From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 1 13:35:13 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2018 08:35:13 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shell, downsizing In-Reply-To: <33CF2831-5ED6-4B66-8076-EE64D4A25978@yahoo.com> References: <20181029174110.AD0E89CE@m0117567.ppops.net> <39B2050B-6B49-470D-B9C7-9A1D754A81BE@yahoo.com> <33CF2831-5ED6-4B66-8076-EE64D4A25978@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi all, Thanks for your responses. I have industrial 02 bottles in my shop but by equalizing the bottles you would not get you a full bottle which I would prefer to have before going out. I could get an HP 02 transfer pump to do that but they are expensive. The Welding supply stores here have to send the bottles to Oahu to be filled and they won't fill a scuba tank with any kind of 02 and the dive shop as I said want's a tech cert which is costly to get so this ordeal has been quite frustrating! I did get an oxygen provider cert many years ago which this shop may accept (there trying to decide) but they expire and the only guy on the island that I know of able to give that course has left. Seems crazy that you can go out and but an assault rifle after passing a background check without proving to them you know how to use it and then shoot up the town but they make it so hard to purchase 02! Rick On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 2:52 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > I did a Padi Emergency Oxygen Provider course. > It was very short & the local dive store (Global dive) was happy selling > me O2 > here in Auckland with that certification. You can quote me if your store > isn't sure. > In my case I approached them & they only needed a few more interested > people > to run the course. > Cheers Alan > > > On 1/12/2018, at 12:31 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Checked into buying 2 aluminum 80,s from the shop here on the Big Island > and they will sell me the 02 cleaned tanks but won't fill them with 02 > unless I have a tech divers certificate or some such thing. What have > others done? > Rick > > On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 3:14 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Brian, >> congratulations on getting that mold done, glad it came out ok. >> Know what you mean about accumulating stuff; I have spent the last few >> days buying racking & clear plastic containers & organising my sub stuff. >> I have been buying electronics that I already had. Great putting stuff in >> clear plastic bins so I know what I've got! >> Alan >> >> >> On 30/10/2018, at 1:41 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> I successfully made my mold for my shell /cover for my >> sub , now I'm just fixing some imperfections that occurred when >> separating the parts . I've been inquiring into a truck strong enough to >> haul my sub but it turns out all the older trucks are now banned in >> Kalifornia, there are trucks around but they are illegal to have on the >> road, really sucks. So I guess in the long run I'm better off just hiring >> somebody to haul it . This state is so messed up. Also I'm doing an >> extreme downsizing , I'm moving out of my rented shop and just going to my >> house now to work from. I'll be keeping the sub on the side part of our >> property. I'm kind of re leaved to get out of that shop simple because >> I've accumulated so much crap ! Better to simplify things. >> >> Brian >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 1 15:46:02 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2018 10:46:02 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shell, downsizing In-Reply-To: References: <20181029174110.AD0E89CE@m0117567.ppops.net> <39B2050B-6B49-470D-B9C7-9A1D754A81BE@yahoo.com> <33CF2831-5ED6-4B66-8076-EE64D4A25978@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alec Yes that's what I have herd as well. I think the only thing different between med 02 and industrial 02 is that med 02 is a little dryer and more expensive because it has the word "medical" on it. I originally checked into using small industrial tanks but changed my thought process to Scuba tanks due to going with aluminum for weight and non rust reasons. I will only see salt water where I am. How many cubic feet are they what is the length and diameter and cost you paid if you remember as it is looking more and more like that is what I am going to have to do. Thanks Rick On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 8:35 AM Rick Patton wrote: > Hi all, > > Thanks for your responses. > I have industrial 02 bottles in my shop but by equalizing the bottles you > would not get you a full bottle which I would prefer to have before going > out. I could get an HP 02 transfer pump to do that but they are expensive. > The Welding supply stores here have to send the bottles to Oahu to be > filled and they won't fill a scuba tank with any kind of 02 and the dive > shop as I said want's a tech cert which is costly to get so this ordeal has > been quite frustrating! > I did get an oxygen provider cert many years ago which this shop may > accept (there trying to decide) but they expire and the only guy on the > island that I know of able to give that course has left. Seems crazy that > you can go out and but an assault rifle after passing a background check > without proving to them you know how to use it and then shoot up the town > but they make it so hard to purchase 02! > Rick > > On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 2:52 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Rick, >> I did a Padi Emergency Oxygen Provider course. >> It was very short & the local dive store (Global dive) was happy selling >> me O2 >> here in Auckland with that certification. You can quote me if your store >> isn't sure. >> In my case I approached them & they only needed a few more interested >> people >> to run the course. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> On 1/12/2018, at 12:31 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Checked into buying 2 aluminum 80,s from the shop here on the Big Island >> and they will sell me the 02 cleaned tanks but won't fill them with 02 >> unless I have a tech divers certificate or some such thing. What have >> others done? >> Rick >> >> On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 3:14 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Brian, >>> congratulations on getting that mold done, glad it came out ok. >>> Know what you mean about accumulating stuff; I have spent the last few >>> days buying racking & clear plastic containers & organising my sub stuff. >>> I have been buying electronics that I already had. Great putting stuff >>> in >>> clear plastic bins so I know what I've got! >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> On 30/10/2018, at 1:41 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Hi All, >>> I successfully made my mold for my shell /cover for my >>> sub , now I'm just fixing some imperfections that occurred when >>> separating the parts . I've been inquiring into a truck strong enough to >>> haul my sub but it turns out all the older trucks are now banned in >>> Kalifornia, there are trucks around but they are illegal to have on the >>> road, really sucks. So I guess in the long run I'm better off just hiring >>> somebody to haul it . This state is so messed up. Also I'm doing an >>> extreme downsizing , I'm moving out of my rented shop and just going to my >>> house now to work from. I'll be keeping the sub on the side part of our >>> property. I'm kind of re leaved to get out of that shop simple because >>> I've accumulated so much crap ! Better to simplify things. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 1 20:33:29 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2018 14:33:29 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shell, downsizing In-Reply-To: References: <20181029174110.AD0E89CE@m0117567.ppops.net> <39B2050B-6B49-470D-B9C7-9A1D754A81BE@yahoo.com> <33CF2831-5ED6-4B66-8076-EE64D4A25978@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Rick, can you do a Padi emergency O2 providers course on Oahu? It only took me a couple of nights of about 2hrs each night. The reason I went that way is that I knew With that cert. I could get O2 throughout the country from dive stores that had O2. Plus, as you say, the Aluminium tanks are suitable for a marine environment. The other option is to get a mate who is a technical diver to fill them for you. BTW they only fill them with O2 to 2000psi. Alan > On 2/12/2018, at 7:35 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi all, > > Thanks for your responses. > I have industrial 02 bottles in my shop but by equalizing the bottles you would not get you a full bottle which I would prefer to have before going out. I could get an HP 02 transfer pump to do that but they are expensive. > The Welding supply stores here have to send the bottles to Oahu to be filled and they won't fill a scuba tank with any kind of 02 and the dive shop as I said want's a tech cert which is costly to get so this ordeal has been quite frustrating! > I did get an oxygen provider cert many years ago which this shop may accept (there trying to decide) but they expire and the only guy on the island that I know of able to give that course has left. Seems crazy that you can go out and but an assault rifle after passing a background check without proving to them you know how to use it and then shoot up the town but they make it so hard to purchase 02! > Rick > >> On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 2:52 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Rick, >> I did a Padi Emergency Oxygen Provider course. >> It was very short & the local dive store (Global dive) was happy selling me O2 >> here in Auckland with that certification. You can quote me if your store isn't sure. >> In my case I approached them & they only needed a few more interested people >> to run the course. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >>> On 1/12/2018, at 12:31 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Checked into buying 2 aluminum 80,s from the shop here on the Big Island and they will sell me the 02 cleaned tanks but won't fill them with 02 unless I have a tech divers certificate or some such thing. What have others done? >>> Rick >>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 3:14 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Brian, >>>> congratulations on getting that mold done, glad it came out ok. >>>> Know what you mean about accumulating stuff; I have spent the last few >>>> days buying racking & clear plastic containers & organising my sub stuff. >>>> I have been buying electronics that I already had. Great putting stuff in >>>> clear plastic bins so I know what I've got! >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 30/10/2018, at 1:41 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi All, >>>>> I successfully made my mold for my shell /cover for my sub , now I'm just fixing some imperfections that occurred when separating the parts . I've been inquiring into a truck strong enough to haul my sub but it turns out all the older trucks are now banned in Kalifornia, there are trucks around but they are illegal to have on the road, really sucks. So I guess in the long run I'm better off just hiring somebody to haul it . This state is so messed up. Also I'm doing an extreme downsizing , I'm moving out of my rented shop and just going to my house now to work from. I'll be keeping the sub on the side part of our property. I'm kind of re leaved to get out of that shop simple because I've accumulated so much crap ! Better to simplify things. >>>>> >>>>> Brian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 1 21:14:49 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2018 18:14:49 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shell, downsizing Message-ID: <20181201181449.57FCB2B8@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 2 14:46:55 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2018 09:46:55 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shell, downsizing In-Reply-To: <20181201181449.57FCB2B8@m0117460.ppops.net> References: <20181201181449.57FCB2B8@m0117460.ppops.net> Message-ID: Thanks guys I don't like the idea of having to have my tanks shipped off Island to be filled so if I can find a tech diver guy who will fill them for me or I will go to plan B and just use industrial 02 where I don't need a special license and can just swap them out like Alec. Rick On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 4:15 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, What you need to do is get the Medical bottle on E-Bay, don't try > to buy it from a legit medical supply because they will most likely not > sell it to you. Then what you do is tell your dive shop that you are going > on a private boat dive and you would like to have some O2 on hand just as a > safety measure for divers that may need oxygen on the surface . Most dive > boats usually would have O2 on board. Sean could probably speak to this > better. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: psubs chat room > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shell, downsizing > Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2018 10:46:02 -1000 > > Alec > Yes that's what I have herd as well. I think the only thing different > between med 02 and industrial 02 is that med 02 is a little dryer and more > expensive because it has the word "medical" on it. I originally checked > into using small industrial tanks but changed my thought process to Scuba > tanks due to going with aluminum for weight and non rust reasons. I will > only see salt water where I am. How many cubic feet are they what is the > length and diameter and cost you paid if you remember as it is looking more > and more like that is what I am going to have to do. > Thanks > Rick > > On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 8:35 AM Rick Patton wrote: > > Hi all, > > Thanks for your responses. > I have industrial 02 bottles in my shop but by equalizing the bottles you > would not get you a full bottle which I would prefer to have before going > out. I could get an HP 02 transfer pump to do that but they are expensive. > The Welding supply stores here have to send the bottles to Oahu to be > filled and they won't fill a scuba tank with any kind of 02 and the dive > shop as I said want's a tech cert which is costly to get so this ordeal has > been quite frustrating! > I did get an oxygen provider cert many years ago which this shop may > accept (there trying to decide) but they expire and the only guy on the > island that I know of able to give that course has left. Seems crazy that > you can go out and but an assault rifle after passing a background check > without proving to them you know how to use it and then shoot up the town > but they make it so hard to purchase 02! > Rick > > On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 2:52 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Rick, > I did a Padi Emergency Oxygen Provider course. > It was very short & the local dive store (Global dive) was happy selling > me O2 > here in Auckland with that certification. You can quote me if your store > isn't sure. > In my case I approached them & they only needed a few more interested > people > to run the course. > Cheers Alan > > > On 1/12/2018, at 12:31 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Checked into buying 2 aluminum 80,s from the shop here on the Big Island > and they will sell me the 02 cleaned tanks but won't fill them with 02 > unless I have a tech divers certificate or some such thing. What have > others done? > Rick > > On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 3:14 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Brian, > congratulations on getting that mold done, glad it came out ok. > Know what you mean about accumulating stuff; I have spent the last few > days buying racking & clear plastic containers & organising my sub stuff. > I have been buying electronics that I already had. Great putting stuff in > clear plastic bins so I know what I've got! > Alan > > > On 30/10/2018, at 1:41 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi All, > I successfully made my mold for my shell /cover for my sub > , now I'm just fixing some imperfections that occurred when separating the > parts . I've been inquiring into a truck strong enough to haul my sub but > it turns out all the older trucks are now banned in Kalifornia, there are > trucks around but they are illegal to have on the road, really sucks. So I > guess in the long run I'm better off just hiring somebody to haul it . > This state is so messed up. Also I'm doing an extreme downsizing , I'm > moving out of my rented shop and just going to my house now to work from. > I'll be keeping the sub on the side part of our property. I'm kind of re > leaved to get out of that shop simple because I've accumulated so much crap > ! Better to simplify things. > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 2 22:49:47 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2018 22:49:47 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shell, downsizing In-Reply-To: References: <20181029174110.AD0E89CE@m0117567.ppops.net> <39B2050B-6B49-470D-B9C7-9A1D754A81BE@yahoo.com> <33CF2831-5ED6-4B66-8076-EE64D4A25978@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Rick, Shackleton carries two 80cf tanks of O2. The ABS requirement is 72 hours plus mission time, with consumption calculated at a rate of 1cf/man hour, so one of these tanks per person satisfies them. The tanks are 7" in diameter and about 34" tall including the valve. Sorry, can't recall the price. The system of swapping out takes care of hydro, maintenance, rust, etc. Best, Alec On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 3:47 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec > Yes that's what I have herd as well. I think the only thing different > between med 02 and industrial 02 is that med 02 is a little dryer and more > expensive because it has the word "medical" on it. I originally checked > into using small industrial tanks but changed my thought process to Scuba > tanks due to going with aluminum for weight and non rust reasons. I will > only see salt water where I am. How many cubic feet are they what is the > length and diameter and cost you paid if you remember as it is looking more > and more like that is what I am going to have to do. > Thanks > Rick > > On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 8:35 AM Rick Patton wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> Thanks for your responses. >> I have industrial 02 bottles in my shop but by equalizing the bottles you >> would not get you a full bottle which I would prefer to have before going >> out. I could get an HP 02 transfer pump to do that but they are expensive. >> The Welding supply stores here have to send the bottles to Oahu to be >> filled and they won't fill a scuba tank with any kind of 02 and the dive >> shop as I said want's a tech cert which is costly to get so this ordeal has >> been quite frustrating! >> I did get an oxygen provider cert many years ago which this shop may >> accept (there trying to decide) but they expire and the only guy on the >> island that I know of able to give that course has left. Seems crazy that >> you can go out and but an assault rifle after passing a background check >> without proving to them you know how to use it and then shoot up the town >> but they make it so hard to purchase 02! >> Rick >> >> On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 2:52 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Rick, >>> I did a Padi Emergency Oxygen Provider course. >>> It was very short & the local dive store (Global dive) was happy selling >>> me O2 >>> here in Auckland with that certification. You can quote me if your store >>> isn't sure. >>> In my case I approached them & they only needed a few more interested >>> people >>> to run the course. >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> >>> On 1/12/2018, at 12:31 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Checked into buying 2 aluminum 80,s from the shop here on the Big Island >>> and they will sell me the 02 cleaned tanks but won't fill them with 02 >>> unless I have a tech divers certificate or some such thing. What have >>> others done? >>> Rick >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 3:14 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Brian, >>>> congratulations on getting that mold done, glad it came out ok. >>>> Know what you mean about accumulating stuff; I have spent the last few >>>> days buying racking & clear plastic containers & organising my sub >>>> stuff. >>>> I have been buying electronics that I already had. Great putting stuff >>>> in >>>> clear plastic bins so I know what I've got! >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> On 30/10/2018, at 1:41 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> I successfully made my mold for my shell /cover for my >>>> sub , now I'm just fixing some imperfections that occurred when >>>> separating the parts . I've been inquiring into a truck strong enough to >>>> haul my sub but it turns out all the older trucks are now banned in >>>> Kalifornia, there are trucks around but they are illegal to have on the >>>> road, really sucks. So I guess in the long run I'm better off just hiring >>>> somebody to haul it . This state is so messed up. Also I'm doing an >>>> extreme downsizing , I'm moving out of my rented shop and just going to my >>>> house now to work from. I'll be keeping the sub on the side part of our >>>> property. I'm kind of re leaved to get out of that shop simple because >>>> I've accumulated so much crap ! Better to simplify things. >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 3 13:00:34 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2018 08:00:34 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shell, downsizing In-Reply-To: References: <20181029174110.AD0E89CE@m0117567.ppops.net> <39B2050B-6B49-470D-B9C7-9A1D754A81BE@yahoo.com> <33CF2831-5ED6-4B66-8076-EE64D4A25978@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Alec Sounds like that is going to be the best solution for me to go with. I already purchased 2, 02 cleaned first stage regulators for a normal scuba tank valve but I am sure I should be able to find a CGA to scuba first stage adapter somewhere. Anyone out there know a good source for that? Rick On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 5:51 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Rick, > > Shackleton carries two 80cf tanks of O2. The ABS requirement is 72 hours > plus mission time, with consumption calculated at a rate of 1cf/man hour, > so one of these tanks per person satisfies them. The tanks are 7" in > diameter and about 34" tall including the valve. Sorry, can't recall the > price. The system of swapping out takes care of hydro, maintenance, rust, > etc. > > Best, > Alec > > On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 3:47 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Alec >> Yes that's what I have herd as well. I think the only thing different >> between med 02 and industrial 02 is that med 02 is a little dryer and more >> expensive because it has the word "medical" on it. I originally checked >> into using small industrial tanks but changed my thought process to Scuba >> tanks due to going with aluminum for weight and non rust reasons. I will >> only see salt water where I am. How many cubic feet are they what is the >> length and diameter and cost you paid if you remember as it is looking more >> and more like that is what I am going to have to do. >> Thanks >> Rick >> >> On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 8:35 AM Rick Patton wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Thanks for your responses. >>> I have industrial 02 bottles in my shop but by equalizing the bottles >>> you would not get you a full bottle which I would prefer to have before >>> going out. I could get an HP 02 transfer pump to do that but they are >>> expensive. >>> The Welding supply stores here have to send the bottles to Oahu to be >>> filled and they won't fill a scuba tank with any kind of 02 and the dive >>> shop as I said want's a tech cert which is costly to get so this ordeal has >>> been quite frustrating! >>> I did get an oxygen provider cert many years ago which this shop may >>> accept (there trying to decide) but they expire and the only guy on the >>> island that I know of able to give that course has left. Seems crazy that >>> you can go out and but an assault rifle after passing a background check >>> without proving to them you know how to use it and then shoot up the town >>> but they make it so hard to purchase 02! >>> Rick >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 2:52 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Rick, >>>> I did a Padi Emergency Oxygen Provider course. >>>> It was very short & the local dive store (Global dive) was happy >>>> selling me O2 >>>> here in Auckland with that certification. You can quote me if your >>>> store isn't sure. >>>> In my case I approached them & they only needed a few more interested >>>> people >>>> to run the course. >>>> Cheers Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> On 1/12/2018, at 12:31 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> Checked into buying 2 aluminum 80,s from the shop here on the Big >>>> Island and they will sell me the 02 cleaned tanks but won't fill them with >>>> 02 unless I have a tech divers certificate or some such thing. What have >>>> others done? >>>> Rick >>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 3:14 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Brian, >>>>> congratulations on getting that mold done, glad it came out ok. >>>>> Know what you mean about accumulating stuff; I have spent the last few >>>>> days buying racking & clear plastic containers & organising my sub >>>>> stuff. >>>>> I have been buying electronics that I already had. Great putting stuff >>>>> in >>>>> clear plastic bins so I know what I've got! >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 30/10/2018, at 1:41 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi All, >>>>> I successfully made my mold for my shell /cover for my >>>>> sub , now I'm just fixing some imperfections that occurred when >>>>> separating the parts . I've been inquiring into a truck strong enough to >>>>> haul my sub but it turns out all the older trucks are now banned in >>>>> Kalifornia, there are trucks around but they are illegal to have on the >>>>> road, really sucks. So I guess in the long run I'm better off just hiring >>>>> somebody to haul it . This state is so messed up. Also I'm doing an >>>>> extreme downsizing , I'm moving out of my rented shop and just going to my >>>>> house now to work from. I'll be keeping the sub on the side part of our >>>>> property. I'm kind of re leaved to get out of that shop simple because >>>>> I've accumulated so much crap ! Better to simplify things. >>>>> >>>>> Brian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 3 13:58:05 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2018 08:58:05 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shell, downsizing In-Reply-To: References: <20181029174110.AD0E89CE@m0117567.ppops.net> <39B2050B-6B49-470D-B9C7-9A1D754A81BE@yahoo.com> <33CF2831-5ED6-4B66-8076-EE64D4A25978@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alec, What gas company are you dealing with? There are only 2 companies on the big island, Mathason and air gas and non of them have an 80 cu ft 02 bottle. Rick On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 5:51 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Rick, > > Shackleton carries two 80cf tanks of O2. The ABS requirement is 72 hours > plus mission time, with consumption calculated at a rate of 1cf/man hour, > so one of these tanks per person satisfies them. The tanks are 7" in > diameter and about 34" tall including the valve. Sorry, can't recall the > price. The system of swapping out takes care of hydro, maintenance, rust, > etc. > > Best, > Alec > > On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 3:47 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Alec >> Yes that's what I have herd as well. I think the only thing different >> between med 02 and industrial 02 is that med 02 is a little dryer and more >> expensive because it has the word "medical" on it. I originally checked >> into using small industrial tanks but changed my thought process to Scuba >> tanks due to going with aluminum for weight and non rust reasons. I will >> only see salt water where I am. How many cubic feet are they what is the >> length and diameter and cost you paid if you remember as it is looking more >> and more like that is what I am going to have to do. >> Thanks >> Rick >> >> On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 8:35 AM Rick Patton wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Thanks for your responses. >>> I have industrial 02 bottles in my shop but by equalizing the bottles >>> you would not get you a full bottle which I would prefer to have before >>> going out. I could get an HP 02 transfer pump to do that but they are >>> expensive. >>> The Welding supply stores here have to send the bottles to Oahu to be >>> filled and they won't fill a scuba tank with any kind of 02 and the dive >>> shop as I said want's a tech cert which is costly to get so this ordeal has >>> been quite frustrating! >>> I did get an oxygen provider cert many years ago which this shop may >>> accept (there trying to decide) but they expire and the only guy on the >>> island that I know of able to give that course has left. Seems crazy that >>> you can go out and but an assault rifle after passing a background check >>> without proving to them you know how to use it and then shoot up the town >>> but they make it so hard to purchase 02! >>> Rick >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 2:52 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Rick, >>>> I did a Padi Emergency Oxygen Provider course. >>>> It was very short & the local dive store (Global dive) was happy >>>> selling me O2 >>>> here in Auckland with that certification. You can quote me if your >>>> store isn't sure. >>>> In my case I approached them & they only needed a few more interested >>>> people >>>> to run the course. >>>> Cheers Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> On 1/12/2018, at 12:31 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> Checked into buying 2 aluminum 80,s from the shop here on the Big >>>> Island and they will sell me the 02 cleaned tanks but won't fill them with >>>> 02 unless I have a tech divers certificate or some such thing. What have >>>> others done? >>>> Rick >>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 3:14 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Brian, >>>>> congratulations on getting that mold done, glad it came out ok. >>>>> Know what you mean about accumulating stuff; I have spent the last few >>>>> days buying racking & clear plastic containers & organising my sub >>>>> stuff. >>>>> I have been buying electronics that I already had. Great putting stuff >>>>> in >>>>> clear plastic bins so I know what I've got! >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 30/10/2018, at 1:41 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi All, >>>>> I successfully made my mold for my shell /cover for my >>>>> sub , now I'm just fixing some imperfections that occurred when >>>>> separating the parts . I've been inquiring into a truck strong enough to >>>>> haul my sub but it turns out all the older trucks are now banned in >>>>> Kalifornia, there are trucks around but they are illegal to have on the >>>>> road, really sucks. So I guess in the long run I'm better off just hiring >>>>> somebody to haul it . This state is so messed up. Also I'm doing an >>>>> extreme downsizing , I'm moving out of my rented shop and just going to my >>>>> house now to work from. I'll be keeping the sub on the side part of our >>>>> property. I'm kind of re leaved to get out of that shop simple because >>>>> I've accumulated so much crap ! Better to simplify things. >>>>> >>>>> Brian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 3 19:29:57 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2018 19:29:57 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton test report Message-ID: Hi friends, Today with Mark Ragan and Brian Hughes' help I'm delighted to say we were able to sneak a test in just before winter makes its appearance. It was tee shirt weather, with high tide at the warmest time of day. You may not be familiar with Shackleton, so here's a summary. She uses the main cylinder of an earlier project called Solo, which was to be a hydrobatic sub and therefore had a very slender (i.e. only 31" diameter) main hull. Solo lost her wings and tail but gained battery pods, a CT, a deck, etc. Shackleton herself has already been through several iterations, specifically of the MBTs. In the first iteration I made a big mistake - I concentrated my calculations on submerged stability, just assuming the MBTs would provide stability when surfaced. Nope! The second iteration used a raft MBT, which is far more stable than the streamlined hull-hugging initial version. That solved the surfaced stability issue. However, it had a new problem. The raft was composed of a bunch of small aluminum tanks, plumbed to valves on the CT just like a Kittredge sub. The problem was that the plumbing had do cover quite a distance and suffered from water blocking. This is the third iteration, and uses a raft of four MBTs but with mushroom valves rather than the K boat arrangement. Water blocking can't happen because mushroom valves go straight on the tanks and have no plumbing at all. I can already say that although it took me a while to arrive at, I'm a fan of the raft configuration implemented with mushroom valves. BTW the valves are controlled in pairs, so the pilot can open or shut the two forward valves or the two aft ones independently. What worked well: - As mentioned, the raft MBT provided good stability. - The boat floated at the calculated waterline and in trim. - The vertical thrusters blow water through the deck grating. I was curious how much efficiency this would cost, but it appears a very acceptable compromise. - The four thrusters are jettisonable. They are held against the hull by a bolt, and they seat against electrical connectors that are insulated from the water by an O ring. I have a short-detection circuit to make sure those O rings aren't leaking. I used it, and found no leaks. Thruster controls worked great. - The boat uses a combination of trawl floats and steel ballast to adjust buoyancy, with no VBT. Today's test was with just one person aboard, and in salt water. In other words, the scenario that calls for max ballast. We turned out to be balanced with a tad less than the full complement of weights - the theoretical numbers turned out near perfect. - I love the fast submergence! Needs work: - The thrusters are fine going forward but quite miserable in reverse. I think this is due to a combination of two factors. First, in reverse the prop wash hits the MBTs - I can't really do anything about that. Second, I'm using after market props that are supposedly faster than the stock Minnkotas. But I think they accomplish that by being biased for forward motion. I'll be switching back to the stock props. - Two of the mushroom valves don't seal 100%. I'll be putting in slightly thicker O rings to see if that stops it. - The hatch leaked, even though it didn't on past tests and didn't when I tested water-tightness with a vacuum two days ago. The hatch is bolted to its hinge, and washers on those bolts adjust the fit. This is just something to tinker with, but I know it can seal successfully. Unfortunately I have to remove the hatch each time the sub goes in and out, to fit under the garage door opening. And now... let winter move in! The next step will be a nice spring day dialing in ballast configurations for one or two occupants. Thanks, Alec -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 47258859_10217781304468113_8654460041761390592_o.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 159153 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 3 20:05:56 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2018 17:05:56 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton test report Message-ID: <730149791.9932.1543885556567@wamui-jelly.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 3 20:12:59 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2018 20:12:59 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton test report In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20181204011259.8F74R.10370.root@cdptpa-web02> Congrats! Thanks for the report. Sounds like you picked the right day as well : ) Thanks, Steve ---- Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi friends, > > Today with Mark Ragan and Brian Hughes' help I'm delighted to say we were > able to sneak a test in just before winter makes its appearance. It was tee > shirt weather, with high tide at the warmest time of day. > > You may not be familiar with Shackleton, so here's a summary. She uses the > main cylinder of an earlier project called Solo, which was to be a > hydrobatic sub and therefore had a very slender (i.e. only 31" diameter) > main hull. Solo lost her wings and tail but gained battery pods, a CT, a > deck, etc. Shackleton herself has already been through several iterations, > specifically of the MBTs. In the first iteration I made a big mistake - I > concentrated my calculations on submerged stability, just assuming the MBTs > would provide stability when surfaced. Nope! The second iteration used a > raft MBT, which is far more stable than the streamlined hull-hugging > initial version. That solved the surfaced stability issue. However, it had > a new problem. The raft was composed of a bunch of small aluminum tanks, > plumbed to valves on the CT just like a Kittredge sub. The problem was that > the plumbing had do cover quite a distance and suffered from water > blocking. This is the third iteration, and uses a raft of four MBTs but > with mushroom valves rather than the K boat arrangement. Water blocking > can't happen because mushroom valves go straight on the tanks and have no > plumbing at all. I can already say that although it took me a while to > arrive at, I'm a fan of the raft configuration implemented with mushroom > valves. BTW the valves are controlled in pairs, so the pilot can open or > shut the two forward valves or the two aft ones independently. > > What worked well: > - As mentioned, the raft MBT provided good stability. > - The boat floated at the calculated waterline and in trim. > - The vertical thrusters blow water through the deck grating. I was curious > how much efficiency this would cost, but it appears a very acceptable > compromise. > - The four thrusters are jettisonable. They are held against the hull by a > bolt, and they seat against electrical connectors that are insulated from > the water by an O ring. I have a short-detection circuit to make sure those > O rings aren't leaking. I used it, and found no leaks. Thruster controls > worked great. > - The boat uses a combination of trawl floats and steel ballast to adjust > buoyancy, with no VBT. Today's test was with just one person aboard, and in > salt water. In other words, the scenario that calls for max ballast. We > turned out to be balanced with a tad less than the full complement of > weights - the theoretical numbers turned out near perfect. > - I love the fast submergence! > > Needs work: > - The thrusters are fine going forward but quite miserable in reverse. I > think this is due to a combination of two factors. First, in reverse the > prop wash hits the MBTs - I can't really do anything about that. Second, > I'm using after market props that are supposedly faster than the stock > Minnkotas. But I think they accomplish that by being biased for forward > motion. I'll be switching back to the stock props. > - Two of the mushroom valves don't seal 100%. I'll be putting in slightly > thicker O rings to see if that stops it. > - The hatch leaked, even though it didn't on past tests and didn't when I > tested water-tightness with a vacuum two days ago. The hatch is bolted to > its hinge, and washers on those bolts adjust the fit. This is just > something to tinker with, but I know it can seal successfully. > Unfortunately I have to remove the hatch each time the sub goes in and out, > to fit under the garage door opening. > > And now... let winter move in! The next step will be a nice spring day > dialing in ballast configurations for one or two occupants. > > Thanks, > Alec From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 3 23:01:38 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2018 17:01:38 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton test report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for that great report Alec. Glad it went well. Alan > On 4/12/2018, at 1:29 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi friends, > > Today with Mark Ragan and Brian Hughes' help I'm delighted to say we were able to sneak a test in just before winter makes its appearance. It was tee shirt weather, with high tide at the warmest time of day. > > You may not be familiar with Shackleton, so here's a summary. She uses the main cylinder of an earlier project called Solo, which was to be a hydrobatic sub and therefore had a very slender (i.e. only 31" diameter) main hull. Solo lost her wings and tail but gained battery pods, a CT, a deck, etc. Shackleton herself has already been through several iterations, specifically of the MBTs. In the first iteration I made a big mistake - I concentrated my calculations on submerged stability, just assuming the MBTs would provide stability when surfaced. Nope! The second iteration used a raft MBT, which is far more stable than the streamlined hull-hugging initial version. That solved the surfaced stability issue. However, it had a new problem. The raft was composed of a bunch of small aluminum tanks, plumbed to valves on the CT just like a Kittredge sub. The problem was that the plumbing had do cover quite a distance and suffered from water blocking. This is the third iteration, and uses a raft of four MBTs but with mushroom valves rather than the K boat arrangement. Water blocking can't happen because mushroom valves go straight on the tanks and have no plumbing at all. I can already say that although it took me a while to arrive at, I'm a fan of the raft configuration implemented with mushroom valves. BTW the valves are controlled in pairs, so the pilot can open or shut the two forward valves or the two aft ones independently. > > What worked well: > - As mentioned, the raft MBT provided good stability. > - The boat floated at the calculated waterline and in trim. > - The vertical thrusters blow water through the deck grating. I was curious how much efficiency this would cost, but it appears a very acceptable compromise. > - The four thrusters are jettisonable. They are held against the hull by a bolt, and they seat against electrical connectors that are insulated from the water by an O ring. I have a short-detection circuit to make sure those O rings aren't leaking. I used it, and found no leaks. Thruster controls worked great. > - The boat uses a combination of trawl floats and steel ballast to adjust buoyancy, with no VBT. Today's test was with just one person aboard, and in salt water. In other words, the scenario that calls for max ballast. We turned out to be balanced with a tad less than the full complement of weights - the theoretical numbers turned out near perfect. > - I love the fast submergence! > > Needs work: > - The thrusters are fine going forward but quite miserable in reverse. I think this is due to a combination of two factors. First, in reverse the prop wash hits the MBTs - I can't really do anything about that. Second, I'm using after market props that are supposedly faster than the stock Minnkotas. But I think they accomplish that by being biased for forward motion. I'll be switching back to the stock props. > - Two of the mushroom valves don't seal 100%. I'll be putting in slightly thicker O rings to see if that stops it. > - The hatch leaked, even though it didn't on past tests and didn't when I tested water-tightness with a vacuum two days ago. The hatch is bolted to its hinge, and washers on those bolts adjust the fit. This is just something to tinker with, but I know it can seal successfully. Unfortunately I have to remove the hatch each time the sub goes in and out, to fit under the garage door opening. > > And now... let winter move in! The next step will be a nice spring day dialing in ballast configurations for one or two occupants. > > Thanks, > Alec > <47258859_10217781304468113_8654460041761390592_o.jpg> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 3 23:59:46 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2018 17:59:46 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton test report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <025001d48b8e$300444b0$900cce10$@gmail.com> Well done Alec. Regards, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 4 December 2018 1:30 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton test report Hi friends, Today with Mark Ragan and Brian Hughes' help I'm delighted to say we were able to sneak a test in just before winter makes its appearance. It was tee shirt weather, with high tide at the warmest time of day. You may not be familiar with Shackleton, so here's a summary. She uses the main cylinder of an earlier project called Solo, which was to be a hydrobatic sub and therefore had a very slender (i.e. only 31" diameter) main hull. Solo lost her wings and tail but gained battery pods, a CT, a deck, etc. Shackleton herself has already been through several iterations, specifically of the MBTs. In the first iteration I made a big mistake - I concentrated my calculations on submerged stability, just assuming the MBTs would provide stability when surfaced. Nope! The second iteration used a raft MBT, which is far more stable than the streamlined hull-hugging initial version. That solved the surfaced stability issue. However, it had a new problem. The raft was composed of a bunch of small aluminum tanks, plumbed to valves on the CT just like a Kittredge sub. The problem was that the plumbing had do cover quite a distance and suffered from water blocking. This is the third iteration, and uses a raft of four MBTs but with mushroom valves rather than the K boat arrangement. Water blocking can't happen because mushroom valves go straight on the tanks and have no plumbing at all. I can already say that although it took me a while to arrive at, I'm a fan of the raft configuration implemented with mushroom valves. BTW the valves are controlled in pairs, so the pilot can open or shut the two forward valves or the two aft ones independently. What worked well: - As mentioned, the raft MBT provided good stability. - The boat floated at the calculated waterline and in trim. - The vertical thrusters blow water through the deck grating. I was curious how much efficiency this would cost, but it appears a very acceptable compromise. - The four thrusters are jettisonable. They are held against the hull by a bolt, and they seat against electrical connectors that are insulated from the water by an O ring. I have a short-detection circuit to make sure those O rings aren't leaking. I used it, and found no leaks. Thruster controls worked great. - The boat uses a combination of trawl floats and steel ballast to adjust buoyancy, with no VBT. Today's test was with just one person aboard, and in salt water. In other words, the scenario that calls for max ballast. We turned out to be balanced with a tad less than the full complement of weights - the theoretical numbers turned out near perfect. - I love the fast submergence! Needs work: - The thrusters are fine going forward but quite miserable in reverse. I think this is due to a combination of two factors. First, in reverse the prop wash hits the MBTs - I can't really do anything about that. Second, I'm using after market props that are supposedly faster than the stock Minnkotas. But I think they accomplish that by being biased for forward motion. I'll be switching back to the stock props. - Two of the mushroom valves don't seal 100%. I'll be putting in slightly thicker O rings to see if that stops it. - The hatch leaked, even though it didn't on past tests and didn't when I tested water-tightness with a vacuum two days ago. The hatch is bolted to its hinge, and washers on those bolts adjust the fit. This is just something to tinker with, but I know it can seal successfully. Unfortunately I have to remove the hatch each time the sub goes in and out, to fit under the garage door opening. And now... let winter move in! The next step will be a nice spring day dialing in ballast configurations for one or two occupants. Thanks, Alec -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 4 08:05:05 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2018 13:05:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton test report In-Reply-To: <025001d48b8e$300444b0$900cce10$@gmail.com> References: <025001d48b8e$300444b0$900cce10$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <988903464.1476745.1543928705497@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,Boy I like that deck! ?Well done!Hank On Monday, December 3, 2018, 10:00:10 PM MST, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv4097220308 #yiv4097220308 -- _filtered #yiv4097220308 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv4097220308 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv4097220308 #yiv4097220308 p.yiv4097220308MsoNormal, #yiv4097220308 li.yiv4097220308MsoNormal, #yiv4097220308 div.yiv4097220308MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New;}#yiv4097220308 a:link, #yiv4097220308 span.yiv4097220308MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4097220308 a:visited, #yiv4097220308 span.yiv4097220308MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4097220308 span.yiv4097220308EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv4097220308 .yiv4097220308MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv4097220308 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv4097220308 div.yiv4097220308WordSection1 {}#yiv4097220308 Well done Alec. Regards, Hugh ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 4 December 2018 1:30 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton test report ? Hi friends, ? Today with Mark Ragan and Brian Hughes' help I'm delighted to say we were able to sneak a test in just before winter makes its appearance. It was tee shirt weather, with high tide at the warmest time of day.? ? You may not be familiar with Shackleton, so here's a summary. She uses the main cylinder of an earlier project called Solo, which was to be a hydrobatic sub and therefore had a very slender (i.e. only 31" diameter) main hull. Solo lost her wings and tail but gained battery pods, a CT, a deck, etc. Shackleton herself has already been through several iterations, specifically of the MBTs. In the first iteration I made a big mistake - I concentrated my calculations on submerged stability, just assuming the MBTs would provide stability when surfaced. Nope! The second iteration used a raft MBT, which is far more stable than the streamlined hull-hugging initial version. That solved the surfaced stability issue. However, it had a new problem. The raft was composed of a bunch of small aluminum tanks, plumbed to valves on the CT just like a Kittredge sub. The problem was that the plumbing had do cover quite a distance and suffered from water blocking. This is the third iteration, and uses a raft of four MBTs but with mushroom valves rather than the K boat arrangement. Water blocking can't happen because mushroom valves go straight on the tanks and have no plumbing at all. I can already say that although it took me a while to arrive at, I'm a fan of the raft configuration implemented with mushroom valves. BTW the valves are controlled in pairs, so the pilot can open or shut the two forward valves or the two aft ones independently. ? What worked well: - As mentioned, the raft MBT provided good stability. - The boat floated at the calculated waterline and in trim. - The vertical thrusters blow water through the deck grating. I was curious how much efficiency this would cost, but it appears a very acceptable compromise. - The four thrusters are jettisonable. They are held against the hull by a bolt, and they seat against electrical connectors that are insulated from the water by an O ring. I have a short-detection circuit to make sure those O rings aren't leaking. I used it, and found no leaks. Thruster controls worked great. - The boat uses a combination of trawl floats and steel ballast to adjust buoyancy, with no VBT. Today's test was with just one person aboard, and in salt water. In other words, the scenario that calls for max ballast. We turned out to be balanced with a tad less than the full complement of weights - the theoretical numbers turned out near perfect. - I love the fast submergence! ? Needs work: - The thrusters are fine going forward but quite miserable in reverse. I think this is due to a combination of two factors. First, in reverse the prop wash hits the MBTs - I can't really do anything about that. Second, I'm using after market props that are supposedly faster than the stock Minnkotas. But I think they accomplish that by being biased for forward motion. I'll be switching back to the stock props. - Two of the mushroom valves don't seal 100%. I'll be putting in slightly thicker O rings to see if that stops it. - The hatch leaked, even though it didn't on past tests and didn't when I tested water-tightness with a vacuum two days ago. The hatch is bolted to its hinge, and washers on those bolts adjust the fit. This is just something to tinker with, but I know it can seal successfully. Unfortunately I have to remove the hatch each time the sub goes in and out, to fit under the garage door opening. ? And now... let winter move in! The next step will be a nice spring day dialing in ballast configurations for one or two occupants.? ? Thanks, Alec _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 4 08:57:45 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2018 07:57:45 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton test report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Great report Alec. The deck looks great. One of your drivers to move to Hugh Fulton's pancake, large throat vent valve is the enable fast submergence so that rotating moments don't have time to kick in. Did you have a timer going to see how fast it took for the MBT's to flood and have water over the hatch? Would be nice to see a profile picture of Shackleton to better see how the modified MBT's came out. Also a picture of the stern would be nice so we can see what your are talking about as to aft thruster performance. Thanks again for the posting. On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 6:31 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi friends, > > Today with Mark Ragan and Brian Hughes' help I'm delighted to say we were > able to sneak a test in just before winter makes its appearance. It was tee > shirt weather, with high tide at the warmest time of day. > > You may not be familiar with Shackleton, so here's a summary. She uses the > main cylinder of an earlier project called Solo, which was to be a > hydrobatic sub and therefore had a very slender (i.e. only 31" diameter) > main hull. Solo lost her wings and tail but gained battery pods, a CT, a > deck, etc. Shackleton herself has already been through several iterations, > specifically of the MBTs. In the first iteration I made a big mistake - I > concentrated my calculations on submerged stability, just assuming the MBTs > would provide stability when surfaced. Nope! The second iteration used a > raft MBT, which is far more stable than the streamlined hull-hugging > initial version. That solved the surfaced stability issue. However, it had > a new problem. The raft was composed of a bunch of small aluminum tanks, > plumbed to valves on the CT just like a Kittredge sub. The problem was that > the plumbing had do cover quite a distance and suffered from water > blocking. This is the third iteration, and uses a raft of four MBTs but > with mushroom valves rather than the K boat arrangement. Water blocking > can't happen because mushroom valves go straight on the tanks and have no > plumbing at all. I can already say that although it took me a while to > arrive at, I'm a fan of the raft configuration implemented with mushroom > valves. BTW the valves are controlled in pairs, so the pilot can open or > shut the two forward valves or the two aft ones independently. > > What worked well: > - As mentioned, the raft MBT provided good stability. > - The boat floated at the calculated waterline and in trim. > - The vertical thrusters blow water through the deck grating. I was > curious how much efficiency this would cost, but it appears a very > acceptable compromise. > - The four thrusters are jettisonable. They are held against the hull by a > bolt, and they seat against electrical connectors that are insulated from > the water by an O ring. I have a short-detection circuit to make sure those > O rings aren't leaking. I used it, and found no leaks. Thruster controls > worked great. > - The boat uses a combination of trawl floats and steel ballast to adjust > buoyancy, with no VBT. Today's test was with just one person aboard, and in > salt water. In other words, the scenario that calls for max ballast. We > turned out to be balanced with a tad less than the full complement of > weights - the theoretical numbers turned out near perfect. > - I love the fast submergence! > > Needs work: > - The thrusters are fine going forward but quite miserable in reverse. I > think this is due to a combination of two factors. First, in reverse the > prop wash hits the MBTs - I can't really do anything about that. Second, > I'm using after market props that are supposedly faster than the stock > Minnkotas. But I think they accomplish that by being biased for forward > motion. I'll be switching back to the stock props. > - Two of the mushroom valves don't seal 100%. I'll be putting in slightly > thicker O rings to see if that stops it. > - The hatch leaked, even though it didn't on past tests and didn't when I > tested water-tightness with a vacuum two days ago. The hatch is bolted to > its hinge, and washers on those bolts adjust the fit. This is just > something to tinker with, but I know it can seal successfully. > Unfortunately I have to remove the hatch each time the sub goes in and out, > to fit under the garage door opening. > > And now... let winter move in! The next step will be a nice spring day > dialing in ballast configurations for one or two occupants. > > Thanks, > Alec > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 4 14:15:07 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2018 14:15:07 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton test report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi friends, I've updated the project page with new photos. http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567810/shackleton/ Best, Alec On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 11:02 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks for that great report Alec. > Glad it went well. > Alan > > > On 4/12/2018, at 1:29 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Hi friends, > > > > Today with Mark Ragan and Brian Hughes' help I'm delighted to say we > were able to sneak a test in just before winter makes its appearance. It > was tee shirt weather, with high tide at the warmest time of day. > > > > You may not be familiar with Shackleton, so here's a summary. She uses > the main cylinder of an earlier project called Solo, which was to be a > hydrobatic sub and therefore had a very slender (i.e. only 31" diameter) > main hull. Solo lost her wings and tail but gained battery pods, a CT, a > deck, etc. Shackleton herself has already been through several iterations, > specifically of the MBTs. In the first iteration I made a big mistake - I > concentrated my calculations on submerged stability, just assuming the MBTs > would provide stability when surfaced. Nope! The second iteration used a > raft MBT, which is far more stable than the streamlined hull-hugging > initial version. That solved the surfaced stability issue. However, it had > a new problem. The raft was composed of a bunch of small aluminum tanks, > plumbed to valves on the CT just like a Kittredge sub. The problem was that > the plumbing had do cover quite a distance and suffered from water > blocking. This is the third iteration, an! > d uses a raft of four MBTs but with mushroom valves rather than the K > boat arrangement. Water blocking can't happen because mushroom valves go > straight on the tanks and have no plumbing at all. I can already say that > although it took me a while to arrive at, I'm a fan of the raft > configuration implemented with mushroom valves. BTW the valves are > controlled in pairs, so the pilot can open or shut the two forward valves > or the two aft ones independently. > > > > What worked well: > > - As mentioned, the raft MBT provided good stability. > > - The boat floated at the calculated waterline and in trim. > > - The vertical thrusters blow water through the deck grating. I was > curious how much efficiency this would cost, but it appears a very > acceptable compromise. > > - The four thrusters are jettisonable. They are held against the hull by > a bolt, and they seat against electrical connectors that are insulated from > the water by an O ring. I have a short-detection circuit to make sure those > O rings aren't leaking. I used it, and found no leaks. Thruster controls > worked great. > > - The boat uses a combination of trawl floats and steel ballast to > adjust buoyancy, with no VBT. Today's test was with just one person aboard, > and in salt water. In other words, the scenario that calls for max ballast. > We turned out to be balanced with a tad less than the full complement of > weights - the theoretical numbers turned out near perfect. > > - I love the fast submergence! > > > > Needs work: > > - The thrusters are fine going forward but quite miserable in reverse. I > think this is due to a combination of two factors. First, in reverse the > prop wash hits the MBTs - I can't really do anything about that. Second, > I'm using after market props that are supposedly faster than the stock > Minnkotas. But I think they accomplish that by being biased for forward > motion. I'll be switching back to the stock props. > > - Two of the mushroom valves don't seal 100%. I'll be putting in > slightly thicker O rings to see if that stops it. > > - The hatch leaked, even though it didn't on past tests and didn't when > I tested water-tightness with a vacuum two days ago. The hatch is bolted to > its hinge, and washers on those bolts adjust the fit. This is just > something to tinker with, but I know it can seal successfully. > Unfortunately I have to remove the hatch each time the sub goes in and out, > to fit under the garage door opening. > > > > And now... let winter move in! The next step will be a nice spring day > dialing in ballast configurations for one or two occupants. > > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > <47258859_10217781304468113_8654460041761390592_o.jpg> > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 4 14:42:53 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2018 09:42:53 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton test report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Very clean and professional work! looks great. I have decided to go with the 125 cu ft 02 bottles from our local welding supplier as they don't offer anything around 80 cu ft. and I had a couple laying around my shop. I now will try and find a CGA fitting to scuba valve adapter and will be good to go. Rick On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 9:16 AM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi friends, > > I've updated the project page with new photos. > > http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567810/shackleton/ > > Best, > Alec > > On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 11:02 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Thanks for that great report Alec. >> Glad it went well. >> Alan >> >> > On 4/12/2018, at 1:29 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> > >> > Hi friends, >> > >> > Today with Mark Ragan and Brian Hughes' help I'm delighted to say we >> were able to sneak a test in just before winter makes its appearance. It >> was tee shirt weather, with high tide at the warmest time of day. >> > >> > You may not be familiar with Shackleton, so here's a summary. She uses >> the main cylinder of an earlier project called Solo, which was to be a >> hydrobatic sub and therefore had a very slender (i.e. only 31" diameter) >> main hull. Solo lost her wings and tail but gained battery pods, a CT, a >> deck, etc. Shackleton herself has already been through several iterations, >> specifically of the MBTs. In the first iteration I made a big mistake - I >> concentrated my calculations on submerged stability, just assuming the MBTs >> would provide stability when surfaced. Nope! The second iteration used a >> raft MBT, which is far more stable than the streamlined hull-hugging >> initial version. That solved the surfaced stability issue. However, it had >> a new problem. The raft was composed of a bunch of small aluminum tanks, >> plumbed to valves on the CT just like a Kittredge sub. The problem was that >> the plumbing had do cover quite a distance and suffered from water >> blocking. This is the third iteration, an! >> d uses a raft of four MBTs but with mushroom valves rather than the K >> boat arrangement. Water blocking can't happen because mushroom valves go >> straight on the tanks and have no plumbing at all. I can already say that >> although it took me a while to arrive at, I'm a fan of the raft >> configuration implemented with mushroom valves. BTW the valves are >> controlled in pairs, so the pilot can open or shut the two forward valves >> or the two aft ones independently. >> > >> > What worked well: >> > - As mentioned, the raft MBT provided good stability. >> > - The boat floated at the calculated waterline and in trim. >> > - The vertical thrusters blow water through the deck grating. I was >> curious how much efficiency this would cost, but it appears a very >> acceptable compromise. >> > - The four thrusters are jettisonable. They are held against the hull >> by a bolt, and they seat against electrical connectors that are insulated >> from the water by an O ring. I have a short-detection circuit to make sure >> those O rings aren't leaking. I used it, and found no leaks. Thruster >> controls worked great. >> > - The boat uses a combination of trawl floats and steel ballast to >> adjust buoyancy, with no VBT. Today's test was with just one person aboard, >> and in salt water. In other words, the scenario that calls for max ballast. >> We turned out to be balanced with a tad less than the full complement of >> weights - the theoretical numbers turned out near perfect. >> > - I love the fast submergence! >> > >> > Needs work: >> > - The thrusters are fine going forward but quite miserable in reverse. >> I think this is due to a combination of two factors. First, in reverse the >> prop wash hits the MBTs - I can't really do anything about that. Second, >> I'm using after market props that are supposedly faster than the stock >> Minnkotas. But I think they accomplish that by being biased for forward >> motion. I'll be switching back to the stock props. >> > - Two of the mushroom valves don't seal 100%. I'll be putting in >> slightly thicker O rings to see if that stops it. >> > - The hatch leaked, even though it didn't on past tests and didn't when >> I tested water-tightness with a vacuum two days ago. The hatch is bolted to >> its hinge, and washers on those bolts adjust the fit. This is just >> something to tinker with, but I know it can seal successfully. >> Unfortunately I have to remove the hatch each time the sub goes in and out, >> to fit under the garage door opening. >> > >> > And now... let winter move in! The next step will be a nice spring day >> dialing in ballast configurations for one or two occupants. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Alec >> > <47258859_10217781304468113_8654460041761390592_o.jpg> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 4 15:05:58 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 09:05:58 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton test report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0A51FB56-00B1-4C12-B274-1D2DAE6B4864@yahoo.com> Rick, Steve Fordyce is part of our group & has a range of scuba fittings etc. http://www.tfmengineering.com.au/ there is a link to his catalogue on this home page. He is in Australia. Alan > On 5/12/2018, at 8:42 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Very clean and professional work! looks great. > I have decided to go with the 125 cu ft 02 bottles from our local welding supplier as they don't offer anything around 80 cu ft. and I had a couple laying around my shop. I now will try and find a CGA fitting to scuba valve adapter and will be good to go. > Rick > >> On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 9:16 AM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hi friends, >> >> I've updated the project page with new photos. >> >> http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567810/shackleton/ >> >> Best, >> Alec >> >>> On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 11:02 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Thanks for that great report Alec. >>> Glad it went well. >>> Alan >>> >>> > On 4/12/2018, at 1:29 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> > >>> > Hi friends, >>> > >>> > Today with Mark Ragan and Brian Hughes' help I'm delighted to say we were able to sneak a test in just before winter makes its appearance. It was tee shirt weather, with high tide at the warmest time of day. >>> > >>> > You may not be familiar with Shackleton, so here's a summary. She uses the main cylinder of an earlier project called Solo, which was to be a hydrobatic sub and therefore had a very slender (i.e. only 31" diameter) main hull. Solo lost her wings and tail but gained battery pods, a CT, a deck, etc. Shackleton herself has already been through several iterations, specifically of the MBTs. In the first iteration I made a big mistake - I concentrated my calculations on submerged stability, just assuming the MBTs would provide stability when surfaced. Nope! The second iteration used a raft MBT, which is far more stable than the streamlined hull-hugging initial version. That solved the surfaced stability issue. However, it had a new problem. The raft was composed of a bunch of small aluminum tanks, plumbed to valves on the CT just like a Kittredge sub. The problem was that the plumbing had do cover quite a distance and suffered from water blocking. This is the third iteration, an! >>> d uses a raft of four MBTs but with mushroom valves rather than the K boat arrangement. Water blocking can't happen because mushroom valves go straight on the tanks and have no plumbing at all. I can already say that although it took me a while to arrive at, I'm a fan of the raft configuration implemented with mushroom valves. BTW the valves are controlled in pairs, so the pilot can open or shut the two forward valves or the two aft ones independently. >>> > >>> > What worked well: >>> > - As mentioned, the raft MBT provided good stability. >>> > - The boat floated at the calculated waterline and in trim. >>> > - The vertical thrusters blow water through the deck grating. I was curious how much efficiency this would cost, but it appears a very acceptable compromise. >>> > - The four thrusters are jettisonable. They are held against the hull by a bolt, and they seat against electrical connectors that are insulated from the water by an O ring. I have a short-detection circuit to make sure those O rings aren't leaking. I used it, and found no leaks. Thruster controls worked great. >>> > - The boat uses a combination of trawl floats and steel ballast to adjust buoyancy, with no VBT. Today's test was with just one person aboard, and in salt water. In other words, the scenario that calls for max ballast. We turned out to be balanced with a tad less than the full complement of weights - the theoretical numbers turned out near perfect. >>> > - I love the fast submergence! >>> > >>> > Needs work: >>> > - The thrusters are fine going forward but quite miserable in reverse. I think this is due to a combination of two factors. First, in reverse the prop wash hits the MBTs - I can't really do anything about that. Second, I'm using after market props that are supposedly faster than the stock Minnkotas. But I think they accomplish that by being biased for forward motion. I'll be switching back to the stock props. >>> > - Two of the mushroom valves don't seal 100%. I'll be putting in slightly thicker O rings to see if that stops it. >>> > - The hatch leaked, even though it didn't on past tests and didn't when I tested water-tightness with a vacuum two days ago. The hatch is bolted to its hinge, and washers on those bolts adjust the fit. This is just something to tinker with, but I know it can seal successfully. Unfortunately I have to remove the hatch each time the sub goes in and out, to fit under the garage door opening. >>> > >>> > And now... let winter move in! The next step will be a nice spring day dialing in ballast configurations for one or two occupants. >>> > >>> > Thanks, >>> > Alec >>> > <47258859_10217781304468113_8654460041761390592_o.jpg> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 4 15:19:43 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 09:19:43 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton test report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <25310EE8-428E-41CC-8E18-46226222281A@yahoo.com> Alec, WOW, a lot of work has gone in to that. The seat retraction mechanism etc & Some innovations I haven't seen before, like the power connections for the dropping of the thrusters & the "twist & release" mechanism for the buoy release. I was intending to have my ballast valves opening down rather than up & are wondering if wave motion is compressing the air in your ballast tank & opening the valve against it's spring pressure. You said it was leaking a bit of air. Great attention to detail; it is looking good. I guess the next step is a manipulator? And what about a flight controller like David has ordered! Cheers Alan > On 5/12/2018, at 8:15 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi friends, > > I've updated the project page with new photos. > > http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567810/shackleton/ > > Best, > Alec > >> On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 11:02 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Thanks for that great report Alec. >> Glad it went well. >> Alan >> >> > On 4/12/2018, at 1:29 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > >> > Hi friends, >> > >> > Today with Mark Ragan and Brian Hughes' help I'm delighted to say we were able to sneak a test in just before winter makes its appearance. It was tee shirt weather, with high tide at the warmest time of day. >> > >> > You may not be familiar with Shackleton, so here's a summary. She uses the main cylinder of an earlier project called Solo, which was to be a hydrobatic sub and therefore had a very slender (i.e. only 31" diameter) main hull. Solo lost her wings and tail but gained battery pods, a CT, a deck, etc. Shackleton herself has already been through several iterations, specifically of the MBTs. In the first iteration I made a big mistake - I concentrated my calculations on submerged stability, just assuming the MBTs would provide stability when surfaced. Nope! The second iteration used a raft MBT, which is far more stable than the streamlined hull-hugging initial version. That solved the surfaced stability issue. However, it had a new problem. The raft was composed of a bunch of small aluminum tanks, plumbed to valves on the CT just like a Kittredge sub. The problem was that the plumbing had do cover quite a distance and suffered from water blocking. This is the third iteration, an! >> d uses a raft of four MBTs but with mushroom valves rather than the K boat arrangement. Water blocking can't happen because mushroom valves go straight on the tanks and have no plumbing at all. I can already say that although it took me a while to arrive at, I'm a fan of the raft configuration implemented with mushroom valves. BTW the valves are controlled in pairs, so the pilot can open or shut the two forward valves or the two aft ones independently. >> > >> > What worked well: >> > - As mentioned, the raft MBT provided good stability. >> > - The boat floated at the calculated waterline and in trim. >> > - The vertical thrusters blow water through the deck grating. I was curious how much efficiency this would cost, but it appears a very acceptable compromise. >> > - The four thrusters are jettisonable. They are held against the hull by a bolt, and they seat against electrical connectors that are insulated from the water by an O ring. I have a short-detection circuit to make sure those O rings aren't leaking. I used it, and found no leaks. Thruster controls worked great. >> > - The boat uses a combination of trawl floats and steel ballast to adjust buoyancy, with no VBT. Today's test was with just one person aboard, and in salt water. In other words, the scenario that calls for max ballast. We turned out to be balanced with a tad less than the full complement of weights - the theoretical numbers turned out near perfect. >> > - I love the fast submergence! >> > >> > Needs work: >> > - The thrusters are fine going forward but quite miserable in reverse. I think this is due to a combination of two factors. First, in reverse the prop wash hits the MBTs - I can't really do anything about that. Second, I'm using after market props that are supposedly faster than the stock Minnkotas. But I think they accomplish that by being biased for forward motion. I'll be switching back to the stock props. >> > - Two of the mushroom valves don't seal 100%. I'll be putting in slightly thicker O rings to see if that stops it. >> > - The hatch leaked, even though it didn't on past tests and didn't when I tested water-tightness with a vacuum two days ago. The hatch is bolted to its hinge, and washers on those bolts adjust the fit. This is just something to tinker with, but I know it can seal successfully. Unfortunately I have to remove the hatch each time the sub goes in and out, to fit under the garage door opening. >> > >> > And now... let winter move in! The next step will be a nice spring day dialing in ballast configurations for one or two occupants. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Alec >> > <47258859_10217781304468113_8654460041761390592_o.jpg> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 4 15:53:10 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2018 12:53:10 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton test report In-Reply-To: <25310EE8-428E-41CC-8E18-46226222281A@yahoo.com> References: <25310EE8-428E-41CC-8E18-46226222281A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alec, you've got some mad skills. Shackleton looks amazing. I love the simplicity of the trawler floats, and your drop weight system. David On Tue, Dec 4, 2018, 12:20 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, > WOW, a lot of work has gone in to that. The seat retraction mechanism etc > & Some innovations I haven't seen before, like the power connections for > the > dropping of the thrusters & the "twist & release" mechanism for the buoy > release. > I was intending to have my ballast valves opening down rather than up & are > wondering if wave motion is compressing the air in your ballast tank & > opening > the valve against it's spring pressure. You said it was leaking a bit of > air. > Great attention to detail; it is looking good. > I guess the next step is a manipulator? And what about a flight controller > like > David has ordered! > Cheers Alan > > > On 5/12/2018, at 8:15 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi friends, > > I've updated the project page with new photos. > > http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567810/shackleton/ > > Best, > Alec > > On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 11:02 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Thanks for that great report Alec. >> Glad it went well. >> Alan >> >> > On 4/12/2018, at 1:29 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> > >> > Hi friends, >> > >> > Today with Mark Ragan and Brian Hughes' help I'm delighted to say we >> were able to sneak a test in just before winter makes its appearance. It >> was tee shirt weather, with high tide at the warmest time of day. >> > >> > You may not be familiar with Shackleton, so here's a summary. She uses >> the main cylinder of an earlier project called Solo, which was to be a >> hydrobatic sub and therefore had a very slender (i.e. only 31" diameter) >> main hull. Solo lost her wings and tail but gained battery pods, a CT, a >> deck, etc. Shackleton herself has already been through several iterations, >> specifically of the MBTs. In the first iteration I made a big mistake - I >> concentrated my calculations on submerged stability, just assuming the MBTs >> would provide stability when surfaced. Nope! The second iteration used a >> raft MBT, which is far more stable than the streamlined hull-hugging >> initial version. That solved the surfaced stability issue. However, it had >> a new problem. The raft was composed of a bunch of small aluminum tanks, >> plumbed to valves on the CT just like a Kittredge sub. The problem was that >> the plumbing had do cover quite a distance and suffered from water >> blocking. This is the third iteration, an! >> d uses a raft of four MBTs but with mushroom valves rather than the K >> boat arrangement. Water blocking can't happen because mushroom valves go >> straight on the tanks and have no plumbing at all. I can already say that >> although it took me a while to arrive at, I'm a fan of the raft >> configuration implemented with mushroom valves. BTW the valves are >> controlled in pairs, so the pilot can open or shut the two forward valves >> or the two aft ones independently. >> > >> > What worked well: >> > - As mentioned, the raft MBT provided good stability. >> > - The boat floated at the calculated waterline and in trim. >> > - The vertical thrusters blow water through the deck grating. I was >> curious how much efficiency this would cost, but it appears a very >> acceptable compromise. >> > - The four thrusters are jettisonable. They are held against the hull >> by a bolt, and they seat against electrical connectors that are insulated >> from the water by an O ring. I have a short-detection circuit to make sure >> those O rings aren't leaking. I used it, and found no leaks. Thruster >> controls worked great. >> > - The boat uses a combination of trawl floats and steel ballast to >> adjust buoyancy, with no VBT. Today's test was with just one person aboard, >> and in salt water. In other words, the scenario that calls for max ballast. >> We turned out to be balanced with a tad less than the full complement of >> weights - the theoretical numbers turned out near perfect. >> > - I love the fast submergence! >> > >> > Needs work: >> > - The thrusters are fine going forward but quite miserable in reverse. >> I think this is due to a combination of two factors. First, in reverse the >> prop wash hits the MBTs - I can't really do anything about that. Second, >> I'm using after market props that are supposedly faster than the stock >> Minnkotas. But I think they accomplish that by being biased for forward >> motion. I'll be switching back to the stock props. >> > - Two of the mushroom valves don't seal 100%. I'll be putting in >> slightly thicker O rings to see if that stops it. >> > - The hatch leaked, even though it didn't on past tests and didn't when >> I tested water-tightness with a vacuum two days ago. The hatch is bolted to >> its hinge, and washers on those bolts adjust the fit. This is just >> something to tinker with, but I know it can seal successfully. >> Unfortunately I have to remove the hatch each time the sub goes in and out, >> to fit under the garage door opening. >> > >> > And now... let winter move in! The next step will be a nice spring day >> dialing in ballast configurations for one or two occupants. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Alec >> > <47258859_10217781304468113_8654460041761390592_o.jpg> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 4 17:14:42 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2018 14:14:42 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton test report Message-ID: <20181204141442.57FA9113@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 4 22:50:59 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 04:50:59 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton test report In-Reply-To: <20181204141442.57FA9113@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20181204141442.57FA9113@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: Great boat Alec! Love to hear your modifications bear fruit like this. regards Antoine On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 11:15 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > That's really great Alec, it's comforting to know that we all have to > tinker around a bit to get things working the way we want ! > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton test report > Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2018 19:29:57 -0500 > > Hi friends, > > Today with Mark Ragan and Brian Hughes' help I'm delighted to say we were > able to sneak a test in just before winter makes its appearance. It was tee > shirt weather, with high tide at the warmest time of day. > > You may not be familiar with Shackleton, so here's a summary. She uses the > main cylinder of an earlier project called Solo, which was to be a > hydrobatic sub and therefore had a very slender (i.e. only 31" diameter) > main hull. Solo lost her wings and tail but gained battery pods, a CT, a > deck, etc. Shackleton herself has already been through several iterations, > specifically of the MBTs. In the first iteration I made a big mistake - I > concentrated my calculations on submerged stability, just assuming the MBTs > would provide stability when surfaced. Nope! The second iteration used a > raft MBT, which is far more stable than the streamlined hull-hugging > initial version. That solved the surfaced stability issue. However, it had > a new problem. The raft was composed of a bunch of small aluminum tanks, > plumbed to valves on the CT just like a Kittredge sub. The problem was that > the plumbing had do cover quite a distance and suffered from water > blocking. This is the third iteration, and uses a raft of four MBTs but > with mushroom valves rather than the K boat arrangement. Water blocking > can't happen because mushroom valves go straight on the tanks and have no > plumbing at all. I can already say that although it took me a while to > arrive at, I'm a fan of the raft configuration implemented with mushroom > valves. BTW the valves are controlled in pairs, so the pilot can open or > shut the two forward valves or the two aft ones independently. > > What worked well: > - As mentioned, the raft MBT provided good stability. > - The boat floated at the calculated waterline and in trim. > - The vertical thrusters blow water through the deck grating. I was > curious how much efficiency this would cost, but it appears a very > acceptable compromise. > - The four thrusters are jettisonable. They are held against the hull by a > bolt, and they seat against electrical connectors that are insulated from > the water by an O ring. I have a short-detection circuit to make sure those > O rings aren't leaking. I used it, and found no leaks. Thruster controls > worked great. > - The boat uses a combination of trawl floats and steel ballast to adjust > buoyancy, with no VBT. Today's test was with just one person aboard, and in > salt water. In other words, the scenario that calls for max ballast. We > turned out to be balanced with a tad less than the full complement of > weights - the theoretical numbers turned out near perfect. > - I love the fast submergence! > > Needs work: > - The thrusters are fine going forward but quite miserable in reverse. I > think this is due to a combination of two factors. First, in reverse the > prop wash hits the MBTs - I can't really do anything about that. Second, > I'm using after market props that are supposedly faster than the stock > Minnkotas. But I think they accomplish that by being biased for forward > motion. I'll be switching back to the stock props. > - Two of the mushroom valves don't seal 100%. I'll be putting in slightly > thicker O rings to see if that stops it. > - The hatch leaked, even though it didn't on past tests and didn't when I > tested water-tightness with a vacuum two days ago. The hatch is bolted to > its hinge, and washers on those bolts adjust the fit. This is just > something to tinker with, but I know it can seal successfully. > Unfortunately I have to remove the hatch each time the sub goes in and out, > to fit under the garage door opening. > > And now... let winter move in! The next step will be a nice spring day > dialing in ballast configurations for one or two occupants. > > Thanks, > Alec > --000000000000360d8e057c275e6a--_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 4 23:18:59 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 17:18:59 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton test report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <033101d48c51$a81a4300$f84ec900$@gmail.com> Hi Alec, Try softer O?rings such as silicone rubber on the MBT valves. Because of the diameter the force on the rubber is barely sufficient with light springs and it is a matter of managing the O?ring groove dimensions. Also keep them greased. Stops marine growth etc as well. I had issues with my float valve sealing with low forces. Cheers, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 5 December 2018 8:15 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton test report Hi friends, I've updated the project page with new photos. http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567810/shackleton/ Best, Alec On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 11:02 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for that great report Alec. Glad it went well. Alan > On 4/12/2018, at 1:29 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi friends, > > Today with Mark Ragan and Brian Hughes' help I'm delighted to say we were able to sneak a test in just before winter makes its appearance. It was tee shirt weather, with high tide at the warmest time of day. > > You may not be familiar with Shackleton, so here's a summary. She uses the main cylinder of an earlier project called Solo, which was to be a hydrobatic sub and therefore had a very slender (i.e. only 31" diameter) main hull. Solo lost her wings and tail but gained battery pods, a CT, a deck, etc. Shackleton herself has already been through several iterations, specifically of the MBTs. In the first iteration I made a big mistake - I concentrated my calculations on submerged stability, just assuming the MBTs would provide stability when surfaced. Nope! The second iteration used a raft MBT, which is far more stable than the streamlined hull-hugging initial version. That solved the surfaced stability issue. However, it had a new problem. The raft was composed of a bunch of small aluminum tanks, plumbed to valves on the CT just like a Kittredge sub. The problem was that the plumbing had do cover quite a distance and suffered from water blocking. This is the third iteration, an! d uses a raft of four MBTs but with mushroom valves rather than the K boat arrangement. Water blocking can't happen because mushroom valves go straight on the tanks and have no plumbing at all. I can already say that although it took me a while to arrive at, I'm a fan of the raft configuration implemented with mushroom valves. BTW the valves are controlled in pairs, so the pilot can open or shut the two forward valves or the two aft ones independently. > > What worked well: > - As mentioned, the raft MBT provided good stability. > - The boat floated at the calculated waterline and in trim. > - The vertical thrusters blow water through the deck grating. I was curious how much efficiency this would cost, but it appears a very acceptable compromise. > - The four thrusters are jettisonable. They are held against the hull by a bolt, and they seat against electrical connectors that are insulated from the water by an O ring. I have a short-detection circuit to make sure those O rings aren't leaking. I used it, and found no leaks. Thruster controls worked great. > - The boat uses a combination of trawl floats and steel ballast to adjust buoyancy, with no VBT. Today's test was with just one person aboard, and in salt water. In other words, the scenario that calls for max ballast. We turned out to be balanced with a tad less than the full complement of weights - the theoretical numbers turned out near perfect. > - I love the fast submergence! > > Needs work: > - The thrusters are fine going forward but quite miserable in reverse. I think this is due to a combination of two factors. First, in reverse the prop wash hits the MBTs - I can't really do anything about that. Second, I'm using after market props that are supposedly faster than the stock Minnkotas. But I think they accomplish that by being biased for forward motion. I'll be switching back to the stock props. > - Two of the mushroom valves don't seal 100%. I'll be putting in slightly thicker O rings to see if that stops it. > - The hatch leaked, even though it didn't on past tests and didn't when I tested water-tightness with a vacuum two days ago. The hatch is bolted to its hinge, and washers on those bolts adjust the fit. This is just something to tinker with, but I know it can seal successfully. Unfortunately I have to remove the hatch each time the sub goes in and out, to fit under the garage door opening. > > And now... let winter move in! The next step will be a nice spring day dialing in ballast configurations for one or two occupants. > > Thanks, > Alec > <47258859_10217781304468113_8654460041761390592_o.jpg> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 5 05:01:53 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 23:01:53 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Test Message-ID: <6D8107E5-6339-4F18-9FF1-C6D965BD3E84@yahoo.com> Just did the first test on my latest brushless thruster version. I started with a Vetus bow thruster which is normally housed in a tunnel, but to simplify things I am testing several different propellors without nozzles first. I have a 10mm prop shaft & the various off the shelf props need either drilling out or sleeves made to fit them. I was getting 38.5 lb. thrust from 1,152 Watts & 45 lb. off 1,694 Watts, which is comparable with some commercial thrusters but not with others. Some manufacturers are quoting thrust per Watt figures I find hard to believe. Will see how the other props work. Testing came to an end when the automatic pool cleaner (which I had just moved to the end of the pool) came down & knocked my prop off while I was jotting down notes. First swim of the summer finding the shaft pin. The prop was held in place more or less by the force of the prop thrust & a tight fit. Picture below is from left to right; load cell mounted on the vertical stationary side of black test jig, motor controller, 48V rectifier with oil compensator on top, grey load cel display, servo tester to control speed & laptop with Vesc Tool program displaying data. The oil compensator is just for the testing, a much smaller & different system will be on the sub. Alan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 518427 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 5 05:15:08 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 10:15:08 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton test report In-Reply-To: <033101d48c51$a81a4300$f84ec900$@gmail.com> References: <033101d48c51$a81a4300$f84ec900$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Looks great Alec. Your workmanship is an inspiration! Great to see it looking so good. Regards James On Wed, 5 Dec 2018 at 04:19, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alec, > > Try softer O?rings such as silicone rubber on the MBT valves. Because of the diameter the force on the rubber is barely sufficient with light springs and it is a matter of managing the O?ring groove dimensions. > > Also keep them greased. Stops marine growth etc as well. I had issues with my float valve sealing with low forces. > > Cheers, > > Hugh > > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Wednesday, 5 December 2018 8:15 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton test report > > > > Hi friends, > > > > I've updated the project page with new photos. > > > > http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567810/shackleton/ > > > > Best, > Alec > > > > On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 11:02 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks for that great report Alec. > Glad it went well. > Alan > > > On 4/12/2018, at 1:29 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Hi friends, > > > > Today with Mark Ragan and Brian Hughes' help I'm delighted to say we were able to sneak a test in just before winter makes its appearance. It was tee shirt weather, with high tide at the warmest time of day. > > > > You may not be familiar with Shackleton, so here's a summary. She uses the main cylinder of an earlier project called Solo, which was to be a hydrobatic sub and therefore had a very slender (i.e. only 31" diameter) main hull. Solo lost her wings and tail but gained battery pods, a CT, a deck, etc. Shackleton herself has already been through several iterations, specifically of the MBTs. In the first iteration I made a big mistake - I concentrated my calculations on submerged stability, just assuming the MBTs would provide stability when surfaced. Nope! The second iteration used a raft MBT, which is far more stable than the streamlined hull-hugging initial version. That solved the surfaced stability issue. However, it had a new problem. The raft was composed of a bunch of small aluminum tanks, plumbed to valves on the CT just like a Kittredge sub. The problem was that the plumbing had do cover quite a distance and suffered from water blocking. This is the third iteration, an! > d uses a raft of four MBTs but with mushroom valves rather than the K boat arrangement. Water blocking can't happen because mushroom valves go straight on the tanks and have no plumbing at all. I can already say that although it took me a while to arrive at, I'm a fan of the raft configuration implemented with mushroom valves. BTW the valves are controlled in pairs, so the pilot can open or shut the two forward valves or the two aft ones independently. > > > > What worked well: > > - As mentioned, the raft MBT provided good stability. > > - The boat floated at the calculated waterline and in trim. > > - The vertical thrusters blow water through the deck grating. I was curious how much efficiency this would cost, but it appears a very acceptable compromise. > > - The four thrusters are jettisonable. They are held against the hull by a bolt, and they seat against electrical connectors that are insulated from the water by an O ring. I have a short-detection circuit to make sure those O rings aren't leaking. I used it, and found no leaks. Thruster controls worked great. > > - The boat uses a combination of trawl floats and steel ballast to adjust buoyancy, with no VBT. Today's test was with just one person aboard, and in salt water. In other words, the scenario that calls for max ballast. We turned out to be balanced with a tad less than the full complement of weights - the theoretical numbers turned out near perfect. > > - I love the fast submergence! > > > > Needs work: > > - The thrusters are fine going forward but quite miserable in reverse. I think this is due to a combination of two factors. First, in reverse the prop wash hits the MBTs - I can't really do anything about that. Second, I'm using after market props that are supposedly faster than the stock Minnkotas. But I think they accomplish that by being biased for forward motion. I'll be switching back to the stock props. > > - Two of the mushroom valves don't seal 100%. I'll be putting in slightly thicker O rings to see if that stops it. > > - The hatch leaked, even though it didn't on past tests and didn't when I tested water-tightness with a vacuum two days ago. The hatch is bolted to its hinge, and washers on those bolts adjust the fit. This is just something to tinker with, but I know it can seal successfully. Unfortunately I have to remove the hatch each time the sub goes in and out, to fit under the garage door opening. > > > > And now... let winter move in! The next step will be a nice spring day dialing in ballast configurations for one or two occupants. > > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > <47258859_10217781304468113_8654460041761390592_o.jpg> > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 5 09:58:53 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 06:58:53 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Test In-Reply-To: <6D8107E5-6339-4F18-9FF1-C6D965BD3E84@yahoo.com> References: <6D8107E5-6339-4F18-9FF1-C6D965BD3E84@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, l never thought of using a ladder as a test rig. Was the thrust to watt ratio the same base at different speeds? David On Wed, Dec 5, 2018, 2:03 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Just did the first test on my latest brushless thruster version. > I started with a Vetus bow thruster which is normally housed in a tunnel, > but > to simplify things I am testing several different propellors without > nozzles first. > I have a 10mm prop shaft & the various off the shelf props need either > drilling > out or sleeves made to fit them. > I was getting 38.5 lb. thrust from 1,152 Watts & 45 lb. off 1,694 > Watts, which > is comparable with some commercial thrusters but not with others. Some > manufacturers are quoting thrust per Watt figures I find hard to believe. > Will see how the other props work. > Testing came to an end when the automatic pool cleaner (which I had just > moved to the end of the pool) came down & knocked my prop off while I was > jotting down notes. First swim of the summer finding the shaft pin. The > prop > was held in place more or less by the force of the prop thrust & a tight > fit. > Picture below is from left to right; load cell mounted on the vertical > stationary > side of black test jig, motor controller, 48V rectifier with oil > compensator on > top, grey load cel display, servo tester to control speed & laptop with > Vesc Tool > program displaying data. > The oil compensator is just for the testing, a much smaller & different > system > will be on the sub. > Alan > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 5 13:34:45 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 07:34:45 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Test In-Reply-To: References: <6D8107E5-6339-4F18-9FF1-C6D965BD3E84@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <06C1C987-7A92-439E-99CA-53E630F5511A@yahoo.com> Hi David, the extension ladder worked but was a bit of an effort pushing it out with weight on it. I will grease it before the next prop test. As for thrust to watt ratio; I measured this at intervals from 18V to 44V. 18.2V, 13.2W per lb. of thrust. 26.8V, 19.5W per lb. 33.6V, 24.4W per lb. 38.4V, 29.9W per lb. 44.6V, 37.6W per lb. So definitely a loss of economy as you open the throttle. The Vetus prop is designed to work in a tunnel & I didn't have one on it. It will be interesting to see how the other props fare in this respect, & if these figures differ much when I put a kort nozzle / prop guard on them. Alan > On 6/12/2018, at 3:58 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, l never thought of using a ladder as a test rig. Was the thrust to watt ratio the same base at different speeds? > David > >> On Wed, Dec 5, 2018, 2:03 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Just did the first test on my latest brushless thruster version. >> I started with a Vetus bow thruster which is normally housed in a tunnel, but >> to simplify things I am testing several different propellors without nozzles first. >> I have a 10mm prop shaft & the various off the shelf props need either drilling >> out or sleeves made to fit them. >> I was getting 38.5 lb. thrust from 1,152 Watts & 45 lb. off 1,694 Watts, which >> is comparable with some commercial thrusters but not with others. Some >> manufacturers are quoting thrust per Watt figures I find hard to believe. >> Will see how the other props work. >> Testing came to an end when the automatic pool cleaner (which I had just >> moved to the end of the pool) came down & knocked my prop off while I was >> jotting down notes. First swim of the summer finding the shaft pin. The prop >> was held in place more or less by the force of the prop thrust & a tight fit. >> Picture below is from left to right; load cell mounted on the vertical stationary >> side of black test jig, motor controller, 48V rectifier with oil compensator on >> top, grey load cel display, servo tester to control speed & laptop with Vesc Tool >> program displaying data. >> The oil compensator is just for the testing, a much smaller & different system >> will be on the sub. >> Alan >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 5 17:07:35 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 17:07:35 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton test report In-Reply-To: <25310EE8-428E-41CC-8E18-46226222281A@yahoo.com> References: <25310EE8-428E-41CC-8E18-46226222281A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, The valves have a spring so they default to closed if un-powered, but I'm driving both the open and close directions pneumatically. The slight leaks in two of them should be a matter of fidgeting with the cap and its O-ring. It's a conical seat, and I'll experiment with different O ring thicknesses, but if not I'll just make new caps. Prior to this, I had tested the valves by inverting the tank (off the sub) and filling with water. However, I hadn't filled them to the top due to mounting holes, so they had more pressure now. As a next step I'm investigating ways to further increase buoyancy. The present range allows one or two person operation in salt water, but I need some extra buoyancy for two people in fresh water. The great thing is the test gave me a confirmed reference point rather than a spreadsheet of estimates. At some point I may go back to playing with things like the PLC or a joystick, but frankly the controls are the best part of the boat the way they are now, as they'd still work if I dunked them in the ocean. I really want to get the basics to battle tank grade like that before I turn my attention to the nice-to-haves. Love your research with the thrusters!!! Best, Alec On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 3:20 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, > WOW, a lot of work has gone in to that. The seat retraction mechanism etc > & Some innovations I haven't seen before, like the power connections for > the > dropping of the thrusters & the "twist & release" mechanism for the buoy > release. > I was intending to have my ballast valves opening down rather than up & are > wondering if wave motion is compressing the air in your ballast tank & > opening > the valve against it's spring pressure. You said it was leaking a bit of > air. > Great attention to detail; it is looking good. > I guess the next step is a manipulator? And what about a flight controller > like > David has ordered! > Cheers Alan > > > On 5/12/2018, at 8:15 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi friends, > > I've updated the project page with new photos. > > http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567810/shackleton/ > > Best, > Alec > > On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 11:02 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Thanks for that great report Alec. >> Glad it went well. >> Alan >> >> > On 4/12/2018, at 1:29 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> > >> > Hi friends, >> > >> > Today with Mark Ragan and Brian Hughes' help I'm delighted to say we >> were able to sneak a test in just before winter makes its appearance. It >> was tee shirt weather, with high tide at the warmest time of day. >> > >> > You may not be familiar with Shackleton, so here's a summary. She uses >> the main cylinder of an earlier project called Solo, which was to be a >> hydrobatic sub and therefore had a very slender (i.e. only 31" diameter) >> main hull. Solo lost her wings and tail but gained battery pods, a CT, a >> deck, etc. Shackleton herself has already been through several iterations, >> specifically of the MBTs. In the first iteration I made a big mistake - I >> concentrated my calculations on submerged stability, just assuming the MBTs >> would provide stability when surfaced. Nope! The second iteration used a >> raft MBT, which is far more stable than the streamlined hull-hugging >> initial version. That solved the surfaced stability issue. However, it had >> a new problem. The raft was composed of a bunch of small aluminum tanks, >> plumbed to valves on the CT just like a Kittredge sub. The problem was that >> the plumbing had do cover quite a distance and suffered from water >> blocking. This is the third iteration, an! >> d uses a raft of four MBTs but with mushroom valves rather than the K >> boat arrangement. Water blocking can't happen because mushroom valves go >> straight on the tanks and have no plumbing at all. I can already say that >> although it took me a while to arrive at, I'm a fan of the raft >> configuration implemented with mushroom valves. BTW the valves are >> controlled in pairs, so the pilot can open or shut the two forward valves >> or the two aft ones independently. >> > >> > What worked well: >> > - As mentioned, the raft MBT provided good stability. >> > - The boat floated at the calculated waterline and in trim. >> > - The vertical thrusters blow water through the deck grating. I was >> curious how much efficiency this would cost, but it appears a very >> acceptable compromise. >> > - The four thrusters are jettisonable. They are held against the hull >> by a bolt, and they seat against electrical connectors that are insulated >> from the water by an O ring. I have a short-detection circuit to make sure >> those O rings aren't leaking. I used it, and found no leaks. Thruster >> controls worked great. >> > - The boat uses a combination of trawl floats and steel ballast to >> adjust buoyancy, with no VBT. Today's test was with just one person aboard, >> and in salt water. In other words, the scenario that calls for max ballast. >> We turned out to be balanced with a tad less than the full complement of >> weights - the theoretical numbers turned out near perfect. >> > - I love the fast submergence! >> > >> > Needs work: >> > - The thrusters are fine going forward but quite miserable in reverse. >> I think this is due to a combination of two factors. First, in reverse the >> prop wash hits the MBTs - I can't really do anything about that. Second, >> I'm using after market props that are supposedly faster than the stock >> Minnkotas. But I think they accomplish that by being biased for forward >> motion. I'll be switching back to the stock props. >> > - Two of the mushroom valves don't seal 100%. I'll be putting in >> slightly thicker O rings to see if that stops it. >> > - The hatch leaked, even though it didn't on past tests and didn't when >> I tested water-tightness with a vacuum two days ago. The hatch is bolted to >> its hinge, and washers on those bolts adjust the fit. This is just >> something to tinker with, but I know it can seal successfully. >> Unfortunately I have to remove the hatch each time the sub goes in and out, >> to fit under the garage door opening. >> > >> > And now... let winter move in! The next step will be a nice spring day >> dialing in ballast configurations for one or two occupants. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Alec >> > <47258859_10217781304468113_8654460041761390592_o.jpg> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 5 17:49:51 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 22:49:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trailer References: <1501870568.2484438.1544050191710.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1501870568.2484438.1544050191710@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,?I am thinking about building a new trailer for E3000 based on a cable reel trailer. ?For those of you who don't know what that is, it is a bottom less trailer with no floor or axel going across. ?I have been looking at how they are built and I can build one easily. ?The trailer would have a arch over the centre of the sub and a winch can lift the sub, then I remove two crossmembers and drop the sub strait down. ?Anyone tried this?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 5 17:54:38 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 11:54:38 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator Build Message-ID: <8386C486-09C2-4768-94B6-99AEACA4B9AF@yahoo.com> Have made a start at making a simple light weight electric manipulator. I need a wide range of movement to be able to use it to cut away any obstruction from the thrusters & also to use it as a periscope & camera gimble. ( oh yeah & pick up things) So am opting to go with electric motors powering gears on the joints instead of more robust pistons. 2 modified power window openers arrived this morning from Cytron Robotics. I wanted to see if they were suitable for modifying for use without any sealing or compensation. Pulled one apart as per picture but it isn't that suitable. It is pretty simple with the worm gear directly on the motor shaft & a 65-1 ratio with the large plastic gear. Looks like the nephews are getting a robot for Christmas. It is a start & has given me a few clues as to how to clone it out of non corrosive parts & with the use of the resin sealed motors I picked up from Blue Robotics nothing will need to be fully enclosed or compensated. Alan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 413727 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 5 18:24:22 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 12:24:22 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shackleton test report In-Reply-To: References: <25310EE8-428E-41CC-8E18-46226222281A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Alec, When I suggested the possibility of compression of air in the ballast tanks due to the subs vertical motion in waves, I had in the back of my mind Doug's misadventure when he surfaced Argonaut Junior with the moon pool open. The bouncing motion on surfacing compressed the air in the sub & he went down like a rock. I have no idea how much pressure could be generated by wave motion. Re your buoyancy dilema; it looks like you have room for smaller floats between the tubes of the larger floats at the back. Maybe some more tubes with smaller floats. Cheers Alan > On 6/12/2018, at 11:07 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > The valves have a spring so they default to closed if un-powered, but I'm driving both the open and close directions pneumatically. The slight leaks in two of them should be a matter of fidgeting with the cap and its O-ring. It's a conical seat, and I'll experiment with different O ring thicknesses, but if not I'll just make new caps. Prior to this, I had tested the valves by inverting the tank (off the sub) and filling with water. However, I hadn't filled them to the top due to mounting holes, so they had more pressure now. > > As a next step I'm investigating ways to further increase buoyancy. The present range allows one or two person operation in salt water, but I need some extra buoyancy for two people in fresh water. The great thing is the test gave me a confirmed reference point rather than a spreadsheet of estimates. At some point I may go back to playing with things like the PLC or a joystick, but frankly the controls are the best part of the boat the way they are now, as they'd still work if I dunked them in the ocean. I really want to get the basics to battle tank grade like that before I turn my attention to the nice-to-haves. > > Love your research with the thrusters!!! > > > Best, > Alec > >> On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 3:20 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alec, >> WOW, a lot of work has gone in to that. The seat retraction mechanism etc >> & Some innovations I haven't seen before, like the power connections for the >> dropping of the thrusters & the "twist & release" mechanism for the buoy release. >> I was intending to have my ballast valves opening down rather than up & are >> wondering if wave motion is compressing the air in your ballast tank & opening >> the valve against it's spring pressure. You said it was leaking a bit of air. >> Great attention to detail; it is looking good. >> I guess the next step is a manipulator? And what about a flight controller like >> David has ordered! >> Cheers Alan >> >> >>> On 5/12/2018, at 8:15 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi friends, >>> >>> I've updated the project page with new photos. >>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567810/shackleton/ >>> >>> Best, >>> Alec >>> >>>> On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 11:02 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Thanks for that great report Alec. >>>> Glad it went well. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> > On 4/12/2018, at 1:29 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Hi friends, >>>> > >>>> > Today with Mark Ragan and Brian Hughes' help I'm delighted to say we were able to sneak a test in just before winter makes its appearance. It was tee shirt weather, with high tide at the warmest time of day. >>>> > >>>> > You may not be familiar with Shackleton, so here's a summary. She uses the main cylinder of an earlier project called Solo, which was to be a hydrobatic sub and therefore had a very slender (i.e. only 31" diameter) main hull. Solo lost her wings and tail but gained battery pods, a CT, a deck, etc. Shackleton herself has already been through several iterations, specifically of the MBTs. In the first iteration I made a big mistake - I concentrated my calculations on submerged stability, just assuming the MBTs would provide stability when surfaced. Nope! The second iteration used a raft MBT, which is far more stable than the streamlined hull-hugging initial version. That solved the surfaced stability issue. However, it had a new problem. The raft was composed of a bunch of small aluminum tanks, plumbed to valves on the CT just like a Kittredge sub. The problem was that the plumbing had do cover quite a distance and suffered from water blocking. This is the third iteration, an! >>>> d uses a raft of four MBTs but with mushroom valves rather than the K boat arrangement. Water blocking can't happen because mushroom valves go straight on the tanks and have no plumbing at all. I can already say that although it took me a while to arrive at, I'm a fan of the raft configuration implemented with mushroom valves. BTW the valves are controlled in pairs, so the pilot can open or shut the two forward valves or the two aft ones independently. >>>> > >>>> > What worked well: >>>> > - As mentioned, the raft MBT provided good stability. >>>> > - The boat floated at the calculated waterline and in trim. >>>> > - The vertical thrusters blow water through the deck grating. I was curious how much efficiency this would cost, but it appears a very acceptable compromise. >>>> > - The four thrusters are jettisonable. They are held against the hull by a bolt, and they seat against electrical connectors that are insulated from the water by an O ring. I have a short-detection circuit to make sure those O rings aren't leaking. I used it, and found no leaks. Thruster controls worked great. >>>> > - The boat uses a combination of trawl floats and steel ballast to adjust buoyancy, with no VBT. Today's test was with just one person aboard, and in salt water. In other words, the scenario that calls for max ballast. We turned out to be balanced with a tad less than the full complement of weights - the theoretical numbers turned out near perfect. >>>> > - I love the fast submergence! >>>> > >>>> > Needs work: >>>> > - The thrusters are fine going forward but quite miserable in reverse. I think this is due to a combination of two factors. First, in reverse the prop wash hits the MBTs - I can't really do anything about that. Second, I'm using after market props that are supposedly faster than the stock Minnkotas. But I think they accomplish that by being biased for forward motion. I'll be switching back to the stock props. >>>> > - Two of the mushroom valves don't seal 100%. I'll be putting in slightly thicker O rings to see if that stops it. >>>> > - The hatch leaked, even though it didn't on past tests and didn't when I tested water-tightness with a vacuum two days ago. The hatch is bolted to its hinge, and washers on those bolts adjust the fit. This is just something to tinker with, but I know it can seal successfully. Unfortunately I have to remove the hatch each time the sub goes in and out, to fit under the garage door opening. >>>> > >>>> > And now... let winter move in! The next step will be a nice spring day dialing in ballast configurations for one or two occupants. >>>> > >>>> > Thanks, >>>> > Alec >>>> > <47258859_10217781304468113_8654460041761390592_o.jpg> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 7 05:11:24 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 23:11:24 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Test In-Reply-To: <06C1C987-7A92-439E-99CA-53E630F5511A@yahoo.com> References: <6D8107E5-6339-4F18-9FF1-C6D965BD3E84@yahoo.com> <06C1C987-7A92-439E-99CA-53E630F5511A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi all, tested another 2 props today. Both 2 hp yamaha 3 bladed. One was a plastic 7&1/4 x 4, the other aluminium & similar but with rounded ends to the blades. They both worked much better than the Vetus prop I tried yesterday, the plastic prop being the better. By comparison the plastic yamaha prop had 60.62 lb. thrust from 1624 W while the Vetus had 45 lb. from 1694 W. Quite a difference; 26.79 Watts per pound of thrust as apposed to 37.66 for the Vetus. David, again it showed to be a lot more economical on power to run the motor slowly. At 11 lb of thrust it used 12.9 Watts per pound of thrust and rose up to 26.79 Watts per pound of thrust at full power. So if the batteries are low, go slow. Cheers Alan > On 6/12/2018, at 7:34 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi David, > the extension ladder worked but was a bit of an effort pushing it out > with weight on it. I will grease it before the next prop test. > As for thrust to watt ratio; I measured this at intervals from 18V to 44V. > 18.2V, 13.2W per lb. of thrust. > 26.8V, 19.5W per lb. > 33.6V, 24.4W per lb. > 38.4V, 29.9W per lb. > 44.6V, 37.6W per lb. > So definitely a loss of economy as you open the throttle. The Vetus prop > is designed to work in a tunnel & I didn't have one on it. It will be interesting > to see how the other props fare in this respect, & if these figures differ much > when I put a kort nozzle / prop guard on them. > Alan > > >> On 6/12/2018, at 3:58 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi Alan, l never thought of using a ladder as a test rig. Was the thrust to watt ratio the same base at different speeds? >> David >> >>> On Wed, Dec 5, 2018, 2:03 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Just did the first test on my latest brushless thruster version. >>> I started with a Vetus bow thruster which is normally housed in a tunnel, but >>> to simplify things I am testing several different propellors without nozzles first. >>> I have a 10mm prop shaft & the various off the shelf props need either drilling >>> out or sleeves made to fit them. >>> I was getting 38.5 lb. thrust from 1,152 Watts & 45 lb. off 1,694 Watts, which >>> is comparable with some commercial thrusters but not with others. Some >>> manufacturers are quoting thrust per Watt figures I find hard to believe. >>> Will see how the other props work. >>> Testing came to an end when the automatic pool cleaner (which I had just >>> moved to the end of the pool) came down & knocked my prop off while I was >>> jotting down notes. First swim of the summer finding the shaft pin. The prop >>> was held in place more or less by the force of the prop thrust & a tight fit. >>> Picture below is from left to right; load cell mounted on the vertical stationary >>> side of black test jig, motor controller, 48V rectifier with oil compensator on >>> top, grey load cel display, servo tester to control speed & laptop with Vesc Tool >>> program displaying data. >>> The oil compensator is just for the testing, a much smaller & different system >>> will be on the sub. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 404602 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 7 07:29:17 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 12:29:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Test In-Reply-To: References: <6D8107E5-6339-4F18-9FF1-C6D965BD3E84@yahoo.com> <06C1C987-7A92-439E-99CA-53E630F5511A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1132205655.336904.1544185757926@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,How is the heat managing?Hank On Friday, December 7, 2018, 3:12:00 AM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all,tested another 2 props today. Both 2 hp yamaha 3 bladed. One was aplastic 7&1/4 x 4, the other aluminium & similar but with rounded ends?to the blades.They both worked much better than the Vetus prop I tried yesterday,the plastic prop being the better.By comparison the plastic yamaha prop had 60.62 lb. thrust from 1624 W?while the Vetus had 45 lb. from 1694 W. Quite a difference; 26.79 Watts perpound of thrust as apposed to 37.66 for the Vetus.?David, again it showed to be a lot more economical on power to run themotor slowly. At 11 lb of thrust it used 12.9 Watts per pound of thrust androse up to 26.79 Watts per pound of thrust at full power.So if the batteries are low, go slow.?Cheers Alan On 6/12/2018, at 7:34 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi David,the extension ladder worked but was a bit of an effort pushing it outwith weight on it. I will grease it before the next prop test.As for thrust to watt ratio; I measured this at intervals from 18V to 44V.18.2V, 13.2W per lb. of thrust.26.8V, 19.5W per lb.33.6V, 24.4W per lb.38.4V, 29.9W per lb.44.6V, 37.6W per lb.So definitely a loss of economy as you open the throttle. The Vetus propis designed to work in a tunnel & I didn't have one on it. It will be interesting?to see how the other props fare in this respect, & if these figures differ muchwhen I put a kort nozzle / prop guard on them.Alan On 6/12/2018, at 3:58 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, l never thought of using a ladder as a test rig. Was the thrust to watt ratio the same base at different speeds?David On Wed, Dec 5, 2018, 2:03 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just did the first test on my latest brushless thruster version. I started with a Vetus bow thruster which is normally housed in a tunnel, but to simplify things I am testing several different propellors without nozzles first. I have a 10mm prop shaft & the various off the shelf props need either drilling out or sleeves made to fit them. ? ?I was getting 38.5 lb. thrust from 1,152 Watts & 45 lb. off 1,694 Watts, which is comparable with some commercial thrusters but not with others. Some manufacturers are quoting thrust per Watt figures I find hard to believe. Will see how the other props work. ? ?Testing came to an end when the automatic pool cleaner (which I had just moved to the end of the pool) came down & knocked my prop off while I was jotting down notes. First swim of the summer finding the shaft pin. The prop was held in place more or less by the force of the prop thrust & a tight fit. Picture below is from left to right; load cell mounted on the vertical stationary side of black test jig, motor controller, 48V rectifier with oil compensator on top, grey load cel display, servo tester to control speed & laptop with Vesc Tool program displaying data. The oil compensator is just for the testing, a much smaller & different system will be on the sub. Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 404602 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 7 13:53:18 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2018 07:53:18 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Test In-Reply-To: <1132205655.336904.1544185757926@mail.yahoo.com> References: <6D8107E5-6339-4F18-9FF1-C6D965BD3E84@yahoo.com> <06C1C987-7A92-439E-99CA-53E630F5511A@yahoo.com> <1132205655.336904.1544185757926@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9603219B-FF2C-413F-8701-C436E710701A@yahoo.com> Hank, I was only running it for a short time testing the thrust. I previously did a temperature test running it at 30 Amps for an hour without a prop in water temperature up to 27C, & it kept below 80C. I am happy with the yamaha 2hp prop & will do an endurance test with that for 100 or so hours & monitor the temperature again. Cheers Alan > On 8/12/2018, at 1:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > How is the heat managing? > Hank > > On Friday, December 7, 2018, 3:12:00 AM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi all, > tested another 2 props today. Both 2 hp yamaha 3 bladed. One was a > plastic 7&1/4 x 4, the other aluminium & similar but with rounded ends > to the blades. > They both worked much better than the Vetus prop I tried yesterday, > the plastic prop being the better. > By comparison the plastic yamaha prop had 60.62 lb. thrust from 1624 W > while the Vetus had 45 lb. from 1694 W. Quite a difference; 26.79 Watts per > pound of thrust as apposed to 37.66 for the Vetus. > David, again it showed to be a lot more economical on power to run the > motor slowly. At 11 lb of thrust it used 12.9 Watts per pound of thrust and > rose up to 26.79 Watts per pound of thrust at full power. > So if the batteries are low, go slow. > Cheers Alan > > >> On 6/12/2018, at 7:34 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > > Hi David, > the extension ladder worked but was a bit of an effort pushing it out > with weight on it. I will grease it before the next prop test. > As for thrust to watt ratio; I measured this at intervals from 18V to 44V. > 18.2V, 13.2W per lb. of thrust. > 26.8V, 19.5W per lb. > 33.6V, 24.4W per lb. > 38.4V, 29.9W per lb. > 44.6V, 37.6W per lb. > So definitely a loss of economy as you open the throttle. The Vetus prop > is designed to work in a tunnel & I didn't have one on it. It will be interesting > to see how the other props fare in this respect, & if these figures differ much > when I put a kort nozzle / prop guard on them. > Alan > > >> On 6/12/2018, at 3:58 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi Alan, l never thought of using a ladder as a test rig. Was the thrust to watt ratio the same base at different speeds? >> David >> >> On Wed, Dec 5, 2018, 2:03 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Just did the first test on my latest brushless thruster version. >> I started with a Vetus bow thruster which is normally housed in a tunnel, but >> to simplify things I am testing several different propellors without nozzles first. >> I have a 10mm prop shaft & the various off the shelf props need either drilling >> out or sleeves made to fit them. >> I was getting 38.5 lb. thrust from 1,152 Watts & 45 lb. off 1,694 Watts, which >> is comparable with some commercial thrusters but not with others. Some >> manufacturers are quoting thrust per Watt figures I find hard to believe. >> Will see how the other props work. >> Testing came to an end when the automatic pool cleaner (which I had just >> moved to the end of the pool) came down & knocked my prop off while I was >> jotting down notes. First swim of the summer finding the shaft pin. The prop >> was held in place more or less by the force of the prop thrust & a tight fit. >> Picture below is from left to right; load cell mounted on the vertical stationary >> side of black test jig, motor controller, 48V rectifier with oil compensator on >> top, grey load cel display, servo tester to control speed & laptop with Vesc Tool >> program displaying data. >> The oil compensator is just for the testing, a much smaller & different system >> will be on the sub. >> Alan >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 9 12:12:39 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2018 17:12:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery boxes References: <590454345.1165125.1544375559112.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <590454345.1165125.1544375559112@mail.yahoo.com> Hi all,I am in search of some oil filled battery box's . ?I just need the boxes not the batteries. ?Any leads?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 9 14:49:41 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 08:49:41 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery boxes In-Reply-To: <590454345.1165125.1544375559112@mail.yahoo.com> References: <590454345.1165125.1544375559112.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <590454345.1165125.1544375559112@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3CB5D14A-FCE1-4C56-8570-AB59FBA9AC41@yahoo.com> Hank, there is the Deep Sea Power & Light battery box. http://www.deepsea.com/portfolio-items/seabattery-power-module/ Probably very expensive. I built one out of marine ply for a 48V lithium battery pack, but this was for going in a boat not underwater. You could easily taylor something to your battery configuration with marine ply, screwing & glueing it together & covering it with epoxy. I would mix a thickener with the epoxy & fillet the joints. They make boats like this so should be good for a battery box! Cheers Alan > On 10/12/2018, at 6:12 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi all, > I am in search of some oil filled battery box's . I just need the boxes not the batteries. > Any leads? > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 479092 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 9 16:00:59 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2018 21:00:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery boxes In-Reply-To: <3CB5D14A-FCE1-4C56-8570-AB59FBA9AC41@yahoo.com> References: <590454345.1165125.1544375559112.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <590454345.1165125.1544375559112@mail.yahoo.com> <3CB5D14A-FCE1-4C56-8570-AB59FBA9AC41@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1279614809.1261456.1544389259900@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,?I can fabricate something, ?but just seeing what might be hanging around.Hank On Sunday, December 9, 2018, 12:50:11 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,there is the Deep Sea Power & Light battery box.http://www.deepsea.com/portfolio-items/seabattery-power-module/Probably very expensive.?I built one out of marine ply for a 48V lithium battery pack, but this was forgoing in a boat not underwater.You could easily taylor something to your battery configuration with marineply, screwing & glueing it together & covering it with epoxy. I would mix a?thickener with the epoxy & fillet the joints. They make boats like this soshould be good for a battery box!Cheers Alan On 10/12/2018, at 6:12 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all,I am in search of some oil filled battery box's . ?I just need the boxes not the batteries. ?Any leads?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 479092 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 9 16:35:07 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 10:35:07 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery boxes In-Reply-To: <1279614809.1261456.1544389259900@mail.yahoo.com> References: <590454345.1165125.1544375559112.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <590454345.1165125.1544375559112@mail.yahoo.com> <3CB5D14A-FCE1-4C56-8570-AB59FBA9AC41@yahoo.com> <1279614809.1261456.1544389259900@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4195A947-1ABD-4F67-94A9-89DB66B20CE3@yahoo.com> Hank, yes always good if you can find something, but difficult. You have changed my ideas with your posts on battery boxes & I am thinking I should go that way over the 1 atm cylinder. I could design it in CAD & get the sections cut perfectly, then build a wall for a silicone or polyurathane seal mold, & cast the mold on a sheet of glass. Maybe fibreglass over & inside the box. I picked up some ideas from Vance's post on the battery box. Alan > On 10/12/2018, at 10:00 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I can fabricate something, but just seeing what might be hanging around. > Hank > > On Sunday, December 9, 2018, 12:50:11 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > there is the Deep Sea Power & Light battery box. > http://www.deepsea.com/portfolio-items/seabattery-power-module/ > Probably very expensive. > I built one out of marine ply for a 48V lithium battery pack, but this was for > going in a boat not underwater. > You could easily taylor something to your battery configuration with marine > ply, screwing & glueing it together & covering it with epoxy. I would mix a > thickener with the epoxy & fillet the joints. They make boats like this so > should be good for a battery box! > Cheers Alan > > >> On 10/12/2018, at 6:12 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> I am in search of some oil filled battery box's . I just need the boxes not the batteries. >> Any leads? >> Hank >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 9 18:00:09 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2018 15:00:09 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery boxes Message-ID: <20181209150009.57F8D4CE@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 9 18:43:36 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2018 23:43:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery boxes In-Reply-To: <20181209150009.57F8D4CE@m0117457.ppops.net> References: <20181209150009.57F8D4CE@m0117457.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1721850225.1289827.1544399016217@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,I might just cut up a fibreglass canopy that I have sitting here. ?I just cut it into pieces and glass them together.Hank On Sunday, December 9, 2018, 4:00:25 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: you could just fiberglass over a cardboard?box . Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery boxes Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 10:35:07 +1300 Hank,yes always good if you can find something, but difficult.You have changed my ideas with your posts on battery boxes & I am thinkingI should go that way over the 1 atm cylinder.I could design it in CAD & get the sections cut perfectly, then build a wall for a?silicone or polyurathane seal mold, & cast the mold on a sheet of glass.Maybe fibreglass over & inside the box.I picked up some ideas from Vance's post on the battery box.Alan On 10/12/2018, at 10:00 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,?I can fabricate something, ?but just seeing what might be hanging around.Hank On Sunday, December 9, 2018, 12:50:11 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,there is the Deep Sea Power & Light battery box.http://www.deepsea.com/portfolio-items/seabattery-power-module/Probably very expensive.?I built one out of marine ply for a 48V lithium battery pack, but this was forgoing in a boat not underwater.You could easily taylor something to your battery configuration with marineply, screwing & glueing it together & covering it with epoxy. I would mix a?thickener with the epoxy & fillet the joints. They make boats like this soshould be good for a battery box!Cheers Alan On 10/12/2018, at 6:12 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all,I am in search of some oil filled battery box's . ?I just need the boxes not the batteries. ?Any leads?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 9 21:49:46 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2018 18:49:46 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery boxes Message-ID: <20181209184946.57F9601A@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 10 04:38:02 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 09:38:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery boxes In-Reply-To: <20181209184946.57F9601A@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20181209184946.57F9601A@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1846571906.1424727.1544434683000@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,I am using golf cart lead acid batteries.?Hank On Sunday, December 9, 2018, 7:50:10 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Definitely?!? What size are the batteries? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery boxes Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2018 23:43:36 +0000 (UTC) Brian,I might just cut up a fibreglass canopy that I have sitting here. ?I just cut it into pieces and glass them together.Hank On Sunday, December 9, 2018, 4:00:25 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: you could just fiberglass over a cardboard?box . Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery boxes Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 10:35:07 +1300 Hank,yes always good if you can find something, but difficult.You have changed my ideas with your posts on battery boxes & I am thinkingI should go that way over the 1 atm cylinder.I could design it in CAD & get the sections cut perfectly, then build a wall for a?silicone or polyurathane seal mold, & cast the mold on a sheet of glass.Maybe fibreglass over & inside the box.I picked up some ideas from Vance's post on the battery box.Alan On 10/12/2018, at 10:00 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,?I can fabricate something, ?but just seeing what might be hanging around.Hank On Sunday, December 9, 2018, 12:50:11 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,there is the Deep Sea Power & Light battery box.http://www.deepsea.com/portfolio-items/seabattery-power-module/Probably very expensive.?I built one out of marine ply for a 48V lithium battery pack, but this was forgoing in a boat not underwater.You could easily taylor something to your battery configuration with marineply, screwing & glueing it together & covering it with epoxy. I would mix a?thickener with the epoxy & fillet the joints. They make boats like this soshould be good for a battery box!Cheers Alan On 10/12/2018, at 6:12 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all,I am in search of some oil filled battery box's . ?I just need the boxes not the batteries. ?Any leads?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 10 06:15:53 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 11:15:53 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery boxes In-Reply-To: <590454345.1165125.1544375559112@mail.yahoo.com> References: <590454345.1165125.1544375559112.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <590454345.1165125.1544375559112@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Old ammunition boxes are good for all sorts of things. Watertight as well. I've got loads in all sorts of sizes. https://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/ammo-box On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 at 17:13, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi all, > I am in search of some oil filled battery box's . I just need the boxes not the batteries. > Any leads? > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 10 08:13:14 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 13:13:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery boxes In-Reply-To: References: <590454345.1165125.1544375559112.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <590454345.1165125.1544375559112@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <214185102.1497346.1544447594355@mail.yahoo.com> James,?i decided to make a fibreglass box today by cutting up an old canopy. ? ?i am killing two birds with one stone, because I have to get rid of it anyways. ?I like it being Fibreglass anyways for safety reasons. ?I am making it longer to accommodate relays also.Hankps; how is your new build coming On Monday, December 10, 2018, 4:16:22 AM MST, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Old ammunition boxes are good for all sorts of things.? Watertight as well.? I've got loads in all sorts of sizes. https://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/ammo-box On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 at 17:13, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi all, > I am in search of some oil filled battery box's .? I just need the boxes not the batteries. > Any leads? > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 10 17:36:25 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 09:36:25 +1100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery boxes In-Reply-To: <214185102.1497346.1544447594355@mail.yahoo.com> References: <590454345.1165125.1544375559112.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <590454345.1165125.1544375559112@mail.yahoo.com> <214185102.1497346.1544447594355@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, I'm curious about how the relays will go (perhaps it's been done?) in an ambient environment. Ie if they are sealed they might implode. Also what the oil might do with the arc caused by contacts making/breaking. Cheers, Steve On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 12:14 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, > i decided to make a fibreglass box today by cutting up an old canopy. > i am killing two birds with one stone, because I have to get rid of it > anyways. I like it being Fibreglass anyways for safety reasons. I am > making it longer to accommodate relays also. > Hank > ps; how is your new build coming > > On Monday, December 10, 2018, 4:16:22 AM MST, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Old ammunition boxes are good for all sorts of things. Watertight as > well. I've got loads in all sorts of sizes. > > https://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/ammo-box > > On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 at 17:13, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > I am in search of some oil filled battery box's . I just need the boxes > not the batteries. > > Any leads? > > Hank > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 10 18:26:58 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 23:26:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery boxes In-Reply-To: References: <590454345.1165125.1544375559112.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <590454345.1165125.1544375559112@mail.yahoo.com> <214185102.1497346.1544447594355@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1538003970.1916311.1544484418918@mail.yahoo.com> Steve,I am told it may ?fail, but I am not convinced. ?I expect the contacts to carbon up but I am using big robust relays and I will drill them out. ?They are pretty cheap to replace annually.The reason for putting them in the battery box is reduced cable length. ?I have to have the weight of the batteries at the very back end of the sub for balance. ?That means the cables would be 6 feet to the penetrator then to the relays then back out to the motors. ?I would be running 50 amps 12 feet. ?I have a fairly small battery bank and don't want to waste power on long cable leads.I made the battery box today and it turned out great!Hank On Monday, December 10, 2018, 3:36:55 PM MST, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank,I'm curious about how the relays will go (perhaps it's been done?) in an ambient environment.? Ie if they are sealed they might implode. Also what the oil might do with the arc caused by contacts making/breaking. Cheers,Steve On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 12:14 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James,?i decided to make a fibreglass box today by cutting up an old canopy. ? ?i am killing two birds with one stone, because I have to get rid of it anyways.? I like it being Fibreglass anyways for safety reasons.? I am making it longer to accommodate relays also.Hankps; how is your new build coming On Monday, December 10, 2018, 4:16:22 AM MST, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Old ammunition boxes are good for all sorts of things.? Watertight as well.? I've got loads in all sorts of sizes. https://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/ammo-box On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 at 17:13, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi all, > I am in search of some oil filled battery box's .? I just need the boxes not the batteries. > Any leads? > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 10 19:38:21 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 16:38:21 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Battery boxes In-Reply-To: <1538003970.1916311.1544484418918@mail.yahoo.com> References: <590454345.1165125.1544375559112.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <590454345.1165125.1544375559112@mail.yahoo.com> <214185102.1497346.1544447594355@mail.yahoo.com> <1538003970.1916311.1544484418918@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, Send pictures. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 3:27 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Steve, > I am told it may fail, but I am not convinced. I expect the contacts to > carbon up but I am using big robust relays and I will drill them out. They > are pretty cheap to replace annually. > The reason for putting them in the battery box is reduced cable length. I > have to have the weight of the batteries at the very back end of the sub > for balance. That means the cables would be 6 feet to the penetrator then > to the relays then back out to the motors. I would be running 50 amps 12 > feet. I have a fairly small battery bank and don't want to waste power on > long cable leads. > I made the battery box today and it turned out great! > Hank > > On Monday, December 10, 2018, 3:36:55 PM MST, Stephen Fordyce via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > I'm curious about how the relays will go (perhaps it's been done?) in an > ambient environment. Ie if they are sealed they might implode. > > Also what the oil might do with the arc caused by contacts making/breaking. > > Cheers, > Steve > > On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 12:14 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > James, > i decided to make a fibreglass box today by cutting up an old canopy. > i am killing two birds with one stone, because I have to get rid of it > anyways. I like it being Fibreglass anyways for safety reasons. I am > making it longer to accommodate relays also. > Hank > ps; how is your new build coming > > On Monday, December 10, 2018, 4:16:22 AM MST, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Old ammunition boxes are good for all sorts of things. Watertight as > well. I've got loads in all sorts of sizes. > > https://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/ammo-box > > On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 at 17:13, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > I am in search of some oil filled battery box's . I just need the boxes > not the batteries. > > Any leads? > > Hank > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 11 20:08:51 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 01:08:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: IMG_8377.JPG.jpeg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <941594646.2545337.1544576932029@mail.yahoo.com> David,Here is my battery box, in filler primer ready for paint tomorrow. ?This was a truck canopy a few days ago lolHank ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: hank pronk To: hank pronk Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2018, 6:06:38 PM MSTSubject: IMG_8377.JPG.jpeg Sent from my iPhone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_8377.JPG.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 374363 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 11 21:20:58 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 18:20:58 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: IMG_8377.JPG.jpeg In-Reply-To: <941594646.2545337.1544576932029@mail.yahoo.com> References: <941594646.2545337.1544576932029@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank You amaze me! Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 5:10 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, > Here is my battery box, in filler primer ready for paint tomorrow. This > was a truck canopy a few days ago lol > Hank > > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > *From:* hank pronk > *To:* hank pronk > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 11, 2018, 6:06:38 PM MST > *Subject:* IMG_8377.JPG.jpeg > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 11 21:37:09 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 18:37:09 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: IMG_8377.JPG.jpeg Message-ID: <20181211183709.57F82353@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 11 22:54:33 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 16:54:33 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: IMG_8377.JPG.jpeg In-Reply-To: <941594646.2545337.1544576932029@mail.yahoo.com> References: <941594646.2545337.1544576932029@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, that was fast! BTW I did some testing to see what would happen if a battery box flooded in salt water, by putting wires from a 12V battery in a bucket of local beach water battery terminal distance apart. Was having trouble with the readings but less than 1 amp current draw. The test stripped the coating off my multi meter probe & bubbles of hydrogen were being given off; maybe a cup full every hour. Alan > On 12/12/2018, at 2:08 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > David, > Here is my battery box, in filler primer ready for paint tomorrow. This was a truck canopy a few days ago lol > Hank > > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > From: hank pronk > To: hank pronk > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2018, 6:06:38 PM MST > Subject: IMG_8377.JPG.jpeg > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 11 23:08:37 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 20:08:37 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: IMG_8377.JPG.jpeg In-Reply-To: Wt1egiZdysc7nWt1gg8eAL References: Wt1egiZdysc7nWt1gg8eAL Message-ID: <006101d491d0$5c332db0$14998910$@telus.net> Incredible, Hank. Is there nothing that can't build? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2018 5:09 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: IMG_8377.JPG.jpeg David, Here is my battery box, in filler primer ready for paint tomorrow. This was a truck canopy a few days ago lol Hank ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: hank pronk > To: hank pronk > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2018, 6:06:38 PM MST Subject: IMG_8377.JPG.jpeg Sent from my iPhone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 12 08:58:00 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 06:58:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: References: Message-ID: Hi all Here is a picture of my latest find at the dump. These are from a local coffee factory. How many submarine parts do you see Hank Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: > From: hank pronk > Date: December 12, 2018 at 6:54:50 AM MST > To: hank pronk > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0237.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 788782 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 12 10:31:08 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 07:31:08 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hank, I see an electric take up wheel for a buoy float system, with speed control, water resistant box, step down transformer, alum arm for a camera mount and possible rotary wrist motor for an actuator. David On Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 5:59 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi all > Here is a picture of my latest find at the dump. These are from a local > coffee factory. How many submarine parts do you see > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > > Begin forwarded message: > > *From:* hank pronk > *Date:* December 12, 2018 at 6:54:50 AM MST > *To:* hank pronk > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0237.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 788782 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 12 10:44:40 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 08:44:40 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2A485429-D9B8-4B2D-BEFF-5DFE28DE6539@yahoo.ca> David, on the other side is a cutter and three air cylinders also. I have three of these. Gamma is getting a new buoy reel from one If anyone wants anything from these, I am happy to share Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 12, 2018, at 8:31 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > I see an electric take up wheel for a buoy float system, with speed control, water resistant box, step down transformer, alum arm for a camera mount and possible rotary wrist motor for an actuator. > David > >> On Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 5:59 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hi all >> Here is a picture of my latest find at the dump. These are from a local coffee factory. How many submarine parts do you see >> Hank >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: hank pronk >>> Date: December 12, 2018 at 6:54:50 AM MST >>> To: hank pronk >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 12 13:46:51 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 07:46:51 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hank, great score. You have just about got Canada's first Mars Rover there! Any idea what it was. Alan > On 13/12/2018, at 2:58 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi all > Here is a picture of my latest find at the dump. These are from a local coffee factory. How many submarine parts do you see > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: hank pronk >> Date: December 12, 2018 at 6:54:50 AM MST >> To: hank pronk >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 12 13:53:46 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 18:53:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1111077637.2983730.1544640826907@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,?They are for packaging coffee some how . ?When I spotted them, I had my wife stand guard over them while I dumped my load to make room for them. ?My wife is a good sport lol.They are full of anodized aluminum parts that can be re-used.Hank On Wednesday, December 12, 2018, 11:47:13 AM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,great score. You have just about got Canada's first Mars Rover there!Any idea what it was.?Alan On 13/12/2018, at 2:58 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi allHere is a picture of my latest find at the dump. These are from a local coffee factory. How many submarine parts do you seeHank Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: From: hank pronk Date: December 12, 2018 at 6:54:50 AM MST To: hank pronk Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 12 15:16:56 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 09:16:56 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: In-Reply-To: <1111077637.2983730.1544640826907@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1111077637.2983730.1544640826907@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <185012F5-E14D-4065-B842-2CA9359E66C9@yahoo.com> Hank, I would have grabbed it too. The aluminium as scrap is worth a bit aside from the pulleys & motors. Looks to be a pneumatic cylinder there too. Glad your wife is on board. Alan > On 13/12/2018, at 7:53 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > They are for packaging coffee some how . When I spotted them, I had my wife stand guard over them while I dumped my load to make room for them. My wife is a good sport lol. > They are full of anodized aluminum parts that can be re-used. > Hank > > On Wednesday, December 12, 2018, 11:47:13 AM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > great score. You have just about got Canada's first Mars Rover there! > Any idea what it was. > Alan > >> On 13/12/2018, at 2:58 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > > Hi all > Here is a picture of my latest find at the dump. These are from a local coffee factory. How many submarine parts do you see > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: hank pronk >> Date: December 12, 2018 at 6:54:50 AM MST >> To: hank pronk >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 15 00:03:57 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 21:03:57 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor progress Message-ID: Hi Guys, Forty some of years ago I started to dream of traveling under the sea. Over the years I would revisit that dream, make revisions and then life would have me put it back on the shelf. Today the essence of that dream was realized as I received the pressure hull for the Seaquestor submarine. It's a one of a kind, inspired and influenced by Jaucques Cousteau, the TV series Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, SeaQuest DSV, and the delta flyer from the star trek series Voyager. First mission is to a lake in Montana in August. Nine months to launch. Build series videos in the works. Now onto the exterior shell and all the instrumentation build. Now looking for future crew members. David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image3703154484522319315.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 265319 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image5104689685065944208.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 289046 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image6732462543486919255.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 294660 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image7457448674442265426.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 336092 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image5146365955409919216.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 160562 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image462142843127033944.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 297295 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 15 00:15:59 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 21:15:59 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor progress Message-ID: Hi Guys, though that you might be interested to know a couple of facts on the pressure hull I picked up today. The total weight of hull, all t-rings, and thru hull penatration plates weighed in at 2460 lbs. Design goal is 4100lbs total weight. Yet to add 720 in batteries, 200 lbs in exoskeleton, 250 lbs in thrusters, air and o2 tanks 180 lbs, pilot console 45 lbs, misc plumbing and wiring systems 250 lbs. Hatch rings and domes 340 lbs.Looks like were gonna be pretty darn close. Total custom fab cost, labor and materials 17.5k Welding yet to be priced. David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image2544641524305331447.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 289046 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 15 00:43:08 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 21:43:08 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor progress In-Reply-To: Y2JXgHKWMUljYY2JZg3faf References: Y2JXgHKWMUljYY2JZg3faf Message-ID: <009f01d49439$1005f6a0$3011e3e0$@telus.net> Looks great, David. Looking forward to first launch date. What lake in Montana do you have in mind? Perhaps that should be the 2019 convention location. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, December 14, 2018 9:16 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor progress Hi Guys, though that you might be interested to know a couple of facts on the pressure hull I picked up today. The total weight of hull, all t-rings, and thru hull penatration plates weighed in at 2460 lbs. Design goal is 4100lbs total weight. Yet to add 720 in batteries, 200 lbs in exoskeleton, 250 lbs in thrusters, air and o2 tanks 180 lbs, pilot console 45 lbs, misc plumbing and wiring systems 250 lbs. Hatch rings and domes 340 lbs.Looks like were gonna be pretty darn close. Total custom fab cost, labor and materials 17.5k Welding yet to be priced. David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 15 10:50:03 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2018 09:50:03 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2019 Flathead Lake Expedtion Message-ID: 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition Since David mentioned his goal in getting his boat ready for dive next year in Montana, I thought I would update the Psub community on the expedition. On August 5-9, 2019, the 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition is planned. This is a joint effort between InnerSpace.Org https://www.innerspacescience.org/ and the Flathead Bio Station https://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs . FLBS is operated by the University of Montana. I am the point person for this Expedition from the Innerspace Science/PSub side and Jim Craft, https://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs/about-flbs/people/page-elements/flbs-people/people/jim-craft/ from the FLBS, UM science side. Tom Bansak, http://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs/about-flbs/people/page-elements/flbs-people/people/tom-bansak/ , the assistant director at FLBS, is also working closely with Jim Craft on the Expedition. Organizationally, this Expedition will be structured much like the 2018 Lake Tahoe Expedition. The base station for the dive is going to be the FHBS facility at Yellow Bay on the west side of the lake. At this time two psubs are committed to come. Hank Pronk is bringing Nekton Gamma and I am bringing the R300. If David is able to finish fabrication and testing by then, then he is welcome to bring SeaQuester. Jim Craft is working with his FLBS colleges to develop the science objectives which will primarily be completed with Nekton Gamma as she can take a passenger. Gamma will be fitted with an instrumentation package, the Hydrolab DS5 - Multiparameter Data Sonde https://www.ott.com/en-uk/products/water-quality-2/hydrolab-ds5-multiparameter-data-sonde-56/ . FLBS has two of these data sondes but they may have one of these committed on an existing research project. If it is available, it will be mounted on the R300. These data sondes log Temperature, Conductivity, Depth, pH, Oxygen Reduction Potential (ORP), Dissolved Oxygen (LDO), Dissolved Oxygen (Clark Cell), Turbidity, Chlorophyll a, Blue-Green Algae, Rhodamine WT, Ammonium, Nitrate, Chloride, Total Dissolved Gas (TDG), and Ambient Light. One of the planned science missions is for Gamma to do a submerged transect from the mouth of the Flathead river at the north of the lake to Big Arm Bay logging with the DS5 and capturing bottom samples along the path. Hank is in the process of adding the capability to Gamma to take these samples. A bathymetric map of the lake can be found at http://flatheadlakers.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/bathymap.pdf Dr. Josef Crepeau, Associate Prof. Mathematics, University of Montana has agreed to provide dive support with his 19ft Boston Whaler. The plan is for Josef to use his vessel to tender the R300 and FLBS?s 30 foot research vessel will be tendering Nekton Gamma. We have a number of psubbers that are tentatively involved: Cliff Redus Rick Maxwell Hank Pronk and wife Jon Wallace Doug Suhr Jr. Doug Suhr Sr. Alec Symth (Provisional depending on his son?s racing schedule) David Colombo and wife Limited sleeping accommodation for some of the psub contingent has been provided at FLBS base station using their faculty cabins but these cabins now are fully committed. There are a number of hotels in Polson but be aware that reservation would need to be made early for these as they tend to fill up fast for the summer. We have a local contact, Masson Niblack, who lives in Polson working with us as well for local info. Along with the long submerged transect that Hank is going to make, we will also be doing a joint night dive to see the difference in the marine community between day and night. There are several wall dives that are also planned. As we get closer to the date, we will get a better picture of the planned dives. On Friday afternoon August 9th, FLBS is hosting an open house for the public and has asked Innerspace Science to have the subs available for 400-500 students. Flathead Lake is one of the largest clearest lakes in the US. The 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition should be a hoot! Cliff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 15 11:53:32 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2018 11:53:32 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2019 Flathead Lake Expedtion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Cliff, thanks so much for organizing. It's a weird and wonderful luxury for me to just sit back and watch the emails come through showing everything falling into place, but I know none of it is happening on its own! Best, Alec On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 10:50 AM Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition > > Since David mentioned his goal in getting his boat ready for dive next > year in Montana, I thought I would update the Psub community on the > expedition. On August 5-9, 2019, the 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition is > planned. This is a joint effort between InnerSpace.Org > https://www.innerspacescience.org/ and the Flathead Bio Station > https://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs . FLBS is operated by the University of > Montana. I am the point person for this Expedition from the Innerspace > Science/PSub side and Jim Craft, > https://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs/about-flbs/people/page-elements/flbs-people/people/jim-craft/ > from the FLBS, UM science side. Tom Bansak, > http://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs/about-flbs/people/page-elements/flbs-people/people/tom-bansak/ > , the assistant director at FLBS, is also working closely with Jim Craft on > the Expedition. Organizationally, this Expedition will be structured > much like the 2018 Lake Tahoe Expedition. The base station for the dive > is going to be the FHBS facility at Yellow Bay on the west side of the lake. > At this time two psubs are committed to come. Hank Pronk is bringing > Nekton Gamma and I am bringing the R300. If David is able to finish > fabrication and testing by then, then he is welcome to bring SeaQuester. Jim > Craft is working with his FLBS colleges to develop the science objectives > which will primarily be completed with Nekton Gamma as she can take a > passenger. Gamma will be fitted with an instrumentation package, the > Hydrolab DS5 - Multiparameter Data Sonde > https://www.ott.com/en-uk/products/water-quality-2/hydrolab-ds5-multiparameter-data-sonde-56/ > . FLBS has two of these data sondes but they may have one of these > committed on an existing research project. If it is available, it will > be mounted on the R300. These data sondes log Temperature, Conductivity, > Depth, pH, Oxygen Reduction Potential (ORP), Dissolved Oxygen (LDO), > Dissolved Oxygen (Clark Cell), Turbidity, Chlorophyll a, Blue-Green Algae, > Rhodamine WT, Ammonium, Nitrate, Chloride, Total Dissolved Gas (TDG), and > Ambient Light. > > One of the planned science missions is for Gamma to do a submerged > transect from the mouth of the Flathead river at the north of the lake to > Big Arm Bay logging with the DS5 and capturing bottom samples along the > path. Hank is in the process of adding the capability to Gamma to take > these samples. A bathymetric map of the lake can be found at > http://flatheadlakers.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/bathymap.pdf > > Dr. Josef Crepeau, Associate Prof. Mathematics, University of Montana has > agreed to provide dive support with his 19ft Boston Whaler. The plan is for > Josef to use his vessel to tender the R300 and FLBS?s 30 foot research > vessel will be tendering Nekton Gamma. We have a number of psubbers that > are tentatively involved: > Cliff Redus > Rick Maxwell > Hank Pronk and wife > Jon Wallace > Doug Suhr Jr. > Doug Suhr Sr. > Alec Symth (Provisional depending on his son?s racing schedule) > David Colombo and wife > > Limited sleeping accommodation for some of the psub contingent has been > provided at FLBS base station using their faculty cabins but these cabins > now are fully committed. There are a number of hotels in Polson but be > aware that reservation would need to be made early for these as they tend > to fill up fast for the summer. We have a local contact, Masson Niblack, > who lives in Polson working with us as well for local info. > > Along with the long submerged transect that Hank is going to make, we will > also be doing a joint night dive to see the difference in the marine > community between day and night. There are several wall dives that are > also planned. As we get closer to the date, we will get a better picture > of the planned dives. > > On Friday afternoon August 9th, FLBS is hosting an open house for the > public and has asked Innerspace Science to have the subs available for > 400-500 students. > Flathead Lake is one of the largest clearest lakes in the US. The 2019 > Flathead Lake Expedition should be a hoot! > Cliff > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 15 14:04:27 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2018 13:04:27 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2019 Flathead Lake Expedtion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alec, three things have really helped. The first is having participated in the 2018 Lake Tahoe Expedition and leveraging off this prior event, second in having a single interested group, FLBS, really wanting to see this happen and third, is the video you did at Lake Tahoe which was instrumental in getting buy in with FLBS. I am hoping your son's driving schedule will permit you to participate and do your video magic. Glad to hear your successful test of Shakleton. Have a blessed Christmas! On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 10:54 AM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, thanks so much for organizing. It's a weird and wonderful luxury > for me to just sit back and watch the emails come through showing > everything falling into place, but I know none of it is happening on its > own! > > Best, > Alec > > On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 10:50 AM Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition >> >> Since David mentioned his goal in getting his boat ready for dive next >> year in Montana, I thought I would update the Psub community on the >> expedition. On August 5-9, 2019, the 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition is >> planned. This is a joint effort between InnerSpace.Org >> https://www.innerspacescience.org/ and the Flathead Bio Station >> https://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs . FLBS is operated by the University of >> Montana. I am the point person for this Expedition from the Innerspace >> Science/PSub side and Jim Craft, >> https://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs/about-flbs/people/page-elements/flbs-people/people/jim-craft/ >> from the FLBS, UM science side. Tom Bansak, >> http://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs/about-flbs/people/page-elements/flbs-people/people/tom-bansak/ >> , the assistant director at FLBS, is also working closely with Jim Craft on >> the Expedition. Organizationally, this Expedition will be structured >> much like the 2018 Lake Tahoe Expedition. The base station for the dive >> is going to be the FHBS facility at Yellow Bay on the west side of the lake. >> At this time two psubs are committed to come. Hank Pronk is bringing >> Nekton Gamma and I am bringing the R300. If David is able to finish >> fabrication and testing by then, then he is welcome to bring SeaQuester. >> Jim Craft is working with his FLBS colleges to develop the science >> objectives which will primarily be completed with Nekton Gamma as she can >> take a passenger. Gamma will be fitted with an instrumentation package, >> the Hydrolab DS5 - Multiparameter Data Sonde >> https://www.ott.com/en-uk/products/water-quality-2/hydrolab-ds5-multiparameter-data-sonde-56/ >> . FLBS has two of these data sondes but they may have one of these >> committed on an existing research project. If it is available, it will >> be mounted on the R300. These data sondes log Temperature, >> Conductivity, Depth, pH, Oxygen Reduction Potential (ORP), Dissolved Oxygen >> (LDO), Dissolved Oxygen (Clark Cell), Turbidity, Chlorophyll a, Blue-Green >> Algae, Rhodamine WT, Ammonium, Nitrate, Chloride, Total Dissolved Gas >> (TDG), and Ambient Light. >> >> One of the planned science missions is for Gamma to do a submerged >> transect from the mouth of the Flathead river at the north of the lake to >> Big Arm Bay logging with the DS5 and capturing bottom samples along the >> path. Hank is in the process of adding the capability to Gamma to take >> these samples. A bathymetric map of the lake can be found at >> http://flatheadlakers.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/bathymap.pdf >> >> Dr. Josef Crepeau, Associate Prof. Mathematics, University of Montana has >> agreed to provide dive support with his 19ft Boston Whaler. The plan is for >> Josef to use his vessel to tender the R300 and FLBS?s 30 foot research >> vessel will be tendering Nekton Gamma. We have a number of psubbers >> that are tentatively involved: >> Cliff Redus >> Rick Maxwell >> Hank Pronk and wife >> Jon Wallace >> Doug Suhr Jr. >> Doug Suhr Sr. >> Alec Symth (Provisional depending on his son?s racing schedule) >> David Colombo and wife >> >> Limited sleeping accommodation for some of the psub contingent has been >> provided at FLBS base station using their faculty cabins but these cabins >> now are fully committed. There are a number of hotels in Polson but be >> aware that reservation would need to be made early for these as they tend >> to fill up fast for the summer. We have a local contact, Masson >> Niblack, who lives in Polson working with us as well for local info. >> >> Along with the long submerged transect that Hank is going to make, we >> will also be doing a joint night dive to see the difference in the marine >> community between day and night. There are several wall dives that are >> also planned. As we get closer to the date, we will get a better >> picture of the planned dives. >> >> On Friday afternoon August 9th, FLBS is hosting an open house for the >> public and has asked Innerspace Science to have the subs available for >> 400-500 students. >> Flathead Lake is one of the largest clearest lakes in the US. The 2019 >> Flathead Lake Expedition should be a hoot! >> Cliff >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 15 18:25:06 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:25:06 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gel coat nightmare Message-ID: <20181215152506.57FD46BA@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 15 22:09:54 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2018 17:09:54 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gel coat nightmare In-Reply-To: <20181215152506.57FD46BA@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20181215152506.57FD46BA@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: I hate working with glass and am not looking forward to making my MBT's! if it's any consolation, I knew of a guy who was building his own 36' sailboat out of fiberglass in the late 60,s and he didn't get the resin/hardener ratio correct for the temperature and humidity for that day and it never set up all the way! Never did hear what he did but probably sold it as is where is and went out and bought one all ready done! Rick On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 1:25 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, > Fun and games with my gel coat project ! Thought I was > doing everything right but apparently not. After waxing my mold 4 times ( > 4 layers) then I applied the PVA mold release with a spray gun, that went > well, so far so good. Then time to spray the gel coat, that went well > also, though I probably did not spray a thick enough layer, but my big > boner of a mistake was letting the gel coat sit too long, apparently I was > suppose to apply the resin and fiberglass layers while the gel coat is > still tacky otherwise the gel coat material changes chemically over time > and crystallizes . Anyway the result is a big gooey mess, luckily I was > able to stop before getting too far along. Instead of the gel coat > adhering to the fiberglass it started breaking down and melting into the > resin and it got all crinkly. So now I'm going to to wait and let what > I've done set up so I can pull it off and start all over again ! > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 16 00:21:58 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:21:58 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gel coat nightmare Message-ID: <20181215212158.57F96685@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 16 02:48:45 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2018 23:48:45 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor progress Message-ID: <1109239729.6753.1544946525283@wamui-bison.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 16 03:21:31 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2018 00:21:31 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor progress In-Reply-To: <1109239729.6753.1544946525283@wamui-bison.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <1109239729.6753.1544946525283@wamui-bison.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Thanks Ian, if you knew how many hours I've spent sketching, translating into cad drawings, and then reading the details and redrafting them. Must be the architect in me. Half the fun is the design aesthetic and working thru the functionality and keeping it cool looking. Tomorrow I start the cnc rib skeleton form work getting ready for the foam and then the molding for the fiberglass shell. David. On Sat, Dec 15, 2018, 11:49 PM irox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi David, > > looks great! Very impressed with your progress! I know you have a really > lot of thought and planning going into your sub, but it is very > inspirational how quickly you are executing on your vision, and how high > quality your build looks. > > Cheers! > Ian. > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Dec 14, 2018 9:03 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor progress > > Hi Guys, > Forty some of years ago I started to dream of traveling under the sea. > Over the years I would revisit that dream, make revisions and then life > would have me put it back on the shelf. Today the essence of that dream was > realized as I received the pressure hull for the Seaquestor submarine. It's > a one of a kind, inspired and influenced by Jaucques Cousteau, the TV > series Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, SeaQuest DSV, and the delta flyer > from the star trek series Voyager. First mission is to a lake in Montana in > August. Nine months to launch. Build series videos in the works. Now onto > the exterior shell and all the instrumentation build. Now looking for > future crew members. > > David > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 16 15:15:12 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2018 12:15:12 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gel coat nightmare Message-ID: <20181216121512.57FE6F09@m0117566.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1485.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 84069 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 16 15:46:59 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2018 21:46:59 +0100 (CET) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gel coat nightmare In-Reply-To: <20181216121512.57FE6F09@m0117566.ppops.net> References: <20181216121512.57FE6F09@m0117566.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1544993219747.451006.f598a78acd9412c68dae610f32ac7fbba044d5a6@spica.telekom.de> https://www.fibreglast.com/product/gel-coat-troubleshooting-guide/Learning_Center most common: - to tick and as result: to hot, endterme overheating - wrong mixture to much peroxid? As result overheating - to much humindty - to much divider wax vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gel coat nightmare Datum: 2018-12-16T21:16:23+0100 Von: "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Here is what the gel coat did, I'm thinking it was more a function of the thickness of the gel coat rather than letting it sit too long , probably both issues affected the crinkling effect. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gel coat nightmare Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:21:58 -0800 Rick, Thanks Rick, as long as I can share with somebody else's misery I can carry on ! There are a lot of factors that affect the resin, humidity is a big one along with temperature. Definitely not as easy as making a surfboard ! Luckily I have a guy that is sort of guiding me through this, I ran into him in the boatyard and I've been calling him when I get in trouble, a very helpful guy, he says he can sympathize since he's already been through it. But he says even the pro's have issues sometimes when the elements throw you a curve ball. I thought by waiting until the next day it would be better since the shop would be warm during the day but I didn't realize the critical time frame on applying the resin after the gel coat. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: psubs chat room Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gel coat nightmare Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2018 17:09:54 -1000 I hate working with glass and am not looking forward to making my MBT's! if it's any consolation, I knew of a guy who was building his own 36' sailboat out of fiberglass in the late 60,s and he didn't get the resin/hardener ratio correct for the temperature and humidity for that day and it never set up all the way! Never did hear what he did but probably sold it as is where is and went out and bought one all ready done! Rick On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 1:25 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: Hi All, Fun and games with my gel coat project ! Thought I was doing everything right but apparently not. After waxing my mold 4 times ( 4 layers) then I applied the PVA mold release with a spray gun, that went well, so far so good. Then time to spray the gel coat, that went well also, though I probably did not spray a thick enough layer, but my big boner of a mistake was letting the gel coat sit too long, apparently I was suppose to apply the resin and fiberglass layers while the gel coat is still tacky otherwise the gel coat material changes chemically over time and crystallizes . Anyway the result is a big gooey mess, luckily I was able to stop before getting too far along. Instead of the gel coat adhering to the fiberglass it started breaking down and melting into the resin and it got all crinkly. So now I'm going to to wait and let what I've done set up so I can pull it off and start all over again ! Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 16 16:05:29 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2018 13:05:29 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gel coat nightmare Message-ID: <20181216130529.57FF2EB5@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 16 21:40:02 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 15:40:02 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2019 Flathead Lake Expedtion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7355385D-2BD0-40E6-8B25-40FEBF1035FA@yahoo.com> Great stuff Cliff, that's going to be one heck of a long journey! Alan > On 16/12/2018, at 4:50 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition > > Since David mentioned his goal in getting his boat ready for dive next year in Montana, I thought I would update the Psub community on the expedition. On August 5-9, 2019, the 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition is planned. This is a joint effort between InnerSpace.Org https://www.innerspacescience.org/ and the Flathead Bio Station https://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs . FLBS is operated by the University of Montana. I am the point person for this Expedition from the Innerspace Science/PSub side and Jim Craft, https://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs/about-flbs/people/page-elements/flbs-people/people/jim-craft/ from the FLBS, UM science side. Tom Bansak, http://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs/about-flbs/people/page-elements/flbs-people/people/tom-bansak/ , the assistant director at FLBS, is also working closely with Jim Craft on the Expedition. Organizationally, this Expedition will be structured much like the 2018 Lake Tahoe Expedition. The base station for the dive is going to be the FHBS facility at Yellow Bay on the west side of the lake. At this time two psubs are committed to come. Hank Pronk is bringing Nekton Gamma and I am bringing the R300. If David is able to finish fabrication and testing by then, then he is welcome to bring SeaQuester. Jim Craft is working with his FLBS colleges to develop the science objectives which will primarily be completed with Nekton Gamma as she can take a passenger. Gamma will be fitted with an instrumentation package, the Hydrolab DS5 - Multiparameter Data Sonde https://www.ott.com/en-uk/products/water-quality-2/hydrolab-ds5-multiparameter-data-sonde-56/. FLBS has two of these data sondes but they may have one of these committed on an existing research project. If it is available, it will be mounted on the R300. These data sondes log Temperature, Conductivity, Depth, pH, Oxygen Reduction Potential (ORP), Dissolved Oxygen (LDO), Dissolved Oxygen (Clark Cell), Turbidity, Chlorophyll a, Blue-Green Algae, Rhodamine WT, Ammonium, Nitrate, Chloride, Total Dissolved Gas (TDG), and Ambient Light. > > One of the planned science missions is for Gamma to do a submerged transect from the mouth of the Flathead river at the north of the lake to Big Arm Bay logging with the DS5 and capturing bottom samples along the path. Hank is in the process of adding the capability to Gamma to take these samples. A bathymetric map of the lake can be found at http://flatheadlakers.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/bathymap.pdf > > Dr. Josef Crepeau, Associate Prof. Mathematics, University of Montana has agreed to provide dive support with his 19ft Boston Whaler. The plan is for Josef to use his vessel to tender the R300 and FLBS?s 30 foot research vessel will be tendering Nekton Gamma. We have a number of psubbers that are tentatively involved: > > Cliff Redus > Rick Maxwell > Hank Pronk and wife > Jon Wallace > Doug Suhr Jr. > Doug Suhr Sr. > Alec Symth (Provisional depending on his son?s racing schedule) > David Colombo and wife > > Limited sleeping accommodation for some of the psub contingent has been provided at FLBS base station using their faculty cabins but these cabins now are fully committed. There are a number of hotels in Polson but be aware that reservation would need to be made early for these as they tend to fill up fast for the summer. We have a local contact, Masson Niblack, who lives in Polson working with us as well for local info. > > Along with the long submerged transect that Hank is going to make, we will also be doing a joint night dive to see the difference in the marine community between day and night. There are several wall dives that are also planned. As we get closer to the date, we will get a better picture of the planned dives. > > On Friday afternoon August 9th, FLBS is hosting an open house for the public and has asked Innerspace Science to have the subs available for 400-500 students. > > Flathead Lake is one of the largest clearest lakes in the US. The 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition should be a hoot! > Cliff > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 16 21:48:04 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2018 21:48:04 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gel coat nightmare In-Reply-To: <20181215152506.57FD46BA@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20181215152506.57FD46BA@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <74eedd9f-ed11-135b-95af-6657473412cc@ohiohills.com> A while ago I told about something called Styrospray.? It's a rigid material that seems to be applied with a brush.? It's used for making light things like signs but my application is for a Snark Sunflower (to replace the ABS sheath).? I've not yet tried it. It's from industrialpolymers.com Mike --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 16 22:56:19 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 03:56:19 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2019 Flathead Lake Expedtion In-Reply-To: <7355385D-2BD0-40E6-8B25-40FEBF1035FA@yahoo.com> References: <7355385D-2BD0-40E6-8B25-40FEBF1035FA@yahoo.com> Message-ID: As it happens, Flathead Lake MT is within a reasonable driving distance of me. I don't have a sub to contribute, but if you could use another body for surface, in-water, dive (rescue plan?) or maintenance support, that sounds like an interesting way to spend a few days. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Dec 16, 2018, 19:40, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Great stuff Cliff, > that's going to be one heck of a long journey! > Alan > > On 16/12/2018, at 4:50 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition >> >> Since David mentioned his goal in getting his boat ready for dive next year in Montana, I thought I would update the Psub community on the expedition. On August 5-9, 2019, the 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition is planned. This is a joint effort between [InnerSpace.Org](http://innerspace.org)https://www.innerspacescience.org/ and the Flathead Bio Station https://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs . FLBS is operated by the University of Montana. I am the point person for this Expedition from the Innerspace Science/PSub side and Jim Craft, https://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs/about-flbs/people/page-elements/flbs-people/people/jim-craft/ from the FLBS, UM science side. Tom Bansak, http://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs/about-flbs/people/page-elements/flbs-people/people/tom-bansak/ , the assistant director at FLBS, is also working closely with Jim Craft on the Expedition. Organizationally, this Expedition will be structured much like the 2018 Lake Tahoe Expedition. The base station for the dive is going to be the FHBS facility at Yellow Bay on the west side of the lake. At this time two psubs are committed to come. Hank Pronk is bringing Nekton Gamma and I am bringing the R300. If David is able to finish fabrication and testing by then, then he is welcome to bring SeaQuester. Jim Craft is working with his FLBS colleges to develop the science objectives which will primarily be completed with Nekton Gamma as she can take a passenger. Gamma will be fitted with an instrumentation package, the Hydrolab DS5 - Multiparameter Data Sonde https://www.ott.com/en-uk/products/water-quality-2/hydrolab-ds5-multiparameter-data-sonde-56/. FLBS has two of these data sondes but they may have one of these committed on an existing research project. If it is available, it will be mounted on the R300. These data sondes log Temperature, Conductivity, Depth, pH, Oxygen Reduction Potential (ORP), Dissolved Oxygen (LDO), Dissolved Oxygen (Clark Cell), Turbidity, Chlorophyll a, Blue-Green Algae, Rhodamine WT, Ammonium, Nitrate, Chloride, Total Dissolved Gas (TDG), and Ambient Light. >> >> One of the planned science missions is for Gamma to do a submerged transect from the mouth of the Flathead river at the north of the lake to Big Arm Bay logging with the DS5 and capturing bottom samples along the path. Hank is in the process of adding the capability to Gamma to take these samples. A bathymetric map of the lake can be found at http://flatheadlakers.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/bathymap.pdf >> >> Dr. Josef Crepeau, Associate Prof. Mathematics, University of Montana has agreed to provide dive support with his 19ft Boston Whaler. The plan is for Josef to use his vessel to tender the R300 and FLBS?s 30 foot research vessel will be tendering Nekton Gamma. We have a number of psubbers that are tentatively involved: >> >> Cliff Redus >> Rick Maxwell >> Hank Pronk and wife >> Jon Wallace >> Doug Suhr Jr. >> Doug Suhr Sr. >> Alec Symth (Provisional depending on his son?s racing schedule) >> David Colombo and wife >> >> Limited sleeping accommodation for some of the psub contingent has been provided at FLBS base station using their faculty cabins but these cabins now are fully committed. There are a number of hotels in Polson but be aware that reservation would need to be made early for these as they tend to fill up fast for the summer. We have a local contact, Masson Niblack, who lives in Polson working with us as well for local info. >> >> Along with the long submerged transect that Hank is going to make, we will also be doing a joint night dive to see the difference in the marine community between day and night. There are several wall dives that are also planned. As we get closer to the date, we will get a better picture of the planned dives. >> >> On Friday afternoon August 9th, FLBS is hosting an open house for the public and has asked Innerspace Science to have the subs available for 400-500 students. >> >> Flathead Lake is one of the largest clearest lakes in the US. The 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition should be a hoot! >> Cliff > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 17 07:36:41 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 12:36:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gel coat nightmare In-Reply-To: <74eedd9f-ed11-135b-95af-6657473412cc@ohiohills.com> References: <20181215152506.57FD46BA@m0117567.ppops.net> <74eedd9f-ed11-135b-95af-6657473412cc@ohiohills.com> Message-ID: <1700856333.816050.1545050201405@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,sorry to see your troubles, but I think you you have a bad chemical reaction rather than lay up thickness problem . ?I am having morning coffer with a life long friend ?that used to be in the hot tub business. ?He made moulds for a living. ?I will get the skinny from him for you.Hank On Sunday, December 16, 2018, 7:48:58 PM MST, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: A while ago I told about something called Styrospray.? It's a rigid material that seems to be applied with a brush.? It's used for making light things like signs but my application is for a Snark Sunflower (to replace the ABS sheath).? I've not yet tried it. It's from industrialpolymers.com Mike --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 17 09:33:34 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 07:33:34 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gel coat nightmare In-Reply-To: <1700856333.816050.1545050201405@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20181215152506.57FD46BA@m0117567.ppops.net> <74eedd9f-ed11-135b-95af-6657473412cc@ohiohills.com> <1700856333.816050.1545050201405@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3427A7DB-26E5-4461-AEA8-1E7B17101137@yahoo.ca> Brian. My friend thinks you put too much mold release spray on. He just puts a mist on Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 17, 2018, at 5:36 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Brian, > sorry to see your troubles, but I think you you have a bad chemical reaction rather than lay up thickness problem . I am having morning coffer with a life long friend that used to be in the hot tub business. He made moulds for a living. I will get the skinny from him for you. > Hank > > On Sunday, December 16, 2018, 7:48:58 PM MST, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > A while ago I told about something called Styrospray. It's a rigid > material that seems to be applied with a brush. It's used for making > light things like signs but my application is for a Snark Sunflower (to > replace the ABS sheath). I've not yet tried it. > > It's from industrialpolymers.com > > > Mike > > > > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 17 09:34:39 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 07:34:39 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gel coat nightmare In-Reply-To: <1700856333.816050.1545050201405@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20181215152506.57FD46BA@m0117567.ppops.net> <74eedd9f-ed11-135b-95af-6657473412cc@ohiohills.com> <1700856333.816050.1545050201405@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <71B9D4B9-E81D-4BE2-9D9D-71BE9A794654@yahoo.ca> Brian You need to wax 12 times Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 17, 2018, at 5:36 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Brian, > sorry to see your troubles, but I think you you have a bad chemical reaction rather than lay up thickness problem . I am having morning coffer with a life long friend that used to be in the hot tub business. He made moulds for a living. I will get the skinny from him for you. > Hank > > On Sunday, December 16, 2018, 7:48:58 PM MST, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > A while ago I told about something called Styrospray. It's a rigid > material that seems to be applied with a brush. It's used for making > light things like signs but my application is for a Snark Sunflower (to > replace the ABS sheath). I've not yet tried it. > > It's from industrialpolymers.com > > > Mike > > > > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 17 11:32:00 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 10:32:00 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2019 Flathead Lake Expedtion In-Reply-To: References: <7355385D-2BD0-40E6-8B25-40FEBF1035FA@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sean, we would love to have you on 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition. As you are a heavy duty technical diver, I think it would be good if you could tag with Josef Crepeau, josef.crepeau at umontana.edu who if heading up our dive support/rescue to coordinate with him. Josef is going to bring his Boston Whaler and has a a dive buddy and crew he is planning on bringing as well. Can you send me your email address and contact info to cliffordredus at sbcglobal.net so I can put in dive plan and recuse plan. I will also put you on the Expedition email list to get you in loop. I will send Josef a note to bring him up to speed on your attendance. Looking forward to seeing you again. I think the last time we met was in Vancouver on at a Psub convention. Best Regards Cliff On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 9:57 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > As it happens, Flathead Lake MT is within a reasonable driving distance of > me. I don't have a sub to contribute, but if you could use another body for > surface, in-water, dive (rescue plan?) or maintenance support, that sounds > like an interesting way to spend a few days. > > Sean > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Dec 16, 2018, 19:40, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Great stuff Cliff, > that's going to be one heck of a long journey! > Alan > > On 16/12/2018, at 4:50 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition > > Since David mentioned his goal in getting his boat ready for dive next > year in Montana, I thought I would update the Psub community on the > expedition. On August 5-9, 2019, the 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition is > planned. This is a joint effort between InnerSpace.Org > https://www.innerspacescience.org/ and the > Flathead Bio Station https://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs . FLBS is operated by > the University of Montana. I am the point person for this Expedition > from the Innerspace Science/PSub side and Jim Craft, > https://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs/about-flbs/people/page-elements/flbs-people/people/jim-craft/ > from the FLBS, UM science side. Tom Bansak, > http://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs/about-flbs/people/page-elements/flbs-people/people/tom-bansak/ > , the assistant director at FLBS, is also working closely with Jim Craft on > the Expedition. Organizationally, this Expedition will be structured > much like the 2018 Lake Tahoe Expedition. The base station for the dive > is going to be the FHBS facility at Yellow Bay on the west side of the lake. > At this time two psubs are committed to come. Hank Pronk is bringing > Nekton Gamma and I am bringing the R300. If David is able to finish > fabrication and testing by then, then he is welcome to bring SeaQuester. Jim > Craft is working with his FLBS colleges to develop the science objectives > which will primarily be completed with Nekton Gamma as she can take a > passenger. Gamma will be fitted with an instrumentation package, the > Hydrolab DS5 - Multiparameter Data Sonde > https://www.ott.com/en-uk/products/water-quality-2/hydrolab-ds5-multiparameter-data-sonde-56/ > . FLBS has two of these data sondes but they may have one of these > committed on an existing research project. If it is available, it will > be mounted on the R300. These data sondes log Temperature, Conductivity, > Depth, pH, Oxygen Reduction Potential (ORP), Dissolved Oxygen (LDO), > Dissolved Oxygen (Clark Cell), Turbidity, Chlorophyll a, Blue-Green Algae, > Rhodamine WT, Ammonium, Nitrate, Chloride, Total Dissolved Gas (TDG), and > Ambient Light. > > One of the planned science missions is for Gamma to do a submerged > transect from the mouth of the Flathead river at the north of the lake to > Big Arm Bay logging with the DS5 and capturing bottom samples along the > path. Hank is in the process of adding the capability to Gamma to take > these samples. A bathymetric map of the lake can be found at > http://flatheadlakers.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/bathymap.pdf > > Dr. Josef Crepeau, Associate Prof. Mathematics, University of Montana has > agreed to provide dive support with his 19ft Boston Whaler. The plan is for > Josef to use his vessel to tender the R300 and FLBS?s 30 foot research > vessel will be tendering Nekton Gamma. We have a number of psubbers that > are tentatively involved: > Cliff Redus > Rick Maxwell > Hank Pronk and wife > Jon Wallace > Doug Suhr Jr. > Doug Suhr Sr. > Alec Symth (Provisional depending on his son?s racing schedule) > David Colombo and wife > > Limited sleeping accommodation for some of the psub contingent has been > provided at FLBS base station using their faculty cabins but these cabins > now are fully committed. There are a number of hotels in Polson but be > aware that reservation would need to be made early for these as they tend > to fill up fast for the summer. We have a local contact, Masson Niblack, > who lives in Polson working with us as well for local info. > > Along with the long submerged transect that Hank is going to make, we will > also be doing a joint night dive to see the difference in the marine > community between day and night. There are several wall dives that are > also planned. As we get closer to the date, we will get a better picture > of the planned dives. > > On Friday afternoon August 9th, FLBS is hosting an open house for the > public and has asked Innerspace Science to have the subs available for > 400-500 students. > Flathead Lake is one of the largest clearest lakes in the US. The 2019 > Flathead Lake Expedition should be a hoot! > Cliff > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 17 12:36:32 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 11:36:32 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2019 Flathead Lake Expedtion In-Reply-To: <7355385D-2BD0-40E6-8B25-40FEBF1035FA@yahoo.com> References: <7355385D-2BD0-40E6-8B25-40FEBF1035FA@yahoo.com> Message-ID: 1,923 miles, Devine Texas to Yellow Bay in Montana, yes quite a tow. Having said that, Maxi and I towed the R-300 1,163 miles to Islamorada in 2013 and 2017 and 1,377 miles to Lake Tahoe this year. To me it all part of the adventure! Now if I could just justify putting her on a boat to New Zealand, that would be quite a trip. Best Regards and a ?Happy Christmas to you Alan. On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 8:41 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Great stuff Cliff, > that's going to be one heck of a long journey! > Alan > > On 16/12/2018, at 4:50 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition > > Since David mentioned his goal in getting his boat ready for dive next > year in Montana, I thought I would update the Psub community on the > expedition. On August 5-9, 2019, the 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition is > planned. This is a joint effort between InnerSpace.Org > https://www.innerspacescience.org/ and the > Flathead Bio Station https://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs . FLBS is operated by > the University of Montana. I am the point person for this Expedition > from the Innerspace Science/PSub side and Jim Craft, > https://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs/about-flbs/people/page-elements/flbs-people/people/jim-craft/ > from the FLBS, UM science side. Tom Bansak, > http://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs/about-flbs/people/page-elements/flbs-people/people/tom-bansak/ > , the assistant director at FLBS, is also working closely with Jim Craft on > the Expedition. Organizationally, this Expedition will be structured > much like the 2018 Lake Tahoe Expedition. The base station for the dive > is going to be the FHBS facility at Yellow Bay on the west side of the lake. > At this time two psubs are committed to come. Hank Pronk is bringing > Nekton Gamma and I am bringing the R300. If David is able to finish > fabrication and testing by then, then he is welcome to bring SeaQuester. Jim > Craft is working with his FLBS colleges to develop the science objectives > which will primarily be completed with Nekton Gamma as she can take a > passenger. Gamma will be fitted with an instrumentation package, the > Hydrolab DS5 - Multiparameter Data Sonde > https://www.ott.com/en-uk/products/water-quality-2/hydrolab-ds5-multiparameter-data-sonde-56/ > . FLBS has two of these data sondes but they may have one of these > committed on an existing research project. If it is available, it will > be mounted on the R300. These data sondes log Temperature, Conductivity, > Depth, pH, Oxygen Reduction Potential (ORP), Dissolved Oxygen (LDO), > Dissolved Oxygen (Clark Cell), Turbidity, Chlorophyll a, Blue-Green Algae, > Rhodamine WT, Ammonium, Nitrate, Chloride, Total Dissolved Gas (TDG), and > Ambient Light. > > One of the planned science missions is for Gamma to do a submerged > transect from the mouth of the Flathead river at the north of the lake to > Big Arm Bay logging with the DS5 and capturing bottom samples along the > path. Hank is in the process of adding the capability to Gamma to take > these samples. A bathymetric map of the lake can be found at > http://flatheadlakers.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/bathymap.pdf > > Dr. Josef Crepeau, Associate Prof. Mathematics, University of Montana has > agreed to provide dive support with his 19ft Boston Whaler. The plan is for > Josef to use his vessel to tender the R300 and FLBS?s 30 foot research > vessel will be tendering Nekton Gamma. We have a number of psubbers that > are tentatively involved: > Cliff Redus > Rick Maxwell > Hank Pronk and wife > Jon Wallace > Doug Suhr Jr. > Doug Suhr Sr. > Alec Symth (Provisional depending on his son?s racing schedule) > David Colombo and wife > > Limited sleeping accommodation for some of the psub contingent has been > provided at FLBS base station using their faculty cabins but these cabins > now are fully committed. There are a number of hotels in Polson but be > aware that reservation would need to be made early for these as they tend > to fill up fast for the summer. We have a local contact, Masson Niblack, > who lives in Polson working with us as well for local info. > > Along with the long submerged transect that Hank is going to make, we will > also be doing a joint night dive to see the difference in the marine > community between day and night. There are several wall dives that are > also planned. As we get closer to the date, we will get a better picture > of the planned dives. > > On Friday afternoon August 9th, FLBS is hosting an open house for the > public and has asked Innerspace Science to have the subs available for > 400-500 students. > Flathead Lake is one of the largest clearest lakes in the US. The 2019 > Flathead Lake Expedition should be a hoot! > Cliff > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 17 12:46:21 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 09:46:21 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gel coat nightmare Message-ID: <20181217094621.BD3203AC@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 17 18:36:53 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 23:36:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2019 Flathead Lake Expedtion In-Reply-To: References: <7355385D-2BD0-40E6-8B25-40FEBF1035FA@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <912338115.1189731.1545089813132@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,Make sure if you put R-300 on a boat to NZ there is room for Gamma!Hank On Monday, December 17, 2018, 11:36:51 AM MST, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: 1,923 miles, Devine Texas to Yellow Bay in Montana, yes quite a tow.? Having said that, Maxi and I towed the R-300 1,163 miles to Islamorada in 2013 and 2017 and 1,377 miles to Lake Tahoe this year.? To me it all part of the adventure!? ?Now if I could just justify putting her on a boat to New Zealand, that would be quite a trip. Best Regards and a ?Happy Christmas to you Alan. On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 8:41 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Great stuff Cliff,that's going to be one heck of a long journey!Alan On 16/12/2018, at 4:50 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition Since David mentioned his goal in getting his boat ready fordive next year in Montana, I thought I would update the Psub community on the expedition.? On August 5-9, 2019, the 2019 Flathead Lake Expeditionis planned.? This is a joint effort betweenInnerSpace.Org https://www.innerspacescience.org/and the Flathead Bio Station?https://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs .FLBS is operated by the University of Montana.?I am the point person for this Expedition from the InnerspaceScience/PSub side and Jim Craft, ?https://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs/about-flbs/people/page-elements/flbs-people/people/jim-craft/?from the FLBS, UM science side. TomBansak, http://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs/about-flbs/people/page-elements/flbs-people/people/tom-bansak/, the assistant director at FLBS, is also working closely with Jim Craft on theExpedition. ?Organizationally, this Expeditionwill be structured much like the 2018 Lake Tahoe Expedition.? The base station for the dive is going to bethe FHBS facility at Yellow Bay on the west side of the lake.? At this time two psubs are committed tocome.? Hank Pronk is bringing NektonGamma and I am bringing the R300.? IfDavid is able to finish fabrication and testing by then, then he is welcome to bringSeaQuester.? Jim Craft is working withhis FLBS colleges to develop the science objectives which will primarily becompleted with Nekton Gamma as she can take a passenger.? Gamma will be fitted with an instrumentationpackage, the Hydrolab DS5 - Multiparameter Data Sonde https://www.ott.com/en-uk/products/water-quality-2/hydrolab-ds5-multiparameter-data-sonde-56/.? FLBS has two of these data sondes but theymay have one of these committed on an existing research project.? If it is available, it will be mounted on theR300.? These data sondes log Temperature,Conductivity, Depth, pH, Oxygen Reduction Potential (ORP), Dissolved Oxygen(LDO), Dissolved Oxygen (Clark Cell), Turbidity, Chlorophyll a, Blue-GreenAlgae, Rhodamine WT, Ammonium, Nitrate, Chloride, Total Dissolved Gas (TDG), andAmbient Light. One of the planned science missions is for Gamma to do asubmerged transect from the mouth of the Flathead river at the north of thelake to Big Arm Bay logging with the DS5 and capturing bottom samples along thepath.? Hank is in the process of addingthe capability to Gamma to take these samples.?A bathymetric map of the lake?can be found?at http://flatheadlakers.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/bathymap.pdf Dr. Josef Crepeau, Associate Prof. Mathematics, University ofMontana has agreed to provide dive support with his 19ft Boston Whaler. Theplan is for Josef to use his vessel to tender the R300 and FLBS?s 30 footresearch vessel will be tendering Nekton Gamma.?We have a number of psubbers that are tentatively involved: Cliff RedusRick MaxwellHank Pronk and wifeJon WallaceDoug Suhr Jr.Doug Suhr Sr.Alec Symth (Provisional depending on his son?s racingschedule)David Colombo and wife Limited sleeping accommodation for some of the psub contingenthas been provided at FLBS base station using their faculty cabins but thesecabins now are fully committed.? Thereare a number of hotels in Polson but be aware that reservation would need to bemade early for these as they tend to fill up fast for the summer.? We have a local contact, Masson Niblack, who livesin Polson working with us as well for local info. Along with the long submerged transect that Hank is going tomake, we will also be doing a joint night dive to see the difference in themarine community between day and night.? Thereare several wall dives that are also planned.?As we get closer to the date, we will get a better picture of the planneddives. On Friday afternoon August 9th, FLBS is hostingan open house for the public and has asked?Innerspace Science?to have the subs availablefor 400-500 students. Flathead Lake is one of the largest clearest lakes in theUS.? The 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition shouldbe a hoot!Cliff ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 17 20:42:52 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 01:42:52 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2019 Flathead Lake Expedtion Message-ID: I'm in. My wife has family in Whitefish and Kalispell, MT and a good friend has a house on Flathead Lake just south of the launch site. I've fished on the lake and fly fished all over northwest Montana. Wife has a cousin who serves on the board of that station on the lake. So yes, Harold the K350 will find his way to Montana next August. Road trip. My bud on the lake has already extended his hospitality for a dinner at his place for all us sub people. Alec, want to make it a caravan and tow yours out there too? Brian. Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 17 21:10:59 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:10:59 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gel coat nightmare In-Reply-To: <20181215152506.57FD46BA@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20181215152506.57FD46BA@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: The cause of the wrinkling is the thin gel coat. If you think the gel coat is marginal in terms of thickness you can better your chances of getting away with it by applying a "hot" brew of resin when laminating... If you leave the gel coat to cure too long you will still be able to laminate over it the only problem is the long term adhesion and the possibility that there may have been contamination to the cured surface, always better to strip and do again.... Mike. On Sun, 16 Dec 2018, 9:25 a.m. Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > Hi All, > Fun and games with my gel coat project ! Thought I was > doing everything right but apparently not. After waxing my mold 4 times ( > 4 layers) then I applied the PVA mold release with a spray gun, that went > well, so far so good. Then time to spray the gel coat, that went well > also, though I probably did not spray a thick enough layer, but my big > boner of a mistake was letting the gel coat sit too long, apparently I was > suppose to apply the resin and fiberglass layers while the gel coat is > still tacky otherwise the gel coat material changes chemically over time > and crystallizes . Anyway the result is a big gooey mess, luckily I was > able to stop before getting too far along. Instead of the gel coat > adhering to the fiberglass it started breaking down and melting into the > resin and it got all crinkly. So now I'm going to to wait and let what > I've done set up so I can pull it off and start all over again ! > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 17 21:15:37 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:15:37 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gel coat nightmare In-Reply-To: <3427A7DB-26E5-4461-AEA8-1E7B17101137@yahoo.ca> References: <20181215152506.57FD46BA@m0117567.ppops.net> <74eedd9f-ed11-135b-95af-6657473412cc@ohiohills.com> <1700856333.816050.1545050201405@mail.yahoo.com> <3427A7DB-26E5-4461-AEA8-1E7B17101137@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: Too much mold release wax will only cause a problem called pre release... And the name suggests it shrinks away from the mold surface prematurely and looks completely different to the problem in the image, looking at the image it it definitely styrene attacking a insufficient gel coat film thickness... Mike On Tue, 18 Dec 2018, 12:35 a.m. hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > Brian. My friend thinks you put too much mold release spray on. He just > puts a mist on > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 17, 2018, at 5:36 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Brian, > sorry to see your troubles, but I think you you have a bad chemical > reaction rather than lay up thickness problem . I am having morning coffer > with a life long friend that used to be in the hot tub business. He made > moulds for a living. I will get the skinny from him for you. > Hank > > On Sunday, December 16, 2018, 7:48:58 PM MST, Michael Holt via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > A while ago I told about something called Styrospray. It's a rigid > material that seems to be applied with a brush. It's used for making > light things like signs but my application is for a Snark Sunflower (to > replace the ABS sheath). I've not yet tried it. > > It's from industrialpolymers.com > > > Mike > > > > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 17 21:30:39 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 18:30:39 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gel coat nightmare Message-ID: <20181217183039.BD2ECCCD@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 17 22:05:29 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 13:05:29 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gel coat nightmare In-Reply-To: <20181217183039.BD2ECCCD@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20181217183039.BD2ECCCD@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: No problem. Brushing is always a bit hit n miss, pays to apply 2 coats if brushing and second coat should go on as soon as it has gelled, if you miss that window it will attack the first layer as the laminate did... Ideal thickness when sprayed is 0.010 - 0.020 of an inch checked wet as the cured thickness is a little less... I've have over 35 years experience in the composites industry in aerospace, marine and transport so feel free to ask if you have any questions.... Mike. On Tue, 18 Dec 2018, 12:31 p.m. Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > Wow, thanks Mike ! The gel coat was extremely thin. When I did the > mold I used "tooling gel coat " and I painted it on and hence put it on > much thicker. Then when I did my part I sprayed it on , it goes on more > uniformly but apparently I did not do enough coats. And on top of that I > let it sit for two days. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gel coat nightmare > Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:15:37 +1000 > > Too much mold release wax will only cause a problem called pre release... > And the name suggests it shrinks away from the mold surface prematurely and > looks completely different to the problem in the image, looking at the > image it it definitely styrene attacking a insufficient gel coat film > thickness... > > Mike > > On Tue, 18 Dec 2018, 12:35 a.m. hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > Brian. My friend thinks you put too much mold release spray on. He just > puts a mist on > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 17, 2018, at 5:36 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Brian, > sorry to see your troubles, but I think you you have a bad chemical > reaction rather than lay up thickness problem . I am having morning coffer > with a life long friend that used to be in the hot tub business. He made > moulds for a living. I will get the skinny from him for you. > Hank > > On Sunday, December 16, 2018, 7:48:58 PM MST, Michael Holt via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > A while ago I told about something called Styrospray. It's a rigid > material that seems to be applied with a brush. It's used for making > light things like signs but my application is for a Snark Sunflower (to > replace the ABS sheath). I've not yet tried it. > > It's from industrialpolymers.com > > > Mike > > > > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 18 09:02:18 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 08:02:18 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2019 Flathead Lake Expedtion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Excellent. Brian, can you send me off list to cliffordredus at sbcglobal.net your contact info so I can get you in the planning loop? At his time we only have two tender vessels. Although Doug Shur mentioned that he and his dad may rent a boat on the lake. If so they might be available to tender Harold. After I get your contact info, I will send you a Emergency Plan form we need to get filled out on each Psub. Do you have VHF comms on the boat? Do you have underwater comms compatible with OTS gear? Best Regards On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 7:43 PM Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I'm in. My wife has family in Whitefish and Kalispell, MT and a good > friend has a house on Flathead Lake just south of the launch site. I've > fished on the lake and fly fished all over northwest Montana. > > Wife has a cousin who serves on the board of that station on the lake. So > yes, Harold the K350 will find his way to Montana next August. Road trip. > My bud on the lake has already extended his hospitality for a dinner at his > place for all us sub people. > > Alec, want to make it a caravan and tow yours out there too? > > Brian. > > Get Outlook for Android > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 18 14:15:20 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:15:20 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: Hi all. I am really struggling with where to mount my horizontal thrusters. The safest place for entanglement and impacts is within the cowling, but that is the worst place for performance. The best performance location is outside the body at the back and is the best place for balance. So it comes down to safety over performance. The sub does have a jettisoning occupant sphere Hank Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 18 14:31:39 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 14:31:39 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Prop guards with mesh coverings perhaps? Best, Alec > On Dec 18, 2018, at 2:15 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi all. I am really struggling with where to mount my horizontal thrusters. The safest place for entanglement and impacts is within the cowling, but that is the worst place for performance. The best performance location is outside the body at the back and is the best place for balance. So it comes down to safety over performance. The sub does have a jettisoning occupant sphere > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 18 15:16:02 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 09:16:02 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2019 Flathead Lake Expedtion In-Reply-To: References: <7355385D-2BD0-40E6-8B25-40FEBF1035FA@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6FAD2D16-C204-4E1F-8D4B-AB6AEA9EF819@yahoo.com> Cliff, thanks, it would be great if a film crew could do a documentary on this. Should be a great road trip. Wonder if Phil would want to bring an Exosuit & Deep Worker over! You won't need to bring R300 down to N.Z., I am sure we will have some good subs for you to dive some time in the future. Merry Christmas Alan > On 18/12/2018, at 6:36 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > 1,923 miles, Devine Texas to Yellow Bay in Montana, yes quite a tow. Having said that, Maxi and I towed the R-300 1,163 miles to Islamorada in 2013 and 2017 and 1,377 miles to Lake Tahoe this year. To me it all part of the adventure! Now if I could just justify putting her on a boat to New Zealand, that would be quite a trip. > > Best Regards and a ?Happy Christmas to you Alan. > >> On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 8:41 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Great stuff Cliff, >> that's going to be one heck of a long journey! >> Alan >> >>> On 16/12/2018, at 4:50 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition >>> >>> Since David mentioned his goal in getting his boat ready for dive next year in Montana, I thought I would update the Psub community on the expedition. On August 5-9, 2019, the 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition is planned. This is a joint effort between InnerSpace.Org https://www.innerspacescience.org/ and the Flathead Bio Station https://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs . FLBS is operated by the University of Montana. I am the point person for this Expedition from the Innerspace Science/PSub side and Jim Craft, https://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs/about-flbs/people/page-elements/flbs-people/people/jim-craft/ from the FLBS, UM science side. Tom Bansak, http://flbs.umt.edu/newflbs/about-flbs/people/page-elements/flbs-people/people/tom-bansak/ , the assistant director at FLBS, is also working closely with Jim Craft on the Expedition. Organizationally, this Expedition will be structured much like the 2018 Lake Tahoe Expedition. The base station for the dive is going to be the FHBS facility at Yellow Bay on the west side of the lake. At this time two psubs are committed to come. Hank Pronk is bringing Nekton Gamma and I am bringing the R300. If David is able to finish fabrication and testing by then, then he is welcome to bring SeaQuester. Jim Craft is working with his FLBS colleges to develop the science objectives which will primarily be completed with Nekton Gamma as she can take a passenger. Gamma will be fitted with an instrumentation package, the Hydrolab DS5 - Multiparameter Data Sonde https://www.ott.com/en-uk/products/water-quality-2/hydrolab-ds5-multiparameter-data-sonde-56/. FLBS has two of these data sondes but they may have one of these committed on an existing research project. If it is available, it will be mounted on the R300. These data sondes log Temperature, Conductivity, Depth, pH, Oxygen Reduction Potential (ORP), Dissolved Oxygen (LDO), Dissolved Oxygen (Clark Cell), Turbidity, Chlorophyll a, Blue-Green Algae, Rhodamine WT, Ammonium, Nitrate, Chloride, Total Dissolved Gas (TDG), and Ambient Light. >>> >>> One of the planned science missions is for Gamma to do a submerged transect from the mouth of the Flathead river at the north of the lake to Big Arm Bay logging with the DS5 and capturing bottom samples along the path. Hank is in the process of adding the capability to Gamma to take these samples. A bathymetric map of the lake can be found at http://flatheadlakers.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/bathymap.pdf >>> >>> Dr. Josef Crepeau, Associate Prof. Mathematics, University of Montana has agreed to provide dive support with his 19ft Boston Whaler. The plan is for Josef to use his vessel to tender the R300 and FLBS?s 30 foot research vessel will be tendering Nekton Gamma. We have a number of psubbers that are tentatively involved: >>> >>> Cliff Redus >>> Rick Maxwell >>> Hank Pronk and wife >>> Jon Wallace >>> Doug Suhr Jr. >>> Doug Suhr Sr. >>> Alec Symth (Provisional depending on his son?s racing schedule) >>> David Colombo and wife >>> >>> Limited sleeping accommodation for some of the psub contingent has been provided at FLBS base station using their faculty cabins but these cabins now are fully committed. There are a number of hotels in Polson but be aware that reservation would need to be made early for these as they tend to fill up fast for the summer. We have a local contact, Masson Niblack, who lives in Polson working with us as well for local info. >>> >>> Along with the long submerged transect that Hank is going to make, we will also be doing a joint night dive to see the difference in the marine community between day and night. There are several wall dives that are also planned. As we get closer to the date, we will get a better picture of the planned dives. >>> >>> On Friday afternoon August 9th, FLBS is hosting an open house for the public and has asked Innerspace Science to have the subs available for 400-500 students. >>> >>> Flathead Lake is one of the largest clearest lakes in the US. The 2019 Flathead Lake Expedition should be a hoot! >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 18 16:00:35 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 21:00:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <92054230.1710937.1545166835130@mail.yahoo.com> Yes, I have the first motor on today with a very robust guard. ?I am going with performance, ?I hate having poor reverse.Hank On Tuesday, December 18, 2018, 12:31:58 PM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Prop guards with mesh coverings perhaps? Best, Alec > On Dec 18, 2018, at 2:15 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi all.? I am really struggling with where to mount my horizontal thrusters. The safest place for entanglement and impacts is within the cowling, but that is the worst place for performance. The best performance location is outside the body at the back and is the best place for balance. So it comes down to safety over performance. The sub does have a jettisoning occupant sphere > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 19 17:15:34 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 22:15:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <5EEFB751-13E8-43ED-AC7B-9C74459F91B1@yahoo.ca> References: <5EEFB751-13E8-43ED-AC7B-9C74459F91B1@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <241002154.418391.1545257734694@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,Here is a picture of my new air powered MBT vent valves. ?I was inspired by Alec's valves. ?The blue part is bolted to the outside of the MBT with the air cylinder inside the MBT . ?When air pressure is applied the air cylinder pushes itself away from the blue vent disk. ?Very simple to make and cheap.Hank ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: hank pronk To: hank pronk Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018, 3:10:08 PM MSTSubject: Sent from my iPhone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0250.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3116860 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 19 17:16:10 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 22:16:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1144697901.404952.1545257770670@mail.yahoo.com> top viewHank ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: hank pronk To: hank pronk Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018, 3:09:06 PM MSTSubject: Sent from my iPhone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0251.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2910026 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 19 17:17:48 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:17:48 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Open view Message-ID: <9A0422B6-FE3C-465F-B705-DB466F9DBF35@yahoo.ca> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0248.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2780852 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 19 17:17:00 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:17:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view Message-ID: <0F0E5BB1-B717-410D-8F68-88115330456C@yahoo.ca> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0249.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3127191 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 19 17:17:48 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:17:48 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Open view Message-ID: <9A0422B6-FE3C-465F-B705-DB466F9DBF35@yahoo.ca> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0248.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2780852 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 19 17:17:00 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:17:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view Message-ID: <0F0E5BB1-B717-410D-8F68-88115330456C@yahoo.ca> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0249.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3127191 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 19 17:17:00 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:17:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view Message-ID: <0F0E5BB1-B717-410D-8F68-88115330456C@yahoo.ca> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0249.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3127191 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 19 17:17:00 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:17:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view Message-ID: <0F0E5BB1-B717-410D-8F68-88115330456C@yahoo.ca> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0249.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3127191 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 19 17:17:00 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:17:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view Message-ID: <0F0E5BB1-B717-410D-8F68-88115330456C@yahoo.ca> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0249.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3127191 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 19 19:52:28 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:52:28 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view Message-ID: <20181219165228.C397934C@m0117458.ppops.net> Hank, Is that normally closed with a spring? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:17:00 -0700 Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 19 19:56:16 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 00:56:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: <20181219165228.C397934C@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20181219165228.C397934C@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: <984866339.465492.1545267376560@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,Yes, there are two springs that keep it closedHank On Wednesday, December 19, 2018, 5:52:42 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? Is that normally closed with a spring? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:17:00 -0700 Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 19 20:03:05 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 18:03:05 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Top view Message-ID: <808960A2-DA09-4649-9711-77BAC6F0DC47@yahoo.ca> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0251.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2910026 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 19 17:17:00 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:17:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view Message-ID: <0F0E5BB1-B717-410D-8F68-88115330456C@yahoo.ca> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0249.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3127191 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 19 20:02:22 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 18:02:22 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view Message-ID: <14AAAE0B-5E9E-459F-8B0F-C1126AB203DC@yahoo.ca> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0249.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3127191 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 19 21:02:03 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 15:02:03 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <241002154.418391.1545257734694@mail.yahoo.com> References: <5EEFB751-13E8-43ED-AC7B-9C74459F91B1@yahoo.ca> <241002154.418391.1545257734694@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1A3D9C89-8EEE-40C9-82DC-82EEF79C1EA2@yahoo.com> Looks good Hank. One thought was that it might be difficult to clean the valve seat & see any muck that may have gotten in it having it set up like that. I guess you will know in time. Cheers Alan > On 20/12/2018, at 11:15 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > Here is a picture of my new air powered MBT vent valves. I was inspired by Alec's valves. The blue part is bolted to the outside of the MBT with the air cylinder inside the MBT . When air pressure is applied the air cylinder pushes itself away from the blue vent disk. Very simple to make and cheap. > Hank > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > From: hank pronk > To: hank pronk > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018, 3:10:08 PM MST > Subject: > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 19 21:04:10 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 15:04:10 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <241002154.418391.1545257734694@mail.yahoo.com> References: <5EEFB751-13E8-43ED-AC7B-9C74459F91B1@yahoo.ca> <241002154.418391.1545257734694@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <78ED6BC8-DB04-482F-8A89-DE173BD7BC92@yahoo.com> Hank, is that your family on the table? Alan > On 20/12/2018, at 11:15 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > Here is a picture of my new air powered MBT vent valves. I was inspired by Alec's valves. The blue part is bolted to the outside of the MBT with the air cylinder inside the MBT . When air pressure is applied the air cylinder pushes itself away from the blue vent disk. Very simple to make and cheap. > Hank > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > From: hank pronk > To: hank pronk > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018, 3:10:08 PM MST > Subject: > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 19 22:43:18 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:43:18 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: ZnhXgbHUzdz2tZnhYgM7ln References: <5EEFB751-13E8-43ED-AC7B-9C74459F91B1@yahoo.ca> <241002154.418391.1545257734694@mail.yahoo.com> ZnhXgbHUzdz2tZnhYgM7ln Message-ID: <000001d49816$26ae3300$740a9900$@telus.net> Sure, Alan, we know only one subber who builds submarines in his kitchen. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 6:04 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Hank, is that your family on the table? Alan On 20/12/2018, at 11:15 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi All, Here is a picture of my new air powered MBT vent valves. I was inspired by Alec's valves. The blue part is bolted to the outside of the MBT with the air cylinder inside the MBT . When air pressure is applied the air cylinder pushes itself away from the blue vent disk. Very simple to make and cheap. Hank ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: hank pronk > To: hank pronk > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018, 3:10:08 PM MST Subject: Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 20 00:02:54 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 18:02:54 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <000001d49816$26ae3300$740a9900$@telus.net> References: <5EEFB751-13E8-43ED-AC7B-9C74459F91B1@yahoo.ca> <241002154.418391.1545257734694@mail.yahoo.com> <000001d49816$26ae3300$740a9900$@telus.net> Message-ID: <11F91182-81AE-4C07-A908-8D0F412D3C90@yahoo.com> Tim, true, I am at it as we speak! Below is my thruster project. At the moment I have connected a bluetooth module to the Vesc motor controller & are trying to get a stack of motor & esc data from the esc to an app on my android phone, but are struggling! When I am successful I can put the rig on my inflatable & spend hours testing it out while trolling a fishing lure. Alan > On 20/12/2018, at 4:43 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Sure, Alan, we know only one subber who builds submarines in his kitchen. > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 6:04 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > > Hank, > is that your family on the table? > Alan > > On 20/12/2018, at 11:15 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > Here is a picture of my new air powered MBT vent valves. I was inspired by Alec's valves. The blue part is bolted to the outside of the MBT with the air cylinder inside the MBT . When air pressure is applied the air cylinder pushes itself away from the blue vent disk. Very simple to make and cheap. > Hank > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > From: hank pronk > To: hank pronk > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018, 3:10:08 PM MST > Subject: > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 466875 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 20 00:30:22 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 21:30:22 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: ZqUjgRXP0BdpLZqUlgfVAm References: <5EEFB751-13E8-43ED-AC7B-9C74459F91B1@yahoo.ca> <241002154.418391.1545257734694@mail.yahoo.com> <000001d49816$26ae3300$740a9900$@telus.net> ZqUjgRXP0BdpLZqUlgfVAm Message-ID: <002601d49825$1b43ff40$51cbfdc0$@telus.net> I suggest that for the lure you go with the cockroach again. I trust that you are having a good summer. Wish we were there. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 9:03 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Tim, true, I am at it as we speak! Below is my thruster project. At the moment I have connected a bluetooth module to the Vesc motor controller & are trying to get a stack of motor & esc data from the esc to an app on my android phone, but are struggling! When I am successful I can put the rig on my inflatable & spend hours testing it out while trolling a fishing lure. Alan On 20/12/2018, at 4:43 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Sure, Alan, we know only one subber who builds submarines in his kitchen. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 6:04 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Hank, is that your family on the table? Alan On 20/12/2018, at 11:15 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi All, Here is a picture of my new air powered MBT vent valves. I was inspired by Alec's valves. The blue part is bolted to the outside of the MBT with the air cylinder inside the MBT . When air pressure is applied the air cylinder pushes itself away from the blue vent disk. Very simple to make and cheap. Hank ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: hank pronk > To: hank pronk > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018, 3:10:08 PM MST Subject: Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 466875 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 19 20:03:05 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 18:03:05 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Top view Message-ID: <808960A2-DA09-4649-9711-77BAC6F0DC47@yahoo.ca> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0251.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2910026 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 20 07:09:37 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 07:09:37 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: <14AAAE0B-5E9E-459F-8B0F-C1126AB203DC@yahoo.ca> References: <14AAAE0B-5E9E-459F-8B0F-C1126AB203DC@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: Now that is clever, I never thought of moving the whole valve instead of just a lid, and it sure simplifies things! Are those actuators NC though, or can they be made so? Just so you don?t need HP in order to stay on the surface. Thanks, Alec > On Dec 19, 2018, at 8:02 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 19 17:17:00 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:17:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view Message-ID: <0F0E5BB1-B717-410D-8F68-88115330456C@yahoo.ca> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0249.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3127191 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 19 17:17:00 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:17:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view Message-ID: <0F0E5BB1-B717-410D-8F68-88115330456C@yahoo.ca> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0249.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3127191 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 19 20:02:22 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 18:02:22 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view Message-ID: <14AAAE0B-5E9E-459F-8B0F-C1126AB203DC@yahoo.ca> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0249.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3127191 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 20 07:23:09 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 12:23:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: References: <14AAAE0B-5E9E-459F-8B0F-C1126AB203DC@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <61252896.661614.1545308589340@mail.yahoo.com> Alec, thanks for the inspiration. ?Watching your sub sink is just friggin amazing. ?The air cylinders are double acting and will be spring loaded to stay closed. ?The air pressure will open them with a permanent air leak via a tiny drilled hole like you have.Hank On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 5:09:56 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Now that is clever, I never thought of moving the whole valve instead of just a lid, and it sure simplifies things! Are those actuators NC though, or can they be made so? Just so you don?t need HP in order to stay on the surface. Thanks, Alec > On Dec 19, 2018, at 8:02 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 20 07:29:23 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 12:29:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <78ED6BC8-DB04-482F-8A89-DE173BD7BC92@yahoo.com> References: <5EEFB751-13E8-43ED-AC7B-9C74459F91B1@yahoo.ca> <241002154.418391.1545257734694@mail.yahoo.com> <78ED6BC8-DB04-482F-8A89-DE173BD7BC92@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1504353120.670994.1545308963592@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, those are my Christmas buddies.Hank On Wednesday, December 19, 2018, 7:04:35 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,is that your family on the table?Alan On 20/12/2018, at 11:15 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Here is a picture of my new air powered MBT vent valves. ?I was inspired by Alec's valves. ?The blue part is bolted to the outside of the MBT with the air cylinder inside the MBT . ?When air pressure is applied the air cylinder pushes itself away from the blue vent disk. ?Very simple to make and cheap.Hank ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: hank pronk To: hank pronk Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018, 3:10:08 PM MSTSubject: Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 19 17:17:00 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:17:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view Message-ID: <0F0E5BB1-B717-410D-8F68-88115330456C@yahoo.ca> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0249.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3127191 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 19 20:02:22 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 18:02:22 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view Message-ID: <14AAAE0B-5E9E-459F-8B0F-C1126AB203DC@yahoo.ca> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0249.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3127191 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 20 10:06:36 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 10:06:36 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: <61252896.661614.1545308589340@mail.yahoo.com> References: <14AAAE0B-5E9E-459F-8B0F-C1126AB203DC@yahoo.ca> <61252896.661614.1545308589340@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I should mention that although Shackleton's valves were originally to use bleed-driven closing, I ended up canceling that feature and instead plumbed them for manual actuation in both directions. I made the change because, although they have a spring to make them NC, I liked the idea of clamping with air for a more positive seal, and I didn't like the idea that a very small orifice becoming fouled could lead to a valve staying open. But the initial dives convinced me that bi-directional control is a good idea for a completely different reason. If you use the bleed approach to close the valves, they close slowly. When diving a K boat, and probably most subs, you'll often find either the bow or the stern is settling a little faster and getting you out of trim. The remedy is to temporarily shut one MBT valve while the other remains open. In Shackleton's recent tests it was the exact same process, just faster. I found myself closing a valve for a couple of seconds and then reopening it once back on level trim. It was very easy to do because the valves had immediate response times, but latency would have made it much harder to pilot. I love the simplicity of your design - wish I hadn't spent all that time building valves from scratch! : ) Alec On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:24 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, thanks for the inspiration. Watching your sub sink is just friggin > amazing. The air cylinders are double acting and will be spring loaded to > stay closed. The air pressure will open them with a permanent air leak via > a tiny drilled hole like you have. > Hank > > On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 5:09:56 AM MST, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Now that is clever, I never thought of moving the whole valve instead of > just a lid, and it sure simplifies things! Are those actuators NC though, > or can they be made so? Just so you don?t need HP in order to stay on the > surface. > > Thanks, > Alec > > > > On Dec 19, 2018, at 8:02 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 20 12:53:07 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 17:53:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: References: <14AAAE0B-5E9E-459F-8B0F-C1126AB203DC@yahoo.ca> <61252896.661614.1545308589340@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2020507330.816311.1545328387207@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,I was just about to ask you about the bleed system. ?I like your idea of operating the valve in both directions but I still think the bleed holes are important. ?Without the bleed port, the water pressure can overwhelm the seal. ?The pressure on the back side of the piston becomes compensated. ? I am just not sure where the best place for the bleed hole is. ?Should it be at the cylinder or down stream at the hull penetration?Anyone?Hank On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 8:07:11 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I should mention that although Shackleton's valves were originally to use bleed-driven closing, I ended up canceling that feature and instead plumbed them for manual actuation in both directions. I made the change because, although they have a spring to make them NC, I liked the idea of clamping with air for a more positive seal, and I didn't like the idea that a very small orifice becoming fouled could lead to a valve staying open. But the initial dives convinced me that bi-directional control is a good idea for a completely different reason. If you use the bleed approach to close the valves, they close slowly. When diving a K boat, and probably most subs, you'll often find either the bow or the stern is settling a little faster and getting you out of trim. The remedy is to temporarily shut one MBT valve while the other remains open. In Shackleton's recent tests it was the exact same process, just faster. I found myself closing a valve for a couple of seconds and then reopening it once back on level trim. It was very easy to do because the valves had immediate response times, but latency would have made it much harder to pilot.?? I love the simplicity of your design? - wish I hadn't spent all that time building valves from scratch! : ) Alec On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:24 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, thanks for the inspiration.? Watching your sub sink is just friggin amazing.? The air cylinders are double acting and will be spring loaded to stay closed.? The air pressure will open them with a permanent air leak via a tiny drilled hole like you have.Hank On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 5:09:56 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Now that is clever, I never thought of moving the whole valve instead of just a lid, and it sure simplifies things! Are those actuators NC though, or can they be made so? Just so you don?t need HP in order to stay on the surface. Thanks, Alec > On Dec 19, 2018, at 8:02 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 20 12:57:11 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 12:57:11 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: <2020507330.816311.1545328387207@mail.yahoo.com> References: <14AAAE0B-5E9E-459F-8B0F-C1126AB203DC@yahoo.ca> <61252896.661614.1545308589340@mail.yahoo.com> <2020507330.816311.1545328387207@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm driving them with air from a first stage, so it's always about 150psi over ambient. The air supply is not shut off when the valves have been actuated, so the seal should always see those 150 regardless of depth. On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 12:54 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, > I was just about to ask you about the bleed system. I like your idea of > operating the valve in both directions but I still think the bleed holes > are important. Without the bleed port, the water pressure can overwhelm > the seal. The pressure on the back side of the piston becomes compensated. > I am just not sure where the best place for the bleed hole is. Should it > be at the cylinder or down stream at the hull penetration? > Anyone? > Hank > > On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 8:07:11 AM MST, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, I should mention that although Shackleton's valves were originally > to use bleed-driven closing, I ended up canceling that feature and instead > plumbed them for manual actuation in both directions. I made the change > because, although they have a spring to make them NC, I liked the idea of > clamping with air for a more positive seal, and I didn't like the idea that > a very small orifice becoming fouled could lead to a valve staying open. > But the initial dives convinced me that bi-directional control is a good > idea for a completely different reason. If you use the bleed approach to > close the valves, they close slowly. When diving a K boat, and probably > most subs, you'll often find either the bow or the stern is settling a > little faster and getting you out of trim. The remedy is to temporarily > shut one MBT valve while the other remains open. In Shackleton's recent > tests it was the exact same process, just faster. I found myself closing a > valve for a couple of seconds and then reopening it once back on level > trim. It was very easy to do because the valves had immediate response > times, but latency would have made it much harder to pilot. > > I love the simplicity of your design - wish I hadn't spent all that time > building valves from scratch! > > : ) > > Alec > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:24 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alec, thanks for the inspiration. Watching your sub sink is just friggin > amazing. The air cylinders are double acting and will be spring loaded to > stay closed. The air pressure will open them with a permanent air leak via > a tiny drilled hole like you have. > Hank > > On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 5:09:56 AM MST, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Now that is clever, I never thought of moving the whole valve instead of > just a lid, and it sure simplifies things! Are those actuators NC though, > or can they be made so? Just so you don?t need HP in order to stay on the > surface. > > Thanks, > Alec > > > > On Dec 19, 2018, at 8:02 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 20 13:01:16 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 18:01:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: References: <14AAAE0B-5E9E-459F-8B0F-C1126AB203DC@yahoo.ca> <61252896.661614.1545308589340@mail.yahoo.com> <2020507330.816311.1545328387207@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <846443479.818185.1545328876689@mail.yahoo.com> Oh, I see. ?Is there a depth limit for the first stage regulator?Hank On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 10:57:39 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I'm driving them with air from a first stage, so it's always about 150psi over ambient. The air supply is not shut off when the valves have been actuated, so the seal should always see those 150 regardless of depth. On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 12:54 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,I was just about to ask you about the bleed system.? I like your idea of operating the valve in both directions but I still think the bleed holes are important.? Without the bleed port, the water pressure can overwhelm the seal.? The pressure on the back side of the piston becomes compensated. ? I am just not sure where the best place for the bleed hole is.? Should it be at the cylinder or down stream at the hull penetration?Anyone?Hank On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 8:07:11 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I should mention that although Shackleton's valves were originally to use bleed-driven closing, I ended up canceling that feature and instead plumbed them for manual actuation in both directions. I made the change because, although they have a spring to make them NC, I liked the idea of clamping with air for a more positive seal, and I didn't like the idea that a very small orifice becoming fouled could lead to a valve staying open. But the initial dives convinced me that bi-directional control is a good idea for a completely different reason. If you use the bleed approach to close the valves, they close slowly. When diving a K boat, and probably most subs, you'll often find either the bow or the stern is settling a little faster and getting you out of trim. The remedy is to temporarily shut one MBT valve while the other remains open. In Shackleton's recent tests it was the exact same process, just faster. I found myself closing a valve for a couple of seconds and then reopening it once back on level trim. It was very easy to do because the valves had immediate response times, but latency would have made it much harder to pilot.?? I love the simplicity of your design? - wish I hadn't spent all that time building valves from scratch! : ) Alec On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:24 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, thanks for the inspiration.? Watching your sub sink is just friggin amazing.? The air cylinders are double acting and will be spring loaded to stay closed.? The air pressure will open them with a permanent air leak via a tiny drilled hole like you have.Hank On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 5:09:56 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Now that is clever, I never thought of moving the whole valve instead of just a lid, and it sure simplifies things! Are those actuators NC though, or can they be made so? Just so you don?t need HP in order to stay on the surface. Thanks, Alec > On Dec 19, 2018, at 8:02 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 20 13:06:41 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 18:06:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: References: <14AAAE0B-5E9E-459F-8B0F-C1126AB203DC@yahoo.ca> <61252896.661614.1545308589340@mail.yahoo.com> <2020507330.816311.1545328387207@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <76072221.836711.1545329201677@mail.yahoo.com> Alec, your system does not provide for increased pressure on the opposite side of the piston. ?Or am I missing some thing? ?If you are pressurizing the the bottom side to ambient then at depth you're relying on the shaft seal to hold 450 psi approximately if it is a double acting cylinder.Hank? On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 10:57:39 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I'm driving them with air from a first stage, so it's always about 150psi over ambient. The air supply is not shut off when the valves have been actuated, so the seal should always see those 150 regardless of depth. On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 12:54 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,I was just about to ask you about the bleed system.? I like your idea of operating the valve in both directions but I still think the bleed holes are important.? Without the bleed port, the water pressure can overwhelm the seal.? The pressure on the back side of the piston becomes compensated. ? I am just not sure where the best place for the bleed hole is.? Should it be at the cylinder or down stream at the hull penetration?Anyone?Hank On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 8:07:11 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I should mention that although Shackleton's valves were originally to use bleed-driven closing, I ended up canceling that feature and instead plumbed them for manual actuation in both directions. I made the change because, although they have a spring to make them NC, I liked the idea of clamping with air for a more positive seal, and I didn't like the idea that a very small orifice becoming fouled could lead to a valve staying open. But the initial dives convinced me that bi-directional control is a good idea for a completely different reason. If you use the bleed approach to close the valves, they close slowly. When diving a K boat, and probably most subs, you'll often find either the bow or the stern is settling a little faster and getting you out of trim. The remedy is to temporarily shut one MBT valve while the other remains open. In Shackleton's recent tests it was the exact same process, just faster. I found myself closing a valve for a couple of seconds and then reopening it once back on level trim. It was very easy to do because the valves had immediate response times, but latency would have made it much harder to pilot.?? I love the simplicity of your design? - wish I hadn't spent all that time building valves from scratch! : ) Alec On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:24 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, thanks for the inspiration.? Watching your sub sink is just friggin amazing.? The air cylinders are double acting and will be spring loaded to stay closed.? The air pressure will open them with a permanent air leak via a tiny drilled hole like you have.Hank On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 5:09:56 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Now that is clever, I never thought of moving the whole valve instead of just a lid, and it sure simplifies things! Are those actuators NC though, or can they be made so? Just so you don?t need HP in order to stay on the surface. Thanks, Alec > On Dec 19, 2018, at 8:02 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 20 13:37:28 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 07:37:28 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <002601d49825$1b43ff40$51cbfdc0$@telus.net> References: <5EEFB751-13E8-43ED-AC7B-9C74459F91B1@yahoo.ca> <241002154.418391.1545257734694@mail.yahoo.com> <000001d49816$26ae3300$740a9900$@telus.net> <002601d49825$1b43ff40$51cbfdc0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1C6694D3-4D28-4815-BBA7-A42FB085E876@yahoo.com> Tim, unsettled weather at the moment, but I've managed to get a few swims in. Part of the reason I am testing the motor on an inflatable is because of competition for the swimming pool my test rig was set up in. Alan > On 20/12/2018, at 6:30 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I suggest that for the lure you go with the cockroach again. > I trust that you are having a good summer. Wish we were there. > Tim > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 9:03 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > > Tim, > true, I am at it as we speak! > Below is my thruster project. At the moment I have connected a bluetooth module to the Vesc motor controller & are trying to get a stack of motor & esc data from the esc to an app on my android phone, but are struggling! When I am successful I can put the rig on my inflatable & spend hours testing it out while trolling a fishing lure. > Alan > > > On 20/12/2018, at 4:43 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Sure, Alan, we know only one subber who builds submarines in his kitchen. > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 6:04 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > > Hank, > is that your family on the table? > Alan > > On 20/12/2018, at 11:15 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > Here is a picture of my new air powered MBT vent valves. I was inspired by Alec's valves. The blue part is bolted to the outside of the MBT with the air cylinder inside the MBT . When air pressure is applied the air cylinder pushes itself away from the blue vent disk. Very simple to make and cheap. > Hank > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > From: hank pronk > To: hank pronk > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018, 3:10:08 PM MST > Subject: > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 20 13:43:19 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 13:43:19 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: <76072221.836711.1545329201677@mail.yahoo.com> References: <14AAAE0B-5E9E-459F-8B0F-C1126AB203DC@yahoo.ca> <61252896.661614.1545308589340@mail.yahoo.com> <2020507330.816311.1545328387207@mail.yahoo.com> <76072221.836711.1545329201677@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: When one side is pressurized, the other is open to ambient pressure. I use a crossover valve that has four ports to accomplish that. What I've also done is lead the exhaust tubing from that valve to the lowest point on the boat, so even though its open to the sea, salt water would not rise all the way to wet the valve components. And no, there is no limit I'm aware of to how deep a 1st stage can be taken. Sorry for the super short reply - I have to run as I've got the after-school program today! Best, Alec On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 1:07 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, your system does not provide for increased pressure on the opposite > side of the piston. Or am I missing some thing? If you are pressurizing > the the bottom side to ambient then at depth you're relying on the shaft > seal to hold 450 psi approximately if it is a double acting cylinder. > Hank > > On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 10:57:39 AM MST, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I'm driving them with air from a first stage, so it's always about 150psi > over ambient. The air supply is not shut off when the valves have been > actuated, so the seal should always see those 150 regardless of depth. > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 12:54 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alec, > I was just about to ask you about the bleed system. I like your idea of > operating the valve in both directions but I still think the bleed holes > are important. Without the bleed port, the water pressure can overwhelm > the seal. The pressure on the back side of the piston becomes compensated. > I am just not sure where the best place for the bleed hole is. Should it > be at the cylinder or down stream at the hull penetration? > Anyone? > Hank > > On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 8:07:11 AM MST, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, I should mention that although Shackleton's valves were originally > to use bleed-driven closing, I ended up canceling that feature and instead > plumbed them for manual actuation in both directions. I made the change > because, although they have a spring to make them NC, I liked the idea of > clamping with air for a more positive seal, and I didn't like the idea that > a very small orifice becoming fouled could lead to a valve staying open. > But the initial dives convinced me that bi-directional control is a good > idea for a completely different reason. If you use the bleed approach to > close the valves, they close slowly. When diving a K boat, and probably > most subs, you'll often find either the bow or the stern is settling a > little faster and getting you out of trim. The remedy is to temporarily > shut one MBT valve while the other remains open. In Shackleton's recent > tests it was the exact same process, just faster. I found myself closing a > valve for a couple of seconds and then reopening it once back on level > trim. It was very easy to do because the valves had immediate response > times, but latency would have made it much harder to pilot. > > I love the simplicity of your design - wish I hadn't spent all that time > building valves from scratch! > > : ) > > Alec > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:24 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alec, thanks for the inspiration. Watching your sub sink is just friggin > amazing. The air cylinders are double acting and will be spring loaded to > stay closed. The air pressure will open them with a permanent air leak via > a tiny drilled hole like you have. > Hank > > On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 5:09:56 AM MST, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Now that is clever, I never thought of moving the whole valve instead of > just a lid, and it sure simplifies things! Are those actuators NC though, > or can they be made so? Just so you don?t need HP in order to stay on the > surface. > > Thanks, > Alec > > > > On Dec 19, 2018, at 8:02 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 20 13:54:56 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 07:54:56 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: References: <14AAAE0B-5E9E-459F-8B0F-C1126AB203DC@yahoo.ca> <61252896.661614.1545308589340@mail.yahoo.com> <2020507330.816311.1545328387207@mail.yahoo.com> <76072221.836711.1545329201677@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <39B6F358-6495-4C33-99CD-6E2CA13F262F@yahoo.com> Hank, Karl Stanley uses 1st stage regulators to compensate his motors but there is a limit! The supplying tank if it is scuba is filled to around 3000psi. So this system would work till just short of 6000ft. If you only had 1000psi in the tank it wouldn't work after 2000ft. But you probably wouldn't want to open your ballast valves at that depth. Alan > On 21/12/2018, at 7:43 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > When one side is pressurized, the other is open to ambient pressure. I use a crossover valve that has four ports to accomplish that. What I've also done is lead the exhaust tubing from that valve to the lowest point on the boat, so even though its open to the sea, salt water would not rise all the way to wet the valve components. And no, there is no limit I'm aware of to how deep a 1st stage can be taken. > > Sorry for the super short reply - I have to run as I've got the after-school program today! > > Best, > Alec > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 1:07 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alec, your system does not provide for increased pressure on the opposite side of the piston. Or am I missing some thing? If you are pressurizing the the bottom side to ambient then at depth you're relying on the shaft seal to hold 450 psi approximately if it is a double acting cylinder. >> Hank >> >> On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 10:57:39 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> I'm driving them with air from a first stage, so it's always about 150psi over ambient. The air supply is not shut off when the valves have been actuated, so the seal should always see those 150 regardless of depth. >> >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 12:54 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alec, >> I was just about to ask you about the bleed system. I like your idea of operating the valve in both directions but I still think the bleed holes are important. Without the bleed port, the water pressure can overwhelm the seal. The pressure on the back side of the piston becomes compensated. I am just not sure where the best place for the bleed hole is. Should it be at the cylinder or down stream at the hull penetration? >> Anyone? >> Hank >> >> On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 8:07:11 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, I should mention that although Shackleton's valves were originally to use bleed-driven closing, I ended up canceling that feature and instead plumbed them for manual actuation in both directions. I made the change because, although they have a spring to make them NC, I liked the idea of clamping with air for a more positive seal, and I didn't like the idea that a very small orifice becoming fouled could lead to a valve staying open. But the initial dives convinced me that bi-directional control is a good idea for a completely different reason. If you use the bleed approach to close the valves, they close slowly. When diving a K boat, and probably most subs, you'll often find either the bow or the stern is settling a little faster and getting you out of trim. The remedy is to temporarily shut one MBT valve while the other remains open. In Shackleton's recent tests it was the exact same process, just faster. I found myself closing a valve for a couple of seconds and then reopening it once back on level trim. It was very easy to do because the valves had immediate response times, but latency would have made it much harder to pilot. >> >> I love the simplicity of your design - wish I hadn't spent all that time building valves from scratch! >> >> : ) >> >> Alec >> >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:24 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alec, thanks for the inspiration. Watching your sub sink is just friggin amazing. The air cylinders are double acting and will be spring loaded to stay closed. The air pressure will open them with a permanent air leak via a tiny drilled hole like you have. >> Hank >> >> On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 5:09:56 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Now that is clever, I never thought of moving the whole valve instead of just a lid, and it sure simplifies things! Are those actuators NC though, or can they be made so? Just so you don?t need HP in order to stay on the surface. >> >> Thanks, >> Alec >> >> >> > On Dec 19, 2018, at 8:02 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Sent from my iPhone >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 20 13:54:56 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 07:54:56 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: References: <14AAAE0B-5E9E-459F-8B0F-C1126AB203DC@yahoo.ca> <61252896.661614.1545308589340@mail.yahoo.com> <2020507330.816311.1545328387207@mail.yahoo.com> <76072221.836711.1545329201677@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <39B6F358-6495-4C33-99CD-6E2CA13F262F@yahoo.com> Hank, Karl Stanley uses 1st stage regulators to compensate his motors but there is a limit! The supplying tank if it is scuba is filled to around 3000psi. So this system would work till just short of 6000ft. If you only had 1000psi in the tank it wouldn't work after 2000ft. But you probably wouldn't want to open your ballast valves at that depth. Alan > On 21/12/2018, at 7:43 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > When one side is pressurized, the other is open to ambient pressure. I use a crossover valve that has four ports to accomplish that. What I've also done is lead the exhaust tubing from that valve to the lowest point on the boat, so even though its open to the sea, salt water would not rise all the way to wet the valve components. And no, there is no limit I'm aware of to how deep a 1st stage can be taken. > > Sorry for the super short reply - I have to run as I've got the after-school program today! > > Best, > Alec > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 1:07 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alec, your system does not provide for increased pressure on the opposite side of the piston. Or am I missing some thing? If you are pressurizing the the bottom side to ambient then at depth you're relying on the shaft seal to hold 450 psi approximately if it is a double acting cylinder. >> Hank >> >> On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 10:57:39 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> I'm driving them with air from a first stage, so it's always about 150psi over ambient. The air supply is not shut off when the valves have been actuated, so the seal should always see those 150 regardless of depth. >> >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 12:54 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alec, >> I was just about to ask you about the bleed system. I like your idea of operating the valve in both directions but I still think the bleed holes are important. Without the bleed port, the water pressure can overwhelm the seal. The pressure on the back side of the piston becomes compensated. I am just not sure where the best place for the bleed hole is. Should it be at the cylinder or down stream at the hull penetration? >> Anyone? >> Hank >> >> On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 8:07:11 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, I should mention that although Shackleton's valves were originally to use bleed-driven closing, I ended up canceling that feature and instead plumbed them for manual actuation in both directions. I made the change because, although they have a spring to make them NC, I liked the idea of clamping with air for a more positive seal, and I didn't like the idea that a very small orifice becoming fouled could lead to a valve staying open. But the initial dives convinced me that bi-directional control is a good idea for a completely different reason. If you use the bleed approach to close the valves, they close slowly. When diving a K boat, and probably most subs, you'll often find either the bow or the stern is settling a little faster and getting you out of trim. The remedy is to temporarily shut one MBT valve while the other remains open. In Shackleton's recent tests it was the exact same process, just faster. I found myself closing a valve for a couple of seconds and then reopening it once back on level trim. It was very easy to do because the valves had immediate response times, but latency would have made it much harder to pilot. >> >> I love the simplicity of your design - wish I hadn't spent all that time building valves from scratch! >> >> : ) >> >> Alec >> >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:24 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alec, thanks for the inspiration. Watching your sub sink is just friggin amazing. The air cylinders are double acting and will be spring loaded to stay closed. The air pressure will open them with a permanent air leak via a tiny drilled hole like you have. >> Hank >> >> On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 5:09:56 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Now that is clever, I never thought of moving the whole valve instead of just a lid, and it sure simplifies things! Are those actuators NC though, or can they be made so? Just so you don?t need HP in order to stay on the surface. >> >> Thanks, >> Alec >> >> >> > On Dec 19, 2018, at 8:02 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Sent from my iPhone >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 20 13:55:58 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 10:55:58 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view Message-ID: <20181220105558.C397B35F@m0117566.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 20 14:09:15 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 19:09:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: <20181220105558.C397B35F@m0117566.ppops.net> References: <20181220105558.C397B35F@m0117566.ppops.net> Message-ID: <970711958.854543.1545332955621@mail.yahoo.com> Brian, the holes in the disk are for the air to escape.Hank On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 11:56:14 AM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: It looks like there are holes in the disk. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 18:06:41 +0000 (UTC) Alec, your system does not provide for increased pressure on the opposite side of the piston. ?Or am I missing some thing? ?If you are pressurizing the the bottom side to ambient then at depth you're relying on the shaft seal to hold 450 psi approximately if it is a double acting cylinder.Hank? On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 10:57:39 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I'm driving them with air from a first stage, so it's always about 150psi over ambient. The air supply is not shut off when the valves have been actuated, so the seal should always see those 150 regardless of depth. On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 12:54 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,I was just about to ask you about the bleed system.? I like your idea of operating the valve in both directions but I still think the bleed holes are important.? Without the bleed port, the water pressure can overwhelm the seal.? The pressure on the back side of the piston becomes compensated. ? I am just not sure where the best place for the bleed hole is.? Should it be at the cylinder or down stream at the hull penetration?Anyone?Hank On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 8:07:11 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I should mention that although Shackleton's valves were originally to use bleed-driven closing, I ended up canceling that feature and instead plumbed them for manual actuation in both directions. I made the change because, although they have a spring to make them NC, I liked the idea of clamping with air for a more positive seal, and I didn't like the idea that a very small orifice becoming fouled could lead to a valve staying open. But the initial dives convinced me that bi-directional control is a good idea for a completely different reason. If you use the bleed approach to close the valves, they close slowly. When diving a K boat, and probably most subs, you'll often find either the bow or the stern is settling a little faster and getting you out of trim. The remedy is to temporarily shut one MBT valve while the other remains open. In Shackleton's recent tests it was the exact same process, just faster. I found myself closing a valve for a couple of seconds and then reopening it once back on level trim. It was very easy to do because the valves had immediate response times, but latency would have made it much harder to pilot.?? I love the simplicity of your design? - wish I hadn't spent all that time building valves from scratch! : ) Alec On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:24 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, thanks for the inspiration.? Watching your sub sink is just friggin amazing.? The air cylinders are double acting and will be spring loaded to stay closed.? The air pressure will open them with a permanent air leak via a tiny drilled hole like you have.Hank On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 5:09:56 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Now that is clever, I never thought of moving the whole valve instead of just a lid, and it sure simplifies things! Are those actuators NC though, or can they be made so? Just so you don?t need HP in order to stay on the surface. Thanks, Alec > On Dec 19, 2018, at 8:02 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 20 15:08:57 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 12:08:57 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view Message-ID: <20181220120857.C3978831@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 20 15:40:02 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 13:40:02 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: <20181220120857.C3978831@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20181220120857.C3978831@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: <0180B464-C0C0-477F-B665-3ED20E1A915B@yahoo.ca> Brian. The black part raises to seal it off. It is the opposite of Alec?s where his valve has the top raise. Hank Sent from my iPhon > On Dec 20, 2018, at 1:08 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > How does it seal then? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view > Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 19:09:15 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, the holes in the disk are for the air to escape. > Hank > > On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 11:56:14 AM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > It looks like there are holes in the disk. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view > Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 18:06:41 +0000 (UTC) > > Alec, your system does not provide for increased pressure on the opposite side of the piston. Or am I missing some thing? If you are pressurizing the the bottom side to ambient then at depth you're relying on the shaft seal to hold 450 psi approximately if it is a double acting cylinder. > Hank > > On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 10:57:39 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I'm driving them with air from a first stage, so it's always about 150psi over ambient. The air supply is not shut off when the valves have been actuated, so the seal should always see those 150 regardless of depth. > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 12:54 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Alec, > I was just about to ask you about the bleed system. I like your idea of operating the valve in both directions but I still think the bleed holes are important. Without the bleed port, the water pressure can overwhelm the seal. The pressure on the back side of the piston becomes compensated. I am just not sure where the best place for the bleed hole is. Should it be at the cylinder or down stream at the hull penetration? > Anyone? > Hank > > On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 8:07:11 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, I should mention that although Shackleton's valves were originally to use bleed-driven closing, I ended up canceling that feature and instead plumbed them for manual actuation in both directions. I made the change because, although they have a spring to make them NC, I liked the idea of clamping with air for a more positive seal, and I didn't like the idea that a very small orifice becoming fouled could lead to a valve staying open. But the initial dives convinced me that bi-directional control is a good idea for a completely different reason. If you use the bleed approach to close the valves, they close slowly. When diving a K boat, and probably most subs, you'll often find either the bow or the stern is settling a little faster and getting you out of trim. The remedy is to temporarily shut one MBT valve while the other remains open. In Shackleton's recent tests it was the exact same process, just faster. I found myself closing a valve for a couple of seconds and then reopening it once back on level trim. It was very easy to do because the valves had immediate response times, but latency would have made it much harder to pilot. > > I love the simplicity of your design - wish I hadn't spent all that time building valves from scratch! > > : ) > > Alec > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:24 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Alec, thanks for the inspiration. Watching your sub sink is just friggin amazing. The air cylinders are double acting and will be spring loaded to stay closed. The air pressure will open them with a permanent air leak via a tiny drilled hole like you have. > Hank > > On Thursday, December 20, 2018, 5:09:56 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Now that is clever, I never thought of moving the whole valve instead of just a lid, and it sure simplifies things! Are those actuators NC though, or can they be made so? Just so you don?t need HP in order to stay on the surface. > > Thanks, > Alec > > > > On Dec 19, 2018, at 8:02 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 21 10:53:21 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 07:53:21 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor update Message-ID: Hi Guys, I'm off today to a number of welding shops for quotes now that the pressure hull has been fit up and tacked together. My wife is requiring any shop that is doing that welding also do weld xray analysis. Just curious who else has done this on their vessel and what was your experience and what advice would you give me. Attached are images of the rear hp air tank and thruster rack, and the forward camera rack. David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 291d0e49.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 34608 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 291d0e47.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 35922 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 21 12:20:42 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 10:20:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David. I am looking forward to hearing what you experience with the X Ray work. All I can say is that here in B.C. I can get out to my shop to do my occupant sphere for 600 dollars. Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 21, 2018, at 8:53 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Guys, I'm off today to a number of welding shops for quotes now that the pressure hull has been fit up and tacked together. My wife is requiring any shop that is doing that welding also do weld xray analysis. Just curious who else has done this on their vessel and what was your experience and what advice would you give me. > Attached are images of the rear hp air tank and thruster rack, and the forward camera rack. > > David > > <291d0e49.jpg> > <291d0e47.jpg> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 21 13:15:05 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 11:15:05 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <69453B57-7798-4ECD-9F7E-75A65C53AA91@yahoo.ca> I meant to say that I can get a X Ray guy out to my shop for 600 dollars Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 21, 2018, at 10:20 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > David. I am looking forward to hearing what you experience with the X Ray work. All I can say is that here in B.C. I can get out to my shop to do my occupant sphere for 600 dollars. > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 21, 2018, at 8:53 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi Guys, I'm off today to a number of welding shops for quotes now that the pressure hull has been fit up and tacked together. My wife is requiring any shop that is doing that welding also do weld xray analysis. Just curious who else has done this on their vessel and what was your experience and what advice would you give me. >> Attached are images of the rear hp air tank and thruster rack, and the forward camera rack. >> >> David >> >> <291d0e49.jpg> >> <291d0e47.jpg> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 21 14:48:24 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 08:48:24 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject)Thruster Mount In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hank, was thinking you could be extravagant & go with 2 lots of thrusters. Have one lot inside the cowling for submerged use & the other pair at the back for surface or mid water & shallow use. So you get your economy & safety. It would also give you redundancy; as with our tractor steering, if one horizontal thruster or motor controller goes down you go round in circles. Also you would have nearly double the power if you needed it. I am putting 4 horizontal thrusters on my current build. Alan > On 19/12/2018, at 8:15 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi all. I am really struggling with where to mount my horizontal thrusters. The safest place for entanglement and impacts is within the cowling, but that is the worst place for performance. The best performance location is outside the body at the back and is the best place for balance. So it comes down to safety over performance. The sub does have a jettisoning occupant sphere > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 21 17:56:50 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 22:56:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <667676734.1467005.1545433010649@mail.yahoo.com> Hello fellow sub nerds. ?After do some total destruction testing of my prototype vent valve - I have decided to replace the plastic top with an aluminum disk. ? Also I had to pressurize the air cylinder until it exploded before the piston seal would leak. ?I was hoping it had a weaker seal so that the cylinder would be self protecting from water pressure. ?The test shows that a compensation system needs to be added to protect the low pressure side of the piston. ?No problem - I will mount a second small air cylinder in the air line to act a compensator. ?I now have three valves built and ready to install.Hank ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: hank pronk To: hank pronk Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018, 3:49:20 PM MSTSubject: Sent from my iPhone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0253.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3576055 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 21 18:21:04 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 23:21:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: <0180B464-C0C0-477F-B665-3ED20E1A915B@yahoo.ca> References: <20181220120857.C3978831@m0117568.ppops.net> <0180B464-C0C0-477F-B665-3ED20E1A915B@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <1433128988.8880521.1545434464482@mail.yahoo.com> Just curious, why pneumatic?? There's a lot of plumbing involved, no?? Is there no reasonable solenoid alternative?? Manual alternative such as attaching a long rod, one end in the sub the other end to a gear in the mushroom housing, such that you can turn it from inside the cabin? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 21 18:40:13 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 16:40:13 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: <1433128988.8880521.1545434464482@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20181220120857.C3978831@m0117568.ppops.net> <0180B464-C0C0-477F-B665-3ED20E1A915B@yahoo.ca> <1433128988.8880521.1545434464482@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I chose air because it works out to be rust resistant. Solenoids should be in oil filled housings. Solenoids are also expensive and slow. The plumbing in my case is extremely simple because I am not using both directions of the cylinder. I would prefer a reach rod but since I have spent time and money on a pressure test I am hesitant to drill the hull and weld. I originally planned on solenoids but seeing Alec?s sub sink inspired me to go pneumatic Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 21, 2018, at 4:21 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Just curious, why pneumatic? There's a lot of plumbing involved, no? Is there no reasonable solenoid alternative? Manual alternative such as attaching a long rod, one end in the sub the other end to a gear in the mushroom housing, such that you can turn it from inside the cabin? > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 21 20:22:03 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 20:22:03 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <667676734.1467005.1545433010649@mail.yahoo.com> References: <667676734.1467005.1545433010649@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E6ADBC1-92D2-421E-B834-68634E560D80@gmail.com> Now that looks really presentable! But I?m not understanding the issue with the low pressure side. Why would that need protecting, is it not open to the sea? Thanks, Alec > On Dec 21, 2018, at 5:56 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hello fellow sub nerds. After do some total destruction testing of my prototype vent valve - I have decided to replace the plastic top with an aluminum disk. Also I had to pressurize the air cylinder until it exploded before the piston seal would leak. I was hoping it had a weaker seal so that the cylinder would be self protecting from water pressure. The test shows that a compensation system needs to be added to protect the low pressure side of the piston. No problem - I will mount a second small air cylinder in the air line to act a compensator. I now have three valves built and ready to install. > Hank > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > From: hank pronk > To: hank pronk > Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018, 3:49:20 PM MST > Subject: > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 21 20:53:58 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 14:53:58 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: <1433128988.8880521.1545434464482@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20181220120857.C3978831@m0117568.ppops.net> <0180B464-C0C0-477F-B665-3ED20E1A915B@yahoo.ca> <1433128988.8880521.1545434464482@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2E0A47C3-254B-48DB-964C-FA3F6CDF4E86@yahoo.com> Jon, I have bought a couple of solenoids 48V & 24V (not solenoid valves) that I intend to experiment with. The idea being that I coat the wiring, housing & plunger in resin & use it to directly actuate the ballast valve. I bought the two below to get a rough idea of what gauge wire to use, how large, what size plunger etc. There is a limit as to how long you can operate them for due to heat, but a ballast valve isn't open for long. Alan > On 22/12/2018, at 12:21 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Just curious, why pneumatic? There's a lot of plumbing involved, no? Is there no reasonable solenoid alternative? Manual alternative such as attaching a long rod, one end in the sub the other end to a gear in the mushroom housing, such that you can turn it from inside the cabin? > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 428203 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 21 20:55:49 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 01:55:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3E6ADBC1-92D2-421E-B834-68634E560D80@gmail.com> References: <667676734.1467005.1545433010649@mail.yahoo.com> <3E6ADBC1-92D2-421E-B834-68634E560D80@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1550414031.1509142.1545443749358@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,Thank you, I am pretty pleased with it. ?I am concerned that the water pressure may be too much for the thin SS wall of the cylinder. ?There is a very small air space below the piston that would be at atmosphere, as well as the air feed line. ?Originally I was thinking about a bleed port and that would solve the problem. ?I am not liking that idea. ?Then I thought the seal would let water go by but testing shows it won't.The solution is a compensator.Hank On Friday, December 21, 2018, 6:22:22 PM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Now that looks really presentable! But I?m not understanding the issue with the low pressure side. Why would that need protecting, is it not open to the sea? Thanks,Alec On Dec 21, 2018, at 5:56 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hello fellow sub nerds. ?After do some total destruction testing of my prototype vent valve - I have decided to replace the plastic top with an aluminum disk. ? Also I had to pressurize the air cylinder until it exploded before the piston seal would leak. ?I was hoping it had a weaker seal so that the cylinder would be self protecting from water pressure. ?The test shows that a compensation system needs to be added to protect the low pressure side of the piston. ?No problem - I will mount a second small air cylinder in the air line to act a compensator. ?I now have three valves built and ready to install.Hank ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: hank pronk To: hank pronk Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018, 3:49:20 PM MSTSubject: Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 21 21:04:24 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 02:04:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1550414031.1509142.1545443749358@mail.yahoo.com> References: <667676734.1467005.1545433010649@mail.yahoo.com> <3E6ADBC1-92D2-421E-B834-68634E560D80@gmail.com> <1550414031.1509142.1545443749358@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1031435613.1513050.1545444264805@mail.yahoo.com> Alec, ?I should maybe just put one of the new valves in my pressure chamber with a plug in the low pressure side port and run it up to 4000 feet and see what happens. ?I might be over thinking this.Hank On Friday, December 21, 2018, 6:56:09 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,Thank you, I am pretty pleased with it. ?I am concerned that the water pressure may be too much for the thin SS wall of the cylinder. ?There is a very small air space below the piston that would be at atmosphere, as well as the air feed line. ?Originally I was thinking about a bleed port and that would solve the problem. ?I am not liking that idea. ?Then I thought the seal would let water go by but testing shows it won't.The solution is a compensator.Hank On Friday, December 21, 2018, 6:22:22 PM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Now that looks really presentable! But I?m not understanding the issue with the low pressure side. Why would that need protecting, is it not open to the sea? Thanks,Alec On Dec 21, 2018, at 5:56 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hello fellow sub nerds. ?After do some total destruction testing of my prototype vent valve - I have decided to replace the plastic top with an aluminum disk. ? Also I had to pressurize the air cylinder until it exploded before the piston seal would leak. ?I was hoping it had a weaker seal so that the cylinder would be self protecting from water pressure. ?The test shows that a compensation system needs to be added to protect the low pressure side of the piston. ?No problem - I will mount a second small air cylinder in the air line to act a compensator. ?I now have three valves built and ready to install.Hank ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: hank pronk To: hank pronk Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018, 3:49:20 PM MSTSubject: Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 21 23:14:38 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 18:14:38 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: <2E0A47C3-254B-48DB-964C-FA3F6CDF4E86@yahoo.com> References: <20181220120857.C3978831@m0117568.ppops.net> <0180B464-C0C0-477F-B665-3ED20E1A915B@yahoo.ca> <1433128988.8880521.1545434464482@mail.yahoo.com> <2E0A47C3-254B-48DB-964C-FA3F6CDF4E86@yahoo.com> Message-ID: You guys got me thinking about these solenoid's but for a different purpose. I fabricated a cable/pulley system for opening and closing my VBT flood valve as it is under the floor boards and not in a convenient location on a K-350. Do you Solenoid guys happen to know about how much pressure a plunger can exert? That might be a great way to rotate the valve 90 degrees easily. Rick On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 3:55 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Jon, > I have bought a couple of solenoids 48V & 24V (not solenoid valves) that I > intend to experiment with. The idea being that I coat the wiring, housing & > plunger in resin & use it to directly actuate the ballast valve. > I bought the two below to get a rough idea of what gauge wire to use, how > large, what size plunger etc. > There is a limit as to how long you can operate them for due to heat, but a > ballast valve isn't open for long. > Alan > [image: image1.JPG] > > On 22/12/2018, at 12:21 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Just curious, why pneumatic? There's a lot of plumbing involved, no? Is > there no reasonable solenoid alternative? Manual alternative such as > attaching a long rod, one end in the sub the other end to a gear in the > mushroom housing, such that you can turn it from inside the cabin? > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 428203 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 22 00:00:36 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 18:00:36 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: References: <20181220120857.C3978831@m0117568.ppops.net> <0180B464-C0C0-477F-B665-3ED20E1A915B@yahoo.ca> <1433128988.8880521.1545434464482@mail.yahoo.com> <2E0A47C3-254B-48DB-964C-FA3F6CDF4E86@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1B4F3EF6-17E3-4776-8FB8-A15C978CD7C5@yahoo.com> Rick, the round solenoid in the picture I sent is 24V & has a 10mm stroke. At the start of the stroke it exerts 3kg force & at the end 1.5kg. With the 48V version (square one) you can't pull it apart once it closes with just 12V. The problem is they only work in one direction, so you are relying on spring pressure for return. In your case where you are closing a valve with a lever the return may be a problem. You could possibly use two solenoids to operate one valve. There are solenoid valves but they could corrode if seeing salt water. If you go with a solenoid valve be careful as most use system pressure to aid their opening. The ones that don't ( forget the terms) are generally 24V rather than 12V. A better way might be a small linear actuator. Alan > On 22/12/2018, at 5:14 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > You guys got me thinking about these solenoid's but for a different purpose. I fabricated a cable/pulley system for opening and closing my VBT flood valve as it is under the floor boards and not in a convenient location on a K-350. Do you Solenoid guys happen to know about how much pressure a plunger can exert? That might be a great way to rotate the valve 90 degrees easily. > Rick > >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 3:55 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Jon, >> I have bought a couple of solenoids 48V & 24V (not solenoid valves) that I >> intend to experiment with. The idea being that I coat the wiring, housing & >> plunger in resin & use it to directly actuate the ballast valve. >> I bought the two below to get a rough idea of what gauge wire to use, how >> large, what size plunger etc. >> There is a limit as to how long you can operate them for due to heat, but a >> ballast valve isn't open for long. >> Alan >> >> >>> On 22/12/2018, at 12:21 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Just curious, why pneumatic? There's a lot of plumbing involved, no? Is there no reasonable solenoid alternative? Manual alternative such as attaching a long rod, one end in the sub the other end to a gear in the mushroom housing, such that you can turn it from inside the cabin? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 22 02:03:17 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 23:03:17 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor update Message-ID: Hi guys, well I got some disappointing news today. I was trying to convince my fiberglass fabricator to give me a few hours use of their cnc machine, knowing that they were extremely busy. Turns out they will be tied up for the next two years building a particular project. So looks like I will be building a plug mold myself. Good thing I had my 3d model cut cnc plywd rib sections every 12 inches last year and are hanging in the shop. Tomorrow I will be building a flat work table to begin setting the stations and starting the boat building process. David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2018-12-21-23-00-30.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 303372 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 22 02:53:12 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 20:53:12 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5B6A67F1-297E-47C7-B3A8-6136CFF7DE7A@yahoo.com> David, I built my ballast tanks so that they fitted snuggly against my hull. I did this by putting vaseline (I think) on the hull & then plastic food wrap over this, then laid up on to the food wrap. You would think I would have got a perfect match doing this but due to shrinkage, warpage, whatever I didn't. So warning, warning... It may pay to seek out another professional if you aren't 100% confident. I know you'll be wanting a perfect finish! Cheers Alan > On 22/12/2018, at 8:03 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi guys, well I got some disappointing news today. I was trying to convince my fiberglass fabricator to give me a few hours use of their cnc machine, knowing that they were extremely busy. Turns out they will be tied up for the next two years building a particular project. So looks like I will be building a plug mold myself. Good thing I had my 3d model cut cnc plywd rib sections every 12 inches last year and are hanging in the shop. Tomorrow I will be building a flat work table to begin setting the stations and starting the boat building process. > > David > <2018-12-21-23-00-30.jpg> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 22 09:14:32 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 09:14:32 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor update In-Reply-To: <5B6A67F1-297E-47C7-B3A8-6136CFF7DE7A@yahoo.com> References: <5B6A67F1-297E-47C7-B3A8-6136CFF7DE7A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: I second that. I enjoy fabricating things, but fiberglass is an itchy smelly pain that refuses to reward effort with beauty. To retain my sanity I rationalize that my Soviet-style fiberglass pieces save me a lot of aggravation when they come into contact with rocks and docks, which inevitably happens every single time out. Best, Alec On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 2:54 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, > I built my ballast tanks so that they fitted snuggly against my hull. > I did this by putting vaseline (I think) on the hull & then plastic food > wrap > over this, then laid up on to the food wrap. You would think I would have > got a perfect match doing this but due to shrinkage, warpage, whatever > I didn't. So warning, warning... It may pay to seek out another > professional > if you aren't 100% confident. I know you'll be wanting a perfect finish! > Cheers Alan > > > > On 22/12/2018, at 8:03 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Hi guys, well I got some disappointing news today. I was trying to > convince my fiberglass fabricator to give me a few hours use of their cnc > machine, knowing that they were extremely busy. Turns out they will be tied > up for the next two years building a particular project. So looks like I > will be building a plug mold myself. Good thing I had my 3d model cut cnc > plywd rib sections every 12 inches last year and are hanging in the shop. > Tomorrow I will be building a flat work table to begin setting the stations > and starting the boat building process. > > > > David > > <2018-12-21-23-00-30.jpg> > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 22 10:07:29 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 15:07:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: References: <20181220120857.C3978831@m0117568.ppops.net> <0180B464-C0C0-477F-B665-3ED20E1A915B@yahoo.ca> <1433128988.8880521.1545434464482@mail.yahoo.com> <2E0A47C3-254B-48DB-964C-FA3F6CDF4E86@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1540603960.9064087.1545491249682@mail.yahoo.com> Rick, consider conversion of a cheap rechargeable screwdriver.? I've been experimenting with Black & Decker Li2000 which is low voltage (3.6vdc), low rpm (180), has a lot of torque, and is reversable.? At $15 they are pretty much expendable and easily replaceable.?? From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view You guys got me thinking about these solenoid's but for a different purpose. I fabricated a cable/pulley system for opening and closing my VBT flood valve as it is under the floor boards and not in a convenient location on a K-350. Do you Solenoid guys happen to know about how much pressure a plunger can exert? That might be a great way to rotate the valve 90 degrees easily.Rick? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 22 10:20:13 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 15:20:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: <2E0A47C3-254B-48DB-964C-FA3F6CDF4E86@yahoo.com> References: <20181220120857.C3978831@m0117568.ppops.net> <0180B464-C0C0-477F-B665-3ED20E1A915B@yahoo.ca> <1433128988.8880521.1545434464482@mail.yahoo.com> <2E0A47C3-254B-48DB-964C-FA3F6CDF4E86@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1750194430.9079364.1545492013442@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, I investigated the solenoid route as well and didn't find a lot of choices that I thought would work well.? I am looking at electric motor instead.? The biggest issue with electric is the possibility of the valve being left in open position due to motor burnout or some other electric failure.?? Jon From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 8:56 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view Jon,I have bought a couple of solenoids 48V & 24V (not solenoid valves) that I?intend to experiment with. The idea being that I coat the wiring, housing &plunger in resin & use it to directly actuate the ballast valve.I bought the two below to get a rough idea of what gauge wire to use, howlarge, what size plunger etc.There is a limit as to how long you can operate them for due to heat, but aballast valve isn't open for long.Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 22 10:22:02 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 07:22:02 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: <1540603960.9064087.1545491249682@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20181220120857.C3978831@m0117568.ppops.net> <0180B464-C0C0-477F-B665-3ED20E1A915B@yahoo.ca> <1433128988.8880521.1545434464482@mail.yahoo.com> <2E0A47C3-254B-48DB-964C-FA3F6CDF4E86@yahoo.com> <1540603960.9064087.1545491249682@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jon, i hadn't thought about those before. Would you use that drill motor for a drop weight system or stay with a manual system based on your testing? David On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 7:08 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, consider conversion of a cheap rechargeable screwdriver. I've been > experimenting with Black & Decker Li2000 which is low voltage (3.6vdc), low > rpm (180), has a lot of torque, and is reversable. At $15 they are pretty > much expendable and easily replaceable. > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, December 21, 2018 11:17 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view > > You guys got me thinking about these solenoid's but for a different > purpose. I fabricated a cable/pulley system for opening and closing my VBT > flood valve as it is under the floor boards and not in a convenient > location on a K-350. Do you Solenoid guys happen to know about how much > pressure a plunger can exert? That might be a great way to rotate the valve > 90 degrees easily. > Rick > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 22 10:34:41 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 07:34:41 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor update In-Reply-To: <5B6A67F1-297E-47C7-B3A8-6136CFF7DE7A@yahoo.com> References: <5B6A67F1-297E-47C7-B3A8-6136CFF7DE7A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan, Alec, thanks for the advice. I worked a number of years ago with this manufacture doing layup when we where building fiberglass underground work environments for the oil industry that I had designed. So I have just enough experience to be dangerous. I just didn't want to go thru the usual - plug- mold- and part process. I'm still going to move forward with rib station system as I can use it for fit up of plumbing and wire looms, while looking for another cnc shop to cut foam and the hull is at the welders. David On Fri, Dec 21, 2018, 11:54 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, > I built my ballast tanks so that they fitted snuggly against my hull. > I did this by putting vaseline (I think) on the hull & then plastic food > wrap > over this, then laid up on to the food wrap. You would think I would have > got a perfect match doing this but due to shrinkage, warpage, whatever > I didn't. So warning, warning... It may pay to seek out another > professional > if you aren't 100% confident. I know you'll be wanting a perfect finish! > Cheers Alan > > > > On 22/12/2018, at 8:03 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Hi guys, well I got some disappointing news today. I was trying to > convince my fiberglass fabricator to give me a few hours use of their cnc > machine, knowing that they were extremely busy. Turns out they will be tied > up for the next two years building a particular project. So looks like I > will be building a plug mold myself. Good thing I had my 3d model cut cnc > plywd rib sections every 12 inches last year and are hanging in the shop. > Tomorrow I will be building a flat work table to begin setting the stations > and starting the boat building process. > > > > David > > <2018-12-21-23-00-30.jpg> > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 22 10:36:50 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 15:36:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: References: <20181220120857.C3978831@m0117568.ppops.net> <0180B464-C0C0-477F-B665-3ED20E1A915B@yahoo.ca> <1433128988.8880521.1545434464482@mail.yahoo.com> <2E0A47C3-254B-48DB-964C-FA3F6CDF4E86@yahoo.com> <1540603960.9064087.1545491249682@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1231930254.9063706.1545493010055@mail.yahoo.com> Since drop weight release is potentially an emergency requirement I would not use anything other than a manual mechanism for it. From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 10:24 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view Jon,? i hadn't thought about those before. Would you use that drill motor for a drop weight system or stay with a manual system based on your testing? David On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 7:08 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, consider conversion of a cheap rechargeable screwdriver.? I've been experimenting with Black & Decker Li2000 which is low voltage (3.6vdc), low rpm (180), has a lot of torque, and is reversable.? At $15 they are pretty much expendable and easily replaceable.?? From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view You guys got me thinking about these solenoid's but for a different purpose. I fabricated a cable/pulley system for opening and closing my VBT flood valve as it is under the floor boards and not in a convenient location on a K-350. Do you Solenoid guys happen to know about how much pressure a plunger can exert? That might be a great way to rotate the valve 90 degrees easily.Rick? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 22 13:05:11 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 08:05:11 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: <1540603960.9064087.1545491249682@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20181220120857.C3978831@m0117568.ppops.net> <0180B464-C0C0-477F-B665-3ED20E1A915B@yahoo.ca> <1433128988.8880521.1545434464482@mail.yahoo.com> <2E0A47C3-254B-48DB-964C-FA3F6CDF4E86@yahoo.com> <1540603960.9064087.1545491249682@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Alan and Jon The screwdriver idea I assume would drive a piece of all thread like a worm drive to open and close the valve? In principle i think that would have enough torque to do the job but am concerned that the valve would open and close very slowly which I don't think would work for this application. What would be perfect would be a simple hydraulic ram with a 4" to 6" throw but then I would have to have all the stuff that comes along with having a hydraulic system, motor, resivore etc which I would prefer not to have to do to just operate one ram. Hank, aren't you using electric rams for your arm? can you recommend an electric "preferably 12 volt" that would work? Rick On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 5:08 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, consider conversion of a cheap rechargeable screwdriver. I've been > experimenting with Black & Decker Li2000 which is low voltage (3.6vdc), low > rpm (180), has a lot of torque, and is reversable. At $15 they are pretty > much expendable and easily replaceable. > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, December 21, 2018 11:17 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view > > You guys got me thinking about these solenoid's but for a different > purpose. I fabricated a cable/pulley system for opening and closing my VBT > flood valve as it is under the floor boards and not in a convenient > location on a K-350. Do you Solenoid guys happen to know about how much > pressure a plunger can exert? That might be a great way to rotate the valve > 90 degrees easily. > Rick > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 22 13:06:57 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 07:06:57 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: <1750194430.9079364.1545492013442@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20181220120857.C3978831@m0117568.ppops.net> <0180B464-C0C0-477F-B665-3ED20E1A915B@yahoo.ca> <1433128988.8880521.1545434464482@mail.yahoo.com> <2E0A47C3-254B-48DB-964C-FA3F6CDF4E86@yahoo.com> <1750194430.9079364.1545492013442@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jon, my ballast valve will pull down & open against spring pressure. So they have spring pressure plus air pressure from the ballast floatation keeping them closed. If one failed you couldn't dive unless you got a diver to force it open. No there wouldn't be anything off the shelf in the way of a solenoid that would work. But they are as simple as you can get, just insulated wire wrapped around an iron or metal tube with an iron plunger inside. A matter of coating everything in marine epoxy. You can make it as powerful as you want, but they draw a lot of amps. I like the drill idea. Easy to wire it so you can reverse it remotely. I am planning to use "Blue Robotics" open underwater motors for a few applications. Alan > On 23/12/2018, at 4:20 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > > I investigated the solenoid route as well and didn't find a lot of choices that I thought would work well. I am looking at electric motor instead. The biggest issue with electric is the possibility of the valve being left in open position due to motor burnout or some other electric failure. > > Jon > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 8:56 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view > > Jon, > I have bought a couple of solenoids 48V & 24V (not solenoid valves) that I > intend to experiment with. The idea being that I coat the wiring, housing & > plunger in resin & use it to directly actuate the ballast valve. > I bought the two below to get a rough idea of what gauge wire to use, how > large, what size plunger etc. > There is a limit as to how long you can operate them for due to heat, but a > ballast valve isn't open for long. > Alan > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 22 13:50:12 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 07:50:12 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: References: <20181220120857.C3978831@m0117568.ppops.net> <0180B464-C0C0-477F-B665-3ED20E1A915B@yahoo.ca> <1433128988.8880521.1545434464482@mail.yahoo.com> <2E0A47C3-254B-48DB-964C-FA3F6CDF4E86@yahoo.com> <1540603960.9064087.1545491249682@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <50B9F385-8893-428B-BD60-55C001923436@yahoo.com> Rick, what about using a pneumatic piston. You could have solenoid valves operating it if you want to operate it at the press of a button. If you went with a linear actuator you may have trouble getting the stroke length right to close the valve. Also pneumatics would be a lot quicker. In choosing a linear actuator you will need to look at the stroke length, force & speed. So can get a bit complicated. Alan > On 23/12/2018, at 7:05 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks Alan and Jon > The screwdriver idea I assume would drive a piece of all thread like a worm drive to open and close the valve? In principle i think that would have enough torque to do the job but am concerned that the valve would open and close very slowly which I don't think would work for this application. What would be perfect would be a simple hydraulic ram with a 4" to 6" throw but then I would have to have all the stuff that comes along with having a hydraulic system, motor, resivore etc which I would prefer not to have to do to just operate one ram. > Hank, aren't you using electric rams for your arm? can you recommend an electric "preferably 12 volt" that would work? > Rick > > > >> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 5:08 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Rick, consider conversion of a cheap rechargeable screwdriver. I've been experimenting with Black & Decker Li2000 which is low voltage (3.6vdc), low rpm (180), has a lot of torque, and is reversable. At $15 they are pretty much expendable and easily replaceable. >> >> >> From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 11:17 PM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view >> >> You guys got me thinking about these solenoid's but for a different purpose. I fabricated a cable/pulley system for opening and closing my VBT flood valve as it is under the floor boards and not in a convenient location on a K-350. Do you Solenoid guys happen to know about how much pressure a plunger can exert? That might be a great way to rotate the valve 90 degrees easily. >> Rick >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 22 15:36:06 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 20:36:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: <50B9F385-8893-428B-BD60-55C001923436@yahoo.com> References: <20181220120857.C3978831@m0117568.ppops.net> <0180B464-C0C0-477F-B665-3ED20E1A915B@yahoo.ca> <1433128988.8880521.1545434464482@mail.yahoo.com> <2E0A47C3-254B-48DB-964C-FA3F6CDF4E86@yahoo.com> <1540603960.9064087.1545491249682@mail.yahoo.com> <50B9F385-8893-428B-BD60-55C001923436@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1970545176.1721344.1545510966185@mail.yahoo.com> Okay, I am guilty of over thinking. ?I just pressure tested one of my new MBT valves to 2000 psi and it is undamaged. ?I put a plug in the bottom port trapping a small amount of air. ?The piston seal stood up to the pressure as did the cylinder wall. ?That makes my valves even simpler - no compensation needed.Gamma will be getting a set of these valves as well.?Hank On Saturday, December 22, 2018, 11:50:36 AM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick,what about using a pneumatic piston. You could have solenoid valves operating?it if you want to operate it at the press of a button.If you went with a linear actuator you may have trouble getting the stroke lengthright to close the valve. Also pneumatics would be a lot quicker. In choosinga linear actuator you will need to look at the stroke length, force & speed. Socan get a bit complicated.?Alan On 23/12/2018, at 7:05 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Alan and JonThe screwdriver idea I assume would drive a piece of all thread like a worm drive to open and close the valve? In principle i think that would have enough torque to do the job but am concerned that the valve would open and close very slowly which I don't think would work for this application. What would be perfect would be a simple hydraulic ram with a 4" to 6" throw but then I would have to have all the stuff that comes along with having a hydraulic system, motor, resivore etc which I would prefer not to have to do to just operate one ram.?Hank, aren't you using electric rams for your arm?? can you recommend an electric "preferably 12 volt" that would work?Rick? On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 5:08 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, consider conversion of a cheap rechargeable screwdriver.? I've been experimenting with Black & Decker Li2000 which is low voltage (3.6vdc), low rpm (180), has a lot of torque, and is reversable.? At $15 they are pretty much expendable and easily replaceable.?? From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view You guys got me thinking about these solenoid's but for a different purpose. I fabricated a cable/pulley system for opening and closing my VBT flood valve as it is under the floor boards and not in a convenient location on a K-350. Do you Solenoid guys happen to know about how much pressure a plunger can exert? That might be a great way to rotate the valve 90 degrees easily.Rick? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 22 16:18:32 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:18:32 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaLab video trailer spring 2019 Message-ID: https://www.pbs.org/video/sealab-trailer-w8fomw/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 22 19:02:25 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 16:02:25 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Design Edge/ Plasma Cam Message-ID: <20181222160225.C39776DD@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Part1.DXF Type: application/octet-stream Size: 84653 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 22 20:21:13 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 17:21:13 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Design Edge/ Plasma Cam Message-ID: <1040252797.6286.1545528073901@wamui-napoleon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 22 20:27:58 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 17:27:58 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Design Edge/ Plasma Cam Message-ID: <20181222172758.C39710AD@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 22 20:28:54 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 17:28:54 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Design Edge/ Plasma Cam Message-ID: <20181222172854.C39710AB@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 22 20:49:47 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 17:49:47 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Design Edge/ Plasma Cam Message-ID: <1446920453.4503.1545529787637@wamui-merida.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 22 22:41:08 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 19:41:08 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Design Edge/ CamPlasmakl Message-ID: Hi Brian, I know that when I tried to open the DXF file, I had to use my most recent version of acad to see it. See if your guy can do a saveas in an older release of cad. Your guy should be able to see it then. David On Dec 22, 2018 4:03 PM, "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: HI All, Has anyone had any experience with Design Edge and or Plasma Cam ? I had someone do a drawing for me in Auto cad , we sent the dxf file to the aluminum guy to cut out but he could not see the drawing. Any ideas? Maybe something to do with which plane it was drawn in? So that the plasma cutter sees the correct cuts? Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 23 06:55:12 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 11:55:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view In-Reply-To: References: <20181220120857.C3978831@m0117568.ppops.net> <0180B464-C0C0-477F-B665-3ED20E1A915B@yahoo.ca> <1433128988.8880521.1545434464482@mail.yahoo.com> <2E0A47C3-254B-48DB-964C-FA3F6CDF4E86@yahoo.com> <1540603960.9064087.1545491249682@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2044481510.7853489.1545566112730@mail.yahoo.com> Rick, true, this idea is for applications that require a lot of torque rather than speed.? Particularly useful for applications that do not require a large range of motion.? Speed can be adjusted somewhat via threaded rod pitch or by using a drill/screwdriver that has a faster RPM. From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view Thanks Alan and JonThe screwdriver idea I assume would drive a piece of all thread like a worm drive to open and close the valve? In principle i think that would have enough torque to do the job but am concerned that the valve would open and close very slowly which I don't think would work for this application. What would be perfect would be a simple hydraulic ram with a 4" to 6" throw but then I would have to have all the stuff that comes along with having a hydraulic system, motor, resivore etc which I would prefer not to have to do to just operate one ram.?Hank, aren't you using electric rams for your arm?? can you recommend an electric "preferably 12 volt" that would work?Rick? On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 5:08 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, consider conversion of a cheap rechargeable screwdriver.? I've been experimenting with Black & Decker Li2000 which is low voltage (3.6vdc), low rpm (180), has a lot of torque, and is reversable.? At $15 they are pretty much expendable and easily replaceable.?? From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Closed view You guys got me thinking about these solenoid's but for a different purpose. I fabricated a cable/pulley system for opening and closing my VBT flood valve as it is under the floor boards and not in a convenient location on a K-350. Do you Solenoid guys happen to know about how much pressure a plunger can exert? That might be a great way to rotate the valve 90 degrees easily.Rick? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 25 02:58:04 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2018 23:58:04 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Merry Christmas Message-ID: Merry Chtistmas and Happy New Year from Wyvonne and I -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image4694274197403675149.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 475828 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 25 05:56:22 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2018 23:56:22 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Merry Christmas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <30AFE4DD-792A-4E6B-AADF-B3BCAFCF1B53@yahoo.com> Very good, Wyvonne's looking hot in that Santa costume! Have a great Christmas everyone. Only 6 minutes & it's finished here in NZ. Alan > On 25/12/2018, at 8:58 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Merry Chtistmas and Happy New Year from Wyvonne and I > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 25 15:38:11 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2018 10:38:11 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Merry Christmas In-Reply-To: <30AFE4DD-792A-4E6B-AADF-B3BCAFCF1B53@yahoo.com> References: <30AFE4DD-792A-4E6B-AADF-B3BCAFCF1B53@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Great Idea for a Christmas card! Not many people can say that they can deliver presents under water! Merry Christmas from Hawaii Rick On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 12:57 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Very good, > Wyvonne's looking hot in that Santa costume! > Have a great Christmas everyone. Only 6 minutes & it's finished here in NZ. > Alan > > > > On 25/12/2018, at 8:58 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Merry Chtistmas and Happy New Year from Wyvonne and I > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 25 16:07:30 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2018 13:07:30 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Merry Christmas Message-ID: <20181225130730.C3971497@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 25 16:16:18 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (glen brown via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2018 23:16:18 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Merry Christmas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Merry Christmas and prosperous new year to all. Regards Glen On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 10:08 David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > Merry Chtistmas and Happy New Year from Wyvonne and I > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 25 17:59:35 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2018 17:59:35 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Merry Christmas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Happy Christmas David and Wyvonne! I think, though, there's only a limited audience that would know what they're looking at in that photo! Best, Alec On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 3:08 AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Merry Chtistmas and Happy New Year from Wyvonne and I > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 25 21:12:45 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2018 18:12:45 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ethanol removal Message-ID: <20181225181245.C3977B4F@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 27 03:04:03 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2018 00:04:03 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Merry Christmas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Alec, that is probably true with the exception that over the last few years I have been sending out Christmas cards that I drew of the SeaQuestor under water, and now this year is the real thing. On Tue, Dec 25, 2018, 3:00 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Happy Christmas David and Wyvonne! I think, though, there's only a limited > audience that would know what they're looking at in that photo! > > Best, > Alec > > On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 3:08 AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Merry Chtistmas and Happy New Year from Wyvonne and I >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SeaQuestor E-card Christmas 2012.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 564317 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 27 18:09:35 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2018 23:09:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] plug connector References: <2117978277.3269051.1545952175540.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2117978277.3269051.1545952175540@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All, I have to make a 50 amp connector with two pins that will pull apart when the occupant sphere section separates (jettisons) ?I use flat trailer plug connectors for all the small stuff. ?I grease them up with silicone grease and it has worked perfectly on Gamma.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 27 18:45:15 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2018 12:45:15 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] plug connector In-Reply-To: <2117978277.3269051.1545952175540@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2117978277.3269051.1545952175540.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2117978277.3269051.1545952175540@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <492E0750-988C-424D-9D94-DD5D45FD13A0@yahoo.com> Hi Hank, not quite following what you are doing. How come only one wire needs to disconnect? Do you mean the occupancy sphere or the escape pod? There are pull apart connectors that have high amps running through them that they use in the RC World. If you google 5 or 6mm gold connectors you are bound to find them. I wonder if it would be better to connect them, & coat them in some sort of grease & shrink tube over the connection. This would waterproof them, stop stray current & still leave them able to pull apart if there is enough force to tear the shrink tubing apart. Alan > On 28/12/2018, at 12:09 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, I have to make a 50 amp connector with two pins that will pull apart when the occupant sphere section separates (jettisons) I use flat trailer plug connectors for all the small stuff. I grease them up with silicone grease and it has worked perfectly on Gamma. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 27 19:11:43 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2018 00:11:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] plug connector In-Reply-To: <492E0750-988C-424D-9D94-DD5D45FD13A0@yahoo.com> References: <2117978277.3269051.1545952175540.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2117978277.3269051.1545952175540@mail.yahoo.com> <492E0750-988C-424D-9D94-DD5D45FD13A0@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1199840079.3288943.1545955903841@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,?This is for E3000. ?I am more of a make it then buy it kinda guy. ?I will look at those RC plugs for ideas.Thanks for the infoHank On Thursday, December 27, 2018, 4:45:39 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank,not quite following what you are doing.How come only one wire needs to disconnect?Do you mean the occupancy sphere or the escape pod?There are pull apart connectors that have high amps running through themthat they use in the RC World. If you google 5 or 6mm gold connectors you?are bound to find them.?I wonder if it would be better to connect them, & coat them in some sort ofgrease & shrink tube over the connection. This would waterproof them,?stop stray current & still leave them able to pull apart if there is enough force?to tear the shrink tubing apart.Alan On 28/12/2018, at 12:09 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, I have to make a 50 amp connector with two pins that will pull apart when the occupant sphere section separates (jettisons) ?I use flat trailer plug connectors for all the small stuff. ?I grease them up with silicone grease and it has worked perfectly on Gamma.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 27 19:22:50 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2018 16:22:50 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] plug connector Message-ID: <20181227162250.C396C79B@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 27 19:45:10 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2018 19:45:10 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] plug connector In-Reply-To: <20181227162250.C396C79B@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20181227162250.C396C79B@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi Hank, Subconn has a 50 amp connector in which the two halves are just a pressure fit unless an optional threaded sleeve is used. I think it would certainly pull apart if you left the sleeve off. Check the ?power series? product family on their website: https://www.macartney.com/what-we-offer/systems-and-products/connectors/subconn/subconn-power-series/ Best, Alec Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 27, 2018, at 7:22 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Are the wires run through epoxy then ? > > Brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] plug connector > Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2018 00:11:43 +0000 (UTC) > > Alan, > This is for E3000. I am more of a make it then buy it kinda guy. I will look at those RC plugs for ideas. > Thanks for the info > Hank > > On Thursday, December 27, 2018, 4:45:39 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > not quite following what you are doing. > How come only one wire needs to disconnect? > Do you mean the occupancy sphere or the escape pod? > There are pull apart connectors that have high amps running through them > that they use in the RC World. If you google 5 or 6mm gold connectors you > are bound to find them. > I wonder if it would be better to connect them, & coat them in some sort of > grease & shrink tube over the connection. This would waterproof them, > stop stray current & still leave them able to pull apart if there is enough force > to tear the shrink tubing apart. > Alan > > > On 28/12/2018, at 12:09 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, I have to make a 50 amp connector with two pins that will pull apart when the occupant sphere section separates (jettisons) I use flat trailer plug connectors for all the small stuff. I grease them up with silicone grease and it has worked perfectly on Gamma. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 27 20:41:58 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2018 01:41:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] plug connector In-Reply-To: References: <20181227162250.C396C79B@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1990959754.3322963.1545961318594@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,Thanks, perfect!Hank On Thursday, December 27, 2018, 5:45:31 PM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, Subconn has a 50 amp connector in which the two halves are just a pressure fit unless an optional threaded sleeve is used. I think it would certainly pull apart if you left the sleeve off. Check the ?power series? product family on their website: https://www.macartney.com/what-we-offer/systems-and-products/connectors/subconn/subconn-power-series/ Best,Alec Sent from my iPhone On Dec 27, 2018, at 7:22 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Are the wires run through epoxy then ? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] plug connector Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2018 00:11:43 +0000 (UTC) Alan,?This is for E3000. ?I am more of a make it then buy it kinda guy. ?I will look at those RC plugs for ideas.Thanks for the infoHank On Thursday, December 27, 2018, 4:45:39 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank,not quite following what you are doing.How come only one wire needs to disconnect?Do you mean the occupancy sphere or the escape pod?There are pull apart connectors that have high amps running through themthat they use in the RC World. If you google 5 or 6mm gold connectors you?are bound to find them.?I wonder if it would be better to connect them, & coat them in some sort ofgrease & shrink tube over the connection. This would waterproof them,?stop stray current & still leave them able to pull apart if there is enough force?to tear the shrink tubing apart.Alan On 28/12/2018, at 12:09 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, I have to make a 50 amp connector with two pins that will pull apart when the occupant sphere section separates (jettisons) ?I use flat trailer plug connectors for all the small stuff. ?I grease them up with silicone grease and it has worked perfectly on Gamma.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 27 21:20:04 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2018 18:20:04 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <20181227182004.C396B7CC@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 28 00:01:37 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2018 18:01:37 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vesc motor temperature display Message-ID: <8816D6CD-287D-4710-B7C9-BB50B28F7A1C@yahoo.com> Steve, if you are listening in. I have pool tested my 6374 thruster & have it nearly ready for testing on the back of an inflatable. There are 2 android apps that I downloaded, "esc monitor" & "Vesc monitor, neither display motor temperature which is the main condition I want to see. The "Vesc tool" app for androids requires an expensive dongle that will take ages to get here. Any ideas on the easiest way to monitor my motor temperature? I have hall sensors, so power from the Vesc is supplying the temperature & hall sensors. Have a couple of arduinos & a raspberry pi sitting around if they can be used. Dead keen to have a holiday out on the water towing a lure around but stuck at home till I sought this out. Cheers Alan From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 28 05:18:34 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2018 10:18:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Threaded Inserts References: <587795054.3407872.1545992314859.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <587795054.3407872.1545992314859@mail.yahoo.com> Hi,is anyone using threaded inserts in fiberglass to attach components.I was looking at attaching my ballast valves & lights as per attached drawingwith the flanged end of threaded inserts fitted in to holes drilled in my ballasttank, & then filled in with epoxy around them.Most of the images I have see in searches show the flange at the top, but I thought it wouldbe stronger with the flange embedded. There are other versions of the threadedinsert that have an additional large thread on the outside. I thought it would be easy to locate the inserts?in relation to the holes in the top ballastplate by screwing them?up to the plate with?the retaining bolts?& pushing them downin to slightly oversized holes in the fiberglass that are half filled with epoxy.when?the epoxy sets just unscrew the bolts & fill in the rest of the way round the inserts.Alan ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ballast valve inserts.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 244631 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 28 07:02:19 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2018 12:02:19 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20181227182004.C396B7CC@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20181227182004.C396B7CC@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: Thats ancient that program! ive met the bloke quite a few times. On Fri, 28 Dec 2018 at 02:21, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, > If anybody would like to see where James, of > GuernseySubmarine's home base is just watch this old detective series that > was filmed there ! The series was filmed on Jersey, the neighboring > island. The islands have a very rich history ! There are a lot of ocean > related shots. > > > https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4jirtm > > > Brian Cox > > KK6IRC > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 28 10:33:28 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2018 07:33:28 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <20181228073328.C3968B84@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 28 23:00:08 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:00:08 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Threaded Inserts In-Reply-To: <587795054.3407872.1545992314859@mail.yahoo.com> References: <587795054.3407872.1545992314859.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <587795054.3407872.1545992314859@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Are these the circular type as in the outside shape? If so I would square off the flange end to prevent them becoming loose in the epoxy bedding resin, I have had a few do this due to over tightening of the bolts and if they need to be replaced they are not easy to remove... I haven't had much to do with the type you mention with thread on the outside but would think it could only help prevent such problems. Also you would get a much better adhesion to the alloy if you used a methacrylate type adhesive such as Plexus, the alloy is etched using a primer (a plexus product) to ensure maximum adhesion, a little more expensive than epoxy but worth it for the peace of mind... Mike On Fri, 28 Dec 2018, 8:22 p.m. Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > Hi, > is anyone using threaded inserts in fiberglass to attach components. > I was looking at attaching my ballast valves & lights as per attached > drawing > with the flanged end of threaded inserts fitted in to holes drilled in my > ballast > tank, & then filled in with epoxy around them. > Most of the images I have see in searches show the flange at the top, but > I thought it would > be stronger with the flange embedded. There are other versions of the > threaded > insert that have an additional large thread on the outside. > I thought it would be easy to locate the inserts in relation to the holes > in the top ballast > plate by screwing them up to the plate with the retaining bolts & pushing > them down > in to slightly oversized holes in the fiberglass that are half filled with > epoxy. > when the epoxy sets just unscrew the bolts & fill in the rest of the way > round the > inserts. > Alan > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 29 01:26:45 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2018 19:26:45 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Threaded Inserts In-Reply-To: References: <587795054.3407872.1545992314859.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <587795054.3407872.1545992314859@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <66CD2775-9621-4E23-B308-F8DF70A65972@yahoo.com> Thanks Mike, yes I was looking at the round type. Great suggestion about squaring off the flange, hadn't thought about them spinning! The type with the large thread on the outside, I have seen in kitset furniture. I am intending to source a 316 threaded insert with flange & now that you've got me thinking, it might pay to grind in to them a bit first to help with the adhesion. What application have you been using them in Mike? Cheers Alan > On 29/12/2018, at 5:00 PM, Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Are these the circular type as in the outside shape? If so I would square off the flange end to prevent them becoming loose in the epoxy bedding resin, I have had a few do this due to over tightening of the bolts and if they need to be replaced they are not easy to remove... I haven't had much to do with the type you mention with thread on the outside but would think it could only help prevent such problems. > > Also you would get a much better adhesion to the alloy if you used a methacrylate type adhesive such as Plexus, the alloy is etched using a primer (a plexus product) to ensure maximum adhesion, a little more expensive than epoxy but worth it for the peace of mind... > > Mike > >> On Fri, 28 Dec 2018, 8:22 p.m. Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > Hi, >> is anyone using threaded inserts in fiberglass to attach components. >> I was looking at attaching my ballast valves & lights as per attached drawing >> with the flanged end of threaded inserts fitted in to holes drilled in my ballast >> tank, & then filled in with epoxy around them. >> Most of the images I have see in searches show the flange at the top, but I thought it would >> be stronger with the flange embedded. There are other versions of the threaded >> insert that have an additional large thread on the outside. >> I thought it would be easy to locate the inserts in relation to the holes in the top ballast >> plate by screwing them up to the plate with the retaining bolts & pushing them down >> in to slightly oversized holes in the fiberglass that are half filled with epoxy. >> when the epoxy sets just unscrew the bolts & fill in the rest of the way round the >> inserts. >> Alan >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 29 02:04:06 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:04:06 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Threaded Inserts In-Reply-To: <66CD2775-9621-4E23-B308-F8DF70A65972@yahoo.com> References: <587795054.3407872.1545992314859.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <587795054.3407872.1545992314859@mail.yahoo.com> <66CD2775-9621-4E23-B308-F8DF70A65972@yahoo.com> Message-ID: We used them in composite race car wheel rims, the type that has a bolt on bead and it was in that application we discovered the tendency for them to give way and spin, until we squared them off... Have also used them on water tank inspection ports in the marine industry. Mike. On Sat, 29 Dec 2018, 4:27 p.m. Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > Thanks Mike, > yes I was looking at the round type. > Great suggestion about squaring off the flange, hadn't thought about > them spinning! > The type with the large thread on the outside, I have seen in kitset > furniture. > I am intending to source a 316 threaded insert with flange & now that > you've got me thinking, it might pay to grind in to them a bit first to > help with the adhesion. > What application have you been using them in Mike? > Cheers Alan > > On 29/12/2018, at 5:00 PM, Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Are these the circular type as in the outside shape? If so I would square > off the flange end to prevent them becoming loose in the epoxy bedding > resin, I have had a few do this due to over tightening of the bolts and if > they need to be replaced they are not easy to remove... I haven't had much > to do with the type you mention with thread on the outside but would think > it could only help prevent such problems. > > Also you would get a much better adhesion to the alloy if you used a > methacrylate type adhesive such as Plexus, the alloy is etched using a > primer (a plexus product) to ensure maximum adhesion, a little more > expensive than epoxy but worth it for the peace of mind... > > Mike > > On Fri, 28 Dec 2018, 8:22 p.m. Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >> Hi, >> is anyone using threaded inserts in fiberglass to attach components. >> I was looking at attaching my ballast valves & lights as per attached >> drawing >> with the flanged end of threaded inserts fitted in to holes drilled in my >> ballast >> tank, & then filled in with epoxy around them. >> Most of the images I have see in searches show the flange at the top, but >> I thought it would >> be stronger with the flange embedded. There are other versions of the >> threaded >> insert that have an additional large thread on the outside. >> I thought it would be easy to locate the inserts in relation to the holes >> in the top ballast >> plate by screwing them up to the plate with the retaining bolts & pushing >> them down >> in to slightly oversized holes in the fiberglass that are half filled >> with epoxy. >> when the epoxy sets just unscrew the bolts & fill in the rest of the way >> round the >> inserts. >> Alan >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 29 04:21:57 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2018 09:21:57 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20181228073328.C3968B84@m0117460.ppops.net> References: <20181228073328.C3968B84@m0117460.ppops.net> Message-ID: Loads of ramps. Most of them shallow. Ok for a small boat, but sub on a trailer more difficult...... On Friday, 28 December 2018, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, I've noticed that, at least on Jersey, there are a number of > entry ramps to the ocean , is that the same on Guernsey ? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2018 12:02:19 +0000 > > Thats ancient that program! ive met the bloke quite a few times. > > On Fri, 28 Dec 2018 at 02:21, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi All, > If anybody would like to see where James, of > GuernseySubmarine's home base is just watch this old detective series that > was filmed there ! The series was filmed on Jersey, the neighboring > island. The islands have a very rich history ! There are a lot of ocean > related shots. > > > https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4jirtm > > > Brian Cox > > KK6IRC > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 29 06:44:04 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2018 00:44:04 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Threaded Inserts In-Reply-To: References: <587795054.3407872.1545992314859.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <587795054.3407872.1545992314859@mail.yahoo.com> <66CD2775-9621-4E23-B308-F8DF70A65972@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <76FFAEAE-ED11-4AA7-8F69-E48BBA8B36C6@yahoo.com> Thanks Mike, they should work well for me. Alan > On 29/12/2018, at 8:04 PM, Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > We used them in composite race car wheel rims, the type that has a bolt on bead and it was in that application we discovered the tendency for them to give way and spin, until we squared them off... Have also used them on water tank inspection ports in the marine industry. > > Mike. > >> On Sat, 29 Dec 2018, 4:27 p.m. Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Thanks Mike, >> yes I was looking at the round type. >> Great suggestion about squaring off the flange, hadn't thought about >> them spinning! >> The type with the large thread on the outside, I have seen in kitset >> furniture. >> I am intending to source a 316 threaded insert with flange & now that >> you've got me thinking, it might pay to grind in to them a bit first to >> help with the adhesion. >> What application have you been using them in Mike? >> Cheers Alan >> >>> On 29/12/2018, at 5:00 PM, Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Are these the circular type as in the outside shape? If so I would square off the flange end to prevent them becoming loose in the epoxy bedding resin, I have had a few do this due to over tightening of the bolts and if they need to be replaced they are not easy to remove... I haven't had much to do with the type you mention with thread on the outside but would think it could only help prevent such problems. >>> >>> Also you would get a much better adhesion to the alloy if you used a methacrylate type adhesive such as Plexus, the alloy is etched using a primer (a plexus product) to ensure maximum adhesion, a little more expensive than epoxy but worth it for the peace of mind... >>> >>> Mike >>> >>>> On Fri, 28 Dec 2018, 8:22 p.m. Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >>> Hi, >>>> is anyone using threaded inserts in fiberglass to attach components. >>>> I was looking at attaching my ballast valves & lights as per attached drawing >>>> with the flanged end of threaded inserts fitted in to holes drilled in my ballast >>>> tank, & then filled in with epoxy around them. >>>> Most of the images I have see in searches show the flange at the top, but I thought it would >>>> be stronger with the flange embedded. There are other versions of the threaded >>>> insert that have an additional large thread on the outside. >>>> I thought it would be easy to locate the inserts in relation to the holes in the top ballast >>>> plate by screwing them up to the plate with the retaining bolts & pushing them down >>>> in to slightly oversized holes in the fiberglass that are half filled with epoxy. >>>> when the epoxy sets just unscrew the bolts & fill in the rest of the way round the >>>> inserts. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 30 10:37:40 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2018 16:37:40 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster make Message-ID: <020401d4a055$99979720$ccc6c560$@airesearch.nl> Hi, Does anyone know the make (and so the specs) of this thruster? It came from a Mantis submersible. -Probably British of US made -geared -21 KG / 42LBS weight -oilcompensated -Alu housing - 30 VDC If someone interested; there are evt. 2 available. Met vriendelijke groet/ with best regards, Emile van Essen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_6601.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 162351 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 30 16:58:18 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2018 16:58:18 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vesc motor temperature display In-Reply-To: <8816D6CD-287D-4710-B7C9-BB50B28F7A1C@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20181230215818.0Z2RF.160912.root@cdptpa-web26> Alan, not sure if I am the Steve you were pinging, but to me the first question would be where/how are you wanting to measure/monitor the temperature? Some of the more sophisticated thrusters have overtemp sensors built in. Understanding the sensor type (thermocouple, RTD etc.) and how it is installed will lead to ways of monitoring/reading it Thanks, Steve ---- Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Steve, > if you are listening in. > I have pool tested my 6374 thruster & have it nearly ready for testing > on the back of an inflatable. > There are 2 android apps that I downloaded, "esc monitor" & "Vesc monitor, > neither display motor temperature which is the main condition I want to see. > The "Vesc tool" app for androids requires an expensive dongle that will take > ages to get here. > Any ideas on the easiest way to monitor my motor temperature? > I have hall sensors, so power from the Vesc is supplying the temperature > & hall sensors. Have a couple of arduinos & a raspberry pi sitting around > if they can be used. > Dead keen to have a holiday out on the water towing a lure around but > stuck at home till I sought this out. > Cheers Alan > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 31 03:26:54 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 21:26:54 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vesc motor temperature display In-Reply-To: <20181230215818.0Z2RF.160912.root@cdptpa-web26> References: <20181230215818.0Z2RF.160912.root@cdptpa-web26> Message-ID: <3991B506-D275-4A5A-85A1-D654EB1AFF0D@yahoo.com> Hi Steve, thanks but no it was Aussie Steve, I should have been more specific. He is familiar with my motor controller. The temperature sensor is powered from the Vesc motor controller & the signal returns to the Vesc. Also the Vesc has the over-temperature cut back that you mentioned. I don't want to disable this by running the temperature sensor from a different power source. I can get the temperature reading on my laptop, but don't want to take that out in an inflatable. Cheers Alan > On 31/12/2018, at 10:58 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, not sure if I am the Steve you were pinging, but to me the first question would be where/how are you wanting to measure/monitor the temperature? > Some of the more sophisticated thrusters have overtemp sensors built in. Understanding the sensor type (thermocouple, RTD etc.) and how it is installed will lead to ways of monitoring/reading it > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Steve, >> if you are listening in. >> I have pool tested my 6374 thruster & have it nearly ready for testing >> on the back of an inflatable. >> There are 2 android apps that I downloaded, "esc monitor" & "Vesc monitor, >> neither display motor temperature which is the main condition I want to see. >> The "Vesc tool" app for androids requires an expensive dongle that will take >> ages to get here. >> Any ideas on the easiest way to monitor my motor temperature? >> I have hall sensors, so power from the Vesc is supplying the temperature >> & hall sensors. Have a couple of arduinos & a raspberry pi sitting around >> if they can be used. >> Dead keen to have a holiday out on the water towing a lure around but >> stuck at home till I sought this out. >> Cheers Alan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 31 08:15:56 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 13:15:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vesc motor temperature display In-Reply-To: <3991B506-D275-4A5A-85A1-D654EB1AFF0D@yahoo.com> References: <20181230215818.0Z2RF.160912.root@cdptpa-web26> <3991B506-D275-4A5A-85A1-D654EB1AFF0D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1914022424.12168529.1546262156219@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, I'm not familiar with the motor.? What is the protocol the temperature output is using, analog, I2C, SPI, serial?? Arduino can handle all of those, just output to either 7-segment LED or a 16 character LCD. LCD Shield Kit w/ 16x2 Character Display - Only 2 pins used! Adafruit 0.56" 4-Digit 7-Segment Display w/I2C Backpack - Green | | | | | | | | | | | Adafruit 0.56" 4-Digit 7-Segment Display w/I2C Backpack - Green What's better than a single LED? Lots of LEDs! A fun way to make a small display is to use an 8x8 matrix or ... | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | LCD Shield Kit w/ 16x2 Character Display - Only 2 pins used! This new Adafruit shield makes it easy to use a 16x2 Character LCD. We really like the Blue & White 16x2 LCD... | | | | From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, December 31, 2018 3:36 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vesc motor temperature display Hi Steve, thanks but no it was Aussie Steve, I should have been more specific. He is familiar with my motor controller. The temperature sensor is powered from the Vesc motor controller & the signal returns to the Vesc. Also the Vesc has the over-temperature cut back that you mentioned. I don't want to disable this by running the temperature sensor from a different power source. I can get the temperature reading on my laptop, but don't want to take that out in an inflatable. Cheers Alan > On 31/12/2018, at 10:58 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, not sure if I am the Steve you were pinging, but to me the first question would be where/how are you wanting to measure/monitor the temperature? > Some of the more sophisticated thrusters have overtemp sensors built in. Understanding the sensor type (thermocouple, RTD etc.) and how it is installed will lead to ways of monitoring/reading it > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Steve, >> if you are listening in. >> I have pool tested my 6374 thruster & have it nearly ready for testing >> on the back of an inflatable. >> There are 2 android apps that I downloaded, "esc monitor" & "Vesc monitor, >> neither display motor temperature which is the main condition I want to see. >> The "Vesc tool" app for androids requires an expensive dongle that will take >> ages to get here. >> Any ideas on the easiest way to monitor my motor temperature? >> I have hall sensors, so power from the Vesc is supplying the temperature >> & hall sensors. Have a couple of arduinos & a raspberry pi sitting around >> if they can be used. >> Dead keen to have a holiday out on the water towing a lure around but >> stuck at home till I sought this out. >> Cheers Alan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 31 15:56:37 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 15:56:37 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vesc motor temperature display In-Reply-To: <3991B506-D275-4A5A-85A1-D654EB1AFF0D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20181231205637.2R693.165805.root@cdptpa-web26> Thanks for the clarification. : ) It did cause me to Google Vesc and those apps. Interesting and timely as I am in the process of selecting controllers myself. Thanks, Steve ---- Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Steve, > thanks but no it was Aussie Steve, I should have been more specific. > He is familiar with my motor controller. > The temperature sensor is powered from the Vesc motor controller > & the signal returns to the Vesc. Also the Vesc has the over-temperature > cut back that you mentioned. I don't want to disable this by running > the temperature sensor from a different power source. > I can get the temperature reading on my laptop, but don't want to take > that out in an inflatable. > Cheers Alan > > > > On 31/12/2018, at 10:58 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Alan, not sure if I am the Steve you were pinging, but to me the first question would be where/how are you wanting to measure/monitor the temperature? > > Some of the more sophisticated thrusters have overtemp sensors built in. Understanding the sensor type (thermocouple, RTD etc.) and how it is installed will lead to ways of monitoring/reading it > > > > Thanks, > > Steve > > > > ---- Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Steve, > >> if you are listening in. > >> I have pool tested my 6374 thruster & have it nearly ready for testing > >> on the back of an inflatable. > >> There are 2 android apps that I downloaded, "esc monitor" & "Vesc monitor, > >> neither display motor temperature which is the main condition I want to see. > >> The "Vesc tool" app for androids requires an expensive dongle that will take > >> ages to get here. > >> Any ideas on the easiest way to monitor my motor temperature? > >> I have hall sensors, so power from the Vesc is supplying the temperature > >> & hall sensors. Have a couple of arduinos & a raspberry pi sitting around > >> if they can be used. > >> Dead keen to have a holiday out on the water towing a lure around but > >> stuck at home till I sought this out. > >> Cheers Alan > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 31 16:28:22 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2019 10:28:22 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vesc motor temperature display In-Reply-To: <20181231205637.2R693.165805.root@cdptpa-web26> References: <20181231205637.2R693.165805.root@cdptpa-web26> Message-ID: <21C58797-196F-4106-BA03-D2EAD5BEE643@yahoo.com> Steve, there are a number of Vesc's out there. All built around the original Vesc design, but some are coming out with higher continuous Amp ratings (Maytech 100Amp being one) & in nice cases with better heat disipation. They were designed originally for the skateboard community & have had the benefit of a lot of testing & feedback World wide. Mainly designed for brushless motors but can be used with brushed motors. You can set up reverse on them. Some motor controllers advertise reversing capability but this means you program in reverse as the orientation of the motor rather than having the ability to move from forward to reverse. Good luck with your selection. Alan > On 1/01/2019, at 9:56 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks for the clarification. : ) > > It did cause me to Google Vesc and those apps. Interesting and timely as I am in the process of selecting controllers myself. > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hi Steve, >> thanks but no it was Aussie Steve, I should have been more specific. >> He is familiar with my motor controller. >> The temperature sensor is powered from the Vesc motor controller >> & the signal returns to the Vesc. Also the Vesc has the over-temperature >> cut back that you mentioned. I don't want to disable this by running >> the temperature sensor from a different power source. >> I can get the temperature reading on my laptop, but don't want to take >> that out in an inflatable. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >>> On 31/12/2018, at 10:58 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, not sure if I am the Steve you were pinging, but to me the first question would be where/how are you wanting to measure/monitor the temperature? >>> Some of the more sophisticated thrusters have overtemp sensors built in. Understanding the sensor type (thermocouple, RTD etc.) and how it is installed will lead to ways of monitoring/reading it >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Steve >>> >>> ---- Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Steve, >>>> if you are listening in. >>>> I have pool tested my 6374 thruster & have it nearly ready for testing >>>> on the back of an inflatable. >>>> There are 2 android apps that I downloaded, "esc monitor" & "Vesc monitor, >>>> neither display motor temperature which is the main condition I want to see. >>>> The "Vesc tool" app for androids requires an expensive dongle that will take >>>> ages to get here. >>>> Any ideas on the easiest way to monitor my motor temperature? >>>> I have hall sensors, so power from the Vesc is supplying the temperature >>>> & hall sensors. Have a couple of arduinos & a raspberry pi sitting around >>>> if they can be used. >>>> Dead keen to have a holiday out on the water towing a lure around but >>>> stuck at home till I sought this out. >>>> Cheers Alan >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 31 17:41:18 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2019 11:41:18 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vesc motor temperature display In-Reply-To: <1914022424.12168529.1546262156219@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20181230215818.0Z2RF.160912.root@cdptpa-web26> <3991B506-D275-4A5A-85A1-D654EB1AFF0D@yahoo.com> <1914022424.12168529.1546262156219@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jon, thanks, it is using a 10K NTC thermistor but the power to it runs through a small pcb in the motor that is also used by the hall sensors. I have sealed the wires out of the motor, so it's not a reasonable option to separate the thermistor from the pcb. And again I am needing the reading from this thermistor to go into the esc for over-temperature control. The Esc attaches to a computer via a usb connection. I am not sure what protocol is used to transfer this data. At some stage I am wanting to be able to display all this data ( motor & esc temperature, Voltage, Amp draw, rpm, run time duty cycle) on my HMI. But at the moment just looking for the motor temperature. I am on holiday at the moment & will have another determined look at this when I get back! Cheers Alan > On 1/01/2019, at 2:15 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > > I'm not familiar with the motor. What is the protocol the temperature output is using, analog, I2C, SPI, serial? Arduino can handle all of those, just output to either 7-segment LED or a 16 character LCD. > > LCD Shield Kit w/ 16x2 Character Display - Only 2 pins used! > > Adafruit 0.56" 4-Digit 7-Segment Display w/I2C Backpack - Green > > Adafruit 0.56" 4-Digit 7-Segment Display w/I2C Backpack - Green > What's better than a single LED? Lots of LEDs! A fun way to make a small display is to use an 8x8 matrix or ... > > > LCD Shield Kit w/ 16x2 Character Display - Only 2 pins used! > This new Adafruit shield makes it easy to use a 16x2 Character LCD. We really like the Blue & White 16x2 LCD... > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2018 3:36 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vesc motor temperature display > > Hi Steve, > thanks but no it was Aussie Steve, I should have been more specific. > He is familiar with my motor controller. > The temperature sensor is powered from the Vesc motor controller > & the signal returns to the Vesc. Also the Vesc has the over-temperature > cut back that you mentioned. I don't want to disable this by running > the temperature sensor from a different power source. > I can get the temperature reading on my laptop, but don't want to take > that out in an inflatable. > Cheers Alan > > > > On 31/12/2018, at 10:58 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Alan, not sure if I am the Steve you were pinging, but to me the first question would be where/how are you wanting to measure/monitor the temperature? > > Some of the more sophisticated thrusters have overtemp sensors built in. Understanding the sensor type (thermocouple, RTD etc.) and how it is installed will lead to ways of monitoring/reading it > > > > Thanks, > > Steve > > > > ---- Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Steve, > >> if you are listening in. > >> I have pool tested my 6374 thruster & have it nearly ready for testing > >> on the back of an inflatable. > >> There are 2 android apps that I downloaded, "esc monitor" & "Vesc monitor, > >> neither display motor temperature which is the main condition I want to see. > >> The "Vesc tool" app for androids requires an expensive dongle that will take > >> ages to get here. > >> Any ideas on the easiest way to monitor my motor temperature? > >> I have hall sensors, so power from the Vesc is supplying the temperature > >> & hall sensors. Have a couple of arduinos & a raspberry pi sitting around > >> if they can be used. > >> Dead keen to have a holiday out on the water towing a lure around but > >> stuck at home till I sought this out. > >> Cheers Alan > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 31 17:51:14 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 22:51:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <113449003.4559428.1546296674948@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,I have been very busy working on E3000 and have started installing the plastic body panels. ?I can now sit inside and operate the arm with lights on and camera working. ?Just waiting for a couple parts to complete thruster control. ?Hank ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: hank pronk To: hank pronk Sent: Monday, December 31, 2018, 3:44:40 PM MSTSubject: Sent from my iPhone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0259.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2136315 bytes Desc: not available URL: