From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 2 14:03:08 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 11:03:08 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber motor Message-ID: <20170502110308.841F13F8@m0087794.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 3 06:04:27 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 22:04:27 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber motor In-Reply-To: <20170502110308.841F13F8@m0087794.ppops.net> References: <20170502110308.841F13F8@m0087794.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1DFCBBF4-43B7-4A14-AFDC-0EC7C778D422@yahoo.com> Hi Brian, sounds like things are moving on. I was just reading through the G.L. rules on scrubbers, & they require a dust filter of non combustible material. So if you want to go by the book, the paper filters are out. I haven't looked in to what non combustible alternatives there are yet. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/05/2017, at 6:03 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > Got my scrubber fan today ! I got the one that Cliff recommended, really nice unit ! Seems like a real solid heavy duty fan . I'm hoping that it will run in either direction since considering the discussion about pushing the air flow from the inside out of the scrubber as being more efficient. Also I noticed a shop vac filter replacement that would be the ideal size for a scrubber. Do you think the filter paper would be too much of a restriction for the air flow? there is quite a bit more air pressure in a shop vac for sure but I might test it out to see. > > Brian > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 3 10:42:37 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 07:42:37 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber motor Message-ID: <20170503074237.84183D55@m0087793.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 3 13:09:09 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 17:09:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber motor In-Reply-To: <20170503074237.84183D55@m0087793.ppops.net> References: <20170503074237.84183D55@m0087793.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1778543459.1564928.1493831349415@mail.yahoo.com> Quadrafoam? Air Filters | NEBS | FF-5x, FF-3 | Universal Air Filter | | | | | | | | | | | Quadrafoam? Air Filters | NEBS | FF-5x, FF-3 | Universal Air Filter Quadrafoam? air filters are offered in a broad range of porosities (25 PPI, 45 PPI) and models (FF-5X, FF-3) to ... | | | | From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2017 10:44 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber motor Alan,????? That's interesting,?I guess the less combustible material the better.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber motor Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 22:04:27 +1200 Hi Brian,sounds like things are moving on.I was just reading through the G.L. rules on scrubbers, & they require a dustfilter of non combustible material. So if you want to go by the book, the paperfilters are out. I haven't looked in to what non combustible alternatives thereare yet.Alan Sent from my iPad On 3/05/2017, at 6:03 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, ??????????????? Got my scrubber fan today !?? I got the one that Cliff recommended, really nice unit !?? Seems like a real solid heavy duty fan .? I'm hoping that it will run in either direction since considering the discussion about pushing the air flow?from the inside out of the scrubber as being more efficient.?? Also I noticed a shop vac filter replacement that would be the ideal size for a scrubber.? Do you think the filter paper would be too much of a restriction for the air flow?? there is quite a bit more air pressure in a shop vac for sure but I might test it out to see.?Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 4 06:50:36 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 10:50:36 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on eBay - cheap Message-ID: This is really interesting and looks like a serious sub. http://www.ebay.com/itm/332201214951 Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 4 08:03:43 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 12:03:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on eBay - cheap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1818160765.2686675.1493899423944@mail.yahoo.com> That sub has real potential for a low cost sub. ?It looks to be close to being dive ready. ?Can't beat the price, don't let the dirt hold you back.Hank On Thursday, May 4, 2017 4:51 AM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: This is really interesting and looks like a serious sub. http://www.ebay.com/itm/332201214951 Get Outlook for Android _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 4 08:49:04 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 12:49:04 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on eBay - cheap Message-ID: Mike Patterson is quickly looking into it. Seems like a solid design. Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 4 09:01:12 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 13:01:12 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on eBay - cheap Message-ID: Mike Patterson is quickly looking into it. Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 4 16:00:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 13:00:53 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fluid expansion Message-ID: <20170504130053.8428F333@m0086238.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 4 16:35:42 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 08:35:42 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fluid expansion In-Reply-To: <20170504130053.8428F333@m0086238.ppops.net> References: <20170504130053.8428F333@m0086238.ppops.net> Message-ID: <147322EA-EE24-4EA9-9AEA-48B3C6CE144C@yahoo.com> Brian, I would be suspicious that there was some air in the system that was expanding. It just sounds excessive! There are technical data sheets out there with the expansion rates of WD40 if you wanted to check. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 5/05/2017, at 8:00 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > Been watching my WD-40 expand in the hot weather while I build these stupid fenders for my trailer. I definitely will need a substantial reservoir bladder if I plan to park the sub in the blazing hot Ojai sun ! Have a 1" vinyl tube attached to the top of the motor pod, as I was working on the fenders I noticed the fluid level climbing and climbing , finally had to drain a bunch out. Ran the motor with the fluid no problem. > > Brian > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 4 17:13:11 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 21:13:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fluid expansion In-Reply-To: <20170504130053.8428F333@m0086238.ppops.net> References: <20170504130053.8428F333@m0086238.ppops.net> Message-ID: <718840322.2472926.1493932391242@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,Sun is very bad for your ports. ?Better make covers, my wife bought me 8 shower caps for Gamma CT windows for protection in the shop.Hank On Thursday, May 4, 2017 2:01 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,???????????????? Been watching my WD-40 expand in the hot weather while I build these stupid fenders for my trailer.?? I definitely will need a substantial reservoir bladder if I plan to park the sub in the blazing hot Ojai sun !?? Have a 1"? vinyl tube attached to the top of the motor pod,?as I was working on the fenders I noticed the fluid level climbing and climbing , finally had to drain a bunch out.?? Ran the motor with the fluid no problem.? ?Brian_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 4 20:52:46 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 00:52:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fluid expansion In-Reply-To: <20170504130053.8428F333@m0086238.ppops.net> References: <20170504130053.8428F333@m0086238.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1466404276.2711668.1493945566539@mail.yahoo.com> Brian, I was the one who first tried WD40 back in the day and recommended it to the group. However, it turned out not to be not such a great idea. First, it turned my plastic and rubber parts hard and brittle over time- tubing, wire insulation and shaft seals. It is also too thin. The thinness causes it to?seep from multiple points on the motors. Lastly, it's also too thin to provide the correct lubrication?for the bearings. If you like oil compensation then a thicker silicon based oil would be better. I think that Carsten and Emile have had good experience going that way so check with them. Hopefully my sub will be back in the water this summer and I plan to return to an air compensated system. Greg C From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: PSubs Sent: Thursday, May 4, 2017 4:03 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fluid expansion Hi All,???????????????? Been watching my WD-40 expand in the hot weather while I build these stupid fenders for my trailer.?? I definitely will need a substantial reservoir bladder if I plan to park the sub in the blazing hot Ojai sun !?? Have a 1"? vinyl tube attached to the top of the motor pod,?as I was working on the fenders I noticed the fluid level climbing and climbing , finally had to drain a bunch out.?? Ran the motor with the fluid no problem.? ?Brian_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 4 23:12:44 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 20:12:44 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fluid expansion Message-ID: <20170504201244.8428D806@m0086238.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 4 23:14:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 20:14:49 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fluid expansion Message-ID: <20170504201449.8428D80F@m0086238.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 4 23:23:25 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 20:23:25 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] fluid expansion Message-ID: <20170504202325.8428D82F@m0086238.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 5 01:24:58 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gene via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 22:24:58 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vancouver visit In-Reply-To: <20170503074237.84183D55@m0087793.ppops.net> References: <20170503074237.84183D55@m0087793.ppops.net> Message-ID: <201705050524.v455OTWb004942@whoweb.com> Hi everybody. I?m Gene Seus, lurker in central California and sometimes active PSUBS participant since 1997, the humble beginnings! I?m going to Vancouver BC in the next couple of weeks and know we have two or three members there along with Mr. Nuytten. I would like to contact one of our members in BC for a small favor while I?m there. Don?t know that I?ll be there long enough for much sight seeing but? I?m driving up in the next 10 days or so. Going to be in Portland for the delivery of a new grand child and BC isn?t that much further. Thanks, Gene -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 5 11:50:13 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 08:50:13 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vancouver visit In-Reply-To: <201705050524.v455OTWb004942@whoweb.com> References: <20170503074237.84183D55@m0087793.ppops.net> <201705050524.v455OTWb004942@whoweb.com> Message-ID: <46188F9718BF47D0ADF896649A29B414@PhillPC> Gene, You are welcome to stop by Nuytco and see what we?re up to ? just let me know your schedule. Regards Phil From: Gene via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2017 10:24 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vancouver visit Hi everybody. I?m Gene Seus, lurker in central California and sometimes active PSUBS participant since 1997, the humble beginnings! I?m going to Vancouver BC in the next couple of weeks and know we have two or three members there along with Mr. Nuytten. I would like to contact one of our members in BC for a small favor while I?m there. Don?t know that I?ll be there long enough for much sight seeing but? I?m driving up in the next 10 days or so. Going to be in Portland for the delivery of a new grand child and BC isn?t that much further. Thanks, Gene -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 5 22:56:23 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 19:56:23 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vancouver visit Message-ID: <24399615.19272.1494039383884@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 6 02:54:54 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 23:54:54 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vancouver visit Message-ID: <20170505235454.84286344@m0086238.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 6 10:52:28 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 10:52:28 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vancouver visit In-Reply-To: <46188F9718BF47D0ADF896649A29B414@PhillPC> References: <46188F9718BF47D0ADF896649A29B414@PhillPC> Message-ID: <15bde3f660f-1c76-2395c@webprd-a04.mail.aol.com> Thank you Phil, I'll take you up on the invite. I had to miss the sub convention when it was in Vancouver a few years back... killed me to to miss it. My first purpose to visit BC is to pick up a medication I can't get shipped here from Belgium, but it just became secondary to a psub field trip! Can't say more on public forum. Geneseus at gmail.com Sent from Alto On Friday, May 5, 2017 at 8:50 AM Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Gene, You are welcome to stop by Nuytco and see what we?re up to ? just let me know your schedule. Regards Phil From: Gene via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2017 10:24 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vancouver visit Hi everybody. I?m Gene Seus, lurker in central California and sometimes active PSUBS participant since 1997, the humble beginnings! I?m going to Vancouver BC in the next couple of weeks and know we have two or three members there along with Mr. Nuytten. I would like to contact one of our members in BC for a small favor while I?m there. Don?t know that I?ll be there long enough for much sight seeing but? I?m driving up in the next 10 days or so. Going to be in Portland for the delivery of a new grand child and BC isn?t that much further. Thanks, Gene -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 6 11:28:02 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 08:28:02 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vancouver visit Message-ID: <10061250.2391.1494084483299@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 6 13:44:21 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 10:44:21 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vancouver visit Message-ID: <20170506104421.84199231@m0087795.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 6 17:19:22 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 14:19:22 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vancouver visit In-Reply-To: 6VkidIPSzYaZ16Vkkdrx3M References: <20170503074237.84183D55@m0087793.ppops.net> 6VkidIPSzYaZ16Vkkdrx3M Message-ID: <001801d2c6ae$6f24af50$4d6e0df0$@telus.net> Gene, Will you be in Vancouver on the weekend? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Gene via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, May 4, 2017 10:25 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vancouver visit Hi everybody. I?m Gene Seus, lurker in central California and sometimes active PSUBS participant since 1997, the humble beginnings! I?m going to Vancouver BC in the next couple of weeks and know we have two or three members there along with Mr. Nuytten. I would like to contact one of our members in BC for a small favor while I?m there. Don?t know that I?ll be there long enough for much sight seeing but? I?m driving up in the next 10 days or so. Going to be in Portland for the delivery of a new grand child and BC isn?t that much further. Thanks, Gene -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 7 13:05:38 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 17:05:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] onboard O2 References: <1207623387.4989858.1494176738494.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1207623387.4989858.1494176738494@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,I have purchased a few new medical O2 bottles for Elementary 3000. ?I got a bit worried after the O2 piping and penetrating discussion. ?I will have internal O2 supply and I admit I had some reservations because the big guys don't do that. ?Then! this morning I was watching a show on TV about a Saudi Prince flying around in his beautiful two seater glider. ? Low and behold, there it was, behind ?the pilot, a O2 bottle. ?If airplanes can carry O2 tanks inside the plane, why not a submarine? ?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 7 13:43:50 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 07:43:50 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] onboard O2 In-Reply-To: <1207623387.4989858.1494176738494@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1207623387.4989858.1494176738494.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1207623387.4989858.1494176738494@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I could be wrong but the way I see it, if you have an HP failure in an airplane you will never leave one atmosphere and you can crack a window to lessen the fire hazard from a high 02 level where as if the same happen in your boat, you are going to be pressed down in internal depth pretty quickly before you can reach the shut off valve on the bottle and you can't open a window to get rid of the high 02 level and then you also have the fact that the boat will equalize with the outside pressure well before you reach the surface. I may be over paranoid about this issue as I and 8 others were pressed accidentally while in Sat from 300' to a little over 400' while we were all asleep riding out a storm in the North Sea before someone woke up and caught the problem. I'll tell you the story off line sometime. Rick On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 7:05 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, > I have purchased a few new medical O2 bottles for Elementary 3000. I got > a bit worried after the O2 piping and penetrating discussion. I will have > internal O2 supply and I admit I had some reservations because the big guys > don't do that. Then! this morning I was watching a show on TV about a > Saudi Prince flying around in his beautiful two seater glider. Low and > behold, there it was, behind the pilot, a O2 bottle. If airplanes can > carry O2 tanks inside the plane, why not a submarine? > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 7 17:15:00 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 21:15:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] onboard O2 In-Reply-To: <1207623387.4989858.1494176738494@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1207623387.4989858.1494176738494.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1207623387.4989858.1494176738494@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <343847852.5302686.1494191700092@mail.yahoo.com> Rick,Valid points for sure, but in my case I have small bottles instead of one large bottle. ?Also the regulator fits directly to the tank, so the risk is so minimal. ?It comes down to our own personal experiences and comfort level. ?If I have a leak, the alarm will scream before the pressure is an issue. ?If you are real concerned about over pressures, pick up a small 12 v compressor and plumb it into a small tank to get rid of the pressure. ?That is one of the benefits of Gamma's internal HP compressor.Hank On Sunday, May 7, 2017 11:33 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I have purchased a few new medical O2 bottles for Elementary 3000. ?I got a bit worried after the O2 piping and penetrating discussion. ?I will have internal O2 supply and I admit I had some reservations because the big guys don't do that. ?Then! this morning I was watching a show on TV about a Saudi Prince flying around in his beautiful two seater glider. ? Low and behold, there it was, behind ?the pilot, a O2 bottle. ?If airplanes can carry O2 tanks inside the plane, why not a submarine? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 7 18:12:48 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 10:12:48 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] onboard O2 In-Reply-To: <343847852.5302686.1494191700092@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1207623387.4989858.1494176738494.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1207623387.4989858.1494176738494@mail.yahoo.com> <343847852.5302686.1494191700092@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, here are the G.L. rules regarding O2 storage inside the hull. " For storage of the oxygen bottles within the pressure hull the volume of the bottle is to be restricted in such a way that the pressure does not exceed by one atmosphere & the O2 content does not exceed 25% by volume if the complete contents escape." I have seen a burst disk on a tank go & the tank wasn't at any elevated heat. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 8/05/2017, at 9:15 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Rick, > Valid points for sure, but in my case I have small bottles instead of one large bottle. Also the regulator fits directly to the tank, so the risk is so minimal. It comes down to our own personal experiences and comfort level. If I have a leak, the alarm will scream before the pressure is an issue. If you are real concerned about over pressures, pick up a small 12 v compressor and plumb it into a small tank to get rid of the pressure. That is one of the benefits of Gamma's internal HP compressor. > Hank > > > On Sunday, May 7, 2017 11:33 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi All, > I have purchased a few new medical O2 bottles for Elementary 3000. I got a bit worried after the O2 piping and penetrating discussion. I will have internal O2 supply and I admit I had some reservations because the big guys don't do that. Then! this morning I was watching a show on TV about a Saudi Prince flying around in his beautiful two seater glider. Low and behold, there it was, behind the pilot, a O2 bottle. If airplanes can carry O2 tanks inside the plane, why not a submarine? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 7 19:00:27 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 23:00:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] onboard O2 In-Reply-To: <343847852.5302686.1494191700092@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1207623387.4989858.1494176738494.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1207623387.4989858.1494176738494@mail.yahoo.com> <343847852.5302686.1494191700092@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <856069672.4310734.1494198027197@mail.yahoo.com> I have to agree with Hank on this one. We have to remember that?the rules were meant to cover lots of different vehicles- some of them big commercial subs with multiple passengers?that went deep, stayed down a long time?and had BIG tanks of O2 that had to go outside. For home builders, the absolute safest way may be beyond our capabilities. For instance- External frames have many advantages over internal frames, BUT, if your not an expert welder, the internal style is the way to go for dependability. Same is true for acrylic. Every one knows that conical viewports are stronger that flat disc, right? But did you know that flat discs fail in the center and distort badly before they break while conical viewports usually fail on the high pressure surface with no warning? Sometimes low tech is safer. Same with batteries. Everyone knows that batteries should go outside in a external pod, right? But what happens if that external space floods? Even pro subs like Pisces can get trapped with a floodable space. It would be great if there were a?book that has all the tricks for building the safest subs possible at various levels of cost, depth capability?and expertise. What one guy may be able to do with the tools available may not be the best for some one else. Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, May 7, 2017 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] onboard O2 Rick,Valid points for sure, but in my case I have small bottles instead of one large bottle. ?Also the regulator fits directly to the tank, so the risk is so minimal. ?It comes down to our own personal experiences and comfort level. ?If I have a leak, the alarm will scream before the pressure is an issue. ?If you are real concerned about over pressures, pick up a small 12 v compressor and plumb it into a small tank to get rid of the pressure. ?That is one of the benefits of Gamma's internal HP compressor.Hank On Sunday, May 7, 2017 11:33 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I have purchased a few new medical O2 bottles for Elementary 3000. ?I got a bit worried after the O2 piping and penetrating discussion. ?I will have internal O2 supply and I admit I had some reservations because the big guys don't do that. ?Then! this morning I was watching a show on TV about a Saudi Prince flying around in his beautiful two seater glider. ? Low and behold, there it was, behind ?the pilot, a O2 bottle. ?If airplanes can carry O2 tanks inside the plane, why not a submarine? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 7 19:40:30 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 23:40:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] onboard O2 In-Reply-To: <856069672.4310734.1494198027197@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1207623387.4989858.1494176738494.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1207623387.4989858.1494176738494@mail.yahoo.com> <343847852.5302686.1494191700092@mail.yahoo.com> <856069672.4310734.1494198027197@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1462915650.909171.1494200430935@mail.yahoo.com> I had a flat disk fail in my test chamber and it was no big deal, just a spray of water where the gasket met the crack. ?It failed from a chip on the low pressure side.Hank On Sunday, May 7, 2017 5:03 PM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have to agree with Hank on this one. We have to remember that?the rules were meant to cover lots of different vehicles- some of them big commercial subs with multiple passengers?that went deep, stayed down a long time?and had BIG tanks of O2 that had to go outside. For home builders, the absolute safest way may be beyond our capabilities. For instance- External frames have many advantages over internal frames, BUT, if your not an expert welder, the internal style is the way to go for dependability. Same is true for acrylic. Every one knows that conical viewports are stronger that flat disc, right? But did you know that flat discs fail in the center and distort badly before they break while conical viewports usually fail on the high pressure surface with no warning? Sometimes low tech is safer. Same with batteries. Everyone knows that batteries should go outside in a external pod, right? But what happens if that external space floods? Even pro subs like Pisces can get trapped with a floodable space. It would be great if there were a?book that has all the tricks for building the safest subs possible at various levels of cost, depth capability?and expertise. What one guy may be able to do with the tools available may not be the best for some one else. Greg From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, May 7, 2017 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] onboard O2 Rick,Valid points for sure, but in my case I have small bottles instead of one large bottle. ?Also the regulator fits directly to the tank, so the risk is so minimal. ?It comes down to our own personal experiences and comfort level. ?If I have a leak, the alarm will scream before the pressure is an issue. ?If you are real concerned about over pressures, pick up a small 12 v compressor and plumb it into a small tank to get rid of the pressure. ?That is one of the benefits of Gamma's internal HP compressor.Hank On Sunday, May 7, 2017 11:33 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I have purchased a few new medical O2 bottles for Elementary 3000. ?I got a bit worried after the O2 piping and penetrating discussion. ?I will have internal O2 supply and I admit I had some reservations because the big guys don't do that. ?Then! this morning I was watching a show on TV about a Saudi Prince flying around in his beautiful two seater glider. ? Low and behold, there it was, behind ?the pilot, a O2 bottle. ?If airplanes can carry O2 tanks inside the plane, why not a submarine? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 7 19:55:57 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 23:55:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] onboard O2 In-Reply-To: References: <1207623387.4989858.1494176738494.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1207623387.4989858.1494176738494@mail.yahoo.com> <343847852.5302686.1494191700092@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <359832646.4276277.1494201357793@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Alan, My hull volume is 71 cubic ft. What size O2 bottles could I carry inside according to G.L. rules? Thanks, Greg From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, May 7, 2017 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] onboard O2 Hi Hank,here are the G.L. rules regarding O2 storage inside the hull.? ?" For storage of the oxygen bottles within the pressure hull the volume of?the bottle is to be restricted in such a way that the pressure does not exceedby one atmosphere & the O2 content does not ?exceed 25% by volume if thecomplete contents escape."? ?I have seen a burst disk on a tank go & the tank wasn't at any elevatedheat.Alan Sent from my iPad On 8/05/2017, at 9:15 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick,Valid points for sure, but in my case I have small bottles instead of one large bottle. ?Also the regulator fits directly to the tank, so the risk is so minimal. ?It comes down to our own personal experiences and comfort level. ?If I have a leak, the alarm will scream before the pressure is an issue. ?If you are real concerned about over pressures, pick up a small 12 v compressor and plumb it into a small tank to get rid of the pressure. ?That is one of the benefits of Gamma's internal HP compressor.Hank On Sunday, May 7, 2017 11:33 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I have purchased a few new medical O2 bottles for Elementary 3000. ?I got a bit worried after the O2 piping and penetrating discussion. ?I will have internal O2 supply and I admit I had some reservations because the big guys don't do that. ?Then! this morning I was watching a show on TV about a Saudi Prince flying around in his beautiful two seater glider. ? Low and behold, there it was, behind ?the pilot, a O2 bottle. ?If airplanes can carry O2 tanks inside the plane, why not a submarine? ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 7 22:19:05 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 14:19:05 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] onboard O2 In-Reply-To: <359832646.4276277.1494201357793@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1207623387.4989858.1494176738494.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1207623387.4989858.1494176738494@mail.yahoo.com> <343847852.5302686.1494191700092@mail.yahoo.com> <359832646.4276277.1494201357793@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Greg, I worked it out like this; if a 70 cubic ft tank emptied into your 71 cubic ft hull it would increase pressure by nearly 1 atmosphere. However I am not sure what pressure of O2 you would put in your tank. where I get fills it's 3000psi for air & 2000psi for O2. As to the percentage of O2 criteria, I converted your 71 cubic ft to litres which gave me 2010.5 cubic litres. With O2 being 21% this means there are 422.1 litres of O2 in your hull. At G.L.s limit of 25% there would need to be 502.625 litres of O2. So 502.625 - 422.1 = only 80.525 litres needed to take you to the limit. (2.84 cuft) Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 8/05/2017, at 11:55 AM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > My hull volume is 71 cubic ft. What size O2 bottles could I carry inside according to G.L. rules? > > Thanks, > > Greg > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sunday, May 7, 2017 6:14 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] onboard O2 > > Hi Hank, > here are the G.L. rules regarding O2 storage inside the hull. > " For storage of the oxygen bottles within the pressure hull the volume of > the bottle is to be restricted in such a way that the pressure does not exceed > by one atmosphere & the O2 content does not exceed 25% by volume if the > complete contents escape." > I have seen a burst disk on a tank go & the tank wasn't at any elevated > heat. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 8/05/2017, at 9:15 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Rick, >> Valid points for sure, but in my case I have small bottles instead of one large bottle. Also the regulator fits directly to the tank, so the risk is so minimal. It comes down to our own personal experiences and comfort level. If I have a leak, the alarm will scream before the pressure is an issue. If you are real concerned about over pressures, pick up a small 12 v compressor and plumb it into a small tank to get rid of the pressure. That is one of the benefits of Gamma's internal HP compressor. >> Hank >> >> >> On Sunday, May 7, 2017 11:33 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi All, >> I have purchased a few new medical O2 bottles for Elementary 3000. I got a bit worried after the O2 piping and penetrating discussion. I will have internal O2 supply and I admit I had some reservations because the big guys don't do that. Then! this morning I was watching a show on TV about a Saudi Prince flying around in his beautiful two seater glider. Low and behold, there it was, behind the pilot, a O2 bottle. If airplanes can carry O2 tanks inside the plane, why not a submarine? >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 7 22:34:49 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 02:34:49 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] onboard O2 Message-ID: I carry a small O2 tank (20 cubic feet) internally, connected directly to a pediatric regulator. The outflow is piped to the inlet of my scrubber (it's an axial), via the same tubing used for O2 masks, mixing the gas in the process as it's drawn through with the sub's air. . It's how I did it with my DIY rebreathers and I feel safer being able to directly control my O2 and not have to worry about organic contaminants in any lines coming in from the outside. But that's just me AND I don't plan on spending 10 hours at max depth. Brian Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 7 23:31:07 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 15:31:07 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] onboard O2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <69CB2FD8-2425-45DD-95DF-1203A92D40A5@yahoo.com> As per my calculations Brian, that would be over the limit if it emptied out, as far as G.L. rules on partial pressure of O2 is concerned. You wouldn't have any O2 toxicity problems just an elevated risk of fire. BTW I am just quoting the rules not advocating them. If it did happen that the contents of your O2 tank emptied in to your submarine, I would be inclined to go to the surface driving my thrusters at a low speed to avoid heating the electrics. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 8/05/2017, at 2:34 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I carry a small O2 tank (20 cubic feet) internally, connected directly to a pediatric regulator. The outflow is piped to the inlet of my scrubber (it's an axial), via the same tubing used for O2 masks, mixing the gas in the process as it's drawn through with the sub's air. > > . It's how I did it with my DIY rebreathers and I feel safer being able to directly control my O2 and not have to worry about organic contaminants in any lines coming in from the outside. But that's just me AND I don't plan on spending 10 hours at max depth. > > Brian > > > Get Outlook for Android > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 8 12:19:27 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 12:19:27 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] onboard O2 Message-ID: <001f01d2c816$ddd75c40$998614c0$@gmail.com> Or blow main ballast and come up with that way. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 8 17:29:38 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 17:29:38 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vancouver visit In-Reply-To: <001801d2c6ae$6f24af50$4d6e0df0$@telus.net> References: <001801d2c6ae$6f24af50$4d6e0df0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <15be9f7bc3f-1c76-298cd@webprd-a04.mail.aol.com> Tim, contact me off list please. Geneseus at gmail.com Sent from Alto On Saturday, May 6, 2017 at 2:19 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Gene, Will you be in Vancouver on the weekend? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Gene via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, May 4, 2017 10:25 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vancouver visit Hi everybody. I?m Gene Seus, lurker in central California and sometimes active PSUBS participant since 1997, the humble beginnings! I?m going to Vancouver BC in the next couple of weeks and know we have two or three members there along with Mr. Nuytten. I would like to contact one of our members in BC for a small favor while I?m there. Don?t know that I?ll be there long enough for much sight seeing but? I?m driving up in the next 10 days or so. Going to be in Portland for the delivery of a new grand child and BC isn?t that much further. Thanks, Gene -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 8 17:48:03 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 09:48:03 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] onboard O2 In-Reply-To: <001f01d2c816$ddd75c40$998614c0$@gmail.com> References: <001f01d2c816$ddd75c40$998614c0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <40CBEDD7-1EFA-41F0-BABF-21E1014218E7@yahoo.com> Brian, I didn't mention that because there would be an overpressure in the hull, & I thought the better of the two evils was to come up in a controlled manner to let the pressure escape more slowly in the last few feet. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 9/05/2017, at 4:19 AM, Brian via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Or blow main ballast and come up with that way. > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 8 19:31:33 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 08 May 2017 17:31:33 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] onboard O2 In-Reply-To: 7UR7drZA4qk437UR9dWL7H References: <1207623387.4989858.1494176738494.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1207623387.4989858.1494176738494@mail.yahoo.com> <343847852.5302686.1494191700092@mail.yahoo.com> 7UR7drZA4qk437UR9dWL7H Message-ID: <5dde367a-412b-4e75-b462-66723e8e355b@email.android.com> ABS is slightly more restrictive. Any single bottle, if emptied into the passenger compartment, must not raise the internal pressure more than 1 atm, nor the oxygen concentration above 23% (i.e. the normal upper alarm limit). If it does, the bottle has to be stored externally. Sean On May 7, 2017 4:12:48 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi Hank, >here are the G.L. rules regarding O2 storage inside the hull. >" For storage of the oxygen bottles within the pressure hull the volume >of >the bottle is to be restricted in such a way that the pressure does not >exceed >by one atmosphere & the O2 content does not exceed 25% by volume if >the >complete contents escape." >I have seen a burst disk on a tank go & the tank wasn't at any elevated >heat. >Alan > > >Sent from my iPad > >> On 8/05/2017, at 9:15 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Rick, >> Valid points for sure, but in my case I have small bottles instead of >one large bottle. Also the regulator fits directly to the tank, so the >risk is so minimal. It comes down to our own personal experiences and >comfort level. If I have a leak, the alarm will scream before the >pressure is an issue. If you are real concerned about over pressures, >pick up a small 12 v compressor and plumb it into a small tank to get >rid of the pressure. That is one of the benefits of Gamma's internal >HP compressor. >> Hank >> >> >> On Sunday, May 7, 2017 11:33 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> >> Hi All, >> I have purchased a few new medical O2 bottles for Elementary 3000. I >got a bit worried after the O2 piping and penetrating discussion. I >will have internal O2 supply and I admit I had some reservations >because the big guys don't do that. Then! this morning I was watching >a show on TV about a Saudi Prince flying around in his beautiful two >seater glider. Low and behold, there it was, behind the pilot, a O2 >bottle. If airplanes can carry O2 tanks inside the plane, why not a >submarine? >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 8 23:13:44 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 20:13:44 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] onboard O2 Message-ID: <20170508201344.8418169A@m0087795.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 9 10:43:51 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 10:43:51 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub on eBay - cheap Message-ID: <000a01d2c8d2$ad574230$0805c690$@gmail.com> Well . Mark Ragan and I and another fellow bought it. How can you turn down partial interest in a sub when entry into the club is only $500.00? We've been receiving more pictures and looks like an interesting project. There are ribs welded into place internally and from the few pictures we have so far, looks like the ballast system was plumbed and motors put in place and wired up. Evidently it was designed by a naval architect so there was at least one person involved who knew what he was doing. Was being built by a commercial diver who came down with cancer and died. It then sat for four years and the son decided he wanted it gone. Kind of like how I ended up with Lake Diver. The son is thrilled people like us bought it and might actually do something with it. Looks to be 4 feet in diameter so not a small sub, but we can't figure out why he put such small portholes on it. We're working on getting it back to Maryland. We may complete it and launch it. Or go through it and resell it. With the bow replaced with a large dome window it could make a pretty nifty tourist sub. We'll let you know when it gets up here and we start crawling around in it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 14 23:40:22 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 03:40:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> Hi,I have a number of penetrators to do on my lights & other items, & I'mlooking for the best materials for them.My design is as below. It is the base of my light housing.I have stripped a small section of wire that runs through the epoxy. I am not sure of the best material on the next 2 layers.I am looking at this marine silicone, to seal about an inch up the wiring jacket.http://www.selleys.co.nz/car-care/sealants/marine/Am thinking I will apply this silicone with a brush & then tidy things up & both protect the silicone & support the cable with a molded rubberized outer layer.I am not sure of a suitable moldable material for a marine environment.Am guessing?I will?need about the?same hardness as?a standard?o-ring.Any suggestions on the material or comments on the design thanks.Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: penetrator materials.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 223819 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 15 07:59:29 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 11:59:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials In-Reply-To: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,In an effort to keep it easy and clean looking, I would extend the penetrator body at the wet side to allow for ?threading on a compression fitting. ? Slide your cable into that and snug the nut and it is done and clean looking. ? Also from my experience, I would not angle the wires, I would make it strait through and strip as much of the jacket as possible. ?I am sure your drawing is not representing the actual amount to be stripped, but it should be more significant. ?Keeping it strait will make it a lot easier, I have done over 20 wires in one penetrator with a strait threaded bore. ?Hank On Sunday, May 14, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi,I have a number of penetrators to do on my lights & other items, & I'mlooking for the best materials for them.My design is as below. It is the base of my light housing.I have stripped a small section of wire that runs through the epoxy. I am not sure of the best material on the next 2 layers.I am looking at this marine silicone, to seal about an inch up the wiring jacket.http://www.selleys.co.nz/car-care/sealants/marine/Am thinking I will apply this silicone with a brush & then tidy things up & both protect the silicone & support the cable with a molded rubberized outer layer.I am not sure of a suitable moldable material for a marine environment.Am guessing?I will?need about the?same hardness as?a standard?o-ring.Any suggestions on the material or comments on the design thanks.Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 15 11:43:52 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 03:43:52 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials In-Reply-To: <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Hank, I need the two wires to angle off to the sides as they are soldered on to the corners of the LED. Yes I could thread the outside of the nozzle & put on a blue globe cable gland, I have some. Even though Carsten & Emile are advocates of the Blue globe, they do fit two on each penetration; one on the outside, one on the inside & I can't do that with the light fitting. I have come across a few likely candidates for the outer covering in the way of a mouldable polyurethane for marine applications...... https://www.aeromarineproducts.com/product/urethane-75a-encapsulating-compound/ This is an American product I can't locate here in N.Z.. Have found a local product ... http://www.electrolube.co.nz/products/encapsulation-resins-polyurethane/ur5118/polyurethane-potting-compound/ Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 15/05/2017, at 11:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > In an effort to keep it easy and clean looking, I would extend the penetrator body at the wet side to allow for threading on a compression fitting. Slide your cable into that and snug the nut and it is done and clean looking. Also from my experience, I would not angle the wires, I would make it strait through and strip as much of the jacket as possible. I am sure your drawing is not representing the actual amount to be stripped, but it should be more significant. Keeping it strait will make it a lot easier, I have done over 20 wires in one penetrator with a strait threaded bore. > Hank > > > On Sunday, May 14, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi, > I have a number of penetrators to do on my lights & other items, & I'm > looking for the best materials for them. > My design is as below. It is the base of my light housing. > I have stripped a small section of wire that runs through the epoxy. > I am not sure of the best material on the next 2 layers. > I am looking at this marine silicone, to seal about an inch up the wiring jacket. > http://www.selleys.co.nz/car-care/sealants/marine/ > Am thinking I will apply this silicone with a brush & then tidy things up & both > protect the silicone & support the cable with a molded rubberized outer layer. > I am not sure of a suitable moldable material for a marine environment. > Am guessing I will need about the same hardness as a standard o-ring. > Any suggestions on the material or comments on the design thanks. > Alan > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 15 19:40:17 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 11:40:17 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials In-Reply-To: References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ended up ordering this encapsulating 2 part flexible polyurethane, that is suitable for a marine environment. http://nz.element14.com/robnor/el110h-bk-250/encapsulant-2k-flex-pu-gp-marine/dp/1891122 Will see how it goes! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 16/05/2017, at 3:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks Hank, > I need the two wires to angle off to the sides as they are soldered on > to the corners of the LED. > Yes I could thread the outside of the nozzle & put on a blue globe cable gland, > I have some. Even though Carsten & Emile are advocates of the Blue globe, > they do fit two on each penetration; one on the outside, one on the inside & > I can't do that with the light fitting. > I have come across a few likely candidates for the outer covering in the way > of a mouldable polyurethane for marine applications...... > https://www.aeromarineproducts.com/product/urethane-75a-encapsulating-compound/ > This is an American product I can't locate here in N.Z.. Have found a local > product ... > http://www.electrolube.co.nz/products/encapsulation-resins-polyurethane/ur5118/polyurethane-potting-compound/ > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 15/05/2017, at 11:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, >> In an effort to keep it easy and clean looking, I would extend the penetrator body at the wet side to allow for threading on a compression fitting. Slide your cable into that and snug the nut and it is done and clean looking. Also from my experience, I would not angle the wires, I would make it strait through and strip as much of the jacket as possible. I am sure your drawing is not representing the actual amount to be stripped, but it should be more significant. Keeping it strait will make it a lot easier, I have done over 20 wires in one penetrator with a strait threaded bore. >> Hank >> >> >> On Sunday, May 14, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi, >> I have a number of penetrators to do on my lights & other items, & I'm >> looking for the best materials for them. >> My design is as below. It is the base of my light housing. >> I have stripped a small section of wire that runs through the epoxy. >> I am not sure of the best material on the next 2 layers. >> I am looking at this marine silicone, to seal about an inch up the wiring jacket. >> http://www.selleys.co.nz/car-care/sealants/marine/ >> Am thinking I will apply this silicone with a brush & then tidy things up & both >> protect the silicone & support the cable with a molded rubberized outer layer. >> I am not sure of a suitable moldable material for a marine environment. >> Am guessing I will need about the same hardness as a standard o-ring. >> Any suggestions on the material or comments on the design thanks. >> Alan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 15 20:06:21 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 00:06:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials In-Reply-To: References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I have good luck with windshield adhesive (poly urethane) ?I?used it as a liquid rubber. ?It is super tough and cheap.Hank On Monday, May 15, 2017 5:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ended up ordering this encapsulating 2 part flexible polyurethane, ?that is suitable for a marine environment.http://nz.element14.com/robnor/el110h-bk-250/encapsulant-2k-flex-pu-gp-marine/dp/1891122Will see how it goes!Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2017, at 3:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Hank,I need the two wires to angle off to the sides as they are soldered onto the corners of the LED.Yes I could thread the outside of the nozzle & put on a blue globe cable gland,I have some. Even though Carsten & Emile are advocates of the Blue globe,they do fit two on each penetration; one on the outside, one on the inside &I can't do that with the light fitting.? ?I have come across a few likely candidates for the outer covering in the wayof a mouldable polyurethane for marine applications......https://www.aeromarineproducts.com/product/urethane-75a-encapsulating-compound/This is an American product I can't locate here in N.Z.. Have found a localproduct ...http://www.electrolube.co.nz/products/encapsulation-resins-polyurethane/ur5118/polyurethane-potting-compound/Cheers Alan? Sent from my iPad On 15/05/2017, at 11:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,In an effort to keep it easy and clean looking, I would extend the penetrator body at the wet side to allow for ?threading on a compression fitting. ? Slide your cable into that and snug the nut and it is done and clean looking. ? Also from my experience, I would not angle the wires, I would make it strait through and strip as much of the jacket as possible. ?I am sure your drawing is not representing the actual amount to be stripped, but it should be more significant. ?Keeping it strait will make it a lot easier, I have done over 20 wires in one penetrator with a strait threaded bore. ?Hank On Sunday, May 14, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi,I have a number of penetrators to do on my lights & other items, & I'mlooking for the best materials for them.My design is as below. It is the base of my light housing.I have stripped a small section of wire that runs through the epoxy. I am not sure of the best material on the next 2 layers.I am looking at this marine silicone, to seal about an inch up the wiring jacket.http://www.selleys.co.nz/car-care/sealants/marine/Am thinking I will apply this silicone with a brush & then tidy things up & both protect the silicone & support the cable with a molded rubberized outer layer.I am not sure of a suitable moldable material for a marine environment.Am guessing?I will?need about the?same hardness as?a standard?o-ring.Any suggestions on the material or comments on the design thanks.Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 15 21:08:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 13:08:53 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials In-Reply-To: <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks, I will have a look at that it sounds like it would have the adhesion that's needed. This stuff is designed for encapsulating electronics in marine environments. I was going to use it over a thin layer of silicone but might not use the silicone now. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 16/05/2017, at 12:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I have good luck with windshield adhesive (poly urethane) I used it as a liquid rubber. It is super tough and cheap. > Hank > > > On Monday, May 15, 2017 5:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Ended up ordering this encapsulating 2 part flexible polyurethane, > that is suitable for a marine environment. > http://nz.element14.com/robnor/el110h-bk-250/encapsulant-2k-flex-pu-gp-marine/dp/1891122 > Will see how it goes! > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 16/05/2017, at 3:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > > Thanks Hank, > I need the two wires to angle off to the sides as they are soldered on > to the corners of the LED. > Yes I could thread the outside of the nozzle & put on a blue globe cable gland, > I have some. Even though Carsten & Emile are advocates of the Blue globe, > they do fit two on each penetration; one on the outside, one on the inside & > I can't do that with the light fitting. > I have come across a few likely candidates for the outer covering in the way > of a mouldable polyurethane for marine applications...... > https://www.aeromarineproducts.com/product/urethane-75a-encapsulating-compound/ > This is an American product I can't locate here in N.Z.. Have found a local > product ... > http://www.electrolube.co.nz/products/encapsulation-resins-polyurethane/ur5118/polyurethane-potting-compound/ > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 15/05/2017, at 11:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, >> In an effort to keep it easy and clean looking, I would extend the penetrator body at the wet side to allow for threading on a compression fitting. Slide your cable into that and snug the nut and it is done and clean looking. Also from my experience, I would not angle the wires, I would make it strait through and strip as much of the jacket as possible. I am sure your drawing is not representing the actual amount to be stripped, but it should be more significant. Keeping it strait will make it a lot easier, I have done over 20 wires in one penetrator with a strait threaded bore. >> Hank >> >> >> On Sunday, May 14, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi, >> I have a number of penetrators to do on my lights & other items, & I'm >> looking for the best materials for them. >> My design is as below. It is the base of my light housing. >> I have stripped a small section of wire that runs through the epoxy. >> I am not sure of the best material on the next 2 layers. >> I am looking at this marine silicone, to seal about an inch up the wiring jacket. >> http://www.selleys.co.nz/car-care/sealants/marine/ >> Am thinking I will apply this silicone with a brush & then tidy things up & both >> protect the silicone & support the cable with a molded rubberized outer layer. >> I am not sure of a suitable moldable material for a marine environment. >> Am guessing I will need about the same hardness as a standard o-ring. >> Any suggestions on the material or comments on the design thanks. >> Alan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 16 05:38:16 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 09:38:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials In-Reply-To: References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <83507100.330150.1494927496036@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,There is really no need for the silicone layer, in fact it might cause you grief trying to get another material to stick to it. ?If you need some testing done on the windshield stuff, let me know, I have some left over.Hank On Monday, May 15, 2017 7:10 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks, I will have a look at that it sounds like it would have theadhesion that's needed.This stuff is designed for encapsulating electronics in marineenvironments. I was going to use it over a thin layer of silicone butmight not use the silicone now.?Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2017, at 12:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I have good luck with windshield adhesive (poly urethane) ?I?used it as a liquid rubber. ?It is super tough and cheap.Hank On Monday, May 15, 2017 5:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ended up ordering this encapsulating 2 part flexible polyurethane, ?that is suitable for a marine environment.http://nz.element14.com/robnor/el110h-bk-250/encapsulant-2k-flex-pu-gp-marine/dp/1891122Will see how it goes!Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2017, at 3:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Hank,I need the two wires to angle off to the sides as they are soldered onto the corners of the LED.Yes I could thread the outside of the nozzle & put on a blue globe cable gland,I have some. Even though Carsten & Emile are advocates of the Blue globe,they do fit two on each penetration; one on the outside, one on the inside &I can't do that with the light fitting.? ?I have come across a few likely candidates for the outer covering in the wayof a mouldable polyurethane for marine applications......https://www.aeromarineproducts.com/product/urethane-75a-encapsulating-compound/This is an American product I can't locate here in N.Z.. Have found a localproduct ...http://www.electrolube.co.nz/products/encapsulation-resins-polyurethane/ur5118/polyurethane-potting-compound/Cheers Alan? Sent from my iPad On 15/05/2017, at 11:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,In an effort to keep it easy and clean looking, I would extend the penetrator body at the wet side to allow for ?threading on a compression fitting. ? Slide your cable into that and snug the nut and it is done and clean looking. ? Also from my experience, I would not angle the wires, I would make it strait through and strip as much of the jacket as possible. ?I am sure your drawing is not representing the actual amount to be stripped, but it should be more significant. ?Keeping it strait will make it a lot easier, I have done over 20 wires in one penetrator with a strait threaded bore. ?Hank On Sunday, May 14, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi,I have a number of penetrators to do on my lights & other items, & I'mlooking for the best materials for them.My design is as below. It is the base of my light housing.I have stripped a small section of wire that runs through the epoxy. I am not sure of the best material on the next 2 layers.I am looking at this marine silicone, to seal about an inch up the wiring jacket.http://www.selleys.co.nz/car-care/sealants/marine/Am thinking I will apply this silicone with a brush & then tidy things up & both protect the silicone & support the cable with a molded rubberized outer layer.I am not sure of a suitable moldable material for a marine environment.Am guessing?I will?need about the?same hardness as?a standard?o-ring.Any suggestions on the material or comments on the design thanks.Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 16 06:24:40 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 22:24:40 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials In-Reply-To: <83507100.330150.1494927496036@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> <83507100.330150.1494927496036@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <672C7A1B-7B73-46AF-B3C7-967F1DAA8318@yahoo.com> Hank, I see you can't sleep again! Thanks for the offer on the windshield polyurethane. My thought process went like this.... I had seen Doug's video where he had several failures using just the epoxy, so I was going to coat the epoxy with silicone to seal it better. On my Subconn connectors I noticed they have a thin layer of rubber vulcanised for about an inch up the wire casing; I wanted to mimic this but with silicone. Then the polyurethane outer was, as I have said, a cable support, protection for the silicone & to make it look tidy. It didn't necessarily have to adhere to the silicone. I need a material that will compress at a similar rate as the cable I am using, so that one surface doesn't pull away from the other. I might test the silicone against the polyurathane to see what adheres best to my wiring & aluminium light housing, & go from there. I will have at least 50 through hull fittings to do & am open to playing around with a few variations to get it right. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 16/05/2017, at 9:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > There is really no need for the silicone layer, in fact it might cause you grief trying to get another material to stick to it. If you need some testing done on the windshield stuff, let me know, I have some left over. > Hank > > > On Monday, May 15, 2017 7:10 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Thanks, I will have a look at that it sounds like it would have the > adhesion that's needed. > This stuff is designed for encapsulating electronics in marine > environments. I was going to use it over a thin layer of silicone but > might not use the silicone now. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 16/05/2017, at 12:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, >> I have good luck with windshield adhesive (poly urethane) I used it as a liquid rubber. It is super tough and cheap. >> Hank >> >> >> On Monday, May 15, 2017 5:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Ended up ordering this encapsulating 2 part flexible polyurethane, >> that is suitable for a marine environment. >> http://nz.element14.com/robnor/el110h-bk-250/encapsulant-2k-flex-pu-gp-marine/dp/1891122 >> Will see how it goes! >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 16/05/2017, at 3:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >> >> Thanks Hank, >> I need the two wires to angle off to the sides as they are soldered on >> to the corners of the LED. >> Yes I could thread the outside of the nozzle & put on a blue globe cable gland, >> I have some. Even though Carsten & Emile are advocates of the Blue globe, >> they do fit two on each penetration; one on the outside, one on the inside & >> I can't do that with the light fitting. >> I have come across a few likely candidates for the outer covering in the way >> of a mouldable polyurethane for marine applications...... >> https://www.aeromarineproducts.com/product/urethane-75a-encapsulating-compound/ >> This is an American product I can't locate here in N.Z.. Have found a local >> product ... >> http://www.electrolube.co.nz/products/encapsulation-resins-polyurethane/ur5118/polyurethane-potting-compound/ >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 15/05/2017, at 11:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> In an effort to keep it easy and clean looking, I would extend the penetrator body at the wet side to allow for threading on a compression fitting. Slide your cable into that and snug the nut and it is done and clean looking. Also from my experience, I would not angle the wires, I would make it strait through and strip as much of the jacket as possible. I am sure your drawing is not representing the actual amount to be stripped, but it should be more significant. Keeping it strait will make it a lot easier, I have done over 20 wires in one penetrator with a strait threaded bore. >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, May 14, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi, >>> I have a number of penetrators to do on my lights & other items, & I'm >>> looking for the best materials for them. >>> My design is as below. It is the base of my light housing. >>> I have stripped a small section of wire that runs through the epoxy. >>> I am not sure of the best material on the next 2 layers. >>> I am looking at this marine silicone, to seal about an inch up the wiring jacket. >>> http://www.selleys.co.nz/car-care/sealants/marine/ >>> Am thinking I will apply this silicone with a brush & then tidy things up & both >>> protect the silicone & support the cable with a molded rubberized outer layer. >>> I am not sure of a suitable moldable material for a marine environment. >>> Am guessing I will need about the same hardness as a standard o-ring. >>> Any suggestions on the material or comments on the design thanks. >>> Alan >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 16 08:11:08 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 12:11:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials In-Reply-To: <672C7A1B-7B73-46AF-B3C7-967F1DAA8318@yahoo.com> References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> <83507100.330150.1494927496036@mail.yahoo.com> <672C7A1B-7B73-46AF-B3C7-967F1DAA8318@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <314607448.455042.1494936668705@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Got it, there is a way better option than silicone for that. ?The product is call Goop or shoe goo. ?This stuff is amazing, it sticks much better than silicone and is super tough. ?I patch my waders with it, and you can not peel it off, no way no how.Hank On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 4:25 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I see you can't sleep again!Thanks for the offer on the windshield polyurethane.?My thought process went like this.... I had seen Doug's video where hehad several failures using just the epoxy, so I was going to coat the epoxywith silicone to seal it better. On my Subconn connectors I noticed theyhave a thin layer of rubber vulcanised for about an inch up the wire casing;I wanted to mimic this but with silicone. Then the polyurethane outer was,as I have said, a cable support, protection for the silicone & to make it looktidy. It didn't necessarily have to adhere to the silicone. I need a material?that will compress at a similar rate as the cable I amusing, so that one surface doesn't pull away from the other.I might test the silicone against the polyurathane to see what adheres bestto my wiring & aluminium light housing, & go from there.I will have at least 50 through hull fittings to do & am open to playing aroundwith a few variations to get it right.Cheers Alan? Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2017, at 9:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,There is really no need for the silicone layer, in fact it might cause you grief trying to get another material to stick to it. ?If you need some testing done on the windshield stuff, let me know, I have some left over.Hank On Monday, May 15, 2017 7:10 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks, I will have a look at that it sounds like it would have theadhesion that's needed.This stuff is designed for encapsulating electronics in marineenvironments. I was going to use it over a thin layer of silicone butmight not use the silicone now.?Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2017, at 12:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I have good luck with windshield adhesive (poly urethane) ?I?used it as a liquid rubber. ?It is super tough and cheap.Hank On Monday, May 15, 2017 5:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ended up ordering this encapsulating 2 part flexible polyurethane, ?that is suitable for a marine environment.http://nz.element14.com/robnor/el110h-bk-250/encapsulant-2k-flex-pu-gp-marine/dp/1891122Will see how it goes!Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2017, at 3:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Hank,I need the two wires to angle off to the sides as they are soldered onto the corners of the LED.Yes I could thread the outside of the nozzle & put on a blue globe cable gland,I have some. Even though Carsten & Emile are advocates of the Blue globe,they do fit two on each penetration; one on the outside, one on the inside &I can't do that with the light fitting.? ?I have come across a few likely candidates for the outer covering in the wayof a mouldable polyurethane for marine applications......https://www.aeromarineproducts.com/product/urethane-75a-encapsulating-compound/This is an American product I can't locate here in N.Z.. Have found a localproduct ...http://www.electrolube.co.nz/products/encapsulation-resins-polyurethane/ur5118/polyurethane-potting-compound/Cheers Alan? Sent from my iPad On 15/05/2017, at 11:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,In an effort to keep it easy and clean looking, I would extend the penetrator body at the wet side to allow for ?threading on a compression fitting. ? Slide your cable into that and snug the nut and it is done and clean looking. ? Also from my experience, I would not angle the wires, I would make it strait through and strip as much of the jacket as possible. ?I am sure your drawing is not representing the actual amount to be stripped, but it should be more significant. ?Keeping it strait will make it a lot easier, I have done over 20 wires in one penetrator with a strait threaded bore. ?Hank On Sunday, May 14, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi,I have a number of penetrators to do on my lights & other items, & I'mlooking for the best materials for them.My design is as below. It is the base of my light housing.I have stripped a small section of wire that runs through the epoxy. I am not sure of the best material on the next 2 layers.I am looking at this marine silicone, to seal about an inch up the wiring jacket.http://www.selleys.co.nz/car-care/sealants/marine/Am thinking I will apply this silicone with a brush & then tidy things up & both protect the silicone & support the cable with a molded rubberized outer layer.I am not sure of a suitable moldable material for a marine environment.Am guessing?I will?need about the?same hardness as?a standard?o-ring.Any suggestions on the material or comments on the design thanks.Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 16 16:49:24 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 08:49:24 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials In-Reply-To: <314607448.455042.1494936668705@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> <83507100.330150.1494927496036@mail.yahoo.com> <672C7A1B-7B73-46AF-B3C7-967F1DAA8318@yahoo.com> <314607448.455042.1494936668705@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6EFE64B1-1880-46AE-BEBC-CB643AABB37E@yahoo.com> Hank, thanks, I feel I am getting somewhere. I can't find Goop in N.Z. but have been looking at other marine products. You are right about the silicone not being ideal. 90 % of the marine adhesives I looked at are polyurethane based products. Although the outer moulded section will be polyurethane, sometimes mouldable products lose a bit of their adhesion with their "bulking" additives. Keith Gordon gave me a link to a product he has used for splicing underwater cables. You squirt the glue in to heat shrink tubing that is around the cables, then heat the ends of the heat shrink tubing to close it. I will do a bit more research on that today. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 17/05/2017, at 12:11 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ed wrote: > > Alan, > Got it, there is a way better option than silicone for that. The product is call Goop or shoe goo. This stuff is amazing, it sticks much better than silicone and is super tough. I patch my waders with it, and you can not peel it off, no way no how. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 4:25 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > I see you can't sleep again! > Thanks for the offer on the windshield polyurethane. > My thought process went like this.... I had seen Doug's video where he > had several failures using just the epoxy, so I was going to coat the epoxy > with silicone to seal it better. On my Subconn connectors I noticed they > have a thin layer of rubber vulcanised for about an inch up the wire casing; > I wanted to mimic this but with silicone. Then the polyurethane outer was, > as I have said, a cable support, protection for the silicone & to make it look > tidy. It didn't necessarily have to adhere to the silicone. I need a material > that will compress at a similar rate as the cable I am > using, so that one surface doesn't pull away from the other. > I might test the silicone against the polyurathane to see what adheres best > to my wiring & aluminium light housing, & go from there. > I will have at least 50 through hull fittings to do & am open to playing around > with a few variations to get it right. > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 16/05/2017, at 9:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, >> There is really no need for the silicone layer, in fact it might cause you grief trying to get another material to stick to it. If you need some testing done on the windshield stuff, let me know, I have some left over. >> Hank >> >> >> On Monday, May 15, 2017 7:10 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Thanks, I will have a look at that it sounds like it would have the >> adhesion that's needed. >> This stuff is designed for encapsulating electronics in marine >> environments. I was going to use it over a thin layer of silicone but >> might not use the silicone now. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 16/05/2017, at 12:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> I have good luck with windshield adhesive (poly urethane) I used it as a liquid rubber. It is super tough and cheap. >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> On Monday, May 15, 2017 5:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Ended up ordering this encapsulating 2 part flexible polyurethane, >>> that is suitable for a marine environment. >>> http://nz.element14.com/robnor/el110h-bk-250/encapsulant-2k-flex-pu-gp-marine/dp/1891122 >>> Will see how it goes! >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 16/05/2017, at 3:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>> >>> Thanks Hank, >>> I need the two wires to angle off to the sides as they are soldered on >>> to the corners of the LED. >>> Yes I could thread the outside of the nozzle & put on a blue globe cable gland, >>> I have some. Even though Carsten & Emile are advocates of the Blue globe, >>> they do fit two on each penetration; one on the outside, one on the inside & >>> I can't do that with the light fitting. >>> I have come across a few likely candidates for the outer covering in the way >>> of a mouldable polyurethane for marine applications...... >>> https://www.aeromarineproducts.com/product/urethane-75a-encapsulating-compound/ >>> This is an American product I can't locate here in N.Z.. Have found a local >>> product ... >>> http://www.electrolube.co.nz/products/encapsulation-resins-polyurethane/ur5118/polyurethane-potting-compound/ >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 15/05/2017, at 11:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Alan, >>>> In an effort to keep it easy and clean looking, I would extend the penetrator body at the wet side to allow for threading on a compression fitting. Slide your cable into that and snug the nut and it is done and clean looking. Also from my experience, I would not angle the wires, I would make it strait through and strip as much of the jacket as possible. I am sure your drawing is not representing the actual amount to be stripped, but it should be more significant. Keeping it strait will make it a lot easier, I have done over 20 wires in one penetrator with a strait threaded bore. >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sunday, May 14, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> I have a number of penetrators to do on my lights & other items, & I'm >>>> looking for the best materials for them. >>>> My design is as below. It is the base of my light housing. >>>> I have stripped a small section of wire that runs through the epoxy. >>>> I am not sure of the best material on the next 2 layers. >>>> I am looking at this marine silicone, to seal about an inch up the wiring jacket. >>>> http://www.selleys.co.nz/car-care/sealants/marine/ >>>> Am thinking I will apply this silicone with a brush & then tidy things up & both >>>> protect the silicone & support the cable with a molded rubberized outer layer. >>>> I am not sure of a suitable moldable material for a marine environment. >>>> Am guessing I will need about the same hardness as a standard o-ring. >>>> Any suggestions on the material or comments on the design thanks. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 16 17:05:06 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 14:05:06 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials Message-ID: <20170516140506.841895F9@m0087798.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 16 17:37:30 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 09:37:30 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials In-Reply-To: <20170516140506.841895F9@m0087798.ppops.net> References: <20170516140506.841895F9@m0087798.ppops.net> Message-ID: <947149FD-BA88-4772-888F-547A7B636C09@yahoo.com> Brian, thanks, I have been looking at the 3M selection chart this morning. http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_EU/EU-Marine/MarineSupplies/Solutions/BoatRepair/GeneralBoatRepairs/SealantAdhesiveGuide/ The 3M 5200 seems to tick all the boxes but I am not sure how flexible it is. Looking at things on a microscopic level; the plastic insulation on the wires & the wiring jacket are going to compress at depth, & I want the glue to move with it other wise the jacket or insulation may pull away from the glue. Also although I am going to support the cable coming out of the light with a moulded jacket, their may still be a bit of movement of the cable that could cause a breaking away from a rigid glue or the breaking of the hardened glue. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 17/05/2017, at 9:05 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, That 3M 5300 is a pretty miserable adhesive, bullet proof stuff ! You even will get ur ear stuck to the phone ordering it ! It's used extensively on sailboats under the waterline. The have fast cure and slow cure. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials > Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 08:49:24 +1200 > > Hank, > thanks, I feel I am getting somewhere. > I can't find Goop in N.Z. but have been looking at other marine products. > You are right about the silicone not being ideal. 90 % of the marine adhesives > I looked at are polyurethane based products. Although the outer moulded > section will be polyurethane, sometimes mouldable products lose a bit of their > adhesion with their "bulking" additives. > Keith Gordon gave me a link to a product he has used for splicing underwater > cables. You squirt the glue in to heat shrink tubing that is around the cables, then > heat the ends of the heat shrink tubing to close it. > I will do a bit more research on that today. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 17/05/2017, at 12:11 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ed wrote: > > Alan, > Got it, there is a way better option than silicone for that. The product is call Goop or shoe goo. This stuff is amazing, it sticks much better than silicone and is super tough. I patch my waders with it, and you can not peel it off, no way no how. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 4:25 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > I see you can't sleep again! > Thanks for the offer on the windshield polyurethane. > My thought process went like this.... I had seen Doug's video where he > had several failures using just the epoxy, so I was going to coat the epoxy > with silicone to seal it better. On my Subconn connectors I noticed they > have a thin layer of rubber vulcanised for about an inch up the wire casing; > I wanted to mimic this but with silicone. Then the polyurethane outer was, > as I have said, a cable support, protection for the silicone & to make it look > tidy. It didn't necessarily have to adhere to the silicone. I need a material > that will compress at a similar rate as the cable I am > using, so that one surface doesn't pull away from the other. > I might test the silicone against the polyurathane to see what adheres best > to my wiring & aluminium light housing, & go from there. > I will have at least 50 through hull fittings to do & am open to playing around > with a few variations to get it right. > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 16/05/2017, at 9:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > There is really no need for the silicone layer, in fact it might cause you grief trying to get another material to stick to it. If you need some testing done on the windshield stuff, let me know, I have some left over. > Hank > > > On Monday, May 15, 2017 7:10 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Thanks, I will have a look at that it sounds like it would have the > adhesion that's needed. > This stuff is designed for encapsulating electronics in marine > environments. I was going to use it over a thin layer of silicone but > might not use the silicone now. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 16/05/2017, at 12:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I have good luck with windshield adhesive (poly urethane) I used it as a liquid rubber. It is super tough and cheap. > Hank > > > On Monday, May 15, 2017 5:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Ended up ordering this encapsulating 2 part flexible polyurethane, > that is suitable for a marine environment. > http://nz.element14.com/robnor/el110h-bk-250/encapsulant-2k-flex-pu-gp-marine/dp/1891122 > Will see how it goes! > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 16/05/2017, at 3:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks Hank, > I need the two wires to angle off to the sides as they are soldered on > to the corners of the LED. > Yes I could thread the outside of the nozzle & put on a blue globe cable gland, > I have some. Even though Carsten & Emile are advocates of the Blue globe, > they do fit two on each penetration; one on the outside, one on the inside & > I can't do that with the light fitting. > I have come across a few likely candidates for the outer covering in the way > of a mouldable polyurethane for marine applications...... > https://www.aeromarineproducts.com/product/urethane-75a-encapsulating-compound/ > This is an American product I can't locate here in N.Z.. Have found a local > product ... > http://www.electrolube.co.nz/products/encapsulation-resins-polyurethane/ur5118/polyurethane-potting-compound/ > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 15/05/2017, at 11:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > In an effort to keep it easy and clean looking, I would extend the penetrator body at the wet side to allow for threading on a compression fitting. Slide your cable into that and snug the nut and it is done and clean looking. Also from my experience, I would not angle the wires, I would make it strait through and strip as much of the jacket as possible. I am sure your drawing is not representing the actual amount to be stripped, but it should be more significant. Keeping it strait will make it a lot easier, I have done over 20 wires in one penetrator with a strait threaded bore. > Hank > > > On Sunday, May 14, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi, > I have a number of penetrators to do on my lights & other items, & I'm > looking for the best materials for them. > My design is as below. It is the base of my light housing. > I have stripped a small section of wire that runs through the epoxy. > I am not sure of the best material on the next 2 layers. > I am looking at this marine silicone, to seal about an inch up the wiring jacket. > http://www.selleys.co.nz/car-care/sealants/marine/ > Am thinking I will apply this silicone with a brush & then tidy things up & both > protect the silicone & support the cable with a molded rubberized outer layer. > I am not sure of a suitable moldable material for a marine environment. > Am guessing I will need about the same hardness as a standard o-ring. > Any suggestions on the material or comments on the design thanks. > Alan > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 16 18:54:01 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 08:54:01 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials In-Reply-To: <6EFE64B1-1880-46AE-BEBC-CB643AABB37E@yahoo.com> References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> <83507100.330150.1494927496036@mail.yahoo.com> <672C7A1B-7B73-46AF-B3C7-967F1DAA8318@yahoo.com> <314607448.455042.1494936668705@mail.yahoo.com> <6EFE64B1-1880-46AE-BEBC-CB643AABB37E@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, Try searching for Shoe Goo - I gather it's the same stuff. I've got some off ebay in Australia and used with good success on wetsuit gloves for caving. Liquid Electrical Engineering Tape is also good if you brush it on in thin layers. Cheers, Steve On 17 May 2017 6:50 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hank, > thanks, I feel I am getting somewhere. > I can't find Goop in N.Z. but have been looking at other marine products. > You are right about the silicone not being ideal. 90 % of the marine > adhesives > I looked at are polyurethane based products. Although the outer moulded > section will be polyurethane, sometimes mouldable products lose a bit of > their > adhesion with their "bulking" additives. > Keith Gordon gave me a link to a product he has used for splicing > underwater > cables. You squirt the glue in to heat shrink tubing that is around the > cables, then > heat the ends of the heat shrink tubing to close it. > I will do a bit more research on that today. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 17/05/2017, at 12:11 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ed < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > Got it, there is a way better option than silicone for that. The product > is call Goop or shoe goo. This stuff is amazing, it sticks much better > than silicone and is super tough. I patch my waders with it, and you can > not peel it off, no way no how. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 4:25 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hank, > I see you can't sleep again! > Thanks for the offer on the windshield polyurethane. > My thought process went like this.... I had seen Doug's video where he > had several failures using just the epoxy, so I was going to coat the epoxy > with silicone to seal it better. On my Subconn connectors I noticed they > have a thin layer of rubber vulcanised for about an inch up the wire > casing; > I wanted to mimic this but with silicone. Then the polyurethane outer was, > as I have said, a cable support, protection for the silicone & to make it > look > tidy. It didn't necessarily have to adhere to the silicone. I need a > material > that will compress at a similar rate as the cable I am > using, so that one surface doesn't pull away from the other. > I might test the silicone against the polyurathane to see what adheres best > to my wiring & aluminium light housing, & go from there. > I will have at least 50 through hull fittings to do & am open to playing > around > with a few variations to get it right. > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 16/05/2017, at 9:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > There is really no need for the silicone layer, in fact it might cause you > grief trying to get another material to stick to it. If you need some > testing done on the windshield stuff, let me know, I have some left over. > Hank > > > On Monday, May 15, 2017 7:10 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Thanks, I will have a look at that it sounds like it would have the > adhesion that's needed. > This stuff is designed for encapsulating electronics in marine > environments. I was going to use it over a thin layer of silicone but > might not use the silicone now. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 16/05/2017, at 12:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > I have good luck with windshield adhesive (poly urethane) I used it as a > liquid rubber. It is super tough and cheap. > Hank > > > On Monday, May 15, 2017 5:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Ended up ordering this encapsulating 2 part flexible polyurethane, > that is suitable for a marine environment. > http://nz.element14.com/robnor/el110h-bk-250/encapsulant-2k-flex-pu-gp- > marine/dp/1891122 > Will see how it goes! > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 16/05/2017, at 3:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks Hank, > I need the two wires to angle off to the sides as they are soldered on > to the corners of the LED. > Yes I could thread the outside of the nozzle & put on a blue globe cable > gland, > I have some. Even though Carsten & Emile are advocates of the Blue globe, > they do fit two on each penetration; one on the outside, one on the inside > & > I can't do that with the light fitting. > I have come across a few likely candidates for the outer covering in > the way > of a mouldable polyurethane for marine applications...... > https://www.aeromarineproducts.com/product/urethane-75a- > encapsulating-compound/ > This is an American product I can't locate here in N.Z.. Have found a local > product ... > http://www.electrolube.co.nz/products/encapsulation-resins- > polyurethane/ur5118/polyurethane-potting-compound/ > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 15/05/2017, at 11:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > In an effort to keep it easy and clean looking, I would extend the > penetrator body at the wet side to allow for threading on a compression > fitting. Slide your cable into that and snug the nut and it is done and > clean looking. Also from my experience, I would not angle the wires, I > would make it strait through and strip as much of the jacket as possible. > I am sure your drawing is not representing the actual amount to be > stripped, but it should be more significant. Keeping it strait will make > it a lot easier, I have done over 20 wires in one penetrator with a strait > threaded bore. > Hank > > > On Sunday, May 14, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hi, > I have a number of penetrators to do on my lights & other items, & I'm > looking for the best materials for them. > My design is as below. It is the base of my light housing. > I have stripped a small section of wire that runs through the epoxy. > I am not sure of the best material on the next 2 layers. > I am looking at this marine silicone, to seal about an inch up the wiring > jacket. > http://www.selleys.co.nz/car-care/sealants/marine/ > Am thinking I will apply this silicone with a brush & then tidy things up > & both > protect the silicone & support the cable with a molded rubberized outer > layer. > I am not sure of a suitable moldable material for a marine environment. > Am guessing I will need about the same hardness as a standard o-ring. > Any suggestions on the material or comments on the design thanks. > Alan > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 16 20:03:48 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 12:03:48 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials In-Reply-To: References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> <83507100.330150.1494927496036@mail.yahoo.com> <672C7A1B-7B73-46AF-B3C7-967F1DAA8318@yahoo.com> <314607448.455042.1494936668705@mail.yahoo.com> <6EFE64B1-1880-46AE-BEBC-CB643AABB37E@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <583A0CF0-BEF9-43E2-8EC5-D726FC0E187C@yahoo.com> Thanks Steve, I found some in a local sports shop. I'll see how it likes the marine environment! Have changed tack a bit as I thought I should be nailing down exactly what cable I'm going to use so I know what material I am gluing to. G.L. wants self extinguishing sheathing / insulation & halogen free. Also can't be hydroscopic. Got my pressure sensors back from China (again) they now have the right fitting but still a sloppy fit. They sent them out with an over-sized o-ring that wouldn't fit, even though I supplied them a first stage regulator for testing. I am thinking that your original suggestion of an adapter would have been a better way to go! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 17/05/2017, at 10:54 AM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, > Try searching for Shoe Goo - I gather it's the same stuff. I've got some off ebay in Australia and used with good success on wetsuit gloves for caving. Liquid Electrical Engineering Tape is also good if you brush it on in thin layers. > > Cheers, > Steve > >> On 17 May 2017 6:50 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >> Hank, >> thanks, I feel I am getting somewhere. >> I can't find Goop in N.Z. but have been looking at other marine products. >> You are right about the silicone not being ideal. 90 % of the marine adhesives >> I looked at are polyurethane based products. Although the outer moulded >> section will be polyurethane, sometimes mouldable products lose a bit of their >> adhesion with their "bulking" additives. >> Keith Gordon gave me a link to a product he has used for splicing underwater >> cables. You squirt the glue in to heat shrink tubing that is around the cables, then >> heat the ends of the heat shrink tubing to close it. >> I will do a bit more research on that today. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 17/05/2017, at 12:11 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ed wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> Got it, there is a way better option than silicone for that. The product is call Goop or shoe goo. This stuff is amazing, it sticks much better than silicone and is super tough. I patch my waders with it, and you can not peel it off, no way no how. >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 4:25 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hank, >>> I see you can't sleep again! >>> Thanks for the offer on the windshield polyurethane. >>> My thought process went like this.... I had seen Doug's video where he >>> had several failures using just the epoxy, so I was going to coat the epoxy >>> with silicone to seal it better. On my Subconn connectors I noticed they >>> have a thin layer of rubber vulcanised for about an inch up the wire casing; >>> I wanted to mimic this but with silicone. Then the polyurethane outer was, >>> as I have said, a cable support, protection for the silicone & to make it look >>> tidy. It didn't necessarily have to adhere to the silicone. I need a material >>> that will compress at a similar rate as the cable I am >>> using, so that one surface doesn't pull away from the other. >>> I might test the silicone against the polyurathane to see what adheres best >>> to my wiring & aluminium light housing, & go from there. >>> I will have at least 50 through hull fittings to do & am open to playing around >>> with a few variations to get it right. >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 16/05/2017, at 9:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Alan, >>>> There is really no need for the silicone layer, in fact it might cause you grief trying to get another material to stick to it. If you need some testing done on the windshield stuff, let me know, I have some left over. >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> >>>> On Monday, May 15, 2017 7:10 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, I will have a look at that it sounds like it would have the >>>> adhesion that's needed. >>>> This stuff is designed for encapsulating electronics in marine >>>> environments. I was going to use it over a thin layer of silicone but >>>> might not use the silicone now. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 16/05/2017, at 12:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Alan, >>>>> I have good luck with windshield adhesive (poly urethane) I used it as a liquid rubber. It is super tough and cheap. >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, May 15, 2017 5:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ended up ordering this encapsulating 2 part flexible polyurethane, >>>>> that is suitable for a marine environment. >>>>> http://nz.element14.com/robnor/el110h-bk-250/encapsulant-2k-flex-pu-gp-marine/dp/1891122 >>>>> Will see how it goes! >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>>> On 16/05/2017, at 3:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks Hank, >>>>> I need the two wires to angle off to the sides as they are soldered on >>>>> to the corners of the LED. >>>>> Yes I could thread the outside of the nozzle & put on a blue globe cable gland, >>>>> I have some. Even though Carsten & Emile are advocates of the Blue globe, >>>>> they do fit two on each penetration; one on the outside, one on the inside & >>>>> I can't do that with the light fitting. >>>>> I have come across a few likely candidates for the outer covering in the way >>>>> of a mouldable polyurethane for marine applications...... >>>>> https://www.aeromarineproducts.com/product/urethane-75a-encapsulating-compound/ >>>>> This is an American product I can't locate here in N.Z.. Have found a local >>>>> product ... >>>>> http://www.electrolube.co.nz/products/encapsulation-resins-polyurethane/ur5118/polyurethane-potting-compound/ >>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>>> On 15/05/2017, at 11:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Alan, >>>>>> In an effort to keep it easy and clean looking, I would extend the penetrator body at the wet side to allow for threading on a compression fitting. Slide your cable into that and snug the nut and it is done and clean looking. Also from my experience, I would not angle the wires, I would make it strait through and strip as much of the jacket as possible. I am sure your drawing is not representing the actual amount to be stripped, but it should be more significant. Keeping it strait will make it a lot easier, I have done over 20 wires in one penetrator with a strait threaded bore. >>>>>> Hank >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sunday, May 14, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> I have a number of penetrators to do on my lights & other items, & I'm >>>>>> looking for the best materials for them. >>>>>> My design is as below. It is the base of my light housing. >>>>>> I have stripped a small section of wire that runs through the epoxy. >>>>>> I am not sure of the best material on the next 2 layers. >>>>>> I am looking at this marine silicone, to seal about an inch up the wiring jacket. >>>>>> http://www.selleys.co.nz/car-care/sealants/marine/ >>>>>> Am thinking I will apply this silicone with a brush & then tidy things up & both >>>>>> protect the silicone & support the cable with a molded rubberized outer layer. >>>>>> I am not sure of a suitable moldable material for a marine environment. >>>>>> Am guessing I will need about the same hardness as a standard o-ring. >>>>>> Any suggestions on the material or comments on the design thanks. >>>>>> Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 16 20:18:36 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 10:18:36 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials In-Reply-To: <583A0CF0-BEF9-43E2-8EC5-D726FC0E187C@yahoo.com> References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> <83507100.330150.1494927496036@mail.yahoo.com> <672C7A1B-7B73-46AF-B3C7-967F1DAA8318@yahoo.com> <314607448.455042.1494936668705@mail.yahoo.com> <6EFE64B1-1880-46AE-BEBC-CB643AABB37E@yahoo.com> <583A0CF0-BEF9-43E2-8EC5-D726FC0E187C@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, I'd be interested to see what you come up with on cable. My research indicated a polyurethane outer sheath was the way to go (and it's held up extremely well to the punishment my caving lights have seen) but that's also really expensive and hard to get. I previously used PVC and it held up well enough, slightly different application though. The China stuff - yep there's a lot of good stuff, but also a lot of bad stuff. Your experience is pretty bad though, usually they are a lot better than that. Cheers, Steve On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 10:03 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Steve, > I found some in a local sports shop. I'll see how it likes the > marine environment! > Have changed tack a bit as I thought I should be nailing down > exactly what cable I'm going to use so I know what material I am > gluing to. G.L. wants self extinguishing sheathing / insulation > & halogen free. Also can't be hydroscopic. > Got my pressure sensors back from China (again) they now have > the right fitting but still a sloppy fit. They sent them out with an > over-sized o-ring that wouldn't fit, even though I supplied them a > first stage regulator for testing. I am thinking that your original > suggestion of an adapter would have been a better way to go! > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 17/05/2017, at 10:54 AM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Alan, > Try searching for Shoe Goo - I gather it's the same stuff. I've got some > off ebay in Australia and used with good success on wetsuit gloves for > caving. Liquid Electrical Engineering Tape is also good if you brush it on > in thin layers. > > Cheers, > Steve > > On 17 May 2017 6:50 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hank, >> thanks, I feel I am getting somewhere. >> I can't find Goop in N.Z. but have been looking at other marine products. >> You are right about the silicone not being ideal. 90 % of the marine >> adhesives >> I looked at are polyurethane based products. Although the outer moulded >> section will be polyurethane, sometimes mouldable products lose a bit of >> their >> adhesion with their "bulking" additives. >> Keith Gordon gave me a link to a product he has used for splicing >> underwater >> cables. You squirt the glue in to heat shrink tubing that is around the >> cables, then >> heat the ends of the heat shrink tubing to close it. >> I will do a bit more research on that today. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 17/05/2017, at 12:11 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ed < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Alan, >> Got it, there is a way better option than silicone for that. The product >> is call Goop or shoe goo. This stuff is amazing, it sticks much better >> than silicone and is super tough. I patch my waders with it, and you can >> not peel it off, no way no how. >> Hank >> >> >> On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 4:25 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> I see you can't sleep again! >> Thanks for the offer on the windshield polyurethane. >> My thought process went like this.... I had seen Doug's video where he >> had several failures using just the epoxy, so I was going to coat the >> epoxy >> with silicone to seal it better. On my Subconn connectors I noticed they >> have a thin layer of rubber vulcanised for about an inch up the wire >> casing; >> I wanted to mimic this but with silicone. Then the polyurethane outer was, >> as I have said, a cable support, protection for the silicone & to make it >> look >> tidy. It didn't necessarily have to adhere to the silicone. I need a >> material >> that will compress at a similar rate as the cable I am >> using, so that one surface doesn't pull away from the other. >> I might test the silicone against the polyurathane to see what adheres >> best >> to my wiring & aluminium light housing, & go from there. >> I will have at least 50 through hull fittings to do & am open to playing >> around >> with a few variations to get it right. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 16/05/2017, at 9:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Alan, >> There is really no need for the silicone layer, in fact it might cause >> you grief trying to get another material to stick to it. If you need some >> testing done on the windshield stuff, let me know, I have some left over. >> Hank >> >> >> On Monday, May 15, 2017 7:10 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Thanks, I will have a look at that it sounds like it would have the >> adhesion that's needed. >> This stuff is designed for encapsulating electronics in marine >> environments. I was going to use it over a thin layer of silicone but >> might not use the silicone now. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 16/05/2017, at 12:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Alan, >> I have good luck with windshield adhesive (poly urethane) I used it as a >> liquid rubber. It is super tough and cheap. >> Hank >> >> >> On Monday, May 15, 2017 5:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Ended up ordering this encapsulating 2 part flexible polyurethane, >> that is suitable for a marine environment. >> http://nz.element14.com/robnor/el110h-bk-250/encapsulant-2k- >> flex-pu-gp-marine/dp/1891122 >> Will see how it goes! >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 16/05/2017, at 3:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Thanks Hank, >> I need the two wires to angle off to the sides as they are soldered on >> to the corners of the LED. >> Yes I could thread the outside of the nozzle & put on a blue globe cable >> gland, >> I have some. Even though Carsten & Emile are advocates of the Blue globe, >> they do fit two on each penetration; one on the outside, one on the >> inside & >> I can't do that with the light fitting. >> I have come across a few likely candidates for the outer covering in >> the way >> of a mouldable polyurethane for marine applications...... >> https://www.aeromarineproducts.com/product/urethane-75a-enca >> psulating-compound/ >> This is an American product I can't locate here in N.Z.. Have found a >> local >> product ... >> http://www.electrolube.co.nz/products/encapsulation-resins-p >> olyurethane/ur5118/polyurethane-potting-compound/ >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 15/05/2017, at 11:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Alan, >> In an effort to keep it easy and clean looking, I would extend the >> penetrator body at the wet side to allow for threading on a compression >> fitting. Slide your cable into that and snug the nut and it is done and >> clean looking. Also from my experience, I would not angle the wires, I >> would make it strait through and strip as much of the jacket as possible. >> I am sure your drawing is not representing the actual amount to be >> stripped, but it should be more significant. Keeping it strait will make >> it a lot easier, I have done over 20 wires in one penetrator with a strait >> threaded bore. >> Hank >> >> >> On Sunday, May 14, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Hi, >> I have a number of penetrators to do on my lights & other items, & I'm >> looking for the best materials for them. >> My design is as below. It is the base of my light housing. >> I have stripped a small section of wire that runs through the epoxy. >> I am not sure of the best material on the next 2 layers. >> I am looking at this marine silicone, to seal about an inch up the wiring >> jacket. >> http://www.selleys.co.nz/car-care/sealants/marine/ >> Am thinking I will apply this silicone with a brush & then tidy things up >> & both >> protect the silicone & support the cable with a molded rubberized outer >> layer. >> I am not sure of a suitable moldable material for a marine environment. >> Am guessing I will need about the same hardness as a standard o-ring. >> Any suggestions on the material or comments on the design thanks. >> Alan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 16 20:30:21 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 00:30:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials In-Reply-To: References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> <83507100.330150.1494927496036@mail.yahoo.com> <672C7A1B-7B73-46AF-B3C7-967F1DAA8318@yahoo.com> <314607448.455042.1494936668705@mail.yahoo.com> <6EFE64B1-1880-46AE-BEBC-CB643AABB37E@yahoo.com> <583A0CF0-BEF9-43E2-8EC5-D726FC0E187C@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <858757722.1108654.1494981021633@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Your idea to use a silicone or similar to back up the epoxy is a good idea. ?My epoxy multi wire connector will let teeny tiny air bubbles through when I exceed 1,000 psi. ?You will have to strip the wire back far enough for the silicone to stick to the conductor.Hank On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:18 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan,I'd be interested to see what you come up with on cable.? My?research?indicated a polyurethane outer sheath was the way to go (and it's held up extremely well to the punishment my caving lights have seen) but that's also really expensive and hard to get.? I previously used PVC and it held up well enough, slightly different application though. The China stuff -?yep there's a lot of good stuff, but also a lot of bad stuff.? Your experience is pretty bad though, usually they are a lot better than that. Cheers,Steve On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 10:03 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Steve,I found some in a local sports shop. I'll see how it likes themarine environment!? ?Have changed tack a bit as I thought I should be nailing downexactly what cable I'm going to use so I know what material I amgluing to. G.L. wants self extinguishing sheathing / insulation& halogen free. Also can't be hydroscopic.?? ?Got my pressure sensors back from China (again) they now havethe right fitting but still a sloppy fit. They sent them out with an?over-sized o-ring that wouldn't fit, even though I supplied them a?first stage regulator for testing. I am thinking that your originalsuggestion of an adapter would have been a better way to go!Alan? Sent from my iPad On 17/05/2017, at 10:54 AM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan,Try searching for Shoe Goo - I gather it's the same stuff. I've got some off ebay in Australia and used with good success on wetsuit gloves for caving. Liquid Electrical Engineering Tape is also good if you brush it on in thin layers. Cheers,Steve On 17 May 2017 6:50 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Hank,thanks, I feel I am getting somewhere.I can't find Goop in N.Z. but have been looking at other marine products.You are right about the silicone not being ideal. 90 % of the marine adhesivesI looked at are polyurethane based products.? Although the outer mouldedsection will be polyurethane, sometimes mouldable products lose a bit of theiradhesion with their "bulking" additives.Keith Gordon gave me a link to a product he has used for splicing underwatercables. You squirt the glue in to heat shrink tubing that is around the cables, thenheat the ends of the heat shrink tubing to close it.?I will do a bit more research on that today.Alan Sent from my iPad On 17/05/2017, at 12:11 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ed wrote: Alan,Got it, there is a way better option than silicone for that.? The product is call Goop or shoe goo.? This stuff is amazing, it sticks much better than silicone and is super tough.? I patch my waders with it, and you can not peel it off, no way no how.Hank On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 4:25 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I see you can't sleep again!Thanks for the offer on the windshield polyurethane.?My thought process went like this.... I had seen Doug's video where hehad several failures using just the epoxy, so I was going to coat the epoxywith silicone to seal it better. On my Subconn connectors I noticed theyhave a thin layer of rubber vulcanised for about an inch up the wire casing;I wanted to mimic this but with silicone. Then the polyurethane outer was,as I have said, a cable support, protection for the silicone & to make it looktidy. It didn't necessarily have to adhere to the silicone. I need a material?that will compress at a similar rate as the cable I amusing, so that one surface doesn't pull away from the other.I might test the silicone against the polyurathane to see what adheres bestto my wiring & aluminium light housing, & go from there.I will have at least 50 through hull fittings to do & am open to playing aroundwith a few variations to get it right.Cheers Alan? Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2017, at 9:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,There is really no need for the silicone layer, in fact it might cause you grief trying to get another material to stick to it.? If you need some testing done on the windshield stuff, let me know, I have some left over.Hank On Monday, May 15, 2017 7:10 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks, I will have a look at that it sounds like it would have theadhesion that's needed.This stuff is designed for encapsulating electronics in marineenvironments. I was going to use it over a thin layer of silicone butmight not use the silicone now.?Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2017, at 12:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I have good luck with windshield adhesive (poly urethane) ?I?used it as a liquid rubber.? It is super tough and cheap.Hank On Monday, May 15, 2017 5:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ended up ordering this encapsulating 2 part flexible polyurethane, ?that is suitable for a marine environment.http://nz.element14.com/robnor /el110h-bk-250/encapsulant-2k- flex-pu-gp-marine/dp/1891122Will see how it goes!Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2017, at 3:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Hank,I need the two wires to angle off to the sides as they are soldered onto the corners of the LED.Yes I could thread the outside of the nozzle & put on a blue globe cable gland,I have some. Even though Carsten & Emile are advocates of the Blue globe,they do fit two on each penetration; one on the outside, one on the inside &I can't do that with the light fitting.? ?I have come across a few likely candidates for the outer covering in the wayof a mouldable polyurethane for marine applications......https://www.aeromarineproducts .com/product/urethane-75a-enca psulating-compound/This is an American product I can't locate here in N.Z.. Have found a localproduct ...http://www.electrolube.co.nz/p roducts/encapsulation-resins-p olyurethane/ur5118/polyurethan e-potting-compound/Cheers Alan? Sent from my iPad On 15/05/2017, at 11:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,In an effort to keep it easy and clean looking, I would extend the penetrator body at the wet side to allow for ?threading on a compression fitting. ? Slide your cable into that and snug the nut and it is done and clean looking. ? Also from my experience, I would not angle the wires, I would make it strait through and strip as much of the jacket as possible.? I am sure your drawing is not representing the actual amount to be stripped, but it should be more significant.? Keeping it strait will make it a lot easier, I have done over 20 wires in one penetrator with a strait threaded bore. ?Hank On Sunday, May 14, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi,I have a number of penetrators to do on my lights & other items, & I'mlooking for the best materials for them.My design is as below. It is the base of my light housing.I have stripped a small section of wire that runs through the epoxy. I am not sure of the best material on the next 2 layers.I am looking at this marine silicone, to seal about an inch up the wiring jacket.http://www.selleys.co.nz/car-c are/sealants/marine/Am thinking I will apply this silicone with a brush & then tidy things up & both protect the silicone & support the cable with a molded rubberized outer layer.I am not sure of a suitable moldable material for a marine environment.Am guessing?I will?need about the?same hardness as?a standard?o-ring.Any suggestions on the material or comments on the design thanks.Alan ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 16 20:50:26 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 00:50:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials In-Reply-To: <858757722.1108654.1494981021633@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> <83507100.330150.1494927496036@mail.yahoo.com> <672C7A1B-7B73-46AF-B3C7-967F1DAA8318@yahoo.com> <314607448.455042.1494936668705@mail.yahoo.com> <6EFE64B1-1880-46AE-BEBC-CB643AABB37E@yahoo.com> <583A0CF0-BEF9-43E2-8EC5-D726FC0E187C@yahoo.com> <858757722.1108654.1494981021633@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2051059954.871502.1494982226030@mail.yahoo.com> I have just bought some of this stuff.http://eclecticproducts.com/products/e6000/e6100-industrial-adhesive.htmlE6100. It is supposed to be 2x stronger & 20x more flexible than polyurethane.It says it can be submerged in sea water but not sure to what extent.I was googling shoe goo & found?comment on a forum by a ?sailor who said shoe goo Had lasted 1 year on his shoes, shoe goo marine 2 years & E6100 6 years.?? Stephen, I have had fantastic service from a number of Chinese manufacturersbut with this one it was almost like the emails & service was scripted to wind me up.I have been looking at some marine pvc cable, will let you know what I get.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials Alan,Your idea to use a silicone or similar to back up the epoxy is a good idea. ?My epoxy multi wire connector will let teeny tiny air bubbles through when I exceed 1,000 psi. ?You will have to strip the wire back far enough for the silicone to stick to the conductor.Hank On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:18 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan,I'd be interested to see what you come up with on cable.? My?research?indicated a polyurethane outer sheath was the way to go (and it's held up extremely well to the punishment my caving lights have seen) but that's also really expensive and hard to get.? I previously used PVC and it held up well enough, slightly different application though. The China stuff -?yep there's a lot of good stuff, but also a lot of bad stuff.? Your experience is pretty bad though, usually they are a lot better than that. Cheers,Steve On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 10:03 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Steve,I found some in a local sports shop. I'll see how it likes themarine environment!? ?Have changed tack a bit as I thought I should be nailing downexactly what cable I'm going to use so I know what material I amgluing to. G.L. wants self extinguishing sheathing / insulation& halogen free. Also can't be hydroscopic.?? ?Got my pressure sensors back from China (again) they now havethe right fitting but still a sloppy fit. They sent them out with an?over-sized o-ring that wouldn't fit, even though I supplied them a?first stage regulator for testing. I am thinking that your originalsuggestion of an adapter would have been a better way to go!Alan? Sent from my iPad On 17/05/2017, at 10:54 AM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan,Try searching for Shoe Goo - I gather it's the same stuff. I've got some off ebay in Australia and used with good success on wetsuit gloves for caving. Liquid Electrical Engineering Tape is also good if you brush it on in thin layers. Cheers,Steve On 17 May 2017 6:50 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Hank,thanks, I feel I am getting somewhere.I can't find Goop in N.Z. but have been looking at other marine products.You are right about the silicone not being ideal. 90 % of the marine adhesivesI looked at are polyurethane based products.? Although the outer mouldedsection will be polyurethane, sometimes mouldable products lose a bit of theiradhesion with their "bulking" additives.Keith Gordon gave me a link to a product he has used for splicing underwatercables. You squirt the glue in to heat shrink tubing that is around the cables, thenheat the ends of the heat shrink tubing to close it.?I will do a bit more research on that today.Alan Sent from my iPad On 17/05/2017, at 12:11 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ed wrote: Alan,Got it, there is a way better option than silicone for that.? The product is call Goop or shoe goo.? This stuff is amazing, it sticks much better than silicone and is super tough.? I patch my waders with it, and you can not peel it off, no way no how.Hank On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 4:25 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I see you can't sleep again!Thanks for the offer on the windshield polyurethane.?My thought process went like this.... I had seen Doug's video where hehad several failures using just the epoxy, so I was going to coat the epoxywith silicone to seal it better. On my Subconn connectors I noticed theyhave a thin layer of rubber vulcanised for about an inch up the wire casing;I wanted to mimic this but with silicone. Then the polyurethane outer was,as I have said, a cable support, protection for the silicone & to make it looktidy. It didn't necessarily have to adhere to the silicone. I need a material?that will compress at a similar rate as the cable I amusing, so that one surface doesn't pull away from the other.I might test the silicone against the polyurathane to see what adheres bestto my wiring & aluminium light housing, & go from there.I will have at least 50 through hull fittings to do & am open to playing aroundwith a few variations to get it right.Cheers Alan? Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2017, at 9:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,There is really no need for the silicone layer, in fact it might cause you grief trying to get another material to stick to it.? If you need some testing done on the windshield stuff, let me know, I have some left over.Hank On Monday, May 15, 2017 7:10 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks, I will have a look at that it sounds like it would have theadhesion that's needed.This stuff is designed for encapsulating electronics in marineenvironments. I was going to use it over a thin layer of silicone butmight not use the silicone now.?Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2017, at 12:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I have good luck with windshield adhesive (poly urethane) ?I?used it as a liquid rubber.? It is super tough and cheap.Hank On Monday, May 15, 2017 5:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ended up ordering this encapsulating 2 part flexible polyurethane, ?that is suitable for a marine environment.http://nz.element14.com/robnor /el110h-bk-250/encapsulant-2k- flex-pu-gp-marine/dp/1891122Will see how it goes!Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2017, at 3:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Hank,I need the two wires to angle off to the sides as they are soldered onto the corners of the LED.Yes I could thread the outside of the nozzle & put on a blue globe cable gland,I have some. Even though Carsten & Emile are advocates of the Blue globe,they do fit two on each penetration; one on the outside, one on the inside &I can't do that with the light fitting.? ?I have come across a few likely candidates for the outer covering in the wayof a mouldable polyurethane for marine applications......https://www.aeromarineproducts .com/product/urethane-75a-enca psulating-compound/This is an American product I can't locate here in N.Z.. Have found a localproduct ...http://www.electrolube.co.nz/p roducts/encapsulation-resins-p olyurethane/ur5118/polyurethan e-potting-compound/Cheers Alan? Sent from my iPad On 15/05/2017, at 11:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,In an effort to keep it easy and clean looking, I would extend the penetrator body at the wet side to allow for ?threading on a compression fitting. ? Slide your cable into that and snug the nut and it is done and clean looking. ? Also from my experience, I would not angle the wires, I would make it strait through and strip as much of the jacket as possible.? I am sure your drawing is not representing the actual amount to be stripped, but it should be more significant.? Keeping it strait will make it a lot easier, I have done over 20 wires in one penetrator with a strait threaded bore. ?Hank On Sunday, May 14, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi,I have a number of penetrators to do on my lights & other items, & I'mlooking for the best materials for them.My design is as below. It is the base of my light housing.I have stripped a small section of wire that runs through the epoxy. I am not sure of the best material on the next 2 layers.I am looking at this marine silicone, to seal about an inch up the wiring jacket.http://www.selleys.co.nz/car-c are/sealants/marine/Am thinking I will apply this silicone with a brush & then tidy things up & both protect the silicone & support the cable with a molded rubberized outer layer.I am not sure of a suitable moldable material for a marine environment.Am guessing?I will?need about the?same hardness as?a standard?o-ring.Any suggestions on the material or comments on the design thanks.Alan ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 16 21:01:13 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 01:01:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials In-Reply-To: <858757722.1108654.1494981021633@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> <83507100.330150.1494927496036@mail.yahoo.com> <672C7A1B-7B73-46AF-B3C7-967F1DAA8318@yahoo.com> <314607448.455042.1494936668705@mail.yahoo.com> <6EFE64B1-1880-46AE-BEBC-CB643AABB37E@yahoo.com> <583A0CF0-BEF9-43E2-8EC5-D726FC0E187C@yahoo.com> <858757722.1108654.1494981021633@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1303266825.889298.1494982873971@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,Juries not out on?how I want to do that.I don't think I'll have the glue on the conductor, I will just embed the conductor & insulation& a portion of the cable sheath in the epoxy & then go over the aluminum fitting & cablewith the glue & then encapsulate it all in polyurethane potting mix.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials Alan,Your idea to use a silicone or similar to back up the epoxy is a good idea. ?My epoxy multi wire connector will let teeny tiny air bubbles through when I exceed 1,000 psi. ?You will have to strip the wire back far enough for the silicone to stick to the conductor.Hank On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:18 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan,I'd be interested to see what you come up with on cable.? My?research?indicated a polyurethane outer sheath was the way to go (and it's held up extremely well to the punishment my caving lights have seen) but that's also really expensive and hard to get.? I previously used PVC and it held up well enough, slightly different application though. The China stuff -?yep there's a lot of good stuff, but also a lot of bad stuff.? Your experience is pretty bad though, usually they are a lot better than that. Cheers,Steve On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 10:03 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Steve,I found some in a local sports shop. I'll see how it likes themarine environment!? ?Have changed tack a bit as I thought I should be nailing downexactly what cable I'm going to use so I know what material I amgluing to. G.L. wants self extinguishing sheathing / insulation& halogen free. Also can't be hydroscopic.?? ?Got my pressure sensors back from China (again) they now havethe right fitting but still a sloppy fit. They sent them out with an?over-sized o-ring that wouldn't fit, even though I supplied them a?first stage regulator for testing. I am thinking that your originalsuggestion of an adapter would have been a better way to go!Alan? Sent from my iPad On 17/05/2017, at 10:54 AM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan,Try searching for Shoe Goo - I gather it's the same stuff. I've got some off ebay in Australia and used with good success on wetsuit gloves for caving. Liquid Electrical Engineering Tape is also good if you brush it on in thin layers. Cheers,Steve On 17 May 2017 6:50 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Hank,thanks, I feel I am getting somewhere.I can't find Goop in N.Z. but have been looking at other marine products.You are right about the silicone not being ideal. 90 % of the marine adhesivesI looked at are polyurethane based products.? Although the outer mouldedsection will be polyurethane, sometimes mouldable products lose a bit of theiradhesion with their "bulking" additives.Keith Gordon gave me a link to a product he has used for splicing underwatercables. You squirt the glue in to heat shrink tubing that is around the cables, thenheat the ends of the heat shrink tubing to close it.?I will do a bit more research on that today.Alan Sent from my iPad On 17/05/2017, at 12:11 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ed wrote: Alan,Got it, there is a way better option than silicone for that.? The product is call Goop or shoe goo.? This stuff is amazing, it sticks much better than silicone and is super tough.? I patch my waders with it, and you can not peel it off, no way no how.Hank On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 4:25 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I see you can't sleep again!Thanks for the offer on the windshield polyurethane.?My thought process went like this.... I had seen Doug's video where hehad several failures using just the epoxy, so I was going to coat the epoxywith silicone to seal it better. On my Subconn connectors I noticed theyhave a thin layer of rubber vulcanised for about an inch up the wire casing;I wanted to mimic this but with silicone. Then the polyurethane outer was,as I have said, a cable support, protection for the silicone & to make it looktidy. It didn't necessarily have to adhere to the silicone. I need a material?that will compress at a similar rate as the cable I amusing, so that one surface doesn't pull away from the other.I might test the silicone against the polyurathane to see what adheres bestto my wiring & aluminium light housing, & go from there.I will have at least 50 through hull fittings to do & am open to playing aroundwith a few variations to get it right.Cheers Alan? Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2017, at 9:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,There is really no need for the silicone layer, in fact it might cause you grief trying to get another material to stick to it.? If you need some testing done on the windshield stuff, let me know, I have some left over.Hank On Monday, May 15, 2017 7:10 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks, I will have a look at that it sounds like it would have theadhesion that's needed.This stuff is designed for encapsulating electronics in marineenvironments. I was going to use it over a thin layer of silicone butmight not use the silicone now.?Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2017, at 12:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I have good luck with windshield adhesive (poly urethane) ?I?used it as a liquid rubber.? It is super tough and cheap.Hank On Monday, May 15, 2017 5:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ended up ordering this encapsulating 2 part flexible polyurethane, ?that is suitable for a marine environment.http://nz.element14.com/robnor /el110h-bk-250/encapsulant-2k- flex-pu-gp-marine/dp/1891122Will see how it goes!Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2017, at 3:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Hank,I need the two wires to angle off to the sides as they are soldered onto the corners of the LED.Yes I could thread the outside of the nozzle & put on a blue globe cable gland,I have some. Even though Carsten & Emile are advocates of the Blue globe,they do fit two on each penetration; one on the outside, one on the inside &I can't do that with the light fitting.? ?I have come across a few likely candidates for the outer covering in the wayof a mouldable polyurethane for marine applications......https://www.aeromarineproducts .com/product/urethane-75a-enca psulating-compound/This is an American product I can't locate here in N.Z.. Have found a localproduct ...http://www.electrolube.co.nz/p roducts/encapsulation-resins-p olyurethane/ur5118/polyurethan e-potting-compound/Cheers Alan? Sent from my iPad On 15/05/2017, at 11:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,In an effort to keep it easy and clean looking, I would extend the penetrator body at the wet side to allow for ?threading on a compression fitting. ? Slide your cable into that and snug the nut and it is done and clean looking. ? Also from my experience, I would not angle the wires, I would make it strait through and strip as much of the jacket as possible.? I am sure your drawing is not representing the actual amount to be stripped, but it should be more significant.? Keeping it strait will make it a lot easier, I have done over 20 wires in one penetrator with a strait threaded bore. ?Hank On Sunday, May 14, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi,I have a number of penetrators to do on my lights & other items, & I'mlooking for the best materials for them.My design is as below. It is the base of my light housing.I have stripped a small section of wire that runs through the epoxy. I am not sure of the best material on the next 2 layers.I am looking at this marine silicone, to seal about an inch up the wiring jacket.http://www.selleys.co.nz/car-c are/sealants/marine/Am thinking I will apply this silicone with a brush & then tidy things up & both protect the silicone & support the cable with a molded rubberized outer layer.I am not sure of a suitable moldable material for a marine environment.Am guessing?I will?need about the?same hardness as?a standard?o-ring.Any suggestions on the material or comments on the design thanks.Alan ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 16 21:27:40 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 19:27:40 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials In-Reply-To: AnMNd2Jk9nkt8AnMOdEMEM References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> <83507100.330150.1494927496036@mail.yahoo.com> <672C7A1B-7B73-46AF-B3C7-967F1DAA8318@yahoo.com> <314607448.455042.1494936668705@mail.yahoo.com> <6EFE64B1-1880-46AE-BEBC-CB643AABB37E@yahoo.com> <583A0CF0-BEF9-43E2-8EC5-D726FC0E187C@yahoo.com> <858757722.1108654.1494981021633@mail.yahoo.com> AnMNd2Jk9nkt8AnMOdEMEM Message-ID: MG Chemicals have a variety of epoxy potting and encapsulation compounds, and I think one of them is specifically marketed as being flexible, which might be exactly what you're looking for. Check their website. Sean On May 16, 2017 7:01:13 PM MDT, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hank,Juries not out on?how I want to do that.I don't think I'll have >the glue on the conductor, I will just embed the conductor & >insulation& a portion of the cable sheath in the epoxy & then go over >the aluminum fitting & cablewith the glue & then encapsulate it all in >polyurethane potting mix.Alan > >From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 12:37 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials > >Alan,Your idea to use a silicone or similar to back up the epoxy is a >good idea. ?My epoxy multi wire connector will let teeny tiny air >bubbles through when I exceed 1,000 psi. ?You will have to strip the >wire back far enough for the silicone to stick to the conductor.Hank > >On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:18 PM, Stephen Fordyce via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Hi Alan,I'd be interested to see what you come up with on cable.? >My?research?indicated a polyurethane outer sheath was the way to go >(and it's held up extremely well to the punishment my caving lights >have seen) but that's also really expensive and hard to get.? I >previously used PVC and it held up well enough, slightly different >application though. >The China stuff -?yep there's a lot of good stuff, but also a lot of >bad stuff.? Your experience is pretty bad though, usually they are a >lot better than that. >Cheers,Steve >On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 10:03 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >Thanks Steve,I found some in a local sports shop. I'll see how it likes >themarine environment!? ?Have changed tack a bit as I thought I should >be nailing downexactly what cable I'm going to use so I know what >material I amgluing to. G.L. wants self extinguishing sheathing / >insulation& halogen free. Also can't be hydroscopic.?? ?Got my pressure >sensors back from China (again) they now havethe right fitting but >still a sloppy fit. They sent them out with an?over-sized o-ring that >wouldn't fit, even though I supplied them a?first stage regulator for >testing. I am thinking that your originalsuggestion of an adapter would >have been a better way to go!Alan? > >Sent from my iPad >On 17/05/2017, at 10:54 AM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > >Hi Alan,Try searching for Shoe Goo - I gather it's the same stuff. I've >got some off ebay in Australia and used with good success on wetsuit >gloves for caving. Liquid Electrical Engineering Tape is also good if >you brush it on in thin layers. >Cheers,Steve >On 17 May 2017 6:50 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" > wrote: > >Hank,thanks, I feel I am getting somewhere.I can't find Goop in N.Z. >but have been looking at other marine products.You are right about the >silicone not being ideal. 90 % of the marine adhesivesI looked at are >polyurethane based products.? Although the outer mouldedsection will be >polyurethane, sometimes mouldable products lose a bit of theiradhesion >with their "bulking" additives.Keith Gordon gave me a link to a product >he has used for splicing underwatercables. You squirt the glue in to >heat shrink tubing that is around the cables, thenheat the ends of the >heat shrink tubing to close it.?I will do a bit more research on that >today.Alan > >Sent from my iPad >On 17/05/2017, at 12:11 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ed > wrote: > > >Alan,Got it, there is a way better option than silicone for that.? The >product is call Goop or shoe goo.? This stuff is amazing, it sticks >much better than silicone and is super tough.? I patch my waders with >it, and you can not peel it off, no way no how.Hank > >On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 4:25 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > >Hank,I see you can't sleep again!Thanks for the offer on the windshield >polyurethane.?My thought process went like this.... I had seen Doug's >video where hehad several failures using just the epoxy, so I was going >to coat the epoxywith silicone to seal it better. On my Subconn >connectors I noticed theyhave a thin layer of rubber vulcanised for >about an inch up the wire casing;I wanted to mimic this but with >silicone. Then the polyurethane outer was,as I have said, a cable >support, protection for the silicone & to make it looktidy. It didn't >necessarily have to adhere to the silicone. I need a material?that will >compress at a similar rate as the cable I amusing, so that one surface >doesn't pull away from the other.I might test the silicone against the >polyurathane to see what adheres bestto my wiring & aluminium light >housing, & go from there.I will have at least 50 through hull fittings >to do & am open to playing aroundwith a few variations to get it >right.Cheers Alan? > >Sent from my iPad >On 16/05/2017, at 9:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > >Alan,There is really no need for the silicone layer, in fact it might >cause you grief trying to get another material to stick to it.? If you >need some testing done on the windshield stuff, let me know, I have >some left over.Hank > >On Monday, May 15, 2017 7:10 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > >Thanks, I will have a look at that it sounds like it would have >theadhesion that's needed.This stuff is designed for encapsulating >electronics in marineenvironments. I was going to use it over a thin >layer of silicone butmight not use the silicone now.?Alan > >Sent from my iPad >On 16/05/2017, at 12:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > >Alan,I have good luck with windshield adhesive (poly urethane) ?I?used >it as a liquid rubber.? It is super tough and cheap.Hank > >On Monday, May 15, 2017 5:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > >Ended up ordering this encapsulating 2 part flexible polyurethane, >?that is suitable for a marine >environment.http://nz.element14.com/robnor >/el110h-bk-250/encapsulant-2k- flex-pu-gp-marine/dp/1891122Will see how >it goes!Alan > >Sent from my iPad >On 16/05/2017, at 3:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > >Thanks Hank,I need the two wires to angle off to the sides as they are >soldered onto the corners of the LED.Yes I could thread the outside of >the nozzle & put on a blue globe cable gland,I have some. Even though >Carsten & Emile are advocates of the Blue globe,they do fit two on each >penetration; one on the outside, one on the inside &I can't do that >with the light fitting.? ?I have come across a few likely candidates >for the outer covering in the wayof a mouldable polyurethane for marine >applications......https://www.aeromarineproducts >.com/product/urethane-75a-enca psulating-compound/This is an American >product I can't locate here in N.Z.. Have found a localproduct >...http://www.electrolube.co.nz/p roducts/encapsulation-resins-p >olyurethane/ur5118/polyurethan e-potting-compound/Cheers Alan? > >Sent from my iPad >On 15/05/2017, at 11:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > >Alan,In an effort to keep it easy and clean looking, I would extend the >penetrator body at the wet side to allow for ?threading on a >compression fitting. ? Slide your cable into that and snug the nut and >it is done and clean looking. ? Also from my experience, I would not >angle the wires, I would make it strait through and strip as much of >the jacket as possible.? I am sure your drawing is not representing the >actual amount to be stripped, but it should be more significant.? >Keeping it strait will make it a lot easier, I have done over 20 wires >in one penetrator with a strait threaded bore. ?Hank > >On Sunday, May 14, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > >Hi,I have a number of penetrators to do on my lights & other items, & >I'mlooking for the best materials for them.My design is as below. It is >the base of my light housing.I have stripped a small section of wire >that runs through the epoxy. I am not sure of the best material on the >next 2 layers.I am looking at this marine silicone, to seal about an >inch up the wiring jacket.http://www.selleys.co.nz/car-c >are/sealants/marine/Am thinking I will apply this silicone with a brush >& then tidy things up & both protect the silicone & support the cable >with a molded rubberized outer layer.I am not sure of a suitable >moldable material for a marine environment.Am guessing?I will?need >about the?same hardness as?a standard?o-ring.Any suggestions on the >material or comments on the design thanks.Alan >______________________________ _________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > > >______________________________ _________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > >______________________________ _________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > >______________________________ _________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > > >______________________________ _________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > >______________________________ _________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > > >______________________________ _________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > >______________________________ _________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > > >______________________________ _________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > >______________________________ _________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > > >______________________________ _________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > >______________________________ _________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 16 21:52:45 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 13:52:45 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials In-Reply-To: References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> <83507100.330150.1494927496036@mail.yahoo.com> <672C7A1B-7B73-46AF-B3C7-967F1DAA8318@yahoo.com> <314607448.455042.1494936668705@mail.yahoo.com> <6EFE64B1-1880-46AE-BEBC-CB643AABB37E@yahoo.com> <583A0CF0-BEF9-43E2-8EC5-D726FC0E187C@yahoo.com> <858757722.1108654.1494981021633@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1F451FF5-1717-4297-89D9-9910F9C3CB14@yahoo.com> Sean, thanks, I have ordered this product for encapsulating.. http://nz.element14.com/robnor/el110h-bk-250/encapsulant-2k-flex-pu-gp-marine/dp/1891122 It looks to tick all the boxes. I have a good glue / sealant on order. I am now looking at suitable electrical cable for use outside the hull. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 17/05/2017, at 1:27 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > MG Chemicals have a variety of epoxy potting and encapsulation compounds, and I think one of them is specifically marketed as being flexible, which might be exactly what you're looking for. Check their website. > > Sean > > >> On May 16, 2017 7:01:13 PM MDT, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hank, >> Juries not out on how I want to do that. >> I don't think I'll have the glue on the conductor, I will just embed the conductor & insulation >> & a portion of the cable sheath in the epoxy & then go over the aluminum fitting & cable >> with the glue & then encapsulate it all in polyurethane potting mix. >> Alan >> >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 12:37 PM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials >> >> Alan, >> Your idea to use a silicone or similar to back up the epoxy is a good idea. My epo! xy multi wire connector will let teeny tiny air bubbles through when I exceed 1,000 psi. You will have to strip the wire back far enough for the silicone to stick to the conductor. >> Hank >> >> >> On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:18 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> ! >> >> >> Hi Alan, >> I'd be interested to see what you come up with on cable. My research indicated a polyurethane outer sheath was the way to go (and it's held up extremely well to the punishment my caving lights have seen) but that's also really expensive and hard to get. I previously used PVC and it held up well enough, slightly different application though. >> >> The China stuff - yep there's a lot of good stuff, but also a lot of bad stuff. Your experience is pretty bad though, usually they are a lot better than that. >> >> Cheers, >> Steve >> >> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 10:03 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Thanks Steve, >> I found some in a local sports shop. I'll see how it likes the >> marine environment! >> Have changed tack a bit as I thought I should be nailing down >> exactly what cable I'm going to use so I know what material I am >> gluing to. G.L. wants self extinguishing sheathing / insulation >> & halogen free. Also can't be hydroscopic. >> Got my pressure sensors back from China (again) they now have >> the ! right fitting but still a sloppy fit. They sent them out with an >> over-sized o-ring that wouldn't fit, even though I supplied them a >> first stage regulator for testing. I am thinking that your original >> suggestion of an adapter would have been a better way to go! >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 17/05/2017, at 10:54 AM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi Alan, >>> Try searching for Shoe Goo - I gather it's the same stuff. I've got some off ebay in Australia and used with good success on wetsuit gloves for caving. Liquid Elect! rical Engineering Tape is also good if you brush it on in thin layers. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Steve >>> >>> On 17 May 2017 6:50 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >>> Hank, >>> thanks, I feel I am getting somewhere. >>> I can't find Goop in N.Z. but have been looking at other marine products. >>> You are right about the silicone not being ideal. 90 % of the marine adhesives >>> I looked at are polyurethane based products. Although the outer moulded >>> section will be polyurethane, sometimes mouldable products lose a bit of their >>> adhesion with their "bulking" additives. >>> Keith Gordon gave me a link to a product he has used for splicing underwater >>> cables. You squirt the glue in to heat shrink tubing that is around the cables, then >>> heat the ends of the heat shrink tubing to close it. >>> I will do a bit more research on that today. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 17/05/2017, at 12:11 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ed wrote: >>>> >>>> Alan, >>>> Got it, there is a way better option than silicone for that. The product is call Goop or shoe goo. This stuff is amazing, it sticks much better than silicone and is super tough. I patch my waders with it, and you can not peel it off, no way no how. >>>> Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 16 21:59:38 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 01:59:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials In-Reply-To: <1303266825.889298.1494982873971@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> <83507100.330150.1494927496036@mail.yahoo.com> <672C7A1B-7B73-46AF-B3C7-967F1DAA8318@yahoo.com> <314607448.455042.1494936668705@mail.yahoo.com> <6EFE64B1-1880-46AE-BEBC-CB643AABB37E@yahoo.com> <583A0CF0-BEF9-43E2-8EC5-D726FC0E187C@yahoo.com> <858757722.1108654.1494981021633@mail.yahoo.com> <1303266825.889298.1494982873971@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1351015884.1167749.1494986378268@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,If the other end of the cable is not perfectly sealed the water will migrate making the silicone useless. ?Hank On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 7:01 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,Juries not out on?how I want to do that.I don't think I'll have the glue on the conductor, I will just embed the conductor & insulation& a portion of the cable sheath in the epoxy & then go over the aluminum fitting & cablewith the glue & then encapsulate it all in polyurethane potting mix.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials Alan,Your idea to use a silicone or similar to back up the epoxy is a good idea. ?My epoxy multi wire connector will let teeny tiny air bubbles through when I exceed 1,000 psi. ?You will have to strip the wire back far enough for the silicone to stick to the conductor.Hank On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:18 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan,I'd be interested to see what you come up with on cable.? My?research?indicated a polyurethane outer sheath was the way to go (and it's held up extremely well to the punishment my caving lights have seen) but that's also really expensive and hard to get.? I previously used PVC and it held up well enough, slightly different application though. The China stuff -?yep there's a lot of good stuff, but also a lot of bad stuff.? Your experience is pretty bad though, usually they are a lot better than that. Cheers,Steve On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 10:03 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Steve,I found some in a local sports shop. I'll see how it likes themarine environment!? ?Have changed tack a bit as I thought I should be nailing downexactly what cable I'm going to use so I know what material I amgluing to. G.L. wants self extinguishing sheathing / insulation& halogen free. Also can't be hydroscopic.?? ?Got my pressure sensors back from China (again) they now havethe right fitting but still a sloppy fit. They sent them out with an?over-sized o-ring that wouldn't fit, even though I supplied them a?first stage regulator for testing. I am thinking that your originalsuggestion of an adapter would have been a better way to go!Alan? Sent from my iPad On 17/05/2017, at 10:54 AM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan,Try searching for Shoe Goo - I gather it's the same stuff. I've got some off ebay in Australia and used with good success on wetsuit gloves for caving. Liquid Electrical Engineering Tape is also good if you brush it on in thin layers. Cheers,Steve On 17 May 2017 6:50 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Hank,thanks, I feel I am getting somewhere.I can't find Goop in N.Z. but have been looking at other marine products.You are right about the silicone not being ideal. 90 % of the marine adhesivesI looked at are polyurethane based products.? Although the outer mouldedsection will be polyurethane, sometimes mouldable products lose a bit of theiradhesion with their "bulking" additives.Keith Gordon gave me a link to a product he has used for splicing underwatercables. You squirt the glue in to heat shrink tubing that is around the cables, thenheat the ends of the heat shrink tubing to close it.?I will do a bit more research on that today.Alan Sent from my iPad On 17/05/2017, at 12:11 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ed wrote: Alan,Got it, there is a way better option than silicone for that.? The product is call Goop or shoe goo.? This stuff is amazing, it sticks much better than silicone and is super tough.? I patch my waders with it, and you can not peel it off, no way no how.Hank On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 4:25 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I see you can't sleep again!Thanks for the offer on the windshield polyurethane.?My thought process went like this.... I had seen Doug's video where hehad several failures using just the epoxy, so I was going to coat the epoxywith silicone to seal it better. On my Subconn connectors I noticed theyhave a thin layer of rubber vulcanised for about an inch up the wire casing;I wanted to mimic this but with silicone. Then the polyurethane outer was,as I have said, a cable support, protection for the silicone & to make it looktidy. It didn't necessarily have to adhere to the silicone. I need a material?that will compress at a similar rate as the cable I amusing, so that one surface doesn't pull away from the other.I might test the silicone against the polyurathane to see what adheres bestto my wiring & aluminium light housing, & go from there.I will have at least 50 through hull fittings to do & am open to playing aroundwith a few variations to get it right.Cheers Alan? Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2017, at 9:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,There is really no need for the silicone layer, in fact it might cause you grief trying to get another material to stick to it.? If you need some testing done on the windshield stuff, let me know, I have some left over.Hank On Monday, May 15, 2017 7:10 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks, I will have a look at that it sounds like it would have theadhesion that's needed.This stuff is designed for encapsulating electronics in marineenvironments. I was going to use it over a thin layer of silicone butmight not use the silicone now.?Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2017, at 12:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I have good luck with windshield adhesive (poly urethane) ?I?used it as a liquid rubber.? It is super tough and cheap.Hank On Monday, May 15, 2017 5:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ended up ordering this encapsulating 2 part flexible polyurethane, ?that is suitable for a marine environment.http://nz.element14.com/robnor /el110h-bk-250/encapsulant-2k- flex-pu-gp-marine/dp/1891122Will see how it goes!Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2017, at 3:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Hank,I need the two wires to angle off to the sides as they are soldered onto the corners of the LED.Yes I could thread the outside of the nozzle & put on a blue globe cable gland,I have some. Even though Carsten & Emile are advocates of the Blue globe,they do fit two on each penetration; one on the outside, one on the inside &I can't do that with the light fitting.? ?I have come across a few likely candidates for the outer covering in the wayof a mouldable polyurethane for marine applications......https://www.aeromarineproducts .com/product/urethane-75a-enca psulating-compound/This is an American product I can't locate here in N.Z.. Have found a localproduct ...http://www.electrolube.co.nz/p roducts/encapsulation-resins-p olyurethane/ur5118/polyurethan e-potting-compound/Cheers Alan? Sent from my iPad On 15/05/2017, at 11:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,In an effort to keep it easy and clean looking, I would extend the penetrator body at the wet side to allow for ?threading on a compression fitting. ? Slide your cable into that and snug the nut and it is done and clean looking. ? Also from my experience, I would not angle the wires, I would make it strait through and strip as much of the jacket as possible.? I am sure your drawing is not representing the actual amount to be stripped, but it should be more significant.? Keeping it strait will make it a lot easier, I have done over 20 wires in one penetrator with a strait threaded bore. ?Hank On Sunday, May 14, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi,I have a number of penetrators to do on my lights & other items, & I'mlooking for the best materials for them.My design is as below. It is the base of my light housing.I have stripped a small section of wire that runs through the epoxy. I am not sure of the best material on the next 2 layers.I am looking at this marine silicone, to seal about an inch up the wiring jacket.http://www.selleys.co.nz/car-c are/sealants/marine/Am thinking I will apply this silicone with a brush & then tidy things up & both protect the silicone & support the cable with a molded rubberized outer layer.I am not sure of a suitable moldable material for a marine environment.Am guessing?I will?need about the?same hardness as?a standard?o-ring.Any suggestions on the material or comments on the design thanks.Alan ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 16 23:55:54 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 15:55:54 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials In-Reply-To: <1351015884.1167749.1494986378268@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> <83507100.330150.1494927496036@mail.yahoo.com> <672C7A1B-7B73-46AF-B3C7-967F1DAA8318@yahoo.com> <314607448.455042.1494936668705@mail.yahoo.com> <6EFE64B1-1880-46AE-BEBC-CB643AABB37E@yahoo.com> <583A0CF0-BEF9-43E2-8EC5-D726FC0E187C@yahoo.com> <858757722.1108654.1494981021633@mail.yahoo.com> <1303266825.889298.1494982873971@mail.yahoo.com> <1351015884.1167749.1494986378268@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <983C745D-9A3F-4B0C-9AE6-6505C4AD1A22@yahoo.com> Hank, it will be pretty close to the original drawing I posted. (below) The silicone is now going to be a different adhesive & the mouldable rubber is a marine encapsulating polyurathane. I may embed the wire jacket in the epoxy. If the cable was chopped the water could run down inside the insulation but would be pretty much stopped where the stripped section of the wire is embedded in the epoxy. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 17/05/2017, at 1:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > If the other end of the cable is not perfectly sealed the water will migrate making the silicone useless. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 7:01 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > Juries not out on how I want to do that. > I don't think I'll have the glue on the conductor, I will just embed the conductor & insulation > & a portion of the cable sheath in the epoxy & then go over the aluminum fitting & cable > with the glue & then encapsulate it all in polyurethane potting mix. > Alan > > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 12:37 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials > > Alan, > Your idea to use a silicone or similar to back up the epoxy is a good idea. My epoxy multi wire connector will let teeny tiny air bubbles through when I exceed 1,000 psi. You will have to strip the wire back far enough for the silicone to stick to the conductor. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:18 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Alan, > I'd be interested to see what you come up with on cable. My research indicated a polyurethane outer sheath was the way to go (and it's held up extremely well to the punishment my caving lights have seen) but that's also really expensive and hard to get. I previously used PVC and it held up well enough, slightly different application though. > > The China stuff - yep there's a lot of good stuff, but also a lot of bad stuff. Your experience is pretty bad though, usually they are a lot better than that. > > Cheers, > Steve > > On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 10:03 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks Steve, > I found some in a local sports shop. I'll see how it likes the > marine environment! > Have changed tack a bit as I thought I should be nailing down > exactly what cable I'm going to use so I know what material I am > gluing to. G.L. wants self extinguishing sheathing / insulation > & halogen free. Also can't be hydroscopic. > Got my pressure sensors back from China (again) they now have > the right fitting but still a sloppy fit. They sent them out with an > over-sized o-ring that wouldn't fit, even though I supplied them a > first stage regulator for testing. I am thinking that your original > suggestion of an adapter would have been a better way to go! > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 17/05/2017, at 10:54 AM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi Alan, >> Try searching for Shoe Goo - I gather it's the same stuff. I've got some off ebay in Australia and used with good success on wetsuit gloves for caving. Liquid Electrical Engineering Tape is also good if you brush it on in thin layers. >> >> Cheers, >> Steve >> >> On 17 May 2017 6:50 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >> Hank, >> thanks, I feel I am getting somewhere. >> I can't find Goop in N.Z. but have been looking at other marine products. >> You are right about the silicone not being ideal. 90 % of the marine adhesives >> I looked at are polyurethane based products. Although the outer moulded >> section will be polyurethane, sometimes mouldable products lose a bit of their >> adhesion with their "bulking" additives. >> Keith Gordon gave me a link to a product he has used for splicing underwater >> cables. You squirt the glue in to heat shrink tubing that is around the cables, then >> heat the ends of the heat shrink tubing to close it. >> I will do a bit more research on that today. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 17/05/2017, at 12:11 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ed wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> Got it, there is a way better option than silicone for that. The product is call Goop or shoe goo. This stuff is amazing, it sticks much better than silicone and is super tough. I patch my waders with it, and you can not peel it off, no way no how. >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 4:25 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hank, >>> I see you can't sleep again! >>> Thanks for the offer on the windshield polyurethane. >>> My thought process went like this.... I had seen Doug's video where he >>> had several failures using just the epoxy, so I was going to coat the epoxy >>> with silicone to seal it better. On my Subconn connectors I noticed they >>> have a thin layer of rubber vulcanised for about an inch up the wire casing; >>> I wanted to mimic this but with silicone. Then the polyurethane outer was, >>> as I have said, a cable support, protection for the silicone & to make it look >>> tidy. It didn't necessarily have to adhere to the silicone. I need a material >>> that will compress at a similar rate as the cable I am >>> using, so that one surface doesn't pull away from the other. >>> I might test the silicone against the polyurathane to see what adheres best >>> to my wiring & aluminium light housing, & go from there. >>> I will have at least 50 through hull fittings to do & am open to playing around >>> with a few variations to get it right. >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 16/05/2017, at 9:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Alan, >>>> There is really no need for the silicone layer, in fact it might cause you grief trying to get another material to stick to it. If you need some testing done on the windshield stuff, let me know, I have some left over. >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> >>>> On Monday, May 15, 2017 7:10 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, I will have a look at that it sounds like it would have the >>>> adhesion that's needed. >>>> This stuff is designed for encapsulating electronics in marine >>>> environments. I was going to use it over a thin layer of silicone but >>>> might not use the silicone now. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 16/05/2017, at 12:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Alan, >>>>> I have good luck with windshield adhesive (poly urethane) I used it as a liquid rubber. It is super tough and cheap. >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, May 15, 2017 5:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ended up ordering this encapsulating 2 part flexible polyurethane, >>>>> that is suitable for a marine environment. >>>>> http://nz.element14.com/robnor /el110h-bk-250/encapsulant-2k- flex-pu-gp-marine/dp/1891122 >>>>> Will see how it goes! >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>>> On 16/05/2017, at 3:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks Hank, >>>>> I need the two wires to angle off to the sides as they are soldered on >>>>> to the corners of the LED. >>>>> Yes I could thread the outside of the nozzle & put on a blue globe cable gland, >>>>> I have some. Even though Carsten & Emile are advocates of the Blue globe, >>>>> they do fit two on each penetration; one on the outside, one on the inside & >>>>> I can't do that with the light fitting. >>>>> I have come across a few likely candidates for the outer covering in the way >>>>> of a mouldable polyurethane for marine applications...... >>>>> https://www.aeromarineproducts .com/product/urethane-75a-enca psulating-compound/ >>>>> This is an American product I can't locate here in N.Z.. Have found a local >>>>> product ... >>>>> http://www.electrolube.co.nz/p roducts/encapsulation-resins-p olyurethane/ur5118/polyurethan e-potting-compound/ >>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>>> On 15/05/2017, at 11:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Alan, >>>>>> In an effort to keep it easy and clean looking, I would extend the penetrator body at the wet side to allow for threading on a compression fitting. Slide your cable into that and snug the nut and it is done and clean looking. Also from my experience, I would not angle the wires, I would make it strait through and strip as much of the jacket as possible. I am sure your drawing is not representing the actual amount to be stripped, but it should be more significant. Keeping it strait will make it a lot easier, I have done over 20 wires in one penetrator with a strait threaded bore. >>>>>> Hank >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sunday, May 14, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> I have a number of penetrators to do on my lights & other items, & I'm >>>>>> looking for the best materials for them. >>>>>> My design is as below. It is the base of my light housing. >>>>>> I have stripped a small section of wire that runs through the epoxy. >>>>>> I am not sure of the best material on the next 2 layers. >>>>>> I am looking at this marine silicone, to seal about an inch up the wiring jacket. >>>>>> http://www.selleys.co.nz/car-c are/sealants/marine/ >>>>>> Am thinking I will apply this silicone with a brush & then tidy things up & both >>>>>> protect the silicone & support the cable with a molded rubberized outer layer. >>>>>> I am not sure of a suitable moldable material for a marine environment. >>>>>> Am guessing I will need about the same hardness as a standard o-ring. >>>>>> Any suggestions on the material or comments on the design thanks. >>>>>> Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: penetrator materials.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 223819 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 17 08:02:52 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 12:02:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials In-Reply-To: <1351015884.1167749.1494986378268@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> <83507100.330150.1494927496036@mail.yahoo.com> <672C7A1B-7B73-46AF-B3C7-967F1DAA8318@yahoo.com> <314607448.455042.1494936668705@mail.yahoo.com> <6EFE64B1-1880-46AE-BEBC-CB643AABB37E@yahoo.com> <583A0CF0-BEF9-43E2-8EC5-D726FC0E187C@yahoo.com> <858757722.1108654.1494981021633@mail.yahoo.com> <1303266825.889298.1494982873971@mail.yahoo.com> <1351015884.1167749.1494986378268@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <919820548.1462017.1495022572662@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,That is not correct, the epoxy will not stop the water past 1,000 psi?completely. ? ?If the wires are stripped back further so the sealant creates an extra layer against the conductor, that will certainly help. ?I tested my penetrators by screwing them into a pipe and applying air pressure inside the pipe and the ?low pressure side in water. ?There were super tiny bubbles coming out of the wire ends past 1,000 psi. ?That means the air got past the epoxy and escaped between the conductor and the jacket. ? ?Hank On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:03 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,If the other end of the cable is not perfectly sealed the water will migrate making the silicone useless. ?Hank On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 7:01 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,Juries not out on?how I want to do that.I don't think I'll have the glue on the conductor, I will just embed the conductor & insulation& a portion of the cable sheath in the epoxy & then go over the aluminum fitting & cablewith the glue & then encapsulate it all in polyurethane potting mix.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials Alan,Your idea to use a silicone or similar to back up the epoxy is a good idea. ?My epoxy multi wire connector will let teeny tiny air bubbles through when I exceed 1,000 psi. ?You will have to strip the wire back far enough for the silicone to stick to the conductor.Hank On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:18 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan,I'd be interested to see what you come up with on cable.? My?research?indicated a polyurethane outer sheath was the way to go (and it's held up extremely well to the punishment my caving lights have seen) but that's also really expensive and hard to get.? I previously used PVC and it held up well enough, slightly different application though. The China stuff -?yep there's a lot of good stuff, but also a lot of bad stuff.? Your experience is pretty bad though, usually they are a lot better than that. Cheers,Steve On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 10:03 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Steve,I found some in a local sports shop. I'll see how it likes themarine environment!? ?Have changed tack a bit as I thought I should be nailing downexactly what cable I'm going to use so I know what material I amgluing to. G.L. wants self extinguishing sheathing / insulation& halogen free. Also can't be hydroscopic.?? ?Got my pressure sensors back from China (again) they now havethe right fitting but still a sloppy fit. They sent them out with an?over-sized o-ring that wouldn't fit, even though I supplied them a?first stage regulator for testing. I am thinking that your originalsuggestion of an adapter would have been a better way to go!Alan? Sent from my iPad On 17/05/2017, at 10:54 AM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan,Try searching for Shoe Goo - I gather it's the same stuff. I've got some off ebay in Australia and used with good success on wetsuit gloves for caving. Liquid Electrical Engineering Tape is also good if you brush it on in thin layers. Cheers,Steve On 17 May 2017 6:50 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Hank,thanks, I feel I am getting somewhere.I can't find Goop in N.Z. but have been looking at other marine products.You are right about the silicone not being ideal. 90 % of the marine adhesivesI looked at are polyurethane based products.? Although the outer mouldedsection will be polyurethane, sometimes mouldable products lose a bit of theiradhesion with their "bulking" additives.Keith Gordon gave me a link to a product he has used for splicing underwatercables. You squirt the glue in to heat shrink tubing that is around the cables, thenheat the ends of the heat shrink tubing to close it.?I will do a bit more research on that today.Alan Sent from my iPad On 17/05/2017, at 12:11 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ed wrote: Alan,Got it, there is a way better option than silicone for that.? The product is call Goop or shoe goo.? This stuff is amazing, it sticks much better than silicone and is super tough.? I patch my waders with it, and you can not peel it off, no way no how.Hank On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 4:25 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I see you can't sleep again!Thanks for the offer on the windshield polyurethane.?My thought process went like this.... I had seen Doug's video where hehad several failures using just the epoxy, so I was going to coat the epoxywith silicone to seal it better. On my Subconn connectors I noticed theyhave a thin layer of rubber vulcanised for about an inch up the wire casing;I wanted to mimic this but with silicone. Then the polyurethane outer was,as I have said, a cable support, protection for the silicone & to make it looktidy. It didn't necessarily have to adhere to the silicone. I need a material?that will compress at a similar rate as the cable I amusing, so that one surface doesn't pull away from the other.I might test the silicone against the polyurathane to see what adheres bestto my wiring & aluminium light housing, & go from there.I will have at least 50 through hull fittings to do & am open to playing aroundwith a few variations to get it right.Cheers Alan? Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2017, at 9:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,There is really no need for the silicone layer, in fact it might cause you grief trying to get another material to stick to it.? If you need some testing done on the windshield stuff, let me know, I have some left over.Hank On Monday, May 15, 2017 7:10 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks, I will have a look at that it sounds like it would have theadhesion that's needed.This stuff is designed for encapsulating electronics in marineenvironments. I was going to use it over a thin layer of silicone butmight not use the silicone now.?Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2017, at 12:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I have good luck with windshield adhesive (poly urethane) ?I?used it as a liquid rubber.? It is super tough and cheap.Hank On Monday, May 15, 2017 5:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ended up ordering this encapsulating 2 part flexible polyurethane, ?that is suitable for a marine environment.http://nz.element14.com/robnor /el110h-bk-250/encapsulant-2k- flex-pu-gp-marine/dp/1891122Will see how it goes!Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2017, at 3:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Hank,I need the two wires to angle off to the sides as they are soldered onto the corners of the LED.Yes I could thread the outside of the nozzle & put on a blue globe cable gland,I have some. Even though Carsten & Emile are advocates of the Blue globe,they do fit two on each penetration; one on the outside, one on the inside &I can't do that with the light fitting.? ?I have come across a few likely candidates for the outer covering in the wayof a mouldable polyurethane for marine applications......https://www.aeromarineproducts .com/product/urethane-75a-enca psulating-compound/This is an American product I can't locate here in N.Z.. Have found a localproduct ...http://www.electrolube.co.nz/p roducts/encapsulation-resins-p olyurethane/ur5118/polyurethan e-potting-compound/Cheers Alan? Sent from my iPad On 15/05/2017, at 11:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,In an effort to keep it easy and clean looking, I would extend the penetrator body at the wet side to allow for ?threading on a compression fitting. ? Slide your cable into that and snug the nut and it is done and clean looking. ? Also from my experience, I would not angle the wires, I would make it strait through and strip as much of the jacket as possible.? I am sure your drawing is not representing the actual amount to be stripped, but it should be more significant.? Keeping it strait will make it a lot easier, I have done over 20 wires in one penetrator with a strait threaded bore. ?Hank On Sunday, May 14, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi,I have a number of penetrators to do on my lights & other items, & I'mlooking for the best materials for them.My design is as below. It is the base of my light housing.I have stripped a small section of wire that runs through the epoxy. I am not sure of the best material on the next 2 layers.I am looking at this marine silicone, to seal about an inch up the wiring jacket.http://www.selleys.co.nz/car-c are/sealants/marine/Am thinking I will apply this silicone with a brush & then tidy things up & both protect the silicone & support the cable with a molded rubberized outer layer.I am not sure of a suitable moldable material for a marine environment.Am guessing?I will?need about the?same hardness as?a standard?o-ring.Any suggestions on the material or comments on the design thanks.Alan ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 17 15:55:51 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 07:55:51 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials In-Reply-To: <919820548.1462017.1495022572662@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> <83507100.330150.1494927496036@mail.yahoo.com> <672C7A1B-7B73-46AF-B3C7-967F1DAA8318@yahoo.com> <314607448.455042.1494936668705@mail.yahoo.com> <6EFE64B1-1880-46AE-BEBC-CB643AABB37E@yahoo.com> <583A0CF0-BEF9-43E2-8EC5-D726FC0E187C@yahoo.com> <858757722.1108654.1494981021633@mail.yahoo.com> <1303266825.889298.1494982873971@mail.yahoo.com> <1351015884.1167749.1494986378268@mail.yahoo.com> <919820548.1462017.1495022572662@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, If I cover everything with the glue & then the polyurethane, I won't need to rely on the epoxy for sealing. If the cable was cut then the system would rely on the epoxy as a back up. At that stage I could put up with a temporary dribble; the electrics would be shorting out as well. I will be wary of stripping back enough of the wiring sheath, but failure can also occur between the epoxy & wall of the penetrator. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 18/05/2017, at 12:02 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > That is not correct, the epoxy will not stop the water past 1,000 psi completely. If the wires are stripped back further so the sealant creates an extra layer against the conductor, that will certainly help. I tested my penetrators by screwing them into a pipe and applying air pressure inside the pipe and the low pressure side in water. There were super tiny bubbles coming out of the wire ends past 1,000 psi. That means the air got past the epoxy and escaped between the conductor and the jacket. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:03 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > If the other end of the cable is not perfectly sealed the water will migrate making the silicone useless. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 7:01 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > Juries not out on how I want to do that. > I don't think I'll have the glue on the conductor, I will just embed the conductor & insulation > & a portion of the cable sheath in the epoxy & then go over the aluminum fitting & cable > with the glue & then encapsulate it all in polyurethane potting mix. > Alan > > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 12:37 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials > > Alan, > Your idea to use a silicone or similar to back up the epoxy is a good idea. My epoxy multi wire connector will let teeny tiny air bubbles through when I exceed 1,000 psi. You will have to strip the wire back far enough for the silicone to stick to the conductor. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:18 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Alan, > I'd be interested to see what you come up with on cable. My research indicated a polyurethane outer sheath was the way to go (and it's held up extremely well to the punishment my caving lights have seen) but that's also really expensive and hard to get. I previously used PVC and it held up well enough, slightly different application though. > > The China stuff - yep there's a lot of good stuff, but also a lot of bad stuff. Your experience is pretty bad though, usually they are a lot better than that. > > Cheers, > Steve > > On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 10:03 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks Steve, > I found some in a local sports shop. I'll see how it likes the > marine environment! > Have changed tack a bit as I thought I should be nailing down > exactly what cable I'm going to use so I know what material I am > gluing to. G.L. wants self extinguishing sheathing / insulation > & halogen free. Also can't be hydroscopic. > Got my pressure sensors back from China (again) they now have > the right fitting but still a sloppy fit. They sent them out with an > over-sized o-ring that wouldn't fit, even though I supplied them a > first stage regulator for testing. I am thinking that your original > suggestion of an adapter would have been a better way to go! > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 17/05/2017, at 10:54 AM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi Alan, >> Try searching for Shoe Goo - I gather it's the same stuff. I've got some off ebay in Australia and used with good success on wetsuit gloves for caving. Liquid Electrical Engineering Tape is also good if you brush it on in thin layers. >> >> Cheers, >> Steve >> >> On 17 May 2017 6:50 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >> Hank, >> thanks, I feel I am getting somewhere. >> I can't find Goop in N.Z. but have been looking at other marine products. >> You are right about the silicone not being ideal. 90 % of the marine adhesives >> I looked at are polyurethane based products. Although the outer moulded >> section will be polyurethane, sometimes mouldable products lose a bit of their >> adhesion with their "bulking" additives. >> Keith Gordon gave me a link to a product he has used for splicing underwater >> cables. You squirt the glue in to heat shrink tubing that is around the cables, then >> heat the ends of the heat shrink tubing to close it. >> I will do a bit more research on that today. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 17/05/2017, at 12:11 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ed wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> Got it, there is a way better option than silicone for that. The product is call Goop or shoe goo. This stuff is amazing, it sticks much better than silicone and is super tough. I patch my waders with it, and you can not peel it off, no way no how. >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 4:25 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hank, >>> I see you can't sleep again! >>> Thanks for the offer on the windshield polyurethane. >>> My thought process went like this.... I had seen Doug's video where he >>> had several failures using just the epoxy, so I was going to coat the epoxy >>> with silicone to seal it better. On my Subconn connectors I noticed they >>> have a thin layer of rubber vulcanised for about an inch up the wire casing; >>> I wanted to mimic this but with silicone. Then the polyurethane outer was, >>> as I have said, a cable support, protection for the silicone & to make it look >>> tidy. It didn't necessarily have to adhere to the silicone. I need a material >>> that will compress at a similar rate as the cable I am >>> using, so that one surface doesn't pull away from the other. >>> I might test the silicone against the polyurathane to see what adheres best >>> to my wiring & aluminium light housing, & go from there. >>> I will have at least 50 through hull fittings to do & am open to playing around >>> with a few variations to get it right. >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 16/05/2017, at 9:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Alan, >>>> There is really no need for the silicone layer, in fact it might cause you grief trying to get another material to stick to it. If you need some testing done on the windshield stuff, let me know, I have some left over. >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> >>>> On Monday, May 15, 2017 7:10 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, I will have a look at that it sounds like it would have the >>>> adhesion that's needed. >>>> This stuff is designed for encapsulating electronics in marine >>>> environments. I was going to use it over a thin layer of silicone but >>>> might not use the silicone now. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 16/05/2017, at 12:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Alan, >>>>> I have good luck with windshield adhesive (poly urethane) I used it as a liquid rubber. It is super tough and cheap. >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, May 15, 2017 5:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ended up ordering this encapsulating 2 part flexible polyurethane, >>>>> that is suitable for a marine environment. >>>>> http://nz.element14.com/robnor /el110h-bk-250/encapsulant-2k- flex-pu-gp-marine/dp/1891122 >>>>> Will see how it goes! >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>>> On 16/05/2017, at 3:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks Hank, >>>>> I need the two wires to angle off to the sides as they are soldered on >>>>> to the corners of the LED. >>>>> Yes I could thread the outside of the nozzle & put on a blue globe cable gland, >>>>> I have some. Even though Carsten & Emile are advocates of the Blue globe, >>>>> they do fit two on each penetration; one on the outside, one on the inside & >>>>> I can't do that with the light fitting. >>>>> I have come across a few likely candidates for the outer covering in the way >>>>> of a mouldable polyurethane for marine applications...... >>>>> https://www.aeromarineproducts .com/product/urethane-75a-enca psulating-compound/ >>>>> This is an American product I can't locate here in N.Z.. Have found a local >>>>> product ... >>>>> http://www.electrolube.co.nz/p roducts/encapsulation-resins-p olyurethane/ur5118/polyurethan e-potting-compound/ >>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>>> On 15/05/2017, at 11:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Alan, >>>>>> In an effort to keep it easy and clean looking, I would extend the penetrator body at the wet side to allow for threading on a compression fitting. Slide your cable into that and snug the nut and it is done and clean looking. Also from my experience, I would not angle the wires, I would make it strait through and strip as much of the jacket as possible. I am sure your drawing is not representing the actual amount to be stripped, but it should be more significant. Keeping it strait will make it a lot easier, I have done over 20 wires in one penetrator with a strait threaded bore. >>>>>> Hank >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sunday, May 14, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> I have a number of penetrators to do on my lights & other items, & I'm >>>>>> looking for the best materials for them. >>>>>> My design is as below. It is the base of my light housing. >>>>>> I have stripped a small section of wire that runs through the epoxy. >>>>>> I am not sure of the best material on the next 2 layers. >>>>>> I am looking at this marine silicone, to seal about an inch up the wiring jacket. >>>>>> http://www.selleys.co.nz/car-c are/sealants/marine/ >>>>>> Am thinking I will apply this silicone with a brush & then tidy things up & both >>>>>> protect the silicone & support the cable with a molded rubberized outer layer. >>>>>> I am not sure of a suitable moldable material for a marine environment. >>>>>> Am guessing I will need about the same hardness as a standard o-ring. >>>>>> Any suggestions on the material or comments on the design thanks. >>>>>> Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 17 17:28:10 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 15:28:10 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials In-Reply-To: B543dDnRyqk43B544dZCFG References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> <83507100.330150.1494927496036@mail.yahoo.com> <672C7A1B-7B73-46AF-B3C7-967F1DAA8318@yahoo.com> <314607448.455042.1494936668705@mail.yahoo.com> <6EFE64B1-1880-46AE-BEBC-CB643AABB37E@yahoo.com> <583A0CF0-BEF9-43E2-8EC5-D726FC0E187C@yahoo.com> <858757722.1108654.1494981021633@mail.yahoo.com> <1303266825.889298.1494982873971@mail.yahoo.com> <1351015884.1167749.1494986378268@mail.yahoo.com> <919820548.1462017.1495022572662@mail.yahoo.com> B543dDnRyqk43B544dZCFG Message-ID: <20812d55-b420-43b8-878f-8b69987fb8a0@email.android.com> If you machine the hole through the penetrator as a conical cavity rather than cylindrical, and then use a potting epoxy with some compliance / flexibility, the pressure acting to push the potting compound into the hole will also develop some increased compressive force around the electrodes. Sean On May 17, 2017 1:55:51 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hank, >If I cover everything with the glue & then the polyurethane, I won't >need to rely on >the epoxy for sealing. If the cable was cut then the system would rely >on the epoxy >as a back up. At that stage I could put up with a temporary dribble; >the electrics would >be shorting out as well. I will be wary of stripping back enough of the >wiring sheath, >but failure can also occur between the epoxy & wall of the penetrator. >Cheers Alan > > >Sent from my iPad > >> On 18/05/2017, at 12:02 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Alan, >> That is not correct, the epoxy will not stop the water past 1,000 psi >completely. If the wires are stripped back further so the sealant >creates an extra layer against the conductor, that will certainly help. >I tested my penetrators by screwing them into a pipe and applying air >pressure inside the pipe and the low pressure side in water. There >were super tiny bubbles coming out of the wire ends past 1,000 psi. >That means the air got past the epoxy and escaped between the conductor >and the jacket. >> Hank >> >> >> On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:03 PM, hank pronk via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Alan, >> If the other end of the cable is not perfectly sealed the water will >migrate making the silicone useless. >> Hank >> >> >> On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 7:01 PM, Alan James via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> Juries not out on how I want to do that. >> I don't think I'll have the glue on the conductor, I will just embed >the conductor & insulation >> & a portion of the cable sheath in the epoxy & then go over the >aluminum fitting & cable >> with the glue & then encapsulate it all in polyurethane potting mix. >> Alan >> >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 12:37 PM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials >> >> Alan, >> Your idea to use a silicone or similar to back up the epoxy is a good >idea. My epoxy multi wire connector will let teeny tiny air bubbles >through when I exceed 1,000 psi. You will have to strip the wire back >far enough for the silicone to stick to the conductor. >> Hank >> >> >> On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:18 PM, Stephen Fordyce via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi Alan, >> I'd be interested to see what you come up with on cable. My research >indicated a polyurethane outer sheath was the way to go (and it's held >up extremely well to the punishment my caving lights have seen) but >that's also really expensive and hard to get. I previously used PVC >and it held up well enough, slightly different application though. >> >> The China stuff - yep there's a lot of good stuff, but also a lot of >bad stuff. Your experience is pretty bad though, usually they are a >lot better than that. >> >> Cheers, >> Steve >> >> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 10:03 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> Thanks Steve, >> I found some in a local sports shop. I'll see how it likes the >> marine environment! >> Have changed tack a bit as I thought I should be nailing down >> exactly what cable I'm going to use so I know what material I am >> gluing to. G.L. wants self extinguishing sheathing / insulation >> & halogen free. Also can't be hydroscopic. >> Got my pressure sensors back from China (again) they now have >> the right fitting but still a sloppy fit. They sent them out with an >> over-sized o-ring that wouldn't fit, even though I supplied them a >> first stage regulator for testing. I am thinking that your original >> suggestion of an adapter would have been a better way to go! >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 17/05/2017, at 10:54 AM, Stephen Fordyce via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi Alan, >>> Try searching for Shoe Goo - I gather it's the same stuff. I've got >some off ebay in Australia and used with good success on wetsuit gloves >for caving. Liquid Electrical Engineering Tape is also good if you >brush it on in thin layers. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Steve >>> >>> On 17 May 2017 6:50 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" > wrote: >>> Hank, >>> thanks, I feel I am getting somewhere. >>> I can't find Goop in N.Z. but have been looking at other marine >products. >>> You are right about the silicone not being ideal. 90 % of the marine >adhesives >>> I looked at are polyurethane based products. Although the outer >moulded >>> section will be polyurethane, sometimes mouldable products lose a >bit of their >>> adhesion with their "bulking" additives. >>> Keith Gordon gave me a link to a product he has used for splicing >underwater >>> cables. You squirt the glue in to heat shrink tubing that is around >the cables, then >>> heat the ends of the heat shrink tubing to close it. >>> I will do a bit more research on that today. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 17/05/2017, at 12:11 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ed > wrote: >>>> >>>> Alan, >>>> Got it, there is a way better option than silicone for that. The >product is call Goop or shoe goo. This stuff is amazing, it sticks >much better than silicone and is super tough. I patch my waders with >it, and you can not peel it off, no way no how. >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 4:25 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hank, >>>> I see you can't sleep again! >>>> Thanks for the offer on the windshield polyurethane. >>>> My thought process went like this.... I had seen Doug's video where >he >>>> had several failures using just the epoxy, so I was going to coat >the epoxy >>>> with silicone to seal it better. On my Subconn connectors I noticed >they >>>> have a thin layer of rubber vulcanised for about an inch up the >wire casing; >>>> I wanted to mimic this but with silicone. Then the polyurethane >outer was, >>>> as I have said, a cable support, protection for the silicone & to >make it look >>>> tidy. It didn't necessarily have to adhere to the silicone. I need >a material >>>> that will compress at a similar rate as the cable I am >>>> using, so that one surface doesn't pull away from the other. >>>> I might test the silicone against the polyurathane to see what >adheres best >>>> to my wiring & aluminium light housing, & go from there. >>>> I will have at least 50 through hull fittings to do & am open to >playing around >>>> with a few variations to get it right. >>>> Cheers Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 16/05/2017, at 9:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Alan, >>>>> There is really no need for the silicone layer, in fact it might >cause you grief trying to get another material to stick to it. If you >need some testing done on the windshield stuff, let me know, I have >some left over. >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, May 15, 2017 7:10 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, I will have a look at that it sounds like it would have >the >>>>> adhesion that's needed. >>>>> This stuff is designed for encapsulating electronics in marine >>>>> environments. I was going to use it over a thin layer of silicone >but >>>>> might not use the silicone now. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>>> On 16/05/2017, at 12:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Alan, >>>>>> I have good luck with windshield adhesive (poly urethane) I used >it as a liquid rubber. It is super tough and cheap. >>>>>> Hank >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, May 15, 2017 5:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ended up ordering this encapsulating 2 part flexible >polyurethane, >>>>>> that is suitable for a marine environment. >>>>>> http://nz.element14.com/robnor /el110h-bk-250/encapsulant-2k- >flex-pu-gp-marine/dp/1891122 >>>>>> Will see how it goes! >>>>>> Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 16/05/2017, at 3:43 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks Hank, >>>>>> I need the two wires to angle off to the sides as they are >soldered on >>>>>> to the corners of the LED. >>>>>> Yes I could thread the outside of the nozzle & put on a blue >globe cable gland, >>>>>> I have some. Even though Carsten & Emile are advocates of the >Blue globe, >>>>>> they do fit two on each penetration; one on the outside, one on >the inside & >>>>>> I can't do that with the light fitting. >>>>>> I have come across a few likely candidates for the outer >covering in the way >>>>>> of a mouldable polyurethane for marine applications...... >>>>>> https://www.aeromarineproducts .com/product/urethane-75a-enca >psulating-compound/ >>>>>> This is an American product I can't locate here in N.Z.. Have >found a local >>>>>> product ... >>>>>> http://www.electrolube.co.nz/p roducts/encapsulation-resins-p >olyurethane/ur5118/polyurethan e-potting-compound/ >>>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 15/05/2017, at 11:59 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Alan, >>>>>>> In an effort to keep it easy and clean looking, I would extend >the penetrator body at the wet side to allow for threading on a >compression fitting. Slide your cable into that and snug the nut and >it is done and clean looking. Also from my experience, I would not >angle the wires, I would make it strait through and strip as much of >the jacket as possible. I am sure your drawing is not representing the >actual amount to be stripped, but it should be more significant. >Keeping it strait will make it a lot easier, I have done over 20 wires >in one penetrator with a strait threaded bore. >>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sunday, May 14, 2017 9:40 PM, Alan James via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> I have a number of penetrators to do on my lights & other items, >& I'm >>>>>>> looking for the best materials for them. >>>>>>> My design is as below. It is the base of my light housing. >>>>>>> I have stripped a small section of wire that runs through the >epoxy. >>>>>>> I am not sure of the best material on the next 2 layers. >>>>>>> I am looking at this marine silicone, to seal about an inch up >the wiring jacket. >>>>>>> http://www.selleys.co.nz/car-c are/sealants/marine/ >>>>>>> Am thinking I will apply this silicone with a brush & then tidy >things up & both >>>>>>> protect the silicone & support the cable with a molded >rubberized outer layer. >>>>>>> I am not sure of a suitable moldable material for a marine >environment. >>>>>>> Am guessing I will need about the same hardness as a standard >o-ring. >>>>>>> Any suggestions on the material or comments on the design >thanks. >>>>>>> Alan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib >les >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib >les >>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib >les >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 17 20:08:20 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 12:08:20 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials In-Reply-To: <20812d55-b420-43b8-878f-8b69987fb8a0@email.android.com> References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> <83507100.330150.1494927496036@mail.yahoo.com> <672C7A1B-7B73-46AF-B3C7-967F1DAA8318@yahoo.com> <314607448.455042.1494936668705@mail.yahoo.com> <6EFE64B1-1880-46AE-BEBC-CB643AABB37E@yahoo.com> <583A0CF0-BEF9-43E2-8EC5-D726FC0E187C@yahoo.com> <858757722.1108654.1494981021633@mail.yahoo.com> <1303266825.889298.1494982873971@mail.yahoo.com> <1351015884.1167749.1494986378268@mail.yahoo.com> <919820548.1462017.1495022572662@mail.yahoo.com> <20812d55-b420-43b8-878f-8b69987fb8a0@email.android.com> Message-ID: Thanks Sean, I filed a conical penetrator design, but had forgotten about it! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 18/05/2017, at 9:28 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > If you machine the hole through the penetrator as a conical cavity rather than cylindrical, and then use a potting epoxy with some compliance / flexibility, the pressure acting to push the potting compound into the hole will also develop some increased compressive force around the electrodes. > > Sean > > >> On May 17, 2017 1:55:51 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hank, >> If I cover everything with the glue & then the polyurethane, I won't need to rely on >> the epoxy for sealing. If the cable was cut then the system would rely on the epoxy >> as a back up. At that stage I could put up with a temporary dribble; the electrics would >> be shorting out as well. I will be wary of stripping back enough of the wiring sheath, >> but failure can also occur between the epoxy & wall of the penetrator. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 18/05/2017, at 12:02 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> That is not correct, the epoxy will not stop the water past 1,000 psi completely. If the wires are stripped back further so the sealant creates an extra layer against t > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 18 12:06:28 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 18:06:28 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Launched and capazied In-Reply-To: References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> <83507100.330150.1494927496036@mail.yahoo.com> <672C7A1B-7B73-46AF-B3C7-967F1DAA8318@yahoo.com> <314607448.455042.1494936668705@mail.yahoo.com> <6EFE64B1-1880-46AE-BEBC-CB643AABB37E@yahoo.com> <583A0CF0-BEF9-43E2-8EC5-D726FC0E187C@yahoo.com> <858757722.1108654.1494981021633@mail.yahoo.com> <1303266825.889298.1494982873971@mail.yahoo.com> <1351015884.1167749.1494986378268@mail.yahoo.com> <919820548.1462017.1495022572662@mail.yahoo.com> <20812d55-b420-43b8-878f-8b69987fb8a0@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1495123588745.208572.aa1b7a74d0abf059492b1cd7eee15b80553e2782@spica.telekom.de> He build a 11 t Seehund sub with only 3,5 ts. https://www.noz.de/deutschland-welt/niedersachsen/artikel/895953/selbst-gebautes-u-boot-seehund-kentert-im-mittellandkanal#gallery&0&0&895953 vbr Carsten ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 18 12:21:28 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 18:21:28 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Launched and capazied In-Reply-To: <1495123588745.208572.aa1b7a74d0abf059492b1cd7eee15b80553e2782@spica.telekom.de> References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> <83507100.330150.1494927496036@mail.yahoo.com> <672C7A1B-7B73-46AF-B3C7-967F1DAA8318@yahoo.com> <314607448.455042.1494936668705@mail.yahoo.com> <6EFE64B1-1880-46AE-BEBC-CB643AABB37E@yahoo.com> <583A0CF0-BEF9-43E2-8EC5-D726FC0E187C@yahoo.com> <858757722.1108654.1494981021633@mail.yahoo.com> <1303266825.889298.1494982873971@mail.yahoo.com> <1351015884.1167749.1494986378268@mail.yahoo.com> <919820548.1462017.1495022572662@mail.yahoo.com> <20812d55-b420-43b8-878f-8b69987fb8a0@email.android.com> <1495123588745.208572.aa1b7a74d0abf059492b1cd7eee15b80553e2782@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <1495124488821.203148.d49440ad2ffdcc1c03c74b3f3790f1346c1491d3@spica.telekom.de> Just found a video of the launching: http://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/selbst-gebautes-u-boot-seehund-kentert-im-mittellandkanal-1.3507941 -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Launched and capazied Datum: 2017-05-18T18:10:46+0200 Von: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" He build a 11 t Seehund sub with only 3,5 ts. https://www.noz.de/deutschland-welt/niedersachsen/artikel/895953/selbst-gebautes-u-boot-seehund-kentert-im-mittellandkanal#gallery&0&0&895953 vbr Carsten ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 18 13:30:33 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 17:30:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials References: <553447840.984389.1495128633877.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <553447840.984389.1495128633877@mail.yahoo.com> Are there any standards regarding electrical penetrators (battery pod to pressure hull) ie electrode diameter,insulator thickness ? -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 5/17/17, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Wednesday, May 17, 2017, 7:08 PM Thanks Sean,I filed a conical penetrator design, but had forgotten about it!Alan Sent from my iPad On 18/05/2017, at 9:28 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: If you machine the hole through the penetrator as a conical cavity rather than cylindrical, and then use a potting epoxy with some compliance / flexibility, the pressure acting to push the potting compound into the hole will also develop some increased compressive force around the electrodes. Sean On May 17, 2017 1:55:51 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,If I cover everything with the glue & then the polyurethane, I won't need to rely onthe epoxy for sealing. If the cable was cut then the system would rely on the epoxyas a back up. At that stage I could put up with a temporary dribble; the electrics wouldbe shorting out as well. I will be wary of stripping back enough of the wiring sheath,but failure can also occur between the epoxy & wall of the penetrator.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 18/05/2017, at 12:02 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,That is not correct, the epoxy will not stop the water past 1,000 psi?completely. ? ?If the wires are stripped back further so the sealant creates an extra layer against t_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 18 14:32:47 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 12:32:47 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials In-Reply-To: BPHFdTnojgMSlBPHHdDWEQ References: <553447840.984389.1495128633877.ref@mail.yahoo.com> BPHFdTnojgMSlBPHHdDWEQ Message-ID: <26eeae65-bc32-451a-a404-477f0a5d9203@email.android.com> Electrode diameter will be set by the voltage / current requirement of the circuit, just as you would size wire. Consider the total length of the wire run including the penetrator, and size for the allowable voltage drop. Allow for a bit of extra resistance in mechanical connections. The distance between the electrode and the surrounding metal, through the potting compound, is dependent on the rated dielectric strength of the compound and the maximum voltage that the electrode will see. Sean On May 18, 2017 11:30:33 AM MDT, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Are there any standards regarding electrical penetrators (battery pod >to pressure hull) ie electrode diameter,insulator thickness ? >-------------------------------------------- >On Wed, 5/17/17, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials >To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > Date: Wednesday, May 17, 2017, 7:08 PM > > Thanks > Sean,I filed > a conical penetrator design, but had forgotten about > it!Alan > > Sent from my iPad > On > 18/05/2017, at 9:28 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > If you machine the > hole through the penetrator as a conical cavity rather than > cylindrical, and then use a potting epoxy with some > compliance / flexibility, the pressure acting to push the > potting compound into the hole will also develop some > increased compressive force around the electrodes. > Sean > > > > > On May 17, 2017 1:55:51 PM > MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Hank,If > I cover everything with the glue & then the > polyurethane, I won't need to rely onthe epoxy for sealing. > If the cable was cut then the system would rely on the > epoxyas a > back up. At that stage I could put up with a temporary > dribble; the electrics wouldbe shorting out as > well. I will be wary of stripping back enough of the wiring > sheath,but > failure can also occur between the epoxy & wall of the > penetrator.Cheers Alan > > Sent > from my iPad > On 18/05/2017, at >12:02 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > Alan,That > is not correct, the epoxy will not stop the water past 1,000 > psi?completely. ? ?If the wires are stripped back > further so the sealant creates an extra layer against > t_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 18 14:46:14 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 18:46:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Launched and capazied In-Reply-To: <1495124488821.203148.d49440ad2ffdcc1c03c74b3f3790f1346c1491d3@spica.telekom.de> References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> <83507100.330150.1494927496036@mail.yahoo.com> <672C7A1B-7B73-46AF-B3C7-967F1DAA8318@yahoo.com> <314607448.455042.1494936668705@mail.yahoo.com> <6EFE64B1-1880-46AE-BEBC-CB643AABB37E@yahoo.com> <583A0CF0-BEF9-43E2-8EC5-D726FC0E187C@yahoo.com> <858757722.1108654.1494981021633@mail.yahoo.com> <1303266825.889298.1494982873971@mail.yahoo.com> <1351015884.1167749.1494986378268@mail.yahoo.com> <919820548.1462017.1495022572662@mail.yahoo.com> <20812d55-b420-43b8-878f-8b69987fb8a0@email.android.com> <1495123588745.208572.aa1b7a74d0abf059492b1cd7eee15b80553e2782@spica.telekom.de> <1495124488821.203148.d49440ad2ffdcc1c03c74b3f3790f1346c1491d3@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <1224079820.595577.1495133174975@mail.yahoo.com> Hopefully he can make the needed changes. He obviously put a lot of work into it. Greg From: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Launched and capazied Just found a video? of the launching: ?http://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/selbst-gebautes-u-boot-seehund-kentert-im-mittellandkanal-1.3507941????-----Original-Nachricht-----Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Launched and capaziedDatum: 2017-05-18T18:10:46+0200Von: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ?????He build a 11 t Seehund sub with only 3,5 ts. ??https://www.noz.de/deutschland-welt/niedersachsen/artikel/895953/selbst-gebautes-u-boot-seehund-kentert-im-mittellandkanal#gallery&0&0&895953?vbr Carsten?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 18 15:40:51 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 19:40:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Launched and capazied References: <114989075.1153907.1495136451729.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <114989075.1153907.1495136451729@mail.yahoo.com> Yeah,Beautiful boat. He needs to be in contact with the list. -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 5/18/17, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Launched and capazied To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Thursday, May 18, 2017, 1:46 PM Hopefully he can make the needed changes. He obviously put a lot of work into it. Greg From: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Launched and capazied Just found a video? of the launching: ? http://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/selbst-gebautes-u-boot-seehund-kentert-im-mittellandkanal-1.3507941 ? ? ? ? -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Launched and capazied Datum: 2017-05-18T18:10:46+0200 Von: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? ? ? ? ? He build a 11 t Seehund sub with only 3,5 ts. ? ? https://www.noz.de/deutschland-welt/niedersachsen/artikel/895953/selbst-gebautes-u-boot-seehund-kentert-im-mittellandkanal#gallery&0&0&895953 ? vbr Carsten ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Virus-free. www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 18 17:21:48 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 21:21:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Launched and capazied In-Reply-To: <114989075.1153907.1495136451729@mail.yahoo.com> References: <114989075.1153907.1495136451729.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <114989075.1153907.1495136451729@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <82849990.1087259.1495142508997@mail.yahoo.com> Absolutely?beautiful sub! ?I hope he joins the group.Hank On Thursday, May 18, 2017 1:41 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yeah,Beautiful boat. He needs to be in contact with the list. -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 5/18/17, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Launched and capazied To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Thursday, May 18, 2017, 1:46 PM Hopefully he can make the needed changes. He obviously put a lot of work into it. Greg ? ? ? From: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 12:23 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Launched and capazied ? ? Just found a video? of the launching: ? http://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/selbst-gebautes-u-boot-seehund-kentert-im-mittellandkanal-1.3507941 ? ? ? ? -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Launched and capazied Datum: 2017-05-18T18:10:46+0200 Von: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? ? ? ? ? He build a 11 t Seehund sub with only 3,5 ts. ? ? https://www.noz.de/deutschland-welt/niedersachsen/artikel/895953/selbst-gebautes-u-boot-seehund-kentert-im-mittellandkanal#gallery&0&0&895953 ? vbr Carsten ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? Virus-free. www.avast.com ??? ??? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 19 00:11:29 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 21:11:29 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Launched and capazied Message-ID: <20170518211129.181EABCA@m0086238.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 19 09:04:37 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 13:04:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Launched and capazied In-Reply-To: <1495123588745.208572.aa1b7a74d0abf059492b1cd7eee15b80553e2782@spica.telekom.de> References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> <83507100.330150.1494927496036@mail.yahoo.com> <672C7A1B-7B73-46AF-B3C7-967F1DAA8318@yahoo.com> <314607448.455042.1494936668705@mail.yahoo.com> <6EFE64B1-1880-46AE-BEBC-CB643AABB37E@yahoo.com> <583A0CF0-BEF9-43E2-8EC5-D726FC0E187C@yahoo.com> <858757722.1108654.1494981021633@mail.yahoo.com> <1303266825.889298.1494982873971@mail.yahoo.com> <1351015884.1167749.1494986378268@mail.yahoo.com> <919820548.1462017.1495022572662@mail.yahoo.com> <20812d55-b420-43b8-878f-8b69987fb8a0@email.android.com> <1495123588745.208572.aa1b7a74d0abf059492b1cd7eee15b80553e2782@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <1300527007.2474635.1495199077158@mail.yahoo.com> Nice replica.? But as he says it will be a nice garden house!Best wishes Juergen "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb am 11:09 Donnerstag, 18.Mai 2017: ??He build a 11 t Seehund sub with only 3,5 ts. ??https://www.noz.de/deutschland-welt/niedersachsen/artikel/895953/selbst-gebautes-u-boot-seehund-kentert-im-mittellandkanal#gallery&0&0&895953?vbr Carsten?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 19 13:51:14 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 19:51:14 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt.Peppers back into the water In-Reply-To: <1224079820.595577.1495133174975@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> <83507100.330150.1494927496036@mail.yahoo.com> <672C7A1B-7B73-46AF-B3C7-967F1DAA8318@yahoo.com> <314607448.455042.1494936668705@mail.yahoo.com> <6EFE64B1-1880-46AE-BEBC-CB643AABB37E@yahoo.com> <583A0CF0-BEF9-43E2-8EC5-D726FC0E187C@yahoo.com> <858757722.1108654.1494981021633@mail.yahoo.com> <1303266825.889298.1494982873971@mail.yahoo.com> <1351015884.1167749.1494986378268@mail.yahoo.com> <919820548.1462017.1495022572662@mail.yahoo.com> <20812d55-b420-43b8-878f-8b69987fb8a0@email.android.com> <1495123588745.208572.aa1b7a74d0abf059492b1cd7eee15b80553e2782@spica.telekom.de> <1495124488821.203148.d49440ad2ffdcc1c03c74b3f3790f1346c1491d3@spica.telekom.de> <1224079820.595577.1495133174975@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1495216274178.419034.547fd8cc0bcf0edc0f9ac0eae667cf8f5b5bcf51@spica.telekom.de> The new owner made a overhault and paint it sulphur yellow instead of orange. Its now 28 years old and in condition like new. https://www.facebook.com/DieWracktaucher/photos/pcb.1963108283975693/1963107573975764/?type=3&theater https://www.facebook.com/DieWracktaucher/photos/pcb.1963108283975693/1963107573975764/?type=3&theater Vbr Carsten ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 19 15:51:02 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 15:51:02 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt.Peppers back into the water In-Reply-To: <1495216274178.419034.547fd8cc0bcf0edc0f9ac0eae667cf8f5b5bcf51@spica.telekom.de> References: <1584794345.982081.1494819622512.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1584794345.982081.1494819622512@mail.yahoo.com> <756766068.1482108.1494849569293@mail.yahoo.com> <151404763.41091.1494893181419@mail.yahoo.com> <83507100.330150.1494927496036@mail.yahoo.com> <672C7A1B-7B73-46AF-B3C7-967F1DAA8318@yahoo.com> <314607448.455042.1494936668705@mail.yahoo.com> <6EFE64B1-1880-46AE-BEBC-CB643AABB37E@yahoo.com> <583A0CF0-BEF9-43E2-8EC5-D726FC0E187C@yahoo.com> <858757722.1108654.1494981021633@mail.yahoo.com> <1303266825.889298.1494982873971@mail.yahoo.com> <1351015884.1167749.1494986378268@mail.yahoo.com> <919820548.1462017.1495022572662@mail.yahoo.com> <20812d55-b420-43b8-878f-8b69987fb8a0@email.android.com> <1495123588745.208572.aa1b7a74d0abf059492b1cd7eee15b80553e2782@spica.telekom.de> <1495124488821.203148.d49440ad2ffdcc1c03c74b3f3790f1346c1491d3@spica.telekom.de> <1224079820.595577.1495133174975@mail.yahoo.com> <1495216274178.419034.547fd8cc0bcf0edc0f9ac0eae667cf8f5b5bcf51@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: She looks great. Happy to hear that Sgt. Peppers will continue to live on! ~ Douglas S. On 5/19/17, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > The new owner made a overhault and paint it sulphur yellow instead of > orange. > Its now 28 years old and in condition like new. > > https://www.facebook.com/DieWracktaucher/photos/pcb.1963108283975693/1963107573975764/?type=3&theater > > > https://www.facebook.com/DieWracktaucher/photos/pcb.1963108283975693/1963107573975764/?type=3&theater > > > Vbr Carsten > ? From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 20 06:11:42 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 May 2017 10:11:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials In-Reply-To: <553447840.984389.1495128633877@mail.yahoo.com> References: <553447840.984389.1495128633877.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <553447840.984389.1495128633877@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1607531784.1819639.1495275102375@mail.yahoo.com> Pete,in addition to what Sean said, the penetrators are to be water tighteven if the cable is shorn off!ABS submersible rules refers you to the Steel Vessel Rules, & a sizing chart (table 6) inpart 4 chapter 8 & section 3.Alan From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 5:33 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials Are there any standards regarding electrical penetrators (battery pod to pressure hull) ie electrode diameter,insulator thickness ?? -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 5/17/17, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Penetrator materials To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Wednesday, May 17, 2017, 7:08 PM Thanks Sean,I filed a conical penetrator design, but had forgotten about it!Alan Sent from my iPad On 18/05/2017, at 9:28 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: If you machine the hole through the penetrator as a conical cavity rather than cylindrical, and then use a potting epoxy with some compliance / flexibility, the pressure acting to push the potting compound into the hole will also develop some increased compressive force around the electrodes. Sean On May 17, 2017 1:55:51 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,If I cover everything with the glue & then the polyurethane, I won't need to rely onthe epoxy for sealing. If the cable was cut then the system would rely on the epoxyas a back up. At that stage I could put up with a temporary dribble; the electrics wouldbe shorting out as well. I will be wary of stripping back enough of the wiring sheath,but failure can also occur between the epoxy & wall of the penetrator.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 18/05/2017, at 12:02 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,That is not correct, the epoxy will not stop the water past 1,000 psi?completely. ? ?If the wires are stripped back further so the sealant creates an extra layer against t_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 20 12:43:45 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 May 2017 16:43:45 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fitting on K boat main ballast tanks Message-ID: All, I want to increase the diameter of the tubing for releasing air on the main ballast tanks. Anyone know what the elbow fitting on the tanks is called? Maybe where to order a couple of them? Thanks. Brian Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 20 17:25:14 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 May 2017 17:25:14 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fitting on K boat main ballast tanks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Brian, The fittings are called compression fittings, but searching on eBay I find it more productive to just use the brand name Swagelok as a key word. Even competing brands (Parker, Tylok, Brennan, etc.) are generally listed with the word "Swagelok" somewhere in the listing. Try for instance "Swagelok male NPT elbow" and optionally add words like "316" or "stainless", or the fractional size you're looking for, because you'll get so many results you'll want to refine it a bit. The trickier bit is what you put inside the tank for the NPT thread on the elbow to screw into, because you want to keep it as flush as possible. To look around, I'd recommend McMaster Carr. Search for NPT nuts, NPT pipe flanges, etc. You want to get the flattest thing you can find with an NPT thread, and epoxy it to the inside of the tank. After installation, maybe grind off the part of the fitting that pokes through the nut to get the fitting intake as close to the top of the tank as possible. BTW due to design changes in Shackleton I put a whole bunch of large bore Swagelok fittings up for sale on eBay myself a few days ago. But my guess is they're larger than what you're looking for. They're for 1" tube, which would make Harold dive in seconds. Best, Alec On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > All, > > I want to increase the diameter of the tubing for releasing air on the > main ballast tanks. Anyone know what the elbow fitting on the tanks is > called? Maybe where to order a couple of them? > > Thanks. > > Brian > > > > > Get Outlook for Android > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 20 17:30:44 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 May 2017 14:30:44 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fitting on K boat main ballast tanks Message-ID: <20170520143044.22A5C971@m0117459.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 20 18:36:46 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 May 2017 22:36:46 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fitting on K boat main ballast tanks Message-ID: The current ones on Harold look like bulkhead fittings with oring grooves cut in the nut and the top surface and an attached elbow compression fitting, the entire thing being one piece. If I changed to flare that would be fine for attaching the tubing, but it's the attachment to the tank that's both elegant and seemingly rare as I can't find it anywhere. Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 20 19:19:09 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 May 2017 19:19:09 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fitting on K boat main ballast tanks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2431C2AF-EC5B-42AF-847E-637C5972A1AA@gmail.com> I'm not proposing flare fittings. Can you email me a close-ish photo? Thanks, Alec > On May 20, 2017, at 6:36 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > The current ones on Harold look like bulkhead fittings with oring grooves cut in the nut and the top surface and an attached elbow compression fitting, the entire thing being one piece. If I changed to flare that would be fine for attaching the tubing, but it's the attachment to the tank that's both elegant and seemingly rare as I can't find it anywhere. > > Get Outlook for Android > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 20 20:57:26 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 00:57:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fitting on K boat main ballast tanks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <520596053.2133175.1495328246941@mail.yahoo.com> i use liquid tight carlon fittings From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles To: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2017 12:47 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fitting on K boat main ballast tanks All, I want to increase the diameter of the tubing for releasing air on the main ballast tanks. Anyone know what the elbow fitting on the tanks is called? Maybe where to order a couple of them? Thanks. Brian Get Outlook for Android _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: s-l225.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5717 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 20 21:25:53 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 01:25:53 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fitting on K boat main ballast tanks Message-ID: Doh ... I took a couple of pictures to send Alec and in the pics I could see a crack in the paint. Three parts, including the two nuts with oring grooves. I'm betting I can recycle the nuts and make new orings. Always something. Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 21 01:44:28 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 05:44:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wire type for submersibles References: <1963760093.2118384.1495345468718.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1963760093.2118384.1495345468718@mail.yahoo.com> This is?a summary of what I have been researching?on wires. Steve wanted to hear this, but I would appreciate any other words of wisdom on this subject.?? As a generalization G.L. says protective coverings, sleeves, sheaths & fillers are to bemade of halogen free materials. This is because they are toxic & acidic when burning.PVC has halogens in it, & it is a common insulation on marine grade wire! Also PTFE(Teflon) insulation has halogens. Subconn connectors have PTFE wire insulation that runsin to the hull.In my view the halogen content?won't matter if the wire is outside the hull. G.L. does say that materials & insulations for electrical equipment used in water are to be agreed with G.L. in each single case.G.L. also says?insulation must be resistant to saltwater & oil vapors, not be hydroscopic &?has to be flame retardant & self extinguishing.PTFE has a very high flash point so possibly gains approval for internal use from that perspective.?? There is a standard for electrical cable for boats "UL1426", & when you?search for?marine electricalwire it will quote a standard like that.For sizing wire for submersibles ABS refers you to part 4, chapter 8 of the "steel vessel Rules" &table 6 in section 3.?? It started to get complicated as G.L. have a section Annex E that deals with umbilicals etc.I came to the conclusion that I would use a PVC insulated marine grade wire that conformed to the UL1426 standard for external use. And use PTFE insulated wire inside the hull. My thinking on goingwith PVC over PTFE externally?is that my glues would be more likely to stick to PVC than Teflon (PTFE) on my home baked through hulls.Cheers Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 21 03:27:33 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 00:27:33 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wire type for submersibles Message-ID: <20170521002733.22A5B05B@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 21 04:08:38 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 20:08:38 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wire type for submersibles In-Reply-To: <20170521002733.22A5B05B@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20170521002733.22A5B05B@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: <31F42D92-3843-40B9-8FBF-24D41791F60E@yahoo.com> Hi Brian, ABS in section 10 electrical systems, 17.1 says cables & wiring within the pressure boundary are to be low smoke, low/zero halogen cables. So PVC is out according to them. But don't shoot the messenger; if your PVC isn't packed in tight next to some electronics then there probably isn't much chance of it catching fire. Also if you have an extinguisher & a regulator on board you have back ups. Part of the reason they don't like halogens is because of the acidic smoke that can kill sensitive electronics. This would be more of an issue in a military sub than a home built psub! Good to be aware of this stuff though! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 21/05/2017, at 7:27 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, Is PVC a no no for all types of PVC ? with American Bureau of Shipping as well ? What about PVC pipe ? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > To: "psubs.org" > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wire type for submersibles > Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 05:44:28 +0000 (UTC) > > This is a summary of what I have been researching on wires. > Steve wanted to hear this, but I would appreciate any other words of wisdom on this subject. > As a generalization G.L. says protective coverings, sleeves, sheaths & fillers are to be > made of halogen free materials. This is because they are toxic & acidic when burning. > PVC has halogens in it, & it is a common insulation on marine grade wire! Also PTFE > (Teflon) insulation has halogens. Subconn connectors have PTFE wire insulation that runs > in to the hull. > In my view the halogen content won't matter if the wire is outside the hull. G.L. does say that materials > & insulations for electrical equipment used in water are to be agreed with G.L. in each single case. > G.L. also says insulation must be resistant to saltwater & oil vapors, not be hydroscopic & has to > be flame retardant & self extinguishing. > PTFE has a very high flash point so possibly gains approval for internal use from that perspective. > There is a standard for electrical cable for boats "UL1426", & when you search for marine electrical > wire it will quote a standard like that. > For sizing wire for submersibles ABS refers you to part 4, chapter 8 of the "steel vessel Rules" & > table 6 in section 3. > It started to get complicated as G.L. have a section Annex E that deals with umbilicals etc. > I came to the conclusion that I would use a PVC insulated marine grade wire that conformed to the > UL1426 standard for external use. And use PTFE insulated wire inside the hull. My thinking on going > with PVC over PTFE externally is that my glues would be more likely to stick to PVC than Teflon (PTFE) > on my home baked through hulls. > Cheers Alan > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 21 05:36:21 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 09:36:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fitting on K boat main ballast tanks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <845407892.2791341.1495359381385@mail.yahoo.com> That looks like an?explosion proof electric conduit fitting.Hank On Saturday, May 20, 2017 7:26 PM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doh ... I took a couple of pictures to send Alec and in the pics I could see a crack in the paint. Three parts, including the two nuts with oring grooves. I'm betting I can recycle the nuts and make new orings. Always something. Get Outlook for Android _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 21 08:16:10 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 08:16:10 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wire type for submersibles In-Reply-To: <1963760093.2118384.1495345468718@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1963760093.2118384.1495345468718.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1963760093.2118384.1495345468718@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: My wiring harness was designed by a friend who is a subject matter expert, and he had a cable requirement I would not have thought of. Besides amperage rating, he also wanted every cable rated for 105 degrees C. I believe this was a proxy that indicated the insulation material was suitable. For what its worth I ended up using Ancor brand marine cable throughout, as it meets the temperature requirement. Best, Alec On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 1:44 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > This is a summary of what I have been researching on wires. > Steve wanted to hear this, but I would appreciate any other words of > wisdom on this subject. > As a generalization G.L. says protective coverings, sleeves, sheaths & > fillers are to be > made of halogen free materials. This is because they are toxic & acidic > when burning. > PVC has halogens in it, & it is a common insulation on marine grade wire! > Also PTFE > (Teflon) insulation has halogens. Subconn connectors have PTFE wire > insulation that runs > in to the hull. > In my view the halogen content won't matter if the wire is outside the > hull. G.L. does say that materials > & insulations for electrical equipment used in water are to be agreed with > G.L. in each single case. > G.L. also says insulation must be resistant to saltwater & oil vapors, not > be hydroscopic & has to > be flame retardant & self extinguishing. > PTFE has a very high flash point so possibly gains approval for internal > use from that perspective. > There is a standard for electrical cable for boats "UL1426", & when > you search for marine electrical > wire it will quote a standard like that. > For sizing wire for submersibles ABS refers you to part 4, chapter 8 of > the "steel vessel Rules" & > table 6 in section 3. > It started to get complicated as G.L. have a section Annex E that deals > with umbilicals etc. > I came to the conclusion that I would use a PVC insulated marine grade > wire that conformed to the > UL1426 standard for external use. And use PTFE insulated wire inside the > hull. My thinking on going > with PVC over PTFE externally is that my glues would be more likely to > stick to PVC than Teflon (PTFE) > on my home baked through hulls. > Cheers Alan > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 21 09:13:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 01:13:56 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wire type for submersibles In-Reply-To: References: <1963760093.2118384.1495345468718.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1963760093.2118384.1495345468718@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alec, I just found a good summary of marine grade wire. http://www.marinewireandcable.com/2013/10/marine-grade-wire.html It mentions the temperature ratings. In summary it says buy marine wire that specifies the UL 1426 standard. This standard covers wire above 50V, so you know you are safe with your <50V system. The ptfe coated wires I have seen are rated around 200C. I haven't priced any yet! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 22/05/2017, at 12:16 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > My wiring harness was designed by a friend who is a subject matter expert, and he had a cable requirement I would not have thought of. Besides amperage rating, he also wanted every cable rated for 105 degrees C. I believe this was a proxy that indicated the insulation material was suitable. For what its worth I ended up using Ancor brand marine cable throughout, as it meets the temperature requirement. > > > Best, > > Alec > >> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 1:44 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> This is a summary of what I have been researching on wires. >> Steve wanted to hear this, but I would appreciate any other words of wisdom on this subject. >> As a generalization G.L. says protective coverings, sleeves, sheaths & fillers are to be >> made of halogen free materials. This is because they are toxic & acidic when burning. >> PVC has halogens in it, & it is a common insulation on marine grade wire! Also PTFE >> (Teflon) insulation has halogens. Subconn connectors have PTFE wire insulation that runs >> in to the hull. >> In my view the halogen content won't matter if the wire is outside the hull. G.L. does say that materials >> & insulations for electrical equipment used in water are to be agreed with G.L. in each single case. >> G.L. also says insulation must be resistant to saltwater & oil vapors, not be hydroscopic & has to >> be flame retardant & self extinguishing. >> PTFE has a very high flash point so possibly gains approval for internal use from that perspective. >> There is a standard for electrical cable for boats "UL1426", & when you search for marine electrical >> wire it will quote a standard like that. >> For sizing wire for submersibles ABS refers you to part 4, chapter 8 of the "steel vessel Rules" & >> table 6 in section 3. >> It started to get complicated as G.L. have a section Annex E that deals with umbilicals etc. >> I came to the conclusion that I would use a PVC insulated marine grade wire that conformed to the >> UL1426 standard for external use. And use PTFE insulated wire inside the hull. My thinking on going >> with PVC over PTFE externally is that my glues would be more likely to stick to PVC than Teflon (PTFE) >> on my home baked through hulls. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 21 20:07:51 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 10:07:51 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wire type for submersibles In-Reply-To: References: <1963760093.2118384.1495345468718.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1963760093.2118384.1495345468718@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Good work Alan! Cheers, Steve On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 11:13 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, > I just found a good summary of marine grade wire. > http://www.marinewireandcable.com/2013/10/marine-grade-wire.html > It mentions the temperature ratings. > In summary it says buy marine wire that specifies the UL 1426 standard. > This standard covers wire above 50V, so you know you are safe with > your <50V system. > The ptfe coated wires I have seen are rated around 200C. I haven't priced > any yet! > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 22/05/2017, at 12:16 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > My wiring harness was designed by a friend who is a subject matter expert, > and he had a cable requirement I would not have thought of. Besides > amperage rating, he also wanted every cable rated for 105 degrees C. I > believe this was a proxy that indicated the insulation material was > suitable. For what its worth I ended up using Ancor brand marine cable > throughout, as it meets the temperature requirement. > > > Best, > > Alec > > On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 1:44 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> This is a summary of what I have been researching on wires. >> Steve wanted to hear this, but I would appreciate any other words of >> wisdom on this subject. >> As a generalization G.L. says protective coverings, sleeves, sheaths & >> fillers are to be >> made of halogen free materials. This is because they are toxic & acidic >> when burning. >> PVC has halogens in it, & it is a common insulation on marine grade wire! >> Also PTFE >> (Teflon) insulation has halogens. Subconn connectors have PTFE wire >> insulation that runs >> in to the hull. >> In my view the halogen content won't matter if the wire is outside the >> hull. G.L. does say that materials >> & insulations for electrical equipment used in water are to be agreed >> with G.L. in each single case. >> G.L. also says insulation must be resistant to saltwater & oil vapors, >> not be hydroscopic & has to >> be flame retardant & self extinguishing. >> PTFE has a very high flash point so possibly gains approval for internal >> use from that perspective. >> There is a standard for electrical cable for boats "UL1426", & when >> you search for marine electrical >> wire it will quote a standard like that. >> For sizing wire for submersibles ABS refers you to part 4, chapter 8 of >> the "steel vessel Rules" & >> table 6 in section 3. >> It started to get complicated as G.L. have a section Annex E that >> deals with umbilicals etc. >> I came to the conclusion that I would use a PVC insulated marine grade >> wire that conformed to the >> UL1426 standard for external use. And use PTFE insulated wire inside the >> hull. My thinking on going >> with PVC over PTFE externally is that my glues would be more likely to >> stick to PVC than Teflon (PTFE) >> on my home baked through hulls. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 23 00:50:03 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 00:50:03 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Launched and capazied In-Reply-To: <1300527007.2474635.1495199077158@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15c33a3f8d6-562e-bbf8@webprd-a08.mail.aol.com> I'm a little late, but here's a minimal translation of the caption next to the pic: "An eleven meter long and seven meter wide replica of a "Seehund" type submarine has been turned over into the water, trying to get it into the water by means of a bootstrap." ???? For four years the hobby boat builder Bernd Filax from the vicinity of Hanover has tinkered on the submarine "Seehund." ????Then it was sloshed at his maiden voyage in the Mittellandkanal." ???? Jim In a message dated 5/19/2017 8:10:13 AM Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: ???? Nice replica.???? But as he says it will be a nice garden house! Best wishes Juergen ???? "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb am 11:09 Donnerstag, 18.Mai 2017: ???? ???? He build a 11 t Seehund sub with only 3,5 ts. ???? ???? https://www.noz.de/deutschland-welt/niedersachsen/artikel/895953/selbst-gebautes-u-boot-seehund-kentert-im-mittellandkanal#gallery&0&0&895953 ???? vbr Carsten _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 24 19:28:22 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 16:28:22 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Still waiting Message-ID: <20170524162822.327B7D28@m0117566.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 25 06:02:42 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 10:02:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Still waiting In-Reply-To: <20170524162822.327B7D28@m0117566.ppops.net> References: <20170524162822.327B7D28@m0117566.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1919557011.1761773.1495706562627@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks for the update Brian,hope the test goes well.I am not an expert on vacuums but I believe the most external pressure you could possibly get onyour flexible hose (created by your vacuum)? at sea level is 14.7psi (atmospheric pressure).I?did some calculations on clear plastic tube one time & found it could take more than I thought;somewhere around 100psi. However as soon as you squeeze or kink that hose out of round itbecomes very weak.Look forward to the test report.Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: PSubs Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2017 11:31 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Still waiting Hi All,???????????????? Still waiting to do another test.? Been taking care of a lot of details.? I wanted to have a vacuum line that I could hook up to my portable compressor and I wasn't sure if the flexible hose would collapse or not, but it doesn't seem to be an issue.? Also had a couple of issues with my motor pod.? I had a unnecessary concentric pipe arrangement that was not sealing properly and realized I?can just weld it.? This first motor pod, being the first prototype I had?some extra fudge factor elements involved to help me get things aligned properly.? Now I have a?better handle on what I need to do for the fabrication process.? Also had?to locate another big truck to tow me down there to the harbor.? And I decided to make extra bars of lead, in case I'm not heavy enough.???Brian_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 25 07:30:22 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 11:30:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Still waiting In-Reply-To: <20170524162822.327B7D28@m0117566.ppops.net> References: <20170524162822.327B7D28@m0117566.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1748432443.2238451.1495711822860@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Brian,If the hose does become an issue, I use?hydraulic hose for vacuum testing. ?Sounds under?control though. ?You must be just itching to get it in the water.Good luck.Hank On Wednesday, May 24, 2017 5:28 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,???????????????? Still waiting to do another test.? Been taking care of a lot of details.? I wanted to have a vacuum line that I could hook up to my portable compressor and I wasn't sure if the flexible hose would collapse or not, but it doesn't seem to be an issue.? Also had a couple of issues with my motor pod.? I had a unnecessary concentric pipe arrangement that was not sealing properly and realized I?can just weld it.? This first motor pod, being the first prototype I had?some extra fudge factor elements involved to help me get things aligned properly.? Now I have a?better handle on what I need to do for the fabrication process.? Also had?to locate another big truck to tow me down there to the harbor.? And I decided to make extra bars of lead, in case I'm not heavy enough.???Brian_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 25 07:40:13 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 11:40:13 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Helle Communication equipment Message-ID: Someone on eBay keeps trying to sell Helle equipment of various types. Most are for hard wiring, but several show up without microphone or transducer,, but clearly designed for thu water com. Just because I'm curious I went looking about for information, but no web search seems to find any. Would be interesting to know the power and frequency. Given the vintage, I'd bet a cold beer it's in the 27 kHz range. Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 25 07:55:47 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 07:55:47 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Helle Communication equipment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15c3f76756e-5030-114ac@webprd-m84.mail.aol.com> No bet. We used them for years. 27 kHz all. They were cheap and as reliable as a CB radio, which we also used in the early days. Not much range, relatively speaking, for either of them. But we sure got a lot of work done, anyway. Enjoy your beer. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Thu, May 25, 2017 7:40 am Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Helle Communication equipment Someone on eBay keeps trying to sell Helle equipment of various types. Most are for hard wiring, but several show up without microphone or transducer,, but clearly designed for thu water com. Just because I'm curious I went looking about for information, but no web search seems to find any. Would be interesting to know the power and frequency. Given the vintage, I'd bet a cold beer it's in the 27 kHz range. Get Outlook for Android _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 25 17:27:55 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 21:27:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1984868163.44308.1495747675997@mail.yahoo.com> Here is a tiny video of a test lake that is on a friends property that is at my disposal.hank On Thursday, May 25, 2017 3:23 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dteT3wAZNBk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2017-05-25 at 3.21 PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 9361 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 26 04:28:40 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 20:28:40 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <1984868163.44308.1495747675997@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1984868163.44308.1495747675997@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I have seen a few of those crystal clear spring fed lakes in N.Z., really inviting. That would be a dream dive if you could get a sub in. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 26/05/2017, at 9:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Here is a tiny video of a test lake that is on a friends property that is at my disposal. > hank > > > On Thursday, May 25, 2017 3:23 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dteT3wAZNBk > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 26 05:20:41 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 09:20:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: <1984868163.44308.1495747675997@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2143371213.371865.1495790441921@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Yes NZ is well known for clear water. ?It is hard to believe this lake is so deep, being so small. ?I can get Elementary in no problem with my excavator. ?gamma would be tougher.Hank On Friday, May 26, 2017 2:29 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I have seen a few of those crystal clear spring fed lakes in N.Z., really inviting.That would be a dream dive if you could get a sub in.?Alan Sent from my iPad On 26/05/2017, at 9:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Here is a tiny video of a test lake that is on a friends property that is at my disposal.hank On Thursday, May 25, 2017 3:23 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dteT3wAZNBk _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 26 05:30:42 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 19:30:42 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <2143371213.371865.1495790441921@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1984868163.44308.1495747675997@mail.yahoo.com> <2143371213.371865.1495790441921@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, Words like that are like crack to a cave diver - very enticing considering I'm off to Tasmania this weekend to dive in some rather nasty muddy caves. I've certainly travelled further than NZ to check out a good lead - can you give me any more info on these? (Stephen.fordyce at gmail.com) Cheers, Steve On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 7:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alan, > Yes NZ is well known for clear water. It is hard to believe this lake is > so deep, being so small. I can get Elementary in no problem with my > excavator. > gamma would be tougher. > Hank > > > On Friday, May 26, 2017 2:29 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hank, > I have seen a few of those crystal clear spring fed lakes in N.Z., really > inviting. > That would be a dream dive if you could get a sub in. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 26/05/2017, at 9:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Here is a tiny video of a test lake that is on a friends property that is > at my disposal. > hank > > > On Thursday, May 25, 2017 3:23 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dteT3wAZNBk > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 26 06:02:37 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 22:02:37 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: <1984868163.44308.1495747675997@mail.yahoo.com> <2143371213.371865.1495790441921@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <019EFE19-D75F-4F49-B906-5DD5520A6FEE@yahoo.com> Steve, the only springs I know are well known & shallow. Nelson is a great area for cave diving. There was an Aussie team mapping one of the Worlds deepest caves there. http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/7172905/Deep-cave-dive-reveals-NZ-native I don't cave dive but belonged to a speleological club way back. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 26/05/2017, at 9:30 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, > Words like that are like crack to a cave diver - very enticing considering I'm off to Tasmania coming this weekend to dive in some rather nasty muddy caves. > > I've certainly travelled further than NZ to check out a good lead - can you give me any more info on these? (Stephen.fordyce at gmail.com) > > Cheers, > Steve > >> On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 7:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alan, >> Yes NZ is well known for clear water. It is hard to believe this lake is so deep, being so small. I can get Elementary in no problem with my excavator. >> gamma would be tougher. >> Hank >> >> >> On Friday, May 26, 2017 2:29 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> I have seen a few of those crystal clear spring fed lakes in N.Z., really inviting. >> That would be a dream dive if you could get a sub in. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 26/05/2017, at 9:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Here is a tiny video of a test lake that is on a friends property that is at my disposal. >>> hank >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, May 25, 2017 3:23 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: >>> >>> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dteT3wAZNBk >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 26 07:06:37 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 21:06:37 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <019EFE19-D75F-4F49-B906-5DD5520A6FEE@yahoo.com> References: <1984868163.44308.1495747675997@mail.yahoo.com> <2143371213.371865.1495790441921@mail.yahoo.com> <019EFE19-D75F-4F49-B906-5DD5520A6FEE@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ah ok, thanks Alan. Yep, the guys doing the 200m+ dives in the Pearse Resurgence are mates and customers of mine :) On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 8:02 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Steve, > the only springs I know are well known & shallow. > Nelson is a great area for cave diving. There was an Aussie team mapping > one of the Worlds deepest caves there. > http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/7172905/Deep-cave-dive-reveals-NZ-native > I don't cave dive but belonged to a speleological club way back. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 26/05/2017, at 9:30 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Alan, > Words like that are like crack to a cave diver - very enticing considering > I'm off to Tasmania coming this weekend to dive in some rather nasty muddy > caves. > > I've certainly travelled further than NZ to check out a good lead - can > you give me any more info on these? (Stephen.fordyce at gmail.com) > > Cheers, > Steve > > On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 7:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Alan, >> Yes NZ is well known for clear water. It is hard to believe this lake is >> so deep, being so small. I can get Elementary in no problem with my >> excavator. >> gamma would be tougher. >> Hank >> >> >> On Friday, May 26, 2017 2:29 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> I have seen a few of those crystal clear spring fed lakes in N.Z., really >> inviting. >> That would be a dream dive if you could get a sub in. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 26/05/2017, at 9:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Here is a tiny video of a test lake that is on a friends property that is >> at my disposal. >> hank >> >> >> On Thursday, May 25, 2017 3:23 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: >> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dteT3wAZNBk >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 26 11:51:02 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 11:51:02 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <1984868163.44308.1495747675997@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1984868163.44308.1495747675997@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Wow, that's going to be not just a test but a very cool dive. Can't wait to see video in that sort of visibility! Alec On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 5:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Here is a tiny video of a test lake that is on a friends property that is > at my disposal. > hank > > > On Thursday, May 25, 2017 3:23 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dteT3wAZNBk > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2017-05-25 at 3.21 PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 9361 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 26 16:58:02 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 20:58:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: <1984868163.44308.1495747675997@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2138900915.903459.1495832282213@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,Unfortunately?it will be a year or more?before my submarines hit the water again.Hank On Friday, May 26, 2017 9:51 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Wow, that's going to be not just a test but a very cool dive. Can't wait to see video in that sort of visibility! Alec On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 5:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Here is a tiny video of a test lake that is on a friends property that is at my disposal.hank On Thursday, May 25, 2017 3:23 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=dteT3wAZNBk ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2017-05-25 at 3.21 PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 9361 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 26 18:11:28 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 18:11:28 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <2138900915.903459.1495832282213@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1984868163.44308.1495747675997@mail.yahoo.com> <2138900915.903459.1495832282213@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Uh-oh. How come? Are you making major changes? Alec On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 4:58 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, > Unfortunately it will be a year or more before my submarines hit the > water again. > Hank > > > On Friday, May 26, 2017 9:51 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Wow, that's going to be not just a test but a very cool dive. Can't wait > to see video in that sort of visibility! > > Alec > > On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 5:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Here is a tiny video of a test lake that is on a friends property that is > at my disposal. > hank > > > On Thursday, May 25, 2017 3:23 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=dteT3wAZNBk > > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2017-05-25 at 3.21 PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 9361 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 26 18:33:21 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 22:33:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: References: <1984868163.44308.1495747675997@mail.yahoo.com> <2138900915.903459.1495832282213@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <808545153.914000.1495838001473@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,No, no changes to the sub, just changes to life, I want to retire, my job is to hard! ?I am moving to my acreage, and the house and shop need a renovation. I am working on that for the next year.Hank On Friday, May 26, 2017 4:11 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Uh-oh. How come? Are you making major changes?? Alec On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 4:58 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,Unfortunately?it will be a year or more?before my submarines hit the water again.Hank On Friday, May 26, 2017 9:51 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Wow, that's going to be not just a test but a very cool dive. Can't wait to see video in that sort of visibility! Alec On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 5:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Here is a tiny video of a test lake that is on a friends property that is at my disposal.hank On Thursday, May 25, 2017 3:23 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=dteT3wAZNBk ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2017-05-25 at 3.21 PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 9361 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 26 22:31:56 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 19:31:56 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Message-ID: <20170526193156.327AE04A@m0117566.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 27 05:03:24 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 09:03:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: In-Reply-To: <20170526193156.327AE04A@m0117566.ppops.net> References: <20170526193156.327AE04A@m0117566.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1121958835.1178527.1495875804050@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,Thats the plan, just fun jobs. ?Next week I am sweeping the dust off my old submarine barge and putting it to work pulling dock piles to straighten them. ?Now that is a fun job!Hank On Friday, May 26, 2017 8:32 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? No more moving houses around ??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 22:33:21 +0000 (UTC) Alec,No, no changes to the sub, just changes to life, I want to retire, my job is to hard! ?I am moving to my acreage, and the house and shop need a renovation. I am working on that for the next year.Hank On Friday, May 26, 2017 4:11 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Uh-oh. How come? Are you making major changes?? Alec On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 4:58 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,Unfortunately?it will be a year or more?before my submarines hit the water again.Hank On Friday, May 26, 2017 9:51 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Wow, that's going to be not just a test but a very cool dive. Can't wait to see video in that sort of visibility! Alec On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 5:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Here is a tiny video of a test lake that is on a friends property that is at my disposal.hank On Thursday, May 25, 2017 3:23 PM, xxx xxxxx wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=dteT3wAZNBk ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 28 09:44:34 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 13:44:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U-Haul packing submarine References: <274732322.831878.1495979074551.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <274732322.831878.1495979074551@mail.yahoo.com> Helped my sister move yesterday. ?Thought you'd find this interesting. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DR1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 345310 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 28 10:50:04 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 10:50:04 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U-Haul packing submarine In-Reply-To: <274732322.831878.1495979074551@mail.yahoo.com> References: <274732322.831878.1495979074551.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <274732322.831878.1495979074551@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15c4f891bd9-77fb-18c88@webprd-m45.mail.aol.com> How cool is that? Vance -----Original Message----- From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Sun, May 28, 2017 9:45 am Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U-Haul packing submarine Helped my sister move yesterday. Thought you'd find this interesting. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 28 12:22:09 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 12:22:09 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U-Haul packing submarine In-Reply-To: <15c4f891bd9-77fb-18c88@webprd-m45.mail.aol.com> References: <274732322.831878.1495979074551.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <274732322.831878.1495979074551@mail.yahoo.com> <15c4f891bd9-77fb-18c88@webprd-m45.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: Get out! That's some cool artwork / advertising! ~ Douglas S. On 5/28/17, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > How cool is that? > Vance > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Sun, May 28, 2017 9:45 am > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U-Haul packing submarine > > > > > > Helped my sister move yesterday. Thought you'd find this interesting. > > > Jon > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 28 21:30:08 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 18:30:08 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U-Haul packing submarine In-Reply-To: References: <274732322.831878.1495979074551.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <274732322.831878.1495979074551@mail.yahoo.com> <15c4f891bd9-77fb-18c88@webprd-m45.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <04B82BAB49834443B7487F12A8B46F71@PhillPC> Hi, Guys! Yeah, that was put on the U-Haul trucks some years ago, after we were doing some science studies in Crater Lake, Oregon - U-Haul trucked ROVER up there and offered to forego charges if they could put an image on some of their trucks. Amazingly, there must be a number of them with the Rover still on, cuz we still get emails from friends all all over the country! Phil -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 9:22 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U-Haul packing submarine Get out! That's some cool artwork / advertising! ~ Douglas S. On 5/28/17, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > How cool is that? > Vance > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Sun, May 28, 2017 9:45 am > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U-Haul packing submarine > > > > > > Helped my sister move yesterday. Thought you'd find this interesting. > > > Jon > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 29 00:31:25 2017 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 00:31:25 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U-Haul packing submarine In-Reply-To: <04B82BAB49834443B7487F12A8B46F71@PhillPC> References: <274732322.831878.1495979074551.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <274732322.831878.1495979074551@mail.yahoo.com> <15c4f891bd9-77fb-18c88@webprd-m45.mail.aol.com> <04B82BAB49834443B7487F12A8B46F71@PhillPC> Message-ID: Thanks for the background info Phil. Kudos to U-Haul for leaving the advertising on... Something "little" like that might just inspire the next young explorer, submariner, marine biologist, etc. to take the next step. ~ Douglas S. On 5/28/17, Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi, Guys! > Yeah, that was put on the U-Haul trucks some years ago, after we were doing > > some science studies in Crater Lake, Oregon - U-Haul trucked ROVER up there > > and offered to forego charges if they could put an image on some of their > trucks. > Amazingly, there must be a number of them with the Rover still on, cuz we > still get emails from friends all all over the country! > Phil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 9:22 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U-Haul packing submarine > > Get out! That's some cool artwork / advertising! ~ Douglas S. > > On 5/28/17, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> How cool is that? >> Vance >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: personal_submersibles >> Sent: Sun, May 28, 2017 9:45 am >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U-Haul packing submarine >> >> >> >> >> >> Helped my sister move yesterday. Thought you'd find this interesting. >> >> >> Jon >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >