you need to do a high pressure test we can assist. We had an explosion with a 1? line that was pressurised with 3,500 psi air but there was oil left in the line after hydrotesting with oil. The explosion blew out the side of the shed and reached an estimated 25,000 psi in the pipes which ended up looking like Spaghetti. I had explained in detail to the guy who did the fitting of the pipes that everything had to be taken apart after the hydrotest and cleaned using solvent, then soapy water etc. as well as telling him stories of explosions. The guy, an aircraft engineer, did not do it properly and left oil in a branch tube, and I did not do a check on it. Very lucky my son did not get killed as he opened the valve doing tests. These things do not just go pop when they fail and this forum needs to hear of these dangers. The explosion was heard all round Clevedon. That was our first accident of that nature in 40 years of high pressure involvement. We only use water now for testing and make sure there is no air present. We did have another incident when we hired out our tester to another company who tested a tank to 1500 psi and the sight glass was held in with a very fine thread. The sight glass went through the roof iron along with the fittings and we never found the parts. The inspector had looked in the sight glass about 20 seconds before it let go. If you are using tube fittings always disassemble after swaging and check the ferrules are in the right way and that a proper joint has been achieved. There are some fittings which are copies and not up to the job. We had issues with ?DK-lok? (from Korea) with NPT threads where the taper was ? the required taper but the thread gauge said it was OK. They were also not full form threads. Also had some fittings called ?Tubefit? from I don?t know where and they were poor copies of ?Swagelok?. We use SSP fittings out of USA which are fully interchangeable with Swagelok but in my opinion they are better quality. Air from a scuba tank over water is OK but make sure you have a concrete wall between you and the thing to be tested. Also you should have an excess flow valve in the line. You can get those from Swagelok etc. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 21 June 2017 5:58 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber Thanks Greg & Hugh, there was a bit of doubt in my mind about it so mentioned my intended process. I have just googled accumulators in hydraulic systems & the danger of high pressure air! Yikes just as well I've got you guys looking out for me. What about air from the scuba tank pressurising water? I can get all the air out of the test chamber apart from the air in the line pressurising it! Other than that I have done some previous tests with the water blaster & may have to suffice with it's pressure! Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 21/06/2017, at 3:33 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, Pressure testing that high needs to be done with liquid not gas. High pressure air is VERY dangerous. A pressure washer pump using water would be a safer choice. Greg _____ From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:01 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside my pressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container & the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about an inch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank to pressurise the unit up to 3000psi. Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container & the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid. Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my test chamber. (Aussie Steve's idea) Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Virus-free. www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 21 20:52:28 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 00:52:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] foam testing References: <1802254835.926241.1498092748305.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1802254835.926241.1498092748305@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,When I ?start making my foam, will I need to test every piece? ?I assume being home made it should be? ?There is no real benefit to having large pieces, or is there? ?maybe for mounting. ?I better start looking for a giant hydraulic cylinder to convert into a chamber. ?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 21 20:56:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 00:56:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Making a little headway In-Reply-To: <843048991.4180376.1497630365108@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20170615194339.A7C36FC3@m0117164.ppops.net> <843048991.4180376.1497630365108@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <136915671.3781516.1498093010648@mail.yahoo.com> My son helped me remove the ballast tanks and decking from the sub today in preparation for a new paint job. It's nice to be renovating the sub after an 8 year hiatus. All new domes and other viewports have been fabricated. New coms and thrusters too. Looking forward to diving again late summer. Greg From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test at boat yard I am sure you will get the kinks worked out. ?Nice work so far Brian. Jon On Thursday, June 15, 2017 10:45 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,???????????? My original intention was to use that forward tank as a trim tank and I also had a idea that I would change orientation and go vertical like the Scripps ship "Flip"? , which I pretty much almost did today!?? But now I'm just concerned with having a working sub for the time being.? When I made the forward trim tank it needed to be able to take the same pressure of the hull but I think I over did it a bit and used too heavy a gauge pipe .?? I'm not getting the buoyancy that I need?,?? it was difficult to calculate what?the weight of the ferro cement would be in water up in the front there.? ?? I ran most all the air out of the MBT? and at the end the nose took a nose dive.? I think the best thing would be to put a big cylinder of synaptic foam in place of the tank I have now?, that way I could add extra compressed air cylinders if there is too much buoyancy ,? or lead to find the balance point.? ?? One thing that I'm extremely pleased about the?freeboard when the MBT is filled with air,? I have nearly 4 ft? to the top of the hatch.?Brian?? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 21 21:17:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 01:17:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Making a little headway In-Reply-To: <136915671.3781516.1498093010648@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20170615194339.A7C36FC3@m0117164.ppops.net> <843048991.4180376.1497630365108@mail.yahoo.com> <136915671.3781516.1498093010648@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1783406624.937456.1498094263426@mail.yahoo.com> Greg,What kind of sub do you have that has multiple domes? ?Hank On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 6:57 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My son helped me remove the ballast tanks and decking from the sub today in preparation for a new paint job. It's nice to be renovating the sub after an 8 year hiatus. All new domes and other viewports have been fabricated. New coms and thrusters too. Looking forward to diving again late summer. Greg From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test at boat yard I am sure you will get the kinks worked out. ?Nice work so far Brian. Jon On Thursday, June 15, 2017 10:45 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,???????????? My original intention was to use that forward tank as a trim tank and I also had a idea that I would change orientation and go vertical like the Scripps ship "Flip"? , which I pretty much almost did today!?? But now I'm just concerned with having a working sub for the time being.? When I made the forward trim tank it needed to be able to take the same pressure of the hull but I think I over did it a bit and used too heavy a gauge pipe .?? I'm not getting the buoyancy that I need?,?? it was difficult to calculate what?the weight of the ferro cement would be in water up in the front there.? ?? I ran most all the air out of the MBT? and at the end the nose took a nose dive.? I think the best thing would be to put a big cylinder of synaptic foam in place of the tank I have now?, that way I could add extra compressed air cylinders if there is too much buoyancy ,? or lead to find the balance point.? ?? One thing that I'm extremely pleased about the?freeboard when the MBT is filled with air,? I have nearly 4 ft? to the top of the hatch.?Brian?? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 21 22:49:22 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 02:49:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Making a little headway In-Reply-To: <1783406624.937456.1498094263426@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20170615194339.A7C36FC3@m0117164.ppops.net> <843048991.4180376.1497630365108@mail.yahoo.com> <136915671.3781516.1498093010648@mail.yahoo.com> <1783406624.937456.1498094263426@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1313296742.1062023.1498099762027@mail.yahoo.com> Just one for the bow and another for the hatch. There is also a steel hatch with a single viewport and two side ports on the hull. From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Making a little headway Greg,What kind of sub do you have that has multiple domes? ?Hank On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 6:57 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My son helped me remove the ballast tanks and decking from the sub today in preparation for a new paint job. It's nice to be renovating the sub after an 8 year hiatus. All new domes and other viewports have been fabricated. New coms and thrusters too. Looking forward to diving again late summer. Greg From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test at boat yard I am sure you will get the kinks worked out. ?Nice work so far Brian. Jon On Thursday, June 15, 2017 10:45 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,???????????? My original intention was to use that forward tank as a trim tank and I also had a idea that I would change orientation and go vertical like the Scripps ship "Flip"? , which I pretty much almost did today!?? But now I'm just concerned with having a working sub for the time being.? When I made the forward trim tank it needed to be able to take the same pressure of the hull but I think I over did it a bit and used too heavy a gauge pipe .?? I'm not getting the buoyancy that I need?,?? it was difficult to calculate what?the weight of the ferro cement would be in water up in the front there.? ?? I ran most all the air out of the MBT? and at the end the nose took a nose dive.? I think the best thing would be to put a big cylinder of synaptic foam in place of the tank I have now?, that way I could add extra compressed air cylinders if there is too much buoyancy ,? or lead to find the balance point.? ?? One thing that I'm extremely pleased about the?freeboard when the MBT is filled with air,? I have nearly 4 ft? to the top of the hatch.?Brian?? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 21 23:19:51 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 15:19:51 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber In-Reply-To: References: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> <1553197792.120504.1498016023457@mail.yahoo.com> <058d01d2ea46$ca75e520$5f61af60$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <068201d2eb06$6bc4dac0$434e9040$@gmail.com> Hi Steve, Scuba compressors do ?explode? ( combust oil) . i.e. the oil turns into carbon on high temperature. Synthetic oils have a much higher flash point. A relief valve is not necessarily going to protect from an explosion. The essence is that it comes down to the temperature of the achieved compression. Scuba compressors normally have a compression ratio of between 3.5 ? 4.5 in each stage. In API 618 or 11P ( Compressor Standards) it states a maximum temperature of 300 deg F (618) ? 350 deg F (11P) and generally industrial compressors will not go over a compression ratio of 4:1. If the pressure starts off at 0 psi and ends as say 2000 psi then the compression ratio is approx. 135:1 and as the final adiabatic theoretical temperature is =T1 x R^((k-1)/k) = 520 x 135^(.4/1.4) = approx. 1600 deg F assuming no temperature loss etc. So I don?t consider it is OK to sanction an air over oil compression as the average punter does not understand the significance of fast compression and slow compression. What happened in our case is that my son had tested a number of valves and then after smoko opened the valve too quickly creating a high temp shock wave which obviously ignited the oil in the pipe. We have also seen pipes blown off hydraulic compressors hospitalising an operator which had air ingress. We make high pressure gas compressors up to 600 hp. And serviced many other makes and models. We also make high pressure valves up to 10,000 psi. If we test on air we have sometimes had the seats spontaneously ignite. There is a reason for testing on Nitrogen or inert gas or using water. P-subs used to have guys playing around with 150 psi but now there are some serious pressures being bandied about by guys without Engineering degrees. Hence my cautionary tales to Alan and publishing on P-subs. Cheers, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 21 June 2017 7:40 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber Hi Hugh & Alan, Good point to consider, but it would depend on the flashpoint of the oil. SCUBA compressors do the exact combination of pressure/air/oil and don't explode. Diesel engines do too - sort of, anyway. Mineral oil designed for compressors would be a good option although pricey (AU$200 for 20L recently). Shell Corena P150 mineral oil is what I use. High pressure air is a mechanical hazard to be considered in and of itself. I'd highly recommend installing a relief valve (or device) on any test chamber or other vessel. Cheers, Steve On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, Never pressurise oil with air to those pressures. An explosion waiting to happen. Oxygen partial pressures!! If you want to do it use nitrogen. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 21 June 2017 3:34 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber Alan, Pressure testing that high needs to be done with liquid not gas. High pressure air is VERY dangerous. A pressure washer pump using water would be a safer choice. Greg _____ From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:01 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside my pressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container & the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about an inch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank to pressurise the unit up to 3000psi. Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container & the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid. Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my test chamber. (Aussie Steve's idea) Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Virus-free. www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 22 00:10:45 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 16:10:45 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber In-Reply-To: <064901d2eae4$58929450$09b7bcf0$@gmail.com> References: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> <1553197792.120504.1498016023457@mail.yahoo.com> <9C9802E6-97F9-46D1-A74E-56D970A01434@yahoo.com> <064901d2eae4$58929450$09b7bcf0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5B093AE1-7D15-45D5-B0EC-E7DA27CB5273@yahoo.com> Thanks Hugh, great example. I can imagine the sonic boom travelling up the valley & your wife running out of the house! I was at Global dive recently getting them to look at the sloppy thread on my pressure transmitters that fit on to my first stage regulator. I might run them past you for a second opinion if that is ok. Thanks for the offer of the 40,000 psi tester. I thought my lights might implode around 2000psi but for my use they only need to stand 500psi. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 22/06/2017, at 11:15 AM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > We have a pressure tester that goes up to 40,000 psi. If you need to do a high pressure test we can assist. > > We had an explosion with a 1? line that was pressurised with 3,500 psi air but there was oil left in the line after hydrotesting with oil. > The explosion blew out the side of the shed and reached an estimated 25,000 psi in the pipes which ended up looking like Spaghetti. > > I had explained in detail to the guy who did the fitting of the pipes that everything had to be taken apart after the hydrotest and cleaned using solvent, then soapy water etc. as well as telling him stories of explosions. > The guy, an aircraft engineer, did not do it properly and left oil in a branch tube, and I did not do a check on it. Very lucky my son did not get killed as he opened the valve doing tests. These things do not just go pop when they fail and this forum needs to hear of these dangers. The explosion was heard all round Clevedon. That was our first accident of that nature in 40 years of high pressure involvement. We only use water now for testing and make sure there is no air present. We did have another incident when we hired out our tester to another company who tested a tank to 1500 psi and the sight glass was held in with a very fine thread. The sight glass went through the roof iron along with the fittings and we never found the parts. The inspector had looked in the sight glass about 20 seconds before it let go. If you are using tube fittings always disassemble after swaging and check the ferrules are in the right way and that a proper joint has been achieved. There are some fittings which are copies and not up to the job. We had issues with ?DK-lok? (from Korea) with NPT threads where the taper was ? the required taper but the thread gauge said it was OK. They were also not full form threads. Also had some fittings called ?Tubefit? from I don?t know where and they were poor copies of ?Swagelok?. > We use SSP fittings out of USA which are fully interchangeable with Swagelok but in my opinion they are better quality. > > Air from a scuba tank over water is OK but make sure you have a concrete wall between you and the thing to be tested. Also you should have an excess flow valve in the line. You can get those from Swagelok etc. > Hugh > > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Wednesday, 21 June 2017 5:58 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber > > Thanks Greg & Hugh, > there was a bit of doubt in my mind about it so mentioned my > intended process. I have just googled accumulators in hydraulic systems > & the danger of high pressure air! Yikes just as well I've got you guys > looking out for me. > What about air from the scuba tank pressurising water? > I can get all the air out of the test chamber apart from the air in > the line pressurising it! > Other than that I have done some previous tests with the water blaster > & may have to suffice with it's pressure! > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 21/06/2017, at 3:33 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > > Pressure testing that high needs to be done with liquid not gas. High pressure air is VERY dangerous. A pressure washer pump using water would be a safer choice. > > Greg > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:01 PM > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber > > I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside my > pressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container > & the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about an > inch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank to > pressurise the unit up to 3000psi. > Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container & > the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid. > Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my test > chamber. (Aussie Steve's idea) > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 22 06:24:24 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 20:24:24 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber In-Reply-To: <5B093AE1-7D15-45D5-B0EC-E7DA27CB5273@yahoo.com> References: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> <1553197792.120504.1498016023457@mail.yahoo.com> <9C9802E6-97F9-46D1-A74E-56D970A01434@yahoo.com> <064901d2eae4$58929450$09b7bcf0$@gmail.com> <5B093AE1-7D15-45D5-B0EC-E7DA27CB5273@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hugh, Thanks a bunch for the detailed explanation - that makes good sense for the SCUBA compressor example and I hadn't considered adiabatic heating. I should perhaps have qualified what I was getting at - that I always like to reconcile my empirical experience with the theory behind it, because the "real world" interactions that are often counterintuitive to the theory. I'm also an engineer and I find it's the combination of background knowledge and empirical experience that makes an expert. My background is in cryogenic and industrial gas systems which are strictly oil free, but I'm still a little surprised I've never even come across this concept. I also do things with SCUBA compressors, which is where those examples come from. Really interesting to hear about your HP seats spontaneously combusting! Do you think that's from reaching heat of ignition on the seats? On a big compressor the final stage sections may get up to 200bar+ in a matter of 10 seconds or so as a matter of normal operation. I guess this still counts as "slow compression". What are your thoughts on reconciling the diesel engine example? I would think they spontaneously combust the fuel/air mix by pressure at similar pressure, and the fuel will have a much lower flashpoint than the oil. Surely that would be fast compression? Cheers, Steve On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Hugh, > great example. I can imagine the sonic boom travelling up the valley & > your wife running out of the house! > I was at Global dive recently getting them to look at the sloppy thread on > my pressure transmitters that fit on to my first stage regulator. I might > run > them past you for a second opinion if that is ok. > Thanks for the offer of the 40,000 psi tester. I thought my lights might > implode around 2000psi but for my use they only need to stand 500psi. > Cheers Alan > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 22/06/2017, at 11:15 AM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > > We have a pressure tester that goes up to 40,000 psi. If you need to do a > high pressure test we can assist. > > > > We had an explosion with a 1? line that was pressurised with 3,500 psi air > but there was oil left in the line after hydrotesting with oil. > > The explosion blew out the side of the shed and reached an estimated > 25,000 psi in the pipes which ended up looking like Spaghetti. > > > > I had explained in detail to the guy who did the fitting of the pipes that > everything had to be taken apart after the hydrotest and cleaned using > solvent, then soapy water etc. as well as telling him stories of explosions. > > The guy, an aircraft engineer, did not do it properly and left oil in a > branch tube, and I did not do a check on it. Very lucky my son did not get > killed as he opened the valve doing tests. These things do not just go > pop when they fail and this forum needs to hear of these dangers. The > explosion was heard all round Clevedon. That was our first accident of that > nature in 40 years of high pressure involvement. We only use water now for > testing and make sure there is no air present. We did have another > incident when we hired out our tester to another company who tested a tank > to 1500 psi and the sight glass was held in with a very fine thread. The > sight glass went through the roof iron along with the fittings and we never > found the parts. The inspector had looked in the sight glass about 20 > seconds before it let go. If you are using tube fittings always > disassemble after swaging and check the ferrules are in the right way and > that a proper joint has been achieved. There are some fittings which are > copies and not up to the job. We had issues with ?DK-lok? (from Korea) > with NPT threads where the taper was ? the required taper but the thread > gauge said it was OK. They were also not full form threads. Also had some > fittings called ?Tubefit? from I don?t know where and they were poor > copies of ?Swagelok?. > > We use SSP fittings out of USA which are fully interchangeable with > Swagelok but in my opinion they are better quality. > > > > Air from a scuba tank over water is OK but make sure you have a concrete > wall between you and the thing to be tested. Also you should have an > excess flow valve in the line. You can get those from Swagelok etc. > > Hugh > > > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org ] *On Behalf > Of *Alan via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Wednesday, 21 June 2017 5:58 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber > > > > Thanks Greg & Hugh, > > there was a bit of doubt in my mind about it so mentioned my > > intended process. I have just googled accumulators in hydraulic systems > > & the danger of high pressure air! Yikes just as well I've got you guys > > looking out for me. > > What about air from the scuba tank pressurising water? > > I can get all the air out of the test chamber apart from the air in > > the line pressurising it! > > Other than that I have done some previous tests with the water blaster > > & may have to suffice with it's pressure! > > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 21/06/2017, at 3:33 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > > > > Pressure testing that high needs to be done with liquid not gas. High > pressure air is VERY dangerous. A pressure washer pump using water would be > a safer choice. > > > > Greg > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Alan via Personal_Submersibles > *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:01 PM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber > > > > I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside my > > pressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container > > & the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about an > > inch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank to > > pressurise the unit up to 3000psi. > > Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container & > > the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid. > > Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my test > > chamber. (Aussie Steve's idea) > > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 22 08:11:38 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 12:11:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber In-Reply-To: References: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> <1553197792.120504.1498016023457@mail.yahoo.com> <9C9802E6-97F9-46D1-A74E-56D970A01434@yahoo.com> <064901d2eae4$58929450$09b7bcf0$@gmail.com> <5B093AE1-7D15-45D5-B0EC-E7DA27CB5273@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1054792158.3994877.1498133498710@mail.yahoo.com> A typical pressure test in one of my pressure chambers (hyd?cyl) ?goes as follows. ?I connect a short hose from the chamber to a penetrator in Gamma's hull, then I remove the Hp braided hose that goes to the forward MBT and connect to the hull penetrator. ?I close the valve to the HP tank to isolate the compressor. ?I open the valve that sends air to the forward MBT and turn on the compressor. ?I pump air to reach desired pressure and close the valve and turn off the pump. ?This takes mere seconds since there is so little air volume. ?I am inside the sub where it is nice and safe and the chamber is between the sub and exterior wall of the shop. ?I also never pump my HP tank to full pressure in one shot, I worry that the compressor gets hot, so I fill in two or three stages. ? My compressor ?is out of a US military aircraft, I figure if it is safe enough to be in an airplane it is safe in my sub. ? I hope ;-)When I test ports, I take air from a tank and place the chamber on the other side of the shop wall, but that is much lower pressure.Hank On Thursday, June 22, 2017 4:24 AM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hugh,Thanks a bunch for the detailed?explanation - that makes good sense for the SCUBA compressor example?and I hadn't considered adiabatic heating.? I should perhaps?have qualified what I was getting at - that?I always like to reconcile my empirical experience with?the theory behind it, because?the "real world"?interactions that are often counterintuitive to the theory.??I'm also an engineer and I find it's the?combination of?background?knowledge?and empirical experience that makes an expert.? My background is?in?cryogenic and industrial gas systems which are strictly oil free,?but I'm still a little surprised I've never even come across this concept.? I also do things with SCUBA compressors, which is where those examples come from. Really interesting to hear about your HP seats spontaneously combusting!? Do you think that's from reaching?heat of ignition on the seats? On a big compressor the?final?stage sections?may get up?to?200bar+ in?a matter of 10 seconds or so as a matter of?normal operation.? I guess this still counts as "slow compression". What are your thoughts on reconciling the diesel engine?example???I?would?think they spontaneously combust?the fuel/air mix by pressure at similar pressure, and the fuel will have a much lower flashpoint than the oil.? Surely that would be fast compression? Cheers,Steve On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Hugh,great example. I can imagine the sonic boom travelling up the valley &your wife running out of the house!I ?was at Global dive recently getting them to look at the sloppy thread onmy pressure transmitters that fit on to my first stage regulator. I might run?them past you for a second opinion if that is ok.Thanks for the offer of the 40,000 psi tester. I thought my lights mightimplode around 2000psi but for my use they only need to stand 500psi.Cheers Alan ? Sent from my iPad On 22/06/2017, at 11:15 AM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,We have a pressure tester that goes up to 40,000 psi.? If you need to do a high pressure test we can assist.?We had an explosion with a 1? line that was pressurised with 3,500 psi air but there was oil left in the line after hydrotesting with oil.The explosion blew out the side of the shed? and reached an estimated 25,000 psi in the pipes which ended up looking like Spaghetti.?I had explained in detail to the guy who did the fitting of the pipes that everything had to be taken apart after the hydrotest and cleaned using solvent, then soapy water etc. as well as telling him stories of explosions.The guy, an aircraft engineer, did not do it properly and left oil in a branch tube, and I did not do a check on it.? Very lucky my son did not get killed as he opened the valve? doing tests.? These things do not just go pop when they fail and this forum needs to hear of these dangers.? The explosion was heard all round Clevedon. That was our first accident of that nature in 40 years of high pressure involvement. We only use water now for testing and make sure there is no air present.? We did have another incident when we hired out our tester to another company who tested a tank to 1500 psi and the sight glass was held in with a very fine thread.? The sight glass went through the roof iron along with the fittings and we never found the parts.? The inspector had looked in the sight glass about 20 seconds before it let go.? If you are using tube fittings always disassemble after swaging and check the ferrules are in the right way and that a proper joint has been achieved.? There are some fittings which are copies and not up to the job.? We had issues with ?DK-lok? (from Korea) with NPT threads where the taper was ? the required taper but the thread gauge said it was OK. They were also not full form threads.? ?Also had some fittings called ?Tubefit?? from I don?t know where and they were poor copies of ?Swagelok?.? We use SSP fittings out of USA which are fully interchangeable with Swagelok but in my opinion they are better quality.? ?Air from a scuba tank over water is OK but make sure you have a concrete wall between you and the thing to be tested.? Also you should have an excess flow valve in the line.? You can get those from ?Swagelok etc.Hugh???From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 21 June 2017 5:58 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber?Thanks Greg & Hugh,there was a bit of doubt in my mind about it so mentioned myintended process. I have just googled accumulators in hydraulic systems& the danger of high pressure air! Yikes just as well I've got you guyslooking out for me.What about air from the scuba tank pressurising water?I can get all the air out of the test chamber apart from the air inthe line pressurising it!Other than that I have done some previous tests with the water blaster& may have to suffice with it's pressure!Cheers Alan?Sent from my iPad On 21/06/2017, at 3:33 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,?Pressure testing that high needs to be done with liquid not gas.?High pressure?air is VERY dangerous. A pressure washer pump using water would be a safer choice.?Greg?From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs. org Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:01 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber?I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside mypressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container& the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about aninch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank topressurise the unit up to 3000psi.Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container &the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid.Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my testchamber. (Aussie Steve's idea)Cheers Alan?Sent from my iPad______________________________ _________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs. orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles?? | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 22 11:13:57 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 16:13:57 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber In-Reply-To: <064901d2eae4$58929450$09b7bcf0$@gmail.com> References: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> <1553197792.120504.1498016023457@mail.yahoo.com> <9C9802E6-97F9-46D1-A74E-56D970A01434@yahoo.com> <064901d2eae4$58929450$09b7bcf0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I think ive got some of those DK-lok fittings somewhere. I don't think on the HP system as I used parker and Swagelok for those, but im going to track them down now. On 22 June 2017 at 00:15, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alan, > > We have a pressure tester that goes up to 40,000 psi. If you need to do a > high pressure test we can assist. > > > > We had an explosion with a 1? line that was pressurised with 3,500 psi air > but there was oil left in the line after hydrotesting with oil. > > The explosion blew out the side of the shed and reached an estimated > 25,000 psi in the pipes which ended up looking like Spaghetti. > > > > I had explained in detail to the guy who did the fitting of the pipes that > everything had to be taken apart after the hydrotest and cleaned using > solvent, then soapy water etc. as well as telling him stories of explosions. > > The guy, an aircraft engineer, did not do it properly and left oil in a > branch tube, and I did not do a check on it. Very lucky my son did not get > killed as he opened the valve doing tests. These things do not just go > pop when they fail and this forum needs to hear of these dangers. The > explosion was heard all round Clevedon. That was our first accident of that > nature in 40 years of high pressure involvement. We only use water now for > testing and make sure there is no air present. We did have another > incident when we hired out our tester to another company who tested a tank > to 1500 psi and the sight glass was held in with a very fine thread. The > sight glass went through the roof iron along with the fittings and we never > found the parts. The inspector had looked in the sight glass about 20 > seconds before it let go. If you are using tube fittings always > disassemble after swaging and check the ferrules are in the right way and > that a proper joint has been achieved. There are some fittings which are > copies and not up to the job. We had issues with ?DK-lok? (from Korea) > with NPT threads where the taper was ? the required taper but the thread > gauge said it was OK. They were also not full form threads. Also had some > fittings called ?Tubefit? from I don?t know where and they were poor > copies of ?Swagelok?. > > We use SSP fittings out of USA which are fully interchangeable with > Swagelok but in my opinion they are better quality. > > > > Air from a scuba tank over water is OK but make sure you have a concrete > wall between you and the thing to be tested. Also you should have an > excess flow valve in the line. You can get those from Swagelok etc. > > Hugh > > > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Wednesday, 21 June 2017 5:58 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber > > > > Thanks Greg & Hugh, > > there was a bit of doubt in my mind about it so mentioned my > > intended process. I have just googled accumulators in hydraulic systems > > & the danger of high pressure air! Yikes just as well I've got you guys > > looking out for me. > > What about air from the scuba tank pressurising water? > > I can get all the air out of the test chamber apart from the air in > > the line pressurising it! > > Other than that I have done some previous tests with the water blaster > > & may have to suffice with it's pressure! > > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 21/06/2017, at 3:33 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > > > > Pressure testing that high needs to be done with liquid not gas. High > pressure air is VERY dangerous. A pressure washer pump using water would be > a safer choice. > > > > Greg > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Alan via Personal_Submersibles > *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:01 PM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber > > > > I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside my > > pressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container > > & the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about an > > inch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank to > > pressurise the unit up to 3000psi. > > Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container & > > the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid. > > Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my test > > chamber. (Aussie Steve's idea) > > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 22 18:05:07 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 10:05:07 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber In-Reply-To: References: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> <1553197792.120504.1498016023457@mail.yahoo.com> <9C9802E6-97F9-46D1-A74E-56D970A01434@yahoo.com> <064901d2eae4$58929450$09b7bcf0$@gmail.com> <5B093AE1-7D15-45D5-B0EC-E7DA27CB5273@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <071801d2eba3$9e2817f0$da7847d0$@gmail.com> Hi Steve, Not sure what you are aiming at with reconciling the diesel engine example. A diesel engine has a trapped air volume that is compressed at approx. 18:1 and higher (21.5:1) (theoretical temperature of 725 deg F) and then the diesel is injected in as a fine spray to ensure combustion. I have left out a few details in what I described and also the formula was incorrect as I did not bring back the temperature in the formula from Rankine however I did in my calculations. Anyway the 1600 deg F was only if all the air is compressed without adding more air as the air added lowers the temperature as does the dissipation of heat into the walls of the tubing, valves etc. The point of the whole message is that high temperatures can be reached at only 2000 psi or less. Rather than say it is OK to use air I wanted to emphasize the possibility of dangerous practices and the reasons behind it. I started off with B.A. Fire service and Scuba compressor maintenance and later went on to gas compressors with CNG/NGV. The industry has seen a bunch of cowboys, explosions, irresponsible engineering etc. at this stage of life I have forgotten more than I have learned but I know who to ask and when. Normally it is Cliff & Sean who pick up on these things. We try to idiot proof our valves but that is hard to do. We have just been working on a breakaway coupling and found that if the O?rings are damaged on assembly then it can create a fast decoupling situation. We have now fixed that. There is a good mix of guys like Hank who just get on and do things and there are some ballsy things going on so that is just great to see. Good to catch up even though by way of forum. Regards, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 22 June 2017 10:24 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber Hi Hugh, Thanks a bunch for the detailed explanation - that makes good sense for the SCUBA compressor example and I hadn't considered adiabatic heating. I should perhaps have qualified what I was getting at - that I always like to reconcile my empirical experience with the theory behind it, because the "real world" interactions that are often counterintuitive to the theory. I'm also an engineer and I find it's the combination of background knowledge and empirical experience that makes an expert. My background is in cryogenic and industrial gas systems which are strictly oil free, but I'm still a little surprised I've never even come across this concept. I also do things with SCUBA compressors, which is where those examples come from. Really interesting to hear about your HP seats spontaneously combusting! Do you think that's from reaching heat of ignition on the seats? On a big compressor the final stage sections may get up to 200bar+ in a matter of 10 seconds or so as a matter of normal operation. I guess this still counts as "slow compression". What are your thoughts on reconciling the diesel engine example? I would think they spontaneously combust the fuel/air mix by pressure at similar pressure, and the fuel will have a much lower flashpoint than the oil. Surely that would be fast compression? Cheers, Steve On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Hugh, great example. I can imagine the sonic boom travelling up the valley & your wife running out of the house! I was at Global dive recently getting them to look at the sloppy thread on my pressure transmitters that fit on to my first stage regulator. I might run them past you for a second opinion if that is ok. Thanks for the offer of the 40,000 psi tester. I thought my lights might implode around 2000psi but for my use they only need to stand 500psi. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 22/06/2017, at 11:15 AM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, We have a pressure tester that goes up to 40,000 psi. If you need to do a high pressure test we can assist. We had an explosion with a 1? line that was pressurised with 3,500 psi air but there was oil left in the line after hydrotesting with oil. The explosion blew out the side of the shed and reached an estimated 25,000 psi in the pipes which ended up looking like Spaghetti. I had explained in detail to the guy who did the fitting of the pipes that everything had to be taken apart after the hydrotest and cleaned using solvent, then soapy water etc. as well as telling him stories of explosions. The guy, an aircraft engineer, did not do it properly and left oil in a branch tube, and I did not do a check on it. Very lucky my son did not get killed as he opened the valve doing tests. These things do not just go pop when they fail and this forum needs to hear of these dangers. The explosion was heard all round Clevedon. That was our first accident of that nature in 40 years of high pressure involvement. We only use water now for testing and make sure there is no air present. We did have another incident when we hired out our tester to another company who tested a tank to 1500 psi and the sight glass was held in with a very fine thread. The sight glass went through the roof iron along with the fittings and we never found the parts. The inspector had looked in the sight glass about 20 seconds before it let go. If you are using tube fittings always disassemble after swaging and check the ferrules are in the right way and that a proper joint has been achieved. There are some fittings which are copies and not up to the job. We had issues with ?DK-lok? (from Korea) with NPT threads where the taper was ? the required taper but the thread gauge said it was OK. They were also not full form threads. Also had some fittings called ?Tubefit? from I don?t know where and they were poor copies of ?Swagelok?. We use SSP fittings out of USA which are fully interchangeable with Swagelok but in my opinion they are better quality. Air from a scuba tank over water is OK but make sure you have a concrete wall between you and the thing to be tested. Also you should have an excess flow valve in the line. You can get those from Swagelok etc. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 21 June 2017 5:58 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber Thanks Greg & Hugh, there was a bit of doubt in my mind about it so mentioned my intended process. I have just googled accumulators in hydraulic systems & the danger of high pressure air! Yikes just as well I've got you guys looking out for me. What about air from the scuba tank pressurising water? I can get all the air out of the test chamber apart from the air in the line pressurising it! Other than that I have done some previous tests with the water blaster & may have to suffice with it's pressure! Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 21/06/2017, at 3:33 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, Pressure testing that high needs to be done with liquid not gas. High pressure air is VERY dangerous. A pressure washer pump using water would be a safer choice. Greg _____ From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:01 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside my pressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container & the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about an inch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank to pressurise the unit up to 3000psi. Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container & the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid. Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my test chamber. (Aussie Steve's idea) Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Virus-free. www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 22 18:34:18 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 10:34:18 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber In-Reply-To: References: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> <1553197792.120504.1498016023457@mail.yahoo.com> <9C9802E6-97F9-46D1-A74E-56D970A01434@yahoo.com> <064901d2eae4$58929450$09b7bcf0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <071d01d2eba7$b2212c70$16638550$@gmail.com> Hi James, I am not saying the tube side is bad on the DK-Lok but when you have to check the threads then the Q.C. is missing somewhere and that is not a good sign. Now that companies are getting things made in China you need to be watchful. We have had issues with bolts, and seals from supposedly reputable companies now making in China or elsewhere. One of the issues is the number of threads engaged due to thread tolerance on tapered threads such as BSP and NPT. We have had fittings that only engage 3 threads. When we manufacture we always do 1 thread more than minimum tolerance as with high pressure you need thread engagement for safety. The above tale is from ASME VII Div 1 UG43. Hope that helps. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 23 June 2017 3:14 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber I think ive got some of those DK-lok fittings somewhere. I don't think on the HP system as I used parker and Swagelok for those, but im going to track them down now. On 22 June 2017 at 00:15, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, We have a pressure tester that goes up to 40,000 psi. If you need to do a high pressure test we can assist. We had an explosion with a 1? line that was pressurised with 3,500 psi air but there was oil left in the line after hydrotesting with oil. The explosion blew out the side of the shed and reached an estimated 25,000 psi in the pipes which ended up looking like Spaghetti. I had explained in detail to the guy who did the fitting of the pipes that everything had to be taken apart after the hydrotest and cleaned using solvent, then soapy water etc. as well as telling him stories of explosions. The guy, an aircraft engineer, did not do it properly and left oil in a branch tube, and I did not do a check on it. Very lucky my son did not get killed as he opened the valve doing tests. These things do not just go pop when they fail and this forum needs to hear of these dangers. The explosion was heard all round Clevedon. That was our first accident of that nature in 40 years of high pressure involvement. We only use water now for testing and make sure there is no air present. We did have another incident when we hired out our tester to another company who tested a tank to 1500 psi and the sight glass was held in with a very fine thread. The sight glass went through the roof iron along with the fittings and we never found the parts. The inspector had looked in the sight glass about 20 seconds before it let go. If you are using tube fittings always disassemble after swaging and check the ferrules are in the right way and that a proper joint has been achieved. There are some fittings which are copies and not up to the job. We had issues with ?DK-lok? (from Korea) with NPT threads where the taper was ? the required taper but the thread gauge said it was OK. They were also not full form threads. Also had some fittings called ?Tubefit? from I don?t know where and they were poor copies of ?Swagelok?. We use SSP fittings out of USA which are fully interchangeable with Swagelok but in my opinion they are better quality. Air from a scuba tank over water is OK but make sure you have a concrete wall between you and the thing to be tested. Also you should have an excess flow valve in the line. You can get those from Swagelok etc. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 21 June 2017 5:58 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber Thanks Greg & Hugh, there was a bit of doubt in my mind about it so mentioned my intended process. I have just googled accumulators in hydraulic systems & the danger of high pressure air! Yikes just as well I've got you guys looking out for me. What about air from the scuba tank pressurising water? I can get all the air out of the test chamber apart from the air in the line pressurising it! Other than that I have done some previous tests with the water blaster & may have to suffice with it's pressure! Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 21/06/2017, at 3:33 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, Pressure testing that high needs to be done with liquid not gas. High pressure air is VERY dangerous. A pressure washer pump using water would be a safer choice. Greg _____ From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:01 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside my pressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container & the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about an inch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank to pressurise the unit up to 3000psi. Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container & the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid. Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my test chamber. (Aussie Steve's idea) Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Virus-free. www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 43383 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 22 18:38:33 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 10:38:33 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber In-Reply-To: References: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> <1553197792.120504.1498016023457@mail.yahoo.com> <9C9802E6-97F9-46D1-A74E-56D970A01434@yahoo.com> <064901d2eae4$58929450$09b7bcf0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <072301d2eba8$49d562c0$dd802840$@gmail.com> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 23 June 2017 3:14 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber I think ive got some of those DK-lok fittings somewhere. I don't think on the HP system as I used parker and Swagelok for those, but im going to track them down now. On 22 June 2017 at 00:15, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, We have a pressure tester that goes up to 40,000 psi. If you need to do a high pressure test we can assist. We had an explosion with a 1? line that was pressurised with 3,500 psi air but there was oil left in the line after hydrotesting with oil. The explosion blew out the side of the shed and reached an estimated 25,000 psi in the pipes which ended up looking like Spaghetti. I had explained in detail to the guy who did the fitting of the pipes that everything had to be taken apart after the hydrotest and cleaned using solvent, then soapy water etc. as well as telling him stories of explosions. The guy, an aircraft engineer, did not do it properly and left oil in a branch tube, and I did not do a check on it. Very lucky my son did not get killed as he opened the valve doing tests. These things do not just go pop when they fail and this forum needs to hear of these dangers. The explosion was heard all round Clevedon. That was our first accident of that nature in 40 years of high pressure involvement. We only use water now for testing and make sure there is no air present. We did have another incident when we hired out our tester to another company who tested a tank to 1500 psi and the sight glass was held in with a very fine thread. The sight glass went through the roof iron along with the fittings and we never found the parts. The inspector had looked in the sight glass about 20 seconds before it let go. If you are using tube fittings always disassemble after swaging and check the ferrules are in the right way and that a proper joint has been achieved. There are some fittings which are copies and not up to the job. We had issues with ?DK-lok? (from Korea) with NPT threads where the taper was ? the required taper but the thread gauge said it was OK. They were also not full form threads. Also had some fittings called ?Tubefit? from I don?t know where and they were poor copies of ?Swagelok?. We use SSP fittings out of USA which are fully interchangeable with Swagelok but in my opinion they are better quality. Air from a scuba tank over water is OK but make sure you have a concrete wall between you and the thing to be tested. Also you should have an excess flow valve in the line. You can get those from Swagelok etc. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 21 June 2017 5:58 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber Thanks Greg & Hugh, there was a bit of doubt in my mind about it so mentioned my intended process. I have just googled accumulators in hydraulic systems & the danger of high pressure air! Yikes just as well I've got you guys looking out for me. What about air from the scuba tank pressurising water? I can get all the air out of the test chamber apart from the air in the line pressurising it! Other than that I have done some previous tests with the water blaster & may have to suffice with it's pressure! Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 21/06/2017, at 3:33 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, Pressure testing that high needs to be done with liquid not gas. High pressure air is VERY dangerous. A pressure washer pump using water would be a safer choice. Greg _____ From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:01 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside my pressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container & the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about an inch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank to pressurise the unit up to 3000psi. Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container & the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid. Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my test chamber. (Aussie Steve's idea) Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Virus-free. www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 65844 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 22 21:00:27 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 11:00:27 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber In-Reply-To: <072301d2eba8$49d562c0$dd802840$@gmail.com> References: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> <1553197792.120504.1498016023457@mail.yahoo.com> <9C9802E6-97F9-46D1-A74E-56D970A01434@yahoo.com> <064901d2eae4$58929450$09b7bcf0$@gmail.com> <072301d2eba8$49d562c0$dd802840$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Hugh, Thanks for taking the time to respond in detail (including on the diesel engine example - I see now it's still a relatively low compression ratio). Fair enough - take-home message is that high temperatures can be generated with only moderate pressures. I couldn't agree more about the mix of people on this list - I've always been impressed with the variety of skills and knowledge they bring together, what they turn into reality, and (on a sober note) how few incidents there are. Cheers, Steve On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 8:38 AM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Friday, 23 June 2017 3:14 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber > > > > I think ive got some of those DK-lok fittings somewhere. I don't think on > the HP system as I used parker and Swagelok for those, but im going to > track them down now. > > > > On 22 June 2017 at 00:15, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > > We have a pressure tester that goes up to 40,000 psi. If you need to do a > high pressure test we can assist. > > > > We had an explosion with a 1? line that was pressurised with 3,500 psi air > but there was oil left in the line after hydrotesting with oil. > > The explosion blew out the side of the shed and reached an estimated > 25,000 psi in the pipes which ended up looking like Spaghetti. > > > > I had explained in detail to the guy who did the fitting of the pipes that > everything had to be taken apart after the hydrotest and cleaned using > solvent, then soapy water etc. as well as telling him stories of explosions. > > The guy, an aircraft engineer, did not do it properly and left oil in a > branch tube, and I did not do a check on it. Very lucky my son did not get > killed as he opened the valve doing tests. These things do not just go > pop when they fail and this forum needs to hear of these dangers. The > explosion was heard all round Clevedon. That was our first accident of that > nature in 40 years of high pressure involvement. We only use water now for > testing and make sure there is no air present. We did have another > incident when we hired out our tester to another company who tested a tank > to 1500 psi and the sight glass was held in with a very fine thread. The > sight glass went through the roof iron along with the fittings and we never > found the parts. The inspector had looked in the sight glass about 20 > seconds before it let go. If you are using tube fittings always > disassemble after swaging and check the ferrules are in the right way and > that a proper joint has been achieved. There are some fittings which are > copies and not up to the job. We had issues with ?DK-lok? (from Korea) > with NPT threads where the taper was ? the required taper but the thread > gauge said it was OK. They were also not full form threads. Also had some > fittings called ?Tubefit? from I don?t know where and they were poor > copies of ?Swagelok?. > > We use SSP fittings out of USA which are fully interchangeable with > Swagelok but in my opinion they are better quality. > > > > Air from a scuba tank over water is OK but make sure you have a concrete > wall between you and the thing to be tested. Also you should have an > excess flow valve in the line. You can get those from Swagelok etc. > > Hugh > > > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Wednesday, 21 June 2017 5:58 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber > > > > Thanks Greg & Hugh, > > there was a bit of doubt in my mind about it so mentioned my > > intended process. I have just googled accumulators in hydraulic systems > > & the danger of high pressure air! Yikes just as well I've got you guys > > looking out for me. > > What about air from the scuba tank pressurising water? > > I can get all the air out of the test chamber apart from the air in > > the line pressurising it! > > Other than that I have done some previous tests with the water blaster > > & may have to suffice with it's pressure! > > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 21/06/2017, at 3:33 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > > > > Pressure testing that high needs to be done with liquid not gas. High > pressure air is VERY dangerous. A pressure washer pump using water would be > a safer choice. > > > > Greg > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Alan via Personal_Submersibles > *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:01 PM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber > > > > I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside my > > pressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container > > & the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about an > > inch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank to > > pressurise the unit up to 3000psi. > > Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container & > > the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid. > > Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my test > > chamber. (Aussie Steve's idea) > > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 65844 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 22 21:28:37 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 18:28:37 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber Message-ID: <807115.74543.bm@smtp213.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Just to give a fuller picture of Diesel engine compression, typical pressures at TDC run 470-500 psi ( with 22 to 1 compression ratio). The air compressed being 800 - 1000 degrees F depending on humidity, altitude, etc. Keith T.? Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/22/17 6:00 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber Hi Hugh,Thanks for taking the time to respond in detail (including on the diesel engine example -?I see now it's still a relatively low compression ratio).? Fair enough - take-home message is that?high temperatures can be generated with only moderate pressures. I couldn't agree more about the?mix of people on this list - I've always been impressed with?the variety of?skills and knowledge they bring together, what they turn into reality, and?(on a sober note)?how few incidents there are. Cheers,Steve On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 8:38 AM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 23 June 2017 3:14 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber?I think ive got some of those DK-lok fittings somewhere.? I don't think?on the HP system as I used parker and Swagelok for those, but im going to track?them down now.?On 22 June 2017 at 00:15, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Alan,We have a pressure tester that goes up to 40,000 psi.? If you need to do a high pressure test we can assist.?We had an explosion with a 1? line that was pressurised with 3,500 psi air but there was oil left in the line after hydrotesting with oil.The explosion blew out the side of the shed? and reached an estimated 25,000 psi in the pipes which ended up looking like Spaghetti.?I had explained in detail to the guy who did the fitting of the pipes that everything had to be taken apart after the hydrotest and cleaned using solvent, then soapy water etc. as well as telling him stories of explosions.The guy, an aircraft engineer, did not do it properly and left oil in a branch tube, and I did not do a check on it.? Very lucky my son did not get killed as he opened the valve? doing tests.? These things do not just go pop when they fail and this forum needs to hear of these dangers.? The explosion was heard all round Clevedon. That was our first accident of that nature in 40 years of high pressure involvement. We only use water now for testing and make sure there is no air present.? We did have another incident when we hired out our tester to another company who tested a tank to 1500 psi and the sight glass was held in with a very fine thread.? The sight glass went through the roof iron along with the fittings and we never found the parts.? The inspector had looked in the sight glass about 20 seconds before it let go.? If you are using tube fittings always disassemble after swaging and check the ferrules are in the right way and that a proper joint has been achieved.? There are some fittings which are copies and not up to the job.? We had issues with ?DK-lok? (from Korea) with NPT threads where the taper was ? the required taper but the thread gauge said it was OK. They were also not full form threads.? ?Also had some fittings called ?Tubefit?? from I don?t know where and they were poor copies of ?Swagelok?.? We use SSP fittings out of USA which are fully interchangeable with Swagelok but in my opinion they are better quality.? ?Air from a scuba tank over water is OK but make sure you have a concrete wall between you and the thing to be tested.? Also you should have an excess flow valve in the line.? You can get those from ?Swagelok etc.Hugh???From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 21 June 2017 5:58 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber?Thanks Greg & Hugh,there was a bit of doubt in my mind about it so mentioned myintended process. I have just googled accumulators in hydraulic systems& the danger of high pressure air! Yikes just as well I've got you guyslooking out for me.What about air from the scuba tank pressurising water?I can get all the air out of the test chamber apart from the air inthe line pressurising it!Other than that I have done some previous tests with the water blaster& may have to suffice with it's pressure!Cheers Alan?Sent from my iPad On 21/06/2017, at 3:33 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Alan,?Pressure testing that high needs to be done with liquid not gas.?High pressure?air is VERY dangerous. A pressure washer pump using water would be a safer choice.?Greg?From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:01 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber?I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside mypressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container& the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about aninch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank topressurise the unit up to 3000psi.Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container &the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid.Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my testchamber. (Aussie Steve's idea)Cheers Alan?Sent from my iPad_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??Virus-free. www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 22 21:59:13 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 13:59:13 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber In-Reply-To: <807115.74543.bm@smtp213.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <807115.74543.bm@smtp213.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <076001d2ebc4$522130f0$f66392d0$@gmail.com> Thanks Keith, Interesting. You are now on my list of people to call. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of k6fee via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 23 June 2017 1:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber Just to give a fuller picture of Diesel engine compression, typical pressures at TDC run 470-500 psi ( with 22 to 1 compression ratio). The air compressed being 800 - 1000 degrees F depending on humidity, altitude, etc. Keith T. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/22/17 6:00 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber Hi Hugh, Thanks for taking the time to respond in detail (including on the diesel engine example - I see now it's still a relatively low compression ratio). Fair enough - take-home message is that high temperatures can be generated with only moderate pressures. I couldn't agree more about the mix of people on this list - I've always been impressed with the variety of skills and knowledge they bring together, what they turn into reality, and (on a sober note) how few incidents there are. Cheers, Steve On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 8:38 AM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 23 June 2017 3:14 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber I think ive got some of those DK-lok fittings somewhere. I don't think on the HP system as I used parker and Swagelok for those, but im going to track them down now. On 22 June 2017 at 00:15, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, We have a pressure tester that goes up to 40,000 psi. If you need to do a high pressure test we can assist. We had an explosion with a 1? line that was pressurised with 3,500 psi air but there was oil left in the line after hydrotesting with oil. The explosion blew out the side of the shed and reached an estimated 25,000 psi in the pipes which ended up looking like Spaghetti. I had explained in detail to the guy who did the fitting of the pipes that everything had to be taken apart after the hydrotest and cleaned using solvent, then soapy water etc. as well as telling him stories of explosions. The guy, an aircraft engineer, did not do it properly and left oil in a branch tube, and I did not do a check on it. Very lucky my son did not get killed as he opened the valve doing tests. These things do not just go pop when they fail and this forum needs to hear of these dangers. The explosion was heard all round Clevedon. That was our first accident of that nature in 40 years of high pressure involvement. We only use water now for testing and make sure there is no air present. We did have another incident when we hired out our tester to another company who tested a tank to 1500 psi and the sight glass was held in with a very fine thread. The sight glass went through the roof iron along with the fittings and we never found the parts. The inspector had looked in the sight glass about 20 seconds before it let go. If you are using tube fittings always disassemble after swaging and check the ferrules are in the right way and that a proper joint has been achieved. There are some fittings which are copies and not up to the job. We had issues with ?DK-lok? (from Korea) with NPT threads where the taper was ? the required taper but the thread gauge said it was OK. They were also not full form threads. Also had some fittings called ?Tubefit? from I don?t know where and they were poor copies of ?Swagelok?. We use SSP fittings out of USA which are fully interchangeable with Swagelok but in my opinion they are better quality. Air from a scuba tank over water is OK but make sure you have a concrete wall between you and the thing to be tested. Also you should have an excess flow valve in the line. You can get those from Swagelok etc. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 21 June 2017 5:58 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber Thanks Greg & Hugh, there was a bit of doubt in my mind about it so mentioned my intended process. I have just googled accumulators in hydraulic systems & the danger of high pressure air! Yikes just as well I've got you guys looking out for me. What about air from the scuba tank pressurising water? I can get all the air out of the test chamber apart from the air in the line pressurising it! Other than that I have done some previous tests with the water blaster & may have to suffice with it's pressure! Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 21/06/2017, at 3:33 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, Pressure testing that high needs to be done with liquid not gas. High pressure air is VERY dangerous. A pressure washer pump using water would be a safer choice. Greg _____ From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:01 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside my pressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container & the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about an inch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank to pressurise the unit up to 3000psi. Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container & the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid. Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my test chamber. (Aussie Steve's idea) Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Virus-free. www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 23 11:27:58 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 11:27:58 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <20170619102142.67735137@m0117457.ppops.net> References: <20170619102142.67735137@m0117457.ppops.net> Message-ID: Actually there are trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered Hank! Check out #629 below. http://trawlworks.com/floats.html Best, Alec On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > These guys have 14" spherical buoys rated to 800 meters - $120.00 > with a positive buoyancy of 39 # they are not syntactic. The syntactics > start at 30" in dia > > > http://www.mooringsystems.com/buoyancy.htm > > > > Brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 +0000 (UTC) > > Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi > > http://teledynebenthos.com/product/flotation_instrument_ > housings/flotation-glass-spheres > > Greg > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alan via Personal_Submersibles > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > > Hank, > if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184 > gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough). > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > I need 550 lbs flotation and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is > 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 > gallons of gas. > Hank > > > On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hank, > are you sure that's right! > That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton) > That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litre > of gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation. > Metric system is much easier for calculating these things. > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > Those are nice, I can see other uses for them. If I use gasoline, I would > need about 1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. I was mistaken about > the liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. > > > On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank, > inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement. > https://www.bdoutdoors.com/atl-fuel-bladder-extra/ > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > Yes I have, it is very simple and effective. There are of coarse > some hazardous logistical problems not to mention environmental > concerns. I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard. Any time > you have plastic and gas it is dangerous. Last week I did a barge job > replacing dock piles. When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, > every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark. Actually Liquid > paraffin is even better at .8g\cc > Hank > > > On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hank, > have you looked at using gasoline? > More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam, > but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as you > could use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanks > at your destination. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Greg, > that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam. I > still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost > is not manageable. I estimate I can build a Titanic capable sub for > 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ;-( > Hank > > > On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Greg, > There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard > practices. Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably > work, but is there a saving? Using wax means you have to use a deeper > rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin. I > have no idea what the cost difference would be. Maybe the cost is still > much better. When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive > part. Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the > spheres. In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's > performance. That implies that the true strength comes from the resin. > Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at > also. Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin? > Fun to think about anyways. > Hank > > > On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hi Scott, > Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet. > Hank > > > On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hank, > > Hola from Costa Rica! > > Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they > are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on > Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want. > > I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you > for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org> > Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > > I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. My idea is to fill a > neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. After the > container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally > friendly oil. This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less > complicated and cheaper. My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up > against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the > container. Are these spheres delicate? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 23 12:21:04 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 16:21:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: References: <20170619102142.67735137@m0117457.ppops.net> Message-ID: <524080940.612512.1498234864562@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,Thank you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, grrrr. ?I could go with those floats, but I do hope to build the next generation ?Elementary sub. ?I want to figure out the whole foam thing and possibly carry it over to the next sub. ?Alan has really?intrigued me with using gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me to stumble onto another liquid. ?In searching I have discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter than?gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the environment. ?I have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning. ? If anyone knows of a bad reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know. ?Olive Oil is .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that are .93 g\cc?Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Actually there are trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered Hank! Check out #629 below. http://trawlworks.com/floats.html Best, Alec On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: These guys have 14" spherical buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00??? with a positive buoyancy of 39 #??? they are not syntactic.? The syntactics start at 30" in dia ? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm???Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 +0000 (UTC) Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- spheres Greg From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hank,if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas.Hank On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,are you sure that's right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litreof gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these things.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those are nice, I can see other uses for them.? If I use gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement.??https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective.? There are of coarse some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns.? I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous.? Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles.? When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark.? Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\ccHank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam.? I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable.? I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving?? Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost difference would be.? Maybe the cost is still much better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres.? In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance.? That implies that the true strength comes from the resin.? Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work.? My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres.? After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil.? This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs. orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 23 12:35:10 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 17:35:10 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber In-Reply-To: <071d01d2eba7$b2212c70$16638550$@gmail.com> References: <65A9D72D-8BFC-49AD-908B-1DF97E31F9F9@yahoo.com> <1553197792.120504.1498016023457@mail.yahoo.com> <9C9802E6-97F9-46D1-A74E-56D970A01434@yahoo.com> <064901d2eae4$58929450$09b7bcf0$@gmail.com> <071d01d2eba7$b2212c70$16638550$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Hugh. Thanks for the thread info. Im pretty sure I have got only Swagelok on my HP system. But im going to sniff out the DK lok things tomorrow. I think I know where they are. On the motor oil compensator tubes. If so it wont matter. Regards James On 22 June 2017 at 23:34, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi James, > > I am not saying the tube side is bad on the DK-Lok but when you have to > check the threads then the Q.C. is missing somewhere and that is not a good > sign. Now that companies are getting things made in China you need to be > watchful. We have had issues with bolts, and seals from supposedly > reputable companies now making in China or elsewhere. One of the issues is > the number of threads engaged due to thread tolerance on tapered threads > such as BSP and NPT. We have had fittings that only engage 3 threads. > When we manufacture we always do 1 thread more than minimum tolerance as > with high pressure you need thread engagement for safety. > > > > The above tale is from ASME VII Div 1 UG43. > > > > Hope that helps. > > Hugh > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Friday, 23 June 2017 3:14 AM > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber > > > > I think ive got some of those DK-lok fittings somewhere. I don't think on > the HP system as I used parker and Swagelok for those, but im going to > track them down now. > > > > On 22 June 2017 at 00:15, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > > We have a pressure tester that goes up to 40,000 psi. If you need to do a > high pressure test we can assist. > > > > We had an explosion with a 1? line that was pressurised with 3,500 psi air > but there was oil left in the line after hydrotesting with oil. > > The explosion blew out the side of the shed and reached an estimated > 25,000 psi in the pipes which ended up looking like Spaghetti. > > > > I had explained in detail to the guy who did the fitting of the pipes that > everything had to be taken apart after the hydrotest and cleaned using > solvent, then soapy water etc. as well as telling him stories of explosions. > > The guy, an aircraft engineer, did not do it properly and left oil in a > branch tube, and I did not do a check on it. Very lucky my son did not get > killed as he opened the valve doing tests. These things do not just go > pop when they fail and this forum needs to hear of these dangers. The > explosion was heard all round Clevedon. That was our first accident of that > nature in 40 years of high pressure involvement. We only use water now for > testing and make sure there is no air present. We did have another > incident when we hired out our tester to another company who tested a tank > to 1500 psi and the sight glass was held in with a very fine thread. The > sight glass went through the roof iron along with the fittings and we never > found the parts. The inspector had looked in the sight glass about 20 > seconds before it let go. If you are using tube fittings always > disassemble after swaging and check the ferrules are in the right way and > that a proper joint has been achieved. There are some fittings which are > copies and not up to the job. We had issues with ?DK-lok? (from Korea) > with NPT threads where the taper was ? the required taper but the thread > gauge said it was OK. They were also not full form threads. Also had some > fittings called ?Tubefit? from I don?t know where and they were poor > copies of ?Swagelok?. > > We use SSP fittings out of USA which are fully interchangeable with > Swagelok but in my opinion they are better quality. > > > > Air from a scuba tank over water is OK but make sure you have a concrete > wall between you and the thing to be tested. Also you should have an > excess flow valve in the line. You can get those from Swagelok etc. > > Hugh > > > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Wednesday, 21 June 2017 5:58 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber > > > > Thanks Greg & Hugh, > > there was a bit of doubt in my mind about it so mentioned my > > intended process. I have just googled accumulators in hydraulic systems > > & the danger of high pressure air! Yikes just as well I've got you guys > > looking out for me. > > What about air from the scuba tank pressurising water? > > I can get all the air out of the test chamber apart from the air in > > the line pressurising it! > > Other than that I have done some previous tests with the water blaster > > & may have to suffice with it's pressure! > > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 21/06/2017, at 3:33 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > > > > Pressure testing that high needs to be done with liquid not gas. High > pressure air is VERY dangerous. A pressure washer pump using water would be > a safer choice. > > > > Greg > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Alan via Personal_Submersibles > *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:01 PM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Chamber > > > > I am making a plastic container to fill with water & stand inside my > > pressure chamber. There is a gap between the wall of the container > > & the chamber which I intend to fill with oil. There will be about an > > inch of air at the top of the chamber & I'm using a scuba tank to > > pressurise the unit up to 3000psi. > > Will car engine oil do to fill the gap between my plastic container & > > the chamber wall, or do I need to go with a hydraulic fluid. > > Am using the plastic container to keep water from rusting my test > > chamber. (Aussie Steve's idea) > > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 43383 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 23 17:52:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 09:52:53 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <524080940.612512.1498234864562@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20170619102142.67735137@m0117457.ppops.net> <524080940.612512.1498234864562@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7FC8BE50-BAB0-4E8F-B3EB-21DE29D79741@yahoo.com> Hank, is that extra virgin or cold pressed? I wonder if it compresses under pressure. Olive oil would be an expensive way to go. Whereas petrol costs nothing if you re-use it. Not sure why you fear gasoline; they let women pump it in to their cars at gas stations! Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alec, > Thank you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, grrrr. I could go with those floats, but I do hope to build the next generation Elementary sub. I want to figure out the whole foam thing and possibly carry it over to the next sub. Alan has really intrigued me with using gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me to stumble onto another liquid. In searching I have discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter than gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the environment. I have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning. If anyone knows of a bad reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know. Olive Oil is .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that are .93 g\cc > Hank > > > On Friday, June 23, 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Actually there are trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered Hank! Check out #629 below. > > http://trawlworks.com/floats.html > > > Best, > > Alec > > On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > These guys have 14" spherical buoys rated to 800 meters - $120.00 with a positive buoyancy of 39 # they are not syntactic. The syntactics start at 30" in dia > > > http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm > > > > Brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: > > From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 +0000 (UTC) > > Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi > > http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- spheres > > Greg > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > > Hank, > if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184 > gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough). > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I need 550 lbs flotation and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas. > Hank > > > On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > are you sure that's right! > That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton) > That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litre > of gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation. > Metric system is much easier for calculating these things. > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > Those are nice, I can see other uses for them. If I use gasoline, I would need about 1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. I was mistaken about the liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. > > > On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank, > inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement. > https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/ > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > Yes I have, it is very simple and effective. There are of coarse some hazardous logistical problems not to mention environmental concerns. I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard. Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous. Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles. When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark. Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\cc > Hank > > > On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > have you looked at using gasoline? > More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam, > but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as you > could use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanks > at your destination. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Greg, > that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam. I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable. I estimate I can build a Titanic capable sub for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ;-( > Hank > > > On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Greg, > There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving? Using wax means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin. I have no idea what the cost difference would be. Maybe the cost is still much better. When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part. Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres. In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance. That implies that the true strength comes from the resin. Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also. Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin? > Fun to think about anyways. > Hank > > > On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Scott, > Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet. > Hank > > > On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > > Hola from Costa Rica! > > Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want. > > I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > > I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. Are these spheres delicate? > Hank > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 23 18:17:01 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 22:17:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <7FC8BE50-BAB0-4E8F-B3EB-21DE29D79741@yahoo.com> References: <20170619102142.67735137@m0117457.ppops.net> <524080940.612512.1498234864562@mail.yahoo.com> <7FC8BE50-BAB0-4E8F-B3EB-21DE29D79741@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2121602190.930343.1498256221141@mail.yahoo.com> LOL,I checked on the?compressibility and it will compress .5 percent, per 1,000 psi ?same as hydraulic oil. ? I have weighed two types of Olive oil today and the specific gravity is actually .86g\cc ?so it is to heavy. ?I can't seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc ? if you buy in bulk it is 5 dollars per kg ?so far.I am not even sure I can drive down the road with that much gas, mind you it would be hidden behind panels on the sub. ?Then there is the expansion while it sits in the hot weather. ?If the tree huggers heard about it they would crap in their pants and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run a VW van lol.Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 3:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,is that extra virgin or cold pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder pressure.Olive oil would be an expensive way to go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use it.?Not sure why you fear gasoline; they let women pump it in to their?cars at gas stations!Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,Thank you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, grrrr. ?I could go with those floats, but I do hope to build the next generation ?Elementary sub. ?I want to figure out the whole foam thing and possibly carry it over to the next sub. ?Alan has really?intrigued me with using gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me to stumble onto another liquid. ?In searching I have discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter than?gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the environment. ?I have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning. ? If anyone knows of a bad reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know. ?Olive Oil is .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that are .93 g\cc?Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Actually there are trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered Hank! Check out #629 below. http://trawlworks.com/floats.html Best, Alec On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: These guys have 14" spherical buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00??? with a positive buoyancy of 39 #??? they are not syntactic.? The syntactics start at 30" in dia ? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm???Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 +0000 (UTC) Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- spheres Greg From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hank,if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas.Hank On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,are you sure that's right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litreof gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these things.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those are nice, I can see other uses for them.? If I use gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement.??https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective.? There are of coarse some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns.? I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous.? Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles.? When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark.? Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\ccHank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam.? I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable.? I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving?? Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost difference would be.? Maybe the cost is still much better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres.? In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance.? That implies that the true strength comes from the resin.? Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work.? My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres.? After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil.? This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs. orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 23 19:00:36 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 11:00:36 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <2121602190.930343.1498256221141@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20170619102142.67735137@m0117457.ppops.net> <524080940.612512.1498234864562@mail.yahoo.com> <7FC8BE50-BAB0-4E8F-B3EB-21DE29D79741@yahoo.com> <2121602190.930343.1498256221141@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4214A908-4D3B-4771-84B3-E4ED3C5CC217@yahoo.com> Hank, what happened to your idea of using composite tanks pressurised with air? As long as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a drop weight that could compensate for one failing, that would be ok wouldn't it? If you were filling to 3000psi, they wouldn't see external pressure till 6000ft. You could always test the idea at Nuytco. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > LOL, > I checked on the compressibility and it will compress .5 percent, per 1,000 psi same as hydraulic oil. I have weighed two types of Olive oil today and the specific gravity is actually .86g\cc so it is to heavy. I can't seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc if you buy in bulk it is 5 dollars per kg so far. > I am not even sure I can drive down the road with that much gas, mind you it would be hidden behind panels on the sub. Then there is the expansion while it sits in the hot weather. If the tree huggers heard about it they would crap in their pants and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run a VW van lol. > Hank > > > On Friday, June 23, 2017 3:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > is that extra virgin or cold pressed? I wonder if it compresses > under pressure. > Olive oil would be an expensive way to go. Whereas petrol costs > nothing if you re-use it. > Not sure why you fear gasoline; they let women pump it in to their > cars at gas stations! > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alec, >> Thank you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, grrrr. I could go with those floats, but I do hope to build the next generation Elementary sub. I want to figure out the whole foam thing and possibly carry it over to the next sub. Alan has really intrigued me with using gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me to stumble onto another liquid. In searching I have discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter than gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the environment. I have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning. If anyone knows of a bad reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know. Olive Oil is .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that are .93 g\cc >> Hank >> >> >> On Friday, June 23, 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Actually there are trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered Hank! Check out #629 below. >> >> http://trawlworks.com/floats.html >> >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> These guys have 14" spherical buoys rated to 800 meters - $120.00 with a positive buoyancy of 39 # they are not syntactic. The syntactics start at 30" in dia >> >> >> http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: >> >> From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. >> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi >> >> http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- spheres >> >> Greg >> >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. >> >> Hank, >> if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184 >> gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough). >> Cheers Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, >> I need 550 lbs flotation and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas. >> Hank >> >> >> On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> are you sure that's right! >> That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton) >> That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litre >> of gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation. >> Metric system is much easier for calculating these things. >> Cheers Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, >> Those are nice, I can see other uses for them. If I use gasoline, I would need about 1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. I was mistaken about the liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. >> >> >> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank, >> inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement. >> https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/ >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, >> Yes I have, it is very simple and effective. There are of coarse some hazardous logistical problems not to mention environmental concerns. I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard. Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous. Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles. When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark. Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\cc >> Hank >> >> >> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> have you looked at using gasoline? >> More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam, >> but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as you >> could use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanks >> at your destination. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Greg, >> that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam. I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable. I estimate I can build a Titanic capable sub for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ;-( >> Hank >> >> >> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Greg, >> There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving? Using wax means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin. I have no idea what the cost difference would be. Maybe the cost is still much better. When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part. Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres. In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance. That implies that the true strength comes from the resin. Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also. Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin? >> Fun to think about anyways. >> Hank >> >> >> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi Scott, >> Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet. >> Hank >> >> >> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> >> Hola from Costa Rica! >> >> Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want. >> >> I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 >> >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> >> >> >> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. >> >> I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. Are these spheres delicate? >> Hank >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 23 19:07:52 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 23:07:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <4214A908-4D3B-4771-84B3-E4ED3C5CC217@yahoo.com> References: <20170619102142.67735137@m0117457.ppops.net> <524080940.612512.1498234864562@mail.yahoo.com> <7FC8BE50-BAB0-4E8F-B3EB-21DE29D79741@yahoo.com> <2121602190.930343.1498256221141@mail.yahoo.com> <4214A908-4D3B-4771-84B3-E4ED3C5CC217@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1555049330.929807.1498259272079@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I am still considering that idea but Sean said NO ;-( ? It is cheap and I would have lots of exta buoyancy. ?This is good for Elementary 3,000 but not Elementary 12,000. ?I want to explore all ideas, ?and will end up where I started with spheres in epoxy ;-)Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 5:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,what happened to your idea of using composite tanks pressurised with air?As long as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a drop weight thatcould compensate for one failing, that would be ok wouldn't it?If you were filling to 3000psi, they wouldn't see external pressure till 6000ft.You could always test the idea at Nuytco.Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: LOL,I checked on the?compressibility and it will compress .5 percent, per 1,000 psi ?same as hydraulic oil. ? I have weighed two types of Olive oil today and the specific gravity is actually .86g\cc ?so it is to heavy. ?I can't seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc ? if you buy in bulk it is 5 dollars per kg ?so far.I am not even sure I can drive down the road with that much gas, mind you it would be hidden behind panels on the sub. ?Then there is the expansion while it sits in the hot weather. ?If the tree huggers heard about it they would crap in their pants and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run a VW van lol.Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 3:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,is that extra virgin or cold pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder pressure.Olive oil would be an expensive way to go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use it.?Not sure why you fear gasoline; they let women pump it in to their?cars at gas stations!Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,Thank you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, grrrr. ?I could go with those floats, but I do hope to build the next generation ?Elementary sub. ?I want to figure out the whole foam thing and possibly carry it over to the next sub. ?Alan has really?intrigued me with using gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me to stumble onto another liquid. ?In searching I have discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter than?gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the environment. ?I have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning. ? If anyone knows of a bad reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know. ?Olive Oil is .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that are .93 g\cc?Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Actually there are trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered Hank! Check out #629 below. http://trawlworks.com/floats.html Best, Alec On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: These guys have 14" spherical buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00??? with a positive buoyancy of 39 #??? they are not syntactic.? The syntactics start at 30" in dia ? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm???Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 +0000 (UTC) Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- spheres Greg From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hank,if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas.Hank On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,are you sure that's right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litreof gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these things.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those are nice, I can see other uses for them.? If I use gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement.??https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective.? There are of coarse some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns.? I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous.? Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles.? When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark.? Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\ccHank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam.? I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable.? I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving?? Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost difference would be.? Maybe the cost is still much better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres.? In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance.? That implies that the true strength comes from the resin.? Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work.? My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres.? After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil.? This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs. orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 23 19:55:29 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 23:55:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. References: <529554900.992446.1498262129824.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <529554900.992446.1498262129824@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, Don't make me go SJW on you. -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 6/23/17, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Friday, June 23, 2017, 4:52 PM Hank,is that extra virgin or cold pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder pressure.Olive oil would be an expensive way to go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use it.?Not sure why you fear gasoline; they let women pump it in to their?cars at gas stations!Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,Thank you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, grrrr. ?I could go with those floats, but I do hope to build the next generation ?Elementary sub. ?I want to figure out the whole foam thing and possibly carry it over to the next sub. ?Alan has really?intrigued me with using gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me to stumble onto another liquid. ?In searching I have discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter than?gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the environment. ?I have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning. ? If anyone knows of a bad reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know. ?Olive Oil is .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that are .93 g\cc?Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Actually there are trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered Hank! Check out #629 below. http://trawlworks.com/floats.html Best, Alec On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: These guys have 14" spherical buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00??? with a positive buoyancy of 39 #??? they are not syntactic.? The syntactics start at 30" in dia ? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm???Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 +0000 (UTC) Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- spheres Greg From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hank,if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas.Hank On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,are you sure that's right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litreof gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these things.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those are nice, I can see other uses for them.? If I use gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement.??https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective.? There are of coarse some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns.? I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous.? Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles.? When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark.? Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\ccHank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam.? I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable.? I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving?? Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost difference would be.? Maybe the cost is still much better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres.? In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance.? That implies that the true strength comes from the resin.? Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work.? My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres.? After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil.? This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 23 19:58:02 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 23:58:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. References: <2085570469.950647.1498262282837.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2085570469.950647.1498262282837@mail.yahoo.com> What about whale oil ? -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 6/23/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Friday, June 23, 2017, 5:17 PM LOL,I checked on the?compressibility and it will compress .5 percent, per 1,000 psi ?same as hydraulic oil. ? I have weighed two types of Olive oil today and the specific gravity is actually .86g\cc ?so it is to heavy. ?I can't seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc ? if you buy in bulk it is 5 dollars per kg ?so far.I am not even sure I can drive down the road with that much gas, mind you it would be hidden behind panels on the sub. ?Then there is the expansion while it sits in the hot weather. ?If the tree huggers heard about it they would crap in their pants and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run a VW van lol.Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 3:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,is that extra virgin or cold pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder pressure.Olive oil would be an expensive way to go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use it.?Not sure why you fear gasoline; they let women pump it in to their?cars at gas stations!Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,Thank you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, grrrr. ?I could go with those floats, but I do hope to build the next generation ?Elementary sub. ?I want to figure out the whole foam thing and possibly carry it over to the next sub. ?Alan has really?intrigued me with using gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me to stumble onto another liquid. ?In searching I have discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter than?gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the environment. ?I have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning. ? If anyone knows of a bad reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know. ?Olive Oil is .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that are .93 g\cc?Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Actually there are trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered Hank! Check out #629 below. http://trawlworks.com/floats.html Best, Alec On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: These guys have 14" spherical buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00??? with a positive buoyancy of 39 #??? they are not syntactic.? The syntactics start at 30" in dia ? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm???Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 +0000 (UTC) Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- spheres Greg From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hank,if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas.Hank On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,are you sure that's right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litreof gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these things.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those are nice, I can see other uses for them.? If I use gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement.??https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective.? There are of coarse some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns.? I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous.? Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles.? When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark.? Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\ccHank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam.? I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable.? I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving?? Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost difference would be.? Maybe the cost is still much better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres.? In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance.? That implies that the true strength comes from the resin.? Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work.? My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres.? After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil.? This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 23 20:11:29 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 20:11:29 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm pretty sure Olive oil goes rancid. They would smell you coming a mile away. -River Dolfi rdolfi7 at gmail.com On Jun 23, 2017 7:13 PM, "via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: syntactic foam. (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 23:07:52 +0000 (UTC) From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Message-ID: <1555049330.929807.1498259272079 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Alan,I am still considering that idea but Sean said NO ;-( ? It is cheap and I would have lots of exta buoyancy. ?This is good for Elementary 3,000 but not Elementary 12,000. ?I want to explore all ideas, ?and will end up where I started with spheres in epoxy ;-)Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 5:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hank,what happened to your idea of using composite tanks pressurised with air?As long as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a drop weight thatcould compensate for one failing, that would be ok wouldn't it?If you were filling to 3000psi, they wouldn't see external pressure till 6000ft.You could always test the idea at Nuytco.Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: LOL,I checked on the?compressibility and it will compress .5 percent, per 1,000 psi ?same as hydraulic oil. ? I have weighed two types of Olive oil today and the specific gravity is actually .86g\cc ?so it is to heavy. ?I can't seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc ? if you buy in bulk it is 5 dollars per kg ?so far.I am not even sure I can drive down the road with that much gas, mind you it would be hidden behind panels on the sub. ?Then there is the expansion while it sits in the hot weather. ?If the tree huggers heard about it they would crap in their pants and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run a VW van lol.Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 3:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hank,is that extra virgin or cold pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder pressure.Olive oil would be an expensive way to go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use it.?Not sure why you fear gasoline; they let women pump it in to their?cars at gas stations!Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Alec,Thank you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, grrrr. ?I could go with those floats, but I do hope to build the next generation ?Elementary sub. ?I want to figure out the whole foam thing and possibly carry it over to the next sub. ?Alan has really?intrigued me with using gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me to stumble onto another liquid. ?In searching I have discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter than?gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the environment. ?I have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning. ? If anyone knows of a bad reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know. ?Olive Oil is .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that are .93 g\cc?Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Actually there are trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered Hank! Check out #629 below. http://trawlworks.com/floats.html Best, Alec On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: These guys have 14" spherical buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00??? with a positive buoyancy of 39 #??? they are not syntactic.? The syntactics start at 30" in dia ? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm???Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 +0000 (UTC) Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- spheres Greg From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hank,if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas.Hank On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,are you sure that's right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litreof gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these things.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those are nice, I can see other uses for them.? If I use gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement.??https://www. bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective.? There are of coarse some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns.? I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous.? Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles.? When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark.? Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\ccHank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam.? I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable.? I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving?? Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost difference would be.? Maybe the cost is still much better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres.? In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance.? That implies that the true strength comes from the resin.? Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work.? My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres.? After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil.? This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs. orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 85 ***************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 23 20:16:24 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 00:16:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1284030866.1002662.1498263384154@mail.yahoo.com> Pete,Whale oil is pretty heavy at .925g\cc?Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 6:11 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I'm pretty sure Olive oil goes rancid. They would smell you coming a mile away. -River Dolfi rdolfi7 at gmail.com On Jun 23, 2017 7:13 PM, "via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to ? ? ? ? personal_submersibles at psubs. org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ? ? ? ? http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ? ? ? ? personal_submersibles-request@ psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at ? ? ? ? personal_submersibles-owner@ psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: ? ?1. Re: syntactic foam. (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ---------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 23:07:52 +0000 (UTC) From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? ? ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Message-ID: <1555049330.929807. 1498259272079 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Alan,I am still considering that idea but Sean said NO ;-( ? It is cheap and I would have lots of exta buoyancy. ?This is good for Elementary 3,000 but not Elementary 12,000. ?I want to explore all ideas, ?and will end up where I started with spheres in epoxy ;-)Hank ? ? On Friday, June 23, 2017 5:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Hank,what happened to your idea of using composite tanks pressurised with air?As long as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a drop weight thatcould compensate for one failing, that would be ok wouldn't it?If you were filling to 3000psi, they wouldn't see external pressure till 6000ft.You could always test the idea at Nuytco.Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: LOL,I checked on the?compressibility and it will compress .5 percent, per 1,000 psi ?same as hydraulic oil. ? I have weighed two types of Olive oil today and the specific gravity is actually .86g\cc ?so it is to heavy. ?I can't seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc ? if you buy in bulk it is 5 dollars per kg ?so far.I am not even sure I can drive down the road with that much gas, mind you it would be hidden behind panels on the sub. ?Then there is the expansion while it sits in the hot weather. ?If the tree huggers heard about it they would crap in their pants and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run a VW van lol.Hank ? ? On Friday, June 23, 2017 3:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Hank,is that extra virgin or cold pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder pressure.Olive oil would be an expensive way to go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use it.?Not sure why you fear gasoline; they let women pump it in to their?cars at gas stations!Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,Thank you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, grrrr. ?I could go with those floats, but I do hope to build the next generation ?Elementary sub. ?I want to figure out the whole foam thing and possibly carry it over to the next sub. ?Alan has really?intrigued me with using gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me to stumble onto another liquid. ?In searching I have discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter than?gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the environment. ?I have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning. ? If anyone knows of a bad reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know. ?Olive Oil is .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that are .93 g\cc?Hank ? ? On Friday, June 23, 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Actually there are trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered Hank! Check out #629 below. http://trawlworks.com/floats. html Best, Alec On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: These guys have 14" spherical buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00??? with a positive buoyancy of 39 #??? they are not syntactic.? The syntactics start at 30" in dia ? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm???Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 +0000 (UTC) Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- spheres Greg ? ? ? From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ?To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ?Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hank,if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas.Hank ? ? On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Hank,are you sure that's right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litreof gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these things.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those are nice, I can see other uses for them.? If I use gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement.??https://www. bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective.? There are of coarse some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns.? I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous.? Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles.? When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark.? Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\ccHank ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam.? I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable.? I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving?? Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost difference would be.? Maybe the cost is still much better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres.? In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance.? That implies that the true strength comes from the resin.? Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank ? ? On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work.? My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres.? After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil.? This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank_________________________ _____ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ?______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ?______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ?______________________________ _________________Personal_ Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles@ psubs. orghttp://www.psubs.org/ mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 85 ****************************** *********************** _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 23 20:26:21 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 00:26:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <2085570469.950647.1498262282837@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2085570469.950647.1498262282837.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2085570469.950647.1498262282837@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1133076205.920409.1498263982086@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Pete,they don't kill olive trees to get the oil.SJW From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. What about whale oil ? -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 6/23/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Friday, June 23, 2017, 5:17 PM LOL,I checked on the?compressibility and it will compress .5 percent, per 1,000 psi ?same as hydraulic oil. ? I have weighed two types of Olive oil today and the specific gravity is actually .86g\cc ?so it is to heavy. ?I can't seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc ? if you buy in bulk it is 5 dollars per kg ?so far.I am not even sure I can drive down the road with that much gas, mind you it would be hidden behind panels on the sub. ?Then there is the expansion while it sits in the hot weather. ?If the tree huggers heard about it they would crap in their pants and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run a VW van lol.Hank ? ? On Friday, June 23, 2017 3:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hank,is that extra virgin or cold pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder pressure.Olive oil would be an expensive way to go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use it.?Not sure why you fear gasoline; they let women pump it in to their?cars at gas stations!Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,Thank you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, grrrr. ?I could go with those floats, but I do hope to build the next generation ?Elementary sub. ?I want to figure out the whole foam thing and possibly carry it over to the next sub. ?Alan has really?intrigued me with using gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me to stumble onto another liquid. ?In searching I have discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter than?gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the environment. ?I have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning. ? If anyone knows of a bad reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know. ?Olive Oil is .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that are .93 g\cc?Hank ? ? On Friday, June 23, 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Actually there are trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered Hank! Check out #629 below. http://trawlworks.com/floats.html Best, Alec On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: These guys have 14" spherical buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00??? with a positive buoyancy of 39 #??? they are not syntactic.? The syntactics start at 30" in dia ? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm???Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 +0000 (UTC) Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- spheres Greg ? ? ? From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. ? Hank,if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas.Hank ? ? On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank,are you sure that's right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litreof gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these things.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those are nice, I can see other uses for them.? If I use gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement.??https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective.? There are of coarse some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns.? I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous.? Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles.? When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark.? Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\ccHank ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam.? I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable.? I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving?? Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost difference would be.? Maybe the cost is still much better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres.? In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance.? That implies that the true strength comes from the resin.? Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank ? ? On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17? 12:38 PM? (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work.? My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres.? After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil.? This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 23 20:32:24 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 00:32:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <1555049330.929807.1498259272079@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20170619102142.67735137@m0117457.ppops.net> <524080940.612512.1498234864562@mail.yahoo.com> <7FC8BE50-BAB0-4E8F-B3EB-21DE29D79741@yahoo.com> <2121602190.930343.1498256221141@mail.yahoo.com> <4214A908-4D3B-4771-84B3-E4ED3C5CC217@yahoo.com> <1555049330.929807.1498259272079@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1077646133.922076.1498264344456@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,I had another quick Google on collapsible petrol containers.There is a huge variety, with manufacturers offering tailor made?products.Here is a news item about them using them on the jetpack. They have a collapsible fuel tank strapped to their back.http://www.atlinc.com/newsreleases.htmlAlan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 11:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Alan,I am still considering that idea but Sean said NO ;-( ? It is cheap and I would have lots of exta buoyancy. ?This is good for Elementary 3,000 but not Elementary 12,000. ?I want to explore all ideas, ?and will end up where I started with spheres in epoxy ;-)Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 5:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,what happened to your idea of using composite tanks pressurised with air?As long as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a drop weight thatcould compensate for one failing, that would be ok wouldn't it?If you were filling to 3000psi, they wouldn't see external pressure till 6000ft.You could always test the idea at Nuytco.Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: LOL,I checked on the?compressibility and it will compress .5 percent, per 1,000 psi ?same as hydraulic oil. ? I have weighed two types of Olive oil today and the specific gravity is actually .86g\cc ?so it is to heavy. ?I can't seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc ? if you buy in bulk it is 5 dollars per kg ?so far.I am not even sure I can drive down the road with that much gas, mind you it would be hidden behind panels on the sub. ?Then there is the expansion while it sits in the hot weather. ?If the tree huggers heard about it they would crap in their pants and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run a VW van lol.Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 3:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,is that extra virgin or cold pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder pressure.Olive oil would be an expensive way to go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use it.?Not sure why you fear gasoline; they let women pump it in to their?cars at gas stations!Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,Thank you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, grrrr. ?I could go with those floats, but I do hope to build the next generation ?Elementary sub. ?I want to figure out the whole foam thing and possibly carry it over to the next sub. ?Alan has really?intrigued me with using gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me to stumble onto another liquid. ?In searching I have discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter than?gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the environment. ?I have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning. ? If anyone knows of a bad reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know. ?Olive Oil is .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that are .93 g\cc?Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Actually there are trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered Hank! Check out #629 below. http://trawlworks.com/floats.html Best, Alec On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: These guys have 14" spherical buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00??? with a positive buoyancy of 39 #??? they are not syntactic.? The syntactics start at 30" in dia ? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm???Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 +0000 (UTC) Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- spheres Greg From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hank,if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas.Hank On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,are you sure that's right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litreof gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these things.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those are nice, I can see other uses for them.? If I use gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement.??https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective.? There are of coarse some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns.? I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous.? Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles.? When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark.? Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\ccHank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam.? I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable.? I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving?? Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost difference would be.? Maybe the cost is still much better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres.? In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance.? That implies that the true strength comes from the resin.? Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work.? My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres.? After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil.? This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs. orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 23 21:12:33 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 01:12:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <1077646133.922076.1498264344456@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20170619102142.67735137@m0117457.ppops.net> <524080940.612512.1498234864562@mail.yahoo.com> <7FC8BE50-BAB0-4E8F-B3EB-21DE29D79741@yahoo.com> <2121602190.930343.1498256221141@mail.yahoo.com> <4214A908-4D3B-4771-84B3-E4ED3C5CC217@yahoo.com> <1555049330.929807.1498259272079@mail.yahoo.com> <1077646133.922076.1498264344456@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1601915388.1002742.1498266753053@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Those look amazing and expensive. ?I am not saying it is not doable, I am just very?nervous due to lack of knowledge. ?I am sure with proper engineering and safety grounding it can be safe. ?I would go with CNG type 4 tanks before I did gasoline. ?I can buy one brand new tank that will provide all the buoyancy I need for 2,500-3,000 ?or I can buy a used tank that is current until 2030 for 1,100 dollars plus shipping. ?Also the CNG tank only adds 105 lbs plus compressed air weight to the ?dry weight, making the sub easy to lift onto the deck of my proposed landing craft.Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 6:32 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I had another quick Google on collapsible petrol containers.There is a huge variety, with manufacturers offering tailor made?products.Here is a news item about them using them on the jetpack. They have a collapsible fuel tank strapped to their back.http://www.atlinc.com/newsreleases.htmlAlan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 11:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Alan,I am still considering that idea but Sean said NO ;-( ? It is cheap and I would have lots of exta buoyancy. ?This is good for Elementary 3,000 but not Elementary 12,000. ?I want to explore all ideas, ?and will end up where I started with spheres in epoxy ;-)Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 5:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,what happened to your idea of using composite tanks pressurised with air?As long as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a drop weight thatcould compensate for one failing, that would be ok wouldn't it?If you were filling to 3000psi, they wouldn't see external pressure till 6000ft.You could always test the idea at Nuytco.Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: LOL,I checked on the?compressibility and it will compress .5 percent, per 1,000 psi ?same as hydraulic oil. ? I have weighed two types of Olive oil today and the specific gravity is actually .86g\cc ?so it is to heavy. ?I can't seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc ? if you buy in bulk it is 5 dollars per kg ?so far.I am not even sure I can drive down the road with that much gas, mind you it would be hidden behind panels on the sub. ?Then there is the expansion while it sits in the hot weather. ?If the tree huggers heard about it they would crap in their pants and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run a VW van lol.Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 3:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,is that extra virgin or cold pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder pressure.Olive oil would be an expensive way to go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use it.?Not sure why you fear gasoline; they let women pump it in to their?cars at gas stations!Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,Thank you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, grrrr. ?I could go with those floats, but I do hope to build the next generation ?Elementary sub. ?I want to figure out the whole foam thing and possibly carry it over to the next sub. ?Alan has really?intrigued me with using gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me to stumble onto another liquid. ?In searching I have discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter than?gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the environment. ?I have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning. ? If anyone knows of a bad reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know. ?Olive Oil is .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that are .93 g\cc?Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Actually there are trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered Hank! Check out #629 below. http://trawlworks.com/floats.html Best, Alec On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: These guys have 14" spherical buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00??? with a positive buoyancy of 39 #??? they are not syntactic.? The syntactics start at 30" in dia ? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm???Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 +0000 (UTC) Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- spheres Greg From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hank,if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas.Hank On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,are you sure that's right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litreof gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these things.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those are nice, I can see other uses for them.? If I use gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement.??https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective.? There are of coarse some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns.? I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous.? Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles.? When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark.? Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\ccHank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam.? I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable.? I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving?? Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost difference would be.? Maybe the cost is still much better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres.? In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance.? That implies that the true strength comes from the resin.? Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work.? My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres.? After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil.? This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs. orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 23 21:44:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 13:44:56 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <1601915388.1002742.1498266753053@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20170619102142.67735137@m0117457.ppops.net> <524080940.612512.1498234864562@mail.yahoo.com> <7FC8BE50-BAB0-4E8F-B3EB-21DE29D79741@yahoo.com> <2121602190.930343.1498256221141@mail.yahoo.com> <4214A908-4D3B-4771-84B3-E4ED3C5CC217@yahoo.com> <1555049330.929807.1498259272079@mail.yahoo.com> <1077646133.922076.1498264344456@mail.yahoo.com> <1601915388.1002742.1498266753053@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, yes the gas tanks may be expensive. You could possibly make a series of boxes for the petrol. Make a box out of marine ply, seal it with epoxy, drill a couple of holes in the bottom & glue in a flexible membrane across the inside bottom of the box. Then seal a top on with a valve for filling. Just brain storming here! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 24/06/2017, at 1:12 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > Those look amazing and expensive. I am not saying it is not doable, I am just very nervous due to lack of knowledge. I am sure with proper engineering and safety grounding it can be safe. I would go with CNG type 4 tanks before I did gasoline. I can buy one brand new tank that will provide all the buoyancy I need for 2,500-3,000 or I can buy a used tank that is current until 2030 for 1,100 dollars plus shipping. Also the CNG tank only adds 105 lbs plus compressed air weight to the dry weight, making the sub easy to lift onto the deck of my proposed landing craft. > Hank > > > On Friday, June 23, 2017 6:32 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > I had another quick Google on collapsible petrol containers. > There is a huge variety, with manufacturers offering tailor made products. > Here is a news item about them using them on the jetpack. They have a > collapsible fuel tank strapped to their back. > http://www.atlinc.com/newsreleases.html > Alan > > > > > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 11:16 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > > Alan, > I am still considering that idea but Sean said NO ;-( It is cheap and I would have lots of exta buoyancy. This is good for Elementary 3,000 but not Elementary 12,000. I want to explore all ideas, and will end up where I started with spheres in epoxy ;-) > Hank > > > On Friday, June 23, 2017 5:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > what happened to your idea of using composite tanks pressurised with air? > As long as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a drop weight that > could compensate for one failing, that would be ok wouldn't it? > If you were filling to 3000psi, they wouldn't see external pressure till 6000ft. > You could always test the idea at Nuytco. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> LOL, >> I checked on the compressibility and it will compress .5 percent, per 1,000 psi same as hydraulic oil. I have weighed two types of Olive oil today and the specific gravity is actually .86g\cc so it is to heavy. I can't seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc if you buy in bulk it is 5 dollars per kg so far. >> I am not even sure I can drive down the road with that much gas, mind you it would be hidden behind panels on the sub. Then there is the expansion while it sits in the hot weather. If the tree huggers heard about it they would crap in their pants and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run a VW van lol. >> Hank >> >> >> On Friday, June 23, 2017 3:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> is that extra virgin or cold pressed? I wonder if it compresses >> under pressure. >> Olive oil would be an expensive way to go. Whereas petrol costs >> nothing if you re-use it. >> Not sure why you fear gasoline; they let women pump it in to their >> cars at gas stations! >> Cheers Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alec, >>> Thank you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, grrrr. I could go with those floats, but I do hope to build the next generation Elementary sub. I want to figure out the whole foam thing and possibly carry it over to the next sub. Alan has really intrigued me with using gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me to stumble onto another liquid. In searching I have discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter than gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the environment. I have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning. If anyone knows of a bad reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know. Olive Oil is .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that are .93 g\cc >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> On Friday, June 23, 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Actually there are trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered Hank! Check out #629 below. >>> >>> http://trawlworks.com/floats.html >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> These guys have 14" spherical buoys rated to 800 meters - $120.00 with a positive buoyancy of 39 # they are not syntactic. The syntactics start at 30" in dia >>> >>> >>> http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm >>> >>> >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: >>> >>> From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. >>> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 +0000 (UTC) >>> >>> Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi >>> >>> http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- spheres >>> >>> Greg >>> >>> >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. >>> >>> Hank, >>> if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184 >>> gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough). >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> I need 550 lbs flotation and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas. >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hank, >>> are you sure that's right! >>> That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton) >>> That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litre >>> of gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation. >>> Metric system is much easier for calculating these things. >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> Those are nice, I can see other uses for them. If I use gasoline, I would need about 1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. I was mistaken about the liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank, >>> inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement. >>> https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/ >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> Yes I have, it is very simple and effective. There are of coarse some hazardous logistical problems not to mention environmental concerns. I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard. Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous. Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles. When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark. Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\cc >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hank, >>> have you looked at using gasoline? >>> More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam, >>> but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as you >>> could use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanks >>> at your destination. >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Greg, >>> that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam. I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable. I estimate I can build a Titanic capable sub for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ;-( >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Greg, >>> There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving? Using wax means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin. I have no idea what the cost difference would be. Maybe the cost is still much better. When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part. Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres. In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance. That implies that the true strength comes from the resin. Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also. Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin? >>> Fun to think about anyways. >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi Scott, >>> Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet. >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hank, >>> >>> Hola from Costa Rica! >>> >>> Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want. >>> >>> I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Scott Waters >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>> >>> -------- Original message -------- >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. >>> >>> I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. Are these spheres delicate? >>> Hank >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 23 22:29:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 02:29:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: References: <20170619102142.67735137@m0117457.ppops.net> <524080940.612512.1498234864562@mail.yahoo.com> <7FC8BE50-BAB0-4E8F-B3EB-21DE29D79741@yahoo.com> <2121602190.930343.1498256221141@mail.yahoo.com> <4214A908-4D3B-4771-84B3-E4ED3C5CC217@yahoo.com> <1555049330.929807.1498259272079@mail.yahoo.com> <1077646133.922076.1498264344456@mail.yahoo.com> <1601915388.1002742.1498266753053@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1678407451.1051529.1498271389531@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,The other issue with a bladder or small tanks is supporting them. ?There would be a lot of weight added to support or?house them. ?A cng tank needs two straps and your done. ?Lots to considerHank On Friday, June 23, 2017 7:45 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,yes the gas tanks may be expensive.?You could possibly make a series of boxes for the petrol. Make a box out ofmarine ply, seal it with epoxy, drill a couple of holes in the bottom & glue ina flexible membrane across the inside bottom of the box. Then seal a top on?with a valve for filling. Just brain storming here!Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 1:12 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those look amazing and expensive. ?I am not saying it is not doable, I am just very?nervous due to lack of knowledge. ?I am sure with proper engineering and safety grounding it can be safe. ?I would go with CNG type 4 tanks before I did gasoline. ?I can buy one brand new tank that will provide all the buoyancy I need for 2,500-3,000 ?or I can buy a used tank that is current until 2030 for 1,100 dollars plus shipping. ?Also the CNG tank only adds 105 lbs plus compressed air weight to the ?dry weight, making the sub easy to lift onto the deck of my proposed landing craft.Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 6:32 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I had another quick Google on collapsible petrol containers.There is a huge variety, with manufacturers offering tailor made?products.Here is a news item about them using them on the jetpack. They have a collapsible fuel tank strapped to their back.http://www.atlinc.com/newsreleases.htmlAlan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 11:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Alan,I am still considering that idea but Sean said NO ;-( ? It is cheap and I would have lots of exta buoyancy. ?This is good for Elementary 3,000 but not Elementary 12,000. ?I want to explore all ideas, ?and will end up where I started with spheres in epoxy ;-)Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 5:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,what happened to your idea of using composite tanks pressurised with air?As long as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a drop weight thatcould compensate for one failing, that would be ok wouldn't it?If you were filling to 3000psi, they wouldn't see external pressure till 6000ft.You could always test the idea at Nuytco.Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: LOL,I checked on the?compressibility and it will compress .5 percent, per 1,000 psi ?same as hydraulic oil. ? I have weighed two types of Olive oil today and the specific gravity is actually .86g\cc ?so it is to heavy. ?I can't seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc ? if you buy in bulk it is 5 dollars per kg ?so far.I am not even sure I can drive down the road with that much gas, mind you it would be hidden behind panels on the sub. ?Then there is the expansion while it sits in the hot weather. ?If the tree huggers heard about it they would crap in their pants and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run a VW van lol.Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 3:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,is that extra virgin or cold pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder pressure.Olive oil would be an expensive way to go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use it.?Not sure why you fear gasoline; they let women pump it in to their?cars at gas stations!Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,Thank you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, grrrr. ?I could go with those floats, but I do hope to build the next generation ?Elementary sub. ?I want to figure out the whole foam thing and possibly carry it over to the next sub. ?Alan has really?intrigued me with using gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me to stumble onto another liquid. ?In searching I have discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter than?gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the environment. ?I have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning. ? If anyone knows of a bad reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know. ?Olive Oil is .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that are .93 g\cc?Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Actually there are trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered Hank! Check out #629 below. http://trawlworks.com/floats.html Best, Alec On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: These guys have 14" spherical buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00??? with a positive buoyancy of 39 #??? they are not syntactic.? The syntactics start at 30" in dia ? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm???Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 +0000 (UTC) Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- spheres Greg From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hank,if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas.Hank On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,are you sure that's right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litreof gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these things.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those are nice, I can see other uses for them.? If I use gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement.??https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective.? There are of coarse some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns.? I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous.? Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles.? When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark.? Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\ccHank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam.? I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable.? I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving?? Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost difference would be.? Maybe the cost is still much better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres.? In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance.? That implies that the true strength comes from the resin.? Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work.? My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres.? After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil.? This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs. orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 24 00:34:29 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 21:34:29 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Message-ID: <20170623213429.C6B0DCBB@m0117566.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 24 01:55:14 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 17:55:14 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <20170623213429.C6B0DCBB@m0117566.ppops.net> References: <20170623213429.C6B0DCBB@m0117566.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi Brian, from a G.L standpoint, it would be ok as long as you have a certain amount of stability & can exit the sub if any one of your ballast tanks ruptures. There is talk in the G.L. rules about crash bars around subs; they may possibly require you fit them to protect the tanks. I was told by a psubber how he hit an underwater pinnacle, & even though he was moving slowly the impact shocked him. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 24/06/2017, at 4:34 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I think I'm going to take my front steel tank and use it for a mold for making a fiberglass soft ballast tank, then I will fill it with syntactic foam , but leave some space to inject air. Hank, do you have a tank like that? Is having a fiberglass soft ballast Kosher with ABS? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 02:29:49 +0000 (UTC) > > Alan, > The other issue with a bladder or small tanks is supporting them. There would be a lot of weight added to support or house them. A cng tank needs two straps and your done. Lots to consider > Hank > > > On Friday, June 23, 2017 7:45 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > yes the gas tanks may be expensive. > You could possibly make a series of boxes for the petrol. Make a box out of > marine ply, seal it with epoxy, drill a couple of holes in the bottom & glue in > a flexible membrane across the inside bottom of the box. Then seal a top on > with a valve for filling. Just brain storming here! > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 24/06/2017, at 1:12 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > Those look amazing and expensive. I am not saying it is not doable, I am just very nervous due to lack of knowledge. I am sure with proper engineering and safety grounding it can be safe. I would go with CNG type 4 tanks before I did gasoline. I can buy one brand new tank that will provide all the buoyancy I need for 2,500-3,000 or I can buy a used tank that is current until 2030 for 1,100 dollars plus shipping. Also the CNG tank only adds 105 lbs plus compressed air weight to the dry weight, making the sub easy to lift onto the deck of my proposed landing craft. > Hank > > > On Friday, June 23, 2017 6:32 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > I had another quick Google on collapsible petrol containers. > There is a huge variety, with manufacturers offering tailor made products. > Here is a news item about them using them on the jetpack. They have a > collapsible fuel tank strapped to their back. > http://www.atlinc.com/newsreleases.html > Alan > > > > > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 11:16 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > > Alan, > I am still considering that idea but Sean said NO ;-( It is cheap and I would have lots of exta buoyancy. This is good for Elementary 3,000 but not Elementary 12,000. I want to explore all ideas, and will end up where I started with spheres in epoxy ;-) > Hank > > > On Friday, June 23, 2017 5:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > what happened to your idea of using composite tanks pressurised with air? > As long as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a drop weight that > could compensate for one failing, that would be ok wouldn't it? > If you were filling to 3000psi, they wouldn't see external pressure till 6000ft. > You could always test the idea at Nuytco. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > LOL, > I checked on the compressibility and it will compress .5 percent, per 1,000 psi same as hydraulic oil. I have weighed two types of Olive oil today and the specific gravity is actually .86g\cc so it is to heavy. I can't seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc if you buy in bulk it is 5 dollars per kg so far. > I am not even sure I can drive down the road with that much gas, mind you it would be hidden behind panels on the sub. Then there is the expansion while it sits in the hot weather. If the tree huggers heard about it they would crap in their pants and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run a VW van lol. > Hank > > > On Friday, June 23, 2017 3:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > is that extra virgin or cold pressed? I wonder if it compresses > under pressure. > Olive oil would be an expensive way to go. Whereas petrol costs > nothing if you re-use it. > Not sure why you fear gasoline; they let women pump it in to their > cars at gas stations! > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alec, > Thank you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, grrrr. I could go with those floats, but I do hope to build the next generation Elementary sub. I want to figure out the whole foam thing and possibly carry it over to the next sub. Alan has really intrigued me with using gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me to stumble onto another liquid. In searching I have discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter than gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the environment. I have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning. If anyone knows of a bad reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know. Olive Oil is .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that are .93 g\cc > Hank > > > On Friday, June 23, 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Actually there are trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered Hank! Check out #629 below. > > http://trawlworks.com/floats.html > > > Best, > > Alec > > On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > These guys have 14" spherical buoys rated to 800 meters - $120.00 with a positive buoyancy of 39 # they are not syntactic. The syntactics start at 30" in dia > > > http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm > > > > Brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: > > From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 +0000 (UTC) > > Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi > > http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- spheres > > Greg > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > > Hank, > if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184 > gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough). > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I need 550 lbs flotation and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas. > Hank > > > On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > are you sure that's right! > That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton) > That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litre > of gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation. > Metric system is much easier for calculating these things. > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > Those are nice, I can see other uses for them. If I use gasoline, I would need about 1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. I was mistaken about the liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. > > > On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank, > inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement. > https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/ > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > Yes I have, it is very simple and effective. There are of coarse some hazardous logistical problems not to mention environmental concerns. I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard. Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous. Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles. When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark. Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\cc > Hank > > > On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > have you looked at using gasoline? > More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam, > but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as you > could use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanks > at your destination. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Greg, > that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam. I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable. I estimate I can build a Titanic capable sub for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ;-( > Hank > > > On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Greg, > There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving? Using wax means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin. I have no idea what the cost difference would be. Maybe the cost is still much better. When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part. Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres. In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance. That implies that the true strength comes from the resin. Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also. Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin? > Fun to think about anyways. > Hank > > > On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Scott, > Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet. > Hank > > > On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > > Hola from Costa Rica! > > Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want. > > I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > > I have an idea, but not sure if it will work. My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres. After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil. This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper. My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. Are these spheres delicate? > Hank > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 24 07:50:10 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 11:50:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <1678407451.1051529.1498271389531@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20170619102142.67735137@m0117457.ppops.net> <524080940.612512.1498234864562@mail.yahoo.com> <7FC8BE50-BAB0-4E8F-B3EB-21DE29D79741@yahoo.com> <2121602190.930343.1498256221141@mail.yahoo.com> <4214A908-4D3B-4771-84B3-E4ED3C5CC217@yahoo.com> <1555049330.929807.1498259272079@mail.yahoo.com> <1077646133.922076.1498264344456@mail.yahoo.com> <1601915388.1002742.1498266753053@mail.yahoo.com> <1678407451.1051529.1498271389531@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1170018874.1241111.1498305010434@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,My MBT on Elementary was?fibreglass, only for weight reasons. ?I don't like fibreglass the way old welders don't like mig welders. ?My MBT is the same as your talking about, I filled it with trawl floats (30 ) and used the remaining space for air at the surface. ? I prefer steel tanks like Gamma has because they are tough as nails, but I have to admit fibreglass would have been better for weight reasons.Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 8:30 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,The other issue with a bladder or small tanks is supporting them. ?There would be a lot of weight added to support or?house them. ?A cng tank needs two straps and your done. ?Lots to considerHank On Friday, June 23, 2017 7:45 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,yes the gas tanks may be expensive.?You could possibly make a series of boxes for the petrol. Make a box out ofmarine ply, seal it with epoxy, drill a couple of holes in the bottom & glue ina flexible membrane across the inside bottom of the box. Then seal a top on?with a valve for filling. Just brain storming here!Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 1:12 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those look amazing and expensive. ?I am not saying it is not doable, I am just very?nervous due to lack of knowledge. ?I am sure with proper engineering and safety grounding it can be safe. ?I would go with CNG type 4 tanks before I did gasoline. ?I can buy one brand new tank that will provide all the buoyancy I need for 2,500-3,000 ?or I can buy a used tank that is current until 2030 for 1,100 dollars plus shipping. ?Also the CNG tank only adds 105 lbs plus compressed air weight to the ?dry weight, making the sub easy to lift onto the deck of my proposed landing craft.Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 6:32 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I had another quick Google on collapsible petrol containers.There is a huge variety, with manufacturers offering tailor made?products.Here is a news item about them using them on the jetpack. They have a collapsible fuel tank strapped to their back.http://www.atlinc.com/newsreleases.htmlAlan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 11:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Alan,I am still considering that idea but Sean said NO ;-( ? It is cheap and I would have lots of exta buoyancy. ?This is good for Elementary 3,000 but not Elementary 12,000. ?I want to explore all ideas, ?and will end up where I started with spheres in epoxy ;-)Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 5:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,what happened to your idea of using composite tanks pressurised with air?As long as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a drop weight thatcould compensate for one failing, that would be ok wouldn't it?If you were filling to 3000psi, they wouldn't see external pressure till 6000ft.You could always test the idea at Nuytco.Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: LOL,I checked on the?compressibility and it will compress .5 percent, per 1,000 psi ?same as hydraulic oil. ? I have weighed two types of Olive oil today and the specific gravity is actually .86g\cc ?so it is to heavy. ?I can't seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc ? if you buy in bulk it is 5 dollars per kg ?so far.I am not even sure I can drive down the road with that much gas, mind you it would be hidden behind panels on the sub. ?Then there is the expansion while it sits in the hot weather. ?If the tree huggers heard about it they would crap in their pants and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run a VW van lol.Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 3:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,is that extra virgin or cold pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder pressure.Olive oil would be an expensive way to go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use it.?Not sure why you fear gasoline; they let women pump it in to their?cars at gas stations!Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,Thank you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, grrrr. ?I could go with those floats, but I do hope to build the next generation ?Elementary sub. ?I want to figure out the whole foam thing and possibly carry it over to the next sub. ?Alan has really?intrigued me with using gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me to stumble onto another liquid. ?In searching I have discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter than?gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the environment. ?I have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning. ? If anyone knows of a bad reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know. ?Olive Oil is .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that are .93 g\cc?Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Actually there are trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered Hank! Check out #629 below. http://trawlworks.com/floats.html Best, Alec On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: These guys have 14" spherical buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00??? with a positive buoyancy of 39 #??? they are not syntactic.? The syntactics start at 30" in dia ? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm???Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 +0000 (UTC) Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- spheres Greg From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hank,if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas.Hank On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,are you sure that's right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litreof gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these things.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those are nice, I can see other uses for them.? If I use gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement.??https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective.? There are of coarse some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns.? I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous.? Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles.? When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark.? Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\ccHank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam.? I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable.? I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving?? Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost difference would be.? Maybe the cost is still much better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres.? In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance.? That implies that the true strength comes from the resin.? Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work.? My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres.? After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil.? This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs. orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 24 08:10:40 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 12:10:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wireless control References: <1677718777.1292838.1498306240459.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1677718777.1292838.1498306240459@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,Gamma has this stupid multi wire cable that goes from the electric panel to the hand control box. ?The box has speed control for 4 motors and forward and reverse for the 4 motors. ?Can I make that remote without an electrical engineering degree from MIT?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 24 14:36:44 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 11:36:44 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Message-ID: <20170624113644.C6AB85C5@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 24 14:51:16 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 18:51:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <20170624113644.C6AB85C5@m0117457.ppops.net> References: <20170624113644.C6AB85C5@m0117457.ppops.net> Message-ID: <2011167588.1475474.1498330276763@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,Mine are 11 inches dia , I doubt the 14 inch have floats inside. ?Hank On Saturday, June 24, 2017 12:36 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,????????? ??????????????? What diameter are your trawl floats ???? The trawl floats I was looking at were14" in diameter but they have smaller ones inside I think.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 11:50:10 +0000 (UTC) Brian,My MBT on Elementary was?fibreglass, only for weight reasons. ?I don't like fibreglass the way old welders don't like mig welders. ?My MBT is the same as your talking about, I filled it with trawl floats (30 ) and used the remaining space for air at the surface. ? I prefer steel tanks like Gamma has because they are tough as nails, but I have to admit fibreglass would have been better for weight reasons.Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 8:30 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,The other issue with a bladder or small tanks is supporting them. ?There would be a lot of weight added to support or?house them. ?A cng tank needs two straps and your done. ?Lots to considerHank On Friday, June 23, 2017 7:45 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,yes the gas tanks may be expensive.?You could possibly make a series of boxes for the petrol. Make a box out ofmarine ply, seal it with epoxy, drill a couple of holes in the bottom & glue ina flexible membrane across the inside bottom of the box. Then seal a top on?with a valve for filling. Just brain storming here!Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 1:12 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those look amazing and expensive. ?I am not saying it is not doable, I am just very?nervous due to lack of knowledge. ?I am sure with proper engineering and safety grounding it can be safe. ?I would go with CNG type 4 tanks before I did gasoline. ?I can buy one brand new tank that will provide all the buoyancy I need for 2,500-3,000 ?or I can buy a used tank that is current until 2030 for 1,100 dollars plus shipping. ?Also the CNG tank only adds 105 lbs plus compressed air weight to the ?dry weight, making the sub easy to lift onto the deck of my proposed landing craft.Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 6:32 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I had another quick Google on collapsible petrol containers.There is a huge variety, with manufacturers offering tailor made?products.Here is a news item about them using them on the jetpack. They have a collapsible fuel tank strapped to their back.http://www.atlinc.com/newsreleases.htmlAlan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 11:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Alan,I am still considering that idea but Sean said NO ;-( ? It is cheap and I would have lots of exta buoyancy. ?This is good for Elementary 3,000 but not Elementary 12,000. ?I want to explore all ideas, ?and will end up where I started with spheres in epoxy ;-)Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 5:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,what happened to your idea of using composite tanks pressurised with air?As long as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a drop weight thatcould compensate for one failing, that would be ok wouldn't it?If you were filling to 3000psi, they wouldn't see external pressure till 6000ft.You could always test the idea at Nuytco.Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: LOL,I checked on the?compressibility and it will compress .5 percent, per 1,000 psi ?same as hydraulic oil. ? I have weighed two types of Olive oil today and the specific gravity is actually .86g\cc ?so it is to heavy. ?I can't seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc ? if you buy in bulk it is 5 dollars per kg ?so far.I am not even sure I can drive down the road with that much gas, mind you it would be hidden behind panels on the sub. ?Then there is the expansion while it sits in the hot weather. ?If the tree huggers heard about it they would crap in their pants and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run a VW van lol.Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 3:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,is that extra virgin or cold pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder pressure.Olive oil would be an expensive way to go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use it.?Not sure why you fear gasoline; they let women pump it in to their?cars at gas stations!Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,Thank you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, grrrr. ?I could go with those floats, but I do hope to build the next generation ?Elementary sub. ?I want to figure out the whole foam thing and possibly carry it over to the next sub. ?Alan has really?intrigued me with using gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me to stumble onto another liquid. ?In searching I have discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter than?gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the environment. ?I have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning. ? If anyone knows of a bad reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know. ?Olive Oil is .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that are .93 g\cc?Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Actually there are trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered Hank! Check out #629 below. http://trawlworks.com/floats.html Best, Alec On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: These guys have 14" spherical buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00??? with a positive buoyancy of 39 #??? they are not syntactic.? The syntactics start at 30" in dia ? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm???Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 +0000 (UTC) Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- spheres Greg From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hank,if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas.Hank On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,are you sure that's right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litreof gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these things.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those are nice, I can see other uses for them.? If I use gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement.??https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective.? There are of coarse some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns.? I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous.? Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles.? When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark.? Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\ccHank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam.? I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable.? I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving?? Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost difference would be.? Maybe the cost is still much better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres.? In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance.? That implies that the true strength comes from the resin.? Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work.? My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres.? After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil.? This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs. orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 24 16:21:51 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 20:21:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. References: <1400022732.1521371.1498335711686.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1400022732.1521371.1498335711686@mail.yahoo.com> Hank, What are your preliminary hull specs for Elementary 12000? -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 6/23/17, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Friday, June 23, 2017, 8:44 PM Hank,yes the gas tanks may be expensive.?You could possibly make a series of boxes for the petrol. Make a box out ofmarine ply, seal it with epoxy, drill a couple of holes in the bottom & glue ina flexible membrane across the inside bottom of the box. Then seal a top on?with a valve for filling. Just brain storming here!Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 1:12 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those look amazing and expensive. ?I am not saying it is not doable, I am just very?nervous due to lack of knowledge. ?I am sure with proper engineering and safety grounding it can be safe. ?I would go with CNG type 4 tanks before I did gasoline. ?I can buy one brand new tank that will provide all the buoyancy I need for 2,500-3,000 ?or I can buy a used tank that is current until 2030 for 1,100 dollars plus shipping. ?Also the CNG tank only adds 105 lbs plus compressed air weight to the ?dry weight, making the sub easy to lift onto the deck of my proposed landing craft.Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 6:32 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I had another quick Google on collapsible petrol containers.There is a huge variety, with manufacturers offering tailor made?products.Here is a news item about them using them on the jetpack. They have a collapsible fuel tank strapped to their back.http://www.atlinc.com/newsreleases.htmlAlan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 11:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Alan,I am still considering that idea but Sean said NO ;-( ? It is cheap and I would have lots of exta buoyancy. ?This is good for Elementary 3,000 but not Elementary 12,000. ?I want to explore all ideas, ?and will end up where I started with spheres in epoxy ;-)Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 5:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,what happened to your idea of using composite tanks pressurised with air?As long as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a drop weight thatcould compensate for one failing, that would be ok wouldn't it?If you were filling to 3000psi, they wouldn't see external pressure till 6000ft.You could always test the idea at Nuytco.Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: LOL,I checked on the?compressibility and it will compress .5 percent, per 1,000 psi ?same as hydraulic oil. ? I have weighed two types of Olive oil today and the specific gravity is actually .86g\cc ?so it is to heavy. ?I can't seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc ? if you buy in bulk it is 5 dollars per kg ?so far.I am not even sure I can drive down the road with that much gas, mind you it would be hidden behind panels on the sub. ?Then there is the expansion while it sits in the hot weather. ?If the tree huggers heard about it they would crap in their pants and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run a VW van lol.Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 3:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,is that extra virgin or cold pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder pressure.Olive oil would be an expensive way to go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use it.?Not sure why you fear gasoline; they let women pump it in to their?cars at gas stations!Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,Thank you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, grrrr. ?I could go with those floats, but I do hope to build the next generation ?Elementary sub. ?I want to figure out the whole foam thing and possibly carry it over to the next sub. ?Alan has really?intrigued me with using gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me to stumble onto another liquid. ?In searching I have discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter than?gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the environment. ?I have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning. ? If anyone knows of a bad reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know. ?Olive Oil is .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that are .93 g\cc?Hank On Friday, June 23, 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Actually there are trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered Hank! Check out #629 below. http://trawlworks.com/floats.html Best, Alec On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: These guys have 14" spherical buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00??? with a positive buoyancy of 39 #??? they are not syntactic.? The syntactics start at 30" in dia ? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm???Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 +0000 (UTC) Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- spheres Greg From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hank,if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas.Hank On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,are you sure that's right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litreof gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these things.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those are nice, I can see other uses for them.? If I use gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement.??https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective.? There are of coarse some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns.? I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous.? Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles.? When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark.? Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\ccHank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam.? I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable.? I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving?? Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost difference would be.? Maybe the cost is still much better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres.? In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance.? That implies that the true strength comes from the resin.? Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work.? My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres.? After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil.? This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 24 19:35:18 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 23:35:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <1400022732.1521371.1498335711686@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1400022732.1521371.1498335711686.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1400022732.1521371.1498335711686@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1549808701.1642852.1498347318753@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Pete,Elementary 12,000 ?will have a 48 inch by ?3.25 in thick occupant sphere 516-70 steel, and it will weigh 8,000 lbs. ?The port and hatch will be combined, and the hatch land will be a bolt in place part. ?I will machine the conical opening with my own flange facing machine. ?If I achieve the accuracy with the land that ?I have with Elementary, 3000 that will be great, if not then I will have it re-machined professionally. ?The new sphere will go in place of the sphere in Elementary 3000 and all the parts will be swapped out. ?That is the plan?Hank On Saturday, June 24, 2017 2:22 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, What are your preliminary hull specs for Elementary 12000? -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 6/23/17, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Friday, June 23, 2017, 8:44 PM Hank,yes the gas tanks may be expensive.?You could possibly make a series of boxes for the petrol. Make a box out ofmarine ply, seal it with epoxy, drill a couple of holes in the bottom & glue ina flexible membrane across the inside bottom of the box. Then seal a top on?with a valve for filling. Just brain storming here!Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 1:12 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those look amazing and expensive. ?I am not saying it is not doable, I am just very?nervous due to lack of knowledge. ?I am sure with proper engineering and safety grounding it can be safe. ?I would go with CNG type 4 tanks before I did gasoline. ?I can buy one brand new tank that will provide all the buoyancy I need for 2,500-3,000 ?or I can buy a used tank that is current until 2030 for 1,100 dollars plus shipping. ?Also the CNG tank only adds 105 lbs plus compressed air weight to the ?dry weight, making the sub easy to lift onto the deck of my proposed landing craft.Hank ? ? On Friday, June 23, 2017 6:32 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hank,I had another quick Google on collapsible petrol containers.There is a huge variety, with manufacturers offering tailor made?products.Here is a news item about them using them on the jetpack. They have a collapsible fuel tank strapped to their back.http://www.atlinc.com/newsreleases.htmlAlan ? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 11:16 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. ? Alan,I am still considering that idea but Sean said NO ;-( ? It is cheap and I would have lots of exta buoyancy. ?This is good for Elementary 3,000 but not Elementary 12,000. ?I want to explore all ideas, ?and will end up where I started with spheres in epoxy ;-)Hank ? ? On Friday, June 23, 2017 5:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hank,what happened to your idea of using composite tanks pressurised with air?As long as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a drop weight thatcould compensate for one failing, that would be ok wouldn't it?If you were filling to 3000psi, they wouldn't see external pressure till 6000ft.You could always test the idea at Nuytco.Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: LOL,I checked on the?compressibility and it will compress .5 percent, per 1,000 psi ?same as hydraulic oil. ? I have weighed two types of Olive oil today and the specific gravity is actually .86g\cc ?so it is to heavy. ?I can't seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc ? if you buy in bulk it is 5 dollars per kg ?so far.I am not even sure I can drive down the road with that much gas, mind you it would be hidden behind panels on the sub. ?Then there is the expansion while it sits in the hot weather. ?If the tree huggers heard about it they would crap in their pants and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run a VW van lol.Hank ? ? On Friday, June 23, 2017 3:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hank,is that extra virgin or cold pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder pressure.Olive oil would be an expensive way to go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use it.?Not sure why you fear gasoline; they let women pump it in to their?cars at gas stations!Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,Thank you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, grrrr. ?I could go with those floats, but I do hope to build the next generation ?Elementary sub. ?I want to figure out the whole foam thing and possibly carry it over to the next sub. ?Alan has really?intrigued me with using gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me to stumble onto another liquid. ?In searching I have discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter than?gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the environment. ?I have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning. ? If anyone knows of a bad reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know. ?Olive Oil is .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that are .93 g\cc?Hank ? ? On Friday, June 23, 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Actually there are trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered Hank! Check out #629 below. http://trawlworks.com/floats.html Best, Alec On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: These guys have 14" spherical buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00??? with a positive buoyancy of 39 #??? they are not syntactic.? The syntactics start at 30" in dia ? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm???Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 +0000 (UTC) Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- spheres Greg ? ? ? From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. ? Hank,if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas.Hank ? ? On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank,are you sure that's right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litreof gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these things.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those are nice, I can see other uses for them.? If I use gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement.??https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective.? There are of coarse some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns.? I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous.? Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles.? When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark.? Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\ccHank ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam.? I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable.? I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving?? Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost difference would be.? Maybe the cost is still much better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres.? In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance.? That implies that the true strength comes from the resin.? Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank ? ? On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17? 12:38 PM? (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work.? My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres.? After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil.? This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 24 20:59:29 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 00:59:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <1549808701.1642852.1498347318753@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1400022732.1521371.1498335711686.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1400022732.1521371.1498335711686@mail.yahoo.com> <1549808701.1642852.1498347318753@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1639173264.1661016.1498352369862@mail.yahoo.com> WOW ! Are you going to rotate the sphere to have the port ( I assume you mean View Port) where you want it ? You seem to have cracked quite a few nuts that challenged Psubbers. What about Thru hulls for control, power, life support, comm, etc. Battery banks ( I'm especially interested in this. I am working on a design of a K350 variant and I don't the like battery pods Thrusters? and compansation. I hope you win the lottery some day. From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hi Pete,Elementary 12,000 ?will have a 48 inch by ?3.25 in thick occupant sphere 516-70 steel, and it will weigh 8,000 lbs. ?The port and hatch will be combined, and the hatch land will be a bolt in place part. ?I will machine the conical opening with my own flange facing machine. ?If I achieve the accuracy with the land that ?I have with Elementary, 3000 that will be great, if not then I will have it re-machined professionally. ?The new sphere will go in place of the sphere in Elementary 3000 and all the parts will be swapped out. ?That is the plan?Hank On Saturday, June 24, 2017 2:22 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, What are your preliminary hull specs for Elementary 12000? -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 6/23/17, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Friday, June 23, 2017, 8:44 PM Hank,yes the gas tanks may be expensive.?You could possibly make a series of boxes for the petrol. Make a box out ofmarine ply, seal it with epoxy, drill a couple of holes in the bottom & glue ina flexible membrane across the inside bottom of the box. Then seal a top on?with a valve for filling. Just brain storming here!Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 1:12 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those look amazing and expensive. ?I am not saying it is not doable, I am just very?nervous due to lack of knowledge. ?I am sure with proper engineering and safety grounding it can be safe. ?I would go with CNG type 4 tanks before I did gasoline. ?I can buy one brand new tank that will provide all the buoyancy I need for 2,500-3,000 ?or I can buy a used tank that is current until 2030 for 1,100 dollars plus shipping. ?Also the CNG tank only adds 105 lbs plus compressed air weight to the ?dry weight, making the sub easy to lift onto the deck of my proposed landing craft.Hank ? ? On Friday, June 23, 2017 6:32 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hank,I had another quick Google on collapsible petrol containers.There is a huge variety, with manufacturers offering tailor made?products.Here is a news item about them using them on the jetpack. They have a collapsible fuel tank strapped to their back.http://www.atlinc.com/newsreleases.htmlAlan ? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 11:16 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. ? Alan,I am still considering that idea but Sean said NO ;-( ? It is cheap and I would have lots of exta buoyancy. ?This is good for Elementary 3,000 but not Elementary 12,000. ?I want to explore all ideas, ?and will end up where I started with spheres in epoxy ;-)Hank ? ? On Friday, June 23, 2017 5:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hank,what happened to your idea of using composite tanks pressurised with air?As long as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a drop weight thatcould compensate for one failing, that would be ok wouldn't it?If you were filling to 3000psi, they wouldn't see external pressure till 6000ft.You could always test the idea at Nuytco.Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: LOL,I checked on the?compressibility and it will compress .5 percent, per 1,000 psi ?same as hydraulic oil. ? I have weighed two types of Olive oil today and the specific gravity is actually .86g\cc ?so it is to heavy. ?I can't seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc ? if you buy in bulk it is 5 dollars per kg ?so far.I am not even sure I can drive down the road with that much gas, mind you it would be hidden behind panels on the sub. ?Then there is the expansion while it sits in the hot weather. ?If the tree huggers heard about it they would crap in their pants and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run a VW van lol.Hank ? ? On Friday, June 23, 2017 3:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hank,is that extra virgin or cold pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder pressure.Olive oil would be an expensive way to go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use it.?Not sure why you fear gasoline; they let women pump it in to their?cars at gas stations!Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,Thank you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, grrrr. ?I could go with those floats, but I do hope to build the next generation ?Elementary sub. ?I want to figure out the whole foam thing and possibly carry it over to the next sub. ?Alan has really?intrigued me with using gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me to stumble onto another liquid. ?In searching I have discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter than?gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the environment. ?I have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning. ? If anyone knows of a bad reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know. ?Olive Oil is .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that are .93 g\cc?Hank ? ? On Friday, June 23, 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Actually there are trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered Hank! Check out #629 below. http://trawlworks.com/floats.html Best, Alec On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: These guys have 14" spherical buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00??? with a positive buoyancy of 39 #??? they are not syntactic.? The syntactics start at 30" in dia ? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm???Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 +0000 (UTC) Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- spheres Greg ? ? ? From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. ? Hank,if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas.Hank ? ? On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank,are you sure that's right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litreof gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these things.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those are nice, I can see other uses for them.? If I use gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement.??https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective.? There are of coarse some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns.? I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous.? Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles.? When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark.? Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\ccHank ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam.? I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable.? I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving?? Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost difference would be.? Maybe the cost is still much better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres.? In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance.? That implies that the true strength comes from the resin.? Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank ? ? On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17? 12:38 PM? (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work.? My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres.? After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil.? This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 24 21:11:45 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 01:11:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <1639173264.1661016.1498352369862@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1400022732.1521371.1498335711686.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1400022732.1521371.1498335711686@mail.yahoo.com> <1549808701.1642852.1498347318753@mail.yahoo.com> <1639173264.1661016.1498352369862@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1736950815.1669274.1498353105243@mail.yahoo.com> Pete,A lottery win would help ,lol. ?I will not rotate the sphere, I will launch it with me in it, in the correct orientation. ? I will go old school with the batteries and use oil filled lead acid, for simplicity and low cost. ?Personally if I were building a K350 variant, I would not ?bother with pods, I would have AGM internal batteries. ?Again for cost, simplicity and speed of construction, increase the hull diameter to 42 inches while your at it. ? Emile has the perfect set up, I would copy that.Hank On Saturday, June 24, 2017 7:00 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: WOW ! Are you going to rotate the sphere to have the port ( I assume you mean View Port) where you want it ? You seem to have cracked quite a few nuts that challenged Psubbers. What about Thru hulls for control, power, life support, comm, etc. Battery banks ( I'm especially interested in this. I am working on a design of a K350 variant and I don't the like battery pods Thrusters? and compansation. I hope you win the lottery some day. From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hi Pete,Elementary 12,000 ?will have a 48 inch by ?3.25 in thick occupant sphere 516-70 steel, and it will weigh 8,000 lbs. ?The port and hatch will be combined, and the hatch land will be a bolt in place part. ?I will machine the conical opening with my own flange facing machine. ?If I achieve the accuracy with the land that ?I have with Elementary, 3000 that will be great, if not then I will have it re-machined professionally. ?The new sphere will go in place of the sphere in Elementary 3000 and all the parts will be swapped out. ?That is the plan?Hank On Saturday, June 24, 2017 2:22 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, What are your preliminary hull specs for Elementary 12000? -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 6/23/17, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Friday, June 23, 2017, 8:44 PM Hank,yes the gas tanks may be expensive.?You could possibly make a series of boxes for the petrol. Make a box out ofmarine ply, seal it with epoxy, drill a couple of holes in the bottom & glue ina flexible membrane across the inside bottom of the box. Then seal a top on?with a valve for filling. Just brain storming here!Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 1:12 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those look amazing and expensive. ?I am not saying it is not doable, I am just very?nervous due to lack of knowledge. ?I am sure with proper engineering and safety grounding it can be safe. ?I would go with CNG type 4 tanks before I did gasoline. ?I can buy one brand new tank that will provide all the buoyancy I need for 2,500-3,000 ?or I can buy a used tank that is current until 2030 for 1,100 dollars plus shipping. ?Also the CNG tank only adds 105 lbs plus compressed air weight to the ?dry weight, making the sub easy to lift onto the deck of my proposed landing craft.Hank ? ? On Friday, June 23, 2017 6:32 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hank,I had another quick Google on collapsible petrol containers.There is a huge variety, with manufacturers offering tailor made?products.Here is a news item about them using them on the jetpack. They have a collapsible fuel tank strapped to their back.http://www.atlinc.com/newsreleases.htmlAlan ? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 11:16 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. ? Alan,I am still considering that idea but Sean said NO ;-( ? It is cheap and I would have lots of exta buoyancy. ?This is good for Elementary 3,000 but not Elementary 12,000. ?I want to explore all ideas, ?and will end up where I started with spheres in epoxy ;-)Hank ? ? On Friday, June 23, 2017 5:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hank,what happened to your idea of using composite tanks pressurised with air?As long as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a drop weight thatcould compensate for one failing, that would be ok wouldn't it?If you were filling to 3000psi, they wouldn't see external pressure till 6000ft.You could always test the idea at Nuytco.Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: LOL,I checked on the?compressibility and it will compress .5 percent, per 1,000 psi ?same as hydraulic oil. ? I have weighed two types of Olive oil today and the specific gravity is actually .86g\cc ?so it is to heavy. ?I can't seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc ? if you buy in bulk it is 5 dollars per kg ?so far.I am not even sure I can drive down the road with that much gas, mind you it would be hidden behind panels on the sub. ?Then there is the expansion while it sits in the hot weather. ?If the tree huggers heard about it they would crap in their pants and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run a VW van lol.Hank ? ? On Friday, June 23, 2017 3:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hank,is that extra virgin or cold pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder pressure.Olive oil would be an expensive way to go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use it.?Not sure why you fear gasoline; they let women pump it in to their?cars at gas stations!Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,Thank you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, grrrr. ?I could go with those floats, but I do hope to build the next generation ?Elementary sub. ?I want to figure out the whole foam thing and possibly carry it over to the next sub. ?Alan has really?intrigued me with using gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me to stumble onto another liquid. ?In searching I have discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter than?gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the environment. ?I have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning. ? If anyone knows of a bad reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know. ?Olive Oil is .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that are .93 g\cc?Hank ? ? On Friday, June 23, 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Actually there are trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered Hank! Check out #629 below. http://trawlworks.com/floats.html Best, Alec On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: These guys have 14" spherical buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00??? with a positive buoyancy of 39 #??? they are not syntactic.? The syntactics start at 30" in dia ? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm???Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 +0000 (UTC) Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- spheres Greg ? ? ? From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. ? Hank,if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas.Hank ? ? On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank,are you sure that's right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litreof gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these things.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those are nice, I can see other uses for them.? If I use gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement.??https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective.? There are of coarse some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns.? I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous.? Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles.? When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark.? Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\ccHank ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam.? I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable.? I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving?? Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost difference would be.? Maybe the cost is still much better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres.? In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance.? That implies that the true strength comes from the resin.? Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank ? ? On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17? 12:38 PM? (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work.? My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres.? After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil.? This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 24 22:46:57 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 02:46:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. References: <595521130.1732225.1498358817299.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <595521130.1732225.1498358817299@mail.yahoo.com> Yeah it's 42 " but with 12 batteries aft it puts me ass heavy and I need 1200 lbs to balance it which put me over budget ballast wise. -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 6/24/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Saturday, June 24, 2017, 8:11 PM Pete,A lottery win would help ,lol. ?I will not rotate the sphere, I will launch it with me in it, in the correct orientation. ? I will go old school with the batteries and use oil filled lead acid, for simplicity and low cost. ?Personally if I were building a K350 variant, I would not ?bother with pods, I would have AGM internal batteries. ?Again for cost, simplicity and speed of construction, increase the hull diameter to 42 inches while your at it. ? Emile has the perfect set up, I would copy that.Hank On Saturday, June 24, 2017 7:00 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: WOW ! Are you going to rotate the sphere to have the port ( I assume you mean View Port) where you want it ? You seem to have cracked quite a few nuts that challenged Psubbers. What about Thru hulls for control, power, life support, comm, etc. Battery banks ( I'm especially interested in this. I am working on a design of a K350 variant and I don't the like battery pods Thrusters? and compansation. I hope you win the lottery some day. From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hi Pete,Elementary 12,000 ?will have a 48 inch by ?3.25 in thick occupant sphere 516-70 steel, and it will weigh 8,000 lbs. ?The port and hatch will be combined, and the hatch land will be a bolt in place part. ?I will machine the conical opening with my own flange facing machine. ?If I achieve the accuracy with the land that ?I have with Elementary, 3000 that will be great, if not then I will have it re-machined professionally. ?The new sphere will go in place of the sphere in Elementary 3000 and all the parts will be swapped out. ?That is the plan?Hank On Saturday, June 24, 2017 2:22 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, What are your preliminary hull specs for Elementary 12000? -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 6/23/17, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Friday, June 23, 2017, 8:44 PM Hank,yes the gas tanks may be expensive.?You could possibly make a series of boxes for the petrol. Make a box out ofmarine ply, seal it with epoxy, drill a couple of holes in the bottom & glue ina flexible membrane across the inside bottom of the box. Then seal a top on?with a valve for filling. Just brain storming here!Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 1:12 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those look amazing and expensive. ?I am not saying it is not doable, I am just very?nervous due to lack of knowledge. ?I am sure with proper engineering and safety grounding it can be safe. ?I would go with CNG type 4 tanks before I did gasoline. ?I can buy one brand new tank that will provide all the buoyancy I need for 2,500-3,000 ?or I can buy a used tank that is current until 2030 for 1,100 dollars plus shipping. ?Also the CNG tank only adds 105 lbs plus compressed air weight to the ?dry weight, making the sub easy to lift onto the deck of my proposed landing craft.Hank ? ? On Friday, June 23, 2017 6:32 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hank,I had another quick Google on collapsible petrol containers.There is a huge variety, with manufacturers offering tailor made?products.Here is a news item about them using them on the jetpack. They have a collapsible fuel tank strapped to their back.http://www.atlinc.com/newsreleases.htmlAlan ? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 11:16 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. ? Alan,I am still considering that idea but Sean said NO ;-( ? It is cheap and I would have lots of exta buoyancy. ?This is good for Elementary 3,000 but not Elementary 12,000. ?I want to explore all ideas, ?and will end up where I started with spheres in epoxy ;-)Hank ? ? On Friday, June 23, 2017 5:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hank,what happened to your idea of using composite tanks pressurised with air?As long as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a drop weight thatcould compensate for one failing, that would be ok wouldn't it?If you were filling to 3000psi, they wouldn't see external pressure till 6000ft.You could always test the idea at Nuytco.Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: LOL,I checked on the?compressibility and it will compress .5 percent, per 1,000 psi ?same as hydraulic oil. ? I have weighed two types of Olive oil today and the specific gravity is actually .86g\cc ?so it is to heavy. ?I can't seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc ? if you buy in bulk it is 5 dollars per kg ?so far.I am not even sure I can drive down the road with that much gas, mind you it would be hidden behind panels on the sub. ?Then there is the expansion while it sits in the hot weather. ?If the tree huggers heard about it they would crap in their pants and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run a VW van lol.Hank ? ? On Friday, June 23, 2017 3:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hank,is that extra virgin or cold pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder pressure.Olive oil would be an expensive way to go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use it.?Not sure why you fear gasoline; they let women pump it in to their?cars at gas stations!Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,Thank you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, grrrr. ?I could go with those floats, but I do hope to build the next generation ?Elementary sub. ?I want to figure out the whole foam thing and possibly carry it over to the next sub. ?Alan has really?intrigued me with using gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me to stumble onto another liquid. ?In searching I have discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter than?gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the environment. ?I have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning. ? If anyone knows of a bad reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know. ?Olive Oil is .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that are .93 g\cc?Hank ? ? On Friday, June 23, 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Actually there are trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered Hank! Check out #629 below. http://trawlworks.com/floats.html Best, Alec On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: These guys have 14" spherical buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00??? with a positive buoyancy of 39 #??? they are not syntactic.? The syntactics start at 30" in dia ? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm???Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 +0000 (UTC) Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- spheres Greg ? ? ? From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. ? Hank,if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas.Hank ? ? On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank,are you sure that's right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litreof gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these things.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those are nice, I can see other uses for them.? If I use gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement.??https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective.? There are of coarse some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns.? I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous.? Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles.? When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark.? Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\ccHank ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam.? I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable.? I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving?? Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost difference would be.? Maybe the cost is still much better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres.? In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance.? That implies that the true strength comes from the resin.? Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank ? ? On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17? 12:38 PM? (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work.? My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres.? After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil.? This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 24 22:52:05 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 02:52:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <595521130.1732225.1498358817299@mail.yahoo.com> References: <595521130.1732225.1498358817299.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <595521130.1732225.1498358817299@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1018983205.1734239.1498359125309@mail.yahoo.com> Pete,Not sure what your planning, but I have 8 AGM 6v and two extra for my travel motors. ?Unless your planning long transits, you can drop 4 batteries. ?With the efficiencies ?found in lighting etc, 8 batteries is lots. ?Can you move your batteries forward a pinch.Hank On Saturday, June 24, 2017 8:47 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yeah it's 42 " but with 12 batteries aft it puts me ass heavy and I need 1200 lbs to balance it which put me over budget ballast wise. -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 6/24/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Saturday, June 24, 2017, 8:11 PM Pete,A lottery win would help ,lol. ?I will not rotate the sphere, I will launch it with me in it, in the correct orientation. ? I will go old school with the batteries and use oil filled lead acid, for simplicity and low cost. ?Personally if I were building a K350 variant, I would not ?bother with pods, I would have AGM internal batteries. ?Again for cost, simplicity and speed of construction, increase the hull diameter to 42 inches while your at it. ? Emile has the perfect set up, I would copy that.Hank ? ? ? On Saturday, June 24, 2017 7:00 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? WOW ! Are you going to rotate the sphere to have the port ( I assume you mean View Port) where you want it ? You seem to have cracked quite a few nuts that challenged Psubbers. What about Thru hulls for control, power, life support, comm, etc. Battery banks ( I'm especially interested in this. I am working on a design of a K350 variant and I don't the like battery pods Thrusters? and compansation. I hope you win the lottery some day. ? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 6:38 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. ? Hi Pete,Elementary 12,000 ?will have a 48 inch by ?3.25 in thick occupant sphere 516-70 steel, and it will weigh 8,000 lbs. ?The port and hatch will be combined, and the hatch land will be a bolt in place part. ?I will machine the conical opening with my own flange facing machine. ?If I achieve the accuracy with the land that ?I have with Elementary, 3000 that will be great, if not then I will have it re-machined professionally. ?The new sphere will go in place of the sphere in Elementary 3000 and all the parts will be swapped out. ?That is the plan?Hank ? ? On Saturday, June 24, 2017 2:22 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hank, What are your preliminary hull specs for Elementary 12000? -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 6/23/17, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Date: Friday, June 23, 2017, 8:44 PM ? ? Hank,yes the gas tanks may ? be expensive.?You could possibly make ? a series of boxes for the petrol. Make a box out ? ofmarine ? ply, seal it with epoxy, drill a couple of holes in the ? bottom & glue ina flexible membrane ? across the inside bottom of the box. Then seal a top ? on?with a valve for filling. Just brain storming here!Alan ? ? Sent ? from my iPad ? On ? 24/06/2017, at 1:12 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? ? wrote: ? ? Alan,Those ? look amazing and expensive. ?I am not saying it is not ? doable, I am just very?nervous due to lack of ? knowledge. ?I am sure with proper engineering and safety ? grounding it can be safe. ?I would go with CNG type 4 tanks ? before I did gasoline. ?I can buy one brand new tank that ? will provide all the buoyancy I need for 2,500-3,000 ?or I ? can buy a used tank that is current until 2030 for 1,100 ? dollars plus shipping. ?Also the CNG tank only adds 105 lbs ? plus compressed air weight to the ?dry weight, making the ? sub easy to lift onto the deck of my proposed landing ? craft.Hank ? ? ?? On Friday, June 23, ? 2017 6:32 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ?? ? ? Hank,I had ? another quick Google on collapsible petrol containers.There ? is a huge variety, with manufacturers offering tailor ? made?products.Here ? is a news item about them using them on the jetpack. They ? have a collapsible ? fuel tank strapped to their back.http://www.atlinc.com/newsreleases.htmlAlan ? ? ? ? ? ?? ?? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal ? Submersibles General Discussion ? ? Sent: Saturday, June ? 24, 2017 11:16 AM ? Subject: Re: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. ?? ? ? Alan,I am ? still considering that idea but Sean said NO ;-( ? It is ? cheap and I would have lots of exta buoyancy. ?This is good ? for Elementary 3,000 but not Elementary 12,000. ?I want to ? explore all ideas, ?and will end up where I started with ? spheres in epoxy ;-)Hank ? ? ? ?? On Friday, June 23, 2017 5:01 PM, ? Alan via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ?? ? ? Hank,what happened to your ? idea of using composite tanks pressurised with ? air?As long as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a ? drop weight thatcould compensate for ? one failing, that would be ok wouldn't it?If you were filling to ? 3000psi, they wouldn't see external pressure till ? 6000ft.You ? could always test the idea at Nuytco.Alan ? Sent from my iPad ? On ? 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? ? LOL,I ? checked on the?compressibility and it will compress ? .5 percent, per 1,000 psi ?same as hydraulic oil. ? I have ? weighed two types of Olive oil today and the specific ? gravity is actually .86g\cc ?so it is to heavy. ?I ? can't seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc ? ? if you buy in bulk it is 5 dollars per kg ?so ? far.I am not even sure I can drive down the road with that much gas, ? mind you it would be hidden behind panels on the sub. ?Then ? there is the expansion while it sits in the hot weather. ? ?If the tree huggers heard about it they would crap in ? their pants and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run ? a VW van lol.Hank ? ? ? ?? On Friday, June 23, ? 2017 3:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ?? ? ? Hank,is that extra virgin or ? cold pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder ? pressure.Olive oil would be an ? expensive way to go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use ? it.?Not ? sure why you fear gasoline; they let women pump it in to ? their?cars ? at gas stations!Cheers Alan ? Sent ? from my iPad ? On ? 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? ? wrote: ? ? Alec,Thank ? you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, ? grrrr. ?I could go with those floats, but I do hope to ? build the next generation ?Elementary sub. ?I want to ? figure out the whole foam thing and possibly carry it over ? to the next sub. ?Alan has really?intrigued me with using ? gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me ? to stumble onto another liquid. ?In searching I have ? discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter ? than?gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the ? environment. ?I have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning. ? If anyone knows of a bad ? reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know. ?Olive Oil is ? .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that ? are .93 g\cc?Hank ? ? ? ?? On Friday, June 23, ? 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ?? ? ? Actually there are ? trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered ? Hank! Check out #629 below. ? http://trawlworks.com/floats.html ? ? Best, ? ? Alec ? On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at ? 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? These guys have 14" ? spherical buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00??? with ? a positive buoyancy of 39 #??? they are not syntactic.? ? The syntactics start at 30" in dia ? ? ? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm???Brian? ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. ? org wrote: ? ? From: james ? cottrell via Personal_Submersibles ? To: ? Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic ? foam. ? Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 ? +0000 (UTC) ? Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi ? http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- ? spheres ? ? Greg ? ? ? ?? ? From: Alan via ? Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal ? Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Monday, June 12, ? 2017 6:18 PM ? Subject: Re: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. ?? ? ? Hank,if you ? are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need ? 184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan ? Sent from my iPad ? On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp ? gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 ? lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons ? of gas.Hank ? ? ? ?? On Monday, June 12, ? 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?? ? ? ? Hank,are you sure that's ? right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( ? nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 ? of the weight of water. So every litreof gas ? gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these ? things.Cheers Alan ? ? Sent from my iPad ? On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Alan,Those ? are nice, I can see other uses for them.? If I use ? gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, ? gasoline is better. ? ? ?? On Sunday, June 11, ? 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?? ? ? Maybe ? something like this collapsable plastic fuel ? tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or ? a grate arrangement.??https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan ? Sent from my iPad ? On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via ? Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Alan,Yes I ? have, it is very simple and effective.? There are of coarse ? some?hazardous logistical problems not to ? mention?environmental concerns.? I would opt for ? diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have ? plastic and gas it is dangerous.? Last week I did a barge ? job replacing dock piles.? When I walked up and down the ? plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I ? got a spark.? Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at ? .8g\ccHank ? ? ?? On Sunday, June 11, ? 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?? ? ? ? Hank,have you looked at using ? gasoline?More volume required for the same ? floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the ? holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as ? youcould use it after the dive. If you designed ? right you could fill the tanksat your ? destination.Alan ? ? Sent from my iPad ? On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via ? Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Greg,that sounds good, ? I would love to find a more cost effective foam.? I still ? want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the ? foam cost is not manageable.? I estimate I can build a ? ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is ? foam. ?;-(Hank ? ? ?? On Sunday, June 11, ? 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?? ? ? Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by ? other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the ? biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is ? there a saving?? Using wax?means you have to use a ? deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement ? provided by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost ? difference would be.? Maybe the cost is still much ? better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is ? not the expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, ? to look for a replacement for the spheres.? In Cliff's ? report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance.? That implies that the true strength comes ? from the resin.? Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam ? granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe it is a ? simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank ? ? ?? On Sunday, June 11, ? 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?? ? ? Hi Scott,Thanks ? for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank ? ? ?? On Saturday, June 10, ? 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?? ? ? ? Hank, ? Hola from Costa Rica! ? Depends on if they are glass or ? carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all ? pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on ? Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we ? want.? ? I do have a ? ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell ? you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott ? Waters ? ? ? Sent from my ? U.S. Cellular? Smartphone ? -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via ? Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17? 12:38 PM? (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic ? foam. ? I have an idea, but not sure if it will work.? ? My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro ? and micro spheres.? After the container is as full as ? possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil.? ? This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less ? complicated and cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the ? spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with ? the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres ? delicate? ?Hank______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles ? mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ? ?? ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles ? mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ? ?? ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles ? mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ? ?? ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing ? list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles ? mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ? ?? ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing ? list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles ? mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ? ?? ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing ? list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles ? mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ? ?? ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing ? list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles ? mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ? ? ? ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ?? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing ? list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ?? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing ? list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ?? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ?? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing ? list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 24 22:52:57 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 02:52:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Meet George References: <691304960.1700991.1498359178606.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <691304960.1700991.1498359178606@mail.yahoo.com> -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 6/24/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Saturday, June 24, 2017, 8:11 PM Pete,A lottery win would help ,lol. ?I will not rotate the sphere, I will launch it with me in it, in the correct orientation. ? I will go old school with the batteries and use oil filled lead acid, for simplicity and low cost. ?Personally if I were building a K350 variant, I would not ?bother with pods, I would have AGM internal batteries. ?Again for cost, simplicity and speed of construction, increase the hull diameter to 42 inches while your at it. ? Emile has the perfect set up, I would copy that.Hank On Saturday, June 24, 2017 7:00 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: WOW ! Are you going to rotate the sphere to have the port ( I assume you mean View Port) where you want it ? You seem to have cracked quite a few nuts that challenged Psubbers. What about Thru hulls for control, power, life support, comm, etc. Battery banks ( I'm especially interested in this. I am working on a design of a K350 variant and I don't the like battery pods Thrusters? and compansation. I hope you win the lottery some day. From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Hi Pete,Elementary 12,000 ?will have a 48 inch by ?3.25 in thick occupant sphere 516-70 steel, and it will weigh 8,000 lbs. ?The port and hatch will be combined, and the hatch land will be a bolt in place part. ?I will machine the conical opening with my own flange facing machine. ?If I achieve the accuracy with the land that ?I have with Elementary, 3000 that will be great, if not then I will have it re-machined professionally. ?The new sphere will go in place of the sphere in Elementary 3000 and all the parts will be swapped out. ?That is the plan?Hank On Saturday, June 24, 2017 2:22 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, What are your preliminary hull specs for Elementary 12000? -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 6/23/17, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Friday, June 23, 2017, 8:44 PM Hank,yes the gas tanks may be expensive.?You could possibly make a series of boxes for the petrol. Make a box out ofmarine ply, seal it with epoxy, drill a couple of holes in the bottom & glue ina flexible membrane across the inside bottom of the box. Then seal a top on?with a valve for filling. Just brain storming here!Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 1:12 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those look amazing and expensive. ?I am not saying it is not doable, I am just very?nervous due to lack of knowledge. ?I am sure with proper engineering and safety grounding it can be safe. ?I would go with CNG type 4 tanks before I did gasoline. ?I can buy one brand new tank that will provide all the buoyancy I need for 2,500-3,000 ?or I can buy a used tank that is current until 2030 for 1,100 dollars plus shipping. ?Also the CNG tank only adds 105 lbs plus compressed air weight to the ?dry weight, making the sub easy to lift onto the deck of my proposed landing craft.Hank ? ? On Friday, June 23, 2017 6:32 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hank,I had another quick Google on collapsible petrol containers.There is a huge variety, with manufacturers offering tailor made?products.Here is a news item about them using them on the jetpack. They have a collapsible fuel tank strapped to their back.http://www.atlinc.com/newsreleases.htmlAlan ? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 11:16 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. ? Alan,I am still considering that idea but Sean said NO ;-( ? It is cheap and I would have lots of exta buoyancy. ?This is good for Elementary 3,000 but not Elementary 12,000. ?I want to explore all ideas, ?and will end up where I started with spheres in epoxy ;-)Hank ? ? On Friday, June 23, 2017 5:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hank,what happened to your idea of using composite tanks pressurised with air?As long as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a drop weight thatcould compensate for one failing, that would be ok wouldn't it?If you were filling to 3000psi, they wouldn't see external pressure till 6000ft.You could always test the idea at Nuytco.Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: LOL,I checked on the?compressibility and it will compress .5 percent, per 1,000 psi ?same as hydraulic oil. ? I have weighed two types of Olive oil today and the specific gravity is actually .86g\cc ?so it is to heavy. ?I can't seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc ? if you buy in bulk it is 5 dollars per kg ?so far.I am not even sure I can drive down the road with that much gas, mind you it would be hidden behind panels on the sub. ?Then there is the expansion while it sits in the hot weather. ?If the tree huggers heard about it they would crap in their pants and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run a VW van lol.Hank ? ? On Friday, June 23, 2017 3:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hank,is that extra virgin or cold pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder pressure.Olive oil would be an expensive way to go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use it.?Not sure why you fear gasoline; they let women pump it in to their?cars at gas stations!Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,Thank you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, grrrr. ?I could go with those floats, but I do hope to build the next generation ?Elementary sub. ?I want to figure out the whole foam thing and possibly carry it over to the next sub. ?Alan has really?intrigued me with using gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me to stumble onto another liquid. ?In searching I have discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter than?gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the environment. ?I have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning. ? If anyone knows of a bad reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know. ?Olive Oil is .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that are .93 g\cc?Hank ? ? On Friday, June 23, 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Actually there are trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered Hank! Check out #629 below. http://trawlworks.com/floats.html Best, Alec On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: These guys have 14" spherical buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00??? with a positive buoyancy of 39 #??? they are not syntactic.? The syntactics start at 30" in dia ? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm???Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 +0000 (UTC) Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- spheres Greg ? ? ? From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. ? Hank,if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need 184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons of gas.Hank ? ? On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank,are you sure that's right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So every litreof gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these things.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Those are nice, I can see other uses for them.? If I use gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, gasoline is better. ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement.??https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective.? There are of coarse some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns.? I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have plastic and gas it is dangerous.? Last week I did a barge job replacing dock piles.? When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I got a spark.? Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at .8g\ccHank ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan Sent from my iPad On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam.? I still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost is not manageable.? I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is there a saving?? Using wax?means you have to use a deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost difference would be.? Maybe the cost is still much better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the spheres.? In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance.? That implies that the true strength comes from the resin.? Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank ? ? On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank ? ? On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank, Hola from Costa Rica! Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.? I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17? 12:38 PM? (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. I have an idea, but not sure if it will work.? My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres.? After the container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil.? This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less complicated and cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: a5 28 2017 George_NEW.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 251579 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 25 00:45:13 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 21:45:13 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Message-ID: <20170624214513.C6B27E0D@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 25 03:43:18 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 19:43:18 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Meet George In-Reply-To: <691304960.1700991.1498359178606@mail.yahoo.com> References: <691304960.1700991.1498359178606.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <691304960.1700991.1498359178606@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <63ADD77F-66FC-4D6D-8943-D14D51C828A0@yahoo.com> Nice CAD work Pete, I am not sure about your thruster placements. I like the idea of redundant horizontal thrusters but not sure about having them in line. Carl Stanley's Idabel has 4 horizontal thrusters, but has them in two sets side by side. Also the kort nozzles of the vertical thrusters seem to be in the way of the thrust from the horizontal thrusters. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/06/2017, at 2:52 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 6/24/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ement > Date: Saturday, June 24, 2017, 8:11 e idea > the > > Pete,A > lottery win would help ,lol. I will not rotate the sphere, > I will launch it with me in it, in the correct orientation. > I will go old school with the batteries and use oil > filled lead acid, for simplicity and low cost. Personally > if I were building a K350 variant, I would not bother with > pods, I would have AGM internal batteries. Again for cost, > simplicity and speed of construction, increase the hull > diameter to 42 inches while your at it. Emile has the > perfect set up, I would copy that.Hank > > > On Saturday, June 24, 2017 7:00 PM, Pete > Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > WOW ! > Are you going to rotate the sphere to have the port ( I > assume you mean View Port) where you want it ? > You > seem to have cracked quite a few nuts that challenged > Psubbers. > What > about > > Thru > hulls for control, power, life support, comm, etc. > Battery > banks ( I'm especially interested in this. I am working > on a design of a K350 variant and I don't the like > battery pods > > Thrusters > and compansation. > I > hope you win the lottery some day. > > > > > From: hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: > Saturday, June 24, 2017 6:38 PM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > > > Hi Pete,Elementary > 12,000 will have a 48 inch by 3.25 in thick occupant > sphere 516-70 steel, and it will weigh 8,000 lbs. The port > and hatch will be combined, and the hatch land will be a > bolt in place part. I will machine the conical opening > with my own flange facing machine. If I achieve the > accuracy with the land that I have with Elementary, 3000 > that will be great, if not then I will have it re-machined > professionally. The new sphere will go in place of the > sphere in Elementary 3000 and all the parts will be swapped > out. That is the plan Hank > > > > On Saturday, June 24, > 2017 2:22 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hank, What are your preliminary hull specs for > Elementary 12000? > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 6/23/17, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > To: "Personal Submersibles General > Discussion" > Date: Friday, June 23, > 2017, 8:44 PM > > Hank,yes the gas tanks > may > be expensive. You > could possibly make > a > series of boxes for the petrol. Make a box out > ofmarine > ply, seal it with epoxy, > drill a couple of holes in the > bottom & glue ina flexible membrane > across the inside bottom > of the box. Then seal a top > on with a > > valve for filling. Just brain storming here!Alan > > Sent > from my iPad > On > 24/06/2017, at 1:12 PM, > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > Alan,Those > look amazing and > expensive. I am not saying it is not > doable, I am just > very nervous due to lack of > knowledge. I am sure with proper engineering > and safety > grounding > it can be safe. I would go with CNG type 4 tanks > before I did gasoline. > I can buy one brand new tank that > will provide all the > buoyancy I need for 2,500-3,000 or I > can buy a used tank that > is current until 2030 for 1,100 > dollars plus shipping. Also the CNG tank only > adds 105 lbs > plus > compressed air weight to the dry weight, making the > sub easy to lift onto the > deck of my proposed landing > craft.Hank > > > > On Friday, June > 23, > 2017 6:32 PM, Alan > James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hank,I had > another quick Google on > collapsible petrol > > containers.There > is a > huge variety, with manufacturers offering tailor > made products.Here > is a news item about them > using them on the jetpack. They > have a collapsible > fuel tank strapped to their > back.http://www.atlinc.com/newsreleases.htmlAlan > > > > > > From: hank pronk > via > > Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal > Submersibles General > Discussion > > Sent: Saturday, June > 24, 2017 11:16 AM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic > foam. > > > Alan,I am > still considering that > idea but Sean said NO ;-( It is > cheap and I would have > lots of exta buoyancy. This is good > for Elementary 3,000 but > not Elementary 12,000. I want to > explore all ideas, and > will end up where I started with > spheres in epoxy ;-)Hank > > > On Friday, June 23, > 2017 5:01 PM, > Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hank,what happened to > your > idea of using > composite tanks pressurised with > air?As long > > as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a > drop weight thatcould > compensate for > one > failing, that would be ok wouldn't it?If you were > filling to > 3000psi, > they wouldn't see external pressure till > 6000ft.You > could always test the > idea at Nuytco.Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > On > 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, > hank pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > LOL,I > checked on > the compressibility and it will compress > .5 percent, per 1,000 psi > same as hydraulic oil. I have > weighed two types of > Olive oil today and the specific > gravity is actually .86g\cc so it is to > heavy. I > can't > seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc > if you buy in bulk it > is 5 dollars per kg so > far.I am > > not even sure I can drive down the road with that much > gas, > mind you it would > be hidden behind panels on the sub. Then > there is the expansion > while it sits in the hot weather. > If the tree huggers heard about it they would > crap in > their pants > and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run > a VW van lol.Hank > > > On Friday, June > 23, > 2017 3:53 PM, Alan > via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hank,is that extra > virgin or > cold > pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder > pressure.Olive oil would > be an > expensive way to > go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use > it. Not > sure why you fear > gasoline; they let women pump it in to > their cars > at gas stations!Cheers > Alan > Sent > from my iPad > On > 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > Alec,Thank > you, I should have bought > those instead of the 11 inch, > grrrr. I could go with those floats, but I do > hope to > build the next > generation Elementary sub. I want to > figure out the whole foam > thing and possibly carry it over > to the next sub. Alan has really intrigued me > with using > gasoline, I > am terrified of that idea but it has caused me > to stumble onto another > liquid. In searching I have > discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter > than gasoline, and > obviously safer for me and the > environment. I have no idea yet if it is an > option, I only > > stumbled onto it this morning. If anyone knows of a > bad > reason to use > Olive Oil, please let me know. Olive Oil is > .703 g\cc and I can > put it into plastic containers that > are .93 g\cc Hank > > > On Friday, June > 23, > 2017 9:28 AM, Alec > Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Actually there are > trawl floats rated to > 1800m. That should have you covered > Hank! Check out #629 > below. > http://trawlworks.com/floats.html > > Best, > > Alec > On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 > at > 1:21 PM, Brian Cox > via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > These guys have > 14" > spherical > buoys rated to 800 meters - $120.00 with > a positive buoyancy of 39 > # they are not syntactic. > The syntactics start at 30" in dia > > http://www.mooringsystems.com/ > > buoyancy.htm Brian > --- personal_submersibles at psubs. > org wrote: > > From: james > cottrell via > Personal_Submersibles org> > To: > Personal Submersibles > General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic > foam. > Date: > Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 > +0000 (UTC) > > > Deep sea glass floats > are rated for 10,000 > > psi > http://teledynebenthos.com/ > > product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- > spheres > > Greg > > > From: Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > org> > To: Personal > Submersibles General > Discussion org> > Sent: Monday, June > 12, > 2017 6:18 PM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic > foam. > > > Hank,if you > are getting 3lb of > floatation per gallon then you need > 184gallons of gas. 184 x > 3 = 552 ( near > > enough).Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 > AM, hank pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > Alan,I need 550 lbs > flotation and one imp > gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that > gives me 3 > lbs > buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons > of gas.Hank > > > On Monday, June > 12, > 2017 3:43 PM, Alan > via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > > > Hank,are you sure > that's > right!That > would give 1900kg of floatation ( > nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being > .71 > of the weight of > water. So every litreof gas > gives you about 290 grams of > floatation. Metric > > system is much easier for calculating these > things.Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 > PM, hank pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > Alan,Those > are nice, I can see other > uses for them. If I use > gasoline, I would need about 1,750 imperial > gallons for > > Elementary. I was mistaken about the liquid > paraffin, > gasoline is > better. > > On Sunday, June > 11, > 2017 11:36 PM, > Alan via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > > Maybe > something like this > collapsable plastic fuel > tank, inside a protective fibreglass housing, > or > a grate > arrangement. https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ > > atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan > Sent from my iPad > On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > org> wrote: > > Alan,Yes I > have, it is very simple > and effective. There are of coarse > some hazardous > logistical problems not to > mention environmental concerns. I would opt > for > diesel fuel to > reduce the fire hazard. Any time you have > plastic and gas it is > dangerous. Last week I did a barge > job replacing dock > piles. When I walked up and down the > plastic dock floats, > every time I touched the steel piles I > got a spark. Actually > Liquid paraffin is even better at > .8g\ccHank > > On > Sunday, June 11, > 2017 > 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > > > Hank,have you looked at > using > gasoline?More > volume required for the same > floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from > the > holding tanks it > would cost you nothing, as > youcould use it after the dive. If you > designed > right you > could fill the tanksat your > destination.Alan > > Sent from > my iPad > On 12/06/2017, > at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > Greg,that sounds good, > I would love to find a > more cost effective foam. I still > want to build one more > sub that goes much deeper, but the > foam cost is not > manageable. I estimate I can build a > Titanic capable sub > for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is > foam. ;-(Hank > > On Sunday, June > 11, > 2017 8:29 AM, hank > pronk via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > > Greg,There has to be > good reason to make foam by > other means than standard practices. Cost > would be the > biggest > reason, and using wax will probably work, but is > there a saving? Using > wax means you have to use a > deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of > reinforcement > provided > by the resin. I have no idea what the cost > difference would be. > Maybe the cost is still much > better. When I look at Cliff's report, the > resin is > not the > expensive part. Perhaps the direction should be, > to look for a replacement > for the spheres. In Cliff's > report it shows the resin triples the > sphere's > > performance. That implies that the true strength comes > from the resin. Maybe a > sawdust resin or a styrofoam > granule resin is worth looking at also. Maybe > it is a > simple as air > entrained resin?Fun to > > think about anyways.Hank > > On > Sunday, June 11, > 2017 > 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > > Hi Scott,Thanks > for the offer, but I need > foam for 3,000 > > feet.Hank > > On Saturday, June > 10, > 2017 9:03 PM, > Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > > > Hank, > Hola from Costa Rica! > Depends on if they are > glass or > carbon fiber > spheres and what size they are. They are all > pretty durable. We are > actually cutting up the foam on > Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we > want. > I do have a > ton of syntactic foam > that is cert to 400m that I'd sell > you for super cheap. Like > all of it for $200 > > Thanks,Scott > Waters > > > Sent from my > U.S. Cellular? > Smartphone > -------- > Original message > > --------From: hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles org> Date: 6/10/17 > 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > org> Subject: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic > foam. > I > have an idea, but not sure if it will work. > My idea is to fill a > neutrally buoyant container with macro > and micro spheres. > After the container is as full as > possible, then fill with an environmentally > friendly oil. > This > would be more buoyant than using a resin and less > complicated and > cheaper. My concern is, how well will the > spheres stand up against > breaking from being in contact with > the other spheres and the > container. Are these spheres > delicate? > > Hank______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > > > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > > > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > > > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > > > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > > > ______________________________ > _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > ______________________________ > _________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. > org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 25 06:58:37 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 10:58:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Meet George In-Reply-To: <63ADD77F-66FC-4D6D-8943-D14D51C828A0@yahoo.com> References: <691304960.1700991.1498359178606.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <691304960.1700991.1498359178606@mail.yahoo.com> <63ADD77F-66FC-4D6D-8943-D14D51C828A0@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1675339312.1858477.1498388317979@mail.yahoo.com> Pete,I didn't notice the drawings you sent, glad Alan mentioned them. ?That looks real robust, I love the deck! ?I think you would like more ports in the CT, I didn't realize the difference until I got Gamma with 8 ports. ?It really makes a huge difference. ?I almost tried the ?twin in line thruster idea, but chickened out, thinking it might be a problem, mind you, you might have them raked a bit and it doesn't show in the picture. ? I assume the aft tilted down cone is a MBT and the the two front tanks the same. ?What are the aft top tanks? HP air? ? Nice design, it is real practical to construct. ?It might be nice to get those HP bottles down lower, ?for balance, every bit helps. ?Hank? On Sunday, June 25, 2017 1:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nice CAD work Pete, I am not sure about your thruster placements. I like the idea of redundant horizontal thrusters but not sure about having them in line. Carl Stanley's Idabel has 4 horizontal thrusters, but has them in two sets side by side. Also the kort nozzles of the vertical thrusters seem to be in the way of the thrust from the horizontal thrusters. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/06/2017, at 2:52 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 6/24/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ement > Date: Saturday, June 24, 2017, 8:11 e idea > the > > Pete,A > lottery win would help ,lol.? I will not rotate the sphere, > I will launch it with me in it, in the correct orientation. >? I will go old school with the batteries and use oil > filled lead acid, for simplicity and low cost.? Personally > if I were building a K350 variant, I would not? bother with > pods, I would have AGM internal batteries.? Again for cost, > simplicity and speed of construction, increase the hull > diameter to 42 inches while your at it.? Emile has the > perfect set up, I would copy that.Hank > > >? ? On Saturday, June 24, 2017 7:00 PM, Pete > Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > >? WOW ! > Are you going to rotate the sphere to have the port ( I > assume you mean View Port) where you want it ? > You > seem to have cracked quite a few nuts that challenged > Psubbers. > What > about > > Thru > hulls for control, power, life support, comm, etc. > Battery > banks ( I'm especially interested in this. I am working > on a design of a K350 variant and I don't the like > battery pods > > Thrusters > and compansation. > I > hope you win the lottery some day. > > > > >? From: hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: > Saturday, June 24, 2017 6:38 PM >? Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > > > Hi Pete,Elementary > 12,000? will have a 48 inch by? 3.25 in thick occupant > sphere 516-70 steel, and it will weigh 8,000 lbs.? The port > and hatch will be combined, and the hatch land will be a > bolt in place part.? I will machine the conical opening > with my own flange facing machine.? If I achieve the > accuracy with the land that? I have with Elementary, 3000 > that will be great, if not then I will have it re-machined > professionally.? The new sphere will go in place of the > sphere in Elementary 3000 and all the parts will be swapped > out.? That is the plan Hank > > > >? ? On Saturday, June 24, > 2017 2:22 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > >? Hank, What are your preliminary hull specs for > Elementary 12000? > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 6/23/17, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >? Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. >? To: "Personal Submersibles General > Discussion" >? Date: Friday, June 23, > 2017, 8:44 PM > >? Hank,yes the gas tanks > may >? be expensive. You > could possibly make >? a > series of boxes for the petrol. Make a box out >? ofmarine >? ply, seal it with epoxy, > drill a couple of holes in the >? bottom & glue ina flexible membrane >? across the inside bottom > of the box. Then seal a top >? on with a > > valve for filling. Just brain storming here!Alan > >? Sent >? from my iPad >? On >? 24/06/2017, at 1:12 PM, > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >? >? wrote: > >? Alan,Those >? look amazing and > expensive.? I am not saying it is not >? doable, I am just > very nervous due to lack of >? knowledge.? I am sure with proper engineering > and safety >? grounding > it can be safe.? I would go with CNG type 4 tanks >? before I did gasoline. >? I can buy one brand new tank that >? will provide all the > buoyancy I need for 2,500-3,000? or I >? can buy a used tank that > is current until 2030 for 1,100 >? dollars plus shipping.? Also the CNG tank only > adds 105 lbs >? plus > compressed air weight to the? dry weight, making the >? sub easy to lift onto the > deck of my proposed landing >? craft.Hank > > > >? ? ? On Friday, June > 23, >? 2017 6:32 PM, Alan > James via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? ? > >? Hank,I had >? another quick Google on > collapsible petrol > > containers.There >? is a > huge variety, with manufacturers offering tailor >? made products.Here >? is a news item about them > using them on the jetpack. They >? have a collapsible >? fuel tank strapped to their > back.http://www.atlinc.com/newsreleases.htmlAlan > > > > >? ? ? >? ? From: hank pronk > via > > Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal >? Submersibles General > Discussion > >? Sent: Saturday, June >? 24, 2017 11:16 AM >? Subject: Re: >? [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic > foam. >? ? > >? Alan,I am >? still considering that > idea but Sean said NO ;-(? It is >? cheap and I would have > lots of exta buoyancy.? This is good >? for Elementary 3,000 but > not Elementary 12,000.? I want to >? explore all ideas,? and > will end up where I started with >? spheres in epoxy ;-)Hank > > >? ? ? On Friday, June 23, > 2017 5:01 PM, >? Alan via > Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? ? > >? Hank,what happened to > your >? idea of using > composite tanks pressurised with >? air?As long > > as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a >? drop weight thatcould > compensate for >? one > failing, that would be ok wouldn't it?If you were > filling to >? 3000psi, > they wouldn't see external pressure till >? 6000ft.You >? could always test the > idea at Nuytco.Alan > > >? Sent from my iPad >? On >? 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, > hank pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: > >? LOL,I >? checked on > the compressibility and it will compress >? .5 percent, per 1,000 psi >? same as hydraulic oil.? I have >? weighed two types of > Olive oil today and the specific >? gravity is actually .86g\cc? so it is to > heavy.? I >? can't > seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc >? ? if you buy in bulk it > is 5 dollars per kg? so >? far.I am > > not even sure I can drive down the road with that much > gas, >? mind you it would > be hidden behind panels on the sub.? Then >? there is the expansion > while it sits in the hot weather. >? If the tree huggers heard about it they would > crap in >? their pants > and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run >? a VW van lol.Hank > > >? ? ? On Friday, June > 23, >? 2017 3:53 PM, Alan > via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? ? > >? Hank,is that extra > virgin or >? cold > pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder >? pressure.Olive oil would > be an >? expensive way to > go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use >? it. Not >? sure why you fear > gasoline; they let women pump it in to >? their cars >? at gas stations!Cheers > Alan >? Sent >? from my iPad >? On >? 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >? >? wrote: > >? Alec,Thank >? you, I should have bought > those instead of the 11 inch, >? grrrr.? I could go with those floats, but I do > hope to >? build the next > generation? Elementary sub.? I want to >? figure out the whole foam > thing and possibly carry it over >? to the next sub.? Alan has really intrigued me > with using >? gasoline, I > am terrified of that idea but it has caused me >? to stumble onto another > liquid.? In searching I have >? discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter >? than gasoline, and > obviously safer for me and the >? environment.? I have no idea yet if it is an > option, I only > > stumbled onto it this morning.? If anyone knows of a > bad >? reason to use > Olive Oil, please let me know.? Olive Oil is >? .703 g\cc and I can > put it into plastic containers that >? are .93 g\cc Hank > > >? ? ? On Friday, June > 23, >? 2017 9:28 AM, Alec > Smyth via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? ? > >? Actually there are >? trawl floats rated to > 1800m. That should have you covered >? Hank! Check out #629 > below. >? http://trawlworks.com/floats.html > >? Best, > >? Alec >? On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 > at >? 1:21 PM, Brian Cox > via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? These guys have > 14" >? spherical > buoys rated to 800 meters? - $120.00? ? with >? a positive buoyancy of 39 > #? ? they are not syntactic. >? The syntactics start at 30" in dia >? >? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ > > buoyancy.htm? Brian >? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. >? org wrote: > >? From: james >? cottrell via > Personal_Submersibles ? org> >? To: >? Personal Submersibles > General Discussion ? org> >? Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic >? foam. >? Date: > Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 >? +0000 (UTC) > > >? Deep sea glass floats > are rated for 10,000 > > psi >? http://teledynebenthos.com/ > > product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- >? spheres > >? Greg > >? ? ? ? >? From: Alan via >? Personal_Submersibles > ? org> >? To: Personal >? Submersibles General > Discussion ? org> >? Sent: Monday, June > 12, >? 2017 6:18 PM >? Subject: Re: >? [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic > foam. >? ? > >? Hank,if you >? are getting 3lb of > floatation per gallon then you need >? 184gallons of gas. 184 x > 3 = 552 ( near > > enough).Cheers Alan > > >? Sent from my iPad >? On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 > AM, hank pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: > >? Alan,I need 550 lbs > flotation? and one imp >? gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that > gives me 3 >? lbs > buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons >? of gas.Hank > > >? ? ? On Monday, June > 12, >? 2017 3:43 PM, Alan > via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > > >? Hank,are you sure > that's >? right!That > would give 1900kg of floatation ( >? nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being > .71 >? of the weight of > water. So every litreof gas >? gives you about 290 grams of > floatation. Metric > > system is much easier for calculating these >? things.Cheers Alan > >? Sent from my iPad >? On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 > PM, hank pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: > >? Alan,Those >? are nice, I can see other > uses for them.? If I use >? gasoline, I would need about? 1,750 imperial > gallons for > > Elementary.? ? I was mistaken about the? liquid > paraffin, >? gasoline is > better. > >? ? ? On Sunday, June > 11, >? 2017 11:36 PM, > Alan via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > >? Maybe >? something like this > collapsable plastic fuel >? tank, inside a protective fibreglass housing, > or >? a grate > arrangement.? https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ > > atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan >? Sent from my iPad >? On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via >? Personal_Submersibles > ? org> wrote: > >? Alan,Yes I >? have, it is very simple > and effective.? There are of coarse >? some hazardous > logistical problems not to >? mention environmental concerns.? I would opt > for >? diesel fuel to > reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have >? plastic and gas it is > dangerous.? Last week I did a barge >? job replacing dock > piles.? When I walked up and down the >? plastic dock floats, > every time I touched the steel piles I >? got a spark.? Actually > Liquid paraffin is even better at >? .8g\ccHank > >? ? ? On > Sunday, June 11, >? 2017 > 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > > >? Hank,have you looked at > using >? gasoline?More > volume required for the same >? floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from > the >? holding tanks it > would cost you nothing, as >? youcould use it after the dive. If you > designed >? right you > could fill the tanksat your >? destination.Alan > >? Sent from > my iPad >? On 12/06/2017, > at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via >? Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: > >? Greg,that sounds good, >? I would love to find a > more cost effective foam.? I still >? want to build one more > sub that goes much deeper, but the >? foam cost is not > manageable.? I estimate I can build a >? Titanic capable sub >? for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is >? foam.? ;-(Hank > >? ? ? On Sunday, June > 11, >? 2017 8:29 AM, hank > pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > >? Greg,There has to be > good reason to make foam by >? other means than standard practices.? Cost > would be the >? biggest > reason, and using wax will probably work, but is >? there a saving?? Using > wax means you have to use a >? deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of > reinforcement >? provided > by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost >? difference would be. > Maybe the cost is still much >? better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the > resin is >? not the > expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, >? to look for a replacement > for the spheres.? In Cliff's >? report it shows the resin triples the > sphere's > > performance.? That implies that the true strength comes >? from the resin.? Maybe a > sawdust resin or a styrofoam >? granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe > it is a >? simple as air > entrained resin?Fun to > > think about anyways.Hank > >? ? ? On > Sunday, June 11, >? 2017 > 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > >? Hi Scott,Thanks >? for the offer, but I need > foam for 3,000 > > feet.Hank > >? ? ? On Saturday, June > 10, >? 2017 9:03 PM, > Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > > >? Hank, >? Hola from Costa Rica! >? Depends on if they are > glass or >? carbon fiber > spheres and what size they are. They are all >? pretty durable. We are > actually cutting up the foam on >? Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we >? want. >? I do have a >? ton of syntactic foam > that is cert to 400m that I'd sell >? you for super cheap. Like > all of it for $200 > > Thanks,Scott >? Waters > > >? Sent from my >? U.S. Cellular? > Smartphone >? -------- > Original message > > --------From: hank pronk via >? Personal_Submersibles ? org> Date: 6/10/17 > 12:38 PM? (GMT-06:00) > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? ? org> Subject: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic >? foam. >? I > have an idea, but not sure if it will work. >? My idea is to fill a > neutrally buoyant container with macro >? and micro spheres. > After the container is as full as >? possible, then fill with an environmentally > friendly oil. >? This > would be more buoyant than using a resin and less >? complicated and > cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the >? spheres stand up against > breaking from being in contact with >? the other spheres and the > container.? Are these spheres >? delicate? > >? Hank______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >? ? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >? ? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >? >? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >? >? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >? >? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >? >? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > >? ? > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > ______________________________ >? _________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org > >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >? >? ? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >? >? ? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >? ? ? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >? ? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >? >? ? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >? ? _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 25 07:01:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 11:01:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <20170624214513.C6B27E0D@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20170624214513.C6B27E0D@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: <144242534.1870181.1498388509634@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,The plan is 12,000 feet and the sphere is a CNG storage sphere, also I miss spoke, it weighs 8,500 lbs.?Hank On Saturday, June 24, 2017 10:45 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Holy crap Hank,? How deep will this thing go ??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 02:52:05 +0000 (UTC) Pete,Not sure what your planning, but I have 8 AGM 6v and two extra for my travel motors. ?Unless your planning long transits, you can drop 4 batteries. ?With the efficiencies ?found in lighting etc, 8 batteries is lots. ?Can you move your batteries forward a pinch.Hank On Saturday, June 24, 2017 8:47 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yeah it's 42 " but with 12 batteries aft it puts me ass heavy and I need 1200 lbs to balance it which put me over budget ballast wise. -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 6/24/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Saturday, June 24, 2017, 8:11 PM Pete,A lottery win would help ,lol. ?I will not rotate the sphere, I will launch it with me in it, in the correct orientation. ? I will go old school with the batteries and use oil filled lead acid, for simplicity and low cost. ?Personally if I were building a K350 variant, I would not ?bother with pods, I would have AGM internal batteries. ?Again for cost, simplicity and speed of construction, increase the hull diameter to 42 inches while your at it. ? Emile has the perfect set up, I would copy that.Hank ? ? ? On Saturday, June 24, 2017 7:00 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? WOW ! Are you going to rotate the sphere to have the port ( I assume you mean View Port) where you want it ? You seem to have cracked quite a few nuts that challenged Psubbers. What about Thru hulls for control, power, life support, comm, etc. Battery banks ( I'm especially interested in this. I am working on a design of a K350 variant and I don't the like battery pods Thrusters? and compansation. I hope you win the lottery some day. ? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 6:38 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. ? Hi Pete,Elementary 12,000 ?will have a 48 inch by ?3.25 in thick occupant sphere 516-70 steel, and it will weigh 8,000 lbs. ?The port and hatch will be combined, and the hatch land will be a bolt in place part. ?I will machine the conical opening with my own flange facing machine. ?If I achieve the accuracy with the land that ?I have with Elementary, 3000 that will be great, if not then I will have it re-machined professionally. ?The new sphere will go in place of the sphere in Elementary 3000 and all the parts will be swapped out. ?That is the plan?Hank ? ? On Saturday, June 24, 2017 2:22 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hank, What are your preliminary hull specs for Elementary 12000? -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 6/23/17, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Date: Friday, June 23, 2017, 8:44 PM ? ? Hank,yes the gas tanks may ? be expensive.?You could possibly make ? a series of boxes for the petrol. Make a box out ? ofmarine ? ply, seal it with epoxy, drill a couple of holes in the ? bottom & glue ina flexible membrane ? across the inside bottom of the box. Then seal a top ? on?with a valve for filling. Just brain storming here!Alan ? ? Sent ? from my iPad ? On ? 24/06/2017, at 1:12 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? ? wrote: ? ? Alan,Those ? look amazing and expensive. ?I am not saying it is not ? doable, I am just very?nervous due to lack of ? knowledge. ?I am sure with proper engineering and safety ? grounding it can be safe. ?I would go with CNG type 4 tanks ? before I did gasoline. ?I can buy one brand new tank that ? will provide all the buoyancy I need for 2,500-3,000 ?or I ? can buy a used tank that is current until 2030 for 1,100 ? dollars plus shipping. ?Also the CNG tank only adds 105 lbs ? plus compressed air weight to the ?dry weight, making the ? sub easy to lift onto the deck of my proposed landing ? craft.Hank ? ? ?? On Friday, June 23, ? 2017 6:32 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ?? ? ? Hank,I had ? another quick Google on collapsible petrol containers.There ? is a huge variety, with manufacturers offering tailor ? made?products.Here ? is a news item about them using them on the jetpack. They ? have a collapsible ? fuel tank strapped to their back.http://www.atlinc.com/newsreleases.htmlAlan ? ? ? ? ? ?? ?? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal ? Submersibles General Discussion ? ? Sent: Saturday, June ? 24, 2017 11:16 AM ? Subject: Re: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. ?? ? ? Alan,I am ? still considering that idea but Sean said NO ;-( ? It is ? cheap and I would have lots of exta buoyancy. ?This is good ? for Elementary 3,000 but not Elementary 12,000. ?I want to ? explore all ideas, ?and will end up where I started with ? spheres in epoxy ;-)Hank ? ? ? ?? On Friday, June 23, 2017 5:01 PM, ? Alan via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ?? ? ? Hank,what happened to your ? idea of using composite tanks pressurised with ? air?As long as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a ? drop weight thatcould compensate for ? one failing, that would be ok wouldn't it?If you were filling to ? 3000psi, they wouldn't see external pressure till ? 6000ft.You ? could always test the idea at Nuytco.Alan ? Sent from my iPad ? On ? 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? ? LOL,I ? checked on the?compressibility and it will compress ? .5 percent, per 1,000 psi ?same as hydraulic oil. ? I have ? weighed two types of Olive oil today and the specific ? gravity is actually .86g\cc ?so it is to heavy. ?I ? can't seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc ? ? if you buy in bulk it is 5 dollars per kg ?so ? far.I am not even sure I can drive down the road with that much gas, ? mind you it would be hidden behind panels on the sub. ?Then ? there is the expansion while it sits in the hot weather. ? ?If the tree huggers heard about it they would crap in ? their pants and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run ? a VW van lol.Hank ? ? ? ?? On Friday, June 23, ? 2017 3:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ?? ? ? Hank,is that extra virgin or ? cold pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder ? pressure.Olive oil would be an ? expensive way to go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use ? it.?Not ? sure why you fear gasoline; they let women pump it in to ? their?cars ? at gas stations!Cheers Alan ? Sent ? from my iPad ? On ? 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? ? wrote: ? ? Alec,Thank ? you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, ? grrrr. ?I could go with those floats, but I do hope to ? build the next generation ?Elementary sub. ?I want to ? figure out the whole foam thing and possibly carry it over ? to the next sub. ?Alan has really?intrigued me with using ? gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me ? to stumble onto another liquid. ?In searching I have ? discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter ? than?gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the ? environment. ?I have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning. ? If anyone knows of a bad ? reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know. ?Olive Oil is ? .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that ? are .93 g\cc?Hank ? ? ? ?? On Friday, June 23, ? 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ?? ? ? Actually there are ? trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered ? Hank! Check out #629 below. ? http://trawlworks.com/floats.html ? ? Best, ? ? Alec ? On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at ? 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? These guys have 14" ? spherical buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00??? with ? a positive buoyancy of 39 #??? they are not syntactic.? ? The syntactics start at 30" in dia ? ? ? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm???Brian? ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. ? org wrote: ? ? From: james ? cottrell via Personal_Submersibles ? To: ? Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic ? foam. ? Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 ? +0000 (UTC) ? Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi ? http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- ? spheres ? ? Greg ? ? ? ?? ? From: Alan via ? Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal ? Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Monday, June 12, ? 2017 6:18 PM ? Subject: Re: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. ?? ? ? Hank,if you ? are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need ? 184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan ? Sent from my iPad ? On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp ? gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 ? lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons ? of gas.Hank ? ? ? ?? On Monday, June 12, ? 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?? ? ? ? Hank,are you sure that's ? right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( ? nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 ? of the weight of water. So every litreof gas ? gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these ? things.Cheers Alan ? ? Sent from my iPad ? On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Alan,Those ? are nice, I can see other uses for them.? If I use ? gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, ? gasoline is better. ? ? ?? On Sunday, June 11, ? 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?? ? ? Maybe ? something like this collapsable plastic fuel ? tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or ? a grate arrangement.??https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan ? Sent from my iPad ? On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via ? Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Alan,Yes I ? have, it is very simple and effective.? There are of coarse ? some?hazardous logistical problems not to ? mention?environmental concerns.? I would opt for ? diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have ? plastic and gas it is dangerous.? Last week I did a barge ? job replacing dock piles.? When I walked up and down the ? plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I ? got a spark.? Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at ? .8g\ccHank ? ? ?? On Sunday, June 11, ? 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?? ? ? ? Hank,have you looked at using ? gasoline?More volume required for the same ? floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the ? holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as ? youcould use it after the dive. If you designed ? right you could fill the tanksat your ? destination.Alan ? ? Sent from my iPad ? On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via ? Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Greg,that sounds good, ? I would love to find a more cost effective foam.? I still ? want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the ? foam cost is not manageable.? I estimate I can build a ? ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is ? foam. ?;-(Hank ? ? ?? On Sunday, June 11, ? 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?? ? ? Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by ? other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the ? biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is ? there a saving?? Using wax?means you have to use a ? deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement ? provided by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost ? difference would be.? Maybe the cost is still much ? better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is ? not the expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, ? to look for a replacement for the spheres.? In Cliff's ? report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance.? That implies that the true strength comes ? from the resin.? Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam ? granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe it is a ? simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank ? ? ?? On Sunday, June 11, ? 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?? ? ? Hi Scott,Thanks ? for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank ? ? ?? On Saturday, June 10, ? 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?? ? ? ? Hank, ? Hola from Costa Rica! ? Depends on if they are glass or ? carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all ? pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on ? Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we ? want.? ? I do have a ? ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell ? you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott ? Waters ? ? ? Sent from my ? U.S. Cellular? Smartphone ? -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via ? Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17? 12:38 PM? (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic ? foam. ? I have an idea, but not sure if it will work.? ? My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro ? and micro spheres.? After the container is as full as ? possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil.? ? This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less ? complicated and cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the ? spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with ? the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres ? delicate? ?Hank______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles ? mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ? ?? ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles ? mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ? ?? ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles ? mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ? ?? ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing ? list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles ? mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ? ?? ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing ? list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles ? mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ? ?? ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing ? list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles ? mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ? ?? ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing ? list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles ? mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ? ? ? ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ?? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing ? list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ?? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing ? list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ?? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ?? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing ? list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 25 09:27:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 06:27:56 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Message-ID: <20170625062756.C6AFD4B5@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 25 14:31:37 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 18:31:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. In-Reply-To: <20170625062756.C6AFD4B5@m0117460.ppops.net> References: <20170625062756.C6AFD4B5@m0117460.ppops.net> Message-ID: <141184751.2088077.1498415497560@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,I want to dive to Titanic in a submarine that I built.?Hank On Sunday, June 25, 2017 7:28 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I can't even comprehend that !???? Do you have a destination in mind ??? I saw that number bandied about but it was not registrating , well you have the experience moving houses !??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 11:01:49 +0000 (UTC) Brian,The plan is 12,000 feet and the sphere is a CNG storage sphere, also I miss spoke, it weighs 8,500 lbs.?Hank On Saturday, June 24, 2017 10:45 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Holy crap Hank,? How deep will this thing go ??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 02:52:05 +0000 (UTC) Pete,Not sure what your planning, but I have 8 AGM 6v and two extra for my travel motors. ?Unless your planning long transits, you can drop 4 batteries. ?With the efficiencies ?found in lighting etc, 8 batteries is lots. ?Can you move your batteries forward a pinch.Hank On Saturday, June 24, 2017 8:47 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yeah it's 42 " but with 12 batteries aft it puts me ass heavy and I need 1200 lbs to balance it which put me over budget ballast wise. -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 6/24/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Saturday, June 24, 2017, 8:11 PM Pete,A lottery win would help ,lol. ?I will not rotate the sphere, I will launch it with me in it, in the correct orientation. ? I will go old school with the batteries and use oil filled lead acid, for simplicity and low cost. ?Personally if I were building a K350 variant, I would not ?bother with pods, I would have AGM internal batteries. ?Again for cost, simplicity and speed of construction, increase the hull diameter to 42 inches while your at it. ? Emile has the perfect set up, I would copy that.Hank ? ? ? On Saturday, June 24, 2017 7:00 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? WOW ! Are you going to rotate the sphere to have the port ( I assume you mean View Port) where you want it ? You seem to have cracked quite a few nuts that challenged Psubbers. What about Thru hulls for control, power, life support, comm, etc. Battery banks ( I'm especially interested in this. I am working on a design of a K350 variant and I don't the like battery pods Thrusters? and compansation. I hope you win the lottery some day. ? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 6:38 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. ? Hi Pete,Elementary 12,000 ?will have a 48 inch by ?3.25 in thick occupant sphere 516-70 steel, and it will weigh 8,000 lbs. ?The port and hatch will be combined, and the hatch land will be a bolt in place part. ?I will machine the conical opening with my own flange facing machine. ?If I achieve the accuracy with the land that ?I have with Elementary, 3000 that will be great, if not then I will have it re-machined professionally. ?The new sphere will go in place of the sphere in Elementary 3000 and all the parts will be swapped out. ?That is the plan?Hank ? ? On Saturday, June 24, 2017 2:22 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hank, What are your preliminary hull specs for Elementary 12000? -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 6/23/17, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Date: Friday, June 23, 2017, 8:44 PM ? ? Hank,yes the gas tanks may ? be expensive.?You could possibly make ? a series of boxes for the petrol. Make a box out ? ofmarine ? ply, seal it with epoxy, drill a couple of holes in the ? bottom & glue ina flexible membrane ? across the inside bottom of the box. Then seal a top ? on?with a valve for filling. Just brain storming here!Alan ? ? Sent ? from my iPad ? On ? 24/06/2017, at 1:12 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? ? wrote: ? ? Alan,Those ? look amazing and expensive. ?I am not saying it is not ? doable, I am just very?nervous due to lack of ? knowledge. ?I am sure with proper engineering and safety ? grounding it can be safe. ?I would go with CNG type 4 tanks ? before I did gasoline. ?I can buy one brand new tank that ? will provide all the buoyancy I need for 2,500-3,000 ?or I ? can buy a used tank that is current until 2030 for 1,100 ? dollars plus shipping. ?Also the CNG tank only adds 105 lbs ? plus compressed air weight to the ?dry weight, making the ? sub easy to lift onto the deck of my proposed landing ? craft.Hank ? ? ?? On Friday, June 23, ? 2017 6:32 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ?? ? ? Hank,I had ? another quick Google on collapsible petrol containers.There ? is a huge variety, with manufacturers offering tailor ? made?products.Here ? is a news item about them using them on the jetpack. They ? have a collapsible ? fuel tank strapped to their back.http://www.atlinc.com/newsreleases.htmlAlan ? ? ? ? ? ?? ?? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal ? Submersibles General Discussion ? ? Sent: Saturday, June ? 24, 2017 11:16 AM ? Subject: Re: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. ?? ? ? Alan,I am ? still considering that idea but Sean said NO ;-( ? It is ? cheap and I would have lots of exta buoyancy. ?This is good ? for Elementary 3,000 but not Elementary 12,000. ?I want to ? explore all ideas, ?and will end up where I started with ? spheres in epoxy ;-)Hank ? ? ? ?? On Friday, June 23, 2017 5:01 PM, ? Alan via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ?? ? ? Hank,what happened to your ? idea of using composite tanks pressurised with ? air?As long as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a ? drop weight thatcould compensate for ? one failing, that would be ok wouldn't it?If you were filling to ? 3000psi, they wouldn't see external pressure till ? 6000ft.You ? could always test the idea at Nuytco.Alan ? Sent from my iPad ? On ? 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? ? LOL,I ? checked on the?compressibility and it will compress ? .5 percent, per 1,000 psi ?same as hydraulic oil. ? I have ? weighed two types of Olive oil today and the specific ? gravity is actually .86g\cc ?so it is to heavy. ?I ? can't seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc ? ? if you buy in bulk it is 5 dollars per kg ?so ? far.I am not even sure I can drive down the road with that much gas, ? mind you it would be hidden behind panels on the sub. ?Then ? there is the expansion while it sits in the hot weather. ? ?If the tree huggers heard about it they would crap in ? their pants and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run ? a VW van lol.Hank ? ? ? ?? On Friday, June 23, ? 2017 3:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ?? ? ? Hank,is that extra virgin or ? cold pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder ? pressure.Olive oil would be an ? expensive way to go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use ? it.?Not ? sure why you fear gasoline; they let women pump it in to ? their?cars ? at gas stations!Cheers Alan ? Sent ? from my iPad ? On ? 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? ? wrote: ? ? Alec,Thank ? you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, ? grrrr. ?I could go with those floats, but I do hope to ? build the next generation ?Elementary sub. ?I want to ? figure out the whole foam thing and possibly carry it over ? to the next sub. ?Alan has really?intrigued me with using ? gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me ? to stumble onto another liquid. ?In searching I have ? discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter ? than?gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the ? environment. ?I have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning. ? If anyone knows of a bad ? reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know. ?Olive Oil is ? .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that ? are .93 g\cc?Hank ? ? ? ?? On Friday, June 23, ? 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ?? ? ? Actually there are ? trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you covered ? Hank! Check out #629 below. ? http://trawlworks.com/floats.html ? ? Best, ? ? Alec ? On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at ? 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? These guys have 14" ? spherical buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00??? with ? a positive buoyancy of 39 #??? they are not syntactic.? ? The syntactics start at 30" in dia ? ? ? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm???Brian? ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. ? org wrote: ? ? From: james ? cottrell via Personal_Submersibles ? To: ? Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic ? foam. ? Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 ? +0000 (UTC) ? Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi ? http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- ? spheres ? ? Greg ? ? ? ?? ? From: Alan via ? Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal ? Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Monday, June 12, ? 2017 6:18 PM ? Subject: Re: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. ?? ? ? Hank,if you ? are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need ? 184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan ? Sent from my iPad ? On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp ? gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 ? lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons ? of gas.Hank ? ? ? ?? On Monday, June 12, ? 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?? ? ? ? Hank,are you sure that's ? right!That would give 1900kg of floatation ( ? nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 ? of the weight of water. So every litreof gas ? gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is much easier for calculating these ? things.Cheers Alan ? ? Sent from my iPad ? On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Alan,Those ? are nice, I can see other uses for them.? If I use ? gasoline, I would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken about the ?liquid paraffin, ? gasoline is better. ? ? ?? On Sunday, June 11, ? 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?? ? ? Maybe ? something like this collapsable plastic fuel ? tank,?inside a protective fibreglass housing, or ? a grate arrangement.??https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan ? Sent from my iPad ? On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via ? Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Alan,Yes I ? have, it is very simple and effective.? There are of coarse ? some?hazardous logistical problems not to ? mention?environmental concerns.? I would opt for ? diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have ? plastic and gas it is dangerous.? Last week I did a barge ? job replacing dock piles.? When I walked up and down the ? plastic dock floats, every time I touched the steel piles I ? got a spark.? Actually Liquid paraffin is even better at ? .8g\ccHank ? ? ?? On Sunday, June 11, ? 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?? ? ? ? Hank,have you looked at using ? gasoline?More volume required for the same ? floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the ? holding tanks it would cost you nothing, as ? youcould use it after the dive. If you designed ? right you could fill the tanksat your ? destination.Alan ? ? Sent from my iPad ? On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via ? Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Greg,that sounds good, ? I would love to find a more cost effective foam.? I still ? want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the ? foam cost is not manageable.? I estimate I can build a ? ?Titanic capable sub ?for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is ? foam. ?;-(Hank ? ? ?? On Sunday, June 11, ? 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?? ? ? Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by ? other means than standard practices. ? Cost would be the ? biggest reason, and using wax will probably work, but is ? there a saving?? Using wax?means you have to use a ? deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement ? provided by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost ? difference would be.? Maybe the cost is still much ? better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is ? not the expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, ? to look for a replacement for the spheres.? In Cliff's ? report it shows the resin triples the sphere's performance.? That implies that the true strength comes ? from the resin.? Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam ? granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe it is a ? simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about anyways.Hank ? ? ?? On Sunday, June 11, ? 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?? ? ? Hi Scott,Thanks ? for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank ? ? ?? On Saturday, June 10, ? 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?? ? ? ? Hank, ? Hola from Costa Rica! ? Depends on if they are glass or ? carbon fiber spheres and what size they are. They are all ? pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on ? Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we ? want.? ? I do have a ? ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell ? you for super cheap. Like all of it for $200 Thanks,Scott ? Waters ? ? ? Sent from my ? U.S. Cellular? Smartphone ? -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via ? Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/10/17? 12:38 PM? (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic ? foam. ? I have an idea, but not sure if it will work.? ? My idea is to fill a neutrally buoyant container with macro ? and micro spheres.? After the container is as full as ? possible, then fill with an environmentally friendly oil.? ? This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less ? complicated and cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the ? spheres stand up against breaking from being in contact with ? the other spheres and the container. ? Are these spheres ? delicate? ?Hank______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles ? mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ? ?? ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles ? mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ? ?? ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles ? mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ? ?? ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing ? list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles ? mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ? ?? ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing ? list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles ? mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ? ?? ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing ? list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles ? mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ? ?? ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing ? list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles ? mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ? ? ? ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ______________________________ ? _________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. ? org ? ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ ? listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ?? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing ? list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ?? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing ? list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ?? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ?? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing ? list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 25 19:16:51 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 11:16:51 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wireless control In-Reply-To: <1677718777.1292838.1498306240459@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1677718777.1292838.1498306240459.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1677718777.1292838.1498306240459@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <07F2689A-D60F-4C4C-B0C8-3532BDA7B121@yahoo.com> Hank, no you don't have to have an electrical degree from MIT but it will help if you know someone who does. If your control box has joy sticks on it with potentiometers that send out 0-5Volts, you could chop off the signal wires or maybe just solder in wires to this device..... http://www.astroflight.com/rcpwm2v It takes the signal from a radio control receiver & outputs it as a 0-5V signal. So you need a radio control transmitter & receiver with at least 4 channels & one of those units for each motor; providing the voltage is compatible. The radio control transmitters are a bit difficult to set up if you are not familiar with all the RC terms & would probably be better left to some nerdy kid! Another way that it could be done is to fit similar valued potentiometers as you have on your joy stick, on to the signal wire. Then buy a servo ( thing that operates the aileron on a RC plane) & attach that on to the spindle of the potentiometer. The servo is plugged in to a channel on the RC receiver ( RC receiver needs 5 Volts), now when you operate the joy stick on your RC transmitter instead of moving the aileron up & down it turns the potentiometer one way or the other, controlling forward & back & speed. You could have a switch incorporated to change from radio control to manual. I am not sure how the radio signals would work inside a metal hull, maybe buy a RC to & try it out first! ( good excuse) A lot of modern motor controllers have a RC signal port. Jon was looking at a motor controller that had that facility, not sure if he bought it. Other than that, there is a lot happening in the robotics World with radio controlled battle bots etc; they are controlling a number of motors off RC. There may be videos or advice on how to do it on their forums; however a lot of their controllers aren't capable of the voltage & amperage we use. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/06/2017, at 12:10 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > Gamma has this stupid multi wire cable that goes from the electric panel to the hand control box. The box has speed control for 4 motors and forward and reverse for the 4 motors. Can I make that remote without an electrical engineering degree from MIT > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 25 20:05:39 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 00:05:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wireless control In-Reply-To: <07F2689A-D60F-4C4C-B0C8-3532BDA7B121@yahoo.com> References: <1677718777.1292838.1498306240459.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1677718777.1292838.1498306240459@mail.yahoo.com> <07F2689A-D60F-4C4C-B0C8-3532BDA7B121@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <108956914.2226255.1498435539214@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Alan,Thanks for the input, I have used servo's before and was worried that might be the only way. ?The big issue really is the darn wire is quite stiff, maybe I should try to find a better cable first, mind you, the rc controllers are pretty nice to handle. ?Hank On Sunday, June 25, 2017 5:17 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,no you don't have to have an electrical degree from MIT but it willhelp if you know someone who does.If your control box has joy sticks on it with potentiometers that send out0-5Volts, you could chop off the signal wires or maybe just solder in wires to thisdevice.....http://www.astroflight.com/rcpwm2vIt takes the signal from a ?radio control receiver & outputs it as a 0-5V signal.So you need a radio control transmitter & receiver with at least 4 channels &one of those units for each motor; providing the ?voltage is compatible.The radio control transmitters are a bit difficult to set up if you are not familiarwith all the RC terms & would probably be better left to some nerdy kid!? ?Another way that it could be done is to fit similar valued potentiometers as you?have on your joy stick, on to the signal wire. Then buy a servo ( thing that operatesthe aileron on a RC plane) & attach that on to the spindle of the potentiometer.The servo is plugged in to a channel on the RC receiver ( RC receiver needs 5 Volts),now when you operate the joy stick on your RC transmitter instead of movingthe aileron up & down it turns the potentiometer one way or the other, controllingforward & back & speed.?You could have a switch incorporated to change from radio control to manual.I am not sure how the radio signals would work inside a metal hull, maybe buya RC to & try it out first! ( good excuse)A lot of modern motor controllers have a RC signal port. Jon was looking at a motorcontroller that had that facility, not sure if he bought it.Other than that, there is a lot happening in the robotics World with radio controlled?battle bots etc; they are controlling a number of motors off RC. There may bevideos or advice on how to do it on their forums; however a lot of their controllersaren't capable of the voltage & amperage we use.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 25/06/2017, at 12:10 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Gamma has this stupid multi wire cable that goes from the electric panel to the hand control box. ?The box has speed control for 4 motors and forward and reverse for the 4 motors. ?Can I make that remote without an electrical engineering degree from MIT?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 25 20:33:30 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 12:33:30 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wireless control In-Reply-To: <108956914.2226255.1498435539214@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1677718777.1292838.1498306240459.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1677718777.1292838.1498306240459@mail.yahoo.com> <07F2689A-D60F-4C4C-B0C8-3532BDA7B121@yahoo.com> <108956914.2226255.1498435539214@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5926B587-59B4-46F6-BD3A-5FD6E6E3856E@yahoo.com> Hank, a lot would also depend on how the hand held controller operates the reverse on your motor controller. Maybe you have ptfe ( teflon ) insulated wires, they are a lot stiffer. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 26/06/2017, at 12:05 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, > Thanks for the input, I have used servo's before and was worried that might be the only way. The big issue really is the darn wire is quite stiff, maybe I should try to find a better cable first, mind you, the rc controllers are pretty nice to handle. > Hank > > > On Sunday, June 25, 2017 5:17 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > no you don't have to have an electrical degree from MIT but it will > help if you know someone who does. > If your control box has joy sticks on it with potentiometers that send out > 0-5Volts, you could chop off the signal wires or maybe just solder in wires to this > device..... > http://www.astroflight.com/rcpwm2v > It takes the signal from a radio control receiver & outputs it as a 0-5V signal. > So you need a radio control transmitter & receiver with at least 4 channels & > one of those units for each motor; providing the voltage is compatible. > The radio control transmitters are a bit difficult to set up if you are not familiar > with all the RC terms & would probably be better left to some nerdy kid! > Another way that it could be done is to fit similar valued potentiometers as you > have on your joy stick, on to the signal wire. Then buy a servo ( thing that operates > the aileron on a RC plane) & attach that on to the spindle of the potentiometer. > The servo is plugged in to a channel on the RC receiver ( RC receiver needs 5 Volts), > now when you operate the joy stick on your RC transmitter instead of moving > the aileron up & down it turns the potentiometer one way or the other, controlling > forward & back & speed. > You could have a switch incorporated to change from radio control to manual. > I am not sure how the radio signals would work inside a metal hull, maybe buy > a RC to & try it out first! ( good excuse) > A lot of modern motor controllers have a RC signal port. Jon was looking at a motor > controller that had that facility, not sure if he bought it. > Other than that, there is a lot happening in the robotics World with radio controlled > battle bots etc; they are controlling a number of motors off RC. There may be > videos or advice on how to do it on their forums; however a lot of their controllers > aren't capable of the voltage & amperage we use. > Cheers Alan > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 25/06/2017, at 12:10 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> Gamma has this stupid multi wire cable that goes from the electric panel to the hand control box. The box has speed control for 4 motors and forward and reverse for the 4 motors. Can I make that remote without an electrical engineering degree from MIT >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 00:30:01 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 16:30:01 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Message-ID: <3F9A881C-F94A-4F3D-B911-232CFDDDACAE@yahoo.com> Pressure tested my light to 1000 psi for an hour using the water blaster & no leaks! I didn't have a pressure relief valve in the system as I do with my air pressure set up & it was a pain getting the chamber lid off. I had thought the water blaster would have leaked a bit of pressure but it didn't. The sealing system for the wires was a 3 layered process; encapsulating the wires in the epoxy, then coating the insulation for an inch up from where they came out of the epoxy, & over the epoxy with a 2 part heat activated pvc glue that they use on inflatable boats. This glue worked a lot better on the pvc insulation than several others I tried like E61000 (supposed to be better than shoe goo), 3M 5200 & polyurethane. Over this, to tidy it up & act as a cable support, I moulded polyurethane. In the attached photos the white ptfe gasket that the lens sits on looks wet but it is just the compression of the lens against the gasket. I don't like this from a cosmetic point & may change it. The 2 objects with the light are the male mould for the polyurethane cable support & the silicone mould for the same. Alan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 162131 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image2.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 174136 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPad From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 07:48:41 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 11:48:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test In-Reply-To: <3F9A881C-F94A-4F3D-B911-232CFDDDACAE@yahoo.com> References: <3F9A881C-F94A-4F3D-B911-232CFDDDACAE@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <120644914.2524097.1498477721390@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,That really turned out nice, how did you mould the polyurethane? that stuff sticks like mad.?I would leave the white gasket, it looks fine. ?Either the gasket thickness is not even or the seat is not perfectly matched to the Lenz. On Sunday, June 25, 2017 10:30 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Pressure tested my light to 1000 psi for an hour using the water blaster & no leaks! I didn't have a pressure relief valve in the system as I do with my air pressure set up & it was a pain getting the chamber lid off. I had thought the water blaster would have leaked a bit of pressure but it didn't. The sealing system for the wires was a 3 layered process; encapsulating the wires in the epoxy, then coating the insulation for an inch up from where they came out of? the epoxy, & over the epoxy with a 2 part heat activated pvc glue that they use on inflatable boats. This glue worked a lot better on the pvc insulation than several others I tried like E61000 (supposed to be better than shoe goo), 3M 5200 & polyurethane. Over this, to tidy it up & act as a cable support, I moulded polyurethane. In the attached photos the white ptfe gasket that the lens sits on looks wet but it is just the compression of the lens against the gasket. I don't like this from a cosmetic point & may change it. The 2 objects with the light are the male mould for the polyurethane cable support & the silicone mould for the same. Alan Sent from my iPad_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 11:08:03 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 08:08:03 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test In-Reply-To: <120644914.2524097.1498477721390@mail.yahoo.com> References: <3F9A881C-F94A-4F3D-B911-232CFDDDACAE@yahoo.com> <120644914.2524097.1498477721390@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, Looks great!, what Lumens did you get with this design? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 4:48 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alan, > That really turned out nice, how did you mould the polyurethane? that > stuff sticks like mad. > I would leave the white gasket, it looks fine. Either the gasket > thickness is not even or the seat is not perfectly matched to the Lenz. > > > On Sunday, June 25, 2017 10:30 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Pressure tested my light to 1000 psi for an hour using the water blaster > & no leaks! I didn't have a pressure relief valve in the system as I do > with > my air pressure set up & it was a pain getting the chamber lid off. I had > thought the water blaster would have leaked a bit of pressure but it > didn't. > The sealing system for the wires was a 3 layered process; encapsulating the > wires in the epoxy, then coating the insulation for an inch up from where > they came > out of the epoxy, & over the epoxy with a 2 part heat activated pvc glue > that > they use on inflatable boats. This glue worked a lot better on the pvc > insulation > than several others I tried like E61000 (supposed to be better than shoe > goo), > 3M 5200 & polyurethane. > Over this, to tidy it up & act as a cable support, I moulded polyurethane. > In the attached photos the white ptfe gasket that the lens sits on looks > wet > but it is just the compression of the lens against the gasket. I don't > like this > from a cosmetic point & may change it. The 2 objects with the light are the > male mould for the polyurethane cable support & the silicone mould for the > same. > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 11:30:58 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 08:30:58 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Message-ID: <20170626083058.C6B0DEDE@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 13:00:44 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 17:00:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test In-Reply-To: <120644914.2524097.1498477721390@mail.yahoo.com> References: <3F9A881C-F94A-4F3D-B911-232CFDDDACAE@yahoo.com> <120644914.2524097.1498477721390@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1009108840.2491862.1498496444665@mail.yahoo.com> Hank, Sounds interesting. Do you have a plan to take the sub out to the site? Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 7:54 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Alan,That really turned out nice, how did you mould the polyurethane? that stuff sticks like mad.?I would leave the white gasket, it looks fine. ?Either the gasket thickness is not even or the seat is not perfectly matched to the Lenz. On Sunday, June 25, 2017 10:30 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Pressure tested my light to 1000 psi for an hour using the water blaster & no leaks! I didn't have a pressure relief valve in the system as I do with my air pressure set up & it was a pain getting the chamber lid off. I had thought the water blaster would have leaked a bit of pressure but it didn't. The sealing system for the wires was a 3 layered process; encapsulating the wires in the epoxy, then coating the insulation for an inch up from where they came out of? the epoxy, & over the epoxy with a 2 part heat activated pvc glue that they use on inflatable boats. This glue worked a lot better on the pvc insulation than several others I tried like E61000 (supposed to be better than shoe goo), 3M 5200 & polyurethane. Over this, to tidy it up & act as a cable support, I moulded polyurethane. In the attached photos the white ptfe gasket that the lens sits on looks wet but it is just the compression of the lens against the gasket. I don't like this from a cosmetic point & may change it. The 2 objects with the light are the male mould for the polyurethane cable support & the silicone mould for the same. Alan Sent from my iPad_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 13:57:33 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 05:57:33 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test In-Reply-To: <120644914.2524097.1498477721390@mail.yahoo.com> References: <3F9A881C-F94A-4F3D-B911-232CFDDDACAE@yahoo.com> <120644914.2524097.1498477721390@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0091EAFC-816D-48B4-8F97-A785A0561E4F@yahoo.com> Thanks Hank, the silicone mold fits over the wire & clamps down on to the back for pouring, & not much will stick to the silicone. For the through hull end I'll need to split the mold. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 26/06/2017, at 11:48 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > That really turned out nice, how did you mould the polyurethane? that stuff sticks like mad. > I would leave the white gasket, it looks fine. Either the gasket thickness is not even or the seat is not perfectly matched to the Lenz. > > > On Sunday, June 25, 2017 10:30 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Pressure tested my light to 1000 psi for an hour using the water blaster > & no leaks! I didn't have a pressure relief valve in the system as I do with > my air pressure set up & it was a pain getting the chamber lid off. I had > thought the water blaster would have leaked a bit of pressure but it didn't. > The sealing system for the wires was a 3 layered process; encapsulating the > wires in the epoxy, then coating the insulation for an inch up from where they came > out of the epoxy, & over the epoxy with a 2 part heat activated pvc glue that > they use on inflatable boats. This glue worked a lot better on the pvc insulation > than several others I tried like E61000 (supposed to be better than shoe goo), > 3M 5200 & polyurethane. > Over this, to tidy it up & act as a cable support, I moulded polyurethane. > In the attached photos the white ptfe gasket that the lens sits on looks wet > but it is just the compression of the lens against the gasket. I don't like this > from a cosmetic point & may change it. The 2 objects with the light are the > male mould for the polyurethane cable support & the silicone mould for the > same. > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 14:00:47 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 06:00:47 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test In-Reply-To: References: <3F9A881C-F94A-4F3D-B911-232CFDDDACAE@yahoo.com> <120644914.2524097.1498477721390@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <60DAF247-6746-4372-B3E6-181C4A62DB7B@yahoo.com> Thanks David, I get 7000 lumens. Have a dimmer control for it but haven't tried it yet. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 27/06/2017, at 3:08 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, Looks great!, what Lumens did you get with this design? > > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > >> On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 4:48 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alan, >> That really turned out nice, how did you mould the polyurethane? that stuff sticks like mad. >> I would leave the white gasket, it looks fine. Either the gasket thickness is not even or the seat is not perfectly matched to the Lenz. >> >> >> On Sunday, June 25, 2017 10:30 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Pressure tested my light to 1000 psi for an hour using the water blaster >> & no leaks! I didn't have a pressure relief valve in the system as I do with >> my air pressure set up & it was a pain getting the chamber lid off. I had >> thought the water blaster would have leaked a bit of pressure but it didn't. >> The sealing system for the wires was a 3 layered process; encapsulating the >> wires in the epoxy, then coating the insulation for an inch up from where they came >> out of the epoxy, & over the epoxy with a 2 part heat activated pvc glue that >> they use on inflatable boats. This glue worked a lot better on the pvc insulation >> than several others I tried like E61000 (supposed to be better than shoe goo), >> 3M 5200 & polyurethane. >> Over this, to tidy it up & act as a cable support, I moulded polyurethane. >> In the attached photos the white ptfe gasket that the lens sits on looks wet >> but it is just the compression of the lens against the gasket. I don't like this >> from a cosmetic point & may change it. The 2 objects with the light are the >> male mould for the polyurethane cable support & the silicone mould for the >> same. >> Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad_______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 16:08:28 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 20:08:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test In-Reply-To: <60DAF247-6746-4372-B3E6-181C4A62DB7B@yahoo.com> References: <3F9A881C-F94A-4F3D-B911-232CFDDDACAE@yahoo.com> <120644914.2524097.1498477721390@mail.yahoo.com> <60DAF247-6746-4372-B3E6-181C4A62DB7B@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <235575785.2994909.1498507708410@mail.yahoo.com> Greg,?I do not have a plan for getting on site. ?I have a plan to get there, East Coast that is. ?I can haul it cross country myself.Right now it is a dream really, not a plan. ?But Elementary 3000 started that way. ?I do have it mostly figured out, and I have an EFA guy lined up through Karl Stanley. ? I will have two heads pressed and machined at Edmonton Exchanger in Edmonton Alberta. ?My original CNG sphere plan is to light. ?I think the getting on site part will evolve, I am sure money will make that happen easily.Thanks' for calling it "interesting" and not ridiculous. ;-)Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 12:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks David,I get 7000 lumens. Have a dimmer control for it buthaven't tried it yet.Alan Sent from my iPad On 27/06/2017, at 3:08 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, Looks great!, what Lumens did you get with this design? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 4:48 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,That really turned out nice, how did you mould the polyurethane? that stuff sticks like mad.?I would leave the white gasket, it looks fine.? Either the gasket thickness is not even or the seat is not perfectly matched to the Lenz. On Sunday, June 25, 2017 10:30 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Pressure tested my light to 1000 psi for an hour using the water blaster & no leaks! I didn't have a pressure relief valve in the system as I do with my air pressure set up & it was a pain getting the chamber lid off. I had thought the water blaster would have leaked a bit of pressure but it didn't. The sealing system for the wires was a 3 layered process; encapsulating the wires in the epoxy, then coating the insulation for an inch up from where they came out of? the epoxy, & over the epoxy with a 2 part heat activated pvc glue that they use on inflatable boats. This glue worked a lot better on the pvc insulation than several others I tried like E61000 (supposed to be better than shoe goo), 3M 5200 & polyurethane. Over this, to tidy it up & act as a cable support, I moulded polyurethane. In the attached photos the white ptfe gasket that the lens sits on looks wet but it is just the compression of the lens against the gasket. I don't like this from a cosmetic point & may change it. The 2 objects with the light are the male mould for the polyurethane cable support & the silicone mould for the same. Alan Sent from my iPad__________________________ _____________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 17:10:35 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 09:10:35 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test In-Reply-To: <1009108840.2491862.1498496444665@mail.yahoo.com> References: <3F9A881C-F94A-4F3D-B911-232CFDDDACAE@yahoo.com> <120644914.2524097.1498477721390@mail.yahoo.com> <1009108840.2491862.1498496444665@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8456857D-1DD0-4028-B272-20F895C281D7@yahoo.com> The Titanic is a long way off shore Hank, are you sure your paddle steamer will make it? If you built it for two you may be able to get some sort of sponsorship from wealthy businessmen wanting to do the dive, & then do multiple dives while on location! It would be a great project for a film crew to follow from beginning to end. You would be a good bet for them as you have already built a number of subs, & adept at the heavy haulage. Phil would have some contacts with Canadian discovery channel wouldn't he, they followed his Curasub. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 27/06/2017, at 5:00 AM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > > Sounds interesting. Do you have a plan to take the sub out to the site? > > Greg > > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 7:54 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test > > Alan, > That really turned out nice, how did you mould the polyurethane? that stuff sticks like mad. > I would leave the white gasket, it looks fine. Either the gasket thickness is not even or the seat is not perfectly matched to the Lenz. > > > On Sunday, June 25, 2017 10:30 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Pressure tested my light to 1000 psi for an hour using the water blaster > & no leaks! I didn't have a pressure relief valve in the system as I do with > my air pressure set up & it was a pain getting the chamber lid off. I had > thought the water blaster would have leaked a bit of pressure but it didn't. > The sealing system for the wires was a 3 layered process; encapsulating the > wires in the epoxy, then coating the insulation for an inch up from where they came > out of the epoxy, & over the epoxy with a 2 part heat activated pvc glue that > they use on inflatable boats. This glue worked a lot better on the pvc insulation > than several others I tried like E61000 (supposed to be better than shoe goo), > 3M 5200 & polyurethane. > Over this, to tidy it up & act as a cable support, I moulded polyurethane. > In the attached photos the white ptfe gasket that the lens sits on looks wet > but it is just the compression of the lens against the gasket. I don't like this > from a cosmetic point & may change it. The 2 objects with the light are the > male mould for the polyurethane cable support & the silicone mould for the > same. > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 17:19:10 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 21:19:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test In-Reply-To: <235575785.2994909.1498507708410@mail.yahoo.com> References: <3F9A881C-F94A-4F3D-B911-232CFDDDACAE@yahoo.com> <120644914.2524097.1498477721390@mail.yahoo.com> <60DAF247-6746-4372-B3E6-181C4A62DB7B@yahoo.com> <235575785.2994909.1498507708410@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1758313329.2769275.1498511950473@mail.yahoo.com> Hank, I'm surprised to hear you say that the CNG sphere is too light. My "seat of the pants" engineering tells me that a CNG sphere would be plenty. Are you sure its too light? If memory serves me correctly, the sphere that Ron Allum made was 42" OD x 2.5" thick gun barrel steel and had a 1.4/1 safety factor at 38,000 ft. What thickness acrylic do you need for the port? I'll donate a piece of 4" to the cause if that will help. Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,?I do not have a plan for getting on site. ?I have a plan to get there, East Coast that is. ?I can haul it cross country myself.Right now it is a dream really, not a plan. ?But Elementary 3000 started that way. ?I do have it mostly figured out, and I have an EFA guy lined up through Karl Stanley. ? I will have two heads pressed and machined at Edmonton Exchanger in Edmonton Alberta. ?My original CNG sphere plan is to light. ?I think the getting on site part will evolve, I am sure money will make that happen easily.Thanks' for calling it "interesting" and not ridiculous. ;-)Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 12:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks David,I get 7000 lumens. Have a dimmer control for it buthaven't tried it yet.Alan Sent from my iPad On 27/06/2017, at 3:08 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, Looks great!, what Lumens did you get with this design? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 4:48 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,That really turned out nice, how did you mould the polyurethane? that stuff sticks like mad.?I would leave the white gasket, it looks fine.? Either the gasket thickness is not even or the seat is not perfectly matched to the Lenz. On Sunday, June 25, 2017 10:30 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Pressure tested my light to 1000 psi for an hour using the water blaster & no leaks! I didn't have a pressure relief valve in the system as I do with my air pressure set up & it was a pain getting the chamber lid off. I had thought the water blaster would have leaked a bit of pressure but it didn't. The sealing system for the wires was a 3 layered process; encapsulating the wires in the epoxy, then coating the insulation for an inch up from where they came out of? the epoxy, & over the epoxy with a 2 part heat activated pvc glue that they use on inflatable boats. This glue worked a lot better on the pvc insulation than several others I tried like E61000 (supposed to be better than shoe goo), 3M 5200 & polyurethane. Over this, to tidy it up & act as a cable support, I moulded polyurethane. In the attached photos the white ptfe gasket that the lens sits on looks wet but it is just the compression of the lens against the gasket. I don't like this from a cosmetic point & may change it. The 2 objects with the light are the male mould for the polyurethane cable support & the silicone mould for the same. Alan Sent from my iPad__________________________ _____________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 17:19:54 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 14:19:54 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test In-Reply-To: PaK4dUXagoQc4PaK5dcPx2 References: <3F9A881C-F94A-4F3D-B911-232CFDDDACAE@yahoo.com> <120644914.2524097.1498477721390@mail.yahoo.com> <60DAF247-6746-4372-B3E6-181C4A62DB7B@yahoo.com> PaK4dUXagoQc4PaK5dcPx2 Message-ID: Hank, I'm sure that you sorted out your quality control issues the last time around, but if it is necessary, I can make a site visit to EE on your behalf. Sean On June 26, 2017 1:08:28 PM PDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Greg,?I do not have a plan for getting on site. ?I have a plan to get >there, East Coast that is. ?I can haul it cross country myself.Right >now it is a dream really, not a plan. ?But Elementary 3000 started that >way. ?I do have it mostly figured out, and I have an EFA guy lined up >through Karl Stanley. ? I will have two heads pressed and machined at >Edmonton Exchanger in Edmonton Alberta. ?My original CNG sphere plan is >to light. ?I think the getting on site part will evolve, I am sure >money will make that happen easily.Thanks' for calling it "interesting" >and not ridiculous. ;-)Hank > >On Monday, June 26, 2017 12:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > >Thanks David,I get 7000 lumens. Have a dimmer control for it buthaven't >tried it yet.Alan > >Sent from my iPad >On 27/06/2017, at 3:08 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > >Hi Alan, Looks great!, what Lumens did you get with this design? > > >Best Regards, >David Colombo > >804 College Ave >Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >(707) 536-1424 >www.SeaQuestor.com > > >On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 4:48 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >Alan,That really turned out nice, how did you mould the polyurethane? >that stuff sticks like mad.?I would leave the white gasket, it looks >fine.? Either the gasket thickness is not even or the seat is not >perfectly matched to the Lenz. > >On Sunday, June 25, 2017 10:30 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > >Pressure tested my light to 1000 psi for an hour using the water >blaster >& no leaks! I didn't have a pressure relief valve in the system as I do >with >my air pressure set up & it was a pain getting the chamber lid off. I >had >thought the water blaster would have leaked a bit of pressure but it >didn't. >The sealing system for the wires was a 3 layered process; encapsulating >the >wires in the epoxy, then coating the insulation for an inch up from >where they came >out of? the epoxy, & over the epoxy with a 2 part heat activated pvc >glue that >they use on inflatable boats. This glue worked a lot better on the pvc >insulation >than several others I tried like E61000 (supposed to be better than >shoe goo), >3M 5200 & polyurethane. >Over this, to tidy it up & act as a cable support, I moulded >polyurethane. >In the attached photos the white ptfe gasket that the lens sits on >looks wet >but it is just the compression of the lens against the gasket. I don't >like this >from a cosmetic point & may change it. The 2 objects with the light are >the >male mould for the polyurethane cable support & the silicone mould for >the >same. >Alan > > >Sent from my iPad__________________________ _____________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > >______________________________ _________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 17:43:05 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 21:43:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test In-Reply-To: References: <3F9A881C-F94A-4F3D-B911-232CFDDDACAE@yahoo.com> <120644914.2524097.1498477721390@mail.yahoo.com> <60DAF247-6746-4372-B3E6-181C4A62DB7B@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <441656083.3036887.1498513385763@mail.yahoo.com> Sean,That would be fantastic, they were?extremely helpful but it is a nice feeling to have someone like you looking over there shoulder.Thank you for the offerHank On Monday, June 26, 2017 3:20 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I'm sure that you sorted out your quality control issues the last time around, but if it is necessary, I can make a site visit to EE on your behalf.Sean On June 26, 2017 1:08:28 PM PDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg,?I do not have a plan for getting on site. ?I have a plan to get there, East Coast that is. ?I can haul it cross country myself.Right now it is a dream really, not a plan. ?But Elementary 3000 started that way. ?I do have it mostly figured out, and I have an EFA guy lined up through Karl Stanley. ? I will have two heads pressed and machined at Edmonton Exchanger in Edmonton Alberta. ?My original CNG sphere plan is to light. ?I think the get! ting onsite part will evolve, I am sure money will make that happen easily.Thanks' for calling it "interesting" and not ridiculous. ;-)Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 12:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks David,I get 7000 lumens. Have a dimmer control for it buthaven't tried it yet.Alan Sent from my iPad On 27/06/2017, at 3:08 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, Looks great!, what Lumens did you get with this design? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 4:48 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,That really turned out nice, how did you mould the polyurethane? that stuff stic! ks likemad.?I would leave the white gasket, it looks fine.? Either the gasket thickness is not even or the seat is not perfectly matched to the Lenz. On Sunday, June 25, 2017 10:30 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Pressure tested my light to 1000 psi for an hour using the water blaster & no leaks! I didn't have a pressure relief valve in the system as I do with my air pressure set up & it was a pain getting the chamber lid off. I had thought the water blaster would have leaked a bit of pressure but it didn't. The sealing system for the wires was a 3 layered process; encapsulating the wires in the epoxy, then coating the insulation for an inch up from where they came out of? the epoxy, & over the epoxy with a 2 part heat activated pvc glu! e that they use on inflatable boats. This glue worked a lot better on the pvc insulation than several others I tried like E61000 (supposed to be better than shoe goo), 3M 5200 & polyurethane. Over this, to tidy it up & act as a cable support, I moulded polyurethane. In the attached photos the white ptfe gasket that the lens sits on looks wet but it is just the compression of the lens against the gasket. I don't like this from a cosmetic point & may change it. The 2 objects with the light are the male mould for the polyurethane cable support & the silicone mould for the same. Alan Sent from my iPad__________________________ _____________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 17:47:54 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 21:47:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test In-Reply-To: <1758313329.2769275.1498511950473@mail.yahoo.com> References: <3F9A881C-F94A-4F3D-B911-232CFDDDACAE@yahoo.com> <120644914.2524097.1498477721390@mail.yahoo.com> <60DAF247-6746-4372-B3E6-181C4A62DB7B@yahoo.com> <235575785.2994909.1498507708410@mail.yahoo.com> <1758313329.2769275.1498511950473@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <745711533.3054481.1498513674220@mail.yahoo.com> Where does one get a 4" piece acrylic?? From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Hank, I'm surprised to hear you say that the CNG sphere is too light. My "seat of the pants" engineering tells me that a CNG sphere would be plenty. Are you sure its too light? If memory serves me correctly, the sphere that Ron Allum made was 42" OD x 2.5" thick gun barrel steel and had a 1.4/1 safety factor at 38,000 ft. What thickness acrylic do you need for the port? I'll donate a piece of 4" to the cause if that will help. Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,?I do not have a plan for getting on site. ?I have a plan to get there, East Coast that is. ?I can haul it cross country myself.Right now it is a dream really, not a plan. ?But Elementary 3000 started that way. ?I do have it mostly figured out, and I have an EFA guy lined up through Karl Stanley. ? I will have two heads pressed and machined at Edmonton Exchanger in Edmonton Alberta. ?My original CNG sphere plan is to light. ?I think the getting on site part will evolve, I am sure money will make that happen easily.Thanks' for calling it "interesting" and not ridiculous. ;-)Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 12:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks David,I get 7000 lumens. Have a dimmer control for it buthaven't tried it yet.Alan Sent from my iPad On 27/06/2017, at 3:08 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, Looks great!, what Lumens did you get with this design? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 4:48 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,That really turned out nice, how did you mould the polyurethane? that stuff sticks like mad.?I would leave the white gasket, it looks fine.? Either the gasket thickness is not even or the seat is not perfectly matched to the Lenz. On Sunday, June 25, 2017 10:30 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Pressure tested my light to 1000 psi for an hour using the water blaster & no leaks! I didn't have a pressure relief valve in the system as I do with my air pressure set up & it was a pain getting the chamber lid off. I had thought the water blaster would have leaked a bit of pressure but it didn't. The sealing system for the wires was a 3 layered process; encapsulating the wires in the epoxy, then coating the insulation for an inch up from where they came out of? the epoxy, & over the epoxy with a 2 part heat activated pvc glue that they use on inflatable boats. This glue worked a lot better on the pvc insulation than several others I tried like E61000 (supposed to be better than shoe goo), 3M 5200 & polyurethane. Over this, to tidy it up & act as a cable support, I moulded polyurethane. In the attached photos the white ptfe gasket that the lens sits on looks wet but it is just the compression of the lens against the gasket. I don't like this from a cosmetic point & may change it. The 2 objects with the light are the male mould for the polyurethane cable support & the silicone mould for the same. Alan Sent from my iPad__________________________ _____________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 17:50:15 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 21:50:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test In-Reply-To: <1758313329.2769275.1498511950473@mail.yahoo.com> References: <3F9A881C-F94A-4F3D-B911-232CFDDDACAE@yahoo.com> <120644914.2524097.1498477721390@mail.yahoo.com> <60DAF247-6746-4372-B3E6-181C4A62DB7B@yahoo.com> <235575785.2994909.1498507708410@mail.yahoo.com> <1758313329.2769275.1498511950473@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1793756246.3062318.1498513815370@mail.yahoo.com> Greg,Thank you for the acrylic offer, that would be great, of coarse I will be looking to you for?annealing. ?The CNG sphere at 48 in ID and 3.25 in thick ?could do it but it would be past the safe woking pressure witch is 4444.8 psi just shy of 10,000 feetThe sphere your talking about was probably exotic steel like HY-100Edmonton Exchanger did say they would press a HY steel head for me but foam is cheaper I think.Pity about the CNG sphere because they have a life of 300 years and I can pick one up in Texas for 8KHank On Monday, June 26, 2017 3:20 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I'm surprised to hear you say that the CNG sphere is too light. My "seat of the pants" engineering tells me that a CNG sphere would be plenty. Are you sure its too light? If memory serves me correctly, the sphere that Ron Allum made was 42" OD x 2.5" thick gun barrel steel and had a 1.4/1 safety factor at 38,000 ft. What thickness acrylic do you need for the port? I'll donate a piece of 4" to the cause if that will help. Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,?I do not have a plan for getting on site. ?I have a plan to get there, East Coast that is. ?I can haul it cross country myself.Right now it is a dream really, not a plan. ?But Elementary 3000 started that way. ?I do have it mostly figured out, and I have an EFA guy lined up through Karl Stanley. ? I will have two heads pressed and machined at Edmonton Exchanger in Edmonton Alberta. ?My original CNG sphere plan is to light. ?I think the getting on site part will evolve, I am sure money will make that happen easily.Thanks' for calling it "interesting" and not ridiculous. ;-)Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 12:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks David,I get 7000 lumens. Have a dimmer control for it buthaven't tried it yet.Alan Sent from my iPad On 27/06/2017, at 3:08 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, Looks great!, what Lumens did you get with this design? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 4:48 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,That really turned out nice, how did you mould the polyurethane? that stuff sticks like mad.?I would leave the white gasket, it looks fine.? Either the gasket thickness is not even or the seat is not perfectly matched to the Lenz. On Sunday, June 25, 2017 10:30 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Pressure tested my light to 1000 psi for an hour using the water blaster & no leaks! I didn't have a pressure relief valve in the system as I do with my air pressure set up & it was a pain getting the chamber lid off. I had thought the water blaster would have leaked a bit of pressure but it didn't. The sealing system for the wires was a 3 layered process; encapsulating the wires in the epoxy, then coating the insulation for an inch up from where they came out of? the epoxy, & over the epoxy with a 2 part heat activated pvc glue that they use on inflatable boats. This glue worked a lot better on the pvc insulation than several others I tried like E61000 (supposed to be better than shoe goo), 3M 5200 & polyurethane. Over this, to tidy it up & act as a cable support, I moulded polyurethane. In the attached photos the white ptfe gasket that the lens sits on looks wet but it is just the compression of the lens against the gasket. I don't like this from a cosmetic point & may change it. The 2 objects with the light are the male mould for the polyurethane cable support & the silicone mould for the same. Alan Sent from my iPad__________________________ _____________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 18:04:46 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 22:04:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test In-Reply-To: <745711533.3054481.1498513674220@mail.yahoo.com> References: <3F9A881C-F94A-4F3D-B911-232CFDDDACAE@yahoo.com> <120644914.2524097.1498477721390@mail.yahoo.com> <60DAF247-6746-4372-B3E6-181C4A62DB7B@yahoo.com> <235575785.2994909.1498507708410@mail.yahoo.com> <1758313329.2769275.1498511950473@mail.yahoo.com> <745711533.3054481.1498513674220@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2012037561.3071748.1498514686983@mail.yahoo.com> Pete,I got my 3 inch thick ?brick of acrylic from Reynolds Polymer, it was 16 inches square be 3 in thick. ?They will sell you any thickness you want.Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 3:48 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Where does one get a 4" piece acrylic?? From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Hank, I'm surprised to hear you say that the CNG sphere is too light. My "seat of the pants" engineering tells me that a CNG sphere would be plenty. Are you sure its too light? If memory serves me correctly, the sphere that Ron Allum made was 42" OD x 2.5" thick gun barrel steel and had a 1.4/1 safety factor at 38,000 ft. What thickness acrylic do you need for the port? I'll donate a piece of 4" to the cause if that will help. Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,?I do not have a plan for getting on site. ?I have a plan to get there, East Coast that is. ?I can haul it cross country myself.Right now it is a dream really, not a plan. ?But Elementary 3000 started that way. ?I do have it mostly figured out, and I have an EFA guy lined up through Karl Stanley. ? I will have two heads pressed and machined at Edmonton Exchanger in Edmonton Alberta. ?My original CNG sphere plan is to light. ?I think the getting on site part will evolve, I am sure money will make that happen easily.Thanks' for calling it "interesting" and not ridiculous. ;-)Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 12:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks David,I get 7000 lumens. Have a dimmer control for it buthaven't tried it yet.Alan Sent from my iPad On 27/06/2017, at 3:08 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, Looks great!, what Lumens did you get with this design? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 4:48 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,That really turned out nice, how did you mould the polyurethane? that stuff sticks like mad.?I would leave the white gasket, it looks fine.? Either the gasket thickness is not even or the seat is not perfectly matched to the Lenz. On Sunday, June 25, 2017 10:30 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Pressure tested my light to 1000 psi for an hour using the water blaster & no leaks! I didn't have a pressure relief valve in the system as I do with my air pressure set up & it was a pain getting the chamber lid off. I had thought the water blaster would have leaked a bit of pressure but it didn't. The sealing system for the wires was a 3 layered process; encapsulating the wires in the epoxy, then coating the insulation for an inch up from where they came out of? the epoxy, & over the epoxy with a 2 part heat activated pvc glue that they use on inflatable boats. This glue worked a lot better on the pvc insulation than several others I tried like E61000 (supposed to be better than shoe goo), 3M 5200 & polyurethane. Over this, to tidy it up & act as a cable support, I moulded polyurethane. In the attached photos the white ptfe gasket that the lens sits on looks wet but it is just the compression of the lens against the gasket. I don't like this from a cosmetic point & may change it. The 2 objects with the light are the male mould for the polyurethane cable support & the silicone mould for the same. Alan Sent from my iPad__________________________ _____________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 18:25:25 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 22:25:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test In-Reply-To: <1793756246.3062318.1498513815370@mail.yahoo.com> References: <3F9A881C-F94A-4F3D-B911-232CFDDDACAE@yahoo.com> <120644914.2524097.1498477721390@mail.yahoo.com> <60DAF247-6746-4372-B3E6-181C4A62DB7B@yahoo.com> <235575785.2994909.1498507708410@mail.yahoo.com> <1758313329.2769275.1498511950473@mail.yahoo.com> <1793756246.3062318.1498513815370@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1245914876.2777861.1498515925705@mail.yahoo.com> Hank, The steel that Ron choice was actually much stronger than HY-100. Here is an article you might find interesting- http://www.ansys.com/-/media/Ansys/corporate/resourcelibrary/article/AA-V6-I3-Deep-Dive.pdf Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,Thank you for the acrylic offer, that would be great, of coarse I will be looking to you for?annealing. ?The CNG sphere at 48 in ID and 3.25 in thick ?could do it but it would be past the safe woking pressure witch is 4444.8 psi just shy of 10,000 feetThe sphere your talking about was probably exotic steel like HY-100Edmonton Exchanger did say they would press a HY steel head for me but foam is cheaper I think.Pity about the CNG sphere because they have a life of 300 years and I can pick one up in Texas for 8KHank On Monday, June 26, 2017 3:20 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I'm surprised to hear you say that the CNG sphere is too light. My "seat of the pants" engineering tells me that a CNG sphere would be plenty. Are you sure its too light? If memory serves me correctly, the sphere that Ron Allum made was 42" OD x 2.5" thick gun barrel steel and had a 1.4/1 safety factor at 38,000 ft. What thickness acrylic do you need for the port? I'll donate a piece of 4" to the cause if that will help. Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,?I do not have a plan for getting on site. ?I have a plan to get there, East Coast that is. ?I can haul it cross country myself.Right now it is a dream really, not a plan. ?But Elementary 3000 started that way. ?I do have it mostly figured out, and I have an EFA guy lined up through Karl Stanley. ? I will have two heads pressed and machined at Edmonton Exchanger in Edmonton Alberta. ?My original CNG sphere plan is to light. ?I think the getting on site part will evolve, I am sure money will make that happen easily.Thanks' for calling it "interesting" and not ridiculous. ;-)Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 12:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks David,I get 7000 lumens. Have a dimmer control for it buthaven't tried it yet.Alan Sent from my iPad On 27/06/2017, at 3:08 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, Looks great!, what Lumens did you get with this design? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 4:48 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,That really turned out nice, how did you mould the polyurethane? that stuff sticks like mad.?I would leave the white gasket, it looks fine.? Either the gasket thickness is not even or the seat is not perfectly matched to the Lenz. On Sunday, June 25, 2017 10:30 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Pressure tested my light to 1000 psi for an hour using the water blaster & no leaks! I didn't have a pressure relief valve in the system as I do with my air pressure set up & it was a pain getting the chamber lid off. I had thought the water blaster would have leaked a bit of pressure but it didn't. The sealing system for the wires was a 3 layered process; encapsulating the wires in the epoxy, then coating the insulation for an inch up from where they came out of? the epoxy, & over the epoxy with a 2 part heat activated pvc glue that they use on inflatable boats. This glue worked a lot better on the pvc insulation than several others I tried like E61000 (supposed to be better than shoe goo), 3M 5200 & polyurethane. Over this, to tidy it up & act as a cable support, I moulded polyurethane. In the attached photos the white ptfe gasket that the lens sits on looks wet but it is just the compression of the lens against the gasket. I don't like this from a cosmetic point & may change it. The 2 objects with the light are the male mould for the polyurethane cable support & the silicone mould for the same. Alan Sent from my iPad__________________________ _____________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 18:55:35 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 22:55:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test In-Reply-To: <235575785.2994909.1498507708410@mail.yahoo.com> References: <3F9A881C-F94A-4F3D-B911-232CFDDDACAE@yahoo.com> <120644914.2524097.1498477721390@mail.yahoo.com> <60DAF247-6746-4372-B3E6-181C4A62DB7B@yahoo.com> <235575785.2994909.1498507708410@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1087579518.2777419.1498517735860@mail.yahoo.com> Hank, The pressure hull on the Deep Sea Challenger was made using a steel alloy called EN26. Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,?I do not have a plan for getting on site. ?I have a plan to get there, East Coast that is. ?I can haul it cross country myself.Right now it is a dream really, not a plan. ?But Elementary 3000 started that way. ?I do have it mostly figured out, and I have an EFA guy lined up through Karl Stanley. ? I will have two heads pressed and machined at Edmonton Exchanger in Edmonton Alberta. ?My original CNG sphere plan is to light. ?I think the getting on site part will evolve, I am sure money will make that happen easily.Thanks' for calling it "interesting" and not ridiculous. ;-)Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 12:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks David,I get 7000 lumens. Have a dimmer control for it buthaven't tried it yet.Alan Sent from my iPad On 27/06/2017, at 3:08 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, Looks great!, what Lumens did you get with this design? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 4:48 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,That really turned out nice, how did you mould the polyurethane? that stuff sticks like mad.?I would leave the white gasket, it looks fine.? Either the gasket thickness is not even or the seat is not perfectly matched to the Lenz. On Sunday, June 25, 2017 10:30 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Pressure tested my light to 1000 psi for an hour using the water blaster & no leaks! I didn't have a pressure relief valve in the system as I do with my air pressure set up & it was a pain getting the chamber lid off. I had thought the water blaster would have leaked a bit of pressure but it didn't. The sealing system for the wires was a 3 layered process; encapsulating the wires in the epoxy, then coating the insulation for an inch up from where they came out of? the epoxy, & over the epoxy with a 2 part heat activated pvc glue that they use on inflatable boats. This glue worked a lot better on the pvc insulation than several others I tried like E61000 (supposed to be better than shoe goo), 3M 5200 & polyurethane. Over this, to tidy it up & act as a cable support, I moulded polyurethane. In the attached photos the white ptfe gasket that the lens sits on looks wet but it is just the compression of the lens against the gasket. I don't like this from a cosmetic point & may change it. The 2 objects with the light are the male mould for the polyurethane cable support & the silicone mould for the same. Alan Sent from my iPad__________________________ _____________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 19:26:07 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 23:26:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test In-Reply-To: <1245914876.2777861.1498515925705@mail.yahoo.com> References: <3F9A881C-F94A-4F3D-B911-232CFDDDACAE@yahoo.com> <120644914.2524097.1498477721390@mail.yahoo.com> <60DAF247-6746-4372-B3E6-181C4A62DB7B@yahoo.com> <235575785.2994909.1498507708410@mail.yahoo.com> <1758313329.2769275.1498511950473@mail.yahoo.com> <1793756246.3062318.1498513815370@mail.yahoo.com> <1245914876.2777861.1498515925705@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2029068749.3148986.1498519567993@mail.yahoo.com> Greg,Do you know Ron personally, were you involved with the port?Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 4:25 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, The steel that Ron choice was actually much stronger than HY-100. Here is an article you might find interesting- http://www.ansys.com/-/media/Ansys/corporate/resourcelibrary/article/AA-V6-I3-Deep-Dive.pdf Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,Thank you for the acrylic offer, that would be great, of coarse I will be looking to you for?annealing. ?The CNG sphere at 48 in ID and 3.25 in thick ?could do it but it would be past the safe woking pressure witch is 4444.8 psi just shy of 10,000 feetThe sphere your talking about was probably exotic steel like HY-100Edmonton Exchanger did say they would press a HY steel head for me but foam is cheaper I think.Pity about the CNG sphere because they have a life of 300 years and I can pick one up in Texas for 8KHank On Monday, June 26, 2017 3:20 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I'm surprised to hear you say that the CNG sphere is too light. My "seat of the pants" engineering tells me that a CNG sphere would be plenty. Are you sure its too light? If memory serves me correctly, the sphere that Ron Allum made was 42" OD x 2.5" thick gun barrel steel and had a 1.4/1 safety factor at 38,000 ft. What thickness acrylic do you need for the port? I'll donate a piece of 4" to the cause if that will help. Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,?I do not have a plan for getting on site. ?I have a plan to get there, East Coast that is. ?I can haul it cross country myself.Right now it is a dream really, not a plan. ?But Elementary 3000 started that way. ?I do have it mostly figured out, and I have an EFA guy lined up through Karl Stanley. ? I will have two heads pressed and machined at Edmonton Exchanger in Edmonton Alberta. ?My original CNG sphere plan is to light. ?I think the getting on site part will evolve, I am sure money will make that happen easily.Thanks' for calling it "interesting" and not ridiculous. ;-)Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 12:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks David,I get 7000 lumens. Have a dimmer control for it buthaven't tried it yet.Alan Sent from my iPad On 27/06/2017, at 3:08 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, Looks great!, what Lumens did you get with this design? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 4:48 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,That really turned out nice, how did you mould the polyurethane? that stuff sticks like mad.?I would leave the white gasket, it looks fine.? Either the gasket thickness is not even or the seat is not perfectly matched to the Lenz. On Sunday, June 25, 2017 10:30 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Pressure tested my light to 1000 psi for an hour using the water blaster & no leaks! I didn't have a pressure relief valve in the system as I do with my air pressure set up & it was a pain getting the chamber lid off. I had thought the water blaster would have leaked a bit of pressure but it didn't. The sealing system for the wires was a 3 layered process; encapsulating the wires in the epoxy, then coating the insulation for an inch up from where they came out of? the epoxy, & over the epoxy with a 2 part heat activated pvc glue that they use on inflatable boats. This glue worked a lot better on the pvc insulation than several others I tried like E61000 (supposed to be better than shoe goo), 3M 5200 & polyurethane. Over this, to tidy it up & act as a cable support, I moulded polyurethane. In the attached photos the white ptfe gasket that the lens sits on looks wet but it is just the compression of the lens against the gasket. I don't like this from a cosmetic point & may change it. The 2 objects with the light are the male mould for the polyurethane cable support & the silicone mould for the same. Alan Sent from my iPad__________________________ _____________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 19:55:09 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 23:55:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Meet George References: <1692248839.3155526.1498521309088.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1692248839.3155526.1498521309088@mail.yahoo.com> Yeah the two front tanks and oblique cone are mbts.The tail is just sex appeal but it might help when towing.? I decided on the oblique cone to make it easier to launch in shallow water. The CT is a standard K350 design beefed up a bit. I would like more ports but remember reading on the list about issues? having access to welding. Wadda think more, smaller ports ? The top tanks are hp. I've since lowered them and gotten rid of 2. As you can see I've borrowed ideas from the list. You can't see it but the props are Hank's stacked/reversed design.What are your thoughts of that design, Hank? I've also stolen Alec's emergency buoy and jettisonable thruster designs. I like that design because I plan to have extra thu hulls and I can add or remove thrusters as needed or budget permits. I'm looking forward to reports on their performance. Since moving the hp I now have room to the have the horizontals stacked aft. I've added 4 extra thru hulls to CT just in case. I think I found a compromise to the weight/balance issues and gotten rid of the battery pods. The shell and heads are 42" od x .5. The hull frame rings and webs are 1.5" x .5 ". The frames are placed 24" c-c. I'm aiming for a depth of 700'. It's has been and will be years in design and will be years before it makes it to steel if ever. From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 6:01 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Meet George Pete,I didn't notice the drawings you sent, glad Alan mentioned them. ?That looks real robust, I love the deck! ?I think you would like more ports in the CT, I didn't realize the difference until I got Gamma with 8 ports. ?It really makes a huge difference. ?I almost tried the ?twin in line thruster idea, but chickened out, thinking it might be a problem, mind you, you might have them raked a bit and it doesn't show in the picture. ? I assume the aft tilted down cone is a MBT and the the two front tanks the same. ?What are the aft top tanks? HP air? ? Nice design, it is real practical to construct. ?It might be nice to get those HP bottles down lower, ?for balance, every bit helps. ?Hank? On Sunday, June 25, 2017 1:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nice CAD work Pete, I am not sure about your thruster placements. I like the idea of redundant horizontal thrusters but not sure about having them in line. Carl Stanley's Idabel has 4 horizontal thrusters, but has them in two sets side by side. Also the kort nozzles of the vertical thrusters seem to be in the way of the thrust from the horizontal thrusters. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/06/2017, at 2:52 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 6/24/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ement > Date: Saturday, June 24, 2017, 8:11 e idea > the > > Pete,A > lottery win would help ,lol.? I will not rotate the sphere, > I will launch it with me in it, in the correct orientation. >? I will go old school with the batteries and use oil > filled lead acid, for simplicity and low cost.? Personally > if I were building a K350 variant, I would not? bother with > pods, I would have AGM internal batteries.? Again for cost, > simplicity and speed of construction, increase the hull > diameter to 42 inches while your at it.? Emile has the > perfect set up, I would copy that.Hank > > >? ? On Saturday, June 24, 2017 7:00 PM, Pete > Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > >? WOW ! > Are you going to rotate the sphere to have the port ( I > assume you mean View Port) where you want it ? > You > seem to have cracked quite a few nuts that challenged > Psubbers. > What > about > > Thru > hulls for control, power, life support, comm, etc. > Battery > banks ( I'm especially interested in this. I am working > on a design of a K350 variant and I don't the like > battery pods > > Thrusters > and compansation. > I > hope you win the lottery some day. > > > > >? From: hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: > Saturday, June 24, 2017 6:38 PM >? Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > > > Hi Pete,Elementary > 12,000? will have a 48 inch by? 3.25 in thick occupant > sphere 516-70 steel, and it will weigh 8,000 lbs.? The port > and hatch will be combined, and the hatch land will be a > bolt in place part.? I will machine the conical opening > with my own flange facing machine.? If I achieve the > accuracy with the land that? I have with Elementary, 3000 > that will be great, if not then I will have it re-machined > professionally.? The new sphere will go in place of the > sphere in Elementary 3000 and all the parts will be swapped > out.? That is the plan Hank > > > >? ? On Saturday, June 24, > 2017 2:22 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > >? Hank, What are your preliminary hull specs for > Elementary 12000? > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 6/23/17, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >? Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. >? To: "Personal Submersibles General > Discussion" >? Date: Friday, June 23, > 2017, 8:44 PM > >? Hank,yes the gas tanks > may >? be expensive. You > could possibly make >? a > series of boxes for the petrol. Make a box out >? ofmarine >? ply, seal it with epoxy, > drill a couple of holes in the >? bottom & glue ina flexible membrane >? across the inside bottom > of the box. Then seal a top >? on with a > > valve for filling. Just brain storming here!Alan > >? Sent >? from my iPad >? On >? 24/06/2017, at 1:12 PM, > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >? >? wrote: > >? Alan,Those >? look amazing and > expensive.? I am not saying it is not >? doable, I am just > very nervous due to lack of >? knowledge.? I am sure with proper engineering > and safety >? grounding > it can be safe.? I would go with CNG type 4 tanks >? before I did gasoline. >? I can buy one brand new tank that >? will provide all the > buoyancy I need for 2,500-3,000? or I >? can buy a used tank that > is current until 2030 for 1,100 >? dollars plus shipping.? Also the CNG tank only > adds 105 lbs >? plus > compressed air weight to the? dry weight, making the >? sub easy to lift onto the > deck of my proposed landing >? craft.Hank > > > >? ? ? On Friday, June > 23, >? 2017 6:32 PM, Alan > James via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? ? > >? Hank,I had >? another quick Google on > collapsible petrol > > containers.There >? is a > huge variety, with manufacturers offering tailor >? made products.Here >? is a news item about them > using them on the jetpack. They >? have a collapsible >? fuel tank strapped to their > back.http://www.atlinc.com/newsreleases.htmlAlan > > > > >? ? ? >? ? From: hank pronk > via > > Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal >? Submersibles General > Discussion > >? Sent: Saturday, June >? 24, 2017 11:16 AM >? Subject: Re: >? [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic > foam. >? ? > >? Alan,I am >? still considering that > idea but Sean said NO ;-(? It is >? cheap and I would have > lots of exta buoyancy.? This is good >? for Elementary 3,000 but > not Elementary 12,000.? I want to >? explore all ideas,? and > will end up where I started with >? spheres in epoxy ;-)Hank > > >? ? ? On Friday, June 23, > 2017 5:01 PM, >? Alan via > Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? ? > >? Hank,what happened to > your >? idea of using > composite tanks pressurised with >? air?As long > > as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a >? drop weight thatcould > compensate for >? one > failing, that would be ok wouldn't it?If you were > filling to >? 3000psi, > they wouldn't see external pressure till >? 6000ft.You >? could always test the > idea at Nuytco.Alan > > >? Sent from my iPad >? On >? 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, > hank pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: > >? LOL,I >? checked on > the compressibility and it will compress >? .5 percent, per 1,000 psi >? same as hydraulic oil.? I have >? weighed two types of > Olive oil today and the specific >? gravity is actually .86g\cc? so it is to > heavy.? I >? can't > seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc >? ? if you buy in bulk it > is 5 dollars per kg? so >? far.I am > > not even sure I can drive down the road with that much > gas, >? mind you it would > be hidden behind panels on the sub.? Then >? there is the expansion > while it sits in the hot weather. >? If the tree huggers heard about it they would > crap in >? their pants > and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run >? a VW van lol.Hank > > >? ? ? On Friday, June > 23, >? 2017 3:53 PM, Alan > via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? ? > >? Hank,is that extra > virgin or >? cold > pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder >? pressure.Olive oil would > be an >? expensive way to > go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use >? it. Not >? sure why you fear > gasoline; they let women pump it in to >? their cars >? at gas stations!Cheers > Alan >? Sent >? from my iPad >? On >? 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >? >? wrote: > >? Alec,Thank >? you, I should have bought > those instead of the 11 inch, >? grrrr.? I could go with those floats, but I do > hope to >? build the next > generation? Elementary sub.? I want to >? figure out the whole foam > thing and possibly carry it over >? to the next sub.? Alan has really intrigued me > with using >? gasoline, I > am terrified of that idea but it has caused me >? to stumble onto another > liquid.? In searching I have >? discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter >? than gasoline, and > obviously safer for me and the >? environment.? I have no idea yet if it is an > option, I only > > stumbled onto it this morning.? If anyone knows of a > bad >? reason to use > Olive Oil, please let me know.? Olive Oil is >? .703 g\cc and I can > put it into plastic containers that >? are .93 g\cc Hank > > >? ? ? On Friday, June > 23, >? 2017 9:28 AM, Alec > Smyth via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? ? > >? Actually there are >? trawl floats rated to > 1800m. That should have you covered >? Hank! Check out #629 > below. >? http://trawlworks.com/floats.html > >? Best, > >? Alec >? On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 > at >? 1:21 PM, Brian Cox > via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? These guys have > 14" >? spherical > buoys rated to 800 meters? - $120.00? ? with >? a positive buoyancy of 39 > #? ? they are not syntactic. >? The syntactics start at 30" in dia >? >? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ > > buoyancy.htm? Brian >? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. >? org wrote: > >? From: james >? cottrell via > Personal_Submersibles ? org> >? To: >? Personal Submersibles > General Discussion ? org> >? Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic >? foam. >? Date: > Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 >? +0000 (UTC) > > >? Deep sea glass floats > are rated for 10,000 > > psi >? http://teledynebenthos.com/ > > product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- >? spheres > >? Greg > >? ? ? ? >? From: Alan via >? Personal_Submersibles > ? org> >? To: Personal >? Submersibles General > Discussion ? org> >? Sent: Monday, June > 12, >? 2017 6:18 PM >? Subject: Re: >? [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic > foam. >? ? > >? Hank,if you >? are getting 3lb of > floatation per gallon then you need >? 184gallons of gas. 184 x > 3 = 552 ( near > > enough).Cheers Alan > > >? Sent from my iPad >? On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 > AM, hank pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: > >? Alan,I need 550 lbs > flotation? and one imp >? gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that > gives me 3 >? lbs > buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons >? of gas.Hank > > >? ? ? On Monday, June > 12, >? 2017 3:43 PM, Alan > via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > > >? Hank,are you sure > that's >? right!That > would give 1900kg of floatation ( >? nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being > .71 >? of the weight of > water. So every litreof gas >? gives you about 290 grams of > floatation. Metric > > system is much easier for calculating these >? things.Cheers Alan > >? Sent from my iPad >? On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 > PM, hank pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: > >? Alan,Those >? are nice, I can see other > uses for them.? If I use >? gasoline, I would need about? 1,750 imperial > gallons for > > Elementary.? ? I was mistaken about the? liquid > paraffin, >? gasoline is > better. > >? ? ? On Sunday, June > 11, >? 2017 11:36 PM, > Alan via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > >? Maybe >? something like this > collapsable plastic fuel >? tank, inside a protective fibreglass housing, > or >? a grate > arrangement.? https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ > > atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan >? Sent from my iPad >? On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via >? Personal_Submersibles > ? org> wrote: > >? Alan,Yes I >? have, it is very simple > and effective.? There are of coarse >? some hazardous > logistical problems not to >? mention environmental concerns.? I would opt > for >? diesel fuel to > reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have >? plastic and gas it is > dangerous.? Last week I did a barge >? job replacing dock > piles.? When I walked up and down the >? plastic dock floats, > every time I touched the steel piles I >? got a spark.? Actually > Liquid paraffin is even better at >? .8g\ccHank > >? ? ? On > Sunday, June 11, >? 2017 > 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > > >? Hank,have you looked at > using >? gasoline?More > volume required for the same >? floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from > the >? holding tanks it > would cost you nothing, as >? youcould use it after the dive. If you > designed >? right you > could fill the tanksat your >? destination.Alan > >? Sent from > my iPad >? On 12/06/2017, > at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via >? Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: > >? Greg,that sounds good, >? I would love to find a > more cost effective foam.? I still >? want to build one more > sub that goes much deeper, but the >? foam cost is not > manageable.? I estimate I can build a >? Titanic capable sub >? for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is >? foam.? ;-(Hank > >? ? ? On Sunday, June > 11, >? 2017 8:29 AM, hank > pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > >? Greg,There has to be > good reason to make foam by >? other means than standard practices.? Cost > would be the >? biggest > reason, and using wax will probably work, but is >? there a saving?? Using > wax means you have to use a >? deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of > reinforcement >? provided > by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost >? difference would be. > Maybe the cost is still much >? better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the > resin is >? not the > expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, >? to look for a replacement > for the spheres.? In Cliff's >? report it shows the resin triples the > sphere's > > performance.? That implies that the true strength comes >? from the resin.? Maybe a > sawdust resin or a styrofoam >? granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe > it is a >? simple as air > entrained resin?Fun to > > think about anyways.Hank > >? ? ? On > Sunday, June 11, >? 2017 > 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > >? Hi Scott,Thanks >? for the offer, but I need > foam for 3,000 > > feet.Hank > >? ? ? On Saturday, June > 10, >? 2017 9:03 PM, > Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > > >? Hank, >? Hola from Costa Rica! >? Depends on if they are > glass or >? carbon fiber > spheres and what size they are. They are all >? pretty durable. We are > actually cutting up the foam on >? Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we >? want. >? I do have a >? ton of syntactic foam > that is cert to 400m that I'd sell >? you for super cheap. Like > all of it for $200 > > Thanks,Scott >? Waters > > >? Sent from my >? U.S. Cellular? > Smartphone >? -------- > Original message > > --------From: hank pronk via >? Personal_Submersibles ? org> Date: 6/10/17 > 12:38 PM? (GMT-06:00) > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? ? org> Subject: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic >? foam. >? I > have an idea, but not sure if it will work. >? My idea is to fill a > neutrally buoyant container with macro >? and micro spheres. > After the container is as full as >? possible, then fill with an environmentally > friendly oil. >? This > would be more buoyant than using a resin and less >? complicated and > cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the >? spheres stand up against > breaking from being in contact with >? the other spheres and the > container.? Are these spheres >? delicate? > >? Hank______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >? ? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >? ? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >? >? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >? >? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >? >? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >? >? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > >? ? > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > ______________________________ >? _________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org > >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >? >? ? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >? >? ? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >? ? ? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >? ? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >? >? ? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >? ? _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 19:52:19 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 23:52:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test In-Reply-To: <2029068749.3148986.1498519567993@mail.yahoo.com> References: <3F9A881C-F94A-4F3D-B911-232CFDDDACAE@yahoo.com> <120644914.2524097.1498477721390@mail.yahoo.com> <60DAF247-6746-4372-B3E6-181C4A62DB7B@yahoo.com> <235575785.2994909.1498507708410@mail.yahoo.com> <1758313329.2769275.1498511950473@mail.yahoo.com> <1793756246.3062318.1498513815370@mail.yahoo.com> <1245914876.2777861.1498515925705@mail.yahoo.com> <2029068749.3148986.1498519567993@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <671937743.2825385.1498521139539@mail.yahoo.com> I had the pleasure of meeting him at Nat Geo when Jim C was there with the sub and gave a talk. Ron is THE MAN! Probably the most knowledgeable DEEP sub builder today. If you're serious about Titanic, find out EVERYTHING you can about the way he put that sub together.One thing he told me was never used silicone grease on a viewport and added that ?"it is the worst". Through testing, Ron discovered that a lot of accepted standards and practices about deep sub construction are actually not correct. Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 7:32 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,Do you know Ron personally, were you involved with the port?Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 4:25 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, The steel that Ron choice was actually much stronger than HY-100. Here is an article you might find interesting- http://www.ansys.com/-/media/Ansys/corporate/resourcelibrary/article/AA-V6-I3-Deep-Dive.pdf Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,Thank you for the acrylic offer, that would be great, of coarse I will be looking to you for?annealing. ?The CNG sphere at 48 in ID and 3.25 in thick ?could do it but it would be past the safe woking pressure witch is 4444.8 psi just shy of 10,000 feetThe sphere your talking about was probably exotic steel like HY-100Edmonton Exchanger did say they would press a HY steel head for me but foam is cheaper I think.Pity about the CNG sphere because they have a life of 300 years and I can pick one up in Texas for 8KHank On Monday, June 26, 2017 3:20 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I'm surprised to hear you say that the CNG sphere is too light. My "seat of the pants" engineering tells me that a CNG sphere would be plenty. Are you sure its too light? If memory serves me correctly, the sphere that Ron Allum made was 42" OD x 2.5" thick gun barrel steel and had a 1.4/1 safety factor at 38,000 ft. What thickness acrylic do you need for the port? I'll donate a piece of 4" to the cause if that will help. Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,?I do not have a plan for getting on site. ?I have a plan to get there, East Coast that is. ?I can haul it cross country myself.Right now it is a dream really, not a plan. ?But Elementary 3000 started that way. ?I do have it mostly figured out, and I have an EFA guy lined up through Karl Stanley. ? I will have two heads pressed and machined at Edmonton Exchanger in Edmonton Alberta. ?My original CNG sphere plan is to light. ?I think the getting on site part will evolve, I am sure money will make that happen easily.Thanks' for calling it "interesting" and not ridiculous. ;-)Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 12:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks David,I get 7000 lumens. Have a dimmer control for it buthaven't tried it yet.Alan Sent from my iPad On 27/06/2017, at 3:08 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, Looks great!, what Lumens did you get with this design? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 4:48 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,That really turned out nice, how did you mould the polyurethane? that stuff sticks like mad.?I would leave the white gasket, it looks fine.? Either the gasket thickness is not even or the seat is not perfectly matched to the Lenz. On Sunday, June 25, 2017 10:30 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Pressure tested my light to 1000 psi for an hour using the water blaster & no leaks! I didn't have a pressure relief valve in the system as I do with my air pressure set up & it was a pain getting the chamber lid off. I had thought the water blaster would have leaked a bit of pressure but it didn't. The sealing system for the wires was a 3 layered process; encapsulating the wires in the epoxy, then coating the insulation for an inch up from where they came out of? the epoxy, & over the epoxy with a 2 part heat activated pvc glue that they use on inflatable boats. This glue worked a lot better on the pvc insulation than several others I tried like E61000 (supposed to be better than shoe goo), 3M 5200 & polyurethane. Over this, to tidy it up & act as a cable support, I moulded polyurethane. In the attached photos the white ptfe gasket that the lens sits on looks wet but it is just the compression of the lens against the gasket. I don't like this from a cosmetic point & may change it. The 2 objects with the light are the male mould for the polyurethane cable support & the silicone mould for the same. Alan Sent from my iPad__________________________ _____________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 20:09:00 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 00:09:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Meet George In-Reply-To: <1692248839.3155526.1498521309088@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1692248839.3155526.1498521309088.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1692248839.3155526.1498521309088@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1549306117.3127320.1498522140823@mail.yahoo.com> Pete,That stacked prop seemed to work and is pretty darn simple. ?I hate to say it but your shallow draft?tapered cone in the back is going to bite you in the back side. ?You might be heavy enough but I think your going to have to much air volume down low and she is going to be tippy. ?I would make an even cone like Gamma had. ?Putting your batteries inside down the middle will help. ?As for the ports, I think it a must to have 8, you can't imagine the difference. ?There is only a welding room issue if you poke the frame to far inside. ?Push them ?out a bit, as long as the engineer crowd okay's it. ?I can check my CT thickness, but I think it is 1\2 inch with 8 ports on 1 inch thick frames. ?I would copy Gamma's CT as it is super easy to build. ?The small hatch is great also and no need for a spring.Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 5:55 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yeah the two front tanks and oblique cone are mbts.The tail is just sex appeal but it might help when towing.? I decided on the oblique cone to make it easier to launch in shallow water. The CT is a standard K350 design beefed up a bit. I would like more ports but remember reading on the list about issues? having access to welding. Wadda think more, smaller ports ? The top tanks are hp. I've since lowered them and gotten rid of 2. As you can see I've borrowed ideas from the list. You can't see it but the props are Hank's stacked/reversed design.What are your thoughts of that design, Hank? I've also stolen Alec's emergency buoy and jettisonable thruster designs. I like that design because I plan to have extra thu hulls and I can add or remove thrusters as needed or budget permits. I'm looking forward to reports on their performance. Since moving the hp I now have room to the have the horizontals stacked aft. I've added 4 extra thru hulls to CT just in case. I think I found a compromise to the weight/balance issues and gotten rid of the battery pods. The shell and heads are 42" od x .5. The hull frame rings and webs are 1.5" x .5 ". The frames are placed 24" c-c. I'm aiming for a depth of 700'. It's has been and will be years in design and will be years before it makes it to steel if ever. ? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 6:01 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Meet George ? Pete,I didn't notice the drawings you sent, glad Alan mentioned them. ?That looks real robust, I love the deck! ?I think you would like more ports in the CT, I didn't realize the difference until I got Gamma with 8 ports. ?It really makes a huge difference. ?I almost tried the ?twin in line thruster idea, but chickened out, thinking it might be a problem, mind you, you might have them raked a bit and it doesn't show in the picture. ? I assume the aft tilted down cone is a MBT and the the two front tanks the same. ?What are the aft top tanks? HP air? ? Nice design, it is real practical to construct. ?It might be nice to get those HP bottles down lower, ?for balance, every bit helps. ?Hank? ? ? On Sunday, June 25, 2017 1:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Nice CAD work Pete, I am not sure about your thruster placements. I like the idea of redundant horizontal thrusters but not sure about having them in line. Carl Stanley's Idabel has 4 horizontal thrusters, but has them in two sets side by side. Also the kort nozzles of the vertical thrusters seem to be in the way of the thrust from the horizontal thrusters. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/06/2017, at 2:52 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 6/24/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ement > Date: Saturday, June 24, 2017, 8:11 e idea > the > > Pete,A > lottery win would help ,lol.? I will not rotate the sphere, > I will launch it with me in it, in the correct orientation. >?? I will go old school with the batteries and use oil > filled lead acid, for simplicity and low cost.? Personally > if I were building a K350 variant, I would not? bother with > pods, I would have AGM internal batteries.? Again for cost, > simplicity and speed of construction, increase the hull > diameter to 42 inches while your at it.?? Emile has the > perfect set up, I would copy that.Hank > > >? ?? On Saturday, June 24, 2017 7:00 PM, Pete > Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > >? WOW ! > Are you going to rotate the sphere to have the port ( I > assume you mean View Port) where you want it ? > You > seem to have cracked quite a few nuts that challenged > Psubbers. > What > about > > Thru > hulls for control, power, life support, comm, etc. > Battery > banks ( I'm especially interested in this. I am working > on a design of a K350 variant and I don't the like > battery pods > > Thrusters > and compansation. > I > hope you win the lottery some day. > > > > >?? From: hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: > Saturday, June 24, 2017 6:38 PM >? Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > > > Hi Pete,Elementary > 12,000? will have a 48 inch by? 3.25 in thick occupant > sphere 516-70 steel, and it will weigh 8,000 lbs.? The port > and hatch will be combined, and the hatch land will be a > bolt in place part.? I will machine the conical opening > with my own flange facing machine.? If I achieve the > accuracy with the land that? I have with Elementary, 3000 > that will be great, if not then I will have it re-machined > professionally.? The new sphere will go in place of the > sphere in Elementary 3000 and all the parts will be swapped > out.? That is the plan Hank > > > >? ? On Saturday, June 24, > 2017 2:22 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > >? Hank, What are your preliminary hull specs for > Elementary 12000? > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 6/23/17, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >? Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. >? To: "Personal Submersibles General > Discussion" >? Date: Friday, June 23, > 2017, 8:44 PM > >? Hank,yes the gas tanks > may >? be expensive. You > could possibly make >? a > series of boxes for the petrol. Make a box out >? ofmarine >? ply, seal it with epoxy, > drill a couple of holes in the >? bottom & glue ina flexible membrane >? across the inside bottom > of the box. Then seal a top >? on with a > > valve for filling. Just brain storming here!Alan > >? Sent >? from my iPad >? On >? 24/06/2017, at 1:12 PM, > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >? >? wrote: > >? Alan,Those >? look amazing and > expensive.? I am not saying it is not >? doable, I am just > very nervous due to lack of >? knowledge.? I am sure with proper engineering > and safety >? grounding > it can be safe.? I would go with CNG type 4 tanks >? before I did gasoline. >? I can buy one brand new tank that >? will provide all the > buoyancy I need for 2,500-3,000? or I >? can buy a used tank that > is current until 2030 for 1,100 >? dollars plus shipping.? Also the CNG tank only > adds 105 lbs >? plus > compressed air weight to the? dry weight, making the >? sub easy to lift onto the > deck of my proposed landing >? craft.Hank > > > >? ? ? On Friday, June > 23, >? 2017 6:32 PM, Alan > James via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? ? > >?? Hank,I had >? another quick Google on > collapsible petrol > > containers.There >? is a > huge variety, with manufacturers offering tailor >? made products.Here >? is a news item about them > using them on the jetpack. They >? have a collapsible >? fuel tank strapped to their > back.http://www.atlinc.com/newsreleases.htmlAlan > > > > >? ? ? >? ? From: hank pronk > via > > Personal_Submersibles >?? To: Personal >? Submersibles General > Discussion > >?? Sent: Saturday, June >? 24, 2017 11:16 AM >?? Subject: Re: >? [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic > foam. >? ? > >? Alan,I am >? still considering that > idea but Sean said NO ;-(?? It is >? cheap and I would have > lots of exta buoyancy.? This is good >? for Elementary 3,000 but > not Elementary 12,000.? I want to >? explore all ideas,? and > will end up where I started with >? spheres in epoxy ;-)Hank > > >? ? ? On Friday, June 23, > 2017 5:01 PM, >? Alan via > Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? ? > >?? Hank,what happened to > your >? idea of using > composite tanks pressurised with >? air?As long > > as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a >? drop weight thatcould > compensate for >? one > failing, that would be ok wouldn't it?If you were > filling to >? 3000psi, > they wouldn't see external pressure till >? 6000ft.You >? could always test the > idea at Nuytco.Alan > > >? Sent from my iPad >? On >? 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, > hank pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: > >? LOL,I >? checked on > the compressibility and it will compress >? .5 percent, per 1,000 psi >? same as hydraulic oil.?? I have >? weighed two types of > Olive oil today and the specific >? gravity is actually .86g\cc? so it is to > heavy.? I >? can't > seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc >? ? if you buy in bulk it > is 5 dollars per kg? so >? far.I am > > not even sure I can drive down the road with that much > gas, >? mind you it would > be hidden behind panels on the sub.? Then >? there is the expansion > while it sits in the hot weather. >?? If the tree huggers heard about it they would > crap in >? their pants > and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run >? a VW van lol.Hank > > >? ? ? On Friday, June > 23, >? 2017 3:53 PM, Alan > via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? ? > >?? Hank,is that extra > virgin or >? cold > pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder >? pressure.Olive oil would > be an >? expensive way to > go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use >? it. Not >? sure why you fear > gasoline; they let women pump it in to >? their cars >? at gas stations!Cheers > Alan >? Sent >? from my iPad >? On >? 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >? >? wrote: > >? Alec,Thank >? you, I should have bought > those instead of the 11 inch, >? grrrr.? I could go with those floats, but I do > hope to >? build the next > generation? Elementary sub.? I want to >? figure out the whole foam > thing and possibly carry it over >? to the next sub.? Alan has really intrigued me > with using >? gasoline, I > am terrified of that idea but it has caused me >? to stumble onto another > liquid.? In searching I have >? discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter >? than gasoline, and > obviously safer for me and the >? environment.? I have no idea yet if it is an > option, I only > > stumbled onto it this morning.?? If anyone knows of a > bad >? reason to use > Olive Oil, please let me know.? Olive Oil is >? .703 g\cc and I can > put it into plastic containers that >? are .93 g\cc Hank > > >? ? ? On Friday, June > 23, >? 2017 9:28 AM, Alec > Smyth via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? ? > >?? Actually there are >? trawl floats rated to > 1800m. That should have you covered >? Hank! Check out #629 > below. >? http://trawlworks.com/floats.html > >? Best, > >? Alec >? On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 > at >? 1:21 PM, Brian Cox > via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? These guys have > 14" >? spherical > buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00? ? with >? a positive buoyancy of 39 > #? ? they are not syntactic. >? The syntactics start at 30" in dia >?? >? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ > > buoyancy.htm?? Brian >? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. >? org wrote: > >? From: james >? cottrell via > Personal_Submersibles ? org> >? To: >? Personal Submersibles > General Discussion ? org> >? Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic >? foam. >? Date: > Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 >? +0000 (UTC) > > >? Deep sea glass floats > are rated for 10,000 > > psi >? http://teledynebenthos.com/ > > product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- >? spheres > >? Greg > >? ? ? ? >? From: Alan via >? Personal_Submersibles > ? org> >?? To: Personal >? Submersibles General > Discussion ? org> >?? Sent: Monday, June > 12, >? 2017 6:18 PM >?? Subject: Re: >? [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic > foam. >? ? > >? Hank,if you >? are getting 3lb of > floatation per gallon then you need >? 184gallons of gas. 184 x > 3 = 552 ( near > > enough).Cheers Alan > > >? Sent from my iPad >? On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 > AM, hank pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: > >? Alan,I need 550 lbs > flotation? and one imp >? gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that > gives me 3 >? lbs > buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons >? of gas.Hank > > >? ? ? On Monday, June > 12, >? 2017 3:43 PM, Alan > via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > > >? Hank,are you sure > that's >? right!That > would give 1900kg of floatation ( >? nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being > .71 >? of the weight of > water. So every litreof gas >? gives you about 290 grams of > floatation. Metric > > system is much easier for calculating these >? things.Cheers Alan > >? Sent from my iPad >? On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 > PM, hank pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: > >? Alan,Those >? are nice, I can see other > uses for them.? If I use >? gasoline, I would need about? 1,750 imperial > gallons for > > Elementary.? ? I was mistaken about the? liquid > paraffin, >? gasoline is > better. > >? ? ? On Sunday, June > 11, >? 2017 11:36 PM, > Alan via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > >?? Maybe >? something like this > collapsable plastic fuel >? tank, inside a protective fibreglass housing, > or >? a grate > arrangement.? https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ > > atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan >? Sent from my iPad >? On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via >? Personal_Submersibles > ? org> wrote: > >? Alan,Yes I >? have, it is very simple > and effective.? There are of coarse >? some hazardous > logistical problems not to >? mention environmental concerns.? I would opt > for >? diesel fuel to > reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have >? plastic and gas it is > dangerous.? Last week I did a barge >? job replacing dock > piles.? When I walked up and down the >? plastic dock floats, > every time I touched the steel piles I >? got a spark.? Actually > Liquid paraffin is even better at >? .8g\ccHank > >? ? ? On > Sunday, June 11, >? 2017 > 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > > >? Hank,have you looked at > using >? gasoline?More > volume required for the same >? floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from > the >? holding tanks it > would cost you nothing, as >? youcould use it after the dive. If you > designed >? right you > could fill the tanksat your >? destination.Alan > >? Sent from > my iPad >? On 12/06/2017, > at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via >? Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: > >? Greg,that sounds good, >? I would love to find a > more cost effective foam.? I still >? want to build one more > sub that goes much deeper, but the >? foam cost is not > manageable.? I estimate I can build a >?? Titanic capable sub >? for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is >? foam.? ;-(Hank > >? ? ? On Sunday, June > 11, >? 2017 8:29 AM, hank > pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > >?? Greg,There has to be > good reason to make foam by >? other means than standard practices.?? Cost > would be the >? biggest > reason, and using wax will probably work, but is >? there a saving?? Using > wax means you have to use a >? deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of > reinforcement >? provided > by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost >? difference would be. > Maybe the cost is still much >? better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the > resin is >? not the > expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, >? to look for a replacement > for the spheres.? In Cliff's >? report it shows the resin triples the > sphere's > > performance.? That implies that the true strength comes >? from the resin.? Maybe a > sawdust resin or a styrofoam >? granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe > it is a >? simple as air > entrained resin?Fun to > > think about anyways.Hank > >? ? ? On > Sunday, June 11, >? 2017 > 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > >?? Hi Scott,Thanks >? for the offer, but I need > foam for 3,000 > > feet.Hank > >? ? ? On Saturday, June > 10, >? 2017 9:03 PM, > Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > > >? Hank, >? Hola from Costa Rica! >? Depends on if they are > glass or >? carbon fiber > spheres and what size they are. They are all >? pretty durable. We are > actually cutting up the foam on >? Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we >? want. >? I do have a >? ton of syntactic foam > that is cert to 400m that I'd sell >? you for super cheap. Like > all of it for $200 > > Thanks,Scott >? Waters > > >? Sent from my >? U.S. Cellular? > Smartphone >? -------- > Original message > > --------From: hank pronk via >? Personal_Submersibles ? org> Date: 6/10/17 > 12:38 PM? (GMT-06:00) > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? ? org> Subject: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic >? foam. >? I > have an idea, but not sure if it will work. >? My idea is to fill a > neutrally buoyant container with macro >? and micro spheres. > After the container is as full as >? possible, then fill with an environmentally > friendly oil. >? This > would be more buoyant than using a resin and less >? complicated and > cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the >? spheres stand up against > breaking from being in contact with >? the other spheres and the > container.?? Are these spheres >? delicate? > >? Hank______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >? ? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >? ? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > >? ? > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > ______________________________ >? _________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org > >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >? ? ? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >? ?? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >? ? _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 20:26:24 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 00:26:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test In-Reply-To: <671937743.2825385.1498521139539@mail.yahoo.com> References: <3F9A881C-F94A-4F3D-B911-232CFDDDACAE@yahoo.com> <120644914.2524097.1498477721390@mail.yahoo.com> <60DAF247-6746-4372-B3E6-181C4A62DB7B@yahoo.com> <235575785.2994909.1498507708410@mail.yahoo.com> <1758313329.2769275.1498511950473@mail.yahoo.com> <1793756246.3062318.1498513815370@mail.yahoo.com> <1245914876.2777861.1498515925705@mail.yahoo.com> <2029068749.3148986.1498519567993@mail.yahoo.com> <671937743.2825385.1498521139539@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <223823138.3168438.1498523184438@mail.yahoo.com> Greg,Being a non engineer, I am a copy cat, that is how I built Elementary 3000, I listened to what Sean had to say, I studied Scotts P6 and even duplicated Scott's P6 port and frame. ?You could take my port and fit it in Scotts sub. ?I stole the port in the Hatch Idea. ?The only idea I have had is to glue and bolt the whole thing together. ?Trieste has a second sphere from new and it is made from 3 perfectly ?machined sections.Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 5:56 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I had the pleasure of meeting him at Nat Geo when Jim C was there with the sub and gave a talk. Ron is THE MAN! Probably the most knowledgeable DEEP sub builder today. If you're serious about Titanic, find out EVERYTHING you can about the way he put that sub together.One thing he told me was never used silicone grease on a viewport and added that ?"it is the worst". Through testing, Ron discovered that a lot of accepted standards and practices about deep sub construction are actually not correct. Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 7:32 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,Do you know Ron personally, were you involved with the port?Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 4:25 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, The steel that Ron choice was actually much stronger than HY-100. Here is an article you might find interesting- http://www.ansys.com/-/media/Ansys/corporate/resourcelibrary/article/AA-V6-I3-Deep-Dive.pdf Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,Thank you for the acrylic offer, that would be great, of coarse I will be looking to you for?annealing. ?The CNG sphere at 48 in ID and 3.25 in thick ?could do it but it would be past the safe woking pressure witch is 4444.8 psi just shy of 10,000 feetThe sphere your talking about was probably exotic steel like HY-100Edmonton Exchanger did say they would press a HY steel head for me but foam is cheaper I think.Pity about the CNG sphere because they have a life of 300 years and I can pick one up in Texas for 8KHank On Monday, June 26, 2017 3:20 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I'm surprised to hear you say that the CNG sphere is too light. My "seat of the pants" engineering tells me that a CNG sphere would be plenty. Are you sure its too light? If memory serves me correctly, the sphere that Ron Allum made was 42" OD x 2.5" thick gun barrel steel and had a 1.4/1 safety factor at 38,000 ft. What thickness acrylic do you need for the port? I'll donate a piece of 4" to the cause if that will help. Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,?I do not have a plan for getting on site. ?I have a plan to get there, East Coast that is. ?I can haul it cross country myself.Right now it is a dream really, not a plan. ?But Elementary 3000 started that way. ?I do have it mostly figured out, and I have an EFA guy lined up through Karl Stanley. ? I will have two heads pressed and machined at Edmonton Exchanger in Edmonton Alberta. ?My original CNG sphere plan is to light. ?I think the getting on site part will evolve, I am sure money will make that happen easily.Thanks' for calling it "interesting" and not ridiculous. ;-)Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 12:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks David,I get 7000 lumens. Have a dimmer control for it buthaven't tried it yet.Alan Sent from my iPad On 27/06/2017, at 3:08 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, Looks great!, what Lumens did you get with this design? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 4:48 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,That really turned out nice, how did you mould the polyurethane? that stuff sticks like mad.?I would leave the white gasket, it looks fine.? Either the gasket thickness is not even or the seat is not perfectly matched to the Lenz. On Sunday, June 25, 2017 10:30 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Pressure tested my light to 1000 psi for an hour using the water blaster & no leaks! I didn't have a pressure relief valve in the system as I do with my air pressure set up & it was a pain getting the chamber lid off. I had thought the water blaster would have leaked a bit of pressure but it didn't. The sealing system for the wires was a 3 layered process; encapsulating the wires in the epoxy, then coating the insulation for an inch up from where they came out of? the epoxy, & over the epoxy with a 2 part heat activated pvc glue that they use on inflatable boats. This glue worked a lot better on the pvc insulation than several others I tried like E61000 (supposed to be better than shoe goo), 3M 5200 & polyurethane. Over this, to tidy it up & act as a cable support, I moulded polyurethane. In the attached photos the white ptfe gasket that the lens sits on looks wet but it is just the compression of the lens against the gasket. I don't like this from a cosmetic point & may change it. The 2 objects with the light are the male mould for the polyurethane cable support & the silicone mould for the same. Alan Sent from my iPad__________________________ _____________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 20:47:51 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 17:47:51 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Message-ID: <767660.94831.bm@smtp221.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hank, The Aluminaut was constructed in 11, ?6.5" thick sections bolted together! Nothing wrong with that engineering. Keith T. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/26/17 5:26 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,Being a non engineer, I am a copy cat, that is how I built Elementary 3000, I listened to what Sean had to say, I studied Scotts P6 and even duplicated Scott's P6 port and frame. ?You could take my port and fit it in Scotts sub. ?I stole the port in the Hatch Idea. ?The only idea I have had is to glue and bolt the whole thing together. ?Trieste has a second sphere from new and it is made from 3 perfectly ?machined sections.Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 5:56 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I had the pleasure of meeting him at Nat Geo when Jim C was there with the sub and gave a talk. Ron is THE MAN! Probably the most knowledgeable DEEP sub builder today. If you're serious about Titanic, find out EVERYTHING you can about the way he put that sub together.One thing he told me was never used silicone grease on a viewport and added that ?"it is the worst". Through testing, Ron discovered that a lot of accepted standards and practices about deep sub construction are actually not correct. Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 7:32 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,Do you know Ron personally, were you involved with the port?Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 4:25 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, The steel that Ron choice was actually much stronger than HY-100. Here is an article you might find interesting- http://www.ansys.com/-/media/Ansys/corporate/resourcelibrary/article/AA-V6-I3-Deep-Dive.pdf Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,Thank you for the acrylic offer, that would be great, of coarse I will be looking to you for?annealing. ?The CNG sphere at 48 in ID and 3.25 in thick ?could do it but it would be past the safe woking pressure witch is 4444.8 psi just shy of 10,000 feetThe sphere your talking about was probably exotic steel like HY-100Edmonton Exchanger did say they would press a HY steel head for me but foam is cheaper I think.Pity about the CNG sphere because they have a life of 300 years and I can pick one up in Texas for 8KHank On Monday, June 26, 2017 3:20 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I'm surprised to hear you say that the CNG sphere is too light. My "seat of the pants" engineering tells me that a CNG sphere would be plenty. Are you sure its too light? If memory serves me correctly, the sphere that Ron Allum made was 42" OD x 2.5" thick gun barrel steel and had a 1.4/1 safety factor at 38,000 ft. What thickness acrylic do you need for the port? I'll donate a piece of 4" to the cause if that will help. Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,?I do not have a plan for getting on site. ?I have a plan to get there, East Coast that is. ?I can haul it cross country myself.Right now it is a dream really, not a plan. ?But Elementary 3000 started that way. ?I do have it mostly figured out, and I have an EFA guy lined up through Karl Stanley. ? I will have two heads pressed and machined at Edmonton Exchanger in Edmonton Alberta. ?My original CNG sphere plan is to light. ?I think the getting on site part will evolve, I am sure money will make that happen easily.Thanks' for calling it "interesting" and not ridiculous. ;-)Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 12:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks David,I get 7000 lumens. Have a dimmer control for it buthaven't tried it yet.Alan Sent from my iPad On 27/06/2017, at 3:08 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, Looks great!, what Lumens did you get with this design? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 4:48 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 20:53:51 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 00:53:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test In-Reply-To: <223823138.3168438.1498523184438@mail.yahoo.com> References: <3F9A881C-F94A-4F3D-B911-232CFDDDACAE@yahoo.com> <120644914.2524097.1498477721390@mail.yahoo.com> <60DAF247-6746-4372-B3E6-181C4A62DB7B@yahoo.com> <235575785.2994909.1498507708410@mail.yahoo.com> <1758313329.2769275.1498511950473@mail.yahoo.com> <1793756246.3062318.1498513815370@mail.yahoo.com> <1245914876.2777861.1498515925705@mail.yahoo.com> <2029068749.3148986.1498519567993@mail.yahoo.com> <671937743.2825385.1498521139539@mail.yahoo.com> <223823138.3168438.1498523184438@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <290592591.2833317.1498524831390@mail.yahoo.com> Here is a pic of Ron piloting the sub at 850 meters.http://ocean-innovations.net/OceanInnovationsNEW/Global%20Ocean%20Design/ont_part3_god.pdf Ron told me that the rule about replacing the same amount of material removed from the viewport opening was wrong -"you need a hell of a lot more" were his exact words. He also used a different steel for the hatch (300 M). He said that the best lube for the port was a "dry glide" spray from ?CRC. Contrary to popular thinking, vacuum or silcone grease stores up pressure and then releases it with a BANG! He really knows his stuff... There are a few good drawings of the DSC hull online and they might come in handy since you will be building something very similar. Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,Being a non engineer, I am a copy cat, that is how I built Elementary 3000, I listened to what Sean had to say, I studied Scotts P6 and even duplicated Scott's P6 port and frame. ?You could take my port and fit it in Scotts sub. ?I stole the port in the Hatch Idea. ?The only idea I have had is to glue and bolt the whole thing together. ?Trieste has a second sphere from new and it is made from 3 perfectly ?machined sections.Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 5:56 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I had the pleasure of meeting him at Nat Geo when Jim C was there with the sub and gave a talk. Ron is THE MAN! Probably the most knowledgeable DEEP sub builder today. If you're serious about Titanic, find out EVERYTHING you can about the way he put that sub together.One thing he told me was never used silicone grease on a viewport and added that ?"it is the worst". Through testing, Ron discovered that a lot of accepted standards and practices about deep sub construction are actually not correct. Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 7:32 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,Do you know Ron personally, were you involved with the port?Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 4:25 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, The steel that Ron choice was actually much stronger than HY-100. Here is an article you might find interesting- http://www.ansys.com/-/media/Ansys/corporate/resourcelibrary/article/AA-V6-I3-Deep-Dive.pdf Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,Thank you for the acrylic offer, that would be great, of coarse I will be looking to you for?annealing. ?The CNG sphere at 48 in ID and 3.25 in thick ?could do it but it would be past the safe woking pressure witch is 4444.8 psi just shy of 10,000 feetThe sphere your talking about was probably exotic steel like HY-100Edmonton Exchanger did say they would press a HY steel head for me but foam is cheaper I think.Pity about the CNG sphere because they have a life of 300 years and I can pick one up in Texas for 8KHank On Monday, June 26, 2017 3:20 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I'm surprised to hear you say that the CNG sphere is too light. My "seat of the pants" engineering tells me that a CNG sphere would be plenty. Are you sure its too light? If memory serves me correctly, the sphere that Ron Allum made was 42" OD x 2.5" thick gun barrel steel and had a 1.4/1 safety factor at 38,000 ft. What thickness acrylic do you need for the port? I'll donate a piece of 4" to the cause if that will help. Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,?I do not have a plan for getting on site. ?I have a plan to get there, East Coast that is. ?I can haul it cross country myself.Right now it is a dream really, not a plan. ?But Elementary 3000 started that way. ?I do have it mostly figured out, and I have an EFA guy lined up through Karl Stanley. ? I will have two heads pressed and machined at Edmonton Exchanger in Edmonton Alberta. ?My original CNG sphere plan is to light. ?I think the getting on site part will evolve, I am sure money will make that happen easily.Thanks' for calling it "interesting" and not ridiculous. ;-)Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 12:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks David,I get 7000 lumens. Have a dimmer control for it buthaven't tried it yet.Alan Sent from my iPad On 27/06/2017, at 3:08 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, Looks great!, what Lumens did you get with this design? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 4:48 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,That really turned out nice, how did you mould the polyurethane? that stuff sticks like mad.?I would leave the white gasket, it looks fine.? Either the gasket thickness is not even or the seat is not perfectly matched to the Lenz. On Sunday, June 25, 2017 10:30 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Pressure tested my light to 1000 psi for an hour using the water blaster & no leaks! I didn't have a pressure relief valve in the system as I do with my air pressure set up & it was a pain getting the chamber lid off. I had thought the water blaster would have leaked a bit of pressure but it didn't. The sealing system for the wires was a 3 layered process; encapsulating the wires in the epoxy, then coating the insulation for an inch up from where they came out of? the epoxy, & over the epoxy with a 2 part heat activated pvc glue that they use on inflatable boats. This glue worked a lot better on the pvc insulation than several others I tried like E61000 (supposed to be better than shoe goo), 3M 5200 & polyurethane. Over this, to tidy it up & act as a cable support, I moulded polyurethane. In the attached photos the white ptfe gasket that the lens sits on looks wet but it is just the compression of the lens against the gasket. I don't like this from a cosmetic point & may change it. The 2 objects with the light are the male mould for the polyurethane cable support & the silicone mould for the same. Alan Sent from my iPad__________________________ _____________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 21:36:38 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 01:36:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Meet George In-Reply-To: <1549306117.3127320.1498522140823@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1692248839.3155526.1498521309088.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1692248839.3155526.1498521309088@mail.yahoo.com> <1549306117.3127320.1498522140823@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1979983689.3208984.1498527398936@mail.yahoo.com> I love Gamma's battery box set up but I have no idea how to engineer it nor the CT . I'm a cut and paste guy with a set of K350 plans and rudimentary knowledge on how to use the online Psub tools but I'm learning. Gamma is such a beautiful design. I wish I had the knowledge to engineer it from the information that is available about it. As for the mbts nothing is set in steel and I appreciate the input. Getting input was my desire in posting the design. So,Psubbers have at it rip it apart. ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 7:12 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Meet George Pete,That stacked prop seemed to work and is pretty darn simple. ?I hate to say it but your shallow draft?tapered cone in the back is going to bite you in the back side. ?You might be heavy enough but I think your going to have to much air volume down low and she is going to be tippy. ?I would make an even cone like Gamma had. ?Putting your batteries inside down the middle will help. ?As for the ports, I think it a must to have 8, you can't imagine the difference. ?There is only a welding room issue if you poke the frame to far inside. ?Push them ?out a bit, as long as the engineer crowd okay's it. ?I can check my CT thickness, but I think it is 1\2 inch with 8 ports on 1 inch thick frames. ?I would copy Gamma's CT as it is super easy to build. ?The small hatch is great also and no need for a spring.Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 5:55 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yeah the two front tanks and oblique cone are mbts.The tail is just sex appeal but it might help when towing.? I decided on the oblique cone to make it easier to launch in shallow water. The CT is a standard K350 design beefed up a bit. I would like more ports but remember reading on the list about issues? having access to welding. Wadda think more, smaller ports ? The top tanks are hp. I've since lowered them and gotten rid of 2. As you can see I've borrowed ideas from the list. You can't see it but the props are Hank's stacked/reversed design.What are your thoughts of that design, Hank? I've also stolen Alec's emergency buoy and jettisonable thruster designs. I like that design because I plan to have extra thu hulls and I can add or remove thrusters as needed or budget permits. I'm looking forward to reports on their performance. Since moving the hp I now have room to the have the horizontals stacked aft. I've added 4 extra thru hulls to CT just in case. I think I found a compromise to the weight/balance issues and gotten rid of the battery pods. The shell and heads are 42" od x .5. The hull frame rings and webs are 1.5" x .5 ". The frames are placed 24" c-c. I'm aiming for a depth of 700'. It's has been and will be years in design and will be years before it makes it to steel if ever. ? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 6:01 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Meet George ? Pete,I didn't notice the drawings you sent, glad Alan mentioned them. ?That looks real robust, I love the deck! ?I think you would like more ports in the CT, I didn't realize the difference until I got Gamma with 8 ports. ?It really makes a huge difference. ?I almost tried the ?twin in line thruster idea, but chickened out, thinking it might be a problem, mind you, you might have them raked a bit and it doesn't show in the picture. ? I assume the aft tilted down cone is a MBT and the the two front tanks the same. ?What are the aft top tanks? HP air? ? Nice design, it is real practical to construct. ?It might be nice to get those HP bottles down lower, ?for balance, every bit helps. ?Hank? ? ? On Sunday, June 25, 2017 1:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Nice CAD work Pete, I am not sure about your thruster placements. I like the idea of redundant horizontal thrusters but not sure about having them in line. Carl Stanley's Idabel has 4 horizontal thrusters, but has them in two sets side by side. Also the kort nozzles of the vertical thrusters seem to be in the way of the thrust from the horizontal thrusters. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/06/2017, at 2:52 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 6/24/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ement > Date: Saturday, June 24, 2017, 8:11 e idea > the > > Pete,A > lottery win would help ,lol.? I will not rotate the sphere, > I will launch it with me in it, in the correct orientation. >?? I will go old school with the batteries and use oil > filled lead acid, for simplicity and low cost.? Personally > if I were building a K350 variant, I would not? bother with > pods, I would have AGM internal batteries.? Again for cost, > simplicity and speed of construction, increase the hull > diameter to 42 inches while your at it.?? Emile has the > perfect set up, I would copy that.Hank > > >? ?? On Saturday, June 24, 2017 7:00 PM, Pete > Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > >? WOW ! > Are you going to rotate the sphere to have the port ( I > assume you mean View Port) where you want it ? > You > seem to have cracked quite a few nuts that challenged > Psubbers. > What > about > > Thru > hulls for control, power, life support, comm, etc. > Battery > banks ( I'm especially interested in this. I am working > on a design of a K350 variant and I don't the like > battery pods > > Thrusters > and compansation. > I > hope you win the lottery some day. > > > > >?? From: hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: > Saturday, June 24, 2017 6:38 PM >? Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > > > Hi Pete,Elementary > 12,000? will have a 48 inch by? 3.25 in thick occupant > sphere 516-70 steel, and it will weigh 8,000 lbs.? The port > and hatch will be combined, and the hatch land will be a > bolt in place part.? I will machine the conical opening > with my own flange facing machine.? If I achieve the > accuracy with the land that? I have with Elementary, 3000 > that will be great, if not then I will have it re-machined > professionally.? The new sphere will go in place of the > sphere in Elementary 3000 and all the parts will be swapped > out.? That is the plan Hank > > > >? ? On Saturday, June 24, > 2017 2:22 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > >? Hank, What are your preliminary hull specs for > Elementary 12000? > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 6/23/17, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >? Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. >? To: "Personal Submersibles General > Discussion" >? Date: Friday, June 23, > 2017, 8:44 PM > >? Hank,yes the gas tanks > may >? be expensive. You > could possibly make >? a > series of boxes for the petrol. Make a box out >? ofmarine >? ply, seal it with epoxy, > drill a couple of holes in the >? bottom & glue ina flexible membrane >? across the inside bottom > of the box. Then seal a top >? on with a > > valve for filling. Just brain storming here!Alan > >? Sent >? from my iPad >? On >? 24/06/2017, at 1:12 PM, > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >? >? wrote: > >? Alan,Those >? look amazing and > expensive.? I am not saying it is not >? doable, I am just > very nervous due to lack of >? knowledge.? I am sure with proper engineering > and safety >? grounding > it can be safe.? I would go with CNG type 4 tanks >? before I did gasoline. >? I can buy one brand new tank that >? will provide all the > buoyancy I need for 2,500-3,000? or I >? can buy a used tank that > is current until 2030 for 1,100 >? dollars plus shipping.? Also the CNG tank only > adds 105 lbs >? plus > compressed air weight to the? dry weight, making the >? sub easy to lift onto the > deck of my proposed landing >? craft.Hank > > > >? ? ? On Friday, June > 23, >? 2017 6:32 PM, Alan > James via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? ? > >?? Hank,I had >? another quick Google on > collapsible petrol > > containers.There >? is a > huge variety, with manufacturers offering tailor >? made products.Here >? is a news item about them > using them on the jetpack. They >? have a collapsible >? fuel tank strapped to their > back.http://www.atlinc.com/newsreleases.htmlAlan > > > > >? ? ? >? ? From: hank pronk > via > > Personal_Submersibles >?? To: Personal >? Submersibles General > Discussion > >?? Sent: Saturday, June >? 24, 2017 11:16 AM >?? Subject: Re: >? [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic > foam. >? ? > >? Alan,I am >? still considering that > idea but Sean said NO ;-(?? It is >? cheap and I would have > lots of exta buoyancy.? This is good >? for Elementary 3,000 but > not Elementary 12,000.? I want to >? explore all ideas,? and > will end up where I started with >? spheres in epoxy ;-)Hank > > >? ? ? On Friday, June 23, > 2017 5:01 PM, >? Alan via > Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? ? > >?? Hank,what happened to > your >? idea of using > composite tanks pressurised with >? air?As long > > as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a >? drop weight thatcould > compensate for >? one > failing, that would be ok wouldn't it?If you were > filling to >? 3000psi, > they wouldn't see external pressure till >? 6000ft.You >? could always test the > idea at Nuytco.Alan > > >? Sent from my iPad >? On >? 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, > hank pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: > >? LOL,I >? checked on > the compressibility and it will compress >? .5 percent, per 1,000 psi >? same as hydraulic oil.?? I have >? weighed two types of > Olive oil today and the specific >? gravity is actually .86g\cc? so it is to > heavy.? I >? can't > seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc >? ? if you buy in bulk it > is 5 dollars per kg? so >? far.I am > > not even sure I can drive down the road with that much > gas, >? mind you it would > be hidden behind panels on the sub.? Then >? there is the expansion > while it sits in the hot weather. >?? If the tree huggers heard about it they would > crap in >? their pants > and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run >? a VW van lol.Hank > > >? ? ? On Friday, June > 23, >? 2017 3:53 PM, Alan > via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? ? > >?? Hank,is that extra > virgin or >? cold > pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder >? pressure.Olive oil would > be an >? expensive way to > go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use >? it. Not >? sure why you fear > gasoline; they let women pump it in to >? their cars >? at gas stations!Cheers > Alan >? Sent >? from my iPad >? On >? 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >? >? wrote: > >? Alec,Thank >? you, I should have bought > those instead of the 11 inch, >? grrrr.? I could go with those floats, but I do > hope to >? build the next > generation? Elementary sub.? I want to >? figure out the whole foam > thing and possibly carry it over >? to the next sub.? Alan has really intrigued me > with using >? gasoline, I > am terrified of that idea but it has caused me >? to stumble onto another > liquid.? In searching I have >? discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter >? than gasoline, and > obviously safer for me and the >? environment.? I have no idea yet if it is an > option, I only > > stumbled onto it this morning.?? If anyone knows of a > bad >? reason to use > Olive Oil, please let me know.? Olive Oil is >? .703 g\cc and I can > put it into plastic containers that >? are .93 g\cc Hank > > >? ? ? On Friday, June > 23, >? 2017 9:28 AM, Alec > Smyth via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? ? > >?? Actually there are >? trawl floats rated to > 1800m. That should have you covered >? Hank! Check out #629 > below. >? http://trawlworks.com/floats.html > >? Best, > >? Alec >? On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 > at >? 1:21 PM, Brian Cox > via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? These guys have > 14" >? spherical > buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00? ? with >? a positive buoyancy of 39 > #? ? they are not syntactic. >? The syntactics start at 30" in dia >?? >? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ > > buoyancy.htm?? Brian >? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. >? org wrote: > >? From: james >? cottrell via > Personal_Submersibles ? org> >? To: >? Personal Submersibles > General Discussion ? org> >? Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic >? foam. >? Date: > Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 >? +0000 (UTC) > > >? Deep sea glass floats > are rated for 10,000 > > psi >? http://teledynebenthos.com/ > > product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- >? spheres > >? Greg > >? ? ? ? >? From: Alan via >? Personal_Submersibles > ? org> >?? To: Personal >? Submersibles General > Discussion ? org> >?? Sent: Monday, June > 12, >? 2017 6:18 PM >?? Subject: Re: >? [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic > foam. >? ? > >? Hank,if you >? are getting 3lb of > floatation per gallon then you need >? 184gallons of gas. 184 x > 3 = 552 ( near > > enough).Cheers Alan > > >? Sent from my iPad >? On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 > AM, hank pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: > >? Alan,I need 550 lbs > flotation? and one imp >? gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that > gives me 3 >? lbs > buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons >? of gas.Hank > > >? ? ? On Monday, June > 12, >? 2017 3:43 PM, Alan > via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > > >? Hank,are you sure > that's >? right!That > would give 1900kg of floatation ( >? nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being > .71 >? of the weight of > water. So every litreof gas >? gives you about 290 grams of > floatation. Metric > > system is much easier for calculating these >? things.Cheers Alan > >? Sent from my iPad >? On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 > PM, hank pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: > >? Alan,Those >? are nice, I can see other > uses for them.? If I use >? gasoline, I would need about? 1,750 imperial > gallons for > > Elementary.? ? I was mistaken about the? liquid > paraffin, >? gasoline is > better. > >? ? ? On Sunday, June > 11, >? 2017 11:36 PM, > Alan via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > >?? Maybe >? something like this > collapsable plastic fuel >? tank, inside a protective fibreglass housing, > or >? a grate > arrangement.? https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ > > atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan >? Sent from my iPad >? On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via >? Personal_Submersibles > ? org> wrote: > >? Alan,Yes I >? have, it is very simple > and effective.? There are of coarse >? some hazardous > logistical problems not to >? mention environmental concerns.? I would opt > for >? diesel fuel to > reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have >? plastic and gas it is > dangerous.? Last week I did a barge >? job replacing dock > piles.? When I walked up and down the >? plastic dock floats, > every time I touched the steel piles I >? got a spark.? Actually > Liquid paraffin is even better at >? .8g\ccHank > >? ? ? On > Sunday, June 11, >? 2017 > 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > > >? Hank,have you looked at > using >? gasoline?More > volume required for the same >? floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from > the >? holding tanks it > would cost you nothing, as >? youcould use it after the dive. If you > designed >? right you > could fill the tanksat your >? destination.Alan > >? Sent from > my iPad >? On 12/06/2017, > at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via >? Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: > >? Greg,that sounds good, >? I would love to find a > more cost effective foam.? I still >? want to build one more > sub that goes much deeper, but the >? foam cost is not > manageable.? I estimate I can build a >?? Titanic capable sub >? for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is >? foam.? ;-(Hank > >? ? ? On Sunday, June > 11, >? 2017 8:29 AM, hank > pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > >?? Greg,There has to be > good reason to make foam by >? other means than standard practices.?? Cost > would be the >? biggest > reason, and using wax will probably work, but is >? there a saving?? Using > wax means you have to use a >? deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of > reinforcement >? provided > by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost >? difference would be. > Maybe the cost is still much >? better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the > resin is >? not the > expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, >? to look for a replacement > for the spheres.? In Cliff's >? report it shows the resin triples the > sphere's > > performance.? That implies that the true strength comes >? from the resin.? Maybe a > sawdust resin or a styrofoam >? granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe > it is a >? simple as air > entrained resin?Fun to > > think about anyways.Hank > >? ? ? On > Sunday, June 11, >? 2017 > 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > >?? Hi Scott,Thanks >? for the offer, but I need > foam for 3,000 > > feet.Hank > >? ? ? On Saturday, June > 10, >? 2017 9:03 PM, > Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > > >? Hank, >? Hola from Costa Rica! >? Depends on if they are > glass or >? carbon fiber > spheres and what size they are. They are all >? pretty durable. We are > actually cutting up the foam on >? Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we >? want. >? I do have a >? ton of syntactic foam > that is cert to 400m that I'd sell >? you for super cheap. Like > all of it for $200 > > Thanks,Scott >? Waters > > >? Sent from my >? U.S. Cellular? > Smartphone >? -------- > Original message > > --------From: hank pronk via >? Personal_Submersibles ? org> Date: 6/10/17 > 12:38 PM? (GMT-06:00) > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? ? org> Subject: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic >? foam. >? I > have an idea, but not sure if it will work. >? My idea is to fill a > neutrally buoyant container with macro >? and micro spheres. > After the container is as full as >? possible, then fill with an environmentally > friendly oil. >? This > would be more buoyant than using a resin and less >? complicated and > cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the >? spheres stand up against > breaking from being in contact with >? the other spheres and the > container.?? Are these spheres >? delicate? > >? Hank______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >? ? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >? ? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > >? ? > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > ______________________________ >? _________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org > >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >? ? ? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >? ?? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >? ? _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 21:46:32 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 01:46:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test In-Reply-To: <767660.94831.bm@smtp221.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <767660.94831.bm@smtp221.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2083198306.2914741.1498527992376@mail.yahoo.com> Yes- and each aluminum section was heated while the bolts that would hold it together were frozen with cryogenics. After bolting, the aluminum contracted and the bolts expanded, making it nearlyimpossible to take apart.I was at Frank Busby's house one day and he told me something interesting about Aluminaut. He said that It's original depth rating (I think it was 15,000 ft) was actually down graded to only 6,500 ft because testing revealed a weak spot in one of the end hemispheres. Frank told me that Reynolds aluminum made another aluminum hemisphere to replace the bad one but that was never done.I wonder what ever happened to the spare. Last time I saw Aluminaut it was an open air display at a science museum in Virginia. It was split in two so people could see inside. Greg From: k6fee via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 8:50 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Hank, The Aluminaut was constructed in 11, ?6.5" thick sections bolted together! Nothing wrong with that engineering. Keith T. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/26/17 5:26 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,Being a non engineer, I am a copy cat, that is how I built Elementary 3000, I listened to what Sean had to say, I studied Scotts P6 and even duplicated Scott's P6 port and frame. ?You could take my port and fit it in Scotts sub. ?I stole the port in the Hatch Idea. ?The only idea I have had is to glue and bolt the whole thing together. ?Trieste has a second sphere from new and it is made from 3 perfectly ?machined sections.Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 5:56 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I had the pleasure of meeting him at Nat Geo when Jim C was there with the sub and gave a talk. Ron is THE MAN! Probably the most knowledgeable DEEP sub builder today. If you're serious about Titanic, find out EVERYTHING you can about the way he put that sub together.One thing he told me was never used silicone grease on a viewport and added that ?"it is the worst". Through testing, Ron discovered that a lot of accepted standards and practices about deep sub construction are actually not correct. Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 7:32 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,Do you know Ron personally, were you involved with the port?Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 4:25 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, The steel that Ron choice was actually much stronger than HY-100. Here is an article you might find interesting- http://www.ansys.com/-/media/Ansys/corporate/resourcelibrary/article/AA-V6-I3-Deep-Dive.pdf Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,Thank you for the acrylic offer, that would be great, of coarse I will be looking to you for?annealing. ?The CNG sphere at 48 in ID and 3.25 in thick ?could do it but it would be past the safe woking pressure witch is 4444.8 psi just shy of 10,000 feetThe sphere your talking about was probably exotic steel like HY-100Edmonton Exchanger did say they would press a HY steel head for me but foam is cheaper I think.Pity about the CNG sphere because they have a life of 300 years and I can pick one up in Texas for 8KHank On Monday, June 26, 2017 3:20 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I'm surprised to hear you say that the CNG sphere is too light. My "seat of the pants" engineering tells me that a CNG sphere would be plenty. Are you sure its too light? If memory serves me correctly, the sphere that Ron Allum made was 42" OD x 2.5" thick gun barrel steel and had a 1.4/1 safety factor at 38,000 ft. What thickness acrylic do you need for the port? I'll donate a piece of 4" to the cause if that will help. Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Test Greg,?I do not have a plan for getting on site. ?I have a plan to get there, East Coast that is. ?I can haul it cross country myself.Right now it is a dream really, not a plan. ?But Elementary 3000 started that way. ?I do have it mostly figured out, and I have an EFA guy lined up through Karl Stanley. ? I will have two heads pressed and machined at Edmonton Exchanger in Edmonton Alberta. ?My original CNG sphere plan is to light. ?I think the getting on site part will evolve, I am sure money will make that happen easily.Thanks' for calling it "interesting" and not ridiculous. ;-)Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 12:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks David,I get 7000 lumens. Have a dimmer control for it buthaven't tried it yet.Alan Sent from my iPad On 27/06/2017, at 3:08 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, Looks great!, what Lumens did you get with this design? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 4:48 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 21:59:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 01:59:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Meet George In-Reply-To: <1979983689.3208984.1498527398936@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1692248839.3155526.1498521309088.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1692248839.3155526.1498521309088@mail.yahoo.com> <1549306117.3127320.1498522140823@mail.yahoo.com> <1979983689.3208984.1498527398936@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <402727952.3202497.1498528796302@mail.yahoo.com> Pete,The battery box in Gamma would be cost prohibitive in welding time. ?I can give you drawings of the CT I can even send you a copy of the original CT drawing.Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 7:37 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I love Gamma's battery box set up but I have no idea how to engineer it nor the CT . I'm a cut and paste guy with a set of K350 plans and rudimentary knowledge on how to use the online Psub tools but I'm learning. Gamma is such a beautiful design. I wish I had the knowledge to engineer it from the information that is available about it. As for the mbts nothing is set in steel and I appreciate the input. Getting input was my desire in posting the design. So,Psubbers have at it rip it apart. ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 7:12 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Meet George Pete,That stacked prop seemed to work and is pretty darn simple. ?I hate to say it but your shallow draft?tapered cone in the back is going to bite you in the back side. ?You might be heavy enough but I think your going to have to much air volume down low and she is going to be tippy. ?I would make an even cone like Gamma had. ?Putting your batteries inside down the middle will help. ?As for the ports, I think it a must to have 8, you can't imagine the difference. ?There is only a welding room issue if you poke the frame to far inside. ?Push them ?out a bit, as long as the engineer crowd okay's it. ?I can check my CT thickness, but I think it is 1\2 inch with 8 ports on 1 inch thick frames. ?I would copy Gamma's CT as it is super easy to build. ?The small hatch is great also and no need for a spring.Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 5:55 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yeah the two front tanks and oblique cone are mbts.The tail is just sex appeal but it might help when towing.? I decided on the oblique cone to make it easier to launch in shallow water. The CT is a standard K350 design beefed up a bit. I would like more ports but remember reading on the list about issues? having access to welding. Wadda think more, smaller ports ? The top tanks are hp. I've since lowered them and gotten rid of 2. As you can see I've borrowed ideas from the list. You can't see it but the props are Hank's stacked/reversed design.What are your thoughts of that design, Hank? I've also stolen Alec's emergency buoy and jettisonable thruster designs. I like that design because I plan to have extra thu hulls and I can add or remove thrusters as needed or budget permits. I'm looking forward to reports on their performance. Since moving the hp I now have room to the have the horizontals stacked aft. I've added 4 extra thru hulls to CT just in case. I think I found a compromise to the weight/balance issues and gotten rid of the battery pods. The shell and heads are 42" od x .5. The hull frame rings and webs are 1.5" x .5 ". The frames are placed 24" c-c. I'm aiming for a depth of 700'. It's has been and will be years in design and will be years before it makes it to steel if ever. ? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 6:01 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Meet George ? Pete,I didn't notice the drawings you sent, glad Alan mentioned them. ?That looks real robust, I love the deck! ?I think you would like more ports in the CT, I didn't realize the difference until I got Gamma with 8 ports. ?It really makes a huge difference. ?I almost tried the ?twin in line thruster idea, but chickened out, thinking it might be a problem, mind you, you might have them raked a bit and it doesn't show in the picture. ? I assume the aft tilted down cone is a MBT and the the two front tanks the same. ?What are the aft top tanks? HP air? ? Nice design, it is real practical to construct. ?It might be nice to get those HP bottles down lower, ?for balance, every bit helps. ?Hank? ? ? On Sunday, June 25, 2017 1:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Nice CAD work Pete, I am not sure about your thruster placements. I like the idea of redundant horizontal thrusters but not sure about having them in line. Carl Stanley's Idabel has 4 horizontal thrusters, but has them in two sets side by side. Also the kort nozzles of the vertical thrusters seem to be in the way of the thrust from the horizontal thrusters. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/06/2017, at 2:52 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 6/24/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ement > Date: Saturday, June 24, 2017, 8:11 e idea > the > > Pete,A > lottery win would help ,lol.? I will not rotate the sphere, > I will launch it with me in it, in the correct orientation. >?? I will go old school with the batteries and use oil > filled lead acid, for simplicity and low cost.? Personally > if I were building a K350 variant, I would not? bother with > pods, I would have AGM internal batteries.? Again for cost, > simplicity and speed of construction, increase the hull > diameter to 42 inches while your at it.?? Emile has the > perfect set up, I would copy that.Hank > > >? ?? On Saturday, June 24, 2017 7:00 PM, Pete > Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > >? WOW ! > Are you going to rotate the sphere to have the port ( I > assume you mean View Port) where you want it ? > You > seem to have cracked quite a few nuts that challenged > Psubbers. > What > about > > Thru > hulls for control, power, life support, comm, etc. > Battery > banks ( I'm especially interested in this. I am working > on a design of a K350 variant and I don't the like > battery pods > > Thrusters > and compansation. > I > hope you win the lottery some day. > > > > >?? From: hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: > Saturday, June 24, 2017 6:38 PM >? Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > > > Hi Pete,Elementary > 12,000? will have a 48 inch by? 3.25 in thick occupant > sphere 516-70 steel, and it will weigh 8,000 lbs.? The port > and hatch will be combined, and the hatch land will be a > bolt in place part.? I will machine the conical opening > with my own flange facing machine.? If I achieve the > accuracy with the land that? I have with Elementary, 3000 > that will be great, if not then I will have it re-machined > professionally.? The new sphere will go in place of the > sphere in Elementary 3000 and all the parts will be swapped > out.? That is the plan Hank > > > >? ? On Saturday, June 24, > 2017 2:22 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > >? Hank, What are your preliminary hull specs for > Elementary 12000? > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 6/23/17, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >? Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. >? To: "Personal Submersibles General > Discussion" >? Date: Friday, June 23, > 2017, 8:44 PM > >? Hank,yes the gas tanks > may >? be expensive. You > could possibly make >? a > series of boxes for the petrol. Make a box out >? ofmarine >? ply, seal it with epoxy, > drill a couple of holes in the >? bottom & glue ina flexible membrane >? across the inside bottom > of the box. Then seal a top >? on with a > > valve for filling. Just brain storming here!Alan > >? Sent >? from my iPad >? On >? 24/06/2017, at 1:12 PM, > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >? >? wrote: > >? Alan,Those >? look amazing and > expensive.? I am not saying it is not >? doable, I am just > very nervous due to lack of >? knowledge.? I am sure with proper engineering > and safety >? grounding > it can be safe.? I would go with CNG type 4 tanks >? before I did gasoline. >? I can buy one brand new tank that >? will provide all the > buoyancy I need for 2,500-3,000? or I >? can buy a used tank that > is current until 2030 for 1,100 >? dollars plus shipping.? Also the CNG tank only > adds 105 lbs >? plus > compressed air weight to the? dry weight, making the >? sub easy to lift onto the > deck of my proposed landing >? craft.Hank > > > >? ? ? On Friday, June > 23, >? 2017 6:32 PM, Alan > James via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? ? > >?? Hank,I had >? another quick Google on > collapsible petrol > > containers.There >? is a > huge variety, with manufacturers offering tailor >? made products.Here >? is a news item about them > using them on the jetpack. They >? have a collapsible >? fuel tank strapped to their > back.http://www.atlinc.com/newsreleases.htmlAlan > > > > >? ? ? >? ? From: hank pronk > via > > Personal_Submersibles >?? To: Personal >? Submersibles General > Discussion > >?? Sent: Saturday, June >? 24, 2017 11:16 AM >?? Subject: Re: >? [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic > foam. >? ? > >? Alan,I am >? still considering that > idea but Sean said NO ;-(?? It is >? cheap and I would have > lots of exta buoyancy.? This is good >? for Elementary 3,000 but > not Elementary 12,000.? I want to >? explore all ideas,? and > will end up where I started with >? spheres in epoxy ;-)Hank > > >? ? ? On Friday, June 23, > 2017 5:01 PM, >? Alan via > Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? ? > >?? Hank,what happened to > your >? idea of using > composite tanks pressurised with >? air?As long > > as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a >? drop weight thatcould > compensate for >? one > failing, that would be ok wouldn't it?If you were > filling to >? 3000psi, > they wouldn't see external pressure till >? 6000ft.You >? could always test the > idea at Nuytco.Alan > > >? Sent from my iPad >? On >? 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, > hank pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: > >? LOL,I >? checked on > the compressibility and it will compress >? .5 percent, per 1,000 psi >? same as hydraulic oil.?? I have >? weighed two types of > Olive oil today and the specific >? gravity is actually .86g\cc? so it is to > heavy.? I >? can't > seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc >? ? if you buy in bulk it > is 5 dollars per kg? so >? far.I am > > not even sure I can drive down the road with that much > gas, >? mind you it would > be hidden behind panels on the sub.? Then >? there is the expansion > while it sits in the hot weather. >?? If the tree huggers heard about it they would > crap in >? their pants > and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run >? a VW van lol.Hank > > >? ? ? On Friday, June > 23, >? 2017 3:53 PM, Alan > via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? ? > >?? Hank,is that extra > virgin or >? cold > pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder >? pressure.Olive oil would > be an >? expensive way to > go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use >? it. Not >? sure why you fear > gasoline; they let women pump it in to >? their cars >? at gas stations!Cheers > Alan >? Sent >? from my iPad >? On >? 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >? >? wrote: > >? Alec,Thank >? you, I should have bought > those instead of the 11 inch, >? grrrr.? I could go with those floats, but I do > hope to >? build the next > generation? Elementary sub.? I want to >? figure out the whole foam > thing and possibly carry it over >? to the next sub.? Alan has really intrigued me > with using >? gasoline, I > am terrified of that idea but it has caused me >? to stumble onto another > liquid.? In searching I have >? discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter >? than gasoline, and > obviously safer for me and the >? environment.? I have no idea yet if it is an > option, I only > > stumbled onto it this morning.?? If anyone knows of a > bad >? reason to use > Olive Oil, please let me know.? Olive Oil is >? .703 g\cc and I can > put it into plastic containers that >? are .93 g\cc Hank > > >? ? ? On Friday, June > 23, >? 2017 9:28 AM, Alec > Smyth via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? ? > >?? Actually there are >? trawl floats rated to > 1800m. That should have you covered >? Hank! Check out #629 > below. >? http://trawlworks.com/floats.html > >? Best, > >? Alec >? On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 > at >? 1:21 PM, Brian Cox > via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? These guys have > 14" >? spherical > buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00? ? with >? a positive buoyancy of 39 > #? ? they are not syntactic. >? The syntactics start at 30" in dia >?? >? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ > > buoyancy.htm?? Brian >? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. >? org wrote: > >? From: james >? cottrell via > Personal_Submersibles ? org> >? To: >? Personal Submersibles > General Discussion ? org> >? Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic >? foam. >? Date: > Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 >? +0000 (UTC) > > >? Deep sea glass floats > are rated for 10,000 > > psi >? http://teledynebenthos.com/ > > product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- >? spheres > >? Greg > >? ? ? ? >? From: Alan via >? Personal_Submersibles > ? org> >?? To: Personal >? Submersibles General > Discussion ? org> >?? Sent: Monday, June > 12, >? 2017 6:18 PM >?? Subject: Re: >? [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic > foam. >? ? > >? Hank,if you >? are getting 3lb of > floatation per gallon then you need >? 184gallons of gas. 184 x > 3 = 552 ( near > > enough).Cheers Alan > > >? Sent from my iPad >? On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 > AM, hank pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: > >? Alan,I need 550 lbs > flotation? and one imp >? gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that > gives me 3 >? lbs > buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons >? of gas.Hank > > >? ? ? On Monday, June > 12, >? 2017 3:43 PM, Alan > via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > > >? Hank,are you sure > that's >? right!That > would give 1900kg of floatation ( >? nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being > .71 >? of the weight of > water. So every litreof gas >? gives you about 290 grams of > floatation. Metric > > system is much easier for calculating these >? things.Cheers Alan > >? Sent from my iPad >? On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 > PM, hank pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: > >? Alan,Those >? are nice, I can see other > uses for them.? If I use >? gasoline, I would need about? 1,750 imperial > gallons for > > Elementary.? ? I was mistaken about the? liquid > paraffin, >? gasoline is > better. > >? ? ? On Sunday, June > 11, >? 2017 11:36 PM, > Alan via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > >?? Maybe >? something like this > collapsable plastic fuel >? tank, inside a protective fibreglass housing, > or >? a grate > arrangement.? https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ > > atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan >? Sent from my iPad >? On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via >? Personal_Submersibles > ? org> wrote: > >? Alan,Yes I >? have, it is very simple > and effective.? There are of coarse >? some hazardous > logistical problems not to >? mention environmental concerns.? I would opt > for >? diesel fuel to > reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have >? plastic and gas it is > dangerous.? Last week I did a barge >? job replacing dock > piles.? When I walked up and down the >? plastic dock floats, > every time I touched the steel piles I >? got a spark.? Actually > Liquid paraffin is even better at >? .8g\ccHank > >? ? ? On > Sunday, June 11, >? 2017 > 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > > >? Hank,have you looked at > using >? gasoline?More > volume required for the same >? floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from > the >? holding tanks it > would cost you nothing, as >? youcould use it after the dive. If you > designed >? right you > could fill the tanksat your >? destination.Alan > >? Sent from > my iPad >? On 12/06/2017, > at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via >? Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: > >? Greg,that sounds good, >? I would love to find a > more cost effective foam.? I still >? want to build one more > sub that goes much deeper, but the >? foam cost is not > manageable.? I estimate I can build a >?? Titanic capable sub >? for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is >? foam.? ;-(Hank > >? ? ? On Sunday, June > 11, >? 2017 8:29 AM, hank > pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > >?? Greg,There has to be > good reason to make foam by >? other means than standard practices.?? Cost > would be the >? biggest > reason, and using wax will probably work, but is >? there a saving?? Using > wax means you have to use a >? deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of > reinforcement >? provided > by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost >? difference would be. > Maybe the cost is still much >? better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the > resin is >? not the > expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, >? to look for a replacement > for the spheres.? In Cliff's >? report it shows the resin triples the > sphere's > > performance.? That implies that the true strength comes >? from the resin.? Maybe a > sawdust resin or a styrofoam >? granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe > it is a >? simple as air > entrained resin?Fun to > > think about anyways.Hank > >? ? ? On > Sunday, June 11, >? 2017 > 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > >?? Hi Scott,Thanks >? for the offer, but I need > foam for 3,000 > > feet.Hank > >? ? ? On Saturday, June > 10, >? 2017 9:03 PM, > Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > > >? Hank, >? Hola from Costa Rica! >? Depends on if they are > glass or >? carbon fiber > spheres and what size they are. They are all >? pretty durable. We are > actually cutting up the foam on >? Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we >? want. >? I do have a >? ton of syntactic foam > that is cert to 400m that I'd sell >? you for super cheap. Like > all of it for $200 > > Thanks,Scott >? Waters > > >? Sent from my >? U.S. Cellular? > Smartphone >? -------- > Original message > > --------From: hank pronk via >? Personal_Submersibles ? org> Date: 6/10/17 > 12:38 PM? (GMT-06:00) > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? ? org> Subject: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic >? foam. >? I > have an idea, but not sure if it will work. >? My idea is to fill a > neutrally buoyant container with macro >? and micro spheres. > After the container is as full as >? possible, then fill with an environmentally > friendly oil. >? This > would be more buoyant than using a resin and less >? complicated and > cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the >? spheres stand up against > breaking from being in contact with >? the other spheres and the > container.?? Are these spheres >? delicate? > >? Hank______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >? ? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >? ? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > >? ? > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > ______________________________ >? _________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org > >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >? ? ? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >? ?? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >? ? _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 26 22:45:37 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 02:45:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Meet George In-Reply-To: <402727952.3202497.1498528796302@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1692248839.3155526.1498521309088.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1692248839.3155526.1498521309088@mail.yahoo.com> <1549306117.3127320.1498522140823@mail.yahoo.com> <1979983689.3208984.1498527398936@mail.yahoo.com> <402727952.3202497.1498528796302@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <511420033.3240541.1498531537348@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks, Hank From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 9:02 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Meet George Pete,The battery box in Gamma would be cost prohibitive in welding time. ?I can give you drawings of the CT I can even send you a copy of the original CT drawing.Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 7:37 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I love Gamma's battery box set up but I have no idea how to engineer it nor the CT . I'm a cut and paste guy with a set of K350 plans and rudimentary knowledge on how to use the online Psub tools but I'm learning. Gamma is such a beautiful design. I wish I had the knowledge to engineer it from the information that is available about it. As for the mbts nothing is set in steel and I appreciate the input. Getting input was my desire in posting the design. So,Psubbers have at it rip it apart. ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 7:12 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Meet George Pete,That stacked prop seemed to work and is pretty darn simple. ?I hate to say it but your shallow draft?tapered cone in the back is going to bite you in the back side. ?You might be heavy enough but I think your going to have to much air volume down low and she is going to be tippy. ?I would make an even cone like Gamma had. ?Putting your batteries inside down the middle will help. ?As for the ports, I think it a must to have 8, you can't imagine the difference. ?There is only a welding room issue if you poke the frame to far inside. ?Push them ?out a bit, as long as the engineer crowd okay's it. ?I can check my CT thickness, but I think it is 1\2 inch with 8 ports on 1 inch thick frames. ?I would copy Gamma's CT as it is super easy to build. ?The small hatch is great also and no need for a spring.Hank On Monday, June 26, 2017 5:55 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yeah the two front tanks and oblique cone are mbts.The tail is just sex appeal but it might help when towing.? I decided on the oblique cone to make it easier to launch in shallow water. The CT is a standard K350 design beefed up a bit. I would like more ports but remember reading on the list about issues? having access to welding. Wadda think more, smaller ports ? The top tanks are hp. I've since lowered them and gotten rid of 2. As you can see I've borrowed ideas from the list. You can't see it but the props are Hank's stacked/reversed design.What are your thoughts of that design, Hank? I've also stolen Alec's emergency buoy and jettisonable thruster designs. I like that design because I plan to have extra thu hulls and I can add or remove thrusters as needed or budget permits. I'm looking forward to reports on their performance. Since moving the hp I now have room to the have the horizontals stacked aft. I've added 4 extra thru hulls to CT just in case. I think I found a compromise to the weight/balance issues and gotten rid of the battery pods. The shell and heads are 42" od x .5. The hull frame rings and webs are 1.5" x .5 ". The frames are placed 24" c-c. I'm aiming for a depth of 700'. It's has been and will be years in design and will be years before it makes it to steel if ever. ? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 6:01 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Meet George ? Pete,I didn't notice the drawings you sent, glad Alan mentioned them. ?That looks real robust, I love the deck! ?I think you would like more ports in the CT, I didn't realize the difference until I got Gamma with 8 ports. ?It really makes a huge difference. ?I almost tried the ?twin in line thruster idea, but chickened out, thinking it might be a problem, mind you, you might have them raked a bit and it doesn't show in the picture. ? I assume the aft tilted down cone is a MBT and the the two front tanks the same. ?What are the aft top tanks? HP air? ? Nice design, it is real practical to construct. ?It might be nice to get those HP bottles down lower, ?for balance, every bit helps. ?Hank? ? ? On Sunday, June 25, 2017 1:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Nice CAD work Pete, I am not sure about your thruster placements. I like the idea of redundant horizontal thrusters but not sure about having them in line. Carl Stanley's Idabel has 4 horizontal thrusters, but has them in two sets side by side. Also the kort nozzles of the vertical thrusters seem to be in the way of the thrust from the horizontal thrusters. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/06/2017, at 2:52 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 6/24/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ement > Date: Saturday, June 24, 2017, 8:11 e idea > the > > Pete,A > lottery win would help ,lol.? I will not rotate the sphere, > I will launch it with me in it, in the correct orientation. >?? I will go old school with the batteries and use oil > filled lead acid, for simplicity and low cost.? Personally > if I were building a K350 variant, I would not? bother with > pods, I would have AGM internal batteries.? Again for cost, > simplicity and speed of construction, increase the hull > diameter to 42 inches while your at it.?? Emile has the > perfect set up, I would copy that.Hank > > >? ?? On Saturday, June 24, 2017 7:00 PM, Pete > Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > >? WOW ! > Are you going to rotate the sphere to have the port ( I > assume you mean View Port) where you want it ? > You > seem to have cracked quite a few nuts that challenged > Psubbers. > What > about > > Thru > hulls for control, power, life support, comm, etc. > Battery > banks ( I'm especially interested in this. I am working > on a design of a K350 variant and I don't the like > battery pods > > Thrusters > and compansation. > I > hope you win the lottery some day. > > > > >?? From: hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: > Saturday, June 24, 2017 6:38 PM >? Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. > > > Hi Pete,Elementary > 12,000? will have a 48 inch by? 3.25 in thick occupant > sphere 516-70 steel, and it will weigh 8,000 lbs.? The port > and hatch will be combined, and the hatch land will be a > bolt in place part.? I will machine the conical opening > with my own flange facing machine.? If I achieve the > accuracy with the land that? I have with Elementary, 3000 > that will be great, if not then I will have it re-machined > professionally.? The new sphere will go in place of the > sphere in Elementary 3000 and all the parts will be swapped > out.? That is the plan Hank > > > >? ? On Saturday, June 24, > 2017 2:22 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > >? Hank, What are your preliminary hull specs for > Elementary 12000? > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 6/23/17, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >? Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. >? To: "Personal Submersibles General > Discussion" >? Date: Friday, June 23, > 2017, 8:44 PM > >? Hank,yes the gas tanks > may >? be expensive. You > could possibly make >? a > series of boxes for the petrol. Make a box out >? ofmarine >? ply, seal it with epoxy, > drill a couple of holes in the >? bottom & glue ina flexible membrane >? across the inside bottom > of the box. Then seal a top >? on with a > > valve for filling. Just brain storming here!Alan > >? Sent >? from my iPad >? On >? 24/06/2017, at 1:12 PM, > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >? >? wrote: > >? Alan,Those >? look amazing and > expensive.? I am not saying it is not >? doable, I am just > very nervous due to lack of >? knowledge.? I am sure with proper engineering > and safety >? grounding > it can be safe.? I would go with CNG type 4 tanks >? before I did gasoline. >? I can buy one brand new tank that >? will provide all the > buoyancy I need for 2,500-3,000? or I >? can buy a used tank that > is current until 2030 for 1,100 >? dollars plus shipping.? Also the CNG tank only > adds 105 lbs >? plus > compressed air weight to the? dry weight, making the >? sub easy to lift onto the > deck of my proposed landing >? craft.Hank > > > >? ? ? On Friday, June > 23, >? 2017 6:32 PM, Alan > James via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? ? > >?? Hank,I had >? another quick Google on > collapsible petrol > > containers.There >? is a > huge variety, with manufacturers offering tailor >? made products.Here >? is a news item about them > using them on the jetpack. They >? have a collapsible >? fuel tank strapped to their > back.http://www.atlinc.com/newsreleases.htmlAlan > > > > >? ? ? >? ? From: hank pronk > via > > Personal_Submersibles >?? To: Personal >? Submersibles General > Discussion > >?? Sent: Saturday, June >? 24, 2017 11:16 AM >?? Subject: Re: >? [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic > foam. >? ? > >? Alan,I am >? still considering that > idea but Sean said NO ;-(?? It is >? cheap and I would have > lots of exta buoyancy.? This is good >? for Elementary 3,000 but > not Elementary 12,000.? I want to >? explore all ideas,? and > will end up where I started with >? spheres in epoxy ;-)Hank > > >? ? ? On Friday, June 23, > 2017 5:01 PM, >? Alan via > Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? ? > >?? Hank,what happened to > your >? idea of using > composite tanks pressurised with >? air?As long > > as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a >? drop weight thatcould > compensate for >? one > failing, that would be ok wouldn't it?If you were > filling to >? 3000psi, > they wouldn't see external pressure till >? 6000ft.You >? could always test the > idea at Nuytco.Alan > > >? Sent from my iPad >? On >? 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, > hank pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: > >? LOL,I >? checked on > the compressibility and it will compress >? .5 percent, per 1,000 psi >? same as hydraulic oil.?? I have >? weighed two types of > Olive oil today and the specific >? gravity is actually .86g\cc? so it is to > heavy.? I >? can't > seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc >? ? if you buy in bulk it > is 5 dollars per kg? so >? far.I am > > not even sure I can drive down the road with that much > gas, >? mind you it would > be hidden behind panels on the sub.? Then >? there is the expansion > while it sits in the hot weather. >?? If the tree huggers heard about it they would > crap in >? their pants > and chase me down, luckily my truck can out run >? a VW van lol.Hank > > >? ? ? On Friday, June > 23, >? 2017 3:53 PM, Alan > via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? ? > >?? Hank,is that extra > virgin or >? cold > pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder >? pressure.Olive oil would > be an >? expensive way to > go. Whereas petrol costsnothing if you re-use >? it. Not >? sure why you fear > gasoline; they let women pump it in to >? their cars >? at gas stations!Cheers > Alan >? Sent >? from my iPad >? On >? 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >? >? wrote: > >? Alec,Thank >? you, I should have bought > those instead of the 11 inch, >? grrrr.? I could go with those floats, but I do > hope to >? build the next > generation? Elementary sub.? I want to >? figure out the whole foam > thing and possibly carry it over >? to the next sub.? Alan has really intrigued me > with using >? gasoline, I > am terrified of that idea but it has caused me >? to stumble onto another > liquid.? In searching I have >? discovered that Olive Oil is even lighter >? than gasoline, and > obviously safer for me and the >? environment.? I have no idea yet if it is an > option, I only > > stumbled onto it this morning.?? If anyone knows of a > bad >? reason to use > Olive Oil, please let me know.? Olive Oil is >? .703 g\cc and I can > put it into plastic containers that >? are .93 g\cc Hank > > >? ? ? On Friday, June > 23, >? 2017 9:28 AM, Alec > Smyth via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? ? > >?? Actually there are >? trawl floats rated to > 1800m. That should have you covered >? Hank! Check out #629 > below. >? http://trawlworks.com/floats.html > >? Best, > >? Alec >? On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 > at >? 1:21 PM, Brian Cox > via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: >? These guys have > 14" >? spherical > buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00? ? with >? a positive buoyancy of 39 > #? ? they are not syntactic. >? The syntactics start at 30" in dia >?? >? http://www.mooringsystems.com/ > > buoyancy.htm?? Brian >? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. >? org wrote: > >? From: james >? cottrell via > Personal_Submersibles ? org> >? To: >? Personal Submersibles > General Discussion ? org> >? Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic >? foam. >? Date: > Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 >? +0000 (UTC) > > >? Deep sea glass floats > are rated for 10,000 > > psi >? http://teledynebenthos.com/ > > product/flotation_instrument_ housings/flotation-glass- >? spheres > >? Greg > >? ? ? ? >? From: Alan via >? Personal_Submersibles > ? org> >?? To: Personal >? Submersibles General > Discussion ? org> >?? Sent: Monday, June > 12, >? 2017 6:18 PM >?? Subject: Re: >? [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic > foam. >? ? > >? Hank,if you >? are getting 3lb of > floatation per gallon then you need >? 184gallons of gas. 184 x > 3 = 552 ( near > > enough).Cheers Alan > > >? Sent from my iPad >? On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 > AM, hank pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: > >? Alan,I need 550 lbs > flotation? and one imp >? gallon of water is 10 lbs and gas is 7 lbs that > gives me 3 >? lbs > buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need 1650 gallons >? of gas.Hank > > >? ? ? On Monday, June > 12, >? 2017 3:43 PM, Alan > via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > > >? Hank,are you sure > that's >? right!That > would give 1900kg of floatation ( >? nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being > .71 >? of the weight of > water. So every litreof gas >? gives you about 290 grams of > floatation. Metric > > system is much easier for calculating these >? things.Cheers Alan > >? Sent from my iPad >? On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 > PM, hank pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: > >? Alan,Those >? are nice, I can see other > uses for them.? If I use >? gasoline, I would need about? 1,750 imperial > gallons for > > Elementary.? ? I was mistaken about the? liquid > paraffin, >? gasoline is > better. > >? ? ? On Sunday, June > 11, >? 2017 11:36 PM, > Alan via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > >?? Maybe >? something like this > collapsable plastic fuel >? tank, inside a protective fibreglass housing, > or >? a grate > arrangement.? https://www.bdoutdoors.com/ > > atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan >? Sent from my iPad >? On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via >? Personal_Submersibles > ? org> wrote: > >? Alan,Yes I >? have, it is very simple > and effective.? There are of coarse >? some hazardous > logistical problems not to >? mention environmental concerns.? I would opt > for >? diesel fuel to > reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have >? plastic and gas it is > dangerous.? Last week I did a barge >? job replacing dock > piles.? When I walked up and down the >? plastic dock floats, > every time I touched the steel piles I >? got a spark.? Actually > Liquid paraffin is even better at >? .8g\ccHank > >? ? ? On > Sunday, June 11, >? 2017 > 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > > >? Hank,have you looked at > using >? gasoline?More > volume required for the same >? floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from > the >? holding tanks it > would cost you nothing, as >? youcould use it after the dive. If you > designed >? right you > could fill the tanksat your >? destination.Alan > >? Sent from > my iPad >? On 12/06/2017, > at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via >? Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: > >? Greg,that sounds good, >? I would love to find a > more cost effective foam.? I still >? want to build one more > sub that goes much deeper, but the >? foam cost is not > manageable.? I estimate I can build a >?? Titanic capable sub >? for 100,000 and 80,000 of that is >? foam.? ;-(Hank > >? ? ? On Sunday, June > 11, >? 2017 8:29 AM, hank > pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > >?? Greg,There has to be > good reason to make foam by >? other means than standard practices.?? Cost > would be the >? biggest > reason, and using wax will probably work, but is >? there a saving?? Using > wax means you have to use a >? deeper rated sphere to offset the loss of > reinforcement >? provided > by the resin.? I have no idea what the cost >? difference would be. > Maybe the cost is still much >? better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the > resin is >? not the > expensive part.? Perhaps the direction should be, >? to look for a replacement > for the spheres.? In Cliff's >? report it shows the resin triples the > sphere's > > performance.? That implies that the true strength comes >? from the resin.? Maybe a > sawdust resin or a styrofoam >? granule resin is worth looking at also.? Maybe > it is a >? simple as air > entrained resin?Fun to > > think about anyways.Hank > >? ? ? On > Sunday, June 11, >? 2017 > 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > >?? Hi Scott,Thanks >? for the offer, but I need > foam for 3,000 > > feet.Hank > >? ? ? On Saturday, June > 10, >? 2017 9:03 PM, > Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles ? org> wrote: >? ? > > >? Hank, >? Hola from Costa Rica! >? Depends on if they are > glass or >? carbon fiber > spheres and what size they are. They are all >? pretty durable. We are > actually cutting up the foam on >? Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we >? want. >? I do have a >? ton of syntactic foam > that is cert to 400m that I'd sell >? you for super cheap. Like > all of it for $200 > > Thanks,Scott >? Waters > > >? Sent from my >? U.S. Cellular? > Smartphone >? -------- > Original message > > --------From: hank pronk via >? Personal_Submersibles ? org> Date: 6/10/17 > 12:38 PM? (GMT-06:00) > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >? ? org> Subject: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic >? foam. >? I > have an idea, but not sure if it will work. >? My idea is to fill a > neutrally buoyant container with macro >? and micro spheres. > After the container is as full as >? possible, then fill with an environmentally > friendly oil. >? This > would be more buoyant than using a resin and less >? complicated and > cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the >? spheres stand up against > breaking from being in contact with >? the other spheres and the > container.?? Are these spheres >? delicate? > >? Hank______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >? ? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >? ? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles >? mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > >? ? > ______________________________ >? _________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > ______________________________ >? _________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >? org > >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >? listinfo.cgi/personal_ > submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >? ? ? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >? ?? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >?? >? ? > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing >? list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles > mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >? ? _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 27 21:11:57 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 01:11:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool References: <1519327750.89615.1498612317445.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1519327750.89615.1498612317445@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,Renovations on my new house are going so well that I can start renovating my new old shop. ?I built it 20 years ago so it needs a bit of help. ?I am replacing the wood centre beam with a steel I beam so I can lift and roll subs with a beam trolly. ?And the biggy is, the test pool at the end of the steel beam. ?I am installing an in floor pool. ?I am tired of driving for 1.5 hr to do a 5 minute test then drive home for 1.5 hr. ?I happen to be in the concrete cutting business also , so I can cut out the floor easy as pie. ?I will make the pool walls with styrofoam blocks filled with concrete, (ICF) ?so the sub will bump into soft walls. ?So when it is -20C outside I can go for a little sub dive. ??Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 27 21:29:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 21:29:50 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool In-Reply-To: <1519327750.89615.1498612317445@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1519327750.89615.1498612317445.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1519327750.89615.1498612317445@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sounds like a builder's dream Hank. Going to be interested in pictures on that one when it's done. What depth are you shooting for? ~ Doug S. On 6/27/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All,Renovations on my new house are going so well that I can start > renovating my new old shop. I built it 20 years ago so it needs a bit of > help. I am replacing the wood centre beam with a steel I beam so I can lift > and roll subs with a beam trolly. And the biggy is, the test pool at the > end of the steel beam. I am installing an in floor pool. I am tired of > driving for 1.5 hr to do a 5 minute test then drive home for 1.5 hr. I > happen to be in the concrete cutting business also , so I can cut out the > floor easy as pie. I will make the pool walls with styrofoam blocks filled > with concrete, (ICF) so the sub will bump into soft walls. So when it is > -20C outside I can go for a little sub dive. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 27 21:40:03 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 01:40:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool References: <868540799.69899.1498614003815.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <868540799.69899.1498614003815@mail.yahoo.com> I propose Psubs.org new motto "Be Like Hank ! ". -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 6/27/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Tuesday, June 27, 2017, 8:11 PM Hi All,Renovations on my new house are going so well that I can start renovating my new old shop. ?I built it 20 years ago so it needs a bit of help. ?I am replacing the wood centre beam with a steel I beam so I can lift and roll subs with a beam trolly. ?And the biggy is, the test pool at the end of the steel beam. ?I am installing an in floor pool. ?I am tired of driving for 1.5 hr to do a 5 minute test then drive home for 1.5 hr. ?I happen to be in the concrete cutting business also , so I can cut out the floor easy as pie. ?I will make the pool walls with styrofoam blocks filled with concrete, (ICF) ?so the sub will bump into soft walls. ?So when it is -20C outside I can go for a little sub dive. ??Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 27 22:07:24 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 02:07:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool In-Reply-To: References: <1519327750.89615.1498612317445.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1519327750.89615.1498612317445@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <331658088.122014.1498615644513@mail.yahoo.com> Douglas,I will make it 6 feet deep, that will be plenty and if I have to I can extend it with a curb above the floor. ?Your right is should be a dream.Hank On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 7:30 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sounds like a builder's dream Hank. Going to be interested in pictures on that one when it's done. What depth are you shooting for? ~ Doug S. On 6/27/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All,Renovations on my new house are going so well that I can start > renovating my new old shop.? I built it 20 years ago so it needs a bit of > help.? I am replacing the wood centre beam with a steel I beam so I can lift > and roll subs with a beam trolly.? And the biggy is, the test pool at the > end of the steel beam.? I am installing an in floor pool.? I am tired of > driving for 1.5 hr to do a 5 minute test then drive home for 1.5 hr.? I > happen to be in the concrete cutting business also , so I can cut out the > floor easy as pie.? I will make the pool walls with styrofoam blocks filled > with concrete, (ICF)? so the sub will bump into soft walls.? So when it is > -20C outside I can go for a little sub dive.? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 27 22:16:34 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 12:16:34 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool In-Reply-To: <331658088.122014.1498615644513@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1519327750.89615.1498612317445.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1519327750.89615.1498612317445@mail.yahoo.com> <331658088.122014.1498615644513@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, That sounds fantastic!! I was wondering... - Is your roof beam rated for the sort of weight you're going to hang off it? - Will your pool freeze??? I guess the Styrofoam blocks will insulate it :) I talked to some people working at a hot dip galvanising place, and one of their biggest nightmares was the thought that the pool of molten zinc might freeze. Cheers, Steve On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:07 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Douglas, > I will make it 6 feet deep, that will be plenty and if I have to I can > extend it with a curb above the floor. Your right is should be a dream. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 7:30 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Sounds like a builder's dream Hank. Going to be interested in pictures > on that one when it's done. What depth are you shooting for? ~ Doug S. > > On 6/27/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Hi All,Renovations on my new house are going so well that I can start > > renovating my new old shop. I built it 20 years ago so it needs a bit of > > help. I am replacing the wood centre beam with a steel I beam so I can > lift > > and roll subs with a beam trolly. And the biggy is, the test pool at the > > end of the steel beam. I am installing an in floor pool. I am tired of > > driving for 1.5 hr to do a 5 minute test then drive home for 1.5 hr. I > > happen to be in the concrete cutting business also , so I can cut out the > > floor easy as pie. I will make the pool walls with styrofoam blocks > filled > > with concrete, (ICF) so the sub will bump into soft walls. So when it > is > > -20C outside I can go for a little sub dive. Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 27 22:53:36 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 19:53:36 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool In-Reply-To: Q2SUdc8HnBmMyQ2SWdfFsE References: <1519327750.89615.1498612317445.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1519327750.89615.1498612317445@mail.yahoo.com> Q2SUdc8HnBmMyQ2SWdfFsE Message-ID: <000001d2efb9$be40ed40$3ac2c7c0$@telus.net> Brilliant, Hank. You are probably familiar with Nuytco's transportable barge. Are you planning something similar with floor boards over your pool so that you still have use of the floor space? Six feet deep by what length and width? Diving Dynamics in Kelowna have a pool 14 feet by 14 feet by 14 feet deep, which is very nice. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 7:07 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool Douglas, I will make it 6 feet deep, that will be plenty and if I have to I can extend it with a curb above the floor. Your right is should be a dream. Hank On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 7:30 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Sounds like a builder's dream Hank. Going to be interested in pictures on that one when it's done. What depth are you shooting for? ~ Doug S. On 6/27/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Hi All,Renovations on my new house are going so well that I can start > renovating my new old shop. I built it 20 years ago so it needs a bit of > help. I am replacing the wood centre beam with a steel I beam so I can lift > and roll subs with a beam trolly. And the biggy is, the test pool at the > end of the steel beam. I am installing an in floor pool. I am tired of > driving for 1.5 hr to do a 5 minute test then drive home for 1.5 hr. I > happen to be in the concrete cutting business also , so I can cut out the > floor easy as pie. I will make the pool walls with styrofoam blocks filled > with concrete, (ICF) so the sub will bump into soft walls. So when it is > -20C outside I can go for a little sub dive. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 27 23:13:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 20:13:43 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool Message-ID: <20170627201343.C6AF34BD@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 28 00:42:37 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 23:42:37 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool In-Reply-To: <868540799.69899.1498614003815@mail.yahoo.com> References: <868540799.69899.1498614003815.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <868540799.69899.1498614003815@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Here! Here! Hank ( and maybe Phil too) > On Jun 27, 2017, at 8:40 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I propose Psubs.org new motto "Be Like Hank ! ". > -------------------------------------------- > On Tue, 6/27/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Date: Tuesday, June 27, 2017, 8:11 PM > > Hi > All,Renovations > on my new house are going so well that I can start > renovating my new old shop. I built it 20 years ago so > it needs a bit of help. I am replacing the wood centre > beam with a steel I beam so I can lift and roll subs with a > beam trolly. And the biggy is, the test pool at the > end of the steel beam. I am installing an in floor > pool. I am tired of driving for 1.5 hr to do a 5 > minute test then drive home for 1.5 hr. I happen to be > in the concrete cutting business also , so I can cut out the > floor easy as pie. I will make the pool walls with > styrofoam blocks filled with concrete, (ICF) so the > sub will bump into soft walls. So when it is -20C > outside I can go for a little sub dive. Hank_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 28 05:02:31 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 10:02:31 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool In-Reply-To: References: <868540799.69899.1498614003815.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <868540799.69899.1498614003815@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Great! Perfect sub workshop. Interested to see the size of the steel beam. Might do one myself. James On 28 June 2017 at 05:42, Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Here! Here! > Hank ( and maybe Phil too) > >> On Jun 27, 2017, at 8:40 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> I propose Psubs.org new motto "Be Like Hank ! ". >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Tue, 6/27/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> Date: Tuesday, June 27, 2017, 8:11 PM >> >> Hi >> All,Renovations >> on my new house are going so well that I can start >> renovating my new old shop. I built it 20 years ago so >> it needs a bit of help. I am replacing the wood centre >> beam with a steel I beam so I can lift and roll subs with a >> beam trolly. And the biggy is, the test pool at the >> end of the steel beam. I am installing an in floor >> pool. I am tired of driving for 1.5 hr to do a 5 >> minute test then drive home for 1.5 hr. I happen to be >> in the concrete cutting business also , so I can cut out the >> floor easy as pie. I will make the pool walls with >> styrofoam blocks filled with concrete, (ICF) so the >> sub will bump into soft walls. So when it is -20C >> outside I can go for a little sub dive. Hank_______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 28 05:34:08 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 21:34:08 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool In-Reply-To: <1519327750.89615.1498612317445@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1519327750.89615.1498612317445.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1519327750.89615.1498612317445@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, when you said you weren't doing anything submarine for a year I had my doubts. Below is an image that may help you in your new indoor submarine pool design. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 28/06/2017, at 1:11 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > Renovations on my new house are going so well that I can start renovating my new old shop. I built it 20 years ago so it needs a bit of help. I am replacing the wood centre beam with a steel I beam so I can lift and roll subs with a beam trolly. And the biggy is, the test pool at the end of the steel beam. I am installing an in floor pool. I am tired of driving for 1.5 hr to do a 5 minute test then drive home for 1.5 hr. I happen to be in the concrete cutting business also , so I can cut out the floor easy as pie. I will make the pool walls with styrofoam blocks filled with concrete, (ICF) so the sub will bump into soft walls. So when it is -20C outside I can go for a little sub dive. > > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 83434 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 28 07:45:12 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 11:45:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool In-Reply-To: References: <1519327750.89615.1498612317445.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1519327750.89615.1498612317445@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <410908025.333741.1498650313112@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks' Guys,The pool will be modest, to save cost. ?The pool will be 10 feet long 6 feet wide and 6 feet deep. ?The steel I beam I have is 16 inches tall and 8 inches wide with a 3\8 web and 1\2 inch top and bottom. ?I have no idea if it is rated, but I have a good friend that does all my engineering for work stuff. ?I can get him to do the math, no?problem. ?I can easily throw a tellapost under to cut down the span when I lift to much. ? I have used this beam many times over the years to support masonry chimneys when we lift houses and being such a tall beam it is amazingly strong. ??There is little risk of freezing because the shop will be heated. ?I could always drain it when I go away.I may have to rethink the design after Alan provided a much nicer design! ;-) ?Hank On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:34 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,?when you said you weren't doing anything submarine for a yearI had my doubts. Below is an image that may help you in yournew indoor submarine pool design.Alan? Sent from my iPad On 28/06/2017, at 1:11 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Renovations on my new house are going so well that I can start renovating my new old shop. ?I built it 20 years ago so it needs a bit of help. ?I am replacing the wood centre beam with a steel I beam so I can lift and roll subs with a beam trolly. ?And the biggy is, the test pool at the end of the steel beam. ?I am installing an in floor pool. ?I am tired of driving for 1.5 hr to do a 5 minute test then drive home for 1.5 hr. ?I happen to be in the concrete cutting business also , so I can cut out the floor easy as pie. ?I will make the pool walls with styrofoam blocks filled with concrete, (ICF) ?so the sub will bump into soft walls. ?So when it is -20C outside I can go for a little sub dive. ??Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 83434 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 28 07:50:36 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 11:50:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool In-Reply-To: <000001d2efb9$be40ed40$3ac2c7c0$@telus.net> References: <1519327750.89615.1498612317445.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1519327750.89615.1498612317445@mail.yahoo.com> <000001d2efb9$be40ed40$3ac2c7c0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <158530761.371376.1498650636522@mail.yahoo.com> Tim,Yes, I was?thinking about having a one or two piece lid that I can lift off with trolly hoist. ?I am thinking about a cheap way to do it. ?A big steel plate recessed into the floor would be best, but expensive. ?Hank On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 8:53 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv2877059648 #yiv2877059648 -- _filtered #yiv2877059648 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2877059648 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2877059648 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv2877059648 #yiv2877059648 p.yiv2877059648MsoNormal, #yiv2877059648 li.yiv2877059648MsoNormal, #yiv2877059648 div.yiv2877059648MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv2877059648 a:link, #yiv2877059648 span.yiv2877059648MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2877059648 a:visited, #yiv2877059648 span.yiv2877059648MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2877059648 span.yiv2877059648EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv2877059648 .yiv2877059648MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv2877059648 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv2877059648 div.yiv2877059648WordSection1 {}#yiv2877059648 Brilliant, Hank.You are probably familiar with Nuytco's transportable barge.? Are you planning something similar with floor boards over your pool so that you still have use of the floor space?? Six feet deep by what length and width? Diving Dynamics in Kelowna have a pool 14 feet by 14 feet by 14 feet deep, which is very nice.Tim ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 7:07 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool ?Douglas,I will make it 6 feet deep, that will be plenty and if I have to I can extend it with a curb above the floor. ?Your right is should be a dream.Hank ?On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 7:30 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Sounds like a builder's dream Hank. Going to be interested in pictures on that one when it's done. What depth are you shooting for? ~ Doug S. On 6/27/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All,Renovations on my new house are going so well that I can start > renovating my new old shop.? I built it 20 years ago so it needs a bit of > help.? I am replacing the wood centre beam with a steel I beam so I can lift > and roll subs with a beam trolly.? And the biggy is, the test pool at the > end of the steel beam.? I am installing an in floor pool.? I am tired of > driving for 1.5 hr to do a 5 minute test then drive home for 1.5 hr.? I > happen to be in the concrete cutting business also , so I can cut out the > floor easy as pie.? I will make the pool walls with styrofoam blocks filled > with concrete, (ICF)? so the sub will bump into soft walls.? So when it is > -20C outside I can go for a little sub dive.? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 28 10:49:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 14:49:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool In-Reply-To: <158530761.371376.1498650636522@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1519327750.89615.1498612317445.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1519327750.89615.1498612317445@mail.yahoo.com> <000001d2efb9$be40ed40$3ac2c7c0$@telus.net> <158530761.371376.1498650636522@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1175400687.508056.1498661383538@mail.yahoo.com> What about grates that you can cover mats or moving blankets ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 6:57 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool Tim,Yes, I was?thinking about having a one or two piece lid that I can lift off with trolly hoist. ?I am thinking about a cheap way to do it. ?A big steel plate recessed into the floor would be best, but expensive. ?Hank On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 8:53 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv6780237925 -- filtered {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}#yiv6780237925 filtered {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}#yiv6780237925 filtered {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv6780237925 p.yiv6780237925MsoNormal, #yiv6780237925 li.yiv6780237925MsoNormal, #yiv6780237925 div.yiv6780237925MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv6780237925 a:link, #yiv6780237925 span.yiv6780237925MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6780237925 a:visited, #yiv6780237925 span.yiv6780237925MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6780237925 span.yiv6780237925EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv6780237925 .yiv6780237925MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv6780237925 filtered {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv6780237925 div.yiv6780237925WordSection1 {}#yiv6780237925 Brilliant, Hank.You are probably familiar with Nuytco's transportable barge.? Are you planning something similar with floor boards over your pool so that you still have use of the floor space?? Six feet deep by what length and width? Diving Dynamics in Kelowna have a pool 14 feet by 14 feet by 14 feet deep, which is very nice.Tim ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 7:07 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool ?Douglas,I will make it 6 feet deep, that will be plenty and if I have to I can extend it with a curb above the floor. ?Your right is should be a dream.Hank ?On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 7:30 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Sounds like a builder's dream Hank. Going to be interested in pictures on that one when it's done. What depth are you shooting for? ~ Doug S. On 6/27/17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All,Renovations on my new house are going so well that I can start > renovating my new old shop.? I built it 20 years ago so it needs a bit of > help.? I am replacing the wood centre beam with a steel I beam so I can lift > and roll subs with a beam trolly.? And the biggy is, the test pool at the > end of the steel beam.? I am installing an in floor pool.? I am tired of > driving for 1.5 hr to do a 5 minute test then drive home for 1.5 hr.? I > happen to be in the concrete cutting business also , so I can cut out the > floor easy as pie.? I will make the pool walls with styrofoam blocks filled > with concrete, (ICF)? so the sub will bump into soft walls.? So when it is > -20C outside I can go for a little sub dive.? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 28 17:08:38 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 09:08:38 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool In-Reply-To: <410908025.333741.1498650313112@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1519327750.89615.1498612317445.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1519327750.89615.1498612317445@mail.yahoo.com> <410908025.333741.1498650313112@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0eba01d2f052$bccf1c40$366d54c0$@gmail.com> HI Hank, Have you looked at a container for a pool. Cut open the top and you have 8ft x 8ft x either 20 ft or 10 ft but when empty it is moveable!! The only thing is that it may need a box section welded along the side in the middle but it is a walking platform ? way up which is useful. The other is that you can put a window in the side. I saw a similar beast in a Sub business in Vancouver. Just a thought. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 28 June 2017 11:45 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool Thanks' Guys, The pool will be modest, to save cost. The pool will be 10 feet long 6 feet wide and 6 feet deep. The steel I beam I have is 16 inches tall and 8 inches wide with a 3\8 web and 1\2 inch top and bottom. I have no idea if it is rated, but I have a good friend that does all my engineering for work stuff. I can get him to do the math, no problem. I can easily throw a tellapost under to cut down the span when I lift to much. I have used this beam many times over the years to support masonry chimneys when we lift houses and being such a tall beam it is amazingly strong. There is little risk of freezing because the shop will be heated. I could always drain it when I go away. I may have to rethink the design after Alan provided a much nicer design! ;-) Hank On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:34 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, when you said you weren't doing anything submarine for a year I had my doubts. Below is an image that may help you in your new indoor submarine pool design. Alan image1.jpeg Sent from my iPad On 28/06/2017, at 1:11 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, Renovations on my new house are going so well that I can start renovating my new old shop. I built it 20 years ago so it needs a bit of help. I am replacing the wood centre beam with a steel I beam so I can lift and roll subs with a beam trolly. And the biggy is, the test pool at the end of the steel beam. I am installing an in floor pool. I am tired of driving for 1.5 hr to do a 5 minute test then drive home for 1.5 hr. I happen to be in the concrete cutting business also , so I can cut out the floor easy as pie. I will make the pool walls with styrofoam blocks filled with concrete, (ICF) so the sub will bump into soft walls. So when it is -20C outside I can go for a little sub dive. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 83434 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 28 17:20:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 21:20:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool In-Reply-To: <0eba01d2f052$bccf1c40$366d54c0$@gmail.com> References: <1519327750.89615.1498612317445.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1519327750.89615.1498612317445@mail.yahoo.com> <410908025.333741.1498650313112@mail.yahoo.com> <0eba01d2f052$bccf1c40$366d54c0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2084860184.845553.1498684850783@mail.yahoo.com> Hugh,I was actually looking for a 20 foot can and found them to be too expensive. ?Here we pay 3,000 dollars for a can without delivery. ?I can make my pool for 1,500 dollars with concrete. ?The other thing is, the shop height is not sufficient to lift the sub over the side of the can. ?Keeping it outside would be no fun in the winter. ?I think in the floor is going to be real convenient and quick to put in and out. ?If I lived in NZ, I would go with a sea can and crane.Hank On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:09 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv3717752701 #yiv3717752701 -- _filtered #yiv3717752701 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3717752701 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3717752701 {}#yiv3717752701 #yiv3717752701 p.yiv3717752701MsoNormal, #yiv3717752701 li.yiv3717752701MsoNormal, #yiv3717752701 div.yiv3717752701MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv3717752701 a:link, #yiv3717752701 span.yiv3717752701MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3717752701 a:visited, #yiv3717752701 span.yiv3717752701MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3717752701 span.yiv3717752701EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv3717752701 .yiv3717752701MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv3717752701 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv3717752701 div.yiv3717752701WordSection1 {}#yiv3717752701 HI Hank, ?Have you looked at a container for a pool.? Cut open the top and you have 8ft x 8ft x either 20 ft or 10 ft but when empty it is moveable!! The only thing is that it may need a box section? welded along the side in the middle but it is a walking platform ? way up which is useful.? The other is that you can put a window in the side. ?I saw a similar beast in a Sub business in Vancouver.? Just a thought.? Hugh ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 28 June 2017 11:45 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool ?Thanks' Guys,The pool will be modest, to save cost. ?The pool will be 10 feet long 6 feet wide and 6 feet deep. ?The steel I beam I have is 16 inches tall and 8 inches wide with a 3\8 web and 1\2 inch top and bottom. ?I have no idea if it is rated, but I have a good friend that does all my engineering for work stuff. ?I can get him to do the math, no?problem. ?I can easily throw a tellapost under to cut down the span when I lift to much. ? I have used this beam many times over the years to support masonry chimneys when we lift houses and being such a tall beam it is amazingly strong. ??There is little risk of freezing because the shop will be heated. ?I could always drain it when I go away.I may have to rethink the design after Alan provided a much nicer design! ;-) ?Hank ?On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:34 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Hank,?when you said you weren't doing anything submarine for a yearI had my doubts. Below is an image that may help you in yournew indoor submarine pool design.Alan? Sent from my iPad On 28/06/2017, at 1:11 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Renovations on my new house are going so well that I can start renovating my new old shop. ?I built it 20 years ago so it needs a bit of help. ?I am replacing the wood centre beam with a steel I beam so I can lift and roll subs with a beam trolly. ?And the biggy is, the test pool at the end of the steel beam. ?I am installing an in floor pool. ?I am tired of driving for 1.5 hr to do a 5 minute test then drive home for 1.5 hr. ?I happen to be in the concrete cutting business also , so I can cut out the floor easy as pie. ?I will make the pool walls with styrofoam blocks filled with concrete, (ICF) ?so the sub will bump into soft walls. ?So when it is -20C outside I can go for a little sub dive. ??Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 83434 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 29 09:25:39 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 09:25:39 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool In-Reply-To: <2084860184.845553.1498684850783@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15cf40750f7-48a6-5109@webprd-a37.mail.aol.com> Hank, Any plan to treat the water or Styrofoam sides to prevent grunge? Circulation pump? Rent it out for hot tub parties? Jim ? In a message dated 6/28/2017 4:25:09 PM Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: ? Hugh, I was actually looking for a 20 foot can and found them to be too expensive. ?Here we pay 3,000 dollars for a can without delivery. ?I can make my pool for 1,500 dollars with concrete. ?The other thing is, the shop height is not sufficient to lift the sub over the side of the can. ?Keeping it outside would be no fun in the winter. ?I think in the floor is going to be real convenient and quick to put in and out. ?If I lived in NZ, I would go with a sea can and crane. Hank ? On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:09 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: HI Hank, Have you looked at a container for a pool.? Cut open the top and you have 8ft x 8ft x either 20 ft or 10 ft but when empty it is moveable!! The only thing is that it may need a box section? welded along the side in the middle but it is a walking platform ? way up which is useful.? The other is that you can put a window in the side. I saw a similar beast in a Sub business in Vancouver.? Just a thought.? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 28 June 2017 11:45 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool ? Thanks' Guys, The pool will be modest, to save cost. ?The pool will be 10 feet long 6 feet wide and 6 feet deep. ?The steel I beam I have is 16 inches tall and 8 inches wide with a 3\8 web and 1\2 inch top and bottom. ?I have no idea if it is rated, but I have a good friend that does all my engineering for work stuff. ?I can get him to do the math, no?problem. ?I can easily throw a tellapost under to cut down the span when I lift to much. ? I have used this beam many times over the years to support masonry chimneys when we lift houses and being such a tall beam it is amazingly strong. ? There is little risk of freezing because the shop will be heated. ?I could always drain it when I go away. I may have to rethink the design after Alan provided a much nicer design! ;-) Hank On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:34 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Hank, when you said you weren't doing anything submarine for a year I had my doubts. Below is an image that may help you in your new indoor submarine pool design. Alan image1.jpeg? Sent from my iPad On 28/06/2017, at 1:11 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, Renovations on my new house are going so well that I can start renovating my new old shop. ?I built it 20 years ago so it needs a bit of help. ?I am replacing the wood centre beam with a steel I beam so I can lift and roll subs with a beam trolly. ?And the biggy is, the test pool at the end of the steel beam. ?I am installing an in floor pool. ?I am tired of driving for 1.5 hr to do a 5 minute test then drive home for 1.5 hr. ?I happen to be in the concrete cutting business also , so I can cut out the floor easy as pie. ?I will make the pool walls with styrofoam blocks filled with concrete, (ICF) ?so the sub will bump into soft walls. ?So when it is -20C outside I can go for a little sub dive. ? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 83434 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 29 17:30:05 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 21:30:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool In-Reply-To: <15cf40750f7-48a6-5109@webprd-a37.mail.aol.com> References: <2084860184.845553.1498684850783@mail.yahoo.com> <15cf40750f7-48a6-5109@webprd-a37.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <1285760585.1728679.1498771805304@mail.yahoo.com> Pete,I had not thought about scum, not sure if it will form from municipal water source? ?Hank On Thursday, June 29, 2017 7:26 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,Any plan to treat the water or Styrofoam sides to prevent grunge? Circulation pump? Rent it out for hot tub parties?Jim In a message dated 6/28/2017 4:25:09 PM Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Hugh,I was actually looking for a 20 foot can and found them to be too expensive. ?Here we pay 3,000 dollars for a can without delivery. ?I can make my pool for 1,500 dollars with concrete. ?The other thing is, the shop height is not sufficient to lift the sub over the side of the can. ?Keeping it outside would be no fun in the winter. ?I think in the floor is going to be real convenient and quick to put in and out. ?If I lived in NZ, I would go with a sea can and crane.Hank On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:09 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: HI Hank, Have you looked at a container for a pool.? Cut open the top and you have 8ft x 8ft x either 20 ft or 10 ft but when empty it is moveable!! The only thing is that it may need a box section? welded along the side in the middle but it is a walking platform ? way up which is useful.? The other is that you can put a window in the side. I saw a similar beast in a Sub business in Vancouver.? Just a thought.? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 28 June 2017 11:45 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool Thanks' Guys,The pool will be modest, to save cost. ?The pool will be 10 feet long 6 feet wide and 6 feet deep. ?The steel I beam I have is 16 inches tall and 8 inches wide with a 3\8 web and 1\2 inch top and bottom. ?I have no idea if it is rated, but I have a good friend that does all my engineering for work stuff. ?I can get him to do the math, no?problem. ?I can easily throw a tellapost under to cut down the span when I lift to much. ? I have used this beam many times over the years to support masonry chimneys when we lift houses and being such a tall beam it is amazingly strong. ? There is little risk of freezing because the shop will be heated. ?I could always drain it when I go away.I may have to rethink the design after Alan provided a much nicer design! ;-) Hank On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:34 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,when you said you weren't doing anything submarine for a yearI had my doubts. Below is an image that may help you in yournew indoor submarine pool design.Alan? Sent from my iPad On 28/06/2017, at 1:11 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Renovations on my new house are going so well that I can start renovating my new old shop. ?I built it 20 years ago so it needs a bit of help. ?I am replacing the wood centre beam with a steel I beam so I can lift and roll subs with a beam trolly. ?And the biggy is, the test pool at the end of the steel beam. ?I am installing an in floor pool. ?I am tired of driving for 1.5 hr to do a 5 minute test then drive home for 1.5 hr. ?I happen to be in the concrete cutting business also , so I can cut out the floor easy as pie. ?I will make the pool walls with styrofoam blocks filled with concrete, (ICF) ?so the sub will bump into soft walls. ?So when it is -20C outside I can go for a little sub dive. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 83434 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 29 17:52:05 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jerry Koontz via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 17:52:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 134 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <992882027.893084.1498773125532.JavaMail.root@md20.quartz.synacor.com> Last summer when I built my shop to start building my sub, IREX. I also put in a pool, mine is a little bigger that the one you have described. I treat it as a swimming pool. I have a filter in it and I use an ozonator system., so I don't need other chemicals. Seems to work good. ----- Original Message ----- From: "via Personal_Submersibles" To: "personal submersibles" Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2017 4:33:42 PM Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 134 Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: test pool (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 21:30:05 +0000 (UTC) From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool Message-ID: <1285760585.1728679.1498771805304 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Pete,I had not thought about scum, not sure if it will form from municipal water source? ?Hank On Thursday, June 29, 2017 7:26 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,Any plan to treat the water or Styrofoam sides to prevent grunge? Circulation pump? Rent it out for hot tub parties?Jim In a message dated 6/28/2017 4:25:09 PM Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Hugh,I was actually looking for a 20 foot can and found them to be too expensive. ?Here we pay 3,000 dollars for a can without delivery. ?I can make my pool for 1,500 dollars with concrete. ?The other thing is, the shop height is not sufficient to lift the sub over the side of the can. ?Keeping it outside would be no fun in the winter. ?I think in the floor is going to be real convenient and quick to put in and out. ?If I lived in NZ, I would go with a sea can and crane.Hank On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:09 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: HI Hank, Have you looked at a container for a pool.? Cut open the top and you have 8ft x 8ft x either 20 ft or 10 ft but when empty it is moveable!! The only thing is that it may need a box section? welded along the side in the middle but it is a walking platform ? way up which is useful.? The other is that you can put a window in the side. I saw a similar beast in a Sub business in Vancouver.? Just a thought.? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 28 June 2017 11:45 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool Thanks' Guys,The pool will be modest, to save cost. ?The pool will be 10 feet long 6 feet wide and 6 feet deep. ?The steel I beam I have is 16 inches tall and 8 inches wide with a 3\8 web and 1\2 inch top and bottom. ?I have no idea if it is rated, but I have a good friend that does all my engineering for work stuff. ?I can get him to do the math, no?problem. ?I can easily throw a tellapost under to cut down the span when I lift to much. ? I have used this beam many times over the years to support masonry chimneys when we lift houses and being such a tall beam it is amazingly strong. ? There is little risk of freezing because the shop will be heated. ?I could always drain it when I go away.I may have to rethink the design after Alan provided a much nicer design! ;-) Hank On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:34 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,when you said you weren't doing anything submarine for a yearI had my doubts. Below is an image that may help you in yournew indoor submarine pool design.Alan? Sent from my iPad On 28/06/2017, at 1:11 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Renovations on my new house are going so well that I can start renovating my new old shop. ?I built it 20 years ago so it needs a bit of help. ?I am replacing the wood centre beam with a steel I beam so I can lift and roll subs with a beam trolly. ?And the biggy is, the test pool at the end of the steel beam. ?I am installing an in floor pool. ?I am tired of driving for 1.5 hr to do a 5 minute test then drive home for 1.5 hr. ?I happen to be in the concrete cutting business also , so I can cut out the floor easy as pie. ?I will make the pool walls with styrofoam blocks filled with concrete, (ICF) ?so the sub will bump into soft walls. ?So when it is -20C outside I can go for a little sub dive. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 83434 bytes Desc: not available URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 134 ****************************************************** From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 29 18:23:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 22:23:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 134 In-Reply-To: <992882027.893084.1498773125532.JavaMail.root@md20.quartz.synacor.com> References: <992882027.893084.1498773125532.JavaMail.root@md20.quartz.synacor.com> Message-ID: <1928409138.1764810.1498775036264@mail.yahoo.com> Jerry,What are you building, how big etc? ?my pool is just for testing weight and balance, so it is pretty small. ?I can drain it and refill when?necessary.Hank On Thursday, June 29, 2017 3:52 PM, Jerry Koontz via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Last summer when I built my shop to start building my sub, IREX. I also put in a pool, mine is a little bigger that the one you have described. I treat it as a swimming pool. I have a filter in it and I use an ozonator system., so I don't need other chemicals. Seems to work good. ----- Original Message ----- From: "via Personal_Submersibles" To: "personal submersibles" Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2017 4:33:42 PM Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 134 Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to ??? personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at ??? personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: ? 1. Re: test pool (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 21:30:05 +0000 (UTC) From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ??? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ??? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool Message-ID: <1285760585.1728679.1498771805304 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Pete,I had not thought about scum, not sure if it will form from municipal water source? ?Hank ? ? On Thursday, June 29, 2017 7:26 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,Any plan to treat the water or Styrofoam sides to prevent grunge? Circulation pump? Rent it out for hot tub parties?Jim In a message dated 6/28/2017 4:25:09 PM Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Hugh,I was actually looking for a 20 foot can and found them to be too expensive. ?Here we pay 3,000 dollars for a can without delivery. ?I can make my pool for 1,500 dollars with concrete. ?The other thing is, the shop height is not sufficient to lift the sub over the side of the can. ?Keeping it outside would be no fun in the winter. ?I think in the floor is going to be real convenient and quick to put in and out. ?If I lived in NZ, I would go with a sea can and crane.Hank On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:09 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: HI Hank, Have you looked at a container for a pool.? Cut open the top and you have 8ft x 8ft x either 20 ft or 10 ft but when empty it is moveable!! The only thing is that it may need a box section? welded along the side in the middle but it is a walking platform ? way up which is useful.? The other is that you can put a window in the side. I saw a similar beast in a Sub business in Vancouver.? Just a thought.? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 28 June 2017 11:45 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool Thanks' Guys,The pool will be modest, to save cost. ?The pool will be 10 feet long 6 feet wide and 6 feet deep. ?The steel I beam I have is 16 inches tall and 8 inches wide with a 3\8 web and 1\2 inch top and bottom. ?I have no idea if it is rated, but I have a good friend that does all my engineering for work stuff. ?I can get him to do the math, no?problem. ?I can easily throw a tellapost under to cut down the span when I lift to much. ? I have used this beam many times over the years to support masonry chimneys when we lift houses and being such a tall beam it is amazingly strong. ? There is little risk of freezing because the shop will be heated. ?I could always drain it when I go away.I may have to rethink the design after Alan provided a much nicer design! ;-) Hank On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:34 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,when you said you weren't doing anything submarine for a yearI had my doubts. Below is an image that may help you in yournew indoor submarine pool design.Alan? Sent from my iPad On 28/06/2017, at 1:11 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Renovations on my new house are going so well that I can start renovating my new old shop. ?I built it 20 years ago so it needs a bit of help. ?I am replacing the wood centre beam with a steel I beam so I can lift and roll subs with a beam trolly. ?And the biggy is, the test pool at the end of the steel beam. ?I am installing an in floor pool. ?I am tired of driving for 1.5 hr to do a 5 minute test then drive home for 1.5 hr. ?I happen to be in the concrete cutting business also , so I can cut out the floor easy as pie. ?I will make the pool walls with styrofoam blocks filled with concrete, (ICF) ?so the sub will bump into soft walls. ?So when it is -20C outside I can go for a little sub dive. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 83434 bytes Desc: not available URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 134 ****************************************************** _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 29 19:20:52 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jerry Koontz via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 19:20:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 135 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1681264557.899327.1498778452703.JavaMail.root@md20.quartz.synacor.com> Hank, IREX will be a very large submarine. 28 foot long and about 12 foot beam. The pressure hull is 72 inch in dia. Dive depth is 1200 feet. It will be used in the Great Lakes. I am already over two years in development and setting up a shop. Hope to start construction some time early fall 2017. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "via Personal_Submersibles" To: "personal submersibles" Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2017 5:27:32 PM Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 135 Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 134 (Jerry Koontz via Personal_Submersibles) 2. Re: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 134 (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 17:52:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Jerry Koontz via Personal_Submersibles To: personal submersibles , personal submersibles-request Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 134 Message-ID: <992882027.893084.1498773125532.JavaMail.root at md20.quartz.synacor.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Last summer when I built my shop to start building my sub, IREX. I also put in a pool, mine is a little bigger that the one you have described. I treat it as a swimming pool. I have a filter in it and I use an ozonator system., so I don't need other chemicals. Seems to work good. ----- Original Message ----- From: "via Personal_Submersibles" To: "personal submersibles" Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2017 4:33:42 PM Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 134 Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: test pool (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 21:30:05 +0000 (UTC) From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool Message-ID: <1285760585.1728679.1498771805304 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Pete,I had not thought about scum, not sure if it will form from municipal water source? ?Hank On Thursday, June 29, 2017 7:26 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,Any plan to treat the water or Styrofoam sides to prevent grunge? Circulation pump? Rent it out for hot tub parties?Jim In a message dated 6/28/2017 4:25:09 PM Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Hugh,I was actually looking for a 20 foot can and found them to be too expensive. ?Here we pay 3,000 dollars for a can without delivery. ?I can make my pool for 1,500 dollars with concrete. ?The other thing is, the shop height is not sufficient to lift the sub over the side of the can. ?Keeping it outside would be no fun in the winter. ?I think in the floor is going to be real convenient and quick to put in and out. ?If I lived in NZ, I would go with a sea can and crane.Hank On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:09 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: HI Hank, Have you looked at a container for a pool.? Cut open the top and you have 8ft x 8ft x either 20 ft or 10 ft but when empty it is moveable!! The only thing is that it may need a box section? welded along the side in the middle but it is a walking platform ? way up which is useful.? The other is that you can put a window in the side. I saw a similar beast in a Sub business in Vancouver.? Just a thought.? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 28 June 2017 11:45 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool Thanks' Guys,The pool will be modest, to save cost. ?The pool will be 10 feet long 6 feet wide and 6 feet deep. ?The steel I beam I have is 16 inches tall and 8 inches wide with a 3\8 web and 1\2 inch top and bottom. ?I have no idea if it is rated, but I have a good friend that does all my engineering for work stuff. ?I can get him to do the math, no?problem. ?I can easily throw a tellapost under to cut down the span when I lift to much. ? I have used this beam many times over the years to support masonry chimneys when we lift houses and being such a tall beam it is amazingly strong. ? There is little risk of freezing because the shop will be heated. ?I could always drain it when I go away.I may have to rethink the design after Alan provided a much nicer design! ;-) Hank On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:34 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,when you said you weren't doing anything submarine for a yearI had my doubts. Below is an image that may help you in yournew indoor submarine pool design.Alan? Sent from my iPad On 28/06/2017, at 1:11 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Renovations on my new house are going so well that I can start renovating my new old shop. ?I built it 20 years ago so it needs a bit of help. ?I am replacing the wood centre beam with a steel I beam so I can lift and roll subs with a beam trolly. ?And the biggy is, the test pool at the end of the steel beam. ?I am installing an in floor pool. ?I am tired of driving for 1.5 hr to do a 5 minute test then drive home for 1.5 hr. ?I happen to be in the concrete cutting business also , so I can cut out the floor easy as pie. ?I will make the pool walls with styrofoam blocks filled with concrete, (ICF) ?so the sub will bump into soft walls. ?So when it is -20C outside I can go for a little sub dive. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 83434 bytes Desc: not available URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 134 ****************************************************** ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 22:23:56 +0000 (UTC) From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 134 Message-ID: <1928409138.1764810.1498775036264 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Jerry,What are you building, how big etc? ?my pool is just for testing weight and balance, so it is pretty small. ?I can drain it and refill when?necessary.Hank On Thursday, June 29, 2017 3:52 PM, Jerry Koontz via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Last summer when I built my shop to start building my sub, IREX. I also put in a pool, mine is a little bigger that the one you have described. I treat it as a swimming pool. I have a filter in it and I use an ozonator system., so I don't need other chemicals. Seems to work good. ----- Original Message ----- From: "via Personal_Submersibles" To: "personal submersibles" Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2017 4:33:42 PM Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 134 Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to ??? personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at ??? personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: ? 1. Re: test pool (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 21:30:05 +0000 (UTC) From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ??? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ??? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool Message-ID: <1285760585.1728679.1498771805304 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Pete,I had not thought about scum, not sure if it will form from municipal water source? ?Hank ? ? On Thursday, June 29, 2017 7:26 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,Any plan to treat the water or Styrofoam sides to prevent grunge? Circulation pump? Rent it out for hot tub parties?Jim In a message dated 6/28/2017 4:25:09 PM Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Hugh,I was actually looking for a 20 foot can and found them to be too expensive. ?Here we pay 3,000 dollars for a can without delivery. ?I can make my pool for 1,500 dollars with concrete. ?The other thing is, the shop height is not sufficient to lift the sub over the side of the can. ?Keeping it outside would be no fun in the winter. ?I think in the floor is going to be real convenient and quick to put in and out. ?If I lived in NZ, I would go with a sea can and crane.Hank On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:09 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: HI Hank, Have you looked at a container for a pool.? Cut open the top and you have 8ft x 8ft x either 20 ft or 10 ft but when empty it is moveable!! The only thing is that it may need a box section? welded along the side in the middle but it is a walking platform ? way up which is useful.? The other is that you can put a window in the side. I saw a similar beast in a Sub business in Vancouver.? Just a thought.? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 28 June 2017 11:45 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool Thanks' Guys,The pool will be modest, to save cost. ?The pool will be 10 feet long 6 feet wide and 6 feet deep. ?The steel I beam I have is 16 inches tall and 8 inches wide with a 3\8 web and 1\2 inch top and bottom. ?I have no idea if it is rated, but I have a good friend that does all my engineering for work stuff. ?I can get him to do the math, no?problem. ?I can easily throw a tellapost under to cut down the span when I lift to much. ? I have used this beam many times over the years to support masonry chimneys when we lift houses and being such a tall beam it is amazingly strong. ? There is little risk of freezing because the shop will be heated. ?I could always drain it when I go away.I may have to rethink the design after Alan provided a much nicer design! ;-) Hank On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:34 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,when you said you weren't doing anything submarine for a yearI had my doubts. Below is an image that may help you in yournew indoor submarine pool design.Alan? Sent from my iPad On 28/06/2017, at 1:11 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Renovations on my new house are going so well that I can start renovating my new old shop. ?I built it 20 years ago so it needs a bit of help. ?I am replacing the wood centre beam with a steel I beam so I can lift and roll subs with a beam trolly. ?And the biggy is, the test pool at the end of the steel beam. ?I am installing an in floor pool. ?I am tired of driving for 1.5 hr to do a 5 minute test then drive home for 1.5 hr. ?I happen to be in the concrete cutting business also , so I can cut out the floor easy as pie. ?I will make the pool walls with styrofoam blocks filled with concrete, (ICF) ?so the sub will bump into soft walls. ?So when it is -20C outside I can go for a little sub dive. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 83434 bytes Desc: not available URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 134 ****************************************************** _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 135 ****************************************************** From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 29 19:30:45 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 23:30:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 135 In-Reply-To: <1681264557.899327.1498778452703.JavaMail.root@md20.quartz.synacor.com> References: <1681264557.899327.1498778452703.JavaMail.root@md20.quartz.synacor.com> Message-ID: <1598014057.1799971.1498779045840@mail.yahoo.com> Jerry,Are you in the US or Canada?Hank On Thursday, June 29, 2017 5:21 PM, Jerry Koontz via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, IREX will be a very large submarine. 28 foot long and about 12 foot beam. The pressure hull is 72 inch in dia. Dive depth is 1200 feet. It will be used in the Great Lakes. I am already over two years in development and setting up a shop. Hope to start construction some time early fall 2017. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "via Personal_Submersibles" To: "personal submersibles" Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2017 5:27:32 PM Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 135 Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to ??? personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at ??? personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: ? 1. Re: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 134 ? ? ? (Jerry Koontz via Personal_Submersibles) ? 2. Re: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 134 ? ? ? (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 17:52:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Jerry Koontz via Personal_Submersibles ??? To: personal submersibles , personal ??? submersibles-request Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, ??? Issue 134 Message-ID: ??? <992882027.893084.1498773125532.JavaMail.root at md20.quartz.synacor.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Last summer when I built my shop to start building my sub, IREX. I also put in a pool, mine is a little bigger that the one you have described. I treat it as a swimming pool. I have a filter in it and I use an ozonator system., so I don't need other chemicals. Seems to work good. ----- Original Message ----- From: "via Personal_Submersibles" To: "personal submersibles" Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2017 4:33:42 PM Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 134 Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to ??? personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at ??? personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: ? 1. Re: test pool (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 21:30:05 +0000 (UTC) From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ??? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ??? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool Message-ID: <1285760585.1728679.1498771805304 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Pete,I had not thought about scum, not sure if it will form from municipal water source? ?Hank ? ? On Thursday, June 29, 2017 7:26 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,Any plan to treat the water or Styrofoam sides to prevent grunge? Circulation pump? Rent it out for hot tub parties?Jim In a message dated 6/28/2017 4:25:09 PM Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Hugh,I was actually looking for a 20 foot can and found them to be too expensive. ?Here we pay 3,000 dollars for a can without delivery. ?I can make my pool for 1,500 dollars with concrete. ?The other thing is, the shop height is not sufficient to lift the sub over the side of the can. ?Keeping it outside would be no fun in the winter. ?I think in the floor is going to be real convenient and quick to put in and out. ?If I lived in NZ, I would go with a sea can and crane.Hank On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:09 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: HI Hank, Have you looked at a container for a pool.? Cut open the top and you have 8ft x 8ft x either 20 ft or 10 ft but when empty it is moveable!! The only thing is that it may need a box section? welded along the side in the middle but it is a walking platform ? way up which is useful.? The other is that you can put a window in the side. I saw a similar beast in a Sub business in Vancouver.? Just a thought.? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 28 June 2017 11:45 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool Thanks' Guys,The pool will be modest, to save cost. ?The pool will be 10 feet long 6 feet wide and 6 feet deep. ?The steel I beam I have is 16 inches tall and 8 inches wide with a 3\8 web and 1\2 inch top and bottom. ?I have no idea if it is rated, but I have a good friend that does all my engineering for work stuff. ?I can get him to do the math, no?problem. ?I can easily throw a tellapost under to cut down the span when I lift to much. ? I have used this beam many times over the years to support masonry chimneys when we lift houses and being such a tall beam it is amazingly strong. ? There is little risk of freezing because the shop will be heated. ?I could always drain it when I go away.I may have to rethink the design after Alan provided a much nicer design! ;-) Hank On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:34 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,when you said you weren't doing anything submarine for a yearI had my doubts. Below is an image that may help you in yournew indoor submarine pool design.Alan? Sent from my iPad On 28/06/2017, at 1:11 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Renovations on my new house are going so well that I can start renovating my new old shop. ?I built it 20 years ago so it needs a bit of help. ?I am replacing the wood centre beam with a steel I beam so I can lift and roll subs with a beam trolly. ?And the biggy is, the test pool at the end of the steel beam. ?I am installing an in floor pool. ?I am tired of driving for 1.5 hr to do a 5 minute test then drive home for 1.5 hr. ?I happen to be in the concrete cutting business also , so I can cut out the floor easy as pie. ?I will make the pool walls with styrofoam blocks filled with concrete, (ICF) ?so the sub will bump into soft walls. ?So when it is -20C outside I can go for a little sub dive. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 83434 bytes Desc: not available URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 134 ****************************************************** ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 22:23:56 +0000 (UTC) From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ??? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ??? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, ??? Issue 134 Message-ID: <1928409138.1764810.1498775036264 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Jerry,What are you building, how big etc? ?my pool is just for testing weight and balance, so it is pretty small. ?I can drain it and refill when?necessary.Hank ? ? On Thursday, June 29, 2017 3:52 PM, Jerry Koontz via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Last summer when I built my shop to start building my sub, IREX. I also put in a pool, mine is a little bigger that the one you have described. I treat it as a swimming pool. I have a filter in it and I use an ozonator system., so I don't need other chemicals. Seems to work good. ----- Original Message ----- From: "via Personal_Submersibles" To: "personal submersibles" Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2017 4:33:42 PM Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 134 Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to ??? personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at ??? personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: ? 1. Re: test pool (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 21:30:05 +0000 (UTC) From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ??? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ??? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool Message-ID: <1285760585.1728679.1498771805304 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Pete,I had not thought about scum, not sure if it will form from municipal water source? ?Hank ? ? On Thursday, June 29, 2017 7:26 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,Any plan to treat the water or Styrofoam sides to prevent grunge? Circulation pump? Rent it out for hot tub parties?Jim In a message dated 6/28/2017 4:25:09 PM Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Hugh,I was actually looking for a 20 foot can and found them to be too expensive. ?Here we pay 3,000 dollars for a can without delivery. ?I can make my pool for 1,500 dollars with concrete. ?The other thing is, the shop height is not sufficient to lift the sub over the side of the can. ?Keeping it outside would be no fun in the winter. ?I think in the floor is going to be real convenient and quick to put in and out. ?If I lived in NZ, I would go with a sea can and crane.Hank On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:09 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: HI Hank, Have you looked at a container for a pool.? Cut open the top and you have 8ft x 8ft x either 20 ft or 10 ft but when empty it is moveable!! The only thing is that it may need a box section? welded along the side in the middle but it is a walking platform ? way up which is useful.? The other is that you can put a window in the side. I saw a similar beast in a Sub business in Vancouver.? Just a thought.? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 28 June 2017 11:45 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool Thanks' Guys,The pool will be modest, to save cost. ?The pool will be 10 feet long 6 feet wide and 6 feet deep. ?The steel I beam I have is 16 inches tall and 8 inches wide with a 3\8 web and 1\2 inch top and bottom. ?I have no idea if it is rated, but I have a good friend that does all my engineering for work stuff. ?I can get him to do the math, no?problem. ?I can easily throw a tellapost under to cut down the span when I lift to much. ? I have used this beam many times over the years to support masonry chimneys when we lift houses and being such a tall beam it is amazingly strong. ? There is little risk of freezing because the shop will be heated. ?I could always drain it when I go away.I may have to rethink the design after Alan provided a much nicer design! ;-) Hank On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:34 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,when you said you weren't doing anything submarine for a yearI had my doubts. Below is an image that may help you in yournew indoor submarine pool design.Alan? Sent from my iPad On 28/06/2017, at 1:11 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Renovations on my new house are going so well that I can start renovating my new old shop. ?I built it 20 years ago so it needs a bit of help. ?I am replacing the wood centre beam with a steel I beam so I can lift and roll subs with a beam trolly. ?And the biggy is, the test pool at the end of the steel beam. ?I am installing an in floor pool. ?I am tired of driving for 1.5 hr to do a 5 minute test then drive home for 1.5 hr. ?I happen to be in the concrete cutting business also , so I can cut out the floor easy as pie. ?I will make the pool walls with styrofoam blocks filled with concrete, (ICF) ?so the sub will bump into soft walls. ?So when it is -20C outside I can go for a little sub dive. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 83434 bytes Desc: not available URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 134 ****************************************************** _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 48, Issue 135 ****************************************************** _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 30 00:21:15 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 21:21:15 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] initial launch video In-Reply-To: <20170616190337.677B641B@m0117565.ppops.net> References: <20170616190337.677B641B@m0117565.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi Brian, I occasionally have projects in the southern part of the state. I'll drop you line next time down that way. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 7:03 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks David ! You ever get down do So Cal ? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] initial launch video > Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 16:56:59 -0700 > > Brian, Wow, Love the design and congrates. > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > > On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 1:31 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Brian, > I hate to see that defeated look on your face. I am amazed at your stick > to it, work ethic. > Hank > > > On Friday, June 16, 2017 1:54 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Doug, You can have access too ! For a price ! > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] initial launch video > Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 15:07:55 -0400 > > Way to go Brian! Boy what I would do to have access to a crane like > that one... ~ Douglas S. > > On 6/16/17, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Hi All, > > Here is the initial launch, I didn't have any stability > > problems throughout the transition from total flotation to submerged . > Most > > of the additional weight that I added from last time is located in the > > bottom of the ferro structure closest to the sphere and I had about 300 > lbs > > in the drop weight hopper. > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LUEOJEqO18 > > > > Brian > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 30 09:47:27 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 15:47:27 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool In-Reply-To: References: <1519327750.89615.1498612317445.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1519327750.89615.1498612317445@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <04ab01d2f1a7$6979fb40$3c6df1c0$@nl> Friends in Potsdam have also a nice test pool in the garden. Vid has been shared before ; is from the escape training. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdIleUORf0I Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 28 juni 2017 11:34 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool Hank, when you said you weren't doing anything submarine for a year I had my doubts. Below is an image that may help you in your new indoor submarine pool design. Alan image1.jpeg Sent from my iPad On 28/06/2017, at 1:11 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, Renovations on my new house are going so well that I can start renovating my new old shop. I built it 20 years ago so it needs a bit of help. I am replacing the wood centre beam with a steel I beam so I can lift and roll subs with a beam trolly. And the biggy is, the test pool at the end of the steel beam. I am installing an in floor pool. I am tired of driving for 1.5 hr to do a 5 minute test then drive home for 1.5 hr. I happen to be in the concrete cutting business also , so I can cut out the floor easy as pie. I will make the pool walls with styrofoam blocks filled with concrete, (ICF) so the sub will bump into soft walls. So when it is -20C outside I can go for a little sub dive. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 83434 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 30 17:53:12 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 21:53:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] machine shop References: <1424876105.2584344.1498859592452.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1424876105.2584344.1498859592452@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,Now that I have my new steel beam in place with minor blood loss, I plan to make a machine shop area. ?I have always wanted my lathe to be in a heated clean space. ?It can't be good for the lathe to get dirty all the time. ?Also when it gets real cold over night the oil in the lathe really slows the motor down. ?I will make a nice heated room with good lighting. ??Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 30 17:59:26 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 21:59:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] heads References: <1820976408.2606515.1498859966494.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1820976408.2606515.1498859966494@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Sean,I just heard back from EE with a cost for two 36 inch id ?3.5 inch heads, and they can not do 1% Diameter sphericity. ?They can do ASME code witch is 1.25% or 5\8 inch. ?I suppose that would mean machining the heads. ?The heads could be machined to a very close tolerance then. ?I would have to build a turret lathe then.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 30 19:10:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 16:10:53 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] heads In-Reply-To: R41md7v45wSGxR41odKhQ7 References: <1820976408.2606515.1498859966494.ref@mail.yahoo.com> R41md7v45wSGxR41odKhQ7 Message-ID: <35c0fd3c-66a4-4a9f-b81b-f0ce0d8358de@email.android.com> I presume that the achievable diametral tolerance is a result of the head thinning at the apex during hot pressing / spinning as material is pushed towards the flange. I forget the numbers now, but some time ago I posted a synopsis sourced from someone at EE explaining exactly what the typical thinning was. In any case, full hemispheres exhibit more thinning than 2:1 SE heads or dished heads of lesser depth, just because they are deeper. Two solutions to this are to form thicker than you need and then machine to remove the extraneous material away from the apex (expensive), or to form multiple spherically dished heads of shallower form and weld them together to fabricate your sphere. Nuytco uses six such dished heads on the DeepWorker spheres, pressed once on center and then a few times around the outside to get the best sphericity of the dish before trimming to shape and welding together in a jig to create the sphere. This corresponds to a cubic face construction, but you can do this with with as few as four sections, corresponding to faces on a tetrahedron, or as many as twenty sections, corresponding to faces on an icosahedron. Machining two hemispheres down to the apex thickness all over would give you the most theoretically perfect hull, but it is ridiculously expensive to do. Phil's method is a good tradeoff, at the expense of three times the welding. Sean On June 30, 2017 2:59:26 PM PDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi Sean,I just heard back from EE with a cost for two 36 inch id ?3.5 >inch heads, and they can not do 1% Diameter sphericity. ?They can do >ASME code witch is 1.25% or 5\8 inch. ?I suppose that would mean >machining the heads. ?The heads could be machined to a very close >tolerance then. ?I would have to build a turret lathe then.Hank > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 30 19:38:20 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 23:38:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] heads In-Reply-To: <35c0fd3c-66a4-4a9f-b81b-f0ce0d8358de@email.android.com> References: <1820976408.2606515.1498859966494.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <35c0fd3c-66a4-4a9f-b81b-f0ce0d8358de@email.android.com> Message-ID: <599464674.2623555.1498865900938@mail.yahoo.com> Sean,I am getting?clarification on where the sphericity is out of whack. ?I assume at the equator. ?I can machine them down myself, and rather that then trying to weld 3 inch material. ?The heads start out at 3.5 inches to produce a minimum of 3 inches at the apex.Hank On Friday, June 30, 2017 5:11 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I presume that the achievable diametral tolerance is a result of the head thinning at the apex during hot pressing / spinning as material is pushed towards the flange. I forget the numbers now, but some time ago I posted a synopsis sourced from someone at EE explaining exactly what the typical thinning was. In any case, full hemispheres exhibit more thinning than 2:1 SE heads or dished heads of lesser depth, just because they are deeper. Two solutions to this are to form thicker than you need and then machine to remove the extraneous material away from the apex (expensive), or to form multiple spherically dished heads of shallower form and weld them together to fabricate your sphere. Nuytco uses six such dished heads on the DeepWorker spheres, pressed once on center and then a few times around the outside to get the best sphericity of the dish before trimming to shape and welding together in a jig to create the sphere. This corresponds t! o acubic face construction, but you can do this with with as few as four sections, corresponding to faces on a tetrahedron, or as many as twenty sections, corresponding to faces on an icosahedron.Machining two hemispheres down to the apex thickness all over would give you the most theoretically perfect hull, but it is ridiculously expensive to do. Phil's method is a good tradeoff, at the expense of three times the welding.Sean On June 30, 2017 2:59:26 PM PDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Sean,I just heard back from EE with a cost for two 36 inch id ?3.5 inch heads, and they can not do 1% Diameter sphericity. ?They can do ASME code witch is 1.25% or 5\8 inch. ?I suppose that would mean machining the heads. ?The heads could be machined to a very close tolerance then. ?I would have to build a turret lathe then.Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 30 20:17:01 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 17:17:01 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam. Message-ID: <20170630171701.C6A86479@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: